From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 06:58:15 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Calendar of paintings Last year I had gotten a calendar made up entirely of PRR paintings of various artists. I can't seem to find it this year and I can't remember the printer. Can anybody help me out? Regards, Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 07:53:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Calendar of paintings From: Jerry Britton On 2/1/02 6:58 AM, Nick Kulp (caseyj@igateway.com) wrote: > Last year I had gotten a calendar made up entirely of PRR paintings of various > artists. I can't seem to find it this year and I can't remember the printer. > Can anybody help me out? > "Merchandise Service" has the Weekend Chief calendar. The 2002 theme is 12 paintings which were ads in the 1940's and 1950's. I don't know what they did in 2001, but the concept sounds similar. Size is about 11" by 17". Price is $10. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] WW2 Army hospital cars Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:07:29 -0600 The cars in the first picture resemble New York City IRT subway cars. -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:45 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] WW2 Army hospital cars My attention was caught by: http://image.vtls.com/VTLS/SC/16/092.jpg These cars look odd. There are other photos of hospital cars which resemble ordinary coaches. For example: http://image.vtls.com/VTLS/SC/13/047.jpg The ones which puzzle me ride on what appear to be freight car trucks. The truck side frames appear to be even with the car sides. If so, the cars must be quite narrow. They don't even look much like box cars, particularly the roof. They appear to be made up of flat panels, rising to a peak, but with two slopes, that is, a steep slope up from the eaves, then a much gentler slope to the peak. All in all, they look odd. I wonder, might these have been designed for use overseas? Perhaps they were, but by the time they were built, there was no need for them there so they were put into service here? I recall seeing numerous hospital trains on the PRR main line at Latrobe back in the '40's, but these cars ring no bell. (Or my memory is worse than I hope it is.) Any thoughts, WW2 army equipment gurus? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:22:11 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: TAN Re: [PRR] WW2 Army hospital cars Bob, >My attention was caught by: > >http://image.vtls.com/VTLS/SC/16/092.jpg > >These cars look odd. There are other photos of >hospital cars which resemble ordinary coaches. For >example: I looked at this photo and thought..."poor Bob is slipping...these aren't American built cars...the photo must be shot in Europe"...WRONG! Its clearly shot in the USA (C&O car behind the train, american auto in the distance...). Daggummit those cars look European! The caption states that the train is undergoing a test run on the C&O. The second shot of a hospital car is a converted Pullman (You can see the hasty paint out and relettering). I was only aware of the group of hospital cars built in 1944/45 on the same plan as the AC&F kitchen cars. These are clearly NOT those cars... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Calendar of paintings Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 10:41:29 -0500 Hi Nick, I think the calendar you are refering to was put out by John Scala...The Weekend Chief. He did color all Pennsy Calendars for about 10 years. Last year, 2001, was the Pennsy Painting edition. This year he is doing a vintage advertising calendar showing adds from WWII in color for $11.95 You can reach him at www.weekendchief@earthlink.net Hope this helps. Buzz PRRT&HS #271 -----Original Message----- From: Nick Kulp [mailto:caseyj@igateway.com] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 6:58 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] PRR Calendar of paintings Last year I had gotten a calendar made up entirely of PRR paintings of various artists. I can't seem to find it this year and I can't remember the printer. Can anybody help me out? Regards, Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:01:22 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: TAN Re: [PRR] WW2 Army hospital cars --- "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > Bob, > > I looked at this photo and thought..."poor Bob is > slipping...these aren't > American built cars...the photo must be shot in > Europe"...WRONG! Its > clearly shot in the USA (C&O car behind the train, > american auto in the > distance...). Daggummit those cars look European! Yep, all of that. > The caption states that > the train is undergoing a test run on the C&O. The Drat! I had read the caption and somehow looked right past "...trial run to Richmond...". So yes, poor Bob is slipping, but not as you had supposed. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:14:33 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Abbott's Alderney Dairy, the PRR customer Go to: http://www.mgdecals.com/abbotts1.htm for a photo of two milk cars operated by the company. I do not know where nor when the photo was taken. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] SPF's in Minneapolis Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:40:55 +0000 Are there any SPF's in the Minneapolis area that can contact me off line? I am considering a job switch to that area and have some questions. thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:55:16 EST Subject: [PRR] Today's Logansport Map In a message dated 1/10/02 4:03:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, JDPanza writes: << Rick: Here is the info I received from Transco. The former PRR line west of 18th Street belongs to the TP&W. The former PRR line east of 18th Street is the Central Railroad Company out of Lawrenceburg (spelling?), IN. That used to be the Winamac Southern Railway Company of Kokomo. The NS serves Transco as does the TP&W. >> Thanks Jim, I did receive the above message, and although I thought I had acknowledged it, the record says otherwise. It interests me that the splice between the two PRR segments still operated at Logansport should be at 18th Street. Still, I'm guessing, this gives the TP&W all of Yard B (or what's left of it), with the Transco facility/ancient PCC&StL Logansport shops up against 18th. I assume the 18th street meeting of the TP&W and the Central Railroad Company is on the south side of the Wabash River, across the street bridge from Transco and near where RACE tower was. The grain elevator which still stood east of the street here in 1982 was on the northwest corner of Yard A, and in the back still had an X26 boxcar with the remnant of its CK revenue paintscheme -- the only revenue X26 (unrebuilt) I ever saw. Thanks again for the update on Logansport's status -- it was very kind of you to investigate. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Painting of Broad Street Station, Philadelphia, by Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 15:42:03 -0500 I think I saw this painting at Timonium. If this is the same guy who had the print of the Harrisburg station with the T1 at last years PRRT&HS. It's a beauty!! Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: prrbill [mailto:prrbill@Op.Net] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:05 PM To: Lewis J. Matt PhD Cc: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Painting of Broad Street Sataion, Philadelphia, by PeterLerro "Lewis J. Matt PhD" wrote: > > Dear Friends of the PRR: > > I commissioned a watercolor from Pete Lerro entitled "The Broad Street > Station". It contains all my favorite juice jacks lined up at the station > ca 1935. Pete Lerro, the artist, is coming to my home this weekend to > deliver the painting. Pete does exceptional work in "pure" watercolors and > his work clearly shows his love of the Pennsy. I will have a reception on > Saturday, Feb. 1st, from 1 to 4 pm, for any one interested, to see the > painting and meet Pete. I have an extensive collection of original PRR art > and PRR calendars on display. Come one and all! RSVP E-mail me if you > need more directions. (My home is located in the extreme south west corner > of Pennsylvania but easily reached from Pittsburgh and Wheeling WVa via > interstate highways, about one hour travel time) > > Lew Lew, You have all us SPF's drooling. Knowing Peter and his work, you're one fortunate guy. Best, Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 15:49:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Painting of Broad Street Station, Philadelphia, by From: Jerry Britton On 2/1/02 3:42 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > I think I saw this painting at Timonium. If this is the same guy who had > the print of the Harrisburg station with the T1 at last years PRRT&HS. It's > a beauty!! > That's the guy! I have a copy of the Harrisburg print on my office wall. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:29:58 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Abbott milk cars wb3iqe@rocketmail.com Abbott's Alderney Dairy, the PRR customer Hi Bob, Neat photo. See also Model Railroading 1989/07 Milk car photos of model car sides pg24 (Bordens, Abbotts, Sheffield) Railway Model Journal 1990/10 Milk car offloading photo/txt; Abbott & Borden cars, R50b, milk trucks Thanks again. - Claus ------- Go to: http://www.mgdecals.com/abbotts1.htm for a photo of two milk cars operated by the company. I do not know where nor when the photo was taken. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 04:17:30 EST Subject: [PRR] Troop sleepers and kitchen cars and their conversions While on the subject, if you haven't seen them, following are some shots from the Otto Perry collection at the Denver Public Library site: Late model troop kitchen: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00019589 Troop sleeper: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00014522 A shot of a CB&Q express car converted from a troop kitchen car, seen on Pennsy East-West trains: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00004852 What looks to be another shot of a CB&Q car: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00004853 The CB&Q car is also shown in two videos behind T1s, both on the Curve, one purported to be the Gotham Limited. As shown, the windows are not plated over, but in later years I suspect they were. I haven't got any evidence for the latter,however. Gotta check with a CB&Q fan. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] Pbgh trolley - hopefully corrected Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 16:50:36 -0000 Thanks to everyone who responded telling me how to paint the Pittsburgh trolley. Been busy slapping new paint and other bits on the old girl and hopefully I've made a better attempt this time. Pictures have been placed at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/p87/gallery12.htm showing the little beastie on the trolley tacks at E. Carson St. on my Fed. St. P87 layout The shots showing that previous yellow and cream disaster have been cast into the abyss. My excuse is .....the video of 'The Trolleys of Pennsylvania" which I was using as my only source of info. labelled certain yellow and cream trolleys as being in 'Pittsburgh'. Later shots show very similar trolleys in 'Altoona' so the seeds of doubt should have been sown ( but weren't ). But masses of good info. came my way ..... thanks once again to everyone ...... yet another example of the power of the internet. Regards, John H. Wright, Washington, England. Web sites at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ and http://www.xclent.clara.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Troop sleepers and kitchen cars and their conversions Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 12:24:12 -0600 Wasn't Ralph Barger supposed to publish an all inclusive book on the troop sleepers? Anyone know the status of his project? -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 3:18 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Troop sleepers and kitchen cars and their conversions While on the subject, if you haven't seen them, following are some shots from the Otto Perry collection at the Denver Public Library site: Late model troop kitchen: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00019589 Troop sleeper: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00014522 A shot of a CB&Q express car converted from a troop kitchen car, seen on Pennsy East-West trains: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00004852 What looks to be another shot of a CB&Q car: http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00004853 The CB&Q car is also shown in two videos behind T1s, both on the Curve, one purported to be the Gotham Limited. As shown, the windows are not plated over, but in later years I suspect they were. I haven't got any evidence for the latter,however. Gotta check with a CB&Q fan. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 16:01:13 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re:AHM/IHC/Rivarossi List of Cars-Long Hello again, Please open your message box full-width for easier viewing. I have taken Andy Harman's & others advice and simplified my list of Jan. 15. This list includes the 20 original AHM/IHC Rivie cars plus the 24 new IHC Chinese cars. I also have included the paint scheme variations of all cars for my own purposes.Please note how I have listed the group numbers for easier seperation. Model numbers date from the 1960's to the present. Please understand that this is a PRR oriented list and model numbers include only PRR cars. If you can add or correct any info to this list, please let me know via the list or direct E-mail. There are many question marks in this list. It would be nice to complete the prototype info for everybody to use. Hope to hear from a lot of you PRR experts and mavens. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO 1. AHM/Rivarossi- "1920 HW" -1960's thru 1994- 1st & 2nd tooling (8 different cars) 633- series has interiors & lights. AHM/Riv. Baggage-Express-620622-6567 HW 70' Baggage, B-8A, B B&O AHM/Riv. RPO-Baggage-2806 HW 70' RPO, E-7A, B B&O, GN??? AHM/Riv. Combine-620322-633322--2723 HW Rider car ATSF #2602-08 AHM/Riv. Coach-620522-633522-2738 Pullman, lot 3711 HW 72' Coach-78 seat ?? SOU #1367-1424?? AHM/Riv. Diner-620422-633422-2726 Pullman 3391 HW 83' Diner, 36 seat ATSF #1456-63 #1400-18 AHM/Riv. Pullman-620122-633122-2724-6046 Pullman 3410B-2410? HW 12Sec-1Dr-"Logan" PRR IHC/Riv. Pullman-6612 Pullman 3410B HW 12-1-"Lambs Club" PRR AHM/Riv. Dupl. Sl.-2820 Pullman 4029 HW 16 Dup.-"Eventide & Nocturne" PRR AHM/Riv. Obs.-620222-633222-2725 Pullman 3391 HW 3-2-Obs-Z74D ATSF #1513-14 2. AHM/Rivarossi- "1930 LW Streamliners" Smoothside Cars - 1960's thru1994- 1st & 2nd tooling (8 different cars) AHM/Riv. Baggage-2824-6604 ACF LW 70' Baggage UP #5711-5745 AHM/Riv. RPO--2741 Altoona HW/LW 70' RPO, BM70NB-"#6523" PRR #6518 AHM/RIV. Coach-2761 LW P85A Coach-"no numbers" CN?-5400 series,UP?? AHM/RIV. Diner-2816 ACF LW Diner UP #4800-4816 AHM/RIV. Dome-2795 ACF/Pullman LW Dome lounge UP # 7000-7009, AHM/RIV. Sleeper-2746 ACF Sim. To Pull 4140 LW 10Rmt-6Br-"Huron-Penns-Catawissa"PRR "___ Rapids" IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6616 ACF Sim. To Pull 4140 LW 10-6."Colonial Houses" PRR IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6617 " " LW Sl. 10-6."Imperial Loch" PRR-Interchange paint IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6618 " " LW Sl. 10-6."Imperial Park" PRR-Interchange paint IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6619 " " LW Sl. 10-6."Buffalo Rapids" PRR-Interchange paint IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6613 " " LW Sl. 10-6."Blue Rapids" PRR-Interchange paint AHM/RIV. Dup.-2802 Pullman 4066B LW 12DupRmt-5Br-"Morrow" PRR, "___Brook" AHM/RIV. Obs.-2745-2747 Pullman 4133 1948 B.L. LW 2Mr-1Br-Buf-LngeObs."Tower-Mountain"PRR "__ View" 2A. IHC/Rivarossi-"1940 LW Smoothsides" "East Wind" -1992-1996 (Same cars as 1930 LW Smoothsides) 1st tooling IHC/Riv. Baggage-5632 ACF LW 70' Baggage UP??? IHC/Riv. Coach-5633 LW P85A Coach UP??? IHC/Riv. Diner-5631 ACF LW Diner UP??? IHC/Riv. Obs.-5634 LW 2Mr-1Br-Buf-LngeObs. ??? 3. IHC/Rivarossi- "1940 Budd Congressionals" Corrugated Sides -1990-1996- 1st tooling (4 different cars) IHC/Riv. Coach-6731 Pullman7457 A LW-flute 72' Coach,56 seat "Standish" SOU, PRR, NYC??? IHC/Riv. Coach-6731-1 Pullman7457 A LW-flute 72' Coach, 56 seat-"Prinz" SOU, PRR, NYC??? IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6732 Budd 9502,9510 LW-flute 10Rmt-6Br-"Scioto Rapids" NYC Hybrid, Valley IHC/Riv. Sleeper6732-1 Budd 9502,9510 LW-flute 10-6-"Lafayette" NYC Hybrid, Valley IHC/Riv. Diner-6730 Budd Fair for "Senator" LW-flute Diner Grill-"M.Washington" NYC #450-467 IHC/Riv. Pullman-6614 Pullman HW-St.St. Sl. 12-1 "John Hancock" PRR IHC/Riv. Obs.-6733 Budd LW-flute Obs-G. Washington" Hybrid-RDG Crusader 3A. IHC/Rivarossi-"1940 Budd Fleet of Modernization" Corrugated Sides -1991-1996-1st tooling (Same cars as Congos) IHC/Riv. Coach-6861 Pullman7457A, Budd?? LW-flute Coach, 56 seat-"#4010" PRR??? IHC/Riv. Sleeper-6862 Budd 9502,9510 LW-flute Sl. 10Rmt-6Br-#4022" NYC Hybrid, IHC/Riv. Diner-6860 Budd LW-flute Diner Grill-"#4501" NYC IHC/Riv. Obs.-6863 Budd LW-flute Obs-"#1126" Hybrid 4. IHC "HW Pullman Standard" -2000- 1st tooling (IHC Chinese cars) IHC Baggage-49540 HW Baggage B&O??? IHC RPO-49545 HW RPO B&O??? IIHC Combine-49542 HW Combine ??? IHC Coach-49541 HW Coach, 78-seat ??? IHC Sleeper-49547 Pullman-3410A HW Sl. 12-1-Cpt-Anthony Wayne-#8722 B&O-S14C??? IIHC Diner-49543 HW Diner, 36 seat B&O Colonial??? IHC Sleeper-49546 Pullman-3979A HW Sl. 8-1-2-Dr-Royal Oak-#8610 B&O Ambassador??? IHC Obs.-49544 HW 3-2-Obs. ??? 5. IHC- "LW Pullman Standard" "Corrugated Sides -2000- (IHC Chinese cars) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-47900 Plan 7463 LW-flute Baggage Mail 60' SOU-1750-51??? IHC RPO-47905 Plan 7462 LW-flute RPO SOU??? IHC Combine-47904 Plan 7455 LW-flute Combine-bagg,-dorm-22 seat coach ??? IHC Coach-47901 Budd-Plan 7457A LW-flute Coach, 56 seat ??? IHC Sleeper-47906 Budd-Plan 4100B LW-flute 24 Duplex Roomette Sleeper ??? IHC Diner-47902 Budd-Plan 7458 LW-flute Diner Grill-48 seat ??? IHC Dome-47907 Budd-Plan 7616 LW-flute Dome Bar Lounge ??? IHC Obs.-47903 Budd-Plan 4115 LW-flute Sl. 4 Dr-1Br-Obs-Lounge ??? 5A. IHC "LW Pullman Standard" "Congressionals" Corrugated Sides -2000- (IHC Chinese cars-Same cars as PS Corrugated) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-47740 Plan 7463 LW-flute Baggage Mail 60' SOU-1750-51??? IHC RPO-47745 Plan 7462 LW-flute RPO SOU-1700-01??? IHC Combine-47744 Plan 7455 LW-flute Combine-bagg,-dorm-22 seat coach SOU-700-705??? IHC Coach-47741 Budd-Plan 7457A LW-flute Coach, 56 seat PRR-SOU-800-814??? IHC Sleeper-47746 Budd -Plan 4100B LW-flute 24 Duplex Roomette Sleeper ATSF, Indian Series?? IHC Diner-47742 Budd-Plan 7458 LW-flute Diner Grill-48 seat NYC-SOU-3300-04??? IHC Dome-47747 Budd-Plan 7616 LW-flute Dome Bar Lounge ATSF-500-525??? IHC Obs.-47743 Budd-Plan 4115 LW-flute Sl. 4 Dr-1Br-Obs-Lounge ATSF-Vista Series??? 5B. IHC "LW Pullman Standard""Fleet of Modernism" Corrugated Sides-2000-(IHC Chinese cars-Same cars as PS Corrugated) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-47730 Plan 7463 LW-flute Baggage Mail 60' ??? IHC RPO-47735 Plan 7462 LW-flute RPO ??? IHC Combine-47734 Plan 7455 LW-flute Combine-bagg,-dorm-22 seat coach??? IHC Coach-47731 Budd-Plan 7457A LW-flute Coach, 56 seat PRR??? IHC Sleeper-47736 Budd-Plan 4100B LW-flute 24 Duplex Roomette Sleeper ??? IHC Diner-47732 Budd-Plan 7458 LW-flute Diner Grill-48 seat ??? IHC Dome-47737 Budd-Plan 7616 LW-flute Dome Bar Lounge ??? IHC Obs.-47733 Budd-Plan 4115 LW-flute Sl. 4 Dr-1Br-Obs-Lounge ??? 6. IHC "Pullman Standard Smoothsides" -2000- (IHC Chinese cars) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-48210 LW Baggage ??? IHC Combine-48214 LW Combine ??? IHC RPO-48215 LW RPO ??? IHC Coach-48211 LW Coach ??? IIHC Diner-48212 LW Diner ??? IHC Dome-48217 LW Dome ??? IHC Duplex-48216 LW Sl. 24Dup.Rmt.?? Cross Creek-#8383 B&O ?(Hungerford) ?? IHC Obs.-48213 LW Observation ??? 6A. IHC "Pullman Standard Smoothsides" "Eastwind" -2000- (IHC Chinese cars-Same cars as smoothside) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-48320 LW Baggage ??? IHC Combine-48324 LW Combine ??? IHC RPO-48325 LW RPO ??? IHC Coach-48321 LW Coach ??? IHC Diner-48322 LW Diner ??? IHC Dome-48327 LW Dome ??? IHC Duplex-48326 LW Sl. 24Dup.Rmt.?? ??? IHC Obs.-48323 LW Observation ??? 6B. IHC "Pullman Standard Smoothsides" "Fleet of Modernism" -2000- IHC Chinese cars-Same cars as smoothside) 1st tooling IHC Baggage-48310 LW Baggage ??? IHC Combine-48314 LW Combine ??? IHC RPO-48315 LW RPO ??? IHC Coach-48311 LW Coach ??? IIHC Diner-48312 LW Diner ??? IHC Dome-48317 LW Dome ??? IHC Duplex-48316 LW Sl. 24Dup.Rmt ??? IHC Obs.-48313 LW Observation ??? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere Check Email & Transfer files - Free Download http://us.click.yahoo.com/1njxPB/wakDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 22:51:32 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Subject: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... Will wonders never cease! I was at the Amhearst show in Springfield Mass today and Funaro & Camerlengo was there selling their redone H30a covered hoppers! The detail on the castings looks much better than the original kit. Hopefully it goes together easier! I'm just starting to clean the castings so I can't say yet... The instructions look to be much improved also... They had them at the show for 2/$30... not a bad deal. Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 22:11:29 -0600 Hi Rob--That was really unexpected. Please give us a "product review" when you can. I need some! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 17:04:51 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Subject: [PRR] Stewart's new HO DS-4-4-1000... Hi, One other new PRR product at the Springfield show was that Stewart's doing DS-4-4-1000's in HO! They're being done by Ajin like the VO-1000's. He only had an undec unit for display but it looked great to me! I think there will be 2 #'s in Pennsy... See his site for more... http://www.stewarthobbies.com/ANNOUNCE.HTM Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 18:20:05 -0500 From: Charles Ring Subject: [PRR] Somerset Railroad? Today I was stopped at a grade crossing next to (i think) the former PRR station in Brookfield, Ohio, and saw a long coal train. I didnt see the locomotives; all i saw was a very long string of identical loaded coal cars with a name and logo i've never seen before - Somerset Railroad, with an SR logo in which the lower part of the R was in the shape of an old "cow catcher" pilot. Each car had a three-digit number, another thing i never saw before. Is this really a new railroad or what? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Somerset Railroad? Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 18:56:17 -0500 Charles, The Somerset Railroad serves a power plant near Lockport, New York. It was built by the power company (Niagara Mohawk??) from a connection with Conrail to the plant. It is a common carrier, but I believe the power plant is its only customer. AFAIK, this was done so that the cars could earn car hire while roaming around on other railroads. This railroad was non-existent in the PRR era, but has been around a couple of decades.. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Ring" To: "PRR Talk" Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 6:20 PM Subject: [PRR] Somerset Railroad? > Today I was stopped at a grade crossing next to (i think) the former PRR > station in Brookfield, Ohio, and saw a long coal train. I didnt see the > locomotives; all i saw was a very long string of identical loaded coal > cars with a name and logo i've never seen before - Somerset Railroad, > with an SR logo in which the lower part of the R was in the shape of an > old "cow catcher" pilot. Each car had a three-digit number, another > thing i never saw before. Is this really a new railroad or what? > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Caliciotti Jr." Subject: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 03:49:53 +0000 Were any Pennsy K-4s ever painted Bruswick Green? Or were they all black? Thanks, Sam _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 00:24:40 -0500 Sam, They were ALL painted Dark Green Locomotive Enamel (DGLE), sometimes called Brunswick Green. The frames, wheels and trucks were painted black. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Caliciotti Jr." To: Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 10:49 PM Subject: [PRR] pennsy k-4s > > Were any Pennsy K-4s ever painted Bruswick Green? Or were they all > black? > > Thanks, Sam > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:14:44 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... Rob, We must have rubbed shoulders at the F&C booth! I picked up 2 myself. I wonder how many other SPFs were there and did not know how to recognize each other. I was wearing a keystone and my name tag from my club. F&C Has made its biggest improvement in its instructions. For those of you who had built older F&C Kits you will know how easy that is to believe ;-) They are now typeset and include a photograph of the parts with each identified. On a additional note, I also picked up one of the Trainstuff 90F82 tenders. It will take a LOT more work than the H30. I am far from thrilled with the castings, but it's the only game in town and I think with enough effort something beautiful can come of it. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Will wonders never cease! I was at the Amhearst show in Springfield > Mass today and Funaro & Camerlengo was there selling their redone > H30a covered hoppers! The detail on the castings looks much better > than the original kit. Hopefully it goes together easier! I'm just > starting to clean the castings so I can't say yet... The instructions > look to be much improved also... They had them at the show for 2/$30... > not a bad deal. > > Rob > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:52:57 -0500 Andrew, Group, I am glad I am not the only one that was not thrilled with the quality of the castings from trainstuff. I would have thought for 60.00 it would have been a bit better than it was. But I guess beggers can't be choosers. Sam Vastano >From: "Andrew S. Miller" >To: Rob Schoenberg >CC: prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... >Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:14:44 -0500 > >Rob, > >We must have rubbed shoulders at the F&C booth! I picked up 2 myself. I >wonder how many other SPFs were there and did not know how to recognize >each >other. I was wearing a keystone and my name tag from my club. > >F&C Has made its biggest improvement in its instructions. For those of you >who had built older F&C Kits you will know how easy that is to believe ;-) >They are now typeset and include a photograph of the parts with each >identified. > >On a additional note, I also picked up one of the Trainstuff 90F82 tenders. >It will take a LOT more work than the H30. I am far from thrilled with the >castings, but it's the only game in town and I think with enough effort >something beautiful can come of it. > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org > >================================================== > > >Rob Schoenberg wrote: > > > Will wonders never cease! I was at the Amhearst show in Springfield > > Mass today and Funaro & Camerlengo was there selling their redone > > H30a covered hoppers! The detail on the castings looks much better > > than the original kit. Hopefully it goes together easier! I'm just > > starting to clean the castings so I can't say yet... The instructions > > look to be much improved also... They had them at the show for 2/$30... > > not a bad deal. > > > > Rob > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > >-- > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Sam Vastano McClymonds Supply & Transit Co., Inc. PH 724-368-8040 X243 Fax 724-368-9677 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 09:34:05 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Trainstuff 90F82 (was:F&C H30a's) The specifics on the tender as I see it was that the floor casting thickness was very uneven. It is far thicker at one end than the other. I will try sanding it down on my belt sander. If that doesn't work I will just have to fabricate a new floor. Perhaps I will make it of brass and deal with the weight issue that way. Trainsstuff's solution to the weight was to provide a steel weight inside the tender. The truck screw into the weight thus providing the electrical continuity. But I would have to glue the weight down, otherwise whenever I remove the trucks, weight would fall off inside! The other major casting problem is in the front steps. The insides of many of the steps contain excess casting resin which is almost impossible to carve away in the small hollow of the step. Lastly, beware that the "barebones" kit sold at the show not only doesn't have the hatches, scoop, doghouse, etc, which I expected. These fitting varied and were not all present on all tenders (well - yes, they all had a water hatch). But it is also missing the rear stirrups, end sill and footboards. I repeat, I am disappointed, but still convinced that I will be able to make something worthwhile out of this kit. In fairness to Dayna, I must mention that the level of detail is excellent. The rivets look very good and the coal board the thin and delicate, and very prototypical looking. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Sam Vastano wrote: > Andrew, Group, > > I am glad I am not the only one that was not thrilled with the quality of > the castings from trainstuff. I would have thought for 60.00 it would have > been a bit better than it was. But I guess beggers can't be choosers. > > Sam Vastano > > >From: "Andrew S. Miller" > >To: Rob Schoenberg > >CC: prr-talk@dsop.com > >Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30a's.... > >Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:14:44 -0500 > > > >Rob, > > > >We must have rubbed shoulders at the F&C booth! I picked up 2 myself. I > >wonder how many other SPFs were there and did not know how to recognize > >each > >other. I was wearing a keystone and my name tag from my club. > > > >F&C Has made its biggest improvement in its instructions. For those of you > >who had built older F&C Kits you will know how easy that is to believe ;-) > >They are now typeset and include a photograph of the parts with each > >identified. > > > >On a additional note, I also picked up one of the Trainstuff 90F82 tenders. > >It will take a LOT more work than the H30. I am far from thrilled with the > >castings, but it's the only game in town and I think with enough effort > >something beautiful can come of it. > > > >Regards, > > > >Andy Miller > >asmiller@mitre.org > > > >================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "TJ LInk" Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:04:42 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1AD6B.BF0EAB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, List, I am in the process of building my first Bowser engine, = an I-1 decapod. I've never done any painting before, and I'm still in = the process of finding the right airbrush. I've narrowed my choice down = to Paasche, but can't decide on the model. Any suggestions? Next, I = have the deluxe kit, and it makes no mention of how to fasten all of the = detail parts. What type of adhesive should I use? CA? Solder? = Painting is an issue that is still out in the distance, but is looming = ever larger. One last thing to add to the mess of questions, What's = all this business I've heard about "Helix Humpers"?. = Many thanks = Matt Link ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1AD6B.BF0EAB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg, List,
           &n= bsp;   =20 I am in the process of building my first Bowser engine, an I-1 = decapod. =20 I've never done any painting before, and I'm still in the process of = finding the=20 right airbrush.  I've narrowed my choice down to Paasche, but can't = decide=20 on the model.  Any suggestions?   Next, I have the deluxe = kit,=20 and it makes no mention of how to fasten all of the detail parts.  = What=20 type of adhesive should I use?  CA?  Solder?  Painting is = an=20 issue that is still out in the distance, but is looming ever = larger.  One=20 last thing to add to the mess of questions,  What's all this = business I've=20 heard about "Helix Humpers"?.
            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             Many = thanks
            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     Matt=20 Link
 
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1AD6B.BF0EAB00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:53:59 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s --------------CEBEA30C17F69598CE7C1DC2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alright. I must enter what appears from a small sample (of two) to be a minority opinion. I have used a Pasche model H for over 35 years and have been very happy with it. The model H is their single action brush, i.e. the trigger only adjusts the amount of air. The amount of paint is controlled by a screw action nozzle tip. I have used both, having borrowed a dual action on occasion from a friend (when I forgot to bring by tool box keys to the club room). I see two big advantages to the single action. First, all of the moving parts are external to the brush, making it much easier to clean. An improperly cleaned brush will give very poor results. Second, the dual action requires a very steady finger to keep the flow of paint and air consistent. They are really designed for water color artists (remember Playboy's Vargas girls?). For spraying broad areas with lacquers like Floquil, presetting the amount of paint and varying only the air during a painting session works a lot better. Lacquers are likely to really gum up the delicate internal parts of a dual action brush. In addition you have the lesser consideration that a single action brush will be less expensive. The choice of brush type is the only minority opinion I have. I concur with both of the other posters about solder or ACC. Bowser's newest locos have Zamak boilers which makes soldering almost impossible. But it remains a good idea, if not a necessity, for the few places where you will join brass to brass. I have put Helix humpers (available from Bowser) in two of my L1's. They do not increase (or decrease) pulling power, but do make performance smoother and make the loco much quieter. Bowsers with their DC70's are notoriously loud. TJ LInk wrote: > Greg, List, I am in the process of building my first > Bowser engine, an I-1 decapod. I've never done any painting before, > and I'm still in the process of finding the right airbrush. I've > narrowed my choice down to Paasche, but can't decide on the model. > Any suggestions? Next, I have the deluxe kit, and it makes no > mention of how to fasten all of the detail parts. What type of > adhesive should I use? CA? Solder? Painting is an issue that is > still out in the distance, but is looming ever larger. One last thing > to add to the mess of questions, What's all this business I've heard > about "Helix > Humpers"?. > Many > thanks > Matt Link -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== --------------CEBEA30C17F69598CE7C1DC2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alright.  I must enter what appears from a small sample (of two) to be a minority opinion.   I have used a Pasche model H for over 35 years and have been very happy with it.  The model H is their single action brush, i.e. the trigger only adjusts the amount of air.  The amount of paint is controlled by a screw action nozzle tip. I have used both, having borrowed a dual action on occasion from a friend (when I forgot to bring by tool box keys to the club room).

I see two big advantages to the single action.  First, all of the moving parts are external to the brush, making it much easier to clean.  An improperly cleaned brush will give very poor results.  Second, the dual action requires a very steady finger to keep the flow of paint and air consistent.  They are really designed for water color artists (remember Playboy's Vargas girls?).  For spraying broad areas with lacquers like Floquil, presetting the amount of paint and varying only the air during a painting session works a lot better.  Lacquers are likely to really gum up the delicate internal parts of a dual action brush.

In addition you have the lesser consideration that a single action brush will be less expensive.

The choice of brush type is the only minority opinion I have.  I concur with both of the other posters about solder or ACC.  Bowser's newest locos have Zamak boilers which makes soldering almost impossible.  But it remains a good idea, if not a necessity, for the few places where you will join brass to brass.

I have put Helix humpers (available from Bowser) in two of my L1's.  They do not increase (or decrease) pulling power, but do make performance smoother and make the loco much quieter.  Bowsers with their DC70's are notoriously loud.
 
 

TJ LInk wrote:

Greg, List,                I am in the process of building my first Bowser engine, an I-1 decapod.  I've never done any painting before, and I'm still in the process of finding the right airbrush.  I've narrowed my choice down to Paasche, but can't decide on the model.  Any suggestions?   Next, I have the deluxe kit, and it makes no mention of how to fasten all of the detail parts.  What type of adhesive should I use?  CA?  Solder?  Painting is an issue that is still out in the distance, but is looming ever larger.  One last thing to add to the mess of questions,  What's all this business I've heard about "Helix Humpers"?.                                                                                                            Many thanks                                                                                                                                Matt Link 

--
 

Regards,

Andy Miller
asmiller@mitre.org

==================================================
  --------------CEBEA30C17F69598CE7C1DC2-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:29:09 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Sullivan Subject: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Hi all, I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. What a neat place! And, on the airbrush thread: I heard somewhere that it is a good idea to *store* your airbrush in a bottle of laquer thinner... is this true? If so, would it be a good idea to store it in laquer thinner for a long period of time, or only for cleaning purposes (a few minutes/hours or so)? THANKS! Ben Sullivan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:34:36 -0500 Bruce:- They were all painted DGLE at one time or another! The 10 tuscan jobs and the "bronze" 3768 were short term aberrations. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." To: "Sam Caliciotti Jr." ; Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s > > Were any Pennsy K-4s ever painted Bruswick Green? Or were they all > >black? > > > >Thanks, Sam > > Um Sam, > > I'll do Gregg one better and point out to you that no (none, zero, zip) PRR > engines were black, no steamers, no electrics and no diseasals (diesel in > Thomas the Tank Engine parlance). Time to hedge that first statement, Very > early paint schemes may have featured black (circa 1900) and there is some > debate about PRR ordered diseasels being painted black in prep for the PC > merger, but then, they weren't PRR...and there are just as many rumors > about shops using up DGLE well into the PC era... > > The PRRT&HS published a guide to painting and lettering PRR steam many > years ago, but it is available in reprint form throught the PRRT&HS. A > search of the PRR talk archive for "color" and "steam" ought to get you a > complete guide to painting Pennsy steam as well. If you have trouble > finding it, give me a holler and I'll forward mine off list. > > Gregg was actually wrong in one respect (he said all K4s were DGLE), as > there is evidence that a few K4s were painted Tuscan to match the passenger > fleet and one of the streamlined K4s was painted bronze (although there is > HUGE debate about what color "bronze" was at the time!). > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:55:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: Jerry Britton On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. > What a neat place! > I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. As for the site... The domain is registered in Massachusetts. However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:22:33 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is visible from NY RT 440? Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > > > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of > > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are > > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > > > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. > > What a neat place! > > > I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > > As for the site... > > The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > > However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) > and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:28:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: Jerry Britton On 2/4/02 3:22 PM, Bennett Levin (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of > Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is > visible from NY RT 440? I don't think so, although I am largely unfamiliar with that area. My thoughts in thinking it was Philadelphia, along the Delaware: 1) The water is fairly smooth. This is somewhat inland. There are tidal affects visible, but not visible effects from waves. Wouldn't the Staten Island location be subject to choppiness? Isn't it closer to the ocean? 2) In one view a green can buoy can be seen near the opposite shore. In another, a red can buoy near the near side. This suggests we are looking downstream. One of the primary rules of navigation is "red right returning" -- keep the red buoys to the right as you proceed inland. 3) Assuming the above is correct, and we are looking downstream, the ore loaders and petrol plants are on the opposite, or east side of the river. I also noted the structure on top of a few poles. While these may be seen in the northeast, they are much more prevalent in the bayou area of, say, New Orleans. Also, the passenger boats do not look like the Mississippi type. However, they are not large enough to be ocean-going...especially when you look at the size of the lifeboats. These could be ferries around NYC, or Philadelphia, or somewhere on the Chesapeake Bay. I've piloted boats on the northern half of the latter and there is no such boat graveyard in that range of territory. > > Jerry Britton wrote: >> >> On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: >> >>> I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. >>> (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay >>> concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be >>> of >>> no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there >>> are >>> some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva >>> region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize >>> configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a >>> look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. >>> >>> http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm >>> >>> BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not >>> reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that >>> too. >>> What a neat place! >>> >> I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. >> >> As for the site... >> >> The domain is registered in Massachusetts. >> >> However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) >> and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is >> along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the >> like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. >> ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:40:08 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Bennett asks: >Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of >Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is >visible from NY RT 440? Yeh, I thought the background to the photos looked a lot like the refineries around Elizabeth NJ. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:46:15 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Arthur Kill is totally inland and protected from the NY Bay side of the island. The Kill is fully Nanagable with large ships serving serveral refinerys including Hess. The LV had its coal docks to the south on the southside of the Outerbridge Crossing Bridge. Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 2/4/02 3:22 PM, Bennett Levin (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > > > Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of > > Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is > > visible from NY RT 440? > > I don't think so, although I am largely unfamiliar with that area. > > My thoughts in thinking it was Philadelphia, along the Delaware: > > 1) The water is fairly smooth. This is somewhat inland. There are tidal > affects visible, but not visible effects from waves. Wouldn't the Staten > Island location be subject to choppiness? Isn't it closer to the ocean? > > 2) In one view a green can buoy can be seen near the opposite shore. In > another, a red can buoy near the near side. This suggests we are looking > downstream. One of the primary rules of navigation is "red right returning" > -- keep the red buoys to the right as you proceed inland. > > 3) Assuming the above is correct, and we are looking downstream, the ore > loaders and petrol plants are on the opposite, or east side of the river. > > I also noted the structure on top of a few poles. While these may be seen in > the northeast, they are much more prevalent in the bayou area of, say, New > Orleans. > > Also, the passenger boats do not look like the Mississippi type. However, > they are not large enough to be ocean-going...especially when you look at > the size of the lifeboats. These could be ferries around NYC, or > Philadelphia, or somewhere on the Chesapeake Bay. I've piloted boats on the > northern half of the latter and there is no such boat graveyard in that > range of territory. > > > > Jerry Britton wrote: > >> > >> On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > >> > >>> I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > >>> (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > >>> concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be > >>> of > >>> no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there > >>> are > >>> some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > >>> region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > >>> configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > >>> look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > >>> > >>> http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > >>> > >>> BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > >>> reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that > >>> too. > >>> What a neat place! > >>> > >> I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > >> > >> As for the site... > >> > >> The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > >> > >> However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) > >> and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > >> along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > >> like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > >> ----------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:45:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: Jerry Britton On 2/4/02 3:46 PM, Bennett Levin (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > Arthur Kill is totally inland and protected from the NY Bay side of the > island. The Kill is fully Nanagable with large ships serving serveral > refinerys including Hess. The LV had its coal docks to the south on the > southside of the Outerbridge Crossing Bridge. > >> 2) In one view a green can buoy can be seen near the opposite shore. In >> another, a red can buoy near the near side. This suggests we are looking >> downstream. One of the primary rules of navigation is "red right returning" >> -- keep the red buoys to the right as you proceed inland. >> Very plausible, then, as the buoys would be oriented correctly if I understand your description of the area. The types of boats are also correct. Anyone wanna restore a PRR tug? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:45:52 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Cyber info on Cabin car lettering standards Jerry and all, Is there any way we can add the PRR Cabin Car paint and lettering information to your website so we can eliminate the confusion and mis-information and make it available to all who wish to know? We can then thin out some of the threads that start out as one question and then head right into the pool cuppola color... We could also mention the special cases of cabin cars that fall into the catagory of. "I have seen a picture of a cabin car with only the side sheathing painted..." I am not saying to COPY what was written in the Keystone word for word but a good little cyber-article would be helpful for members on this list. For the Record... The Yellow cuppolas were for through pool service circa 1961/2 and the gray cuppola circa 1963 were for through pools in electrified territories. The east/west and north/south is skewed information unless you consider the electrified territories as only north/south pool... The practice lasted until the merger. Again, it would be nice to have this information available to all perhaps on your website. Just a thought... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:53:22 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos A closer examination reveals even more information. The large smokestack could very well be the one at the Hess Refinery which is west of the yard on the far side of the Kill. The two large Storage tanks could be those to the north of the site where LPG is stored. I think I might be close. Over the past serval years the yard has been thined out. I was there 10-15 years ago and there was PRR stuff there. Bennett Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 2/4/02 3:22 PM, Bennett Levin (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > > > Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of > > Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is > > visible from NY RT 440? > > I don't think so, although I am largely unfamiliar with that area. > > My thoughts in thinking it was Philadelphia, along the Delaware: > > 1) The water is fairly smooth. This is somewhat inland. There are tidal > affects visible, but not visible effects from waves. Wouldn't the Staten > Island location be subject to choppiness? Isn't it closer to the ocean? > > 2) In one view a green can buoy can be seen near the opposite shore. In > another, a red can buoy near the near side. This suggests we are looking > downstream. One of the primary rules of navigation is "red right returning" > -- keep the red buoys to the right as you proceed inland. > > 3) Assuming the above is correct, and we are looking downstream, the ore > loaders and petrol plants are on the opposite, or east side of the river. > > I also noted the structure on top of a few poles. While these may be seen in > the northeast, they are much more prevalent in the bayou area of, say, New > Orleans. > > Also, the passenger boats do not look like the Mississippi type. However, > they are not large enough to be ocean-going...especially when you look at > the size of the lifeboats. These could be ferries around NYC, or > Philadelphia, or somewhere on the Chesapeake Bay. I've piloted boats on the > northern half of the latter and there is no such boat graveyard in that > range of territory. > > > > Jerry Britton wrote: > >> > >> On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > >> > >>> I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > >>> (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > >>> concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be > >>> of > >>> no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there > >>> are > >>> some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > >>> region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > >>> configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > >>> look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > >>> > >>> http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > >>> > >>> BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > >>> reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that > >>> too. > >>> What a neat place! > >>> > >> I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > >> > >> As for the site... > >> > >> The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > >> > >> However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) > >> and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > >> along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > >> like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > >> ----------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:51:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: Jerry Britton On 2/4/02 3:53 PM, Bennett Levin (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > A closer examination reveals even more information. The large smokestack > could very well be the one at the Hess Refinery which is west of the > yard on the far side of the Kill. The two large Storage tanks could be > those to the north of the site where LPG is stored. > > I think I might be close. Over the past serval years the yard has been > thined out. I was there 10-15 years ago and there was PRR stuff there. > I was just notified off-list...the site is in New Orleans. Oh well! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:57:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cyber info on Cabin car lettering standards From: Jerry Britton On 2/4/02 3:45 PM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > Is there any way we can add the PRR Cabin Car paint and lettering information > to your website so we can eliminate the confusion and mis-information and make > it available to all who wish to know? We can then thin out some of the threads > that start out as one question and then head right into the pool cuppola > color... We could also mention the special cases of cabin cars that fall into > the catagory of. "I have seen a picture of a cabin car with only the side > sheathing painted..." I am not saying to COPY what was written in the Keystone > word for word but a good little cyber-article would be helpful for members on > this list. > > For the Record... The Yellow cuppolas were for through pool service circa > 1961/2 and the gray cuppola circa 1963 were for through pools in electrified > territories. The east/west and north/south is skewed information unless you > consider the electrified territories as only north/south pool... The practice > lasted until the merger. Again, it would be nice to have this information > available to all perhaps on your website. > Absolutely! Always welcome donors to the site. All that is needed is someone to collect the info and forward to me...to expedite its posting. Greg, do you want to head this up? (please!) If you know HTML, great. Otherwise forward descriptive text to me and I'll tag it. Can you provide scans? I prefer 100dpi JPEG's. This would be a nice addition to the Cabin Car database that I already server. BTW: There have always been known errors in the Freight Equipment Paint Schemes page. I have the Keystone with the article on same and will be updating shortly. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:59:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Cyber info on Cabin car lettering standards Greg, Good idea! Along with the text add a photo of a cabin that represents what is being described. I am sure there is a pic of each scheme available some where. If no photos, a color drawing would be useful as well.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:12:19 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos --- Benjamin Sullivan wrote: > [...] but it seems that in > some of the shots there are > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by > PRR in the Delmarva > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these > pictures, I recognize > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may > be of interest. Compare to http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/03/075.jpg > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm Some of those tugs seem to have rather tall pilot houses. Somewhere I read that that is a sure sign of a RR tug. Tall pilot house so as to be able to see over the cars on the car-float. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 4 Feb 2002 16:27:32 EST From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] Boat Yard Photos O'Boyle gives the location as the Mississippi River at New Orleans. SEE http://oboylerphoto.com/ruins and then read the TEXT. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:43:57 -0500 Jerry and list: I lived in New Orleans three times and worked for the PRR there twice, and can tell you that there is no smokestack as tall as the one in the photo, nor was there ever an ore or coal loader there, although the device I see near the oil tanks looks like it may be a Seatrain loader. There was one of those in New Orleans, but it was south of town. Some of the tugs are definitely railroad tugs (high wheelhouse). There were no railroad carfloat activities in New Orleans after the Huey Long Bridge was built in the 1930's. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Benjamin Sullivan" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > > > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of > > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are > > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > > > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. > > What a neat place! > > > I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > > As for the site... > > The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > > However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) > and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:52:00 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos The coal loader could be the one at Port Reading also across from the "yard". I think I might be right! There were two coal (McMylers) dumpers on Arthur Kill. The PRR had its at South Amboy. Berwind dumped at Harsimus Cove. LV at Perth Amboy on Arthur Kill, and the CNJ at pier 18 in Jersey City. Bennett Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > > Jerry and list: > > I lived in New Orleans three times and worked for the PRR there twice, and > can tell you that there is no smokestack as tall as the one in the photo, > nor was there ever an ore or coal loader there, although the device I see > near the oil tanks looks like it may be a Seatrain loader. There was one of > those in New Orleans, but it was south of town. Some of the tugs are > definitely railroad tugs (high wheelhouse). There were no railroad carfloat > activities in New Orleans after the Huey Long Bridge was built in the > 1930's. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "Benjamin Sullivan" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" > > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 2:55 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > > > On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > > > > > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel > photos. > > > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > > > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would > be of > > > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots > there are > > > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > > > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > > > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. > Take a > > > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the > ships. > > > > > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > > > > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does > not > > > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on > that too. > > > What a neat place! > > > > > I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > > > > As for the site... > > > > The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > > > > However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, > etc.) > > and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > > along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > > like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > For brass collectors... > > http://www.brasstrains.net > > Free serving of railroad web sites... > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:06:00 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C1ADAE.FC178880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I concur with Andy on the use of the single action airbrush for painting = models, particularly for a beginner. You can do an expert job painting = with the "H" model brush (even a less expensive brand like Wren or = Badger) easier than you can with the double acting brush. It is easier = to learn the techniques of painting with a single action brush because = the only variables are your distance to the object and the amount of air = you are using. The volume of paint is "fixed" by the nozzle adjustment. = Once you have the basic painting technique down pat, get a second = airbrush - a double acting - to use for delicate weathering, shading = etc. Any compressor putting out 28 + PSI will be suitable. Make sure you get = a regulator and water trap also. All these parts are available = separately cheaper than trying to get a compressor with those parts = attached. If you get a used diaphragm compressor, take the thing apart = and physically check the diaphragm for wear. They can appear to be = working and have cracks in the rubber. Brand name compressors can be = repaired easily because parts are available. =20 If you use Floquil or other lacquer base paints, use lacquer thinner to = clean the brush and bottles or paint cups but only use the paint's brand = name thinner for thinning the paint. Sometimes lacquer thinner will = cause paint to clot or curdle when used as a thinner, hence use only the = manufacturer's brand thinner. I wrote a very lengthy article on the use and theory of airbrush = painting with a review of available equipment, published in the July and = August issues of RMC in 1982. The theory of operation and the use of = the single and double acting airbrushes is extensively covered. No one = has since done an article that offers more detailed information than = what is available in the July 1982 issue. If you can find a copy, it = will answer any questions you may have. I will be glad to answer any individual questions off list. Lew Matt ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andrew S. Miller=20 To: TJ LInk=20 Cc: mahlkov@gtcom.net ; PRR-Talk=20 Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Alright. I must enter what appears from a small sample (of two) to be = a minority opinion. I have used a Pasche model H for over 35 years and = have been very happy with it. The model H is their single action brush, = i.e. the trigger only adjusts the amount of air. The amount of paint is = controlled by a screw action nozzle tip. I have used both, having = borrowed a dual action on occasion from a friend (when I forgot to bring = by tool box keys to the club room).=20 I see two big advantages to the single action. First, all of the = moving parts are external to the brush, making it much easier to clean. = An improperly cleaned brush will give very poor results. Second, the = dual action requires a very steady finger to keep the flow of paint and = air consistent. They are really designed for water color artists = (remember Playboy's Vargas girls?). For spraying broad areas with = lacquers like Floquil, presetting the amount of paint and varying only = the air during a painting session works a lot better. Lacquers are = likely to really gum up the delicate internal parts of a dual action = brush.=20 In addition you have the lesser consideration that a single action = brush will be less expensive.=20 The choice of brush type is the only minority opinion I have. I = concur with both of the other posters about solder or ACC. Bowser's = newest locos have Zamak boilers which makes soldering almost impossible. = But it remains a good idea, if not a necessity, for the few places = where you will join brass to brass.=20 I have put Helix humpers (available from Bowser) in two of my L1's. = They do not increase (or decrease) pulling power, but do make = performance smoother and make the loco much quieter. Bowsers with their = DC70's are notoriously loud.=20 =20 =20 TJ LInk wrote:=20 Greg, List, I am in the process of building my first = Bowser engine, an I-1 decapod. I've never done any painting before, and = I'm still in the process of finding the right airbrush. I've narrowed = my choice down to Paasche, but can't decide on the model. Any = suggestions? Next, I have the deluxe kit, and it makes no mention of = how to fasten all of the detail parts. What type of adhesive should I = use? CA? Solder? Painting is an issue that is still out in the = distance, but is looming ever larger. One last thing to add to the mess = of questions, What's all this business I've heard about "Helix = Humpers"?. = Many thanks = = Matt Link=20 --=20 =20 Regards,=20 Andy Miller=20 asmiller@mitre.org=20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C1ADAE.FC178880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I concur with Andy on the use of the = single action=20 airbrush for painting models, particularly for a beginner.  You can = do an=20 expert job painting with the "H" model brush (even a less expensive = brand=20 like Wren or Badger) easier than you can with the double acting=20 brush.  It is easier to learn the techniques of painting with a = single=20 action brush because the only variables are your distance to the object = and the=20 amount of air you are using.  The volume of paint is "fixed" by the = nozzle=20 adjustment.  Once you have the basic painting technique down pat, = get a=20 second airbrush - a double acting - to use for delicate weathering, = shading=20 etc.
 
Any compressor putting out 28 = + PSI will be=20 suitable.  Make sure you get a regulator and water trap also.  = All=20 these parts are available separately cheaper than trying to get a = compressor=20 with those parts attached.  If you get a used diaphragm compressor, = take=20 the thing apart and physically check the diaphragm for wear.  They = can=20 appear to be working and have cracks in the rubber.  Brand name = compressors=20 can be repaired easily because parts are available. 
 
If you use Floquil or other lacquer = base paints,=20 use lacquer thinner to clean the brush and bottles or paint cups but = only use=20 the paint's brand name thinner for thinning the paint.  Sometimes = lacquer=20 thinner will cause paint to clot or curdle when used as a thinner, hence = use=20 only the manufacturer's brand thinner.
 
I wrote a very lengthy article on the = use and=20 theory of airbrush painting with a review of available equipment, = published in=20 the July and August issues of RMC in 1982.  The theory of operation = and the=20 use of the single and double acting airbrushes is extensively = covered.  No=20 one has since done an article that offers more detailed information than = what is=20 available in the July 1982 issue.  If you can find a copy, it will = answer=20 any questions you may have.
 
I will be glad to answer any individual = questions=20 off list.
 
Lew Matt
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andrew S.=20 Miller
To: TJ LInk
Cc: mahlkov@gtcom.net ; PRR-Talk
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 = 12:53=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy = k-4s

Alright.  I must enter what appears from a small = sample=20 (of two) to be a minority opinion.   I have used a Pasche = model H=20 for over 35 years and have been very happy with it.  The model H = is their=20 single action brush, i.e. the trigger only adjusts the amount of = air. =20 The amount of paint is controlled by a screw action nozzle tip. I have = used=20 both, having borrowed a dual action on occasion from a friend (when I = forgot=20 to bring by tool box keys to the club room).=20

I see two big advantages to the single action.  First, all of = the=20 moving parts are external to the brush, making it much easier to = clean. =20 An improperly cleaned brush will give very poor results.  Second, = the=20 dual action requires a very steady finger to keep the flow of paint = and air=20 consistent.  They are really designed for water color artists = (remember=20 Playboy's Vargas girls?).  For spraying broad areas with lacquers = like=20 Floquil, presetting the amount of paint and varying only the air = during a=20 painting session works a lot better.  Lacquers are likely to = really gum=20 up the delicate internal parts of a dual action brush.=20

In addition you have the lesser consideration that a single action = brush=20 will be less expensive.=20

The choice of brush type is the only minority opinion I have.  = I=20 concur with both of the other posters about solder or ACC.  = Bowser's=20 newest locos have Zamak boilers which makes soldering almost = impossible. =20 But it remains a good idea, if not a necessity, for the few places = where you=20 will join brass to brass.=20

I have put Helix humpers (available from Bowser) in two of my = L1's. =20 They do not increase (or decrease) pulling power, but do make = performance=20 smoother and make the loco much quieter.  Bowsers with their = DC70's are=20 notoriously loud.
 
 =20

TJ LInk wrote:=20

Greg,=20 = List,           &n= bsp;   =20 I am in the process of building my first Bowser engine, an I-1=20 decapod.  I've never done any painting before, and I'm still in = the=20 process of finding the right airbrush.  I've narrowed my choice = down to=20 Paasche, but can't decide on the model.  Any = suggestions?  =20 Next, I have the deluxe kit, and it makes no mention of how to = fasten all of=20 the detail parts.  What type of adhesive should I use?  = CA? =20 Solder?  Painting is an issue that is still out in the = distance, but is=20 looming ever larger.  One last thing to add to the mess of=20 questions,  What's all this business I've heard about "Helix=20 = Humpers"?.          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;           =20 Many=20 = thanks           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      =20 Matt Link 

--
 =20

Regards,=20

Andy Miller
asmiller@mitre.org=20 =

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D
 =20

------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C1ADAE.FC178880-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 19:42:35 -0500 From: "H.&S." Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Hi all.... There is a former PRR tug in this collection of photos. See...... http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/by104.jpg This is one of the former U.S. Army / former PRR tugs that were used on the Delmarva's Cape Charles-Little Creek operation. One hint is the tugs' color. Another is its size (larger than most RR tugs) and another is the bumper framing on the sides.Its probably either the Bloxom or Cheriton. There were five tugs of the same design that PRR owned. All have been gone for decades.(late 1970's early-mid 1980's?) The PRR bought these just after WWII. I have copies of pictures of both if anyone wants to see. I see a carfloat (or rather the house for one, is the rest underwater?) But i can't tell well who it had belonged to. Til Later Hank Mummert Benjamin Sullivan wrote: > Hi all, > > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. > What a neat place! > > And, on the airbrush thread: I heard somewhere that it is a good idea to > *store* your airbrush in a bottle of laquer thinner... is this true? If so, > would it be a good idea to store it in laquer thinner for a long period of > time, or only for cleaning purposes (a few minutes/hours or so)? > > THANKS! > > Ben Sullivan > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 22:41:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos From: aurora7@juno.com I believe the derelict area is along the Jersey shore of the the Hudson, in a place called "Black Tom". About 20 years ago it waslittered with old NYC steam tugs and EL passenger ferries. The South Street Seaport Museum has had archaeologists out there to draw and measure the wrecks that are of historical value, but sadly, restoration of a ship makes restoring a steam locomotive look cheap! Either by collisions with each other as they rock on the tides, or from passing ship wakes, or just plain old hull decay, these great old boats are disappearing into the Hudson muck quicker than they can be slvaged or stripped, or preserved. I agree that the wrecks would be a great place to document and explore, but then I think of the river rats that call them home....UGH! How the photographer got access to the site is another question. From what I've read, it is strictly closed to the public as a dangerous place. Still, everytime I think of the scene in "Funny Girl", where Barbara Streisand rides out to the "Berengaria" aboard a NYC steam tug, I get pangs to see one saved for posterity. That age has passed before our eyes for lack of capital to stop or stagger the march of time. I wishes were iron horses..... Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "I'm not afraid of death. I just don't want to be there when it happens." -Woody Allen ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:44:22 -0500 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Yes it does appear to be on the SI side of the Arthur Kill. The Con ED power plant in the distance is opposite the Fresh Kills Landfill, and across from the former CNJ's "Chemical Coast". You could see parts of the ruins from the old Port Reading Coal Dumper, and a better view from behind Stoldt Terminals in Perth Amboy near the Outerbridge. I believe there are actually several boat grave yards within a few miles on the SI side of the Arthur Kill. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bennett Levin" To: "Jerry Britton" Cc: "Benjamin Sullivan" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > Could this be the The grave yard on Arthur Kill on the westside of > Staten Island south of the Fresh Kills landfill (WTC site)? It is > visible from NY RT 440? > > Jerry Britton wrote: > > > > On 2/4/02 2:29 PM, Benjamin Sullivan (cpl_clegg@yahoo.com) wrote: > > > > > I stumbled upon this site while searching for some Bethlehem Steel photos. > > > (anyone know of any good OLD shots online?) There is a nice photo essay > > > concerning "The Boatyard (the elephants graveyard)." Normally this would be of > > > no consequence to this list, but it seems that in some of the shots there are > > > some carfloats & tugs which MAY have operated for/by PRR in the Delmarva > > > region. I'm no expert(!) but looking through these pictures, I recognize > > > configurations and hulls which seem familiar and may be of interest. Take a > > > look - I'd be interested to know if anyone can recognize any of the ships. > > > > > > http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm > > > > > > BTW, unfortunately, on the site the photographer (Shaun O'Boyle) does not > > > reveal WHERE this boat graveyard is; maybe someone can clue us in on that too. > > > What a neat place! > > > > > I agree that many of these hulls look similar to those the PRR used. > > > > As for the site... > > > > The domain is registered in Massachusetts. > > > > However, the equipment along the river (petroleum plants, ore loaders, etc.) > > and the configuration of the visible buoys in the water suggest this is > > along the Delaware River, in the area below/near Veterans Stadium and the > > like. I suspect this boat yard is actually on the east side of the river. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > For brass collectors... > > http://www.brasstrains.net > > Free serving of railroad web sites... > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:09:00 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Black tom was also the location of the infamous WW1 munitions explosion. A check of the Deloran GPS atlas shows the Port Reading Yard and Coal dock directly opposite the "yard" that I described. It is accessed from Arthur Kill Road west ofc NY 440 just south of the Fresh Kills Landfill where the WTC debris is being taken. All the pieces including the LPG tanks and the tall stack and the coal dumper seem to make it fit. aurora7@juno.com wrote: > > I believe the derelict area is along the Jersey shore of the the Hudson, > in a place called "Black Tom". About 20 years ago it waslittered with > old NYC steam tugs and EL passenger ferries. The South Street Seaport > Museum has had archaeologists out there to draw and measure the wrecks > that are of historical value, but sadly, restoration of a ship makes > restoring a steam locomotive look cheap! Either by collisions with each > other as they rock on the tides, or from passing ship wakes, or just > plain old hull decay, these great old boats are disappearing into the > Hudson muck quicker than they can be slvaged or stripped, or preserved. > I agree that the wrecks would be a great place to document and explore, > but then I think of the river rats that call them home....UGH! > How the photographer got access to the site is another question. From > what I've read, it is strictly closed to the public as a dangerous place. > Still, everytime I think of the scene in "Funny Girl", where Barbara > Streisand rides out to the "Berengaria" aboard a NYC steam tug, I get > pangs to see one saved for posterity. That age has passed before our > eyes for lack of capital to stop or stagger the march of time. I wishes > were iron horses..... > > > > Richard Glueck > Peace of the Planet Farm > Winterport, Maine > > "I'm not afraid of death. I just don't want to be there > when it happens." -Woody Allen > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:30:19 EST From: LKeough107@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] pennsy k-4s Sam To add to what Bruce said about the steam color guide, I ordered one from the Winter 2001 Keystone interchange. I received it in the mail today and am pleased with what I received. The address Chuck Blardone, 2886 Wimbledon Ln, Lancaster Pa 17601-1454. It cost $4 but in my opinion well worth it for getting accurate PRR steam. I do not mean this to be an advertisement but thought it might help further explain Bruce's answer. If I crossed a line somewhere sorry. Steve Keough ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:54:38 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations From: "Douglas Nelson" What was the purpose of reversing the location of generators and headlights on PRR steam locomotives? When was this change made? Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:42:27 -0500 Doug, Servicing the turbo-generator was the main reason for the change. With the turbo up on top of the smokebox access was difficult, time consuming and somewhat dangerous. During WWII when the change in location was initiated, maintenance time was critical to the war effort. In order to make this item easier and safer to maintain the headlight was raised to the top of the smokebox and the generator brought down in front and a "chin platform" for the service man to stand on was added to the lower smokebox front. This put the turbo and most of it's plumbing a convenient level to be maintained rather easily and quickly. This practice continuued after the war, although not all locomotives received this treatment. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Nelson [mailto:dougnelson@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:55 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Generator/Headlight locations What was the purpose of reversing the location of generators and headlights on PRR steam locomotives? When was this change made? Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:53:00 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Photos Posted From: Jerry Britton Though taken on a cold rainy day this past December, I have posted some digital pics. These may be viewed by searching the database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ Included: * what's left of the "emergency water stop" at Cove, Pa. * Sherman's Creek bridge and VIEW interlocking * Duncannon passenger station ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:09:13 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Northern Central Chapter Meeting This Sunday From: Jerry Britton This Sunday, February 10, the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS will meet at 1:30 p.m. The PRR public is invited to attend, even if not a member of the Society or the Chapter. This will be the first meeting in a new meeting location...the Otterbein United Methodist Church. This move is to alleviate the rising costs of meeting at the Yorktown Hotel. The church is off of Philadelphia Street, about three blocks west of George Street. The February meeting is the annual "LCL Meeting", where attendees are encouraged to bring unusual PRR railroadiana or models to share with all. As an example, one year it was quite a site to see a half dozen grown men crawling all over a 1" = 100' valuation map of the entire Enola Yard, stretched across 15' of floor! This year I will be taking two "Board of Directors Inspection Trip" books from the 1950's which include all sorts of unique photos and track charts not found elsewhere. I'll also have a book on the sale of the Harrisburg Steel Plant from the 1950's, which includes a map of the railroad trackage through the plant, plus the sizes of most of the buildings making up the plant. Different! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: [PRR] H10 dome dimensions Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:10:15 -0500 Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of the steam & sand domes on an H10 (length/width/height at widest points)? I'm trying to convert a Bachmann consolidation, and am going to make them out of ABS rod. Thanks! --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:41:35 -0500 Roger:- Yes, I certainly DO mean the Pennsylvania Railroad. The PRR maintained a Sales Office in New Orleans from 1918 to its merger in 1968, and the PC maintained one there during its existence. The first time I was there I was the Office Manager (read Chief Clerk) 1962-1964, the second time I was a Sales Representative 1967-1973 (the last 5 under PC). In between I was a Rate Clerk in Cleveland and a Sales Representative in Baltimore. Prior to working for the railroad I went to Tulane University in New Orleans, which I suppose is why the PRR sent me there. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Boat Graveyard photos > In a message dated 2/4/02 3:43:32 PM Central Standard Time, mahlkov@gtcom.net > writes: > > << I lived in New Orleans three times and worked for the PRR there twice >> > > You worked for the PRR???? in New Orleans????? You mean Pennsylvania > Railroad?????? > > Roger > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl M." Subject: [PRR] airbrushing G scale Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:04:28 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an airbrush......I am = doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so the areas to be = painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what kind of airbrush = set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" x 5" x 6" = and there are many of them to do..... I will also track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite = "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that tip! Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 I have noted all the postings ref = a newbie=20 with an airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, = gauge 1) so=20 the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what = kind of=20 airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car is 16" = x 5" x=20 6" and there are many of them to do.....
  I will also track down that RMC = July/Aug 82=20 issue thru my favorite "old paper" dealer. Lewis Matt, thanks for that=20 tip!
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th = scale
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1AE3D.432C4F60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:18:02 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] airbrushing G scale Lew asks: > Gents; I have noted all the postings ref a newbie with an >airbrush......I am doing the PRR in "G" scale (1/29th scale, gauge 1) so >the areas to be painted are very large as compared to an HO car....what >kind of airbrush set-up is best for these larger cars? A typical box car >is 16" x 5" x 6" and there are many of them to do..... I will also >track down that RMC July/Aug 82 issue thru my favorite "old paper" >dealer. Sounds about right for the old "auto" spray can ...you know, the kind Walthers paints their HO and N scale stuff with as well ;^) Actually, I'm serious about the size of the spray can. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0