From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] CENTIPEDE Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:13:20 -0500 Bruce: Aside from the marketing opportunities, which I believe are adequate, what about erection drawings, painting and lettering schematics etc.? Does our group have sufficient resources to present a package to Bachman that they can use to design a loco? I don't think designing a diesel loco chassis, like the centipede's, to run on 18" R or even 15" R, would present too many mechanical problems. After all, there are existing Bachman 8 and 10 couple steam locos that can run on 15" R. (I'm not saying that they look good doing it, they just can) The question then is: "should we, as an organization, pursue this agenda?" I believe a project like this has more merit for our group than most of the projects that have been proposed. Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce F. Smith" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 2:23 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] CENTIPEDE > > > >I would personally think that since Bachman has released a E44 electric > >model, maybe a centipede would not be out of the question. How many > >roads used the E44 and number of units compared to the centipede ? > > > >Ken Nesbitt > > Ken, > > The Botchman model is an E33, so the roads that had it are VIRGINIAN, > NORFOLK & WESTERN, NEW HAVEN, PENN CENTRAL, CONRAIL. Several of those > schemes are colorful "impulse buy" schemes. The E44 might slide in next, > as it did actually have as many road names (PRR, PC, CR, AMTRACK, NJT) and > some were colorful, but the PRR, PC and most of the CR units were dull, > dull, dull (in terms of color). The E44 could "stand in" for Muskingom > Electric Railway E50, but they had all of 2 units... > > As for the centipede... > On the minus side: > 1) Only 2 US railroads > 2) BIG loco (will it run on 18" min radius in HO?) > 3) Dull, dull, dull PRR paint (face it gang, PRR lcoos sell because lots of > people model the PRR, not because somebody decides that its a "pretty paint > scheme"...the Santa Fe sells because its pretty > > On the plus side: > 1) Unique loco - the "oddball" factor > 2) ACL scheme is pretty > 3) There are a LOT of PRR fans who would buy 2, or 4, or... > 4) You could do it in fantasy schemes (note that many manufacturers are > still happy to do this with cars, but far more reluctant to take the heat > over fake loco schemes....for example IM will introduce a number of bogus > schemes on their N-scale FGE reefer, but will likely stick to proto schemes > for the new diesels.) > > Hey, someday we might get lucky...after all LL did the DL-109...but I > should point out that a 2 unit set of BP60/BH50 locos from a company like > Broadway or LL will likely run close to $500. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Centipedes Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:32:39 -0500 Bill: Don't wait too much longer, we all may be dead. :-) Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Volkmer" To: ; "'PRR-Talk'" ; Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:52 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Centipedes > The trains mag article(you speak of)devoted to centipedes was published > in 1983. The Pennsy article was authored by myself, after D.P. Morgan > asked me via an annual postcard to write the article for over 18 years! > I had written the first version in one of the very first issues of X2200 > South, in 1962, and impressed him. He literally BEGGED me to rewrite > the article. > > I wanted to wait until most of the people on the PRR involved with the > Centipedes were dead before I wrote the article, lest I might offend > someone. > > WDV > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of > ndbprr@att.net > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:06 AM > To: PRR-Talk; VVA249@aol.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Centipedes > > > NdeM's were purchased new. Trains did an article on them many years ago > - > maybe 30. The NdeM nicknamed them, "the thousand feets" according to > the > Baldwin guy sent down there to break them in. Norm Bell > > In a message dated 1/29/03 9:00:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > mfreitas@sover.net writes: > > > > << PRR fans will buy in pairs, maybe one of each paint scheme? >> > > > > PRR fans should buy 2 at a time - Pennsy's were drawbar connected > > pairs, > > Seaboard's were single units > > (were they double ended?) and what of the NdeM's - were they bought > new or > > 2nd hand? > > > > Dick Ross > > Cleveland > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] More on Bowser I1 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:35:14 -0500 I have experience with these locos traversing 16.5" R. Just go slow like the prototype did. Lew Matt. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-talk" Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: [PRR] More on Bowser I1 > Hi, everyone, > > Thanks for your helpful suggestions. The majority view is to buy flanged > drivers from Bowser for #2 and 4. Can anyone tell me what the minimum radius > becomes for an engine modified this way? I have a 4-track main line and I > think there is one place with a minimum of 22" on the inside track. Your > thoughts? > > George Pierson > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 single motor (was CENTIPEDE and More!) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:14:51 -0500 I had a single motor (zinc? lead?) T1 that I used to run on a layout with 1.5% grades and fairly sharp curves. It pulled 10 American Beauty cars with full interiors, very well. It did well with those Athearn metal box cars too. It used The older, smaller Pittman motor, than they use now. I forget the number. I don't remember what the amperage draw was, but it was high. There was a rubber (surgical?) tube, in lieu of a universal joint, to transmit power to the front worm and gear assembly, from the rear worm and motor shaft. Each chassis had a worm on a shaft over idler over wheel gear, the rear assembly was on the motor shaft. It ran very well until the rubber tube needed replacing, the tubes would get hard and break from the lubricating oil (3 in one). When the tube stiffened up, the front drivers wouldn't track through turnouts or sharp curves. Used to replace tubes about twice a year. A friend who was a machinist and made this power train for me. When the kids were small, it mysteriously took a dive out the third floor train room window one day onto the sidewalk and the castings broke. Somehow a 2x4 and Tru-Track sections were laid from a siding off the main, right across the aisle and out the window far enough to clear the rain gutter. Thank God no one was under it when it landed, it weighed a ton! To this day, no one knows anything about it. Nobody was in the house that day either. I traded the parts for some other goodies. Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "PennsyNut" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] CENTIPEDE and More! > Hi All. IMHO! > > I would only disagree with one point. Life Like Proto 1000 has already done > some locos with what looks like good success. So why limit to LLP 2000? If > the DL109 can sell, so should the Centipede. Another choice would be > Botchman, but I'm not sure they can do it right, so I agree there. I have > no experience with Roco. The only reason I bring this up is cost. LLP1 > would be far cheaper than LLP2, Athearn Genesis, or BLI. > > As for dual engined, why? With all those wheels? And with proper > weighting? In the "real" modeling world, what difference does a 6,000 hp > engine have with the normal 3,500 hp or so? Either one on a model layout > would probably be able to pull more cars than "most" layouts can > accommodate. I saw an Atlas RS2 or 3 pull more cars than we cared to > imagine. Ditto for lots of other current diesel models. And as for steam, > that's why there's Bowser! LOL And although I've not seen one, has anyone > ever built a single motored T1? Does it pull? And if the model requires 2 > motors, is it because there are 2 sets of drivers? Can't one motor be > linked through both sets of drivers? > > A final IMHO - for those who don't like cast on grabs, etc. (as in LLP1), go > ahead and cut them off, etc. That's what "modeling" is all about. And at > $40 or so, what do you expect? I am satisfied with my C-Liner. The only > real complaint I have with any and all manufacturers is the DGLE. Athearn > Genesis is about as close as I think we can expect. (On mass produced, > non-brass). > > Morgan Bilbo > Ferroequinologist > PRRTHS #1204 and SPF > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "PGrace" ; "Lewis J. Matt PhD" ; > "Bruce Smith" > Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" > Sent: Thursday, 30 January, 2003 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] CENTIPEDE > > > > On 1/30/03 12:52 PM, PGrace (pgrace@aspects.net) wrote: > > > > > If Bachmann / Life Like are not interested we could try someone like > > > Roco.... > > > > > I wouldn't waste time with Bachmann or Roco. If you're going to take the > > time to do this model, which would likely only ever be produced once, do > it > > right. > > > > I think it would have to be one of > > > > Athearn Genesis > > Life Like Proto 2000 > > Broadway Limited Imports > > > > I don't think Atlas or Kato would touch it, and am very doubtful about > > Athearn and Life Like. Given the limited appeal, I'd bet the only > practical > > route would be BLI...at about $500 per loco. Done right, it would be worth > > it. > > > > Remember, these were HUGE locos. In model railroad terms, each loco would > > really have two engines. So an A-A set would be like four locomotives. The > > real A-A units were 6000 hp, the same as an ABBA set of E7's. > > > > So you'd have a dual engine locomotive, with sound and DCC, for $500 > retail. > > A pair of "normal" locos with widespread appeal would retail for around > > $300. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona/Strasburg/Mount Union (long) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:36:56 -0500 Hey! I'd love to eat prime rib at the Willows again, have a rocky road sundae at Joe Myers, go to Oktoberfest at the Guernsey barn and then drive down 30 East and watch the electric trains go by......... Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne S. Betty" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:22 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Altoona/Strasburg/Mount Union (long) > Howdy List: > Just my two cents worth - > I don't think the SRR would be too excited about having a K4s running on > it's rail anytime soon. > With a driving axel load close to 34 tons - yea the 7002 was 30 tons, the > current SRR motive power is all under 20 tons on drivers. > Just imagine the additional track maintenance that occurs with that extra 14 > plus tons. > And do you really want to watch it backing up half the time? > > Just for grins - an SD80MAC has an axel load of 35 tons. > > I was growing up in Strasburg in the '60s - I remember the big engines > coming to town. > I remember the increase in traffic at the east end of town and my parents > telling me to be extra careful crossing the busy Main Street to get to the > school bus stop. The other thing I remember is the new macadam pavement - > laid down by McMinns in either '65 or '66. > I'm not sure that the SRR could have grown and prospered the way it has > without the RmofPA coming to town. > Just think, we could still have The Willows and Joe Myers Restaurants, the > Guernsey barn would still be hosting special events and the Congress Inn > would be all by itself on the Lincoln Highway East. > Altoona could have Horseshoe Square and a tourist industry that would be > bringing it millions of dollars each year. > Or maybe the PHMC saw the potential draw of the Amish, the SRR and a museum > so close to Phila, New York and Baltimore. > > While the Centipede would be a lot of fun - how about something more useful > like a nice Alco C636. > > > Cos > Wayne S. Betty > Cos Communications, Inc. > Small business IT services. > > Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road > NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 > NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 > http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm > at the west end of the PRR electrified zone > > > The Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission deliberated and, by a > margin of *one vote*, chose Strasburg as the site for the state museum. > The nature and result of that process was controversial then and has > remained so ever since. In the context of state railroad history, > neither Strasburg nor Lancaster County generally has ever been known as > a railroad center -- one would never think of either in the same > category as, say, Reading, Altoona, Sayre, McKees Rocks, Harrisburg, > Enola, Pitcairn, Conway, DuBois, Greenville, Renovo, Eddystone, or even > Scranton -- i.e., no major yards or shops, no major passenger > facilities, no landmark-status fixtures or facilities, and comparatively > speaking, no major railroad employment base. Think of the final > selection as the equivalent of placing the Pennsylvania Farm Museum in > downtown Erie (except that that was placed in Lancaster County, too, > where it logically fits the heritage, geography, culture, and pattern of > land use). > > PHMC wanted to place the museum *next to* an operating steam railroad > but didn't want to get into the cost and technical involvement of > mounting and running a steam program. From PHMC's standpoint, this was > one of the biggest strikes against Altoona -- no steam and no prospect > of steam. One of the strongest arguments for Strasburg was the > double-pronged existence of the Strasburg Rail Road and the > Penn-Dutch/Amish Country tourism base that was situated within easy > driving distance of Philadelphia and the East Coast. This would, they > reasoned, guarantee a built-in flow of paying customers through any > museum that might be placed there, thus reducing the subsidy that the > state would have to fork out. > > > History happens where it happens, not where we would like it to happen > for external reasons. Would we build a Battle of Gettysburg museum in > York because the latter is on an Interstate and the former is not? With > that said, when I go to the RMPa in Strasburg to do research in the > library or archives, there's absolutely no reason why that experience > would be any more productive or successful if it were in Altoona. At > this remove, there's no point to re-fighting the battle. We can only > imagine what might have happened had PRR offered, and PHMC accepted, the > East Altoona Enginehouse. > > Dan Cupper > Harrisburg, Pa. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 00:02:03 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Items for Sale --part1_1da.3ff18cb.2b9198cb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the=20 above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp. PRR CT 1000C May,1945-Very good cond,slight wear on bottom spine and cover =A0 corners from shelf wear=A0=A0 $ 85 PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20 PRR Station Plan Book,Copy of 1907 book,71 stations E. of Pgh, a front view, a cross sect. view & shows location, 8 towers, sig bridges-2 thru 8 tracks= =20 wide. 90 pgs, 8-1/2 x11 $25=20 PRR Middle Division Interlocking Plants, Copy of 1914-1917 plans,Banks to=20 Slope, Hollidaysburg Br,Morison Cove Br, 50 pgs,8-1/2 x 14 $25 =20 PRR Map of 1881 MainLine from Alt. to Johnstown,Alleg. Portage RR & inclines= , New Portage Br,Blue print copied from original linen. $9 PRR Mine Card & Revenue Waybill,has 3 copies with carbon paper $2 PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6 PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $400 PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6 PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5 PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,=20 =A0=A0 dated 1-1-60,very good cond.=A0 $35 PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5 PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5 PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5 PRR Annual Report-1930 $30 PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25 PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12 PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15 PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50 =A0=20 PRR Middle Div ETT No.14, 4-25-49,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s $25 PRR Middle Div ETT No.17, 4-29-51,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s $25 PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $20 style= =3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents, =A0 75 cents=A0 $10 ea.bk=20 PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5 PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30 PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18 PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12 PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5 PC POST employee magizine,various issues but not all $4 PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16 PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section=20 =A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20=20 PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40 PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40 CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40 CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & logo= =A0=20 $40 CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2 reg style=A0 $15 ea. CR Annual Report-1987=A0 $12 CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo but other wise excellent.=A0 $30 Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight PRR Sleepers,old former camp cars,some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heavy=A0 $40= =A0=20 Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0=20 $55pr EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $15 Thank you. Pat McKinney --part1_1da.3ff18cb.2b9198cb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List
=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp.


PRR CT 1000C May,1945-Very good cond,slight wear on bottom spine and cover =A0 corners from shelf wear=A0=A0 $ 85
PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20=
PRR Station Plan Book,Copy of 1907 book,71 stations E. of Pgh, a fron= t view,
  a cross sect. view & shows location, 8 towers, sig bridges-2 thru= 8 tracks
  wide. 90 pgs, 8-1/2 x11  $25
PRR Middle Division Interlocking Plants, Copy of 1914-1917 plans,Banks to Sl= ope,
  Hollidaysburg Br,Morison Cove Br, 50 pgs,8-1/2 x 14   $25 
PRR Map of 1881 MainLine from Alt. to Johnstown,Alleg. Portage RR & incl= ines,
  New Portage Br,Blue print copied from original linen.  $9
PRR Mine Card & Revenue Waybill,has 3 copies with carbon paper  $2
PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6
PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $400
PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6<= /B>
PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5
PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,
=A0=A0 dated 1-1-60,very good cond.=A0 $35
PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5
PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5
PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5
PRR Annual Report-1930 $3= 0
PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25
PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12
PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15
PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50=A0
PRR Middle Div ETT No.14, 4-25-49,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s = $25
PRR Middle Div ETT No.17, 4-29-51,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s  $25
PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $20
PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents,
=A0 75 cents=A0 $10 ea.bk =
PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5
PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30
PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18
PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12
PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5
PC POST employee magizin= e,various issues but not all  $4
PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16=
PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section
=A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20
PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40<= BR> PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40=
CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40
CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & l= ogo=A0 $40
CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2= reg style=A0 $15 = ea.
CR Annual Report-1987=A0 = $12
CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo
   but other wise excellent.=A0 $30
Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight PRR Sleepers,old former camp=
   cars,some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heav= y=A0 $40=A0
Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0 $55pr
EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $= 15

Thank you.
Pat McKinney




 --part1_1da.3ff18cb.2b9198cb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 07:36:10 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Gentlemen, I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR Arranged Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in the Conrail era). However, I lack documentation that tells me: 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in the Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/bbvVKB/oEZFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 07:29:35 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer In an earlier discussion, there was mention of "buffers" on these cars. I assume --always dangerous- that the buffer is the rounded area projecting out above the coupler...which shows in some photos and plans. What is the purpose for this. I know passenger cars with end doors have them as part of the "floor" in the diaphragm area passages between cars. R50b has no end doors...HELP! Jim McDaniel, lost in Delmarva where R50bs were used for shipping seafood and dead ducks to folks in Philly and Neow Yark! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 & K5 Differences Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 09:09:26 -0500 For anybody that is interested...... Link to the scanned drawings of Hank Mummert's Bowser K5. http://groups.msn.com/Samstoys/samstrainphotos.msnw?Page=Last The parts list I will be putting into Word If anybody wants a copy of that e-mail me directly and I will send it to you. Sam Vastano >From: "Tammra Link" >To: >Subject: Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 & K5 Differences >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:06:11 -0800 > >Mr. Vastano, > If Mr. Mummert would allow it, I would appreciate that list, as I >have been doing a Bowser building frenzy, concentrating on "modernizing >L-1s Mikados. I would like to model a K-5 for my Crestline, OH based >forthcoming PRR layout. Thank You, Also, Bowser parts are available >cheaper from listmember Frank Brua of Parkvarieties than direct from >Bowser. I have dealt with him on several occasions with exceptional >results. > >Matt Link >PRR T&HS # 7140 >Vice President, The Crestline Roundhouse Preservation Society >(www.crestlineroundhouse.org) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 10:05:51 -0500 I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. I too would like to know the function of the buffers. As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub on the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their no-load, fully extended, configuration. If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped car? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "James L. McDaniel" To: "Chany, Christopher" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 7:29 AM Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > In an earlier discussion, there was mention of "buffers" on these cars. > I assume --always dangerous- that the buffer is the rounded area > projecting out above the coupler...which shows in some photos and plans. > > What is the purpose for this. I know passenger cars with end doors have > them as part of the "floor" in the diaphragm area passages between cars. > > R50b has no end doors...HELP! > > Jim McDaniel, lost in Delmarva where R50bs were used for shipping > seafood and dead ducks to folks in Philly and Neow Yark! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 12:00:53 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer In a message dated 3/1/03 9:07:28 AM Central Standard Time, frea@insight.rr.com writes: << I too would like to know the function of the buffers. >> How about an early form of car cushioning? Keep the eggs from breaking. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] Strasburg stuff: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 12:38:07 -0500 Had a chance to get by the SRR today. The ND cabin is now out by J tower in the new coach yard. The Lancaster Chapter is getting ready to paint J tower again - it still looks better then it did in it's last years at Lemoyne. http://www.wsbcos.com/srr/prrnd.jpg http://www.wsbcos.com/srr/prrjtower.jpg The shop forces have applied Number 31's original CN number plate. http://www.wsbcos.com/srr/7312c.jpg More changes coming to SRR soon too! Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:51:37 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Hi list members, The buffers are intended to keep the coupler slack stretched in a passenger train. This prevents a rough ride for the passengers in the other cars of the train - you don't have the "slam" effect of the slack running in and out. - Claus > I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. I > too would like to know the function of the buffers. > > As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One > plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub on > the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their no-load, > fully extended, configuration. > > If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across > them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. > > Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped car? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:51:16 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] QClass Duplex --0-684282833-1046541076=:92499 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Did the Q class duplex ever run over eastern Panhandle rails, i.e., Pittsburgh to Mingo, or only on the Ft. Wayne, Conway and west? Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-684282833-1046541076=:92499 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Did the Q class duplex ever run over eastern Panhandle rails, i.e., Pittsburgh to Mingo, or only on the Ft. Wayne, Conway and west?  Thanks.  Ron


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-684282833-1046541076=:92499-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:45:57 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] 4-digit N5's for M&E trains In a message dated 3/1/03 4:55:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:15:53 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > Some of the 5xxx cabins also were maked "For Passenger Service: Railway > Express Agency". > > Dominic Mazoch One email claimed that the 1945 roster was N5 Crew Express Cars 5001, 5010, 5011, 5012, 5013, 5015, 5018 (and up to 5032) with 2A-F5 trucks However, the December 1965 ORPTE (Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment) lists car numbers from 5001 to 5034. > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:40:35 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > The KEYSTONE had an article about these cabins. > > Dominic Mazoch > I've missed indexing that article -- anybody know which issue? BTW, I've seen pix of these N5's in NK4 paint (remember, the CK phase was cancelled for these cars) and with the extra "Railway Express Agency" lettering. I believe I've actually seen some in Futura. What I don't remember seeing is N5's in SK1b or PK with the extra lettering -- and yet, obviously the cars existed well into the PK period. I'm also surprised that Bowser hasn't released their N5 kit in one or more of these "passenger" letterings. Of course, we're talking about a handful of cabins in a sea of 600-odd N5's. But they're an interesting handful. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:46:09 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] 6 men in Indiana In a message dated 3/1/03 12:05:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:06:27 EST > > In a message dated 2/28/03 10:59:31 AM Central Standard Time, > bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > > << Locals around Chicago and other places always put the cabin behind the > engine so that the crew could easily converse with one another (in the > days before radios). >> > > Was gonna ask this on Pennsy West list, but there are probably enough > Indiana > spfs to answer it here. What was the Indiana rule for cabins (crews?) on > both headend and rearend? Locals only? Dates in effect? > > Bob Zoeller > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: "Randy Williamson" > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:08:55 -0600 > > --=====================_164931919==.ALT > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Bob, > > If my memory serves me correctly the law was if the train was over 69 cars > their had to be a swing brakeman added to the crew. > > Randy IIRC that was Indiana law, requiring the 6th man -- which generated such exotica as Monon's rider cars, which were often photographed right behind the engine. I don't know what era the law was rescinded, but pictures like this go well into the diesel era. Unfortunately, I'm still looking for pix that show PRR (or B&O, or NYC) trains in Indiana with a cabin cut in behind the tender or diesel consist. I have no knowledge of whether they carried 4 men in the engine, or 3 on the rear. BTW, saw a recent post that indicated New York state law may have also required an extra man under some conditions. Can anyone elaborate? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:46:09 EST Subject: [PRR] 6 men in Indiana --part1_50.18f4a13c.2b926801_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/03 12:05:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:06:27 EST > > In a message dated 2/28/03 10:59:31 AM Central Standard Time, > bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > > << Locals around Chicago and other places always put the cabin behind the > engine so that the crew could easily converse with one another (in the > days before radios). >> > > Was gonna ask this on Pennsy West list, but there are probably enough > Indiana > spfs to answer it here. What was the Indiana rule for cabins (crews?) on > both headend and rearend? Locals only? Dates in effect? > > Bob Zoeller > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: "Randy Williamson" > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:08:55 -0600 > > --=====================_164931919==.ALT > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Bob, > > If my memory serves me correctly the law was if the train was over 69 cars > their had to be a swing brakeman added to the crew. > > Randy IIRC that was Indiana law, requiring the 6th man -- which generated such exotica as Monon's rider cars, which were often photographed right behind the engine. I don't know what era the law was rescinded, but pictures like this go well into the diesel era. Unfortunately, I'm still looking for pix that show PRR (or B&O, or NYC) trains in Indiana with a cabin cut in behind the tender or diesel consist. I have no knowledge of whether they carried 4 men in the engine, or 3 on the rear. BTW, saw a recent post that indicated New York state law may have also required an extra man under some conditions. Can anyone elaborate? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_50.18f4a13c.2b926801_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/1/03 12:05:18 AM Eastern Standard= Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on fr= ont or back of train?
From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:06:27 EST

In a message dated 2/28/03 10:59:31 AM Central Standard Time,
bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes:

<< Locals around Chicago and other places always put the cabin behind=20= the
engine so that the crew could easily converse with one another (in the
days before radios). >>

Was gonna ask this on Pennsy West list, but there are probably enough Indian= a
spfs to answer it here.  What was the Indiana rule for cabins (crews?)=20= on
both headend and rearend?  Locals only?  Dates in effect?

Bob Zoeller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train?
From: "Randy Williamson" <pennsy@vbe.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:08:55 -0600

--=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_164931919= =3D=3D.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"; format=3Dflowed

Bob,

If my memory serves me correctly the law was if the train was over 69 cars <= BR> their had to be a swing brakeman added to the crew.

Randy


IIRC that was Indiana law, requiring the 6th man -- which generated such exo= tica as Monon's rider cars, which were often photographed right behind the e= ngine.  I don't know what era the law was rescinded, but pictures like=20= this go well into the diesel era.

Unfortunately, I'm still looking for pix that show PRR (or B&O, or NYC)=20= trains in Indiana with a cabin cut in behind the tender or diesel consist. I= have no knowledge of whether they carried 4 men in the engine, or 3 on the=20= rear.

BTW, saw a recent post that indicated New York state law may have also requi= red an extra man under some conditions.  Can anyone elaborate?

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_50.18f4a13c.2b926801_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:45:57 EST Subject: [PRR] 4-digit N5's for M&E trains --part1_41.2bc8edd4.2b9267f5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/03 4:55:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:15:53 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > Some of the 5xxx cabins also were maked "For Passenger Service: Railway > Express Agency". > > Dominic Mazoch One email claimed that the 1945 roster was N5 Crew Express Cars 5001, 5010, 5011, 5012, 5013, 5015, 5018 (and up to 5032) with 2A-F5 trucks However, the December 1965 ORPTE (Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment) lists car numbers from 5001 to 5034. > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:40:35 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > The KEYSTONE had an article about these cabins. > > Dominic Mazoch > I've missed indexing that article -- anybody know which issue? BTW, I've seen pix of these N5's in NK4 paint (remember, the CK phase was cancelled for these cars) and with the extra "Railway Express Agency" lettering. I believe I've actually seen some in Futura. What I don't remember seeing is N5's in SK1b or PK with the extra lettering -- and yet, obviously the cars existed well into the PK period. I'm also surprised that Bowser hasn't released their N5 kit in one or more of these "passenger" letterings. Of course, we're talking about a handful of cabins in a sea of 600-odd N5's. But they're an interesting handful. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_41.2bc8edd4.2b9267f5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/1/03 4:55:53 AM Eastern Standard=20= Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:15:53 -0600
   From: Dominic M Mazoch <domemt@juno.com>
Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains

Some of the 5xxx cabins also were maked "For Passenger Service:  Railwa= y
Express Agency".

Dominic Mazoch
<= BR>
One email claimed that the 1= 945 roster was

N5 Crew Express Cars 5001, 5010, 5011, 5012, 5013, 5015, 5018 (and up to 503= 2) with 2A-F5 trucks

However, the December 1965 ORPTE (Official Register of Passenger Train Equip= ment) lists car numbers from 5001 to 5034.



________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
   Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:40:35 -0600
   From: Dominic M Mazoch <domemt@juno.com>
Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains

The KEYSTONE had an article about these cabins.

Dominic Mazoch

I've missed indexing that article -- anybody know which issue?

BTW, I've seen pix of these N5's in NK4 paint (remember, the CK phase was ca= ncelled for these cars) and with the extra "Railway Express Agency" letterin= g.  I believe I've actually seen some in Futura.  What I don't rem= ember seeing is N5's in SK1b or PK with the extra lettering -- and yet, obvi= ously the cars existed well into the PK period.  I'm also surprised tha= t Bowser hasn't released their N5 kit in one or more of these "passenger" le= tterings.

Of course, we're talking about a handful of cabins in a sea of 600-odd N5's.=   But they're an interesting handful.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_41.2bc8edd4.2b9267f5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 16:09:22 -0500 Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent passenger car? I doubt those were sprung for drawbar forces, just to maintain contact with the next car. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claus Schlund" To: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > Hi list members, > > The buffers are intended to keep the coupler slack stretched > in a passenger train. This prevents a rough ride for the > passengers in the other cars of the train - you don't have the > "slam" effect of the slack running in and out. > > - Claus > > > > > I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. I > > too would like to know the function of the buffers. > > > > As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One > > plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub on > > the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their no-load, > > fully extended, configuration. > > > > If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across > > them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. > > > > Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped car? > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 16:34:20 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point From: Jerry Britton Last month MR previewed this months issue, promising drawings of a "Great Lakes Coal Pier". I speculated at the time that it "could" be the PRR's Sodus Point pier. My copy arrived today. It is indeed the PRR's coal pier at Sodus Point! Good to see the coverage. Haven't read the article yet, but will in a moment. BTW, a few years ago I purchased on eBay the valuation maps for the area. Shows not only the pier trackage and the trackage around the malt house, but also the harbor itself, complete with channel markers! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 13:36:47 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] New Locomotive movement --0-1738328278-1046554607=:30169 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination? I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going. Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"? Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished? Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination? Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails? What about diesels? Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1738328278-1046554607=:30169 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination?  I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going.  Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"?  Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished?  Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination?  Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails?  What about diesels?  Thanks.  Ron 


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1738328278-1046554607=:30169-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:15:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement From: aurora7@juno.com I'm sorry to lower the group, but I can't resist... The first thing I thought of when I read the subject header was, "Oh yeah, I've had one of those. Thought I passed a locomotive....." And now, back to our regular program. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "Life begins at 40, but so does arthritus and telling the same story over three times." _Sam Levenson ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:48:58 -0500 GROAN!! I can see cabin fever is setting in. Next thing you know it'll be mud season up here. What will that bring? Wasn't this a thread a few months ago?? Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > I'm sorry to lower the group, but I can't resist... > > The first thing I thought of when I read the subject header was, "Oh > yeah, I've had one of those. Thought I passed a locomotive....." > > And now, back to our regular program. > > Richard Glueck > Peace of the Planet Farm > Winterport, Maine > > "Life begins at 40, but so does arthritus and telling the same story over > three times." _Sam Levenson > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 15:01:13 -0800 From: Ken Douglas Subject: [PRR] Re: New Locomotives Baldwins were delivered directly since the PRR served the plant on-line. They may have been set up by the BLW/BLH service engineer either at Philly or their in service location. I witnessed the EMD service engineer set up three GP30 units at 59th Street in Chicago. They had been shipped dead to Colhour Yard in Indiana for turning over the PRR. This was to avoid Illinois taxes. Alcos were shipped down dead from Schenectady, often by the D&H at Buttonwood yard in Wilkes-Barre. I do not know if they were set up where they were given to the PRR. I do not know how the FM or GE units went to the PRR. Of course the units built at Erie could have been shipped to the PRR via the NYC. Ken Douglas ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 18:14:57 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Hi Fred, You asked: > Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent passenger > car? No, the buffer does not touch the diaphragm of the next car. The buffer touches the buffer of the next car. You are confusing the diaphragm with the buffer. The diaphragm and the buffer are not the same thing. The diaphragm is what passengers walk thru. It probably has only very light spring action. The buffer is what keeps the slack stretched. It has a strong spring action. The only thing they have in common is they are both on the end of the car. As the R50b shows, you can have a buffer even if you don't have a diaphragm! - Claus > Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent passenger > car? I doubt those were sprung for drawbar forces, just to maintain contact > with the next car. > > Fred > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Claus Schlund" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > > > > Hi list members, > > > > The buffers are intended to keep the coupler slack stretched > > in a passenger train. This prevents a rough ride for the > > passengers in the other cars of the train - you don't have the > > "slam" effect of the slack running in and out. > > > > - Claus > > > > > > > > > I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. > I > > > too would like to know the function of the buffers. > > > > > > As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One > > > plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub > on > > > the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their > no-load, > > > fully extended, configuration. > > > > > > If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across > > > them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. > > > > > > Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped > car? > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GFPat420@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 22:12:04 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: Buffers and diaphrams I don't want to start a revolution, but my understanding of the buffer is to provide the walkway, as in from one car to the other. The diaphragms provide the sides and top cover of the walk way, in effect. The older style was canvas diaphragms with a metal plate. Some commuter properties use rubber tubes. Amfleet cars had a kind of foam-filled rubber-covered affair, with a composition (Gatke) facing. At any rate, the buffer springs are nothing, compared to the draft gear. Tight lock couplers minimize slack action between cars. George in Baltimore ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 22:19:56 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer The NY Central Hudson tenders had buffers over their couplers. Steve Bartlett Claus Schlund wrote: ....... As the R50b shows, you can have a buffer even if you don't have a diaphragm! - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Garry Spear Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: New Locomotives Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 22:57:41 -0500 >> >> Snip >> I do not know how the FM or GE units went to the PRR. Of course the units built at Erie could have been shipped to the PRR via the NYC. Ken Douglas The units built at Erie were delivered to the PRR at Erie. Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 23:19:29 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: New Locomotives Garry's right about the GE units being delivered to the PRR at Erie. The GE's East Erie Commercial RR had a direct connection to the PRR via the P&E's 10th Street Branch. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 01:44:43 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Rea" To: "Claus Schlund" Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:42 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > Are you saying there are buffers that do keep the slack out on passenger > cars? Never realized that. I appreciate the correction. I always assumed > what was under my feet as I passed between cars was just a walk way, and the > tight lock couplers reduced the slack action. > > Did cars like passenger service X29s have them too? > > Fred > > PS They still still seem way too long on the Walthers cars. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Claus Schlund" > To: "Fred Rea" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 9:14 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > You asked: > > > > > Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent > passenger > > > car? > > > > No, the buffer does not touch the diaphragm of > > the next car. The buffer touches the buffer of the next car. > > > > You are confusing the diaphragm with the buffer. > > > > The diaphragm and the buffer are not the same thing. > > > > The diaphragm is what passengers walk thru. It probably > > has only very light spring action. > > > > The buffer is what keeps the slack stretched. It has > > a strong spring action. > > > > The only thing they have in common is they are > > both on the end of the car. > > > > As the R50b shows, you can have a buffer even if you don't > > have a diaphragm! > > > > - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 00:00:10 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Reefer Hi Fred, > Are you saying there are buffers that do keep the slack out on passenger > cars? Correct. > Never realized that. I appreciate the correction. I always assumed > what was under my feet as I passed between cars was just a walk way, and the > tight lock couplers reduced the slack action. > > Did cars like passenger service X29s have them too? No, the X29 fleet did not have them. I will mention that the X29 fleet was not liked by some shippers and railroads (other than the PRR of course) because they had a reputation for being rough-riding. The lack of buffers may have contributed to this. While not universal, milk cars almost always had buffers just like the R50b did. I don't know for sure about REA express reefers. In N scale, "Details by Eric" makes a buffer as a detail part. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 06:59:13 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] CABOOSE HANDRAIL PAINTING PRR TALK, Can anyone tell me when the PRR started to paint the hand-rails & grab-irons YELLOW on their N-5b cabins? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 07:42:09 EST Subject: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) --part1_9c.2e7ec995.2b935621_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen, I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR Arranged Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in the Conrail era). However, I lack documentation that tells me: 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in the Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_9c.2e7ec995.2b935621_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen,

I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc.  as the successor to PRR Arrange= d Freight Schedules.  I know that Conrail used
xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard
xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ
xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in the C= onrail era).

However, I lack documentation that tells me:
1. what origin point was assigned letters PX?  Context says it's in the= Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH (Coleh= our), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yar= d), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW= Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC= Clearing Yard).

2.  in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run?

The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because Conrail n= ormally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the Chicago area=20= -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", allowing the Big Split= between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via Pittsburgh and Harrisbu= rg to be made right there.  Thus, trains dispatched from the Chicago ar= ea and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special...



Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_9c.2e7ec995.2b935621_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:27:24 EST Subject: [PRR] Passenger car photos --part1_ac.3aafeb7b.2b9360bc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car heading. Note in the one shot of the "B50B" (actually R50B) the "Altoona" box car to the right of the express reefer. Anyone have info. on this box car? Evan Leisey --part1_ac.3aafeb7b.2b9360bc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car heading= . 

Note in the one shot of the "B50B" (actually R50B) the "Altoona" box car to= the right of the express reefer.  Anyone have info. on this box car?
Evan Leisey --part1_ac.3aafeb7b.2b9360bc_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 & K5 Differences Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 08:51:46 -0500 Posted the parts list to my website for anyone to down load. Here is the link. http://groups.msn.com/Samstoys/files.msnw Sam Vastano _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 06:50:23 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Union Transportation Co., next question --- AHARTPRR137@aol.com wrote: > wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > > > How long after 1956 did the U. T. Co. continue to > > exist? Does it still exist? > > The last run was made on March 31, 1977 [...] U. T. Co. officially > dissolved on May 23, 1981. Can anyone say why the U. T. Co. was incorporated. The ICC report seems to say that it came into being for the express purpose of leasing and operating the Pemberton Branch of the P&A. That seems to me to be backwards. Big company leases little company's property seems to be the usual course. So, what was the reason for leasing the branch and operating it as a separate entity? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: [PRR] MoPac head end car Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 10:34:08 -0500 Back in mid-January there was a thread discussing an unidentified head end car shown (near Cove, I believe) in one of the many PRR videos. Seems we collectively decided it was a MoPac car based on the apparent blue/white paint scheme and that it was very similar looking to a B60b. I was just watching Herron's Pennsylvania Glory Volume 2 and about midway through the tape on the last shot in Altoona (just before the Horseshoe Curve segment) is a fairly clear shot of one of these cars sitting on a siding just behind the L1 being featured in the shot. It is clearly (to my eye) a MoPac car. It appears to look very similar to a B60b. It also has what appear to be narrow vertical black stripes the length of the car, but they could be shadows. I can see that the doors have square windows. Now to research the MoPac to see what kind of car this is. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger car photos Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 11:38:26 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2E0B0.3D6832A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Evan: I don't think I'm getting all the emails. =20 Where is this "Passenger car heading ??? All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:27 AM Subject: [PRR] Passenger car photos Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car heading. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2E0B0.3D6832A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Evan:  I don't = think I'm getting=20 all the emails. 
 
Where is this = "Passenger car heading=20 ???
 
All the best to you and yours      =20 Weldon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 = 8:27=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Passenger car = photos

Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car=20 heading. 

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2E0B0.3D6832A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac head end car Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:00:48 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Breon" I was just watching Herron's Pennsylvania Glory Volume 2 and about > midway through the tape on the last shot in Altoona (just before the > Horseshoe Curve segment) is a fairly clear shot of one of these cars sitting on a siding just behind the L1 being featured in the shot. Sorry, it's an I1sa rather than an L1 being featured. My mistake. Jerry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Panza" Subject: Re: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:26:14 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2E0B6.EA8D3E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I remember the PXEN passing through Altoona in the late afternoon and at = that time there was a mechanic from Merchants Despatch who monitored the = train. The PX was the abbreviation for Perishable Express. With the = volume of UPFE reefers, I suspect that it originated at Proviso Yard on = what was then C&NW. Does anyone have a copy of the book "Conrail = Commodities" that can confirm this? Was this the stepchild of CG-8 or = CG-2? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RickTipton@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:42 AM Subject: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Gentlemen, I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR = Arranged Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used=20 xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ=20 xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in = the Conrail era). However, I lack documentation that tells me: 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in = the Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH = (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF = Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW = Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF = Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because = Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the = Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", = allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines = via Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains = dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be = something special... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2E0B6.EA8D3E70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I remember the PXEN passing through = Altoona in the=20 late afternoon and at that time there was a mechanic from Merchants = Despatch who=20 monitored the train.  The PX was the abbreviation for Perishable=20 Express.  With the volume of UPFE reefers, I suspect that it = originated at=20 Proviso Yard on what was then C&NW.  Does anyone have a copy of = the=20 book "Conrail Commodities" that can confirm this?  Was this the = stepchild=20 of CG-8 or CG-2?
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RickTipton@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 = 6:42=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and = PXPI=20 (Arranged Freight Schedules)

Gentlemen,

I keep seeing references to = PXEN,=20 etc.  as the successor to PRR Arranged Freight Schedules.  I = know=20 that Conrail used
xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard
xxCA = for=20 trains destined to Camden NJ
xxPI for trains destined to = Pittsburgh (but=20 specifically for Conway in the Conrail era).

However, I lack=20 documentation that tells me:
1. what origin point was assigned = letters=20 PX?  Context says it's in the Chicago area, where other origin = yards=20 included FN (59th Street), CH (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the = Chicago=20 Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF = (55th=20 Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South = Chicago), SF=20 (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard).

2.  = in what=20 period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run?

The answers to these questions are particulary = interesting=20 because Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic = from=20 the Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", = allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines = via=20 Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there.  Thus, trains=20 dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be = something=20 special...



Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the = Pennsylvania=20 Railroad and especially PRR Lines West = ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2E0B6.EA8D3E70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 11:56:22 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement --0-181512674-1046634982=:91049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc. For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron Ronald Di Orio wrote:How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination? I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going. Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"? Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished? Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination? Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails? What about diesels? Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-181512674-1046634982=:91049 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase.  What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc.  For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails?  Thanks again, Ron

 

 Ronald Di Orio <prr2249@yahoo.com> wrote:

How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination?  I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going.  Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"?  Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished?  Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination?  Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails?  What about diesels?  Thanks.  Ron 


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-181512674-1046634982=:91049-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Trichtinger" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:18:02 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Di Orio" To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 14:56 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > > Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc. For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron In Worley & Poellot's book on the Pittsburgh & West Virginia, they note that the P&WV Baldwin J Class 2-6-6-4s were run under their own power on the PRR to be delivered to the P&WV. It doesn't say whether they were interchanged at Clairton or Bridgeville, but I suspect the former. Nor does it say whether they hauled any Pennsy freight during the delivery runs. Peace Kevin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 17:03:07 -0500 I heard that some larger locomotives were routed over the PRR's Philadelphia & Erie branch to avoid tight curves & tunnels on the main line. Does anyone have more info about that? --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Trichtinger" To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ronald Di Orio" > To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; "PRR Talk" > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 14:56 > Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > > > > > > Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, > but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. What I > was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc. > For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how > did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron > > In Worley & Poellot's book on the Pittsburgh & West Virginia, they note that > the P&WV Baldwin J Class 2-6-6-4s were run under their own power on the PRR > to be delivered to the P&WV. It doesn't say whether they were interchanged > at Clairton or Bridgeville, but I suspect the former. Nor does it say > whether they hauled any Pennsy freight during the delivery runs. > > Peace > Kevin > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 18:14:30 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2E0E7.91A0D8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ron & List, As has been mentioned by others, steam power was occasionally deliverted = under power. In addition to the P&WV locos mentioned, the History of the = RF&P, issued by that road, shows photographs of the RF&P 4-8-4's being = delivered by the PRR (and B&O) under their own steam from Baldwin at = Eddystone to Potomac Yard. OTOH, an article in "Trains" described delivery of SP Cab Forwards = indicating they were hauled dead-in-tow from Eddystone all the way to El = Paso, TX, before the main rods were attached and they were steamed up. With Diesels, a great deal depends on the ralationship of the owning = railroad with the railroad serving the manufacturer, the type of = locomotive (are crews familiar with it?), and the need for additional = power as opposed to additional revenue. I once tried to get CSXT to use = three GP15-T's bought from EMD in 1983, but they insisted on hauling = them dead in tow and charging us, saying they were not suitable power = for Chicago-Florida trains.. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ronald Di Orio=20 To: Ronald Di Orio ; PRR Talk=20 Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the = PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. = What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by = Baldwin, etc. For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or = SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron=20 =20 Ronald Di Orio wrote:=20 How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the = manufacturer to their eventual destination? I am thinking specifically = of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco = that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they = were eventually going. Was the whole order or part of it coupled = together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"? Or were single = locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished? Were locomotives = moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added = at destination? Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and = transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling = a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy = rails? What about diesels? Thanks. Ron =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2E0E7.91A0D8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ron & List,
 
As has been mentioned by others, steam power was = occasionally=20 deliverted under power. In addition to the P&WV locos mentioned, the = History=20 of the RF&P, issued by that road, shows photographs of the RF&P = 4-8-4's=20 being delivered by the PRR (and B&O) under their own steam from = Baldwin at=20 Eddystone to Potomac Yard.
 
OTOH, an article in "Trains" described delivery of = SP Cab=20 Forwards indicating they were hauled dead-in-tow from Eddystone all the = way to=20 El Paso, TX, before the main rods were attached and they were steamed=20 up.
 
With Diesels, a great deal depends on the = ralationship of the=20 owning railroad with the railroad serving the manufacturer, the type of=20 locomotive (are crews familiar with it?), and the need for additional = power as=20 opposed to additional revenue. I once tried to get CSXT to use three = GP15-T's=20 bought from EMD in 1983, but they insisted on hauling them dead in tow = and=20 charging us, saying they were not suitable power for Chicago-Florida=20 trains..
 
Gregg Mahlkov
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ronald = Di Orio=20
To: Ronald Di Orio ; PRR = Talk
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 = 2:56=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] New = Locomotive=20 movement

Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the = PRR, but=20 I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase.  = What I was=20 talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, = etc. =20 For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, = how did=20 it travel over Pennsy rails?  Thanks again, Ron=20

=20

 Ronald Di Orio <prr2249@yahoo.com> = wrote:=20 How=20 did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the = manufacturer to=20 their eventual destination?  I am thinking specifically of all = the=20 locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would = appear=20 to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were = eventually=20 going.  Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and = hauled=20 off, like the "Prosperity Special"?  Or were single = locomotives,=20 or two's and three's shipped as finished?  Were = locomotives moved=20 complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added = at=20 destination?  Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and=20 transported under their own power, either as individual units or = pulling a=20 train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy = rails?  What about diesels?  Thanks.  Ron =20


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Yahoo!=20 Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and = more ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2E0E7.91A0D8E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jedalberg@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:06:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) The PXEN/PXSE originated at Blue Island on the IHB. I was working at Enola in '78, and the PXEN would arrive in the late evening / early am and would have to be humped immediatelly, as there were usually 5-7 reefers to make the ENPG; which if I recall left about 6am. Reefers were for the Phila Produce Market. The cars would naturally be spread throughout the train, so you couldn't just swing a block (also naturally) to the outbound. As time went on the train became less (and less) reliable--hey, if we just hold it for 20min (always takes at least an hour!) at X, we can add these empty hoppers--and it became another junk freight. Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:24:12 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Ronald Di Orio wrote: > Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I Ron, I plan to model soem of these movements with Dead in tow locos. There are a number of pictures of Baldwin products on Manor Siding in Columbia. They were dropped there as it was an excellent place for a Baldwin rep to have access to check out the bearings to make sure that they weren't overheating (Eddystone-Perryville, onto the C&PD - Columbia - onto the A&S to Enola and points west. My guess is that the majority of deliveries were hauled dead, as running live would have required a Baldwin engineers to run the loco (since the PRR engineer wasn't qualified) and a PRR engineer to be the "guide" since the Balwindman was qualified on that section of the railroad... In the photos I've seen, the rods are off, the stacks covered and the headlights, and sometime windows are covered with wood. Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:25:51 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac head end car In a message dated 3/2/03 9:40:46 AM Central Standard Time, jbreon@email.msn.com writes: << It also has what appear to be narrow vertical black stripes the length of the car, but they could be shadows. >> Are you sure the cars are only 60 feet? They may have used both 60 and 70 footers. In any case there were several types and I too have seen some with the "vertical black stripes". I don't know if those are heavy rivet lines or plated over windows in a coach or other car converted to baggage and express service. There is a picture in Trackside around Chicago which seems to really look like they are plated over windows. One car even looks like it has an old vestibule plated over. I agree we need to get the MOP guys to chime in. And there is the complication of any differences with same paint job Texas and Pacific cars also used. I'll ask on the PCL list. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: USMCnewdog25431@cs.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 23:37:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Cars --part1_31.34ed80fd.2b9435fe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was just reading in a Keystone from the late 1980s, and it was stated that this was done when they were switching to a different cabin for that train then the crew could change over their gear during regular working hours! Cant waste any time stopped! :) I believe this was a personal account. Mike Schock Sandusky, Ohio --part1_31.34ed80fd.2b9435fe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was just reading in a Keystone from the late 1980s,=20= and it was stated that this was done when they were switching to a different= cabin for that train then the crew could change over their gear during regu= lar working hours!  Cant waste any time stopped! :)  I believe thi= s was a personal account.

Mike Schock
Sandusky, Ohio
 --part1_31.34ed80fd.2b9435fe_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 07:56:42 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Gil Reid PRRT&HS PR Manager Frank Kuhn prepared the following for me for the " e-NEWS. " In as much as it will not go out until March 21st I'm forwarding it to the PRR lists early so those of you who know Gil get the word sooner. Al ====================== On February 24th Legendary Rail Artist Gil Reid suffered a heart attack at his home in Brookfield , WI and was taken to Waukesha Memorial Hospital to under go open heart surgery . He was operated on February 27th and came through with flying colors. Doctors were amazed that an 85 year old man survived the attack and surgery . Gil is now resting and is in fine fettle. He was moved from ICU on Saturday, March 1st to a regular room. As most of us know Gil has been painting our and his beloved PRR since 1935. Anybody wishing to send a card or best wishes may send it to Mr. Gil Reid , 18455 Harvest Lane Brookfield, WI 53045-5446. Gil has recieved many awards but his most cherished is the award we the PRRT&HS gave him in 2001 . . On talking to him Sunday afternoon (March 2nd) I asked how he felt, his replied - " Like A K4 after a Boiler wash ! " Only Gil! He should resume his normal routine in a few months . So let's show Gil we care, as we all know a get well card is great medicine . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 07:56:42 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] Gil Reid This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_SEWb7tXVEto+8vdUKjKO1Q) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT PRRT&HS PR Manager Frank Kuhn prepared the following for me for the " e-NEWS. " In as much as it will not go out until March 21st I'm forwarding it to the PRR lists early so those of you who know Gil get the word sooner. Al ====================== On February 24th Legendary Rail Artist Gil Reid suffered a heart attack at his home in Brookfield , WI and was taken to Waukesha Memorial Hospital to under go open heart surgery . He was operated on February 27th and came through with flying colors. Doctors were amazed that an 85 year old man survived the attack and surgery . Gil is now resting and is in fine fettle. He was moved from ICU on Saturday, March 1st to a regular room. As most of us know Gil has been painting our and his beloved PRR since 1935. Anybody wishing to send a card or best wishes may send it to Mr. Gil Reid , 18455 Harvest Lane Brookfield, WI 53045-5446. Gil has recieved many awards but his most cherished is the award we the PRRT&HS gave him in 2001 . . On talking to him Sunday afternoon (March 2nd) I asked how he felt, his replied - " Like A K4 after a Boiler wash ! " Only Gil! He should resume his normal routine in a few months . So let's show Gil we care, as we all know a get well card is great medicine . --Boundary_(ID_SEWb7tXVEto+8vdUKjKO1Q) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message
 
 PRRT&HS PR Manager Frank Kuhn prepared the following for me for the  " e-NEWS. "   In as much as it will not go out until March 21st I'm forwarding it to the PRR lists early so those of you who know Gil get the word sooner.
 
Al 
======================
 
On February 24th Legendary Rail Artist Gil Reid  suffered a heart attack at his home in Brookfield , WI and was taken to Waukesha Memorial Hospital to under go  open  heart  surgery .  He was operated on February 27th and came through with flying colors. Doctors were amazed  that an  85 year old man survived the attack and surgery . Gil is now resting and is in fine fettle. He was moved from ICU on Saturday, March 1st  to a regular room. As most of us know Gil has been painting  our and his  beloved PRR since 1935. Anybody wishing to send a card or best wishes may send  it to Mr. Gil Reid ,  18455 Harvest Lane Brookfield, WI 53045-5446. Gil has recieved many awards but his most cherished is the award we the PRRT&HS gave him in 2001 . . On talking to him Sunday afternoon  (March 2nd)  I asked how he felt, his replied  -  " Like A K4 after a Boiler wash ! "  Only Gil! He should resume his normal routine in a few months . So let's show Gil  we care, as we all know a get well card is great medicine .       
 
 
 
--Boundary_(ID_SEWb7tXVEto+8vdUKjKO1Q)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:09:14 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C2E15C.2E6188E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have lots of pictures of foreign locomotives DIT to other roads, including SCL, SP, Tenn. Central, NH etc. They were usually in the front one-third of the train, but never immediately behind the hauling locomotive, lest the crew try to claim extra units on their time sheet. One interesting point regarding PRR locomotive deliveries. When I was working at Chicago, 59th Street EH and EMD was delivering the GP-30s, EMD would deliver the units via IHB to just over the Indiana line, where a PRR operative would sign for them. Then a PRR crew would tow them back west to Chicago's south side where we would add fuel, water and sand and release them to service. WHY? You ask, would they do that? Why to avoid paying Illinois State Sales Tax, of course. Pennsy folks were humans too, you see. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ronald Di Orio Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:56 PM To: Ronald Di Orio; PRR Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc. For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron Ronald Di Orio wrote: How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination? I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going. Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"? Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished? Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination? Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails? What about diesels? Thanks. Ron _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C2E15C.2E6188E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I  have lots of pictures of = foreign=20 locomotives DIT to other roads, including=20 SCL, SP, Tenn. Central, NH=20 etc.  They were usually in the front one-third of the train, = but=20 never immediately behind the hauling locomotive, lest the crew try to = claim=20 extra units on their time sheet.
 
One interesting point = regarding PRR=20 locomotive deliveries.  When I was working at Chicago, 59th Street = EH and=20 EMD was delivering the GP-30s, EMD would deliver the units via IHB to = just over=20 the Indiana line, where a PRR operative would sign for them.  Then = a PRR=20 crew would tow them back west to Chicago's south side where we would add = fuel,=20 water and sand and release them to=20 service.
 
WHY?  You ask, would they = do=20 that?  Why to avoid paying Illinois State Sales Tax, of = course. =20 Pennsy folks were humans too, you = see.
 
Bill=20 V.
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of = Ronald Di=20 Orio
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:56 PM
To: = Ronald Di=20 Orio; PRR Talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive=20 movement

Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the = PRR, but=20 I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase.  = What I was=20 talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, = etc. =20 For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, = how did=20 it travel over Pennsy rails?  Thanks again, Ron=20

=20

 Ronald Di Orio <prr2249@yahoo.com> wrote: = How=20 did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the = manufacturer to=20 their eventual destination?  I am thinking specifically of all = the=20 locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would = appear=20 to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were = eventually=20 going.  Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and = hauled=20 off, like the "Prosperity Special"?  Or were single = locomotives,=20 or two's and three's shipped as finished?  Were = locomotives moved=20 complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added = at=20 destination?  Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and=20 transported under their own power, either as individual units or = pulling a=20 train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy = rails?  What about diesels?  Thanks.  Ron =20


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Yahoo!=20 Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and = more ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C2E15C.2E6188E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:47:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] semi-off topic Info needed - From: "PRR-Talk" >While going through some "archives" (junk in the closet) I found some old 8mm >movies I had taken of the Strasburg Railroad. There were also some footage of >a pair of GG1s pulling a Trailer Train along the mainline at Paradise, Pa. while >the Strasburg loco ran around the train. Since my 8mm projector no longer works, >I was curious if anyone has had old movies converted to video and the approximate >cost. I have about 20 rolls of film I would like to convert. One of them was >taken by a crew member on a Reading freight pulled by a GP7 in the late 1950s. >I shows what it is like riding in the caboose and some switching. Any help and >info would be appreciated. > >Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 09:09:35 -0500 From: davep Subject: Film to video/dvd/etc (Re: [PRR] semi-off topic Info needed ) I have had it done. There are multiple ways. I did film-video, I disrecall the cost. services will be listed in yellow pages, and its NOT 'very expensive'. The results were good. (Your Milage May Vary.) But: Videotape has inherently less resolution than film. Information will be lost. Various digital formats (DVD, etc) can capture all the resolution on the original 8/super8. Costs will be higher. ANY process that goes 'via' videotape will lose 'info' that is on the original film. Consider retaining the original film for possible later, higher res, transfer. ================================================================= Nick Kulp wrote: > From: "PRR-Talk" >>While going through some "archives" (junk in the closet) >>I found some old 8mm movies I had taken of the Strasburg >>Railroad. There were also some footage of a pair of GG1s >>pulling a Trailer Train along the mainline at Paradise, >> Pa. while the Strasburg loco ran around the train. Since >>my 8mm projector no longer works, I was curious if anyone >>has had old movies converted to video and the approximate >>cost. I have about 20 rolls of film I would like to convert. >>One of them was taken by a crew member on a Reading freight >>pulled by a GP7 in the late 1950s. >>I shows what it is like riding in the caboose and some >>switching. Any help and info would be appreciated. >> >>Nick Kulp -- best dwp ...the net of a million lies... Vernor Vinge There are Many Web Sites which Say Many Things. -me ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:26:12 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: Film to video/dvd/etc (Re: [PRR] semi-off topic Info >I have had it done. There are multiple ways. >I did film-video, I disrecall the cost. > services will be listed in yellow pages, > and its NOT 'very expensive'. The results were > good. (Your Milage May Vary.) > >But: > Videotape has inherently less resolution than > film. Information will be lost. > > Various digital formats (DVD, etc) can capture all > the resolution on the original 8/super8. > Costs will be higher. > > ANY process that goes 'via' videotape will > lose 'info' that is on the original film. And video tape does "decay"...our 18 year old wedding video is almost unviewable at this point...and thats not for overuse Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: Film to video/dvd/etc (Re: [PRR] semi-off topic Info Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:48:52 -0500 And then there was the story about the guy who erased his wedding tape by taping the Super Bowl Game over top!!!!!!!!!! WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bruce F. Smith Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:26 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: Film to video/dvd/etc (Re: [PRR] semi-off topic Info needed ) >I have had it done. There are multiple ways. >I did film-video, I disrecall the cost. > services will be listed in yellow pages, > and its NOT 'very expensive'. The results were > good. (Your Milage May Vary.) > >But: > Videotape has inherently less resolution than > film. Information will be lost. > > Various digital formats (DVD, etc) can capture all > the resolution on the original 8/super8. > Costs will be higher. > > ANY process that goes 'via' videotape will > lose 'info' that is on the original film. And video tape does "decay"...our 18 year old wedding video is almost unviewable at this point...and thats not for overuse Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:34:21 EST Subject: [PRR] Passenger Car Site --part1_173.16834962.2b94c1ed_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben, Weldon and List, For those who did not have the site come up this is the link: http://b= ellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmlaboda/PassIndexes.htm=A0=20 Enjoy! Evan --part1_173.16834962.2b94c1ed_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben, Weldon and List,

   For those who did not have the site come up this is the link:
   http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmlaboda/PassIndexes.htm=A0

Enjoy!

Evan
 --part1_173.16834962.2b94c1ed_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:21:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR Builders Plate Lists, I am sure many seen that PRR B6s Builders Plate that was on ebay. Anyone here a bidder and happen to know what the deal is? Auction over. Bid history shows: Seller not replying to bidders questions, bidders backing out, Seller cancelling bdders and ending auction early. Sounds fishy to me. Fake? Stolen? Any honest hardware sellers anymore or is it just coincidence eBay is a dumping ground for these items.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KNesbitt@penncro.com Subject: [PRR] Fiar of the Iron Horse cancelled Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:32:21 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E19A.1561CF60 Content-Type: text/plain This is a bummer Friday, February 28, 2003 Breaking news from Trains.com and the TRAINS Magazine Newswire http://www.trains.com =|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|= The Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Museum announced today it will cancel this summer's Fair of the Iron Horse 175, Festival of Trains. The decision came after assessing damage to the museum's roundhouse, caused by a severe winter storm two weeks ago. Read the full story on the event and see exclusive photos of the damage to the roundhouse by clicking here: http://list.trains.com/UM/T.ASP?A11.53.160.1.77528 Kenny ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E19A.1561CF60 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fiar of the Iron Horse cancelled

This is a = bummer

Friday, February 28, = 2003
Breaking news from = Trains.com and the TRAINS Magazine Newswire http://www.trains.com

=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D= |=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D=

The Baltimore & = Ohio Railroad Museum announced today it will cancel this summer's Fair = of the Iron Horse 175, Festival of Trains. The decision came after = assessing damage to the museum's roundhouse, caused by a severe winter = storm two weeks ago. Read the full story on the event and see exclusive = photos of the damage to the roundhouse by clicking here:

http://list.trains.com/UM/T.ASP?A11.53.160.1.77528=


Kenny

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E19A.1561CF60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:21:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR Builders Plate Lists, I am sure many seen that PRR B6s Builders Plate that was on ebay. Anyone here a bidder and happen to know what the deal is? Auction over. Bid history shows: Seller not replying to bidders questions, bidders backing out, Seller cancelling bdders and ending auction early. Sounds fishy to me. Fake? Stolen? Any honest hardware sellers anymore or is it just coincidence eBay is a dumping ground for these items.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:42:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] MoPac cars in Pennsy train On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the picture on the top of the page. The 8th car back from the locomotives appears to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car. Also, check out the third car back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it may just be the light. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:42:52 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] MoPac cars in Pennsy train --0-565537020-1046716972=:36699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the picture on the top of the page. The 8th car back from the locomotives appears to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car. Also, check out the third car back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it may just be the light. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-565537020-1046716972=:36699 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the picture on the top of the page.  The 8th car back from the locomotives appears to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car.  Also, check out the third car back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it may just be the light.  Ron


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Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-565537020-1046716972=:36699-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:14:34 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] K4s details --0-1090085135-1046718874=:90381 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Question concerning two items on K4s. Go to Gary Mittner's complete K4 photo roster at http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and bring up image of locomotive 5371. See where the running boards have been altered just behind the cylinders in order to form a sort of "box". What is the thing below the running board in the box? Also, what is the thing sticking out from the front of the cylinder below the center line of the piston that looks sort of like a piece of channel on the end of a rod? What was the function of both items? There is a clearer picture of a K4 with the same items on the old Bowser K4 instruction sheet, loco number 5418, but the photo Gary has of this loco does not clearly show the items in question. Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1090085135-1046718874=:90381 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Question concerning two items on K4s.  Go to Gary Mittner's complete K4 photo roster at http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and bring up image of locomotive 5371.  See where the running boards have been altered just behind the cylinders in order to form a  sort of "box".  What is the thing below the running board in the box?  Also, what is the thing sticking out from the front of the cylinder below the center line of the piston that looks sort of like a piece of channel on the end of a rod?  What was the function of both items?  There is a clearer picture of a K4 with the same items on the old Bowser K4 instruction sheet, loco number 5418, but the photo Gary has of this loco does not clearly show the items in question.  Thanks.  Ron


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Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1090085135-1046718874=:90381-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hipes" Subject: Re: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 19:54:18 +0000 As Jim Panza said in his posting, PXEN originated at IHB's Blue Island Yard off a hot connection from the CNW/UP. (CNW #295 maybe??…the train originated in North Platte) I don't have the information in front of me but believe the "Perishable Xpress" symbol originated in either '78 or '79. PXEN replaced either IHEN-A or IHEN-B. Likewise, there was a PXSE, which replaced the A or B section of IHSE. So in theory, I think its accurate to say PXEN was a stepchild of CG-2 or CG-8. These trains were the hottest freights on the railroad behind the Mail and TV trains after they were established. I remember an operator friend at Lima NS Tower getting some time off because he stabbed PXEN for a B&O. I also remember watching PXEN and Amtrak #40 roll side by side out of Crestline one fall night in 1980. PXEN morphed into PXCA during the 82 recession. I'll guess this corresponds with the general downgrading of Enola during the same time period. I'll have to go home and check my records but as traffic recovered from the recession in '83 or '84, PXCA became PXPI. And again, as Jim Panza wrote, by this time, the train was just another freight. Not sure when PXPI became PRPI out of Proviso. Again will have to check. On a side note, PXSE seemed to remain "hotter" longer than its PRR side counterpart. Could be the Hunts Point perishables were greater in volume and was maybe a more stable and consistent source of traffic. I also think the PXSE symbol lasted longer than the PXPI but would have to check. Steve Hipes Columbus OH > >I remember the PXEN passing through Altoona in the late afternoon and at >that time there was a mechanic from Merchants Despatch who monitored the >train. The PX was the abbreviation for Perishable Express. With the >volume of UPFE reefers, I suspect that it originated at Proviso Yard on >what was then C&NW. Does anyone have a copy of the book "Conrail >Commodities" that can confirm this? Was this the stepchild of CG-8 or >CG-2? > ----- Original Message ----- > > Gentlemen, > > I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR Arranged >Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used > xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard > xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ > xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in >the Conrail era). > > However, I lack documentation that tells me: > 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in the >Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH >(Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF >Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW >Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator >Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). > > 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? > > The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because >Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the >Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", allowing >the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via >Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains dispatched >from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special... > > > > Rick Tipton > Louisville KY > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:14:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Question concerning two items on K4s. Go to Gary Mittner's complete K4 photo roster at http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and bring up image of locomotive 5371. See where the running boards have been altered just behind the cylinders in order to form a sort of "box". What is the thing below the running board in the box? Also, what is the thing sticking out from the front of the cylinder below the center line of the piston that looks sort of like a piece of channel on the end of a rod? What was the function of both items? There is a clearer picture of a K4 with the same items on the old Bowser K4 instruction sheet, loco number 5418, but the photo Gary has of this loco does not clearly show the items in question. Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:38:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Ron, Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside the walkway "box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name refers. It mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts by pumping oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would think. These were applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's. The other item on the Cylinder head you refer to could be the remnants of the extended piston rod housing. These housings extended forward quite a bit. This was to help guide the Piston in the cylinder. One would assume it kept the piston sleeves from wearing unevenly by making sure the Piston went in and out freely? Not sure. They rid of those after some years of service, so must not been needed after all. It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have placed on the website. This K4s had a L1 type Air tank on the pilot. This was not common K4 practice. Don't use this K4 as a guide for modeling unless you want an odd ball version. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/abvVKB/pEZFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:38:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Ron, Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside the walkway "box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name refers. It mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts by pumping oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would think. These were applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's. The other item on the Cylinder head you refer to could be the remnants of the extended piston rod housing. These housings extended forward quite a bit. This was to help guide the Piston in the cylinder. One would assume it kept the piston sleeves from wearing unevenly by making sure the Piston went in and out freely? Not sure. They rid of those after some years of service, so must not been needed after all. It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have placed on the website. This K4s had a L1 type Air tank on the pilot. This was not common K4 practice. Don't use this K4 as a guide for modeling unless you want an odd ball version. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:41:27 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point >>===== Original Message From Jerry Britton >Last month MR previewed this months issue, promising drawings of a "Great >Lakes Coal Pier". I speculated at the time that it "could" be the PRR's >Sodus Point pier. > >My copy arrived today. It is indeed the PRR's coal pier at Sodus Point! > I've had a chance to look over the article and it certainly is good news for Elmira (and Sodus) Branch fans... On the plus side, there are the drawings. The scale is pretty small (1/696, or 1/8 HO scale), but the drawings cover the whole pier. I'm hoping that MR has larger size drawings on the web site soon (The March issue is still listed there, but the article notes that there will be more photos and photos of a model on the web site). In addition, there is the best photo of the loading chutes I've seen (still not perfect but the best yet). I had forgotten that the car shakers were new in 1956, and the description of operations would be essential to anyone modeling the dock. On the minus side, the article was too short! It needed more space to cover the protoype better. For example, completely missing was any mention of the metal sheeting between sections to slow the spread of fire. Also the drawings are very small...very very hard to work with. Finally, one real error crept in, in spite of the contribution of a number of learned spfs...The article claims that the pier was on the Elmira Branch. IIRC, it was on the Sodus Branch (or was that the Sodus Point Branch?), not the Elmira Branch. Anyhoo, I've long reccomended the Elmira Branch/Sodus Point area as perfect PRR territory to model. With this article, N-scale H21 hoppers, N5 and N5c cabins, sharks, F's, PAs, FAs, you're well on your way. All you need now is an inexpensive, modern, good running I1sa!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:55:37 +0000 The amazing thing to me was that the coal bins themselves were so small and the comment that cars were pushed 6 at a time onto the pier. I guess 3% grades even taxed the I-1's used. Plus the fact that there were only 4 or 6 bins and chutes per side meant that the ship had to be constantly relocated until fully loaded. Yet I didn't see any evidence of a car (read ship) puller to move it around. I'll bet ship captains hated the place since it said it took up to 24 hours to load one (if you can trust MR). > >>===== Original Message From Jerry Britton > > >Last month MR previewed this months issue, promising drawings of a "Great > >Lakes Coal Pier". I speculated at the time that it "could" be the PRR's > >Sodus Point pier. > > > >My copy arrived today. It is indeed the PRR's coal pier at Sodus Point! > > > > I've had a chance to look over the article and it certainly is good news > for Elmira (and Sodus) Branch fans... > > On the plus side, there are the drawings. The scale is pretty small > (1/696, or 1/8 HO scale), but the drawings cover the whole pier. I'm > hoping that MR has larger size drawings on the web site soon (The March > issue is still listed there, but the article notes that there will be more > photos and photos of a model on the web site). In addition, there is the > best photo of the loading chutes I've seen (still not perfect but the best > yet). I had forgotten that the car shakers were new in 1956, and the > description of operations would be essential to anyone modeling the dock. > > On the minus side, the article was too short! It needed more space to > cover the protoype better. For example, completely missing was any mention > of the metal sheeting between sections to slow the spread of fire. Also > the drawings are very small...very very hard to work with. Finally, one > real error crept in, in spite of the contribution of a number of learned > spfs...The article claims that the pier was on the Elmira Branch. IIRC, it > was on the Sodus Branch (or was that the Sodus Point Branch?), not the > Elmira Branch. > > Anyhoo, I've long reccomended the Elmira Branch/Sodus Point area as perfect > PRR territory to model. With this article, N-scale H21 hoppers, N5 and N5c > cabins, sharks, F's, PAs, FAs, you're well on your way. All you need now > is an inexpensive, modern, good running I1sa!! > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 15:55:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point From: Jerry Britton On 3/3/03 3:41 PM, Bruce F. Smith (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > The article claims that the pier was on the Elmira Branch. IIRC, it > was on the Sodus Branch (or was that the Sodus Point Branch?), not the > Elmira Branch. Some "gray area" terminology here... I am recollecting from Gunnarson's "History of the Northern Central Railway": As the NCR built north from Baltimore, it did so under many subsidiary railroads it created. Once the line got above Harrisburg, there was a stretch where they had trackage rights on the P&E. Then the Elmira section, over the Erie near Elmira, and on to what you are referring to which was called the Sodus Bay and Southern. The late John Keel wrote a history of the line for the Hobo's Guide to the Pennsy on the Keystone Crossings site. You can view it at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/guide/soduspt.html In later years, the naming got kind of sketchy and many considered the Elmira Branch the entire distance from Williamsport to Sodus Point. One thing is for sure, it was all the Northern Central Railway. The NCRy was "controlled" by the PRR early on, but wasn't financially "absorbed" until the 19-teens, if I recall. Following this, the lines north of Harrisburg took on their own names and the "Northern Central Branch" was the line from Wago Junction south to Baltimore only. The stretch from Wago Junction to Harrisburg was called the "York Haven Line" as it also included two tracks of the Atglen & Susquehanna "Low Grade" line. By the way, without the Northern Central Railway, there would have been no PRR connection into Washington DC. It was the NCR's tracks that the PRR used from Baltimore to Washington. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 13:57:03 -0700 Hey Gary, Wasn't that 5371 with the L1s tank on the pilot beam and not 5471 (which was one of the last K4s locomotives left)? Oops! Otherwise, your warning is right on. 5371 was an oddball... Regards, Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:38:05 -0500 (EST) mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) wrote: > It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have > placed on the > website. This K4s had a L1 type Air tank on the pilot. > This was not > common K4 practice. Don't use this K4 as a guide for > modeling unless you > want an odd ball version. .....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical > Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:00:56 -0700 One more item, I believe tha these mechanical lubricators were applied in the late 1920's ( I seem to remember a A. W. Johnson photo of (guess which engine...yup, 5471 at Engelwood) on The Broadway (I can tell since it's got the Lines West train sign on the smokebox front) showing the lubricator. IIRC, it was from the Aug '62 issue of TRAINS (the one with the Durbin article on The Broadway). Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:38:05 -0500 (EST) mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) wrote: > Ron, > > Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside > the walkway > "box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name > refers. It > mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts > by pumping > oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would > think. These were > applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:20:39 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point >The amazing thing to me was that the coal bins themselves were so small >and the >comment that cars were pushed 6 at a time onto the pier. I guess 3% grades >even taxed the I-1's used. Plus the fact that there were only 4 or 6 bins >and >chutes per side meant that the ship had to be constantly relocated until >fully >loaded. Yet I didn't see any evidence of a car (read ship) puller to move it >around. I'll bet ship captains hated the place since it said it took up >to 24 >hours to load one (if you can trust MR). Oh yeah, another point that Caloroso made in his book that wasn't in the article...most of the coal went about 30 miles down the lake to Oswego, and the coal ships were on that short run with some frequency (like once a day, IIRC). I believe that much of the duty of moving the colliers was handled by a steam tug based in Sodus Point. In fact, the I1s were probably overkill, but were the available power, and were needed to move the much longer cuts in the yards. Again, working from memory, 2-8-0s also held that assignment with no problem. In addition, the turntable at Sodus point had to be elongated to accomodate the I1s, and it was done by overhnaging the rails, as seen in the Elmira Branch book! Happy Rials Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:19:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Hi Bill, Yep, you caught my typo. 5371 it is. I could say "you seen one K4, you seen them all"!!! Not the case however. Its the other way around, try to find 2 K4's alike .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:26:42 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details --0-1449590923-1046726802=:67222 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks to Marvin and Gary. Actually, the only reason I picked 5471 is that I started scanning through the pictures looking for a left side of a K4 that clearly showed both of the features I was concerned with---didn't really even look at the rest of the locomotive. As far as the "things" on the cylinder heads, I have seen these also on photos of I-1s. On some of the photos I have seen that are more clear, there appears to be an actual hole in the cylinder head and this rod with the channel on the end protrudes out from the hole. Most of the K4s photos on your site taken during the 30's show this feature--on the photos taken post war some locos have it, some don't. And your photo of K29 shows both an extended piston rod and seems to show this device also. Still not sure what it is or its function. By the way, one of the reasons I'm interested in this is that I'm working on an old Bowser K-4 that I've had put away for 25 years or so. I wasn't really satisfied with the running boards cast on to the cylinder block so I cut those off last night. Now, since I've already attacked the cylinder block I'm thinking about fabricating these details also, and since I have to build new running boards anyhow, may select one that has the mechanical lubricator. Ron mittner@webtv.net wrote: Ron, Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside the walkway "box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name refers. It mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts by pumping oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would think. These were applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's. The other item on the Cylinder head you refer to could be the remnants of the extended piston rod housing. These housings extended forward quite a bit. This was to help guide the Piston in the cylinder. One would assume it kept the piston sleeves from wearing unevenly by making sure the Piston went in and out freely? Not sure. They rid of those after some years of service, so must not been needed after all. It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have placed on the website. This K4s had a L1 type Air tank on the pilot. This was not common K4 practice. Don't use this K4 as a guide for modeling unless you want an odd ball version. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1449590923-1046726802=:67222 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Thanks to Marvin and Gary.  Actually, the only reason I picked 5471 is that I started scanning through the pictures looking for a left side of a K4 that clearly showed both of the features I was concerned with---didn't really even look at the rest of the locomotive.  As far as the "things" on the cylinder heads, I have seen these also on photos of I-1s.  On some of the photos I have seen that are more clear, there appears to be an actual hole in the cylinder head and this rod with the channel on the end protrudes out from the hole.

Most of the K4s photos on your site taken during the 30's show this feature--on the photos taken post war some locos have it, some don't.  And your photo of K29 shows both an extended piston rod and seems to show this device also.  Still not sure what it is or its function. 

By the way, one of the reasons I'm interested in this is that I'm working on an old Bowser K-4 that I've had put away for 25 years or so.  I wasn't really satisfied with the running boards cast on to the cylinder block so I cut those off last night.  Now, since I've already attacked the cylinder block I'm thinking about fabricating these details also, and since I have to build new running boards anyhow, may select one that has the mechanical lubricator.  Ron 

 mittner@webtv.net wrote:

Ron,

    Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside the walkway
"box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name refers. It
mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts by pumping
oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would think. These were
applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's.
    The other item on the Cylinder head you refer to could be the
remnants of the extended piston rod housing. These housings extended
forward quite a bit. This was to help guide the Piston in the cylinder.
One would assume it kept the piston sleeves from wearing unevenly by
making sure the Piston went in and out freely? Not sure. They rid of
those after some years of service, so must not been needed after all.
    It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have placed on the
website. This
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

"PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage.

To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to =
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Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1449590923-1046726802=:67222-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:54:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] K4-s --0-733504891-1046728494=:50399 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Now I'm making the same typo, I meant, 5371, not 5471. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-733504891-1046728494=:50399 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Now I'm making the same typo, I meant, 5371, not 5471.  Ron


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-733504891-1046728494=:50399-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:25:54 -0500 From: ALGUCKES@aol.com Subject: [PRR] film and video tape I am planning on transferring film to tape professionally and then digitizing it via my computer and storing it on DVDs. It can also easily be edited after it is digitized. Where I live it is not inexpensive (at least from my perspective) to transfer film to video tape - but it sure will be convenient once it is on DVD. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger Car Site Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:29:35 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2E1AA.75D1F860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Evan: Thanks !!! What a great site, WOW !!! All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:34 AM Subject: [PRR] Passenger Car Site Ben, Weldon and List, For those who did not have the site come up this is the link: http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmlaboda/PassIndexes.htm =20 Enjoy! Evan ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2E1AA.75D1F860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Evan:   = Thanks !!! =20 What a great site, WOW !!!
 
All the best to you and yours      =20 Weldon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 = 9:34=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Passenger Car = Site

Ben, Weldon and List,

   For = those who did=20 not have the site come up this is the link:

   http://bell= southpwp.net/j/m/jmlaboda/PassIndexes.htm =20 =

Enjoy!

Evan
 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2E1AA.75D1F860-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Phil Paskos" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:35:58 -0500 The primary purpose of those mechanical lubricators was to pump steam oil into the cylinders. Sort of like mixing oil into a 2 cycle engine. The only difference is the oil is soluble in steam. (steam oil) Some engines had other lubricators to lubricate the steam pumps too. Phil > Ron, > > Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside the walkway > "box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name refers. It > mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts by pumping > oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would think. These were > applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's. > The other item on the Cylinder head you refer to could be the > remnants of the extended piston rod housing. These housings extended > forward quite a bit. This was to help guide the Piston in the cylinder. > One would assume it kept the piston sleeves from wearing unevenly by > making sure the Piston went in and out freely? Not sure. They rid of > those after some years of service, so must not been needed after all. > It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have placed on the > website. This K4s had a L1 type Air tank on the pilot. This was not > common K4 practice. Don't use this K4 as a guide for modeling unless you > want an odd ball version. .....Gary > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 19:51:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3129565919_28917299 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/3/03 5:09 PM, "James Kelling" wrote: > Actually, the PRR got into Washington, DC via the B&P, which had the righ= ts to > build south from Baltimore. The PRR acquired the B&P in the late 19th > century, I believe, and thus competed with the B&O for DC traffic from th= e > north. The NC did not extend into DC. >=20 We=B9re both right... The B&P (Baltimore & Potomac) was chartered by the Maryland legislature in 1853. However, they couldn=B9t raise the funding and construction did not start as planned. They tried to get funding through the B&O but were turned down. In 1861 the B&P was purchased by George W. Cass, a former director of the PRR. Then in 1867 the =B3true=B2 ownership was revealed in that the Norther= n Central and the PRR had both ionvested $400k and construction began. Part of the charter required that the main line could not go into Washington, only branch lines of 35 miles or less. So they designed the mai= n to go to Pope=B9s Creek, which made it pass within 35 miles of Washington. This opened the door for the design of a =B3branch=B2 line into Washington. There=B9s much more to the story, but that=B9s what books are for! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3129565919_28917299 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point On 3/3/03 5:09 PM, "James Kelling" <james= .kelling@nara.gov> wrote:

Actually, the PRR go= t into Washington, DC via the B&P, which had the rights to build south f= rom Baltimore.  The PRR acquired the B&P in the late 19th century, = I believe, and thus competed with the B&O for DC traffic from the north.=  The NC did not extend into DC.


We’re both right...

The B&P (Baltimore & Potomac) was chartered by the Maryland legisla= ture in 1853. However, they couldn’t raise the funding and constructio= n did not start as planned. They tried to get funding through the B&O bu= t were turned down. In 1861 the B&P was purchased by George W. Cass, a f= ormer director of the PRR. Then in 1867 the “true” ownership was= revealed in that the Northern Central and the PRR had both ionvested $400k = and construction began.

Part of the charter required that the main line could not go into Washingto= n, only branch lines of 35 miles or less. So they designed the main to go to= Pope’s Creek, which made it pass within 35 miles of Washington. This = opened the door for the design of a “branch” line into Washingto= n.

There’s much more to the story, but that’s what books are for!<= BR> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com  &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are
providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit
our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------
 --B_3129565919_28917299-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:19:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Hi Bill, Yep, you caught my typo. 5371 it is. I could say "you seen one K4, you seen them all"!!! Not the case however. Its the other way around, try to find 2 K4's alike .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:54:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] K4-s Now I'm making the same typo, I meant, 5371, not 5471. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:26:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Thanks to Marvin and Gary. Actually, the only reason I picked 5471 is that I started scanning through the pictures looking for a left side of a K4 that clearly showed both of the features I was concerned with---didn't really even look at the rest of the locomotive. As far as the "things" on the cylinder heads, I have seen these also on photos of I-1s. On some of the photos I have seen that are more clear, there appears to be an actual hole in the cylinder head and this rod with the channel on the end protrudes out from the hole. Most of the K4s photos on your site taken during the 30's show this feature--on the photos taken post war some locos have it, some don't. And your photo of K29 shows both an extended piston rod and seems to show this device also. Still not sure what it is or its function. By the way, one of the reasons I'm interested in this is that I'm working on an old Bowser K-4 that I've had put away for 25 years or so. I wasn't really satisfied with the running boards cast on to the cylinder block so I cut those off last night. Now, since I've already attacked the cylinder block I'm thinking about fabricating these details also, and since I have to build new running boards anyhow, may select one that has the mechanical lubricator. Ron "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:51:32 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2E1C6.AC5DD540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus PointJerry and James, Yep, there is more involved. In 1867, the PRR did not go to Baltimore. = The Philadelphia, Wilmington & Baltimore, a PRR subsidiary, operated to = President Street Station in downtown Baltimore and connected via B&O = trackage in Pratt St. to access the capital. The Union Railroad was = built to connect the PW&B with the NC at the site of Calvert St Station = and B&P at the site of Union (Penn) Station but AFAIK it was not = completed until 1871. PRR and WM got into a pi**fight over access to industries served by the = Union Railroad in 1966 and I had to wade through all the 19th century = documentation. All the agreements, charters, etc., were all in beautiful = penmanship as the typewriter had not yet been invented! All this was = stored in the attic of Penn Station, Batlimore. I wonder where it is = now?=20 Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jerry Britton=20 To: PRR-Talk=20 Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point On 3/3/03 5:09 PM, "James Kelling" wrote: Actually, the PRR got into Washington, DC via the B&P, which had the = rights to build south from Baltimore. The PRR acquired the B&P in the = late 19th century, I believe, and thus competed with the B&O for DC = traffic from the north. The NC did not extend into DC. We're both right... The B&P (Baltimore & Potomac) was chartered by the Maryland = legislature in 1853. However, they couldn't raise the funding and = construction did not start as planned. They tried to get funding through = the B&O but were turned down. In 1861 the B&P was purchased by George W. = Cass, a former director of the PRR. Then in 1867 the "true" ownership = was revealed in that the Northern Central and the PRR had both ionvested = $400k and construction began. Part of the charter required that the main line could not go into = Washington, only branch lines of 35 miles or less. So they designed the = main to go to Pope's Creek, which made it pass within 35 miles of = Washington. This opened the door for the design of a "branch" line into = Washington. There's much more to the story, but that's what books are for! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of=20 Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana=20 products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings",=20 the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are=20 providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit=20 our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2E1C6.AC5DD540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point
Jerry and James,
 
Yep, there is more involved. In 1867, the PRR did = not go to=20 Baltimore. The Philadelphia, Wilmington & Baltimore, a PRR = subsidiary,=20 operated to President Street Station in downtown Baltimore and connected = via=20 B&O trackage in Pratt St. to access the capital. The Union = Railroad was=20 built to connect the PW&B with the NC at the site of Calvert St = Station and=20 B&P at the site of Union (Penn) Station but AFAIK it was not = completed until=20 1871.
 
PRR and WM got into a pi**fight over access to = industries=20 served by the Union Railroad in 1966 and I had to wade through all the = 19th=20 century documentation. All the agreements, charters, etc., were all in = beautiful=20 penmanship as the typewriter had not yet been invented! All this was = stored in=20 the attic of Penn Station, Batlimore. I wonder where it is=20 now? 
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jerry = Britton=20
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 = 7:51=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR = Features Sodus=20 Point

On 3/3/03 5:09 PM, "James Kelling" = <james.kelling@nara.gov>=20 wrote:
Actually, the PRR got = into=20 Washington, DC via the B&P, which had the rights to build south = from=20 Baltimore.  The PRR acquired the B&P in the late 19th = century, I=20 believe, and thus competed with the B&O for DC traffic from the = north.=20  The NC did not extend into = DC.


We=92re both right...

The B&P (Baltimore = &=20 Potomac) was chartered by the Maryland legislature in 1853. However, = they=20 couldn=92t raise the funding and construction did not start as = planned. They=20 tried to get funding through the B&O but were turned down. In 1861 = the=20 B&P was purchased by George W. Cass, a former director of the PRR. = Then in=20 1867 the =93true=94 ownership was revealed in that the Northern = Central and the=20 PRR had both ionvested $400k and construction began.

Part of = the=20 charter required that the main line could not go into Washington, only = branch=20 lines of 35 miles or less. So they designed the main to go to Pope=92s = Creek,=20 which made it pass within 35 miles of Washington. This opened the door = for the=20 design of a =93branch=94 line into Washington.

There=92s much = more to the=20 story, but that=92s what books are=20 = for!
-----------------------------------------------------------------= ----
Jerry=20 Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com=20     Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise = Service", a=20 division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller = of=20 model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the = web=20 site "Keystone Crossings",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the = mailing lists=20 "PRR-Talk", "Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase = through=20 "MS", you are
providing financial support to these Internet = endeavors.=20 Please visit
our eCommerce web site at=20 = http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank=20 = you!-----------------------------
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2E1C6.AC5DD540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 22:05:05 -0500 From: jconsoli@paonline.com Subject: Re: [PRR] CABOOSE HANDRAIL PAINTING Dick, In the December 1974 KEYSTONE is the paint diagram D-80499 for classes N5, N5a, N5b & N5d. The revision you are looking for is: "Specification for painting handholds Chrome-Yellow at corners of car has been added. 1-3-1949" Jack Consoli Richard Poole wrote: > PRR TALK, > > Can anyone tell me when the PRR started to paint the hand-rails & grab-irons YELLOW on their N-5b cabins? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 19:26:19 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point --- Jerry Britton wrote: > The NCRy was "controlled" by the PRR early on, but wasn't > financially > "absorbed" until the 19-teens, if I recall. Valuation date for the NCRy was June 30, 1918, and as of that date it was still a leased line. See: http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Corphist/ncr.html Schotter mentions the lease (1914), but says nothing about NCRy being assimilated ("Resistance is futile...") up to 1926. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:15:07 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Elmira Br., Sodus Bay Br. According to the 1945 CT1000 at: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/downloads/ct1000e_1945.pdf the Elmira and Williamsport RR went from Williamsport to Elmira (imagine that). 74.6 miles from Williamsport, it connected to the Erie. 5.2 miles along the Erie, there was a connection to the Elmira and Lake Ontario RR. The E&LO went through Watkins, Penn Yan, and Stanley to Canandaigua, where it ended, 64.3 miles from the connection with the Erie at Chemung Jct. All of the foregoing is on pages 186-189, headed "Williamsport Division Elmira Branch" At Stanley the Sodus Bay Branch connects to the Elmira Branch. That connection is 132.3 miles from Williamsport or 52.5 miles from Chemung Jct. It's 33.8 miles from Stanley to Sodus Point. Pages 190-191 indicate that the Sodus Bay Br. is also part of the Elmira and Lake Ontario RR. So, properly speaking, in 1945 the coal dock was served by the Sodus Bay Branch. Of course, if you were in Williamsport or Altoona, intending to go to the dock, you would have to travel many miles on the Elmira Branch in order to get there. What may have happened after 1945 I know not. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 22:21:17 -0500 I have a copy of the track chart. The cover states Track Chart, PRR, Central Region, Northern Division, Susquehanna District, Elmira Branch, Sodus Secondary, Marion Track, Office of the District Engineer, Williamsport, PA The Sodus Bay Secondary starts at Stanley, NY and runs to Sodus Point. The date of the chart is unreadable. I also have a nice picture of an engine pushing coal cars up onto the pier. It looks like a 2-10-0 buy I can't tell for sure. It is a jpg file titled Sodus Point by Jim Shaughnessy. I don't remember where I got it. Roy Breon Pittsford NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 01:27:29 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Br., Sodus Bay Br. On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, robert netzlof wrote: > According to the 1945 CT1000 at: > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/downloads/ct1000e_1945.pdf > > the Elmira and Williamsport RR went from Williamsport to Elmira > (imagine that). > > 74.6 miles from Williamsport, it connected to the Erie. 74.6 miles, or milepost 74.6? ;-) seriously, the story about 2 mileposts being skipped that was in caloroso's book agrees with track charts. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:00:34 -0500 I personally was there (I believe it was in the fall of 1966) when they loaded the last boat from the pier. I really wondered if the damned thing was going to make it across the pond. It really looked like it was on its last legs. Wasn't a very large scow either as lake boats went. WDV PS We used a couple of RS-11s up there to service the coal pier. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bruce F. Smith Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:21 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point >The amazing thing to me was that the coal bins themselves were so small >and the comment that cars were pushed 6 at a time onto the pier. I >guess 3% grades even taxed the I-1's used. Plus the fact that there >were only 4 or 6 bins and >chutes per side meant that the ship had to be constantly relocated until >fully >loaded. Yet I didn't see any evidence of a car (read ship) puller to move it >around. I'll bet ship captains hated the place since it said it took up >to 24 >hours to load one (if you can trust MR). Oh yeah, another point that Caloroso made in his book that wasn't in the article...most of the coal went about 30 miles down the lake to Oswego, and the coal ships were on that short run with some frequency (like once a day, IIRC). I believe that much of the duty of moving the colliers was handled by a steam tug based in Sodus Point. In fact, the I1s were probably overkill, but were the available power, and were needed to move the much longer cuts in the yards. Again, working from memory, 2-8-0s also held that assignment with no problem. In addition, the turntable at Sodus point had to be elongated to accomodate the I1s, and it was done by overhnaging the rails, as seen in the Elmira Branch book! Happy Rials Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:56:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Ice House at Steam Loco Terminal From: Jerry Britton In reviewing the valuation maps of the Cresson steam locomotive terminal, updated to 1954, there are two small buildings labeled "Ice Ho". I'm interpreting that to be "ice house". Am I wrong here? If I am correct, what was the role of an ice house at a steam locomotive terminal? Was it just to cool hot locos so they could be worked on quicker? Seems to me that would be harder on the metal, wouldn't it? Always looking for photos of the Cresson steam facility, so if you know of any -- other than those in Triumph I -- please let me know! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:10:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Ice House at Steam Loco Terminal From: Jerry Britton On 3/4/03 10:56 AM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > In reviewing the valuation maps of the Cresson steam locomotive terminal, > updated to 1954, there are two small buildings labeled "Ice Ho". I'm > interpreting that to be "ice house". Am I wrong here? > > If I am correct, what was the role of an ice house at a steam locomotive > terminal? Was it just to cool hot locos so they could be worked on quicker? > Seems to me that would be harder on the metal, wouldn't it? > Wow, just occurred to me, if it is "ice house", then I'll have to send reefers in to supply ice, huh? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Ice House at Steam Loco Terminal Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 16:10:31 +0000 I believe the ice house in question was to cool the drinking water supply for the crews. It was the fireman's duty to make sure the drinking water supply was maintained while servicing the locomotive. > In reviewing the valuation maps of the Cresson steam locomotive terminal, > updated to 1954, there are two small buildings labeled "Ice Ho". I'm > interpreting that to be "ice house". Am I wrong here? > > If I am correct, what was the role of an ice house at a steam locomotive > terminal? Was it just to cool hot locos so they could be worked on quicker? > Seems to me that would be harder on the metal, wouldn't it? > > Always looking for photos of the Cresson steam facility, so if you know of > any -- other than those in Triumph I -- please let me know! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 08:14:01 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Br., Sodus Bay Br. --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, robert netzlof wrote: > > > According to the 1945 CT1000 > > 74.6 miles, or milepost 74.6? ;-) Generally speaking, the mileages shown in the CT1000's aren't mileposts. For example, the Pittsburgh Div. mileages in the CT1000 are from a zero at the Altoona Passenger Station. Mileposts between Altoona and Pittsburgh are based on a zero somewhere (and don't start that again) in Philadelphia. Don't know what the story is on the Elmira Branch and its branches. Since there were 2 railroads, (E&W, E&LO) I suppose there might be E&W mileposts with a zero at Williamport or Elmira, and E&LO mileposts with a zero at Chemung Jct. The CT1000 mileage zero is at Williamsport. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Ice House at Steam Loco Terminal Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:30:50 -0500 The ice house supplied ice to the Cabin Car refrigerators and the locomotive crews' ice chests for cold drinking water. We still do that for the crews to this day even though the locos and coaches have mechanical refrigerators on board. WDV P.S. In 1954 there were still lots of ice activated P-70s in circulation on the PRR, but not at Cresson. That was another use for the ice housii. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:10 AM To: Jerry Britton; PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Ice House at Steam Loco Terminal On 3/4/03 10:56 AM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > In reviewing the valuation maps of the Cresson steam locomotive > terminal, updated to 1954, there are two small buildings labeled "Ice > Ho". I'm interpreting that to be "ice house". Am I wrong here? > > If I am correct, what was the role of an ice house at a steam > locomotive terminal? Was it just to cool hot locos so they could be > worked on quicker? Seems to me that would be harder on the metal, > wouldn't it? > Wow, just occurred to me, if it is "ice house", then I'll have to send reefers in to supply ice, huh? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:31:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] P&L Dock Co. Lists, Anyone have info as to where and who was the "P&L Dock Company". Not sure if it is RR or Trucking or ? related I am assuming Rail related in the ports of Lake Erie somewhere but can find nothing via the internet. Any info would be useful....Thanks....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:31:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] P&L Dock Co. Lists, Anyone have info as to where and who was the "P&L Dock Company". Not sure if it is RR or Trucking or ? related I am assuming Rail related in the ports of Lake Erie somewhere but can find nothing via the internet. Any info would be useful....Thanks....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hipes" Subject: Re: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:02:07 +0000 Here's a folow-up to yesterday's posting on the successors to CG-2 and CG-8, Conrail's PX trains. These trains were Conrail's attempt to regain some of the perishable business lost to trucks in the late 60s and 70s. I don't think the volume of perishable business on a PX train was ever comparable to that on CG-2 or CG-8 (i.e. large blocks of perishable traffic). PXEN was inaugurated in 1978. IHB Blue Island to Enola off a connection from CNW #244 from UP/North Platte. Advertised 6th morning delivery to the east coast from Oakland. As Jim Panza wrote, Philly perishables did quick connect to ENPG for the Philadelphia Fruit Market. PXCA IHB Blue Island to Camden/Pavonia. Replaced PXEN sometime in 1982 after the train was routed off the Fort Wayne Line to the Chicago Line/Cleveland Line routing. The symbol change reflects 1) downgrading of Enola and 2) an attempt (at least on paper) to provide a direct service into Philly for perishables. PXPG IHB Blue Island to Philadelphia-Greenwich. Short-lived replacement of PXCA; operated for a few months in 1984. I recall photographing this train in Altoona during the summer of '84 and remember a couple of days when it carried no perishables. PXPI IHB Blue Island to Conway then CNW Proviso to Conway. East coast perishables connected to PICA or PIOI. PRPI CNW Proviso to Conway. Symbol changed to reflect Proviso relay, fall 1992. PX symbol eliminated on PXSE as well. Steve Hipes Columbus, Ohio > > >As Jim Panza said in his posting, PXEN originated at IHB's Blue Island Yard >off a hot connection from the CNW/UP. (CNW #295 maybe??…the train >originated in North Platte) I don't have the information in front of me >but believe the "Perishable Xpress" symbol originated in either '78 or '79. > PXEN replaced either IHEN-A or IHEN-B. Likewise, there was a PXSE, which >replaced the A or B section of IHSE. So in theory, I think its accurate to >say PXEN was a stepchild of CG-2 or CG-8. > >These trains were the hottest freights on the railroad behind the Mail and >TV trains after they were established. I remember an operator friend at >Lima NS Tower getting some time off because he stabbed PXEN for a B&O. I >also remember watching PXEN and Amtrak #40 roll side by side out of >Crestline one fall night in 1980. > >PXEN morphed into PXCA during the 82 recession. I'll guess this >corresponds with the general downgrading of Enola during the same time >period. I'll have to go home and check my records but as traffic recovered >from the recession in '83 or '84, PXCA became PXPI. And again, as Jim >Panza wrote, by this time, the train was just another freight. Not sure >when PXPI became PRPI out of Proviso. Again will have to check. > >On a side note, PXSE seemed to remain "hotter" longer than its PRR side >counterpart. Could be the Hunts Point perishables were greater in volume >and was maybe a more stable and consistent source of traffic. I also think >the PXSE symbol lasted longer than the PXPI but would have to check. > >Steve Hipes >Columbus OH > > > > > > > > >> >>I remember the PXEN passing through Altoona in the late afternoon and at >>that time there was a mechanic from Merchants Despatch who monitored the >>train. The PX was the abbreviation for Perishable Express. With the >>volume of UPFE reefers, I suspect that it originated at Proviso Yard on >>what was then C&NW. Does anyone have a copy of the book "Conrail >>Commodities" that can confirm this? Was this the stepchild of CG-8 or >>CG-2? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> Gentlemen, >> >> I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR >>Arranged Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used >> xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard >> xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ >> xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in >>the Conrail era). >> >> However, I lack documentation that tells me: >> 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in the >>Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH >>(Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF >>Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW >>Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator >>Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). >> >> 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? >> >> The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because >>Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the >>Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", >>allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via >>Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains dispatched >>from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special... >> >> >> >> Rick Tipton >> Louisville KY >> Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West > > >_________________________________________________________________ >STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:19:43 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] My PRR web sites... Hello All, Both Jerry B andf Bill V have pointed out errors appearing on my PRR web pages. I appear to have suffered a dissappearing directory problem. All of my PRR pages are affected, with most files and URLs having vanished off of the server. I thought it was a server issue (an exploding hard drive last night), but the files have been gone several days, so it may just have been yours truely, somehow deleting an entire directory??? I can only figure it happened when I was forced to work on a PC for a few days, and the evil Bill Gates exacted his revenge! I have the computer geeks (sorry Jerry, nothing personal) working on restoring the files from backup, and I have most of them backed up on my computer as well. Hopefully, all will return to normal within the next few days. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:43:04 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] Heavyweight Pullmans More on heavyweight Pullmans... In the latest MR I noted that IHC is selling passenger cars for $7.99 each. This is confirmed at their web site http://www.ihc-hobby.com. In the past we've noted that the IHC/Rivarossi 12-1 is a plan 3410B car that can be converted to the more common plans 3410, 3410 and 2410. 1) Is there any difference between the Rivarossi 12-1, listing at $26.98 at Walthers, and the "2nd tooling" IHC car? 2) What is the plan/protoype of the 8-1-2 Pullman that they (IHC) offer? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:06:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Black Gold, Black Diamonds From: Jerry Britton Anyone in touch with Eric Hirsimaki, author of the "Black Gold, Black Diamonds" series? I'm wondering where volume three is...the one I really need!!! (on the 1950's.) It's been a few years since Volume Two came out, and I figure we're about due for another fix! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] P&L Dock Co. Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:18:05 -0500 Gary, Are you sure you are not referring to the Pittsburgh & Conneaut Dock Company, which was a U S Steel subsidiary that owned the ore and coal docks on Lake Erie? Somehwre deep in the long lost recesses of my mind "P&L Dock Co." has a hazy connection to the ore docks of the PRR at Ashtabula, Ohio. I recall meeting the ore dock agent at a party given by the PRR coal sales department in Cleveland, Ohio, 39 years ago and I think that's who he said operated the docks Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: [PRR] P&L Dock Co. > Lists, > > Anyone have info as to where and who was the "P&L Dock Company". > Not sure if it is RR or Trucking or ? related I am assuming Rail > related in the ports of Lake Erie somewhere but can find nothing via the > internet. Any info would be useful....Thanks....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] oil headlights Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 21:40:26 +0000 Some oil headlights on steam engines had a rectangular column centered above the main body of the headlight. Does anybody know what purpose this served? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] oil headlights Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 17:17:59 -0500 Norm, ALL oil headlamps had some sort of vent or chimney on top, even trainman's lanterns or marker lights have them Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 4:40 PM Subject: [PRR] oil headlights > Some oil headlights on steam engines had a rectangular column centered above > the main body of the headlight. Does anybody know what purpose this served? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:18:20 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Heavyweight Pullmans --part1_12a.248861fe.2b969c4c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The IHC 12-1 Pullman appears to be very much like the older AHM/Rivarossi/IHC cars. The biggest differences I have noted are the need for the modeler to install the handrails himself, the truck detailing is simplified and the truck profile shallower on the newer IHC cars. Also the overall quality of the newer IHC cars appears to be more "basic". The 8-1-2 car (aside from being deformed proportionally in the letterbaord/window band/side panel areas) possesses the same qualities as the 12-1. The prototype plan for this Pullman is 3979A. Chris Baker #1918 --part1_12a.248861fe.2b969c4c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The IHC 12-1 Pullman appears to be very much like the=20= older AHM/Rivarossi/IHC cars.  The biggest differences I have noted are= the need for the modeler to install the handrails himself, the truck detail= ing is simplified and the truck profile shallower on the newer IHC cars. Als= o the overall quality of the newer IHC cars appears to be more "basic".

The 8-1-2 car (aside from being deformed proportionally in the letterbaord/w= indow band/side panel areas) possesses the same qualities as the 12-1. = The prototype plan for this Pullman is 3979A.

Chris Baker #1918 --part1_12a.248861fe.2b969c4c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:18:53 -0500 From: Phil Balles Subject: [PRR] Underbody details on P70 coaches All Has anybody seen plans or diagrams of the underbody details of a P70 / P70R / P70FBR? I'm trying to detail one of the ECW kits. Thanks Phil Balles ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Garry Spear Subject: RE: [PRR] Heavyweight Pullmans Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 20:56:35 -0500 There are two different window configurations in for the women's lavatory in plan 3979A cars. Most cars had a full height center window in the women's lavatory. The PRR had 3 cars like this: CENTFAUN, CENTHILL, and CENTWOOD. The rest of the PRR cars had a shorter window in the center. The lot is the key to determining the window height. http://PRR.Railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/GSPEAR_PRR_Sleeper_Car.htm and scroll down to 8599 to see the PRR car names. Garry Spear -----Original Message----- From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com [SMTP:Chrisandbelton2@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 7:18 PM To: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu; RAILROADmodeler@yahoogroups.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Heavyweight Pullmans The IHC 12-1 Pullman appears to be very much like the older AHM/Rivarossi/IHC cars. The biggest differences I have noted are the need for the modeler to install the handrails himself, the truck detailing is simplified and the truck profile shallower on the newer IHC cars. Also the overall quality of the newer IHC cars appears to be more "basic". The 8-1-2 car (aside from being deformed proportionally in the letterbaord/window band/side panel areas) possesses the same qualities as the 12-1. The prototype plan for this Pullman is 3979A. Chris Baker #1918 << File: ATT00001.htm >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] RPO Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:15:20 -0500 Listers, Excuse multiple post but I'm keeping topics separate. Does anyone know where I can find a good photo of the inside of the prototype Bethlehem car works RPO I'm trying to detail the interior and the top down plans from my PRR book aren't that helpful. TIA Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Bethlehem B60 Baggage car Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:12:04 -0500 Listers, Excuse multiple post but I'm keeping topics separate. I'm building a B60 baggage car. It comes with Middle division decals. One of the options is for a messenger car. The decals show a messenger car with the star only over "PRR" (with 2 Keystones) on the side. Was the star placed over "PENNSYLVANIA" . Are the vents the right size for a messenger car. Where does the toilet drain get placed? TIA Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Roundhouse Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:18:48 -0500 Listers, Excuse multiple post but I'm keeping topics separate. (last one) What would the interior color of a roundhouse like Northumberland be? Would the pillars be white on the bottom darker above as a safety measure? How about the walls? One color up to 8ft another higher? TIA Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 13:00:11 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO Chris, Your best bet is probably the now famous issue of the Keystone dedicated to RPO cars. It had plans and photos of every RPO the PRR ever had! Unfortunately it is not famous enough for me to remember which issue it was off the top of my head ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > Listers, > > Excuse multiple post but I'm keeping topics separate. > > Does anyone know where I can find a good photo of the inside of the > prototype Bethlehem car works RPO I'm trying to detail the interior and the > top down plans from my PRR book aren't that helpful. > > TIA > > Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:12:13 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO Chris, Try the Spring 1993 Keystone. It has an exhaustive article by Chuck Blardone about PRR steel RPOs. I didn't see any interior photos of an M70b, but there are interior diagrams of the M70b. There are also several excellent interior photos of BM70n cars that may help your cause. I'm also building an M70b from the BCW kit (though not to your level of detail). It's been a fun building experience. Doug --- "Chany, Christopher" wrote, in part > > > Does anyone know where I can find a good photo of > the inside of the > prototype Bethlehem car works RPO __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] RPO Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:13:29 -0500 Doug, I figure with those big windows next to each other it needs some interior. Chris -----Original Message----- From: Doug Kisala [mailto:dougkisala@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:12 PM To: Chany, Christopher Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO Chris, Try the Spring 1993 Keystone. It has an exhaustive article by Chuck Blardone about PRR steel RPOs. I didn't see any interior photos of an M70b, but there are interior diagrams of the M70b. There are also several excellent interior photos of BM70n cars that may help your cause. I'm also building an M70b from the BCW kit (though not to your level of detail). It's been a fun building experience. Doug --- "Chany, Christopher" wrote, in part > > > Does anyone know where I can find a good photo of > the inside of the > prototype Bethlehem car works RPO __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:17:10 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] Underbody details on P70 coaches Phil, list, Purchase or borrow through Interlibrary Loan the NJ International book "Pennsylvania Railroad Heavyweight Passenger Equipment Plan and Photo Book." It has plans for the P70 subclasses and underbody equipment is part of the plans. The photos are also handy for placing details. While out of print, the book has more than paid for itself by helping me detail (so far) five P70FBRs. Doug --- Phil Balles wrote: > All > > Has anybody seen plans or diagrams of the underbody > details > of a P70 / P70R / P70FBR? I'm trying to detail one > of the ECW kits. > > Thanks > Phil Balles > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:37:34 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: RE: [PRR] RPO >Doug, > >I figure with those big windows next to each other it needs some interior. > >Chris Indeed, I've been wondering about what to put in mine! IIRC, and if its any help, the area beneath the windows held the mailbags that were hung open, in racks to recvieve the sorted mail. The pigeon holes and sorting desks were in the windowless area. The area with the bags appears to have "stanchions" or poles from floor to ceiling, which might be the most prominent detail seen through the window. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Underbody details on P70 coaches Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:36:15 -0600 Hi Phil. Railroad Model Craftsman for April 1995 has an article, some plans, including underbody. But it's generic, not P70 specific. The P70 is mentioned, and the article is helpful - 6 pages long. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist PRRTHS #1204 and SPF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Balles" To: "prr talk" Sent: Tuesday, 04 March, 2003 19:18 Subject: [PRR] Underbody details on P70 coaches > Has anybody seen plans or diagrams of the underbody details of a P70 / P70R / P70FBR? I'm trying to detail one of the ECW kits. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] RPO Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:54:30 -0500 Bruce, >From the plans I figured that the circles were poles but did they hang mailbags waiting to be sorted there or were they stacked on the floor around the poles. Or do I just put open mailbags on racks under each window? Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:38 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] RPO >Doug, > >I figure with those big windows next to each other it needs some interior. > >Chris Indeed, I've been wondering about what to put in mine! IIRC, and if its any help, the area beneath the windows held the mailbags that were hung open, in racks to recvieve the sorted mail. The pigeon holes and sorting desks were in the windowless area. The area with the bags appears to have "stanchions" or poles from floor to ceiling, which might be the most prominent detail seen through the window. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:37:05 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] K-3s Great information on building a K-5s from other kit components. Anyone have any ideas on building a K-3s in HO? From what I can see, it looks like the major components would have to be scratched. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:33:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] K-3s Ron, Cary used to make a Boiler for the K2/K3. But now days finding one of those is like finding hens teeth. But if you could find one and with all the money spent acquiring all the detail parts and the time to assemble everything, it would be easier and possibly cheaper finding a Brass Westside K3. But you loose out on the joy of making something out of nothing...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:43:50 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: RE: [PRR] RPO >Bruce, > >>From the plans I figured that the circles were poles but did they hang >mailbags waiting to be sorted there or were they stacked on the floor around >the poles. Or do I just put open mailbags on racks under each window? > >Chris Chany Chris, FACT: the circle are poles ;^) RAMPANT SPECULATION: IIRC, the mail bags were sometimes stored closed, hanging from hooks on the poles or just stacked in the area of the poles. Other photos I have seen of OTHER RPOs indicate that the bags were hung open, in the space between the poles (possibley by hooks on the poles). In this way, sorted mail could be tossed into the correct bag for its destination. In other RPOs, the poles are sometimes connected with cross members, perhaps to contain the mailbags from swinging out too far? I planned to model the poles, open mail bags, a mail clerk in front of the bags, and something to at least give the impression of of the cubbies and work surfaces in the other areas... BTW, it is my impression that the the M70B was a pretty rare car in the ranks of PRR RPOs...is that true? (and we're all modeling the "oddball"!) Hey, how about modeling it with the door open and crew ready with the hook out? I'm thinking about modeling a couple of B60bs that way for kitchen cars on one of my troop trains. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:54:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR Drift Cards List, While our local Railroad Historical Society (Beaver Valley Jct Chapter) continues work on the restoration of our PRR N5c 477974 Cabin, the day will eventually come when we will actually start applying Paint. The plans are to restore the N5c the best we can to 1942 appearances. This means the interrior will be painted BUFF and the Floor Red. With the help of Bob Johnson, last night he supplied me with the PRR paint number for the Red but not for the Buff. (you have that one too Bob?) To make things easier for us to match these colors, does anyone have any drift Cards for PRR INTERIOR BUFF and the RED FLOOR ENAMEL they could loan for a short period of time. Not sure if those are the correct PRR names but you get the idea. A Local paint supplied should be able to match these for us. Here is the website for the N5c Restoration: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html Several more work sessions have been acomplished since the last web update. All porthole windows are now open but yet await final cleanup. The poor looking floor is about to be removed and new Oak Boards laid which will eventually be painted Red. Lots more to do but with summer coming we hope to make real headway. The website should show this progress. Please contact me off list if help with Color Drift Cards can be arranged. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:37:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] K-3s Great information on building a K-5s from other kit components. Anyone have any ideas on building a K-3s in HO? From what I can see, it looks like the major components would have to be scratched. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:33:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] K-3s Ron, Cary used to make a Boiler for the K2/K3. But now days finding one of those is like finding hens teeth. But if you could find one and with all the money spent acquiring all the detail parts and the time to assemble everything, it would be easier and possibly cheaper finding a Brass Westside K3. But you loose out on the joy of making something out of nothing...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:54:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR Drift Cards List, While our local Railroad Historical Society (Beaver Valley Jct Chapter) continues work on the restoration of our PRR N5c 477974 Cabin, the day will eventually come when we will actually start applying Paint. The plans are to restore the N5c the best we can to 1942 appearances. This means the interrior will be painted BUFF and the Floor Red. With the help of Bob Johnson, last night he supplied me with the PRR paint number for the Red but not for the Buff. (you have that one too Bob?) To make things easier for us to match these colors, does anyone have any drift Cards for PRR INTERIOR BUFF and the RED FLOOR ENAMEL they could loan for a short period of time. Not sure if those are the correct PRR names but you get the idea. A Local paint supplied should be able to match these for us. Here is the website for the N5c Restoration: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html Several more work sessions have been acomplished since the last web update. All porthole windows are now open but yet await final cleanup. The poor looking floor is about to be removed and new Oak Boards laid which will eventually be painted Red. Lots more to do but with summer coming we hope to make real headway. The website should show this progress. Please contact me off list if help with Color Drift Cards can be arranged. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:30:21 -0500 From: Dale Dembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO For those willing to travel, the RR museum in Bellevue Ohio has an absolutely beautiful PRR RPO with complete interior. Don't know who the manufacturer was, though. http://www.onebellevue.com/madriver/ Doug Kisala wrote: > Chris, > > Try the Spring 1993 Keystone. It has an exhaustive > article by Chuck Blardone about PRR steel RPOs. I > didn't see any interior photos of an M70b, but there > are interior diagrams of the M70b. There are also > several excellent interior photos of BM70n cars that > may help your cause. > > I'm also building an M70b from the BCW kit (though not > to your level of detail). It's been a fun building > experience. > > Doug > > --- "Chany, Christopher" > wrote, in part > > > > > Does anyone know where I can find a good photo of > > the inside of the > prototype Bethlehem car works > RPO > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: USMCnewdog25431@cs.com Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 20:55:09 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO --part1_12b.24b00a00.2b98047d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you know where it is on the lot? I haven't been there in awhile. Mike Schock Sandusky, Ohio --part1_12b.24b00a00.2b98047d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do you know where it is on the lot?  I haven't be= en there in awhile.

Mike Schock
Sandusky, Ohio
 --part1_12b.24b00a00.2b98047d_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 22:00:19 -0500 From: Dale Dembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO --------------F83A6571B0EC46A31F1A87D7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I haven't been to Bellevue in two years myself. Last time we were there the RPO was on the "main" side of the museum - not the "annex" across the street, and located alongside the church next door. It was really neat....it was like it had just been taken out of service. The city names were still on the mail sorting racks/slots or whatever they are called, and there were bags on the holders. It seemed like the only thing missing was a guy to step aboard and start sorting. Absolutely great. USMCnewdog25431@cs.com wrote: > Do you know where it is on the lot? I haven't been there in awhile. > > Mike Schock > Sandusky, Ohio --------------F83A6571B0EC46A31F1A87D7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I haven't been to Bellevue in two years myself.  Last time we were there the RPO was on the "main" side of the museum - not the "annex" across the street, and located alongside the church next door.  It was really neat....it was like it had just been taken out of service.  The city names were still on the mail sorting racks/slots or whatever they are called, and there were bags on the holders.  It seemed like the only thing missing was a guy to step aboard and start sorting.  Absolutely great.
 

USMCnewdog25431@cs.com wrote:

Do you know where it is on the lot?  I haven't been there in awhile.

Mike Schock
Sandusky, Ohio

--------------F83A6571B0EC46A31F1A87D7-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:26:43 EST Subject: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 --part1_37.35242dbe.2b982803_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:42:52 -0800 (PST) > From: Ronald Di Orio > Subject: MoPac cars in Pennsy train > > On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the > picture on the top of the page. The 8th car back from the locomotives > appears to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car. Also, check out the third > car back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it > may just be the light. Ron > Ron, >From study of many pix and slides, it's pretty normal for #13 (New York to St. Louis) to carry one or two MoPac baggage cars (either heavyweights or lightweights like this one). Believe the paint scheme is referred to as Eagle Blue and Gray (see RPC6). Storage mail is as good a guess as any, loaded for Dallas or (less likely) another Texas city. Note that I've never seen a MoPac RPO (nor would I expect to). One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from New York on the much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing them east from St. Louis? And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas Eagle out of Fort Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri Pacific train? Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific had several groups of express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for passenger service per Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't we seeing them in PRR trains? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_37.35242dbe.2b982803_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern Standard=20= Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 4
   Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:42:52 -0800 (PST)
   From: Ronald Di Orio <prr2249@yahoo.com>
Subject: MoPac cars in Pennsy train

On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the pictur= e on the top of the page.  The 8th car back from the locomotives appear= s to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car.  Also, check out the third car=20= back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it may=20= just be the light.  Ron


Ron,

>From study of many pix and slides, it's pretty normal for #13 (New York to S= t. Louis) to carry one or two MoPac baggage cars (either heavyweights or lig= htweights like this one).  Believe the paint scheme is referred to as E= agle Blue and Gray (see RPC6).  Storage mail is as good a guess as any,= loaded for Dallas or (less likely) another Texas city.  Note that I've= never seen a MoPac RPO (nor would I expect to). 

One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from New York on the much-pho= tographed #13, what PRR train is bringing them east from St. Louis?  An= d do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas Eagle out of Fort Worth/Dallas= , or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri Pacific train?

Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific had several groups of exp= ress boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for passenger service per Railw= ay Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't we seeing them in PRR trains?<= BR>

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_37.35242dbe.2b982803_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:26:43 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] MoPac baggage on #13 In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:42:52 -0800 (PST) > From: Ronald Di Orio > Subject: MoPac cars in Pennsy train > > On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the > picture on the top of the page. The 8th car back from the locomotives > appears to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car. Also, check out the third > car back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it > may just be the light. Ron > Ron, >From study of many pix and slides, it's pretty normal for #13 (New York to St. Louis) to carry one or two MoPac baggage cars (either heavyweights or lightweights like this one). Believe the paint scheme is referred to as Eagle Blue and Gray (see RPC6). Storage mail is as good a guess as any, loaded for Dallas or (less likely) another Texas city. Note that I've never seen a MoPac RPO (nor would I expect to). One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from New York on the much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing them east from St. Louis? And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas Eagle out of Fort Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri Pacific train? Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific had several groups of express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for passenger service per Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't we seeing them in PRR trains? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/bbvVKB/oEZFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 08:39:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Stone Bridge Construction From: Jerry Britton Dan (& list): I'm building a Model Railroad Stoneworks Rockville Bridge kit, modified to be my Sherman's Creek bridge. I have a question of the prototype and you probably have been closest to it (Rockville or Shermans). I'm going to try to get close this Saturday for some pics, but I am always careful to not trespass, especially in this day and age! The "coping stones" along the top outer edges form a "trough" in the top surface of the bridge itself... Do the ties and rails sit in this trough so as to be "between" the coping stones, or is the ballast built up enough so that the ties and rail are actually "higher" than the elevation of the coping stones? I seem to recall the ballast being higher than the coping stones, with ballast spilling over their top surfaces to just near the edge of the bridge itself. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:11:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Show in Harrisburg, PA on March 15 From: Jerry Britton On Saturday, March 15, 2003, the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS will host its annual "RAILROAD SHOW & COLLECTORS MARKET" from 9 a.m. - 3 p.m. at the I. W. Abel Union Hall (Steelworkers Union) on 200 Gibson Street in Steelton, Pa., just outside of Harrisburg. More details can be found at http://nrhs-hbg.pennsyrr.com/Trainshow/trainshow2003.html Is this a "great" show? No. Nothing like Timonium. But it is a "good" show. Stop by if you can. Members of the Northern Central Chapter will be manning a table to sell PRRT&HS wares... I'll be there with "Merchandise Service"... etc. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] GG1's Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 15:16:58 +0000 I've looked at a lot of pictures of pilots between 4801-4857 and 4858-1936 and as near as I can tell the only major difference is the bulge for the drop coupler on 4858-4936. The steps are the same and the pilot dimensions and outside shape is the same. It should be a fairly simple conversion to lop off the bulge and fill in the area with a styrene plug that is straight accross and repaint. Has anybody tried this? Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:36:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] FW: E-Store RFP E-STORE REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS As was reported in the February 28, 2003, Special Edition of "e-NEWS," the Society has temporarily discontinued operation of its e-store. Although our general experience with the store has been less than completely satisfactory, it is believed to be a viable enterprise for the Society to be engaged in. Therefore, we are currently evaluating options on how to operate the store and soliciting proposals from interested individuals or businesses with experience in this field. Those submitting proposals should have a merchant's account, preferably with Visa and/or Master Card. However, alternate methods of payment may be considered. If you or your business would like to work with the Society in its operation of the e-store, you are invited to submit a proposal to the Society. There are several ways in which the store could operate. If you have alternative methods to offer as possible solutions, please submit each alternative as a separate proposal outlining the advantages and disadvantages of each. Proposals must specify the experience that you or your business has in operating online merchandise services. Proposals should be emailed to abbuchan1@comcast.net or sent by US Mail to Al Buchan, 785 Cornwallis Drive, Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054-3209. All serious proposals will be reviewed and given consideration during the next BoD meeting, to be held on May 1, 2003. All proposals should be submitted by April 25, 2003. "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:36:35 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] FW: E-Store RFP E-STORE REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS As was reported in the February 28, 2003, Special Edition of "e-NEWS," the Society has temporarily discontinued operation of its e-store. Although our general experience with the store has been less than completely satisfactory, it is believed to be a viable enterprise for the Society to be engaged in. Therefore, we are currently evaluating options on how to operate the store and soliciting proposals from interested individuals or businesses with experience in this field. Those submitting proposals should have a merchant's account, preferably with Visa and/or Master Card. However, alternate methods of payment may be considered. If you or your business would like to work with the Society in its operation of the e-store, you are invited to submit a proposal to the Society. There are several ways in which the store could operate. If you have alternative methods to offer as possible solutions, please submit each alternative as a separate proposal outlining the advantages and disadvantages of each. Proposals must specify the experience that you or your business has in operating online merchandise services. Proposals should be emailed to abbuchan1@comcast.net or sent by US Mail to Al Buchan, 785 Cornwallis Drive, Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054-3209. All serious proposals will be reviewed and given consideration during the next BoD meeting, to be held on May 1, 2003. All proposals should be submitted by April 25, 2003. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 11:09:38 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Stone Bridge Construction From: Jerry Britton On 3/6/03 11:03 AM, Dan Cupper (cupper@att.net) wrote: > There are two courses of stone block that crown the arches and > spandrels, each projecting slightly but progressively further outward > from the bridge centerline. The second-to-top layer of stone is called > the string course, and the top layer is called the coping. The ballast > originally was filled in such that the top of the ties lay about level > with or maybe slightly below the top surface of the coping. > > However, as you know, the railroad over the years has built up the > roadbed with successive rounds of cleaning and raising the ballast. Hence my reason for sending this to Dan first, and secondarily to the list...Dan, I knew you'd come through on this one! Regarding the model: It comes with Homabed of the same height as the string/coping courses. The question was whether or not to place the track directly on the Homabed/coping or to raise it by the amount of N scale cork roadbed (about 1/8"). I model 1954, so having been in service and reballasted for 52 years, that amount of raise may be appropriate. I have the arches all assembled in place and will soon be adding the coping course. Once that is glued in place, I'll mock it up both ways and see how it looks. Putting the cork on top is actually to my advantage, for a variety of reasons that I won't go into here. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 11:19:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Pipe Fence From: Jerry Britton I think I already know the answer to this ("no")... Does anyone make two rail PRR pipe fence in N scale? I need some for my Sherman's Creek bridge, which did have it, unlike the Rockville Bridge, which did not. If not, has anyone found stanchions that are suitable, perhaps for use with piano wire? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 14:24:03 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS 2004 Annual Meeting Dates Friends, There was some question a week ago about the dates for the PRRT&HS Annual Meeting in Cincinnati, OH. I contacted Rick Bailey of the host Cincinnati Modelers and he advised me that it will be held from Thursday, April 29 - Sunday, May 2, 2004. Al "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 14:24:03 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS 2004 Annual Meeting Dates Friends, There was some question a week ago about the dates for the PRRT&HS Annual Meeting in Cincinnati, OH. I contacted Rick Bailey of the host Cincinnati Modelers and he advised me that it will be held from Thursday, April 29 - Sunday, May 2, 2004. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Sam Rea Line Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 16:53:23 -0500 Chris: The idea of building the Sam Rea line goes along with my previous e-mail to the list, of creating your own history. Your spurious history would be very close to reality and very well could have been. Overhead wire would be a given, after all, Big Liz was developed for conquering the Alleghenies with standard AC, not third rail DC. This would also give you the option of creating some might have been locomotives too. Or even PRR purchasing E-33s from GE to make up a motive power shortage in 195X (whatever). Experimental turbines like the UP had?? or whatever you can imagine. It is conceivable that PRR would have survived the 60's if the Sam Rea line were built and electrified. It would have cut hours off the Chicago run and beat the NYC everytime, sucking business away from them each year. Go for it! Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 2:25 PM Subject: [PRR] Sam Rea Line > Listers, > > After reading about the Sam Rea Line in the Keystone, I was thinking about > modeling it for the following reasons. (the below assumes that it was built > in real life) > > 1) It has a 2 track mainline. (a continuous 4 track main is a little hard > to do in HO) > 2) It has grades, tunnels, cross overs with the mail line, an electrified > tunnel with DD-1's (this could be upgraded to over head) > 3) while I can model specific loco's and cars and locations the actual track > work would be as I see fit. > 4)Industries can be whatever I want to put in the town assuming "If you > build it (railroad) they will come (industry)" > > I will now run and hide from the comments. > > Chris Chany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 21:44:37 -0500 From: jconsoli@paonline.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Stone Bridge Construction Jerry, I have seen on a number (at least of smaller) stone arch bridges, that layers of ties have been laid on top of the stones against the pipe handrails to contain the rising level of the ballast profile. Jack Jerry Britton wrote: > On 3/6/03 11:03 AM, Dan Cupper (cupper@att.net) wrote: > > > There are two courses of stone block that crown the arches and > > spandrels, each projecting slightly but progressively further outward > > from the bridge centerline. The second-to-top layer of stone is called > > the string course, and the top layer is called the coping. The ballast > > originally was filled in such that the top of the ties lay about level > > with or maybe slightly below the top surface of the coping. > > > > However, as you know, the railroad over the years has built up the > > roadbed with successive rounds of cleaning and raising the ballast. > > Hence my reason for sending this to Dan first, and secondarily to the > list...Dan, I knew you'd come through on this one! > > Regarding the model: It comes with Homabed of the same height as the > string/coping courses. The question was whether or not to place the track > directly on the Homabed/coping or to raise it by the amount of N scale cork > roadbed (about 1/8"). > > I model 1954, so having been in service and reballasted for 52 years, that > amount of raise may be appropriate. > > I have the arches all assembled in place and will soon be adding the coping > course. Once that is glued in place, I'll mock it up both ways and see how > it looks. Putting the cork on top is actually to my advantage, for a variety > of reasons that I won't go into here. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "marlana freitas" Subject: [PRR] baggage cars>westbound Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 23:26:30 -0500 Group- could the mystery of west moving off road baggage cars be the St. Louis Mail, Train #11? My note on this is a 1920 timetable. Can anyone offer later service dates?? 1920 train is carded for 9:45pm out of NYC--Ar. Pitts.9:20am--Ar. St. Louis 1:15am. In answer to question on RPOs; horizontal poles formed the "pouch racks" that held the bags for mail sorting. Each section on the rack had 4 hooks per bag; as well as a metal 4 inch plate for the card ID tag to destination. Tag was put into metal locking slide clip at top of bag; then set aside for drop enroute, or placed in storage car. Horizontal poles were for the mail handlers to hang the set up bags for clerks as needed; also were a safety hold. Secondly, having worked South Postal in Boston in the late 60's, I found that the holiday season would bring X29, X42,B60,MS60,and B70 types. Late night arrivals from Wash. D.C. & NYC on the weekends would have one crew in an RPO sorting letter and first class parcels, and a second crew in a BM70 type sorting 2nd.,3rd, class mail and parcel post/regular rate. Of interest were the REA cars that came attached to the same train. These were set out at their facility in the other side of the terminal. Weekdays 5-6 cars, with at least 1-2 R50b's. Weekends there about 12 cars total, of which 3-4 would be R50b's. Remember, this was the Xmas season, and it looked like the RR would use what ever was available. MS60's would arrive with a floor load of sorted mail, and REA would get 2-3 per night; weekends there were at least 3>>Wash. D.C., NYC, Chicago, at the minimum. My body aches every time I recall these holiday employment adventures of 62,63,and 64. Retired RPO clerks are the best source of info for the sorting tables/pigeon holes. Working as a mail handler in the terminal did not allow us the privilege of "bothering" the crews. At age 16, any group of men who worked with side arms were not to be disturbed , period... Hope this helps some fill in some missing details. Fred in Vt. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:44:46 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence From: "Douglas Nelson" Hi Jerry: This would be a great project for someone. I think that the stantions could be nicely done in etched brass and then combined with brass wire. Hell Gate Models is pretty busy with our products, but someone should consider taking this on. All that is needed is black and white art work and someone to do the photo etching. Doug Nelson. ---------- >From: Jerry Britton >To: PRR-n_scale , PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence >Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2003, 8:19 AM > > I think I already know the answer to this ("no")... > > Does anyone make two rail PRR pipe fence in N scale? > > I need some for my Sherman's Creek bridge, which did have it, unlike the > Rockville Bridge, which did not. > > If not, has anyone found stanchions that are suitable, perhaps for use with > piano wire? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Trains web site Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:10:18 +0000 The pictures are now posted of the model of Sodus Point and the prototype pictures. The model is pretty good but the proto pictures are so small that they are virtually useless for modeling purposes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] E bay wheel sets Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:13:08 +0000 There are two sets of drivers offered on E bay today. One is supposed to be for a C1 and had about 12 sets with coined or lost wax brass centers and half with drive gears. There is also a set for a K4 that has solid wheels that the spokes show (like they had sheet metal fillers added). though somebody may be interested. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:25:45 -0600 In HO scale a California firm offered these pipe fences in brass several years ago. I think the guy that owned the firm was Hugh Debberthine (sp?). I know he attended the PRRT&HS convention at least once and is probably a society member. Maybe someone could contact him about doing n-scale. -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Nelson [mailto:dougnelson@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 11:45 PM To: PRR-n_scale; PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence Hi Jerry: This would be a great project for someone. I think that the stantions could be nicely done in etched brass and then combined with brass wire. Hell Gate Models is pretty busy with our products, but someone should consider taking this on. All that is needed is black and white art work and someone to do the photo etching. Doug Nelson. ---------- >From: Jerry Britton >To: PRR-n_scale , PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence >Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2003, 8:19 AM > > I think I already know the answer to this ("no")... > > Does anyone make two rail PRR pipe fence in N scale? > > I need some for my Sherman's Creek bridge, which did have it, unlike the > Rockville Bridge, which did not. > > If not, has anyone found stanchions that are suitable, perhaps for use with > piano wire? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 09:37:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence From: Jerry Britton On 3/7/03 9:25 AM, Cadwell, Marvin L (cadwelml@bp.com) wrote: > In HO scale a California firm offered these pipe fences in brass several > years ago. I think the guy that owned the firm was Hugh Debberthine (sp?). > I know he attended the PRRT&HS convention at least once and is probably a > society member. Maybe someone could contact him about doing n-scale. > It was Hugh, and the company was The P Company. I feel confident that he will NOT do the project in N. He ran it in HO and then sold the whole stock to another firm (Pikestuff ?). Eventually it went back to him. A few years back (four or so) I spoke with him and he claimed he still had a garage full of the stuff. Given that, I doubt he would want to invest in N scale! By the way, he did the entire railings. In N scale I think we are best looking at laser etched stanchions for use with user applied wire. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:51:52 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains web site >The pictures are now posted of the model of Sodus Point and the prototype >pictures. The model is pretty good but the proto pictures are so small that >they are virtually useless for modeling purposes. If you click on the pictures, you get a larger, somewhat more useful image. I was able to copy them to disk and get full sized images. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:12:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Railroad Workers Owed Death Benefit PRRT&HS Webmaster Steve Agostini has advised me that beneficiaries of deceased Pennsylvania Railroad workers could be owed $2,000 in life insurance benefits that have gone unpaid. If you are the spouse, child or grandchild of one of the railroad workers on our list, you could be the beneficiary and owed $2,000 in unpaid death benefits. Anyone wishing to find out if they have a claim should contact Treasury's Bureau of Unclaimed Property at 1-800-237-9757, e-mail RailroadWorkers@patreasury.org, or visit the following website: http://patreasury.com/RR/RRList.html A visit to this site revealed several people known to both Steve and myself, and in some cases former members of the PRRT&HS. Al ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:12:40 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] Railroad Workers Owed Death Benefit PRRT&HS Webmaster Steve Agostini has advised me that beneficiaries of deceased Pennsylvania Railroad workers could be owed $2,000 in life insurance benefits that have gone unpaid. If you are the spouse, child or grandchild of one of the railroad workers on our list, you could be the beneficiary and owed $2,000 in unpaid death benefits. Anyone wishing to find out if they have a claim should contact Treasury's Bureau of Unclaimed Property at 1-800-237-9757, e-mail RailroadWorkers@patreasury.org, or visit the following website: http://patreasury.com/RR/RRList.html A visit to this site revealed several people known to both Steve and myself, and in some cases former members of the PRRT&HS. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 12:16:58 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Historical Society forming From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" All Somewhat off topic, and perhaps out of the area, but I know there are a few P&LE fans out there who might be interested in this newly forming group. If interested, contact Jack Polaritz, one of the driving forces of the group: 8411 St. Peters Lane New Kent, VA 23124-2719 804-932-3264 h 804-310-2700 cell polaritz@stargate.net You can also visit their website: www.plerrhs.org Don Harper Marine Lab Texas A&M Univ. at Galveston Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 10:22:08 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 --- RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from > New York on the > much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing > them east from St. Louis? > And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas > Eagle out of Fort > Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri > Pacific train? > Rick--- Good question. My first guess was that the eastbound train would be number 14, but a look at the limited collection of timetables and guides that I have seems to indicate that that particular train did not originate in St. Louis. However, I can personally attest to seeing MoPac cars in eastbound trains during the sixties go through Burgettstown. One type of car I remember in particular (because it was unusual) can be seen at http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg, a 70's MP car built specifically for the mail/express transport. I had some communication a month or so ago concerning these cars on the MoPac list if anyone is interested in looking at the thread. Ron > Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific > had several groups of > express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for > passenger service per > Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't > we seeing them in PRR > trains? > > Unfortunately, cannot remember seeing any of these in trains heading either east or west, but that doesn't mean they weren't there. I do remember seeing regular MoPac Baggage cars, however, along with the special cars mentioned above. Ron > Rick Tipton > Louisville KY > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially > PRR Lines West > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:43:06 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PennsyWest] Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 There is a typo in this communication, the MP mail/express car is not a "70's car" in the sense of being built in the 1970's, but in fact a 70 foot car. According to my MoPac sources, these were build in the 1960's. Sorry. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:50:52 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 1937 AAR 40' Boxcar From: Jerry Britton InterMountain has announced that later this month they will ship a "1937 AAR 40' Boxcar" in PRR livery -- in both N and HO scales. I have a query in to IM as to what class these are lettered for, as well as how many road numbers are being offered. Can any of you venture a guess as to what these might be? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:17:04 -0800 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania Limited. It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's early 60's. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Di Orio" To: ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > > --- RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern > > Standard Time, > > PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > > > > One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from > > New York on the > > much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing > > them east from St. Louis? > > And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas > > Eagle out of Fort > > Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri > > Pacific train? > > > Rick--- > Good question. My first guess was that the > eastbound train would be number 14, but a look at the > limited collection of timetables and guides that I > have seems to indicate that that particular train did > not originate in St. Louis. However, I can personally > attest to seeing MoPac cars in eastbound trains during > the sixties go through Burgettstown. One type of car > I remember in particular (because it was unusual) can > be seen at > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg, a 70's > MP car built specifically for the mail/express > transport. I had some communication a month or so ago > concerning these cars on the MoPac list if anyone is > interested in looking at the thread. > Ron > > > Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific > > had several groups of > > express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for > > passenger service per > > Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't > > we seeing them in PRR > > trains? > > > > Unfortunately, cannot remember seeing any of these > in trains heading either east or west, but that > doesn't mean they weren't there. I do remember seeing > regular MoPac Baggage cars, however, along with the > special cars mentioned above. Ron > > > Rick Tipton > > Louisville KY > > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially > > PRR Lines West > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:17:04 -0800 I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania Limited. It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's early 60's. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Di Orio" To: ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > > --- RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern > > Standard Time, > > PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > > > > One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from > > New York on the > > much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing > > them east from St. Louis? > > And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas > > Eagle out of Fort > > Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri > > Pacific train? > > > Rick--- > Good question. My first guess was that the > eastbound train would be number 14, but a look at the > limited collection of timetables and guides that I > have seems to indicate that that particular train did > not originate in St. Louis. However, I can personally > attest to seeing MoPac cars in eastbound trains during > the sixties go through Burgettstown. One type of car > I remember in particular (because it was unusual) can > be seen at > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg, a 70's > MP car built specifically for the mail/express > transport. I had some communication a month or so ago > concerning these cars on the MoPac list if anyone is > interested in looking at the thread. > Ron > > > Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific > > had several groups of > > express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for > > passenger service per > > Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't > > we seeing them in PRR > > trains? > > > > Unfortunately, cannot remember seeing any of these > in trains heading either east or west, but that > doesn't mean they weren't there. I do remember seeing > regular MoPac Baggage cars, however, along with the > special cars mentioned above. Ron > > > Rick Tipton > > Louisville KY > > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially > > PRR Lines West > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] pardon the interruption Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 21:57:58 -0500 Hey Nick: Your caseyj@igateway.com got the big bounce. Next week is great - I'll be out and about tomorrow morning - If you need me for a spell give a call - Otherwise I'll be there with bells on next Saturday. Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:17:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO --part1_1d4.4a3820e.2b9abac6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris. I am looking at the SEPT.1981 issue of RAILS NORTHEAST and it has a good drawing of a class BM70M RPO. A good cross section view of both sides of the interior. The black circles are where there is a floor to ceiling pole or as they call them stanchions. They were fitted into a socket in the ceiling with a spring inside of it and you pushed the stanchion up into the socket and then aligned the bottom of the stanchion to a hole in the floor and when you left go of the stanchion, it was pushed down into the floor and held in place by the pressure of the spring of the ceiling socket. This is where sacks of mail would be piled awaiting sorting at one end and a similar section at the other end where sorted mail was stored. The sacks would be piled up laying down,not up right. The car pictured in the 9-81 issue of RNE is PC 28157,ex PRR 6539,ex PRR 5239. This is the ROBERT E HANNIGAN,the only named RPO on the PRR and from what I have seen and the date of rebuild could very well be (in my opinion anyway) the proto type for the later BM70NB that was used on the BROADWAY LIMITED. The HANNIGAN ran regular BROADWAY service for years. This car survives today,although in rather good shape outside,it was modified inside. Most of the interior was removed when the car went into MW use,most likely under PC. Hope this answers your question,along with some other tid bits. Pat McKinney --part1_1d4.4a3820e.2b9abac6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris.
        I am looking at the SEPT.1981 iss= ue of RAILS NORTHEAST and it has a good drawing of a class BM70M RPO. A good= cross section view of both sides of the interior. The black circles are whe= re there is a floor to ceiling pole or as they call them stanchions. They we= re fitted into a socket in the ceiling with a spring inside of it and you pu= shed the stanchion up into the socket and then aligned the bottom of the sta= nchion to a hole in the floor and when you left go of the stanchion, it was=20= pushed down into the floor and held in place by the pressure of the spring o= f the ceiling socket. This is where sacks of mail would be piled awaiting so= rting at one end and a similar section at the other end where sorted mail wa= s stored. The sacks would be piled up laying down,not up right.
  The car pictured in the 9-81 issue of RNE is PC 28157,ex PRR 6539,ex=20= PRR 5239.
This is the ROBERT E HANNIGAN,the only named RPO on the PRR and from what I=20= have seen and the date of rebuild could very well be (in my opinion anyway)=20= the proto type for the later BM70NB that was used on the BROADWAY LIMITED. T= he HANNIGAN ran regular BROADWAY service for years.
   This car survives today,although in rather good shape outside,i= t was modified inside. Most of the interior was removed when the car went in= to MW use,most likely under PC. Hope this answers your question,along with s= ome other tid bits.

Pat McKinney --part1_1d4.4a3820e.2b9abac6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 22:54:25 -0500 From: John Ryan Subject: [PRR] Wilmington Station I have commissioned a painting of the Wilmington, DE PRR station during the time (1969-1970) when I routinely commuted between Wilmington and New York or Philadelphia. I seem to remember 5 stripe GG-1's. Is this a figment of my imagination? If 5 stripe GG-1's were around in 1969, does anyone have any ideas as to what numbers would be appropriate? Would they have had the high intake vents. What are the chances that a train would have had doubleheaded 5 stripe GG-1's? I also seem to remember freights running through the station rather than using the Shellpot cutoff. Would it have been more likely that a freight train was doubleheaded than a passenger train? John Ryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1937 AAR 40' Boxcar Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:26:03 -0600 Hi Jerry--You wrote: > > InterMountain has announced that later this month they will ship a "1937 AAR > 40' Boxcar" in PRR livery -- in both N and HO scales. > > I have a query in to IM as to what class these are lettered for, as well as > how many road numbers are being offered. > > Can any of you venture a guess as to what these might be? > Too bad. Here we go again. PRR had no "1937 AAR 40' Boxcars." The nearest class would be X37, but notice I said "nearest" not "close". There were significant differences in major details like the roof and side panels as well as minor detail differences. See the Keystone Dec 1981 p. 22. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 00:21:15 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] K-3s Ron, list, Aside from the long-out-of-production Cary boiler, N&W modeler Jim Teese authored a series on N&W's E-3 class Pacifics. Why am I mentioning the N&W? These Pacifics were former PRR K3s class engines sold to the N&W in 1930. Series appeared in Model Railroading Magazine. November and December 1994 have prototype information (covers the PRR slightly; focuses mainly on their time on the N&W). January-March 1995 MRG covers kitbashing the E-3 from a Bachmann/Spectrum K4s by shortening the firebox and changing the cab. N&W used entirely different tenders (as well as myriad other detail changes), but this could get you started on a layout-quality K3s; the boiler will be tapered (as opposed to nearly straight on the real K3s engines) and there will be some discrepancies in the valve gear. Doug --- Ronald Di Orio wrote: > Great information on building a K-5s from other kit > components. Anyone have any ideas on building a > K-3s > in HO? From what I can see, it looks like the major > components would have to be scratched. Ron > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 07:39:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] 1937 AAR 40' Boxcar From: Jerry Britton On 3/7/03 11:26 PM, "Steve Hoxie" wrote: >> InterMountain has announced that later this month they will ship a "1937 > AAR >> 40' Boxcar" in PRR livery -- in both N and HO scales. >> >> I have a query in to IM as to what class these are lettered for, as well > as >> how many road numbers are being offered. >> >> Can any of you venture a guess as to what these might be? >> > Too bad. Here we go again. PRR had no "1937 AAR 40' Boxcars." The nearest > class would be X37, but notice I said "nearest" not "close". There were > significant differences in major details like the roof and side panels as > well as minor detail differences. See the Keystone Dec 1981 p. 22. > Thanks, Steve! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR K4 to K5 conversion Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:07:43 -0500 Group, I approached Bowser with this conversion... Read on... Sam Vastano Hank, Looks Like we might have a chance.... thanks for the info. I will look into this. Thank You Lee English Web Site http://www.bowser-trains.com Bowser Mfg PO Box 322 1302 Jordan Ave Montoursville PA 17754 570-368-2379 570-368-5046 Fax ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 8:17 AM Subject: Hank Mummert's K4 to K5 conversion parts list > > >Mr English, > >Thought you might find this interesting. All Bowser or Cary parts. Here is >the link to a website http://www.crispen.org/SV/k4_to_k5.html > >Mabe someday we will see this in a kit form directly from you. > >Thanks > >Sam Vastano > >From: "SM" >Reply-To: "SM" >To: "Sam Vastano" >Subject: Re: PRR K4 to K5 conversion >Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:53:29 -0500 > >Hi.... > > Sure no problem. If they get interested in it, somehow >i hope to find out where Joe Zappa is and perhaps >get the one i built from him. Else wise either they would >have to build one or they could have me build one. > >One thorny possible problem would be if Joe Zappa >gives them a problem over it. But the best i know >it was never copied, marketed or even copy righted. >He had rushed me a little to get it done for the >PRRT&HS national meeting that year so he could >show it there, but from what i've heard he never >did. Also he has the N-8 pilot model i made >(along with one of my own and a pair of trucks >from another car i have).I Never got any of that >stuff back. > >I still have my copies of the parts list and drawings >and the copies of the royalty agreement for >Liberty Models. I also still have the pictures i took >of it.I guess you'll have to let Lee >English know about this and see what he says. >I don't really think that it would be a problem >though as it was THEIR parts that were modified. >Another one might be better anyway. I learned a >lot from that one and would probably do better >with the next one, although that one was near >perfect. I also now have my Westside K-5 to >compare it to. > >Write me back and let me know what developes. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:31:12 -0500 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book Hi All, I have just received 2 books that I consider to be a MAJOR addition to my collection. The first is a collection of PRR lists of tracings for MANY freight cars. It is 1 1/2" thick. Additionally, it is somewhat the evolution of the car, because it lists by year, the later drawings produced. This just knocked me out when I saw it. The second book is a collection of the lists of tracings for many (maybe all) freight car trucks. These are all instrumental in getting copies of drawings from the PA State archives that may not be in the database. Finally, I have a question. Both of these books were assembled by the PRR for use in a shop. One has "E W Fox" on the opening page. They have survived very well because of a heavy canvas cover on both, which incidentally are pretty crusty. They are also bolted together with 1/4-20 screws. The car book has 2 bolts at the top, making it a flip over book. I am thinking about putting them in a loose leaf book to make each page more accessible, but that that would compromise that originality of what I think it are major surviving PRR artifacts. I am looking for a little consensus on what to do. I would have to punch holes in the side of both books for the loose leaf. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:31:12 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book Hi All, I have just received 2 books that I consider to be a MAJOR addition to my collection. The first is a collection of PRR lists of tracings for MANY freight cars. It is 1 1/2" thick. Additionally, it is somewhat the evolution of the car, because it lists by year, the later drawings produced. This just knocked me out when I saw it. The second book is a collection of the lists of tracings for many (maybe all) freight car trucks. These are all instrumental in getting copies of drawings from the PA State archives that may not be in the database. Finally, I have a question. Both of these books were assembled by the PRR for use in a shop. One has "E W Fox" on the opening page. They have survived very well because of a heavy canvas cover on both, which incidentally are pretty crusty. They are also bolted together with 1/4-20 screws. The car book has 2 bolts at the top, making it a flip over book. I am thinking about putting them in a loose leaf book to make each page more accessible, but that that would compromise that originality of what I think it are major surviving PRR artifacts. I am looking for a little consensus on what to do. I would have to punch holes in the side of both books for the loose leaf. Thanks Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:43:29 -0500 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 There was also an Eastbound "Mail" Train # 10, which ran just ahead of or followed #s 54-32 with many foreign bags. I used to ride #54-32 east from Lancaster to N, Phila frequently during 1966 and 1967 and would see the mail train while waiting for # 54-32. Also during this time frame, # 54-32 sleeping cars were frequently leased Southern Pacific sleepers. This was just before the sleeper line from St. Louis was dropped, and the diner-lounge was replaced by the snack bar coach. JW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bennett Levin" To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I > think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania Limited. > It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's early > 60's. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ronald Di Orio" > To: ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR > Fax" ; "PRR Talk" > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > > > > > > --- RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern > > > Standard Time, > > > PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > > One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from > > > New York on the > > > much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing > > > them east from St. Louis? > > > And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas > > > Eagle out of Fort > > > Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri > > > Pacific train? > > > > > Rick--- > > Good question. My first guess was that the > > eastbound train would be number 14, but a look at the > > limited collection of timetables and guides that I > > have seems to indicate that that particular train did > > not originate in St. Louis. However, I can personally > > attest to seeing MoPac cars in eastbound trains during > > the sixties go through Burgettstown. One type of car > > I remember in particular (because it was unusual) can > > be seen at > > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg, a 70's > > MP car built specifically for the mail/express > > transport. I had some communication a month or so ago > > concerning these cars on the MoPac list if anyone is > > interested in looking at the thread. > > Ron > > > > > Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific > > > had several groups of > > > express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for > > > passenger service per > > > Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't > > > we seeing them in PRR > > > trains? > > > > > > Unfortunately, cannot remember seeing any of these > > in trains heading either east or west, but that > > doesn't mean they weren't there. I do remember seeing > > regular MoPac Baggage cars, however, along with the > > special cars mentioned above. Ron > > > > > Rick Tipton > > > Louisville KY > > > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially > > > PRR Lines West > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Joe Witcofsky Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:43:29 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 There was also an Eastbound "Mail" Train # 10, which ran just ahead of or followed #s 54-32 with many foreign bags. I used to ride #54-32 east from Lancaster to N, Phila frequently during 1966 and 1967 and would see the mail train while waiting for # 54-32. Also during this time frame, # 54-32 sleeping cars were frequently leased Southern Pacific sleepers. This was just before the sleeper line from St. Louis was dropped, and the diner-lounge was replaced by the snack bar coach. JW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bennett Levin" To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I > think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania Limited. > It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's early > 60's. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ronald Di Orio" > To: ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR > Fax" ; "PRR Talk" > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > > > > > > --- RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern > > > Standard Time, > > > PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > > One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from > > > New York on the > > > much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing > > > them east from St. Louis? > > > And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas > > > Eagle out of Fort > > > Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri > > > Pacific train? > > > > > Rick--- > > Good question. My first guess was that the > > eastbound train would be number 14, but a look at the > > limited collection of timetables and guides that I > > have seems to indicate that that particular train did > > not originate in St. Louis. However, I can personally > > attest to seeing MoPac cars in eastbound trains during > > the sixties go through Burgettstown. One type of car > > I remember in particular (because it was unusual) can > > be seen at > > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg, a 70's > > MP car built specifically for the mail/express > > transport. I had some communication a month or so ago > > concerning these cars on the MoPac list if anyone is > > interested in looking at the thread. > > Ron > > > > > Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific > > > had several groups of > > > express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for > > > passenger service per > > > Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't > > > we seeing them in PRR > > > trains? > > > > > > Unfortunately, cannot remember seeing any of these > > in trains heading either east or west, but that > > doesn't mean they weren't there. I do remember seeing > > regular MoPac Baggage cars, however, along with the > > special cars mentioned above. Ron > > > > > Rick Tipton > > > Louisville KY > > > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially > > > PRR Lines West > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:56:41 -0500 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: Re: [PRR] Wilmington Station As I recall, the only possible GG-1with 5 stripe paint, 1969-1970 would be the 4801 which was strictly used in freight service at that time. The era you describe was early PC and most GG-1s were single stripe with the Keystone painted out and PC decaled on. As I recall 4801 was extremely weathered, but never repainted for some reason, known only to Joe Kepner (Wilm Loco Shop Supt). Freight trains did operate through Wilmington Stationon a regular basis, with multiple consists of 2 or more GG-1s. Some passenger trains also had more than one, although one was commonplace. JW ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ryan" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:54 PM Subject: [PRR] Wilmington Station > I have commissioned a painting of the Wilmington, DE PRR station during > the time (1969-1970) when I routinely commuted between Wilmington and > New York or Philadelphia. > > I seem to remember 5 stripe GG-1's. Is this a figment of my > imagination? If 5 stripe GG-1's were around in 1969, does anyone have > any ideas as to what numbers would be appropriate? Would they have had > the high intake vents. What are the chances that a train would have had > doubleheaded 5 stripe GG-1's? > > I also seem to remember freights running through the station rather than > using the Shellpot cutoff. Would it have been more likely that a > freight train was doubleheaded than a passenger train? > > John Ryan > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ed Casey" Subject: [PRR] PRR S12 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 15:05:52 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2E584.35F3A940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a newcomer to US modelling and the PRR, and for my first project I am detailing, repainting an Athearn S12. I've gathered together a good deal of b/w photos of PRR S12s, but can't work out exactly what colour they were painted. Were they brunswick green , black or a different shade?? Also, can anyone recommend any detailing parts for the S12, or am I better off scratchbuilding them?? And last but not least, I have so far failed to locate somewhere I can buy the Ernst regearing kits (being in the UK) - does anyone know of an online store or similar?? Thanks very much for any help anyone can give Ed Casey ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2E584.35F3A940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I am a = newcomer to=20 US modelling and the PRR, and for my first project I am detailing, = repainting an=20 Athearn S12. I've gathered together a good deal of b/w photos of PRR = S12s, but=20 can't work out exactly what colour they were painted. Were they = brunswick green=20 , black or a different shade??
Also, = can anyone=20 recommend any detailing parts for the S12, or am I better off = scratchbuilding=20 them??
And = last but not=20 least, I have so far failed to locate somewhere I can buy the Ernst = regearing=20 kits (being in the UK) - does anyone know of an online store or=20 similar??
 
Thanks = very much for=20 any help anyone can give
 
Ed=20 Casey
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2E584.35F3A940-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:02:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Wilmington Station Joe,John and list, Only two GG1s in the 5 stripe scheme made it to the PC merger. 4801 and 4804. GG1 4801 was the only Penn Central G to have the 5 stripe and PC logos. That lasted to 1971. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 13:05:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] E-Store RFP Addendum E-STORE REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL ADDENDUM This is an addendum to the E-Store RFP sent out on March 6, 2003. 1. Alternative Methods of Operation All interested parties should address all or any of the following e-store operation alternatives. Alternative 1. Society obtains a merchant's account (Visa-MasterCard, etc.) and operates the e-store (handling both orders and monies), while contractor/vendor maintains the store's presence on the screen, i.e. describing, showing and keeping product info up to date, etc. Alternative 2. Contractor/vendor handles everything, except the actual fulfilling of orders. In this alternative the Society would do order picking and shipping upon notification from contractor/vendor of a successful credit transaction. Alternative 3. Contractor/vendor handles everything. Society periodically ships contractor/vendor a supply of its products as required. The Society will also entertain any other alternatives the contractor/vendor may want to offer. 2. Deadline for Submission Although proposals are not due until April 25, 2003, an earlier submission is encouraged as it would permit a more timely discussion and resolution of questions and/or other issues. Al Buchan 785 Cornwallis Drive Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054-3209 abbuchan1@comcast.net "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 13:05:44 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] E-Store RFP Addendum E-STORE REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL ADDENDUM This is an addendum to the E-Store RFP sent out on March 6, 2003. 1. Alternative Methods of Operation All interested parties should address all or any of the following e-store operation alternatives. Alternative 1. Society obtains a merchant's account (Visa-MasterCard, etc.) and operates the e-store (handling both orders and monies), while contractor/vendor maintains the store's presence on the screen, i.e. describing, showing and keeping product info up to date, etc. Alternative 2. Contractor/vendor handles everything, except the actual fulfilling of orders. In this alternative the Society would do order picking and shipping upon notification from contractor/vendor of a successful credit transaction. Alternative 3. Contractor/vendor handles everything. Society periodically ships contractor/vendor a supply of its products as required. The Society will also entertain any other alternatives the contractor/vendor may want to offer. 2. Deadline for Submission Although proposals are not due until April 25, 2003, an earlier submission is encouraged as it would permit a more timely discussion and resolution of questions and/or other issues. Al Buchan 785 Cornwallis Drive Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054-3209 abbuchan1@comcast.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 12:28:59 -0600 Hi All. I know it's a major project, but is it possible that this stuff could be loaded/copied or whatever on Rob's Site? IMHO it sounds like the ideal place for that kind of information. But I also know what a huge project it can be to scan millions of pages of data. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist PRRTHS #1204 and SPF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "PRR Talk" ; "Steam Era Freight cars" ; "PRR Fax" Sent: Saturday, 08 March, 2003 07:31 Subject: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book > Hi All, > > I have just received 2 books that I consider to be a MAJOR addition to my > collection. The first is a collection of PRR lists of tracings for MANY > freight cars. It is 1 1/2" thick. Additionally, it is somewhat the evolution > of the car, because it lists by year, the later drawings produced. This just > knocked me out when I saw it. > > The second book is a collection of the lists of tracings for many (maybe > all) freight car trucks. These are all instrumental in getting copies of > drawings from the PA State archives that may not be in the database. > > Finally, I have a question. Both of these books were assembled by the PRR > for use in a shop. One has "E W Fox" on the opening page. They have survived > very well because of a heavy canvas cover on both, which incidentally are > pretty crusty. They are also bolted together with 1/4-20 screws. The car > book has 2 bolts at the top, making it a flip over book. I am thinking about > putting them in a loose leaf book to make each page more accessible, but > that that would compromise that originality of what I think it are major > surviving PRR artifacts. I am looking for a little consensus on what to do. > I would have to punch holes in the side of both books for the loose leaf. > > Thanks > Bill > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 12:28:59 -0600 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book Hi All. I know it's a major project, but is it possible that this stuff could be loaded/copied or whatever on Rob's Site? IMHO it sounds like the ideal place for that kind of information. But I also know what a huge project it can be to scan millions of pages of data. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist PRRTHS #1204 and SPF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "PRR Talk" ; "Steam Era Freight cars" ; "PRR Fax" Sent: Saturday, 08 March, 2003 07:31 Subject: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book > Hi All, > > I have just received 2 books that I consider to be a MAJOR addition to my > collection. The first is a collection of PRR lists of tracings for MANY > freight cars. It is 1 1/2" thick. Additionally, it is somewhat the evolution > of the car, because it lists by year, the later drawings produced. This just > knocked me out when I saw it. > > The second book is a collection of the lists of tracings for many (maybe > all) freight car trucks. These are all instrumental in getting copies of > drawings from the PA State archives that may not be in the database. > > Finally, I have a question. Both of these books were assembled by the PRR > for use in a shop. One has "E W Fox" on the opening page. They have survived > very well because of a heavy canvas cover on both, which incidentally are > pretty crusty. They are also bolted together with 1/4-20 screws. The car > book has 2 bolts at the top, making it a flip over book. I am thinking about > putting them in a loose leaf book to make each page more accessible, but > that that would compromise that originality of what I think it are major > surviving PRR artifacts. I am looking for a little consensus on what to do. > I would have to punch holes in the side of both books for the loose leaf. > > Thanks > Bill > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 20:46:22 +0000 There are two hole clipboards that have the holes at the top that might work if the hole centers are at the right locations. > Hi All. > > I know it's a major project, but is it possible that this stuff could be > loaded/copied or whatever on Rob's Site? > > IMHO it sounds like the ideal place for that kind of information. But I > also know what a huge project it can be to scan millions of pages of data. > > Morgan Bilbo > Ferroequinologist > PRRTHS #1204 and SPF > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Lane" > To: "PRR Talk" ; "Steam Era Freight cars" > ; "PRR Fax" > Sent: Saturday, 08 March, 2003 07:31 > Subject: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have just received 2 books that I consider to be a MAJOR addition to my > > collection. The first is a collection of PRR lists of tracings for MANY > > freight cars. It is 1 1/2" thick. Additionally, it is somewhat the > evolution > > of the car, because it lists by year, the later drawings produced. This > just > > knocked me out when I saw it. > > > > The second book is a collection of the lists of tracings for many (maybe > > all) freight car trucks. These are all instrumental in getting copies of > > drawings from the PA State archives that may not be in the database. > > > > Finally, I have a question. Both of these books were assembled by the PRR > > for use in a shop. One has "E W Fox" on the opening page. They have > survived > > very well because of a heavy canvas cover on both, which incidentally are > > pretty crusty. They are also bolted together with 1/4-20 screws. The car > > book has 2 bolts at the top, making it a flip over book. I am thinking > about > > putting them in a loose leaf book to make each page more accessible, but > > that that would compromise that originality of what I think it are major > > surviving PRR artifacts. I am looking for a little consensus on what to > do. > > I would have to punch holes in the side of both books for the loose leaf. > > > > Thanks > > Bill > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals? Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 17:10:15 -0600 I really like my Genesis F7s, and am itching for some F3's with chicken wire. Since it is anybody's guess as to how long it will take Athearn to offer these, I'd like to build some myself. However, does anybody make decals in the proper width and color for the "as delivered" scheme? Thanks, Andy Cich ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 01:08:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] 1937 AAR 40' Boxcar --part1_3c.2cf2e7fd.2b9c344c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry and all, Who knows but whatever they call it, it will be wrong! Greg Martin > I have a query in to IM as to what class these are lettered for, as well as > how many road numbers are being offered. > > Can any of you venture a guess as to what these might be? > --part1_3c.2cf2e7fd.2b9c344c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry and all,

Who knows but whatever they call it, it will be wrong!

Greg Martin


I have a query in to IM as to w= hat class these are lettered for, as well as
how many road numbers are being offered.

Can any of you venture a guess as to what these might be?


 --part1_3c.2cf2e7fd.2b9c344c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 01:59:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals? --part1_10.2dbd9193.2b9c4051_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy and all, You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to offer a "chicken wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and lettering of the units and I have agreed. I am m going to be a real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. To answer your question regarding the correct width 2-inch stripes, the answer is no and the contact I had at Microscale that brought us the new boxcar decals and was going to correct the F unit set is now gotten the corporate BOOT! So we are on our own for a while, or until I can develop a relationship with the new guy. The one instrumental man at ATHEARN who I worked with on the PRR units and was making ready the F3s has also been afforded UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE by the COCA_COLA GANG/JOHN DEERE BOYS/READY-to-ROLL KIDS at Athearn. Greg Martin > I really like my Genesis F7s, and am itching for some F3s with chicken wire. > Since it is anybody's guess as to how long it will take Athearn to offer > these, I'd like to build some myself. However, does anybody make decals in > the proper width and color for the "as delivered" scheme? > > Thanks, > > Andy Cich > --part1_10.2dbd9193.2b9c4051_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andy and all,

You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to of= fer a "chicken wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and letteri= ng of the units and I have agreed.  I am m going to be a real NIT-PICKE= D this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed through on the Paint an= d Lettering of the Genesis units.

To answer your question regarding the correct width 2-inch stripes, the answ= er is no and the contact I had at Microscale that brought us the new boxcar=20= decals and was going to correct the F unit set is now gotten the corporate B= OOT!  So we are on our own for a while, or until I can develop a relati= onship with the new guy.  The one instrumental man at ATHEARN who I wor= ked with on the PRR units and was making ready the F3s has also been afforde= d UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE by the COCA_COLA GANG/JOHN DEERE BOYS/READY-to-ROLL= KIDS at Athearn.

Greg Martin


I really like my Genesis F7s, a= nd am itching for some F3s with chicken wire.  Since it is anybody's gu= ess as to how long it will take Athearn to offer these, I'd like to build so= me myself.  However, does anybody make decals in the proper width and c= olor for the "as delivered" scheme?

Thanks,

Andy Cich


 --part1_10.2dbd9193.2b9c4051_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR S12 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 08:34:09 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C2E616.A7C1CC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageEd, Any Walthers dealer would be able to get the re-gearing kit, they should = also be able to get the DGLE you need (Badger 16-16), and the Microscale = transfers. There is a Stewart version of the S12 which is a far better = model but it is about =A385 to buy here in the UK. Try LSWR models, they = advertise in Continental Modeller... Patrick Grace PS are you coming to Alexandra Palace? www.prr.org.uk ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Casey=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 3:05 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR S12 I am a newcomer to US modelling and the PRR, and for my first project = I am detailing, repainting an Athearn S12. I've gathered together a good = deal of b/w photos of PRR S12s, but can't work out exactly what colour = they were painted. Were they brunswick green , black or a different = shade??=20 Also, can anyone recommend any detailing parts for the S12, or am I = better off scratchbuilding them?? And last but not least, I have so far failed to locate somewhere I can = buy the Ernst regearing kits (being in the UK) - does anyone know of an = online store or similar?? Thanks very much for any help anyone can give Ed Casey ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C2E616.A7C1CC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Ed,
 
Any Walthers dealer would be able to = get the=20 re-gearing kit, they should also be able to get the DGLE you need = (Badger=20 16-16), and the Microscale transfers. There is a Stewart version of the = S12=20 which is a far better model but it is about =A385 to buy here in the UK. = Try LSWR=20 models, they advertise in Continental Modeller...
 
Patrick Grace
 
PS are you coming to Alexandra = Palace?
 
www.prr.org.uk
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Casey
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 = 3:05=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] PRR S12

I am = a newcomer to=20 US modelling and the PRR, and for my first project I am detailing, = repainting=20 an Athearn S12. I've gathered together a good deal of b/w photos of = PRR S12s,=20 but can't work out exactly what colour they were painted. Were they = brunswick=20 green , black or a different shade??
Also, can anyone=20 recommend any detailing parts for the S12, or am I better off = scratchbuilding=20 them??
And = last but not=20 least, I have so far failed to locate somewhere I can buy the Ernst = regearing=20 kits (being in the UK) - does anyone know of an online store or=20 similar??
 
Thanks very much=20 for any help anyone can give
 
Ed=20 Casey
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C2E616.A7C1CC40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 07:38:13 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] MoPac baggage on #32 the St. Louisan In a message dated 3/7/03 6:17:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net writes: > I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I > think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania > Limited. > It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's > early > 60's. > Thanks, Bennett. Number 32 (the St. Louisan) sounds like a logical way to sneak these eastward through Dayton without me seeing them. I was either still asleep or in school up the hill out of sight of the Pennsy main when 32 passed through. An interesting scheduling quirk -- we had 30/31 the Spirit of St. Louis and 3/4 the Penn Texas running both ways, but only #32 eastbound. I figure the driver here was making connections for sleepers and headend traffic at St. Louis. So eastbound, these must have come together to spell a third through passenger train. One can only guess that one of the other westbounds covered an extra departure at St. Louis. Lest our readers conclude that there was an endless fount of E units available to the Pennsy in St. Louis, I believe that at least some of the time our mail and express trains were unbalanced in the other direction. For example, Western Region ETT No. 1 (Oct 25, 1964) carded 7 and 13 westbound, but only 14 eastbound. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 07:38:13 EST Subject: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #32 the St. Louisan --part1_b6.1998061f.2b9c8fb5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/7/03 6:17:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net writes: > I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I > think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania > Limited. > It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's > early > 60's. > Thanks, Bennett. Number 32 (the St. Louisan) sounds like a logical way to sneak these eastward through Dayton without me seeing them. I was either still asleep or in school up the hill out of sight of the Pennsy main when 32 passed through. An interesting scheduling quirk -- we had 30/31 the Spirit of St. Louis and 3/4 the Penn Texas running both ways, but only #32 eastbound. I figure the driver here was making connections for sleepers and headend traffic at St. Louis. So eastbound, these must have come together to spell a third through passenger train. One can only guess that one of the other westbounds covered an extra departure at St. Louis. Lest our readers conclude that there was an endless fount of E units available to the Pennsy in St. Louis, I believe that at least some of the time our mail and express trains were unbalanced in the other direction. For example, Western Region ETT No. 1 (Oct 25, 1964) carded 7 and 13 westbound, but only 14 eastbound. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_b6.1998061f.2b9c8fb5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/7/03 6:17:52 PM Eastern Standard=20= Time, v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net writes:


I seem to recall and I believe=20= I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I
think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania Limited.=
It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's early=
60's.


Thanks, Bennett.  Number 32 (the St. Louisan) sounds like a logical way= to sneak these eastward through Dayton without me seeing them.  I was=20= either still asleep or in school up the hill out of sight of the Pennsy main= when 32 passed through.

An interesting scheduling quirk -- we had 30/31 the Spirit of St. Louis and=20= 3/4 the Penn Texas running both ways, but only #32 eastbound.  I figure= the driver here was making connections for sleepers and headend traffic at=20= St. Louis.  So eastbound, these must have come together to spell a thir= d through passenger train.  One can only guess that one of the other we= stbounds covered an extra departure at St. Louis.

Lest our readers conclude that there was an endless fount of E units availab= le to the Pennsy in St. Louis, I believe that at least some of the time our=20= mail and express trains were unbalanced in the other direction.  For ex= ample, Western Region ETT No. 1 (Oct 25, 1964) carded 7 and 13 westbound, bu= t only 14 eastbound.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_b6.1998061f.2b9c8fb5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 07:38:28 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Some verbal history - Cincinnati Gentlemen, I'd love to use the following as verbal history in the upcoming Keystone article, "The PRR in Cincinnati". I found it in my records of past messages, but it has been commented upon enough times I'm unsure who the originator was (Marty?). If he would identify himself and give me permission to quote this verbatim, I'd appreciate it. <> Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 07:38:28 EST Subject: [PRR] Some verbal history - Cincinnati --part1_de.3561fc18.2b9c8fc4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen, I'd love to use the following as verbal history in the upcoming Keystone article, "The PRR in Cincinnati". I found it in my records of past messages, but it has been commented upon enough times I'm unsure who the originator was (Marty?). If he would identify himself and give me permission to quote this verbatim, I'd appreciate it. <> Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_de.3561fc18.2b9c8fc4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen,

I'd love to use the following as verbal history in the upcoming Keystone art= icle, "The PRR in Cincinnati".  I found it in my records of past messag= es, but it has been commented upon enough times I'm unsure who the originato= r was (Marty?).  If he would identify himself and give me permission to= quote this verbatim, I'd appreciate it.

<<Let me start.

My first real job with the Pennsy was in Cincinnati. I was transferred in from an Apprentice position in Buffalo on 6/1/61 and was promoted out to Indianapolis on 11/1/62 (I am using notes, my memory isn't that good any more).

While the trains and operating types were at the station, the administrative=
offices were downtown in the Swift Building, 230 East 9th Street. I believe=20=
this building is now the hq for the public school system. It is located, IIRC, sort of around the corner from the stadium that was built downtown what, in the late 70s?

There was a freight house near the river and the PRR stored old, old stuff <= BR> there. I've always wondered what happened to the company reords/material tha= t
most have been forgotten in the old storage facilities. The Ohio River
flooded in 1936 and, whenever I needed an old file
(1945 to 1955) and it couldn't be found, the answer always was, "It must hav= e
gone down the river in '36." If it is your first time to Cincinnati, be sure=
to have someone show you the high water mark on the telephone building.

Speaking of records, it was in Cincinnati that I first began to initiate and=
handle correspondence that actually became part of files. I was introduced t= o
a couple of conventions that must confuse some collectors of Pennsy records.=
There was a period, 10 - 20 years, when internal correspondence was addresse= d
to recipients only by their three initials and never by name. Two or three <= BR> page letters/memos were NEVER stapled or paper clipped but the pages held together with a straight pin.

Finally, I recall an interchange with the Leaky and Nasty in their yard
(Decourcy Yard?) on the Kentucky side of the Ohio. I used to take an
afternoon off now and then and go out and "play" trains. I remember riding a=
yard engine pulling a draft to drop off at the L&N and having the engine= er
stop while going across a one track (as I remember it) bridge at a wooden shack, probably a 'phone shack, on the side of the bridge. He stopped at the=
shack and told me it was a toll gate and that I had to pay a nickel toll so=20=
the draft could continue. College boys were fair game. I flipped a nickel in=
the shed and we continued.

Regards, Marty>>


Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_de.3561fc18.2b9c8fc4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 08:46:13 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] CABIN HANDRAIL PAINTING QUESTION: In Jan. of 1949, PRR authorized the painting of the corner handrails on N-5b cabins, CHROME YELLOW. My question is exactly how much of the handrail was painted YELLOW? CORNER, CURVED HANDRAIL: Was the entire handrail painted YELLOW, end-to-end? CORNER STRAIGHT HANDRAIL that bends inward under the end wondow: How much of this one is painted? Just to the bend or all the way to the door?? CORNER HANDRAIL ON CORNER POST: I am assuming that this one was painted in it's entirety?? THANKS!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] EP20 from Con Cor E7 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 14:54:09 -0500 Gentlemen, Recently purchased a few Con Cor E7 shells, which I will use to cover a quite a few Athearn PAs which landed in my lap. My thinking was to marry the drives to the shells and viola! Now I find that the distance between the trucks is quite different between the EMD and AlCo units. My question is, which (if any) of the Athearn frames comes closest to the truck spacing on a EP20. (I guess what started this is the recent discussion concerning the similarities between the trucks.) Any direction will be appreciated. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:38:59 -0500 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] Nickel silver round stock Hi all, I am in the market for some nickel silver round stock up to 3/16" dia. I only need about 12 to 24 inches of it. Any suggestions for a supplier? Perhaps you have some in your scrap box. Let me know what you have. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 17:18:52 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] EP20 from Con Cor E7 --part1_93.2b994919.2b9d17cc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt, You can get a Proto Power West frame for the Con Cor E7. It is the alternative to the Con Cor frame. Greg Martin --part1_93.2b994919.2b9d17cc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt,

You can get a Proto Power West frame for the Con Cor E7. It is the alternati= ve to the Con Cor frame.

Greg  Martin --part1_93.2b994919.2b9d17cc_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] RPO Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 20:27:57 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C2E67A.5F2EDAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The spring 93 Keystone has just about anything you need to know to = detail an RPO.=20 So,from previous posts you guys are saying that BCW makes a good kit, = ECW does not make an RPO or BM and Rivarrossi/AHM 72ft arch roof is good = for the non-purist. Does BCW have current stock?? Website ?? lah ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C2E67A.5F2EDAE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The spring 93 Keystone has just about = anything you=20 need to know to detail
an RPO.
So,from previous posts you guys are = saying that BCW=20 makes a good kit, ECW
does not make an RPO or BM  and = Rivarrossi/AHM=20 72ft arch roof is good for
the non-purist.  Does BCW have = current stock??=20  Website ??
lah
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C2E67A.5F2EDAE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Re : Sodus Coal Trestle Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:15:52 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2E689.726317C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My friend Harold Russell did the drawings for that article but did not = do the text. Harold lives about 30 miles from Sodus but I wonder what the = proximity=20 is of the writer to Sodus. Harold said if any members have questions = they=20 can email him at : haroldrussell@juno.com=20 lah ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2E689.726317C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My friend Harold Russell did the = drawings for that=20 article but did not do the
text. Harold lives about 30 miles from = Sodus but I=20 wonder what the proximity
is of the writer to Sodus.  = Harold said=20 if any members have questions they
can email him at :   =  haroldrussell@juno.com&= nbsp;
lah
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2E689.726317C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 22:03:13 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Q2 Duplex in N Scale From: "Douglas Nelson" The April RMC has an announcement from Key Imports for an N Scale Q2 Duplex. I don't remember this being mentioned on the list, but I may have missed it. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 06:20:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Q2 Duplex in N Scale From: Jerry Britton On 3/10/03 1:03 AM, "Douglas Nelson" wrote: > The April RMC has an announcement from Key Imports for an N Scale Q2 Duplex. > I don't remember this being mentioned on the list, but I may have missed it. > Doug: Though the ad may have just appeared, this was actually announced about two years ago. There will be two road numbers -- #6175 and #6131. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 07:27:08 -0500 Subject: [PRR] MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online From: Jerry Britton With credit to Doug Kisala (for providing a photocopy), I have posted to the Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form MP229, Assignment of Locomotives. This document, broken down by division, lists all of the locomotives assigned to it, by road number. This form is very useful to modelers in determining the appropriateness of a newly announced model to the division you are depicting. You can quickly determine if your division had any of the units in question and, if they did, what road numbers they were. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:52:42 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1's Norm asks: >I've looked at a lot of pictures of pilots between 4801-4857 and 4858-1936 >and >as near as I can tell the only major difference is the bulge for the drop >coupler on 4858-4936. The steps are the same and the pilot dimensions and >outside shape is the same. It should be a fairly simple conversion to lop >off >the bulge and fill in the area with a styrene plug that is straight >accross and >repaint. Has anybody tried this? Thanks, Norm Bell I would have to agree that it doesn't look like that hard a "bash"...one reason I haven't made a bigger fuss about BLI's mix up with numbers . The funny thing is that I've never seen the bash described anywhere. You could certainly do it on the IHC Premier GG1. I'm waiting to see how the BLI GG1 goes together to see if it would be easier to simply make one pilot and cast it to replace the pilots on a "fleet" or if it will be necessary to modify each one. Better still would be if BLI came out with the flat pilot version! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:52:50 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Train Antennae and system Anyone know the date the train telephone system was installed on the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle? There must be a date before installation when no locomotives or cabin cars would have the antennae, another period where you would see some with and some without, and a final date where all locomotives/cabin cars assigned to that part of the railroad would be so equipped. Thanks. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:52:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Train Antennae and system Anyone know the date the train telephone system was installed on the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle? There must be a date before installation when no locomotives or cabin cars would have the antennae, another period where you would see some with and some without, and a final date where all locomotives/cabin cars assigned to that part of the railroad would be so equipped. Thanks. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:59:03 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Older PRR locomotives Any suggestions on commonly available HO steam locomotives readily convertible to older PRR prototypes? Specifically, older B,D,E,F,G and H classes, especially those that may have run on Panhandle rails between Pittsburgh and Mingo Junction. I have been told that the MDC/Roundhouse E-6 is undersize--is it close to one of the previous E classes? Thanks in advance. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:04:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Train Antennae and system From: Jerry Britton On 3/10/03 1:52 PM, Ronald Di Orio (prr2249@yahoo.com) wrote: > Anyone know the date the train telephone system was > installed on the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of > the Panhandle? There must be a date before > installation when no locomotives or cabin cars would > have the antennae, another period where you would see > some with and some without, and a final date where all > locomotives/cabin cars assigned to that part of the > railroad would be so equipped. Thanks. Ron > I don't have a direct answer for you, but clues would be contained in the "MP229 Assignment of Locomotives" documents. The listing of locos for each division indicates which have trainphones or radios. This morning I posted a 1954 edition to Keystone Crossings. Right underneath the link to the file for the 1954 edition are links to 1944 and 1957 editions on other sites. I doubt there was ever a time when all locos in a division were so equipped. Hope this helps! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:04:52 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Panhandle locomotives Anyone know of a source/list of locomotives that ran on or were assigned to the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle. I am aware of the 229's published at Keystone Crossings. I have not had much luck in uncovering other 229's or photographs of locomotives lettered for the P C & St.L, the P C C & St. L, or Pennsylvania Lines locomotives that can definitely be proven to have been assigned to this section of the PRR. Any help or directions will be greatly appreciated. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:04:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Panhandle locomotives Anyone know of a source/list of locomotives that ran on or were assigned to the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle. I am aware of the 229's published at Keystone Crossings. I have not had much luck in uncovering other 229's or photographs of locomotives lettered for the P C & St.L, the P C C & St. L, or Pennsylvania Lines locomotives that can definitely be proven to have been assigned to this section of the PRR. Any help or directions will be greatly appreciated. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:26:27 -0500 Subject: [PRR] H10s on Lines East From: Jerry Britton A few years back Key Imports announced (but has yet to produce) a rerun of H8 / H9 / H10 locomotives in N scale. I did some brief research at the time, to see which would be appropriate for my "Eastern Region" layout. >From very basic sources, I came to the conclusion that the H8's and H10's were "Lines West" locomotives, so I didn't plan on ordering these locomotives. While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia Division. Guess I better get my name into the queue in case these are ever made! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:38:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East From: Jerry Britton On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the > list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to > the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia > Division. > I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:44:28 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] H27 Okay campers, Has anyone here attempted a PRR H27? I had one of those "danger" moments last night while looking for something else in Pennsy Power III, and I came accross the photo of the only (?) offset PRR hopper, the 6 bay H27! A neat car at 90 tons, and 50.5' coupled length. I know that there is a photo in Teichmoeller's book. I wonder how easy the car would be to kitbash in HO from one of the existing (Athearn, Atlas, MDC, Stewart...) or pending (Accurail) offset hoppers? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] H10s on Lines East Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:31:11 -0600 After WWII, the H's roamed the whole system. For instance, I believe that Don Ball shows an H8 pasing through N. Philadelphia in his PRR color photo book. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:38 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the > list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to > the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia > Division. > I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:21:49 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] CABIN CAR YELLOW HANDRAILS?? QUESTION: In Jan. of 1949, PRR authorized the painting of the corner handrails on N-5b cabins, CHROME YELLOW. My question is exactly how much of the handrail was painted YELLOW? CORNER, CURVED HANDRAIL: Was the entire handrail painted YELLOW, end-to-end? CORNER STRAIGHT HANDRAIL that bends inward under the end wondow: How much of this one is painted? Just to the bend or all the way to the door?? CORNER HANDRAIL ON CORNER POST: I am assuming that this one was painted in it's entirety?? THANKS!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:34:44 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Friends: How about anything.... except another EMD F series !!!!! Lew ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Hoxie=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 6:37 PM Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make = proper HO F-unit decals?) Greg wrote-- > >You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is = going to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the = paint and lettering of the units and I have agreed. >I am m going to be = a real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed = >through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the = manufacturers. If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it = will be a nice model. But do we really need another chicken wire F3? I = can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from = Stewart. I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Our = F3 cup already runneth over.=20 What I need is a really good FP7. I can get one by cutting up a = couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a Kato/IM/Genesis = drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work. =20 IM surely realizes that their doing the F3 would compete direcly with = Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not = yet). The FP7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide = open. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Friends:
 
How about anything.... except = another EMD F=20 series !!!!!
 
Lew
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steve=20 Hoxie
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 = 6:37=20 PM
Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was = Re: [PRR]=20 Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?)

Greg wrote--
>
>You might want=20 to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to offer a = "chicken=20 >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and lettering of = the=20 units and I have agreed.  >I am m going to be a real = NIT-PICKED this=20 time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed >through on the Paint = and=20 Lettering of the Genesis units.
>
Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your = efforts with the=20 manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half of what you tell = them, it=20 will be a nice model.  But do we really need another chicken wire = F3?  I can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either = phase=20 from Stewart.  I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners=20 shell.  Our F3 cup already runneth over. 
 
What I need is a really good FP7.  I can = get one by=20 cutting up a couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a = Kato/IM/Genesis=20 drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work. 
 
IM surely realizes that their doing = the F3=20 would compete direcly with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in = Pennsy=20 colors (at least not yet).  The FP7 market, with additional roads = besides=20 Pennsy, is wide open.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:37:45 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg wrote-- > >You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going = to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint = and lettering of the units and I have agreed. >I am m going to be a = real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed = >through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the manufacturers. = If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it will be a nice = model. But do we really need another chicken wire F3? I can come up = with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from Stewart. I can = do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Our F3 cup already = runneth over.=20 What I need is a really good FP7. I can get one by cutting up a couple = of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a Kato/IM/Genesis drive--but = that is expensive and a lot of work. =20 IM surely realizes that their doing the F3 would compete direcly with = Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not = yet). The FP7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide = open. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg wrote--
>
>You might want to=20 hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to offer a "chicken = >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and lettering of = the units=20 and I have agreed.  >I am m going to be a real NIT-PICKED this = time and=20 not allow the 3 errors that squeezed >through on the Paint and = Lettering of=20 the Genesis units.
>
Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts = with the=20 manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, = it will=20 be a nice model.  But do we really need another chicken wire = F3?  I=20 can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from=20 Stewart.  I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners = shell.  Our=20 F3 cup already runneth over. 
 
What I need is a really good FP7.  I can = get one by=20 cutting up a couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a = Kato/IM/Genesis=20 drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work. 
 
IM surely realizes that their doing = the F3 would=20 compete direcly with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy = colors=20 (at least not yet).  The FP7 market, with additional roads besides = Pennsy,=20 is wide open.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

 ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:51:32 -0600 Steve wrote-- I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Steve, What would you use for decals? I would like to build a few different F3 variations, but I haven't found suitable decals. Andy Cich ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] H10s on Lines East Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:20:36 -0500 The Long Island Rail Road's 100-series 2-8-0's were H10's as well. Can't get any further East than that! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "'Jerry Britton'" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 3:31 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] H10s on Lines East After WWII, the H's roamed the whole system. For instance, I believe that Don Ball shows an H8 pasing through N. Philadelphia in his PRR color photo book. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:38 PM o: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia Division I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:34:43 -0500 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] Railway Express X29 Hi All, Does anyone know what the PRR "E" or negative number is for this photo? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/X29_REA.jpg Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:34:43 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Railway Express X29 Hi All, Does anyone know what the PRR "E" or negative number is for this photo? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/X29_REA.jpg Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:36:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] CABIN CAR YELLOW HANDRAILS?? Dick, I suggest looking at the many color photos in the fantasic color books that have been published in recent years to have your questions answered.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:39:30 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Brake test air line question From: William Ayers I was just studying a yard map of the Crestline facility and in several locations there are air lines for testing the air brakes on trains prior to leaving the yard. Some of these pipes are in rather remote locations, not near the roundhouse or any other out building of any consequence. In any busy terminal, quite a few number of trains would be leaving at any given time, and it seems that there would be a large demand for compressed air. My question is, what sort of compressor was generally used, and where would it be located, and would it be dedicated to air brake testing, or a general supply of air for other purposes as well? TIA -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:40:10 -0500 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] nickel silver round stock found Hi All, I found and ordered the nickel silver round stock here. www.houseoftools.com I am making custom tender drawbar pins. My J-1 has a 210F84 tender that is a larger diameter then all previous tenders. SO, I need different pins for the 2 extra tenders I bought to put them in general service. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:35:28 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East --part1_11e.1f329289.2b9e9760_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry & List. I can not recall where I read it but I thought that the H8 class was built by Juniata. All the sub-classes were H8 upgrades and conversions. The H9 class were all converted from some H8 & H8 sub-classes. I think some of the H8 class or a sub-class were built by one of the other builders of which I do not recall. The H10 was a Lines west design when built as they had centered headlights and extensions on the tender coal bunker sides. Juniata, Baldwin & Lima built H10's. Some of H9 classes & H8 classes were rebuilt into H10's also. All were scattered over the system due to WWII demands. The front ends of the Lines West style H10's losing that identity to the Std Lines East style during some period but do know when. Pat McKinney --part1_11e.1f329289.2b9e9760_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry & List.
    I can not recall where I read it but I thought that the H= 8 class was built by Juniata. All the sub-classes were H8 upgrades and conve= rsions. The H9 class were all converted from some H8 & H8 sub-classes. I= think some of the H8 class or a sub-class were built by one of the other bu= ilders of which I do not recall.
  The H10 was a Lines west design when built as they had centered headl= ights and extensions on the tender coal bunker sides. Juniata, Baldwin &= Lima built H10's. Some of H9 classes & H8 classes were rebuilt into H10= 's also. All were scattered over the system due to WWII demands. The front e= nds of the Lines West style H10's losing that identity to the Std Lines East= style during some period but do know when.

Pat McKinney --part1_11e.1f329289.2b9e9760_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:37:26 EST Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make --part1_7d.3635ada8.2b9e97d6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What's wrong with the Atlas FP7?? I'm curious as I acquired one by happenstance and would like to correct any and all problems before I put it on my railroad. Thanks in advance, Chris Baker #1918 --part1_7d.3635ada8.2b9e97d6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What's wrong with the Atlas FP7??  I'm curious as= I acquired one by happenstance and would like to correct any and all proble= ms before I put it on my railroad.

Thanks in advance,
Chris Baker #1918 --part1_7d.3635ada8.2b9e97d6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:38:49 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online --part1_22.376a22d5.2b9e9829_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2003 7:35:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > With credit to Doug Kisala (for providing a photocopy), I have posted to the > Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form > MP229, Assignment of Locomotives. > Is there a trick to opening or downloading this? I click on it and do not see anything. A message that says "downloading" appears for a few seconds, it changes to "done", and the screen stays blank. I do have Acrobat Reader on my system and it is working for other files. Any ideas? --part1_22.376a22d5.2b9e9829_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/10/2003 7:35:03 AM Eastern Standa= rd Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes:


With credit to Doug Kisala (for= providing a photocopy), I have posted to the
Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form
MP229, Assignment of Locomotives.

Is there a trick to opening or downloading this? I click on it and do not se= e anything. A message that says "downloading" appears for a few seconds, it=20= changes to "done", and the screen stays blank.

I do have Acrobat Reader on my system and it is working for other files.

Any ideas?


 --part1_22.376a22d5.2b9e9829_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:58:45 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online --part1_f.c40a9cd.2b9e9cd5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2003 8:38:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, LeeRainey writes: Cancel this inquiry! I licked it. What a fantastic tool! Lee Rainey > > >> With credit to Doug Kisala (for providing a photocopy), I have posted to >> the >> Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form >> MP229, Assignment of Locomotives. >> > Is there a trick to opening or downloading this? --part1_f.c40a9cd.2b9e9cd5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/10/2003 8:38:49 PM Eastern Standa= rd Time, LeeRainey writes:

Cancel this inquiry! I licked it. What a fantastic tool!

Lee Rainey


With credit to Doug Kisala (for= providing a photocopy), I have posted to the
Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form
MP229, Assignment of Locomotives.

Is there a trick to opening or downloading this?


 --part1_f.c40a9cd.2b9e9cd5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] H27 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:12:23 -0500 Bruce F. Smith asked: I wonder how easy the [Class H27] car would be to kitbash in HO from one of the existing (Athearn, Atlas, MDC, Stewart...) or pending (Accurail) offset hoppers? There's a picture of a conversion based on the Athearn offset quad that Dick Flock did some time back on page 150 of Teichmoeller. Looks like the main work for this conversion consists of: - Lengthening the body; - Converting the offset taper from stepped to long; - Modifying the hoppers to match the six bay configuration; - Modeling the prototype's cast bolster assembly (similar to those found on Class H30/H32 covered hoppers) - Modifying the ends with three "H25 type" end verticals The Athearn offset quad provides the base body, and a total of three bodies will provide the three paired hoppers for the six bays. The side rivet patterns don't match exactly, but they do exhibit the double rows and 11 ribs of the prototype. The offset taper will have to be changed - the trick is to change the taper and add 5 feet on each end to get a 47 ft IL car. I'd have to check the Stewart offset triple if it can provide the extra length - it does have the long taper. The prototype does have a riveted steel strip running above the hoppers - matching this should hide the surgery producing the six hopper bays. I'd model a load to avoid having to match the interior. The bolsters look like a reasonable scratchbuilding project - I'm having trouble with stealing them from a resin H30 kit for a single car, and I'm hesitant to attempt ordering individual parts from Funaro. The "H25 type" end verticals should be easy to match. Now you've got ME wanting to try this kitbash! Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: [PRR] Withers Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 8: GP7s & GP9s Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:43:14 -0600 I was over at Withers web site, and in the "What's New" section I noticed they have the book I referred to in the subject line listed. Scheduled delivery is 7/18/03. I haven't seen this mentioned on the list yet so I thought I'd bring it up. Andy Cich ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:44:42 -0600 Andy Cich asked-- > > What would you use for decals? I would like to build a few different F3 > variations, but I haven't found suitable decals. > I use Champ EH-78F. I know they are slightly too wide, but it was all we had until Microscale came out with their latest, but they aren't perfect either. Maybe the situation will get better, but with Champ's impending demise, probably not. It is a forced compromise. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:58:01 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01C2E760.E1C05470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris Baker asked-- > >What's wrong with the Atlas FP7?? I'm curious as I acquired one by = happenstance and would like >to correct any and all problems before I = put it on my railroad. > I have one, too. The Atlas/ER FP7 was great in 1980. Now it suffers = from our seeing how good Stewart, Genesis/Highliners, and IM can do it. = The cab windshields are the wrong shape, the small details lack the = sharpness of current models, and the design at the rear of the shell = makes it nearly impossible to close couple. Depending on which version = you have, a 36' dynamic brake fan must be added. The pilot must also be = replaced but that is now relatively simple with the IM part. No doubt = others can add to this list. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01C2E760.E1C05470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris Baker asked--
>
>What's wrong with the Atlas = FP7??  I'm=20 curious as I acquired one by happenstance and would like >to correct = any and=20 all problems before I put it on my railroad.
>
I have one, too.  The Atlas/ER FP7 = was great=20 in 1980.  Now it suffers from our seeing how good Stewart,=20 Genesis/Highliners, and IM can do it.  The cab windshields are the = wrong=20 shape, the small details lack the sharpness of current models, and the = design at=20 the rear of the shell makes it nearly impossible to close couple. =20 Depending on which version you have, a 36' dynamic brake fan must be=20 added.  The pilot must also be replaced but that is now relatively = simple=20 with the IM part.  No doubt others can add to this = list.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


 ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01C2E760.E1C05470-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 01:45:32 EST Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make --part1_1d8.4db8f60.2b9ee00c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Hoxie write... > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the manufacturers. If > IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it will be a nice model. > But do we really need another chicken wire F 3? > What I need is a really good FP-7. > IM surely realizes that their doing the F 3 would compete directly with > Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not > yet). The FP-7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide open. > > Steve Hoxie > Pensacola FL Steve, I understand, but the F 3 was their idea and not mine. But I will say that on our last survey I handed over to Ed Ryan before he left Athearn it was dead even with F 3 phase 2 early and the F 7 phase 1. I just agreed to help. I want to improve their understanding of the PRR's paint colors and correct the lettering and stripe layout. I hope that if I can get enough information out on DGLE we can standardize the industry a bit and have no more misconceptions of the color. I am sure Marty has heard enough about the need for an FP-7 so he doesn't need to hear it from me. But I will mention it. Greg Martin --part1_1d8.4db8f60.2b9ee00c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve Hoxie write...

Greg--I for one greatly appreci= ate your efforts with the manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half=20= of what you tell them, it will be a nice model.  But do we really need=20= another chicken wire F 3? <Snip>


What I need is a really good FP= -7.  <Snip>
IM surely realizes that their doing the F 3 would compete directly with Gene= sis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not yet).&nbs= p; The FP-7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide open.
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Steve,
I understand, but the F 3 was their idea and not mine. But I will say that o= n our last survey I handed over to Ed Ryan before he left Athearn it was dea= d even with F 3 phase 2 early and the F 7 phase 1. I just agreed to help. I=20= want to improve their understanding of the PRR's paint colors and correct th= e lettering and stripe layout. I hope that if I can get enough information o= ut on DGLE we can standardize the industry a bit and have no more misconcept= ions of the color.

I am sure Marty has heard enough about the need for an FP-7 so he doesn't ne= ed to hear it from me.  But I will mention it.

Greg Martin --part1_1d8.4db8f60.2b9ee00c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:19:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3130208376_9631865 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 3/10/03 8:38 PM, "LeeRainey@aol.com" wrote: > Is there a trick to opening or downloading this? I click on it and do not see > anything. A message that says "downloading" appears for a few seconds, it > changes to "done", and the screen stays blank. > > I do have Acrobat Reader on my system and it is working for other files. > > No idea. I downloaded it remotely myself yesterday and it worked fine. Anyone else having a problem? The file size is only 2.2 MB. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3130208376_9631865 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online</TITL= E> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">On 3/10/03 8:38 PM, "LeeRainey@aol.com" <= LeeRainey@aol.com> wrote:<BR> <BR> </FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Is there a trick to op= ening or downloading this? I click on it and do not see anything. A message = that says "downloading" appears for a few seconds, it changes to &= quot;done", and the screen stays blank.<BR> <BR> I do have Acrobat Reader on my system and it is working for other files.<BR= > <BR> </FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><BR> </FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">No idea. I downloaded it remotely myself= yesterday and it worked fine. Anyone else having a problem? The file size i= s only 2.2 MB.<BR> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<BR> Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com  &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS<BR> <BR> "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of <BR> Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana <BR> products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs", <BR> the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-<BR> Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are <BR> providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit <BR> our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.<BR> ------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------<BR> </FONT> </BODY> </HTML> --B_3130208376_9631865-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:21:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Withers Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 8: GP7s From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> On 3/11/03 12:43 AM, "Andy Cich" <ajc5150@insightbb.com> wrote: > I was over at Withers web site, and in the "What's New" section I noticed > they have the book I referred to in the subject line listed. Scheduled > delivery is 7/18/03. I haven't seen this mentioned on the list yet so I > thought I'd bring it up. > <grin> but for those on the "Merchandise Announce" list it was announced weeks ago! Volume one has also been reprinted. Volume two is currently out of print. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" <pgrace@aspects.net> Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:38:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C2E7C2.C3673DB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lew, I agree what about an Alco RSD 15 or RSD 17.=20 Patrick Grace ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lewis J. Matt PhD=20 To: Steve Hoxie ; PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:34 PM Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make = proper HO F-unit decals?) Friends: How about anything.... except another EMD F series !!!!! Lew ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Hoxie=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 6:37 PM Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make = proper HO F-unit decals?) Greg wrote-- > >You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is = going to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the = paint and lettering of the units and I have agreed. >I am m going to be = a real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed = >through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the = manufacturers. If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it = will be a nice model. But do we really need another chicken wire F3? I = can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from = Stewart. I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Our = F3 cup already runneth over.=20 What I need is a really good FP7. I can get one by cutting up a = couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a Kato/IM/Genesis = drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work. =20 IM surely realizes that their doing the F3 would compete direcly = with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least = not yet). The FP7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide = open. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C2E7C2.C3673DB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lew,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I agree what about an Alco RSD 15 or = RSD 17.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Patrick Grace</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dlmatt@alltel.net href=3D"mailto:lmatt@alltel.net">Lewis J. = Matt PhD</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dstevehprr@earthlink.net=20 href=3D"mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net">Steve Hoxie</A> ; <A=20 title=3DPRR-talk@dsop.com = href=3D"mailto:PRR-talk@dsop.com">PRR-talk@dsop.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 10, 2003 = 11:34=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: An FP7 Please! ( = was Re:=20 [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Friends:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>How about anything.... except = another EMD F=20 series !!!!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lew</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dstevehprr@earthlink.net = href=3D"mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net">Steve=20 Hoxie</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3DPRR-talk@dsop.com=20 href=3D"mailto:PRR-talk@dsop.com">PRR-talk@dsop.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 10, 2003 = 6:37=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> An FP7 Please! ( was = Re: [PRR]=20 Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greg wrote--</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">>You might want to hold back for a few months = as=20 Intermountain is going to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have = been ask to=20 assist in the paint and lettering of the units and I have = agreed. =20 >I am m going to be a real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the = 3=20 errors that squeezed >through on the Paint and Lettering of the = Genesis=20 units.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff"=20 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your = efforts with=20 the manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half of what you = tell them,=20 it will be a nice model.  But do we really need another chicken = wire=20 F3?  I can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either = phase=20 from Stewart.  I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners = shell.  Our F3 cup already runneth over. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>What I need is a really good FP7.  I = can get one=20 by cutting up a couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a=20 Kato/IM/Genesis drive--but that is expensive and a lot of = work. =20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>IM surely realizes that their doing = the F3=20 would compete direcly with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not = in Pennsy=20 colors (at least not yet).  The FP7 market, with additional = roads=20 besides Pennsy, is wide open.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Steve Hoxie</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Pensacola FL</FONT></DIV> = <DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C2E7C2.C3673DB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:23:23 +0100 From: Burkhard Sanner <Burkhard.Sanner@geolo.uni-giessen.de> Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer There has been a new release of FP7s announnced by Roco at Nuremberg in February. I have the original Roco leaflet here, and the photos look much better than the old ones sold through Atlas and E-R. They also come with DCC and optional sound decoder. As Roco definitely is able to make very good models, and as in Europe they are known to make improvements almost all the time also on older lines, there might be a chance for a decent model of FP7. Here a link to a German dealer, who has the units listed and some pics. Burkhard Sanner Steve Hoxie schrieb: > Chris Baker asked-->>What's wrong with the Atlas FP7?? > I'm curious as I acquired one by happenstance and would > like >to correct any and all problems before I put it on > my railroad.>I have one, too. The Atlas/ER FP7 was great > in 1980. Now it suffers from our seeing how good Stewart, > Genesis/Highliners, and IM can do it. The cab windshields > are the wrong shape, the small details lack the sharpness > of current models, and the design at the rear of the shell > makes it nearly impossible to close couple. Depending on > which version you have, a 36' dynamic brake fan must be > added. The pilot must also be replaced but that is now > relatively simple with the IM part. No doubt others can > add to this list. Steve HoxiePensacola FL > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:42:48 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@dementia.org> Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, pgrace wrote: > > Lew, > > I agree what about an Alco RSD 15 or RSD 17. What's an RSD17? ;-) The almost-twin to the RSD-15 was the RSD-7. Stewart has been rumored several times to be likely to do one, but not recently. I'd like to see either. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:59:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer I've heard that rumor too about the RSD12s in plastic. I need a few for the east slope. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:02:23 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@dementia.org> Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > > I've heard that rumor too about the RSD12s in plastic. I need a few > for the east slope. Well, there's always the not-correct Atlas RSD-12. The RSD-15 hasn't been attempted in HO since A.C. Gilbert. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:04:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Cresson Info From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Pat McKinney & List: Is there a library or historical society in Cresson that might have photos of the railroad around Cresson circa 1950's? I am looking for photos of structures, elevation plans, etc., and NOT trains themselves. Specifics: Roundhouse Coal wharf Turntable Mech. Shop Oil House Store House Secondarily would be photos of the same for Gallitzin. Specifics: Tunnel Hill Blower Facility, both steam and diesel eras UN AR Diesel Helper facility on loop tracks If not a local library or historical society, where? P.S. Looking for stuff that is NOT published. I have the many Morning Sun Books, Triumph I, etc. Thanks. P.P.S Willing to pay for reprints of worthwhile content. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:19:37 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> This is more of a reflective commentary than a request... My layout will include the yard on the Cresson Secondary at Cresson. This is where all the coal spilled out of all the misc. coal branches that were known as the "C&C" or the "Clearfield Cluster". While all those great photographers where out shooting the main line, its locomotives, etc., it's a shame we don't have similar libraries of the action on the branches...specifically the landscape and structures themselves. There were hundreds of coal tipples in those mountains. Yet we have photos of nearly none. Or they are files away, never to be found, in shoe boxes of people who worked there. Wouldn't you like to see an entire book on the coal mine operations of the Pennsy? If only we could go back 50 years with a digital camera!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" <emyers5@neo.rr.com> Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/10/03 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:57:55 -0500 Bill; Do you know what "era" this was taken??....pre 1945.....46 -53??? Earl Myers ----- Original Message ----- From: "PRR-Talk" <PRR-Talk@dsop.com> To: "PRR-Talk" <PRR-Talk@dsop.com> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 7:40 PM Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/10/03 PRR-Talk Digest - Monday, March 10, 2003 Q2 Duplex in N Scale by "Douglas Nelson" <dougnelson@mindspring.com> Re: [PRR] Q2 Duplex in N Scale by "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online by "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Re: [PRR] GG1's by "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu> Train Antennae and system by "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> Older PRR locomotives by "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> Re: [PRR] Train Antennae and system by "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Panhandle locomotives by "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> H10s on Lines East by "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East by "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> H27 by "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu> RE: [PRR] H10s on Lines East by "Cadwell, Marvin L" <cadwelml@bp.com> CABIN CAR YELLOW HANDRAILS?? by "Richard Poole" <dpoole17@PAnetwork.com> An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-uni by "Steve Hoxie" <stevehprr@earthlink.net> Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F by "Lewis J. Matt PhD" <lmatt@alltel.net> RE: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F by "Andy Cich" <ajc5150@insightbb.com> H10s on Lines East by "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@gtcom.net> Railway Express X29 by "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net> Brake test air line question by "William Ayers" <bprrq2@earthlink.net> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Q2 Duplex in N Scale From: "Douglas Nelson" <dougnelson@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 22:03:13 -0800 The April RMC has an announcement from Key Imports for an N Scale Q2 Duplex. I don't remember this being mentioned on the list, but I may have missed it. Doug Nelson. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Q2 Duplex in N Scale From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 06:20:03 -0500 On 3/10/03 1:03 AM, "Douglas Nelson" <dougnelson@mindspring.com> wrote: > The April RMC has an announcement from Key Imports for an N Scale Q2 Duplex. > I don't remember this being mentioned on the list, but I may have missed it. > Doug: Though the ad may have just appeared, this was actually announced about two years ago. There will be two road numbers -- #6175 and #6131. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 07:27:08 -0500 With credit to Doug Kisala (for providing a photocopy), I have posted to the Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form MP229, Assignment of Locomotives. This document, broken down by division, lists all of the locomotives assigned to it, by road number. This form is very useful to modelers in determining the appropriateness of a newly announced model to the division you are depicting. You can quickly determine if your division had any of the units in question and, if they did, what road numbers they were. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1's From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:52:42 -0600 Norm asks: >I've looked at a lot of pictures of pilots between 4801-4857 and 4858-1936 >and >as near as I can tell the only major difference is the bulge for the drop >coupler on 4858-4936. The steps are the same and the pilot dimensions and >outside shape is the same. It should be a fairly simple conversion to lop >off >the bulge and fill in the area with a styrene plug that is straight >accross and >repaint. Has anybody tried this? Thanks, Norm Bell I would have to agree that it doesn't look like that hard a "bash"...one reason I haven't made a bigger fuss about BLI's mix up with numbers <G>. The funny thing is that I've never seen the bash described anywhere. You could certainly do it on the IHC Premier GG1. I'm waiting to see how the BLI GG1 goes together to see if it would be easier to simply make one pilot and cast it to replace the pilots on a "fleet" or if it will be necessary to modify each one. Better still would be if BLI came out with the flat pilot version! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Train Antennae and system From: "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:52:50 -0800 (PST) Anyone know the date the train telephone system was installed on the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle? There must be a date before installation when no locomotives or cabin cars would have the antennae, another period where you would see some with and some without, and a final date where all locomotives/cabin cars assigned to that part of the railroad would be so equipped. Thanks. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Older PRR locomotives From: "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:59:03 -0800 (PST) Any suggestions on commonly available HO steam locomotives readily convertible to older PRR prototypes? Specifically, older B,D,E,F,G and H classes, especially those that may have run on Panhandle rails between Pittsburgh and Mingo Junction. I have been told that the MDC/Roundhouse E-6 is undersize--is it close to one of the previous E classes? Thanks in advance. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Train Antennae and system From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:04:06 -0500 On 3/10/03 1:52 PM, Ronald Di Orio (prr2249@yahoo.com) wrote: > Anyone know the date the train telephone system was > installed on the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of > the Panhandle? There must be a date before > installation when no locomotives or cabin cars would > have the antennae, another period where you would see > some with and some without, and a final date where all > locomotives/cabin cars assigned to that part of the > railroad would be so equipped. Thanks. Ron > I don't have a direct answer for you, but clues would be contained in the "MP229 Assignment of Locomotives" documents. The listing of locos for each division indicates which have trainphones or radios. This morning I posted a 1954 edition to Keystone Crossings. Right underneath the link to the file for the 1954 edition are links to 1944 and 1957 editions on other sites. I doubt there was ever a time when all locos in a division were so equipped. Hope this helps! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Panhandle locomotives From: "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:04:52 -0800 (PST) Anyone know of a source/list of locomotives that ran on or were assigned to the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle. I am aware of the 229's published at Keystone Crossings. I have not had much luck in uncovering other 229's or photographs of locomotives lettered for the P C & St.L, the P C C & St. L, or Pennsylvania Lines locomotives that can definitely be proven to have been assigned to this section of the PRR. Any help or directions will be greatly appreciated. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: H10s on Lines East From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:26:27 -0500 A few years back Key Imports announced (but has yet to produce) a rerun of H8 / H9 / H10 locomotives in N scale. I did some brief research at the time, to see which would be appropriate for my "Eastern Region" layout. >From very basic sources, I came to the conclusion that the H8's and H10's were "Lines West" locomotives, so I didn't plan on ordering these locomotives. While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia Division. Guess I better get my name into the queue in case these are ever made! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:38:21 -0500 On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the > list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to > the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia > Division. > I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: H27 From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:44:28 -0600 Okay campers, Has anyone here attempted a PRR H27? I had one of those "danger" moments last night while looking for something else in Pennsy Power III, and I came accross the photo of the only (?) offset PRR hopper, the 6 bay H27! A neat car at 90 tons, and 50.5' coupled length. I know that there is a photo in Teichmoeller's book. I wonder how easy the car would be to kitbash in HO from one of the existing (Athearn, Atlas, MDC, Stewart...) or pending (Accurail) offset hoppers? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] H10s on Lines East From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" <cadwelml@bp.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:31:11 -0600 After WWII, the H's roamed the whole system. For instance, I believe that Don Ball shows an H8 pasing through N. Philadelphia in his PRR color photo book. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:38 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the > list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to > the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia > Division. > I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: CABIN CAR YELLOW HANDRAILS?? From: "Richard Poole" <dpoole17@PAnetwork.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:21:49 -0500 QUESTION: In Jan. of 1949, PRR authorized the painting of the corner handrails on N-5b cabins, CHROME YELLOW. My question is exactly how much of the handrail was painted YELLOW? CORNER, CURVED HANDRAIL: Was the entire handrail painted YELLOW, end-to-end? CORNER STRAIGHT HANDRAIL that bends inward under the end wondow: How much of this one is painted? Just to the bend or all the way to the door?? CORNER HANDRAIL ON CORNER POST: I am assuming that this one was painted in it's entirety?? THANKS!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?) From: "Steve Hoxie" <stevehprr@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:37:45 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg wrote-- > >You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going = to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint = and lettering of the units and I have agreed. >I am m going to be a = real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed = >through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the manufacturers. = If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it will be a nice = model. But do we really need another chicken wire F3? I can come up = with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from Stewart. I can = do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Our F3 cup already = runneth over.=20 What I need is a really good FP7. I can get one by cutting up a couple = of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a Kato/IM/Genesis drive--but = that is expensive and a lot of work. =20 IM surely realizes that their doing the F3 would compete direcly with = Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not = yet). The FP7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide = open. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greg wrote--</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">>You might want to=20 hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to offer a "chicken = >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and lettering of = the units=20 and I have agreed.  >I am m going to be a real NIT-PICKED this = time and=20 not allow the 3 errors that squeezed >through on the Paint and = Lettering of=20 the Genesis units.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts = with the=20 manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, = it will=20 be a nice model.  But do we really need another chicken wire = F3?  I=20 can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from=20 Stewart.  I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners = shell.  Our=20 F3 cup already runneth over. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>What I need is a really good FP7.  I can = get one by=20 cutting up a couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a = Kato/IM/Genesis=20 drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>IM surely realizes that their doing = the F3 would=20 compete direcly with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy = colors=20 (at least not yet).  The FP7 market, with additional roads besides = Pennsy,=20 is wide open.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Steve Hoxie</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Pensacola FL</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?) From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" <lmatt@alltel.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:34:44 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Friends: How about anything.... except another EMD F series !!!!! Lew ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Hoxie=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 6:37 PM Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make = proper HO F-unit decals?) Greg wrote-- > >You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is = going to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the = paint and lettering of the units and I have agreed. >I am m going to be = a real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed = >through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the = manufacturers. If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it = will be a nice model. But do we really need another chicken wire F3? I = can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from = Stewart. I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Our = F3 cup already runneth over.=20 What I need is a really good FP7. I can get one by cutting up a = couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a Kato/IM/Genesis = drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work. =20 IM surely realizes that their doing the F3 would compete direcly with = Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not = yet). The FP7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide = open. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Friends:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>How about anything.... except = another EMD F=20 series !!!!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lew</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dstevehprr@earthlink.net = href=3D"mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net">Steve=20 Hoxie</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3DPRR-talk@dsop.com=20 href=3D"mailto:PRR-talk@dsop.com">PRR-talk@dsop.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 10, 2003 = 6:37=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> An FP7 Please! ( was = Re: [PRR]=20 Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greg wrote--</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">>You might want=20 to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to offer a = "chicken=20 >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and lettering of = the=20 units and I have agreed.  >I am m going to be a real = NIT-PICKED this=20 time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed >through on the Paint = and=20 Lettering of the Genesis units.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your = efforts with the=20 manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half of what you tell = them, it=20 will be a nice model.  But do we really need another chicken wire = F3?  I can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either = phase=20 from Stewart.  I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners=20 shell.  Our F3 cup already runneth over. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>What I need is a really good FP7.  I can = get one by=20 cutting up a couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a = Kato/IM/Genesis=20 drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>IM surely realizes that their doing = the F3=20 would compete direcly with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in = Pennsy=20 colors (at least not yet).  The FP7 market, with additional roads = besides=20 Pennsy, is wide open.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Steve Hoxie</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Pensacola FL</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?) From: "Andy Cich" <ajc5150@insightbb.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:51:32 -0600 Steve wrote-- I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Steve, What would you use for decals? I would like to build a few different F3 variations, but I haven't found suitable decals. Andy Cich ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: H10s on Lines East From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@gtcom.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:20:36 -0500 The Long Island Rail Road's 100-series 2-8-0's were H10's as well. Can't get any further East than that! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" <cadwelml@bp.com> To: "'Jerry Britton'" <jerry@pennsyrr.com>; "PRR-Talk LIST" <prr-talk@dsop.com> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 3:31 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] H10s on Lines East After WWII, the H's roamed the whole system. For instance, I believe that Don Ball shows an H8 pasing through N. Philadelphia in his PRR color photo book. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:38 PM o: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia Division I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Railway Express X29 From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:34:43 -0500 Hi All, Does anyone know what the PRR "E" or negative number is for this photo? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/X29_REA.jpg Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Brake test air line question From: "William Ayers" <bprrq2@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:39:30 -0600 I was just studying a yard map of the Crestline facility and in several locations there are air lines for testing the air brakes on trains prior to leaving the yard. Some of these pipes are in rather remote locations, not near the roundhouse or any other out building of any consequence. In any busy terminal, quite a few number of trains would be leaving at any given time, and it seems that there would be a large demand for compressed air. My question is, what sort of compressor was generally used, and where would it be located, and would it be dedicated to air brake testing, or a general supply of air for other purposes as well? TIA -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" <cadwelml@bp.com> Subject: RE: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:09:01 -0600 I think some of the Champ (Medium Size Tender ?) Steam Decals will work on the diesels. At lteast they apear more accurate than the lettering supplied with the diesel decals. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Hoxie [mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:45 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?) Andy Cich asked-- > > What would you use for decals? I would like to build a few different F3 > variations, but I haven't found suitable decals. > I use Champ EH-78F. I know they are slightly too wide, but it was all we had until Microscale came out with their latest, but they aren't perfect either. Maybe the situation will get better, but with Champ's impending demise, probably not. It is a forced compromise. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" <pgrace@aspects.net> Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:34:27 -0000 I should have said RSD 12 & 15 not 15 & 17! Patrick Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick J Brashear" <shadow@dementia.org> To: <PRR-Talk@dsop.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 1:42 PM Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?) > On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, pgrace wrote: > > > > > Lew, > > > > I agree what about an Alco RSD 15 or RSD 17. > > What's an RSD17? ;-) > > The almost-twin to the RSD-15 was the RSD-7. Stewart has been rumored > several times to be likely to do one, but not recently. I'd like to see > either. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD <ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com> Subject: RE: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:43:29 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E7ED.580A9870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Chris; You are faced with: reducing the depth of the rear roof overhang to about 3" removing the 48" dynamic brake fan, building up a new pad and replacing with a 36" fan replacing the rear door and frame with the Details West package, adding the rear light adding rear ladder and platform adding Trainphone antennae with conduit down back of unit alongside door frame adding "eyebrow" grabs adding ladder grabs, and if post-'62, right side nose ladder shaving and adding all side grabs at doors and rear corner adding top right roof corner angle grab shaving and replacing exhaust stacks shaving and adding roof lift rings shaving off and replacing the angled number boards (compare them to a photo some time) fixing the window openings in the front windshield area recontouring the headlight housing area adding front m.u if post-'62 cutting off and replacing the pilot and adding bottom corner steps and m.u. hose housings and hoses replacing the miserable drive unit with a decent one (good luck, the wheelbase is much longer than an F-unit) adding a water tank under the chassis in front of the fuel tank if post-'62 at latest: cutting off most of the skirting, fashioning detail, adding fuel fills, water fills, fuel tank sighting gauge, fuel tank supports, replacing battery box cover with one with angled top shaving off horn(s) and replacing with 3-facing-forward-longest-in-center Leslie(?) on right side In fact, there are so many things to do on a DECENT shell. Even the batten strips on this don't look right. You might save yourself the headaches like I did and do some F-units instead using the beautiful offerings out there now. After all, there are DOZENS of good ones out there that can be "Pennsy-ized" with so much less work. P2K GP-7, GP-9, GP-30, C-Liner, Erie-built, SW-9, SW-1200, S-1, SD-7, SD-9 ; Atlas RS-11, S-2, S-4, Stewart F's, DS 4-4-10, S-12, VO, U-25B. Kato GP-35. WOW! Have a great week, Elden -----Original Message----- From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com [mailto:Chrisandbelton2@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 5:37 PM To: lmatt@alltel.net; stevehprr@earthlink.net; PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-uni... What's wrong with the Atlas FP7?? I'm curious as I acquired one by happenstance and would like to correct any and all problems before I put it on my railroad. Thanks in advance, Chris Baker #1918 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E7ED.580A9870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi Chris;</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>You are faced with:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>reducing the depth of the rear roof overhang to about 3"</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>removing the 48" dynamic brake fan, building up a new pad and replacing with a 36" fan</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>replacing the rear door and frame with the Details West package, adding the rear light</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding rear ladder and platform</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding Trainphone antennae with conduit down back of unit alongside door frame</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding "eyebrow" grabs</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding ladder grabs, and if post-'62, right side nose ladder</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>shaving and adding all side grabs at doors and rear corner</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding top right roof corner angle grab</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>shaving and replacing exhaust stacks</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>shaving and adding roof lift rings</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>shaving off and replacing the angled number boards (compare them to a photo some time)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>fixing the window openings in the front windshield area</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>recontouring the headlight housing area</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding front m.u if post-'62</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>cutting off and replacing the pilot and adding bottom corner steps and m.u. hose housings and hoses</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>replacing the miserable drive unit with a decent one (good luck, the wheelbase is much longer than an F-unit)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding a water tank under the chassis in front of the fuel tank</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>if post-'62 at latest: cutting off most of the skirting, fashioning detail, adding fuel fills, water fills, fuel tank sighting gauge, fuel tank supports, replacing battery box cover with one with angled top</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>shaving off horn(s) and replacing with 3-facing-forward-longest-in-center Leslie(?) on right side</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In fact, there are so many things to do on a DECENT shell.  Even the batten strips on this don't look right.  You might save yourself the headaches like I did and do some F-units instead using the beautiful offerings out there now.  After all, there are DOZENS of good ones out there that can be "Pennsy-ized" with so much less work.  P2K GP-7, GP-9, GP-30, C-Liner, Erie-built, SW-9, SW-1200, S-1, SD-7, SD-9 ; Atlas RS-11, S-2, S-4, Stewart F's, DS 4-4-10, S-12, VO, U-25B. Kato GP-35.  WOW!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Have a great week,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Elden</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Chrisandbelton2@aol.com [mailto:Chrisandbelton2@aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 10, 2003 5:37 PM<BR><B>To:</B> lmatt@alltel.net; stevehprr@earthlink.net; PRR-talk@dsop.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-uni...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">What's wrong with the Atlas FP7??  I'm curious as I acquired one by happenstance and would like to correct any and all problems before I put it on my railroad.<BR><BR>Thanks in advance,<BR>Chris Baker #1918</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E7ED.580A9870-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:55:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> On 3/11/03 12:03 PM, Bill Volkmer (bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com) wrote: > Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at > Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually > impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling > down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on > the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a > percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if > not more. > Yes, Bill, it's all your fault! You let us down! We were counting on you! (Just kidding, of course!) But by comparison, there is something like a five volume set of books on Pennsylvania logging. I haven't seen it, so don't flame me just yet! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:55:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> On 3/11/03 12:03 PM, Bill Volkmer (bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com) wrote: > Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at > Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually > impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling > down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on > the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a > percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if > not more. > Yes, Bill, it's all your fault! You let us down! We were counting on you! (Just kidding, of course!) But by comparison, there is something like a five volume set of books on Pennsylvania logging. I haven't seen it, so don't flame me just yet! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" <bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com> Subject: RE: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:03:52 -0500 Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if not more. WDV (Couldn't see the trucks for the weeds) -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:20 AM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster This is more of a reflective commentary than a request... My layout will include the yard on the Cresson Secondary at Cresson. This is where all the coal spilled out of all the misc. coal branches that were known as the "C&C" or the "Clearfield Cluster". While all those great photographers where out shooting the main line, its locomotives, etc., it's a shame we don't have similar libraries of the action on the branches...specifically the landscape and structures themselves. There were hundreds of coal tipples in those mountains. Yet we have photos of nearly none. Or they are files away, never to be found, in shoe boxes of people who worked there. Wouldn't you like to see an entire book on the coal mine operations of the Pennsy? If only we could go back 50 years with a digital camera!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:10:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> On 3/11/03 12:03 PM, Bill Volkmer (bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com) wrote: > Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at > Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually > impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling > down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on > the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a > percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if > not more. > Adding on to my previous post, I want to reaffirm that my original post was "reflective". I was not trying to "blame" the photographers of the day, yourself included. You were, indeed, trying to collect a paycheck. It's only now, 50 years later, that those trying to "recreate" the scene need photos of the environment that the PRR ran in. Nobody, at least not by intention, could have foreseen this need. I certainly am not a professional photographer (I just play one on the Internet), but when I do go out and shoot, since I am digital, I shoot lots of pics I would not have shot on costly film. When I shoot a passing train, I do shoot the locos. But then I shoot as many of the unusual cars as is realistically possible. I also shoot the physical plant. It takes me only about 30 seconds per photo to catalog it into my electronic database and then it is there for the ages (or at least until an EMP explosion smashes all the bits and bytes into meaningless 0's and 1's)! Who knows, maybe my son will one day get wealthy off me! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:19:01 +0000 It's only > now, 50 years later, that those trying to "recreate" the scene need photos > of the environment that the PRR ran in. On the other hand you don't need to worry about some rivet counter saying the paint is wrong or the building is 4" to short! > On 3/11/03 12:03 PM, Bill Volkmer (bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com) wrote: > > > Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at > > Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually > > impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling > > down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on > > the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a > > percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if > > not more. > > > Adding on to my previous post, I want to reaffirm that my original post was > "reflective". I was not trying to "blame" the photographers of the day, > yourself included. You were, indeed, trying to collect a paycheck. It's only > now, 50 years later, that those trying to "recreate" the scene need photos > of the environment that the PRR ran in. Nobody, at least not by intention, > could have foreseen this need. > > I certainly am not a professional photographer (I just play one on the > Internet), but when I do go out and shoot, since I am digital, I shoot lots > of pics I would not have shot on costly film. When I shoot a passing train, > I do shoot the locos. But then I shoot as many of the unusual cars as is > realistically possible. I also shoot the physical plant. It takes me only > about 30 seconds per photo to catalog it into my electronic database and > then it is there for the ages (or at least until an EMP explosion smashes > all the bits and bytes into meaningless 0's and 1's)! > > Who knows, maybe my son will one day get wealthy off me! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" <cadwelml@bp.com> Subject: RE: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:30:21 -0600 There are some rather definitive books on coal mining and coal mining towns, particularly Ohio and West Virginia. The two books I have in my possession are NOT by rail fans. Apparently, they are written by historians, but they include many pictures of the mines, company towns, houses, and railroad facilities that capture the atmosphere and flavor of the era. Unfortunately, I've seen nothing comparable on Pennsylvania. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 11:10 AM To: Bill Volkmer; PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster On 3/11/03 12:03 PM, Bill Volkmer (bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com) wrote: > Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at > Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually > impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling > down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on > the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a > percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if > not more. > Adding on to my previous post, I want to reaffirm that my original post was "reflective". I was not trying to "blame" the photographers of the day, yourself included. You were, indeed, trying to collect a paycheck. It's only now, 50 years later, that those trying to "recreate" the scene need photos of the environment that the PRR ran in. Nobody, at least not by intention, could have foreseen this need. I certainly am not a professional photographer (I just play one on the Internet), but when I do go out and shoot, since I am digital, I shoot lots of pics I would not have shot on costly film. When I shoot a passing train, I do shoot the locos. But then I shoot as many of the unusual cars as is realistically possible. I also shoot the physical plant. It takes me only about 30 seconds per photo to catalog it into my electronic database and then it is there for the ages (or at least until an EMP explosion smashes all the bits and bytes into meaningless 0's and 1's)! Who knows, maybe my son will one day get wealthy off me! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD <ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com> Subject: RE: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:36:13 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E7FD.181E5B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On one of my photographic expeditions long ago, I went to try and photograph some of the branches, including the Cresson secondary, Southwest branch, Latrobe, Greensburg, etc. I had some maps, although not many USGS or equivalent (1:24000). After many hours of driving around futilely, and following tracks aimlessly with the hope that I'd find something, I only had to show for it: some photos of the C&I and PRR bridges crossing the roads, and some marshalling yard shots. No trains, no nothing. The tipples were usually off some dirt road not even on the map. It was discouraging, to say the least. I then went back to the main, where I photographed many trains, the mills around Johnstown, the yard at Conemaugh, with LOTS of diesels in it, and quenched my thirst to boot. I wish now I had been a little more resourceful or tougher about it, but I wasn't. Limited time, limited film, limited money. The same even went for my home branches, on which I got very little photographically. I don't think there was a Winston Link on my branch! But think of all the great stuff we DO have. Elden -----Original Message----- From: Bill Volkmer [mailto:bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:04 AM To: 'Jerry Britton'; 'PRR-Talk LIST' Subject: RE: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if not more. WDV (Couldn't see the trucks for the weeds) -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:20 AM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster This is more of a reflective commentary than a request... My layout will include the yard on the Cresson Secondary at Cresson. This is where all the coal spilled out of all the misc. coal branches that were known as the "C&C" or the "Clearfield Cluster". While all those great photographers where out shooting the main line, its locomotives, etc., it's a shame we don't have similar libraries of the action on the branches...specifically the landscape and structures themselves. There were hundreds of coal tipples in those mountains. Yet we have photos of nearly none. Or they are files away, never to be found, in shoe boxes of people who worked there. Wouldn't you like to see an entire book on the coal mine operations of the Pennsy? If only we could go back 50 years with a digital camera!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E7FD.181E5B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2652.35"> <TITLE>RE: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster

On one of my photographic expeditions long ago, I = went to try and photograph some of the branches, including the Cresson = secondary, Southwest branch, Latrobe, Greensburg, etc.  I had some = maps, although not many USGS or equivalent (1:24000).  After many = hours of driving around futilely, and following tracks aimlessly with = the hope that I'd find something, I only had to show for it: some = photos of the C&I and PRR bridges crossing the roads, and some = marshalling yard shots.  No trains, no nothing.  The tipples = were usually off some dirt road not even on the map.  It was = discouraging, to say the least.

I then went back to the main, where I photographed = many trains, the mills around Johnstown, the yard at Conemaugh, with = LOTS of diesels in it, and quenched my thirst to boot.

I wish now I had been a little more resourceful or = tougher about it, but I wasn't.  Limited time, limited film, = limited money.  The same even went for my home branches, on which = I got very little photographically.  I don't think there was a = Winston Link on my branch!

But think of all the great stuff we DO have.
Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Volkmer [mailto:bvolkmer@herzogcompa= nies.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:04 AM
To: 'Jerry Britton'; 'PRR-Talk LIST'
Subject: RE: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster


Did YOU ever try to drive around that area?  = Other than a crossing at
Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. = the area was virtually
impossible to access.  Why troop through that = slime to shoot falling
down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every = five minutes out on
the main with the same power and same cars = etc.?  Gas cost just as big a
percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days = as it does today, if
not more.

WDV  (Couldn't see the trucks for the = weeds)

-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On = Behalf Of Jerry
Britton
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:20 AM
To: PRR-Talk LIST
Subject: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster


This is more of a reflective commentary than a = request...

My layout will include the yard on the Cresson = Secondary at Cresson.
This is where all the coal spilled out of all the = misc. coal branches
that were known as the "C&C" or the = "Clearfield Cluster".

While all those great photographers where out = shooting the main line,
its locomotives, etc., it's a shame we don't have = similar libraries of
the action on the branches...specifically the = landscape and structures
themselves.

There were hundreds of coal tipples in those = mountains. Yet we have
photos of nearly none. Or they are files away, never = to be found, in
shoe boxes of people who worked there.

Wouldn't you like to see an entire book on the coal = mine operations of
the Pennsy?

If only we could go back 50 years with a digital = camera!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member, = PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N = Scale. "Keystone
Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" = mailing list!
    http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad = products...
    http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com


---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.


---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E7FD.181E5B60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:48:05 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Bill Volkmer wrote: > Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Yes, several times:-) > Other than a crossing at > Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually > impossible to access. Certainly shooting all of it would be hard but there are more than a few pieces of lines which are easily accessible from roads (well, were, now there's a lot more bare right of way then there was) > Why troop through that slime to shoot falling > down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on > the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a > percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if > not more. I just got back from Europe. Gas here is free. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:51:56 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, ELDEN GATWOOD wrote: > On one of my photographic expeditions long ago, I went to try and photograph > some of the branches, including the Cresson secondary, Southwest branch, > Latrobe, Greensburg, etc. I had some maps, although not many USGS or > equivalent (1:24000). After many hours of driving around futilely, and If you're tech-savvy enough to pull it off, I recommend a laptop with USGS maps, and a GPS receiver. In defense of my earlier statement (the "yes i did" one) most of my earlier exploring was done not only with no GPS receiver or laptop, but with *no map*. It saves time to have a GPS receiver and a laptop, because now I know if this country lane leads somewhere or to nothing, but time is worth more now than when I was on summer break in high school, or when I was blowing off classes at college;-) You can find the stuff without any map if you have a decent sense of geography and direction and you just wander around. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:54:18 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster Jerry et. al. For photos of the tipples and collaries you might want to contact the Coal Heirtage Museum in Windber. They have a rather large colletion of books and photos related to coal mining in PA. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:57:09 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster Jerry I agree 100% concerning lack of photographs of coal operations. Around here (Burgettstown, PA) when I grew up in the 50's and 60's you couldn't go more than about 5 miles without running into another tipple or strip mine operation. Most of the towns on the branches and secondaries were named after the mine (Bertha Mine, Louise Mine, Francis Mine, Erie Mine, Burgettstown Coal, etc.) and other than the merchants in town, almost everybody worked for one of the three legs of the industrial stool--the mines, the steel mills, or the railroads. Yet photos of any of these structures are practically nonexistant, and they are all gone now. Also, unfortunately, those photos that surface after being hidden away in some shoebox normally focus on the people rather than the facilities. But I can understand why few photographs were taken, i.e., why waste expensive film on something everyone assumed would always be there? If someone had suggested that someday the triple-track main line of the PRR from Pittsburgh to St. Louis would be totally abandoned he would have been viewed as crazy. Ron --- Jerry Britton wrote: > This is more of a reflective commentary than a > request... > > My layout will include the yard on the Cresson > Secondary at Cresson. This is > where all the coal spilled out of all the misc. coal > branches that were > known as the "C&C" or the "Clearfield Cluster". > > While all those great photographers where out > shooting the main line, its > locomotives, etc., it's a shame we don't have > similar libraries of the > action on the branches...specifically the landscape > and structures > themselves. > > There were hundreds of coal tipples in those > mountains. Yet we have photos > of nearly none. Or they are files away, never to be > found, in shoe boxes of > people who worked there. > > Wouldn't you like to see an entire book on the coal > mine operations of the > Pennsy? > > If only we could go back 50 years with a digital > camera!!! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N > Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" > mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:15:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster From: Jerry Britton On 3/11/03 1:51 PM, Derrick J Brashear (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: > If you're tech-savvy enough to pull it off, I recommend a laptop with USGS > maps, and a GPS receiver. In defense of my earlier statement (the "yes i > did" one) most of my earlier exploring was done not only with no GPS > receiver or laptop, but with *no map*. It saves time to have a GPS > receiver and a laptop, because now I know if this country lane leads > somewhere or to nothing, but time is worth more now than when I was on > summer break in high school, or when I was blowing off classes at > college;-) > And now you can say "I'm totally lost, but I know exactly where I am!" ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:38:10 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster --- Jerry Britton wrote: > But by comparison, there is something like a five volume set of > books on > Pennsylvania logging. I haven't seen it, so don't flame me just > yet! Actually, thirteen volumes, each of approximately 100 pages, plus an add-on volume of similar size reporting information from PA companies which relocated to Maryland, and a general index/errata booklet. Most of them are now available in reprint. Not a flame, intended to inform. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Laird" Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:53:04 -0600 Derrick J Brashear wrote, in part: > If you're tech-savvy enough to pull it off, I recommend a laptop with USGS > maps, and a GPS receiver. For anyone interested in this idea, if you already have a laptop, go by your neighborhood Radio Shack and look at the DigiTraveler. For $ 99 you get a GPS receiver that plugs in the serial port on your laptop and the DeLorme Street Atlas 2003 software. I was amazed at the detail contained in the software, you can zoom in to have your home block fill the entire screen. The software contains all roads, with names, down to your street level, some geographic detail such as lakes and rivers and railroads. DeLorme also sells USGS topo maps on CD that interface to the DigiTraveler. Bill Laird Canyon Lake, Texas ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Randy Williamson" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Marriage Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:36:33 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0147_01C2E805.85DC8F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 7:00 EST two fellow listers exchanged vows (and keystone rings!)=20 Randy Williamson and Dayna Warner were wed before a gathering of friends = and family at a private ceremony. Dayna will be moving her trains and = her business to Wisconsin where they will live and share the business = responsibilities and build a large PRR layout. Mr. & Mrs. Randy Williamson PRRT&HS Members www.trainstuffllc.com ------=_NextPart_000_0147_01C2E805.85DC8F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At 7:00 EST two fellow listers exchanged vows (and = keystone=20 rings!)
Randy Williamson and Dayna Warner were wed before a = gathering=20 of friends and family at a private ceremony. Dayna will be moving her = trains and=20 her business to Wisconsin where they will live and share the business=20 responsibilities and build a large PRR layout.
 
Mr. & Mrs. Randy Williamson
PRRT&HS Members
www.trainstuffllc.com ------=_NextPart_000_0147_01C2E805.85DC8F20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:53:09 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] RE: Pennsy Marriage Randy and Dayna, Congratulations and the best of everything to you both. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Duane C. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cresson Info Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:57:53 -0500 Arcadia Publishing in 1997 published a book titled "Around Cresson and the Alleghenies". There are several photos of the Cresson railroad facilities in the book. Their website is www.arcadiapublishing.com Duane Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:04 AM Subject: [PRR] Cresson Info > Pat McKinney & List: > > Is there a library or historical society in Cresson that might have photos > of the railroad around Cresson circa 1950's? > > I am looking for photos of structures, elevation plans, etc., and NOT trains > themselves. Specifics: > > Roundhouse > Coal wharf > Turntable > Mech. Shop > Oil House > Store House > > Secondarily would be photos of the same for Gallitzin. Specifics: > > Tunnel Hill Blower Facility, both steam and diesel eras > UN > AR > Diesel Helper facility on loop tracks > > If not a local library or historical society, where? > > P.S. Looking for stuff that is NOT published. I have the many Morning Sun > Books, Triumph I, etc. Thanks. > > P.P.S Willing to pay for reprints of worthwhile content. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:22:14 EST Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make pro --part1_139.1c736e3a.2b9fe5c6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2003 11:58:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com writes: > Hi Chris; > You are faced with: > reducing the depth of the rear roof overhang to about 3" > removing the 48" dynamic brake fan, building up a new pad and replacing > with a 36" fan > replacing the rear door and frame with the Details West package, adding > the rear light > adding rear ladder and platform > adding Trainphone antennae with conduit down back of unit alongside door > frame > adding "eyebrow" grabs > adding ladder grabs, and if post-'62, right side nose ladder > shaving and adding all side grabs at doors and rear corner > adding top right roof corner angle grab > shaving and replacing exhaust stacks > shaving and adding roof lift rings > shaving off and replacing the angled number boards (compare them to a > photo some time) > fixing the window openings in the front windshield area > recontouring the headlight housing area > adding front m.u if post-'62 > cutting off and replacing the pilot and adding bottom corner steps and > m.u. hose housings and hoses > replacing the miserable drive unit with a decent one (good luck, the > wheelbase is much longer than an F-unit) > adding a water tank under the chassis in front of the fuel tank > if post-'62 at latest: cutting off most of the skirting, fashioning > detail, adding fuel fills, water fills, fuel tank sighting gauge, fuel tank > supports, replacing battery box cover with one with angled top > shaving off horn(s) and replacing with 3-facing-forward-longest-in-center > Leslie(?) on right side > In fact, there are so many things to do on a DECENT shell. Even the > batten strips on this don't look right. You might save yourself the > headaches like I did and do some F-units instead using the beautiful > offerings out there now. After all, there are DOZENS of good ones out > there that can be "Pennsy-ized" with so much less work. P2K GP-7, GP-9, > GP-30, C-Liner, Erie-built, SW-9, SW-1200, S-1, SD-7, SD-9 ; Atlas RS-11, > S-2, S-4, Stewart F's, DS 4-4-10, S-12, VO, U-25B. Kato GP-35. WOW! > Have a great week, > Elden > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com [mailto:Chrisandbelton2@aol.com] >> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 5:37 PM >> To: lmatt@alltel.net; stevehprr@earthlink.net; PRR-talk@dsop.com >> Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make >> proper HO F-uni... >> >> >> What's wrong with the Atlas FP7?? I'm curious as I acquired one by >> happenstance and would like to correct any and all problems before I put >> it on my railroad. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Chris Baker #1918 > Wow is right! I didn't realize there were so many difficiencies on these models. The reviews I read from the modeling press all seemed favorable. Thanks for the info. Chris --part1_139.1c736e3a.2b9fe5c6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/11/2003 11:58:04 AM Eastern Stand= ard Time, ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com writes:

Hi Chris; You are faced with:
reducing the depth of th= e rear roof overhang to about 3"
removing the 48" dynamic= brake fan, building up a new pad and replacing with a 36" fan
replacing the rear door=20= and frame with the Details West package, adding the rear light
adding rear ladder and p= latform
adding Trainphone antenn= ae with conduit down back of unit alongside door frame
adding "eyebrow" grabs
adding ladder grabs, and= if post-'62, right side nose ladder
shaving and adding all s= ide grabs at doors and rear corner
adding top right roof co= rner angle grab
shaving and replacing ex= haust stacks
shaving and adding roof=20= lift rings
shaving off and replacin= g the angled number boards (compare them to a photo some time)
fixing the window openin= gs in the front windshield area
recontouring the headlig= ht housing area
adding front m.u if post= -'62
cutting off and replacin= g the pilot and adding bottom corner steps and m.u. hose housings and hoses<= /FONT>
replacing the miserable=20= drive unit with a decent one (good luck, the wheelbase is much longer than a= n F-unit)
adding a water tank unde= r the chassis in front of the fuel tank
if post-'62 at latest: c= utting off most of the skirting, fashioning detail, adding fuel fills, water= fills, fuel tank sighting gauge, fuel tank supports, replacing battery box=20= cover with one with angled top
shaving off horn(s) and=20= replacing with 3-facing-forward-longest-in-center Leslie(?) on right side
In fact, there are so ma= ny things to do on a DECENT shell.  Even the batten strips on this don'= t look right.  You might save yourself the headaches like I did and do=20= some F-units instead using the beautiful offerings out there now.  Afte= r all, there are DOZENS of good ones out there that can be "Pennsy-ized" wit= h so much less work.  P2K GP-7, GP-9, GP-30, C-Liner, Erie-built, SW-9,= SW-1200, S-1, SD-7, SD-9 ; Atlas RS-11, S-2, S-4, Stewart F's, DS 4-4-10, S= -12, VO, U-25B. Kato GP-35.  WOW!
Have a great week,
Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com [mailto:Chrisandbelton2@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 5:37 PM
To: lmatt@alltel.net; stevehprr@earthlink.net; PRR-talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer mak= e proper HO F-uni...


What's wrong with the Atlas=20= FP7??  I'm curious as I acquired one by happenstance and would like to=20= correct any and all problems before I put it on my railroad.

Thanks in advance,
Chris Baker #1918



Wow is right!  I didn't realize there were so many difficiencies on the= se models.  The reviews I read from the modeling press all seemed favor= able.  Thanks for the info.

Chris
 --part1_139.1c736e3a.2b9fe5c6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:25:10 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online --part1_1cb.4de188c.2b9fe676_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had the same problem myself. Chris Baker --part1_1cb.4de188c.2b9fe676_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had the same problem myself.

Chris Baker --part1_1cb.4de188c.2b9fe676_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 23:12:19 -0600 Hi Burkhard--Would you send the link to the dealer who has pics of the FP-7? Thanks. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burkhard Sanner" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 7:23 AM Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer makeproper HO F-uni... > There has been a new release of FP7s > announnced by Roco at Nuremberg in > February. I have the original Roco leaflet > here, and the photos look much better than > the old ones sold through Atlas and E-R. > They also come with DCC and optional > sound decoder. As Roco definitely is able > to make very good models, and as in Europe > they are known to make improvements > almost all the time also on older lines, there > might be a chance for a decent model of FP7. > Here a link to a German dealer, who has the > units listed and some pics. > > Burkhard Sanner > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:06:15 +0100 From: Burkhard Sanner Subject: [PRR] PRR/CNJ movie of 1897 Hi all, while browsing the Library of Congress for some other matter, I checked for old PRR stuff and came across the following movie clip by TA Edison, available as online-resource under: http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.mbrsmi/edmp.0881 A bit dark, but gives a feeling of times more than 100 years ago! The 3 MB MPEG gives the best result. Enjoy! Burkhard ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gary Farmer" Subject: [PRR] PRR items for trade Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:34:17 -0500 Hi gang, I currently have several nice PRR pieces for trade. Hardbound editions of "THE PENNSY" from 1955 & 1959 (the 1959 issue is personalized in gold on the front cover to boot). "PENNA RR" Dater dies from the following stations: Overbrook PA Swarthmore PA Chestnut Hill PA "PRSL" dater die from Ocean City NJ Several ANCIENT deed books from the MIDDLE DIVISION when they were buying the land for the new right of way (over the old canals in many instances), replacing the first PRR main line. These books have deeds & drawings from the 1860s to about 1900. What am I looking for in trade? In 2 words: PENN CENTRAL. Dater dies, china, hollowware, police badges, signs, unique items, etc. If you have anything of interest from the PC (outside of the normal switch keys & employee timetables), please contact me off list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:51:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cresson Info From: Jerry Britton On 3/11/03 7:57 PM, Duane C. Miller (dcalvinm@csrlink.net) wrote: > Arcadia Publishing in 1997 published a book titled "Around Cresson and the > Alleghenies". There are several photos of the Cresson railroad facilities > in the book. Their website is www.arcadiapublishing.com > Just ordered it...$16.99. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:40:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Marriage From: Listmaster On 3/11/03 7:36 PM, Randy Williamson (pennsy@vbe.com) wrote: > At 7:00 EST two fellow listers exchanged vows (and keystone rings!) > Randy Williamson and Dayna Warner were wed before a gathering of friends and > family at a private ceremony. Dayna will be moving her trains and her business > to Wisconsin where they will live and share the business responsibilities and > build a large PRR layout. > Well that's a first for any of my lists! Congratulations to you both and best wishes, from the 650+ of us from all over the world! ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:52:25 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Bill Laird wrote: > For anyone interested in this idea, if you already have a laptop, go by your > neighborhood Radio Shack and look at the DigiTraveler. For $ 99 you get a > GPS receiver that plugs in the serial port on your laptop and the DeLorme > Street Atlas 2003 software. I was amazed at the detail contained in the > software, you can zoom in to have your home block fill the entire screen. > The software contains all roads, with names, down to your street level, some > geographic detail such as lakes and rivers and railroads. DeLorme also > sells USGS topo maps on CD that interface to the DigiTraveler. The topos tend to be more useful for following rights of way no longer in use. I use a program called xastir (actually for amateur radio users, but useful even if you're not doing APRS) and standard freely-downloadable USGS topos for this. Sometimes however you'll find errors where something marked "old railroad grade" wasn't, so it's not foolproof. Then there's the surviving right of way for the uncompleted Derry to Donohoe mainline relocation, which also is marked "old railroad grade" when in fact Harumph I got it right: new railroad grade. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Marriage Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:00:13 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01A5_01C2E89F.B3A87140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Congratulations!!! Lew ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Randy Williamson=20 To: PRR-Talk LIST ; PRR-Modeling@egroups.com ; PRR-FAX ; = PENNSYmodeler@yahoogroups.com=20 Cc: MOM ; Master Maker Gnome ; Lynnette ; Howard' S Trains ; Graeme = Nitz ; AlbertSR=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 7:36 PM Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Marriage At 7:00 EST two fellow listers exchanged vows (and keystone rings!)=20 Randy Williamson and Dayna Warner were wed before a gathering of = friends and family at a private ceremony. Dayna will be moving her = trains and her business to Wisconsin where they will live and share the = business responsibilities and build a large PRR layout. Mr. & Mrs. Randy Williamson PRRT&HS Members www.trainstuffllc.com ------=_NextPart_000_01A5_01C2E89F.B3A87140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Congratulations!!!
 
Lew
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Randy = Williamson=20
To: PRR-Talk LIST ; PRR-Modeling@egroups.com = ; PRR-FAX ; = PENNSYmodeler@yahoogroups.c= om=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 = 7:36=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy = Marriage

At 7:00 EST two fellow listers exchanged vows (and = keystone=20 rings!)
Randy Williamson and Dayna Warner were wed before = a=20 gathering of friends and family at a private ceremony. Dayna will be = moving=20 her trains and her business to Wisconsin where they will live and = share the=20 business responsibilities and build a large PRR layout.
 
Mr. & Mrs. Randy Williamson
PRRT&HS Members
www.trainstuffllc.com ------=_NextPart_000_01A5_01C2E89F.B3A87140-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:22:48 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] Older PRR locomotives Ron, In reverse order, your questions. The MDC PRR boiler and cab are very good (excellent proportions) for a PRR E6s. The chassis is incorrect (it's for an ATSF Atlantic); it has different valve gear and the drivers are undersized (to name but two flaws). I created a hybrid using a Bowser E6s chassis and the MDC boiler (see Ron Strachan's excellent article in the September 1978 MR along with Tom Busack's article on detailing E6s engines in the December 1990 MR). As far as older power, I can only think of two possibilities off the top of my head. The first is to purchase one of the Mantua PRR Atlantics. While temporarily out of production (Mantua's model railroad line was recently purchased by Model Power and will return to production), the PRR Atlantic is a good starting point for a PRR E7s (I wanted a model of PRR 8063 as she looked in service before she was backdated and renumbered to stand in for 7002). The second idea is to follow suggestions in the June 1994 MR, which has plans for the PRR A4. The article includes kitbashing suggestions for backdating Bowser's A5s to represent an A4. Doug --- Ronald Di Orio wrote: > Any suggestions on commonly available HO steam > locomotives readily convertible to older PRR > prototypes? Specifically, older B,D,E,F,G and H > classes, especially those that may have run on > Panhandle rails between Pittsburgh and Mingo > Junction. > > > I have been told that the MDC/Roundhouse E-6 is > undersize--is it close to one of the previous E > classes? Thanks in advance. Ron > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:28:28 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO Hello list, Bethlehem Car Works' web site is http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/ Doug --- "L. Heintz" wrote: > The spring 93 Keystone has just about anything you > need to know to detail > an RPO. > So,from previous posts you guys are saying that BCW > makes a good kit, ECW > does not make an RPO or BM and Rivarrossi/AHM 72ft > arch roof is good for > the non-purist. Does BCW have current stock?? > Website ?? > lah > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:54:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Old Panhandle Locomotives While web-surfing looking for info I ran across this web site: http://www.iwaynet.net/~lsci/Panhandle/trains.htm Check it out for some interesting photographs of old Panhandle locomotives. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:54:14 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Old Panhandle Locomotives While web-surfing looking for info I ran across this web site: http://www.iwaynet.net/~lsci/Panhandle/trains.htm Check it out for some interesting photographs of old Panhandle locomotives. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:39:34 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer Burkhard.Sanner@geolo.uni-giessen.de writes: > As Roco definitely is ableto make very good models, and as in Europe they are known to make improvements almost all the time also on older lines, there might be a chance for a decent model of FP7. Here a link to a German dealer, who has the units listed and some pics. > > Burkhard Sanner The first thing I would look for is improvement to the number boards, were they ever corrected? Then we can deal with the windows. The drive is very nice and was the basis for KATA copying it for the F units. Tehn perhaps I can brush up on my German and see if they can correct the Paint and Lettering... 3^) Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Brake test air line question Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:23:41 -0500 There were generally small outbuildings scattered around the yard that contained a small air compressor together with the requisite air storage reservoirs. While the trains were being assembled and tested, a land line was hooked up to them which kept the train reservoirs charged up. These outbuildings frequently also held small quantities of brake shoes,(in winter), cans of oil, waste pack, some tools, lantern batteries, the car knocker's coffee thermos etc. and so forth. This allowed the road engine to take over the train with it already charged up and the crew would just make an apply and release with the Brakeman in the cabin car verifying that the brakes were indeed applied in the cabin signifying that all the air hoses had been connected and the angle cocks turned (open). With the train on standby air, a car inspector could repair leaks on the spot and test the car for leaks after making the repair without the car requiring removal to a shop or delay to the outbound train with the locomotive supplying the air. Sound logical? WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of William Ayers Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 7:40 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Brake test air line question I was just studying a yard map of the Crestline facility and in several locations there are air lines for testing the air brakes on trains prior to leaving the yard. Some of these pipes are in rather remote locations, not near the roundhouse or any other out building of any consequence. In any busy terminal, quite a few number of trains would be leaving at any given time, and it seems that there would be a large demand for compressed air. My question is, what sort of compressor was generally used, and where would it be located, and would it be dedicated to air brake testing, or a general supply of air for other purposes as well? TIA -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Randy Williamson" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Marriage Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:30:42 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C2E8BD.1B904D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We want to thank everyone that congratulated us on our wedding and look = forward to seeing the Lines West listers in Chicago, April, 5th and = everyone at the 2004 PRRT&HS convention in Cincinnati. Dayna & Randy Williamson ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C2E8BD.1B904D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We want to thank everyone that congratulated us = on our=20 wedding and look forward to seeing the Lines West listers in = Chicago,=20 April, 5th and everyone at the 2004 PRRT&HS convention in=20 Cincinnati.
 
Dayna & Randy = Williamson
------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C2E8BD.1B904D60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gary Farmer" Subject: [PRR] testing Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:38:43 -0500 just testing to see if I can send a message to this list ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:53:57 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Service Restored From: Listmaster The lists and web sites at our location are now back in service, and seem stable. Our ISP (Epix) was replacing some hardware last evening and a misconfiguration resulted in a DSL outage in our area. Service was down from approximately 7:00 p.m. last evening until around 9:00 a.m. this morning, then again from around 10:45 a.m. this morning until around 5:45 p.m. this evening. We're sorry if the outage resulted in withdrawal symptoms. You may now resume your addictions! -------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. http://www.dsop.com listmaster@dsop.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:02:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] K4 Bell, List, a bit off topic but is there anyone here who can make a .wav file for me of my K4s Bell being rang? I would send you a short audio cassette recording to you and you can do the rest. I can't make files such as this with my webtv. Contact me off list if you can help. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "mark taylor" Subject: [PRR] Branchline Blueprint and Yardmaster Models Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:25:46 -0500 LIST: In the last several months I have acquired over 24 models in these series (40' and 50' cars), various roads, and purchased through 3 different dealers.In building these models I have come across many broken pieces ( ladders, brake rigging, stirrup steps and side grabs) , poor part fit (ends of the yardmaster kits that leave a gap at the roof line on one end) and paint that didn't adhere to the plastic well (scratches off easily).With the extra effort to fix these problems I do like the end results. It just seems like a lot of work that shouldn't need to be done on a kit that costs what these do. Am I the only unlucky modeler to come across these problems? Anyway the question I have concerns the painting on the last Blueprint cars I bought. Set #16084, 40' 7" door PRR Circle Keystone boxcars , the roofs and roof walk are black with a light misting of freight car red misted around the edges. Set # 10114, 50' PRR single door Circle Keystone boxcars, the roof is painted freight car red and the roof walk is black. Is the painting of these cars prototypical or did Branchline goof. I E-mailed Branchline with this same question and have never received a response. If I do need to paint these pieces is there a paint available that is a close match. Any response would be greatly appreciated. Mark Taylor ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] EP20's Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:08:35 -0500 Gentlemen, I'd like to run some notions (and questions)past the group concerning EP20's. Points for clearification 1. As delivered, painted DGLE with "gold" striping and sometime after 1952+ changed over to "tuscan" with "buff'immitation gold" (getting ready to dodge the flak over those paint names). 2. Trainphones were an "as delivered" item. Question Items such as the nose lift rings, stand off number boards, and changes to the vent configuration (initial Phase 1) style were added/occurred concurrent with the change over in the base color.Keeping in mind that there are exceptionsin the fleet, I am looking for the "typical". Thanks, Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:30:42 -0500 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] EMD builders badge Hi All, I am looking for a good photo or drawing of an early EMD Builder's sheet metal badge for a new release of an S Scale NW2. It is not a cast plate. It is also not the red and blue sheet metal that we are all familiar with. It is supposed to be the predecessor to that plate put on early SW1 and NW2. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net with whatever you may have. Thank You Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:30:42 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] EMD builders badge Hi All, I am looking for a good photo or drawing of an early EMD Builder's sheet metal badge for a new release of an S Scale NW2. It is not a cast plate. It is also not the red and blue sheet metal that we are all familiar with. It is supposed to be the predecessor to that plate put on early SW1 and NW2. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net with whatever you may have. Thank You Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] EP20's Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:16:49 -0600 Walt asked-- > > Question > Items such as the nose lift rings, stand off number boards, and changes to > the vent configuration (initial Phase 1) style were added/occurred > concurrent with the change over in the base color.Keeping in mind that there > are exceptionsin the fleet, I am looking for the "typical". > No flames over the color of the stripes from me. However, your question is looking for the simple answer, but it isn't there. Only judging from photos I have seen: first, vent configuration, then Tuscan red, then number boards. Nose lift rings were installed before or during the vent change; according to Withers Vol. 7, the fourth and last order came from EMD with the nose lift rings (and DGLE and the original vent configuration). Now just to add a little spice to the mix, something you haven't mentioned is the coupler door design. Three significantly different designs plus the later no-door look. Also there is the issue of the paint stripes across the side window glass. The Eleventh Commandment--model a specific engine from a photo. "Typical" was not a Pennsy word. As an aside, the Withers book is a fabulous reference with the only shortcoming being a paucity of photos from the years 1950 to 1955 when all this transition was taking place. Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 04:11:17 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] EP20's --part1_1d8.50c2238.2ba1a535_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt, As Steve points out there was no such word as typical in the PRR roundhouses... > Question > Items such as the nose lift rings, stand off number boards, and changes to > the vent configuration (initial Phase 1) style were added/occurred > concurrent with the change over in the base color. Keeping in mind that > there are exceptions in the fleet, I am looking for the "typical." > > Thanks, > Walt Prusick I did some extensive research on the PRR E-units before Withers book came out and passed the notes along but they were not used in the book at least the edit version I read. Steve correct the book has far less photos from 1950 to 1955 than I would like to have seen. It was made clear that the focus wasn't going to be on the "phases." But tell us more on the date you are planning to model as this will make it easier to narrow down your search for "typical." There were many changes to the E-7's that took place at different times and without an idea from you as to when you wish to model them we can't help. Come on cough it up... 3^) Greg Martin --part1_1d8.50c2238.2ba1a535_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt,

As Steve points out there was no such word as typical in the PRR roundhouses= ...

Question
Items such as the nose lift rings, stand off number boards, and changes to t= he vent configuration (initial Phase 1) style were added/occurred concurrent= with the change over in the base color. Keeping in mind that there are exce= ptions in the fleet, I am looking for the "typical."

Thanks,
Walt Prusick


I did some extensive research on the PRR E-units before Withers book came ou= t and passed the notes along but they were not used in the book at least the= edit version I read. Steve correct the book has far less photos from 1950 t= o 1955 than I would like to have seen.  It was made clear that the focu= s wasn't going to be on the "phases."  But tell us more on the date you= are planning to model as this will make it easier to narrow down your searc= h for "typical." There were many changes to the E-7's that took place at dif= ferent times and without an idea from you as to when you wish to model them=20= we can't help. Come on cough it up... 3^)

Greg Martin --part1_1d8.50c2238.2ba1a535_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:56:55 +0100 From: Burkhard Sanner Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any Steve Hoxie scribit: > Hi Burkhard--Would you send the link to the dealer who has pics of the FP-7? > Thanks. > > Steve Hoxie > Pensacola FL > Sorry, my fault. So here are two sites (you may have to scroll down to the announced FP7): http://home.t-online.de/home/all-american-trains/newe-r.htm http://www.us-trains.com/Eingetroffen/Roco%20H0/diesel.htm#ROCO "H0" Hope this works, Burkhard Sanner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:08:48 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Looking for A Layout to Operate On? From: Jerry Britton Are you looking for a layout to operate on? Are you located near southcentral Pennsylvania? A few months ago I was approached by a group of local Pennsy layout operators about hosting a web site for their operating group -- they share most of their operators and schedule accordingly. I not only set up their site, but was invited to join, even though my layout is still about two years away from operating. One of the layouts is fully built; two are well under construction; then there's mine (20% done). All of the participating layouts feature DCC and similar operating philosophies. All are also seeking additional crew members. If you are interested, please review the web site and contact the owner(s) whose layouts you are interested in. The URL for this group is: http://operators.pennsyrr.com P.S. I added another Pennsy layout to my layouts site. It is John Drye's N scale Northern Central. Enjoy! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] MSTS Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:17:14 +0000 Anybody into MSTS simming of the PRR? Besides the files on train-sim.com are there any other good freebies out there we should be aware of? Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:15:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PS442 vs PS442A From: Jerry Britton There were pre-war and post-war 4-4-2 "Imperial" series passenger cars. The pre-war cars were class PS442A, built to plan 4069D. The post-war cars were built by ACF to plan 9009. The latter were used on many of the Blue Ribbon trains. Can anyone account for -- via photos or consist reports -- where any of the original PS442A's may have been used in the 1950's? Thus far I can only account for where most of the newer cars were assigned. Were any of these used on the north/south routes, perhaps? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:53:48 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PS442 vs PS442A In a message dated 3/13/03 10:20:18 AM Central Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Can anyone account for -- via photos or consist reports -- where any of the original PS442A's may have been used in the 1950's? >> Imperial Crest was listed on the South Wind in 2/1/54 consist. Imperial Crest was moved to the Cincinnatti-Mackinaw City Northern Arrow on April 19, 1954 consist, replacing Imperial Terrace, a 4069-B. On 2/1/54, other 4069-D Imperial cars Lawn, Path, Trail, View, and Mantle were listed as extras for 62-63, 28-29, 61-60, 59-58, and 31-30 4069B cars assigned to the South Wind included Imperial Terrace, Range, and Plateau. 4069B cars Imperial Pass, Park, and Point were in two-tone gray and, though it is hard to decipher the 1954 consist report, I kind of get the idea they were in a rotation pool with the Sante Fe,either in coast-to-coast service or more likely just on a loan basis, one car assigned to the South Wind, two to the Sante Fe. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:54:55 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: Looking for William Emmons From: Listmaster Looking for Mr. William Emmons of New Jersey. The e-mail address I have for you is bad. If you are on the list under a new address, please speak up! If anyone has a new e-mail address for Bill, please forward it. Thanks. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] G22 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:59:56 -0500 Listers, I'm building a Westerfield (original release) G22 gondola for container service. It looks like to make it a G22B I have to change the trucks and brake gear. I assume I can get the brake gear from Cal-scale (AB brakes?) Some one told me I don't need to install the retainer valve with the newer brakes. Is this correct? Anything else I have to do? Thanks Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gary Farmer" Subject: [PRR] Prr railroadiana for trade Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:06:10 -0500 Hi gang, I currently have several nice PRR pieces for trade. Hardbound editions of "THE PENNSY" from 1955 & 1959 (the 1959 issue is personalized in gold on the front cover to boot). "PENNA RR" Dater dies from the following stations: Overbrook PA Swarthmore PA Chestnut Hill PA "PRSL" dater die from Ocean City NJ Several ANCIENT deed books from the MIDDLE DIVISION when they were buying the land for the new right of way (over the old canals in many instances), replacing the first PRR main line. These books have deeds & drawings from the 1860s to about 1900. What am I looking for in trade? In 2 words: PENN CENTRAL. Dater dies, china, hollowware, police badges, signs, unique items, etc. If you have anything of interest from the PC (outside of the normal switch keys & employee timetables), please contact me off list. Gary Farmer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] EP20's Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:58:13 -0500 Greg and all, Still in the planning stages of my system which I will set in the summer of 1952. Should be able to get a good mix of motive power and rolling stock. The only problem I am encountering is that I want to incorporate so much into my available space. Such is life. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] G22 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:57:34 -0700 Chris, I don't believe that this is true...AB brakes did use retainer valves (and AFAK, the current ABD brakes also have them). You can also use AB brakes from Grandt/Details West...the Tichy set does not come with a retainer valve, but that is an oversight. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:59:56 -0500 "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > Listers, > > I'm building a Westerfield (original release) G22 gondola > for container > service. It looks like to make it a G22B I have to > change the trucks and > brake gear. I assume I can get the brake gear from > Cal-scale (AB brakes?) > Some one told me I don't need to install the retainer > valve with the newer > brakes. Is this correct? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:31:42 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster & Derry area & industrial archeology Hi Derrick, Jerry & list members, Several topics to this email... W/ respect to USGS topos, Derrick wrote: >Sometimes however you'll find errors where something marked "old railroad >grade" wasn't, so it's not foolproof. Then there's the surviving right of >way for the uncompleted Derry to Donohoe mainline relocation, which also >is marked "old railroad grade" when in fact Harumph I got it right: new >railroad grade. Derrick: this explains things. A few years back, I did a little research and exploration on the PRR "Bradenville Branch" which departed from the main line near Derry, PA. I was equipped with a paper USGS topo map, and I climbed the hill to the area marked "old railroad grade". The prepared RoW was quite plain to see, and still in good shape. I didn't really know what I was looking at tho, and Derrick has cleared this up for me. Jerry: I saw your email on the Clearfield Cluster a few days back, but was unable to reply at the time. While exploring the remains of the Bradenville Branch, I found significant remains of three of the five coal facilities on the branch. Coke ovens, stone embankments, bone piles, buried ties, remains of a steel coal loading chute. Mostly I wacked thru the bushes, and used the map, but I also asked around with the locals - they seem to know if something is still there or not, and well they should, since, after all, they LIVE there. So what I'm saying is, sometimes traces survive, sometimes not, but ya gotta look real hard sometimes. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:31:42 -0800 Subject: [PRR] PRR/CNJ movie of 1897 Hi all, Burkhard wrote: >while browsing the Library of Congress >for some other matter, I checked for old >PRR stuff and came across the following >movie clip by TA Edison, available as >online-resource under: >http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.mbrsmi/edmp.0881 The movie clip is very cool - you can even see the Belpaire firebox on the PRR loco! Also of note to those interested in the Penn Station construction project, check the following which features a overall view of the Penn Station excavation site and the narrow gauge construction railroad. This film is not quite as old as the one Burkhard uncovered - it is "only" 98 years old! (note: the url has to all be on one line in your browser, even if it's more than one line here): http://memory.loc.gov/cgi- bin/query/D?papr:38:./temp/~ammem_UJ6H::@@@mdb=cola,coolbib,papr,pin,ncr,varstg - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:07:23 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster & Derry area & industrial archeology On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Claus Schlund wrote: > >Sometimes however you'll find errors where something marked "old railroad > >grade" wasn't, so it's not foolproof. Then there's the surviving right of > >way for the uncompleted Derry to Donohoe mainline relocation, which also > >is marked "old railroad grade" when in fact Harumph I got it right: new > >railroad grade. > > Derrick: this explains things. A few years back, I did a little research > and exploration on the PRR "Bradenville Branch" which departed > from the main line near Derry, PA. > > I was equipped with a paper USGS topo map, and I climbed the hill to > the area marked "old railroad grade". The prepared RoW was > quite plain to see, and still in good shape. I didn't really know > what I was looking at tho, and Derrick has cleared this up for me. It has power lines running over it now. I didn't climb up to take a look, though I should have. > Jerry: I saw your email on the Clearfield Cluster a few days back, > but was unable to reply at the time. While exploring the remains > of the Bradenville Branch, I found significant remains > of three of the five coal facilities on the branch. Coke ovens, > stone embankments, bone piles, buried ties, remains of a steel > coal loading chute. Mostly I wacked thru the bushes, and used the > map, but I also asked around with the locals - they seem to know if > something is still there or not, and well they should, since, after > all, they LIVE there. So what I'm saying is, sometimes > traces survive, sometimes not, but ya gotta look real hard > sometimes. I should go out there and wander around. I already need to make a trip to the Latrobe Historical Society for something else (and haven't figured out when they're open yet. sigh.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] EP20's Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:25:42 -0600 Walt has decided-- > > Still in the planning stages of my system which I will set in the summer of > 1952. > Feb 1953 is only a little after your time, but check Pennsy Diesel Years Vol. 1, p. 135. EP20 5873 in DGLE leading another EP20 in Tuscan. Both with small number boards. 5873 has nose lift rings, modified vents, and stripes painted across the windows. There is a prototype for everything. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 10:25:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Look Whats new!! List, Look whats' new at Strasburg. Heard it was finished yesterday.... http://photos.msn.com/imageserver/image.aspx?Image=HcZNnT9kkUh6!cx8ceVWZlWGneEMGtGc7j*SK1Dsprz7CUBVeuIvE2auYsz7GfHmzOgYryqC5wV0*9Rxna2qqmYUVmCaSZ*jHsy!hQAOJdDz90aumgHUQByiN56Gb9XFNC5nuuVG3gKZ53MLwflmYw$$ .........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 10:25:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Look Whats new!! List, Look whats' new at Strasburg. Heard it was finished yesterday.... http://photos.msn.com/imageserver/image.aspx?Image=HcZNnT9kkUh6!cx8ceVWZlWGneEMGtGc7j*SK1Dsprz7CUBVeuIvE2auYsz7GfHmzOgYryqC5wV0*9Rxna2qqmYUVmCaSZ*jHsy!hQAOJdDz90aumgHUQByiN56Gb9XFNC5nuuVG3gKZ53MLwflmYw$$ .........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Freight Car Diagrams for auction Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 11:25:06 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2EA1C.5DCC01F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Listers and Listees: I have available for sale a large book (about 2 inches thick) containing about 500 or so Pennsy freight car diagrams. I see some as old as the XL,XK etc. wooden box cars and as new as the G39 ore jennies. I won't guarantee that every last PRR freight car is in there but as we used to say on the railroad "It's close enough for government work!" I will entertain offers, off list, until one week from today. Have at it. Bill Volkmer ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2EA1C.5DCC01F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Listers and=20 Listees:
 
I have = available for=20 sale a large book (about 2 inches thick) containing about 500 or so = Pennsy=20 freight car diagrams. I see some as old as the XL,XK etc. wooden box = cars and as=20 new as the G39 ore jennies. I won't guarantee that every last PRR = freight car is=20 in there but as we used to say on the railroad "It's close enough for = government=20 work!"
 
I will = entertain=20 offers, off list, until one week from today.
 
 
Have = at=20 it.
 
Bill=20 Volkmer
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2EA1C.5DCC01F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Freight Car Diagrams for auction Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 12:49:36 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C2EA28.2B2176C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageBill: Why don't you put this on e-bay. Then you don't have to mail us back = each day so we know who is high bidder and what the current bid price = is.=20 Lew=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Volkmer=20 To: talk prr=20 Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 11:25 AM Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Freight Car Diagrams for auction Listers and Listees: I have available for sale a large book (about 2 inches thick) = containing about 500 or so Pennsy freight car diagrams. I see some as = old as the XL,XK etc. wooden box cars and as new as the G39 ore jennies. = I won't guarantee that every last PRR freight car is in there but as we = used to say on the railroad "It's close enough for government work!" I will entertain offers, off list, until one week from today. Have at it. Bill Volkmer ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C2EA28.2B2176C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Bill:
 
Why don't you put this on=20 e-bay.   Then you don't have to mail us back each = day so we=20 know who is high bidder and what the current bid price = is. 
 
Lew 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill Volkmer
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 = 11:25=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Freight = Car=20 Diagrams for auction

Listers and=20 Listees:
 
I = have available=20 for sale a large book (about 2 inches thick) containing about 500 or = so Pennsy=20 freight car diagrams. I see some as old as the XL,XK etc. wooden box = cars and=20 as new as the G39 ore jennies. I won't guarantee that every last PRR = freight=20 car is in there but as we used to say on the railroad "It's close = enough for=20 government work!"
 
I = will entertain=20 offers, off list, until one week from today.
 
 
Have = at=20 it.
 
Bill = Volkmer
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C2EA28.2B2176C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI update from the Trains.om page Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:24:23 +0000 Oriental Limited has been authorized by Broadway Limited Imports to market an analog version of the Broadway Limited New York Central J1e 4-6-4. The model will be identical to the Broadway Limited Imports version except that it is equipped for use on DC only and doesn’t include sound features. The locomotive, offered in three road numbers, features constant-intensity directional lighting and a minimum starting voltage of less than 1 volt. Oriental Limited, P. O. Box 4171, Evansville, IN 47724; www.orientallimited.com. My conspiracy laden mind say's they are doing this to generate funds and we can expect delays in the PRR stuff. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:59:47 EST Subject: [PRR] P70 Roof Vents --part1_181.183e6f1a.2ba3aad3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And yet another question on roof vents. On the cars that received mechanical air-cond., there was a large diameter, low profile vent at each end of the car. Q: Were these mounted along the center-line of the roof or were some offset to the side od the center-line? Q: Some appear to be mounted to the coach side of the bulkhead while others were mounted on the vestibule side of the bulkhead. Was there a practice as to where, with respect to the bulkheads, these were mounted? Many thanks, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 --part1_181.183e6f1a.2ba3aad3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   And yet another question on roof vents.  O= n the cars that received mechanical air-cond.,  there was a large diame= ter, low profile vent at each end of the car.

Q:  Were these mounted along the center-line of the roof or were some=20= offset to the
       side od the center-line?

Q:  Some appear to be mounted to the coach side of the bulkhead while=20= others were
      mounted on the vestibule side of the bulkhead= .  Was there a practice as to
      where, with respect to the bulkheads, these w= ere mounted?

Many thanks,

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  346 --part1_181.183e6f1a.2ba3aad3_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 17:16:21 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: MoPac baggage on #13 In a message dated 3/13/03 12:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, kwmcelre@rockwellcollins.com writes: > Rick, > > The primary mail, newspaper/catalog and express connecting trains on the > Missouri Pacific were trains 3 and 4 between St. Louis and Fort Worth. > They were primarily head-end trains, sometimes exceeding 20 cars. They > also connected with the GM&O's "Fast Mail" serving Chicago. > > PRR train 13 westbound arrived at St. Louis about midnight and connected > with MP train 3, leaving early in the morning. MP train 4 arrived at St. > Louis late in the afternoon and connected with PRR train 32, the "St. > Louisan," which left for New York just before midnight. > > I also think that the PRR and PC sometimes leased head-end cars from the MP > if they ran short, since the MP had a sizeable and modern fleet of them. I > often saw MP baggage/express cars sitting in Dayton Union Station in the > late 1960's. > > For some reason, all of the MP/T&P express boxcars were stenciled, "For > service on MP and T&P lines only." This would explain why they weren't > seen elsewhere. It may be that the MP didn't want them being used by the > Post Office when the MP had just invested in 200 new baggage/storage mail > cars for that purpose in the early 1960's. Being taller, one could store > more mail per linear foot (the normal billing measure.) That's just my > wild guess, though. > > Ken > Thanks, Ken That would explain why MoP headend equipment was concentrated on #13 westbound, as we've seen in a number of photographs. And going the other way, it explains why we had a #32, but not a #33, going through Dayton. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 17:16:21 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: MoPac baggage on #13 --part1_1e9.435295e.2ba3aeb5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/13/03 12:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, kwmcelre@rockwellcollins.com writes: > Rick, > > The primary mail, newspaper/catalog and express connecting trains on the > Missouri Pacific were trains 3 and 4 between St. Louis and Fort Worth. > They were primarily head-end trains, sometimes exceeding 20 cars. They > also connected with the GM&O's "Fast Mail" serving Chicago. > > PRR train 13 westbound arrived at St. Louis about midnight and connected > with MP train 3, leaving early in the morning. MP train 4 arrived at St. > Louis late in the afternoon and connected with PRR train 32, the "St. > Louisan," which left for New York just before midnight. > > I also think that the PRR and PC sometimes leased head-end cars from the MP > if they ran short, since the MP had a sizeable and modern fleet of them. I > often saw MP baggage/express cars sitting in Dayton Union Station in the > late 1960's. > > For some reason, all of the MP/T&P express boxcars were stenciled, "For > service on MP and T&P lines only." This would explain why they weren't > seen elsewhere. It may be that the MP didn't want them being used by the > Post Office when the MP had just invested in 200 new baggage/storage mail > cars for that purpose in the early 1960's. Being taller, one could store > more mail per linear foot (the normal billing measure.) That's just my > wild guess, though. > > Ken > Thanks, Ken That would explain why MoP headend equipment was concentrated on #13 westbound, as we've seen in a number of photographs. And going the other way, it explains why we had a #32, but not a #33, going through Dayton. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1e9.435295e.2ba3aeb5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/13/03 12:46:07 PM Eastern Standar= d Time, kwmcelre@rockwellcollins.com writes:


Rick,

The primary mail, newspaper/catalog and express connecting trains on the
Missouri Pacific were trains 3 and 4 between St. Louis and Fort Worth.
They were primarily head-end trains, sometimes exceeding 20 cars.  They=
also connected with the GM&O's "Fast Mail" serving Chicago.

PRR train 13 westbound arrived at St. Louis about midnight and connected
with MP train 3, leaving early in the morning.  MP train 4 arrived at S= t.
Louis late in the afternoon  and connected with PRR train 32, the "St.<= BR> Louisan," which left for New York just before midnight.

I also think that the PRR and PC sometimes leased head-end cars from the MP<= BR> if they ran short, since the MP had a sizeable and modern fleet of them.&nbs= p; I
often saw MP baggage/express cars sitting in Dayton Union Station in the
late 1960's.

For some reason, all of the MP/T&P express boxcars were stenciled, "For<= BR> service on MP and T&P lines only."  This would explain why they wer= en't
seen elsewhere.  It may be that the MP didn't want them being used by t= he
Post Office when the MP had just invested in 200 new baggage/storage mail cars for that purpose in the early 1960's.  Being taller, one could sto= re
more mail per linear foot (the normal billing measure.)  That's just my=
wild guess, though.

Ken


Thanks, Ken

That would explain why MoP headend equipment was concentrated on #13 westbou= nd, as we've seen in a number of photographs.  And going the other way,= it explains why we had a #32, but not a #33, going through Dayton.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_1e9.435295e.2ba3aeb5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:25:33 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI update from the Trains.com page ndbprr@att.net said: >Oriental Limited has been authorized by Broadway Limited Imports to market an >analog version of the Broadway Limited New York Centralndbprr@att.net J1e >4-6-4. The model >will be identical to the Broadway Limited Imports version except that it is >equipped for use on DC only and doesnít include sound features. The >locomotive, >offered in three road numbers, features constant-intensity directional >lighting >and a minimum starting voltage of less than 1 volt. Oriental Limited, P. >O. Box >4171, Evansville, IN 47724; www.orientallimited.com. > >My conspiracy laden mind say's they are doing this to generate funds and >we can >expect delays in the PRR stuff. Hehehe...a conspiracy round every corner? A reasonable alternative is that this is a response to the WAIL of lament that arose from the stock DC crowd and folks who wanted to put their own decoders in (like RailCommand). If that is the case, its a winner for BLI since they open a new market with almost no new investment...this may actually drive the other products faster...so think positive! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:09:56 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI update from the Trains.om page Oriental and Broadway Limited are both owned by the same individual. This seems like smart marketing to me . Those that don't want sound and are screaming that DCC is being shoved down their throats will now have a choice. Hopefully all units in the future will be offered in both versions. ----------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline Blueprint and Yardmaster Models Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:35:41 -0600 Hi Mark--You asked: > > Anyway the question I have concerns the painting on the last > Blueprint cars I bought. Set #16084, 40' 7" door PRR Circle Keystone > boxcars , the roofs and roof walk are black with a light misting of freight > car red misted around the edges. Set # 10114, 50' PRR single door Circle > Keystone boxcars, the roof is painted freight car red and the roof walk is > black. Is the painting of these cars prototypical or did Branchline goof. I > E-mailed Branchline with this same question and have never received a > response. If I do need to paint these pieces is there a paint available that > is a close match. Any response would be greatly appreciated. Mark Taylor > On the Steam Freight Cars list--check out http://www.steamfreightcars.com/ -- there was some discussion about the 40' car. I think what Branchline was trying to do was represent a new car which had "roof cement" applied to the roof, then the car was painted Freight Car Color. The red you see on the roof is supposed to be overspray from the sides and ends. I don't really like the way it came out so I just applied a light Grimy Black weathering to the roof and weathered the sides to wipe out the shine. I am not sure about the 50' car; I would guess that the roofwalk is intended to be bare metal for better nonskid. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 02:05:53 EST Subject: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! --part1_163.1d5ed838.2ba42ad1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt writes... >Greg and all, Still in the planning stages of my system which I will set in the summer of=20 1952. Should be able to get a good mix of motive power and rolling stock. Th= e=20 only problem I am encountering is that I want to incorporate so much into my= =20 available space. Such is life. Walt Prusick< Click here: Search Results=20 (http://gowest.coalliance.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?resultsScreen+14863+1+10+3= )=20 Okay all you listers... This link is mandatory browsing! AND there WILL BE A TEST that will account= =20 for 50% of your grade! Freight car and passenger car fans will have to do a= =20 special 10 page report (1=BD spaced) of the single cars found here. Steam a= nd=20 Diesel fans will have to give a 15 minute oral report before the class and=20 spoken in Pennsylvanian Dutch! Your absence from class with meet with=20 immediate failure of this class. This tour will rival most books in print=20 (as there are very good captions with locations and dates) and the collectio= n=20 has been mostly ignored by ALL EDITORS AND AUTHORS, for shame! I have=20 advocated the use of this collection to several publishers and editors as=20 well as authors and guess what I bet a handful of photos have been published= .=20 I only wished I would have found it prior to the publication of my FS-10=20 article. The site covers from the early 1920s until the early 1960s. AGAIN= =20 THERE WILL BE A TEST... "CLASS! CLASS! SHUT UP!"=20 Unfortunately Mr. Perry's work has been largely ignored as has R. D. Acton,=20 J. J. Young, Jr., the later of the two is seeing more exposure.=20 The site contains about 230+ PRR photos from the Otto Perry collection held=20 in the Denver Public Library. On page 2 of your trip down memory lane you=20 will find one of the fine examples of Mr. Perry's work covering a set of=20 EP20's on June 29, 1951, in (Lines West/Rick Tipton's territory) Effingham,=20 IL. Mr. Rick Tipton you will be expected to do a special report on the=20 findings of all Line West Photos... 3^) It is a good example of a DGLP=20 5-striper with air induction system changes, which includes a switch to what= =20 is in effect a "chicken wired" opening on the roof replacing the (always=20 modeled) louver system. Also the nose lift rings are in place but things tha= t=20 are noticeably missing are the "eye brow" grabs and the ladder grabs. You=20 will find several other photos of EP20's on the site of various dates. Walt=20 and Rich check out the way the PRR made changes to the details on the trucks= =20 like the journals and other details. One conclusion I have come to Walt and= =20 Rich is that the PRR began the initial upgrades to the EP20's on or about=20 April of 1951 as I can find no photo evidence of the nose lift rings and air= =20 induction system upgrades prior to that date, which BTW has never been=20 mentioned in print to my knowledge.=20 Perhaps Jerry would place a link to his webpage for this site. It is a busy=20 one so be patient and as many students as possible please team up at your=20 desk and share a computer... 3^) Just kidding. But please do bookmark thi= s=20 site.=20 Greg Martin=20 --part1_163.1d5ed838.2ba42ad1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt writes...

>Greg and all,
Still in the planning stages of my system which I will set in the summer of=20= 1952. Should be able to get a good mix of motive power and rolling stock. Th= e only problem I am encountering is that I want to incorporate so much into=20= my available space. Such is life.
Walt Prusick<

Click here: Search Results (http://gowest.coalliance.org:808= 0/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?resultsScreen+14863+1+10+3)

Okay all you listers...

This link is mandatory browsing!  AND there WILL BE A TEST that will ac= count for 50% of your grade!  Freight car and passenger car fans will h= ave to do a special 10 page report (1=BD spaced) of the single cars found he= re.  Steam and Diesel fans will have to give a 15 minute oral report be= fore the class and spoken in Pennsylvanian Dutch!  Your absence from cl= ass with meet with immediate failure of this class.  This tour will riv= al most books in print (as there are very good captions with locations and d= ates) and the collection has been mostly ignored by ALL EDITORS AND AUTHORS,= for shame! I have advocated the use of this collection to several publisher= s and editors as well as authors and guess what I bet a handful of photos ha= ve been published. I only wished I would have found it prior to the publicat= ion of my FS-10 article.  The site covers from the early 1920s until th= e early 1960s.  AGAIN THERE WILL BE A TEST... "CLASS! CLASS! SHUT UP!"=20=

Unfortunately Mr. Perry's work has been largely ignored as has R. D. Acton,=20= J. J. Young, Jr., the later of the two is seeing more exposure.

The site contains about 230+ PRR photos from the Otto Perry collection held=20= in the Denver Public Library. On page 2 of your trip down memory lane you wi= ll find one of the fine examples of Mr. Perry's work covering a set of EP20'= s on June 29, 1951, in (Lines West/Rick Tipton's territory) Effingham, IL. M= r. Rick Tipton you will be expected to do a special report on the findings o= f all Line West Photos... 3^) It is a good example of a DGLP 5-striper with=20= air induction system changes, which includes a switch to what is in effect a= "chicken wired" opening on the roof replacing the (always modeled) louver s= ystem. Also the nose lift rings are in place but things that are noticeably=20= missing are the "eye brow" grabs and the ladder grabs.  You will find s= everal other photos of EP20's on the site of various dates. Walt and Rich ch= eck out the way the PRR made changes to the details on the trucks like the j= ournals and other details.  One conclusion I have come to Walt and Rich= is that the PRR began the initial upgrades to the EP20's on or about April=20= of 1951 as I can find no photo evidence of the nose lift rings and air induc= tion system upgrades prior to that date, which BTW has never been mentioned=20= in print to my knowledge.

Perhaps Jerry would place a link to his webpage for this site. It is a busy=20= one so be patient and as many students as possible please team up at your de= sk and share a computer...  3^)  Just kidding.  But please do= bookmark this site.

Greg Martin

--part1_163.1d5ed838.2ba42ad1_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 06:20:48 -0500 Subject: [PRR] FOR SALE: Keystone Crossings CD's 20% Off Today Only From: Jerry Britton It's the 15th day of the month... In conjunction with the Harrisburg Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society's "Seventeenth Annual Harrisburg RAILROAD SHOW & COLLECTORS MARKET" Merchandise Service is offering the following special through 9 a.m. Sunday, March 15th, 2003: All of our "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings" CD-ROM's are on sale at 20% off normal price. This includes: "The Pennsylvania Railroad in 1954" from Desktop Solutions. A cd-rom collection of sixty vintage PRR documents from the transition era year in Adobe Acrobat PDF format. Included are the Book of Rules, Arranged Freight Schedule, Official Railway Equipment Register, Makeup of Trains, Passenger Equipment Roster, Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment, Official Guide to the Railways, all 19 divisional Employee Timetables, dozens of Public Timetables, and still more! The disc is in ISO-9660 format, which is usable by Windows, Macintosh, UNIX, and many other platforms. Requires Adobe Acrobat Reader, which is a free download. A "must have" for every modeler/historian of the 1950's! See our "Current Specials" page at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_sale.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch Book For Sale Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 08:17:08 -0500 I have obtained a like-new copy of Bill Caloroso's excellent book entitled "Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch" which is for sale for $24.00 including shipping to continental U.S. Contact me directly if interested. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: [PRR] P2K HO Pennsy GP-7's For Sale Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 08:21:13 -0500 I have three new in the box Proto 2000 HO Pennsy GP-7's without dynamic brakes for sale at $47.00 each including shipping in the continental U.S. Engine numbers available are 8546, 8799 and 8804. Please contact me directly if interested. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:45:51 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > Click here: Search Results > (http://gowest.coalliance.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?resultsScreen+14863+1+10+3) [] > Perhaps Jerry would place a link to his webpage for this site. It is a busy > one so be patient and as many students as possible please team up at your > desk and share a computer... 3^) Just kidding. But please do bookmark this > site. Bookmark the site, but not this particular URL. The URL itself is useless, because it's the result of a search that no one but Greg (at least, I assume the URL was from Greg and not one he was quoting) has the state for. Everyone else should get a page reading something like: Sorry, an error prevented the CARLweb client from connecting to the state server. The "right" answer is to go to "http://gowest.coalliance.org/presearch.html", follow the link, and have Greg tell us what he searched for. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:57:28 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! On Sat, 15 Mar 2003, Derrick J Brashear wrote: > The "right" answer is to go to > "http://gowest.coalliance.org/presearch.html", > follow the link, and have Greg tell us what he searched for. "prr" looks like a fine search: 238 matches, the first few pages (at least) of which are Otto Perry shots. The image pages themselves, e.g. http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00014481+OP-14481 do appear to be directly linkable and not dynamic state. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:59:02 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! In a message dated 3/15/03 1:20:28 AM Central Standard Time, TGREGMRTN@aol.com writes: << Perhaps Jerry would place a link to his webpage for this site. It is a busy one so be patient and as many students as possible please team up at your desk and share a computer... 3^) Just kidding. But please do bookmark this site. >> I thought everyone knew about it. Now you've gone and done it :-). It was busy before, but now I'll grow a beard waiting to get on. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] New? Pictures Site Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:56:34 -0600 Hi All. Bob wrote: "> I thought everyone knew about it. Now you've gone and done it :-). It was busy before, but now I'll grow a beard waiting to get on.> Bob Zoeller" As a matter of fact, I've used that site for a couple years, and like most of youz, thought everyone knew about it. LOL What I did was enter on that search page: OP-14252 (which is Otto Perry, picture No. 14252) [which I believe is the first PRR picture], and changed the next window to "call number browse". That brings up the B6 #3, and you simply go "next" for whatever you wish to see. What I actually did was go through the entire 238 pictures on the PRR, and did a simple listing of what each picture was. But what's really neat about that site is that you can obtain the picture information, like the year, author, etc.; assuming the info was available to the librarian. You will note they don't have specific engine classes, etc. But we can get that info elsewhere; i.e. gather info from several sources for your specific model. As for being slow, I use a regular 56 K dial-up modem, and it took a little over 4 hours actual computer time to simply go through and log those 238 pictures. I did not obtain any additional data, just log in pencil on paper what the picture was of. When necessary, I can go directly to that picture with the correct URL, and get whatever extra data is available, and even download the picture to my HD. All for personal use only. It takes a little extra effort, but well worth it! Have fun! Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist PRRTHS #1204 and SPF ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:49:09 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011A_01C2EB23.9016C7F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, our learned professor, opines: <
Greg, = our learned=20 professor, opines:
<
<One conclusion I=20 have come to Walt and Rich is that the PRR began the initial upgrades to = the=20 <EP20's on or about April of 1951 as I can find no photo evidence of = the nose=20 lift rings and air <induction system upgrades prior to that date, = which BTW=20 has never been mentioned in print to <my knowledge.
<
No=20 doubt true as far as "initial upgrades" are concerned.  However, = according=20 to Withers Volume Seven, with photo evidence, the fourth and last order = came=20 from EMD with nose lift rings installed.
That=20 would be 5866 - 5883 built 4/49.
 
Steve=20 Hoxie
Pensacola FL


 ------=_NextPart_000_011A_01C2EB23.9016C7F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:07:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] EP20/EP22 Fuel Mileage Hello List, Does anyone know the fuel range of a A-B-A lash up of E units eastbound from Harrisburg? I'm trying to figure out the fuel stops for the Blue Ribbon Fleet enroute to Chicago. Thanks in advance. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:07:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] EP20/EP22 Fuel Mileage Hello List, Does anyone know the fuel range of a A-B-A lash up of E units eastbound from Harrisburg? I'm trying to figure out the fuel stops for the Blue Ribbon Fleet enroute to Chicago. Thanks in advance. Dave Hopson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:54:51 -0500 From: John W Rosenbauer Subject: [PRR] For sale: Lima Hamilton Maintenance manual I have a maintenance manual for what I believe were LS-25 locomotives. The manual is dated 4-Jun-51, issued to the PRR and covers locomotive road numbers 5682, 5683 and 8943 to 8951, Lima construction numbers 9528 to 9538 inclusive. This manual is about 9"x11" and 2" thick. There are 2 fold out cut-a-way side elevations giving general arraignment and 2 fold out piping diagrams for 26-RL brake equipment. I have no idea what it might be worth so if interested contact me at: jlrosen@wpa.net Thanks, John W Rosenbauer --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Citizens Internet Services with Declude Virus v 1.67i16] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 09:12:44 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk- PRR Gondola From: Beth Caples Yesterday at a swap meet. I picked up a Roller Bearing Models 65' PRR gondola. I for years thought that it had a prototype but now I'm not sure. I can't find the number series anywhere in the O.R.E.R. Is it a PRR prototype? What was the class/ number series? Where can I find a photo of one? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, John Caples ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 11:24:39 -0500 From: Dale Dembinski Subject: [PRR] WANTED - PRR Holiday Advertising Poster I am looking for PRR Christmas advertising posters. These usually were around 25 X 40 or so, and were used at depots. I am especially interested in a PRR Christmas poster that has a PRR passenger train and tuscan diesels visible through the center of a holly wreath on a window - as if you are looking out of a window in a house at the passing train. This poster appeared on the back cover of "The Keystone" (magazine of the PRRT&HS society) Winter 1986 issue. While I would be interested in any Christmas PRR poster, the one above is the one I am specifically looking for. Please contact me off list at ddembinski@centurytel.net Thanks! Dale Dembinski PRRT&HS # 3045 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 11:26:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] EP20/EP22 Fuel Mileage List, In my earlier question, I wrote "eastbound". I should have wrote westbound from Harrisburg. Sorry about that. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 12:22:07 -0500 From: Phil Tripician Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/16/03 PRR-Talk wrote: > PRR-Talk Digest - Sunday, March 16, 2003 > > More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! > by > FOR SALE: Keystone Crossings CD's 20% Off Today Only > by "Jerry Britton" > Elmira Branch Book For Sale > by "parkvarieties" > P2K HO Pennsy GP-7's For Sale > by "parkvarieties" > Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! > by "Derrick J Brashear" > Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! > by "Derrick J Brashear" > Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! > by > Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! > by "Steve Hoxie" > EP20/EP22 Fuel Mileage > by > For sale: Lima Hamilton Maintenance manual > by "John W Rosenbauer" > Re: [PRR] New? Pictures Site > by "PennsyNut" > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! > From: > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 02:05:53 EST > > --part1_163.1d5ed838.2ba42ad1_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Walt writes... > > >Greg and all, > Still in the planning stages of my system which I will set in the summer of=20 > 1952. Should be able to get a good mix of motive power and rolling stock. Th= > e=20 > only problem I am encountering is that I want to incorporate so much into my= > =20 > available space. Such is life. > Walt Prusick< > > 863+1+10+3">Click here: Search Results=20 > (http://gowest.coalliance.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?resultsScreen+14863+1+10+3= > )=20 > > Okay all you listers... > > This link is mandatory browsing! AND there WILL BE A TEST that will account= > =20 > for 50% of your grade! Freight car and passenger car fans will have to do a= > =20 > special 10 page report (1=BD spaced) of the single cars found here. Steam a= > nd=20 > Diesel fans will have to give a 15 minute oral report before the class and=20 > spoken in Pennsylvanian Dutch! Your absence from class with meet with=20 > immediate failure of this class. This tour will rival most books in print=20 > (as there are very good captions with locations and dates) and the collectio= > n=20 > has been mostly ignored by ALL EDITORS AND AUTHORS, for shame! I have=20 > advocated the use of this collection to several publishers and editors as=20 > well as authors and guess what I bet a handful of photos have been published= > .=20 > I only wished I would have found it prior to the publication of my FS-10=20 > article. The site covers from the early 1920s until the early 1960s. AGAIN= > =20 > THERE WILL BE A TEST... "CLASS! CLASS! SHUT UP!"=20 > > Unfortunately Mr. Perry's work has been largely ignored as has R. D. Acton,=20 > J. J. Young, Jr., the later of the two is seeing more exposure.=20 > > The site contains about 230+ PRR photos from the Otto Perry collection held=20 > in the Denver Public Library. On page 2 of your trip down memory lane you=20 > will find one of the fine examples of Mr. Perry's work covering a set of=20 > EP20's on June 29, 1951, in (Lines West/Rick Tipton's territory) Effingham,=20 > IL. Mr. Rick Tipton you will be expected to do a special report on the=20 > findings of all Line West Photos... 3^) It is a good example of a DGLP=20 > 5-striper with air induction system changes, which includes a switch to what= > =20 > is in effect a "chicken wired" opening on the roof replacing the (always=20 > modeled) louver system. Also the nose lift rings are in place but things tha= > t=20 > are noticeably missing are the "eye brow" grabs and the ladder grabs. You=20 > will find several other photos of EP20's on the site of various dates. Walt=20 > and Rich check out the way the PRR made changes to the details on the trucks= > =20 > like the journals and other details. One conclusion I have come to Walt and= > =20 > Rich is that the PRR began the initial upgrades to the EP20's on or about=20 > April of 1951 as I can find no photo evidence of the nose lift rings and air= > =20 > induction system upgrades prior to that date, which BTW has never been=20 > mentioned in print to my knowledge.=20 > > Perhaps Jerry would place a link to his webpage for this site. It is a busy=20 > one so be patient and as many students as possible please team up at your=20 > desk and share a computer... 3^) Just kidding. But please do bookmark thi= > s=20 > site.=20 > > Greg Martin=20 > > --part1_163.1d5ed838.2ba42ad1_boundary > Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Walt writes...
>
> >Greg and all,
> Still in the planning stages of my system which I will set in the summer of=20= > 1952. Should be able to get a good mix of motive power and rolling stock. Th= > e only problem I am encountering is that I want to incorporate so much into=20= > my available space. Such is life.
> Walt Prusick< ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D"0">
>
> 863+1+10+3">Click here: Search Results (http://gowest.coalliance.org:808= > 0/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?resultsScreen+14863+1+10+3)
>
> Okay all you listers...
>
> This link is mandatory browsing!  AND there WILL BE A TEST that will ac= > count for 50% of your grade!  Freight car and passenger car fans will h= > ave to do a special 10 page report (1=BD spaced) of the single cars found he= > re.  Steam and Diesel fans will have to give a 15 minute oral report be= > fore the class and spoken in Pennsylvanian Dutch!  Your absence from cl= > ass with meet with immediate failure of this class.  This tour will riv= > al most books in print (as there are very good captions with locations and d= > ates) and the collection has been mostly ignored by ALL EDITORS AND AUTHORS,= > for shame! I have advocated the use of this collection to several publisher= > s and editors as well as authors and guess what I bet a handful of photos ha= > ve been published. I only wished I would have found it prior to the publicat= > ion of my FS-10 article.  The site covers from the early 1920s until th= > e early 1960s.  AGAIN THERE WILL BE A TEST... "CLASS! CLASS! SHUT UP!"=20= >
>
> Unfortunately Mr. Perry's work has been largely ignored as has R. D. Acton,=20= > J. J. Young, Jr., the later of the two is seeing more exposure.
>
> The site contains about 230+ PRR photos from the Otto Perry collection held=20= > in the Denver Public Library. On page 2 of your trip down memory lane you wi= > ll find one of the fine examples of Mr. Perry's work covering a set of EP20'= > s on June 29, 1951, in (Lines West/Rick Tipton's territory) Effingham, IL. M= > r. Rick Tipton you will be expected to do a special report on the findings o= > f all Line West Photos... 3^) It is a good example of a DGLP 5-striper with=20= > air induction system changes, which includes a switch to what is in effect a= > "chicken wired" opening on the roof replacing the (always modeled) louver s= > ystem. Also the nose lift rings are in place but things that are noticeably=20= > missing are the "eye brow" grabs and the ladder grabs.  You will find s= > everal other photos of EP20's on the site of various dates. Walt and Rich ch= > eck out the way the PRR made changes to the details on the trucks like the j= > ournals and other details.  One conclusion I have come to Walt and Rich= > is that the PRR began the initial upgrades to the EP20's on or about April=20= > of 1951 as I can find no photo evidence of the nose lift rings and air induc= > tion system upgrades prior to that date, which BTW has never been mentioned=20= > in print to my knowledge.
>
> Perhaps Jerry would place a link to his webpage for this site. It is a busy=20= > one so be patient and as many students as possible please team up at your de= > sk and share a computer...  3^)  Just kidding.  But please do= > bookmark this site.
>
> Greg Martin
>
> > --part1_163.1d5ed838.2ba42ad1_boundary-- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: FOR SALE: Keystone Crossings CD's 20% Off Today Only > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 06:20:48 -0500 > > It's the 15th day of the month... > > In conjunction with the Harrisburg Chapter of the National Railway > Historical Society's "Seventeenth Annual Harrisburg RAILROAD SHOW & > COLLECTORS MARKET" Merchandise Service is offering the following special > through 9 a.m. Sunday, March 15th, 2003: All of our "Excerpts from Keystone > Crossings" CD-ROM's are on sale at 20% off normal price. > > This includes: "The Pennsylvania Railroad in 1954" from Desktop Solutions. A > cd-rom collection of sixty vintage PRR documents from the transition era > year in Adobe Acrobat PDF format. Included are the Book of Rules, Arranged > Freight Schedule, Official Railway Equipment Register, Makeup of Trains, > Passenger Equipment Roster, Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment, > Official Guide to the Railways, all 19 divisional Employee Timetables, > dozens of Public Timetables, and still more! The disc is in ISO-9660 format, > which is usable by Windows, Macintosh, UNIX, and many other platforms. > Requires Adobe Acrobat Reader, which is a free download. A "must have" for > every modeler/historian of the 1950's! > > See our "Current Specials" page at > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_sale.html > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Elmira Branch Book For Sale > From: "parkvarieties" > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 08:17:08 -0500 > > I have obtained a like-new copy of Bill Caloroso's excellent book > entitled "Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch" which is for sale > for $24.00 including shipping to continental U.S. > > Contact me directly if interested. > Frank Brua > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: P2K HO Pennsy GP-7's For Sale > From: "parkvarieties" > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 08:21:13 -0500 > > I have three new in the box Proto 2000 HO Pennsy GP-7's without > dynamic brakes for sale at $47.00 each including shipping in the > continental U.S. Engine numbers available are 8546, 8799 and 8804. > > Please contact me directly if interested. > Frank Brua > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! > From: "Derrick J Brashear" > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:45:51 -0500 (EST) > > On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > > > Click here: Search Results > > (http://gowest.coalliance.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?resultsScreen+14863+1+10+3) > > [] > > > Perhaps Jerry would place a link to his webpage for this site. It is a busy > > one so be patient and as many students as possible please team up at your > > desk and share a computer... 3^) Just kidding. But please do bookmark this > > site. > > Bookmark the site, but not this particular URL. The URL itself is useless, > because it's the result of a search that no one but Greg (at least, I > assume the URL was from Greg and not one he was quoting) has the state > for. Everyone else should get a page reading something like: > > Sorry, an error prevented the CARLweb client from connecting to the state > server. > > The "right" answer is to go to > "http://gowest.coalliance.org/presearch.html", > follow the link, and have Greg tell us what he searched for. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! > From: "Derrick J Brashear" > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:57:28 -0500 (EST) > > On Sat, 15 Mar 2003, Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > > The "right" answer is to go to > > "http://gowest.coalliance.org/presearch.html", > > follow the link, and have Greg tell us what he searched for. > > "prr" looks like a fine search: 238 matches, the first few pages (at > least) of which are Otto Perry shots. > > The image pages themselves, e.g. > http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00014481+OP-14481 > do appear to be directly linkable and not dynamic state. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! > From: > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:59:02 EST > > In a message dated 3/15/03 1:20:28 AM Central Standard Time, > TGREGMRTN@aol.com writes: > > << Perhaps Jerry would place a link to his webpage for this site. It is a > busy > one so be patient and as many students as possible please team up at your > desk and share a computer... 3^) Just kidding. But please do bookmark > this > site. >> > > I thought everyone knew about it. Now you've gone and done it :-). It was > busy before, but now I'll grow a beard waiting to get on. > > Bob Zoeller > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] More info on EP20's.. there will be a test! > From: "Steve Hoxie" > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:49:09 -0600 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_011A_01C2EB23.9016C7F0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Greg, our learned professor, opines: > < > initial upgrades to the no photo evidence of the nose lift rings and air upgrades prior to that date, which BTW has never been mentioned in print = > to < > No doubt true as far as "initial upgrades" are concerned. However, = > according to Withers Volume Seven, with photo evidence, the fourth and = > last order came from EMD with nose lift rings installed. > That would be 5866 - 5883 built 4/49. > > Steve Hoxie > Pensacola FL > > ------=_NextPart_000_011A_01C2EB23.9016C7F0 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > > > >
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 > face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">Greg, = > our learned=20 > professor, opines:
>
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 > face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 > FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><
>
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 > face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = > FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><One conclusion I=20 > have come to Walt and Rich is that the PRR began the initial upgrades to = > the=20 > <EP20's on or about April of 1951 as I can find no photo evidence of = > the nose=20 > lift rings and air <induction system upgrades prior to that date, = > which BTW=20 > has never been mentioned in print to <my knowledge.
face=3DArial><
>
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 > face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"> face=3DArial>No=20 > doubt true as far as "initial upgrades" are concerned.  However, = > according=20 > to Withers Volume Seven, with photo evidence, the fourth and last order = > came=20 > from EMD with nose lift rings installed.
>
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 > face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"> face=3DArial>That=20 > would be 5866 - 5883 built 4/49.
>
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 > face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"> face=3DArial> 
>
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 > face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"> face=3DArial>Steve=20 > Hoxie
>
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 > face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"> face=3DArial>Pensacola FL
>


> > ------=_NextPart_000_011A_01C2EB23.9016C7F0-- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: EP20/EP22 Fuel Mileage > From: > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:07:42 -0500 (EST) > > Hello List, > > Does anyone know the fuel range of a A-B-A lash up of E units > eastbound from Harrisburg? I'm trying to figure out the fuel stops for > the Blue Ribbon Fleet enroute to Chicago. Thanks in advance. > > Dave Hopson > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: For sale: Lima Hamilton Maintenance manual > From: "John W Rosenbauer" > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:54:51 -0500 > > I have a maintenance manual for what I believe were LS-25 locomotives. > The manual is dated 4-Jun-51, issued to the PRR and covers locomotive > road numbers 5682, 5683 and 8943 to 8951, Lima construction numbers 9528 > to 9538 inclusive. > > This manual is about 9"x11" and 2" thick. > > There are 2 fold out cut-a-way side elevations giving general > arraignment and 2 fold out piping diagrams for 26-RL brake equipment. > > I have no idea what it might be worth so if interested contact me at: > jlrosen@wpa.net > > Thanks, > > John W Rosenbauer > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Citizens Internet Services with Declude Virus v 1.67i16] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] New? Pictures Site > From: "PennsyNut" > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:56:34 -0600 > > Hi All. > > Bob wrote: "> I thought everyone knew about it. Now you've gone and done > it :-). It was busy before, but now I'll grow a beard waiting to get on.> > Bob Zoeller" > > As a matter of fact, I've used that site for a couple years, and like most > of youz, thought everyone knew about it. LOL > > What I did was enter on that search page: OP-14252 (which is Otto Perry, > picture No. 14252) [which I believe is the first PRR picture], and changed > the next window to "call number browse". That brings up the B6 #3, and you > simply go "next" for whatever you wish to see. > > What I actually did was go through the entire 238 pictures on the PRR, and > did a simple listing of what each picture was. But what's really neat about > that site is that you can obtain the picture information, like the year, > author, etc.; assuming the info was available to the librarian. You will > note they don't have specific engine classes, etc. But we can get that info > elsewhere; i.e. gather info from several sources for your specific model. > > As for being slow, I use a regular 56 K dial-up modem, and it took a little > over 4 hours actual computer time to simply go through and log those 238 > pictures. I did not obtain any additional data, just log in pencil on paper > what the picture > was of. When necessary, I can go directly to that picture with the correct > URL, and get whatever extra data is available, and even download the picture > to my HD. All for personal use only. It takes a little extra effort, but > well worth it! > > Have fun! > > Morgan Bilbo > Ferroequinologist > PRRTHS #1204 and SPF > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > End of PRR-Talk Digest > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 12:22:20 -0500 From: Phil Tripician Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/15/03 PRR-Talk wrote: > PRR-Talk Digest - Saturday, March 15, 2003 > > Look Whats new!! > by "Gary Mittner" > Pennsy Freight Car Diagrams for auction > by "Bill Volkmer" > Re: [PRR] Pennsy Freight Car Diagrams for auction > by "Lewis J. Matt PhD" > BLI update from the Trains.om page > by > P70 Roof Vents > by > Re: MoPac baggage on #13 > by > Re: [PRR] BLI update from the Trains.com page > by "Bruce F. Smith" > Re: [PRR] BLI update from the Trains.om page > by > Re: [PRR] Branchline Blueprint and Yardmaster Models > by "Steve Hoxie" > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Look Whats new!! > From: "Gary Mittner" > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 10:25:43 -0500 (EST) > > List, > > Look whats' new at Strasburg. Heard it was finished yesterday.... > > http://photos.msn.com/imageserver/image.aspx?Image=HcZNnT9kkUh6!cx8ceVWZlWGneEMGtGc7j*SK1Dsprz7CUBVeuIvE2auYsz7GfHmzOgYryqC5wV0*9Rxna2qqmYUVmCaSZ*jHsy!hQAOJdDz90aumgHUQByiN56Gb9XFNC5nuuVG3gKZ53MLwflmYw$$ > .........Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Pennsy Freight Car Diagrams for auction > From: "Bill Volkmer" > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 11:25:06 -0500 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2EA1C.5DCC01F0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Listers and Listees: > > I have available for sale a large book (about 2 inches thick) containing > about 500 or so Pennsy freight car diagrams. I see some as old as the > XL,XK etc. wooden box cars and as new as the G39 ore jennies. I won't > guarantee that every last PRR freight car is in there but as we used to > say on the railroad "It's close enough for government work!" > > I will entertain offers, off list, until one week from today. > > > Have at it. > > Bill Volkmer > > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2EA1C.5DCC01F0 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > charset=3Dus-ascii"> > Message > > > >
class=3D027042016-14032003>Listers and=20 > Listees:
>
class=3D027042016-14032003> 
>
I have = > available for=20 > sale a large book (about 2 inches thick) containing about 500 or so = > Pennsy=20 > freight car diagrams. I see some as old as the XL,XK etc. wooden box = > cars and as=20 > new as the G39 ore jennies. I won't guarantee that every last PRR = > freight car is=20 > in there but as we used to say on the railroad "It's close enough for = > government=20 > work!"
>
class=3D027042016-14032003> 
>
I will = > entertain=20 > offers, off list, until one week from today.
>
class=3D027042016-14032003> 
>
class=3D027042016-14032003> 
>
Have = > at=20 > it.
>
class=3D027042016-14032003> 
>
Bill=20 > Volkmer
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2EA1C.5DCC01F0-- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Freight Car Diagrams for auction > From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 12:49:36 -0500 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C2EA28.2B2176C0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > MessageBill: > > Why don't you put this on e-bay. Then you don't have to mail us back = > each day so we know who is high bidder and what the current bid price = > is.=20 > > Lew=20 > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Bill Volkmer=20 > To: talk prr=20 > Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 11:25 AM > Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Freight Car Diagrams for auction > > Listers and Listees: > > I have available for sale a large book (about 2 inches thick) = > containing about 500 or so Pennsy freight car diagrams. I see some as = > old as the XL,XK etc. wooden box cars and as new as the G39 ore jennies. = > I won't guarantee that every last PRR freight car is in there but as we = > used to say on the railroad "It's close enough for government work!" > > I will entertain offers, off list, until one week from today. > > Have at it. > > Bill Volkmer > > ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C2EA28.2B2176C0 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > Message > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > > > >
Bill:
>
 
>
Why don't you put this on=20 > e-bay.   Then you don't have to mail us back each = > day so we=20 > know who is high bidder and what the current bid price = > is. 
>
 
>
Lew 
>
 
>
 
>
 
>
----- Original Message -----
>
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = > BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> > style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = > black">From:=20 > href=3D"mailto:bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com">Bill Volkmer > >
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 = > 11:25=20 > AM
>
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Freight = > Car=20 > Diagrams for auction
>

>
class=3D027042016-14032003>Listers and=20 > Listees:
>
class=3D027042016-14032003> 
>
I = > have available=20 > for sale a large book (about 2 inches thick) containing about 500 or = > so Pennsy=20 > freight car diagrams. I see some as old as the XL,XK etc. wooden box = > cars and=20 > as new as the G39 ore jennies. I won't guarantee that every last PRR = > freight=20 > car is in there but as we used to say on the railroad "It's close = > enough for=20 > government work!"
>
class=3D027042016-14032003> 
>
I = > will entertain=20 > offers, off list, until one week from today.
>
class=3D027042016-14032003> 
>
class=3D027042016-14032003> 
>
Have = > at=20 > it.
>
class=3D027042016-14032003> 
>
Bill = > > Volkmer
> > ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C2EA28.2B2176C0-- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: BLI update from the Trains.om page > From: > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:24:23 +0000 > > Oriental Limited has been authorized by Broadway Limited Imports to market an > analog version of the Broadway Limited New York Central J1e 4-6-4. The model > will be identical to the Broadway Limited Imports version except that it is > equipped for use on DC only and doesn’t include sound features. The locomotive, > offered in three road numbers, features constant-intensity directional lighting > and a minimum starting voltage of less than 1 volt. Oriental Limited, P. O. Box > 4171, Evansville, IN 47724; www.orientallimited.com. > > My conspiracy laden mind say's they are doing this to generate funds and we can > expect delays in the PRR stuff. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: P70 Roof Vents > From: > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:59:47 EST > > --part1_181.183e6f1a.2ba3aad3_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > And yet another question on roof vents. On the cars that received > mechanical air-cond., there was a large diameter, low profile vent at each > end of the car. > > Q: Were these mounted along the center-line of the roof or were some offset > to the > side od the center-line? > > Q: Some appear to be mounted to the coach side of the bulkhead while others > were > mounted on the vestibule side of the bulkhead. Was there a practice as > to > where, with respect to the bulkheads, these were mounted? > > Many thanks, > > Evan Leisey > RCT&HS 346 > > --part1_181.183e6f1a.2ba3aad3_boundary > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">  And yet another question on roof vents.  O= > n the cars that received mechanical air-cond.,  there was a large diame= > ter, low profile vent at each end of the car.
>
> Q:  Were these mounted along the center-line of the roof or were some=20= > offset to the
>        side od the center-line?
>
> Q:  Some appear to be mounted to the coach side of the bulkhead while=20= > others were
>       mounted on the vestibule side of the bulkhead= > .  Was there a practice as to
>       where, with respect to the bulkheads, these w= > ere mounted?
>
> Many thanks,
> FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Copperplate Gothic Bold" LANG=3D"0">
> FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Bookman Old Style" LANG=3D"0">Evan Leisey
> RCT&HS  346 > > --part1_181.183e6f1a.2ba3aad3_boundary-- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: MoPac baggage on #13 > From: > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 17:16:21 EST > > --part1_1e9.435295e.2ba3aeb5_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 3/13/03 12:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, > kwmcelre@rockwellcollins.com writes: > > > Rick, > > > > The primary mail, newspaper/catalog and express connecting trains on the > > Missouri Pacific were trains 3 and 4 between St. Louis and Fort Worth. > > They were primarily head-end trains, sometimes exceeding 20 cars. They > > also connected with the GM&O's "Fast Mail" serving Chicago. > > > > PRR train 13 westbound arrived at St. Louis about midnight and connected > > with MP train 3, leaving early in the morning. MP train 4 arrived at St. > > Louis late in the afternoon and connected with PRR train 32, the "St. > > Louisan," which left for New York just before midnight. > > > > I also think that the PRR and PC sometimes leased head-end cars from the MP > > if they ran short, since the MP had a sizeable and modern fleet of them. I > > often saw MP baggage/express cars sitting in Dayton Union Station in the > > late 1960's. > > > > For some reason, all of the MP/T&P express boxcars were stenciled, "For > > service on MP and T&P lines only." This would explain why they weren't > > seen elsewhere. It may be that the MP didn't want them being used by the > > Post Office when the MP had just invested in 200 new baggage/storage mail > > cars for that purpose in the early 1960's. Being taller, one could store > > more mail per linear foot (the normal billing measure.) That's just my > > wild guess, though. > > > > Ken > > > > Thanks, Ken > > That would explain why MoP headend equipment was concentrated on #13 > westbound, as we've seen in a number of photographs. And going the other > way, it explains why we had a #32, but not a #33, going through Dayton. > > Rick Tipton > Louisville KY > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West > > --part1_1e9.435295e.2ba3aeb5_boundary > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 3/13/03 12:46:07 PM Eastern Standar= > d Time, kwmcelre@rockwellcollins.com writes:
>
>
>
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Rick,
>
> The primary mail, newspaper/catalog and express connecting trains on the
> Missouri Pacific were trains 3 and 4 between St. Louis and Fort Worth.
> They were primarily head-end trains, sometimes exceeding 20 cars.  They= >
> also connected with the GM&O's "Fast Mail" serving Chicago.
>
> PRR train 13 westbound arrived at St. Louis about midnight and connected
> with MP train 3, leaving early in the morning.  MP train 4 arrived at S= > t.
> Louis late in the afternoon  and connected with PRR train 32, the "St.<= > BR> > Louisan," which left for New York just before midnight.
>
> I also think that the PRR and PC sometimes leased head-end cars from the MP<= > BR> > if they ran short, since the MP had a sizeable and modern fleet of them.&nbs= > p; I
> often saw MP baggage/express cars sitting in Dayton Union Station in the
> late 1960's.
>
> For some reason, all of the MP/T&P express boxcars were stenciled, "For<= > BR> > service on MP and T&P lines only."  This would explain why they wer= > en't
> seen elsewhere.  It may be that the MP didn't want them being used by t= > he
> Post Office when the MP had just invested in 200 new baggage/storage mail > > cars for that purpose in the early 1960's.  Being taller, one could sto= > re
> more mail per linear foot (the normal billing measure.)  That's just my= >
> wild guess, though.
>
> Ken
>

>
> Thanks, Ken
>
> That would explain why MoP headend equipment was concentrated on #13 westbou= > nd, as we've seen in a number of photographs.  And going the other way,= > it explains why we had a #32, but not a #33, going through Dayton.
>
> FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D"0">Rick Tipton
> Louisville KY
> Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= > /HTML> > > --part1_1e9.435295e.2ba3aeb5_boundary-- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI update from the Trains.com page > From: "Bruce F. Smith" > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:25:33 -0600 > > ndbprr@att.net said: > >Oriental Limited has been authorized by Broadway Limited Imports to market an > >analog version of the Broadway Limited New York Centralndbprr@att.net J1e > >4-6-4. The model > >will be identical to the Broadway Limited Imports version except that it is > >equipped for use on DC only and doesnít include sound features. The > >locomotive, > >offered in three road numbers, features constant-intensity directional > >lighting > >and a minimum starting voltage of less than 1 volt. Oriental Limited, P. > >O. Box > >4171, Evansville, IN 47724; www.orientallimited.com. > > > >My conspiracy laden mind say's they are doing this to generate funds and > >we can > >expect delays in the PRR stuff. > > Hehehe...a conspiracy round every corner? A reasonable alternative is that > this is a response to the WAIL of lament that arose from the stock DC crowd > and folks who wanted to put their own decoders in (like RailCommand). If > that is the case, its a winner for BLI since they open a new market with > almost no new investment...this may actually drive the other products > faster...so think positive! > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI update from the Trains.om page > From: > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:09:56 EST > > Oriental and Broadway Limited are both owned by the same individual. This > seems like smart marketing to me . Those that don't want sound and are > screaming that DCC is being shoved down their throats will now have a choice. > Hopefully all units in the future will be offered in both versions. > ----------------- Ken McCorry > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline Blueprint and Yardmaster Models > From: "Steve Hoxie" > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:35:41 -0600 > > Hi Mark--You asked: > > > > Anyway the question I have concerns the painting on the last > > Blueprint cars I bought. Set #16084, 40' 7" door PRR Circle Keystone > > boxcars , the roofs and roof walk are black with a light misting of > freight > > car red misted around the edges. Set # 10114, 50' PRR single door Circle > > Keystone boxcars, the roof is painted freight car red and the roof walk > is > > black. Is the painting of these cars prototypical or did Branchline goof. > I > > E-mailed Branchline with this same question and have never received a > > response. If I do need to paint these pieces is there a paint available > that > > is a close match. Any response would be greatly appreciated. Mark Taylor > > > On the Steam Freight Cars list--check out > http://www.steamfreightcars.com/ -- there was some discussion about the 40' > car. I think what Branchline was trying to do was represent a new car which > had "roof cement" applied to the roof, then the car was painted Freight Car > Color. The red you see on the roof is supposed to be overspray from the > sides and ends. I don't really like the way it came out so I just applied a > light Grimy Black weathering to the roof and weathered the sides to wipe out > the shine. I am not sure about the 50' car; I would guess that the > roofwalk is intended to be bare metal for better nonskid. > > Steve Hoxie > Pensacola FL > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > End of PRR-Talk Digest > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] N Scale hogs in Wilkes-Barre? Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 15:57:57 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell I have a two-stage question (most answers lead to more questions anyway :-): what cars and roadnames would be carrying hogs on the Wilkes-Barre branch in 1954? There was apparently a stock pen at Buttonwood (any idea which siding served it?) and one of the arranged freights (CSB-8) specifies hogs. Second stage: what N Scale models are suitable for this traffic? I think that the MT 35000 series would be suitable for a double-deck hog car (right?), but I don't know which roadnames would be right. The hogs come from Cincinatti and East St. Louis via Altoona. Neither the MT nor Atlas 40' stock cars look right for the PRR K7a and K8 cars, but they might be suitable for interchanged hogs (if any). Atlas 40' stock car (SOU): https://www.secure.atlasrr.com/mmmod1/Images/35241.GIF MT 40' Despatch stock car (ACL): http://www.micro-trains.com/images/35100x.jpg K7a diagram: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=k7a.gif&fr=cl K8 diagram: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=k8.gif&fr=cl Thanks for any help you can render! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 19:34:59 EST Subject: [PRR] Calculating Rail Transport Costs This isn't a PRR question. Today I watched a long train of coal filled hoppers moving south through downtown Fort Worth, two engines pulling and one pushing. I assume it was going to Houston for export or to some domestic power plant. As I watched, I wondered, "how much does it cost to move that stuff?" What are the components of pricing rail shipments, say commodities? There has to be a cost for the equipment use, a load cost at the front and an unload cost at the end, and a movement cost based on, what, loaded weight over distance? Just curiosity and nothing more (no salesmen!!) but, does anyone have a rough idea of what current rail pricing looks like? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Calculating Rail Transport Costs Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 20:00:08 -0500 Marty, As a retired Director of Marketing (Chief Marketing Officer) for a line haul railroad I could fill a book on railroad pricing and may fill you in with more detail when I get some time. But basically, the old phrase is the absolute truth under deregulation: "THAT THE TRAFFIC WILL BEAR" 'Twas the railroads that originated the phrase! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 7:34 PM Subject: [PRR] Calculating Rail Transport Costs > This isn't a PRR question. > > Today I watched a long train of coal filled hoppers moving south through > downtown Fort Worth, two engines pulling and one pushing. I assume it was > going to Houston for export or to some domestic power plant. > > As I watched, I wondered, "how much does it cost to move that stuff?" > > What are the components of pricing rail shipments, say commodities? There has > to be a cost for the equipment use, a load cost at the front and an unload > cost at the end, and a movement cost based on, what, loaded weight over > distance? > > Just curiosity and nothing more (no salesmen!!) but, does anyone have a rough > idea of what current rail pricing looks like? > > Regards, Marty > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Calculating Rail Transport Costs Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 20:06:02 -0500 CORRECTED ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Mahlkov" To: ; Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Calculating Rail Transport Costs > Marty, > > As a retired Director of Marketing (Chief Marketing Officer) for a line haul > railroad I could fill a book on railroad pricing and may fill you in with > more detail when I get some time. But basically, the old phrase is the > absolute truth under deregulation: "WHAT THE TRAFFIC WILL BEAR" 'Twas the > railroads that originated the phrase! > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 7:34 PM > Subject: [PRR] Calculating Rail Transport Costs > > > > This isn't a PRR question. > > > > Today I watched a long train of coal filled hoppers moving south through > > downtown Fort Worth, two engines pulling and one pushing. I assume it was > > going to Houston for export or to some domestic power plant. > > > > As I watched, I wondered, "how much does it cost to move that stuff?" > > > > What are the components of pricing rail shipments, say commodities? There > has > > to be a cost for the equipment use, a load cost at the front and an unload > > cost at the end, and a movement cost based on, what, loaded weight over > > distance? > > > > Just curiosity and nothing more (no salesmen!!) but, does anyone have a > rough > > idea of what current rail pricing looks like? > > > > Regards, Marty > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 06:32:45 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Trained Him Well From: Jerry Britton The other day my wife asked if she could visit a friend all day next Saturday who is recovering from cancer. My daughter would go along, to help with their two year old. She asked if it would be okay and could I keep our son occupied for an entire day. Of course the answer was "no problem!" So I "broke the news" to Andrew and asked what we might do for an entire day. Without hesitation he shouted "Let's got to Altoona and Cresson!" Sounds like a plan! If the weather looks good we'll head west. Might even try to find some locations on the old Cresson Secondary to photograph. I realize it looks totally different now, but a visit would put a "geographic" image into my mind. We usually do an Altoona one-day trip every year. We missed it last year. We spend about six hours trackside and keep track of how many trains we see. Our record is 23, including a very rare five-way meet at MO (helpers in the pocket and one coming out of Irvona in addition to the three mains). --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 08:18:00 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] P70 Roof Vents You are describing the ventilators on the P70 FBRs. Those are the post war moderizations with the porthole lavatory window. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== RDG2124@aol.com wrote: > And yet another question on roof vents. On the cars that received > mechanical air-cond., there was a large diameter, low profile vent at > each end of the car. > > Q: Were these mounted along the center-line of the roof or were some > offset to the > side od the center-line? > > Q: Some appear to be mounted to the coach side of the bulkhead while > others were > mounted on the vestibule side of the bulkhead. Was there a > practice as to > where, with respect to the bulkheads, these were mounted? > > Many thanks, > > Evan Leisey > RCT&HS 346 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:24:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/16/03 From: "Stephen H. Prosser" Dear Listers, Does anyone have an idea what a USRA builders plate might look like (if there was one) from Baldwin or ALCO (such as a 2-8-8-2); some eventually found their way, albeit in small numbers, to the Pennsy fleet circa WWII? Have tried to find a photo with enough detail to dope this out, but unsuccessful so far. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Steve Prosser Modeling Altoona and Environs _____________________________________________†\ / =ALTOONA= | / | \ HOME OF THE LARGEST RAILROAD SHOPS | \____________________________________________ | \ | \| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Chicago Chapter PRRT&HS Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:42:13 +0000 Since there are so many new people I thought I would take the opportunity to invite anyone within driving distance of Chicago to attend our meeting on 4/5 at the historic Pullman visitors center. This will probably become our permanent home as they are very receptive to having us meet there for minimal cost. The side benefit is it doesn't get much more railroad related than the Pullman company and they have a large number of railroad related exhibits on permanent display. We meet at 2:00 PM for about three hours and our topic this month will be Frank Birbirdick telling us of his experiences working in the St. Clair shops in Columbus. Please feel free to e mail me if you need specific directions or want to join us. This will be our third meeting and we should be a full fledged chapter by the end of the year. We already have about 25 people who have attended. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Norman L. Warfield Jr." Subject: [PRR] Any news on S.R.R's vandal recovery?? Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:46:55 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2EC72.86C79990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First let me start by apologizing to whomever it was (on this list) = that I sent this similar question too. It's my first "post", and thought = I could access the group by simply replying to one of the messages (not = so). With that said...Has anyone heard anymore about the recovery efforts = of Strasburg's recent vandalizing?? I heard that number plates, and = perhaps some marker lights were taken. How difficult is it, for the = S.R.R. to replace this kind of stuff...Can they just tool new ones (were = the stolen items original)?? Thanks to anyone who can update. Norm ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2EC72.86C79990 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    First let me start = by=20 apologizing to whomever it was (on this list) that I sent this similar = question=20 too. It's my first "post", and thought I could access the group by = simply=20 replying to one of the messages (not so).
    With that said...Has = anyone=20 heard anymore about the recovery efforts of Strasburg's recent = vandalizing?? I=20 heard that number plates, and perhaps some marker lights were taken. How = difficult is it, for the S.R.R. to replace this kind of stuff...Can they = just=20 tool new ones (were the stolen items original)?? Thanks to anyone who = can=20 update.
 
Norm
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2EC72.86C79990-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Mehano GG1s Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:20:16 +0000 The single motor IHC GG1's have a different drive than I have seen. It has a horizontally mounted motor with a coil spring universal joint to the drive. How well do these run and how well do they hold up? Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: USMCnewdog25431@cs.com Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:01:10 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Mehano GG1s --part1_1ed.4877615.2ba78386_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Norm, I have never personally owned one of these, but I did have one o the IHC premiere series with 2 motors. One time I took the IHC to the club everyone thought it was junk until they saw it run (it ran beautifully). I was told the older models weren't very good pullers and runners, but this is just what I was told! Mike Schock Sandusky, Ohio --part1_1ed.4877615.2ba78386_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Norm,

I have never personally owned one of these, but I did have one o the IHC pre= miere series with 2 motors. 

One time I took the IHC to the club everyone thought it was junk until they=20= saw it run (it ran beautifully).  I was told the older models weren't v= ery good pullers and runners, but this is just what I was told!

Mike Schock
Sandusky, Ohio

 --part1_1ed.4877615.2ba78386_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Mehano GG1s Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:08:34 -0500 I have several, they run fairly well and seem to hold up OK. Mine aren't running 24/7 and my use is not a good indicator of their possible longevity. Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:20 PM Subject: [PRR] Mehano GG1s > The single motor IHC GG1's have a different drive than I have seen. It has a > horizontally mounted motor with a coil spring universal joint to the drive. > How well do these run and how well do they hold up? Thanks, Norm Bell > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:23:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Derailment at East Conemaugh Greetings list. Seems like NS is having a lot of derailment troubles in the Johnstown area. Thursday night 5 or 6 full hopper cars on the pit track derailed spilling coal onto track 1 and closing it for some 12 hours. Anyone hear what caused the derailment?------Mark---- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:13:02 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Passenger diesel fueling on the main, Lines West In a message dated 3/16/03 12:27:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: EP20/EP22 Fuel Mileage > > From: > > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:07:42 -0500 (EST) > > > > Hello List, > > > > Does anyone know the fuel range of a A-B-A lash up of E units > > eastbound from Harrisburg? I'm trying to figure out the fuel stops for > > the Blue Ribbon Fleet enroute to Chicago. Thanks in advance. > > > > Dave Hopson > Dave, Have you gotten any answers to this so far? Assuming you meant westbound, it's well established that the first E-7's, fueled at Harrisburg, could just make a round trip to Detroit. E's were extended to Chicago once fuel stands were put up at the station in Crestline OH, and I'm pretty sure Fort Wayne got a near-identical set, possibly a little later. Down on the Panhandle, the same type of installation went in at the Richmond IN station (just west of the Ohio state line). This is roughly the same distance west from Pittsburgh as Fort Wayne, so one suspects a facility farther east on the Panhandle, at either Dennison or Columbus. Unfortunately, I do not remember such stands at either location. Can anyone else help both of us? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:13:02 EST Subject: [PRR] Passenger diesel fueling on the main, Lines West --part1_1df.4ac2138.2ba7e8be_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/16/03 12:27:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: EP20/EP22 Fuel Mileage > > From: > > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:07:42 -0500 (EST) > > > > Hello List, > > > > Does anyone know the fuel range of a A-B-A lash up of E units > > eastbound from Harrisburg? I'm trying to figure out the fuel stops for > > the Blue Ribbon Fleet enroute to Chicago. Thanks in advance. > > > > Dave Hopson > Dave, Have you gotten any answers to this so far? Assuming you meant westbound, it's well established that the first E-7's, fueled at Harrisburg, could just make a round trip to Detroit. E's were extended to Chicago once fuel stands were put up at the station in Crestline OH, and I'm pretty sure Fort Wayne got a near-identical set, possibly a little later. Down on the Panhandle, the same type of installation went in at the Richmond IN station (just west of the Ohio state line). This is roughly the same distance west from Pittsburgh as Fort Wayne, so one suspects a facility farther east on the Panhandle, at either Dennison or Columbus. Unfortunately, I do not remember such stands at either location. Can anyone else help both of us? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1df.4ac2138.2ba7e8be_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/16/03 1= 2:27:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: EP20/EP22 Fuel Mileage=
> From: <zootowerprr@webtv.net>
> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:07:42 -0500 (EST)
>
> Hello List,
>
>    Does anyone know the fuel range of a A-B-A lash up of= E units
> eastbound from Harrisburg? I'm trying to figure out the fuel stops for<= BR> > the Blue Ribbon Fleet enroute to Chicago. Thanks in advance.
>
> Dave Hopson


Dave,

Have you gotten any answers to this so far?  Assuming you meant westbou= nd, it's well established that the first E-7's, fueled at Harrisburg, could=20= just make a round trip to Detroit.  E's were extended to Chicago once f= uel stands were put up at the station in Crestline OH, and I'm pretty sure F= ort Wayne got a near-identical set, possibly a little later.

Down on the Panhandle, the same type of installation went in at the Richmond= IN station (just west of the Ohio state line).  This is roughly the sa= me distance west from Pittsburgh as Fort Wayne, so one suspects a facility f= arther east on the Panhandle, at either Dennison or Columbus.  Unfortun= ately, I do not remember such stands at either location.

Can anyone else help both of us?

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_1df.4ac2138.2ba7e8be_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:13:04 EST Subject: [PRR] Effingham and the Perry collection --part1_1d4.550ebfc.2ba7e8c0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/16/03 1:14:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > The site contains about 230+ PRR photos from the Otto Perry collection > held=20= > in the Denver Public Library. On page 2 of your trip down memory lane you > wi= > ll find one of the fine examples of Mr. Perry's work covering a set of > EP20'= > s on June 29, 1951, in (Lines West/Rick Tipton's territory) Effingham, IL. Oh, I wish it had been in my territory -- fanned there exactly twice (good action on both PRR and IC, but my camera equipment was poor). I look forward to viewing these pictures -- when Bell South gives us DSL out here. Viewing webpix on my current connection is sort of like giving a man a drop of water every 5 minutes when he's dying of thirst. Have heard from others that the site is really great (and not just for Pennsy pix). Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1d4.550ebfc.2ba7e8c0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/16/03 1= :14:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


The site contains about 230+ PR= R photos from the Otto Perry collection held=3D20=3D
in the Denver Public Library. On page 2 of your trip down memory lane you wi= =3D
ll find one of the fine examples of Mr. Perry's work covering a set of EP20'= =3D
s on June 29, 1951, in (Lines West/Rick Tipton's territory) Effingham, IL. <= /BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, I wish it had been in my territory -- fanned there exactly twice (good a= ction on both PRR and IC, but my camera equipment was poor).  I look fo= rward to viewing these pictures -- when Bell South gives us DSL out here.&nb= sp; Viewing webpix on my current connection is sort of like giving a man a d= rop of water every 5 minutes when he's dying of thirst.

Have heard from others that the site is really great (and not just for Penns= y pix).


Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_1d4.550ebfc.2ba7e8c0_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:05:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger diesel fueling on the main, Lines West Hello Rick, Yes, I did get some answers. Fuel stop for westbound passenger trains is Crestline Oh. I never been there but I have seen photos of EP20/22s fuelling. Altoona was a water stop for both east and westbound trains. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Passenger diesel fueling on the main, Lines West Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:06:18 -0500 Crestline was roughly halfway from Harrisburg to Chicago (Second crew change point eastbound, third crew changepoint westbound). As an aside,.......The absolute nemisis of the EP-20s and 22s was adding water at Fort Wayne. The water supply there is so rich in iron deposits that it was a KILLER on the steam generator tubing. The wreck derrick there used only highly treated water and the steam locos there were among the first to be replaced by diesels for this reason. The Fort Wayne wreck derrick was a frequent visitor to Renovo Shop for rework. Renovo was hq for derrick repairs. A simple dripping faucet in Fort Wayne will cause a rust spot in a porcelein sink! There was a Foreman at Harrisburg Diesel Shop who absolutely made a CAREER out of designing modifications to the steam generators in the E-7s and E-8s (and later the GG-1s) to keep failures to a minimum. Rust was the chief problem. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of zootowerprr@webtv.net Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 8:06 AM To: RickTipton@aol.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger diesel fueling on the main, Lines West Hello Rick, Yes, I did get some answers. Fuel stop for westbound passenger trains is Crestline Oh. I never been there but I have seen photos of EP20/22s fuelling. Altoona was a water stop for both east and westbound trains. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:49:05 EST Subject: [PRR] Want HO ALCO PA --part1_5f.36a6d3a6.2ba899f1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lists, I am collecting the necessary rolling stock to model the 1947 Freedom Train. I am looking for a Life Like Proto 2000 ALCO PA, stock number 043321650, small number boards, non-dynamic brake version. So far a search of hobby shops on the internet has been fruitless for the undec. unit. Does anyone know of a shop or individual having one of these units for sale? A preference is for an unopened box. Many thanks, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 --part1_5f.36a6d3a6.2ba899f1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lists,

   I am collecting the necessary rolling stock to model the 1947 F= reedom Train.  I am looking for a Life Like Proto 2000 ALCO PA, stock n= umber 043321650,  small number boards, non-dynamic brake version. = So far a search of hobby shops on the internet has been fruitless for the u= ndec. unit.  Does anyone know of a shop or individual having one of the= se units for sale?  A preference is for an unopened box.

Many thanks,

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  346 --part1_5f.36a6d3a6.2ba899f1_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:53:00 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR 4-4-2 Imperials on South Wind? In a message dated 3/14/03 1:11:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] PS442 vs PS442A > From: > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:53:48 EST > > In a message dated 3/13/03 10:20:18 AM Central Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > << Can anyone account for -- via photos or consist reports -- where any of > the > original PS442A's may have been used in the 1950's? >> > > Imperial Crest was listed on the South Wind in 2/1/54 consist. Imperial > Crest was moved to the Cincinnatti-Mackinaw City Northern Arrow on April > 19, > 1954 consist, replacing Imperial Terrace, a 4069-B. > > On 2/1/54, other 4069-D Imperial cars Lawn, Path, Trail, View, and Mantle > were listed as extras for 62-63, 28-29, 61-60, 59-58, and 31-30 > > 4069B cars assigned to the South Wind included Imperial Terrace, Range, > and > Plateau. 4069B cars Imperial Pass, Park, and Point were in two-tone gray > and, though it is hard to decipher the 1954 consist report, I kind of get > the > idea they were in a rotation pool with the Sante Fe,either in > coast-to-coast > service or more likely just on a loan basis, one car assigned to the South > Wind, two to the Sante Fe. > > Bob Zoeller > Hi Bob, If I read this right, it suggests I should be able to find gray+gray Imperials on the South Wind. That's not a thing I've spotted yet in the slides and photos I've been vetting for an article on the PRR at Louisville Union Station. However, Pullmans in that paint scheme were common in Louisville on the First Saturday in May, better known here as Kentucky Derby Day - they came in from all directions on the various Derby Specials. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:53:00 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR 4-4-2 Imperials on South Wind? --part1_174.17fd2087.2ba8c50c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/14/03 1:11:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] PS442 vs PS442A > From: > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:53:48 EST > > In a message dated 3/13/03 10:20:18 AM Central Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > << Can anyone account for -- via photos or consist reports -- where any of > the > original PS442A's may have been used in the 1950's? >> > > Imperial Crest was listed on the South Wind in 2/1/54 consist. Imperial > Crest was moved to the Cincinnatti-Mackinaw City Northern Arrow on April > 19, > 1954 consist, replacing Imperial Terrace, a 4069-B. > > On 2/1/54, other 4069-D Imperial cars Lawn, Path, Trail, View, and Mantle > were listed as extras for 62-63, 28-29, 61-60, 59-58, and 31-30 > > 4069B cars assigned to the South Wind included Imperial Terrace, Range, > and > Plateau. 4069B cars Imperial Pass, Park, and Point were in two-tone gray > and, though it is hard to decipher the 1954 consist report, I kind of get > the > idea they were in a rotation pool with the Sante Fe,either in > coast-to-coast > service or more likely just on a loan basis, one car assigned to the South > Wind, two to the Sante Fe. > > Bob Zoeller > Hi Bob, If I read this right, it suggests I should be able to find gray+gray Imperials on the South Wind. That's not a thing I've spotted yet in the slides and photos I've been vetting for an article on the PRR at Louisville Union Station. However, Pullmans in that paint scheme were common in Louisville on the First Saturday in May, better known here as Kentucky Derby Day - they came in from all directions on the various Derby Specials. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_174.17fd2087.2ba8c50c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/14/03 1:11:18 AM Eastern Standard= Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] PS442 vs PS4= 42A
From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:53:48 EST

In a message dated 3/13/03 10:20:18 AM Central Standard Time,
jerry@pennsyrr.com writes:

<< Can anyone account for -- via photos or consist reports -- where an= y of the
original PS442A's may have been used in the 1950's? >>

Imperial Crest was listed on the  South Wind in 2/1/54 consist.  I= mperial
Crest was moved to the Cincinnatti-Mackinaw City Northern Arrow on April 19,=
1954 consist, replacing Imperial Terrace, a 4069-B.

On 2/1/54, other 4069-D Imperial cars Lawn, Path, Trail, View, and Mantle were listed as extras for 62-63, 28-29, 61-60, 59-58, and 31-30

4069B cars assigned to the South Wind included Imperial Terrace,  = Range, and
  Plateau. 4069B cars Imperial Pass, Park, and Point were in two-tone g= ray
and, though it is hard to decipher the 1954 consist report, I kind of get th= e
idea they were in a rotation pool with the Sante Fe,either in coast-to-coast=
service or more likely just on a loan basis, one car assigned to the South <= BR> Wind, two to the Sante Fe.

Bob Zoeller


Hi Bob,

If I read this right, it suggests I should be able to find gray+gray Imperia= ls on the South Wind.  That's not a thing I've spotted yet in the slide= s and photos I've been vetting for an article on the PRR at Louisville Union= Station. 

However, Pullmans in that paint scheme were common in Louisville on the Firs= t Saturday in May, better known here as Kentucky Derby Day - they came in fr= om all directions on the various Derby Specials. 

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_174.17fd2087.2ba8c50c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:27:57 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Altoona Roadtrip From: Jerry Britton Weather continues to waver for this Saturday for the Cresson area. Current forecase is for a "few showers" (30%). Besides railfanning in Cresson on the main line, I plan to venture down the Cresson Branch itself...something I've never done. My layout will include a portion of the Cresson yard -- not by intent, but by function. I've checked out the CT1000C and compared it to MapQuest. I realize there wasn't much industry along this branch until you've ventured quite a few miles, which I don't plan to do on this outing. I just want to get a feel for the geography for the first few miles. Out of Cresson... MP 2.1 Luckett, Pa. MP 2.8 Munster, Pa. (had carload delivery and station) MP 5.0 Noel, Pa. MP 6.0 Ebensburg Junction connection with Black Lick Secondary MP 6.9 Loretto Road MP 11.1 Bradley Junction (had station) connection with Susquehanna Extension I don't plan to go beyond Bradley Junction. Can anyone who's been out this way tell me if there's anything specific to look for? I see on MapQuest that just west of Loretto Road the branch makes an "S" curve. I assume this is due to geography. A creek is crossed, but the curve can't be for the creek or a bridge would have been built. I suspect there is a substantial grade here. Not sure if there's any vantage point for photography. I have the local map and know where the roads are, but I don't know the topography or how private property comes into play. We'll see. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:39:35 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona Roadtrip On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, Jerry Britton wrote: > MP 6.9 Loretto Road > MP 11.1 Bradley Junction (had station) > connection with Susquehanna Extension > > I don't plan to go beyond Bradley Junction. Can anyone who's been out this > way tell me if there's anything specific to look for? Well, if you split onto the Susquehanna Extension you can see the tunnel under the ridge that US219 runs on, and on the other side of the hill, the broad curve where it crossed the road, but I don't know how exciting that is. As you go north there's an operational (I assume) coal facility just shy of the current end of track. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:44:37 -0500 Subject: [PRR] "Around Cresson and the Alleghenies" From: Jerry Britton Last week I was given a lead on this book for photos of the Cresson loco facility: Pulling, Sr. Anne Frances. "Around Cresson and the Alleghenies". Dover, NH: Arcadia Publishing Corp., 1997. ISBN: 0-7524-0505-5. Part of the "Images of America" series. 128 pages, heavily illustrated. I ordered the book ($16.99) and it was money well spent. Maybe only a dozen or so worthwhile photos, but all that I had never seen before. One was a fairly close up view of the loco facility from the Cresson Branch...right by the end of the coal wharf. Also some more pics and a site map of the resort that once was at Cresson. That place was amazing for its day...capacity over 900! Thanks for the lead! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Altoona Roadtrip Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 16:00:24 -0500 In October 1958 there was a fantrip from Pittsburgh to Brownsville then up to Cresson via South Fork. Over the main line to Cresson. At Cresson we exchanged the two unit E-7 (5845) for a two unit RSD-12 (8606-7 I think) and went west to Indiana then down over the Conemaugh Div. back to Pittsburgh. By the time we got to the Cresson Branch it was getting dark but as I remember it, the line was like cutting through a 30 mile car wash brush set up. Don't remember seeing a damned thing out the windows. Probably the first last and only time a passenger train ran over that God-forsaken piece of track. Coaches were mostly hot P-70s but the heavyweight Pullman Strasburg RR Pequea Valley was coupled next to the locos. In 1958 people were asking "What the Hell is the Strasburg Railroad?" Guess that might be classified as a "pre-historic" train ride? I wuz on it. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 2:28 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Altoona Roadtrip Weather continues to waver for this Saturday for the Cresson area. Current forecase is for a "few showers" (30%). Besides railfanning in Cresson on the main line, I plan to venture down the Cresson Branch itself...something I've never done. My layout will include a portion of the Cresson yard -- not by intent, but by function. I've checked out the CT1000C and compared it to MapQuest. I realize there wasn't much industry along this branch until you've ventured quite a few miles, which I don't plan to do on this outing. I just want to get a feel for the geography for the first few miles. Out of Cresson... MP 2.1 Luckett, Pa. MP 2.8 Munster, Pa. (had carload delivery and station) MP 5.0 Noel, Pa. MP 6.0 Ebensburg Junction connection with Black Lick Secondary MP 6.9 Loretto Road MP 11.1 Bradley Junction (had station) connection with Susquehanna Extension I don't plan to go beyond Bradley Junction. Can anyone who's been out this way tell me if there's anything specific to look for? I see on MapQuest that just west of Loretto Road the branch makes an "S" curve. I assume this is due to geography. A creek is crossed, but the curve can't be for the creek or a bridge would have been built. I suspect there is a substantial grade here. Not sure if there's any vantage point for photography. I have the local map and know where the roads are, but I don't know the topography or how private property comes into play. We'll see. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:03:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Treasure in the attic Greetings list. Found some PRR treasure in a relatives attic last weekend. Along with some ETTs and handbooks were two books titled PRR "Diesel Electric Road Locomotives" Operating instructions for Locomotive Enginemen,Firemen and Helpers. 1949. It covers everything from how to start it up to flushing the toilet. I didn't realize the Prr had 9 different Diesel locomotives in its stable in 1949. I may sell one book. They are in excellent shape. ----Mark---- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: [PRR] PRR gon presentation help? Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:40:10 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2EDA7.B6D6D890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all; I was hoping that some of you out there might help out on a presentation being given to the PRRT&HS in May on the modeling of PRR gondolas. I have modeled many thus far, but certainly cannot put together all I would like to have photos (slide format) of for the convention. Jack Consoli has also graciously modeled several classes that were not only exceptionally difficult, but badly needed modeling projects for information purposes. The ones that I could particularly use slides of (in model form) and model info, in the presentation are: G29a, b, c, or d (not G29 proper) G37 G38 G42, 43, or 44 I would greatly appreciate any help, and will fully credit any and all persons that can supply a good slide of their pride and joy. In addition, if any one has any information, prototype photos and/or models of the G29e, Gtc26, Gtc28, G36b, G32b would also be greatly appreciated. For those of you attending the meet May 1-4, I would like to meet with you and talk PRR gons, any time! Elden ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2EDA7.B6D6D890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PRR gon presentation help?

Hi all;
        I was = hoping that some of you out there might help out on a presentation = being given to the PRRT&HS in May on the modeling of PRR = gondolas.

        I have = modeled many thus far, but certainly cannot put together all I would = like to have photos (slide format) of for the convention.  Jack = Consoli has also graciously modeled several classes that were not only = exceptionally difficult, but badly needed modeling projects for = information purposes.

        The ones = that I could particularly use slides of (in model form) and model info, = in the presentation are:
G29a, b, c, or d (not G29 proper)
G37
G38
G42, 43, or 44
        I would = greatly appreciate any help, and will fully credit any and all persons = that can supply a good slide of their pride and joy.

        In = addition, if any one has any information, prototype photos and/or = models of the G29e, Gtc26, Gtc28, G36b, G32b would also be greatly = appreciated.

        For those = of you attending the meet May 1-4, I would like to meet with you and = talk PRR gons, any time!
Elden

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2EDA7.B6D6D890-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] BLI GG1 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 18:47:03 -0500

BLI has posted a new set of pictures of the GG1 on their website. It purports to be a new preproduction sample. I wonder if this is the "this is how she will look when you get her" sample. I did email BLI about the N&W Class A and they replied that it should be in the hands of customers by the end of April. (I am a big 1218 fan) I wonder if the GG1 will be in stores about the same time.
 
Eric Lauterbach.
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger diesel fueling on the main, Lines West Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:54:06 -0500 Early on, before the permanent fueling facilities were put in, a temporary, mobile fueling rig was used for E7's 5900A/5901A. I saw the drawing for it - consisted of an FGRa flat with pump apparatus on it and was coupled to a TM10 tank car. I don't have the stuff handy, but is was stationed in one of the "M"-towns in Ohio - Mansfield I believe (which is just east of Crestline), but possibly Massillon, c. 1946. There was also a drawing of one stationed at 28th St. yard in Pittsburgh - but not sure of the chronology here without the drawings in front of me. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Volkmer To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 10:06 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Passenger diesel fueling on the main, Lines West > Crestline was roughly halfway from Harrisburg to Chicago (Second crew > change point eastbound, third crew changepoint westbound). > > As an aside,.......The absolute nemisis of the EP-20s and 22s was adding > water at Fort Wayne. The water supply there is so rich in iron deposits > that it was a KILLER on the steam generator tubing. The wreck derrick > there used only highly treated water and the steam locos there were > among the first to be replaced by diesels for this reason. The Fort > Wayne wreck derrick was a frequent visitor to Renovo Shop for rework. > Renovo was hq for derrick repairs. > > A simple dripping faucet in Fort Wayne will cause a rust spot in a > porcelein sink! > > There was a Foreman at Harrisburg Diesel Shop who absolutely made a > CAREER out of designing modifications to the steam generators in the > E-7s and E-8s (and later the GG-1s) to keep failures to a minimum. Rust > was the chief problem. > > WDV > > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of > zootowerprr@webtv.net > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 8:06 AM > To: RickTipton@aol.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger diesel fueling on the main, Lines West > > > Hello Rick, > > Yes, I did get some answers. Fuel stop for westbound passenger > trains is Crestline Oh. I never been there but I have seen photos of > EP20/22s fuelling. Altoona was a water stop for both east and westbound > trains. > > Dave Hopson > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:14:29 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR OH fuel facilities From: Frederick Ripley but is was stationed in one of the "M"-towns in Ohio - Mansfield Yes, the January 1979 issue of "Trains" has a lengthy article about the E7, and one of the segments is by a PRR employee assigned to maintain those first 2 E7's. They were assigned to the "Red Arrow", and fueled at Mansfield, just to the east of where the trains left the Pittsburgh-Chicago main at Toledo Jct. No doubt the fuel facilities were built at Crestline very shortly after, and serviced the dieselized Chicago trains (plus the Detroit trains for their last few years of operation, when they were rerouted via Crestline and Bucyrus). Fred R. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:20:44 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Turtle Creek Branch Question Where was Saunders Station located relative to the Turtle Creek branch crossing Saunders Station Road? Any photos of the station know to exist? Thanks. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Freight Car Diagrams for Auction/sale Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:34:49 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C2EDFA.CE504850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several listers contacted me off list and asked how much they should bid if I didn't publish the bidding results. So. as of Wednesday morning the high bid received is $50 for a book containing approximately 450-500 old PRR freight car diagrams, several dating back to the era of wooden freight cars, but many as new as the G39 and H41 etc. As originally stated, I will consider bids received up until Friday March 21st. WDV ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C2EDFA.CE504850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Several listers=20 contacted me off list and asked how much they should bid if I didn't = publish the=20 bidding results.
 
So. as = of Wednesday=20 morning the high bid received is $50 for a book containing approximately = 450-500=20 old PRR freight car diagrams, several dating back to the era of wooden = freight=20 cars, but many as new as the G39 and H41 etc.
 
As = originally=20 stated, I will consider bids received up until Friday March=20 21st.
 
WDV
------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C2EDFA.CE504850-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Boston Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:09:41 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2EE29.81D59C08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Listers, Am going to Boston, so my son can check out a College are there any good hobby shops that might have HO PRR stuff (Mandatory PRR content) in the area? In 1984 I was in Boston and found a shop called Downtown Hobby. In a wall display case was an extensive collection of PRR steam and electric brass locos! Hoping to find a place like that. Chris Chany ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2EE29.81D59C08 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Listers,

Am going to Boston, so my son can check out a College are there any good hobby shops that might have HO PRR stuff (Mandatory PRR content) in the area? In 1984 I was in Boston and found a shop called Downtown Hobby. In a wall display case was an extensive collection of PRR steam and electric brass locos! Hoping to find a place like that.

 

Chris Chany

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2EE29.81D59C08-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:21:13 -0500 Subject: [PRR] More Cresson Questions From: Jerry Britton In prep for my "field trip" this weekend, weather permitting... The CT1000C, 1945, shows the following on the Cresson Branch at .4 miles from the main line: Frank Callandra Matt Calandra Both are listed as "for individual use". Any one know what business these two individuals were in? Only other entity listed at Cresson were the car shops. Next, a few folks mentioned that there are some remnants of coal mines, tipples, etc., along the Irvona Branch and that might make a better tour than the Cresson Branch. Looked at track charts from the 1950's, and the Irvona is really lacking in branches connected to it, unlike the Cresson Branch. However, there are a few tiples right online. The "Around Cresson" book has two photos of a mine "on the edge of town". I believe this to be "Penna. Coll. No. 7 (Penna. C.& C. Corp.)" listed as being on the Irvona Branch at .9 miles from the main line. In looking on MapQuest, if you follow Webster Street out of Sankertown (north side of Cresson) it becomes Cresson Shaft Road and crosses the Irvona Branch and there is a street that juts toward the branch called Coal Road. I imagine this must be the vicinity of where that mine was. Can anyone confirm? Further down the Irvona Branch, at 8.0 miles from the main, was "Penna. Coll. No. 8". Anyone know if there are any remnants there? There was also a siding there. MapQuest shows just such a location just south of the town of Ashville. Thanks for the help...makes planning the use of time while on the road much more efficient! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:05:28 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] More Cresson Questions In a message dated 3/19/03 10:27:55 AM, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Frank Callandra Matt Calandra >> First thing, my bet is that one of these names is misspelled. They should both be the same and my guess is that they were brothers. Have you tried a google search on both variants? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Mehano single motor GG1's Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:27:49 +0000 I bought a Mehano G on E bay for $19.00 which I intend to repaint but the drive has me obsessing a little. It is a single motor version with the motor in the center. If the clips are popped off the drive towers they can be inserted backward and allign with the truck side frames since the pivot is directly over the center driver. The hole would have to be enlarged a little at the center to allow the truck to swing. Each end could have it's own motor just like the IHC twin motor units. Beside adding some work and costs to the engine I don't see any advantages to doing this. Any thoughts? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Mehano single motor GG1's Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:45:33 -0500 You would get better results by just adding extra weight or if you are energetic, a flywheel too. Are you going to install DCC? If not, adding a constant brightness, reversing headlight circuit would be nice, also put "glass" in the cab, windshield wipers, an interior with fireman and engineer, wire safety rails at the windows, safety straps at the nose doors and weather it appropriately. There is no easy way to make the body sit lower on the trucks, should be about 14' - 9" from the top of the rail to the top of the roof. It will look great when your finished. BTW, the safety straps on the nose doors are easy to make using .012" brass wire with a piece of a wound wire guitar string glued to the center. Give it just a little catenary curve to make it look as if it has been hanging there forever. Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 12:27 PM Subject: [PRR] Mehano single motor GG1's > I bought a Mehano G on E bay for $19.00 which I intend to repaint but the drive > has me obsessing a little. It is a single motor version with the motor in the > center. If the clips are popped off the drive towers they can be inserted > backward and allign with the truck side frames since the pivot is directly over > the center driver. The hole would have to be enlarged a little at the center > to allow the truck to swing. Each end could have it's own motor just like the > IHC twin motor units. Beside adding some work and costs to the engine I don't > see any advantages to doing this. Any thoughts? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:31:16 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] More Cresson Questions --part1_c3.31c372b9.2baa49b4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry: A google search of Calandra shows Matt Colandra & Sons as follows Matt Calandra & Sons, 124 Calandra Lane, Cresson appears they are now in the recycling business. There a reference for Frank Colandra as follows: Calandra=E2=80=99s Scrap Metals 600 Arch St. Frank Calandra c. 1900=E2=80=99s =20 Rich Orr --part1_c3.31c372b9.2baa49b4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry:

A google search of Calandra shows Matt Colandra & Sons as follows

Matt Calandra & Sons, 124 Calandra Lane, Cresson

appears they are now in the recycling business.

There a reference for Frank Colandra as follows:

Calandra=E2=80=99s Sc= rap Metals

600 Arch St.

Frank Calandra

c. 1900=E2=80=99s


Rich Orr
 --part1_c3.31c372b9.2baa49b4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:58:52 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] More Cresson Questions In a message dated 3/19/03 4:38:41 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com writes: << A google search of Calandra shows Matt Colandra & Sons as follows Matt Calandra & Sons, 124 Calandra Lane, Cresson appears they are now in the recycling business. There a reference for Frank Colandra as follows: Calandra’s Scrap Metals 600 Arch St. Frank Calandra c. 1900’s Rich Orr >> Beautiful follow through and catch, Rich. I don't want to say I told you so... There have to be folks who have done this before and know the tricks to it (I once had a professor of folk lore who taught that when collecting folks songs, always take HALF a bottle of whiskey with you to help get the singing going), but I bet that somewhere at Colandra's business location, there is a barn/building/storage facility that is chock full of old records and papers. The proper approach, especially by a non-profit museum/library (tax deductions) might get access to the material. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:18:43 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Railroads and "Standard Time" In a message dated 3/19/03 5:44:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:09:31 -0600 > From: Frederick Ripley > Subject: Daylight time in 1960's > > Hi All, > > I am modeling Crestline-Ft. Wayne in the mid-60's, and have been studying > Public and Employee timetables. One thing that is not completely clear is > standard/daylight time. After 1966 in PTT, there is a note about "Standard > Time Act of 1966", making daylight savings time standard except for states > that have a law exempting themselves (I assume IN stayed on Standard time > back then, as they do now). Despite this note, the summer PTT's list > "standard time", but I take it this means the standard time for the > timezone > at that time of year, meaning daylight savings. Before 1966, there is a > note about "prevailing local time". As you can tell, there is room for > confusion. > > The ETT's make no mention of the time act that I can find, but list several > trains as running an hour ahead during daylight savings time. So > presumably > all the other schedules are listed in standard time even during the summer > timetables. > > Can anyone give some definitive answers to the above? > > Thanks, Fred R. > Fred, There was a lengthy discussion of Standard Time and Daylight Time over on PRR-Talk a couple of years ago. I can send you chunks of this as I captured them, if you like wading through a lengthy set of notes. One factoid that came out in that discussion is that up to 1966, local time (especially daylight time) was local option, and the capricious, checkerboard nature of this was finally adjudged to be a burden on Interstate Commerce, hence the US could pass a law that essentially told state legislatures to assign time in coherent chunks. But my favorite factoid implied strongly that Lines West (including all of Ohio and east to Pittsburgh) were originally operated on Central Standard Time). I found a good description of the history of time zones at: http://www.webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/g.html and enjoyed the discussion of how the boundaries of time zones seem always to creep westward (giving more daylight at the end of the day). For example, Eastern Time moved westward to Columbus, then to Cincinnati, and finally to Louisville. A nice piece of trivia is that, in the summer, you can leave Louisville in any direction but east and soon have to turn your watch back an hour (because Indiana's Eastern Standard Time and western Kentucky's Central Daylight Time are the same time). Reading between the lines of all of this, before 1966 the subject of "Daylight Savings Time" must have been a hot religious and political potato for the railroads, and I've noted that employee time tables (including PRR) went to great lengths not to use the term "Daylight Savings". Instead, as a good railroad rule should, it simply dictated that time be kept from a given master clock. I can remember when I was a kid there were still religious groups that protested Daylight Savings as being unnatural and against God's plan -- probably much as in the 19th Century the original setting up of standard time zones was attacked as not being "God's time" (because it replaced the older use of local solar noon as a timekeeper). Having seen Hoosiers bristle at Kentuckians' mention of "slow time" from spring to fall, I know this subject can be a very emotional one -- it's hard for all involved to realize that all times are artificial measurements, set up by scientists so that their measurements are consistent (scientists call this "repeatability"). Actually, except for convenient factoring, it's nutty for the world to have time units in 24 parts (hours), 60 parts (minutes), 60 parts (seconds) and then go decimal with milliseconds, microseconds, etc. Yet even countries that are otherwise completely metric use this bizarre system of time measure. PS -- no, the "hour" in your bible is not one twenty fourth of a day -- it means something else. Also, there is some scientific evidence that, in Old Testament times, the earth turned just a little faster than once every 24 hours/1440 minutes/86,400 seconds. A theory says the earth's rotation has been braked by friction in the flow of its liquid magma. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:18:43 EST Subject: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard Time" --part1_67.c8394d6.2baa7f03_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/19/03 5:44:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:09:31 -0600 > From: Frederick Ripley > Subject: Daylight time in 1960's > > Hi All, > > I am modeling Crestline-Ft. Wayne in the mid-60's, and have been studying > Public and Employee timetables. One thing that is not completely clear is > standard/daylight time. After 1966 in PTT, there is a note about "Standard > Time Act of 1966", making daylight savings time standard except for states > that have a law exempting themselves (I assume IN stayed on Standard time > back then, as they do now). Despite this note, the summer PTT's list > "standard time", but I take it this means the standard time for the > timezone > at that time of year, meaning daylight savings. Before 1966, there is a > note about "prevailing local time". As you can tell, there is room for > confusion. > > The ETT's make no mention of the time act that I can find, but list several > trains as running an hour ahead during daylight savings time. So > presumably > all the other schedules are listed in standard time even during the summer > timetables. > > Can anyone give some definitive answers to the above? > > Thanks, Fred R. > Fred, There was a lengthy discussion of Standard Time and Daylight Time over on PRR-Talk a couple of years ago. I can send you chunks of this as I captured them, if you like wading through a lengthy set of notes. One factoid that came out in that discussion is that up to 1966, local time (especially daylight time) was local option, and the capricious, checkerboard nature of this was finally adjudged to be a burden on Interstate Commerce, hence the US could pass a law that essentially told state legislatures to assign time in coherent chunks. But my favorite factoid implied strongly that Lines West (including all of Ohio and east to Pittsburgh) were originally operated on Central Standard Time). I found a good description of the history of time zones at: http://www.webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/g.html and enjoyed the discussion of how the boundaries of time zones seem always to creep westward (giving more daylight at the end of the day). For example, Eastern Time moved westward to Columbus, then to Cincinnati, and finally to Louisville. A nice piece of trivia is that, in the summer, you can leave Louisville in any direction but east and soon have to turn your watch back an hour (because Indiana's Eastern Standard Time and western Kentucky's Central Daylight Time are the same time). Reading between the lines of all of this, before 1966 the subject of "Daylight Savings Time" must have been a hot religious and political potato for the railroads, and I've noted that employee time tables (including PRR) went to great lengths not to use the term "Daylight Savings". Instead, as a good railroad rule should, it simply dictated that time be kept from a given master clock. I can remember when I was a kid there were still religious groups that protested Daylight Savings as being unnatural and against God's plan -- probably much as in the 19th Century the original setting up of standard time zones was attacked as not being "God's time" (because it replaced the older use of local solar noon as a timekeeper). Having seen Hoosiers bristle at Kentuckians' mention of "slow time" from spring to fall, I know this subject can be a very emotional one -- it's hard for all involved to realize that all times are artificial measurements, set up by scientists so that their measurements are consistent (scientists call this "repeatability"). Actually, except for convenient factoring, it's nutty for the world to have time units in 24 parts (hours), 60 parts (minutes), 60 parts (seconds) and then go decimal with milliseconds, microseconds, etc. Yet even countries that are otherwise completely metric use this bizarre system of time measure. PS -- no, the "hour" in your bible is not one twenty fourth of a day -- it means something else. Also, there is some scientific evidence that, in Old Testament times, the earth turned just a little faster than once every 24 hours/1440 minutes/86,400 seconds. A theory says the earth's rotation has been braked by friction in the flow of its liquid magma. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_67.c8394d6.2baa7f03_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/19/03 5:44:16 AM Eastern Standard= Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 5
   Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:09:31 -0600
   From: Frederick Ripley <fjr@mchsi.com>
Subject: Daylight time in 1960's

Hi All,

I am modeling Crestline-Ft. Wayne in the mid-60's, and have been studying Public and Employee timetables.  One thing that is not completely clear= is
standard/daylight time.  After 1966 in PTT, there is a note about "Stan= dard
Time Act of 1966", making daylight savings time standard except for states that have a law exempting themselves (I assume IN stayed on Standard time back then, as they do now).  Despite this note, the summer PTT's list "standard time", but I take it this means the standard time for the timezone=
at that time of year, meaning daylight savings.  Before 1966, there is=20= a
note about "prevailing local time".  As you can tell, there is room for=
confusion.

The ETT's make no mention of the time act that I can find, but list several<= BR> trains as running an hour ahead during daylight savings time.  So presu= mably
all the other schedules are listed in standard time even during the summer timetables.

Can anyone give some definitive answers to the above?

Thanks, Fred R.


Fred,

There was a lengthy discussion of Standard Time and Daylight Time over on PR= R-Talk a couple of years ago.  I can send you chunks of this as I captu= red them, if you like wading through a lengthy set of notes.

One factoid that came out in that discussion is that up to 1966, local time=20= (especially daylight time) was local option, and the capricious, checkerboar= d nature of this was finally adjudged to be a burden on Interstate Commerce,= hence the US could pass a law that essentially told state legislatures to a= ssign time in coherent chunks.

But my favorite factoid implied strongly that Lines West (including all of O= hio and east to Pittsburgh) were originally operated on Central Standard Tim= e).

I found a good description of the history of time zones at:
http://www.webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/g.html

and enjoyed the discussion of how the boundaries of time zones seem always t= o creep westward (giving more daylight at the end of the day).  For exa= mple, Eastern Time moved westward to Columbus, then to Cincinnati, and final= ly to Louisville.  A nice piece of trivia is that, in the summer, you c= an leave Louisville in any direction but east and soon have to turn your wat= ch back an hour (because Indiana's Eastern Standard Time and western Kentuck= y's Central Daylight Time are the same time).

Reading between the lines of all of this, before 1966 the subject of "Daylig= ht Savings Time" must have been a hot religious and political potato for the= railroads, and I've noted that employee time tables (including PRR) went to= great lengths not to use the term "Daylight Savings".  Instead, as a g= ood railroad rule should, it simply dictated that time be kept from a given=20= master clock. 

I can remember when I was a kid there were still religious groups that prote= sted Daylight Savings as being unnatural and against God's plan -- probably=20= much as in the 19th Century the original setting up of standard time zones w= as attacked as not being "God's time" (because it replaced the older use of=20= local solar noon as a timekeeper).

Having seen Hoosiers bristle at Kentuckians' mention of "slow time" from spr= ing to fall, I know this subject can be a very emotional one -- it's hard fo= r all involved to realize that all times are artificial measurements, set up= by scientists so that their measurements are consistent (scientists call th= is "repeatability").

Actually, except for convenient factoring, it's nutty for the world to have=20= time units in 24 parts (hours), 60 parts (minutes), 60 parts (seconds) and t= hen go decimal with milliseconds, microseconds, etc.  Yet even countrie= s that are otherwise completely metric use this bizarre system of time measu= re.

PS -- no, the "hour" in your bible is not one twenty fourth of a day -- it m= eans something else.  Also, there is some scientific evidence that, in=20= Old Testament times, the earth turned just a little faster than once every 2= 4 hours/1440 minutes/86,400 seconds.  A theory says the earth's rotatio= n has been braked by friction in the flow of its liquid magma.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_67.c8394d6.2baa7f03_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:17:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] More Cresson Questions --part1_33.35d1aac4.2baa8cb8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marty, My google search actually located a number of Calandra family members still living in Cresson. Jerry, you might want to contact them. They may have information or old family photos of the facilites. I would be most interested if you find anything as my layout now in the planning phase begins at the tunnels and covers the west slope to JD interlocking. I am including the Cresson branch and South Fork branch. Rich Orr --part1_33.35d1aac4.2baa8cb8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marty,

My google search actually located a number of Calandra family members still=20= living in Cresson. 

Jerry, you might want to contact them.  They may have information or ol= d family photos of the facilites.  I would be most interested if you fi= nd anything as my layout now in the planning phase begins at the tunnels and= covers the west slope to JD interlocking.  I am including the Cresson=20= branch and South Fork branch.

Rich Orr --part1_33.35d1aac4.2baa8cb8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Duane C. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] More Cresson Questions Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:46:41 -0500 Most of the remnants of mines and tipples along the Irvona branch have rotted away through the years. Most of the remains now consist of rotting ties and boards from the tipples and areas where the coal has prevented vegetation from growing back. Near the town of Amsbry, south of Ashville there is a large concrete structure near the railroad that appears that it may of been part of a mine. I have a New York Central employee timetable from 1911 and it includes a map that indicates that the New York Central had trackage rights on the Irvona branch from Irvona to Amsbry. I have been unable to find any other information about these trackage rights. At the junction of the Stevens Branch near milepost 13 there is a tipple in the woods that is in better shape than most. The track is still in place at the tipple but is no longer connected to the Irvona Branch. By the size of the trees growing in the track it most of been last used in the 1960's. Just south of the town of Frugality there are coke ovens located along the west side of route 53. These were served by the Irvona Branch. I do not know if the siding that you spoke of south of Ashville is still in place but there is still a siding located between the towns of Frugality and Van Ormer. There appears to have been three different tipples located at this siding at one time. Also at this location a branch went west to serve coke ovens near the town of Fiske. The bridge piers where it crossed Clearfield Creek are still in place. If you have any other questions about the Irvona or Bellwood Branches let me know. I have lived my entire life within a couple miles of each. Duane Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: [PRR] More Cresson Questions > Next, a few folks mentioned that there are some remnants of coal mines, > tipples, etc., along the Irvona Branch and that might make a better tour > than the Cresson Branch. > > Looked at track charts from the 1950's, and the Irvona is really lacking in > branches connected to it, unlike the Cresson Branch. However, there are a > few tiples right online. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:20:15 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Crestline-Ft. Wayne freight schedules, 1967 From: Frederick Ripley Hi All, I am modeling Crestline-Ft. Wayne in the mid-60's. I will do two different "operating sessions", so I can vary diesels somewhat. The latter period will be late spring 1967; the earlier probably late spring 1965. I have put together a list of arranged freight schedules from the 4/30/67 ETT, with scheduled times at Adams, IN, and West Yard (west end Crestline). Of course, the trains from Toledo join the main at Bucyrus, so only appear at West Yard. Many of these trains have come up in various discussions; for instance, someone posted a great list of the PR schedules a month or two ago, with some description of their consists. That is exactly the kind of info I am looking for- origin, destination (if I don't have that filled in), typical consist, typical power (most trains were certainly any mixture of 2nd generation power by that date, but maybe there were some patterns someone can point out), likely to operate in multiple sections, etc. Lots of other potential questions: for instance, did both CG-2 and CG-4 go to Greenville? Did they both handle perishables? Does "C" in the "AC" symbols mean Conway? Were all the Detroit and Toledo trains carrying substantial autos and autoparts by that time? What trains (secondary?) were most likely to have F's or GP9's, rather than 2nd gen. power? I realize this is a substantial request, but I would be delighted with any info that anyone can contribute, whenever you have time. Pondering these schedules is a really fascinating look at a very busy RR. Thanks, Fred R. Arranged Freight Train Service-Eastward Effective April 30, 1967 (EST) Symbol Adams West Yard Route Notes ED-4 2:20 AM Detroit-Enola CB-2 1:45 AM 4:25 AM Chicago- TT-10 5:30 AM Detroit-Enola pig TT-8 3:10 AM 5:50 AM Chicago-Baltimore pig TT-2 4:05 AM 6:35 AM Chicago-Meadows pig NF-6 4:20 AM 7:05 AM Chicago-Harimus Cove livestock ST-2 11:00 AM Toledo- FW-8 9:45 AM 12:40 PM Chicago-Harimus Cove ED-2 4:25 PM Detroit-Enola CS-8 2:15 PM 5:45 PM Ft. Wayne-Greenville AST-4 4:05 PM 6:45 PM Chicago- CG-4 4:25 PM 8:00 PM Chicago-Greenville APS-4 8:45 PM Toledo- CG-2 5:04 PM 9:33 PM: Chicago-Greenville AC-4 6:00 PM 9:00 PM Chicago- AC-2 6:30 PM 10:00 PM Chicago- Westward Symbol West Yard Adams Route Notes APS-3 12:05 AM Toledo autoparts PR-3 12:45 AM 3:30 AM Phil.-Chicago piggyback, AP, merchandise PR-5 1:45 AM 4:30 AM Conway-Chicago western conn. PR-7 2:45 AM 5:30 AM Har. Cove-Chicago piggyback, merchandise TM-1 7:30 AM Toledo CD-1 10:15 AM Toledo ED-3 10:30 AM Enola-Detroit WC-1 12:01 PM 4:00 PM ED-1 1:00 PM Enola-Toledo TT-1 8:15 PM 10:30 Kearny-Chicago pig TT-9 8:45 PM Kearny-Detroit pig PR-1 10:45 PM 1:30 AM Enola-Chicago piggyback, merchandise ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weinland" Subject: [PRR] Train Movements Thru Altoona Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 00:11:45 -0600 I've been studying PRR train schedules (1959-1960 timeframe) posted on Mark D. Bej's site (http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/). It appears most trains take about 1 hour from arriving to leaving Altoona. This seems like a short amount of time to change engines, change cabins, pick up, and set out cars. Especially if those cars are put over the hump. Can someone please tell me if I'm reading this correctly? Thanks for any help, Ron Weinland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:26:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] More Cresson Questions From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3130986399_33802275 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/19/03 5:31 PM, "SUVCWORR@aol.com" wrote: > A google search of Calandra shows Matt Colandra & Sons as follows >=20 > Matt Calandra & Sons, 124 Calandra Lane, Cresson >=20 > appears they are now in the recycling business. >=20 > There a reference for Frank Colandra as follows: >=20 > Calandra=B9s Scrap Metals >=20 > 600 Arch St. >=20 > Frank Calandra >=20 > c. 1900=B9s >=20 >=20 Thanks, Rich, that would be it. Bennett Levin contacted me off-list and tol= d me there is a scrap business there now. The CT1000 incorrectly spells the last name, which is why I didn=B9t find it on Google. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3130986399_33802275 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] More Cresson Questions On 3/19/03 5:31 PM, "SUVCWORR@aol.com" <S= UVCWORR@aol.com> wrote:

A google search of Cal= andra shows Matt Colandra & Sons as follows

Matt Calandra & Sons, 124 Calandra Lane, Cresson

appears they are now in the recycling business.

There a reference for Frank Colandra as follows:

Calandra’s Scrap Meta= ls

600 Arch St.

Frank Calandra

c. 1900’s


Thanks, Rich, that would be it. Bennett = Levin contacted me off-list and told me there is a scrap business there now.= The CT1000 incorrectly spells the last name, which is why I didn’t fi= nd it on Google.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com  &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are
providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit
our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------
 --B_3130986399_33802275-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard Time" Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:03:08 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C2EEB7.2587D540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I seem to remember as a kid growing up in the 1940s along the New York Central and New Haven Railroads, during the summer when Daylight Savings Time was in effect, one had to subtract an hour when reading the public timetables because the railroads always operated on Standard Time and did not (re)pubish the public timetables in Daylight Savings Time. I assume this was to save on printing costs and paper. So if the timetable said the train would leave at 7 AM and you showed up at 7 AM, you were an hour early for your train! WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of RickTipton@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:19 PM To: PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com; PRR@egroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard Time" In a message dated 3/19/03 5:44:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 5 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:09:31 -0600 From: Frederick Ripley Subject: Daylight time in 1960's Hi All, I am modeling Crestline-Ft. Wayne in the mid-60's, and have been studying Public and Employee timetables. One thing that is not completely clear is standard/daylight time. After 1966 in PTT, there is a note about "Standard Time Act of 1966", making daylight savings time standard except for states that have a law exempting themselves (I assume IN stayed on Standard time back then, as they do now). Despite this note, the summer PTT's list "standard time", but I take it this means the standard time for the timezone at that time of year, meaning daylight savings. Before 1966, there is a note about "prevailing local time". As you can tell, there is room for confusion. The ETT's make no mention of the time act that I can find, but list several trains as running an hour ahead during daylight savings time. So presumably all the other schedules are listed in standard time even during the summer timetables. Can anyone give some definitive answers to the above? Thanks, Fred R. Fred, There was a lengthy discussion of Standard Time and Daylight Time over on PRR-Talk a couple of years ago. I can send you chunks of this as I captured them, if you like wading through a lengthy set of notes. One factoid that came out in that discussion is that up to 1966, local time (especially daylight time) was local option, and the capricious, checkerboard nature of this was finally adjudged to be a burden on Interstate Commerce, hence the US could pass a law that essentially told state legislatures to assign time in coherent chunks. But my favorite factoid implied strongly that Lines West (including all of Ohio and east to Pittsburgh) were originally operated on Central Standard Time). I found a good description of the history of time zones at: http://www.webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/g.html and enjoyed the discussion of how the boundaries of time zones seem always to creep westward (giving more daylight at the end of the day). For example, Eastern Time moved westward to Columbus, then to Cincinnati, and finally to Louisville. A nice piece of trivia is that, in the summer, you can leave Louisville in any direction but east and soon have to turn your watch back an hour (because Indiana's Eastern Standard Time and western Kentucky's Central Daylight Time are the same time). Reading between the lines of all of this, before 1966 the subject of "Daylight Savings Time" must have been a hot religious and political potato for the railroads, and I've noted that employee time tables (including PRR) went to great lengths not to use the term "Daylight Savings". Instead, as a good railroad rule should, it simply dictated that time be kept from a given master clock. I can remember when I was a kid there were still religious groups that protested Daylight Savings as being unnatural and against God's plan -- probably much as in the 19th Century the original setting up of standard time zones was attacked as not being "God's time" (because it replaced the older use of local solar noon as a timekeeper). Having seen Hoosiers bristle at Kentuckians' mention of "slow time" from spring to fall, I know this subject can be a very emotional one -- it's hard for all involved to realize that all times are artificial measurements, set up by scientists so that their measurements are consistent (scientists call this "repeatability"). Actually, except for convenient factoring, it's nutty for the world to have time units in 24 parts (hours), 60 parts (minutes), 60 parts (seconds) and then go decimal with milliseconds, microseconds, etc. Yet even countries that are otherwise completely metric use this bizarre system of time measure. PS -- no, the "hour" in your bible is not one twenty fourth of a day -- it means something else. Also, there is some scientific evidence that, in Old Testament times, the earth turned just a little faster than once every 24 hours/1440 minutes/86,400 seconds. A theory says the earth's rotation has been braked by friction in the flow of its liquid magma. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C2EEB7.2587D540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I seem=20 to remember as a kid growing up in the 1940s along the New York Central = and New=20 Haven Railroads, during the summer when Daylight Savings Time was in = effect, one=20 had to subtract an hour when reading the public timetables because the = railroads=20 always operated on Standard Time and did not (re)pubish the  public = timetables in Daylight Savings Time.  I assume this was to save = on =20 printing costs and paper.  So if the timetable said the train would = leave=20 at 7 AM and you showed up at 7 AM, you were an hour early for your=20 train!
 
WDV
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of=20 RickTipton@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:19=20 PM
To: PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com; PRR@egroups.com;=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard=20 Time"

In a message dated 3/19/03 5:44:16 AM = Eastern=20 Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 5
   Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 = 21:09:31=20 -0600
   From: Frederick Ripley=20 <fjr@mchsi.com>
Subject: Daylight time in 1960's

Hi=20 All,

I am modeling Crestline-Ft. Wayne in the mid-60's, and = have been=20 studying
Public and Employee timetables.  One thing that is = not=20 completely clear is
standard/daylight time.  After 1966 in = PTT,=20 there is a note about "Standard
Time Act of 1966", making = daylight=20 savings time standard except for states
that have a law exempting = themselves (I assume IN stayed on Standard time
back then, as = they do=20 now).  Despite this note, the summer PTT's list
"standard = time", but=20 I take it this means the standard time for the timezone
at that = time of=20 year, meaning daylight savings.  Before 1966, there is = a
note about=20 "prevailing local time".  As you can tell, there is room=20 for
confusion.

The ETT's make no mention of the time act = that I=20 can find, but list several
trains as running an hour ahead during = daylight savings time.  So presumably
all the other = schedules are=20 listed in standard time even during the = summer
timetables.

Can=20 anyone give some definitive answers to the above?

Thanks, = Fred=20 R.


Fred,

There was a lengthy discussion = of=20 Standard Time and Daylight Time over on PRR-Talk a couple of years = ago. =20 I can send you chunks of this as I captured them, if you like wading = through a=20 lengthy set of notes.

One factoid that came out in that = discussion is=20 that up to 1966, local time (especially daylight time) was local = option, and=20 the capricious, checkerboard nature of this was finally adjudged to be = a=20 burden on Interstate Commerce, hence the US could pass a law that = essentially=20 told state legislatures to assign time in coherent chunks.

But = my=20 favorite factoid implied strongly that Lines West (including all of = Ohio and=20 east to Pittsburgh) were originally operated on Central Standard=20 Time).

I found a good description of the history of time zones=20 at:
http://www.webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/g.html

and = enjoyed the=20 discussion of how the boundaries of time zones seem always to creep = westward=20 (giving more daylight at the end of the day).  For example, = Eastern Time=20 moved westward to Columbus, then to Cincinnati, and finally to=20 Louisville.  A nice piece of trivia is that, in the summer, you = can leave=20 Louisville in any direction but east and soon have to turn your watch = back an=20 hour (because Indiana's Eastern Standard Time and western Kentucky's = Central=20 Daylight Time are the same time).

Reading between the lines of = all of=20 this, before 1966 the subject of "Daylight Savings Time" must have = been a hot=20 religious and political potato for the railroads, and I've noted that = employee=20 time tables (including PRR) went to great lengths not to use the term=20 "Daylight Savings".  Instead, as a good railroad rule should, it = simply=20 dictated that time be kept from a given master clock. 

I = can=20 remember when I was a kid there were still religious groups that = protested=20 Daylight Savings as being unnatural and against God's plan -- probably = much as=20 in the 19th Century the original setting up of standard time zones was = attacked as not being "God's time" (because it replaced the older use = of local=20 solar noon as a timekeeper).

Having seen Hoosiers bristle at=20 Kentuckians' mention of "slow time" from spring to fall, I know this = subject=20 can be a very emotional one -- it's hard for all involved to realize = that all=20 times are artificial measurements, set up by scientists so that their=20 measurements are consistent (scientists call this=20 "repeatability").

Actually, except for convenient factoring, = it's nutty=20 for the world to have time units in 24 parts (hours), 60 parts = (minutes), 60=20 parts (seconds) and then go decimal with milliseconds, microseconds,=20 etc.  Yet even countries that are otherwise completely metric use = this=20 bizarre system of time measure.

PS -- no, the "hour" in your = bible is=20 not one twenty fourth of a day -- it means something else.  Also, = there=20 is some scientific evidence that, in Old Testament times, the earth = turned=20 just a little faster than once every 24 hours/1440 minutes/86,400=20 seconds.  A theory says the earth's rotation has been braked by = friction=20 in the flow of its liquid magma.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the = Pennsylvania=20 Railroad and especially PRR Lines West =
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C2EEB7.2587D540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Train Movements Thru Altoona Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:45:31 -0500 Regarding crew change times at Altoona: Typically they did not change engines. Only changed cabin cars and added helpers (westbound), and make an air test. They operated slowly over a pit with two guys staring up at the undersides of the cars looking for loose or dragging equipment. Often they would spot something that required a half hour or more to fix. If not the train was usually on the move in an hour or less. And speaking of fast crew changes, I used to marvel at how the New York Central did that trick in Erie without ever stopping the train. This was in the days when the cabeese were pooled. The train would slow to a crawl as it approached the end of the Union Station platform and the new crew would hop on board. By the time the locomotive reached the opposite end of the platform, the old crew would hop off and as the caboose came within reach, the conductor hopped on and the inbound conductor hopped off. The wheels never ceased turning during the entire maneuver! WDV (Professional Train Watcher) -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Weinland Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 1:12 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Train Movements Thru Altoona I've been studying PRR train schedules (1959-1960 timeframe) posted on Mark D. Bej's site (http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/). It appears most trains take about 1 hour from arriving to leaving Altoona. This seems like a short amount of time to change engines, change cabins, pick up, and set out cars. Especially if those cars are put over the hump. Can someone please tell me if I'm reading this correctly? Thanks for any help, Ron Weinland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Crestline-Ft. Wayne freight schedules, 1967 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:57:05 -0500 Regarding Freight Train symbols in the late 1960s, I can fill you in on a few tid-bits: The "NF" in NF-6 stands for "No Feed". This was because of the law that required live stock to be removed from the train, rested and fed, after I think it was 36 hours. So the NF meant "KEEP IT MOVING" so we don't violate the feed laws. ED-4 ran from Detroit to Enola and on to Newcastle Del. Primarily with autoparts. It did not run on Mondays but Chrysler insisted on seven days a week operation and they were willing to pay for it. So for a period of time, on Mondays the train was only six or so cars long with usually an F-7 hauling it, but not always, just to placate Chrysler. The AST-4 stood for "Astro" and was a "Rocket like train" of high class merchandise. It received diesels at Enola and operated via the Bel-Del (not electrified) connecting with the L&HR and New Haven at Maybrook getting the freight to New England as fast as the Astronauts might get it there. (Ah those Marketing types!) I seem to remember ED-3 as a drag freight,primarily empties and VERY low priority west out of Enola. Often had Alco Fas or sharks in the earlier days. Does this help any/ WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Frederick Ripley Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:20 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Crestline-Ft. Wayne freight schedules, 1967 Hi All, I am modeling Crestline-Ft. Wayne in the mid-60's. I will do two different "operating sessions", so I can vary diesels somewhat. The latter period will be late spring 1967; the earlier probably late spring 1965. I have put together a list of arranged freight schedules from the 4/30/67 ETT, with scheduled times at Adams, IN, and West Yard (west end Crestline). Of course, the trains from Toledo join the main at Bucyrus, so only appear at West Yard. Many of these trains have come up in various discussions; for instance, someone posted a great list of the PR schedules a month or two ago, with some description of their consists. That is exactly the kind of info I am looking for- origin, destination (if I don't have that filled in), typical consist, typical power (most trains were certainly any mixture of 2nd generation power by that date, but maybe there were some patterns someone can point out), likely to operate in multiple sections, etc. Lots of other potential questions: for instance, did both CG-2 and CG-4 go to Greenville? Did they both handle perishables? Does "C" in the "AC" symbols mean Conway? Were all the Detroit and Toledo trains carrying substantial autos and autoparts by that time? What trains (secondary?) were most likely to have F's or GP9's, rather than 2nd gen. power? I realize this is a substantial request, but I would be delighted with any info that anyone can contribute, whenever you have time. Pondering these schedules is a really fascinating look at a very busy RR. Thanks, Fred R. Arranged Freight Train Service-Eastward Effective April 30, 1967 (EST) Symbol Adams West Yard Route Notes ED-4 2:20 AM Detroit-Enola CB-2 1:45 AM 4:25 AM Chicago- TT-10 5:30 AM Detroit-Enola pig TT-8 3:10 AM 5:50 AM Chicago-Baltimore pig TT-2 4:05 AM 6:35 AM Chicago-Meadows pig NF-6 4:20 AM 7:05 AM Chicago-Harimus Cove livestock ST-2 11:00 AM Toledo- FW-8 9:45 AM 12:40 PM Chicago-Harimus Cove ED-2 4:25 PM Detroit-Enola CS-8 2:15 PM 5:45 PM Ft. Wayne-Greenville AST-4 4:05 PM 6:45 PM Chicago- CG-4 4:25 PM 8:00 PM Chicago-Greenville APS-4 8:45 PM Toledo- CG-2 5:04 PM 9:33 PM: Chicago-Greenville AC-4 6:00 PM 9:00 PM Chicago- AC-2 6:30 PM 10:00 PM Chicago- Westward Symbol West Yard Adams Route Notes APS-3 12:05 AM Toledo autoparts PR-3 12:45 AM 3:30 AM Phil.-Chicago piggyback, AP, merchandise PR-5 1:45 AM 4:30 AM Conway-Chicago western conn. PR-7 2:45 AM 5:30 AM Har. Cove-Chicago piggyback, merchandise TM-1 7:30 AM Toledo CD-1 10:15 AM Toledo ED-3 10:30 AM Enola-Detroit WC-1 12:01 PM 4:00 PM ED-1 1:00 PM Enola-Toledo TT-1 8:15 PM 10:30 Kearny-Chicago pig TT-9 8:45 PM Kearny-Detroit pig PR-1 10:45 PM 1:30 AM Enola-Chicago piggyback, merchandise ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:18:49 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] Train Movements Thru Altoona Ron, et al., My comments are not necessarily Altoona specific, rather generally apply to freight train operations at all locations. In addition to WDV's (Bill's) nice dissertation on changing crews, etc. when an arriving train was scheduled to setoff and pickup blocks, those to be setoff were taken from the train and typically placed on a designated arrival track, then the block to be picked up was added to the train. The block to be picked up had already been classified and was just sitting on a departure track awaiting arrival of the train that was protecting it. Typically the blocks in a train were so placed within the train as to minimize train handling at the intermediate terminals. The setoff would then taken by a yard crew to be classified, if necessary. Sometimes, the setoffs would not require classification but would be picked up, as is, by a later train whose destination was different from the train that dropped it off. This is sometimes referred to a "block swapping," something, which I witnessed in later years, the MP doing very well using mainline sidings. This kept blocks out of terminals, which can add to a car's delay in transit. Also the smooth move crew relief that Bill referred to on the NYC at Erie was also, as I recall, referred to as "footboard relief." Also keep in mind that not all freight trains made both pickups and setoffs at intermediate terminals. Some made neither, some made pickups only, others made setoffs only. The study of the details of PRR freight train operations is a very interesting and time consuming project, as it was very dynamic, ever changing. And the subtle changes were not always reflected in the ETT arranged freight service schedules. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:21:56 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR Crestline-Ft. Wayne From: Frederick Ripley Thanks Bill!! That is just the sort of info I'm looking for! Do you know where NF-6 terminated? I've seen shots of it deep in electrified territory, so maybe NJ? Would the empties on ED-3 have been primarily autos parts cars, or any mix? Interesting that the lower-numbered AST freight, AST-2, went via Columbus, and AST-4 via Crestline. That may not have implied an ordering of priority, though. Thanks again, Fred R. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Back dating GG1's Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:25:03 +0000 I have been asked in a private e mail how I backdate the pilot of G's so thought that maybe someone else might be interested. Briefly there were three pilot styles: 1. 4800 had a plate pilot of what appears to be cast steel that was wider at the bottom then the top and ugly. However since no one makes a riveted car body it is impossible to model. 2. 4801 - 4848 had a steel plate pilot that was straight across and identical in shape to the later ones. that is the one I have started modeling. 3. 4848 - 4939 had a drop coupler and there is a curved housing under the coupler that all manufacturers have modeled. It is that feature that primarily distinguishes which class the G is from. As near as I can tell there were no other external differences as built. Steps: 1. make a vertical cut through the bottom middle of the opening to cut the housing in half. 2. Carefully score the base of the angle where the housing meets the flat part of the pilot from the outside. This is easy to do so that it retains the cast on steam and air connections and make a horizontal cut under the coupler pocket into the housing down to the flat area outside the housing. 3. Snap the housing halfs off using a pair of pliars. 4. File or sand the edges square. You may also want to carve as much of the strip as possible from the bottom of the pilot that gets painted silver on the later models as the early ones didn't have this strip. Painted black you need some really good eyes to even see it. 5. Install the new coupler. This needs to be done at this point since the screw interferes with the new pilot slightly in some cases. 6. Cut a styrene filler piece to fill in the opening that was made by removing the drop coupler housing. You may have to notch it slightly at the top to clear the coupler mounting screw if you use one. 7. Fill in the joint with plastic filler and sand flush 8. Paint the truck frame and pilot black and you are done. Total time to do one end is about twenty minutes. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:39:27 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Crestline-Ft. Wayne Fred, et al., Re ED-3. This may not be the time period of your interest but in 1954 ED-3 (Enola-Detroit-Daily) departed Enola with: Block 1 - Toledo and beyond, loads and empties, indiscriminate Block 2 - Conway Classification (includes cars for Crestline, inclusive to Lima inclusive. At Altoona Pickup additions to Blocks 1 and 2 per above. At Kiski Jct. Pickup additions to Block 1. At Conway Setoff Block 2. Pickup additions to Block A. At Toledo Terminate. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Crestline-Ft. Wayne Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:44:52 -0500 Not sure where NF-6 terminated but Waverly seems to come to mind. ED-3 usually had a bunch of hoppers. Made a pickup at Lewistown. There is a picture in one of the Pennsy Diesel years, possibly Vol. 1 of it leaving Enola with brand new U-25bs. A friend was riding in the cab that day, that's how I remember it. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Frederick Ripley Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:22 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR Crestline-Ft. Wayne Thanks Bill!! That is just the sort of info I'm looking for! Do you know where NF-6 terminated? I've seen shots of it deep in electrified territory, so maybe NJ? Would the empties on ED-3 have been primarily autos parts cars, or any mix? Interesting that the lower-numbered AST freight, AST-2, went via Columbus, and AST-4 via Crestline. That may not have implied an ordering of priority, though. Thanks again, Fred R. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:08:09 -0600 Subject: [PRR] ED-3 From: Frederick Ripley Thanks Al! Interesting that it handled cars for Lima, which would have had to have been dropped at Crestline. Fred R. in 1954 ED-3 (Enola-Detroit-Daily) departed Enola with: Block 1 - Toledo and beyond, loads and empties, indiscriminate Block 2 - Conway Classification (includes cars for Crestline, inclusive to Lima inclusive. At Altoona Pickup additions to Blocks 1 and 2 per above. At Kiski Jct. Pickup additions to Block 1. At Conway Setoff Block 2. Pickup additions to Block A. At Toledo Terminate. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:38:45 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] ED-3 Fred sez> Interesting that it handled cars for Lima, which would have had to have been dropped at Crestline. Yes, the 1954 Conway block was made up of cars destined for Canton, Crestline, Akron, Mingo Jct., Erie, Youngstown, Niles, Mansfield and Scully and most points in between. These cars were then relayed to these terminals by at least eight different trains - ED-37 Conway - Canton and Crestline. CE-5 Conway - Akron CP-5 Conway - Mingo Jct. PYC-1 Conway - Canton EP-1 Conway - Erie PY-1 Conway - Youngstown and Niles PF-9 Conway - Mansfield and Crestline ED-54 Conway - Scully ED was an interesting symbol as it stood for Enola-Detroit and well as Eastern Division, i.e., trains operating in the Eastern Division of the PFW&C. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard Time" Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:01:24 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0099_01C2EEF1.93AD6AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was born in 1936 and was just beginning to track the railroads in 1947-48. That is the way I remember it. There was an entire issue of the NRHS Bulletin in the late 1980s or early 1990s devoted to how the railroads pushed for a standard time in the 1880s. Prior to about 1883 every county in America had its own version of time and often they were 30 minutes apart from one another. It was the railroads that brought sanity over chaos just because of a few botched meets. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PennsyNut [mailto:PennsyNut@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:35 PM To: Bill Volkmer Subject: Re: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard Time" Hi Bill. I missed the previous discussion in PRR-Talk or elsewhere regarding DST. The "Standard Time Act of 1966". And now you are saying in 1940? I was born in 1938, and do not remember any of that - I was too young. The 50's were high school and college, and I didn't really pay attention to when the actual change took place. It's obvious that it was over a period of time - but from 1940 to 1966? Can you enlighten this for me? Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist PRRTHS #1204 and SPF ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Volkmer To: RickTipton@aol.com ; PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com ; PRR@egroups.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2003 07:03 Subject: RE: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard Time" I seem to remember as a kid growing up in the 1940s along the New York Central and New Haven Railroads, during the summer when Daylight Savings Time was in effect, one had to subtract an hour when reading the public timetables because the railroads always operated on Standard Time and did not (re)pubish the public timetables in Daylight Savings Time. I assume this was to save on printing costs and paper. So if the timetable said the train would leave at 7 AM and you showed up at 7 AM, you were an hour early for your train! WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of RickTipton@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:19 PM To: PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com; PRR@egroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard Time" In a message dated 3/19/03 5:44:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 5 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:09:31 -0600 From: Frederick Ripley Subject: Daylight time in 1960's Hi All, I am modeling Crestline-Ft. Wayne in the mid-60's, and have been studying Public and Employee timetables. One thing that is not completely clear is standard/daylight time. After 1966 in PTT, there is a note about "Standard Time Act of 1966", making daylight savings time standard except for states that have a law exempting themselves (I assume IN stayed on Standard time back then, as they do now). Despite this note, the summer PTT's list "standard time", but I take it this means the standard time for the timezone at that time of year, meaning daylight savings. Before 1966, there is a note about "prevailing local time". As you can tell, there is room for confusion. The ETT's make no mention of the time act that I can find, but list several trains as running an hour ahead during daylight savings time. So presumably all the other schedules are listed in standard time even during the summer timetables. Can anyone give some definitive answers to the above? Thanks, Fred R ------=_NextPart_000_0099_01C2EEF1.93AD6AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I was=20 born in 1936 and was just beginning to track the railroads in 1947-48. = That is=20 the way I remember it.
 
There=20 was an entire issue of the NRHS Bulletin in the late 1980s or early = 1990s=20 devoted to how the railroads pushed for a standard time in the = 1880s. =20 Prior to about 1883 every county in America had its own version of time = and=20 often they were 30 minutes apart from one another.  It was the = railroads=20 that brought sanity over chaos just because of a few botched=20 meets.
 
WDV
-----Original Message-----
From: = PennsyNut=20 [mailto:PennsyNut@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 20, = 2003 2:35=20 PM
To: Bill Volkmer
Subject: Re: [PRR] Railroads = and=20 "Standard Time"

Hi Bill.
 
I missed the previous = discussion in=20 PRR-Talk or elsewhere regarding DST.  The "Standard Time Act of=20 1966".  And now you are saying in 1940?
 
I was born in 1938, and do not = remember=20 any of that - I was too young.  The 50's were high school and = college,=20 and I didn't really pay attention to when the actual change took = place. =20 It's obvious that it was over a period of time - but from 1940 to=20 1966?
 
Can you enlighten this for=20 me?
 
Morgan=20 Bilbo
Ferroequinologist
PRRTHS #1204 and SPF
----- Original Message -----
To: RickTipton@aol.com ; PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com= ; PRR@egroups.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20
Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2003 07:03
Subject: RE: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard Time"
I=20 seem to remember as a kid growing up in the 1940s along the New York = Central=20 and New Haven Railroads, during the summer when Daylight Savings Time = was in=20 effect, one had to subtract an hour when reading the public timetables = because=20 the railroads always operated on Standard Time and did not (re)pubish=20 the  public timetables in Daylight Savings Time.  I assume = this was=20 to save on  printing costs and paper.  So if the timetable = said the=20 train would leave at 7 AM and you showed up at 7 AM, you were an hour = early=20 for your train!
 
WDV
 
-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of=20 RickTipton@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:19=20 PM
To: PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com; PRR@egroups.com;=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard=20 Time"

In a message dated 3/19/03 5:44:16 AM Eastern = Standard=20 Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:
 
Message: 5
   Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 = 21:09:31=20 -0600
   From: Frederick Ripley = <fjr@mchsi.com>
Subject:=20 Daylight time in 1960's

Hi All,

I am modeling = Crestline-Ft.=20 Wayne in the mid-60's, and have been studying
Public and Employee=20 timetables.  One thing that is not completely clear=20 is
standard/daylight time.  After 1966 in PTT, there is a note = about=20 "Standard
Time Act of 1966", making daylight savings time standard = except=20 for states
that have a law exempting themselves (I assume IN stayed = on=20 Standard time
back then, as they do now).  Despite this note, = the=20 summer PTT's list
"standard time", but I take it this means the = standard=20 time for the timezone
at that time of year, meaning daylight = savings. =20 Before 1966, there is a
note about "prevailing local time".  = As you=20 can tell, there is room for
confusion.

The ETT's make no = mention of=20 the time act that I can find, but list several
trains as running an = hour=20 ahead during daylight savings time.  So presumably
all the = other=20 schedules are listed in standard time even during the=20 summer
timetables.

Can anyone give some definitive answers = to the=20 above?
 
Thanks, Fred = R
------=_NextPart_000_0099_01C2EEF1.93AD6AA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:07:39 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Ed-3 From: Frederick Ripley That is quite of collection of schedules! ED-3 must have been a real "clean-up" train. I wonder if the traffic was generally lower priority, or if the relatively short haul of the business (for instance, a car moving from somewhere in central PA to Akron) meant that these workhorse trains handled all of it? Fred R. (from Al Buchan) the 1954 Conway block was made up of cars destined for Canton, Crestline, Akron, Mingo Jct., Erie, Youngstown, Niles, Mansfield and Scully and most points in between. These cars were then relayed to these terminals by at least eight different trains - ED-37 Conway - Canton and Crestline. CE-5 Conway - Akron CP-5 Conway - Mingo Jct. PYC-1 Conway - Canton EP-1 Conway - Erie PY-1 Conway - Youngstown and Niles PF-9 Conway - Mansfield and Crestline ED-54 Conway - Scully ED was an interesting symbol as it stood for Enola-Detroit and well as Eastern Division, i.e., trains operating in the Eastern Division of the PFW&C. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] MofW car Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:02:59 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C2EF02.8FF3FC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can anyone out there help me please? Does anyone have any data on a PRR = M of W Car Number 499303, Class 23 Car as to when it was built etc? It is Wood Sheathed and Braced with one single Side Door each side. Any data would be deeply appreciated. leeprrswitchkey@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C2EF02.8FF3FC60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can anyone out there help me please? Does anyone have any data on a = PRR M=20 of W Car Number 499303, Class 23 Car as to when it was built etc?
 
It is Wood Sheathed and Braced with one single Side Door each = side.
 
Any data would be deeply appreciated.
 
 
leeprrswitchkey@msn.com
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C2EF02.8FF3FC60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:18:02 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] MofW car This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_fmn9cjDjN799Sg/sRTqCvw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Edmund, et al., Here's a piece that I wrote (w/Bob Johnson's assistance) for the Northern Ohio Rail Museum and their class X23, PRR 499369. Al The class X23 box car was adopted by the Pennsylvania Railroad as a standard boxcar in 1912. It was their first 40-foot standard box car (nominal length), and was also their first built with a steel underframe, steel body framing and wood sheathing. Technically it was known as a composite single-sheathed house car. It was also the first PRR box car to be built using a combined alpha-numeric designation as all previous PRR box car classes had been identified using only alphabetical characters (XA through XL). The class X23, as built, had a light weight of about 48,000-pounds, a nominal capacity of 100,000 pounds and a cubic capacity of 2,682-cubic feet. The first car (PRR 40001) was built by the railroad's Altoona Car Shops and was placed in service during November 1912. Between November 1912, and December 1915, when the last car was completed, 6,911 class X23 box cars had been built by five different organizations. The railroad had built 1,011 cars at its Altoona Car Shops, the Pressed Steel Car Company had built 3,000 cars at its McKees Rocks plant, the Western Steel Car & Foundry Company had built 1,700 at its Hegewisch plant, the American Car & Foundry Company had built 600 at its Berwick plant and the Standard Steel Car Company had built 600 cars at its Butler plant. The basic configuration of the X23 boxcar was also the basis for the class R7 refrigerator car, of which the PRR had 3,304, the class K7 stockcar of which the PRR had 25, and the class X24 automobile car, of which the PRR had 2,000. In 1943, during World War II, the PRR was experiencing a shortage of cabin cars (cabin car is a PRR term for caboose ) so 75 class X-23 box cars were converted to cabin cars and designated as class NX23. As the class X23's began to fall out of favor for revenue uses because of age, having been replaced by more modern all steel cars with greater load carrying capacities, they began being removed from revenue service. Many of these now out of service cars were transferred to work equipment service. When the shortage of cabin cars was relieved, also by the delivery of newer cars, many class NX23 cabins were also reassigned to work equipment service over a period of time. Interestingly, two class NX23 cabins actually remained on the freight car roster into the Penn Central era. Most of the class X23 box cars converted to work equipment service were designated as "Tool and Supply", "Tool and Material" or "Supply" cars. The PRR 499369 was built on September 19, 1913, by the Western Steel Car & Foundry Co. for the Cleveland & Pittsburgh Railroad, a PRR 999 year lessee, and originally numbered PRR 511069. It, along with all other C&P equipment, was sold to the PRR on February 28, 1942, and continued in revenue service with the same number. It was transferred to work equipment ca. July 1944, renumbered to PRR 499369 and used as a supply car. It was still on the work equipment roster in 1969 during the Penn Central era. However, no record of its retirement from work equipment status has been found. The conversion from revenue to work equipment service included the installation of end doors and four rectangular windows on each side of the car. This was the most typical configuration. However, the class NX23 cabins that were converted to work equipment retained the porthole style windows. These tool, material and supply cars were a general-purpose car designed to be used for a variety of maintenance related tasks. Many of these cars lasted well into the 1960s and 1970s in their work equipment status. --Boundary_(ID_fmn9cjDjN799Sg/sRTqCvw) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message
Edmund, et al.,
 
Here's a piece that I wrote (w/Bob Johnson's assistance) for the Northern Ohio Rail Museum and their class X23, PRR 499369. 
 
Al
 
 
    The class X23 box car was adopted by the Pennsylvania Railroad as a standard boxcar in 1912. It was their first 40-foot standard box car (nominal length), and was also their first built with a steel underframe, steel body framing and wood sheathing. Technically it was known as a composite single-sheathed house car. It was also the first PRR box car to be built using a combined alpha-numeric designation as all previous PRR box car classes had been identified using only alphabetical characters (XA through XL). The class X23, as built, had a light weight of about 48,000-pounds, a nominal capacity of 100,000 pounds and a cubic capacity of 2,682-cubic feet. The first car (PRR 40001) was built by the railroad’s Altoona Car Shops and was placed in service during November 1912. Between November 1912, and December 1915, when the last car was completed, 6,911 class X23 box cars had been built by five different organizations. The railroad had built 1,011 cars at its Altoona Car Shops, the Pressed Steel Car Company had built 3,000 cars at its McKees Rocks plant, the Western Steel Car & Foundry Company had built 1,700 at its Hegewisch plant, the American Car & Foundry Company had built 600 at its Berwick plant and the Standard Steel Car Company had built 600 cars at its Butler plant.

    The basic configuration of the X23 boxcar was also the basis for the class R7 refrigerator car, of which the PRR had 3,304, the class K7 stockcar of which the PRR had 25, and the class X24 automobile car, of which the PRR had 2,000.

     In 1943,  during World War II, the PRR was experiencing a shortage of cabin cars (cabin car is a PRR term for caboose ) so 75 class X-23 box cars were converted to cabin cars and designated as class NX23.

     As the class X23’s began to fall out of favor for revenue uses because of age, having been replaced by more modern all steel cars with greater load carrying capacities, they began being removed from revenue service. Many of these now out of service cars were transferred to work equipment service. When the shortage of cabin cars was relieved, also by the delivery of newer cars, many class NX23 cabins were also reassigned to work equipment service over a period of time. Interestingly, two class NX23 cabins actually remained on the freight car roster into the Penn Central era.

     Most of the class X23 box cars converted to work equipment service were designated as “Tool and Supply”, “Tool and Material” or “Supply” cars. The PRR 499369 was built on September 19, 1913, by the Western Steel Car & Foundry Co. for the Cleveland & Pittsburgh Railroad, a PRR 999 year lessee, and originally numbered PRR 511069. It, along with all other C&P equipment, was sold to the PRR on February 28, 1942, and continued in revenue service with the same number.  It was transferred to work equipment ca. July 1944, renumbered to PRR 499369 and used as a supply car. It was still on the work equipment roster in 1969 during the Penn Central era. However, no record of its retirement from work equipment status has been found.

     The conversion from revenue to work equipment service included the installation of end doors and four rectangular windows on each side of the car. This was the most typical configuration. However, the class NX23 cabins that were converted to work equipment retained the porthole style windows. These tool, material and supply cars were a general-purpose car designed to be used for a variety of maintenance related tasks. Many of these cars lasted well into the 1960s and 1970s in their work equipment status.

 

 
 
--Boundary_(ID_fmn9cjDjN799Sg/sRTqCvw)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:03:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard Time" --part1_b8.3c6e3578.2babb0c3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/2003 2:57:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > missed the previous discussion in PRR-Talk or elsewhere regarding DST. The > "Standard Time Act of 1966". And now you are saying in 1940? > > I was born in 1938, and do not remember any of that - I was too young. The > 50's were high school and college, and I didn't really pay attention to > when the actual change took place. It's obvious that it was over a period > of time - but from 1940 to 1966? > I used to go down to the little B&O depot in my home town in Ohio and hang out when I was in junior high school -- about 1960. (My apologies -- the Pennsy depot was too far away to get to on my bike.) They stayed on standard time year around, and were at odds with the rest of the town during the daylight savings part of the year. When I asked the elderly agent about it (he had been at the depot over 40 years then), he scoffed and said the railroad paid no attention to such foolish notions. Lee Rainey --part1_b8.3c6e3578.2babb0c3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/20/2003 2:57:01 PM Eastern Standa= rd Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes:


missed the previous discussion in PRR-Talk or elsewhere re= garding DST.  The "Standard Time Act of 1966".  And now you are sa= ying in 1940?

I was born in 1938, and do n= ot remember any of that - I was too young.  The 50's were high school a= nd college, and I didn't really pay attention to when the actual change took= place.  It's obvious that it was over a period of time - but from 1940= to 1966?


I used to go down to the little B&O depot in my home town in Ohio and ha= ng out when I was in junior high school -- about 1960. (My apologies -- the=20= Pennsy depot was too far away to get to on my bike.) They stayed on standard= time year around, and were at odds with the rest of the town during the day= light savings part of the year. When I asked the elderly agent about it (he=20= had been at the depot over 40 years then), he scoffed and said the railroad=20= paid no attention to such foolish notions.

Lee Rainey
 --part1_b8.3c6e3578.2babb0c3_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weinland" Subject: Re: [PRR] Train Movements Thru Altoona Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:18:19 -0600 Al and Bill, thanks for the info. I am modeling the Altoona freight yard and am trying to faithfully depict operations. I'm guessing if engine's weren't exchanged that cars to be set out were placed at the rear of the train? If a car that required repair was spotted by the men in the pit, was the car moved to the car repair yard or fixed right there on the train? And where is this pit? At the hump? Let me see if I understand the train movement through the yard: 1) The train arrives in the Receiving Yard. 2) The cabin is pulled. 3) Any cars to be set out are pulled and placed on a Receiving Track. 4) The train moves over (or around?) the hump, past the Classification Yard, to the Departure Yard. 5) Cars to be picked up are pulled from a Departure Yard track and placed on the train. 6) A new cabin is placed on the train. 7) Train departs. Thanks again for the help, Ron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] Al Buchan Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 20:30:17 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C2EF1F.84F26D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you very much for the information. E.L. BURBAGE BMCM USCG-Ret. leeprrswitchkey@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C2EF1F.84F26D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you very much for the information.
 
 
E.L. BURBAGE
BMCM USCG-Ret.
 
 
leeprrswitchkey@msn.com
------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C2EF1F.84F26D20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:32:05 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: RE: [PRR] Railroads and "Standard Time" --- Bill Volkmer wrote: > I was born in 1936 As was I. > and was just beginning to track the railroads in > 1947-48. Living 50' from The Broadway in Latrobe, I started a bit earlier. > There was an entire issue of the NRHS Bulletin in the late 1980s or > early 1990s devoted to how the railroads pushed for a standard time > in > the 1880s. Prior to about 1883 every county in America had its own > version of time and often they were 30 minutes apart from one > another. > It was the railroads that brought sanity over chaos just because of > a > few botched meets. I read an article somewhere relating to timekeeping in the 1880's. As I recall, some cities adopted standard time, calling it "railroad time" well before the ICC decreed that interstate commerce would be conducted using Standard Time. > From: Bill Volkmer > > I seem to remember as a kid growing up in the 1940s along the New > York > Central and New Haven Railroads, during the summer when Daylight > Savings > Time was in effect, one had to subtract an hour when reading the > public > timetables because the railroads always operated on Standard Time > and > did not (re)pubish the public timetables in Daylight Savings Time. The irony is that they >did< publish new public timetables because a lot of trains had to be rescheduled. Consider: PRR had a raft of commuter trains running into Pittsburgh in the morning, back out in the evening. People riding those trains worked in offices and factories which changed to Daylight Time (or War Time as it was known during WW2). When the summer came, their work schedule moved an hour earlier (relative to the sun) and so the train schedules had to move the same way. Yes, the railroad insisted on staying with Standard time for their documents, perhaps so as to not have to reset and possibly mess up their clocks, but what had been the 7:15 to Pittsburgh became the 6:15, because that's when the passengers were there wanting transportation. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 10:50:22 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Cresson / Irvona Field Trip From: Jerry Britton Weather seems like it is going to cooperate, so my trip to Altoona, Cresson, and points beyond is on. I'll travel to Altoona early in the morning, arriving around 9:15 at the Station Mall. Once my son has had his fill there, we'll go to Horseshoe Curve, where we'll only stay if it looks like enough trees have been cut to make a difference. By late morning, it's off to Cresson. We'll railfan along the main at Cresson, and I plan to shoot photos of the first mile or so of the Cresson Secondary for modeling purposes. Also plan to shot the scrapyard that still runs from the 1950's (actually 1900's). But the meat of the day may just be a road trip up the entire length of the Irvona Branch (24 miles). For most of its run it is right alongside Route 53. And with leaves not on the trees yet, it will help with visibility without tresspassing. With digital camera in hand and storage for about 100 pics, I plan to shoot as many locations as I can along this stretch. Since sources seem to be scant on coal operations on the branches, I want to preserve as many pieces as I can for others benefit. Does anyone have any tips or specific things that I should look for? I'll be armed with a printout of the CT1000C from 1945, listing all the customers along the branch. I'll also have a track chart. On a site by site basis, if there's something left, we should be able to find it. I'm also somewhat intrigued by the interchange with the NYC at Coalport on the branch. One lister has a 1911 reference to NYC trackage rights over the Irvona Branch from Coalport to Ashville. I'll try to find the exact interchange location. All for now...report and photos on Monday! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ed Price" Subject: [PRR] Need input down south Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 19:16:56 -0500 Greetings all, I'm in the beginning stages of building a 20x36 ho scale layout modeling the erie and ashtabula area. Being in North Carolina I can't quite look out the window for references on terrain, landscape, structure design, yards, etc, so any input and/or direction would be greatly appreciated. Ed --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Cape Lookout Mail Server] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: [PRR] More Broadway Limited Announcements Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:39:05 -0600 The Merchandise Announce list may be more appropriate for this, but since Broadway Limited has announced so many new items I want to hear more of Norm's conspiracy theories! Anyway, browsing Walther's web site shows: PRR J1a SP Cab Forward NW2 Phase V SW7 Phase I & II N&W H2a Hoppers E7B The switchers with sound will be neat. I guess they are doing the H2a hoppers so their Class A units will have something to pull. Andy Cich ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] More Broadway Limited Announcements Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:38:29 -0700 Nah...I'm sure it just that Mike Brock has somebody's soul in a jar on his mantel! ;-) On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:39:05 -0600 "Andy Cich" wrote: > I guess they are > doing the H2a > hoppers so their Class A units will have something to > pull. > > > > Andy Cich > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Les Zody" Subject: [PRR] PRR modeling files Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 17:40:10 -0800 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2EFD0.EB5816D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" How do I get to the 'PRR Modeling Files' ? ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2EFD0.EB5816D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
How do I get t= o the 'PRR Modeling Files' ?

------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2EFD0.EB5816D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 21:05:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] More Broadway Limited Announcements Who cares about the N&W Hoppers. The key item listed there is the J1. I guess they listened to all the requests? Good choice. I hope they have on hand and duplicate the Key Model........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr6100@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 21:15:53 EST Subject: [PRR] (no subject) --part1_17b.17983eac.2bad2159_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What about a smaller pennsy engine, something that will go around smaller curves? --part1_17b.17983eac.2bad2159_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What about a smaller pennsy= engine, something that will go around smaller curves? --part1_17b.17983eac.2bad2159_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: RE: [PRR] More Broadway Limited Announcements Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 21:38:43 -0500 > PRR J1a..................cool. Not a big surprise as far as choices go. I wonder when we will see samples of the upcoming M1a/b. Hopefully soon, it is due out early summer. Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] More Broadway Limited Announcements Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 03:16:42 +0000 I think I'll just stand on the sidelines at this point. Their stuff is way over my budget constraints. NB > The Merchandise Announce list may be more appropriate for this, but since > Broadway Limited has announced so many new items I want to hear more of > Norm's conspiracy theories! > > Anyway, browsing Walther's web site shows: > > PRR J1a > SP Cab Forward > NW2 Phase V > SW7 Phase I & II > N&W H2a Hoppers > E7B > > > The switchers with sound will be neat. I guess they are doing the H2a > hoppers so their Class A units will have something to pull. > > > > Andy Cich > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 22:32:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] East Coast Hobby Show,Phila.-Ft. Washington List......... I plan to attend this show tomorrow. Hopefully I'll see some new PRR toys. I want to see BLI's new GG1 up close. Also want to see the new ore jennies. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 06:20:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR modeling files From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3131158802_44172051 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 3/21/03 8:40 PM, "Les Zody" wrote: > How do I get to the 'PRR Modeling Files' ? > > Could you be more specific? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3131158802_44172051 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] PRR modeling files On 3/21/03 8:40 PM, "Les Zody" <zodyfamil= y@msn.com> wrote:

How do I get to the 'PRR Modeling F= iles' ?



Could you be more specific?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com  &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are
providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit
our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------
 --B_3131158802_44172051-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dan Hammond - T2000" Subject: [PRR] PRR Passenger Cars in Canada/ Metroliner in Toronto Union Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 07:28:21 -0500 Along with Bombardier's new JetTrain locomotive at the Toronto un-veiling of the JetTrain was VIA F40 6429 painted for Telus and (x?) Amtrak 9652 a cab control car that was built as a PRR Metroliner. http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1035779552904 I had asked the question: "Since Toronto has seen overnight sleepers from Philly and New York City, have cars built for the Pennsylvania Railroad graced the trainshed of Toronto Union Station?" After the visit of the new JetTrain locomotive, along with an x-PRR/Penn Central/Amtrak Metroliner car, to Toronto Union Station, we've had a thread on a couple of Canadian passenger rail related lists a discussion of PRR and x-PRR passenger cars in Canada. Tom Box, posted, using the Canadian Trackside Guide as his reference, to Canadian-Passenger-Rail@yahoogroups.com that "VIA 4008 was originally PRR 4059, VIA 4122 was orginally PRR 4063. I've seen both of these cars at Union Station. Although the ex-U.S. HEP1 (Head End Power - series 1) coaches only occasionally stray west of Montreal, they are sometimes used on corridor trains, so it's possible that VIA 8142 (ex-PRR 4055) and VIA 8143 (ex-PRR 4053) have visited Toronto too." Upon referring to books, I have confirmed, that although ordered by the PRR, acceptance of the Metroliners was well into Penn Central. I have seen a United Press International photo from 1968 testing that clearly has the PRR keystone on the blunt nose of Metroliner chair car # 803. Other than the previously mentioned Toronto <-> New York and Philly sleeper services, PRR had little to do with Canadian passenger rail, in Robert J. Wayner's "Car Names, Numbers and Consists" it indicates that in September 1970, Penn Central renamed the following 10 roomette, 6 Bedroom sleeping cars (Note the British/Canadian spelling of 'Harbour'): PRR Scioto Rapids 8451 -> PC Toronto Islands 4334 PRR Sturgeon Rapids 8452 -> PC Toronto Harbour 4335 Both of these cars were delivered by the Budd Company in August 1949. Plan 9503 Lot 9662-033. It would be my 'educated guess' that such cars had the Budd corrugated roofs, but like Northern Pacific and Great Northern orders from Budd, the stainless steel below the windows was smooth rather than fluted, and that these cars originally wore Tucson Red paint. Anyone on the list have any further knowledge of these cars? e.g. Paint in the Penn Central era? Did they ever make it to Canada? Make it to Toronto as Toronto Islands or Toronto Harbour? Disposition of these cars? History of PRR 4053, 4055, 4059 and 4063? Daniel S. Hammond Vice President, TRANSPORT 2000 ONTARIO P.O. Box # 6418 STN. "A" Toronto, Ontario M5W 1X3 Canada http://www.transport2000.ca mailto:t2000@hammond-vowels.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 09:07:25 -0500 From: davep Subject: [PRR] Shovel Standard? (Cross posted....) Did the PRR (or other?) RRs have a standard spec for the fireman's scoop? I KNOW from (old) advertising that specialized 'shovels' were made for such duty. Anyone heard of formal tests for best scoop? -- best dwp ...the net of a million lies... Vernor Vinge There are Many Web Sites which Say Many Things. -me ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] More Broadway Limited Announcements Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 10:16:58 -0500 Thanks Andy for the heads up. I am pleased in seeing the upcoming models that BLI has announced. However, one needs to ask, when will these eventually be released? 2008?? Also, how do these effect the schedule of the T-1's and the M-1's? Will these be pushed back to make room for them (like what they did for the GG-1). Don't get me wrong. I am very satisfied in what BLI has produced in the NYC Hudson. I am also very happy that they are making these ambitious announcements. I just hope that they are very determined in making good on these products. If they are not, then we may not see the M-1, T-1 or J-1 in a long time since other manufacturers will shy away from them since they are assuming that BLI will make good on their promises. God Bless America and our Troops! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Cich" To: "Prr-talk" Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:39 PM Subject: [PRR] More Broadway Limited Announcements > The Merchandise Announce list may be more appropriate for this, but since > Broadway Limited has announced so many new items I want to hear more of > Norm's conspiracy theories! > > Anyway, browsing Walther's web site shows: > > PRR J1a > SP Cab Forward > NW2 Phase V > SW7 Phase I & II > N&W H2a Hoppers > E7B > > > The switchers with sound will be neat. I guess they are doing the H2a > hoppers so their Class A units will have something to pull. > > > > Andy Cich > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: Re: [PRR] More Broadway Limited Announcements Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 10:57:46 -0500 > Also, how do these effect the schedule of the T-1's and the M-1's? Will > these be pushed back to make room for them (like what they did for the > GG-1). I doubt the M1a/b or the T1 will get pushed aside for these other engines. I don't think the T1 or the M1a/b got pushed aside for the GG1. I think that had more to do with the delays in the Hudson. Remember the Hudson was their first engine. I think they were surprised at how long it took them to get the engine out. The upside is that their first engine is a success by all accounts. If you look at the Class A, it appears they are taking the time to do the engine correctly. They have posted three different samples and made many changes in the model to make it accurate. Last email I got from BLI stated that it should be in customers hands by late April, and the GG1 appears to be on the same track. Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 11:53:24 -0500 From: Rail Classics Subject: [PRR] Rail Classics N-8 painted samples Hello all: We have posted painted samples of our N-8 project on our web site www.railclassics.com take a look and E-Mail us your input. The production models are one month away, we know it's been a long time coming; however they are worth the wait. Thank you for your support, EDDY at RAIL CLASSICS www.railclassics.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 08:53:37 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] bagage tractors --0-314966117-1048352017=:14289 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, which color were PRR bagage tractors, bagage wagons and forklifts painted? Thx, Geoffrey --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! --0-314966117-1048352017=:14289 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi, which color were PRR bagage tractors, bagage wagons and forklifts painted?

Thx, Geoffrey

 


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! --0-314966117-1048352017=:14289-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 08:58:20 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Baldwin AS-616 --0-298473992-1048352300=:78997 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I haven't found any info about Baldwin AS-616 units. Who can tell me more? Thx, Geoffrey --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! --0-298473992-1048352300=:78997 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi, I haven't found any info about Baldwin AS-616 units.

Who can tell me more?

Thx, Geoffrey 


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! --0-298473992-1048352300=:78997-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: More Broadway Limited Announcements From: "Robert Poggio" Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 12:05:53 -0500 (EST) Fellow listers, I just want to know if the N&W hoppers will have sound. :-P Maybe BLI will come out with an H8/9/10 when all is said and done. -Bob Poggio Virginia Beach (where I have flown over the coal train/ship loading complexes in both Norfolk and Newport News, and boy are they huge) _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: Re: [PRR] Shovel Standard? Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 14:41:57 -0500 I'm sure there was a standard for fireman's scoops. The MOW plans have standard plans for many different types of tools including one for standard shovels & scoops (with 7 different types of shovels & scoops.) I don't know if one of the scoops shown is the same as firemen used though... These two and tons of other MOW plans are on my web site at http://prr.railfan.net/standards The two shovel plans are at: http://prr.railfan.net/standards/standards.cgi?plan=59850-A&type=TOOL http://prr.railfan.net/standards/standards.cgi?plan=61780-C&type=TOOL Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "davep" To: ; Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:07 AM Subject: [PRR] Shovel Standard? > (Cross posted....) > > Did the PRR (or other?) RRs have a standard spec for > the fireman's scoop? > > I KNOW from (old) advertising that specialized 'shovels' > were made for such duty. > > Anyone heard of formal tests for best scoop? > > -- > best > dwp > > ...the net of a million lies... > Vernor Vinge > There are Many Web Sites which Say Many Things. > -me > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] East Coast Show and BLI Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 18:07:32 -0500

This was posted on a steam engine list that I am on. Hopefully someone will have a first hand account. I would love to see pictures of what they had on hand. I would imagine that they will be posted on the BLI's web site soon.
>     Looks like BWL is becoming the place for steam.  The information below
> from a site.  The is a diesel and electric thrown in but that's ok.  The
> site also said work is starting on a SP cab forward.
>
> "NYC HUDSON first release is sold out. Very limited qty with block
lettering
> available
> N&W CLASS A 2-6-6-4 we can accept reservations through March 30,2003 with
> guaranteed delivery. After that date, orders subject to inventory
available.
> Late April delivery expected.
> PRR GG1 the first three (green unltrd, red & green 5 stripe gold,
clarendon
> lettering) are expected in May/June. We can accept orders for guaranteed
> delivery through 4/29/03 Subject to avail inventory thereafter.
> EMD E7A the first 3 roads NYC, GN, CB&Q (and B units) are expected July
> 2003. No cutoff date set yet
> PRR M1a& M1b tooling completed, sam
Eric Lauterbach
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: RE: [PRR] East Coast Show and BLI Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 18:32:53 -0500
Sorry, I didn't get the full message posted. Here it is:
>     Looks like BWL is becoming the place for steam.  The information below
> from a site.  The is a diesel and electric thrown in but that's ok.  The
> site also said work is starting on a SP cab forward.
>
> "NYC HUDSON first release is sold out. Very limited qty with block
lettering
> available
> N&W CLASS A 2-6-6-4 we can accept reservations through March 30,2003 with
> guaranteed delivery. After that date, orders subject to inventory
available.
> Late April delivery expected.
> PRR GG1 the first three (green unltrd, red & green 5 stripe gold,
clarendon
> lettering) are expected in May/June. We can accept orders for guaranteed
> delivery through 4/29/03 Subject to avail inventory thereafter.
> EMD E7A the first 3 roads NYC, GN, CB&Q (and B units) are expected July
> 2003. No cutoff date set yet
> PRR M ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 19:21:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] East Coast Hobby Show I got to see BLI"s GG1. Both the Tuscan and Brunswick Green Gs. The model looked pretty good but I didn't like the intake grilles. Just my opinion. They also had some early casting of the M1. So it looks like BLI is making an effort to get the M1 out by the summer. Also got to see Stewart Hobbies new PRR G39 ore jennies. These cars looked great! Four packs of the cars are $63.00. Singles are $15.98. And you can't buy just one! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 20:34:54 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 1923 CT1000 Lookup, Please! From: Jerry Britton Anyone out there have a 1923 edition of the CT1000 or the CT1000C? If you would be so kind as to locate the Cresson Branch and do a lookup for me I would appreciate it. I think the Cresson Branch was always considered in the Pittsburgh Division, but I'm not 100% sure on that. What I need is a listing of all the location names and their mileages from the "Y" junction with the main line at Cresson. But I only need this list for the first mile or so of the branch. That should only be a couple of entries. I need to compare it with the 1945 CT1000C which I have a copy of. Some of the names have changed and I need to cross-reference them with an earlier edition and also compare with a valuation map of Cresson which I just borrowed. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] Baldwin AS-616 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 20:57:49 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2F0B5.B2BF6630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The AS-616 is powered by a model 608A turbocharged 1600hp engine. It was the replacement for the DRS-6-6-1500, using the same Westinghouse 471 main generator and Westinghouse model 370 traction motors. Baldwin built a total of 222. They built 11 new for the PRR Class BRS-16m: 8111 & 8112 8966 - 8969 8972 - 8974 Class BRS-16ms (steam generator equipped) 8970 & 8971 P&WV #40 was leased by the PRR for 5 years before they bought it - PRR number 8114 classed BRS-16m Three books for research would be: 1. "Diesels from Eddystone: The story of Baldwin Diesel Locomotives" by Gary W. Dolzall and Stephen F. Dolzall 2. "Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 2 - Baldwin Switchers and Road Switchers" by "John D. Hahn, Jr. 3. "Pennsy Diesels 1924 - 1968 A-6 to EF-36" by Kenneth L. Douglas and Peter C. Weighlin Do I have to list "Pennsy Power II" and "Pennsy Power III" by Alvin F Staufer? (always a good place to start) Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Geoffrey Van Dooren Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:58 AM To: PRR talk list Subject: [PRR] Baldwin AS-616 Hi, I haven't found any info about Baldwin AS-616 units. Who can tell me more? Thx, Geoffrey _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop ! ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2F0B5.B2BF6630 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Th= e AS-616 is powered by a model 608A turbocharged 1600hp = engine.

It= was the replacement for the DRS-6-6-1500, using the same Westinghouse 471 main generator and Westinghouse model 370 traction = motors.

Ba= ldwin built a total of 222.

Th= ey built 11 new for the PRR

Cl= ass BRS-16m:

81= 11 & 8112

89= 66 – 8969

89= 72 – 8974

Cl= ass BRS-16ms (steam generator equipped)

89= 70 & 8971

 

P&= amp;WV #40 was leased by the PRR for 5 years before they bought it – PRR = number 8114 classed BRS-16m

 

Th= ree books for research would be:

1.= “Diesels from Eddystone: The story of Baldwin Diesel = Locomotives”

by= Gary W. Dolzall and Stephen F. Dolzall

 

2.= “Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 2 = – Baldwin Switchers and Road Switchers”

by= “John D. Hahn, Jr.

 

3.= “Pennsy Diesels 1924 – 1968 A-6 to = EF-36”

by= Kenneth L. Douglas and Peter C. Weighlin

 

Do= I have to list “Pennsy Power II” and “Pennsy Power III” = by Alvin F Staufer?

(a= lways a good place to start)

 

Cos

=

Wayne S. = Betty

Cos Communications, Inc.

=

Small = business IT services.

=

 

Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road

=

NMRA, = MER, Susquehanna Div, 11

=

NHRS, = Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061

=

http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm

at the west end of the PRR electrified = zone

=

<= span class=3DEmailStyle18> 

-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf = Of Geoffrey Van Dooren
Sent: Saturday, March 22, = 2003 11:58 AM
To: PRR talk list
Subject: [PRR] Baldwin = AS-616

 

Hi, I haven't found any info = about Baldwin AS-616 units.

Who can tell me = more?<= /p>

Thx, = Geoffrey <= /p>

 <= /p>

Do = you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2F0B5.B2BF6630-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 21:24:31 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] 1923 CT1000 Lookup, Please! --part1_132.1c9ef8cf.2bae74df_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry. No problem. In 1923 the Cresson Br was still the Cresson Division. >From a 1923 CT 1000E "Y" junc with the Pgh Div Cresson Springs Brewery Co. 0.4 Cresson Machine Co. ......... 0.4 Shops..................................0.5 H.A. Tompkins & Co.............0.7 Lucket,Pa. ........................ 2.1 Pat McKinney --part1_132.1c9ef8cf.2bae74df_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry.
        No problem. In 1923 the Cresson B= r was still the Cresson Division. From a 1923 CT 1000E
"Y" junc with the Pgh Div
Cresson Springs Brewery Co. 0.4
Cresson Machine Co. .........  0.4
Shops..................................0.5
H.A. Tompkins & Co.............0.7
Lucket,Pa.  ........................ 2.1

Pat McKinney --part1_132.1c9ef8cf.2bae74df_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 21:45:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] 1923 CT1000 Lookup, Please! Pat, Im also looking at the 1923 CT1000. I'm on pg 208 and my listing is different. Junc. Pittsburgh Div. .............. 0.3 Yard ..............0.4 Penna. Coll. No.9 ..............0.9 Inland Coal ..............1.8 Wildwood Springs (Penna Ice Co. No. 4)..... 3.1 Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:21:10 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] 1923 CT1000 Lookup, Please! --part1_1d3.5b83fae.2bae8226_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave. That is correct as you are looking at the Irvona Br and I listed only the Cresson main line(later the Cresson Br) on page 201. Pat --part1_1d3.5b83fae.2bae8226_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave.
         That is correct as you are=20= looking at the Irvona Br and I listed only the
Cresson main line(later the Cresson Br) on page 201.

Pat --part1_1d3.5b83fae.2bae8226_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 23:08:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] 1923 CT1000 Lookup, Please! Thanks Pat I'm now looking at the right page. Do you know when PRR tore down the roundhouse in Cresson? I'm looking at some photos of it and it doesn't look like an I1 could fit inside the place. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 06:27:15 -0500 From: "Charles Ring, W3NU" Subject: Re: [PRR] Shovel Standard? Rob Schoenberg wrote: > I'm sure there was a standard for fireman's scoops. The MOW plans have > standard > plans for many different types of tools including one for standard shovels & > scoops > (with 7 different types of shovels & scoops.) > I don't know if one of the scoops shown is the same as firemen used > though... > > These two and tons of other MOW plans are on my web site at > http://prr.railfan.net/standards > > The two shovel plans are at: > http://prr.railfan.net/standards/standards.cgi?plan=59850-A&type=TOOL > http://prr.railfan.net/standards/standards.cgi?plan=61780-C&type=TOOL > > Rob > Another tool drawing on that site is for a 80 pound sledge hammer head! Did the PRR have John Henry and Paul Bunyan on its MW gangs? http://PRR.Railfan.net/standards/standards.cgi?plan=55619-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:02:22 EST Subject: [PRR] Cresson Enginehouse --part1_a9.3c2de417.2baf0a5e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave. You are almost right. An I1 ,with short tenders only,would almost fit into a stall with the stops removed so it could pull in as far as possible but the tender stuck out just far enough that the doors could not be closed. RNE Jan-1980 pg 40 states that "The advent of conversion from steam to diesel between 1948 and 1952 led to the razing of the roundhouse." A specific year is not mentioned but my suspicions are 1949 or 1950. Maybe Chris Baer will see this and could give us a good date. Any Help Chris? Please! Pat McKinney --part1_a9.3c2de417.2baf0a5e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave.
         You are almost right. An I1= ,with short tenders only,would almost fit into a stall with the stops remov= ed so it could pull in as far as possible but the tender stuck out just far=20= enough that the doors could not be closed.
   RNE Jan-1980 pg 40 states that "The advent of conversion from s= team to diesel between 1948 and 1952 led to the razing of the roundhouse." A= specific year is not mentioned but my suspicions are 1949 or 1950.
   Maybe Chris Baer will see this and could give us a good date. <= BR>    Any Help Chris? Please!

Pat McKinney   --part1_a9.3c2de417.2baf0a5e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:22:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cresson Enginehouse From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3131252522_49808327 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/23/03 8:02 AM, "PKMac101@aol.com" wrote: > You are almost right. An I1 ,with short tenders only,would almos= t fit > into a stall with the stops removed so it could pull in as far as possibl= e but > the tender stuck out just far enough that the doors could not be closed. > RNE Jan-1980 pg 40 states that "The advent of conversion from steam to > diesel between 1948 and 1952 led to the razing of the roundhouse." A spec= ific > year is not mentioned but my suspicions are 1949 or 1950. > Maybe Chris Baer will see this and could give us a good date. > Any Help Chris? Please! >=20 Pat, I beg to differ. You once lent me a valuation map that had the roundhouse redlined as =B3to be removed=B2 and the new diesel tracks in green a= s =B3to be added=B2. I believe that map was marked =B3correct to 1954=B2. Correct me if I am wrong. Based on that, I was planning on, perhaps, modeling the steam facility with the roundhouse razed, but the turntable still in place. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3131252522_49808327 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] Cresson Enginehouse On 3/23/03 8:02 AM, "PKMac101@aol.com" <P= KMac101@aol.com> wrote:

   &nb= sp;    You are almost right. An I1 ,with short tenders o= nly,would almost fit into a stall with the stops removed so it could pull in= as far as possible but the tender stuck out just far enough that the doors = could not be closed.
   RNE Jan-1980 pg 40 states that "The advent of conver= sion from steam to diesel between 1948 and 1952 led to the razing of the rou= ndhouse." A specific year is not mentioned but my suspicions are 1949 o= r 1950.
   Maybe Chris Baer will see this and could give us a good d= ate.
   Any Help Chris? Please!

Pat, I beg to differ. You once lent me a= valuation map that had the roundhouse redlined as “to be removed̶= 1; and the new diesel tracks in green as “to be added”. I believ= e that map was marked “correct to 1954”. Correct me if I am wron= g.

Based on that, I was planning on, perhaps, modeling the steam facility with= the roundhouse razed, but the turntable still in place.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com  &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are
providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit
our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------
 --B_3131252522_49808327-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:31:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] 1923 CT1000 Lookup, Please! From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3131253104_49843306 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/22/03 9:24 PM, "PKMac101@aol.com" wrote: > No problem. In 1923 the Cresson Br was still the Cresson Division= . > From a 1923 CT 1000E > "Y" junc with the Pgh Div > Cresson Springs Brewery Co. 0.4 > Cresson Machine Co. ......... 0.4 > Shops..................................0.5 > H.A. Tompkins & Co.............0.7 > Lucket,Pa. ........................ 2.1 >=20 >=20 Uggh, more frustration! Typically, the loco facilities are not mentioned. This is the case here as well, and that=B9s fine. Looking at a val map I just borrowed, from Pat, there are two spurs that extend towards the end of the line, outside of the wye, on the south side o= f the branch. From the val map, these =B3appear=B2 to be on PRR property. Yesterday I viewed a delapidated red brick building in this area (west of Arch Street) that may have been part of whatever those spurs went to. Pat thought those were the Calandra brothers previously mentioned as being at .4 miles back the branch (1945 CT1000C) and were scrap dealers. Their business was founded in the early 1900=B9s and continues today (I took a pic of the sign). However, they are further away from the wye than the siding mentioned in the previous paragraph. I identified where the shops were and the Calandra site I found was slightl= y closer to the wye, so the .5 and .4 mile references hold up. Back to the val map, however, it shows a siding where the Calandra business would be. But it is labeled =B3Cresson Foundry & Salvage=B2. Could this be a business name the Calandra=B9s were operating under? The Cresson Springs Brewery is intriguing, but it was definitely gone by my modeling era. In review: 1. Was the Calandra business and the Cresson Foundry & Salvage Co. one and the same? (And apparently the Cresson Machine Co. in the 1923 CT1000)? 2) What were the two spurs on the south side of the branch outside of the wye? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3131253104_49843306 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] 1923 CT1000 Lookup, Please! On 3/22/03 9:24 PM, "PKMac101@aol.com" <P= KMac101@aol.com> wrote:

   &nb= sp;   No problem. In 1923 the Cresson Br was still the Cresso= n Division. From a 1923 CT 1000E
"Y" junc with the Pgh Div
Cresson Springs Brewery Co. 0.4
Cresson Machine Co. .........  0.4
Shops..................................0.5
H.A. Tompkins & Co.............0.7
Lucket,Pa.  ........................ 2.1


Uggh, more frustration!

Typically, the loco facilities are not mentioned. This is the case here as = well, and that’s fine.

Looking at a val map I just borrowed, from Pat, there are two spurs that ex= tend towards the end of the line, outside of the wye, on the south side of t= he branch. From the val map, these “appear” to be on PRR propert= y. Yesterday I viewed a delapidated red brick building in this area (west of= Arch Street) that may have been part of whatever those spurs went to.

Pat thought those were the Calandra brothers previously mentioned as being = at .4 miles back the branch (1945 CT1000C) and were scrap dealers. Their bus= iness was founded in the early 1900’s and continues today (I took a pi= c of the sign). However, they are further away from the wye than the siding = mentioned in the previous paragraph.

I identified where the shops were and the Calandra site I found was slightl= y closer to the wye, so the .5 and .4 mile references hold up.

Back to the val map, however, it shows a siding where the Calandra business= would be. But it is labeled “Cresson Foundry & Salvage”. Co= uld this be a business name the Calandra’s were operating under?

The Cresson Springs Brewery is intriguing, but it was definitely gone by my= modeling era.

In review:

  1. Was the Calandra business and the Cress= on Foundry & Salvage Co. one and the same? (And apparently the Cresson M= achine Co.  in the 1923 CT1000)?

2) What were the two spurs on the south side of the branch outside of the w= ye?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com  &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are
providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit
our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------
 --B_3131253104_49843306-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:33:53 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Fry Milling Company - Cresson From: Jerry Britton The CT1000C for 1945 shows "Fry Milling Co." at .4 miles down the Irvona Branch from Cresson. I think I found that site yesterday...several acres of totally flat bare land now. Being in the mountain locale, I suspect this was a LUMBER mill (vs. a GRAIN mill). Can anyone confirm that there was a lumber mill in this area? Now the really doubtful question: Any photos? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:43:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Cresson Enginehouse --part1_102.29a7a1be.2baf1408_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry. If you look at the block for the revisions for years 1943 thru 1955 you should see that part of the word "revis" was already there. All the draftsman had to do was make it "No Revision" or "Revised" for that year. The last revision date was 1948. 1949 thru 1951 has no revision. After that it was not corrected. Pat --part1_102.29a7a1be.2baf1408_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry.
          If you look at the bl= ock for the revisions for years 1943 thru 1955 you should see that part of t= he word "revis" was already there. All the draftsman had to do was make it "= No Revision" or "Revised" for that year. The last revision date was 1948. 1949 thru 1951 has no revision. After that it was not corrected.

Pat --part1_102.29a7a1be.2baf1408_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:17:54 EST Subject: Re:(2a) [PRR] Cresson Enginehouse --part1_b0.36748114.2baf1c12_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry. One other thing that I should have pointed out. A draftsman could have used any extra valuation sheet he had on hand to make up a useable office val sheet from correted field notes for future use. The "correct to" date could be anything from the previous year corrected sheet( if done so then) to one that was correct as of 10 years earlier. So what I am saying is the draftsman may have taken an extra old sheet that had all the older things on it, and with red lines for abandonments and green lines for new work, fit together what he needed from field notes and have an up to date working sheet but with a real old corrected date. Pat --part1_b0.36748114.2baf1c12_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry.
         One other thing that I shou= ld have pointed out. A draftsman could have used any extra valuation sheet h= e had on hand to make up a useable office val sheet from correted field note= s for future use. The "correct to" date could be anything from the previous=20= year corrected sheet( if done so then) to one that was correct as of 10 year= s earlier.
  So what I am saying is the draftsman may have taken an extra old shee= t that had all the older things on it, and with red lines for abandonments a= nd green lines for new work, fit together what he needed from field notes an= d have an up to date working sheet but with a real old corrected date.

Pat --part1_b0.36748114.2baf1c12_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] Correction: Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:35:25 -0500 I did indeed miss spell a name in my previous post on the Baldwin AS-616 The correct spelling of Peter C. Weiglin is without an "h". or 3. "Pennsy Diesels 1924 - 1968 A-6 to EF-36" by Kenneth L. Douglas and Peter C. Weiglin Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:46:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cresson Enginehouse From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3131272006_50980212 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/23/03 8:43 AM, "PKMac101@aol.com" wrote: > If you look at the block for the revisions for years 1943 thru = 1955 > you should see that part of the word "revis" was already there. All the > draftsman had to do was make it "No Revision" or "Revised" for that year.= The > last revision date was 1948. > 1949 thru 1951 has no revision. After that it was not corrected. >=20 >=20 All, still trying to figure out when steam facility was removed at Cresson and diesel was added. Pat has reopened the subject, perhaps correcting an error in my original thinking. We have a val map that shows the tracks to be removed and those to be added= . The last rev date was 1948 on that map. The next rev date on subsequent val maps is 1957. 1948 sounds too early for me, and 1957 sounds too late. The first diesel helpers were purchased circa 1948 and we know for sure tha= t they were originally serviced on the Gallitzin loop track. This is well documented. But did diesel servicing at Gallitzin remain until 1957? Certainly is possible. There was still steam assigned to the Pittsburgh branches as of 1954. Anyone have collections of Annual Reports from the 1950=B9s? These often contain lists of improvements. Perhaps one mentions the loco facility at Cresson. Remember: The steam facility was for servicing BRANCH motive power, not helpers. When it was converted it was for helpers. I=B9m going to re-read TRAINS April 1957 for clues, as well as THE CENTENNIAL HISTORY. Any help anyone can give would be appreciated. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3131272006_50980212 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] Cresson Enginehouse On 3/23/03 8:43 AM, "PKMac101@aol.com" <P= KMac101@aol.com> wrote:

   &nb= sp;     If you look at the block for the revisions = for years 1943 thru 1955 you should see that part of the word "revis&qu= ot; was already there. All the draftsman had to do was make it "No Revi= sion" or "Revised" for that year. The last revision date was = 1948.
1949 thru 1951 has no revision. After that it was not corrected.


All, still trying to figure out when ste= am facility was removed at Cresson and diesel was added. Pat has reopened th= e subject, perhaps correcting an error in my original thinking.

We have a val map that shows the tracks to be removed and those to be added= . The last rev date was 1948 on that map. The next rev date on subsequent va= l maps is 1957.

1948 sounds too early for me, and 1957 sounds too late.

The first diesel helpers were purchased circa 1948 and we know for sure tha= t they were originally serviced on the Gallitzin loop track. This is well do= cumented.

But did diesel servicing at Gallitzin remain until 1957? Certainly is possi= ble. There was still steam assigned to the Pittsburgh branches as of 1954.
Anyone have collections of Annual Reports from the 1950’s? These ofte= n contain lists of improvements. Perhaps one mentions the loco facility at C= resson.

Remember: The steam facility was for servicing BRANCH motive power, not hel= pers. When it was converted it was for helpers.

I’m going to re-read TRAINS April 1957 for clues, as well as THE CENT= ENNIAL HISTORY.

Any help anyone can give would be appreciated.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com  &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are
providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit
our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------
 --B_3131272006_50980212-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: [PRR] Fw: Fw: Fw: SECURITY ALERT - STOLEN DERAILS Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:29:42 -0600 Hello All --- I am forwarding this because of it's importance. Sorry it's a few days late, but gathering email addresses is a slow process. I apologize for any duplicates. If you know of anyone not on the "To:" list above, please feel free to forward this. Please note: even though this has happened in Texas, doesn't mean it can't happen in your part of the country. Morgan Bilbo -- Ferroequinologist SECURITY ALERT FOR MARCH 20, 2003 @ 8:00 A.M. EST REMAINS AT LEVEL 2 FOR THE RAIL INDUSTRY. WHEN/IF THIS ALERT LEVEL CHANGES YOU WILL BE PROMPTY NOTIFIED. STOLEN DERAILS Since January 01, 2003, nine derails have been stolen in the East Texas area. Seven from the Greenville, Texas area, including three from Hunt Yard (DGNO RR), one from the Rubbermaid Plant (DGNO RR), two from Bonus Crop (DGNO RR), and one from the KCS RR yard. One has been stolen from Dalrock Siding (DGNO RR) near Lake Ray Hubbard and one was stolen from Winnsboro, Texas (KCS RR) during the week of March 10, 2003. All of the stolen derails were the portable hinged type. As you know, a derail is a device used to derail a piece of equipment from the railroad track. It is used to protect main lines sidings, branch lines, and industrial leads by preventing equipment from accidentally rolling onto the main rail route from a secondary track. What makes these thefts a bit alarming is the nature and intended use of this equipment. Theft of this equipment is unusual, since it has little value outside of the rail industry and serves no known purpose other than its intended use. The use of derails is strictly controlled by federal regulations and company policy and when not in the hands of an experienced person could be potentially dangerous. Your crews should be advised of these thefts and be on the look out for them while operating their trains. Suggest that you use this notice as part of your job briefings for all of your crews. Have a Safe Day God Bless America Matt Reilly American Short Line and Regional Railroad Assn. 202-585-3434 Fax 202-628-6430 mreilly@aslrra.org www.aslrra.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:29:42 -0600 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Fw: Fw: Fw: SECURITY ALERT - STOLEN DERAILS Hello All --- I am forwarding this because of it's importance. Sorry it's a few days late, but gathering email addresses is a slow process. I apologize for any duplicates. If you know of anyone not on the "To:" list above, please feel free to forward this. Please note: even though this has happened in Texas, doesn't mean it can't happen in your part of the country. Morgan Bilbo -- Ferroequinologist SECURITY ALERT FOR MARCH 20, 2003 @ 8:00 A.M. EST REMAINS AT LEVEL 2 FOR THE RAIL INDUSTRY. WHEN/IF THIS ALERT LEVEL CHANGES YOU WILL BE PROMPTY NOTIFIED. STOLEN DERAILS Since January 01, 2003, nine derails have been stolen in the East Texas area. Seven from the Greenville, Texas area, including three from Hunt Yard (DGNO RR), one from the Rubbermaid Plant (DGNO RR), two from Bonus Crop (DGNO RR), and one from the KCS RR yard. One has been stolen from Dalrock Siding (DGNO RR) near Lake Ray Hubbard and one was stolen from Winnsboro, Texas (KCS RR) during the week of March 10, 2003. All of the stolen derails were the portable hinged type. As you know, a derail is a device used to derail a piece of equipment from the railroad track. It is used to protect main lines sidings, branch lines, and industrial leads by preventing equipment from accidentally rolling onto the main rail route from a secondary track. What makes these thefts a bit alarming is the nature and intended use of this equipment. Theft of this equipment is unusual, since it has little value outside of the rail industry and serves no known purpose other than its intended use. The use of derails is strictly controlled by federal regulations and company policy and when not in the hands of an experienced person could be potentially dangerous. Your crews should be advised of these thefts and be on the look out for them while operating their trains. Suggest that you use this notice as part of your job briefings for all of your crews. Have a Safe Day God Bless America Matt Reilly American Short Line and Regional Railroad Assn. 202-585-3434 Fax 202-628-6430 mreilly@aslrra.org www.aslrra.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Fantastic X23 photos Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:55:37 -0500 Lists: In case any of y'all haven't looked on the Steam Freightcars site lately, there an absolutely fantastic set of photos taken in 1940 of an X23 boxcar. You could scratchbuild one direct from the photos, they're that good: See: http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/prr538111main.html Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:49:02 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem Anyone have any photos of facilities, locos, industries, or any info (trackplans, whatever) on this branch of the PRR? The branch cut off the mainline slightly west of Latrobe PA and served the mines and coke ovens in the towns mentioned. Thanks in advance. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:49:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem Anyone have any photos of facilities, locos, industries, or any info (trackplans, whatever) on this branch of the PRR? The branch cut off the mainline slightly west of Latrobe PA and served the mines and coke ovens in the towns mentioned. Thanks in advance. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: [PRR] R50b Brake Rigging Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:50:16 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C2F14B.843DD080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone know where I can find a photo or diagram, either online or = published, showing the under floor details of an R50b? Thanks! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C2F14B.843DD080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anyone know where I can find a = photo or=20 diagram, either online or published, showing the under floor details of = an=20 R50b?
 
Thanks!
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C2F14B.843DD080-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: Derrick J Brashear From: Derrick J Brashear Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:16:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Ronald Di Orio wrote: > Anyone have any photos of facilities, locos, > industries, or any info (trackplans, whatever) on this > branch of the PRR? The branch cut off the mainline > slightly west of Latrobe PA and served the mines and > coke ovens in the towns mentioned. Thanks in advance. Alexandria Branch. Some information on the "The Old Miner" http://patheoldminer.rootsweb.com/index.html and the author of that site lives in that area. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:16:07 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Ronald Di Orio wrote: > Anyone have any photos of facilities, locos, > industries, or any info (trackplans, whatever) on this > branch of the PRR? The branch cut off the mainline > slightly west of Latrobe PA and served the mines and > coke ovens in the towns mentioned. Thanks in advance. Alexandria Branch. Some information on the "The Old Miner" http://patheoldminer.rootsweb.com/index.html and the author of that site lives in that area. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:26:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b Brake Rigging From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3131281608_51557758 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/23/03 3:50 PM, "Steve Hoxie" wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find a photo or diagram, either online or > published, showing the under floor details of an R50b? > =20 The Altoona Railroader=B9s Memorial Museum has an R50. If you can get there, = I imagine you can crawl under it! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3131281608_51557758 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] R50b Brake Rigging On 3/23/03 3:50 PM, "Steve Hoxie" <steveh= prr@earthlink.net> wrote:

Does anyone know where= I can find a photo or diagram, either online or published, showing the unde= r floor details of an R50b?

The Altoona Railroader’s Memorial Museum has an R50. If you can get t= here, I imagine you can crawl under it!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com  &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are
providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit
our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------
 --B_3131281608_51557758-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:27:02 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem --- Ronald Di Orio wrote: > Anyone have any photos of facilities, locos, > industries, or any info (trackplans, whatever) on this > branch of the PRR? The branch cut off the mainline > slightly west of Latrobe PA and served the mines and > coke ovens in the towns mentioned. Thanks in advance. > Ron Left the main line at Donohue, actually. No pictures etc. here. If you haven't, look at historical.maptech.com. The Latrobe quad shows the branch(es) circa 1902. There may be something useful at patheoldminer.rootsweb.com. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:28:25 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Annual Report Lookup Please From: Jerry Britton Anyone with annual reports from 1948 through 1958 (except for 1950 and 1954 that I have), I would appreciate if you would page through and find the section where they list "Physical Plant Improvements". Please see if there is any mention of the newly constructed diesel locomotive facility at Cresson, replacing the steam locomotive facility. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 17:12:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Annual Report Lookup Please --part1_ce.35df390f.2baf8b38_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry. Nothing mentioned at all in the 1947 thru the 1959 reports. Pat McKinney --part1_ce.35df390f.2baf8b38_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry.
          Nothing mentioned at=20= all in the 1947 thru the 1959 reports.

Pat McKinney --part1_ce.35df390f.2baf8b38_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 19:36:57 -0500 From: Mark Kerlick Subject: [PRR] Stewart G39 I attended the Eastern RPM meet this past weekend in Pittsburgh. Great event and many thanks to Dick Flock and Larry Kline.. The pre production Stewart G39 ore car was displayed.. I was very curious to see this model up close and make some comparisons to the High Tech Detail car I had seen in Naperville IL. I'll keep in mind that it is pre production. The model is built in a unique way. The main body is metal which is surrounded by a plastic cradle which comprises the frame and exterior posts. The top chord and interior make up the balance of the kit. It appeared to be factory lettered and of good quality printing. Overall hmmm The metal has noticeable scratching and pot marks. This would be enhanced even more during the weathering process. The were no ladders installed but the holes for attaching them are present. The grabs are molded on. Shouldn't have that for a model of the price. The top chord and under frame seemed to me to be very heavy. I did not have my scale rule present, but it reminded me a bit of the older AHM ore cars as far as size. The car bumpers were well done. The kit uses the Bowser (I suspect) crown trucks. In this instance it appears either the trucks are height wise too short or the area under the frame is too large. The coupler cover has a large round head screw to hold it in place.. Again could be done better on a car of that price. In my opinion the car has some drawbacks. I for one will wait for the High Tech Detail car. I wish the Manufacturers would have some informal get together on these niche type models. It is unfortunate that we will have to G39's on in the class of Genesis and one that is more in the RTR mold. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 08:29:25 +0100 From: Burkhard Sanner Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Passenger Cars in Canada/ Metroliner in Toronto Dan Hammond - T2000 scribit: > Along with Bombardier's new JetTrain locomotive at the Toronto un-veiling of > the JetTrain was VIA F40 6429 painted for Telus and (x?) Amtrak 9652 a cab > control car that was built as a PRR Metroliner. In the article you could read: " The 5,000-horsepower turbine engine is housed in a soundproof container, meaning it's quieter than other locomotives. It's also much lighter, making it more fuel efficient." Fuel efficiency and gas turbines? For a system like rail transport, where much of the work is done at partial load, this is a proven concept of failure. The list is long, with numerous one-of-a-kind rail vehicles, and only very limited examples of wider use (the French ETG and RTG railcars, of which Amtrak´s Rohr turboliner was a clone, and of course UP´s turbine fleet). However, also this turbine experiences where quite short-lived. The Pennsy obviously had no intention to add its name to the turbine followers (of course, I know about the S-2; but steam turbines are something quite different to gas turbines, and the S-2 was the most conservative steam turbine design used in the USA, and worldwide only the Swedish TGOJ steam turbines used a similarily simple, non-condensing concept with direct transmission). Or is there any proof existing, that PRR played with the idea of using gas turbine locos instead of further electrification to solve the haulage problems towards the West? Burkhard Sanner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:49:29 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Weekend Road Trip From: Jerry Britton As you know, over the weekend I road tripped to Cresson. I posted numerous photos of Conrail/NS equipment. You can view these at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ If you leave the search criteria empty, it will show you the most recent photos first. I added about 50 photos. There is also a pretty decent photo of the restored PRR N5c in the collection. As to what I found: Back the Cresson Secondary I located a trestle across from where the car shop was. The val map shows a track coming in from each direction. I think this was actually a transfer trestle where one track went directly underneath the one above, allowing a load to be transferred from a damaged car to another. I posted pics, but I could not get close without tresspassing. Back the Irvona Branch I found out the branch only remains part way! Guess I was sleeping if it was ever mentioned online that it was no longer intact. It's basically one long spur going back to a very active mine near Coalport. I found a few remnants of coal tipples, but most were just dirt hills that tracks were once on. The wood was all gone except for two instances. Although I was forced to railfan from Route 53, not the tracks. There probably would be more evidence at track level itself. I continue to learn more about Cresson for my modeling projects, which makes it all worthwhile. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 11:06:43 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Fry Milling Company - Cresson In a message dated 3/23/2003 8:33:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > Being in the mountain locale, I suspect this was a LUMBER mill (vs. a GRAIN > mill). Can anyone confirm that there was a lumber mill in > this area? Jerry, this might also have been a tool milling company with all the mines in the area. You might want to contact the Pennsylvania Bureau of Corporations in the Pa. Dept. of State office and ask them to search the corporate database for information on the company. They can tell you when it wento out of business. Also, PA Corporations are supposed to deposit all corporate records in the State Archives when they cease to exist (note many do not). So there may be records in the archives. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 08:36:45 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Fry Milling Company The state has a web site at: http://www.corps.state.pa.us/corps.htm which allows searches for the names of corporations. In this case, however, all that comes up is that a Fry Milling Company was incorporated in 1919. No address is given. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the idea that it was a feed mill. While there were many coal mines in the area north and northwest of Cresson, there was some agriculture and, indeed, still is. Granted, to a person accustomed to the broad flatlands of the lower Susquehanna valley there might seem to be little scope for farming in the broken land in question, our anscetors were a hardy lot. Cattle can prosper on hillsides, especially if a nearby feed mill supplys a stream of feed. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gary Farmer" Subject: [PRR] NCRR switch keys Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 12:37:56 -0500 Hi list, I have 2 switch keys that I am hoping someone can help with. One is marked NCRW and the other is marked NCRR. I know they are Northern Central RR, but why the difference in markings? Wasn't the NCRR a wholly-owned subsidiery of the PRR? Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 12:44:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] NCRR switch keys From: Jerry Britton On 3/24/03 12:37 PM, Gary Farmer (gary@mssinc.com) wrote: > I have 2 switch keys that I am hoping someone can help with. One is marked > NCRW and the other is marked NCRR. I know they are Northern Central RR, but > why the difference in markings? > > Wasn't the NCRR a wholly-owned subsidiery of the PRR? > The Northern Central was the "Northern Central RAILWAY" not "Northern Central RAILROAD". That probably accounts for the NCRW, unless it is from a totally different railroad elsewhere. The PRR was a stockholder from early on. Gunnarson's book has all the details, but I believe in the late 1800's the NCR wanted the PRR to take over but they did not. They certainly became the majority shareholder. The NCRy continued to have its own annual reports well into the 20th century. I don't think the NCRy was fully absorbed into the PRR until the 1920's. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:19:05 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A useless bit of data From: Materials Handbook An Encyclopedia for Purchasing Agents, Engineers, Executives, and Foremen George S Brady 5th ed 5th impression McGraw-Hill Book Company, New york and London, 1944 Copyright 1929, 1931, 1937, 1940, 1944 "Statuary bronze for cast plaques used in building construction contains 86% copper, 2 tin, 2 lead, 8 zinc, and 2 nickel. The nickel improves fluidity and hardens and strengthens the alloy, and the lead promotes an oxidized finish on exposure. The statuary bronze used by the Pennsylvania Railroad for passenger car trim averages 83.5% of copper, 4 lead, 2 tin, and 10 zinc." (Yeah, I noticed it doesn't add up to 100%, but that's what the man said.) So, if you've been agonizing over the proper formula for the statuary bronze trim pieces on your N-scale PRR coach, now you know, except for that missing 0.5%. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Sanborn Maps of Williamspor PA Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:31:16 -0500 Someone from one of these lists whom I met at the Pennsy Convention has copies of the Sanborn Maps of Williamsport PA WWII vintage and made and sent me copies. They have theirs mounted on several poster boards that fold up accordian style. They unfold to a wall sized mural map - impressive. Last year they brought it to the convention and showed it to me, but we only had a few minutes and never got back together. I believe they were from Baltimore. I would like to have them contact me off list - I have several questions about the maps and your mounting project, and would like to touch base at the convention this year (hopefully you're going). Unfortunately I lost your name to a computer crash and age. TIA Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] Switch Keys Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:59:13 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2F215.EF1D3920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Gary, this is Lee Burbage. The early marking of the Northern = Central key was the initials they first accepted when setting up the = Railroad. The later NC RR was adopted when the Company wanted to = moderize operations. I have switch keys marked the same way yours are and the Bitts (end of = the keu) are the same. One simply is an early Mfg. and the later one a new Mfg. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2F215.EF1D3920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Gary, this is Lee Burbage. The early marking of the Northern = Central=20 key was the initials they first accepted when setting up the Railroad. = The later=20 NC RR was adopted when the Company wanted to moderize operations.
 
I have switch keys marked the same way yours are and the Bitts (end = of the=20 keu) are the same.
 
One simply is an early Mfg. and the later one a new=20 Mfg.
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2F215.EF1D3920-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] Switch Key Markings Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:01:33 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C2F216.422330C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary Farmer, the N C R R was when the PRR took control but operated it = as a separate identy or company under their control.=20 They did the same when they absorbed the old BC&A Ry and renamed it the = Baltimore and Eastern RR but in this case they changed Bitts entirely. Lee Burbage ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C2F216.422330C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gary Farmer, the N C R R was when the PRR took control but operated = it as a=20 separate identy or company under their control.
 
They did the same when they absorbed the old BC&A Ry and = renamed it the=20 Baltimore and Eastern RR but in this case they changed Bitts = entirely.
 
Lee Burbage
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C2F216.422330C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:46:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted From: Jerry Britton With the Society's blessing, I have posted a PDF of the mailing for the upcoming PRRT&HS 2003 Annual Meeting. The program looks pretty good again this year. You can download a copy (1.8 MB) via http://kc.pennsyrr.com/prrths/ . NOTE: This file has the registration form removed!!! The Society received complaints last year from those who are not online, saying that the online registration form provided an "unfair advantage" to those who are online. (I'm going to bite my tongue on that one!) Hope to see many of you there in...five weeks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dan Hammond - T2000" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR <-> Canadian Passenger Rail Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:48:57 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 10:08:22 -0500 To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail@yahoogroups.com From: Tom Box Subject: Re: PRR <-> Canadian Passenger Rail Dan Hammond wrote: > From: Tom Box >> VIA 4008 was originally PRR 4059, VIA 4122 was >> orginally PRR 4063. >> VIA 8142 (ex-PRR 4055) and VIA 8143 (ex-PRR 4053) > > History of PRR 4053, 4055, 4059 and 4063? According to Doug Smith's article on the HEP2 cars in Canadian Rail Passenger Review, Number 1, VIA 4007 (SAL 6224) VIA 4008 (PRR 4059) VIA 4009 (SAL 6216) VIA 4121 (RF&P 851) VIA 4122 (PRR 4063) were purchased in a joint Pennsylvania/Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac/Seaboard Air Line order in 1947 for New York-Florida trains run jointly by the three railways. They had 52 seats as originally built. Doug's article on the HEP1 cars, in Canadian Rail Passenger Yearbook, 1995 Edition, says that VIA 8130 (ACL 224) VIA 8131 (ACL 227) VIA 8135 (ACL 226) VIA 8140 (RF&P 801) VIA 8142 (PRR 4055) VIA 8143 (PRR 4053) VIA 8145 (RF&P 806) VIA 8146 (ACL 222) were built in 1946 for the PRR/RF&P/Atlantic Coast Line New York-Florida trains. Hence all of these cars would have run on the PRR line between New York and Washington. VIA 4110-4115 were originally owned by the Southern Railway, and were likely used on some joint PRR/SR trains. All four PRR cars went to Penn Central, then to Amtrak. They then had various other owners before being bought by VIA in 1990-92. Tom Box or Toronto, ON, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Hammond - T2000" Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 8:43 AM Subject: [T_2000] PRR Passenger Cars in Canada, was, RE: Metroliner in Toronto Union Station? > In September 1970, Penn Central renamed the following 10 roomette, 6 Bedroom sleeping cars >(Note the British/Canadian spelling of 'Harbour'): PRR Scioto Rapids 8451 -> PC Toronto Islands 4334 PRR Sturgeon Rapids 8452 -> PC Toronto Harbour 4335 Have yet to determine if the above cars ever ran in Canada (with either the 'Rapids' or 'Toronto' name). Bennet Levin of PRR-Talk listserv writes From: "Bennett Levin" To: "Dan Hammond - T2000" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Passenger Cars in Canada/ Metroliner in Toronto Union Station? > 4335 Scioto was purchased by Juniata Terminal and donated to the RRMPA. > > I believe the other car was purchased by the CNW and was fire damaged at W. > Allis WI. RRMPA = Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania CNW = Chicago & North Western ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:30:11 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Streamlined steam Did any of the streamlined K-4s assigned to the St. Louis trains run all the way east to Pittsburgh? Thanks. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:30:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Streamlined steam Did any of the streamlined K-4s assigned to the St. Louis trains run all the way east to Pittsburgh? Thanks. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] A useless bit of data Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:58:33 -0500 Gosh Bob, what color Floquil paint matches that??? :-) Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert netzlof" To: Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 1:19 PM Subject: [PRR] A useless bit of data > From: > Materials Handbook > An Encyclopedia for Purchasing Agents, Engineers, Executives, and > Foremen > George S Brady > 5th ed 5th impression > McGraw-Hill Book Company, New york and London, 1944 > Copyright 1929, 1931, 1937, 1940, 1944 > > "Statuary bronze for cast plaques used in building construction > contains 86% copper, 2 tin, 2 lead, 8 zinc, and 2 nickel. The nickel > improves fluidity and hardens and strengthens the alloy, and the lead > promotes an oxidized finish on exposure. The statuary bronze used by > the Pennsylvania Railroad for passenger car trim averages 83.5% of > copper, 4 lead, 2 tin, and 10 zinc." (Yeah, I noticed it doesn't add > up to 100%, but that's what the man said.) > > So, if you've been agonizing over the proper formula for the statuary > bronze trim pieces on your N-scale PRR coach, now you know, except > for that missing 0.5%. > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! > http://platinum.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:23:14 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Jerry Britton wrote: > NOTE: This file has the registration form removed!!! The Society received > complaints last year from those who are not online, saying that the online > registration form provided an "unfair advantage" to those who are online. > (I'm going to bite my tongue on that one!) For those of you who want it back, complain. There are 3 possibilities: 1) more who want it back complain a) it comes back b) favoritism of one groups of whiners over another. 2) less who want it back complain For what it's worth, the "unfair advantage" never worked for me. I have no axe to grind with the society, as I feel in general and especially with the Keystone they do a very good job. I'm just generally a grumpy person;-) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] A useless bit of data Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:27:17 +0000 I think you will find that the reason it doesn't add up to 100% is because metal specs. are given in ranges like 83.3 - 83.7% with 83.5 being the middle of the range. It obviously has to add up to 100% or wouldn't exist. Their way of reporting it makes it come out to less than 100%. Obviously done by someone who didn't know how metals are made or analyzed. > Gosh Bob, what color Floquil paint matches that??? :-) > > Lew > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "robert netzlof" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 1:19 PM > Subject: [PRR] A useless bit of data > > > > From: > > Materials Handbook > > An Encyclopedia for Purchasing Agents, Engineers, Executives, and > > Foremen > > George S Brady > > 5th ed 5th impression > > McGraw-Hill Book Company, New york and London, 1944 > > Copyright 1929, 1931, 1937, 1940, 1944 > > > > "Statuary bronze for cast plaques used in building construction > > contains 86% copper, 2 tin, 2 lead, 8 zinc, and 2 nickel. The nickel > > improves fluidity and hardens and strengthens the alloy, and the lead > > promotes an oxidized finish on exposure. The statuary bronze used by > > the Pennsylvania Railroad for passenger car trim averages 83.5% of > > copper, 4 lead, 2 tin, and 10 zinc." (Yeah, I noticed it doesn't add > > up to 100%, but that's what the man said.) > > > > So, if you've been agonizing over the proper formula for the statuary > > bronze trim pieces on your N-scale PRR coach, now you know, except > > for that missing 0.5%. > > > > ===== > > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! > > http://platinum.yahoo.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:51:33 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Truc Train yard in Cincinnati? Gentlemen, A question has been raised about TrucTrain facilities in Cincy, probably at/near Undercliff Yard. Can anyone enlighten me? I saw TrailVan ops at Riverside, but missed the TT era on the Pennsy side. Thanks... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:51:33 EST Subject: [PRR] Truc Train yard in Cincinnati? --part1_1e0.52d2646.2bb12c45_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen, A question has been raised about TrucTrain facilities in Cincy, probably at/near Undercliff Yard. Can anyone enlighten me? I saw TrailVan ops at Riverside, but missed the TT era on the Pennsy side. Thanks... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1e0.52d2646.2bb12c45_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen,

A question has been raised about TrucTrain facilities in Cincy, probably at/= near Undercliff Yard.  Can anyone enlighten me?

I saw TrailVan ops at Riverside, but missed the TT era on the Pennsy side.&n= bsp; Thanks...

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_1e0.52d2646.2bb12c45_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:14:36 -0600 I think the "unfair advantage" question was raised with regard to the Steel Mill Tour. Because the registration application was available on-line, those who took advantage by down loading the on-line registration forms were able to sign up for the Steel Mill tour well before the actual registration forms were mailed. I know of at least one person who filled out his forms the day he received them by mail, but found out that the steel mill tour had already been sold out. -----Original Message----- From: Derrick J Brashear [mailto:shadow@dementia.org] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 4:23 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Jerry Britton wrote: > NOTE: This file has the registration form removed!!! The Society received > complaints last year from those who are not online, saying that the online > registration form provided an "unfair advantage" to those who are online. > (I'm going to bite my tongue on that one!) For those of you who want it back, complain. There are 3 possibilities: 1) more who want it back complain a) it comes back b) favoritism of one groups of whiners over another. 2) less who want it back complain For what it's worth, the "unfair advantage" never worked for me. I have no axe to grind with the society, as I feel in general and especially with the Keystone they do a very good job. I'm just generally a grumpy person;-) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 00:50:15 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Subject: [PRR] East Coast Hobby Show pics... Hi all, Here are some photos of new PRR stuff from the East Coast Hobby Show. They were taken earlier today by a friend who attended. Unfortunately I wasn't able to attend... http://prr.railfan.net/ECHS2003/ There are photos of the Broadway Limited GG1's and an in progress shot of the M1. Also, Balwin VO-660's from Stewart and a photo of Stewart's G39. Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:49:32 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Cadwell, Marvin L wrote: > I think the "unfair advantage" question was raised with regard to the Steel > Mill Tour. Because the registration application was available on-line, > those who took advantage by down loading the on-line registration forms were > able to sign up for the Steel Mill tour well before the actual registration > forms were mailed. I know of at least one person who filled out his forms > the day he received them by mail, but found out that the steel mill tour had > already been sold out. Mail delivery is inconsistent. That can happen anyway. I know the "did you get your keystone yet" thing has been beaten to death several times online. I'm still unsympathetic. If the squeaky wheel gets the grease, all the wheels should squeak as loudly as possible, and the loudest squeaker can win. I have no idea who that will be, but at least then it's not just whoever was loudest. No, I didn't go on the steel mill tour. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:10:28 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted Re online registration problems in 2002. Marvin said > "I think the "unfair advantage" question was raised with regard to the Steel Mill Tour." It was both tour sign up and vendors seeking tables. Although we have more vendor tables this year we still have trips - four different ones, two of which are offered twice. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:10:33 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited Update From: Jerry Britton (Intention here is to provide information, not make a sales pitch...) The GG-1 goes into production as soon as the N&W Class A is received, which is expected to be the first week of May. The GG-1's are then expected in late May. BLI originally announced 9 paints schemes for the GG-1. Later they indicated that only three would be released in the "first run", slated for release this "spring". In a recent dealer mailing, they are now offering 7 of the schemes in the initial release. So you should order now (from somewhere) if you want to be guaranteed delivery. M1 is still on track for summer release. T1 is still on track for fall release. BLI has now gone on record as saying this unit will require a 24" minimum radius. BLI has announced the J1 (four road numbers), EMD SW7 (two road numbers), and EMD NW2 (two road numbers). No ETA for any of these, though you should be confident they will be very late this year and into 2004. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:18:17 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, Al Buchan wrote: > Re online registration problems in 2002. I assert there weren't any;-) > Marvin said > "I think the "unfair advantage" question was raised with > regard to the Steel Mill Tour." > > It was both tour sign up and vendors seeking tables. > > Although we have more vendor tables this year we still have trips - four > different ones, two of which are offered twice. The archives tours were done by lottery, yes? There are other answers. They may be unacceptable due to being more work, and I certainly won't argue with that. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:30:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted From: Jerry Britton On 3/25/03 8:10 AM, Al Buchan (abbuchan1@comcast.net) wrote: > Re online registration problems in 2002. > > Marvin said > "I think the "unfair advantage" question was raised with > regard to the Steel Mill Tour." > > It was both tour sign up and vendors seeking tables. > > Although we have more vendor tables this year we still have trips - four > different ones, two of which are offered twice. > Al: I don't know how many complaints the Society received from folks "not online", but I've received many (dozen plus) private e-mails complaining that the registration is not online. I would highly "encourage" you as a director to have the issue brought up at the annual meeting of members. Why not ask for a show of hands of * who wants the registration packet available online * who doesn't * who doesn't care I think the overwhelming majority would support having it online. Who is the Society serving, the majority of its membership or small minorities? Having the materials online is an EFFICIENT method of distribution. To those who don't support it, is Internet access available to them? Or do they live in the stone age somewhere? If they opt to not be online, that is there decision. I don't think this should be held against those that are online. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:03:07 -0600 I assert there was. I know personally of one, otherwise I would not have mentioned it. -----Original Message----- From: Derrick J Brashear [mailto:shadow@dementia.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 7:18 AM To: 'PRR-Talk LIST' Subject: RE: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, Al Buchan wrote: > Re online registration problems in 2002. I assert there weren't any;-) > Marvin said > "I think the "unfair advantage" question was raised with > regard to the Steel Mill Tour." > > It was both tour sign up and vendors seeking tables. > > Although we have more vendor tables this year we still have trips - four > different ones, two of which are offered twice. The archives tours were done by lottery, yes? There are other answers. They may be unacceptable due to being more work, and I certainly won't argue with that. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:09:22 -0500 I've certainly had this happen to me - I get the registration form in the mail, fill it out and take it right over to the post office, and find the tour(s) sold out. But again. mail doesn't always arrive at the same time on the same day either. Lottery? > I think the "unfair advantage" question was raised with regard to the Steel > Mill Tour. Because the registration application was available on-line, > those who took advantage by down loading the on-line registration forms were > able to sign up for the Steel Mill tour well before the actual registration > forms were mailed. I know of at least one person who filled out his forms > the day he received them by mail, but found out that the steel mill tour had > already been sold out. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:17:07 -0500 So reserve some portion of the tours for mail registrations. Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:23:59 +0000 The obvious answer is to send the thing out early enough so that it can arrive in backwoods places like here in Chicago and not accept any returns before a certain postal date. Then it becomes a true lottery. Otherwise the same people lose every year. > I've certainly had this happen to me - I get the registration form in the > mail, fill it out and take it right over to the post office, and find the > tour(s) sold out. But again. mail doesn't always arrive at the same time on > the same day either. Lottery? > > > I think the "unfair advantage" question was raised with regard to the > Steel > > Mill Tour. Because the registration application was available on-line, > > those who took advantage by down loading the on-line registration forms > were > > able to sign up for the Steel Mill tour well before the actual > registration > > forms were mailed. I know of at least one person who filled out his forms > > the day he received them by mail, but found out that the steel mill tour > had > > already been sold out. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] switch keys NC RR Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:51:29 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C2F2C4.DF6BF020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary Farmer: Your key has a different bitt than either of my Northern = Central Switch Keys. What is on the reverse of the key? I can't make it out. leeprrswitchkey@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C2F2C4.DF6BF020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gary Farmer: Your key has a different bitt than either of my = Northern=20 Central Switch Keys.
 
What is on the reverse of the key? I can't make it out.
 
leeprrswitchkey@msn.com
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C2F2C4.DF6BF020-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 12:20:11 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRRTHSe-NEWS] Special Announcement - 25 March 2003 From: Jerry Britton The registration form for the PRRT&HS convention is now available for download from Keystone Crossings at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/prrths/ On 3/25/03 11:34 AM, Al Buchan (abbuchan1@comcast.net) wrote: > PRRT&HS e-NEWS > Special Announcement - 25 March 2003 > > ================================== > > 2003 ANNUAL MEETING REGISTRATION FORM > > Due to the tardiness of the mailing of the 2003 Annual Meeting > Registration Form it has been now put online for downloading, printing > and submission. > > It is posted in the "e-NEWS" files and the PRR-FAX files at Yahoo groups > and may be downloaded. At both of these Yahoo sites it is filed as "2003 > Annual Meeting Registration Form." It will also be available for > downloading at "Keystone Crossings." ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRRTHSe-NEWS] Special Announcement - 25 March 2003 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:26:36 -0500 > The registration form for the PRRT&HS convention is now available for > download ====================== But Jerry, doesn't that give we folks with computers an unfair advantage? (My suit of armor is freshly cleaned and I'm in my bomb-proof bunker!) Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] Keys Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:28:15 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C2F2E3.27D89AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary I'd almost bet my right arm that that's not a Northern Central = switch key. I have three keys all marked differantly, but all with the same Northern = Central Switch Key Cut. A few years ago my son found a wire with Three = marked M C RWY keys and one marked N C R R Can. Div. for the Canadiaga = Division in upstate New York which the Northern Central owned, but it = has a different cut than the original NC RWY switch key cut. This could be what you have. The bitt on the Cand. Div. key is the same = as the ones you have. Example the PRR used one key for their lines West = of Pittsburgh and another cut for Lines East of Pittsburgh. The Lines = West cut they finially adopted in 1948 as their system wide key. The Erie and Ashtabula Div of the PRR used an even different cut key = than the Lines West of Pittsburgh used. And so it goes on and on and on. At this point I'd say its anyones guess.!!! leeprrswitchkey@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C2F2E3.27D89AC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gary I'd almost bet my right arm that that=92s not a Northern = Central switch=20 key.
 
I have three keys all marked differantly, but all with the same = Northern=20 Central Switch Key Cut. A few years ago my son found a wire with Three = marked M=20 C RWY keys and one marked N C R R Can. Div. for the Canadiaga Division = in=20 upstate New York which the Northern Central owned, but it has a = different cut=20 than the original NC RWY switch key cut.
 
This could be what you have. The bitt on the Cand. Div. key is the = same as=20 the ones you have. Example the PRR used one key for their lines West of=20 Pittsburgh and another cut for Lines East of Pittsburgh. The Lines West = cut they=20 finially adopted in 1948 as their system wide key.
 
The Erie and Ashtabula Div of the PRR used an even different cut = key than=20 the Lines West of Pittsburgh used. And so it goes on and on and = on.
 
At this point I'd say its anyones guess.!!!
 
 
leeprrswitchkey@msn.com
------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C2F2E3.27D89AC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:34:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRRTHSe-NEWS] Special Announcement - 25 March 2003 From: Jerry Britton On 3/25/03 3:26 PM, William Bigler (wbigler@stny.rr.com) wrote: >> The registration form for the PRRT&HS convention is now available for >> download > ====================== > But Jerry, doesn't that give we folks with computers an unfair advantage? > (My suit of armor is freshly cleaned and I'm in my bomb-proof bunker!) > Darn right it does...the people who aren't online will read about the convention (past tense) in the next issue of The Keystone!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:35:21 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart G39 All, Mark's comments are interesting as here again is a case where two manufacturers are competeing for a small confined market but with the potential of big sales on a single product. Th G39 is a specialty car for PRR/PC/Conrail buyers, an Ore Jennie. With the tooling coming from Jimmy Booth (EEL RIVER MODELS/HI-TECH MODElS)will be of dynamic tooling and from what Mark leads us to believe (and I trust his judgement) the other tooling fails to meet standards set by Life Like, Atlas and a host of others. I just can't understand why anyone would believe we need both and especially of a lesser quality than the market seems to want? Sometimes I feel we are taking huge steps backwards when most (Walthers included) are talking big strides forwards. Perhaps I am wrong... Maybe the market is perhaps more of a built up Tyco/Mantua,MDC and Ulrich than I ever thought it was... 3^) I for one will wait to spend my dollars on the highest quality my dollars can afford. I would much rather have less units of higher quality, than more units of a lesser quality. But that is just me. But if there is a bright side to all this at least there is now a price guideline to the G38's and G39's we should see form EEL River/HI-Tech Models. PErhaps we can get him to include two kits in the same package? Now that should be a teaser! Certainly the sample we saw in Naperville was up to Mark's standards. Greg Martin ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÅ¢¶¬²+-jwÂ+a¶¬–+-þ™^jǯŠÈ­†ÛiÿÿåŠËlýÛ(§÷( !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:45:16 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Broadway Ltd new stuff Eric writes... > PRR J1 2-10-4 > N&W Class H2a Hopper Cars > > Looks like a load of steam era stuff. > > Eric Hansmann > Morgantown, W. Va. Now that the cat is out of the bag I can say that I think that the J1/J1a should be a relief to see. It has been one of my favorite locomotives that the PRR decide to build. I know that Tony has been running down plans for details for sometime. Hindman drew the basic locomotive in the mid'80s. Bob called me and ask me to get in touch with Tony regarding details like the placement of the bell (not on Bob's drawings as it was hidden) and I suggested he get in touch with yet again...OUR OWN Bob Johnson... I hope he found what he needed. I can't wait to get at least one or two. And it is interesting that BLI is challenging the market by doing the N&W/PRR/B&O H2a. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRRTHSe-NEWS] Special Announcement - 25 March 2003 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:57:46 +0000 If only we could! Isn't it true that most of the stuff presented never make the Keystone? My request for hard copies of the handouts and presentations fell on deaf ears (too expensive you know). > On 3/25/03 3:26 PM, William Bigler (wbigler@stny.rr.com) wrote: > > >> The registration form for the PRRT&HS convention is now available for > >> download > > ====================== > > But Jerry, doesn't that give we folks with computers an unfair advantage? > > (My suit of armor is freshly cleaned and I'm in my bomb-proof bunker!) > > > Darn right it does...the people who aren't online will read about the > convention (past tense) in the next issue of The Keystone!!! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:09:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Ltd new stuff Greg, You bring up the Bell for the BLI J1. What is Tony's plan for the sound for this Bell? I guess this would be left to QS1 to decide? They won't be using the generic Brass Bell sound will they? Do they already have this J1 sound in thier files? I know, lots of questions. But the purists among us know the J1 Bell had a Steel Bell which had a sound that differed over the Brass/Bronze Bells. I own a J1 Bell and yes it is Steel. I just recently acquired a PRR Valve Clapper assemby in hopes of getting it in operating condition. Prelim attempts at recording the sounds has not proven easy. With cheap recording equipment, I just can't get the sound down. If and when I do, QS1 could possibly put this in the sound system? In the meantime I am working on getting a J1 Bell wav file done to place on my website. Stay Tuned.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:26:07 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Ltd new stuff Gary, Perhaps if you contacted QS1 they would be eager to record your J1 bell for their collection of sounds and incorporate it into the BLI J1. I'll bet they have the right equipment! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Gary Mittner wrote: > Greg, > > You bring up the Bell for the BLI J1. What is Tony's plan for the > sound for this Bell? I guess this would be left to QS1 to decide? They > won't be using the generic Brass Bell sound will they? Do they already > have this J1 sound in thier files? I know, lots of questions. But the > purists among us know the J1 Bell had a Steel Bell which had a sound > that differed over the Brass/Bronze Bells. > I own a J1 Bell and yes it is Steel. I just recently acquired a PRR > Valve Clapper assemby in hopes of getting it in operating condition. > Prelim attempts at recording the sounds has not proven easy. With cheap > recording equipment, I just can't get the sound down. If and when I do, > QS1 could possibly put this in the sound system? In the meantime I am > working on getting a J1 Bell wav file done to place on my website. Stay > Tuned.......Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:40:11 -0500 As one putting together a presentation for a future convention, there are indeed some considerations relating to handouts. One is the copywrite issue. We should be ok if we don't charge for them, but it could still get sticky if someone wanted to push the issue, and there are people out there who are strange and push whether they're right or not. Second, there is a real issue of who pays for the copies. The materials are slides from various sources - photos, books, internet, etc, etc, and just getting them all into copyable form is some work. Making duplicate sets of slides would be really costly. I suppose the presenters could make copies only if/when someone orders them and they have money in hand, but now it becomes a time issue. For the society to videotape them, someone would need to volunteer the time and provide and pay for the equipment. And how many would really buy copies? Equipment to video slides being projected and get good results isn't cheap. Just some thoughts from one SPF. By the way, got your registration downloaded, printed, filled out, separate checks written, and all taken to the post office yet? Mine is on the way! (Your check is in the mail.) Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRRTHSe-NEWS] Special Announcement - 25 March 2003 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:47:06 -0500 Thanks Jerry for the downloadable registration. I promise this is my last e-mail on the subject, but hey - levity lightens the load and there do appear to be some legitimate issues here. At first, I thought we retirees had the edge - after all, with no day jobs we can be sitting at our computers, and when the e-mail bell rings, read it, print the reg. form, and send it in, since we are free to leave for the post office immediately. But then I got thinking. Ever notice most posts to these lists come during working hours? Methinks most folks aren't on line at all, but use their company e-mail addresses. Which means they really know when "they've got mail" and can whip off the check and get it right down to the mail room where the company will put a stamp on it and deliver it to the post office before closing. Meanwhile, we retirees are off researching some portion of the former PRR. Not to mention having to use our own personal computers and having to pay for and maintain them ourselves. Foul, foul, I cry! Bill (for the last time) whose registration is in the mail, and he did it all by himself! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:55:15 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: Re: [PRR] Fantastic X23 photos --------------Boundary-00=_3KRBQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gregg, Great photos Thanks for the heads up and the link Jim=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Gregg Mahlkov=0D Date: Sunday, March 23, 2003 14:49:40=0D To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com; PRR-n_scale@yahoogroups.com=0D Subject: [PRR] Fantastic X23 photos=0D =0D Lists:=0D =0D In case any of y'all haven't looked on the Steam Freightcars site lately,= =0D there an absolutely fantastic set of photos taken in 1940 of an X23 boxca= r.=0D You could scratchbuild one direct from the photos, they're that good: See= :=0D http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/prr538111main.html=0D =0D Gregg Mahlkov=0D =0D =0D =0D -----------------------------------------------------------------------=0D For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.=0D =0D =2E=20 --------------Boundary-00=_3KRBQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gregg,  Great photos    Thanks for the head= s up and the link    Jim
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: Sunday, Marc= h 23, 2003 14:49:40
Subject: [PRR] Fan= tastic X23 photos
 
Lists:

In case any of y'all haven't looked on the= Steam Freightcars site lately,
there an absolutely fantastic set of p= hotos taken in 1940 of an X23 boxcar.
You could scratchbuild one direc= t from the photos, they're that good: See:
http://www.steamfreig= htcars.com/gallery/boxauto/prr538111main.html

Gregg Mahlkov


------------------------------------------------------------= -----------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

.
--------------Boundary-00=_3KRBQL80000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:01:50 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRRTHSe-NEWS] Special Announcement - 25 March 2003 Norm said> Isn't it true that most of the stuff presented never make the Keystone? My request for hard copies of the handouts and presentations fell on deaf ears (too expensive you know). First of all most of the presenters don't make handouts. Secondly it does cost money to have them reproduced and mailed. However, I'm sure if you contacted a presenter they would be happy to send you something, if they had it, and you offered to pay the postage, or if it was in computer format send it to you as an attachment. Several years ago when I gave a presentation on Erie, PA one of the guys in the audience, who lurks on this list, asked me if he could have some of the graphics, as he was going to give some type of program on the Great Lakes, or coal and ore traffic or something. I had made them using PowerPoint so I said sure, and sent him what I could. Do you think I even got an - appreciate it, let alone a - thanks a lot? NO, NADA, NOTHING. I'm not looking for a lot of praise - but at least an acknowledgment that it was received would have been nice. Would I help him again - probably NOT! If you make the meeting this year, perhaps you make notes on each presentation that doesn't have handouts - type them up and post them somewhere. It would be a nice service and you would become part of the solution you're seeking. We should be fortunate that some folks will at least give programs, let alone write Keystone articles. We can always look at every situation as our glass being half-full or half-empty. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:07:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Ltd new stuff List, Just thought I would throw this in. Here is a PRR Bell comparison jpg: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/kjbells.JPG The one on the left is the J1 Bell, the one on the right is the K4s Bell, which has been taken off the lower part of the cradle. I hope BLI won't place a shiny Brass Bell in back of the Pilot area. :>).......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:17:25 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Fantastic X23 photos Greg said: >Fantastic X23 photos Lists:In case any of y'all haven't looked on the >Steam Freightcars site lately,there an absolutely fantastic set of photos >taken in 1940 of an X23 boxcar.You could scratchbuild one direct from the >photos, they're that good: The good news (for HO) is that you won't have to for long...the latest I heard on the Westerfield X23 is 6 weeks!!!!! Yipeeeeee!!! (and the R7 is coming along too) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:23:18 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRRTHSe-NEWS] Special Announcement - 25 March 2003 On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, Al Buchan wrote: > If you make the meeting this year, perhaps you make notes on each > presentation that doesn't have handouts - type them up and post them > somewhere. It would be a nice service and you would become part of the > solution you're seeking. I was the freak who for the last several years has carried a laptop with me to all the sessions, and who last year carted in a scanner from the car several times. If I remember to, I will bring a microphone and capture audio to the laptop to transcribe later (my typing skills are subpar for transcription but more than adequate for programming) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:20:34 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Subject: [PRR] PRR meeting hotel... Hi all, If you're making reservations at the Ramada for the PRRT&HS annual meeting you might want to check Ramada's web site before calling. They have a promo rate of $64 a night instead of the $69 PRRT&HS rate! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:44:58 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR meeting hotel... On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Hi all, > > If you're making reservations at the Ramada for the > PRRT&HS annual meeting you might want to check Ramada's > web site before calling. They have a promo rate of $64 > a night instead of the $69 PRRT&HS rate! Actually, I just got $54. "SEASONAL PROMOTION PROGRAM OPEN TO EVERYONE" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Fantastic X23 photos Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:12:02 -0500 Gee 6 weeks, I wonder what is happening around that time. Anyone want to guess? :-) > Brian C ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:16:04 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Fantastic X23 photos Hi Gregg & list members, >In case any of y'all haven't looked on the Steam Freightcars site lately, >there an absolutely fantastic set of photos taken in 1940 of an X23 >boxcar. You could scratchbuild one direct from the photos, they're that >good: See: >http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/prr538111main.html Thanks for pointing these out - excellent photos showing a member of my favorite PRR boxcar class! - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:00:31 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations IF (big IF) the copyright issues can be resolved, the handouts could be posted on a website somewhere as either PDF or Powerpoint slides....much like all the classroom lecture material and syllabi (sp?) at many colleges and universities these days. This might discourage some from actually attending the convention --just like it enables some students to skip classes! overall, it would disseminate valuable information to the masses of inquiring minds... Jim McDaniel, down in the boonies of Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:46:16 EST Subject: [PRR] "Fair" distribution of convention materials --part1_10c.218970ee.2bb30928_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/25/03 4:53:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: RE: [PRR] Program for Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted > From: "Al Buchan" > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:10:28 -0500 > > Re online registration problems in 2002. > > Marvin said > "I think the "unfair advantage" question was raised with > regard to the Steel Mill Tour." > > It was both tour sign up and vendors seeking tables. > > Although we have more vendor tables this year we still have trips - four > different ones, two of which are offered twice. > > Al > Folks, there is no such thing as "fair" when distributing this kind of info. Mail discriminates against those living farther away, and website discriminates against those who don't have email, or don't have a friend who has email. We might as well argue that those with dialup access are disadvantaged over those with broadband. And then there are us AOL subscribers whose web access only works when it feels like it. However, distribution by email or website does help get the info out faster to more people, so I see it as a virtue (even though I haven't downloaded my forms yet). In any case, those arguing about fairness have never put on a convention -- the hosting Chapter and numerous others involved in putting on the convention probably have access to hard copies of the form before it's distributed to the "public". Bottom line, arguing about "fairness" in distribution is silly. Seek redress through other means... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_10c.218970ee.2bb30928_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/25/03 4:53:30 PM Eastern Standard= Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: RE: [PRR] Program for=20= Upcoming PRRT&HS Convention Posted
From: "Al Buchan" <abbuchan1@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:10:28 -0500

Re online registration problems in 2002.

Marvin said > "I think the "unfair advantage" question was raised with regard to the Steel Mill Tour."

It was both tour sign up and vendors seeking tables.

Although we have more vendor tables this year we still have trips - four
different ones, two of which are offered twice.

Al


Folks, there is no such thing as "fair" when distributing this kind of info.=   Mail discriminates against those living farther away, and website dis= criminates against those who don't have email, or don't have a friend who ha= s email.  We might as well argue that those with dialup access are disa= dvantaged over those with broadband.  And then there are us AOL subscri= bers whose web access only works when it feels like it.

However, distribution by email or website does help get the info out faster=20= to more people, so I see it as a virtue (even though I haven't downloaded my= forms yet).

In any case, those arguing about fairness have never put on a convention --=20= the hosting Chapter and numerous others involved in putting on the conventio= n probably have access to hard copies of the form before it's distributed to= the "public".

Bottom line, arguing about "fairness" in distribution is silly.  Seek r= edress through other means...

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_10c.218970ee.2bb30928_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:53:56 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations Jim said> IF (big IF) the copyright issues can be resolved, the handouts could be posted on a website somewhere as either PDF or PowerPoint slides....much like all the classroom lecture material and syllabi (sp?) at many colleges and universities these days. Yes Jim, certainly a possibility. And provided the presenter made a handout, and provided the presenter permits same, and provided the copyrights (if any) can be resolved, do I hear someone volunteering to do this? Thanx. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] B&O Museum Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:35:19 +0000 borail.com has picture of the damage to the roundhouse and the clean up to date if anyone is interested in seeing them. Nothing PRR is in the pictures that I saw as would be expected inside the roundhouse. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: howdy@qnet.com Subject: Re: [PRR] B&O Museum Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 15:05:01 GMT Just a minor correction to site address it is borail.net not .com Howdy > borail.com has picture of the damage to the roundhouse and the clean up to date > if anyone is interested in seeing them. Nothing PRR is in the pictures that I > saw as would be expected inside the roundhouse. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: howdy@qnet.com Subject: Re: [PRR] B&O Museum OOPS Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 15:07:10 GMT OOPS!!! Now I have egg on my face..... It is borail.org not .net or .com Boy do I feel........ Howdy > borail.com has picture of the damage to the roundhouse and the clean up to date > if anyone is interested in seeing them. Nothing PRR is in the pictures that I > saw as would be expected inside the roundhouse. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Copyright issues re presentations Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:00:09 -0500 Are there any attorneys on the list who can offer a brief, concise summary of the bottom line on the copyright issue on presentation materials? If a presenter uses slides of copyright photographs and slides of pictures from copyright books, but there is no charge for the presentation, is there a problem? How about if the presenter gives copies to friends for no charge? Distributes copies for no charge? E-mails copies to friends for no charge? Posts the presentation to a website? Seems to me no different from showing friends the pictures or the pages from the book, but the law is the law, so the question is: what does it say? Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:46:55 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: TAN [PRR] Copyright issues re presentations Bill asks: >Are there any attorneys on the list who can offer a brief, concise summary >of the bottom line on the copyright issue on presentation materials? If a >presenter uses slides of copyright photographs and slides of pictures from >copyright books, but there is no charge for the presentation, is there a >problem? How about if the presenter gives copies to friends for no charge? >Distributes copies for no charge? E-mails copies to friends for no charge? >Posts the presentation to a website? Seems to me no different from showing >friends the pictures or the pages from the book, but the law is the law, so >the question is: what does it say? Bill, I'm no lawyer (in fact, being in the medical profession, I know a LOT of jokes about lawyers ), but let me give you some ideas... The "fairy use" doctrine says that if you own the book or magazine or bought the photo from a dealer, you can make copies for your own use. You cannot make a copy for a friend. It is irrelevant if the copy is physical or electronic...your friend can borrow the book, but cannot legally copy it. You can sell him the book...(we're getting onto thinner ice here...) and he can then make copies for himself and sell it back to you . I gave a seminar at Prototype Rails 3 in Cocoa Beach Florida in January on Military Loads in WWII. At the clinic, I had handouts that consisted of an outline of my presentation, with lists and tables of items, and a list of resources. I used images from an on-line site (library) to illustrate some of my points. That site specifies a rather expensive licensing strategy for use (and it is clearly based on PUBLISHING the images), however, I felt that my use fell under the "fair use" for education doctrine. I did feel that putting the images in the handout would expose me to legal action. It is my plan, when I get a few spare minutes, to put the handout on the web, with links to the photos in question, to allow the viewer to directly access them. It is my philosophy that posting on the web of ANY third party material (ie anything that isn't clearly your copywrite) must have the permission of that third party. Thus, I would need the permission of the source of the photos to put the actual jpegs on my site, but I need no such permission to link to their site . Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR meeting hotel... Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:47:28 -0500 The only problem with not taking the PRRT&HS room rate even though it is more expensive is that it will hurt the society. When the society bargains with the hotel for the meeting they guarantee so many room nights will be taken by the conventioneers. If we don't meet the required number the society will be hit with a substantial penalty. My forensic society had a meeting and alot of the attendees went on line to get rooms. Since we didn't meet the quota they billed us $1200 penalty! Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Derrick J Brashear [mailto:shadow@dementia.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 6:45 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR meeting hotel... On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Hi all, > > If you're making reservations at the Ramada for the > PRRT&HS annual meeting you might want to check Ramada's > web site before calling. They have a promo rate of $64 > a night instead of the $69 PRRT&HS rate! Actually, I just got $54. "SEASONAL PROMOTION PROGRAM OPEN TO EVERYONE" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:47:45 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Copyright issues re presentations Greetings to Bill, Jerry and the List: This is an involved and sticky area. In discussions on the list, we can never hope to do more than scratch the surface. I'm not a lawyer but I am a writer who deals with this as part of earning a living. The law is set up to protect those whose livelihood depends on their productive pursuits and, for better or worse, it applies to all creative expression, be it writing, photography, music, poetry, or graphic design. In this field of interest, there's a lot of casual sharing that goes on, and while some people are professionals, many others do this as a hobby. It's the contact between those two areas that creates the potential for misunderstandings and conflicts. Copyright law makes no distinction, however, and treats all creative expression as the exclusive personal proterty of the creator. Further, take note that the seriousness with which the law holds this issue is reflected in the fact that it's a federal statute. At the risk of drawing some fire here, I'll say that on some occasions I've declined permission for people who asked to videotape presentations I've given (including at PRRT&HS events) because they could not or would not guarantee that it would never be used for commercial, for-profit, purposes. While we like to, and tend to, think of each other (listmembers, PRRT&HS members, PRR fans generally etc.) as having the best of motives in wanting to share information and resources, these issues are more complex than can be tied up with a blanket statement made by someone or someones on the internet. To take a small example, suppose someone wanted to give a presentation on South Amboy engine facilities. Nobody would probably object to someone photocopying out of a book for private use as an aid to building a model. But we all know that Don Wood shot a lot of photos there in the last days of steam, a period of great interest. Suppose the presenter copies Don's photos out of books -- even books that Don has published -- as part of his production. To do so for presentation to others and in any repackaging or summary of that presentation without Don's permission is illegal, plain and simple. The law simply gives Don and all other copyright holders protection for their work. The nub of the issue for us is that the PRR was so big and the written and photographic record of it so spread out that no one person or institution has a lock on all that information. Thus, with most research projects, we have to collaborate and share and borrow. The bottom line of that is, make every effort to get permission from every owner before doing any "publishing" -- and the definition of that term would include not just books but also presentations, handouts, and web pages. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ---------------------- William Bigler wrote: >Are there any attorneys on the list who can offer a brief, concise summary >of the bottom line on the copyright issue on presentation materials? If a >presenter uses slides of copyright photographs and slides of pictures from >copyright books, but there is no charge for the presentation, is there a >problem? How about if the presenter gives copies to friends for no charge? >Distributes copies for no charge? E-mails copies to friends for no charge? >Posts the presentation to a website? Seems to me no different from showing >friends the pictures or the pages from the book, but the law is the law, so >the question is: what does it say? > >Bill Bigler >Big Flats NY >Modeling PRR Renovo & > Williamsport WWII > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:01:10 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR meeting hotel... So why don't we take the cheaper rooms and donate the $15/night difference to the Society. At least that makes it tax deductible! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > The only problem with not taking the PRRT&HS room rate even though it is > more expensive is that it will hurt the society. When the society bargains > with the hotel for the meeting they guarantee so many room nights will be > taken by the conventioneers. If we don't meet the required number the > society will be hit with a substantial penalty. My forensic society had a > meeting and alot of the attendees went on line to get rooms. Since we > didn't meet the quota they billed us $1200 penalty! > > Chris Chany > > -----Original Message----- > From: Derrick J Brashear [mailto:shadow@dementia.org] > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 6:45 PM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR meeting hotel... > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, Rob Schoenberg wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > If you're making reservations at the Ramada for the > > PRRT&HS annual meeting you might want to check Ramada's > > web site before calling. They have a promo rate of $64 > > a night instead of the $69 PRRT&HS rate! > > Actually, I just got $54. > > "SEASONAL PROMOTION PROGRAM OPEN TO EVERYONE" > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] Copyright issues re presentations Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:15:45 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2F3C3.B8801810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan, While I greatly appreciate the position regarding presentations "not for profit", in order for me to present ANY photographs of the prototype at my presentation in the manner in which I was going to do it), at this point, will effectively prevent me from doing so. Period. I have neither the time nor inclination to seek out and obtain the permission of any and all owners or intermediaries that have photos in books that I would have liked to have included as examples from which I modeled. I am glad you have told us that this constraint applied also to presentations, as I would have made a major mistake. And I hope that simply presenting the models will be as satisfying to the membership as having done a broader presentation on both prototype and model. Live and learn! Thanks for the warning, Elden -----Original Message----- From: Dan Cupper [mailto:cupper@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 9:48 AM To: William Bigler Cc: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Copyright issues re presentations Greetings to Bill, Jerry and the List: This is an involved and sticky area. In discussions on the list, we can never hope to do more than scratch the surface. I'm not a lawyer but I am a writer who deals with this as part of earning a living. The law is set up to protect those whose livelihood depends on their productive pursuits and, for better or worse, it applies to all creative expression, be it writing, photography, music, poetry, or graphic design. In this field of interest, there's a lot of casual sharing that goes on, and while some people are professionals, many others do this as a hobby. It's the contact between those two areas that creates the potential for misunderstandings and conflicts. Copyright law makes no distinction, however, and treats all creative expression as the exclusive personal proterty of the creator. Further, take note that the seriousness with which the law holds this issue is reflected in the fact that it's a federal statute. At the risk of drawing some fire here, I'll say that on some occasions I've declined permission for people who asked to videotape presentations I've given (including at PRRT&HS events) because they could not or would not guarantee that it would never be used for commercial, for-profit, purposes. While we like to, and tend to, think of each other (listmembers, PRRT&HS members, PRR fans generally etc.) as having the best of motives in wanting to share information and resources, these issues are more complex than can be tied up with a blanket statement made by someone or someones on the internet. To take a small example, suppose someone wanted to give a presentation on South Amboy engine facilities. Nobody would probably object to someone photocopying out of a book for private use as an aid to building a model. But we all know that Don Wood shot a lot of photos there in the last days of steam, a period of great interest. Suppose the presenter copies Don's photos out of books -- even books that Don has published -- as part of his production. To do so for presentation to others and in any repackaging or summary of that presentation without Don's permission is illegal, plain and simple. The law simply gives Don and all other copyright holders protection for their work. The nub of the issue for us is that the PRR was so big and the written and photographic record of it so spread out that no one person or institution has a lock on all that information. Thus, with most research projects, we have to collaborate and share and borrow. The bottom line of that is, make every effort to get permission from every owner before doing any "publishing" -- and the definition of that term would include not just books but also presentations, handouts, and web pages. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ---------------------- William Bigler wrote: >Are there any attorneys on the list who can offer a brief, concise summary >of the bottom line on the copyright issue on presentation materials? If a >presenter uses slides of copyright photographs and slides of pictures from >copyright books, but there is no charge for the presentation, is there a >problem? How about if the presenter gives copies to friends for no charge? >Distributes copies for no charge? E-mails copies to friends for no charge? >Posts the presentation to a website? Seems to me no different from showing >friends the pictures or the pages from the book, but the law is the law, so >the question is: what does it say? > >Bill Bigler >Big Flats NY >Modeling PRR Renovo & > Williamsport WWII > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2F3C3.B8801810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] Copyright issues re presentations

Dan,  While I greatly appreciate the position = regarding presentations "not for profit", in order for me to = present ANY photographs of the prototype at my presentation in the = manner in which I was going to do it), at this point, will effectively = prevent me from doing so.  Period.

        I have = neither the time nor inclination to seek out and obtain the permission = of any and all owners or intermediaries that have photos in books that = I would have liked to have included as examples from which I = modeled.

        I am glad = you have told us that this constraint applied also to presentations, as = I would have made a major mistake.  And I hope that simply = presenting the models will be as satisfying to the membership as having = done a broader presentation on both prototype and model.

        Live and = learn!
Thanks for the warning,
Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Cupper [mailto:cupper@att.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 9:48 AM
To: William Bigler
Cc: PRR-Talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] Copyright issues re = presentations


Greetings to Bill, Jerry and the List:

This is an involved and sticky area. In discussions = on the list, we can
never hope to do more than scratch the = surface.

I'm not a lawyer but I am a writer who deals with = this as part of
earning a living. The law is set up to protect those = whose livelihood
depends on their productive pursuits and, for better = or worse, it
 applies to all creative expression, be it = writing, photography, music,
poetry, or graphic design. In this field of = interest, there's a lot of
casual sharing that goes on, and while some people = are professionals,
many others do this as a hobby. It's the contact = between those two areas
that creates the potential for misunderstandings and = conflicts.
Copyright law makes no distinction, however, and = treats all creative
expression as the exclusive personal proterty of the = creator. Further,
take note that the seriousness with which the law = holds this issue is
reflected in the fact that it's a federal = statute.

At the risk of drawing some fire here, I'll say that = on some occasions
I've declined permission for people who asked to = videotape presentations
I've given (including at PRRT&HS events) because = they could not or would
not guarantee that it would never be used for = commercial, for-profit,
purposes. While we like to, and tend to, think of = each other
(listmembers, PRRT&HS members, PRR fans = generally etc.) as having the
best of motives in wanting to share information and = resources, these
issues are more complex than can be tied up with a = blanket statement
made by someone or someones on the internet.

To take a small example, suppose someone wanted to = give a presentation
on South Amboy engine facilities. Nobody would = probably object to
someone photocopying out of a book for private use = as an aid to building
a model. But we all know that Don Wood shot a lot of = photos there in the
last days of steam, a period of great interest. = Suppose the presenter
copies Don's photos out of books -- even books that = Don has published --
as part of his production. To do so for presentation = to others and in
any repackaging or summary of that presentation = without Don's permission
is illegal, plain and simple. The law simply gives = Don and all other
copyright holders protection for their work.

The nub of the issue for us is that the PRR was so = big and the written
and photographic record of it so spread out that no = one person or
institution has a lock on all that information. = Thus, with most research
projects, we have to collaborate and share and = borrow. The bottom line
of that is, make every effort to get permission from = every owner before
doing any "publishing" -- and the = definition of that term would include
not just books but also presentations, handouts, and = web pages.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.

----------------------

William Bigler wrote:

>Are there any attorneys on the list who can offer = a brief, concise summary
>of the bottom line on the copyright issue on = presentation materials?  If a
>presenter uses slides of copyright photographs = and slides of pictures from
>copyright books, but there is no charge for the = presentation, is there a
>problem?  How about if the presenter gives = copies to friends for no charge?
>Distributes copies for no charge?  E-mails = copies to friends for no charge?
>Posts the presentation to a website?  Seems = to me no different from showing
>friends the pictures or the pages from the book, = but the law is the law, so
>the question is: what does it say?
>
>Bill Bigler
>Big Flats NY
>Modeling PRR Renovo &
>     Williamsport = WWII
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------= ------------
>For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
>
> 
>



---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2F3C3.B8801810-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:45:59 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: TAN [PRR] Copyright issues re presentations Dan sez: >This is an involved and sticky area. In discussions on the list, we can >never hope to do more than scratch the surface. Indeed! I think though that many of you may not be familiar with aspects of the "fair use" doctrine that allow educational use. As both a published author and a Professor, I work under these rules every day...Clinics/Seminars DEFINITETLY count as educational, so lets look at how it might work... Let us use Dan's example of a photo published in a book. Is it OK to show the pictures in a book you own to your friends?...of course! Is it OK to hold the book up in front of an audience to show?...yes Is it OK to put the book in front of a video telestrater to project the image on the screen?...yes Is it OK to scan that photo, and insert it into a PowerPoint Presentation with proper credit?...yes (but this is a little grey) Is it OK to photocopy the page from the book with proper credit and put it in the handout?...probably not. You are allowed this activity under the rules IF your audience would have had access to the material anyway. So for example, I can photocopy and distribute journal articles to my class, if the university has a subscription to the journal. Clearly, you cannot expect all the audience members at a PRRT&HS meeting to have a given book (even if 95% do!) and thus the prohibition on copying and distributing. Hows this for grey... Clearly, it would be OK for me to put a link to a photo on the web on one of my own web pages without permission. What then is the difference between that, and encoding the HTML to reference the image from the original site and display it on my page? The image APPEARS on my page, but in fact the bytes for that image are not stored in my server's memory...they are still on the original server. I would also agree with Dan, that you should make EVERY attempt possible to obtain permission before using the work of others, and always, always, always give proper credit. Besides being just plain couteous, it also removes any legal greyness... Happy rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 16:37:54 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: TAN [PRR] Copyright issues re presentations Bruce: Good answer and a potential way to legally share the type of info we have been discussing. Jim McDaniel, non-disseminting info from Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Cnvention information Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:56:49 +0000 I think we are making this too hard. If a person is using information that is available on a web site all we need is the URL or the source if printed material. That is a heck of lot easier than having to obtain and store hard copies. Besides it doesn't take up any space in my house! I would think that anyone allowing access to a web site is encouraging people to use the information for their own use. It just seems a shame that for those of us that don't have any hope of ever being able to attend a national convention are shut out from the information presented. I can't believe the, "It would hurt attendance" argument is valid. The legal one is absolutely but since nothing has ever been tried every opinion as to success, work distribution, and ramifications is as valid as the next. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Re: Copywright issues Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 17:48:55 -0500 Thanks to all those who replied on the copywrite issues (I'm sure there are more to come). Some excellent, well thought out information here. As I understand it, I'm ok in making slides of copywrite materials to show at my presentation providing I don't hand out copies. And note that I would cite credits, sources, and how/where to get copies of the information from the sources. Beyond that, I'm heading for trouble for sure. Yes? No? Note also that I will make every effort to get permission, but my goodness, there are a lot of them, and some I have no idea how to track down (photographers in particular). How about items from the Pennsylvania Railroad which are copywrite? The railroad is gone, but the copywrites pass to the estates or whatever, which would seem to be NS/CSX?? Does this apply to things like timetables, CT-1000's, employee timetables, etc, or weren't they copywrited? When you open a can of worms your only hope of recanning them is to get a bigger can! Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 17:55:50 -0500 From: Gregory Vlassopoulos Jr Subject: RE: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations The purpose of a convention is for the social aspect of it. A gathering of 500 plus individuals who all share a common interest, the PRR. It is not cost feasible for the PRRTHS to disseminate all the presentations in a format acceptable while keeping the price down. I do event planning for the pharmaceutical industry. They pay $1,800 for 2 day conferences on FDA compliance and validation. Now, if everyone is will to pay evan half that, I would say were onto something. I, for one, would not want my collection of costly, near and dear slides, that took me years to accumulate and organize, plastered all over the internet for someone to copy, and place on a "must have" cd-rom or "spectacular" collection of photographs never compiled before. Enjoy the convention. It is packed with great presentations and field trips. If you are interested in a presenters materials, than contact that presenter. I am sure if the price is right, he will share his collection. I bet no-one will take this route. Besides, who is willing to pay for copy cost. To copy photos, you will need to copy scanned images at a high resolution which cost money. Some people are complaining about the $69/night rate at the hotel. They found it on the net for $64/night. Only to search relentlessly and zero in at $54/night. Now who is willing to pay the added cost for quality copies when we are quarrelling over $15. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of James L. McDaniel Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 8:01 AM To: William Bigler Cc: ndbprr@att.net; PRR-Talk; Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations IF (big IF) the copyright issues can be resolved, the handouts could be posted on a website somewhere as either PDF or Powerpoint slides....much like all the classroom lecture material and syllabi (sp?) at many colleges and universities these days. This might discourage some from actually attending the convention --just like it enables some students to skip classes! overall, it would disseminate valuable information to the masses of inquiring minds... Jim McDaniel, down in the boonies of Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 18:12:14 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Gregory Vlassopoulos Jr wrote: > Besides, who is willing to pay for copy cost. To copy photos, you will need > to copy scanned images at a high resolution which cost money. Some people > are complaining about the $69/night rate at the hotel. They found it on the > net for $64/night. Only to search relentlessly and zero in at $54/night. Sure, if by "relentlessly" you mean "first thing I tried". > Now who is willing to pay the added cost for quality copies when we are > quarrelling over $15. I paid a more than a hundred for a copy of a document which I'll be scanning and distributing free, during the month of March. You're drawing blanket conclusions. Don't. Or, if you insist on it, draw accurate ones, at least. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 18:30:02 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Copyright Issues From: "Stephen H. Prosser" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3131548203_131454 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, First, a disclaimer. The following does not represent legal advice to any person or group. Rather, it is meant as information to help readers understand the basic concept of "fair use", an exemption in Copyright Law. (Now you know I am a lawyer!!) =80 Fair use (privilege against a direct infringement claim): A privilege i= n others than the owner of a copyright to use the copyrighted material in a reasonable manner without the owner's consent, notwithstanding the monopoly granted to the owner. To determine whether fair use has been made of copyrighted material, the nature and objects of the selections made, the quantity and value of material used and extent to which the use may diminis= h the value of the original work must be considered; Fair use involves a balancing process by which a complex of variables determine whether other interests should override the rights of creators. =80 Copyright Act =A7 107 determinations 1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of = a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes 2 the nature of the CR work: Is it published or not? (pre-publication exploitation of a work more serious than post-pub.) 3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the CR work as a whole 4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the CR work =80 Proof of infringement requires proof that the use is harmful or that if it would become widespread that it would adversely affect the market for th= e CR work (use may suppress but not supplant the market for the CR work) Lastly, common suggests says that if Bozo the clown thinks that he has a valid copyright infringement claim, he may file it, whether or not it has any legal validity. Based on what I have read, the handouts fall under =B3fair use=B2: they are educational in purpose, are not =B3published=B2 beyond the meeting, are used in small excerpts, and have little effect on the market for the various works or images cited. (My opinion only!!) Note to Bruce: =B3Fairy use=B2 is an entirely different legal area! ;~). Hope this helps, --=20 Steve Prosser Modeling Altoona and Environs _____________________________________________=86\ / =3DALTOONA=3D | / =20 | \ HOME OF THE WORLD=B9S LARGEST RAILROAD SHOPS | \____________________________________________ | =20 \ | =20 \| =20 -- --B_3131548203_131454 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Copyright Issues Hi all,

First, a disclaimer.  The following does not represent legal advice to= any person or group.  Rather, it is meant as information to help reade= rs understand the basic concept of "fair use", an exemption in Cop= yright Law.  (Now you know I am a lawyer!!)


=80  Fair use (privilege against a direct infringement claim):  A p= rivilege in others than the owner of a copyright to use the copyrighted mate= rial in a reasonable manner without the owner's consent, notwithstanding the= monopoly granted to the owner.  To determine whether fair use has been= made of copyrighted material, the nature and objects of the selections made= , the quantity and value of material used and extent to which the use may di= minish the value of the original work must be considered;  Fair use inv= olves a balancing process by which a complex of variables determine whether = other interests should override the rights of creators.

=80  Copyright Act § 107 determinations
1.  the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use i= s of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
2   the nature of the CR work:  Is it published or not? (pre-publication exploitation of a work more serious than post-pub.)
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to = the CR work as a whole
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of t= he CR work

=80  Proof of infringement requires proof that the use is harmful or tha= t if it would become widespread that it would adversely affect the market fo= r the CR work (use may suppress but not supplant the market for the CR work)=

Lastly, common suggests says that if Bozo the clown thinks that he has a va= lid copyright infringement claim, he may file it, whether or not it has any = legal validity.  

Based on what I have read, the handouts fall under “fair use”: =  they are educational in purpose, are not “published” beyon= d the meeting, are used in small excerpts, and have little effect on the mar= ket for the various works or images cited.  (My opinion only!!)

Note to Bruce:  “Fairy use” is an entirely different legal= area! ;~).

Hope this helps,


--
Steve Prosser
Modeling Altoona and Environs

   _____________________________________________=86\
  /           &= nbsp;            = ; =3DALTOONA=3D           = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;|
 /            &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      |
 \      HOME OF THE WORLD’S LARGEST RAI= LROAD SHOPS        |   
  \____________________________________________    = ;|
            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;   \  |
            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;     \|
            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;         
--

 --B_3131548203_131454-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:08:08 -0500 From: Gregory Vlassopoulos Jr Subject: RE: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_1Oz188yP9+2us9jfdOfHMw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT freedom of speech. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Derrick J Brashear Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 6:12 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: RE: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Gregory Vlassopoulos Jr wrote: > Besides, who is willing to pay for copy cost. To copy photos, you will need > to copy scanned images at a high resolution which cost money. Some people > are complaining about the $69/night rate at the hotel. They found it on the > net for $64/night. Only to search relentlessly and zero in at $54/night. Sure, if by "relentlessly" you mean "first thing I tried". > Now who is willing to pay the added cost for quality copies when we are > quarrelling over $15. I paid a more than a hundred for a copy of a document which I'll be scanning and distributing free, during the month of March. You're drawing blanket conclusions. Don't. Or, if you insist on it, draw accurate ones, at least. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. --Boundary_(ID_1Oz188yP9+2us9jfdOfHMw) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

freedom of speech. 

-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Derrick J
Brashear
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 6:12 PM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: RE: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations


On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Gregory Vlassopoulos Jr wrote:

> Besides, who is willing to pay for copy cost.  To copy photos, you will need
> to copy scanned images at a high resolution which cost money.  Some people
> are complaining about the $69/night rate at the hotel.  They found it on the
> net for $64/night.  Only to search relentlessly and zero in at $54/night.

Sure, if by "relentlessly" you mean "first thing I tried".

> Now who is willing to pay the added cost for quality copies when we are
> quarrelling over $15.

I paid a more than a hundred for a copy of a document which I'll be
scanning and distributing free, during the month of March.

You're drawing blanket conclusions. Don't. Or, if you insist on it, draw
accurate ones, at least.

-D


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--Boundary_(ID_1Oz188yP9+2us9jfdOfHMw)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:21:12 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Gregory Vlassopoulos Jr wrote: > freedom of speech. Yup, you're free to be wrong. ;-) We're wandering into the "not useful discussion" point, so I'll shut up. There's not really anything I can say beyond "the first match I saw was the cheapest, so I took it" My comment was meant to be a poke, not stifling, and I hope you took it in the spirit it was offered. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Weinschenker" Subject: [PRR] Passenger Equipment Color Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:46:19 -0500 I am modeling PRR wooden passenger equipment of the 1880s era. What was the shade of tuscan red used? Was it light, dark, maroon-ish? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, JIM ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:05:18 EST Subject: [PRR] Program won't open --part1_f9.2b605f5e.2bb3b65e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have tried every which way I can think of but I can't get the Annual Meeting program to open. The hourglass just sits there and sits there.... BTW, I have the same problem with several other .pdf files contained on the Keystone Crossing site. HELP!! Chris Baker #1918 --part1_f9.2b605f5e.2bb3b65e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have tried every which way I can think of but I can'= t get the Annual Meeting program to open.  The hourglass just sits ther= e and sits there....

BTW, I have the same problem with several other .pdf files contained on the=20= Keystone Crossing site.  HELP!!

Chris Baker  #1918 --part1_f9.2b605f5e.2bb3b65e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:26:55 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Program won't open --part1_187.176ae11f.2bb3bb6f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris & List. Same on my computer. Opens as far as Adobe Acrobat and wants to start and thats where it stops. Pat McKinney --part1_187.176ae11f.2bb3bb6f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris & List.
         Same on my computer. Opens=20= as far as Adobe Acrobat and wants to start and thats where it stops.

Pat McKinney --part1_187.176ae11f.2bb3bb6f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:29:39 -0500 From: Gregory Vlassopoulos Jr Subject: RE: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations Your poke was used to illuminate the fact that most non for profit organization members take the cheapest route. Someone mentioned about donating the saved $15 from the room rental to the society. We will see if that person is going to be first in line. Most people talk, but do not act. It truely doesn't matter because if everyone logs on to get the very low rate, the un-blocked hotel rooms will sell out and the rooms reserved by PRRTHS will be the only ones available. If you call the hotel and do not mention you are to receive the $69 rate, you will be quoted $99. With all said and done, the society will pay in the long run for not fulfilling its contractual obligations. PRRTHS would never lodge the amount of rooms internet company's can. The event is expected to pay for itself, which is why the registration fee is far from expensive. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Derrick J Brashear Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 8:21 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: RE: [PRR] re: Handouts from Convention Presentations On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Gregory Vlassopoulos Jr wrote: > freedom of speech. Yup, you're free to be wrong. ;-) We're wandering into the "not useful discussion" point, so I'll shut up. There's not really anything I can say beyond "the first match I saw was the cheapest, so I took it" My comment was meant to be a poke, not stifling, and I hope you took it in the spirit it was offered. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:36:39 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Program won't open On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 PKMac101@aol.com wrote: > Chris & List. > Same on my computer. Opens as far as Adobe Acrobat and wants to > start and thats where it stops. If you right click on the PDF link and save to disk, then open it from the local disk in acrobat, does that help? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Viv Brice" Subject: FW: [PRR] B&O Museum Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 16:36:02 +1100 Try www.borail.org rather than .com Regards, Viv Brice An SPF from 'Down Under' -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 1:35 am To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] B&O Museum borail.com has picture of the damage to the roundhouse and the clean up to date if anyone is interested in seeing them. Nothing PRR is in the pictures that I saw as would be expected inside the roundhouse. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 06:25:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Program won't open From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3131591145_70174856 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/26/03 9:05 PM, "Chrisandbelton2@aol.com" wrote: > I have tried every which way I can think of but I can't get the Annual Me= eting > program to open. The hourglass just sits there and sits there.... >=20 > BTW, I have the same problem with several other .pdf files contained on t= he > Keystone Crossing site. HELP!! >=20 >=20 What version of Acrobat are you using? Version 5.x has been out for quite some time and most of the recent files posted to Keystone Crossings will require version 5.x. Secondly, are you double-clicking on the icon of the file to open it? Have you tried dragging the icon of the file over the application icon (just asking)? Or have you tried in the application opening the file via the menu =B3Open=B2 (again, just asking)? Before announcing a post, I always do the download from a remote location and test. I had no problem. But the machine I use is running MacOS X (a flavor of UNIX).=20 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3131591145_70174856 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] Program won't open On 3/26/03 9:05 PM, "Chrisandbelton2@aol.com"= ; <Chrisandbelton2@aol.com> wrote:

I have tried every whi= ch way I can think of but I can't get the Annual Meeting program to open. &n= bsp;The hourglass just sits there and sits there....

BTW, I have the same problem with several other .pdf files contained on the= Keystone Crossing site.  HELP!!


What version of Acrobat are you using? V= ersion 5.x has been out for quite some time and most of the recent files pos= ted to Keystone Crossings will require version 5.x.

Secondly, are you double-clicking on the icon of the file to open it? Have = you tried dragging the icon of the file over the application icon (just aski= ng)? Or have you tried in the application opening the file via the menu R= 20;Open” (again, just asking)?

Before announcing a post, I always do the download from a remote location a= nd test. I had no problem. But the machine I use is running MacOS X (a flavo= r of UNIX).
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com  &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are
providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit
our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------
 --B_3131591145_70174856-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 06:27:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Program won't open From: Jerry Britton On 3/26/03 9:36 PM, "Derrick J Brashear" wrote: > On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 PKMac101@aol.com wrote: > >> Chris & List. >> Same on my computer. Opens as far as Adobe Acrobat and wants to >> start and thats where it stops. > > If you right click on the PDF link and save to disk, then open it from the > local disk in acrobat, does that help? > Good point. The site used to allow "byte serving" so you could view directly in your browser. I turned that off several months ago. Your browser should now default to saving to disk, but check to make sure. Maybe it's loading the browser plug-in and then the server isn't sending the file. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] PRSL N6B Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 14:04:53 +0000 I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last night and noted they had an N6B in use into the early 60's. There is also a color picture of it. Does this seem feasable in light of the phasing out of the class on the PRR much earlier? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL N6B Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:28:30 -0500 The photo in question was taken at Absecon NJ on a work train powered by a Burro Crane. I don't have the book here at work so I don't remember the date or the car number. The Cabin is a PRR car, not PRSL. The car, and I suspect the crane also, were on loan from the Pennsy for track maintenance. PRSL owned neither piece of equipment. I remember seeing this consist as well as the Burro at other places from time to time, and yes it would have been the early 60's. I'll try to find more info if you are interested. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:05 AM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRSL N6B I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last night and noted they had an N6B in use into the early 60's. There is also a color picture of it. Does this seem feasable in light of the phasing out of the class on the PRR much earlier? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. **************************************************************************** This e-mail and any attachment may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or subject to copyright belonging to Conectiv or its subsidiaries (Conectiv). This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the person to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Conectiv policy expressly prohibits employees from making Defamatory or offensive statements and infringing any copyright or any other legal right by email communications. Conectiv will not accept any liability in respect of such communications. The employee responsible will be personally liable for any damages or other liability so arising. **************************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:00:28 -0500 I don't understand this There were still a couple of N6b's in use in Baltimore when I worked there in 1966-1967. They were retired during that period and the bodies sold or given to the Boy Scouts. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:04 AM Subject: [PRR] PRSL N6B > I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last night and noted they had an N6B in > use into the early 60's. There is also a color picture of it. Does this seem > feasable in light of the phasing out of the class on the PRR much earlier? > Thanks. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:12:14 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files From: Jerry Britton There have been numerous reports over the past 24 hours of folks not being able to open PDF files from the Keystone Crossings web site. I had asked for people to report what o/s they were on and what version of Acrobat they were using. Of those that have reported, 100% have been using Acrobat 3.x. That's the problem! Acrobat Reader, which is a FREE download, is up to version 5.x. This version has been out for well over a year now. Any new files I create and post are done created with version 5, though many (depending on their content) are actually usable by a version 4 Reader. Please, you need to upgrade! If anyone has problems opening these files AND they are on Acrobat 5.x, please report it to me and let me know what o/s you are using. Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:20:37 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B >I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last night and noted they had an >N6B in >use into the early 60's. There is also a color picture of it. Does this seem >feasable in light of the phasing out of the class on the PRR much earlier? >Thanks. Um...what do you mean by "phasing out of the class so much earlier"? In 1957, the most common cabin car class on the PRR was the N6B...I realize that as the next decade dawned, these cars did get phased out fairly quickly, but many were moved to work service, or branch service for a nubmer of years more. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL N6B Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:34:14 -0500 O.K. Guys, I think I might have solved the discrepancy. Prior to 1950 the PRSL's cabin car fleet was comprised of class ND 4-wheel bobbers. Some were built for the WJ&S and some were acquired from the PRR for the PRSL. This aging fleet was to be replaced in 1950 by new N8 class cabins to be built at Altoona for the PRSL. The PRSL didn't have enough money to complete the deal so the PRR modernized a bunch of N5's and sold them to the PRSL instead. At that point the fleet of PRSL ND Cabins began to disappear rather quickly. The last one could quite possibly have lasted until 1954. Meanwhile the N6B's continued to soldier on for the PRR until the mid to late 60's at least. The PRSL did not own any N6B's, they were all ND's. I hope this alleviates the confusion. The PRSL ND's did disappear early. The PRR N6B's stayed around for quite a while. Hope this helps. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:45 AM To: Burnley, Charles Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL N6B This contradicts what I was told here earlier when I questioned the use of N6's. Somebody said that they were all gone in the early 50's and that there was only one on the roster after 1954. Nobody disputed the statement so I assumed it was correct. I am glad to know that they were still prevalent as I have three of the Quality Craft kits yet to build. > The photo in question was taken at Absecon NJ on a work train powered by a > Burro Crane. I don't have the book here at work so I don't remember the date > or the car number. The Cabin is a PRR car, not PRSL. The car, and I suspect > the crane also, were on loan from the Pennsy for track maintenance. PRSL > owned neither piece of equipment. I remember seeing this consist as well as > the Burro at other places from time to time, and yes it would have been the > early 60's. > I'll try to find more info if you are interested. > > Buzz > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > **************************************************************************** > This e-mail and any attachment may contain information that is proprietary, > privileged, confidential or subject to copyright belonging to Conectiv or > its subsidiaries (Conectiv). This e-mail is intended solely for the use of > the person to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient > of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, > copying or other action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments > to this e-mail is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this > e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete > the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Conectiv policy > expressly prohibits employees from making Defamatory or offensive statements > and infringing any copyright or any other legal right by email > communications. Conectiv will not accept any liability in respect of such > communications. The employee responsible will be personally liable for any > damages or other liability so arising. > **************************************************************************** > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. **************************************************************************** This e-mail and any attachment may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or subject to copyright belonging to Conectiv or its subsidiaries (Conectiv). This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the person to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Conectiv policy expressly prohibits employees from making Defamatory or offensive statements and infringing any copyright or any other legal right by email communications. Conectiv will not accept any liability in respect of such communications. The employee responsible will be personally liable for any damages or other liability so arising. **************************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Looking for Greg Stone Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:38:04 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2F45D.B618A700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Copyright IssuesWould Greg Stone please contact me off list? Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2F45D.B618A700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Copyright Issues
Would Greg Stone please contact me off = list?
 
Bill Bigler
Big Flats NY
Modeling PRR = Renovo=20 &
     Williamsport = WWII
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2F45D.B618A700-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:38:04 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Looking for Greg Stone Copyright IssuesWould Greg Stone please contact me off list? Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! 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Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL N6B Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 14:16:56 -0600 From: "Bill Volkmer" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2F49D.D0C8DDC4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V2UgaGFkIGEgYnVuY2ggb2YgdGhlbSBpbiBDaGljYWdvIGluIHRyYW5zZmVyIHNlcnZpY2UgYW5k IHRoZXkgd2VyZSBhbHdheXMgY2FsbGVkICJNYWUgV2VzdCBDYWJpbnMiLiAgSSBzZWVtIGFsc28g dG8gcmVjYWxsIHRoYXQgbW9zdCBoYWQgYmVlbiByZS1zaGVhdGhlZCBpbiBwbHl3b29kLg0KIA0K V0RWDQoNCgktLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLSANCglGcm9tOiBCcnVjZSBGLiBTbWl0 aCBbbWFpbHRvOnNtaXRoYmZAbWFpbC5hdWJ1cm4uZWR1XSANCglTZW50OiBUaHUgMy8yNy8yMDAz IDk6MjAgQU0gDQoJVG86IHByci10YWxrQGRzb3AuY29tIA0KCUNjOiANCglTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTog W1BSUl0gUFJTTCBONkINCgkNCgkNCg0KCT5JIHdhcyByZWFkaW5nIFN0cm91cCdzIGJvb2sgb24g dGhlIFBSU0wgbGFzdCBuaWdodCBhbmQgbm90ZWQgdGhleSBoYWQgYW4NCgk+TjZCIGluDQoJPnVz ZSBpbnRvIHRoZSBlYXJseSA2MCdzLiBUaGVyZSBpcyBhbHNvIGEgY29sb3IgcGljdHVyZSBvZiBp dC4gIERvZXMgdGhpcyBzZWVtDQoJPmZlYXNhYmxlIGluIGxpZ2h0IG9mIHRoZSBwaGFzaW5nIG91 dCBvZiB0aGUgY2xhc3Mgb24gdGhlIFBSUiBtdWNoIGVhcmxpZXI/DQoJPlRoYW5rcy4NCgkNCglV bS4uLndoYXQgZG8geW91IG1lYW4gYnkgInBoYXNpbmcgb3V0IG9mIHRoZSBjbGFzcyBzbyBtdWNo IGVhcmxpZXIiPyAgSW4NCgkxOTU3LCB0aGUgbW9zdCBjb21tb24gY2FiaW4gY2FyIGNsYXNzIG9u IHRoZSBQUlIgd2FzIHRoZSBONkIuLi5JIHJlYWxpemUNCgl0aGF0IGFzIHRoZSBuZXh0IGRlY2Fk ZSBkYXduZWQsIHRoZXNlIGNhcnMgZGlkIGdldCBwaGFzZWQgb3V0IGZhaXJseQ0KCXF1aWNrbHks IGJ1dCBtYW55IHdlcmUgbW92ZWQgdG8gd29yayBzZXJ2aWNlLCBvciBicmFuY2ggc2VydmljZSBm b3IgYQ0KCW51Ym1lciBvZiB5ZWFycyBtb3JlLg0KCQ0KCUhhcHB5IFJhaWxzDQoJQnJ1Y2UNCgkN CglCcnVjZSBGLiBTbWl0aCBWLk0uRC4sIFBoLkQuDQoJU2NvdHQtUml0Y2hleSBSZXNlYXJjaCBD ZW50ZXINCgkzMzQtODQ0LTU1ODcsIDMzNC04NDQtNTg1MCAoZmF4KQ0KCWh0dHA6Ly93d3cudmV0 bWVkLmF1YnVybi5lZHUvfnNtaXRoYmYvDQoJDQoJIkJlZXIgaXMgcHJvb2YgdGhhdCBHb2QgbG92 ZXMgdXMgYW5kIHdhbnRzIHVzIHRvIGJlIGhhcHB5IiAtIEJlbmphbWluIEZyYW5rbGluDQoJICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgX18NCgkgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC8g IFwNCgkgIF9fPCstLSs+X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX1xfXy9fX18gICBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCgkgfC0gX19fX19fLyBPICAgICAgICBPIFxfX19fX19fIC18 IHwgX18gIF9fICBfXyAgX18gIF9fICBfXyAgX18gIF9fICBfXyB8DQoJIHwgLyA0OTk5ICBQRU5O U1lMVkFOSUEgICA0OTk5IFwgfCB8fF9ffHxfX3x8X198fF9ffHxfX3x8X198fF9ffHxfX3x8X198 fA0KCSB8L19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXHxffF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX3wNCgkgfCBPLS1PICAgICBcMCAgMCAgMCAgMC8gICAgTy0tTyB8 ICAgMC0wLTAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAwLTAtMA0KCQ0KCQ0KCQ0KCS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tDQoJRm9yIGFzc2lzdGFuY2Ugd2l0aCB0aGlzIGxpc3QsIHBsZWFzZSB2aXNpdCBodHRw Oi8vbGlzdHMuZHNvcC5jb20uDQoJDQoNCg== ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2F49D.D0C8DDC4 Content-Type: text/html; 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From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:29:05 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03E4_01C2F475.9A0A1C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] PRSL N6BBill: After they were sheathed in plywood, were they completely smooth sided = or was the plywood grooved? And, what year would this be? Lew ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Volkmer=20 To: Bruce F. Smith ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL N6B We had a bunch of them in Chicago in transfer service and they were = always called "Mae West Cabins". I seem also to recall that most had = been re-sheathed in plywood. WDV -----Original Message-----=20 From: Bruce F. Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu]=20 Sent: Thu 3/27/2003 9:20 AM=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Cc:=20 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B >I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last night and noted they = had an >N6B in >use into the early 60's. There is also a color picture of it. Does = this seem >feasable in light of the phasing out of the class on the PRR much = earlier? >Thanks. Um...what do you mean by "phasing out of the class so much earlier"? = In 1957, the most common cabin car class on the PRR was the N6B...I = realize that as the next decade dawned, these cars did get phased out fairly quickly, but many were moved to work service, or branch service for = a nubmer of years more. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - = Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ = ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ = __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | = ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| = |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 = 0-0-0 = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_03E4_01C2F475.9A0A1C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B
Bill:
 
After they were sheathed in plywood, = were they=20 completely smooth sided or was the plywood grooved?  And, what year = would=20 this be?
 
Lew
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill Volkmer
To: Bruce F. Smith ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 = 3:16=20 PM
Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL = N6B

We had a bunch of them in Chicago in transfer service and they = were=20 always called "Mae West Cabins".  I seem also to recall that most = had=20 been re-sheathed in plywood.
 
WDV
-----Original Message-----
From: = Bruce F. Smith=20 [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu]
Sent: Thu 3/27/2003 9:20 = AM=20
To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20
Cc:
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL = N6B

>I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last = night and=20 noted they had an
>N6B in
>use into the early 60's. = There is=20 also a color picture of it.  Does this seem
>feasable in = light of=20 the phasing out of the class on the PRR much=20 earlier?
>Thanks.

Um...what do you mean by "phasing out = of the=20 class so much earlier"?  In
1957, the most common cabin car = class on=20 the PRR was the N6B...I realize
that as the next decade dawned, = these=20 cars did get phased out fairly
quickly, but many were moved to = work=20 service, or branch service for a
nubmer of years = more.

Happy=20 Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey = Research=20 Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.= edu/~smithbf/

"Beer=20 is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 = Franklin
          &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;   =20 = __
           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp; =20 /  \
  = __<+--+>________________\__/___  =20 ____________________________________
 |- ______/=20 O        O \_______ -| | __  = __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __=20 |
 | / 4999  PENNSYLVANIA   4999 \ |=20 = ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
 |/_______________________= ______\|_|____________________________________|
 |=20 O--O     \0  0  0  = 0/   =20 O--O |  =20 = 0-0-0           &n= bsp;           =20 = 0-0-0



----------------------------------------------------= -------------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /BLOCKQUOTE>
------=_NextPart_000_03E4_01C2F475.9A0A1C20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:40:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B Lew, There is a great shot of a Plywood N6b in the Color Guide #3. Page 100. N6b #980866. It appears you can see the Plywood seams only. No other grooves present to represent the old tounge and groove. They even did the end too. Nice variation that could be built from a Gloor Craft kit....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:42:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B Lew, Whoops forgot the date, Plywood N6b photo was taken in 1961 on the Grand Rapids Branch......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:56:07 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files --part1_11b.20336607.2bb4e997_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry. I am using the version 5 and it will not completely open it. It starts but then just does nothing. Pat --part1_11b.20336607.2bb4e997_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry.
          I am using the versio= n 5 and it will not completely open it. It starts but then just does nothing= .

Pat --part1_11b.20336607.2bb4e997_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:11:35 -0500 From: Bill Subject: [PRR] 2003 PRRT&HS Convention registration update Phil Ritter has asked me to pass this on to all interested parties. Registration for the PRRT&HS Convention will be accepted only if mailed to the Wayne, PA P.O. Box as directed. Registrations will not be accepted at this weekend's Philadelphia Chapter meeting. Please make sure you mark PRRT&HS Convention Registration on the envelope to distinguish it from other Chapter mail. Please remember to send separate checks for individual field trips. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:42:43 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files --part1_19e.124b8674.2bb4f483_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry, My O/S is Windows XP and I have Acrobat Reader 5.0 but I am still unable to open many of your pdf files. Chris Baker --part1_19e.124b8674.2bb4f483_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry,

My O/S is Windows XP and I have Acrobat Reader 5.0 but I am still unable to=20= open many of your pdf files.

Chris Baker --part1_19e.124b8674.2bb4f483_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:08:56 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files --part1_192.17f300dd.2bb4faa8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was finally able to successfully open the Annual Meeting program and it was actually quite fast. I right-clicked in the file listing in Jerry's site and opened it in another window. I had tried that before but got all hung up. It worked quite well this evening for some reason... I'm going to try some other files I've been wanting to look at but had no prior success in opening them. Chris Baker --part1_192.17f300dd.2bb4faa8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was finally able to successfully open the Annual Mee= ting program and it was actually quite fast.  I right-clicked in the fi= le listing in Jerry's site and opened it in another window.  I had trie= d that before but got all hung up.  It worked quite well this evening f= or some reason...  I'm going to try some other files I've been wanting=20= to look at but had no prior success in opening them.

Chris Baker --part1_192.17f300dd.2bb4faa8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:34:13 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2F4A0.3A954140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry: My O/S is Windows ME and I have Acrobat Reader 5.0 and I am not able to = open your pdf files. Lew ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2F4A0.3A954140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Jerry:
 
My O/S is Windows ME and I have = Acrobat Reader=20 5.0 and I am not able to open your pdf files.
 
Lew


------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2F4A0.3A954140-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:00:57 -0500 Well, don't forget, what the PRR didn't want or wanted to squeeze the last mile of service out, it usually sent the stuff to the branches and the P-RSL. I used to live on the Grenloch Branch in Mt. Ephraim, and cannot recall seeing an N6B on any consists. They usually ran an N5. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:04 AM Subject: [PRR] PRSL N6B > I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last night and noted they had an N6B in > use into the early 60's. There is also a color picture of it. Does this seem > feasable in light of the phasing out of the class on the PRR much earlier? > Thanks. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:20:47 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2F4A6.BBE9DED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Howdy All: For you windows users  you may need to: 1. check to make sure that if you have a firewall  that it is allowing active x to execute. 2. check to make sure that your IE has Axtive X turned on. 3. make sure that the .pdf file type is directed to Adobe in the file types of Folder options 4. load the latest Adobe reader General guide lines only Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2F4A6.BBE9DED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ho= wdy All:

Fo= r you windows users – you may need = to:

  1. ch= eck to make sure that if you have a firewall – that it is = allowing active x to execute.
  2. ch= eck to make sure that your IE has Axtive X turned = on.
  3. ma= ke sure that the .pdf file type is directed to Adobe in the = “file types” of Folder options
  4. lo= ad the latest Adobe reader…

Ge= neral guide lines only…

 

 

Cos

=

Wayne S. = Betty

Cos Communications, Inc.

=

Small = business IT services.

=

 

Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road

=

NMRA, = MER, Susquehanna Div, 11

=

NHRS, = Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061

=

http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm

at the west end of the PRR electrified = zone

=

<= font color=3Dblack> <= /p>

 <= /p>

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2F4A6.BBE9DED0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:07:34 -0500 From: TWRimer@uss.com Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/28/03 PRR N6 Cabin The Sligo Branch, which was off of the Low Grade Line about 70 miles north of Pittsburgh, used an N6b thru 1968 and into the Penn Central era. I don't ever remember seeing anything but an N6 used on this 10 mile branchline. Tom Rimer twr2244@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:06:51 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files Just an aside: When objects (pages, imbedded photos, links, etc.) I "click "won't open for me in Netscape/Win98, it's usually a local problem...meaning my computer. It is as if the available "space" or whatever has had enough and won't accept anything else. Occasional I can get around it by right clicking and opening a completely new window as you suggest. Usually I just close down, reboot and restart and all is well. If you use a system resources monitor or whatever Microsoft calls it, you will note that you are running "low" when this happens. Just like the discussions bout bad steaming coal? (mandatory PRR item.) Good luck, Jim McDaniel, who doesn't know much about computer innards in Delmarva, but has found lots of cheat ways to get around stuff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL N6B Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:14:08 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C2F502.02657B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was there in 1963. I don't remember any grooves in the plywood. Just butted up against one another. -----Original Message----- From: Lewis J. Matt PhD [mailto:lmatt@alltel.net] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:29 PM To: Bill Volkmer; Bruce F. Smith; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B Bill: After they were sheathed in plywood, were they completely smooth sided or was the plywood grooved? And, what year would this be? Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Volkmer To: Bruce F. Smith ; prr-talk@dsop.com Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL N6B We had a bunch of them in Chicago in transfer service and they were always called "Mae West Cabins". I seem also to recall that most had been re-sheathed in plywood. WDV -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Thu 3/27/2003 9:20 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Cc: Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B >I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last night and noted they had an >N6B in >use into the early 60's. There is also a color picture of it. Does this seem >feasable in light of the phasing out of the class on the PRR much earlier? >Thanks. Um...what do you mean by "phasing out of the class so much earlier"? In 1957, the most common cabin car class on the PRR was the N6B...I realize that as the next decade dawned, these cars did get phased out fairly quickly, but many were moved to work service, or branch service for a nubmer of years more. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C2F502.02657B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I was=20 there in 1963.  I don't remember any grooves in the plywood. Just = butted up=20 against one another.
-----Original Message-----
From: = Lewis J. Matt=20 PhD [mailto:lmatt@alltel.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 27, = 2003 3:29=20 PM
To: Bill Volkmer; Bruce F. Smith;=20 prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL = N6B

Bill:
 
After they were sheathed in plywood, = were they=20 completely smooth sided or was the plywood grooved?  And, what = year would=20 this be?
 
Lew
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill Volkmer
To: Bruce F. Smith ; prr-talk@dsop.com
Sent: Thursday, March 27, = 2003 3:16=20 PM
Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL = N6B

We had a bunch of them in Chicago in transfer service and they = were=20 always called "Mae West Cabins".  I seem also to recall that = most had=20 been re-sheathed in plywood.
 
WDV
-----Original Message-----
From: = Bruce F.=20 Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu]
Sent: Thu = 3/27/2003 9:20=20 AM
To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20
Cc:
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL = N6B

>I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last = night and=20 noted they had an
>N6B in
>use into the early 60's. = There is=20 also a color picture of it.  Does this seem
>feasable = in light=20 of the phasing out of the class on the PRR much=20 earlier?
>Thanks.

Um...what do you mean by "phasing = out of=20 the class so much earlier"?  In
1957, the most common = cabin car=20 class on the PRR was the N6B...I realize
that as the next = decade=20 dawned, these cars did get phased out fairly
quickly, but many = were=20 moved to work service, or branch service for a
nubmer of years=20 more.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D.,=20 Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, = 334-844-5850=20 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.= edu/~smithbf/

"Beer=20 is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 = Franklin
          &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;   =20 = __
           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp; =20 /  \
  = __<+--+>________________\__/___  =20 ____________________________________
 |- ______/=20 O        O \_______ -| | = __ =20 __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __=20 |
 | / 4999  PENNSYLVANIA   4999 \ |=20 = ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
 |/_______________________= ______\|_|____________________________________|
 |=20 O--O     \0  0  0  = 0/   =20 O--O |  =20 = 0-0-0           &n= bsp;           =20 = 0-0-0



----------------------------------------------------= -------------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /BLOCKQUOTE>
------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C2F502.02657B20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Chicago Terminal Chapter PRRT&HS meeting Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:53:36 +0000 This is a reminder to anyone who will be in the Chicago area on Saturday 4/5/03 that we will be having our third ever meeting at 2:00PM in the Pullman Visitors Center at 11141 S. Cottage Grove Ave. in Chicago. If you would like to attend please e mail me and I will be happy to give you further information or include you in our e mail mailing list. We are not yet an official chapter of the PRRT&HS but we are now about 25 strong after only two meetings. I expect that we will be official within four to six months and have a great group of very knowledgable people who have forgotten more than I will ever know about the PRR. Vistors are welcome any time. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: paul lower Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/28/03 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:11:23 -0500 At Friday, 28 March 2003, you wrote:I TOLD YOU 2 WEEKS AGO TO STOP SENDING ME THIS STUFF, I USED THE E-MAIL ADDRESS STATED IN SIGN E- MAIL. HOPE YOU GET THE MESSAGE. >PRR-Talk Digest - Friday, March 28, 2003 > > Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B > by "Lewis J. Matt PhD" > Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B > by "Gary Mittner" > Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B > by "Gary Mittner" > Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files > by > 2003 PRRT&HS Convention registration update > by "Bill" > Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files > by > Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files > by > Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files > by "Lewis J. Matt PhD" > Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B > by "Tom Mahon" > RE: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files > by "Wayne S. Betty" > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B >From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:29:05 -0500 > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_03E4_01C2F475.9A0A1C20 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="UTF-8" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Re: [PRR] PRSL N6BBill: > >After they were sheathed in plywood, were they completely smooth sided = >or was the plywood grooved? And, what year would this be? > >Lew > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Bill Volkmer=20 > To: Bruce F. Smith ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20 > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:16 PM > Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL N6B > > We had a bunch of them in Chicago in transfer service and they were = >always called "Mae West Cabins". I seem also to recall that most had = >been re-sheathed in plywood. > > WDV > -----Original Message-----=20 > From: Bruce F. Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu]=20 > Sent: Thu 3/27/2003 9:20 AM=20 > To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 > Cc:=20 > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B > > >I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last night and noted they = >had an > >N6B in > >use into the early 60's. There is also a color picture of it. Does = >this seem > >feasable in light of the phasing out of the class on the PRR much = >earlier? > >Thanks. > > Um...what do you mean by "phasing out of the class so much earlier"? = > In > 1957, the most common cabin car class on the PRR was the N6B...I = >realize > that as the next decade dawned, these cars did get phased out fairly > quickly, but many were moved to work service, or branch service for = >a > nubmer of years more. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - = >Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ = >____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ = >__ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | = >||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > = >|/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 = >0-0-0 > > = >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > >------=_NextPart_000_03E4_01C2F475.9A0A1C20 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="UTF-8" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > >Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B > > > > > >
Bill:
>
 
>
After they were sheathed in plywood, = >were they=20 >completely smooth sided or was the plywood grooved?  And, what year = >would=20 >this be?
>
 
>
Lew
>
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = >BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> >
----- Original Message -----
> style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = >black">From:=20 > href=3D"mailto:bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com">Bill Volkmer >
To: title=3Dsmithbf@mail.auburn.edu=20 > href=3D"mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu">Bruce F. Smith ; title=3Dprr-talk@dsop.com = >href=3D"mailto:prr-talk@dsop.com">prr-talk@dsop.com=20 >
>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 = >3:16=20 > > PM
>
Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL = >N6B
>

>
We had a bunch of them in Chicago in transfer service and they = >were=20 > always called "Mae West Cabins".  I seem also to recall that most = >had=20 > been re-sheathed in plywood.
>
 
>
WDV
>
>
-----Original Message-----
From: = >Bruce F. Smith=20 > [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu]
Sent: Thu 3/27/2003 9:20 = >AM=20 >
To: href=3D"mailto:prr-talk@dsop.com">prr-talk@dsop.com=20 >
Cc:
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL = >N6B

>

>I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last = >night and=20 > noted they had an
>N6B in
>use into the early 60's. = >There is=20 > also a color picture of it.  Does this seem
>feasable in = >light of=20 > the phasing out of the class on the PRR much=20 > earlier?
>Thanks.

Um...what do you mean by "phasing out = >of the=20 > class so much earlier"?  In
1957, the most common cabin car = >class on=20 > the PRR was the N6B...I realize
that as the next decade dawned, = >these=20 > cars did get phased out fairly
quickly, but many were moved to = >work=20 > service, or branch service for a
nubmer of years = >more.

Happy=20 > Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott- Ritchey = >Research=20 > Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
= >href=3D"http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/">http://www.vetmed. auburn.= >edu/~smithbf/

"Beer=20 > is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 > = >Franklin
           &= >nbsp;            &n= >bsp;   =20 > = >__
            &= >nbsp;            &n= >bsp; =20 > /  \
  = >__<+--+>________________\__/___  =20 > ____________________________________
 |- ______/=20 > O        O \_______ -| | __  = > > __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __=20 > |
 | / 4999  PENNSYLVANIA   4999 \ |=20 > = >||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
 |/_______________________= >______\|_|____________________________________|
 |=20 > O--O     \0  0  0  = >0/   =20 > O--O |  =20 > = >0-0-0            &n= >bsp;            =20 > = >0-0-0



------------------------------------------- ---------= >-------------------
For=20 > assistance with this list, please visit = >href=3D"http://lists.dsop.com">http://lists.dsop.com.

<= >/BLOCKQUOTE>
> >------=_NextPart_000_03E4_01C2F475.9A0A1C20-- > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B >From: "Gary Mittner" >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:40:03 -0500 (EST) > >Lew, > > There is a great shot of a Plywood N6b in the Color Guide #3. Page >100. N6b #980866. It appears you can see the Plywood seams only. No >other grooves present to represent the old tounge and groove. They even >did the end too. Nice variation that could be built from a Gloor Craft >kit....Gary > >Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art >Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > >PRR Loco Pics: >http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > >& > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html >and...... > >PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B >From: "Gary Mittner" >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:42:03 -0500 (EST) > >Lew, > > Whoops forgot the date, Plywood N6b photo was taken in 1961 on the >Grand Rapids Branch......Gary > >Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art >Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > >PRR Loco Pics: >http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > >& > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html >and...... > >PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files >From: >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:56:07 EST > >--part1_11b.20336607.2bb4e997_boundary >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Jerry. > I am using the version 5 and it will not completely open it. It >starts but then just does nothing. > >Pat > >--part1_11b.20336607.2bb4e997_boundary >Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Jerry.
>          I am using the versio= >n 5 and it will not completely open it. It starts but then just does nothing= >..
>
>Pat > >--part1_11b.20336607.2bb4e997_boundary-- > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: 2003 PRRT&HS Convention registration update >From: "Bill" >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:11:35 -0500 > >Phil Ritter has asked me to pass this on to all interested parties. > >Registration for the PRRT&HS Convention will be accepted only if mailed >to the Wayne, PA P.O. Box as directed. Registrations will not be >accepted at this weekend's Philadelphia Chapter meeting. Please make >sure you mark PRRT&HS Convention Registration on the envelope to >distinguish it from other Chapter mail. Please remember to send >separate checks for individual field trips. > >Bill Morlitz > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files >From: >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:42:43 EST > >--part1_19e.124b8674.2bb4f483_boundary >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Jerry, > >My O/S is Windows XP and I have Acrobat Reader 5.0 but I am still unable to >open many of your pdf files. > >Chris Baker > >--part1_19e.124b8674.2bb4f483_boundary >Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Jerry,
>
>My O/S is Windows XP and I have Acrobat Reader 5.0 but I am still unable to=20= >open many of your pdf files.
>
>Chris Baker > >--part1_19e.124b8674.2bb4f483_boundary-- > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files >From: >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:08:56 EST > >--part1_192.17f300dd.2bb4faa8_boundary >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I was finally able to successfully open the Annual Meeting program and it was >actually quite fast. I right-clicked in the file listing in Jerry's site and >opened it in another window. I had tried that before but got all hung up. >It worked quite well this evening for some reason... I'm going to try some >other files I've been wanting to look at but had no prior success in opening >them. > >Chris Baker > >--part1_192.17f300dd.2bb4faa8_boundary >Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">I was finally able to successfully open the Annual Mee= >ting program and it was actually quite fast.  I right-clicked in the fi= >le listing in Jerry's site and opened it in another window.  I had trie= >d that before but got all hung up.  It worked quite well this evening f= >or some reason...  I'm going to try some other files I've been wanting=20= >to look at but had no prior success in opening them.
>
>Chris Baker > >--part1_192.17f300dd.2bb4faa8_boundary-- > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files >From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:34:13 -0500 > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2F4A0.3A954140 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Jerry: > >My O/S is Windows ME and I have Acrobat Reader 5.0 and I am not able to = >open your pdf files. > >Lew > >------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2F4A0.3A954140 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > >charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > > > >
size=3D2> 
>
Jerry:
>
 
>
My O/S is Windows ME and I have = >Acrobat Reader=20 >5.0 and I am not able to open your pdf files.
>
 
>
Lew
>


> >------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C2F4A0.3A954140-- > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL N6B >From: "Tom Mahon" >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:00:57 -0500 > >Well, don't forget, what the PRR didn't want or wanted to squeeze the last >mile of service out, it usually sent the stuff to the branches and the >P-RSL. I used to live on the Grenloch Branch in Mt. Ephraim, and cannot >recall seeing an N6B on any consists. They usually ran an N5. > >Tom Mahon >Merrimack, NH > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "PRR-Talk" >Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:04 AM >Subject: [PRR] PRSL N6B > >> I was reading Stroup's book on the PRSL last night and noted they had an >N6B in >> use into the early 60's. There is also a color picture of it. Does this >seem >> feasable in light of the phasing out of the class on the PRR much earlier? >> Thanks. >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- --------- >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: RE: [PRR] Keystone Crossings and PDF Files >From: "Wayne S. Betty" >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:20:47 -0500 > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2F4A6.BBE9DED0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >Howdy All: >For you windows users  you may need to: >1. check to make sure that if you have a firewall  that it is allowing >active x to execute. >2. check to make sure that your IE has Axtive X turned on. >3. make sure that the .pdf file type is directed to Adobe in the file > types of Folder options >4. load the latest Adobe reader@ >General guide lines only@ > >Cos >Wayne S. Betty >Cos Communications, Inc. >Small business IT services. > >Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road >NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 >NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 >http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm >at the west end of the PRR electrified zone > >------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2F4A6.BBE9DED0 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > >xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = >xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = >xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > > >charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >

color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: Arial'>Ho= >wdy All:

> >

color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: Arial'>Fo= >r you >windows users – you may need = >to:

> >
    >
  1. lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'> class=3DEmailStyle15> = >style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: Arial'>ch= >eck > to make sure that if you have a firewall – that it is = >allowing active x to > execute.
    2. >
  2. lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'> class=3DEmailStyle15> = >style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: Arial'>ch= >eck > to make sure that your IE has Axtive X turned = >on.
    3. >
  3. lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'> class=3DEmailStyle15> = >style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: Arial'>ma= >ke > sure that the .pdf file type is directed to Adobe in the = >“file types” of > Folder options
    4. >
  4. lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'> class=3DEmailStyle15> = >style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: Arial'>lo= >ad > the latest Adobe reader…
    5. >
> >

color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: Arial'>Ge= >neral >guide lines only…

> >

color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: Arial'>[if = >!supportEmptyParas]> 

> >

color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: Arial'>[if = >!supportEmptyParas]> 

> >

color=3Dnavy face=3D"Arial Black">Black"; >color:navy'>CosBlack">style=3D'font-family:"Arial = >Black";color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>

= > >

Black">style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black";color:navy'>Wayne S. = >Bettycolor=3Dnavy face=3D"Arial Black">Black"; >color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>

> >

Black">style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black";color:navy'>Cos >Communications, Inc.Black">style=3D'font-family:"Arial = >Black";color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>

= > >

Black">style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black";color:navy'>Small = >business IT >services.style=3D'font-family:"Arial = >Black";color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>

= > >

Black">style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black";color:navy'>!supportEmptyParas]> color=3Dnavy face=3D"Arial Black">Black"; >color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>

> >

Black">style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial = >Black";color:navy'>Lancaster & >Atlantic Rail RoadBlack">style=3D'font-family:"Arial = >Black";color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>

= > >

Black">style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black";color:navy'>NMRA, = >MER, >Susquehanna Div, 11Black">style=3D'font-family:"Arial = >Black";color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>

= > >

Black">style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black";color:navy'>NHRS, = >Lancaster >& PRRT&HS #7061Black">style=3D'font-family:"Arial = >Black";color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>

= > >

Black">style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial = >Black";color:navy'>http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htmt >color=3Dnavy face=3D"Arial Black">Black"; >color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>

> >

Black">style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: "Arial = >Black"; >color:navy'>at the west end of the PRR electrified = >zonesize=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Arial Black">style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size: >12.0pt;font-family:"Arial = >Black";color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>

= > >

Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Sanborn Insurance Maps on line Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:29:34 -0500 Does anyone know whether Sanborn Insurance Maps are available on line? I would be happy to pay for them or to pay for a subscription if the price weren't unreasonable. Several months ago, someone sent me a username and password along with a URL that accessed them, but after a week or two, they apparently found out and shut it off. Or the sender's subscription expired. Note the user name was "welcome" or "visitor" or some such. It wasn't obvious we weren't supposed to be there. I went back to the site and called the several phone numbers listed, but all swore there was not and never had ever been such a site.????? But clearly they are on line somewhere and can be accessed, if only by libraries. There must be a way for individuals to access them from home, for a price, even if only for a finite time period. Can anyone help? Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:29:34 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Sanborn Insurance Maps on line Does anyone know whether Sanborn Insurance Maps are available on line? I would be happy to pay for them or to pay for a subscription if the price weren't unreasonable. Several months ago, someone sent me a username and password along with a URL that accessed them, but after a week or two, they apparently found out and shut it off. Or the sender's subscription expired. Note the user name was "welcome" or "visitor" or some such. It wasn't obvious we weren't supposed to be there. I went back to the site and called the several phone numbers listed, but all swore there was not and never had ever been such a site.????? But clearly they are on line somewhere and can be accessed, if only by libraries. There must be a way for individuals to access them from home, for a price, even if only for a finite time period. Can anyone help? Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] A message from the President: Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:23:37 -0500 "...So severe has been the disturbance of our financial, economic and social life that it has tended at times to shake the faith of some of us in principles and policies which have guided our nation from the beginning. Let me state immediately, however, that so far as I am personally concerned, I have never for one moment doubted that we would emerge safely from this and that the lessons of it would but make for a greater and better America, with the best of our instiutions and with the best of our national principles more firmly established than ever..." "Americanism Will Win!" An Address by W. W. Atterbury At the Thirty-Fifth Anniversary Dinner of the Pennsylvania Society, held in the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, New York City, Saturday evening, December 16, 1933. General atterbury was presented with the Gold Medal of the Society. Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:47:45 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Sanborn Insurance Maps on line --part1_10d.2218d151.2bb65541_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/28/2003 4:38:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, wbigler@stny.rr.com writes: > There must be a way for individuals to > access them from home, for a price, even if only for a finite time period. > This URL sells Sanborn maps for areas of yoru choice on CD http://www.utahice.com/sanborn.htm#pricing I have not ordered, but friends who have were satisfied. Lee Rainey --part1_10d.2218d151.2bb65541_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/28/2003 4:38:02 PM Eastern Standa= rd Time, wbigler@stny.rr.com writes:


There must be a way for individ= uals to
access them from home, for a price, even if only for a finite time period.


This URL sells Sanborn maps for areas of yoru choice on CD

http://www.utahice.com/sanborn.htm#pricing

I have not ordered, but friends who have were satisfied.

Lee Rainey --part1_10d.2218d151.2bb65541_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:47:45 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Sanborn Insurance Maps on line In a message dated 3/28/2003 4:38:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, wbigler@stny.rr.com writes: > There must be a way for individuals to > access them from home, for a price, even if only for a finite time period. > This URL sells Sanborn maps for areas of yoru choice on CD http://www.utahice.com/sanborn.htm#pricing I have not ordered, but friends who have were satisfied. Lee Rainey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: Derrick J Brashear From: Derrick J Brashear Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:02:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Sanborn Insurance Maps on line On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 LeeRainey@aol.com wrote: > This URL sells Sanborn maps for areas of yoru choice on CD > > http://www.utahice.com/sanborn.htm#pricing I'm sort of amused that that pricing anchor in the page doesn't point to any! Thanks for the link, I'll keep it in mind for when I know what outside PA I might need (the library where I work has PA on microfilm) -D ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:02:51 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Sanborn Insurance Maps on line On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 LeeRainey@aol.com wrote: > This URL sells Sanborn maps for areas of yoru choice on CD > > http://www.utahice.com/sanborn.htm#pricing I'm sort of amused that that pricing anchor in the page doesn't point to any! Thanks for the link, I'll keep it in mind for when I know what outside PA I might need (the library where I work has PA on microfilm) -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:39:50 -0800 From: Steven Beals Subject: [PRR] Re: Sanborn Insurance Maps on line I can access any of the hundreds of scanned maps of California cities from home because I have a Los Angeles city library card. When I visit my mother in Indiana I have access to all the scanned maps of Indiana cities by going to the library at Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis. They allow anyone to use the public computers there without charge. My experience in these instances seems to indicate that access to online maps: a. is from or controlled by libraries b. is restricted to cities in that state c. doesn't cost anything or requires simple "membership" (i.e. library card) This likely isn't universal, but it might give you a starting point. If you're looking for maps in states other than the one you're in, you may have to travel there or obtain a library card from a major city library in that state. Using google.com and associating "Sanborn maps," "library," and the name of a major city in that state may get you somewhere toward at least knowing if they're available online for that state. I know many have been microfilmed, but don't know if all have been scanned for online distribution. I've found the microfilmed ones to be difficult to deal with because they usually are dark, or print that way, and it often costs something like 25 cents a page to print. Most libraries do have them, usually for the state in which the library is located. University libraries are more likely to have them for other states as well. Good luck! Steve Beals Los Angeles William Bigler wrote: >Does anyone know whether Sanborn Insurance Maps are available on line? I >would be happy to pay for them or to pay for a subscription if the price >weren't unreasonable. Several months ago, someone sent me a username and >password along with a URL that accessed them, but after a week or two, they >apparently found out and shut it off. Or the sender's subscription expired. >Note the user name was "welcome" or "visitor" or some such. It wasn't >obvious we weren't supposed to be there. I went back to the site and called >the several phone numbers listed, but all swore there was not and never had >ever been such a site.????? But clearly they are on line somewhere and can >be accessed, if only by libraries. There must be a way for individuals to >access them from home, for a price, even if only for a finite time period. >Can anyone help? > >Bill Bigler >Big Flats NY >Modeling PRR Renovo & >Williamsport WWII > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 00:10:23 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Hell Gate Models N Scale PRR BM70k RPO-Baggage Cars From: "Douglas Nelson" Hell Gate Models is pleased to announce the availability of another Pennsylvania Railroad head-end car with the release of our new N scale PRR BM70k RPO-baggage car kits. The new kits consist of high quality one-piece resin cast body, with rivet detail, and separate underbody. The kit includes two styles of separate doors, etched brass detail parts, separate brakewheel, American Limited diaphragms, and decals. The kits are available for immediate shipment, and may be ordered direct via our e-commerce web site or via postal mail. Our website can be found at: www.HellGateModels.com Also back in stock is our PRR B60b baggage car, now with decals and improved castings. The B60b was often interchanged with other railroads and could be seen all over the United States. Our casting is now done by Dick Billings of Fine N Scale and these are extremely high quality castings. Doug Nelson and Claus Schlund Hell Gate Models email: hellgatemodels@yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tom Kane Subject: [PRR] MR Article on Federa Street Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 15:14:58 -0800 Folks, Just received the May Model Railroader and John Wright's Federal Street layout is featured. I looks great (even better than the website!) Great work John! Tom Kane Hitachi Data Systems Consulting Systems Engineer CSC Global Account Team Phone 703-481-4273 FAX 703-471-8348 tom.kane@hds.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] MR Article on Federal Street From: "Robert Poggio" Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:06:48 -0500 (EST) Fellow Listers, I just wanted to echo Tom Kane's congratulations to John Wright and his work. I also would like to extend kudos to frequent posters Elden Gatwood and Derrick Brashear for helping John and even getting mentioned for it. Respectfully, Bob Poggio Virginia Beach _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: Derrick J Brashear From: Derrick J Brashear Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:47:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Ronald Di Orio wrote: > Anyone have any photos of facilities, locos, > industries, or any info (trackplans, whatever) on this > branch of the PRR? The branch cut off the mainline > slightly west of Latrobe PA and served the mines and > coke ovens in the towns mentioned. Thanks in advance. I forgot to mention some stuff last time. Some pictures taken along the line: http://prr.dementia.org/places/alexandria-branch/ Also, most of the line is easily visible. The main line had an old alignment on "Carney Hill" that went through a tunnel. This was just east of the Alexandria Branch. From Donohoe Road you can look south and see the extant, apparently still open tunnel. You can look north and see where the Alexandria Branch took off north. I should get some pictures here. The spot where the old mainline crossed Donohoe Road is still benched out as you ascend the hill. Anyhow, if you turn off Donohoe Road northward where the signs pointing to "Twin Lakes Park", you can follow parts of the line. You'll pass under a stone underpass under the main line. There's a spot after you pass the parking lot for the Park on your right and an entrance to the park on your left where the road used to cross the branch on (I assume) a bridge. It's been replaced with fill. Turn left at the cross street just after. On the way down the hill you'll cross the line as it goes north. Turn right at the bottom of the hill. It will run along the hillside on your right. You'll come to a "T" intersection with a chruch on your left. Turn right. The line continues along the side of the hill, eventually crossing the road and running up a creek valley to your left. I think it's the first left that isn't a dead end. If you follow that road the line runs on your left the whole way to Crabtree, where it crossed 119 and forked, one fork going to (perhaps it was Hannas Town? I should look at a map) and the other turning back across 119 to head to New Alexandria/Salemville. You can turn right off the road onto 119, then right again in the center of Crabtree at Carbone's Restaurant, but it gets harder to parallel the line for much further here headed toward New Alexandria. If you go north on 119, go actual straight (fork right off 119 where 119 takes a shallow left curve) onto Archway. You can follow this road all the way to the arch where the branch crossed 22/119 on its old alignment into New Alexandria. The road is concrete after you turn off 119 but you'll notice a small patch of asphalt which until about 2 years ago was a crossing with rails intact. The ovens on the Salemville (west) side of 119 are gone, and there's not much to see on the Dundale branch (which crossed new 22 and went back into what's now a gun club). The "main line" of the branch went north along the creek past New Alex to Andrico, embankment visible in aerial photos. The things I don't understand are: -where the line ended, exactly. I understand the mines at Andrico weren't all situated in the same spot, so I'm not sure how the line forked at the end. -what the junction of the Alexandria (to Andrico) and Dundale branches looked like. A map on "The Old Miner" site I mentioned before makes it look like there were 2 wyes, not one. I've thus far found neither an old enough track chart nor a useful detailed map, but I probably haven't tried hard enough yet. There are several other small branches scattered over western PA that I wonder similarly about. Oh to have more time. Incidentally, I think if you search pittsburghlive.com there's an article about a guy with a house at Andrico whose access to route 981 is where the Andrico branch crossed that road. Aside from the Old Miner site that's the only other interesting thing on the web. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:47:57 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Ronald Di Orio wrote: > Anyone have any photos of facilities, locos, > industries, or any info (trackplans, whatever) on this > branch of the PRR? The branch cut off the mainline > slightly west of Latrobe PA and served the mines and > coke ovens in the towns mentioned. Thanks in advance. I forgot to mention some stuff last time. Some pictures taken along the line: http://prr.dementia.org/places/alexandria-branch/ Also, most of the line is easily visible. The main line had an old alignment on "Carney Hill" that went through a tunnel. This was just east of the Alexandria Branch. From Donohoe Road you can look south and see the extant, apparently still open tunnel. You can look north and see where the Alexandria Branch took off north. I should get some pictures here. The spot where the old mainline crossed Donohoe Road is still benched out as you ascend the hill. Anyhow, if you turn off Donohoe Road northward where the signs pointing to "Twin Lakes Park", you can follow parts of the line. You'll pass under a stone underpass under the main line. There's a spot after you pass the parking lot for the Park on your right and an entrance to the park on your left where the road used to cross the branch on (I assume) a bridge. It's been replaced with fill. Turn left at the cross street just after. On the way down the hill you'll cross the line as it goes north. Turn right at the bottom of the hill. It will run along the hillside on your right. You'll come to a "T" intersection with a chruch on your left. Turn right. The line continues along the side of the hill, eventually crossing the road and running up a creek valley to your left. I think it's the first left that isn't a dead end. If you follow that road the line runs on your left the whole way to Crabtree, where it crossed 119 and forked, one fork going to (perhaps it was Hannas Town? I should look at a map) and the other turning back across 119 to head to New Alexandria/Salemville. You can turn right off the road onto 119, then right again in the center of Crabtree at Carbone's Restaurant, but it gets harder to parallel the line for much further here headed toward New Alexandria. If you go north on 119, go actual straight (fork right off 119 where 119 takes a shallow left curve) onto Archway. You can follow this road all the way to the arch where the branch crossed 22/119 on its old alignment into New Alexandria. The road is concrete after you turn off 119 but you'll notice a small patch of asphalt which until about 2 years ago was a crossing with rails intact. The ovens on the Salemville (west) side of 119 are gone, and there's not much to see on the Dundale branch (which crossed new 22 and went back into what's now a gun club). The "main line" of the branch went north along the creek past New Alex to Andrico, embankment visible in aerial photos. The things I don't understand are: -where the line ended, exactly. I understand the mines at Andrico weren't all situated in the same spot, so I'm not sure how the line forked at the end. -what the junction of the Alexandria (to Andrico) and Dundale branches looked like. A map on "The Old Miner" site I mentioned before makes it look like there were 2 wyes, not one. I've thus far found neither an old enough track chart nor a useful detailed map, but I probably haven't tried hard enough yet. There are several other small branches scattered over western PA that I wonder similarly about. Oh to have more time. Incidentally, I think if you search pittsburghlive.com there's an article about a guy with a house at Andrico whose access to route 981 is where the Andrico branch crossed that road. Aside from the Old Miner site that's the only other interesting thing on the web. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:40:21 -0500 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] Penn Central H30 photo Hi All, I just got this Penn Central H 30 photo. It is a somewhat unusual view as it is not the whole car, or a 3/4 view. So, I offer it as a free download. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/PC_H30.jpg It is about 2 MB, so you will be able to get a reasonable print from it. I will keep the link active for about 1 week. I use my web space often and keep it clean of unused filed. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:40:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Penn Central H30 photo Hi All, I just got this Penn Central H 30 photo. It is a somewhat unusual view as it is not the whole car, or a 3/4 view. So, I offer it as a free download. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/PC_H30.jpg It is about 2 MB, so you will be able to get a reasonable print from it. I will keep the link active for about 1 week. I use my web space often and keep it clean of unused filed. Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:52:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MR Article on Federa Street From: Jerry Britton On 3/29/03 6:14 PM, "Tom Kane" wrote: > Just received the May Model Railroader and John Wright's Federal Street > layout is featured. I looks great (even better than the website!) > Yes, those of us online have admired John's work for years. Now the masses are enlightened! Saw listers Elden and Derek got mentions! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 07:30:00 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > I forgot to mention some stuff last time. > Some pictures taken along the line: > http://prr.dementia.org/places/alexandria-branch/ > > Also, most of the line is easily visible. The main line had an old > alignment on "Carney Hill" that went through a tunnel. For some time PRR considered that piece of the old main to be part of the Alexandria Branch. > > Anyhow, if you turn off Donohoe Road northward where the signs > pointing to > "Twin Lakes Park", you can follow parts of the line. You'll pass > under a > stone underpass under the main line. There's a spot after you pass > the > parking lot for the Park on your right and an entrance to the park > on your > left where the road used to cross the branch on (I assume) a > bridge. Yep, a wooden bridge, as I recall. > It's > been replaced with fill. Turn left at the cross street just after. > On the > way down the hill you'll cross the line as it goes north. Turn > right at > the bottom of the hill. It will run along the hillside on your > right. > > You'll come to a "T" intersection with a chruch on your left. This is Luxor. > Turn right. But as you do that, be aware that a spur came off the branch, ran from your right to your left just beyond the crossbar of the T, then turned to your left front to a bank of coke ovens located (I believe) behind the post office. > The line continues along the side of the hill, eventually crossing > the > road and running up a creek valley to your left. I think it's the > first > left that isn't a dead end. > > If you follow that road the line runs on your left the whole way to > Crabtree, where it crossed 119 and forked, one fork going to > (perhaps it > was Hannas Town? Yes, Hannas Town and then onward to Forbes Road and perhaps a bit past. >I should look at a map) Yes. > and the other turning back > across > 119 to head to New Alexandria/Salemville. You can turn right off > the road > onto 119, then right again in the center of Crabtree at Carbone's > Restaurant, but it gets harder to parallel the line for much > further here > headed toward New Alexandria. > > If you go north on 119, go actual straight (fork right off 119 > where 119 > takes a shallow left curve) onto Archway. If I recall correctly, the straight on 119 approaching this from Crabtree was paralleled by the tail track of a wye. > You can follow this road > all the > way to the arch where the branch crossed 22/119 on its old > alignment into > New Alexandria. Strictly speaking, the Alexandria Branch didn't enter New Axexandria. The borough lies east of the creek, the borough line coinciding with the township line down the middle of the creek. > The road is concrete after you turn off 119 but > you'll > notice a small patch of asphalt which until about 2 years ago was a > crossing with rails intact. > > The ovens on the Salemville (west) side of 119 are gone, and > there's not > much to see on the Dundale branch (which crossed new 22 and went > back into > what's now a gun club). The "main line" of the branch went north > along the > creek past New Alex to Andrico, embankment visible in aerial > photos. See also the 1:25000 topographic map at www.topozone.com. It's out-of-date enough to show the branch, the wye, and the coke ovens. It also shows irregularities in the contour lines, pointing out the location of the grade on its way to, but not into Andrico. Nor does it spell out where Andrico is/was. > The things I don't understand are: > -where the line ended, exactly. I have looked at n maps, and they show n configurations of track out in the vicinity of New Alex. > I understand the mines at Andrico > weren't > all situated in the same spot, so I'm not sure how the line forked > at the > end. I have looked at n maps... > -what the junction of the Alexandria (to Andrico) and Dundale > branches > looked like. A map on "The Old Miner" site I mentioned before makes > it > look like there were 2 wyes, not one. If you go north on 981 out of New Alex, slow down as you get to the bottom of the first valley. There's a stretch of the old, pre-Loyalhanna Dam pavement of 981 which (last I was there) was marked by the gamne commission for parking. Park there, poke around on foot near the stream and you'll find the grade of the branch. I don't know where it went eastward either and last time I was there I wasn't dressed for pushing through the brush to follow it. > Incidentally, I think if you search pittsburghlive.com there's an > article > about a guy with a house at Andrico whose access to route 981 is > where the > Andrico branch crossed that road. If we're thinking of the same place, wouldn't surprise me none. The grade on the west side of 981 (see above) seemed to be pointed straight at a driveway on the east side. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 11:21:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Diesel ? Help Lists, Need help from the Diesels fans. On Alco C-630-36 etc locos, what color are the small lights above the numberoards supposed to be? I want to install MV Lens but need to know the appropriate colors. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 11:57:13 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] Diesel ? Help Gary, The small single lens lights on the ends of all PRR diesel locomotives were marker lamps and had red lenses. In the case of the Alcos, many roads had them delivered with the three lamps over each number board, one was green (sections), one white (extra) one red (marker). The PRR had them delivered w/ only on light, a marker. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:03:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] Diesel ? Help Al, Thanks for the info. My question was rather a generic one. I am finishing up 5 Alco Diesels for someone. 2 are CR, 1 SP 1 UP and 1 Demo. 4 have the 3 Lights above the Number Boards and 1 CR unit has only 1 light above the Board. Is it safe then to place G/C/R in that order in these Locos and the one with a single light place a Red? Whoops, I better mention "PRR" to make this post leagal....Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:22:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] Diesel ? Help Hello Gary,Al, & list........ On Alco Centuries with three class lights, the red markers is always closest to the headlight with the clear or white lens to the outside of the locomotive. The green lens is in the center. Check the book: "ALCO,Official Color Photography(Morning Sun). Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: Derrick J Brashear From: Derrick J Brashear Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:43:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem On Sun, 30 Mar 2003, robert netzlof wrote: > > http://prr.dementia.org/places/alexandria-branch/ [] > > You'll come to a "T" intersection with a chruch on your left. > > This is Luxor. > > > Turn right. > > But as you do that, be aware that a spur came off the branch, ran > from your right to your left just beyond the crossbar of the T, then > turned to your left front to a bank of coke ovens located (I believe) > behind the post office. Sure. There's a picture at the URL at the top of the page. I should have mentioned that. > > I understand the mines at Andrico > > weren't > > all situated in the same spot, so I'm not sure how the line forked > > at the > > end. > > I have looked at n maps... With enough detail to show forkage at Andrico? > > -what the junction of the Alexandria (to Andrico) and Dundale > > branches > > looked like. A map on "The Old Miner" site I mentioned before makes > > it > > look like there were 2 wyes, not one. > > If you go north on 981 out of New Alex, slow down as you get to the > bottom of the first valley. There's a stretch of the old, > pre-Loyalhanna Dam pavement of 981 which (last I was there) was > marked by the gamne commission for parking. Park there, poke around > on foot near the stream and you'll find the grade of the branch. I > don't know where it went eastward either and last time I was there I > wasn't dressed for pushing through the brush to follow it. >From there (on 981) west and south to the archway is easy. I don't understand where it was east of that spot on 981, and where the wye(s) to Salemville/Dundale were. http://patheoldminer.rootsweb.com/salem.html eludicates some of this. You can see where the Dundale branch went (Huron at the upper left) and the Andrico branch turn back toward 981 and Andrico (top) There's an obvious wye with all 3 legs to the right of and midway between the "Frogtown" and "Shieldsburg" labels. But what's that other marked right of way that curves in straight, but off, from the other wye (at left) that goes into Salemville? If you follow to http://patheoldminer.rootsweb.com/salem1.html you can see the archway being poured, and the the old New Alex station. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ZKLNcC/pEZFAA/i5gGAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:43:57 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem On Sun, 30 Mar 2003, robert netzlof wrote: > > http://prr.dementia.org/places/alexandria-branch/ [] > > You'll come to a "T" intersection with a chruch on your left. > > This is Luxor. > > > Turn right. > > But as you do that, be aware that a spur came off the branch, ran > from your right to your left just beyond the crossbar of the T, then > turned to your left front to a bank of coke ovens located (I believe) > behind the post office. Sure. There's a picture at the URL at the top of the page. I should have mentioned that. > > I understand the mines at Andrico > > weren't > > all situated in the same spot, so I'm not sure how the line forked > > at the > > end. > > I have looked at n maps... With enough detail to show forkage at Andrico? > > -what the junction of the Alexandria (to Andrico) and Dundale > > branches > > looked like. A map on "The Old Miner" site I mentioned before makes > > it > > look like there were 2 wyes, not one. > > If you go north on 981 out of New Alex, slow down as you get to the > bottom of the first valley. There's a stretch of the old, > pre-Loyalhanna Dam pavement of 981 which (last I was there) was > marked by the gamne commission for parking. Park there, poke around > on foot near the stream and you'll find the grade of the branch. I > don't know where it went eastward either and last time I was there I > wasn't dressed for pushing through the brush to follow it. >From there (on 981) west and south to the archway is easy. I don't understand where it was east of that spot on 981, and where the wye(s) to Salemville/Dundale were. http://patheoldminer.rootsweb.com/salem.html eludicates some of this. You can see where the Dundale branch went (Huron at the upper left) and the Andrico branch turn back toward 981 and Andrico (top) There's an obvious wye with all 3 legs to the right of and midway between the "Frogtown" and "Shieldsburg" labels. But what's that other marked right of way that curves in straight, but off, from the other wye (at left) that goes into Salemville? If you follow to http://patheoldminer.rootsweb.com/salem1.html you can see the archway being poured, and the the old New Alex station. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: Derrick J Brashear From: Derrick J Brashear Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:55:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem On Sun, 30 Mar 2003, robert netzlof wrote: > > Incidentally, I think if you search pittsburghlive.com there's an > > article > > about a guy with a house at Andrico whose access to route 981 is > > where the > > Andrico branch crossed that road. Since it's not necessarily obvious how to search for it on that site: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/search/s_77491.html > If we're thinking of the same place, wouldn't surprise me none. The > grade on the west side of 981 (see above) seemed to be pointed > straight at a driveway on the east side. In part the article says: "A portion of the PRR's rail spur has been supplanted by the main driveway linking Rt. 981 to Ackerman's estate." ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:55:52 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem On Sun, 30 Mar 2003, robert netzlof wrote: > > Incidentally, I think if you search pittsburghlive.com there's an > > article > > about a guy with a house at Andrico whose access to route 981 is > > where the > > Andrico branch crossed that road. Since it's not necessarily obvious how to search for it on that site: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/search/s_77491.html > If we're thinking of the same place, wouldn't surprise me none. The > grade on the west side of 981 (see above) seemed to be pointed > straight at a driveway on the east side. In part the article says: "A portion of the PRR's rail spur has been supplanted by the main driveway linking Rt. 981 to Ackerman's estate." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:57:58 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] Diesel ? Help Gary, I don't know the answer to the three lenses sequence question, but sounds like Dave does. Yes, the single lens would be red. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] Sandborn maps Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 14:17:01 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C2F6C7.07F02A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; The Sanborn access issue as mentioned by Steve Beals of L.A., is the = same procedure for Ohio as well. Get that Library Card number and you = have all the access you need. Earl Myers Louisville, Ohio ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C2F6C7.07F02A60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 The Sanborn access issue as = mentioned by=20 Steve Beals of L.A., is the same procedure for Ohio as well. Get that = Library=20 Card number and you have all the access you need.
Earl Myers
Louisville, = Ohio
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C2F6C7.07F02A60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] PRR news article Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:06:37 +0000 The transportation section of the Chicago Tribune on Sunday 3/30 has a front page article about the stations of Chicago. The front page picture is of Al Jolson on the rear platform of a heavyweight obs. in 1928 with the Boradway Limited tailsign on the car. Inside there is a picture of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor on the Pennsylvania limited in Union station. The PRR got the two biggest pictures in the article. You might try the Tribune web site to see if they included it on line. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 16:49:22 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel ? Help --part1_6d.db21596.2bb8c062_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary. The PRR C-636's came with the three lens. Clear-Green-Red from the outside towards the headlite. The C-628's and C-630's had the single lens. Pat McKinney --part1_6d.db21596.2bb8c062_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary.
        The PRR C-636's came with the thr= ee lens. Clear-Green-Red from the outside towards the headlite. The C-628's=20= and C-630's had the single lens.

Pat McKinney --part1_6d.db21596.2bb8c062_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Aldrjim@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:00:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem --part1_1a7.11f825a3.2bb8d0f8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03/29/2003 11:56:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, shadow@dementia.org writes: > The things I don't understand are: > -where the line ended, exactly. I understand the mines at Andrico weren't > all situated in the same spot, so I'm not sure how the line forked at the > end. > -what the junction of the Alexandria (to Andrico) and Dundale branches > looked like. A map on "The Old Miner" site I mentioned before makes it > look like there were 2 wyes, not one. > > The line forked on the west side of Route 981. If you can identify the driveway to the Ackerman residence, which is on the old right of way, the fork was on the opposite side of 981. The station, a standard shelter, and a platform were located there. There are still several existent concrete culverts there, also. The line that forked continued to tipple No. 1. Route 981 is approximately located on the former right of way as it curves to the right. Approximately midway between Route 981 and the Loyalhanna Creek a spur to tipple No. 3 took off. The map on the "Old Miner" site shows both the old and new rights of way as a result of the line relocation due to flood control circa 1942. The right of way to the right is the original line to New Alexandria built in 1900. The "wye" at the middle right was realigned slightly to the configuration shown in 1910 when the extension to Andrico was constructed. The right of way to the left which curves around to Frogtown was the "new" line placed in service in 1942. When this line was placed in service, the old line, the old "wye," and the line to Andrico were abandoned. The new line rejoins the old line just above and to the right of Frogtown. The wye just to the left of Frogtown replaced the original wye in 1942. Currently, Route 119 parallels the left leg of this wye. Jim Aldridge --part1_1a7.11f825a3.2bb8d0f8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 03/29/= 2003 11:56:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, shadow@dementia.org writes:


The things I don't understa= nd are:
-where the line ended, exactly. I understand the mines at Andrico weren'= t
all situated in the same spot, so I'm not sure how the line forked at th= e
end.
-what the junction of the Alexandria (to Andrico) and Dundale branches
looked like. A map on "The Old Miner" site I mentioned before makes it
look like there were 2 wyes, not one.



The line forked on the west side of Route 981.  If you can identify= the driveway to the Ackerman residence, which is on the old right of way, t= he fork was on the opposite side of 981.  The station, a standard shelt= er, and a platform were located there.  There are still several existen= t concrete culverts there, also.  The line that forked  continued=20= to tipple No. 1.  Route 981 is approximately located on the former righ= t of way as it curves to the right.  Approximately midway between Route= 981 and the Loyalhanna Creek a spur to tipple No. 3 took off.

The map on the "Old Miner" site shows both the old and new rights of way= as a result of the line relocation due to flood control circa 1942.  T= he right of way to the right is the original line to New Alexandria built in= 1900.  The "wye" at the middle right was realigned slightly to the con= figuration shown in 1910 when the extension to Andrico was constructed. &nbs= p;The right of way to the left which curves around to Frogtown was the "new"= line placed in service in 1942.  When this line was placed in service,= the old line, the old "wye," and the line to Andrico were abandoned.  = The new line rejoins the old line just above and to the right of Frogtown. &= nbsp;The wye just to the left of Frogtown replaced the original wye in 1942.=  Currently, Route 119 parallels the left leg of this wye.

Jim Aldridge --part1_1a7.11f825a3.2bb8d0f8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:34:38 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > On Sun, 30 Mar 2003, robert netzlof wrote: > > I have looked at n maps... > > With enough detail to show forkage at Andrico? > Don't think I've seen any such. Point was that each map I've seen is different from each of the others, and in mutually exclusive ways. > > > -what the junction of the Alexandria (to Andrico) and Dundale > > > branches > > > looked like. A map on "The Old Miner" site I mentioned before > makes > > > it > > > look like there were 2 wyes, not one. And he says so too. "The Salem No. 1 Mine was served by the Allsworth Station on the Allsworth Spur of the New Alexandria Branch Line of the Pennsylvania Railroad, via a turning wye at the New Alexandria Station and another wye at Frogtown." > From there (on 981) west and south to the archway is easy. I don't > understand where it was east of that spot on 981, and where the > wye(s) to > Salemville/Dundale were. > > http://patheoldminer.rootsweb.com/salem.html > eludicates some of this. You can see where the Dundale branch went > (Huron > at the upper left) and the Andrico branch turn back toward 981 and > Andrico > (top) > > There's an obvious wye with all 3 legs to the right of and midway > between > the "Frogtown" and "Shieldsburg" labels. But what's that other > marked > right of way that curves in straight, but off, from the other wye > (at > left) that goes into Salemville? The Loyalhanna Dam construction caused several relocations. The Alexandria Branch ran along the Loyalhanna Creek (see lower right corner of map at Old Miner) and while not right down at creek level, it had to be raised to be above the flood pool. The map is, I believe, showing us the pre- and post-dam locations in the lower right quadrant of the map. The apparent wye west of the word "Frogtown" is, I believe, the wye shown on the topo map at Topozone. The road, which in the Old Miner map runs diagonally northeastward is 119 which was relocated to a more directly northerly route, meeting old 22 in the vicinity of the "u" in "Shieldsburg". It then continued northward to meet the new 22. I suspect that by the time the Corps of Engineers was making that map, the branch to Andrico was gone and along with it the wye. As I recall, the 1923 CT1000 does not mention Andrico, which seems about right, given the dates in the Trib article about whats-his-name. "Mining at Andrico was not a long-lived enterprise. Ackerman noted the first shipments of coal began in 1909, but the local seam was becoming "mined out" by about 1925-26." If we take "about 1925-26" to be "before 1923", it rightly wouldn't be in the 1923 CT1000. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:26:30 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] Diesel ? Help This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_6tt9WkYKeR65CL1FfR+XVw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT PKMac sez> The PRR C-636's came with the three lens I didn't think the PRR had any ALCo C-636 units. I thought the last PRR 6 axle ALCos were the class AF-30a (ALCo C-630) numbers 6315-6329. Al --Boundary_(ID_6tt9WkYKeR65CL1FfR+XVw) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message
PKMac sez> The PRR C-636's came with the three lens
 
 
I didn't think the PRR had any ALCo C-636 units. I thought the last PRR 6 axle ALCos were the class AF-30a (ALCo C-630) numbers 6315-6329.
 
 
Al
--Boundary_(ID_6tt9WkYKeR65CL1FfR+XVw)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 22:53:34 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel ? Help --part1_122.20b79349.2bb915be_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Were they ordered by the Pennsy and delivered under PC like the U-33-C? The PC Bi-annual has them listed as former PRR. Pat --part1_122.20b79349.2bb915be_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Were they ordered by the Pennsy and delivered under PC= like the U-33-C? The PC Bi-annual has them listed as former PRR.

Pat --part1_122.20b79349.2bb915be_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] ALCO C636 - former PRR units? Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:14:03 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2F712.0E326190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy All: The Alco C636 arrived on the property in March/April 1968. I'm guessing (based on some published reports) they were assigned PRR numbers 6330 to 6344 but all delivered as PC. Given the time frame to order - I'm guessing about 6 months - and add in the all fiscal responsibility stuff that one would go through to order several million dollars worth of equipment, they (the PRR management) must have had this purchase in mind in mid to late 1966 (and built into the 1966 renumbering scheme) for fiscal 1967ordering. I would submit that the same could be said of the last order of SD45 6200 to 6234. Delivered during January of 1968. The 6207 was the last PRR painted SD45. Checking NYC ordered GP40s - last NYC painted units delivered in November 1967. The next set was delivered in August 1968. Plenty of time for PC to have ordered, though may have been in the NYC fiscal pipeline during late 1967. Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone PKMac sez> The PRR C-636's came with the three lens I didn't think the PRR had any ALCo C-636 units. I thought the last PRR 6 axle ALCos were the class AF-30a (ALCo C-630) numbers 6315-6329. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2F712.0E326190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

Ho= wdy All:

Th= e Alco C636 arrived on the property in March/April = 1968.

I&= #8217;m guessing (based on some published reports) they were assigned PRR = numbers 6330 to 6344 but all delivered as PC.

Gi= ven the time frame to order – I’m guessing about 6 months – = and add in the all fiscal responsibility stuff that one would go through to order several million = dollars worth of equipment, they (the PRR management) must have had this = purchase in mind in mid to late 1966 (and built into the 1966 renumbering scheme) = for fiscal 1967ordering.

I = would submit that the same could be said of the last order of SD45 6200 to = 6234.

De= livered during January of 1968.  = The 6207 was the last PRR painted SD45.

Ch= ecking NYC ordered GP40s – last NYC painted units delivered in November = 1967.  The next set was delivered in = August 1968. Plenty of time for PC to have ordered, though may have been in the = NYC fiscal pipeline during late 1967.

 

Cos

=

Wayne S. = Betty

Cos Communications, Inc.

=

Small = business IT services.

=

 

Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road

=

NMRA, = MER, Susquehanna Div, 11

=

NHRS, = Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061

=

http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm

at the west end of the PRR electrified = zone

=

<= span class=3DEmailStyle15> 

 

PKMac sez> The PRR C-636's came with the three lens<= /p>

 <= /p>

I didn't think the PRR had any ALCo C-636 units. I thought the last PRR 6 = axle ALCos were the class AF-30a (ALCo C-630) numbers = 6315-6329.<= /p>

  <= /p>

Al= <= /p>

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C2F712.0E326190-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:34:02 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Luxor-Crabtree-Hannastown-Salem On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 Aldrjim@aol.com wrote: > The line forked on the west side of Route 981. If you can identify the > driveway to the Ackerman residence, which is on the old right of way, the It's the one with the (brick? stone? I haven't been past it in a couple months) pylons on either side of the driveway. > fork was on the opposite side of 981. The station, a standard shelter, and a > platform were located there. There are still several existent concrete > culverts there, also. The line that forked continued to tipple No. 1. > Route 981 is approximately located on the former right of way as it curves to > the right. Approximately midway between Route 981 and the Loyalhanna Creek a > spur to tipple No. 3 took off. I should try drawing a map on a hunk of aerial photo and see if I understand correctly what you mean. > The map on the "Old Miner" site shows both the old and new rights of way as a > result of the line relocation due to flood control circa 1942. The right of Bob of course pointed out that I should read more carefully. Between your answers I think I understand this at least, now. Getting back to the original question... I don't know if Ron is in the area, but if not I can try to take some pictures around the area next time I have some free time. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 00:17:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel ? Help Pat, You're right about the Alco C636 and the GE U33C diesels. They were ordered by PRR but were factory painted in the "colorful" Penn Central scheme. The U33Cs showed up two weeks after the merger. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:28:22 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Convention Mailer From: Jerry Britton Since there is a habit of tracking such things, I got my PRRT&HS convention mailing on Friday, March 28th. I'm between York and Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] MR Article on Federal Street Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:04:27 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2F7A7.96960B50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks all; John deserves tremendous approbation for his phenomenal modeling. I did little but provide some historical and prototype background. John is a gentleman for even meentioning us. John's modeling techniques, particularly in weathering structures, deserve a treatise all on their own. They are very different from what most of us do. You can tell they would be worthwhile learning, as the results speak for themselves! I wish he would do a book or article on just this subject. What about it, John? Elden -----Original Message----- From: Robert Poggio [mailto:rrp5286@excite.com] Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:07 PM To: Tom.Kane@hds.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] MR Article on Federal Street Fellow Listers, I just wanted to echo Tom Kane's congratulations to John Wright and his work. I also would like to extend kudos to frequent posters Elden Gatwood and Derrick Brashear for helping John and even getting mentioned for it. Respectfully, Bob Poggio Virginia Beach _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2F7A7.96960B50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] MR Article on Federal Street

Thanks all;
John deserves tremendous approbation for his = phenomenal modeling.  I did little but provide some historical and = prototype background.  John is a gentleman for even meentioning = us.  John's modeling techniques, particularly in weathering = structures, deserve a treatise all on their own.  They are very = different from what most of us do.  You can tell they would be = worthwhile learning, as the results speak for themselves!  I wish = he would do a book or article on just this subject.  What about = it, John?

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Poggio [mailto:rrp5286@excite.com]=
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:07 PM
To: Tom.Kane@hds.com; prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: RE: [PRR] MR Article on Federal = Street



Fellow Listers,
  I just wanted to echo Tom Kane's = congratulations to John Wright and his work.  I also would like to = extend kudos to frequent posters Elden Gatwood and Derrick Brashear for = helping John and even getting mentioned for it.

Respectfully,

Bob Poggio
Virginia Beach

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2F7A7.96960B50-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:42:17 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] lexandria Branch, Luxor, New Alec, Andrico Yesterday I said the 1923 didn't mention Andrico. WRONG. I was looking at the wrong CT1000. One thing I did turn up: In 1923 the Alexandria Branch had it's far end at or near Andrico, with the Dundale Branch cutting off at 86.8 miles from Altoona (9.8 miles from Donohoe). The Dundale Branch served the Salem and Huron Collieries of the Keystone C&C Co and the Goodfellow Colliery. According to the 1945 CT1000, there was no Dundale Branch. The Salem Colliery was listed on the Alexandria Branch. That is, it appears the track to Andrico was gone, and what had been the Dundale Branch was redefined as the "far end" of the Alexandria Branch. I also claimed that the New Alec borough line coincided with the Derry-Unity Township line down the middle of the Loyalhanna Creek. Also WRONG. The township line is in the middle of the creek, but it appears the borough line is on the east bank of the creek. It remains that what the RR called New Alexandria wasn't within the borough. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:21:21 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] Re: lexandria Branch, Luxor, New Alec, Andrico On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, robert netzlof wrote: > According to the 1945 CT1000, there was no Dundale Branch. The Salem > Colliery was listed on the Alexandria Branch. That is, it appears the > track to Andrico was gone, and what had been the Dundale Branch was > redefined as the "far end" of the Alexandria Branch. Yes, that shows on track charts. Sort of annoying, they didn't just "x" out the old line so I haven't yet seen the rail arrangement on the "real" Alexandria Branch. I don't know if I've scanned any charts covering this yet. I think Jerry has. > Also WRONG. The township line is in the middle of the creek, but it > appears the borough line is on the east bank of the creek. It remains > that what the RR called New Alexandria wasn't within the borough. As I recall you were addressing my oversimplification of the situation (I said something like "the line went on to New Alex and...") And I will confess I simplified out some details because I thought my post was too long. ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] Cabin car interior color question... Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:23:04 -0500 Hi all, Here at the Whippany Railroad Museum in Northern New Jersey we're working on restoring an N5c, PRR 477823. We're planning on painting it circa 1955 in the shadow keystone scheme. The 1955 painting instructions I have online at my site ( http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRR_PaintingInstructions_Dec01_1955.pdf ) Have the upper portion of the interior painted "Cream Enamel, Acct. 47, Ref. 3047" So far I have been unable to find a description or paint match for this. Does any one on the list have a drift card for this color or a paint match or manufacturer's reference? Also, does anyone have or know where I can find an in service photo of this cabin? I haven't been able to find one yet... For some photos and more info on our cabin check out: http://www.whippanyrailwaymuseum.org/wrym/equipment/prrhack/index.htm Thanks! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:56:04 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] J. Edgar Thomson, "Karlhaus" Lumber and Coal Co. I recently read "J. Edgar Thomson, Master of the Pennsylvania". In it, the author mentions Thomson's having had an interest in something called the "Karlhaus Lumber and Coal Co." From the context, it appears that Karlhaus is a place name somewhere in the Clearfield-Moshannon coal fields. I suspect the author misread some notes, and meant to say Karthaus rather than Karlhaus. Does anyone know of a Karlhaus anywhere? Does anyone know if Thomson had an interest in mines and/or lumber operations around Karthaus? Inquiring minds and all that. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Cooper" Subject: [PRR] Zoo Tower Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:42:43 -0800 Anyone know what is up with the green wall in the following picture of Zoo Tower? http://personalwebs.myriad.net/lruback/Philly/AMTK/AMTK_ZooTwr01.jpg BTW, there are good railfanning pictures of someone's trip to Philadelphia at: http://personalwebs.myriad.net/lruback/Philly/ John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:29:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR K4 number plate on ebay. Just incase anyone wants to buy a K4 number plate (Keystone) #122, there is one on ebay. It started at $100.00, and now it's at $3300.00. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: [PRR] Diesel Switcher lettering color Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:44:19 -0600 List, I've been studying lettering colors for diesel locomotives, and am now a little confused about the switchers. Now that I know the F-units came delivered in buff lettering, this has cast doubt on what the lettering color was on the switchers. In the 40's, the PRR got lots of switchers; SW1's, NW2's, S1's, VO-660's, VO-1000's, etc. What lettering color were these locos delivered with? Did this change in the early 50's when the passenger diesels switched from Gold Leaf to Delux Gold? Thanks, Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Cooper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Zoo Tower Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:06:17 -0800 OK, I thought it was something down below separating Amtrak from NS (Ex Reading Belmont Branch). My 10 year old photos show only a handrailing parallel to the tracks at that point. there. John -----Original Message----- From: E. Mike To: johncoop@ix.netcom.com ; PRR-TALK@dsop.com Date: Monday, March 31, 2003 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Zoo Tower > > > > > >Its a green plastic catenary shield to protect workers et al from accidently >comming into contact with the overhead wire of the track emerging from the >underpass. It is standard equipment on everything that passes over an >electrified line. > >>From: "John Cooper" >>To: "PRR-TALK" >>Subject: [PRR] Zoo Tower >>Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:42:43 -0800 >> >>Anyone know what is up with the green wall in the following picture of Zoo >>Tower? >>http://personalwebs.myriad.net/lruback/Philly/AMTK/AMTK_ZooTwr01.jpg >> >>BTW, there are good railfanning pictures of someone's trip to Philadelphia >>at: >>http://personalwebs.myriad.net/lruback/Philly/ >> >>John >> >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!!