From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] CENTIPEDE Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:13:20 -0500 Bruce: Aside from the marketing opportunities, which I believe are adequate, what about erection drawings, painting and lettering schematics etc.? Does our group have sufficient resources to present a package to Bachman that they can use to design a loco? I don't think designing a diesel loco chassis, like the centipede's, to run on 18" R or even 15" R, would present too many mechanical problems. After all, there are existing Bachman 8 and 10 couple steam locos that can run on 15" R. (I'm not saying that they look good doing it, they just can) The question then is: "should we, as an organization, pursue this agenda?" I believe a project like this has more merit for our group than most of the projects that have been proposed. Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce F. Smith" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 2:23 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] CENTIPEDE > > > >I would personally think that since Bachman has released a E44 electric > >model, maybe a centipede would not be out of the question. How many > >roads used the E44 and number of units compared to the centipede ? > > > >Ken Nesbitt > > Ken, > > The Botchman model is an E33, so the roads that had it are VIRGINIAN, > NORFOLK & WESTERN, NEW HAVEN, PENN CENTRAL, CONRAIL. Several of those > schemes are colorful "impulse buy" schemes. The E44 might slide in next, > as it did actually have as many road names (PRR, PC, CR, AMTRACK, NJT) and > some were colorful, but the PRR, PC and most of the CR units were dull, > dull, dull (in terms of color). The E44 could "stand in" for Muskingom > Electric Railway E50, but they had all of 2 units... > > As for the centipede... > On the minus side: > 1) Only 2 US railroads > 2) BIG loco (will it run on 18" min radius in HO?) > 3) Dull, dull, dull PRR paint (face it gang, PRR lcoos sell because lots of > people model the PRR, not because somebody decides that its a "pretty paint > scheme"...the Santa Fe sells because its pretty > > On the plus side: > 1) Unique loco - the "oddball" factor > 2) ACL scheme is pretty > 3) There are a LOT of PRR fans who would buy 2, or 4, or... > 4) You could do it in fantasy schemes (note that many manufacturers are > still happy to do this with cars, but far more reluctant to take the heat > over fake loco schemes....for example IM will introduce a number of bogus > schemes on their N-scale FGE reefer, but will likely stick to proto schemes > for the new diesels.) > > Hey, someday we might get lucky...after all LL did the DL-109...but I > should point out that a 2 unit set of BP60/BH50 locos from a company like > Broadway or LL will likely run close to $500. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Centipedes Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:32:39 -0500 Bill: Don't wait too much longer, we all may be dead. :-) Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Volkmer" To: ; "'PRR-Talk'" ; Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:52 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Centipedes > The trains mag article(you speak of)devoted to centipedes was published > in 1983. The Pennsy article was authored by myself, after D.P. Morgan > asked me via an annual postcard to write the article for over 18 years! > I had written the first version in one of the very first issues of X2200 > South, in 1962, and impressed him. He literally BEGGED me to rewrite > the article. > > I wanted to wait until most of the people on the PRR involved with the > Centipedes were dead before I wrote the article, lest I might offend > someone. > > WDV > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of > ndbprr@att.net > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:06 AM > To: PRR-Talk; VVA249@aol.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Centipedes > > > NdeM's were purchased new. Trains did an article on them many years ago > - > maybe 30. The NdeM nicknamed them, "the thousand feets" according to > the > Baldwin guy sent down there to break them in. Norm Bell > > In a message dated 1/29/03 9:00:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > mfreitas@sover.net writes: > > > > << PRR fans will buy in pairs, maybe one of each paint scheme? >> > > > > PRR fans should buy 2 at a time - Pennsy's were drawbar connected > > pairs, > > Seaboard's were single units > > (were they double ended?) and what of the NdeM's - were they bought > new or > > 2nd hand? > > > > Dick Ross > > Cleveland > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] More on Bowser I1 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:35:14 -0500 I have experience with these locos traversing 16.5" R. Just go slow like the prototype did. Lew Matt. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-talk" Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: [PRR] More on Bowser I1 > Hi, everyone, > > Thanks for your helpful suggestions. The majority view is to buy flanged > drivers from Bowser for #2 and 4. Can anyone tell me what the minimum radius > becomes for an engine modified this way? I have a 4-track main line and I > think there is one place with a minimum of 22" on the inside track. Your > thoughts? > > George Pierson > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 single motor (was CENTIPEDE and More!) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:14:51 -0500 I had a single motor (zinc? lead?) T1 that I used to run on a layout with 1.5% grades and fairly sharp curves. It pulled 10 American Beauty cars with full interiors, very well. It did well with those Athearn metal box cars too. It used The older, smaller Pittman motor, than they use now. I forget the number. I don't remember what the amperage draw was, but it was high. There was a rubber (surgical?) tube, in lieu of a universal joint, to transmit power to the front worm and gear assembly, from the rear worm and motor shaft. Each chassis had a worm on a shaft over idler over wheel gear, the rear assembly was on the motor shaft. It ran very well until the rubber tube needed replacing, the tubes would get hard and break from the lubricating oil (3 in one). When the tube stiffened up, the front drivers wouldn't track through turnouts or sharp curves. Used to replace tubes about twice a year. A friend who was a machinist and made this power train for me. When the kids were small, it mysteriously took a dive out the third floor train room window one day onto the sidewalk and the castings broke. Somehow a 2x4 and Tru-Track sections were laid from a siding off the main, right across the aisle and out the window far enough to clear the rain gutter. Thank God no one was under it when it landed, it weighed a ton! To this day, no one knows anything about it. Nobody was in the house that day either. I traded the parts for some other goodies. Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "PennsyNut" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] CENTIPEDE and More! > Hi All. IMHO! > > I would only disagree with one point. Life Like Proto 1000 has already done > some locos with what looks like good success. So why limit to LLP 2000? If > the DL109 can sell, so should the Centipede. Another choice would be > Botchman, but I'm not sure they can do it right, so I agree there. I have > no experience with Roco. The only reason I bring this up is cost. LLP1 > would be far cheaper than LLP2, Athearn Genesis, or BLI. > > As for dual engined, why? With all those wheels? And with proper > weighting? In the "real" modeling world, what difference does a 6,000 hp > engine have with the normal 3,500 hp or so? Either one on a model layout > would probably be able to pull more cars than "most" layouts can > accommodate. I saw an Atlas RS2 or 3 pull more cars than we cared to > imagine. Ditto for lots of other current diesel models. And as for steam, > that's why there's Bowser! LOL And although I've not seen one, has anyone > ever built a single motored T1? Does it pull? And if the model requires 2 > motors, is it because there are 2 sets of drivers? Can't one motor be > linked through both sets of drivers? > > A final IMHO - for those who don't like cast on grabs, etc. (as in LLP1), go > ahead and cut them off, etc. That's what "modeling" is all about. And at > $40 or so, what do you expect? I am satisfied with my C-Liner. The only > real complaint I have with any and all manufacturers is the DGLE. Athearn > Genesis is about as close as I think we can expect. (On mass produced, > non-brass). > > Morgan Bilbo > Ferroequinologist > PRRTHS #1204 and SPF > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "PGrace" ; "Lewis J. Matt PhD" ; > "Bruce Smith" > Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" > Sent: Thursday, 30 January, 2003 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] CENTIPEDE > > > > On 1/30/03 12:52 PM, PGrace (pgrace@aspects.net) wrote: > > > > > If Bachmann / Life Like are not interested we could try someone like > > > Roco.... > > > > > I wouldn't waste time with Bachmann or Roco. If you're going to take the > > time to do this model, which would likely only ever be produced once, do > it > > right. > > > > I think it would have to be one of > > > > Athearn Genesis > > Life Like Proto 2000 > > Broadway Limited Imports > > > > I don't think Atlas or Kato would touch it, and am very doubtful about > > Athearn and Life Like. Given the limited appeal, I'd bet the only > practical > > route would be BLI...at about $500 per loco. Done right, it would be worth > > it. > > > > Remember, these were HUGE locos. In model railroad terms, each loco would > > really have two engines. So an A-A set would be like four locomotives. The > > real A-A units were 6000 hp, the same as an ABBA set of E7's. > > > > So you'd have a dual engine locomotive, with sound and DCC, for $500 > retail. > > A pair of "normal" locos with widespread appeal would retail for around > > $300. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona/Strasburg/Mount Union (long) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:36:56 -0500 Hey! I'd love to eat prime rib at the Willows again, have a rocky road sundae at Joe Myers, go to Oktoberfest at the Guernsey barn and then drive down 30 East and watch the electric trains go by......... Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne S. Betty" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:22 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Altoona/Strasburg/Mount Union (long) > Howdy List: > Just my two cents worth - > I don't think the SRR would be too excited about having a K4s running on > it's rail anytime soon. > With a driving axel load close to 34 tons - yea the 7002 was 30 tons, the > current SRR motive power is all under 20 tons on drivers. > Just imagine the additional track maintenance that occurs with that extra 14 > plus tons. > And do you really want to watch it backing up half the time? > > Just for grins - an SD80MAC has an axel load of 35 tons. > > I was growing up in Strasburg in the '60s - I remember the big engines > coming to town. > I remember the increase in traffic at the east end of town and my parents > telling me to be extra careful crossing the busy Main Street to get to the > school bus stop. The other thing I remember is the new macadam pavement - > laid down by McMinns in either '65 or '66. > I'm not sure that the SRR could have grown and prospered the way it has > without the RmofPA coming to town. > Just think, we could still have The Willows and Joe Myers Restaurants, the > Guernsey barn would still be hosting special events and the Congress Inn > would be all by itself on the Lincoln Highway East. > Altoona could have Horseshoe Square and a tourist industry that would be > bringing it millions of dollars each year. > Or maybe the PHMC saw the potential draw of the Amish, the SRR and a museum > so close to Phila, New York and Baltimore. > > While the Centipede would be a lot of fun - how about something more useful > like a nice Alco C636. > > > Cos > Wayne S. Betty > Cos Communications, Inc. > Small business IT services. > > Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road > NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 > NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 > http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm > at the west end of the PRR electrified zone > > > The Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission deliberated and, by a > margin of *one vote*, chose Strasburg as the site for the state museum. > The nature and result of that process was controversial then and has > remained so ever since. In the context of state railroad history, > neither Strasburg nor Lancaster County generally has ever been known as > a railroad center -- one would never think of either in the same > category as, say, Reading, Altoona, Sayre, McKees Rocks, Harrisburg, > Enola, Pitcairn, Conway, DuBois, Greenville, Renovo, Eddystone, or even > Scranton -- i.e., no major yards or shops, no major passenger > facilities, no landmark-status fixtures or facilities, and comparatively > speaking, no major railroad employment base. Think of the final > selection as the equivalent of placing the Pennsylvania Farm Museum in > downtown Erie (except that that was placed in Lancaster County, too, > where it logically fits the heritage, geography, culture, and pattern of > land use). > > PHMC wanted to place the museum *next to* an operating steam railroad > but didn't want to get into the cost and technical involvement of > mounting and running a steam program. From PHMC's standpoint, this was > one of the biggest strikes against Altoona -- no steam and no prospect > of steam. One of the strongest arguments for Strasburg was the > double-pronged existence of the Strasburg Rail Road and the > Penn-Dutch/Amish Country tourism base that was situated within easy > driving distance of Philadelphia and the East Coast. This would, they > reasoned, guarantee a built-in flow of paying customers through any > museum that might be placed there, thus reducing the subsidy that the > state would have to fork out. > > > History happens where it happens, not where we would like it to happen > for external reasons. Would we build a Battle of Gettysburg museum in > York because the latter is on an Interstate and the former is not? With > that said, when I go to the RMPa in Strasburg to do research in the > library or archives, there's absolutely no reason why that experience > would be any more productive or successful if it were in Altoona. At > this remove, there's no point to re-fighting the battle. We can only > imagine what might have happened had PRR offered, and PHMC accepted, the > East Altoona Enginehouse. > > Dan Cupper > Harrisburg, Pa. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 00:02:03 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Items for Sale --part1_1da.3ff18cb.2b9198cb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the=20 above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp. PRR CT 1000C May,1945-Very good cond,slight wear on bottom spine and cover =A0 corners from shelf wear=A0=A0 $ 85 PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20 PRR Station Plan Book,Copy of 1907 book,71 stations E. of Pgh, a front view, a cross sect. view & shows location, 8 towers, sig bridges-2 thru 8 tracks= =20 wide. 90 pgs, 8-1/2 x11 $25=20 PRR Middle Division Interlocking Plants, Copy of 1914-1917 plans,Banks to=20 Slope, Hollidaysburg Br,Morison Cove Br, 50 pgs,8-1/2 x 14 $25 =20 PRR Map of 1881 MainLine from Alt. to Johnstown,Alleg. Portage RR & inclines= , New Portage Br,Blue print copied from original linen. $9 PRR Mine Card & Revenue Waybill,has 3 copies with carbon paper $2 PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6 PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $400 PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6 PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5 PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,=20 =A0=A0 dated 1-1-60,very good cond.=A0 $35 PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5 PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5 PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5 PRR Annual Report-1930 $30 PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25 PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12 PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15 PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50 =A0=20 PRR Middle Div ETT No.14, 4-25-49,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s $25 PRR Middle Div ETT No.17, 4-29-51,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s $25 PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $20 style= =3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents, =A0 75 cents=A0 $10 ea.bk=20 PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5 PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30 PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18 PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12 PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5 PC POST employee magizine,various issues but not all $4 PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16 PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section=20 =A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20=20 PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40 PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40 CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40 CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & logo= =A0=20 $40 CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2 reg style=A0 $15 ea. CR Annual Report-1987=A0 $12 CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo but other wise excellent.=A0 $30 Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight PRR Sleepers,old former camp cars,some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heavy=A0 $40= =A0=20 Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0=20 $55pr EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $15 Thank you. Pat McKinney --part1_1da.3ff18cb.2b9198cb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List
=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp.


PRR CT 1000C May,1945-Very good cond,slight wear on bottom spine and cover =A0 corners from shelf wear=A0=A0 $ 85
PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20=
PRR Station Plan Book,Copy of 1907 book,71 stations E. of Pgh, a fron= t view,
  a cross sect. view & shows location, 8 towers, sig bridges-2 thru= 8 tracks
  wide. 90 pgs, 8-1/2 x11  $25
PRR Middle Division Interlocking Plants, Copy of 1914-1917 plans,Banks to Sl= ope,
  Hollidaysburg Br,Morison Cove Br, 50 pgs,8-1/2 x 14   $25 
PRR Map of 1881 MainLine from Alt. to Johnstown,Alleg. Portage RR & incl= ines,
  New Portage Br,Blue print copied from original linen.  $9
PRR Mine Card & Revenue Waybill,has 3 copies with carbon paper  $2
PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6
PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $400
PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6<= /B>
PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5
PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,
=A0=A0 dated 1-1-60,very good cond.=A0 $35
PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5
PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5
PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5
PRR Annual Report-1930 $3= 0
PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25
PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12
PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15
PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50=A0
PRR Middle Div ETT No.14, 4-25-49,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s = $25
PRR Middle Div ETT No.17, 4-29-51,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s  $25
PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $20
PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents,
=A0 75 cents=A0 $10 ea.bk =
PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5
PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30
PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18
PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12
PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5
PC POST employee magizin= e,various issues but not all  $4
PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16=
PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section
=A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20
PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40<= BR> PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40=
CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40
CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & l= ogo=A0 $40
CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2= reg style=A0 $15 = ea.
CR Annual Report-1987=A0 = $12
CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo
   but other wise excellent.=A0 $30
Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight PRR Sleepers,old former camp=
   cars,some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heav= y=A0 $40=A0
Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0 $55pr
EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $= 15

Thank you.
Pat McKinney




 --part1_1da.3ff18cb.2b9198cb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 07:36:10 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Gentlemen, I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR Arranged Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in the Conrail era). However, I lack documentation that tells me: 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in the Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/bbvVKB/oEZFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 07:29:35 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer In an earlier discussion, there was mention of "buffers" on these cars. I assume --always dangerous- that the buffer is the rounded area projecting out above the coupler...which shows in some photos and plans. What is the purpose for this. I know passenger cars with end doors have them as part of the "floor" in the diaphragm area passages between cars. R50b has no end doors...HELP! Jim McDaniel, lost in Delmarva where R50bs were used for shipping seafood and dead ducks to folks in Philly and Neow Yark! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 & K5 Differences Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 09:09:26 -0500 For anybody that is interested...... Link to the scanned drawings of Hank Mummert's Bowser K5. http://groups.msn.com/Samstoys/samstrainphotos.msnw?Page=Last The parts list I will be putting into Word If anybody wants a copy of that e-mail me directly and I will send it to you. Sam Vastano >From: "Tammra Link" >To: >Subject: Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 & K5 Differences >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:06:11 -0800 > >Mr. Vastano, > If Mr. Mummert would allow it, I would appreciate that list, as I >have been doing a Bowser building frenzy, concentrating on "modernizing >L-1s Mikados. I would like to model a K-5 for my Crestline, OH based >forthcoming PRR layout. Thank You, Also, Bowser parts are available >cheaper from listmember Frank Brua of Parkvarieties than direct from >Bowser. I have dealt with him on several occasions with exceptional >results. > >Matt Link >PRR T&HS # 7140 >Vice President, The Crestline Roundhouse Preservation Society >(www.crestlineroundhouse.org) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 10:05:51 -0500 I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. I too would like to know the function of the buffers. As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub on the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their no-load, fully extended, configuration. If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped car? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "James L. McDaniel" To: "Chany, Christopher" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 7:29 AM Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > In an earlier discussion, there was mention of "buffers" on these cars. > I assume --always dangerous- that the buffer is the rounded area > projecting out above the coupler...which shows in some photos and plans. > > What is the purpose for this. I know passenger cars with end doors have > them as part of the "floor" in the diaphragm area passages between cars. > > R50b has no end doors...HELP! > > Jim McDaniel, lost in Delmarva where R50bs were used for shipping > seafood and dead ducks to folks in Philly and Neow Yark! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 12:00:53 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer In a message dated 3/1/03 9:07:28 AM Central Standard Time, frea@insight.rr.com writes: << I too would like to know the function of the buffers. >> How about an early form of car cushioning? Keep the eggs from breaking. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] Strasburg stuff: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 12:38:07 -0500 Had a chance to get by the SRR today. The ND cabin is now out by J tower in the new coach yard. The Lancaster Chapter is getting ready to paint J tower again - it still looks better then it did in it's last years at Lemoyne. http://www.wsbcos.com/srr/prrnd.jpg http://www.wsbcos.com/srr/prrjtower.jpg The shop forces have applied Number 31's original CN number plate. http://www.wsbcos.com/srr/7312c.jpg More changes coming to SRR soon too! Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:51:37 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Hi list members, The buffers are intended to keep the coupler slack stretched in a passenger train. This prevents a rough ride for the passengers in the other cars of the train - you don't have the "slam" effect of the slack running in and out. - Claus > I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. I > too would like to know the function of the buffers. > > As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One > plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub on > the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their no-load, > fully extended, configuration. > > If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across > them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. > > Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped car? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:51:16 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] QClass Duplex --0-684282833-1046541076=:92499 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Did the Q class duplex ever run over eastern Panhandle rails, i.e., Pittsburgh to Mingo, or only on the Ft. Wayne, Conway and west? Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-684282833-1046541076=:92499 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Did the Q class duplex ever run over eastern Panhandle rails, i.e., Pittsburgh to Mingo, or only on the Ft. Wayne, Conway and west?  Thanks.  Ron


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-684282833-1046541076=:92499-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:45:57 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] 4-digit N5's for M&E trains In a message dated 3/1/03 4:55:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:15:53 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > Some of the 5xxx cabins also were maked "For Passenger Service: Railway > Express Agency". > > Dominic Mazoch One email claimed that the 1945 roster was N5 Crew Express Cars 5001, 5010, 5011, 5012, 5013, 5015, 5018 (and up to 5032) with 2A-F5 trucks However, the December 1965 ORPTE (Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment) lists car numbers from 5001 to 5034. > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:40:35 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > The KEYSTONE had an article about these cabins. > > Dominic Mazoch > I've missed indexing that article -- anybody know which issue? BTW, I've seen pix of these N5's in NK4 paint (remember, the CK phase was cancelled for these cars) and with the extra "Railway Express Agency" lettering. I believe I've actually seen some in Futura. What I don't remember seeing is N5's in SK1b or PK with the extra lettering -- and yet, obviously the cars existed well into the PK period. I'm also surprised that Bowser hasn't released their N5 kit in one or more of these "passenger" letterings. Of course, we're talking about a handful of cabins in a sea of 600-odd N5's. But they're an interesting handful. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:46:09 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] 6 men in Indiana In a message dated 3/1/03 12:05:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:06:27 EST > > In a message dated 2/28/03 10:59:31 AM Central Standard Time, > bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > > << Locals around Chicago and other places always put the cabin behind the > engine so that the crew could easily converse with one another (in the > days before radios). >> > > Was gonna ask this on Pennsy West list, but there are probably enough > Indiana > spfs to answer it here. What was the Indiana rule for cabins (crews?) on > both headend and rearend? Locals only? Dates in effect? > > Bob Zoeller > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: "Randy Williamson" > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:08:55 -0600 > > --=====================_164931919==.ALT > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Bob, > > If my memory serves me correctly the law was if the train was over 69 cars > their had to be a swing brakeman added to the crew. > > Randy IIRC that was Indiana law, requiring the 6th man -- which generated such exotica as Monon's rider cars, which were often photographed right behind the engine. I don't know what era the law was rescinded, but pictures like this go well into the diesel era. Unfortunately, I'm still looking for pix that show PRR (or B&O, or NYC) trains in Indiana with a cabin cut in behind the tender or diesel consist. I have no knowledge of whether they carried 4 men in the engine, or 3 on the rear. BTW, saw a recent post that indicated New York state law may have also required an extra man under some conditions. Can anyone elaborate? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:46:09 EST Subject: [PRR] 6 men in Indiana --part1_50.18f4a13c.2b926801_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/03 12:05:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:06:27 EST > > In a message dated 2/28/03 10:59:31 AM Central Standard Time, > bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > > << Locals around Chicago and other places always put the cabin behind the > engine so that the crew could easily converse with one another (in the > days before radios). >> > > Was gonna ask this on Pennsy West list, but there are probably enough > Indiana > spfs to answer it here. What was the Indiana rule for cabins (crews?) on > both headend and rearend? Locals only? Dates in effect? > > Bob Zoeller > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: "Randy Williamson" > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:08:55 -0600 > > --=====================_164931919==.ALT > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Bob, > > If my memory serves me correctly the law was if the train was over 69 cars > their had to be a swing brakeman added to the crew. > > Randy IIRC that was Indiana law, requiring the 6th man -- which generated such exotica as Monon's rider cars, which were often photographed right behind the engine. I don't know what era the law was rescinded, but pictures like this go well into the diesel era. Unfortunately, I'm still looking for pix that show PRR (or B&O, or NYC) trains in Indiana with a cabin cut in behind the tender or diesel consist. I have no knowledge of whether they carried 4 men in the engine, or 3 on the rear. BTW, saw a recent post that indicated New York state law may have also required an extra man under some conditions. Can anyone elaborate? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_50.18f4a13c.2b926801_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/1/03 12:05:18 AM Eastern Standard= Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on fr= ont or back of train?
From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:06:27 EST

In a message dated 2/28/03 10:59:31 AM Central Standard Time,
bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes:

<< Locals around Chicago and other places always put the cabin behind=20= the
engine so that the crew could easily converse with one another (in the
days before radios). >>

Was gonna ask this on Pennsy West list, but there are probably enough Indian= a
spfs to answer it here.  What was the Indiana rule for cabins (crews?)=20= on
both headend and rearend?  Locals only?  Dates in effect?

Bob Zoeller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train?
From: "Randy Williamson" <pennsy@vbe.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:08:55 -0600

--=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_164931919= =3D=3D.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"; format=3Dflowed

Bob,

If my memory serves me correctly the law was if the train was over 69 cars <= BR> their had to be a swing brakeman added to the crew.

Randy


IIRC that was Indiana law, requiring the 6th man -- which generated such exo= tica as Monon's rider cars, which were often photographed right behind the e= ngine.  I don't know what era the law was rescinded, but pictures like=20= this go well into the diesel era.

Unfortunately, I'm still looking for pix that show PRR (or B&O, or NYC)=20= trains in Indiana with a cabin cut in behind the tender or diesel consist. I= have no knowledge of whether they carried 4 men in the engine, or 3 on the=20= rear.

BTW, saw a recent post that indicated New York state law may have also requi= red an extra man under some conditions.  Can anyone elaborate?

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_50.18f4a13c.2b926801_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:45:57 EST Subject: [PRR] 4-digit N5's for M&E trains --part1_41.2bc8edd4.2b9267f5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/03 4:55:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:15:53 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > Some of the 5xxx cabins also were maked "For Passenger Service: Railway > Express Agency". > > Dominic Mazoch One email claimed that the 1945 roster was N5 Crew Express Cars 5001, 5010, 5011, 5012, 5013, 5015, 5018 (and up to 5032) with 2A-F5 trucks However, the December 1965 ORPTE (Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment) lists car numbers from 5001 to 5034. > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:40:35 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > The KEYSTONE had an article about these cabins. > > Dominic Mazoch > I've missed indexing that article -- anybody know which issue? BTW, I've seen pix of these N5's in NK4 paint (remember, the CK phase was cancelled for these cars) and with the extra "Railway Express Agency" lettering. I believe I've actually seen some in Futura. What I don't remember seeing is N5's in SK1b or PK with the extra lettering -- and yet, obviously the cars existed well into the PK period. I'm also surprised that Bowser hasn't released their N5 kit in one or more of these "passenger" letterings. Of course, we're talking about a handful of cabins in a sea of 600-odd N5's. But they're an interesting handful. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_41.2bc8edd4.2b9267f5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/1/03 4:55:53 AM Eastern Standard=20= Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:15:53 -0600
   From: Dominic M Mazoch <domemt@juno.com>
Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains

Some of the 5xxx cabins also were maked "For Passenger Service:  Railwa= y
Express Agency".

Dominic Mazoch
<= BR>
One email claimed that the 1= 945 roster was

N5 Crew Express Cars 5001, 5010, 5011, 5012, 5013, 5015, 5018 (and up to 503= 2) with 2A-F5 trucks

However, the December 1965 ORPTE (Official Register of Passenger Train Equip= ment) lists car numbers from 5001 to 5034.



________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
   Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:40:35 -0600
   From: Dominic M Mazoch <domemt@juno.com>
Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains

The KEYSTONE had an article about these cabins.

Dominic Mazoch

I've missed indexing that article -- anybody know which issue?

BTW, I've seen pix of these N5's in NK4 paint (remember, the CK phase was ca= ncelled for these cars) and with the extra "Railway Express Agency" letterin= g.  I believe I've actually seen some in Futura.  What I don't rem= ember seeing is N5's in SK1b or PK with the extra lettering -- and yet, obvi= ously the cars existed well into the PK period.  I'm also surprised tha= t Bowser hasn't released their N5 kit in one or more of these "passenger" le= tterings.

Of course, we're talking about a handful of cabins in a sea of 600-odd N5's.=   But they're an interesting handful.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_41.2bc8edd4.2b9267f5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 16:09:22 -0500 Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent passenger car? I doubt those were sprung for drawbar forces, just to maintain contact with the next car. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claus Schlund" To: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > Hi list members, > > The buffers are intended to keep the coupler slack stretched > in a passenger train. This prevents a rough ride for the > passengers in the other cars of the train - you don't have the > "slam" effect of the slack running in and out. > > - Claus > > > > > I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. I > > too would like to know the function of the buffers. > > > > As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One > > plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub on > > the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their no-load, > > fully extended, configuration. > > > > If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across > > them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. > > > > Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped car? > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 16:34:20 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point From: Jerry Britton Last month MR previewed this months issue, promising drawings of a "Great Lakes Coal Pier". I speculated at the time that it "could" be the PRR's Sodus Point pier. My copy arrived today. It is indeed the PRR's coal pier at Sodus Point! Good to see the coverage. Haven't read the article yet, but will in a moment. BTW, a few years ago I purchased on eBay the valuation maps for the area. Shows not only the pier trackage and the trackage around the malt house, but also the harbor itself, complete with channel markers! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 13:36:47 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] New Locomotive movement --0-1738328278-1046554607=:30169 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination? I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going. Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"? Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished? Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination? Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails? What about diesels? Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1738328278-1046554607=:30169 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination?  I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going.  Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"?  Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished?  Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination?  Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails?  What about diesels?  Thanks.  Ron 


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1738328278-1046554607=:30169-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:15:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement From: aurora7@juno.com I'm sorry to lower the group, but I can't resist... The first thing I thought of when I read the subject header was, "Oh yeah, I've had one of those. Thought I passed a locomotive....." And now, back to our regular program. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "Life begins at 40, but so does arthritus and telling the same story over three times." _Sam Levenson ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:48:58 -0500 GROAN!! I can see cabin fever is setting in. Next thing you know it'll be mud season up here. What will that bring? Wasn't this a thread a few months ago?? Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > I'm sorry to lower the group, but I can't resist... > > The first thing I thought of when I read the subject header was, "Oh > yeah, I've had one of those. Thought I passed a locomotive....." > > And now, back to our regular program. > > Richard Glueck > Peace of the Planet Farm > Winterport, Maine > > "Life begins at 40, but so does arthritus and telling the same story over > three times." _Sam Levenson > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 15:01:13 -0800 From: Ken Douglas Subject: [PRR] Re: New Locomotives Baldwins were delivered directly since the PRR served the plant on-line. They may have been set up by the BLW/BLH service engineer either at Philly or their in service location. I witnessed the EMD service engineer set up three GP30 units at 59th Street in Chicago. They had been shipped dead to Colhour Yard in Indiana for turning over the PRR. This was to avoid Illinois taxes. Alcos were shipped down dead from Schenectady, often by the D&H at Buttonwood yard in Wilkes-Barre. I do not know if they were set up where they were given to the PRR. I do not know how the FM or GE units went to the PRR. Of course the units built at Erie could have been shipped to the PRR via the NYC. Ken Douglas ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 18:14:57 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Hi Fred, You asked: > Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent passenger > car? No, the buffer does not touch the diaphragm of the next car. The buffer touches the buffer of the next car. You are confusing the diaphragm with the buffer. The diaphragm and the buffer are not the same thing. The diaphragm is what passengers walk thru. It probably has only very light spring action. The buffer is what keeps the slack stretched. It has a strong spring action. The only thing they have in common is they are both on the end of the car. As the R50b shows, you can have a buffer even if you don't have a diaphragm! - Claus > Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent passenger > car? I doubt those were sprung for drawbar forces, just to maintain contact > with the next car. > > Fred > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Claus Schlund" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > > > > Hi list members, > > > > The buffers are intended to keep the coupler slack stretched > > in a passenger train. This prevents a rough ride for the > > passengers in the other cars of the train - you don't have the > > "slam" effect of the slack running in and out. > > > > - Claus > > > > > > > > > I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. > I > > > too would like to know the function of the buffers. > > > > > > As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One > > > plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub > on > > > the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their > no-load, > > > fully extended, configuration. > > > > > > If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across > > > them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. > > > > > > Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped > car? > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GFPat420@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 22:12:04 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: Buffers and diaphrams I don't want to start a revolution, but my understanding of the buffer is to provide the walkway, as in from one car to the other. The diaphragms provide the sides and top cover of the walk way, in effect. The older style was canvas diaphragms with a metal plate. Some commuter properties use rubber tubes. Amfleet cars had a kind of foam-filled rubber-covered affair, with a composition (Gatke) facing. At any rate, the buffer springs are nothing, compared to the draft gear. Tight lock couplers minimize slack action between cars. George in Baltimore ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 22:19:56 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer The NY Central Hudson tenders had buffers over their couplers. Steve Bartlett Claus Schlund wrote: ....... As the R50b shows, you can have a buffer even if you don't have a diaphragm! - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Garry Spear Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: New Locomotives Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 22:57:41 -0500 >> >> Snip >> I do not know how the FM or GE units went to the PRR. Of course the units built at Erie could have been shipped to the PRR via the NYC. Ken Douglas The units built at Erie were delivered to the PRR at Erie. Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 23:19:29 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: New Locomotives Garry's right about the GE units being delivered to the PRR at Erie. The GE's East Erie Commercial RR had a direct connection to the PRR via the P&E's 10th Street Branch. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 01:44:43 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Rea" To: "Claus Schlund" Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:42 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > Are you saying there are buffers that do keep the slack out on passenger > cars? Never realized that. I appreciate the correction. I always assumed > what was under my feet as I passed between cars was just a walk way, and the > tight lock couplers reduced the slack action. > > Did cars like passenger service X29s have them too? > > Fred > > PS They still still seem way too long on the Walthers cars. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Claus Schlund" > To: "Fred Rea" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 9:14 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > You asked: > > > > > Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent > passenger > > > car? > > > > No, the buffer does not touch the diaphragm of > > the next car. The buffer touches the buffer of the next car. > > > > You are confusing the diaphragm with the buffer. > > > > The diaphragm and the buffer are not the same thing. > > > > The diaphragm is what passengers walk thru. It probably > > has only very light spring action. > > > > The buffer is what keeps the slack stretched. It has > > a strong spring action. > > > > The only thing they have in common is they are > > both on the end of the car. > > > > As the R50b shows, you can have a buffer even if you don't > > have a diaphragm! > > > > - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 00:00:10 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Reefer Hi Fred, > Are you saying there are buffers that do keep the slack out on passenger > cars? Correct. > Never realized that. I appreciate the correction. I always assumed > what was under my feet as I passed between cars was just a walk way, and the > tight lock couplers reduced the slack action. > > Did cars like passenger service X29s have them too? No, the X29 fleet did not have them. I will mention that the X29 fleet was not liked by some shippers and railroads (other than the PRR of course) because they had a reputation for being rough-riding. The lack of buffers may have contributed to this. While not universal, milk cars almost always had buffers just like the R50b did. I don't know for sure about REA express reefers. In N scale, "Details by Eric" makes a buffer as a detail part. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 06:59:13 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] CABOOSE HANDRAIL PAINTING PRR TALK, Can anyone tell me when the PRR started to paint the hand-rails & grab-irons YELLOW on their N-5b cabins? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 07:42:09 EST Subject: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) --part1_9c.2e7ec995.2b935621_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen, I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR Arranged Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in the Conrail era). However, I lack documentation that tells me: 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in the Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_9c.2e7ec995.2b935621_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen,

I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc.  as the successor to PRR Arrange= d Freight Schedules.  I know that Conrail used
xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard
xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ
xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in the C= onrail era).

However, I lack documentation that tells me:
1. what origin point was assigned letters PX?  Context says it's in the= Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH (Coleh= our), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yar= d), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW= Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC= Clearing Yard).

2.  in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run?

The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because Conrail n= ormally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the Chicago area=20= -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", allowing the Big Split= between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via Pittsburgh and Harrisbu= rg to be made right there.  Thus, trains dispatched from the Chicago ar= ea and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special...



Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_9c.2e7ec995.2b935621_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:27:24 EST Subject: [PRR] Passenger car photos --part1_ac.3aafeb7b.2b9360bc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car heading. Note in the one shot of the "B50B" (actually R50B) the "Altoona" box car to the right of the express reefer. Anyone have info. on this box car? Evan Leisey --part1_ac.3aafeb7b.2b9360bc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car heading= . 

Note in the one shot of the "B50B" (actually R50B) the "Altoona" box car to= the right of the express reefer.  Anyone have info. on this box car?
Evan Leisey --part1_ac.3aafeb7b.2b9360bc_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 & K5 Differences Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 08:51:46 -0500 Posted the parts list to my website for anyone to down load. Here is the link. http://groups.msn.com/Samstoys/files.msnw Sam Vastano _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 06:50:23 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Union Transportation Co., next question --- AHARTPRR137@aol.com wrote: > wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > > > How long after 1956 did the U. T. Co. continue to > > exist? Does it still exist? > > The last run was made on March 31, 1977 [...] U. T. Co. officially > dissolved on May 23, 1981. Can anyone say why the U. T. Co. was incorporated. The ICC report seems to say that it came into being for the express purpose of leasing and operating the Pemberton Branch of the P&A. That seems to me to be backwards. Big company leases little company's property seems to be the usual course. So, what was the reason for leasing the branch and operating it as a separate entity? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: [PRR] MoPac head end car Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 10:34:08 -0500 Back in mid-January there was a thread discussing an unidentified head end car shown (near Cove, I believe) in one of the many PRR videos. Seems we collectively decided it was a MoPac car based on the apparent blue/white paint scheme and that it was very similar looking to a B60b. I was just watching Herron's Pennsylvania Glory Volume 2 and about midway through the tape on the last shot in Altoona (just before the Horseshoe Curve segment) is a fairly clear shot of one of these cars sitting on a siding just behind the L1 being featured in the shot. It is clearly (to my eye) a MoPac car. It appears to look very similar to a B60b. It also has what appear to be narrow vertical black stripes the length of the car, but they could be shadows. I can see that the doors have square windows. Now to research the MoPac to see what kind of car this is. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger car photos Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 11:38:26 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2E0B0.3D6832A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Evan: I don't think I'm getting all the emails. =20 Where is this "Passenger car heading ??? All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:27 AM Subject: [PRR] Passenger car photos Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car heading. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2E0B0.3D6832A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Evan:  I don't = think I'm getting=20 all the emails. 
 
Where is this = "Passenger car heading=20 ???
 
All the best to you and yours      =20 Weldon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 = 8:27=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Passenger car = photos

Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car=20 heading. 

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2E0B0.3D6832A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac head end car Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:00:48 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Breon" I was just watching Herron's Pennsylvania Glory Volume 2 and about > midway through the tape on the last shot in Altoona (just before the > Horseshoe Curve segment) is a fairly clear shot of one of these cars sitting on a siding just behind the L1 being featured in the shot. Sorry, it's an I1sa rather than an L1 being featured. My mistake. Jerry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Panza" Subject: Re: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:26:14 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2E0B6.EA8D3E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I remember the PXEN passing through Altoona in the late afternoon and at = that time there was a mechanic from Merchants Despatch who monitored the = train. The PX was the abbreviation for Perishable Express. With the = volume of UPFE reefers, I suspect that it originated at Proviso Yard on = what was then C&NW. Does anyone have a copy of the book "Conrail = Commodities" that can confirm this? Was this the stepchild of CG-8 or = CG-2? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RickTipton@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:42 AM Subject: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Gentlemen, I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR = Arranged Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used=20 xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ=20 xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in = the Conrail era). However, I lack documentation that tells me: 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in = the Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH = (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF = Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW = Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF = Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because = Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the = Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", = allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines = via Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains = dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be = something special... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2E0B6.EA8D3E70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I remember the PXEN passing through = Altoona in the=20 late afternoon and at that time there was a mechanic from Merchants = Despatch who=20 monitored the train.  The PX was the abbreviation for Perishable=20 Express.  With the volume of UPFE reefers, I suspect that it = originated at=20 Proviso Yard on what was then C&NW.  Does anyone have a copy of = the=20 book "Conrail Commodities" that can confirm this?  Was this the = stepchild=20 of CG-8 or CG-2?
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RickTipton@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 = 6:42=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and = PXPI=20 (Arranged Freight Schedules)

Gentlemen,

I keep seeing references to = PXEN,=20 etc.  as the successor to PRR Arranged Freight Schedules.  I = know=20 that Conrail used
xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard
xxCA = for=20 trains destined to Camden NJ
xxPI for trains destined to = Pittsburgh (but=20 specifically for Conway in the Conrail era).

However, I lack=20 documentation that tells me:
1. what origin point was assigned = letters=20 PX?  Context says it's in the Chicago area, where other origin = yards=20 included FN (59th Street), CH (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the = Chicago=20 Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF = (55th=20 Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South = Chicago), SF=20 (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard).

2.  = in what=20 period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run?

The answers to these questions are particulary = interesting=20 because Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic = from=20 the Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", = allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines = via=20 Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there.  Thus, trains=20 dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be = something=20 special...



Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the = Pennsylvania=20 Railroad and especially PRR Lines West = ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2E0B6.EA8D3E70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 11:56:22 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement --0-181512674-1046634982=:91049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc. For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron Ronald Di Orio wrote:How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination? I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going. Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"? Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished? Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination? Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails? What about diesels? Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-181512674-1046634982=:91049 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase.  What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc.  For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails?  Thanks again, Ron

 

 Ronald Di Orio <prr2249@yahoo.com> wrote:

How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination?  I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going.  Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"?  Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished?  Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination?  Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails?  What about diesels?  Thanks.  Ron 


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-181512674-1046634982=:91049-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Trichtinger" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:18:02 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Di Orio" To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 14:56 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > > Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc. For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron In Worley & Poellot's book on the Pittsburgh & West Virginia, they note that the P&WV Baldwin J Class 2-6-6-4s were run under their own power on the PRR to be delivered to the P&WV. It doesn't say whether they were interchanged at Clairton or Bridgeville, but I suspect the former. Nor does it say whether they hauled any Pennsy freight during the delivery runs. Peace Kevin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 17:03:07 -0500 I heard that some larger locomotives were routed over the PRR's Philadelphia & Erie branch to avoid tight curves & tunnels on the main line. Does anyone have more info about that? --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Trichtinger" To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ronald Di Orio" > To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; "PRR Talk" > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 14:56 > Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > > > > > > Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, > but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. What I > was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc. > For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how > did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron > > In Worley & Poellot's book on the Pittsburgh & West Virginia, they note that > the P&WV Baldwin J Class 2-6-6-4s were run under their own power on the PRR > to be delivered to the P&WV. It doesn't say whether they were interchanged > at Clairton or Bridgeville, but I suspect the former. Nor does it say > whether they hauled any Pennsy freight during the delivery runs. > > Peace > Kevin > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 18:14:30 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2E0E7.91A0D8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ron & List, As has been mentioned by others, steam power was occasionally deliverted = under power. In addition to the P&WV locos mentioned, the History of the = RF&P, issued by that road, shows photographs of the RF&P 4-8-4's being = delivered by the PRR (and B&O) under their own steam from Baldwin at = Eddystone to Potomac Yard. OTOH, an article in "Trains" described delivery of SP Cab Forwards = indicating they were hauled dead-in-tow from Eddystone all the way to El = Paso, TX, before the main rods were attached and they were steamed up. With Diesels, a great deal depends on the ralationship of the owning = railroad with the railroad serving the manufacturer, the type of = locomotive (are crews familiar with it?), and the need for additional = power as opposed to additional revenue. I once tried to get CSXT to use = three GP15-T's bought from EMD in 1983, but they insisted on hauling = them dead in tow and charging us, saying they were not suitable power = for Chicago-Florida trains.. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ronald Di Orio=20 To: Ronald Di Orio ; PRR Talk=20 Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the = PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. = What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by = Baldwin, etc. For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or = SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron=20 =20 Ronald Di Orio wrote:=20 How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the = manufacturer to their eventual destination? I am thinking specifically = of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco = that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they = were eventually going. Was the whole order or part of it coupled = together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"? Or were single = locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished? Were locomotives = moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added = at destination? Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and = transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling = a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy = rails? What about diesels? Thanks. Ron =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2E0E7.91A0D8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ron & List,
 
As has been mentioned by others, steam power was = occasionally=20 deliverted under power. In addition to the P&WV locos mentioned, the = History=20 of the RF&P, issued by that road, shows photographs of the RF&P = 4-8-4's=20 being delivered by the PRR (and B&O) under their own steam from = Baldwin at=20 Eddystone to Potomac Yard.
 
OTOH, an article in "Trains" described delivery of = SP Cab=20 Forwards indicating they were hauled dead-in-tow from Eddystone all the = way to=20 El Paso, TX, before the main rods were attached and they were steamed=20 up.
 
With Diesels, a great deal depends on the = ralationship of the=20 owning railroad with the railroad serving the manufacturer, the type of=20 locomotive (are crews familiar with it?), and the need for additional = power as=20 opposed to additional revenue. I once tried to get CSXT to use three = GP15-T's=20 bought from EMD in 1983, but they insisted on hauling them dead in tow = and=20 charging us, saying they were not suitable power for Chicago-Florida=20 trains..
 
Gregg Mahlkov
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ronald = Di Orio=20
To: Ronald Di Orio ; PRR = Talk
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 = 2:56=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] New = Locomotive=20 movement

Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the = PRR, but=20 I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase.  = What I was=20 talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, = etc. =20 For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, = how did=20 it travel over Pennsy rails?  Thanks again, Ron=20

=20

 Ronald Di Orio <prr2249@yahoo.com> = wrote:=20 How=20 did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the = manufacturer to=20 their eventual destination?  I am thinking specifically of all = the=20 locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would = appear=20 to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were = eventually=20 going.  Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and = hauled=20 off, like the "Prosperity Special"?  Or were single = locomotives,=20 or two's and three's shipped as finished?  Were = locomotives moved=20 complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added = at=20 destination?  Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and=20 transported under their own power, either as individual units or = pulling a=20 train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy = rails?  What about diesels?  Thanks.  Ron =20


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Yahoo!=20 Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and = more ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2E0E7.91A0D8E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jedalberg@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:06:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) The PXEN/PXSE originated at Blue Island on the IHB. I was working at Enola in '78, and the PXEN would arrive in the late evening / early am and would have to be humped immediatelly, as there were usually 5-7 reefers to make the ENPG; which if I recall left about 6am. Reefers were for the Phila Produce Market. The cars would naturally be spread throughout the train, so you couldn't just swing a block (also naturally) to the outbound. As time went on the train became less (and less) reliable--hey, if we just hold it for 20min (always takes at least an hour!) at X, we can add these empty hoppers--and it became another junk freight. Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:24:12 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Ronald Di Orio wrote: > Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I Ron, I plan to model soem of these movements with Dead in tow locos. There are a number of pictures of Baldwin products on Manor Siding in Columbia. They were dropped there as it was an excellent place for a Baldwin rep to have access to check out the bearings to make sure that they weren't overheating (Eddystone-Perryville, onto the C&PD - Columbia - onto the A&S to Enola and points west. My guess is that the majority of deliveries were hauled dead, as running live would have required a Baldwin engineers to run the loco (since the PRR engineer wasn't qualified) and a PRR engineer to be the "guide" since the Balwindman was qualified on that section of the railroad... In the photos I've seen, the rods are off, the stacks covered and the headlights, and sometime windows are covered with wood. Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:25:51 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac head end car In a message dated 3/2/03 9:40:46 AM Central Standard Time, jbreon@email.msn.com writes: << It also has what appear to be narrow vertical black stripes the length of the car, but they could be shadows. >> Are you sure the cars are only 60 feet? They may have used both 60 and 70 footers. In any case there were several types and I too have seen some with the "vertical black stripes". I don't know if those are heavy rivet lines or plated over windows in a coach or other car converted to baggage and express service. There is a picture in Trackside around Chicago which seems to really look like they are plated over windows. One car even looks like it has an old vestibule plated over. I agree we need to get the MOP guys to chime in. And there is the complication of any differences with same paint job Texas and Pacific cars also used. I'll ask on the PCL list. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: USMCnewdog25431@cs.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 23:37:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Cars --part1_31.34ed80fd.2b9435fe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was just reading in a Keystone from the late 1980s, and it was stated that this was done when they were switching to a different cabin for that train then the crew could change over their gear during regular working hours! Cant waste any time stopped! :) I believe this was a personal account. Mike Schock Sandusky, Ohio --part1_31.34ed80fd.2b9435fe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was just reading in a Keystone from the late 1980s,=20= and it was stated that this was done when they were switching to a different= cabin for that train then the crew could change over their gear during regu= lar working hours!  Cant waste any time stopped! :)  I believe thi= s was a personal account.

Mike Schock
Sandusky, Ohio
 --part1_31.34ed80fd.2b9435fe_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 07:56:42 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Gil Reid PRRT&HS PR Manager Frank Kuhn prepared the following for me for the " e-NEWS. " In as much as it will not go out until March 21st I'm forwarding it to the PRR lists early so those of you who know Gil get the word sooner. Al ====================== On February 24th Legendary Rail Artist Gil Reid suffered a heart attack at his home in Brookfield , WI and was taken to Waukesha Memorial Hospital to under go open heart surgery . He was operated on February 27th and came through with flying colors. Doctors were amazed that an 85 year old man survived the attack and surgery . Gil is now resting and is in fine fettle. He was moved from ICU on Saturday, March 1st to a regular room. As most of us know Gil has been painting our and his beloved PRR since 1935. Anybody wishing to send a card or best wishes may send it to Mr. Gil Reid , 18455 Harvest Lane Brookfield, WI 53045-5446. Gil has recieved many awards but his most cherished is the award we the PRRT&HS gave him in 2001 . . On talking to him Sunday afternoon (March 2nd) I asked how he felt, his replied - " Like A K4 after a Boiler wash ! " Only Gil! He should resume his normal routine in a few months . So let's show Gil we care, as we all know a get well card is great medicine . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 07:56:42 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] Gil Reid This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_SEWb7tXVEto+8vdUKjKO1Q) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT PRRT&HS PR Manager Frank Kuhn prepared the following for me for the " e-NEWS. " In as much as it will not go out until March 21st I'm forwarding it to the PRR lists early so those of you who know Gil get the word sooner. Al ====================== On February 24th Legendary Rail Artist Gil Reid suffered a heart attack at his home in Brookfield , WI and was taken to Waukesha Memorial Hospital to under go open heart surgery . He was operated on February 27th and came through with flying colors. Doctors were amazed that an 85 year old man survived the attack and surgery . Gil is now resting and is in fine fettle. He was moved from ICU on Saturday, March 1st to a regular room. As most of us know Gil has been painting our and his beloved PRR since 1935. Anybody wishing to send a card or best wishes may send it to Mr. Gil Reid , 18455 Harvest Lane Brookfield, WI 53045-5446. Gil has recieved many awards but his most cherished is the award we the PRRT&HS gave him in 2001 . . On talking to him Sunday afternoon (March 2nd) I asked how he felt, his replied - " Like A K4 after a Boiler wash ! " Only Gil! He should resume his normal routine in a few months . So let's show Gil we care, as we all know a get well card is great medicine . --Boundary_(ID_SEWb7tXVEto+8vdUKjKO1Q) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message
 
 PRRT&HS PR Manager Frank Kuhn prepared the following for me for the  " e-NEWS. "   In as much as it will not go out until March 21st I'm forwarding it to the PRR lists early so those of you who know Gil get the word sooner.
 
Al 
======================
 
On February 24th Legendary Rail Artist Gil Reid  suffered a heart attack at his home in Brookfield , WI and was taken to Waukesha Memorial Hospital to under go  open  heart  surgery .  He was operated on February 27th and came through with flying colors. Doctors were amazed  that an  85 year old man survived the attack and surgery . Gil is now resting and is in fine fettle. He was moved from ICU on Saturday, March 1st  to a regular room. As most of us know Gil has been painting  our and his  beloved PRR since 1935. Anybody wishing to send a card or best wishes may send  it to Mr. Gil Reid ,  18455 Harvest Lane Brookfield, WI 53045-5446. Gil has recieved many awards but his most cherished is the award we the PRRT&HS gave him in 2001 . . On talking to him Sunday afternoon  (March 2nd)  I asked how he felt, his replied  -  " Like A K4 after a Boiler wash ! "  Only Gil! He should resume his normal routine in a few months . So let's show Gil  we care, as we all know a get well card is great medicine .