From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] (LOCO) MP:229 Lists, Thanks guys for all the email help concerning the MP 229's and the assignment for the loco I had in question. The loco in question was C1 6638. The MP229's I have showed service at Wilmngton De in 1931. Later the 6638 went to the Philly Div. as my MP 229 of 1943 shows. Appearently it stayed there til late 1949. Then is not shown on any later MP 229. So one can assume it was dropped and later cut up or sold for scrap and cut up from someone else in 1950. ........Thanks again for the help....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] (LOCO) MP:229 Lists, Thanks guys for all the email help concerning the MP 229's and the assignment for the loco I had in question. The loco in question was C1 6638. The MP229's I have showed service at Wilmngton De in 1931. Later the 6638 went to the Philly Div. as my MP 229 of 1943 shows. Appearently it stayed there til late 1949. Then is not shown on any later MP 229. So one can assume it was dropped and later cut up or sold for scrap and cut up from someone else in 1950. ........Thanks again for the help....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Township Sues Red Caboose Motel Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:23:58 -0500 Try New Orleans. The last time I booked for a convention, the first night's charge appeared on my company credit card, a full month before I finally arrived. -----Original Message----- From: gregv@netreach.net [mailto:gregv@netreach.net] Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 8:25 PM To: Lewis J. Matt PhD; Jerry Britton; PRR-Talk LIST; gregv@netreach.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Township Sues Red Caboose Motel I found it odd that they asked for the full room charge in advance as a room hold. I work in the meeting/event planning industry and was never asked to pay in-full prior to receiving services. Yes, I am in the process of collecting my money via the credit card company. I am going to make one last attempt/phone call to collect before filing. It is a shame. It is a unique venue. When Conrail was selling off the N-5's, they were asking scrap value, I heard around 2,000-2,500. They would evan ship it anywhere on their system just to get rid of them. I hope they work out the problem, but everyone be aware of the circumstances. Thanks Greg Vlassopoulos > I assume when you say you are "in dispute" that you have filed an official > dispute form with your credit card company. This should be an effective way > to get your money back. You can also file a claim in small claims court > through a local PA magistrate and sue them for the charge and court costs > (about $95.00). BTW, the owner used to be John Denlinger. > > The info you supplied in this letter indicates that the caboose lodge had a > septic malfunction that went uncorrected and then contaminated their own > well. As a certified Sewage Enforcement Officer for PA, I know how > reluctant a municipality is to start any action against a violator, it must > be a significant violation (dangerous to the community and the party make NO > effort to repair. Should give everyone something to think about, for ever > staying at that motel. If they avoid repairing something that dangerous, > what other maintenance has been deferred or neglected? > > Lew > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Jerry Britton" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" > > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 5:47 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Township Sues Red Caboose Motel > > > > I expected to stay there for Pennsy Days. I cancelled well in advanced to > the > > cancellation cutoff date. The Red Caboose Motel never reversed charges on > my > > credit card. I am now in a dispute for 109.89? Who knows. They blamed > the > > non-response to their nitrate H2O problems, only they were shut down two > weeks > > after my initial request for my money return. Now where do I go for my > money? > > > > Greg Vlassopoulos > > > > > > > Headline from today... (http://www.msnbc.com/local/wgal/A1238905.asp) > > > > > > Township Sues Red Caboose Motel > > > > > > LANCASTER, Pa., 10:26 a.m. EDT June 26, 2002 - There is more trouble for > > > Lancaster County's Red Caboose Motel located near Strasburg. > > > > > > Paradise Township is suing the motel, saying it failed to maintain its > > > sewage treatment system after a sewer leak on the lawn. > > > > > > The state Department of Environmental Protection shut down the motel 13 > days > > > ago for not fixing unhealthy nitrate levels in its drinking water. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:52:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Motels Try Athens Ohio (Ohio University) for events like parents weekend homecomming and graduation - all local rooms are sold out by noon on the Monday following the previous one (a year less a couple of days ahead) It is also typical that the charges appear on your credit card statement eleven months prior to your arrival. (Good Luck with a refund if you try to cancel - they WILL, however, resell the room) I assune PSU events - and other big schools in small towns are the same way. Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:33:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Sullivan Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/29/02 Just curious, what exactly is that K4 sitting on? Transfer table? Turntable? - Ben Sullivan > Subject: K4 Photo, > From: "Gary Mittner" > Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:49:00 -0400 (EDT) > > List, > > This isn't an ebay sales pitch but go look at this item if you wish. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2116640349. I was > alerted of this by someone who had a question on it's future (wondered > if it was scrapped afterwards) of this K4. Looks pretty bad. But, > according to records this particular K4 wasn't cut up til 1947. 13 more > years of faithful service! Look at that damage. New boiler, drivers? and > cylindesr to say the least was required for repair. Just goes to show > you how the Pennsy felt about their #1 mainline Passenger Class Loco. > All but the most severe of wrecks could take out a K4 for good....Gary __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest (K4 Photo) Ben, Actually it looks like the K4 is sitting on a bridge. Notice the famous PRR Stantions? .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:58:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Sullivan Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/29/02 Alex & list, Here's a link to some info on the "half-GG1". Pretty wild. http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/prr.html#g-half Enjoy, Ben Sullivan > Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 Photo, > From: "Alex Charyna" > Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:38:56 -0800 > > Speaking of chopped up GG1s, > I read somewhere (maybe Pennsy Electric Years), > that there was a GG1 cut in half, and used for a > snow plow. I think it was based out of Wilmington > through the 80s.... Don't recall the number. > > Does anyone have pictures of this thing? > Did it get an official name? GG1/2? > > thanks.. > -alex __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] (PRR) Covered Hoppers Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:23:09 -0700 Hi guys, Although I have not devoted nearly as much time to this as I should, I thought I could add the following: The GLe is available from Railworks in both early and late (stamped rib) models. It is fine. Only a handful were still around in the 60's, but many in company sand service. The H30(a?) is now re-issued from F&C and is a MUCH nicer kit than the one previously available. You can also get one from Oriental in brass, plus the std H30. You need lots of H30's! The H32: ditto for the resin kit. The H33 you can kitbash, but is more like a scratchbuild, from the MDC 2-bay covered hopper. I did one and it turned out nice, but OUCH, lots of work. New roof, side stakes, complete ends, etc. The H34 is very do-able from the Atlas, but Rick's comments are well-taken. I did a H34 (no subseries) from the MDC kit with major re-work, but it does do the early narrow hatch model. You can susbstitute DA hatches and outlets now for better detail, plus the roofwalk from Plano. The H40 is do-able from ConCor, Walthers or Eastern Car Works. Each one of these kits have issues. There is an Overland brass not PRR specific, but it is nice. The H41 could be done as a kit bash of the above kits. Same issues apply. The H42 can be done with the Atlas model, and they have even done one with PRR paint. Note the PRR details, though. The H44 on are beyond my era, but someone can address these.' If anyone is interested in talking about these guys, drop me a line. Have a good one! elden ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AHARTPRR137@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 16:06:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest (K4 Photo) --part1_cb.2466b1d3.2a52102e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/02 2:53:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: > Ben, > > Actually it looks like the K4 is sitting on a bridge. Notice the > famous PRR Stantions? .....Gary > Hi Gary and others, The K4s is sitting on a bridge...a turntable bridge. Note the tracks in the foreground leading to the pit and the support structure for the electric supply above the engine. The PRR stantions were found on most Pennsy turntables. Best regards, Andy Hart, PRRT&HS 92 P.S. I really enjoy your website. --part1_cb.2466b1d3.2a52102e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/02 2:53:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mittner@webtv.net writes:


Ben,

     Actually it looks like the K4 is sitting on a bridge. Notice the
famous PRR Stantions? .....Gary


Hi Gary and others,

The K4s is sitting on a bridge...a turntable bridge.  Note the tracks in the foreground leading to the pit and the support structure for the electric supply above the engine.
The PRR stantions were found on most Pennsy turntables.

Best regards,

Andy Hart, PRRT&HS 92

P.S. I really enjoy your website. --part1_cb.2466b1d3.2a52102e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:11:10 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Atlas H34 cars Rick Tipton writes in reply: > In a message dated 6/27/02 8:18:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > > Atlas did the H34 subclasses Rick goes on to comment... >To be exact, Atlas has the later PS-2 2003cf body, and so can only do H34C(first or second order)and H34D. Model Die Casting's PS-2 offering is still the closest to H34,H34A, and H34B.< I will likely stick my foot in my mouth as I am writting this from work away from the article I did in Mainline Modeler that broke down each offering by class and the needed changes for each. But I believe if my memory serves me, the only car that can be accurately model from the MDC kit is the H34 and H34A (? Yikes). Rememeber the H34 series of cars came from Pullman and the rest cars were built in company shops from kits. Thus there were some differences from the mainstream... The striking difference was the spacing of the roof hatches/loading hatches. The Pulllman built cars (H34) were spaced closer toward the center of the car and the cubic capacity was less 1958 cubic. By spreading the hatches out, the cars could actually load more product closer to the slope sheet thus adding to the cubic footage. Neet trick. The H34D is very close to the Atlas car (with mod's) and ran on Crown trucks from the dismantled H21's. The H34c may be close as well but without the drawings I did for the > > Believe my Atlas 3-pack includes one H34C in SK1b lettering, one in SK2a, and one in PK. > > Rick Tipton > Louisville KY > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West< If you read the article many of the questions are answered and some are left wide open, such as the use of black roofs on some of the H34 cars. Could this just be the way Pullman delievered them, anti-slip car cement, or were they assigned to some special service...? The answers are gone with the men who ran the PRR? Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 15:33:16 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] Camp car yellow Howdy, Since I model the period prior to the introduction of Camp car Yeller for MOW equipment, and Al Buchan suggested yellow as the color for crawler cranse...I was wondering if any of you had a suggestion for an appropriate match in Poly Scale (since that is what my local shop has and what I like to use!) TIA Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] FF2's Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 21:06:53 +0000 Just turned over my Cedco calendar to July which is a picture of an FF2 at Thorn. I assume the "big Liz" was class FF1. Is this correct? thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 16:24:10 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] FF2's >Just turned over my Cedco calendar to July which is a >picture of an FF2 at Thorn. I assume the "big Liz" was >class FF1. Is this correct? thanks, Norm Bell Yep, the FF1 was "Big Liz" and the FF2 were the Ex Great Northern electrics. Happy Rails, Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 19:29:17 -0400 From: Chris Brandt Subject: [PRR] P5 #4700 I paid a visit to P5 #4700 and GG1 #4916 on Friday at the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis. Neither is looking to well, although they are under a roof. http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net/020629 -- Chris Brandt cobrandt@eclipse.net http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 20:21:41 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Crestline roundhouse up-date From: prrq2 List, The Crestline Roundhouse Preservation Society has been busy during the past couple of months. They have been fine tuning their Mission Statement, approved the By-laws, and discussing many topics as to the best path to take to save and preserve Crestline's PRR roundhouse. The big news came earlier today. The CRPS is now recognized by the State of Ohio as a non-profit corporation. This takes them one step closer to becoming an IRS 501(c)(3) tax exempt corporation. As you all know, this is the easy part, but a step in the right direction! Check the Preservation page on my web site http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ for more info. -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RTSILLER@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 22:01:22 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re:Covered Hoppers --part1_169.fec14a7.2a526372_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm about 3/4 of the way through with my F&C H30a. It's a real nice kit but there is a bit of work to be done on the roof to match the prototype. From all of the pictures I've seen (Summer '02 Keystone and April '01 Mainline Modeler) the roof (except for the seams) and the hatches are both flat. The grinder and sanding sticks take care of raised sections of the roof but it's added work. Please correct me if I am mistaken about the prototype roof layout. The Summer Keystone was the first time I got a good look at the load instruction plate layout. Does anyone make Load Instruction Plates or Trust Plates in HO scale. Since they are painted the same color as the car, a flat piece of styrene and a decal doesn't cut it. Rick --part1_169.fec14a7.2a526372_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm about 3/4 of the way through with my F&C H30a.  It's a real nice kit but there is a bit of work to be done on the roof to match the prototype. From all of the pictures I've seen (Summer '02 Keystone and April '01 Mainline Modeler) the roof (except for the seams) and the hatches are both flat.  The grinder and sanding sticks take care of raised sections of the roof but it's added work.  Please correct me if I am mistaken about the prototype roof layout.

The Summer Keystone was the first time I got a good look at the load instruction plate layout.  Does anyone make Load Instruction Plates or Trust Plates in HO scale.  Since they are painted the same color as the car, a flat piece of styrene and a decal doesn't cut it.  

Rick --part1_169.fec14a7.2a526372_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 21:21:56 -0700 (PDT) From: andy mulhollen Subject: [PRR] Altoona Update Greetings to the List, Well its true. There are trees falling at the Curve. The guys have already cleared a large part of the first window on the east side of the curve. I was up to the Curve with my son over the Weekend and I must say its a great start . In these windows the trees and brush are totally removed. There will also be a window on the west side of the curve. After the windows are cut the rest will be topped . This should be done in another 2-3 weeks. I know everyone is waiting to see it when the trees are down. I can't wait!!! We have set the date for our first fundraising event. July 20th will be the first annual Boxcar BBQ held on the grounds of the museum. It will feature a Chicken BBQ with all the fixings as well as a Health Screening booth set up by the medical group where I practice, Blair Medical Associates. We are working on some entertainment as well. There is not a time set yet and more details will be forthcoming. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up. The next event will be on August 17th. It will be a kind of Railroad theme Antique Roadshow type event. We are also hoping to have some Railroad antique or Railroadania dealers there as well. We are currently working out the details on this as well. If you have some cool stuff to show off or want appraised this is the place to do it. If any of you out there would be interested in setting up a table or 2 or more to sell railroadania please email me. We have not yet set prices for tables yet, I can tell you that we will have indoor space in Building B (the origional museum) and outdoor space if you have a tent and want to set up outside. Railfest is the third event. It will not include any shop tours this year at all. We are working hard to come up with some cool programming for in the yard and in Downtown Altoona. Bennett Levin's E8's are slated to make another appearance this year. There will be long distance trips from Harrisburg to Altoona on Sat morning and return Sunday evening. Coach and Private Varnish. New this year will be an Altoona to Pittsburgh and return excursion . It will depart Altoona Sat afternoon after the last Curve trip and return on Sunday morning. Overnight accomidations in Pittsburgh will be included . We may have some program in Pittsburgh as well for the evening. Details and prices will be forthcoming soon. Plan to come and Ride the train and take it all in. Building B will also have some new displays for Railfest. It should be a good time. Thanks for reading this LONG post. Will continue to update as things happen. Dr Andy Mulhollen Secretary Executive Committee Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR Railfest? Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 07:44:29 -0400 Group, What are the dates of railfest this year? Thanks Sam Vastano McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. PH 724-368-8040 X243 Fax 724-368-9677 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 08:11:40 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] X29 photo data review - BX and otherwise In a message dated 6/10/02 5:39:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, billlane@comcast.net writes: > Hi Rick, > > I am only interested in cars that would have been in over the road service. > Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the receptacle have deemed it to be > for more static storage at that point? When you see the categories, I think > you will understand what I am looking for. > > Thanks > Bill > Hi Bill, Thanks for sending me your data for comparison. I really appreciate your recording of paint date lines, built dates, and whether the lower sides have been patched. I've entered parts of your X29 spreadsheet info into my MS Access index of photographs, and am returning to you an Excel image of all my 124 records on X29 boxcars. This includes cars in original revenue freight configuration, plus cars rebuilt to express box (BX), work car/work equipment, or company materials service cars. All the X29 freight rebuilds (e.g. X29B, D, F, G, L) are of course omitted. You'll have fun sorting this Excel worksheet by: 1. carnumber/change description (puts items in numerical order) 2. letcode/year (puts different paint schemes in order of the photo date or weight date if legible) 3. refloc/reftitle/refpage (sorts by the source of photo) I know some of the codes I use will not be sensible to you. Be aware: 1. X in letcode means no photo (teXt only). 2. UK is my program's internal code for Plain Keystone (PK) lettering. 3. YSD is Youngstown Steel Door 4. ELR means an electric light receptacle is visible in the photo, to the left of the door. Notes on the records you sent me: 1. I didn't have sources of these photos, so you're tentatively labelled as the source. 2. Nearly all your 12 car numbers fit in number series that I can verify. 544009 is an exception, but I don't have an ORER right around 1942 to check. Also, your 10866 lies in no series I was aware of, but I recognize the dreadnaught end as being characteristic of cars in 100000-103324, so I've tentatively entered it as 100866. In rechecking the photos in the Color Guides, I see that one or two of the company service or MoW cars have the extra handrails+sill stirrups characteristic of X29 BX cars -- which confirms your earlier suspicion that some of those cars had been in express service first. Similarly, the Conrail X29 company service car you emailed me about earlier had these extra appliances and was obviously a BX first. You will also note the "electric light receptacle" to the left of the door on some cars in the Color Guides -- one of them even has the stencil still visible. When so equipped, this receptacle was used to connect to the female end of an extension cord to light the car's interior when loading/unloading -- a lot of this work took place at night. FWIW, somewhere I have (as yet unindexed) additional slides of other "ELR" BX cars, taken out of service in the 70's and 80's in Columbus, Fort Wayne, and other places. I'll try to dig these out before we go 'round again. Coincidentally -- had anyone noticed that PRR CG1 and CG3 both use the same photo of a freight X29 painted in the elusive SK1a scheme? Apparently the paint in that shot is brand new (1954). Also notice that several of the X29 BX's in this index are 4-digit but have dreadnaught ends. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure these are cars from the 100,000 series, built 1932 or later, which were then converted to BX (express box) configuration. All the evidence I have says all X29 BX's were converted from cars first used in freight service, and I have no evidence that makes me think any of these X29 BX's were converted or renumbered back to revenue freight service. Naturally, I'm responsible for all goofs, omissions, and errors of interpretation in this data. But this should at the very least give you a much larger body of photos to examine. Naturally, I'd appreciate hearing from you about any item I've recorded that you find is in error. When we've cleaned this info up some more, we can share it with our listmates and solicit still more photo listings. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Where to start? Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 8:48:30 -0500 I just recently moved into a new house and am trying to plan my unfinished basement. The area is roughly 22' by 30', so I should have enough room to work with! I'm looking for input as to track, code 83 or code 100? Would time frame be an issue for track used? Not sure what years I would model right now or what area. Thinking of my home town of Pittsburgh though. Any help would be appreciated. Patrick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Where to start? Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 10:35:08 -0400 Patrick, Judging by the rail sizes you mention, one makes the assumption you are talking about building an HO model railroad. There ARE other scales you know. Code 100 wouild be about the same height as the 152 Lb. rail used on some curves by the PRR, but Code 83, at about 130 lb. rail height, would be far more representative of most PRR main line trackage from the 1920's to January 31, 1968. Actually, you could build a far better representation of part of the Pittsburgh area in that space in N scale! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 9:48 AM Subject: [PRR] Where to start? > I just recently moved into a new house and am trying to plan my unfinished basement. The area is roughly 22' by 30', so I should have enough room to work with! I'm looking for input as to track, code 83 or code 100? Would time frame be an issue for track used? Not sure what years I would model right now or what area. Thinking of my home town of Pittsburgh though. Any help would be appreciated. > > > Patrick > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 09:35:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona Update From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Andy It is good that you are planning fund raising events at the Museum, but be forewarned, based on our experience at the Galveston RR Museum, that the first event often brings in a large amount of money, but those following bring in much less. On our first one we netted 30K, but we have made as little 5K profit on some events after that. 5 K is not much money for all the time and energy that goes into planning fund raising events. And, I hope you are not using high priced fund raisers to promote these events. Long before I got involved, the Museum once spent 70K on a fund raiser and raised 20K. One of the reasons it is in financial troubles now. Fund raisers are good for filling in short term needs. I strongly recommend you guys consider adding programs that will bring in kids - kids are your long term lifeline. Get them hooked and they will be back as adults, bringing their kids and grandkids with them. And that is where part of your long term survival strategy should lie. In an earlier post I mentioned we started a Boy Scout Railroading Merit Badge program. This should be volunteer run to keep from using sparse staff on the program. Once established, make it known to each group that attends that you are open to Eagle Scout projects - we had an Eagle Scout re-deck our DRGW flat car for his project. I will be happy to supply you, and anyone else on the list who is interested in starting one, the files on the merit badge program. Although we have not done it yet, we have on the drawing board a Thomas the Tank Engine program for young kids to be held on Saturday mornings. The idea is for parents to drop off their kids for a couple of hours while they run errands, and the kids read train related books or watch videos, all under the supervision of several adults (who, we hope, are at least somewhat interested in trains). Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:39:06 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Where to start? Patrick sez, >I just recently moved into a new house and am trying to plan my unfinished >basement. The area is roughly 22' by 30', so I should have enough room to >work with! I'm looking for input as to track, code 83 or code 100? Would >time frame be an issue for track used? Not sure what years I would model >right now or what area. Thinking of my home town of Pittsburgh though. Any >help would be appreciated. Whoa! Slow down!! You're not sure where you're going to model and you're worried about track code? You've got the cabin in front of the consist! First, I ASSUME you're going to model in HO...bad news here is that while 22' x 30' is a nice space, when you start planning, you'll find it isn't all that big, especially when modeling a big city terminal like Pittsburgh or a high capacity main line! You need to work you're way through some questions first. For help in layout planning, I reccomend the Layout Design Special Interest Group's Primer (which I help maintain) on line at: http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/LDSIGprimer/TOC.html To answer your question, code 100 scales out close to the 152 lbs rail used on the heaviest PRR mainlines. It should be used sparingly. Code 83 scales out to a more modest weight rail used on most PRR lines. Codes 70 and 55 are appropriate for most branches, sidings and yard track. Some basic questions you need to answer in the process of designing a layout 1) Location...consider a branch line like the Octararo...huge model potential with lots of switching, short trains, mixed trains, doodlebugs...you'll get lots more bang for the buck than trying to squeeze a mainline into your space. Oh yeah, and excellent documentation! 2) Era (this can wait, but track arrangements change with the years, so you might at least have a clue so that you can pick the track arrangement). There are great things about many different PRR eras and most of us want to collect all sorts of stuff, but I realized that there were soooo many neat things in just one era that you can't have them all, so trying multiple eras is even more futile (that said, I still pick up an "anachronism" now and then..like the RC F38 or an FF2) 3) Equipment...so you want to run T1s eh? THINK minimum radius...even for smaller steamers, electrics or diseasels, 18" looks AWFUL...try 25-30"...for the big stuff like 80'+ passenger equipment, think 30-36" or higher. 4) Operation...are you a railfan (boring IMHO) or an operator...what is the operating potential of the area you are considering? 5) Train length...so you want to model the mainline eh? An 80 car train of 40' coal hoppers scales out to around 40' in HO! Lets use selective compression to make that train reasonable...say 40 cars (20 feet!) or 30 cars (15') and your 22' x 30' room is still a LOT smaller than you thought. This is particularly important as town seperation (minimum ~1.5 x train length) and passing siding length are governed by max train length! The good news is that there are lots of REALLY interesting locations and approaches that can be taken. Consider just modeling a terminal! What action, what activity! Until his switch to n-scale, our listmeister in absentia was planning just that with Harrisburg (and it would have made a GREAT layout, but he wanted to be able to run trains on the main...) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] use of PRR logo Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 10:33:25 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C221B3.E5672540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; The newly formed (Lines West) Crestline Roundhouse Preservation = Society.........would like to incorporate the PRR logo somewhere within = it's identity.....what were the "rules" regarding it's use?? Seems I = have about 20 PRR "bookmarks" each one using this logo....I take it that = it is not a big deal to use it?? Earl Myers, BoD, CRPS ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C221B3.E5672540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 The newly formed (Lines West) = Crestline=20 Roundhouse Preservation Society.........would like to incorporate the = PRR logo=20 somewhere within it's identity.....what were the "rules" regarding it's = use??=20 Seems I have about 20 PRR "bookmarks" each one using this logo....I take = it that=20 it is not a big deal to use it??
Earl Myers, BoD, = CRPS
------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C221B3.E5672540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Keith Pomroy" Subject: RE: [PRR] use of PRR logo Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 16:33:19 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C221E6.2C805DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, On a related note, I would like to buy a T-shirt with a simple PRR keystone, but I cannot seem to find one anywhere. Is there some restriction out there for some reason? Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Earl Myers Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 10:33 AM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] use of PRR logo Gents; The newly formed (Lines West) Crestline Roundhouse Preservation Society.........would like to incorporate the PRR logo somewhere within it's identity.....what were the "rules" regarding it's use?? Seems I have about 20 PRR "bookmarks" each one using this logo....I take it that it is not a big deal to use it?? Earl Myers, BoD, CRPS ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C221E6.2C805DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Folks,
On a=20 related note, I would like to buy a T-shirt with a simple PRR keystone, = but I=20 cannot seem to find one anywhere. Is there some restriction out there = for some=20 reason?
Thanks,
Keith
 
 
 
 -----Original = Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Earl=20 Myers
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 10:33 AM
To: PRR=20 Talk
Subject: [PRR] use of PRR = logo

Gents;
 The newly formed (Lines West) = Crestline=20 Roundhouse Preservation Society.........would like to incorporate the = PRR logo=20 somewhere within it's identity.....what were the "rules" regarding = it's use??=20 Seems I have about 20 PRR "bookmarks" each one using this logo....I = take it=20 that it is not a big deal to use it??
Earl Myers, BoD,=20 CRPS
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C221E6.2C805DC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] use of PRR logo Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:12:18 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C221EB.9EEA94C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Earl, I am NOT a copyright lawyer, but I believe the PRR logo is considered = "in the public domain". Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Earl Myers=20 To: PRR Talk=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 10:33 AM Subject: [PRR] use of PRR logo Gents; The newly formed (Lines West) Crestline Roundhouse Preservation = Society.........would like to incorporate the PRR logo somewhere within = it's identity.....what were the "rules" regarding it's use?? Seems I = have about 20 PRR "bookmarks" each one using this logo....I take it that = it is not a big deal to use it?? Earl Myers, BoD, CRPS ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C221EB.9EEA94C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Earl,
 
I am NOT a copyright lawyer, but I believe the PRR = logo is=20 considered "in the public domain".
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Earl = Myers=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 = 10:33=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] use of PRR = logo

Gents;
 The newly formed (Lines West) = Crestline=20 Roundhouse Preservation Society.........would like to incorporate the = PRR logo=20 somewhere within it's identity.....what were the "rules" regarding = it's use??=20 Seems I have about 20 PRR "bookmarks" each one using this logo....I = take it=20 that it is not a big deal to use it??
Earl Myers, BoD,=20 CRPS
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C221EB.9EEA94C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 19:53:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Where to start? Patrick wrote: "I just recently moved into a new house and am trying to plan my unfinished basement. The area is roughly 22' by 30', so I should have enough room to work with! I'm looking for input as to track, code 83 or code 100? Would time frame be an issue for track used? Not sure what years I would model right now or what area. Thinking of my home town of Pittsburgh though. Any help would be appreciated" ----------------- Greetings Patrick & folks, Sounds to me like a pretty decent sized layout space you have to work with, certainly more than enough for one fella to work on. I don't know what particular era you're thinking of, but by definition it has to be pre-1968, which means lots of heavy industry anywhere in the Pittsburgh area. Also a lot of attractive hilly/mountainous scenery. Just having those two elements sets a nice Pennsy mood. I should admit that a lot my personal image of the PRR was fostered by many passenger train rides through that area enroute from the midwest to Philley, and that region left a very lasting impression in my memories. I almost think you should look over those packs of prints made from the old Pennsy calenders: these give a strong PRR mystique, unlike the aura of any other railroad, at least to me. Consider, too, the terrain's effect on train watching in that area. Not a whole lot of track length is visable in most places, what with all the curves and sloped scernery, a nice bonus in building a layout as an entire train is seldom visible at one time. A couple week's ago I had to drive over from Altoona to Johnstown to swap rented cars while on vacation. I was struck with the descent into Johnstown and the city's setting: a river in a narrow valley, steep mountain slopes confining the city, railroad and river; narrow and often curivng or bending streets. Living as I do in the Midwest, I was absolutely fascinated by the modeling potential of this area. I could easily envisage tuscan red passenger trains cruising through the valley and lashups of Baldwins or FM's lugging coal and mineral trains, shifters working tight industry trackage. Fascinated enough, in fact, to take a second look at my currently-rebuilding layout, but that's another storey. I think if I had you space I might consider dedicating one 22 foot end wall to staging and the rest to recreating a place like Johnstown. Even using a good share of a 30 foot wall for Conemaugh Yard, the terrain is scenic enough even in town to create a fine mountainous layout. Think I'd give priority to the Main Line; use generous radius in the corners so that the trackage was out from the wall corners a good ways and use this space for urban/industrial developement. Doing the old around the walls shelves with a penninsula into the center of the room would be a natural. On a glancing look consider this: 3 foot wall shelves plus 4 foot aisles still leaves 8 feet of width for the penninsula, way more than enough. You could use 36' radius curves and still have plenty of room. (Wish I had your space: I've got more length but far less width). I'm not sure how important the code on your mainline is, but I think I'd go with 100 on the mail lines just to emphasis it's status, though code 83 would do if you built up it's ballast depth enough. As a practicle note, using 83 on the main forces a person to use code 70/75/55 on lesser trackage, which is more expensive than going code 100/83/70/55. I wouldn't even look a N scale due to the much lesser selection of much critical Pennsy stuff such as engines, freight cars, passenger cars and structures, passenger and freight trucks, etc, but that's a personal choice of course.(nice as some N scale stuff is, please consider who makes Pennsy steam engine kits in N scale, it's equivlent to ECW's four versions of the P70, Baldwin switchers, Keystones buildings and trucks, Westerfield and F&C's freight car kits, the old Walthers Pennsy-usable Pullmans, MDC passenger trucks, Bethlehem passenger cars, NERS convserion parts, balloon and arch passenger roofs, signal bridges, etc). Anway, that's my first impression of your potential situation. Have fun! Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 18:22:56 -0700 (PDT) From: andy mulhollen Subject: [PRR] Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum Website Greetings to the list, I have gotten several inquiries as to where to send donations and I thought I would post our website address here. It gives details on how to volunteer and where to send any donations. While your checking out the site, make sure you take the virtual tour. By the way. The guy standing in front of the K4 backhead is ME.. That is my wife Christine and our son Ryan. Ryan is a foamer at the young age of 4. He is my Railroading Buddy. Thank You. www.railroadcity.com Dr Andy Mulhollen Secretary Executive Committee Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:24:23 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C222A4.F644E98C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Listers, Just because the Listmeister is on vacation doesn't mean that the list traffic should come to a screeching halt. So to get it moving, what year did the "_______ View" tail cars of the Broadway switch from the Keystone drumhead to the rectangular sign with the fluorescent light? Chris Chany ------_=_NextPart_001_01C222A4.F644E98C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Listers,
 
 Just because the Listmeister is on vacation doesn't mean that the list traffic should come to a screeching halt.  So to get it moving, what year did the "_______ View" tail cars of the Broadway switch from the Keystone drumhead to the rectangular sign with the fluorescent light?
 
Chris Chany
------_=_NextPart_001_01C222A4.F644E98C-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Broadway limited imports Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:39:58 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C222A7.E322E856 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Listers, Just because the Listmeister is on vacation doesn't mean that the list traffic should come to a screeching halt. So to get it moving, saw the ad in August MR for the NYC (the horror) J. It says that it will pull 75 cars. When we had it for the PRRT&HS meeting I thought we decided it's pulling power was highly suspect. Do you think that they will make the soundboards available for sale? I could see buying a couple of the M1 boards for my Westside M's. Chris Chany ------_=_NextPart_001_01C222A7.E322E856 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Listers,
 
Just because the Listmeister is on vacation doesn't mean that the list traffic should come to a screeching halt.  So to get it moving, saw the ad in August MR for the NYC (the horror) J. It says that it will pull 75 cars.  When we had it for the PRRT&HS meeting I thought we decided it's pulling power was highly suspect.  Do you think that they will make the soundboards available for sale?  I could see buying a couple of the M1 boards for my Westside M's.
 
Chris Chany
------_=_NextPart_001_01C222A7.E322E856-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:01:39 EDT Subject: [PRR] Broadway tailsign change In a message dated 7/3/02 10:33:34 AM Central Daylight Time, cpc1@westchestergov.com writes: << So to get it moving, what year did the "_______ View" tail cars of the Broadway switch from the Keystone drumhead to the rectangular sign with the fluorescent light? >> If we did the subject line right, this was discussed and may be in the archives. Otherwise, I guess we can always use updated information. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:09:21 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports Chris sez: >Saw the ad in August MR for the NYC (the horror) J. It says that it will >pull 75 cars. When we had it for the PRRT&HS meeting I thought we >decided it's pulling power was highly suspect. Do you think that they >will make the soundboards available for sale? I could see buying a >couple of the M1 boards for my Westside M's. Yeah, I saw that too. Jerry mentioned that Broadway 1) knew about the problem at the PRRT&HS meeting (and thought about not letting us see the loco) and 2) had fixed it. Of course, the add only says "75 cars", not "75 NMRA weighted cars" ;^)...that said, I am EAGERLY awaiting my 4 reserved M1as. As for the sound boards, I haven't heard a peep about them being available seperately, but it sure would be nice for Soundtraxx to have competition. BTW, I noticed that the Dallee sound boards appear to have been redesigned to a lower profile. This would be a VERY good thing as the bloody things were HUGE before. Maybe they've even got multiplex sound too? (Previously, only one sound at time, so the chuff goes away when the whistle blows etc..really annoying and a good reason not to use them) The one thing going for Dallee is that they have a number of different PRR whistles that are supposedly correct. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: USMCnewdog25431@cs.com Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:08:59 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports --part1_10.2138d80b.2a5489ab_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am glad this came up! I was looking at the M1 and the T1, but there are no photos of the actually model anywhere!!! I just cant pay that much without atleast seeing a picture! To those who have seen the M1, what so you think?? And why hasn't Model railroader or someone gotten a hold of one to test it?! I emailed Broadway limited with my thoughts, and did not get anywhere there. To bad to, because Brass is out of the question for me ($$), but with a decoder and sound I was willing to buy one an M1 and T1. If I cant see it or a picture, and haven't heard anything about how it runs there's just no way I am going to pay that money. And I dont suspect one of my local hobby shops will carry one! I would love to hear from anyone who saw the J! Or knows anything else about these engines! Is there a way to search the archives on this list?? Mike Schock List owner of the Transition Era Yahoo group Sandusky, Ohio Modeling B&O and PRR in the Transition period --part1_10.2138d80b.2a5489ab_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am glad this came up!  I was looking at the M1 and the T1, but there are no photos of the actually model anywhere!!!  I just cant pay that much without atleast seeing a picture!

To those who have seen the M1, what so you think??  And why hasn't Model railroader or someone gotten a hold of one to test it?!  I emailed Broadway limited with my thoughts, and did not get anywhere there.

To bad to, because Brass is out of the question for me ($$), but with a decoder and sound I was willing to buy one an M1 and T1.  If I cant see it or a picture, and haven't heard anything about how it runs there's just no way I am going to pay that money.  And I dont suspect one of my local hobby shops will carry one!

I would love to hear from anyone who saw the J! Or knows anything else about these engines!

Is there a way to search the archives on this list??

Mike Schock
List owner of the Transition Era Yahoo group
Sandusky, Ohio
Modeling B&O and PRR in the Transition period --part1_10.2138d80b.2a5489ab_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 13:28:21 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports --------------462A66AF961AF2F0F3DB36DD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, It has been my impression that the M1, T1, et al are so far just good intentions. The only item BLI has produced (even as a pilot) is the NYC J. That said, I don't think they are guilty of anything more heinous than pre-mature announcement - a very common marketing ploy. They got our attention, didn't they? Besides which without announcing the M1 and T1 how could they possibly explain a company called BROADWAY LIMITED selling a NYC J?? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== USMCnewdog25431@cs.com wrote: > > I am glad this came up! I was looking at the M1 and the T1, but there > are no photos of the actually model anywhere!!! I just cant pay that > much without atleast seeing a picture! > > To those who have seen the M1, what so you think?? And why hasn't > Model railroader or someone gotten a hold of one to test it?! I > emailed Broadway limited with my thoughts, and did not get anywhere > there. > > To bad to, because Brass is out of the question for me ($$), but with > a decoder and sound I was willing to buy one an M1 and T1. If I cant > see it or a picture, and haven't heard anything about how it runs > there's just no way I am going to pay that money. And I dont suspect > one of my local hobby shops will carry one! > > I would love to hear from anyone who saw the J! Or knows anything else > about these engines! > > Is there a way to search the archives on this list?? > > Mike Schock > List owner of the Transition Era Yahoo group > Sandusky, Ohio > Modeling B&O and PRR in the Transition period --------------462A66AF961AF2F0F3DB36DD Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike,

It has been my impression that the M1, T1, et al are so far just good intentions.  The only item BLI has produced (even as a pilot) is the NYC J.  That said, I don't think they are guilty of anything more heinous than pre-mature announcement - a very common marketing ploy.  They got our attention, didn't they?  Besides which without announcing the M1 and T1 how could they possibly explain a company called BROADWAY LIMITED selling a NYC J??

Regards,

Andy Miller
asmiller@mitre.org

==================================================
USMCnewdog25431@cs.com wrote:

 
I am glad this came up!  I was looking at the M1 and the T1, but there are no photos of the actually model anywhere!!!  I just cant pay that much without atleast seeing a picture!

To those who have seen the M1, what so you think??  And why hasn't Model railroader or someone gotten a hold of one to test it?!  I emailed Broadway limited with my thoughts, and did not get anywhere there.

To bad to, because Brass is out of the question for me ($$), but with a decoder and sound I was willing to buy one an M1 and T1.  If I cant see it or a picture, and haven't heard anything about how it runs there's just no way I am going to pay that money.  And I dont suspect one of my local hobby shops will carry one!

I would love to hear from anyone who saw the J! Or knows anything else about these engines!

Is there a way to search the archives on this list??

Mike Schock
List owner of the Transition Era Yahoo group
Sandusky, Ohio
Modeling B&O and PRR in the Transition period

--------------462A66AF961AF2F0F3DB36DD-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: USMCnewdog25431@cs.com Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:39:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports --part1_193.944e89b.2a5490bf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LOL so true Andy. Well, they definitely got my attention :) I went from my most expensive engine being the Athearn Genesis 2-8-2 when they first came out to considering a $200 or $300 engine :) BUT I would be glad to pay that amount for a nice sounding, running , and looking plastic steamer :)) Mike Schock List owner of the Transition Era Yahoo group Sandusky, Ohio Modeling B&O and PRR in the Transition period --part1_193.944e89b.2a5490bf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LOL so true Andy.  Well, they definitely got my attention :) I went from  my most expensive engine being the Athearn Genesis 2-8-2 when they first came out to considering a $200 or $300 engine :) BUT I would be glad to pay that amount for a nice sounding, running , and looking plastic steamer :))

Mike Schock
List owner of the Transition Era Yahoo group
Sandusky, Ohio
Modeling B&O and PRR in the Transition period --part1_193.944e89b.2a5490bf_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway limited imports Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:24:31 -0400
I think we are being a little too harsh on BLI. We need to remember that it was a pre-production model that was sent to the convention. I seem to remember a post that they knew about the sample's lack of pulling power. Later there was a post about a more recent sample that pulled much better. They did go out on a limb by sending the first sample to the convention, it seems a bit unfair to crucify them for it. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that they have rectified the problems. That would explain why a model that was due out in April is not yet here. While I do not have a J on order, I do have a M1b and a Class A on order.
Eric
----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:15:17 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] BLI locomotives: some answers Hello all: I have one of the two layouts that Jerry test ran the pre-production model on during the PRRH&TS open house tour. To try and answer some of your questions: 1) BLI did push the ship dates back a little for the NYC J and PRR M1. This was due to the pulling problems. My understanding is that the J will ship late summer, the M1 late fall (this year). 2) There is a "second" pre-production model of the J. It has been sent to the labs for testing. That's where the 75 car number came from (I've also been told 17 cars on 4% grade). It is my understanding that a completely different, redesigned gear box is now being used. The first pre-production pulled 5 cars up my 2.1% grade... 3) The sound system is actually made by QSI. This is the same company that made MTH's Proto-Sound until recently. It has been rumored that QSI is considering a stand-alone version of the sound system in the future. My only "problem" with this sound is that you can not seperately control the elements as you can in Soundtraxx (you can't make the bell quieter, the horn louder, and keep the exhaust chuff the same). All adjustments are made via a screw on the underside of the tender (like MTH did)... This sound was the highlight of the new loco. It sounded REAL, REAL good (better than soundtraxx IMHO). 4) The NYC J details were good, but not great. It is a step below P2K Heritage or the new Rivarossi Allegheny. It is on par with Bachmann Spectrum or perhaps slightly better in some areas. I am not a NYC fan, but somebody who is commented that the detail looked dead on accurate while it was here... 5) If you are looking to buy a BLI locomotive, Jerry Britton's Keystone Crossing site's Merchandise Service carries all of them (unsolicited plug since Jerry's out of town). If there is anything else I can answer as I have seen the pre-productoin model, please let me know. Note: I tried sending this once before, but noticed (after I hit send) that I had the address wrong, so I apoligize to the person who got both versions. Jeff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] Railworks flats Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:22:55 -0700 Hi folks, On this subject, have any of you received any of the new Railworks flats (F25, F42, etc.)? Or the new Rail Classics F40? Any comments? Thanks, and a happy 4th! Elden ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:55:32 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports WOW...I keep hearing the manufacturers say that the average model railroader is clueless about the industry, and some of y'all seem bent on proving it! 1) Broadway lent a DEMO to Jerry so we could have SOME idea of the detail and sound. They KNEW it didn't pull worth a damn and took the risk of demoing anyway as they were working on a fix. We did the right thing in letting them know the problems, and they did the right thing in FIXING it. Lets reserve our complaints about pulling power until the model is released and we can see it and instead thank Broadway for having the guts to let us see the preproduction sample...lets hope they do the same thing with the M and the T so that if there are any errors, they can be fixed before production too. 2) No plastic Locomotive will EVER pull as well as a metal one, so stop hammering that point..."Ye canna defy the laws of physics Captain"!, to quote Mr. Scott. Go ahead and play with your Bowsers with their incorrect tenders, misplaced and out of scale features and hamburger sized rivits...its your choice...I have a few and will keep them as long as there aren't better alternatives (but note that a Bowser + superdetail kit + repower kit + sound decoder costs MORE than a Broadway loco, so don't be bitchin to me about PRICE) 3) Broadway is a new company, so they basically have no track record. While I'm not saying we have to implicitly trust every statement they make, sometime we need to give them the benefit of the doubt, or at least postpone that doubt until it is reasonable. If we don't do that, we'll NEVER see new companies interested in bringing new (revolutionary) products out on a large scale. 4) So you want someone to make your favorite loco model of a single road (albeit a big road) prototype, you want it super detailed and you don't want to have to make a reservation? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You'll be waiting a LONG time then since most manufacturers out there are smart enough to realize that they can't afford a sales failure. Essentially, you should think of Broadway as making an affordable brass locomotive in the media of choice...styrene (which, as many of you HAVE noticed, can be more highly detailed than either brass or zamac). If there aren't enough reservations, the model won't get produced...witness Rail Classics' E6. You still don't HAVE to make a reservation...you can hope that enough of the REST of us do reserve enough models that it will get made and that maybe you can pick up one of the "surplus"...Maybe you'll get lucky and the supply will overwhelm demand (like P2K 0-8-0s which sell for a fraction of list from the discounters or on eBay) and then maybe not...(there is always eBay, where a kadee Rutland PS1 went for over $100 recently). Sheeesh, I need a vacation Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] (EQ) Request for Drawings Lists, This Saturday, finally, the Beaver Valley Jct Chapter of the NRHS will start restoration of the Clubs's PRR N5c 477974. We looked the car over last week to get an idea what we want to do. First is the removal of rivits (lots of em) from the bottom sides so that large areas of rusted siding can be cut away and new metal welded in then rerivited in place. While looking at the car we decided we would like to remove the PC/CR era steps. The original PRR Pedestal Steps were removed when the newer, longer, Barber Bentondorf trucks were installed. What we would like to do is fabricate these Pedestal Steps from steel (originals were cast) to the "likness" of the originals. What the group would like to have are some PRR drawings of these steps so we can have the measurments. Is there anyone here who has such drawings that can be copied for our use. No big hurry as there is plenty of body work down the road. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 17:59:24 +0000 From: hank m Subject: [PRR] off topic notice Hello all. As i've mentioned to Ken Meyer.... A little over a week ago i had to crash my hard drive on purpose to get rid of a worm in my system. I've lost many of the e-mails and addresses from some of the folks here because of this. If anyone here was in contact with me via e-mail or ICQ (13559398) and still wishes to keep in contact please write or page me off list. Sorry for this short Non-PRR notice. Now back to something more fun to talk about. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 18:24:06 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C222BE.D1377B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Latest dealer info I have seen indicates the NYC Hudson will now be here = sometime in August. No word on subsequent models but I would assume they = will be delayed accordingly. Frank Brua -----Original Message----- From: Eric Lauterbach To: prr-talk Date: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 2:32 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway limited imports I think we are being a little too harsh on BLI. We need to remember = that it was a pre-production model that was sent to the convention. I = seem to remember a post that they knew about the sample's lack of = pulling power. Later there was a post about a more recent sample that = pulled much better. They did go out on a limb by sending the first = sample to the convention, it seems a bit unfair to crucify them for it. = I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that they = have rectified the problems. That would explain why a model that was due = out in April is not yet here. While I do not have a J on order, I do = have a M1b and a Class A on order. Eric = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- = For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C222BE.D1377B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Latest dealer info I have seen indicates the NYC = Hudson will=20 now be here sometime in August. No word on subsequent models but I would = assume=20 they will be delayed accordingly.
Frank Brua
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Eric Lauterbach <ealauterbach@earthlink.net= >
To:=20 prr-talk <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Date:=20 Wednesday, July 03, 2002 2:32 PM
Subject: RE: [PRR] = Broadway=20 limited imports

I think we are being a little too harsh on BLI. We need to = remember that=20 it was a pre-production model that was sent to the convention. I seem = to=20 remember a post that they knew about the sample's lack of pulling = power. Later=20 there was a post about a more recent sample that pulled much better. = They did=20 go out on a limb by sending the first sample to the convention, it = seems a bit=20 unfair to crucify them for it. I am willing to give them the benefit = of the=20 doubt and believe that they have rectified the problems. That would = explain=20 why a model that was due out in April is not yet here. While I do not = have a J=20 on order, I do have a M1b and a Class A on order.
=
Eric
----------------------------------------------------------= -------------=20 For assistance with this list, please visit=20 http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C222BE.D1377B40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] (EQ) Request for Drawings Lists, This Saturday, finally, the Beaver Valley Jct Chapter of the NRHS will start restoration of the Clubs's PRR N5c 477974. We looked the car over last week to get an idea what we want to do. First is the removal of rivits (lots of em) from the bottom sides so that large areas of rusted siding can be cut away and new metal welded in then rerivited in place. While looking at the car we decided we would like to remove the PC/CR era steps. The original PRR Pedestal Steps were removed when the newer, longer, Barber Bentondorf trucks were installed. What we would like to do is fabricate these Pedestal Steps from steel (originals were cast) to the "likness" of the originals. What the group would like to have are some PRR drawings of these steps so we can have the measurments. Is there anyone here who has such drawings that can be copied for our use. No big hurry as there is plenty of body work down the road. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 19:29:15 -0400 From: Nick Kulp Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports --=====================_4930432==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Bruce and Chris, I operated the J1 during the convention at Jeff Warner's layout while I imagined it was the M1a coming out in December. BLI has addressed the weight issue and has taken steps to improve the tracking ability. The loco was a pre-production model and Jerry did say they knew about the poor adhesion but wanted people to see and HEAR the locomotive. The sound was excellent and although a bit quieter than I would like, the whistle was fun to "play" I could actually quill it and the exhaust had a throaty quality the Soundtraxx sorely lacks. Their exhaust is reminiscent of sandpaper rubbing together unless you install a 12" subwoofer in the tender. I can't wait for the M1a. Soundtraxx will have some competition. What the heck, the J1 costs little more than a Soundtraxx decoder after you pay for a good speaker. Buy the loco and use the decoder. The sound is better Nick Kulp >Subject: >From: "Bruce F. Smith" >Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:09:21 -0500 > >Chris sez: > >Saw the ad in August MR for the NYC (the horror) J. It says that it will > >pull 75 cars. When we had it for the PRRT&HS meeting I thought we > >decided it's pulling power was highly suspect. Do you think that they > >will make the soundboards available for sale? I could see buying a > >couple of the M1 boards for my Westside M's. > >Yeah, I saw that too. Jerry mentioned that Broadway 1) knew about the >problem at the PRRT&HS meeting (and thought about not letting us see the >loco) and 2) had fixed it. Of course, the add only says "75 cars", not "75 >NMRA weighted cars" ;^)...that said, I am EAGERLY awaiting my 4 reserved >M1as. > >As for the sound boards, I haven't heard a peep about them being available >seperately, but it sure would be nice for Soundtraxx to have competition. >BTW, I noticed that the Dallee sound boards appear to have been redesigned >to a lower profile. This would be a VERY good thing as the bloody things >were HUGE before. Maybe they've even got multiplex sound too? (Previously, >only one sound at time, so the chuff goes away when the whistle blows >etc..really annoying and a good reason not to use them) The one thing >going for Dallee is that they have a number of different PRR whistles that >are supposedly correct. > >Happy Rails >Bruce > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > >"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > --=====================_4930432==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi Bruce and Chris,

I operated the J1 during the convention at Jeff Warner's layout while I imagined it was the M1a coming out in December. BLI has addressed the weight issue and has taken steps to improve the tracking ability. The loco was a pre-production model and Jerry did say they knew about the poor adhesion but wanted people to see and HEAR the locomotive. The sound was excellent and although a bit quieter than I would like, the whistle was fun to "play" I could actually quill it and the exhaust had a throaty quality the Soundtraxx sorely lacks. Their exhaust is reminiscent of sandpaper rubbing together unless you install a 12" subwoofer in the tender. I can't wait for the M1a. Soundtraxx will have some competition. What the heck, the J1 costs little more than a Soundtraxx decoder after you pay for a good speaker. Buy the loco and use the decoder. The sound is better <VBG>

Nick Kulp

Subject:
From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:09:21 -0500

Chris sez:
>Saw the ad in August MR for the NYC  (the horror) J. It says that it will
>pull 75 cars.  When we had it for the  PRRT&HS meeting I thought we
>decided it's pulling power was highly  suspect.  Do you think that they
>will make the soundboards available for  sale?  I could see buying a
>couple of the M1 boards for my Westside  M's. 

Yeah, I saw that too.  Jerry mentioned that Broadway 1) knew about the
problem at the PRRT&HS meeting (and thought about not letting us see the
loco) and 2) had fixed it.  Of course, the add only says "75 cars", not "75
NMRA weighted cars" ;^)...that said, I am EAGERLY awaiting my 4 reserved
M1as.

As for the sound boards, I haven't heard a peep about them being available
seperately, but it sure would be nice for Soundtraxx to have competition.
BTW, I noticed that the Dallee sound boards appear to have been redesigned
to a lower profile.  This would be a VERY good thing as the bloody things
were HUGE before.  Maybe they've even got multiplex sound too? (Previously,
only one sound at time, so the chuff goes away when the whistle blows
etc..really annoying and a good reason not to use them)  The one thing
going for Dallee is that they have a number of different PRR whistles that
are supposedly correct.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
                           __
                          /  \
  __<+--+>________________\__/___   ____________________________________
 |- ______/ O        O \_______ -| | __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __ |
 | / 4999  PENNSYLVANIA   4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
 |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________|
 | O--O     \0  0  0  0/    O--O |   0-0-0                        0-0-0


--=====================_4930432==.ALT-- X-SpamDetect: low: Possible Junk Mail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 20:13:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports In a message dated 7/3/02 7:37:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, caseyj@mail.igateway.com writes: << unless you install a 12" subwoofer in the tender. >> Can someone explain how you get a 12" speaker in an HO Tender - I think it would be a tough job in "O" scale - even 12mm (bit less than a 1/2") would be tight...... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 16:41:10 +0000 Didn't I also read somwhere that the J is delayed? I think I saw it in one of the ads. That would push the M's back further. One can only speculate if it is a detail part or a major issue. N. Bell > Chris sez: > >Saw the ad in August MR for the NYC (the horror) J. It says that it will > >pull 75 cars. When we had it for the PRRT&HS meeting I thought we > >decided it's pulling power was highly suspect. Do you think that they > >will make the soundboards available for sale? I could see buying a > >couple of the M1 boards for my Westside M's. > > Yeah, I saw that too. Jerry mentioned that Broadway 1) knew about the > problem at the PRRT&HS meeting (and thought about not letting us see the > loco) and 2) had fixed it. Of course, the add only says "75 cars", not "75 > NMRA weighted cars" ;^)...that said, I am EAGERLY awaiting my 4 reserved > M1as. > > As for the sound boards, I haven't heard a peep about them being available > seperately, but it sure would be nice for Soundtraxx to have competition. > BTW, I noticed that the Dallee sound boards appear to have been redesigned > to a lower profile. This would be a VERY good thing as the bloody things > were HUGE before. Maybe they've even got multiplex sound too? (Previously, > only one sound at time, so the chuff goes away when the whistle blows > etc..really annoying and a good reason not to use them) The one thing > going for Dallee is that they have a number of different PRR whistles that > are supposedly correct. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway limited imports Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:43:56 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C2228F.4BF350A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris- I can't agree with you more. I also hope BLI to put out the soundboards seperately. From the review on the NYC J following the national convention, I refuse to forward any funds for a locomotive based on magazine ads and very poor pulling power. 75 cars? I find that very hard to believe. If I remember correctly from list postings, didnt the loco have difficulty pulling 15 passenger cars upgrade, then cars kept coming off the tail until it could manage about 10 or so? For those who put $ down, I wish you luck. I will catch the next batch. If not, my heart is content with Bowsers and Brass. Greg V -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Chany, Christopher Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 11:40 AM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] Broadway limited imports Listers, Just because the Listmeister is on vacation doesn't mean that the list traffic should come to a screeching halt. So to get it moving, saw the ad in August MR for the NYC (the horror) J. It says that it will pull 75 cars. When we had it for the PRRT&HS meeting I thought we decided it's pulling power was highly suspect. Do you think that they will make the soundboards available for sale? I could see buying a couple of the M1 boards for my Westside M's. Chris Chany ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C2228F.4BF350A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris-
 
I=20 can't agree with you more.  I also hope BLI to put out the = soundboards=20 seperately.  From the review on the NYC J following the national=20 convention, I refuse to forward any funds for a locomotive based on = magazine ads and very poor pulling power.  75 cars? I find that = very hard=20 to believe.  If I remember correctly from list postings, didnt the=20 loco have difficulty pulling 15 passenger cars upgrade, then = cars kept=20 coming off the tail until it could manage about 10 or = so?   For=20 those who put $ down, I wish you luck. I will catch the next = batch.  If=20 not, my heart is content with Bowsers and = Brass. 
 
Greg=20 V
-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Chany,=20 Christopher
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 11:40 = AM
To:=20 PRR Talk
Subject: [PRR] Broadway limited=20 imports

Listers,
 
Just because the=20 Listmeister is on vacation doesn't mean that the list traffic should = come to a=20 screeching halt.  So to get it moving, saw the ad in August MR = for the=20 NYC (the horror) J. It says that it will pull 75 cars.  When we = had it=20 for the PRRT&HS meeting I thought we decided it's pulling power = was highly=20 suspect.  Do you think that they will make the soundboards = available for=20 sale?  I could see buying a couple of the M1 boards for my = Westside=20 M's.
 
Chris=20 Chany
------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C2228F.4BF350A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregory Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: [PRR] R-50 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 20:59:17 -0400 Does anyone have drawing for a R-50 reefer. Need not be highly detailed, just the basic dimensions. Thank you Greg V ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 21:34:42 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Class P85R Budd Coaches From: John Sheets Does anybody know the road numbers for these cars? 60 Seats, Budd Built 1940s PRR Coach Class P85R Thnks John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:07:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports In a message dated 7/3/02 4:08:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << 3) Broadway is a new company, so they basically have no track record. While I'm not saying we have to implicitly trust every statement they make, sometime we need to give them the benefit of the doubt, or at least postpone that doubt until it is reasonable. If we don't do that, we'll NEVER see new companies interested in bringing new (revolutionary) products out on a large scale. >> Actually while the Broadway name is new the owners of the company have a long term track record in the industry. If you remember Oriental brass then you have seen past products from the same people. To me this is a big plus as they already have some idea of what they are getting into and how the average modeler reacts or at least how they used to react. -------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: USMCnewdog25431@cs.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:01:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports --part1_17c.a96350f.2a55228a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List, I dont believe anyone was really knocking BLI, but maybe informing me of the demo they had (which I asked for). I am glad to hear they are aware of the problems and correcting them! THIS IS WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR! Like I responded to someone off list I think the M1 will make a great Christmas present to myself :)) Now lets move on, I just wanted some information on their models now I am ready to BUY! :) Mike Schock List owner of the Transition Era Yahoo group Sandusky, Ohio Modeling B&O and PRR in the Transition period --part1_17c.a96350f.2a55228a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List,

I dont believe anyone was really knocking BLI, but maybe informing me of the demo they had (which I asked for).  I am glad to hear they are aware of the problems and correcting them! THIS IS WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR!

Like I responded to someone off list I think the M1 will make a great Christmas present to myself :))

Now lets move on, I just wanted some information on their models now I am ready to BUY! :)

Mike Schock
List owner of the Transition Era Yahoo group
Sandusky, Ohio
Modeling B&O and PRR in the Transition period --part1_17c.a96350f.2a55228a_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 02:02:26 -0400 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Class P85R Budd Coaches John Sheets wrote: > > Does anybody know the road numbers for these cars? > > 60 Seats, Budd Built 1940s PRR Coach Class P85R > > Thnks > John > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > John Car Class Info Trucks P85R-Coach-85' Budd-1940 #4019-4023-Assign. to "South Wind"-Seats 60 rotate-recline 2DP5 P85R-Coach-85' Budd-1940 #4026-29,4046-55-Assign. to ACL-Seats 60 rotate-recline 2DP5 Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 07:44:12 -0400 From: Nick Kulp Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/04/02 --=====================_1139540==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >In a message dated 7/3/02 7:37:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >caseyj@mail.igateway.com writes: ><< unless you install a 12" subwoofer in the tender. >> >Can someone explain how you get a 12" speaker in an HO Tender - I think it >would be a tough job in "O" scale - even 12mm (bit less than a 1/2") would be >tight...... Obviously my statement was designed to be a sarcastic remark. It was meant to indicate that you CAN'T get decent exhaust sound from a Soundtraxx decoder. I apologize if my remark was too obscure to recognize as sarcasm. Although I have several Soundtraxx decoders I still find them lacking in true exhaust sound. Since I have worked at places like Bell Labs I can recognize someone bound for the engineering field . I will be more careful in the future. (My humble apologies to engineers I might have offended) Nick --=====================_1139540==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
In a message dated 7/3/02 7:37:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
caseyj@mail.igateway.com writes:
<< unless you install a 12" subwoofer in the tender. >>
Can someone explain how you get a 12" speaker in an HO Tender - I think it
would be a tough job in "O" scale - even 12mm (bit less than a 1/2") would be
tight......


Obviously my statement was designed to be a sarcastic remark. It was meant to indicate that you CAN'T get decent exhaust sound from a Soundtraxx decoder. I apologize if my remark was too obscure to recognize as sarcasm. Although I have several Soundtraxx decoders I still find them lacking in true exhaust sound. Since I have worked at places like Bell Labs I can recognize someone bound for the engineering field <VBG>. I will be more careful in the future. (My humble apologies to engineers I might have offended)

Nick



 --=====================_1139540==.ALT-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 08:17:53 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/04/02 "Can someone explain how you get a 12" speaker in an HO Tender?" If one uses a G-scale 12" speaker, it should fit very nicely. Occasionally a left-handed monkey wrench or a henway is required to get the &%^**$# into the tender, especially it it's a smaller size tender like those used here on Delmarva. Jim McDaniel, hoping to get some trains rolling here in Delmarva soon. [The drywall in the garage trainroom/office is being hung this week!} ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:27:33 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports Ken wrote: "Actually while the Broadway name is new the owners of the company have a long term track record in the industry. If you remember Oriental brass then you have seen past products from the same people. To me this is a big plus as they already have some idea of what they are getting into and how the average modeler reacts or at least how they used to react. -------------------- Ken McCorry -------------------------- Hmm, I've got some of their brass products from years ago, which if I recall was made in Korea. This leads me to ask, do anyone know where Broadway's plastic engines are being made: Korea or Red China? (This would make a big difference to my buying likelihood). Thanks, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 10:02:02 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR E-8 4271 Headlight From: John Sheets In Schafer and Soloman's book, Pennsylvania RR , there is a photo on ppg 35 of PRR E-8 4271 at St Louis. The engine appears to have a double headlight. The second headlight, or whatever it is, is on the door above the keystone and is painted over. Is it what it appears to be? John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:06:19 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C22342.7157FA40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Barry: It will be interesting where they come from. The first P2K steam engine (= 1st run) came from Austria. The Athearn Genesis steam engines are a joint= effort with Samhongsa in South Korea. I think that Rivarossi's new Alleg= any C&O steam engine is made in Italy. In sum, Red China is not the only place where these engines came be made.= Probably a sizable part of the cost of these engines is the labor in ass= embling them. Since most modelers have experience in building plastic mod= els, perhaps these plastic steam engines can be offered in kit form. That= would not only reduce the sales price, but could mean that the manufactu= ring of the kit could be in America. Happy 4th of July to all! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: BPX29@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 9:36 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports =20 Ken wrote: "Actually while the Broadway name is new the owners of the company have a long term track record in the industry. If you remember Oriental brass th= en you have seen past products from the same people. To me this is a big plu= s as they already have some idea of what they are getting into and how the ave= rage modeler reacts or at least how they used to react. -------------------- = Ken McCorry -------------------------- Hmm, I've got some of their brass products from years ago, which if I rec= all was made in Korea. This leads me to ask, do anyone know where Broadway's plastic engines are being made: Korea or Red China? (This would make a bi= g difference to my buying likelihood). Thanks, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C22342.7157FA40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Barry:
<= DIV> 
It will be interesting where they come from. The fi= rst P2K steam engine (1st run) came from Austria. The Athearn Genesi= s steam engines are a joint effort with Samhongsa in South Korea. I think= that Rivarossi's new Allegany C&O steam engine is made in = Italy.
 
In sum, Red China is not the only pla= ce where these engines came be made. Probably a sizable pa= rt of the cost of these engines is the labor in assembling them. Sin= ce most modelers have experience in building plastic models, pe= rhaps these plastic steam engines can be offered in kit form. That w= ould not only reduce the sales price, but could mean that the m= anufacturing of the kit could be in America.
 
=
Happy 4th of July to all!
 
Ted Andrews<= /DIV>
Carmel, Indiana  
 
----- Original Message -----
From: BPX29@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 9:36 AM
=
To: prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited impo= rts
 
Ken wrote:
"Actually while the Broadway nam= e is new the owners of the company have a
long term track record in th= e industry. If you remember Oriental brass then
you have seen past pro= ducts from the same people. To me this is a big plus as

they alrea= dy have some idea of what they are getting into and how the average
modeler reacts or at least how they used to react. --------------------=    Ken

McCorry
--------------------------
Hmm, I'v= e got some of their brass products from years ago, which if I recall
w= as made in Korea. This leads me to ask, do anyone know where Broadway'splastic engines are being made: Korea or Red China? (This would make a = big
difference to my buying likelihood).
Thanks,
Barry Peltier


-----------------------------------------------------------= ------------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.= dsop.com.
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C22342.7157FA40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AHARTPRR137@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:03:13 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Class P85R Budd Coaches --part1_113.13f57606.2a55cbc1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/4/02 2:16:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, docfoot@bellsouth.net writes: > John Sheets wrote: > > > > Does anybody know the road numbers for these cars? > > > > 60 Seats, Budd Built 1940s PRR Coach Class P85R > > > > Thnks > > John > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > John > > Car Class Info Trucks > P85R-Coach-85' Budd-1940 #4019-4023-Assign. to "South Wind"-Seats 60 > rotate-recline 2DP5 > P85R-Coach-85' Budd-1940 #4026-29,4046-55-Assign. to ACL-Seats 60 > rotate-recline 2DP5 > > Eddie > Hi John, Eddie, and others, "The Passenger Car Library, Vol. 4, Mid-Atlantic Railroads" by W. David Randall provides the following: Budd Job 96407: 6, 60-seat coaches ordered 6/40, delivered 12/40 (South Wind) Budd Job 96411: 6, 60-seat coaches ordered 7/40, delivered 12/40 (Silver Meteor) Budd Job 96412: 6, 60-seat coaches ordered 8/40, delivered 12/40 (Champion) Coaches 4019 to 4023 were painted PRR Tuscan Red (two-tone) and built for the Chicago-Miami South Wind. Identical cars left with a stainless steel finish were 4024 and 4025 built for SAL's Silver Meteor and 4026 to 4029 for the ACL's Champion. The ACL cars had a purple name plate on an otherwise stainless steel finish. The book shows photos of one of the South Wind cars and side views and an interior floor plan of the coaches. "By Streamliner, New York to Florida" by Joseph M. Welsh in the appendix "Lightweight Equipment Roster, Northeast-Florida Service" lists PRR 4046-4054 as delivered 5-6/46 by Budd and assigned to ACL service. Best regards, Andy Hart, PRRT&HS 92 --part1_113.13f57606.2a55cbc1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/4/02 2:16:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, docfoot@bellsouth.net writes:


John Sheets wrote:
>
> Does anybody know the road numbers for these cars?
>
> 60 Seats,  Budd Built 1940s  PRR Coach Class P85R
>
> Thnks
> John
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>

John

Car Class       Info    Trucks 
P85R-Coach-85' Budd-1940        #4019-4023-Assign. to "South Wind"-Seats 60
rotate-recline  2DP5   
P85R-Coach-85' Budd-1940        #4026-29,4046-55-Assign. to ACL-Seats 60
rotate-recline  2DP5   

Eddie


Hi John, Eddie, and others,

"The Passenger Car Library, Vol. 4, Mid-Atlantic Railroads" by W. David Randall provides the following:

Budd Job 96407: 6, 60-seat coaches ordered 6/40, delivered 12/40 (South Wind)
Budd Job 96411: 6, 60-seat coaches ordered 7/40, delivered 12/40 (Silver Meteor)
Budd Job 96412: 6, 60-seat coaches ordered 8/40, delivered 12/40 (Champion)

Coaches 4019 to 4023 were painted PRR Tuscan Red (two-tone) and built for the Chicago-Miami South Wind.  Identical cars left with a stainless steel finish were 4024 and 4025 built for SAL's Silver Meteor and 4026 to 4029 for the ACL's Champion.  The ACL cars had a purple name plate on an otherwise stainless steel finish.

The book shows photos of one of the South Wind cars and side views  and an interior floor plan of the coaches.

"By Streamliner, New York to Florida" by Joseph M. Welsh in the appendix "Lightweight Equipment Roster, Northeast-Florida Service" lists PRR 4046-4054 as delivered 5-6/46 by Budd and assigned to ACL service.

Best regards,

Andy Hart, PRRT&HS 92 --part1_113.13f57606.2a55cbc1_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:32:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited imports In a message dated 7/4/02 10:11:27 AM Central Daylight Time, Ted_Andrews@msn.com writes: << Since most modelers have experience in building plastic models, perhaps these plastic steam engines can be offered in kit form. >> I agree, Ted, it would be a great idea, but commercially it would flop. Seen any kits from Walthers lately? Everything they announce is ready-to-run. The average model train customer has to ask the dealer to change out his Bachmann EZmate couplers with horn-hook---he is that mechanically challenged. Don't go by the 1% of the modelers on some chatlists on the internet. As I indicated on another list, in retirement I work part-time at a hobby shop and all the hobbies---planes, trains, and automobiles, are ready-to-run oriented today. We special order kits for the 1% who ask for them. Except for a few R/C vehicles which the manufacturer doesn't even bother to offer as kits. I ran into this when I wanted a PFE reefer. They are available RTR for almost $30 list. Instead I bought an older kit from a fellow chatlist member. I have no desire to pay almost $15 to someone to do the fun part---assembly. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:48:27 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR E-8 4271 Headlight In a message dated 7/4/02 10:11:45 AM Central Daylight Time, john@mpa-inc.com writes: << In Schafer and Soloman's book, Pennsylvania RR , there is a photo on ppg 35 of PRR E-8 4271 at St Louis. The engine appears to have a double headlight. The second headlight, or whatever it is, is on the door above the keystone and is painted over. Is it what it appears to be? >> Two E8's and one BP20 had Mars lights (or was it the other way around?). Some say it was an experiment,others that the E units were requested that way in compliance with a request from the South Wind joint railroads (L&N, COG, ACL) to match those on their diesels. Presumably they thought it was a good idea with the many crossings at grade through the South that all the pool diesels on the train have the additional Mars warning light. Caveat: this is ancecdotal, not documented, information. I need to find other photos to check, but I believe the Mars light was usually on top and the regular headlight the lower door-mounted headlight. When they took out the Mars light, this would have required moving the headlight to the top position if it wasn't already there. I am relatively sure the door headlight housing in the photo is plated over and then painted. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:03:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR E-8 4271 Headlight On Thu, 4 Jul 2002 Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/4/02 10:11:45 AM Central Daylight Time, john@mpa-inc.com > writes: > > << In Schafer and Soloman's book, Pennsylvania RR , there is a photo on ppg 35 > of PRR E-8 4271 at St Louis. The engine appears to have a double headlight. > > The second headlight, or whatever it is, is on the door above the keystone > and is painted over. > > Is it what it appears to be? >> > > Two E8's and one BP20 had Mars lights (or was it the other way around?). 2 of each. the first 2 BP20s did, as well as 2 of the E units. The extra headlight housing on one of the BP20s may have disappeared after an accident; I can't remember and don't have a moment to check. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 15:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR G5s Lists, I have available for purchase a very nice HO Scale PRR G5s. Actually this is not mine but I was contacted by its owner to find it a new home. Here are the specifics: It was imported by Alco Models in the early 1980's. It is a Samhongsa Built model. It was purchased new and then professionally painted/finished in 1986. It has never seen a layou