Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 08:10:21 +0900 From: K-Hiyama Subject: Re: [PRR] Movie: North by Northwest Lew and the Lists, Both locomotives hava just "SOUTHERN". The patchs covered to "PACIFIC". :-) The trains consists were following. 1. a "Black widow" F-unit with steam generater & 36in. DB fan. Maybe F5,F7,F9. 2. a "Blody nose" F9 without steam generater. 3. NYC baggage car. tow tone glay scheme. 4-6. Espee's "DayLight" scheme coachs. Please visit to my PRR model page http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Toys/9237/index.html Kazuaki Hiyama. from Japan. "Lewis J. Matt PhD" wrote: > The side of each loco was labeled "Southern" no Pacific was evident. :-) > > Lew > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:55:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Metrics Dick writes... << Just my 2 cents worth - notice that computers don't have a 1/4 a 1/2 or "cents" keys? They had to be dropped - for instruction keys and since it was no longer possible to use an "O" for a Zero or an "I" for a numeral 1.... >> Would it surprise anyone to see ½¢ or ¼¢ or ¾¢ on an email...? 3^) MY spell checker stops at your 1/4 but breezes by the ¼... Go figure? They are there you just need to know how to access them. When the world changes we Yanks think it should change for us... We even remind the masses of Americans that we are the biggest market for foreign goods there is. This might all be true but maybe the world will change again...? Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] Metrics Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:14:54 +0100 I would agree with the variations in the size of an inch, the Swedes had a large network of 3' gauge lines that were 891mm in Metric. This scales out as 35.078" British... As to the weird pre metric UK, what about the currency prior to 1971 when there were 240p to one Pound. Patrick Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew J Brown" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:17 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Metrics > I think that the two reasons the Metric system took off worldwide are > simply: > > (a) Scientists love it; the one place the USA uses metric exclusively > is in science. The easy unit conversions and relatively logical > system just work better, and besides, a consistant language (English) > and measuring system (SI) worldwide are just so helpful for science. > > (b) No system that required the world to pick up one country's > traditional system was ever going to work. Metric, being nobody's > traditional system, was the only thing that stood a chance to become a > world standard. > > Remember, every European country had inches, pretty much. The problem > was, each of them had their *own* inch. Nobody was going to accept > one guy's inch over anyone else's. > > - > > The other part of it is simply that many countries' pre-Metric > measurement systems were very complicated. Look at the British > Imperial measurements, sometime. > > -Matt > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 06:22:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR power From: Jerry Britton On 7/31/02 5:35 PM, "KEMACPRR@aol.com" wrote: > I've heard on some other lists that Roco has announced the future production > of an HO scale GG-1. They also announced production of the AC 4400 and an > updated > FP-7 which is suppoused to come equipped with sound. The FP7 with sound will be in Tuscan five-stripe and marketed by ER Models. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 07:31:39 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR and PC Arranged Freight Schedules In a message dated 7/30/02 1:11:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PennsyWest] Changes over time in Arranged Freight > Schedules > From: "Gregg Mahlkov" > Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:53:40 -0400 > > List, > > Working in the PRR Traffic Department from 1962 to 1968 (and beyond with > PC), I recall that each one of us in Sales maintained a looseleaf Through > Freight Schedules book. We got revisions monthly, and they ran from a > couple > of pages to 50 pages or more. Not all changed times or blocks, many just > changed connections at origin, intermediate, or destination yards, but > there > WAS constant change. > > Gregg Mahlkov > Greg, Some kind soul at Columbus Division headquarters once gave me the corresponding PC binder and a large number of sets of insertions for the book. I keep hoping, in the aftermath of our move, that I will find my complete file of this material. In any case, I can attest that this "kit" contained frequent page changes, showing that these schedules continued to be altered a lot into PC days. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Access your PC just like Web Mail http://us.click.yahoo.com/r5uw2C/zncEAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 07:31:39 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR and PC Arranged Freight Schedules --part1_150.11c13a5c.2a7a761b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/02 1:11:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PennsyWest] Changes over time in Arranged Freight > Schedules > From: "Gregg Mahlkov" > Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:53:40 -0400 > > List, > > Working in the PRR Traffic Department from 1962 to 1968 (and beyond with > PC), I recall that each one of us in Sales maintained a looseleaf Through > Freight Schedules book. We got revisions monthly, and they ran from a > couple > of pages to 50 pages or more. Not all changed times or blocks, many just > changed connections at origin, intermediate, or destination yards, but > there > WAS constant change. > > Gregg Mahlkov > Greg, Some kind soul at Columbus Division headquarters once gave me the corresponding PC binder and a large number of sets of insertions for the book. I keep hoping, in the aftermath of our move, that I will find my complete file of this material. In any case, I can attest that this "kit" contained frequent page changes, showing that these schedules continued to be altered a lot into PC days. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_150.11c13a5c.2a7a761b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/02 1:11:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PennsyWest] Changes over time in Arranged Freight  Schedules
From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@gtcom.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:53:40 -0400

List,

Working in the PRR Traffic Department from 1962 to 1968 (and beyond with
PC), I recall that each one of us in Sales maintained a looseleaf Through
Freight Schedules book. We got revisions monthly, and they ran from a couple
of pages to 50 pages or more. Not all changed times or blocks, many just
changed connections at origin, intermediate, or destination yards, but there
WAS constant change.

Gregg Mahlkov


Greg,

Some kind soul at Columbus Division headquarters once gave me the corresponding PC binder and a large number of sets of insertions for the book.  I keep hoping, in the aftermath of our move, that I will find my complete file of this material.  In any case, I can attest that this "kit" contained frequent page changes, showing that these schedules continued to be altered a lot into PC days.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_150.11c13a5c.2a7a761b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 07:41:27 -0400 From: "Gluckman, Robert" Subject: [PRR] FOR SALE: Soho HO Brass PRR Broadway cars I have a number of Soho (and some other importers) HO brass PRR passenger cars for sale. If Interested, please contact me off-list. Bob Gluckman ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 08:09:09 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Metrics All of Medicine is also metric EXCEPT the scale and thermometer in your doc's office which are still in pounds (lb. a Latin leftover) and degrees Fahrenheit (sp?) since these are the units that most patients are used to being measured in.... All the worlds major scientific Medical literature is in English but all medications in metric grams, milligrams, milliliters and so on. The old "American" pharmacy system was in grains, drams, ounces and used a bizarre bunch of goofy written symbols-- including Rx-- that I can neither remember or reproduce. Mandatory PRR content: If you look in older ETTs, there are listings of all the contracted Railroad surgeons, hospitals and first aid stations. These guys were old enough to remember drams! Jim McDaniel, prescribing in Metric here in Delmarva and wishing I could still be a PRR doctor. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Metrics Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:56:21 +0000 As a chemical engineer I have no trouble going back and forth between metric and English measurement. I have always been somewhat amused that we have a metric monetary system that is the easiest to understand in the world yet we resist changing the English measurement system whereas other countries have ridiculous monetary systems they refuse to change and use metric measurement systems. Go figure! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 08:19:29 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: North by Northwest From: John Sheets In the beginning of the movie, Cary Grant is traveling NY to Chicago on 20th Century, there are shots at Grand Central and along the Hudson as the police stop to board the train. The arrival in Chicago is shot in LaSalle St Station, they walk the train into the waiting room, and pass the NYC E's in Lightning Bolt grey scheme. There are additional shots in the men's lounge as he shaves, and avoids the police. The end shot is an SP engine and some tough to ID cars. Odd that Hitchcock used that scene as they were so perfect at the beginning. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Metrics Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:03:22 -0500 Also as an chemical engineer, I note that there is a difference between SI and metric units, particularly with respect to pressure and viscosity. I believe that the SI system, which is not in wide-spread use outside of academia, uses the PASCAL as a unit of force, and a PASCAL-SEC as a unit of viscosity. In plants that I have worked in which employ the metric system, pressure is usually in (horrors!) kilograms-force/sq. cm. or bars, and viscosity is still in centipoise. It should also be pointed out that a lot of the equipment is still designed in the English system of measurement, but the spec sheets are in metric. I've seen many heat exchangers specified with 25.4 mm ( actually one inch) tubes. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 7:56 AM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Metrics As a chemical engineer I have no trouble going back and forth between metric and English measurement. I have always been somewhat amused that we have a metric monetary system that is the easiest to understand in the world yet we resist changing the English measurement system whereas other countries have ridiculous monetary systems they refuse to change and use metric measurement systems. Go figure! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR power Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:13:58 +0000 Jerry and the List: I wonder if Roco/ER will re-tool the FP-7 shell. Especially the number boards. Overall, the shell is not too bad. I have about 3 of them when they were available from Atlas. Ted >From: Jerry Britton >To: Ken McCorry , PRR-Talk >Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR power >Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 06:22:07 -0400 > >On 7/31/02 5:35 PM, "KEMACPRR@aol.com" wrote: > > > I've heard on some other lists that Roco has announced the future >production > > of an HO scale GG-1. They also announced production of the AC 4400 and >an > > updated > > FP-7 which is suppoused to come equipped with sound. > >The FP7 with sound will be in Tuscan five-stripe and marketed by ER Models. >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > >"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of >Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana >products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", >the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- >Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are >providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit >our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Buffalo line Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:18:23 +0000 There is an article on Trains.com web page about aplhabet routes that may be old knowledge but according to the article NS is going to mothball the PRR Buffalo line. They intend to shift their traffic to the old D&H line which will eliminate Keating summit and the required helpers. According to the article this is the steepest grade in the east at 2.2%. They do not intend to take up the tracks but they don't intend to utilize it for the forseeable future. If the article is accurate the information is quite thorough and worth the time to read it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] B60 longetivity Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:47:59 -0400 Claus and List: >From some PRR lists at the Penna. State Archives are the following totals of B60, B60A and B60B for January 1st of the listed years: Year B60 B60A B60B 1947 316 42 551 1950 313 42 550 1953 280 39 548 1956 115 38 544 1960 86 29 534 1964 24 11 398 1967 3 3 213 1968 0 0 179 Note that a few B60 cars were modified with low arch roofs replacing the clerestory. These were still Class B60 and are not separately identified in the original PRR lists. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claus Schlund" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:56 PM Subject: [PRR] B60 longetivity > Hi, > > Some time back Lew Matt and I were trying to > get some rough idea how long > the original B60 class of baggage cars lasted > in service. > > Now please note, I'm not talking about the later > B60b class, with it's balloon roof. I'm talking about the > original B60 class, which had a clerestory roof as it's > major spotting feature. The B60 car class was older and > was built much earlier than the B60b, with the earliest B60 > cars being built about 20 years before the first B60b > was constructed. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 13:42:02 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Metrics In a message dated 8/1/02 9:03:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ndbprr@att.net writes: << I have always been somewhat amused that we have a metric monetary system >> Not to be overly argumentative but our monetary ststem, I would say, is Decimal, not Metric - and, I believe, predates the Napoleanic Metric Measurement system. RR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:46:07 -0400 Subject: [PRR] 1954 Arranged Freight Schedules From: Jerry Britton I analyzing the schedule of trains that crossed the Rockville Bridge and/or went through Harrisburg for inclusion in my operating session plans, which spans 3 p.m. to 11 p.m. based on the schedules as published on September 26, 1954. The total number of scheduled freight and passenger trains during this eight hour shift is 49. Non-scheduled trains include mineral trains, Enola-Rutherford interchange trains, and local freights. I arrived at the list of scheduled freights based on their inclusion in the Philadelphia Division Employee TimeTable (ETT). I then looked up their symbols in the Arranged Freight Service Schedule dated December 1954. There are several trains not included in the latter, so they were probably discontinued after September and before December. Can anyone tell me anything about them, such as nicknames or consists (blocks)? They are HP-1 which I believe to be Pitcairn to East St. Louis BF-7 " Enola to Buffalo PG-15 " Enola to Pittsburgh NL-7 " Enola to Crestline PG-7 " Enola to Pittsburgh I also consulted the 1952 edition of the Arranged Freight Service Schedule and they weren't listed there either. Does anyone have a freight schedule from 1954 that is EARLIER than the December edition that I have? Similarly, does anyone have an MP229 from 1954? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: howdy@qnet.com Subject: [PRR] Interactive Units Converter Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 17:46:07 GMT Hi all, This site should answer all your conversion questions. http://www.convert-me.com/en/ Howdy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:57:44 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Metrics I am not sure what this thread has to do with the PRR, but while we are on it I have always been amazed (and relieved) that the powers that be never tried to metricized time. 1 day = 10 chrons 1 chron (=2.4 hours) 1 millechron (mch) (= 0.144 minutes = 8.64 secs) The Broadway Ltd departs NYP at 7.5 ch (EST) [there, that keeps it kosher ;-) ] Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== VVA249@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/1/02 9:03:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ndbprr@att.net > writes: > > << I have always been somewhat amused that we have a metric monetary system > >> > > Not to be overly argumentative but our monetary ststem, I would say, is > Decimal, not Metric - and, I believe, predates the Napoleanic Metric > Measurement system. > RR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:05:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Metrics From: Jerry Britton On 8/1/02 1:57 PM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > I am not sure what this thread has to do with the PRR PRR came up a couple times during the conversation, but I have to agree, I think it is time to put this topic to rest... ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] 1954 Arranged Freight Schedules Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:07:12 +0000 Hope you aren't planning to use a fast clock. That works out to one every ten minutes in real time. How big is your operating department budget? :-) > I analyzing the schedule of trains that crossed the Rockville Bridge and/or > went through Harrisburg for inclusion in my operating session plans, which > spans 3 p.m. to 11 p.m. based on the schedules as published on September 26, > 1954. > > The total number of scheduled freight and passenger trains during this eight > hour shift is 49. Non-scheduled trains include mineral trains, > Enola-Rutherford interchange trains, and local freights. > > I arrived at the list of scheduled freights based on their inclusion in the > Philadelphia Division Employee TimeTable (ETT). I then looked up their > symbols in the Arranged Freight Service Schedule dated December 1954. There > are several trains not included in the latter, so they were probably > discontinued after September and before December. Can anyone tell me > anything about them, such as nicknames or consists (blocks)? They are > > HP-1 which I believe to be Pitcairn to East St. Louis > BF-7 " Enola to Buffalo > PG-15 " Enola to Pittsburgh > NL-7 " Enola to Crestline > PG-7 " Enola to Pittsburgh > > I also consulted the 1952 edition of the Arranged Freight Service Schedule > and they weren't listed there either. > > Does anyone have a freight schedule from 1954 that is EARLIER than the > December edition that I have? > > Similarly, does anyone have an MP229 from 1954? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:14:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] 1954 Arranged Freight Schedules From: Jerry Britton On 8/1/02 2:07 PM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > Hope you aren't planning to use a fast clock. That > works out to one every ten minutes in real time. How > big is your operating department budget? :-) First, I said I was "analyzing" trains for inclusion. I did not say I was going to model all 49 trains! Yes, I plan to use a fast clock. Tentatively looking at 2:1, which would make for a four hour session. Everyone involved so far thinks this is fine and I've been through a few sessions of this length myself. IF, I said IF, I were to do all trains, that would average 13 per hour. The following would be considerations: * There are bottlenecks on the layout. Can close schedules be accomplished in compressed time, especially on routes such as Enola to Buffalo which will block all four tracks of the Rockville Bridge? * Would there be enough time to swap out power (if needed) at Harrisburg, as well as to shuffle cars (required on some trains)? * Can enough operators fit in the area to operate this many trains? I think the answer to all of these is "no". When I get closer to operating I will select which trains to model. Selection will be based on consist and schedule as main factors. BTW: For the vast majority of you that aren't on the Eastern Region's mailing list, my layout has been making steady progress. You can read about it and view photos at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ . ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 11:59:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Sullivan Subject: [PRR] PRR magazine ads on Amazon.com's Z-Shops Hi all, I stumbled across this on Amazon.com's "Z-shops". Quite a neat collection of some PRR magazine ads up for bid. The link is a long one - copy and paste the ENTIRE link into your browser for this to work. http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/search-handle-url/104-4424658-5806367?ix=auction&rank=%2Benddate&fqp=org-unit-id%014%02site-org-unit-id%014%02enddate%010a-%02status%01open%02keywords%01pennsylvania%20railroad%02browse%0168457&sz=3&pg=1&page=1&size=50&rank=*&field-enddate=0a- You can't read ALL the text (some images are small) but there are some VERY interesting ones in there. I especially like the one from 1947 requesting increased freight rates! GO PRR! - Ben ===== ____________________________________________________________ Ride the East Broad Top RR! http://www.spikesys.com/EBT Rockhill Furnace, PA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR power Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:50:17 -0400 How sure is this rumor about a GG1 from Rocco? The German website that seem to get news of new engines long before we do has nothing on it. I wonder if we will ever see a plastic P5a, now that would be cool. Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 15:50:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR power From: Jerry Britton On 8/1/02 3:50 PM, Eric Lauterbach (ealauterbach@earthlink.net) wrote: > How sure is this rumor about a GG1 from Rocco? The German website that seem > to get news of new engines long before we do has nothing on it. I wonder if > we will ever see a plastic P5a, now that would be cool. Every November I run a survey across this list. The results are compiled and forwarded to key contacts at about a dozen manufacturers. The P5/P5a/modified has consistently been the highest requested electric loco. You can find the full results in the list archive if you search on "survey results". ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 16:03:51 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR power Unfortunately, P5s maybe very popular in our elite group, but they don't have the audience that GG-1s do. For a start GG-1s can (legitimately) be painted for PRR (6 schemes), PC, Conrail, Amtrak (several schemes) NJDOT, and the ever popular American RRs baby blue (BBLE?). I own two Alco Models brass P5s and they get extensive usage. The other night one of them hauled a 40 car freight up our long 2% grade at the Northshore Model RR Club! As happy as I am with them, I fear they are all I will ever have :-( -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > On 8/1/02 3:50 PM, Eric Lauterbach (ealauterbach@earthlink.net) wrote: > > > How sure is this rumor about a GG1 from Rocco? The German website that seem > > to get news of new engines long before we do has nothing on it. I wonder if > > we will ever see a plastic P5a, now that would be cool. > > Every November I run a survey across this list. The results are compiled and > forwarded to key contacts at about a dozen manufacturers. > > The P5/P5a/modified has consistently been the highest requested electric > loco. > > You can find the full results in the list archive if you search on "survey > results". > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] 1954 Arranged Freight Schedules Hi Jerry & List......... PRR Freight "BF-7" was out of Baltimore according to PRR Dec 1954 Arr. Freight. Checking Dispatch sheets to see if route via York Pa. or Port Road. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 19:18:16 -0400 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] Freight Service Brief Books FYI - here is what I say about the subject of freight train operations and brief books specifically from, the E&P book - still underway. Revisions were made from time to time in block makeup, times, connections, as well as origin, destination and intermediate points. For example in 1927 EP-1 departed Conway at 2200, in 1929 at 0030, in 1931 at 2315, in 1937 at 0015, in 1941 at 2114, in 1946 at 0830, in 1956 at 0845 and in 1960 at 2030. Changes were made to accommodate changing traffic patterns and other service variations and ranged from a few to many pages. Given that the brief book was a dynamic document discussing any specific symbol's service over time with any degree of consistent accuracy is difficult. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 20:16:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 1954 Arranged Freight Schedules --part1_103.1935d740.2a7b294e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 08/01/2002 1:54:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > HP-1 which I believe to be Pitcairn to East St. Louis > BF-7 " Enola to Buffalo > PG-15 " Enola to Pittsburgh > NL-7 " Enola to Crestline > PG-7 " Enola to Pittsburgh > > For what it is worth from the April 29,1951 Pittsburgh Division ETT HP-1 terminated at Pitcairn not on the corresponding Panhandle Division ETT PG-7 terminated at Conemaugh No NL-7, PG-15 Sept. 26, 1948 ETT Pittsburgh Division HP-1 terminated at Pitcairn PG-7 terminated at Pitcairn No NL-7 or PG-15 >From April 24, 1955 Middle Division ETT PG-15 terminated at ANTIS Rich Orr --part1_103.1935d740.2a7b294e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 08/01/2002 1:54:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes:


HP-1    which I believe to be Pitcairn to East St. Louis
   BF-7    " Enola to Buffalo
   PG-15   " Enola to Pittsburgh
   NL-7    " Enola to Crestline
   PG-7    " Enola to Pittsburgh



For what it is worth from the April 29,1951 Pittsburgh Division ETT
HP-1 terminated at Pitcairn  not on the corresponding Panhandle Division ETT
PG-7 terminated at Conemaugh
No NL-7, PG-15

Sept. 26, 1948 ETT Pittsburgh Division
HP-1 terminated at Pitcairn
PG-7 terminated at Pitcairn
No NL-7 or PG-15

From April 24, 1955 Middle Division ETT
PG-15 terminated at ANTIS

Rich Orr --part1_103.1935d740.2a7b294e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] New Roco models Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:15:48 -0700 Hey Gize... This was just posted to the SteamLoco group...I thought it might be pertanant to a particular thread that's running rampant in the list ;-) Bill Daniels (post follows) Hi guys, Today I received an email newsletter from All American Trains (www.aat-net.de), the German shop that seems to have all the news first... The owner of the shop visited the NMRA Ft. Lauderdale convention and talked to the E&R representatives. I've translated the news on the Roco/E&R partnership. Cornelius Koelewijn - Netherlands (Europe) ===== Roco & E&R Models USA Roco Austria and E&R announced a new partnership in July, whereby Roco will again enter the US market. Roco will not only produce locomotives and cars for the US market, but structures and electronic accessories as well. One of the first offerings will be a starter set with the Roco Digital Mouse II and a GP40. Each set contains three cars and Roco Line track. Paint schemes are UP and CSX. The FP7 model is totally remanufactured and available with decoder and sound only. Roadnames: Amtrak, BN, CP Rail, PRR; C&O and SP. The AC4400 is a entirely new model. Two roadnumbers for each road, with decoder and a third version with sound. Roadnames: CSX-, CNW, CP, SP and UP. Price and date of delivery t.b.a. Other plans: Challenger and GG1. At the Chicago Hobby Show in September Roco will announce another new 'modern' model. Roco will add new American models to the Minitank program. The 'old' freight car models are to be redone with Kadee compatible couplers and authentic loads. The American style digital wrecking crane will be offerend in CB&Q, AT&SF, UP, PRR und NYC. Roco will also offer an American version of the digital turntable. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] 1954 Arranged Freight Schedules..."BF-7" Jerry...... PRR train "BF-7" was pretty much a solid reefer train that was re-iced at Renovo. This train is on a CLY tower sheet from '54 but not sure of York or Port Road route. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1954 Arranged Freight Schedules..."BF-7" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 22:34:50 -0400 Jerry, I don't know about 1954, but in 1966, virtually all traffic except the TrucTrains operated via the Port Road between Enola and Bay View Yard in Baltimore. If BF-7 was a reefer train, it would have traffic originated at Pot Yd, and it would be an easier, and electric, move via the Port Road. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Jerry Britton" ; Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] 1954 Arranged Freight Schedules..."BF-7" > Jerry...... > > PRR train "BF-7" was pretty much a solid reefer train that was > re-iced at Renovo. This train is on a CLY tower sheet from '54 but not > sure of York or Port Road route. > > Dave > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:39:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR power Hey Yuze Gize, It is interesting to note that Atlas doesn't show the Pennsy H-15-44 as one they plan to release. I was just wondering if they would just paint it in PRR to capture the market as Bachmann decided to do. Anyone interested in a Rock Island unit... LOL LOL LOL LOL Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Roco models Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:26:02 +0100 I assume they will fit RP25 wheels and not NEM. Their European models wheels have huge flanges as per NEM standards Patrick Grace www.prr.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 2:15 AM Subject: [PRR] New Roco models > Hey Gize... > > This was just posted to the SteamLoco group...I thought it > might be pertanant to a particular thread that's running > rampant in the list ;-) > > Bill Daniels > > (post follows) > > Hi guys, > > Today I received an email newsletter from All American > Trains > (www.aat-net.de), the German shop that seems to have > all the news > first... The owner of the shop visited the NMRA Ft. > Lauderdale > convention and talked to the E&R representatives. I've > translated the > news on the Roco/E&R partnership. > > Cornelius Koelewijn - Netherlands (Europe) > > > ===== > > > Roco & E&R Models USA > > Roco Austria and E&R announced a new partnership in > July, whereby Roco > will again enter the US market. Roco will not only > produce locomotives > and cars for the US market, but structures and > electronic accessories as > well. > > One of the first offerings will be a starter set with > the Roco Digital > Mouse II and a GP40. Each set contains three cars and > Roco Line track. > Paint schemes are UP and CSX. > > The FP7 model is totally remanufactured and available > with decoder and > sound only. Roadnames: Amtrak, BN, CP Rail, PRR; C&O > and SP. > > The AC4400 is a entirely new model. Two roadnumbers > for each road, with > decoder and a third version with sound. Roadnames: > CSX-, CNW, CP, SP and > UP. Price and date of delivery t.b.a. > > Other plans: Challenger and GG1. At the Chicago Hobby > Show in September > Roco will announce another new 'modern' model. > > Roco will add new American models to the Minitank > program. > > The 'old' freight car models are to be redone with > Kadee compatible > couplers and authentic loads. > > The American style digital wrecking crane will be > offerend in CB&Q, > AT&SF, UP, PRR und NYC. > Roco will also offer an American version of the > digital turntable. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR K4 #5484 W/Disk Drivers Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 07:52:34 -0400

Group,  I have been wanting for a while to model this locomotive and I am finally going to start on it using  a Bowser kit as my starting point. I am going to try to create my own Disk drivers.  I will let you know how that works later. But A couple questions I have are, 1st the front end throttle, Does anybody make one in brass? Or should I just try to reproduce it fom plastic? Secondly there are wash out plugs on the engineer side. Where can I get them?  And lastly I was going to remotor.  Should I just get a Helix Humper or Should I get NWSL gearbox and can motor? If I go with the gearbox is it worth all the aggrevation to put it in?

 

Thanks in advance 

Sam
 

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here
----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:06:07 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Freight Symbol BF-7 in 1954 From: Jerry Britton Thread started yesterday about freight symbol BF-7 in 1954. I reported that it was shown in the Philadelphia Division ETT as of 9/54 but was not in the Schedule of Arranged Freight Service as of 12/54. I was seeking block information as well as to confirm this was an Enola to Buffalo route. One person indicated the train originated in Baltimore, another in Pot Yard. All seemed to agree the destination was Buffalo, with reefers being re-iced at Renovo. Many questioned whether or not the train came north via the Northern Central Branch or via the Port Road. Here are some answers. * The Philadelphia Division ETT shows the train scheduled past Creswell and COLA. This places it on the Port Road route. * The same document shows the train scheduled past HARRIS at 7:45 p.m. and departing Harrisburg at 10:45 p.m. This means the train never even went to Enola! Did Harrisburg have a re-icing station? I'm guessing so, to account for the three hour layover of a reefer train. Where was the re-icing station in Harrisburg? The schedule goes on to show the train passing ROCKVILLE and heading into the Williamsport Division. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 08:21:34 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR K4 #5484 W/Disk Drivers Sam sez: >Group, I have been wanting for a while to model this locomotive and I am >finally going to start on it using a Bowser kit as my starting point. I >am going to try to create my own Disk drivers. I will let you know how >that works later. But A couple questions I have are, 1st the front end >throttle, Does anybody make one in brass? Or should I just try to >reproduce it fom plastic? Secondly there are wash out plugs on the >engineer side. Where can I get them? And lastly I was going to remotor. >Should I just get a Helix Humper or Should I get NWSL gearbox and can >motor? If I go with the gearbox is it worth all the aggrevation to put it >in? Gosh, sounds like fun! I would go with Helix Humper since it costs about the same as all the NWSL parts together, is basically a "drop in solution" and is available through our very own webmeister (http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR K4 #5484 W/Disk Drivers (fwd) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 13:57:21 +0000 The disk drivers shouldn't be too difficult with a plastic overlay of the spoked wheels. there have been several articles over the years in MR showing how to do it as I recall. Good luck on the other issues. Hope it goes well. ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: "Bruce F. Smith" To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR K4 #5484 W/Disk Drivers Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 08:21:34 -0500 Sam sez: >Group, I have been wanting for a while to model this locomotive and I am >finally going to start on it using a Bowser kit as my starting point. I >am going to try to create my own Disk drivers. I will let you know how >that works later. But A couple questions I have are, 1st the front end >throttle, Does anybody make one in brass? Or should I just try to >reproduce it fom plastic? Secondly there are wash out plugs on the >engineer side. Where can I get them? And lastly I was going to remotor. >Should I just get a Helix Humper or Should I get NWSL gearbox and can >motor? If I go with the gearbox is it worth all the aggrevation to put it >in? Gosh, sounds like fun! I would go with Helix Humper since it costs about the same as all the NWSL parts together, is basically a "drop in solution" and is available through our very own webmeister (http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] New Roco models From: Matthew J Brown Date: 02 Aug 2002 07:59:17 -0700 "pgrace" writes: > I assume they will fit RP25 wheels and not NEM. > Their European models wheels have huge flanges as per NEM standards Of course: the Roco built locomotives for Proto 2000 were to RP25. They will, I'm sure, build them with their prospective market in mind -- it would be totally stupid to do otherwise. They *may*, as they've done before, make a NEM profiled version for European collectors, as they did with the USRA 2-8-8-2. -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] New PRR power Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 08:50:56 -0700 Because the PRR H-16-44's had the late Phase 1 cab with no peripheral semi-circular windows (a.k.a. late Loewy cab) and the C-Liner truck instead of AAR B, maybe they plan to do a later run corresponding to the proto later models ('51 to intro of Phase 2 "Baby TM" body)? Just hoping! Elden -----Original Message----- From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com [mailto:TGREGMRTN@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 9:39 PM To: jerry@pennsyrr.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR power Hey Yuze Gize, It is interesting to note that Atlas doesn't show the Pennsy H-15-44 as one they plan to release. I was just wondering if they would just paint it in PRR to capture the market as Bachmann decided to do. Anyone interested in a Rock Island unit... LOL LOL LOL LOL Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:02:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR K4 #5484 W/Disk Drivers Sam, list, I'm not planning on K4s 5484, but I am planning on a K4sa, probably the 612. No one makes the front end throttle case that goes on and around the upper smokebox (or at least not Bowser, Cal Scale, PSC, LeeTown, Precision Scale Co, or Cary). I'm thinking styrene will be the way to go....grin! For washout plugs, try Cary 13-271 washout plugs. I haven't thought much about the steps hanging off the front ends of the left and right running boards along the boiler. Plastic would be easy, but probably fragile. I like the Alliance Locomotive repower kits a bunch. They're very quiet and smooth, and you only have to solder two wires to be in business. I have one NWSL gearbox conversion (my model of E6s 460) that runs perfectly, and two other conversions that run indifferently (my lack of skill in these matters is a factor, I'm sure). Doug --- Sam Vastano wrote, in part: But A couple questions I have are, 1st the front end throttle, Does anybody make one in brass? Or should I just try to reproduce it fom plastic? Secondly there are wash out plugs on the engineer side. Where can I get them?  And lastly I was going to remotor.  Should I just get a Helix Humper or Should I get NWSL gearbox and can motor? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR K4 #5484 W/Disk Drivers Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 13:52:14 -0400 Doug, Thanks for the info, I have been tossing the idea of using resin to fill in the spokes on the drivers to make them disk?? Anybody else ever try this? Will the resin stick to the metal? Thanks Sam >From: Doug Kisala >To: Sam Vastano , PRR talk >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR K4 #5484 W/Disk Drivers >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:02:44 -0700 (PDT) > >Sam, list, > >I'm not planning on K4s 5484, but I am planning on a >K4sa, probably the 612. No one makes the front end >throttle case that goes on and around the upper >smokebox (or at least not Bowser, Cal Scale, PSC, >LeeTown, Precision Scale Co, or Cary). I'm thinking >styrene will be the way to go....grin! For washout >plugs, try Cary 13-271 washout plugs. > >I haven't thought much about the steps hanging off the >front ends of the left and right running boards along >the boiler. Plastic would be easy, but probably >fragile. > >I like the Alliance Locomotive repower kits a bunch. >They're very quiet and smooth, and you only have to >solder two wires to be in business. > >I have one NWSL gearbox conversion (my model of E6s >460) that runs perfectly, and two other conversions >that run indifferently (my lack of skill in these >matters is a factor, I'm sure). > >Doug > >--- Sam Vastano wrote, in part: > >But A couple questions I have are, 1st the front end >throttle, Does anybody make one in brass? Or should I >just try to reproduce it fom plastic? Secondly there >are wash out plugs on the engineer side. Where can I >get them?  And lastly I was going to >remotor.  Should I just get a Helix Humper or >Should I get NWSL gearbox and can motor? > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better >http://health.yahoo.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Sam _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Roco models Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 19:58:13 +0100 Matt, I just wish they would fit their European models with RP25 wheels. Also their inter loco connections on the Swedish iron ore loco leave a lot to be desired.... Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew J Brown" To: "pgrace" Cc: Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Roco models > "pgrace" writes: > > > I assume they will fit RP25 wheels and not NEM. > > Their European models wheels have huge flanges as per NEM standards > > Of course: the Roco built locomotives for Proto 2000 were to RP25. > They will, I'm sure, build them with their prospective market in mind > -- it would be totally stupid to do otherwise. > > They *may*, as they've done before, make a NEM profiled version for > European collectors, as they did with the USRA 2-8-8-2. > > -Matt > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 22:43:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] CL&N/DL&C/Mixed/McCullough Yard --part1_ce.2a663abb.2a7c9d4e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/1/02 11:50:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:44:56 -0500 > From: Richard Wallis > Subject: Unusual commuter service, Cincinnati-Lebanon in 1931 > > Listfellows: > > I stumbled over another timetable tidbit from the > November, 1931 "Official Guide" that may be of interest > to Lines Westers... > > It looks like an ordinary commuter schedule being > operated on the old CL&N branch from Cincinnati to > Lebanon, Ohio: a single round-trip daily except Sunday. > Inbound leaving Lebanon at 5:55 AM with arrival at the > old Court Street station at 7:30; outbound Monday-Friday > leaving Cincinnati at 5:20 Pm, and on saturday at 12:30 > PM (in the old days of 5-1/2 day workweeks, there were > usually early Saturday afternoon outbounds to accomodate > commuters). Sounds typical, except for one thing: these > trains were listed as "Mixed" trains--with freight > equipment tacked on. Imagine a commuter's reaction for > the occasional stop to set out a car;-). > > Richard Wallis > Probable reason -- not much freight traffic north of Blue Ash or so. John Hauck's Narrow Gauge in Ohio details the life and death of the CL&N. As an aside, this probably also represents the period when the track from Lebanon north to Lytle was gently abandoned in place. Hauck describes a really tough trip over this track in 1935, sort of an exploring trip with an engine and caboose. Believe this middle section was torn out in the Fifties; it was the poorest section built and stayed that way. Both ends of the Cincinnati Lebanon & Northern/Dayton Lebanon & Cincinnati were still open in the early 70's -- a southern stretch of the CL&N had been heavily industrialized circa WW1 and again WW2 and later, and was worked out of McCullough Yard in Norwood, where this former narrow gauge crossed the PRR's Richmond Branch. An expressway had wiped out the tunnel and hill down into Court Street (the southern terminus), but north of that there was still much traffic, including a GM Camaro assembly plant. Although GM is now gone, the CL&N is largely intact up to Lebanon and is operated by a short line. The north end hasn't made out so well, and is abandoned in its entirety, save one scrap from Clement on the Dayton-Xenia main south to a Delphi plant. This is part of what was PRR once designated the Clement - Hempstead Industrial Track. But the busy main route (in the Twenties) that hauled commuters NORTH out of Lebanon, through Centerville and Hempstead and down the hill into Dayton to stations at Brown Street (National Cash Register's manufacturing campus) and Washington Street (the north end, physically just south of Dayton Union Station) is but a bump on the landscape. Roger Rassche is sure to have more commentary -- he grew up near McCullough Yard and can remember the H-10-44's that smoked up the neighborhood. I have more of a tendency to remember de-turboed GP-20's at McCullough (late PC?). Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_ce.2a663abb.2a7c9d4e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/1/02 11:50:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:44:56 -0500
   From: Richard Wallis <rwallis1@earthlink.net>
Subject: Unusual commuter service, Cincinnati-Lebanon in 1931

Listfellows:

I stumbled over another timetable tidbit from the
November, 1931 "Official Guide" that may be of interest
to Lines Westers...

It looks like an ordinary commuter schedule being
operated on the old CL&N branch from Cincinnati to
Lebanon, Ohio: a single round-trip daily except Sunday.
Inbound leaving Lebanon at 5:55 AM with arrival at the
old Court Street station at 7:30; outbound Monday-Friday
leaving Cincinnati at 5:20 Pm, and on saturday at 12:30
PM (in the old days of 5-1/2 day workweeks, there were
usually early Saturday afternoon outbounds to accomodate
commuters).  Sounds typical, except for one thing: these
trains were listed as "Mixed" trains--with freight
equipment tacked on.  Imagine a commuter's reaction for
the occasional stop to set out a car;-).

Richard Wallis


Probable reason -- not much freight traffic north of Blue Ash or so.  John Hauck's Narrow Gauge in Ohio details the life and death of the CL&N.

As an aside, this probably also represents the period when the track from Lebanon north to Lytle was gently abandoned in place.  Hauck describes a really tough trip over this track in 1935, sort of an exploring trip with an engine and caboose.  Believe this middle section was torn out in the Fifties; it was the poorest section built and stayed that way.

Both ends of the Cincinnati Lebanon & Northern/Dayton Lebanon & Cincinnati were still open in the early 70's -- a southern stretch of the CL&N had been heavily industrialized circa WW1 and again WW2 and later, and was worked out of McCullough Yard in Norwood, where this former narrow gauge crossed the PRR's Richmond Branch.  An expressway had wiped out the tunnel and hill down into Court Street (the southern terminus), but north of that there was still much traffic, including a GM Camaro assembly plant.  Although GM is now gone, the CL&N is largely intact up to Lebanon and is operated by a short line.

The north end hasn't made out so well, and is abandoned in its entirety, save one scrap from Clement on the Dayton-Xenia main south to a Delphi plant.  This is part of what was PRR once designated the Clement - Hempstead Industrial Track.  But the busy main route (in the Twenties) that hauled commuters NORTH out of Lebanon, through Centerville and Hempstead and down the hill into Dayton to stations at Brown Street (National Cash Register's manufacturing campus) and Washington Street (the north end, physically just south of Dayton Union Station) is but a bump on the landscape.

Roger Rassche is sure to have more commentary -- he grew up near McCullough Yard and can remember the H-10-44's that smoked up the neighborhood.  I have more of a tendency to remember de-turboed GP-20's at McCullough (late PC?).

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_ce.2a663abb.2a7c9d4e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight Symbol BF-7 in 1954 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 22:30:01 -0500 Hi Jerry--You wrote: > > The schedule goes on to show the train passing ROCKVILLE and heading into > the Williamsport Division. > Since this is 1954, I think it would be the Susquehanna Division. Very interesting routing. Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] FA-@/FB-2 project Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 15:03:14 -0400 While on vacation I started my next project of PRR-izing a Proto 2000 FA2/B2 set of locomotives. I'm hoping someone can lead me to some clear reference photos of the tops of these beauties. Specifically I'm looking for shots of the exhaust stack circa 1955/56. If there are differences in their later years can someone explain them? Has any one had luck with the train phone stanchions that come down the front side of the A-unit? Are they made as an after market detail item? I was hoping they'd be in the Cal Scale kit but they were not. Also can anyone point me to the a good photo of how the train phone antennae comes down the back of the A unit? Thanks for all the help you've given in the past and I hope can provide again this time! Kris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Disk Drivers Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 19:44:46 -0400 Group, For anyone interested I posted a picture of the Bowser drivers I have converted to disk drivers. Here is the link.. http://groups.msn.com/Samstoys/samstrainphotos.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=36 The way I did it was to use the original spoke drivers and fill them with auto body filler(Bondo)making sure it went all the way through. Then I used an exacto knife with a strait edge I think it was a # 17 blade and carved out the bondo to the top of the spokes. After that I drilled the holes that I see in the photo of 5484. I have also used very heavy auto primer to prime them. This is the state you see them now. I used the thick auto primer to fill in any last imperfections. I will wait until tomorrow before I do my final sanding. Sam Vastano Sam _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] FA-@/FB-2 project Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 22:59:55 -0500 Hi Kris: Clear reference photos of the top of almost anything are hard to find. Pennsy Power III p. 304 may be useful. The exhaust stack was moved to the center line as the engines underwent modification from the air cooled tubocharger to a watercooled type. CalScale 190-460 mounted so the long dimension is across the car body will work. For the train phone stanchions over the windshield and down the side use Utah Pacific Antenna Mast 755-92. For the trainphone conduit down the rear of the unit I think Greg Martin has the info. I thought he had posted a photo on his site but it isn't there or else I am mistaken. Greg's article in Mainline Modeler August 1992 will be helpful to you. Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 08:10:56 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Disk Drivers >Group, > >For anyone interested I posted a picture of the Bowser drivers I have >converted to disk drivers. Here is the link.. > >http://groups.msn.com/Samstoys/samstrainphotos.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=36 > >The way I did it was to use the original spoke drivers and fill them with >auto body filler(Bondo)making sure it went all the way through. Then I used >an exacto knife with a strait edge I think it was a # 17 blade and carved >out the bondo to the top of the spokes. After that I drilled the holes that >I see in the photo of 5484. I have also used very heavy auto primer to prime >them. This is the state you see them now. I used the thick auto primer to >fill in any last imperfections. I will wait until tomorrow before I do my >final sanding. Sam, I know this is a bit late in the process...but I would make the foillowing suggestion...you could make a "master" for the disk driver fairly easily using the driver centers you have now. Once the master is made, you can create a mold in rubber and cast driver centers in either metal (my pref) or resin. Happy rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: RE: [PRR] FA-@/FB-2 project Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:17:41 -0400 Kris- Detailing FA1's can be found at the below link. Their are up close photos and they also show the conduit running down the side of the windshield. You will need to do that yourself with thin gauge wire. Their is also a super detailed T1 and HH2 for your modeling viewing. Surf around the site. It has PRR quality. http://www.xclent.clara.net/model_locos/fa1_pic1.htm The guys who do the website are from England. They love the PRR. Then again, who doesn't. Greg V -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Kris Kollar Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 3:03 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] FA-@/FB-2 project While on vacation I started my next project of PRR-izing a Proto 2000 FA2/B2 set of locomotives. I'm hoping someone can lead me to some clear reference photos of the tops of these beauties. Specifically I'm looking for shots of the exhaust stack circa 1955/56. If there are differences in their later years can someone explain them? Has any one had luck with the train phone stanchions that come down the front side of the A-unit? Are they made as an after market detail item? I was hoping they'd be in the Cal Scale kit but they were not. Also can anyone point me to the a good photo of how the train phone antennae comes down the back of the A unit? Thanks for all the help you've given in the past and I hope can provide again this time! Kris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Disk Drivers Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 09:48:57 -0400 Bruce, I would entertain the idea of doing this again it wasn't really much work. I don't really want to pull mine apart at this point. Anybody want to send me a wheel set and I would be happy to re-do them. I guess we would need both small counterweight & large counterweight. Then we could get a mold made and cast them in metal. I would be all for it. Sam >From: "Bruce F. Smith" >To: prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Disk Drivers >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 08:10:56 -0500 > > >Group, > > > >For anyone interested I posted a picture of the Bowser drivers I have > >converted to disk drivers. Here is the link.. > > > >http://groups.msn.com/Samstoys/samstrainphotos.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=36 > > > >The way I did it was to use the original spoke drivers and fill them with > >auto body filler(Bondo)making sure it went all the way through. Then I >used > >an exacto knife with a strait edge I think it was a # 17 blade and carved > >out the bondo to the top of the spokes. After that I drilled the holes >that > >I see in the photo of 5484. I have also used very heavy auto primer to >prime > >them. This is the state you see them now. I used the thick auto primer to > >fill in any last imperfections. I will wait until tomorrow before I do my > >final sanding. > >Sam, > >I know this is a bit late in the process...but I would make the foillowing >suggestion...you could make a "master" for the disk driver fairly easily >using the driver centers you have now. Once the master is made, you can >create a mold in rubber and cast driver centers in either metal (my pref) >or resin. > >Happy rails >Bruce > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > >"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin >Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Sam _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 08:52:20 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR: Query From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" I am involved in constructing a rather large two level layout with helices at both ends. Yesterday I spent about 4 hours laying tracks that pass under a 4 chute coaling facility. The two main lines pass under the center of the facility and two side tracks pass on the outsides. The question: did the PRR or other Class I operations place coaling facilities on main lines like this? The segment of PRR territory I am familiar with did not as far as I know. The layout was started by a PRR nut, so after I joined the club there are two of us. The layout is supposed to be midwestern so there will be PRR, NYC, IC, and a host of other road names represented. A large section of the East Broad Top is also under construction. Checkout the website: www.galvrail.org to get an idea of what is going on. Yesterday I ran my coal train on the layout for the first time. The pair of Erie-builts hauled 64 cars with no problem, even up the helix on one end. Now all I have to do is get my I-1 engines done and I will really be in business. There is an open house on August 24 from 11 to 5 for NMRA Division 8 (Lone Star) for those of you in the Houston-Galveston area. The web site has directions on how to get there. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 10:00:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query From: Jerry Britton On 8/5/02 9:52 AM, Donald E. Harper, Jr (harperd@tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: > I am involved in constructing a rather large two level layout with helices > at both ends. Yesterday I spent about 4 hours laying tracks that pass > under a 4 chute coaling facility. The two main lines pass under the center > of the facility and two side tracks pass on the outsides. The question: > did the PRR or other Class I operations place coaling facilities on main > lines like this? Absolutely! The PRR had such facilities, though larger, at THORN and DENHOLM. I seem to recall "Triumph I" showing photos of one that was damaged by one of the floods along the Conemaugh. So there would be three examples. Even the Northern Central Branch had one (two tracks) around Hanover Junction! > The segment of PRR territory I am familiar with did not > as far as I know. You didn't say what specific territory you are modeling... > > The layout was started by a PRR nut, so after I joined the club there are > two of us. The layout is supposed to be midwestern so there will be PRR, > NYC, IC, and a host of other road names represented. A large section of the > East Broad Top is also under construction. Checkout the website: > www.galvrail.org > to get an idea of what is going on. > > Yesterday I ran my coal train on the layout for the first time. The pair of > Erie-builts hauled 64 cars with no problem, even up the helix on one end. > Now all I have to do is get my I-1 engines done and I will really be in > business. > > There is an open house on August 24 from 11 to 5 for NMRA Division 8 (Lone > Star) for those of you in the Houston-Galveston area. The web site has > directions on how to get there. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 09:14:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Thanks Jerry. I came onto this project in March, about a year and a half after it was started, so am still not clear if we are really modeling a specific territory. I'm having lunch with two of the guys who were involved from the start, so will find out. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- >From: Jerry Britton >To: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" , PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query >Date: Mon, 05 Aug, 2002, 9:00 > > On 8/5/02 9:52 AM, Donald E. Harper, Jr (harperd@tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: > >> I am involved in constructing a rather large two level layout with helices >> at both ends. Yesterday I spent about 4 hours laying tracks that pass >> under a 4 chute coaling facility. The two main lines pass under the center >> of the facility and two side tracks pass on the outsides. The question: >> did the PRR or other Class I operations place coaling facilities on main >> lines like this? > > Absolutely! The PRR had such facilities, though larger, at THORN and > DENHOLM. I seem to recall "Triumph I" showing photos of one that was damaged > by one of the floods along the Conemaugh. So there would be three examples. > Even the Northern Central Branch had one (two tracks) around Hanover > Junction! > >> The segment of PRR territory I am familiar with did not >> as far as I know. > > You didn't say what specific territory you are modeling... >> >> The layout was started by a PRR nut, so after I joined the club there are >> two of us. The layout is supposed to be midwestern so there will be PRR, >> NYC, IC, and a host of other road names represented. A large section of the >> East Broad Top is also under construction. Checkout the website: >> www.galvrail.org >> to get an idea of what is going on. >> >> Yesterday I ran my coal train on the layout for the first time. The pair of >> Erie-builts hauled 64 cars with no problem, even up the helix on one end. >> Now all I have to do is get my I-1 engines done and I will really be in >> business. >> >> There is an open house on August 24 from 11 to 5 for NMRA Division 8 (Lone >> Star) for those of you in the Houston-Galveston area. The web site has >> directions on how to get there. >> >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 10:22:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query From: Jerry Britton On 8/5/02 10:14 AM, Donald E. Harper, Jr (harperd@tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: > I came onto this project in March, about a year and a half after it was > started, so am still not clear if we are really modeling a specific > territory. I'm having lunch with two of the guys who were involved from the > start, so will find out. > George Pierson did an excellent job of modeling the DENHOLM coal wharf. His layout is on my site at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/ There are photos of the coal wharf. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 10:28:38 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] FA-@/FB-2 project Kris, I put trainfone antennae on FAs some years ago. For the antenna extensions which run down the side I used the antenna posts with the bolted square top. I forget who made these (Carey?), but I believe they are the type used on GP30s. I used only the top part with the post cut off. -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Kris Kollar wrote: > While on vacation I started my next project of PRR-izing a Proto 2000 FA2/B2 > set of locomotives. I'm hoping someone can lead me to some clear reference > photos of the tops of these beauties. Specifically I'm looking for shots of > the exhaust stack circa 1955/56. If there are differences in their later > years can someone explain them? Has any one had luck with the train phone > stanchions that come down the front side of the A-unit? Are they made as an > after market detail item? I was hoping they'd be in the Cal Scale kit but > they were not. Also can anyone point me to the a good photo of how the > train phone antennae comes down the back of the A unit? > > Thanks for all the help you've given in the past and I hope can provide > again this time! > > Kris > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR: Query Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:44:35 -0400 Post review of George Pierson's Denholm coal wharf, did Denholm have a track for hoppers above it? If so, was their a long ascending trestle to connect to the yard? I thought Denholm had a coal bucket that carried the coal to the top of the wharf. What about Thorndale? Anyone know how coal was transported to the top of the wharf? Greg V. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 10:23 AM To: Donald E. Harper, Jr; PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query On 8/5/02 10:14 AM, Donald E. Harper, Jr (harperd@tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: > I came onto this project in March, about a year and a half after it was > started, so am still not clear if we are really modeling a specific > territory. I'm having lunch with two of the guys who were involved from the > start, so will find out. > George Pierson did an excellent job of modeling the DENHOLM coal wharf. His layout is on my site at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/ There are photos of the coal wharf. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 10:50:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query From: Jerry Britton On 8/5/02 10:44 AM, Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr. (gregv@NetReach.Net) wrote: > Post review of George Pierson's Denholm coal wharf, did Denholm have a track > for hoppers above it? If so, was their a long ascending trestle to connect > to the yard? I thought Denholm had a coal bucket that carried the coal to > the top of the wharf. > Denholm had wide sweeping S curves that went into the woods and down a slope to meet the tracks in either direction. There are published photos of full-size steam locos pushing regular hoppers across the trestle. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:52:55 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query Don asked >I am involved in constructing a rather large two level layout with helices >at both ends. Yesterday I spent about 4 hours laying tracks that pass >under a 4 chute coaling facility. The two main lines pass under the center >of the facility and two side tracks pass on the outsides. The question: >did the PRR or other Class I operations place coaling facilities on main >lines like this? The segment of PRR territory I am familiar with did not >as far as I know. Don, As Jerry said, the answer is YES! I have seen a number of photos in my "coffee table RR books". Your subsequent comments about location are important too...In general, coaling facilities were located spanning mainlines if they were intermediate coaling stops that a majority of locomotives would use...for example before a long grade so that a stop would not be needed on the hill, or it no service facilities were needed. Many of these "intermediate" facilities were retired by the use of larger tenders. >From your description, it sounds almost as if you are using the Tichy coaling tower. As Jerry mentions, Denholm and Thorndale had coal wharfs, which were much lower structures, but which were designed to handle up to 12 tracks in Thorndale's case. There are a number of examples of concrete towers such as the Tichy one (although I'm not sure if they are the same) located on PRR mains, mostly I think on Lines West. The coaling tower on your layout should be a required stop for steamers (make sure they take sand and water too...usually water plugs would be located to either side of the tower). Diseasels should have a restricted speed order for the area around the coal tower. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:18:52 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query >On 8/5/02 10:44 AM, Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr. (gregv@NetReach.Net) wrote: > >> Post review of George Pierson's Denholm coal wharf, did Denholm have a track >> for hoppers above it? If so, was their a long ascending trestle to connect >> to the yard? I thought Denholm had a coal bucket that carried the coal to >> the top of the wharf. Jerry replied >Denholm had wide sweeping S curves that went into the woods and down a slope >to meet the tracks in either direction. There are published photos of >full-size steam locos pushing regular hoppers across the trestle. Ditto for Thorndale. The switch was off the south side of the main, west of the coaling wharf, and allowed full sized hoppers to be pushed on top of the wharf where they were dumped into the holding bins. Photos of Thorndale can be found in Triumph III (IIRC ). One area of discussion was the date Thorndale was taken out of service. The video Pennsy Steam and Electric Years, vol 1 has clear shots of Thorndale in service with electric catenary strung, meaning it lasted past 1938. It was not torn down until MUCH later. George pointed out to me that the Denholm/Thorndale wharfs were "modular"...that is they were set up with 3 track bays...now wouldn't it be neat if someone offered a kit that could be built in increments of 3 bays... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] GP-9B's Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:26:53 +0000 There are what appear to be conflciting black and white pictures of GP-9B's regarding the porthole window. Some look like the rim has chromed or brass finish that is several inches wide while others look like the rim is DGLE. Since I have not seen a color picture does anybody know what the original color for the porthole window rim is? Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:31:52 -0400 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] Railtongs Several weeks ago during discussions of work equipment I mentioned railtongs. Well in routing around the "stuff" today I found them. They are part of a set by Custom Finishes, #7283, w/ 39" magnet, hoistblock w/hook and railtongs. Sorry for the delay. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR: Query Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:42:11 -0400 Bruce- If a train were heading inbound to Broad Street, would that have been a facing point switch before the engine reached the tower? Also, do you know if the incline was a trestle or an embankment? Doesn't the main line ascend in elevation at Thorndale towards Parkesburg? I believe that is why the trestle was there, to coal engines for the push. Greg Vlassopoulos -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Bruce F. Smith Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:19 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query >On 8/5/02 10:44 AM, Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr. (gregv@NetReach.Net) wrote: > >> Post review of George Pierson's Denholm coal wharf, did Denholm have a track >> for hoppers above it? If so, was their a long ascending trestle to connect >> to the yard? I thought Denholm had a coal bucket that carried the coal to >> the top of the wharf. Jerry replied >Denholm had wide sweeping S curves that went into the woods and down a slope >to meet the tracks in either direction. There are published photos of >full-size steam locos pushing regular hoppers across the trestle. Ditto for Thorndale. The switch was off the south side of the main, west of the coaling wharf, and allowed full sized hoppers to be pushed on top of the wharf where they were dumped into the holding bins. Photos of Thorndale can be found in Triumph III (IIRC ). One area of discussion was the date Thorndale was taken out of service. The video Pennsy Steam and Electric Years, vol 1 has clear shots of Thorndale in service with electric catenary strung, meaning it lasted past 1938. It was not torn down until MUCH later. George pointed out to me that the Denholm/Thorndale wharfs were "modular"...that is they were set up with 3 track bays...now wouldn't it be neat if someone offered a kit that could be built in increments of 3 bays... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:01:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GP-9B's --part1_71.2373d867.2a801788_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/5/2002 12:36:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ndbprr@att.net writes: > There are what appear to be conflciting black and white > pictures of GP-9B's regarding the porthole window. Some > look like the rim has chromed or brass finish that is > several inches wide while others look like the rim is > DGLE. Since I have not seen a color picture does > anybody know what the original color for the porthole > window rim is? Thanks, Norm Bell > > Norm, could these photo reflect units that are new vs. one that have gone through the paint shop? Most of the time railroad shop didn't bother with masking off small details like trim when it was time for a repaint. FWIW Todd Horton --part1_71.2373d867.2a801788_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/5/2002 12:36:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ndbprr@att.net writes:


There are what appear to be conflciting black and white
pictures of GP-9B's regarding the porthole window.  Some
look like the rim has chromed or brass finish that is
several inches wide while others look like the rim is
DGLE.  Since I have not seen a color picture does
anybody know what the original color for the porthole
window rim is?  Thanks, Norm Bell



Norm, could these photo reflect units that are new vs. one that have gone through the paint shop? Most of the time railroad shop didn't bother with masking off small details like trim when it was time for a repaint. FWIW Todd Horton --part1_71.2373d867.2a801788_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:37:48 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] Thorndale coaling was [PRR]:Query Greg, >If a train were heading inbound to Broad Street, would that have been a >facing point switch before the engine reached the tower? Yes...nice track diagram in Triumph 3. Unfortunately, the interlocking diagram on Mark Bej's site is too new to show it! However, page 15 of the pdf of the track chart on Jerry's site http://kc.pennsyrr.com/maps/downloads/tc_phil_19xxA.pdf does show it nicely...if you can see the details ! It looks like the wharf is about MP35.8 and the switch is around MP37. >Also, do you know >if the incline was a trestle or an embankment? Embankment...99% sure on that. When the Thorndale wharf was removed from service the service track was cut off, but the wharf stood for years. >Doesn't the main line ascend >in elevation at Thorndale towards Parkesburg? I believe that is why the >trestle was there, to coal engines for the push. Actually, it goes up in both directions! In fact, the push was as often as not needed in the Paoli direction. The push could be either steam or electric (this was after all, the home of the FF2s!) Note too that trains coming from Park off the A&S had also just climbed out of the Susquehanna river valley from Columbia and needed to replenish coal as well. Once the wharf was removed from service, the PRR created a small helper engine service facility in Thorndale yard. This consisted of two Fairbanks-Morse "ash hoist" towers between the two helper tracks, one facing each track...These towers were "catalog items" that railroads ordered and PRR used for ash hoists and coal hoists in a number of loacation. They had an undertrack unloading area, a skip that was hoisted up and dumped and a chute feeding the next track over. AFAIK, at Thorndale, one was used as an ash hoist, but the other had a hopper of coal parked over the undertrack bin, and it was used to coal the helpers. Thus at Thorndale, the siding off the helper track held a hopper of coal for unloading and an "empty" hopper for ash loading...L1s on the helper track could dump their ashes and get a fresh load of coal. These towers are often mistaken for sand towers, but really, they don't look like sand towers at all! I'm hoping to convince Overland to offer these in HO in brass . Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:47:57 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR: re: Query From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" The Galveston Model Railroad layout is a free lance section of the United States sort of centered Chicago and heading both east to western Pennsylvania and west to wherever. So I guess artistic license runs the program. This coaling tower I'm installing the tracks for is within 10 car lengths of a ruling grade of about 2.5 to 3%. I sure would hate to be the engineman who had to stop and take on coal and then head up that grade. If you run a train at scale speed, it takes almost an hour to make a complete circuit. I don't remember the conversion to scale time - is it 7 to 1? Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 11:50:20 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query --- Jerry Britton wrote: [...] > I seem to recall "Triumph I" showing photos of one... Pages 230-231. Rather different in design from Denholm, but a coal facility extending over main tracks none-the-less. > ...that was damaged by one of the floods along the Conemaugh. The 1936 flood, a/k/a The St. Patrick's Day Flood. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 15:36:10 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] FA-@/FB-2 project > Kris- > > Detailing FA1's can be found at the below link. Their are up close photos and they also show the conduit running down the side of the windshield< Hey Yuze Gize... The photo reference is for the FA-1 (Walthers) and not the Life Like FA-2's Kris is working on and there is a difference. I did help john with his FA-1 project and it can be used as the basis for the Life Like FA-1's as well. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 15:40:21 -0400 From: Zak Subject: Re: [PRR] FA-@/FB-2 project Hi, all, Try Cal-Scale part #190-402 - Antenna Support System - F Units (12/bag), and Model Supplies part #2506 - brass wire - .019" diameter (10/bag). Zak ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 15:54:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query In a message dated 8/5/02 10:53:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gregv@NetReach.Net writes: << What about Thorndale? Anyone know how coal was transported to the top of the wharf? Greg V. >> Greg there was a track that curved to the south and ended up on the wharf. If you get up to Thorndale and go to the west end by the old PRR toolhouse on Rt 30 and take a look at the bridges next to the toolhouse the back bridge was for the track to the coal wharf. ---------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:02:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Query Greg Thorndale was in a bowl between Paoli and Parkesburg. They pushed to Paoli, Parkesburg and up the P&T to I believe Howellville. At Howellville there was a center siding called the back off siding which allowed the pushers to cross over and return to Thorn. Back then a lot of EB coal was going to the piers at South Amboy via Thorn, the P&T, Trenton cutoff. In the steam years it was one of the last places in this area to see M-1's as they frequently powered the coal trains. - Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] '68 Mustangs westbound on PRR Greetings list...... While watching some home movies shot in late 1967 of PRR freights on Middle and Pittsburgh Div, I notice a TrucTrain with a block of autoracks on the end of this train. Not so odd. But these racks were hauling brand new 1968 Ford Mustangs. Question is: Where would the PRR pick up new '68 Mustangs? Pot Yard maybe? I only know of one Ford Plant on the PRR (in NJ). I didn't think Mustangs were built in the Eastern U.S. Appreciate any info on this subject. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 21:42:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] '68 Mustangs westbound on PRR --part1_ad.21517b30.2a808385_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You don't say which direction the trains were traveling but I am guessing westbound? Chris Baker chrisandbelton2@aol.com --part1_ad.21517b30.2a808385_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You don't say which direction the trains were traveling but I am guessing westbound?

Chris Baker
chrisandbelton2@aol.com --part1_ad.21517b30.2a808385_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Evans" Subject: Re: [PRR] '68 Mustangs westbound on PRR Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:45:07 -0700 Was the train westbound or eastbound? Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA ----- Original Message ----- > While watching some home movies shot in late 1967 of PRR freights > on Middle and Pittsburgh Div, I notice a TrucTrain with a block of > autoracks on the end of this train. Not so odd. But these racks were > hauling brand new 1968 Ford Mustangs. > > Question is: Where would the PRR pick up new '68 Mustangs? [snip] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 22:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] '68 Mustangs westbound on PRR Those 1968 Mustangs are headed westbound on PRR mainline in Altoona. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 21:03:09 -0700 Subject: [PRR] The Bells of PRR Steam Hi, I've always painted the bells on my PRR steam models with brass paint, on the assumption that the prototype bells were regularly polished. And if one looks in the PRRT&HS painting guide pamphlet published many years ago, one learns that in the late 1920's instructions to loco crews did specifically say that the bells were to be polished daily. However, while looking thru the color photos in "The Many Faces of the Pennsy K4" I noticed that the bells in these color photos all seemed to be black, or really dark-colored in any case. Now the color photos are all from the 1950's and I thought that perhaps the bells were not polished any more by that late date. So I looked thru some older b&w photos, looking to see if the bells appeared to be as dark as the rest of the loco, or if they were lighter than the loco. Well, it seems that in most b&w photos, the bells appear equally as dark as the rest of the loco. In some b&w pics, the bells do appear to be significantly lighter in color, but in many, maybe even in most, they appear to be relatively dark. So, I'm left to wonder, what colors are other modelers using to paint their PRR steam loco bells? My era is 1929, and I'm sure this may affect things since loco maintenance changed over the course of time. Also, wether a loco was used in freight or passenger service may have some impact as well. I'm really not looking for the definitive answer, as there probably isn't one - just fishing for some "paint opinions" from others... - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] '68 Mustangs westbound on PRR Greetings list...... While watching some home movies shot in late 1967 of PRR freights on Middle and Pittsburgh Div, I notice a TrucTrain with a block of autoracks on the end of this train. Not so odd. But these racks were hauling brand new 1968 Ford Mustangs. Question is: Where would the PRR pick up new '68 Mustangs? Pot Yard maybe? I only know of one Ford Plant on the PRR (in NJ). I didn't think Mustangs were built in the Eastern U.S. Appreciate any info on this subject. Dave Hopson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/it_ffB/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Evans" Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:45:07 -0700 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] '68 Mustangs westbound on PRR Was the train westbound or eastbound? Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/it_ffB/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 22:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] '68 Mustangs westbound on PRR Those 1968 Mustangs are headed westbound on PRR mainline in Altoona. Dave ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/09Lw8C/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 23:12:29 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] '68 Mustangs westbound on PRR Dave Hopson asked: Where would the PRR pick up new '68 Mustangs? Pot Yard maybe? I only know of one Ford Plant on the PRR (in NJ). I didn't think Mustangs were built in the Eastern U.S.. 1965 - 1970 Mustangs were built in three plants: Dearborn MI Metuchen NJ (now Edison after town boundaries were redrawn) San Jose CA (Milpitas, now the Great Mall of the Bay Area) Since the train was westbound on the Pittsburgh Division, it looks like your autoracks came from New Jersey. Ben Hom Owner, 1968 Ford Mustang Coupe, Vintage Burgundy, 289-4V ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/it_ffB/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 07:15:59 -0400 From: TWRimer@uss.com Subject: [PRR] Re: GP-9b I have a black & white photo of a GP-9b from the mid 60's taken at Phillipston, Pa. that shows the porthole windows to be the same color as the body of the locomotive. I've seen these b units at Pitcairn, too, but have never seen one with brass or chrome window frames. Tom Rimer twrimer@uss.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:36:09 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] The Bells of PRR Steam --part1_17b.c769c35.2a811cb9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Claus & List, The depression appears to be the era when the highly polished locomotives disappeared. Photos prior to this era usually show light colored (polished) bells, whistles, headlamp rims, rods and such. After the depression, especially during WWII, the light colored accessories are now dark colored. Assume the cost of labor, lack of capitol and changes in management philosophy reduced maintenance routines to the essentials. Only the passenger fleets, "specials", and back-shopped locos appeared after that time with the brass polished. A very noteable example of this is the competition between the Pennsylvania RR and the Reading RR for the Philadelphia/Camden to the New Jersey shore resorts business. Once the depression hit, both roads quickly lost a lot of the polish on their trains and it was totally gone within a year of their forced marriage into the Pennnsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines. Evan Leisey --part1_17b.c769c35.2a811cb9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Claus & List,

  The depression appears to be the era when the highly polished locomotives disappeared.   Photos prior to this era usually show light colored (polished) bells, whistles, headlamp rims, rods and such.  After the depression, especially during WWII,  the light colored accessories are now dark colored.   Assume the cost of labor, lack of capitol and changes in management philosophy reduced maintenance routines to the essentials.

 Only the passenger fleets, "specials", and back-shopped locos appeared after that time with the brass polished.

  A very noteable example of this is the competition between the Pennsylvania RR and the Reading RR for the Philadelphia/Camden to the New Jersey shore resorts business.  Once the depression hit,  both roads quickly lost a lot of the polish on their trains and it was totally gone within a year of their forced marriage into the Pennnsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines.

 Evan Leisey --part1_17b.c769c35.2a811cb9_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] The Bells of PRR Steam Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:37:06 -0400 Hi Claus, My weathering techniques dictate I start with an "out of the shop" paint job and then weather from there. (just like the real thing). That means I start with a shiney brass bell. Then in the course of weathering, the bell accumulates road dirt and soot (just like the real thing). The final result is a brass bell considerably dulled and streaked. Upon close examination you can see the brass through the weathering but the overall dulling effect closely duplicates what you notice in the photographs. Hope this helps. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Claus Schlund [mailto:schlund@cwnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:03 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] The Bells of PRR Steam Hi, I've always painted the bells on my PRR steam models with brass paint, on the assumption that the prototype bells were regularly polished. And if one looks in the PRRT&HS painting guide pamphlet published many years ago, one learns that in the late 1920's instructions to loco crews did specifically say that the bells were to be polished daily. However, while looking thru the color photos in "The Many Faces of the Pennsy K4" I noticed that the bells in these color photos all seemed to be black, or really dark-colored in any case. Now the color photos are all from the 1950's and I thought that perhaps the bells were not polished any more by that late date. So I looked thru some older b&w photos, looking to see if the bells appeared to be as dark as the rest of the loco, or if they were lighter than the loco. Well, it seems that in most b&w photos, the bells appear equally as dark as the rest of the loco. In some b&w pics, the bells do appear to be significantly lighter in color, but in many, maybe even in most, they appear to be relatively dark. So, I'm left to wonder, what colors are other modelers using to paint their PRR steam loco bells? My era is 1929, and I'm sure this may affect things since loco maintenance changed over the course of time. Also, wether a loco was used in freight or passenger service may have some impact as well. I'm really not looking for the definitive answer, as there probably isn't one - just fishing for some "paint opinions" from others... - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. **************************************************************************** This e-mail and any attachment may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or subject to copyright belonging to Conectiv or its subsidiaries (Conectiv). This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the person to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Conectiv policy expressly prohibits employees from making Defamatory or offensive statements and infringing any copyright or any other legal right by email communications. Conectiv will not accept any liability in respect of such communications. The employee responsible will be personally liable for any damages or other liability so arising. **************************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this