From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] Walthers new gon Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:12:36 -0500 Gentlemen, I bought a pair of those new gons at a recent trainshow. Now granted, not exactly "Pennsy info", but I have discovered a few items which I feel I should bring to the groups attention. 1. The kits came rtr. All included parts were attached, even the weight between the center sill and floor was painted and in place. 2. The spue which has the grab irons was missing on both. (not a big deal, as I intended to replace with A-Line preformed anyway) 3. The cars sit a half knuckle high. I replaced the supplied McHenry with KD #5 and discovered this height difference. The cars sit lower than Tichies War Emergency gon, so I got to believe the problem exists in the coupler pocket itself. BUT the pocket's location "looks" fine when looking at the endsill. Anyone else make these same "discoveries? IMHO, a pretty good car (at least it appears nice), but the problem with mismatched coupler heights will lead to obvious difficulties down the road. Not something I would have expected from a car costing around $35, if you include the containers. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:33:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers new gon Did I miss a CK version? We ordered in the PRR cars,but they came with the modern herald. Nice color,though. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] E Bay listing Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:38:08 +0000 This listing on E bay is for a PFM K4. It is under Pennsylvania on the HO board. Since it is mislabeled the current price is $24.95! Thought somebody might want to bid on this. PENNSYLVANIA HO BY ATLAS #462 Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:29:02 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers new gon Walt sez: >3. The cars sit a half knuckle high. I replaced the supplied McHenry with KD >#5 and discovered this height difference. The cars sit lower than Tichies >War Emergency gon, so I got to believe the problem exists in the coupler >pocket itself. BUT the pocket's location "looks" fine when looking at the >endsill. The cars are half a knuckle high 'cause Walthers set the bolsters too high. You need to trim some off the bolsters, but then the wheels foul the floor braces so you'll need to trim them too...nice car, but it could have been better with just a little more QC on Walthers part...for once the paint looks good too. And Bob, no CK version yet of the G25...it would be very appropriate though! One thing to recognize is that this wasn't a major car class...so for my fleet of 250 PRR cars, I need 2 (and for that, I'll stick to the one piece Westerfield). Far more common were GS (Bowser), GR, GRa classes with G22 and G27 also topping G25 numbers (at least in the 40s). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Walthers new gon Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:22:22 -0500 The car comes with formed metal grabs! They should be in the bag with the horn hooks! Also, as far as I know, the G25's weren't used by the PRR in container service... Walthers slapped a modified G22 paint scheme on the G25 (the car number is correct for a G25 but the container load limit lettering should only be on a G22.) as the G22 fits in better with their container marketing plan! The G22 and G25 designs are similar so as long as you're willing to overlook the differences... I really wish Walthers would have put a more correct paint job on the cars and not tried to force the container issue! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of WaltP > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:13 AM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Walthers new gon > > > Gentlemen, > I bought a pair of those new gons at a recent trainshow. Now granted, not > exactly "Pennsy info", but I have discovered a few items which I feel I > should bring to the groups attention. > > 1. The kits came rtr. All included parts were attached, even the weight > between the center sill and floor was painted and in place. > 2. The spue which has the grab irons was missing on both. (not a big deal, > as I intended to replace with A-Line preformed anyway) > 3. The cars sit a half knuckle high. I replaced the supplied > McHenry with KD > #5 and discovered this height difference. The cars sit lower than Tichies > War Emergency gon, so I got to believe the problem exists in the coupler > pocket itself. BUT the pocket's location "looks" fine when looking at the > endsill. > > Anyone else make these same "discoveries? IMHO, a pretty good car > (at least > it appears nice), but the problem with mismatched coupler heights > will lead > to obvious difficulties down the road. Not something I would have expected > from a car costing around $35, if you include the containers. > > Walt Prusick > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:07:28 -0500 Guys, Actually I bought two decorated with the shadow keystone, and soaked them in brake fluid for a day. That darned paint is tough! Then I shaved off the plastic stirrup steps and replaced them with A-Line preformed. Afterall, how long do you think those plastic "scale" steps will survive? Butter (IMHO) to loose them right from the get-go. As to the coupler height, as KD #5 sit about 1/3 of a knuckle high, which KD coupler made has a shank almost even with the knuckle? I don't want to go and hack the bolster as I will probably create interference between the wheel tread and car floor. BTW, There were NO grab irons included, either plastic or wire. Guess I'll stop my acquisition at two. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:32:52 -0600 One of the new KD's (20 or 30) series ought to solve the coupler problem, if you don't want to modifiy the bolster and wheels. -----Original Message----- From: WaltP [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:07 AM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) Guys, Actually I bought two decorated with the shadow keystone, and soaked them in brake fluid for a day. That darned paint is tough! Then I shaved off the plastic stirrup steps and replaced them with A-Line preformed. Afterall, how long do you think those plastic "scale" steps will survive? Butter (IMHO) to loose them right from the get-go. As to the coupler height, as KD #5 sit about 1/3 of a knuckle high, which KD coupler made has a shank almost even with the knuckle? I don't want to go and hack the bolster as I will probably create interference between the wheel tread and car floor. BTW, There were NO grab irons included, either plastic or wire. Guess I'll stop my acquisition at two. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:11:08 -0000 Don't use 20 or 30 series use 40's as they have a metal shaft and therefore do not bend with time. I am replacing them slowly having already replaced my Bachmann E-Z couplers Patrick Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "'WaltP'" ; Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:32 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) > One of the new KD's (20 or 30) series ought to solve the coupler problem, if > you don't want to modifiy the bolster and wheels. > > -----Original Message----- > From: WaltP [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:07 AM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) > > > Guys, > Actually I bought two decorated with the shadow keystone, and soaked them in > brake fluid for a day. That darned paint is tough! Then I shaved off the > plastic stirrup steps and replaced them with A-Line preformed. Afterall, how > long do you think those plastic "scale" steps will survive? Butter (IMHO) to > loose them right from the get-go. > > As to the coupler height, as KD #5 sit about 1/3 of a knuckle high, which KD > coupler made has a shank almost even with the knuckle? I don't want to go > and hack the bolster as I will probably create interference between the > wheel tread and car floor. > > BTW, There were NO grab irons included, either plastic or wire. > > Guess I'll stop my acquisition at two. > > Walt Prusick > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:17:15 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Kadee (was: Walthers gon part 2) I would suggest the 40 series. All the same variations are available with the same numbers as the 30s and 20s. They all have the same shank shape, but the 40s are metal, like the #5. As a result, there is no #48 - it would be they same as a #5. BTW did you ever notice that Kadee used the same numbering convention on the new scale size coupler - its a #58. That seems to imply the coming of a whole 50s series with scale size heads and all the variations of shank height and length :-)) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Cadwell, Marvin L" wrote: > One of the new KD's (20 or 30) series ought to solve the coupler problem, if > you don't want to modifiy the bolster and wheels. > > -----Original Message----- > From: WaltP [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:07 AM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) > > Guys, > Actually I bought two decorated with the shadow keystone, and soaked them in > brake fluid for a day. That darned paint is tough! Then I shaved off the > plastic stirrup steps and replaced them with A-Line preformed. Afterall, how > long do you think those plastic "scale" steps will survive? Butter (IMHO) to > loose them right from the get-go. > > As to the coupler height, as KD #5 sit about 1/3 of a knuckle high, which KD > coupler made has a shank almost even with the knuckle? I don't want to go > and hack the bolster as I will probably create interference between the > wheel tread and car floor. > > BTW, There were NO grab irons included, either plastic or wire. > > Guess I'll stop my acquisition at two. > > Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: [PRR] RE: Kadee (was: Walthers gon part 2) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:39:11 -0600 Let's hope your analysis of KD's numbering system is correct! -----Original Message----- From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:17 PM To: Cadwell, Marvin L Cc: 'WaltP'; PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Kadee (was: Walthers gon part 2) I would suggest the 40 series. All the same variations are available with the same numbers as the 30s and 20s. They all have the same shank shape, but the 40s are metal, like the #5. As a result, there is no #48 - it would be they same as a #5. BTW did you ever notice that Kadee used the same numbering convention on the new scale size coupler - its a #58. That seems to imply the coming of a whole 50s series with scale size heads and all the variations of shank height and length :-)) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Cadwell, Marvin L" wrote: > One of the new KD's (20 or 30) series ought to solve the coupler problem, if > you don't want to modifiy the bolster and wheels. > > -----Original Message----- > From: WaltP [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:07 AM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) > > Guys, > Actually I bought two decorated with the shadow keystone, and soaked them in > brake fluid for a day. That darned paint is tough! Then I shaved off the > plastic stirrup steps and replaced them with A-Line preformed. Afterall, how > long do you think those plastic "scale" steps will survive? Butter (IMHO) to > loose them right from the get-go. > > As to the coupler height, as KD #5 sit about 1/3 of a knuckle high, which KD > coupler made has a shank almost even with the knuckle? I don't want to go > and hack the bolster as I will probably create interference between the > wheel tread and car floor. > > BTW, There were NO grab irons included, either plastic or wire. > > Guess I'll stop my acquisition at two. > > Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part2A) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:44:04 -0500 Gentelmen, DAAAA, I should have looked in my current catalog. Your responses prompted me to look that product up. Based upon your comments and their listing, a 22, 32 or a 42 will work. This has the same shank length but the coupler head is in plane with the shank (thus lowering the striking/coupler head). And if I read their chart correctly, #22 & 32 are plastic, thus I will go with a #42. Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:06:16 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New Mailing List -- Harrisburg (PA) Rail Fanning From: Jerry Britton I've just started a new mailing list for those who live around, or railfan around, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Discussion is welcome on all aspects of railroad operations within a 20 mile (or so) radius of Harrisburg, Pa. Today this is mostly Norfolk Southern and Amtrak, but it was once Penn Central, Reading, and Pennsylvania Railroad territory! To join, please visit http://lists.dsop.com There you will learn about all of our lists and simple instructions on how to participate on them. I hope you will board for the ride on this new one! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] Rubber Tired Switchers... Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:36:22 -0500 Hi all, Can anyone help me out with info on the PRR's Rubber Tired Switchers (the older style. I'm pretty sure they were classed 3/8000. About the only data I have on them is that they were built by Buckwalter circa 1912 and were originally battery powered, later converted to gasoline operation. Some info I'm looking for is: A full roster... I have a partial roster from photos: 1, 443, 444, 445, 446, 14379, 14380 I don't know if any of these were just renumberings... How many were built? When were they built (is 1912 correct?) When were they converted to gas operation? When did they lose the spoked wheels & get those fat tires? When were they scrapped? How many cars could they pull? Any other info would also be appreciated! I'm also looking for diagrams, plans or key dimensions, (length, width, height, wheelbase, etc..) I'd really like to model one, but would like to have some accurate dimensions first... I have a page on my website devoted to them. It summarizes most of what I know about them along with quite a few photos... http://prr.railfan.net/RubberTiredSwitchers.html If you can help out with exact locations or dates for any of the photos, I'd appreciate it! Thanks! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Kalmbach Blue Ribbon Fleet book Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:36:41 -0600 Frank--It is an interesting book if you are looking for a narrative of the rise and fall of Pennsy's streamliner passenger service. No complete rosters are given, but that info is available elsewhere. Some train consist info is given for specific trains on a specific day with the latest date being 12/12/67. Some color photos, most in B/W. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Wlathers EMC Railcar Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:02:02 +0000 I know the Bachman doodlebug is wrong for the PRR. How does the new Walthers EMC car stand up to scrutiny? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Wlathers EMC Railcar Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:07:04 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1C1E2.C4942F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe that it does not even come close to a PRR prototype. It is simi= lar to the Bachmann model in that it would be very hard to convert to som= ething close to the PRR doodlebugs. It would be nice for a resin producing model company to produce a resin s= hell of the Brill 250 or Brill 350, which the PRR had in numbers, that co= uld be used on the chassis of the Bachmann or Walthers gas electrics. I k= now that the lengths of the chassis may need to be shortened or lengthene= d, but the power train would be the starting point. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: ndbprr@att.net Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 11:05 AM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Wlathers EMC Railcar =20 I know the Bachman doodlebug is wrong for the PRR. How does the new Walthers EMC car stand up to scrutiny? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1C1E2.C4942F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I believe that= it does not even come close to a PRR prototype. It is similar to th= e Bachmann model in that it would be very hard to con= vert to something close to the PRR doodlebugs.
 
It would be nice for a resin producing model compa= ny to produce a resin shell of the Brill 250 or Brill 350, which the= PRR had in numbers, that could be used on the chassis of the Bachma= nn or Walthers gas electrics. I know that the lengths of t= he chassis may need to be shortened or lengthened, but the powe= r train would be the starting point.
 
Te= d Andrews
Carmel, Indiana 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: ndbprr@att.net
=
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 11:= 05 AM
To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com<= /DIV>
Subject: [PRR] Wlathers EMC = Railcar
 
I know the Bachman doodlebug is wrong for = the PRR. How
does the new Walthers EMC car stand up to scrutiny?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1C1E2.C4942F60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:48:46 EST Subject: [PRR] Kadee Sure wish that Kadee would do something for us in "O" scale - you have your choice of 1 (one) coupler - plastic or metal. The plastic one come with plastic copler pockets - the metal with metal I've found that they usually work best with the plastic ones in metal boxes and vice versa - so I mix and match - with brass and other metal cars in the mix - it does make sure that there are no car to car shorts There aren't that many of us in "O" scale, but because of the lack of any selection in shank style there are a lot of cast "dummies" - especially on passenger cars and older locos - in "O" scale (Annother good reason to make sure every care converted is coupler insulated) Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:06:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Rubber Tired Switchers... Don Ball has a photo of #446 in Baltimore, and says in "The PRR 40's and 50's" that they were built in Altoona, of course both sources could be correct if the company you mention is in Altoona. Ball's photo is not dated but it is color and, I presume, that it is post war. He mentions that big ship's wheel My question: did those big hard rubber wheels have flanges - or is the appearance of that, in the photos, just an indication of wear? Dick Ross, Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:19:08 -0500 From: Mike Calo Subject: [PRR] Pics of Union Jct tower, Baltimore Hi, list - If this is old news, please forgive me...but at the direction of Ken Meyer, who pointed me to Allen Underkofler's "Pennsylvania Pages", which had a link to the Library of Congress (got that?) I found THIS gem: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/hhhtml/hhhome.html I entered "Pennsylvania Railroad" on the KEYWORD search page and got all KINDS of great stuff.. I found a listing for the B&P Jct tower but the pics haven't been digitized yet, so I read the data sheets...and found a reference to HAER MD-50. When I entered that into the keyword search box I found some great pics and the history of the Union Junction tower at Penn Station i nBaltimore There are aerial pics of the NEC from April 1977 at this site too - enter AMTRAK in the search box. Have fun! Mike Calo Annapolis MD ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Rubber Tired Switchers... Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:05:48 -0500 Dick, At least one of the older tractors was still extant in 1965-66, parked at President St. Station in Baltimore. Supposedly it could have been started and run if both of the new tractors were out of service. That never happened while I was there.. And no, there were no flanges. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Rubber Tired Switchers... > Don Ball has a photo of #446 in Baltimore, and says in "The PRR 40's and > 50's" that they were built in Altoona, of course both sources could be > correct if the company you mention is in Altoona. Ball's photo is not dated > but it is color and, I presume, that it is post war. He mentions that big > ship's wheel > > My question: did those big hard rubber wheels have flanges - or is the > appearance of that, in the photos, just an indication of wear? > Dick Ross, > Cleveland > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 03:45:41 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] Fairbrook Branch/Bellefonte Central Just for my own curiousity I was trying to make some sense of abandoned railroad grades in the State College area. So I looked into some background as to what all to expect. Obviously there was the Bellefonte Branch to Lemont and the ex-L&T from there east to Montandon. Likewise, the Bellefonte Central from Bellefonte to State College. Going back to a thread in August of 1997(!) there was discussion of the Fairbrook Branch and the remains of the bridge just east of Tyrone. Mike Bezilla had this to say: > OK. First, I'm not sure how old this bridge is -- can't tell if it dates > from the original construction of the Fairbrook br, which was in the > 1880s. Anyway, as Dan said, this PRR branch did connect w/ the > Bellefonte Central, first near the Scotia iron ore pits. It wasn't a > true interchange, however. In the late 1920s, BFC built a new connector > further west of State College, then bought almost the entire Fairbrook, > and got trackage rights the last mile or two including over the bridge > in question, to Tyrone. The PRR continued to serve a quarry a short > distance east of the bridge, so they didn't want to sell this to the > BFC, thus the trackage rights deal. But BFC's running into Tyrone last > only c. 1929-32 or so, because the PRR refused to interchange there, > they preferred Bellefonte. http://www.prrths.com/Downloads/PRR1880.pdf notes of the Fairbrook Branch's Lewisburg and Tyrone lineage: Nov. 10, 1881 Western section of Lewisburg & Tyrone Railroad opens between Pennsylvania Furnaces and Scotia; middle section between Fairbrook and (Rising Springs?) remains partly graded but never finished. http://bellefonte.topcities.com/railroads/page3.html "pinpoints" the connection mentioned by Mike above as "just south of Waddle". http://www.bellefonte.com/BCR/timeline.html throws some extra trackage into the mix, namely an extension to Pine Grove Mills. I then went to topo maps. Terraserver seems to have a hole in coverage in the area, so topozone.com may be preferable. I have local copies of the maps from PASDA which I used. I assume the branch after crossing the bridge near Tyrone closely followed the road through Nealmont and Stover to about Eyer, then followed the marked "Old railroad grade" which goes all the way to Pennsylvania Furnace. There, the questions start. The obvious old grade continued directly north then northeast following the marked grade to Struble, but this wasn't the connection to Waddle. What was it, then? However, another branch splits off closer to direct north off this near "Tadpole Road" and that "Old Railroad Grade" seems to have been replaced by road. I assume the rail line like this road turned northeast to Scotia, where it appears one line then ran west to a grade which appears to end in a Y, the line to Waddle ran almost directly north, and another grade marked going northeast toward a sandpit and the western end of the Mt Nittany Expressway was presumably either a short branch or a mistake? Going back to Pennsylvania Furnace, at least a section of somewhich which looks like grade continuing northeast toward the village of Fairbrook is marked. Since the line to Scotia presumably did not go through Fairbrook, was this unbuilt L&T grade and "Fairbrook" referred to something else, or was this the "Juniata Branch" (or something else, in which case where was the Juniata Branch?) Final question is, where did the line to Pine Grove Mills run? -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:48:20 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Fairbrook Branch/Bellefonte Central Try getting a copy of the Story of Scotia by Harry Williams that was published by the Centre County Historical Assoc in the early 90's. It is an edited reprint of an earlier work. It has soom preety good information on the PRR-BFC connections in the Carnegie mines west of State College! Bennett Levin Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > Just for my own curiousity I was trying to make some sense of abandoned > railroad grades in the State College area. > > So I looked into some background as to what all to expect. Obviously there > was the Bellefonte Branch to Lemont and the ex-L&T from there east to > Montandon. Likewise, the Bellefonte Central from Bellefonte to State > College. > > Going back to a thread in August of 1997(!) there was discussion of the > Fairbrook Branch and the remains of the bridge just east of Tyrone. > > Mike Bezilla had this to say: > > OK. First, I'm not sure how old this bridge is -- can't tell if it dates > > from the original construction of the Fairbrook br, which was in the > > 1880s. Anyway, as Dan said, this PRR branch did connect w/ the > > Bellefonte Central, first near the Scotia iron ore pits. It wasn't a > > true interchange, however. In the late 1920s, BFC built a new connector > > further west of State College, then bought almost the entire Fairbrook, > > and got trackage rights the last mile or two including over the bridge > > in question, to Tyrone. The PRR continued to serve a quarry a short > > distance east of the bridge, so they didn't want to sell this to the > > BFC, thus the trackage rights deal. But BFC's running into Tyrone last > > only c. 1929-32 or so, because the PRR refused to interchange there, > > they preferred Bellefonte. > > http://www.prrths.com/Downloads/PRR1880.pdf notes of the Fairbrook > Branch's Lewisburg and Tyrone lineage: > Nov. 10, 1881 > Western section of Lewisburg & Tyrone Railroad opens between > Pennsylvania Furnaces and Scotia; middle section between > Fairbrook and (Rising Springs?) remains partly graded but never > finished. > > http://bellefonte.topcities.com/railroads/page3.html > "pinpoints" the connection mentioned by Mike above as "just south of > Waddle". > > http://www.bellefonte.com/BCR/timeline.html throws some extra trackage > into the mix, namely an extension to Pine Grove Mills. > > I then went to topo maps. Terraserver seems to have a hole in coverage in > the area, so topozone.com may be preferable. I have local copies of the > maps from PASDA which I used. > > I assume the branch after crossing the bridge near Tyrone closely followed > the road through Nealmont and Stover to about Eyer, then followed the > marked "Old railroad grade" which goes all the way to Pennsylvania > Furnace. There, the questions start. The obvious old grade continued > directly north then northeast following the marked grade to Struble, but > this wasn't the connection to Waddle. What was it, then? > > However, another branch splits off closer to direct north off this near > "Tadpole Road" and that "Old Railroad Grade" seems to have been replaced > by road. I assume the rail line like this road turned northeast to Scotia, > where it appears one line then ran west to a grade which appears to end in > a Y, the line to Waddle ran almost directly north, and another grade > marked going northeast toward a sandpit and the western end of the Mt > Nittany Expressway was presumably either a short branch or a mistake? > > Going back to Pennsylvania Furnace, at least a section of somewhich which > looks like grade continuing northeast toward the village of Fairbrook is > marked. Since the line to Scotia presumably did not go through Fairbrook, > was this unbuilt L&T grade and "Fairbrook" referred to something else, or > was this the "Juniata Branch" (or something else, in which case where was > the Juniata Branch?) > > Final question is, where did the line to Pine Grove Mills run? > > -D > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:09:32 -0600 From: Chuck Bowman Subject: [PRR] F7 Genesis Painting I have just completed the addition of antennas, extra grabs, uncoupling levers, lift rings, etc. to my Athearn Genesis F7 model, and plugged the hole from removal of the second horn (plus one mis-drilled antenna mount hole!). I'm looking for any advice on how to paint all of this. I previously painted the grabs by hand, which worked fine. But getting around the base of the 14 antenna posts looks to be a daunting challenge. I wish I'd painted the bases of the antenna posts prior to installation. Has anyone sprayed the roof? Thanks in advance for any advice. chuck #3756 Charles H. Bowman Phone 979-690-7095 Lah Lah Farm Fax 979-690-8069 13350 Hopes Creek Road Cell 979-587-1386 College Station TX 77845-9250 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] Life-Like USRA 0-6-0 Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:4:49 -0500

Has anyone heard if these engines are going to be out on schedule? Also, I wonder if they will get the DGLE treatment like the 2-8-8-2's and if the generator will be placed in the correct Pennsy spot.
Eric.
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:32:11 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Fairbrook Branch/Bellefonte Central --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > Just for my own curiousity I was trying to make some > sense of abandoned > railroad grades in the State College area. I suppose you've looked at: http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/Bellefonte.htm (1909) Also, although not real helpful http://fermi.jhuapl.edu/states/1895/pa_1895.jpg More helpful, but not consistent with the foregoing http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/trnsmapSubjects05.html followed by some (obvious) menu navigation to get to an 1895 map issued by the Secretary of Internal Affairs. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:06:58 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Fairbrook Branch/Bellefonte Central On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, robert netzlof wrote: > --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > Just for my own curiousity I was trying to make some > > sense of abandoned > > railroad grades in the State College area. > > I suppose you've looked at: > http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/Bellefonte.htm (1909) Most of the interesting bits are either on the 1935 Allensville quad just south and showing the line through Fairbrook already abandoned and nothing to Pine Grove Mills, or on the not-yet-available Tyrone quad. I suppose it does show that "Fairbrook" was not where it's marked now. > More helpful, but not consistent with the foregoing > http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/trnsmapSubjects05.html > followed by some (obvious) menu navigation to get to > an 1895 map issued by the Secretary of Internal > Affairs. This fills in the Juniata Branch, and that right of way is also still visible on the current quads, shown ending at one of the "The Barrens" labels. No help on the Pine Grove Mills part, though. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:17:30 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Fairbrook Branch/Bellefonte Central On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > I suppose you've looked at: > > http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/Bellefonte.htm (1909) > > Most of the interesting bits are either on the 1935 Allensville quad just > south and showing the line through Fairbrook already abandoned and nothing > to Pine Grove Mills, or on the not-yet-available Tyrone quad. Oh, but this does point the way; I'm mistaken. The track running south of Struble goes to Pine Grove Mills (but the connection into it is on the too-new next map) and the connection from Fairbrook didn't exist yet, the one that's already abandoned on the next map south. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:36:43 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" I've never railfanned the former PRR west of Cresson... In two weeks my family will be going to visit friends that live in Johnstown. We plan to visit the flood museum and the incline, but time is alloted for my son Andrew and I to escape to the rails for a while. Any site locations recommended that are right in town? We'll have a scanner and track map. Map indicates the following: 266.1 CP-SO 268.1 HBD-DED 271.2 CP-AO 273.2 C 274.5 CP-JW 275.1 Johnstown 277.3 SG 283.0 HBD-DED Which of these might be the best spots? Thanks! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 14:38:54 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown From: "Douglas Nelson" Jerry: There's lots to seen in Johnstown, an overlooked area that has lots of vantage points. The main line makes a big bend through Johnstown, and the geography can be confusing, so bring a good map. A good starting point is the view from the top of the inclined plane, from which you can see a large portion of the mainline, the train station, and the Stone Bridge. Visit the station which is a miniature version of New York's Penn Station. There is a view point you can hike to on the hillside across from the Stone Bridge. In Woodvale you can see C Tower and the helper station. East Connemaugh is a good location to park next to the mainline and watch trains without trespassing. You can listen to C Tower on your scanner. You can sometimes see the Connemaugh & Black Lick working around the steel mills, which are unfortunately not very busy these days. CSX also serves Johnstown with one or two trains a week on the former B&O branch along the Stoney Creek. While in town, you should visit the Flood Museum. It has a good film. If you want a cheap lunch and like hot dogs, visit Coney Island, a few blocks from the museum. East of Johnstown, a two mile hike on a recently opened trail brings you to the restored Staple Bend Tunnel (first railroad in America), part of the Allegheny Portage Railway. The trail starts near the main line in Mineral Point. A good spot for a picnic is the mini park at the Cassandra foot bridge. Eastbounds are really working hard as they pass this spot. Johnstown is a great mix of ethnic neighborhoods, steel mills (what's left) and lots of trains, all crammed into several narrow valleys. You should enjoy it. Doug Nelson. ---------- >From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" >To: PRR-talk >Subject: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown >Date: Sun, Mar 3, 2002, 1:36 PM > > I've never railfanned the former PRR west of Cresson... > > In two weeks my family will be going to visit friends that live in > Johnstown. We plan to visit the flood museum and the incline, but time is > alloted for my son Andrew and I to escape to the rails for a while. > > Any site locations recommended that are right in town? > > We'll have a scanner and track map. Map indicates the following: > > 266.1 CP-SO > 268.1 HBD-DED > 271.2 CP-AO > 273.2 C > 274.5 CP-JW > 275.1 Johnstown > 277.3 SG > 283.0 HBD-DED > > Which of these might be the best spots? Thanks! > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com > Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale! > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 18:15:16 -0500 From: Dale Dembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown The movie in the flood museum was at least partially made on the Strasburg RR. We were there when the filming was taking place. Not to spoil the illusion, but the rain scene with the locomotive (1223) was made with a fire truck. It was very neat to see the movie a couple of years later, and be able to remember seeing the filming. I agree that the flood museum is a "must see". The PRR played a major role during the flood. Douglas Nelson wrote: > Jerry: > > There's lots to seen in Johnstown, an overlooked area that has lots of > vantage points. > > The main line makes a big bend through Johnstown, and the geography can be > confusing, so bring a good map. > > A good starting point is the view from the top of the inclined plane, from > which you can see a large portion of the mainline, the train station, and > the Stone Bridge. Visit the station which is a miniature version of New > York's Penn Station. There is a view point you can hike to on the hillside > across from the Stone Bridge. > > In Woodvale you can see C Tower and the helper station. East Connemaugh is > a good location to park next to the mainline and watch trains without > trespassing. You can listen to C Tower on your scanner. > > You can sometimes see the Connemaugh & Black Lick working around the steel > mills, which are unfortunately not very busy these days. CSX also serves > Johnstown with one or two trains a week on the former B&O branch along the > Stoney Creek. > > While in town, you should visit the Flood Museum. It has a good film. If > you want a cheap lunch and like hot dogs, visit Coney Island, a few blocks > from the museum. > > East of Johnstown, a two mile hike on a recently opened trail brings you to > the restored Staple Bend Tunnel (first railroad in America), part of the > Allegheny Portage Railway. The trail starts near the main line in Mineral > Point. > > A good spot for a picnic is the mini park at the Cassandra foot bridge. > Eastbounds are really working hard as they pass this spot. > > Johnstown is a great mix of ethnic neighborhoods, steel mills (what's left) > and lots of trains, all crammed into several narrow valleys. > > You should enjoy it. > > Doug Nelson. > > ---------- > >From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" > >To: PRR-talk > >Subject: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown > >Date: Sun, Mar 3, 2002, 1:36 PM > > > > > I've never railfanned the former PRR west of Cresson... > > > > In two weeks my family will be going to visit friends that live in > > Johnstown. We plan to visit the flood museum and the incline, but time is > > alloted for my son Andrew and I to escape to the rails for a while. > > > > Any site locations recommended that are right in town? > > > > We'll have a scanner and track map. Map indicates the following: > > > > 266.1 CP-SO > > 268.1 HBD-DED > > 271.2 CP-AO > > 273.2 C > > 274.5 CP-JW > > 275.1 Johnstown > > 277.3 SG > > 283.0 HBD-DED > > > > Which of these might be the best spots? Thanks! > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale! > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] F7 Genesis Painting Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:25:43 -0600 Hi Chuck--I have successfully masked just above the grills and over the windshields and airbrushed the roof and details. The bottle of Scalecoat II Brunswick Green which I have is an exact match formthe Genesis units I painted. Any slight differences can easily be obscured with weathering. I use Floquil Grimey Black, very thin, to put a layer of exhaust soot and railroad grime on the roof. Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:30:03 -0500 From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] Who can help with a PR pass. train schedule? List citizens, who has the PRR public TT that could answer this question: ----- Forwarded message from Bob/Mary carlstead ----- I hope you can help me. I was a hostess on the GM&O 1952-53 and am writing a story for its historical society magazine. I need just one piece of information. In 1952-53 did the Pennsylvania RR have a passenger train from St. Louis to Cincinnati that left later in the afternooon around 4:00 p.m.? Could that have been the Spirit of St. Louis? I don't think it was the B & O but after fifty years I can't remember and want to be absolutely accurate on this or someone will 'shoot me down' for certain. Thank you. Mary Carlstead ----- End forwarded message ----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Kisala Douglas K 1Lt 31 OSS/INW Subject: [PRR] 1361 update on Steam Central Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:39:05 +0100 Hello list, Here's a link to Steam Central's news page. It has a nice shot of the 1361's backhead and a synopsis of upcoming work. http://www.steamcentral.com/news.shtml Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:34:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Train Show From: Jerry Britton I'd like to remind those in the area that this Saturday, March 9th, is the annual train show in Harrisburg (PA) sponsored by the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS. Show time is 9 a.m.-3 p.m. and the show is in a NEW LOCATION THIS YEAR. For more details, please visit... http://nrhs-hbg.pennsyrr.com/Trainshow/trainshow2002.html ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Justin Silverman" Subject: [PRR] Correct Cabin Car Info Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:53:08 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1C362.63432280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, I have finally found the correct information to the cabin car that the Oc= ean Gate Historical Society wants to restore. It was originally built on August 6, 1918 with PRR #487213. It was repai= nted with a new number of #477212. After the merger, the car was repaint= ed with Penn Central #19021. Then it finally ended up with Amtrak bearin= g the number #14006 and serial #14006PC19021. If anyone could send me more history of the car, especially where it was = assigned during it years and what paint color, that would be great. Thank you. Sincerely, Justin Silverman Co-curator at OGHSGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : ht= tp://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1C362.63432280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Everyone,
 
I have finally found the correct information = to the cabin car that the Ocean Gate Historical Society wants to restore.=
 
It was originally built on August 6, 1918 w= ith PRR #487213.  It was repainted with a new number of #477212.&nbs= p; After the merger, the car was repainted with Penn Central #19021. = ; Then it finally ended up with Amtrak bearing the number #14006 and seri= al #14006PC19021.
 
If anyone could send me&nb= sp;more history of the car, especially where it was assigned during it ye= ars and what paint color, that would be great.
 
Thank you.
 
Sincerely,
Jus= tin Silverman
Co-curator at OGHS

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1C362.63432280-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:12:15 -0500 From: "Michael J. Albanese" Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown Another site worth experiencing is the Heritage Discovery Center in Cambria City (west of the Stone Bridge, right alongside the NS main). It is designed to give you a flavor for what life was like in industrial Johnstown, particularly for immigrants. Upon entry, you choose an encoded identity card containing the photo and personal info of an immigrant of your choice (Polish, Italian, Slovak, Hungarian, etc.), and then while touring the center you insert the card into audio-visual exhibits depicting human encounters and situations that a newly arrived Johnstown immigrant would likely have been faced with. While you assume the role of immigrant, the person in authority behind the screen (immigration officer, shop foreman, etc.) will berate you, degrade you, insult you (and your heritage), discriminate against you, reject you for employment, and so on. In essence, the person will make you (the immigrant) feel like a totally worthless nothing. Against this rather bleak backdrop, other exhibits then show how working-class Johnstowners were able to persevere against these odds, by binding together and using the resources of community, church, ethnic club, union, etc. A highlight of this center, which covers railroad, coal mining, steel, mercantile, and other aspects of Johnstown life, is the huge cacaphony of sounds you continuously hear, either from audio speakers or by picking up phone-type sticks at the exhibits. At the time I last visited, several exhibits also released scents into the room, reminding you of coal dust, sulfur, and other aromas associated with life around town. The self-tour concludes with an excellent (and rather emotional) film presented on large screens in a comfortable viewing room. There is a large photo art gallery on the top floor (including a window looking out on the NS tracks just outside), as well as a well-stocked book and gift shop. Note that there is another excellent film about the flood shown at the NPS South Fork visitors center, different from the one shown at the Flood Museum downtown. Both are very worthwhile seeing, as they convey different aspects and viewpoints of the tragedy. And if you're lucky enough to be there at the right time, you just might catch a little action on the South Fork Secondary, which runs right through the center of the old dam. Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:29:37 -0500 Subject: [PRR] NS Web Site From: Jerry Britton Just happened by Norfolk Southern's web site today (http://www.nscorp.com/) and found that they added background photos on their main page. To my delight was a photo of the Sherman's Creek Bridge at CP CANNON (ex-VIEW in PRR days). A revisit revealed that the images rotate, but there are probably a few more gems there! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Model Railroader Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:10:40 -0500 Listers, Just got my copy of the April MR. There on the cover is the PRR in all its glory. FP7, J1, E-7, and some nice looking cabin cars along with a position light signal bridge! One question though: was PRR ballast that white? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:04:12 EST From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Railroader// Questions Chris & folks, I don't think anybody's ballast would stay very white, at least not for very long! I'm only speculating, as I haven't recieved MR yet, but am recalling last month's preview cover photo. (I hope MR doesn't run as late this month as the March issue, which I didn't get until the 12th). A couple of questions on my part. Is the Pennsy layout on the cover the one by Gary Salzburg (spelling=?)that was in MR years back? That always struck me as a fine layout of moderate size that did a very good job of capturing Pennsy 'flavor'. There was even a video tape available for awhile which I unfortunately didn't pick up. Another quick question. Is the second part of the B&O National Limited kitbashing project in this issue? I hate to tie up the famous bandwidth on a non-Pennsy question, but all the Yahoogroups have been out of service for about the last day on account of 'maintanance' over on Yahoo. (I wonder if some of the advertisers who peddle their hidden cameras and etc over there are going to want some of their charges refunded after this?). Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Model Railroader// Questions Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:22:44 -0500 Barry and the List, The layout is Al Notarione's Pennsylvania and Westbrook. Has some Erie and NYC (boo-hiss) trackage. The second part of modeling the National Limited is in there. And I'm sure the techniques used in that article can be used to Scratchbuild/Kitbash a PRR passenger car that you can't get anywhere(Mandatory PRR content for this part of the thread:) ) Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Railroader// Questions Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:29:43 +0000 I got mine in Chicago yesterday. Can't tell you the name of the owner but it was one that was published several years ago and he has backdated the rolling stock to the transition years. I don't know what color PRR balast is for most of the railroad but all I remember in Philadelphia as a kid was dark oxide red. I have always wondered if it was from years of brakeshoe dust or rust. After giving much thought to it I think that since I mostly viewed trains from the stations it was probably non representative and was indeed brake shoe dust coloring the balast from stopping in the stations. > Chris & folks, > I don't think anybody's ballast would stay very white, at least not for very > long! > I'm only speculating, as I haven't recieved MR yet, but am recalling last > month's preview cover photo. (I hope MR doesn't run as late this month as the > March issue, which I didn't get until the 12th). > A couple of questions on my part. Is the Pennsy layout on the cover the one by > Gary Salzburg (spelling=?)that was in MR years back? That always struck me as a > fine layout of moderate size that did a very good job of capturing Pennsy > 'flavor'. There was even a video tape available for awhile which I unfortunately > didn't pick up. > Another quick question. Is the second part of the B&O National Limited > kitbashing project in this issue? > I hate to tie up the famous bandwidth on a non-Pennsy question, but all the > Yahoogroups have been out of service for about the last day on account of > 'maintanance' over on Yahoo. (I wonder if some of the advertisers who peddle > their hidden cameras and etc over there are going to want some of their charges > refunded after this?). > Regards, > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Model Railroader// Questions Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:37:22 -0600 By the way, the gentleman that wrote the article on the National Limited is also a member of the PRRT&HS. He has done similar work on some L&N equipment. Maybe he'll publish some kit-bashing of PRR passenger equipment! -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:30 AM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com; BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Railroader// Questions I got mine in Chicago yesterday. Can't tell you the name of the owner but it was one that was published several years ago and he has backdated the rolling stock to the transition years. I don't know what color PRR balast is for most of the railroad but all I remember in Philadelphia as a kid was dark oxide red. I have always wondered if it was from years of brakeshoe dust or rust. After giving much thought to it I think that since I mostly viewed trains from the stations it was probably non representative and was indeed brake shoe dust coloring the balast from stopping in the stations. > Chris & folks, > I don't think anybody's ballast would stay very white, at least not for very > long! > I'm only speculating, as I haven't recieved MR yet, but am recalling last > month's preview cover photo. (I hope MR doesn't run as late this month as the > March issue, which I didn't get until the 12th). > A couple of questions on my part. Is the Pennsy layout on the cover the one by > Gary Salzburg (spelling=?)that was in MR years back? That always struck me as a > fine layout of moderate size that did a very good job of capturing Pennsy > 'flavor'. There was even a video tape available for awhile which I unfortunately > didn't pick up. > Another quick question. Is the second part of the B&O National Limited > kitbashing project in this issue? > I hate to tie up the famous bandwidth on a non-Pennsy question, but all the > Yahoogroups have been out of service for about the last day on account of > 'maintanance' over on Yahoo. (I wonder if some of the advertisers who peddle > their hidden cameras and etc over there are going to want some of their charges > refunded after this?). > Regards, > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Model Railroader Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:06:49 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: Burnley, Charles Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 10:03 AM To: 'Chany, Christopher' Subject: RE: [PRR] Model Railroader Chris, I haven't seen MR yet, so I don't know how "white" the ballast is. Photographs and movies of various locations on the Pennsy on occasion show very light and very well groomed ballast. This probably varied from location to location depending what was mined, or used locally. Crushed limestone ran the gamut from very dark to very light. It is very doubtful this pristine appearance lasted very long, as rail-rust, road dirt, cinders, grease & oil, etc., would quickly color the ballast. In many photo's taken before WWII when labor was cheap the ballast and roadbed were very well manicured and maintained. After the war this trend slowly disappeared as deferred maintenance became the norm. To answer your question... Yes, it just depends when and where, and for how long. Hope this helps. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Chany, Christopher [mailto:cpc1@westchestergov.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:11 AM To: 'prr-talk@dsop.com' Subject: [PRR] Model Railroader Listers, Just got my copy of the April MR. There on the cover is the PRR in all its glory. FP7, J1, E-7, and some nice looking cabin cars along with a position light signal bridge! One question though: was PRR ballast that white? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:47:54 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR: Gallitzin tunnels From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Question: On the west side of the mountain there are two tunnels. The one to the left is small and has been detracked, while the one to the right is double tracked. Is one of these two the portage railroad tunnel? Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:43:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Gallitzin tunnels From: Jerry Britton On 3/5/02 11:47 AM, Donald E. Harper, Jr at (harperd@tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: > On the west side of the mountain there are two tunnels. The one to the left > is small and has been detracked, while the one to the right is double > tracked. Is one of these two the portage railroad tunnel? > Somewhere along the line I picked up the acronym "GAP"...Gallitzin, Allegheny, Portage. This was the order, north to south. Gallitzin would be the northernmost, no longer in service. Allegheny would be the one that was widened and is now double-tracked. Portage would be the one to the south, used almost exclusively by eastbounds. Someone correct me if I am wrong on my naming! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:49:29 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Gallitzin tunnels Hi Don, All, According to "Horseshoe Heritage", by Dan Cupper, the bores were: Northernmost bore - Gallitzin Tunnel Central bore - Allegheny Tunnel Southernmost bore - New Portage Tunnel Respectfully, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:05:45 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Gallitzin tunnels Jerry: You're correct. GAP is the easy way to remember it--the northernmost tunnel (single-track width) is the most recent, opened in 1904 and intended for westbound freight traffic. The center one, Allegheny, is the original, built by PRR and opened in 1854 as a double-track tunnel, and much later single-tracked by PRR. The southernmost was built by the state of Pennsylvania's Allegheny Portage Railroad and opened in 1856. PRR bought the Portage and all of the Main Line of Public Works the next year, so it ended up in PRR hands very early. Dan Cupper Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 3/5/02 11:47 AM, Donald E. Harper, Jr at (harperd@tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: > > > On the west side of the mountain there are two tunnels. The one to the left > > is small and has been detracked, while the one to the right is double > > tracked. Is one of these two the portage railroad tunnel? > > > Somewhere along the line I picked up the acronym "GAP"...Gallitzin, > Allegheny, Portage. This was the order, north to south. > > Gallitzin would be the northernmost, no longer in service. Allegheny would > be the one that was widened and is now double-tracked. Portage would be the > one to the south, used almost exclusively by eastbounds. > > Someone correct me if I am wrong on my naming! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:18:33 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] MODEL RR's BAD PICS Note APRIL 2002 MODEL RAILROADER's cover photo & #1 photo in story. Taking cover photo first . . . According to the layout drawing on page #62, this photo is taken just outside an interlocking (where tracks come together protected by signals). Accordingly the two switch engines with the caboose is on the MAIN track with the PRR E-8's on a siding or passing track. Either way, the signal protecting the interlocking was passed by one, or both, trains with the first one passing putting the signal to STOP position. One of those two trains is guilty of passing a signal displaying STOP and one of them is a passenger train to boot!! The #1 photo has the same problem . . . The hopper train is clearly in the interlocking and the K-4's signal should have been STOP too!!. Sure hope the guy running this RR doesn't work for a real RR 'cause he would have plenty of time to build layouts 'cause he would be fired on the spot for STOP signal violations with passenger trains in both photos!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:23:24 EST Subject: [PRR] Model Railroader// Ballast In a message dated 3/5/02 9:50:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, cadwelml@bp.com writes: << I don't think anybody's ballast would stay very white, at least not for very long! >> I may have mentioned this before, there's a very interesting shot of Horseshoe curve from above, looking West, all the ballast was probably renewd at the same time, but the two upbound tracks (3 & 4 on the right) are white with traction sand, close to the rails while the two doenbound track (1 & 2 on the left) are black with brakeshoe dust - both lines seemed to have the typical centerline black stripe (even in diesel days) from cinders in trhe old days - leaking hopper doors, more recently. (Bathtub bottom hoppers may have reduced or eliminated this - on the current RR scene) The color of the center line depends on your predominate cargo - The W&LE and western AC&Y always had a white stone stripe - the B&LE's, or the Pennsy line south from Erie, I presume, would have an Iron Oxide center line - no mater how tighly you close those hopper doors there is always dust filtering out. Dick Ross, Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:30:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MODEL RR's BAD PICS From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" on 3/5/02 6:18 PM, Richard Poole at Dpoole17@PAnetwork.com wrote: > Note APRIL 2002 MODEL RAILROADER's cover photo & #1 photo in story. Taking > cover photo first . . . According to the layout drawing on page #62, this > photo is taken just outside an interlocking (where tracks come together > protected by signals). Accordingly the two switch engines with the caboose is > on the MAIN track with the PRR E-8's on a siding or passing track. Either way, > the signal protecting the interlocking was passed by one, or both, trains with > the first one passing putting the signal to STOP position. One of those two > trains is guilty of passing a signal displaying STOP and one of them is a > passenger train to boot!! > The #1 photo has the same problem . . . The hopper train is clearly in the > interlocking and the K-4's signal should have been STOP too!!. Sure hope the > guy running this RR doesn't work for a real RR 'cause he would have plenty of > time to build layouts 'cause he would be fired on the spot for STOP signal > violations with passenger trains in both photos!! > >From a technical perspective, the signal bridge in #1 photo is not an interlocking signal (no second target, for starters). It is a normal block signal. The signals facing away from the camera should be dual target to protect the interlocking. The pole signal on the cover is also a block signal and not an interlocking signal. Might also note there doesn't appear to be any grade on this curve, as trains enter and exit to the same right-of-way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Quotation Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:49:40 -0500 List:- For years I have used a quote, even in speeches - "My Railroad may not be as long as yours, but it's just as wide." I had a note in an old speech that it was attributed to the President of a short line railroad, who supposedly said it to the President of the PRR, in the 1960's. I looked in several of my books where I though I might have originally found it, but no luck. Can anyone help me with a source? Thanks. As I short liner who originally started with the PRR I always thought it appropriate to use to remind Class I officers that we were all part of a continental system. Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:44:03 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Quotation --- Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > List:- > > For years I have used a quote, even in speeches - > "My Railroad may not be as > long as yours, but it's just as wide." Theme and variation #1 President of the Panama Railroad: "My railroad may not be as long as yours, but it's wider." > I had a note > in an old speech that it > was attributed to the President of a short line > railroad, who supposedly > said it to the President of the PRR, in the 1960's. I can't cite a reference, but I've seen claims that someone said that to someone else in the 1860's. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:41:23 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] LEONARD SHUFFSTALL I was ask to notify the RR people that LEONARD SHUFFSTALL passed away on TUESDAY, MARCH 5, 2002. I do not know any other details. If you knew LEONARD, I'm sure you will hear more soon! -- DICK POOLE -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Quotation Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:55:48 -0500 Bob: Fat fingers, meant 1860's, thanks. I worked for the PRR in the 1960s! Gregg ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert netzlof" To: "Gregg Mahlkov" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Quotation > --- Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > > List:- > > > > For years I have used a quote, even in speeches - > > "My Railroad may not be as > > long as yours, but it's just as wide." > > Theme and variation #1 > > President of the Panama Railroad: "My railroad may not > be as long as yours, but it's wider." > > > I had a note > > in an old speech that it > > was attributed to the President of a short line > > railroad, who supposedly > > said it to the President of the PRR, in the 1960's. > > I can't cite a reference, but I've seen claims that > someone said that to someone else in the 1860's. > > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:28:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown From: "Douglas Nelson" Also note that the Heritage Discovery Center is in an old (paper?) factory building right along the PRR, and that the entry ramp to the museum is a section of the old pedestrian footbridge that crossed the PRR in Woodvale. Doug Nelson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:23:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MODEL RR's BAD PICS Unfortunately, Model Railroader didn't have space to print the train order issued in connection with these movements: CONDUCTORS AND ENGINEMEN ALL NORTHWARD MOVEMENTS AT NORTHUM-BERLAND: CONDUCTORS AND ENGINEMEN ALL SOUTHWARD MOVEMENTS AT ELGIN: BETWEEN 12:01 PM AND 2:00 PM THIS DATE MOVEMENTS MUST NOT EXCEED RESTRICTED SPEED BETWEEN STATION ELGIN AND STATION NORTHUM-BERLAND ACCOUNT COMPANY PHOTOGRAPHER ON DUTY. MOVEMENTS GOVERNED BY STOP SIGNAL IN THIS TERRITORY DURING THIS TIME MAY PROCEED NOT EXCEEDING FIVE MPH ON INSTRUCTIONS OR HAND SIGNALS FROM COMPANY PHOTOGRAPHER, KEEPING A SHARP LOOKOUT FOR OTHER MOVEMENTS AND ONLY WITH POSITIVE KNOWLEDGE THAT SWITCHES ARE LINED FOR SAFE MOVEMENT. MOVEMENTS MAY REVERSE DIRECTION WITHIN INTERLOCKING LIMITS DURING THIS TIME IF SO INSTRUCTED, PROVIDED ALL SWITCHES AND OTHER APPLIANCES ARE KNOWN TO BE PROPERLY LINED FOR SAFE MOVEMENT. ++++++++ (Just to point out that operating rules can be modified by train order, when the need arises.) Now, back to your regular timetable. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:38:27 -0600 From: Greg Johnson Subject: Re: [PRR] MODEL RR's BAD PICS Hey guys don't be to hard on the photographer. I am sure the rolling stock was posed for compositional purposes. I doubt if half the MR readers are even aware of most prototype operational/signaling rules anyway. Regards (approach medium), Greg Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Poole" To: "PRR TALK" Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: [PRR] MODEL RR's BAD PICS > Note APRIL 2002 MODEL RAILROADER's cover photo & #1 photo in story. Taking cover photo first . . . According to the layout drawing on page #62, this photo is taken just outside an interlocking (where tracks come together protected by signals). Accordingly the two switch engines with the caboose is on the MAIN track with the PRR E-8's on a siding or passing track. Either way, the signal protecting the interlocking was passed by one, or both, trains with the first one passing putting the signal to STOP position. One of those two trains is guilty of passing a signal displaying STOP and one of them is a passenger train to boot!! > The #1 photo has the same problem . . . The hopper train is clearly in the interlocking and the K-4's signal should have been STOP too!!. Sure hope the guy running this RR doesn't work for a real RR 'cause he would have plenty of time to build layouts 'cause he would be fired on the spot for STOP signal violations with passenger trains in both photos!! > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:49:54 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Ballst Color Buzz writes... >In many photo's taken before WWII when labor was cheap the ballast and roadbed were very well manicured and maintained. After the war this trend slowly disappeared as deferred maintenance became the norm. To answer your question... Yes, it just depends when and where, and for how long. Hope this helps. Buzz< Buzz, Chris and all... The first part of this statement is very true... Who could dispute it? In an interview in 1955 Trains Magazine then President Simms(sp?) admitts that as a result of WW II the physical plant was a mess, a cost of the war years he states and rising post war labor rates. If you guys remember the article Jim Six did for Prototype Modeler in the late 80's kitsmashing an Athearn F-7 and a then Atlas FP-7 the prototype photos in the article taken by R D Acton Sr. shows there is evidence of a nearly white ballast in several shots of the F-7's he had taken in April of 1953 (I believe). These shot were taken in Lines West and I always questioned this with my brother Ed and wondered why so white? Well, the answer we came up with was the typical "white Limestone" aquired in the area. So I guess it goes back to the same old answer we often face... Model from photos of era and date... simple solution, I guess. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:14:11 EST Subject: [PRR] F38 flatcar Anybodyknow what the build date was for these two (?) cars? Bob Zoeller Bayside, WI ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:01:33 -0800 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Quotation Gregg, In the late 1940's or early 1950's, Railroad Magazine had an article on the Beaufort & Morehead City Railroad, a short line in either North or South Carolina. In that article, the story was attributed to the president of that line. Steve Bartlett Subject: Quotation From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:49:40 -0500 List:- For years I have used a quote, even in speeches - "My Railroad may not be as long as yours, but it's just as wide." I had a note in an old speech that it was attributed to the President of a short line railroad, who supposedly said it to the President of the PRR, in the 1960's. I looked in several of my books where I though I might have originally found it, but no luck. Can anyone help me with a source? Thanks. As I short liner who originally started with the PRR I always thought it appropriate to use to remind Class I officers that we were all part of a continental system. Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Quotation Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:15:23 -0500 Steve, My date was typed wrong, should have been 1860's. I know the Leary's, who owned and then leased the B&MH (the state of NC now owns it) and while they may have used it, they didn't originate it. Have heard off list that it was possibly the President of the Ligonier Valley discussing the exchange of passes with the President of the PRR. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Bartlett" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:01 AM Subject: [PRR] Re: Quotation > Gregg, > > In the late 1940's or early 1950's, Railroad Magazine had an article on > the Beaufort & Morehead City Railroad, a short line in either North or > South Carolina. In that article, the story was attributed to the > president of that line. > > Steve Bartlett > > Subject: Quotation > From: "Gregg Mahlkov" > Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:49:40 -0500 > > List:- > > For years I have used a quote, even in speeches - "My Railroad may not > be as > long as yours, but it's just as wide." I had a note in an old speech > that it > was attributed to the President of a short line railroad, who supposedly > said it to the President of the PRR, in the 1960's. I looked in several > of > my books where I though I might have originally found it, but no luck. > Can > anyone help me with a source? > > Thanks. As I short liner who originally started with the PRR I always > thought it appropriate to use to remind Class I officers that we were > all > part of a continental system. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] F38 flatcar Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:45:07 -0500 Inspection of photos in Rail Classics promo literature shows a build date of 4-54. Frank Brua -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:25 PM Subject: [PRR] F38 flatcar >Anybodyknow what the build date was for these two (?) cars? > >Bob Zoeller >Bayside, WI > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:47:47 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR: I-1sa fans From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" OK gang, I've scanned another one. A great shot in my estimation This is of #4543 in the yard at Altoona on 16 Aug 1955. It is unique (to me at least) in that the photo is taken from overhead looking down on the right side of the engine. You can easily see the position of the muffler and the turret (which are barely visible from ground level shots), the washout plugs just down from the bell (which hardly show from the ground), as well as all the grime and cinders accumulated on the pilot deck above the air tanks, on the running board and on the cab roof. The roof hatch is open. 4543 is a single compressor engine with top mounted headlight and front mounted generator. Sand pipes go to wheels 1 and 5. Besides all the above, you can see sand along the tracks. You can see a set of tell-tales just behind the tender (which has probably just taken on water, as it is stationed by a stand pipe and a crewman is standing on the tender deck about where the water hatches are). On adjacent tracks are BSC hoppers, PRR flat car 469326 with earth moving equipment, empty D&H drop end gon 13737, and the end of another flat car, non-PRR judging from the only letter I can see. Way off in the background is another hopper, maybe a H21a. Someone who knows Altoona could probably tell us exactly where this photo was taken. As before, the jpg can be had for the price of an e-mail. This is a big one - 4115 K. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matt Sichel" Subject: [PRR] Catonsville Secondary Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:03:32 -0500
Hey all,
 
I'm trying to do some research about the Catonsville Secondary in Baltimore for a course I have at school.  I'm looking at the possibility of constructing a light rail line over the old row much like the one constructed over the old NCR and B&A.  If anyone has any info on the line from the B&P tunnel out to Catonsville, I would really appreciate it.
 
-Matt Sichel
PRR fan stuck in the 21st century

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----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:00:39 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] BS Hopper Don Harper just offered up a great photo of a PRR I1sa. As usual, while everyone else stares at the engine, I stare at the rolling stock! In the background is an unusual hopper. It appears to be quad or triple. It has an end reminiscent of a PRR H-21 or GLA with the heavy end sill and back to back angle vertical supports, but it has an offset side! The reporting marks are BSCo. The lowercase "o" and the lack of an "X" should date the picture prior to some date, the one where lowercase letters were barred and the one where private owners had to use the "X" suffix. Is BSCo Bethlehem Steel Co? Any guesses from the clue as to when this photo was taken? For those of you freight car aficionado's not on the PRR list who did not get the original post, he offered the jpeg file off line with an email to him at : "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:20:54 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR: Message to John Rosenbauer bounced From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" John Rosenbauer The reply I sent to you was returned with the following message: ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 550 unknown user ) Please advise. Sorry for using the bandwidth on PRR-Talk, but I can't respond to him any other way. Don Harper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Sanborn Maps Online Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:43:20 -0500 It seems to me that Sanborn Maps must be available on line, but I sure can't seem to find them even after several searches and calling several 800 numbers. Can anyone help? I'm starting to think these maps are covered by the National Secrets Act or something! Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII (if I could only gain access to the Sanborn maps!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:32:51 -0600 From: "Colm Chomicky" Subject: Re: [PRR] Sanborn Maps Online Here some limited help. I think I saw a previous thread where limited maps might be through Penn State Library? My recollection is Sanborn maps are proprietary and generally you have to pay out the wazzo to get a copy of a given area. They are in much demand by various industries and the company owning the Sanborn information rights capitalizes on this with no apologies. I believe there is a website with the information on how to purchase this commodity. I would guess a little tiny shot of a little tiny area could be easily $100. Maybe you could spend $1000's for any major coverage. >>> "William Bigler" 03/07/02 03:43PM >>> It seems to me that Sanborn Maps must be available on line, but I sure can't seem to find them even after several searches and calling several 800 numbers. Can anyone help? I'm starting to think these maps are covered by the National Secrets Act or something! Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII (if I could only gain access to the Sanborn maps!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:44:55 -0500 From: kunchick@comcast.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Sanborn Maps Online http://sanborn.umi.com/ But I haven't check to see how much it cost to enter them Fred Frederick H. Kunchick Jr. GSCS(SW) USN(Retired) Independent AMSOIL Account Direct http://www.lubedealer.com/kunchick/index.htm Member Strasburg Model Railroad Club http://www.trainweb.org/smrc/index.html Host of ALHN/AHGP New Hampshire Civil War History and Genealogy Project http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nh/topic/civilwar/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Bigler" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:43 PM Subject: [PRR] Sanborn Maps Online > It seems to me that Sanborn Maps must be available on line, but I sure can't > seem to find them even after several searches and calling several 800 > numbers. Can anyone help? I'm starting to think these maps are covered by > the National Secrets Act or something! > > Bill Bigler > Modeling Renovo & > Williamsport WWII (if > I could only gain access to the > Sanborn maps!) > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ThreeButchers@cs.com Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:40:37 EST Subject: [PRR] (no subject) >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Catonsville Secondary From: "Matt Sichel" Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:03:32 -0500 Hey all, I'm trying to do some research about the Catonsville Secondary in Baltimore for a course I have at school. I'm looking at the possibility of constructing a light rail line over the old row much like the one constructed over the old NCR and B&A. If anyone has any info on the line from the B&P tunnel out to Catonsville, I would really appreciate it. -Matt Sichel >>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt; I grew up outside of Catonsville, but have been away for years. I would be very interested in your research....wish I could help more. It seems to me that I can remember seeing photos of PRR X31F "turtleroof" JEEP Boxcars stenciled "When Empty Return to Catonsville" (or something to that effect). These were roundroof cars that were converted during WWII with a raised center roof portion to accomodate a full load of military vehicles. I always wondered what significance of that was, but never had the time to research it. Maybe others can add / help. Good Luck; Brian Butcher PRR 30s-50s PRRT&HS #5540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:25:14 EST From: LKeough107@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Southwest Branch List I am trying to locate as much information as possible on the Southwest Branch of the PRR. It ran from Greensburg Pa to Connelsville Pa through Youngwood Yard. I would like to get a complete map of the route including track diagrams and the Youngwood yard. My primary interest is from Greensburg to the south end of the Youngwood yard. I was told about a year ago that a list exists that not only provides the track layout but also lists the businesses the line serviced. I would also like to get any information about SW tower, ie when it was built, torn down, floor plans or measurements that type of stuff. Somehow in some wild dream I have, I would like to recreate this approximately 6 mile section of the PRR in the mid 1950's. I do have a copy of "The Keystone" that covers the Youngwood yards. Thank you all in advance. Any and all help and/or information will be greatly appreciated. Steve Keough ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:49:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Southwest Branch From: Jerry Britton On 3/8/02 11:25 AM, LKeough107@aol.com (LKeough107@aol.com) wrote: > I am trying to locate as much information as possible on the Southwest Branch > of the PRR. It ran from Greensburg Pa to Connelsville Pa through Youngwood > Yard. I would like to get a complete map of the route including track > diagrams and the Youngwood yard. My primary interest is from Greensburg to > the south end of the Youngwood yard. I was told about a year ago that a list > exists that not only provides the track layout but also lists the businesses > the line serviced. The CT1000 is a document published at various times that listed all industries along the line, in 1/10 mile increments. The last one published was in 1945. The Greensburg area would have been in the Central Region, so you would need the CT1000C (C denoting Central). You can download a copy in Acrobat PDF format from my Keystone Crossings web site, from the documents section, at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/ ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Re: [FC] Reporting mark dates (was: BS Hopper) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:11:04 -0500 Andy, Finally got to look at the photo in question. If you look carefully, the "BSCo" marks look freshly applied. If PRR sold some old hoppers to Bethlehem Steel, they would have to originate somewhere on the PRR. Since Altoona was the site of PRR's largest shops, that would be a logical location to find such hoppers. The "X" applies if the shipper wishes to place the cars in regular interchange service and get PAID for their use. Certainly in the pre-computer days of 1955, such cars could have been moved as "freight". This may not be the case, but it at least explains everything satisfactorily. Gregg Mahlkov ------------------------------------------------------ Ah, but the car in question was photographed in 1955 in Enola yard. That's interchange service. Regards, Andy Miller ================================================== Eric Neubauer wrote: How about the date when non-RR car owners (e.g. Beth Steel) were required to have a reporting mark ending in "X"? In this case, I assume we're talking about an in-plant car. Cars for use within the Bethlehem plant and on the PB&NE continued to use BSCo initials. The newest ones were built in the 1970s for limestone and/or dirt service. Cars used in interchange service were BSCX, etc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] WW2 era items Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:49:57 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1C6A8.2208EC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; Thruout the Pennsy countryside, would there have been any oil well = pumps, the walking beam style? Also, forklifts and pallets, circa 1944, what style, models were there = in use? The "pallets" were single deck with metal legs?? If, so, anybody = know where pictures would be available? Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1C6A8.2208EC20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 Thruout the Pennsy countryside, = would there=20 have been any oil well pumps, the walking beam style?
Also, forklifts and pallets, circa = 1944, what=20 style, models were there in use? The "pallets" were single deck with = metal=20 legs?? If, so, anybody know where pictures would be = available?
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th = scale
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1C6A8.2208EC20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Enola Yard Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:05:14 -0500 Listers, >From NS monthly e-newsletter: Enola improvements complete redesigned network Norfolk Southern has completed network improvements for its Thoroughbred Operating Plan (TOP) for merchandise traffic. Enola Yard, near Harrisburg, Pa., is the last piece of the puzzle to complement the company's efforts to reduce transit times and car handling for merchandise trains. Classification operations began Jan. 21. The company has quadrupled the switching capacity at Enola Yard. The project enables NS to streamline routings between certain origins and destinations, while enhancing the quality of service it offers. "This project symbolizes Norfolk Southern's aggressive pursuit of freight business moving between the Northeast and the South and further solidifies Harrisburg's position as a major freight hub for the Mid-Atlantic," said David Brown, general manager Northern Region. "Shippers should realize immediate benefits from the capacity increase at Enola, including improved transit times and equipment utilization." The improvements allow NS to process 600 cars per day, compared to 125 previously. The $9.8 million project involved rehabilitating nearly 13 miles of track, constructing nine miles of new track and replacing 10 miles of railroad ties. Also included in the project was the renovation of an unused office building and the installation of 12 light towers. "With this last piece in place, we can offer our customers more consistent, reliable service," said Dale Schaub, senior director service design and transportation planning. Schaub is part of a team located in Atlanta that monitors daily merchandise traffic performance in a command center. Performance is measured by on-time departures at origins, point-to-point transit and on-time arrivals at destinations. The team can make changes to the plan as conditions change, to ensure consistency. Enola Yard was built in 1905 by the Pennsylvania Railroad, an NS predecessor, and at one point was the largest rail freight classification yard in the U.S. Traffic through the yard reached its peak in the 1940s. Enola's role as a major railroad classification facility ended in 1993, when Conrail ceased hump operations. I wonder how much was replacing stuff that was removed years ago? Well see in under 2 months!! Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:21:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Enola Yard From: Jerry Britton On 3/8/02 2:05 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > The company has quadrupled the switching capacity at Enola Yard... > The improvements allow NS to process 600 cars per day, compared to 125 > previously. Geez, most of us process more cars than that in our basements! > > Enola Yard was built in 1905 by the Pennsylvania Railroad, Wasn't it earlier than that...like 1902...in conjuction with the A&S and the new Rockville Bridge? > > > > I wonder how much was replacing stuff that was removed years ago? > > Well see in under 2 months!! It's not that dramatic. They didn't do anything (to speak of) on the east half of the yard. Though they probably upgraded the running tracks that get from DAY to the west end of the yard. All of the new work was where the former westbound classification hump yard was. From 11/15 you can't actually see how many new tracks there are, nor the turnout configuration, but I'm told the tracks do not diverge as efficiently as the PRR had it, so there's not quite as good use of space. Not sure how much you can see from the Overlook bridge. That would provide a view of the west end, but the I-81 bridge will at least partly block the view. At least there's traffic! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:41:56 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] New additions from Microscale... Listers, With some reseach and prototype help from a good friend Mark Kerlick, Microscale has now added the "Radio Equipped" emblem for mid-sixties models... Here's an out take from Microscale regarding... "Also,we finally got the radio stickers added to set 87-21... The O Scale set, 48-194, is currently on the press with the radio stickers added as well..." I am working on a few other projects with Microscale as time permitts. Thanks Again to Mark Kerlick for his research! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:49:56 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [HarrisRailFan] Re: [PRR] Enola Yard Jerry and the list: 1905 is correct as the opening date for Enola Yard. The contractor was H.S. Kerbaugh Inc., which also had three other major PRR contracts in the area at the same time--(1) the contract to build the west half of Rockville Bridge, (2) the contract to excavate and regrade the entire area west of Rockville Bridge and Marysville yard, including the new double-track passenger main line that crossed above the Northern Central and came closer to the town center. (This is the line, now single-tracked, that passes the depot, which is the present-day Blue Mtn. Outfitters.) and (3) the northern end of the Low Grade line, from Columbia to Enola. As Kerbaugh was finishing his work on the bridge in late 1901 and early 1902, he transferred many of his workers to the Marysville job. As they were finishing that, he transferred them to Enola and the Low Grade. Kerbaugh was awarded the contract to build Enola on November 20, 1902. By February 1903, 2,000 men were working on the project and it was projected that it would take two years to complete. The forecast was accurate--the yard opened on January 18, 1905. Hope this helps, Dan Cupper Jerry Britton wrote: > > > Enola Yard was built in 1905 by the Pennsylvania Railroad, > > Wasn't it earlier than that...like 1902...in conjuction with the A&S and the > new Rockville Bridge? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:02:52 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] WW2 era items From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3098440973_605732_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are STILL pipe rigs with walking beams in western Pennsylvania. Still operating as stripper wells. Don't know where you are, but if you drive into RobinsonTownship, Allegheny County, PA, on Route 60 going to the airport from down by the river you pass right by one. There are several others clustered in the nearby valleys. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- From: "Earl Myers" To: "PRR Talk" Subject: [PRR] WW2 era items Date: Fri, 08 Mar, 2002, 12:49 Gents; Thruout the Pennsy countryside, would there have been any oil well pumps, the walking beam style? Also, forklifts and pallets, circa 1944, what style, models were there in use? The "pallets" were single deck with metal legs?? If, so, anybody know where pictures would be available? Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale --MS_Mac_OE_3098440973_605732_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] WW2 era items There are STILL pipe rigs with walking beams in western Pennsylvania.  = ;Still operating as stripper wells.  Don't know where you are, but if y= ou drive into RobinsonTownship, Allegheny County, PA, on Route 60 going to t= he airport from down by the river you pass right by one.  There are sev= eral others clustered in the nearby valleys.  


Don Harper
Texas A&M Marine Lab
5007 Avenue U
Galveston, TX  77551
409/740-4540


----------
From: "Earl Myers" <emyers5@neo.rr.com>
To: "PRR Talk" <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Subject: [PRR] WW2 era items
Date: Fri, 08 Mar, 2002, 12:49


Gents;
 Thruout the Pennsy countryside, would there have been any oil well pu= mps, the walking beam style?
Also, forklifts and pallets, circa 1944, what style, models were there in u= se? The "pallets" were single deck with metal legs?? If, so, anybo= dy know where pictures would be available?
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th scale

--MS_Mac_OE_3098440973_605732_MIME_Part-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton" Subject: RE: [PRR] Sanborn Maps Online Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:02:37 -0000 They are available online but only to subscribers to sanborn.umi.com A recent spate of emailing over various mailing lists passed around a "borrowed" password to the UMI site. While the ethics of freely using acquired passwords and user names to which you are not entitled seemed to pass many people by, a correspondent mentioned that UMI are, or have been, offering free trials to various institutions and libraries for a short time. I suggest that you badger your local public library to take advantage of the free trial offer if it's still available. Aidrian --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.332 / Virus Database: 186 - Release Date: 06/03/2002 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:04:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [HarrisRailFan] Re: [PRR] Enola Yard From: Jerry Britton On 3/8/02 2:49 PM, Dan Cupper (cupper@att.net) wrote: > The contractor was H.S. Kerbaugh Inc., which also had three other major > PRR contracts in the area at the same time--(1) the contract to build > the west half of Rockville Bridge, (2) the contract to excavate and > regrade the entire area west of Rockville Bridge and Marysville yard, > including the new double-track passenger main line that crossed above > the Northern Central and came closer to the town center. That reminds me of a point once researched... Bill Lewis commented to me some time ago that only one track of the former Northern Central Branch appeared under the flyover for as long back as he could remember, via photos. The flyover bridge definitely passes over space for two tracks, and one has been an access road for the longest time. At the New Oxford auction a few years ago I picked up Alexander's book "The Pennsylvania Railroad" and it had a photo showing both tracks. As best I can figure, the second track was pulled up concurrent with when the track from Enola curving onto the Rockville Bridge was finally added in the late 1930's. Perhaps it was a clearance issue. Related: Knowing Enola was going to be built at the time the Rockville Bridge was built, I'm surprised the curved track off the bridge south into Enola wasn't part of the original plan. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] WW2 era items Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:06:12 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1C6B2.C9497F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pennsy's Buffalo line through NW PA to Erie would have passed near the = PA oil fields near Meadville, Bradford and Oil City PA. While I can't = identify any specifically, I have to think there would have been oil = wells with walking beam pumps, especially during WWII. I think Jerry = Shickler who has the websites of the P&E, E&P, and Chataqua branches = http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm might be your best = bet. I don't recall anything on his sites, but they shure go through = that part of the country. An e-mail to him might yield some = information. Good luck! Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Earl Myers=20 To: PRR Talk=20 Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 1:49 PM Subject: [PRR] WW2 era items Gents; Thruout the Pennsy countryside, would there have been any oil well = pumps, the walking beam style? Also, forklifts and pallets, circa 1944, what style, models were there = in use? The "pallets" were single deck with metal legs?? If, so, anybody = know where pictures would be available? Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1C6B2.C9497F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pennsy's Buffalo line through NW PA to Erie = would have=20 passed near the PA oil fields near Meadville, Bradford and Oil City = PA. =20 While I can't identify any specifically, I have to think there would = have been=20 oil wells with walking beam pumps, especially during WWII.  I think = Jerry=20 Shickler who has the websites of the P&E, E&P, and Chataqua = branches http://www.velo= city.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm   =20 might be your best bet.  I don't recall anything on his sites, but = they=20 shure go through that part of the country.  An e-mail to  him = might=20 yield some information.  Good luck!
 
Bill Bigler
Modeling Renovo=20 &
     Williamsport WWII
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Earl = Myers=20
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 = 1:49=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] WW2 era = items

Gents;
 Thruout the Pennsy countryside, = would there=20 have been any oil well pumps, the walking beam style?
Also, forklifts and pallets, circa = 1944, what=20 style, models were there in use? The "pallets" were single deck with = metal=20 legs?? If, so, anybody know where pictures would be = available?
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th=20 scale
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1C6B2.C9497F40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:36:31 -0600 Subject: [PRR] I-1sa fans From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" I scanned a photo of the left side of #790 for Gregg Mahlkov. 790 lacks a feedwater heater. It is available to anyone who wants a copy, as usual, for the price of an e-mail. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:54:46 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [HarrisRailFan] Re: [PRR] Enola Yard Jerry Britton wrote: > > Related: Knowing Enola was going to be built at the time the Rockville > Bridge was built, I'm surprised the curved track off the bridge south into > Enola wasn't part of the original plan. Greetings to Jerry and the List: Actually, it was. The proof of this is that the south wall of the bridge extends straight across to the West Shore and does not curve to the north. This was the same idea as the railroad implemented on the East Shore, with the wye track connection leading to the Rockville Branch to Dauphin and the NC (and on to Sunbury, Northumberland, Wilkes-Barre, Williamsport, Renovo, Buffalo, etc.) The subject was debated internally and finally, nine months after the bridge was opened and for a reason that surviving correspondence does not specify, gave it up. The strongest possibility seems to be that PRR was definitely considering building a new double-track steel bridge from the NC at Dauphin to Marysville Yard, which would basically replicate the NC bridge that stood there 1858-1884. The idea had advanced to the point that PRR had its real-estate people inquiring about property in Dauphin, and surveyors running lines. If you put yourself in PRR management's position and believed that such a new structure was going to be built, you'd naturally assume that all north-south freight traffic would flow that way, lessening the need for a south leg of a wye at the west end of Rockville Bridge. All for now, Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:58:07 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: I-1sa fans --part1_1e.24629b41.29ba7fdf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don & List. Thanks for the picture. Well after looking at the valuation maps for the Altoona yards at the overhead bridges,this picture was taken from top of the East Altoona bridge looking east. The bridge is off the bottom of the picture,the roundhouse is off the left side of the picture. This is at the east end of the eastbound class yd coming down from the Juniata Scales and going into the eastbound Advance yd before leaving at ANTIS. You see a scene close to this on some of the postcards that are on ebay from time to time. Pat McKinney --part1_1e.24629b41.29ba7fdf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don & List.
       Thanks for the picture. Well after looking at the valuation maps for the Altoona yards at the overhead bridges,this picture was taken from top of the East Altoona bridge looking east. The bridge is off the bottom of the picture,the roundhouse is off the left side of the picture. This is at the east end of the eastbound class yd coming down from the Juniata Scales and going into the eastbound Advance yd before leaving at ANTIS. You see a scene close to this on some of the postcards that are on ebay from time to time.

Pat McKinney
 --part1_1e.24629b41.29ba7fdf_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:56:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR N8-The Finished Product Lists, I was finally able to finish my G Scale (1:29th Scale) PRR N8 Cabin Car. You may have visited my website showing the model in an in progress photo essay. With just the addition of the decals I really think it captured the look of the prototype. Just what I was after when I started the model! Here is a link to a photo of the N8. http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/finn85.JPG To view the complete N8 project, visit : http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/GN8-index.html Now being this one is finished like the N5b and N6b, on to the N5c Cabin......Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:13:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR N8-The Finished Product --part1_d3.7c52552.29ba9fb2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary. An excellent looking N8. Do you run on the outdoor track or is it for photos only? Waiting for the N5c. Pat --part1_d3.7c52552.29ba9fb2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary. An excellent looking N8. Do you run on the outdoor track or is it for photos only? Waiting for the N5c.

Pat

 --part1_d3.7c52552.29ba9fb2_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:50:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR N8-The Finished Product Hey Gary.... Great job on the PRR N8 Cabin Car! Looks like it's straight out of the Altoona Works. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] N-8 Finished Product Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:46:08 -0500 Gary, Now that is one fine looking cabin car! Congratulations on your patience and effort. Now if only we can get a manufacturer to mass produce one in HO....... Take care, Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] N-8 Finished Product Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 07:45:11 -0500 Hi Gary, Your N-8 looks great. You MUST bring it to the newly revitalized model room at the PRRT & HS convention. WE STILL NEED MORE VOLUNTEERS to man the room. See, I snuck this in. I made you read it. Contact Keith Thompson at kbt@bit-net.com to schedule your hour in the room. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 05:58:02 -0800 (PST) From: Joseph Andrews Subject: [PRR] oil wells on PRR >Gents; > Thruout the Pennsy countryside, would there have >been any oil well pumps, the walking beam style? >Also, forklifts and pallets, circa 1944, what style, >models were there in use? The "pallets" were single >deck with metal legs?? If, so, anybody know where >pictures would be available? >Earl Myers >PRR in 1/29th scale As a kid growing up in Canonsburg PA in the late 40's along the Washington branch of the PRR, I remember climbing on and playing around a couple of creaky old wells out in the fields. I was too young to notice how they were powered or much else about them except that they were there and pumping away. Joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] oil wells on PRR Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:24:10 -0500 Dear list: There are still some operating pumps here in Greene County Pennsylvania. Does anyone want me to try and get some digital photos? Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Andrews" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 8:58 AM Subject: [PRR] oil wells on PRR > >Gents; > > Thruout the Pennsy countryside, would there have > >been any oil well pumps, the walking beam style? > >Also, forklifts and pallets, circa 1944, what style, > >models were there in use? The "pallets" were single > >deck with metal legs?? If, so, anybody know where > >pictures would be available? > >Earl Myers > >PRR in 1/29th scale > > As a kid growing up in Canonsburg PA in the late 40's > along the Washington branch of the PRR, I remember > climbing on and playing around a couple of creaky old > wells out in the fields. I was too young to notice how > they were powered or much else about them except that > they were there and pumping away. > Joe > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: [PRR] Bell Location On Alco S1 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:47:22 -0500 Where was the bell located on the Pennsy Alco S1 switchers - frame mounted (which side please) or under the carbody somewhere? Can't find many pictures to check but I haven't found any with it located in front of the cab where Life-Like put it on their recent release. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RTSILLER@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:33:06 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Bell Location On Alco S1 --part1_16.1b77da62.29bc11d2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The bell on the S1 is frame mounted in front of the fuel tank on the right side of the engine. George Elwood has a great set of diesel locomotive photos online that I always reference when I'm detailing models. His master PRR diesel list can be found at: http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood/other/prr-diesel.html There are a several good S1 photos showing the bell location. George's site has a lot of great info so spend some time looking around. Thanks George for making these photos available. Regards, Rick --part1_16.1b77da62.29bc11d2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The bell on the S1 is frame mounted in front of the fuel tank on the right side of the engine.  George Elwood has a great set of diesel locomotive photos online that I always reference when I'm detailing models.  His master PRR diesel list can be found at:

http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood/other/prr-diesel.html

There are a several good S1 photos showing the bell location.  George's site has a lot of great info so spend some time looking around.

Thanks George for making these photos available.

Regards,
Rick --part1_16.1b77da62.29bc11d2_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:35:11 EST Subject: [PRR] ORER: WW 2 era cars Don't recall seeing it on here - but the NMRA has just released a reprint of the 1943 ORER (Official Railway Equipment Register) Hard cover $64.95 Soft Cover (as were the originals) $49.95. Either price is $10.00 less for NMRA members (but if you are an NMRA member - you probably knew that) A few copies of the 1953 reprint are still available at their web site which is - www.nmra.com/#orer These books are particularly valuable for us PRR types as the Pennsy listed their own road classifications along with the number series (X-29, H-21a, etc.) and, at times, "exceptions" within number groupings will show which cars had special features or loading equipment. Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:46:37 EST Subject: [PRR] BS Hopper - Reporting Marks In a message dated 3/7/02 1:08:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << In the background is an unusual hopper. It appears to be quad or triple. It has an end reminiscent of a PRR H-21 or GLA with the heavy end sill and back to back angle vertical supports, but it has an offset side! The reporting marks are BSCo. The lowercase "o" and the lack of an "X" should date the picture prior to some date, the one where lowercase letters were barred and the one where private owners had to use the "X" suffix. >> Interesting question - Richard Burg's history of the GLa in the Feb 2002 "RMJ" addresses the question of standard lettering with the "X" suffix for privately owned cars. I would have guessed circa 1920's - but Burg has a photo of a Berwind "New River" car still lettered "NR&PCCCO" dated 6/31 - Was there a "standardaization" date & was it "absoloute" or was it another of those "cars used in interchange service" rules Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Camp Hill Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:25:51 -0500 If I'm figuring right it's less than 8 weeks to the PRRt&HS Convention in Camp Hill, and I haven't seen a registration form either in the Keystone or on line. Have I missed something? Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] E-mail addresses Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:28:47 -0500 Lost my e-mail address book (along with the back up - long story) in a total computer crash that wiped out my hard drive. Don't worry, it was a defective hard drive in a new computer, not a virus. Would Greg Stone (aka Mr. Renovo) and anyone else I used to correspond with please e-mail me off-list with your e-mail addresses? Thanks! Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:00:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Camp Hill From: Jerry Britton On 3/10/02 3:25 PM, William Bigler at (wbigler@stny.rr.com) wrote: > If I'm figuring right it's less than 8 weeks to the PRRt&HS Convention in > Camp Hill, and I haven't seen a registration form either in the Keystone or > on line. Have I missed something? > People who subscribe to the PRRT&HS eNews (Yahoo Groups) got the opportunity to download the forms and register several weeks ago. The mailing to all members must have just gone out as I got mine yesterday. Excellent slate of sessions I must say...and plan to be there Thursday night for a very special session on the 100th birthday of the Rockville Bridge by Dan Cupper. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Creamer & Sugar Dish Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:09:55 -0500 Group, Picked up A creamer, & sugar dish with what I call red PRR Logo on it the main protion is cream color. It has a small dish that I think goes under the cream cup. But I am unsure. Now for the question What era is this from and is it really worth anything?? No markings on the bottom of any peice. Thanks in advance Sam Vastano McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. PH 724-368-8040 X243 Fax 724-368-9677 _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:28:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Creamer & Sugar Dish Sam,             Does this set have a crackled finish to it to make it look old? If so it is a repro set that has been around for the past 5 years or so. I see it usually for about $10.00-$15.00 at antique stores. I have seen the set in NYC finish as well. No markings on the underside either makes it sound like this set.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RamblingReck@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Creamer & Sugar Dish Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:58:54 +0000 Sam, It's not anything the PRR ever had, so I can't call it a fake. The things have shown up on ebay marked for several railroads. John Ryan > Group, > > Picked up A creamer, & sugar dish with what I call red PRR Logo on it the > main protion is cream color. It has a small dish that I think goes under > the cream cup. But I am unsure. Now for the question What era is this from > and is it really worth anything?? No markings on the bottom of any peice. > > Thanks in advance > > Sam Vastano > McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. > PH 724-368-8040 X243 > Fax 724-368-9677 > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Scale Test Car Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:55:17 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Paolo Roffo just posted a photo of a PRR scale test car that's in the Danbury Railroad Museum. Does anybody know what the fine print on the sign on the railing says? The URL is http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?200203081412156598.jpg Thanks! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] PRR memorabilia Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:22:54 -0500 List: Speaking of PRR stuff like a sugar and creamer, I have some PRR keystone shaped ashtrays with the interlocked "PRR" painted in tuscan red on the bottom. These came from the VP-Traffic's larder. Any idea what they're worth? Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:40:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR memorabilia Gregg, Which version? Bakelite or Glass Keystone ashtarys? They show up on ebay and trainshows quite regularly. Depeding on condition and who is selling them $15.00-$40.00.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR memorabilia Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:04:17 -0500 Gary, These are the glass ones, similar to the ones used on the dining and club cars, but those did not have the "PRR" painted on them, they were just glass keystones. The President and the VP-Traffic did a "circle tour" aka the "dog and pony show" annually and held a dinner for big shippers in each city around the country where PRR had a sales office. These were put on the dinner tables and left behind. Even 40 years ago not everyone smoked so not all got used. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: "Gregg Mahlkov" Cc: Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR memorabilia > Gregg, > > Which version? Bakelite or Glass Keystone ashtarys? They show up > on ebay and trainshows quite regularly. Depeding on condition and who is > selling them $15.00-$40.00.....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Grundy Tower Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:39:29 +0000 Does anybody know of any web sites with a picture of Grundy tower? It is the only one between Arsenal and Morris that I don't have a reference photo of for my cooridor plan. Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:05:51 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Scale Test Car --part1_17.249c043e.29be843f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2002 9:10:26 AM Mountain Standard Time, dennis@bbn.com writes: > http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?200203081412156598.jpg > The best guess would be something pertaining to the following: 1) These cars were to be moved only behind the caboose on a freight or as a special movement. 2) Speed restriction was 15 mph. 3) Cars were not allowed to be humped. 4) No repair work was to be done without the permission of the head of the car dept.. as to prevent an unrecorded change in weight. Bearing lubrication also required the head honcho's okay. The car's ballast was adjusted after repairs to make the weight exact. Evan Leisey --part1_17.249c043e.29be843f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/2002 9:10:26 AM Mountain Standard Time, dennis@bbn.com writes:


http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?200203081412156598.jpg


The best guess would be something pertaining to the following:

1)  These cars were to be moved only behind the caboose on a freight or as a special
    movement.
2)  Speed restriction was 15 mph.
3)  Cars were not allowed to be humped.
4)  No repair work was to be done without the permission of the head of the car dept..
   as to prevent an unrecorded change in weight.  Bearing lubrication also required
   the head honcho's okay.  The car's ballast was adjusted after repairs to make the
   weight exact.

Evan Leisey --part1_17.249c043e.29be843f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:14:29 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Class BM70 > Jerry Britton wrote: > > Could one or more of you fine folks educated in the ways of passenger > > equipment please compare and contrast the following three sub-classes of > > BM70's: > > > > BM70 > > BM70m > > BM70m 30' > > > > I know the 30' refers to mail space vs. baggage space, but I don't know how > > it compares to the otherwise standard space allocation. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry & List- Revised, improved version of previous list I sent to you Car Class Info Trucks Model Manufacturer Baggage Mail- Keystone-V.26,#1-HiLine,V.9,#4 BM70 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-Single door-1910-11 Reblt. to B70 Baggage-1942 3CP1 BM70C 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-Double door-1911 Reblt. to B70 Baggage-1940-43 3CP1 BM70D 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-Double door-1913-16 Reblt. to BM70KA-1940-45 3D5P2 BM70E 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-Double door-1914-17 Reblt. to BM70KA-1940-45 3D5P2 BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1922-23 #5264-65,5267-5286 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- Custom Brass BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70F-1940-41 #5293.5294 3D5P2,3D5P3 BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1911-conv from BM70A 1941 #5307,12,14,79,81,85, Same BM70K 70' Baggage-RPO-25' mail-1913-conv. from BM70F-1944-45 #5309,16,17 3D5P3 BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1916-conv from BM70G 1941 #5311,18,19,24,26-27,47, Same BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1923 ##5333,37, 5357-58 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv from BM70F 1944 #5320,22,28,35-38,49,50,56,59 Same BM70K 70' Baggage-RPO-25' mail-1911-conv. from BM70A-1943-45 #5382,83,86 3D5P3 BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70D-1944 #5339-40,5343-46,5351-55,5368-72,5392-98 3D5P2,3D5P3 N.J.I.-P.S. BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70F 1946 #5341-42,5363-67, 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70E 1946 #5360-62 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1910-conv. from BM70-1946 #5373-78,5388-91 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1917-conv. from BM70E 1945 #5388-90 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1916-conv. from BM70E 1941-45 #7330-7331,7360 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO 30' mail-1917-conv. from BM70E 1941-45 #7427-32 BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70E 1941 #7554-55 3D5P2,3D5P3 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70E 1941-45 #7697,7700,04,05,7766 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1916-conv. from BM70E 1941-44 #9444-9448 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1917-conv. from BM70E 1945 #9711-9714 BM70L(T) 70' Baggage-RPO-15' mail-Blt.1926 #5421-5430 3D5P5 BM70M 70' Baggage 10'-RPO-60'-1910-Conv.from M70-1939 #6547-6561-Re# 1949-"B.L" 3DP1,3DP2,3D7P2 BM70M 70' Baggage 10'-RPO-60'-1910-Conv.from M70-1939 #6562-6592-Re# 1949-"B.L" 3DP1,3DP2,3D7P2 BM70N 70' Baggage 10'-RPO-60'-1910-Conv.from M70-1939 #6532-6546-Re# 1949-"B.L" 3DP1,3DP2,3D7P2 P.S. BM70NB-70' Baggage-RPO-60' Mail-10' Bagg.-1910 #6503,04,07,09,12,16,18,22,23,25,27,28-Conv.from M70- 1949-53 2EP5,2EP6A Rivarossi BM70NB-70' Baggage-RPO-60' Mail-10' Bagg.-1908-14 #6506, 6529- "B.L."- Conv. from M70B 1950-53 2EP5,2EP6A Rivarossi BD85R- 85" Dormitory-Baggage- ACF-Lot 2986 #6691-6694,6696 BM85-85' Baggage-RPO- Blt.1948-49 #6595-6598 x -Conv. 1964 from BD85 #6691-94 2EP5 BM85A-85' Baggage-RPO- Blt.1948-49 #6599 x -Conv. 1964 from PLB85 #6696 2EP5 M70B-RPO-70' mail-ACS-Blt.1910-11-Reblt.from M70(A) 1935 #6501-02,05,08,10-11,13-15,17,19-21,24,26,30- 31- Reblt to M70BA 1956 3DP1 Bethlehem MS60- X-42 -60' Mail Storage Car-Blt.1950 #2540-2549 2DF32 Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere Full setup in 2 minutes! - Free Download http://us.click.yahoo.com/wBUyOD/vakDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:14:29 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] Class BM70 > Jerry Britton wrote: > > Could one or more of you fine folks educated in the ways of passenger > > equipment please compare and contrast the following three sub-classes of > > BM70's: > > > > BM70 > > BM70m > > BM70m 30' > > > > I know the 30' refers to mail space vs. baggage space, but I don't know how > > it compares to the otherwise standard space allocation. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry & List- Revised, improved version of previous list I sent to you Car Class Info Trucks Model Manufacturer Baggage Mail- Keystone-V.26,#1-HiLine,V.9,#4 BM70 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-Single door-1910-11 Reblt. to B70 Baggage-1942 3CP1 BM70C 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-Double door-1911 Reblt. to B70 Baggage-1940-43 3CP1 BM70D 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-Double door-1913-16 Reblt. to BM70KA-1940-45 3D5P2 BM70E 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-Double door-1914-17 Reblt. to BM70KA-1940-45 3D5P2 BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1922-23 #5264-65,5267-5286 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- Custom Brass BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70F-1940-41 #5293.5294 3D5P2,3D5P3 BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1911-conv from BM70A 1941 #5307,12,14,79,81,85, Same BM70K 70' Baggage-RPO-25' mail-1913-conv. from BM70F-1944-45 #5309,16,17 3D5P3 BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1916-conv from BM70G 1941 #5311,18,19,24,26-27,47, Same BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1923 ##5333,37, 5357-58 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- BM70K-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv from BM70F 1944 #5320,22,28,35-38,49,50,56,59 Same BM70K 70' Baggage-RPO-25' mail-1911-conv. from BM70A-1943-45 #5382,83,86 3D5P3 BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70D-1944 #5339-40,5343-46,5351-55,5368-72,5392-98 3D5P2,3D5P3 N.J.I.-P.S. BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70F 1946 #5341-42,5363-67, 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70E 1946 #5360-62 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1910-conv. from BM70-1946 #5373-78,5388-91 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1917-conv. from BM70E 1945 #5388-90 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1916-conv. from BM70E 1941-45 #7330-7331,7360 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO 30' mail-1917-conv. from BM70E 1941-45 #7427-32 BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70E 1941 #7554-55 3D5P2,3D5P3 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1914-conv. from BM70E 1941-45 #7697,7700,04,05,7766 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1916-conv. from BM70E 1941-44 #9444-9448 BM70KA 70' Baggage-RPO-30' mail-1917-conv. from BM70E 1945 #9711-9714 BM70L(T) 70' Baggage-RPO-15' mail-Blt.1926 #5421-5430 3D5P5 BM70M 70' Baggage 10'-RPO-60'-1910-Conv.from M70-1939 #6547-6561-Re# 1949-"B.L" 3DP1,3DP2,3D7P2 BM70M 70' Baggage 10'-RPO-60'-1910-Conv.from M70-1939 #6562-6592-Re# 1949-"B.L" 3DP1,3DP2,3D7P2 BM70N 70' Baggage 10'-RPO-60'-1910-Conv.from M70-1939 #6532-6546-Re# 1949-"B.L" 3DP1,3DP2,3D7P2 P.S. BM70NB-70' Baggage-RPO-60' Mail-10' Bagg.-1910 #6503,04,07,09,12,16,18,22,23,25,27,28-Conv.from M70- 1949-53 2EP5,2EP6A Rivarossi BM70NB-70' Baggage-RPO-60' Mail-10' Bagg.-1908-14 #6506, 6529- "B.L."- Conv. from M70B 1950-53 2EP5,2EP6A Rivarossi BD85R- 85" Dormitory-Baggage- ACF-Lot 2986 #6691-6694,6696 BM85-85' Baggage-RPO- Blt.1948-49 #6595-6598 x -Conv. 1964 from BD85 #6691-94 2EP5 BM85A-85' Baggage-RPO- Blt.1948-49 #6599 x -Conv. 1964 from PLB85 #6696 2EP5 M70B-RPO-70' mail-ACS-Blt.1910-11-Reblt.from M70(A) 1935 #6501-02,05,08,10-11,13-15,17,19-21,24,26,30- 31- Reblt to M70BA 1956 3DP1 Bethlehem MS60- X-42 -60' Mail Storage Car-Blt.1950 #2540-2549 2DF32 Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:31:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Scale Test Car In a message dated 3/11/02 11:10:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, dennis@bbn.com writes: << Does anybody know what the fine print on the sign on the railing says? I concur with everything that Evan said. The exact wording from Ian Fischer's PRR Color Guides. (Either Volume in "Company Service" section. Readable for anyone working in HO or smaller, as an "O" scaler I needed a glass: "Do not grease blocks or make repairs to this car unless directed by Scale Inspector" Mike's Train House (MTH) makes a decent diecast version of Cass YB in three rail "O" scale - easily convertable to two rail, with NWSL wheelsets - the hollow center post of the tinplate coupler will take a 2-56 tap to solid mount a Kadee coupler (best to use a plastic one, on this mostly metal car) Dick Ross, Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:10:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers Hello List, I got a pair of the new REA Express Reefers by Walthers. This car should make a lot of PRR modelers happy, since so many PRR passenger and Mail train had these cars on the head end. I bought the "REA Express" paint scheme version from the early 60s. Now I can run some nice Mail trains with a string of X29s and these new REA reefers. I got to weather these cars. I never saw a clean REA car! They sell for about $24.00 ready to run. To me that is a bit pricey. And you have to install the grab irons yourself. Overall, it's a nice car to add to your model passenger trains. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:39:02 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers In a message dated 3/11/02 7:19:46 PM Central Standard Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: << And you have to install the grab irons yourself. >> And steam lines. Also a little annoying in a $24 car. I don't mind the 1950ish underbody as I don't see it most of the time, but the steam lines make a difference. But giving credit, the detail on the doors is excellent. And I am glad they at least didn't mold on the grabirons so we'd have to scrape them off. Wish P1K Erie-builts had followed that. BTW, is the dimension of the grabirons correct? The Genesis F handrails are too small. A No.80 drill on these cars hints at a pretty small diameter---too lazy to check tonight. The color of these cars is good, IMO, though the lettering and logo don't look right to me. Again would have to check. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:03:37 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] About those concrete signal towers... Back in December of last year, George Pandelios had the misfortune to be shunted off I-80 onto PA 830, which exposed him to a cast concrete interlocking tower at Falls Creek PA. That one was located at a BR&P/PRR crossing. I noted that it was a BR&P design, since BR&P was the junior road and thus had to stand the expense of designing and installing the facility. One of 4 built to that design, I said. Wrong. BR&P, yes. One of 4, no. A while ago I was prowling around at the Library of Congress Web site, and there found a couple photos of "B&O Signal Tower, Riverside Jctn, LIMESTONE VIC, etc. etc." Riverside was where trains on the PRR's Salamanca Branch entered BR&P (later B&O) tracks to reach Bradford, PA. There PRR operated the Bradford RR which served a few industries. The Riverside tower makes the total of the type 5 rather than 4. (Ashford, NY; Riverside, NY; Brockway, PA; Falls Creek, PA; and C&M Junction, PA if you're counting.) The photos may be viewed by going to: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/hhquery.html On the search form there, enter "LIMESTONE VIC" (omitting the quotes). In the search results, look for Riverside, select it. There are two views, and now everyone will be able to see something very much like what George saw while wandering about in the frozen North last December. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:21:36 -0500 From: Godfrey Hall Subject: Re: [PRR] Scale Test Car Does anyone make it in HO? VVA249@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/11/02 11:10:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, dennis@bbn.com > writes: > > << Does anybody know what the fine print on the sign on the railing says? > > I concur with everything that Evan said. The exact wording from Ian Fischer's > PRR Color Guides. (Either Volume in "Company Service" section. Readable for > anyone working in HO or smaller, as an "O" scaler I needed a glass: > "Do not grease blocks > or make repairs to > this car unless > directed by > Scale Inspector" > > Mike's Train House (MTH) makes a decent diecast version of Cass YB in three > rail "O" scale - easily convertable to two rail, with NWSL wheelsets - the > hollow center post of the tinplate coupler will take a 2-56 tap to solid > mount a Kadee coupler (best to use a plastic one, on this mostly metal car) > > Dick Ross, > Cleveland > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:28:18 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] More from the Library of Congress If you go to: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/hhquery.html and enter "pennsylvania railroad" in the search box, you'll get a list of 100 entries. Unfortnately some of those entries will lead you to "Images not yet digitized" and others will lead you to "Cross reference only see: something-or-other" and others will lead to "Unprocessed material" but all-in-all, there's a tasty selection. Folks who may have wondered about the wye bridge at Oil City will find 5 aerial views of that wonder, for example. I haven't tried it, but "pennsylvania rr" or "prr" might turn up other materials as well. Enjoy. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:07:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Creamer & Sugar Dish In a message dated 3/11/02 11:04:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, RamblingReck@att.net writes: << It's not anything the PRR ever had, so I can't call it a fake. >> They were even sold at the RRMoPa. - I've got the matching coffee cup and Xmas ornament Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Scale Test Car Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:10:32 -0500 Listers, A nice all metal (zamac/pewter?) HO PRR scale test car is made by Stewart/Virnex (the people who make car washer models). I believe Walthers also made a plastic one at one time. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:05:30 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS modeling room Howdy y'all, Only 51 modeling days to the PRRT&HS meeting! The program looks fantastic! Do you have any models that might complement it? Bring them! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:06:40 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers I just bought some of these myself. They are lovely. It is the end of my fame as the author of the 1987 MR article on kitbashing a stand in for them. However, I have come across one more reason to detest the disappearance of kits. One of my reefers is missing a ladder. I called Walthers. (BTW the "recorder" number they give is actually hooked up to a FAX machine!) They can not send me a new ladder because they don't have any parts! All the parts are in China! I have to ship them my car and they will send me a new one. I haven't gone to the Post Office yet, but I'll bet the cost of shipping is an appreciable percentage of the cost of the original car! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Dave Hopson wrote: > Hello List, > > I got a pair of the new REA Express Reefers by Walthers. This car > should make a lot of PRR modelers happy, since so many PRR passenger and > Mail train had these cars on the head end. > I bought the "REA Express" paint scheme version from the early > 60s. Now I can run some nice Mail trains with a string of X29s and these > new REA reefers. I got to weather these cars. I never saw a clean REA > car! > They sell for about $24.00 ready to run. To me that is a bit > pricey. And you have to install the grab irons > yourself. Overall, it's a nice car to add to your model passenger > trains. > > Dave Hopson > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] J-1a #6480 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:48:26 +0000 PRR Listers: I have a question regarding this J-1a. According to the MP 229 dated 11/1/44, this engine was assigned in the St. Louis Division. It is my understanding that these engine assignments could be fluid, and locomotives could be re-assigned to other divisions as traffic demand warrants. This could be especially true during WW II. Does anyone have another MP 229 in the mid to late 1940's showing the assignments of 6480? If anyone has such information, please contact me off list. Thank you in advance! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana P.S. There is one known photo of 6480, it is found in "Pennsy Steam Years" Volumes 2 and 3. It shows 6480 hauling a eastbound coal train through Bourbon, Indiana on July 4, 1951. This picture is unusual in that the use of J-1's on the Fort Wayne line west of Crestline, (a.k.a. "The Speedway") was discouraged since these engines tended to be rough on the rails and track. A beat up speedway meant rough riding and even slow orders for the Broadway Limited and the rest of the Blue Ribbon Fleet; a mortal sin back in those days! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:21:01 -0500 Listers, What era is this REA reefer? What era is the Branchline REA Reefer going to be? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:31:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers From: Jerry Britton On 3/12/02 10:21 AM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > > What era is this REA reefer? > > > What era is the Branchline REA Reefer going to be? > If I recall, the forthcoming (yeah, right) Branchline reefer represents as-built units from the late 1940's into the early 1950's. They are also offering re-paints representing the 1960 era. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:46:26 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers Chris, There were two distinct batches of somewhat similar REA reefers. In 1947-48 a group was built with welded bodies, a low arch roof, and heavyweight style 4-wheel passenger car trucks. Branchline will be doing these cars. The Walthers car represents the series done in 1955-57. They are riveted, have overhanging eaves - diagonal pattern roofs, and ride on later express reefer style trucks. Typical of the model RR world - for years we had nothing (but brass), now we have it all. I fully expect IHC, Rivarossi, P2K, I/M, Athearn, and Stewart to announce one within the year ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > Listers, > > What era is this REA reefer? > > What era is the Branchline REA Reefer going to be? > > Chris Chany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:09:00 +0000 Gentlemen: I believe that Walthers is doing 3 separate REA paint and lettering schemes for thier reefers. Does anyone know the approximate years that these paint schemes were used? Ted Andrews _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] J-1a #6480 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:42:11 -0500 What is the MP 229? This is one I'm not familiar with. (If it's what I think it is, where can I vew/download it from the internet?) Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Andrews" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:48 AM Subject: [PRR] J-1a #6480 > PRR Listers: > > I have a question regarding this J-1a. According to the MP 229 dated > 11/1/44, this engine was assigned in the St. Louis Division. It is my > understanding that these engine assignments could be fluid, and locomotives > could be re-assigned to other divisions as traffic demand warrants. This > could be especially true during WW II. > > Does anyone have another MP 229 in the mid to late 1940's showing the > assignments of 6480? If anyone has such information, please contact me off > list. > > Thank you in advance! > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > P.S. There is one known photo of 6480, it is found in "Pennsy Steam Years" > Volumes 2 and 3. It shows 6480 hauling a eastbound coal train through > Bourbon, Indiana on July 4, 1951. This picture is unusual in that the use of > J-1's on the Fort Wayne line west of Crestline, (a.k.a. "The Speedway") was > discouraged since these engines tended to be rough on the rails and track. A > beat up speedway meant rough riding and even slow orders for the Broadway > Limited and the rest of the Blue Ribbon Fleet; a mortal sin back in those > days! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:56:29 +0000 Yeah but today's logic is the opposite of what it has always been. Today you see if you can sell the most expensive kit in the field which somehow insures that you will sell out. I'm still tyring to figure out how to justify $25.00 plastic freight cars. I can imagine my reaction to a string of Kadee Ps-1's following each other into the great chasm as a unit. Norm Bell > Chris, > > There were two distinct batches of somewhat similar REA reefers. In > 1947-48 a group was built with welded bodies, a low arch roof, and > heavyweight style 4-wheel passenger car trucks. Branchline will be doing > these cars. > > The Walthers car represents the series done in 1955-57. They are riveted, > have overhanging eaves - diagonal pattern roofs, and ride on later express > reefer style trucks. > > Typical of the model RR world - for years we had nothing (but brass), now > we have it all. I fully expect IHC, Rivarossi, P2K, I/M, Athearn, and > Stewart to announce one within the year ;-) > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > ================================================== > "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > > > Listers, > > > > What era is this REA reefer? > > > > What era is the Branchline REA Reefer going to be? > > > > Chris Chany > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > -- > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:03:27 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Fw: old models From: Roger P Hensley Anyone here have a suggestion for the lady? Reply directly to her, not to me. Roger Hensley --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "kathy heffernan" Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:36:39 -0500 Subject: old models I was wondering if you could assist me. I have some old Bowser models that my grandfather had assembled from 1986. They are: Pennsylvania M-1 Mountain 4-8-2 kit #100430 - paid $149.95 USRA Style 2-10-2 Locomotive & Tender kit #100730 - paid $139.95 PRRR I-1 2-10-0 Decapod kit $100700 - paid $unknown I was interested in selling them - not certain what there current value would be. Perhaps you could recommend a source that I could contact if you cannot help directly. Thanks Kathy Heffernan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:22:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers Hello List, Well, I guess we shoud be happy wth what Walthers has built. Though the cars don't have steam lines and add on grab irons, better than buying brass cars at 100 bucks a piece! I'm going to get about 10 more cars at the Timonium Show. I have the 1960s Hunter Green and the Chromate Green (light green) cars. It was more common to see the Hunter Green cars on PRR trains. I've seen photos of the light green reefers but they were few and far apart. Since I model 60s PRR into Penn Central, these cars fit my late Pennsy passenger trains. 15 to 20 mail and express cars with two coaches. Maybe some X29s behind the coaches. Maybe an express cabin car? Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:53:36 EST Subject: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers asmiller@mitre.org writes: << Typical of the model RR world - for years we had nothing (but brass), now we have it all. I fully expect IHC, Rivarossi, P2K, I/M, Athearn, and Stewart to announce one within the year ;-) Regards, Andy Miller >> Well Gize, On the Positive spin we could hope that one would do the Wood Version and one would do the re-builds! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:27:35 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Decals Hey yuze Gize, I just received the sample of two different sets of MICROSCALE decals one of the revised 87-21 PRR Hood Diesel set and a new set of Boxcar decals never before released that I can tell. I have not torn into them as of yet but will report back on the accuaracy on Thursday night. First impression of the diesel set... Steve Hoxie can you say B-U-F-F ? Not like as in Y-E-L-L-O-W! But more later as I have a deadline I am working on. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Colman Gerald Subject: [PRR] Fleet of Modernism Scalecoat Paint Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:37:30 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CA83.75C250C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To List: I was wondering if anyone can provide mixing formulas, using Scalecoat Paints, for the 1938 PRR Fleet-of-Modernism passenger cars. I need to match the following three colors, ref: "Pennsylvania Railroad, Passenger Car Painting and Lettering" Charles Blardone Jr & Peter Tilp, PRRT&HS: 1) PRR Maroon #47-2249 Used for Window Bands 2) PRR Tuscan Red #47-2424 Used for Body 3) PRR Synthetic Buff #47-3294 Used for Lettering and Stripes Thanks in advance for your help, Jerry Colman ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CA83.75C250C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fleet of Modernism Scalecoat Paint

To List:

I was wondering if anyone can provide mixing = formulas, using Scalecoat Paints, for the 1938 PRR Fleet-of-Modernism = passenger cars.

I need to match the following three colors, ref: = "Pennsylvania Railroad, Passenger Car Painting and = Lettering"  Charles Blardone Jr & Peter Tilp, = PRRT&HS:

1) PRR Maroon #47-2249  Used for Window = Bands
2) PRR Tuscan Red = #47-2424      Used for Body
3) PRR Synthetic Buff #47-3294  Used for = Lettering and Stripes

Thanks in advance for your help,
Jerry Colman




------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CA83.75C250C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Passenger truck drawings needed Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:51:08 -0500 Hi All, I would like to buy, borrow or trade for any PRR drawings or photos that you may have of the following passenger trucks. 3D5P2 3D7P2 2EP5 I have TONS of PRR material to trade. I am sure we can work something out. Please reply to billlane@snip.net because I don't receive email from all my lists. Thank You Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:34:29 -0500 H'lo Y'all: Quick question for ya. Saw those ads for the Roadnames for the Russian Decapod from Bachmann in HO. One of the Roads was Frisco. If I'm not mistaken (though I probably am..) Isn't the Strasburg #90 an Ex Frisco Decapod? If so, How does this new model measure up as a Strasburg Model for #90? Just thinkin out loud here. Always looking for the Poor Man's Substitute for the Brass Models. Slowly (15 years and counting) assembling a Strasburg Tourist Roster to model the run as it exists today. Thought this one might turn out to be the next addition. Thanks in Advance Broadway@pa.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Decals Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:12:18 -0600 I've bought the same numbered Micorscale decal sets at different times, and the Buff color is different for some of the sets. -----Original Message----- From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com [mailto:TGREGMRTN@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 1:28 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; NEModelers@yahoogroups.com; RAILROADmodeler@yahoogroups.com; rpm@hhcustom.com Subject: [PRR] PRR Decals Hey yuze Gize, I just received the sample of two different sets of MICROSCALE decals one of the revised 87-21 PRR Hood Diesel set and a new set of Boxcar decals never before released that I can tell. I have not torn into them as of yet but will report back on the accuaracy on Thursday night. First impression of the diesel set... Steve Hoxie can you say B-U-F-F ? Not like as in Y-E-L-L-O-W! But more later as I have a deadline I am working on. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:15:01 -0600 Strasburg engine is not an ex-Frisco, and is not of the Russian design. -----Original Message----- From: broadway@pa.net [mailto:broadway@pa.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:34 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod H'lo Y'all: Quick question for ya. Saw those ads for the Roadnames for the Russian Decapod from Bachmann in HO. One of the Roads was Frisco. If I'm not mistaken (though I probably am..) Isn't the Strasburg #90 an Ex Frisco Decapod? If so, How does this new model measure up as a Strasburg Model for #90? Just thinkin out loud here. Always looking for the Poor Man's Substitute for the Brass Models. Slowly (15 years and counting) assembling a Strasburg Tourist Roster to model the run as it exists today. Thought this one might turn out to be the next addition. Thanks in Advance Broadway@pa.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:21:19 -0500 No, the Strasburg 2-10-0 is from the Great Western Railway of Colorado. It is NOT a Russian Decapod. Baldwin built a series of Decapods for short lines in the 1920's and 1930's As a matter of fact, the only locomotives ordered (or built, I can't remember) in 1933 were Decapods for the Durham & Southern. This type of 2-10-0 and one Russian, ran on the Gainesville Midland in Goergia until 1960. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:34 AM Subject: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod > H'lo Y'all: Quick question for ya. Saw those ads for the Roadnames for the > Russian Decapod from Bachmann in HO. One of the Roads was Frisco. If I'm not > mistaken (though I probably am..) Isn't the Strasburg #90 an Ex Frisco > Decapod? If so, How does this new model measure up as a Strasburg Model for > #90? Just thinkin out loud here. Always looking for the Poor Man's > Substitute for the Brass Models. Slowly (15 years and counting) assembling a > Strasburg Tourist Roster to model the run as it exists today. Thought this > one might turn out to be the next addition. Thanks in Advance > Broadway@pa.net > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Speaking of Russian Decs, Once again a request goes out for any list members having ever seen a photo of these in PRR paint? According to an early issue of the "Keystone" (wether correct or not) the Pennsy supposedly used several of these 2-10-0's for several years at Conway Yard as trimmer locos. I believe the statement said they were too light for PRR use and was taken off the property? Anyway, the subject of Russian Decs comes up from time to time and maybe the newer members here have proof. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: [PRR] PRR Talk list Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:44 -0500 Dear friends: I really appreciate reading this list. I've never subscribed to a specific subject list that has so many really knowledgeable members, and helpful ones too. The tone is generally kind and warm, like everyone is family. Wish I could do more to contribute, sometimes I feel I'm on the receiving end too often. Anyway, thanks to everyone for interesting reading and vast sums of knowledge!!!!! Lew Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, sustainable Septic and Energy Systems Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:12:09 EST Subject: [PRR] Pre-WWII Billboards --part1_a.1b806f96.29c0c649_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PRR List, This was posted to a CNJ site. As it covers billboards in the PRR territory of NJ, NY and PA and includes several RR and trolley shots, I thought you might be interested. Find the K-4 pulled passenger trains. Hint: They are in the 1920's listings. http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/dynaweb/eaa/databases/maxwell/@Generic_BookVie w Enjoy! Evan Leisey --part1_a.1b806f96.29c0c649_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PRR List,

 This was posted to a CNJ site.  As it covers billboards in the PRR territory of NJ, NY and PA and includes several RR and trolley shots, I thought you might be interested.   Find the K-4 pulled passenger trains.   Hint: They are in the 1920's listings.

http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/dynaweb/eaa/databases/maxwell/@Generic_BookView

 Enjoy!

 Evan Leisey --part1_a.1b806f96.29c0c649_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:27:27 -0500 From: "David Luciano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod/SRR #90 A brass model for the Strasburg RR/Great Western RR #90 was produced by Empire Midland back in 1979, qty 300 For assistance in modeling Strasburg Railroad, check out our club website for pictures of this brass model as well our HO Scale model of Strasburg RR & Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania www.trainweb.org/smrc Dave Luciano Strasburg Model Railroad Club ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Reply-To: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:34:29 -0500 >H'lo Y'all: Quick question for ya. Saw those ads for the Roadnames for the >Russian Decapod from Bachmann in HO. One of the Roads was Frisco. If I'm not >mistaken (though I probably am..) Isn't the Strasburg #90 an Ex Frisco >Decapod? If so, How does this new model measure up as a Strasburg Model for >#90? Just thinkin out loud here. Always looking for the Poor Man's >Substitute for the Brass Models. Slowly (15 years and counting) assembling a >Strasburg Tourist Roster to model the run as it exists today. Thought this >one might turn out to be the next addition. Thanks in Advance >Broadway@pa.net > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:44:13 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers And definitely a B-60b or 2. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Dave Hopson wrote: > Hello List, > > Well, I guess we shoud be happy wth what Walthers has built. > Though the cars don't have steam lines and add on grab irons, better > than buying brass cars at 100 bucks a piece! > I'm going to get about 10 more cars at the Timonium Show. I have > the 1960s Hunter Green and the Chromate Green (light green) cars. It was > more common to see the Hunter Green cars on PRR trains. I've seen photos > of the light green reefers but they were few and far apart. > Since I model 60s PRR into Penn Central, these cars fit my late > Pennsy passenger trains. > 15 to 20 mail and express cars with two coaches. Maybe some X29s behind > the coaches. Maybe an express cabin car? > Dave Hopson > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton" Subject: RE: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:17:51 -0000 The Strasburg engine was a Baldwin standard decapod of the twenties and a good deal larger than then the Frisco engines. 90 came from hauling sugar beets on the Great Western in Colorado. These later decapods were used by a good many short lines and one or two class one RRs, and might make a good future plastic steamer project for someone but I don't *think* any operated in the are serviced by the PRR until the Strasburg RR brought in number 90 Aidrian Isn't the Strasburg #90 an Ex Frisco ~Decapod? If so, How does this new model measure up as a Strasburg Model for ~#90? Just thinkin out loud here. Always looking for the Poor Man's ~Substitute for the Brass Models. Slowly (15 years and counting) assembling ~a ~Strasburg Tourist Roster to model the run as it exists today. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/2002 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:51:08 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] EQ=Passenger truck drawings needed Hi All, I would like to buy, borrow or trade for any PRR drawings or photos that you may have of the following passenger trucks. 3D5P2 3D7P2 2EP5 I have TONS of PRR material to trade. I am sure we can work something out. Please reply to billlane@snip.net because I don't receive email from all my lists. Thank You Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere It's Easy. It's Fun. - Free Download http://us.click.yahoo.com/xnjxPB/0akDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] modeling putty Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:12:18 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C1CA88.52066B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; I just got back into train modeling after 35 years or so away from it. = I am scratchbuilding a number of items am using the white putty from = Squadron (that is what I used those many years ago). Altho useable, this = putty does have shortcomings. Can anybody recommend a better filler that = is easy to use and quite sandable? Earl Myers 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C1CA88.52066B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
  I just got back into train = modeling after 35=20 years or so away from it. I am scratchbuilding a number of items am = using the=20 white putty from Squadron (that is what I used those many years ago). = Altho=20 useable, this putty does have shortcomings. Can anybody recommend a = better=20 filler that is easy to use and quite sandable?
Earl Myers
1/29th scale
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C1CA88.52066B80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:40:04 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pre-WWII Billboards Evan- Bad link- The requested template or script "Generic_BookView" could not be found! Eddie RDG2124@aol.com wrote: > > PRR List, > > This was posted to a CNJ site. As it covers billboards in the PRR > territory of NJ, NY and PA and includes several RR and trolley shots, > I thought you might be interested. Find the K-4 pulled passenger > trains. Hint: They are in the 1920's listings. > > http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/dynaweb/eaa/databases/maxwell/@Generic_BookView > > Enjoy! > > Evan Leisey ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:59:52 -0500 From: Fred Kunchick Subject: Re: [PRR] Pre-WWII Billboards Doc just use http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/dynaweb/eaa/databases/maxwell/ Fred Frederick H. Kunchick Jr. GSCS(SW) USN(Retired) Independent AMSOIL Account Direct http://www.lubedealer.com/kunchick/index.htm Member Strasburg Model Railroad Club http://www.trainweb.org/smrc/index.html Host of ALHN/AHGP New Hampshire Civil War History and Genealogy Project http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nh/topic/civilwar/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Pre-WWII Billboards > Evan- > > Bad link- > > The requested template or script "Generic_BookView" could not be found! > > Eddie > > RDG2124@aol.com wrote: > > > > PRR List, > > > > This was posted to a CNJ site. As it covers billboards in the PRR > > territory of NJ, NY and PA and includes several RR and trolley shots, > > I thought you might be interested. Find the K-4 pulled passenger > > trains. Hint: They are in the 1920's listings. > > > > http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/dynaweb/eaa/databases/maxwell/@Generic_BookV iew > > > > Enjoy! > > > > Evan Leisey > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:01:00 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Pre-WWII Billboards --part1_f7.17c94a0d.29c0fbec_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had the same problem ! Jon S. --part1_f7.17c94a0d.29c0fbec_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had the same problem !

Jon S. --part1_f7.17c94a0d.29c0fbec_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:28:02 -0600 Subject: [PRR] FW: jpeg From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" A non PRR-Talk member with whom I have corresponded asked me to forward this to the group. Basically he wants to know about the stamped letters and numbers on his bell. Neither of us are sure if the number is the number of the engine to which the bell was originally assigned. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- From: "Schuyler G Larrabee" To: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Subject: Re: jpeg Date: Tue, 12 Mar, 2002, 22:34 Geez, Don, that was one ferociously huge file, but I am glad to have it. To hell with the hopper, though; what I was glad to see was the bell on the locomotive (and what a great shot of the engine, too!) because I have a bell down in the dining room (where else would you keep a bell?) which is an exact duplicate of that bell. I got it when the local Museum of Transportation was moving from a suburban location to a downtown Boston space. To finance that, they sold off a bunch of stuff, including a bell of uncertain heritage ("Somebody said they thought it was a New Haven bell . . .") but the NH didn't have any bells like that one that I've been able to find. I've suspected it was a PRR bell for some time, since I noticed that some PRR bells looked a lot like that, sunken into the lagging and all. It was a hell of a deal: $300. Do you know anything about PRR bells? Or know anyone who does? Mine has markings on it, on the top flat machined surface of the bell itself. One mark is "AMS" and the other is a number: 2119. I've heard a speculation, and that's all it was, that the first was for "Altoona Metal Shop." I have found photos of locomotives with numbers preceding 2119, and following 2119, but not of 2119 itself. I know that PRR's numbers weren't necessarily sequential in a class, but the engines below and above are the same type (I don't recall what they were) and all had pretty much the same bell, or as much so as I could tell. So, thanks for ringing my bell! SGL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:43:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: jpeg Don, Can you forward the actual photo of the Bell to me. From I what I have read in your emails to this person, it sounds (no pun intended) like a PRR Bell. Especially if it has AMS marked on it. Is this just the Bell or the Cradle also? And indeed 2119 was a PRR Loco. An H6 2-8-0. Probably later an H6sb?. Anyway, the AMS stands for Altoona Machine Shop. My K4 Bell is marked J N. I assume it stands for Juniata. But I was once told (from a very knowledgable person) that J N was actually the shop workers Initials. I am still trying to confirm that one. Again, please send the jpeg my way.....Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:57:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Northern Central Bridge at Marysville/Dauphin From: Jerry Britton This may not be news to some, but it was to me... I knew that the current Rockville Bridge was a joint project of the PRR and the Northern Central Railway. Until it opened in 1902, the PRR had its own bridge, roughly at the current site, and the NCRy had its bridge slightly west. The piers of the latter remain today, and one holds the small version of the "Statue of Liberty". One of the many negative situations with this setup was that the NCRy and the PRR had a crossing AT GRADE. Anyway, at the last Northern Central Chapter meeting, Ivan Frantz had a map, prepared by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, showing all rail routes. It was dated circa 1900 (I don't recall the exact year). I noticed immediately that the NCRy bridge was missing. I, and others present, felt that this was an error. Last evening I had the privilege of attending the opening reception of the new William Rau exhibit of photographs at The Library Company in Philadelphia. One of the photos on display was taken from on top of the previous (2nd) Rockville Bridge, looking up stream. In the hazy distance, the piers (no bridge) of the NCRy crossing could be seen. I had always thought that the NCRy bridge was in service until the new (3rd) Rockville Bridge opened. No so! Dan Cupper confirmed and expanded to say that the NCRy bridge was actually out of service for several years prior to the opening of the new bridge. Northbound trains on the NCRy would travel into Marysville Yard and either run power around or get new power on the back end, then head south/east over the PRR's Rockville Bridge (2nd), and then north on the NCRy's line to Sunbury. RELATED: Dan will have a book coming out next month on the history of the Rockville Bridge. This year marks 100 years of service. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:36:06 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: jpeg From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" You should be a member. Here is a response to your question from Gary Mittner. You two guys need to communicate with each other, but how about including the rest of us in the exchange. - - - - - From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) To: harperd@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (Donald E. Harper, Jr) Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: jpeg Date: Wed, 13 Mar, 2002, 13:43 Don, Can you forward the actual photo of the Bell to me. From I what I have read in your emails to this person, it sounds (no pun intended) like a PRR Bell. Especially if it has AMS marked on it. Is this just the Bell or the Cradle also? And indeed 2119 was a PRR Loco. An H6 2-8-0. Probably later an H6sb?. Anyway, the AMS stands for Altoona Machine Shop. My K4 Bell is marked J N. I assume it stands for Juniata. But I was once told (from a very knowledgable person) that J N was actually the shop workers Initials. I am still trying to confirm that one. Again, please send the jpeg my way.....Thanks, Gary Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- >From: "Schuyler G Larrabee" >To: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" >Subject: Re: jpeg >Date: Wed, 13 Mar, 2002, 9:06 > > I'd love to but I'm not a member of that group. Mind posting it for me? > > SGL > >> You ought to put that question to the group as a whole. >> >> >> Don >> >> ---------- >> >From: "Schuyler G Larrabee" >> >To: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" >> >Subject: Re: jpeg >> >Date: Tue, 12 Mar, 2002, 22:34 >> > >> >> > Geez, Don, that was one ferociously huge file, but I am glad to have it. > To >> > hell with the hopper, though; what I was glad to see was the bell on the >> > locomotive (and what a great shot of the engine, too!) because I have a > bell >> > down in the dining room (where else would you keep a bell?) which is an >> > exact duplicate of that bell. >> > >> > I got it when the local Museum of Transportation was moving from a > suburban >> > location to a downtown Boston space. To finance that, they sold off a > bunch >> > of stuff, including a bell of uncertain heritage ("Somebody said they >> > thought it was a New Haven bell . . .") but the NH didn't have any bells >> > like that one that I've been able to find. I've suspected it was a PRR > bell >> > for some time, since I noticed that some PRR bells looked a lot like > that, >> > sunken into the lagging and all. >> > >> > It was a hell of a deal: $300. >> > >> > Do you know anything about PRR bells? Or know anyone who does? Mine > has >> > markings on it, on the top flat machined surface of the bell itself. > One >> > mark is "AMS" and the other is a number: 2119. I've heard a > speculation, >> > and that's all it was, that the first was for "Altoona Metal Shop." I > have >> > found photos of locomotives with numbers preceding 2119, and following > 2119, >> > but not of 2119 itself. I know that PRR's numbers weren't necessarily >> > sequential in a class, but the engines below and above are the same type > (I >> > don't recall what they were) and all had pretty much the same bell, or > as >> > much so as I could tell. >> > >> > So, thanks for ringing my bell! >> > >> > SGL >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Donald E. Harper, Jr >> > To: Schuyler G Larrabee >> > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:26 PM >> > Subject: Re: jpeg >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Don Harper >> >> Texas A&M Marine Lab >> >> 5007 Avenue U >> >> Galveston, TX 77551 >> >> 409/740-4540 >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------- >> >> >From: "Schuyler G Larrabee" >> >> >To: >> >> >Subject: jpeg >> >> >Date: Fri, 08 Mar, 2002, 21:15 >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Don, I'd like to see the image that Andy's talking about in this > post. >> >> > Thanks in advance. >> >> > >> >> > Schuyler Larrabee >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Don Harper just offered up a great photo of a PRR I1sa. As usual, > while >> >> > everyone else stares at the engine, I stare at the rolling stock! >> >> > >> >> > In the background is an unusual hopper. It appears to be quad or >> >> > triple. It has an end reminiscent of a PRR H-21 or GLA with the > heavy >> >> > end sill and back to back angle vertical supports, but it has an > offset >> >> > side! The reporting marks are BSCo. The lowercase "o" and the lack > of >> >> > an "X" should date the picture prior to some date, the one where >> >> > lowercase letters were barred and the one where private owners had to >> >> > use the "X" suffix. >> >> > >> >> > Is BSCo Bethlehem Steel Co? Any guesses from the clue as to when > this >> >> > photo was taken? >> >> > >> >> > For those of you freight car aficionado's not on the PRR list who did >> >> > not get the original post, he offered the jpeg file off line with an >> >> > email to him at : >> >> > >> >> > "Donald E. Harper, Jr" >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Regards, >> >> > >> >> > Andy Miller >> >> > asmiller@mitre.org >> >> > >> >> > ================================================== >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Is this a PRR line? Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:24:52 -0500 Got this from the Conrail Society. Is this an old PRR line? Chris Chany CRTS Update #02-61 Sunday, February 24th, 2002 at 19:25 EST DORMANT RAIL LINE TO RE-OPEN: The long-dormant rail line between Jamestown, NY and Corry, PA is slated for reactivation on Friday, March 1st, 2002. The line of the Western New York and Pennsylvania Railroad has been out of service for approximately 11 years, having been last used by Conrail. It was deactivated by Conrail in 1991 and passed to Norfolk Southern ownership in 1999. Last April, the Falconer-based Western New York & Pennsylvania Railroad Railroad (WNYP) leased it for thirty years. WNYP presently operates freight service between Falconer and Olean serving several industries in the local area. The reopening of the line to Corry will allow a connection to Norfolk Southern in Meadville, PA, resulting in more direct routing of freight shipments for local industry. The reactivated rail line passes though Jamestown, Celoron, Lakewood, Ashville, Watts Flats, and Niobe in New York as well as Lottsville and Columbus in Pennsylvania before entering Corry. Temporary improvements have been made at many of the rail highway crossings in the area. Some crossings now require the train to stop and be flagged by a crew member, while other crossings allow the trains to proceed with the usual "whistle and bell" warnings. In addition, the railroad will be applying for funding to upgrade many crossings. Some of the crossings that will become active again include Lister Street in Jamestown, Livingston and Jackson Avenue in Celoron, Chautauqua Avenue in Lakewood, Hunt Road in Ashville and Kort Wright Road in Niobe. Four major crossings are located on the rail line in Pennsylvania: State Route 957 and 958 in Lottsville, Scotts Crossing Road in Columbus and Shady Avenue in Corry. Numerous county and local highways also cross the rail line in this area. Motorists are asked to be attentive when approaching the crossings, and are reminded that pursuant to state law the train has the right of way. For Immediate Release Contact: Stephen M. Timko, General Manager ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Is this a PRR line? Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:53:02 -0500 Chris, No that is part of the once mighty main line of the Erie between Jersey City and Chicago! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 4:24 PM Subject: [PRR] Is this a PRR line? > Got this from the Conrail Society. Is this an old PRR line? > > Chris Chany > > CRTS Update #02-61 > Sunday, February 24th, 2002 at 19:25 EST > > DORMANT RAIL LINE TO RE-OPEN: > The long-dormant rail line between Jamestown, NY and Corry, PA is slated > for reactivation on Friday, March 1st, 2002. > > The line of the Western New York and Pennsylvania Railroad has been out > of service for approximately 11 years, having been last used by Conrail. > It was deactivated by Conrail in 1991 and passed to Norfolk Southern > ownership in 1999. Last April, the Falconer-based Western New York & > Pennsylvania Railroad Railroad (WNYP) leased it for thirty years. > > WNYP presently operates freight service between Falconer and Olean > serving several industries in the local area. The reopening of the line > to Corry will allow a connection to Norfolk Southern in Meadville, PA, > resulting in more direct routing of freight shipments for local > industry. > > The reactivated rail line passes though Jamestown, Celoron, Lakewood, > Ashville, Watts Flats, and Niobe in New York as well as Lottsville and > Columbus in Pennsylvania before entering Corry. > > Temporary improvements have been made at many of the rail highway > crossings in the area. Some crossings now require the train to stop and > be flagged by a crew member, while other crossings allow the trains to > proceed with the usual "whistle and bell" warnings. In addition, the > railroad will be applying for funding to upgrade many crossings. Some of > the crossings that will become active again include Lister Street in > Jamestown, Livingston and Jackson Avenue in Celoron, Chautauqua Avenue > in Lakewood, Hunt Road in > Ashville and Kort Wright Road in Niobe. > > Four major crossings are located on the rail line in Pennsylvania: State > Route 957 and 958 in Lottsville, Scotts Crossing Road in Columbus and > Shady Avenue in Corry. Numerous county and local highways also cross the > rail line in this area. > > Motorists are asked to be attentive when approaching the crossings, and > are reminded that pursuant to state law the train has the right of way. > > For Immediate Release > Contact: Stephen M. Timko, General Manager > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:50:27 -0500 From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Is this a PRR line? On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 04:24:52PM -0500, Chany, Christopher wrote: In a word, no. It's the Erie main line. (Although the PRR did go to a number of the towns listed.) > Got this from the Conrail Society. Is this an old PRR line? > > Chris Chany > > CRTS Update #02-61 > Sunday, February 24th, 2002 at 19:25 EST > > DORMANT RAIL LINE TO RE-OPEN: > The long-dormant rail line between Jamestown, NY and Corry, PA is slated > for reactivation on Friday, March 1st, 2002. > > The line of the Western New York and Pennsylvania Railroad has been out > of service for approximately 11 years, having been last used by Conrail. > It was deactivated by Conrail in 1991 and passed to Norfolk Southern > ownership in 1999. Last April, the Falconer-based Western New York & > Pennsylvania Railroad Railroad (WNYP) leased it for thirty years. > > WNYP presently operates freight service between Falconer and Olean > serving several industries in the local area. The reopening of the line > to Corry will allow a connection to Norfolk Southern in Meadville, PA, > resulting in more direct routing of freight shipments for local > industry. > > The reactivated rail line passes though Jamestown, Celoron, Lakewood, > Ashville, Watts Flats, and Niobe in New York as well as Lottsville and > Columbus in Pennsylvania before entering Corry. > > Temporary improvements have been made at many of the rail highway > crossings in the area. Some crossings now require the train to stop and > be flagged by a crew member, while other crossings allow the trains to > proceed with the usual "whistle and bell" warnings. In addition, the > railroad will be applying for funding to upgrade many crossings. Some of > the crossings that will become active again include Lister Street in > Jamestown, Livingston and Jackson Avenue in Celoron, Chautauqua Avenue > in Lakewood, Hunt Road in Ashville and Kort Wright Road in Niobe. > > Four major crossings are located on the rail line in Pennsylvania: State > Route 957 and 958 in Lottsville, Scotts Crossing Road in Columbus and > Shady Avenue in Corry. Numerous county and local highways also cross the > rail line in this area. > > Motorists are asked to be attentive when approaching the crossings, and > are reminded that pursuant to state law the train has the right of way. > > For Immediate Release > Contact: Stephen M. Timko, General Manager -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:01:59 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Is this a PRR line? Surprising, in this day of "NIMBYism" that a line dormant for over 10 years could reopen - We had at least 3 Congressmen involved when NS anounced plans to increase usage of the old NKP line through some swanky suburbs on the west side of Cleveland. Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:08:59 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] modeling putty An "O" scale friend highly recommends "Milliput" - a two part epoxy putty "for the restoration of porcelin - repair of antiques.....sculpting and modeling" Comes from the U.K. - he brings it back from Canada - but, I believe, it is available here. Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:22:01 -0500 Andy Probably about three or four bucks for Priority Mail plus 40 cents for delivery confirmation Jim Lash ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew S. Miller" To: "PassengerCarList" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 50' REA Express Reefers > I just bought some of these myself. They are lovely. It is the end of my > fame as the author of the 1987 MR article on kitbashing a stand in for them. > > However, I have come across one more reason to detest the disappearance of > kits. One of my reefers is missing a ladder. I called Walthers. (BTW the > "recorder" number they give is actually hooked up to a FAX machine!) They > can not send me a new ladder because they don't have any parts! All the > parts are in China! I have to ship them my car and they will send me a new > one. I haven't gone to the Post Office yet, but I'll bet the cost of > shipping is an appreciable percentage of the cost of the original car! > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > ================================================== > Dave Hopson wrote: > > > Hello List, > > > > I got a pair of the new REA Express Reefers by Walthers. This car > > should make a lot of PRR modelers happy, since so many PRR passenger and > > Mail train had these cars on the head end. > > I bought the "REA Express" paint scheme version from the early > > 60s. Now I can run some nice Mail trains with a string of X29s and these > > new REA reefers. I got to weather these cars. I never saw a clean REA > > car! > > They sell for about $24.00 ready to run. To me that is a bit > > pricey. And you have to install the grab irons > > yourself. Overall, it's a nice car to add to your model passenger > > trains. > > > > Dave Hopson > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > -- > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: Re: [PRR] modeling putty Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:37:52 -0500 Dick, The first outlet that comes to mind is the MicropMark tool catalog. I'm sure there are others in the U.S. Jim Lash ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] modeling putty > An "O" scale friend highly recommends "Milliput" - a two part epoxy putty > "for the restoration of porcelin - repair of antiques.....sculpting and > modeling" Comes from the U.K. - he brings it back from Canada - but, I > believe, it is available here. > > Dick Ross > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:47:28 -0500 From: "Michael A. Hmel" Subject: Re: [PRR] modeling putty Hi Dick , Jim is right , Micro mark has " Milliput " for sale . I just got a magazine in the mail so I decided to look through it . Their address is www.micromark.com , they also list the Squadron green putty that you previously mentioned . Thay claim the the squadron is the " best " modelers putty .... Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:57:45 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] modeling putty In a message dated 3/13/02 6:17:24 PM Central Standard Time, VVA249@aol.com writes: << An "O" scale friend highly recommends "Milliput" - a two part epoxy putty "for the restoration of porcelin - repair of antiques.....sculpting and modeling" Comes from the U.K. - he brings it back from Canada - but, I believe, it is available here. >> Micro Mark catalog. My putty of preference, too. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Attn: Clyde Couse Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:02:01 -0500 HI All, I am sorry for posting this, but Clyde Couse, my returned messages to you keep bouncing as undeliverable. Please send the extra print of tracing 44846 for the 3D5P2 truck to me at: Bill Lane Jr. 525 Warwick RD. Deptford NJ 08096 Thank You, Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] modeling putty Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:07:45 -0500 Dear Earl, I have used both Squadron green and white putties. However, I am now using Dr. Microtools putty. It is very fine, doesn't shrink, and is easy to sand. A well stocked hobby shop(not model railroad shop) should have it. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Earl Myers [mailto:emyers5@neo.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:12 PM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] modeling putty Gents; I just got back into train modeling after 35 years or so away from it. I am scratchbuilding a number of items am using the white putty from Squadron (that is what I used those many years ago). Altho useable, this putty does have shortcomings. Can anybody recommend a better filler that is easy to use and quite sandable? Earl Myers 1/29th scale ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:02:01 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Attn: Clyde Couse HI All, I am sorry for posting this, but Clyde Couse, my returned messages to you keep bouncing as undeliverable. Please send the extra print of tracing 44846 for the 3D5P2 truck to me at: Bill Lane Jr. 525 Warwick RD. Deptford NJ 08096 Thank You, Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere It's Easy. It's Fast. - Free Download http://us.click.yahoo.com/2njxPB/zakDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:26:12 EST Subject: [PRR] Billboards --part1_17e.50157ea.29c21b14_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lists, Do not know what the problem would be that prevents the site from being entered. It works okay for me. Here is the address again as copied from the posting: http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/dynaweb/eaa/databases/maxwell/@Generic__BookVi ew Good Luck Evan --part1_17e.50157ea.29c21b14_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lists,

 Do not know what the problem would be that prevents the site from being entered.  It works okay for me.  Here is the address again as copied from the posting:

 http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/dynaweb/eaa/databases/maxwell/@Generic__BookView

 Good Luck

 Evan --part1_17e.50157ea.29c21b14_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Is this a PRR line? Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:02:12 -0500 If I'm not mistaken it was Erie RR. Can someone else cofirm or deny? Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 4:24 PM Subject: [PRR] Is this a PRR line? > Got this from the Conrail Society. Is this an old PRR line? > > Chris Chany > > CRTS Update #02-61 > Sunday, February 24th, 2002 at 19:25 EST > > DORMANT RAIL LINE TO RE-OPEN: > The long-dormant rail line between Jamestown, NY and Corry, PA is slated > for reactivation on Friday, March 1st, 2002. > > The line of the Western New York and Pennsylvania Railroad has been out > of service for approximately 11 years, having been last used by Conrail. > It was deactivated by Conrail in 1991 and passed to Norfolk Southern > ownership in 1999. Last April, the Falconer-based Western New York & > Pennsylvania Railroad Railroad (WNYP) leased it for thirty years. > > WNYP presently operates freight service between Falconer and Olean > serving several industries in the local area. The reopening of the line > to Corry will allow a connection to Norfolk Southern in Meadville, PA, > resulting in more direct routing of freight shipments for local > industry. > > The reactivated rail line passes though Jamestown, Celoron, Lakewood, > Ashville, Watts Flats, and Niobe in New York as well as Lottsville and > Columbus in Pennsylvania before entering Corry. > > Temporary improvements have been made at many of the rail highway > crossings in the area. Some crossings now require the train to stop and > be flagged by a crew member, while other crossings allow the trains to > proceed with the usual "whistle and bell" warnings. In addition, the > railroad will be applying for funding to upgrade many crossings. Some of > the crossings that will become active again include Lister Street in > Jamestown, Livingston and Jackson Avenue in Celoron, Chautauqua Avenue > in Lakewood, Hunt Road in > Ashville and Kort Wright Road in Niobe. > > Four major crossings are located on the rail line in Pennsylvania: State > Route 957 and 958 in Lottsville, Scotts Crossing Road in Columbus and > Shady Avenue in Corry. Numerous county and local highways also cross the > rail line in this area. > > Motorists are asked to be attentive when approaching the crossings, and > are reminded that pursuant to state law the train has the right of way. > > For Immediate Release > Contact: Stephen M. Timko, General Manager > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SHanlon@dnr.state.md.us Subject: [PRR] greetings Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:23:35 -0500 howdy y'all, took a break from the internet while i made the transition into my new job. i am excited to be working again. unfortuately, my money situation did not allow me to promptly send out my order for a ticket on the rockville anniversary excursion and it is now sold out :( very sad about that -- i was looking forward to the rare mileage. well, just want to drop a line to lsay i was back on the list. Steven Hanlon Computer Information Services Specialist Information Technology Service 580 Taylor Ave., D4 Annapolis, Maryland 21401 Phone: 410-260-8955 Fax: 410-260-8373 ########################################### This message has been scanned for viruses. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:17:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Billboards --part1_66.1d90b571.29c2513b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Evan. I had no problem getting in. Some wonderful old pictures. Bookmarked. Pat McKinney --part1_66.1d90b571.29c2513b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Evan.
         I had no problem getting in. Some wonderful old pictures. Bookmarked.

Pat McKinney

 --part1_66.1d90b571.29c2513b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:37:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New Book Out on William Rau Photography From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" "Traveling the Pennsylvania Railroad: The Photographs of William H. Rau", edited by John C. Van Horne with Eileen Drelick. In the 1890s Philadelphia's preeminent photographer, William H. Rau, took more than 450 photographs along the routes of the Pennsylvania Railroad. Using a mammoth view camera that made 18-by-22-inch glass negatives, Rau produced a spectacular series of images for the railroad's promotional use. The remarkably detailed and texturally rich albumen prints, on deposit at the Library Company of Philadelphia, display a harmony between the railroad and the natural and industrial landscape through which it passed. The collection includes striking views not just of railcars, tracks, and stations, but also of cities and towns, bridges, ferry boats, rivers, islands, canals, tunnels, piers, industrial sites, residences, hotels, and inns along the line, mostly in Pennsylvania, but with some views also of New York, New Jersey, and Maryland. This oversize volume reproduces almost twenty percent of the photographs as full-page plates, accompanied by descriptive captions. It also includes essays by several noted scholars of the history of photography and of the railroad - John Stilgoe, Mary Panzer, and Kenneth Finkel - and will appeal to those interested in the tradition of American landscape painting and photography as well as to historians of technology, industry, and transportation, and to the community of railroad history aficionados. 272 pp. 107 Illustrations and 5 maps. $49.95. I picked up an advance copy the other night at the opening reception of the new exhibit on the subject at The Library Company in Philadelphia. Though it is much earlier than I model, some of the photos are incredible. Examples: The original Maneyunk Bridge in Philly was a beautiful (to an engineer) wood trestle in an "S" shape with two other lines winding through it. Also, the Mountain House at Cresson. Johnstown. Early shots of the second Rockville Bridge and the original Yellow Kid Pennsylvania Limited. Very enjoyable, and excellent text to accompany each photo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale -- http//kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Need Greg Stone's E-mail Address Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:16:11 -0500 Would Greg Stone (Mr Renovo) please contact me off list, or if someone knows his current e-mail address would you please send it to me? I have a lot of new Williamsport information, and he said (before I lost his address in the great computer crash of 12/01) he had a lot of new stuff on Renovo. I am planning a trip to Renovo, and he now lives near there and I'd like to get together if possible. He may well not see my e-mails, as he travels, and works nights (medical industry) and often deletes his e-mails unread to save time. Thanks in advance! Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII wbigler@stny.rr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:46:19 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Samuel Church's Lines West history Does anyone recall just how many volumes Church's history comprised? As I recall, he originally published 12 volumes and an over-all index, which was marked volume 13. Later, he published 1 or more additional volumes, recording matters which happened after the first 12 were printed. Unfortunately, the first of these additions was also marked Volume 13. Somewhere I got the idea that there were 3 volumes after the initial 12 + index, but now I'm not sure. Help please? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:43:01 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Johnstown Railfanning From: Jerry Britton Thanks for all the feedback on my query about railfanning the Johnstown area. I was amazed how many people mentioned the Coney hot dogs as a "must visit"!!! Unfortunately, my daughter woke up with the chicken pox this morning and our trip has been cancelled! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:52:08 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Fw: Juniata's Jewel From: Roger P Hensley Can anyone here help? Please reply to him and not to me. Roger Hensley --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bob/Lois Lawrence Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:37:13 -0500 Subject: Juniata's Jewel Good morning; My name is Bob Lawrence. I'm trying to find the video about the train "Juniata's Jewel". It is a PRR K4s #1361. A friend loaned his copy out and it was never returned. I am on a mission to get a new one for him. He is a former employee of PRR and Amtrak and has a collection of railroad memorabilia The Juniata video is a missing link for him. Can you point me in the right direction? Thank you for your time and help. Bob Lawrence rlawre01@ix.netcom.com 139 Eaton Ave. Mercerville, NJ 08619 609-587-4374 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:30:42 -0500 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: Juniata's Jewel In case anyone else seeks: (via google, in a bout 10 seconds...) >... 87, MS, Juniata's Jewel, Berkshire, 53, After a segment of >excellent film of K4s in action in the 30s, 40s & 50s, you'll > watch #1361 removed from her display site ... >clearsignalvideo.hypermart.net/TitleList.html best dwp (Who chased 1361, when first resteamed, many years ago...) ============================================================================ Roger P Hensley wrote: > > Can anyone here help? Please reply to him and not to me. > > Roger Hensley > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Bob/Lois Lawrence > Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:37:13 -0500 > Subject: Juniata's Jewel > > Good morning; > My name is Bob Lawrence. > I'm trying to find the video about the train "Juniata's Jewel". It > is a PRR K4s #1361. > A friend loaned his copy out and it was never returned. I am on a > mission to get a new one for him. > He is a former employee of PRR and Amtrak and has a collection of > railroad memorabilia. The Juniata video is a missing link for him. > Can you point me in the right direction? > Thank you for your time and help. > > Bob Lawrence > rlawre01@ix.netcom.com > 139 Eaton Ave. > Mercerville, NJ 08619 > 609-587-4374 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:57:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Video List, Anyone have the video titled "Juniats's Jewel" and wish to sale please let me know? Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] video-Juniata Jewel Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:30:43 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C1CC25.9B7559E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To list; I would like to obtain a copy as well of the Juniata Jewel tape. Earl Myers ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C1CC25.9B7559E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To list;
 I would like to obtain a copy as = well of the=20 Juniata Jewel tape.
Earl Myers
------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C1CC25.9B7559E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:49:57 -0500 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] video-Juniata Jewel > Earl Myers wrote: > > To list; > I would like to obtain a copy as well of the Juniata Jewel tape. > Earl Myers cf my post of a source. Tho, it turns out that's a rental place: clearsignalvideo.hypermart.net/ (note: no www ...) Also: http://www.series567railvideo.com.au/merch.html In Australia... None on ebay. (OK, i have too much time on my hands...) Seems to be an unavailable sort of vid... best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:51:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Video List, Geez, I guess Bob Lawarence started a rush for this video . In my post I was asking for one for him, not me. Little did I know other people are trying to help too. Like Roger said, reply to Bob, not me, if you can help out....Thanks, Gary. Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Video Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:10:17 -0500 I have a copy of the video at home and check for the name of the publisher since I haven't seen it mentioned yet. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Zak" Subject: [PRR] PRR Videos Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:09:11 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C1CC2A.FAF46D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know this is opening a *huge* can of worms, but I haven't yet bought = any PRR videos, and am thinking of doing so - maybe two or three to = start. There are many advertised in MR, RMC, and at various sites. If any of = you would send me some recommendations as to which you feel are the best = - offline - I'd appreciate any info. Thanks, and again, please send your recommendations to me at = zak29577@yahoo.com. Zak ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C1CC2A.FAF46D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I know this is opening a *huge* can of = worms, but I=20 haven't yet bought any PRR videos, and am thinking of doing so - maybe = two or=20 three to start.
 
There are many advertised in MR, RMC, = and at=20 various sites.  If any of you would send me some recommendations as = to=20 which you feel are the best  - offline - I'd appreciate any=20 info.
 
Thanks, and again, please send your = recommendations=20 to me at zak29577@yahoo.com.
 
Zak
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C1CC2A.FAF46D20-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:15:47 -0500 Listers, A quick one: Which of the following Passenger cars by Walthers were found on PRR trains? Budd 24-8 Slumber Coach: PRR? Other road name? Budd 48 seat Coach: PRR? Other road name? Budd Diner: PRR? Other road name? Budd 10-6 Sleeper: PRR? Other road name? The other coach (52 seat?) PRR? Other road name? Thanks Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Videos Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:21:59 -0500 Zak, Penn Valley Productions: "Ore Train" and "Middle Division" Herron Rail Services: Pennsylvania Glory 3 T1's and the only shots of an S1 Pennsylvania Glory 1 and 2 More Modern: Army Navy game trains (available from Jerry) all GG1's Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:27:31 -0500 Chris, The Budd 10-6's were found with PRR and SOU roadnames in the New York-New Orleans trains like the Southerner the Pelican and the Crescent Limited. I know 'cause I rode back and forth to college in 'em. The SOU Budd diners were also in some of these trains. Some cut the diner off at Washington, but its been 40 years....... Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: "PRR Talk" Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 2:15 PM Subject: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars > Listers, > > A quick one: > > Which of the following Passenger cars by Walthers were found on PRR trains? > > Budd 24-8 Slumber Coach: > PRR? > Other road name? > > Budd 48 seat Coach: > PRR? > Other road name? > > Budd Diner: > PRR? > Other road name? > > Budd 10-6 Sleeper: > PRR? > Other road name? > > The other coach (52 seat?) > PRR? > Other road name? > > > Thanks > Chris Chany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Videos Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:24:56 -0600 Zak--I second what Chris Chany wrote, but definitely, definitely add "Susquehanna Division" to the Penn Valley list. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Videos Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:37:02 -0600 Actually, there is an S-1 operating in actual revenue service appearing in a brief scene in a tape prepared for the Crestline, Ohio Sesquicentennial celebration last summer. -----Original Message----- From: Chany, Christopher [mailto:cpc1@westchestergov.com] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 1:22 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Videos Zak, Penn Valley Productions: "Ore Train" and "Middle Division" Herron Rail Services: Pennsylvania Glory 3 T1's and the only shots of an S1 Pennsylvania Glory 1 and 2 More Modern: Army Navy game trains (available from Jerry) all GG1's Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:23:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod From: aurora7@juno.com I don't know about Pennsy using any of them, but of course, PRR had the most Decks of any fleet. WM had one slightly larger. I got to see a Russian Decapod at the St. Louis MOT last year. These were big locos, and you could mistake Strasburg's 2-10-0 for a Russian, once you saw one. I wonder which locomotive will be the next Decapod design to be brought back into service? What would a running road speed be for one of those babies? Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana" - Groucho ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rdhess10@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:46:50 EST Subject: [PRR] Photo of PRR I1 --part1_18b.4e3da13.29c3b7ba_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi List, Recently someone posted a site to download an overhead view of a PRR I1. I lost the info and would appreciate seeing the reference again since I didn't download it at the time. Thanks, Bob Hess --part1_18b.4e3da13.29c3b7ba_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi List,

      Recently someone posted a site to download an overhead view of a PRR I1.  I lost the info and would appreciate seeing the reference again since I didn't download it at the time.

Thanks,

Bob Hess --part1_18b.4e3da13.29c3b7ba_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:47:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Videos In a message dated 3/15/02 2:41:54 PM Central Standard Time, cadwelml@bp.com writes: << Actually, there is an S-1 operating in actual revenue service appearing in a brief scene in a tape prepared for the Crestline, Ohio Sesquicentennial celebration last summer. >> Available? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:51:13 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars In a message dated 3/15/02 1:22:39 PM Central Standard Time, cpc1@westchestergov.com writes: << Which of the following Passenger cars by Walthers were found on PRR trains? >> The UP 10-6 ran through on the Pennsylvania Limited and other trains at other times. However, the Walthers kit doesn't include any correct car names. Microscale decal set with correct names is temporarily (I hope) out of production. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:09:33 +0000 If I am not mistaken the Illinois railroad museum in Union Illinois still operates their ex-Frisco 2-10-0. I believe it is their only operational steamer and has been in service almost continually on weekends since it arrived in the late 60's. There was an artcile in RMC about bringing it to Union. The crew riding the engine asked for assurances that there were no selfguarding frogs on any turnouts and after being assured there were not bounced two feet in the air when they hit the first one. > I don't know about Pennsy using any of them, but of course, PRR had the > most Decks of any fleet. WM had one slightly larger. I got to see a > Russian Decapod at the St. Louis MOT last year. These were big locos, > and you could mistake Strasburg's 2-10-0 for a Russian, once you saw one. > I wonder which locomotive will be the next Decapod design to be brought > back into service? What would a running road speed be for one of those > babies? > > > > Richard Glueck > Peace of the Planet Farm > Winterport, Maine > > "Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana" - > Groucho > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:30:28 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Richard sez: >I don't know about Pennsy using any of them, but of course, PRR had the >most Decks of any fleet. Regarding the Bachman 2-10-0, there is some indication that a few of these engines were used briefly by the PRR post WWI as "trimmers" in hump yards. PRR's large fleet of 2-10-0, the I1 class, were PRR designed and were far more massive than the Russians...there is no comparison and no kitbash possibility. >WM had one slightly larger. I got to see a >Russian Decapod at the St. Louis MOT last year. These were big locos, >and you could mistake Strasburg's 2-10-0 for a Russian, once you saw one. > I wonder which locomotive will be the next Decapod design to be brought >back into service? What would a running road speed be for one of those >babies? Actually, the Russians are small for decapods and made for light rail. The I1 could get up to 50 mph, but I understand that the ride could jar every filling loose! The Russians were used for branchline service on most RRs and rarely if ever got up to their max possible speed, which was likely similar to the I1. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: [PRR] Good VCR Tapes Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:34:17 -0600 Hello List: I agree with Chris. "Zak, Penn Valley Productions: "Ore Train" and "Middle Division" Herron Rail Services: Pennsylvania Glory 3 T1's and the only shots of an S1 Pennsylvania Glory 1 and 2 More Modern: Army Navy game trains (available from Jerry) all GG1's Chris Chany" But I would add: any of the Penn Valley Productions with the above in, also "The S&L Story". Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:44:15 -0500 Seems to me that Pennsy I-1s would go as fast as 50mph but they rode so rough you couldn't stand it for long. 25-30mph was a more common speed when in service. Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod > I don't know about Pennsy using any of them, but of course, PRR had the > most Decks of any fleet. WM had one slightly larger. I got to see a > Russian Decapod at the St. Louis MOT last year. These were big locos, > and you could mistake Strasburg's 2-10-0 for a Russian, once you saw one. > I wonder which locomotive will be the next Decapod design to be brought > back into service? What would a running road speed be for one of those > babies? > > > > Richard Glueck > Peace of the Planet Farm > Winterport, Maine > > "Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana" - > Groucho > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:53:38 -0500 Richard, I'll put it this way. I was pacing a "lawnmower" Decapod, similar to Strasburg 90 on the Gainesville Midland in 1959 and was doing the speed limit for Georgia rural highways! (50 at that time) Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod > I don't know about Pennsy using any of them, but of course, PRR had the > most Decks of any fleet. WM had one slightly larger. I got to see a > Russian Decapod at the St. Louis MOT last year. These were big locos, > and you could mistake Strasburg's 2-10-0 for a Russian, once you saw one. > I wonder which locomotive will be the next Decapod design to be brought > back into service? What would a running road speed be for one of those > babies? > > > > Richard Glueck > Peace of the Planet Farm > Winterport, Maine > > "Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana" - > Groucho > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:37:7 -0500 Yes, the Pennsy did have a few Russians. The Illinois Railway Museum video tape says that ex-Frisco 1630, which operates at the IRM, worked on the Pennsy for a while. Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] "Keystone" editor Chuck Blardone is looking for photos. He has an article on the February 17, 1942 wreck at Seward, PA., but no photos. If anyone could loan him photos, he will scan and return them promptly. Please contact Chuck directly at blardone@redrose.net Thanx. Al ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Outsource Your Web Design & Development Projects at Elance Find the best Web Designers, Programmers & Consultants Post Your Project for FREE. Click Here. http://us.click.yahoo.com/7Rq2zA/JB0DAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] "Keystone" editor Chuck Blardone is looking for photos. He has an article on the February 17, 1942 wreck at Seward, PA., but no photos. If anyone could loan him photos, he will scan and return them promptly. Please contact Chuck directly at blardone@redrose.net Thanx. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:46:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Videos/Cab Ride Hey Zak, Railroad Video Productions has a tape out called "The Broadway Limited: Harrisburg to Phila." The tape was shot from the cab and it's pretty good. The entire trip is on tape so you see every part of the mainline. This tape was made before the catenary was removed from the A&S Branch and the P&T Branch. This ain't one of those boring cab ride videos. There is also a tape from RVP which heads south down the (ex-PRR) York Haven Line from Enola Yards, then onward to Bayview Yards via The Port Road and the NEC. All from the cab. A good way to view the ex PRR lines. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:47:47 EST Subject: [PRR] A DINER FOR NELLIE? One of my complaints about 3 rail "O" scale has beem that passenger trains have always been that passenger trains are sold only as "sets" - 5 cars, two coaches, a baggage a pullman and an observation. The "add on sets" are always a diner and a pullman or a combine (The lightweight sets often include those famous Pennsy dome cars) The complaint is that many locos offered such as the G-5 and E-6 were "Day trippers" that didn't really require Pullmans or diners. I have an MTH scale E-6 Atlantic for which I have assembled an all coach train - the "sound package" announces the train as the "Nellie Blye" an Atlantic City train - I have the opportunity to add a diner - should I and would this train have had a "tail car" an obs or a solarium? Thanks Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:00:24 -0500 Roger, The light Decapods sold by Baldwin and others to the SAL, ACL, and many southern short lines were referred to by many as "lawnmower Decapods" for two reasons. First, many of the lines they operated on were not well maintained and they ran through the weeds. Second, with many small drivers they sort of looked like a reel lawnmower in operation! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 12:28 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod > In a message dated 3/15/02 4:56:04 PM Central Standard Time, > mahlkov@gtcom.net writes: > > > I was pacing a "lawnmower" Decapod > > Hi, Gregg. > > What's a "lawnmower Decapod"? Never heard that term applied to a Dec or any > other engine! > > Roger Huber > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:02:40 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] FW: Information - PRR "South Wind' Good friend John Kilbride has send me the message below. Anyone who can assist should contact John directly. Thanx Al ============================ -----Original Message----- From: Kilbride, John [mailto: ] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:47 AM To: 'abbuchan1@comcast.net' Subject: Information - PRR "South Wind' Al: Would like to do a story, for PRRT&HS use, on the "South Wind", which seems to have been the PRR's "forgotten" unique streamliner. Might I ask that you get the word out that I'm looking for information (ie: schedules, consists, etc.) and would appreciate the assistance of the PRR present-day community in developing this article. (I can be reached at either home phone -- 609/443-4746 -- or "E" at Kilbrij@amtrak.com.) Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:19:01 -0600 There was an inference that the decapod at the Illinois Railroad Museum was once owned by the PRR, but apparently never operated by the railroad. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 3:30 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Richard sez: >I don't know about Pennsy using any of them, but of course, PRR had the >most Decks of any fleet. Regarding the Bachman 2-10-0, there is some indication that a few of these engines were used briefly by the PRR post WWI as "trimmers" in hump yards. PRR's large fleet of 2-10-0, the I1 class, were PRR designed and were far more massive than the Russians...there is no comparison and no kitbash possibility. >WM had one slightly larger. I got to see a >Russian Decapod at the St. Louis MOT last year. These were big locos, >and you could mistake Strasburg's 2-10-0 for a Russian, once you saw one. > I wonder which locomotive will be the next Decapod design to be brought >back into service? What would a running road speed be for one of those >babies? Actually, the Russians are small for decapods and made for light rail. The I1 could get up to 50 mph, but I understand that the ride could jar every filling loose! The Russians were used for branchline service on most RRs and rarely if ever got up to their max possible speed, which was likely similar to the I1. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:46:52 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod [snip] >>WM had one slightly larger. >> WM had two classes of decapods. The I1 class was the Russian decapod, as made by Bachmann. The I2 class was the largest (OK -- slightly larger than the PRR) decapod. WM had 10 class I1 decapods and 20 class I2 decapods. Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:45:09 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod --On Saturday, March 16, 2002 19:46 -0500 Jeff Warner wrote: > WM had two classes of decapods. The I1 class was the Russian decapod, as > made by Bachmann. The I2 class was the largest (OK -- slightly larger > than the PRR) decapod. WM had 10 class I1 decapods and 20 class I2 > decapods. Well, it would be difficult to find a Class I RR (or should I say Rwy) more divergent from the PRR than the Wild Mary in terms of a lot of things. But, since the subject of the Bachman Russian's persists (for no apparent reason) on this list, I will add that some of the 10 WM I1's were stabled in Hagerstown. The only photos I have seen of them in Hagerstown were taken during their last months on Earth ... stored, awaiting the torch. But it would seem that anyone modeling the Cumberland Valley line (moment of silence, bow toward Chambersburg) after it was laid waste by the Philadelphiastines might conceivably have one on his/her layout. At least that is my excuse for buying one! Vagel "Unambigously West of the Alleghenies" Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:44:06 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod - WM Vagel: Yes. The Russians could be found in and around Hagerstown. The most common place to see them, however would be Cumberland, MD. They were used often on the Cumberland and Pennsylvania (C&P) after it was acquired by the WM in 1944. They also were seen on a lot of the other branches that could not handle the larger I2 decapods and challengers the WM favored. According to my books, they were very smooth riders and were the primary reason the WM developed a larger 2-10-0 configuration. I have seen pictures of the Russians all over the WM system. I am modeling the WM from Baltimore to Hagerstown via the "Dutch Line" as well as the Lurgan sub, so I have a pair of the new Russian decs. One had to go back to Bachmann for repair, but overall, they are a nice engine. For the record, I am also modeling the Reading from Lurgan to Harrisburg and the PRR from Harrisburg to Baltimore... Jeff Vagel C. Keller, Jr. wrote: > > > --On Saturday, March 16, 2002 19:46 -0500 Jeff Warner > wrote: > > >> WM had two classes of decapods. The I1 class was the Russian >> decapod, as >> made by Bachmann. The I2 class was the largest (OK -- slightly larger >> than the PRR) decapod. WM had 10 class I1 decapods and 20 class I2 >> decapods. > > > Well, it would be difficult to find a Class I RR (or should I say Rwy) > more divergent from the PRR than the Wild Mary in terms of a lot of > things. But, since the subject of the Bachman Russian's persists (for > no apparent reason) on this list, I will add that some of the 10 WM > I1's were stabled in Hagerstown. The only photos I have seen of them > in Hagerstown were taken during their last months on Earth ... stored, > awaiting the torch. But it would seem that anyone modeling the > Cumberland Valley line (moment of silence, bow toward Chambersburg) > after it was laid waste by the Philadelphiastines might conceivably > have one on his/her layout. At least that is my excuse for buying one! > > Vagel "Unambigously West of the Alleghenies" Keller > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:02:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] FW: Information - PRR "South Wind' Good friend John Kilbride has send me the message below. Anyone who can assist should contact John directly. Thanx Al ============================ -----Original Message----- From: Kilbride, John [mailto: ] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:47 AM To: 'abbuchan1@comcast.net' Subject: Information - PRR "South Wind' Al: Would like to do a story, for PRRT&HS use, on the "South Wind", which seems to have been the PRR's "forgotten" unique streamliner. Might I ask that you get the word out that I'm looking for information (ie: schedules, consists, etc.) and would appreciate the assistance of the PRR present-day community in developing this article. (I can be reached at either home phone -- 609/443-4746 -- or "E" at Kilbrij@amtrak.com.) Thanks! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Save Time & Money Outsource Your Software & Application Development with Elance Post Your Project for FREE http://us.click.yahoo.com/FojGfD/6A0DAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann HO Russian Decapod Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:33:23 -0600 My question to the group is: How are the Bachmann and Life Like locomotives holding up? As in -- has anyone been running them for extended periods of time? And have the belts (or whatever drives them) been fairly reliable and "not wearing out"? As opposed to Athearn who uses a gear drive. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:04:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Shamokin inquiry Lists,           I was sent this email.. Can anyone ID this. Here is the pic if the attachment was deleted. It seems to be an early Camelback. I assume the Shamokin Branch was not yet part of the Pennsy so I do not believe this is a Pennsy Loco but I am unsure. Could it be an early LV or RDG or some other smaller shortline? http://www.prrths.com/PRR_Links.html (1860 Train Locomotive #3 Shamokin Pa.)   ............Thanks, Gary - Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:27:43 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Penn Station in NYC Track Plan Is there available anywhere on the web a map of the undergraound track layout of Penn Station in its Glory Days? I am interested in particular with the track from which the Broadway Ltd left NYC for Philly. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:05:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Shamokin inquiry List, Since I really screwed up that last post I figured I would try again. This time the pic CAN be found here: http://community-2.webtv.net/mittner/pic/ Again, this is supposed to be the Shamokin area circa 1860. Can anyone share any info on this scene as to what loco this is. Probably not PRR? An early Camelback so maybe LV or RDG? I can than share the answer to the person wh asked me. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:18:30 -0500 From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Penn Station in NYC Track Plan On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 04:27:43PM -0500, Michael DiMaio wrote: > Is there available anywhere on the web a map of the undergraound > track layout of Penn Station in its Glory Days? I am interested in > particular with the track from which the Broadway Ltd left NYC for > Philly. Michael, you may not know it, but you are really asking 2 separate questions. A track plan (interlocking diagram) is on the web on my site (hosted on Jerry's computer) at: http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/a_kn_c_jo.gif see the web page at http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/itlk_phl_nyc_main.html However, an interlocking diagram does not list what trains sit where. I don't know to what extent this stuff was ever documented, or whether it simply was the developed practice of a particular location ("it works, so we go with it"), but I'll pass this email along to another person who may be able to answer. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:47:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Railroad.net - Semi relevant From: "M. E Allen" Anybody out there know what happened to Railroad.net and its forums? MEA ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] A DINER FOR NELLIE? Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:31:49 -0500 Dick, Nellie Blye was a New York to Atlantic City train which usually had coaches and one or two parlor cars. To my knowledge it never operated with a diner or an obsevation. The train ran from Penn Station to Trenton with electric power, then steam or diesel from Trenton down the Bordentown branch to Delair and the PRSL mainline to Atlantic City. The reverse proceedure occured for the New York run. The cars were not 'turned' at either end of the run. In the late years, the train was down to 2 or 3 P70fbr PRSL coaches and a PRR heavywight parlor. Hope this helps. I'm not at home to research further. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: VVA249@aol.com [mailto:VVA249@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 12:48 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] A DINER FOR NELLIE? One of my complaints about 3 rail "O" scale has beem that passenger trains have always been that passenger trains are sold only as "sets" - 5 cars, two coaches, a baggage a pullman and an observation. The "add on sets" are always a diner and a pullman or a combine (The lightweight sets often include those famous Pennsy dome cars) The complaint is that many locos offered such as the G-5 and E-6 were "Day trippers" that didn't really require Pullmans or diners. I have an MTH scale E-6 Atlantic for which I have assembled an all coach train - the "sound package" announces the train as the "Nellie Blye" an Atlantic City train - I have the opportunity to add a diner - should I and would this train have had a "tail car" an obs or a solarium? Thanks Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:16:06 -0500 From: "cwhary" Subject: [PRR] Ligonier R/R Station People, This past weekend I happen to be in Ligonier, Pa. and notice a pristene two story high mable railroad station near the town's square. To my surprise the station was in imaculate condition along with the track platform canopie. All track/s have been long gone. The station is now being used by local patrons and was closed. My question, Seeing Ligonier was close to Pittsburgh was this part of the PRR or was it a supporting short line R/R? According to Bruce F. Smith V.M.D, whom I had recent contact with, he stated that it isn't on the PRR system map (The main goes through Latrobe, a bit to the NW) and in fact the system map doesn't show any RR in the area. One possibility is that the station was moved to its current location, although a map of Ligonier shows "Railroad Avenue" as a street, indicating that the tracks used to go there! Bruce mentioned the possiblity of the station being moved, and after seeing the station this weekend it would have been nearly impossible. Thanks for everyones input ahead of time. -- Charles E. Whary -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:39:51 EST From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Ligonier R/R Station Charles, I think what you've seen was the old Ligonier Valley Railroad's station. I recall seeing their entries in early 1950's Official Guides, when they were still hauling passengers over to the Pennsy main line at Latrobe, it seems. I had asked about this little railroad myself on either this list or the Pennsy list on yahoogroups, I can't recall which, but there was an extensive and very informative discussion online. I'd suggest that you search the archives for this subject. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AHARTPRR137@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:29:57 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Ligonier R/R Station --part1_142.b42d999.29c77005_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/18/02 10:21:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, cwhary@paonline.com writes: > People, > > This past weekend I happen to be in Ligonier, Pa. and notice a pristene two > story high mable railroad station near the town's square. To my surprise > the station was in imaculate condition along with the track platform > canopie. All track/s have been long gone. The station is now being used by > local patrons and was closed. > > My question, Seeing Ligonier was close to Pittsburgh was this part of the > PRR or was it a supporting short line R/R? > > According to Bruce F. Smith V.M.D, whom I had recent contact with, he > stated that it isn't on the PRR system map (The main goes through Latrobe, > a bit to the NW) and in fact the system map doesn't show any RR in the > area. One possibility is that the station was moved to its current > location, although a map of Ligonier shows "Railroad Avenue" as a street, > indicating that the tracks used to go there! > > Bruce mentioned the possiblity of the station being moved, and after seeing > the station this weekend it would have been nearly impossible. > > Thanks for everyones input ahead of time. > > > -- > Charles E. Whary > To Charles and others, A check of the Feb 1950 Official Guide shows the Ligonier Valley RR operating between Ligonier and the PRR at Latrobe. Passenger service consisted of 5 daily except Sunday roundtrips and 3 roundtrips on Sunday. The trip took 25 minutes over a distance of 10.5 miles. The officers of the company all were members of the Mellon family. I have been told that the Ligonier Valley trains came into the PRR Latrobe station on a track parallel to the PRR main on the south. A large concrete bumper at the end of the LV track still exists at the west end of the station. Andy Hart --part1_142.b42d999.29c77005_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/18/02 10:21:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, cwhary@paonline.com writes:


People,

This past weekend I happen to be in Ligonier, Pa. and notice a pristene two story high mable railroad station near the town's square.   To my surprise the station was in imaculate condition along with the track platform canopie.  All track/s have been long gone. The station is now being used by local patrons and was closed.

My question, Seeing Ligonier was close to Pittsburgh was this part of the PRR or was it a supporting short line R/R?

According to Bruce F. Smith V.M.D, whom I had recent contact with, he stated that it isn't on the PRR system map (The main goes through Latrobe, a bit to the NW) and in fact the system map doesn't show any RR in the area. One possibility is that the station was moved to its current location, although a map of Ligonier shows "Railroad Avenue" as a street, indicating that the tracks used to go there!

Bruce mentioned the possiblity of the station being moved, and after seeing the station this weekend it would have been nearly impossible.

Thanks for everyones input ahead of time.


--
Charles E. Whary

To Charles and others,

A check of the Feb 1950 Official Guide shows the Ligonier Valley RR operating between Ligonier and the PRR at Latrobe.  Passenger service consisted of 5 daily except Sunday roundtrips and 3 roundtrips on Sunday.  The trip took 25 minutes over a distance of 10.5 miles.  The officers of the company all were members of the Mellon family.

I have been told that the Ligonier Valley trains came into the PRR Latrobe station on a track parallel to the PRR main on the south.  A large concrete bumper at the end of the LV track still exists at the west end of the station.

Andy Hart
 --part1_142.b42d999.29c77005_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:35:39 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Ligonier R/R Station Greetings to Charles, Barry and the List: The short answer is that the 10.5-mile-long Ligonier Valley Railroad was affiliated with PRR but not corporately or financially. It was (like much of the land and commerce around Ligonier) owned and controlled by the Mellon family of Pittsburgh bankers. The link is that at least two generations of Mellons sat on the PRR board of directors. Over the years, LVRR also bought and used some secondhand PRR steam engines. Ligonier Valley connected with PRR at the latter's Latrobe, Pa., station. For a brief period (1899-1916), another short line, the Pittsburgh, Westmoreland & Southern, connected with LVRR at Ligonier and extended southeastward to Laurel Ridge. Beginning in 1906, it was extended all the way to Somerset, for a total of 25 miles, thus providing both a shortcut and a (PRR-aligned) alternative to B&O for freight and passenger traffic between Somerset, Pa., the county seat of Somerset County, and Pittsburgh. PW&S was known for its steep grades and its use of about five miles of the never-completed South Pennsylvania RR, including the Quemahoning Tunnel, for which PW&S completed the excavation. Like LVRR, PW&S used secondhand PRR steam power. LVRR still operated five passenger round-trips a day in April 1952, but was abandoned the next month. PRR acquired the northernmost segment of track, about three miles. The Ligonier station is used as an office by the local bureau of the Pennsylvania Game Commission. For some current-day photos, check out: http://www.billvons.com/trains/3q2000.htm#LVRR Hope this helps. Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:37:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg's "Soldiers' and Sailors' Memorial Bridge" From: Jerry Britton A PRR-talk subscriber who wishes to add this bridge to his layout asked me to take some digital pics of it, since it is only a few miles from my home. It was a bit overcast yesterday, but I think the pics will suffice for modeling purposes. This is the bridge, commonly called the "State Street" bridge, that is just (railroad) west of HARRIS tower in Harrisburg. In addition to my pics, I quickly found some relevant info at the Library of Congress site... * Built 1926-1930. * 22 August 1930, bridge dedicated. * Total length of 1312'. * Reinforced concrete piers faced with coursed Indiana limestone ashlar. * Concrete and steel superstructure rests on a granite base course. * 12 main arches. * Widest span of 84'. * Bridge has 56' roadway and two 10'8" sidewalks. * Deck and sidewalks rebuilt in 1957. * West approach guarded by two 143' pylons which are 25' by 16' at the base. * 300 ton, 21' eagles at tops of pylons. Four spans of the bridge span the former PRR railroad line. Today the passenger leads to the station pass under one arch, the freight mains under the second, and nothing under the other two. In the PRR's heyday, the coach yard/ready tracks were under arches 2-3 and the freight mains went under arch 4. My photos are not only of the bridge details, suitable for modeling, but also include views eastbound and westbound of the railroad as it exists today, with comments about what was. The pics may be seen at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ Search on keywords "Memorial Bridge" to find 20 pics. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:30:37 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > Listers, > > A quick one: > > Which of the following Passenger cars by Walthers were found on PRR trains? > ================================================ > AFAIK: > Budd 24-8 Slumber Coach: never - well, almost never. anything could be > found at least once on the PRR ;-) > PRR? > Other road name? > > Budd 48 seat Coach: > PRR? never, > Other road name? but its a good stnd -in for the C&O Chessie coach which was > sold to the Seaboard and run in the Silver Meteor. > > Budd Diner: > PRR? > Other road name? perhaps a stand-in for the Seaboard or ACL Budd diners > > Budd 10-6 Sleeper: > PRR? never (The Southern pool cars were PS - River Series) > Other road name? UP (transcon service) > > The other coach (52 seat?) > PRR? P85e for Seaboard pool > Other road name? Seaboard Also a good stand-in for the ACL 54 seat pool > cars. Walthers is offering this car painted for ACL (but not for Seaboard - > go figger). The P85d was the PRR car in the ACL pool. It would have 7 > windows on the "port" side where the P85e has 6 1/2. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Roc83@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:37:51 EST Subject: [PRR] (no subject) Charles and all, You wrote: "This past weekend I happen to be in Ligonier, Pa. and notice a pristene two story high mable railroad station near the town's square. To my surprise the station was in imaculate condition along with the track platform canopie." This is the Ligioner Valley Railroad station and home office. The LGV was incorporated in April 1853 and abandoned on August 31, 1952. It connected Ligonier with the PRR main in Latrobe mostly along what is now Hwy 30. It also extended up the valley to Wilpen. I am in the process of modeling this short line in as part of the Derry to Pitcain mainline. I have additional information if you are interested. The Rev. Ralph Clark Hertford, NC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:10:42 -0500 From: Fred Kunchick Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg's "Soldiers' and Sailors' Memorial Bridge" I must say Jerry: "Very Nice Photos" ;-) Fred Frederick H. Kunchick Jr. GSCS(SW) USN(Retired) Independent AMSOIL Account Direct http://www.lubedealer.com/kunchick/index.htm Member Strasburg Model Railroad Club http://www.trainweb.org/smrc/index.html Host of ALHN/AHGP New Hampshire Civil War History and Genealogy Project http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nh/topic/civilwar/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:37 AM Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg's "Soldiers' and Sailors' Memorial Bridge" The pics may be seen at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ Search on keywords "Memorial Bridge" to find 20 pics ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:03:47 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Ligonier R/R Station --- Dan Cupper wrote: > Greetings to Charles, Barry and the List: > > The short answer is that the 10.5-mile-long Ligonier > Valley Railroad was > affiliated with PRR but not corporately or > financially. It was (like > much of the land and commerce around Ligonier) owned > and controlled by > the Mellon family of Pittsburgh bankers. The link > is that at least two > generations of Mellons sat on the PRR board of > directors. >From 1916 Poor's Manual of Railroads: Ligonier Valley Railroad Directors: R. B. Mellon James R. Mellon T. A. Mellon E. P. Mellon A. W. Mellon Thomas Mellon W. L. Mellon Officers: J. R. Mellon, Pres. A. W. Mellon, Sec. R. B. Mellon, Treas. T. A. Mellon, Aud. W. V. Hyland, Supt. > Ligonier Valley connected with PRR at the latter's > Latrobe, Pa., > station. See interlocking diagram for "KR" at broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/ > For a brief period (1899-1916), another > short line, the > Pittsburgh, Westmoreland & Southern, connected with > LVRR at Ligonier [...] There was also a branch which extended NNE from Ligonier to coal mines. I think I saw a reference to the Westmoreland Central RR as the corporation formed to build the branch. A very serious accident occurred a mile or so out of Ligonier on that branch. In the 1970's that accident was still on the list of "most serious RR accidents" in some almanac "Information Please?" > Like LVRR, PW&S used secondhand PRR > steam power. Not exclusively. PW&S had at least one Shay which, I understand, was occasionally sent to Altoona for service. > LVRR still operated five passenger round-trips a day > in April 1952, but > was abandoned the next month. The highway department coveted the right of way through the water gap in the Chestnut Ridge for two lanes of the new, improved 4-lane US 30. Abandonment was delayed a year or two to allow stone to be hauled from a quarry near the eastern end of that gap the the then abuilding Conemaugh Dam. > PRR acquired the > northernmost segment of > track, about three miles. The Ligonier station is > used as an office by > the local bureau of the Pennsylvania Game > Commission. Southwest Regional office, actually. And the engine house became a Catholic church. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] A DINER FOR NELLIE? Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:24:56 -0500 RR I would say never.....but, Never say Never about the Pennsy. If a solarium end parlor did appear it would have been a rare exception rather than the norm. Consists were made up at Sunnyside, so anything is possible, but not likely. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: VVA249@aol.com [mailto:VVA249@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 1:28 PM To: Burnley, Charles Subject: Re: [PRR] A DINER FOR NELLIE? In a message dated 3/18/02 8:32:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Charles.Burnley@conectiv.com writes: << In the late years, the train was down to 2 or 3 P70fbr PRSL coaches and a PRR heavywight parlor. >> Did this "Parlor" have a Solarium style end? RR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] GP(B's Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:09:42 +0000 Did all the GP-9B's have the Chrome ring around the porthole window? Thnaks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] GP(B's Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:21:32 -0500 Speaking Of GP7B's does someone still make a conversion kit in HO? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:22:52 -0500 Listers, Are the members of the list going to plan a get-together at the meeting this year. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:33:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention From: Jerry Britton On 3/18/02 3:22 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > Are the members of the list going to plan a get-together at the meeting this > year. > I encourage it, but as a vendor can't really invest the time to arrange it and follow up. Up through two years ago we met for dinner. However, it was found that the time between the last afternoon session on Friday and the beginning of the layout tours really wasn't enough time. So last year, on Saturday morning, we did a "bring your own breakfast" to the new bridge over the west throat of Enola Yard. Attendance was only about two dozen. However, the site is good (parking, safety) and the westbound classification yard has just been rebuilt. So you might want to consider a return to this venue. I will again have the three tables just inside the door with the PENNSYRR.COM sign above it. Stop by, say hello, and hang out. Carl Hasslet has already voiced that he will return with brochures and such to distribute. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: Re: [PRR] GP(B's Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:21:15 -0500 Chris, I found these at a local shop. The Walthers catalog number is 331-5011. These are made by "HI-TECH DETAILS" @ $6.95 each. I'm pretty sure I got these last year. Hope this helps. Jim Lash ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 3:21 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] GP(B's > Speaking Of GP7B's does someone still make a conversion kit in HO? > > > Chris Chany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:04:30 -0500 From: Keith B Thompson Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS 2002 Convention Model Room Update Hello, I wanted to announce the details regarding the model room at this year's PRRT&HS annual convention in May. Below is the schedule of hours that the model room will be open and the activities. This year we will be downplaying the contest aspect somewhat and encourage everyone to bring a model of any kind, shape or color. (well, PRR related of course!) So there's no excuse - bring you favorites, works in progress and masterpieces. Of course, we are still having the modeling contest and it will be the usual popular vote. Entrants will have the option of whether or not their models participate in the contest. In addition to the models you may already be planning to bring, we would like for people to bring models relating to this year's scheduled talks. This year we have talks on: * Composite Single-Sheathed Box Cars * PA Narrow Gauge Railroads Connecting with the PRR * P5 Electrics * Gondolas So, if you have models that fit these descriptions, bring 'em! Another activity we are offering is "Meet the Modelers". We have allocated a time on Friday and Saturday when modelers can sign up to be in the model room to answer questions about their models. (Or just to absorb the admiration of the crowds!) Last on the list of items to cover is to note that the model room is scheduled to be open early Saturday, before the vendors area is open. We don't want the vendors to miss out on the fun. So, I hope to see you and your models at the convention and if you have any questions, suggestions or offers to help :) please drop me an email at: kbt@bit-net.com Regards, Keith Thompson PRRT&HS 2002 Convention Model Room Schedule Friday, May 3rd 9am Model Room Opens 10am Contest Model Voting Starts Noon - 1pm Meet the Modelers 4:45pm - 6pm Model Room Closed 7pm - 8pm Model Room Open Saturday, May 4th 8am - 9am Model Room Open, Vendor room closed After annual meeting Model Room Open Noon - 1pm Meet the Modelers 4pm Model Room Closed, Models must be removed 7pm at Annual Banquet Model contest winners announced ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:20:48 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Ligonier R/R Station Hi, It was the headquarters of the Ligonier Valley RR. - Claus Date sent: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:16:06 -0500 From: "cwhary" Send reply to: To: Subject: [PRR] Ligonier R/R Station > People, > > This past weekend I happen to be in Ligonier, Pa. and notice a pristene two story high mable railroad station near the town's square. To my surprise the station was in imaculate condition along with the track platform canopie. All track/s have been long gone. The station is now being used by local patrons and was closed. > > My question, Seeing Ligonier was close to Pittsburgh was this part of the PRR or was it a supporting short line R/R? > > According to Bruce F. Smith V.M.D, whom I had recent contact with, he stated that it isn't on the PRR system map (The main goes through Latrobe, a bit to the NW) and in fact the system map doesn't show any RR in the area. One possibility is that the station was moved to its current location, although a map of Ligonier shows "Railroad Avenue" as a street, indicating that the tracks used to go there! > > Bruce mentioned the possiblity of the station being moved, and after seeing the station this weekend it would have been nearly impossible. > > Thanks for everyones input ahead of time. > > > -- > Charles E. Whary > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Mar 02 23:38:47 EST From: LINKM@timken.com Subject: [PRR] B-6 LIST: IS THERE ANY REASONABLE AVAILABLE NON-BRASS 0-6-0 THAT WOULD MAKE A GOOD STARTING POINT FOR A PRR B-6? ANYONE DONE THIS ONE BEFORE? MAYBE A BOWSER A-5 WITH A PONY-LESS MODIFIED 2-6-0 UNDERCARRAIGE? THANKS! MATT LINK ********************************************************************** This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company ********************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SHanlon@dnr.state.md.us Subject: [PRR] panhandle artifact Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:54:28 -0500 i was in dennison ohio over the weekend and as i was driving around i came across a former PRR freight house. today it is a pizza joint, but the owner chose to put his sign under the PRR Freight House signage. i clicked a picture of it. as soon as it comes back from the developer, i'll post a link. -steve hanlon ########################################### This message has been scanned for viruses. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] B-6 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:12:21 -0500 Would you be employed by the company that makes Timken Roller bearings? Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: LINKM@timken.com [mailto:LINKM@timken.com] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:39 PM To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] B-6 LIST: IS THERE ANY REASONABLE AVAILABLE NON-BRASS 0-6-0 THAT WOULD MAKE A GOOD STARTING POINT FOR A PRR B-6? ANYONE DONE THIS ONE BEFORE? MAYBE A BOWSER A-5 WITH A PONY-LESS MODIFIED 2-6-0 UNDERCARRAIGE? THANKS! MATT LINK ********************************************************************** This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company ********************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:15:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6 From: Jerry Britton On 3/18/02 11:38 PM, LINKM@timken.com at (LINKM@timken.com) wrote: > LIST: IS THERE ANY REASONABLE AVAILABLE NON-BRASS 0-6-0 THAT WOULD MAKE A GOOD > STARTING POINT FOR A PRR B-6? ANYONE DONE THIS ONE BEFORE? MAYBE A BOWSER > A-5 > WITH A PONY-LESS MODIFIED 2-6-0 UNDERCARRAIGE? THANKS! MATT LINK > Bowser has a B6 under development. I'd bet you could order one by the end of the year. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:33:17 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6 In a message dated 3/19/02 7:23:37 AM Central Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Bowser has a B6 under development. I'd bet you could order one by the end of the year. >> That's good news, but I suspect it will be more than a used brass loco. My Red Ball (!) B6 is a very smooth runner and I paid $115 for it about 5 years ago. Since I run,not collect, the fact it is not as detailed as a new $500 one, actually is an advantage to me as I don't worry about delicate parts falling off or the mechanism not holding up. And I don't feel reluctant to weather it :-). I'm sure I will have to remotor it for DCC someday, but for now I run it straight DC on our club modular layout. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] GP-B's Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:35:21 -0500 OK, I now know that the PRR did not have any GP7-B's. I have however seen pictures of ABA lashups of GP9's. What was the common lashup for GP7's? I'm asking because I don't think that GP9's fit my operating era 55-57. On another note would the Pennsy run a lashup of GP7-A GP9-B GP7-A? The GPB's are so strange looking I would love to get one on my layout! Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Rats Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:46:30 -0500 Listers, I was looking through a friend's copy of Pennsy Electric Years Vol. 2. There is a series of pictures taken during a fan trips lay-over at Harrisburg (in the early 60's I believe). A couple of pictures show a freshly cleaned (and painted) B motor Rat doing some switching. It has very bright yellow handrails. Would the handrails have been painted yellow 55-57? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:47:12 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6 Sounds like Christmas! Hallelujah, Hallelujah-Hallelujah, A B6 has been perhaps THE most significant hole in the PRR model roster. I own two brass B6's imported by by AHM a looong time ago. I paid less for them than the price of a current Walthers catalog - not the prince in the Walthers Catalog, the price OF the Walthers catalog! They were poor efforts as the low price would indicate, but the only affordable game in town. I have done extensive super detailing on them - an effort I refer to a sowsearology - you know, the stuff silk purses can't be made from ;-) But they still can't pull like a Bowser. Our yard operators at the club give up on them during all-steam sessions because they top out with a cut of 8 or 9 cars. A Bowser should solve that problem :-)) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > . . . > Bowser has a B6 under development. I'd bet you could order one by the end of > the year. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] GP-B's Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:09:15 +0000 The GP7's were for local work and the GP9's were road engines. The PRR was pretty consistent about not mixing classes until after the second generation units were in service. So dependent on what era you want to model the answer is probably not. Chances of a GP7 and a GP9B together would be a pretty rare occurence but never say never about anything. Norm Bell > OK, I now know that the PRR did not have any GP7-B's. I have however seen > pictures of ABA lashups of GP9's. What was the common lashup for GP7's? > I'm asking because I don't think that GP9's fit my operating era 55-57. On > another note would the Pennsy run a lashup of GP7-A GP9-B GP7-A? The GPB's > are so strange looking I would love to get one on my layout! > > > Chris Chany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:29:25 -0500 WHAT SCALE???????????????? MiniTrix made a B6sb in N, several have in O. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:38 PM Subject: [PRR] B-6 > > LIST: IS THERE ANY REASONABLE AVAILABLE NON-BRASS 0-6-0 THAT WOULD MAKE A GOOD > STARTING POINT FOR A PRR B-6? ANYONE DONE THIS ONE BEFORE? MAYBE A BOWSER A-5 > WITH A PONY-LESS MODIFIED 2-6-0 UNDERCARRAIGE? THANKS! MATT LINK > > > ********************************************************************** > This message and any attachments are intended for the > individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this > communication to others; also please notify the sender by > replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. > > The Timken Company > ********************************************************************** > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:32:11 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Rats Chris asks: >A couple of pictures show a >freshly cleaned (and painted) B motor Rat doing some switching. It has very >bright yellow handrails. Would the handrails have been painted yellow >55-57? Ahhhh, the subject of painting rats! . It would seem that, as with many railroads, the "station switcher", in this case the Harrisburg B1, was often the subject of special attention from the shop crews. Photos from H'burg from the late 1950's show yellow safety rails and red window sashes. Yellow hand rails became standard in the early 50'd (don't have the exact date) Prior to that white was the color used, although bare aluminum may have been seen on occaision. Usually, the hand rails were filthy with dirt and so look mostly black. Some photos from Sunnyside show the notorius FCC color roofs...which some have translated into a paint scheme for all PRR electrics :^( Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Garry Spear Subject: FW: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:40:13 -0500 There were PRR Budd built 10-6 Sleepers. Please see: http://PRR.Railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/GSPEAR_PRR_SL_RapidsX.htm for a list. Only 6 cars and one was rebuilt to an eleven bedroom car. These cars were originally built for the NY - Florida trains. Garry Spear >> >> SNIP >> > > Budd 10-6 Sleeper: > PRR? never (The Southern pool cars were PS - River Series) > Other road name? UP (transcon service) > >> >> SNIP >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Rats Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:45:22 +0000 Volkmer's book also shows the Harrisburg B1 with red window frames. His comment was on the order that the local shop had been rather ambitious in it's painting of the engine. > Chris asks: > >A couple of pictures show a > >freshly cleaned (and painted) B motor Rat doing some switching. It has very > >bright yellow handrails. Would the handrails have been painted yellow > >55-57? > > Ahhhh, the subject of painting rats! . It would seem that, as with many > railroads, the "station switcher", in this case the Harrisburg B1, was > often the subject of special attention from the shop crews. Photos from > H'burg from the late 1950's show yellow safety rails and red window sashes. > Yellow hand rails became standard in the early 50'd (don't have the exact > date) Prior to that white was the color used, although bare aluminum may > have been seen on occaision. Usually, the hand rails were filthy with dirt > and so look mostly black. Some photos from Sunnyside show the notorius > FCC color roofs...which some have translated into a paint scheme for all > PRR electrics :^( > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] GP-B's Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:11:09 +0000 Chris: I think that the GP-9B's were built in either 1958 or 1959 so they maybe outside of your modelling period. Ted >From: "Chany, Christopher" >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: RE: [PRR] GP-B's >Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:35:21 -0500 > >OK, I now know that the PRR did not have any GP7-B's. I have however seen >pictures of ABA lashups of GP9's. What was the common lashup for GP7's? >I'm asking because I don't think that GP9's fit my operating era 55-57. On >another note would the Pennsy run a lashup of GP7-A GP9-B GP7-A? The GPB's >are so strange looking I would love to get one on my layout! > > >Chris Chany > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] GP-B's Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:22:04 -0600 Hi Chris--You wrote-- > > I'm asking because I don't think that GP9's fit my operating era 55-57. > PRR received GP9's from 1955 thru 1959. "B's" were only received in 1958 and 1959. PRR GP9's came in two phases. The earlier ones had the smaller 36" fans on the top with the 48" dynamic brake fan. Later deliveries had fewer fans but they were all 48". In HO you can find both versions from P2K. Also the early ones got trainphone antennas while the later ones (large fans) did not. Sorry I don't have in front of me the engine number or date break between early and late. I model 1954 so I had to do this research to see if I "needed" GP9's. Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Rats Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:39:24 -0500 Bruce & Chris & List, Thanks for the clarification once again. PRR Electrics were painted DGLE-PRR Shade. The oxide (?) roof color which has been seen in some recent photo's of B1's at Sunnyside may have been some type of waterproofing applied in late years to seal the roofs. They were never painted like that originally. The red-sash Harrisburg B1 was likely someone's pet. Tricked up a little like the Keystoned B8a enginehouse switcher at East Altoona. A local exception rather than being commonplace. The danger is that these "exceptions" when caught on film become proof that this was the way it was done everywhere. This is simply not true. Be careful out there! Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:32 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Rats Chris asks: >A couple of pictures show a >freshly cleaned (and painted) B motor Rat doing some switching. It has very >bright yellow handrails. Would the handrails have been painted yellow >55-57? Ahhhh, the subject of painting rats! . It would seem that, as with many railroads, the "station switcher", in this case the Harrisburg B1, was often the subject of special attention from the shop crews. Photos from H'burg from the late 1950's show yellow safety rails and red window sashes. Yellow hand rails became standard in the early 50'd (don't have the exact date) Prior to that white was the color used, although bare aluminum may have been seen on occaision. Usually, the hand rails were filthy with dirt and so look mostly black. Some photos from Sunnyside show the notorius FCC color roofs...which some have translated into a paint scheme for all PRR electrics :^( Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:08:12 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: FW: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars Yes, but the PRR Florida cars had fluted letterboards. The Walthers car (a UP prototype) had smooth letterboards, like the Congo (which, of course, never had sleepers). The reference to the Southern cars was offered because someone, I forget who, thought they might be Budd. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Garry Spear wrote: > There were PRR Budd built 10-6 Sleepers. > Please see: http://PRR.Railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/GSPEAR_PRR_SL_RapidsX.htm > for a list. Only 6 cars and one was rebuilt to an eleven bedroom car. > > These cars were originally built for the NY - Florida trains. > > Garry Spear > > >> > >> SNIP > >> > > > > Budd 10-6 Sleeper: > > PRR? never (The Southern pool cars were PS - River Series) > > Other road name? UP (transcon service) > > > >> > >> SNIP > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] panhandle artifact Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:42:29 -0600 A picture of a Denniso, Ohio station appears in the following link: http://www.west2k.com/ohstations/tusc.htm -----Original Message----- From: SHanlon@dnr.state.md.us [mailto:SHanlon@dnr.state.md.us] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 6:54 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] panhandle artifact i was in dennison ohio over the weekend and as i was driving around i came across a former PRR freight house. today it is a pizza joint, but the owner chose to put his sign under the PRR Freight House signage. i clicked a picture of it. as soon as it comes back from the developer, i'll post a link. -steve hanlon ########################################### This message has been scanned for viruses. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:59:26 EST From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: RE: [PRR] GP-B's In a message dated Tue, 19 Mar 2002 8:44:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Chany, Christopher" writes: > OK, I now know that the PRR did not have any GP7-B's. I have however seen > pictures of ABA lashups of GP9's. What was the common lashup for GP7's? > I'm asking because I don't think that GP9's fit my operating era 55-57. On > another note would the Pennsy run a lashup of GP7-A GP9-B GP7-A? The GPB's > are so strange looking I would love to get one on my layout! > Chris, The GP7's were originally purchased and designated as switchers not road locomotives. They were used in that capacity for the most part and on locals. Eventually, they saw services on branch lines. GP9's except for the phase III were on the property by 1957. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] NS steals from the PRR Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:09:46 -0500 Listers, It seems that NS Doesn't have an original thought in it's corporate mind. Norfolk Southern's 2001 Annual Report Declares Clear Tracks Ahead NORFOLK, VA - Norfolk Southern Corporation (NYSE: NSC) has issued its 2001 Annual Report, printing 206,000 copies and posting it on the company Web site. A green track signal - which to railroaders represents clear tracks ahead - dominates the cover and the Web site. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:43:51 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "S J Lash" To: "Garry Spear" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars > Garry, According to Vol 4 of "The Passenger Car Library" by W. David > Randall, there were only (2) Budd built 10/6 splrs built for Pennsy after > 1930. I have looked at both your site and Rob's and find that it appears > the author is mistaken. He only lists "Scioto > Rapids" and "Sturgeon Rapids". Further it states these were built for > general service, and were identical to (12) built for the Seaboard. ( I am > surmising here)... for the author lists smooth sides and the diagram shows > fluted sides below the window belt. The only conclusion I can draw is that > the SAL sleepers were smooth, while the Pennsy's were fluted including the > area listing the car name. The upper letterboard area is smooth. > Hopefully we can find someone who can reconcile these two listings and > maybe add them to both sites also. Jim Lash---- Original Message ----- > From: "Garry Spear" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:40 AM > Subject: FW: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars > > > > There were PRR Budd built 10-6 Sleepers. > > Please see: > http://PRR.Railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/GSPEAR_PRR_SL_RapidsX.htm > > for a list. Only 6 cars and one was rebuilt to an eleven bedroom car. > > > > These cars were originally built for the NY - Florida trains. > > > > Garry Spear > > > > >> > > >> SNIP > > >> > > > > > > Budd 10-6 Sleeper: > > > PRR? never (The Southern pool cars were PS - River Series) > > > Other road name? UP (transcon service) > > > > > >> > > >> SNIP > > >> > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Denton" Subject: RE: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:31:25 -0500 SEABOARD'S were flutted also. The RFP, SAL and PRR had cars from same floor plan and lot built for the Silver Fleet, as well as the ones that PRR, ACL, RFP and FEC had built together for the Champions. Larry - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Mar 02 21:08:50 EST From: LINKM@timken.com Subject: [PRR] ARBOUR MODELS PRR J-1 LIST: I WOULD LIKE TO TROUBLE YOU WITH YET ANOTHER QUESTION. RECENTLY ON E-BAY , I CAME ACROSS AN ARBOUR MODELS PRR J-1. I DIDN'T BUY IT, ONLY BECAUSE I TRIED TO RESEARCH THE COMPANY A LITTLE AND CAME UP WITH NOTHING. THE ENGINE WENT FO R MORE THAN I WAS WILLING TO PAY FOR AN UNKNOWN, HOWEVER, I WOULD STILL LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT THEM AS ONE MAY REAPPEAR IN THE FUTURE. DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT THI S COMPANY AND IF THEY STILL MAKE IT? THANKS AGAIN. MATT LINK PRR-CRESTLINE IN HO SCALE FRIEND OF THE CRESTLINE ROUNDHOUSE ********************************************************************** This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company ********************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] ARBOUR MODELS PRR J-1 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:44:19 -0500 Matt:- Bowser bought the tooling. This was a very poor quality kit that required a great deal of fiddling with and often parts replacement just to get it to operate at all. Be happy you didn't bid! Gregg Mahlkov P.S. Please don't SHOUT. All caps are hard to read. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:08 PM Subject: [PRR] ARBOUR MODELS PRR J-1 > > LIST: I WOULD LIKE TO TROUBLE YOU WITH YET ANOTHER QUESTION. RECENTLY ON E-BAY > , I CAME ACROSS AN ARBOUR MODELS PRR J-1. I DIDN'T BUY IT, ONLY BECAUSE I TRIED > TO RESEARCH THE COMPANY A LITTLE AND CAME UP WITH NOTHING. THE ENGINE WENT FO > R MORE THAN I WAS WILLING TO PAY FOR AN UNKNOWN, HOWEVER, I WOULD STILL LIKE TO > KNOW ABOUT THEM AS ONE MAY REAPPEAR IN THE FUTURE. DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT THI > S COMPANY AND IF THEY STILL MAKE IT? THANKS AGAIN. > MATT LINK > PRR-CRESTLINE IN HO SCALE > FRIEND OF THE CRESTLINE ROUNDHOUSE > > > ********************************************************************** > This message and any attachments are intended for the > individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this > communication to others; also please notify the sender by > replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. > > The Timken Company > ********************************************************************** > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:41:12 -0500 Bowser will have the B-6sb done by years end I would think. The mold is being made as I type. I took 60 digital photographs of the engine for Lee English in October of 2001. I believe he might also be making a variation kit because the B-6sb at Strasburg has some differences like the front of the cylinders are different-Once side is round and the other has a square bracket. Greg Vlassopoulos ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6 > In a message dated 3/19/02 7:23:37 AM Central Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > << Bowser has a B6 under development. I'd bet you could order one by the end > of > the year. >> > > That's good news, but I suspect it will be more than a used brass loco. My > Red Ball (!) B6 is a very smooth runner and I paid $115 for it about 5 years > ago. Since I run,not collect, the fact it is not as detailed as a new $500 > one, actually is an advantage to me as I don't worry about delicate parts > falling off or the mechanism not holding up. > And I don't feel reluctant to weather it :-). I'm sure I will have to > remotor it for DCC someday, but for now I run it straight DC on our club > modular layout. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:57:52 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Creek Series Duplex Sleepers From: "Douglas Nelson" I am looking for a roster of car names for the 12-4 Creek Series Duplex Sleeper. Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:41:36 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Off-road P70 Hi everyone, A couple of years back, there was discussion about roads OTHER THAN the PRR which used P54 coaches. In most cases, these were cars which were sold off by the PRR and then ended up elsewhere. This makes me kind of wonder, did the P70 also go "off-road" in this manner? I mean, what roads had P70 coaches? Right off, PRR, LIRR, and PRSL come to mind. And of course PC by inheritance. But were there others? I myself can't think of any, but maybe someone else knows more on this than I do... - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:54:30 -0500 From: TWRimer@uss.com Subject: [PRR] Re: B6sb Thank God - finally a B6 at an affordable price (at least I would hope so). I have been trying to dream up a way to come up with one for years. Even considered acquiring a Gilbert HO version and super detailing it. I'm sure Gilbert's rendition was REAL CLOSE to the prototype dimentionally (plus or minus two or three feet maybe). Also considered getting an A5 boiler and and somehow elongating it. I wrote to Bowser years ago asking them to consider producing one but never imagined that they would. Good old Bowser - God bless em' . Tom Rimer twrimer@uss.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:14:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] ARBOUR MODELS PRR J-1 Hi Matt, The Arbour Models PRR J-1 and C&O Allegheny were produced back in the early eighties. The kit was one of the first to include a can motor and smooth gearbox in a Zamac (pot-metal) kit. The motors were the only thing worth saving if you were unfortunate enough to buy one. The castings were sloppy and poorly detailed. The tender sides were often bowed due to uneven cooling in the molds. I have only ever seen one of the Allegheny kits assembled. About 70% of the detail castings had to be replaced with brass detail parts and the kit took over 6 months to build by a professional due to the inaccuracies in the alignments and machining. The kit was done on an hourly basis for someone that really wanted that kit built. The final cost was over $800.00. In 1984, that was an enormous amount of money but the cost was almost all labor. If you ever see one on Ebay, point and laugh but stay away from it. I had gotten one unassembled in a trade for an AHM USRA 2-8-2 that I kit-bashed into a PRR L-2 Mikado. I had assembled many of the Bowser kits so I didn't really think it was a problem until I started to look at the kit and how bad it was. I later sold the kit for $35.00 after carrying it around to meets for two years. Regards, Nick Kulp >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:08 PM >Subject: [PRR] ARBOUR MODELS PRR J-1 > > >> >> LIST: I WOULD LIKE TO TROUBLE YOU WITH YET ANOTHER QUESTION. RECENTLY >ON >E-BAY >> , I CAME ACROSS AN ARBOUR MODELS PRR J-1. I DIDN'T BUY IT, ONLY BECAUSE >I >TRIED >> TO RESEARCH THE COMPANY A LITTLE AND CAME UP WITH NOTHING. THE ENGINE >WENT FO >> R MORE THAN I WAS WILLING TO PAY FOR AN UNKNOWN, HOWEVER, I WOULD STILL >LIKE TO >> KNOW ABOUT THEM AS ONE MAY REAPPEAR IN THE FUTURE. DOES ANYONE KNOW >ABOUT THI >> S COMPANY AND IF THEY STILL MAKE IT? THANKS AGAIN. >> MATT LINK >> PRR-CRESTLINE IN HO SCALE >> FRIEND OF THE CRESTLINE ROUNDHOUSE http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SHanlon@dnr.state.md.us Subject: [PRR] a different rockville excursion Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:55:52 -0500 since i missed my chance at getting a ticket on the 100th anniversary excursion of rockville viaduct, i'm taking my own rail journey. i will ride the former PRR and B&O from BWI to Pittsburgh via Washington DC, then from Pittsburgh i'll head toward Philly and back to BWI. total cost of trip $77.70 plus hotel in Pittsburgh. i'll be on trains all day sunday, but it should be worth it. i'm thinking the days of amtrak are numbered and the long sections of this route may very well be rare mileage in the very near future. i've never taken the train past martinsburg and i've never been on the middle division. i should pass some great train action along the way. if i can swing an extra day, i'll try to spend it in pittsburgh... is not having a car in pittsburgh a bad thing for rail fanning? anyone want to join me in my rail odyssey? -steve hanlon ########################################### This message has been scanned for viruses. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:26:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Creek Series Duplex Sleepers From: Jerry Britton On 3/19/02 20:57:52, "Douglas Nelson" wrote: > > I am looking for a roster of car names for the 12-4 Creek Series Duplex > Sleeper. > Car # Car Name/Rename 1954 assignment, if known 8361 CABIN CREEK Broadway Limited 8362 CEDAR CREEK Broadway Limited 8363 CENTER CREEK Broadway Limited 8364 CHARTIERS CREEK 8365 CHATHAM CREEK Spirit of St. Louis 8366 CHERRY CREEK Broadway Limited 8367 CHICKLES CREEK 8368 CHIMNEY CREEK General 8369 CHIPPEWA CREEK General 8370 CRYSTAL CREEK Spirit of St. Louis 8371 CLEAR CREEK Spirit of St. Louis 8372 CLIFF CREEK: 9/56 to CHARLES LOCKHART Pittsburgher 8373 CLOUD CREEK: 9/6/56 to ALFRED HUNT: 10/11/56 to ALFRED E. HUNT Pittsburgher 8374 CLUB CREEK Admiral 8375 CLYDE CREEK Admiral 8376 COLDWATER CREEK Pittsburgher 8377 COLLEGE CREEK Pittsburgher 8378 CONEWAGO CREEK 8379 CONNOQUENESSING CREEK 8380 CONODOGUINET CREEK: 8/1/56 to BENJAMIN BAKEWELL Cincinnati Limited 8381 COUNTRY CREEK: 9/56 to JOSEPH HORNE Cincinnati Limited 8382 CRANE CREEK Indianapolis Limited; Red Arrow 8383 CROSS CREEK Indianapolis Limited; Red Arrow 8384 CYPRESS CREEK ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Off-road P70 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:05:22 -0500 Claus, Are you referring to during PRR years, or after Amtrak? P70's have gone to a number of tourist operations around the country. They were the mainstay of the Adirondack Railway for example. The operation out of San Antonio still uses them, I believe. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claus Schlund" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 1:41 AM Subject: [PRR] Off-road P70 > Hi everyone, > > A couple of years back, there was discussion about > roads OTHER THAN the PRR which used P54 coaches. In most > cases, these were cars which were sold off by the PRR > and then ended up elsewhere. > > This makes me kind of wonder, did the P70 also go > "off-road" in this manner? I mean, what roads had P70 > coaches? Right off, PRR, LIRR, and PRSL come to mind. > And of course PC by inheritance. But were there others? > I myself can't think of any, but maybe someone else > knows more on this than I do... > > - Claus > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AHARTPRR137@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:22:48 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Off-road P70 --part1_a8.866fa61.29ca1158_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/02 1:49:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, schlund@cwnet.com writes: > A couple of years back, there was discussion about > roads OTHER THAN the PRR which used P54 coaches. In most > cases, these were cars which were sold off by the PRR > and then ended up elsewhere. > > This makes me kind of wonder, did the P70 also go > "off-road" in this manner? I mean, what roads had P70 > coaches? Right off, PRR, LIRR, and PRSL come to mind. > And of course PC by inheritance. But were there others? > I myself can't think of any, but maybe someone else > knows more on this than I do. > The Bessemer & Lake Erie RR had 6 coaches (204-209) built in 1923 by ACF. The cars looked exactly like P70's. Andy Hart --part1_a8.866fa61.29ca1158_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/02 1:49:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, schlund@cwnet.com writes:

  
A couple of years back, there was discussion about
roads OTHER THAN the PRR which used P54 coaches. In most
cases, these were cars which were sold off by the PRR
and then ended up elsewhere.

This makes me kind of wonder, did the P70 also go
"off-road" in this manner? I mean, what roads had P70
coaches? Right off, PRR, LIRR, and PRSL come to mind.
And of course PC by inheritance. But were there others?
I myself can't think of any, but maybe someone else
knows more on this than I do.

The Bessemer & Lake Erie RR had 6 coaches (204-209) built in 1923 by ACF.  The cars looked exactly like P70's.

Andy Hart

 --part1_a8.866fa61.29ca1158_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] a different rockville excursion Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:45:12 +0000 It has been sometime since I have been in Pittsburgh but dependent on what you want to see you shouldn't need a car. There are several hotels downtown and you can get the trolley downtown under the US Steel building and posibly right from the station by now which will either take you to the three rivers area or across the old PRR bridge to the south side of the Monongahela where you can get off and visit the old P&LE station square complex. It used to have a fantastic restaurant in the station years ago and I have no idea if it is still there. There is also a SHeraton there. You can ride the trolleys to Library and the other route for a couple of bucks each or you can photograph the trains coming across the Allegheny right by the station down town. P&LE traffic was spotty at Station Square. if you want to see Conway or other locations you will need a car or a local railfan who would be interested in helping you out. > since i missed my chance at getting a ticket on the 100th anniversary > excursion of rockville viaduct, i'm taking my own rail journey. > > i will ride the former PRR and B&O from BWI to Pittsburgh via Washington DC, > then from > Pittsburgh i'll head toward Philly and back to BWI. total cost of trip > $77.70 plus hotel in Pittsburgh. i'll be on trains all day sunday, but > it should be worth it. > > i'm thinking the days of amtrak are numbered and the long sections of this > route may very well be rare mileage in the very near future. i've never > taken the train past martinsburg and i've never been on the middle division. > i should pass some great train action along the way. if i can swing an > extra day, i'll try to spend it in pittsburgh... > > is not having a car in pittsburgh a bad thing for rail fanning? > > anyone want to join me in my rail odyssey? > > -steve hanlon > ########################################### > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:56:51 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] SWICTHERS AND LINES WEST Regarding your "Switcher" question here's an item from the list, some time ago, that I saved - note that only 1 class A was assigned west of Pittsburgh... Dick Ross Cleveland [PRR] A-5s and 44 tonner assignments A-5s Divisional assignments as of 1939 Philadelphia Terminal Division No's. 1289,1168,1332,891,713,76,477,411,913,1540,1215,94,1690,2762, 172,677,560,606,610,1587,1591,1098,549,156,2041,855,3890, 3892,3893,3894,3895 Philadelphia Division No's 4039,371,330,3891 New York Division No's 511,561,1661,643,136 Maryland Division No's 112,761 Wilkes-Barre No's 1270,1800 Fort Wayne No. 730 Williamsport No. 1203 Sold...No. 281 Sold to Worth Steel Co. of Claymont, Del.... (Later Colorado Fuel and Iron.) Was sold in 1930. Engine No. 94 is at the railroad museum of Penna. Engines built 12/1916,1/1917,11/1917 and 3/1924 (No's 3890 thru 3895.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- GE 44 Tonner Regional assignments as of 1963 Philadelphia Region No's 9323,9325,9333,9337,9340,9341,9342,9343,9345,9346,9347,9348, 9349,9353,9356 Altoona Works No's 9312,9324,9329,9331,9332,9334,9335,9336,9339 New York Region No's 9314,9316,9320,9321,9338,9355 Southwestern Region No's 9315,9330,9351 Northern Region No's 9352,9354,9357 Northwestern Region No. 9326 Buckeye Region No. 9317 PRSL No. 9328 Retired No's 9313,9318,9319,9322,9327,9350 Scrapped No. 9344 (due to fire at Meadows,N.J. roundhouse in 1962.) Engines built 1947,1948 and 1949 Engines No's.9325-9349 380 H.P, 9312-9324 and 9350-9357 400 H.P. Some engines were sold to other smaller railroads over the years. Engine 9331 was sold to the Strasburg RR as their No. 33 The article also gives a listing (as of 1975) of the engines sold to other railroads. Its possible some of them are still around today. Well thats it...have fun. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Q-2 Video footage Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:26:51 -0500 Seems to me that a week or two ago someone was looking for video footage of a Q-2 in revenue service. This morning I was looking at some old videos and came across a Q-2 runby with a freight on Sunday River's Steam on Horseshoe Curve Volume 2. It's not bad quality. It's on a tape that combines Volumes 1 & 2. A lot of really good, rare stuff on those two tapes. Close to an hour total. I think it may still be available. Any other shots of Q-2's on video out there? Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:14:34 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Arbour J-1 Everything that has been said about the Arbour J-1 is correct. (I possess one of the few of them that was ever completed and functional. I did not build a tender, but replaced it with the appropriate Bowser tender. It runs, needs broad radii. The worse part of the project was milling the drivers so that they would rotate properly. It makes a great static model, some would say an anchor weight! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] SWICTHERS AND LINES WEST Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:04:59 -0600 And here all the time I thought only diesels were switchers. And that steam engines used for switching were called Shifters! Ha! Ha! Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! "Regarding your "Switcher" question...." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:27:45 -0500 (EST) From: Will Subject: [PRR] Dont let the image name scare you away from taking a look Lady sent me this pic and is trying to determine where this station is.... http://www.bluemoon.net/~alcoman/temp/NYCTerminal56.jpg... Obviously a Christmas display.... might not even be an NYC station... Will Semanchuk-Enser Blue Moon General Manager alcoman@bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp. V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: Re: [PRR] SWICTHERS AND LINES WEST Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:32:26 -0500 List, Is there a source for finding steam "shifter" asignments at the various yards in and around Pgh? Thanks Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] SWICTHERS AND LINES WEST > Regarding your "Switcher" question here's an item from the list, some time > ago, that I saved - note that only 1 class A was assigned west of > Pittsburgh... > > Dick Ross > Cleveland > > > [PRR] A-5s and 44 tonner assignments > > A-5s Divisional assignments as of 1939 > > Philadelphia Terminal Division > No's. 1289,1168,1332,891,713,76,477,411,913,1540,1215,94,1690,2762, > 172,677,560,606,610,1587,1591,1098,549,156,2041,855,3890, > 3892,3893,3894,3895 > > Philadelphia Division > No's 4039,371,330,3891 > > New York Division > No's 511,561,1661,643,136 > > Maryland Division > No's 112,761 > > Wilkes-Barre > No's 1270,1800 > > Fort Wayne > No. 730 > > Williamsport > No. 1203 > > Sold...No. 281 Sold to Worth Steel Co. of Claymont, Del.... > (Later Colorado Fuel and Iron.) Was sold in > 1930. > Engine No. 94 is at the railroad museum of Penna. > > Engines built 12/1916,1/1917,11/1917 and 3/1924 (No's 3890 thru 3895.) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- > > GE 44 Tonner Regional assignments as of 1963 > > Philadelphia Region > No's 9323,9325,9333,9337,9340,9341,9342,9343,9345,9346,9347,9348, > 9349,9353,9356 > > Altoona Works > No's 9312,9324,9329,9331,9332,9334,9335,9336,9339 > > New York Region > No's 9314,9316,9320,9321,9338,9355 > > Southwestern Region > No's 9315,9330,9351 > > Northern Region > No's 9352,9354,9357 > > Northwestern Region > No. 9326 > > Buckeye Region > No. 9317 > > PRSL > No. 9328 > > Retired > No's 9313,9318,9319,9322,9327,9350 > > Scrapped > No. 9344 (due to fire at Meadows,N.J. roundhouse in 1962.) > > Engines built 1947,1948 and 1949 > Engines No's.9325-9349 380 H.P, 9312-9324 and 9350-9357 400 H.P. > > Some engines were sold to other smaller railroads over the years. > Engine 9331 was sold to the Strasburg RR as their No. 33 > The article also gives a listing (as of 1975) of the engines > sold to other railroads. Its possible some of them are still > around today. > > Well thats it...have fun. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:09:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] a different rockville excursion From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" I was in Station Square last summer and was disappointed to learn that a couple of the restaurants I enjoyed were closed. In fact there were several vacant spaces in the complex. The entire character of the area is likely to change soon. Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation sold Station Square to a developer (forget which one) and unless something has changed, a new building or complex of some kind is to built in the open area beside the P&LE office building. The 0-4-0T and bobber caboose that were at Station Square have been moved downriver to Sewickley Park. Some of the preserved railcars being used as shops were gone. BUT, despite all that it is an excellent train watching site. CSX (ex- P&LE) has 36 some odd trains a day passing the P&LE building. NS (ex-PRR) is on the "shelf" above Station Square. You can ride the incline up to Mt. Washington and get a wonderful view of Pittsburgh and environs, especially if a front has just blown through from the west and cleared out the air. And as noted previously you can ride the trolley to and from Station Square. If you can get into North Side, the Ft. Wayne line passes right through West Park and you can watch trains all day long from the pedestrian bridge. If you go a bit farther north, you can hang out by the Ohio Connecting Bridge and watch NS traffic enter and exit the bridge. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- >From: ndbprr@att.net >To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk), SHanlon@dnr.state.md.us >Subject: Re: [PRR] a different rockville excursion >Date: Wed, 20 Mar, 2002, 10:45 > > It has been sometime since I have been in Pittsburgh but > dependent on what you want to see you shouldn't need a > car. There are several hotels downtown and you can get > the trolley downtown under the US Steel building and > posibly right from the station by now which will either > take you to the three rivers area or across the old PRR > bridge to the south side of the Monongahela where you > can get off and visit the old P&LE station square > complex. It used to have a fantastic restaurant in the > station years ago and I have no idea if it is still > there. There is also a SHeraton there. You can ride the > trolleys to Library and the other route for a couple of > bucks each or you can photograph the trains coming > across the Allegheny right by the station down town. > P&LE traffic was spotty at Station Square. if you want > to see Conway or other locations you will need a car or > a local railfan who would be interested in helping you > out. > >> since i missed my chance at getting a ticket on the 100th anniversary >> excursion of rockville viaduct, i'm taking my own rail journey. >> >> i will ride the former PRR and B&O from BWI to Pittsburgh via Washington DC, >> then from >> Pittsburgh i'll head toward Philly and back to BWI. total cost of trip >> $77.70 plus hotel in Pittsburgh. i'll be on trains all day sunday, but >> it should be worth it. >> >> i'm thinking the days of amtrak are numbered and the long sections of this >> route may very well be rare mileage in the very near future. i've never >> taken the train past martinsburg and i've never been on the middle division. >> i should pass some great train action along the way. if i can swing an >> extra day, i'll try to spend it in pittsburgh... >> >> is not having a car in pittsburgh a bad thing for rail fanning? >> >> anyone want to join me in my rail odyssey? >> >> -steve hanlon >> ########################################### >> >> This message has been scanned for viruses. >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Sean121982@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:11:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] a different rockville excursion --part1_17f.5648892.29ca6318_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/2002 11:54:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, ndbprr@att.net writes: > It used to have a fantastic restaurant in the > station years ago and I have no idea if it is still > there. It's still there, and still fantastic. Sean McDonnell Gonzo Railfan/Conrail Modeler/Pittrailfans and Industrial_Modelers Moderator The University of Pittsburgh: Where Logic Takes a Holiday! --part1_17f.5648892.29ca6318_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/2002 11:54:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, ndbprr@att.net writes:


It used to have a fantastic restaurant in the
station years ago and I have no idea if it is still
there.


It's still there, and still fantastic.

Sean McDonnell

Gonzo Railfan/Conrail Modeler/Pittrailfans and Industrial_Modelers Moderator
The University of Pittsburgh: Where Logic Takes a Holiday! --part1_17f.5648892.29ca6318_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:26:34 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS PHL Chapter "High Line" Received the following message from PRRT&HS PHL Chapter Prez Al G. He wanted me to pass it along. For those of you who may have forgotten the "High Line" is the PRRT&HS PHL Chapter magazine. It's named after the PRR's West Philadelphia Elevated line which was in slang referred to as the High Line. If I remember correctly the line was later officially named the High Line in the post PRR daze. Al B ============== In the next "High Line" which is primarily about the West Chester Railroad, we are restarting a feature that I hope will continue in almost every issue that we do in the future. It will be called "Pennsy Pictorial" and will consist of favorite photos from the membership that they have either taken themselves or that are in their collections. The photos should be of PRR subjects and unique in some way, or of particular interest to our Chapter members. Each photo submitted should have a caption explaining the location, approximate date if known, and a brief description of its historical significance, or interesting subject matter. Any member can send as many photos as he or she desires. Photos that are copyrighted or have been obtained from the collections of established museums or other archiving entities, cannot be used without the owner's permission. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Save Time & Money Outsource Your Web Design & Development with Elance Post Your Project for FREE http://us.click.yahoo.com/kZNCOD/V.zDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:26:34 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS PHL Chapter "High Line" Received the following message from PRRT&HS PHL Chapter Prez Al G. He wanted me to pass it along. For those of you who may have forgotten the "High Line" is the PRRT&HS PHL Chapter magazine. It's named after the PRR's West Philadelphia Elevated line which was in slang referred to as the High Line. If I remember correctly the line was later officially named the High Line in the post PRR daze. Al B ============== In the next "High Line" which is primarily about the West Chester Railroad, we are restarting a feature that I hope will continue in almost every issue that we do in the future. It will be called "Pennsy Pictorial" and will consist of favorite photos from the membership that they have either taken themselves or that are in their collections. The photos should be of PRR subjects and unique in some way, or of particular interest to our Chapter members. Each photo submitted should have a caption explaining the location, approximate date if known, and a brief description of its historical significance, or interesting subject matter. Any member can send as many photos as he or she desires. Photos that are copyrighted or have been obtained from the collections of established museums or other archiving entities, cannot be used without the owner's permission. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:53:07 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Any more info on the Bowser B6sb? Hello list, For anyone in the know: any more information on the Bowser B6sb would be greatly appreciated. I'm interested primarily in which variant(s) will be produced. I'm wondering if the kit will have the (older) large steel cab or the (later) small steel cab. I'm also wondering about whether the kit will have the power reverse (I'm away from my reference material, but I think some early B6sb engines were manual reverse). I am also wondering about the cylinder slant; I may be confusing the A5s and the B6sb here (the last 6 A5s engines had a different cylinder slant than the earlier engines). Will Bowser be creating 56" drivers for the kit? Once again, I appreciate your patience; I'm about 5000 miles from my reference material right now. As you may have gathered, I will be eagerly awaiting this kit! Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank & Andrea Amato" Subject: [PRR] Buffalo line questions Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:08:06 -0600 Hi all, I'm in the process of re-working my layout plans. I had drawn up plans for the 4-track main between Harrisburg and Lewistown (N scale), but it seemed overkill, since I'll be operating "solo" most of the time. I'm now looking at the Buffalo main, in the Sunbury - Williamsport area. I'll be able to run (some) passenger trains, as well as coal drags and mixed freights. Kind of a Broad Way "lite". I will be keeping the Philly Delaware Ave branch, however! Per my (draft) track plan [http://home.revealed.net/amato/graphics/layout.gif], staging will represent Northumberland / Enola (southbound) and Williamsport / Buffalo (northbound). I'm not totally "sold" on the Milton location - maybe set Northumberland here instead? Now some Qs: 1. Messages in the archive refer to single-tracking the Buffalo main in the '50s. Can anyone point me to more details / status circa 1960? 2. Anyone with some 1960 passenger train schedules for this route? Thanks in advance, Frank ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Sean121982@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:16:34 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] a different rockville excursion --part1_115.e754dcd.29ca8e72_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/2002 5:14:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, harperd@tamug.tamu.edu writes: > a new building or complex of > some kind is to built in the open area beside the P&LE office building. > The new Bessemer Court area is already under construction, and I hear a Hard Rock Cafe is going to be one of the new attractions built there. Sean McDonnell The University of Pittsburgh: Where Logic Takes a Holiday! --part1_115.e754dcd.29ca8e72_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/2002 5:14:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, harperd@tamug.tamu.edu writes:


a new building or complex of
some kind is to built in the open area beside the P&LE office building.


The new Bessemer Court area is already under construction, and I hear a Hard Rock Cafe is going to be one of the new attractions built there.

Sean McDonnell

The University of Pittsburgh: Where Logic Takes a Holiday! --part1_115.e754dcd.29ca8e72_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] a different rockville excursion Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:25:30 -0500 3 more cars are being added to the Saturday excursion so all of those who missed out may have a chances. Also, if Norfolk Southern approves it, another train will run on sunday and everyone will definitely get an opportunity to ride. goto v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net for details. Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 7:55 AM Subject: [PRR] a different rockville excursion > since i missed my chance at getting a ticket on the 100th anniversary > excursion of rockville viaduct, i'm taking my own rail journey. > > i will ride the former PRR and B&O from BWI to Pittsburgh via Washington DC, > then from > Pittsburgh i'll head toward Philly and back to BWI. total cost of trip > $77.70 plus hotel in Pittsburgh. i'll be on trains all day sunday, but > it should be worth it. > > i'm thinking the days of amtrak are numbered and the long sections of this > route may very well be rare mileage in the very near future. i've never > taken the train past martinsburg and i've never been on the middle division. > i should pass some great train action along the way. if i can swing an > extra day, i'll try to spend it in pittsburgh... > > is not having a car in pittsburgh a bad thing for rail fanning? > > anyone want to join me in my rail odyssey? > > -steve hanlon > ########################################### > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Any more info on the Bowser B6sb? Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:39:30 -0500 Doug- As I mentioned before, in October I took 60 digital photos of the B-6sb that is at the PA RR Museum in Strasburg. Whatever that B has in reference to your questions is what I expect the kit to look/come with. I am excited to get one. Nothing pulls like a Bowser, especially when you re-gear them. greg vlassopoulos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Kisala" To: "PRR talk" Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:53 PM Subject: [PRR] Any more info on the Bowser B6sb? > Hello list, > > For anyone in the know: any more information on the > Bowser B6sb would be greatly appreciated. > > I'm interested primarily in which variant(s) will be > produced. > > I'm wondering if the kit will have the (older) large > steel cab or the (later) small steel cab. I'm also > wondering about whether the kit will have the power > reverse (I'm away from my reference material, but I > think some early B6sb engines were manual reverse). I > am also wondering about the cylinder slant; I may be > confusing the A5s and the B6sb here (the last 6 A5s > engines had a different cylinder slant than the > earlier engines). > > Will Bowser be creating 56" drivers for the kit? > > Once again, I appreciate your patience; I'm about 5000 > miles from my reference material right now. As you > may have gathered, I will be eagerly awaiting this > kit! > > Doug > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:50:15 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Rockville Limited sold out both days Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. wrote: > > 3 more cars are being added to the Saturday excursion so all of those who > missed out may have a chances. Also, if Norfolk Southern approves it, > another train will run on sunday and everyone will definitely get an > opportunity to ride. Greetings to Greg and the List: The Rockville Limited excursion train is a good news/bad news situation: 1. It was lengthened with two more coaches (making 10 in all) plus another private car (this one not open to public). Add to that count the Amcafe and the two already-planned private cars on which revenue space was, plus Bennett's PRR 120, and you have a 15-car train, all of the revenue space for which is sold out. 2. Yes, a Sunday trip was added, and that, too, has already been sold out for at least a week--with no advertising whatsoever. The Harrisburg Chapter of NRHS is still turning away people. Good news for the chapter treasury and for photo opportunities, bad news if you wanted to ride and aren't already holding a ticket. Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:54:04 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Rockville Limited sold out both days If anyone holding a ticket can't go (either day) and wants to sell, please let me know (shadow@dementia.org). Various family events, most of them involving burials, kept me busy long enough that I missed out. :-( > 2. Yes, a Sunday trip was added, and that, too, has already been sold > out for at least a week--with no advertising whatsoever. The Harrisburg > Chapter of NRHS is still turning away people. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:58:56 -0800 (PST) From: joe hildenbrand Subject: [PRR] MP54 Info Greetings, I am currently making a model of the MP54 for use in the Microsoft Train Simulator. Thanks to the diagrams at Robert Schoenberg's web site, PRR Power II, and some other misc. books, I have a pretty accurate workable computerized version of the MP54. Also, a customized cabview will be included. When I complete this project, you can download it for free. I'll post the web address to download. I'm just about finished with the shapes and was wandering if anybody can answer some questions for me? What kind of whistle or horn was used. I have some recent pictures that show a single horn on each end. Earlier pics show a whistle above the operator's cab window. Did this whistle make a sound simular to a British steam whistle? What kind of throttle dose it have. I looked at the decayed MP54 at Strasburg, it looked like it had only 4 or 5 notches. Is this true, or did it have an 8 notch throttle? And was the direction control a separate device, or did it have it's own dedicated control. What was the top speed for these things? Did they have a bell? I know most had cab signals and a dead-mans switch (Foot Pedal), did any have an alerter like the current Silverliners have? Dose anybody have a sound recording. The default sounds that will be used for the MP54 in the simulator will be the Acela sounds, which is mostly a blower sound, not the heavy gear grinding sound the MP54 made. Thanks in advance for any information anybody can give me. As a reminder, I'm making this project free for everybody. This is my way of helping spread and preserve the greatness of the PRR. You can send a private message to j.l.hildenbrand@worldnet.att.net for more info, and/or if you want to me to send you progress pictures. I use this Yahoo account for PRRtalk only. Thanks Again, Joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:22:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Rockville Limited sold out both days From: Jerry Britton On 3/20/02 11:50 PM, Dan Cupper at (cupper@att.net) wrote: > 2. Yes, a Sunday trip was added, and that, too, has already been sold > out for at least a week--with no advertising whatsoever. The Harrisburg > Chapter of NRHS is still turning away people. > Sunday is the normal meeting date for the Northern Central Chapter. Bill Lewis, president of the chapter and also a member of the Harrisburg chapter NRHS made an executive decision... The Northern Central Chapter will have a "no meeting meeting" and will man an Open House at HARRIS Tower that day. It won't be open when the Rockville Express leaves town, but it will still be open when it returns. I think the hours will be 10-3, but I'm not sure yet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SHanlon@dnr.state.md.us Subject: RE: [PRR] a different rockville excursion Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:37:46 -0500 according to the info line, both saturday and sunday trips are sold out. 717-232-6221 -steve hanlon >:3 more cars are being added to the Saturday excursion so all >:of those who missed out may have a chances. Also, if Norfolk Southern approves it, >:another train will run on sunday and everyone will definitely get an >:opportunity to ride. goto v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net for details. >: >:Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. ########################################### This message has been scanned for viruses. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] IF the PRR were still around Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:02:26 +0000 Any comments regarding motive power if the PRR was still around? Would the CR roster have been representative? Would the PRR have made the same choices regarding motors? What about corridor services? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: [PRR] airbrush selection Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:10:49 -0500 Friends: There was some discussion about selecting an airbrush a few weeks ago. The Badger airbrush Co. has a very nice web site that lists many topics, one of which is a page on airbrush types. http://www.badgerairbrush.com/air101.htm Check out this site if you want more information about airbrushes. Lew Matt Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Septic and Energy Systems Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] IF the PRR were still around Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:46:52 -0500 Norm:- It's an interesting thought, but so many factors would have been involved that almost anything could have happened. The conditions that led to the merger and demise of the PRR began a long time before 1968, 1976, or 1999 so that the changes that would have left PRR intact might have also significantly altered what type of motive power a PRR would have in 2002. I would prefer to speculate on what would have happened if the T1 and Q2 had beaten the living sh** out of anything General Motors could field! Or how about a PRR with GG2's and DD3's on the main lines and H15's on the branches? Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:02 AM Subject: [PRR] IF the PRR were still around > Any comments regarding motive power if the PRR was still > around? Would the CR roster have been representative? > Would the PRR have made the same choices regarding > motors? What about corridor services? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:03:00 EST From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Buffalo line questions Greetings Frank, Sounds like some of your conclusions are very similar to some of my own. Much as I admire the Main Line, my modeling time and resources are a little on the "lite' side for that much railroading. I always thought the old Northern Central route in the area you're thinking of would be more up my alley. Beautiful country and plenty enough railroading for solo or small crew operation. (I like the Delaware Ave idea as well, having spent some time snooping around there as a kid. The El could get me from Fishtown in Kensington to nearby 2nd Street in no time). As regards the Buffalo line's passenger service, circa 1960, there were still a couple of very appealing trains running, not to mention the Susquehannock running from Williamsport to Harrisburg and becoming something of a long-distance commuter train to 30th Street from there. The Baltimore-Buffalo day train was the Buffalo Day Express westward and Baltimore Day Express eastward. There were Philley/New York connections at Harrisburg. The train was heavy on headend traffic and carried two or more coachs and a parlor/cafe or parlor/cafe/coach. It usually hit Williamsport shortly after lucntime heading north and toward 4 pm heading south. The night trains were the combined Dominion Express for Buffalo and Northern Express (eastward)or Southern Express to and from Erie. They split at Emporium, and were largely Washington trains but also carried cars for Philley and New York. In the territory you're interested in these trains would be running about three sleepers and three coachs plus heade Hope this offers a bit of info to begin with. Please feel free to ask for further details, as I can check a 1960 Guide easy enough later. Perhaps someone else has an offcial consist book handy to give further details. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:20:20 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] IF the PRR were still around Gregg, Steam's greatest asset was performance at high speed. The fact that diesels were invariably used in passenger service first was a triumph of marketing over operations! Technically the best mix would have steam on the Broadway at 100 MPH+ and GPs on the coal drags at 15 MPH. Therefore you can dream of a 12 hr Broadway behind T3s or the FedEx ltd behind Q5s, but I suspect the H15 would never have happened. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Norm:- > > It's an interesting thought, but so many factors would have been involved > that almost anything could have happened. The conditions that led to the > merger and demise of the PRR began a long time before 1968, 1976, or 1999 so > that the changes that would have left PRR intact might have also > significantly altered what type of motive power a PRR would have in 2002. > > I would prefer to speculate on what would have happened if the T1 and Q2 had > beaten the living sh** out of anything General Motors could field! Or how > about a PRR with GG2's and DD3's on the main lines and H15's on the > branches? > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:02 AM > Subject: [PRR] IF the PRR were still around > > > Any comments regarding motive power if the PRR was still > > around? Would the CR roster have been representative? > > Would the PRR have made the same choices regarding > > motors? What about corridor services? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 21 Mar 2002 12:06:33 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] Re: Christmas display photo Reply to: Re: Christmas display photo I believe this is the train concourse (not the rotunda) of Cincinnati Union Terminal. -- Doug Drew >"Will" >wrote: >Lady sent me this pic and is trying to determine where this station is.... > http://www.bluemoon.net/~alcoman/temp/NYCTerminal56.jpg... Obviously a >Christmas display.... might not even be an NYC station... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:00:18 -0500 (EST) From: Will Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Christmas display photo Gents... Got my answer... It is the concourse of the Gare Centrale in Montreal PQ, Canada.... Here is a 1996 shot of the same station.... http://montreal.cityvu.com/visions/vmtl2408.jpg Thanks for taking the time to look at it and Mods...thanks for letting the list take a look at it as well. On 21 Mar 2002, Doug Drew wrote: > Reply to: Re: Christmas display photo >I believe this is the train concourse (not the rotunda) of Cincinnati Union Terminal. > >-- Doug Drew > >>"Will" >>wrote: > >>Lady sent me this pic and is trying to determine where this station is.... > >> http://www.bluemoon.net/~alcoman/temp/NYCTerminal56.jpg... Obviously a >>Christmas display.... might not even be an NYC station... > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > Will Semanchuk-Enser Blue Moon General Manager alcoman@bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp. V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] IF the PRR were still around Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:57:09 -0500 Gregg- You are correct about the PRR conditions falling apart long before its demise. January 30, 1905- President Theodore Roosevelt victoriously pursuaded members of the Philadelphia Union League Club to support his initiative to put railroad rates under the regulatory umbrella of the Interstate Commerce Commission(Hepburn Act of 1906). For 75 years, gov't regulations crippled the American railroads, robbing them of capital, draining competativeness with other transportation modes, and promoting the combustion engine, the pneumatic tire, and the paved road(Stanley Crane). If the PRR were here today, they definitely would have had to abandon many branchlines for truck service. They definitely would have the unit trailer/autorack/double stack trains in there favor. Thankfully Jimmy Carter signed the Staggers Rail Act October, 1980. We are now seeing the turn-around of an industry that has had its hands tied for 75 years. Greg Vlassopoulos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Mahlkov" To: ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] IF the PRR were still around > Norm:- > > It's an interesting thought, but so many factors would have been involved > that almost anything could have happened. The conditions that led to the > merger and demise of the PRR began a long time before 1968, 1976, or 1999 so > that the changes that would have left PRR intact might have also > significantly altered what type of motive power a PRR would have in 2002. > > I would prefer to speculate on what would have happened if the T1 and Q2 had > beaten the living sh** out of anything General Motors could field! Or how > about a PRR with GG2's and DD3's on the main lines and H15's on the > branches? > > Gregg Mahlkov > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:02 AM > Subject: [PRR] IF the PRR were still around > > > > Any comments regarding motive power if the PRR was still > > around? Would the CR roster have been representative? > > Would the PRR have made the same choices regarding > > motors? What about corridor services? > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:21:36 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Sash window color From: John Sheets In a PRR Stone block station (dark grey in color) what would be appropriate color for wooden sash windows, seems I remember a number of variants. TIA John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:53:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] IF the PRR were still around Hello List, I just had this conversation a couple of days ago with some friends. Actually, the topic was if the Pennsy was still here,would the Catenary still be up. None of us could come up with a good conclusion. We got stuck on "would the PRR sell or keep the NEC" And also "could the PRR survive with all the industries drying up." One thing is for sure, the PRR would have to do some major cutbacks,layoffs, and sell or abandon lots of trackage to make it to the year 2000. At one time the PRR did think of taking down the wires in the east but I don't know if it was just for the freight lines. I"M GLAD THEY DIDN"T DO THAT!!!! PRR had fallen to her knees by the 1960s. Who knows what a PRR-N&W merger may have produced. Or a NYC-Chessie for that matter. What if Amtrak was never formed? PRR SD80MACs at Horseshoe. I could see that. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Fred123R@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:40:27 EST Subject: [PRR] Sanborn Maps/Williamsport --part1_152.adf2ff1.29cc01ab_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sanborn Maps are on microfilm in the maps room at the PSU library in State College. Go to their website for phone info. They claim to have every town in the state on microfilm. I copied all of the relevant pages for the PRR for Williamsport. The cost was $.10/page(I think). You don't need to take a bunch of dimes, you can buy a copy card at the library. The microfilm is black and white, not color like the original maps. The Williamsport Historical Society and Museum has the actual original Sanborn book for Williamsport. I have looked at it; it does have color. However, it is old and very large, so you cannot copy it, but you may be able to photograph some pages. You need to call the curator for an appointment to look at it. I would imagine that other counties/town museums would have them for their area as well. I cut and pasted my maps onto larger poster board. I can now lay out the entire Williamsport area for the PRR like a giant puzzle. It takes up roughly a 10' by 15' area when all of the individual boards are laid out. It is incredibly helpful to see how things used to be. Combined with the list of sidings and some Putsee Vannucci photos, I have a nice resource for Williamsport. --part1_152.adf2ff1.29cc01ab_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sanborn Maps are on microfilm in the maps room at the PSU library in State College.  Go to their website for phone info.  They claim to have every town in the state on microfilm.  I copied all of the relevant pages for the PRR for Williamsport.  The cost was $.10/page(I think).  You don't need to take a bunch of dimes, you can buy a copy card at the library.  The microfilm is black and white, not color like the original maps.  The Williamsport Historical Society and Museum has the actual original Sanborn book for Williamsport.  I have looked at it; it does have color.  However, it is old and very large, so you cannot copy it, but you may be able to photograph some pages.  You need to call the curator for an appointment to look at it.  I would imagine that other counties/town museums would have them for their area as well.  

I cut and pasted my maps onto larger poster board.  I can now lay out the entire Williamsport area for the PRR like a giant puzzle.  It takes up roughly a 10' by 15' area when all of the individual boards are laid out.  It is incredibly helpful to see how things used to be.  Combined with the list of sidings and some Putsee Vannucci photos, I have a nice resource for Williamsport. --part1_152.adf2ff1.29cc01ab_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] test waste of bandwidth Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:27:47 -0500 Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS http://www.wsbcos.com.trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] Howdy all! Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:42:28 -0500 Howdy All and Jerry: Sorry again for the waste of bandwidth, But a double check of server verification and host verification never hurts. Jerry - round trip time is about 10 minutes. Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS http://www.wsbcos.com.trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:46:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Timken 4 Aces Lists, I recently sold some construction photos on eBay of the famous 4 Aces Loco that was built for Timken. In my email correspondence to the winning bidder he mentions that the 4-8-4 was demonstrated on the Pennsy. Anyone have specific details of this? Which Divisions, etc. I will try to learn more from my bidder who is/was? an employee of Timken. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Laurie Cooper" Subject: Re: [PRR] MP54 Info Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:19:57 -0800 -----Original Message----- From: Joe hildenbrand To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 10:11 PM Subject: [PRR] MP54 Info >What kind of throttle does it have. I looked at the >decayed MP54 at Strasburg, it looked like it had only >4 or 5 notches. Is this true, or did it have an 8 >notch throttle? And was the direction control a >separate device, or did it have it's own dedicated >control. I'm pretty sure the controller was almost the same as on the current Silverliners. If so, 4 or 5 notches sounds about right. Top position would be idle, to the right would be forward, to the left would be reverse. Deadman lever was needed when in the top idle position, as the controller was spring loaded to return to this position. First position either direction would also be idle, but didn't require the deadman lever. > >I know most had cab signals and a dead-mans switch >(Foot Pedal), did any have an alerter like the current >Silverliners have? > I'll have to check about the alerter, but I'd guess they had an alerter. I vaguely recall a very shrill whistle. >Does anybody have a sound recording. The default >sounds that will be used for the MP54 in the simulator >will be the Acela sounds, which is mostly a blower >sound, not the heavy gear grinding sound the MP54 >made. > Sorry, no recordings, but I remember the grinding sound you refer to. Then when the engineer put the controller in idle, everything went completely silent. No blowers, no air conditioning, nothing but clickety-clack and maybe the air compressor. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:46:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Timken 4 Aces Lists, I recently sold some construction photos on eBay of the famous 4 Aces Loco that was built for Timken. In my email correspondence to the winning bidder he mentions that the 4-8-4 was demonstrated on the Pennsy. Anyone have specific details of this? Which Divisions, etc. I will try to learn more from my bidder who is/was? an employee of Timken. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Find the Best Web Designers & Developers at Elance Save Time & Money Post your Project for FREE http://us.click.yahoo.com/nZNCOD/S.zDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Keith Pomroy" Subject: [PRR] If the PRR were still around Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:03:28 -0500 Fellow Listers, My favorite scenario regarding PRR survival in terms of what actually could have happened (as opposed to what I would like to have seen happen--T3s, GG2s etc.) is that after Perlman's NYC walked away from the merger in 1959 it was successful in bidding for the B&O alongside of C&O, forming a three-way system. (The roads would have remained quasi-independent for awhile.) Then, the PRR would have had no choice but to hang on to its N&W stock. Gradually, the various roads (Wabash, DT&I, etc.) in which PRR had an interest would have been integrated into the system. The EL/D&H/B&M lineup might have come in sometime in the 1970s or 1980s. The big problem there was all that ancient Erie debt. The bankruptcies got rid of most of that. On the passenger side, I think some sort of political pressure for the NEC would have continued to build (it's an essential part of the regional economy), leading to catenary retention. This involves the question about what to do with the New Haven, which had gone bankrupt in 1961, but which was (and is) an integral part of the NEC. I'm not sure that the Pennsy would have removed through freight the way Conrail did, but I do see the Reading getting some nice income from the PRR's runthroughs to the Lehigh Valley (which PRR owned) at Allentown. In the end, I see the PRR/N&W/SOU system evolving by 2000 and the NYC/B&O/Reading/Western Maryland/C&O system emerging. Today's reality might have been the endgame in any case. As for Amtrak, I think that had the decline of passenger service been less dramatic in the 1960s, the evolution of regionally supported corridor services would have been quicker and the long-distance limited been relegated to the history books by about 1980. As it is, Amtrak has enabled the survival (for now) of the long-distance all-stops quasi-local and has drawn away resources from the corridor projects (maybe!?). ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:13:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Howdy all! From: Jerry Britton On 3/21/02 11:42 PM, Wayne S. Betty at (cos@mycyberlink.net) wrote: > But a double check of server verification and host verification never hurts. > Jerry - round trip time is about 10 minutes. > Can be less than that. My mail server receives mail for the listserv. The listserv checks for mail every five minutes. If it receives mail it processes it and sends mail out immediately. So the round trip can be anywhere from 1-10 minutes or so. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:38:31 -0500 From: Keith B Thompson Subject: Re: [PRR] MP54 Info > > Did they have a bell? A model I have has a bell mounted on the uderside, just in- front of the truck on the A end (end with panthograph). ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] Lancaster Bridges Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:39:33 -0500 I know it's an old message, but I've been saving it till I got back While I have not seen any pictures of the bridge while it had an active rail line over it, how about the bridge on Arch Street between Mulberry and Old Harrisburg Ave. The bridge is one block south of Old Harrisburg Pike. The ROW is sort of still there, but much of the area has been rebuilt. Just a little history on the Old Main, which went through downtown Lancaster. The main line went through several narrow cuts on the west side of the city. As this area grew, mostly industry type, feeder lines and sidings sort of grew everywhere. You can see the resultant setup in the map on page 151 of Triumph II. The bridge was replaced years ago when the old main - now what was left of Quarryville Branch was abandoned - the branch actually used the Old Main ROW till it intersected with Water Street in back of the old Ready Mix Concrete plant at the corner of Prince and Walnut Streets (the area is now a parking lot). Anyway the plate steel bridge was about two lanes for rubber tired things and then the RR all passing over the ROW of the Old Main. The ROW from the Old Harrisburg Pike - on the other side of the street from what is today the Dillerville Yard Office of NS. You can take a nice walk up the green way and check out the way the buildings where built around the railroad that was running at an angle through this part of the city. You can see what is left of the Old Main cuts in the first part of the walk way - the Old Main stays level as the surrounding landscape ramps up. The new bridge is a hundred feet or so down the walkway. On a related note: as reported earlier - Snavely's Lumber has torn out the rails in their yard. The tracks in the street are still in place. On the Reading crossing over the PRR - I'm not sure where this would have been - most of the Reading track was between the Armstrong plant and the Old Main. A friend has an old map of the east side of Lancaster @ the turn of the century, I've been looking for the west side of the map for years. Found a couple of the layout back in the early 1800's but not the middle of the year. Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS http://www.wsbcos.com.trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:14:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MP54 Info The "ping-pongs" on the Long Island Rail Road (were they much different from the PRR MP54's?) had a very shrill whistle in the cab for the automatic speed control alerter. It was so loud and piercing that I wonder if it would be considered hazardous to the engineman's hearing under today's OSHA rules. I believe the ASC was installed on the LIRR in the MP54s (and the double-deckers of course) after the disastrous wrecks at Richmond Hill and Rockville Centre in 1950 or 1951. I suspect the ASC cab indicators may have been different in their aspects on PRR and LIRR; as I recall, the "clear track" indication on LIRR consisted of the letters "MAS" (Maximum Allowable Speed), whereas on PRR could it have been a position-light "Clear" aspect? But the systems were no doubt essentially the same, for common use in the Penn Station area. One thing that sticks in my memory was the (external) air whistle, e.g. used for blowing for crossings. On the LIRR these whistles were amazing, capable of incredible shifts in pitch, like a singer whose voice has suddenly cracked! Were the units on the PRR the same? The many grade crossings in the LIRR electrified zone, at least in the 1950s and early 60s before many were eliminated, put these whistles into frequent use. (At least in the NY area, the suburban zone on the PRR had not so many grade crossings, so you wouldn't hear the whistles as much.) Are there any recordings of these whistles available? John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:44:06 -0500 From: Rick Miskell Subject: [PRR] Maps Listers: There have been several threads on the Sanborn maps recently, but they aren't the only source for good map references. If you are interested in the Pittsburgh area (for example) try this: http://digital.library.pitt.edu/maps/browse.html The maps can be enlarged for viewing and printed/pasted up into what areas interest you for a customized resource. Since my primary interest is in the Ft Wayne and Downtown/Strip District these have been great. I would imagine most major metropolitan areas have similiar resources available. (Haven't checked though) Rick Miskell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Timken 4 Aces Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:59:57 +0000 Gary: I think it was on the Middle Division in the early 1930's. There is a picture that was taken of this and it was recently published. It was either in the Keystone or Trains Magazine (in the summer of 2000, there were two articles on the evolving technology of steam locomotive construction from 1890 to 1940. I think that the photo appeared in this 2-part article. Ted Andrews >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) >To: PRR@yahoogroups.com >CC: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] Timken 4 Aces >Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:46:47 -0500 (EST) > >Lists, > > I recently sold some construction photos on eBay of the famous 4 >Aces Loco that was built for Timken. In my email correspondence to the >winning bidder he mentions that the 4-8-4 was demonstrated on the >Pennsy. Anyone have specific details of this? Which Divisions, etc. I >will try to learn more from my bidder who is/was? an employee of Timken. >Thanks, Gary > > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art >Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > >PRR Loco Pics: >http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > >& > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html >and...... > >PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:04:46 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Sanborn Maps/Williamsport --On Thursday, March 21, 2002 22:40 +0000 Fred123R@aol.com wrote: > Sanborn Maps are on microfilm in the maps room at the PSU library in > State College. Go to their website for phone info. They claim to have > every town in the state on microfilm. I copied all of the relevant pages > for the PRR for Williamsport. The cost was $.10/page(I think). You > don't need to take a bunch of dimes, you can buy a copy card at the > library. The microfilm is black and white, not color like the original > maps. Hunt Library at Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh also has the complete set of PA Sanborns on microfilm. Same deal: purchase a copy card at the circulation desk on the first floor. Microfilm files are on the third floor (periodicals). The periodical librarians will assist you with the finding aid and the microform copy machines. Copies are $.20 ea. A word of caution on Sanborn maps: Track plans shown on sanborn maps are not necessarily exactly correct. The maps of the East Broad Top RR facilities at Rockhill, PA, for example, show a 7-stall roundhouse, while photographic evidence from the same period confirms it had only 6 stalls. A small glitch in the grand scheme of RR history, but a major one on a railroad with a 32-mile main line. Vagel Keller CMU, Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] E33's Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:57:26 +0000 Apparently Bachman is going to make an E33 due later in the year as part of the spectrum series. If the running gear for an E33 will be made could an E44 be down the road? There will be five paint schemes as follows: 82402 Virginian 82403 Norfolk and Western 82404 New Haven 82405 Penn Central 82406 Conrail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:02:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] E33's From: Jerry Britton On 3/22/02 2:57 PM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > Apparently Bachman is going to make an E33 due later in > the year as part of the spectrum series. If the running > gear for an E33 will be made could an E44 be down the > road? There will be five paint schemes as follows: > 82402 Virginian > 82403 Norfolk and Western > 82404 New Haven > 82405 Penn Central > 82406 Conrail > Let's hope! The E-33 project was announced mid last year. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:59:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MP54 Info From: aurora7@juno.com LIRR MP-54's had two outside whistles. One was the high-pitched screeching tube that had a diameter of about 1.5" and a length of about 15". The other was a fatter whistle made by Crosby Steam Cage Company. It measured about 4" diameter and stood about 12" long. I have one of these in my home. These latter whistles made a dull, low, "poooooooot" sound. Richard Glueck "Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana" - Groucho ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:09:17 -0500 Hi All, I have just finished printing the second roll of 5 of the surviving I-1sa # 4483 that are generously on loan to me by a fellow list member. These rolls are more of a detailed photo "study" shot from every conceivable angle shot over the past 5 years. I have printed over 100 8 x 10 photos. (Not all of them turn out the first time.) I mean NO disrespect to the list members who may be spending their spare time working on this loco. However, it became very clear to me very quickly that this surviving masterpiece needs to be moved out of the elements of the Buffalo winters NOW while there is still something left of it. When the compressor has spots rusted through, it should be very evident as to the fragility of this piece. I have not heard of any rich contributor who has offered to send this to a Steamtown type facility. No amount of spray Rustoleum, wire brushing and elbow grease will EVER stabilize the rust this engine is experiencing. Most don't know that the tender connected to it is just a shell. There is no coal bunker or tender deck. No one can perform this type of heavy restoration without a major fabrication shop. What or who is stopping the 4483 from being moved to either a restoration facility, covered storage, or at least a museum in a more populated area? This outta keep the lists buzzing for a few days. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JM_CASSATT_JR@webtv.net (Jim Cassatt,Jr) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 06:40:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Re: Lancaster Bridges If you are interested in seeing what the right -of-way looked like in 1864, you can purchase a reproduction of "Bridgens' 1864 Atlas of Lancaster County" from the Lancaster County Historical Society. Jim Cassatt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:09:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] MP=I-1sa # 4483 Hi All, I have just finished printing the second roll of 5 of the surviving I-1sa # 4483 that are generously on loan to me by a fellow list member. These rolls are more of a detailed photo "study" shot from every conceivable angle shot over the past 5 years. I have printed over 100 8 x 10 photos. (Not all of them turn out the first time.) I mean NO disrespect to the list members who may be spending their spare time working on this loco. However, it became very clear to me very quickly that this surviving masterpiece needs to be moved out of the elements of the Buffalo winters NOW while there is still something left of it. When the compressor has spots rusted through, it should be very evident as to the fragility of this piece. I have not heard of any rich contributor who has offered to send this to a Steamtown type facility. No amount of spray Rustoleum, wire brushing and elbow grease will EVER stabilize the rust this engine is experiencing. Most don't know that the tender connected to it is just a shell. There is no coal bunker or tender deck. No one can perform this type of heavy restoration without a major fabrication shop. What or who is stopping the 4483 from being moved to either a restoration facility, covered storage, or at least a museum in a more populated area? This outta keep the lists buzzing for a few days. Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere Full setup in 2 minutes! - Free Download http://us.click.yahoo.com/wBUyOD/vakDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:28:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 From: aurora7@juno.com At the very least, the group of NY railfans who own her should look at moving her back into storage at the RMofPa for coverage, provided they retain ownership. If a contractual agreement could be hammered out, it would show good faith between the two groups and respect for the antique value of the I-1. Should the NY group ever get the funds in place to restore her to running shape, they could pull the loco out for that purpose, otherwise, she's at home WHERE SHE BELONGS! At lest she'll be covered, greased, painted, and kept from vandals. The Museum could well afford to pay for the move to Strasburg, if only to assure the security of the big Decapod. My opinion. Others are welcome to express differing wrong opinions. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana" - Groucho ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: SUVCWORR@aol.com From: RichofScot@aol.com Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:50:37 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 Richard and list; The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania which owns the RMofPA, offered to buy or trade anther locomotive to the group in New York in exchange for the I-1. They refused to even discuss such a transaction. Pennsylvania Museum and Historical Commission has expressly refused to accept items "on loan" and then assume responsibility for the well being of those items. Further, there is limited indoor space at the museum. Any locomotive indoors would need to be refurbished cosmetically at least so it could be on static display. Without clear ownership, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is not going to expend taxpayer dollars to do such work. It is obvious that the New York group is well in over their heads with this project. The right thing to do is get this locomotive to some entity which can restore it to a static display status and maintain it. The latter is just my opinion. Rich Orr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere It's Easy. It's Fast. - Free Download http://us.click.yahoo.com/2njxPB/zakDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:50:37 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 --part1_138.b7a4a08.29cdf03d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard and list; The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania which owns the RMofPA, offered to buy or trade anther locomotive to the group in New York in exchange for the I-1. They refused to even discuss such a transaction. Pennsylvania Museum and Historical Commission has expressly refused to accept items "on loan" and then assume responsibility for the well being of those items. Further, there is limited indoor space at the museum. Any locomotive indoors would need to be refurbished cosmetically at least so it could be on static display. Without clear ownership, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is not going to expend taxpayer dollars to do such work. It is obvious that the New York group is well in over their heads with this project. The right thing to do is get this locomotive to some entity which can restore it to a static display status and maintain it. The latter is just my opinion. Rich Orr --part1_138.b7a4a08.29cdf03d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard and list;

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania which owns the RMofPA, offered to buy or trade anther locomotive to the group in New York in exchange for the I-1.  They refused to even discuss such a transaction.  Pennsylvania Museum and Historical Commission has expressly refused to accept items "on loan" and then assume responsibility for the well being of those items.  Further, there is limited indoor space at the museum.  Any locomotive indoors would need to be refurbished cosmetically at least so it could be on static display.  Without clear ownership, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is not going to expend taxpayer dollars to do such work.

It is obvious that the New York group is well in over their heads with this project.  The right thing to do is get this locomotive to some entity which can restore it to a static display status and maintain it.

The latter is just my opinion.

Rich Orr --part1_138.b7a4a08.29cdf03d_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:55:38 -0500 Bill- >From my understanding, when the locomotives were initially stored at Northumberland before going to the PA RR museum, The I-1sa went onto its present resting place, in Hamburg New York after being on static display at the Westinghouse Plant. Perfect weather for an archival masterpiece of engineering, grunting through harsh northern New York winters! I hope someone snapped photos of the locomotive when they recently got nailed with over 7 feet of snow (4 feet in 1 storm). Snow up to its cab entrance. Hopefully a buzz will arise and the locomotive will reach its destination in either the RR museum of PA or Steamtown. A quality facility needs to care to its restoration-cosmetically, and preserve railroad/PRR/engineering history. Greg Vlassopoulos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "PRR Talk" ; "PRR Modeling" ; "PRR Fax" Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 1:09 AM Subject: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 > Hi All, > > I have just finished printing the second roll of 5 of the surviving I-1sa # > 4483 that are generously on loan to me by a fellow list member. These rolls > are more of a detailed photo "study" shot from every conceivable angle shot > over the past 5 years. I have printed over 100 8 x 10 photos. (Not all of > them turn out the first time.) > > I mean NO disrespect to the list members who may be spending their spare > time working on this loco. However, it became very clear to me very quickly > that this surviving masterpiece needs to be moved out of the elements of the > Buffalo winters NOW while there is still something left of it. When the > compressor has spots rusted through, it should be very evident as to the > fragility of this piece. I have not heard of any rich contributor who has > offered to send this to a Steamtown type facility. No amount of spray > Rustoleum, wire brushing and elbow grease will EVER stabilize the rust this > engine is experiencing. Most don't know that the tender connected to it is > just a shell. There is no coal bunker or tender deck. No one can perform > this type of heavy restoration without a major fabrication shop. > > What or who is stopping the 4483 from being moved to either a restoration > facility, covered storage, or at least a museum in a more populated area? > This outta keep the lists buzzing for a few days. > > Thanks > Bill > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:55:39 -0500 When I sent an email to the RRMoP sometime ago about 4483, they sent me photo copies of pictures of her and the letter they sent to Hamburg and Hamburg's reply about acquiring the engine. I think, much like a lot of groups, this group seems to be of the mind that it is their engine (which it is) and they are going to keep it no matter what is in the best interest of the preservation of the engine. It would be very disappointing to lose this engine, because of some short sightedness. Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: [PRR] Site access address Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:47:02 -0500 List, Recently there were available Pennsy through freight schedules listed here. They were available (the address I have)www.randsrailstuff.net. Today I was not able to access the site. New address? , etc??? Can someone help? Thanks Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: [PRR] I-1 #4483 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:02:23 -0600 What is the story behind how the NY group got possession of this locomotive? Did not anyone from the RR Museum of Pa. realize the value of it to the collection at or before the time the NY group obtained it? And when I visited the locomotive when it was located in front of the Westinghouse plant, a heavyweight business car, The Pittsburgher, was positioned behind the locomotive's tender. What happened to the business car? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:09:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1 #4483 --part1_112.ea2f440.29ce490d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The business car was the Ohio. It was gutted inside. I think the former "PITTSBURGHER" survives in private hands but unknown where. Pat McKinney --part1_112.ea2f440.29ce490d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The business car was the Ohio. It was gutted inside. I think the former "PITTSBURGHER" survives in private hands but unknown where.

Pat McKinney --part1_112.ea2f440.29ce490d_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:34:03 -0600 From: Randy Williamson Subject: Re: [PRR] Site access address http://www.randsrailstuff.net/PennsylvaniaRailroadFreightSchedules/HOME.htm Still alive and kicking. Unfortunately due to my wife's losing battle with cancer I have not been able to do any updates to the site. Randy At 01:47 PM 3/23/2002 -0500, S J Lash wrote: >List, Recently there were available Pennsy through freight schedules listed >here. They were available (the address I have)www.randsrailstuff.net. >Today I was not able to access the site. New address? , etc??? Can >someone help? Thanks Jim > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:09:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] E33's I was at the East Coast Hobby Show today in the Fort Washington Expo and I talk to the folks at Bachmann and they said that the E33 will be out in November 2002. No pictures of the model, only photos of the VGN E33s. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:54:26 -0500 From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Site access address On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:34:03PM -0600, Randy Williamson wrote: > http://www.randsrailstuff.net/PennsylvaniaRailroadFreightSchedules/HOME.htm > > Still alive and kicking. Unfortunately due to my wife's losing battle with > cancer I have not been able to do any updates to the site. > > Randy > > > At 01:47 PM 3/23/2002 -0500, S J Lash wrote: > >List, Recently there were available Pennsy through freight schedules listed > >here. They were available (the address I have)www.randsrailstuff.net. > >Today I was not able to access the site. New address? , etc??? Can > >someone help? Thanks Jim Jim, please also visit http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/ ... a full set of 1959-1960 freight schedules. This is a more complete list than the "Arranged Freight Schedules" that is often available in booklet form. My source for transcription is a 3-inch 3 ring binder overstuffed with pages. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:07:45 EST Subject: [PRR] New PRR decals While at the East Coast Hobby show today I visited the Micro Scale booth and saw the new PRR decals they will have available soon. First off the 87-21 set the modern diesel set is now in a more buff color than the previous yellow. It also has the radio equipped decals included. I also saw samples of the new boxcar decal covering most 40' and 50' classes in the 1954-1960 time period. This will be 8 different sets. They will also have miscellaneous markings in the 1954-1968 time period. A new cabin car set will cover the 1927-1968 period. Includes radio equipped decals and the black lettering for the focal orange cars. With Champ going away in two years at least PRR modelers will have another source for decals. ---------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR decals Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:21:25 -0500 Ken- Jim Kelly spoke with Microscale and is forwarding them a drift card for the proper Yellow Buff lettering color. They seemed to be interested in receiving information to do the decals properly. Well see what comes out of it. The freight locomotives had buff and passengers engines had gold leaf. I've seem photos of freight engines well into the 50's with buff lettering. Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 8:07 PM Subject: [PRR] New PRR decals > While at the East Coast Hobby show today I visited the Micro Scale booth and > saw the new PRR decals they will have available soon. First off the 87-21 set > the modern diesel set is now in a more buff color than the previous yellow. > It also has the radio equipped decals included. I also saw samples of the new > boxcar decal covering most 40' and 50' classes in the 1954-1960 time period. > This will be 8 different sets. They will also have miscellaneous markings in > the 1954-1968 time period. A new cabin car set will cover the 1927-1968 > period. Includes radio equipped decals and the black lettering for the focal > orange cars. With Champ going away in two years at least PRR modelers will > have another source for decals. ---------------- Ken McCorry > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:51:55 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR decals Bill the new diesel set is the more modern set an upgraded 87-21. It has no stripes for any of the cab units. It's designed for the hood units and post 66 cab repaints. The cabin car set I saw looked done. They said the sets would be released starting this month. All the sets listed were in existance at the show on display which means they shouldn't be too far in the future. -------- Ken ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR decals Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:31:17 -0500 Ken- Microscale catelog #87-21 is for Diesel - GP7, GP9, hood units. In reference to steam locomotives, cat. #87-1166 is deluxe lettering and #87-66 is steam locomotive gold lettering. They are going to look into making a more buff yellow lettering for steam locomotives after they receive the drift card sample. The above numbers are for HO scale. If interested, I have a complete listing off all Microscale products on an excel spreadsheet. Hopefully- they will make the buff yellow lettering for more accurate freight locomotive decals. Greg Vlassopoulos ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR decals > Bill the new diesel set is the more modern set an upgraded 87-21. It has no > stripes for any of the cab units. It's designed for the hood units and post > 66 cab repaints. The cabin car set I saw looked done. They said the sets > would be released starting this month. All the sets listed were in existance > at the show on display which means they shouldn't be too far in the future. > -------- Ken > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hanel29@att.net Subject: [PRR] Ore Cars Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 05:39:13 +0000 Would appreciate guidance to where I can find information (history/types/photos/lettering diagrams) on the different ore cars used by the PRR over the years. Many thanks, HANK ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:04:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR decals I also got to talk with the folks at Microscale today. There are more PRR decals coming. They did say that they are working on the PRR TrucTrain decals. And finally PRR's "Radio" decals are now a lot easier to get. The "PRR Cabin Car" sheet also has the "radio" decals. 10 different PRR decals sheet are do to be released soon with more to come. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:19:02 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR decals In a message dated 3/25/02 12:11:04 AM Central Standard Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: << They did say that they are working on the PRR TrucTrain decals. >> I have one ancient set of someone's decals for a PRR trailer (Pennsylvania on the diagonal). Would love to see a revival of those. I have seen decorated versions of the trailers in most scales, but as usual in the incorrect tuscan instead of correct red body color, so decals would be helpful. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:38:03 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3099890283_71093_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rich et al. When I was at Hamburg photographing 4483, I had this same discussion. 4483 sits behind the former station which is now a hobby shop. The owner (then - it has changed hands) was a member of the Western New York society. He told me they had offered to trade 4483 for another loco at the RMofPa (there was a specific engine he said they wanted, but I forget which one it was) and was told no deal. Last time I was there, summer 2000, I visited with a fellow who was undoing the work of vandals who had splattered green paint all over the tender. He said there were plans to move 4483 indoors. Rick Siller, do you know if 4483 is still outside? By the way, the guys at Hamburg are doing what they can to keep the engine and tender from rusting away. New cab walls were fabricated. The engine and tender were painted gloss black and lettered when I last visited. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- From: SUVCWORR@aol.com To: aurora7@juno.com, billlane@snip.net Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com, PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com, PRR@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 Date: Sat, 23 Mar, 2002, 8:50 Richard and list; The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania which owns the RMofPA, offered to buy or trade anther locomotive to the group in New York in exchange for the I-1. They refused to even discuss such a transaction. Pennsylvania Museum and Historical Commission has expressly refused to accept items "on loan" and then assume responsibility for the well being of those items. Further, there is limited indoor space at the museum. Any locomotive indoors would need to be refurbished cosmetically at least so it could be on static display. Without clear ownership, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is not going to expend taxpayer dollars to do such work. It is obvious that the New York group is well in over their heads with this project. The right thing to do is get this locomotive to some entity which can restore it to a static display status and maintain it. The latter is just my opinion. Rich Orr --MS_Mac_OE_3099890283_71093_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 Rich et al.

When I was at Hamburg photographing 4483, I had this same discussion.  = ;4483 sits behind the former station which is now a hobby shop.  The ow= ner (then - it has changed hands) was a member of the Western New York socie= ty.  He told me they had offered to trade 4483 for another loco at the = RMofPa (there was a specific engine he said they wanted, but I forget which = one it was) and was told no deal.   Last time I was there, summer = 2000, I visited with a fellow who was undoing the work of vandals who had sp= lattered green paint all over the tender.  He said there were plans to = move 4483 indoors.  Rick Siller, do you know if 4483 is still outside?<= BR>
By the way, the guys at Hamburg are doing what they can to keep the engine = and tender from rusting away.  New cab walls were fabricated.  The= engine and tender were painted gloss black and lettered when I last visited= .  


Don Harper
Texas A&M Marine Lab
5007 Avenue U
Galveston, TX  77551
409/740-4540


----------
From: SUVCWORR@aol.com
To: aurora7@juno.com, billlane@snip.net
Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com, PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com, PRR@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483
Date: Sat, 23 Mar, 2002, 8:50


Richard and list;

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania which owns the RMofPA, offered to buy or t= rade anther locomotive to the group in New York in exchange for the I-1. &nb= sp;They refused to even discuss such a transaction.  Pennsylvania Museu= m and Historical Commission has expressly refused to accept items "on l= oan" and then assume responsibility for the well being of those items. =  Further, there is limited indoor space at the museum.  Any locomo= tive indoors would need to be refurbished cosmetically at least so it could = be on static display.  Without clear ownership, the Commonwealth of Pen= nsylvania is not going to expend taxpayer dollars to do such work.

It is obvious that the New York group is well in over their heads with this= project.  The right thing to do is get this locomotive to some entity = which can restore it to a static display status and maintain it.

The latter is just my opinion.

Rich Orr
--MS_Mac_OE_3099890283_71093_MIME_Part-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: [PRR] 911 story Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:29:11 -0500 Check out this story, it is very touching. Lew http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/usswinstonchurchill.htm Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Septic and Energy Systems Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:21:51 -0500 From: "cwhary" Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 > Dan, > > If memory serves me correctly, several years ago this subject came up and the request was to trade the I-1 for the Nickel Plate Berkshire which was on site at Strasburg museum. > > To bad the controlling powers of the I-1 can't see the harm they are doing not giving it to some organization that would bring it back to some state of repair. > > Charlie -- Charles E. Whary -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:49:06 -0500 If the Hamburg group truely wanted the Berkshire, that is a far cry from reality. They are definitely over their heads with the I-1, let alone an engine as large as the Berkshire. As sad as it may be, I have a feeling that by the time they decide to release the engine to an organization that has the resources and technology to restore the locomotive, it will be far past the point of repair. Hopefully the group can either put together a campaign to raise the funds to build a suitable structure to house the locomotive, or give it up for future generations to see, learn, and understand how technologically advanced the PRR was in its heyday. I am seeking detailed photos of the locomotive so I can build a Bowser model. Don, are your photos in digital format that you could email to me? It would save me the trip up to Hamburg. Greg Vlassopoulos gregv@netreach.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "cwhary" To: Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 > > Dan, > > > > If memory serves me correctly, several years ago this subject came up and the request was to trade the I-1 for the Nickel Plate Berkshire which was on site at Strasburg museum. > > > > To bad the controlling powers of the I-1 can't see the harm they are doing not giving it to some organization that would bring it back to some state of repair. > > > > Charlie > > > -- > Charles E. Whary > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:36:36 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Greg and all None of the photos are in digital format - - yet. We have a very good scanner here at the lab, and as soon as I get the photos back I will begin scanning them. don ---------- >From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." >To: , >Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 >Date: Mon, 25 Mar, 2002, 12:49 > > If the Hamburg group truely wanted the Berkshire, that is a far cry from > reality. They are definitely over their heads with the I-1, let alone an > engine as large as the Berkshire. As sad as it may be, I have a feeling > that by the time they decide to release the engine to an organization that > has the resources and technology to restore the locomotive, it will be far > past the point of repair. Hopefully the group can either put together a > campaign to raise the funds to build a suitable structure to house the > locomotive, or give it up for future generations to see, learn, and > understand how technologically advanced the PRR was in its heyday. > > I am seeking detailed photos of the locomotive so I can build a Bowser > model. Don, are your photos in digital format that you could email to me? > It would save me the trip up to Hamburg. > > Greg Vlassopoulos > gregv@netreach.net > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cwhary" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 12:21 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 > > >> > Dan, >> > >> > If memory serves me correctly, several years ago this subject came up > and the request was to trade the I-1 for the Nickel Plate Berkshire which > was on site at Strasburg museum. >> > >> > To bad the controlling powers of the I-1 can't see the harm they are > doing not giving it to some organization that would bring it back to some > state of repair. >> > >> > Charlie >> >> >> -- >> Charles E. Whary >> -- >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >> >> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:55:44 -0500 List, Can you say "dog in the manger"? Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "cwhary" To: Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 > > Dan, > > > > If memory serves me correctly, several years ago this subject came up and the request was to trade the I-1 for the Nickel Plate Berkshire which was on site at Strasburg museum. > > > > To bad the controlling powers of the I-1 can't see the harm they are doing not giving it to some organization that would bring it back to some state of repair. > > > > Charlie > > > -- > Charles E. Whary > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:08:25 -0500 (EST) From: Will Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 I think everyone who has an opinion on this should go to http://www.trainweb.org/wnyrhs/feedbackFrame1Source1.htm And fill out their feedback form with your views on 4483 That will get the word to the group quickly and efficiently. Regards On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. wrote: >If the Hamburg group truely wanted the Berkshire, that is a far cry from >reality. They are definitely over their heads with the I-1, let alone an >engine as large as the Berkshire. As sad as it may be, I have a feeling >that by the time they decide to release the engine to an organization that >has the resources and technology to restore the locomotive, it will be far >past the point of repair. Hopefully the group can either put together a >campaign to raise the funds to build a suitable structure to house the >locomotive, or give it up for future generations to see, learn, and >understand how technologically advanced the PRR was in its heyday. > >I am seeking detailed photos of the locomotive so I can build a Bowser >model. Don, are your photos in digital format that you could email to me? >It would save me the trip up to Hamburg. > >Greg Vlassopoulos >gregv@netreach.net > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "cwhary" >To: >Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 12:21 PM >Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 > > >> > Dan, >> > >> > If memory serves me correctly, several years ago this subject came up >and the request was to trade the I-1 for the Nickel Plate Berkshire which >was on site at Strasburg museum. >> > >> > To bad the controlling powers of the I-1 can't see the harm they are >doing not giving it to some organization that would bring it back to some >state of repair. >> > >> > Charlie >> >> >> -- >> Charles E. Whary >> -- >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >> >> > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > Will Semanchuk-Enser Blue Moon General Manager alcoman@bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp. V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:46:33 -0500 I recently learned that the Western New York Railroad Historical Society does have a 210f75A long haul 8-axle 16-wheel tender(with doghouse) to go with the I-1sa 4483. That is good to know. If anyone wants to see the locomotive restoration progress, check out- http://www.trainweb.org/wnyrhs/4483Frame1Source1.htm It doesn't seem to be too rusty. Let's hope a building gets built soon. Besides, I don't think their is enough vintage coaches around for this loco to pull if it were to be restored functionally. Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will" To: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Cc: ; Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 > > > I think everyone who has an opinion on this should go to > > http://www.trainweb.org/wnyrhs/feedbackFrame1Source1.htm > > And fill out their feedback form with your views on 4483 > > That will get the word to the group quickly and efficiently. > > Regards > > On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. wrote: > > >If the Hamburg group truely wanted the Berkshire, that is a far cry from > >reality. They are definitely over their heads with the I-1, let alone an > >engine as large as the Berkshire. As sad as it may be, I have a feeling > >that by the time they decide to release the engine to an organization that > >has the resources and technology to restore the locomotive, it will be far > >past the point of repair. Hopefully the group can either put together a > >campaign to raise the funds to build a suitable structure to house the > >locomotive, or give it up for future generations to see, learn, and > >understand how technologically advanced the PRR was in its heyday. > > > >I am seeking detailed photos of the locomotive so I can build a Bowser > >model. Don, are your photos in digital format that you could email to me? > >It would save me the trip up to Hamburg. > > > >Greg Vlassopoulos > >gregv@netreach.net > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "cwhary" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 12:21 PM > >Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1sa # 4483 > > > > > >> > Dan, > >> > > >> > If memory serves me correctly, several years ago this subject came up > >and the request was to trade the I-1 for the Nickel Plate Berkshire which > >was on site at Strasburg museum. > >> > > >> > To bad the controlling powers of the I-1 can't see the harm they are > >doing not giving it to some organization that would bring it back to some > >state of repair. > >> > > >> > Charlie > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Charles E. Whary > >> -- > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > >> > >> > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > Will Semanchuk-Enser Blue Moon General Manager > alcoman@bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp. > V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:10:56 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] RE: Ore Cars Hank, et al., As far as I know the PRR had three special car types specifically designed to haul ore. They were classes UB, G38 and G39. The class UB was a Lines West Car originally known as class GX There were 100 of them and were owned only by the PY&A (80) and the E&P (20). They were three trucked side-dump cars that lasted until about 1910. They were restricted to points west of Pittsburgh on account of their extreme width - 9'-10". There was a small piece on them in the Spring 1986 edition of "The Keystone." Ian Fischer will be talking on all classes of gons at the annual meeting in May and I'm sure he will hit upon these odd-balls. The official PRR lettering diagrams for the class G38 and G39 ore cars (a.k.a. jennies) are in the Middle Division's "PRR Compendium - PRR Freight Car Lettering Arrangements 1954-1968," and there are several photos in the PRR Color Guides 1, 2 and 3. Of course ore was also hauled in hoppers. As a matter of fact the class G38 and G39 ore jennies could only be sent to blast furnaces that were equipped with rotary dumpers as they were solid-bottom high-side gondolas. Of course the rotary dumpers could also handle hoppers. But again another restriction was the size of the rotary dumpers at some plants could only handle the shorter 2 pocket (AAR class HM) hoppers. That's one reason the PRR kept the old 2 pocket hoppers around until the end. Steel plants with only ore bridges had to receive ore in hoppers. This all had to be worked out at the ore docks before hand and some of this is (will be) spelled out in the E&P Book. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "TJ LInk" Subject: [PRR] Lens sets for Bowser N-5 & N-5c Cabin Cars Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:35:34 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1D44D.60E0CC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List: Can anyone direct me to a set of lenses for Bowser N-5 & N-5c = cabin cars? Does anyone even make these sets, as Bowser obviously does = not, as I have their current catalog. Many thanks, Matt Link ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1D44D.60E0CC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List:  Can anyone direct me to a set of lenses for Bowser N-5 = &=20 N-5c cabin cars?  Does anyone even make these sets, as Bowser = obviously=20 does not, as I have their current catalog.  Many thanks,  Matt = Link
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1D44D.60E0CC80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Lens sets for Bowser N-5 & N-5c Cabin Cars Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:50:22 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C1D44F.72403540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eastern Car Works out of Langhorne, PA makes windows for Bowser N-5c = ($3.00). Contact Jerry Ehrlen at 215-757-4448 or goto = www.easterncarworks.com=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: TJ LInk=20 To: PRR-Talk=20 Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 10:35 PM Subject: [PRR] Lens sets for Bowser N-5 & N-5c Cabin Cars List: Can anyone direct me to a set of lenses for Bowser N-5 & N-5c = cabin cars? Does anyone even make these sets, as Bowser obviously does = not, as I have their current catalog. Many thanks, Matt Link ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C1D44F.72403540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eastern Car Works out of Langhorne, PA makes windows = for=20 Bowser N-5c ($3.00).  Contact Jerry Ehrlen at 215-757-4448 or goto = www.easterncarworks.com =
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 TJ = LInk
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 = 10:35=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Lens sets for = Bowser N-5=20 & N-5c Cabin Cars

List:  Can anyone direct me to a set of lenses for Bowser = N-5 &=20 N-5c cabin cars?  Does anyone even make these sets, as Bowser = obviously=20 does not, as I have their current catalog.  Many thanks,  = Matt=20 Link
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C1D44F.72403540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:51:15 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Crestline Roundhouse Preservation From: prrq2 List, This past week-end, a well attended meeting was held in Crestline to establish a group to help preserve the PRR roundhouse there. The group, The Crestline Roundhouse Preservation Society, will be applying for non-profit status and will work with the City of Crestline and the owner, all of whom are interested in seeing it revived. At this meeting, officers were elected, a Mission Statement was adopted, and a Board of Trustees was established. In the next couple of days, I will up-date the "Preservation" page of my web site http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ with more detailed info for those who are interested. There is a lot of excitement about the possibilities, but there is a long way to go. Bill Ayers ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lens sets for Bowser N-5 & N-5c Cabin Cars Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:06:51 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1D451.BFB47A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Window sets for both the Bowser N-5/N-5B and the N-5C are available from = American Model Builders in their Laser Kit line of parts. =20 Dennis Mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES (732) 271-0800 Voice http://www.onerrave.com (732) 271-0805 FAX 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: TJ LInk=20 To: PRR-Talk=20 Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 10:35 PM Subject: [PRR] Lens sets for Bowser N-5 & N-5c Cabin Cars List: Can anyone direct me to a set of lenses for Bowser N-5 & N-5c = cabin cars? Does anyone even make these sets, as Bowser obviously does = not, as I have their current catalog. Many thanks, Matt Link ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1D451.BFB47A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Window sets for both the Bowser N-5/N-5B and the N-5C are available = from=20 American Model Builders in their Laser Kit line of parts. 

Dennis
Mailto: dennis@onerrave.com
 
D & S=20 HOBBIES           =             &= nbsp;   =20 (732) 271-0800  Voice
http://www.onerrave.com  &= nbsp;          =20 (732) 271-0805  FAX
34 Main Street
South Bound Brook, NJ = 08880
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 TJ = LInk
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 = 10:35=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Lens sets for = Bowser N-5=20 & N-5c Cabin Cars

List:  Can anyone direct me to a set of lenses for Bowser = N-5 &=20 N-5c cabin cars?  Does anyone even make these sets, as Bowser = obviously=20 does not, as I have their current catalog.  Many thanks,  = Matt=20 Link
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1D451.BFB47A00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lens sets for Bowser N-5 & N-5c Cabin Cars Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:12:15 -0500 American Model Builders makes laser cut acrylic ones... >From their web site www.laserkit.com : Kit No. 255 Bowser N-5 Caboose - MSRP...$4.95 Kit No. 256 Bowser N-5c Caboose - MSRP...$5.95 Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: TJ LInk To: PRR-Talk Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 10:35 PM Subject: [PRR] Lens sets for Bowser N-5 & N-5c Cabin Cars List: Can anyone direct me to a set of lenses for Bowser N-5 & N-5c cabin cars? Does anyone even make these sets, as Bowser obviously does not, as I have their current catalog. Many thanks, Matt Link ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:21:37 -0500 Subject: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in From: Jerry Britton Broadway Limited Imports has announced the details of their PRR M1a and M1b locomotives, to ship by the end of this year. These units are ready to run, DC or DCC, and feature on-board sound. There are three numbers of each class, plus an un-numbered of each class. Advance reservations at the dealer of your choice are HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. Merchandise Service is such an authorized dealer for BLI and more information may be found at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar2.html#bli ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:18:18 -0500 From: pennsyneil@comcast.net Subject: [PRR] Trailblazer/Jeffersonian Hi Group, Does anyone know how long the cars for the trail blazer stayed in FOM colors? Also did they continue as a trainset after the 1949 refit,as maybe a protect consist.If not does anyone know the assignments for the dinners and tail cars Thanks Neil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:07:48 -0500 List, What is the quality of this model? I know it sounds like a dumb question but I have never puchased anything from them. How durable are they. I run my trains and I want pulling power and durability. The sound feature seems great, But how is the sound quality? I hate being the devil's advocate but I am curious. Thanks in advance Sam Vastano >From: Jerry Britton >To: PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in >Ready-to-Run!!! >Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:21:37 -0500 > >Broadway Limited Imports has announced the details of their PRR M1a and M1b >locomotives, to ship by the end of this year. > >These units are ready to run, DC or DCC, and feature on-board sound. There >are three numbers of each class, plus an un-numbered of each class. > >Advance reservations at the dealer of your choice are HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. > >Merchandise Service is such an authorized dealer for BLI and more >information may be found at > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar2.html#bli >----------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com >Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com >For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net >Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:15:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's From: Jerry Britton On 3/26/02 11:07 AM, Sam Vastano (svastano@hotmail.com) wrote: > What is the quality of this model? I know it sounds like a dumb question > but I have never puchased anything from them. How durable are they. I run > my trains and I want pulling power and durability. The sound feature seems > great, But how is the sound quality? I hate being the devil's advocate but > I am curious. > Broadway Limited Imports is a new company. Their first product is the New York Central's J1e Hudson, due this summer. The ace in the hole that lends credence to the quality of these models -- from an unknown manufacturer -- is that they are owned by Oriental Limited, a company with a long history in the brass market. I think Oriental is taking the lead here, that a brass quality model done in high quality plastic and mass produced is the future in the hobby. I think you can safely expect the quality of Life Like Heritage series or better. A sound sample may be heard at http://www.broadway-limited.com/qs2p-308.mp3. > >> From: Jerry Britton >> To: PRR-Talk LIST >> Subject: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in >> Ready-to-Run!!! >> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:21:37 -0500 >> >> Broadway Limited Imports has announced the details of their PRR M1a and M1b >> locomotives, to ship by the end of this year. >> >> These units are ready to run, DC or DCC, and feature on-board sound. There >> are three numbers of each class, plus an un-numbered of each class. >> >> Advance reservations at the dealer of your choice are HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. >> >> Merchandise Service is such an authorized dealer for BLI and more >> information may be found at >> >> http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar2.html#bli ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:28:46 -0500 Jerry, Group, Thanks, I Guess I have to make a decision, I really enjoy putting Bowser kits together. But if the quality is better..... Thanks for the input. Sam Vastano >From: Jerry Britton >To: Sam Vastano , PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in >Ready-to-Run!!! >Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:15:31 -0500 > >On 3/26/02 11:07 AM, Sam Vastano (svastano@hotmail.com) wrote: > > > What is the quality of this model? I know it sounds like a dumb >question > > but I have never puchased anything from them. How durable are they. I >run > > my trains and I want pulling power and durability. The sound feature >seems > > great, But how is the sound quality? I hate being the devil's advocate >but > > I am curious. > > >Broadway Limited Imports is a new company. Their first product is the New >York Central's J1e Hudson, due this summer. > >The ace in the hole that lends credence to the quality of these models -- >from an unknown manufacturer -- is that they are owned by Oriental Limited, >a company with a long history in the brass market. I think Oriental is >taking the lead here, that a brass quality model done in high quality >plastic and mass produced is the future in the hobby. I think you can >safely >expect the quality of Life Like Heritage series or better. > >A sound sample may be heard at >http://www.broadway-limited.com/qs2p-308.mp3. > > > >> From: Jerry Britton > >> To: PRR-Talk LIST > >> Subject: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in > >> Ready-to-Run!!! > >> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:21:37 -0500 > >> > >> Broadway Limited Imports has announced the details of their PRR M1a and >M1b > >> locomotives, to ship by the end of this year. > >> > >> These units are ready to run, DC or DCC, and feature on-board sound. >There > >> are three numbers of each class, plus an un-numbered of each class. > >> > >> Advance reservations at the dealer of your choice are HIGHLY >RECOMMENDED. > >> > >> Merchandise Service is such an authorized dealer for BLI and more > >> information may be found at > >> > >> http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar2.html#bli > >----------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com >Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com >For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net >Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:29:02 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Sam asks: >What is the quality of this model? I know it sounds like a dumb question >but I have never puchased anything from them. How durable are they. No one knows yet. Their first model, the NYC J1e is due out in a couple of months...we'll see then. The descriptions sound really promising. As has been posted earlier, this company is a spin off of a major brass importer. >I run my trains and I want pulling power and durability. The sound feature >seems >great, But how is the sound quality? I hate being the devil's advocate but >I am curious. The sound system is from a known manufacturer, but they are just entering the HO scale market, and the DCC is an unknown as well. I'm sure the other brass importers are watching this move VERY carefully. I hope it works, and I hope Eddy of Rail Classics notices...I would LOVE to buy ten P5a electrics at $200-300 each, rather than 2 at $1K each!!! I know I can buy 4 M1a for the price of the last M1a imported, and I'm glad I waited . I had several questions which I posted to Broadway Limited Imports this morning regarding details/versions (ie. tender, front end, trainphone) and I will let y'all know the answers as soon as I get them. Hopefully they're talking to Greg Martin about the paint colors ! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:29:12 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: Ore cars From: John Sheets There is an ex-PRR solid bottom ore jenny abandoned at a now closed foundry on the east side on the UP (ex-CNW) Proviso Yard near Chicago. The foundry would be in Bellwood or Berkeley, not sure which, When it first arrived many years ago, it was in PC paint and used to transfer materials within the foundry which was switched by a GE 44 toon unit. The Ore Jenny is now painted a red primer, think the couplers were removed, but otherwise a bit beat up but sound. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:30:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's Sam, This is a new company. Nothing released yet. The NYC J1e Hudsons are first. I have one of those ordered. My question is, Where did the T1 go? It was due in Oct. It maybe pushed back now to get the M1's out first? I emailed Broadway Limited Imports a several months or so ago because of a conversation we had at a local hobby shop. We were thinking If the J1e is retailed at 275.00 or so, just what do we get for that money. We estimated all the electronic gimmicks this is to include, ie: sound, DCC etc, that cost would be around 125.00+. That leaves about $150.00 for a high tech locomotive. Will this be on the same technology as a Proto loco? We were wondering. So I emailed BLI's asking questions. His reply was that he can see our point. He went on to add that it is easy for anyone to speak of what they are planning for a model. He assured me that this WILL be top of the line stuff. He told me to wait a few 5-6 weeks and he will post some sample pics of the J1e on the website. I am still waiting for the pics to be posted. I am hoping this will be a proto 2000 like model with the high tech features they speak of. Not a high tech gimmick filled mantua type loco. We will just have to see. I will inspect the Hudson when it hits. I got my fingers crossed but I got a feeling we may have something here..........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:35:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's From: Jerry Britton On 3/26/02 11:30 AM, Gary Mittner (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > This is a new company. Nothing released yet. The NYC J1e Hudsons are > first. I have one of those ordered. My question is, Where did the T1 go? > It was due in Oct. It maybe pushed back now to get the M1's out first? I have e-mailed them (as a dealer) for an update. Publicly, they were showing both the T1 and M1 projects equally, with no ETA's. They had previously told me the T1 this fall. However, they are now telling me an N&W Class A will be coming this fall. (If anyone wants the N&W loco, stay tuned, there are no part numbers yet.) I had previously told them of the upcoming PRRT&HS convention and the need for part numbers for ordering. Perhaps they M1 part numbers were announced just for this purpose. > I emailed Broadway Limited Imports a several months or so ago > because of a conversation we had at a local hobby shop. We were thinking > If the J1e is retailed at 275.00 or so, just what do we get for that > money. We estimated all the electronic gimmicks this is to include, ie: > sound, DCC etc, that cost would be around 125.00+. That leaves about > $150.00 for a high tech locomotive. Will this be on the same technology > as a Proto loco? We were wondering. So I emailed BLI's asking questions. > His reply was that he can see our point. He went on to add that it is > easy for anyone to speak of what they are planning for a model. He > assured me that this WILL be top of the line stuff. He told me to wait a > few 5-6 weeks and he will post some sample pics of the J1e on the > website. I am still waiting for the pics to be posted. Dealers are to receive demo units shortly. > I am hoping this will be a proto 2000 like model with the high > tech features they speak of. Not a high tech gimmick filled mantua type > loco. We will just have to see. I will inspect the Hudson when it hits. > I got my fingers crossed but I got a feeling we may have something > here..........Gary > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 02 11:50:22 EST From: LINKM@timken.com Subject: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE List: Can anyone direct me to photos of an N-5 caboose with trainphone antenna e? I have a bowser N-5c with trainphone, but was wondering what the arrangemen t looks like on a plain old N-5. Also, a question for the Lines West fellows: what is the most likely caboose to be found in say Crestline in 1948, and it's paint scheme? A boswer western region N-5? What a great place to come for inf ormation! Thanks! Matt Link ********************************************************************** This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company ********************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:17:30 -0500 Sam- I agree with you. A new mgf of Pennsy locos will be nice, but is the quality, and pulling power. If it pulls anything like the P2K Heritage Series HH1- you can have it. I tested the N & W version doubled headed with a Pennsy Version and it COULD NOT pull 60 NMRA weighted cars around our club layout. The grades are only 1.7%. As nice as the P2K HH1 is, an engine like that should pull more. Furthermore, their is no room in the boiler for weight to be added. I am willing to give Broadway Limited a chance, but I am not going to put $ down on a model I havent seen yet, let alone have no idea to its drive mechanism. Bottom line is will it pull like a Bowser. I am willing to build and superdetail a Bowser kit and add a sound system to it. I dont think an M-1a would look right pulling only 20-30 cars. Then again, not many people have the room to pull 80 cars. Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Ready-to-Run!!! > List, > > What is the quality of this model? I know it sounds like a dumb question > but I have never puchased anything from them. How durable are they. I run > my trains and I want pulling power and durability. The sound feature seems > great, But how is the sound quality? I hate being the devil's advocate but > I am curious. > > Thanks in advance > > Sam Vastano > > > >From: Jerry Britton > >To: PRR-Talk LIST > >Subject: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in > >Ready-to-Run!!! > >Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:21:37 -0500 > > > >Broadway Limited Imports has announced the details of their PRR M1a and M1b > >locomotives, to ship by the end of this year. > > > >These units are ready to run, DC or DCC, and feature on-board sound. There > >are three numbers of each class, plus an un-numbered of each class. > > > >Advance reservations at the dealer of your choice are HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. > > > >Merchandise Service is such an authorized dealer for BLI and more > >information may be found at > > > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar2.html#bli > >----------------------------------------------------------- > >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > >Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > >For brass collectors... > > http://www.brasstrains.net > >Free serving of railroad web sites... > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:20:53 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE Matt asks: >Also, a question for the Lines West fellows: >what is the most likely caboose to be found in say Crestline in 1948, and it's >paint scheme? A boswer western region N-5? Can you say N6b? The N6b wins by a significant margin over the N5 class(es) in terms of numbers, well into the late 50's. Paint would be FCC with FCC or black roof (and no I don't want to (re)start THAT debate ) and black iron work. As for models...we're promised a resin N6b "soon"...That will, of course, obsolete the Quaility Craft wood kit. Note: I've long suspected, based on videos from the 1940s, that through trains often got the newer steel cabins while the local jobs kept the wooden cabins, so assignment of cabins to particular trains would be an issue to explore. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:31:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's From: Jerry Britton On 3/26/02 12:17 PM, Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. (gregv@NetReach.Net) wrote: > I agree with you. A new mgf of Pennsy locos will be nice, but is the > quality, and pulling power. If it pulls anything like the P2K Heritage > Series HH1- you can have it. I tested the N & W version doubled headed with > a Pennsy Version and it COULD NOT pull 60 NMRA weighted cars around our club > layout. The grades are only 1.7%. As nice as the P2K HH1 is, an engine > like that should pull more. Furthermore, their is no room in the boiler for > weight to be added. I am willing to give Broadway Limited a chance, but I > am not going to put $ down on a model I havent seen yet, let alone have no > idea to its drive mechanism. Bottom line is will it pull like a Bowser. I > am willing to build and superdetail a Bowser kit and add a sound system to > it. I dont think an M-1a would look right pulling only 20-30 cars. Then > again, not many people have the room to pull 80 cars. > The good news for Pennsy fans is that the M1's are not due until later in the year. And the NYC J1e is due in 2-3 months. We are fortunate to have a list subscriber who has an NYC unit on order, so I'm sure everyone will hear from him when the time comes. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:30:44 -0500 LINKM- The PRRTHS Philadelphia Chpt last year did a modeling session on N-5c cabins, how to superdetail them, painting them, and a list of all the parts needed from each different manufacturer. If you are interested, I can get it to you. Let me know. Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:50 AM Subject: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE > > List: Can anyone direct me to photos of an N-5 caboose with trainphone antenna > e? I have a bowser N-5c with trainphone, but was wondering what the arrangemen > t looks like on a plain old N-5. Also, a question for the Lines West fellows: > what is the most likely caboose to be found in say Crestline in 1948, and it's > paint scheme? A boswer western region N-5? What a great place to come for inf > ormation! Thanks! Matt Link > > > ********************************************************************** > This message and any attachments are intended for the > individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this > communication to others; also please notify the sender by > replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. > > The Timken Company > ********************************************************************** > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:37:40 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b'sin Jerry, I downloaded the sounds from the BLI website and tried playing them on Windows Media Player. All I get is a few very short "ffft"s, and then silence. As I recall M1's sounded louder ;-) Has anyone done better? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================= Jerry Britton wrote: > A sound sample may be heard at http://www.broadway-limited.com/qs2p-308.mp3. = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:41:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b'sin From: Jerry Britton On 3/26/02 12:37 PM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > I downloaded the sounds from the BLI website and tried playing them on Windows > Media Player. All I get is a few very short "ffft"s, and then silence. As I > recall M1's sounded louder ;-) > Has anyone done better? > It's an MP3 format. Is your system configured for such a file? I'm on a Mac, using IE 5.5 under MacOS X. Works fine for me. Sounds awesome! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:42:01 -0500 I am anxious to see how the J turned out. Fill us in asap. Greg V. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." ; "Sam Vastano" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's inReady-to-Run!!! > On 3/26/02 12:17 PM, Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. (gregv@NetReach.Net) wrote: > > > I agree with you. A new mgf of Pennsy locos will be nice, but is the > > quality, and pulling power. If it pulls anything like the P2K Heritage > > Series HH1- you can have it. I tested the N & W version doubled headed with > > a Pennsy Version and it COULD NOT pull 60 NMRA weighted cars around our club > > layout. The grades are only 1.7%. As nice as the P2K HH1 is, an engine > > like that should pull more. Furthermore, their is no room in the boiler for > > weight to be added. I am willing to give Broadway Limited a chance, but I > > am not going to put $ down on a model I havent seen yet, let alone have no > > idea to its drive mechanism. Bottom line is will it pull like a Bowser. I > > am willing to build and superdetail a Bowser kit and add a sound system to > > it. I dont think an M-1a would look right pulling only 20-30 cars. Then > > again, not many people have the room to pull 80 cars. > > > The good news for Pennsy fans is that the M1's are not due until later in > the year. And the NYC J1e is due in 2-3 months. We are fortunate to have a > list subscriber who has an NYC unit on order, so I'm sure everyone will hear > from him when the time comes. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:08:16 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] C&BT rec.models.railroad is propagating a rumor that C&BT shops is going out of business. Dick Schweiger had been very ill, so I am not surprised if the news is true. However I would be saddened and very disappointed. I have patiently waited three years for the announced PRR X29b's and d's. I remember seeing test shots of the shells three years ago. Does anyone have any news? > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:06:55 -0500 From: Godfrey Hall Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b'sin jerry - list: there are a number of lurkers in the Hamilton on. ca. area that are waiting for the NYC J1's since the TH&B Ry. had 2 former NYC units. There will be at least 100 units lettered TH&B available. We'll let you know as soon as we check ours out! Godfrey Hall Jerry Britton wrote: > On 3/26/02 12:17 PM, Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. (gregv@NetReach.Net) wrote: > > > I agree with you. A new mgf of Pennsy locos will be nice, but is the > > quality, and pulling power. If it pulls anything like the P2K Heritage > > Series HH1- you can have it. I tested the N & W version doubled headed with > > a Pennsy Version and it COULD NOT pull 60 NMRA weighted cars around our club > > layout. The grades are only 1.7%. As nice as the P2K HH1 is, an engine > > like that should pull more. Furthermore, their is no room in the boiler for > > weight to be added. I am willing to give Broadway Limited a chance, but I > > am not going to put $ down on a model I havent seen yet, let alone have no > > idea to its drive mechanism. Bottom line is will it pull like a Bowser. I > > am willing to build and superdetail a Bowser kit and add a sound system to > > it. I dont think an M-1a would look right pulling only 20-30 cars. Then > > again, not many people have the room to pull 80 cars. > > > The good news for Pennsy fans is that the M1's are not due until later in > the year. And the NYC J1e is due in 2-3 months. We are fortunate to have a > list subscriber who has an NYC unit on order, so I'm sure everyone will hear > from him when the time comes. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:39:41 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Branchline Trains Passenger Cars From: Jerry Britton Well over two years ago, Branchline Trains announced a new line of HO scale heavyweight passenger cars. There were three original cars, including two appropriate for the PRR...an 8-1-2 and a 10-1-2. Branchline Trains is owned by Hobby Stores Distributing, which maintains a monopoly on BT product. As a dealer, I recently opted to cease relations with HSD due to numerous issues that don't pertain the news that follows (but establishes my source for the information). Last evening the president of both companies called me to try to smooth over relations, to get me to resume business with HSD. In the course of the conversation, it came out that a third party was doing the tooling for the passenger car line. The relationship got ugly -- which I can totally understand -- and the entire mess is now wrapped up in a lawsuit. The bottom line is, the Branchline passenger car line will likely never see the light of day. The president's exact words were "indefinite hold". On another disturbing note, the president himself claimed "no knowledge" of the 6100-series REA reefers!!! (Who's running this company, anyway!) He kept telling me "the wood reefers are available!" And said that "more of the early boxcars would be run next." Who cares! Meanwhile, if you want high-quality ready-to-run cars, take a look at InterMountain. In fact, they will soon be offering RtR versions of Bethlehem Car Works cars. The first two due are Reading coaches. I can't yet say what's next... ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:50:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/26/02 Greg and listers, At one time I had at least one of every Bowser PRR loco produced with the exception of the M1a, A5, and G5. I too loved putting the locos together, detailing them and tweaking the mechanisms until they ran like switch watches. It was also a time when the only other option was buying a brass loco for almost 4 times the money of a Bowser. As I grew into the hobby, and my income became more than $100.00 a week gross pay and I was able to afford a brass loco or two. I am now the proud owner of several brass PRR locos that I was fortunate enough to purchase before the yuppies drove the prices into the stratosphere to make them "collectible investments" instead of operating locomotives on a model railroad. Today's brass locos are not more than pretty jewelry designed to NEVER be run or painted, much less taken out of the box. I am not a real fan of LifeLike and their Heritage series but they have provided us with affordable and runnable, highly detailed steam locos, something the brass importers seem to have forgotten. Bowser locomotives have the potential of becoming very detailed locomotives if you enjoy spending hours filing, sanding, drilling, remotoring, regearing and assembling them. After which you will have a nicely done, operating locomotive for slightly less than a cheap brass loco available at a train show for around $350. When Broadway Limited releases their M1a, it will still be a plastic locomotive, subject to the limitations of all plastic locomotives, limited traction and low weight. But (hopefully) it will be assembled, DCC and sound installed, and available for just a little over the price of a Soundtraxx decoder, can motor, and speaker. If the locomotive even comes with the limited detail a non-super detailed Bowser loco, it will be a major improvement. I don't know many PRR modelers that would not buy two of the Broadway Limited locos to accomodate the lack of pulling power. It sounds almost too good to be true or it could be the fact that a company has finally proven that todays prices are WAY out of line. Think about it, Soundtraxx will have competition, as will Life Like and Bachmann. There is no reason a current loco shouldn't come DCC and Sound equipped without reaching brass prices. I personally hope they kick A-- on the current high-priced brass market. Keep your fingers crossed, we might actually have something good happen to our hobby. Sign me up for one of the M1as, sight unseen. Regards, Nick Kulp Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Ready-to-Run!!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:17:30 -0500 Sam- I agree with you. A new mgf of Pennsy locos will be nice, but is the quality, and pulling power. If it pulls anything like the P2K Heritage Series HH1- you can have it. I tested the N & W version doubled headed with a Pennsy Version and it COULD NOT pull 60 NMRA weighted cars around our club layout. The grades are only 1.7%. As nice as the P2K HH1 is, an engine like that should pull more. Furthermore, their is no room in the boiler for weight to be added. I am willing to give Broadway Limited a chance, but I am not going to put $ down on a model I havent seen yet, let alone have no idea to its drive mechanism. Bottom line is will it pull like a Bowser. I am willing to build and superdetail a Bowser kit and add a sound system to it. I dont think an M-1a would look right pulling only 20-30 cars. Then again, not many people have the room to pull 80 cars. Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:05:08 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Greg sez: The grades are only 1.7%. Um Greg, 30 cars each on a nearly 2% grade? Damn, that's pretty good! >As nice as the P2K HH1 is, an engine >like that should pull more. Why? The prototype didn't pull more on that type of grade! On Tehatchapi, the SP routinely used 4 cab forwards on a 90 car train...that's less than 25 cars per loco! Bottom line is will it pull like a Bowser No, and it is physically impossible to make it do so..."Captain, I cannot violate the laws of physics!" The weight of a Bowser comes in part from the metal boiler...with a consequent loss in detail...you picks your poison...a plastic or partly plastic loco can beat the Bowser hands down in molded detail, but never in weight, and therefore traction. >I dont think an M-1a would look right pulling only 20-30 cars. Then >again, not many people have the room to pull 80 cars. OK Greg, how many times have you seen a single HO steamer pull 80 cars on a layout and did it really look prototypical? On most layouts the train would stretch through at least three scenes and look pretty unprototypical. Don't even bother to mention modular layouts since the complete absence of curves (except corners) on most of them renders them to be completely unprototypic (IMHO)! On objective in good layout design would be to limit the amount of tangent track so that portions of your train are always hidden, thus allowing you to run shorter trains while maintaining the illusion of size. In fact, I would REALLY like this engine to fail to pull 21 cars up 2%. See, I've set the train length at 20 cars w/o helpers, and helpers REALLY work better if you actually need them . The best example I've seen of this was on Larry Reynold's Horseshoe curve layout in Allentown. I ran a 40 car train of hoppers over the curve with two 2-10-4s on the point and 2 I1s on the rear...it looked HUGE and with the sound of exhausts barking at both ends....WOW. You could watch the slack action move in the middle of the train as the helpers picked up the back 1/3. of course, YMMV Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:52:13 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline Trains Passenger Cars So in one day I find out that I am not going to get 10-1-2 Pullmans, I am not going to get 8-1-2 Pullmans, I am not going to get 6100 series REA reefers, I am not going to get X29b's and I am not going to get X29d's. Maybe its not such a good day for PRR modelers after all! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > Well over two years ago, Branchline Trains announced a new line of HO scale > heavyweight passenger cars. There were three original cars, including two > appropriate for the PRR...an 8-1-2 and a 10-1-2. > > Branchline Trains is owned by Hobby Stores Distributing, which maintains a > monopoly on BT product. As a dealer, I recently opted to cease relations > with HSD due to numerous issues that don't pertain the news that follows > (but establishes my source for the information). > > Last evening the president of both companies called me to try to smooth over > relations, to get me to resume business with HSD. > > In the course of the conversation, it came out that a third party was doing > the tooling for the passenger car line. The relationship got ugly -- which I > can totally understand -- and the entire mess is now wrapped up in a > lawsuit. > > The bottom line is, the Branchline passenger car line will likely never see > the light of day. The president's exact words were "indefinite hold". > > On another disturbing note, the president himself claimed "no knowledge" of > the 6100-series REA reefers!!! (Who's running this company, anyway!) He kept > telling me "the wood reefers are available!" And said that "more of the > early boxcars would be run next." Who cares! > > Meanwhile, if you want high-quality ready-to-run cars, take a look at > InterMountain. In fact, they will soon be offering RtR versions of Bethlehem > Car Works cars. The first two due are Reading coaches. I can't yet say > what's next... ;-) > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:00:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline Trains Passenger Cars From: Jerry Britton On 3/26/02 2:52 PM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > So in one day I find out that I am not going to get 10-1-2 Pullmans, I am not > going to get 8-1-2 Pullmans, I am not going to get 6100 series REA reefers, I > am > not going to get X29b's and I am not going to get X29d's. Maybe its not such > a > good day for PRR modelers after all! > Care for an M1? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:02:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] C&BT --part1_f7.188ebabf.29d22dcf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy, Dick has been very ill. However, he had a lung transplant on March 3 and is now home. He is facing a lengthy recovery. I have had no indication from him that he is going out of business -- just a hiatus while he recovers. Rich Orr --part1_f7.188ebabf.29d22dcf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy,

Dick has been very ill.  However, he had a lung transplant on March 3 and is now home.  He is facing a lengthy recovery.  I have had no indication from him that he is going out of business -- just a hiatus while he recovers.

Rich Orr --part1_f7.188ebabf.29d22dcf_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:36:33 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] C&BT --------------B89468E4AC4AAABD57BF5E28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whew! I will continue to be patient. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > Andy, > > Dick has been very ill. However, he had a lung transplant on March 3 > and is now home. He is facing a lengthy recovery. I have had no > indication from him that he is going out of business -- just a hiatus > while he recovers. > > Rich Orr -- --------------B89468E4AC4AAABD57BF5E28 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whew!  I will continue to be patient.

Regards,

Andy Miller
asmiller@mitre.org

==================================================
SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote:

Andy,

Dick has been very ill.  However, he had a lung transplant on March 3 and is now home.  He is facing a lengthy recovery.  I have had no indication from him that he is going out of business -- just a hiatus while he recovers.

Rich Orr

--
 
 
  --------------B89468E4AC4AAABD57BF5E28-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Franke" Subject: Re: [PRR] C&BT Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:24:12 -0500 Folks I was not propagating a rumor I was just trying to get information.I heard initially on the East Broad Top news list that he was closing due to health reasons . Though my posting on recmodels railroad I have gotten information that the owner has had serious medical problems but is recovering which is good news to all. Mark Franke MD Fairfax, Va ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew S. Miller" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:08 PM Subject: [PRR] C&BT > rec.models.railroad is propagating a rumor that C&BT shops is going out of business. > Dick Schweiger had been very ill, so I am not surprised if the news is true. However I > would be saddened and very disappointed. I have patiently waited three years for the > announced PRR X29b's and d's. I remember seeing test shots of the shells three years > ago. > > Does anyone have any news? > > > > > Regards, > > > > Andy Miller > > asmiller@mitre.org > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:52:26 -0500 To be exact, it was 54 cars and slipping. 54-H-21a hoppers that roll like a real boxcar-they have intermountain wheels on them. No offense, I expects an articulate to pull more than that, especially double headed. I still love the locomotive. I think P2K did an outstanding job, especially for the detail. It is nearly perfect. I'm have old mentality- I like long drags! Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." To: Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Ready-to-Run!!! > Greg sez: > The grades are only 1.7%. > > Um Greg, 30 cars each on a nearly 2% grade? Damn, that's pretty good! > > >As nice as the P2K HH1 is, an engine > >like that should pull more. > > Why? The prototype didn't pull more on that type of grade! On Tehatchapi, > the SP routinely used 4 cab forwards on a 90 car train...that's less than > 25 cars per loco! > > Bottom line is will it pull like a Bowser > > No, and it is physically impossible to make it do so..."Captain, I cannot > violate the laws of physics!" The weight of a Bowser comes in part from > the metal boiler...with a consequent loss in detail...you picks your > poison...a plastic or partly plastic loco can beat the Bowser hands down in > molded detail, but never in weight, and therefore traction. > > >I dont think an M-1a would look right pulling only 20-30 cars. Then > >again, not many people have the room to pull 80 cars. > > OK Greg, how many times have you seen a single HO steamer pull 80 cars on a > layout and did it really look prototypical? On most layouts the train > would stretch through at least three scenes and look pretty unprototypical. > Don't even bother to mention modular layouts since the complete absence of > curves (except corners) on most of them renders them to be completely > unprototypic (IMHO)! On objective in good layout design would be to limit > the amount of tangent track so that portions of your train are always > hidden, thus allowing you to run shorter trains while maintaining the > illusion of size. In fact, I would REALLY like this engine to fail to pull > 21 cars up 2%. See, I've set the train length at 20 cars w/o helpers, and > helpers REALLY work better if you actually need them . The best example > I've seen of this was on Larry Reynold's Horseshoe curve layout in > Allentown. I ran a 40 car train of hoppers over the curve with two 2-10-4s > on the point and 2 I1s on the rear...it looked HUGE and with the sound of > exhausts barking at both ends....WOW. You could watch the slack action > move in the middle of the train as the helpers picked up the back 1/3. > > of course, YMMV > Bruce > > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:01:02 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] C&BT To close the rumor mill loop ... I posted a statement to the EBT-list that a hobby dealer in Pittsburgh reported that Dick Schweigart told him in mid-February that he was going to make one more run of HOn3 EBT hoppers before selling out. Dick would have made that statement before his transplant, and my hobby dealer probably didn't know Dick had already undergone surgery, since our conversation was within days of his operation. I have no reason to disbelieve the source so assume Dick intended, or was at least seriously considering, selling C&BT shops before he had his transplant. I certainly join in sentiments hoping for his speedy recovery. Vagel Keller Pittsburgh --On Tuesday, March 26, 2002 16:24 -0500 Mark Franke wrote: > Folks > I was not propagating a rumor I was just trying to get information.I heard > initially on the East Broad Top news list that he was closing due to > health reasons . Though my posting on recmodels railroad I have gotten > information that the owner has had serious medical problems but is > recovering which is good news to all. > Mark Franke MD > Fairfax, Va > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew S. Miller" > To: "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:08 PM > Subject: [PRR] C&BT > > >> rec.models.railroad is propagating a rumor that C&BT shops is going out >> of > business. >> Dick Schweiger had been very ill, so I am not surprised if the news is > true. However I >> would be saddened and very disappointed. I have patiently waited three > years for the >> announced PRR X29b's and d's. I remember seeing test shots of the shells > three years >> ago. >> >> Does anyone have any news? >> >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Andy Miller >> > asmiller@mitre.org >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:10:33 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE --On Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:50 +0000 LINKM@timken.com wrote: > > List: Can anyone direct me to photos of an N-5 caboose with trainphone > antenna e? I have a bowser N-5c with trainphone, but was wondering what > the arrangemen t looks like on a plain old N-5. _Caboose Data Book No. 2: Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania and Long Island Railroads_ (Hicksville, NY: N.J. International, Inc., 1988). ISBN 0-934088-08-X This source includes one photo and a scale drawing, w/ side and end views, of a class N5b cabin with trainphone antenna. Also, there is an interesting photo of a clas N5 cabin with archbar trucks and early "roof antenna" mounted on the cupula roof ... looks like a luggage rack! The N5 and N5b are different classes, and are supposed to have different spotting features. But I'll be darned if I can tell the difference without adult supervision. Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:10:00 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR Branchline Trains I don't want to start any malicious rumors but one of my two hobby shop guys keeps telling me that HSD is in serious financial trouble. They keep calling him with great deals on merchandise so they can generate some cash flow. If HSD goes down who knows what will happen to Branchline. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:43:30 +0000 Well if Bowser can fit in all that weight and a motor it doesn't make sense that somebody else can't do it. All the plastic needs to do is wrap the weight with a detailed surface. They could also power the tender and put a diesel type mechanism in it plus more weight. This isn't rocket science we are talking about. > To be exact, it was 54 cars and slipping. 54-H-21a hoppers that roll like a > real boxcar-they have intermountain wheels on them. No offense, I expects > an articulate to pull more than that, especially double headed. I still > love the locomotive. I think P2K did an outstanding job, especially for the > detail. It is nearly perfect. I'm have old mentality- I like long drags! > > Greg V > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 2:05 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in > Ready-to-Run!!! > > > > Greg sez: > > The grades are only 1.7%. > > > > Um Greg, 30 cars each on a nearly 2% grade? Damn, that's pretty good! > > > > >As nice as the P2K HH1 is, an engine > > >like that should pull more. > > > > Why? The prototype didn't pull more on that type of grade! On > Tehatchapi, > > the SP routinely used 4 cab forwards on a 90 car train...that's less than > > 25 cars per loco! > > > > Bottom line is will it pull like a Bowser > > > > No, and it is physically impossible to make it do so..."Captain, I cannot > > violate the laws of physics!" The weight of a Bowser comes in part from > > the metal boiler...with a consequent loss in detail...you picks your > > poison...a plastic or partly plastic loco can beat the Bowser hands down > in > > molded detail, but never in weight, and therefore traction. > > > > >I dont think an M-1a would look right pulling only 20-30 cars. Then > > >again, not many people have the room to pull 80 cars. > > > > OK Greg, how many times have you seen a single HO steamer pull 80 cars on > a > > layout and did it really look prototypical? On most layouts the train > > would stretch through at least three scenes and look pretty > unprototypical. > > Don't even bother to mention modular layouts since the complete absence of > > curves (except corners) on most of them renders them to be completely > > unprototypic (IMHO)! On objective in good layout design would be to limit > > > the amount of tangent track so that portions of your train are always > > hidden, thus allowing you to run shorter trains while maintaining the > > illusion of size. In fact, I would REALLY like this engine to fail to > pull > > 21 cars up 2%. See, I've set the train length at 20 cars w/o helpers, and > > helpers REALLY work better if you actually need them . The best > example > > I've seen of this was on Larry Reynold's Horseshoe curve layout in > > Allentown. I ran a 40 car train of hoppers over the curve with two > 2-10-4s > > on the point and 2 I1s on the rear...it looked HUGE and with the sound of > > exhausts barking at both ends....WOW. You could watch the slack action > > move in the middle of the train as the helpers picked up the back 1/3. > > > > of course, YMMV > > Bruce > > > > > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin > > __ > > / \ > > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] C&BT Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:45:40 -0600 At a recent Chicago (Rosemont Horizon located) Hobby Industry Show, Dick had indicated that he contacted cystic fibrosis. Let's all pray for him and wish him well on his way to recovery. -----Original Message----- From: Vagel C. Keller, Jr. [mailto:vck@andrew.cmu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 4:01 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] C&BT To close the rumor mill loop ... I posted a statement to the EBT-list that a hobby dealer in Pittsburgh reported that Dick Schweigart told him in mid-February that he was going to make one more run of HOn3 EBT hoppers before selling out. Dick would have made that statement before his transplant, and my hobby dealer probably didn't know Dick had already undergone surgery, since our conversation was within days of his operation. I have no reason to disbelieve the source so assume Dick intended, or was at least seriously considering, selling C&BT shops before he had his transplant. I certainly join in sentiments hoping for his speedy recovery. Vagel Keller Pittsburgh --On Tuesday, March 26, 2002 16:24 -0500 Mark Franke wrote: > Folks > I was not propagating a rumor I was just trying to get information.I heard > initially on the East Broad Top news list that he was closing due to > health reasons . Though my posting on recmodels railroad I have gotten > information that the owner has had serious medical problems but is > recovering which is good news to all. > Mark Franke MD > Fairfax, Va > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew S. Miller" > To: "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:08 PM > Subject: [PRR] C&BT > > >> rec.models.railroad is propagating a rumor that C&BT shops is going out >> of > business. >> Dick Schweiger had been very ill, so I am not surprised if the news is > true. However I >> would be saddened and very disappointed. I have patiently waited three > years for the >> announced PRR X29b's and d's. I remember seeing test shots of the shells > three years >> ago. >> >> Does anyone have any news? >> >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Andy Miller >> > asmiller@mitre.org >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR Branchline Trains Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:02:24 -0500 We hear from Hobby Stores every week. Each week they have a list of what's new as well as specials. They also offer super sales on merchandise that they bought as overstock from certain manufacturers. In the past, these manufacturers have included (truck loads of) Atlas, Life Like and Bachmann. So, they have offered 'great deals" for several years on manufacturers overstocks. Each week we hear of the latest special by email or package stuffers. I don't believe they are going belly up anytime soon based on their super sales - they have had them for years. BTW, ever wonder where some of the great priced items you see at shows come from? As of today, I have been told that the Branchline Heavyweight Passenger Cars and REA Reefers are still coming. There is still no firm delivery date - but that has been true for the last two years, Tooling appears to be an issue but there is no lawsuit holding it hostage. Of course, that's just my opinion based on what I've heard and I could be wrong. Dennis mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com Featuring over 10,000 IN-STOCK model railroad items 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----- Original Message ----- From: Al Buchan To: Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 5:10 PM Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR Branchline Trains > I don't want to start any malicious rumors but one of my two hobby shop guys > keeps telling me that HSD is in serious financial trouble. They keep calling > him with great deals on merchandise so they can generate some cash flow. If > HSD goes down who knows what will happen to Branchline. > > Al > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:10:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR Branchline Trains From: Jerry Britton On 3/26/02 6:02 PM, Dennis @ D & S Hobbies at (dennis@onerrave.com) wrote: > As of today, I have been told that the Branchline Heavyweight Passenger Cars > and REA Reefers are still coming. There is still no firm delivery date - > but that has been true for the last two years, Tooling appears to be an > issue but there is no lawsuit holding it hostage. > > Of course, that's just my opinion based on what I've heard and I could be > wrong. > Dennis is probably hearing this from his salesman. My source, last evening, was "Howard", who identified himself as the president of both companies. He said "indefinite hold" on the passenger cars and he mentioned the lawsuit. As it stands, the company they are in litigation with has all the molds made to date...which equates to Branchline having not even started the project. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR Branchline Trains Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:37:29 -0500 There is NO litigation at the present time. Dennis mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com Featuring over 10,000 IN-STOCK model railroad items 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: Dennis ; PRR-Talk Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR Branchline Trains > On 3/26/02 6:02 PM, Dennis @ D & S Hobbies at (dennis@onerrave.com) wrote: > > > As of today, I have been told that the Branchline Heavyweight Passenger Cars > > and REA Reefers are still coming. There is still no firm delivery date - > > but that has been true for the last two years, Tooling appears to be an > > issue but there is no lawsuit holding it hostage. > > > > Of course, that's just my opinion based on what I've heard and I could be > > wrong. > > > Dennis is probably hearing this from his salesman. My source, last evening, > was "Howard", who identified himself as the president of both companies. He > said "indefinite hold" on the passenger cars and he mentioned the lawsuit. > As it stands, the company they are in litigation with has all the molds made > to date...which equates to Branchline having not even started the project. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:59:18 -0800 Subject: [PRR] GG-1 boilers Hi everyone, There was some discussion a few months back as to whether or not a GG-1 loco's oil-fired boiler could still produce steam and heat the train in the case of an interruption of electrical power. The prevailing opinion at the time was that the oil-fired boiler probably could not work because electrically-powered blowers and/or oil pumps would no longer function. However, I've come across strong evidence that indicates the above conclusion is not correct. While looking for something completely different (funny how that works), I found the following in a PRR employee timetable which Mark Bej generously photocopied for me a while back. The first text appears under the heading "Sleet Instructions" under the subheading "New York Division". "Boiler must be operated in manual control using stack blower approaching Trenton to permit engineman to lower pantograph." The second text appears under the heading "Examination of Pantographs - Passenger Service", subheading "Philadelphia Division". "When requested by inspectors at the above points, enginemen will lower pantographs immediately to permit qualified employes to make the inspection. Enginemen must not raise pantographs until after inspection has been made and so advised. When request to lower pantographs has been made, place boiler in manual operation immediately." ==> Boiler must be operated in manual control? ==> Place boiler in manual operation? It sure sounds to me like these two texts above imply that the boilers could CONTINUE to work, even with an electrical power interruption. No proof really, but very strong evidence as far as I can tell. No mention is made of any specific loco type. However, one of the main headings specifically alludes to "Passenger Service". One would assume that the statement was primarily aimed at the GG-1, P-5 and O-1 classes, being that these were purpose-built for this service. So the debate continues... - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Third-rail motors and boilers Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:32:24 -0500 Claus, Did you check Pennsy Power by Staufer? I think there would be BIG problems with moisture freezing steam lines at Manhattan Transfer Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claus Schlund" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:59 PM Subject: [PRR] Third-rail motors and boilers > Hi everyone, > > Just as a curiosity, moving back to the third-rail era, > does anyone know what type of steam heat boiler (if any) > was provided for the PRR DD-1 and L-5 third-rail > motors? I don't believe I've ever seen or read anything on > this topic! Perhaps there was no boiler at all, since the > third-rail runs were so short! Cars laying over at Penn > Station/NYC could simply be hooked up to house steam, > and same would have been true at Sunnyside Yard. > > Any thoughts? > > - Claus > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:26:02 -0600 Hi Matt--As far as I have been able to determine, many, but not all, N5b had the trainphone but none of the N5. There are subtle but visible differences in the two classes even without the trainphone. By far the best info to date on modeling both the N5 and N5b using the Bowser model is Ed Martin's great article in Mainline Modeler, December 1995. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AHARTPRR137@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:54:31 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Third-rail motors and boilers --part1_15e.b0ffd5b.29d29c77_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/02 10:07:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, schlund@cwnet.com writes: > Hi everyone, > > Just as a curiosity, moving back to the third-rail era, > does anyone know what type of steam heat boiler (if any) > was provided for the PRR DD-1 and L-5 third-rail > motors? I don't believe I've ever seen or read anything on > this topic! Perhaps there was no boiler at all, since the > third-rail runs were so short! Cars laying over at Penn > Station/NYC could simply be hooked up to house steam, > and same would have been true at Sunnyside Yard. > > Any thoughts? > > - Claus > > To Claus and others, The following is from an article by Frederick Westing about the DD-1 in the August 1956 issue of "Trains". "At first train-heating boilers were planned on these locomotives, but later before they went into service the decision was made to heat the cars from steam lines in Penn Station and Sunnyside with steam supplied from service stations located at those points." Andy Hart --part1_15e.b0ffd5b.29d29c77_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/02 10:07:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, schlund@cwnet.com writes:


Hi everyone,

Just as a curiosity, moving back to the third-rail era,
does anyone know what type of steam heat boiler (if any)
was provided for the PRR DD-1 and L-5 third-rail
motors? I don't believe I've ever seen or read anything on
this topic! Perhaps there was no boiler at all, since the
third-rail runs were so short! Cars laying over at Penn
Station/NYC could simply be hooked up to house steam,
and same would have been true at Sunnyside Yard.

Any thoughts?

  -  Claus


To Claus and others,

The following is from an article by Frederick Westing about the DD-1 in the August  1956 issue of "Trains".

"At first train-heating boilers were planned on these locomotives, but later before they went into service the decision was made to heat the cars from steam lines in Penn Station and Sunnyside with steam supplied from service stations located at those points."

Andy Hart
 --part1_15e.b0ffd5b.29d29c77_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AHARTPRR137@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:09:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE Hi Steve, I have a black and white photo from Wm. Nixon in my collection of N5 477027 with trainphone antennas. The photo is undated but the car is in the 1940's lettering scheme and assigned to the Central Region. The shading on the photo leads me to believe that the sides of the cupola were red and the car roof and cupola roof were black. Andy Hart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:27:39 -0600 Hi Andy--You wrote: > > I have a black and white photo from Wm. Nixon in my collection of N5 477027 > with trainphone antennas. The photo is undated but the car is in the 1940's > lettering scheme and assigned to the Central Region. The shading on the > photo leads me to believe that the sides of the cupola were red and the car > roof and cupola roof were black. > The plot thickens. I checked the Cabin Car Database at Jerry's Keystone Crossings and found 477027 listed as not having trainphone. I am not at all casting doubt on your photo, but could this have been a prototype installation before the N5b's or N5c's were built? ("Prototype" as in the first one, not as in the real ones.) I am not stuck on the idea that N5's did not have trainphone, but conflicting info is always interesting. And, yes, this is the PRR so I never say never....... Steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:32:50 -0500 powered tender? how about side rods on a diesel! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" ; "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Ready-to-Run!!! > Well if Bowser can fit in all that weight and a motor it > doesn't make sense that somebody else can't do it. All > the plastic needs to do is wrap the weight with a > detailed surface. They could also power the tender and > put a diesel type mechanism in it plus more weight. > This isn't rocket science we are talking about. > > To be exact, it was 54 cars and slipping. 54-H-21a hoppers that roll like a > > real boxcar-they have intermountain wheels on them. No offense, I expects > > an articulate to pull more than that, especially double headed. I still > > love the locomotive. I think P2K did an outstanding job, especially for the > > detail. It is nearly perfect. I'm have old mentality- I like long drags! > > > > Greg V > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 2:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in > > Ready-to-Run!!! > > > > > > > Greg sez: > > > The grades are only 1.7%. > > > > > > Um Greg, 30 cars each on a nearly 2% grade? Damn, that's pretty good! > > > > > > >As nice as the P2K HH1 is, an engine > > > >like that should pull more. > > > > > > Why? The prototype didn't pull more on that type of grade! On > > Tehatchapi, > > > the SP routinely used 4 cab forwards on a 90 car train...that's less than > > > 25 cars per loco! > > > > > > Bottom line is will it pull like a Bowser > > > > > > No, and it is physically impossible to make it do so..."Captain, I cannot > > > violate the laws of physics!" The weight of a Bowser comes in part from > > > the metal boiler...with a consequent loss in detail...you picks your > > > poison...a plastic or partly plastic loco can beat the Bowser hands down > > in > > > molded detail, but never in weight, and therefore traction. > > > > > > >I dont think an M-1a would look right pulling only 20-30 cars. Then > > > >again, not many people have the room to pull 80 cars. > > > > > > OK Greg, how many times have you seen a single HO steamer pull 80 cars on > > a > > > layout and did it really look prototypical? On most layouts the train > > > would stretch through at least three scenes and look pretty > > unprototypical. > > > Don't even bother to mention modular layouts since the complete absence of > > > curves (except corners) on most of them renders them to be completely > > > unprototypic (IMHO)! On objective in good layout design would be to limit > > > > > the amount of tangent track so that portions of your train are always > > > hidden, thus allowing you to run shorter trains while maintaining the > > > illusion of size. In fact, I would REALLY like this engine to fail to > > pull > > > 21 cars up 2%. See, I've set the train length at 20 cars w/o helpers, and > > > helpers REALLY work better if you actually need them . The best > > example > > > I've seen of this was on Larry Reynold's Horseshoe curve layout in > > > Allentown. I ran a 40 car train of hoppers over the curve with two > > 2-10-4s > > > on the point and 2 I1s on the rear...it looked HUGE and with the sound of > > > exhausts barking at both ends....WOW. You could watch the slack action > > > move in the middle of the train as the helpers picked up the back 1/3. > > > > > > of course, YMMV > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > > > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > > > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > > > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > > > > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > > Franklin > > > __ > > > / \ > > > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > > > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > > > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > > > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > > > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:33:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Branchline Clarification From: Jerry Britton Yesterday I reported litigation between Branchline Trains and the moldmaker for the future line of heavyweight passenger cars. My information came from Howard, who identified himself to me as the president of both Hobby Stores Distributing and Branchline Trains. Dennis of D & S Hobbies indicated his contact said there was no litigation. I have since received a nice e-mail from the same person Dennis spoke with. He provided a lengthy explanation and asked to keep it off list, so I will, save for a clarification to correct yesterday's statements. Is the relationship between Branchline and the mold maker continuing? Yes. Are there lawyers involved? Yes. Is there currently litigation? No. In my words, I'd say the president hastily summed up the matter saying there was "a law suit". Doesn't mean there won't be one, but there doesn't seem to be one now. Obviously they are in a "touchy state" at the moment. BTW: Comments were made on list about HSD/BL going out of business. I have not witnessed anything to that affect and do not support that rumor. Dennis spoke his mind along the same lines. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:37:41 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in I have often thought a powered tender would be a great idea. If the folks at Bowser are listening, here is a new product line opportunity. A drop in auxiliary power unit for several of the woefully under powered, but beautifully detailed, new plastic steam engines. Start with one for the Athearn USRA Mike and the Bachmann USRA mountain. Move quickly on to the Bachmann K4 and Consol. One of the tricks would be to develop a power unit with speed/voltage characteristics to match the intended steamer. The unit could also include a DCC socket. I don't think side rods on a diesel has much marketing future. There weren't many prototypes - some, but not many. "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." wrote: > powered tender? how about side rods on a diesel! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:56:52 -0500 Group, I have a steamer that is powered from the drive wheels of the tender. It is an old Model Power Unit 2-8-0 lettered for the Pennsy. Not quite Pennsy But I was young & stupid when I bought it. I does have very good running qualities for a Model Power. I don't think it is a bad idea. More room & place dor the DCC socket. Sam Vastano >From: "Andrew S. Miller" >To: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." >CC: ndbprr@att.net, PRR-Talk >Subject: Re: [PRR] A Great Day For HO Scalers -- M1a's and M1b's in >Ready-to-Run!!! >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:37:41 -0500 > >I have often thought a powered tender would be a great idea. If the folks >at >Bowser are listening, here is a new product line opportunity. A drop in >auxiliary power unit for several of the woefully under powered, but >beautifully >detailed, new plastic steam engines. Start with one for the Athearn USRA >Mike >and the Bachmann USRA mountain. Move quickly on to the Bachmann K4 and >Consol. >One of the tricks would be to develop a power unit with speed/voltage >characteristics to match the intended steamer. The unit could also >include a >DCC socket. > >I don't think side rods on a diesel has much marketing future. There >weren't >many prototypes - some, but not many. > >"Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." wrote: > > > powered tender? how about side rods on a diesel! > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ThreeButchers@cs.com Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:39:52 EST Subject: [PRR] Trail Blazer change from FOM Neil; I do not have the exact date of the Trail Blazers changeover from FOM, but we do know the following (which does provide for a narrower window).... Firstly, P85bR coaches were built by Altoona (4100-4169) and ACF (4068-4091) throughout 1947. They were never painted FOM colors and went directly into name-train service (Trail Blazer, Jeffersonian ....) Secondly, PRR FOM lettering & striping diagrams are referenced as obsolete and superseded with dates around 8/47. For photographic proof, the earliest photo I have of the Trail Blazer repainted is dated 5-2-48. The picture includes POC70R (w/ Trail Blazer markers) with P85bR #4151 in front. Hope this helps. Regards; Brian Butcher PRR 30s-50s ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Tender drives Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:46:27 +0000 It shouldn't be too difficult to run a tender drive from a drive shaft off the motor in the engine. Tyco ran the General with the motor in the tender and a drive shaft through the firebox to the engine due to the small size of the boiler. I envision a lower drive shaft that could represent the stoker screw between the engine and tender. All the tender would require is a slip universal joint for expansion on curves and a small gear tower on each truck. the rest of the tender could be a weight with a possible void for the decoder. Another idea I have presented elsewhere with little results is that the decoder connection should be in the fuel tank on diesels with a cover on the bottom like a remote control has that can just be unsnapped to drop in the decoder. No more disassembly to troubleshoot or add the decoder in the first place. Guess that is backwards thinking to those who make engines and might add a couple of cents of wire cost to the product. Just my rambling thoughts. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:30:47 -0500 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Third-rail motors and boilers >>Just as a curiosity, moving back to the third-rail era, >>does anyone know what type of steam heat boiler (if any) >>was provided for the PRR DD-1 and L-5 third-rail >>motors? >The following is from an article by Frederick Westing about the >DD-1 in the August 1956 issue of "Trains". >"At first train-heating boilers were planned on these locomotives, >but later before they went into service the decision was made to >heat the cars from steam lines in Penn Station and Sunnyside with >steam supplied from service stations located at those points." Concur. The 'roundhouse' reprints of the Loco Cyclopedias include one on heavy electric traction, ca 1919, (a treasure for old electric fanciers): the drawings show fuel tanks, etc on DD1. The recent P5 book alludes to boilers not being used. (or installed?) The DD1 enginemans book (yes.... 8)>>) makes no mention of boilers. One infers they were discussed in planning, then not installed. NOT having the steam lines hooked up made engine changed Just That Much Easier... Employee TT has specific instructions for blowing down the lines, on assumes to help avoid freezing. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Third-rail motors and boilers Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:48:33 +0000 There is no question the P5a's ( or at least some of them) had steam boliers. There is a short stubby stack at one end right behind the cab where they vented that looks like a steam engine stack. Later in their history when they were assigned to freight only duties the boiler was replaced during rebuilds with a a concrete weight to increase tractive effort. The P5's all had 72" drivers which was like trying to pull freights with E6s drive wheels. Hence the weight and the effort to try traction motors on the lead trucks to help start trains. None of which did much to improve the situation. Norm Bell > > >>Just as a curiosity, moving back to the third-rail era, > >>does anyone know what type of steam heat boiler (if any) > >>was provided for the PRR DD-1 and L-5 third-rail > >>motors? > > >The following is from an article by Frederick Westing about the > >DD-1 in the August 1956 issue of "Trains". > > >"At first train-heating boilers were planned on these locomotives, > >but later before they went into service the decision was made to > >heat the cars from steam lines in Penn Station and Sunnyside with > >steam supplied from service stations located at those points." > > Concur. > The 'roundhouse' reprints of the Loco Cyclopedias include > one on heavy electric traction, ca 1919, (a treasure for > old electric fanciers): the drawings show fuel tanks, > etc on DD1. The recent P5 book alludes to boilers > not being used. (or installed?) The DD1 enginemans book > (yes.... 8)>>) makes no mention of boilers. One infers > they were discussed in planning, then not installed. > > NOT having the steam lines hooked up made engine changed Just > That Much Easier... Employee TT has specific instructions for > blowing down the lines, on assumes to help avoid freezing. > > best > dwp > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:14:02 -0500 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 boilers Claus Schlund wrote: > Hi everyone, > There was some discussion a few months back as to whether > or not a GG-1 loco's oil-fired boiler could still produce > steam and heat the train in the case of an interruption of > electrical power. The prevailing opinion at the time was that > the oil-fired boiler probably could not work because > electrically-powered blowers and/or oil pumps would no > longer function. Discussion is nice, but: GG1/P5/P5 Modified Enginemans Handbook. Page 200 Steam Heat Apparatus. (maybe GG1 only... but P5 was somewhat similar... OK OK, had two utterly different 'boiler' systems...) Air to support combustion is provided by a MOTOR OPERATED blower. Fuel oil is delivered by a MOTOR DRIVEN pump. There is then listed 15 separate pieces of electrically operated equipment required to make the 'boiler' work. I'm not about to key in 18 pp of text, however, on P215: The fire starting operation is best accomplished after the locomotive has been prepared for service since compressed air and alternating current, are required, as well as direct current. [battery... dwp] > However, I've come across strong evidence that indicates > the above conclusion is not correct. Perhaps. Perhaps it all ran off the battery. > While looking for something completely different (funny how that > works), I found the following in a PRR employee timetable which > Mark Bej generously photocopied for me a while back. > The first text appears under the heading "Sleet Instructions" > under the subheading "New York Division". > "Boiler must be operated in manual control using stack blower > approaching Trenton to permit engineman to lower pantograph." > The second text appears under the heading "Examination of > Pantographs - Passenger Service", subheading "Philadelphia Division". > "When requested by inspectors at the above points, enginemen > will lower pantographs immediately to permit qualified > employes to make the inspection. Enginemen must not raise > pantographs until after inspection has been made and so advised. > When request to lower pantographs has been made, place boiler > in manual operation immediately." > ==> Boiler must be operated in manual control? Many pieces of equipment have maniacal controls to start or to use for maintenance. > ==> Place boiler in manual operation? cf above. > It sure sounds to me like these two texts above imply that the > boilers could CONTINUE to work, even with an electrical > power interruption. No proof really, but very strong > evidence as far as I can tell. Evidence that, for a few minutes, the 'boiler' could be in a sort of 'standby' while people were on the roof. And while doing so, be in low flame I guess it depends on what is meant by the boiler 'operating'. In manual (as noted) LOW flame, essentially no heat was available, just the burner being kept alive. > No mention is made of any specific loco type. However, one of > the main headings specifically alludes to "Passenger Service". > One would assume that the statement was primarily aimed at the > GG-1, P-5 and O-1 classes, being that these were purpose-built > for this service. O-1 lasted a very brief period of time. > So the debate continues... Manuals are wonderful things. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:17:34 -0500 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Third-rail motors and boilers ndbprr@att.net wrote: > There is no question the P5a's (or at least some of > them) had steam boliers. Concur. (sort of: some had 'steam generators' which are sort of different.) The question about (lack of) boilers was ad rem the DD1. > There is a short stubby stack at one end right behind the cab > where they vented that looks like a steam engine stack. Later in > their history when they were assigned to freight only duties the > boiler was replaced during rebuilds with a a concrete > weight to increase tractive effort. The P5's all had > 72" drivers which was like trying to pull freights with > E6s drive wheels. Hence the weight and the effort to > try traction motors on the lead trucks to help start > trains. None of which did much to improve the situation. >Norm Bell ================================================================== > > >>Just as a curiosity, moving back to the third-rail era, > > >>does anyone know what type of steam heat boiler (if any) > > >>was provided for the PRR DD-1 and L-5 third-rail > > >>motors? > > > > >The following is from an article by Frederick Westing about the > > >DD-1 in the August 1956 issue of "Trains". > > > > >"At first train-heating boilers were planned on these locomotives, > > >but later before they went into service the decision was made to > > >heat the cars from steam lines in Penn Station and Sunnyside with > > >steam supplied from service stations located at those points." > > > > Concur. > > The 'roundhouse' reprints of the Loco Cyclopedias include > > one on heavy electric traction, ca 1919, (a treasure for > > old electric fanciers): the drawings show fuel tanks, > > etc on DD1. The recent P5 book alludes to boilers > > not being used. (or installed?) The DD1 enginemans book > > (yes.... 8)>>) makes no mention of boilers. One infers > > they were discussed in planning, then not installed. > > > > NOT having the steam lines hooked up made engine changed Just > > That Much Easier... Employee TT has specific instructions for > > blowing down the lines, on assumes to help avoid freezing. > > > > best > > dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:28:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender drives Both IHC (Rivarossi?) and Bachmann have 4-4-0s with tender drive. The IHC is otherwise a POS, but the drive is not the problem. The Bachmann runs reasonably well all around, given the price range. Obviously neither pulled much, but that again wasn't a function of the drive. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:20:22 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender drives From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Y'know, now that this thread has progressed, I remember we had two engines by (I think) Rivarossi back in the early 70's that ran on our Christmas platform at home that had the motor in the tender and a driveshaft with a universal joint to the engine. These were really smooth runners. The only minor downside was that the drivers tended to work back and forth and made a clicking sound. That and that the engine were not well weighted so they did not pull much. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- >From: ndbprr@att.net >To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk) >Subject: [PRR] Tender drives >Date: Wed, 27 Mar, 2002, 8:46 > > It shouldn't be too difficult to run a tender drive from > a drive shaft off the motor in the engine. Tyco ran the > General with the motor in the tender and a drive shaft > through the firebox to the engine due to the small size > of the boiler. I envision a lower drive shaft that > could represent the stoker screw between the engine and > tender. All the tender would require is a slip > universal joint for expansion on curves and a small gear > tower on each truck. the rest of the tender could be a > weight with a possible void for the decoder. > Another idea I have presented elsewhere with little > results is that the decoder connection should be in the > fuel tank on diesels with a cover on the bottom like a > remote control has that can just be unsnapped to drop in > the decoder. No more disassembly to troubleshoot or add > the decoder in the first place. Guess that is backwards > thinking to those who make engines and might add a > couple of cents of wire cost to the product. Just my > rambling thoughts. Norm Bell > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Tender drives Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:57:19 -0500 Listers, Speaking of tender drives: I was reading through Model Railroad Planning 2002 and on page 82 Rich Weyand states that on his N-scale N&W he wanted to replicate the fact that one (Con-cor) Y6B could outpull 4 Geeps. However it only could match 2 Geeps. Solution: A Kato RSC-2 diesel drive in the tender and another in the water tender. The mechanisms were tuned to the Y6B using resistors and diodes. Brass weights were added. Set up it will out pull 5 four axle n-scale diesels!!! Didn't someone yesterday suggest Bowser do this for Bachman and Lifelike engines. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AHARTPRR137@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:05:30 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE --part1_167.b22762d.29d363ea_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/02 11:37:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, steveh@dotstar.net writes: > Hi Andy--You wrote: > > > > I have a black and white photo from Wm. Nixon in my collection of N5 > 477027 > > with trainphone antennas. The photo is undated but the car is in the > 1940's > > lettering scheme and assigned to the Central Region. The shading on the > > photo leads me to believe that the sides of the cupola were red and the > car > > roof and cupola roof were black. > > > The plot thickens. I checked the Cabin Car Database at Jerry's Keystone > Crossings and found 477027 listed as not having trainphone. I am not at > all > casting doubt on your photo, but could this have been a prototype > installation before the N5b's or N5c's were built? ("Prototype" as in the > first one, not as in the real ones.) I am not stuck on the idea that N5's > did not have trainphone, but conflicting info is always interesting. And, > yes, this is the PRR so I never say never....... > > Steve > Hi Steve, N5 Cabin 477027 shown in the photo appears to be in service on a train. It has marker lamps on it and ahead of it is N5c 477843 Central Region. The N5c has a similar lettering arrangement and paint scheme. It has no antennas. The N5 appears to have a repack date of 4-?-54. The cabins look like they are sitting on a passing siding. They may be on the rear of a train but they are the only cars visible in the photo. The scenery in the background is typical flat midwestern farm land. The antennas look like the standard arrangement found on most PRR cabins which had trainphones. Andy Hart --part1_167.b22762d.29d363ea_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/02 11:37:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, steveh@dotstar.net writes:


Hi Andy--You wrote:
>
> I have a black and white photo from Wm. Nixon in my collection of N5
477027
> with trainphone antennas.  The photo is undated but the car is in the
1940's
> lettering scheme and assigned to the Central Region.  The shading on the
> photo leads me to believe that the sides of the cupola were red and the
car
> roof and cupola roof were black.
>
The plot thickens.  I checked the Cabin Car Database at Jerry's Keystone
Crossings and found 477027 listed as not having trainphone.  I am not at all
casting doubt on your photo, but could this have been a prototype
installation before the N5b's or N5c's were built? ("Prototype" as in the
first one, not as in the real ones.)  I am not stuck on the idea that N5's
did not have trainphone, but conflicting info is always interesting.  And,
yes, this is the PRR so I never say never.......

Steve

Hi Steve,

N5 Cabin 477027 shown in the photo appears to be in service on a train.  It has marker lamps on it and ahead of it is N5c 477843 Central Region.  The N5c has a similar lettering arrangement and paint scheme.  It has no antennas.  The N5 appears to have a repack date of 4-?-54.  The cabins look like they are sitting on a passing siding.  They may be on the rear of a train but they are the only cars visible in the photo.  The scenery in the background is typical flat midwestern farm land.  The antennas look like the standard arrangement found on most PRR cabins which had trainphones.

Andy Hart
 --part1_167.b22762d.29d363ea_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:12:31 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01F0_01C1D588.ABA0DF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Andy--Now the plot gets really thick. 1954 is my magic year. Gary = Mittner and I have been chatting off list. Here was my message to Gary: Hi Gary--The photo apparently shows 477027 was assigned to Central = Region. The database shows it was assigned to Pitcairn, so that is a match. I = agree the equipment was removed between the time of the photo and the = recording of the data on Jerry's site, but the question is why? And more = particularly for me modeling in 1954 were there more N5's with trainphone. = Trainphone installation in 477027 must have been interesting. Of course the = antenna stuff is obvious in the photo, but what about the electronics? Remember there was a special compartment on the N5b's on the stove side at the = short end. So where did they put 477027's electronic gear? Strapped to theconductor's desk? Strapped to the floor? Lots of questions just because of one old photo....... Andy--In your photo which side of 477027 is visible? Can you see an = equipment bay comparable to the way N5b's were equipped? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_01F0_01C1D588.ABA0DF80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Andy--Now the plot gets really = thick. 1954=20 is my magic year.  Gary Mittner and I have been chatting off=20 list.  Here was my message to Gary:
 
Hi Gary--The photo apparently shows 477027 was assigned to Central=20 Region.
The database shows it was assigned to Pitcairn, so that is a=20 match.  I agree
the equipment was removed between the time of = the photo=20 and the recording of
the data on Jerry's site, but the question is = why? =20 And more particularly
for me modeling in 1954 were there more N5's = with=20 trainphone.  Trainphone
installation in 477027 must have been=20 interesting.  Of course the antenna
stuff is obvious in the = photo, but=20 what about the electronics?  Remember
there was a special = compartment on=20 the N5b's on the stove side at the short
end.  So where did they = put=20 477027's electronic gear?  Strapped to
theconductor's desk? = Strapped to=20 the floor?

Lots of questions just because of one old=20 photo.......

Andy--In your photo = which side of=20 477027 is visible?  Can you see an equipment bay comparable to the = way=20 N5b's were equipped?

Steve=20 Hoxie
Pensacola=20 FL
------=_NextPart_000_01F0_01C1D588.ABA0DF80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:00:14 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Tender Drives I too am old enough to remember the AHM 4-4-0 tender drive locos. These looked nice and pulled the appropriate number of cars for that era, around 4 or 5. I know this discussion is basically a pros and cons issue so take my opinion as such. Being a person that likes DCC and Sound and also a person that understands that the tender is the only logical place for this electronic equipment if the loco is to have any weight, a motor in the tender would make a loco almost impossible to have sound and DCC components unless the tender was one of the tenders from a PRR Q2. Let's leave the motors in the loco and "selectively compress" our trains. I too operate on Larry Reynold's layout and a train of 25 cars on the average looks great with double-headed head-end power plus helpers. I understand how with N scale, longer trains are needed simply to make them visible to the naked eye (INCOMING !!!) Just a Joke friends. I will simply go underground until the fallout stops. Remember, model railroading is fun. Regards, Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:30:31 -0500 Greg, I would like a copy. Will you be able to get the list a copy of Gary Spear's upcoming April 6 talk on "Converting an AHM/Rivarossi Mountain View/Tower View observation car into a different observation" Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. [mailto:gregv@NetReach.Net] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:31 PM To: LINKM@timken.com; PRR-TALK@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE LINKM- The PRRTHS Philadelphia Chpt last year did a modeling session on N-5c cabins, how to superdetail them, painting them, and a list of all the parts needed from each different manufacturer. If you are interested, I can get it to you. Let me know. Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:50 AM Subject: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE > > List: Can anyone direct me to photos of an N-5 caboose with trainphone antenna > e? I have a bowser N-5c with trainphone, but was wondering what the arrangemen > t looks like on a plain old N-5. Also, a question for the Lines West fellows: > what is the most likely caboose to be found in say Crestline in 1948, and it's > paint scheme? A boswer western region N-5? What a great place to come for inf > ormation! Thanks! Matt Link > > > ********************************************************************** > This message and any attachments are intended for the > individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this > communication to others; also please notify the sender by > replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. > > The Timken Company > ********************************************************************** > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 02 15:26:15 EST From: LINKM@timken.com Subject: [PRR] Welded tender List: If a person was to take a bowser long haul tender with 8 wheel trucks, t hen sand off all of the molded on rivets, how close would he get to having one of those welded tenders found behind Q's, and J's, and later M-1a's? For thos e who can see one HO scale foot from three full size feet away, I'm not too wor ried about slight differences, as long as the overall appearance is OK. Some o f you listmembers with bowser long-haul tenders and brass welded tenders, what do you think? Thank you! M.L. ********************************************************************** This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company ********************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:36:01 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits Hi Gang, The discussion regarding the Broadway Limited M1a/M1b models got me thinking, and I had the following questions (mostly 'cause I don't have a Middle Division ETT)... 1) What were the ruling grades on the Middle Division? 2) What were the tonnage limits for the M1a (or M1b) on the Middle Division? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:26:01 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender drives Chris, It was I. My suggestion was that the most likely first candidate should be the Athearn USRA Mike. And the original suggestion was for an AUXILIARY tender drive. That is, leave the loco drive intact and put a motor and diesel-like gear towers in the tender so that the tender becomes an additional power source. The thread got convoluted (as almost all threads do) into a discussion of tender mounted motors for an engine drive, an idea that has been tried in several small commercial models. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > Listers, > > Speaking of tender drives: I was reading through Model Railroad Planning > 2002 and on page 82 Rich Weyand states that on his N-scale N&W he wanted to > replicate the fact that one (Con-cor) Y6B could outpull 4 Geeps. However it > only could match 2 Geeps. Solution: A Kato RSC-2 diesel drive in the tender > and another in the water tender. The mechanisms were tuned to the Y6B using > resistors and diodes. Brass weights were added. Set up it will out pull 5 > four axle n-scale diesels!!! > > Didn't someone yesterday suggest Bowser do this for Bachman and Lifelike > engines. > > Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Walther's REA cars Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:47:16 -0500 Saw the Rea cars. Which color would be more appropriate for 1954-58. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Tender drives Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:51:16 -0500 Andy, Well it sounds like this guy followed your idea. His N-scale Y6B only unpowered wheels are the lead and trailing trucks. The (n-scale)engine and 2 tenders weight 1lb! Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:26 PM To: Chany, Christopher Cc: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender drives Chris, It was I. My suggestion was that the most likely first candidate should be the Athearn USRA Mike. And the original suggestion was for an AUXILIARY tender drive. That is, leave the loco drive intact and put a motor and diesel-like gear towers in the tender so that the tender becomes an additional power source. The thread got convoluted (as almost all threads do) into a discussion of tender mounted motors for an engine drive, an idea that has been tried in several small commercial models. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > Listers, > > Speaking of tender drives: I was reading through Model Railroad Planning > 2002 and on page 82 Rich Weyand states that on his N-scale N&W he wanted to > replicate the fact that one (Con-cor) Y6B could outpull 4 Geeps. However it > only could match 2 Geeps. Solution: A Kato RSC-2 diesel drive in the tender > and another in the water tender. The mechanisms were tuned to the Y6B using > resistors and diodes. Brass weights were added. Set up it will out pull 5 > four axle n-scale diesels!!! > > Didn't someone yesterday suggest Bowser do this for Bachman and Lifelike > engines. > > Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:53:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits From: Jerry Britton On 3/27/02 3:36 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > The discussion regarding the Broadway Limited M1a/M1b models got me > thinking, and I had the following questions (mostly 'cause I don't have a > Middle Division ETT)... > > 1) What were the ruling grades on the Middle Division? > 2) What were the tonnage limits for the M1a (or M1b) on the Middle Division? > Just looked at an April 1955 ETT for the Middle Division. Doesn't look like this is the right document to get the info you are looking for. The ETT does list locomotive restrictions, in terms of what classes can/can't go on specific branches/main lines. However, the ETT does not seem to show maximum tonnage a specific locomotive is allowed to pull. Perhaps this is in a Form 109 (which I do not have on hand) or an MP 229 (is that the right name for the form that shows loco assignments?). As for the ruling grade, this information would be on a Track Chart. I don't have one posted for the Middle Division, but I have one for the Pittsburgh Division from 1958 on Keystone Crossings in PDF format. This will show you how they are labeled. Asking forgiveness in advance if I am incorrect. I am not saying the above is gospel! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:43:43 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walther's REA cars Hunter Green. Happy hunting ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > Saw the Rea cars. Which color would be more appropriate for 1954-58. > > Chris Chany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:54:34 -0500 Whatever info Gary will have at the meeting, I will pick up. Keep posted after April 6th. Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:30 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE > Greg, > > I would like a copy. Will you be able to get the list a copy of Gary > Spear's upcoming April 6 talk on "Converting an AHM/Rivarossi Mountain > View/Tower View observation car into a different observation" > > Chris Chany > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. [mailto:gregv@NetReach.Net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:31 PM > To: LINKM@timken.com; PRR-TALK@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE > > > LINKM- > The PRRTHS Philadelphia Chpt last year did a modeling session on N-5c > cabins, how to superdetail them, painting them, and a list of all the parts > needed from each different manufacturer. If you are interested, I can get > it to you. Let me know. > Greg V > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:50 AM > Subject: [PRR] N-5 TRAINPHONE > > > > > > List: Can anyone direct me to photos of an N-5 caboose with trainphone > antenna > > e? I have a bowser N-5c with trainphone, but was wondering what the > arrangemen > > t looks like on a plain old N-5. Also, a question for the Lines West > fellows: > > what is the most likely caboose to be found in say Crestline in 1948, and > it's > > paint scheme? A boswer western region N-5? What a great place to come > for inf > > ormation! Thanks! Matt Link > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > This message and any attachments are intended for the > > individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended > > recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this > > communication to others; also please notify the sender by > > replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. > > > > The Timken Company > > ********************************************************************** > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:05:26 -0500 Bruce- M1a tonnage westbound was rated at 4,200. Eastbound symbol trains were 5,000. Coal drags up to 11,000. Westbound initial 108 miles level to 0.3% to Spruce Creek, where on a .47% began. At Tyrone, mp 116.6, grade increased to .51% for the last 10.2 miles to the beginning of Altoona yard complex at ANTIS tower. Many curves limited speed to 40mph on the western end where the mountains closed in on the main line(Classic Power # 8 - M1 Dual Service Mountains). Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." To: Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:36 PM Subject: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits > Hi Gang, > > The discussion regarding the Broadway Limited M1a/M1b models got me > thinking, and I had the following questions (mostly 'cause I don't have a > Middle Division ETT)... > > 1) What were the ruling grades on the Middle Division? > 2) What were the tonnage limits for the M1a (or M1b) on the Middle Division? > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Tender drives Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:09:46 -0600 I believe a lot of the European engines are designed with tender drives, such as Marklin, etc. -----Original Message----- From: Donald E. Harper, Jr [mailto:harperd@tamug.tamu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:20 AM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender drives Y'know, now that this thread has progressed, I remember we had two engines by (I think) Rivarossi back in the early 70's that ran on our Christmas platform at home that had the motor in the tender and a driveshaft with a universal joint to the engine. These were really smooth runners. The only minor downside was that the drivers tended to work back and forth and made a clicking sound. That and that the engine were not well weighted so they did not pull much. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- >From: ndbprr@att.net >To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk) >Subject: [PRR] Tender drives >Date: Wed, 27 Mar, 2002, 8:46 > > It shouldn't be too difficult to run a tender drive from > a drive shaft off the motor in the engine. Tyco ran the > General with the motor in the tender and a drive shaft > through the firebox to the engine due to the small size > of the boiler. I envision a lower drive shaft that > could represent the stoker screw between the engine and > tender. All the tender would require is a slip > universal joint for expansion on curves and a small gear > tower on each truck. the rest of the tender could be a > weight with a possible void for the decoder. > Another idea I have presented elsewhere with little > results is that the decoder connection should be in the > fuel tank on diesels with a cover on the bottom like a > remote control has that can just be unsnapped to drop in > the decoder. No more disassembly to troubleshoot or add > the decoder in the first place. Guess that is backwards > thinking to those who make engines and might add a > couple of cents of wire cost to the product. Just my > rambling thoughts. Norm Bell > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:19:03 -0500 For anyone as interested in M1 locomotives as I am, I advise you to grab a look at the 1990 N.J International Inc. publication on the M1. It is called "Pennsylvania M1 Dual Service Mountains" by Bert Pennypacker. An awesome book looking at the M1 in detail, why they were designed, and how efficient they truely were. Also, evanthough they were at home on the middle division, they were fluent throughout the entire system. Food for thought: The M1's were not permitted over the Delair Bridge due to weight restrictions. Everytime I drive over the Delaware River on the Bettsy Ross Bridge along side the Delair Bridge, I can't imagine a weight restriction. They were enormous engines for their class. M1s would seen side by side at Coatesville with L1's. The M1s would then take the Trenton Cut Off and L1s would take divisional runs between Enola and Camden. Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." To: Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:36 PM Subject: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits > Hi Gang, > > The discussion regarding the Broadway Limited M1a/M1b models got me > thinking, and I had the following questions (mostly 'cause I don't have a > Middle Division ETT)... > > 1) What were the ruling grades on the Middle Division? > 2) What were the tonnage limits for the M1a (or M1b) on the Middle Division? > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender drives Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:43:03 -0500 Yes, I still have mine, an Indiana Harbor Belt 0-8-0 and an Italian railways light 2-8-0, lettered like the Sante Fe locos. Both engines used the same tender with Rivarosi's big 3 pole motor inside. They were connected to the engine with a rubber tube in lieu of a universal joint. As they got older the tube hardened causing the loco to jump the track on curves and then eventually break the tube. I replaced them with surgical grade neoprene and they work fine and are extremely flexible. The 280 has a half weight in the boiler so I filled the other half with #8 bird shot and it pulls great - for a light engine - on my European prototype railroad. The IHB can take a lot of weight to make it a good puller too. There were several articles in MR magazine on kitbashing these locos into other types of locos, but alas, nothing Pennsy. At one time I had thought of making a PRR C-1 out of the IHB but never got around to it. Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender drives > Y'know, now that this thread has progressed, I remember we had two engines > by (I think) Rivarossi back in the early 70's that ran on our Christmas > platform at home that had the motor in the tender and a driveshaft with a > universal joint to the engine. These were really smooth runners. The only > minor downside was that the drivers tended to work back and forth and made a > clicking sound. That and that the engine were not well weighted so they > did not pull much. > > > Don Harper > Texas A&M Marine Lab > 5007 Avenue U > Galveston, TX 77551 > 409/740-4540 > > > ---------- > >From: ndbprr@att.net > >To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk) > >Subject: [PRR] Tender drives > >Date: Wed, 27 Mar, 2002, 8:46 > > > > > It shouldn't be too difficult to run a tender drive from > > a drive shaft off the motor in the engine. Tyco ran the > > General with the motor in the tender and a drive shaft > > through the firebox to the engine due to the small size > > of the boiler. I envision a lower drive shaft that > > could represent the stoker screw between the engine and > > tender. All the tender would require is a slip > > universal joint for expansion on curves and a small gear > > tower on each truck. the rest of the tender could be a > > weight with a possible void for the decoder. > > Another idea I have presented elsewhere with little > > results is that the decoder connection should be in the > > fuel tank on diesels with a cover on the bottom like a > > remote control has that can just be unsnapped to drop in > > the decoder. No more disassembly to troubleshoot or add > > the decoder in the first place. Guess that is backwards > > thinking to those who make engines and might add a > > couple of cents of wire cost to the product. Just my > > rambling thoughts. Norm Bell > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Welded tender Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:38:02 -0600 M. L.wrote-- > > List: If a person was to take a bowser long haul tender with 8 wheel trucks, t > hen sand off all of the molded on rivets, how close would he get to having one > of those welded tenders found behind Q's, and J's, and later M-1a's? For thos > e who can see one HO scale foot from three full size feet away, I'm not too wor > ried about slight differences, as long as the overall appearance is OK. > You would not be totally accurate, but fairly close for welded 210Fxx tenders used behind all J's, some I1's, some M1's, and some M1a/b's. But not behind Q's, which had the smaller 180F84 class. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "dfc PRR 7002" Subject: Re: [PRR] Welded tender Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 05:56:33 -0500 Has anyone been to the William Rau photography exhibit in Philadelphia? I just acquired the new book on the subject and canot wait to see the larger versions of these 19th century images. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:39:41 +0100 From: Burkhard Sanner Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender drives Tender drives are a standard feature here in Europe, introduced around 1970 by Fleischmann for a German 0-8-0 freight engine type 55. Fleischmann, Roco, Liliput (today with Bachmann), Trix, later Rivarossi and Jouef (France) adopted this technology. The main reason might be the smaller size of the European engines, with resulting problems in placing a powerful motor. Boiler and firebox do not provide much space, and thus in former European HO steam engines usually the whole cab was filled with the motor. Btw., Fleischmann and Trix did sell "US"-versions of their engines in the 60s/70s, adding some US-features andcolours to make a German class 01 Pacific represent a UP engine, and the same with the class 41 Mikado (Minitrix did this for the N-scalers much longer). Maerklin always kept the motor in the loco, with the resulting space problems. There are two philosophies: - Accurate appearance of the engine, with fine details on the boiler and the drivers; this required tender motors. - Accurate operation, i.e. the drivers are really used as "drivers", and a stalled engine will show slipping drivers as the prototype. In recent years, Roco started to combine both principles, keeping the motor in the tender and driving some of the tender wheels, but also with a shaft and universal joint under the cab to power the drivers. A gear between shaft and drivers is required to synchronize the different wheel rotation speed between large drivers and small tender wheels, powered from the same motor. The first engine powered that way was a German class 50 decapod. It is now a kind of standard on all new Roco steamers (beside the USRA Mallet, of course), combining the advantages of both systems (room for the motor in the tender, powered drivers, and very good pulling power). A drawback is the problem if you want to separate engine and tender. Conclusion: For small and medium size engines, like Genesis USRA light Mikado, a tender motor (with an additional drive train to power the drivers) would be the better option. For larger engines, and those with large fireboxes and large diameter boilers as most of the PRR steam engines (K4, L1, M1, I1, J1 etc.), a motor in the engine driving only the drivers is preferable. It is fun to see an engine struggling upgrade, like the prototype, with slipping drivers and in need for a helper. At least it is fun for somebody who just has to control a model railway throttle, and not to keep the real thing going. Happy rails, Burkhard Sanner --- Dr. Burkhard Sanner Lahnau, Germany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:12:24 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Welded tender I used to work in a hobby shop in Allentown called Bloch's Hobby Shop. While I worked there I got to know the fellow that did the painting. One day we were talking and I noticed a box of parts with a brass boiler and I asked what it was. He told me a guy had dumped it with a bunch of equipment in a trade. I looked at it and it was a pretty good boiler of a PRR J1a. I asked him if he would sell it and he told me to take it. He didn't know if it was all there. When I got home I took all of the parts out of the box and started to assemble the model. After about 3 hours, I had a complete scratch-built PRR J1. It used a Bowser tender with all of the rivets filed off. The only error was the tender had six wheel trucks instead of eight wheel trucks. The tender gave the correct "feel" for the J1 but the differences were noticable. The J1 tender had a large brakeman's shanty. It also had different flaring on the coal bunker sides. But over-all the tender looked acceptable behind the locomotive. Several years later I purchased a box of old Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman magazines. In the May 1958 issue, was an article on how to build a PRR J1, complete with a picture of the very loco I had. I still have the loco. It's a bit worse for wear since it is almost 50 years old but I could very easily reassemble it and put it back in service with my other brass J1. The loco served on my layout in Harrisburg for several years before I moved. It has since been "stored servicable" in my layout room. If you are not into counting rivets, the Bowser tender with eight wheel trucks would make a good representation of the J1's tender. It won't be 100% accurate but it could be servicable. Regards, Nick Kulp List: If a person was to take a bowser long haul tender with 8 wheel trucks, t hen sand off all of the molded on rivets, how close would he get to having one of those welded tenders found behind Q's, and J's, and later M-1a's? For thos e who can see one HO scale foot from three full size feet away, I'm not too wor ried about slight differences, as long as the overall appearance is OK. Some o f you listmembers with bowser long-haul tenders and brass welded tenders, what do you think? Thank you! M.L. http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Turntable Question Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:31:57 +0000 PRR-Gize: I am planning on finishing the trackwork portion of my layour this year. One of the items to be done is the turntable ans roundhouse. I am looking for a 16" turntable and as far as I know, Bowser is the only manufacturer. Has anyone had experience with the Bowser turntables? Are they good or do they have any problems? There is another company called Diamond Scale Products; they have made turntables in the past. Are they still in business? Walthers used to carry them but not anymore. At any rate, I would be looking for a 16 inch turntable. Any information that you can provide me would be greatly appreciated. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:42:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Turntable Question From: Jerry Britton On 3/28/02 8:31 AM, Ted Andrews (ted_andrews@msn.com) wrote: > I am planning on finishing the trackwork portion of my layour this year. One > of the items to be done is the turntable ans roundhouse. I am looking for a > 16" turntable and as far as I know, Bowser is the only manufacturer. Has > anyone had experience with the Bowser turntables? Are they good or do they > have any problems? > > There is another company called Diamond Scale Products; they have made > turntables in the past. Are they still in business? Walthers used to carry > them but not anymore. > > At any rate, I would be looking for a 16 inch turntable. Any information > that you can provide me would be greatly appreciated. > Memory tells me that the Bowser turntables actually are the Diamond Scale turntables. I don't know for sure. Unlike other Bowser products, Bowser does not wholesale their turntables, perhaps another indication that it is really not their product. The fact that Walthers no longer offers them is probably due to a less than "standard" wholesale discount, which Walthers spurns. This may also explain why Bowser does not offer them wholesale. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:52:17 EST Subject: [PRR] Turntable question In a message dated 3/28/02 7:39:26 AM Central Standard Time, ted_andrews@msn.com writes: << There is another company called Diamond Scale Products; they have made turntables in the past. Are they still in business? Walthers used to carry them but not anymore. >> The business was sold. The last contact I have is: Diamond Scale Construction 3742 West Anderson Drive Glendale, AZ 85308 (phone) 602 504 8589 (e-mail) newolfe@compuserve.com I don't know how active the new owner is. The last production from the old owner was just slightly better than an Arbour J-1. That is, be prepared to fuss and fit. Principal problem was that the center holes were not "center" holes, but I have also heard of problems with the drive mechanism, though the latter two problems can be related. In any case, you might consider contacting the new owner for new production, but do not buy an old one off a hobby shop shelf (sorry any dealers out there, but that's the fact, Jack). They do make a nice looking table. Our club has an 18 inch version. Bob Zoeller Bayside, WI ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:53:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Turntable Question Ted, Of the 2 companies you mentioned, Diamond Scale is by far the best. Might be harder (and expensive) to put in but the looks are unbelievable. I have one but never built it. No place to put it yet. They are still available from someone in Arizona. They come in different sizes. I think mine is the 105' Girder. They make different lengths and styles. A club that I visit recently sold theirs because after the move they no longer needed it. They liked it.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:29:03 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Turntable Question From: prrq2 Ted, I have built the Diamond Scale turntable, the 120' version about 5 years ago and "Pennsyfied" it. This is when they were made by the original owner of the company. As Bob Zoeller mentioned, the center hole wasn't a center hole. It was fairly easy to sand the pit so the bridge would make a clean 360 rotation. Yep, it is not the easiest kit to assemble, but the results are pretty good. I'll send you a photo of it off list. -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ > From: "Ted Andrews" > Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:31:57 +0000 > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Turntable Question > > PRR-Gize: > > I am planning on finishing the trackwork portion of my layour this year. One > of the items to be done is the turntable ans roundhouse. I am looking for a > 16" turntable and as far as I know, Bowser is the only manufacturer. Has > anyone had experience with the Bowser turntables? Are they good or do they > have any problems? > > There is another company called Diamond Scale Products; they have made > turntables in the past. Are they still in business? Walthers used to carry > them but not anymore. > > At any rate, I would be looking for a 16 inch turntable. Any information > that you can provide me would be greatly appreciated. > > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:32:53 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits Greg, Thanks! So, on the Middle Division, it looks like an 80 car train of 50 ton cars or 60 70 ton cars would be reasonable, ...what I don't understand is the difference between coal drags and symbol trains...is it related to speed? (That is that the symbol train needs to average a much higher speed and therefore commits more HP to speed than to tonnage). If that's the case...how many loaded H21's is 11,000 tons? (Dang, that's a BIG train!) OK, so what are the limits for an M1 with a bigger grade, say around 2%? Happy Rails Bruce >Bruce- > >M1a tonnage westbound was rated at 4,200. Eastbound symbol trains were >5,000. Coal drags up to 11,000. Westbound initial 108 miles level to 0.3% >to Spruce Creek, where on a .47% began. At Tyrone, mp 116.6, grade >increased to .51% for the last 10.2 miles to the beginning of Altoona yard >complex at ANTIS tower. Many curves limited speed to 40mph on the western >end where the mountains closed in on the main line(Classic Power # 8 - M1 >Dual Service Mountains). > >Greg V > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." >To: >Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:36 PM >Subject: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits > > >> Hi Gang, >> >> The discussion regarding the Broadway Limited M1a/M1b models got me >> thinking, and I had the following questions (mostly 'cause I don't have a >> Middle Division ETT)... >> >> 1) What were the ruling grades on the Middle Division? >> 2) What were the tonnage limits for the M1a (or M1b) on the Middle >Division? >> >> Happy Rails >> Bruce >> >> Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >> Scott-Ritchey Research Center >> 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >> http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ >> >> "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin >Franklin >> __ >> / \ >> __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ >> |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | >> | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| >> |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| >> | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >> >> Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Welded tender Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:42:52 -0500 I am going next week. I heard the book is very well done. I would not expect anything less of The University of Penn Press. Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: "dfc PRR 7002" To: Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:56 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Welded tender > > Has anyone been to the William Rau photography exhibit in Philadelphia? I > just acquired the new book on the subject and canot wait to see the larger > versions of these 19th century images. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Turntable Question Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:47:45 -0500 Goto www.Bowser-trains.com They are good running turntables. We have 3 on our club layout. Work everytime. Have been working for years. Greg V. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Andrews" To: Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:31 AM Subject: [PRR] Turntable Question > PRR-Gize: > > I am planning on finishing the trackwork portion of my layour this year. One > of the items to be done is the turntable ans roundhouse. I am looking for a > 16" turntable and as far as I know, Bowser is the only manufacturer. Has > anyone had experience with the Bowser turntables? Are they good or do they > have any problems? > > There is another company called Diamond Scale Products; they have made > turntables in the past. Are they still in business? Walthers used to carry > them but not anymore. > > At any rate, I would be looking for a 16 inch turntable. Any information > that you can provide me would be greatly appreciated. > > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:52:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits From: Jerry Britton On 3/28/02 9:32 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > Thanks! So, on the Middle Division, it looks like an 80 car train of 50 > ton cars or 60 70 ton cars would be reasonable, ...what I don't understand > is the difference between coal drags and symbol trains...is it related to > speed? Symbol trains are regularly scheduled freight trains between point A and point B, perhaps with connections. Mineral trains (coal, ore, their empties, etc.) ran as they became ready and could be put onto the system without blocking scheduled symbol and/or passenger trains. This is my understanding. Supporting this is the fact that ETT's only list symbol and passenger trains...no mineral trains! > (That is that the symbol train needs to average a much higher speed > and therefore commits more HP to speed than to tonnage). If that's the > case...how many loaded H21's is 11,000 tons? (Dang, that's a BIG train!) According to a tracing on Rob's site, an H21a has a capacity of 140,000 pounds (70 tons). The car itself weights 51,200 pounds (25.6 tons). In round numbers, that's 100 tons per car. Therefore, an 11,000 ton train of H21a's would be 110 cars. > > OK, so what are the limits for an M1 with a bigger grade, say around 2%? > You also need to consider that while a single M1 may be able to pull xx cars on up to a 2% grade, that doesn't mean that the same single M1 can get the train moving from a dead stop. And it certainly would not be worthwhile to use a booster to get started and then drop it, as block signals along the way would stop the train again. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:55:29 +0000 If memory serves me correctly isn't horseshoe curve around 1.7-1.9%? How trains were pwoered on the curve would be a pretty good indication of tonnage ratings barring any information that lists ratings for the curve. Norm Bell > Greg, > > Thanks! So, on the Middle Division, it looks like an 80 car train of 50 > ton cars or 60 70 ton cars would be reasonable, ...what I don't understand > is the difference between coal drags and symbol trains...is it related to > speed? (That is that the symbol train needs to average a much higher speed > and therefore commits more HP to speed than to tonnage). If that's the > case...how many loaded H21's is 11,000 tons? (Dang, that's a BIG train!) > > OK, so what are the limits for an M1 with a bigger grade, say around 2%? > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > >Bruce- > > > >M1a tonnage westbound was rated at 4,200. Eastbound symbol trains were > >5,000. Coal drags up to 11,000. Westbound initial 108 miles level to 0.3% > >to Spruce Creek, where on a .47% began. At Tyrone, mp 116.6, grade > >increased to .51% for the last 10.2 miles to the beginning of Altoona yard > >complex at ANTIS tower. Many curves limited speed to 40mph on the western > >end where the mountains closed in on the main line(Classic Power # 8 - M1 > >Dual Service Mountains). > > > >Greg V > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:36 PM > >Subject: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits > > > > > >> Hi Gang, > >> > >> The discussion regarding the Broadway Limited M1a/M1b models got me > >> thinking, and I had the following questions (mostly 'cause I don't have a > >> Middle Division ETT)... > >> > >> 1) What were the ruling grades on the Middle Division? > >> 2) What were the tonnage limits for the M1a (or M1b) on the Middle > >Division? > >> > >> Happy Rails > >> Bruce > >> > >> Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > >> Scott-Ritchey Research Center > >> 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > >> http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > >> > >> "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > >Franklin > >> __ > >> / \ > >> __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > >> |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > >> | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > >> |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > >> | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > >> > >> > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > >> > >> > > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:56:03 -0500 Well said Jerry. What does EET stand for? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Bruce Smith" ; "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits > On 3/28/02 9:32 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) > wrote: > > > Thanks! So, on the Middle Division, it looks like an 80 car train of 50 > > ton cars or 60 70 ton cars would be reasonable, ...what I don't understand > > is the difference between coal drags and symbol trains...is it related to > > speed? > > Symbol trains are regularly scheduled freight trains between point A and > point B, perhaps with connections. > > Mineral trains (coal, ore, their empties, etc.) ran as they became ready and > could be put onto the system without blocking scheduled symbol and/or > passenger trains. > > This is my understanding. Supporting this is the fact that ETT's only list > symbol and passenger trains...no mineral trains! > > > (That is that the symbol train needs to average a much higher speed > > and therefore commits more HP to speed than to tonnage). If that's the > > case...how many loaded H21's is 11,000 tons? (Dang, that's a BIG train!) > > According to a tracing on Rob's site, an H21a has a capacity of 140,000 > pounds (70 tons). The car itself weights 51,200 pounds (25.6 tons). In round > numbers, that's 100 tons per car. Therefore, an 11,000 ton train of H21a's > would be 110 cars. > > > > OK, so what are the limits for an M1 with a bigger grade, say around 2%? > > > You also need to consider that while a single M1 may be able to pull xx cars > on up to a 2% grade, that doesn't mean that the same single M1 can get the > train moving from a dead stop. And it certainly would not be worthwhile to > use a booster to get started and then drop it, as block signals along the > way would stop the train again. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:58:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Rau Display at The Library Company From: Jerry Britton On 3/28/02 9:42 AM, Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. (gregv@NetReach.Net) wrote: > I am going next week. I heard the book is very well done. I would not > expect anything less of The University of Penn Press. > The book is excellent. (Merchandise Service has it in stock and will have it at the PRRT&HS convention as well.) I attended the opening reception on March 12 and have a mixed reaction. On the down side, there weren't very many of the photos on display...I'd guess a dozen or so. On the up side, seeing those photos in large format is incredible! There are also numerous photos and documents (not in the book) ABOUT Rau and the project for the PRR. Also a few photos and documents from other railroads. Some photos that are on display in large format include: the original bridge at Manyunk (sp), the second Rockville Bridge, Pittsburgh Union Station, The Mountain House at Cresson. The display is worth a stop if it's not far out of your way. There is a parking lot directly across the street from the Library Company that charges by the hour, so that is very convenient. >> >> Has anyone been to the William Rau photography exhibit in Philadelphia? I >> just acquired the new book on the subject and canot wait to see the larger >> versions of these 19th century images. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:02:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits From: Jerry Britton On 3/28/02 9:56 AM, Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. (gregv@NetReach.Net) wrote: > Well said Jerry. What does EET stand for? > ETT, not EET. Employee TimeTable. An ETT was published for each Division. The ETT shows both the passenger and symbol freights schedules, special rules for the division, locomotive restrictions, lists of all interlockings and block stations, track assignments (freights vs. passenger), etc. There are several available for download from my site... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "Bruce Smith" ; "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." > ; "PRR-Talk LIST" > Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:52 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits > >... >> >> This is my understanding. Supporting this is the fact that ETT's only list >> symbol and passenger trains...no mineral trains! >> ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:04:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits From: Jerry Britton On 3/28/02 9:55 AM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > If memory serves me correctly isn't horseshoe curve > around 1.7-1.9%? How trains were pwoered on the curve > would be a pretty good indication of tonnage ratings > barring any information that lists ratings for the > curve. Norm Bell In the case of "The Curve", you also have to account for -- don't know the fancy name -- the friction created by going around such a sharp curve. A 2% grade on a straight stretch might be akin to a 1.5% grade around the Horseshoe Curve, in terms of pulling power. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:07:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Rau Display at The Library Company From: Jerry Britton On 3/28/02 9:58 AM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > > There is a parking lot directly across the street from the Library Company > that charges by the hour, so that is very convenient. I also should have mentioned that MapBlast (http://www.mapblast.com) directions are perfect! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:18:22 -0500 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." wrote: > Well said Jerry. What does EET stand for? He said ETT. Employee Time Table Publishes ('...for employees only...') a mass of info, including tonnage ratings. A part of the difference between drag and scheduled services is that scheduled services 'must' make schedule, so specified loads must be lighter. Drag freight, typically, runs slower, can tie more on. Tonnage ratings are more complex than just the TE: (tractive effort) TE is specced on level track AND varies with lok speed in a nonlinear fashion. Published tonnage ratings control what the DS (?) should hang on the back, they take into account: TE Curves (add resistance) Grades (add resistance) Speed (Sets what TE is available) Operating Patterns (is there a stop on a grade?) (and i'm likely forgetting a few...) best dwp ===================================================================== > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "Bruce Smith" ; "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." > ; "PRR-Talk LIST" > Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:52 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits > > On 3/28/02 9:32 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >>(smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > > > Thanks! So, on the Middle Division, it looks like an 80 >>>car train of 50 ton cars or 60 70 ton cars would be reasonable, >>> ...what I don't understand is the difference between coal >>>drags and symbol trains...is it related to speed? yep. And the variation of TE with speed. > > Symbol trains are regularly scheduled freight trains between >> point A and point B, perhaps with connections. > > Mineral trains (coal, ore, their empties, etc.) ran as they >>became ready a could be put onto the system without blocking >>scheduled symbol and/or passenger trains. > > This is my understanding. Supporting this is the fact that >>ETT's only list symbol and passenger trains...no mineral trains! There is a bit more to it than that: that gets deeper into dispatching, rights of trains, etc. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Rau Display at The Library Company Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:19:26 -0500 What many don't understand is that their are not many photos of trains. It is more of where the PRR could take you. I found it interesting that the book was noted in the WHYY special. Seems someone at Univ Penn Press has some pull for the free plug. How about all the other excellent books published about the PRR. I feel a little resentment towards that. Anyway, I will comment on the exhibit post viewing. Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." ; "dfc PRR 7002" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Rau Display at The Library Company > On 3/28/02 9:42 AM, Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. (gregv@NetReach.Net) wrote: > > > I am going next week. I heard the book is very well done. I would not > > expect anything less of The University of Penn Press. > > > The book is excellent. (Merchandise Service has it in stock and will have it > at the PRRT&HS convention as well.) > > I attended the opening reception on March 12 and have a mixed reaction. > > On the down side, there weren't very many of the photos on display...I'd > guess a dozen or so. > > On the up side, seeing those photos in large format is incredible! There are > also numerous photos and documents (not in the book) ABOUT Rau and the > project for the PRR. Also a few photos and documents from other railroads. > > Some photos that are on display in large format include: the original bridge > at Manyunk (sp), the second Rockville Bridge, Pittsburgh Union Station, The > Mountain House at Cresson. > > The display is worth a stop if it's not far out of your way. > > There is a parking lot directly across the street from the Library Company > that charges by the hour, so that is very convenient. > >> > >> Has anyone been to the William Rau photography exhibit in Philadelphia? I > >> just acquired the new book on the subject and canot wait to see the lar ger > >> versions of these 19th century images. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:21:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Rau Display at The Library Company From: Jerry Britton On 3/28/02 10:15 AM, James Kelling (james.kelling@nara.gov) wrote: > Do you have the address of Liberty Co. in Phila? > 1314 Locust Street, Philadelphia http://librarycompany.org/ ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:19:58 -0500 1.87 % average Greg V ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" ; "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits > If memory serves me correctly isn't horseshoe curve > around 1.7-1.9%? How trains were pwoered on the curve > would be a pretty good indication of tonnage ratings > barring any information that lists ratings for the > curve. Norm Bell > > Greg, > > > > Thanks! So, on the Middle Division, it looks like an 80 car train of 50 > > ton cars or 60 70 ton cars would be reasonable, ...what I don't understand > > is the difference between coal drags and symbol trains...is it related to > > speed? (That is that the symbol train needs to average a much higher speed > > and therefore commits more HP to speed than to tonnage). If that's the > > case...how many loaded H21's is 11,000 tons? (Dang, that's a BIG train!) > > > > OK, so what are the limits for an M1 with a bigger grade, say around 2%? > > > > Happy Rails > > Bruce > > > > >Bruce- > > > > > >M1a tonnage westbound was rated at 4,200. Eastbound symbol trains were > > >5,000. Coal drags up to 11,000. Westbound initial 108 miles level to 0.3% > > >to Spruce Creek, where on a .47% began. At Tyrone, mp 116.6, grade > > >increased to .51% for the last 10.2 miles to the beginning of Altoona yard > > >complex at ANTIS tower. Many curves limited speed to 40mph on the western > > >end where the mountains closed in on the main line(Classic Power # 8 - M1 > > >Dual Service Mountains). > > > > > >Greg V > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." > > >To: > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:36 PM > > >Subject: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits > > > > > > > > >> Hi Gang, > > >> > > >> The discussion regarding the Broadway Limited M1a/M1b models got me > > >> thinking, and I had the following questions (mostly 'cause I don't have a > > >> Middle Division ETT)... > > >> > > >> 1) What were the ruling grades on the Middle Division? > > >> 2) What were the tonnage limits for the M1a (or M1b) on the Middle > > >Division? > > >> > > >> Happy Rails > > >> Bruce > > >> > > >> Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > > >> Scott-Ritchey Research Center > > >> 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > > >> http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > >> > > >> "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > > >Franklin > > >> __ > > >> / \ > > >> __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > > >> |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > > >> | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > > >> |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > > >> | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > > __ > > / \ > > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:27:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Rau Display at The Library Company From: Jerry Britton On 3/28/02 10:19 AM, Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. (gregv@NetReach.Net) wrote: > What many don't understand is that their are not many photos of trains. It > is more of where the PRR could take you. I found it interesting that the > book was noted in the WHYY special. Seems someone at Univ Penn Press has > some pull for the free plug. How about all the other excellent books > published about the PRR. I feel a little resentment towards that. Anyway, > I will comment on the exhibit post viewing. > As for the free plug, perhaps there is more to it than meets the eye. I didn't see the show, so I do not know its content. The book was produced by the University of Pennsylvania Press WITH The Library Company. 400+ photos by Rau are owned by the successor company to the PRR. Because they are not set up to preserve such items, the entire collection is ON DEPOSIT with The Library Company, which is set up to preserve and store the collection. The special "may" have used the resources of The Library Company for the show and provided the plug in return. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits From: Paul W Metzger Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:47:52 EST On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:52:07 -0500 Jerry Britton wrote SNIP >Mineral trains (coal, ore, their empties, etc.) ran as they became >ready and could be put onto the system without blocking scheduled >symbol and/or passenger trains. >This is my understanding. Supporting this is the fact that ETT's only >list symbol and passenger trains...no mineral trains! SNIP Actually, there were some scheduled mineral trains. Some that come to mind are: AS-20,22,24,26 SO-1 HS-2 MRR-1 (listed "as required") I would imagine though, that they were given lower priority than other scheduled symbol trains. BTW, the above info is from Jerry's website, which is excellent for PRR info. Thanks Jerry! Paul ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:57:43 -0500 From: James Stob Subject: Re: [PRR] Rau Display at The Library Company Group, The new Rau book from UPenn is absolutely fantastic. If you get the book, take a look at the photos with a lighted magnification glass, and your teeth will fall out with the incredible quality and depth. Unbelievable to get that quality back in those days! It is truly a most worthy PRR history book, not to mention the beauty of some of the places the Pennsy traveled. It's also a great study of extremely high quality photography. Best regards, Jim Stob Jerry Britton wrote: > On 3/28/02 10:19 AM, Greg Vlassopoulos, Jr. (gregv@NetReach.Net) wrote: > > > What many don't understand is that their are not many photos of trains. It > > is more of where the PRR could take you. I found it interesting that the > > book was noted in the WHYY special. Seems someone at Univ Penn Press has > > some pull for the free plug. How about all the other excellent books > > published about the PRR. I feel a little resentment towards that. Anyway, > > I will comment on the exhibit post viewing. > > > As for the free plug, perhaps there is more to it than meets the eye. I > didn't see the show, so I do not know its content. > > The book was produced by the University of Pennsylvania Press WITH The > Library Company. > > 400+ photos by Rau are owned by the successor company to the PRR. Because > they are not set up to preserve such items, the entire collection is ON > DEPOSIT with The Library Company, which is set up to preserve and store the > collection. > > The special "may" have used the resources of The Library Company for the > show and provided the plug in return. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:07:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re:Turntable Question From: "Ted Andrews" Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:31:57 +0000 Hi Ted, First Bowser is NOT Diamond Scale or associated with Diamond Scale. I have owned three of his turntables. a 105' Deck bridge, a 120' Deck Bridge, and a 135' Girder bridge and the only one I didn't like was the girder bridge. I purchased it to replace the 105' turntable because I had acquired a Westside PRR Q2 and the table was too small. I contacted the new owner last year after I was having severe problems with the girder bridge and he was strongly concerned and sent all new parts for me to attempt to fix it. In the mean time I acquired a 120' deck bridge model which was ideal for my purposes and I've never repaired the thing. The girder bridge is a paper and wood affair with cast-zamac parts for the wheel supports and the gallows. Diamond Scale requires some modeling skill but the results ae worth it. You end up with a highly detailed bridge and smooth operation. It is also adaptable for the PTS turntable indexing mechanism. Bowser's bridge is very sturdy unless you try to install the PTS stepper motor and indexing. The shaft is VERY difficult to maintain a solid connection and the table has a tendency to go out of index because of shifting on the shaft. Bowser is a good company for a "hammer and screwdriver" assembly but the pits are too deep, undetailed and not easily adapted to a good indexing system. I have built two Bowsers for friends and I have never been happy with the results. They are just too crude-looking. The Diamond Scale turntables require more time but are 1000 times better looking and are easy to adapt to various indexing systems. There is a third company making turntables just recently in the market called CMR "Custom Model Railroads". They are out of Baltimore and produce both HO and N scale turntables. HO has 90' (12 3/8"), 105' (14 3/8"), 120' (16 1/2"), and 135' (18 3/4") bridges and the also have indexing kits and turntable motors. www.custommodelrailroads.com I hope this helped. Nick Kulp PRR-Gize: I am planning on finishing the trackwork portion of my layour this year. One of the items to be done is the turntable ans roundhouse. I am looking for a 16" turntable and as far as I know, Bowser is the only manufacturer. Has anyone had experience with the Bowser turntables? Are they good or do they have any problems? There is another company called Diamond Scale Products; they have made turntables in the past. Are they still in business? Walthers used to carry them but not anymore. At any rate, I would be looking for a 16 inch turntable. Any information that you can provide me would be greatly appreciated. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:01:58 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits --- Jerry Britton wrote: [...] > You also need to consider that while a single M1 may > be able to pull xx cars > on up to a 2% grade, that doesn't mean that the same > single M1 can get the > train moving from a dead stop. I recall reading somewhere that a big difference between steam and diesel locomotives is that a steam locomotive could move a train that it could not start, while a diesel could start a train that it could not move. Before someone points out that "to start" is "to move", the author was pointing out that an electric motor has a short-term rating and a steady-state or long-term rating. Thus diesels can exert "one mighty heave" to get a train moving without dangerously overheating the motors, but can not keep up that effort continuously. There was talk in the late '50's to the effect that many PRR motive power people did not understand that difference. Using rules of thumb derived from experience with steam led to assigning insufficient diesel power, caused diesels to burn out due to long term overload. > And it certainly would not be worthwhile to > use a booster to get started and then drop it, as > block signals along the way would stop the train > again. Well, I am told that in the early decades of the 20th century there was a theory that the most economical way to move low-value large-quantity commodities (coal, coke, ore, maybe grain) was to do just that. That is, hook a huge number of cars to an PRR H-whatever, do whatever is needed to get the train moving, then let the little beast flog its heart out at 9.7 mph for as long as it takes to get there. This was called "drag freight". Your comment points to one of the reasons it didn't work out as well as the mechanical engineers had hoped. It way have worked on a RR such as the BR&P which did little other than haul coal. On the PRR main, unleashing such a beast (can't exceed 10.2 mph, mustn't stop 'cause it can't start again) while you're running trains which are trying to beat the NYC's New York to Chicago times would be madness. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Re:Turntable Question Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:04:19 +0000 I know without asking that I am in the minority having scratch built a turntable with a Suydam roundhouse and lot's of outside storage but I just can't justify the room those things take. A wye can be fit in a location a lot easier. My solution is to have all steam laying over on its return leg to where it is being serviced and run it light to where ever it needs turning. > From: "Ted Andrews" > Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:31:57 +0000 > > Hi Ted, > > First Bowser is NOT Diamond Scale or associated with Diamond Scale. I have owned > three of his turntables. a 105' Deck bridge, a 120' Deck Bridge, and a 135' > Girder bridge and the only one I didn't like was the girder bridge. I purchased > it to replace the 105' turntable because I had acquired a Westside PRR Q2 and > the table was too small. > > I contacted the new owner last year after I was having severe problems with > the girder bridge and he was strongly concerned and sent all new parts for me > to attempt to fix it. In the mean time I acquired a 120' deck bridge model which > was ideal for my purposes and I've never repaired the thing. The girder bridge > is a paper and wood affair with cast-zamac parts for the wheel supports and > the gallows. Diamond Scale requires some modeling skill but the results ae worth > it. You end up with a highly detailed bridge and smooth operation. It is also > adaptable for the PTS turntable indexing mechanism. > > Bowser's bridge is very sturdy unless you try to install the PTS stepper motor > and indexing. The shaft is VERY difficult to maintain a solid connection and > the table has a tendency to go out of index because of shifting on the shaft. > Bowser is a good company for a "hammer and screwdriver" assembly but the pits > are too deep, undetailed and not easily adapted to a good indexing system. I > have built two Bowsers for friends and I have never been happy with the results. > They are just too crude-looking. The Diamond Scale turntables require more time > but are 1000 times better looking and are easy to adapt to various indexing > systems. > > There is a third company making turntables just recently in the market called > CMR "Custom Model Railroads". They are out of Baltimore and produce both HO > and N scale turntables. HO has > 90' (12 3/8"), 105' (14 3/8"), 120' (16 1/2"), > and 135' (18 3/4") bridges and the also have indexing kits and turntable > motors. > www.custommodelrailroads.com > > I hope this helped. > > Nick Kulp > > PRR-Gize: > > I am planning on finishing the trackwork portion of my layour this year. One > > of the items to be done is the turntable ans roundhouse. I am looking for a > > 16" turntable and as far as I know, Bowser is the only manufacturer. Has > anyone had experience with the Bowser turntables? Are they good or do they > > have any problems? > > There is another company called Diamond Scale Products; they have made > turntables in the past. Are they still in business? Walthers used to carry > > them but not anymore. > > At any rate, I would be looking for a 16 inch turntable. Any information > that you can provide me would be greatly appreciated. > > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > http://www.igateway.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:07:25 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Layout & Web Site Hosting From: Jerry Britton The convention is approaching, and I am currently planning on having a laptop on display with access to my server. Anyone who HAS a layout page on my server, please review it and forward changes and additions. Photos and layout designs especially! Anyone who wants a free site for their PRR layout, contact me. We'll get you added before the convention. Onto another subject... This week I was reviewing a lot of the external links from my site. I was amazed at how many sites are no longer there. In some cases the ISP's are no longer in business. In other cases, the user changed ISP's and no URL forwarding is in place...resulting in a dead link. Add to that the mix of strange URL's of web sites...URL's that read "slash this, slash that, tilde last name, etc". I offer FREE web hosting for PRR sites. If you have a site and offer more than just links to existing content, please contact me about free hosting via PENNSYRR.COM. We'll agree on a short prefix for the domain name so it will be simple and easy to remember...and permanent! If you prefer, we can also host your site via a custom domain name that you have registered. Some of the sites we already host are Mark Bej's "Broad Way", Bill Ayer's "Crestline Roundhouse", Gary Mittner's "PRR Steam", and just this week, Gary Spear's "PRR Passenger Car Information" (still being loaded, actually). You'll get a private FTP account and access to numerous special tags for use on your pages. The only requirement is the placing of a one-line tag at the top of your main page. This randomly selects and displays a single banner ad from one of our sponsors. This is ONLY on the main page. We don't flood the site with ads, nor do we use popovers or popunders that are becoming a menace. So, please consider joining us! P.S. If you have a site for another road or a general railfanning site, we can host this via RAILFANCENTRAL.COM. P.P.S. Sponsorship opportunities and commercial web hosting also available. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:08:59 +0000 The industry believed up until about 1920 or even later that moving 150 cars at 10 mph in freight service was better than 75 cars at 20 mph. Don't ask me why that logic but that is exactly what the I1 was designed for along with nearly all freight engines of the era. Hence small drivers and in most cases lots of them. I would assume that it was easier on the track due to curvature, rail weight, roadbed, etc. Not many roads were built like the PRR > --- Jerry Britton wrote: > [...] > > You also need to consider that while a single M1 may > > be able to pull xx cars > > on up to a 2% grade, that doesn't mean that the same > > single M1 can get the > > train moving from a dead stop. > > I recall reading somewhere that a big difference > between steam and diesel locomotives is that a steam > locomotive could move a train that it could not start, > while a diesel could start a train that it could not > move. > > Before someone points out that "to start" is "to > move", the author was pointing out that an electric > motor has a short-term rating and a steady-state or > long-term rating. Thus diesels can exert "one mighty > heave" to get a train moving without dangerously > overheating the motors, but can not keep up that > effort continuously. > > There was talk in the late '50's to the effect that > many PRR motive power people did not understand that > difference. Using rules of thumb derived from > experience with steam led to assigning insufficient > diesel power, caused diesels to burn out due to long > term overload. > > > And it certainly would not be worthwhile to > > use a booster to get started and then drop it, as > > block signals along the way would stop the train > > again. > > Well, I am told that in the early decades of the 20th > century there was a theory that the most economical > way to move low-value large-quantity commodities > (coal, coke, ore, maybe grain) was to do just that. > That is, hook a huge number of cars to an PRR > H-whatever, do whatever is needed to get the train > moving, then let the little beast flog its heart out > at 9.7 mph for as long as it takes to get there. This > was called "drag freight". > > Your comment points to one of the reasons it didn't > work out as well as the mechanical engineers had > hoped. It way have worked on a RR such as the BR&P > which did little other than haul coal. On the PRR > main, unleashing such a beast (can't exceed 10.2 mph, > mustn't stop 'cause it can't start again) while you're > running trains which are trying to beat the NYC's New > York to Chicago times would be madness. > > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:17:50 -0500 From: Rick Miskell Subject: [PRR] C&BT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C1D652.94793BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Listers: I talked to Dick last night and am glad to report that he sounds better = than he has in several years. He's been home from the hospital since = last Thursday and is doing well. He asked that I thank those of you who = have expressed your good wishes during his illness. He also asked that I confirm that C&BT is alive and well. EBT hoppers = are in the manufacturing loop as we speak. Suppliers are placing = orders, suppliers orders are being and will be filled. New projects = (X-29 var) are on hold for what should be obvious reasons. Please be = patient. Health comes first. He is actively seeking a buyer for the business, and has talked to = several, but nothing is on the front burner at this time. C. F. "Rick" Miskell Operations Manager University of Pittsburgh Department of Biological Sciences A354 Langley Hall Pittsburgh, PA 15260 412-624-4274 ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C1D652.94793BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Listers:
I talked to Dick last night and am glad = to report=20 that he sounds better than he has in several years.  He's been home = from=20 the hospital since last Thursday and is doing well. He asked that I = thank=20 those of you who have expressed your good wishes during his=20 illness.
He also asked that I confirm that = C&BT is alive=20 and well.  EBT hoppers are in the manufacturing loop as we = speak. =20 Suppliers are placing orders, suppliers orders are being and will be=20 filled.  New projects (X-29 var) are on hold for what should be = obvious=20 reasons. Please be patient.  Health comes first.
He is actively seeking a buyer for the=20 business, and has talked to several, but nothing is on the front = burner at=20 this time.
 
C. F. "Rick" Miskell
Operations=20 Manager
University of Pittsburgh
Department of Biological = Sciences
A354=20 Langley Hall
Pittsburgh, PA =20 15260
412-624-4274
------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C1D652.94793BC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: [PRR] Tender Drive vs both! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:17:07 -0600 Hello List! I would like to clarify something that bothers me about this thread. IMHO - I always thought of the Fleischmann/Roco/Liliput(Bachmann)/Trix/Rivarsossi/Jouef engines as non-usable because they weren't Pennsy, and I have always tried to purchase only "Pennsy Locos". Now, from my limited knowledge of these locos is that when the motor is in the tender, but the drive goes to the loco and you have to contend with some means of transferring the power via neoprene or universal or whatever, it can be a difficult thing. Requiring great skill. Mantua General comes to mind. But what I want to see as a tender drive is for the whole shebang to be in the tender, as in a diesel. The loco would be dummy and be pushed (when traveling forward, of course - HA!) The engine could be used for pickup or not. It seems to me that a simple diesel drive in the tender would be not only practical, but easy to service/maintain. Far easier than a diesel, which has handrails, cab windows, etc. The drawback is the tender may not be large enough for DCC sound with speaker, etc. But now, why not put that in the engine where the sound should be from? i.e. Reverse the practice as used today. Motor/drive in tender and DCC etc. in engine. Why can't this be done? With today's can motors being as powerful as they are, and as small as they have become, it seems there would be room for weight. Now maybe not in the Shifter Tender, but certainly in the standard tenders used behind K-4, L-1, I-1 and such. And the huge tenders of I-1, Q-1, T-1 and such would provide ample room for a huge can motor and still have enough room for weight. Am I so far off base? This is all just conjecture, but it sounds too simple for me. Why has no manufacturer ever actually done this? Or has it ever been done? Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:30:07 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Happy Birthday Rockville Bridge! --- Newscast Info From: Jerry Britton The current (third) Rockville Bridge opened for traffic on March 30, 1902. This Saturday will mark its 100th birthday! The Borough of Marysville is doing a birthday bash NEXT weekend at the Lion's Club Park. It will be a week late due to the Easter holiday. For those within range, Dan Cupper notified me that he was interviewed this morning by WHTM/ABC 27 for a news piece that will run this evening...probably on the 6 p.m. news. He was interviewed at Bear's Tackle Shop (west bank, below bridge) by Mike Ross. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender drives Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:48:42 -0000 The European manufactuers do and don't use tender drives and some are abondoning them, such as Hornby. Roco do use tender drives and the models are superb, the Life Like USRA 2-8-8-2 is an example of a Roco product, though without tender drive. Patrick Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "'Donald E. Harper, Jr'" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:09 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Tender drives > I believe a lot of the European engines are designed with tender drives, > such as Marklin, etc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Donald E. Harper, Jr [mailto:harperd@tamug.tamu.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:20 AM > To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender drives > > > Y'know, now that this thread has progressed, I remember we had two engines > by (I think) Rivarossi back in the early 70's that ran on our Christmas > platform at home that had the motor in the tender and a driveshaft with a > universal joint to the engine. These were really smooth runners. The only > minor downside was that the drivers tended to work back and forth and made a > clicking sound. That and that the engine were not well weighted so they > did not pull much. > > > Don Harper > Texas A&M Marine Lab > 5007 Avenue U > Galveston, TX 77551 > 409/740-4540 > > > ---------- > >From: ndbprr@att.net > >To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk) > >Subject: [PRR] Tender drives > >Date: Wed, 27 Mar, 2002, 8:46 > > > > > It shouldn't be too difficult to run a tender drive from > > a drive shaft off the motor in the engine. Tyco ran the > > General with the motor in the tender and a drive shaft > > through the firebox to the engine due to the small size > > of the boiler. I envision a lower drive shaft that > > could represent the stoker screw between the engine and > > tender. All the tender would require is a slip > > universal joint for expansion on curves and a small gear > > tower on each truck. the rest of the tender could be a > > weight with a possible void for the decoder. > > Another idea I have presented elsewhere with little > > results is that the decoder connection should be in the > > fuel tank on diesels with a cover on the bottom like a > > remote control has that can just be unsnapped to drop in > > the decoder. No more disassembly to troubleshoot or add > > the decoder in the first place. Guess that is backwards > > thinking to those who make engines and might add a > > couple of cents of wire cost to the product. Just my > > rambling thoughts. Norm Bell > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Turntable Question Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:06:31 -0500 I don't think the Bowser turntables are the Diamond Scale ones could be wrong... >From Bowser's history on their web site (http://www.bowser-trains.com/History.htm): Several years ago we also added turntables which were designed for us by Charles Farmer of Elmira, NY. These are popular with model railroaders no matter what scale. We have N, HO, S, O, Standard or LGB, and have bridges from 8" long to 32" long. I know they make them as I took a tour of their factory a few years ago and saw them making them... Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:43 AM To: Ted Andrews; PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Turntable Question On 3/28/02 8:31 AM, Ted Andrews (ted_andrews@msn.com) wrote: > I am planning on finishing the trackwork portion of my layour this year. One > of the items to be done is the turntable ans roundhouse. I am looking for a > 16" turntable and as far as I know, Bowser is the only manufacturer. Has > anyone had experience with the Bowser turntables? Are they good or do they > have any problems? > > There is another company called Diamond Scale Products; they have made > turntables in the past. Are they still in business? Walthers used to carry > them but not anymore. > > At any rate, I would be looking for a 16 inch turntable. Any information > that you can provide me would be greatly appreciated. > Memory tells me that the Bowser turntables actually are the Diamond Scale turntables. I don't know for sure. Unlike other Bowser products, Bowser does not wholesale their turntables, perhaps another indication that it is really not their product. The fact that Walthers no longer offers them is probably due to a less than "standard" wholesale discount, which Walthers spurns. This may also explain why Bowser does not offer them wholesale. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:23:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re:Turntable Question In a message dated 3/28/02 11:20:12 AM Central Standard Time, ndbprr@att.net writes: << A wye can be fit in a location a lot easier. >> Well, it depends. You are probably relying on the fact some layouts already have two legs in place and plenty of room for the third. On my switching layout, adapted from a John Armstrong plan, I didn't want #4 turnouts and 15 inch radius curves of the plan, so I replaced the wye with a 12 inch turntable to good effect. Now I grant you that I am not putting a multiple-stall roundhouse in, but in this case the turntable was much more efficient. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:24:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re:Turntable Question Norm, A wye may be good for certain occasions (brancline) but the sight of a half, 3/4 or full circle roundhouse complex can be impressive! This is the heartbeat of the railroad scene. Yes it takes up space but space well used. Mine will be 18 stalls (possibly 24), radial tracks and a Diamond Scale Turntable). There will be penty of action for the B8a that is on the property.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:28:06 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender Drive vs both! In a message dated 3/28/02 11:36:57 AM Central Standard Time, PennsyNut@hotmail.com writes: << The loco would be dummy and be pushed ... The drawback is the tender may not be large enough for DCC sound with speaker, etc. >> The drawback is pushing the dummy locomotive. Because of experiences with the locomotives of a few members, last Saturday our club operations committee banned dummy units in the lead. Those were diesels, but the principle appliest to steam as well. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender Drive vs both! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:12:51 -0600 Yes, pushing dummies is bad practice. But if the loco is weighted properly, and the wheels are of PP2000 quality (Can we get drivers of that quality?), would that not be okay? After all, at our HO club, we push track cleaner cars without derailment. They are weighted to NMRA specs and have Proto2000 wheels. We have over 600 feet of mainline track with 3% and lesser grades without problem. In fact, we actually have 9 track cleaner cars used sometimes on 9 different trains and sometimes 1 train will have as many as 3 different track cleaner cars on it. (Six are plain box cars with a masonite block being dragged, one is the liquid track cleaner car from Tony's and the third is the ribbon roller type.) And yes, we push them - to clean the track in front of the engine. Because we don't operate every week, usually once a month, we must clean at the beginning of operation. So are there any others out there that have problems pushing? This is all meant to stimulate thought, and mostly, to stimulate manufacturers to try this. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Re:Turntable Question Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:13:58 +0000 I'm not knocking turntables and roundhouses. With staging yards and a dogbone layout design I just don't have the need for the terminal scene and would rather have a bigger yard or industries to occupy the space. Yes a wye or return loop can take up more space but it doesn't need to be part of the terminal. I was big into steam at one point but now am modeling about three to one diesel to steam. It is just easier to maintain and operate plus it is a darn sight cheaper. Looking at a roundhouse full of PRR tenders is a great sight but it doesn't add a lot of operation in most cases. They become places to store the stuff that doesn't run well and are more of a trophy case on most layouts I have seen. If you are modeling a division point go for it if you want it. Life is easier for me without it. Just one minority pinion and stated up front as such. Norm Bell > Norm, > > A wye may be good for certain occasions (brancline) but the sight of > a half, 3/4 or full circle roundhouse complex can be impressive! This is > the heartbeat of the railroad scene. Yes it takes up space but space > well used. Mine will be 18 stalls (possibly 24), radial tracks and a > Diamond Scale Turntable). There will be penty of action for the B8a that > is on the property.......Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:58:12 EST From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Rau Display at The Library Company The book was produced by the University of Pennsylvania Press WITH The Library Company. 400+ photos by Rau are owned by the successor company to the PRR. Because they are not set up to preserve such items, the entire collection is ON DEPOSIT with The Library Company, which is set up to preserve and store the collection. HELLO TO LIST: Have enjoyed the discusscion thread on the RAU PHOTOGRAPHS. The book is EXCELLENT as has been mentioned. What many may not know, is that the RAU collection is shared with the Southern Alleghenies Museum of Art in Altoona in an affiliation with Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum and the Altoona Area Public Library. Southern Alleghenies Museum of Art in downtown Altoona (opposite the main post office and within walking distance of Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum) is currently displaying some of the Rau Photographs. SAMA as it is known locally, exhibits RAU on a rotating basis most of the year. Anyone railfanning in the Altoona area should avail themselves of the opportunity to view the images. The Altoona exhibits are not large in total prints displayed, but admission is free although donations are appreciated. Dave Seidel PRRT&HS and NRHS, Altoona, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender Drive vs both! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:29:12 -0500 Morgan & List. The Model Power 2-8-0 that I talked of at first is this engine. The enginw was a dummy, the tender was the power unit. Sam Vastano >From: "PennsyNut" >To: >Subject: [PRR] Tender Drive vs both! >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:17:07 -0600 > >Hello List! > >I would like to clarify something that bothers me about this thread. IMHO >- >I always thought of the >Fleischmann/Roco/Liliput(Bachmann)/Trix/Rivarsossi/Jouef engines as >non-usable because they weren't Pennsy, and I have always tried to purchase >only "Pennsy Locos". > >Now, from my limited knowledge of these locos is that when the motor is in >the tender, but the drive goes to the loco and you have to contend with >some >means of transferring the power via neoprene or universal or whatever, it >can be a difficult thing. Requiring great skill. Mantua General comes to >mind. > >But what I want to see as a tender drive is for the whole shebang to be in >the tender, as in a diesel. The loco would be dummy and be pushed (when >traveling forward, of course - HA!) The engine could be used for pickup or >not. It seems to me that a simple diesel drive in the tender would be not >only practical, but easy to service/maintain. Far easier than a diesel, >which has handrails, cab windows, etc. The drawback is the tender may not >be large enough for DCC sound with speaker, etc. But now, why not put that >in the engine where the sound should be from? i.e. Reverse the practice as >used today. Motor/drive in tender and DCC etc. in engine. Why can't this >be done? With today's can motors being as powerful as they are, and as >small as they have become, it seems there would be room for weight. Now >maybe not in the Shifter Tender, but certainly in the standard tenders used >behind K-4, L-1, I-1 and such. And the huge tenders of I-1, Q-1, T-1 and >such would provide ample room for a huge can motor and still have enough >room for weight. Am I so far off base? This is all just conjecture, but >it >sounds too simple for me. Why has no manufacturer ever actually done this? >Or has it ever been done? > >Morgan Bilbo >Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:40:31 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Rau Display at The Library Company Greetings to Jerry and the List At the 3/12 reception, one LCOP staff person said the actual number of prints on display is 27. Keep in mind that the space itself is somewhat small, as it is a research facility with a lot of bookcases against the walls, it's not really an exhibition gallery. They were fortunate to be able to display that many of them. It's true that many show a sense of place and will not be of any interest to rivet-counters, but they are still magnificent vistas of a time period and a railroad that most of us can only imagine. Definitely worth a visit if you are in the Philly area. LCOP has some other non-Rau railroad items in display cases, too. Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender Drive vs both! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:25:54 -0600 >The Model Power 2-8-0 that I talked of at first is this engine. The engine was a dummy, the tender was the power unit. Sam Vastano< I must have missed that, in fact, I can't find it on the dsop PRR-Talk list. Please give more info? When purchased? Do you know when Model Power made it? Is it Pennsy? Remember, I mentioned I would not have even been interested if it wasn't Pennsy. As a matter of fact, right from the very start of my interest in HO modeling (somewhere around 1956 or so), I set my heart on PRR. From that point, I never looked at anything else. But, I also was aware of all the junk being marketed as PRR that was nowhere near correct. So, I admit to having a few mistakes, but basically, almost exclusively Pennsy equipment (locos, cars, buildings, etc.). This is not to say I don't have non-pennsy car models. But I do not count rivets. Like the other thread on tenders, if you can grind off rivets, put 8 wheel trucks under it, the Bowser tender makes a good representation. But back to tender drives, how did Model Power do it? Did it ever pull many cars? Give us some feedback. I can't speak for everyone, but as many have mentioned, this list has some really smart and knowledgeable PRR modelers, and I am sure I am not the only one interested in that "Model Power tender drive". Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:13:53 -0500 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a tonnage limits ndbprr@att.net wrote: > The industry believed up until about 1920 or even later > that moving 150 cars at 10 mph in freight service was > better than 75 cars at 20 mph. Don't ask me why that > logic but that is exactly what the I1 was designed for > along with nearly all freight engines of the era. Still somewhat true. The full logic takes a book on RR economics/expenses. The short version (I think from James J Hill): Revenue goes up as the ton-mile. Expense goes up as the train-mile. This leads to an operating model of few trains, hence loaded, hence slow. (RRs are a business. At some point Revenue must exceed Expenses. (yes. All transport modes are subsidized more or less and the playing field may not be level and etc and etc... Obviously, for certain classes of traffic, slow is unacceptable. It takes careful balancing to get to the optimum operational point. > Hence small drivers and in most cases lots of them. I would > assume that it was easier on the track due to curvature, > rail weight, roadbed, etc. Not many roads were built > like the PRR > > --- Jerry Britton wrote: > > [...] > > > You also need to consider that while a single M1 may > > > be able to pull xx cars on up to a 2% grade, that doesn't >>>mean that the same single M1 can get the train moving from a >>>dead stop. > > I recall reading somewhere that a big difference > > between steam and diesel locomotives is that a steam > > locomotive could move a train that it could not start, > > while a diesel could start a train that it could not > > move. Sort of. Its a simplification of the fact that any electric motor can be overloaded (to start the train) but must not be overloaded continuously (or it lets out the smoke). Any diesel (until recently) has a speed below which it cannot be operated AT FULL TE continuously. For switchers this is a very slow speed. For 'road power', if full TE is used below certain speeds (10-20 mph, depending on gearing) for extended periods, the motors get overheated. If a switcher can start a train, its usually ok. If a road unit (units) start a train AND GET INTO SLOW speed operation (eg a long grade) they can get into trouble. Due to the pulsating nature of steam engine torque (turbine fans, relax.... 8)>>), a steamer will always slip the wheels if loaded similarly. > > Before someone points out that "to start" is "to > > move", the author was pointing out that an electric > > motor has a short-term rating and a steady-state or > > long-term rating. Thus diesels can exert "one mighty > > heave" to get a train moving without dangerously > > overheating the motors, but can not keep up that > > effort continuously. yep. It's not a 'heave' in an instantaneous sense, rather a 5 or ten minute slog at full current. At that point, one needs to be moving fast enough to drop the current, or the traction motors get into trouble. > > There was talk in the late '50's to the effect that > > many PRR motive power people did not understand that > > difference. Using rules of thumb derived from > > experience with steam led to assigning insufficient > > diesel power, caused diesels to burn out due to long > > term overload. Many RRs had a learning curve in this area. In the early days of electrics (i mean EARLY: B&O and NYC, the respective road would routinely overload the electrics because 'it did no harm'. What it did did was overheat the motors, leading to high maintenance expenses.) best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:53:57 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Crestline artist's rendering From: prrq2 List, I have added an artist's rendering of the Crestline roundhouse to the Preservation page of my web site. http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ It is an impressive looking piece of art work. Perhaps some day it will look this good again! -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FredAbend@aol.com Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:41:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 boilers List, Finally had a chance to look at a PRR "Engineman's Instruction Book" for Electric Locomotives, Classes P5a, Modified P5a, and GG1. Pages 200 to 215 covers Steam Heat Apparatus, with pages 202-204 for "The electrical pieces of steam heat apparatus are listed as follows:" There then follows a list running from a to o (15 total). Plate 38 is for the Boiler Circuits. Some quotes: "Normal operation requires alternating current as well as direct current." "If the alternating current supply to control devices fails when operating... the high flame relay drops out, energizing the combustion controller to return to 'low flame' position, and prevents normal operation either in 'medium flame' or 'high flame' under automatic control. When the alternating current supply is restored after a momentary interruption, normal operation under automatic control is also restored." "The fire starting operation is best accomplished after the locomotive has been prepared for service, since compressed air and alternating current are required as well as direct current." There are only a few places in the section, such as where the water and fuel reservoirs are, to differentiate between classes. So it would seem that P5as and GG1s used the same type Steam Heat Apparatus and it needed alternating current for proper operation except for momentary lapses. Fred Abendschein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender Drive vs both! Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:59:30 -0500 Group, Yes it was lettered for the Pennsy, But it was a USRA design. But I bought it want I didn't know any better. It pulls very nicely. The motor is fully contained in the tender so is electrical pickup. If I remember correctly the front trucks of the tender do all the driving. Electrical pickup is between front & back. No wires to the Loco. It is very smooth running from crawl to high speed. I have not seen any problems with derailment from this combination. As for when I purchased it??? It was about 7 years ago. I have seen them on e-bay occasionally. Sam Vastano >From: "PennsyNut" >To: >CC: "Sam Vastano" >Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender Drive vs both! >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:25:54 -0600 > > >The Model Power 2-8-0 that I talked of at first is this engine. The >engine >was a dummy, the tender was the power unit. Sam Vastano< > >I must have missed that, in fact, I can't find it on the dsop PRR-Talk >list. >Please give more info? When purchased? Do you know when Model Power made >it? Is it Pennsy? Remember, I mentioned I would not have even been >interested if it wasn't Pennsy. As a matter of fact, right from the very >start of my interest in HO modeling (somewhere around 1956 or so), I set my >heart on PRR. From that point, I never looked at anything else. But, I >also was aware of all the junk being marketed as PRR that was nowhere near >correct. So, I admit to having a few mistakes, but basically, almost >exclusively Pennsy equipment (locos, cars, buildings, etc.). This is not >to >say I don't have non-pennsy car models. But I do not count rivets. Like >the other thread on tenders, if you can grind off rivets, put 8 wheel >trucks >under it, the Bowser tender makes a good representation. But back to >tender >drives, how did Model Power do it? Did it ever pull many cars? Give us >some feedback. I can't speak for everyone, but as many have mentioned, >this >list has some really smart and knowledgeable PRR modelers, and I am sure I >am not the only one interested in that "Model Power tender drive". > >Morgan Bilbo >Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Turntable Question Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:55:01 +0000 THANK YOU to all who replied to my post yesterday. It looks like there are three possible choices: Bowser, Diamond, and Custom Model Railroads. I will be making a decision soon. Ted Andrews _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:09:58 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender Drive vs both! In a message dated 3/29/02 7:05:47 AM Central Standard Time, svastano@hotmail.com writes: << Yes it was lettered for the Pennsy, But it was a USRA design. >> Unless I read the posts incorrectly, the reference was to a 2-8-0. No USRA design to that wheel arrangement, to my knowledge. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:52:32 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR M1a features Howdy Y'all, I promised an update on those questions I asked of Broadway regarding the M1a/M1b and here is their response: >>1) What tender is being offered with the M1a? > The tender will be the 210F75 with 6-wheel trucks and riveted construction. Yipee! >>2) With, or without trainphone? > It will be with the trainphone antenna Aw...gonna have to rip those puppies off! >>3) What front end arrangement will be offered? > The M1a's will have the step pilot and the generator behind the >headlight, and the M1b's will have the cast steel pilot and the generator >is mounted below the headlight. ALLRIGHT! Since the M1b is after my era, all you "beauty treatment" fans can have 'em...I'll get a stack of the "original" M1a! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:23:10 -0500 Subject: [PRR] More Broadway Limited M1 Information From: Jerry Britton As a matter of clarification, ALL M1 models from Broadway Limited Imports will feature 210F75 tenders with six wheel trucks and ALL will have trainphones. The T1 project was pushed to next spring, after the M1's. More info, including sound sample, at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar2.html#bli --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:54:33 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: PRR passenger & freight trucks Listers- I am in the process of making up a complete list of PRR passenger & freight trucks. I am adding the manufacturers and model numbers of model trucks, both now available or recently available. I started with Rob Schoenberg's list and have added all info I could find on my lists & E-mails. For example: PRR Class Description Manufacturer Part # 2E-P5 PRR GSC "Commonwealth" Sgl. Equal.-8"6" WB- 4W. MDC 2935 Does anybody know of this type of list available on-line? Please let me know. I will make this list available to all SPF's who want it. Thanks in advance, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> *** Web Design *** Flash Animation *** Programming *** Find the best Designers, Programmers & Consultants at Elance Post Your Project for FREE. Click Here. http://us.click.yahoo.com/QgjnMD/GB0DAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:54:33 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR passenger & freight trucks Listers- I am in the process of making up a complete list of PRR passenger & freight trucks. I am adding the manufacturers and model numbers of model trucks, both now available or recently available. I started with Rob Schoenberg's list and have added all info I could find on my lists & E-mails. For example: PRR Class Description Manufacturer Part # 2E-P5 PRR GSC "Commonwealth" Sgl. Equal.-8"6" WB- 4W. MDC 2935 Does anybody know of this type of list available on-line? Please let me know. I will make this list available to all SPF's who want it. Thanks in advance, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRR5499@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR M1a features Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:42:34 +0000 Bruce, Beggers can't be choosers,but WHY do they have to stick radio antennas on everything. Why didn't they make an undec. one you can modify ,like NO radio antennas and a step piolet with modernized front ect. I am in dire need of M-1as WITH modernized front ends and NO antennas ie- #6774. I guess i can't win-- Ed > Howdy Y'all, > > I promised an update on those questions I asked of Broadway regarding the > M1a/M1b and here is their response: > > >>1) What tender is being offered with the M1a? > > > The tender will be the 210F75 with 6-wheel trucks and riveted construction. > > Yipee! > > >>2) With, or without trainphone? > > > It will be with the trainphone antenna > > Aw...gonna have to rip those puppies off! > > >>3) What front end arrangement will be offered? > > > The M1a's will have the step pilot and the generator behind the > >headlight, and the M1b's will have the cast steel pilot and the generator > >is mounted below the headlight. > > ALLRIGHT! Since the M1b is after my era, all you "beauty treatment" fans > can have 'em...I'll get a stack of the "original" M1a! > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------------------------------------------------ Get the award winning ISP, AT&T WorldNet Service http://download.att.net/webtag ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:14:56 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Prototype Tortoises Break Too!!! From: Jerry Britton Okay, it's not just model Tortoise switch machines that break... Was railfanning from Enola to Cove today. A bit of a commotion after 3 p.m. There was an eastbound autorack stopped at BANKS in the controlled siding and an eastbound trailer train stopped at BANKS on Track 1. Unfortunately, the reverse-facing turnout that merged the two tracks was not locking in the Normal aspect, only in the Reverse aspect. Quite a bit of chatter between the Harrisburg Dispatcher and the Maintainer who was sent on-site. They tried a few switches to no avail. The finally "wedged" the turnout so the trailer train could proceed, which happened about 3:45. After it cleared the Dispatcher ordered something that I interpreted as an order to nail down the switch in one particular aspect until repairs could be made...disabling the possible use of one of the tracks between BANKS and CANNON (nee VIEW) in the process. Quite a bit of action today. Saw around 10 trains in an hour and a half, which is real good for the area. Will post some digitals shortly. P.S. Also saw diesel turning moves on the PRR turntable at Enola. I didn't realize the turntable was still in active use! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Denton" Subject: RE: [PRR] Prototype Tortoises Break Too!!! Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:08:09 -0500 Jerry, This has been a frequent thing at Cove and Banks for at least a year and a half. This is NS's answer to avoid problems until the repair can be made. Larry - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:59:03 -0500 From: James Stob Subject: [PRR] Updated PRR China & Silver Site --------------DFC32139B17866D057BD2A1F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those interested in the history of PRR dining car china and silver, I have further updated my web pages. Thanks, Jim Stob http://home.mindspring.com/~jimstob/index.html --------------DFC32139B17866D057BD2A1F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those interested in the history of PRR dining car china and silver, I have further updated my web pages.

Thanks,

Jim Stob

http://home.mindspring.com/~jimstob/index.html --------------DFC32139B17866D057BD2A1F-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] 100th rockville anniversary From: Paul W Metzger Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:29:32 EST Is the anniversary trips this weekend? Thanks Paul ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:16:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] More Broadway Limited M1 Information List, Just listened to the wav file of the whistle/chuff of the M1a/b for the new Broadway Limited Loco. I like that low sounding moaning whistle. (I guess lower presure caused this sound?) The chuf sound?, well, too much of a like rythm. Anyway, I am not into DCC but I was alerted by Charles W. of this list, that Soundtraxx does not have a PRR item in their inventory of sounds. I remember awhile back that listers were wishing for a GG-1 sound from them. Nothing ever come from requests? It was recommend by Charles that I make contact with Soundtraxx and offer them the sounds of my PRR 3 Chime Whstle. (For several years I have had a sound file on my K4 Website. Soundtraxx had their sound enginere listen too it but the sounds heard was not anything they could use. However, only about 40 seconds of whistle sounds are heard there. I offered them my video tape with about 5 minutes of the Whistle being blown. Hopefully they find something useful there, if not I suppose they will wait for 1361 to hit the rails again. Oh well, I will post their response when I hear more.....Gary PS: Soundtraxx wanted me to send my Whistle out to them in Colorodo so they could get the whistle sounds they are looking for. They have access to steam. I said I don't think so! Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:54:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Those other PRR E8s Hello List, Where did those other restored PRR E8s go? I think the Blue Mountain & Reading was running them but I haven't heard anything about lately. Are they still in service? Thanks in advance.... Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: [PRR] Re: X-28 boxcar ??? Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:23:03 -0500 I recently purchased an "O" scale PRR brass boxcar which was identified as an "X-28. I appears to be an X-29 with a door and a half. Is this for real?? I have looked in two of the color guides from Morning Star. I also looked in the July 1951 ORER. I'm looking for the proper number series. All the best to you and yours Weldon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: X-28 boxcar ??? Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:45:19 -0600 Hi Weldon--Yep, it's for real. Check it out on Rob's PRR site at: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X28 Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: X-28 boxcar ??? Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:14:55 -0500 Weldon, See http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X28 This Is Rob Schoenberg's list and includes number series and photos. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Weldon Greiger" To: Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 11:23 AM Subject: [PRR] Re: X-28 boxcar ??? > I recently purchased an "O" scale PRR brass boxcar which was identified as > an "X-28. > > I appears to be an X-29 with a door and a half. Is this for real?? > > I have looked in two of the color guides from Morning Star. I also looked > in the July 1951 ORER. > > I'm looking for the proper number series. > > All the best to you and yours Weldon > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Re: X-28 boxcar ??? Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:16:56 -0500 Resending, Outlook Express indicates not sent. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Mahlkov" To: "Weldon Greiger" ; Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: X-28 boxcar ??? > Weldon, > > See http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X28 This Is Rob > Schoenberg's list and includes number series and photos. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Weldon Greiger" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 11:23 AM > Subject: [PRR] Re: X-28 boxcar ??? > > > > I recently purchased an "O" scale PRR brass boxcar which was identified as > > an "X-28. > > > > I appears to be an X-29 with a door and a half. Is this for real?? > > > > I have looked in two of the color guides from Morning Star. I also looked > > in the July 1951 ORER. > > > > I'm looking for the proper number series. > > > > All the best to you and yours Weldon > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AHARTPRR137@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:13:59 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: X-28 boxcar ??? --part1_8f.19afc18f.29d75a67_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/30/02 11:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, crashtek@ismi.net writes: > I recently purchased an "O" scale PRR brass boxcar which was identified as > an "X-28. > > I appears to be an X-29 with a door and a half. Is this for real?? > > I have looked in two of the color guides from Morning Star. I also looked > in the July 1951 ORER. > > I'm looking for the proper number series. > > All the best to you and yours Weldon > > Hi Weldon and others, The PRR built probably 5000 X28 door and a half auto cars in the late 1920's. they were similar to the X29 but had an inside height of 9'3" vs 8''7" for the X29. In 1933 the Pennsy converted them to X28a single door cars and renumbered them in the 120012-125000 series. Automobiles had gotten bigger, making the cars obsolete for use as auto cars. A photo from 1930 of one of the cars has the number 58468. The built date is 8-26 but none of the cars are listed in the May 1929 ORER. At least two brass models of the X28 were made in HO. Sunshine Models makes a resin kit in HO of the single door X28a. Some of the above info came from the data sheet included with the kit. Andy Hart --part1_8f.19afc18f.29d75a67_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/30/02 11:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, crashtek@ismi.net writes:


I recently purchased an "O" scale PRR brass boxcar which was identified as
an "X-28.

I appears to be an X-29 with a door and a half.  Is this for real??

I have looked in two of the color guides from Morning Star.  I also looked
in the July 1951 ORER.

I'm looking for the proper number series.

All the best to you and yours         Weldon



Hi Weldon and others,

The PRR built probably 5000 X28 door and a half auto cars in the late 1920's.  they were similar to the X29 but had an inside height of 9'3" vs 8''7" for the X29.  In 1933 the Pennsy converted them to X28a single door cars and renumbered them in the 120012-125000 series.  Automobiles had gotten bigger, making the cars obsolete for use as auto cars.

A photo from 1930 of one of the cars has the number 58468.  The built date is 8-26 but none of the cars are listed in the May 1929 ORER.

At least two brass models of the X28 were made in HO.  Sunshine Models makes a resin kit in HO of the single door X28a.  Some of the above info came from the data sheet included with the kit.

Andy Hart --part1_8f.19afc18f.29d75a67_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:00:53 -0500 From: James Stob Subject: [PRR] Updated Web Pages --------------16980546FF86F096EC83541B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Group, For those interested, I have just finished updating my Pennsy Dining Car China and Silver pages. I've been having a problem with my hyperlinks, so i hope this works now. Best regards, Jim Stob http://home.mindspring.com/~jimstob/index.html http://home.mindspring.com/~jimstob/index.html --------------16980546FF86F096EC83541B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Group,

For those interested, I have just finished updating my  Pennsy Dining Car China and Silver pages.  I've been having a problem with my hyperlinks, so i hope this works now.

Best regards,

Jim Stob
 

http://home.mindspring.com/~jimstob/index.html
http://home.mindspring.com/~jimstob/index.html --------------16980546FF86F096EC83541B-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] More Broadway Limited M1 Information Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:17:38 -0600 "Subject: Re: [PRR] More Broadway Limited M1 Information Anyway, I am not into DCC but I was alerted by Charles W. of this list, that Soundtraxx does not have a PRR item in their inventory of sounds.........It was recommend by Charles that I make contact with Soundtraxx and offer them the sounds of my PRR 3 Chime Whstle. (For several years I have had a sound file on my K4 Website. Soundtraxx had their sound engineer listen too it but the sounds heard was not anything they could use. However, only about 40 seconds of whistle sounds are heard there. I offered them my video tape with about 5 minutes of the Whistle being blown. Hopefully they find something useful there, if not I suppose they will wait for 1361 to hit the rails again. Oh well, I will post their response when I hear more.....Gary" Hello, and to Listers. IMHO! We must keep in mind that Soundtraxx is in CO and have their roots in the DRGW and that's why they have every darn narrow gauge engine in the sound catalog. As to why they can't do PRR, I don't know - but when I asked them, they said they could not get the original, etc. etc. I firmly believe the hobby need a competitor for Soundtraxx. And before anyone jumps on me about Dallee, take a look at what they have. A sound device for Baldwin - wow - but look at what it takes - a dummy diesel for the sound unit alone. And a steam sound from Dallee, maybe a boxcar that is permanently coupled to the engine? Oh well, we can keep on hoping and dreaming. Someday, the Pennsy will rise again! Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: STEVEGG1@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:19:22 EST Subject: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD --part1_5f.25006aaf.29d7be1a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, A question (s): On the west bank of the susquhanna river there use to be a line that ran from Harve de Grace, MD to at least up to Conowingo Dam. Can someone shed some light on to it's history? Was it a PRR line unrelated to the dam, or perhaps just built for the dam's construction? Some of the track is still there (south of the dam's parking lot). Thanks in advance Steve Panopoulos --part1_5f.25006aaf.29d7be1a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all,
A question (s):
On the west bank of the susquhanna river there use to be a line that ran from Harve de Grace, MD to at least up to Conowingo Dam. Can someone shed some light on to it's history? Was it a PRR line unrelated to the dam, or perhaps just built for the dam's construction? Some of the track is still there (south of the dam's parking lot).
Thanks in advance
Steve Panopoulos --part1_5f.25006aaf.29d7be1a_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:58:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD From: Jerry Britton On 3/30/02 8:19 PM, STEVEGG1@aol.com at (STEVEGG1@aol.com) wrote: > On the west bank of the susquhanna river there use to be a line that ran from > Harve de Grace, MD to at least up to Conowingo Dam. Can someone shed some > light on to it's history? Was it a PRR line unrelated to the dam, or perhaps > just built for the dam's construction? Some of the track is still there (south > of the dam's parking lot). PRR ran up the east bank. The original Maryland & Pennsylvania ran up the west bank, then cut inland through Red Lion, and on into York where it dead-ended at an interchange with the PRR's Northern Central Branch. This is probably what you are looking at. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:10:54 -0500 Jerry: The M&P originated in "Ballamer", with its yard and roundhouse just across Jones Falls from the Penna. Produce Terminal at Mt. Vernon. From there it ran up to Towson, Bel Air, etc. It never got anywhere near Havre de Grace, which is on the EAST bank of the Susquehanna. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD > On 3/30/02 8:19 PM, STEVEGG1@aol.com at (STEVEGG1@aol.com) wrote: > > > On the west bank of the susquhanna river there use to be a line that ran from > > Harve de Grace, MD to at least up to Conowingo Dam. Can someone shed some > > light on to it's history? Was it a PRR line unrelated to the dam, or perhaps > > just built for the dam's construction? Some of the track is still there (south > > of the dam's parking lot). > > PRR ran up the east bank. > > The original Maryland & Pennsylvania ran up the west bank, then cut inland > through Red Lion, and on into York where it dead-ended at an interchange > with the PRR's Northern Central Branch. > > This is probably what you are looking at. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: STEVEGG1@aol.com Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:24:23 EST Subject: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD --part1_17.25ccff08.29d7f787_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Guys, This was not the M&PA. All this is south of Peach Bottom. There is a small community directly across the river from Port Deposit that has the RR going though it. There is also a trestle (with track) crossing I think is Deer Creek. Like I said, at the dam, go to the parking lot, walk south for a ways then you will see the tracks. I assumed they where PRR coming off of the corridor at Harve de Grace curving under the now Rt. 40 bridge (no track left here). After all, how else would they get the large equipment to the dam for construction? More open on the west side then using the Port Road on the east side. Steve Panopoulos --part1_17.25ccff08.29d7f787_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Guys,
This was not the M&PA. All this is south of Peach Bottom. There is a small community directly across the river from Port Deposit that has the RR going though it. There is also a trestle (with track) crossing I think is Deer Creek. Like I said, at the dam, go to the parking lot, walk south for a ways then you will see the tracks.
I assumed they where PRR coming off of the corridor at Harve de Grace curving under the now Rt. 40 bridge (no track left here).
After all, how else would they get the large equipment to the dam for construction? More open on the west side then using the Port Road on the east side.
Steve Panopoulos --part1_17.25ccff08.29d7f787_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:26:11 -0500 From: Ken Meyer Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD --Boundary_(ID_srrxpKNUnfVcWxZYwPGN5g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type=54455854; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Steve, I believe that line was used for the construction of the dam. I'm not sure if this line came off the B&O or the PRR. I even believe there was talk of a tourist line proposed for the route (70s-80s). See if there is a Havre de Grace Chamber of Commerce on the web. Ken Meyer STEVEGG1@aol.com wrote: > Guys, > This was not the M&PA. All this is south of Peach Bottom. There is a > small community directly across the river from Port Deposit that has > the RR going though it. There is also a trestle (with track) crossing > I think is Deer Creek. Like I said, at the dam, go to the parking lot, > walk south for a ways then you will see the tracks. > I assumed they where PRR coming off of the corridor at Harve de Grace > curving under the now Rt. 40 bridge (no track left here). > After all, how else would they get the large equipment to the dam for > construction? More open on the west side then using the Port Road on > the east side. > Steve Panopoulos --Boundary_(ID_srrxpKNUnfVcWxZYwPGN5g) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Steve,
I believe that line was used for the construction of the dam. I'm not sure if this line came off the B&O or the PRR. I even believe there was talk of a tourist line proposed for the route (70s-80s). See if there is a Havre de Grace Chamber of Commerce on the web.
Ken Meyer

STEVEGG1@aol.com wrote:

Guys,
This was not the M&PA. All this is south of Peach Bottom. There is a small community directly across the river from Port Deposit that has the RR going though it. There is also a trestle (with track) crossing I think is Deer Creek. Like I said, at the dam, go to the parking lot, walk south for a ways then you will see the tracks.
I assumed they where PRR coming off of the corridor at Harve de Grace curving under the now Rt. 40 bridge (no track left here).
After all, how else would they get the large equipment to the dam for construction? More open on the west side then using the Port Road on the east side.
Steve Panopoulos
--Boundary_(ID_srrxpKNUnfVcWxZYwPGN5g)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:16:58 -0500 From: Rosenbauer John Subject: Re: [PRR] More Broadway Limited M1 Information Gary Mittner wrote: > > PS: Soundtraxx wanted me to send my Whistle out to them in Colorodo so > they could get the whistle sounds they are looking for. They have access > to steam. I said I don't think so! I believe they're based in or close to Durango so I suspect they intended to mount it on one of the NG locomotives there. You might suggest they send you a plane ticket and you'll be happy to accompany the whistle. Might be an interesting ride behind one of those outside framed 2-8-2s with that whistle. Just a thought, John W Rosenbauer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:10:08 -0500 From: pennsyneil@comcast.net Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_NTT7KcBJj+3tvl2whGat0Q) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Steve The line you speck of was first put in during the building of the Conowingo Damn. The line was serviced by conection with the old mainline at Oak then traveled at grade in the middle of Juniatia St. till it came to the river bank. This connection was being used through the sixties.Hurricane Agnes washed much of the line out in 72. BTW in 1948 the Freedom train sat on the street trackage. At this time I believe the local City Fathers are doing a rail trail up to the State Park at Rock Run. Hope this helps Neil Canpbell ----- Original Message ----- From: STEVEGG1@aol.com To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 8:19 PM Subject: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD Greetings all, A question (s): On the west bank of the susquhanna river there use to be a line that ran from Harve de Grace, MD to at least up to Conowingo Dam. Can someone shed some light on to it's history? Was it a PRR line unrelated to the dam, or perhaps just built for the dam's construction? Some of the track is still there (south of the dam's parking lot). Thanks in advance Steve Panopoulos --Boundary_(ID_NTT7KcBJj+3tvl2whGat0Q) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Steve
The line you speck of was first put in during the building of the Conowingo Damn. The line was serviced by conection with the old mainline at Oak then traveled at grade in the middle of Juniatia St. till it came to the river bank.
This connection was being used through the sixties.Hurricane Agnes washed much of the line out in 72.
BTW in 1948 the Freedom train sat on the street trackage.
At this time I believe the local City Fathers are doing a rail trail up to the State Park at Rock Run.
 
Hope this helps
 
Neil Canpbell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 8:19 PM
Subject: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD

Greetings all,
A question (s):
On the west bank of the susquhanna river there use to be a line that ran from Harve de Grace, MD to at least up to Conowingo Dam. Can someone shed some light on to it's history? Was it a PRR line unrelated to the dam, or perhaps just built for the dam's construction? Some of the track is still there (south of the dam's parking lot).
Thanks in advance
Steve Panopoulos
--Boundary_(ID_NTT7KcBJj+3tvl2whGat0Q)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:12:21 -0500 From: pennsyneil@comcast.net Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD Sorry Jerry Not so The Ma & Pa had graded a line down Deer Creek to the Susquehanna River but never laid any track. Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD > On 3/30/02 8:19 PM, STEVEGG1@aol.com at (STEVEGG1@aol.com) wrote: > > > On the west bank of the susquhanna river there use to be a line that ran from > > Harve de Grace, MD to at least up to Conowingo Dam. Can someone shed some > > light on to it's history? Was it a PRR line unrelated to the dam, or perhaps > > just built for the dam's construction? Some of the track is still there (south > > of the dam's parking lot). > > PRR ran up the east bank. > > The original Maryland & Pennsylvania ran up the west bank, then cut inland > through Red Lion, and on into York where it dead-ended at an interchange > with the PRR's Northern Central Branch. > > This is probably what you are looking at. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:41:27 -0500 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_VVDaboUnbdP2Jhv+nQVyhQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Guys: I believe what you are discussing is what was loosely termed the "Old Line", which branched off of the "main" at "Oak", and then ran at "street level" to serve the industries of "Haber de Grass", "Merlin". The main stem of the "old Line" crossed the river on the old bridge to the South/East of the current NEC Bridge. There was a spur running "West" on the West side of the river to where the old Havre de Grace Racetrack was, and beyond to a stone quarry, or something. It was truncated before my time on the railroad, but may well have run up to "Peach Bottom" Nuke plant, at one time. This was below and East of the old MPA ROW which ran through Belair. My assumption is based on my interpretation of "old timer' stories when I was a new hire, so I may be off base. One way to solve the mystery , is to check out a early 1940's version of the CT 1000 which codified all sidings and industrial locations served by the PRR. I believe that someone has a version on line. Joe W. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Meyer To: STEVEGG1@aol.com Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD Steve, I believe that line was used for the construction of the dam. I'm not sure if this line came off the B&O or the PRR. I even believe there was talk of a tourist line proposed for the route (70s-80s). See if there is a Havre de Grace Chamber of Commerce on the web. Ken Meyer STEVEGG1@aol.com wrote: Guys, This was not the M&PA. All this is south of Peach Bottom. There is a small community directly across the river from Port Deposit that has the RR going though it. There is also a trestle (with track) crossing I think is Deer Creek. Like I said, at the dam, go to the parking lot, walk south for a ways then you will see the tracks. I assumed they where PRR coming off of the corridor at Harve de Grace curving under the now Rt. 40 bridge (no track left here). After all, how else would they get the large equipment to the dam for construction? More open on the west side then using the Port Road on the east side. Steve Panopoulos --Boundary_(ID_VVDaboUnbdP2Jhv+nQVyhQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Guys:
 
I believe what you are discussing is what was loosely termed the "Old Line", which branched off of the "main" at "Oak", and then ran at "street level" to serve the industries of "Haber de Grass", "Merlin".
 
The main stem of the "old Line" crossed the river on the old bridge to the South/East of the current NEC Bridge.
 
There was a spur running "West" on the West side of the river to where the old Havre de Grace Racetrack was, and beyond to a stone quarry, or something. It was truncated before my time on the railroad, but may well have run up to "Peach Bottom" Nuke plant, at one time.
 
This was below and East of the old MPA ROW which ran through Belair.
 
My assumption is based on my interpretation of "old timer' stories when I was a new hire, so I may be off base. One way to solve the mystery , is to check out a early 1940's version of the CT 1000 which codified all sidings and industrial locations served by the PRR. I believe that someone has a version on line.
 
Joe W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Meyer
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD

Steve,
I believe that line was used for the construction of the dam. I'm not sure if this line came off the B&O or the PRR. I even believe there was talk of a tourist line proposed for the route (70s-80s). See if there is a Havre de Grace Chamber of Commerce on the web.
Ken Meyer

STEVEGG1@aol.com wrote:

Guys,
This was not the M&PA. All this is south of Peach Bottom. There is a small community directly across the river from Port Deposit that has the RR going though it. There is also a trestle (with track) crossing I think is Deer Creek. Like I said, at the dam, go to the parking lot, walk south for a ways then you will see the tracks.
I assumed they where PRR coming off of the corridor at Harve de Grace curving under the now Rt. 40 bridge (no track left here).
After all, how else would they get the large equipment to the dam for construction? More open on the west side then using the Port Road on the east side.
Steve Panopoulos
--Boundary_(ID_VVDaboUnbdP2Jhv+nQVyhQ)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:08:57 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] E.C.W Passenger Trucks Listers- Can anyone add a Pullman or PRR class number to the following ECW trucks: For example- #9007 = 41-BNO #9003 = #9005 = #9006 = #9040 = #9041 = #9042 = #9043 Thanks in advance, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Find the Best Database Designers & Developers at Elance Post Your Project for FREE to receive Competitive Proposals from multiple vendors http://us.click.yahoo.com/TdNj9C/d.zDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:08:57 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] E.C.W Passenger Trucks Listers- Can anyone add a Pullman or PRR class number to the following ECW trucks: For example- #9007 = 41-BNO #9003 = #9005 = #9006 = #9040 = #9041 = #9042 = #9043 Thanks in advance, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:18:53 -0500 From: pennsyneil@comcast.net Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_oyU9PX21Yrn5ZKlgbjB0xQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Joe The line didn't make it to Peach Bottom. racks end at the foot of the damn at the power house. BTW I grew up in Hav-a de Grass and remember the old line station still standing as well as tracks in the cut from when trains where barged across the river.Alao saw the PRR X30 unloading a Fire Truck,thur the end doors no less, built American La France in Elmira N.Y. Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Witcofsky To: Ken Meyer ; STEVEGG1@aol.com Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD Guys: I believe what you are discussing is what was loosely termed the "Old Line", which branched off of the "main" at "Oak", and then ran at "street level" to serve the industries of "Haber de Grass", "Merlin". The main stem of the "old Line" crossed the river on the old bridge to the South/East of the current NEC Bridge. There was a spur running "West" on the West side of the river to where the old Havre de Grace Racetrack was, and beyond to a stone quarry, or something. It was truncated before my time on the railroad, but may well have run up to "Peach Bottom" Nuke plant, at one time. This was below and East of the old MPA ROW which ran through Belair. My assumption is based on my interpretation of "old timer' stories when I was a new hire, so I may be off base. One way to solve the mystery , is to check out a early 1940's version of the CT 1000 which codified all sidings and industrial locations served by the PRR. I believe that someone has a version on line. Joe W. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Meyer To: STEVEGG1@aol.com Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD Steve, I believe that line was used for the construction of the dam. I'm not sure if this line came off the B&O or the PRR. I even believe there was talk of a tourist line proposed for the route (70s-80s). See if there is a Havre de Grace Chamber of Commerce on the web. Ken Meyer STEVEGG1@aol.com wrote: Guys, This was not the M&PA. All this is south of Peach Bottom. There is a small community directly across the river from Port Deposit that has the RR going though it. There is also a trestle (with track) crossing I think is Deer Creek. Like I said, at the dam, go to the parking lot, walk south for a ways then you will see the tracks. I assumed they where PRR coming off of the corridor at Harve de Grace curving under the now Rt. 40 bridge (no track left here). After all, how else would they get the large equipment to the dam for construction? More open on the west side then using the Port Road on the east side. Steve Panopoulos --Boundary_(ID_oyU9PX21Yrn5ZKlgbjB0xQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Joe
The line didn't make it to Peach Bottom. racks end at the foot of the damn at the power house.
BTW I grew up in Hav-a de Grass and remember the old line station still standing as well as tracks in the cut from when trains where barged across the river.Alao saw the PRR X30 unloading a Fire Truck,thur the end doors no less, built American La France in Elmira N.Y.
 
Neil
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD

Guys:
 
I believe what you are discussing is what was loosely termed the "Old Line", which branched off of the "main" at "Oak", and then ran at "street level" to serve the industries of "Haber de Grass", "Merlin".
 
The main stem of the "old Line" crossed the river on the old bridge to the South/East of the current NEC Bridge.
 
There was a spur running "West" on the West side of the river to where the old Havre de Grace Racetrack was, and beyond to a stone quarry, or something. It was truncated before my time on the railroad, but may well have run up to "Peach Bottom" Nuke plant, at one time.
 
This was below and East of the old MPA ROW which ran through Belair.
 
My assumption is based on my interpretation of "old timer' stories when I was a new hire, so I may be off base. One way to solve the mystery , is to check out a early 1940's version of the CT 1000 which codified all sidings and industrial locations served by the PRR. I believe that someone has a version on line.
 
Joe W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Meyer
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: [PRR] West Bank of Susquhanna River in MD

Steve,
I believe that line was used for the construction of the dam. I'm not sure if this line came off the B&O or the PRR. I even believe there was talk of a tourist line proposed for the route (70s-80s). See if there is a Havre de Grace Chamber of Commerce on the web.
Ken Meyer

STEVEGG1@aol.com wrote:

Guys,
This was not the M&PA. All this is south of Peach Bottom. There is a small community directly across the river from Port Deposit that has the RR going though it. There is also a trestle (with track) crossing I think is Deer Creek. Like I said, at the dam, go to the parking lot, walk south for a ways then you will see the tracks.
I assumed they where PRR coming off of the corridor at Harve de Grace curving under the now Rt. 40 bridge (no track left here).
After all, how else would they get the large equipment to the dam for construction? More open on the west side then using the Port Road on the east side.
Steve Panopoulos
--Boundary_(ID_oyU9PX21Yrn5ZKlgbjB0xQ)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!!