From: "SM" Subject: [PRR] re:catenary Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:40:28 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C251AC.5ED5F460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > Hello all... >=20 > In the Maryland area there was catenary in Bay View > yard,Orangeville engine house and the A,B&F tracks,and sleeper > yard tracks at Penn station in Baltimore and about a mile of catenary=20 > on the old Northern Central line north of B&P jct. > This last bit of catenary i think was > for the passenger car storage and helper tracks near Mt Vernon yard. >=20 > Some other places i can think of were Wilmington shops,West yard, > The Delaware Park race track tracks, The Princeton line and > part of Enola yard. >=20 Til Later H.Mummert ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C251AC.5ED5F460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> =
>   Hello=20 all...
>
>   In the Maryland area there was = catenary in=20 Bay View
> yard,Orangeville engine house and the A,B&F = tracks,and=20 sleeper
> yard tracks at Penn station in Baltimore and about a = mile of=20 catenary
> on the old Northern Central line north of B&P=20 jct.
>  This last bit of catenary i think was
> for the = passenger car storage and helper tracks near Mt Vernon yard.
> =
>=20 Some other places i can think of were Wilmington shops,West = yard,
> The=20 Delaware Park race track tracks, The Princeton line and
> part of = Enola=20 yard.
>
 
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;     =20 Til Later
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;     =20 H.Mummert
------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C251AC.5ED5F460-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 08:22:57 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: Wilmington-area B6sa (was [PRR] DelMarVa B6sb?) As a resident of the VA section of Delmarva, I can safely say that Wilmington is map-wise technically Delmarva but more like Philly (my wife grew up there and I visited many times). True Delmarva starts where the land gets flat and peaceful in "slower Delaware"... probably somewhere well below the Christianna River bridge being mentioned elsewhere. Jim McDaniel, truly in Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 17:01:27 -0400 From: Rail Classics Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR Focal Orange color for N-8's Hello All: We at Rail Classics are in the final stage with our "HO" Scale Brass N-8 Cabin Cars for PRR, PC, Conrail and ICG. We would like your opinion on what available color, Floquil etc, is acceptable for PRR Focal Orange for our N-8 project, please advise. Thank you for your input, EDDY at RAIL CLASSICS www.railclassics.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR Focal Orange color for N-8's Eddie, In the past when I kitbashed many of those Tyco N8's and later when I built and painted the then not yet released Bowser version of the Focal Orange N5c's (I think theirs is to light anyway) I used Scalecoat Reefer Orange with a just a bit of Caboose Red added to achieve the color I was after. Straight Reefer orange just didn't do it for me. It looked like a faded focal orange. Not sure if there is a Drift Card available from the PRRT&HS for the Focal Orange color .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:37:13 -0700 (PDT) From: andy mulhollen Subject: [PRR] Railfest 2002 !!! Oct 5th and 6th (Sat and Sunday) Greetings to the List. I am pleased to give you the official info on Railfest 2002. Sorry it is so late coming out. It has been a long and difficult summer here in Altoona, but we are hanging in there. I think you will be pleased with the line up of events in the Yard and the Excursion Schedule. The yard will play host to live steam in the form of 1.5 inch to the foot scale locomotives. They will all be Pennsy locos. So far we have confirmed an I1s, M1b, K4sa, B6 and a G5. These will be under steam and giving rides, for a $2 fee, on a large oval of just under 1000 feet of track. There will also be several other Pennsy Scale locos on static display inside building B. We will have some Railroadinia vendors set up inside Building B as well for the first time. We will also be selling some K4 scrap. Flex stay bolt caps and old rivets and such. Great Stuff for your Train Room!! Planning an Ebay auction for the Stack of the K4 to end over Railfest Weekend. May even sell the inner sheet of the Backhead if someone offers us enough for it. In the yard will be a variety of vendors of RR related items. There will be a Chicken BBQ on Saturday. If you purchase a Railfest ticket which is only $8 this year, you will get a free chicken dinner. This is only on Saturday. EXCURSIONS (Pulled by our Favorite E8's again this year) will include some long distance excursions as well as the traditional HSC excursions. Coach (amtrak) and Private Varnish (Kittchi Gammi, Dover Harbor and Bennett Levin's new Lounge car) are available for all excursions. Excursion Schedule HARRISBURG TO ALTOONA with return on Sat evening via motor coach or return on the excursion train on Sunday evening at 4:50pm. (you must provide your own overnight accomodations in Altoona if you plan to return on the excursion train on sunday) Departs Harrisburg station Sat at 7:15 am Arr Altoona 9:50 am. Includes Railfest admission and a Chicken BBQ dinner in the yard, and the first trip around the HSC. Private Varnish $200 Coach $100 HSC EXCURSIONS (Both Sat and Sunday Same times apply) Departs Altoona Station 10:30 am 12:50pm 3:20pm Private Varnish $50 (includes Railfest Adm and Chicken BBQ ) Coach $16 (excursion only) Combo Coach $22 (Excursion , Railfest Adm. and Chicken BBQ ) ALTOONA TO PITTSBURGH ROUNDTRIP Includes overnight accomidations in Pittsburgh Departs Altoona Sat at 5:00pm Arr Pittsburgh Station 8:00pm. Good chance of some Rare mileage around Pittsburgh. Departs Pittsburgh Sunday at 7:00 am arr in Altoona 9:35am Private Varnish $275 (includes Railfest adm and chicken BBQ ) Coach $175 (includes Railfest adm and Chicken BBQ ) PITTSBURGH TO ALTOONA ONLY (Railfest Adm included NO BBQ and must provide your own transportation home. Could catch Amtrak back that evening though at your own expense) This trip does not appear in the Flyer we sent out!! Coach $100 Private Varnish $200 (could upgrade at last minute only if seats would be empty. Round trip patrons get first chance at seats) DINNER TRAIN (Fundraiser) Altoona to Pittsburgh Pennsy style meal served on Bennett Levins newly restored Lounge car. Buffet Style. Includes Overnight accomodations in Pittsburgh Continental Breakfast on board in AM on return trip. Dr James Porterfield will be onboard discussing his book Dining by Rail. Autographed copies for all riders included. Departs Altoona Sat at 5:00pm Arr in Pittsburgh 8:00pm Departs Pittsburgh Sunday at 7:00 am Arr Altoona 9:35am Fare-$500 Only 20 tickets available. Several already sold. ROUND TRIPPER Harrisburg-Altoona-Pittsburgh-Altoona-Harrisburgh Departs Harris Sat at 7:15am arr Altoona 9:50am First trip around HSC included. Railfest Adm and Chicken BBQ included. Back on the Train at 5:00 pm for departure to Pittsburgh. Arr Pittsburgh 8:00pm Overnight accomodations in Pittsburgh provided, Departs Pittsburgh Sunday 7:00am Arr Altoona 9:35 am Departs Altoona for Harrisburg at 4:50pm arr Harrisburg at 7:30 pm. Private Varnish $350 Coach $250 Please contact the Museum for more details if needed and to order tickets. Hope to see many of you in Altoona for Railfest. We really need the support to make this another Great Railfest !!! Dr Andy Mulhollen Secretary Board of Directors Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 00:01:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR Focal Orange color for N-8's There is just one match ... TESTORS INTERNATIONAL ORANGE in the ¼ oz. bottles. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: RE: [PRR] Wilmington Area (was re: Catenary Structures) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 00:26:27 -0400 The shellpot movable bridge is a project NS has decided to do. The branch crosses an old T frame movable bridge. Rehab was required for NS to serve the DelMarVa Penninsula. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Derrick J Brashear Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 12:26 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Wilmington Area (was re: Catenary Structures) On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, A Samostie wrote: > > Dear Derrick, > > That plan to rehab the Shellpot Branch sounds familiar, yes. But, I http://communities.prodigy.net/trains/cnsnews.htm http://www.bmwe.org/NW/2002/05MAY/86.htm http://www.construction.com/NewsCenter/Headlines/ENR/20020604a.jsp so, yeah, it's real. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: RE: Wilmington-area B6sa (was [PRR] DelMarVa B6sb?) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 00:35:23 -0400 That "flat peaceful slower Delaware" in a few years will be a figment of your imagination once the Route 13 bypass is completed! Greg V -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of James L. McDaniel Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 8:23 AM To: Dan Cupper Cc: VVA249@aol.com; mittner@webtv.net; aurora7@juno.com; billd@gci-net.com; ndbprr@att.net; Prr-Talk@dsop.com; cadwelml@bp.com Subject: Re: Wilmington-area B6sa (was [PRR] DelMarVa B6sb?) As a resident of the VA section of Delmarva, I can safely say that Wilmington is map-wise technically Delmarva but more like Philly (my wife grew up there and I visited many times). True Delmarva starts where the land gets flat and peaceful in "slower Delaware"... probably somewhere well below the Christianna River bridge being mentioned elsewhere. Jim McDaniel, truly in Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:21:36 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Photos of New Key Imports N Scale J1's From: Jerry Britton If anyone cares to see photos of the new Key Imports J1's in N scale, take a peek at... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/key_n_j1.ws4d ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:35:20 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Branchline X43c CK I just bought a Branchline X43b (CK). The box claims some had black roofs. Is this true? I can find no other reference to black roofed PRR cars. The roof came with incomplete coloring such that it is part black and part freight car red. If black is appropriate, I will just paint the roof black. But if it should (as I suspect) be FC red, I will have to write to BL for a replacement so that the color matches the rest of the car :-( Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== prr6380 wrote: > The last of the four 40' boxcars expected from Branchline arrived > Friday. These are the cars with 8' Youngstown doors and Circle > Keystones. The box labels were OK. > > I found the article addressing the underframe mods. It's at > (www.steamfreightcars.com) in an article by Ed Hawkins. The mod > isn't difficult, but it would require tabs at the bottom of the car > sides to be made longer, no fun on a prepainted and lettered car. > > Walt Stafa ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Motors Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 13:59:45 +0000 It is my understanding that the motors on GG1's and MP54's were identical. Is that true? Were they kept separate in any way during rebuilding or was it first come first served when replacing motors? Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:35:49 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports -- Disconcerting News From: Jerry Britton Over the weekend BLI quietly updated their web site... NYC J1e remains slated for October shipment. N&W Class A has been bumped to "Late Spring 2003". PRR M1a and M1b has been bumped to "Summer 2003". That's a bump of at least six months. Also disconcerting is that the sister company, Oriental Limited, has allowed their domain name to expire and they now have no web site. They also have not returned dealer contacts regarding their previously announced brass products. An n scale PRR electric was due this past June. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rick Siller" Subject: [PRR] [PRR-Modeling] Branchline X43b CK Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:39:26 -0400 I have a question into the Branchline Tech department to find out if they intended to partially paint the roof. I will pass on any response I receive. Rick Andy Miller wrote: > I just bought a Branchline X43b (CK). The box claims some had black roofs. Is this true? I can find no > other reference to black roofed PRR cars. The roof came with incomplete coloring such that it is part > black and part freight car red. If black is appropriate, I will just paint the roof black. But if it > should (as I suspect) be FC red, I will have to write to BL for a replacement so that the color matches > the rest of the car :-( ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:00:53 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Branchline X43c Sounds like I can paint my BL roof freight car red and not worry too much about matching the side since it would have been painted FCR as an after market upgrade and would have worn down with time with black underneath. Brian Butcher suggested that it might be an attempt by BL to simulate a black roof with red overspray from the side. I suspect not since no one else has commented on buying a car kit like that, and the two tone effect is "marbleized" as if the pigments were never completely mixed. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > Andy, > > This is a "depends" question. The cars appear to have been delivered with the asphaltum roof. The painting instructions for shopping and repainting called for the roof to be painted with freight car color over the asphaltum. So a brand new car may have the "black" asphalutm roof while one which has been through the shop would most probably be freight car color. I have been spraying the roof lightly with Modelflex dark oxide and letting some of the black show thorugh as if the "red" color was wearing away. > > Rich Orr -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports -- Disconcerting News Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 15:02:35 +0000 Well, all you can hope for is that their plans may have been more ambitious than what thier website was indicating. Perhaps these engines will come out but over a longer time period. In addition, there is P2K - Heritage, Rivarossi, Roco, and Trix / Marklin that have or will be coming out with quality steam hopelful PRR. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana >From: Jerry Britton >To: PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports -- Disconcerting News >Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:35:49 -0400 > >Over the weekend BLI quietly updated their web site... > >NYC J1e remains slated for October shipment. > >N&W Class A has been bumped to "Late Spring 2003". > >PRR M1a and M1b has been bumped to "Summer 2003". That's a bump of at least >six months. > >Also disconcerting is that the sister company, Oriental Limited, has >allowed >their domain name to expire and they now have no web site. They also have >not returned dealer contacts regarding their previously announced brass >products. An n scale PRR electric was due this past June. >----------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com >Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] Branchline X43c CK Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:12:31 -0400 Mine's the same way. It looks like they were going for the effect of a black rook with overspray from the sides. It's an interesting look but I don't know if it's correct... I also got an ERIE car and the roof is solid black on it... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 9:35 AM > To: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] Branchline X43c CK > > > I just bought a Branchline X43b (CK). The box claims some had > black roofs. Is this true? I can find no > other reference to black roofed PRR cars. The roof came with > incomplete coloring such that it is part > black and part freight car red. If black is appropriate, I will > just paint the roof black. But if it > should (as I suspect) be FC red, I will have to write to BL for > a replacement so that the color matches > the rest of the car :-( > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > ================================================== > prr6380 wrote: > > > The last of the four 40' boxcars expected from Branchline arrived > > Friday. These are the cars with 8' Youngstown doors and Circle > > Keystones. The box labels were OK. > > > > I found the article addressing the underframe mods. It's at > > (www.steamfreightcars.com) in an article by Ed Hawkins. The mod > > isn't difficult, but it would require tabs at the bottom of the car > > sides to be made longer, no fun on a prepainted and lettered car. > > > > Walt Stafa > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/9MtolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > Sharing and enjoying our memories and materials and methods to > better reproduce the PRR in miniature ! > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > PRR-Modeling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rick Siller" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] Branchline X43c CK Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:43:05 -0400 Here is a great response I received from Branchline Trains on their reason to simulate a black roof with red overspray from the side. It's nice to see the research they did for the car. Rick ------- According to the original Greenville painting specs for class X43 cars as delivered (and also FWIW the X44 50 footers) the "Underframe, brake gear and roof to be coated with asphaltum" (back car cement). "Sides and ends to recive two coats PRR spec freight car red", "Roof not painted". Based on similar paint specs and photographic evidence on other cars from the period we read this to say that the roofs and frames were black with whatever overspray came up from the sides. If you have a a copy of Morning Sun's "NY Harbor RR's in Color" check out the bottom pciture on the back cover to see what I mean. It shows either an X29G or X46 40' boxcar (its a down-on aerial shot, so the sides are hard to see), what I belive is an X53 50' plug door and an X31 40' boxcar, all with black roofs with ragged red edges. This was a very common paint treatment with many car builders at the time and is the way that our circle keystone X43's are being delivered. We have duplicated the overspray on the roof and the underside of the roofwalk as it would have been on the real cars. FWIW, PRR built cars seem to have red roofs, and repainted cars show red roofs up until the mid to late 1950's. After that time unpainted asphaltum-colored (we'll call it black!) roofs became more common. Certainly many cars built and delivered in the late plain keystone scheme of the '60's had this treatment if the roofs were painted at all. Check out pg53 of the PRR Color Guide - Vol 2 from Morning Sun of you have it handy. Hope this answers your question. Bill Schneider Branchline Trains ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] Branchline X43c CK Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:01:16 -0700 Hi all; Although I certainly cannot say without a doubt that the X43 roof was "black" (black as in asphaltum, not black paint), there is a good piece of evidence that they probably were, but ONLY as-built from the factory in the original paint. >From "Instructions for Painting Freight Equipment Cars", issued January 13, 1953 (should be close enough) "In the case of a new galvanized roof the underside of the roof is not painted, but the top side shall be painted with two coats of Asphaltum Compound (Car Cement), Acct. 47, Ref. 556." It gets better: "After the new galvanized roof sheets have been painted with the car cement, any future painting of them shall be done with a specified freight car paint." So, if you want a car that appears, in some probability like it did in real life, you may want to consider having a blackish look on the roof of your non-repainted CK cars, but freight car color on all others (repaints, SK, and PK cars). Unless you are modeling the early fifties, Rich probably also hit the nail on the head. The repaints tended to lose the paint off the roof fairly quickly, exposing the asphaltum. That is probably why you see so many dark roofs on otherwise fc colored cars. Branchline did the right thing.... Elden ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 14:10:36 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Branchline X43c CK Well, my hats off to BL! However it sure would be nice if they put a note in the box or on their box label, telling what they did and why so that I (and I presume others) would not just think it was a pigment failure. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== PRR Historian wrote: > Here is a great response I received from Branchline Trains on their reason to simulate a black roof with red overspray from the side. It's nice to see the research they did for the car. > > Rick > ------- > According to the original Greenville painting specs for class X43 cars as delivered (and also FWIW the X44 50 footers) the "Underframe, brake gear and roof to be coated with asphaltum" (back car cement). "Sides and ends to receive two coats PRR spec freight car red", "Roof not painted". > > Based on similar paint specs and photographic evidence on other cars from the period we read this to say that the roofs and frames were black with whatever overspray came up from the sides. If you have a copy of Morning Sun's "NY Harbor RR's in Color" check out the bottom picture on the back cover to see what I mean. It shows either an X29G or X46 40' boxcar (its a down-on aerial shot, so the sides are hard to see), what I believe is an X53 50' plug door and an X31 40' boxcar, all with black roofs with ragged red edges. This was a very common paint treatment with many car builders at > the time and is the way that our circle keystone X43's are being delivered. We have duplicated the overspray on the roof and the underside of the roofwalk as it would have been on the real cars. FWIW, PRR built cars seem to have red roofs, and repainted cars show red roofs up until the mid to late 1950's. After that time unpainted asphaltum-colored (we'll call it black!) roofs became more common. Certainly many cars built and delivered in the late plain keystone scheme of the '60's had this treatment if the roofs were painted at all. Check out pg53 of the PRR Color Guide - Vol 2 from Morning Sun of you have it handy. > > Hope this answers your question. > Bill Schneider > Branchline Trains > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 14:13:39 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] Branchline X43c CK Rob, AFAIK (and remember I'm a PRR fan) the Erie did paint many (all?) of their roofs black. So did the C&O and the NKP. It was probably a Van Swerlingen thing. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Mine's the same way. It looks like they were going for the effect of > a black rook with overspray from the sides. > It's an interesting look but I don't know if it's correct... > I also got an ERIE car and the roof is solid black on it... > > Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 9:35 AM > > To: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk > > Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] Branchline X43c CK > > > > > > I just bought a Branchline X43b (CK). The box claims some had > > black roofs. Is this true? I can find no > > other reference to black roofed PRR cars. The roof came with > > incomplete coloring such that it is part > > black and part freight car red. If black is appropriate, I will > > just paint the roof black. But if it > > should (as I suspect) be FC red, I will have to write to BL for > > a replacement so that the color matches > > the rest of the car :-( > > > > Regards, > > > > Andy Miller > > asmiller@mitre.org > > > > ================================================== > > prr6380 wrote: > > > > > The last of the four 40' boxcars expected from Branchline arrived > > > Friday. These are the cars with 8' Youngstown doors and Circle > > > Keystones. The box labels were OK. > > > > > > I found the article addressing the underframe mods. It's at > > > (www.steamfreightcars.com) in an article by Ed Hawkins. The mod > > > isn't difficult, but it would require tabs at the bottom of the car > > > sides to be made longer, no fun on a prepainted and lettered car. > > > > > > Walt Stafa ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of New Key Imports N Scale J1's Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:04:19 -0400 Very nice! Too pretty to be used as helpers. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: ; PRR-Talk LIST Cc: Brian Butcher Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 9:21 AM Subject: [PRR] Photos of New Key Imports N Scale J1's > If anyone cares to see photos of the new Key Imports J1's in N scale, take a > peek at... > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/key_n_j1.ws4d > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:30:20 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of New Key Imports N Scale J1's Jerry sez: >> If anyone cares to see photos of the new Key Imports J1's in N scale, take >a >> peek at... >> >> http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/key_n_j1.ws4d then Larry responds: >Very nice! Too pretty to be used as helpers. I agree - those babies need some SERIOUS weathering!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling & PRR-Talk] Branchline X43s CK Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:50:00 -0500 It's about time manufacturers listened to us. However, for all those non-PRR fans/modelers who purchase a PRR car for use on their NON-PRR railroads; they are going to be confused. Most of the modelers out there wouldn't know what "asphaltum" or "back car cement" or even "anything not paint" is! They will think it's black, or a "pigment failure" and think just what was originally questioned - did BL make a mistake. We must really appreciate what they've (BL) done. Buy more BL X43s, as many as you can afford, etc. IMHO Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist! PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! > Well, my hats off to BL! However it sure would be nice if they put a note in the box or on their box label, telling what they did and why so that I (and I presume others) would not just think it was a pigment failure.> Andy Miller > Here is a great response I received from Branchline Trains on their reason to simulate a black roof with red overspray from the side. It's nice to see the research they did for the car.> Rick > > According to the original Greenville painting specs for class X43 cars as delivered (and also FWIW the X44 50 footers) the "Underframe, brake gear and roof to be coated with asphaltum" (back car cement). "Sides and ends to receive two coats PRR spec freight car red", "Roof not painted".> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 19:54:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of New Key Imports N Scale J1's From: "Jerry @ Pennsyrr" on 9/3/02 5:30 PM, Bruce F. Smith at smithbf@mail.auburn.edu wrote: > Jerry sez: >>> If anyone cares to see photos of the new Key Imports J1's in N scale, take >> a >>> peek at... >>> >>> http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/key_n_j1.ws4d > > then Larry responds: >> Very nice! Too pretty to be used as helpers. > > I agree - those babies need some SERIOUS weathering!! > Oh, sure, at that price the first thing on my mind is dipping them in a vat of grime!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Regional Superintendent, PRR Eastern Region Modeling the PRR in September 1954 http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of New Key Imports N Scale J1's Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 07:16:56 -0400 Jerry: Isn't that what the prototype road did before sending them into the world? Kind of an image protector. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry @ Pennsyrr To: Bruce F. Smith ; Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of New Key Imports N Scale J1's > on 9/3/02 5:30 PM, Bruce F. Smith at smithbf@mail.auburn.edu wrote: > > > Jerry sez: > >>> If anyone cares to see photos of the new Key Imports J1's in N scale, take > >> a > >>> peek at... > >>> > >>> http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/key_n_j1.ws4d > > > > then Larry responds: > >> Very nice! Too pretty to be used as helpers. > > > > I agree - those babies need some SERIOUS weathering!! > > > Oh, sure, at that price the first thing on my mind is dipping them in a vat > of grime!!! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Regional Superintendent, PRR Eastern Region > Modeling the PRR in September 1954 > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 07:33:40 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RE: Broadway Limited Imports news Jerry and Listers, I for one am not worried. How many times in recent months have we seen P2K announce a locomotive "By (pick a month)" and the loco is still not in production three months later. Take a look at the recent 0-6-0 and the 0-8-0. They constantly do this. Maybe I'm being optomistic but I think they are just experiencing start-up delays. I'll keep my fingers crossed. I hope they succeed just to knock the arrogance out of Soundtraxx, Auto-chuff indeed !! Regards, Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com X-SpamDetect: low: Possible Junk Mail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] HO GG-1s Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 13:11:13 +0000 There are at least six HO suppliers out there. 1. AHM large flanges only for code 100 single motor 2. IHC RP25 flanges? dual motor seesm to be the best of the plastic to me. Made in Slovinia. 3. Pemco. Cheap mechanism but they do hold up. No longer in production 4. Rivarossi - was AHM is that the IHC supplier? 5. Mehano - Who are they and how do their engines run and hold up under the magnifying glass for detail? 6. ROCO announced a G according to MR. Any thoughts on where it will fit in the ranking? Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Broadway Limited Imports news Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 08:40:40 -0500 As far as I can see Proto has delivered on nearly all their promised releases. The engines may arrive later than predicted, but they ARE produced. THis is true of both the 0-6-0 and 0-8-0. On the other hand, there are many manufacturers who advertise quite extensively in the model magazines, but NEVER produce. There is some evidence that Broadway is also in this category. The fact that they have produced at least one model as a preview of "coming attractions" is positive, however. -----Original Message----- From: Nick Kulp [mailto:caseyj@igateway.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 6:34 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] RE: Broadway Limited Imports news Jerry and Listers, I for one am not worried. How many times in recent months have we seen P2K announce a locomotive "By (pick a month)" and the loco is still not in production three months later. Take a look at the recent 0-6-0 and the 0-8-0. They constantly do this. Maybe I'm being optomistic but I think they are just experiencing start-up delays. I'll keep my fingers crossed. I hope they succeed just to knock the arrogance out of Soundtraxx, Auto-chuff indeed !! Regards, Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com X-SpamDetect: low: Possible Junk Mail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 11:30:30 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Web Cam on the ER Tonight From: Jerry Britton The Eastern region (ER) has a work session this evening. I have installed a web cam. Though watching a work session is somewhat akin to watching grass grow, I want to see how it goes and what needs tweaked so as to have it working properly for op sessions later. That said, if you're bored this evening, stop by the web cam's page and take a look. If you see problems with focus, white balance, etc., please let me know via e-mail. Include the approximate time you were viewing the page, the nature of the problem, what operating system you are using (e.g. Windows 95, Macintosh, etc.), and what web client you are using (e.g. AOL or Explorer). The URL for the cam is http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/webcam/index.ws4d It should be updating from approximately 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. (Eastern). ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:04:28 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of New Key Imports N Scale J1's >on 9/3/02 5:30 PM, Bruce F. Smith at smithbf@mail.auburn.edu wrote: > >> Jerry sez: >>>> If anyone cares to see photos of the new Key Imports J1's in N scale, take >>> a >>>> peek at... >>>> >>>> http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/key_n_j1.ws4d >> >> then Larry responds: >>> Very nice! Too pretty to be used as helpers. >> >> I agree - those babies need some SERIOUS weathering!! >> >Oh, sure, at that price the first thing on my mind is dipping them in a vat >of grime!!! Oh oh...Jerry's become a "collector"...I think its the influence of N-scale Now, I just took a butane torch to an ALCO models P5A...now THAT'S empowering!...hehehehe!!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 11:41:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of New Key Imports N Scale J1's From: Jerry Britton On 9/4/02 10:04 AM, Bruce F. Smith (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > Oh oh...Jerry's become a "collector"...I think its the influence of N-scale > Only the stuff that will never come out in plastic...thus far I have a T1 (#6111, my PRRT&HS member number), an M1a, a J1, and a J1a. > > Now, I just took a butane torch to an ALCO models P5A...now THAT'S > empowering!...hehehehe!!! > You're braver than I am! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Broadway Limited Imports news Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 16:01:38 +0000 Marvin: Your assessment is accurate. Hopeful, BLI will not fall into the "Front Range" syndrome. :P I think that once they produce the NYC Hudson, the reviews will be overall good. That should give them momentum in the following releases. Ted >From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" >To: "'caseyj@igateway.com'" , PRR-Talk > >Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Broadway Limited Imports news >Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 08:40:40 -0500 > >As far as I can see Proto has delivered on nearly all their promised >releases. The engines may arrive later than predicted, but they ARE >produced. THis is true of both the 0-6-0 and 0-8-0. On the other hand, >there are many manufacturers who advertise quite extensively in the model >magazines, but NEVER produce. There is some evidence that Broadway is also >in this category. The fact that they have produced at least one model as a >preview of "coming attractions" is positive, however. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Nick Kulp [mailto:caseyj@igateway.com] >Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 6:34 AM >To: PRR-Talk >Subject: [PRR] RE: Broadway Limited Imports news > > >Jerry and Listers, > >I for one am not worried. How many times in recent months have we seen P2K >announce >a locomotive "By (pick a month)" and the loco is still not in production >three >months later. Take a look at the recent 0-6-0 and the 0-8-0. They >constantly >do this. Maybe I'm being optomistic but I think they are just experiencing >start-up >delays. I'll keep my fingers crossed. I hope they succeed just to knock the >arrogance out of Soundtraxx, Auto-chuff indeed !! > >Regards, >Nick Kulp >http://www.igateway.com > >X-SpamDetect: low: Possible Junk Mail > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 16:23:29 +0000 It is going to be interesting to see what happens. Personally I don't think the serious modeler category is sufficiently large to pull this off. I would bet that they could have been done in brass for not much more than plastic (cost not selling price). I don't think the guy getting into the hobby through the average modeler is going to fork over the money for these things. We will all drool over them but they are just to cutting edge and pricey. How many do they have to sell of each engine to get the pricing under brass when you consider the die and assembly costs? I sure don't know but I would guess a factor of 10x minimum. If they come up short in sales that will be the end of the idea. I don't think the market will buy into this but I don't have any demographics. It just sounds like a big gamble at this time. If they are working on all the engine dies they have announced they have between $500k and $million in dies alone. This isn't a fast return business. How long can they stand the negative cash flow? If everybody on PRR-Talk bought 4 M1's (over $1000 at current available published prices) they might sell 800 at best (are there 200 of us?) to the most ardent group and I sure don't intend to buy four of them if and when I see one. We'll see. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 12:31:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI From: Jerry Britton On 9/4/02 12:23 PM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > If everybody on PRR-Talk bought 4 M1's (over > $1000 at current available published prices) they might > sell 800 at best (are there 200 of us?) PRR-talk currently has over 600 subscribers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:46:09 +0100 Norm, My feeling is that the Roco version will be far better than any other version, they did the P2K 2-8-8-2 AHM and Rivarossi I believe are the same people. Pemco, IHC and Mehano are all the same model, it was improved in the mid 80's If you want I can dig out the Continental Moddler review of it Patrick Grace www.prr.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 2:11 PM Subject: [PRR] HO GG-1s > There are at least six HO suppliers out there. > 1. AHM large flanges only for code 100 single motor > 2. IHC RP25 flanges? dual motor seesm to be the best of > the plastic to me. Made in Slovinia. > 3. Pemco. Cheap mechanism but they do hold up. No > longer in production > 4. Rivarossi - was AHM is that the IHC supplier? > 5. Mehano - Who are they and how do their engines run > and hold up under the magnifying glass for detail? > 6. ROCO announced a G according to MR. Any thoughts on > where it will fit in the ranking? > Thanks, Norm Bell > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 13:13:06 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI >How many do they have to >sell of each engine to get the pricing under brass when >you consider the die and assembly costs? I sure don't >know but I would guess a factor of 10x minimum. A fascinating question. Last january, I spoke with one of the head honchos at Walther's...they consider a "run" of 10,000 cars (all paint schemes combined) to be the "break even point". When a car sells 20,000 units, they start to party, as it is a big success. Obviously, the numbers are subtantially lower for locomotives, but still larger than brass runs. BLI has introduced a new "business model" and it will be fascinating to see how it works! >If everybody on PRR-Talk bought 4 M1's (over >$1000 at current available published prices) they might >sell 800 at best (are there 200 of us?) to the most As Jerry has pointed out, we're more than 600 strong, but we still represent a significant MINORITY of PRR modelers...on top of that, harken back to Greg Martin's messages about BLI when it was first announced...they are picking locos that they feel will sell to a wider audience than just one RR...the NYC hudson is a classic "Lionel" loco...the N&W class A has been seen by millions of people, the PRR M1 is the icon of the Middle Division (however, the least "iconic" of the group) and the T1 is well, its the T1!!! I'm least comfortable about the M1 (and the E7s) as part of their "business model"...I would expect more locos like Ross Rowland's ex C&O 614...you know, the type you just have to have, even though you don't model that railroad...I know a bunch of you have reservations for the BLI class A (yeah, PRR did own a chunk of N&W, so you can RATIONALIZE it I suppose...) The bottom line is that Broadway did their research and feels that they can sell the number of units required. They would not have been able to obtain their financing if they had not. So instead of everybody worrying, wondering, and espousing economics for which they do not have the data, I suggest we wait and see. Right now, things look pretty good for BLI...the Hudson is about to release after manufacturing delays, and I would expect that the same delays have figured into the "rescheduling" of the N&W A and the M1s (and the P2K 0-6-0, Berkshire, etc...),that, and they may need some revenue from the NYC locos to pay the bills before they spend too much more... I guess I would suggest that y'all stop pronouncing BLI "dead", since a loco isn't truely "dead" until she's cut up and carted away, and BLI seems a long way from that! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 16:49:59 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s Pat wrote: >Pemco, IHC and Mehano are all the same model, it was improved in the mid >80's > It should also be pointed out that IHC did upgrade the drive mechanism twice in the mid to late 1990's. First, they added dual flywheels to the single motor, then they added dual motors with dual flywheels. This last version was only under the IHC Premier name (but not all IHC Premiers are this version). The last version is quite an impressive puller. The shells are all the same, however. No updates to detail. Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:26:46 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s Jeff writes: >It should also be pointed out that IHC did upgrade the drive mechanism >twice in the mid to late 1990's. First, they added dual flywheels to >the single motor, then they added dual motors with dual flywheels. This >last version was only under the IHC Premier name (but not all IHC >Premiers are this version). The last version is quite an impressive >puller. The shells are all the same, however. No updates to detail. There were a couple of very minor changes including adding coupler cut levers, but the shells were, as Jeff notes, identical. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:35:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s The current Premier IHC G is the best running of the bunch. I've tried them all over the years. I'm hoping the new Roco version will be an improvement over the IHC version. The IHC version sits too high over the frame and it can't be lowered as the motors hit the inside of the shell at each nose and there is nothing there to remove to lower it. Adding the lower half of the ladders helps greatly as does the mu hoeses under the nose doors. One interesting thing about all the versions you mentioned is that all the bodies are identical including the mounting so you can swap bodies from all manufacturers. I'm holding off on any more G purchases until I see the Roco version. --------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 21:32:52 -0400 Subject: [PRR] J1 Test Run From: "Jerry @ Pennsyrr" Near the end of the Eastern Region work session tonight I had to perform test runs on all five tracks of my helix. I ran a Baldwin Shark on four of the tracks but couldn't resist running one of the J's on the fifth. Boy did it run great!!! It ran very smooth and all the running gear looked great. The headlight is a very bright white. Excellent!!! Web cam also worked pretty well. Quite a few people tuned in to watch construction. I got 1/2 turn of track and wiring done, plus another 1/2 turn of subroadbed and roadbed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Regional Superintendent, PRR Eastern Region Modeling the PRR in September 1954 http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 22:12:53 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI --part1_16a.133a1ac1.2aa817a5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/4/02 12:39:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > PRR-talk currently has over 600 subscribers. Great but - not all are modelers & not all are HO scalers --part1_16a.133a1ac1.2aa817a5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/4/02 12:39:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes:


PRR-talk currently has over 600 subscribers.



Great but - not all are modelers & not all are HO scalers



 --part1_16a.133a1ac1.2aa817a5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 22:58:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI In a message dated 9/4/02 9:22:11 PM Central Daylight Time, VVA249@aol.com writes: << Great but - not all are modelers & not all are HO scalers >> OTOH, not all Pennsy fans are on this list and anywhere from 40% to 70% of them are not even on the internet. Of those that are, many are not on a single chat list (horrors!). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 23:10:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 VVA249@aol.com wrote: > > PRR-talk currently has over 600 subscribers. > > > Great but - not all are modelers & not all are HO scalers Indeed. But, he answered the supposition that the list had in total only ~200 subscribers, and drew no such conclusion;-) 600 subscribers certainly gives a higher chance of 200 of those being HO scale modelers, than only 200 total on the list. Still, I think even if all 600 were modelers and wanted to buy 3 locomotives apiece (both numbers and an unnumbered, just to pull some numbers arbitrarily) it would still be not nearly enough sales to justify the unit on its own. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:29:22 +0100 It must be, hopefully they will do some coaches to match with the standard European close coupling system... Patrick Grace From: To: "PGrace" Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s > Thanks. I have one of each (actually I have 18 G's) so > don't need the review. Wonder why Roco would enter with > a G with the market so full of them? Must be a good > seller in spite of the limited prototype usage. Norm > Bell > > Norm, > > > > My feeling is that the Roco version will be far better than any other > > version, > > they did the P2K 2-8-8-2 > > > > AHM and Rivarossi I believe are the same people. > > Pemco, IHC and Mehano are all the same model, it was improved in the mid > > 80's > > > > If you want I can dig out the Continental Moddler review of it > > > > Patrick Grace > > > > www.prr.org.uk > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "PRR-Talk" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 2:11 PM > > Subject: [PRR] HO GG-1s > > > > > > > There are at least six HO suppliers out there. > > > 1. AHM large flanges only for code 100 single motor > > > 2. IHC RP25 flanges? dual motor seesm to be the best of > > > the plastic to me. Made in Slovinia. > > > 3. Pemco. Cheap mechanism but they do hold up. No > > > longer in production > > > 4. Rivarossi - was AHM is that the IHC supplier? > > > 5. Mehano - Who are they and how do their engines run > > > and hold up under the magnifying glass for detail? > > > 6. ROCO announced a G according to MR. Any thoughts on > > > where it will fit in the ranking? > > > Thanks, Norm Bell > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Chicago Chapter meeting Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 14:31:47 +0000 Since there are 600 people reading this I thought I would take one last chance to invite anyone to the first meeting of the Chicago chapter who hasn't read the previous posts. It will be 10/5/02 in Homewood, IL. @1PM. Let anybody you know who might be interested. It would be great if we could have a huge turn out. They can either e mail me or if they don't have e mail let me know and I will give you my home phone number. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 11:08:52 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Pennsylvania Railroad Color Pictorial - Volume Three From: Jerry Britton Four Ways West has announced "Pennsylvania Railroad Color Pictorial - Volume Three" by David Sweetland. Description reads "This book looks at the PRR steam locomotive classes operating during the 1940's and 1950's. Our color photograph trip starts in the "Windy City" of Chicago and moves over the fast Fort Wayne Line. At Pittsburgh, we stop to visit two steam shortlines related to the PRR and then move to the mountain city of Altoona. From Altoona to Harrisburg, the multi-track mainline had a plentiful supply of steam and diesel powered trains. Side trips to Sandusky, Sodus Point and Shamokin give us the opportunity to view large Pennsy steam power hauling coal and ore trains. Our photographic trip finally ends in Camden, N.J., where steam remained in force until 1957 mixed with Baldwin diesels and several oil-electric cars." Due this fall. Hmmm, this book, Withers PRR Diesels Volume 7, Triumph 5... Now if only Hirsimaki would get "Black Gold Black Diamonds 3" out the door by Christmas!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:00:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s Just wondering what all you folks with your fleets of GG-1 motors do for catenary, or do they all sit on the shelf or get pulled around by (shudder) diesels or something? I'd love to recreate my youth, when I had a Lionel GG-1 running under catenary I soldered together from #18 copper bell wire! But how do you create realistic catenary, particularly in HO? I'm more interested in an E-44 or two; and I must say, the photo in the new Model Railroader of the E-33 looks somewhat toylike to my eyes. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:13:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s From: Jerry Britton On 9/6/02 9:00 AM, bobsin@nac.net (bobsin@nac.net) wrote: > Just wondering what all you folks with your fleets of GG-1 motors > do for catenary, or do they all sit on the shelf or get pulled around > by (shudder) diesels or something? I'd love to recreate my youth, > when I had a Lionel GG-1 running under catenary I soldered > together from #18 copper bell wire! But how do you create realistic > catenary, particularly in HO? > Most of the models run off the rails by default and don't even need catenary except for appearance. Some of the models have switches underneath so you can run off of cat if you want to. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] HO GG-1s Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:13:35 -0400 John, Model Memories make catenary poles and wires. While the wires are not as intricate as the prototype it will give a nice representation so that your pantographs have some thing to slide on. It does look much better that the flat European wires. I thought the E-33 looked pretty good considering it was in that bright orange and black New Haven scheme without the lettering. Guess we'll have to wait to see the finished product. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 08:48:06 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s John Asks: >Just wondering what all you folks with your fleets of GG-1 motors >do for catenary, or do they all sit on the shelf or get pulled around >by (shudder) diesels or something? I'd love to recreate my youth, >when I had a Lionel GG-1 running under catenary I soldered >together from #18 copper bell wire! But how do you create realistic >catenary, particularly in HO? Excellent question! There are at least two purveyors of PRR style catenary support, Chuck Freidlein, whom I haven't seen on line lately make a single catenary support post, while Model Memories http://www.info-4u.com/modelmemories/mproduct.htm sell single track poles, and double and quadruple track bridges. They also sell preformed catenary, but it is a pretty long span and you might be happier scratch building. Using MM catenary for my layout would break the bank, so I intend on scratchbuilding the greater part of it. Bob Hundeman published a series of outstanding articles on building catenary in N-scale and MM a few years ago using the Virginian as an example...it was stunning, and if he can do it in N, I can do it in HO. The Virginian Catenary, Mainline Modeler, December 1996 page 58 Virginian Catenary: Tips and techniques for N scale catenary, N Scale, November/December 1996 page 28 Virginian Catenary: A step-by-step on how to construct this catenary N Scale, January/February 1997 page 44 Note that I have absolutely no intention of using the catenary for power...a single contact just isn't enough for reliable operation. Thus, my electric power (at this point a fleet of brass P5As, two O1Cs, two B1s, several GG1s and assorted others) can operate on the layout long before the catenary is built and the track work bugs can be ironed out without bumping the overhead. Other adaptations for operation will include tortoise powered switch machines under the overhead, and electromagnetic uncouplers, to keep hands out of the catenary. Columbia yard was not, and will not be under wire as it was switched with steam and then diseasels, so the yard will use hand throws and manual uncoupling for the most part. Turning electrics in staging is an issue as well. Obviously, one could simply reverse them and change which pan is up, but that involves a lot of handling. Instead, I will either use a "cassette" at the end of the yard, which will be long enough to hold double headed GG1s. The yard tracks will end, without bumbers about 2 feet before the end of the benchwork. The cassette will be lined up with a track, the locos run on, the cassette turned 180 degrees and the locos run off onto another track. Another way to do this would be a "lazy susan" turntable served by 3 or so A/D or "thoroughfare" tracks. Obviously, the cassette or turntable would need catenary as well . >I'm more interested in an E-44 or two; and I must say, the photo in >the new Model Railroader of the E-33 looks somewhat toylike to >my eyes. Lousy picture, lousy paint, pilot model...it did have seperate grabs! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:25:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s Thanks, Bruce, for the Mainline Modeler articles tips; somehow I missed these (I don't subscribe, but buy occasional copies when something seems of interest). I'll have to see if these back issues are available. What was the general technique of construction used by Bob Hundman? I assume the catenary was metal. I have always wondered whether (model) catenary would have to be metal; with DCC and all, no need for sending power through it, as Bruce noted. Maybe some kind of plastic would be more suitable -- might not kink, might be easier to fabricate (with solvent cement) etc. But it was fun 40 years ago to run that Lionel GG-1 under my klutzy homemade catenary, sparks flying -- and two trains on the track at once (one running from the center third rail!). And now I recall the time I was working on the system and somehow my tongue touched the live overhead, well, I can tell you, 18 VAC is enough to light you up pretty well! John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:40:11 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG1s >What was the general technique of construction used by Bob >Hundman? I assume the catenary was metal. I have always >wondered whether (model) catenary would have to be metal; with >DCC and all, no need for sending power through it, as Bruce noted. > Maybe some kind of plastic would be more suitable -- might not >kink, might be easier to fabricate (with solvent cement) etc. Hundeman's technique was to use metal shapes and wire and solder. As I noted, he made it look easy. I bought a few Model Memories kits and frankly, you can buy the metal shapes and cut them very fast for a lot less. Then, make soldering jigs for assembly (as Hundeman did) and you can really move along. Now that I have a grit blaster, prepping them for paint is easy too! I have thought about plastic, but I worry about long term durability with the tension of the catenary....will the posts slowly bend? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: RE: [PRR] HO GG1s Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:41:46 -0400 Definitely get a hold of Bill Kachel's home made book on how to string your own catenary. He wrote about a 16 page pamphlet on the subject. He does an excellent job of explaining how to do "your own" PRR style cat. You will need to make a gig on a 3 foot piece of wood to hold the wires while soldering. Piano wire seems to be the wire of choice. When done, it compares to no other. The poles will need to attention as the 1916 poles taper as they elevate away from the roadbed. Albeit, they are still being used along the mainline from Philly to Paoli and further. One thing I must say, if you are going to run a GG1, do it right, or don't do it at all(place it on a shelf). Greg V -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Bruce F. Smith Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:40 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG1s >What was the general technique of construction used by Bob >Hundman? I assume the catenary was metal. I have always >wondered whether (model) catenary would have to be metal; with >DCC and all, no need for sending power through it, as Bruce noted. > Maybe some kind of plastic would be more suitable -- might not >kink, might be easier to fabricate (with solvent cement) etc. Hundeman's technique was to use metal shapes and wire and solder. As I noted, he made it look easy. I bought a few Model Memories kits and frankly, you can buy the metal shapes and cut them very fast for a lot less. Then, make soldering jigs for assembly (as Hundeman did) and you can really move along. Now that I have a grit blaster, prepping them for paint is easy too! I have thought about plastic, but I worry about long term durability with the tension of the catenary....will the posts slowly bend? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] HO GG1s Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:55:38 -0400 OK Greg now you've got me interested. Where is Bill Kachel's home made book available for purchase? Is it something we can get on Jerry's site. Note to Jerry sorry for volunteering you without your permission. Chris Chany __ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:01:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s --part1_2f.2cb338f1.2aaa2b48_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr. Smith: Do you have experience with single contact overhead power or is that an assumption that it would not be acceptable. I Have had some experience with the Vollmer system in HO some years ago and my memory tells me that it worked just fine. However there was some sparking but the the prototype sparks on occasion doesn't it? Ray Burghart An SPF for over 50 years --part1_2f.2cb338f1.2aaa2b48_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr. Smith:

Do you have experience with single contact overhead power or is that an assumption that it would not be acceptable. I Have had some experience with the Vollmer system in HO some years ago and my memory tells me that it worked just fine. However there was some sparking but the the prototype sparks on occasion doesn't it?

Ray Burghart
An SPF for over 50 years --part1_2f.2cb338f1.2aaa2b48_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:04:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG1s From: Jerry Britton On 9/6/02 11:55 AM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > OK Greg now you've got me interested. Where is Bill Kachel's home made book > available for purchase? Is it something we can get on Jerry's site. > > Note to Jerry sorry for volunteering you without your permission. > No problem. I'm not familiar with the book either, but would be happy to either post the book or how to get it. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:16:49 -0400 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG1s Bruce, Tried it with Plastruct H girders. In the proper scale size, they were way too flexible, even without wire. To stop the excessive flexibility, You would have to go way over scale. Did not like the looks of them. Ended up using brass shapes, solder & wire. Did it on an assembly line basis and it was easier than it sounds. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO "Bruce F. Smith" wrote: > > I have thought about plastic, but I worry about long term > durability with the tension of the catenary....will the posts slowly bend? > > Happy Rails > Bruce > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:28:19 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s Hi Ray, No personal experience, but I have watched many a traction layout, and seen a lot of problems with contact. I plan to install DCC and sound systems and so the momentary loss of contact will really play havoc with those. Finally, since many steamers ran on the same lines, I found it very hard to figure a logical scheme that allowed for 2 rail and overhead ops with reverse segments. Regards Bruce >Dr. Smith: Do you have experience with single contact overhead power or >is that an assumption that it would not be acceptable. I Have had some >experience with the Vollmer system in HO some years ago and my memory >tells me that it worked just fine. However there was some sparking but the >the prototype sparks on occasion doesn't it? Ray Burghart An SPF for over >50 years Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:45:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s I tend to agree, no need to feed power through catenary. But I wonder if anyone has thought of connecting a static generator to model overhead to generate arcs when pantographs lose contact! John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 20:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] HO PRR Catenary,(was:HO GG-1s) There are two guys in Delaware,who have realistic PRR catenary hung over thier layouts. But the wire is just for show(no power). But it looks great! Back in the early 1990s, Noel Holley did an article in Mainline Modeler about building PRR and VGN style catenary. This is one of the best model catenary articles ever done. There are photos of his PRR style "Incline Catenary" which is found on the sharp curves of the "Port Road" and "A&S Branch". Mr.Holley"s PRR catenary is the most realistic EVER! So you guys who want to build catenary should try to get that back issue of Mainline Modeler from 1993. It's still listed in the "back issues" of MM Magazine. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 21:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] N5c Lists, The local chapter of the NRHS, the Beaver Valley Jct Chapter, has recently started the restoration of x-PRR N5c 477974. This job will most likely take several years of part time work to get it to the point were it will resemble an N5c in the as delivered scheme. I have started a webpage for those interested in following the progress. Not much has been done yet but it is interesting to learn how the PRR put this together and how PC and CR modified it to fit their needs. The site can be found here: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 21:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] N5c Lists, The local chapter of the NRHS, the Beaver Valley Jct Chapter, has recently started the restoration of x-PRR N5c 477974. This job will most likely take several years of part time work to get it to the point were it will resemble an N5c in the as delivered scheme. I have started a webpage for those interested in following the progress. Not much has been done yet but it is interesting to learn how the PRR put this together and how PC and CR modified it to fit their needs. The site can be found here: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Laurie Cooper" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO PRR Catenary Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 20:46:05 -0700 For catenary, my thought would be to experiment with plastic fiber optic strands like they use in lighted signs. I think they call it MDDF. It seems like it should have good rigidity characteristics - not too much that it couldn't give, yet strong enough to hold shape and not to kink like wire. Don't know how it would take to CA or paint for that matter. Maybe someday I'll get to it. John -----Original Message----- From: zootowerprr@webtv.net To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Friday, September 06, 2002 5:54 PM Subject: [PRR] HO PRR Catenary,(was:HO GG-1s) There are two guys in Delaware,who have realistic PRR catenary hung over thier layouts. But the wire is just for show(no power). But it looks great! Back in the early 1990s, Noel Holley did an article in Mainline Modeler about building PRR and VGN style catenary. This is one of the best model catenary articles ever done. There are photos of his PRR style "Incline Catenary" which is found on the sharp curves of the "Port Road" and "A&S Branch". Mr.Holley"s PRR catenary is the most realistic EVER! So you guys who want to build catenary should try to get that back issue of Mainline Modeler from 1993. It's still listed in the "back issues" of MM Magazine. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 09:56:37 +0200 From: Burkhard Sanner Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s Hi list, first about the companies: ndbprr@att.net schrieb: > There are at least six HO suppliers out there. > 1. AHM large flanges only for code 100 single motor > 2. IHC RP25 flanges? dual motor seesm to be the best of > the plastic to me. Made in Slovinia. This Slovenian company happens to be Mehano. > 3. Pemco. Cheap mechanism but they do hold up. No > longer in production > 4. Rivarossi - was AHM is that the IHC supplier? Rivarossi originally built the first AHM and then IHC GG-1, but apparently sold most of its tools for American diesel and electro to Mehano. > 5. Mehano - Who are they and how do their engines run > and hold up under the magnifying glass for detail? As stated above, they are the current producers of GG-1. The IHC dual-motor models are exactly the same, as is obvious from the what I said above. I own a Mehano GG-1, and it rund fine (well, no catenary, so it would only be hauled by a diesel or steamer over my lines in reality; but I could not resist). > 6. ROCO announced a G according to MR. Any thoughts on > where it will fit in the ranking? Roco will for sure have an excellent engine. I own some Swiss electrics like BLS Ae 6/8 or SBB Be 6/8 of their making, and they look and run superb. My E-R (Roco) sharknose is not up to the standard they produce for the European market, so the N&W Y3 is what they are really capable of doing (that is another engine I could not resist to buy). Actually, I do not quite understand why Roco is duplicating on the GG-1. > Thanks, Norm Bell > > --- A word on catenary: It is quite frequently used here in Europe, including feeding electricity through the overhead wire realistically. This was the only way in pre-DCC-times to have two locos operate separately on the same track and in the same electric block, be feeding one through one rail, the other through the overhead wire, and use the other rail as common return. Well, there was Trix Express with 3-rail also, but that was not prototypical; and Maerklin has no insulation between the rails. The best catenary is pre-stressed like in the real world, and very rigid poles are needed. The premier manufacturer (I would say world-wide) is: http://www.sommerfeldt.de/ (sorry, I don´t think they have an English website). However, catenary is expensive and can be quite messy to work (rerail etc.) under. I only have a short line leading into nirwana, with Swiss-type catenary from Sommerfeldt, just because Swiss locos do not look correctly without (that´s on my European line). And now to close: My heart is with steam, anyway. Burkhard Sanner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 08:27:01 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: HO PRR Catenary The "two guys from Delaware" are probably the ones who built the very beautiful O scale cat at the Cherry Valley club in New Jersey. One presented a clinic at last year's O scale national convention on building that cat. They use steel piano wire (as in K&S wire). Cherry Valley did not power it, but ran pans under it. It does look great, and they make building it look very simple. Steve Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] HO PRR Catenary From: "Laurie Cooper" Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 20:46:05 -0700 For catenary, my thought would be to experiment with plastic fiber optic strands like they use in lighted signs. I think they call it MDDF. It seems like it should have good rigidity characteristics - not too much that it couldn't give, yet strong enough to hold shape and not to kink like wire. Don't know how it would take to CA or paint for that matter. Maybe someday I'll get to it. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 09:05:15 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: HO PRR Catenary --part1_bc.2bf928ba.2aab538b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A word of caution as to working with fiber optic line for modeling. This is for the type fiber used in communications and not the type used for artwork. The actual fiber element is very thin and breaks easily once the fiber is exposed. A serious health hazard is when it penetrates your skin and breaks off it is very difficult to impossible to find and remove. The fiber does not work its way out like a splinter would, it works its way deeper and can enter the circulatory system causing serious damage. We use a tremendous amount of fiber in our facility and so far our safety requirements for working with it have paid off. BUT, we have heard of incidents where improper handling of fiber while applying terminations has had very serious consequences. My recommendation is to stay away from the use of communications type fiber in modeling as the unsheathed and exposed fiber would create an ever-present health risk. Evan Leisey PS It is an epoxy that is used to set the fiber in a termination (connector). Super glues also bonds well to the clad fiber element. --part1_bc.2bf928ba.2aab538b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  A word of caution as to working with fiber optic line for modeling.   This is for the type fiber used in communications and not the type used for artwork.   The actual fiber element is very thin and breaks easily once the fiber is exposed.  A serious health hazard is when it penetrates your skin and breaks off it is very difficult to impossible to find and remove.  The fiber does not work its way out like a splinter would,  it works its way deeper and can enter the circulatory system causing serious damage.

 We use a tremendous amount of fiber in our facility and so far our safety requirements for working with it have paid off.  BUT,  we have heard of incidents where improper handling of fiber while applying terminations has had very serious consequences.

 My recommendation is to stay away from the use of communications type fiber in modeling as the unsheathed and exposed fiber would create an ever-present health risk.

Evan Leisey

PS    It is an epoxy that is used to set the fiber in a termination (connector).  Super glues also bonds well to the clad fiber element. --part1_bc.2bf928ba.2aab538b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 10:49:11 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 09/07/02 --part1_162.13809524.2aab6be7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: GG1. 15-20 years ago, I stripped an AHM GG1, repainted it tuscan and decorated it with 5 stripes etc. The number is 4876 and the only reason I did it was because it's the one my father-in-lay rode into the basement of Union Station while he was a PRR fireman. The loco sits on a shelf in a clear plastic case. I think I ran it once or twice just to see if it ran. No catenary, no straight electrics! Back in the 70's & 80's I was a member of a club located in West York (York, PA) called the West York Society of Model Engineers. We installed operating catenary on the layout. I was not an "electrified" person so I didn't get involved in that part of the layout. However, I believe they used welding rod for poles. Don't know what they used for wire but the whole thing was extremely strong and worked well. If anybody has a real burning desire to find out how it was done, let me know and I'll ask the guys who built it. Several of them are regular operators on the CPRR whom I see at least once a month. Bob Martin --part1_162.13809524.2aab6be7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re:  GG1.  15-20 years ago, I stripped an AHM GG1, repainted it tuscan and decorated it with 5 stripes etc.  The number is 4876 and the only reason I did it was because it's the one my father-in-lay rode into the basement of Union Station while he was a PRR fireman.    

The loco sits on a shelf in a clear plastic case.  I think I ran it once or twice just to see if it ran.  No catenary, no straight electrics!

Back in the 70's & 80's I was a member of a club located in West York (York, PA) called the West York Society of Model Engineers.  We installed operating catenary on the layout.  I was not an "electrified" person so I didn't get involved in that part of the layout.  However, I believe they used welding rod for poles.  Don't know what they used for wire but the whole thing was extremely strong and worked well.  

If anybody has a real burning desire to find out how it was done, let me know and I'll ask the guys who built it.  Several of them are regular operators on the CPRR whom I see at least once a month.

Bob Martin --part1_162.13809524.2aab6be7_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: RE: [PRR] HO PRR Catenary Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 11:31:05 -0400 Your answer to rigidity characteristics is piano wire. It can be soldered, its strong, and most important it is thin. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Laurie Cooper Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:46 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] HO PRR Catenary For catenary, my thought would be to experiment with plastic fiber optic strands like they use in lighted signs. I think they call it MDDF. It seems like it should have good rigidity characteristics - not too much that it couldn't give, yet strong enough to hold shape and not to kink like wire. Don't know how it would take to CA or paint for that matter. Maybe someday I'll get to it. John -----Original Message----- From: zootowerprr@webtv.net To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Friday, September 06, 2002 5:54 PM Subject: [PRR] HO PRR Catenary,(was:HO GG-1s) There are two guys in Delaware,who have realistic PRR catenary hung over thier layouts. But the wire is just for show(no power). But it looks great! Back in the early 1990s, Noel Holley did an article in Mainline Modeler about building PRR and VGN style catenary. This is one of the best model catenary articles ever done. There are photos of his PRR style "Incline Catenary" which is found on the sharp curves of the "Port Road" and "A&S Branch". Mr.Holley"s PRR catenary is the most realistic EVER! So you guys who want to build catenary should try to get that back issue of Mainline Modeler from 1993. It's still listed in the "back issues" of MM Magazine. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: HO PRR Catenary Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 11:39:51 -0400 The Grant brothers. One is from jersey, the other Delaware. Talking about GG1's, Charlie Grant had one pulling a 10 car train. I was told the model was not only extremely weighted, he also turned his own wheels when he replaced the drive mechanism with Athearn 3 axle diesel trucks with the new wheels. Also reworked the drive shaft. It pulled the cars like no other GG1, especially through the flying crossover. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Bartlett Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 8:27 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Re: HO PRR Catenary The "two guys from Delaware" are probably the ones who built the very beautiful O scale cat at the Cherry Valley club in New Jersey. One presented a clinic at last year's O scale national convention on building that cat. They use steel piano wire (as in K&S wire). Cherry Valley did not power it, but ran pans under it. It does look great, and they make building it look very simple. Steve Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] HO PRR Catenary From: "Laurie Cooper" Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 20:46:05 -0700 For catenary, my thought would be to experiment with plastic fiber optic strands like they use in lighted signs. I think they call it MDDF. It seems like it should have good rigidity characteristics - not too much that it couldn't give, yet strong enough to hold shape and not to kink like wire. Don't know how it would take to CA or paint for that matter. Maybe someday I'll get to it. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 15:16:33 -0400 From: Nick Kulp Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s --=====================_20268366==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi John, I do not have the time nor the skill to string catenary but I love the GG1 and no PRR layout should be without one. My solution was simple. When I want to run my GG-1s I tie an experimental (and undocumented) "Generator" car behind the locos. It is a tongue-in-cheek gag that generally creates looks of disdain from PRR fanatic rivet-counters but gets a laugh from nuts like myself. Usually the large alligator clip I have attached to the pantagraph gets items thrown at me but it does solve my problem. One of the Walther's diesel engines can be seen through the doors of the boxcar and a fuel car is directly behind the generator car. I do remember there used to be someone that did manufacture scale PRR style cat supports but I haven't seen them advertised for a long time. Modeling the PRR, Reading, and the Cornwall Railroads and having a good time. Nick Kulp >From: >Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:00:51 -0400 > >Just wondering what all you folks with your fleets of GG-1 motors >do for catenary, or do they all sit on the shelf or get pulled around >by (shudder) diesels or something? I'd love to recreate my youth, >when I had a Lionel GG-1 running under catenary I soldered >together from #18 copper bell wire! But how do you create realistic >catenary, particularly in HO? > >I'm more interested in an E-44 or two; and I must say, the photo in >the new Model Railroader of the E-33 looks somewhat toylike to >my eyes. > >John Bobsin --=====================_20268366==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi John,

I do not have the time nor the skill to string catenary but I love the GG1 and no PRR layout should be without one. My solution was simple. When I want to run my GG-1s I tie an experimental (and undocumented) "Generator" car behind the locos. It is a tongue-in-cheek gag that generally creates looks of disdain from PRR fanatic rivet-counters but gets a laugh from nuts like myself. Usually the large alligator clip I have attached to the pantagraph gets items thrown at me but it does solve my problem. One of the Walther's diesel engines can be seen through the doors of the boxcar and a fuel car is directly behind the generator car.

I do remember there used to be someone that did manufacture scale PRR style cat supports but I haven't seen them advertised for a long time.

Modeling the PRR, Reading, and the Cornwall Railroads and having a good time.

Nick Kulp

From: <bobsin@nac.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:00:51 -0400

Just wondering what all you folks with your fleets of GG-1 motors
do for catenary, or do they all sit on the shelf or get pulled around
by (shudder) diesels or something?  I'd love to recreate my youth,
when I had a Lionel GG-1 running under catenary I soldered
together from #18 copper bell wire!  But how do you create realistic
catenary, particularly in HO?

I'm more interested in an E-44 or two; and I must say, the photo in
the new Model Railroader of the E-33 looks somewhat toylike to
my eyes.

John Bobsin
--=====================_20268366==.ALT-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: RE: [PRR] HO GG-1s Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 15:24:55 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C25682.B7EB8D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just scratch build a 2 inch section of catenary and solder it to the top of the pantograph. Imagine your entire layout is strung. Now you done! Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Nick Kulp Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 3:17 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s Hi John, I do not have the time nor the skill to string catenary but I love the GG1 and no PRR layout should be without one. My solution was simple. When I want to run my GG-1s I tie an experimental (and undocumented) "Generator" car behind the locos. It is a tongue-in-cheek gag that generally creates looks of disdain from PRR fanatic rivet-counters but gets a laugh from nuts like myself. Usually the large alligator clip I have attached to the pantagraph gets items thrown at me but it does solve my problem. One of the Walther's diesel engines can be seen through the doors of the boxcar and a fuel car is directly behind the generator car. I do remember there used to be someone that did manufacture scale PRR style cat supports but I haven't seen them advertised for a long time. Modeling the PRR, Reading, and the Cornwall Railroads and having a good time. Nick Kulp From: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:00:51 -0400 Just wondering what all you folks with your fleets of GG-1 motors do for catenary, or do they all sit on the shelf or get pulled around by (shudder) diesels or something? I'd love to recreate my youth, when I had a Lionel GG-1 running under catenary I soldered together from #18 copper bell wire! But how do you create realistic catenary, particularly in HO? I'm more interested in an E-44 or two; and I must say, the photo in the new Model Railroader of the E-33 looks somewhat toylike to my eyes. John Bobsin ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C25682.B7EB8D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ju= st scratch build a 2 inch section of catenary and solder it to the top of = the pantograph.=A0 Imagine your = entire layout is strung.=A0 Now you = done!=A0 Beauty is in the eyes of the = beholder.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf = Of Nick Kulp
Sent: Saturday, September = 07, 2002 3:17 PM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] HO = GG-1s

 

Hi = John,

I do not have the time nor the skill to string catenary but I love the = GG1 and no PRR layout should be without one. My solution was simple. When I want = to run my GG-1s I tie an experimental (and undocumented) "Generator" = car behind the locos. It is a tongue-in-cheek gag that generally creates = looks of disdain from PRR fanatic rivet-counters but gets a laugh from nuts like = myself. Usually the large alligator clip I have attached to the pantagraph gets = items thrown at me but it does solve my problem. One of the Walther's diesel = engines can be seen through the doors of the boxcar and a fuel car is directly = behind the generator car.

I do remember there used to be someone that did manufacture scale PRR = style cat supports but I haven't seen them advertised for a long time.

Modeling the PRR, Reading, and the Cornwall Railroads and having a good = time.

Nick Kulp


From: <bobsin@nac.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:00:51 -0400

Just wondering what all you folks with your fleets of GG-1 motors
do for catenary, or do they all sit on the shelf or get pulled around =
by (shudder) diesels or something?  I'd love to recreate my youth, =
when I had a Lionel GG-1 running under catenary I soldered
together from #18 copper bell wire!  But how do you create = realistic
catenary, particularly in HO?

I'm more interested in an E-44 or two; and I must say, the photo in
the new Model Railroader of the E-33 looks somewhat toylike to
my eyes.

John Bobsin

------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C25682.B7EB8D00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s From: Matthew J Brown Date: 07 Sep 2002 12:44:24 -0700 Burkhard Sanner writes: > Actually, I do not quite understand why Roco > is duplicating on the GG-1. Because it's probably the world's second most well known electric locomotive, after the Swiss crocodile? A high quality model of it would sell really well, even to those who don't model PRR. A good collector's market for it. And a model produced to modern Roco standards would be so far ahead of the existing model. -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 20:34:09 -0400 From: John Ryan Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG-1s Charlie Grant in Wilmington and Bill Kachel in Kennett Square both have some catenary. On an earlier layout, Bill Kathel's catenary provided power for headlights. I saw Charlie Grant's last spring and it was very impressive, especially his DC Union Station area. John Ryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Shelb68man@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 23:56:59 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Catenary 
I have used Bill Kachel's style of catenary with very good results on my 

Schuylkill Div. layout. Bill gave an excellent talk and handed out a pamphlet 

on building PRR catenary several years ago at a Phila. Chp. meeting which got 

me hooked. Bill's system is fairly easy to build and results in a very strong 

and realistic catenary sys. It's also very inexpensive to make being made up 

of piano wire, soldering rod and 100 code rail. This was my very first 

attempt at building catenary and I found it not too difficult to do.You can 

see a few pictures of it on Jerry's site under Model Railroads. 

Unfortunately, I will be moving soon and the layout will be coming down. 

Charles Chandler



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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" 

Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG1s

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:42:17 -0400



Dear Bruce and Ed.:



I use "H" brass detail shapes for up-front cat, 3/16" square bronze rod for

middle distance and anything, including coat hanger metal, for the

background more than 4' away.  You can't see the lack of detail anyway and

it gets cheaper.  I use code 100, code 70 and code 55 rail upside down for

the cross pieces and high voltage and signal wire carriers, with 1/32 brass

wire for braces.  My trolley and contact wire is doubled .0015 piano wire

silver

soldered at 2 inch intervals to form a 1/32 inch vertical gap between wires.

I

stagger the horizontal running gaps between the individual pieces of piano

wire for

strength.  I make up about 25 feet of trolley wire at a time and string it

from the crosspieces.



Lew





----- Original Message -----

From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" 

To: 

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:16 PM

Subject: Re: [PRR] HO GG1s





> Bruce,

>

> Tried it with Plastruct H girders. In the proper scale size, they were

> way too flexible, even without wire. To stop the excessive flexibility,

> You would have to go way over scale.

> Did not like the looks of them.

> Ended up using brass shapes, solder & wire. Did it on an assembly line

> basis and it was easier than it sounds.

>

> Regards,

>

> Eddie

> Dr. Edmond L. Freed

> PRRT&HS # 156

> Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO

>

>

> "Bruce F. Smith" wrote:

> >

> >  I  have thought about plastic, but I worry about long term

> > durability with the tension of the catenary....will the posts slowly

bend?

> >

> > Happy Rails

> > Bruce

> >

>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.









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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
From: bobsin@nac.net

Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 11:43:22 -0400

Subject: RE: [PRR] HO PRR Catenary



Gregory said,



>Your answer to rigidity characteristics is piano wire.



Actually yes, the Bill Kachel handbook agrees; Bill specifies "1/32 

steel music wire" for the trolley wire.  



My question: is music or piano wire just plain steel?  Won't it rust? 

 How best to solder it?



John Bobsin



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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 17:06:32 -0400

Subject: [PRR] John Prophet's Passing

From: "Jerry @ Pennsyrr" 



This afternoon, at a Northern Central Chapter meeting, I learned that John

Prophet passed away last Tuesday.



John was a co-founder of the PRRT&HS and is often known as "the guy who

carried car batteries trackside to power his recording equipment". Many of

us today enjoy the fruits of his labor, in the form of the steam recordings

(CD's, LP's) available from the Society.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jerry Britton, Regional Superintendent, PRR Eastern Region

 Modeling the PRR in September 1954

  http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/







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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com

Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 23:29:21 EDT

Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Branchline X43c CK



Andy Miller seems to be at the center of much debate of late...  trouble 

maker... 3^)



Let me say this, I was ask my opinion nearly a year ago on the subject 

whether the roof color was black and was quoted to from PRR spec's of post 

1954 on the roof treatment, my recommendation was and still is not to release 

the cars in general PRR paint with straight Black roofs, there is no hard 

evidence that the cars prior to the X56 were left unpainted with the 

exception to the leased cars received from General American that were also 

painted "hunter green". Let's not ignore all of the photos we see of red 

roofs and abandon what we know for a few photos of what we believe. Please 

read on... 





Rick writes :

prrhistorian@adelphia.net writes:



<< Here is a great response I received from Branchline Trains on their reason 

to simulate a black roof with red overspray from the side.  It's nice to see 

the research they did for the car.

 

 Rick

 -------



Bill Schneider repsonds... 



 <