From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 06:58:15 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Calendar of paintings Last year I had gotten a calendar made up entirely of PRR paintings of various artists. I can't seem to find it this year and I can't remember the printer. Can anybody help me out? Regards, Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 07:53:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Calendar of paintings From: Jerry Britton On 2/1/02 6:58 AM, Nick Kulp (caseyj@igateway.com) wrote: > Last year I had gotten a calendar made up entirely of PRR paintings of various > artists. I can't seem to find it this year and I can't remember the printer. > Can anybody help me out? > "Merchandise Service" has the Weekend Chief calendar. The 2002 theme is 12 paintings which were ads in the 1940's and 1950's. I don't know what they did in 2001, but the concept sounds similar. Size is about 11" by 17". Price is $10. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] WW2 Army hospital cars Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:07:29 -0600 The cars in the first picture resemble New York City IRT subway cars. -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:45 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] WW2 Army hospital cars My attention was caught by: http://image.vtls.com/VTLS/SC/16/092.jpg These cars look odd. There are other photos of hospital cars which resemble ordinary coaches. For example: http://image.vtls.com/VTLS/SC/13/047.jpg The ones which puzzle me ride on what appear to be freight car trucks. The truck side frames appear to be even with the car sides. If so, the cars must be quite narrow. They don't even look much like box cars, particularly the roof. They appear to be made up of flat panels, rising to a peak, but with two slopes, that is, a steep slope up from the eaves, then a much gentler slope to the peak. All in all, they look odd. I wonder, might these have been designed for use overseas? Perhaps they were, but by the time they were built, there was no need for them there so they were put into service here? I recall seeing numerous hospital trains on the PRR main line at Latrobe back in the '40's, but these cars ring no bell. (Or my memory is worse than I hope it is.) Any thoughts, WW2 army equipment gurus? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:22:11 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: TAN Re: [PRR] WW2 Army hospital cars Bob, >My attention was caught by: > >http://image.vtls.com/VTLS/SC/16/092.jpg > >These cars look odd. There are other photos of >hospital cars which resemble ordinary coaches. For >example: I looked at this photo and thought..."poor Bob is slipping...these aren't American built cars...the photo must be shot in Europe"...WRONG! Its clearly shot in the USA (C&O car behind the train, american auto in the distance...). Daggummit those cars look European! The caption states that the train is undergoing a test run on the C&O. The second shot of a hospital car is a converted Pullman (You can see the hasty paint out and relettering). I was only aware of the group of hospital cars built in 1944/45 on the same plan as the AC&F kitchen cars. These are clearly NOT those cars... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Calendar of paintings Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 10:41:29 -0500 Hi Nick, I think the calendar you are refering to was put out by John Scala...The Weekend Chief. He did color all Pennsy Calendars for about 10 years. Last year, 2001, was the Pennsy Painting edition. This year he is doing a vintage advertising calendar showing adds from WWII in color for $11.95 You can reach him at www.weekendchief@earthlink.net Hope this helps. Buzz PRRT&HS #271 -----Original Message----- From: Nick Kulp [mailto:caseyj@igateway.com] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 6:58 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] PRR Calendar of paintings Last year I had gotten a calendar made up entirely of PRR paintings of various artists. I can't seem to find it this year and I can't remember the printer. Can anybody help me out? Regards, Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:01:22 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: TAN Re: [PRR] WW2 Army hospital cars --- "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > Bob, > > I looked at this photo and thought..."poor Bob is > slipping...these aren't > American built cars...the photo must be shot in > Europe"...WRONG! Its > clearly shot in the USA (C&O car behind the train, > american auto in the > distance...). Daggummit those cars look European! Yep, all of that. > The caption states that > the train is undergoing a test run on the C&O. The Drat! I had read the caption and somehow looked right past "...trial run to Richmond...". So yes, poor Bob is slipping, but not as you had supposed. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:14:33 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Abbott's Alderney Dairy, the PRR customer Go to: http://www.mgdecals.com/abbotts1.htm for a photo of two milk cars operated by the company. I do not know where nor when the photo was taken. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] SPF's in Minneapolis Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:40:55 +0000 Are there any SPF's in the Minneapolis area that can contact me off line? I am considering a job switch to that area and have some questions. thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:55:16 EST Subject: [PRR] Today's Logansport Map In a message dated 1/10/02 4:03:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, JDPanza writes: << Rick: Here is the info I received from Transco. The former PRR line west of 18th Street belongs to the TP&W. The former PRR line east of 18th Street is the Central Railroad Company out of Lawrenceburg (spelling?), IN. That used to be the Winamac Southern Railway Company of Kokomo. The NS serves Transco as does the TP&W. >> Thanks Jim, I did receive the above message, and although I thought I had acknowledged it, the record says otherwise. It interests me that the splice between the two PRR segments still operated at Logansport should be at 18th Street. Still, I'm guessing, this gives the TP&W all of Yard B (or what's left of it), with the Transco facility/ancient PCC&StL Logansport shops up against 18th. I assume the 18th street meeting of the TP&W and the Central Railroad Company is on the south side of the Wabash River, across the street bridge from Transco and near where RACE tower was. The grain elevator which still stood east of the street here in 1982 was on the northwest corner of Yard A, and in the back still had an X26 boxcar with the remnant of its CK revenue paintscheme -- the only revenue X26 (unrebuilt) I ever saw. Thanks again for the update on Logansport's status -- it was very kind of you to investigate. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Painting of Broad Street Station, Philadelphia, by Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 15:42:03 -0500 I think I saw this painting at Timonium. If this is the same guy who had the print of the Harrisburg station with the T1 at last years PRRT&HS. It's a beauty!! Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: prrbill [mailto:prrbill@Op.Net] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:05 PM To: Lewis J. Matt PhD Cc: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Painting of Broad Street Sataion, Philadelphia, by PeterLerro "Lewis J. Matt PhD" wrote: > > Dear Friends of the PRR: > > I commissioned a watercolor from Pete Lerro entitled "The Broad Street > Station". It contains all my favorite juice jacks lined up at the station > ca 1935. Pete Lerro, the artist, is coming to my home this weekend to > deliver the painting. Pete does exceptional work in "pure" watercolors and > his work clearly shows his love of the Pennsy. I will have a reception on > Saturday, Feb. 1st, from 1 to 4 pm, for any one interested, to see the > painting and meet Pete. I have an extensive collection of original PRR art > and PRR calendars on display. Come one and all! RSVP E-mail me if you > need more directions. (My home is located in the extreme south west corner > of Pennsylvania but easily reached from Pittsburgh and Wheeling WVa via > interstate highways, about one hour travel time) > > Lew Lew, You have all us SPF's drooling. Knowing Peter and his work, you're one fortunate guy. Best, Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 15:49:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Painting of Broad Street Station, Philadelphia, by From: Jerry Britton On 2/1/02 3:42 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > I think I saw this painting at Timonium. If this is the same guy who had > the print of the Harrisburg station with the T1 at last years PRRT&HS. It's > a beauty!! > That's the guy! I have a copy of the Harrisburg print on my office wall. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:29:58 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Abbott milk cars wb3iqe@rocketmail.com Abbott's Alderney Dairy, the PRR customer Hi Bob, Neat photo. See also Model Railroading 1989/07 Milk car photos of model car sides pg24 (Bordens, Abbotts, Sheffield) Railway Model Journal 1990/10 Milk car offloading photo/txt; Abbott & Borden cars, R50b, milk trucks Thanks again. - Claus ------- Go to: http://www.mgdecals.com/abbotts1.htm for a photo of two milk cars operated by the company. I do not know where nor when the photo was taken. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 04:17:30 EST Subject: [PRR] Troop sleepers and kitchen cars and their conversions While on the subject, if you haven't seen them, following are some shots from the Otto Perry collection at the Denver Public Library site: Late model troop kitchen: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00019589 Troop sleeper: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00014522 A shot of a CB&Q express car converted from a troop kitchen car, seen on Pennsy East-West trains: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00004852 What looks to be another shot of a CB&Q car: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00004853 The CB&Q car is also shown in two videos behind T1s, both on the Curve, one purported to be the Gotham Limited. As shown, the windows are not plated over, but in later years I suspect they were. I haven't got any evidence for the latter,however. Gotta check with a CB&Q fan. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] Pbgh trolley - hopefully corrected Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 16:50:36 -0000 Thanks to everyone who responded telling me how to paint the Pittsburgh trolley. Been busy slapping new paint and other bits on the old girl and hopefully I've made a better attempt this time. Pictures have been placed at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/p87/gallery12.htm showing the little beastie on the trolley tacks at E. Carson St. on my Fed. St. P87 layout The shots showing that previous yellow and cream disaster have been cast into the abyss. My excuse is .....the video of 'The Trolleys of Pennsylvania" which I was using as my only source of info. labelled certain yellow and cream trolleys as being in 'Pittsburgh'. Later shots show very similar trolleys in 'Altoona' so the seeds of doubt should have been sown ( but weren't ). But masses of good info. came my way ..... thanks once again to everyone ...... yet another example of the power of the internet. Regards, John H. Wright, Washington, England. Web sites at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ and http://www.xclent.clara.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Troop sleepers and kitchen cars and their conversions Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 12:24:12 -0600 Wasn't Ralph Barger supposed to publish an all inclusive book on the troop sleepers? Anyone know the status of his project? -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 3:18 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Troop sleepers and kitchen cars and their conversions While on the subject, if you haven't seen them, following are some shots from the Otto Perry collection at the Denver Public Library site: Late model troop kitchen: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00019589 Troop sleeper: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00014522 A shot of a CB&Q express car converted from a troop kitchen car, seen on Pennsy East-West trains: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00004852 What looks to be another shot of a CB&Q car: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00004853 The CB&Q car is also shown in two videos behind T1s, both on the Curve, one purported to be the Gotham Limited. As shown, the windows are not plated over, but in later years I suspect they were. I haven't got any evidence for the latter,however. Gotta check with a CB&Q fan. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 16:01:13 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re:AHM/IHC/Rivarossi List of Cars-Long Hello again, Please open your message box full-width for easier viewing. I have taken Andy Harman's & others advice and simplified my list of Jan. 15. This list includes the 20 original AHM/IHC Rivie cars plus the 24 new IHC Chinese cars. I also have included the paint scheme variations of all cars for my own purposes.Please note how I have listed the group numbers for easier seperation. Model numbers date from the 1960's to the present. Please understand that this is a PRR oriented list and model numbers include only PRR cars. If you can add or correct any info to this list, please let me know via the list or direct E-mail. There are many question marks in this list. It would be nice to complete the prototype info for everybody to use. Hope to hear from a lot of you PRR experts and mavens. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO 1. AHM/Rivarossi- "1920 HW" -1960's thru 1994- 1st & 2nd tooling (8 different cars) 633- series has interiors & lights. AHM/Riv. Baggage-Express-620622-6567 HW 70' Baggage, B-8A, B B&O AHM/Riv. RPO-Baggage-2806 HW 70' RPO, E-7A, B B&O, GN??? AHM/Riv. Combine-620322-633322--2723 HW Rider car ATSF #2602-08 AHM/Riv. Coach-620522-633522-2738 Pullman, lot 3711 HW 72' Coach-78 seat ?? SOU #1367-1424?? AHM/Riv. Diner-620422-633422-2726 Pullman 3391 HW 83' Diner, 36 seat ATSF #1456-63 #1400-18 AHM/Riv. Pullman-620122-633122-2724-6046 Pullman 3410B-2410? HW 12Sec-1Dr-"Logan" PRR IHC/Riv. Pullman-6612 Pullman 3410B HW 12-1-"Lambs Club" PRR AHM/Riv. Dupl. Sl.-2820 Pullman 4029 HW 16 Dup.-"Eventide & Nocturne" PRR AHM/Riv. Obs.-620222-633222-2725 Pullman 3391 HW 3-2-Obs-Z74D ATSF #1513-14 2. AHM/Rivarossi- "1930 LW Streamliners" Smoothside Cars - 1960's thru1994- 1st & 2nd tooling (8 different cars) AHM/Riv. Baggage-2824-6604 ACF LW 70' Baggage UP #5711-5745 AHM/Riv. RPO--2741 Altoona HW/LW 70' RPO, BM70NB-"#6523" PRR #6518 AHM/RIV. Coach-2761 LW P85A Coach-"no numbers" CN?-5400 series,UP?? AHM/RIV. Diner-2816 ACF LW Diner UP #4800-4816 AHM/RIV. Dome-2795 ACF/Pullman LW Dome lounge UP # 7000-7009, AHM/RIV. Sleeper-2746 ACF Sim. To Pull 4140 LW 10Rmt-6Br-"Huron-Penns-Catawissa"PRR "___ Rapids" IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6616 ACF Sim. To Pull 4140 LW 10-6."Colonial Houses" PRR IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6617 " " LW Sl. 10-6."Imperial Loch" PRR-Interchange paint IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6618 " " LW Sl. 10-6."Imperial Park" PRR-Interchange paint IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6619 " " LW Sl. 10-6."Buffalo Rapids" PRR-Interchange paint IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6613 " " LW Sl. 10-6."Blue Rapids" PRR-Interchange paint AHM/RIV. Dup.-2802 Pullman 4066B LW 12DupRmt-5Br-"Morrow" PRR, "___Brook" AHM/RIV. Obs.-2745-2747 Pullman 4133 1948 B.L. LW 2Mr-1Br-Buf-LngeObs."Tower-Mountain"PRR "__ View" 2A. IHC/Rivarossi-"1940 LW Smoothsides" "East Wind" -1992-1996 (Same cars as 1930 LW Smoothsides) 1st tooling IHC/Riv. Baggage-5632 ACF LW 70' Baggage UP??? IHC/Riv. Coach-5633 LW P85A Coach UP??? IHC/Riv. Diner-5631 ACF LW Diner UP??? IHC/Riv. Obs.-5634 LW 2Mr-1Br-Buf-LngeObs. ??? 3. IHC/Rivarossi- "1940 Budd Congressionals" Corrugated Sides -1990-1996- 1st tooling (4 different cars) IHC/Riv. Coach-6731 Pullman7457 A LW-flute 72' Coach,56 seat "Standish" SOU, PRR, NYC??? IHC/Riv. Coach-6731-1 Pullman7457 A LW-flute 72' Coach, 56 seat-"Prinz" SOU, PRR, NYC??? IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6732 Budd 9502,9510 LW-flute 10Rmt-6Br-"Scioto Rapids" NYC Hybrid, Valley IHC/Riv. Sleeper6732-1 Budd 9502,9510 LW-flute 10-6-"Lafayette" NYC Hybrid, Valley IHC/Riv. Diner-6730 Budd Fair for "Senator" LW-flute Diner Grill-"M.Washington" NYC #450-467 IHC/Riv. Pullman-6614 Pullman HW-St.St. Sl. 12-1 "John Hancock" PRR IHC/Riv. Obs.-6733 Budd LW-flute Obs-G. Washington" Hybrid-RDG Crusader 3A. IHC/Rivarossi-"1940 Budd Fleet of Modernization" Corrugated Sides -1991-1996-1st tooling (Same cars as Congos) IHC/Riv. Coach-6861 Pullman7457A, Budd?? LW-flute Coach, 56 seat-"#4010" PRR??? IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6862 Budd 9502,9510 LW-flute Sl. 10Rmt-6Br-#4022" NYC Hybrid, IHC/Riv. Diner-6860 Budd LW-flute Diner Grill-"#4501" NYC IHC/Riv. Obs.-6863 Budd LW-flute Obs-"#1126" Hybrid 4. IHC "HW Pullman Standard" -2000- 1st tooling (IHC Chinese cars) IHC Baggage-49540 HW Baggage B&O??? IHC RPO-49545 HW RPO B&O??? IIHC Combine-49542 HW Combine ??? IHC Coach-49541 HW Coach, 78-seat ??? IHC Sleeper-49547 Pullman-3410A HW Sl. 12-1-Cpt-Anthony Wayne-#8722 B&O-S14C??? IIHC Diner-49543 HW Diner, 36 seat B&O Colonial??? IHC Sleeper-49546 Pullman-3979A HW Sl. 8-1-2-Dr-Royal Oak-#8610 B&O Ambassador??? IHC Obs.-49544 HW 3-2-Obs. ??? 5. IHC- "LW Pullman Standard" "Corrugated Sides -2000- (IHC Chinese cars) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-47900 Plan 7463 LW-flute Baggage Mail 60' SOU-1750-51??? IHC RPO-47905 Plan 7462 LW-flute RPO SOU??? IHC Combine-47904 Plan 7455 LW-flute Combine-bagg,-dorm-22 seat coach ??? IHC Coach-47901 Budd-Plan 7457A LW-flute Coach, 56 seat ??? IHC Sleeper-47906 Budd-Plan 4100B LW-flute 24 Duplex Roomette Sleeper ??? IHC Diner-47902 Budd-Plan 7458 LW-flute Diner Grill-48 seat ??? IHC Dome-47907 Budd-Plan 7616 LW-flute Dome Bar Lounge ??? IHC Obs.-47903 Budd-Plan 4115 LW-flute Sl. 4 Dr-1Br-Obs-Lounge ??? 5A. IHC "LW Pullman Standard" "Congressionals" Corrugated Sides -2000- (IHC Chinese cars-Same cars as PS Corrugated) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-47740 Plan 7463 LW-flute Baggage Mail 60' SOU-1750-51??? IHC RPO-47745 Plan 7462 LW-flute RPO SOU-1700-01??? IHC Combine-47744 Plan 7455 LW-flute Combine-bagg,-dorm-22 seat coach SOU-700-705??? IHC Coach-47741 Budd-Plan 7457A LW-flute Coach, 56 seat PRR-SOU-800-814??? IHC Sleeper-47746 Budd -Plan 4100B LW-flute 24 Duplex Roomette Sleeper ATSF, Indian Series?? IHC Diner-47742 Budd-Plan 7458 LW-flute Diner Grill-48 seat NYC-SOU-3300-04??? IHC Dome-47747 Budd-Plan 7616 LW-flute Dome Bar Lounge ATSF-500-525??? IHC Obs.-47743 Budd-Plan 4115 LW-flute Sl. 4 Dr-1Br-Obs-Lounge ATSF-Vista Series??? 5B. IHC "LW Pullman Standard""Fleet of Modernism" Corrugated Sides-2000-(IHC Chinese cars-Same cars as PS Corrugated) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-47730 Plan 7463 LW-flute Baggage Mail 60' ??? IHC RPO-47735 Plan 7462 LW-flute RPO ??? IHC Combine-47734 Plan 7455 LW-flute Combine-bagg,-dorm-22 seat coach??? IHC Coach-47731 Budd-Plan 7457A LW-flute Coach, 56 seat PRR??? IHC Sleeper-47736 Budd-Plan 4100B LW-flute 24 Duplex Roomette Sleeper ??? IHC Diner-47732 Budd-Plan 7458 LW-flute Diner Grill-48 seat ??? IHC Dome-47737 Budd-Plan 7616 LW-flute Dome Bar Lounge ??? IHC Obs.-47733 Budd-Plan 4115 LW-flute Sl. 4 Dr-1Br-Obs-Lounge ??? 6. IHC "Pullman Standard Smoothsides" -2000- (IHC Chinese cars) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-48210 LW Baggage ??? IHC Combine-48214 LW Combine ??? IHC RPO-48215 LW RPO ??? IHC Coach-48211 LW Coach ??? IIHC Diner-48212 LW Diner ??? IHC Dome-48217 LW Dome ??? IHC Duplex-48216 LW Sl. 24Dup.Rmt.?? Cross Creek-#8383 B&O ?(Hungerford) ?? IHC Obs.-48213 LW Observation ??? 6A. IHC "Pullman Standard Smoothsides" "Eastwind" -2000- (IHC Chinese cars-Same cars as smoothside) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-48320 LW Baggage ??? IHC Combine-48324 LW Combine ??? IHC RPO-48325 LW RPO ??? IHC Coach-48321 LW Coach ??? IHC Diner-48322 LW Diner ??? IHC Dome-48327 LW Dome ??? IHC Duplex-48326 LW Sl. 24Dup.Rmt.?? ??? IHC Obs.-48323 LW Observation ??? 6B. IHC "Pullman Standard Smoothsides" "Fleet of Modernism" -2000- IHC Chinese cars-Same cars as smoothside) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-48310 LW Baggage ??? IHC Combine-48314 LW Combine ??? IHC RPO-48315 LW RPO ??? IHC Coach-48311 LW Coach ??? IIHC Diner-48312 LW Diner ??? IHC Dome-48317 LW Dome ??? IHC Duplex-48316 LW Sl. 24Dup.Rmt ??? IHC Obs.-48313 LW Observation ??? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere Check Email & Transfer files - Free Download http://us.click.yahoo.com/1njxPB/wakDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 22:51:32 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Subject: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... Will wonders never cease! I was at the Amhearst show in Springfield Mass today and Funaro & Camerlengo was there selling their redone H30a covered hoppers! The detail on the castings looks much better than the original kit. Hopefully it goes together easier! I'm just starting to clean the castings so I can't say yet... The instructions look to be much improved also... They had them at the show for 2/$30... not a bad deal. Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 22:11:29 -0600 Hi Rob--That was really unexpected. Please give us a "product review" when you can. I need some! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 17:04:51 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Subject: [PRR] Stewart's new HO DS-4-4-1000... Hi, One other new PRR product at the Springfield show was that Stewart's doing DS-4-4-1000's in HO! They're being done by Ajin like the VO-1000's. He only had an undec unit for display but it looked great to me! I think there will be 2 #'s in Pennsy... See his site for more... http://www.stewarthobbies.com/ANNOUNCE.HTM Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 18:20:05 -0500 From: Charles Ring Subject: [PRR] Somerset Railroad? Today I was stopped at a grade crossing next to (i think) the former PRR station in Brookfield, Ohio, and saw a long coal train. I didnt see the locomotives; all i saw was a very long string of identical loaded coal cars with a name and logo i've never seen before - Somerset Railroad, with an SR logo in which the lower part of the R was in the shape of an old "cow catcher" pilot. Each car had a three-digit number, another thing i never saw before. Is this really a new railroad or what? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Somerset Railroad? Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 18:56:17 -0500 Charles, The Somerset Railroad serves a power plant near Lockport, New York. It was built by the power company (Niagara Mohawk??) from a connection with Conrail to the plant. It is a common carrier, but I believe the power plant is its only customer. AFAIK, this was done so that the cars could earn car hire while roaming around on other railroads. This railroad was non-existent in the PRR era, but has been around a couple of decades.. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Ring" To: "PRR Talk" Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 6:20 PM Subject: [PRR] Somerset Railroad? > Today I was stopped at a grade crossing next to (i think) the former PRR > station in Brookfield, Ohio, and saw a long coal train. I didnt see the > locomotives; all i saw was a very long string of identical loaded coal > cars with a name and logo i've never seen before - Somerset Railroad, > with an SR logo in which the lower part of the R was in the shape of an > old "cow catcher" pilot. Each car had a three-digit number, another > thing i never saw before. Is this really a new railroad or what? > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Caliciotti Jr." Subject: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 03:49:53 +0000 Were any Pennsy K-4s ever painted Bruswick Green? Or were they all black? Thanks, Sam _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 00:24:40 -0500 Sam, They were ALL painted Dark Green Locomotive Enamel (DGLE), sometimes called Brunswick Green. The frames, wheels and trucks were painted black. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Caliciotti Jr." To: Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 10:49 PM Subject: [PRR] pennsy k-4s > > Were any Pennsy K-4s ever painted Bruswick Green? Or were they all > black? > > Thanks, Sam > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:14:44 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... Rob, We must have rubbed shoulders at the F&C booth! I picked up 2 myself. I wonder how many other SPFs were there and did not know how to recognize each other. I was wearing a keystone and my name tag from my club. F&C Has made its biggest improvement in its instructions. For those of you who had built older F&C Kits you will know how easy that is to believe ;-) They are now typeset and include a photograph of the parts with each identified. On a additional note, I also picked up one of the Trainstuff 90F82 tenders. It will take a LOT more work than the H30. I am far from thrilled with the castings, but it's the only game in town and I think with enough effort something beautiful can come of it. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Will wonders never cease! I was at the Amhearst show in Springfield > Mass today and Funaro & Camerlengo was there selling their redone > H30a covered hoppers! The detail on the castings looks much better > than the original kit. Hopefully it goes together easier! I'm just > starting to clean the castings so I can't say yet... The instructions > look to be much improved also... They had them at the show for 2/$30... > not a bad deal. > > Rob > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:52:57 -0500 Andrew, Group, I am glad I am not the only one that was not thrilled with the quality of the castings from trainstuff. I would have thought for 60.00 it would have been a bit better than it was. But I guess beggers can't be choosers. Sam Vastano >From: "Andrew S. Miller" >To: Rob Schoenberg >CC: prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... >Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:14:44 -0500 > >Rob, > >We must have rubbed shoulders at the F&C booth! I picked up 2 myself. I >wonder how many other SPFs were there and did not know how to recognize >each >other. I was wearing a keystone and my name tag from my club. > >F&C Has made its biggest improvement in its instructions. For those of you >who had built older F&C Kits you will know how easy that is to believe ;-) >They are now typeset and include a photograph of the parts with each >identified. > >On a additional note, I also picked up one of the Trainstuff 90F82 tenders. >It will take a LOT more work than the H30. I am far from thrilled with the >castings, but it's the only game in town and I think with enough effort >something beautiful can come of it. > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org > >================================================== > > >Rob Schoenberg wrote: > > > Will wonders never cease! I was at the Amhearst show in Springfield > > Mass today and Funaro & Camerlengo was there selling their redone > > H30a covered hoppers! The detail on the castings looks much better > > than the original kit. Hopefully it goes together easier! I'm just > > starting to clean the castings so I can't say yet... The instructions > > look to be much improved also... They had them at the show for 2/$30... > > not a bad deal. > > > > Rob > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > >-- > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Sam Vastano McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. PH 724-368-8040 X243 Fax 724-368-9677 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 09:34:05 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Trainstuff 90F82 (was:F&C H30a's) The specifics on the tender as I see it was that the floor casting thickness was very uneven. It is far thicker at one end than the other. I will try sanding it down on my belt sander. If that doesn't work I will just have to fabricate a new floor. Perhaps I will make it of brass and deal with the weight issue that way. Trainsstuff's solution to the weight was to provide a steel weight inside the tender. The truck screw into the weight thus providing the electrical continuity. But I would have to glue the weight down, otherwise whenever I remove the trucks, weight would fall off inside! The other major casting problem is in the front steps. The insides of many of the steps contain excess casting resin which is almost impossible to carve away in the small hollow of the step. Lastly, beware that the "barebones" kit sold at the show not only doesn't have the hatches, scoop, doghouse, etc, which I expected. These fitting varied and were not all present on all tenders (well - yes, they all had a water hatch). But it is also missing the rear stirrups, end sill and footboards. I repeat, I am disappointed, but still convinced that I will be able to make something worthwhile out of this kit. In fairness to Dayna, I must mention that the level of detail is excellent. The rivets look very good and the coal board the thin and delicate, and very prototypical looking. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Sam Vastano wrote: > Andrew, Group, > > I am glad I am not the only one that was not thrilled with the quality of > the castings from trainstuff. I would have thought for 60.00 it would have > been a bit better than it was. But I guess beggers can't be choosers. > > Sam Vastano > > >From: "Andrew S. Miller" > >To: Rob Schoenberg > >CC: prr-talk@dsop.com > >Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... > >Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:14:44 -0500 > > > >Rob, > > > >We must have rubbed shoulders at the F&C booth! I picked up 2 myself. I > >wonder how many other SPFs were there and did not know how to recognize > >each > >other. I was wearing a keystone and my name tag from my club. > > > >F&C Has made its biggest improvement in its instructions. For those of you > >who had built older F&C Kits you will know how easy that is to believe ;-) > >They are now typeset and include a photograph of the parts with each > >identified. > > > >On a additional note, I also picked up one of the Trainstuff 90F82 tenders. > >It will take a LOT more work than the H30. I am far from thrilled with the > >castings, but it's the only game in town and I think with enough effort > >something beautiful can come of it. > > > >Regards, > > > >Andy Miller > >asmiller@mitre.org > > > >================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "TJ LInk" Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:04:42 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1AD6B.BF0EAB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, List, I am in the process of building my first Bowser engine, = an I-1 decapod. I've never done any painting before, and I'm still in = the process of finding the right airbrush. I've narrowed my choice down = to Paasche, but can't decide on the model. Any suggestions? Next, I = have the deluxe kit, and it makes no mention of how to fasten all of the = detail parts. What type of adhesive should I use? CA? Solder? = Painting is an issue that is still out in the distance, but is looming = ever larger. One last thing to add to the mess of questions, What's = all this business I've heard about "Helix Humpers"?. = Many thanks = Matt Link ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1AD6B.BF0EAB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg, List,
           &n= bsp;   =20 I am in the process of building my first Bowser engine, an I-1 = decapod. =20 I've never done any painting before, and I'm still in the process of = finding the=20 right airbrush.  I've narrowed my choice down to Paasche, but can't = decide=20 on the model.  Any suggestions?   Next, I have the deluxe = kit,=20 and it makes no mention of how to fasten all of the detail parts.  = What=20 type of adhesive should I use?  CA?  Solder?  Painting is = an=20 issue that is still out in the distance, but is looming ever = larger.  One=20 last thing to add to the mess of questions,  What's all this = business I've=20 heard about "Helix Humpers"?.
            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             Many = thanks
            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     Matt=20 Link
 
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1AD6B.BF0EAB00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:53:59 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s --------------CEBEA30C17F69598CE7C1DC2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alright. I must enter what appears from a small sample (of two) to be a minority opinion. I have used a Pasche model H for over 35 years and have been very happy with it. The model H is their single action brush, i.e. the trigger only adjusts the amount of air. The amount of paint is controlled by a screw action nozzle tip. I have used both, having borrowed a dual action on occasion from a friend (when I forgot to bring by tool box keys to the club room). I see two big advantages to the single action. First, all of the moving parts are external to the brush, making it much easier to clean. An improperly cleaned brush will give very poor results. Second, the dual action requires a very steady finger to keep the flow of paint and air consistent. They are really designed for water color artists (remember Playboy's Vargas girls?). For spraying broad areas with lacquers like Floquil, presetting the amount of paint and varying only the air during a painting session works a lot better. Lacquers are likely to really gum up the delicate internal parts of a dual action brush. In addition you have the lesser consideration that a single action brush will be less expensive. The choice of brush type is the only minority opinion I have. I concur with both of the other posters about solder or ACC. Bowser's newest locos have Zamak boilers which makes soldering almost impossible. But it remains a good idea, if not a necessity, for the few places where you will join brass to brass. I have put Helix humpers (available from Bowser) in two of my L1's. They do not increase (or decrease) pulling power, but do make performance smoother and make the loco much quieter. Bowsers with their DC70's are notoriously loud. TJ LInk wrote: > Greg, List, I am in the process of building my first > Bowser engine, an I-1 decapod. I've never done any painting before, > and I'm still in the process of finding the right airbrush. I've > narrowed my choice down to Paasche, but can't decide on the model. > Any suggestions? Next, I have the deluxe kit, and it makes no > mention of how to fasten all of the detail parts. What type of > adhesive should I use? CA? Solder? Painting is an issue that is > still out in the distance, but is looming ever larger. One last thing > to add to the mess of questions, What's all this business I've heard > about "Helix > Humpers"?. > Many > thanks > Matt Link -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== --------------CEBEA30C17F69598CE7C1DC2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alright.  I must enter what appears from a small sample (of two) to be a minority opinion.   I have used a Pasche model H for over 35 years and have been very happy with it.  The model H is their single action brush, i.e. the trigger only adjusts the amount of air.  The amount of paint is controlled by a screw action nozzle tip. I have used both, having borrowed a dual action on occasion from a friend (when I forgot to bring by tool box keys to the club room).

I see two big advantages to the single action.  First, all of the moving parts are external to the brush, making it much easier to clean.  An improperly cleaned brush will give very poor results.  Second, the dual action requires a very steady finger to keep the flow of paint and air consistent.  They are really designed for water color artists (remember Playboy's Vargas girls?).  For spraying broad areas with lacquers like Floquil, presetting the amount of paint and varying only the air during a painting session works a lot better.  Lacquers are likely to really gum up the delicate internal parts of a dual action brush.

In addition you have the lesser consideration that a single action brush will be less expensive.

The choice of brush type is the only minority opinion I have.  I concur with both of the other posters about solder or ACC.  Bowser's newest locos have Zamak boilers which makes soldering almost impossible.  But it remains a good idea, if not a necessity, for the few places where you will join brass to brass.

I have put Helix humpers (available from Bowser) in two of my L1's.  They do not increase (or decrease) pulling power, but do make performance smoother and make the loco much quieter.  Bowsers with their DC70's are notoriously loud.
 
 

TJ LInk wrote:

Greg, List,                I am in the process of building my first Bowser engine, an I-1 decapod.  I've never done any painting before, and I'm still in the process of finding the right airbrush.  I've narrowed my choice down to Paasche, but can't decide on the model.  Any suggestions?   Next, I have the deluxe kit, and it makes no mention of how to fasten all of the detail parts.  What type of adhesive should I use?  CA?  Solder?  Painting is an issue that is still out in the distance, but is looming ever larger.  One last thing to add to the mess of questions,  What's all this business I've heard about "Helix Humpers"?.                                                                                                            Many thanks                                                                                                                                Matt Link 

--
 

Regards,

Andy Miller
asmiller@mitre.org

==================================================
  --------------CEBEA30C17F69598CE7C1DC2-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:29:09 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Sullivan Subject: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Hi all, I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. What a neat place! And, on the airbrush thread: I heard somewhere that it is a good idea to *store* your airbrush in a bottle of laquer thinner... is this true? If so, would it be a good idea to store it in laquer thinner for a long period of time, or only for cleaning purposes (a few minutes/hours or so)? THANKS! Ben Sullivan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:34:36 -0500 Bruce:- They were all painted DGLE at one time or another! The 10 tuscan jobs and the "bronze" 3768 were short term aberrations. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." To: "Sam Caliciotti Jr." ; Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s > > Were any Pennsy K-4s ever painted Bruswick Green? Or were they all > >black? > > > >Thanks, Sam > > Um Sam, > > I'll do Gregg one better and point out to you that no (none, zero, zip) PRR > engines were black, no steamers, no electrics and no diseasals (diesel in > Thomas the Tank Engine parlance). Time to hedge that first statement, Very > early paint schemes may have featured black (circa 1900) and there is some > debate about PRR ordered diseasels being painted black in prep for the PC > merger, but then, they weren't PRR...and there are just as many rumors > about shops using up DGLE well into the PC era... > > The PRRT&HS published a guide to painting and lettering PRR steam many > years ago, but it is available in reprint form throught the PRRT&HS. A > search of the PRR talk archive for "color" and "steam" ought to get you a > complete guide to painting Pennsy steam as well. If you have trouble > finding it, give me a holler and I'll forward mine off list. > > Gregg was actually wrong in one respect (he said all K4s were DGLE), as > there is evidence that a few K4s were painted Tuscan to match the passenger > fleet and one of the streamlined K4s was painted bronze (although there is > HUGE debate about what color "bronze" was at the time!). > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:55:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: Jerry Britton On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. > What a neat place! > I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. As for the site... The domain is registered in Massachusetts. However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:22:33 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is visible from NY RT 440? Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > > > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of > > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are > > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > > > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. > > What a neat place! > > > I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > > As for the site... > > The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > > However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) > and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:28:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: Jerry Britton On 2/4/02 3:22 PM, Bennett Levin (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of > Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is > visible from NY RT 440? I don't think so, although I am largely unfamiliar with that area. My thoughts in thinking it was Philadelphia, along the Delaware: 1) The water is fairly smooth. This is somewhat inland. There are tidal affects visible, but not visible effects from waves. Wouldn't the Staten Island location be subject to choppiness? Isn't it closer to the ocean? 2) In one view a green can buoy can be seen near the opposite shore. In another, a red can buoy near the near side. This suggests we are looking downstream. One of the primary rules of navigation is "red right returning" -- keep the red buoys to the right as you proceed inland. 3) Assuming the above is correct, and we are looking downstream, the ore loaders and petrol plants are on the opposite, or east side of the river. I also noted the structure on top of a few poles. While these may be seen in the northeast, they are much more prevalent in the bayou area of, say, New Orleans. Also, the passenger boats do not look like the Mississippi type. However, they are not large enough to be ocean-going...especially when you look at the size of the lifeboats. These could be ferries around NYC, or Philadelphia, or somewhere on the Chesapeake Bay. I've piloted boats on the northern half of the latter and there is no such boat graveyard in that range of territory. > > Jerry Britton wrote: >> >> On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: >> >>> I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. >>> (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay >>> concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be >>> of >>> no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there >>> are >>> some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva >>> region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize >>> configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a >>> look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. >>> >>> http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm >>> >>> BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not >>> reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that >>> too. >>> What a neat place! >>> >> I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. >> >> As for the site... >> >> The domain is registered in Massachusetts. >> >> However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) >> and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is >> along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the >> like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. >> ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:40:08 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Bennett asks: >Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of >Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is >visible from NY RT 440? Yeh, I thought the background to the photos looked a lot like the refineries around Elizabeth NJ. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:46:15 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Arthur Kill is totally inland and protected from the NY Bay side of the island. The Kill is fully Nanagable with large ships serving serveral refinerys including Hess. The LV had its coal docks to the south on the southside of the Outerbridge Crossing Bridge. Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 2/4/02 3:22 PM, Bennett Levin (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > > > Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of > > Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is > > visible from NY RT 440? > > I don't think so, although I am largely unfamiliar with that area. > > My thoughts in thinking it was Philadelphia, along the Delaware: > > 1) The water is fairly smooth. This is somewhat inland. There are tidal > affects visible, but not visible effects from waves. Wouldn't the Staten > Island location be subject to choppiness? Isn't it closer to the ocean? > > 2) In one view a green can buoy can be seen near the opposite shore. In > another, a red can buoy near the near side. This suggests we are looking > downstream. One of the primary rules of navigation is "red right returning" > -- keep the red buoys to the right as you proceed inland. > > 3) Assuming the above is correct, and we are looking downstream, the ore > loaders and petrol plants are on the opposite, or east side of the river. > > I also noted the structure on top of a few poles. While these may be seen in > the northeast, they are much more prevalent in the bayou area of, say, New > Orleans. > > Also, the passenger boats do not look like the Mississippi type. However, > they are not large enough to be ocean-going...especially when you look at > the size of the lifeboats. These could be ferries around NYC, or > Philadelphia, or somewhere on the Chesapeake Bay. I've piloted boats on the > northern half of the latter and there is no such boat graveyard in that > range of territory. > > > > Jerry Britton wrote: > >> > >> On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > >> > >>> I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > >>> (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > >>> concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be > >>> of > >>> no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there > >>> are > >>> some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > >>> region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > >>> configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > >>> look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > >>> > >>> http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > >>> > >>> BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > >>> reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that > >>> too. > >>> What a neat place! > >>> > >> I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > >> > >> As for the site... > >> > >> The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > >> > >> However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) > >> and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > >> along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > >> like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > >> ----------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:45:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: Jerry Britton On 2/4/02 3:46 PM, Bennett Levin (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > Arthur Kill is totally inland and protected from the NY Bay side of the > island. The Kill is fully Nanagable with large ships serving serveral > refinerys including Hess. The LV had its coal docks to the south on the > southside of the Outerbridge Crossing Bridge. > >> 2) In one view a green can buoy can be seen near the opposite shore. In >> another, a red can buoy near the near side. This suggests we are looking >> downstream. One of the primary rules of navigation is "red right returning" >> -- keep the red buoys to the right as you proceed inland. >> Very plausible, then, as the buoys would be oriented correctly if I understand your description of the area. The types of boats are also correct. Anyone wanna restore a PRR tug? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:45:52 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Cyber info on Cabin car lettering standards Jerry and all, Is there any way we can add the PRR Cabin Car paint and lettering information to your website so we can eliminate the confusion and mis-information and make it available to all who wish to know? We can then thin out some of the threads that start out as one question and then head right into the pool cuppola color... We could also mention the special cases of cabin cars that fall into the catagory of. "I have seen a picture of a cabin car with only the side sheathing painted..." I am not saying to COPY what was written in the Keystone word for word but a good little cyber-article would be helpful for members on this list. For the Record... The Yellow cuppolas were for through pool service circa 1961/2 and the gray cuppola circa 1963 were for through pools in electrified territories. The east/west and north/south is skewed information unless you consider the electrified territories as only north/south pool... The practice lasted until the merger. Again, it would be nice to have this information available to all perhaps on your website. Just a thought... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:53:22 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos A closer examination reveals even more information. The large smokestack could very well be the one at the Hess Refinery which is west of the yard on the far side of the Kill. The two large Storage tanks could be those to the north of the site where LPG is stored. I think I might be close. Over the past serval years the yard has been thined out. I was there 10-15 years ago and there was PRR stuff there. Bennett Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 2/4/02 3:22 PM, Bennett Levin (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > > > Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of > > Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is > > visible from NY RT 440? > > I don't think so, although I am largely unfamiliar with that area. > > My thoughts in thinking it was Philadelphia, along the Delaware: > > 1) The water is fairly smooth. This is somewhat inland. There are tidal > affects visible, but not visible effects from waves. Wouldn't the Staten > Island location be subject to choppiness? Isn't it closer to the ocean? > > 2) In one view a green can buoy can be seen near the opposite shore. In > another, a red can buoy near the near side. This suggests we are looking > downstream. One of the primary rules of navigation is "red right returning" > -- keep the red buoys to the right as you proceed inland. > > 3) Assuming the above is correct, and we are looking downstream, the ore > loaders and petrol plants are on the opposite, or east side of the river. > > I also noted the structure on top of a few poles. While these may be seen in > the northeast, they are much more prevalent in the bayou area of, say, New > Orleans. > > Also, the passenger boats do not look like the Mississippi type. However, > they are not large enough to be ocean-going...especially when you look at > the size of the lifeboats. These could be ferries around NYC, or > Philadelphia, or somewhere on the Chesapeake Bay. I've piloted boats on the > northern half of the latter and there is no such boat graveyard in that > range of territory. > > > > Jerry Britton wrote: > >> > >> On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > >> > >>> I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > >>> (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > >>> concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be > >>> of > >>> no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there > >>> are > >>> some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > >>> region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > >>> configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > >>> look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > >>> > >>> http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > >>> > >>> BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > >>> reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that > >>> too. > >>> What a neat place! > >>> > >> I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > >> > >> As for the site... > >> > >> The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > >> > >> However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) > >> and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > >> along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > >> like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > >> ----------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:51:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: Jerry Britton On 2/4/02 3:53 PM, Bennett Levin (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > A closer examination reveals even more information. The large smokestack > could very well be the one at the Hess Refinery which is west of the > yard on the far side of the Kill. The two large Storage tanks could be > those to the north of the site where LPG is stored. > > I think I might be close. Over the past serval years the yard has been > thined out. I was there 10-15 years ago and there was PRR stuff there. > I was just notified off-list...the site is in New Orleans. Oh well! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:57:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cyber info on Cabin car lettering standards From: Jerry Britton On 2/4/02 3:45 PM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > Is there any way we can add the PRR Cabin Car paint and lettering information > to your website so we can eliminate the confusion and mis-information and make > it available to all who wish to know? We can then thin out some of the threads > that start out as one question and then head right into the pool cuppola > color... We could also mention the special cases of cabin cars that fall into > the catagory of. "I have seen a picture of a cabin car with only the side > sheathing painted..." I am not saying to COPY what was written in the Keystone > word for word but a good little cyber-article would be helpful for members on > this list. > > For the Record... The Yellow cuppolas were for through pool service circa > 1961/2 and the gray cuppola circa 1963 were for through pools in electrified > territories. The east/west and north/south is skewed information unless you > consider the electrified territories as only north/south pool... The practice > lasted until the merger. Again, it would be nice to have this information > available to all perhaps on your website. > Absolutely! Always welcome donors to the site. All that is needed is someone to collect the info and forward to me...to expedite its posting. Greg, do you want to head this up? (please!) If you know HTML, great. Otherwise forward descriptive text to me and I'll tag it. Can you provide scans? I prefer 100dpi JPEG's. This would be a nice addition to the Cabin Car database that I already server. BTW: There have always been known errors in the Freight Equipment Paint Schemes page. I have the Keystone with the article on same and will be updating shortly. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:59:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Cyber info on Cabin car lettering standards Greg, Good idea! Along with the text add a photo of a cabin that represents what is being described. I am sure there is a pic of each scheme available some where. If no photos, a color drawing would be useful as well.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:12:19 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos --- Benjamin Sullivan wrote: > [...] but it seems that in > some of the shots there are > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by > PRR in the Delmarva > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these > pictures, I recognize > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may > be of interest. Compare to http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/03/075.jpg > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm Some of those tugs seem to have rather tall pilot houses. Somewhere I read that that is a sure sign of a RR tug. Tall pilot house so as to be able to see over the cars on the car-float. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 4 Feb 2002 16:27:32 EST From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] Boat Yard Photos O'Boyle gives the location as the Mississippi River at New Orleans. SEE http://oboylerphoto.com/ruins and then read the TEXT. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:43:57 -0500 Jerry and list: I lived in New Orleans three times and worked for the PRR there twice, and can tell you that there is no smokestack as tall as the one in the photo, nor was there ever an ore or coal loader there, although the device I see near the oil tanks looks like it may be a Seatrain loader. There was one of those in New Orleans, but it was south of town. Some of the tugs are definitely railroad tugs (high wheelhouse). There were no railroad carfloat activities in New Orleans after the Huey Long Bridge was built in the 1930's. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Benjamin Sullivan" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > > > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of > > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are > > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > > > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. > > What a neat place! > > > I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > > As for the site... > > The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > > However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) > and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:52:00 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos The coal loader could be the one at Port Reading also across from the "yard". I think I might be right! There were two coal (McMylers) dumpers on Arthur Kill. The PRR had its at South Amboy. Berwind dumped at Harsimus Cove. LV at Perth Amboy on Arthur Kill, and the CNJ at pier 18 in Jersey City. Bennett Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > > Jerry and list: > > I lived in New Orleans three times and worked for the PRR there twice, and > can tell you that there is no smokestack as tall as the one in the photo, > nor was there ever an ore or coal loader there, although the device I see > near the oil tanks looks like it may be a Seatrain loader. There was one of > those in New Orleans, but it was south of town. Some of the tugs are > definitely railroad tugs (high wheelhouse). There were no railroad carfloat > activities in New Orleans after the Huey Long Bridge was built in the > 1930's. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "Benjamin Sullivan" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" > > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 2:55 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > > > On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > > > > > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel > photos. > > > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > > > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would > be of > > > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots > there are > > > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > > > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > > > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. > Take a > > > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the > ships. > > > > > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > > > > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does > not > > > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on > that too. > > > What a neat place! > > > > > I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > > > > As for the site... > > > > The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > > > > However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, > etc.) > > and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > > along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > > like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > For brass collectors... > > http://www.brasstrains.net > > Free serving of railroad web sites... > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:06:00 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C1ADAE.FC178880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I concur with Andy on the use of the single action airbrush for painting = models, particularly for a beginner. You can do an expert job painting = with the "H" model brush (even a less expensive brand like Wren or = Badger) easier than you can with the double acting brush. It is easier = to learn the techniques of painting with a single action brush because = the only variables are your distance to the object and the amount of air = you are using. The volume of paint is "fixed" by the nozzle adjustment. = Once you have the basic painting technique down pat, get a second = airbrush - a double acting - to use for delicate weathering, shading = etc. Any compressor putting out 28 + PSI will be suitable. Make sure you get = a regulator and water trap also. All these parts are available = separately cheaper than trying to get a compressor with those parts = attached. If you get a used diaphragm compressor, take the thing apart = and physically check the diaphragm for wear. They can appear to be = working and have cracks in the rubber. Brand name compressors can be = repaired easily because parts are available. =20 If you use Floquil or other lacquer base paints, use lacquer thinner to = clean the brush and bottles or paint cups but only use the paint's brand = name thinner for thinning the paint. Sometimes lacquer thinner will = cause paint to clot or curdle when used as a thinner, hence use only the = manufacturer's brand thinner. I wrote a very lengthy article on the use and theory of airbrush = painting with a review of available equipment, published in the July and = August issues of RMC in 1982. The theory of operation and the use of = the single and double acting airbrushes is extensively covered. No one = has since done an article that offers more detailed information than = what is available in the July 1982 issue. If you can find a copy, it = will answer any questions you may have. I will be glad to answer any individual questions off list. Lew Matt ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andrew S. Miller=20 To: TJ LInk=20 Cc: mahlkov@gtcom.net ; PRR-Talk=20 Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Alright. I must enter what appears from a small sample (of two) to be = a minority opinion. I have used a Pasche model H for over 35 years and = have been very happy with it. The model H is their single action brush, = i.e. the trigger only adjusts the amount of air. The amount of paint is = controlled by a screw action nozzle tip. I have used both, having = borrowed a dual action on occasion from a friend (when I forgot to bring = by tool box keys to the club room).=20 I see two big advantages to the single action. First, all of the = moving parts are external to the brush, making it much easier to clean. = An improperly cleaned brush will give very poor results. Second, the = dual action requires a very steady finger to keep the flow of paint and = air consistent. They are really designed for water color artists = (remember Playboy's Vargas girls?). For spraying broad areas with = lacquers like Floquil, presetting the amount of paint and varying only = the air during a painting session works a lot better. Lacquers are = likely to really gum up the delicate internal parts of a dual action = brush.=20 In addition you have the lesser consideration that a single action = brush will be less expensive.=20 The choice of brush type is the only minority opinion I have. I = concur with both of the other posters about solder or ACC. Bowser's = newest locos have Zamak boilers which makes soldering almost impossible. = But it remains a good idea, if not a necessity, for the few places = where you will join brass to brass.=20 I have put Helix humpers (available from Bowser) in two of my L1's. = They do not increase (or decrease) pulling power, but do make = performance smoother and make the loco much quieter. Bowsers with their = DC70's are notoriously loud.=20 =20 =20 TJ LInk wrote:=20 Greg, List, I am in the process of building my first = Bowser engine, an I-1 decapod. I've never done any painting before, and = I'm still in the process of finding the right airbrush. I've narrowed = my choice down to Paasche, but can't decide on the model. Any = suggestions? Next, I have the deluxe kit, and it makes no mention of = how to fasten all of the detail parts. What type of adhesive should I = use? CA? Solder? Painting is an issue that is still out in the = distance, but is looming ever larger. One last thing to add to the mess = of questions, What's all this business I've heard about "Helix = Humpers"?. = Many thanks = = Matt Link=20 --=20 =20 Regards,=20 Andy Miller=20 asmiller@mitre.org=20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C1ADAE.FC178880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I concur with Andy on the use of the = single action=20 airbrush for painting models, particularly for a beginner.  You can = do an=20 expert job painting with the "H" model brush (even a less expensive = brand=20 like Wren or Badger) easier than you can with the double acting=20 brush.  It is easier to learn the techniques of painting with a = single=20 action brush because the only variables are your distance to the object = and the=20 amount of air you are using.  The volume of paint is "fixed" by the = nozzle=20 adjustment.  Once you have the basic painting technique down pat, = get a=20 second airbrush - a double acting - to use for delicate weathering, = shading=20 etc.
 
Any compressor putting out 28 = + PSI will be=20 suitable.  Make sure you get a regulator and water trap also.  = All=20 these parts are available separately cheaper than trying to get a = compressor=20 with those parts attached.  If you get a used diaphragm compressor, = take=20 the thing apart and physically check the diaphragm for wear.  They = can=20 appear to be working and have cracks in the rubber.  Brand name = compressors=20 can be repaired easily because parts are available. 
 
If you use Floquil or other lacquer = base paints,=20 use lacquer thinner to clean the brush and bottles or paint cups but = only use=20 the paint's brand name thinner for thinning the paint.  Sometimes = lacquer=20 thinner will cause paint to clot or curdle when used as a thinner, hence = use=20 only the manufacturer's brand thinner.
 
I wrote a very lengthy article on the = use and=20 theory of airbrush painting with a review of available equipment, = published in=20 the July and August issues of RMC in 1982.  The theory of operation = and the=20 use of the single and double acting airbrushes is extensively = covered.  No=20 one has since done an article that offers more detailed information than = what is=20 available in the July 1982 issue.  If you can find a copy, it will = answer=20 any questions you may have.
 
I will be glad to answer any individual = questions=20 off list.
 
Lew Matt
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andrew S.=20 Miller
To: TJ LInk
Cc: mahlkov@gtcom.net ; PRR-Talk
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 = 12:53=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy = k-4s

Alright.  I must enter what appears from a small = sample=20 (of two) to be a minority opinion.   I have used a Pasche = model H=20 for over 35 years and have been very happy with it.  The model H = is their=20 single action brush, i.e. the trigger only adjusts the amount of = air. =20 The amount of paint is controlled by a screw action nozzle tip. I have = used=20 both, having borrowed a dual action on occasion from a friend (when I = forgot=20 to bring by tool box keys to the club room).=20

I see two big advantages to the single action.  First, all of = the=20 moving parts are external to the brush, making it much easier to = clean. =20 An improperly cleaned brush will give very poor results.  Second, = the=20 dual action requires a very steady finger to keep the flow of paint = and air=20 consistent.  They are really designed for water color artists = (remember=20 Playboy's Vargas girls?).  For spraying broad areas with lacquers = like=20 Floquil, presetting the amount of paint and varying only the air = during a=20 painting session works a lot better.  Lacquers are likely to = really gum=20 up the delicate internal parts of a dual action brush.=20

In addition you have the lesser consideration that a single action = brush=20 will be less expensive.=20

The choice of brush type is the only minority opinion I have.  = I=20 concur with both of the other posters about solder or ACC.  = Bowser's=20 newest locos have Zamak boilers which makes soldering almost = impossible. =20 But it remains a good idea, if not a necessity, for the few places = where you=20 will join brass to brass.=20

I have put Helix humpers (available from Bowser) in two of my = L1's. =20 They do not increase (or decrease) pulling power, but do make = performance=20 smoother and make the loco much quieter.  Bowsers with their = DC70's are=20 notoriously loud.
 
 =20

TJ LInk wrote:=20

Greg,=20 = List,           &n= bsp;   =20 I am in the process of building my first Bowser engine, an I-1=20 decapod.  I've never done any painting before, and I'm still in = the=20 process of finding the right airbrush.  I've narrowed my choice = down to=20 Paasche, but can't decide on the model.  Any = suggestions?  =20 Next, I have the deluxe kit, and it makes no mention of how to = fasten all of=20 the detail parts.  What type of adhesive should I use?  = CA? =20 Solder?  Painting is an issue that is still out in the = distance, but is=20 looming ever larger.  One last thing to add to the mess of=20 questions,  What's all this business I've heard about "Helix=20 = Humpers"?.          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;           =20 Many=20 = thanks           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      =20 Matt Link 

--
 =20

Regards,=20

Andy Miller
asmiller@mitre.org=20 =

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D
 =20

------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C1ADAE.FC178880-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 19:42:35 -0500 From: "H.&S." Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Hi all.... There is a former PRR tug in this collection of photos. See...... http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/by104.jpg This is one of the former U.S. Army / former PRR tugs that were used on the Delmarva's Cape Charles-Little Creek operation. One hint is the tugs' color. Another is its size (larger than most RR tugs) and another is the bumper framing on the sides.Its probably either the Bloxom or Cheriton. There were five tugs of the same design that PRR owned. All have been gone for decades.(late 1970's early-mid 1980's?) The PRR bought these just after WWII. I have copies of pictures of both if anyone wants to see. I see a carfloat (or rather the house for one, is the rest underwater?) But i can't tell well who it had belonged to. Til Later Hank Mummert Benjamin Sullivan wrote: > Hi all, > > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. > What a neat place! > > And, on the airbrush thread: I heard somewhere that it is a good idea to > *store* your airbrush in a bottle of laquer thinner... is this true? If so, > would it be a good idea to store it in laquer thinner for a long period of > time, or only for cleaning purposes (a few minutes/hours or so)? > > THANKS! > > Ben Sullivan > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 22:41:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: aurora7@juno.com I believe the derelict area is along the Jersey shore of the the Hudson, in a place called "Black Tom". About 20 years ago it waslittered with old NYC steam tugs and EL passenger ferries. The South Street Seaport Museum has had archaeologists out there to draw and measure the wrecks that are of historical value, but sadly, restoration of a ship makes restoring a steam locomotive look cheap! Either by collisions with each other as they rock on the tides, or from passing ship wakes, or just plain old hull decay, these great old boats are disappearing into the Hudson muck quicker than they can be slvaged or stripped, or preserved. I agree that the wrecks would be a great place to document and explore, but then I think of the river rats that call them home....UGH! How the photographer got access to the site is another question. From what I've read, it is strictly closed to the public as a dangerous place. Still, everytime I think of the scene in "Funny Girl", where Barbara Streisand rides out to the "Berengaria" aboard a NYC steam tug, I get pangs to see one saved for posterity. That age has passed before our eyes for lack of capital to stop or stagger the march of time. I wishes were iron horses..... Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "I'm not afraid of death. I just don't want to be there when it happens." -Woody Allen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:44:22 -0500 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Yes it does appear to be on the SI side of the Arthur Kill. The Con ED power plant in the distance is opposite the Fresh Kills Landfill, and across from the former CNJ's "Chemical Coast". You could see parts of the ruins from the old Port Reading Coal Dumper, and a better view from behind Stoldt Terminals in Perth Amboy near the Outerbridge. I believe there are actually several boat grave yards within a few miles on the SI side of the Arthur Kill. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bennett Levin" To: "Jerry Britton" Cc: "Benjamin Sullivan" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of > Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is > visible from NY RT 440? > > Jerry Britton wrote: > > > > On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > > > > > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > > > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > > > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of > > > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are > > > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > > > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > > > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > > > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > > > > > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > > > > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > > > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. > > > What a neat place! > > > > > I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > > > > As for the site... > > > > The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > > > > However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) > > and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > > along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > > like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > For brass collectors... > > http://www.brasstrains.net > > Free serving of railroad web sites... > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:09:00 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Black tom was also the location of the infamous WW1 munitions explosion. A check of the Deloran GPS atlas shows the Port Reading Yard and Coal dock directly opposite the "yard" that I described. It is accessed from Arthur Kill Road west ofc NY 440 just south of the Fresh Kills Landfill where the WTC debris is being taken. All the pieces including the LPG tanks and the tall stack and the coal dumper seem to make it fit. aurora7@juno.com wrote: > > I believe the derelict area is along the Jersey shore of the the Hudson, > in a place called "Black Tom". About 20 years ago it waslittered with > old NYC steam tugs and EL passenger ferries. The South Street Seaport > Museum has had archaeologists out there to draw and measure the wrecks > that are of historical value, but sadly, restoration of a ship makes > restoring a steam locomotive look cheap! Either by collisions with each > other as they rock on the tides, or from passing ship wakes, or just > plain old hull decay, these great old boats are disappearing into the > Hudson muck quicker than they can be slvaged or stripped, or preserved. > I agree that the wrecks would be a great place to document and explore, > but then I think of the river rats that call them home....UGH! > How the photographer got access to the site is another question. From > what I've read, it is strictly closed to the public as a dangerous place. > Still, everytime I think of the scene in "Funny Girl", where Barbara > Streisand rides out to the "Berengaria" aboard a NYC steam tug, I get > pangs to see one saved for posterity. That age has passed before our > eyes for lack of capital to stop or stagger the march of time. I wishes > were iron horses..... > > > > Richard Glueck > Peace of the Planet Farm > Winterport, Maine > > "I'm not afraid of death. I just don't want to be there > when it happens." -Woody Allen > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:30:19 EST From: LKeough107@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Sam To add to what Bruce said about the steam color guide, I ordered one from the Winter 2001 Keystone interchange. I received it in the mail today and am pleased with what I received. The address Chuck Blardone, 2886 Wimbledon Ln, Lancaster Pa 17601-1454. It cost $4 but in my opinion well worth it for getting accurate PRR steam. I do not mean this to be an advertisement but thought it might help further explain Bruce's answer. If I crossed a line somewhere sorry. Steve Keough ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:54:38 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations From: "Douglas Nelson" What was the purpose of reversing the location of generators and headlights on PRR steam locomotives? When was this change made? Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:42:27 -0500 Doug, Servicing the turbo-generator was the main reason for the change. With the turbo up on top of the smokebox access was difficult, time consuming and somewhat dangerous. During WWII when the change in location was initiated, maintenance time was critical to the war effort. In order to make this item easier and safer to maintain the headlight was raised to the top of the smokebox and the generator brought down in front and a "chin platform" for the service man to stand on was added to the lower smokebox front. This put the turbo and most of it's plumbing a convenient level to be maintained rather easily and quickly. This practice continuued after the war, although not all locomotives received this treatment. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Nelson [mailto:dougnelson@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:55 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations What was the purpose of reversing the location of generators and headlights on PRR steam locomotives? When was this change made? Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:53:00 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Photos Posted From: Jerry Britton Though taken on a cold rainy day this past December, I have posted some digital pics. These may be viewed by searching the database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ Included: * what's left of the "emergency water stop" at Cove, Pa. * Sherman's Creek bridge and VIEW interlocking * Duncannon passenger station ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:09:13 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Northern Central Chapter Meeting This Sunday From: Jerry Britton This Sunday, February 10, the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS will meet at 1:30 p.m. The PRR public is invited to attend, even if not a member of the Society or the Chapter. This will be the first meeting in a new meeting location...the Otterbein United Methodist Church. This move is to alleviate the rising costs of meeting at the Yorktown Hotel. The church is off of Philadelphia Street, about three blocks west of George Street. The February meeting is the annual "LCL Meeting", where attendees are encouraged to bring unusual PRR railroadiana or models to share with all. As an example, one year it was quite a site to see a half dozen grown men crawling all over a 1" = 100' valuation map of the entire Enola Yard, stretched across 15' of floor! This year I will be taking two "Board of Directors Inspection Trip" books from the 1950's which include all sorts of unique photos and track charts not found elsewhere. I'll also have a book on the sale of the Harrisburg Steel Plant from the 1950's, which includes a map of the railroad trackage through the plant, plus the sizes of most of the buildings making up the plant. Different! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: [PRR] H10 dome dimensions Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:10:15 -0500 Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of the steam & sand domes on an H10 (length/width/height at widest points)? I'm trying to convert a Bachmann consolidation, and am going to make them out of ABS rod. Thanks! --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:41:35 -0500 Roger:- Yes, I certainly DO mean the Pennsylvania Railroad. The PRR maintained a Sales Office in New Orleans from 1918 to its merger in 1968, and the PC maintained one there during its existence. The first time I was there I was the Office Manager (read Chief Clerk) 1962-1964, the second time I was a Sales Representative 1967-1973 (the last 5 under PC). In between I was a Rate Clerk in Cleveland and a Sales Representative in Baltimore. Prior to working for the railroad I went to Tulane University in New Orleans, which I suppose is why the PRR sent me there. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > In a message dated 2/4/02 3:43:32 PM Central Standard Time, mahlkov@gtcom.net > writes: > > << I lived in New Orleans three times and worked for the PRR there twice >> > > You worked for the PRR???? in New Orleans????? You mean Pennsylvania > Railroad?????? > > Roger > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl M." Subject: [PRR] airbrushing G scale Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:04:28 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an airbrush......I am = doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so the areas to be = painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what kind of airbrush = set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" x 5" x 6" = and there are many of them to do..... I will also track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite = "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that tip! Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 I have noted all the postings ref = a newbie=20 with an airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, = gauge 1) so=20 the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what = kind of=20 airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" = x 5" x=20 6" and there are many of them to do.....
  I will also track down that RMC = July/Aug 82=20 issue thru my favorite "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that=20 tip!
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th = scale
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:18:02 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale Lew asks: > Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an >airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so >the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what >kind of airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car >is 16" x 5" x 6" and there are many of them to do..... I will also >track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite "old paper" >dealer. Sounds about right for the old "auto" spray can ...you know, the kind Walthers paints their HO and N scale stuff with as well ;^) Actually, I'm serious about the size of the spray can. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:46:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale Hey Earl. As you know I am in G Scale as well as most all the other scales. I use my (going on 20+ years) reliable Paasche H series with a #3 tip on all the above scales. A #5 tip maybe better suited for the large stuff but my #3 tip gets the job done just a well. Just adjust the tip open a bit more for larger coverage. I have done F3's, RS's, Geep and my Cabin Cars with no problem .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE:steel mill photos was [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:55:34 -0500 Listers, Forget the ships and boats go to http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm then click on home page and click on the steel mill photos! Get out the Walthers Blast Furnace!!!!! Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:35:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Northern Central Chapter Meeting From: Jerry Britton Since I overlooked it, and two people have asked, the Northern Central Chapter meeting is in York, Pa. Sorry! > This Sunday, February 10, the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS will > meet at 1:30 p.m. The PRR public is invited to attend, even if not a member > of the Society or the Chapter. > > This will be the first meeting in a new meeting location...the Otterbein > United Methodist Church. This move is to alleviate the rising costs of > meeting at the Yorktown Hotel. The church is off of Philadelphia Street, > about three blocks west of George Street. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:54:06 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight In a message "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: > Hi Greg, > > A few weeks back you mentioned Harbor Freight as a source of cheap airbrushes. I searched the web site and only came up with the $60 Pasche. Do you have a model number or some other info on the brush you were talking about? My Badger 150 is a bout to drive me crazy...it keeps clogging badly, which I haven't experineced before, even with Poly Scale...I think it is getting worn out! Happy Rails Bruce< Bruce, Earl and all, Harbor Freight makes a very inexpensive airbrush set that includes a single action external mix airbrush, air can adapter, siphon bottle, and air hose for under 10 dollars. The set is often on sale for around ten dollars (like $4.99). Don't let the price scare you away as the brush works as well as any brush for 5 to 10 times the price. I keep a couple on hand at all times and I hate them because I have to replace them every 5 years or so. The external mix brush is not the best brush for using with acyllics but does work. They also make a brush Model #3200 which is a dual action internal mix brush nearly identical to the Badger #350 and an excellant internal mix airbrush especially at less than 40 dollars. Both brushes include a list of parts to use for replacement parts purposes. I also own a Badger #150 and a Wren External mix brush and I find myself using the "cheap Little" Harbor Frieght single action (like the Badger) brush more often than any other for all types of paint. Remember the clogging is often due to humidity and air temperature and not always the fault of the bruh ....unless the airflow (the little hole in the end) is restricted or has become enlarged changing the airpressure. Bruce check that before you buy another brush. But, as a good "back-up" pickup one of the "cheap little" Harbor Freight brushes, if you have a diffeculty finding one let me know I usually have a spare just in case the one I am using goes gunny in the next 5 years or so, I can send you one.... 3^) Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Zak" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:36:21 -0500 Hi, all. I looked at the Harbor Freight site, and that brush is # 6131-1VGA. Zak ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:54 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight > In a message "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: > > > Hi Greg, > > > > A few weeks back you mentioned Harbor Freight as a source of cheap airbrushes. I searched the web site and only came up with the $60 Pasche. Do you have a model number or some other info on the brush you were talking about? My Badger 150 is a bout to drive me crazy...it keeps clogging badly, which I haven't experineced before, even with Poly Scale...I think it is getting worn out! > > Happy Rails > Bruce< > > Bruce, Earl and all, > > Harbor Freight makes a very inexpensive airbrush set that includes a single action external mix airbrush, air can adapter, siphon bottle, and air hose for under 10 dollars. The set is often on sale for around ten dollars (like $4.99). Don't let the price scare you away as the brush works as well as any brush for 5 to 10 times the price. I keep a couple on hand at all times and I hate them because I have to replace them every 5 years or so. The external mix brush is not the best brush for using with acyllics but does work. They also make a brush Model #3200 which is a dual action internal mix brush nearly identical to the Badger #350 and an excellant internal mix airbrush especially at less than 40 dollars. Both brushes include a list of parts to use for replacement parts purposes. I also own a Badger #150 and a Wren External mix brush and I find myself using the "cheap Little" Harbor Frieght single action (like the Badger) brush more often than any other for all types of paint. > > Remember the clogging is often due to humidity and air temperature and not always the fault of the bruh ....unless the airflow (the little hole in the end) is restricted or has become enlarged changing the airpressure. Bruce check that before you buy another brush. But, as a good "back-up" pickup one of the "cheap little" Harbor Freight brushes, if you have a diffeculty finding one let me know I usually have a spare just in case the one I am using goes gunny in the next 5 years or so, I can send you one.... 3^) > > Greg Martin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Kisala Douglas K 1Lt 31 OSS/INW Subject: [PRR] Bowser G5s listed as back in stock Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:19:16 +0100 Hello list, Bowser's G5s is listed on their web page as being back in stock. Here's the link. http://www.bowser-trains.com/Loco%20Pages/G-5%20PRR.htm Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE:Boat Graveyard Photos Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 08:28:24 -0500 NY Harbor railroad marine expert Tom Flagg says this about the boat graveyard. "Yes, I recognize the boats, it's the Witte marine graveyard in the Arthur Kill, behind Staten Island, kind of the holy grail for marine enthusiasts. Getting in used to require major trespassing, with risk of being chased by some vicious dogs stationed on boats, but I guess it's gotten easier in recent years." Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 05:46:00 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Passenger Shark height From: "Stuart A. Forsyth" Does anyone know the correct height of Pennsy's passenger sharks, preferably from top of rail? Thanks in advance for your kind assistance. -- Stuart A. Forsyth forsyth@usa.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Passenger Shark height Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:44:20 -0500 The BP-20 diagram is on my webiste... Try: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=bp-20-a.gif&sel=die It has the height from top of rail at 14' 10-1/2" Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Stuart A. > Forsyth > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 8:46 AM > To: PRR-TALK > Subject: [PRR] Passenger Shark height > > > Does anyone know the correct height of Pennsy's passenger sharks, > preferably > from top of rail? > > Thanks in advance for your kind assistance. > > -- > Stuart A. Forsyth > forsyth@usa.net > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: [PRR] PRSL Passenger Car Lettering Diagram Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:21:49 -0500 Hi Guys, Looking for a copy of a PRR lettering drawing which shows the general layout for PRSL passenger cars. The drawing I have seen shows the lettering style, spacing between letters, lettering height, and numerals. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated, and as always, any cost involved would be covered. Thanks Buzz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Lucas" Subject: [PRR] Oil storage facility. Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 21:39:10 -0000 List, I am looking for help in locating photos of an Oil storage unit as one would have found along the PRR right-of-way in the late 30's. I have decided to add one to my 24 x 9 foot loft layout, freelance but somewhere around the St Louis area. I have a Walthers Interstate Fuel & Oil kit along with some other bits from Plastruct and I now need to source some prototype information. Any suggestions would be most welcome. Thinks in anticipation. Kind regards , Jim Lucas. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] cranes Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 21:41:49 +0000 A number of questions about cranes: 1. How did a steam operated crane convert steam to power the boom and hoists? 2. Did a self propelled steam crane use self propolsion for moving at the wreck site only? 3. Where was the coal and water stored? 4. What was a typical boiler pressure range? 5. What was the steaming capacity of a steam boiler? 6. How fast would a self propelled crane be able to move? 7. How did the propulsion mechanism work? Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:27:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G5s listed as back in stock From: aurora7@juno.com Outstanding! I hope the LIRR version is also available. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "I'm not afraid of death. I just don't want to be there when it happens." -Woody Allen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 20:27:17 -0500 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] (Steam) cranes ndbprr@att.net wrote: > A number of questions about cranes: > 1. How did a steam operated crane convert steam to power > the boom and hoists? Usual way: steam motor: piston(s) in cylinder(s). > 2. Did a self propelled steam crane use self propolsion > for moving at the wreck site only? Yes. > 3. Where was the coal and water stored? > 4. What was a typical boiler pressure range? > 5. What was the steaming capacity of a steam boiler? 3-5: I dunno. 5 would have been smallish > 6. How fast would a self propelled crane be able to move? Self propelled? Slowly. A few mph > 7. How did the propulsion mechanism work? Same as case 1.... best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] (Steam) cranes Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 22:04:41 -0500 answer to question: 3. Steam cranes pulled a locomotive tender. Some of the oil fired cranes also pulled a tender outfitted for fuel oil. 4. My santa Fe book notes one of their crane's boiler pressure at 130 PSI. 6. Faster than a man can walk. I tried to catch up to one as a kid running after a crane in the Lancaster area cleaning up a mail train wreck at the bridge crossing the Conestoga river. Couldn't catch it! ----- Original Message ----- From: "davep" To: Cc: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] (Steam) cranes > ndbprr@att.net wrote: > > > A number of questions about cranes: > > 1. How did a steam operated crane convert steam to power > > the boom and hoists? > > Usual way: > steam motor: piston(s) in cylinder(s). > > > 2. Did a self propelled steam crane use self propolsion > > for moving at the wreck site only? > > Yes. > > > 3. Where was the coal and water stored? > > 4. What was a typical boiler pressure range? > > 5. What was the steaming capacity of a steam boiler? > > 3-5: I dunno. > 5 would have been smallish > > > 6. How fast would a self propelled crane be able to move? > > Self propelled? > Slowly. A few mph > > > 7. How did the propulsion mechanism work? > > Same as case 1.... > > best > dwp > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 23:32:08 EST Subject: [PRR] Cranes and Derricks In a message dated 2/6/02 8:34:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, davep@quik.com writes: << 1. How did a steam operated crane convert steam to power > the boom and hoists? Usual way: steam motor: piston(s) in cylinder(s). >> answer to # 7: see # 1 - in most cranes same cylinders powered the hoist and an armstrong transmission converted the linkage to propulsion - In other words, you could move the crane - or move the boom or hook, but not at the same time. ( transmission in neutral for towed moves ) Loading coal: My MTH model of a 100 ton crane indicates a roof hatch... In terms of operation - towed to wreck sights and moved about - but the lighter ones (100 to 150 tons - like the MTH Rail King or Tichy model) were often used as local locomotives with a flat or a gondola, or two - one under the boom - to unload ties or pick up trash (sometimes clam shell buckets) you could see crane and gondola "zipping" along at 10-20 MPH, with a gondola under the boom. When operated this way boom was generally in the lead - with operators looking ahead. When towed - the boom was usually (sometimes by rule) trailing - obvious reasons. Also, when "parking" your crane, if it was in wreck service, it was generally next to an engine house with water in the boiler and live steam circulating - so the crew could build the fire on the way - but start work, on arrival, even if the fire was not hot. (also reduced the amount of coal/water consumed getting started0 Also, on the PRR - (Only, as far as I know) Cranes over 100-150 tons (Like the big Athearn or the MTH Premier model) were referred to as "Derricks" Don't claim to be an expert - more than open to additions-corrections Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 02:56:02 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Proto 2000 Alco S1 Hi, I received my Proto 2000 Alco S1 this morning. There are some items that need to be placed but I don't have any pictures from an S1. Can someone tell me which of the items listed below have to be glued on the model? Sunshades all-weather windows armrests radiotor louver lever 3 grills Thanks, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] PCC&StL building (was: information for thesis) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 102 09:34:11 -0500 (EST) Suphoj, I don't have specific information on that building. I would suggest trying the following sources, not necessarily in this order: 1. See if Chicago Union Station has any records. 2. Hagley Museum (Delaware), which has many PRR records. Info on my site. 3. Chicago municipal and/or Illinois state records. 4. Pa. state archives. 5. PRR Technical & Historical Society (info on my site). I am also blind cc:ing your message to a number of acquaintances familiar with Chicago, as well as to prr-talk, an PRR interest group on the 'net. -- Mark s-chancheaw@attbi.com scribit: > Dear Mark, > My name is Suphoj Chancheaw. I am a graduate student in > Architectural Studies at Columbia College Chicago. I am > doing my final project for thesis, which concerns the > history of the specific building located on 300 N.Canal > street in Chicago (now Braun Bottle Company). I have been > trying to find the history information about this site, > but I could not get close to it. I have heard that this > building used to be freight house for P.C.C. and St. L. > railroad company. However, I could not find the specific > evident about this building. > > If you have some information regarding to this building, > or any recommendation for sources of information, please > contact me via this e-mail. I desperately need help. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:38:19 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] cranes Norm asked: >A number of questions about cranes: As noted, anything above about 10 or 20 tons capacity was called a "derrick" not a crane. Here is a link to prr derrick #497013 http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/prr/prr497013alb.jpg which I hope will help illustrate some of the previous answers. BTW, this is a GREAT photo for MOW SPFs . >1. How did a steam operated crane convert steam to power >the boom and hoists? The cylinders were located near the front of the derrick, on either side of the base of the boom. These can barely be seen in this photo. Exhaust went vertically up to the roof (the convoluted pipe fron the cylinder that then angles back slightly). As noted, this was connected through a transmission to turn the winding drums. >2. Did a self propelled steam crane use self propolsion >for moving at the wreck site only? >3. Where was the coal and water stored? The coal bin was in the back of the derrick and access was through a roof hatch. You can see it open in the photo. Note the converted 90F82 tender in the train to provide fuel and water. >4. What was a typical boiler pressure range? >5. What was the steaming capacity of a steam boiler? Note that boiler was a vertical boiler. >6. How fast would a self propelled crane be able to move? >7. How did the propulsion mechanism work? Not too fast...as noted, most self propelled moves were boom first, most towed moves preffered boom trailing. Speed limits differed for boom first (20 mph) and boom trailing (30 mph) as best I can remember (this is in the employee timetables). In HO scale the Tichy model is one of the FINEST plastic kits ever engineered. it gives you great insight into the mechanism and does a credible job of representing a PRR 120 ton derrick. With some mods it might also stand in for a 150 ton derrick. While replaced by heavier derricks in the 30's and 40's on many wreck trains, the 120 ton derricks continued in service on some through the 50s and in some cases I bleieve into the 60s. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:54:32 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] cranes In a message dated 2/7/02 8:44:37 AM Central Standard Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << BTW, this is a GREAT photo for MOW SPFs . and In HO scale the Tichy model is one of the FINEST plastic kits ever engineered. >> Sorry for wasting bandwidth with an Amen message, but Amen to both. Thanks for the URL. Bob Zoeller Bayside, Wisconsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:01:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] cranes From: "William J. Ayers" > From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:38:19 -0600 > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] cranes >> 6. How fast would a self propelled crane be able to move? >> 7. How did the propulsion mechanism work? > > Not too fast...as noted, most self propelled moves were boom first, most > towed moves preffered boom trailing. Speed limits differed for boom first > (20 mph) and boom trailing (30 mph) as best I can remember (this is in the > employee timetables). > This is true for all wreck trains, and regardless whether the boom was first or trailing, they were restricted to 20 mph on curves, according to my ETTs. -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:41:37 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes Fellow listers: Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? What about electrics? Thanks, Vagel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:51:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes From: Jerry Britton On 2/7/02 11:41 AM, Vagel C. Keller, Jr. (vck@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: > Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? What about electrics? > Absolutely! A key resource is Hirsimaki's "Black Gold Black Diamonds" series. But I don't have mine at hand, so I can't give you a definitive list. Definitely EMD E7's and I am pretty sure E8's; Baldwin Sharks and Centipedes; and Alco PA/PB's. Good to hear from you...it's been awhile! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:54:16 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes They were almost all delivered in DGLE until about 1953. E7s, E8s, BP20s, and PAs in the 5 stripe scheme, and FM Erie-builts were delivered in the single stripe scheme for passenger service. Yes Erie-builts were delivered in the single stripe scheme for passenger service, and FPs were delivered in Tuscan Red 5 stripe for freight service! The PRR had an exception to every rule. "Standard RR - my ***"! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." wrote: > Fellow listers: > > Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? What about electrics? > > Thanks, > > Vagel > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:56:05 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes Vagel asks: >Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? Yes, although I leave the specifics to the diseasal experts. Classes I know of fer sure are BP20 sharks (nee BP3), BP60 centipedes, PAs, E7, E8. >What about electrics? Sigh...haven't been listening eh? I this earlier this week ALL electrics were delivered in DGLE and with the exception of a few GG1s in the 50s (Tuscan ar Silver) remained DGLE their entire lives... I just want to know why does this question keep coming up???? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:26:47 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes --On Thursday, February 7, 2002 10:56 -0600 "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > Vagel asks: > >> Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? > > Sigh...haven't been listening eh? ... > I just want to know why does this question keep coming up???? Heh, heh. Mea Culpa! Good Grief, Charlie Brown! The instant internet gratification bug has finally hit me! Perhaps Jerry should create a "short attention span theater" list for archivally-challenged lazy bones like me! Vagel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:40:43 -0500 Listers, ALL, repeat ALL PRR Electrics were delivered in Dark Green Locomotive Enamel -PRR Shade. Some were repainted different colors later in their careers, but ALL were delivered DGLE. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 11:56 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes Vagel asks: >Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? Yes, although I leave the specifics to the diseasal experts. Classes I know of fer sure are BP20 sharks (nee BP3), BP60 centipedes, PAs, E7, E8. >What about electrics? Sigh...haven't been listening eh? I this earlier this week ALL electrics were delivered in DGLE and with the exception of a few GG1s in the 50s (Tuscan ar Silver) remained DGLE their entire lives... I just want to know why does this question keep coming up???? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:56:23 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Signal Corps photos, Part 4, wherein one finds a To avoid repeating a bunch of characters which are constant, note that the images are all at http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/xx/yyy.jpg where xx and yyy are numbers. I will recite only the numbers and some comment as to what the image is. xx=18 yyy= 022 Hospital train loading indoors. Pier 4? 023,024 Inside hospital car 049 String of flat cars, loaded with trucks 050 Trucks on flatcars, troops playing soldiers 052 Officers in a box car 081 Streetcar waiting for a parade to go by. xx=19 yyy= 006 C&O pass. car in background, indoors 036 Jeeps stacked on flatcars. 037 Jeeps stacked on flatcar, different arrangement 042 Tanks on flatcars on pier 043 Tank on MILW flatcar on pier 045 Bombs in doorway of boxcar 046 Forklift, bombs in N&W round-roof boxcar 047 Shells (155 mm?) on pallet, B&O car in background 048 Forklift beside C&NW single-sheathed boxcar 049 Shells (105mm?) in boxcar doorway 058 Forklift handling shells beside boxcars 066-072 Views of a European electric passenger train. Caption says it is Italian, and was shipped to the NY for display at the 1939 World's Fair. Here it is being shipped back to Italy. Note that in 067 there is a PRR GRA (or is it GR?) gondola car, perhaps being used as a coupler adapter. 070 also shows a couple US steel boxcars. xx=20 yyy= 003 Aerial view of terminal looking inland 006 Aerial view of terminal looking along shore xx=21 yyy= 014 Band playing in truck beside passenger car 015 War correspondent sitting in a passenger car 016 Inside a coach 043 Inside a hospital car 044 Ditto 045 Ditto 046 Ditto 053 Steam locomotive in doorway of building 056 Hospital car indoors xx=22 yyy= 074 Coal pier in background ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:00:56 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vondruska Subject: Re: [PRR] PCC&StL building (was: information for thesis) to Mark & Suphoj, The PRR Co. liked the myth that it was a compassionate capitalist who used reason and logic to win others over to their side. They were particularly proud of the myth that they did not engage in hostile takeovers, always taking time to point out that most of its subsidiaries were leased and operated under their original names. This makes looking for information about older rail structures outside of Pennsylvania difficult unless you have an understanding of the company's corporate genealogy. The best surviving version of my Panhandle genealogy is now part of the Hoboes' Guide to the Pennsylvania Railroad that's part of Jerry Britton's Keystone Crossings Pennsylvania Railroad meta site. Mine vanished in the great 800 meg hard chive crash of '99. I'll now attempt memory. I am away from home and not using any reference material so any one reading this please verify any following information before passing it on. The Panhandle wasn't the Panhandle when the line that carried this line that predominately carried freight into the Windy City for the PCC&StL/PRR reached Chicago. PRR Co. gained the connection with the lease of the Columbus, Chicago & Indiana Central RR Co. in 1869 for 999 years, punishment for discussing trackage agreements via Urbana, Ohio, with Jay Gould's Erie Railway. The CC&IC had been the C&IC (Columbus & Indiana Central) until 1864 or 1865 when during a bankruptcy reorganization it merged with the Chicago Air Line and Chicago Great Eastern, giving it a connection between Logansport and Chicago. Chicago was added to its formal corporate name. That's about all I know right now. Tom V. --- Mark Bej wrote: > > Suphoj, > > I don't have specific information on that building. > I would > suggest trying the following sources, not > necessarily in this > order: > 1. See if Chicago Union Station has any records. > 2. Hagley Museum (Delaware), which has many PRR > records. > Info on my site. > 3. Chicago municipal and/or Illinois state records. > 4. Pa. state archives. > 5. PRR Technical & Historical Society (info on my > site). > I am also blind cc:ing your message to a number of > acquaintances > familiar with Chicago, as well as to prr-talk, an > PRR interest > group on the 'net. > > -- > Mark > > > s-chancheaw@attbi.com scribit: > > Dear Mark, > > My name is Suphoj Chancheaw. I am a graduate > student in > > Architectural Studies at Columbia College Chicago. > I am > > doing my final project for thesis, which concerns > the > > history of the specific building located on 300 > N.Canal > > street in Chicago (now Braun Bottle Company). I > have been > > trying to find the history information about this > site, > > but I could not get close to it. I have heard that > this > > building used to be freight house for P.C.C. and > St. L. > > railroad company. However, I could not find the > specific > > evident about this building. > > > > If you have some information regarding to this > building, > > or any recommendation for sources of information, > please > > contact me via this e-mail. I desperately need > help. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:10:53 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vondruska Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes I believe that any "hamerhead" Baldwin RS-1,2,3 or4-5, that had a raised shot hood to allow for a steam generator would have been delivered in DGLE as would have been any "pt boat" GP-7, its eyecathing roof-mounted compressed air tanks, the "torpedo tubes" were placed there to make room for the steam generator's water storage tank the was slung in the usual mounting location for the air tanks. I believe all of these marks were delivered before the 1954 tuscan and gold scheme was adopted for passenger motive power. Tom V. --- Jerry Britton wrote: > On 2/7/02 11:41 AM, Vagel C. Keller, Jr. > (vck@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: > > > Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in > DGLE? What about electrics? > > > Absolutely! > > A key resource is Hirsimaki's "Black Gold Black > Diamonds" series. But I > don't have mine at hand, so I can't give you a > definitive list. > > Definitely EMD E7's and I am pretty sure E8's; > Baldwin Sharks and > Centipedes; and Alco PA/PB's. > > Good to hear from you...it's been awhile! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N > Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" > mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:12:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes Vagel, Was that a typo in your original subject line? Diseasel? or was that a jab for us Steam Guys? ,,,,Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:06:59 -0800 Subject: [PRR] R50b lettering diagram From: "Douglas Nelson" Can anyone point me to a lettering diagram for the R50b? I have Bob Johnson's description of the lettering, but I am looking for a diagram that shows placement on the car. Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:52:51 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Diseasel was Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes >Vagel, > > Was that a typo in your original subject line? Diseasel? or was >that a jab for us Steam Guys? ,,,,Gary Gary, Miles away from any PRR content, I'll say that my use of "Diseasel" comes from Thomas the Tank Engine and in particular, a story with Bill and Ben, two tank engine twins, who call diesels "diseasels" in a very funny dialog ("sneezles cause diseasels" etc). I don't know about Vagel's use Thats definitely one for the steam gang! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:56:59 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] "Diseasel" I believe the first person who used the term "Diseasel" here a couple days ago hinted at its origin in an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends. As I recall, The Fat Director (Sir Topham Hatt in the PC USofA) obtained a diesel from "the other railway". Inhabitants of the engine house expressed their dismay and alarm by, among other things, claiming that "Diseasels spread diseases". I now remark on the strong parallel in general tone between Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends and Rudyard Kipling's short story ".007", which it would seem was the source of the name "Purple Emperor" which was eventually applied to a freight train on the Buffalo Division of the PRR (whew). See the archive at Jerry's site about that. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: [PRR] Locomotive Colors and Such! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:34:08 -0600 Hi! Don't you all really enjoy hearing about colors. Locos, cars, buildings, etc. If I might put in my 2 cents worth! The confusion comes about because everyone thinks steam locos were black. That's "BLACK", didn't you know? That's why the question keeps repeating itself! I learned my lesson the hard way when I said last year that switchers (read "shifters") were all DGLE; only to be corrected about the Tuscan one (or was it two?). Now - steamers were shifters, were diesels shifters or switchers? Now that we've all heard about this again, let's just wait till a few months go by, and start all over again! Ha! Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 14:52:14 -0500 Subject: [PRR] FW: [PRR-ER] New Layout Plans Online, Please Review From: Jerry Britton For anyone who may be interested, I am sharing a post I recently made to the "PRR-ER" list, which is dedicated to my model railroad efforts. If anyone would care to, please take a look at my newly posted plans of the layout now under construction. I would appreciate your feedback. Before commenting, please take note of the notes included below; they may answer your questions. The URL for the plans is http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ If anyone wishes to join the "PRR-ER" list, please contact me off-list. ----------------------------------------------------------- ------ Forwarded Message > From: Jerry Britton > Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 14:47:21 -0500 > To: > Subject: [PRR-ER] New Layout Plans Online, Please Review > > I am slowly but surely gaining advanced proficiency in Adobe Illustrator. I > am using it for my track planning rather than 3rd PlanIt (or others) due to > the learning curve -- since I already know some of it -- and the fact that I > have it. > > Strengths are its capability to maintain objects on many layers which may be > hidden/shown, and the ability to place scans behind art. I am making use of > valuation maps in my planning and this is an ideal situation. > > I am also using CADtools plug-in, which allows you to set scales for each > layer, and also TrackTools plug-in, which provides model railroad components > already created. It makes track design go fairly quickly. > > Anyway, I have replaced all the former drawings from the site. The new plans > > * Are based on a very accurate drawing of the room; > > * The Harrisburg and Cresson valuation maps are included at exact scale; > > * Some trackwork, indicated in black, represents actual location of track. > In other areas a blue line is just an indication of where the right of way > will be. > > * The left helix is not yet scaled to the size needed, nor in exact place. I > duped the one from the right strictly for conception reasons. At its current > size, this left helix pinches the leftmost aisle down to 24", which will be > avoided. > > * The Harrisburg Gas Company, a wide expanse on Level II, will be a lift > out. An operator working the REA/freight area will be located here...the gas > company will be placed in for open houses. > > * The east staging operator will be located below HorseShoe Curve, where > holes in all levels line up. > > * There is room for a tower operator in each of the two helixes, which are > open about 4.5' across on the inside! > > Only the area to the right, on Level I, is actually under construction at > this time. I will be making a Home Depot run this Saturday which will > provide the benchwork to start the east end staging yard and the east end of > Harrisburg on Level II. > > Your comments are welcome. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > "PRR-ER" is a private mailing list for the discussion of the planning, > construction, and operation of Jerry Britton's "PRR Eastern Region" in > N scale. The layout's web site is at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/. > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Thank > you for your participation! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ End of Forwarded Message ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Locomotive Colors and Such! Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:53:51 +0000 The only red one I know of was the Baldwin switcher assigned to Sunnyside that later wound up working out of Pavnoia in Camden. Does anybody know why this switcher fell into disfavor in New York and was banished to southern New Jersey? > Hi! > > Don't you all really enjoy hearing about colors. Locos, cars, buildings, > etc. If I might put in my 2 cents worth! > > The confusion comes about because everyone thinks steam locos were black. > That's "BLACK", didn't you know? > > That's why the question keeps repeating itself! > > I learned my lesson the hard way when I said last year that switchers (read > "shifters") were all DGLE; only to be corrected about the Tuscan one (or was > it two?). Now - steamers were shifters, were diesels shifters or switchers? > > Now that we've all heard about this again, let's just wait till a few months > go by, and start all over again! > > Ha! > > Morgan Bilbo > Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:06:20 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2000 Alco S1 Geoffrey and all, Not having the new Proto 2000 ALCo S1 I am not sure of the details that need to be added, but be aware that ALCo did produce some switchers that had a shorter roof for operating in electried terrritories (As was the case for New Haven) but perhaps for the PRR als... Check your photos and your locomotive assignments. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Locomotive Colors and Such! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:53:26 -0500 I'm not at home to substantiate this, but I believe the Baldwin (VO-1000) from Sunnyside was re-assigned to CTE (Camden Terminal Enginehouse) because of the high concentration of Baldwin units in the Phila.Terminal Area, and thus a better base for maintenance. The New York Region was primarily an Alco stronghold and so the Alco switchers tended to concentrate there. The Baldwin was probably just a fish out of water when maintenance dollars got tight, so they sent her south to be in her own "pool". Buzz -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:54 PM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com; PennsyNut Subject: Re: [PRR] Locomotive Colors and Such! The only red one I know of was the Baldwin switcher assigned to Sunnyside that later wound up working out of Pavnoia in Camden. Does anybody know why this switcher fell into disfavor in New York and was banished to southern New Jersey? > Hi! > > Don't you all really enjoy hearing about colors. Locos, cars, buildings, > etc. If I might put in my 2 cents worth! > > The confusion comes about because everyone thinks steam locos were black. > That's "BLACK", didn't you know? > > That's why the question keeps repeating itself! > > I learned my lesson the hard way when I said last year that switchers (read > "shifters") were all DGLE; only to be corrected about the Tuscan one (or was > it two?). Now - steamers were shifters, were diesels shifters or switchers? > > Now that we've all heard about this again, let's just wait till a few months > go by, and start all over again! > > Ha! > > Morgan Bilbo > Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: [PRR-ER] New Layout Plans Online, Please Review Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 23:04:37 -0000 Jerry, I am impressed with the scale of your project, it shows the possibilities of N scale. I just wish I had the space... best wishes Patrick Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:52 PM Subject: [PRR] FW: [PRR-ER] New Layout Plans Online, Please Review > For anyone who may be interested, I am sharing a post I recently made to the > "PRR-ER" list, which is dedicated to my model railroad efforts. > > If anyone would care to, please take a look at my newly posted plans of the > layout now under construction. I would appreciate your feedback. Before > commenting, please take note of the notes included below; they may answer > your questions. The URL for the plans is > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ > > If anyone wishes to join the "PRR-ER" list, please contact me off-list. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ------ Forwarded Message > > From: Jerry Britton > > Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 14:47:21 -0500 > > To: > > Subject: [PRR-ER] New Layout Plans Online, Please Review > > > > I am slowly but surely gaining advanced proficiency in Adobe Illustrator. I > > am using it for my track planning rather than 3rd PlanIt (or others) due to > > the learning curve -- since I already know some of it -- and the fact that I > > have it. > > > > Strengths are its capability to maintain objects on many layers which may be > > hidden/shown, and the ability to place scans behind art. I am making use of > > valuation maps in my planning and this is an ideal situation. > > > > I am also using CADtools plug-in, which allows you to set scales for each > > layer, and also TrackTools plug-in, which provides model railroad components > > already created. It makes track design go fairly quickly. > > > > Anyway, I have replaced all the former drawings from the site. The new plans > > > > * Are based on a very accurate drawing of the room; > > > > * The Harrisburg and Cresson valuation maps are included at exact scale; > > > > * Some trackwork, indicated in black, represents actual location of track. > > In other areas a blue line is just an indication of where the right of way > > will be. > > > > * The left helix is not yet scaled to the size needed, nor in exact place. I > > duped the one from the right strictly for conception reasons. At its current > > size, this left helix pinches the leftmost aisle down to 24", which will be > > avoided. > > > > * The Harrisburg Gas Company, a wide expanse on Level II, will be a lift > > out. An operator working the REA/freight area will be located here...the gas > > company will be placed in for open houses. > > > > * The east staging operator will be located below HorseShoe Curve, where > > holes in all levels line up. > > > > * There is room for a tower operator in each of the two helixes, which are > > open about 4.5' across on the inside! > > > > Only the area to the right, on Level I, is actually under construction at > > this time. I will be making a Home Depot run this Saturday which will > > provide the benchwork to start the east end staging yard and the east end of > > Harrisburg on Level II. > > > > Your comments are welcome. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > For brass collectors... > > http://www.brasstrains.net > > Free serving of railroad web sites... > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > "PRR-ER" is a private mailing list for the discussion of the planning, > > construction, and operation of Jerry Britton's "PRR Eastern Region" in > > N scale. The layout's web site is at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/. > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Thank > > you for your participation! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:10:44 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Signal Corps photos, about the site, about what I'm --- PennsyNut wrote: > Hi! > > To avoid repeating, is there an index for these? To split a hair a bit: There is no index. There is a table of contents, sort of, and there is a search facility. The "main door" to the library is at: http://www.lva.lib.va.us/dlp/index.htm A link from that page gets you to the Photographic Collections ToC at: http://www.lva.lib.va.us/dlp/photo/ A link from that page goes to the Signal Corps collection at: http://eagle.vsla.edu/signal.corps/ The search facility appears to do one or the other of two things: 1. You can put in an "image number" such as C1:2/xx/yyy (where xx and yyy are as in my posts) That gets you a little table of links which you can use to get to the caption of photo /VTLS/SC/xx/yyy.jpg It may be possible to then actually see the image, I've had poor luck with that. Something about the site is not intuitive to my intuition. Once you've gotten into those lists, I believe you can scroll page-to-page, hence "there is a ToC, sort of". 2. You can enter a word and find all captions which include that word. A thumbnail of the image comes up with each caption, and you can get to the image by clicking on the thumbnail. Two problems: First, if the caption writer didn't mention something, the search won't find it. For example, the caption may speak of a waterproofed jeep being tested in the bay, does not mention the RR car ferry in the background. For example, I had seen a group of photos of a diesel being loaded onto a ship. Searched on "locomotive", turned up only one of the several. Turns out one caption spoke of "diesel locomotive", the rest called it "diesel engine". Second, the search doesn't seem to like phrases, just words. Searches may turn up a flood of images, only one (or none) of which matches the sense in which I meant the word. That's why I'm listing so many "hits" which are trivial or even silly. If I dismiss something as unimportant I go too far. All I can really say is that it is unimportant to me. Someone else may have a different opinion. So, if I can make out any scrap of RR equipment, other than bare tracks, I mention it. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:48:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Cabin Car info/photo Help Hi Guys, First, sorry for the cross postings, but I need to get this out to as many as possible. The local chapter of the NRHS (Beaverr Valley Junction) owns ex-PRR N5c #477974. Restoration work will soon commence to get this cabin from Conrail colors back to PRR colors. In fact we are going to try to place all the pre-CR apliances back too if possible, ie Roof Walk, Full Ladders, Pedestal Steps, Cupola Grabs, Removal of the steel kick plate, etc. Some research has been done and we have found out that this Cabin was assigned to the Willamsport, Southport area (Elmira Branch) for at least part of its service history. Several photosgraphs showing the 477974 have been found in the Elmira Banch book on the PRR and in Pennsy Steam Years #1. These photos date from 1956. In those photos the cabin is still wearing the as delivered paint scheme of 1941. We are trying to locate additional photos of this cabin, PRR N5c #477974, in later years after 1956. We want to learn if this cabin recieved either of the later paint schemes, ie Shadow Keystone scheme of 1955 or the Plain Keystone scheme of 1961. We are wondering if the car was possibly bypassed these paint/lettering schemes? We do know the Cabin recieved the Focal Orange paint of 1965 because the remnants of orange is still evident on the porch grates, so is the PC Green too.... If anyone has Cabin photos or more slides/photos of the Elmira Branch in their collection, please take a few moments to see if you can spot the 477974 in any other finish other than the early lettering scheme. If photo proof can be made, then the Beaver Valley Chapter can decide on the scheme this N5c is to be restored to. We would like to restore it to something it actually wore.........Thanks on behalf of the BVJ NRHS........Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: [PRR-ER] New Layout Plans Online, Please Review Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 23:54:12 +0000 I wish I had the money! > Jerry, > > I am impressed with the scale of your project, it shows the possibilities of > N scale. > I just wish I had the space... > > best wishes > > Patrick Grace > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "PRR-Talk LIST" > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:52 PM > Subject: [PRR] FW: [PRR-ER] New Layout Plans Online, Please Review > > > > For anyone who may be interested, I am sharing a post I recently made to > the > > "PRR-ER" list, which is dedicated to my model railroad efforts. > > > > If anyone would care to, please take a look at my newly posted plans of > the > > layout now under construction. I would appreciate your feedback. Before > > commenting, please take note of the notes included below; they may answer > > your questions. The URL for the plans is > > > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ > > > > If anyone wishes to join the "PRR-ER" list, please contact me off-list. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ------ Forwarded Message > > > From: Jerry Britton > > > Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 14:47:21 -0500 > > > To: > > > Subject: [PRR-ER] New Layout Plans Online, Please Review > > > > > > I am slowly but surely gaining advanced proficiency in Adobe > Illustrator. I > > > am using it for my track planning rather than 3rd PlanIt (or others) due > to > > > the learning curve -- since I already know some of it -- and the fact > that I > > > have it. > > > > > > Strengths are its capability to maintain objects on many layers which > may be > > > hidden/shown, and the ability to place scans behind art. I am making use > of > > > valuation maps in my planning and this is an ideal situation. > > > > > > I am also using CADtools plug-in, which allows you to set scales for > each > > > layer, and also TrackTools plug-in, which provides model railroad > components > > > already created. It makes track design go fairly quickly. > > > > > > Anyway, I have replaced all the former drawings from the site. The new > plans > > > > > > * Are based on a very accurate drawing of the room; > > > > > > * The Harrisburg and Cresson valuation maps are included at exact scale; > > > > > > * Some trackwork, indicated in black, represents actual location of > track. > > > In other areas a blue line is just an indication of where the right of > way > > > will be. > > > > > > * The left helix is not yet scaled to the size needed, nor in exact > place. I > > > duped the one from the right strictly for conception reasons. At its > current > > > size, this left helix pinches the leftmost aisle down to 24", which will > be > > > avoided. > > > > > > * The Harrisburg Gas Company, a wide expanse on Level II, will be a lift > > > out. An operator working the REA/freight area will be located here...the > gas > > > company will be placed in for open houses. > > > > > > * The east staging operator will be located below HorseShoe Curve, where > > > holes in all levels line up. > > > > > > * There is room for a tower operator in each of the two helixes, which > are > > > open about 4.5' across on the inside! > > > > > > Only the area to the right, on Level I, is actually under construction > at > > > this time. I will be making a Home Depot run this Saturday which will > > > provide the benchwork to start the east end staging yard and the east > end of > > > Harrisburg on Level II. > > > > > > Your comments are welcome. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > For brass collectors... > > > http://www.brasstrains.net > > > Free serving of railroad web sites... > > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > "PRR-ER" is a private mailing list for the discussion of the planning, > > > construction, and operation of Jerry Britton's "PRR Eastern Region" in > > > N scale. The layout's web site is at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/. > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Thank > > > you for your participation! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "teabow" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/07/02 Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:46:40 -0500 Hello, You can see some nice photos of Pennsy Alco S1's in Pennsy Power III by Al Stauffer pg.300.Also see Pennsy Diesel Years vol.1 by Robert Yanosey pg.14. I've never seen a picture of a pennsy diesel with an all weather window so i'd wait to add that detail until you can find a photo that supports that decision,if you want to be prototypical. For photos you can see online try http://members.aol.com/ALCOHAULER/home/alcohaul.html andALCO Homepage http.//tardis.union.edu/community/project95/ALCOindex.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "PRR-Talk" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:54 PM Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/07/02 PRR-Talk Digest - Thursday, February 7, 2002 Proto 2000 Alco S1 by "Geoffrey Van Dooren" PCC&StL building (was: information for thesis) by "Mark Bej" Re: [PRR] cranes by "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Re: [PRR] cranes by Re: [PRR] cranes by "William J. Ayers" Early Diseasel Paint Schemes by "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes by "Jerry Britton" Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes by "Andrew S. Miller" Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes by "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes by "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." RE: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes by "Burnley, Charles" Signal Corps photos, Part 4, wherein one finds a distinctively PRR gondol by "robert netzlof" Re: [PRR] PCC&StL building (was: information for thesis) by "Tom Vondruska" Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes by "Tom Vondruska" Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes by "Gary Mittner" R50b lettering diagram by "Douglas Nelson" Diseasel was Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes by "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." "Diseasel" by "robert netzlof" Locomotive Colors and Such! by "PennsyNut" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Proto 2000 Alco S1 From: "Geoffrey Van Dooren" Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 02:56:02 -0800 (PST) Hi, I received my Proto 2000 Alco S1 this morning. There are some items that need to be placed but I don't have any pictures from an S1. Can someone tell me which of the items listed below have to be glued on the model? Sunshades all-weather windows armrests radiotor louver lever 3 grills Thanks, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: PCC&StL building (was: information for thesis) From: "Mark Bej" Date: Thu, 7 Feb 102 09:34:11 -0500 (EST) Suphoj, I don't have specific information on that building. I would suggest trying the following sources, not necessarily in this order: 1. See if Chicago Union Station has any records. 2. Hagley Museum (Delaware), which has many PRR records. Info on my site. 3. Chicago municipal and/or Illinois state records. 4. Pa. state archives. 5. PRR Technical & Historical Society (info on my site). I am also blind cc:ing your message to a number of acquaintances familiar with Chicago, as well as to prr-talk, an PRR interest group on the 'net. -- Mark s-chancheaw@attbi.com scribit: > Dear Mark, > My name is Suphoj Chancheaw. I am a graduate student in > Architectural Studies at Columbia College Chicago. I am > doing my final project for thesis, which concerns the > history of the specific building located on 300 N.Canal > street in Chicago (now Braun Bottle Company). I have been > trying to find the history information about this site, > but I could not get close to it. I have heard that this > building used to be freight house for P.C.C. and St. L. > railroad company. However, I could not find the specific > evident about this building. > > If you have some information regarding to this building, > or any recommendation for sources of information, please > contact me via this e-mail. I desperately need help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] cranes From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:38:19 -0600 Norm asked: >A number of questions about cranes: As noted, anything above about 10 or 20 tons capacity was called a "derrick" not a crane. Here is a link to prr derrick #497013 http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/prr/prr497013alb.jpg which I hope will help illustrate some of the previous answers. BTW, this is a GREAT photo for MOW SPFs . >1. How did a steam operated crane convert steam to power >the boom and hoists? The cylinders were located near the front of the derrick, on either side of the base of the boom. These can barely be seen in this photo. Exhaust went vertically up to the roof (the convoluted pipe fron the cylinder that then angles back slightly). As noted, this was connected through a transmission to turn the winding drums. >2. Did a self propelled steam crane use self propolsion >for moving at the wreck site only? >3. Where was the coal and water stored? The coal bin was in the back of the derrick and access was through a roof hatch. You can see it open in the photo. Note the converted 90F82 tender in the train to provide fuel and water. >4. What was a typical boiler pressure range? >5. What was the steaming capacity of a steam boiler? Note that boiler was a vertical boiler. >6. How fast would a self propelled crane be able to move? >7. How did the propulsion mechanism work? Not too fast...as noted, most self propelled moves were boom first, most towed moves preffered boom trailing. Speed limits differed for boom first (20 mph) and boom trailing (30 mph) as best I can remember (this is in the employee timetables). In HO scale the Tichy model is one of the FINEST plastic kits ever engineered. it gives you great insight into the mechanism and does a credible job of representing a PRR 120 ton derrick. With some mods it might also stand in for a 150 ton derrick. While replaced by heavier derricks in the 30's and 40's on many wreck trains, the 120 ton derricks continued in service on some through the 50s and in some cases I bleieve into the 60s. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] cranes From: Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:54:32 EST In a message dated 2/7/02 8:44:37 AM Central Standard Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << BTW, this is a GREAT photo for MOW SPFs . and In HO scale the Tichy model is one of the FINEST plastic kits ever engineered. >> Sorry for wasting bandwidth with an Amen message, but Amen to both. Thanks for the URL. Bob Zoeller Bayside, Wisconsin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] cranes From: "William J. Ayers" Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:01:04 -0600 > From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:38:19 -0600 > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] cranes >> 6. How fast would a self propelled crane be able to move? >> 7. How did the propulsion mechanism work? > > Not too fast...as noted, most self propelled moves were boom first, most > towed moves preffered boom trailing. Speed limits differed for boom first > (20 mph) and boom trailing (30 mph) as best I can remember (this is in the > employee timetables). > This is true for all wreck trains, and regardless whether the boom was first or trailing, they were restricted to 20 mph on curves, according to my ETTs. -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Early Diseasel Paint Schemes From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:41:37 -0500 Fellow listers: Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? What about electrics? Thanks, Vagel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:51:00 -0500 On 2/7/02 11:41 AM, Vagel C. Keller, Jr. (vck@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: > Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? What about electrics? > Absolutely! A key resource is Hirsimaki's "Black Gold Black Diamonds" series. But I don't have mine at hand, so I can't give you a definitive list. Definitely EMD E7's and I am pretty sure E8's; Baldwin Sharks and Centipedes; and Alco PA/PB's. Good to hear from you...it's been awhile! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes From: "Andrew S. Miller" Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:54:16 -0500 They were almost all delivered in DGLE until about 1953. E7s, E8s, BP20s, and PAs in the 5 stripe scheme, and FM Erie-builts were delivered in the single stripe scheme for passenger service. Yes Erie-builts were delivered in the single stripe scheme for passenger service, and FPs were delivered in Tuscan Red 5 stripe for freight service! The PRR had an exception to every rule. "Standard RR - my ***"! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." wrote: > Fellow listers: > > Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? What about electrics? > > Thanks, > > Vagel > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:56:05 -0600 Vagel asks: >Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? Yes, although I leave the specifics to the diseasal experts. Classes I know of fer sure are BP20 sharks (nee BP3), BP60 centipedes, PAs, E7, E8. >What about electrics? Sigh...haven't been listening eh? I this earlier this week ALL electrics were delivered in DGLE and with the exception of a few GG1s in the 50s (Tuscan ar Silver) remained DGLE their entire lives... I just want to know why does this question keep coming up???? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:26:47 -0500 --On Thursday, February 7, 2002 10:56 -0600 "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > Vagel asks: > >> Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? > > Sigh...haven't been listening eh? ... > I just want to know why does this question keep coming up???? Heh, heh. Mea Culpa! Good Grief, Charlie Brown! The instant internet gratification bug has finally hit me! Perhaps Jerry should create a "short attention span theater" list for archivally-challenged lazy bones like me! Vagel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes From: "Burnley, Charles" Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:40:43 -0500 Listers, ALL, repeat ALL PRR Electrics were delivered in Dark Green Locomotive Enamel -PRR Shade. Some were repainted different colors later in their careers, but ALL were delivered DGLE. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 11:56 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes Vagel asks: >Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in DGLE? Yes, although I leave the specifics to the diseasal experts. Classes I know of fer sure are BP20 sharks (nee BP3), BP60 centipedes, PAs, E7, E8. >What about electrics? Sigh...haven't been listening eh? I this earlier this week ALL electrics were delivered in DGLE and with the exception of a few GG1s in the 50s (Tuscan ar Silver) remained DGLE their entire lives... I just want to know why does this question keep coming up???? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Signal Corps photos, Part 4, wherein one finds a distinctively PRR gondola From: "robert netzlof" Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:56:23 -0800 (PST) To avoid repeating a bunch of characters which are constant, note that the images are all at http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/xx/yyy.jpg where xx and yyy are numbers. I will recite only the numbers and some comment as to what the image is. xx=18 yyy= 022 Hospital train loading indoors. Pier 4? 023,024 Inside hospital car 049 String of flat cars, loaded with trucks 050 Trucks on flatcars, troops playing soldiers 052 Officers in a box car 081 Streetcar waiting for a parade to go by. xx=19 yyy= 006 C&O pass. car in background, indoors 036 Jeeps stacked on flatcars. 037 Jeeps stacked on flatcar, different arrangement 042 Tanks on flatcars on pier 043 Tank on MILW flatcar on pier 045 Bombs in doorway of boxcar 046 Forklift, bombs in N&W round-roof boxcar 047 Shells (155 mm?) on pallet, B&O car in background 048 Forklift beside C&NW single-sheathed boxcar 049 Shells (105mm?) in boxcar doorway 058 Forklift handling shells beside boxcars 066-072 Views of a European electric passenger train. Caption says it is Italian, and was shipped to the NY for display at the 1939 World's Fair. Here it is being shipped back to Italy. Note that in 067 there is a PRR GRA (or is it GR?) gondola car, perhaps being used as a coupler adapter. 070 also shows a couple US steel boxcars. xx=20 yyy= 003 Aerial view of terminal looking inland 006 Aerial view of terminal looking along shore xx=21 yyy= 014 Band playing in truck beside passenger car 015 War correspondent sitting in a passenger car 016 Inside a coach 043 Inside a hospital car 044 Ditto 045 Ditto 046 Ditto 053 Steam locomotive in doorway of building 056 Hospital car indoors xx=22 yyy= 074 Coal pier in background ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] PCC&StL building (was: information for thesis) From: "Tom Vondruska" Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:00:56 -0800 (PST) to Mark & Suphoj, The PRR Co. liked the myth that it was a compassionate capitalist who used reason and logic to win others over to their side. They were particularly proud of the myth that they did not engage in hostile takeovers, always taking time to point out that most of its subsidiaries were leased and operated under their original names. This makes looking for information about older rail structures outside of Pennsylvania difficult unless you have an understanding of the company's corporate genealogy. The best surviving version of my Panhandle genealogy is now part of the Hoboes' Guide to the Pennsylvania Railroad that's part of Jerry Britton's Keystone Crossings Pennsylvania Railroad meta site. Mine vanished in the great 800 meg hard chive crash of '99. I'll now attempt memory. I am away from home and not using any reference material so any one reading this please verify any following information before passing it on. The Panhandle wasn't the Panhandle when the line that carried this line that predominately carried freight into the Windy City for the PCC&StL/PRR reached Chicago. PRR Co. gained the connection with the lease of the Columbus, Chicago & Indiana Central RR Co. in 1869 for 999 years, punishment for discussing trackage agreements via Urbana, Ohio, with Jay Gould's Erie Railway. The CC&IC had been the C&IC (Columbus & Indiana Central) until 1864 or 1865 when during a bankruptcy reorganization it merged with the Chicago Air Line and Chicago Great Eastern, giving it a connection between Logansport and Chicago. Chicago was added to its formal corporate name. That's about all I know right now. Tom V. --- Mark Bej wrote: > > Suphoj, > > I don't have specific information on that building. > I would > suggest trying the following sources, not > necessarily in this > order: > 1. See if Chicago Union Station has any records. > 2. Hagley Museum (Delaware), which has many PRR > records. > Info on my site. > 3. Chicago municipal and/or Illinois state records. > 4. Pa. state archives. > 5. PRR Technical & Historical Society (info on my > site). > I am also blind cc:ing your message to a number of > acquaintances > familiar with Chicago, as well as to prr-talk, an > PRR interest > group on the 'net. > > -- > Mark > > > s-chancheaw@attbi.com scribit: > > Dear Mark, > > My name is Suphoj Chancheaw. I am a graduate > student in > > Architectural Studies at Columbia College Chicago. > I am > > doing my final project for thesis, which concerns > the > > history of the specific building located on 300 > N.Canal > > street in Chicago (now Braun Bottle Company). I > have been > > trying to find the history information about this > site, > > but I could not get close to it. I have heard that > this > > building used to be freight house for P.C.C. and > St. L. > > railroad company. However, I could not find the > specific > > evident about this building. > > > > If you have some information regarding to this > building, > > or any recommendation for sources of information, > please > > contact me via this e-mail. I desperately need > help. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes From: "Tom Vondruska" Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:10:53 -0800 (PST) I believe that any "hamerhead" Baldwin RS-1,2,3 or4-5, that had a raised shot hood to allow for a steam generator would have been delivered in DGLE as would have been any "pt boat" GP-7, its eyecathing roof-mounted compressed air tanks, the "torpedo tubes" were placed there to make room for the steam generator's water storage tank the was slung in the usual mounting location for the air tanks. I believe all of these marks were delivered before the 1954 tuscan and gold scheme was adopted for passenger motive power. Tom V. --- Jerry Britton wrote: > On 2/7/02 11:41 AM, Vagel C. Keller, Jr. > (vck@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: > > > Were any Pennsy passenger diesels delivered in > DGLE? What about electrics? > > > Absolutely! > > A key resource is Hirsimaki's "Black Gold Black > Diamonds" series. But I > don't have mine at hand, so I can't give you a > definitive list. > > Definitely EMD E7's and I am pretty sure E8's; > Baldwin Sharks and > Centipedes; and Alco PA/PB's. > > Good to hear from you...it's been awhile! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N > Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" > mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:12:26 -0500 (EST) Vagel, Was that a typo in your original subject line? Diseasel? or was that a jab for us Steam Guys? ,,,,Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: R50b lettering diagram From: "Douglas Nelson" Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:06:59 -0800 Can anyone point me to a lettering diagram for the R50b? I have Bob Johnson's description of the lettering, but I am looking for a diagram that shows placement on the car. Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Diseasel was Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:52:51 -0600 >Vagel, > > Was that a typo in your original subject line? Diseasel? or was >that a jab for us Steam Guys? ,,,,Gary Gary, Miles away from any PRR content, I'll say that my use of "Diseasel" comes from Thomas the Tank Engine and in particular, a story with Bill and Ben, two tank engine twins, who call diesels "diseasels" in a very funny dialog ("sneezles cause diseasels" etc). I don't know about Vagel's use Thats definitely one for the steam gang! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: "Diseasel" From: "robert netzlof" Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:56:59 -0800 (PST) I believe the first person who used the term "Diseasel" here a couple days ago hinted at its origin in an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends. As I recall, The Fat Director (Sir Topham Hatt in the PC USofA) obtained a diesel from "the other railway". Inhabitants of the engine house expressed their dismay and alarm by, among other things, claiming that "Diseasels spread diseases". I now remark on the strong parallel in general tone between Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends and Rudyard Kipling's short story ".007", which it would seem was the source of the name "Purple Emperor" which was eventually applied to a freight train on the Buffalo Division of the PRR (whew). See the archive at Jerry's site about that. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Locomotive Colors and Such! From: "PennsyNut" Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:34:08 -0600 Hi! Don't you all really enjoy hearing about colors. Locos, cars, buildings, etc. If I might put in my 2 cents worth! The confusion comes about because everyone thinks steam locos were black. That's "BLACK", didn't you know? That's why the question keeps repeating itself! I learned my lesson the hard way when I said last year that switchers (read "shifters") were all DGLE; only to be corrected about the Tuscan one (or was it two?). Now - steamers were shifters, were diesels shifters or switchers? Now that we've all heard about this again, let's just wait till a few months go by, and start all over again! Ha! Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "teabow" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/06/02 Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:56:22 -0500 Wouldn't be easier to model an H10 with a Bowser H9 kit than a Bachman consolidation ? I'm Sure you have your reasons,I'm really curious to hear what they are .Does the bachman run smoother,quieter,better or what. Ray Thibaut teabow@dbscorp.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "PRR-Talk" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 1:10 AM Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/06/02 PRR-Talk Digest - Wednesday, February 6, 2002 RE: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations by "Burnley, Charles" Photos Posted by "Jerry Britton" Northern Central Chapter Meeting This Sunday by "Jerry Britton" H10 dome dimensions by "Jerry Shickler" Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos by "Gregg Mahlkov" airbrushing G scale by "Earl M." Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale by "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale by "Gary Mittner" RE:steel mill photos was [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos by "Chany, Christopher" Re: [PRR] Northern Central Chapter Meeting by "Jerry Britton" Re: Harbor Freight by Re: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight by "Zak" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations From: "Burnley, Charles" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:42:27 -0500 Doug, Servicing the turbo-generator was the main reason for the change. With the turbo up on top of the smokebox access was difficult, time consuming and somewhat dangerous. During WWII when the change in location was initiated, maintenance time was critical to the war effort. In order to make this item easier and safer to maintain the headlight was raised to the top of the smokebox and the generator brought down in front and a "chin platform" for the service man to stand on was added to the lower smokebox front. This put the turbo and most of it's plumbing a convenient level to be maintained rather easily and quickly. This practice continuued after the war, although not all locomotives received this treatment. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Nelson [mailto:dougnelson@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:55 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations What was the purpose of reversing the location of generators and headlights on PRR steam locomotives? When was this change made? Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Photos Posted From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:53:00 -0500 Though taken on a cold rainy day this past December, I have posted some digital pics. These may be viewed by searching the database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ Included: * what's left of the "emergency water stop" at Cove, Pa. * Sherman's Creek bridge and VIEW interlocking * Duncannon passenger station ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Northern Central Chapter Meeting This Sunday From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:09:13 -0500 This Sunday, February 10, the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS will meet at 1:30 p.m. The PRR public is invited to attend, even if not a member of the Society or the Chapter. This will be the first meeting in a new meeting location...the Otterbein United Methodist Church. This move is to alleviate the rising costs of meeting at the Yorktown Hotel. The church is off of Philadelphia Street, about three blocks west of George Street. The February meeting is the annual "LCL Meeting", where attendees are encouraged to bring unusual PRR railroadiana or models to share with all. As an example, one year it was quite a site to see a half dozen grown men crawling all over a 1" = 100' valuation map of the entire Enola Yard, stretched across 15' of floor! This year I will be taking two "Board of Directors Inspection Trip" books from the 1950's which include all sorts of unique photos and track charts not found elsewhere. I'll also have a book on the sale of the Harrisburg Steel Plant from the 1950's, which includes a map of the railroad trackage through the plant, plus the sizes of most of the buildings making up the plant. Different! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: H10 dome dimensions From: "Jerry Shickler" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:10:15 -0500 Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of the steam & sand domes on an H10 (length/width/height at widest points)? I'm trying to convert a Bachmann consolidation, and am going to make them out of ABS rod. Thanks! --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:41:35 -0500 Roger:- Yes, I certainly DO mean the Pennsylvania Railroad. The PRR maintained a Sales Office in New Orleans from 1918 to its merger in 1968, and the PC maintained one there during its existence. The first time I was there I was the Office Manager (read Chief Clerk) 1962-1964, the second time I was a Sales Representative 1967-1973 (the last 5 under PC). In between I was a Rate Clerk in Cleveland and a Sales Representative in Baltimore. Prior to working for the railroad I went to Tulane University in New Orleans, which I suppose is why the PRR sent me there. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > In a message dated 2/4/02 3:43:32 PM Central Standard Time, mahlkov@gtcom.net > writes: > > << I lived in New Orleans three times and worked for the PRR there twice >> > > You worked for the PRR???? in New Orleans????? You mean Pennsylvania > Railroad?????? > > Roger > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: airbrushing G scale From: "Earl M." Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:04:28 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an airbrush......I am = doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so the areas to be = painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what kind of airbrush = set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" x 5" x 6" = and there are many of them to do..... I will also track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite = "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that tip! Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 I have noted all the postings ref = a newbie=20 with an airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, = gauge 1) so=20 the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what = kind of=20 airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" = x 5" x=20 6" and there are many of them to do.....
  I will also track down that RMC = July/Aug 82=20 issue thru my favorite "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that=20 tip!
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th = scale
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:18:02 -0600 Lew asks: > Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an >airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so >the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what >kind of airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car >is 16" x 5" x 6" and there are many of them to do..... I will also >track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite "old paper" >dealer. Sounds about right for the old "auto" spray can ...you know, the kind Walthers paints their HO and N scale stuff with as well ;^) Actually, I'm serious about the size of the spray can. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:46:41 -0500 (EST) Hey Earl. As you know I am in G Scale as well as most all the other scales. I use my (going on 20+ years) reliable Paasche H series with a #3 tip on all the above scales. A #5 tip maybe better suited for the large stuff but my #3 tip gets the job done just a well. Just adjust the tip open a bit more for larger coverage. I have done F3's, RS's, Geep and my Cabin Cars with no problem .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE:steel mill photos was [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: "Chany, Christopher" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:55:34 -0500 Listers, Forget the ships and boats go to http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm then click on home page and click on the steel mill photos! Get out the Walthers Blast Furnace!!!!! Chris Chany ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Northern Central Chapter Meeting From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:35:42 -0500 Since I overlooked it, and two people have asked, the Northern Central Chapter meeting is in York, Pa. Sorry! > This Sunday, February 10, the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS will > meet at 1:30 p.m. The PRR public is invited to attend, even if not a member > of the Society or the Chapter. > > This will be the first meeting in a new meeting location...the Otterbein > United Methodist Church. This move is to alleviate the rising costs of > meeting at the Yorktown Hotel. The church is off of Philadelphia Street, > about three blocks west of George Street. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Harbor Freight From: Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:54:06 EST In a message "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: > Hi Greg, > > A few weeks back you mentioned Harbor Freight as a source of cheap airbrushes. I searched the web site and only came up with the $60 Pasche. Do you have a model number or some other info on the brush you were talking about? My Badger 150 is a bout to drive me crazy...it keeps clogging badly, which I haven't experineced before, even with Poly Scale...I think it is getting worn out! Happy Rails Bruce< Bruce, Earl and all, Harbor Freight makes a very inexpensive airbrush set that includes a single action external mix airbrush, air can adapter, siphon bottle, and air hose for under 10 dollars. The set is often on sale for around ten dollars (like $4.99). Don't let the price scare you away as the brush works as well as any brush for 5 to 10 times the price. I keep a couple on hand at all times and I hate them because I have to replace them every 5 years or so. The external mix brush is not the best brush for using with acyllics but does work. They also make a brush Model #3200 which is a dual action internal mix brush nearly identical to the Badger #350 and an excellant internal mix airbrush especially at less than 40 dollars. Both brushes include a list of parts to use for replacement parts purposes. I also own a Badger #150 and a Wren External mix brush and I find myself using the "cheap Little" Harbor Frieght single action (like the Badger) brush more often than any other for all types of paint. Remember the clogging is often due to humidity and air temperature and not always the fault of the bruh ....unless the airflow (the little hole in the end) is restricted or has become enlarged changing the airpressure. Bruce check that before you buy another brush. But, as a good "back-up" pickup one of the "cheap little" Harbor Freight brushes, if you have a diffeculty finding one let me know I usually have a spare just in case the one I am using goes gunny in the next 5 years or so, I can send you one.... 3^) Greg Martin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight From: "Zak" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:36:21 -0500 Hi, all. I looked at the Harbor Freight site, and that brush is # 6131-1VGA. Zak ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:54 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight > In a message "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: > > > Hi Greg, > > > > A few weeks back you mentioned Harbor Freight as a source of cheap airbrushes. I searched the web site and only came up with the $60 Pasche. Do you have a model number or some other info on the brush you were talking about? My Badger 150 is a bout to drive me crazy...it keeps clogging badly, which I haven't experineced before, even with Poly Scale...I think it is getting worn out! > > Happy Rails > Bruce< > > Bruce, Earl and all, > > Harbor Freight makes a very inexpensive airbrush set that includes a single action external mix airbrush, air can adapter, siphon bottle, and air hose for under 10 dollars. The set is often on sale for around ten dollars (like $4.99). Don't let the price scare you away as the brush works as well as any brush for 5 to 10 times the price. I keep a couple on hand at all times and I hate them because I have to replace them every 5 years or so. The external mix brush is not the best brush for using with acyllics but does work. They also make a brush Model #3200 which is a dual action internal mix brush nearly identical to the Badger #350 and an excellant internal mix airbrush especially at less than 40 dollars. Both brushes include a list of parts to use for replacement parts purposes. I also own a Badger #150 and a Wren External mix brush and I find myself using the "cheap Little" Harbor Frieght single action (like the Badger) brush more often than any other for all types of paint. > > Remember the clogging is often due to humidity and air temperature and not always the fault of the bruh ....unless the airflow (the little hole in the end) is restricted or has become enlarged changing the airpressure. Bruce check that before you buy another brush. But, as a good "back-up" pickup one of the "cheap little" Harbor Freight brushes, if you have a diffeculty finding one let me know I usually have a spare just in case the one I am using goes gunny in the next 5 years or so, I can send you one.... 3^) > > Greg Martin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "teabow" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/06/02 Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:59:26 -0500 Wouldn't be easier to model an H10 with a Bowser H9 kit than a Bachman consolidation ? I'm Sure you have your reasons,I'm really curious to hear what they are .Does the bachman run smoother,quieter,better or what. Ray Thibaut teabow@dbscorp.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "PRR-Talk" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 1:10 AM Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/06/02 PRR-Talk Digest - Wednesday, February 6, 2002 RE: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations by "Burnley, Charles" Photos Posted by "Jerry Britton" Northern Central Chapter Meeting This Sunday by "Jerry Britton" H10 dome dimensions by "Jerry Shickler" Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos by "Gregg Mahlkov" airbrushing G scale by "Earl M." Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale by "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale by "Gary Mittner" RE:steel mill photos was [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos by "Chany, Christopher" Re: [PRR] Northern Central Chapter Meeting by "Jerry Britton" Re: Harbor Freight by Re: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight by "Zak" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations From: "Burnley, Charles" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:42:27 -0500 Doug, Servicing the turbo-generator was the main reason for the change. With the turbo up on top of the smokebox access was difficult, time consuming and somewhat dangerous. During WWII when the change in location was initiated, maintenance time was critical to the war effort. In order to make this item easier and safer to maintain the headlight was raised to the top of the smokebox and the generator brought down in front and a "chin platform" for the service man to stand on was added to the lower smokebox front. This put the turbo and most of it's plumbing a convenient level to be maintained rather easily and quickly. This practice continuued after the war, although not all locomotives received this treatment. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Nelson [mailto:dougnelson@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:55 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations What was the purpose of reversing the location of generators and headlights on PRR steam locomotives? When was this change made? Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Photos Posted From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:53:00 -0500 Though taken on a cold rainy day this past December, I have posted some digital pics. These may be viewed by searching the database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ Included: * what's left of the "emergency water stop" at Cove, Pa. * Sherman's Creek bridge and VIEW interlocking * Duncannon passenger station ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Northern Central Chapter Meeting This Sunday From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:09:13 -0500 This Sunday, February 10, the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS will meet at 1:30 p.m. The PRR public is invited to attend, even if not a member of the Society or the Chapter. This will be the first meeting in a new meeting location...the Otterbein United Methodist Church. This move is to alleviate the rising costs of meeting at the Yorktown Hotel. The church is off of Philadelphia Street, about three blocks west of George Street. The February meeting is the annual "LCL Meeting", where attendees are encouraged to bring unusual PRR railroadiana or models to share with all. As an example, one year it was quite a site to see a half dozen grown men crawling all over a 1" = 100' valuation map of the entire Enola Yard, stretched across 15' of floor! This year I will be taking two "Board of Directors Inspection Trip" books from the 1950's which include all sorts of unique photos and track charts not found elsewhere. I'll also have a book on the sale of the Harrisburg Steel Plant from the 1950's, which includes a map of the railroad trackage through the plant, plus the sizes of most of the buildings making up the plant. Different! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: H10 dome dimensions From: "Jerry Shickler" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:10:15 -0500 Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of the steam & sand domes on an H10 (length/width/height at widest points)? I'm trying to convert a Bachmann consolidation, and am going to make them out of ABS rod. Thanks! --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:41:35 -0500 Roger:- Yes, I certainly DO mean the Pennsylvania Railroad. The PRR maintained a Sales Office in New Orleans from 1918 to its merger in 1968, and the PC maintained one there during its existence. The first time I was there I was the Office Manager (read Chief Clerk) 1962-1964, the second time I was a Sales Representative 1967-1973 (the last 5 under PC). In between I was a Rate Clerk in Cleveland and a Sales Representative in Baltimore. Prior to working for the railroad I went to Tulane University in New Orleans, which I suppose is why the PRR sent me there. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > In a message dated 2/4/02 3:43:32 PM Central Standard Time, mahlkov@gtcom.net > writes: > > << I lived in New Orleans three times and worked for the PRR there twice >> > > You worked for the PRR???? in New Orleans????? You mean Pennsylvania > Railroad?????? > > Roger > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: airbrushing G scale From: "Earl M." Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:04:28 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an airbrush......I am = doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so the areas to be = painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what kind of airbrush = set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" x 5" x 6" = and there are many of them to do..... I will also track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite = "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that tip! Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 I have noted all the postings ref = a newbie=20 with an airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, = gauge 1) so=20 the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what = kind of=20 airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" = x 5" x=20 6" and there are many of them to do.....
  I will also track down that RMC = July/Aug 82=20 issue thru my favorite "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that=20 tip!
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th = scale
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:18:02 -0600 Lew asks: > Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an >airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so >the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what >kind of airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car >is 16" x 5" x 6" and there are many of them to do..... I will also >track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite "old paper" >dealer. Sounds about right for the old "auto" spray can ...you know, the kind Walthers paints their HO and N scale stuff with as well ;^) Actually, I'm serious about the size of the spray can. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:46:41 -0500 (EST) Hey Earl. As you know I am in G Scale as well as most all the other scales. I use my (going on 20+ years) reliable Paasche H series with a #3 tip on all the above scales. A #5 tip maybe better suited for the large stuff but my #3 tip gets the job done just a well. Just adjust the tip open a bit more for larger coverage. I have done F3's, RS's, Geep and my Cabin Cars with no problem .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE:steel mill photos was [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: "Chany, Christopher" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:55:34 -0500 Listers, Forget the ships and boats go to http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm then click on home page and click on the steel mill photos! Get out the Walthers Blast Furnace!!!!! Chris Chany ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Northern Central Chapter Meeting From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:35:42 -0500 Since I overlooked it, and two people have asked, the Northern Central Chapter meeting is in York, Pa. Sorry! > This Sunday, February 10, the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS will > meet at 1:30 p.m. The PRR public is invited to attend, even if not a member > of the Society or the Chapter. > > This will be the first meeting in a new meeting location...the Otterbein > United Methodist Church. This move is to alleviate the rising costs of > meeting at the Yorktown Hotel. The church is off of Philadelphia Street, > about three blocks west of George Street. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Harbor Freight From: Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:54:06 EST In a message "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: > Hi Greg, > > A few weeks back you mentioned Harbor Freight as a source of cheap airbrushes. I searched the web site and only came up with the $60 Pasche. Do you have a model number or some other info on the brush you were talking about? My Badger 150 is a bout to drive me crazy...it keeps clogging badly, which I haven't experineced before, even with Poly Scale...I think it is getting worn out! Happy Rails Bruce< Bruce, Earl and all, Harbor Freight makes a very inexpensive airbrush set that includes a single action external mix airbrush, air can adapter, siphon bottle, and air hose for under 10 dollars. The set is often on sale for around ten dollars (like $4.99). Don't let the price scare you away as the brush works as well as any brush for 5 to 10 times the price. I keep a couple on hand at all times and I hate them because I have to replace them every 5 years or so. The external mix brush is not the best brush for using with acyllics but does work. They also make a brush Model #3200 which is a dual action internal mix brush nearly identical to the Badger #350 and an excellant internal mix airbrush especially at less than 40 dollars. Both brushes include a list of parts to use for replacement parts purposes. I also own a Badger #150 and a Wren External mix brush and I find myself using the "cheap Little" Harbor Frieght single action (like the Badger) brush more often than any other for all types of paint. Remember the clogging is often due to humidity and air temperature and not always the fault of the bruh ....unless the airflow (the little hole in the end) is restricted or has become enlarged changing the airpressure. Bruce check that before you buy another brush. But, as a good "back-up" pickup one of the "cheap little" Harbor Freight brushes, if you have a diffeculty finding one let me know I usually have a spare just in case the one I am using goes gunny in the next 5 years or so, I can send you one.... 3^) Greg Martin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight From: "Zak" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:36:21 -0500 Hi, all. I looked at the Harbor Freight site, and that brush is # 6131-1VGA. Zak ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:54 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight > In a message "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: > > > Hi Greg, > > > > A few weeks back you mentioned Harbor Freight as a source of cheap airbrushes. I searched the web site and only came up with the $60 Pasche. Do you have a model number or some other info on the brush you were talking about? My Badger 150 is a bout to drive me crazy...it keeps clogging badly, which I haven't experineced before, even with Poly Scale...I think it is getting worn out! > > Happy Rails > Bruce< > > Bruce, Earl and all, > > Harbor Freight makes a very inexpensive airbrush set that includes a single action external mix airbrush, air can adapter, siphon bottle, and air hose for under 10 dollars. The set is often on sale for around ten dollars (like $4.99). Don't let the price scare you away as the brush works as well as any brush for 5 to 10 times the price. I keep a couple on hand at all times and I hate them because I have to replace them every 5 years or so. The external mix brush is not the best brush for using with acyllics but does work. They also make a brush Model #3200 which is a dual action internal mix brush nearly identical to the Badger #350 and an excellant internal mix airbrush especially at less than 40 dollars. Both brushes include a list of parts to use for replacement parts purposes. I also own a Badger #150 and a Wren External mix brush and I find myself using the "cheap Little" Harbor Frieght single action (like the Badger) brush more often than any other for all types of paint. > > Remember the clogging is often due to humidity and air temperature and not always the fault of the bruh ....unless the airflow (the little hole in the end) is restricted or has become enlarged changing the airpressure. Bruce check that before you buy another brush. But, as a good "back-up" pickup one of the "cheap little" Harbor Freight brushes, if you have a diffeculty finding one let me know I usually have a spare just in case the one I am using goes gunny in the next 5 years or so, I can send you one.... 3^) > > Greg Martin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "teabow" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/06/02 Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:00:10 -0500 Wouldn't be easier to model an H10 with a Bowser H9 kit than a Bachman consolidation ? I'm Sure you have your reasons,I'm really curious to hear what they are .Does the bachman run smoother,quieter,better or what. Ray Thibaut teabow@dbscorp.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "PRR-Talk" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 1:10 AM Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/06/02 PRR-Talk Digest - Wednesday, February 6, 2002 RE: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations by "Burnley, Charles" Photos Posted by "Jerry Britton" Northern Central Chapter Meeting This Sunday by "Jerry Britton" H10 dome dimensions by "Jerry Shickler" Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos by "Gregg Mahlkov" airbrushing G scale by "Earl M." Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale by "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale by "Gary Mittner" RE:steel mill photos was [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos by "Chany, Christopher" Re: [PRR] Northern Central Chapter Meeting by "Jerry Britton" Re: Harbor Freight by Re: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight by "Zak" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations From: "Burnley, Charles" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:42:27 -0500 Doug, Servicing the turbo-generator was the main reason for the change. With the turbo up on top of the smokebox access was difficult, time consuming and somewhat dangerous. During WWII when the change in location was initiated, maintenance time was critical to the war effort. In order to make this item easier and safer to maintain the headlight was raised to the top of the smokebox and the generator brought down in front and a "chin platform" for the service man to stand on was added to the lower smokebox front. This put the turbo and most of it's plumbing a convenient level to be maintained rather easily and quickly. This practice continuued after the war, although not all locomotives received this treatment. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Nelson [mailto:dougnelson@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:55 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations What was the purpose of reversing the location of generators and headlights on PRR steam locomotives? When was this change made? Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Photos Posted From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:53:00 -0500 Though taken on a cold rainy day this past December, I have posted some digital pics. These may be viewed by searching the database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ Included: * what's left of the "emergency water stop" at Cove, Pa. * Sherman's Creek bridge and VIEW interlocking * Duncannon passenger station ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Northern Central Chapter Meeting This Sunday From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:09:13 -0500 This Sunday, February 10, the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS will meet at 1:30 p.m. The PRR public is invited to attend, even if not a member of the Society or the Chapter. This will be the first meeting in a new meeting location...the Otterbein United Methodist Church. This move is to alleviate the rising costs of meeting at the Yorktown Hotel. The church is off of Philadelphia Street, about three blocks west of George Street. The February meeting is the annual "LCL Meeting", where attendees are encouraged to bring unusual PRR railroadiana or models to share with all. As an example, one year it was quite a site to see a half dozen grown men crawling all over a 1" = 100' valuation map of the entire Enola Yard, stretched across 15' of floor! This year I will be taking two "Board of Directors Inspection Trip" books from the 1950's which include all sorts of unique photos and track charts not found elsewhere. I'll also have a book on the sale of the Harrisburg Steel Plant from the 1950's, which includes a map of the railroad trackage through the plant, plus the sizes of most of the buildings making up the plant. Different! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: H10 dome dimensions From: "Jerry Shickler" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:10:15 -0500 Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of the steam & sand domes on an H10 (length/width/height at widest points)? I'm trying to convert a Bachmann consolidation, and am going to make them out of ABS rod. Thanks! --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:41:35 -0500 Roger:- Yes, I certainly DO mean the Pennsylvania Railroad. The PRR maintained a Sales Office in New Orleans from 1918 to its merger in 1968, and the PC maintained one there during its existence. The first time I was there I was the Office Manager (read Chief Clerk) 1962-1964, the second time I was a Sales Representative 1967-1973 (the last 5 under PC). In between I was a Rate Clerk in Cleveland and a Sales Representative in Baltimore. Prior to working for the railroad I went to Tulane University in New Orleans, which I suppose is why the PRR sent me there. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > In a message dated 2/4/02 3:43:32 PM Central Standard Time, mahlkov@gtcom.net > writes: > > << I lived in New Orleans three times and worked for the PRR there twice >> > > You worked for the PRR???? in New Orleans????? You mean Pennsylvania > Railroad?????? > > Roger > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: airbrushing G scale From: "Earl M." Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:04:28 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an airbrush......I am = doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so the areas to be = painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what kind of airbrush = set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" x 5" x 6" = and there are many of them to do..... I will also track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite = "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that tip! Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 I have noted all the postings ref = a newbie=20 with an airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, = gauge 1) so=20 the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what = kind of=20 airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" = x 5" x=20 6" and there are many of them to do.....
  I will also track down that RMC = July/Aug 82=20 issue thru my favorite "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that=20 tip!
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th = scale
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:18:02 -0600 Lew asks: > Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an >airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so >the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what >kind of airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car >is 16" x 5" x 6" and there are many of them to do..... I will also >track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite "old paper" >dealer. Sounds about right for the old "auto" spray can ...you know, the kind Walthers paints their HO and N scale stuff with as well ;^) Actually, I'm serious about the size of the spray can. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:46:41 -0500 (EST) Hey Earl. As you know I am in G Scale as well as most all the other scales. I use my (going on 20+ years) reliable Paasche H series with a #3 tip on all the above scales. A #5 tip maybe better suited for the large stuff but my #3 tip gets the job done just a well. Just adjust the tip open a bit more for larger coverage. I have done F3's, RS's, Geep and my Cabin Cars with no problem .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE:steel mill photos was [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: "Chany, Christopher" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:55:34 -0500 Listers, Forget the ships and boats go to http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm then click on home page and click on the steel mill photos! Get out the Walthers Blast Furnace!!!!! Chris Chany ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Northern Central Chapter Meeting From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:35:42 -0500 Since I overlooked it, and two people have asked, the Northern Central Chapter meeting is in York, Pa. Sorry! > This Sunday, February 10, the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS will > meet at 1:30 p.m. The PRR public is invited to attend, even if not a member > of the Society or the Chapter. > > This will be the first meeting in a new meeting location...the Otterbein > United Methodist Church. This move is to alleviate the rising costs of > meeting at the Yorktown Hotel. The church is off of Philadelphia Street, > about three blocks west of George Street. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Harbor Freight From: Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:54:06 EST In a message "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: > Hi Greg, > > A few weeks back you mentioned Harbor Freight as a source of cheap airbrushes. I searched the web site and only came up with the $60 Pasche. Do you have a model number or some other info on the brush you were talking about? My Badger 150 is a bout to drive me crazy...it keeps clogging badly, which I haven't experineced before, even with Poly Scale...I think it is getting worn out! Happy Rails Bruce< Bruce, Earl and all, Harbor Freight makes a very inexpensive airbrush set that includes a single action external mix airbrush, air can adapter, siphon bottle, and air hose for under 10 dollars. The set is often on sale for around ten dollars (like $4.99). Don't let the price scare you away as the brush works as well as any brush for 5 to 10 times the price. I keep a couple on hand at all times and I hate them because I have to replace them every 5 years or so. The external mix brush is not the best brush for using with acyllics but does work. They also make a brush Model #3200 which is a dual action internal mix brush nearly identical to the Badger #350 and an excellant internal mix airbrush especially at less than 40 dollars. Both brushes include a list of parts to use for replacement parts purposes. I also own a Badger #150 and a Wren External mix brush and I find myself using the "cheap Little" Harbor Frieght single action (like the Badger) brush more often than any other for all types of paint. Remember the clogging is often due to humidity and air temperature and not always the fault of the bruh ....unless the airflow (the little hole in the end) is restricted or has become enlarged changing the airpressure. Bruce check that before you buy another brush. But, as a good "back-up" pickup one of the "cheap little" Harbor Freight brushes, if you have a diffeculty finding one let me know I usually have a spare just in case the one I am using goes gunny in the next 5 years or so, I can send you one.... 3^) Greg Martin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight From: "Zak" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:36:21 -0500 Hi, all. I looked at the Harbor Freight site, and that brush is # 6131-1VGA. Zak ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:54 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight > In a message "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: > > > Hi Greg, > > > > A few weeks back you mentioned Harbor Freight as a source of cheap airbrushes. I searched the web site and only came up with the $60 Pasche. Do you have a model number or some other info on the brush you were talking about? My Badger 150 is a bout to drive me crazy...it keeps clogging badly, which I haven't experineced before, even with Poly Scale...I think it is getting worn out! > > Happy Rails > Bruce< > > Bruce, Earl and all, > > Harbor Freight makes a very inexpensive airbrush set that includes a single action external mix airbrush, air can adapter, siphon bottle, and air hose for under 10 dollars. The set is often on sale for around ten dollars (like $4.99). Don't let the price scare you away as the brush works as well as any brush for 5 to 10 times the price. I keep a couple on hand at all times and I hate them because I have to replace them every 5 years or so. The external mix brush is not the best brush for using with acyllics but does work. They also make a brush Model #3200 which is a dual action internal mix brush nearly identical to the Badger #350 and an excellant internal mix airbrush especially at less than 40 dollars. Both brushes include a list of parts to use for replacement parts purposes. I also own a Badger #150 and a Wren External mix brush and I find myself using the "cheap Little" Harbor Frieght single action (like the Badger) brush more often than any other for all types of paint. > > Remember the clogging is often due to humidity and air temperature and not always the fault of the bruh ....unless the airflow (the little hole in the end) is restricted or has become enlarged changing the airpressure. Bruce check that before you buy another brush. But, as a good "back-up" pickup one of the "cheap little" Harbor Freight brushes, if you have a diffeculty finding one let me know I usually have a spare just in case the one I am using goes gunny in the next 5 years or so, I can send you one.... 3^) > > Greg Martin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "teabow" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/06/02 Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:40:23 -0500 Wouldn't be easier to model an H10 with a Bowser H9 kit than a Bachman consolidation ? I'm Sure you have your reasons,I'm really curious to hear what they are .Does the bachman run smoother,quieter,better or what. Ray Thibaut teabow@dbscorp.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "PRR-Talk" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 1:10 AM Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/06/02 PRR-Talk Digest - Wednesday, February 6, 2002 RE: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations by "Burnley, Charles" Photos Posted by "Jerry Britton" Northern Central Chapter Meeting This Sunday by "Jerry Britton" H10 dome dimensions by "Jerry Shickler" Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos by "Gregg Mahlkov" airbrushing G scale by "Earl M." Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale by "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale by "Gary Mittner" RE:steel mill photos was [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos by "Chany, Christopher" Re: [PRR] Northern Central Chapter Meeting by "Jerry Britton" Re: Harbor Freight by Re: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight by "Zak" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations From: "Burnley, Charles" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:42:27 -0500 Doug, Servicing the turbo-generator was the main reason for the change. With the turbo up on top of the smokebox access was difficult, time consuming and somewhat dangerous. During WWII when the change in location was initiated, maintenance time was critical to the war effort. In order to make this item easier and safer to maintain the headlight was raised to the top of the smokebox and the generator brought down in front and a "chin platform" for the service man to stand on was added to the lower smokebox front. This put the turbo and most of it's plumbing a convenient level to be maintained rather easily and quickly. This practice continuued after the war, although not all locomotives received this treatment. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Nelson [mailto:dougnelson@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:55 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations What was the purpose of reversing the location of generators and headlights on PRR steam locomotives? When was this change made? Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Photos Posted From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:53:00 -0500 Though taken on a cold rainy day this past December, I have posted some digital pics. These may be viewed by searching the database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ Included: * what's left of the "emergency water stop" at Cove, Pa. * Sherman's Creek bridge and VIEW interlocking * Duncannon passenger station ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Northern Central Chapter Meeting This Sunday From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:09:13 -0500 This Sunday, February 10, the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS will meet at 1:30 p.m. The PRR public is invited to attend, even if not a member of the Society or the Chapter. This will be the first meeting in a new meeting location...the Otterbein United Methodist Church. This move is to alleviate the rising costs of meeting at the Yorktown Hotel. The church is off of Philadelphia Street, about three blocks west of George Street. The February meeting is the annual "LCL Meeting", where attendees are encouraged to bring unusual PRR railroadiana or models to share with all. As an example, one year it was quite a site to see a half dozen grown men crawling all over a 1" = 100' valuation map of the entire Enola Yard, stretched across 15' of floor! This year I will be taking two "Board of Directors Inspection Trip" books from the 1950's which include all sorts of unique photos and track charts not found elsewhere. I'll also have a book on the sale of the Harrisburg Steel Plant from the 1950's, which includes a map of the railroad trackage through the plant, plus the sizes of most of the buildings making up the plant. Different! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: H10 dome dimensions From: "Jerry Shickler" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:10:15 -0500 Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of the steam & sand domes on an H10 (length/width/height at widest points)? I'm trying to convert a Bachmann consolidation, and am going to make them out of ABS rod. Thanks! --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:41:35 -0500 Roger:- Yes, I certainly DO mean the Pennsylvania Railroad. The PRR maintained a Sales Office in New Orleans from 1918 to its merger in 1968, and the PC maintained one there during its existence. The first time I was there I was the Office Manager (read Chief Clerk) 1962-1964, the second time I was a Sales Representative 1967-1973 (the last 5 under PC). In between I was a Rate Clerk in Cleveland and a Sales Representative in Baltimore. Prior to working for the railroad I went to Tulane University in New Orleans, which I suppose is why the PRR sent me there. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > In a message dated 2/4/02 3:43:32 PM Central Standard Time, mahlkov@gtcom.net > writes: > > << I lived in New Orleans three times and worked for the PRR there twice >> > > You worked for the PRR???? in New Orleans????? You mean Pennsylvania > Railroad?????? > > Roger > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: airbrushing G scale From: "Earl M." Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:04:28 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an airbrush......I am = doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so the areas to be = painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what kind of airbrush = set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" x 5" x 6" = and there are many of them to do..... I will also track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite = "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that tip! Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 I have noted all the postings ref = a newbie=20 with an airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, = gauge 1) so=20 the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what = kind of=20 airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" = x 5" x=20 6" and there are many of them to do.....
  I will also track down that RMC = July/Aug 82=20 issue thru my favorite "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that=20 tip!
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th = scale
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:18:02 -0600 Lew asks: > Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an >airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so >the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what >kind of airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car >is 16" x 5" x 6" and there are many of them to do..... I will also >track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite "old paper" >dealer. Sounds about right for the old "auto" spray can ...you know, the kind Walthers paints their HO and N scale stuff with as well ;^) Actually, I'm serious about the size of the spray can. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:46:41 -0500 (EST) Hey Earl. As you know I am in G Scale as well as most all the other scales. I use my (going on 20+ years) reliable Paasche H series with a #3 tip on all the above scales. A #5 tip maybe better suited for the large stuff but my #3 tip gets the job done just a well. Just adjust the tip open a bit more for larger coverage. I have done F3's, RS's, Geep and my Cabin Cars with no problem .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE:steel mill photos was [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: "Chany, Christopher" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:55:34 -0500 Listers, Forget the ships and boats go to http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm then click on home page and click on the steel mill photos! Get out the Walthers Blast Furnace!!!!! Chris Chany ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Northern Central Chapter Meeting From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:35:42 -0500 Since I overlooked it, and two people have asked, the Northern Central Chapter meeting is in York, Pa. Sorry! > This Sunday, February 10, the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS will > meet at 1:30 p.m. The PRR public is invited to attend, even if not a member > of the Society or the Chapter. > > This will be the first meeting in a new meeting location...the Otterbein > United Methodist Church. This move is to alleviate the rising costs of > meeting at the Yorktown Hotel. The church is off of Philadelphia Street, > about three blocks west of George Street. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Harbor Freight From: Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:54:06 EST In a message "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: > Hi Greg, > > A few weeks back you mentioned Harbor Freight as a source of cheap airbrushes. I searched the web site and only came up with the $60 Pasche. Do you have a model number or some other info on the brush you were talking about? My Badger 150 is a bout to drive me crazy...it keeps clogging badly, which I haven't experineced before, even with Poly Scale...I think it is getting worn out! Happy Rails Bruce< Bruce, Earl and all, Harbor Freight makes a very inexpensive airbrush set that includes a single action external mix airbrush, air can adapter, siphon bottle, and air hose for under 10 dollars. The set is often on sale for around ten dollars (like $4.99). Don't let the price scare you away as the brush works as well as any brush for 5 to 10 times the price. I keep a couple on hand at all times and I hate them because I have to replace them every 5 years or so. The external mix brush is not the best brush for using with acyllics but does work. They also make a brush Model #3200 which is a dual action internal mix brush nearly identical to the Badger #350 and an excellant internal mix airbrush especially at less than 40 dollars. Both brushes include a list of parts to use for replacement parts purposes. I also own a Badger #150 and a Wren External mix brush and I find myself using the "cheap Little" Harbor Frieght single action (like the Badger) brush more often than any other for all types of paint. Remember the clogging is often due to humidity and air temperature and not always the fault of the bruh ....unless the airflow (the little hole in the end) is restricted or has become enlarged changing the airpressure. Bruce check that before you buy another brush. But, as a good "back-up" pickup one of the "cheap little" Harbor Freight brushes, if you have a diffeculty finding one let me know I usually have a spare just in case the one I am using goes gunny in the next 5 years or so, I can send you one.... 3^) Greg Martin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight From: "Zak" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:36:21 -0500 Hi, all. I looked at the Harbor Freight site, and that brush is # 6131-1VGA. Zak ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:54 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: Harbor Freight > In a message "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: > > > Hi Greg, > > > > A few weeks back you mentioned Harbor Freight as a source of cheap airbrushes. I searched the web site and only came up with the $60 Pasche. Do you have a model number or some other info on the brush you were talking about? My Badger 150 is a bout to drive me crazy...it keeps clogging badly, which I haven't experineced before, even with Poly Scale...I think it is getting worn out! > > Happy Rails > Bruce< > > Bruce, Earl and all, > > Harbor Freight makes a very inexpensive airbrush set that includes a single action external mix airbrush, air can adapter, siphon bottle, and air hose for under 10 dollars. The set is often on sale for around ten dollars (like $4.99). Don't let the price scare you away as the brush works as well as any brush for 5 to 10 times the price. I keep a couple on hand at all times and I hate them because I have to replace them every 5 years or so. The external mix brush is not the best brush for using with acyllics but does work. They also make a brush Model #3200 which is a dual action internal mix brush nearly identical to the Badger #350 and an excellant internal mix airbrush especially at less than 40 dollars. Both brushes include a list of parts to use for replacement parts purposes. I also own a Badger #150 and a Wren External mix brush and I find myself using the "cheap Little" Harbor Frieght single action (like the Badger) brush more often than any other for all types of paint. > > Remember the clogging is often due to humidity and air temperature and not always the fault of the bruh ....unless the airflow (the little hole in the end) is restricted or has become enlarged changing the airpressure. Bruce check that before you buy another brush. But, as a good "back-up" pickup one of the "cheap little" Harbor Freight brushes, if you have a diffeculty finding one let me know I usually have a spare just in case the one I am using goes gunny in the next 5 years or so, I can send you one.... 3^) > > Greg Martin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diseasel Paint Schemes Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:32:59 -0600 Listers--Wow, this thread sure got knocked around a bit. Vagel's question might be more concisely answered this way: All PRR diesels, including passenger, were delivered in DGLE except FP7's 9832-9835 (and their two accompanying B units) and E8's 5700-5716 and 5760-5764, delivered in late 1952. The Tuscan with five stripes scheme was adopted in mid 1952; all PA's, E7's and DGLE E8's were subsequently repainted. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: [PRR] Another Diesel Question Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 22:55:29 -0600 After PRR E7's were delivered, they were modified by changing the filter housing immediately behind the cab door, adding three side vents, repacing the forward side window pair with a single window, and providing an additional vent grille at the rear of the side. Can anyone point me toward a photo of an E7 without these changes in service in 1954? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:48:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Cabin Car info/photo Help Hi Guys, First, sorry for the cross postings, but I need to get this out to as many as possible. The local chapter of the NRHS (Beaverr Valley Junction) owns ex-PRR N5c #477974. Restoration work will soon commence to get this cabin from Conrail colors back to PRR colors. In fact we are going to try to place all the pre-CR apliances back too if possible, ie Roof Walk, Full Ladders, Pedestal Steps, Cupola Grabs, Removal of the steel kick plate, etc. Some research has been done and we have found out that this Cabin was assigned to the Willamsport, Southport area (Elmira Branch) for at least part of its service history. Several photosgraphs showing the 477974 have been found in the Elmira Banch book on the PRR and in Pennsy Steam Years #1. These photos date from 1956. In those photos the cabin is still wearing the as delivered paint scheme of 1941. We are trying to locate additional photos of this cabin, PRR N5c #477974, in later years after 1956. We want to learn if this cabin recieved either of the later paint schemes, ie Shadow Keystone scheme of 1955 or the Plain Keystone scheme of 1961. We are wondering if the car was possibly bypassed these paint/lettering schemes? We do know the Cabin recieved the Focal Orange paint of 1965 because the remnants of orange is still evident on the porch grates, so is the PC Green too.... If anyone has Cabin photos or more slides/photos of the Elmira Branch in their collection, please take a few moments to see if you can spot the 477974 in any other finish other than the early lettering scheme. If photo proof can be made, then the Beaver Valley Chapter can decide on the scheme this N5c is to be restored to. We would like to restore it to something it actually wore.........Thanks on behalf of the BVJ NRHS........Gary ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:32:36 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PU Coaches Listers- Can anyone provide info on following PRR coach classes: PU-72R- #1175-1178- 82' car Seats 72 PU-84- #1202-1205- 82' car Seats 84 PU-88R- #1161-1172- 83' car Seats 88 PU-88 -#1200,1201,1214-1221- 83' car Seats 88 They are listed In the ORPTE as PB steel coaches, but I have never heard of the PU class. Any help will be appreciated. Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:32:36 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] PU Coaches Listers- Can anyone provide info on following PRR coach classes: PU-72R- #1175-1178- 82' car Seats 72 PU-84- #1202-1205- 82' car Seats 84 PU-88R- #1161-1172- 83' car Seats 88 PU-88 -#1200,1201,1214-1221- 83' car Seats 88 They are listed In the ORPTE as PB steel coaches, but I have never heard of the PU class. Any help will be appreciated. Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 07:30:45 EST Subject: [PRR] Passche H3 my choice also In a message dated 2/5/02 1:12:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:06:00 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C1ADAE.FC178880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I concur with Andy on the use of the single action airbrush for painting = models, particularly for a beginner. You can do an expert job painting = with the "H" model brush (even a less expensive brand like Wren or = Badger) easier than you can with the double acting brush. It is easier = to learn the techniques of painting with a single action brush because = the only variables are your distance to the object and the amount of air = you are using. The volume of paint is "fixed" by the nozzle adjustment. = Once you have the basic painting technique down pat, get a second = airbrush - a double acting - to use for delicate weathering, shading = etc. >> I also concur that the Passche H3 is a remarkably useful tool. Simple to clean, it has been my favorite since it was recommended to me 30 years ago. Of course, a different make or model might feel more "natural" in your hand (isn't that why there are so many kinds of hand guns?), but I've found it a durable and precise tool for my needs in painting and weathering HO models. It's plating is still unblemished after all these years, and I can still buy new tips for it. I'll readily concede that double action airbrushes can do some jobs faster than an H3 -- I own a Badger double action, but rarely get it out. I'd probably be afraid to run the new "solventless" paints through the insides of a double action unit. The H3 on the other hand, has all straight paint passages so it can be cleaned out by solvent, Q-tip, unbent paper clip, or even (gently) handheld drill bit, as necessary. With 3 airbrushes on the property, I still find myself getting out the H3 - even to do weathering. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 09:01:10 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Passche H3 my choice also One last detail about the Paashe model H. All the paint bearing parts are cheap and replaceable. I keep a stock of jar cap and siphons which fit directly on Floquil jars (about $2.50 +/-), and when one gets beyond easily being cleaned, I toss it and start a new one. There is a Paashe dealer who shows up every year at Springfield to replenish my stock of spare parts. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 09:13:13 -0500 Subject: [PRR] LISTMASTER - Please Make Sensible Replies From: Jerry Britton Reminder to all: When responding to a post, especially with digests, please include in your post only that portion of the original post that pertains to your response. Also, please edit the Subject accordingly. The current offender -- who included yesterdays complete digest in several posts, causing new digests to be cut -- has been contacted off-list. Please allow a few more hours for the dust to clear. The listserv actually did quite well at keeping things moving; I was pleased with that respect. However, I'm sure it left a few of your mailboxes complaining! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 09:50:56 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: [PCL] PU Coaches In a message dated 2/8/02 2:29:30 AM Central Standard Time, docfoot@bellsouth.net writes: << Can anyone provide info on following PRR coach classes: PU-72R- #1175-1178- 82' car Seats 72 PU-84- #1202-1205- 82' car Seats 84 PU-88R- #1161-1172- 83' car Seats 88 PU-88 -#1200,1201,1214-1221- 83' car Seats 88 They are listed In the ORPTE as PB steel coaches, but I have never heard of the PU class. >> These cars and other PRR wartime emergency coach conversions from old Pullmans were covered in some detail in an excellent 30 page article by Chuck Blardone in the Summer 2001 issue of the Keystone of the PRRT&HS. Briefly: PU72R: 5 cars ex 24 chair-DR-Buffet parlor cars PU84: 8 cars ex Exhibit (?) and Baggage-club-smokers (streamlined arch roofs) PU88: a mix of 16 ex parlor-buffets and Baggage-club-smokers PU88R: a mix of 15 ex parlor-buffet and parlor-cafe cars The suffix R in PRR classification indicates air conditioning in cars of that era. Most cars were scrapped during or after the Korean war. Other interesting conversions to me were the 47 open-end Pullman observations, some with new vestibules,some with reinforced open platforms,and some with unmodified open platforms. Some of the above cars were used in troop train service,others for short hauls of,for example, shipyard workers. In the latter service were some of the more primitive conversions (wood-slat seats). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:02:18 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/07/02 From: John Sheets on 2/7/02 8:48 PM, PRR-Talk at PRR-Talk@dsop.com wrote: > > The only red one I know of was the Baldwin switcher > assigned to Sunnyside that later wound up working out of > Pavnoia in Camden. Does anybody know why this switcher > fell into disfavor in New York and was banished to > southern New Jersey? There are a few great shots of that RED Baldwin 5916 in New Jersey in Ball's book, Pennsylvania Railroad, 1940's-1950's on ppg 78-79, including one assisting a K-4's ! Ball also references the Sunnyside assignment, but gives no dates. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 12:17:57 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] Key Imports N Brass PRR GG-1 and Q-2 From: Jerry Britton On 2/8/02 11:16 AM, dondia@att.net (dondia@att.net) wrote: > This may be old news to some but Key Imports has > announced two new PRR N Models > > Details here > > http://nscaledivision.com/key_imports.htm > > Standard disclaimer; no affiliation with NSD > I am a Key dealer, so take my thoughts bearing that in mind... I spoke with Key a few weeks ago. They were considering either the S1 or the Q2. If you will recall, I did a little poll on this list, which agreed with my thought, that the S1 would be popular with collectors, but that the Q2 would be better for those who actually run their locomotives. Primary reason was the Q2 had many road numbers vs. just one. Secondary reason was that, although they were built around the same time, the Q2's lasted several years later than the S1. I believe this was a good choice by Key. I was, however, surprised by the GG-1 announcement. I'm sure they will be beautiful, but there are certainly non-brass offerings out there. Why compete with units 1/5 the price? Why not do the P5, P5a, and modifieds? The J1's, due anytime, will be wonderful. The H8/H9/H10 project is backburnered. They want to do it, but don't have enough reservations yet to warrant it. In my opinion, this line was a poor choice. The H8's and H10's were strictly Lines West locos, so their sellability is hurt right there. Not to slight the LW crowd, but that's just the population statistics talking. Okay, and H9 is good. But what about one or more of the smaller H class locos that commonly ran switching duties? The HH-1 is another project waiting for more reservations. I gotta think it will actually be cancelled with Life Like's announcement of this unit in plastic at a much lower price. No votes being solicited, but I'd be eager for an I-1. Also a small steam switcher. A B-1 rat is probably too much to ask for, nor could I ever get DCC into it with today's technology. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 12:32:00 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] PRR 10-6 sleepers The new Vol II of PRR Passenger Cars - Sleepers, has several photos of PRR 10-6 sleepers. They have raised some questions in my mind about the visible differences between PS cars and ACF cars. In the past I had always thought that the PS cars had the bedroom windows paired while the ACF cars had them evenly spaced. I made this assumption from the HO model of an ACF car by Rivarossi. It has evenly spaced BR windows. However, all the photos I can find, both in this book and elsewhere show the ACF cars also had the BR windows paired. I know there were several series of ACF 10-6s on the PRR, some welded, some riveted. Did Rivarossi just blow it or are there some ACF 10-6s with evenly spaced BR windows? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 12:42:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 10-6 sleepers From: Jerry Britton On 2/8/02 12:32 PM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > The new Vol II of PRR Passenger Cars - Sleepers, has several photos of > PRR 10-6 sleepers. They have raised some questions in my mind about the > visible differences between PS cars and ACF cars. In the past I had > always thought that the PS cars had the bedroom windows paired while the > ACF cars had them evenly spaced. I made this assumption from the HO > model of an ACF car by Rivarossi. It has evenly spaced BR windows. > However, all the photos I can find, both in this book and elsewhere show > the ACF cars also had the BR windows paired. I know there were several > series of ACF 10-6s on the PRR, some welded, some riveted. Did > Rivarossi just blow it or are there some ACF 10-6s with evenly spaced BR > windows? > Different floor plans from the same manufacturer. I believe the Texas Eagle cars were plan 9xxx or something. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 12:58:23 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 10-6 sleepers AFAIK all ACF cars were ACF plan 9008, i.e. the alternating lengthwise-crosswise beds. Only PS delivered both styles. The PS plan 4140 was the same as the ACF 9008, while the PS plan 4129 had all crosswise beds. (Or was it the other way around??) Interestingly, you can tell those two apart by the windows. The 4129s had the BR window pairs evenly spaced, while the 4140s had them unevenly spaced. (Or was it the other way around??) They can also be distinguished by their names. The 4129s were A-M RAPIDS, while the 4140s were N-Z RAPIDS. (Or was it the other way around??) The ACF cars were all over the alphabet. But I have still been unable to find photographic evidence that the ACF cars ever had evenly spaced BR windows like the Rivarossi model !! Regards, Andy Miller (Or am I the other way around??) asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > On 2/8/02 12:32 PM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > > > The new Vol II of PRR Passenger Cars - Sleepers, has several photos of > > PRR 10-6 sleepers. They have raised some questions in my mind about the > > visible differences between PS cars and ACF cars. In the past I had > > always thought that the PS cars had the bedroom windows paired while the > > ACF cars had them evenly spaced. I made this assumption from the HO > > model of an ACF car by Rivarossi. It has evenly spaced BR windows. > > However, all the photos I can find, both in this book and elsewhere show > > the ACF cars also had the BR windows paired. I know there were several > > series of ACF 10-6s on the PRR, some welded, some riveted. Did > > Rivarossi just blow it or are there some ACF 10-6s with evenly spaced BR > > windows? > > > Different floor plans from the same manufacturer. I believe the Texas Eagle > cars were plan 9xxx or something. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 15:34:45 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Another Diesel Question Steve writes... > After PRR E7's were delivered, they were modified by changing the filter housing immediately behind the cab door, adding three side vents,< This vent was a result in the EMD production carbody change from the E-6 to the E-7. It was the orginal placement of the cab entry door of the E-6 and became a car body filter on the E-7. >replacing the forward side window pair with a single window, and providing an additional vent grille at the rear of the side.< Cooling was a problem for the E-7's and the vents were needed to correct this as well as the change of the "louvers" on the roof to a wire grilled opening (like those found on the later production SW-900 and SW-1200), take note this was an after market change. Now the "Q" boys would tell you, "it wouldn't have been needed if you ran your trains faster..." 3^) >Can anyone point me toward a photo of an E7 without these changes in service in 1954? > Steve Hoxie< That would be a rare find Steve... 3^) Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Zak" Subject: Re: [PRR] Another Diesel Question Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 03:57:24 -0500 In one of the issues of RMC, either last year or the year before, there was an article on the PRR E-7, which had a photo in it showing an E-7 before modification of the signboard. I don't remember what else was in the shot. Hope this helps. Zak ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Another Diesel Question > Steve writes... > >Can anyone point me toward a photo of an E7 without these changes in service in 1954? > > Steve Hoxie< > > That would be a rare find Steve... 3^) > > Greg Martin > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] Another Diesel Question Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 06:34:46 -0500 Gentlemen, The article Zak mentions is RMC of May 2000 by Mark Shape. Said article describes making the changes Steve is discussing, as well as adding the trainphone antenna, the standoff 45 deg. number boards and nose liftrings. Unfortunatly there is no mention of when all of these modifications were done. However, the finished product is to be done up in 5 stripe, tuscan red. Greg has pointed out the filtration modifications were done almost immediately upon delivery. I would expect the addition of the trainphones were done in a similar time frame, but when do the nose liftrings and 45 deg number boards come into play? One thing the article brings out, not all of the EP20 received new boards, as there is a pic of an A unit with the original boards in 5 stripe, tuscan red The reason I am jumping in, I am planning to do an A-B and an A-A set myself, circa '52. The posts by Andy and Steve concerning paint color answered a question I was getting ready to post. Sounds like Steve may have the same project coming up as I do. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/06/02 Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 11:51:34 -0500 I was able to pick up the Bachmann back when EToys had them for $50. The overall dimensions aren't that far off, and I think the Bowser looks too toylike. This is the first time I'm attempting anything more difficult than putting together a freight car kit, so who knows how it'll turn out -- but so far, so good. I'll post pictures if it turns out half way decent. Still got a ways to go on it, though. --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: teabow To: PRR-Talk Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 9:56 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/06/02 > Wouldn't be easier to model an H10 with a Bowser H9 kit than a Bachman > consolidation ? I'm Sure you have your reasons,I'm really curious to hear > what they are .Does the bachman run smoother,quieter,better or what. > Ray Thibaut > teabow@dbscorp.net > > > Subject: H10 dome dimensions > From: "Jerry Shickler" > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:10:15 -0500 > > Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of the steam & sand domes on an > H10 (length/width/height at widest points)? I'm trying to convert a > Bachmann consolidation, and am going to make them out of ABS rod. Thanks! > --- > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Another Diesel Question Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 12:43:36 -0600 At least for F units, I've seen builder photos of F units at Lagrange with the antennas already in place. Perhaps they were added at the factory for E-7s as well. -----Original Message----- From: WaltP [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 5:35 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Cc: steveh@dotstar.net Subject: [PRR] Another Diesel Question Gentlemen, The article Zak mentions is RMC of May 2000 by Mark Shape. Said article describes making the changes Steve is discussing, as well as adding the trainphone antenna, the standoff 45 deg. number boards and nose liftrings. Unfortunatly there is no mention of when all of these modifications were done. However, the finished product is to be done up in 5 stripe, tuscan red. Greg has pointed out the filtration modifications were done almost immediately upon delivery. I would expect the addition of the trainphones were done in a similar time frame, but when do the nose liftrings and 45 deg number boards come into play? One thing the article brings out, not all of the EP20 received new boards, as there is a pic of an A unit with the original boards in 5 stripe, tuscan red The reason I am jumping in, I am planning to do an A-B and an A-A set myself, circa '52. The posts by Andy and Steve concerning paint color answered a question I was getting ready to post. Sounds like Steve may have the same project coming up as I do. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 20:13:52 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: PU Coaches Brian, Andy, Bob, Charlie & Garry: Thanks to all for the quick responses. I do have the "Keystone" noted. However, I had surgery this summer and did not pay as much attention to it as I should have. Again, many thanks. Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 20:13:52 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] Re: PU Coaches Brian, Andy, Bob, Charlie & Garry: Thanks to all for the quick responses. I do have the "Keystone" noted. However, I had surgery this summer and did not pay as much attention to it as I should have. Again, many thanks. Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl M." Subject: [PRR] AB brake systems Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 22:46:10 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C1B1BB.9172B8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; Does anybody know where a drawing of this system may exist? I am = interested in making my own Resevoir, 3 way valve and air = cylinder.....in 1/29th scale....so am looking for dimensional drawings = of those 3 parts to start with. Earl Myers ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C1B1BB.9172B8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 Does anybody know where a drawing = of this=20 system may exist? I am interested in making my own Resevoir, 3 way valve = and air=20 cylinder.....in 1/29th scale....so am looking for dimensional drawings = of those=20 3 parts to start with.
Earl Myers
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C1B1BB.9172B8E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] AB brake systems Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 23:23:50 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1B1C0.D4EB1D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Earl, The drawings should be in the Car Builder's Cyclopedia or the Car and = Locomotive Cyclopedias for the era from 1940 to 1980. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Earl M.=20 To: PRR Talk=20 Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 10:46 PM Subject: [PRR] AB brake systems Gents; Does anybody know where a drawing of this system may exist? I am = interested in making my own Resevoir, 3 way valve and air = cylinder.....in 1/29th scale....so am looking for dimensional drawings = of those 3 parts to start with. Earl Myers ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1B1C0.D4EB1D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Earl,
 
The drawings should be in the Car Builder's = Cyclopedia or the=20 Car and Locomotive Cyclopedias for the era from 1940 to = 1980.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Earl = M.
Sent: Saturday, February 09, = 2002 10:46=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] AB brake = systems

Gents;
 Does anybody know where a = drawing of this=20 system may exist? I am interested in making my own Resevoir, 3 way = valve and=20 air cylinder.....in 1/29th scale....so am looking for dimensional = drawings of=20 those 3 parts to start with.
Earl = Myers
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1B1C0.D4EB1D60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 03:59:32 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] 110P75A type 5 Hello list, Now that my apartment is (somewhat) organized, I've returned to a project I started a year or two ago. While struggling mentally with the HO Bachmann 110P70 and trying to find a better way to make it suitable for a stoker fired K4s, I remembered the streamlined K4s tenders. According to Keyser's excellent Kiesel tender article in the Summer 1988 Keystone, there were a total of 5 110P75A tenders that got smooth sides (light gauge metal over the rivited skins); one for each of the streamlined K4s engines (remember that K4s 3768 surrendered her 180P75 circa 1940 in favor of a 110P75a streamlined like the K4s engines that got shrouds in 1940-41). So, I sanded off all of the rivets on the tender tank, cut off the coal bunker, and fabricated a new one from styrene. Correcting the deck height and the ladder size was also a sheet styrene project. I added the slope sheet, braces, ladders, grabs and marker lights this week. For the rear marker lights, I arranged mine in accordance with the plans in the Many Faces of the Pennsy K4; ie along the rear of the tender tank. For the brackets, I hacked away at some brass sheet until I had a smallish bracket with angled sides for the two outer markers. For the center marker, I added some sheet styrene to form a base for the center marker (which served as a backup light). This wasn't a horrendous drain on my tattered sanity. However, if someone offers me a 110P75A in brass, I will probably snap it up.....grin! Final step is to figure out if the 110P75A type 5 actually made it onto the New York and Long Branch....pictures, anyone? Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl M." Subject: [PRR] tender drawings Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 13:04:55 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C1B233.88D7BA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; Anyone know a good source for tender drawings? I have the Kalmbach = Cyclopedia and some MR back issues....that about it? Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C1B233.88D7BA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 Anyone know a good source for = tender=20 drawings? I have the Kalmbach Cyclopedia and some MR back issues....that = about=20 it?
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th = scale
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C1B233.88D7BA00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 20:55:48 EST Subject: [PRR] N-8 ? Rail Classics web site shows HO N-8 cabins coming in several PRR paint schemes 2 PC versions CR blue and Illinois Central Gulf. I've seen an N-5, around Cleveland, that made it to CSX ownership and is stenciled NYC - are any N-8's still active? Question - were these built for the ICG or sold surplus by the Pennsy PC or CR? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] N-8 ? Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 23:54:49 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1B28E.53634780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to a "Rails Northeast" photo caption, as many as 19. Apparently= , 19 N-8's were listed in the for sale section of by Chemical Bank of NY = on page 5 of issue 7 of "PC Railroader." This, however, does not give an = exact number of cars sold to ICG; they could have purchased less than 19. The photo in "Rails Northeast" does show a nice pic of ICG 199111 in Loui= sville, KY on 5/29/76. The N-8 is in ICG orange but alas the white "ic" i= n the black circle, is not centered on the side. Ted Andrews =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: VVA249@aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 9:06 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] N-8 ? =20 Rail Classics web site shows HO N-8 cabins coming in several PRR paint schemes 2 PC versions CR blue and Illinois Central Gulf. I've seen an N-5= , around Cleveland, that made it to CSX ownership and is stenciled NYC - ar= e any N-8's still active? Question - were these built for the ICG or sold surplus by the Pennsy PC = or CR? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1B28E.53634780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
According to&n= bsp;a "Rails Northeast" photo caption, as many as 19. Appa= rently, 19 N-8's were listed in the for sale section of by= Chemical Bank of NY on page 5 of issue 7 of "PC Railroader." This, howev= er, does not give an exact number of cars sold to ICG; they cou= ld have purchased less than 19.
 
The photo in= "Rails Northeast" does show a nice pic of ICG 199111 in Louisville,= KY on 5/29/76. The N-8 is in ICG orange but alas the white "ic" in the b= lack circle, is not centered on the side.
 
Ted Andrews  
 
-= ---- Original Message -----
From: VVA249@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 9:06 PM
<= DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] N-8 ?
 Rail Classics web site shows HO N-8 cabins coming in several PRR paint=
schemes 2 PC versions CR blue and Illinois Central Gulf. I've seen an= N-5,
around Cleveland, that made it to CSX ownership and is stenciled= NYC - are
any N-8's still active?
Question - were these built for = the ICG or sold surplus by the Pennsy PC or
CR?

---------------= --------------------------------------------------------
For assistanc= e with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1B28E.53634780-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 07:30:27 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] modeling questions Hi, I have several modeling questions. Who can help me out? a. Is the Walthers dynamometer car a model that was used by the PRR? Did the PRR have dynamometer cars? b. Is the new Kalmbach book about Locomotive servicing terminals usefull for the Pennsy? c. I have a Walthers Russell Snowplow decorated for the CNW. The yellow color seems a bit to yellow. Which color do I need to repaint it? Was the roof of the Snowplow, the waklway and the roof of the copula black? Which interior color was used? Which decal set do I need for 1954? Thanks, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:33:55 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Cabin Cars in Passenger Service From: Jerry Britton Question came up at the Northern Central Chapter, PRRT&HS, meeting yesterday... Did any cabin cars assigned to passenger service (REA) ever get train phones? One attendee indicated that, in addition to steam lines, passenger trains also had a communication line, negating the need for train phone. The locos had trainphones, so one could surmise that trainphone was used from loco to lineside and then internal line from loco to cabin. Can anyone shed light on this? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:36:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] modeling questions From: Jerry Britton On 2/11/02 10:30 AM, Geoffrey Van Dooren (geoff_vandooren@yahoo.com) wrote: > a. Is the Walthers dynamometer car a model that was > used by the PRR? Did the PRR have dynamometer cars? The PRR did have dynamometer cars. Railworks had planned to do the exact PRR car in brass, up until the Walters announcement, which killed the project. The Walthers car is similar, but previous statements on this list have said it is not quite right. > > b. Is the new Kalmbach book about Locomotive servicing > terminals usefull for the Pennsy? > It's not bad. In fact, there are a few PRR examples. A lot of the plans are rehashed from various MR articles. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:31:53 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] modeling questions Geoffrey asks: >a. Is the Walthers dynamometer car a model that was >used by the PRR? Did the PRR have dynamometer cars? No, yes, no models >b. Is the new Kalmbach book about Locomotive servicing >terminals usefull for the Pennsy? Hmmm, don't really know. The book "Set Up Running" does a nice job of providing some insight (although not specific layouts) into PRR engine terminal practices. Obviously, if you are modeling a specific terminal, you need to follow it. If you want a generic PRR terminal, I would suggest looking at several prototypes that are a similar size (ie don't use Enola if you're modleing a branch line!) to get an idea, and try to use "standard" PRR structures. >c. I have a Walthers Russell Snowplow decorated for >the CNW. The yellow color seems a bit to yellow. Which >color do I need to repaint it? Was the roof of the >Snowplow, the waklway and the roof of the copula >black? Which interior color was used? >Which decal set do I need for 1954? Ah, the Walthers Russel plow, decorated in an auto body shop...at least every example I have seen has the thickest gloppiest ugly paint around! You may want to consider grit blasting it as no stripper known to humankind will remove that crap! Now, for 1954, I would consider the grey/black scheme ;^) Partly as I'm not sure what yeller to tell you to use, and partly because it was unlikely that the plow was repainted by then! However, if you insist on yeller, yes the roof of the cupola, the running boards and often the plow faces themselves were painted black (note here I would Polyscale Steam Power black as it is not an absolute black and shows detail well). For the grey scheme, I use D&H grey with varying amounts of reefer white (a tad, a smidgen, a hint) to fade it slightly. Great photos of the plows are in the PRR color guides, vol 1 & 2. As for decals, try Champ set: HC-120N for HO Scale (M of W Car, black lettering). BTW, this track represents a single track plow and would not have been seen on double track (or 3 or 4 track) lines. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:30:11 -0800 (PST) From: george carey Subject: [PRR] PRR Sleeper? A duplex sleeper in UP colors with a PRR signboard recently was auctioned on E-bay as Item # 1699103810. It didn't look familiar, and I was wondering if anyone knew if this was a legitimate PRR class. If so, what is the the class, the manufacturer, and the names of cars in the class? The picture on E-bay shows what appear to be a vestibule, 4 duplex windows, 4 bedroom windows and 4 more duplex windows. Any information would be appreciated. GDC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Sleeper? Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:09:09 +0000 The PRR was one of the proponents of cross country travel in one car. As such they were very willing to repaint some equipment for other railroads who would participate in adding the PRR car to their consists at transfer points in ST. Louis and Chicago primarily. I believe the car painted for UP was the Bedford Falls and would have been part of the Falls class of cars. Among the others was a car for the Zephyr, a couple of Mopac cars for the eagles, Texas Special cars(s), the UP overland and Santa Fe two tone gray cars and a couple lettered for ACL or SCL. Yes there is a prototype for a UP painted car with PRR in the corners. Was the configuration correct? I don't know. > A duplex sleeper in UP colors with a PRR signboard > recently was auctioned on E-bay as Item # 1699103810. > It didn't look familiar, and I was wondering if anyone > knew if this was a legitimate PRR class. If so, what > is the the class, the manufacturer, and the names of > cars in the class? > > The picture on E-bay shows what appear to be a > vestibule, 4 duplex windows, 4 bedroom windows and 4 > more duplex windows. Any information would be > appreciated. > > GDC > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:12:07 -0500 Subject: [PRR] N Scale X-29 Dreadnaughts in PRR from Red Caboose From: Jerry Britton A few weeks ago Red Caboose announced a run of N scale X-29's with dreadnaught ends in PRR livery. They are due in March and feature the Shadow Keystone with a re-weigh date of 1954. Several people have asked me about the car color. The earlier X-29's and the new X-29 both indicate "Pennsy Red" on Red Caboose's web site. I just got an e-mail from Red Caboose indicating that the new cars will indeed be the darker "Freight Car Color", based on color drift cards from the Society. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: N Scale X-29 Dreadnaughts in PRR from Red Caboose Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:17:23 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell On 11 Feb, Jerry Britton wrote: > A few weeks ago Red Caboose announced a run of N scale X-29's with > dreadnaught ends in PRR livery. They are due in March and feature the Shadow > Keystone with a re-weigh date of 1954. > > Several people have asked me about the car color. The earlier X-29's and the > new X-29 both indicate "Pennsy Red" on Red Caboose's web site. > > I just got an e-mail from Red Caboose indicating that the new cars will > indeed be the darker "Freight Car Color", based on color drift cards from > the Society. Great news! Thanks for passing it on! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] modeling questions Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:46:22 -0000 Geoffrey, You could also try the old Triang snow plow, which came bare plastic, however you would need to replace the trucks. Here in the UK it is possible to pick one up for about £4. Patrick Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Van Dooren" To: "PRR talk list" Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 3:30 PM Subject: [PRR] modeling questions > Hi, > > I have several modeling questions. Who can help me > out? > > a. Is the Walthers dynamometer car a model that was > used by the PRR? Did the PRR have dynamometer cars? > > b. Is the new Kalmbach book about Locomotive servicing > terminals usefull for the Pennsy? > > c. I have a Walthers Russell Snowplow decorated for > the CNW. The yellow color seems a bit to yellow. Which > color do I need to repaint it? Was the roof of the > Snowplow, the waklway and the roof of the copula > black? Which interior color was used? > Which decal set do I need for 1954? > > Thanks, > Geoffrey > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Research Material Question Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:08:27 -0500 I have a question for the list. I am running out of space (read wife is complaining about the amount of space I'm using) for all the train magazines that come to my house. I have tried 2 ways to keep it under control and still be able to quickly retrieve Pennsy info. 1)Store all the magazines in boxes and keep a list of the articles. 2)Photo copy the article and store by article type in a three ring binder. The second allows easier retrieval and takes up less space but since I don't copy in color I lose that aspect in RMC and MR articles. The problem with the first is that among all my Hobby magazines I fill up more than one magazine box a year! Any use any other ideas. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:18:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Research Material Question From: Jerry Britton On 2/11/02 3:08 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > I have a question for the list. > > I am running out of space (read wife is complaining about the amount of > space I'm using) for all the train magazines that come to my house. I have > tried 2 ways to keep it under control and still be able to quickly retrieve > Pennsy info. > > 1)Store all the magazines in boxes and keep a list of the articles. > > 2)Photo copy the article and store by article type in a three ring binder. > > The second allows easier retrieval and takes up less space but since I don't > copy in color I lose that aspect in RMC and MR articles. The problem with > the first is that among all my Hobby magazines I fill up more than one > magazine box a year! > > Any use any other ideas. > I don't suppose we could convince magazine publishers to provide CD-ROM's of Acrobat PDF files once a year at additional cost? They take up almost no space, are text searchable, and provide perfect prints. Too much to ask, I suppose! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:38:15 EST From: WAJK4@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Research Material Question You could always tear (or remove the staples and neatly cut the pages) the pages out of the magazine and then place them into the three ring binder. This way you keep the color, you cut down on the space needed to store your articles, and could also possibly keep the cover of the magazine if you wish. I hope this helps. Walt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:02:10 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Sleeper? There is no prototype for this car. It is a generic car made by Balboa and painted in any scheme they thought would sell. It is roughly based on a GN/NP sleeper. The PRR did paint several cars in the UP scheme for Overland service. Among them were several 10/6s and 21 rmts. One of the 21 rmts was named BEDFORD INN. The PRR never painted any of the FALLS series of 6 br-lounges in UP colors. Furthermore they were all "tree" FALLS cars: PINE FALLS, SPRUCE FALLS, ASPEN FALLS,etc. There never was a BEDFORD FALLS! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ndbprr@att.net wrote: > The PRR was one of the proponents of cross country > travel in one car. As such they were very willing to > repaint some equipment for other railroads who would > participate in adding the PRR car to their consists at > transfer points in ST. Louis and Chicago primarily. I > believe the car painted for UP was the Bedford Falls and > would have been part of the Falls class of cars. Among > the others was a car for the Zephyr, a couple of Mopac > cars for the eagles, Texas Special cars(s), the UP > overland and Santa Fe two tone gray cars and a couple > lettered for ACL or SCL. Yes there is a prototype for a > UP painted car with PRR in the corners. Was the > configuration correct? I don't know. > > A duplex sleeper in UP colors with a PRR signboard > > recently was auctioned on E-bay as Item # 1699103810. > > It didn't look familiar, and I was wondering if anyone > > knew if this was a legitimate PRR class. If so, what > > is the the class, the manufacturer, and the names of > > cars in the class? > > > > The picture on E-bay shows what appear to be a > > vestibule, 4 duplex windows, 4 bedroom windows and 4 > > more duplex windows. Any information would be > > appreciated. > > > > GDC > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:29:49 -0600 From: "Colm Chomicky" Subject: Re: [PRR] Research Material Question It would seem to be a lot of work photocopying the article and sorting into ring binders. Plus, unless you are copying two-sided and only retaining the articles you want, I am not sure on how much space savings is gained (maybe a lot if the advertizing etc. is not retained). In the past I have filed quite a bit of material from periodicals and kept a computerized list of articles of interest. I write out an abbrievated title and various keywords. This can be a in a word processing, a spreedsheet, or a database program depending on user preference. When I need to retrieve an article about some subject, I then do a keyword search using one or more queries. Seems to fit my needs. This system works if you just file the mags in a box by date, or if you decide to split them apart into notebooks or subject files. If you file mags in a box add mag title and date with key words to computer, if you file in notebooks include location of article with keywords. Guess you could scan your articles using same index system, burn to CD (but that seems like a lot of work). On 2/11/02 3:08 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > I have a question for the list. > > I am running out of space (read wife is complaining about the amount of > space I'm using) for all the train magazines that come to my house. I have > tried 2 ways to keep it under control and still be able to quickly retrieve > Pennsy info. > > 1)Store all the magazines in boxes and keep a list of the articles. > > 2)Photo copy the article and store by article type in a three ring binder. > > The second allows easier retrieval and takes up less space but since I don't > copy in color I lose that aspect in RMC and MR articles. The problem with > the first is that among all my Hobby magazines I fill up more than one > magazine box a year! > > Any use any other ideas. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:28:37 -0500 From: Godfrey Hall Subject: Re: [PRR] Research Material Question As each book comes in each month, scan it into your computer then take it off onto a "phloppy". Now you have a new book to sell to a friend! - Godfrey Hall "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > I have a question for the list. > > I am running out of space (read wife is complaining about the amount of > space I'm using) for all the train magazines that come to my house. I have > tried 2 ways to keep it under control and still be able to quickly retrieve > Pennsy info. > > 1)Store all the magazines in boxes and keep a list of the articles. > > 2)Photo copy the article and store by article type in a three ring binder. > > The second allows easier retrieval and takes up less space but since I don't > copy in color I lose that aspect in RMC and MR articles. The problem with > the first is that among all my Hobby magazines I fill up more than one > magazine box a year! > > Any use any other ideas. > > Chris Chany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Research Material Question Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:12:00 -0600 Hi! I will be honest with all youz guyz. I have Model Railroader from ? 1948 through latest, and Railroad Model Craftsman from ? 1950 through latest. Also, many many Mainline Modeler and Model Railroading. Not to mention the PRRTHS Keystones, PC Railroader, Rails NorthEast. They take up 17 boxes - the kind computer paper comes in. Each box holds 6 or more years of magazines. My wife lets me have a "RR" room. One of these days I will build a model rr. But I will have to figure out what to do with all these magazines, first! :) :) I guess I am lucky with my wife! My index is indeed on Excel, as a .xls file. Because I am a Pennsy modeler, the index is limited to PRR; and modeling techniques. Even though I have this index, it is hopelessly incomplete. I still have to search for hours to find some things. Others take minutes, even seconds. You go figure! Sorry I can't help with how to condense the collection! Ha! :) Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:56:41 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Rail depth vs. rail weight vs. scale size >From time to time the question "Is Code X appropriate for Y pound rail in R scale?" comes up. I looked up the depth of each of several rail sections in a Carnegie Pocket Companion (Copyright 1934 by Carnegie Steel Co. and Illinois Steel Co.) I omitted all the rail sections of 60 or less lb/yd. Note: Drop the last two digits of the section number. The remaining digits are the nominal weight in pounds per yard. Series Section Depth code size for: number (inches) N HO S O ASCE 10040 5 3/4 36 66 90 120 ASCE 9040 5 3/8 34 62 84 112 ASCE 8540 5 3/16 32 60 81 108 ASCE 8040 5 31 57 78 104 ASCE 7540 4 13/16 30 55 75 100 ASCE 7040 4 5/8 29 53 72 96 ASCE 6540 4 7/16 28 51 69 92 ARA B 10030 5 5/8 35 65 88 117 ARA B 9030 5 1/4 33 60 82 109 ARA B 8030 4 13/16 30 55 75 100 ARA B 7030 4 9/16 29 52 71 95 ARA A 10020 6 38 69 94 125 ARA A 9020 5 5/8 35 65 88 117 ARA A 8020 5 1/8 32 59 80 107 AREA 13025 6 3/4 42 77 105 141 AREA 11025 6 1/4 39 72 98 130 AREA 10025 6 38 69 94 125 MISC 15222 8 50 92 125 167 MISC 13122 7 1/8 45 82 111 148 MISC 13031 6 5/8 41 76 104 138 MISC 12722 7 44 80 109 146 MISC 11523 6 1/2 41 75 102 135 MISC 11522 6 1/2 41 75 102 135 MISC 11036 6 1/2 41 75 102 135 MISC 10524 6 38 69 94 125 MISC 10035 5 11/16 36 65 89 118 MISC 10032 5 5/8 35 65 88 117 MISC 10031 5 11/16 36 65 89 118 MISC 9035 5 9/16 35 64 87 116 MISC 9024 5 3/8 34 62 84 112 ASCE = American Society of Civil Engineers AREA = American Railway Engineering Association Hope that someone finds this useful. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Zak" Subject: Re: [PRR] Research Material Question Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 05:33:50 -0500 Chris, one idea that comes to mind is that - since you obviously use a computer - you buy a scanner and scan either the items you refer to most, or the whole issue, right onto your hard drive. That way you'd still retain the color images you need. The problem there is that you would eat up a lot of space on the hard drive of your 'puter. Then you could go with Walt's suggestion of cutting the magazines and putting them into ringed binders. I personally favor Jerry's solution. As I am a computer nut, I know of at least one magazine (Linux Journal) which has archived their issues onto CDs and has sold them - to me, at least. ;-) The problem with this idea is that you'd have to wait until the end of the year before the CD would be available. Perhaps if MR and RMC were to allow subscriptions to an on-line version of the magazines, which had the full content of the "hard copy" subscription.... Another idea might be to buy a subscription for MR and RMC for your local library. Then each month you could go to read each issue, and then if it is of particular interist to you, buy it. Just some thoughts. Zak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 3:08 PM Subject: [PRR] Research Material Question > I have a question for the list. > > I am running out of space..(material deleted) > Any use any other ideas. > > Chris Chany _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 06:28:00 -0500 Subject: [PRR] "The Rockville Limited" From: Jerry Britton SATURDAY, APRIL 13, 2002 THE ROCKVILLE LIMITED A Special Train Sponsored by the Harrisburg Chapter, National Railway Historical Society, to Celebrate the Centennial of the Rockville Bridge The Harrisburg Chapter, National Railway Historical Society is sponsoring a chartered train excursion to recognize the 100th anniversary of the completion of the world-famous Rockville Bridge. The trip will leave the Harrisburg Transportation Center (Amtrak station) at 7:30 am on April 13, 2002 and return at approximately 3:00 pm. The train's route goes east from Harrisburg through scenic Lancaster County farmland and continues to downtown Philadelphia, where the train will enter Amtrak's high speed Northeast Corridor toward Wilmington, DE. After a swift run down the Corridor to Perryville, MD, we will turn north onto Norfolk Southern freight-only trackage and travel along the banks of the Susquehanna River through several tunnels and the Borough of Columbia. North of there, the train will cross the Susquehanna for the first time on Shocks Mill Bridge, entering York County. We will proceed on the west bank of the river and pass through Enola Yard, where we can observe the recently-reconstructed hump yard. The highlight of the trip will come near the end as the chartered train crosses the Susquehanna River a second time, this crossing on the renowned Rockville Bridge, before a quick return to the station in Harrisburg. Other special features of this excursion include the use of a pair of beautifully-restored E8 locomotives owned by the Juniata Terminal Company and wearing new paint in their original Pennsylvania Railroad scheme. Numbers 5711 and 5809 were built in the 1950's for the Pennsylvania Railroad and also were used to power Conrail's executive train. There will be coach seating available for $85 per seat, which includes a box lunch and beverage. In addition, there will be 48 first-class seats offered on two privately-owned, restored business cars at $250 per seat (*). First class service will include a meal served in grand railroad tradition on linens and china. As an added attraction, it is planned to sell commemorative T-shirts and other souvenir items noting this memorable occasion on the train. Parking is available near the Harrisburg Station on nearby streets (no meters on weekend) or in the Chestnut St. Parking Garage, Fourth and Chestnut Sts. (across Fourth St. from the station ). Tickets for the train may be ordered from: Harrisburg Chapter NRHS, Ticket Agent, 637 Walnut Street, Harrisburg, PA 17101-1924 Checks must accompany an order and are to be made payable to "Harrisburg Chapter NRHS." Please include a stamped, self-addressed envelope for mailing of your tickets. There are no refunds given on purchased tickets. The trip will run regardless of weather. The answering machine for the chapter may be called at 717-232-6221. Information requests made to that number will be answered as soon as possible. There is no smoking permitted anywhere on the train, and no alcoholic beverages are permitted. Responsibility: all tickets must be purchased in advance and are limited to capacity of available equipment. Buy tickets early to ensure adequate accommodations. The Harrisburg Chapter NRHS gives notice that in the conduct of this excursion, all arrangements are made by it solely as agent for the tourist, and as such, holds itself free of all responsibility for any loss, injury or damage to the persons or property of the tourist arising from any cause whatsoever. * Bennett Levin has indicated to me that while the #120 PENNSYLVANIA will indeed be on the rear of the train, it is reserved for Norfolk Southern entertainment. Sorry! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:56:00 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] "The Rockville Limited" The word is "hospitality" not entertainment! Bennett Jerry Britton wrote: > > SATURDAY, APRIL 13, 2002 > THE ROCKVILLE LIMITED > A Special Train Sponsored by the Harrisburg Chapter, > National Railway Historical Society, to Celebrate the Centennial of the > Rockville Bridge > > The Harrisburg Chapter, National Railway Historical Society is > sponsoring a chartered train excursion to recognize the 100th anniversary of > the completion of the world-famous Rockville Bridge. The trip will leave > the Harrisburg Transportation Center (Amtrak station) at 7:30 am on April > 13, 2002 and return at approximately 3:00 pm. The train's route goes east > from Harrisburg through scenic Lancaster County farmland and continues to > downtown Philadelphia, where the train will enter Amtrak's high speed > Northeast Corridor toward Wilmington, DE. After a swift run down the > Corridor to Perryville, MD, we will turn north onto Norfolk Southern > freight-only trackage and travel along the banks of the Susquehanna River > through several tunnels and the Borough of Columbia. North of there, the > train will cross the Susquehanna for the first time on Shocks Mill Bridge, > entering York County. We will proceed on the west bank of the river and > pass through Enola Yard, where we can observe the recently-reconstructed > hump yard. The highlight of the trip will come near the end as the > chartered train crosses the Susquehanna River a second time, this crossing > on the renowned Rockville Bridge, before a quick return to the station in > Harrisburg. > > Other special features of this excursion include the use of a pair of > beautifully-restored E8 locomotives owned by the Juniata Terminal Company > and wearing new paint in their original Pennsylvania Railroad scheme. > Numbers 5711 and 5809 were built in the 1950's for the Pennsylvania > Railroad and also were used to power Conrail's executive train. There will > be coach seating available for $85 per seat, which includes a box lunch and > beverage. In addition, there will be 48 first-class seats offered on two > privately-owned, restored business cars at $250 per seat (*). First class > service will include a meal served in grand railroad tradition on linens and > china. As an added attraction, it is planned to sell commemorative T-shirts > and other souvenir items noting this memorable occasion on the train. > > Parking is available near the Harrisburg Station on nearby > streets (no meters on weekend) or in the Chestnut St. Parking Garage, Fourth > and Chestnut Sts. (across Fourth St. from the station ). Tickets for the > train may be ordered from: > > Harrisburg Chapter NRHS, Ticket Agent, 637 Walnut Street, Harrisburg, PA > 17101-1924 > > Checks must accompany an order and are to be made payable to "Harrisburg > Chapter NRHS." Please include a stamped, self-addressed envelope for > mailing of your tickets. There are no refunds given on purchased tickets. > The trip will run regardless of weather. The answering machine for the > chapter may be called at 717-232-6221. Information requests made to that > number will be answered as soon as possible. There is no smoking permitted > anywhere on the train, and no alcoholic beverages are permitted. > > Responsibility: all tickets must be purchased in advance and are limited to > capacity of available equipment. Buy tickets early to ensure adequate > accommodations. The Harrisburg Chapter NRHS gives notice that in the > conduct of this excursion, all arrangements are made by it solely as agent > for the tourist, and as such, holds itself free of all responsibility for > any loss, injury or damage to the persons or property of the tourist arising > from any cause whatsoever. > > * Bennett Levin has indicated to me that while the #120 PENNSYLVANIA will > indeed be on the rear of the train, it is reserved for Norfolk Southern > entertainment. Sorry! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Research Material Question Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:09:14 +0000 I had MR all the way back to the early 40's and I finally got tired of lugging and caring for all that paper. I gave mine to an area RR museum and didn't copy much of anything for the following reasons: 1. Most if not all of the drawings are wrong in some manner 2. Most of the techniques are outdated such as how to make signal circuits using relays 3. Most of the equipment praised even in to the 80's won't standup to todays standards 4. As much as I would like to think that some day I will wake up and become a master modler when it comes to scratch building the reality is I wouldn't build much of the stuff I have in my head now 5. I am trying to simplify my lifestyle and what is really important to me. Now I have about a dozen file folders regarding the PRR in a file cabinet and I keep stuff that I view as important and chuck the rest. It is still hard to do after 30 years of squirelling stuff away but it sure feels good when it is gone. > Hi! > > I will be honest with all youz guyz. I have Model Railroader from ? 1948 > through latest, and Railroad Model Craftsman from ? 1950 through latest. > Also, many many Mainline Modeler and Model Railroading. Not to mention the > PRRTHS Keystones, PC Railroader, Rails NorthEast. They take up 17 boxes - > the kind computer paper comes in. Each box holds 6 or more years of > magazines. My wife lets me have a "RR" room. One of these days I will > build a model rr. But I will have to figure out what to do with all these > magazines, first! :) :) I guess I am lucky with my wife! > > My index is indeed on Excel, as a .xls file. Because I am a Pennsy modeler, > the index is limited to PRR; and modeling techniques. Even though I have > this index, it is hopelessly incomplete. I still have to search for hours > to find some things. Others take minutes, even seconds. You go figure! > > Sorry I can't help with how to condense the collection! Ha! :) > > Morgan Bilbo > Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS #1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:07:54 -0500 Subject: [PRR] OP Session this weekend on the Cornwall Jerry and fellow listers, The Cornwall Railroad is going to have it's second op session this weekend 2/16/2002 at 1:30 PM. So far, I have 8 crew members signed up for the session and I could use two more. The layout is on Jerry's site at kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/kulp/index.html The pictures are very dated but the overhead view gives a pretty good idea on the layout design. I use Digitrax DCC as my control system and I am using Bruce Chubb's C/MRI to control my signaling system. The Operations are performed by car cards and traffic is controlled by a trained professional, a real NS dispatcher. We use Radio Shack radios model 1830 between the crews and the dispatcher and he controls all train movements. I have approximately 14 trains on the schedule and there are light engine moves, turns, locals, and road jobs. Our first session was in December and everyone had a great time. We usually stop at the Pizza shop in Shermans Dale (Dutch treat)after the session for a critique and to hash out any comments or possible improvements. I provide some snacks and sodas or coffee during the session. If you are interested, please contact me via email before Thursday evening. The layout is located in Shermans Dale, Pa. Approximately 15 miles West of Rockville Bridge. I ask that you bring a Digitrax throttle if you have one and a radio. I have a few extras but not enough for the entire crew. I will send out the list of assigned crew members by Friday. Please do not just drop in if you have been at my home since there are limited positions available. Extra personnel will cause overcrowding. I welcome anyone interested in operating, regardless of scale. Operations work the same way regardless of the size of the equipment. I have two N-Trak crewmen that had a ball the last session. My sessions are held the third Saturday of the month and usually last between 3-4 hours. This session will be the last one until after the PRRT&HS convention in May at Camp Hill. I am on the layout tour for Friday night. Regards, Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:00:06 -0500 Subject: [PRR] William Rau Exhibit From: Jerry Britton "Traveling the Pennsylvania Railroad: The Photographs of William H. Rau" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ In the 1890s Philadelphia's preeminent photographer, William H. Rau (1855-1920), was commissioned by the Pennsylvania Railroad to take hundreds of photographs along its routes in order to promote travel on the railway to the general public. Known as "the standard railroad of the world," the PRR was the largest rail system in the East and linked metropolitan New York and Philadelphia to Pittsburgh and such industrial cities of the Midwest as Chicago and St. Louis. Using a mammoth view camera, Rau produced a spectacular series of images for the railroad's promotional use. More than 450 of the original photographs, owned by American Premier Underwriters, Inc., the successor firm to the Pennsylvania Railroad, are on deposit at the Library Company. The significance of these magnificent photographs owes much to their large size - Rau made the albumen prints by direct contact and exposure of the 18-by-22-inch glass negatives rather than by enlargement from smaller negatives. The result of this technique is a collection of photographs of remarkable depth, character, and detail. The exhibition will feature highlights of the collection, many of which were displayed at the PRR's pavilion at the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago in 1893, shown in hotel lobbies and department stores, and reproduced in various PRR publications. Because these remarkably detailed and texturally rich photographs were intended to show the railroad in the most favorable light, they display a harmony between the railroad and the natural and industrial landscapes through which the line passed. The collection includes striking views not just of railcars, tracks, and stations, but also of cities and towns, bridges, ferry boats, rivers, islands, canals, factories, residences, and hotels, mostly in Pennsylvania, but with some views also of New York, New Jersey, and Maryland. "Traveling the Pennsylvania Railroad: The Photographs of William H. Rau" gives this collection the attention and recognition it deserves. The introductory section provides background about Rau and his photographic career, including portraits of Rau and his family, writings from his various foreign photographic expeditions, and examples from the Library Company's collections of Rau's other photographic work. A smaller exhibition highlighting other railroad resources and materials available at the Library Company accompanies "Traveling the Pennsylvania Railroad." Among the subjects depicted in the photographs are trains (the Pennsylvania Limited on Horseshoe Curve), numerous stations in major cities (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh) and small towns, industrial facilities (Westinghouse Air-brake Works, Edgar Thomson Steel Works, Calumet Coke Ovens), town views (Mauch Chunk, Johnstown, New York City, Manayunk), transportation facilities (piers, ferryboats, canals, inclined planes), agriculture (tobacco fields), natural wonders (Delaware Water Gap), tourist attractions (Gettysburg battlefield, the beach at Atlantic City), hotels (Bryn Mawr Hotel, the Mountain House in Cresson), and of course the railroad's infrastructure (switch-towers, semaphores, tunnels, watch boxes, railyards, etc.). A companion volume, edited by John C. Van Horne with Eileen E. Drelick, has been published by the University of Pennsylvania Press in cooperation with the Library Company. The book includes introductory essays by several scholars and reproduces 87 of Rau's photographs as full-page four-color illustrations with captions. The exhibition will be open to the public free of charge Monday through Friday from 9 a.m. to 4:45 p.m. This exhibition and its related programs have been generously supported by the Independence Foundation, American Premier Underwriters, Inc., the Louise Lux-Sions Exhibition Endowment Fund, The Pew Charitable Trusts, and the Philadelphia Cultural Fund. The address is 1314 Locust Street, Philadelphia PA 19107. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] Spectrum 0-6-0 saddle tank... Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:37:42 -0500 Hi all, Is the 0-6-0 saddle tank steam engine that Bachman/Spectrum recently released correct for the Pennsy? They painted it as a B8, #2790 which is at least the right type of loco but how close is it actually to a B8? Thanks! Rob http://prr.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:51:30 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] William Rau Exhibit --- Jerry Britton wrote: > "Traveling the Pennsylvania Railroad: The > Photographs of William H. Rau" > More than > 450 of the original photographs, owned by American > Premier Underwriters, > Inc., the successor firm to the Pennsylvania > Railroad, are on deposit at the > Library Company. What is "the Library Company"? > The exhibition will be open to the public free of > charge Monday through > Friday from 9 a.m. to 4:45 p.m. Which Monday? Which Friday? Did I miss something? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:55:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] William Rau Exhibit -- 3/11-9/20 From: Jerry Britton On 2/12/02 12:51 PM, robert netzlof (wb3iqe@rocketmail.com) wrote: >> "Traveling the Pennsylvania Railroad: The >> Photographs of William H. Rau" > >> More than >> 450 of the original photographs, owned by American >> Premier Underwriters, >> Inc., the successor firm to the Pennsylvania >> Railroad, are on deposit at the >> Library Company. > > What is "the Library Company"? Got me! > > > >> The exhibition will be open to the public free of >> charge Monday through >> Friday from 9 a.m. to 4:45 p.m. > > Which Monday? Which Friday? > > > > Did I miss something? > IO started to type in the info, then found the same press release on their web site, so I copied and pasted. Ooops...seems the online version did not include the dates...March 11-Sept.20. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] AMB #1701 4140 or 4129? Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:04:10 -0500 Help! My reference material is at home. AMB lists their PRR 10-6 Rapids sleeper sides as Plan 4129 on their web site. The packaging shows it as Plan 4140. I called AMB and the person that would know was not there. They "think" the packaging "should" be correct. Anybody know which one is correct? Thank you for your interest in D & S HOBBIES. Dennis mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com Featuring over 10,000 IN-STOCK model railroad items 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:58:33 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Freight Car Lettering Schemes From: Jerry Britton About a year and a half ago, I created a web page on "Keystone Crossings" that listed the various lettering schemes used in freight service by the PRR. Following posting, there was much discussion of errors, but no concensus among many of the comments. I have just rewritten the page based on the article that ran in The Keystone in 1988. It covers 10 lettering schemes over almost a hundred years. Please take a look and feel free to comment. http://kc.pennsyrr.com/freightops/schemes.html ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:13:03 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] William Rau Exhibit --part1_a9.22c6ddee.299ab52f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry, Wouldn't Mr. Rau's work be neat in book form?. Especially due to their clarity and detail. Photographs by other nineteenth century photographers hired by the railroads have been done in book form. A book(s) of Mr. Rau's work would go nicely beside books of other railroad photographers such as McClure, Buckwalter, Jackson, etc.. Just a thought. Evan --part1_a9.22c6ddee.299ab52f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry,

 Wouldn't Mr. Rau's work be neat in book form?.  Especially due to their clarity and detail.  Photographs by other nineteenth century photographers hired by the railroads have been done in book form. A book(s) of Mr. Rau's work would go nicely beside books of other railroad photographers such as McClure, Buckwalter, Jackson, etc..

 Just a thought.

Evan                                                                                                                                                                      & --part1_a9.22c6ddee.299ab52f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:29:10 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] William Rau Exhibit The University of Pennsylvania is just about to release a spectacular book of the Rau PRR Photographs. Bennett RDG2124@aol.com wrote: > > Jerry, > > Wouldn't Mr. Rau's work be neat in book form?. Especially due to their clarity and detail. Photographs by other nineteenth century photographers hired by the railroads have been done in book form. A book(s) of Mr. Rau's work would go nicely beside books of other railroad photographers such as McClure, Buckwalter, Jackson, etc.. > > Just a thought. > > Evan & ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:32:29 -0600 From: "Colm Chomicky" Subject: Re: [PRR] William Rau Exhibit For more info. Riding the Pennsylvania Railroad Photographs of William H. Rau John C. Van Horne, Editor. With Eileen E. Drelick 264 pages Available from University of Pennsylvania Press $49.95 http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/13554.html >>> 02/12/02 12:13PM >>> Jerry, Wouldn't Mr. Rau's work be neat in book form?. Especially due to their clarity and detail. Photographs by other nineteenth century photographers hired by the railroads have been done in book form. A book(s) of Mr. Rau's work would go nicely beside books of other railroad photographers such as McClure, Buckwalter, Jackson, etc.. Just a thought. Evan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:44:57 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] AMB #1701 4140 or 4129? Dennis, You can tell from the spacing of the bedroom windows. The 4129s had three evenly spaced pairs of br windows. The 4140s had the alternating crosswise-lenghthwise br's and therefore the three pairs of br windows were unevenly spaced. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" wrote: > Help! > > My reference material is at home. > > AMB lists their PRR 10-6 Rapids sleeper sides as Plan 4129 on their web > site. The packaging shows it as Plan 4140. I called AMB and the person > that would know was not there. They "think" the packaging "should" be > correct. > > Anybody know which one is correct? > > Thank you for your interest in D & S HOBBIES. > > Dennis > mailto: dennis@onerrave.com > > D & S HOBBIES > http://www.onerrave.com Featuring over 10,000 IN-STOCK model > railroad items > 34 Main Street > South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:46:30 EST Subject: [PRR] Tuscan --part1_cc.66f35be.299abd06_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PRR List, Are there any model paints that match the colors used on the two-tone "fleet of modernization" passenger scheme. Vol. 3 of the Sunrise book on the PRR refers to the window band as "dark" Tuscan but it looks like maroon to me. Also, did the shade of the commonly used Tuscan red vary over the years? Color photos are hard to judge color by but shots taken at Altoona appear to vary in the intensity of this color. Any one model paint favored over the rest by the SPF modelers?? Many thanks in advance, Evan Leisey --part1_cc.66f35be.299abd06_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PRR List,

 Are there any model paints that match the colors used on the two-tone "fleet of modernization" passenger scheme.  Vol. 3 of the Sunrise book on the PRR refers to the window band as "dark" Tuscan but it looks like maroon to me.  

 Also, did the shade of the commonly used Tuscan red vary over the years?  Color photos are hard to judge color by but shots taken at Altoona appear to vary in the intensity of this color.  Any one model paint favored over the rest by the SPF modelers??

Many thanks in advance,

Evan Leisey --part1_cc.66f35be.299abd06_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:59:25 -0600 From: "Colm Chomicky" Subject: Re: [PRR] William Rau Exhibit Out of curiosity, I did a quick search and see are some William Rau photos online. Go to http://lcweb2.loc.gov/pp/mdbquery.html and enter William Rau as search term. Should get about +120 photos. Some of these railroad scenes. Others industrial panaramas such as Bethlehem Steel Works, Some clickable for higher resolution viewing and also some available for download large tiff. file format. Not to say that there is not more viewing out there online somewhere. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:24:25 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Spectrum 0-6-0 saddle tank Rob, The B8 had a Belpaire under that saddle tank. The Bachmann version is a radial stay boiler. In "olden" days we would break out the squadren green putty and create a Belpaire but with todays high standards and even higher cost (the same loco in the 1970's could be bought for about $10.00 but you also got what you paid for) we will wait patiently until someone actually makes a non-brass version for a reasonable price. Right now I am anxiously waiting for the Broadyway Limited's DCC plus Sound NYC J1 Hudson. When that one is released they will be working on a PRR M1. Just think, Sound, DCC, and a beautifully detailed M1a for less than $300. I'll sign up for that release !! Regards, Nick Kulp From: "Rob Schoenberg" Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:37:42 -0500 Hi all, Is the 0-6-0 saddle tank steam engine that Bachman/Spectrum recently released correct for the Pennsy? They painted it as a B8, #2790 which is at least the right type of loco but how close is it actually to a B8? Thanks! Rob http://prr.railfan.net http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:27:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Spectrum 0-6-0 saddle tank From: Jerry Britton On 2/12/02 2:24 PM, Nick Kulp (caseyj@igateway.com) wrote: > Right now I am anxiously waiting for the Broadyway Limited's DCC plus Sound > NYC J1 Hudson. When that one is released they will be working on a PRR M1. > Just > think, Sound, DCC, and a beautifully detailed M1a for less than $300. I'll > sign > up for that release !! > Actually, a T1 will preceed the M1, according to dealer info I have received. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:55:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Tuscan In a message dated 2/12/02 1:58:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, RDG2124@aol.com writes: << Also, did the shade of the commonly used Tuscan red vary over the years? >> "Tuscan" and other freight car colors varied batch to batch and day to day in the prewar period, before "artificial" colorations. Paints were sold as solvent and color - seperate, and mixed just before use. The cost of the paint varied by the color - those made from clays or soils (browns and reds) were the least expensive - hence freight cars were red, brown or red/brown. Remember where the name "Tuscan" came from - it's the color of the soil in the Tuscany region of Italy (Up around Florence, the dirt must be redder - ie Florentine Red) I doubt the RR or thepaint companies imported clay from Italy, the paint color must have varied by where they did buy it - and day to day - depending on who, where and how mixed - and since the process was not precise - the variations only accelerated as they got out into the sun ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:04:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Spectrum 0-6-0 saddle tank Rob, Nick, Yeah, that saddle tank 0-6-0 that was just released if far from eing a Pennsy loco. I really have no idea who's road it is actually modeled from, if it even does have a prototype. I seen pre-release photos of it awhile back and could see right then it wasn't a Pennsy loco. NJ Custom Brass released a sort of reasonably priced PRR B8a Shop Switcher 20 years ago. They can still be had for under $200.00 if you look a round a little. Stay away from the big brass dealers though as they think they have the only one ever made, $$$... I have 2 and paid (within the last 3 years) 160.00, I call that one "Limpy" and 185.00... If you can afford one, didn't Key Imports release one too? Lotta money for a loco that sits in a Roundhouse setting...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:21:57 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] T1 Hey list: I have always been told that the PRR retiered the T1 around 1950. But, on the steam roster from 1954 (which I copied at the RR museum of Pennsylvania last summer) 7 T1's and 1 T1a are listed. Middle Division: 5543 T1 5545 T1 5547 T1a 5549 T1 Pittsburgh Division 5542 T1 5544 T1 5546 T1 5548 T1 So, if they had been retiered, why were these still on the roster? Regards, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:23:39 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Huge Train on Former Northern Central Branch From: Jerry Britton Last evening I was in Emigsville (Pa.), a little town just north of York. This town lies on the former PRR Northern Central Branch. Coming north out of York, the line runs uphill to Mt. Wolf, then downhill to Wago Junction. At Wago it comes known as the York Haven Line and follows the river to Enola Yard, some 20 miles up stream. Activity on this line was once 100 trains a day. Now it is usually only 2-3 per day. But at 4 p.m. yesterday I heard a whistle that just plain sounded different. I looked up and was quite surprised to see five units heading a northbound upgrade. They were really struggling and were probably only doing about 10 mph. Behind them was a string of hoppers. I went into the Emigsville post office, waited in line to ship, and when I came outside the train was still filing past! I got on North George Street and headed north, towards York Haven. At one location I could see down into the hoppers to note that they were empty. So why were five units struggling with empty hoppers? Well, it took well over a mile until I reached the head end again...and I never did see the tail end. There must have been 125+ cars on that train! But where did they all come from? A big coal user is the paper plant at Spring Grove. But I really doubt they take that many cars at one time. A power plant, maybe, but not a paper plant. Perhaps empties accumulated at York Yard and they just decided to grab them all in one batch for the 30 mile trip to Enola. Only other possibilities I can think of would be either a train coming off of the ex-Frederick Branch (which I don't even think is in use straight through) or something coming up the former Western Maryland line. Any ideas? P.S. Of all days I pick to not have my digital camera with me! Trains on this line usually have only two units. Long trains put both up front; smaller transfers put a unit at each end. But five units! ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:26:04 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Altoona/Logan Valley Electric Railway Hi, this railway provided streetcar service around Altoona until August 7, 1954. Did they came neer the Altoona station, shops or the Pennsy tracks? Regards, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Spectrum 0-6-0 saddle tank Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:52:38 -0500 On this discussion of the Bachman "B-6" Why not take some squadron green putty and make a belpaire firebox? If it looks good to you, RUN it. It doesn't have to be "brass quality" to be an acceptable model to run on your own layout. It gets very boring listening to the rivet counters saying what should or shouldn't be done by modelers based on the quality of very high priced models. Where would this hobby be if nothing were every attempted by the average modelers if the results didn't look 100% scale. Not every model is destined for the scale contest. Lets loosen up and be kind and encouraging to those who want to build a B6 out of a radial stayed Bman boiler!!! Help these people and encourage them to add the putty to the boiler. OK! You got the program? Good. Lew Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:20:44 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Geoffrey asks: >I have always been told that the PRR retiered the T1 >around 1950. >But, on the steam roster from 1954 (which I copied at >the RR museum of Pennsylvania last summer) 7 T1's and >So, if they had been retiered, why were these still on >the roster? Because they weren't scrapped yet! Actually, they were still holding down backup or reserve assignments "protecting" some trains. Most likely these last few were dropped as more diseasels came onto the property. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Spectrum 0-6-0 saddle tank Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:59:14 -0500 Rob, Nick, and Gary, The Bachmann 0-6-0T is an ALCo product that was built for some little known short line that appreared in a mid-1920's Locomotive Cyclopedia. The firm in Knoxville, TN, that is selling the reprints of Parts of old Cyclopedias had one featured on eBay recently for the mid-1920's. I looked at their photos to see what motive power was in the book being offered and, lo and behold, the Bachmann (and N scale Life-Like) 0-6-0T was there! I did not recognize the name of the railroad. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Cc: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Spectrum 0-6-0 saddle tank > Rob, Nick, > > Yeah, that saddle tank 0-6-0 that was just released if far from eing > a Pennsy loco. I really have no idea who's road it is actually modeled > from, if it even does have a prototype. I seen pre-release photos of it > awhile back and could see right then it wasn't a Pennsy loco. > NJ Custom Brass released a sort of reasonably priced PRR B8a Shop > Switcher 20 years ago. They can still be had for under $200.00 if you > look a round a little. Stay away from the big brass dealers though as > they think they have the only one ever made, $$$... I have 2 and paid > (within the last 3 years) 160.00, I call that one "Limpy" and 185.00... > If you can afford one, didn't Key Imports release one too? Lotta money > for a loco that sits in a Roundhouse setting...Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:38:27 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona/Logan Valley Electric Railway Geoffrey, As for the shops, they stopped right infront of the Juniata Shops. If you watch the film at the Museum in Altoona, there is a couple of shots of the streetcars at the shops. As for the station, the tracks ran down one of the main streets (11th or 12th) which would be just behind the station. Drew (but didn't grow up in Altoona) McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 12:26 PM 02/12/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, >this railway provided streetcar service around Altoona >until August 7, 1954. >Did they came neer the Altoona station, shops or the >Pennsy tracks? > >Regards, >Geoffrey ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Scott Charlesworth" Subject: Re: [PRR] Huge Train on Former Northern Central Branch Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:09:54 -0500 Jerry, That was a 509 hopper train. 510 is the loaded counterpart. I believe the old Conrail symbol was UPS-xxx. NS's schedules say destination York, PA. Doesn't specify a power plant or the paper plant. I saw this train go by when I arrived home yesterday. The 2 lead units are the normal York power. The other 3 were probably the power that brought the train in. They might have put the York power on so the crew had a ride back to York, or there were cars to pick up at Enola... Maybe someone else can enlighten us on the true destination of those trains... Scott C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Cc: "Conrail-Talk LIST" Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:23 PM Subject: [PRR] Huge Train on Former Northern Central Branch > Last evening I was in Emigsville (Pa.), a little town just north of York. > This town lies on the former PRR Northern Central Branch. Coming north out > of York, the line runs uphill to Mt. Wolf, then downhill to Wago Junction. > At Wago it comes known as the York Haven Line and follows the river to Enola > Yard, some 20 miles up stream. > > Activity on this line was once 100 trains a day. Now it is usually only 2-3 > per day. > > But at 4 p.m. yesterday I heard a whistle that just plain sounded different. > I looked up and was quite surprised to see five units heading a northbound > upgrade. They were really struggling and were probably only doing about 10 > mph. Behind them was a string of hoppers. > > I went into the Emigsville post office, waited in line to ship, and when I > came outside the train was still filing past! > > I got on North George Street and headed north, towards York Haven. At one > location I could see down into the hoppers to note that they were empty. So > why were five units struggling with empty hoppers? > > Well, it took well over a mile until I reached the head end again...and I > never did see the tail end. There must have been 125+ cars on that train! > > But where did they all come from? > > A big coal user is the paper plant at Spring Grove. But I really doubt they > take that many cars at one time. A power plant, maybe, but not a paper > plant. Perhaps empties accumulated at York Yard and they just decided to > grab them all in one batch for the 30 mile trip to Enola. > > Only other possibilities I can think of would be either a train coming off > of the ex-Frederick Branch (which I don't even think is in use straight > through) or something coming up the former Western Maryland line. > > Any ideas? > > P.S. Of all days I pick to not have my digital camera with me! Trains on > this line usually have only two units. Long trains put both up front; > smaller transfers put a unit at each end. But five units! ;-) > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael J. Albanese" Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona/Logan Valley Electric Railway Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:42:58 -0500 > Did they came neer the Altoona station, shops or the > Pennsy tracks? As Drew said, the tracks ran along the main avenues downtown, where the old PRR station was located. The Logan Valley probably did the bulk of its business carrying railroad workers to and from the various shops. You could get to nearly all of them by trolley -- even to South Altoona and East Altoona. At its peak, the line stretched the whole way from Hollidaysburg to Bellwood and Tyrone, so you could have travelled to those shops and yards, as well. The Altoona-Tyrone segment of the line was adjacent to the Pennsy tracks for much of the distance. About the only shop workers I can think of that would have had difficulty getting to work using the trolley would be those in the westbound car repair shops, up on the bluff above East Altoona roundhouse near old WJ Yard. Those folks probably had to hike through some soot :-) Mike (Altoona) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Lionel G scale E6s Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:44:39 +0000 How accurate is this engine? I know I would have to get one used from E bay and from what I understand it has a weak motor that would probably need replacing. Anything else I should be aware of? Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Spectrum 0-6-0 saddle tank Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:49:00 -0500 Nick: Did I understand that you're going to buy the NYC Hudson? Not as pretty as a Belpair boiler, no Keystone and no charisma. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Kulp To: PRR-Talk Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 2:24 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: Spectrum 0-6-0 saddle tank > Rob, > > The B8 had a Belpaire under that saddle tank. The Bachmann version is a radial > stay boiler. In "olden" days we would break out the squadren green putty and > create a Belpaire but with todays high standards and even higher cost (the same > loco in the 1970's could be bought for about $10.00 but you also got what you > paid for) we will wait patiently until someone actually makes a non-brass version > for a reasonable price. > > Right now I am anxiously waiting for the Broadyway Limited's DCC plus Sound > NYC J1 Hudson. When that one is released they will be working on a PRR M1. Just > think, Sound, DCC, and a beautifully detailed M1a for less than $300. I'll sign > up for that release !! > > Regards, > Nick Kulp > > From: "Rob Schoenberg" > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:37:42 -0500 > > Hi all, > > Is the 0-6-0 saddle tank steam engine that Bachman/Spectrum recently > released correct for the Pennsy? They painted it as a B8, #2790 which is at > least the right type of loco but how close is it actually to a B8? > > Thanks! > > Rob > http://prr.railfan.net > > http://www.igateway.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:22:09 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Research Material Question --part1_d5.1305bec9.299b0bb1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, Since a large portion of the magazines are ads which I have no desire to archive, I carefully cut the articles I want to save and file them in folders by subject matter. When I want an article I simply need to go to the folder. I have about 25 years of articles in 2 4 drawer filing cabinets. Rich Orr --part1_d5.1305bec9.299b0bb1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris,

Since a large portion of the magazines are ads which I have no desire to archive, I carefully cut the articles I want to save and file them in folders by subject matter.  When I want an article I simply need to go to the folder.  I have about 25 years of articles in 2 4 drawer filing cabinets.

Rich Orr --part1_d5.1305bec9.299b0bb1_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:49:04 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Spectrum 0-6-0 saddle tank In a message dated 02/12/2002 3:05:08 PM Central Standard Time, lmatt@alltel.net writes: << It gets very boring listening to the rivet counters saying what should or shouldn't be done by modelers based on the quality of very high priced models. >> And I will repeat my usual mantra. Life is a resource, too. My argument gets a little weaker as the limited run plastic kits expand to the most exotic models around, but basically if you want a 3-foot viewing model of a B8 saddle tank, get the Bachmann and putty in a Belpaire while your friends wait a chunk of their life for a plastic "state-of-the-art" model. And it has the advantage over brass that you won't have to be a rocket scientist to fit in a decoder if you have DCC. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:08:14 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Spectrum 0-6-0 saddle tank 02/13/02 Hi Lew, I wasn't advocating that those with the incentive to take the 0-6-0 and modify it, shouldn't. (like they'd listen anyway) I was merely pointing out the fact that today, the manufacturers are more willing to make a model of a locomotive than before. Today we have a LOT more options than Squadron Green putty, there are sheet plastic, shapes, detail parts, and goodies beyond the imagination of a modeler 30 years ago. By the same token taking a locomotive that costs $10 and hacking it up is a lot less intimidating than taking a $70 locomotive and hacking it up. Anyone that has seen my layout knows that rivet counters are shot on Cornwall property. I model with a personal agenda, not "were there two or three blades of grass by that signal on the prototype?" The Cornwall Railroad has more varied equipment than the prototype. I love it when a manufacturer produces a Demonstrator paint scheme. If it's within earshot of my timeframe, I buy it. I have a young modeler coming to my layout and he is a pleasure to have visit. He is willing to try anything since he hasn't a lot of experience and he brings a great attitude to the work sessions. Everyone needs to start somewhere. Wait until you see the Tuscan Hudson pulling the Congressional, HA !!! The keystones will be from the T1 tender. Regards, Nick From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:52:38 -0500 On this discussion of the Bachman "B-6" Why not take some squadron green putty and make a belpaire firebox? If it looks good to you, RUN it. It doesn't have to be "brass quality" to be an acceptable model to run on your own layout. It gets very boring listening to the rivet counters saying what should or shouldn't be done by modelers based on the quality of very high priced models. Where would this hobby be if nothing were every attempted by the average modelers if the results didn't look 100% scale. Not every model is destined for the scale contest. Lets loosen up and be kind and encouraging to those who want to build a B6 out of a radial stayed Bman boiler!!! Help these people and encourage them to add the putty to the boiler. OK! You got the program? Good. Lew Matt http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:30:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 From: Jerry Britton On 2/12/02 3:21 PM, Geoffrey Van Dooren at (geoff_vandooren@yahoo.com) wrote: > I have always been told that the PRR retiered the T1 > around 1950. > But, on the steam roster from 1954 (which I copied at > the RR museum of Pennsylvania last summer) 7 T1's and > 1 T1a are listed. > Middle Division: > 5543 T1 > 5545 T1 > 5547 T1a > 5549 T1 > > Pittsburgh Division > 5542 T1 > 5544 T1 > 5546 T1 > 5548 T1 > > So, if they had been retiered, why were these still on > the roster? > According to Edson's data, T1's lasted well beyond 1950. It shows the following retirements: 1952 - 3 units 1953 - 41 units 1956 - 8 units Both prototypes were among those retired in 1953. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:46:16 -0500 From: Subject: Re: [PRR] Long train on former Northern Central After looking through some of the old (scary to be saying old!) Conrail schedules I had, I found that the old symbol for that coal train was not UPS (This symbol goes up the Portland Secondary in Eastern PA.) It was the USG, as in Spring Grove. I would bet that the train goes to the paper mill... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:36:00 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 From: prrq2 > According to Edson's data, T1's lasted well beyond 1950. > > It shows the following retirements: > > 1952 - 3 units > 1953 - 41 units > 1956 - 8 units Do you have engine numbers for each group? I am unfamiliar with Edson, and where to find this info. Thanks -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 05:43:44 -0800 (PST) From: Joseph Andrews Subject: [PRR] Research Material Question I have been following this thread with interest since I am infected with the "incurable packrat syndrome". It has been suggested that I will never be admitted into heaven until I give up my evil ways. 1. I bind my magazines in loose leaf binders that I mostly rescued from my employer's dumpster. I use plastic magazine holders that I buy at Staples or Walmart. Binding them ensures that they will stay organized. 2. The binders (and yet to be bound mags) then go into plastic "milk crates". These can be had for as little as $1.50 on sale. They won't collapse like cardboard boxes do and can be stacked. 3. The crates are currently stored in the attic, but someday will go under the layout when that becomes a reality. 4. I do scan a very few special articles using a software product known as "Visioneer paperport". I also use this product extensively for storing copies of such things as instruction manuals. Many is the time that that I was happy not to turn the house upside down looking for a manual. I recommend then moving that to writable CD as your hard drive will fill up in a hurry. Adobe Acrobat is another choice but far more pricey. 5. The problem with cutting up mags is that you never know if you're thowing away something you're not interested in now but may be in the future. Joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:28:37 EST Subject: [PRR] Renovo Div. 1920's Hello List. Looking for people interested in the Renovo Div in the 1920's,modelers and historical concerning track arrangement. Contact me off list please with above subject. Thank you. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Re: Lionel G scale E6s Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:54:59 -0500 Norm: I've 2 of these Belpair Brutes. Your info is correct on the Weak Motors. Also the "Sound System" that Lionel used is SAD at Best. At Passenger Train Speeds they sound like Sick Sputtering Alcos. Further, the Pilot Couplers are dummy's that by no means match up with Tender Couplers for Double Heading (the reason I have 2 of them). I'm not all that sure but knowing Lionel these probably won't measure up to Rivet Counting. You'll find loads more info on the E6s conversions and "fixes" at LargeScaleOnline.com. Hope this Helps ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:49:01 EST From: WAJK4@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Long train on former Northern Central The train terminates with NS in York, York Rail/Ma & Pa/Emmons takes over at that point and runs the consist down to Spring Grove. It is quite an impressive site some mornings when they have five or more of their GP units lashed up to crawl down to Spring Grove. While we are on the topic of York, does anyone know why the auto rack facility is no longer in use? It has been this way for atleast a month now with no signs of reopening. Walt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:52:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Long train on former Northern Central From: Jerry Britton On 2/13/02 12:49 PM, WAJK4@aol.com (WAJK4@aol.com) wrote: > The train terminates with NS in York, York Rail/Ma & Pa/Emmons takes over at > that point and runs the consist down to Spring Grove. It is quite an > impressive site some mornings when they have five or more of their GP units > lashed up to crawl down to Spring Grove. > While we are on the topic of York, does anyone know why the auto rack > facility is no longer in use? It has been this way for atleast a month now > with no signs of reopening. > Interesting...I still see autorack cars traversing the line at Emigsville. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:29:40 EST From: WAJK4@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Long train on former Northern Central To Jerry and the list... All I know is that every time I go by the yard in York, there are never any auto racks like there use to be. Also, the entire lot where they use to hold the cars until they were picked up by a truck is vacant. I have asked a lot of people (none that work in York unfortunately) and no one can figure this mystery out. Walt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Joanne Profumo" Subject: [PRR] Winnowing out the Research material Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:48:53 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1B4A5.F02BF260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm a "newbie" to the group but not to the clutter that our hobby = attracts. I've been a long-time advocate of the "rip-it-out, stick it in = a binder (inside of clear plastic sheets)" approach to getting rid of = magazines, but even that has the disadvantage of a growing collection of = binders (Color-coded, by road, by subject)! I've been experimenting with scanning articles into my computer, then = turning them into PDF files. The trick is that I then burn them onto a = CD-ROM. The theory is that I could have hundreds of articles stored onto = CD's that take up very little space. Has anyone else tried this? Paolo Profumo ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1B4A5.F02BF260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm a "newbie" to the group but not to = the clutter=20 that our hobby attracts. I've been a long-time advocate of the = "rip-it-out,=20 stick it in a binder (inside of clear plastic sheets)" approach to = getting rid=20 of magazines, but even that has the disadvantage of a growing collection = of=20 binders (Color-coded, by road, by subject)!
I've been experimenting with scanning = articles into=20 my computer, then turning them into PDF files. The trick is that I then = burn=20 them onto a CD-ROM. The theory is that I could have hundreds of articles = stored=20 onto CD's that take up very little space.
Has anyone else tried = this?
Paolo = Profumo
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1B4A5.F02BF260-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAJK4@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:28:59 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Long train on former Northern Central --part1_14d.8e33e18.299c5ecb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On my way home tonight, I did think of a Pennsy question for the list to think about, and for my own personal interest. My question is - When was the last Pennsy passenger train to travel through York via the main station in the city? This is probably a very simple answer, but as of right now (only three hours into the quest for an answer) I do not know. Thanks. Walt --part1_14d.8e33e18.299c5ecb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On my way home tonight, I did think of a Pennsy question for the list to think about, and for my own personal interest.  My question is - When was the last Pennsy passenger train to travel through York via the main station in the city?  This is probably a very simple answer, but as of right now (only three hours into the quest for an answer) I do not know.  Thanks.


Walt --part1_14d.8e33e18.299c5ecb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:19:42 EST Subject: [PRR] T1 Retirements KEYSTONE STEAM & ELECTRIC Wm D. Edson (Wayner Publications, NY NY - 1974) # Built Builder Dropped 6110 4/42 Baldwin 12/53 6111 5/42 " 12/53 5500-03 11/45 Juniata 12/53 5525-29 11/45 Baldwin 12/53 5504-08 12/45 Juniata 12/53 (05 & 08 in March, 53*) 5509-10 1/46 " 12/53 5511-14 2/46 " 12/53 5515-16 3/46 " 12/53 5517 3/46 " 3/52 * 5518-20 4/46 " 12/53 5521 4/46 " 12/53 5530 1/46 Baldwin 12/53 5531-33 4/46 " 12/53 5534-37 5/46 " 12/53 5521 5/46 Juniata 12/53 5522 5/46 " 3/52 * 5523-24 6/46 " 12/53 5538-41 6/46 Baldwin 12/53 5542-45 7/46 " 1/56 "Sold as scrap" 5546-49 8/46 " 1/56 " I've "recrunched" the data differently than presented by Edson, as I had heard, somewhere, that they may have been laid up waiting for their "Trusts" to be paid off, before they could be sold. Any historians of this class care to take a stab at why the last 8 built outlasted the rest by 2 years - and why 4 went a year and 9 months before the rest RE Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:24:37 EST Subject: [PRR] T1 - correction Why is it that you spot the error only after "send" has already been clicked: Short Answer: 3 units 5508, 5517 & 5522 "Dropped" 3/52 one, 5505 dropped 3/53 Eight, 5542 - 5549, lasted to 1/56 All others dropped from the roster 12/53 Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:50:47 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Retirements From: prrq2 Thanks for the info. I have photos of #5501 and #5517 in storage at Crestline, all dated 1952, the knuckles have been removed from the couplers. This is also true of several Q2s stored there as well. Was this a standard practice for stored engines? Otherwise, they appear to be in running condition. This would be a minor thing compared to firing them up if they needed to in a pinch. -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/ > From: VVA249@aol.com > Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:19:42 EST > To: prrq2@prairieinet.net, prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] T1 Retirements > > KEYSTONE STEAM & ELECTRIC > Wm D. Edson > (Wayner Publications, NY NY - 1974) > > # Built Builder Dropped > 6110 4/42 Baldwin 12/53 > 6111 5/42 " 12/53 > 5500-03 11/45 Juniata 12/53 > 5525-29 11/45 Baldwin 12/53 > 5504-08 12/45 Juniata 12/53 (05 & 08 in March, 53*) > 5509-10 1/46 " 12/53 > 5511-14 2/46 " 12/53 > 5515-16 3/46 " 12/53 > 5517 3/46 " 3/52 * > 5518-20 4/46 " 12/53 > 5521 4/46 " 12/53 > 5530 1/46 Baldwin 12/53 > 5531-33 4/46 " 12/53 > 5534-37 5/46 " 12/53 > 5521 5/46 Juniata 12/53 > 5522 5/46 " 3/52 * > 5523-24 6/46 " 12/53 > 5538-41 6/46 Baldwin 12/53 > 5542-45 7/46 " 1/56 "Sold as scrap" > 5546-49 8/46 " 1/56 " > > I've "recrunched" the data differently than presented by Edson, as I had > heard, somewhere, that they may have been laid up waiting for their "Trusts" > to be paid off, before they could be sold. Any historians of this class care > to take a stab at why the last 8 built outlasted the rest by 2 years - and > why 4 went a year and 9 months before the rest > > RE Ross > Cleveland > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:51:49 -0500 From: "H.&S." Subject: [PRR] N-5 parts Hello all.... Last week or so there was a guy from up New Jersey way looking for parts for a N-5 restoration..... I saw this on E-bay for a stove.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1072937308 Perhaps they could use this.... Til Later H. Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KLJURY@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:55:40 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR on TV For Harrisburg area viewers who could not recieve Phila PBS channel 12's documentary on the Pennsylvania Railroad which aired a few weeks ago it will be on Hershey PBS channel 33 Wed Feb 20 at 9 p.m. followed by a program on railroad stations of the Keystone State restored for other purposes (including Latrobe) at 10 p.m. The Pennsylvania Railroad program will also be aired 3 p.m. Fri 2/22. Must be sweeps month for railfans, too! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Sunnyside T-1 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:22:31 -0500 Hi Everyone, Does anyone know where a Sunnyside O Scale T-1 may be for sale? Please reply to billlane@snip.net Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:06:28 EST Subject: [PRR] T1 Retirements In a message dated 2/13/02 9:00:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, prrq2@prairieinet.net writes: << I have photos of #5501 and #5517 in storage at Crestline, all dated 1952, the knuckles have been removed from the couplers. (RR note: 5517 dropped 3/52 the others were not dropped from the roster until 12/53 -) This is also true of several Q2s stored there as well. Was this a standard practice for stored engines? Otherwise, they appear to be in running condition. This would be a minor thing compared to firing them up if they needed to in a pinch. >> If the Railroads did not self insure locomotive boilers, I'd say that it was probably an insurance thing.... However, this obvious disabling of an engine must have been so that "Higher Authority" would be notified, if there was an attempt to re-activate them. I suspect the real answer is lost in the mists of 50 years. Linked with other reports of the RR having to wait for the trusts to be paid off, before they could be scrapped, my guess would be that the boilers had "outlawed" under federal regulations, but since the RR still owed money on them could not scrap them and removed the knuckles to prevent their use - The knuckles were probably reattched only to drag them, dead, out of the yards - I've been reading railfan type stuff over 50 years and never seen a report on a loco steaming into a scrap yard, on its final run (for one thing there was probably much the RR removed before the sale) RRoss ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 07:16:58 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: Huge Train on Former Northern Central Branch From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" The following is from Ivan Frantz, a director of the PRRT&HS and who works at the Spring Grove paper plant... > The train that you saw was mostly made up of empty hoppers returning > from the paper mill at Spring Grove. When we get a unit coal train we > get a MINIMUM of 100 cars. If not all of the 100 cars are unloaded on a > Sunday, whatever is left is unloaded on second shift in smaller lots > through the week, with those empties then being added to the next coal > train that comes in. The empties are not returned to Enola until the > entire unit train is unloaded and the empties back in York. If the entire > train is unloaded on a Sunday, the empty train returns to Enola on a > Monday. > > So, yes that long a train was returning from Spring Grove. Here are > the numbers for your information. Depending on steam demand, seasonal > temperature conditions, maintenance considerations, and any other unseen > problems......we burn an average of 750 tons of coal a day in Spring > Grove to provide steam for the papermaking process and generate > electricity. We also try to keep a 30 day supply of coal on hand in case > there is any problem with coal delivery.....mine or railroad strike or > shutdown, equipment problems, weather delays, etc. Figure it out...7.5 > cars per day X 365 days....about 2,800 cars per year. At 100 cars per > train that's 28 trains per year...or an average of 1 train every other > week. Delivery is more frequent over the winter and spaced out some > during the summer, this month of February we are getting a coal train > every week. Coal comes from 3 different suppliers.....Peabody, > Consolidated, and Sothern Appalachian Coal Companies. Most coal comes > from either Bailey mine or Federal #2 mine out of West Virginia. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:13:23 EST Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Inspection Car --part1_18a.35c8ae7.299dbab3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List, Got a question. Did The Pennsylvania ever have an "Inspection Car" ? The reason I ask is that in the new MTH Catalog (Toy Fair edition) they are featureing their DC-3 Rail Inspection Car in Pennsy MOW Dress. I believe this car is bassed on a Union Pacific prototype. I gotta admit this model looks sharp... but I don't think its even close to being prototypical. Jon S. --part1_18a.35c8ae7.299dbab3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List,
Got a question. Did The Pennsylvania ever have an "Inspection Car" ? The reason I ask is that in the new MTH Catalog (Toy Fair edition) they are featureing their DC-3 Rail Inspection Car in Pennsy MOW Dress. I believe this car is bassed on a Union Pacific prototype. I gotta admit this model looks sharp... but I don't think its even close to being prototypical.

Jon S.
 --part1_18a.35c8ae7.299dbab3_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:23:33 -0500 From: Ken Meyer Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Huge Train on Former Northern Central Branch Is there a long history of the paper plant and it operations? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:35:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Inspection Car Hello Jon & list, Now when you say "inspection car", do you mean a passenger car and one end of the car has raised "theater" type seats facing the rear end of the car? I have a old (1930s) PRR movie with that type of car on the end on a fan trip excursion. The movie is blurry but I'm sure it's a PRR car. My friend is a PRR passenger car expert. I'll ask him about the car. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:00:05 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Inspection Car --part1_16a.8d7fd70.299dc5a5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/14/02 5:36:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: > > > > Hello Jon & list, > > Now when you say "inspection car", do you mean a passenger car and > one end of the car has raised "theater" type seats facing the rear end > of the car? I have a old (1930s) PRR movie > with that type of car on the end on a fan trip excursion. The movie is > blurry but I'm sure it's a PRR car. > My friend is a PRR passenger car expert. I'll ask him about the car. > > Dave Hopson > No Dave, This is a self powered unit kinda like a Sperry Rail Car on steroids if you will... or an over sized doodlebug set up for rail and track inspection. Jon S. --part1_16a.8d7fd70.299dc5a5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/14/02 5:36:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes:





      Hello Jon & list,

    Now when you say "inspection car", do you mean a passenger car and
one end of the car has raised "theater" type seats facing the rear end
of the car? I have a old (1930s) PRR movie
with that type of car on the end on a fan trip excursion. The movie is
blurry but I'm sure it's a PRR car.
    My friend is a PRR passenger car expert. I'll ask him about the car.

                                   Dave Hopson


No Dave,
This is a self powered unit kinda like a Sperry Rail Car on steroids if you will... or an over sized doodlebug set up for rail and track inspection.

Jon S. --part1_16a.8d7fd70.299dc5a5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:17:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Inspection Car Never saw anything like that. Check Pennsy Power 3 in "Motor Car" section. Dave H. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:26:09 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Inspection Car --part1_59.1791805b.299dcbc1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/14/02 6:17:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: > Never saw anything like that. Check Pennsy Power 3 in "Motor Car" > section. > > Dave H. > Dave, I've checked all my books and I can't find anything even close to this car... and I didn't think I would. But I find it hard to believe (for some reason) that The Pennsy didn't have some type of car for this purpose. It doesn't seem right that the Pennsy (at least in the hay days) would leave this job up to an outside firm like Sperry. Anyone eles have anty imput on this topic? Jon S. --part1_59.1791805b.299dcbc1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/14/02 6:17:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes:


Never saw anything like that. Check Pennsy Power 3 in "Motor Car"
section.

                                               Dave H.


Dave,
I've checked all my books and I can't find anything even close to this car... and I didn't think I would. But I find it hard to believe (for some reason) that The Pennsy didn't have some type of car for this purpose. It doesn't seem right that the Pennsy (at least in the hay days) would leave this job up to an outside firm like Sperry.
Anyone eles have anty imput on this topic?

Jon S. --part1_59.1791805b.299dcbc1_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:30:51 -0500 From: "Michael A. Hmel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Inspection Car This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_mOiO3GFQDzapMbSlsTa/vw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dave , This is a UP self propelled unit . It is offered in a brass model for HO = by Overland . It was modeled after the UP DC-3 Rail Detection Car (circa = 1963). I'm not sure if it is currently available from OMI . If MTH put = it out in PRR they must be having trouble moving the item . It is not = prototypical for the PRR . I'm getting ready to build one in HO / = plastic . The brass is a little too pricey for me . I'm however planning = to enter it in my PRR roster even if it never existed . Mike=20 PRRT&HS ,=20 TCA , Fort Pitt Div.=20 PRR , Conrail , PC Modeler Talk List=20 --Boundary_(ID_mOiO3GFQDzapMbSlsTa/vw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dave ,
This is a UP self = propelled unit . It=20 is offered in a brass model for HO by Overland . It was modeled = after the=20 UP DC-3 Rail Detection Car (circa 1963). I'm not sure if it is=20 currently available from OMI . If MTH put it out in = PRR they must=20 be having trouble moving the item . It is not prototypical for the PRR . = I'm getting ready to build one in HO / plastic . The brass is a = little too=20 pricey for me . I'm however planning to enter it in my = PRR roster=20 even if it never existed .
 
Mike
PRRT&HS ,
TCA , Fort Pitt Div. =
PRR , Conrail , PC Modeler Talk = List 
 
--Boundary_(ID_mOiO3GFQDzapMbSlsTa/vw)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR- Pennsy Inspection Car Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 07:27:50 -0500 The PRR did not have the UP type of inspection car referred to in the post. Sophisticated measuring equipment such as is mounted in that car was not state of the art during PRR days. And YES the PRR did use Sperry Rail Services for their rail flaw detection program. I rode the car when it was on my territory. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:04:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR- Pennsy Inspection Car --part1_20.23ec9fc5.299e9997_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/15/02 4:42:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, abbuchan1@home.com writes: > The PRR did not have the UP type of inspection car referred to in the post. > Sophisticated measuring equipment such as is mounted in that car was not > state of the art during PRR days. And YES the PRR did use Sperry Rail > Services for their rail flaw detection program. I rode the car when it was > on my territory. > > Al > Thanks Al for this information. Its almost hard to believe that "The Mighty Pennsy" allowed another company to perform any kind of work on their railroad... but I guess that Sperry was, and still is, the champs at what they do and as they say 'the best man for the job" ! Thanks again. Jon S. --part1_20.23ec9fc5.299e9997_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/15/02 4:42:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, abbuchan1@home.com writes:


The PRR did not have the UP type of inspection car referred to in the post.
Sophisticated measuring equipment such as is mounted in that car was not
state of the art during PRR days. And YES the PRR did use Sperry Rail
Services for their rail flaw detection program. I rode the car when it was
on my territory.

Al


Thanks Al for this information. Its almost hard to believe that "The Mighty Pennsy" allowed another company to perform any kind of work on their railroad... but I guess that Sperry was, and still is, the champs at what they do and as they say 'the best man for the job" !  Thanks again.

Jon S. --part1_20.23ec9fc5.299e9997_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR- Pennsy Inspection Car Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:45:15 +0000 I think that at one time the Sperry technology was proprietary and superior to anything else out there. no doubt there have been improvements in technology but most RR's still rely on Sperry to perform this service. > In a message dated 2/15/02 4:42:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, > abbuchan1@home.com writes: > > > > The PRR did not have the UP type of inspection car referred to in the post. > > Sophisticated measuring equipment such as is mounted in that car was not > > state of the art during PRR days. And YES the PRR did use Sperry Rail > > Services for their rail flaw detection program. I rode the car when it was > > on my territory. > > > > Al > > > > Thanks Al for this information. Its almost hard to believe that "The Mighty > Pennsy" allowed another company to perform any kind of work on their > railroad... but I guess that Sperry was, and still is, the champs at what > they do and as they say 'the best man for the job" ! Thanks again. > > Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: PRR- Pennsy Inspection Car Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:56:23 -0600 Two PRRT&HS conventions ago, there was a Sperry rail service car parked in the Lewistown yard, east of the station. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 11:45 AM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com; JONS6755@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR- Pennsy Inspection Car I think that at one time the Sperry technology was proprietary and superior to anything else out there. no doubt there have been improvements in technology but most RR's still rely on Sperry to perform this service. > In a message dated 2/15/02 4:42:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, > abbuchan1@home.com writes: > > > > The PRR did not have the UP type of inspection car referred to in the post. > > Sophisticated measuring equipment such as is mounted in that car was not > > state of the art during PRR days. And YES the PRR did use Sperry Rail > > Services for their rail flaw detection program. I rode the car when it was > > on my territory. > > > > Al > > > > Thanks Al for this information. Its almost hard to believe that "The Mighty > Pennsy" allowed another company to perform any kind of work on their > railroad... but I guess that Sperry was, and still is, the champs at what > they do and as they say 'the best man for the job" ! Thanks again. > > Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: PRR- Pennsy Inspection Car Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:45:15 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C1B62F.6157D9B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In Wayner's "Cars of the Pennsy" on page 64 there's a photo of an X25 box car in MOW paint labeled as a rail test car. What was this? Did it perform a similar function to the Sperry equipment? Obviously it would require a locomotive as it wasn't self propelled but did it do the same type of rail flaw detection? Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of JONS6755@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:04 PM To: abbuchan1@home.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR- Pennsy Inspection Car In a message dated 2/15/02 4:42:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, abbuchan1@home.com writes: The PRR did not have the UP type of inspection car referred to in the post. Sophisticated measuring equipment such as is mounted in that car was not state of the art during PRR days. And YES the PRR did use Sperry Rail Services for their rail flaw detection program. I rode the car when it was on my territory. Al Thanks Al for this information. Its almost hard to believe that "The Mighty Pennsy" allowed another company to perform any kind of work on their railroad... but I guess that Sperry was, and still is, the champs at what they do and as they say 'the best man for the job" ! Thanks again. Jon S. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C1B62F.6157D9B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In=20 Wayner's "Cars of the Pennsy" on page 64 there's a photo of an X25 box = car in=20 MOW paint labeled as a rail test car.  What was this?  Did it = perform=20 a similar function to the Sperry equipment?  Obviously it would = require a=20 locomotive as it wasn't self propelled but did it do the same type of = rail flaw=20 detection? 
 
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of = JONS6755@aol.com
Sent:=20 Friday, February 15, 2002 12:04 PM
To: abbuchan1@home.com;=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR- Pennsy = Inspection=20 Car

In a message dated 2/15/02 4:42:57 AM = Pacific=20 Standard Time, abbuchan1@home.com writes:


The PRR did not have the UP type of inspection car = referred to=20 in the post.
Sophisticated measuring equipment such as is mounted = in that=20 car was not
state of the art during PRR days. And YES the PRR did = use=20 Sperry Rail
Services for their rail flaw detection program. I = rode the=20 car when it was
on my = territory.

Al


Thanks=20 Al for this information. Its almost hard to believe that "The Mighty = Pennsy"=20 allowed another company to perform any kind of work on their = railroad... but I=20 guess that Sperry was, and still is, the champs at what they do and as = they=20 say 'the best man for the job" !  Thanks again.

Jon = S.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C1B62F.6157D9B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: [PRR] Photos of sales items on E-Bay Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:48:58 -0500 Friends: I was going to sell some HO PRR equipment on e-bay but discovered that my paid photo http address is Kaput! I subscribed to Photopoint but they have gone belly-up. Does anyone know of any other photo service that will let you address an individual photo for review for e-bay sales? Lew Matt Synergistic Solutions: Alternative Septic and Energy Systems Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:20:04 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of sales items on E-Bay most ISP providers allow you some free "FTP" space with your account - you shouldn't need to pay anyone extra - which is probably why these "providers" are no longer around ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:27:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR- Pennsy Inspection Car In a message dated 2/15/02 12:14:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, JONS6755@aol.com writes: << The PRR did not have the UP type of inspection car referred to in the post. > Sophisticated measuring equipment such as is mounted in that car was not > state of the art during PRR days. And YES the PRR did use Sperry Rail > Services for their rail flaw detection program. I rode the car when it was > on my territory. >> I believe that the UP Rail-car is also a rail grinding car (the reason for all of those little wheels between the trucks) I've see the MTH 3 rail version operate lots of sound and smoke - I thought, however, that it was an odd choice as - I believe - that it was a "single road" car - unless the UP also leased it out - I think it was strictly one of a kind ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alex Charyna" Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of sales items on E-Bay Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:09:52 -0900 Drifting off-topic but....... Most ISPs call this "personal home page space". There's no reason why you cant put stuff in there and link to it. Currest ISP, Voicenet.com, they offer that service to me included with my dial up fees. When I was on Comcast@Home, same deal. You needs to be at least familiar with HTML, but it can be done. To at least interject PRR (and be mildly on topic), into this message, I'll be posting my PRR layout plans (NEC/Commuter from Broad to Trenton) in a similar way. (When they're in a presentable state at least). -alex ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of sales items on E-Bay > most ISP providers allow you some free "FTP" space with your account - you > shouldn't need to pay anyone extra - which is probably why these "providers" > are no longer around > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: [PRR] PRR yard names Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:26:21 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1B64E.44AD58C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can anyone tell me the correct names for the major yards in Detroit, = Cleveland and Sodus Point?=20 Thanks, Larry=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1B64E.44AD58C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can anyone tell me the correct names = for the major=20 yards in Detroit, Cleveland = and Sodus=20 Point?
 
Thanks,
 
Larry 
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C1B64E.44AD58C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 19:24:01 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of sales items on E-Bay In a message dated 2/15/02 1:56:57 PM Central Standard Time, lmatt@alltel.net writes: << Does anyone know of any other photo service that will let you address an individual photo for review for e-bay sales? >> I haven't used it, but I thought e-Bay provided a small amount of space. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:23:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR yard names From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3096649402_339827_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 2/15/02 6:26 PM, Larry Reynolds at pennsyrr@rcn.com wrote: Can anyone tell me the correct names for the major yards in Detroit, Cleveland and Sodus Point? Le'me guess, you built a helix and are extending your layout up into the first floor! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale! --MS_Mac_OE_3096649402_339827_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] PRR yard names on 2/15/02 6:26 PM, Larry Reynolds at pennsyrr@rcn.com wrote:

Can anyone tell me the correc= t names for the major yards in Detroit, Cleveland and Sodus Point?


Le'me guess, you built a helix and are extending your layout up into the fi= rst floor!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -
Jerry Britton       jerry@pennsyrr.com  =         http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale!
--MS_Mac_OE_3096649402_339827_MIME_Part-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:21:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR yard names Jerry, Cleveland had the Kinsman yard and the Lakefront Station coach yard for the passenger cars, later moved to the East 55th St. Station. There was also the Whiskey Island yard for the iron ore dock operations. Regards, Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Justin Silverman" Subject: [PRR] Restoration Books Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:40:41 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1B671.CC134860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, Just want to thank H. Mummert for his recommendation for checking Ebay fo= r a cabin car stove and would like to ask if anyone might know of good bo= oks for restoring a N5 cabin car to when it was owned by the PRR. Since = we at Ocean Gate Historical Society have no experience at restoring our c= abin car, that we just bought recently from Amtrak (more info: www.oghist= oricalsociety.org, follow popup window), any book would be useful to purc= hase. Thanks! Sincerely, J. Silverman Co-curator at OGHS ----- Original Message ----- From: H.&S. Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:13 PM To: Prr-Talk Subject: [PRR] N-5 parts Hello all.... Last week or so there was a guy from up New Jersey way looking for parts for a N-5 restoration..... I saw this on E-bay for a stove.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1072937308 Perhaps they could use this.... Til Later H. Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.Get mor= e from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1B671.CC134860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Everyone,
 
Just want to thank H. Mummert for his recomme= ndation for checking Ebay for a cabin car stove and would like to ask if = anyone might know of good books for restoring a N5 cabin car to when= it was owned by the PRR.  Since we at Ocean Gate Historical Society= have no experience at restoring our cabin car, that we just bought = recently from Amtrak (more info: www.oghistoricalsociety.org, follow popup window), any book wo= uld be useful to purchase.
 
Thanks!
 
Sincerely,
J. Silverman
Co-cura= tor at OGHS
----- Original Message -----
From: H.&S.
Sent: Wednesday= , February 13, 2002 9:13 PM
To:<= /B> Prr-Talk
Subject: [PRR] = N-5 parts
 
Hello all....

Last week or so the= re was a guy from up New Jersey way looking
for parts for a N-5 restor= ation.....
I saw this on E-bay for a stove....

http://cgi.ebay.= com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1072937308

Perhaps th= ey could use this....

       &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;            Til= Later
          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;         H. Mummert


= -----------------------------------------------------------------------For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
<= /BLOCKQUOTE>
Get more from the Web. FRE= E MSN Explorer download : http://expl= orer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1B671.CC134860-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:47:14 -0500 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR- Pennsy Inspection Car Some portion of this discussion comes from 'inspection car' having at least three, disjoint, meanings: Luxocar, used by Div Super (or whomever) to inspect the RoW. Usually had staterooms, large rear windows & extra lights for night/evening work. 'measurement' car, set up to do line and level and a dozen other physical measures of rail condition EXCLUDING rail flaw detection. (Sometimes same as case 1) Rail Flaw Detection (as provided by, eg, Sperry). Totally separate from first two. Required (at one time) a full car, latterly miniaturized to a hi rail truck. Originally magnetic, latterly ultrasonic added. For whatever reason (patents, special tech knowledge, i believe) most RRs contracted to SRS. (in ancient days: 'inspection lok' referred to a lovely hybrid of passenger car and steam lok, used for same duties as first two) best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:53:48 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] PRR Enola Coal question Hello all: Could somebody please tell me what the origin(s) for coal moving through Enola yard would most likely have been in the mid 1950's on the PRR? Also, would there have been any coal traffic from "foreign" roads like Reading or WM passing through Enola??? Thanks, Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 03:27:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR- Pennsy Inspection Car For what MTH is proposing check www,MTH-railking.com (2002 catalog vol 1) I've attempted to excert it at Http://www.members.aol.com/vva/dc3.jpg - hope it works I think you'll find that, especially in yellow paint, it's none of the above Actually, the big news in 3 rail "O" gauge is that K-line has announced a Pennsy A-5 as this year's "club" premium - A nice model at a very reasonable cost EXCEPT that in a truly dumb move showing that most people who work for these train manufacturers really know very little about trains - the "A" spots an oil headlight, where the generator should be. Not a big deal by itself, but it means that the loco is not contemporary with any current offering in three rail - and leaves open the question of how the electric headlight on the tender would have been powered in abscence of the 3rd rail. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR yard names Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:56:32 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C1B6C7.D4833400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] PRR yard namesJerry: No such luck! This is for "off line" destinations only, as we're = finally going to a formal car card system. However, long term plans = call for a helix at the AR staging loop to a second deck. This will = balance out the new Enola staging recently added. This is located under = the East Slope. I can't take credit for the idea though, Ken McCorry = gave me the suggestion. Regards, Larry=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jerry @ pennsyrr.com=20 To: Larry Reynolds ; PRR-Talk=20 Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR yard names on 2/15/02 6:26 PM, Larry Reynolds at pennsyrr@rcn.com wrote: Can anyone tell me the correct names for the major yards in Detroit, = Cleveland and Sodus Point?=20 Le'me guess, you built a helix and are extending your layout up into = the first floor! = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale! ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C1B6C7.D4833400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] PRR yard names
Jerry:
 
No such luck!  This is for "off = line"=20 destinations only, as we're finally going to a formal car card = system. =20 However, long term plans call for a helix at the AR staging loop to a = second=20 deck.  This will balance out the new Enola staging recently = added. =20 This is located under the East Slope.  I can't take credit for the = idea=20 though, Ken McCorry gave me the suggestion.
 
Regards,
 
Larry 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jerry @=20 pennsyrr.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 = 8:23=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR yard = names

on 2/15/02 6:26 PM, Larry Reynolds at pennsyrr@rcn.com wrote:

Can anyone tell me the = correct=20 names for the major yards in Detroit, Cleveland and Sodus Point?=20


Le'me guess, you built a = helix and are=20 extending your layout up into the first=20 = floor!
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------------
Jerry=20 Britton       jerry@pennsyrr.com=20          http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Modeling = the PRR=20 in 1954 in N scale!
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C1B6C7.D4833400-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Justin Silverman" Subject: [PRR] PC to Amtrak Renumbering Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:04:20 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1B6D1.4D2AB870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, Again, thank you Hank Mummert for your help! Also, I have a question if = anyone has a renumbering table for Penn Central to Amtrak. The N5 cabin = car that Ocean Gate Historical Society owns has an Amtrak number of #1400= 6 with a serial number of #14006PC19201. I am guessing that the car was = painted with the Penn Central number of 19201, by looking at a part of th= e serial number, PC19201. However, I heard that the renumbering table fo= r PRR to PC came up with the PRR number of 477411 which has a built date = of 1923, yet ours was built in 1918. If anyone might have a PC to Amtrak= renumbering table to confirm that indeed our car had the PC number of 19= 201 and the wrong date painted on it, please let me know. Thanks! Sincerely, Justin Silverman Co-curator at OGHSGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : ht= tp://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1B6D1.4D2AB870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Everyone,
 
Again, thank you Hank Mummert for your h= elp!  Also, I have a question if anyone has a renumbering table for = Penn Central to Amtrak.  The N5 cabin car that Ocean Gate Histo= rical Society owns has an Amtrak number of #14006 with a serial numb= er of #14006PC19201.  I am guessing that the car was painted wi= th the Penn Central number of 19201, by looking at a part of th= e serial number, PC19201.  However, I heard that the renumberin= g table for PRR to PC came up with the PRR number of 477411 which has a b= uilt date of 1923, yet ours was built in 1918.  If anyone might have= a PC to Amtrak renumbering table to confirm that indeed our car had the = PC number of 19201 and the wrong date painted on it, please let me know.<= /DIV>
 
Thanks!
 
Sincere= ly,
Justin Silverman
Co-curator at OGHS

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer dow= nload : http://explorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1B6D1.4D2AB870-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of sales items on E-Bay Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:44:09 -0000 Lew, Ebay, allow you to upload photos directly to your sale item when you list it. At least that's how the UK version worked when I, sold off some excess European stock. Patrick www.prr.org.uk PS what are you planning to sell? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 7:48 PM Subject: [PRR] Photos of sales items on E-Bay > Friends: > > I was going to sell some HO PRR equipment on e-bay but discovered that my > paid photo http address is Kaput! I subscribed to Photopoint but they have > gone belly-up. Does anyone know of any other photo service that will let > you address an individual photo for review for e-bay sales? > > Lew Matt > > > Synergistic Solutions: Alternative Septic and Energy Systems > Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JSZARMACH@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:00:27 EST Subject: [PRR] GG1s Scrapped In 1990s I've read that 2 ex-New Jersey Transit GG1s (Nos. 4872 and 4873) initially survived after they were auctioned in the 1980s by NJT, but were later scrapped sometime in the 1990s. Does anyone know the circumstances surrounding these two GG1s? I've read that 1 of them was owned by an individual. Any info on these 2 units is appreciated. --Joe ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:09:31 -0500 From: David Carl =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mallon=E9e?= Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1s Scrapped In 1990s Joe, According to http://www.spikesys.com/GG1/ they were scrapped in the early 1990's. David JSZARMACH@aol.com wrote: > > I've read that 2 ex-New Jersey Transit GG1s (Nos. 4872 and 4873) initially > survived after they were auctioned in the 1980s by NJT, but were later > scrapped sometime in the 1990s. Does anyone know the circumstances > surrounding these two GG1s? I've read that 1 of them was owned by an > individual. > > Any info on these 2 units is appreciated. > > --Joe > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- "One grandfather worked for the Pennsylvania Railroad, The other worked for the Baltimore & Ohio. I have every damn right to be schizophrenic!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:45:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of sales items on E-Bay --part1_bc.21bf1029.29a13824_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ebay will let you post one picture per auction using their site without charge. More pictures will cost you. Rich Orr --part1_bc.21bf1029.29a13824_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ebay will let you post one picture per auction using their site without charge.  More pictures will cost you.

Rich Orr --part1_bc.21bf1029.29a13824_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Justin Silverman" Subject: [PRR] Rail Restoration Grants Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:00:28 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1B7CC.38190620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, One more question I have for the restoration of the cabin car at Ocean Ga= te Historical Society. Since the society is a non-profit organization wi= thout extensive accessible funds, we would like to apply for grants that = concern with rail preservation. If anyone might know about this kind of = grant, please let me know. Thanks! Sincerely, Justin Silverman Co-curator at OGHSGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : ht= tp://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1B7CC.38190620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Everyone,
 
One more question I have for the restoration = of the cabin car at Ocean Gate Historical Society.  Since the s= ociety is a non-profit organization without extensive accessible fun= ds, we would like to apply for grants that concern with rail preservation= .  If anyone might know about this kind of grant, please let me know= .
 
Thanks!
 
Since= rely,
Justin Silverman
Co-curator at OGHS

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer d= ownload : http://explorer.msn.com=

------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1B7CC.38190620-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:10:31 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR yard names --part1_a8.6bd269e.29a1caa7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry, According to Bill Caloroso's book "Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch" The Sodus Point yard was named Sodus Yard. FYI Southport was the PRR yard in Elmira. Rich Orr --part1_a8.6bd269e.29a1caa7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry,

According to Bill Caloroso's book "Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch" The Sodus Point yard was named Sodus Yard.  FYI Southport was the PRR yard in Elmira.

Rich Orr --part1_a8.6bd269e.29a1caa7_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:48:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Caboose water tank et c From: "M. E Allen" Justin 1. Your photograph looks very much like my tank. 2. Very carefully try removing the paint [probably several layers thick] one layer at a time in the area inside the car immediately above the end doors. The car numbers were often stenciled there. Mike Allen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 00:05:18 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR E-7 --part1_12a.c748f36.29a1e58e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PRR List, Picked up two Overland E-7 drives with Con-Cor E-7 shells at the train show this weekend. Comparing the shells to photos of the PRR units reveals heavy modifications being needed to match the PRR's units. Is there a shell for or more compatible to the PRR units? Many thanks in advance, Evan Leisey PS Several weeks ago there was a thread on trucks for the P70 cars with several list members liking the out of production MDC 2935 pass. trucks. The Denver Model RR Club, housed at the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, Colorado, had a table there with around a dozen of these trucks for sale. These were still on the table at closing time on Sunday. I will check with one of their members at work tomorrow about getting these if anyone on the list is interested in them. Believe they were two or three bucks a pair. --part1_12a.c748f36.29a1e58e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PRR List,

  Picked up two Overland E-7 drives with Con-Cor E-7 shells at the train show this weekend.  Comparing the shells to photos of the PRR units reveals heavy modifications being needed to match the PRR's units.  

  Is there a shell for or more compatible to the PRR units?

Many thanks in advance,

Evan Leisey

PS   Several weeks ago there was a thread on trucks for the P70 cars with several list members liking the out of production MDC 2935 pass. trucks.   The Denver Model RR Club, housed at the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, Colorado, had a table there with around a dozen of these trucks for sale.  These were still on the table at closing time on Sunday.  I will check with one of their members at work tomorrow about getting these if anyone on the list is interested in them.  Believe they were two or three bucks a pair. --part1_12a.c748f36.29a1e58e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Color Guide V3 MOW Equipment Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 00:34:16 -0500 This is a response to a question asked a while ago.... I'm not sure that the car in question is a converted box car especially since it has end platforms. It looks very similar to a class TA tool car. It's hard to tell from the photo. The major difference from the car and the diagram for the TA that I can see from the photo is the location of the cupola... The diagram is at: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=TA-.gif&sel=tool&sz=sm &fr= There's a photo of a TA on the cover of Wayner's Cars of the Pennsylvania Railroad. It definitely looks similar, same window and door configuration, but has a centered coupola like the diagram. Don't know if the car the color guide vol 3 is the same class but rebuilt or just looks similar... Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Brian J Carlson Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:04 AM To: CENTGA@aol.com; PRR-TALK@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Color Guide V3 MOW Equipment Todd and all I believe the side door caboose is nothing more than a boxcar with a cupola added. The picture on 109 is too far away to read the dimensional data but I offer the picture on 110 of a flanger stenciled as class XL with a cupola added. I also think those were tool boxes added under class XL cars on page 109. I am sure others will have the definitive answer. Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: CENTGA@aol.com To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 10:48 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR Color Guide V3 While browsing through the book I noticed the pic on the top of page 109. The boxcar in M of W service appears to be unusual or unique to the PRR. Anyone have details or comments on this car, not to mention the side door caboose as well. Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:40:26 -0500 From: Charles Ring Subject: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > Larry, > > According to Bill Caloroso's book "Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira > Branch" The Sodus Point yard was named Sodus Yard. FYI Southport was > the PRR yard in Elmira. > > Rich Orr How did it develop that some PRR block stations had two-letter symbols for names, some were named an abbreviation for the locality, and some had unique names like Detour (which was down the track from my father's yard office)? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JSZARMACH@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:02:01 EST Subject: [PRR] GG1s Scrapped In 1990s David, Thanks. I've seen the websites indicating they were scrapped in the 1990s. I am hoping that someone on the list either had something to do with attempting to save them, or knows the person(s) who did -- and could say why they were initially saved but then scrapped. ==================================== Joe, According to http://www.spikesys.com/GG1/ they were scrapped in the early 1990's. David ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 06:45:01 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names --- Charles Ring wrote: > > How did it develop that some PRR block stations had > two-letter symbols > for names, some were named an abbreviation for the > locality, and some > had unique names like Detour (which was down the > track from my father's > yard office)? In the beginning, the two-letter "names" were used as call signs on the telegraph. There, shorter is better (within limits). As telephone or teletype replaced telegraph, brevity became somewhat less important, so longer names became feasible. Perhaps the perceived advantage of "easy to remember" drove the change. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hipes" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR yard names Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:47:30 ETT #5 dated 10/30/66 shows the station within yard limits in Detroit as Lincoln Park. I believe this was also the official name of the yard as well. PRR was a late comer to Detroit, maybe even the last major railroad to build a line into the city. Lincoln Park yard was a small facility. My guess is they relied heavily on interchange traffic from Pennsylvania Company subsidiaries like the Wabash and DT&I. Perhaps some can shed some more light on PRR operations in the Motor City? Steve Hipes >From: "Larry Reynolds" >To: "PRR-Talk" >Subject: [PRR] PRR yard names >Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:26:21 -0500 > >Can anyone tell me the correct names for the major yards in Detroit, >Cleveland and Sodus Point? > >Thanks, > >Larry _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:22:04 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] FD2/FW1 Morning, I just picked up an ALCO models FD2/FW1 "Queen Mary" flat car, and I had a few questions... 1) I see Railworks is releasing a new one this month, and the add shows FCC trucks. The photo in the color guide shows black trucks, as does a B&W photo in the Keystone (summer 96, I think). Did Railworks mess up on this? 2) Where can I get the appropriate decals?...in particular I need a plain, white keystone! 3) I have seen several shots of the FD2 with a Westinghouse load (in the color guide) but none of the FW1 with a load. Do any of you have photos, or drawings of the FW1 load? (and I wouldn't mind additional photos/drawings of the FD2 loads either) Thanks! Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:49:29 EST Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names --part1_164.907f3b2.29a2a6b9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit list: Some of the towers had only a one letter code. Rich Orr --part1_164.907f3b2.29a2a6b9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit list:

Some of the towers had only a one letter code.

Rich Orr --part1_164.907f3b2.29a2a6b9_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:54:06 EST Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names In a message dated 2/18/02 9:50:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: << In the beginning, the two-letter "names" were used as call signs on the telegraph. There, shorter is better (within limits). >> Actually, some towers had only a single letter - untill they used them all, and did not want to duplicate RR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:15:07 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names Perhaps the most famous were tower F in Sunnyside yard, and Tower A in Penn Station NY. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== VVA249@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/18/02 9:50:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, > wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > > << In the beginning, the two-letter "names" were used as > call signs on the telegraph. There, shorter is better > (within limits). >> > > Actually, some towers had only a single letter - untill they used them all, > and did not want to duplicate > > RR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: [PRR] X-42 mail storage car Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:14:42 -0500 Friends: I have several questions about the X-42 mail storage car: 1 where were these cars built? have any been preserved in museums? 2. What are the ends called with the seven large corrugations? What / who (RR) else used this type of end on cars? 3. what does the pressed steel roof panel pattern look like? what kind of "pattern" is used for the steel roof walk tread? Thanks a lot folks. My partial copy of the original builder's plans don't address the answers to these questions. Lew Matt Synergistic Solutions: Alternative Septic and Energy Systems Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:18:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] X-42 mail storage car Lew, The only X-42 car (of the 10 Built?) that I know (I stumbled on it accidently) that remains today is the one sitting on the property of a Historical Society near Cooperstown NY. I have a few pics (poor) of it on my 3rd website (first page) listed below. Most likely this is a PRR Holidaysburg built car but not sure. I sure would like to see that car in NY restored properly or sent to Strasburg for safe keeping.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:53:27 EST Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names How about "J" tower - preserved at Strasburg Back to the original question - do you suppose that some of the "nickname" towers originally had letter designators - but eventually got officially changed to what everybody called them - or was "ZOO" always that and "Jacks" always that? RE Ross Cleveland My favorites (around here) were "Wandle" (Wheeling and Lake Erie crossing) and "Silver" (Silver Lake) - north of Cuyahoga Falls - when the tower was removed and replaced by a big silver relay box with PC speed lettering declaring it "Silver" I managed to get a chuckle every time I drove by. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennCent" Subject: RE: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:19:39 -0500 There was a tower at Silver Lake? Wow! What did it control? Where exactly was it located? Are there pictures of it anywhere? Don Narris - Canton, Ohio (MP 99, PFW&C RR) "2 miles east of WANDLE" -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of VVA249@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 7:53 PM To: asmiller@mitre.org Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names How about "J" tower - preserved at Strasburg Back to the original question - do you suppose that some of the "nickname" towers originally had letter designators - but eventually got officially changed to what everybody called them - or was "ZOO" always that and "Jacks" always that? RE Ross Cleveland My favorites (around here) were "Wandle" (Wheeling and Lake Erie crossing) and "Silver" (Silver Lake) - north of Cuyahoga Falls - when the tower was removed and replaced by a big silver relay box with PC speed lettering declaring it "Silver" I managed to get a chuckle every time I drove by. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:40:20 EST Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names List. The Middle Division "JACKS" tower was "MU" for Mount Union as per 2-14-1917 interlocking book. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:14:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names List, There are also a few Towers on the PRR system with the same names. "Rockville" and "MG" are used more than once. How many "A" Towers are on the PRR? Dave "ZOO" Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:16:22 EST Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names Dick et.al., Based upon ETT of the Conemaugh Division from 1930 through 1951, it appears that the interlockings and block stations with towers retained the telegraphic code designation. This is the case even when a station is at the same MP. Interlockings added after 1930 and remotely controled have names. So it would seem the letter code is for the physical location where an operator is located rather than the location of an interlocking or block station. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Rotary Snow plow Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:30:57 -0500 Group, Did the Pennsy ever have a Rotary Snow Plow?? I saw someone had one lettered for the Pennsy at a local Train Show over the weekend and I have never saw one in a book. Thanks in advance Sam Vastano McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. PH 724-368-8040 X243 Fax 724-368-9677 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:01:35 -0500 From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 11:16:22AM -0500, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > Dick et.al., > > Based upon ETT of the Conemaugh Division from 1930 through 1951, it appears > that the interlockings and block stations with towers retained the > telegraphic code designation. This is the case even when a station is at the > same MP. Interlockings added after 1930 and remotely controled have names. > So it would seem the letter code is for the physical location where an > operator is located rather than the location of an interlocking or block > station. Rich, it was more complicated than that - or simply random. The towers/interlockings from MG on the hill, through and west of Johnstown, and either all the way to Pittsburgh, or almost (have to check my ETTs...) were never given any non-telegraph-designation names. The 2-letter names persisted all the way into Conrail's elimination of towers from Conpitt Jct. to downtown Pittsburgh, circa 1982. Their more recent remoting of interlockings from Gallitzin (actually, MG) to Johnstown kept the names as well, IIRC, though their remoting of interlockings on the C&P main, Alliance to Cleveland, did not. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:07:13 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] 2002 ANNUAL MEETING PROGRAM AND REGISTRATION INFORMATION For everyone's information the 2002 Annual Meeting Registration Form and Program has been sent as an attachment to all e-NEWS subscribers. This information may also be downloaded from the PRRT&HS e-NEWS Yahoo Groups location - its in the "files" section under "Annual Meeting 2002." This same information will also be posted to the PRRT&HS website at the end of the week. Program and registration information will also be sent to all PRRT&HS members via US Mail in the next couple of weeks. The registration form may be downloaded, printed and submitted. Al - Program Chairman "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] 2002 ANNUAL MEETING PROGRAM AND REGISTRATION INFORMATION Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:07:13 -0500 For everyone's information the 2002 Annual Meeting Registration Form and Program has been sent as an attachment to all e-NEWS subscribers. This information may also be downloaded from the PRRT&HS e-NEWS Yahoo Groups location - its in the "files" section under "Annual Meeting 2002." This same information will also be posted to the PRRT&HS website at the end of the week. Program and registration information will also be sent to all PRRT&HS members via US Mail in the next couple of weeks. The registration form may be downloaded, printed and submitted. Al - Program Chairman ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:35:33 EST Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names In a message dated 02/19/2002 1:02:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: << it was more complicated than that - or simply random. The towers/interlockings from MG on the hill, through and west of Johnstown, and either all the way to Pittsburgh, or almost (have to check my ETTs...) were never given any non-telegraph-designation names. The 2-letter names persisted all the way into Conrail's elimination of towers from Conpitt Jct. to downtown Pittsburgh, circa 1982. Their more recent remoting of interlockings from Gallitzin (actually, MG) to Johnstown kept the names as well, IIRC, though their remoting of interlockings on the C&P main, Alliance to Cleveland, did not. -- Mark >> Mark, Perhaps it was a division descision. The added interlockings on the Conemaugh Division received names -- Toms Run, Alum Bank, Beale etc. While the pre 1930 intelockings and block stations kept the telegrapic symbols. Another mystery. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:26:02 -0500 From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 02:35:33PM -0500, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > Perhaps it was a division decision. The added interlockings on the > Conemaugh Division received names -- Toms Run, Alum Bank, Beale etc. While > the pre 1930 intelockings and block stations kept the telegrapic symbols. Perhaps. Note that in my last email I specifically avoided discussion the Conemaugh, since I am not at all familiar with it. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AVRR436@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:35:19 EST Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names --part1_44.1b53fcd1.29a45757_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding the Conemaugh Mainline, remember that Truxall was a manned tower opened after the line relocation in the late 1940s. How does that fit in the scheme of names vs. codes? In that time period, with the telegraph codes unnecessary, could the use of names been deemed easier to remember as someone else stated in an earlier post? Jim Panza --part1_44.1b53fcd1.29a45757_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding the Conemaugh Mainline, remember that Truxall was a manned tower opened after the line relocation in the late 1940s.  How does that fit in the scheme of names vs. codes?  In that time period, with the telegraph codes unnecessary, could the use of names been deemed easier to remember as someone else stated in an earlier post?

Jim Panza --part1_44.1b53fcd1.29a45757_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "mark taylor" Subject: [PRR] FP-7 CAR BODY "PHASES" Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:06:59 -0500 I am modeling an A-B-A set of FP-7's and I am going to decorate them in the Tuscan red 5-stripe paint scheme. I am modeling lets say 1954-1956. I am using Atlas FP-7's and a Stewart F-7B. On the Atlas loco's I have removed the pilot and replaced it with an Intermountain passenger pilot, removed the number boards and replaced them with Details West number boards and numerous other changes to get them reasonably close to their real life prototypes. My question to the group concerns the roof overhang at the rear of the locomotive. The Atlas models have the overhang, is this correct, I was under the assumption that all later F type units had no overhang. The pictures of the F7-B's In Withers EMD Cab Units book clearly shows no overhang over the rear door.Any information that would solve this dilemma " to overhang or not" would be greatly appreciated. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] FP-7 CAR BODY "PHASES" Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:30:58 -0600 Hi Mark--You do realize, of course, that as soon as you finish this project, Stewart/Intermountain/Genesis/Highliners will announce an FP7? As you have found, photos of the rear of F's are rare. It would be fair to say that if the B's don't have the overhang, A's produced at the same time wouldn't have it either. Although not a primary source, a well researched reservoir of information is the Highliners instruction sheet. For the A they show the overhang may have been deleted as early as "phase Ib" or more or less late 1950. The "phase II" F7's and contemporary FP7's and B's, both 1952, almost certainly would not have the overhang. A comment on your F7B. To correctly model the units delivered with the FP7's, it should have the grills with vertical fins and the vents along the window panel should also have vertical fins. Like an F9B but with the 36" dynamic brake fan. Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:18:50 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Subject: [PRR] H6a #2516 Hi all, Can anyone provide some information for me on H6a #2516? I'm looking for builder, built date and construction number.. Keystone Steam & Electric starts at 1906 but the H6a's were built before then so no luck there... Thanks in advance! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] FP-7 CAR BODY "PHASES" Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:00:56 -0600 There is a photograph in Stauffer's book of a series of locomotives parked in open turntable stalls, one of which is an A unit unit whose rear end is clearly visible and oriented toward the turntable. One nice feature of this phototgraph is that it shows where the rear of the train induction antenna is located. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Hoxie [mailto:steveh@dotstar.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 10:31 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] FP-7 CAR BODY "PHASES" Hi Mark--You do realize, of course, that as soon as you finish this project, Stewart/Intermountain/Genesis/Highliners will announce an FP7? As you have found, photos of the rear of F's are rare. It would be fair to say that if the B's don't have the overhang, A's produced at the same time wouldn't have it either. Although not a primary source, a well researched reservoir of information is the Highliners instruction sheet. For the A they show the overhang may have been deleted as early as "phase Ib" or more or less late 1950. The "phase II" F7's and contemporary FP7's and B's, both 1952, almost certainly would not have the overhang. A comment on your F7B. To correctly model the units delivered with the FP7's, it should have the grills with vertical fins and the vents along the window panel should also have vertical fins. Like an F9B but with the 36" dynamic brake fan. Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:56:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] N8 Question. The Last One, hopefully Lists, I am getting closer to finishing my 1:29th scale N8 Cabin. While going back and looking at photos of this class thru the years I noticed many N8's have the tool box applied to to underbody, many do not. Were all built with this applied and later removed or was this a random installation option? My N8 will represnt 1953ish. I opted not to install this box. Should I go back and build one to be more correct? I am modeling 478150 if someone just happens to have a pic of this N8, Thanks again,..... Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:56:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] EQ=N8 Question. The Last One, hopefully Lists, I am getting closer to finishing my 1:29th scale N8 Cabin. While going back and looking at photos of this class thru the years I noticed many N8's have the tool box applied to to underbody, many do not. Were all built with this applied and later removed or was this a random installation option? My N8 will represnt 1953ish. I opted not to install this box. Should I go back and build one to be more correct? I am modeling 478150 if someone just happens to have a pic of this N8, Thanks again,..... Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:06:10 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Question. The Last One, hopefully I think you'll find that the N-8 tool box was a one side only deal - in my looking at photos - I once figured out which side it was - but I now forget what it related to - to figure out the proper orientation - I'd presume all N-8's had one - but for the number of years I've studdied the PRR I know how dangerous that can be. One more question - was it really a tool box - or was it "Train Phone" equipment - like the door cut into the N-5's? Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:58:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Question. The Last One, hopefully Dick, The term "Tool Box" as I used was used loosely. I have heard both ways that this box was for train phone equipment, probably the batteries, or used as a tool box. I believe it was for train phone equipment due to the fact it does not show up in photos of N8s late in life and minus train phone antenna. There is a pic in the PRR/Long Island Caboose book that does show one with the box and no antenna but this may mean the box didn't get a chance to be emoved yet? By the way, the box sits on the same side as the chimney stack. More photo seeking in my future tonight to see if I can come up with an early Circle Keystone N8 with antenna and NO box. If not, I probably have to fabricate one for my model, Dang!!!......Thanks for taking the time to help,.... Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] The last PRR engine Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:38:33 +0000 Does anybody know which engine was the last one to retain PRR paint after the mergers took place? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] The last PRR engine Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:32:11 +0000 If that paint job is just from washing away the grime then lets hose down everything out there and see what shows up. :-) Norm Bell > The 5809 we just washed away all the grime that accumulated over the > years. > > > Bennett > > ndbprr@att.net wrote: > > > > Does anybody know which engine was the last one to > > retain PRR paint after the mergers took place? > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Kisala Douglas K 1Lt 31 OSS/INW Subject: [PRR] H6a 2516 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:19:44 +0100 Hello list, According to Edson's PRR All-time Steam Roster, PRR H6a 2516 was built by Baldwin in November 1903, their construction number 23110. She was renumbered in March 1904 to PRR 897. The engine was scrapped in December 1928. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:36:02 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Those Signal Corps photos, part 5 (I think), with genuine To avoid repeating a bunch of characters which are constant, note that the images are all at http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/xx/yyy.jpg where xx and yyy are numbers. I will recite only the numbers. xx=23 yyy= 020 Someone orating, NYNH&H boxcar in background 059-069 Trucks prepared for shipping. No RR content. Wait, there may be a flat car in the background of 062. And a gondola in 063! And 065! 096,097 Maritime catastrophe; coal pier, hopper cars in background. xx=24 yyy= 075,076 Gondola cars beside piles of lumber. 088-090 A dock on fire and the aftermath. Warped RR cars in the ruins. 100 Gondolas loaded with scrap wood. (See 075,076 above.) xx=25 yyy= 049 Bunch of troops in front of a dimly-seen RR coach. 052 Another much like 049 xx=26 yyy= 094 In the background, one chute and bin of a coal pier. Weak, I admit, but the only shred of RR content in the whole directory. xx=27 yyy= 021 Ship's crane lifting a RR crane. 028 Hulls and other nautical stuff on flat cars. Round-roof double-door box cars (Seaboard?) in background. 029 US Army boat on flat car, end of PRR box car. 032 Tank cars, or tanks for tank cars on dock beside ship. 034 The coal pier with freighter. 038 Ocean-side view of C&O pier. 082 Anonymous hopper cars in far background. 084 Even less distinct view of distant hopper cars. 103 Building a new pier. Box car on pier. Wonder if this is related to the fire back there in /24/088? 104 Like 103, but now there's a gondola on the track. 105 Further progress on the new pier, gondola still there. 114 A sawmill, of all things. Note that the carriage has flanged wheels which run on rails, thus introducing RR content. 118 Workin' on the railroad. xx=28 yyy= 066 Interior of a coach. xx=29 yyy= 006 GI grafitti on coach. xx=29 yyy= 044 RR cars (hopper, coal gondola?) in background. 078 GI's posed in doorway of coach. xx=30 yyy= 039 German 4-wheel tank car. 044 Tugboats, box car in background. 054 Grain elevator? owned by N&W Ry, the PRR subsidiary. 057 Not RR related, but food for thought. Someone was not happy, I'll bet. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:56:58 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Report on the Op Session on the Cornwall Railroad 2/16 Hello Listers, On Saturday, February 16th, 2002 at 1:30 PM the Cornwall railroad had it's second op session using car cards. We had a total of 9 people attending the session. Steve Mallery was our dispatcher and James Mattern was our Lebanon Yardmaster. John Berger came up from Maryland to join us and the rest of the crewmembers were, Jeff Warner, Nevin Byers, Larry Reynolds, Dean "Knothead" Stoki, Bob Lyter, and myself. We have just finished installing NCE Switch It stationary decoders to control our switches remotely from the dispatcher's desk. We have a total of 9 of 14 motorized switches installed on the mainline. Most of the switch motors have just been installed using Tortoise Stall motors and a new style linkage developed by Dick McEvoy on his Barneytown & Scupperville railroad. Using this linkage I can throw the switch using a laptop that talks to the loconet and the results are echoed on my other system that runs my signaling system via Bruce Chubb's C/MRI and my microswitches that report switch position to the interface. This system permits Steve to monitor traffic, signal aspects, and switch positions via a graphic CTC panel. The system had not been tested under an op session's condition and we weren't sure how good it would perform. Until this session most switches on the mainline were operated with Caboose Industries ground throws. When Steve pointed out that he would prefer to operate the switches from the dispatcher's desk, I started looking for a solution that would not require me to run tons of wiring back to the dispatcher's desk and make it impossible to operate the layout without a dispatcher. The session started right after a brief overview on the operating rules for the session. Name tags were handed out, radios were turned on and tested, throttles were plugged in and the session officially started. The first order of business was to classify the cars that clogged the Lebanon yards from the last session. James Mattern directed his yard crew #1 like a conductor of the Boston Symphony. His #2 crew, me, was still making sure the train orders were understood and answering questions from the new crew members. Several trains were pre-staged in both Tamaqua and Conewago. Steve handed out the crew assignments and people started to focus on their individual jobs. One of the first trains started was DL1, a turn starting in Lickdale and returning later as LD2. The industries in Lickdale must be drilled and all cars with car cards facing the aisles must be picked up for delivery to Lebanon for reclassification. Motive power and a caboose was picked up at the Lickdale engine facilities. Jeff Warner and John Berger were crewing together since it was John's first time as an operator on the Cornwall. Jeff immediately saw there were a lot of cars to be picked up and questioned the sanity of pulling all of the cars that were designated. I told him that the problem would be the yardmaster's and the road crews only do what their orders dictate. He ended up pulling almost 23 cars. During that time several through trains were assigned and were rolling along the mainline. Radio traffic was cut back since the yardmaster now had a direct phone line to the dispatcher and no longer had to wait until the radio was clear. A 25 car freight, TP1,was assigned out of Tamaqua. The crew climbed aboard the lead EMD SD7 Demonstrator #990, part of a two unit consist with #991 acting as the trailing unit. Coupler slack was taken out and the long freight started to roll toward Lickdale where DL1 was working the industries and utilizing the passenger siding to hold his pickups. TP1 rumbled across the gate and entered Lickdale at the West end. TP1 proceeded to the signal at Lick and waited until the dispatcher gave them permission to occupy the mainline to Cornwall Junction. The crew received permission to move and as the lead SD7 passed the signal at Lick, the signal changed from a bright green to a red indicating the block was now occupied. At Cornwall Junction the first turnout was aligned to permit TP1 to cross over to the PRR highline track #1 on it's way to Conewago. PRR position lights changed from vertical to horizontal and the train entered Cornwall Junction. The two units barely grunted as they took the train up the 1.75% grade to Ridge. The signal at Ridge indicated that the track was aligned for the main and that EL1, a PRR merchandise freight with PRR 373, a 2-8-8-2 from Conewago was holding the main at Bank waiting for TP1 to clear Colebrook and enter the approach tracks for Conewago Yard.The caboose markers on TP1 passed beyond the fouling point at Bank and the signal in front of EL1 went from horizontal to vertical as the switch was aligned by Dispatcher Mallery.He then gave EL1 permission to leave the siding and proceed to Lebanon. These scenes were repeated time and again during the next three hours of the session. During this time 24 trains were run including several light engine moves and only one scheduled train was not run at the end of the session. No major incidents occurred during the session, a few cars with wheel and coupler problems got bad-ordered and will be repaired by the next op session in June. One other locomotive showed some problems but they were cleared up when the almost-black wheels were cleaned and restored to their silver shine. During this time I was occupied by my duties as Lebanon yard crew #2. Lebanon is a double-ended yard and I was constantly pulling cars from the yard tracks to make up outbound trains, getting cabooses or cabins for those trains and taking inbound trains left on the arrival tracks to open yard tracks where they too could be sorted for the next destination of the cars. My counterpart Lebanon yard crew #1 was busy at the other end of the yard performing the same duties under the direction of the yardmaster. At 4:30 PM the announcement was made that the session was officially over and I thanked the crews for their participation. The crewmembers that were able to stay were invited for Pizza at the local Pizza shop and a small critique of the session would take place while we ate. All in all, the session was a rousing success and no failures occured during the session. Everybody said that they were happy with the way the session went and a short list of to-do's was gathered for the upcoming work sessions. The Cornwall will not have another op session until June of this year. I am opening up my layout for the PRRT&HS convention on May 3rd, in Camp Hill, Pa. Lots of cosmetic work is planned for the layout and I want it to show all of the progress we have made in the past two years since we hosted the last convention tour in 2000. I expect to see a lot of my email friends from the other groups I belong to. The op sessions have given me the incentive to constantly work on and improve my railroad. If the crews have fun operating my layout, my goal of creating a miniature transportation system has been accomplished. I may never have a layout featured in MR or RMC but I'm not after fame or recocgnition, I just want to see my trains and equipment used in the manner which they were intended, not stored away in a box in a "collection" waiting to be sold at a profit for my kid's college tuition. Let my kid earn her money like I did I just want to enjoy my trains and my friend's company. Regards, Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:28:17 EST Subject: [PRR] X42 In a message dated 2/19/02 1:15:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Subject: Re: [PRR] X-42 mail storage car From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:18:09 -0500 (EST) Lew, The only X-42 car (of the 10 Built?) that I know (I stumbled on it accidently) that remains today is the one sitting on the property of a Historical Society near Cooperstown NY. I have a few pics (poor) of it on my 3rd website (first page) listed below. Most likely this is a PRR Holidaysburg built car but not sure. I sure would like to see that car in NY restored properly or sent to Strasburg for safe keeping.....Gary >> I believe the ten X42's were built in 1950. Wouldn't that be a little early for a Hollidaysburg build? I've assumed the shop was Altoona -- can we verify? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:28:20 EST Subject: [PRR] Come visit Tower A Cincinnati In a message dated 2/19/02 1:15:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Subject: Re: PRR Tower names, was Re: [PRR] PRR yard names From: "Dave Hopson" Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:14:23 -0500 (EST) List, There are also a few Towers on the PRR system with the same names. "Rockville" and "MG" are used more than once. How many "A" Towers are on the PRR? Dave "ZOO" Hopson >> The one at Cincinnati Union Terminal would be a nonobvious addition to this list -- and it's still open to visitors. Tower A is a very large room atop the back of the "half dome" of the Art Deco CUT station building. It will be open when PRRT&HS meets in Cincy in 2004, and is open just about every Saturday morning if you're passing through. Among the attractions: 1. Its windows on 3 sides overlook the Southern and B&O yards in the Mill Creek valley (yeah, I know those railroads have new names. So what?). Great trainwatching (and photography through windows that open) without trespassing. 2. It's still got its model board up -- I don't know how big it is, but it shows the whole main station trackage as of 1933. And it lights. 3. It's the meeting room, museum, and library of the Cincinnati Railroad Club, several of whom are former PRR employees. There's also a bookstore. We're singularly fortunate to have CUT Tower A still available. One more reason to come to Cincinnati in 2004. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:11:51 EST Subject: [PRR] List Member --part1_24.2136274a.29a64c17_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List member with the address starting "pennsynut@..." Please contact me off list. Evan Leisey --part1_24.2136274a.29a64c17_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List member with the address starting "pennsynut@..."  Please contact me off list.

Evan Leisey --part1_24.2136274a.29a64c17_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AHARTPRR137@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:49:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] X42 Hi Rick and all, A 3/4 view of X42 2542 with passenger lettering and numbers plus a double stripe (E-18846) had the remark "PAINT ALT..E451" on the end of the car. Thus we can assume that the car was built in Altoona. The lettering also says BLT 10-50. Another photo of X42 2542 in the freight ball paint scheme (E-18427) has a built date on the car of 8-50. A close look at the photo shows what appears to be a slight difference in the paint around the last 2 in 2542. Could the car in the photo have been renumbered to 2542? Best regards, Andy Hart, PRRT&HS #92 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:07:57 -0500 Subject: [PRR] MSTS Microsoft Train Simulator Are there any out there who utilize MSTS? There are some of us who are looking for PRR rolling stock and locos as well as routes for MSTS which are PRR? Does any one have such material. Currently, for excample, the 1938 Broadway Limited and GG-1 is available to go up and down the NEC. There is some rumors cirulating that the Horseshow Curve is being programmed. If there are any one with files they care to share, material can be uploaded to www.train-sim.com. All files are free. Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Professor of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 Editor Administrans, DIR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] X37 box car Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:37:00 +0000 I was checking out the NEB&W web page yesterday and they have a side and end view builders photos of this car in their freight car section. they are black and white and the detail is decent considering the age of the photos. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: [PRR] Weathering With Acrylics Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:14:49 -0500 I have been slowly weaning myself off organic solvent paints for general model painting but I am not happy at all with my initial attempts at airbrush weathering with acrylics. I am just not satisfied with the coverage or my ability to lay down an even thin coating of a weathering color when using Polly Scale paints and airbrush thinner. Somone mentioned that weathering should be done with alcohol as the thinner but what type? Any advice list members can provide would be appreciated. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:28:13 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Weathering With Acrylics >I have been slowly weaning myself off organic solvent paints for >general model painting but I am not happy at all with my initial >attempts at airbrush weathering with acrylics. I am just not satisfied with >the coverage or my ability to lay down an even thin coating of a >weathering color when using Polly Scale paints and airbrush >thinner. Somone mentioned that weathering should be done with >alcohol as the thinner but what type? Any advice list members can >provide would be appreciated. > >Frank Brua Frank for weathering, use Poly Scale airbrush thinner or 70% isopropanol. Dilute the paint at least 1:1, and preferable 10:1 (thinner to paint). This will go on very nicely. I just weathered an IM 10000 gal tank car by: 1) airbrushed 1:1 thinned "tarnished black" over the entire tank until it almost obscured the lettering. 2) airbrushed 1:1 thinned "oily black" over the dome and center section 3) airbrushed 1:1 thinned "mud" on the bottom and end of the car for thrown mud 4) and I will finish this weekend with a dilute (bottle of thinner to brushful of paint) was of rust over the entire tank I have also used washes/brushes with success. I did this by making the wash in the bottom of an old egg carton...a jot of thinner, a brushload of paint and your off! The thinned paint often does not stick well and beads, so I continuously stroke it out with the brush as it dries (the alcohol evaporates withing seconds). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:30:55 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Meeting & Models Howdy y'all, If you are a modeler, please read on, if you are not, feel free to ignore this message. I WANT YOUR MODELS!!! (I'm not yelling......yet ) Keith Thompson has agreed to chair what has been known as the "contest room" at this year's PRRT&HS convention. I have agreed to help (I'm the gofer ). My first "contribution" has been to suggest re-naming the room as the "Model Room" and de-emphazing the contest aspect. I've gone to a modeling meet in Cocoa Beach Forida these past two Januarys, where slightly less than 200 participants displayed around 800 models!!! Now we all know that the "contest room" at the PRRT&HS meeting hasn't come close to that, but I think we could... Now is your chance to show that modelers ARE important to the PRRT&HS. I think we should display our side of the hobby to the rest of the members of the PRRT&HS. I WANT YOUR MODELS!!! (am I getting through yet?) I'm not big on contests...you don't need to worry about a model being "good enough" or not being scratchbuilt, or not having infinite detail, or any other EXCUSE...your model will be welcome. Incomplete modeling projects that show us something are welcome. Commercial models with weathering are welcome...all we ask is that your model be related to the PRR! I WANT YOUR MODELS!!! (am I going to have to BEG?) I hereby CHALLENGE each member of this list who models the PRR, and who is attending the PRRT&HS meeting this year to bring at least one model for display. If you don't think you have anything that you would display...you've got 70 days to change that...more than enough time to build a Sunshine or Westerfield car, finish that Bowser engine, assemble that n-scale passenger car kit, build the New Freedom Depot, or whatever floats your boat! Now some details (most remain to be worked out, but we're getting there quickly). Some folks, like me, have to fly to attend, and the thought of carrying model trains through post 9-11 security is a little scary. Jerry Britton, our listmeister, has agreed to serve as a delivery site for UPS shipments of models. Please use the following address, and let Jerry know to expect the package (jerry@pennsyrr.com): Merchandise Service PMB 191 185 Newberry Commons Etters PA 17319 I promise that I will continue to harrass you until I know that the room will be overflowing with models. If you have an questions, please contact either Keith (kbt@bit-net.com) or myself (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu). Happy Modeling Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:57:56 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Those Signal Corps photos, part 5 (I think), with --- "Donald E. Harper, Jr" wrote: > I tried that web site and got a "NOT FOUND" message. > Is it an old address? The address of which he speaks: > > http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/xx/yyy.jpg where I've had spells of not being able to get to it also. It seems to be somewhat unstable. "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again." But best to wait for a few hours or 'til the next day. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] Weathering With Acrylics Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:10:34 -0500 Frank, We have had good success using the Poly Scale paints with their Airbrush Thinner. The key is to apply them as very thin "washes" of color. After we stir the bottle of paint, we put just enough paint in a clean bottle to cover the bottom of the jar (3/4 to 1 ounce jar). Fill the rest of the bottle with airbrush thinner. We find that it is easier if we have six or eight cars or locos to weather at the same time. We also use three or four colors when weathering. The drill is to put a light coat of finish onthe first model, then move to the second and so on down the line. By the time you finish the last model, the first one should be dry enough for a second coat of either the same color or a different color. By the way, if you are using more than one color, it is not necessary to clean the airbrush between colors other than running a little airbrush cleaner through the brush. Keep going until you are satisfied. You will also find that having several cars for comparison will aid you in getting the "right" amount of weathering for each car. One of the effects I like is to blend the lettering into the car. For example, on a boxcar red car, spray a weathering coat of boxcar red over the entire car. This will give the effect of the paint starting to bleed through the lettering. I hope this helps. Dennis mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com Featuring over 10,000 IN-STOCK model railroad items 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:22:47 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Those Signal Corps photos, part 5 (I think), with Bob sez: >To avoid repeating a bunch of characters which are >constant, note that the images are all at >http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/xx/yyy.jpg where xx >and yyy are numbers. I will recite only the numbers. >xx=27 >yyy= >103 Building a new pier. Box car on pier. Wonder if >this is related to the fire back there in /24/088? >104 Like 103, but now there's a gondola on the track. Um, and Bob, there's that car ferry right behind the pier for some additional RR content...actually, looks like 2 car ferries and they sure look PRR! To get to the picture go to http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/27/104.jpg Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Those Signal Corps photos, part 5 (I think), with --- "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > Um, and Bob, there's that car ferry right behind the > pier for some > additional RR content...actually, looks like 2 car > ferries and they sure > look PRR! > > To get to the picture go to > http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/27/104.jpg > Oh my goodness, how did I miss that? I can't attest to the PRR part, but there certainly is a car ferry in full view, and another partly in from the right. Perhaps I should do these things other than at 1:00 AM. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Meeting & Models Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:48:01 +0000 I have a couple of questions: 1. I assume that if we ship them for display we would have to include a return label and the cost to ship them back again. 2. Who will take the time to input all the data for the contest? 3. Who assumes responsibility for security? 4. Who would be responsible fro any damage? Nor trying to be negative here as I have a couple of cars I would like to display. Just trying to be sure I know the rules. Thanks > Howdy y'all, > > If you are a modeler, please read on, if you are not, feel free to ignore > this message. > > I WANT YOUR MODELS!!! (I'm not yelling......yet ) > > Keith Thompson has agreed to chair what has been known as the "contest > room" at this year's PRRT&HS convention. I have agreed to help (I'm the > gofer ). My first "contribution" has been to suggest re-naming the room > as the "Model Room" and de-emphazing the contest aspect. I've gone to a > modeling meet in Cocoa Beach Forida these past two Januarys, where slightly > less than 200 participants displayed around 800 models!!! Now we all know > that the "contest room" at the PRRT&HS meeting hasn't come close to that, > but I think we could... > > Now is your chance to show that modelers ARE important to the PRRT&HS. I > think we should display our side of the hobby to the rest of the members of > the PRRT&HS. > > I WANT YOUR MODELS!!! (am I getting through yet?) > > I'm not big on contests...you don't need to worry about a model being "good > enough" or not being scratchbuilt, or not having infinite detail, or any > other EXCUSE...your model will be welcome. Incomplete modeling projects > that show us something are welcome. Commercial models with weathering are > welcome...all we ask is that your model be related to the PRR! > > I WANT YOUR MODELS!!! (am I going to have to BEG?) > > I hereby CHALLENGE each member of this list who models the PRR, and who is > attending the PRRT&HS meeting this year to bring at least one model for > display. If you don't think you have anything that you would > display...you've got 70 days to change that...more than enough time to > build a Sunshine or Westerfield car, finish that Bowser engine, assemble > that n-scale passenger car kit, build the New Freedom Depot, or whatever > floats your boat! > > Now some details (most remain to be worked out, but we're getting there > quickly). Some folks, like me, have to fly to attend, and the thought of > carrying model trains through post 9-11 security is a little scary. Jerry > Britton, our listmeister, has agreed to serve as a delivery site for UPS > shipments of models. Please use the following address, and let Jerry know > to expect the package (jerry@pennsyrr.com): > > Merchandise Service > PMB 191 > 185 Newberry Commons > Etters PA 17319 > > I promise that I will continue to harrass you until I know that the room > will be overflowing with models. > > If you have an questions, please contact either Keith (kbt@bit-net.com) or > myself (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu). > > Happy Modeling > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:59:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Meeting & Models From: Jerry Britton On 2/21/02 1:48 PM, ndbprr@att.net (ndbprr@att.net) wrote: > I have a couple of questions: > 1. I assume that if we ship them for display we would > have to include a return label and the cost to ship them > back again. > 2. Who will take the time to input all the data for the > contest? > 3. Who assumes responsibility for security? > 4. Who would be responsible fro any damage? > > Nor trying to be negative here as I have a couple of > cars I would like to display. Just trying to be sure I > know the rules. Thanks Bruce asked me if I could receive the models, being only 15 minutes away. I agreed to do this, but I did not volunteering to deal with return shipping. There is a Mail Boxes Etc near the convention site (5 minutes or so). ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRRT&HS Meeting & Models Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:11:29 -0500 Reply to ndbprr (whoever you may be) What Bruce is saying is if you are not driving to the meeting, you can ship your models to Jerry, pick them up at the meeting and enter them. There-by avoiding the hassle of getting them through airport security. Bruce, In the model club I belong to we have a category called N.I.C.E. Not In Competition Excellence. This is for people who do not want to enter the competition. Maybe this can be stressed to attendees. I'm sure allot of people just don't want to enter the contest so they don't bring anything. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:47:31 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Those Signal Corps photos, part 5 (I think), It does look like a PRR car float but the tug is light colored not the expected marine maroon or whatever its called. . . and this doesn't look like Little Creek. The photo caption says " Overall view of Pier 8, HRPE, showing progress of reconstruction to 12 March 1945. The Pier was totally destroyed on the night of 17 December 1944 by fire caused by a leaking gasoline tank ignited by a spark. It was rebuilt and in use within seventy-five days, the first shiploading being 3 March 1945." HRPE is Hampton Roads Port of embarkation or Newport News. The ferry is either a C&O float or else the PRR boys are really lost. I will check with the C&OHS to see if they know about the ferries. Jim McDaniel, sometimes lost as well. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Weathering With Acrylics Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:13:34 -0500 Bruce and Dennis gave you some good advice about how to airbrush weathering. You can use any kind of alcohol to dilute the acrylic model colors EXCEPT methanol. Methyl alcohol is poisonous and cannot be made non-poisonous. Do not get it on your skin or eyes or breathe the fumes or vapors. You CAN use Vodka (100 proof is 50% alcohol and 50% water) to thin your paints and the fumes and vapors are not harmful since they are of a natural, organic food (grain or potato) base. "Drinking" alcohol is the safest chemical alcohol for airbrush use. Isopropyl alcohol is a form of wood alcohol. It is consistently used for "external use only" topical medications for human bodies but should not be breathed either as fumes or vapors. (Knowing some of its nasty side affects, I don't use any topical medicine that contains Isopropyl alcohol, even though it is a commercially available product.) Denatured alcohol is grain alcohol that has been chemically altered to render it unpalatable and undrinkable. I don't know of any danger to humans from this form of alcohol. Have fun and stay healthy. Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "parkvarieties" To: "PRR- Talk" Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:14 PM Subject: [PRR] Weathering With Acrylics > I have been slowly weaning myself off organic solvent paints for > general model painting but I am not happy at all with my initial > attempts at airbrush weathering with acrylics. I am just not satisfied with > the coverage or my ability to lay down an even thin coating of a > weathering color when using Polly Scale paints and airbrush > thinner. Somone mentioned that weathering should be done with > alcohol as the thinner but what type? Any advice list members can > provide would be appreciated. > > Frank Brua > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:26:38 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Meeting & Models ndbprr@att.net writes: >I have a couple of questions: >1. I assume that if we ship them for display we would >have to include a return label and the cost to ship them >back again. As Jerry indicates, he's willing to receive (hopefully we won't swamp him!) packages. As for shipping back the other way, my suggestions are the Mail Boxes Etc Jerry mentioned and having the hotel ship them. I am far more confident about shipping FROM the hotel than to it, although you are welcome to try . If shipping from the hotel, you will almost certainly need to provide a paid label. Remember that the meeting finishes up on Sunday, so plan around this if you need to as I don't know Mail Boxes Etc hours (although I will try to find them out for y'all) >2. Who will take the time to input all the data for the >contest? Contest, what contest? (just kidding, although I personally find that the contest is a major reason people fail to bring models). We are in the process of developing an entry form. This isn't the NMRA and I am not going to enter tons of data...most likely we will ask for a 3x5 card with Modeler, Model Description (e.g. class, modifications, etc...), Notes (e.g. modeling techniques, unique features, etc), Category (for Judging eg. Motive Power, Passenger Car, Freight Car, MOW, Train, Structure). A check box will be provided to indicate that you want to participate in the contest. This card will be displayed next to the model. YOU DO NOT NEED TO ENTER THE CONTEST TO DISPLAY YOUR MODELS. About the only data we plan on "inputing" will be entry number and name. I hope we're swamped! We could ask that the cards be returned to us to allow us to publish the "winners" detailed info in the keystone. >3. Who assumes responsibility for security? Keith (hehe, I knew there was a reason not to volunteer!) In reality, we all need to help. The model room will be locked whenever there is no-one to man it. Keith and I want to participate in all the other aspects of the meeting, so we need volunteers to man the room for an hour or two each. Duties would be simple...watch the door, watch the tables, summarily execute anyone who touches a model whose nametag doesn't match the entry. >4. Who would be responsible fro any damage? While on site, the insurance obtained by PRRT&HS should cover the models, however we will double check on that. If not, the NMRA covers any "NMRA Sponsored" meet and we can explore that if we need to. While in the hands of UPS, its between you and them. For the period of time between receipt by Jerry and your retrieval of the package from one of us at the hotel, I would consider the package uninsured. I will not, nor will I ask Jerry to assume liability for doing someone a favor. However, I will see if the insurance can be extended to this phase. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRRT&HS Meeting & Models Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:39:43 -0500 Bruce, You need to get your hands on the old entry form because it has a waiver that shoudl be signed by the displayer. It was drawn up by the Prrt&hs's own Philadelphia lawyer. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:53:19 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Those Signal Corps photos, part 5 (I think), --- "James L. McDaniel" wrote: > It does look like a PRR car float but the tug is > light colored not the > expected marine maroon or whatever its called. . . DRTE. Dark Red Tug Enamel, sometimes improperly called Brunswick Maroon. > and this doesn't look > like Little Creek. > > The photo caption says " Overall view of Pier 8, > HRPE, showing > progress of reconstruction to 12 March 1945. The > Pier was totally > destroyed on the night of 17 December 1944 by fire > caused by a leaking > gasoline tank ignited by a spark. It was rebuilt > and in use within > seventy-five days, the first shiploading being 3 > March 1945." Ha! So it was related to the fire. (Maybe if I read the captions myself... Nah.) > > HRPE is Hampton Roads Port of embarkation or Newport > News. Yep. A couple photos of the sign at the entrance have gone by (but since there was no RR content (even by my loose standards), no report from me). > The ferry is > either a C&O float or else the PRR boys are really > lost. I will check > with the C&OHS to see if they know about the > ferries. I do recall that during WW2 various odd things happened. N&W 6-axle coal gons on the PRR main, B&LE (I think) locomotives on PRR main. Green pullmans in PRR passenger trains (gasp). War requirements may have led to unusual patterns of movement on the water as well as through Latrobe. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:57:55 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Those Signal Corps photos, Part 6, with fuel for the car To avoid repeating a bunch of characters which are constant, note that the images are all at http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/xx/yyy.jpg where xx and yyy are numbers. I will recite only the numbers. xx=31 yyy= 004 Happy smiling soldiers standing beside a coach which appears to have the letters PM on its side. Just when did C&O acquire Pere Marquette? 017 Still more soldiers posed beside dimly visible coach. 019 Soldiers using duffle bags to hide a C&O coach from us. 034 Antique C&O passenger equipment, coal pier in background. 042 Interior of some pier, passenger cars on right? 071 Baggage car door. 074 Officers posed beside a Something and Ohio coach on a hot day. xx=32 yyy= 018 Coaches, outside for a change. 023 Troops marching in front of hopper cars. 025 More troops marching in front of hopper cars, this time with a band. 026 C&O coach 542 and another. 076 At the loading dock. Or is it the unloading dock? 086 Assorted freight cars on dock beside ship. 096 Tanks (the army kind) on flat cars. 098 Without doubt, this building is chock full of Varney, Megow, and Laconia kits of PRR cars in HO scale. xx=33 yyy= 010 If it weren't for the shadowy "KE" and the even fainter "53", you wouldn't know there's a coach behind these generals. 031 Parachute soldiers posed in doorway of coach. 063 Car float/barge/ferry loaded with diseasels of two types. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:56:45 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Car floats The comments about car floats in and around Newport News started me wondering. In places where multiple railroads used car ferries or floats, were they interchangable? That is, could the PRR floats dock at the C&O pier? Not that I'm supposing any sort of formal interchange standard, just a de facto standard that would allow one company's equipment to use another company's facilities in case of need. Just wondering. Things maritime are completely foreign to me. No oceans in western PA, you know. (Although these days, the Port of Pitsburgh is busier than the Port of Philadelphia. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Car floats Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:59:50 -0500 Bob:- Interesting thought..... In New York Harbor, PRR interchanged via carfloat with NH, LIRR, NYD. BEDT, NYConn, Jay St Conn as well as its own float bridges on Manhattan. The Bronx and Long Island float bridges also received cars from ERIE, DLW, NYC, CNJ, B&O, and LV, so at least in New York Harbor there must have been a common standard. PRR had carfloat operations in Baltimore, Philadelphia, and Norfolk as well. It operated a line jointly with the WM, the Chesapeake & Curtis Bay, in Ballamer, so they must have common floats there as well. Anyone have plans??? Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert netzlof" To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:56 PM Subject: [PRR] Car floats > The comments about car floats in and around Newport > News started me wondering. In places where multiple > railroads used car ferries or floats, were they > interchangable? > > That is, could the PRR floats dock at the C&O pier? > Not that I'm supposing any sort of formal interchange > standard, just a de facto standard that would allow > one company's equipment to use another company's > facilities in case of need. > > Just wondering. Things maritime are completely foreign > to me. No oceans in western PA, you know. (Although > these days, the Port of Pitsburgh is busier than the > Port of Philadelphia. > > > > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "James Taverna" Subject: [PRR] N2sa Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:34:35 -0500 I am asking the group for some help in developing information on the N2sa. I am an O scaler and in the middle of a project to scratch build a model of this engine. I have most of what I need but I cannot get any information on the size and shape of the sand and steam domes after the PRR modified the engines with Belpaire fireboxes. Does anyone know of a drawing or a top down picture that could give me some insight? If you could post the picture, that would be great. If you know of a drawing, even better. If you have an HO model of the engine, how did they model the sand dome? I am trying to determine if it is round like the N1sa, or oblong like the M1a. Thanks for your help, Jim Taverna _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:47:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] N2sa Jim, The N2sa retained the domes it was built with (all but the rear). It was a USRA design so maybe any USRA dome dimensions will match the N2sa. If this is true, try finding a heavy 2-10-2 or similar USRA drawing. Kalmbach published a book of plans didn't they?. Just direguard that third dome. Peensy removed it so the Belpair could be installed properly........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:20:14 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRRT&HS meeting and models Jerry, Are Mail Boxes Etc. open on Sunday's? This might cause some problems if the guys shipping models to the contest can't send them back because those types of places are closed. The guys might want to make sure they can get their models returned safely and unless they are planning to leave on the following Monday, they might not be able to make shipping arrangements on a Sunday. I'm not trying to create a problem but checking this out before the convention might not be a bad idea. Nick Kulp >Bruce asked me if I could receive the models, being only 15 >minutes away. I >agreed to do this, but I did not volunteering to deal with >return shipping. >There is a Mail Boxes Etc near the convention site (5 minutes >or so). http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:57:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRRT&HS meeting and models From: Jerry Britton On 2/22/02 7:20 AM, Nick Kulp (caseyj@igateway.com) wrote: > Are Mail Boxes Etc. open on Sunday's? This might cause some problems if the > guys shipping models to the contest can't send them back because those types > of places are closed. The guys might want to make sure they can get their > models > returned safely and unless they are planning to leave on the following Monday, > they might not be able to make shipping arrangements on a Sunday. I'm not > trying > to create a problem but checking this out before the convention might not be > a bad idea. > It's up to the individual franchise. You have a valid point, though, as my own MBE is not open on Sundays. My involvement (in this regard) ends with receiving packages. Bruce Smith is helping with the Model Room and asked me to do this favor. I am only 15 minutes away, and it will not be that big of a deal. However, in the days that follow the convention, I am swamped with filling orders, ordering additional items for special orders, processing credit cards, etc. I won't see the light of day for a week. (And I thank PRRT&HS members for that!) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRRT&HS meeting and models Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:00:02 -0500 > Are Mail Boxes Etc. open on Sunday's? Listers, If Keith ends the model contest between 3 and 3:30pm (which will give him enough time to count the votes) there would be plenty of time to pick up your model and get it off to Mailboxes on Saturday. Across the street from the Hotel is the Camp Hill Post Office. Jerry do you know if they are one of the branches that is open late on Sat. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tom Mahon Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRRT&HS meeting and models Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:20:47 -0500 I have been following this thread since the beginning. If using MBE is your preference, I would suggest that you contact them ahead of time about the possible large rush late on a Saturday. Someone may also want to consider inquiring about what other things could be done to provide them with the business and the attendees with the convenience of the services. You might find out that they could be accommodating. Regards, Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH -----Original Message----- From: Chany, Christopher [mailto:cpc1@westchestergov.com] Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:00 AM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRRT&HS meeting and models > Are Mail Boxes Etc. open on Sunday's? Listers, If Keith ends the model contest between 3 and 3:30pm (which will give him enough time to count the votes) there would be plenty of time to pick up your model and get it off to Mailboxes on Saturday. Across the street from the Hotel is the Camp Hill Post Office. Jerry do you know if they are one of the branches that is open late on Sat. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:53:26 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRRT&HS meeting and models Ok Gang, I guess I started this thread about sending models to the PRRT&HS meeting, but I'll ask that the emails go off list. This way, I can collect your ideas, research the possibilities, pass them on to Keith, and then get the information back to you with a minimum of confusion. As the motto of my other hobby goes..."Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew"...I WILL find a way to ship your stuff (and MINE) home, even if it means staying until Monday to make sure it goes direct to MBE (and since there are a lot of neat tours on tap for Sunday...that may not be a bad idea!!) I appreciate the very good suggestions that a number of you have made. Keep 'em coming! BTW, only 69 modeling days left...what are you working on this weekend? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:30:44 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] G26 gons I said: >BTW, only 69 modeling days left...what are you working on this weekend? I'm finishing up (decaling) an ECW HO scale G26 gon. I know that some of these got National B1 trucks from Rob's page. Do any of you have specific numbers for G26 gons with these trucks? BTW, the mods I have made include LifeLike Nat B-1 trucks, wire grabs, lowering the bolsters, adding WEIGHT (with the complete loss of underbody detail), cut levers, air lines and hoses. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:01:34 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Class PK wooden coach Hello List. I recieved this sale booklet in the mail from D.F. BARNHARDT & ASSOCIATES. They handle the sale of all kinds of locomotives, both steam and diesel,psgr cars,frt cars,trolleys,etc. Among the items they have is a PRR wooden coach listed as class PK,car number 1444. It is located at the Henry Ford Museum,Dearborn, Mich. It is to be auction off on March 7,2002 at Barnhardts in N.C. Sold as is where is. Also in this auction is the C&O 4-8-4 #614. It would be nice to see it redone and put with the other early wooden cars at Strasburg. Car looks in rough condition with the platform end that is showing sagging significantly,no noticable lettering,some windows boarded over on the side seen and locations on the roof that look like pieces of the top layer gone or pieces of plywood for patches. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:35:33 -0600 Subject: [PRR] I-1sa 4528 From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" All I scanned a photo of 4528 working upgrade at Harris, PA, in August 1948 for Dick Glueck. It is in jpg format. If anyone wants a copy, let me know. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:12:11 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Those Signal Corps photos, 7th and last part. To avoid repeating a bunch of characters which are constant, note that the images are all at http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/xx/yyy.jpg where xx and yyy are numbers. I will recite only the numbers. xx=34 yyy= 001 A potpourri of military vehicles, RR cars in background. 002 Vehicles on RR cars (flat, gon). Ho! Mayhap a PRR GRA? 003 Loading tank onto flat car. 004 Big crane lifting a diesel locomotive. 005 Same crane, same action, car float in foreground. xx=35 I found no railroad content in this, the last sub-directory. None. Not any. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Greenburg show at Monroeville Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:27:12 -0500 Walt, Yes this is the typical Greensburg show at Monroeville. I have stopped going for the same reasons. By the time I pay entry for my self & the Boss...My Wife I am better buying cars at the local hobby shop. I prefer the smaller shows Mabe not as many vendors but sometimes you can get really good deals. Sam Vastano >From: "WaltP" >To: >Subject: [PRR] Greenburg show at Monroeville >Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:45:18 -0500 > >Guys, >Attended the above mentioned show, picked up some Bowser cars (N5s and >G25's). As I havn't attended in a few years I found it followed the >"typical" Greenburg foremat. Lots of venders (at pretty much retail price), >lots of consumers (a LOT of pushing and shoving) and a LOT of short >tempers. >About the only thing that was consistant was that many venders were selling >Athearn locos at below even "clearance" prices, and they all seemed to have >the ubiquitous box of "junkers" (old AHM/Tyco/?) cars at +$4 each. BTW, >there wasn't ONE brass loco for sale. > >After missing out on this show for the past few years, I think I will >"miss" >the next few years. Is my experience unique, or have others experienced the >same thing? > >Walt Prusick > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Sam Vastano McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. PH 724-368-8040 X243 Fax 724-368-9677 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] Greenburg show at Monroeville Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:45:18 -0500 Guys, Attended the above mentioned show, picked up some Bowser cars (N5s and G25's). As I havn't attended in a few years I found it followed the "typical" Greenburg foremat. Lots of venders (at pretty much retail price), lots of consumers (a LOT of pushing and shoving) and a LOT of short tempers. About the only thing that was consistant was that many venders were selling Athearn locos at below even "clearance" prices, and they all seemed to have the ubiquitous box of "junkers" (old AHM/Tyco/?) cars at +$4 each. BTW, there wasn't ONE brass loco for sale. After missing out on this show for the past few years, I think I will "miss" the next few years. Is my experience unique, or have others experienced the same thing? Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:37:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Greenberg Train Show Overview The Greenberg Train Shows in the Philadelphia area aren't that great ether. Some are better than others depending on what venders are attending. We just had one at the Fort Washington Expo Center. I bought Peter Lorro"s new PRR print and got three custom painted PRR Kato SD40/45s from Southern Tier Modelworks. I was there about an hour than went to the Great American Train show in King Of Prussia, Pa. It was thee worst!! I come to realize that the GATS and Greenberg Shows are not really for serious PRR modelers, or for any serious modelers. The Great Scale Model Train Show in Timonium MD, just north of Baltimore, is one of the best shows between Wash DC and NYC. This show draws lots of people from all over the East. I've met some Lines West guys from the Ohio and PRR fans from Florida at this show. The next show is March 23-24. If you like brass,it's here. There are other shows like the Allentown Train show, and the train meets in York Pa. and Gettysburg that are pretty good. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BudPCCRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:49:31 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Greenburg show at Monroeville --part1_17e.41c2780.29aa81ab_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I attended the show as well. There was even less O scale 2 rail. But, I did buy a pair of tweezers and some scenic material, saving shipping. Also talked to a guy who was working with metal mostly for G scale. The neat thing was that I got some metal working ideas I can use especially using a paper cutter to shear thin metal. Should be great for making gutters. I thought I got my $6.00 bucks worth. Bud Brock PRRT&HS, PS&N Society, Rutland Society, OSKers, Mini bunch, Central Ohio O Scale Engineers (COOSE), Youngstown Model RR Club. --part1_17e.41c2780.29aa81ab_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I attended the show as well.  There was even less O scale 2 rail.  But, I did buy a pair of tweezers and some scenic material, saving shipping.  Also talked to a guy who was working with metal mostly for G scale.  The neat thing was that I got some metal working ideas I can use especially using a paper cutter to shear thin metal.  Should be great for making gutters.  I thought I got my $6.00 bucks worth.
                         Bud Brock
PRRT&HS, PS&N Society, Rutland Society, OSKers,
Mini bunch, Central Ohio O Scale Engineers (COOSE), Youngstown Model RR Club. --part1_17e.41c2780.29aa81ab_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] PRR Sleepers Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:35:22 -0500 I know the PRR operated a New York to Erie Pa. Sleeper on Trains 580/581. What I am wondering is what PRR sleeper or class (8-1-2, 10-1-2, etc) was regularly assigned to these trains. I am interested in the mid to late 50's time frame. 1957 particularly. Any help would be appreciated. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:28:14 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR Class POC85AR Hi listers- Does anybody have a name or numbers for a PRR Car Class POC85AR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, by Budd. The POC85BR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, #7128-7129 ran on the Congo, but I can't find any info on the A. Thanks in advance, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:28:14 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] PRR Class POC85AR Hi listers- Does anybody have a name or numbers for a PRR Car Class POC85AR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, by Budd. The POC85BR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, #7128-7129 ran on the Congo, but I can't find any info on the A. Thanks in advance, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 06:15:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Sleepers From: Jerry Britton On 2/24/02 10:35 PM, Brian J Carlson at (brian@net.bluemoon.net) wrote: > I know the PRR operated a New York to Erie Pa. Sleeper on Trains 580/581. > What I am wondering is what PRR sleeper or class (8-1-2, 10-1-2, etc) was > regularly assigned to these trains. I am interested in the mid to late 50's > time frame. 1957 particularly. Any help would be appreciated. > See "24 Hours at Harrisburg" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/ Has consists for passenger trains thru Harrisburg in 1954. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:20:46 -0500 From: TWRimer@uss.com Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 02/25/02 I have a friend who sells my scratchbuilt structures at shows in the western PA and eastern OH area and has been doing so for about 15 years. The Greenberg show in Monroeville by far yields the most sales, so from a sellers per- spective, it's a great show. Tom Rimer twrimer@uss.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Greenberg Train Show Overview Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:15:49 -0500 Dave wrote: "There are other shows like the Allentown Train show, and the train meets in York Pa. and Gettysburg that are pretty good. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for." I went to Allentown and G'burg last year. Allentown too much Tinplate! Gettysburg is done by the same guy who runs Timonium ALL SCALE!!!!!! Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: [PRR] PRR Sleepers Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:10:49 -0500 From: "Jerry Shickler" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Sleepers Originally posted by Drew McGhee back in '97: The April 1956 _Official Guide..._ lists the typical make up of the trains, north of Williamsport, as follows: 575/581 Dominion/Northern Express Lounge Car Washington - Buffalo 8 S Buffet Sleeping Cars Philly - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB Washington - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB to 581 Washington - Erie 10 S 3 DB to 581 NYC - Erie 8S 5 DB from Train #1 to 581 NYC - Erie 10 S 3 DB from Train #1 NYC - Emporium Cafe Car to 581 Washington - Erie Coaches Washington - Buffalo to 581 Philly - Erie from Train 615 574/580 Dominion/Southern Express Lounge Car Buffalo - Washington 8 S Buffet Sleeping Cars Buffalo - Philly 10 s 5 DB Buffalo - Washington 10 S 5 DB from 580 Erie - Washington 10 S 3 DB from 580 Erie - NYC 8 S 5 DB via train #20 from 580 Erie - NYC 10 S 3 DB via Train #20 Cafe Car from 580 Erie - Harrisburg Coaches Buffalo - Washington Buffalo - Philly via Train #36 from 580 Erie - Harrisburg --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Brian J Carlson > > To: ; PRR Talk ; PRRFax > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 10:35 PM > > Subject: [PRR] PRR Sleepers > > > > > > > I know the PRR operated a New York to Erie Pa. Sleeper on Trains > 580/581. > > > What I am wondering is what PRR sleeper or class (8-1-2, 10-1-2, etc) > was > > > regularly assigned to these trains. I am interested in the mid to late > > 50's > > > time frame. 1957 particularly. Any help would be appreciated. > > > > > > Brian J Carlson > > > Cheektowaga NY > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:31:47 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Sleepers Are you sure all those 10sec 5br cars are not really prewar streamlined 10 rmt 5br cars (Cascade xxx)? 10 sections and 5 brs are lot to stuff into one car! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Shickler wrote: > From: "Jerry Shickler" > To: "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:53 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Sleepers > > Originally posted by Drew McGhee back in '97: > > The April 1956 _Official Guide..._ lists the typical make up of the trains, > north of Williamsport, as follows: > > 575/581 Dominion/Northern Express > > Lounge Car Washington - Buffalo 8 S Buffet > > Sleeping Cars Philly - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB > Washington - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB > to 581 Washington - Erie 10 S 3 DB > to 581 NYC - Erie 8S 5 DB from Train #1 > to 581 NYC - Erie 10 S 3 DB from Train #1 > NYC - Emporium > > Cafe Car to 581 Washington - Erie > > Coaches Washington - Buffalo > to 581 Philly - Erie from Train 615 > > 574/580 Dominion/Southern Express > > Lounge Car Buffalo - Washington 8 S Buffet > > Sleeping Cars Buffalo - Philly 10 s 5 DB > Buffalo - Washington 10 S 5 DB > from 580 Erie - Washington 10 S 3 DB > from 580 Erie - NYC 8 S 5 DB via train #20 > from 580 Erie - NYC 10 S 3 DB via Train #20 > > Cafe Car from 580 Erie - Harrisburg > > Coaches Buffalo - Washington > Buffalo - Philly via Train #36 > from 580 Erie - Harrisburg > > --- > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Brian J Carlson > > > To: ; PRR Talk ; PRRFax > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 10:35 PM > > > Subject: [PRR] PRR Sleepers > > > > > > > > > > I know the PRR operated a New York to Erie Pa. Sleeper on Trains > > 580/581. > > > > What I am wondering is what PRR sleeper or class (8-1-2, 10-1-2, etc) > > was > > > > regularly assigned to these trains. I am interested in the mid to late > > > > 50's > > > > time frame. 1957 particularly. Any help would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > Brian J Carlson > > > > Cheektowaga NY > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Sleepers Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:43:44 -0600 I think these cars are pre-war 10 roomette (not section) five double bedroom cars. The analogous post-war configuration was 10 roomette-6 double bedroom. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 10:32 AM To: Jerry Shickler Cc: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Sleepers Are you sure all those 10sec 5br cars are not really prewar streamlined 10 rmt 5br cars (Cascade xxx)? 10 sections and 5 brs are lot to stuff into one car! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Shickler wrote: > From: "Jerry Shickler" > To: "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:53 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Sleepers > > Originally posted by Drew McGhee back in '97: > > The April 1956 _Official Guide..._ lists the typical make up of the trains, > north of Williamsport, as follows: > > 575/581 Dominion/Northern Express > > Lounge Car Washington - Buffalo 8 S Buffet > > Sleeping Cars Philly - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB > Washington - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB > to 581 Washington - Erie 10 S 3 DB > to 581 NYC - Erie 8S 5 DB from Train #1 > to 581 NYC - Erie 10 S 3 DB from Train #1 > NYC - Emporium > > Cafe Car to 581 Washington - Erie > > Coaches Washington - Buffalo > to 581 Philly - Erie from Train 615 > > 574/580 Dominion/Southern Express > > Lounge Car Buffalo - Washington 8 S Buffet > > Sleeping Cars Buffalo - Philly 10 s 5 DB > Buffalo - Washington 10 S 5 DB > from 580 Erie - Washington 10 S 3 DB > from 580 Erie - NYC 8 S 5 DB via train #20 > from 580 Erie - NYC 10 S 3 DB via Train #20 > > Cafe Car from 580 Erie - Harrisburg > > Coaches Buffalo - Washington > Buffalo - Philly via Train #36 > from 580 Erie - Harrisburg > > --- > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Brian J Carlson > > > To: ; PRR Talk ; PRRFax > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 10:35 PM > > > Subject: [PRR] PRR Sleepers > > > > > > > > > > I know the PRR operated a New York to Erie Pa. Sleeper on Trains > > 580/581. > > > > What I am wondering is what PRR sleeper or class (8-1-2, 10-1-2, etc) > > was > > > > regularly assigned to these trains. I am interested in the mid to late > > > > 50's > > > > time frame. 1957 particularly. Any help would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > Brian J Carlson > > > > Cheektowaga NY > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:32:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] PRR Class POC85AR I think the problem is in Rob Schoenberg's otherwise excellent website. I don't believe these cars were Budd. Notice the drawings don't say "Budd", only Rob's Index says Budd. I had never noticed this before. These cars were built by PS along with the BWAY's 2 cars and the 7 presidents for the 1947-48 upgrade of all the PRR long distance trains. I believe they were eventually assigned to the Cincinnati Ltd. However, the only photo of one that I have shows it with a Jeffersonian tailsign. The photo is too poor to reads the number. They were not parlors, but rather coach lounges and therefore never had names. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" wrote: > Hi listers- > > Does anybody have a name or numbers for a PRR Car Class > > POC85AR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, by Budd. > > The POC85BR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, #7128-7129 ran on the Congo, > > but I can't find any info on the A. > > Thanks in advance, > > Eddie > Dr. Edmond L. Freed > PRRT&HS # 156 > Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/iZp8OC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:41:06 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Class BM70 > Jerry Britton wrote: > > > Could one or more of you fine folks educated in the ways of passenger > > equipment please compare and contrast the following three sub-classes of > > BM70's: > > > > BM70 > > BM70m > > BM70m 30' > > > > I know the 30' refers to mail space vs. baggage space, but I don't know how > > it compares to the otherwise standard space allocation. > > > > I am planning for models of many trains and the "Makeup of Trains" book > > lists all three sub-classes for various trains. Thanks! > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry- Hope this helps. Class Info Numbers Trucks BM70A 70' Baggage-RPO-1930 #5421-5430 BM70A 70' Baggage-RPO #7330-7331,7360X BM70A 70' Baggage-RPO #7424-32,7766 BM70A 70' Baggage-RPO #9444-9448 BM70A 70' Baggage-RPO #9711-9714 BM70K -70' Baggage-RPO-conv.from BM70A, BM70F #5264-5286X ? 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- BM70K -70' Baggage-RPO-conv. from BM70G #5293-94? -3D5P2,3D5P3 BM70K -70' Baggage-RPO-conv. from BM70A,BM70F,BM70G #5307-5398? Same BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-conv. from BM70E #7218-34 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-conv. from BM70D #7554-55 -3D5P2,3D5P3 BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-conv. from BM70D, BM70E #7697-7705 Same BM70M(A)- 70' Baggage-RPO- 60' Mail-10' Bagg.- Blt.1908 #6547-6592 3DP1,3DP2,3D7P2 BM70N 70' Baggage-RPO- 60' Mail-10' Bagg.-Blt. 1907-11 #6532-6546 3DP1,3DP2,3D7P2 BM70NB-70' Baggage-RPO-60' Mail-10' Bagg.-Blt. 1908-14 #6503-09, 6512,6516,6518,6522-23,6525-29 2EP5,2EP6A BM85-85' Baggage-RPO- Blt.1948-49 #6595-6598 2EP5 BM85A-85' Baggage-RPO- Blt.1948-49 #6599 2EP5 BD85R- 85" Dormitory-Baggage- ACF-Lot 2986 #6691-6694, 6707-6708X M70-RPO-70' inside #8616XX M70B-RPO-70' #6522, 6550, XX 3DP1 M70BA-RPO-70'- Blt.1910-11 #6502,6510-11,6513-14,19-21,6524,6531-16 cars reblt to BM70NB 3DP1 MS60- X-42 -60' Mail Storage Car-Blt.1950 #2540-2549XX 2DF32 Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/iZp8OC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:32:05 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] PRR Class POC85AR I think the problem is in Rob Schoenberg's otherwise excellent website. I don't believe these cars were Budd. Notice the drawings don't say "Budd", only Rob's Index says Budd. I had never noticed this before. These cars were built by PS along with the BWAY's 2 cars and the 7 presidents for the 1947-48 upgrade of all the PRR long distance trains. I believe they were eventually assigned to the Cincinnati Ltd. However, the only photo of one that I have shows it with a Jeffersonian tailsign. The photo is too poor to reads the number. They were not parlors, but rather coach lounges and therefore never had names. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" wrote: > Hi listers- > > Does anybody have a name or numbers for a PRR Car Class > > POC85AR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, by Budd. > > The POC85BR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, #7128-7129 ran on the Congo, > > but I can't find any info on the A. > > Thanks in advance, > > Eddie > Dr. Edmond L. Freed > PRRT&HS # 156 > Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:41:06 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] Class BM70 > Jerry Britton wrote: > > > Could one or more of you fine folks educated in the ways of passenger > > equipment please compare and contrast the following three sub-classes of > > BM70's: > > > > BM70 > > BM70m > > BM70m 30' > > > > I know the 30' refers to mail space vs. baggage space, but I don't know how > > it compares to the otherwise standard space allocation. > > > > I am planning for models of many trains and the "Makeup of Trains" book > > lists all three sub-classes for various trains. Thanks! > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry- Hope this helps. Class Info Numbers Trucks BM70A 70' Baggage-RPO-1930 #5421-5430 BM70A 70' Baggage-RPO #7330-7331,7360X BM70A 70' Baggage-RPO #7424-32,7766 BM70A 70' Baggage-RPO #9444-9448 BM70A 70' Baggage-RPO #9711-9714 BM70K -70' Baggage-RPO-conv.from BM70A, BM70F #5264-5286X ? 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- BM70K -70' Baggage-RPO-conv. from BM70G #5293-94? -3D5P2,3D5P3 BM70K -70' Baggage-RPO-conv. from BM70A,BM70F,BM70G #5307-5398? Same BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-conv. from BM70E #7218-34 3CP1,3DP2,3D5P1- BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-conv. from BM70D #7554-55 -3D5P2,3D5P3 BM70KA-70' Baggage-RPO-conv. from BM70D, BM70E #7697-7705 Same BM70M(A)- 70' Baggage-RPO- 60' Mail-10' Bagg.- Blt.1908 #6547-6592 3DP1,3DP2,3D7P2 BM70N 70' Baggage-RPO- 60' Mail-10' Bagg.-Blt. 1907-11 #6532-6546 3DP1,3DP2,3D7P2 BM70NB-70' Baggage-RPO-60' Mail-10' Bagg.-Blt. 1908-14 #6503-09, 6512,6516,6518,6522-23,6525-29 2EP5,2EP6A BM85-85' Baggage-RPO- Blt.1948-49 #6595-6598 2EP5 BM85A-85' Baggage-RPO- Blt.1948-49 #6599 2EP5 BD85R- 85" Dormitory-Baggage- ACF-Lot 2986 #6691-6694, 6707-6708X M70-RPO-70' inside #8616XX M70B-RPO-70' #6522, 6550, XX 3DP1 M70BA-RPO-70'- Blt.1910-11 #6502,6510-11,6513-14,19-21,6524,6531-16 cars reblt to BM70NB 3DP1 MS60- X-42 -60' Mail Storage Car-Blt.1950 #2540-2549XX 2DF32 Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] PRR Class POC85AR Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:08:03 -0500 Oops! Since the POC85, POC85B & POC85C were all built by Budd, I guess I mistakenly assumed that the POC85A's were also... I fixed it on my site... The diagrams for all of these cars are at: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?sel=obcaf If you find any other errors, please let me know! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Andrew S. > Miller > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:32 PM > To: PRR@yahoogroups.com > Cc: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com > PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; > PRR-Talk@dsop.com; robs@railfan.net > Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] PRR Class POC85AR > > > I think the problem is in Rob Schoenberg's otherwise excellent > website. I don't believe these cars > were Budd. Notice the drawings don't say "Budd", only Rob's > Index says Budd. I had never noticed > this before. > > These cars were built by PS along with the BWAY's 2 cars and the > 7 presidents for the 1947-48 > upgrade of all the PRR long distance trains. I believe they were > eventually assigned to the > Cincinnati Ltd. However, the only photo of one that I have shows > it with a Jeffersonian tailsign. > The photo is too poor to reads the number. They were not parlors, > but rather coach lounges and > therefore never had names. > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > ================================================== > "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" wrote: > > > Hi listers- > > > > Does anybody have a name or numbers for a PRR Car Class > > > > POC85AR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, by Budd. > > > > The POC85BR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, #7128-7129 ran on the Congo, > > > > but I can't find any info on the A. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Eddie > > Dr. Edmond L. Freed > > PRRT&HS # 156 > > Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:08:03 -0500 Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] PRR Class POC85AR Oops! Since the POC85, POC85B & POC85C were all built by Budd, I guess I mistakenly assumed that the POC85A's were also... I fixed it on my site... The diagrams for all of these cars are at: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?sel=obcaf If you find any other errors, please let me know! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Andrew S. > Miller > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:32 PM > To: PRR@yahoogroups.com > Cc: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com > PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; > PRR-Talk@dsop.com; robs@railfan.net > Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] PRR Class POC85AR > > > I think the problem is in Rob Schoenberg's otherwise excellent > website. I don't believe these cars > were Budd. Notice the drawings don't say "Budd", only Rob's > Index says Budd. I had never noticed > this before. > > These cars were built by PS along with the BWAY's 2 cars and the > 7 presidents for the 1947-48 > upgrade of all the PRR long distance trains. I believe they were > eventually assigned to the > Cincinnati Ltd. However, the only photo of one that I have shows > it with a Jeffersonian tailsign. > The photo is too poor to reads the number. They were not parlors, > but rather coach lounges and > therefore never had names. > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > ================================================== > "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" wrote: > > > Hi listers- > > > > Does anybody have a name or numbers for a PRR Car Class > > > > POC85AR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, by Budd. > > > > The POC85BR-Parlor-Bar-Lnge-Obs, #7128-7129 ran on the Congo, > > > > but I can't find any info on the A. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Eddie > > Dr. Edmond L. Freed > > PRRT&HS # 156 > > Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Sleepers Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:45:10 -0500 Andy, It's deja vu all over again... Looking back at the archives, you asked the same question when Drew posted it in '97, to which he replied... "Both the April 1956 _Official Guide..._ and a PRR April 1956 timetable listed the cars as 10 S 5 DB... In the PRR timetable there was no description of a section. Wasn't a section one of those curtained open sleeping things? Weren't sections gone by the 50s? Did they use the term section and roomette interchangably? The timetable listed some of the cars as 10S 5 DB and others 10 R 5 DB." ... and since it was in an official PRR timetable, it must be FAXual. :-P --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm >From: "Andrew S. Miller" >To: Jerry Shickler >CC: PRR-Talk >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Sleepers >Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:31:47 -0500 > >Are you sure all those 10sec 5br cars are not really prewar streamlined 10 rmt >5br cars (Cascade xxx)? 10 sections and 5 brs are lot to stuff into one car! > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org > >================================================== >Jerry Shickler wrote: > > > From: "Jerry Shickler" > > To: "PRR-Talk" > > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Sleepers > > > > Originally posted by Drew McGhee back in '97: > > > > The April 1956 _Official Guide..._ lists the typical make up of the trains, > > north of Williamsport, as follows: > > > > 575/581 Dominion/Northern Express > > > > Lounge Car Washington - Buffalo 8 S Buffet > > > > Sleeping Cars Philly - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB > > Washington - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB > > to 581 Washington - Erie 10 S 3 DB > > to 581 NYC - Erie 8S 5 DB from Train #1 > > to 581 NYC - Erie 10 S 3 DB from Train #1 > > NYC - Emporium > > > > Cafe Car to 581 Washington - Erie > > > > Coaches Washington - Buffalo > > to 581 Philly - Erie from Train 615 > > > > 574/580 Dominion/Southern Express > > > > Lounge Car Buffalo - Washington 8 S Buffet > > > > Sleeping Cars Buffalo - Philly 10 s 5 DB > > Buffalo - Washington 10 S 5 DB > > from 580 Erie - Washington 10 S 3 DB > > from 580 Erie - NYC 8 S 5 DB via train #20 > > from 580 Erie - NYC 10 S 3 DB via Train #20 > > > > Cafe Car from 580 Erie - Harrisburg > > > > Coaches Buffalo - Washington > > Buffalo - Philly via Train #36 > > from 580 Erie - Harrisburg > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:04:11 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] PRR Class POC85AR "H.&S." wrote: > > Hi... > > Here is what info i have from Wayner's > "PRR Passenger and Freight car Diagrams" > POC85ar seating cap. 53 > weight 142,400 pds. > No's 1132 thru 1136. > > My copy of the PRR Passenger Equipment roster of > Oct. 1954 (from Bob Colquitt's Wahsatch Backshop publishing) > lists this... > > No.s 1132-1136 class POC85a seating 53 truck type 2E-P5 > > You can forward to the list if you like. Hope this helps.... Til Later H. Mummert H- Thanks for the info. My list had #1132-36 as POC85-Cafe Obs by Budd, seating 51, trucks-2D-P8. My ORPTE (1/53) does not list seating for these cars, so that did not help. It lists #1126 (a POC85) as "DCl-Obs-Lunch, length 85'5", but lists #1132-36 as DCL-Obs-Lounge-Buffett, length 85'0". This is why I was confused. However, I regard Wayner as the bible, even tho I do not own a copy. Thanks again for the assistance. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:04:11 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Class POC85AR "H.&S." wrote: > > Hi... > > Here is what info i have from Wayner's > "PRR Passenger and Freight car Diagrams" > POC85ar seating cap. 53 > weight 142,400 pds. > No's 1132 thru 1136. > > My copy of the PRR Passenger Equipment roster of > Oct. 1954 (from Bob Colquitt's Wahsatch Backshop publishing) > lists this... > > No.s 1132-1136 class POC85a seating 53 truck type 2E-P5 > > You can forward to the list if you like. Hope this helps.... Til Later H. Mummert H- Thanks for the info. My list had #1132-36 as POC85-Cafe Obs by Budd, seating 51, trucks-2D-P8. My ORPTE (1/53) does not list seating for these cars, so that did not help. It lists #1126 (a POC85) as "DCl-Obs-Lunch, length 85'5", but lists #1132-36 as DCL-Obs-Lounge-Buffett, length 85'0". This is why I was confused. However, I regard Wayner as the bible, even tho I do not own a copy. Thanks again for the assistance. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:16:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR N8 Hi Lists, I am far enough along on my scratch built PRR N8 Cabin that I can share some sneak peak photos of it. First I want to thank some people for the answers to certain questions I had via these lists. Thanks Bob J for the color scheme on what gets painted what. Bill L on the Battery Box pic. I hope I took you guys advice well and put it to good use. Here is the URL if you wish to visit. Again, the project isn't quite done so somethings will be changed/adjusted a bit. But overall you will get the idea of what I was trying to build. Thanks, Gary 1:29th G Scale N8 Photos: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/GN8-index.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:48:45 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] On Wootten and culm A year or so ago, someone raised a question about "the Wootten firebox". Several people responded. Last night, as I was prowling about in the Dreaded Basement, I came across a copy of: Mechanical Engineer's Pocket Book William Kent M.E. Sc.D. 9th edition, copyright 1895, 1902, 1910, 1915 On page 1114, citing an article in Journal of the Franklin Institute 1891, Kent has a paragraph on Wootten's Locomotive. I quote part of it: J. E. Wootten designed and constructed a locomotive boiler for the combustion of anthracite and lignite, though specially for the utilization as fuel of the waste produced in the mining and preparation of anthracite. The special feature of the engine is the fire-box, which is made of great length and breadth, extending clear over the wheels, giving a grate-area of from 64 to 85 sq. ft. The draught diffused over these large areas is so gentle as to not lift the fine particles of the fuel. Now, in the discussion on PRR-talk, the term "culm" was used. Someone seemed to imply that "culm" means "low grade anthracite", I took the position that it means "unusably fine anthracite" (unusable before Wootten, that is). It now seems that we were both right. On pg 823, Kent gives a list of sizes of anthracite. In the following AxB means "passes an A inch screen, retained on a B inch screen": Size Screens Broken 4 7/16 x 3 7/16 Egg 3 7/16 x 2 3/16 Stove 2 3/16 x 1 9/16 Chestnut 1 9/16 x 11/16 Pea 11/16 x 9/16 Buckwheat #1 9/16 x 5/16 Buckwheat #2 5/16 x 3/16 Buckwheat #3 3/16 x 3/32 Culm through 3/32 That suggests that "culm" is just very fine coal. However, on the same page Kent reports: When coal is screened into sizes for shipment the purity of the different sizes as regards ash varies greatly. Samples from one mine gave results as follows: Size Screens % Carbon % Ash Egg 2.5 x 1.75 88.49 5.66 Stove 1.75 x 1.25 83.67 10.17 Chestnut 1.25 x 0.75 80.72 12.67 Pea 0.75 x 0.50 79.05 14.66 Buckwheat 0.50 x 0.25 76.02 16.62 Note that even though the same names are used, the sizes are different. I've read that that is just the way it was in the coal industry, even more so in the bituminous side of the house. The main point though: If the decrease in carbon, increase in ash continues into the even smaller sizes, "culm" is indeed rather poor anthracite, not just small anthracite. I do suggest, however, that the main point of Wootten's invention lay in "...draught...so gentle as to not lift the fine particles..." Jumping back to the sizes of anthracite, the 11th edition of Kent (1936, reprinted 1943) recites a slightly different set of sizes (same names, different screens) and notes that those sizes were adopted by the Anthracite Operators Conference in 1929 and later became part of ASTM specification D310-31. I trust that you all remember that while PRR was not a power in the anthracite coal fields, it owned interests in anthracite mining and did have some traffic in that fuel. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:42:40 -0500 From: Ike Subject: Re: [PRR] On Wootten and culm robert netzlof wrote: > Now, in the discussion on PRR-talk, the term "culm" > was used. Someone seemed to imply that "culm" means > "low grade anthracite", I took the position that it > means "unusably fine anthracite" (unusable before > Wootten, that is). It now seems that we were both > right. No, I feel you were right in you original thoughts- Whether or not a certain vein of anthracite is trash is decided long before it is brought to the surface. How it is handled once mined is not the fault of the coal. > On pg 823, Kent gives a list of sizes of anthracite. > In the following AxB means "passes an A inch screen, > retained on a B inch screen": > > Size Screens > Broken 4 7/16 x 3 7/16 > Egg 3 7/16 x 2 3/16 > Stove 2 3/16 x 1 9/16 > Chestnut 1 9/16 x 11/16 > Pea 11/16 x 9/16 > Buckwheat #1 9/16 x 5/16 > Buckwheat #2 5/16 x 3/16 > Buckwheat #3 3/16 x 3/32 > Culm through 3/32 > > That suggests that "culm" is just very fine coal. With a lot of rock and shale mixed in. "Culm piles" are waste piles from the breakers and also the washeries. "Waste" only because it was unmarketable at that time. > However, on the same page Kent reports: When coal is > screened into sizes for shipment the purity of the > different sizes as regards ash varies greatly. Samples > from one mine gave results as follows: > > Size Screens % Carbon % Ash > Egg 2.5 x 1.75 88.49 5.66 > Stove 1.75 x 1.25 83.67 10.17 > Chestnut 1.25 x 0.75 80.72 12.67 > Pea 0.75 x 0.50 79.05 14.66 > Buckwheat 0.50 x 0.25 76.02 16.62 > > Note that even though the same names are used, the > sizes are different. I've read that that is just the > way it was in the coal industry, even more so in the > bituminous side of the house... Indeed. There was a grade sold at our local breakers that is not even mentioned: "Rice" > The main point though: If the decrease in carbon, > increase in ash continues into the even smaller sizes, > "culm" is indeed rather poor anthracite, not just > small anthracite. Due only to an increase in the amount of contaminants... The different sizes all came from the same lump of coal, and the washeries of the day were unable to further seperate the wheat from the chaf, so to speak. So you had the mountainous piles of culm still visible in place like Shamokin and Tower City. I do suggest, however, that the main > point of Wootten's invention lay > in "...draught...so gentle as to not lift the fine > particles..." > > Jumping back to the sizes of anthracite, the 11th > edition of Kent (1936, reprinted 1943) recites a > slightly different set of sizes (same names, different > screens) and notes that those sizes were adopted by > the Anthracite Operators Conference in 1929 and later > became part of ASTM specification D310-31. > > I trust that you all remember that while PRR was not a > power in the anthracite coal fields, it owned > interests in anthracite mining and did have some > traffic in that fuel. The Lykens Valley Rail Road/ Summit Branch. The Lykens Valley Coal Company. My Grand father and others of the family worked for both. ;-) They put a lot of hard coal out of the west end of the Lykens/Williams Valleys, while the P&R C&I was busy shipping it out the other way. -- sincerely, IKE ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:37:04 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] On Wootten and culm --- Ike wrote: > robert netzlof wrote: > > Size Screens > > Broken 4 7/16 x 3 7/16 > > Egg 3 7/16 x 2 3/16 > > Stove 2 3/16 x 1 9/16 > > Chestnut 1 9/16 x 11/16 > > Pea 11/16 x 9/16 > > Buckwheat #1 9/16 x 5/16 > > Buckwheat #2 5/16 x 3/16 > > Buckwheat #3 3/16 x 3/32 > > Culm through 3/32 > Indeed. There was a grade sold at our local breakers > that is not even > mentioned: > "Rice" Kent does say, and I omitted it for brevity in an already maybe too long post: "The terms buckwheat, rice, and barley are used in some localities instead of #1, #2, and #3 buckwheat." ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:26:00 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] On Wootten and culm > Kent does say, and I omitted it for brevity in an > already maybe too long post: > > "The terms buckwheat, rice, and barley are used in > some localities instead of #1, #2, and #3 buckwheat." Indeed, venture to Sayre, Pa to the wonderfully preserved coal bunkers next to a fuel dealership to the north of the LVRR's station. The chutes are still labeled as such: buckwheat, rice & c. My (wonderfully tolerant) spouse and I discovered this wonderously intact structure on a trip two Summers hence. Get thee hence before it, too, succumbs to "progress." BTW, in East Broad Top's "Semi-Bituminous" country, such "stuff" was referred to as "fines" and was use in the coke ovens at Rockhill Furnace. Later, after the blast furnaces were abandonned it was dumped with shale and other detritous on "boney piles" (the equivilent of Anthracite region's "culm banks." A puzzling thing, this language called Amer-English! Anthracite For Ever! (if one ignors diamonds) Vagel Keller Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:34:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Class PK wooden coach From: "M. E Allen" Has anybody checked the provenance of that coach? Anybody on the list near Dearborn? I also noticed it in the Barnhardt's catalog and it does "look right", however the Henry Ford Museum has had some historic problems with accuracy of their cataloging which has resulted in past sales of exhibits and equipment which were simply not what they were originally thought to be. If it is legit I agree it would be good to add to Strausburg or Altoona. Mike Allen On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:01:34 EST PKMac101@aol.com writes: > Hello List. > I recieved this sale booklet in the mail from D.F. BARNHARDT & ASSOCIATES. They handle the sale of all kinds of locomotives, both steam and diesel,psgr cars,frt cars,trolleys,etc. Among the items they have is a PRR wooden coach listed as class PK,car number 1444. It is located at the Henry Ford Museum,Dearborn, Mich. It is to be auction off on March 7,2002 at Barnhardts in N.C. Sold as is where is. Also in this auction is the C&O 4-8-4 #614. > It would be nice to see it redone and put with the other early wooden cars at Strasburg. Car looks in rough condition with the platform end that is showing sagging significantly,no noticable lettering,some windows boarded over on the side seen and locations on the roof that look like pieces of the top layer gone or pieces of plywood for patches. > > Pat McKinney > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "David Honner" Subject: [PRR] Mingo Roundhouse and Turntable Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:19:36 +1100 I am interested in modelling the roundhouse and turntable at Mingo Junction. A web page here: http://www.prrths.com/PRR_Mystery_four.html claims that Mingo and Crestline were very similar in design. Bill Ayers' web site on the Crestline facility (http://crestline.pennsyrr.com/) confirms that they were built from the same plans, so I intend to use the Crestline research as a starting point for modelling Mingo. Crestline was originally built with a 100' turntable so perhaps Mingo was too. I'd like to know the original diameter of the turntable at Mingo, whether it was ever extended and, if so, when. Both Conway and Crestville were extended to 110' so I assume that Mingo might well have had this extension as well. There is what appears to be an M1 on the top right track in the photo given above. It's length seems to match the diameter of the pit fairly closely, so this is a bit of a clue but not definite as it's pretty hard to measure from the photo. Which brings me to another question. The Mingo roundhouse in the photo has an extension with much longer stalls. You can see the smoke stacks at the end of this newer addition (square silvery stacks). The 4 stalls on the end of this newer section seem to have their square smoke stacks removed - you can see the patches on the roof where they used to be - and 3 of these stalls have extra smoke outlets in the middle. I was wondering if the longer stalls weren't built for some of the longer equipment as well, with the smoke stacks over where the engine would be. Perhaps later on it was decided that such equipment would go to elsewhere instead, so some of these stalls had their smoke exhausts moved inwards. The extra length of the stalls seems to make them suitable for T1 and Q2, judging from the similar extensions at Crestline. So, questions - was Mingo ever considered for such equipment? Was Mingo ever short listed as a place for such equipment? When was this roundhouse extension built? Was it at the same time as the turntable extension, or were these two separate projects? I suppose the Q2 being the "new" high speed freight engine in 1944-5 and this area being a heavy freight user, would have required a 110' table and slightly longer stalls. Thus the extensions at Mingo might have been for Q2, whereas at Crestline more for the T1 as well as the Q2? Also, the J1 would have needed a 110' table. Thanks for any assistance. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:19:11 -0500 Subject: RE: [PRR] Greenberg Train Show Overview I used to go to the Allentown meets in both spring and fall. It used to be a good show until the promoters thought they could cram more vendors than customers. You can't walk through the aisles because there are none and you can't look at the merchandise because the crowd pushes you along like a leaf in a river. I'm sure they are in violation of fire laws, you couldn't get out quickly if your life depended on it. I prefer to have room to stop and look at the merchandise instead of standing in an aisle waiting for someone with a baby carriage to get out of the aisle. I like to go to Howard Zane's shows but the Gettysburg show seems a little light in the vendor area and they are scattered all over the hotel. I ended up missing half of the vendors because they were squirreled away in some corner away from the main hall. It is one of the few shows Howard has that I usually don't go to. Subject: RE: [PRR] Greenberg Train Show Overview From: "Chany, Christopher" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:15:49 -0500 Dave wrote: "There are other shows like the Allentown Train show, and the train meets in York Pa. and Gettysburg that are pretty good. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for." I went to Allentown and G'burg last year. Allentown too much Tinplate! Gettysburg is done by the same guy who runs Timonium ALL SCALE!!!!!! Chris Chany ----------------- http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:16:20 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] PRR Sleepers Brian, I don't recall seeing answers for your 1957 timeframe question, so here's from the July, 1957 Offical Guide. Erie-NY=21 roomettes Erie-Wash=cafe coach There were also 10roomette-5 db cars running Buffalo to Washington and Buffalo to Philley, as well as a 6db-lounge running Buffalo-Wash, along with a couple coachs. Looks like coach passengers for Philley and New York had to change at harrisburg. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:16:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] EQ=PRR N8 Hi Lists, I am far enough along on my scratch built PRR N8 Cabin that I can share some sneak peak photos of it. First I want to thank some people for the answers to certain questions I had via these lists. Thanks Bob J for the color scheme on what gets painted what. Bill L on the Battery Box pic. I hope I took you guys advice well and put it to good use. Here is the URL if you wish to visit. Again, the project isn't quite done so somethings will be changed/adjusted a bit. But overall you will get the idea of what I was trying to build. Thanks, Gary 1:29th G Scale N8 Photos: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/GN8-index.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/iZp8OC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:05:57 -0600 Subject: [PRR] I-1sa fans From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" I have scanned another photo. I can't read the number plate, but the photographer wrote #3445 on the back of the photo. It was taken at Galliitzin, PA, in 1940, and shows an engine blasting forth from the now unused left side tunnel, smoke billowing into the sky. I particularly like this one because it reminds me of my kid days watching trains emerge from Corliss Tunnel on the Panhandle Branch, smoke billowing into the sky. A copy can be had for the price of an e-mail. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:29:58 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR H42 Assignments are mostly a mystery In a message dated 2/27/02 1:56:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, mtevans@jps.net writes: << Dear Rick, Thanks for the reply. I believe that the cars PRR 260121-260320 referred to in your post below are H44's. The H42's aren't listed in the drawing that you mentioned. The H42 class is PRR 260001-260090. H42A's are 260091-260120. I thought that you might have come across some H42 assignment in the research for your upcoming article. I'm definitely looking forward to it! Thanks again, Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA >> Mark, What a bummer - I was rechecking some data when I realized -- less than 24 hours before receiving your email -- that I'd grabbed a citation from the wrong number series. It turns out that the source of initial assignment points I used does not deal with H42 or H42A "return to " assignments. Actually, the closest thing to an H42 RWET is the RWET Shackamaxon Station Philadephia Pa. marking shown on PRR 260097, visible on p 76 of PRR Color Guide Vol. 3 -- as you already know, this is an H42A car. We have no way of knowing how many other cars were similarly assigned. Of course, we both know that as soon as the Keystone article appears, a bounty of additional info will be offered -- the info and pictures you want most always appear out of other collections AFTER you send the article off to the printer's. Let's hope some RWET info helpful to the H42 classes will surface. Then we can start worrying about how to create a decal for hopper car "return to" with clear letters and a yellow field. Sorry for the confusion. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:29:58 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR H42 Assignments are mostly a mystery In a message dated 2/27/02 1:56:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, mtevans@jps.net writes: << Dear Rick, Thanks for the reply. I believe that the cars PRR 260121-260320 referred to in your post below are H44's. The H42's aren't listed in the drawing that you mentioned. The H42 class is PRR 260001-260090. H42A's are 260091-260120. I thought that you might have come across some H42 assignment in the research for your upcoming article. I'm definitely looking forward to it! Thanks again, Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA >> Mark, What a bummer - I was rechecking some data when I realized -- less than 24 hours before receiving your email -- that I'd grabbed a citation from the wrong number series. It turns out that the source of initial assignment points I used does not deal with H42 or H42A "return to " assignments. Actually, the closest thing to an H42 RWET is the RWET Shackamaxon Station Philadephia Pa. marking shown on PRR 260097, visible on p 76 of PRR Color Guide Vol. 3 -- as you already know, this is an H42A car. We have no way of knowing how many other cars were similarly assigned. Of course, we both know that as soon as the Keystone article appears, a bounty of additional info will be offered -- the info and pictures you want most always appear out of other collections AFTER you send the article off to the printer's. Let's hope some RWET info helpful to the H42 classes will surface. Then we can start worrying about how to create a decal for hopper car "return to" with clear letters and a yellow field. Sorry for the confusion. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:55:33 -0500 From: Mike Subject: [PRR] Pictures of Orangeville Hi - Just joined the list and was going through the archives, and I noticed a request for pics of Orangeville. I took some pics back in '83 when I was in school in Baltimore and have been meaning to put them on the Web for others to see....and since there was a specific request for these pics it gave me the push I needed to get it done. The pictures are on my website: http://www.geocities.com/navyfan696/orangeville.html The pictures on the page are thumbnailed and clicking on them will open the big picture in a new browser window....and trust me when I say they're BIG - but I did that in case anyone wants to see detail. I realize the request is about a year old, but I just saw it; I apologize for not being more timely, but I hope you all find the pictures at least interesting, if not useful. Regards, Mike Calo Annapolis MD ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: [PRR] New Website for Modelers Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:53:44 -0600 For those interested in modeling, check out http://www.steamfreightcars.com/ . Lots of good modeling info, even some PRR photos. As an example, there is a good series of photos of PRR gons. Good stuff. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:30:32 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Camden, NJ Maps From: "Douglas Nelson" Can someone point me to a map of Camden, NJ that shows the relative locations of the passenger terminal, ALAN Tower, and the locomotive terminal in the mid-1950s? Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy S Models X-29 Update Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 06:50:16 -0500 Hi Everyone, I am VERY happy to announce that the photos of the second X-29 pilot model have been posted to our website. www.pennsysmodels.com It is MUCH improved over the first pilot model that was hand built from scratch in 5 weeks. You can compare as we have left photos of the first pilot model on the same page. The punched rivets are clean and tight for that added third dimension. Our punched rivets are a first in S Scale. We are going to produce the Railway Express version first, followed by the freight versions. We have also added information on our second project, the PRR G-26 and G-26a gondola. Dan and I would like to thank our current customers for their patience as we find our way through our first project. We still have a few cars available if you are interested. The X-29 order form is available as a PDF download file on the first page. Please fell free to call or email us with any questions you may have. Thank You Bill Lane Dan Mastrobouno Pennsy S Models ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:30:57 -0800 Subject: [PRR] PRR's Broad Way From: Greg Ritacco Here's an easy one. Regarding PRR's 4 track main. How were the tracks numbered and what was the direction of travel? More importantly, where should I have read this? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:44:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR's Broad Way From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" on 2/28/02 9:30 PM, Greg Ritacco at gregr@surewest.net wrote: > Here's an easy one. Regarding PRR's 4 track main. How were the tracks > numbered and what was the direction of travel? More importantly, where > should I have read this? Thanks. > > On east-west lines, the southern-most track was Track #1 and the northern-most was Track #4. On north-south lines, I beleive the western-most track was Track #1 and eastern-most was Track #2. The traqck designations are listed in the Employee Timetables. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank & Andrea Amato" Subject: [PRR] Kalmbach Blue Ribbon Fleet book Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:29:44 -0600 Hi all, I'm interested in a quick review of this book - it looks like a great reference for mainline PRR passenger trains. Specifically, does the book cover late 1950s rosters and operations? Frank ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:49:16 EST Subject: [PRR] Congo/Senator --part1_18b.41d2931.29b0543c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PRR List, I have not found a good photo of the ends of a car from the Congressional or Sentor Budd cars. What color(s) were the diaphrams on the Budd cars? Assume they were painted to match the stainless steel car body. Many thanks, Evan Leisey --part1_18b.41d2931.29b0543c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PRR List,

  I have not found a good photo of the ends of a car from the Congressional or Sentor Budd cars.

  What color(s) were the diaphrams on the Budd cars?  Assume they were painted to match the stainless steel car body.

Many thanks,

Evan Leisey --part1_18b.41d2931.29b0543c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!!