Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 18:19:08 +1000 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: [PRR] GG1 equipment This will probably sound a silly question but.... Did any or all of the GG1s have any form of regenerative or dynamic braking? I have just seen an oblique reference to 'dynamic' braking on the GGs in an old notebook published by General Electric in 1948. Mick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:04:39 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 equipment I think all electric locos (and street cars) had the "dynamic" braking ability - but they didn't waste the extra energy - they put it back up into the overhead wire, for use elsewhere - I remember reading - in an old "Trains" how the GN had electric meters (from the power company) that ran both directions - once a train crested the Cascades - the meter started to run backwards. Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Proto 1000 F3A units Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 08:15:45 -0400 Steve & group, Thanks for the input. I might give it a try, I like a challenge. Sam >From: "Steve Hoxie" >To: >Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Proto 1000 F3A units >Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:56:21 -0500 > >Hi Sam--They run ok. For appearances-- > >--Remove the pilot, replace with an Intermountain Passenger Pilot. > >--Add nose lift rings, preferably CalScale 190-415 which will stay on much >better than the Detail Associates part. > >--Depending on the year you model, add Detail Associates 229-2215, Grab >Irons for F and E units. > >--The hardest part: locate and cut two rectangular holes for the dynamic >brake grills. > >--Add Detail Associates Eye Bolt Lift Rings 229-1101. > >--Add the antenna system, CalScale 190-402. For details of the >installation >of the antenna on the rear of F units, the photo on page Pennsy Power II >remains our best reference. However, Greg Martin has sent out a photo of >the right rear of an F3 which I can forward offlist if you want. > >--Scrape off the handrails and replace with wire. > >That about does it except for cut levers and MU hoses on the rear and >windshield wipers. > >The bottom line--they are ok, but they require a lot of work to get right >for the PRR. There are easier ways to go. > >Steve Hoxie >Pensacola FL > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Sam Vastano McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. PH 724-368-8040 X243 Fax 724-368-9677 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 equipment Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 12:57:32 +0000 PCC class Trolleys used magnetic brakes. If you have ever seen one running you will see a horizontal bar outboard on the truck bouncing up and down a couple of inches above the rail. This would become a magnet when current was applied and clamp down on the rail to stop the car. I don't know about G's but I doubt they did have regenerative braking. I would suspect the FF-1's did however. > I think all electric locos (and street cars) had the "dynamic" braking > ability - but they didn't waste the extra energy - they put it back up into > the overhead wire, for use elsewhere - > I remember reading - in an old "Trains" how the GN had electric meters (from > the power company) that ran both directions - once a train crested the > Cascades - the meter started to run backwards. > Dick > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 09:45:52 -0700 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 equipment ndbprr@att.net wrote: > PCC class Trolleys used magnetic brakes. If you have > ever seen one running you will see a horizontal bar > outboard on the truck bouncing up and down a couple of > inches above the rail. This would become a magnet when > current was applied and clamp down on the rail to stop > the car. Just so. More like dynamics than strict regen. > I don't know about G's but I doubt they did > have regenerative braking. It's not mentioned in the operators handbook, or in the technical descriptions in the trade press when the GG1s were new. >I would suspect the FF-1's did however. Quite possible: FF1 used induction motors: regen is (nearly) 'free' with those. FF1 was (to some extent) intended as a test bed for mountain grade electrification, where regen would be useful. Regen (and dynamics) costs money. More or less added equipment has to be designed, installed and maintained. While 'some' energy is recovered, energy is actually one of the least costs in RR operation. In flat profiles and infrequent stop service, it adds little. Grade operation, or frequent stops (eg: transit) change the balance. >>I think all electric locos (and street cars) had the >>"dynamic" braking ability cf above. It costs money to add regen. It was designed in where needed. >>- but they didn't waste the extra energy - they put it back up into >>the overhead wire, for use elsewhere - That's the definition of regen. When used on diesels (and even some electrics) with braking resistors, the term is 'dynamic'. Savings in brake gear wear, wheel wear, and improved train handling justify it, even with no energy recovery, when the grades justify it. >>I remember reading - in an old "Trains" how the GN had electric >>meters (from the power company) that ran both directions All power meters will. >> - once a train crested the Cascades - the meter started to run >>backwards. If no other trains were on the upgrade. GN used motor generator (later) electrics, which were designed for regen, due to the grades. CMStP&P was the first large scale user of e-loks capable of regen, and had provision for metering power back to the power grid. If an quote from the "GE Notebook" were provided, it might be interesting. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:30:56 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Updated Convention Forecast From: Jerry Britton Public service announcement... The updated weather forecast for the PRRT&HS convention, for those who are packing, is as follows... Thursday Strong storms High of 77 Friday Partly cloudy High of 60 Saturday Partly cloudy High of 71 Sunday Partly cloudy High of 75* *The live steam open house is weather dependent. This is a favorable forecast. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 11:40:58 -0500 Subject: [PRR] FW: Old Stone Bridge in Johnstown From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" My brother sent me this. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 While looking up information on the Portage Railroad for my field trip next weekend, I came across this website. If you are interested in railroad bridge designs, this one might fascinate you. The bridge was built by the Pennsylvania Railroad in 1887-88 and was strong enough to withstand the 1889 Johnstown flood. In fact, it acted as a dam to catch the debris. After the flood subsided, the debris caught fire and a myriad of people trapped in the debris who had survived the flood were burned alive. So its history is far greater than just the railroad. http://www.railroadextra.com/jfbridge.Html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 15:10:36 -0400 From: Charles Ring Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 equipment VVA249@aol.com wrote: > I think all electric locos (and street cars) had the "dynamic" braking > ability - but they didn't waste the extra energy - they put it back up into > the overhead wire, for use elsewhere - > I remember reading - in an old "Trains" how the GN had electric meters (from > the power company) that ran both directions - once a train crested the > Cascades - the meter started to run backwards. > Dick > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. with AC power such as the 25cps used by the GG-1, how could it synchronize the waveform so as to boost and not buck the supply? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 19:01:27 -0400 From: Mark Murtha Subject: [PRR] #120 sighting today While in Newark, NJ, today, I saw restored passenger car #120 at the end of an Amtrak passenger train pulling out of Penn Station heading south toward Philadelphia. Mark Murtha Willow Grove, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] GG1 equipment Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 20:50:38 -0400 The GG1's had A/C series commutator motors. The wiring to change an A/C reciprocating device from using electricity to producing electricity would be extremely complex. Usually A/C motors stay motors and alternators stay alternators. The wiring may have been set up to provided high current to the rotor during low speed operations (hence the need for a commutator on an A/C motor), a typical industrial application of an A/C motor. Remember that 11K HP short time rating. Remember back in the mid 30's there was no silicon technology (GE's E2b of 1951), and arc technology was early in the development stage (Baldwin/Westinghouse E2c and E3B of 1951 and the first 60 of the E44s). The last 6 came with the "new" solid-state rectifiers; the other 60 got them too. The PRR did use dynamic brakes on the E44s. How much money did the Pennsy waste on insisting GE use the arc tube rather then GE's rectifiers? But that's for another thread. Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com.trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Mick Molloy Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:19 AM To: PRR Talk Discussion Group Subject: [PRR] GG1 equipment This will probably sound a silly question but.... Did any or all of the GG1s have any form of regenerative or dynamic braking? I have just seen an oblique reference to 'dynamic' braking on the GGs in an old notebook published by General Electric in 1948. Mick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 22:31:11 -0400 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] Rare PRR & PRSL Baldwin Builders photos Hi All, I have listed a few rare Baldwin PRR & PRSL Builders photos. Perhaps you bid against me recently for the negatives. :) Here is you chance to own the photos without the exposure to the hazardous chemicals! I will be listing more including PRSL #6007 and #6024 when I return from the PRR T & HS convention. Please give a look. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1098292295 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1098294363 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1098420146 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1098423255 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1098426556 Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 22:46:28 -0700 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 equipment Wayne S. Betty wrote: > The GG1's had A/C series commutator motors. > The wiring to change an A/C reciprocating Reciprocating??? > device from using electricity to producing electricity would >be extremely complex. It's exactly like that used to do dynamic braking on diesels, tho a bit more complex to match phase. >Usually A/C motors stay motors and alternators stay alternators. check the N&W, VGN and GN electrics. Check any elevator system. Induction (and synchronous) type motors regen 'automatically' when driven over synchronous speed. > The wiring may have been set up to provide high current to the >rotor during low speed operations ?? Basic motor control theory is to maintain current constant as the motor accelerates. cf the GG1 schematics. > (hence the need for a commutator on an A/C motor), The commutator provides for the reversal of the magnetic polarity as the motor rotates. Control is by tap changing. > a typical industrial application of an A/C motor. RR traction is different in many regards. (in fact: 'field shunting' allows higher relative current to the rotor (armature) as speed goes UP.) > Remember that 11K HP short time rating. Indeed. I can't see any relation to regeneration? > Remember back in the mid 30's there was no silicon technology >(GE's E2b of 1951), and arc technology was early in the >development stage (Baldwin/Westinghouse E2c and E3B of 1951 and >the first 60 of the E44s). The last 6 came with the "new" >solid-state rectifiers; the other 60 got them too. > The PRR did use dynamic brakes on the E44s. >How much money did the Pennsy waste on insisting GE use the >arc tube rather then GE's rectifiers? How much would it have cost if the _experimental_ solid state gear had gone wrong? Did PRR 'insist' or did GE supply? best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "erik seidelmann" Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 21:43:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] #120 sighting today Does anyone have any info on the circle trip around Phila.? I heard a rumor that 5809, 5711 and 120 are making a trip around "the belt line". ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Murtha Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 19:01:27 -0400 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] #120 sighting today > While in Newark, NJ, today, I saw restored passenger car #120 at the end of > an Amtrak passenger train pulling out of Penn Station heading south toward > Philadelphia. > > Mark Murtha > Willow Grove, PA > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] #120 sighting today Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 23:37:31 -0400 Wednesday May 8th their is an event going on at the Hyatt Regency Penns Landing. I heard May 9th at 2pm the E-8's will depart from the front of the Hyatt on Delaware Ave(Christopher Columbus Blvd???) toward/through Greenwich up I believe through East Side yard to CP-Belmont, then back over the high line and down the elevated branch through Greenwich again and back up to the Hyatt. Dont quote me on this, I heard something of the sort. I can't remember exactly. Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: "erik seidelmann" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] #120 sighting today > Does anyone have any info on the circle trip around Phila.? I heard a rumor that 5809, 5711 and 120 are making a trip around "the belt line". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Murtha > Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 19:01:27 -0400 > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] #120 sighting today > > > > While in Newark, NJ, today, I saw restored passenger car #120 at the end of > > an Amtrak passenger train pulling out of Penn Station heading south toward > > Philadelphia. > > > > Mark Murtha > > Willow Grove, PA > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "dfc PRR 7002" Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 equip/ electric trolleys Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 05:56:58 -0400 Virtually all electric trolleys have an emergency form or dynamic braking. You perform different action depending upon the controller type. The dynamic (or regenerative) braking operation will slow a car to 3-4 MPH and then the hand brake must be used. On cars with K controllers, you move the controller to the off position, move the reverser key the opposite direction of travel, move the main overhead canopt switch to off and then move the controller to full parallel and wind up the hand brake. On cars with HL controllers you move the controller to the off position, move the reverse key to the opposite direction of travel and quickly take one point of power with the controller and back off. Then wind the hand brake. PCC cars are foot controller cars. You push the brake pedal to the floor and move the reverser to the neutral position. The track brake (magnetic) is an emergency/parking brake. There are other brakes on the car. You never want to get into a slide, a rolling vehicle will stop faster than a sliding one. DF Cramer > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "dfc PRR 7002" Subject: [PRR] Rare Mileage Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 06:03:40 -0400 http://www.ohiocentralrr.com/trolley/index.html Enjoy a train ride over a former PRR branch that winds along the Chartiers Creek Valley. This line has not seen a passenger train on it since the late 1950's. The Pennsylvania Trolley Museum and the Ohio Central Railroad are offering 3 fun filled days of excursions over this very scenic and wonderfully historic railroad line. All excursions will leave at the East Main Street crossing in downtown Carnegie, PA and take you to the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum in Washington, PA. Times and schedules are as follows: August 3 & 4, 2002 Depart Carnegie 10 am Arrive Arden 12 noon Lunch & layover at Pennsylvania Trolley Museum for 2 ½" hours. Depart Arden 2:30 pm Arrive Carnegie 4:30 pm Ticket prices for August 3, 4, box lunch included; Adults $35.00 Children $30.00 August 10, 2002 Dp Carnegie 9am Ar Arden 11am Layover at Pennsylvania Trolley Museum & Washington County Fair Grounds for 4 hours. Dp Arden 3pm Ar Carnegie 5pm Ticket price; includes County Fair admission; Adults $35.00 Children $30.00 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 08:31:50 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] #120 sighting today Considering Amtrak's situation, they may be kidnapping it for ransom ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Mark Murtha wrote: > While in Newark, NJ, today, I saw restored passenger car #120 at the end of > an Amtrak passenger train pulling out of Penn Station heading south toward > Philadelphia. > > Mark Murtha > Willow Grove, PA > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 18:49:25 -0700 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] telephone poles > The poles lining the PRR right of ways were the > heart of the inductive "Trainfone" communication > system Sometimes. The coverage was less than system wide. > that allowed towers to communicate, along > non-electrified lines, with train crews in locomotive > or cabin cars equipped with the Pennsy's distinctive > inductive loop antenna some called "hand rails" train > watchers and modelers unfamiliar with the "Standard > Railroad of the World." > Each pole supported 24 lead-clad copper lines. > Weathered, they appeared like to dark grey. The green > of oxidized copper would only appear where the lead > casing was stripped from the lines. This would not be > seen until the worm (Penn Central's intertwined PC > herald) ate the the Keystone (Merger with NYC 1/1/68). > These lines were heavy. They were supported four > crossbars which carried six lines, three on either > side of the pole. Because of the weight of their load > this "trademark" sighting cues of a PRR line was > carried on what seems to be extremely close set > centers, only from 100' to 150' apart, when compared > with other utility lines. These are standard comms cabling, used for signal control wiring, dispatchers phone (non trainfone) and usually a couple with AC power for the rest. These SAME WIRES (standard to any RR) were used by the trainfone system on divisions so equipped. > The Trainfone was a passive system in that no real > signals were transmitted. Transmission was by relatively low powered, low frequency FM transmitters, both in towers and equipped loks and cabin cars. > The receivers detected flucuations in the magnetic fields >of with the trackside line or train borne Pie pan like\ >inductive senders. The intense fields surrounding electrified > lines prevented use along electrified line. Trainfone worked fine in electrified areas, as the catenary and other OHLE carried the signals. The trainfone was on 30 odd KHz, well away from the 25 Hz of the traction supply. There seem to have been two reasons for not using trainfone more in the electrified areas: It worked TOO WELL, due to the OHLE carrying the trainfone signals: they propagated too far, leading to jamming of conversations. Electrified territories had, in general, frequent towers, set up for high traffic, so adding another com system was unnecessary. > Voice signals were ony part of the data transmitted along this >lines. cf above. The com lines were for conventional phone, telegraph and signal, with trainfone usage piggy backing. > Because apparently [they?] were used to carry some CTC or >signaling information, these poles could be seen along ex-PRR >lines still in use until at least the late 1980s. cf above. This is the principal use, trainfone was an added benefit. These signals were in either baseband, or carrier, independent of trainfone. (I'm paraphrasing from an article by the system manufacturer, in Railway Signalling & Communication, ca 1947.) > You'd most likely find them along those > CTC-equipped lines. In western Ohio that meant the > PRR's Columbus-Cincinnati, -St. Louis, and -Chicago > lines carried the lines while the 142-mile Zanesville > branch, the longest unsignalized line east of the > Mississippi, the Springfield branch and the > Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern did not have the poles. Just so. No signals, no need for poles to support signal wires. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Bachmann K-4 Question Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 21:22:30 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F21F.778CAAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PRR-Listers: I am about to purchase a new Bachmann Spectrum K-4 Pacific. This is the l= atest release with the re-worked boiler. =20 Does Bachmann include a parts list in the box? If so, do they list the re= -worked boiler as a part that can be ordered separately? TIA Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F21F.778CAAE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
PRR-Listers:
 
I am about to purchase a new Bachmann Spectru= m K-4 Pacific. This is the latest release with the re-worked boiler.
 
Does Bachmann include a parts list in the box? = If so, do they list the re-worked boiler as a part that can be ordered se= parately?
 
TIA
 
T= ed Andrews

------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F21F.778CAAE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 23:24:38 -0400 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: RE: [PRR] #120 sighting today You guys are bad!!!!! FYI Yesterday, 5/1/02, Bennet Levins PRR120 and what appears to be an ex Sunset Coffee Shop tavern were on the Rear of # 91 NYP to FLA. In honor of this occasion, the normal 1 to 3 roadrailers were not added on at PHL. Rumor had it that Amtrak's new Reichfuhrer David Gunn was a guest. JW -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Andrew S. Miller Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 8:32 AM To: Mark Murtha Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] #120 sighting today Considering Amtrak's situation, they may be kidnapping it for ransom ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Mark Murtha wrote: > While in Newark, NJ, today, I saw restored passenger car #120 at the end of > an Amtrak passenger train pulling out of Penn Station heading south toward > Philadelphia. > > Mark Murtha > Willow Grove, PA > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JSZARMACH@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 08:06:01 EDT Subject: [PRR] RR Museum of PA If there is anyone on the list that is an active member or administrator of the Railroad Museum of PA, would you kindly email me? I have a few questions I would like to ask off-list. Thanks! Joseph Szarmach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:19:29 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann K-4 Question AFAIK Bachmann does not sell parts. PRR fans have been pleading for their passenger car trucks for years, to no avail. I would love to be able to buy the underbody details from their Pullman, or the 110P-84 tender for their K4. Ted Andrews wrote: > PRR-Listers: I am about to purchase a new Bachmann Spectrum K-4 > Pacific. This is the latest release with the re-worked boiler. Does > Bachmann include a parts list in the box? If so, do they list the > re-worked boiler as a part that can be ordered separately? TIA Ted > Andrews > -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 08:49:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann K-4 Question In a message dated 5/3/02 7:30:35 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << AFAIK Bachmann does not sell parts. >> Well, they will, but only in major assemblies. Thus, if you need a brush for the K4 motor, they will sell you a new motor and flywheel assembly for $24.50. Every other time I have looked for a part, the bill always seems to wind up $24.00. Fortunately, when I lost the brush, I had a scrap box full of the Spectrum K4's of their early production pieces of ---- that I could cannibalize. I will have to get out some of those older boilers to compare again. If Bachmann improved the new boiler it isn't obvious to me, but I will reserve judgment until I do the actual comparison. Was it also supposed to be an improvement over their first run of the DCC-ready versions? If so, that isn't obvious to me either, but I will compare the two when I go to the club (where mine currently reside) in the next two days. Should be an easy comparison as they almost always have to be double-headed to pull a train of 5 or more cars. End of sarcasm for the day (I promise). In fairness, the new DCC-ready mechanisms run smoother and don't have the characteristic lope of their predecessors. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:59:29 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] #120 sighting today Pretty Close, but a day early! Bennett "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." wrote: > > Wednesday May 8th their is an event going on at the Hyatt Regency Penns > Landing. I heard May 9th at 2pm the E-8's will depart from the front of the > Hyatt on Delaware Ave(Christopher Columbus Blvd???) toward/through Greenwich > up I believe through East Side yard to CP-Belmont, then back over the high > line and down the elevated branch through Greenwich again and back up to the > Hyatt. Dont quote me on this, I heard something of the sort. I can't > remember exactly. > Greg V > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "erik seidelmann" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:43 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] #120 sighting today > > > Does anyone have any info on the circle trip around Phila.? I heard a > rumor that 5809, 5711 and 120 are making a trip around "the belt line". > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Mark Murtha > > Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 19:01:27 -0400 > > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > > Subject: [PRR] #120 sighting today > > > > > > > While in Newark, NJ, today, I saw restored passenger car #120 at the end > of > > > an Amtrak passenger train pulling out of Penn Station heading south > toward > > > Philadelphia. > > > > > > Mark Murtha > > > Willow Grove, PA > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com > > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 10:25:47 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] #120 sighting today FYI: The southbound move on 91 was to WAS, for the Harriman Awards Ceremony. Conrail (CSAO) was the "Gold" winner in their category and their representitives, including agreement people were my guests for the trip to and from WAS. Bennett Joe Witcofsky wrote: > > You guys are bad!!!!! > > FYI Yesterday, 5/1/02, Bennet Levins PRR120 and what appears to be an ex > Sunset Coffee Shop tavern were on the Rear of # 91 NYP to FLA. In honor of > this occasion, the normal 1 to 3 roadrailers were not added on at PHL. > Rumor had it that Amtrak's new Reichfuhrer David Gunn was a guest. > > JW > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Andrew S. > Miller > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 8:32 AM > To: Mark Murtha > Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] #120 sighting today > > Considering Amtrak's situation, they may be kidnapping it for ransom ;-) > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > ================================================== > Mark Murtha wrote: > > > While in Newark, NJ, today, I saw restored passenger car #120 at the end > of > > an Amtrak passenger train pulling out of Penn Station heading south toward > > Philadelphia. > > > > Mark Murtha > > Willow Grove, PA > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 15:50:42 EDT Subject: [PRR] RRMoPa - Newsletter Anyone else notice that, in addition to a very near plagiarism of the Baltimore museum, the architect of the proposed "roundhouse" doesn't seem to know much about the subject. The RRMoPa is another one of those outfits that seem driven to change their image frequently - (State employees with altogether to much time on their hands?) They've just introduced another new logo - Featuring what looks to be a PRR J-1, a loco the Museum does not own - An odd choice, I think as none were saved - the engineering guys must not have regarded it as a Pennsy loco. RR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann K-4 Question Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 00:54:37 -0400 Mainline modeler recently did a 2 issue spread on up-grading bachmann K-4s. check it out. i believe it was jan & feb of 2002. greg ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann K-4 Question > In a message dated 5/3/02 7:30:35 AM Central Daylight Time, > asmiller@mitre.org writes: > > << AFAIK Bachmann does not sell parts. >> > > Well, they will, but only in major assemblies. Thus, if you need a brush for > the K4 motor, they will sell you a new motor and flywheel assembly for > $24.50. Every other time I have looked for a part, the bill always seems to > wind up $24.00. Fortunately, when I lost the brush, I had a scrap box full > of the Spectrum K4's of their early production pieces of ---- that I could > cannibalize. > > I will have to get out some of those older boilers to compare again. If > Bachmann improved the new boiler it isn't obvious to me, but I will reserve > judgment until I do the actual comparison. Was it also supposed to be an > improvement over their first run of the DCC-ready versions? If so, that > isn't obvious to me either, but I will compare the two when I go to the club > (where mine currently reside) in the next two days. Should be an easy > comparison as they almost always have to be double-headed to pull a train of > 5 or more cars. > End of sarcasm for the day (I promise). In fairness, the new DCC-ready > mechanisms run smoother and don't have the characteristic lope of their > predecessors. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Justin Silverman" Subject: [PRR] N5 Lettering Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 07:57:16 -0400 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F40A.795812F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, Does anyone know of the height, width, and spacing of the letters on a N5= cabin car? This would be for the following diagram without the under an= d over lining, PENNSYLVANIA 487213 N5 Built 8-18 Thanks! Sincerely, Justin SilvermanGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http= ://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F40A.795812F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Everyone,
 
Does anyone know of the height, width, and sp= acing of the letters on a N5 cabin car?  This would be for the follo= wing diagram without the under and over lining,
 
<= DIV align=3Dleft>PENNSYLVANIA
 
 &= nbsp;     487213
=             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;    N5 Built 8-18
 
Th= anks!
 
Sincerely,
Justin Silverman=
 
 

<= hr>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F40A.795812F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Convention, Lists, Just got home from the annual convention. Not here to get to specific on the events, but just to say I was glad to finally put faces to the many email names I have known for the past 4+ years on the internet. To the listers unable to make it, the ceremony for Don Wood and the other photographers was great! Meeting and talking to Don Wood was even better. Winning a raffle of one of Don's favorite prints and having it signed was the icing on the cake, for me. Sounds like another good show is planned next year with the "Artists" being the the ones featured. .....Thanks to all who put the programs together.........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: [PRR] F-M erie bilts Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 16:37:52 -0400 List, Is there anyone who can steer me to pictures of the roof detail of the Erie built's showing the trainfone antenna and the steam generator details? These pictures may be very scarce, as the Pennsy changed these units to freight about 1952. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 17:32:42 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] F-M erie bilts In a message dated 5/5/02 3:50:29 PM Central Daylight Time, sjlash@tcis.net writes: << List, Is there anyone who can steer me to pictures of the roof detail of the Erie built's showing the trainfone antenna and the steam generator details? >> I asked this question about 8 months ago and one respondent on this or the Railway Prototype Modelers' list sent me a scan of a photo from either Rails Northeast or Pennsy Journal which shows a not very good angle view of the steam generator on a B-unit. When I ever get around to it, I may just install the generator which is used on the PAs and E-units, one of which is included in the P2K undec E7 kits and is also available in a metal casting from another vendor. If interested, Jim, I can email you the 375K file of the Erie-built photo. Let me know offlist. BTW, I don't think the dearth of photos is due to the conversion of all to freight service---I don't think they removed the external evidence of the generators. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:28:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention List, I agree with Gary about the Don Wood ceremony. It was great! I was lucky enough to be one of the raffle winners and get a Don Wood photo. I finally got to put some faces to all these "email names". Met a lot of people and made some new freinds. The programs were nice also. I'm glad these conventions are only once a year. I come home flat broke everytime. Can't wait till next year. Dave Hopson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Convention, Lists, Just got home from the annual convention. Not here to get to specific on the events, but just to say I was glad to finally put faces to the many email names I have known for the past 4+ years on the internet. To the listers unable to make it, the ceremony for Don Wood and the other photographers was great! Meeting and talking to Don Wood was even better. Winning a raffle of one of Don's favorite prints and having it signed was the icing on the cake, for me. Sounds like another good show is planned next year with the "Artists" being the the ones featured. .....Thanks to all who put the programs together.........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Cullen" Subject: [PRR] Chartiers Branch info desired Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 19:42:05 -0400 Hi guys, I'm looking at the Pennsy's Chartiers Branch line as inspiration for my next n scale layout. The Chartiers Branch line (Central Region, Panhandle Division) ran from southwest of Pittsburgh (Carnegie) for about 23 miles to Washington, PA. Some good sources of information that I have already found are: The Spring 1994 issue of THE KEYSTONE from the PRR T&HS. The Hobo's Guide to the Chartiers Branch on http://kc.pennsyrr.com and the Canonsburg article on www.chartiers.com I was looking for any additional sources of pictures and information of this PRR branch lines such as pictures of the industries along the way, especially the coal tipples and mines, and pictures of some of the 19 bridges on this line. Thanks, Jim Cullen -------------------------------------------- Jim's N-Scale Model Railroading http://members.tripod.com/jimcullen Jim's Railroad Pictures http://www.geocities.com/jimcullen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] F-M erie bilts Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 19:12:52 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F468.DAE680C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim: Check Pennsy Power II on page 270. There is a good shot of two Erie Built= s from above; one with DB and one without. =20 I hope that this gives you the info that you are looking for. Ted Andrews =20 Carmel, Indiana =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: S J Lash Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 3:51 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] F-M erie bilts =20 List, Is there anyone who can steer me to pictures of the roof detail of = the Erie built's showing the trainfone antenna and the steam generator detail= s? These pictures may be very scarce, as the Pennsy changed these units to freight about 1952. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F468.DAE680C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jim:
 
Check Pennsy Power II on page 270. T= here is a good shot of two Erie Builts from above; one with DB = and one without. 
 
I hope that this giv= es you the info that you are looking for.
 
&n= bsp;
Ted Andrews
Carmel, Indiana
 =
 
----- Original Message -----
= From: S J Lash
Sent: Sun= day, May 05, 2002 3:51 PM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] F-= M erie bilts
 
List, Is there anyone who can steer m= e to pictures of the roof detail of the
Erie built's showing the train= fone antenna and the steam generator details?
These pictures may be ve= ry scarce, as the Pennsy changed these units to
freight about 1952.&nb= sp; Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks Jim


----------= -------------------------------------------------------------
For assi= stance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F468.DAE680C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 21:17:51 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports Running Results From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" DISCLAIMER: I am a BLI dealer, but my opinion stated below is intended to be unbiased information. I think everyone who reads this who also saw the unit will agree, or add to, my comments and agree that they are unbiased as well. My first "hands on" look at a BLI product was on Friday morning at the convention, when a BLI sales rep delivered to me a PRE-PRODUCTION copy of the NYC J1e Hundson to be sjipped in 4-6 weeks. He noted the following about the model before handing it over: * That there was an identified (and being corrected) problem with the spring tension on the middle driver. We experienced this especially in reverse when the middle driver wheel kicked. * That the bell was not the final version. * That more of the parts underneath would be blackened on the production version. With that in mind, we placed the unit on a short test track connected to a Digitrax Chief II DCC system. The following were observed: * The headlight would not work. It would not operate with the DCC standard code for the headlight. Not being my model, I did not mess with the CV's to see if it had been programmed. The rep had said it was working the previous day, but that was under DC. * Sound was fantastic. Scores an A easily! * Construction was good. Hold up well to Life Like Heritage series, which I think was the intent. Scores a B on appearance. Perhaps better. Today we ran the unit on two layouts. Unfortunately, a score of F here... * On Bob Martin's layout (see forward of his comments in a second post to follow this one) the unit was unable to pull a 10 car passenger consist previously being pulled by two Spectrum K4's. The cars were NMRA weighted and we had to pare it down to three cars to get it to make it up a 2% grade. * On Jeff Warner's layout the unit did an excellent job on a decent consist going downhill, but had to be stripped to five cars going up a 2% grade. Again, unacceptable. The techies at Jeff's layout spent a few additional minutes analyzing the situation. They found that: * Slight lateral wobble -- caused by rough track or perhaps a turnout -- could cause the tender to lift its wheels momentarily, breaking electrical contact with the track in the process. This creates a "hiccup" of power flow. The suggestion was more spring tension on the tender axles or weight in the tender. * Though not really a locomotive specific problem, this loco did hiccup when travelling slowly over insulated frogs that were unpowered. * Weight, weight, weight! * There should be a working front coupler, not a dummy, for double-heading. I reported these opinions to the BLI rep along with the suggestion that the coal load be "dimpled" to suggest the unit was already in use and that some of the coal had been sucked through the auger. This is how LL did the 2-8-8-2 and it really looks good. The BLI rep conceded that he knew about the traction issue and almost withheld the loaner unit because of it. He went ahead with the loan so people could see the unit and hear the unit. He said they will resolve the traction issues before shipping. Just to force the issue, I volunteered to test any future test units that bear "corrections". He made two clarifications that people had asked about... * The headlight is an LED, not a bulb * The unlettered version is truly unlettered, not un-numbered. All I can think of or recall at the moment. This line looks truly promising, but does indeed need work. Fortunately, the first PRR units will be the third units out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale -- http//kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 21:19:17 -0400 Subject: [PRR] FW: Loco Demonstration Results Disappointing From: "Jerry @ dsop" The following are Bob Martin's comments on the BLI NYC J1e test run on his layout today. This was sent to me privately, but I share it here... ------------(snip)------------ Hello Folks, May 5, 2002 Here's my unscientific review of the Broadway Limited Hudson locomotive. As most of you know, my railroad was part of the PRRT&HS Annual Convention layout tour on Sunday, May 5, 2002. A couple weeks ago, new found model railroad friend and fellow SPF Jerry Britton asked if my railroad could be used to run the Broadway Limited locomotive for about half an hour. Of course I said yes. I was hoping the locomotive would be a pre-production model of a PRR M1 that the company will release in December since I had read about it and was anxious to see how it performed. But, having any loco demonstration on the layout before it hits the stores is an honor so here's the Hudson story. The Hudson looked good but what do I know about a NYC locomotive (ouch-but ya gotta remember, I'm a SPF). The locomotives come equipped with a DCC decoder and sound. The sound was the best that I've heard so far in an HO scale locomotive. The chuffs & huffs appeared to be properly synchronized. The whistle was fantastic, far superior than any I've heard, and the bell was very good also. Unfortunately, that's where the positive comments must end and the disappointment begins. We put the loco on the main at York on the CPRR. This area is located right next to the York Yard and is flat. The train I decided to use was a PRR passenger train consisting of Rivarossi cars weighted to one ounce per 10 scale feet. There were eight 85', two 72', and one 52' cars for a total weight of about 11.67 pounds. The Hudson was not able to move the train more than a few inches before it started to slip. We started taking cars off until the train moved (unfortunately, I didn't record how many). That, however, was the easy part. After leaving York, the track runs through a slight upgrade "S" curve through Jimville where the locomotive started to slip but it made it through that area. The real test came on a straight track 2% grade between Jimville and Robertsdale. We removed cars until we got to three 85' coaches at which point the loco, still slipping, managed to get the train up the grade with a little index finger weight on the sand dome. We continued to run the three car train for about 25 minutes but the performance on this grade did not improve. The Hudson ran well on all other parts of the CPRR. I believe everyone present was disappointed with its performance. I ran the same test with a Spectrum K4 later in the day. The K4 pulled three cars up the grade with less slipping than the Hudson but could not pull four cars up the grade. The K4 did manage to pull the train away from the Yard. I'd say that in pulling power, the two locomotives are almost equal with the K4 having a slight edge. Anyhow, I was disappointed with the Broadway Limited offering. I suspect the operating characteristics of the coming PRR M1 will be different but I will have to see it in action before I buy one. Unfortunately, the last three steam engines I purchased, 2 Bachman Spectrum K4's and a Athearn Genesis Mikado, all look great but all have about the same pulling power, i.e. not much. On the flat they're OK but they just don't have the weight to handle a fairly typical HO layout grade. All three of these locos are at their limit with about 7 or 8 40' freight cars (weighted 1 oz to 10 scale feet) on a 2 % grade. Looks like Bowser is still among the few with a heavy enough locomotive to pull a decent size train up a grade. The manufacturers of high end plastic steam engines need to figure out how to get additional weight into the boiler. That, as far as I'm concerned, is the only drawback of the otherwise new generation of great looking and running steam engines. Happy railroading, Bob Martin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale -- http//kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 21:23:51 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention Wrap From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" Another excellent convention... * No political issues (that I know of) * Decent financial report * Decent progress report on the archives at Lewistown * Excellent number of model submissions. (Bruce Smith won three, even though his models were CLEARLY marked not for judging...congrats to Bruce!) Doug and Claus had winners in N scale, which is to be expected! * Great to see some folks who rarely get to the convention, or made first time appearances...Bruce Smith, George Pierson, etc. * Great sessions, with kudos to George Pierson on two excellent talks! * Others have spoken on the Don Wood/Bob Maliknoski tribute. I can't add much. I was awestruck! Until next year... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale -- http//kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 21:51:48 -0400 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] an interesting photo Hi all, Here is a photo that I bought at the PRR T &HS convention. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/n&w.jpg I found one detail that was very interesting to me. Perhaps you can spot it and tell me if it was common for these locos, or a one of a kind. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 21:59:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] an interesting photo Bill, Nice find. Is this a Y4 5 or 6? Never seen Train Phone similar to PRR on another road before....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:01:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] an interesting photo In a message dated 5/5/02 8:56:47 PM Central Daylight Time, billlane@comcast.net writes: << Perhaps you can spot it and tell me if it was common for these locos, or a one of a kind. >> Looks like an inductive trainphone antenna on the tender. Haven't a clue as to why, or whether it was on another piece of equipment on an adjacent track? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] an interesting photo Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:00:38 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C1F480.4AA800C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill: Interesting photo indeed! Since the PRR was the largest stock holder of = the N&W, could this clout be expressed in configuring some of N&W's engin= es in areas where both railroads may pool their trains/operations? Perhap= s Columbus, Ohio was such a location. My 2 cents..... Ted Andrews =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Lane Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 8:57 PM To: PRR Talk; PRR Fax Subject: [PRR] an interesting photo =20 Hi all, Here is a photo that I bought at the PRR T &HS convention. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/n&w.jpg I found one detail that wa= s very interesting to me. Perhaps you can spot it and tell me if it was com= mon for these locos, or a one of a kind. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C1F480.4AA800C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill:
 
Interesting photo indeed!  Since the PRR&n= bsp;was the largest stock holder of the N&W, could this clout be= expressed in configuring some of N&W's engines in areas&nb= sp;where both railroads may pool their trains/operations? Perhaps Co= lumbus, Ohio was such a location.
 
My 2 = cents.....
 
Ted Andrews 
&nbs= p;
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill L= ane
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 20= 02 8:57 PM
To: PRR Talk; PRR= Fax
Subject: [PRR] an inter= esting photo
 
Hi all,

Here is a photo that I= bought at the PRR T &HS convention.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net= /billlane/n&w.jpg I found one detail that was
very interesting to = me. Perhaps you can spot it and tell me if it was common
for these loc= os, or a one of a kind.

Thanks
Bill


----------------= -------------------------------------------------------
For assistance= with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C1F480.4AA800C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 21:51:48 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] an interesting photo Hi all, Here is a photo that I bought at the PRR T &HS convention. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/n&w.jpg I found one detail that was very interesting to me. Perhaps you can spot it and tell me if it was common for these locos, or a one of a kind. Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 21:59:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] an interesting photo Bill, Nice find. Is this a Y4 5 or 6? Never seen Train Phone similar to PRR on another road before....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:16:48 -0700 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] an interesting photo Ted Andrews wrote: > Bill: > Interesting photo indeed! Since the PRR was the largest stock holder of > the N&W, could this clout be expressed in configuring some of N&W's > engines in areas where both railroads may pool their trains/operations? > Perhaps Columbus, Ohio was such a location. There were other installations of train phone, off the PRR. I disrecall where, nor have i got a handy reference, there were some. N&W, due to the partial PRR ownership is a likely candidate. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:19:21 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Don Wood's Web Site From: Jerry Britton During Don Wood's introduction, it was mentioned that Don is just now returning to railroad photography following a hiatus. The interesting news is that he is returning to it with a digital camera in hand! What is ironic is that magazines are saying they don't like digital pics. And here you have one of the greatest magazine photographers of all time (28 covers on Trains) converting to digital! Perhaps the magazine publishes aren't technically savvy enough yet to deal with them properly? Also announced was Don's new web site where you will be able to order prints directly. The URL is http://www.irememberpennsy.com (It was down a few minutes ago, but I did confirm it yesterday.) Though Don should be the one with this domain name (after one of his books), I am amazed that nobody else had previously thought of it. It's great! I imagine there will now be a run on other domain names... pennsyremembered.com pennsysteamyears.com pennsydieselyears.com etc. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 06:29:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Andrews Subject: Re: [PRR] Chartiers Branch info desired Sorry, I haven't any photos of the Chartiers branch, but I sure have memories. This branch could be an excellent choice. The Fort Pitt Bridge Works in Canonsburg built some very interesting steel bridge and building structures that made spectacular 65' gondola loads, Pennsylvania transformer shipped transformers of all types and sizes on flat cars, Continental Can shipped out canstock waste in gondolas that had special high wooden sides. All this in addition to the mine runs and the daily commuter run to Pittsburgh behind a 10 wheeler. Hmm, now you've got me thinking. Joe --- Jim Cullen wrote: > Hi guys, > > I'm looking at the Pennsy's Chartiers Branch line as > inspiration for my next > n scale layout. The Chartiers Branch line (Central > Region, Panhandle > Division) ran from southwest of Pittsburgh > (Carnegie) for about 23 miles to > Washington, PA. > > Some good sources of information that I have already > found are: > > The Spring 1994 issue of THE KEYSTONE from the PRR > T&HS. > The Hobo's Guide to the Chartiers Branch on > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > and the Canonsburg article on www.chartiers.com > > I was looking for any additional sources of pictures > and information of this > PRR branch lines such as pictures of the industries > along the way, > especially the coal tipples and mines, and pictures > of some of the 19 > bridges on this line. > > Thanks, > Jim Cullen > > -------------------------------------------- > Jim's N-Scale Model Railroading > http://members.tripod.com/jimcullen > > Jim's Railroad Pictures > http://www.geocities.com/jimcullen > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] Don Wood's Web Site Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 06:34:20 -0700 List, I just checked it out...so far none of the galleries are running. But it's probably quite new (there is a reference to the lifetime award), so I'm not suprised. As to the digital end of things, I don't think inability to handle digital images is the problem with most publishers...the problem is a lack of quality. Most digital images are good enough for web sites, but woefully lacking in detail suitable for reproduction. As we used to say, "there is no substitute for square inches!" Reminds me of something that happened to me some years ago...I was talking to Jim Boyd, then editor or RAILFAN regarding a possible photographic submission. He was trying to get me to shoot B&W in 35mm format, and I was reluctant to (with good reason). I mentioned to him the oft-repeated story of how David P. Morgan had got Don into quality photography by suggesting that he go out and get himself a 4x5 Speed Graphic. Don did so and the rest is, as they say, history. Mr Boyd's comment (and I quote) was "Don Wood is retired and David P. Morgan dosen't know shit from shinola about photography!" I thanked him for his opinion, hung up and NEVER made that submission to RAILFAN. Glad to see Don back out again! Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:57:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Don Wood's Web Site From: Jerry Britton On 5/6/02 9:34 AM, billd@gci-net.com (billd@gci-net.com) wrote: > As to the digital end of things, I don't think inability to > handle digital images is the problem with most > publishers...the problem is a lack of quality. Most digital > images are good enough for web sites, but woefully lacking > in detail suitable for reproduction. As we used to say, > "there is no substitute for square inches!" > In my opinion, most blurbs from magazines on the subject aren't clear enough about "why" many camera's aren't good enough. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a digital camera to shoot publication quality photos. But the specs should be stated for minimums...such as nothing less than 3 megapixel capability, further emphasizing number of pixels per shot. While a default image may come in at 100 dpi, if it is sufficient in size, that data can be increased in resolution to 300 dpi as the image is reduced, often resulting in publication-quality images of half-page size, etc. In color publishing, even far less than 300 dpi may be usable, depending on the type of press the job is being run on. The colors are each printed at different angles which reduces the need for the higher resolutions (but that's a long story!). FWIW, I was the directory of publications for a four-year college for six years and was responsible for photo selection and usage in projects such as the college's alumni magazine. This followed a stint selling desktop publishing systems in the latter half of the 1980's. Of course, we didn't have digital cameras then, but we had to know of the same factors as it dictated how prints were scanned for use in publishing. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 10:12:05 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports Running Results It may have garnered an "F" for this, but I personally am relieved to know that a NYC J1 could NOT outpull 2 K4s! ;-) -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" wrote: in part > ....... > > * On Bob Martin's layout (see forward of his comments in a second post to > follow this one) the unit was unable to pull a 10 car passenger consist > previously being pulled by two Spectrum K4's. The cars were NMRA weighted > and we had to pare it down to three cars to get it to make it up a 2% grade. > > . . . > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com > Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale -- http//kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 10:16:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports Running Results From: Jerry Britton On 5/6/02 10:12 AM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > It may have garnered an "F" for this, but I personally am relieved to know > that > a NYC J1 could NOT outpull 2 K4s! ;-) > When I returned the demo to the sales rep and reported my findings and opinions, I told him... ...as a dealer, I really want to see this thing work because I know a lot of PRR modelers will be VERY happy with BLI down the road. ...as a modeler, I have no problem with seeing this thing dead on the tracks! ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:09:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Vondruska Subject: Re: [PRR] N5 Lettering --- Justin Silverman wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > Does anyone know of the height, width, and spacing > of the letters on a N5 cabin car? This would be for > the following diagram without the under and over > lining, > > PENNSYLVANIA > > 487213 > N5 Built 8-18 > > Thanks! > > Sincerely, > Justin SilvermanGet more from the Web. FREE MSN > Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > Justin, I'll check my PRR Compendium when I get home. Hopefully someone else will reply before I can. I won't be able to respond correctly 'til tomorrow, Tues. 5/7/02. Tom V. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 12:31:25 -0400 From: Nick Kulp Subject: [PRR] additional Info on J1 test --=====================_3838348==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I was the operator for the BLI J1 at Jeff Warner's house. These are my observations I made while operating the model: 1. The loco looked fine for a J1. Some detail was a little "fuzzy" but I am not a rivet counter and I am a NYC fan. O own an early Tenshoda J1 and the detail on the BLI model is far superior to the Tenshoda model. 2. The SOUND was fantastic although somewhat more muted than I prefer. I especially liked the whistle and the ability to "play" it by holding the function button. Nice touch. The exhaust had a great sound, nice and throaty and well synchronized with the drivers. 3. The tender wheels needed more play. They derailed way too easily and it could be part of the electrical pickup problem, more then likely. 4. The traction was an issue but I will reserve judgement until after the production run. 5. Paint and lettering was sharp and crisp. Very readible, even with my trifocals. 6. The boiler had that well proportioned "beefy" NYC look present in their Hudsons and Mohawks. The blackened drivers gave it a perfect "lacy" look that really makes this a well proportioned undercarriage. If BLI addresses these issues and corrects them this model will be a great addition to any NYC fan's roster. This loco also gives us PRR fans some hope that FINALLY a manufacturer will produce an affordable, sound equipped, DCC (or not) ready M1a. This is a locomotive that only the brass collectors have had available in a detailed, ready-to-run model as long as I remember. Also the sound system will finally give those folks at Soundtrax a little competition. Great synchronized exhaust, a fantastic whistle, NO FIREMAN FRED or AUTOCHUFF. Maybe they will take the hint. Last but not least the whole enchilada costs less than the MSL of a P2K Heritage loco and it has a decoder plus sound. Put me down for one of the M1a locos when they come out. This will be worth it. Nick Kulp Cornwall Railroad President --=====================_3838348==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I was the operator for the BLI J1 at Jeff Warner's house. These are my observations I made while operating the model:

1. The loco looked fine for a J1. Some detail was a little "fuzzy" but I am not a rivet counter and I am a NYC fan. O own an early Tenshoda J1 and the detail on the BLI model is far superior to the Tenshoda model.

2. The SOUND was fantastic although somewhat more muted than I prefer. I especially liked the whistle and the ability to "play" it by holding the function button. Nice touch. The exhaust had a great sound, nice and throaty and well synchronized with the drivers.

3. The tender wheels needed more play. They derailed way too easily and it could be part of the electrical pickup problem, more then likely.

4. The traction was an issue but I will reserve judgement until after the production run.

5. Paint and lettering was sharp and crisp. Very readible, even with my trifocals.

6. The boiler had that well proportioned "beefy" NYC look present in their Hudsons and Mohawks. The blackened drivers gave it a perfect "lacy" look that really makes this a well proportioned undercarriage.

If BLI addresses these issues and corrects them this model will be a great addition to any NYC fan's roster. This loco also gives us PRR fans some hope that FINALLY a manufacturer will produce an affordable, sound equipped, DCC (or not) ready M1a. This is a locomotive that only the brass collectors have had available in a detailed, ready-to-run model as long as I remember. Also the sound system will finally give those folks at Soundtrax a little competition. Great synchronized exhaust, a fantastic whistle, NO FIREMAN FRED or AUTOCHUFF. Maybe they will take the hint. Last but not least the whole enchilada costs less than the MSL of a P2K Heritage loco and it has a decoder plus sound.

Put me down for one of the M1a locos when they come out. This will be worth it.

Nick Kulp
Cornwall Railroad President

--=====================_3838348==_.ALT-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 12:59:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] additional Info on J1 test From: Jerry Britton On 5/6/02 12:31 PM, Nick Kulp (caseyj@mail.igateway.com) wrote: > 3. The tender wheels needed more play. They derailed way too easily and it > could be part of the electrical pickup problem, more then likely. > Nick, just to clarify, as I was in the next room most of the time... Did the unit actually derail, as in the wheel coming off the track laterally? My understanding was that as the truck rolled over bumpy spots, frogs, grade crossings, that the truck laterally "wobbled", causing one side to go airborne and break contact for a split second, but coming back down onto the rail. Which is it? The latter might be corrected with spring tension on the pickups or weight in the tender. Just a side note, the grade crossings actually rose above the rails. You could easily feel the rise with your fingers. The diesels ran through fine, however, so I am not saying this is the cause. Nor is it attributable to locomotive length, as double-headed HH-1's ran fine. (And boy did they look nice!) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Convention Wrap Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 13:01:05 -0400 Listers, Jerry pretty much summed up the meeting. However as a vendor he didn't get a chance to get out to the layout tours on Fri. By the way thanks Jerry for setting them up. Only got to one layout since I went to the 7pm talk. The one nearest to the hotel (Jeff Warner"?). However it had to be the most beautiful non-scenicked (sp?) I have ever seen. The owner must have gotten into model railroading late because he did not have the required junk that I've seen under most layouts. The valence and fascia gave the layout that finished look. Also overheard from various sources about upcoming models. These are rumors but some I heard from more than one person. A N-8 from Bowser A R-50 from Walthers along with complete passenger trains for all the passenger cars they have released so far. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Jerry @ pennsyrr.com [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 9:24 PM To: PRR-talk Subject: [PRR] Convention Wrap Another excellent convention... * No political issues (that I know of) * Decent financial report * Decent progress report on the archives at Lewistown * Excellent number of model submissions. (Bruce Smith won three, even though his models were CLEARLY marked not for judging...congrats to Bruce!) Doug and Claus had winners in N scale, which is to be expected! * Great to see some folks who rarely get to the convention, or made first time appearances...Bruce Smith, George Pierson, etc. * Great sessions, with kudos to George Pierson on two excellent talks! * Others have spoken on the Don Wood/Bob Maliknoski tribute. I can't add much. I was awestruck! Until next year... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale -- http//kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 12:12:48 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Howdy, Well, it was my second convention and definitely not my last! Some additions to Jerry's list of great stuff! 1) New products (not a complete list at all!) -Middle Division HO FOM passenger car decals - due in 4-6 weeks -Rail Classics F40 - another super car...and the pace of production is picking up ! -Railworks FD2/FW1 - saw an undec...very nice with decals...we need these for all those old ALCO models FD2/FW1 models out there -NKP has 3 new P70 kits coming (two modernized coaches and a modernized combine - I forget classes, not being a passenger car freak, but I have the handout and saw the sides...VERY nice!) -BLI NYC J1e - I agree with all comments to date. I would place molding quality below P2K but better than the Bachman K4. You get what you pay for and for the price, this is a nice loco. It is a $150-$200 loco (with an additional $100-$150 of electronics), not a $400 loco (ie P2K, or the new C&O H-8). I feel comfortable with my order of M1s. 2) Model Room - Keith Thompson did a great job in a short time getting the details worked out. The response was great! Over 100 models (and that counts MUs as only one!) John Teichmoeller had a fantastic display of the HO PRR gons available from different sources. Gary Mittner brought all FOUR large scale cabin cars...one word...AWESOME! I had a great time hanging in the model room and chatting with folks...I know we can do even better next year! 3) Program - hats off to Al Buchan...it was fantastic and Al kept things rolling right along (well, maybe Saturday night went a little long ). Some notables amongst the great program were Rick Tipton's tour Louisville, George Pierson's two talks on narrow gauge and modeling the PRR in the 20's, Ian Fisher's fantastic run through of almost every class (and subclass) of PRR gons, Gary Rauch's wonderful presentation on single sheathed house cars and the team of Mike Bezilla and Bob Watson talking about the P5s. 4) Layout Tours - Hats off to Jerry for helping set these up! And thanks to all of the owners for letting us troup through their train rooms. The best was saved for last and PRR live steam on a gorgeous Sunday afternoon was a mind blowing experience...the smell of coal smoke, the sound of an M1 working uphill....Next year there may be a 1.5" scale T1 in the model room! (sign me up to help carry it in!) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 13:28:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Wrap From: Jerry Britton On 5/6/02 1:01 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > Jerry pretty much summed up the meeting. However as a vendor he didn't get a > chance to get out to the layout tours on Fri. By the way thanks Jerry for > setting them up. Only got to one layout since I went to the 7pm talk. The > one nearest to the hotel (Jeff Warner"?). However it had to be the most > beautiful non-scenicked (sp?) I have ever seen. The owner must have gotten > into model railroading late because he did not have the required junk that > I've seen under most layouts. The valence and fascia gave the layout that > finished look. This was Jim Clay's layout, actually. It's about a 250' run on the Cumberland Valley branch. Main line is all in...on immaculate benchwork in an otherwise spotless basement. He really did it up nice. > > Also overheard from various sources about upcoming models. These are rumors > but some I heard from more than one person. > > A N-8 from Bowser Lee English publicly acknowledged this many months ago. I was in touch with him about a month ago and he indicated the boiler was pretty much done. Looking for an end-of-year release. He is not yet releasing price or part numbers, which is why you don't see dealers taking reservations yet. > A R-50 from Walthers along with complete passenger trains for all the > passenger cars they have released so far. > This was less publicly announced a while back and should make a lot of HO modelers happy. I don't know the ETA, but I think you are into next year. Speaking of which, there will be an N scale R50b from another vendor next year. Given that, I suppose I can wait a little longer for a BM70m. ;-) As an FYI, supposedly the Crown trucks are complete at Bowser and the N scale H21a's will roll in a week or so. Too bad they missed the convention! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Convention Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 18:02:43 +0000 What happens to the presentations made at the convention? Do they wind up being printed in the Keystone as articles in coming years or is it an attend or don't get the information type situation? Any chance of them publishing the info if it doesn't go to the Keystone for those of us that attending is impractical? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:17:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention From: Jerry Britton On 5/6/02 2:02 PM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > What happens to the presentations made at the > convention? Do they wind up being printed in the > Keystone as articles in coming years or is it an attend > or don't get the information type situation? Any chance > of them publishing the info if it doesn't go to the > Keystone for those of us that attending is impractical? > Most of the presentations are a "once and done" deal. It is much easier for someone to stand for 45 minutes and tell what they know than it is to have them put it down on paper in a publishable form. However, sometimes the handouts end up on the Internet. Al Buchan's "Modeling 1960's Non-Revenue Equipment" handout from 2000 is available from Keystone Crossings, as is Paul Backenstose's "Capturing the Flavor of the PRR on Your Model Railroad" (structures) from 2001. From 2002, George Pierson has promised to provide his handout from "Modeling the PRR in the 1920's". ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:29:38 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Wrap Jerry Britton wrote: (in part) > On 5/6/02 1:01 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > . . . > > > > A N-8 from Bowser > > Lee English publicly acknowledged this many months ago. I was in touch with > him about a month ago and he indicated the boiler was pretty much done. > Looking for an end-of-year release. What kind of "Boiler" did an N-8 have? Did they use it to make tea? ;-) -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:33:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Wrap From: Jerry Britton On 5/6/02 2:29 PM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > Jerry Britton wrote: (in part) > >> On 5/6/02 1:01 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: >> . . . >>> >>> A N-8 from Bowser >> >> Lee English publicly acknowledged this many months ago. I was in touch with >> him about a month ago and he indicated the boiler was pretty much done. >> Looking for an end-of-year release. > > What kind of "Boiler" did an N-8 have? Did they use it to make tea? > ;-) > Ouch! I was thinking of two product announcements at once! Sorry, Chris...yes, the N8 is a go. I was thinking of the B6 that's coming. Uggghh! I hate when I do dat!!!! Maybe on April 1st there would be an N8 with a boiler! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:01:21 +0000 It seems to me that if someone was going to tell the died in the wool attendees what they know verbally that it would be pretty accurate. Also it wouldn't be difficult to record it and have a steno service type the remarks or just for the society to duplicate and sell tapes or CD's with a set of prints to go with the lecture showing the pictures used to illustrate the lecture. I think I would probably buy several of them or they could just do the whole convention as a set. > On 5/6/02 2:02 PM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > > > What happens to the presentations made at the > > convention? Do they wind up being printed in the > > Keystone as articles in coming years or is it an attend > > or don't get the information type situation? Any chance > > of them publishing the info if it doesn't go to the > > Keystone for those of us that attending is impractical? > > > Most of the presentations are a "once and done" deal. It is much easier for > someone to stand for 45 minutes and tell what they know than it is to have > them put it down on paper in a publishable form. > > However, sometimes the handouts end up on the Internet. Al Buchan's > "Modeling 1960's Non-Revenue Equipment" handout from 2000 is available from > Keystone Crossings, as is Paul Backenstose's "Capturing the Flavor of the > PRR on Your Model Railroad" (structures) from 2001. From 2002, George > Pierson has promised to provide his handout from "Modeling the PRR in the > 1920's". > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 15:08:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention From: Jerry Britton On 5/6/02 3:01 PM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > It seems to me that if someone was going to tell the > died in the wool attendees what they know verbally that > it would be pretty accurate. Also it wouldn't be > difficult to record it and have a steno service type the > remarks or just for the society to duplicate and sell > tapes or CD's with a set of prints to go with the > lecture showing the pictures used to illustrate the > lecture. I think I would probably buy several of them > or they could just do the whole convention as a set. I suppose that could be done, but I think it would negatively impact attendence at conventions which, in the end, will reduce membership in the Society itself. The Society would just become a bookstore. Getting together and meeting new people and sharing experiences at the convention is well worth the trip...perhaps more so than the seminars themselves. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 15:15:10 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Need Northern Division Employee Timetable from April 1954 From: Jerry Britton Every few months I speak up, looking for items for my 1954 CD-ROM project. Two of the 19 employee timetables have been eluding me, but I picked up one at the convention. Now I am down to needing only one!!! I did make a forward step towards the last one. Not all divisions published twice a year. And, although I am looking for those in effect as of Sept. 26, 1954, not all divisions published on that date nor were they timetable #7. What I did find was that the Northern Division published ETT #6 on April 26, 1954 and published ETT #7 on April 26, 1955. That means the one I actually need is the #6 from April. If anyone has a Northern Division ETT #6 from April 1954, I would appreciate being able to borrow it for about two weeks for scanning purposes. In return you will get a free copy of the CD-ROM which will have a full set of ETT's or all 19 divisions as well as many other documents from the era. Please respond off-list. Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Convention Wrap Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:55:56 -0400 Good because I almost bought a Quality Craft N-8 to guarantee that one would be produced in plastic. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 2:34 PM To: Andrew S. Miller Cc: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Wrap On 5/6/02 2:29 PM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > Jerry Britton wrote: (in part) > >> On 5/6/02 1:01 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: >> . . . >>> >>> A N-8 from Bowser >> >> Lee English publicly acknowledged this many months ago. I was in touch with >> him about a month ago and he indicated the boiler was pretty much done. >> Looking for an end-of-year release. > > What kind of "Boiler" did an N-8 have? Did they use it to make tea? > ;-) > Ouch! I was thinking of two product announcements at once! Sorry, Chris...yes, the N8 is a go. I was thinking of the B6 that's coming. Uggghh! I hate when I do dat!!!! Maybe on April 1st there would be an N8 with a boiler! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 16:10:25 -0400 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] RE: PRRT&HS Convention Bruce said "well, maybe Saturday night went a little long " Yes it did - if you stayed to the bitter end, watching the three Steinheimer add-on shows, as many did it was over about 12:30 a.m. I think we set a new banquet record ;^). We had too many Wood photos to raffle off ;^) - that's what made it too long. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Franke" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Wrap Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:48:42 -0400 Any other N scale news? What did Hell Gate Models bring. Has anyone seen The New Microscale PRR decals? Mark Franke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Andrew S. Miller" Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Wrap > On 5/6/02 2:29 PM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > > > Jerry Britton wrote: (in part) > > > >> On 5/6/02 1:01 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > >> . . . > >>> > >>> A N-8 from Bowser > >> > >> Lee English publicly acknowledged this many months ago. I was in touch with > >> him about a month ago and he indicated the boiler was pretty much done. > >> Looking for an end-of-year release. > > > > What kind of "Boiler" did an N-8 have? Did they use it to make tea? > > ;-) > > > Ouch! I was thinking of two product announcements at once! > > Sorry, Chris...yes, the N8 is a go. I was thinking of the B6 that's coming. > > Uggghh! I hate when I do dat!!!! > > Maybe on April 1st there would be an N8 with a boiler! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 16:49:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Wrap From: Jerry Britton On 5/6/02 3:48 PM, Mark Franke at (mfranke@cox.rr.com) wrote: > Any other N scale news? What did Hell Gate Models bring. Has anyone seen The > New Microscale PRR decals? Hell Gate Models had a test shot of their new BM70k. Doug had also painted and finished an earlier test shot of same. Looked fantastic! should be out real sone. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 16:47:29 -0400 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] RE: Convention It was asked "What happens to the presentations made at the convention?" As Jerry replied "Most of the presentations are a 'once and done' deal." What he said is basically true. However, let me elaborate on this some more by program. Rockville Bridge - 100 years - Presenter Dan Cupper has a new book out on this subject. Many of the slides he used during the program are in the book. Metroliners - Several of us who were associated with that project on the PRR have been threatening to write an article on this subject for "The Keystone." I talked with Bob Watson about this after the presentation and we may now get off dead center seeing we have the program notes/outlines and photos. There have been some articles already in the magazine about same. The PRR in Louisville - This was covered by Rick in a recent issue of "The Keystone." However, he told me he wants to do a follow-up article and I know Bob Watson has photos of the then new EH in Jeffersonville, as he was EH Foreman there when they moved from 14th Street. Composite Single-Sheathed Box (House) Cars - There has been some information on these type cars in earlier editions of "The Keystone." However, I'll ask Gary if he'll do a follow-up with an article. Lanterns of the PRR - This has already been covered in previous issues. My Peter Lerro Painting - Not appropriate for an article - this was a personal presentation by Ken about a commissioned painting. PA. Narrow Gauge Railroads That Connected with the PRR and Modeling the PRR in the 1920s - George's notes, maps and diagrams will be posted on the PRRT&HS website. PRR Photos of Phil Hastings - Doug has a book ready to be published on this subject. Pennsy Juice - The Class P5 - See current Society book offering, available on the website. This was a presentation by one of the authors and Bob Watson, former EH Ass't Foreman at Enola, who also contributed a lot of photos for the book. PRR Gondolas - Ian has covered some of the earlier gons in an early issue, and some others have been subsequently covered also. Ian may well do another article for "The Keystone," I'll ask him. As an example of some follow-up that does happed, Rick Tipton gave a talk on lettering PRR covered hoppers at the 2000 annual meeting and it is now coming out in the summer 2002 edition of "The Keystone." Chuck showed me a draft of the issue during the BoD meeting and it looks like a winner. Sometimes we just have to be patient. This is the kind of modeling article I think we need more of - information about the real thing to assist modelers do a better job of capturing the PRR. Also in the summer edition finally is a review of Richard Wallis' excellent book - "The PRR at Bay." Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 16:57:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] additional Info on J1 test From: Eugene Nowlan Nick, Was this an all wheel pickup or one side of the engine and the other side from the tender? Gene ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 17:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRRT&HS Convention Al, I think the story behind all the Don Wood prints was this. He was asked to choose 20 of his favorites to bring for raffle. He said it was impossible to choose so he brought, what, 60+ along. The more the merrier!!! :-) Pleasure meeting you Al........Gary Original message: Bruce said "well, maybe Saturday night went a little long " Yes it did - if you stayed to the bitter end, watching the three Steinheimer add-on shows, as many did it was over about 12:30 a.m. I think we set a new banquet record ;^). We had too many Wood photos to raffle off ;^) - that's what made it too long. Al Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: Re: [PRR] additional Info on J1 test Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:20:1 -0400 I guess one way to look at the results from the J1 test is that they are working out the kinks in their operation with a NYC engine and not a Pennsy engine! Even if the final result is only a little better than the Bachmann Spectrum offerings, that still is pretty darn good. I am very satisfied with all of the Spectrum steam that I own, except for the old tooling K4. (I have a new one on order) One other thing to consider is that, if I am not mistaken, Oriental imported a M-1a/b in the past. This, because of the association with Oriental, may give Broadway Limited a leg up in making the M-1a/b. Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Wrap Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:16:37 -0400 Chris and list- Bowser is working on the N-8 to my knowledge. I also believe it will have to-be applied grab irons. Last year, the PRRTHS Phila chpt modelers meeting took a survey on the request for a N-8. It was just about unanimous that a N-8 could work in favor for Bowser to produce. I do not know of the exact details. Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: "PRR-talk" Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 1:01 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Convention Wrap > Listers, > > Jerry pretty much summed up the meeting. However as a vendor he didn't get a > chance to get out to the layout tours on Fri. By the way thanks Jerry for > setting them up. Only got to one layout since I went to the 7pm talk. The > one nearest to the hotel (Jeff Warner"?). However it had to be the most > beautiful non-scenicked (sp?) I have ever seen. The owner must have gotten > into model railroading late because he did not have the required junk that > I've seen under most layouts. The valence and fascia gave the layout that > finished look. > > Also overheard from various sources about upcoming models. These are rumors > but some I heard from more than one person. > > A N-8 from Bowser > A R-50 from Walthers along with complete passenger trains for all the > passenger cars they have released so far. > > > Chris Chany > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry @ pennsyrr.com [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 9:24 PM > To: PRR-talk > Subject: [PRR] Convention Wrap > > > Another excellent convention... > > * No political issues (that I know of) > > * Decent financial report > > * Decent progress report on the archives at Lewistown > > * Excellent number of model submissions. (Bruce Smith won three, even though > his models were CLEARLY marked not for judging...congrats to Bruce!) Doug > and Claus had winners in N scale, which is to be expected! > > * Great to see some folks who rarely get to the convention, or made first > time appearances...Bruce Smith, George Pierson, etc. > > * Great sessions, with kudos to George Pierson on two excellent talks! > > * Others have spoken on the Don Wood/Bob Maliknoski tribute. I can't add > much. I was awestruck! > > Until next year... > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com > Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale -- http//kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] an interesting photo Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:41:03 -0500 I've seen pictures of Kansas City Southern E-Units with trainphones similar to the PRR. One of them is pictured in one of Don Ball's all-colored picture books entitled "America's Colorful Railroads". -----Original Message----- From: davep [mailto:davep@quik.com] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 11:17 AM To: Ted Andrews Cc: Bill Lane; PRR Talk; PRR Fax Subject: Re: [PRR] an interesting photo Ted Andrews wrote: > Bill: > Interesting photo indeed! Since the PRR was the largest stock holder of > the N&W, could this clout be expressed in configuring some of N&W's > engines in areas where both railroads may pool their trains/operations? > Perhaps Columbus, Ohio was such a location. There were other installations of train phone, off the PRR. I disrecall where, nor have i got a handy reference, there were some. N&W, due to the partial PRR ownership is a likely candidate. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRRT&HS Convention Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 23:13:41 -0400 Long but fun, even if I didn't win a Wood photo, I almost left before those last slide shows, actually multi-media experience, by Ted Benson. Glad I didn't. It was good to meet all of those people I have been talking with for years on line. I also think I found a G26 or G26a on the way home to Buffalo. More on that when I get the slides back. Also stopped in Lewistown on the way home, and hung out for few hours watching trains. Took photo's of the two ex PRR cars at the engine terminal, and a beautiful Juniata Valley SW8. Basically I railfanned all the way home. Brian Carlson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: "Al Buchan" Cc: "PRR-TALK" Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRRT&HS Convention > Al, > > I think the story behind all the Don Wood prints was this. He was > asked to choose 20 of his favorites to bring for raffle. He said it was > impossible to choose so he brought, what, 60+ along. The more the > merrier!!! :-) > Pleasure meeting you Al........Gary > > Original message: > > Bruce said "well, maybe Saturday night went a little long " > Yes it did - if you stayed to the bitter end, watching the three > Steinheimer add-on shows, as many did it was over about 12:30 a.m. I > think we set a new banquet record ;^). We had too many Wood photos to > raffle off ;^) - that's what made it too long. > Al > > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 00:29:15 -0400 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] an Encounter with Greatness Hi All, I would like to share with you what was BY FAR the highlight of this PRR T & HS convention. A picture can speak volumes. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/DonWood.jpg I am accepting my ORIGINAL Don Wood photo from the master himself on Friday 5-3-02. While many took home Don's images as a door prize, I think mine is different. Don said this particular print; "Woods Curve" is one of his favorites. It is on the center spread of pages 141-142 of "I Remember Pennsy." Furthermore, it is one of the last images that Don printed on photographic paper with his enlarger from the original negative. He has completely involved with the creative process of this print. He signed the back with a personal inscription. I am EXTREMELY HONORED to able to call this print my own. After this photo was taken, Don sat with us in the lobby for 45 minutes as if we were old friends. How can you possibly top this as a convention memory? Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 06:20:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] an Encounter with Greatness From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/02 12:29 AM, Bill Lane at (billlane@comcast.net) wrote: > I would like to share with you what was BY FAR the highlight of this PRR T & > HS convention. A picture can speak volumes. > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/DonWood.jpg I am accepting my > ORIGINAL Don Wood photo from the master himself on Friday 5-3-02. While many > took home Don's images as a door prize, I think mine is different. Don said > this particular print; "Woods Curve" is one of his favorites. It is on the > center spread of pages 141-142 of "I Remember Pennsy." Furthermore, it is > one of the last images that Don printed on photographic paper with his > enlarger from the original negative. He has completely involved with the > creative process of this print. He signed the back with a personal > inscription. I am EXTREMELY HONORED to able to call this print my own. > > After this photo was taken, Don sat with us in the lobby for 45 minutes as > if we were old friends. How can you possibly top this as a convention > memory? > That is truly one of his best prints and I, too, found Don to be extremely sociable as he spent some time with our crew in the lobby before dinner. Excellent time! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:21:51 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: additional Info on J1 test Gene, I didn't get a chance to look that closely at the model while I was running it. Jerry put it on the track and took it off. The only time I handled the loco was when I rerailed it. It acted like it had split pickup (engine one side, tender the other) because it didn't take much to make it stall on non-powered frogs, very similar to the P2K Heritage 0-8-0 with no tender pickup. I also appeared that not all loco wheels were picking up but tht could have been caused by the light boiler weight. I hope my comments get to BLI. They really need to look at the issues I raised. Regards, Nick From: "Eugene Nowlan" Nick, Was this an all wheel pickup or one side of the engine and the other side from the tender? Gene http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:30:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] Cabin car lettering/decaling+phases skipped+renumbering --part1_1a4.1e1ca1a.2a0914ea_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/6/02 2:40:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] N5 Lettering > From: "Tom Vondruska" > Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:09:13 -0700 (PDT) > > > --- Justin Silverman wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Does anyone know of the height, width, and spacing > > of the letters on a N5 cabin car? This would be for > > the following diagram without the under and over > > lining, > > > > PENNSYLVANIA > > > > 487213 > > N5 Built 8-18 > > > > Thanks! > > > > Sincerely, > > Justin SilvermanGet more from the Web. FREE MSN > > Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > > Justin, > > I'll check my PRR Compendium when I get home. > Hopefully someone else will reply before I can. I > won't be able to respond correctly 'til tomorrow, > Tues. 5/7/02. > > Tom V. > Justin, Funny, we've just been doing a quick review of photos on this subject. There were five paint schemes common on the N5. Using the McGuire classification of lettering phases (see the coming Summer Keystone): 1. These cars were built in NK3. This is even earlier than the scheme you indicated you're uninterested in. 2. From about 1926 to 1954, N5's carried NK4 lettering with the two lines (as you've described). A brief experiment with including the circle monogram (CK) was quickly cancelled, and standard placement of the reporting marks package (lettering, bracketed by the two lines) is low on the side for N5. 3. From mid-1954, many cabins in SK1b can be seen in photos. This is the first scheme shown in the Compendium, and decals in this style are available from both Middle Division (my preference) and Champ. The numbers are 9" roman under a PENNSYLVANIA that is 13" high. The smaller shadow keystone is normal, but try to work from photos. 4. In 1959-1960, it's observable that some cabins are lettered in SK2b. This scheme is not in the Compendium, but look for the "plain gothic" numbers 7 inches high. I'm not sure if any available sets will let you avoid decalbashing here -- I used Herald King sets for freight cars in the past, but they are out of production. 5. In 1961-1968, lettering echoes the Plain Keystone (PK) of freight car stencils in this period. Most cabins had just a keystone (usually in one of the two smaller sizes available) over 11" gothic numbers. A very few of these cars had the 14" PRR (normal for revenue cars) centered vertically between, but do this only if you have a picture. Of course, from 1965, the body color changed to "Focal Orange", but this bright orange (much brighter than any of the Bowser kits I've seen) is anathema to many PRR fans. Decals here are a problem, and I've always had to piece them. As a footnote, it's been interesting to learn that, for whatever reasons, N5 cabin cars skipped mass application of CK, SK1a, and SK2a schemes. One final note -- I believe 487213 may have been the as-built number of the car. After 1921's consolidation renumbering, I believe Lines East cars like the N5 would have been 477xxx -- not necessarily 477213 (?). Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1a4.1e1ca1a.2a0914ea_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/6/02 2:40:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] N5 Lettering
From: "Tom Vondruska" <prrlineswest@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:09:13 -0700 (PDT)


--- Justin Silverman <oghistorian@msn.com> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Does anyone know of the height, width, and spacing
> of the letters on a N5 cabin car?  This would be for
> the following diagram without the under and over
> lining,
>
> PENNSYLVANIA
>
>        487213
>                              N5 Built 8-18
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sincerely,
> Justin SilvermanGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN
> Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
>
Justin,

   I'll check my PRR Compendium when I get home.
Hopefully someone else will reply before I can. I
won't be able to respond correctly 'til tomorrow,
Tues. 5/7/02.

Tom V.


Justin,

Funny, we've just been doing a quick review of photos on this subject.  There were five paint schemes common on the N5.  Using the McGuire classification of lettering phases (see the coming Summer Keystone):

1. These cars were built in NK3.  This is even earlier than the scheme you indicated you're uninterested in.
2. From about 1926 to 1954, N5's carried NK4 lettering with the two lines (as you've described).  A brief experiment with including the circle monogram (CK) was quickly cancelled, and standard placement of the reporting marks package (lettering, bracketed by the two lines) is low on the side for N5.
3. From mid-1954, many cabins in SK1b can be seen in photos.  This is the first scheme shown in the Compendium, and decals in this style are available from both Middle Division (my preference) and Champ.  The numbers are 9" roman under a PENNSYLVANIA that is 13" high.  The smaller shadow keystone is normal, but try to work from photos.
4. In 1959-1960, it's observable that some cabins are lettered in SK2b.  This scheme is not in the Compendium, but look for the "plain gothic" numbers 7 inches high.  I'm not sure if any available sets will let you avoid decalbashing here -- I used Herald King sets for freight cars in the past, but they are out of production.
5.  In 1961-1968, lettering echoes the Plain Keystone (PK) of freight car stencils in this period.  Most cabins had just a keystone (usually in one of the two smaller sizes available) over 11" gothic numbers.  A very few of these cars had the 14" PRR (normal for revenue cars) centered vertically between, but do this only if you have a picture.  Of course, from 1965, the body color changed to "Focal Orange", but this bright orange (much brighter than any of the Bowser kits I've seen) is anathema to many PRR fans.  Decals here are a problem, and I've always had to piece them.

As a footnote, it's been interesting to learn that, for whatever reasons, N5 cabin cars skipped mass application of CK, SK1a, and SK2a schemes.

One final note -- I believe 487213 may have been the as-built number of the car.  After 1921's consolidation renumbering, I believe Lines East cars like the N5 would have been 477xxx -- not necessarily 477213 (?).

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1a4.1e1ca1a.2a0914ea_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:30:50 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Cabin car lettering/decaling+phases skipped+renumbering In a message dated 5/6/02 2:40:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] N5 Lettering > From: "Tom Vondruska" > Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:09:13 -0700 (PDT) > > > --- Justin Silverman wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Does anyone know of the height, width, and spacing > > of the letters on a N5 cabin car? This would be for > > the following diagram without the under and over > > lining, > > > > PENNSYLVANIA > > > > 487213 > > N5 Built 8-18 > > > > Thanks! > > > > Sincerely, > > Justin SilvermanGet more from the Web. FREE MSN > > Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > > Justin, > > I'll check my PRR Compendium when I get home. > Hopefully someone else will reply before I can. I > won't be able to respond correctly 'til tomorrow, > Tues. 5/7/02. > > Tom V. > Justin, Funny, we've just been doing a quick review of photos on this subject. There were five paint schemes common on the N5. Using the McGuire classification of lettering phases (see the coming Summer Keystone): 1. These cars were built in NK3. This is even earlier than the scheme you indicated you're uninterested in. 2. From about 1926 to 1954, N5's carried NK4 lettering with the two lines (as you've described). A brief experiment with including the circle monogram (CK) was quickly cancelled, and standard placement of the reporting marks package (lettering, bracketed by the two lines) is low on the side for N5. 3. From mid-1954, many cabins in SK1b can be seen in photos. This is the first scheme shown in the Compendium, and decals in this style are available from both Middle Division (my preference) and Champ. The numbers are 9" roman under a PENNSYLVANIA that is 13" high. The smaller shadow keystone is normal, but try to work from photos. 4. In 1959-1960, it's observable that some cabins are lettered in SK2b. This scheme is not in the Compendium, but look for the "plain gothic" numbers 7 inches high. I'm not sure if any available sets will let you avoid decalbashing here -- I used Herald King sets for freight cars in the past, but they are out of production. 5. In 1961-1968, lettering echoes the Plain Keystone (PK) of freight car stencils in this period. Most cabins had just a keystone (usually in one of the two smaller sizes available) over 11" gothic numbers. A very few of these cars had the 14" PRR (normal for revenue cars) centered vertically between, but do this only if you have a picture. Of course, from 1965, the body color changed to "Focal Orange", but this bright orange (much brighter than any of the Bowser kits I've seen) is anathema to many PRR fans. Decals here are a problem, and I've always had to piece them. As a footnote, it's been interesting to learn that, for whatever reasons, N5 cabin cars skipped mass application of CK, SK1a, and SK2a schemes. One final note -- I believe 487213 may have been the as-built number of the car. After 1921's consolidation renumbering, I believe Lines East cars like the N5 would have been 477xxx -- not necessarily 477213 (?). Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: PRRT&HS Convention Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 08:26:50 -0400 Well as some one who one 2 pictures toward the end of the night I'm glad he couldn't decide! Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 5:09 PM To: abbuchan1@comcast.net Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRRT&HS Convention Al, I think the story behind all the Don Wood prints was this. He was asked to choose 20 of his favorites to bring for raffle. He said it was impossible to choose so he brought, what, 60+ along. The more the merrier!!! :-) Pleasure meeting you Al........Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:08:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Cabin car Rick, That #3 lettering scheme you mentioned has a little interesting side note. You mention that the normal was to have the smaller 19"? Shadow Keystone. It originally called for the large 28"? Shadow Keystone. That large Keystone was very short lived (1 month?) on few Cabins. The Belt Line on the N5 interferred with the placement of the stenciling so the smaller Keystone was used when the time came for repaint/relettering. I have a photo of an N5b with this large Keystone and you can see that the bottom of the Keystone lays over the rivits. That was why the switch to the smaller Keystone.........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Don Wood's digital photos Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:39:23 -0400 Dear list: It isn't that magazines don't like digital photos, they don't like digital compression images like JPG. TIF files are excellent and sought after by publishers because they hold more detail than a large format Kodachrome. JPGs take on a "square shoulder" image of the pixels when enlarged even slightly. This gives the photo "steps" of pixels running through the image. The digital cameras used by professional photographers usually are direct linked to a computer hard drive because a floppy disk cannot hold all the info in a single TIF file. Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 9:19 AM Subject: [PRR] Don Wood's Web Site > During Don Wood's introduction, it was mentioned that Don is just now > returning to railroad photography following a hiatus. > > The interesting news is that he is returning to it with a digital camera in > hand! What is ironic is that magazines are saying they don't like digital > pics. And here you have one of the greatest magazine photographers of all > time (28 covers on Trains) converting to digital! Perhaps the magazine > publishes aren't technically savvy enough yet to deal with them properly? > > Also announced was Don's new web site where you will be able to order prints > directly. The URL is > > http://www.irememberpennsy.com > > (It was down a few minutes ago, but I did confirm it yesterday.) > > Though Don should be the one with this domain name (after one of his books), > I am amazed that nobody else had previously thought of it. It's great! > > I imagine there will now be a run on other domain names... > > pennsyremembered.com > pennsysteamyears.com > pennsydieselyears.com > etc. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:59:17 -0400 Friends: I disagree that "it would negatively impact attendance at conventions". I go when I am able and wish I could when I am NOT able to go. Video tapes and audio tapes or transcriptions would be perfect for me, I wouldn't have to miss anything when I am not able to go. In the 1980s I produced conferences for business people. We taped all the sessions and were always sold out both in seats and in tapes. People appreciate the memory longevity when the info is recorded. Model railroading is a participation activity, not just a viewing one. Having tapes available isn't going to make any negative impression on attendance, but it will improve relations with us guys out here in lines west territory who just can't get there. Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention > On 5/6/02 3:01 PM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > > > It seems to me that if someone was going to tell the > > died in the wool attendees what they know verbally that > > it would be pretty accurate. Also it wouldn't be > > difficult to record it and have a steno service type the > > remarks or just for the society to duplicate and sell > > tapes or CD's with a set of prints to go with the > > lecture showing the pictures used to illustrate the > > lecture. I think I would probably buy several of them > > or they could just do the whole convention as a set. > > I suppose that could be done, but I think it would negatively impact > attendence at conventions which, in the end, will reduce membership in the > Society itself. The Society would just become a bookstore. Getting together > and meeting new people and sharing experiences at the convention is well > worth the trip...perhaps more so than the seminars themselves. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:21:28 -0400 >From an audio-visual perspective, I must agree with Lewis. The sessions can be taped with audio, video, or both. In reference to the return on investment, the process will not only recover intial cost, the project can produce additional revenue for the society. I work in the field and see it all the time. The society may want to consider this subject for future events. I too would be interested in multimedia formats of presentations. With the advent of the internet, entire conventions or individual talks can be sold, including images in basic format preventing photo pirates from stealing pictures for private use. If Don Wood is up with the 21st century as far as taking photos, I feel this should be a sign of the times. He was snapping photos before the word digital was ever defined in a dictionary let alone used daily. This is not a fight for everyone to go digital, it is an acknowledgment to the way our world has evolved. Slides are still awesome, but digital is just as good, and compromise must be seen. Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. Audio-Visual Solutions, Inc. avmeetings@aol.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" To: "Jerry Britton" ; ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention > Friends: > > I disagree that "it would negatively impact > attendance at conventions". I go when I am able and wish I could when I am > NOT able to go. Video tapes and audio tapes or transcriptions would be > perfect for me, I wouldn't have to miss anything when I am not able to go. > > In the 1980s I produced conferences for business people. We taped all the > sessions and were always sold out both in seats and in tapes. People > appreciate the memory longevity when the info is recorded. > > Model railroading is a participation activity, not just a viewing one. > Having tapes available isn't going to make any negative impression on > attendance, but it will improve relations with us guys out here in lines > west territory who just can't get there. > > Lew Matt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: ; "PRR-Talk LIST" > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 3:08 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention > > > > On 5/6/02 3:01 PM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > > > > > It seems to me that if someone was going to tell the > > > died in the wool attendees what they know verbally that > > > it would be pretty accurate. Also it wouldn't be > > > difficult to record it and have a steno service type the > > > remarks or just for the society to duplicate and sell > > > tapes or CD's with a set of prints to go with the > > > lecture showing the pictures used to illustrate the > > > lecture. I think I would probably buy several of them > > > or they could just do the whole convention as a set. > > > > I suppose that could be done, but I think it would negatively impact > > attendence at conventions which, in the end, will reduce membership in the > > Society itself. The Society would just become a bookstore. Getting > together > > and meeting new people and sharing experiences at the convention is well > > worth the trip...perhaps more so than the seminars themselves. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 11:12:41 -0400 From: Zak Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention (but getting really off-subject) Everyone, please excuse me for butting in, however the statement below isn't - in my view - correct. I became interested in photography some 40+ years ago, and have done my own B&W and color work at times, developing and printing. I've also done my own slide work. While in the Army, for a time I did the same. I also have, and use, a digital camera now. To say that, "digital is just as good" to a print (B&W or color) made with ASA (oops, showing my age; I meant ISO) 50 film, or a slide in the same range, is not correct. In that sense, a print from digital media would not be as good - given present technology - as an 'old-fashioned' print. I apologize for wasting bandwidth. Zak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." To: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" ; "Jerry Britton" ; ; "PRR-Talk LIST" <--snip--> >Slides are still awesome, but digital is just as good, and compromise must be seen. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:08:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Cabin car lettering/decaling+phases Rick, That #3 lettering scheme you mentioned has a little interesting side note. You mention that the normal was to have the smaller 19"? Shadow Keystone. It originally called for the large 28"? Shadow Keystone. That large Keystone was very short lived (1 month?) on few Cabins. The Belt Line on the N5 interferred with the placement of the stenciling so the smaller Keystone was used when the time came for repaint/relettering. I have a photo of an N5b with this large Keystone and you can see that the bottom of the Keystone lays over the rivits. That was why the switch to the smaller Keystone.........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 00:29:15 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] an Encounter with Greatness Hi All, I would like to share with you what was BY FAR the highlight of this PRR T & HS convention. A picture can speak volumes. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/DonWood.jpg I am accepting my ORIGINAL Don Wood photo from the master himself on Friday 5-3-02. While many took home Don's images as a door prize, I think mine is different. Don said this particular print; "Woods Curve" is one of his favorites. It is on the center spread of pages 141-142 of "I Remember Pennsy." Furthermore, it is one of the last images that Don printed on photographic paper with his enlarger from the original negative. He has completely involved with the creative process of this print. He signed the back with a personal inscription. I am EXTREMELY HONORED to able to call this print my own. After this photo was taken, Don sat with us in the lobby for 45 minutes as if we were old friends. How can you possibly top this as a convention memory? Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Railroad Advertisements Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:32:41 -0400 Listers, The link below will send you to the Duke University library advertisement collection. If you click on the browse transportation you will get a search engine. If you type in Pennsylvania and search you will find some great PRR advertisements. http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/browse.html#trans I believe most are Magazine/newspaper advertisements but I haven't checked them all!!! Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] an Encounter with Greatness Hi Guys, One name has not been mentioned from the group of photographers present at the convention. Too bad he wasn't included at the Banquet. He departed the convention late Friday Afternoon. William V Russell. He started taking photos of PRR and other roads back in the early 30's. They may not have been as artisticaly done as Don Wood, but he recorded on film 1000's of views. I have many in my collection of photos. Now in his late 80's he is still clicking the shutter. He knew all the big time photographers of his time. I was glad to have met him in person briefly at Camp Hill. And as he told me via an email Sunday, he shared memories with Don at the convention. Seems they had never met before but most likely were at the same rail spots at the time photos were being taken. I think Bill Russell desreves a little spotlight also. Maybe at next years convention? Not too far from Delaware where Bill lives and the Philly area. Maybe e can stay a little longer there.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] NYC Hudson Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:33:41 -0400 Jerry, Have you (or someone) been forwarding the comments (most of them honest and constructive) to the manufacturer? With that amount of input, they have enough information to make the Hudson a really excellent locomotive model. Note that it can't be outstanding 'cuz it's NYC and not PRR. Also, maybe with all the interest and feedback from PRR SPF's, they'll accelerate the schedule for PRR locomotives and add more to the list. (Who's dreaming?) Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Annual meeting mail motion Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:37:07 -0400 I've been thinking about that nut who sent in the mail motion to remove Chuck Blardone from the BOD. (Never have I heard such an instant and loud silence from so many people!) Can we ask the board to do something really diabolical to him, like transfer his PRRT&HS membership to the NYC society? Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:39:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] NYC Hudson From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/02 2:33 PM, William Bigler (wbigler@stny.rr.com) wrote: > Have you (or someone) been forwarding the comments (most of them honest and > constructive) to the manufacturer? With that amount of input, they have > enough information to make the Hudson a really excellent locomotive model. > Note that it can't be outstanding 'cuz it's NYC and not PRR. Also, maybe > with all the interest and feedback from PRR SPF's, they'll accelerate the > schedule for PRR locomotives and add more to the list. (Who's dreaming?) > Absolutely. Everything is going to them. Though I do have a vested interest, rest assured that I am biased as a PRR modeler, not a dealer!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:44:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Annual meeting mail motion From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/02 2:37 PM, William Bigler (wbigler@stny.rr.com) wrote: > I've been thinking about that nut who sent in the mail motion to remove > Chuck Blardone from the BOD. (Never have I heard such an instant and loud > silence from so many people!) Can we ask the board to do something really > diabolical to him, like transfer his PRRT&HS membership to the NYC society? > I have no idea what's going on there...Chuck does a phenomenal job for the Society. And the fact that it was one letter and 330+ proxies were submitted. (I'd understand it if I was running!) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 15:21:00 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [PRR] Don Wood's Web Site Jerry writes... >There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a digital camera to shoot publication quality photos.< Though Jerry's general statement may be correct beware of digital camera's and the hope of publishing photos made from them. The megapixals required to achieve quality enough to publish need to be more like 500-plus from what I have been told and then consider the quality of the optics as well... Just compare the size of the lense of a 300 megapixel lense to that of the common 35mm lense. The smaller the lense the less quality, so if you are considering one for publication look closely. Bill Schaumberg of RMC gave these warnings to the crowds of folks at his seminar in Cocoa Beach this past January. Remember your photography being published still has to satisfy the criticism of the editor and as he said more articles are turned away for poor photography than for any other reason, regardless of subject. He is not alone in this as Bob Hundman is now looking for a digital camera that makes him comfortable in publishing. The slide scanners alone cost thousands of dollars by themselves. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:55:53 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] NG tower Howdy, Here's an interesting photo and a question... http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/NG.jpeg Is this a location on the PRR? It sure looks that way to me, and NG tower strikes a bell...but I'm not sure. FWIW, the print is owned by a friend of a guy on another list. No date was given, but if this is PRR it strikes me as early 20s? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: Re: [PRR] Don Wood's Web Site Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:46:29 -0400 As someone (!) once told Don Wood: "Why don't you get some better equipment and try again?" Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Jerry Britton" ; ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 3:21 PM Subject: Re: Re: [PRR] Don Wood's Web Site > Jerry writes... > > >There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a digital camera to shoot publication quality photos.< > > Though Jerry's general statement may be correct beware of digital camera's and the hope of publishing photos made from them. The megapixals required to achieve quality enough to publish need to be more like 500-plus from what I have been told and then consider the quality of the optics as well... Just compare the size of the lense of a 300 megapixel lense to that of the common 35mm lense. The smaller the lense the less quality, so if you are considering one for publication look closely. Bill Schaumberg of RMC gave these warnings to the crowds of folks at his seminar in Cocoa Beach this past January. Remember your photography being published still has to satisfy the criticism of the editor and as he said more articles are turned away for poor photography than for any other reason, regardless of subject. He is not alone in this as Bob Hundman is now looking for a digital camera that makes him comfortable in publishing. The slide scanners alone cost thousands of dollars by th! > emselves. > > Greg Martin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 17:03:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/02 3:55 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. at (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > Here's an interesting photo and a question... > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/NG.jpeg > Is this a location on the PRR? It sure looks that way to me, and NG tower > strikes a bell...but I'm not sure. > > FWIW, the print is owned by a friend of a guy on another list. No date was > given, but if this is PRR it strikes me as early 20s? > That really looks PRR... And the name rings a bell... Could be from around 1900, just before the tracks were expanded to four tracks. I would have initially guessed South Fork, where the flood occurred, but that's SO. I just quickly leafed through Triumph I and could not find any references to NG. HOWEVER, if you look carefully at the opposite riverbank in the distance, there appears to be a level right-of-way there as well. That may well indicate it's in the area where the mains are split to both sides of the river. Very possible the flood washed it out and it was never replaced. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 17:02:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Chartiers Branch info desired --part1_89.17aeda85.2a099af4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim: There is considerable information about the Chartiers aka Washington Branch in "The Building of Pan Handle Division of the Pennsylvania Railroad" by Cecil Howell. 1995. The problem is this was privately published. The only retail outlet that I am aware of was A. B. Charles & Son hobby shop in Pittsburgh. They may still have copies available. Rich Orr --part1_89.17aeda85.2a099af4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim:

There is considerable information about the Chartiers aka Washington Branch in "The Building of Pan Handle Division of the Pennsylvania Railroad" by Cecil Howell. 1995.  The problem is this was privately published.  The only retail outlet that I am aware of was A. B. Charles & Son hobby shop in Pittsburgh.  They may still have copies available.

Rich Orr --part1_89.17aeda85.2a099af4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 17:44:56 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Annual meeting mail motion In reading the e-mails and postings about last weekend's convention I felt for the very first time a small sense of satisfaction that the "good ol'e boy" network had finally given way to a new generation of people who really had it together. I am appalled to hear of the letter to remove Blardone from the BoD and would ask that everyone put it into the same context as Ted Kazinski the mad bomber. Some people cannot see the forest for the trees. I think that the PRRTHS is doing just fine! I congradulate all of you especially the younger "movers and doers" Bennett! Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 5/7/02 2:37 PM, William Bigler (wbigler@stny.rr.com) wrote: > > > I've been thinking about that nut who sent in the mail motion to remove > > Chuck Blardone from the BOD. (Never have I heard such an instant and loud > > silence from so many people!) Can we ask the board to do something really > > diabolical to him, like transfer his PRRT&HS membership to the NYC society? > > > I have no idea what's going on there...Chuck does a phenomenal job for the > Society. And the fact that it was one letter and 330+ proxies were > submitted. (I'd understand it if I was running!) > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 03:48:30 -0400 The NMRA has sold paperbound volumes of the texts of clinics for most of its national conventions going back many years. Moreover, many of the clinics are videotaped, albeit my private individuals with the permission of the clinic presenter. In any event, I don't believe there has been any negative impact on national convention attendance just because the clinic texts are available. One goes to conventions for the fellowship, the hands-on participation, the in-person layout visits, etc. A record of the proceedings would be valuable not only to those who could not attend a given convention, but also for those who were there but know it will not be necessary to take copious notes at the clinic programs. W. Terry Stuart NMRA Life Member P.S. Lew... did you solve your crossing problem with the NS? If not, please e-mail off-list. I may be able to help. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:04:38 -0400 From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower > On 5/7/02 3:55 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. at (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) > wrote: > > > Here's an interesting photo and a question... > > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/NG.jpeg > > Is this a location on the PRR? It sure looks that way to me, and NG tower > > strikes a bell...but I'm not sure. On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 05:03:17PM -0400, Jerry Britton wrote: > That really looks PRR... And the name rings a bell... Could be from around > 1900, just before the tracks were expanded to four tracks. > I would have initially guessed South Fork, where the flood occurred, but > that's SO. I just quickly leafed through Triumph I and could not find any > references to NG. > HOWEVER, if you look carefully at the opposite riverbank in the distance, > there appears to be a level right-of-way there as well. That may well > indicate it's in the area where the mains are split to both sides of the > river. As I noted to Bruce off-list, the track in the foreground appears to diverge off to the stream valley to the right of the photo; I can't tell if there's a wye here or not. There is a right-of-way on the opposite bank as Jerry notes; however, is this a road or a railroad? The geography, to me, does not appear typical for the Conpitt area (RR on both sides of the river), and the river appears too small to be the Conemaugh R. west of Johnstown. The mountain behind the train looks a lot like the point of Tussey Mtn., save for the lack of the Spruce Creek tunnel(s) piercing it. As for SO, that tower and town have a flat area of ground they sit on that is much wider than what I see in this picture. The location looks, to me, most like the upper sections of the Juniata (upstream from Huntington) or maybe the Little Juniata. I am basing this speculation purely on the geography. Perhaps, if all else fails, you could carbon-date the coffee stain in the lower left corner and at least get a year for the photograph! :-))) -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 17:34:39 -0400 Guys, This photo looks familiar to me,also. RICH ORR could this be a photo on the B&O, that is at the museum? Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Bruce Smith" ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower > On 5/7/02 3:55 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. at (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) > wrote: > > > Here's an interesting photo and a question... > > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/NG.jpeg > > Is this a location on the PRR? It sure looks that way to me, and NG tower > > strikes a bell...but I'm not sure. > > > > FWIW, the print is owned by a friend of a guy on another list. No date was > > given, but if this is PRR it strikes me as early 20s? > > > That really looks PRR... And the name rings a bell... Could be from around > 1900, just before the tracks were expanded to four tracks. > > I would have initially guessed South Fork, where the flood occurred, but > that's SO. I just quickly leafed through Triumph I and could not find any > references to NG. > > HOWEVER, if you look carefully at the opposite riverbank in the distance, > there appears to be a level right-of-way there as well. That may well > indicate it's in the area where the mains are split to both sides of the > river. > > Very possible the flood washed it out and it was never replaced. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention (but getting really off-subject) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:30:30 -0400 Zak and others- I am not going into the debate about whether digital or traditional prints are of better quality. I must say though, if a digital print is done via professional equipment, it can stand its own. Besides that, I will say that to date, 35 mm film does hold its own when it comes to archives, digital cannot last nearly as long as a 35mm slide, negative, etc. Just read into the differences, digital is able to produce high end long lasting quality prints, but lack in the archive arena. I can send you information off line should you be interested in the differences. Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zak" To: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention (but getting really off-subject) > Everyone, please excuse me for butting in, however the statement below > isn't - in my view - correct. I became interested in photography some 40+ > years ago, and have done my own B&W and color work at times, developing and > printing. I've also done my own slide work. > > While in the Army, for a time I did the same. > > I also have, and use, a digital camera now. > > To say that, "digital is just as good" to a print (B&W or color) made with > ASA (oops, showing my age; I meant ISO) 50 film, or a slide in the same > range, is not correct. > > In that sense, a print from digital media would not be as good - given > present technology - as an 'old-fashioned' print. > > I apologize for wasting bandwidth. > > Zak > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." > To: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" ; "Jerry Britton" > ; ; "PRR-Talk LIST" > <--snip--> > >Slides are still awesome, but digital is just as good, and compromise must > be seen. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: Re: [PRR] Don Wood's Web Site Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:34:14 -0400 Greg- You hit the nail on the head. To produce a quality photo, you need a quality digital camera. Not just one with a high number of megapixels, but one that also has optical zoom, not megapixel zoom. The average person cant afford the camera's that are available to produce this type of digital quality. To get a 4plus megapixel camera with 10time optical zoom, your price will start at 3,000 dollars. Not to mention, digital cameras take a brief second to focus then shoot after the button is pushed. Eventually, technology will bring the quality evan greater and the prices down. Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Jerry Britton" ; ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 3:21 PM Subject: Re: Re: [PRR] Don Wood's Web Site > Jerry writes... > > >There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a digital camera to shoot publication quality photos.< > > Though Jerry's general statement may be correct beware of digital camera's and the hope of publishing photos made from them. The megapixals required to achieve quality enough to publish need to be more like 500-plus from what I have been told and then consider the quality of the optics as well... Just compare the size of the lense of a 300 megapixel lense to that of the common 35mm lense. The smaller the lense the less quality, so if you are considering one for publication look closely. Bill Schaumberg of RMC gave these warnings to the crowds of folks at his seminar in Cocoa Beach this past January. Remember your photography being published still has to satisfy the criticism of the editor and as he said more articles are turned away for poor photography than for any other reason, regardless of subject. He is not alone in this as Bob Hundman is now looking for a digital camera that makes him comfortable in publishing. The slide scanners alone cost thousands of dollars by themselves. > > Greg Martin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention List, First let me say that this is NOT a complaint. Why in the world did Richard Steinheimer give a slide show of the Southern Pacific at the PRRT&HS Convention? I thought that was kind of strange. All the Pennsy photos he took back in the 1950s and 60s of the PRR, I thought the slide show would be about the PRR. Instead we got the snow bound Cascade Range. I went with 8 people from the Philly area and we all agreed that was really strange. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hanel29@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 23:13:37 +0000 For one who could not attend the convention due to surgery and long-term recuperation I really appreciate the commentary by the various attendees. It seems to me that copies of handouts and/or texts of the presentations, if made available, (even on a cost basis) would be appreciated by those who could not attend for whatever reason. Glad you all had such a good session! - HANK > The NMRA has sold paperbound volumes of the texts of clinics for most of its > national conventions going back many years. Moreover, many of the clinics > are videotaped, albeit my private individuals with the permission of the > clinic presenter. > > In any event, I don't believe there has been any negative impact on national > convention attendance just because the clinic texts are available. > > One goes to conventions for the fellowship, the hands-on participation, the > in-person layout visits, etc. > > A record of the proceedings would be valuable not only to those who could > not attend a given convention, but also for those who were there but know it > will not be necessary to take copious notes at the clinic programs. > > W. Terry Stuart > NMRA Life Member > > > P.S. Lew... did you solve your crossing problem with the NS? If not, > please e-mail off-list. I may be able to help. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:28:27 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower --part1_63.b2fe790.2a09bd1b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry et al., The tower where the Snag Hollow Cutoff left the mainline west of Johnstown was SG. The tracks are still in use by NS. While reduced in number and the use of the Snag Hollow cutoff as a name has been dropped, NS operates this as a 3 track mainline with the cutoff being track 3. Rich Orr --part1_63.b2fe790.2a09bd1b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry et al.,

The tower where the Snag Hollow Cutoff left the mainline west of Johnstown was SG.  The tracks are still in use by NS.  While reduced in number and the use of the Snag Hollow cutoff as a name has been dropped, NS operates this as a 3 track mainline with the cutoff being track 3.

Rich Orr --part1_63.b2fe790.2a09bd1b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:43:02 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower --part1_15d.d9876bb.2a09c086_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, The setting is very similar to the B&O Indian Creek Branch jct with the mainline. That would mean the river is the Yougigheny (sp?) and the "road" on the opposite side of the river would be the Western Maryland. I don't know what the telegraph designation for the Indian Creek Tower was on the B&O. NG tower on the PRR was located at MP 16.6 on the New Cumberland branch (secondary). The branch left the Pan Handle mainline at Weirton Jct. as the Weirton secondary at WN it became the New Cumberland secondary and went to Kobuta. NG was at Congo. I have no idea if this area is similar to that in the photo. Rich Orr --part1_15d.d9876bb.2a09c086_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim,

The setting is very similar to the B&O Indian Creek Branch jct with the mainline.  That would mean the river is the Yougigheny (sp?) and the "road" on the opposite side of the river would be the Western Maryland.  I don't know what the telegraph designation for the Indian Creek Tower was on the B&O.

NG tower on the PRR was located at MP 16.6 on the New Cumberland branch (secondary).  The branch left the Pan Handle mainline at Weirton Jct. as the Weirton secondary at WN it became the New Cumberland secondary and went to Kobuta.  NG was at Congo.  I have no idea if this area is similar to that in the photo.

Rich Orr --part1_15d.d9876bb.2a09c086_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:01:04 -0400 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: [PRR] Re: PRRT&HS Convention I'll go ahead and add my two cents to the convention chatter... This year was my first PRRT&HS convention, and I loved it. I'm already planning on going next year, even if the drive will be two hours longer. I enjoyed getting to see some old friends and acquiantances again and also meeting some new folks, including the listmeister and several other people on PRR-Talk. All of the programs were also excellent, along with the models in the model room. Seeing Dan Cupper's program Thursday night really helped me visualize the changes and events around there, since I had been down to Rockville Bridge just a few hours earlier. A couple of times during the show I remember thinking to myself "I was standing right *there* not too long ago." Sure was neat just seeing lots of other "big name" people around the convention. I remember seeing some friends in the lobby who were sitting around on the chairs and couches talking at one point, and I sat down in an open spot on the one couch. Another gentleman was already sitting there next to me, so I said hello an introduced myself. It was Gil Reid. *The* Gil Reid. He was telling me stories about riding the streetcars in Chicago years ago. That was just too cool... Anyway, I'm hooked! Looking forward to doing it again in Philly next year. -JWJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 17:24:17 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower --- SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > Jerry et al., > > The tower where the Snag Hollow Cutoff Sang Hollow Extension. > left the mainline west of Johnstown was SG. > The tracks are still in use by NS. While > reduced in number and the > use of the Snag Hollow cutoff as a name has been > dropped, About 5 years ago I rode Amtrak from Greensburg to Altoona. The crew referred to the track as the Sang Hollow Extension, although the name may have been dropped from official publications. > NS operates this as > a 3 track mainline with the cutoff being track 3. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:54:21 -0400 From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 07:43:02PM -0400, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > > NG tower on the PRR was located at MP 16.6 on the New Cumberland branch > (secondary). The branch left the Pan Handle mainline at Weirton Jct. as the > Weirton secondary at WN it became the New Cumberland secondary and went to > Kobuta. NG was at Congo. I have no idea if this area is similar to that in > the photo. Well, except for one item: the Ohio River is pretty large all along the New Cumberland Branch. The river in this photo is clearly not the Ohio. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Williams" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Wrap Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:36:27 -0400 Hi all: I had my first chance to attend your convention since the last time it was in Lancaster. What a great time. I know it's a lot of work for those behind the scenes. Thanks to everyone who worked hard so that I could have a good time. Craig Williams ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 21:04:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" First of all, I can't read "NG" on the side of the tower. We are taking someone's word for it. Perhaps if we zoom in using PhotoShop or something we can confirm. I've been in and out of more than a dozen books looking for NG tower. The geography STRONGLY suggests the area west of Johnstown, towards Torrance. Many other towers along this stretch have similar names. I suspect that this photo was taken no later than 1902 or so, when the line was widened to four tracks. The tower may have been removed to allow for the additional tracks and not replaced, or perhaps washed out in the flood in the 1890's (if it is indeed near Johnstown). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale -- http//kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 21:35:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] an interesting photo --part1_f2.1b39a7fd.2a09dae1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/6/2002 9:18:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, davep@quik.com writes: > There were other installations of train phone, off the PRR. > My foggy mind says Kansas City Southern was one. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_f2.1b39a7fd.2a09dae1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/6/2002 9:18:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, davep@quik.com writes:


There were other installations of train phone, off the PRR.


My foggy mind says Kansas City Southern was one.

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_f2.1b39a7fd.2a09dae1_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 22:12:36 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Annual meeting mail motion In a message dated 5/7/02 5:47:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net writes: << I am appalled to hear of the letter to remove Blardone from the BoD and would ask that everyone put it into the same context as Ted Kazinski the mad bomber. >> I also would see it as a very poor idea to offend the guy who has given us so much information and pleasure through the society's publications - but therein lies the rub. (assuming the mail motion was not from a guy with a dull ax) Some might see an employee/contractor serving at the pleasure of the board - and holding a seat on that body - who also set the budget for his publications - as a conflict of interest. In many organizations, Businesses and non-profits, the CEO and important employees report at the Board Meetings, but are asked to "close the door behind them" once the business of the board begins. I was not at the convention, but seen in this context, the motion was not necessarily an insult to Mr. Blardone. R E Ross, Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] an Encounter with Greatness Hi Guys, One name has not been mentioned from the group of photographers present at the convention. Too bad he wasn't included at the Banquet. He departed the convention late Friday Afternoon. William V Russell. He started taking photos of PRR and other roads back in the early 30's. They may not have been as artisticaly done as Don Wood, but he recorded on film 1000's of views. I have many in my collection of photos. Now in his late 80's he is still clicking the shutter. He knew all the big time photographers of his time. I was glad to have met him in person briefly at Camp Hill. And as he told me via an email Sunday, he shared memories with Don at the convention. Seems they had never met before but most likely were at the same rail spots at the time photos were being taken. I think Bill Russell desreves a little spotlight also. Maybe at next years convention? Not too far from Delaware where Bill lives and the Philly area. Maybe e can stay a little longer there.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:02:08 -0700 Subject: [PRR] "Woods Curve" From: "Douglas Nelson" > "Woods Curve" is one of his favorites. It is on the > center spread of pages 141-142 of "I Remember Pennsy." Where is Wood's Curve? Is it opposite the Diner in Cove? Is it named after Don Wood, like Murrant's Curve is named after the Canadian Pacific photographer? Thanks, Doug. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Nelson" Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:02:08 -0700 Subject: [PRR-FAX] "Woods Curve" > "Woods Curve" is one of his favorites. It is on the > center spread of pages 141-142 of "I Remember Pennsy." Where is Wood's Curve? Is it opposite the Diner in Cove? Is it named after Don Wood, like Murrant's Curve is named after the Canadian Pacific photographer? Thanks, Doug. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] NG tower Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 00:50:58 -0400 Just some more observations - more like a wild guess; At first I thought they were telephone poles, but on closer inspection the two poles near the tower appear to be signal masts. Are the signals the upper quadrant type? The lower signal on the mast next to the river appears to be facing the cameraman - notice the straight edge that cuts the mast and what looks to be a lens in the middle of the pole. I don't see an upper signal - although it may be in the proceed indication and blending into the background The mast next to the tower appears to have two signals, both at stop. I don't think these are the telephone/telegraph poles - note the guy wire on the double crossed pole in the center of the picture (shouldn't we be able to see the wires too??) - its distance from the track structure is fairly typical - while the two masts are right off the ballast. The next telephone/telegraph pole looks to be in back of the tower. Armstrong signals - no relay/junction box at the bottom of the mast - Note the well-worn path next to the track next to the river. Is that a mail hoop with a bag attached? Note the razor sharp ballast edge on the two main line tracks - and the almost total lack thereof on the line in back of the tower. At the last car in the train - is that another tower? Why is the guardrail only on that section in the middle? Lots of growth next to the masonry work at the back of the train. If it is on the Pennsy and if they are upper quadrant signals and the ballast is still nice a sharp - my guess is after 1912 but before the Great Depression? Is that a square or round headlight on the locomotive? If I zoom in on it - it blurs too much. That's enough for tonight - Bruce, any chance of a higher resolution image? Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com.trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 3:56 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] NG tower Howdy, Here's an interesting photo and a question... http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/NG.jpeg Is this a location on the PRR? It sure looks that way to me, and NG tower strikes a bell...but I'm not sure. FWIW, the print is owned by a friend of a guy on another list. No date was given, but if this is PRR it strikes me as early 20s? Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 06:16:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Annual meeting mail motion From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/02 10:12 PM, VVA249@aol.com at (VVA249@aol.com) wrote: > Some might see an employee/contractor serving at the pleasure of the board - > and holding a seat on that body - who also set the budget for his > publications - as a conflict of interest. I was director of publications at a four year college for six years. One of my many publications was the alumni magazine. It was of a similar size and circulation as that of The Keystone. I can tell you from that experience that the quality you are getting in The Keystone for the price reported is a very good price! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 06:18:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] "Woods Curve" From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/02 11:02 PM, Douglas Nelson at (dougnelson@mindspring.com) wrote: >> "Woods Curve" is one of his favorites. It is on the >> center spread of pages 141-142 of "I Remember Pennsy." > > Where is Wood's Curve? Is it opposite the Diner in Cove? Is it named after > Don Wood, like Murrant's Curve is named after the Canadian Pacific > photographer? > Yes, that's the spot. And only PRR folks call it "Wood's Curve", after the many shots he took there. Even the locals won't know it by that name. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 07:11:04 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Thanks for visiting the Cornwall I wanted to say thanks to the people that visited my layout on Friday night. Aside from the confusion about the parking most visitors appeared to have a good time. I know I did. I heard a lot of nice comments about the scenery and I wanted to publicly announce that my artistic skills did not magically improve in two years. The dramatic changes are due to the fantastic efforts of my wife of 26 years (today), Mary. I would come home after work and her first words were, "You have to come downstairs to see what I have done today." My crew would rough in the basic shape and do some initial painting to hide the pink foam but after they left, the scenery fairy would work her magic. She took over the one corner to build her model of her ancestoral home, the Krall Farm, from Schaefferstown, Pa. In the 1945 CT1000, her uncle, Allen Krall, had a stop on the Lebanon Branch of the Philadelphia Division just North of Cornwall, Pa. They raised horses and must have shipped them by rail. I can't find out any information on it. I hope the recent improvements involving the signals and scenery showed off some of the work my crew has done over the past two years. As stated before, I hope everyone had as good of a time as I did. I finally got to meet some of the "names" from the lists and answer some of the questions about the computer interface and the recent operations. I will be happy to do it again the next time the convention rolls into Camp Hill. Anyone that couldn't make it and still wants to visit, just drop me a line and I'll give you the nickel tour. Until next time, Nick Kulp President of the Cornwall Railroad http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:49:55 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: [PRR] E8's on Delaware Avenue During tomorrow Afternoon (Thursday) there will be a special train consisting of 5711, 5809, 3 AMFLEETS, 1157 and 120 operating from the Hyatt hotel at the foot of Walnut Street to CP River via the Navy Yard, and the Highline. The return will be via the Columbia Bridge, the Eastside RR (B&O) to the Hyatt. Departure time 2 PM. If you go to photo the train please watch where you park and how you drive because Delaware Ave will be very congested. Enjoy yourselves! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 09:53:36 -0400 From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 05/07/02/// Convention Tapes, etc Gentry, I have to agree with Benjamin and other fellas about making tapes of some of these convention presentations available. It's true, nothing compares to actually being there, but it's also true that attendence isn't always possible for a good many Pennsy fans. Jerry says the trip is well worth it, but my perspective on that may be a bit different, seeing as how he's speaking of a ten or fifteen minute drive to Camp Hill for himself but a two-day drive for me. I'm anticipating Cinncy, as that's only 700 miles and I can make it in one day's driving if I push it. Other members live at even greater distances, and we all face numerous other demands on our time. I dunno, maybe it's not do-able in any event, but the idea seems like a good one. And I really can't see how it might hurt attendence. I can't imagine these presentations, great as they are, being the only draw to attending. Personally, I've found the aura of fellowship to be the main attraction at conventions, not to mention layout tours, model displays, vendors that specialize their goods, railfanning a new location and just taking a vacation away from the everyday grind to be well worth it. The excellent presentations we've come to enjoy so much are icing on the cake, at least from my point of view. Oh well, just my thoughts, and hopefully South Jersey will be another great get-together for everyone who can make it. regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] K8 Stock Car Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:08:16 -0400 Listers, I was going through some notes from an old PRRT&HS meeting and found an index card on converting a Train Miniature stock car to a K8. I was wondering if this would make a passable car? Shave off the ribs (not sure whether these are the roof or end ribs) Add letter boards use an Athearn stock car door give it a straight center sill Any comments? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Convention proceedings Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 14:09:17 +0000 I wonder if it would be possible to access the presentation in some form of streaming video or audio over the web? If the society could set up a server where you could sign in with your name and member number as the password maybe we could download streaming video of the event. That way the society wouldn't have any expense but could charge a credit card fee for viewing the material. It could even be real time during the convention for those of us who can't attend. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention proceedings Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:16:30 -0400 Great idea but I think majority of our members who do/cannot attend yet would be interested in the information do not access the web. We still need to have the presentations in a multi-media form. Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:09 AM Subject: [PRR] Convention proceedings > I wonder if it would be possible to access the > presentation in some form of streaming video or audio > over the web? If the society could set up a server > where you could sign in with your name and member number > as the password maybe we could download streaming video > of the event. That way the society wouldn't have any > expense but could charge a credit card fee for viewing > the material. It could even be real time during the > convention for those of us who can't attend. Norm Bell > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:33:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention proceedings From: Jerry Britton On 5/8/02 10:09 AM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > I wonder if it would be possible to access the > presentation in some form of streaming video or audio > over the web? If the society could set up a server > where you could sign in with your name and member number > as the password maybe we could download streaming video > of the event. That way the society wouldn't have any > expense but could charge a credit card fee for viewing > the material. It could even be real time during the > convention for those of us who can't attend. Norm Bell > Not practical. Setting up a server with the right hardware is kind of the easy part. It's the ISP connection that would kill the proposal. For streaming video, a T1 or T3 line would be required. These "can" cost thousands of dollars to install (depending on the TelCo) and the monthly ISP cost is very expensive. Totally impractical to do for a four day event! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 11:02:59 -0400 Subject: [PRR] "Merchandise Service" Painting and Lettering Diagram From: Jerry Britton Does anyone have a painting and lettering diagram for a "Merchandise Service" car? I don't care which class of box car, nor am I concerned about which phase of the MS scheme it shows. I am looking for a high quality diagram, preferably an original. Please contact me off-list. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 08:35:47 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] That picture of NG Tower "Stemwinders in the Laurel Highlands" Benjamin B. F. Kline, Jr. #13 in the series Logging Railroad Era of Lumbering in Pennsylvania page 1374 This shows a photo of the area around the mouth of Indian Creek at its confluence with the Youghiogheny River. The caption says "Indian Creek after 1900" (big help). The tower is not there but the curved retaining wall with the three arches over Indian Creek is. Text on page 1375 says that construction of the Indian Creek Valley Railroad began in 1906 and remained independent until it was "absorbed" by the B&O in 1926. In any event, I'm convinced that, as someone else suggested, the "mysterious location" is on the B&O at Indian Creek, Pa, after 1906 or so. The grade visible in the distance on the opposite bank of the river would be the Western Maryland. The picture in "Stemwinders" also shows the river runnning off into the distance, but I don't see any sign of the grade on the opposite bank. To my eye, the grade looks rather "fresh", but that doesn't help as I have no idea when the WM built through that valley. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 09:11:20 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRR water supply, Indian Creek As I was poking around at Terraserver in aid of the "where is NG tower" matter, one of the maps reminded me of something that's been nagging me for some time. Ages ago, late '40's I'd guess, I was on a family expedition into the lower reaches of the Indian Creek valley. To my surprise, I saw a system of flumes, then derelect, extending for a few miles along Indian Creek. There was a main flume along the creek and branches which ran off at high angles to the hillsides on both sides of the valley, some of them passing over the road we were on. Always wondered what that was in aid of. About 10 years ago, I came across a volume of technical papers, the Proceedings of the XIVth Conference on something or other of some engineering society or other, dating from sometime in the first quarter of the 20th century. Main thing is that one of the papers was on the economic impact of mine waste water in western Pa. The author mentioned in passing that in order to obtain water suitable for locomotive boiler use at its Pittsburgh terminal, the Pennsylvania Railroad constructed miles of flumes in the watershed of Indian Creek to catch mine water and divert it past the railroad's reservoirs. The vagueness of the citation notwithstanding, I'm sure he said "PRR", "Indian Creek", and "Pittsburgh". At the time I read it, my long-term memory kicked in and I said "Aha. That's what I saw down there that time we were going to wherever it was..." Returning to the present, I recall that PRR had a system of reservoirs, water mains, and pumping stations which extended along the main line from the western face of Laurel Hill to or perhaps beyond Pittsburgh. Given that, I'm beginning to think that there would have been little reason to go to the Indian Creek Valley for yet more water, especially since that would require tens of miles of pipes, much of it tens of miles from any other PRR property. So, the question: Did the PRR in fact own and operate waterworks in the Indian Creek watershed, or was the engineer who said that confused? It would make more sense to me to suppose that the B&O would draw water from that source. This does tie into "where is NG tower" since: 1. The water pipes carrying water from Indian Creek to Pittsburgh would have passed through the area photographed (although probably buried and hence invisible). 2. The USGS topo map at Terraserver shows a flume along the creek, upstream from the area of the photograph (out of view to the right). ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:48:02 -0400 Subject: [PRR] New Pics Posted From: Jerry Britton I've posted 30 digital pics from my travels from May 2-5 related to the convention. If you go to http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ and accept the defaults you will see the most recent photos first, ten to a page. Among the shots are * The Sherman's Valley Railroad (live steam) * Bob Martin's open house (HO scale) * Inside the Mifflin passenger station (an NS worker let us in) * The cistern for the Hawstone track pans * Todd Treaster's open house (N scale, not on tour) Enjoy! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] K8 Stock Car Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:02:37 -0500 Chris, Here are my thoughts on building a K8 stockcar. I was thinking of using a Red Caboose X29. This would give me the roof, running board, underframe, brake system, ladders, brake staff & step, stirrups, trucks, etc. Sides, ends, and doors would be scratchbuilt, and then used for masters for resin parts. I think a fleet of cars could be built this way. Any comments on how accurate a car could be built this way? I have to study the diagrams on Rob's page some more, but a preliminary look shows the dimensions of the K8 and X29 to be close. Another thing to consider is decals. This subject has come up a few times on the steam-era freightcars list. I don't think decals are available for early 50's era cars (my era). I'll check the archives and see what has been posted about this. Your idea of using the Train Miniature car may be another good one. I don't have one of these cars, but if it is based on their X29 tooling, you may have a good starting point. Maybe the Red Caboose underframe parts could be used. Andy Cich ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 05:56:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Sullivan Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 05/07/02 Well, to some extent this may be true, but I have to say there are probably a large number of PRRT&HS members (who are very dedicated fans) who just cannot make the trip for one reason or another (I myself was unable to attend b/c I just purchased a house and I'm planning a 6/1 wedding at the same time - weekends are VERY full). I don't think the convention will "become a bookstore", but rather have more to offer. What a great resource it would be for the society to offer the information presented at the conventions (CD-ROM, VHS, book, magazine) to the public. If anything, I think that would *increase* the membership of the society, rather than decrease it. And, you're absolutely right, although I have not yet attended a convention I can understand that NOTHING can replace the face-to-face interactions you will have being there in person. My point is that the information presented, which is invaluable, rare, and hard enough to come by as it is, would be sought after by many if offered publicly. - Ben Sullivan PRRT&HS 6998 > Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 15:08:42 -0400 > > On 5/6/02 3:01 PM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > > > It seems to me that if someone was going to tell the > > died in the wool attendees what they know verbally that > > it would be pretty accurate. Also it wouldn't be > > difficult to record it and have a steno service type the > > remarks or just for the society to duplicate and sell > > tapes or CD's with a set of prints to go with the > > lecture showing the pictures used to illustrate the > > lecture. I think I would probably buy several of them > > or they could just do the whole convention as a set. > > I suppose that could be done, but I think it would negatively impact > attendence at conventions which, in the end, will reduce membership in the > Society itself. The Society would just become a bookstore. Getting together > and meeting new people and sharing experiences at the convention is well > worth the trip...perhaps more so than the seminars themselves. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 17:08:52 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Progress on Broadway Limited Imports J1e From: Jerry Britton Not even allowing the dust to settle from last weekends test runs, I just got off the phone with the vice president of sales from Broadway Limited Imports... (he called me, by the way) As previously mentioned, the unit we had on demo at the convention was a prototype. The sales rep who dropped it off had not informed me that the unit was mainly provided for looks, DCC evaluation, and sound. Others in the company were all too aware that it lacked pulling power. I am told that the second round of prototypes have now arrived in the states. The new unit easily pulled 16 cars and a caboose on a 2.5% grade. They felt it could pull more, but lacked length in the grade to perform such a test. The change in this prototype can be attributed both to added weight and a new gearbox. I am assured that by the time the unit is released it will pull as expected. I also reiterated my previous offer to the sales rep to test run additional prototypes on real layouts on real grades. It is up to BLI to decide whether or not to take me up on it. I'm sure they will do so...somewhere. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 20:17:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR water supply, Indian Creek --part1_188.7a1442c.2a0b1a0a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob and list: After you jarred my memory about the Indian Creek branch, I dugout an old B&O ETT for 1938. It shows a tower, signals, water and wye at Indian Creek. Unfortunately, there are no telegraphic call letters for the tower. The nearest tower identified with call letters is GU some 4.6 miles east of Indian Creek. The B&O may have built the flumes to protect its water supply in the area. Rich Orr --part1_188.7a1442c.2a0b1a0a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob and list:

After you jarred my memory about the Indian Creek branch, I dugout an old B&O ETT for 1938.  It shows a tower, signals, water and wye at Indian Creek.  Unfortunately, there are no telegraphic call letters for the tower.  The nearest tower identified with call letters is GU some 4.6 miles east of Indian Creek.

The B&O may have built the flumes to protect its water supply in the area.

Rich Orr --part1_188.7a1442c.2a0b1a0a_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 18:04:53 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] NG Tower photo, add'l data Assuming the photo really was taken at Indian Creek, Pa on the B&O, then the grade in the far background is the Connellsville and State Line, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Western Maryland. It was built in 1912. That from the 1915 Poor's Manual of Railroads. Thus, the NG Tower photo was taken in or after 1912. I continue to think that the distant grade looks quite new. How long would it take for steam locomotives to spew enough cinders to blacken the whole area along the tracks? Whatever your answer, I think the picture must have been taken within that many years after 1912. But, since I claim I've shown the photo to be of a B&O Tower, I've also shown this post to be Off Topic. I now quickly retire, hoping to evade the Topic Police. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Duane C. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 22:34:55 -0400 The photograph also appears on page 139 of the book Sand Patch by Charles S. Roberts. It is of Indian Creek on the B&O west of Ohiopyle. The tower call letters is actually NC instead of NG. Duane Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: "S J Lash" To: "Jerry Britton" ; "Bruce Smith" ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower > Guys, This photo looks familiar to me,also. RICH ORR could this be a photo > on the B&O, that is at the museum? Jim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "Bruce Smith" ; "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 5:03 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower > > > > On 5/7/02 3:55 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. at > (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) > > wrote: > > > > > Here's an interesting photo and a question... > > > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/NG.jpeg > > > Is this a location on the PRR? It sure looks that way to me, and NG > tower > > > strikes a bell...but I'm not sure. > > > > > > FWIW, the print is owned by a friend of a guy on another list. No date > was > > > given, but if this is PRR it strikes me as early 20s? > > > > > That really looks PRR... And the name rings a bell... Could be from around > > 1900, just before the tracks were expanded to four tracks. > > > > I would have initially guessed South Fork, where the flood occurred, but > > that's SO. I just quickly leafed through Triumph I and could not find any > > references to NG. > > > > HOWEVER, if you look carefully at the opposite riverbank in the distance, > > there appears to be a level right-of-way there as well. That may well > > indicate it's in the area where the mains are split to both sides of the > > river. > > > > Very possible the flood washed it out and it was never replaced. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 07:01:30 -0400 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] Lane Tower Hi All, Does anyone have any photos of Lane Tower? Is it still standing? I am trying to get info for Bob Strong to build one for me. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:37:07 EDT Subject: [PRR] More on cabin lettering application --part1_12e.111950c8.2a0bb963_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/7/02 2:46:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] Cabin car lettering/decaling+phases > skipped+renumbering > From: "Gary Mittner" > Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:08:41 -0400 (EDT) > > Rick, > > That #3 lettering scheme you mentioned has a little interesting > side note. You mention that the normal was to have the smaller 19"? > Shadow Keystone. It originally called for the large 28"? Shadow > Keystone. That large Keystone was very short lived (1 month?) on few > Cabins. The Belt Line on the N5 interferred with the placement of the > stenciling so the smaller Keystone was used when the time came for > repaint/relettering. I have a photo of an N5b with this large Keystone > and you can see that the bottom of the Keystone lays over the rivits. > That was why the switch to the smaller Keystone.........Gary > Thanks, Gary. For those of us who we've managed to confuse thoroughly, the "Number 3 scheme" you cite from my posting is (in the McGuire classification of lettering phases), Shadow Keystone 1b, or "SK1b". SK1b was PRR's seventh standard lettering scheme for equipment of owned and leased lines. Starting in June of 1954, SK1b was the standard scheme on revenue freight cars. In late 1955, tracing 4563369 was issued applying this scheme to cabin cars, and the photo evidence is that many cars got this scheme. It was very common on N5, N5C, and N6B cabins (see tracing 456416, issued in Feb 1956, for the woodsheathed version of lettering placement). Remarkably, SK1b appears to have been the last mass scheme applied to N6B's. Conversely, SK1b is scarce on N8's, undoubtedly because they were painted in their variant of CK when built in 1948, and didn't need repainting before the end of the 1950's. At the end of the decade, N5, N5C, and N8 cabins accumulated sizeable numbers of SK2b lettering jobs (prime visible difference being the 7" gothic numbers). SK2b was the ninth PRR standard lettering style for revenue freight cars. I'd like to find the arrangement drawings for cabins covering this period. PK became standard for all the steel cabins in December 1961. PK was the tenth and last lettering scheme for freight cars. It's interesting that the N8 calls for the 33" plain keystone, whereas the tracing for N5, N5A, B, C, D, E, F classes call for the 28" plain keystone. Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone or fax 502-228-4997 (8am to 8pm please) Wolf Penn Station 5108 Wolf Pen Woods Drive Prospect, KY 40059-9197 --part1_12e.111950c8.2a0bb963_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/7/02 2:46:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] Cabin car lettering/decaling+phases    skipped+renumbering
From: "Gary Mittner" <mittner@webtv.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:08:41 -0400 (EDT)

Rick,

     That #3 lettering scheme you mentioned has a little interesting
side note. You mention that the normal was to have the smaller 19"?
Shadow Keystone. It originally called for the large 28"? Shadow
Keystone. That large Keystone was very short lived (1 month?)  on few
Cabins. The Belt Line on the N5 interferred with the placement of the
stenciling so the smaller Keystone was used when the time came for
repaint/relettering. I have a photo of an N5b with this large Keystone
and you can see that the bottom of the Keystone lays over the rivits.
That was why the switch to the smaller Keystone.........Gary


Thanks, Gary.  For those of us who we've managed to confuse thoroughly, the "Number 3 scheme" you cite from my posting is (in the McGuire classification of lettering phases), Shadow Keystone 1b, or "SK1b".  SK1b was PRR's seventh standard lettering scheme for equipment of owned and leased lines.

Starting in June of 1954, SK1b was the standard scheme on revenue freight cars.  In late 1955, tracing 4563369 was issued applying this scheme to cabin cars, and the photo evidence is that many cars got this scheme.  It was very common on N5, N5C, and N6B cabins (see tracing 456416, issued in Feb 1956, for the woodsheathed version of lettering placement).

Remarkably, SK1b appears to have been the last mass scheme applied to N6B's.  Conversely, SK1b is scarce on N8's, undoubtedly because they were painted in their variant of CK when built in 1948, and didn't need repainting before the end of the 1950's.

At the end of the decade, N5,  N5C, and N8 cabins accumulated sizeable numbers of SK2b lettering jobs (prime visible difference being the 7" gothic numbers).  SK2b was the ninth PRR standard lettering style for revenue freight cars.  I'd like to find the arrangement drawings for cabins covering this period.

PK became standard for all the steel cabins in December 1961.  PK was the tenth and last lettering scheme for freight cars.  It's interesting that the N8 calls for the 33" plain keystone, whereas the tracing for N5, N5A, B, C, D, E, F classes call for the 28" plain keystone.


Rick Tipton
Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana.
Email RickTipton@aol.com
Phone or fax 502-228-4997 (8am to 8pm please)
Wolf Penn Station
5108 Wolf Pen Woods Drive
Prospect, KY 40059-9197 --part1_12e.111950c8.2a0bb963_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 06:55:25 -0400 From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] NG Tower photo, add'l data On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 06:04:53PM -0700, robert netzlof wrote: > I continue to think that the distant grade looks quite > new. How long would it take for steam locomotives to > spew enough cinders to blacken the whole area along > the tracks? Whatever your answer, I think the picture > must have been taken within that many years after > 1912. Remember that the exetension of the WM to Connellsville was at the impetus of Gould - for a connection with the P&LE, thence P&WV, W&LE, etc. It was the last part of WM "main line" that was built. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:11:39 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] More on cabin lettering application Rick sez: PK was the tenth and last lettering scheme for freight cars. It's interesting that the N8 calls for the 33" plain keystone, whereas the tracing for N5, N5A, B, C, D, E, F classes call for the 28" plain keystone. Rick et al... Since I typically model a much earlier era, I wonder...is there a source of the plain keystone (PK) decals in HO? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: Bob Strong's Towers was RE: [PRR] Lane Tower Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 09:37:00 -0400 Listers, Speaking of Bob Strong and his beautiful towers: Where does he get all the plans for these towers? I would love to build a model of the Huntington elevated crossing tower. He had one at a convention a couple years ago. Someone told me he uses photos not plans. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Bill Lane [mailto:billlane@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 7:02 AM To: PRR Talk; PRR Modeling; PRR Fax Subject: [PRR] Lane Tower Hi All, Does anyone have any photos of Lane Tower? Is it still standing? I am trying to get info for Bob Strong to build one for me. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:51:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Bob Strong's Towers was RE: [PRR] Lane Tower From: Jerry Britton On 5/9/02 9:37 AM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > Speaking of Bob Strong and his beautiful towers: Where does he get all the > plans for these towers? I would love to build a model of the Huntington > elevated crossing tower. He had one at a convention a couple years ago. > Someone told me he uses photos not plans. > Bob lives about 15 minutes from me and I have spoken with him numerous times between conventions. He does use photos and plans... and a pretty good job of it!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 09:52:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Contact List, Will Mr. Hazlett please email me off list. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR MOW Equipment Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:08:28 -0400 Al, First, thanks for the wonderful meeting. I like the idea of the shorter talks and you really kept the meeting moving along. Also, have you considered making the diagrams you made up to build the ballast cleaner available? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: Bob Strong's Towers was RE: [PRR] Lane Tower Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 12:33:25 -0400 Hi Guys, I've had Bob build several towers for me over the past couple of years. Atlantic Tower (Atlantic City-PRSL), Winslow Tower (Winslow Junction-PRSL) Tuckahoe Tower (Tuckahoe Junct.-PRSL) and Shore Tower (Frankford Junct.-PRR). He works mainly from photos, but in my case I prepared scale sketches of these towers to compliment what photo's I had. It was easier for me to count bricks and courses of siding to provide dimensions than it would have been for him to do it. If you have any photo's, or know the basic size, or if the real thing still exists, make some sketches with basic dimensions to help him out. He has an excellent sense of construction technique, and is an outstanding craftsman. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Chany, Christopher [mailto:cpc1@westchestergov.com] Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:37 AM To: PRR Talk Subject: Bob Strong's Towers was RE: [PRR] Lane Tower Listers, Speaking of Bob Strong and his beautiful towers: Where does he get all the plans for these towers? I would love to build a model of the Huntington elevated crossing tower. He had one at a convention a couple years ago. Someone told me he uses photos not plans. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Bill Lane [mailto:billlane@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 7:02 AM To: PRR Talk; PRR Modeling; PRR Fax Subject: [PRR] Lane Tower Hi All, Does anyone have any photos of Lane Tower? Is it still standing? I am trying to get info for Bob Strong to build one for me. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Aldrjim@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:20:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR water supply, Indian Creek --part1_5f.27298261.2a0c33f5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The April 11, 1908, issue of The Engineering Record and the April 9, 1908,=20 issue of Engineering News contain lengthy articles about the Indian Creek=20 Water Supply System built for the Pennsylvania Railroad. =C2=A0 Water shorta= ges=20 were a serious problem for the PRR in Southwestern Pennsylvania due to the=20 contamination of many of the streams. =20 In 1902, the American Pipe Manufacturing Company was selected to do a study=20 concerning water conditions along the Pittsburgh, Southwestern and=20 Monongahela divisions. =C2=A0In 1903, this same company was selected to cons= truct=20 a water system. =C2=A0 Indian Creek was chosen as the most suitable source=20= as it=20 was uncontaminated. =C2=A0 =20 An extensive system of reservoirs and pipelines was constructed. =C2=A0 From= a=20 reservoir along Indian Creek, pipelines delivered water along the Southwest=20 Branch to Radebaugh, along the mainline to Pitcairn, across the Monongahela=20 River to the Monongahela Division, south along the Monongahela Division to=20 Redstone Junction and then to Gibson Junction where a connection was again=20 made with the pipeline from Indian Creek =E2=80=93 a complete circuit. =20 Jim Aldridge --part1_5f.27298261.2a0c33f5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The April 11, 1908, issue= of The Engineering Record and the April 9, 1908, issue of Enginee= ring News contain lengthy articles about the Indian Creek Water Supply S= ystem built for the Pennsylvania Railroad. =C2=A0 Water shortages were a ser= ious problem for the PRR in Southwestern Pennsylvania due to the contaminati= on of many of the streams.
=20
In 1902, the American Pipe Manufacturing Company was selected to do a st= udy concerning water conditions along the Pittsburgh, Southwestern and Monon= gahela divisions. =C2=A0In 1903, this same company was selected to construct= a water system. =C2=A0  Indian Creek was chosen as the most suitable s= ource as it was uncontaminated. =C2=A0
=20
An extensive system of reservoirs and pipelines was constructed. =C2=A0=20= >From a reservoir along Indian Creek, pipelines delivered water along the Sou= thwest Branch to Radebaugh, along the mainline to Pitcairn, across the Monon= gahela River to the Monongahela Division, south along the Monongahela Divisi= on to Redstone Junction and then to Gibson Junction where a connection was a= gain made with the pipeline from Indian Creek =E2=80=93 a complete circuit.
=20
Jim Aldridge
--part1_5f.27298261.2a0c33f5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] E8's on Delaware Avenue List, I just got back from chasing those PRR E8s. Mostly cloudy, but the chase was on anyway. Looking at PRR 120, I always wondered how PC personel got RFK's casket into the car. I talked to Bennett Levin and he told me that the window on the left side of the car was removed at Penn Station so the casket could enter the rear of the car. I never knew that. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Lane Tower Bill: I remember seeing a photo of LANE tower in an old issue of PC Railroader. Don't know if it's still standing. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] E8's on Delaware Avenue Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:39:26 -0400 Dave- Good seeing you on Del. Ave today. The EP-22's looked beautiful as usual. A 70 yr old man gasping in amazement turned around when the horns blew crossing Washington Avenue. I asked him what he thought. He replied that he hasn't seen SOMETHIN LIKE THAT since the 50's- it brought back memories for him to see the locomotives. The smile on that gentleman's face and the look in his eyes made my day. Thank you to the Levin's for sharing their restored railroad icons. Greg Vlassopoulos ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] E8's on Delaware Avenue > > List, > > I just got back from chasing those PRR E8s. Mostly cloudy, but > the chase was on anyway. > > Looking at PRR 120, I always wondered how PC personel got RFK's > casket into the car. > I talked to Bennett Levin and he told me that the window on the left > side of the car was removed at Penn Station so the casket could enter > the rear of the car. I never knew that. > > Dave Hopson > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:56:51 -0400 Great work,Duane. I thought that picture looked really familiar. Jim Lash ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane C. Miller" To: "S J Lash" ; "Jerry Britton" ; "Bruce Smith" ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower > The photograph also appears on page 139 of the book Sand Patch by Charles S. > Roberts. It is of Indian Creek on the B&O west of Ohiopyle. The tower call > letters is actually NC instead of NG. > > Duane Miller > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "S J Lash" > To: "Jerry Britton" ; "Bruce Smith" > ; "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 5:34 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower > > > > Guys, This photo looks familiar to me,also. RICH ORR could this be a > photo > > on the B&O, that is at the museum? Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerry Britton" > > To: "Bruce Smith" ; "PRR-Talk" > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 5:03 PM > > Subject: Re: [PRR] NG tower > > > > > > > On 5/7/02 3:55 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. at > > (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Here's an interesting photo and a question... > > > > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/NG.jpeg > > > > Is this a location on the PRR? It sure looks that way to me, and NG > > tower > > > > strikes a bell...but I'm not sure. > > > > > > > > FWIW, the print is owned by a friend of a guy on another list. No > date > > was > > > > given, but if this is PRR it strikes me as early 20s? > > > > > > > That really looks PRR... And the name rings a bell... Could be from > around > > > 1900, just before the tracks were expanded to four tracks. > > > > > > I would have initially guessed South Fork, where the flood occurred, but > > > that's SO. I just quickly leafed through Triumph I and could not find > any > > > references to NG. > > > > > > HOWEVER, if you look carefully at the opposite riverbank in the > distance, > > > there appears to be a level right-of-way there as well. That may well > > > indicate it's in the area where the mains are split to both sides of the > > > river. > > > > > > Very possible the flood washed it out and it was never replaced. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > > > > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > > > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > > > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > > > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > > > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > > > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > > > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > > > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 07:01:30 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Lane Tower Hi All, Does anyone have any photos of Lane Tower? Is it still standing? I am trying to get info for Bob Strong to build one for me. Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:15:00 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Allegheny Portage Railroad From: "Tom Gibson / Progressive Engineer" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3103823700_2416760_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Progressive Engineer, the online magazine covering the mid-Atlantic and northeast regions of the U.S., has posted a story in our On the Road column that might be of interest. It concerns the Allegheny Portage Railroad in western Pennsylvania. Built in the 1830s, the 36-mile railroad once ferried canal boats over the Allegheny Mountains to link their journey on two sections of canal stretching from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh, opening trade routes from the East Coast to the Midwest. It competed unsuccessfully with the Pennsylvania Railroad, which eventually bought the portage railroad and shut it down. It now serves as a national park site open to visitors. You can see this at http://www.ProgressiveEngineer.com/frm_care.htm. Thank you. Tom Gibson Publisher --MS_Mac_OE_3103823700_2416760_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Allegheny Portage Railroad Progressive Engineer, the online magazine covering the mid-Atlantic and nor= theast regions of the U.S., has posted a story in our On the Road column tha= t might be of interest.  It concerns the Allegheny Portage Railroad in = western Pennsylvania.  Built in the 1830s, the 36-mile railroad once fe= rried canal boats over the Allegheny Mountains to link their journey on two = sections of canal stretching from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh, opening trade = routes from the East Coast to the Midwest.  It competed unsuccessfully = with the Pennsylvania Railroad, which eventually bought the portage railroad= and shut it down.  It now serves as a national park site open to visit= ors.

You can see this at http://www.ProgressiveEngineer= .com/frm_care.htm.  Thank you.

Tom Gibson
Publisher --MS_Mac_OE_3103823700_2416760_MIME_Part-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "mark taylor" Subject: [PRR] MAINLINE MODELER ARTICLE Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 21:22:58 -0400 Can anyone tell me if Greg Martin's article on detailing the Athearn Genesis F-7 has been published and if so what month would it have been in. THANKS MARK ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:50:15 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR water supply, Indian Creek --- Aldrjim@aol.com wrote: > The April 11, 1908, issue of The Engineering Record > and the April 9, 1908, > issue of Engineering News contain lengthy articles > about the Indian Creek > Water Supply System built for the Pennsylvania > Railroad. Well I'll be. Apparently the paper I more-or-less quoted had it right. > Water shortages > were a serious problem for the PRR in Southwestern > Pennsylvania due to the > contamination of many of the streams. Understood. I grew up in that area. Thought orange was the natural color of streams until I was 12. > In 1902, the American Pipe Manufacturing Company was > selected to do a study > concerning water conditions along the Pittsburgh, > Southwestern and > Monongahela divisions. In 1903, this same company > was selected to construct > a water system. Indian Creek was chosen as the > most suitable source as it > was uncontaminated.  I wonder, was this before or after the waterworks along the Pittsburgh Division, such as the reservoir at Hillside and (I think) Tubmill Run? > An extensive system of reservoirs and pipelines was > constructed.   From a > reservoir along Indian Creek,... 1903 was during the period in which PRR owned 40% or so of B&O, so I suppose arranging to use the B&O right of way for the pipes to Connellsville was easy. (And if the pipes didn't go that way, how did they get over the Chestnut Ridge?) > ...pipelines delivered > water along the Southwest > Branch to Radebaugh, along the mainline to Pitcairn, > across the Monongahela > River to the Monongahela Division, south along the > Monongahela Division to > Redstone Junction and then to Gibson Junction where > a connection was again > made with the pipeline from Indian Creek – a > complete circuit. I had known about the water mains east of Greensburg, and assumed they continued into Pittsburgh. Hadn't known about this system. Thanks. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:15:41 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] More on cabin lettering application In a message dated 5/9/02 9:11:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: > Rick sez: > > PK was the tenth and last lettering scheme for freight cars. It's > interesting that the N8 calls for the 33" plain keystone, whereas the > tracing for N5, N5A, B, C, D, E, F classes call for the 28" plain keystone. > > Rick et al... > > Since I typically model a much earlier era, I wonder...is there a source of > the plain keystone (PK) decals in HO? > > Happy Rails > Bruce > Bruce, Decalbashing is required. This'll gross you out... I take SK keystone decals and cut off the shadows -- voila, a Plain Keystone. In truth, I've found it takes a little adapting to do many PK schemes. Used to get a lot of PRR 10" gothic numbers from various Herald King sets (not necessarily PRR). Rick Tipton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:15:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] More on cabin lettering application --part1_195.6b2e0f6.2a0c955d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/9/02 9:11:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: > Rick sez: > > PK was the tenth and last lettering scheme for freight cars. It's > interesting that the N8 calls for the 33" plain keystone, whereas the > tracing for N5, N5A, B, C, D, E, F classes call for the 28" plain keystone. > > Rick et al... > > Since I typically model a much earlier era, I wonder...is there a source of > the plain keystone (PK) decals in HO? > > Happy Rails > Bruce > Bruce, Decalbashing is required. This'll gross you out... I take SK keystone decals and cut off the shadows -- voila, a Plain Keystone. In truth, I've found it takes a little adapting to do many PK schemes. Used to get a lot of PRR 10" gothic numbers from various Herald King sets (not necessarily PRR). Rick Tipton --part1_195.6b2e0f6.2a0c955d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/9/02 9:11:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes:


Rick sez:

PK was the tenth and last lettering scheme for freight cars.  It's
interesting that the N8 calls for the 33" plain keystone, whereas the
tracing for N5, N5A, B, C, D, E, F classes call for the 28" plain keystone.

Rick et al...

Since I typically model a much earlier era, I wonder...is there a source of
the plain keystone (PK) decals in HO?

Happy Rails
Bruce


Bruce,

Decalbashing is required.  This'll gross you out...

I take SK keystone decals and cut off the shadows  --  voila, a Plain Keystone.

In truth, I've found it takes a little adapting to do many PK schemes.  Used to get a lot of PRR 10" gothic numbers from various Herald King sets (not necessarily PRR).

Rick Tipton
 --part1_195.6b2e0f6.2a0c955d_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AHARTPRR137@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:33:02 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Lane Tower Hi Bill and others, There is a photo of LANE tower on page 28 of the Morning Sun book PRR: Hudson to Horseshoe by William D. Volkmer. The photo was taken in September 1967. Best regards, Andy Hart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SHanlon@dnr.state.md.us Subject: RE: [PRR] Allegheny Portage Railroad Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:44:07 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F817.FDF2AB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" there is a false statement made here. the Portage did not compete against the PRR nor did the PRR buy the line and shut it down. i love how historical fact is twisted by those who are not historians of such things. this would be like saying the the PRR bought the NYC who tried unsuccessfully to compete with the PRR...wait, that might be true :) -steve -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gibson / Progressive Engineer [mailto:progress@jdweb.com] Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:15 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Allegheny Portage Railroad Progressive Engineer, the online magazine covering the mid-Atlantic and northeast regions of the U.S., has posted a story in our On the Road column that might be of interest. It concerns the Allegheny Portage Railroad in western Pennsylvania. Built in the 1830s, the 36-mile railroad once ferried canal boats over the Allegheny Mountains to link their journey on two sections of canal stretching from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh, opening trade routes from the East Coast to the Midwest. It competed unsuccessfully with the Pennsylvania Railroad, which eventually bought the portage railroad and shut it down. It now serves as a national park site open to visitors. You can see this at http://www.ProgressiveEngineer.com/frm_care.htm. Thank you. Tom Gibson Publisher ########################################### This message has been scanned for viruses. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F817.FDF2AB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Allegheny Portage Railroad
there is a false statement made here.  the Portage did not compete against the PRR nor did the PRR buy the line and shut it down.  i love how historical fact is twisted by those who are not historians of such things.
 
this would be like saying the the PRR bought the NYC who tried unsuccessfully to compete with the PRR...wait, that might be true :)
 
-steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Gibson / Progressive Engineer [mailto:progress@jdweb.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:15 PM
To: prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Allegheny Portage Railroad

Progressive Engineer, the online magazine covering the mid-Atlantic and northeast regions of the U.S., has posted a story in our On the Road column that might be of interest.  It concerns the Allegheny Portage Railroad in western Pennsylvania.  Built in the 1830s, the 36-mile railroad once ferried canal boats over the Allegheny Mountains to link their journey on two sections of canal stretching from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh, opening trade routes from the East Coast to the Midwest.  It competed unsuccessfully with the Pennsylvania Railroad, which eventually bought the portage railroad and shut it down.  It now serves as a national park site open to visitors.

You can see this at http://www.ProgressiveEngineer.com/frm_care.htm.  Thank you.

Tom Gibson
Publisher

###########################################

This message has been scanned for viruses.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F817.FDF2AB40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Basement humidity question Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:42:05 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F7F6.2E4565C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PRR-Listers: My PRR HO scale layout is in my basement. My basement is does have a sump= pump that is mostly used when it rains. I have a very cheap hygrometer (= coiled metal strip type) and it usually is in the 50 - 70 percent range.= =20 What is the range of humidity that is acceptable for a basement? What is = the best way to measure humidity in a basement? Lastly, what is the best = way(s) to reduce humidity in a basement? TIA Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F7F6.2E4565C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
PRR-Listers:
 
My PRR HO scale layout is in my basement. My = basement is does have a sump pump that is mostly used when it rains. I ha= ve a very cheap hygrometer ( coiled metal strip type) and it usually= is in the 50 - 70 percent range.
 
What is t= he range of humidity that is acceptable for a basement? What is the = best way to measure humidity in a basement? Lastly, what is the best way(= s) to reduce humidity in a basement?
 
TIA
 
 
Ted Andrews

------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1F7F6.2E4565C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:50:58 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] P5A paint schemes Morning y'all, A few years back I somewhat naively classified P5A paint schemes into just three groups. In the interveneing time I began to get suspicious that there was more there I originally suspected! In reviewing the new PRRT&HS P5 book ("The Pennsy's P5 Electrics", Westing, Bezilla & Keyser), the following questions have surfaced... 1) When was the last P5A converted to freight only status by removing the steam heat boiler? 2) When did the lettering on boxcabs and modifieds transition from gold to buff? There are photos of a freshly painted #4710 (box), May 26, 1939 and #4744 (mod), Feb 1940 that look like the lettering might be buff. #4710 appears to have had its steam heat boiler removed, but the oil fill caps remain on the #1 end. #4744 is the earliest example of the "plain" scheme I have ever seen on a modified. Did the lettering transition to buff with the conversion to freight only status of a motor? 3) When did the lettering transition from condensed to spread out? The photo of #4710 has closely spaced lettering. The photo of #4744 has spread out (Futura) lettering. A photo of #4725 (boxcab) from 1946 shows spread out lettering (and oil fill caps with no steam heat boiler). 4) Interestingly, the #4710, 4744 photos may mark the transition to PRR keystones on the loco sides as #4710 has a number and #4744 has "PRR" in the keystone. BTW, for those who did no know it, the P5 book is available from the PRRT&HS RIGHT NOW! (http://store.prrths.com) The funds from this book will be used to finance the MOW book, so if this book doesn't sell...In addition, purchase directly from the PRRT&HS means that more money comes back to the society...So get you copy today! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Chartiers Branch info desired Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:55:12 -0400 Jim, List, etc... You may be very interested in the Fantrip Notice I just posted on the "OS/Sightings" page of my website for 5/10/02. It can be found at: www.forcomm.net/flagstop Enjoy! Terry Stuart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:08:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] P5A paint schemes On Fri, 10 May 2002, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > BTW, for those who did no know it, the P5 book is available from the > PRRT&HS RIGHT NOW! (http://store.prrths.com) The funds from this book will > be used to finance the MOW book, so if this book doesn't sell...In > addition, purchase directly from the PRRT&HS means that more money comes > back to the society...So get you copy today! Until (I believe it was Labor Day) you can *only* get it from the society; I got it in Camp Hill, and I highly recommend it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] ER Sharks, List, What is the best Kadee for the front and rear of the ER Sharks? Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:50:27 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] concrete ties Hello again, More convention fall-out ...Someone mentioned concrete ties on the PRR in the 20's. Fellow C&PD fan Jim Cassatt passed me an article from the May 26, 1928 issue of Railway Age, pp1193-1196 on the 1926/1927 realignment of the C&PD due to construction of the Conowingo dam. Aside from some neat data on the construction, including the three tunnels on that line, the article said that there were "three half-mile test sections of reinforced concrete ties...". Does anyone have an idea how long these ties remained in place? Any photos of concrete ties on the PRR circa 1927? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Philly fan trip Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:55:17 +0000 Go to www.trainorders.com. Look on the left side of the screen. Click on Eastern RR Discussion. Scroll down to PRR fest in Philly or words to that effect. That link will take you to a series of photos of Thursday's excursion with the PRR E8 locomotives. There are some nice pictures posted there. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] ER Sharks, Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:57:10 -0400 Gary I used I think it is # 28 Shortest shank with the offset up. Sam Vastano >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] ER Sharks, >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:37:31 -0400 (EDT) > >List, > > What is the best Kadee for the front and rear of the ER Sharks? >Thanks, Gary > > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art >Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > >PRR Loco Pics: >http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > >& > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html >and...... > >PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Sam Vastano McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. PH 724-368-8040 X243 Fax 724-368-9677 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Philly fan trip Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:03:05 +0000 If you go the eastern news section of the website I previously posted and go to a thread entitled, "Legislators Express" one of the pictures is of Bennit Levin on the rear platform of #120 looking down the side of the car. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Basement humidity question Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:02:39 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C1F812.3322C120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable get a dehumidifier. they work well. when the basin fills up with = water, it will automatically turn off. your track will never warp. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ted Andrews=20 To: PRR Talk=20 Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 8:42 AM Subject: [PRR] Basement humidity question PRR-Listers: My PRR HO scale layout is in my basement. My basement is does have a = sump pump that is mostly used when it rains. I have a very cheap = hygrometer ( coiled metal strip type) and it usually is in the 50 - 70 = percent range.=20 What is the range of humidity that is acceptable for a basement? What = is the best way to measure humidity in a basement? Lastly, what is the = best way(s) to reduce humidity in a basement? TIA Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C1F812.3322C120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
get a dehumidifier.  they work=20 well.  when the basin fills up with water, it will automatically = turn=20 off.  your track will never warp.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ted = Andrews=20
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 8:42 = AM
Subject: [PRR] Basement = humidity=20 question

PRR-Listers:
 
My PRR HO scale layout is in my basement. My basement is does = have a sump=20 pump that is mostly used when it rains. I have a very cheap hygrometer = ( coiled metal strip type) and it usually is in the 50 - 70 = percent=20 range.
 
What is the range of humidity that is acceptable for a = basement?=20 What is the best way to measure humidity in a basement? Lastly, what = is the=20 best way(s) to reduce humidity in a basement?
 
TIA
 
 
Ted Andrews

------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C1F812.3322C120-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:30:21 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] ER Sharks, I doubt it. The # x8 couplers (28,38,58) are all standard length, standard height. That's why there is no #48. I would be the same as the good ole #5. Its also why the new scale size couple is a #58. I have to believe that it is the precursor to an entire 50s series with scale heads and all the usual offset heights and various shank lengths. (I hope!) I don't doubt that the right coupler has the Shortest shank with the offset up, but it would not be an x8. Also I would recommend something in the 40 series if at all possible. These couplers are metal, the 20 and 30s are plastic. As I recall the mounting is very difficult. It requires removing some material from the truck frame to assure proper clearances. I have about six of these engines (or the older Model Power variants) myself. Baldwins are the only thing for hauling coal ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Sam Vastano wrote: > Gary I used I think it is # 28 Shortest shank with the offset up. > > Sam Vastano > > >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) > >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > >Subject: [PRR] ER Sharks, > >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:37:31 -0400 (EDT) > > > >List, > > > > What is the best Kadee for the front and rear of the ER Sharks? > >Thanks, Gary > > > > > > > > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > >Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > > >PRR Loco Pics: > >http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > > >& > > > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > >and...... > > > >PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > Sam Vastano > McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. > PH 724-368-8040 X243 > Fax 724-368-9677 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:21:26 -0400 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: RE: [PRR] Allegheny Portage Railroad --On Friday, May 10, 2002 7:44 -0400 SHanlon@dnr.state.md.us wrote: > i love > how historical fact is twisted by those who are not historians of such > things. Ah, history. The stuff of myth and legends if not carefully watched, preserved, and protected. Vagel Keller Dept of History, CMU ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] ER Sharks, Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:38:59 -0400 I was just taking a stab at it from memory. But short shank and offset up is a definite. Sam >From: "Andrew S. Miller" >To: Sam Vastano >CC: mittner@webtv.net, PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] ER Sharks, >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:30:21 -0400 > >I doubt it. The # x8 couplers (28,38,58) are all standard length, standard >height. That's why there is no #48. I would be the same as the good ole >#5. >Its also why the new scale size couple is a #58. I have to believe that it >is >the precursor to an entire 50s series with scale heads and all the usual >offset >heights and various shank lengths. (I hope!) > >I don't doubt that the right coupler has the Shortest shank with the offset >up, >but it would not be an x8. Also I would recommend something in the 40 >series >if at all possible. These couplers are metal, the 20 and 30s are plastic. > >As I recall the mounting is very difficult. It requires removing some >material >from the truck frame to assure proper clearances. I have about six of >these >engines (or the older Model Power variants) myself. Baldwins are the only >thing for hauling coal ;-) > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org > >================================================== >Sam Vastano wrote: > > > Gary I used I think it is # 28 Shortest shank with the offset up. > > > > Sam Vastano > > > > >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) > > >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > > >Subject: [PRR] ER Sharks, > > >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:37:31 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > >List, > > > > > > What is the best Kadee for the front and rear of the ER Sharks? > > >Thanks, Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > > >Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > > > > >PRR Loco Pics: > > >http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > > > > >& > > > > > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > >and...... > > > > > >PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > > > > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > Sam Vastano > > McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. > > PH 724-368-8040 X243 > > Fax 724-368-9677 > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Sam Vastano McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. PH 724-368-8040 X243 Fax 724-368-9677 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:44:55 -0400 From: Rail Classics Subject: [PRR] New Model Announcement from Rail Classics, the X-30 Box Car Hello All: We are announcing the X-30 75' Box Car for PRR and PC in "HO" Scale Brass. See our Web Site for more info. www.railclassics.com As only one was built, as was the F-40 Flat Car, this will be a very limited production project. We are in need of photos of this monster car, also needed is information when this car was dropped from Penn Central. Please contact us. Thank you for your support with our projects, EDDY at RAIL CLASSICS www.railclassics.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:42:20 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Cabin quandaries In a message dated 5/10/02 10:36:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > PS: Rick,thanks for the cabin car info. you guys really know your > stuff. That was exactly what I was looking for. A 2.4 to 1 ratio is > close enough for me. Is that Buckeye Div, or all "Lines West" > Actually, I wish we "did know our stuff". We had some additional discussions at PRRT&HS. Best estimate I heard there was that Lines West got its N6A and N6B fleet up to perhaps 1600 cars before an unknown number of them started moving east (still with the Lines West 980xxx-982xxx numbers) as an unknown number of the Lines East's steel cars came west to take over the top assignments. We're certainly guessing when we say that Lines East's woodsheathed classes (both 8-wheel and bobber) disappeared in large numbers during the Depression. But we're not guessing that the traffic boom around WW2 drove construction of the N5c, and the N8, and also conversion of the NX23. Bottom line, over the whole system in the post-WW2 era, I'd expect to see a ratio of 1.6 or less between woodsheathed and steel cabins. And I still believe this declined rapidly in the 1960's. I also believe the truly informed article on these matters has yet to be written, and will be based on research done in the future at multiple archives. At PRRT&HS, I was given the strong impression that the handful of folks likely to do such research all agree with me that we still don't have enough of the information necessary for a scholarly article in this area. OTOH, we can hope for progress in the future. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:42:20 EDT Subject: [PRR] Cabin quandaries --part1_1a6.20ccc60.2a0d7c9c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/10/02 10:36:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > PS: Rick,thanks for the cabin car info. you guys really know your > stuff. That was exactly what I was looking for. A 2.4 to 1 ratio is > close enough for me. Is that Buckeye Div, or all "Lines West" > Actually, I wish we "did know our stuff". We had some additional discussions at PRRT&HS. Best estimate I heard there was that Lines West got its N6A and N6B fleet up to perhaps 1600 cars before an unknown number of them started moving east (still with the Lines West 980xxx-982xxx numbers) as an unknown number of the Lines East's steel cars came west to take over the top assignments. We're certainly guessing when we say that Lines East's woodsheathed classes (both 8-wheel and bobber) disappeared in large numbers during the Depression. But we're not guessing that the traffic boom around WW2 drove construction of the N5c, and the N8, and also conversion of the NX23. Bottom line, over the whole system in the post-WW2 era, I'd expect to see a ratio of 1.6 or less between woodsheathed and steel cabins. And I still believe this declined rapidly in the 1960's. I also believe the truly informed article on these matters has yet to be written, and will be based on research done in the future at multiple archives. At PRRT&HS, I was given the strong impression that the handful of folks likely to do such research all agree with me that we still don't have enough of the information necessary for a scholarly article in this area. OTOH, we can hope for progress in the future. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1a6.20ccc60.2a0d7c9c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/10/02 10:36:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


PS: Rick,thanks for the cabin car info. you guys really know your
stuff. That was exactly what I was looking for. A 2.4 to 1 ratio is
close enough for me. Is that Buckeye Div, or all "Lines West"


Actually, I wish we "did know our stuff".  We had some additional discussions at PRRT&HS.  Best estimate I heard there was that Lines West got its N6A and N6B fleet up to perhaps 1600 cars before an unknown number of them started moving east (still with the Lines West 980xxx-982xxx numbers) as an unknown number of the Lines East's steel cars came west to take over the top assignments.

We're certainly guessing when we say that Lines East's woodsheathed classes (both 8-wheel and bobber) disappeared in large numbers during the Depression.  But we're not guessing that the traffic boom around WW2 drove construction of the N5c, and the N8, and also conversion of the NX23.

Bottom line, over the whole system in the post-WW2 era, I'd expect to see a ratio of 1.6 or less between woodsheathed and steel cabins.  And I still believe this declined rapidly in the 1960's.

I also believe the truly informed article on these matters has yet to be written, and will be based on research done in the future at multiple archives.  At PRRT&HS, I was given the strong impression that the handful of folks likely to do such research all agree with me that we still don't have enough of the information necessary for a scholarly article in this area.  OTOH, we can hope for progress in the future.


 Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1a6.20ccc60.2a0d7c9c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:40:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Basement humidity question From: Bill > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3103893638_4142339_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 05/10/02 8:42 AM, Ted Andrews at Ted_Andrews@msn.com wrote: PRR-Listers: My PRR HO scale layout is in my basement. My basement is does have a sump pump that is mostly used when it rains. I have a very cheap hygrometer ( coiled metal strip type) and it usually is in the 50 - 70 percent range. What is the range of humidity that is acceptable for a basement? What is the best way to measure humidity in a basement? Lastly, what is the best way(s) to reduce humidity in a basement? TIA Ted Andrews Ted, Greg's suggestion of a dehumidifier is the way to go. My layout is also in the basement here in the Philadelphia area and the dehumidifier runs according to it's humidistat. I also have it set so that it constantly drains into the French drain in the basement so that there's never a water build-up. IIRC, most dehumidifiers run at between 25~33% humidity which should prevent most moisture problems. Bill Morlitz --MS_Mac_OE_3103893638_4142339_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] Basement humidity question on 05/10/02 8:42 AM, Ted Andrews at Ted_Andrews@msn.com wrote:

PRR-Listers:



My PRR HO scale layout is in my basement. My basement is does have a sump p= ump that is mostly used when it rains. I have a very cheap hygrometer ( coil= ed metal strip type) and it usually is in the 50 - 70 percent range.



What is the range of humidity that is acceptable for a basement? What is th= e best way to measure humidity in a basement? Lastly, what is the best way(s= ) to reduce humidity in a basement?



TIA





Ted Andrews

Ted,

Greg's suggestion of a dehumidifier is the way to go.  My layout is al= so in the basement here in the Philadelphia area and the dehumidifier runs a= ccording to it's humidistat.  I also have it set so that it constantly = drains into the French drain in the basement so that there's never a water b= uild-up.  IIRC, most dehumidifiers run at between 25~33% humidity which= should prevent most moisture problems.

Bill Morlitz



--MS_Mac_OE_3103893638_4142339_MIME_Part-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Basement humidity question Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 21:22:42 +0000 The whole question of homasote, layouts and humidity needs a tremendous amount of research. There was a thread on AOL a couple of years ago about it. Only a very small percentage of layouts have ever had problems. The bulk of people do not seal the homasote or roadbed in any manner and do not experience any problems. I have built two layouts in basements in Philadelphia, one in the Dayton, Ohio area, one in Detroit and now two in Chicago. None have ever had an expansion or contraction problem with no conditioning of any basement or the homasote and wood. I will err on the side of caution in the future but at this point I think there is more to this issue than just humidity. There is something else that contributes that has not been documented yet. > on 05/10/02 8:42 AM, Ted Andrews at Ted_Andrews@msn.com wrote: > > PRR-Listers: > > > > My PRR HO scale layout is in my basement. My basement is does have a sump > pump that is mostly used when it rains. I have a very cheap hygrometer ( > coiled metal strip type) and it usually is in the 50 - 70 percent range. > > > > What is the range of humidity that is acceptable for a basement? What is the > best way to measure humidity in a basement? Lastly, what is the best way(s) > to reduce humidity in a basement? > > > > TIA > > > > > > Ted Andrews > > Ted, > > Greg's suggestion of a dehumidifier is the way to go. My layout is also in > the basement here in the Philadelphia area and the dehumidifier runs > according to it's humidistat. I also have it set so that it constantly > drains into the French drain in the basement so that there's never a water > build-up. IIRC, most dehumidifiers run at between 25~33% humidity which > should prevent most moisture problems. > > Bill Morlitz > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Basement humidity question Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 18:06:03 -0400 Humidity example: I belong to a club that has a 20 x 70 foot layout in the basement of an old building (owned once by the Reeve's family, owner of Phoenix Bridge and Steel in Phoenixville dating to the 1800's). This is also locate outside Philadelphia, an area of the country notorios to humidity. The house is heated via baseboard radiator heat. The boiler, with the rr club luck, is in the basement with our layout. We have seen large fluctuations in humidity and usually see changes in the winter when the furnace starts kickin'. Interestingly, track that was hand laid AND pre-fab shinohara have shifted. We cant run a humidifier due to electricity cost. Fluctuations are not drastic, just out of gauge and kinking. We look at it as track maintenence. Prototypes also have this problem. In an operating session-send out the 250ton brownhoist! Your situation does not sound that bad. A humidifier with a direct line to drain out into the house drain would be perfect as Bill does. Set the desired humidity level and you will never have to worry about changing the water collecting bin. Good luck Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" ; "Bill" Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Basement humidity question > The whole question of homasote, layouts and humidity > needs a tremendous amount of research. There was a > thread on AOL a couple of years ago about it. Only a > very small percentage of layouts have ever had > problems. The bulk of people do not seal the homasote > or roadbed in any manner and do not experience any > problems. I have built two layouts in basements in > Philadelphia, one in the Dayton, Ohio area, one in > Detroit and now two in Chicago. None have ever had an > expansion or contraction problem with no conditioning of > any basement or the homasote and wood. I will err on > the side of caution in the future but at this point I > think there is more to this issue than just humidity. > There is something else that contributes that has not > been documented yet. > > on 05/10/02 8:42 AM, Ted Andrews at Ted_Andrews@msn.com wrote: > > > > PRR-Listers: > > > > > > > > My PRR HO scale layout is in my basement. My basement is does have a sump > > pump that is mostly used when it rains. I have a very cheap hygrometer ( > > coiled metal strip type) and it usually is in the 50 - 70 percent range. > > > > > > > > What is the range of humidity that is acceptable for a basement? What is the > > best way to measure humidity in a basement? Lastly, what is the best way(s) > > to reduce humidity in a basement? > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > > > Ted Andrews > > > > Ted, > > > > Greg's suggestion of a dehumidifier is the way to go. My layout is also in > > the basement here in the Philadelphia area and the dehumidifier runs > > according to it's humidistat. I also have it set so that it constantly > > drains into the French drain in the basement so that there's never a water > > build-up. IIRC, most dehumidifiers run at between 25~33% humidity which > > should prevent most moisture problems. > > > > Bill Morlitz > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 18:29:45 -0400 From: davep Subject: [Fwd: Re: [PRR] Basement humidity question] I am one of the operating (and sometimes: maintenance) gang on a Good Sized Layout. (you may have seen it in the national mags: it will remain nameless.) Its all on unsealed homasote. Rail gaps come and go. But. Only when humidity changes. High, once settled in is ok. low, once settled in is ok. Changing, with water vapor going in and out is iffy. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 07:17:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Basement humidity question From: Bill Both Jim Barrett, who writes OGR (O Gauge Railroading) magazine's Backshop series, and I agree that in the humid summer-time areas, it's best to seal the Homasote. Jim had written a series on benchwork and had forgotten to include sealing the Homasote. Here's his reply to me: "Bill, you are absolutely right! I forgot to mention that. Homasote absolutely DRINKS all moisture. It also drinks paint, too! I'll add your comments in the letters section." My friend who works part-time at a local train shop and does layouts professionally also recommended sealing the Homasote. When I did my benchwork 18 months ago, I sealed both sides and all cut edges of the Homasote with Finneran and Haley's Bathroom/Kitchen paint which is formulated to withstand moisture. It took me a little extra time and money but feel it was worth the effort. Bill >on 05/10/02 5:22 PM, ndbprr@att.net at ndbprr@att.net wrote: > The whole question of homasote, layouts and humidity > needs a tremendous amount of research. There was a > thread on AOL a couple of years ago about it. Only a > very small percentage of layouts have ever had > problems. The bulk of people do not seal the homasote > or roadbed in any manner and do not experience any > problems. I have built two layouts in basements in > Philadelphia, one in the Dayton, Ohio area, one in > Detroit and now two in Chicago. None have ever had an > expansion or contraction problem with no conditioning of > any basement or the homasote and wood. I will err on > the side of caution in the future but at this point I > think there is more to this issue than just humidity. > There is something else that contributes that has not > been documented yet. >> on 05/10/02 8:42 AM, Ted Andrews at Ted_Andrews@msn.com wrote: >> >> PRR-Listers: >> >> >> >> My PRR HO scale layout is in my basement. My basement is does have a sump >> pump that is mostly used when it rains. I have a very cheap hygrometer ( >> coiled metal strip type) and it usually is in the 50 - 70 percent range. >> >> >> >> What is the range of humidity that is acceptable for a basement? What is the >> best way to measure humidity in a basement? Lastly, what is the best way(s) >> to reduce humidity in a basement? >> >> >> >> TIA >> >> >> >> >> >> Ted Andrews >> >> Ted, >> >> Greg's suggestion of a dehumidifier is the way to go. My layout is also in >> the basement here in the Philadelphia area and the dehumidifier runs >> according to it's humidistat. I also have it set so that it constantly >> drains into the French drain in the basement so that there's never a water >> build-up. IIRC, most dehumidifiers run at between 25~33% humidity which >> should prevent most moisture problems. >> >> Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:57:36 -0400 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] S Scale at the PRR T & HS convention Hi All, As Jamie mentioned, here is my display of S Scale at the PRR T &HS convention last week. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/PRR2002.jpg I had a full freight and small passenger train. All of the S Scale brass builders were represented. There were quite a few people down on their knees looking at the models. I passed out flyers and order forms for the Pennsy S Models X-29 project www.pennysmodels.com and for the River Raisin J-1 project http://riverraisinmodels.com Thanks to all who stopped by to discuss modeling the Mighty Pennsy in (what I think is) the best scale. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 12:06:29 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Cabin quandaries In a message dated 5/10/02 4:22:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ndbprr@att.net writes: > 1600 N6's. that seems like an incredible number to my > thinking. I had no idea there were that many. N Bell > We're still making clever guesses -- but 1600 is credible. In 1921 there was room in the Lines West cabin number series for over 2500 N6's. It's harder to say how many more numbers were available in number series before the 1920-21 system number consolidation. I would assume not all bobbers were converted to N6 classes, and some may have met the scrapper as trains got longer circa WW1. Another way to think about this -- how many trains a day did the Pennsy run? How many locomotives did it have? Logic suggests that the ratio of buggies to locos must have been closer to 60% than 30%, even with all the famed multiple-engine runs to Mt. Carmel, and the helper districts on the main line and elsewhere. We can't cite "low availablity" as a factor, because many engines and cabins were assigned to their one run per day before WW2. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 12:06:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin quandaries --part1_18e.7c0ef3b.2a0e9b85_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/10/02 4:22:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ndbprr@att.net writes: > 1600 N6's. that seems like an incredible number to my > thinking. I had no idea there were that many. N Bell > We're still making clever guesses -- but 1600 is credible. In 1921 there was room in the Lines West cabin number series for over 2500 N6's. It's harder to say how many more numbers were available in number series before the 1920-21 system number consolidation. I would assume not all bobbers were converted to N6 classes, and some may have met the scrapper as trains got longer circa WW1. Another way to think about this -- how many trains a day did the Pennsy run? How many locomotives did it have? Logic suggests that the ratio of buggies to locos must have been closer to 60% than 30%, even with all the famed multiple-engine runs to Mt. Carmel, and the helper districts on the main line and elsewhere. We can't cite "low availablity" as a factor, because many engines and cabins were assigned to their one run per day before WW2. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_18e.7c0ef3b.2a0e9b85_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/10/02 4:22:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ndbprr@att.net writes:


1600 N6's.  that seems like an incredible number to my
thinking.  I had no idea there were that many.  N Bell


We're still making clever guesses -- but 1600 is credible.  In 1921 there was room in the Lines West cabin number series for over 2500 N6's.  It's harder to say how many more numbers were available in number series before the 1920-21 system number consolidation.  I would assume not all bobbers were converted to N6 classes, and some may have met the scrapper as trains got longer circa WW1.

Another way to think about this -- how many trains a day did the Pennsy run?  How many locomotives did it have?  Logic suggests that the ratio of buggies to locos must have been closer to 60% than 30%, even with all the famed multiple-engine runs to Mt. Carmel, and the helper districts on the main line and elsewhere.

We can't cite "low availablity" as a factor, because many engines and cabins were assigned to their one run per day before WW2.



Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_18e.7c0ef3b.2a0e9b85_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:40:24 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Sizing the keystone on N8 cabin cars In a message dated 5/11/02 9:04:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:36:07 -0500 > From: Ken Briers > Subject: [PRR] More on N8 cabin lettering application > > Did the N8 NOT have a 'belt line', so there was room for the larger > keystone? > > Ken Briers > That makes sense - I've observed that PK schemes tend to prescribe the largest keystone that looks good on the specific class of car. Apparently the next to largest of the 6 available (re tracings in the Compendium) was right for the N8 in PK. Interesting is that the many N8's in SK1b or SK2b will not have a Keystone that large. Presumably this is because the PENNSYLVANIA in those schemes leave a smaller space, and also because the shadow takes up a little more room. Remember, though -- we're doing reverse engineering. These "rules" are an observation, not something necessarily explained by PRR documents or PRR veteran employees. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:40:24 EDT Subject: [PRR] Sizing the keystone on N8 cabin cars --part1_18.1f0b9b20.2a0eb188_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/11/02 9:04:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:36:07 -0500 > From: Ken Briers > Subject: [PRR] More on N8 cabin lettering application > > Did the N8 NOT have a 'belt line', so there was room for the larger > keystone? > > Ken Briers > That makes sense - I've observed that PK schemes tend to prescribe the largest keystone that looks good on the specific class of car. Apparently the next to largest of the 6 available (re tracings in the Compendium) was right for the N8 in PK. Interesting is that the many N8's in SK1b or SK2b will not have a Keystone that large. Presumably this is because the PENNSYLVANIA in those schemes leave a smaller space, and also because the shadow takes up a little more room. Remember, though -- we're doing reverse engineering. These "rules" are an observation, not something necessarily explained by PRR documents or PRR veteran employees. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_18.1f0b9b20.2a0eb188_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/11/02 9:04:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 4
   Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:36:07 -0500
   From: Ken Briers <Ken.Briers@parsons.com>
Subject: [PRR] More on N8 cabin lettering application

Did the N8 NOT have a 'belt line', so there was room for the larger keystone?

Ken Briers


That makes sense - I've observed that PK schemes tend to prescribe the largest keystone that looks good on the specific class of car.  Apparently the next to largest of the 6 available (re tracings in the Compendium) was right for the N8 in PK.

Interesting is that the many N8's in SK1b or SK2b will not have a Keystone that large.  Presumably this is because the PENNSYLVANIA in those schemes leave a smaller space, and also because the shadow takes up a little more room.

Remember, though -- we're doing reverse engineering.  These "rules" are an observation, not something necessarily explained by PRR documents or PRR veteran employees.


Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_18.1f0b9b20.2a0eb188_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:47:14 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Fw: (PRR) Coal Shovel? From: GG B3 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_70aa.26f6.2cd1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List, this forwarded e-mail is from a friend of mine in North Central, New Jersey. Any ideas on the value? Respectfully, George Bilderback PRRT&HS Member # 6672 Columbus, Ohio ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "FredC" To: Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:18:54 -0400 Subject: Coal Shovel? Message-ID: <366FCF03E24E8640B3B4FF8A0BE9636F07C80A@exchange.comp-u-site.com> Received: from mx9.boston.juno.com (mx9.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.131]) by m10.boston.juno.com with SMTP id AAA8PZ6ZRAJD8QP2 for (sender ); Fri, 10 May 2002 12:18:55 -0400 (EST) Received: from exchange.comp-u-site.com (cust-wd-cus.warpdrive.net [63.211.86.222]) by mx9.boston.juno.com with SMTP id AAA8PZ6ZRAGAY73S for (sender ); Fri, 10 May 2002 12:18:55 -0400 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1F83E.60FE2B46" Return-Path: Thread-Topic: Coal Shovel? Thread-Index: AcH4PmEJJzNN+JZSQ4eiOp1nGhEMFQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <366FCF03E24E8640B3B4FF8A0BE9636F07C80A@exchange.comp-u-site.com> Hey, My father just was given and interesting collectable. It is an original PRR coal shovel with a PRR keystone branded into the handle. It is a long handled with a square head It is in very good condition and probably pretty rare. Any ideas on value? A friend of his found it in the garbage and gave it to him! He is now reading Set Up Running and says it is great. I cant wait to read it. Fred ----__JNP_000_70aa.26f6.2cd1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List, this forwarded e-mail is from a friend of mine in North Central,= New=20 Jersey. Any ideas on the value?
 
Respectfully,
George Bilderback
PRRT&HS Member # 6672
Columbus, Ohio
 
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From: "FredC" <FredC@Comp-U-Site.com>
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Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:18:54 -0400
Subject: Coal Shovel?
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Hey,

 

My father just was given and= =20 interesting collectable.  It is an original PRR coal shovel with a PRR= =20 keystone branded into the handle.

It is a long handled with a = square=20 head It is in very good condition and probably pretty rare.  Any ideas= on=20 value? A friend of his found it in the garbage and gave it to him!  He= is=20 now reading Set Up Running and says it is great.  I cant wait to read= =20 it.

 

Fred

<= /BODY> ----__JNP_000_70aa.26f6.2cd1-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:52:46 EDT Subject: [PRR] KADEES, You "small scale" guys are so confused over the wide varieties of Kadees - in real men's size trains (1:48) we have only one and the only choice is like at the super market "Plastic or ....." If any of you know those folks in Oregon we could sure use a solid shank coupler in 1/4" scale..... Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 08:54:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Warping homasote -- you have me worried In a message dated 5/12/2002 8:11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, prrbill@op.net writes: << One thing I forgot to include was the idea of leaving about a quarter's edge gap between the pieces of Homasote. Some people butt them together which is a major mistake if you have a humid basement. I've seen the warpage when people do that. >> Since I am about to embark on a new PRR/EBT layout, this thread really has me curious (and worried). Can I ask those who have experienced warping how you are securing the homasote and to what? My homasote has always been attached to 1/2" plywood roadbed with wire nails every 4 inches or so to hold it while the Elmer's glue under the homasote dries. I make no conscious effort to leave expansion gaps. And I exacerbate the problem by using Hayden's water-soluble scenery method, so the homasote gets good a wet various times. I have never had a warping problem, in a marginally heated basement, poorly sealed basement in a humid climate, in which a dehumidifier runs during the summer. What are other people doing differently that may explain the problem? Lee Rainey ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MarkCFry@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 09:41:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Warping homasote -- you have me worried --part1_40.1d9c1dc3.2a0fcb19_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've used homasoate on all layouts I've helped to build, and while the warnings issued here are valid, there are precautions you can take to minimize and serious damage. First all of, if possible, it is advisable to purchase your homasoate early and let it sit in your basement as long as possible so that is can 'settle' and adjust itself to the climate in your basement. Ideally, this could be as long as a year. When the time comes to install the homasoate, I always paint BOTH sides, making sure I seal it thoroughly. This prevents the homasoate from absorbing any moisture. Finally, when you attach it to your roadbed, spread some glue (white glue is ideal) evenly over the entire surface of the homasoate. Then carefully lay it down in place and clamp it (or screw it down) so that the entire piece attaches evenly to your plywood subroadbed. A dehumidifier is a great idea in your basement, regardless if you have a layout or not. This prevents mildew from the moisture. With all these precautions, you may still experience some strange track behavior over the course of the first year. Remember that even the wood on your layout will expand and contract with the change of seasons, but usually after the first year, these materials have 'settled' and any future movement will be minimal. I've seen layouts (including in one area on my own) where the track itself popped up off the roadbed and kinked as a result of expansion and contraction. A small cut in the track, repositioning and re-gluing fixed the problem. After that first year, I haven't noticed any further problems. Some may suggest using more stable materials such as rigid insulation foam. While this is a great material for scenery, I personally don't care for it as a roadbed material. My biggest complaint with this material is the sound factor, as it seems to actually amplify the sound. Mark In a message dated 5/12/2002 8:11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, prrbill@op.net writes: << One thing I forgot to include was the idea of leaving about a quarter's edge gap between the pieces of Homasote. Some people butt them together which is a major mistake if you have a humid basement. I've seen the warpage when people do that. >> Since I am about to embark on a new PRR/EBT layout, this thread really has me curious (and worried). Can I ask those who have experienced warping how you are securing the homasote and to what? My homasote has always been attached to 1/2" plywood roadbed with wire nails every 4 inches or so to hold it while the Elmer's glue under the homasote dries. I make no conscious effort to leave expansion gaps. And I exacerbate the problem by using Hayden's water-soluble scenery method, so the homasote gets good a wet various times. I have never had a warping problem, in a marginally heated basement, poorly sealed basement in a humid climate, in which a dehumidifier runs during the summer. What are other people doing differently that may explain the problem? Lee Rainey --part1_40.1d9c1dc3.2a0fcb19_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've used homasoate on all layouts I've helped to build, and while the warnings issued here are valid, there are precautions you can take to minimize and serious damage.

First all of, if possible, it is advisable to purchase your homasoate early and let it sit in your basement as long as possible so that is can 'settle' and adjust itself to the climate in your basement.  Ideally, this could be as long as a year.  When the time comes to install the homasoate, I always paint BOTH sides, making sure I seal it thoroughly.  This prevents the homasoate from absorbing any moisture.  Finally, when you attach it to your roadbed, spread some glue (white glue is ideal) evenly over the entire surface of the homasoate.  Then carefully lay it down in place and clamp it (or screw it down) so that the entire piece attaches evenly to your plywood subroadbed.  A dehumidifier is a great idea in your basement, regardless if you have a layout or not.  This prevents mildew from the moisture.

With all these precautions, you may still experience some strange track behavior over the course of the first year.  Remember that even the wood on your layout will expand and contract with the change of seasons, but usually after the first year, these materials have 'settled' and any future movement will be minimal.  I've seen layouts (including in one area on my own) where the track itself popped up off the roadbed and kinked as a result of expansion and contraction.  A small cut in the track, repositioning and re-gluing fixed the problem.  After that first year, I haven't noticed any further problems.

Some may suggest using more stable materials such as rigid insulation foam.  While this is a great material for scenery, I personally don't care for it as a roadbed material.  My biggest complaint with this material is the sound factor, as it seems to actually amplify the sound.

Mark

In a message dated 5/12/2002 8:11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, prrbill@op.net
writes:

<< One thing I forgot to include was the idea of leaving about a quarter's
edge gap between the pieces of Homasote.  Some people butt them together
which is a major mistake if you have a humid basement.   I've seen the
warpage when people do that.
 >>

Since I am about to embark on a new PRR/EBT layout, this thread really has me
curious (and worried).

Can I ask those who have experienced warping how you are securing the
homasote and to what?

My homasote has always been attached to 1/2" plywood roadbed with wire nails
every 4 inches or so to hold it while the Elmer's glue under the homasote
dries. I make no conscious effort to leave expansion gaps. And I exacerbate
the problem by using Hayden's water-soluble scenery method, so the homasote
gets good a wet various times.

I have never had a warping problem, in a marginally heated basement, poorly
sealed basement in a humid climate, in which a dehumidifier runs during the
summer.

What are other people doing differently that may explain the problem?

Lee Rainey


--part1_40.1d9c1dc3.2a0fcb19_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:04:13 -0400 From: davep Subject: [Fwd: Re: [PRR] Warping homasote -- you have me worried] >I've used homasoate on all layouts I've helped to build, and while the >warnings issued here are valid, there are precautions you can take to >minimize and serious damage. >First all of, if possible, it is advisable to purchase your homasoate >early and let it sit in your basement as long as possible so that it >can 'settle' and adjust itself to the climate in your basement. Sound advice. One catch is that many basements have variable climates. Such variations can lead to trouble, regardless of aging. Humidfiers/dehumidifiers (as apropos) may help. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:05:34 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] More on Mingo In a message dated 4/20/02 11:46:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:00:55 -0400 > From: "nancy e. mcgrew" > Subject: Re: Mingo Jct roundhouse > > I do not remember any backshop or machine shop area around the roundhouse. > I > was never permitted on the property and could only view from the street > about 100' away. Could see large roundhouse of course and coaling tower, > sand area and water of course. This was all just north of roundhouse. > > I don't remember seeing any major construction at the roundhouse for > expansion. If it happened it would have to be on the east end since ther > was > a diner on the south side about 100' from the corner of the building. The > diner existed because of the workers employed at the roundhouse. Many train > crews went through that diner. > > One of my brothers was a hostler at the roundhouse for a year or two. > Another brother fired from there. Have many RR memories of the area but no > real facts. > > Jesse McGrew > > Still not sure of original roundhouse construction date (1917?), but while at Curt LaRue's house in Cincy, saw a map/chart of Mingo Jct Yard, with 1944 stall addition shown. These 6 or so (longer) stalls were added to the south end of the existing house, creating a half circle or more with its opening to the east (toward the Ohio River on the other side of the yard). The power house (and machine shop space?) were on the north side, and their reinforced concrete construction matched the original enginehouse. Believe the addition employed a brick curtain wall. When PC/CR's 6-motor Alco fleet lived here, the end walls of each stall of this addition were punched out in a different pattern. Apparently, either the Centuries or their hostler (hopefully not your brother) were a sloppy braker. Can I assume this structure is now history? Don't think I've been by since 1976. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:05:34 EDT Subject: [PRR] More on Mingo --part1_31.26d5643e.2a0fdebe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/20/02 11:46:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:00:55 -0400 > From: "nancy e. mcgrew" > Subject: Re: Mingo Jct roundhouse > > I do not remember any backshop or machine shop area around the roundhouse. > I > was never permitted on the property and could only view from the street > about 100' away. Could see large roundhouse of course and coaling tower, > sand area and water of course. This was all just north of roundhouse. > > I don't remember seeing any major construction at the roundhouse for > expansion. If it happened it would have to be on the east end since ther > was > a diner on the south side about 100' from the corner of the building. The > diner existed because of the workers employed at the roundhouse. Many train > crews went through that diner. > > One of my brothers was a hostler at the roundhouse for a year or two. > Another brother fired from there. Have many RR memories of the area but no > real facts. > > Jesse McGrew > > Still not sure of original roundhouse construction date (1917?), but while at Curt LaRue's house in Cincy, saw a map/chart of Mingo Jct Yard, with 1944 stall addition shown. These 6 or so (longer) stalls were added to the south end of the existing house, creating a half circle or more with its opening to the east (toward the Ohio River on the other side of the yard). The power house (and machine shop space?) were on the north side, and their reinforced concrete construction matched the original enginehouse. Believe the addition employed a brick curtain wall. When PC/CR's 6-motor Alco fleet lived here, the end walls of each stall of this addition were punched out in a different pattern. Apparently, either the Centuries or their hostler (hopefully not your brother) were a sloppy braker. Can I assume this structure is now history? Don't think I've been by since 1976. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_31.26d5643e.2a0fdebe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/20/02 11:46:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 14
   Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:00:55 -0400
   From: "nancy e. mcgrew" <nancyesq@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Mingo Jct roundhouse

I do not remember any backshop or machine shop area around the roundhouse. I
was never permitted on the property and could only view from the street
about 100' away. Could see large roundhouse of course and  coaling tower,
sand area and water of course. This was all just north of roundhouse.

I don't remember seeing any major construction at the roundhouse for
expansion. If it happened it would have to be on the east end since ther was
a diner on the south side about 100' from the corner of the building. The
diner existed because of the workers employed at the roundhouse. Many train
crews went through that diner.

One of my brothers was a hostler at the roundhouse for a year or two.
Another brother fired from there. Have many RR memories of the area but no
real facts.

Jesse McGrew



Still not sure of original roundhouse construction date (1917?), but while at Curt LaRue's house in Cincy, saw a map/chart of Mingo Jct Yard, with 1944 stall addition shown.  These 6 or so (longer) stalls were added to the south end of the existing house, creating a half circle or more with its opening to the east (toward the Ohio River on the other side of the yard).  The power house (and machine shop space?) were on the north side, and their reinforced concrete construction matched the original enginehouse.

Believe the addition employed a brick curtain wall.  When PC/CR's 6-motor Alco fleet lived here, the end walls of each stall of this addition were punched out in a different pattern.  Apparently, either the Centuries or their hostler (hopefully not your brother) were a sloppy braker.

Can I assume this structure is now history?  Don't think I've been by since 1976.



Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_31.26d5643e.2a0fdebe_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 12:05:37 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] Warping homasote -- you have me worried LeeRainey@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/12/2002 8:11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, prrbill@op.net > writes: > > << One thing I forgot to include was the idea of leaving about a quarter's > edge gap between the pieces of Homasote. Some people butt them together > which is a major mistake if you have a humid basement. I've seen the > warpage when people do that. > >> > > Since I am about to embark on a new PRR/EBT layout, this thread really has me > curious (and worried). > > Can I ask those who have experienced warping how you are securing the > homasote and to what? > > My homasote has always been attached to 1/2" plywood roadbed with wire nails > every 4 inches or so to hold it while the Elmer's glue under the homasote > dries. I make no conscious effort to leave expansion gaps. And I exacerbate > the problem by using Hayden's water-soluble scenery method, so the homasote > gets good a wet various times. > > I have never had a warping problem, in a marginally heated basement, poorly > sealed basement in a humid climate, in which a dehumidifier runs during the > summer. > > What are other people doing differently that may explain the problem? > > Lee Rainey Lee, I think a key component in preventing any warping of your homasote is your dehumidifier. Sometimes my dehumidifier runs 24 hours a day. Another factor is the age/structure of the home. Mine was built in December of 1941 and has a stone foundation which does let moisture in. Other newer homes in the are which have a poured concrete/cinderblock foundation with a better/newer sealer might not experience as severe a problem. My home is also built on the site of a quarry with clay soil. There are so many different factors involved I always advise people to err on the side of caution. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:10:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Warping homasote -- preventing --part1_14b.dcb6619.2a0ffc18_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/12/2002 12:10:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, prrbill@op.net writes: > I think a key component in preventing any warping of your homasote is > your dehumidifier. Sometimes my dehumidifier runs 24 hours a day. > Another factor is the age/structure of the home. Mine was built in > December of 1941 and has a stone foundation which does let moisture in. > Other newer homes in the are which have a poured concrete/cinderblock > foundation with a better/newer sealer might not experience as severe a > problem. My home is also built on the site of a quarry with clay soil. > There are so many different factors involved I always advise people to > err on the side of caution. > Bill, Lee and all: At the Western Pennsylvania Model Railroad Museum, we have had nearly complete success in preventing the warping of homasote. Remember homasote is nothing but pressed paper so it will absorb moisture from the air even with low humidity. Anyway back to my point. We cut 4lb shellac to 2lb with denatured alcohol. Both sides and all edges are thoroughly covered with the thinned shellac. After this dries, a second coat is applied. This seals the homasote. Any time a board is cut it is necessary to shellac the exposed surfaces. Otherwise you have created a point where water can be absorbed. That is why I said we have had nearly complete success. At times those working on the layout have not resealed the homasote after making cuts. Rich Orr --part1_14b.dcb6619.2a0ffc18_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/12/2002 12:10:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, prrbill@op.net writes:


I think a key component in preventing any warping of your homasote is
your dehumidifier.  Sometimes my dehumidifier runs 24 hours a day.
Another factor is the age/structure of the home.  Mine was built in
December of 1941 and has a stone foundation which does let moisture in.
Other newer homes in the are which have a poured concrete/cinderblock
foundation with a better/newer sealer might not experience as severe a
problem.  My home is also built on the site of a quarry with clay soil.
 There are so many different factors involved I always advise people to
err on the side of caution.


Bill, Lee and all:

At the Western Pennsylvania Model Railroad Museum, we have had nearly complete success in preventing the warping of homasote.  Remember homasote is nothing but pressed paper so it will absorb moisture from the air even with low humidity.  Anyway back to my point.  We cut 4lb shellac to 2lb with denatured alcohol.  Both sides and all edges are thoroughly covered with the thinned shellac.  After this dries, a second coat is applied.  This seals the homasote.  Any time a board is cut it is necessary to shellac the exposed surfaces.  Otherwise you have created a point where water can be absorbed.  That is why I said we have had nearly complete success.  At times those working on the layout have not resealed the homasote after making cuts.

Rich Orr --part1_14b.dcb6619.2a0ffc18_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] Baldwin DS-4-4-1000's Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:22:03 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1FA03.7144E170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list: I am new to the PRR realm and do not have a top of resources to help me = with some research. I am hoping that someone on this list might be able = to help me answer a question or two. I am searching for information on PRR DS-4-4-1000 number 9059. When was = it purchased and where did it operate? Also DS-4-4-1000 number 5575 worked the Schuylkill Valley line (I have a = photo). When was this unit purchased? When did it start working the = Schuylkill Branch? I will also accept any general information about this Baldwin type on = the PRR. Thanks for your help. Jeff Smith ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1FA03.7144E170 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear list:
 
I am new to the PRR realm and do not = have a top of=20 resources to help me with some research.  I am hoping = that someone on=20 this list might be able to help me answer a question or = two.
 
I am searching for information on PRR = DS-4-4-1000=20 number 9059.  When was it purchased and where did it = operate?
 
Also DS-4-4-1000 number 5575 worked the = Schuylkill=20 Valley line (I have a photo).  When was this unit purchased?  = When did=20 it start working the Schuylkill Branch?
 
I will also accept any general = information about=20 this Baldwin type on the PRR.
 
Thanks for your help.
 
Jeff Smith
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1FA03.7144E170-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 02:16:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] MAINLINE MODELER ARTICLE Mark and all, MY PLATE IS FULL! I can tell you that I have not written the article as of yet and it will likely not go to Mainline it will likely show up in Model Railroading. I have been busy working on an ATLAS RS-1, which appears to have the radiator in the wrong spot, and my Scuttlebutt column is late as I was out of town on business until Friday when I stopped by to see the other boss, Bob Hundman of Mainline Modeler going over the RS-1 and searching for drawings which are coming from long time friend Bruce Meyers of EMD. I gave a clinic in Tacoma, WA this past Saturday for the NMRA/PNR at their regional meet on diesel research and model detailing and then watched HO Scale trains running at a magnificent layout at the Washington State History Museum, in Tacoma, WA, albeit Northern Pacific/Milwaukee Prototype, it is very nicely done and Lou Sassi just photographed it last week for MR. Greg Martin << Can anyone tell me if Greg Martin's article on detailing the Athearn Genesis F-7 has been published and if so what month would it have been in. THANKS MARK >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Warping homasote -- you have me worried Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:43:01 -0400 Guys, I have found that painting the homasote with a cheap latex wall paint will seal it and eliminate warping. I have used this method on my "O"Scale modules and on our club layout down in Tuckahoe, South Jersey where the humidity can get unbearable. Fasten the homasote to the benchwork, plywood, or whatever. You don't need expansion gaps. Before laying track paint the exposed surfaces of the homasote and let it dry. This seals the homasote and provides a base color for the roadbed. You might have to thin the paint slightly to get it to cover completely. Just dip the brush into a bit of water occasionally, this will allow the paint to fill all the voids. This process works, and takes very little time. Hope this helps. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: prrbill [mailto:prrbill@op.net] Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 12:06 PM To: LeeRainey@aol.com Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Warping homasote -- you have me worried LeeRainey@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/12/2002 8:11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, prrbill@op.net > writes: > > << One thing I forgot to include was the idea of leaving about a quarter's > edge gap between the pieces of Homasote. Some people butt them together > which is a major mistake if you have a humid basement. I've seen the > warpage when people do that. > >> > > Since I am about to embark on a new PRR/EBT layout, this thread really has me > curious (and worried). > > Can I ask those who have experienced warping how you are securing the > homasote and to what? > > My homasote has always been attached to 1/2" plywood roadbed with wire nails > every 4 inches or so to hold it while the Elmer's glue under the homasote > dries. I make no conscious effort to leave expansion gaps. And I exacerbate > the problem by using Hayden's water-soluble scenery method, so the homasote > gets good a wet various times. > > I have never had a warping problem, in a marginally heated basement, poorly > sealed basement in a humid climate, in which a dehumidifier runs during the > summer. > > What are other people doing differently that may explain the problem? > > Lee Rainey Lee, I think a key component in preventing any warping of your homasote is your dehumidifier. Sometimes my dehumidifier runs 24 hours a day. Another factor is the age/structure of the home. Mine was built in December of 1941 and has a stone foundation which does let moisture in. Other newer homes in the are which have a poured concrete/cinderblock foundation with a better/newer sealer might not experience as severe a problem. My home is also built on the site of a quarry with clay soil. There are so many different factors involved I always advise people to err on the side of caution. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Farquhar" Subject: Re: [PRR] Warping homasote -- you have me worried Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:51:19 -0400 I have used this technique as well and I can vouch for its efficacy. John Farquhar ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burnley, Charles" To: Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 8:43 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Warping homasote -- you have me worried > Guys, > > I have found that painting the homasote with a cheap latex wall paint > will seal it and eliminate warping. I have used this method on my > "O"Scale modules and on our club layout down in Tuckahoe, South Jersey > where the humidity can get unbearable. > Fasten the homasote to the benchwork, plywood, or whatever. You don't need > expansion gaps. Before laying track paint the exposed surfaces of the > homasote and let it dry. > This seals the homasote and provides a base color for the roadbed. You might > have to thin the > paint slightly to get it to cover completely. Just dip the brush into a bit > of water > occasionally, this will allow the paint to fill all the voids. > This process works, and takes very little time. > Hope this helps. > > Buzz > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: prrbill [mailto:prrbill@op.net] > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 12:06 PM > To: LeeRainey@aol.com > Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Warping homasote -- you have me worried > > > LeeRainey@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 5/12/2002 8:11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > prrbill@op.net > > writes: > > > > << One thing I forgot to include was the idea of leaving about a quarter's > > edge gap between the pieces of Homasote. Some people butt them together > > which is a major mistake if you have a humid basement. I've seen the > > warpage when people do that. > > >> > > > > Since I am about to embark on a new PRR/EBT layout, this thread really has > me > > curious (and worried). > > > > Can I ask those who have experienced warping how you are securing the > > homasote and to what? > > > > My homasote has always been attached to 1/2" plywood roadbed with wire > nails > > every 4 inches or so to hold it while the Elmer's glue under the homasote > > dries. I make no conscious effort to leave expansion gaps. And I > exacerbate > > the problem by using Hayden's water-soluble scenery method, so the > homasote > > gets good a wet various times. > > > > I have never had a warping problem, in a marginally heated basement, > poorly > > sealed basement in a humid climate, in which a dehumidifier runs during > the > > summer. > > > > What are other people doing differently that may explain the problem? > > > > Lee Rainey > > Lee, > > I think a key component in preventing any warping of your homasote is > your dehumidifier. Sometimes my dehumidifier runs 24 hours a day. > Another factor is the age/structure of the home. Mine was built in > December of 1941 and has a stone foundation which does let moisture in. > Other newer homes in the are which have a poured concrete/cinderblock > foundation with a better/newer sealer might not experience as severe a > problem. My home is also built on the site of a quarry with clay soil. > There are so many different factors involved I always advise people to > err on the side of caution. > > Bill > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] Baldwin DS-4-4-1000's Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:00:11 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C1FA5C.96FC58E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Howdy Jeff: 5575 later numbered to 7975, PRR class BS10 was assigned to the Philadelphia region, built January 1950, builders number 74625 9059 later numbered to 8009, PRR class BS10 was assigned to the Lake region, built March 1949, builders number 74101 Both units appear to be off the PC roster before 6/1/73, as they are not listed as getting a third number. Check out John Hahns book Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 2  Baldwin Switchers and Road Switchers published by Withers Publishing. Jerry may have them in stock? Cos Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com.trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone Dear list: I am searching for information on PRR DS-4-4-1000 number 9059. When was it purchased and where did it operate? Also DS-4-4-1000 number 5575 worked the Schuylkill Valley line (I have a photo). When was this unit purchased? When did it start working the Schuylkill Branch? I will also accept any general information about this Baldwin type on the PRR. Thanks for your help. Jeff Smith ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C1FA5C.96FC58E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ho= wdy Jeff:

55= 75 later numbered to 7975, PRR class BS10 was assigned to the Philadelphia = region, built January 1950, builders number 74625

90= 59 later numbered to 8009, PRR class BS10 was assigned to the Lake region, built = March 1949, builders number 74101

Bo= th units appear to be off the PC roster before 6/1/73, as they are not listed as = getting a third number.

 

Ch= eck out John Hahn’s book “Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive = Pictorial Volume 2 – Baldwin Switchers and Road Switchers” published by Withers = Publishing.  Jerry may have them in = stock?

 

Cos

=

 

Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road

=

NMRA, = MER, Susquehanna Div, 11

=

NHRS, = Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061

=

http://www.wsbcos.com.trainsmenu.htm

at the west end of the PRR electrified = zone

=

<= span class=3DEmailStyle15> 

 

Dear list:

 <= /p>

I am searching for information on PRR DS-4-4-1000 number 9059.  When was = it purchased and where did it operate?<= /p>

 <= /p>

Also DS-4-4-1000 number 5575 worked the Schuylkill Valley line (I have a photo).  When was this unit purchased?  When did it start = working the Schuylkill Branch?

 <= /p>

I will also accept any general information about this Baldwin type on the = PRR.<= /p>

 <= /p>

Thanks for your help.

 <= /p>

Jeff Smith

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C1FA5C.96FC58E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 06:37:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Andrews Subject: [PRR] Chartiers Branch Jim, As promised, here are my somewhat random memories of the Chartiers Branch of the PRR in the late forties and fifties. Sorry it took a while. As I was a kid living in Canonsburg and my family had no auto, I had practically no knowledge of what went on up or down the line, so this all has to do with Canonsburg. Pennsylvania Transformer (which later became part of McGraw-Edison), Continental Can, RCA, LB Smith and some other unknown industries were clustered in the 40s version of an industrial park on the East side of town. There was a very high trolley bridge with a walkway that spanned the edge of the area. This was a favorite train watching spot, but dangerous because no one wanted to be caught on that bridge by a gang of kids from another part of town. PA Transformer shipped out all types & sizes of transformers on flat cars. The largest went out on depressed center flats. Continental Can made only the tops and bottoms of tin cans, so the waste that I mentioned earlier were the rectangular sheets with a lot of circles punched out. It reminded me of a sheet of cookie dough after the cookies had been punched out. It was a yellowish color on one side probably because it had been coated with lacquer and tin can color on the other side. The special gons were 40 footers with 4 or 5 foot wooden extensions. The whole car, trucks, couplers, extensions, everything was painted Tuscan. There was a gap between the boards, so you could see the cargo thru the slats and there were often spilled pieces along the roadbed. The cars were spotted under an outside platform and we often watched as a worker would come out of the factory and dump a load of waste into the gons below. I think RCA had boxcars spotted inside the building, but I'm not sure of that, it might have been a spur out of sight on the other side of the buiding. Fort Pitt Bridge Works had a large mill on the south side of town. Most of the structural shapes they shipped out were huge. They were often loaded on 65' mill gons with the ends down and idler flats on each side. The structural shapes were almost always painted a bright orange. There were 3 lumber yards in town. Donaldson Supply, Hardy and Rankin and Cianelli's. They all got lumber and other building materials in boxcars and occasionally on flat cars, Donaldson and H&R were also concrete suppliers so they occasionally got gons full of building sand. The gons were spotted next to a bucket hoist which unloaded them. I don't recall seeing bulk cement delivered in covered hoppers, but that's a possibility. Donaldson's cement trucks were red and H&R's had yellow cabs with silver colored mixers. Home heating by oil was unheard of in that place at that time, so there were no oil dealers. I can't remember specifically who or where they were, but there must have been some small coal dealers who received one or two hoppers. There were numerous other warehouses and wholesalers who had rail spurs and occasionally got boxcars. The town team track was also a busy place, mostly box cars but an occasional flat with some big shipment. I remember the passenger station which was near the team track, had a bright orange colored Mediteranian tile roof. In the middle and late fortys there was a lot of coal train activity with loaded trains moving northward toward Pittsburgh. That seemed to die off in the fiftys. They were mostly PRR H21s and GLas pulled by decapods or N2s. There must have been a hopper shortage in the war years because sometimes we saw coal in gondolas or foreign road hoppers. Local freights and industrial switching was handled by consolidations. Locals used a wooden N6b cabin while thru trains had N5bs, N5cs and N8s. Work trains were consol powered with grey wooden work cars and we saw the big hook in action a few times. The once a day each way commuter run was handled by ten wheelers. At the time, I thought they were K4s. I was impressed by how clean and shiny they were compared to the freight locos and also by how much faster they moved. The passenger engines had a low throaty whistle while the freight locos had a high shrill sound. Commuter coaches were 4 or 5 P70s and I'm not positive, but I think there might have been a combine included. I don't know where the passenger engines laid over overnight. Probably in Washington PA. The first diesel I ever saw was a Baldwin switcher probably a VO. No one was very impressed by it and we thought it was a passing fad. This was probably about 1948. After steam was gone about 1953, most local freight work was handled by Baldwin or EMD switchers. I only saw cab units once, a back-to-back pair of Fairbanks Morse C Liners. I never saw another cab or a hood unit of any kind. The local switcher would place cars it had collected during the day in a small yard not far from the Bridge Works. One day's highlight in the yard was a yellow wooden Muncie & Western Ball Line boxcar lettered like the one Train Miniature put out some years ago except it was outside braced, not smooth sided like the TM model. At that time, a good percentage of the box cars were still wooden. Tank cars were rare and I never saw a refrigerator car or a stock car. About 2 AM, a southbound train pulled by two back-to-back FM switchers would stop and work the yard for about an hour. I was probably the only one living nearby who didn't mind being awakened by the clanging and banging. A couple of hours later, he would return from the other direction and make a short stop. The train was usually pretty long, I can't really estimate how many cars, but there were so many that sometimes I couldn't imagine where they all came from. Hope this helps. Joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 06:57:21 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Chartiers Branch --- Joseph Andrews wrote: > Jim, > As promised, here are my somewhat random memories > of > the Chartiers Branch of the PRR in the late > forties and fifties. [...] I was a kid > living in Canonsburg and my family had no auto, I > had practically no knowledge of what went on up or > down the line, Amen, brother. I was in the same situation out in Latrobe in those days. > Pennsylvania Transformer (which later became part of > McGraw-Edison), In 1974 or '5 I drove down route 19 past Canonsburg. The McGraw-Edison plant had a 3 or 4 track yard which ran at right-angles to the PRR (PC by then) line. At the time, there was a tasteful collection of heavy-duty flat cars parked there. Can't recite class and road name, but some were quite heavy-duty. Four 6-wheel trucks on one, I recall. There were probably 6 or 8 cars there. > There was a very high trolley bridge with a > walkway that spanned the edge of the area. This was > a favorite train watching spot, but dangerous because > no one wanted to be caught on that bridge by a gang > of kids from another part of town. Ah, the joys of growing up in southwestern PA. [...] > There must have been a hopper > shortage in the war years because sometimes we saw > coal in gondolas or foreign road hoppers. There was a shortage of everything then. I recall seeing many small D&H cars pass through Latrobe loaded with coal. They were, at first glance, wood-side gondolas built on a steel underframe with fishbelly side sills. Looking closer, however, the tips of two hoppers could be seen peeking out below the side sills. Don't know if they were self-clearing, have looked in vain in the D&H literature for more data. Probably had nothing to do with the Chartiers branch, but they were coming from that direction. [...] > I don't know where the passenger > engines laid over overnight. Probably in Washington > PA. A good bet. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:14:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Baldwin DS-4-4-1000's --part1_159.dda8cf8.2a115c74_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/12/2002 10:31:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stacktalk@dejazzd.com writes: > I am searching for information on PRR DS-4-4-1000 number 9059. When was it > purchased and where did it operate? > > 9059 was shipped by Baldwin on March 30, 1949. Builder number 74109. It was assigned to the Lake Region in 1957 and still there in 1960. I have no information on earlier assignments. It was renumbered 8009 on May 11, 1967. This information is from "Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial: Vol 2. Baldwin Switchers and Road Switchers" by John Hahn. Rich Orr --part1_159.dda8cf8.2a115c74_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/12/2002 10:31:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stacktalk@dejazzd.com writes:


I am searching for information on PRR DS-4-4-1000 number 9059.  When was it purchased and where did it operate?



9059 was shipped by Baldwin on March 30, 1949.  Builder number 74109.  It was assigned to the Lake Region in 1957 and still there in 1960.  I have no information on earlier assignments.  It was renumbered 8009 on May 11, 1967.  This information is from "Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial: Vol 2. Baldwin Switchers and Road Switchers" by John Hahn.

Rich Orr --part1_159.dda8cf8.2a115c74_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 12:43:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Final project --0-2033924388-1021319016=:52455 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, today was D-day for me since I had to defend my final project (comparison of the Pennsy in 1944 and Amtrak in 2000 between NYC and Chicago) before a jury (to finish college). I went great and I passed without any problems. The jury found my project very good (language, content, sources) and the defending today was excellent. This wasn't all my work, I have to thank you guys for helping me out last summer when I went to the US for 13 days to do some research, see what was left of the Pennsy, and see the US. So thanks to everybody who helped me last year especially Bennet Levin, Bill Seigford, Chris Baer, George Deeming and Kurt Bell. Hopefully till my next visit to the US. Regards, Geoffrey --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience --0-2033924388-1021319016=:52455 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

 Hi,

today was D-day for me since I had to defend my final project (comparison of the Pennsy in 1944 and Amtrak in 2000 between NYC and Chicago) before a jury (to finish college).

I went great and I passed without any problems. The jury found my project very good (language, content, sources) and the defending today was excellent.

This wasn't all my work, I have to thank you guys for helping me out last summer when I went to the US for 13 days to do some research, see what was left of the Pennsy, and see the US.

So thanks to everybody who helped me last year especially Bennet Levin, Bill Seigford, Chris Baer, George Deeming and Kurt Bell.

Hopefully till my next visit to the US.

Regards,

Geoffrey


Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience --0-2033924388-1021319016=:52455-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:00:15 -0700 (PDT) From: m repka Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh &Ohio Central fantrip on the old Chartiers Branch With a upcoming fantrip on the ex PRR, ex PC, ex CR, ex PIR, now P&OC Chartiers Branch, the idea came to me, that is one line that I do not think has seen any type of passenger special in a long, long time! Anyone know for sure? It may even be back to regular PRR pass. service, if so were looking at about 40 years! Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Final project Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:14:12 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01C1FA99.38362F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Congratulations!!! Lew Matt ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Geoffrey Van Dooren=20 To: v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net ; PRR talk list ; PRR-Modeling ; = prrFAX ; Bill Seigford=20 Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 3:43 PM Subject: [PRR] Final project Hi,=20 today was D-day for me since I had to defend my final project = (comparison of the Pennsy in 1944 and Amtrak in 2000 between NYC and = Chicago) before a jury (to finish college).=20 I went great and I passed without any problems. The jury found my = project very good (language, content, sources) and the defending today = was excellent.=20 This wasn't all my work, I have to thank you guys for helping me out = last summer when I went to the US for 13 days to do some research, see = what was left of the Pennsy, and see the US.=20 So thanks to everybody who helped me last year especially Bennet = Levin, Bill Seigford, Chris Baer, George Deeming and Kurt Bell.=20 Hopefully till my next visit to the US.=20 Regards,=20 Geoffrey -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01C1FA99.38362F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Congratulations!!!
 
Lew Matt
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Geoffrey Van Dooren =
To: v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net= ;=20 PRR = talk list ;=20 PRR-Modeling ; prrFAX ; Bill = Seigford
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 3:43 = PM
Subject: [PRR] Final = project

 Hi,=20

today was D-day for me since I had to defend my final project = (comparison=20 of the Pennsy in 1944 and Amtrak in 2000 between NYC and Chicago) = before a=20 jury (to finish college).=20

I went great and I passed without any problems. The jury found my = project=20 very good (language, content, sources) and the defending today was = excellent.=20

This wasn't all my work, I have to thank you guys for helping me = out last=20 summer when I went to the US for 13 days to do some research, see what = was=20 left of the Pennsy, and see the US.=20

So thanks to everybody who helped me last year especially Bennet = Levin,=20 Bill Seigford, Chris Baer, George Deeming and Kurt Bell.=20

Hopefully till my next visit to the US.=20

Regards,=20

Geoffrey


Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH = - Your=20 Yahoo! Music Experience ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01C1FA99.38362F60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Cullen" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pittsburgh &Ohio Central fantrip on the old Chartiers Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:12:25 -0400 Mike, >From the "Canonsburg's prosperity arrived on the railroad" on the www.chartiers.com site: "The last scheduled passenger train through Canonsburg (Chartiers Branch) made its final stop at 6:27 p.m. on July 30, 1952. It was pulled by a big K-4 steam locomotive #3489, that with its tender was nearly too long for the turntable at Washington." Jim Cullen -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of m repka Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 4:00 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh &Ohio Central fantrip on the old Chartiers Branch With a upcoming fantrip on the ex PRR, ex PC, ex CR, ex PIR, now P&OC Chartiers Branch, the idea came to me, that is one line that I do not think has seen any type of passenger special in a long, long time! Anyone know for sure? It may even be back to regular PRR pass. service, if so were looking at about 40 years! Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited-Round Robn Guys, Last year I offered to have a round robin viewng of a video of that old Hollywood production "The Broadway Limited". So far I would guess it has seen about 25,000 miles of travel around the US from coast to coast and from the northern boarder to the southern boarder. All has gone smoothly up til now. I Thank you all for making this work. Only a few more people on the list needs to receive it for their viewing pleasure. Would anyone know exactly where the video is at this moment? Personally I know where it should be but there is a slight possibilty it is in someone elses video collection by mistake. If someone here happens to have it, PLEASE, drop me an email. Thanks, Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "dfc PRR 7002" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pittsburgh &Ohio Central fantrip on the old Chartiers Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 05:45:48 -0400 The word at the trolley museum (co-hosts of the excursions) is almost 50 years. DF Cramer >From: m repka >To: PRR-Talk >Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh &Ohio Central fantrip on the old Chartiers Branch >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:00:15 -0700 (PDT) > >With a upcoming fantrip on the ex PRR, ex PC, ex CR, >ex PIR, now P&OC Chartiers Branch, the idea came to >me, that is one line that I do not think has seen any >type of passenger special in a long, long time! Anyone >know for sure? It may even be back to regular PRR >pass. service, if so were looking at about 40 years! >Mike > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience >http://launch.yahoo.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Broadway Limited-Round Robn Guys, Last year I offered to have a round robin viewng of a video of that old Hollywood production "The Broadway Limited". So far I would guess it has seen about 25,000 miles of travel around the US from coast to coast and from the northern boarder to the southern boarder. All has gone smoothly up til now. I Thank you all for making this work. Only a few more people on the list needs to receive it for their viewing pleasure. Would anyone know exactly where the video is at this moment? Personally I know where it should be but there is a slight possibilty it is in someone elses video collection by mistake. If someone here happens to have it, PLEASE, drop me an email. Thanks, Gary ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pittsburgh &Ohio Central fantrip on the old Chartiers Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:38:10 -0500 I may have missed it, but is there details on this fantrip? -----Original Message----- From: dfc PRR 7002 [mailto:prr7002@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 4:46 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Pittsburgh &Ohio Central fantrip on the old Chartiers Branch The word at the trolley museum (co-hosts of the excursions) is almost 50 years. DF Cramer >From: m repka >To: PRR-Talk >Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh &Ohio Central fantrip on the old Chartiers Branch >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:00:15 -0700 (PDT) > >With a upcoming fantrip on the ex PRR, ex PC, ex CR, >ex PIR, now P&OC Chartiers Branch, the idea came to >me, that is one line that I do not think has seen any >type of passenger special in a long, long time! Anyone >know for sure? It may even be back to regular PRR >pass. service, if so were looking at about 40 years! >Mike > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience >http://launch.yahoo.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 18:44:21 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: [PRR] Enola Yard The June, 2002 issue of "Trains" magazine has an extensive article on RR yards and their importance. The fold-out is a November 15, 1929 blueprint diagram of Enola that offers great detail even down to showing how many 45' cars fit on each track! As many of us visit Enola when attending the PRRT&HS National meet, this diagram offers those of us not fortunate enough to see Enola in its glory a taste of "what was'. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rowilki@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 23:12:05 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: NYC Rockport yard While driving past the former NYC Rockport yard in rush hour traffic todayI noticed what looked like several PRR colored passenger cars in the yard. I wasn't able to slow down to take a good look. Just want to pass this on to the list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "dfc PRR 7002" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pittsburgh &Ohio Central fantrip on the old Chartiers B Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 05:51:27 -0400 >From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" >I may have missed it, but is there details on this fantrip? http://www.ohiocentralrr.com/trolley/index.html Enjoy a train ride over a former PRR branch that winds along the Chartiers Creek Valley. This line has not seen a passenger train on it since the 1950's. The Pennsylvania Trolley Museum and the Ohio Central Railroad are offering 3 fun filled days of excursions over this very scenic and wonderfully historic railroad line. All excursions will leave at the East Main Street crossing in downtown Carnegie, PA and take you to the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum in Washington, PA. Times and schedules are as follows: August 3 & 4, 2002 Depart Carnegie 10 am Arrive Arden 12 noon Lunch & layover at Pennsylvania Trolley Museum for 2 ½" hours. Depart Arden 2:30 pm Arrive Carnegie 4:30 pm Ticket prices for August 3, 4, box lunch included; Adults $35.00 Children $30.00 August 10, 2002 Dp Carnegie 9am Ar Arden 11am Layover at Pennsylvania Trolley Museum & Washington County Fair Grounds for 4 hours. Dp Arden 3pm Ar Carnegie 5pm Ticket price; includes County Fair admission; Adults $35.00 Children $30.00 DF Cramer _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RStein1686@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:09:14 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Days at Strasburg Museum June 1, 2 --part1_45.1773d410.2a13a9ea_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw an entry in the travel section of the Phila Inquirer this past Sunday describing a Pennsy celebration at the RR museum on 6/1, 6/2. Lectures, exhibits, etc. Does anyone have more info? Ron Stein --part1_45.1773d410.2a13a9ea_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw an entry in the travel section of the Phila Inquirer this past Sunday describing a Pennsy celebration at the RR museum on 6/1, 6/2.
Lectures, exhibits, etc.
Does anyone have more info?
                  Ron Stein --part1_45.1773d410.2a13a9ea_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tom Mahon Subject: [PRR] PRR Passenger Car Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:52:45 -0400 In line with an earlier post, as I was going from Rt 15 to I-84 in Hartford, I saw a passenger car with PRR marking and the name Greenwich Harbor sitting on a siding in the Connecticut Produce Terminal (sic). Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Days at Strasburg Museum June 1, 2 Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:59:47 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1FC10.64852C10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" PRR Days at the rail museum is sponsored by The Philadelphia Chapter and North-Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS. Art displays, model displays, Talks by PRR veterans, PRR films. Chris Chany ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1FC10.64852C10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRR Days at the rail museum is sponsored by The Philadelphia Chapter and North-Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS.  Art displays, model displays, Talks by PRR veterans,  PRR films.
 
Chris Chany
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1FC10.64852C10-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:12:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Days at Strasburg Museum June 1, 2 From: Jerry Britton On 5/15/02 8:59 AM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > PRR Days at the rail museum is sponsored by The Philadelphia Chapter and > North-Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS. Art displays, model displays, Talks by > PRR veterans, PRR films. > "Sponsored by" is an incorrect term, actually. The museum has many "___ Days" events. "PRR Days" is one of them. The Philadelphia Chapter and, at times, the Northern Central Chapter, are "participants". The event allows chapter members to visit the museum in numbers, and the events the chapter holds there helps draw others to the museum. Overall, however, it is the museum running the event. Yes, models, art, etc., all on display. This event was listed many months ago on the Timetable of Keystone Crossings, where I try to list as many relevant events as possible... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.ws4d You can also visit the museum's web site for more details... http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/index.shtml ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 06:59:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Sullivan Subject: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? Was perusing the new offerings on George Elwood's great site - my favorite - and found this: An "Unknown" Observation car, #820. I saw the first pic and thought "huh, that's interesting... seems there's trainphone antennae on the car"... then the SECOND pic really caught my attention... see if you can figure out why :) http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820abp.jpg http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820bbp.jpg Anyone have any info on what car this actually is, where it came from, how it ended up red and orange in Fort Worth, TX? What fun this treasure hunt is!! Ben Sullivan PRRT&HS 6998 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:14:55 -0400 Ben Not a train phone antenna but an antenna for listening to the radio while on a moving train!! I know its not the Tower View (at Strasburg) and I believe the Metropolitan View is still in PRR paint. So it's not a Broadway Obs. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Benjamin Sullivan [mailto:cpl_clegg@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:59 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? Was perusing the new offerings on George Elwood's great site - my favorite - and found this: An "Unknown" Observation car, #820. I saw the first pic and thought "huh, that's interesting... seems there's trainphone antennae on the car"... then the SECOND pic really caught my attention... see if you can figure out why :) http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820abp.jpg http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820bbp.jpg Anyone have any info on what car this actually is, where it came from, how it ended up red and orange in Fort Worth, TX? What fun this treasure hunt is!! Ben Sullivan PRRT&HS 6998 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:43:19 -0400 Listers, My mistake: I meant Mountain View is still in PRR paint. Chris -----Original Message----- From: Chany, Christopher Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:15 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: RE: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? Ben Not a train phone antenna but an antenna for listening to the radio while on a moving train!! I know its not the Tower View (at Strasburg) and I believe the Metropolitan View is still in PRR paint. So it's not a Broadway Obs. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Benjamin Sullivan [mailto:cpl_clegg@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:59 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? Was perusing the new offerings on George Elwood's great site - my favorite - and found this: An "Unknown" Observation car, #820. I saw the first pic and thought "huh, that's interesting... seems there's trainphone antennae on the car"... then the SECOND pic really caught my attention... see if you can figure out why :) http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820abp.jpg http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820bbp.jpg Anyone have any info on what car this actually is, where it came from, how it ended up red and orange in Fort Worth, TX? What fun this treasure hunt is!! Ben Sullivan PRRT&HS 6998 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 11:18:38 -0400 From: "David Luciano" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Days at Strasburg Museum June 1, 2 Also, Strasburg Model Railroad Club will be there displaying their 20' x 100' Ho scale operating model of Strasburg Railroad & Railroad Musuem of Pennsylvania. Dave Luciano Strasburg Model Railroad Club www.trainweb.org/smrc ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: RStein1686@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:09:14 EDT >I saw an entry in the travel section of the Phila Inquirer this past Sunday >describing a Pennsy celebration at the RR museum on 6/1, 6/2. >Lectures, exhibits, etc. >Does anyone have more info? > Ron Stein > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:45:46 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Modernized PB70 (FOM) cars Hello all, A few years ago we touched on a question I had regarding modernized combines. A photograph on page 9 of the Octoraro Branch supplement of the Highline shows what appears to be a PB70F in FOM paint on the Octoraro Branch in 1944. Can anyone tell me the number of the car in the photo? #5101 would be consistent with the PB70F (5100-5112). NKP is releasing a PB70D kit in HO. I picked up a handout from NKP at the PRRT&HS convention and their PB70D appears to have 5 equal size large windows, plus the lavatory window. The side elevation of the PB70D from Rob's site has 10 small windows plus the lav, as does the PB70DR and PB70E. Were these cars converted at some point to the wider "picture window" style? The PB70F has four large windows, and a small window in addition to the lav, much as the photo from the Highline. Thus, the picture windows may have been part of the rebuild program prior to 1944 (perhaps in 1938-1939 for the FOM program?). Since Middle Division is supposedly releasing FOM decals in the next couple of months, I'm looking forward to combining these with the PB70D from NKP as some of these cars were painted FOM as well! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Enola Yard Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:06:36 -0400 Please pass the information on to others who quarrel over Pennsy's greatness. Trains Magazine could have picked any railroad who had hump yards to do their story(150plus), they chose PRR. They could have chose any other hump yard for the front photo, they chose PRR. Case in point! Greg Vlassopoulos ----- Original Message ----- From: "prrbill" To: "PRR-FAX" ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 6:44 PM Subject: [PRR] Enola Yard > The June, 2002 issue of "Trains" magazine has an extensive article on RR > yards and their importance. The fold-out is a November 15, 1929 > blueprint diagram of Enola that offers great detail even down to showing > how many 45' cars fit on each track! As many of us visit Enola when > attending the PRRT&HS National meet, this diagram offers those of us not > fortunate enough to see Enola in its glory a taste of "what was'. > > Bill Morlitz > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Days at Strasburg Museum June 1, 2 Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:09:04 -0400 The Philadelphia holds their June meeting on Pennsy Days. The meeting has many events, slide shows, etc. If intereseted contact me off list and I can forward info to you. Greg Vlassopoulos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Chany, Christopher" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Days at Strasburg Museum June 1, 2 > On 5/15/02 8:59 AM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > > > PRR Days at the rail museum is sponsored by The Philadelphia Chapter and > > North-Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS. Art displays, model displays, Talks by > > PRR veterans, PRR films. > > > "Sponsored by" is an incorrect term, actually. > > The museum has many "___ Days" events. "PRR Days" is one of them. The > Philadelphia Chapter and, at times, the Northern Central Chapter, are > "participants". > > The event allows chapter members to visit the museum in numbers, and the > events the chapter holds there helps draw others to the museum. Overall, > however, it is the museum running the event. > > Yes, models, art, etc., all on display. > > This event was listed many months ago on the Timetable of Keystone > Crossings, where I try to list as many relevant events as possible... > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.ws4d > > You can also visit the museum's web site for more details... > > http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/index.shtml > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:14:02 -0400 looks like a car from the N & W Powhatan. They had train phones on them. Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:43 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? > Listers, > > My mistake: I meant Mountain View is still in PRR paint. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chany, Christopher > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:15 AM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: RE: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? > > > Ben > > Not a train phone antenna but an antenna for listening to the radio while on > a moving train!! I know its not the Tower View (at Strasburg) and I believe > the Metropolitan View is still in PRR paint. So it's not a Broadway Obs. > > Chris Chany > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Benjamin Sullivan [mailto:cpl_clegg@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:59 AM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? > > > Was perusing the new offerings on George Elwood's great site - my favorite - > and found this: An "Unknown" Observation car, #820. I saw the first pic and > thought "huh, that's interesting... seems there's trainphone antennae on the > car"... then the SECOND pic really caught my attention... see if you can > figure > out why :) > > http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820abp.jpg > http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820bbp.jpg > > Anyone have any info on what car this actually is, where it came from, how > it > ended up red and orange in Fort Worth, TX? > > What fun this treasure hunt is!! > > Ben Sullivan > PRRT&HS 6998 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:24:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] RE Some interesting pics --part1_6f.2782c1bd.2a13e5d6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The car is a coach observation probably used on the Jeffersonian or Trail Blazer. Car has too many windows to be a Sleeper Obs --part1_6f.2782c1bd.2a13e5d6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The car is a coach observation probably used on the Jeffersonian or Trail Blazer.   Car has too many windows to be a Sleeper Obs --part1_6f.2782c1bd.2a13e5d6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Garry Spear Subject: RE: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:37:15 -0400 NP! The car is the former PRR GEORGE BROOKE ROBERTS. It is owned by Southwestern businessman who likes the SP. I was in the car about 5 years ago. Garry Spear -----Original Message----- From: Benjamin Sullivan [SMTP:cpl_clegg@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:59 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? Was perusing the new offerings on George Elwood's great site - my favorite - and found this: An "Unknown" Observation car, #820. I saw the first pic and thought "huh, that's interesting... seems there's trainphone antennae on the car"... then the SECOND pic really caught my attention... see if you can figure out why :) http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820abp.jpg http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820bbp.jpg Anyone have any info on what car this actually is, where it came from, how it ended up red and orange in Fort Worth, TX? What fun this treasure hunt is!! Ben Sullivan PRRT&HS 6998 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andrew harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Days at Strasburg Museum June 1, 2 Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:36:14 -0400 >I saw an entry in the travel section of the Phila Inquirer this past Sunday >describing a Pennsy celebration at the RR museum on 6/1, 6/2. >Lectures, exhibits, etc. >Does anyone have more info? > I heard about it, too. I heard they will have all sorts of things going on, including a railroad art exhibition, with the artists attending (guess the sponsoring chapters set aside their standards to make that happen). I just might drive up there to see some train paintings. And get a sandwich at Izod's, or Jacoob's, or whatever that place is next to the hobby shop down the street from the museum. Andrew Harmantas, SPF from near C&O Milepost FM Zero. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Garry Spear Subject: RE: [PRR] RE Some interesting pics Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:47:27 -0400 Not a coach! A PRR class POS211 Observation; President series. See Rob's passageway side: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=pos211_pw_rev.gif&sel=&sz=sm&fr=GS See the car: http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820abp.jpg The windows in the back of the car are the lounge. Garry Spear -----Original Message----- From: WAMMP236@aol.com [SMTP:WAMMP236@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:25 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] RE Some interesting pics The car is a coach observation probably used on the Jeffersonian or Trail Blazer. Car has too many windows to be a Sleeper Obs << File: ATT00001.htm >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:44:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? From: Jerry Britton On 5/15/02 12:37 PM, Garry Spear (gspear01@erols.com) wrote: > NP! > > The car is the former PRR GEORGE BROOKE ROBERTS. It is owned by > Southwestern businessman who likes the SP. I was in the car about 5 years > ago. Gary's post came just as I was about to post the following: IF the original window arrangement is in place, the car cannot be any of the POC (coach observation) models. Further, it only matches the POS21 and POS211 sides. The POS21 are the PS Plan 4133 cars built for the Broadway Limited. Both are accounted for...one at Strasburg and the other privately owned. The POS211 are the PS Plan 4134 cars built for the other blue ribbon trains (seven of them). Now, having read Gary's lead, the car is indeed a POS211, car number 8422, built in lot 6792. It had 41-NP-11 trucks, was converted to Parlor Car #7158 in November 1957 and back to a sleeper in June 1958. (The car name is available on Microscale set MS 60-893.) > > Garry Spear > > -----Original Message----- > From: Benjamin Sullivan [SMTP:cpl_clegg@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:59 AM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] some interesting pics - comments??? > > Was perusing the new offerings on George Elwood's great site - my favorite > - > and found this: An "Unknown" Observation car, #820. I saw the first pic and > thought "huh, that's interesting... seems there's trainphone antennae on > the > car"... then the SECOND pic really caught my attention... see if you can > figure > out why :) > > http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820abp.jpg > http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820bbp.jpg > > Anyone have any info on what car this actually is, where it came from, how > it > ended up red and orange in Fort Worth, TX? > > What fun this treasure hunt is!! > > Ben Sullivan > PRRT&HS 6998 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Days at Strasburg Museum June 1, 2 Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:47:08 -0400 Get a sandwich at The Strasburg General Store on the square. The best!!! Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: andrew harmantas [mailto:frisco482@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:36 PM To: RStein1686@aol.com; PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Days at Strasburg Museum June 1, 2 >I saw an entry in the travel section of the Phila Inquirer this past Sunday >describing a Pennsy celebration at the RR museum on 6/1, 6/2. >Lectures, exhibits, etc. >Does anyone have more info? > I heard about it, too. I heard they will have all sorts of things going on, including a railroad art exhibition, with the artists attending (guess the sponsoring chapters set aside their standards to make that happen). I just might drive up there to see some train paintings. And get a sandwich at Izod's, or Jacoob's, or whatever that place is next to the hobby shop down the street from the museum. Andrew Harmantas, SPF from near C&O Milepost FM Zero. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE Some interesting pics Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:48:53 -0400 OK, Now what trains were President series obs on. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Garry Spear [mailto:gspear01@erols.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:47 PM To: 'WAMMP236@aol.com'; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] RE Some interesting pics Not a coach! A PRR class POS211 Observation; President series. See Rob's passageway side: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=pos211_pw_rev.gif&sel= &sz=sm&fr=GS See the car: http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/misc-u/unk-o820abp.jpg The windows in the back of the car are the lounge. Garry Spear -----Original Message----- From: WAMMP236@aol.com [SMTP:WAMMP236@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:25 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] RE Some interesting pics The car is a coach observation probably used on the Jeffersonian or Trail Blazer. Car has too many windows to be a Sleeper Obs << File: ATT00001.htm >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:12:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] RE Some interesting pics From: Jerry Britton On 5/15/02 12:48 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > OK, Now what trains were President series obs on. > As of 1954, the POS211 cars were assigned as follows: Cincinnati Limited "S. Rea" and "W. W. Atterbury" "Spirit of St. Louis" "Alex. J. Cassatt", "James McCrea" and "Frank Thomson" Liberty Limited "George Brooke Roberts" and "Thomas Alexander Scott" The names of the cars for the first two trains come from the New York Division's Makeup of Trains book from April 1954. The Liberty Limited assignments are by process of elimination, the last two cars remaining. The "Spirit of St. Louis" required three cars for protection due to the length of the run. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Days at Strasburg Museum June 1, 2 Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:41:05 -0400 The restaurant is called Isaac's. Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "andrew harmantas" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Days at Strasburg Museum June 1, 2 > > >I saw an entry in the travel section of the Phila Inquirer this past Sunday > >describing a Pennsy celebration at the RR museum on 6/1, 6/2. > >Lectures, exhibits, etc. > >Does anyone have more info? > > > > I heard about it, too. I heard they will have all sorts of things going on, > including a railroad art exhibition, with the artists attending (guess the > sponsoring chapters set aside their standards to make that happen). I just > might drive up there to see some train paintings. And get a sandwich at > Izod's, or Jacoob's, or whatever that place is next to the hobby shop down > the street from the museum. > > Andrew Harmantas, SPF from near C&O Milepost FM Zero. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] GG1 on the Strasburg RR Hello List, Speaking of Strasburg, Do any of you guys remember when a PC GG1 broke down on the mainline near Harrisburg and the Strasburg Railroad sent out a locomotive to rescue her, than towed the G the the Strasburg Shop to fix her. I remember seeing photos in Trains Magazine of the GG1 being towed by a little tiny switcher. I think it happen in the mid 1970s. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:35:47 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh to Altoona July trip For those in the Pittsburgh area, The LCCA (Lionel Collector's Club of America), has a July Pittsburgh to Altoona area round trip (aboard Amtrak) planned for July 22nd at a cost of $199.00. The trip includes 2 hour visits to the Portage RR, Horseshoe Curve and the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona. Lunch is included. If interested, please contact, Louie Caponi, at . Louie is an officer of LCCA and tell him you're a member of PRR-Fax and/or PRR-Talk. Knowing Louie, the trip will be a lot of fun for PRR fans. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BNdave1@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:55:42 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 on the Strasburg RR In a message dated 5/15/02 7:01:53 PM Central Daylight Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: << Speaking of Strasburg, Do any of you guys remember when a PC GG1 broke down on the mainline near Harrisburg and the Strasburg Railroad sent out a locomotive to rescue her, than towed the G the the Strasburg Shop to fix her. I remember seeing photos in Trains Magazine of the GG1 being towed by a little tiny switcher. I think it happen in the mid 1970s. >> Zoo, Speaking of fixing a GG1, somebody is selling an engineering drawing of a GG1 on ebay at item number 2102957824. The drawing looks and sounds pretty complicated. Way over my head anyway. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 21:00:43 -0400 From: "H.&S." Subject: [PRR] Speaking of post WWII passenger cars... Hi all.... Since we're talking about the PS21 and stuff....are there any other post WWII cars that are saved....I heard there is a twin unit diner out there somewhere used as display cars. Have any of the 4-4-2,10-6 or Harbor series cars survived? Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BNdave1@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:55:42 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] GG1 on the Strasburg RR In a message dated 5/15/02 7:01:53 PM Central Daylight Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: << Speaking of Strasburg, Do any of you guys remember when a PC GG1 broke down on the mainline near Harrisburg and the Strasburg Railroad sent out a locomotive to rescue her, than towed the G the the Strasburg Shop to fix her. I remember seeing photos in Trains Magazine of the GG1 being towed by a little tiny switcher. I think it happen in the mid 1970s. >> Zoo, Speaking of fixing a GG1, somebody is selling an engineering drawing of a GG1 on ebay at item number 2102957824. The drawing looks and sounds pretty complicated. Way over my head anyway. Dave ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Janet Adams Stewart Watson Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:59:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] GG1 on the Strasburg RR Talk to Dave Swee BNdave1@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 5/15/02 7:01:53 PM Central Daylight Time, >zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: > ><< Speaking of Strasburg, Do any of you guys remember when a PC GG1 > broke down on the mainline near Harrisburg and the Strasburg Railroad > sent out a locomotive to rescue her, than towed the G the the Strasburg > Shop to fix her. > I remember seeing photos in Trains Magazine of the GG1 being towed > by a little tiny switcher. I think it happen in the mid 1970s. >> > >Zoo, >Speaking of fixing a GG1, somebody is selling an engineering drawing of a GG1 >on ebay at item number 2102957824. The drawing looks and sounds pretty >complicated. Way over my head anyway. > Dave > > > > >"PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. > >To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = >PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:27:23 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Texas Eagle Decals From: Jerry Britton Folks, I'm looking for decals for many of the PRR cars used in interchange service. I need them in N scale, so Microscale came to mind, but I can't find what I need in their database. I need to decal four PS106 (Plan 9008) cars for the Texas Eagle. I will also need Texas Special decals for either a PRR 10-6 or else a Katy or Frisco 14-4. By the way, this month Microscale has released several new sets of Pennsy decals in both HO and N scale. There are several box car sets and a new cabin car set. Enjoy! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] DS-4-4-1000 again Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:36:47 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C1FCF7.DF5D4D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list: I had posted a message a few days ago about two specific DS-4-4-1000 = units and their assignments. I thank everyone who replied. I have one more request concerning this topic. Can anyone tell me what = units were assigned to the Philadelphia area? I am specifically = interested in the Schuylkill Div. =20 The reason why I ask, is that I just purchased a Stewart HO model of a = PRR unit. I plan to model part of the Schuylkill branch on my = Pottsville area layout. I am thinking of renumbering the model to match = a unit that could have been used on this branch. =20 Maybe, I'm being to picky:-) Thanks, Jeff Smith Manheim, PA ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C1FCF7.DF5D4D40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear list:
 
I had posted a message a few days ago = about two=20 specific DS-4-4-1000 units and their assignments.  I thank everyone = who=20 replied.
 
I have one more request concerning this = topic.  Can anyone tell me what units were assigned to the = Philadelphia=20 area?  I am specifically interested in the Schuylkill Div. =20
 
The reason why I ask, is that I just = purchased a=20 Stewart HO model of a PRR unit.  I plan to model part of the=20 Schuylkill branch on my Pottsville area layout.  I am thinking of=20 renumbering the model to match a unit that could have been used on this=20 branch. 
 
Maybe, I'm being to = picky:-)
 
Thanks,
 
Jeff Smith
Manheim, PA
------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C1FCF7.DF5D4D40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Texas Eagle Decals Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:49:36 -0400 Jerry, Tom Stolte of Oddballs Decals sells Missouri Pacific passenger car decals, possibly these might be in his group for them. His website is http://www.oddballsdecals.com He also has a few very nice PRR freight car decal sets in N, HO, and O. You might want to become a dealer for him. I just looked at his site and he will be on vacation effective May 20, so you might want to contact him quickly. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 2:27 PM Subject: [PRR] Texas Eagle Decals > Folks, I'm looking for decals for many of the PRR cars used in interchange > service. I need them in N scale, so Microscale came to mind, but I can't > find what I need in their database. > > I need to decal four PS106 (Plan 9008) cars for the Texas Eagle. > > I will also need Texas Special decals for either a PRR 10-6 or else a Katy > or Frisco 14-4. > > By the way, this month Microscale has released several new sets of Pennsy > decals in both HO and N scale. There are several box car sets and a new > cabin car set. Enjoy! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AHARTPRR137@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 22:06:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DS-4-4-1000 again --part1_e4.27baf1f1.2a15bf92_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/16/02 4:45:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stacktalk@dejazzd.com writes: > Dear list: > > I had posted a message a few days ago about two specific DS-4-4-1000 units > and their assignments. I thank everyone who replied. > > I have one more request concerning this topic. Can anyone tell me what > units were assigned to the Philadelphia area? I am specifically interested > in the Schuylkill Div. > > The reason why I ask, is that I just purchased a Stewart HO model of a PRR > unit. I plan to model part of the Schuylkill branch on my Pottsville area > layout. I am thinking of renumbering the model to match a unit that could > have been used on this branch. > > Maybe, I'm being to picky:-) > > Thanks, > > Jeff Smith > Manheim, PA > Hi Jeff and others, Several years ago I bought some photos which were taken on the Schuylkill Valley Div. in 1952 at a train show. In the photos, the following engines are shown: BS6a (DS4-4-660) 9003, BS10a (DS4-4-1000) 5562, G5s 3108, and L1s 1299 and 1376. I hope this helps. Andy Hart, PRRT&HS 92 --part1_e4.27baf1f1.2a15bf92_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/16/02 4:45:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stacktalk@dejazzd.com writes:


Dear list:

I had posted a message a few days ago about two specific DS-4-4-1000 units and their assignments.  I thank everyone who replied.

I have one more request concerning this topic.  Can anyone tell me what units were assigned to the Philadelphia area?  I am specifically interested in the Schuylkill Div. 

The reason why I ask, is that I just purchased a Stewart HO model of a PRR unit.  I plan to model part of the Schuylkill branch on my Pottsville area layout.  I am thinking of renumbering the model to match a unit that could have been used on this branch. 

Maybe, I'm being to picky:-)

Thanks,

Jeff Smith
Manheim, PA


Hi Jeff and others,

Several years ago I bought some photos which were taken on the Schuylkill Valley Div. in 1952 at a train show.

In the photos, the following engines are shown:  BS6a (DS4-4-660) 9003, BS10a
(DS4-4-1000) 5562, G5s 3108, and L1s 1299 and 1376.

I hope this helps.

Andy Hart, PRRT&HS 92 --part1_e4.27baf1f1.2a15bf92_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "James Taverna" Subject: [PRR] PRR H-35 Hoppers - Door Actuating Mechanism Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:46:47 -0400 Gentlemen/Ladies: I model in O scale and I have a Parri H-35 hopper that needs to have the hopper door actuating mechanism added. This came to my attention as I looked at the car's paint scheme and noticed that there was some sort of instructions on the side of the hoppers that indicated there was a shaft to be rotated to open and close the doors. I have not been able to find any detail on this mechanism. I also noticed the same mechanism added to an H-21e in a photo I picked up at the recent annual meeting. I have looked in the 1946b Car builders Cyc but apparently no one was making this type of mechanism at that time. Does any one have any information on this type of door system and a source of drawings or photos so I can make a model of it. Thanks, Jim Taverna _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:24:29 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Budd 21 Roomette Cars From: Jerry Britton Question on the Budd 21 roomette cars...class PS21B... One photo, in Blardone and Tilp's passenger car book from the PRRT&HS, shows this car with a fluted roof but an "overall" smooth side. I say "overall" in that it was not fluted as most Budd cars were. However, it was not truly smooth either. It's almost as if the band where the windows are is recessed from the upper and lower sides of the car. Or the uppers/lowers project out. The lower sides also have a couple of "grooves" in them, but not what I would consider flutes. Does anyone have any dimensional data on these sides? Reason I ask, is that I need to build some PS21B's in N scale. Fluting on car sides is not yet a reality in N scale, but then again, these aren't really flutes. I am pondering what would make a realistic tyle of roof, > including a pre-war style with raised seams. > Looks like I'll have to delve into this more. The roof I had in mind is from Kato, from their recently released Budd Corrugated Side cars. The roofs are available as parts. So the questions are: Did Kato do an accurate Budd roof, and is it the correct style of Budd roof for my era? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Budd 21 Roomette Cars Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:30:08 +0000 As I recall fluted side and roofs were an invelardone and Tilp's passenger car book from the PRRT&HS, shows