From: "dfc PRR 7002" Subject: Re: [PRR] electrification Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 07:25:06 -0400 > I would like to know if anyone out there has the book, I >believe it's called "When the Steam Railroads Electrified ". The book is the third installment of a trilogy by Bill Middleton. The first two being "The Time of the Trolley" and "The Interurban Era". If you have an interest in electric traction this trio is worth the money. Thankfully Indiana University Press reprinted "When the Steam Railroads Electrified". Chapters cover Grand Central Terminal, New Haven, PRR into NYC, the Great Northern, the Milwaukee, several mining applications and Latin America. A new chapter brings one up to date on the Acela Express and electrification to Boston. The appendices include The technology of electrification; The motive power of electrification and The what, where and when of electrification. May I also suggest "Electric Traction on the Pennsylvania Railroad 1895-1968" by Michael Bezilla, copyright 1980 by Penn State University Press. Neither book has technical drawings, but I do not know what you are looking for. If you are close to a good book store go look before you buy or visit a person who has the books. Most museum archives on traction or the PRR may also have the books for you to peruse. DF Cramer PS: If you are near western Pennsylvania, you are welcome to visit me and view the books. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 16:25:55 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] electrification Michael Capone wrote: > I would like to know if anyone out there has the book, I believe it's called >"When the Steam Railroads Electrified ". Yes, little to add to previous comments. > Why I ask is I am thinking of buying the book and it's a bit expensive, and >I want to make sure it has the information I want. Not just the hows and whys, >I want info of the technical side of the electrification, i.e. how the locomotives > and the power plants were developed. How the testing was done and so forth. The only sources of detailed info i know of are various technical publications of the time. Some have been reprinted. Notably: "Electrification by Westinghouse' tho it has just one chapter on PRR. A better source is Proceedings of the AIEE (one of the predecessors to the IEEE). During the 30s, the designers presented professional papers at various AIEE meetings covering the electrification, power system locomotives, etc. Not available for purchase, but library work might find them, somewhere... best dwp ...the net of a million lies... -??? (tell me who,,,) There are many web sites, which say many things. -me ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Keith Pomroy" Subject: RE: [PRR] electrification Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:52:41 -0400 Listers, I also would recommend Carl Condit's book on New York's steam railroads and their electrifications. Condit is fairly technical both on the mechanics of electric motors and railroad applications and the geology of the New York area. The railroad map of the region begins to make some sense once you see the geological challenges the PRR and others faced. Plus, the book is a good primer on the development of the electric motor. (The B&O's pioneering electrification in Baltimore gets a lot of attention too.) Best, --Keith -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of davep Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 4:26 PM To: Michael Capone; PRR@yahoogroups.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] electrification Michael Capone wrote: > I would like to know if anyone out there has the book, I believe it's called >"When the Steam Railroads Electrified ". Yes, little to add to previous comments. > Why I ask is I am thinking of buying the book and it's a bit expensive, and >I want to make sure it has the information I want. Not just the hows and whys, >I want info of the technical side of the electrification, i.e. how the locomotives > and the power plants were developed. How the testing was done and so forth. The only sources of detailed info i know of are various technical publications of the time. Some have been reprinted. Notably: "Electrification by Westinghouse' tho it has just one chapter on PRR. A better source is Proceedings of the AIEE (one of the predecessors to the IEEE). During the 30s, the designers presented professional papers at various AIEE meetings covering the electrification, power system locomotives, etc. Not available for purchase, but library work might find them, somewhere... best dwp ...the net of a million lies... -??? (tell me who,,,) There are many web sites, which say many things. -me ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 01:29:50 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] dispel a few J-1 myths --part1_66.21dac73a.2a2b074e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, Are you steering these folks from first hand knowledge and recollection of from the photos (color and b&w) you've seen? I have a very good friend who flew helicopters during 1969 in Vietnam. He told me a story about the markings on one of his Company's birds in great detail. He remembered these personal markings as yellow. Well, one night we pulled out some old slides and there was the Huey just the way he remembered, except the markings were red. Photos especially color a a great help. One problem is that the standard roster shot at that time would have been a 3/4 wedge from track level rods down. You'll have to really look to find any down on shots of the tender. I have a copy of "THE PAINTING OF P.R.R. LOCOMOTIVES AND TENDERS" Special Publication No. 1, published by the Pennsylvania Research and Information Association (1972). The painting instructions they provide are dated October 8, 1929. While this information predates the J-1 class by some fourteen years there is considerable evidence that these paint practices continued through the end of steam operations. Dark Green Locomotive Finish (DGLF), the railroad called for the all locomotive wheels*, trailer truck frame*, wooden pilot beam, cylinder head, steam chest castings, cylinder jackets, boiler jacket (including inside cab), headlight, bell frame, sand box, dome, air reservoirs, running board facing strips, cab exterior (including doors) valve motion (painted parts), tender cistern exterior (sides, back, front end except coal space, molding strip between cistern and frame, tender frame (wood). to be. Black, the railroad called for locomotive wheels*, trailer truck frame*, steel pilot beam, pilot beam braces, round number plate (background), engine truck (except wheels), frames, braces, hand rails, running boards and brackets (except facing), steps, pipes, fixtures, brake rigging, deck plate, tender frame (steel), tender steps, tender trucks and wheels, tender coal space. *Please note DGLF and Black were optional for locomotive wheels and trailer truck frame. Front End Paint was used on the smokebox, stack, firebox (exposed portion), and the ash pan. Freight Car Color on the roof above rain gutters (repainting when only one coat is applied), the tender top of cistern (including rear of coal space). Three Parts Freight Car Color and One Part Black on wood cabs roof above rain gutters (repainting when two coats are applied). On steel cab roof above rain gutters (repainting when only one coat is applied). Equal Parts Freight Car Color and Black on wood cabs roof above rain gutters (new cabs), steel cab roof above rain gutters (new cabs and repainting when two or three coats are applied). Sash Color used on the cab window sash (side and rear). Interior Cab Green to the cab interior, including doors and seat boxes. Buff Lettering Color on freight and switching locomotives. All lettering on locomotive and tender, round number plate (number and border). This has gotten quite long, sorry about that. I do hope this helps. If you have other questions about this please contact me off list. Ed Martin... banned by Ed Hall, Director Cajon Division, Pacific Southwest Region, National Model Railroad Association --part1_66.21dac73a.2a2b074e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill,

Are you steering these folks from first hand knowledge and recollection of from the photos (color and b&w) you've seen?

I have a very good friend who flew helicopters during 1969 in Vietnam. He told me a story about the markings on one of his Company's birds in great detail. He remembered these personal markings as yellow. Well, one night we pulled out some old slides and there was the Huey just the way he remembered, except the markings were red.

Photos especially color a a great help. One problem is that the standard roster shot at that time would have been a 3/4 wedge from track level rods down. You'll have to really look to find any down on shots of the tender.

I have a copy of "THE PAINTING OF P.R.R. LOCOMOTIVES AND TENDERS" Special Publication No. 1, published by the Pennsylvania Research and Information Association (1972). The painting instructions they provide are dated October 8, 1929. While this information predates the J-1 class by some fourteen years there is considerable evidence that these paint practices continued through the end of steam operations.

Dark Green Locomotive Finish (DGLF), the railroad called for the all locomotive wheels*, trailer truck frame*, wooden pilot beam, cylinder head, steam chest castings, cylinder jackets, boiler jacket (including inside cab), headlight, bell frame, sand box, dome, air reservoirs, running board facing strips, cab exterior (including doors) valve motion (painted parts), tender cistern exterior (sides, back, front end except coal space, molding strip between cistern and frame, tender frame (wood). to be.

Black, the railroad called for locomotive wheels*, trailer truck frame*, steel pilot beam, pilot beam braces, round number plate (background), engine truck (except wheels), frames, braces, hand rails, running boards and brackets (except facing), steps, pipes, fixtures, brake rigging, deck plate, tender frame (steel), tender steps, tender trucks and wheels, tender coal space.

*Please note DGLF and Black were optional for locomotive wheels and trailer truck frame.

Front End Paint was used on the smokebox, stack, firebox (exposed portion), and the ash pan.

Freight Car Color on the roof above rain gutters (repainting when only one coat is applied), the tender top of cistern (including rear of coal space).

Three Parts Freight Car Color and One Part Black on wood cabs roof above rain gutters (repainting when two coats are applied). On steel cab roof above rain gutters (repainting when only one coat is applied).

Equal Parts Freight Car Color and Black on wood cabs roof above rain gutters (new cabs), steel cab roof above rain gutters (new cabs and repainting when two or three coats are applied).

Sash Color used on the cab window sash (side and rear).

Interior Cab Green to the cab interior, including doors and seat boxes.

Buff Lettering Color on freight and switching locomotives. All lettering on locomotive and tender, round number plate (number and border).

This has gotten quite long, sorry about that. I do hope this helps. If you have other questions about this please contact me off list.

Ed Martin... banned by Ed Hall, Director Cajon Division, Pacific Southwest Region, National Model Railroad Association --part1_66.21dac73a.2a2b074e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WBROUTE@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 11:47:56 EDT Subject: [PRR] PC/PRR car question --part1_48.c4dcaef.2a2b982c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, everyone I'm trying to help out a friend who took a picture back in the 70's of a PC car that is definitely X-PRR the car number is #495042. I have posted a photo on Trainorders.com I will include the link, although I'm not sure you can view the PIC without being a member. Right now I think you can see it even if your not a member. Thanks in advance. Kristopher Crawley --part1_48.c4dcaef.2a2b982c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, everyone I'm trying to help out a friend who took a picture back in the 70's of a PC car that is definitely X-PRR the car number is #495042.  I have posted a photo on Trainorders.com I will include the link, although I'm not sure you can view the PIC without being a member.  Right now I think you can see it even if your not a member.  

<http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?f=2&i=79293&t=79293>

Thanks in advance.  Kristopher Crawley --part1_48.c4dcaef.2a2b982c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:16:37 -0400 Subject: [PRR] P J & B [ Princeton Junction and Back] From: "M. E Allen" For any one who actually pays attention to these things: I just finished my annual three days at Princeton University's annual bacchanal celebrating the rites of spring and Budwiser. The Class of 1967 [35th] traditionally has a railroad theme for their parties. This year's T-Shirt was in MOW yellow with a large black keystone on the back lettered "P J & B Railroad Company" MEA ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:43:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PC/PRR car question By looking at the photo, it appears to be a old PRR X29 boxcar modified for MOW service. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:50:12 -0400 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] S Scale H30A Hi All, Here is a scan of my just finished S Scale H30A. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/S_ScaleH30A.jpg I usually have about a 1-month attention span for any project. This must have been one month + 1 hour because, I just discovered it in my collection ready for paint after I reworked it and details added some time ago. I was very happy that I had the Builders photo, so I dove right in! The Return When Empty To Mapleton PA was made up of "Mapleton" from individual decal letters. FUN FUN FUN! I do not have the correct trucks as it appeared in the Builders photo, they are correct for the H30. I keep showing the S Scale and PRR Internet community my work because I want to show that the Mighty PRR is alive and well in S Scale today. It is thriving. This is not a scratchbuilt car. It was produced by River Raisin Models http://riverraisinmodels.com about 14 years ago. I am happy to say that the ranks of HO and O scale are 1 each less as of last week because of my promotional efforts. Enjoy, Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 21:00:18 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Techmoeller address From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Thanks to everyone who responded. Someone e-mailed John and he e-mailed me asking what was up before I had a chance to send one to him. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 22:40:37 -0400 From: dwsnrhs@aol.com Subject: [PRR] ALTOONA RAILROADER'S MEMORIAL MUSEUM DIFFICULTY Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum Commentary by David W. Seidel Horseshoe Curve Chapter Historian The announced financial crisis at Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum of May 23, 2002, is, of course, disconcerting and a cause of concern to the Horseshoe Curve Chapter. Our long association, if you will read the Chapter history on our webpage, details this history. The newspaper articles are self-explanatory. But by way of confirmation, the financial difficulties at the museum are not due to mis-management or malfeasance. Much commentary by other pens offer probable causes, some of which may be valid, but uninformed speculation can be deadly to the museum's current predicament. Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum, admittedly, has grown and developed significantly since the doors opened on the original building September 21, 1980. As one of founding members (and there were many of us), we did, in fact, have a dream for Altoona in founding this museum facility. The significant improvements with the Horseshoe Curve National Historic Site Development (1992) and the development of the Master Mechanic's Building (1998) have been dramatic. Speaking for myself, I probably never thought the museum would be the world-class facility it is today, in such a short span of time. In saying this, I must add that because it is "world-class", it is, and remains, a source of great pride to see such a facility in Altoona, Pennsylvania. And the improvements continue with the K-4 project and the roundhouse construction. But, gate receipts and other revenue from visitors, railfans, and the public at large are what keep the doors open. Daily operating expenses are high due to the significant electronics, specialized lighting, and of course, in winter, heat and maintenance. But this was a known reality at the time of development. A significant drop in tourism since the 911 disaster is partly to blame. Admittedly the quality of Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum would be more typically located in a larger population center. What is the solution? Better marketing? Better financial savvy? Retrenchment? As painful as it must have been, the museum board has placed the survival of the facility as the top most priority. In doing so, staff positions including management have been sacrificed, as has the current Board of Directors. But, please understand that this Board of Directors have all been highly dedicated people genuinely interested in the mission of the museum. A major re-organization is now underway, tapping other talent in the local financial and business community, and a business plan is being developed. One of the foremost assets of Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum has been the contagious and infectious enthusiasm of Mr. Cummins McNitt who came to the museum in the development phase of the Master Mechanics Building as Curator, and most recently as Executive Director. The responsibilities of any Executive Director are many and, to paraphrase former President Harry S. Truman, "the buck stops here" at the Executive Directors desk. However, from my perspective as a docent/volunteer, I sincerely hope Mr. McNitt is retained for his demonstrated dedication and the many talents he obviously contributes to ARMM. As plans evolve for re-organization and re-structuring a new museum Board, we as the railfan community, can either be part of the solution or be part of the problem. We all have this great forum in the year 2002 of the "world wide web", where communication is instantaneous and literally world-wide in seconds. We all have our opinions, rightly or wrongly, for that is the american way. But Freedom of Speech, while one of our basic constitutional rights, is also one of responsibility. Uninformed speculation, hearsay, and inuendo can be cancerous. It isn't just Altoona's museum, it is "OUR" museum. Take pride in all of it for it is a heritage that represents us all. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 08:06:29 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] S Scale H30A Bill, Nice looking car! I was going to pick up the F&C HO H30A at the recent SER NMRA meet, but when I talked to them, they indicated that the H30 would be available shortly (~3 months), and since the H30A is too late for me... Happy Rails Bruce >Hi All, > >Here is a scan of my just finished S Scale H30A. >http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/S_ScaleH30A.jpg I usually have about >a 1-month attention span for any project. This must have been one month + 1 >hour because, I just discovered it in my collection ready for paint after I >reworked it and details added some time ago. I was very happy that I had the >Builders photo, so I dove right in! The Return When Empty To Mapleton PA was >made up of "Mapleton" from individual decal letters. FUN FUN FUN! > >I do not have the correct trucks as it appeared in the Builders photo, they >are correct for the H30. I keep showing the S Scale and PRR Internet >community my work because I want to show that the Mighty PRR is alive and >well in S Scale today. It is thriving. This is not a scratchbuilt car. It >was produced by River Raisin Models http://riverraisinmodels.com about 14 >years ago. I am happy to say that the ranks of HO and O scale are 1 each >less as of last week because of my promotional efforts. > >Enjoy, > >Bill > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] P2k Vs. Walthers Fa's Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:15:57 +0000 What are the siginificant differences bewteen Walthers FA+B's vs. P2K? Thanks. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:31:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] P2k Vs. Walthers Fa's On Mon, 3 Jun 2002 ndbprr@att.net wrote: > What are the siginificant differences bewteen Walthers > FA+B's vs. P2K? Thanks. Norm Bell The Walthers (ex-Train Miniatures) shell is crude in comparison, though I vaguely recall it to be dimensionally accurate. I sold all of mine off. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 17:24:51 -0400 From: Michael Capone Subject: [PRR] electrification This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_jgQCZpJ9ANJfsOoAuY+NlQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thank you all for your input. I am grateful to all, I've ordered the book (it has been updated to include the Amtrak part to Boston). I can't wait to start reading it. Though I'm also looking for a copy of "Electric Traction on the Pennsylvania Railroad". Someone wrote to me where I could find it, I e-mailed the bookstore with no answer as of yet. Once again thanks to all!! Mike --Boundary_(ID_jgQCZpJ9ANJfsOoAuY+NlQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Thank you all for your input. I am grateful to all, I've ordered the book (it has been updated to include the Amtrak part to Boston). I can't wait to start reading it. Though I'm also looking for a copy of "Electric Traction on the Pennsylvania Railroad". Someone wrote to me where I could find it, I e-mailed the bookstore with no answer as of yet. Once again thanks to all!!
 
Mike
--Boundary_(ID_jgQCZpJ9ANJfsOoAuY+NlQ)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] Off topic, photo in Ball Book Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:17:18 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C20B44.0AF141A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentleman, This is sort of off topic. I am looking to recreate the = scene in Don Ball's book " ... Pennsy 40's and 50s..." on page 90. = There is a box car on the float that appears to be a single door car = painted silver with the Northern Pacific red, black and white circular = logo on the side of the "A" end, and a lettered circular stencil in red = on the door. Could some one steer me in the direction of either the = model of this or the decals? Please contact me off list. The other = cars on the float are identifiable. Thanks Jim sjlash@tcis.net=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C20B44.0AF141A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gentleman,  This is sort of off = topic.  I=20 am  looking to recreate the scene in Don Ball's book " ... = Pennsy 40's=20 and 50s..."   on page 90.  There is a box car on the = float that=20 appears to be a single door  car painted silver with the Northern = Pacific=20 red, black and white circular logo on the side of the =  "A" end,=20 and a lettered circular stencil in red on the door.  Could some one = steer=20 me in the direction of either the model of this or the decals?  = Please=20 contact me off list.  The other cars on the float are=20 identifiable.   Thanks Jim   sjlash@tcis.net =
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C20B44.0AF141A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:47:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] ALTOONA RAILROADER'S MEMORIAL MUSEUM DIFFICULTY In a message dated 6/2/02 10:49:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dwsnrhs@aol.com writes: << One of the foremost assets of Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum has been the contagious and infectious enthusiasm of Mr. Cummins McNitt who came to the museum in the development phase of the Master Mechanics Building as Curator, and most recently as Executive Director. The responsibilities of any Executive Director are many and, to paraphrase former President Harry S. Truman, "the buck stops here" >> I do not know the man or the situation, but if "the buck truly stops here" shouldn't he be the first cargo jettisoned to lighten the load for survival, rather than kept on the payroll, to captain the sinking ship? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] ALTOONA RAILROADER'S MEMORIAL MUSEUM DIFFICULTY Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:40:50 -0400 I do agree. Lighten the load and start anew. As the Russians say- Tuffshitskee. Mismanagement- gets 'em every time. I am all for a new board that will adhear to policy and procedure keeping the mission of the museum at heart and mind. Their is no reason why a museum with a wealth of history as Altoona cannot hold its own. If the exonerated board could not handle the job, it was their right to step up and admit to their inability to do the task at hand and allow a plan to be implemented to keep the expansion project on target. If they knew the mechanics building project was going to put them in the red, then why attempt it? Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 10:47 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] ALTOONA RAILROADER'S MEMORIAL MUSEUM DIFFICULTY > In a message dated 6/2/02 10:49:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dwsnrhs@aol.com > writes: > > << One of the foremost assets of Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum has > been the contagious and infectious enthusiasm of Mr. Cummins McNitt who came > to the museum in the development phase of the Master Mechanics Building as > Curator, and most recently as Executive Director. The responsibilities of any > Executive Director are many and, to paraphrase former President Harry S. > Truman, "the buck stops here" >> > > I do not know the man or the situation, but if "the buck truly stops here" > shouldn't he be the first cargo jettisoned to lighten the load for survival, > rather than kept on the payroll, to captain the sinking ship? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "sjlash" Subject: Re: [PRR] Off topic, photo in Ball Book Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:29:59 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C20BE5.12238810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Evan,and All, Thanks for the reply.. I had already checked the same = sources. A note to one of the decal manufacturers provided the info. A = 50' Mechanical reefer and Microscale decals. Thanks again Jim Lash = PS An email address for NP Hist Society is, from my info, not = available ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: sjlash@tcis.net=20 Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Off topic, photo in Ball Book Jim,=20 What scale. Believe that Branchline offers/offered a 40' car in = this scheme. Do not know Branchline's website so check with our = sponsor, Merchandise Service, about this car.=20 If all else fails, then contact the NP technical and historical = society.=20 Good Luck,=20 Evan Leisey=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C20BE5.12238810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Evan,and All, Thanks for the = reply.. I had=20 already checked the same sources.  A note to one of the decal = manufacturers=20 provided the info.  A 50' Mechanical reefer and Microscale = decals. =20 Thanks again  Jim Lash     PS  An email=20 address  for NP Hist Society is, from my info, not = available
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 = 11:03=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] Off topic, = photo in=20 Ball Book

Jim, =

 What=20 scale.   Believe that Branchline offers/offered a 40' car in = this=20 scheme.  Do not know Branchline's website so check with our = sponsor,=20 Merchandise Service, about this car.

 If all else fails,=20  then contact the NP technical and historical society. =

 Good=20 Luck,

  Evan Leisey = ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C20BE5.12238810-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] RATS! Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:55:08 -0400 Listers, A friend of mine is modeling an urban terminal in the late 30's-40's. He wants to have a B1 Rat. as his terminal switcher. We were wondering about the Keystones on the side as show here: http://community.webshots.com/scripts/slides.fcgi?end=0&first=1&albumID=3752 8921&security=SdTVgl&pos=6&time=-1 We were wondering if they were the same size as the numbered keystones on the GG1 since those are the only ones I can find where you can put your own #'s in. Also the Rats had number keystones on the ends. Were they the same size? I know Champ sells 4 keystones with 1 unnumbered and Microscale has a sheet that has 2 blanks but I believe they are all GG1 keystones. If the B1's are not the same size anyone know where to get them? Thanks Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:01:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] RATS! From: Jerry Britton On 6/5/02 11:55 AM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > A friend of mine is modeling an urban terminal in the late 30's-40's. He > wants to have a B1 Rat. as his terminal switcher. We were wondering about > the Keystones on the side as show here: > http://community.webshots.com/scripts/slides.fcgi?end=0&first=1&albumID=3752 > 8921&security=SdTVgl&pos=6&time=-1 > > We were wondering if they were the same size as the numbered keystones on > the GG1 since those are the only ones I can find where you can put your own > #'s in. Also the Rats had number keystones on the ends. Were they the same > size? I know Champ sells 4 keystones with 1 unnumbered and Microscale has a > sheet that has 2 blanks but I believe they are all GG1 keystones. If the > B1's are not the same size anyone know where to get them? > I'm sure Bruce Smith will chime in as soon as he gets this. He researched this years ago, when he custom finished a B1 for me...before I switched to N scale! He did a great job, and put the numbers inside the keystones. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:55:47 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] RATS! >On 6/5/02 11:55 AM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > >> A friend of mine is modeling an urban terminal in the late 30's-40's. He >> wants to have a B1 Rat. as his terminal switcher. We were wondering about >> the Keystones on the side as show here: >> http://community.webshots.com/scripts/slides.fcgi?end=0&first=1&albumID=3752 >> 8921&security=SdTVgl&pos=6&time=-1 >> >> We were wondering if they were the same size as the numbered keystones on >> the GG1 since those are the only ones I can find where you can put your own >> #'s in. Also the Rats had number keystones on the ends. Were they the same >> size? I know Champ sells 4 keystones with 1 unnumbered and Microscale has a >> sheet that has 2 blanks but I believe they are all GG1 keystones. If the >> B1's are not the same size anyone know where to get them? >> >I'm sure Bruce Smith will chime in as soon as he gets this. He researched >this years ago, when he custom finished a B1 for me...before I switched to N >scale! Hi gang! On the sides: 18" keystone, with number, centered on sides On the front/back: 12" keystone, with number on end doors We got the blank 18" keystones from Champ. My computer is really acting cranky today ("I'm sorry, but I cannot find your hard drive...") so I can't check for you, but they have a "keystone" set... Happy rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] RATS! Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:15:57 -0400 Bruce, What did you do about the 12" keystones for the end doors? Chris -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:56 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RATS! >On 6/5/02 11:55 AM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > >> A friend of mine is modeling an urban terminal in the late 30's-40's. He >> wants to have a B1 Rat. as his terminal switcher. We were wondering about >> the Keystones on the side as show here: >> http://community.webshots.com/scripts/slides.fcgi?end=0&first=1&albumID=3752 >> 8921&security=SdTVgl&pos=6&time=-1 >> >> We were wondering if they were the same size as the numbered keystones on >> the GG1 since those are the only ones I can find where you can put your own >> #'s in. Also the Rats had number keystones on the ends. Were they the same >> size? I know Champ sells 4 keystones with 1 unnumbered and Microscale has a >> sheet that has 2 blanks but I believe they are all GG1 keystones. If the >> B1's are not the same size anyone know where to get them? >> >I'm sure Bruce Smith will chime in as soon as he gets this. He researched >this years ago, when he custom finished a B1 for me...before I switched to N >scale! Hi gang! On the sides: 18" keystone, with number, centered on sides On the front/back: 12" keystone, with number on end doors We got the blank 18" keystones from Champ. My computer is really acting cranky today ("I'm sorry, but I cannot find your hard drive...") so I can't check for you, but they have a "keystone" set... Happy rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:50:01 -0500 Subject: [PRR] GLa hopper From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" I have scanned an image of the GLa hopper at Hamburg, NY. There are actually two images. One the size of the original print and one enlarged so you can actually see the markings. Anyone want a copy - - send an e-mail. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 07:29:06 -0400 From: Rick Miskell Subject: [PRR] "MS60" Hi Group. I've noticed several references to an "MS60" on "24 hrs at Harrisburg" and in a couple other references I've accumulated but can't find this as a class anywhere. The same references note the existance of B60 and B60a as well as X-42's. Should I assume (never safe that's why I'm asking) this is really a B60 assigned to mail storage duties or is it a distinct class that no one seems to have data available for on the net? Thanks in advance. Rick Miskell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 09:02:29 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] RATS! --------------901E6941A5C7F37A21F801CC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have you considered printing them on a color laser printer and just gluing them on the model? I have been doing this for fluted, streamlined passenger car letterboards for some time now. Believe me its a hell of lot easier than spelling out RICHMOND FREDRICKSBURG AND POTOMAC one letter at a time from an alphabet set! When appropriate, and this may be one such case, I print them on clear plastic sheets used for transparency projections. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > Bruce, > > What did you do about the 12" keystones for the end doors? > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce F. Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:56 PM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] RATS! > > >On 6/5/02 11:55 AM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > > > >> A friend of mine is modeling an urban terminal in the late 30's-40's. He > >> wants to have a B1 Rat. as his terminal switcher. We were wondering > about > >> the Keystones on the side as show here: > >> > http://community.webshots.com/scripts/slides.fcgi?end=0&first=1&albumID=3752 > >> 8921&security=SdTVgl&pos=6&time=-1 > >> > >> We were wondering if they were the same size as the numbered keystones on > >> the GG1 since those are the only ones I can find where you can put your > own > >> #'s in. Also the Rats had number keystones on the ends. Were they the > same > >> size? I know Champ sells 4 keystones with 1 unnumbered and Microscale > has a > >> sheet that has 2 blanks but I believe they are all GG1 keystones. If the > >> B1's are not the same size anyone know where to get them? > >> > >I'm sure Bruce Smith will chime in as soon as he gets this. He researched > >this years ago, when he custom finished a B1 for me...before I switched to > N > >scale! > > Hi gang! > On the sides: 18" keystone, with number, centered on sides > On the front/back: 12" keystone, with number on end doors > > We got the blank 18" keystones from Champ. My computer is really acting > cranky today ("I'm sorry, but I cannot find your hard drive...") so I can't > check for you, but they have a "keystone" set... > > Happy rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin --------------901E6941A5C7F37A21F801CC Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have you considered printing them on a color laser printer and just gluing them on the model?   I have been doing this for fluted, streamlined passenger car letterboards for some time now.   Believe me its a hell of lot easier than spelling out RICHMOND FREDRICKSBURG AND POTOMAC one letter at a time from an alphabet set!  When appropriate, and this may be one such case, I print them on clear plastic sheets used for transparency projections.

Regards,

Andy Miller
asmiller@mitre.org

==================================================
"Chany, Christopher" wrote:

Bruce,

What did you do about the 12" keystones for the end doors?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce F. Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:56 PM
To: prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] RATS!

>On 6/5/02 11:55 AM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine is modeling an urban terminal in the late 30's-40's.  He
>> wants to have a B1 Rat. as his terminal switcher.  We were wondering
about
>> the Keystones on the side as show here:
>>
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/slides.fcgi?end=0&first=1&albumID=3752
>> 8921&security=SdTVgl&pos=6&time=-1
>>
>> We were wondering if they were the same size as the numbered keystones on
>> the GG1 since those are the only ones I can find where you can put your
own
>> #'s in.  Also the Rats had number keystones on the ends.  Were they the
same
>> size?  I know Champ sells 4 keystones with 1 unnumbered and Microscale
has a
>> sheet that has 2 blanks but I believe they are all GG1 keystones.  If the
>> B1's are not the same size anyone know where to get them?
>>
>I'm sure Bruce Smith will chime in as soon as he gets this. He researched
>this years ago, when he custom finished a B1 for me...before I switched to
N
>scale!

Hi gang!
On the sides:  18" keystone, with number, centered on sides
On the front/back:  12" keystone, with number on end doors

We got the blank 18" keystones from Champ.  My computer is really acting
cranky today ("I'm sorry, but I cannot find your hard drive...") so I can't
check for you, but they have a "keystone" set...

Happy rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin

--------------901E6941A5C7F37A21F801CC-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 09:09:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] RATS! From: Jerry Britton On 6/6/02 9:02 AM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > Have you considered printing them on a color laser printer and just gluing > them on the model? I have been doing this for fluted, streamlined passenger > car letterboards for some time now. Believe me its a hell of lot easier than > spelling out RICHMOND FREDRICKSBURG AND POTOMAC one letter at a time from an > alphabet set! When appropriate, and this may be one such case, I print them > on clear plastic sheets used for transparency projections. > Both Microscale and Champ sell blank decal film for use in computer printers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:31:11 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] RATS! --------------060607030706060105060602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [snip] >> >Both Microscale and Champ sell blank decal film for use in computer >printers. > Also Walthers... I have made "Cornwall Railroad" decals for list member Nick Kulp on my color ink jet printer (I use the Walthers labels as they specifically say ink jet)... Before applying them, seal them with Dullcoat so the ink doesn't run. That MAY not be necessary with a color laser (as it doesn't really use ink)... Jeff Warner --------------060607030706060105060602 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [snip] 

Both Microscale and Champ sell blank decal film for use in computer
printers.
Also Walthers...

I have made "Cornwall Railroad" decals for list member Nick Kulp on my color ink jet printer (I use the Walthers labels as they specifically say ink jet)...  Before applying them, seal them with Dullcoat so the ink doesn't run.  That MAY not be necessary with a color laser (as it doesn't really use ink)...

Jeff Warner
--------------060607030706060105060602-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:52:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Steam class repairs From: prrq2 I have been reading the interview with Clair Clugh in the Summer 1996 "Keystone". He mentions that there were 5 classes of steam repair, class 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. He does not elaborate on them, but infers that class 1 was the heaviest repair. Does anyone know what sort of repairs were included in each of the classes? This is a most interesting interview, lots of great info. TIA -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] K4 Question Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:38:34 -0400

I just got one of the new Spectrum K4's and I am considering doing some detail changes to make it more representative of the Post-War version. I am using the Kris Kollar article as a guide, but I am wondering about the water hatch. I have seen a few photos of Post-War K4 without the antenna. Does this mean that some K4's kept the original water hatch location if they did not have the antenna?
Thanks,
Eric
----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:29:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Bobby Bryzinski Subject: [PRR] South Wind drumhead Does anyone know of any good color photos or references for the "South Wind" passenger train drumhead? I have a good black and white photo from vol.II of Beebe's "The Trains We Rode", but no color info. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bob Bryzinski __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam class repairs Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 15:37:56 -0400 I rember the tour guide at the shop tour at Steamtown going into a lot of detail about class repairs, what was included in each, etc. (This was a few years ago - before 1361 arrived. They were rebuilding their 0-6-0.) An e-mail to them might get some information. I'm also interested, so does anyone have a list they can send out via the list, or direct us to a website? I don't remember seeing anything on www.steamlocomotive.com about it. Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "prrq2" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:52 PM Subject: [PRR] Steam class repairs > I have been reading the interview with Clair Clugh in the Summer 1996 > "Keystone". He mentions that there were 5 classes of steam repair, class 1, > 2, 3, 4, and 5. He does not elaborate on them, but infers that class 1 was > the heaviest repair. Does anyone know what sort of repairs were included in > each of the classes? This is a most interesting interview, lots of great > info. > > TIA > -- > Bill Ayers > Remembering the PRR in Crestline > http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam class repairs Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 15:57:45 -0400 Speaking of steam locomotive class repairs, does anyone know whether the shops at Renovo performed all classes of repairs? Especially during WWII? Does anyone know of information on which locmotive classes received which class of repair by year in Renovo? (I'll be really surprised if anyone , even on this list, can provide that last one, with the possible exception of Greg Stone [Mr. Renovo]) Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Bigler" To: "prrq2" ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam class repairs > I rember the tour guide at the shop tour at Steamtown going into a lot of > detail about class repairs, what was included in each, etc. (This was a few > years ago - before 1361 arrived. They were rebuilding their 0-6-0.) An > e-mail to them might get some information. I'm also interested, so does > anyone have a list they can send out via the list, or direct us to a > website? I don't remember seeing anything on www.steamlocomotive.com about > it. > > Bill Bigler > Modeling Renovo & > Williamsport WWII > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "prrq2" > To: "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:52 PM > Subject: [PRR] Steam class repairs > > > > I have been reading the interview with Clair Clugh in the Summer 1996 > > "Keystone". He mentions that there were 5 classes of steam repair, class > 1, > > 2, 3, 4, and 5. He does not elaborate on them, but infers that class 1 was > > the heaviest repair. Does anyone know what sort of repairs were included > in > > each of the classes? This is a most interesting interview, lots of great > > info. > > > > TIA > > -- > > Bill Ayers > > Remembering the PRR in Crestline > > http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] South Wind drumhead Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:02:15 -0400 If you can get a copy of the Tomar drumhead you should have the proper colors. Chris -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Bryzinski [mailto:bbryzinski@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:30 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] South Wind drumhead Does anyone know of any good color photos or references for the "South Wind" passenger train drumhead? I have a good black and white photo from vol.II of Beebe's "The Trains We Rode", but no color info. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bob Bryzinski __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 18:38:13 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Dennison Switchmens' Strike, 1922 In a message dated 5/30/02 8:15:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > I worked as a PRR brakeman on the Lake Region (E & A) for several years > while > attending college. The authors comments about the 1941 firemen made me > remember friction between the "old timers,"those that hired out in the > 20's,and those that had a 1925 seniority date. My memory, which I don't > have much of any more was that the old timers had a grudge against the > 1925 > men. I never knew what that was - but I think it was a class of trainmen > that was hired during a strike. Does any one know if there were strike > breakers hired in 1925 or is just a case of an assumption a youngster make > that had no basis in fact. This was not mentioned in the book > One of those things that I picked up verbally years ago, and may or may not be completely correct -- Up to 1922, Dennison was the western end of many Panhandle Div runs out of Pittsburgh -- the mileage works out about right for a 110 mile day Pittsburgh to Dennison and Dennison to Columbus. Dennison had a roundhouse, even shops, and a large classification yard. However, about this time, apparently longer runs with a train became possible. Also, since Dennison supported no branches and only a modest originating traffic, there was even less reason for reclassifying trains there. Then (the story goes) the switchmen went out on strike. I don't know how the local switchmen behaved during the strike, but after settlement, the PRR (always one to do things their way) closed the Dennison Yard and ripped it out. By 1972, when I first saw the site, it had become a healthy second-growth forest lying on the north side of the main and east of town. Of course, today, that's not that unusual for a historic Pennsy yard. It occurs to me that the other effects of closing Dennison were: 1. to make more desirable those engines who could both grunt over the Panhandle Division and then make speed west to Columbus. 2. to focus terminal facilities at Columbus. I wish for more info on how PRR in Columbus grew in between 1893 (I have a map) and WW2. Rick Tipton Now contemplating an HO layout set in Columbus in the 50's or 60's. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 18:38:13 EDT Subject: [PRR] Dennison Switchmens' Strike, 1922 --part1_d8.18c2d6c1.2a313e55_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/30/02 8:15:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > I worked as a PRR brakeman on the Lake Region (E & A) for several years > while > attending college. The authors comments about the 1941 firemen made me > remember friction between the "old timers,"those that hired out in the > 20's,and those that had a 1925 seniority date. My memory, which I don't > have much of any more was that the old timers had a grudge against the > 1925 > men. I never knew what that was - but I think it was a class of trainmen > that was hired during a strike. Does any one know if there were strike > breakers hired in 1925 or is just a case of an assumption a youngster make > that had no basis in fact. This was not mentioned in the book > One of those things that I picked up verbally years ago, and may or may not be completely correct -- Up to 1922, Dennison was the western end of many Panhandle Div runs out of Pittsburgh -- the mileage works out about right for a 110 mile day Pittsburgh to Dennison and Dennison to Columbus. Dennison had a roundhouse, even shops, and a large classification yard. However, about this time, apparently longer runs with a train became possible. Also, since Dennison supported no branches and only a modest originating traffic, there was even less reason for reclassifying trains there. Then (the story goes) the switchmen went out on strike. I don't know how the local switchmen behaved during the strike, but after settlement, the PRR (always one to do things their way) closed the Dennison Yard and ripped it out. By 1972, when I first saw the site, it had become a healthy second-growth forest lying on the north side of the main and east of town. Of course, today, that's not that unusual for a historic Pennsy yard. It occurs to me that the other effects of closing Dennison were: 1. to make more desirable those engines who could both grunt over the Panhandle Division and then make speed west to Columbus. 2. to focus terminal facilities at Columbus. I wish for more info on how PRR in Columbus grew in between 1893 (I have a map) and WW2. Rick Tipton Now contemplating an HO layout set in Columbus in the 50's or 60's. --part1_d8.18c2d6c1.2a313e55_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/30/02 8:15:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:


I worked as a PRR brakeman on the Lake Region (E & A) for several years while
attending college.  The authors comments about the 1941 firemen made me
remember friction between the "old timers,"those that hired out in the
20's,and those that  had a 1925 seniority date.  My memory, which I don't
have much of any more was that  the old timers had a grudge against the 1925
men.  I never knew what that was - but I think it was a class of trainmen
that was hired during a strike.  Does any one know if there were strike
breakers hired in 1925 or is just a case of an assumption a youngster make
that had no basis in fact.  This was not mentioned in the book


One of those things that I picked up verbally years ago, and may or may not be completely correct --

Up to 1922, Dennison was the western end of many Panhandle Div runs out of Pittsburgh -- the mileage works out about right for a 110 mile day Pittsburgh to Dennison and Dennison to Columbus.  Dennison had a roundhouse, even shops, and a large classification yard.

However, about this time, apparently longer runs with a train became possible.  Also, since Dennison supported no branches and only a modest originating traffic, there was even less reason for reclassifying trains there.

Then (the story goes) the switchmen went out on strike.  I don't know how the local switchmen behaved during the strike, but after settlement, the PRR (always one to do things their way) closed the Dennison Yard and ripped it out.  By 1972, when I first saw the site, it had become a healthy second-growth forest lying on the north side of the main and east of town.  Of course, today, that's not that unusual for a historic Pennsy yard.

It occurs to me that the other effects of closing Dennison were:
1. to make more desirable those engines who could both grunt over the Panhandle Division and then make speed west to Columbus.
2. to focus terminal facilities at Columbus.  I wish for more info on how PRR in Columbus grew in between 1893 (I have a map) and WW2.

Rick Tipton
Now contemplating an HO layout set in Columbus in the 50's or 60's. --part1_d8.18c2d6c1.2a313e55_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RStein1686@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:25:59 EDT Subject: [PRR] Books for sale For sale: 1. "Iron Horses across the Garden State" by Rosenbaum & Gallo (80pgs) 2."The Remarkable GG1" by Zimmerman (70pgs) 3."Trains of the Northeast Corridor" by Nelligan & Hartley (100 pgs) All of the above are 8 1/2 x 11 soft cover format books. $10 ea or 3 for $25 plus a bit for shipping. The following are large format hardbacks: 1."PRR 1940-1950" by Ball $25 2."Steam,Steel,&Stars" by Link $25 3."All Aboard" the golden age of American rail travel by Yenne $20 Shipping a bit extra. Please respond off list. Ron Stein near Philadelphia ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:45:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Altoona/Huntingdon Weekend Safari Greetings List, This weekend, I'll be headed out to Altoona with my two PRR buddies Ken Rideout and Greg Vlassopoulos. We''ll be gathering photos and info for the HO Altoona-Cresson layout we are building here in Philly. We are staying at the Tunnel Inn in Gallitzin. Saturday afternoon, we plan to head over to Huntingdon Pa to view HUNT Tower and check out the 60mph freight trains. Is this tower open on the weekends? We would like get inside if possible. Anyone have any info on HUNT Tower? Thanks in advance. Dave Hopson PRRT&HS PCRRHS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] OFF TOPIC/Dave Sweetland/photo credit Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:55:22 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C20D94.17F83AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List, Is there anyone out there who has an email address for Dave. = There is a photo credit I would like to discuss with him.. Date,etc. = If you could have him email me that would be great. Jim = sjlash@tcis.net=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C20D94.17F83AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List,  Is there anyone out there = who has an=20 email address for Dave.  There is a photo credit I would like to = discuss=20 with him..  Date,etc.  If you could have him email me that = would be=20 great.  Jim   sjlash@tcis.net =
------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C20D94.17F83AA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 22:25:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] "MS60" What the MS -60 means is that the equipment requirement is for 60' of mail storage not any certain car class. 2 X -29 class cars would fit the bill as well as 1 B-60. as long as 60' of mail storage is provided the equipment need is met. ----- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 Question Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 23:15:44 -0400 Thanks for the information. My next question would be, what about the tender deck on 3750? Since this was the first K4 that I have seen, I would like to model her. Thanks, Eric > [Original Message] > From: Burnley, Charles > To: ealauterbach@earthlink.net > Date: 6/6/02 4:36:05 PM > Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 Question > > Eric, > > Many K4s' did not get train phones and thus probably retained the original > water hatches. One opening, > three separately opening lids. They were linked to open individually, or all > 3 at once. The hatch was cross- > ways on the tender deck about 2 feet from the rear edge of the cistern. > Check photographs, antenna-less tenders > probably kept the original hatches. The only thing that could fool you is if > the tender had the antenna's > removed, then the hatches would remain in the "new" location. Not many > photo's of tender tops, and way,way to much > research. Pick a photo of the engine you want to model & work from that. > Tenders were moved from engine to engine > quite often, especially in the late years. > Good luck. > > Buzz > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Lauterbach [mailto:ealauterbach@earthlink.net] > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 2:39 PM > To: prr-talk > Subject: [PRR] K4 Question > > > > > > I just got one of the new Spectrum K4's and I am considering doing some > detail changes to make it more representative of the Post-War version. I am > using the Kris Kollar article as a guide, but I am wondering about the water > hatch. I have seen a few photos of Post-War K4 without the antenna. Does > this mean that some K4's kept the original water hatch location if they did > not have the antenna? > Thanks, > Eric > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For > assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. --- Eric Lauterbach --- ealauterbach@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LKeough107@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 00:19:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] fan trips// Mini-Conventions --part1_3b.279cf95b.2a318e4e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry This sounds like a plausable thing to do and may enhance the overall organization which may lead to even greater attendance at annual conventions. I would be willing to assist in putting something together in Norfolk Va. Steve Keough PRRT&HS 4340 --part1_3b.279cf95b.2a318e4e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry
   This sounds like a plausable thing to do and may enhance the overall organization which may lead to even greater attendance at annual conventions.  I would be willing to assist in putting something together in Norfolk Va.
                                                                                    Steve Keough
                                                                                     PRRT&HS 4340 --part1_3b.279cf95b.2a318e4e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 23:07:32 -0700 From: Steve B Subject: [PRR] Re: South Wind drumhead I believe there's a photo of the South Wind's observation car in "Streamliner Memories" by Mike Schafer which shows the drumhead in color. Unfortunately, I'm away from home and can't check to be sure. However, I have a menu from the South Wind dining car with the weather vane design on it, in color, and would be happy to scan or photograph it for you this weekend. Contact me off list and let me know what resolution you need for the scan. Steve Beals Los Angeles Bobby Bryzinski wrote: > Does anyone know of any good color photos or > references for the "South Wind" passenger train > drumhead? I have a good black and white photo from > vol.II of Beebe's "The Trains We Rode", but no color > info. Any help is greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Bob Bryzinski ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:35:23 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Head End Equipment Lettering / Decal Project From: Jerry Britton When passenger equipment switched from Bronze Gold (Gold Leaf) to Dulux Gold (Buff) circa 1950, did head end equipment (i.e. B60's, BM70's, R50's) switch also? A private response received in advance says they did go to Dulux, but the question is "when"? My need-to-know is for 1954, but I am guessing that perhaps head-end equipment was not repainted that often during this era, so that perhaps these cars would still be in Bronze Gold. Any opinions? I am working with a major decal manufacturer to produce sets of correct PRR road numbers for various classes of passenger (non Pullman) cars so as to eliminate the need to piece together correct numbers. The good news is that it won't even be considered a special run. The manufacturer is going to add it to their regular line. I am currently planning to include several dozen P85br's and several dozen B60b's, but the sheet will also include some P70kr's, P70gsr's, D85c's, D85d's, some other diners yet to be determined, BM70k's, BM70m's, POC85br's, PLC85, perhaps R50's, and perhaps some others. If anyone has other suggestions, please contact me off-list. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:39:55 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports Update From: Jerry Britton As a dealer, I asked: > How are things looking for the J1e production schedule? > The response: > The demonstrator models should make it toward the end of this month, and the > production models are now expected early August. > I asked: > Anything new to report on the power plant and pulling capability? > The response: > > Yes, we have made substantial improvements. We had a new sample tested by > Dean Windsor, who conducts such tests for Railmodel Journal and he measured a > tractive force of 3.1 ounces, equivalent to 72.17 cars on level track and 14.5 > cars on a 4% grade. > Things are definitely looking up...other than the delay until August...but hey, let's get it right! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Head End Equipment Lettering / Decal Project Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:47:06 -0400 Jerry, Will this manufacturer also make these decals available in HO? I assume since your an n-scaler that is the scale that your working on getting the decals made in. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:09:52 +0000 Subject: [PRR] When passenger equipment switched from Bronze Gold (Gold Leaf) to Dulux Gold (Buff) circa 1950, did head end equipment (i.e. B60's, BM70's, R50's) switch also? A private response received in advance says they did go to Dulux, but the question is "when"? My need-to-know is for 1954, but I am guessing that perhaps head-end equipment was not repainted that often during this era, so that perhaps these cars would still be in Bronze Gold. Maybe Bill Volkmer would have the definitive answer since his first assignment was at the Penn coach yard at 30th ST. station but I would think that just by the shear numbers of cars that they were changed as shopped. Perhaps the name trains got full matched sets earlier. I would suspect that some lingered possibly into the 60's. I would be more concerned about when the new cars started to appear than the old ones disappear. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:19:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Head End Equipment Lettering / Decal Project From: Jerry Britton On 6/7/02 11:47 AM, Chany, Christopher at (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > > Will this manufacturer also make these decals available in HO? I assume > since your an n-scaler that is the scale that your working on getting the > decals made in. > Yes, that's the plan, though N scale was driving the need due to the size. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:11:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] R50b lettering (was Head End Equipment Lettering / Decal In a message dated 6/7/02 10:43:55 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Any opinions? >> Not an opinion, but a question, specifically on the R50b. The latest Cylclopedia Vol. 7 which covers express reefers says the R50b switched to Deluxe gold in the 50's. This contradicts information in the Keystone of many years ago and some other sources saying these cars switched away from gold leaf lettering prior to World War II. Any answers from the list? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Athearn F-7's Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:30:08 -0400 Listers, For the 1955-1957 era, Would the Athearn f-7's normally be found in ABA or ABBA combinations? Chris Chany PS. Sorry Jerry you got this before I hit the wrong reply button when this went out the first time. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:17:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn F-7's On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Chany, Christopher wrote: > Listers, > For the 1955-1957 era, Would the Athearn f-7's normally be found in ABA or > ABBA combinations? Chris, It depends on how Athearn sold them back them ;^) (in fact, isn't the Globe/Athearn F a 1960's product?) Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn F-7's Chris, Looking through some 1950s Pittsburgh Div. dispatch sheets, PRR ran the F-7s in ABA or ABBA sets depending on train tonnage. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Athearn F-7's Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:20:46 -0500 No. It cuased quite a sensation in the middle 50s, since it was (then) a highly detailed, plastic engine whose dummy sold for just 89 cents. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 2:17 PM To: Chany, Christopher Cc: 'Bobspf@aol.com'; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn F-7's On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Chany, Christopher wrote: > Listers, > For the 1955-1957 era, Would the Athearn f-7's normally be found in ABA or > ABBA combinations? Chris, It depends on how Athearn sold them back them ;^) (in fact, isn't the Globe/Athearn F a 1960's product?) Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Athearn F-7's Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:42:33 -0400 OK guys it been a long week! I meant did the PRR's F-7's that the Athearn models portray run ABA or ABBA? thanks to Dave for taking me seriously:) Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:20:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b lettering (was Head End Equipment Lettering / On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > Not an opinion, but a question, specifically on the R50b. The latest > Cylclopedia Vol. 7 which covers express reefers says the R50b switched to > Deluxe gold in the 50's. This contradicts information in the Keystone of > many years ago and some other sources saying these cars switched away from > gold leaf lettering prior to World War II. Any answers from the list? Yeah, I noticed that too. I think its an oops on the part of the Cyclopedia given the rather extensive history presented by one of our list member of lettering on the R50b (check the January archives) being Dulux well before WWII. I'd look for a correction in volume 8 . Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:28:52 EDT Subject: [PRR] Athearn F-7's In a message dated 6/7/02 2:17:33 PM Central Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << It depends on how Athearn sold them back them ;^) (in fact, isn't the Globe/Athearn F a 1960's product?) >> Answering both questions, Bruce's first, I think the Globe F came out in the early 50's . I think that is about right because it was one of the few model rail things I could afford in my teen years (about $1 if I remember, dummy unit only). I promptly painted it in a nice forest green, my version of DGLE as I knew it from other models :-). Pennsy went away from the 6000 horsepower sets beginning with the delivery of the F3 helpers in 1949 which were ABA. They also began breaking up the Erie-builts, for example, into AA and AB sets instead of ABA as delivered. I'm not in a position to look at my other references, but when did they start the MU jumper cables in the noses? After that any combination of diesels (except Baldwins) could be found. I presume the original question referred to the mainline. Single A or AA, AB combos were used on the Peoria branch, for example. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] Athearn F-7's Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 20:31:29 +0000 I'm going to hazzard an educated guess but based on the fact that three set F3's were quickly upgraded to four units and 6000HP and three F7's should be 5250 HP that they were probably run as three unit sets in the flat lands and four unit sets of 7000HP on the Pgh and Middle divisions. Norm Bell > OK guys it been a long week! I meant did the PRR's F-7's that the Athearn > models portray run ABA or ABBA? thanks to Dave for taking me seriously:) > > Chris > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Athearn F-7's Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:45:45 -0500 The philosphy behind whether the units were run in sets of A-B-B-A or A-B-A is covered in the Herismaki books describing the transition from steam to diesel. I thin they are titled "Black Gold Black Diamonds" or something like that. -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:29 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Athearn F-7's In a message dated 6/7/02 2:17:33 PM Central Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << It depends on how Athearn sold them back them ;^) (in fact, isn't the Globe/Athearn F a 1960's product?) >> Answering both questions, Bruce's first, I think the Globe F came out in the early 50's . I think that is about right because it was one of the few model rail things I could afford in my teen years (about $1 if I remember, dummy unit only). I promptly painted it in a nice forest green, my version of DGLE as I knew it from other models :-). Pennsy went away from the 6000 horsepower sets beginning with the delivery of the F3 helpers in 1949 which were ABA. They also began breaking up the Erie-builts, for example, into AA and AB sets instead of ABA as delivered. I'm not in a position to look at my other references, but when did they start the MU jumper cables in the noses? After that any combination of diesels (except Baldwins) could be found. I presume the original question referred to the mainline. Single A or AA, AB combos were used on the Peoria branch, for example. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:39:42 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Athearn's F-7's Chris and all, I am surprised Dan Cupper didn't jump all over this... 3^) The answer can be found in the Withers Book on the F-units.The PRR broke up the set starting in the 50's as they were trying to set a standard for moving tonnage system wide. I am at work and can't give you the exact date the decision was made., but the book will tell you. I advise anyone wishng to get a good indepth look at Pennsy F-unit, but this book. This is not to say you won't see more than 3 units on a train, but it clearly documents when the PRR's buying patterns changed from 4 unit sets to 3 unit set and when they received more "A's" in their order to break up the B-uints from 4 unit sets. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 21:02:52 -0700 From: Steve Subject: [PRR] Re: South Wind drumhead Well, now that I'm home and have access to my books I have to admit I was guessing when I said the South Wind observation car was seen in "Streamliner Memories." The correct reference is "A Golden Decade of Trains: The 1950s In Color" by Robert R. Malinoski. Page four has a color photo of the author with PRR POC70R #1129 displaying the South Wind drumhead. The menu I mentioned in my previous post has the same design and colors except the rooster is in red rather than black as shown on the drumhead in the photo noted above. Steve Beals Los Angeles Bobby Bryzinski wrote: > Does anyone know of any good color photos or > references for the "South Wind" passenger train > drumhead? I have a good black and white photo from > vol.II of Beebe's "The Trains We Rode", but no color > info. Any help is greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Bob Bryzinski ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Black Gold, Black Diamonds Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 09:29:56 -0400 How many volumes of Black Gold, Black Diamonds have been released? I have the first two but can't for the life of me remember whether there was a third. TIA Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Steam Locomotive Class Repairs Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 09:39:35 -0400 For those interested in this topic I have a thread going on Railfan-Message Index at: http://www.chaski.com/cgi-bin/webbbs_food/webbbs_cfg_rfan.pl?#3200 Check that site every few days for the latest. Interesting discussion with condradictory information (what else is new?). Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 12:54:39 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Columbus replacing Dennison as a classification center/shops circa 1922? In a message dated 6/8/02 2:30:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:55:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Bob Flores > Subject: Re: Dennison Switchmens' Strike, 1922 > > I am not sure if this has any realvance, but I think > these events occured shortly after construction about > 1920, and I will have to check the facts, of the > growth of the Columbus facilities. So there might be > some possibility that these functions were carried out > in Columbus, as opposed to Dennison. Does this sound > possible. I will check with Dick Jacobs, he could > very well know. I spoke with him the other day, and > he pointed out that the drawings that he has were from > 1921, I think. Columbus was a substantial facliity by > this time. Just a maybe?? > Bob Flores > Bob, I'm looking forward to hearing about this... I agree that Dennison could not have been shut down without corresponding changes already in place in Columbus. My guess is that (assuming my Dennison story isn't full of holes, always a possibility with oral history), like honest workmen in many other situations, the switchmen in 1921/22 just picked the dumbest possible time to strike. Incidentally -- whatever else you may say about the Teamsters Union past and present -- within the transportation industry, their headquarters unit is respected for its knowledge of business and economics. The Teamsters are savvy enough to know when to hold and when to fold, and have a good track record of getting the most for their employees with the least time off striking. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 12:54:39 EDT Subject: [PRR] Columbus replacing Dennison as a classification --part1_14c.f0683bc.2a3390cf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/8/02 2:30:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:55:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Bob Flores > Subject: Re: Dennison Switchmens' Strike, 1922 > > I am not sure if this has any realvance, but I think > these events occured shortly after construction about > 1920, and I will have to check the facts, of the > growth of the Columbus facilities. So there might be > some possibility that these functions were carried out > in Columbus, as opposed to Dennison. Does this sound > possible. I will check with Dick Jacobs, he could > very well know. I spoke with him the other day, and > he pointed out that the drawings that he has were from > 1921, I think. Columbus was a substantial facliity by > this time. Just a maybe?? > Bob Flores > Bob, I'm looking forward to hearing about this... I agree that Dennison could not have been shut down without corresponding changes already in place in Columbus. My guess is that (assuming my Dennison story isn't full of holes, always a possibility with oral history), like honest workmen in many other situations, the switchmen in 1921/22 just picked the dumbest possible time to strike. Incidentally -- whatever else you may say about the Teamsters Union past and present -- within the transportation industry, their headquarters unit is respected for its knowledge of business and economics. The Teamsters are savvy enough to know when to hold and when to fold, and have a good track record of getting the most for their employees with the least time off striking. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_14c.f0683bc.2a3390cf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/8/02 2:30:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 3
   Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:55:04 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Bob Flores <bobflores99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dennison Switchmens' Strike, 1922

I am not sure if this has any realvance, but I think
these events occured shortly after construction about
1920, and I will have to check the facts, of the
growth of the Columbus facilities.  So there might be
some possibility that these functions were carried out
in Columbus, as opposed to Dennison.  Does this sound
possible.  I will check with Dick Jacobs, he could
very well know.  I spoke with him the other day, and
he pointed out that the drawings that he has were from
1921, I think.  Columbus was a substantial facliity by
this time.  Just a maybe??  
    Bob Flores


Bob,
I'm looking forward to hearing about this... I agree that Dennison could not have been shut down without corresponding changes already in place in Columbus.

My guess is that (assuming my Dennison story isn't full of holes, always a possibility with oral history), like honest workmen in many other situations, the switchmen in 1921/22 just picked the dumbest possible time to strike.

Incidentally -- whatever else you may say about the Teamsters Union past and present -- within the transportation industry, their headquarters unit is respected for its knowledge of business and economics.  The Teamsters are savvy enough to know when to hold and when to fold, and have a good track record of getting the most for their employees with the least time off striking.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_14c.f0683bc.2a3390cf_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 12:54:41 EDT Subject: [PRR] MS60 a proxy code --part1_189.8db04d8.2a3390d1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/7/02 12:33:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: "MS60" > From: "Rick Miskell" > Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 07:29:06 -0400 > > Hi Group. > I've noticed several references to an "MS60" on "24 hrs at Harrisburg" and > in a couple other references I've accumulated but can't find this as a > class > anywhere. The same references note the existance of B60 and B60a as well > as > X-42's. Should I assume (never safe that's why I'm asking) this is really > a > B60 assigned to mail storage duties or is it a distinct class that no one > seems to have data available for on the net? > Thanks in advance. > > Rick Miskell > Hi Rick -- a good question. MS60 isn't a real class. Didn't discussion a year or two ago decide this was code for any car with 60 feet of mail storage space in it? Thus, if I were the responsible car clerk, couldn't I dispatch... 1. a PRR B60b (from a cast of thousands) 2. an X42 (if one of the ten was available) 3. a New Haven 60' baggage -- or a Missouri Pacific one -- or available baggage cars from the ACL, FEC, SOU, L&N, SAL, C&O, etc. The PRR handled lots of other people's headend cars -- of course, they had to be all-steel east of Pittsburgh (thanks, Don Hess, for explaining the PRR's "firewall" for keeping wood-sheathed equipment out of the New York tunnels). I suppose in an emergency one could supply a car and a half of X29 BX's (the passenger-equipped mail storage version that sometimes carried REA markings). The one thing not allowed would be to dispatch a BM70 class -- these RPO cars had a postal compartment 60' long after conversion from the M70 family, but the RPO "furniture" would interfere with bulk carloading. I do find it fascinating that certain regularly scheduled headend hauls call for an X29, or a B60, yet others just specify an MS60 -- and this can be in the same train! Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_189.8db04d8.2a3390d1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/7/02 12:33:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: "MS60"
From: "Rick Miskell" <rmiskell+@pitt.edu>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 07:29:06 -0400

Hi Group.
I've noticed several references to an "MS60" on "24 hrs at Harrisburg" and
in a couple other references I've accumulated but can't find this as a class
anywhere.  The same references note the existance of B60 and B60a as well as
X-42's.  Should I assume (never safe that's why I'm asking) this is really a
B60 assigned to mail storage duties or is it a distinct class that no one
seems to have data available for on the net?
Thanks in advance.

Rick Miskell


Hi Rick -- a good question.

MS60 isn't a real class.  Didn't discussion a year or two ago decide this was code for any car with 60 feet of mail storage space in it?  Thus, if I were the responsible car clerk, couldn't I dispatch...

1. a PRR B60b (from a cast of thousands)
2. an X42 (if one of the ten was available)
3. a New Haven 60' baggage -- or a Missouri Pacific one -- or available baggage cars from the ACL, FEC, SOU, L&N, SAL, C&O, etc.  The PRR handled lots of other people's headend cars -- of course, they had to be all-steel east of Pittsburgh (thanks, Don Hess, for explaining the PRR's "firewall" for keeping wood-sheathed equipment out of the New York tunnels).

I suppose in an emergency one could supply a car and a half of X29 BX's (the passenger-equipped mail storage version that sometimes carried REA markings).  The one thing not allowed would be to dispatch a BM70 class -- these RPO cars had a postal compartment 60' long after conversion from the M70 family, but the RPO "furniture" would interfere with bulk carloading.

I do find it fascinating that certain regularly scheduled headend hauls call for an X29, or a B60, yet others just specify an MS60 -- and this can be in the same train!



Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_189.8db04d8.2a3390d1_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 19:14:46 -0400 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] MS60 a proxy code Rick & List- According to my records & the 1953 ORPTE, MS60 was a separate, distinct class. My list states the following: MS60- X-42 -60' Mail Storage Car-Blt.1950- #2540-2549- 2D-F32 1/53 ORPTE lists; MR- Postal Storage-steel- #2540-2549- 60'- 62'7"- 10 cars. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 21:46:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] MS60 a proxy code In a message dated 6/8/02 6:22:56 PM Central Daylight Time, docfoot@bellsouth.net writes: << According to my records & the 1953 ORPTE, MS60 was a separate, distinct class. My list states the following: MS60- X-42 -60' Mail Storage Car-Blt.1950- #2540-2549- 2D-F32, etc >> I am intrigued by your input and it certainly is food for thought, but the X-42 was built in 1950 and my August 1945 passenger consists refer to MS60 and I believe my prewar consists do as well. I wonder if the reference in your ORPTE to X-42 after MS60 was not a mutually exclusive term, but merely gave the MS60 designation to the X42, among others. I confess all my research is secondary and is not primary, but my most recent understanding was as stated by a couple posters, that MS60 was the term for a postal requirement for 60 feet of mail storage space, to be filled by a B60, B70, two X29s, a B74, whatever met the minimum. Bob Zoeller Bayside, WI ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] MS60 a proxy code Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 21:50:46 -0400 I also have an equipment diagram that shows class MS60. It's shown on the same page as class B60 with the notation that the MS60 has stanchions while the B60 did not but were otherwise identical. Notes on a photocopy of the diagram from Bob Johnson mention that the MS60 was added to the diagram on 4/24/1916 and the photocopy's revision dated 6/8/31 has the MS60 crossed off. I'm not sure if in '31 the MS60's and B60's were merged and afterwards the MS60 became a proxy class as has been mentioned but it does appear that there was for a while at least a true class MS60. There's also an undated diagram for a MS70 which was never built... Also, it's obvious that the cars in the diagram I have aren't the cars mentioned by Edmond. His list is more indicative of the MS60 being an alias for other classes, in his example the X42's... Unfortunately the MS60 diagrams aren't on my site yet.. As soon as I find the time I have an inch thick pile of photocopies of passenger car diagrams from Bob to scan and these are in the stack.. Rob http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Dr. Edmond L. Freed Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 7:15 PM To: RickTipton@aol.com; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] MS60 a proxy code Rick & List- According to my records & the 1953 ORPTE, MS60 was a separate, distinct class. My list states the following: MS60- X-42 -60' Mail Storage Car-Blt.1950- #2540-2549- 2D-F32 1/53 ORPTE lists; MR- Postal Storage-steel- #2540-2549- 60'- 62'7"- 10 cars. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 10:40:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Black Gold, Black Diamonds From: Jerry Britton On 6/8/02 9:29 AM, William Bigler at (wbigler@stny.rr.com) wrote: > How many volumes of Black Gold, Black Diamonds have been released? I have > the first two but can't for the life of me remember whether there was a > third. TIA > In the back of volume two, Hirskimaki states that the plan is for five volumes, with the fifth being a recap. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 11:31:17 -0700 Subject: RE: [PRR] MS60 a proxy code Hi Rob, Eddie, & list members, Rob wrote: > I also have an equipment diagram that shows class MS60. It's shown > on the same page as class B60 with the notation that the MS60 has > stanchions while the B60 did not but were otherwise identical. > Notes on a photocopy of the diagram from Bob Johnson mention that > the MS60 was added to the diagram on 4/24/1916 and the photocopy's > revision dated 6/8/31 has the MS60 crossed off. Also Eddie wrote: > According to my records & the 1953 ORPTE, MS60 was a separate, distinct > class. This all is in sync with what I have & know about the class. I have a copy of PRR photo collection image #7453 entitled "MS-60 Postal Storage Car 7298, side view, reproduction" Image shows a plain B60 (not B60b) car, still as-built with the four windows on each side. The windows have security bars on the interior. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 11:31:17 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Passenger-equipped X29 w/o REA lettering Hi list, The MS-60 discussion got me thinking of another topic I have been meaning to ask about. Were passenger-equipped X29 cars always lettered for Railway Express Agency (or predecessor American Railway Express)? Or were some passenger-equipped X29 cars painted w/o REA lettering? I'm thinking that there must have been services for some of these cars, such as storage mail or movement of company supplies, which would have been entirely unrelated to REA in any way... Anyone know anything more definitive on this topic? - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 14:46:56 -0500 From: Randy Williamson Subject: [PRR] New PRR Diesel Book Have I missed the announcement but I noticed in the latest issue of Mainline Modeler that they are bringing out a book on PRR diesels 1924-1968. There can never be enough books written on the Pennsy. Randy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRR MP54 Model question From: "mkwb@excite.com" Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:17:41 -0400 (EDT) --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__2f1504fd1c3dc2a1f2b86f4154b00dce Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Two questions concerning the model market for HO scale PRR MP54 MU cars: 1) I'm preparing to produce resin kits for these cars. (One-piece bodies, metal floors and trucks, pantographs.) Right now, I'm only planning to produce the coach version. Is there significant interest in the other types (combine, baggage, etc.)? Would anyone like to see these produced in addition to the coaches? 2) Does anyone have a Railworks MP54 powered or dummy coach they'd like to sell me? (Painted or unpainted, it doesn't matter.) If not, can you provide a lead? I know of a few places that have some 2-car sets, but I'd rather get just a single unit if possible. Thanks, Mike Bartel Imperial Hobby Productions http://ihphobby.tripod.com mkwb@excite.com ------------------------------------------------ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__2f1504fd1c3dc2a1f2b86f4154b00dce Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all,

Two questions concerning the model market for HO scale PRR MP54 MU cars:

1) I'm preparing to produce resin kits for these cars. (One-piece bodies, metal floors and trucks, pantographs.) Right now, I'm only planning to produce the coach version. Is there significant interest in the other types (combine, baggage, etc.)? Would anyone like to see these produced in addition to the coaches?

2) Does anyone have a Railworks MP54 powered or dummy coach they'd like to sell me? (Painted or unpainted, it doesn't matter.) If not, can you provide a lead? I know of a few places that have some 2-car sets, but I'd rather get just a single unit if possible.

Thanks,

Mike Bartel
Imperial Hobby Productions
http://ihphobby.tripod.com
mkwb@excite.com





Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web! --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__2f1504fd1c3dc2a1f2b86f4154b00dce-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] MS60 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:22:45 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0136_01C20FEB.08703DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I researched the B-60 history last year for publication and found = reference to B-60's that were outfitted with mail bag hanging hooks. = These appear to only have been in use for a short time then the cars = were remodeled and the mail fixtures scrapped. Below are several quotes = relating to the MS-60 that I wrote in my article.=20 PRR tracing C68288B "B60, MS60 General Arrangement" notes that "Windows = have been removed 4-25-1924". =20 In the late 1920's, the MS60's were phased out and rebuilt as B60's, = adding to the fleet. The actual date the phasing out process began may = coincide with the introduction of the B60b. This was an easy rebuild as = class MS60 differed from B60 in only three ways: by having stanchions = inside for hanging mail sacks, by the mail bag crash bars in the = windows, and the lettering "United States Mail Storage" instead of = listing an express company name.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RickTipton@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 12:54 PM Subject: [PRR] MS60 a proxy code In a message dated 6/7/02 12:33:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, = PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: "MS60" From: "Rick Miskell" Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 07:29:06 -0400 Hi Group. I've noticed several references to an "MS60" on "24 hrs at = Harrisburg" and in a couple other references I've accumulated but can't find this as = a class anywhere. The same references note the existance of B60 and B60a as = well as X-42's. Should I assume (never safe that's why I'm asking) this is = really a B60 assigned to mail storage duties or is it a distinct class that = no one seems to have data available for on the net? Thanks in advance. Rick Miskell Hi Rick -- a good question. MS60 isn't a real class. Didn't discussion a year or two ago decide = this was code for any car with 60 feet of mail storage space in it? = Thus, if I were the responsible car clerk, couldn't I dispatch... 1. a PRR B60b (from a cast of thousands) 2. an X42 (if one of the ten was available) 3. a New Haven 60' baggage -- or a Missouri Pacific one -- or = available baggage cars from the ACL, FEC, SOU, L&N, SAL, C&O, etc. The = PRR handled lots of other people's headend cars -- of course, they had = to be all-steel east of Pittsburgh (thanks, Don Hess, for explaining the = PRR's "firewall" for keeping wood-sheathed equipment out of the New York = tunnels). I suppose in an emergency one could supply a car and a half of X29 = BX's (the passenger-equipped mail storage version that sometimes carried = REA markings). The one thing not allowed would be to dispatch a BM70 = class -- these RPO cars had a postal compartment 60' long after = conversion from the M70 family, but the RPO "furniture" would interfere = with bulk carloading. I do find it fascinating that certain regularly scheduled headend = hauls call for an X29, or a B60, yet others just specify an MS60 -- and = this can be in the same train! Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0136_01C20FEB.08703DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I researched the B-60 history last year = for=20 publication and found reference to B-60's that were outfitted with mail = bag=20 hanging hooks.  These appear to only have been in use for a short = time then=20 the cars were remodeled and the mail fixtures scrapped.  Below are = several=20 quotes relating to the MS-60 that I wrote in my article. 

PRR tracing C68288B "B60, MS60 General Arrangement" notes that = "Windows have=20 been removed 4-25-1924". 

In the late 1920's, the MS60's were phased out and rebuilt as B60's, = adding=20 to the fleet. The actual date the phasing out process began may coincide = with=20 the introduction of the B60b. This was an easy = rebuild as=20 class MS60 differed from B60 in only three ways: by having stanchions = inside for=20 hanging mail sacks, by the mail bag crash bars in the windows, and the = lettering=20 "United States Mail Storage" instead of listing an express company name. =

 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20