From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] E-Bay item 3110068040 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:24:44 -0500 The Walther's Jordan spreader kit is very much like a PRR Jorden spreader I photographed and measured on a siding in Lancaster, Pa. many years ago. Walther's model was close enough to the real thing that I decided not to bother kitbashing. No, I don't know where the photos are at the moment. I bought several kits and built two and still have one unbuilt. I didn't have problems with mine although I used mine in well detailed static displays set up close to the edge of the layout. Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce F Smith" To: "Ronald Di Orio" Cc: "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Modeling" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] E-Bay item 3110068040 > On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Ronald Di Orio wrote: > > > Is this an accurate model of a PRR prototype, either the crane (or should I > say derrick) or the boom car? What about the paint scheme? It would seem to > me that the crane should be all black, and that cranes were never painted > either grey or yellow. If model is indeed accurate, what were the classes of > the equipment and possible numbers? And speaking of MOW equipment, did the PRR > ever have Jordan spreaders like the one offered by Walthers in HO? > > Ronald, > > The PRR did have 250 ton Derricks, although the Bachman model is > relatively crude and certainly doesn't look like Pennsy's. Among the > problems I note right away are the grossly out of scale main hook and the > extra tall stack. As you note, the derrick should be black, and that boom > car...that's amusing...a truss rod car with a 250 ton > derrick...interesting...accurate??? (probably not) Boom cars were usually > modified steel flat cars (class FM, FGR, FGRA) or gons (GR, GRA). The > only "boom cars" I know of with the little house on them were the class > FXL cars used as idler cars for crawler cranes. > > As for Jordan spreaders, the answer is a cautious yes. PRR Color Guide 3 > has a photo of Jordan 497404, built May 1929 that appears to have a > similar front blade. It is difficult to tell, but it appears to have a > wood sheathed cab. I would caution you that the Walthers kit is > relatively poorly engineered. I had a great deal of difficulty witht hte > mounting of the blade mechanism, as it couldn't support its own weight. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: [PRR] Power Generation Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:27:39 -0500 I understand that the blower motors in the Tunnel Hill area were originally powered by steam generated electricity and later replaced by the current diesel powered genereating equipment. Can anyone give me an idea of when this change occurred? Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 09:13:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Power Generation From: "Jerry @ Pennsyrr" on 2/1/03 8:27 AM, parkvarieties at parkvarieties@provide.net wrote: > I understand that the blower motors in the Tunnel Hill area were originally > powered by steam generated electricity and later replaced by the current > diesel powered genereating equipment. Can anyone > give me an idea of when this change occurred? Thanks. I can't pin down an exact era, but everything tells me it was done prior to 1954. I suspect late '40's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Regional Superintendent, PRR Eastern Region Modeling the PRR in September 1954 http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:25:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Feb 1,1968...35 years ago today It was 35 years ago today that the Pennsylvania RR and the New York Central RR merged into Penn Central. The PRR officiallly became a "fallen flag"..............and the rest is history. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Feb 1,1968...35 years ago today Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:46:56 -0500 Did ya havta remind us??? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 9:25 AM Subject: [PRR] Feb 1,1968...35 years ago today > > It was 35 years ago today that the Pennsylvania RR and the New > York Central RR merged into Penn Central. The PRR officiallly became a > "fallen flag"..............and the rest is history. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:12:26 EST Subject: [PRR] Items for Sale,paper,books,n scale --part1_42.34763573.2b6d3dda_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the=20 above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp. PRR CT 1000E May,1945-Good cond with Phila Div pages=20 =A0=A0 notched out along edge. $ 30 PRR CT 1000C May,1945-Very good cond,slight wear on bottom spine and cover =A0 corners from shelf wear=A0=A0 $ 85 PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20 PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6 PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $300 PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6 PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5 PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,=20 =A0=A0 dated 1-1-60=A0 $35 PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5 PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5 PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5 PRR Annual Report-1930 $30 PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25 PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12 PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15 PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50 PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.1, 10-25-64,Used,cover there,not attached, =A0 has all G.O.'s=A0 $18=A0=20 PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $22 PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents, =A0 75 cents=A0 $10 bk=20 PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5 PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30 PRR N-Scale Atlas SD35-#6025 & 6018,New,Not run,SELL AS A PAIR=A0 $95 PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18 PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12 PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5 PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16 PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section=20 =A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20=20 PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40 PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40 CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40 CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & logo= =A0=20 $40 CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2 reg style=A0 $15 CR Annual Report-1987=A0 $12 CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo but other wise excellent.=A0 $30 Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight cars,old former camp cars, =A0 some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heavy=A0 $40=A0=20 Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0=20 $55pr EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $15 Thank you. Pat McKinney --part1_42.34763573.2b6d3dda_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List
=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp.

PRR CT 1000E May,1945-Good cond with Phila Div pages
=A0=A0 notched out along edge. $ 30
PRR CT 1000C May,1945-Very good cond,slight wear on bottom spine and cover =A0 corners from shelf wear=A0=A0 $ 85
PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20=
PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6
PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $300
PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6<= /B>
PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5
PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,
=A0=A0 dated 1-1-60=A0 $3= 5
PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5
PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5
PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5
PRR Annual Report-1930 $3= 0
PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25
PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12
PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15
PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50
PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.1, 10-25-64,Used,cover there,not attached,
=A0 has all G.O.'s=A0 $18= =A0
PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $22
PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents,
=A0 75 cents=A0 $10 bk
PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5
PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30
PRR N-Scale Atlas SD35-#6025 & 6018,New,Not run,SELL AS A PAIR=A0 $95
PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18
PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12
PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5<= BR> PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16=
PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section
=A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20
PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40<= BR> PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40=
CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40
CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & l= ogo=A0 $40
CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2= reg style=A0 $15<= FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY= =3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">
CR Annual Report-1987=A0 = $12
CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo
but other wise excellent.=A0 $30
Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight cars,old former camp cars, =A0 some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heavy=A0 $40=A0
Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0 $55pr
EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $= 15

Thank you.
Pat McKinney



 --part1_42.34763573.2b6d3dda_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:12:26 EST Subject: [PRR] Items for Sale,paper,books,n scale --part1_42.34763573.2b6d3dda_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the=20 above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp. PRR CT 1000E May,1945-Good cond with Phila Div pages=20 =A0=A0 notched out along edge. $ 30 PRR CT 1000C May,1945-Very good cond,slight wear on bottom spine and cover =A0 corners from shelf wear=A0=A0 $ 85 PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20 PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6 PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $300 PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6 PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5 PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,=20 =A0=A0 dated 1-1-60=A0 $35 PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5 PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5 PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5 PRR Annual Report-1930 $30 PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25 PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12 PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15 PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50 PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.1, 10-25-64,Used,cover there,not attached, =A0 has all G.O.'s=A0 $18=A0=20 PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $22 PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents, =A0 75 cents=A0 $10 bk=20 PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5 PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30 PRR N-Scale Atlas SD35-#6025 & 6018,New,Not run,SELL AS A PAIR=A0 $95 PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18 PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12 PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5 PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16 PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section=20 =A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20=20 PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40 PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40 CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40 CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & logo= =A0=20 $40 CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2 reg style=A0 $15 CR Annual Report-1987=A0 $12 CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo but other wise excellent.=A0 $30 Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight cars,old former camp cars, =A0 some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heavy=A0 $40=A0=20 Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0=20 $55pr EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $15 Thank you. Pat McKinney --part1_42.34763573.2b6d3dda_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List
=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp.

PRR CT 1000E May,1945-Good cond with Phila Div pages
=A0=A0 notched out along edge. $ 30
PRR CT 1000C May,1945-Very good cond,slight wear on bottom spine and cover =A0 corners from shelf wear=A0=A0 $ 85
PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20=
PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6
PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $300
PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6<= /B>
PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5
PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,
=A0=A0 dated 1-1-60=A0 $3= 5
PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5
PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5
PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5
PRR Annual Report-1930 $3= 0
PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25
PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12
PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15
PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50
PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.1, 10-25-64,Used,cover there,not attached,
=A0 has all G.O.'s=A0 $18= =A0
PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $22
PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents,
=A0 75 cents=A0 $10 bk
PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5
PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30
PRR N-Scale Atlas SD35-#6025 & 6018,New,Not run,SELL AS A PAIR=A0 $95
PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18
PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12
PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5<= BR> PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16=
PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section
=A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20
PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40<= BR> PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40=
CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40
CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & l= ogo=A0 $40
CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2= reg style=A0 $15<= FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY= =3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">
CR Annual Report-1987=A0 = $12
CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo
but other wise excellent.=A0 $30
Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight cars,old former camp cars, =A0 some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heavy=A0 $40=A0
Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0 $55pr
EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $= 15

Thank you.
Pat McKinney



 --part1_42.34763573.2b6d3dda_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:21:09 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Feb 1,1968...35 years ago today In a message dated 2/1/03 8:56:38 AM, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: << It was 35 years ago today that the Pennsylvania RR and the New York Central RR merged into Penn Central. The PRR officiallly became a "fallen flag"..............and the rest is history. >> I have to take some of the responsibility for this. I told them in late 1966 that I wanted a raise and an official promotion to the position I was actually filling, along with my own job. They declined and said that I was, of course, free to find another job. I warned them that, if I left, it was downhill from there for the Pennsy. They said that it was a risk they would have to take (at least, that is how I remember it now). So, I found another job and left the PRR effective October 14, 1966. And, about 15 months later, the PRR ceased to exist. Most of my colleagues in the administrative areas went to the merged company. And, for the next couple of years where I kept some contacts, I heard nothing but stories of the friction between the red team and the green team. What I am not sure of is how, when or why the Penn Central failed. And, since I never worked for the outfit, I've never bothered to check. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:18:15 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR class POS211 Ods --0-688077495-1044119895=:89437 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There is information on kitbashing a POS211 from AHM cars at http://varnish.pennsyrr.com/PRROBS.html. Others have already sent you the names. Ron John Sheets wrote:PRR Class POS 211 2 Drawing room/1 Comparment/1 DBR Observations Pullman Built were numbered car 8421-8427 Did they also have names? TIA John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-688077495-1044119895=:89437 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

There is information on kitbashing a POS211 from AHM cars at http://varnish.pennsyrr.com/PRROBS.html. Others have already sent you the names.   Ron

 John Sheets <john@mpa-inc.com> wrote:

PRR Class POS 211 2 Drawing room/1 Comparment/1 DBR Observations

Pullman Built were numbered car 8421-8427

Did they also have names?

TIA
John


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-688077495-1044119895=:89437-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 12:27:17 -0500 From: Ken Meyer Subject: Re: [PRR] Feb 1,1968...35 years ago today Long live the Pennsylvania Railroad. zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > It was 35 years ago today that the Pennsylvania RR and the New >York Central RR merged into Penn Central. The PRR officiallly became a >"fallen flag"..............and the rest is history. > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:31:20 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Bowser I1 "RealisM' --0-1729054476-1044120680=:49890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Check out the photos of I-1s in Pennsy Power. The three sets of blind drivers are clearly visible, and as you mentioned, appear awfully wide. Ron VVA249@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 1/31/03 12:14:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, thayden@keithley.com writes: I see several good suggestions about replacing the 2 and 4 blind drivers with flanged drivers. I think that would make the model look more realistic. In terms of "realism" It's been a while since I visited the sole surviving I-1 in Buffalo but, as I recall, the last "Real" one (which should be some measure of "realism") had three axles worth of "blinded" drivers. Center axle had blind tires which must have been 10" wide --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1729054476-1044120680=:49890 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Check out the photos of I-1s in Pennsy Power.  The three sets of blind drivers are clearly visible, and as you mentioned, appear awfully wide.   Ron

 VVA249@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 1/31/03 12:14:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, thayden@keithley.com writes:


I see several good suggestions about replacing the 2 and 4 blind drivers
with flanged drivers. I think that would make the model look more
realistic.

In terms of "realism"


It's been a while since I visited the sole surviving I-1 in Buffalo but, as I recall, the
last "Real" one (which should be some measure of "realism")
had three axles worth of "blinded" drivers.


Center axle had blind tires which must have been 10" wide




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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1729054476-1044120680=:49890-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:41:07 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] P-54 Coaches, X42 express boxes --0-657539002-1044121267=:37408 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 1. P-54 coaches. Were these used in suburban service anywhere in the Pittsburgh area, either before or after the electrification of the Main Line to Paoli? For that matter, were the coaches used as non electrified coaches anywhere other than in the Philadelphia-New York metro area? 2. Express Box X42 (Car nos. 2540-2549). Anyone know where I can find plans or at least major dimensions? Have a a couple of photographs, that's not the problem. Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-657539002-1044121267=:37408 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

1.  P-54 coaches.  Were these used in suburban service anywhere in the Pittsburgh area, either before or after the electrification of the Main Line to Paoli?  For that matter, were the coaches used as non electrified coaches anywhere other than in the Philadelphia-New York metro area?

2.  Express Box X42 (Car nos. 2540-2549).  Anyone know where I can find plans or at least major dimensions?  Have a a couple of photographs, that's not the problem.

Thanks.  Ron

 


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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-657539002-1044121267=:37408-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Don Millbranth" Subject: [PRR] PRR Items for Sale Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:49:13 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0460_01C2C9F0.52B1C030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have one item left for sale on e-Bay, item #2156403574 (4 PRR Time = Tables) . Other items will be forthcoming in the near future. Thanks.. Don ------=_NextPart_000_0460_01C2C9F0.52B1C030 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks..
Don
------=_NextPart_000_0460_01C2C9F0.52B1C030-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Phil Paskos" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Bowser I1 "RealisM' Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:44:24 -0500 The 2 basic reasons blind drivers are wide is because they are normally made that way by cutting the flanges off. This increases the effective width of the wheels and for good reason if you are going to run on tight a tight radius turn. They could jam on the rails and cause a derailment. They don't look good, But... If you all know this I apologize for preaching to the "choir" . Phil > > Check out the photos of I-1s in Pennsy Power. The three sets of blind drivers are clearly visible, and as you mentioned, appear awfully wide. Ron > VVA249@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 1/31/03 12:14:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, thayden@keithley.com writes: > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:20:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] P-54 Coaches, X42 express boxes Hi Ronald, Ronald asked: > 1. P-54 coaches. Were these used in suburban service anywhere > in the Pittsburgh area, either before or after the electrification > of the Main Line to Paoli? I don't know. > For that matter, were the coaches used as non electrified > coaches anywhere other than in the Philadelphia-New York metro area? Apparently yes. "Pennsy Power" by Stauffer pg 136 bottom shows a train of three P54 coaches behind E7s 8588, dated Aug 4, 1929 leaving Union Station, Chicago. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR class POS211 Ods Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:24:58 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0728_01C2C9E4.8DA4CEF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of the cars has been made AMTRAK compatible and is currently stored = at the ATSF station in Winslow AZ. approx 2 blocks east of the famous = "corner" Bennett ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ronald Di Orio=20 To: John Sheets ; PRR Talk=20 Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR class POS211 Ods There is information on kitbashing a POS211 from AHM cars at = http://varnish.pennsyrr.com/PRROBS.html. Others have already sent you = the names. Ron=20 John Sheets wrote:=20 PRR Class POS 211 2 Drawing room/1 Comparment/1 DBR Observations Pullman Built were numbered car 8421-8427 Did they also have names? TIA John = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------=_NextPart_000_0728_01C2C9E4.8DA4CEF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One of the cars has been made AMTRAK = compatible and=20 is currently stored at the ATSF station in Winslow AZ. approx 2 blocks = east of=20 the famous "corner"
 
Bennett
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ronald = Di Orio=20
Sent: Saturday, February 01, = 2003 9:18=20 AM
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR class = POS211=20 Ods

There is information on kitbashing a POS211 from AHM cars at http://varnish.pennsyrr.= com/PRROBS.html. Others=20 have already sent you the names.   Ron=20

 John Sheets <john@mpa-inc.com> = wrote:=20 PRR=20 Class POS 211 2 Drawing room/1 Comparment/1 DBR = Observations

Pullman=20 Built were numbered car 8421-8427

Did they also have=20 = names?

TIA
John


------------------------------------= -----------------------------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit = http://lists.dsop.com.


Do you Yahoo!?
Yaho= o! Mail=20 Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign= up=20 now ------=_NextPart_000_0728_01C2C9E4.8DA4CEF0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:10:21 -0600 From: gpierson@trnty.edu Subject: [PRR] MP-54 coaches Hello, all, Class MP-54 coaches, combines, and other variations were used all over the PRR system, but especially in suburban services such as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. As far as I can tell, the class designation (at least in 1920) was MP-54, even for non-electrified cars. There were around 600 class -54 cars in 1920, the majority of which were non-electrified. Outside of suburban service, these cars seemed most likely to be assigned to the lower density branch lines. George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:58:03 EST Subject: [PRR] Battery Car Trucks --part1_112.1e2b692e.2b6d8edb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First, thanks to all for the informative responses to the battery car brake details and assignment questions. One last question on the battery car. Noticed in the scanned photo that the truck design used on this car has both coil and leaf springs. Is this a Pennsy design and if so what was the PRR designator? Is this truck or leaf springs available in HO scale? Walthers had made caboose trucks leaf springs about a decade ago but they are long gone. Oops, that's three questions. Many thanks, Evan Leisey --part1_112.1e2b692e.2b6d8edb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   First, thanks to all for the informative responses to the battery car brake details and assignment questions.

  One last question on the battery car.  Noticed in the scanned photo that the truck design used on this car has both coil and leaf springs. Is this a Pennsy design and if so what was the PRR designator?  Is this truck or leaf springs available in HO scale?  Walthers had made caboose trucks leaf springs about a decade ago but they are long gone.

  Oops, that's three questions.

  Many thanks,

  Evan Leisey


   --part1_112.1e2b692e.2b6d8edb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 15:42:42 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Feb 1,1968...35 years ago today Marty, what a load off my mind. The New York Central was still making a profit when I left there in 1966...and then they went downgrade, too...I have always had these guilt feelings. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------ Marty wrote: ....... I have to take some of the responsibility for this..... ...So, I found another job and left the PRR effective October 14, 1966. And, about 15 months later, the PRR ceased to exist.... Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Battery Car Trucks Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:48:14 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C2CA11.B66F56C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Evan, Don't know about HO, but Micro-Trains makes this truck in N scale. They = call it a "coil-elliptic" truck. Perhapds Kadee makes the same thing in = HO. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 3:58 PM Subject: [PRR] Battery Car Trucks First, thanks to all for the informative responses to the battery = car brake details and assignment questions.=20 One last question on the battery car. Noticed in the scanned photo = that the truck design used on this car has both coil and leaf springs. = Is this a Pennsy design and if so what was the PRR designator? Is this = truck or leaf springs available in HO scale? Walthers had made caboose = trucks leaf springs about a decade ago but they are long gone. Oops, that's three questions. Many thanks, Evan Leisey =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C2CA11.B66F56C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Evan,
 
Don't know about HO, but Micro-Trains makes this = truck in N=20 scale. They call it a "coil-elliptic" truck. Perhapds Kadee makes the = same thing=20 in HO.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20
Sent: Saturday, February 01, = 2003 3:58=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Battery Car = Trucks

  First, thanks to all for the informative = responses=20 to the battery car brake details and assignment questions. =

  One=20 last question on the battery car.  Noticed in the scanned photo = that the=20 truck design used on this car has both coil and leaf springs. Is this = a Pennsy=20 design and if so what was the PRR designator?  Is this truck or = leaf=20 springs available in HO scale?  Walthers had made caboose trucks = leaf=20 springs about a decade ago but they are long gone.

  Oops, = that's=20 three questions.

  Many thanks,

  Evan=20 Leisey


   = ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C2CA11.B66F56C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:52:39 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] P-54 Coaches, X42 express boxes In a message dated 2/1/03 11:52:50 AM Central Standard Time, prr2249@yahoo.com writes: << For that matter, were the coaches used as non electrified coaches anywhere other than in the Philadelphia-New York metro area? >> Chicago. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:02:32 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Battery Car Trucks In a message dated 2/1/03 3:06:17 PM Central Standard Time, RDG2124@aol.com writes: << Is this a Pennsy design and if so what was the PRR designator? Is this truck or leaf springs available in HO scale? >> Pennsy design. I have a vague recollection Sunshine Models made this truck in a metal casting kit. Can anyone else confirm? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:14:36 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Cabins in NK4, CK, SK1b In a message dated 1/31/03 7:58:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Paint Schemes > From: > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:50:36 EST > > > --part1_1a3.10108df1.2b6c73dc_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Jerry: > > The Pennsylvania Railroad Compendium on begining on page 106 has the cabin > car arrangement of letters drawings based upon those reproduced drawings: > > Shadow Keystone > ND, NDA, N6, N6B drawing date 1-5-56 > N5, N5A, N5B, N5C, N5D, N5E, N5F drawing stged 12-8-55 > N8 drawing 12-15-55 > > All the shadow keystone revised drawings are post 1954 freight car SK > > Plain Keystone are all dated 12-61 > > Rich Orr > True -- To be more specific, those post-1954 SK lettering arrangement schemes conform to the stencils of phase SK1b. Notice that the issue dates of the drawings reinforce the idea that there were NO SK1a cabin cars (or flats, or gons, or stock cars, etc.). Going back into the past, most of us are familiar with the 1948 CK variant that was standard on N8 cabins (and only on N8) -- that one used a Circle Keystone. There's enough evidence that around 1931 the PRR painted a few cabins in an experimental CK scheme using the circle keystone -- or else they painted the same car in each scheme sequentially. However, this/these schemes were withdrawn, and so PRR cabin cars continued to be lettered in 1926's NK4 scheme (no keystone) until the SK1b came along. There's more on this in my Summer 2002 Keystone article, and I hope to illustrate a cabin article on this someday. Jerry, as applied to your 1954 layout, the good/bad news is that you'll have no Shadow Keystone cabins at all. Further, the only cabins with CK showing will be the N8's. And your freight car fleet will be a sea of CK, with almost no SK1a or SK1b showing. I know you picked 1954 for good reason. But for freight cars and cabins, a 1955 or 1956 cutoff would add much more variety (both paint schemes and new freight cars). This is the kind of consideration that drives us era-modelers nuts... Best wishes, Rick Tipton Who's now waffling between summer 1966 and summer 1968 for the new Buckeye Division layout. You wouldn't believe how much difference 2 years made in the equipment used in southwestern Ohio. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:14:36 EST Subject: [PRR] Cabins in NK4, CK, SK1b --part1_16f.1a0d374c.2b6dbcec_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/31/03 7:58:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Paint Schemes > From: > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:50:36 EST > > > --part1_1a3.10108df1.2b6c73dc_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Jerry: > > The Pennsylvania Railroad Compendium on begining on page 106 has the cabin > car arrangement of letters drawings based upon those reproduced drawings: > > Shadow Keystone > ND, NDA, N6, N6B drawing date 1-5-56 > N5, N5A, N5B, N5C, N5D, N5E, N5F drawing stged 12-8-55 > N8 drawing 12-15-55 > > All the shadow keystone revised drawings are post 1954 freight car SK > > Plain Keystone are all dated 12-61 > > Rich Orr > True -- To be more specific, those post-1954 SK lettering arrangement schemes conform to the stencils of phase SK1b. Notice that the issue dates of the drawings reinforce the idea that there were NO SK1a cabin cars (or flats, or gons, or stock cars, etc.). Going back into the past, most of us are familiar with the 1948 CK variant that was standard on N8 cabins (and only on N8) -- that one used a Circle Keystone. There's enough evidence that around 1931 the PRR painted a few cabins in an experimental CK scheme using the circle keystone -- or else they painted the same car in each scheme sequentially. However, this/these schemes were withdrawn, and so PRR cabin cars continued to be lettered in 1926's NK4 scheme (no keystone) until the SK1b came along. There's more on this in my Summer 2002 Keystone article, and I hope to illustrate a cabin article on this someday. Jerry, as applied to your 1954 layout, the good/bad news is that you'll have no Shadow Keystone cabins at all. Further, the only cabins with CK showing will be the N8's. And your freight car fleet will be a sea of CK, with almost no SK1a or SK1b showing. I know you picked 1954 for good reason. But for freight cars and cabins, a 1955 or 1956 cutoff would add much more variety (both paint schemes and new freight cars). This is the kind of consideration that drives us era-modelers nuts... Best wishes, Rick Tipton Who's now waffling between summer 1966 and summer 1968 for the new Buckeye Division layout. You wouldn't believe how much difference 2 years made in the equipment used in southwestern Ohio. --part1_16f.1a0d374c.2b6dbcec_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/31/03 7:58:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Paint Schemes
From: <SUVCWORR@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:50:36 EST


--part1_1a3.10108df1.2b6c73dc_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jerry:

The Pennsylvania Railroad Compendium on begining on page 106 has the cabin
car  arrangement of letters drawings based upon those reproduced drawings:

Shadow Keystone
ND, NDA, N6, N6B         drawing date 1-5-56
N5, N5A, N5B, N5C, N5D, N5E, N5F   drawing stged 12-8-55
N8   drawing 12-15-55

All the shadow keystone revised drawings are post 1954 freight car SK

Plain Keystone are all dated 12-61

Rich Orr



True --

To be more specific, those post-1954 SK lettering arrangement schemes conform to the stencils of phase SK1b.  Notice that the issue dates of the drawings reinforce the idea that there were NO SK1a cabin cars (or flats, or gons, or stock cars, etc.).

Going back into the past, most of us are familiar with the 1948 CK variant that was standard on N8 cabins (and only on N8) -- that one used a Circle Keystone.  There's enough evidence that around 1931 the PRR painted a few cabins in an experimental CK scheme using the circle keystone -- or else they painted the same car in each scheme sequentially.  However, this/these schemes were withdrawn, and so PRR cabin cars continued to be lettered in 1926's NK4 scheme (no keystone) until the SK1b came along.

There's more on this in my Summer 2002 Keystone article, and I hope to illustrate a cabin article on this someday.

Jerry, as applied to your 1954 layout, the good/bad news is that you'll have no Shadow Keystone cabins at all.   Further, the only cabins with CK showing will be the N8's.  And your freight car fleet will be a sea of CK, with almost no SK1a or SK1b showing.

I know you picked 1954 for good reason.  But for freight cars and cabins, a 1955 or 1956 cutoff would add much more variety (both paint schemes and new freight cars).  This is the kind of consideration that drives us era-modelers nuts...

Best wishes,

Rick Tipton
Who's now waffling between summer 1966 and summer 1968 for the new Buckeye Division layout.  You wouldn't believe how much difference 2 years made in the equipment used in southwestern Ohio.
 --part1_16f.1a0d374c.2b6dbcec_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Randy" Subject: [PRR] New Releases Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:18:33 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_046D_01C2CA26.B60A6DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At the Big E show in Springfield, MA we have debuted our latest = releases. A PRR Standard Tool House and a Standard Scale House. They = are available in N, HO, S, O, & G Scale. Check our website for more = information. Dayna Warner CEO Trainstuff LLC www.trainstuffllc.com ------=_NextPart_000_046D_01C2CA26.B60A6DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

At the Big E show in Springfield, = MA we=20 have debuted our latest releases.  A PRR Standard Tool House and a = Standard=20 Scale House.  They are available in N, HO, S, O, & G = Scale.  Check=20 our website for more information.
 
 
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff = LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com ------=_NextPart_000_046D_01C2CA26.B60A6DE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RobertR453@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 21:49:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona Museum --part1_176.15acd576.2b6de12b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like the position of the Musuem in town but if the track was available the Sam Rea shops sure would make a nice musuem. If the track was available too they could run excursion too? Has any researched/mentioned this? --part1_176.15acd576.2b6de12b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I like the position of the Musuem in town but if the track was available the Sam Rea shops sure would make a nice musuem.  If the track was available too they could run excursion too?  Has any researched/mentioned this? --part1_176.15acd576.2b6de12b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:51:50 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Battery Car Trucks On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/1/03 3:06:17 PM Central Standard Time, RDG2124@aol.com > writes: > > << Is this a > Pennsy design and if so what was the PRR designator? Is this truck or leaf > springs available in HO scale? >> > > Pennsy design. I have a vague recollection Sunshine Models made this truck > in a metal casting kit. Can anyone else confirm? Bowser makes these trucks in HO. Part #74190 Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 21:02:09 -0800 From: smartcommco@earthlink.net Subject: [PRR] A point of clarification. It has been brought to my attention off-line that I may have caused undo and unfair embarrassment to the interim Board of the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum. Hopefully this will set the record straight. I was asked by my client to determine the "creative control" issue BEFORE revealing their underwriting offer. Since the issue of " creative control" was not approved by the Museum, the funding offer was not presented. At no time did the Museum turn down a corporate funding offer over the issue of "creative control". If my comments caused anyone on this list to come to that conclusion, I am deeply regretful. Harry Webber ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 23:15:43 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] N-5b CABOOSE NUMBERS - HELP!! Gentlemen, I have two requests involving the N-5b cabooses: (1) KENNY KING bought a N-5? from CONRAIL and has it on a piece of track in his yard in LATROBE, PA. It has a CR number on it . . . CR 46152. He is building a 1.6 scale model of this caboose and would like to number his model the PRR number of the CR 46152. Can anyone, please cross-reference this CR number and give me the PRR number for this caboose and the class? I have to get the lettering before FEBRUARY 7th, so I need this information ASAP! If you have any history connected with this caboose, he would like to have it too! (2) I am building a 1.6 scale model of a N-5b caboose. I plan to letter it with the full PENNSYLVANIA on the side with the "Shadow" keystone. I would like to number it for a caboose that was assigned between ENOLA and ALTOONA or CONWAY. Can you come up with a good PRR number? Please be sure it is a N-5b! THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] P-54 Coaches, X42 express boxes Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:21:24 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C2CA51.05087FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ron Di Orio asked: Express Box X42 (Car nos. 2540-2549). Anyone know where I can find = plans or at least major dimensions? Have a couple of photographs, = that's not the problem. See the October 1999 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman for drawings by = Chuck Yungkurth. By the way, you can search for magazine articles at = http://index.mrmag.com by keyword or author. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C2CA51.05087FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ron Di Orio asked:
Express Box X42 (Car nos. 2540-2549).  Anyone know where I can = find=20 plans or at least major dimensions?  Have a couple of photographs, = that's=20 not the problem.
 
See the October 1999 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman for drawings = by=20 Chuck Yungkurth.
 
By the way, you can search for magazine articles at http://index.mrmag.com by keyword or = author.
 
 
Ben Hom
------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C2CA51.05087FC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:47:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5b CABOOSE NUMBERS - HELP!! Answers to Part 2: Here are some numbers of N5b cabin cars assigned between Enola,Altoona and Conway: 477683: Alto-Enola Crew 222/Pitts. Div 477640: Enola- Alto Crew 132/Pitts Div. (TrainPhone Eqiup.) 477717: Conway-Altoona Crew/Pitts Div. 477718: Conway-Altoona Pool/Pitts Div. (cabin car equip. for Pass. Service) info from "System Cabin Car Assignments" May 1957. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ThreeButchers@cs.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 06:43:29 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: Battery Car coil-eliptic trucks In a message dated 2/2/03 6:12:27 AM !!!First Boot!!!, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Noticed in the scanned photo that the truck design used on this car has both coil and leaf springs. Is this a Pennsy design and if so what was the PRR designator? >> Typically, these trucks were 2D-F18 or 2D-F19. The official PRR tracings indicate different contours to the two sideframes Brian Butcher PRRT&HS #5540 PRR 30s-50s 1/160th scale http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR-n_scale/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 04:54:48 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] I1s/I1sa flanged drivers Hello list, With all of the talk about I1s/I1sa flanged drivers, I leafed through my Keystone reprints. Volume 7, Number 1 (March 1974) says on page 9 that I1s/I1sa engines began receiving flanged second and fourth driver sets starting in 1938. Center driver remained unflanged (blind). With a large fleet of engines (over 4000 during most of the 1940s), it probably took quite some time to convert the entire fleet of I1s/I1sa engines. The article lists the drivers (1st through 5th axles) as Flanged 7.5" plain 8.5" plain 7.5" plain flanged After 1938, listing shows all drivers flanged, except the center driver, which was 7" plain. One other tidbit from the same issue. Until 1934, all Pacifics had unflanged center drivers. After 1934, they began to receive flanged center drivers. Doug __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:41:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] P-54 Coaches, X42 express boxes 1. P-54 coaches. Were these used in suburban service anywhere in the Pittsburgh area, either before or after the electrification of the Main Line to Paoli? For that matter, were the coaches used as non electrified coaches anywhere other than in the Philadelphia-New York metro area? 2. Express Box X42 (Car nos. 2540-2549). Anyone know where I can find plans or at least major dimensions? Have a a couple of photographs, that's not the problem. Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:21:24 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] P-54 Coaches, X42 express boxes Ron Di Orio asked: Express Box X42 (Car nos. 2540-2549). Anyone know where I can find plans or at least major dimensions? Have a couple of photographs, that's not the problem. See the October 1999 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman for drawings by Chuck Yungkurth. By the way, you can search for magazine articles at http://index.mrmag.com by keyword or author. Ben Hom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:46:17 EST Subject: [PRR] What Pass. Train --part1_65.8c03784.2b6e7b29_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List, In the 60's, 64 to 68, I would catch a w/b passenger train at Lancaster, Pa. along about 11 - 11:30 at night and this train would be passed Pittsburg and well into Ohio by dawns first light. What train, number and name, would this have been? Evan Leisey --part1_65.8c03784.2b6e7b29_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List,

   In the 60's, 64 to 68,  I would catch a w/b passenger train at Lancaster, Pa. along about 11 - 11:30 at night and this train would be passed Pittsburg and well into Ohio by dawns first light.   What train, number and name, would this have been?

Evan Leisey --part1_65.8c03784.2b6e7b29_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:52:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR G39 Jennies from Stewart Hobbies (HO) List....... I just want to pass on some info I just got. PRR G39 ore jennies will be released with both style trucks real soon. Don't know all the details but I understand that the jennies will be released in packs of four, maybe more. Maybe someone else can chime in with more info. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] Observation Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:26:42 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C2CA9D.3231DCC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just turned my calendar for the Pennsylvania RR and there is Three = GG-1's with the air intake screens low on the body of the Locomotive. Is my 72 year old memory failing me wasn't this problem corrected after = the Storm we had in the 1950's late where the blowing snow clogged these = intakes? I thought they were moved to the top cowling of the Locomotive near the = Pantagraphs. Could the Calendar Co. made a mistake in the date under the = picture caption?? Lee Burbage ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C2CA9D.3231DCC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just turned my calendar for the Pennsylvania RR and there is = Three GG-1's=20 with the air intake screens low on the body of the Locomotive.
 
Is my 72 year old memory failing me  wasn't this problem = corrected=20 after the Storm we had in the 1950's late where the blowing snow clogged = these=20 intakes?
 
I thought they were moved to the top cowling of the Locomotive near = the=20 Pantagraphs. Could the Calendar Co. made a mistake in the date under the = picture=20 caption??
 
Lee Burbage
------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C2CA9D.3231DCC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 09:33:25 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Looking for Paul Martineau Paul, if you are on this list, would you drop me a line, please? Anyone else, if you hve a current email address for Paul, please let me know. Thanks, Steve Bartlett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:55:51 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] What Pass. Train --part1_163.1b1af000.2b6e8b77_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/2/2003 8:54:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, RDG2124@aol.com writes: > In the 60's, 64 to 68, I would catch a w/b passenger train at Lancaster, > Pa. along about 11 - 11:30 at night and this train would be passed > Pittsburg and well into Ohio by dawns first light. What train, number and > name, would this have been? > My 1968 Official Guide (after the merger) shows Train 615 stopping at Lancaster at 11:01 pm en route to an 11:34 pm arrival in Harrisburg. However no connecting service into Ohio is shown. For trains running through into Ohio, Train 3, the "Penn Texas", stopped at Lancaster at 9:38 pm but was in Indiana by 5 am, en route to St. Louis. Train 49, the "Broadway Limited", stopped at Lancaster at 7:50 pm and exited Ohio just after 6 am en route to Chicago. Lee Rainey --part1_163.1b1af000.2b6e8b77_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 2/2/2003 8:54:05 AM Eastern Standar= d Time, RDG2124@aol.com writes:


In the 60's, 64 to 68,  I=20= would catch a w/b passenger train at Lancaster, Pa. along about 11 - 11:30 a= t night and this train would be passed Pittsburg and well into Ohio by dawns= first light.   What train, number and name, would this have been?=


My 1968 Official Guide (after the merger) shows Train 615 stopping at Lancas= ter at 11:01 pm en route to an 11:34 pm arrival in Harrisburg. However no co= nnecting service into Ohio is shown.

For trains running through into Ohio, Train 3, the "Penn Texas", stopped at=20= Lancaster at 9:38 pm but was in Indiana by 5 am, en route to St. Louis. = ; Train 49, the "Broadway Limited", stopped at Lancaster at 7:50 pm and exit= ed Ohio just after 6 am en route to Chicago.

Lee Rainey --part1_163.1b1af000.2b6e8b77_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:16:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] What Pass. Train Evan, In 1964, train #3, the Penn Texas, made a westbound stop at 11:38 PM. The closest Chicago trains were the General at 7:45 pm and the Pennsylvania Ltd at 2:05AM. Looks like #3. Would that train's route take you to where you were going? Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 12:30:27 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] Battery Car Trucks --------------CFA011EE8B313542029DB350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RDG2124@aol.com wrote: > First, thanks to all for the informative responses to the battery > car brake details and assignment questions. > > One last question on the battery car. Noticed in the scanned photo > that the truck design used on this car has both coil and leaf springs. > Is this a Pennsy design and if so what was the PRR designator? Is > this truck or leaf springs available in HO scale? Walthers had made > caboose trucks leaf springs about a decade ago but they are long gone. > > Oops, that's three questions. > > Many thanks, > > Evan Leisey > Evan- These are some of the coil-elliptical trucks PRR used. There are others. If you want the whole list, let me know off line. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO 2D-F3 ASF Andrews- Cast/USRA 5'6"w/ coil-elliptic spg-U sect-Dble.truss-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-FB-50 ton - Accurail #103 2D-F3 ASF Andrews- Cast/USRA 5'6"w/ coil-elliptic spg-U sect-Dble.truss-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-FB-50 ton- Bowser #74190 2D-F4a ARA Type W Bett-Cast 5'6"-coil/ellip spg-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-Bolted jrnls-FB-33"pl wh.-Scale width- #Accurail 100 2D-F12 AAR PRR Type 5'6"w/ single coil/elliptical springs-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-FB-50 ton-1930's Sunshine Models TM6 2D-F12 AAR PRR Type 5'6"w/ coil/elliptic springs-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-FB-50 ton Bowser 74190 2D-F12 AAR PRR Type 5'6"w/ coil/elliptic springs-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-FB-50 ton Rail Classics ?? 2D-F12a AAR Cast Steel 5'6"w/ coil/elliptic spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-33" Ribbed wh. LifeLike 21251 2D-F12a AAR Cast Steel 5'6"w/ coil/elliptic spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-33" Flat wh. LifeLike 21253 2D-F12a AAR Cast Steel 5'6"w/ coil/elliptic spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton Tichy 3049 2D-F12a AAR Cast Steel 5'6"w/ coil/ellip spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-Sprung-FB-50 Ton-33" Plas wh. Walthers 1001 2D-F12a AAR Cast Steel 5'6"coil/ellip spr-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-Unsprung-33" Metal wh. Walthers 1008 2D-F12a AAR Cast Steel 5'6"coil/ellip spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-Unsprung-33" Plas wh. Walthers 1012 2D-F12a AAR Cast Steel 5'6"coil/ellip spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-Unsprung-33" Brass wh. Intermountain 40060 2D-F12a AAR Cast Steel 5'6"w/ coil/ellip spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-33" Plas wh. Red Caboose 5004 --------------CFA011EE8B313542029DB350 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

RDG2124@aol.com wrote:

  First, thanks to all for the informative responses to the battery car brake details and assignment questions.

  One last question on the battery car.  Noticed in the scanned photo that the truck design used on this car has both coil and leaf springs. Is this a Pennsy design and if so what was the PRR designator?  Is this truck or leaf springs available in HO scale?  Walthers had made caboose trucks leaf springs about a decade ago but they are long gone.

  Oops, that's three questions.

  Many thanks,

  Evan Leisey
 

Evan-

These are some of the coil-elliptical trucks PRR used. There are others. If you want the whole list,
let me know off line.

Regards,

Eddie
Dr. Edmond L. Freed
PRRT&HS # 156
Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO

2D-F3  ASF Andrews-   Cast/USRA 5'6"w/ coil-elliptic spg-U sect-Dble.truss-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-FB-50 ton -    Accurail #103

2D-F3  ASF Andrews-   Cast/USRA 5'6"w/ coil-elliptic spg-U sect-Dble.truss-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-FB-50 ton-   Bowser #74190

2D-F4a   ARA Type W Bett-Cast 5'6"-coil/ellip spg-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-Bolted jrnls-FB-33"pl wh.-Scale width- #Accurail 100

2D-F12     AAR PRR Type 5'6"w/ single coil/elliptical springs-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-FB-50 ton-1930's   Sunshine Models TM6

2D-F12     AAR PRR Type 5'6"w/ coil/elliptic springs-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-FB-50 ton Bowser 74190

2D-F12     AAR PRR Type 5'6"w/ coil/elliptic springs-sngl brake-spread/spr plank-FB-50 ton   Rail Classics ??

2D-F12a   AAR Cast Steel 5'6"w/ coil/elliptic spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-33" Ribbed wh. LifeLike 21251

2D-F12a   AAR Cast Steel 5'6"w/ coil/elliptic spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-33" Flat wh. LifeLike 21253 

2D-F12a   AAR Cast Steel 5'6"w/ coil/elliptic spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton Tichy 3049

2D-F12a   AAR Cast Steel 5'6"w/ coil/ellip spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-Sprung-FB-50 Ton-33" Plas wh. Walthers 1001

2D-F12a   AAR Cast Steel 5'6"coil/ellip spr-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-Unsprung-33" Metal wh. Walthers 1008

2D-F12a   AAR Cast Steel 5'6"coil/ellip spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-Unsprung-33" Plas wh. Walthers 1012

2D-F12a   AAR Cast Steel 5'6"coil/ellip spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-Unsprung-33" Brass wh. Intermountain 40060

2D-F12a   AAR Cast Steel 5'6"w/ coil/ellip spr.-Self aligned-Plankless-FB-50 Ton-33" Plas wh. Red Caboose 5004
  --------------CFA011EE8B313542029DB350-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FredAbend@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:46:48 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Observation Lee and the List, While the railroad modified many of the GG1s, most probably did not get it. I base this on my observations in the PC/Conrail days where Dick Pfeiffer and I each tabulated which had the modifications on the GG1s still running. Fred Abendschein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:50:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] B6sb Update List, Work on the B6sb progressed well this week with the Tender being my main focus. The final look of the Tender captured what I was after. I posted more photos on the website if you care to check: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/B6sb.html .......Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 13:58:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/31/03 From: "Stephen H. Prosser" Dear Listers, Just a bit of trivia for you Railfesters. As you know, the PRR Testing plant along 17th St. was torn down some time ago. My Uncle Don Croyle worked in the plant and rescued a number of important things such as boxes of glass negatives of very old steam builders shots. The demolition crew, knowing that a parking lot would be close by (the Station Mall), they simply dumped a lot of PRR stuff into the hole along with fill and covered it with blacktop. Some day, when the Station Mall has lost its charm ;) RR archaeologists will find many interesting artifacts. So, next time you're tailgating at RF, just imagine what you're standing on top of!!! Steve -- Steve Prosser sprosser@attbi.com -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 14:28:23 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Dream Excursion From: "Stephen H. Prosser" Howse about this for a dream excursion for 1361? >From the RR museum down the old Hollidaysburg Branch to the Wye switches and then (here comes the dream part) around Duncansville to Foot of Ten (so called because it was the foot of the tenth plane of the Portage RR) up along old Rt. 22 to the Muleshoe Curve up to the mountain crest with a turn around before you hit Rt. 22 near Tunnel Hill . . . OK I said it was a dream, but what a dream. I walk the Muleshoe every Spring to watch birds and the roadbed is still beautifully crested and you can kick up a spike and other metal parts without much trouble. This is now State Game lands and the area, one can imagine, is just as beautiful as when Dickens took the trip on the Portage RR in the mid-1800s. Still dreaming! -- Steve Prosser sprosser@attbi.com -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:02:19 EST Subject: [PRR] Ore traffic questions The announcement of the G39 from Stewart raises a few questions. I have also seen leased DM&IR jennies on the Pennsy. Were they ever run mixed with G38s and G39s? What year were they leased? Second, would there be a reasonable expectation in 1961 that a shark lashup could pull the Pennsy cars? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR G39 Jennies from Stewart Hobbies (HO) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:51:08 -0500 Stewart had samples at the Springfield train show yesterday... They were complete except for the ladders and some other detail parts. They looked real nice, and are heavy! The body of the car is cast metal. The ladders are separate but the grabs are cast on. They're doing G39's (Crown Trucks) and G39b's (bettendorf trucks) Three four packs of each type in PRR along with a single decorated car of each type for 26 decorated cars total! Supposedly they'll be out in March... The flyer just has TBA for the price.... Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of zootowerprr@webtv.net Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 8:52 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR G39 Jennies from Stewart Hobbies (HO) List....... I just want to pass on some info I just got. PRR G39 ore jennies will be released with both style trucks real soon. Don't know all the details but I understand that the jennies will be released in packs of four, maybe more. Maybe someone else can chime in with more info. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:59:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Ore traffic questions Bob, I have seen photos of Sharks pulling jennies around the Cleveland area (Whiskey Island) in early 1960s. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 18:11:33 EST Subject: [PRR] Terminating Cincinnati passenger trains --part1_11.8e0d958.2b6effa5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/2/03 10:57:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:27:34 EST > From: RGAST2@aol.com > Subject: Cincinnati Question > > Since CUT opened, didn't all Pennsy passenger trains into Cincinnati use > the > Norwood connection, thence the B&O down through Ivorydale Junction to CUT? True - PRR trains from Columbus and from Richmond (and N&W trains from Portsmouth) used OAKLEY to reach the Norwood connection, entering the B&O at the east end of EAST NORWOOD interlocking. > > A friend and I got to wondering this week if PRR didn't have a way to get > from Undercliff into the south end of CUT. I said I didn't think they had > a > direct way, but still could saw through if they ever had to. Does anyone > know for sure? Did PRR passenger trains ever have to run via Undercliff, > either regularly or as a detour? > > Jeff > Jeff, Chad, et al, Before CUT opened, there's evidence that drafts of sleepers (and maybe headend equipment) were shuttled among the 5 or 7 or whatever predecessor passenger stations. Some MAY have been via the PRR's Cincinnati Street Connecting Railway you refer to, although this is a lot of street running. If you'd ever watched PRR freight transfers or DT&I DC-7/DC-6 crawling in Front Street across the waterfront at Cincinnati (west of Undercliff, OASIS, and the site of former PRR Pearl Street Station), dodging autos and trucks and lots of industry switches, you would understand why CSCRy would be a very undesirable route for passenger trains. There were many interconnectons along Cincinnati's west waterfront to B&O, Southern, Big Four, and C&O. However, like you I'm not aware of any that would lead a movement off the CSCRy to CUT without any backing. Backing from Storrs Yard on the B&O onto the CUT southwest connector, or backing up off the NYC ditch track at Wood Street onto the C&O bridge to reach the southeast connector would make this evolution even more unattractive. In fact, the Wood Street maneuver would be something like switchbacking the Cincinnati Limited across Rollins Pass (the "Giant's Ladder" was of course replaced by Moffatt Tunnel). I'm not saying they NEVER did this (although I've never heard of it before, and no author I know gives this theory a whirl). I'm just saying it would be a lot worse than, say, detouring via Dayton down the New York Central to Ivorydale Junction, or detouring via B&O's Toledo Division/CH&D from Hamilton. Those are emergency diversions that make good operating sense. BTW -- forgive all the unexplained locations and jargon folks. I'm currently trying to write an article on the PRR in Cincinnati for the Keystone. Hopefully, some of this will make more sense when developed in the article. If you can't wait, consult Carl Condit's The Railroad and the City for more detail than you ever dreamed of. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_11.8e0d958.2b6effa5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/2/03 10:57:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 2
   Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:27:34 EST
   From: RGAST2@aol.com
Subject: Cincinnati Question

Since CUT opened, didn't all Pennsy passenger trains into Cincinnati use the
Norwood connection, thence the B&O down through Ivorydale Junction to CUT?


True - PRR trains from Columbus and from Richmond (and N&W trains from Portsmouth) used OAKLEY to reach the Norwood connection, entering the B&O at the east end of EAST NORWOOD interlocking.


A friend and I got to wondering this week if PRR didn't have a way to get
from  Undercliff into the south end of CUT.  I said I didn't think they had a
direct way, but still could saw through if they ever had to.  Does anyone
know for sure?  Did PRR passenger trains ever have to run via Undercliff,
either regularly or as a detour?

Jeff  


Jeff, Chad, et al,

Before CUT opened, there's evidence that drafts of sleepers (and maybe headend equipment) were shuttled among the 5 or 7 or whatever predecessor passenger stations.  Some MAY have been via the PRR's Cincinnati Street Connecting Railway you refer to, although this is a lot of street running.

If you'd ever watched PRR freight transfers or DT&I DC-7/DC-6 crawling in Front Street across the waterfront at Cincinnati (west of Undercliff, OASIS, and the site of former PRR Pearl Street Station), dodging autos and trucks and lots of industry switches, you would understand why CSCRy would be a very undesirable route for passenger trains.  

There were many interconnectons along Cincinnati's west waterfront to B&O, Southern, Big Four, and C&O.  However, like you I'm not aware of any that would lead a movement off the CSCRy to CUT without any backing.  Backing from Storrs Yard on the B&O onto the CUT southwest connector, or backing up off the NYC ditch track at Wood Street onto the C&O bridge to reach the southeast connector would make this evolution even more unattractive.  In fact, the Wood Street maneuver would be something like switchbacking the Cincinnati Limited across Rollins Pass (the "Giant's Ladder" was of course replaced by Moffatt Tunnel).

I'm not saying they NEVER did this (although I've never heard of it before, and no author I know gives this theory a whirl).  I'm just saying it would be a lot worse than, say, detouring via Dayton down the New York Central to Ivorydale Junction, or detouring via B&O's Toledo Division/CH&D from Hamilton.  Those are emergency diversions that make good operating sense.

BTW -- forgive all the unexplained locations and jargon folks.  I'm currently trying to write an article on the PRR in Cincinnati for the Keystone.  Hopefully, some of this will make more sense when developed in the article.

If you can't wait, consult Carl Condit's The Railroad and the City for more detail than you ever dreamed of.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_11.8e0d958.2b6effa5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 19:07:38 -0600 From: Chuck Bowman Subject: [PRR] Coil-Leaf Trucks Re Evan Leisey's question concerning coil-leaf trucks. This is style 2D-F12. Sunshine did in fact make this truck. Its fresh in my mind because I just finished an X-26C boxcar by Sunshine. The kit included these trucks. I haven't a clue whether they are still available -- I've had the kit on the shelf for about five years. Now that its finished, its a great looking boxcar!! Sunshine's directions report that the V-9306 sideframe was made by Pennsy, and used on the 2D-F8, F12, and F19 trucks. The idea of the coil-leaf design was to reduce harmonic oscillation. However, after WWII, the leaf springs slowly gave way to twin coil springs. This made the 2D-F12 look identical to the 2D-F8 (which is available from Kadee). chuck Charles H. Bowman Phone 979-690-7095 Lah Lah Farm Fax 979-690-8069 13350 Hopes Creek Road Cell 979-587-1386 College Station TX 77845-9250 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:02:45 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Battery Car Trucks --part1_1c4.46c4fac.2b6f27c5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All: Bowser makes these trucks part number 74190 $2.75 a pair. If I recall correctly Tichy also makes a version. I think the Tichy nad Bowser differ in the orientation of the coil and leaf springs. Rich Orr --part1_1c4.46c4fac.2b6f27c5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All:

Bowser makes these trucks part number 74190  $2.75 a pair.  If I recall correctly Tichy also makes a version.  I think the Tichy nad Bowser differ in the orientation of the coil and leaf springs.

Rich Orr --part1_1c4.46c4fac.2b6f27c5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5b CABOOSE NUMBERS - HELP!! Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:22:33 -0500 Richard, You already have an answer to part (2), so here is part (1): The former PRR number and class for CR 46152 are 477117, class N5. An outline of the history of the car follows. The Class N5 cabin car was built in Altoona on 2-1-1917, given number 487118, and assigned to the Northern Grand Division. It was renumbered to 477117 on 5-14-1920 at Venango. It was shopped at Olean on 3-2-1923. On 1-7-1926 it had an air brake pressure gauge installed at Renovo. The equipment boxes were removed on 2-27-1926 at Renovo. Two Sherburne alarm whistles and emergency brake valves were installed on 3-16-1926 at Renovo. On 10-15-1926 the "old style" couplers were replaced by ARA Type D couplers at Renovo. The cast iron wheels on axles 1 and 2 were replaced by one-wear wrought steel wheels at Renovo on 7-10-1931. Those on axles 3 and 4 were replaced on 10-3-1931 at Buffalo. Brake beam safety supports were added on 2-27-1936 at Pitcairn. On 4-10-1943 at Erie Car Shops the 2A-F1 archbar trucks were replaced by 2A-F3 trucks and the wheels were replaced by new one-wear wrought steel wheels. The KD 1012 air brake system was replaced by AB brakes on 4-29-1943 at Erie Car Shops. The Type D couplers were replaced by Type E couplers on 10-25-1943 at Erie. On 4-27-1950 at Altoona Car Shops the vertical staff hand brakes were replaced by Equipco power hand brakes. Collision posts were added. New Type E couplers were applied with Edgewater draft gear. The end hand rails were raised to 48". An air brake release mechanism was installed. The composition flooring was replaced by maple flooring. And, the single flat wick oil lamp was replaced by two round wick oil lamps. In the 5-15-1957 System Cabin Car Assignments list, N5 477117 is assigned to the Northern Region, Warren Ridgeway RW-2. The 5-3-1974 Penn Central Caboose Directory shows that PC 19330 was former PRR 477117. By this time it had 2A-F5 trucks, a 12 volt electrical system, screened cupola windows, screen doors, oil heat and a toilet. It was in yard only service and had last been shopped on 8-23-1971. The 6-6-1981 Conrail Caboose Directory shows that CR 46152 was former PC 19330 and was listed as work equipment. If anyone can add further details to this car's history, I would be pleased to hear about it. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Poole" > Gentlemen, > > I have two requests involving the N-5b cabooses: > > (1) KENNY KING bought a N-5? from CONRAIL and has it on a piece of track in his yard in LATROBE, PA. It has a CR number on it . . . CR 46152. He is building a 1.6 scale model of this caboose and would like to number his model the PRR number of the CR 46152. Can anyone, please cross-reference this CR number and give me the PRR number for this caboose and the class? I have to get the lettering before FEBRUARY 7th, so I need this information ASAP! If you have any history connected with this caboose, he would like to have it too! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] N-5b CABOOSE NUMBERS - HELP!! Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:08:14 -0500 That cabin car is sort of like Caesar's Axe. Its on its third handle and fourth head!!!!! -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Johnson Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:23 PM To: dpoole17@PAnetwork.com; PRR TALK Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5b CABOOSE NUMBERS - HELP!! Richard, You already have an answer to part (2), so here is part (1): The former PRR number and class for CR 46152 are 477117, class N5. An outline of the history of the car follows. The Class N5 cabin car was built in Altoona on 2-1-1917, given number 487118, and assigned to the Northern Grand Division. It was renumbered to 477117 on 5-14-1920 at Venango. It was shopped at Olean on 3-2-1923. On 1-7-1926 it had an air brake pressure gauge installed at Renovo. The equipment boxes were removed on 2-27-1926 at Renovo. Two Sherburne alarm whistles and emergency brake valves were installed on 3-16-1926 at Renovo. On 10-15-1926 the "old style" couplers were replaced by ARA Type D couplers at Renovo. The cast iron wheels on axles 1 and 2 were replaced by one-wear wrought steel wheels at Renovo on 7-10-1931. Those on axles 3 and 4 were replaced on 10-3-1931 at Buffalo. Brake beam safety supports were added on 2-27-1936 at Pitcairn. On 4-10-1943 at Erie Car Shops the 2A-F1 archbar trucks were replaced by 2A-F3 trucks and the wheels were replaced by new one-wear wrought steel wheels. The KD 1012 air brake system was replaced by AB brakes on 4-29-1943 at Erie Car Shops. The Type D couplers were replaced by Type E couplers on 10-25-1943 at Erie. On 4-27-1950 at Altoona Car Shops the vertical staff hand brakes were replaced by Equipco power hand brakes. Collision posts were added. New Type E couplers were applied with Edgewater draft gear. The end hand rails were raised to 48". An air brake release mechanism was installed. The composition flooring was replaced by maple flooring. And, the single flat wick oil lamp was replaced by two round wick oil lamps. In the 5-15-1957 System Cabin Car Assignments list, N5 477117 is assigned to the Northern Region, Warren Ridgeway RW-2. The 5-3-1974 Penn Central Caboose Directory shows that PC 19330 was former PRR 477117. By this time it had 2A-F5 trucks, a 12 volt electrical system, screened cupola windows, screen doors, oil heat and a toilet. It was in yard only service and had last been shopped on 8-23-1971. The 6-6-1981 Conrail Caboose Directory shows that CR 46152 was former PC 19330 and was listed as work equipment. If anyone can add further details to this car's history, I would be pleased to hear about it. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Poole" > Gentlemen, > > I have two requests involving the N-5b cabooses: > > (1) KENNY KING bought a N-5? from CONRAIL and has it on a piece > of track in his yard in LATROBE, PA. It has a CR number on it . . . CR 46152. He is building a 1.6 scale model of this caboose and would like to number his model the PRR number of the CR 46152. Can anyone, please cross-reference this CR number and give me the PRR number for this caboose and the class? I have to get the lettering before FEBRUARY 7th, so I need this information ASAP! If you have any history connected with this caboose, he would like to have it too! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Ore traffic questions Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:13:14 -0500 Bobspf wrote: >>>>Second, would there be a reasonable expectation in 1961 that a shark lashup could pull the Pennsy cars? Bill Replies: I would say they (the changes) were pretty good, since almost the entire fleet was still operable, minus the three (ABA set)that were stored at 12th St. Shop in Altoona awaiting rebuild at Schnectady to Alco prime movers. I think 1961 was the year that the work was done because they scrapped the idea and bought the DL640s in 1962. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bobspf@aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 7:02 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Ore traffic questions The announcement of the G39 from Stewart raises a few questions. I have also seen leased DM&IR jennies on the Pennsy. Were they ever run mixed with G38s and G39s? What year were they leased? Second, would there be a reasonable expectation in 1961 that a shark lashup could pull the Pennsy cars? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 08:03:24 -0600 From: Frederick Ripley Subject: [PRR] PRR ore traffic to Toledo The discussion of PRR ore jennies reminds me of an article about the PRR's ore traffic in "Trains" around 1960. Included was a map of the routes of showed of regular ore traffic. The route furthest west on the system was from Toledo to the east. Does anyone remember these trains? (Toledo-Carrothers-Bucyrus, then east on the Ft. Wayne main line). I am curious if they used ore jennies, or regular hoppers as some PRR ore trains seemed to. Thanks, Fred R. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 10:20:58 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Coil-Leaf Trucks The 2D-F12 is also available from Bowser. They put them under their X31s. They also sell just the sideframes so you could put Reboxx wheels in them. I've done this for many of my X29s. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Chuck Bowman wrote: > Re Evan Leisey's question concerning coil-leaf trucks. This is style > 2D-F12. Sunshine did in fact make this truck. Its fresh in my mind > because I just finished an X-26C boxcar by Sunshine. The kit included > these trucks. I haven't a clue whether they are still available -- I've > had the kit on the shelf for about five years. Now that its finished, its > a great looking boxcar!! > > Sunshine's directions report that the V-9306 sideframe was made by Pennsy, > and used on the 2D-F8, F12, and F19 trucks. The idea of the coil-leaf > design was to reduce harmonic oscillation. However, after WWII, the leaf > springs slowly gave way to twin coil springs. This made the 2D-F12 look > identical to the 2D-F8 (which is available from Kadee). > > chuck > > Charles H. Bowman Phone 979-690-7095 > Lah Lah Farm Fax 979-690-8069 > 13350 Hopes Creek Road Cell 979-587-1386 > College Station TX 77845-9250 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Amherst Show Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:52:49 -0500 Listers, I was
I have one item left for sale on e-Bay, item = #2156403574 (4 PRR Time Tables) . Other = items will be=20 forthcoming in the near future.