From: PRR5499@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 01:37:21 +0000 Seeing is believing.......... > The following is provided as a PSA (Public Service Announcement), regardless > of who your dealer of choice is... > > Broadway Limited Imports sent out a dealer mailing dated 9/26 which > contained the following info: > > * The NYC J1e is due to arrive to them on 10/10. Thereafter it will ship to > dealers. There will be three shipments in total, so dealers may not receive > their entire shipment during the first phase. Subsequent shipments will > arrive in November and December. > > * The N&W Class A is due in March 2003 OR SOONER. > > * The PRR GG1 is due in March 2003. > > * The E7A is due in April 2003. > > * The PRR M1a/M1b is due in June 2003. > > * The USRA Heavy Mikado is due in August 2003. > > * The PRR T1 is due in October 2003. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 12:52:36 +0000 I wouldn't hold my breath on those schedules. I just got my October MR with the review and it looks like there are still teething problems. They tried to write a favorable review but 8.5 volts for a starting speed? Parts not painted on the engine? I think I'll still wait for the "field" review before jumping in on this one. > > Seeing is believing.......... > > The following is provided as a PSA (Public Service Announcement), regardless > > of who your dealer of choice is... > > > > Broadway Limited Imports sent out a dealer mailing dated 9/26 which > > contained the following info: > > > > * The NYC J1e is due to arrive to them on 10/10. Thereafter it will ship to > > dealers. There will be three shipments in total, so dealers may not receive > > their entire shipment during the first phase. Subsequent shipments will > > arrive in November and December. > > > > * The N&W Class A is due in March 2003 OR SOONER. > > > > * The PRR GG1 is due in March 2003. > > > > * The E7A is due in April 2003. > > > > * The PRR M1a/M1b is due in June 2003. > > > > * The USRA Heavy Mikado is due in August 2003. > > > > * The PRR T1 is due in October 2003. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:07:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR T & H Society --part1_aa.12a2f79e.2acaf812_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thanks to all for the information on the Pennsy technical & historical society and its chapters. Evan Leisey --part1_aa.12a2f79e.2acaf812_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thanks to all for the information on the Pennsy technical & historical society and its chapters.  

Evan Leisey --part1_aa.12a2f79e.2acaf812_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:16:18 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI Jerry sez: >Broadway Limited Imports sent out a dealer mailing dated 9/26 which >contained the following info: >* The PRR GG1 is due in March 2003. > >* The PRR M1a/M1b is due in June 2003. YIKES! How did the GG1 jump over the M1? Could they be teaming up with Roco? Does anyone have ANY information on this model? Are they offering a version with the high intakes? With the "inset foot rails"? 2003 is gonna be a COSTLY year!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 09:28:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI From: Jerry Britton On 10/1/02 9:16 AM, Bruce F. Smith (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > Jerry sez: >> Broadway Limited Imports sent out a dealer mailing dated 9/26 which >> contained the following info: >> * The PRR GG1 is due in March 2003. >> >> * The PRR M1a/M1b is due in June 2003. > > YIKES! How did the GG1 jump over the M1? Could they be teaming up with > Roco? Does anyone have ANY information on this model? Are they offering a > version with the high intakes? With the "inset foot rails"? 2003 is gonna > be a COSTLY year!! > The GG1 is all die-cast, so it is likely done at a different factory. Just conjecture on my part. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 09:33:39 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI Now there's an after-market product idea. Plastic high intakes (and a patch to cover the as-built ones) to update the Rivarossi/AHM GG-1. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Bruce F. Smith" wrote: > Jerry sez: > >Broadway Limited Imports sent out a dealer mailing dated 9/26 which > >contained the following info: > >* The PRR GG1 is due in March 2003. > > > >* The PRR M1a/M1b is due in June 2003. > > YIKES! How did the GG1 jump over the M1? Could they be teaming up with > Roco? Does anyone have ANY information on this model? Are they offering a > version with the high intakes? With the "inset foot rails"? 2003 is gonna > be a COSTLY year!! > > Happy Rails > Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:38:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI --part1_174.f956095.2acaff54_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And now a Long Shoremen's strike to boot. Wonder why importers sometimes pull their hair out? Oct. 10 delivery of the first BLI loco --- may be not. Evan --part1_174.f956095.2acaff54_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And now a Long Shoremen's strike to boot.  Wonder why importers sometimes pull their hair out?  Oct. 10 delivery of the first BLI loco --- may be not.

Evan --part1_174.f956095.2acaff54_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Update on BLI Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:38:26 -0500 BLI did appear to solve one thing, according to the review. Tractive effort of 4.64 oz isn't bad. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:53 AM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com; PRR5499@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI I wouldn't hold my breath on those schedules. I just got my October MR with the review and it looks like there are still teething problems. They tried to write a favorable review but 8.5 volts for a starting speed? Parts not painted on the engine? I think I'll still wait for the "field" review before jumping in on this one. > > Seeing is believing.......... > > The following is provided as a PSA (Public Service Announcement), regardless > > of who your dealer of choice is... > > > > Broadway Limited Imports sent out a dealer mailing dated 9/26 which > > contained the following info: > > > > * The NYC J1e is due to arrive to them on 10/10. Thereafter it will ship to > > dealers. There will be three shipments in total, so dealers may not receive > > their entire shipment during the first phase. Subsequent shipments will > > arrive in November and December. > > > > * The N&W Class A is due in March 2003 OR SOONER. > > > > * The PRR GG1 is due in March 2003. > > > > * The E7A is due in April 2003. > > > > * The PRR M1a/M1b is due in June 2003. > > > > * The USRA Heavy Mikado is due in August 2003. > > > > * The PRR T1 is due in October 2003. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 09:50:02 -0400 From: Godfrey Hall Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI ndbprr@att.net wrote: > > They tried to write a favorable review but 8.5 volts for a starting speed? Having had a chance to play with the "not for resale" demo units, I found this high starting voltage not a problem (for me). I was using an MRC controller and found that the sound & lights come on at about "10" on the scale. The loco starts to move at about "25" and moves off Sllooowwwllyy up to full scale speed. Now slowly is what you make it, but I felt about 1 rpm was not bad with no load. The space on the controller between "10 & 25" allows you to slow and stop the loco (and reverse it) without shutting off the sound. Godfrey Hall ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 10:00:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI From: Jerry Britton On 10/1/02 9:50 AM, Godfrey Hall (lcpgh@sympatico.ca) wrote: >> They tried to write a favorable review but 8.5 volts for a starting speed? > > Having had a chance to play with the "not for resale" demo units, I found this > high > starting voltage not a problem (for me). > I was using an MRC controller and found that the sound & lights come on at > about > "10" on the scale. The loco starts to move at about "25" and moves off > Sllooowwwllyy > up to full scale speed. Now slowly is what you make it, but I felt about 1 rpm > was > not bad with no load. > The space on the controller between "10 & 25" allows you to slow and stop the > loco > (and reverse it) without shutting off the sound. DCC users can also tweak the CV to adjust the starting voltage, one would assume. The review noted it could pull 21 passenger cars. That's quite an improvement over the mere four it was pulling on a level track during the convention! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:22:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI It's interesting, the MR review of the Hudson says that it achieved 75 mph on DCC; but they never said what the DCC voltage was. They did mention that the engine's electronics shut down if voltage exceeds 20 volts. Maybe that's what they were using for DCC! I assume the 8.5 V starting voltage for DC is to provide power for all the electronics and bells and whistles. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] Danger in Morning Sun Captions...grin Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 07:16:39 -0700 Doug and list, It wouldn't be the first mistake that Morning Sun has done...their SP (sorry for mentioning another road) book probably had more errors than correct captions...at least the pictures were good! And nobody says that you have to even change them at all... Bill On Mon, 30 Sep 2002 21:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Doug Kisala wrote: > Bill, list, > > You could very well be correct. The caption as I > remember it (I'm at work now and don't have Vol 2 > color guide) was that some of the H30As were built > with roller bearing trucks. Ian Fischer seems to do > pretty good research (much better than many of the > Morning Sun Books). > > Any freight car gurus with the real story, please pipe > up! > > I like my car, and changing trucks back to 70 tonners > with journal bearings wouldn't be the end of the > world. > > Doug > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:43:39 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI John says: >It's interesting, the MR review of the Hudson says that it achieved >75 mph on DCC; but they never said what the DCC voltage was. >They did mention that the engine's electronics shut down if voltage >exceeds 20 volts. Maybe that's what they were using for DCC! I >assume the 8.5 V starting voltage for DC is to provide power for all >the electronics and bells and whistles. Yep, and if you read the other MR reviews, it is not uncommon for a loco with a DC constant lighting board to require 2 to 5 volts just to get everything up and running before it moves...8.5V DC seems a little high, but then again, there are lots of "bells and whistles" !! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:14:25 -0400 Friends: If I correctly remember some early electronics projects using a bridge rectifier to create constant and reversing locomotive headlights, a three volt drop was SOP since that was how much the diodes used up to create the voltage for the lights. Add some other electronics to the circuit with another voltage drop and 8 volts doesn't sound too bad. Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce F. Smith" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI > John says: > >It's interesting, the MR review of the Hudson says that it achieved > >75 mph on DCC; but they never said what the DCC voltage was. > >They did mention that the engine's electronics shut down if voltage > >exceeds 20 volts. Maybe that's what they were using for DCC! I > >assume the 8.5 V starting voltage for DC is to provide power for all > >the electronics and bells and whistles. > > Yep, and if you read the other MR reviews, it is not uncommon for a loco > with a DC constant lighting board to require 2 to 5 volts just to get > everything up and running before it moves...8.5V DC seems a little high, > but then again, there are lots of "bells and whistles" !! > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 16:55:11 -0400 From: Bill Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS PHL Chapter meeting date change Phil Ritter, the editor of the Philadelphia Chapter's newsletter, asked me to please notify members on the Internet that the next meeting will be Saturday, October 19th instead of October 12th due to church usage of the facilities. There will be a modelers meeting on the 19th (which was not scheduled for the 12th). Please pass this along. Thanks, Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI voltage Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 21:51:26 +0000 Not ever having had an engine with so many electronic functions I have a couple of questions. If the engine starts moving at 8.5 volts does the motor see 8.5 volts before moving? If it does what is the long term effect on motor life to be in a stalled condition at rest? What do you see as motor life? Thanks, norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:25:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI In a message dated 10/1/02 9:21:06 AM Central Daylight Time, bobsin@nac.net writes: << It's interesting, the MR review of the Hudson says that it achieved 75 mph on DCC; but they never said what the DCC voltage was. They did mention that the engine's electronics shut down if voltage exceeds 20 volts. >> If I understand my DCC correctly, it operates at 13.5 Volts. The speed is varied by pulse width modulation. The locomotive I saw demonstrated at the National Hobby show operated very smoothly on both DC and DCC. As I previously indicated on at least one list,maybe this one, on an NCE throttle the software in the locomotive was set up so that the display read in scale miles per hour on 128 speed step setting. I could start it at 1 mph and smoothly move it up in increments of one mph with complete control. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI starting voltage question Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:13:48 +0000 Never having had an engine with all the electronics this purports to have I have a question about the starting voltage. Do all those faetures suck up the voltage or does the motor see 8.5 volts also? And if it does, what is the long term effect on it to sit there and not rotate? Do they burn out eventually? Thanks, norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 09:41:34 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] CANCELLED - RailFest Dinner Get-Together Greetings to the groups, I only received two replies to the Hoss's dinner inquiry. One was planning to attend and one was not. I suspect that RailFest attendance from our groups may be down this year. Also, those who are attending may have plans to shoot the E8s Saturday evening on their westward journey. Well, we'll try again next year. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI starting voltage question Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:10:44 -0400 Norm: The "features" absorb the first few volts because they have a low power draw, or lower resistance/reluctance than the field coil windings in the DC motor. The motor doesn't get any voltage at all, the features create what is referred to as a "voltage drop". When the overall voltage increases enough to overcome or surpass the amount absorbed or "dropped" by the accessories, the motor will begin to turn over. Until you reach that higher voltage, there is no stall condition on the motor at all. The motor will react exactly the same at the higher voltage with the accessories as it would as if the features were not there, and it was getting all the voltage and starting at a lower voltage rate. I hope I got this right. Its been years. :-) Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:13 PM Subject: [PRR] BLI starting voltage question > Never having had an engine with all the electronics this purports to have I > have a question about the starting voltage. Do all those faetures suck up the > voltage or does the motor see 8.5 volts also? And if it does, what is the long > term effect on it to sit there and not rotate? Do they burn out eventually? > Thanks, norm Bell > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:32:31 EDT Subject: [PRR] FOM and TrucTrain decals, vehicles I'm going outside my era for some stuff to run at the club. Looking for the following: 1. (earlier) Did any Middle Division Fleet of Modernism decals ever materialize beyond the annual convention? If so, where? 2. (later) Does anyone make pre-1960 decals for PRR truck trailers? Years ago, I picked up one set Walthers made probably about 60 years ago---it would probably disintegrate if I used it, and one trailer won't do it. BCW decals are 1960's era. 3. Does anyone make a reasonably priced ribbed (vertical) side trailer of the era? Or a reasonably priced corrugated (horizontal) side the same? I need a length which will allow two on the 75 foot 1954 cars . I realize there is a $28 or so kit for the specific PRR trailer, but it wouldn't take many of those to break the bank. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:38:47 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] FOM and TrucTrain decals, vehicles Bob, Sounds like my kind of club! Where is it? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > I'm going outside my era for some stuff to run at the club. Looking for the > following: > > 1. (earlier) Did any Middle Division Fleet of Modernism decals ever > materialize beyond the annual convention? If so, where? > > 2. (later) Does anyone make pre-1960 decals for PRR truck trailers? Years > ago, I picked up one set Walthers made probably about 60 years ago---it would > probably disintegrate if I used it, and one trailer won't do it. BCW decals > are 1960's era. > > 3. Does anyone make a reasonably priced ribbed (vertical) side trailer of > the era? Or a reasonably priced corrugated (horizontal) side the same? I > need a length which will allow two on the 75 foot 1954 cars . > > I realize there is a $28 or so kit for the specific PRR trailer, but it > wouldn't take many of those to break the bank. > > Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:17:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Update on BLI 0100,0100,0100Bob Z. said DCC is 13.5 volts; this is probably a typical value for the peak (plus and minus) voltage, but NMRA S-9.1 states that the RMS value measured at the track shall not exceed by more than two volts the voltage specified in standard S9 for the applicable scale. So this is scale-dependent, but I don't have S9 handy. S- 9.1 goes on to say that in no case shall the peak amplitude exceed plus and minus 22 volts. Maybe such high values are only used in the large scales. The BLI locomotives probably have a pretty sophisticated way of using the applied voltages, and may treat DCC totally different from DC; they might for example have a series "diode drop" approach to DC, but on DCC not "waste" the 8.5 volts, since on DCC there is always plenty of voltage on the track to operate lights and whatnot. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] Painting of freight cars - last gap filled Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:06:03 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C26A2D.9B6EAEF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all! I didn't think that Jack could find it, but he did! The "missing" piece of the puzzle was the 1955 painting instructions (no, not lettering, just painting), which he managed to lay his hands on recently. This means we can put together the PRR's intentions for painting freight cars all the way from 1953 to 1961 (and later) without gaps. I will post the high points later, but it appears that several questions might have been answered. Key among these was the issue of roof painting and interior painting of open top cars. It appears that it was PRR's intention to get all of their new boxcars and covered hoppers' roofs (which were by this time almost exclusively galvanized steel) coated with asphaltum as the final coat. Repaints were simply painted over with fc color, presumably if the asphaltum didn't require maintenance. So, why were there so many cars that did not adhere to this practice? I think we need to talk to car shops folks to find this one out. There ARE clearly cars that did not get a coat of asphaltum. Why? It also appears that after a certain date (1953 at the latest), only new hoppers and gons had their interiors painted. ALL repaints and rebuilds were unpainted unless new steel was applied. Makes sense from a cost standpoint! What it means to us as modelers is a choice. If your cars are "unpainted since new" consider some "almost black" roofs and interior paint on open top cars (but not over wood). If repainted, you can do "peeling fc color over black/brown" or "completely peeled off paint showing asphaltum color", "peeling paint off of bare galvanized", or fc color alone. Your choice. Of course, it'd always be a good idea to check all the available photos of your car of choice to see what things appeared to be. Makes modeling more interesting, doesn't it? More later, and best of the day, Elden P.S. Rob S., get me your address! ------_=_NextPart_001_01C26A2D.9B6EAEF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] Painting of freight cars - last gap filled

Hi all!
I didn't think that Jack could find it, but he = did!  The "missing" piece of the puzzle was the 1955 = painting instructions (no, not lettering, just painting), which he = managed to lay his hands on recently.  This means we can put = together the PRR's intentions for painting freight cars all the way = from 1953 to 1961 (and later) without gaps.  I will post the high = points later, but it appears that several questions might have been = answered.  Key among these was the issue of roof painting and = interior painting of open top cars.

It appears that it was PRR's intention to get all of = their new boxcars and covered hoppers' roofs (which were by this time = almost exclusively galvanized steel) coated with asphaltum as the final = coat.  Repaints were simply painted over with fc color, presumably = if the asphaltum didn't require maintenance.

So, why were there so many cars that did not adhere = to this practice?  I think we need to talk to car shops folks to = find this one out.  There ARE clearly cars that did not get a coat = of asphaltum.  Why?

It also appears that after a certain date (1953 at = the latest), only new hoppers and gons had their interiors = painted.  ALL repaints and rebuilds were unpainted unless new = steel was applied.  Makes sense from a cost standpoint!

What it means to us as modelers is a choice.  If = your cars are "unpainted since new" consider some = "almost black" roofs and interior paint on open top cars (but = not over wood).  If repainted, you can do "peeling fc color = over black/brown" or "completely peeled off paint showing = asphaltum color", "peeling paint off of bare = galvanized", or fc color alone.  Your choice.  Of = course, it'd always be a good idea to check all the available photos of = your car of choice to see what things appeared to be.  Makes = modeling more interesting, doesn't it?

More later, and best of the day,
Elden
P.S. Rob S., get me your address!

------_=_NextPart_001_01C26A2D.9B6EAEF0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:03:02 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] Contact for NKP Car Co. Hello y'all, Does anyone have either a telephone or email contact for NKP Car Co., producer of brass car sides? I need to contact them about an order which appears to have gone astray, since they've cashed my check and I don't have the goods! In this day of instant communication, I'd hate to have to just send them a letter (I do have their snail mail)! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: Re: [PRR] Budd doodlebug Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:11:05 -0400 Norm, I just received the latest issue of the PRRT&HS's Philla chapter's Highline (vol 18 #2, autumn 2002) and it has an article about these cars. It has lots of photos, a reprint of a PR publication about them and pretty good plans. The cars were #'s 4688 & 4689. Originally classed OEG125 and OEG125a. They were later reclassed GEG125 & GEG125a and finally MPB48 & GEG190. The PRR floorplan diagram for the MPB48 is on my website @ http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=mpb48_fp.gif You should be able to get a copy from them. Check their website at: http://www.prrths.com/Phila_New_Index.htm Rob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Budd doodlebug From: Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 13:08:39 +0000 Budd made a stainless steel fluted self propelled car with rubber tires that the PRR tried on the Norristown branch. Trains had a brief article on it many years ago. It was a disaster because it kept getting flat tires. Does anybody know of any good pictures or drawings that I could use to build one? Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Garry Spear Subject: RE: [PRR] Painting of freight cars - last gap filled Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:08:40 -0400 Ok. Then is seems that the roofs of many of the new cars were not painted or covered with asphaltum. What color would the roof and end walks be painted or not painted. The new Branchline kits have black plastic roof and end walks. Were these painted or non painted metal or non painted wood. The question is what color do I paint these parts when I assemble these cars? Garry Spear -----Original Message----- From: ELDEN GATWOOD [SMTP:ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 12:06 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Painting of freight cars - last gap filled Hi all! I didn't think that Jack could find it, but he did! The "missing" piece of the puzzle was the 1955 painting instructions (no, not lettering, just painting), which he managed to lay his hands on recently. This means we can put together the PRR's intentions for painting freight cars all the way from 1953 to 1961 (and later) without gaps. I will post the high points later, but it appears that several questions might have been answered. Key among these was the issue of roof painting and interior painting of open top cars. It appears that it was PRR's intention to get all of their new boxcars and covered hoppers' roofs (which were by this time almost exclusively galvanized steel) coated with asphaltum as the final coat. Repaints were simply painted over with fc color, presumably if the asphaltum didn't require maintenance. So, why were there so many cars that did not adhere to this practice? I think we need to talk to car shops folks to find this one out. There ARE clearly cars that did not get a coat of asphaltum. Why? It also appears that after a certain date (1953 at the latest), only new hoppers and gons had their interiors painted. ALL repaints and rebuilds were unpainted unless new steel was applied. Makes sense from a cost standpoint! What it means to us as modelers is a choice. If your cars are "unpainted since new" consider some "almost black" roofs and interior paint on open top cars (but not over wood). If repainted, you can do "peeling fc color over black/brown" or "completely peeled off paint showing asphaltum color", "peeling paint off of bare galvanized", or fc color alone. Your choice. Of course, it'd always be a good idea to check all the available photos of your car of choice to see what things appeared to be. Makes modeling more interesting, doesn't it? More later, and best of the day, Elden P.S. Rob S., get me your address! << File: ATT00000.htm >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] Painting of freight cars - last gap Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:03:58 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C26A5F.9B50DB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" OK, I seemed to have missed the point a bit. I would speculate that the ends ONLY (that overhanging the end) of the roofwalk would be fc color, with the part centered over the roof black. As-built. Repaints would be fc color all over. There would also be overspray from the painting of the sides that would tend to "feather" the color over the black, particularly on that portion of the roof that bends over and attaches to the sides. End walks might have a bit of overspray, but they are on the roof, so overwhelmingly black. Sound right? Elden -----Original Message----- From: Garry Spear [mailto:gspear01@erols.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 1:09 PM To: 'ELDEN GATWOOD'; PRR-Talk@dsop.com; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com Subject: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] Painting of freight cars - last gap filled Ok. Then is seems that the roofs of many of the new cars were not painted or covered with asphaltum. What color would the roof and end walks be painted or not painted. The new Branchline kits have black plastic roof and end walks. Were these painted or non painted metal or non painted wood. The question is what color do I paint these parts when I assemble these cars? Garry Spear -----Original Message----- From: ELDEN GATWOOD [SMTP:ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 12:06 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Painting of freight cars - last gap filled Hi all! I didn't think that Jack could find it, but he did! The "missing" piece of the puzzle was the 1955 painting instructions (no, not lettering, just painting), which he managed to lay his hands on recently. This means we can put together the PRR's intentions for painting freight cars all the way from 1953 to 1961 (and later) without gaps. I will post the high points later, but it appears that several questions might have been answered. Key among these was the issue of roof painting and interior painting of open top cars. It appears that it was PRR's intention to get all of their new boxcars and covered hoppers' roofs (which were by this time almost exclusively galvanized steel) coated with asphaltum as the final coat. Repaints were simply painted over with fc color, presumably if the asphaltum didn't require maintenance. So, why were there so many cars that did not adhere to this practice? I think we need to talk to car shops folks to find this one out. There ARE clearly cars that did not get a coat of asphaltum. Why? It also appears that after a certain date (1953 at the latest), only new hoppers and gons had their interiors painted. ALL repaints and rebuilds were unpainted unless new steel was applied. Makes sense from a cost standpoint! What it means to us as modelers is a choice. If your cars are "unpainted since new" consider some "almost black" roofs and interior paint on open top cars (but not over wood). If repainted, you can do "peeling fc color over black/brown" or "completely peeled off paint showing asphaltum color", "peeling paint off of bare galvanized", or fc color alone. Your choice. Of course, it'd always be a good idea to check all the available photos of your car of choice to see what things appeared to be. Makes modeling more interesting, doesn't it? More later, and best of the day, Elden P.S. Rob S., get me your address! << File: ATT00000.htm >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Sharing and enjoying our memories and materials and methods to better reproduce the PRR in miniature ! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-Modeling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ------_=_NextPart_001_01C26A5F.9B50DB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
OK, I seemed to have missed the point a bit.
I would speculate that the ends ONLY (that overhanging the end) of the roofwalk would be fc color, with the part centered over the roof black.  As-built.
Repaints would be fc color all over.  There would also be overspray from the painting of the sides that would tend to "feather" the color over the black, particularly on that portion of the roof that bends over and attaches to the sides.  End walks might have a bit of overspray, but they are on the roof, so overwhelmingly black.  Sound right?
Elden
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Garry Spear [mailto:gspear01@erols.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 1:09 PM
To: 'ELDEN GATWOOD'; PRR-Talk@dsop.com; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] Painting of freight cars - last gap filled

Ok.  Then is seems that the roofs of many of the new cars were not painted
or covered with asphaltum.  What color would the roof and end walks be
painted or not painted.  The new Branchline kits have black plastic roof
and end walks.  Were these painted or non painted metal or non painted
wood.  The question is what color do I paint these parts when I assemble
these cars?

Garry Spear

-----Original Message-----
From:      ELDEN GATWOOD [SMTP:ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com]
Sent:      Wednesday, October 02, 2002 12:06 PM
To:      PRR-Talk@dsop.com; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com
Subject:      RE: [PRR] Painting of freight cars - last gap filled

Hi all!
I didn't think that Jack could find it, but he did!  The "missing" piece of
the puzzle was the 1955 painting instructions (no, not lettering, just
painting), which he managed to lay his hands on recently.  This means we
can
put together the PRR's intentions for painting freight cars all the way
from
1953 to 1961 (and later) without gaps.  I will post the high points later,
but it appears that several questions might have been answered.  Key among
these was the issue of roof painting and interior painting of open top
cars.
It appears that it was PRR's intention to get all of their new boxcars and
covered hoppers' roofs (which were by this time almost exclusively
galvanized steel) coated with asphaltum as the final coat.  Repaints were
simply painted over with fc color, presumably if the asphaltum didn't
require maintenance.
So, why were there so many cars that did not adhere to this practice?  I
think we need to talk to car shops folks to find this one out.  There ARE
clearly cars that did not get a coat of asphaltum.  Why?
It also appears that after a certain date (1953 at the latest), only new
hoppers and gons had their interiors painted.  ALL repaints and rebuilds
were unpainted unless new steel was applied.  Makes sense from a cost
standpoint!
What it means to us as modelers is a choice.  If your cars are "unpainted
since new" consider some "almost black" roofs and interior paint on open
top
cars (but not over wood).  If repainted, you can do "peeling fc color over
black/brown" or "completely peeled off paint showing asphaltum color",
"peeling paint off of bare galvanized", or fc color alone.  Your choice.
Of
course, it'd always be a good idea to check all the available photos of
your
car of choice to see what things appeared to be.  Makes modeling more
interesting, doesn't it?
More later, and best of the day,
Elden
P.S. Rob S., get me your address!
<< File: ATT00000.htm >>


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------_=_NextPart_001_01C26A5F.9B50DB00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] SD-7 Decal Question Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:40:18 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C26A6D.1076DD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen: First, I would like to thank all you replied to my question regarding the= radio antennas used on SD-7's and SD-9's. It really helped me out. I do have one question regarding the availability of the EMD biulders pla= tes in decal form. I am aware that Micro Scale has produced a set for eng= ines in general (87-0134). I have thsi sheet; however, there are only eno= ugh EMD decals (6), to do three engines. =20 My question is do you know if there are other producers of the EMD builde= rs plate (old version) in decal form? =20 TIA Ted M. Andrews ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C26A6D.1076DD00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gentlemen:
 
First, I would like to thank all you replied to= my question regarding the radio antennas used on SD-7's and SD-9's. It r= eally helped me out.
 
I do have one question = regarding the availability of the EMD biulders plates in decal form. I am= aware that Micro Scale has produced a set for engines in general (8= 7-0134). I have thsi sheet; however, there are only enough EMD decals (6)= , to do three engines.
 
My question is do yo= u know if there are other producers of the EMD builders plate (old versio= n) in decal form?
 
TIA
 
Ted M. Andrews

------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C26A6D.1076DD00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:36:48 -0700 (PDT) From: andy mulhollen Subject: [PRR] K4 #1361 Smokestack on eBay Greetings to the List, I just wanted to remind everyone of this weekends Railfest here in Altoona. We still have excursion seats left for sale. The origional smokestack from the K4 #1361 has been placed on eBay. There is a reserve. This stack had to be replaced as it was cracked and worn where it attatched to the smokebox (which also has been replaced). Please pass this info on to whomever you feel may be interested in it. Proceeds from this sale will be used in the K4 restoration project. Dr Andy Mulhollen Secretary Board of Directors Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] tunnels Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:50:58 +0000 I was thinking about tunnels and can only come up with five locations on the PRR: 1. the river tunnels into NYC 2. Baltimore 3. Spruce Creek 4. Tunnel Hill 5. Port Road Out here in the midwest people get nose bleeds from stepping up onto curbs so I doubt there are any this way but are there any others? That doesn't seem to be too many for the mileage the PRR had. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 Decal Question Ted, I know of no other "Hot Dog" builders plates. I think it is a ploy from Micro Scale to get you to keep buying sheet after sheet of decals by supplying you only a limited few on a sheet. It would be so simple for them to produce a complete sheet of hot dogs (how many would fit on a sheet- about 200 pair?). Even a small MC sheet could hold 50 pair! But then again, that would make too much sense. They rather have you spend $5.00 after $5.00 after $5.00.......... Just my $5.00 worth.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:07:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels From: Jerry Britton On 10/3/02 8:50 AM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > I was thinking about tunnels and can only come up with five locations on the > PRR: > 1. the river tunnels into NYC > 2. Baltimore > 3. Spruce Creek > 4. Tunnel Hill > 5. Port Road At the west end of the Rockville Bridge there are several underpasses that I think really should be termed "tunnels". I am not referring to the flyover of the passenger mains over the one set of Enola leads (which has a bridge structure), but rather the Enola leads closer to the river that go under the freight mains. Their construction does not include a bridge, but rather tunnel portals and tunnel linings, with earth above and around them. I've walked through two of them. They are tunnels. A technicality! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:08:09 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels In a message dated 10/3/02 7:58:27 AM Central Daylight Time, ndbprr@att.net writes: << are there any others? >> I don't know if it is long enough to qualify as a tunnel, but isn't the produce or team track yard in Washington reached by an underground (or underbuilding) arrangement of some sort? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels Norm, Add these 3 also: 1. Coming off the Port Perry Branch over the Mon River in Pittsburgh heading east. 2 Coming off the Panhandle Bridge in Pittsburgh over the Mon (tachnically not a land tunnel but it does tunnel under the city to the station)(now used as a mass transit bridge) 3. Goul (spelling) Tunnel on the Panhandle in Ohio......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:20:59 -0400 Norm, There's also the Virginia Avenue tunnel in Washington, DC. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 8:50 AM Subject: [PRR] tunnels > I was thinking about tunnels and can only come up with five locations on the > PRR: > 1. the river tunnels into NYC > 2. Baltimore > 3. Spruce Creek > 4. Tunnel Hill > 5. Port Road > > Out here in the midwest people get nose bleeds from stepping up onto curbs so I > doubt there are any this way but are there any others? That doesn't seem to be > too many for the mileage the PRR had. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:24:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels One of the divisions I was responsible for at one time, extended from "the west portal of Gould Tunnel." It was near Pittsburgh, as I recall. Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:26:47 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels There is the tunnel under the US Capitol Plaza from Union Station to L'Enfant Plaza area. It is used by all passenger trains from the PRR going south of DC. Was that PRR or Washington Union Terminal Co? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/3/02 7:58:27 AM Central Daylight Time, ndbprr@att.net > writes: > > << are there any others? >> > > I don't know if it is long enough to qualify as a tunnel, but isn't the > produce or team track yard in Washington reached by an underground (or > underbuilding) arrangement of some sort? > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 Decal Question Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:38:11 -0400 For HO, try the Micro Scale mini set #4056. This is just builders plates - nine different EMD and GE plates - 10 each. Dennis mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com Featuring over 10,000 IN-STOCK model railroad items 90A Jersey Avenue New Brunswick, NJ 08901 732-565-1555 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:45:51 -0400 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels Add the Saltsburg tunnel (new and old alignments) on the Connemaugh Division. Radebaugh on the Pittsburgh Division near Greensburg (daylighted when the track was realigned). Also one remaining on the Chartiers branch. There were two but one was daylighted when the state highway overhead was rebuilt. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:52:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels From: Jerry Britton On 10/3/02 8:50 AM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > I was thinking about tunnels and can only come up with five locations on the > PRR: > 1. the river tunnels into NYC > 2. Baltimore > 3. Spruce Creek > 4. Tunnel Hill > 5. Port Road There's a very old tunnel...no longer in use...just north of Columbia, Pa., on the Royalton Branch. It's underneath "Chickie's Rock". I think the name is "Flat Rock Tunnel", or is my memory confusing the name with the one on the Reading line along the Schuylkill expressway in Philadelphia? Where's Bruce Smith when you need him? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels Norm Just remembered another one. Up near Red Bank, Pa. in Phillipsburg? Phillipston? Pa. I was there several years ago to check out the still standing (was then , not sure now) Coaling Tower. The tunnel is located right at the Phillipsburg? yard and I believe it heads north to Red Bank.....hasn't been in service since late PC or early CR days.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 07:09:41 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels --- SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > Add the Saltsburg tunnel (new and old alignments) on the Conemaugh > Division. Avonmore (old alignment), also Hyde Park, abandoned sometime before WW2. > Radebaugh on the Pittsburgh Division near Greensburg (daylighted > when the track was realigned). Actually, two tunnels at Radebaugh. The older one is still there but inaccessable. Once upon at time, downtown Greensburg. There is still a Tunnel Street in Greensburg but the tunnel was daylighted. Also Donahoe, before the 1900-1910 relocation of the main line. > Also one remaining on the Chartiers branch. There were two but one > was daylighted when the state highway overhead was rebuilt. On the Low Grade Branch of the Allegheny Division: Sabula (through the divide between Susquehanna and Ohio watersheds) and a short curved tunnel at Caledonia. On the main line of the Allegheny Division, tunnels at Brady's Bend and two other places (names escape me at the moment) which avoided loops in the Allegheny River. The RR originally followed around the loops, the tunnels were a later improvement. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:20:39 -0400 From: Alex Charyna Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels Flat-rock was a Reading Tunnel. It's visible from the Schuylkill Exp a few miles north of the Belmont Ave exit. You can read the stone at one of the entrances. I believe it was from 1840.. Philly Terminal Tunnels: >From 22nd Street (i think) into Suburban Station. It was a spur in PRR times, going to 16th street. Now it goes clear through under the old Reading Terminal and out at 9th Street north of Vine. Also, coming out of the upper level of 30th Street Station, the tracks headed South towards Arsenal go underneath 32nd Street for a few blocks. Also in that tunnel is a turnout which takes you out into the Race Street/Powelton Yard. Last I'd seen it, it looked in disrepair so I doubt Septa has used it. If ever. -alex On Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:52:40 -0400 Jerry Britton wrote: > On 10/3/02 8:50 AM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > > > I was thinking about tunnels and can only come up with five locations on the > > PRR: > > 1. the river tunnels into NYC > > 2. Baltimore > > 3. Spruce Creek > > 4. Tunnel Hill > > 5. Port Road > > There's a very old tunnel...no longer in use...just north of Columbia, Pa., > on the Royalton Branch. It's underneath "Chickie's Rock". I think the name > is "Flat Rock Tunnel", or is my memory confusing the name with the one on > the Reading line along the Schuylkill expressway in Philadelphia? > > Where's Bruce Smith when you need him? ;-) > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] tunnels Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:36:16 +0000 Looks like we are going to prtty much limit this to Pennsylvania except for Baltimore and DC. I wonder if there was ever a PRR generated list or department to maintain them? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:51:31 -0400 From: Christopher Hoess Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 10:20:39AM -0400, Alex Charyna wrote: > > Also, coming out of the upper level of 30th Street Station, the tracks > headed South towards Arsenal go underneath 32nd Street for a few blocks. > Also in that tunnel is a turnout which takes you out into the Race > Street/Powelton Yard. > > Last I'd seen it, it looked in disrepair so I doubt Septa has used it. > If ever. That's one end of the old Gray's Ferry Branch, which has been abandoned for at least ten years and likely more. I notice no one has yet mentioned the Elizabethtown cut, which is a daylighted tunnel (although it may have been opened up in the Harrisburg, Portsmouth, Mt. Joy & Lancaster days) or the three tunnels on the "Port Road", Wildcat, Frazer, and Williams. The first two were south of the Pennsylvania line. For that matter, the responses I've seen have also admitted the two tunnels on the Schuylkill Valley Branch at Phoenixville and St. Clair, and (of course!) the New York tubes. -- Chris Hoess ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:57:53 -0400 Andy, That's the Virginia Avenue Tunnel I was referring to. It was a PRR tunnel leading to the Long Bridge over the Potomac, which was owned by PRR. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew S. Miller" To: Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels > There is the tunnel under the US Capitol Plaza from Union Station to L'Enfant > Plaza area. It is used by all passenger trains from the PRR going south of > DC. Was that PRR or Washington Union Terminal Co? > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > ================================================== > Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/3/02 7:58:27 AM Central Daylight Time, ndbprr@att.net > > writes: > > > > << are there any others? >> > > > > I don't know if it is long enough to qualify as a tunnel, but isn't the > > produce or team track yard in Washington reached by an underground (or > > underbuilding) arrangement of some sort? > > > > Bob Zoeller > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > -- > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:52:29 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Looks like we are going to prtty much limit this to > Pennsylvania except for Baltimore and DC. Virginia Ave was not PRR, being either B&O or Washington Terminal (hint: Look at signals: CPL, unless changed... 8)>>) > I wonder if there was ever a PRR generated list or department to > maintain them? I'm guessing this was per division? Also: Has anyone mentioned Gallitzin? best dwp ...the net of a million lies... Vernor Vinge There are Many Web Sites which Say Many Things. -me ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] PRR districts, regions, divions Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:37:35 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C26AC8.E302A500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; Is there a "list", description or something, describing all the PRR = regions, divisions and so on? Earl Myers Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C26AC8.E302A500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 Is there a "list", description or = something,=20 describing all the PRR regions, divisions and so on?
Earl Myers
Lines West
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C26AC8.E302A500-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:08:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels Many of the urban tunnels mentioned contained track that was originally at ground level. The track between 30th Street Station and Suburban Station used to be on the surface until the old Chinese Wall was torn down. Is it still a "tunnel" when the track is roofed over to allow construction on the air rights? A hole through a mountain is a tunnel. A tube under a river is a tunnel. But, if you fill in a crease or a valley, is it still a tunnel? Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Conan Evans" Subject: RE: [PRR] tunnels Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:23:10 -0400 On the Northern Central, is/was there a short, curving tunnel? I believe I've seen a pic in Trains, cir early '70's of a PC - E and (1) pass car exiting this tunnel. The caption mentioned how the '72 Agnes storm took this area of the line out. I'll check my archive. Conan Evans Bristow, VA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 11:24:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR districts, regions, divions From: Jerry Britton On 10/3/02 10:37 AM, Earl Myers (emyers5@neo.rr.com) wrote: > Is there a "list", description or something, describing all the PRR regions, > divisions and so on? Not over all time, but the organization from 1941 to 1968 is at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/prr_structure_1941-1968.html ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:46:14 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels Jerry mentioned >There's a very old tunnel...no longer in use...just north of Columbia, Pa., >on the Royalton Branch. It's underneath "Chickie's Rock". I think the name >is "Flat Rock Tunnel", or is my memory confusing the name with the one on >the Reading line along the Schuylkill expressway in Philadelphia? > >Where's Bruce Smith when you need him? ;-) Remarkably enough for me (the perfesser), I was teaching this morning ! Now, whetehr the students were doing any learning is another whole topic!!! The tunnel Jerry described was on the Columia branch, just north of Columbia PA. I've heard it called "Chickies tunnel", but Chickies Rock is actually furhter to the north. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:53:52 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: RE: [PRR] Contact for NKP Car Co. Howdy, I wanted to thank all of you who sent contact information for NKP Car Co. They have a nice web site at: http://www.nkpcarco.com/ and produce quite a variety of passenger car kits. Among their latest, and the one I'm waiting for is a PRR PB70d, a modernized PB70 combine, that I hope to paint in the "Fleet of Modernism" scheme. I got a VERY fast response from NKP and they assured me that the kits await one part from a resin caster, and since I have an order pending with that company too, and they have a BIG meet coming in Naperville at the end of this month, I should have my kits form both sources in November! Now all we need if for Middle Division to release their new FOM decal set! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 11:57:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels From: Jerry Britton On 10/3/02 11:23 AM, Conan Evans (cevans@onlinesecurities.net) wrote: > On the Northern Central, is/was there a short, curving tunnel? I believe > I've seen a pic in Trains, cir early '70's of a PC - E and (1) pass car > exiting this tunnel. The caption mentioned how the '72 Agnes storm took > this area of the line out. I'll check my archive. > YES! I can't believe I didn't remember it! Yes, it's just south of York, Pa. Was originally two track but is currently one track and a rail trail. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] tunnels Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:12:02 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C26AF7.9BAFC7D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" yes, there were also numerous tunnels along the Panhandle between Pittsburgh and Wheeling, including the one right off the Ohio River near Corliss that all the passenger stuff was sent through. Port Perry was (and is) between Pitcairn yard and the Monongahela River (and Port Perry bridge)/Monongahela Division/Branch. PRR/PC/Conrail each had large format books full of track plans that illustrated each structure or obstacle that crossed, in any way (over/under/across), every stretch of track on the railroad. These were for the maintenance crews. They contain really interesting info like date built, construction, type of crossing, etc. This includes tunnels, each of which has a name. Back in earlier days, PRR maintained gobs of pedestrian crossing bridges, too. These were installed in the heyday when PRR was looking to avoid more at-grade pedestrian accidents. As cars became more prevalent in the post-war period, these little bridges (most iron in my area) were much less utilized and many fell into disrepair. Regardless, each Region and Division had to keep them minimally maintained to prevent folks from falling through the boards and all. I remember dozens of them that had been closed down in late PRR and PC days by boarding off the ends, that we explored all the same. Each one of them appears on my old track charts. As part of the grade separation efforts, there were also numerous "tunnels" under many stretches of track that were created by the PRR to minimize at-grade crossings of vehicles, thereby minimizing stoppage of trains. But, I digress... Elden ------_=_NextPart_001_01C26AF7.9BAFC7D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] tunnels

yes, there were also numerous tunnels along the = Panhandle between Pittsburgh and Wheeling, including the one right off = the Ohio River near Corliss that all the passenger stuff was sent = through.  Port Perry was (and is) between Pitcairn yard and the = Monongahela River (and Port Perry bridge)/Monongahela = Division/Branch.

PRR/PC/Conrail each had large format books full of = track plans that illustrated each structure or obstacle that crossed, = in any way (over/under/across), every stretch of track on the = railroad.  These were for the maintenance crews.  They = contain really interesting info like date built, construction, type of = crossing, etc.  This includes tunnels, each of which has a = name.  Back in earlier days, PRR maintained gobs of pedestrian = crossing bridges, too.  These were installed in the heyday when = PRR was looking to avoid more at-grade pedestrian accidents.  As = cars became more prevalent in the post-war period, these little bridges = (most iron in my area) were much less utilized and many fell into = disrepair.  Regardless, each Region and Division had to keep them = minimally maintained to prevent folks from falling through the boards = and all.  I remember dozens of them that had been closed down in = late PRR and PC days by boarding off the ends, that we explored all the = same.  Each one of them appears on my old track charts.  As = part of the grade separation efforts, there were also numerous = "tunnels" under many stretches of track that were created by = the PRR to minimize at-grade crossings of vehicles, thereby minimizing = stoppage of trains.  But, I digress...

Elden

------_=_NextPart_001_01C26AF7.9BAFC7D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:27:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels Dare I nominate the Long Island Rail Road Bay Ridge Branch, which disappears underground for a fair piece in the vicinity of East New York, passing under the LIRR Atlantic Branch? Not sure how this was constructed, whether this could have been a cut at one time, but there is a decent size hill over the northern part of the "tunnel." It may have been bored. Had catenary in its glory days. Anybody know about the tunnel? And of course there's most of the Atlantic Branch itself, clearly a cut-and-cover affair. The line is forced to the surface at East New York to clear the Bay Ridge line crossing beneath. Hey, those are still real position-light signals, at least on the elevated portions! John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 11:21:55 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Budd doodlebug From: John Sheets Norm PBS did a show entitled "streamliners" they showed construction of the unit at the Budd Company plant and some finished photos of it on the Reading. It was RDG #72 It was used primarily on the New Hope Branch but had significant problems, esp with tires. Believe the PRR unit was the same or similar one. the floorplan Rob posted looks similar to the RDG unit, but the PRR MPB48 has a mail compartment. I have tape of the PBS show, and will send you a separate email with a photo of the RDG unit attached. Unfotunately photo is jot very clear, but will give you a general idea of the shape and outside config of the unit I know you are in Chicago, I will not be able to attend this w/e kickoff, but could send you the tape to borrow. You might also want to check the PBS website for resources. search under 'streamliners' Regards John -- John Sheets Vice President Sales & Marketing MPA Inc. 473 Dunham Road Saint Charles, Illinois 60174 PH: (630) 584-8556 Cell: (708) 710-3904 FAX: (630) 762-1452 Email: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:28:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels --part1_76.237b8cf6.2acdca1a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about Radebaugh it was daylighted in the 50's? Ray Burghart SPF for over 50 years --part1_76.237b8cf6.2acdca1a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about Radebaugh it was daylighted in the 50's?

Ray Burghart
SPF for over 50 years --part1_76.237b8cf6.2acdca1a_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:30:04 -0400 From: Zak Subject: [PRR] F7A Antenna Support Stand Query This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_fOiWQbyUBtGv8X+zFRmLrA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello, List. I have started to modify a couple of Athearn F7As for a static display, and am using many of the items listed in "Greg Martin Details the Athearn Genesis F7's" article in Keystone Crossings. I have a couple of questions regarding the Cal-Scale (190-402 F-unit) antenna support stand package. I bought two packages. Each has only 13 supports. The photo with each package shows 14 supports. How many supports did the F7A have? If the photo is wrong and only 12 were used, fine, but could anyone direct me to a site with photos and/or diagrams showing the actual locations of the stands? If the photo is correct, could anyone give me either the web address or the e-mail address for Cal-Scale, as I'd like to get replacement packages. Thanks in advance. Zak --Boundary_(ID_fOiWQbyUBtGv8X+zFRmLrA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello, List.
 
I have started to modify a couple of Athearn F7As for a static display, and am using many of the items listed in "Greg Martin Details the Athearn Genesis F7's" article in Keystone Crossings.
 
I have a couple of questions regarding the Cal-Scale (190-402 F-unit) antenna support stand package.
 
I bought two packages.  Each has only 13 supports.  The photo with each package shows 14 supports.
 
How many supports did the F7A have?
 
If the photo is wrong and only 12 were used, fine, but could anyone direct me to a site with photos and/or diagrams showing the actual locations of the stands?
 
If the photo is correct, could anyone give me either the web address or the e-mail address for Cal-Scale, as I'd like to get replacement packages.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Zak
--Boundary_(ID_fOiWQbyUBtGv8X+zFRmLrA)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:49:50 -0400 From: Al Buchan Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels There were 5 tunnels on the Lake Division's Marietta Branch, between Bayard and Marietta. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: STEVEGG1@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:03:44 EDT Subject: [PRR] tunnels --part1_64.264faabb.2acdd270_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Howard Tunnel on the Northern Central south of York. In fact, would this qualify as the oldest RR tunnel in the US? Steve Panopoulos --part1_64.264faabb.2acdd270_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Howard Tunnel on the Northern Central south of York. In fact, would this qualify as the oldest RR tunnel in the US?
Steve Panopoulos --part1_64.264faabb.2acdd270_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:23:18 -0700 From: Ron Dugas Subject: [PRR] A little more Radebaugh info. was Re: Tunnels Hi NDB, All, The once extant tunnels at Radebaugh, were just west of milepost 323.2? >From my 1953 track chart it seems track 1 converged with track 2 and, along with track 3, went through an 850' double track bore while track 4 diverged to the north and went through a separate 450' single track bore. I believe that one (both?) of these bores were daylighted though I don't and am not sure whether it (they?) were opened by the Pennsy or by PC or Conrail. Respectfully, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:42:11 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] A little more Radebaugh info. was Re: Tunnels --- Ron Dugas wrote: > Hi NDB, All, > > The once extant tunnels at Radebaugh,... > I believe that one (both?) of these bores were daylighted > though I > don't and am not sure whether it (they?) were opened by the Pennsy > or by > PC or Conrail. I was resident in Latrobe when the main tunnel was daylighted. That would put it in the late 1950's or very early 1960's. The old tunnel remains as a tunnel, although I heard somewhere (Triumph I?) that it suffered a cave-in. Anyway, the work was done in PRR days, as I was gone from the area by the time PC came to be. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:53:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > Add the Saltsburg tunnel (new and old alignments) on the Connemaugh Division. > > Radebaugh on the Pittsburgh Division near Greensburg (daylighted when > the track was realigned). Well, there were 2 tunnels here; The tunnel on the new alignment was daylighted and the old one is still there. Also the Carney tunnel (bypassed by realignment but still there east of Donohoe) Carpenter's tunnel (bypassed by realignment and daylighted, or perhaps in the other order, and currently PA 993 just east of Trafford) 10 tunnels on the former Panhandle leading west out of Pittsburgh, some daylighted. At least 2, maybe more, I'm forgetting now, added on the Allegheny Valley to bypass loops in the river (Kennerdell is one; Another is near Brady's Bend) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: [PRR] Strasburg red caboose lodge Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:38:17 -0400 They're baaaack! "LANCASTER, Pa., 6:08 p.m. EDT October 2, 2002 - The Department of Environmental Protection shut down the Red Caboose Motel in Paradise Township, Lancaster County for the second time this year." (WGAL news) Again, nitrate levels were way too high and the owners failed to operate their nitrate removal system. AND, they didn't report the operation of their system to DEP. If they had made, or attempted to make, a court ordered report they would have realized that it wasn't turned on. This is either cupidity or stupidity or both; repeatedly and unnecessarily endangering people's health for profit. Lew Matt Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Septic and Energy Systems. Advocating sustainable composting toilets and gray water systems. Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:42:36 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] More on PRR tunnels Greetings to Jerry, Marty and the List: PRR referred to tunnels as either Natural or Artificial, and apparently the distinction wasn't always related to the difference in construction technique (cut-and-cover versus boring through rock). For example, PRR considered all six of its PT&T tunnels at Weehawken/Penn Station/Sunnyside Yard to be artificial (yet those weren't cut-and-cover), as well as all eleven of those related to the Suburban Station/30th Street/Zoo complex (most if not all of which *were* cut-and-cover). Besides the tunnels that have been noted in posts already, the following existed on Lines East. (On Lines West, most have already been mentioned here by others except for one or two on PRR's approach to Cincinnati and the three--one of them still active--that were on PRR's approach to Wheeling, W.Va.) Phila Div. Gallagherville Enola (3-these would be the artificial ones that Jerry mentioned) Schuylkill Div. Phoenixville Middle Div. East Altoona (artificial) Cresson Div. Carrolltown Pittsburgh Div. New Portage Lindencross Conemaugh Div. Bow Salina Leechburg Allegheny Div. Wood Hill Long Point Climax Brookville Summit Caledonia Williamsport Div. Paddy Mountain Beaver Dam (These two were on the ex-Lewisburg & Tyrone branch and one or both is/are still open as a rail-trail.) Sunbury St. Clair Baltimore Fulton St. Winans Marysville Also, considering those subsidiary roads that were closely held, there were/are at least two on the Monongahela Railway (one built in the late 1960s) and one on the Western Allegheny RR. Hope this helps, Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:12:16 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] More on PRR tunnels So what is the difference between a "natural" and an "artificial" tunnel? In Virginia, a natural tunnel is just that: one that was made by Mother Nature and later -- much later by about 1 million years -- used by the railroads. see: http://www.dcr.state.va.us/parks/naturalt.htm Jim McDaniel, living in tunnel-less Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:02:41 -0400 From: Christopher Hoess Subject: Re: [PRR] More on PRR tunnels Two more tunnels as yet unmentioned: The former mine tunnel on the Lykens Valley RR, used to bring that line north from Williamstown through the mountain into Bear Valley. If we can count predecessor roads, the eastern division of the Danville & Pottsville (only the western division survived to become part of the PRR system as the Shamokin Valley & Pottsville) built what I believe was the second rail tunnel in the U.S. just north of its connection with the Mt. Carbon RR at Wadesville. The tunnel was erased by strip mining after WWII. -- Chris Hoess ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:06:46 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels --part1_19c.9dbb4e4.2ace0b66_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/03/2002 10:09:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > On the main line of the Allegheny Division, tunnels at Brady's Bend > and two other places (names escape me at the moment) which avoided > loops in the Allegheny River. The RR originally followed around the > loops, the tunnels were a later improvement. > > > One of them is the Kennerdale Tunnel. I don't remember the name of the other. Rich Orr --part1_19c.9dbb4e4.2ace0b66_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/03/2002 10:09:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes:


On the main line of the Allegheny Division, tunnels at Brady's Bend
and two other places (names escape me at the moment) which avoided
loops in the Allegheny River. The RR originally followed around the
loops, the tunnels were a later improvement.




One of them is the Kennerdale Tunnel.  I don't remember the name of the other.

Rich Orr --part1_19c.9dbb4e4.2ace0b66_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] tunnels Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 21:13:27 +0000 So now that we have established there were in fact many should I assume that the vast bulk of them were stone lined? The lines east tunnels in Philadelphia and under the New York rivers were concrete lined I am pretty sure. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 17:24:01 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels Greetings to Rich, Jerry and the List: They were East Brady (2462 feet), Wood Hill (2733 feet) and Kennerdell (3513 feet). FWIW, PRR considered all 3 to be "artificial." Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:17:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > One of them is the Kennerdale Tunnel. I don't remember the name of the > other. Actually, I think 3: Kennerdell, Rockland and the one by East Brady. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 17:29:19 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels ndbprr@att.net wrote: > So now that we have established there were in fact many >should I assume that the vast bulk of them were stone lined? depends on the locality. In bad, or average ground, might be brick, or stone. In Hard Rock, might be no liner. > The lines east tunnels in Philadelphia Dunno. > and under the New York rivers were concrete lined Segmented iron rings, caulked, then concrete lined, IIR. best dwp ...the net of a million lies... Vernor Vinge There are Many Web Sites which Say Many Things. -me ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:38:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels From: jeffrey d thomas The southernmost tunnel on the Marietta branch was at Ava, Ohio. I was cut through shale and sandstone and was not lined. Several cave-ins ocurred that I can remember, with the RR being shut down a few days each time. Jeff Thomas Denton, Tx. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:48:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" This may have been mentioned by a name I don't recognize. And I'm not even sure it is PRR. As you approach Oil City from Titusville, following Oil Creek, there is a sheer rock wall on your right. Just before the road makes a sharp right turn there is a tunnel portal into the rock wall. I have looked and cannot find the other end. I suspect the road was a former road bed. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- >From: Jerry Britton >To: , PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels >Date: Thu, 03 Oct, 2002, 8:07 > > On 10/3/02 8:50 AM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > >> I was thinking about tunnels and can only come up with five locations on the >> PRR: >> 1. the river tunnels into NYC >> 2. Baltimore >> 3. Spruce Creek >> 4. Tunnel Hill >> 5. Port Road > > At the west end of the Rockville Bridge there are several underpasses that I > think really should be termed "tunnels". > > I am not referring to the flyover of the passenger mains over the one set of > Enola leads (which has a bridge structure), but rather the Enola leads > closer to the river that go under the freight mains. Their construction does > not include a bridge, but rather tunnel portals and tunnel linings, with > earth above and around them. I've walked through two of them. They are > tunnels. > > A technicality! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: [PRR] railroad stuff for sale Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:17:11 -0400 Friends: I am slimming out my excess railroad stuff. I am having an e-bay sale on books and trains right now. E-mail me if you want the descriptions and e-bay URLs. ( One is a duplicate copy of the PRR Centennial book. That hasn't appeared on B&N.com or Amazon.com for some time.) Lew Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Septic and Energy Systems. Advocating sustainable composting toilets and gray water systems. Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:47:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels --part1_10.26187755.2ace2302_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/03/2002 6:17:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, harperd@tamug.tamu.edu writes: > As you approach Oil City from Titusville, following Oil Creek, there is a > sheer rock wall on your right. Just before the road makes a sharp right > turn there is a tunnel portal into the rock wall. I have looked and cannot > find the other end. I suspect the road was a former road bed. > > > This is not PRR trackage. It was either NYC or Erie. I don't recall at the moment and my materials are packed away. Rich Orr --part1_10.26187755.2ace2302_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/03/2002 6:17:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, harperd@tamug.tamu.edu writes:


As you approach Oil City from Titusville, following Oil Creek, there is a
sheer rock wall on your right.  Just before the road makes a sharp right
turn there is a tunnel portal into the rock wall.  I have looked and cannot
find the other end.  I suspect the road was a former road bed.




This is not PRR trackage.  It was either NYC or Erie.  I don't recall at the moment and my materials are packed away.

Rich Orr --part1_10.26187755.2ace2302_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 18:47:37 -0400 From: JerrySmed@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels How about the short ex-Camden & Amboy tunnel in Bordentown NJ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Duane C. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:46:56 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C26B15.A119C0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The oldest railroad tunnel in the United States is the Staple Bend = tunnel near Mineral Point in Cambria County, Pennsylvania. It was built = for the Old Portage Railroad. It was recently restored by the National = Park Service and now can be hiked through. There is another PRR tunnel that I have not seen anyone mention. In = Cambria County, Pennsylvania, the PRR had a tunnel on the Susquehanna = branch between Spangler and Bradley Junction. The track through it has = been removed. If you travel on route 219 south of Carrolltown you pass = over this tunnel. Duane Miller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: STEVEGG1@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:03 PM Subject: [PRR] tunnels The Howard Tunnel on the Northern Central south of York. In fact, = would this qualify as the oldest RR tunnel in the US?=20 Steve Panopoulos=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C26B15.A119C0E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The oldest railroad tunnel in the = United States is=20 the Staple Bend tunnel near Mineral Point in Cambria County, = Pennsylvania. =20 It was built for the Old Portage Railroad.  It was recently = restored by the=20 National Park Service and now can be hiked through.
 
There is another PRR tunnel that I have = not seen=20 anyone mention.  In Cambria County, Pennsylvania, the PRR had a = tunnel on=20 the Susquehanna branch between Spangler and Bradley Junction.  The = track=20 through it has been removed.  If you travel on route 219 south of=20 Carrolltown you pass over this tunnel.
 
Duane Miller
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 STEVEGG1@aol.com=20
Sent: Thursday, October 03, = 2002 1:03=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] tunnels

The Howard Tunnel on the Northern Central south = of York. In=20 fact, would this qualify as the oldest RR tunnel in the US?
Steve=20 Panopoulos ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C26B15.A119C0E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:51:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A In a message dated 9/29/02 4:46:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, billd@gci-net.com writes: << One of the reasons I > picked 255763 was the picture showed the car with > roller bearing trucks; I used Kadee's 70 ton roller > bearing trucks (and 58 couplers). >> Wern't the roller bearing trucks a major factor in what made an H30 an H30a? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:55:50 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg red caboose lodge In a message dated 10/3/02 2:43:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lmatt@alltel.net writes: << They're baaaack! "LANCASTER, Pa., 6:08 p.m. EDT October 2, 2002 - The Department of Environmental Protection shut down the Red Caboose Motel in Paradise Township, Lancaster County for the second time this year." (WGAL news) This is either cupidity or stupidity or both; repeatedly and unnecessarily endangering people's health for profit. >> Either that or an ultra liberal government agency harrassing honest business people - just for the heck of it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:00:11 EDT Subject: [PRR] Oil City In a message dated 10/3/02 5:54:16 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com writes: << In a message dated 10/03/2002 6:17:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, harperd@tamug.tamu.edu writes: > As you approach Oil City from Titusville, following Oil Creek, there is a > sheer rock wall on your right. Just before the road makes a sharp right > turn there is a tunnel portal into the rock wall. I have looked and cannot > find the other end. I suspect the road was a former road bed. >> Oil City was part of the Pennsy's Northern Division when I was based in Buffalo. I remember a trip to Oil City, Titusville and Tionesta and walking by a used car dealer who had two Cord automobiles, one white and the other red, parked on his lot and for sale at a price that, as I recall, was outrageous. I often think of those cars. There was a place for sandwiches called Isalys. Does it still exist? But, there was a yard in Oil City that I recall as being very large and on a piece of flat ground in a bowl-like valley. It was very large and I've wonder ed what happened to that property as the Pennsy disappeared. I remember the ATM spending a couple of hours teaching me to get on and off moving locomotives. Note, that even on the pre-PC days, we'd tear up track whenever we abandoned train operations because we could sell the steel as scrap and the property taxes (local, county and state) were lower without track than with. Is the Oil City yard still there? What happened to the city after bankruptcy? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:38:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Duane C. Miller wrote: > The oldest railroad tunnel in the United States is the Staple Bend tunnel near Mineral Point in Cambria County, Pennsylvania. It was built for the Old Portage Railroad. It was recently restored by the National Park Service and now can be hiked through. > > There is another PRR tunnel that I have not seen anyone mention. In > Cambria County, Pennsylvania, the PRR had a tunnel on the Susquehanna > branch between Spangler and Bradley Junction. The track through it has > been removed. If you travel on route 219 south of Carrolltown you pass > over this tunnel. I think Dan mentioned it. You can sort of get a look at one end of it from a road which intersects 219. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:40:24 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 Decal Question --part1_f2.22d4ce54.2ace3d78_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about a custom decal sheet containing builders plates for all of the loco manufacturers? Many be a fund raising project for one of the tech. & hist. society chapters? After all, the Pennys had a good selection of all of the loco brands and modelers outside of the SPF circle would be interested. Evan Leisey --part1_f2.22d4ce54.2ace3d78_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about a custom decal sheet containing builders plates for all of the loco manufacturers?   Many be a fund raising project for one of the tech. & hist. society chapters?  After all,  the Pennys had a good selection of all of the loco brands and modelers outside of the SPF circle would be interested.

Evan Leisey --part1_f2.22d4ce54.2ace3d78_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:41:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg red caboose lodge On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 VVA249@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/3/02 2:43:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lmatt@alltel.net > writes: > > << They're baaaack! > > "LANCASTER, Pa., 6:08 p.m. EDT October 2, 2002 - The Department of > Environmental Protection shut down the Red Caboose Motel in Paradise > Township, Lancaster County for the second time this year." (WGAL news) > > This is either cupidity or stupidity or both; repeatedly and unnecessarily > endangering people's health for profit. >> > > Either that or an ultra liberal government agency harrassing honest business > people - just for the heck of it. Political talk is presumably way off topic for this list. I will however point out that the leadership of DEP was appointed by the current Republican administration in PA, so if you're looking for a conspiracy, looking at the liberals will probably result in them looking back at you. -D -centrist ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 18:04:50 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels From: "Douglas Nelson" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3116513090_56712_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although never used by the PRR, Staple Bend Tunnel was PRR property after they acquired the assets of the Main Line Canal and Allegheny Portage Railway. Doug Nelson --MS_Mac_OE_3116513090_56712_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] tunnels
Although never used by the PRR, Staple Bend Tunnel was PRR prop= erty after they acquired the assets of the Main Line Canal and Allegheny Por= tage Railway.

Doug Nelson
--MS_Mac_OE_3116513090_56712_MIME_Part-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:23:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg red caboose lodge --part1_71.26ae5e28.2ace4797_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/3/02 5:13:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, VVA249@aol.com writes: > Either that or an ultra liberal government agency harrassing honest business > > people - just for the heck of it. > > I don't believe thats the case. The Red Caboose has never been the same since the new owners took over back in the early to mid nineties. Jon S. --part1_71.26ae5e28.2ace4797_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/3/02 5:13:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, VVA249@aol.com writes:


Either that or an ultra liberal government agency harrassing honest business
people - just for the heck of it.



I don't believe thats the case. The Red Caboose has never been the same since the new owners took over back in the early to mid nineties. 

Jon S. --part1_71.26ae5e28.2ace4797_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:34:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg red caboose lodge What is the significance of the Red Caboose Lodge? Can some one provide some context? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:53:18 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] tunnels --- SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/03/2002 10:09:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > > > On the main line of the Allegheny Division, tunnels at Brady's > Bend > > and two other places (names escape me at the moment) which > avoided > > loops in the Allegheny River. The RR originally followed around > the > > loops, the tunnels were a later improvement. > > > > One of them is the Kennerdale Tunnel. I don't remember the name of > the > other. And, while thinking of the Allegheny Division's Low Grade Branch, I forgot the tunnel at Brookville. That makes 3 o