From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Roundhouse Date: Mon, 7 Jan 102 20:42:17 -0500 (EST) Duane C. Miller scribit: > > As of 1997 there was a roundhouse still standing in Chambersburg, Pa. Does > anyone know if it belonged to the PRR or to the Reading. > > Duane Miller Duane, thanks for reminding me of this location, and SHAME ON ME for not remembering this thing, which was 12 miles from my backyard. It was PRR (via Cumberland Valley RR). (The Reading never ran into Chambersburg; it had connected into the Lurgan Sub of the WM in Shippensburg.) -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 -- Madison grade Date: Fri, 4 Jan 102 10:24:17 -0500 (EST) > > Thanks for all the great information. However, I am still not clear = > > on the need of the rail washers. Did they somehow improve traction? Gregg Mahlkov scribit: > Wet leaves on the rails can be extremely slippery. Sand would not get = > the leaves off the rails, only the rail washers would. > Gregg Mahlkov Moreover, leaves crushed by locomotive wheels tend to decompose into a tarry sort of substance. I guess that the reduction in coefficient of friction from adding water was the lesser of the two evils, the second being trying somehow to de-tar the rails. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Steep Grades Date: Fri, 4 Jan 102 10:27:57 -0500 (EST) WAJK4@aol.com scribit: > > Another steep grade the Pennsy had was located in Lancaster. =A0If I am > correct, I believe that it connected the PRR yard with the Reading Yard. > was informed that from railhead to railhead was a difference of twenty-eight > feet in one block!!! This bridge no longer exists. Apparently the PRR > used a B6 to make this climb, and it couldn't haul any more than three or four > cars at a time. I must thank one of the volunteers at the Railroad Museum > of PA for providing me with this information. If anyone has a picture of > this bridge I would love to see one. Walt, I don't know which yard you're referring to. I attended college across the street (Harrisburg Pike) from the PRR yard. The Reading had a small yard immediately alongside, at the same altitude. Fred [Abendschein], any idea which bridge? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] The PRR Mainline ends in Pittsburgh! Date: Mon, 7 Jan 102 09:50:58 -0500 (EST) Randy Williamson scribit: > > And I always thought that the real PRR ended in Pittsburgh with reverse > loops to head back to St. Louis/Chicago. Long live Lines West. Not reverse loops. The trains got up to speed, jumped over the Allegheny River on the Fort Wayne bridge, then became airborne, and arrived in Chicago or St. Louis the next morning. Hmm, this used to be said of academic material in particularly boring college classes, but perhaps one could modify the phrase: "I know the PRR mainline in Ohio/Indiana like the back of my eyelids." -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] East vs. west Date: Mon, 7 Jan 102 09:55:05 -0500 (EST) TJ LInk scribit: > > Come on guys! Why bicker about which lines were best, east or west? I'm = > a PRR fan no matter where it is! I just happen to love right where I = > grew up: Crestline. If I had grown up in the east, I'd like it there as = > well as west. This seems to be childish, if you guys don't want to help = > preserve a PRR Roundhouse, fine! Matt, chill out. The East vs. West stuff is all for fun. I for one am lucky to have been able to live in both Lines East and Lines West territory. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Society Meeting Locations Date: Wed, 9 Jan 102 15:24:16 -0500 (EST) BPX29@aol.com scribit: > > We'll see, but it looks like Camp Hill is already set for future years. Cinncy isn't a bad choice for a location, but is indeed at one of the Pennsy's extremeties to be sure, and a town with many contenders for railfan affection. Even saying it's an exceptionaly good meeting, when's the next year available? What is it, 2005 or so? Maybe some really unexpected contender will pop up one of these years. (Indy? Fort Wayne?Buffalo maybe?) > Should be fun. Regards, I think Pittsburgh would be quite viable, as there is a long-standing and active chapter there. (Yes, they ran the meeting at Camp Hill in the recent past.) Cinci will be an interesting test case. If it works, I only really see 2 other possibilities: Chicago and maybe St. Louis. Cleveland, Detroit, Fort Wayne, Canton, Richmond Ind. all seem to have too little nearby to be of much iterest. Maybe I'm wrong. But why not north Jersey, with its proximity to NYC? Or Long Island? Or Baltimore? Or Wilmington? Is Williamsport a possibility? As to vendors: perhaps the "usual" vendors that show up in Harrisburg won't want to make the trip with all their wares ... but other local vendors may be willing to come in. The locals would know or should be able to find out who shows up at the general train shows in their area and see if they'd be willing to show up at the PRRTHS meeting. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Society Meeting Locations Date: Wed, 9 Jan 102 17:34:58 -0500 (EST) Chany, Christopher scribit: > > I asked > Ivan a couple of years ago if we would ever go back to Balto. and he said > that Maryland charged the society some sort of registration tax for every > attendee! Really? For a nonprofit society?? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] English units anyone? Or metric? Date: Thu, 10 Jan 102 08:57:25 -0500 (EST) > Lew, > If you are going to test the cookbook, what about also adding metric > measures, I do know that American Imperial and British Imperial measures are > not the same... > Patrick Grace RickTipton@aol.com scribit: > American Imperial -- I think you get credit for creating an interesting new > set of measurements. Got to agree, though, it's confusing. I was always > taught that the measures we US-type-Americans used were called English units. > Schoolteachers taught us how to convert from these "English" units to > metric. Then I found out some of our "English" units weren't the same as > Imperial (British) measures. In fact, I'm still not sure if all of Canada's > Imperial measures are the same as Britain's. Or what this has to do with > TV's or videotapes . > On second thought, how about a PRR cookbook entirely in metric? Lessee, this > cake takes 454 milligrams of flour, 3.8 liters of water... > Rick, up way too late. Rick, I have some cures for your insomnia, but you'll have to visit me in Cleveland, as I don't have a license in Kentucky! :-) But whas has this to do with the PRR? ... Many of you are old enough to remember that the US almost metricized in the mid- to late-1970s. I recall some road signs adding kms to miles, and of course, nearly all packaged foods now sport metric units. Predictably, people did exact conversions, and thus the metric units became awfully "unfriendly". I mean really, do you want to talk about 1 pound of something, or 454 grams? They _could_ have said 450 grams, then added a "NOW 4 grams FREE!" logo, but of course, no one thought of that. So now, 25 years later, the only things routinely bought in metric units are medications (thank God that grains, drams, and minims are gone!), soft drinks, alcohol (wine and spirits, though not beer), and electricity. I once, a while ago, saw a 10-kilo bag of potatoes. Yes, I _still_ have not gotten to the PRR, or *RR, connection. Here it is. I am slowly wending my way through some old _Railroad Gazette_s. I'm up to 1894 at the moment, and it has been very interesting to me to read all of the debate, some of it quite heated, in the editorial pages of that trade journal, about adoption of the metric system. The PRR was not really involved directly, so far as I can tell, but surely its engineers followed the discussions closely. One other thing to note. Congress approved the use of the metric system in the late 19th century. (Of course, this approval is relevant to _inter_state commerce.) The U.S. as a whole has, believe it or not, never made any moves to make the English system official. This is reflected, as well, in the fact that the NIST, National Institute of Standards and Technology, the former NBS, National Bureau of Standards, calls the English system thus: "the U.S. Customary System". I.e., it is simply customary, by custom, that we use it. In fact, NIST/NBS now defines all English measurements in terms of the analogous metric measure. As to U.S. versus Canadian/British differences: the only difference in the unit sizes that I am aware of is the variation in liquid measures, quarts and gallons. It goes back to some issue or other with the "Queen Anne pint", and I no longer remember the details. Some web site or other probably has a complete historical account ... CGS, MKS, and SI are left as an exercise to the reader. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 02:40:50 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Jack Fravert Auction 14 closes Jan 9, but not on eBay Just a note to remind my friends on the list know that List 14 from the Jack Fravert estate will close next week on January 9 at 8 pm. Among goodies of interest to Pennsy fans are a 1956 PRR rule book, and a duplicate slide set that includes C1 #6951 and K4s #1533 at Louisville 14th Street. Of general interest, there's a 1926 financial book called Mundy's which offers period maps, corporate and organizational details, and actually (unlike Standard & Poor's) seems to understand operating relationships of railroad subsidiaries. There's a 27 volume set of American Railway Engineering Association Proceedings starting with 1913. There are also Westinghouse Air Brake manuals, Official Guides from 1942, 1969, and 1971, and much more. An email to me will bring you lists, and details on how we conduct these auctions via email and without benefit of eBay. Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone and fax 502-228-4997 (8am to 8pm please) Wolf Penn Station 5108 Wolf Pen Woods Drive Prospect, KY 40059-9197 "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 02:40:50 EST Subject: [PRR] Jack Fravert Auction 14 closes Jan 9, but not on eBay Just a note to remind my friends on the list know that List 14 from the Jack Fravert estate will close next week on January 9 at 8 pm. Among goodies of interest to Pennsy fans are a 1956 PRR rule book, and a duplicate slide set that includes C1 #6951 and K4s #1533 at Louisville 14th Street. Of general interest, there's a 1926 financial book called Mundy's which offers period maps, corporate and organizational details, and actually (unlike Standard & Poor's) seems to understand operating relationships of railroad subsidiaries. There's a 27 volume set of American Railway Engineering Association Proceedings starting with 1913. There are also Westinghouse Air Brake manuals, Official Guides from 1942, 1969, and 1971, and much more. An email to me will bring you lists, and details on how we conduct these auctions via email and without benefit of eBay. Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone and fax 502-228-4997 (8am to 8pm please) Wolf Penn Station 5108 Wolf Pen Woods Drive Prospect, KY 40059-9197 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "TJ LInk" Subject: [PRR] Q-2 and T-1 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 10:41:36 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C192B0.E34A95E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fellas, Does anyone have prints of the Q-2 and T-1 locomotives showing = dimensions? I need to know what the length from coupler face to coupler = face as well as the center of the first pilot wheel to the center of the = last wheel on the tender's trailing truck.=20 Matt Link ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C192B0.E34A95E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fellas,
    Does anyone have prints of the Q-2 and T-1 = locomotives=20 showing dimensions? I need to know what the length from coupler face to = coupler=20 face as well as the center of the first pilot wheel to the center of the = last=20 wheel on the tender's trailing truck.
    Matt Link
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C192B0.E34A95E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] Q-2 and T-1 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 10:34:08 -0600 Matt, I have the NJ International Q Class book, and it has a drawing of the Q-2. The wheelbase dimension is 107'7 1/2", and the coupler face dimension is 124'7 1/8". Model Railroader's Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia has a drawing of the T-1. The coupler face dimension is 119'9 1/2". However, this dimension may be a little bit longer, as the rear line only goes to the back of the tender, not the coupler face. The drawing does not show a total wheelbase dimension. I was able to add up all the dimensions shown, and got 104'8 1/2". The segment they left out appears to be about 36". So, if you are sizing a turntable, it looks like 110' would do the job. Andy -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of TJ LInk Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 9:42 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Q-2 and T-1 Fellas, Does anyone have prints of the Q-2 and T-1 locomotives showing dimensions? I need to know what the length from coupler face to coupler face as well as the center of the first pilot wheel to the center of the last wheel on the tender's trailing truck. Matt Link ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Q-2 and T-1 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 11:39:33 -0600 Matt asks: Fellas, Does anyone have prints of the Q-2 and T-1 locomotives showing dimensions? I need to know what the length from coupler face to coupler face as well as the center of the first pilot wheel to the center of the last wheel on the tender's trailing truck. Matt Link Matt, According to Staufer's Pennsylvania Railroad Steam and Electric Locomotive Diagrams, the dimensions are as follows: Coupler to coupler: T1=122'-9 3/4" Q2=124'-7 1/8" CL-CL of first and last wheel: T1=107'-0" Q2=107'-7 1/2" Jerry Breon Reading, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Q-2 and T-1 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 13:20:05 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C192C7.06EC9640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have the equpment diagrams that show these dimensions for the T1 & Q2 on my website... Check out: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=q2.gif http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=t1_6110-6111.gif http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=t1_after1_1_45.gif Hope this helps out! Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of TJ LInk Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 10:42 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Q-2 and T-1 Fellas, Does anyone have prints of the Q-2 and T-1 locomotives showing dimensions? I need to know what the length from coupler face to coupler face as well as the center of the first pilot wheel to the center of the last wheel on the tender's trailing truck. Matt Link ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C192C7.06EC9640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have=20 the equpment diagrams that show these dimensions for the T1 & Q2 on = my=20 website... 
 
Check=20 out:
h= ttp://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=3Dq2.gif<= /DIV>
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=3Dt1_6110-= 6111.gif
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=3Dt1_aft= er1_1_45.gif
 
Hope=20 this helps out!
 
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of TJ LInk
Sent: = Tuesday,=20 January 01, 2002 10:42 AM
To: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject:=20 [PRR] Q-2 and T-1

Fellas,
    Does anyone have prints of the Q-2 and T-1 = locomotives=20 showing dimensions? I need to know what the length from coupler face = to=20 coupler face as well as the center of the first pilot wheel to the = center of=20 the last wheel on the tender's trailing truck.
    Matt Link
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C192C7.06EC9640-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 15:01:53 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Not so Pennsy Interlocking tower On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, robert netzlof wrote: > Ertl sold off the model, which was advertised as "BR&P > Ashford Tower". They offered it only fully assembled > for $40. I found that very resistable. Got a couple > of the earlier Design Associates kits on eBay for much > less. Thought of getting 5 so that I would have more > than the BR&P did. The Railway Design Associates model is still around and retails for $20, btw. http://www.railwaydesign.com/store/struct/ is the maker's online store. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 16:40:06 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Rockville Bridge B'day Party From: Jerry Britton The December 30th edition of the Sunday Patriot News (Harrisburg, Pa.) had a brief article on the Rockville Bridge and the fact that it opened on March 30, 1902 and that its 100th birthday is approaching. The article goes on to state that there will be a "Birthday Party" for the bridge, from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. at the Lions Club Park in Marysville. However, the party is being delayed a week due to Easter and will take place on April 6. Since I am somewhat local to the area (25 minute drive), I will contact the organizers and pass on more info as it comes available. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "TJ LInk" Subject: [PRR] Bowser H-21 hoppers Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 18:56:23 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C192F6.01DDAE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fellas, Looking for an online dealer (or any I can contact) who can get = me these hoppers for less than advertised on the Bowser site. I figure = for my coming layout I'll want many of these. I'm willing to buy 12 = packs. I've come across these for as low as $9.50 ea., but I lost that = site and now I cannot find any site! Matt Link ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C192F6.01DDAE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fellas, Looking for an online dealer (or any I can contact) who can = get me=20 these hoppers for less than advertised on the Bowser site. I figure for = my=20 coming layout I'll want many of these. I'm willing to buy 12 packs. I've = come=20 across these for as low as $9.50 ea., but I lost that site and now = I cannot=20 find any site! Matt Link
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C192F6.01DDAE80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 06:24:34 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Congressional/ Senator Trains From: Beth Caples I need to find information on the Congo train sets built by Budd in the early 1950's. What I need is car type and/ or class, car number , and name given to each car. The PRR Color Guide does just enough to wet my apatite but doesn't give me enough info. to go on. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:18:00 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Bowser Projects From: Jerry Britton The N scale H21a project is doing well. The first shot has been in and reviewed. Still on target for late February delivery. As for HO scale... a B6 0-6-0 is coming your way! (No add'l details at this time.) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Franke" Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 18:46:09 -0500 Amen for an N scale version HO stands for Horribly Oversized Mark Franke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Dugas" To: Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b > Hi Greg, All, > > TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > > > PS... It will be some time before we see it on the shelves, be patient, and what do YUZE GIZE need next! > > Why, an N-Scale version, of course! > > Thanks, > > Ron. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Roc83@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 19:12:02 EST Subject: [PRR] SD-7 --part1_110.b09c0fa.2964fbd2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list, In my little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy only had two SD-7s. These units were #8588 and #8589, class ES15ax. A note referring to these units noted hump control; Rail Washers. I understand what a hump yard is but what is hump control? Additionally, what are rail washers? Thanks Ralph --part1_110.b09c0fa.2964fbd2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list,
       In my little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy only had two SD-7s.  These units were #8588 and #8589, class ES15ax.  A note referring to these units noted hump control; Rail Washers.  I understand what a hump yard is but what is hump control?  Additionally, what are rail washers? 

Thanks

Ralph --part1_110.b09c0fa.2964fbd2_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 19:27:28 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C193C3.8421D4C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ralph, These two units were specifically purchased for a branch of = the Pennsy in Ohio. There is a short expanation in the book Pennsy = Diesel Years Vol 1 Hope this helps Jim Lash ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roc83@aol.com=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 7:12 PM Subject: [PRR] SD-7 Hello list, In my little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy only = had two SD-7s. These units were #8588 and #8589, class ES15ax. A note = referring to these units noted hump control; Rail Washers. I understand = what a hump yard is but what is hump control? Additionally, what are = rail washers? =20 Thanks Ralph=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C193C3.8421D4C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ralph,  These two units were = specifically purchased for a branch of the Pennsy in Ohio.  There = is a=20 short expanation in the book Pennsy Diesel Years Vol 1  Hope this=20 helps  Jim Lash
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Roc83@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, = 2002 7:12=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] SD-7

Hello = list,
       In my=20 little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy only had two = SD-7s. =20 These units were #8588 and #8589, class ES15ax.  A note referring = to=20 these units noted hump control; Rail Washers.  I understand what = a hump=20 yard is but what is hump control?  Additionally, what are rail=20 washers? 

Thanks

Ralph=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C193C3.8421D4C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:51:03 -0500 From: davep Subject: [Fwd: Re: [PRR] SD-7] ----- Original Message ----- From: Roc83@aol.com >> In my little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy >>only had two SD-7s. These units were #8588 and #8589, >>class ES15ax. A note referring to these units noted hump >>control; Rail Washers. I understand what a hump yard is >>but what is hump control? Special electronics/controls allowing fine control of TE at Low Speed. Usually used in hump switching (hence the name). cf below >> Additionally, what are rail washers? Round things, under the track bolts? Used for dirty rail (ie pre retention terlets)? Ahemmmm As the cited reference will no doubt explain: These locs were for a specific, steep line. Hence, fine control of TE to allow running close to wheel slip limits. To further enhance TE, provision was made to remove debris from the rail head, to enhance traction: rail washer best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:14:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 1900 CT1000 Now Available From: Jerry Britton Thanks to a loan from Robert Netzloff, there is now a PDF on Keystone Crossings of the July 1, 1900 edition of the CT1000. This volume covers the entire PRR which, at the time, did not include Pennsylvania Lines (aka Lines West). Once the two were joined, the CT1000 was published as a complete book and as three regional sub-books. Thank you, Mr. Netzlof! ;-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:35:09 EST Subject: [PRR] RR Museum of PA Christmas Card As a member of The Friends of The RR Museum of PA. I have been getting a Nice Christmas card each year from the Museum with either a photo of one of the Museums pieces of rolling stock or artwork from one of the many know PRR artists graceing the card. Well today is January 2nd 2002 and my Holiday Card from the Museum arrived today. Now Its nice that they send the card s out at all... and I know the postoffice has been working under stress this holiday season. But, I found it amusing that the art work on this years card is the famous Teller print On Time. . . go figure! Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:00:24 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C193D0.7FBDA460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ralph, These two locomotives were specifically purchased and modified to = operate on the Madison Incline, on the PRR branch to Madison, Indiana, = which was the steepest standard gauge grade in the US. This line is = still operated, although it is now the Madison Railway, owned by the = City of Madison Port Authority. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roc83@aol.com=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 7:12 PM Subject: [PRR] SD-7 Hello list, In my little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy only = had two SD-7s. These units were #8588 and #8589, class ES15ax. A note = referring to these units noted hump control; Rail Washers. I understand = what a hump yard is but what is hump control? Additionally, what are = rail washers? =20 Thanks Ralph=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C193D0.7FBDA460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ralph,
 
These two locomotives were specifically purchased = and modified=20 to operate on the Madison Incline,  on the PRR branch to Madison, = Indiana,=20 which was the steepest standard gauge grade in the US. This line is = still=20 operated, although it is now the Madison Railway, owned by the City of = Madison=20 Port Authority.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Roc83@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, = 2002 7:12=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] SD-7

Hello = list,
       In my=20 little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy only had two = SD-7s. =20 These units were #8588 and #8589, class ES15ax.  A note referring = to=20 these units noted hump control; Rail Washers.  I understand what = a hump=20 yard is but what is hump control?  Additionally, what are rail=20 washers? 

Thanks

Ralph=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C193D0.7FBDA460-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:11:22 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 --part1_9e.1ffe23fc.296517ca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/02/2002 6:35:23 PM Central Standard Time, sjlash@tcis.net writes: > Hi Ralph, These two units were specifically purchased for a branch of the > Pennsy in Ohio. There is a short expanation in the book Pennsy Diesel > Years Vol 1 Hope this helps Jim Lash > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Roc83@aol.com >> To: prr-talk@dsop.com >> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 7:12 PM >> Subject: [PRR] SD-7 >> >> >> Hello list, >> In my little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy only had >> two SD-7s. These units were #8588 and #8589, class ES15ax. A note >> referring to these units noted hump control; Rail Washers. I understand >> what a hump yard is but what is hump control? Additionally, what are rail >> washers? >> >> Thanks >> >> Ralph > Hi Ralph, I believe these two units were purchased for use on Madison Hill in Indiana. Al --part1_9e.1ffe23fc.296517ca_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/02/2002 6:35:23 PM Central Standard Time, sjlash@tcis.net writes:


Hi Ralph,  These two units were specifically purchased for a branch of the Pennsy in Ohio.  There is a short expanation in the book Pennsy Diesel Years Vol 1  Hope this helps  Jim Lash

----- Original Message -----
From: Roc83@aol.com
To: prr-talk@dsop.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 7:12 PM
Subject: [PRR] SD-7


Hello list,
       In my little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy only had two SD-7s.  These units were #8588 and #8589, class ES15ax.  A note referring to these units noted hump control; Rail Washers.  I understand what a hump yard is but what is hump control?  Additionally, what are rail washers? 

Thanks

Ralph



Hi Ralph,
I believe these two units were purchased for use on Madison Hill in Indiana.
Al --part1_9e.1ffe23fc.296517ca_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] SD-7 (ES15ax) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:12:27 -0500 Ralph, The purpose of these two units was to move tonnage out of the Ohio River Valley at Madison Indiana. Said grade is 5.89%, making it one of the steepest mainline climbes in the USA. Rumor has it that this cut is LOADED with nasties (read copperheads). Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:36:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 From: EJ Caylor I thought these were the Madison Hill pair, only operated on the 5.89% grade leading from N. Madison to Madison, IN. E.J. Caylor Webmaster: Central Indiana Railroad Information Network http://members.tripod.com/Caylorman/rail.htm ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 22:22:53 -0500 From: Nick Kulp Subject: [PRR] Looking for Jim Clay --=====================_914316==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hey Jim, Your paonline address doesn't work. I have a session scheduled for Jan 19th t 1300. Can you make it? Nick Kulp Modeling the Cornwall Railroad with major PRR and Reading connections. --=====================_914316==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hey Jim,

Your paonline address doesn't work. I have a session scheduled for Jan 19th t 1300. Can you make it?

Nick Kulp
Modeling the Cornwall Railroad with major PRR and Reading connections. --=====================_914316==_.ALT-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 22:42:42 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RR Museum of PA Christmas Card In a message dated 1/2/02 8:47:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, JONS6755@aol.com writes: << But, I found it amusing that the art work on this years card is the famous Teller print On Time. . . go figure! >> Not sure of your location - or if all were mailed at once, I did get mine 2 or 3 days prior to Christmas - I once got one, some years ago, from the local transit Authority metered well after the first of the year Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:57:37 -0500 Bill, Streetcars also negotiated steeper grades than the Madison Hill, but since the discussion was about PRR and SD7's, I erred in making the implicit assumption that we were talking about common carrier railroads' main lines. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Gregg Mahlkov" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 > Steepest standard gauge (adhesion) in the US?...Well...yes > and no. Mainline steam road...yes. Steepest standard gauge > road...no! > Way back in the early years in the wilds of Michigan's > Upper Peninsula some of the logging roads crossed valleys > by "dip sections", with grades approaching 25~30%!!! these > were operated by the train coasting down one side, > speeding up across the valley bottom (usually a mile or > two wide) and coasting up the other side. As I remember > it, TRAINS once (maybe in the early 70's) ran an article > on this operation...anyone out there remember this > article??? > > Bill Daniels > Tucson, AZ > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:00:24 -0500 > "Gregg Mahlkov" wrote: > >Ralph, > > > >These two locomotives were specifically purchased and > >modified to operate on the Madison Incline, on the PRR > >branch to Madison, Indiana, which was the steepest > >standard gauge grade in the US. This line is still > >operated, although it is now the Madison Railway, owned > >by the City of Madison Port Authority. > > > >Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Roc83@aol.com > > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 7:12 PM > > Subject: [PRR] SD-7 > > > > > > Hello list, > > In my little bit of research I have discovered > >the Pennsy only had two SD-7s. These units were #8588 > >and #8589, class ES15ax. A note referring to these units > >noted hump control; Rail Washers. I understand what a > >hump yard is but what is hump control? Additionally, > >what are rail washers? > > > > Thanks > > > > Ralph > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Norm Bell" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 07:45:37 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C1942A.A2473F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These are the Madison incline engines. In addition to the rail washers = they were ballasted heavier than normal to assist in traction. If you = look at the side sill you will see the difference in thickness. They = did not have MU connections and the couple of times they were needed = together they required separate crews. In steam days the engines were = run pointed up the hill to keep the crown sheets covered and to give a = degree of safety regaridng boiler explosions. CR obviously kept them = there after they took over. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roc83@aol.com=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 6:12 PM Subject: [PRR] SD-7 Hello list, In my little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy only = had two SD-7s. These units were #8588 and #8589, class ES15ax. A note = referring to these units noted hump control; Rail Washers. I understand = what a hump yard is but what is hump control? Additionally, what are = rail washers? =20 Thanks Ralph=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C1942A.A2473F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
These are the Madison incline = engines.  In=20 addition to the rail washers they were ballasted heavier than normal to = assist=20 in traction.  If you look at the side sill you will see the = difference in=20 thickness.   They did not have MU connections and the couple = of times=20 they were needed together they required separate crews.  In steam = days the=20 engines were run pointed up the hill to keep the crown sheets covered = and to=20 give a degree of safety regaridng boiler explosions.  CR obviously = kept=20 them there after they took over.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Roc83@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, = 2002 6:12=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] SD-7

Hello = list,
       In my=20 little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy only had two = SD-7s. =20 These units were #8588 and #8589, class ES15ax.  A note referring = to=20 these units noted hump control; Rail Washers.  I understand what = a hump=20 yard is but what is hump control?  Additionally, what are rail=20 washers? 

Thanks

Ralph=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C1942A.A2473F00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:37:27 +0000 Steve and the List: Did these SD-7 occasionally wander onto other PRR lines in Indiana in the event of a power shortage imbalance? Have these engines been spotted elsewhere on the Pennsy? Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana >From: Steve Long >To: AlbertSR@aol.com >CC: sjlash@tcis.net, Roc83@aol.com, prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 >Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:00:26 -0500 > >Yes, there were the Madison Hill engines. They were serviced at >Hawthorne Yard, Indianapolis. Were stationed at North Madison and were >setup to go engine first down the hill. There's a photo of one of them >in Don Ball's book. >Steve Long > > >AlbertSR@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 01/02/2002 6:35:23 PM Central Standard Time, > > sjlash@tcis.net writes: > > > > > > > >> Hi Ralph, These two units were specifically purchased for a branch > >> of the Pennsy in Ohio. There is a short expanation in the book > >> Pennsy Diesel Years Vol 1 Hope this helps Jim Lash > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Roc83@aol.com > >> > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 7:12 PM > >> > Subject: [PRR] SD-7 > >> > > >> > > >> > Hello list, > >> > In my little bit of research I have discovered the Pennsy > >> > only had two SD-7s. These units were #8588 and #8589, class > >> > ES15ax. A note referring to these units noted hump control; Rail > >> > Washers. I understand what a hump yard is but what is hump > >> > control? Additionally, what are rail washers? > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > Ralph > >> > > Hi Ralph, > > I believe these two units were purchased for use on Madison Hill in > > Indiana. > > Al _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 11:06:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 Just wondering, how did the Madison incline compare with the Saluda grade in North Carolina? Sounds like Madison may be greater, but I think the signs in Saluda claim to be the steepest mainline grade in the US. I was at Saluda last week and it's pretty impressive, the tracks seem to fall off the end of the earth when viewed from the town at the top! But they were rusty, and I wonder if NS has mothballed it. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 11:58:52 -0500 (EST) From: Will Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 Yes NS has...I remember reading that not too long ago..might even have been in one of the ..it is no longer in service... On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 bobsin@nac.net wrote: >Just wondering, how did the Madison incline compare with the >Saluda grade in North Carolina? Sounds like Madison may be >greater, but I think the signs in Saluda claim to be the steepest >mainline grade in the US. I was at Saluda last week and it's pretty >impressive, the tracks seem to fall off the end of the earth when >viewed from the town at the top! But they were rusty, and I wonder >if NS has mothballed it. > >John Bobsin > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > Will Semanchuk-Enser Blue Moon General Manager alcoman@bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Internet Corp. V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:08:53 -0500 From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 They recently announced that they were mothballing the Saluda line. I think the grade was listed at 4.7%. John Ryan bobsin@nac.net wrote: > Just wondering, how did the Madison incline compare with the > Saluda grade in North Carolina? Sounds like Madison may be > greater, but I think the signs in Saluda claim to be the steepest > mainline grade in the US. I was at Saluda last week and it's pretty > impressive, the tracks seem to fall off the end of the earth when > viewed from the town at the top! But they were rusty, and I wonder > if NS has mothballed it. > > John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Adrion Figel" Subject: [PRR] Passenger Cars Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:20:37 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C19437.E7843D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Guys, Iam new to the site, looks like a great venue for information. Iam assembling a PRR passenger train. The motive power is 3 EMD F7A = units (ABA) and corrugated side cars with the brown and yellow color = scheme. Iam somewhat a novice to all of this so, bear with me. My = question concerns the interiors of the cars as to the color scheme might = have been (seats, floors, partions, etc.) so I may be able to paint them = accurately.=20 Any information will be greatly appreciated. = Thanks, Adrion ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C19437.E7843D40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Guys, Iam new to the = site, looks=20 like a great venue for information.
 
Iam assembling a PRR = passenger=20 train.  The motive power is 3 EMD F7A units (ABA) and corrugated = side cars=20 with the brown and yellow color scheme.  Iam somewhat a novice to = all of=20 this so, bear with me.  My question concerns the interiors of the = cars as=20 to the color scheme might have been (seats, floors, partions, etc.) so I = may be=20 able to paint them accurately.
 
Any information will be = greatly=20 appreciated.
 
    =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     Thanks, Adrion
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C19437.E7843D40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Norm Bell" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 11:24:07 -0600 If I had any alternative and merged with a company that had to run Saluda as their only option I would get rid of it just as fast as I could. It is an extremely risky and dangerous operation that I could do with out. Since N&W had their own lines I would use them over Southern's Saluda any day of the week. Why run a nightmare when you don't have to? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." To: Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 > They recently announced that they were mothballing the Saluda line. I > think the grade was listed at 4.7%. > > John Ryan > > bobsin@nac.net wrote: > > > Just wondering, how did the Madison incline compare with the > > Saluda grade in North Carolina? Sounds like Madison may be > > greater, but I think the signs in Saluda claim to be the steepest > > mainline grade in the US. I was at Saluda last week and it's pretty > > impressive, the tracks seem to fall off the end of the earth when > > viewed from the town at the top! But they were rusty, and I wonder > > if NS has mothballed it. > > > > John Bobsin > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:26:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) John, Will, List Not sure how the Pennsy did it on Madison Hill but I had the chance to see the NS in operation on Saluda while on a road trip several years ago. While treking down the highway we caught the odor of freshly cut wood out the car windows. Low and behold a wood chip train coming out of Spartansburg? was heading north. We started to follow the train (about 18 cars or so and 3 locos). Knowing the train was headed for Saluda we raced ahead to the top of the hill. We waited and waited, finally the train came up, pulling only 5 cars. Another railfan there told us to head back down the hill to where the rest of the train was left. He said the locos will be back down to haul more car lots up the hill. When we got to the bottom of the hill and looked up to where the train would have to go, we understood then why only a few cars at a time. When the train crew came back down I yelled up to the brakeman-conductor-switchtender? asking him how many more trips he would have to make up and down the hill to get is short train over. "3 more" he yelled back. Watching those locos rev up and make a run was really something. Can you imagine that in steam days? Wow! Now back to Madison Hill. Was the operation similar to Saluda Grade?...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:37:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Steep Grades List, Speaking of steep grades, I know of another one here in the Pitssburgh area. It is located west of Conway Yards in the town of New Brighton. It is a branch from the Ft. Wayne Mainline. It used to service industries in New Brighton and at the top of the hill in Rochester. I don't have any track charts or other info informing me of the grade %. Anyone here have any? It is steep though. I do remember talking to a local ex-PRR-PC Engineer that used to make the run. It was similar to the story I shared on Saluda. His power was usually an SW-1 (needed small power due to a sharpe left curve at the top of the hill). In steam days I assume a B6 had the chore. The grade is no longer used. (Kids burnt the trestle) NS does use part of the branch for MOW storage etc......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:41:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger Cars From: Jerry Britton On 1/3/02 12:20 PM, Adrion Figel (smred@prodigy.net) wrote: > Iam assembling a PRR passenger train. The motive power is 3 EMD F7A units > (ABA) and corrugated side cars with the brown and yellow color scheme. Iam > somewhat a novice to all of this so, bear with me. My question concerns the > interiors of the cars as to the color scheme might have been (seats, floors, > partions, etc.) so I may be able to paint them accurately. > > Any information will be greatly appreciated. > Welcome, Adrion! First, model for yourself and your own satisfaction. You'll find lots of info here, perhaps more than you want. At times your "plans" will receive recommendations. With that in mind... 1) EMD F7's were freight engines. They were not used to pull passenger trains. For passenger service, you want E7's (ABA) or E8's (AA). In HO scale, look for Life Like Proto 2000 units on eBay (no longer available retail); in N scale, Kato (E8's still available). 2) The "brown" you refer to should appear more of a red. It's called "Tuscan Red". Before 1952 the lettering was "Gold"; afterwards it was called "Dulux Gold" which appeared as more of a yellow. 3) Here's where I may get quickly corrected -- most of the solid corrugated car sets ran on what is now the "Northeast Corridor", that is, Washington-Baltimore-Philadelphia-New York City. Corrugated cars appeared intermixed with smooth side cars on east-west trains (New York City-Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh to St. Louis, Chicago, etc.). 4) Interior info is very hard to come by. The "Pullman-Standard Library, Volume Four" (very hard to come by) is a trove of information, including hundreds of black and white photos of the interiors. The text alludes to some of the colors used. I can tell you that the PRR used a lot of stainless in their walls and trim. Guess it was the "in thing" back then! Good luck, and keep at it! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Norm Bell" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 11:49:03 -0600 Madison is nothing like Saluda and yet it is. Basically the Madison incline is used to get cars out of the Ohio river valley up to the regular height of the state of Ohio. I believe this is a branch and as such does not have through traffic or connections. Therefore train length is not what it is on Saluda nor is the frequency. Madison is much shorter and steeper. Trains had an article on Slauda many years ago. It also includes some run away tracks that are purposely set for the run away direction that funnels trains up hill through gravel to stop them. The only way that a train can get clearance is for the engineer to blow a horn signal to the operator of the switch that the train is under control. Only then does he throw the switch so the train can continue on down the mountain. I don't believe Madison has any run away protection. It is my understanding that there is (or was) an engine at Purdue University ( That is why they are the boilermakers) that was one of the steam engines used on this line. It is an 0-10-0 and drawings were in the centerspread of MR in the late 60's. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: "Will" Cc: ; Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) > John, Will, List > > Not sure how the Pennsy did it on Madison Hill but I had the chance > to see the NS in operation on Saluda while on a road trip several years > ago. While treking down the highway we caught the odor of freshly cut > wood out the car windows. Low and behold a wood chip train coming out of > Spartansburg? was heading north. We started to follow the train (about > 18 cars or so and 3 locos). Knowing the train was headed for Saluda we > raced ahead to the top of the hill. We waited and waited, finally the > train came up, pulling only 5 cars. Another railfan there told us to > head back down the hill to where the rest of the train was left. He said > the locos will be back down to haul more car lots up the hill. When we > got to the bottom of the hill and looked up to where the train would > have to go, we understood then why only a few cars at a time. When the > train crew came back down I yelled up to the > brakeman-conductor-switchtender? asking him how many more trips he would > have to make up and down the hill to get is short train over. "3 more" > he yelled back. Watching those locos rev up and make a run was really > something. Can you imagine that in steam days? Wow! > Now back to Madison Hill. Was the operation similar to Saluda > Grade?...Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:55:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 From: EJ Caylor When Penn Central took over, they were assigned to Avon as a maintenance base. I have heard then that they occasionally ran up the I&F to Logansport, to blow the carbon out of them. I imagine that the same was done during the PRR days. E.J. Caylor Webmaster: Central Indiana Railroad Information Network http://members.tripod.com/Caylorman/rail.htm ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:39:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (long) From: EJ Caylor Here's a summary of the instructions for operating on the Madison Hill, taken from Western Region ETT No. 7, dated 10/29/67. Only the ERS-15AX engines were allowed to operate on the branch between the derail located at 4750 feetsouth of MP 42 and Bridge 44.14 (Main St., Madison). The engine is to be operated at the south end of the train, unless otherwise instructed by the Superintendent Transportation. Trains in either direction were not to exceed 15 cars or 350 gross tons or 51 gross tons per effective brake, exclusive of engine, unless otherwise instructed. Light engine movements were prohibited. All dynamic braking equipment, air brake equipment on both engine and cars, as well as rail washing device, coolant levels, lubricating oil, and fuel oil were to be checked at both the engine terminal & yard terminal. Brake pipe pressure on the train was to be set at 110 lbs., and after the brake test, if the pressure was at 105 lbs or more the train could depart. A running brake test was to be made approaching the derail located 1155 feet south of North Madison Station and train stopped. After brake release, the retaining valves of all loaded cars were to be placed in high pressure setting, empty cars placed in low pressure setting. After passing derail and while on the grade: Dynamics brakes must be used to obtain maximum effect, while making sure the load meter does not reach 700 Amps. Train speed is to be controlled by supplimenting dymanic brakes with train brakes. Train speed must avoid going over 8 MPH, and travel time from derail to Bridge 44.14 is to take a minimum of 12 minutes. If the locomotive becomes inoperative in any way, while on the grade, movement must be stopped and all hand brakes applied, until locomotive becomes operative again. hope this clears some stuff up, E.J. Caylor Webmaster: Central Indiana Railroad Information Network http://members.tripod.com/Caylorman/rail.htm ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:47:48 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Steep Grades On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Gary Mittner wrote: > List, > > Speaking of steep grades, I know of another one here in the > Pitssburgh area. It is located west of Conway Yards in the town of New > Brighton. It is a branch from the Ft. Wayne Mainline. It used to service > industries in New Brighton and at the top of the hill in Rochester. I > don't have any track charts or other info informing me of the grade %. > Anyone here have any? It is steep though. I do remember talking to a I recall Mark Bej wanted to model that branch, perhaps he has some information. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:49:52 -0500 Norm, When did Ohio take over the state of Indiana?? The Madison Branch has always been entirely with in the State of Indiana, diverging off the Indiananpolis-Louisville line at Columbus, IN. There was a story in "Trains" recently about the first time the ex-NYC shops got hold of the "cadillacs", as the Madison engines were called. Being unaware of why a locomotive in Indiana would need dynamic brakes, they removed them. The first trip down the "hill" after shopping was quite exciting, to say the least! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm Bell" To: "Prr-Talk" ; "Gary Mittner" Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) > Madison is nothing like Saluda and yet it is. Basically the Madison incline > is used to get cars out of the Ohio river valley up to the regular height of > the state of Ohio. I believe this is a branch and as such does not have > through traffic or connections. Therefore train length is not what it is on > Saluda nor is the frequency. Madison is much shorter and steeper. Trains > had an article on Slauda many years ago. It also includes some run away > tracks that are purposely set for the run away direction that funnels trains > up hill through gravel to stop them. The only way that a train can get > clearance is for the engineer to blow a horn signal to the operator of the > switch that the train is under control. Only then does he throw the switch > so the train can continue on down the mountain. I don't believe Madison has > any run away protection. It is my understanding that there is (or was) an > engine at Purdue University ( That is why they are the boilermakers) that > was one of the steam engines used on this line. It is an 0-10-0 and > drawings were in the centerspread of MR in the late 60's. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Mittner" > To: "Will" > Cc: ; > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 11:26 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) > > > > John, Will, List > > > > Not sure how the Pennsy did it on Madison Hill but I had the chance > > to see the NS in operation on Saluda while on a road trip several years > > ago. While treking down the highway we caught the odor of freshly cut > > wood out the car windows. Low and behold a wood chip train coming out of > > Spartansburg? was heading north. We started to follow the train (about > > 18 cars or so and 3 locos). Knowing the train was headed for Saluda we > > raced ahead to the top of the hill. We waited and waited, finally the > > train came up, pulling only 5 cars. Another railfan there told us to > > head back down the hill to where the rest of the train was left. He said > > the locos will be back down to haul more car lots up the hill. When we > > got to the bottom of the hill and looked up to where the train would > > have to go, we understood then why only a few cars at a time. When the > > train crew came back down I yelled up to the > > brakeman-conductor-switchtender? asking him how many more trips he would > > have to make up and down the hill to get is short train over. "3 more" > > he yelled back. Watching those locos rev up and make a run was really > > something. Can you imagine that in steam days? Wow! > > Now back to Madison Hill. Was the operation similar to Saluda > > Grade?...Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > > > PRR Loco Pics: > > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > > > & > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:52:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) From: EJ Caylor Norm and all, I have read that the main industry at the tail end of the Madison Branch was AEP, a power plant that got it's coal by barge but got plant equipment by rail. I have also heard that there were some grain silos as well. The engine you speak of, the Reuben Wells, was at Purdue for sometime. It now sits in the basement of the Indianapolis Children's Museum with a wooden PRR caboose. E.J. Caylor Webmaster: Central Indiana Railroad Information Network http://members.tripod.com/Caylorman/rail.htm ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:30:34 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] R-50b Hey Yuze Gize... We have rounded the corner on the R50b(HO Scale). Let's as a group determine exactly how many paint scheme the R50b had including PC if at all. (seems I remember one in Altoona with Keystones only) We need to be as accurate as humanly posssible because the project is on the drawing board and headed for the tool maker. So, if we can, I would like to have the information ready when I go to Cocoa Beach next Tuesday to hand off to Walthers. I guess it is okay to now let you all know who is doing it. So,collectively I would like to see this group get it the way they want it. I will supply the color match chips for the lettering and car color. This has been a project that that has been in the works for a while, that Bruce Smith and I have been working on since last January, once we got the committment from Walthers, and Jerry has been made aware of it also. I have included Mike Brock's email address (in the Copy address) just in case there is some last minute developments that I should be a ill benifit far more than just us Pennsy Modelers as they went everywhere. TIA, Greg Martin PS... It will be some time before we see it on the shelves, be patient, and what do YUZE GIZE need next! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Norm Bell" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:40:32 -0600 As I recall the only movement that involved both engines was a power plant load piece of equipment. There was a picture in Trains at the time as it was the only known movement involving both engines. There may have been subsequent moves since then. Norm Bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "EJ Caylor" To: Cc: ; Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) > Norm and all, > I have read that the main industry at the tail end of the Madison > Branch was AEP, a power plant that got it's coal by barge but got plant > equipment by rail. I have also heard that there were some grain silos as > well. The engine you speak of, the Reuben Wells, was at Purdue for > sometime. It now sits in the basement of the Indianapolis Children's > Museum with a wooden PRR caboose. > > E.J. Caylor > Webmaster: Central Indiana Railroad Information Network > http://members.tripod.com/Caylorman/rail.htm > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:06:12 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: (in part) > . . . . be patient, and what do YUZE GIZE need next! > Congo Cars from Walthers. I know the parlors are coming. Will they be pained in early Congo -(Tuscan letterboard and belt rail) or just Amtrak and PC and Scotchlight schemes :-(( I anxiously await the corridor coach, coffee shop, twin unit diner, all room parlor, and the Obs. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] R-50b Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:29:33 -0500 If Walther's is getting into smoothsides how about the Harbor series Bar Lounge! Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:48:06 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Hi Greg, All, TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > PS... It will be some time before we see it on the shelves, be patient, and what do YUZE GIZE need next! Why, an N-Scale version, of course! Thanks, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:53:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) There's a Guinness book, "Rail Facts & Feats;" they call Madison Hill (5.89 %) the "steepest standard-gauge incline in the USA"; Saluda Hill (4.7 %) the "steepest main-line gradient in the USA". They say the world's steepest adhesion-worked incline is 9 % on the French electric line to Chamonix. Damn! I have ridden it, and nobody told me! I believe much or all of this uses third-rail power. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:54:02 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Congressional/ Senator Trains Try the diagrams on Rob Schoenberg's Website (http://prr.railfan.net/). All of the Congo cars are there. The floor plans usually provide the names or numbers of the cars. The Congo had coaches (P85E), parlors (PL85), an all-room parlor (PL85A), a twin unit diner-lounge/kitchen, a coffee shop car, and an observation. The Senator was similar but had a single unit diner and the interior of the obs was slightly different. The telephone was in the all-room parlor on the Congo, and in the Obs on the Senator. The "lounge" car which Walthers has just announced in HO is actually the Congo Parlor car. And I understand the coach is coming :-)) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Beth Caples (AKA Jim) wrote: > I need to find information on the Congo train sets built by Budd in the > early 1950's. What I need is car type and/ or class, car number , and > name given to each car. The PRR Color Guide does just enough to wet my > apatite but doesn't give me enough info. to go on. Any assistance would > be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:54:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b In a message dated 1/3/02 2:42:23 PM Central Standard Time, cpc1@westchestergov.com writes: << If Walther's is getting into smoothsides how about the Harbor series Bar Lounge! >> I know this flies against the ready-to-run clean sweep of the hobby, but the AMB kit is not all that difficult. Biggest problem is fitting to the less than well-tooled ECW core kit. I will put up a picture with my new toy from Santa---a Nikon 885---as soon as I catch up on everything else. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:28:52 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] A request - reference checks in Rail Model Journal I'd like to ask a favor. I'm rechecking a table of "photos published vs. lettering schemes" for the upcoming Keystone article on PRR Covered Hopper Standard Lettering. As you can imagine, it's important that this data be accurate for the article. I've indexed a few photos from other peoples' magazines over the past several years, and am having trouble finding copies of RMJ to recheck. My citations are as follows: Phase Car class Number Source PK H40 #261445 RMJ Feb 1991, p52 SK1a H34 #256177 RMJ Oct 1994, p20 PK H45 #260869 RMJ May 1994, p51 ? H34C #257735 RMJ April 1995 p 15 ? H34B #257482 RMJ Nov 1995, p53 PK H42 #260061 RMJ Feb 1997, p6 If anyone has RMJ in their files, I'd appreciate verification of the above. In addition, if any "Return to When Empty" reporting marks are legible, that would be a real plus. Thank you very much for your assistance. A lot of people have put effort into this article over the last 3 years, and I'm hoping the result complements their work. Rick Tipton ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:28:52 EST Subject: [PRR] A request - reference checks in Rail Model Journal I'd like to ask a favor. I'm rechecking a table of "photos published vs. lettering schemes" for the upcoming Keystone article on PRR Covered Hopper Standard Lettering. As you can imagine, it's important that this data be accurate for the article. I've indexed a few photos from other peoples' magazines over the past several years, and am having trouble finding copies of RMJ to recheck. My citations are as follows: Phase Car class Number Source PK H40 #261445 RMJ Feb 1991, p52 SK1a H34 #256177 RMJ Oct 1994, p20 PK H45 #260869 RMJ May 1994, p51 ? H34C #257735 RMJ April 1995 p 15 ? H34B #257482 RMJ Nov 1995, p53 PK H42 #260061 RMJ Feb 1997, p6 If anyone has RMJ in their files, I'd appreciate verification of the above. In addition, if any "Return to When Empty" reporting marks are legible, that would be a real plus. Thank you very much for your assistance. A lot of people have put effort into this article over the last 3 years, and I'm hoping the result complements their work. Rick Tipton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:31:07 -0500 Guys, Now you see why that english teacher in jr hi used to harp all the time about PROOF READING. I didn't. There should have been a question mark after Ohio in the original text reply to Ralph. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Mahlkov" To: "Norm Bell" ; "Prr-Talk" ; "Gary Mittner" Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) > Norm, > > When did Ohio take over the state of Indiana?? The Madison Branch has always > been entirely with in the State of Indiana, diverging off the > Indiananpolis-Louisville line at Columbus, IN. There was a story in > "Trains" recently about the first time the ex-NYC shops got hold of the > "cadillacs", as the Madison engines were called. Being unaware of why a > locomotive in Indiana would need dynamic brakes, they removed them. The > first trip down the "hill" after shopping was quite exciting, to say the > least! > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norm Bell" > To: "Prr-Talk" ; "Gary Mittner" > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 12:49 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) > > > > Madison is nothing like Saluda and yet it is. Basically the Madison > incline > > is used to get cars out of the Ohio river valley up to the regular height > of > > the state of Ohio. I believe this is a branch and as such does not have > > through traffic or connections. Therefore train length is not what it is > on > > Saluda nor is the frequency. Madison is much shorter and steeper. Trains > > had an article on Slauda many years ago. It also includes some run away > > tracks that are purposely set for the run away direction that funnels > trains > > up hill through gravel to stop them. The only way that a train can get > > clearance is for the engineer to blow a horn signal to the operator of the > > switch that the train is under control. Only then does he throw the > switch > > so the train can continue on down the mountain. I don't believe Madison > has > > any run away protection. It is my understanding that there is (or was) an > > engine at Purdue University ( That is why they are the boilermakers) that > > was one of the steam engines used on this line. It is an 0-10-0 and > > drawings were in the centerspread of MR in the late 60's. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gary Mittner" > > To: "Will" > > Cc: ; > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 11:26 AM > > Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 (little off topic) > > > > > > > John, Will, List > > > > > > Not sure how the Pennsy did it on Madison Hill but I had the chance > > > to see the NS in operation on Saluda while on a road trip several years > > > ago. While treking down the highway we caught the odor of freshly cut > > > wood out the car windows. Low and behold a wood chip train coming out of > > > Spartansburg? was heading north. We started to follow the train (about > > > 18 cars or so and 3 locos). Knowing the train was headed for Saluda we > > > raced ahead to the top of the hill. We waited and waited, finally the > > > train came up, pulling only 5 cars. Another railfan there told us to > > > head back down the hill to where the rest of the train was left. He said > > > the locos will be back down to haul more car lots up the hill. When we > > > got to the bottom of the hill and looked up to where the train would > > > have to go, we understood then why only a few cars at a time. When the > > > train crew came back down I yelled up to the > > > brakeman-conductor-switchtender? asking him how many more trips he would > > > have to make up and down the hill to get is short train over. "3 more" > > > he yelled back. Watching those locos rev up and make a run was really > > > something. Can you imagine that in steam days? Wow! > > > Now back to Madison Hill. Was the operation similar to Saluda > > > Grade?...Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > > > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > > > > > PRR Loco Pics: > > > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > > > > > & > > > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > > and...... > > > > > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAJK4@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:18:12 EST Subject: [PRR] M1 --part1_91.16023b75.29665cd4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To anyone who is interested, the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania moved the M1 yesterday. The M1 has not moved in atleast ten years and there was a lot of preparation done by the restoration shop crew to get this big engine to move once again. If anyone is interested in seeing the M1's newest "home" in the yard, it is located right along Gap Road. Walt --part1_91.16023b75.29665cd4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To anyone who is interested, the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania moved the M1 yesterday.  The M1 has not moved in atleast ten years and there was a lot of preparation done by the restoration shop crew to get this big engine to move once again.  If anyone is interested in seeing the M1's newest "home" in the yard, it is located right along Gap Road.


Walt --part1_91.16023b75.29665cd4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] X-29 steam line Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:29:15 -0500 Hi All, Does anyone have sketches or PRR drawings for the "L" shaped steam connection lines, preferably for the X-29 REA car? Any help would be most appreciated. Please reply to billlane@snip.net Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:29:15 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] X-29 steam line Hi All, Does anyone have sketches or PRR drawings for the "L" shaped steam connection lines, preferably for the X-29 REA car? Any help would be most appreciated. Please reply to billlane@snip.net Thanks Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:46:59 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] M1 In a message dated 1/3/02 5:31:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, WAJK4@aol.com writes: << To anyone who is interested, the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania moved the M1 yesterday. The M1 has not moved in atleast ten years and there was a lot of preparation done by the restoration shop crew to get this big engine to move once again. If anyone is interested in seeing the M1's newest "home" in the yard, it is located right along Gap Road. Walt >> Walt and list, This was not a light undertaking by any means!! Does anyone out there in PRR Talk saying goes "I've Gotta See This" ! ! ! Jon S. PRRT&HS 3079 FRM of PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:19:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] M1 Dear List Members- The reply to Walts message should read; Walt and list, This was not a light undertaking by any means!! Does anyone out there in PRR Talk land have any pictures of this move that they would be willing to share... or do you know of a source for any pictures... As the saying goes "I've Gotta See This" ! ! ! Jon S. PRRT&HS 3079 FRM of PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Roc83@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:35:52 EST Subject: [PRR] SD-7 -- Madison grade --part1_c9.1b26c22a.29666f08_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for all the great information. However, I am still not clear on the need of the rail washers. Did they somehow improve traction? Ralph --part1_c9.1b26c22a.29666f08_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for all the great information.  However, I am still not clear on the need of the rail washers.  Did they somehow improve traction?

Ralph --part1_c9.1b26c22a.29666f08_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 -- Madison grade Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:21:24 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C194A4.FA9990C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ralph, Wet leaves on the rails can be extremely slippery. Sand would not get = the leaves off the rails, only the rail washers would. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roc83@aol.com=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 9:35 PM Subject: [PRR] SD-7 -- Madison grade Thanks for all the great information. However, I am still not clear = on the need of the rail washers. Did they somehow improve traction? Ralph=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C194A4.FA9990C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ralph,
 
Wet leaves on the rails can be extremely slippery. = Sand would=20 not get the leaves off the rails, only the rail washers = would.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Roc83@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 03, = 2002 9:35=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] SD-7 -- Madison=20 grade

Thanks for all the great information.  = However, I am=20 still not clear on the need of the rail washers.  Did they = somehow=20 improve traction?

Ralph = ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C194A4.FA9990C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:22:05 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] SD-7 -- Madison grade --part1_128.a4c50b0.296679dd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ralph, they were used to wash leaves off the rail. This line has a canopy of trees over it and I'm sure that during the fall the leaves would have been almost like grease on the rails. Todd Horton --part1_128.a4c50b0.296679dd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ralph, they were used to wash leaves off the rail. This line has a canopy of trees over it and I'm sure that during the fall the leaves would have been almost like grease on the rails. Todd Horton --part1_128.a4c50b0.296679dd_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:16:00 -0600 Greg--That is really great news. Really nice being involved on the front end of a model project. Maybe we won't have to put so much effort into fixing what didn't get done right. Two requests--(1) Can you match--puleeeeze--the car color to one of the popular paint companies rendition of Tuscan? And (2), can you get Walthers to produce a whole bunch of extra trucks? They will solve the problems a lot of folks have with Eastern Car Works. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:08:46 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b In a message dated 1/4/02 12:02:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, mfranke@cox.rr.com writes: << HO stands for Horribly Oversized >> "O" scalers believe that it stands for "How Ordinary" :-) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAJK4@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:59:50 EST Subject: [PRR] Steep Grades --part1_130.72b95c6.2966f336_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Another steep grade the Pennsy had was located in Lancaster. =A0If I am=20 correct, I believe that it connected the PRR yard with the Reading Yard.=20= =A0I=20 was informed that from railhead to railhead was a difference of twenty-eight= =20 feet in one block!!! =A0This bridge no longer exists. =A0Apparently the PRR=20= used=20 a B6 to make this climb, and it couldn't haul any more than three or four=20 cars at a time. =A0I must thank one of the volunteers at the Railroad Museum= of=20 PA for providing me with this information. =A0If anyone has a picture of thi= s=20 bridge I would love to see one. Walt --part1_130.72b95c6.2966f336_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Another steep grade the P= ennsy had was located in Lancaster. =A0If I am correct, I believe that it co= nnected the PRR yard with the Reading Yard. =A0I was informed that from rail= head to railhead was a difference of twenty-eight feet in one block!!! =A0Th= is bridge no longer exists. =A0Apparently the PRR used a B6 to make this cli= mb, and it couldn't haul any more than three or four cars at a time. =A0I mu= st thank one of the volunteers at the Railroad Museum of PA for providing me= with this information. =A0If anyone has a picture of this bridge I would lo= ve to see one.


Walt --part1_130.72b95c6.2966f336_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:14:01 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Harbor Lounge (was: [PRR] R-50b) Bob, Laser Horizons also makes the sides for that car. (Jerry is a dealer for the line - I'm sure he doesn't mind the plug ;-) ) I have built cars from both mfr's and prefer the LH products. I have built a 10-6 from AMB and am glad I have it. It is one of the few kits for a 4140 floor plan. However, it is not without its difficulties. I find the clear plastic sides of the AMB kit is difficult to make opaque. No amount of sprayed paint seems to do the job. The car can not be lit without "glowing" and even without lights, the transparency of the sides is difficult to conceal. The other problem arises from the stainless steel window frames so prominent on PRR Cars. Painting this makes all the difference in the final appearance of a PRR streamliner. On the AMB car it will require you to remove some of the pre-applied masks , paint the car, and re-apply the masks. On the LH cars you must create you own masks for the window frames, but the remove-reapply problem doesn't exist because there is no glazing to protect when painting. BTW I am wrapping up two P70GSRs from LH and am very pleased with the result. Its a common PRR coach not available anywhere else. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/3/02 2:42:23 PM Central Standard Time, > cpc1@westchestergov.com writes: > > << If Walther's is getting into smoothsides how about the Harbor series Bar > Lounge! >> > > I know this flies against the ready-to-run clean sweep of the hobby, but the > AMB kit is not all that difficult. Biggest problem is fitting to the less > than well-tooled ECW core kit. I will put up a picture with my new toy from > Santa---a Nikon 885---as soon as I catch up on everything else. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:13:32 +0000 Steve Hoxie wrote: >Two requests--(1) Can you match--puleeeeze--the car color to one of the >popular paint companies rendition of Tuscan? > >And (2), can you get Walthers to produce a whole bunch of extra trucks? >They will solve the problems a lot of folks have with Eastern Car Works. Excellant requests(especially #2) I second! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:48:57 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Interchange Cars - MP 10-6 "Pacific" Series From: Jerry Britton I fully expect Andy Miller to answer this, but to the list... The "Penn Texas" carried four interchange cars. Among them were two 10-6 cars built by ACF to Pullman Plan 9008 in MP "Eagle" livery. Plan 9008 differs from any the PRR had, and I am trying to find appropriate passenger car sides to build a model...N scale no less! Does anyone know what other railroads used this car? I've struck out with the usual model side manufacturers: Laser Horizons, Brass Car Sides, Union Station Products, Des Plaines Hobbies (which has a Budd "Pacific ___" 10-6), and Marshall Shops (which does all the other MP "Eagle" cars). If nobody knows of sides, does anyone know of published drawings? A long time ago somebody mentioned a "Mainline Modeler" issue, but they were not able to provide a reference to what issue. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Norm Bell" Subject: Re: [PRR] Interchange Cars - MP 10-6 "Pacific" Series Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:19:13 -0600 One of Ball's books, I think it is America's Colroful Railroads, has some color pictures of one of the Mopac Eagles. It is a sharp color scheme ( next to PRR of course). They had some very wide white trim pieces below the windows. You might check with Bobbie Hall's Hobby shop in Dallas if it is still in business. She imported some Mopac stuff over the years in brass. Norm Bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:48 AM Subject: [PRR] Interchange Cars - MP 10-6 "Pacific" Series > I fully expect Andy Miller to answer this, but to the list... > > The "Penn Texas" carried four interchange cars. Among them were two 10-6 > cars built by ACF to Pullman Plan 9008 in MP "Eagle" livery. > > Plan 9008 differs from any the PRR had, and I am trying to find appropriate > passenger car sides to build a model...N scale no less! > > Does anyone know what other railroads used this car? > > I've struck out with the usual model side manufacturers: Laser Horizons, > Brass Car Sides, Union Station Products, Des Plaines Hobbies (which has a > Budd "Pacific ___" 10-6), and Marshall Shops (which does all the other MP > "Eagle" cars). > > If nobody knows of sides, does anyone know of published drawings? A long > time ago somebody mentioned a "Mainline Modeler" issue, but they were not > able to provide a reference to what issue. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 11:24:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Interchange Cars - MP 10-6 "Pacific" Series From: Jerry Britton On 1/4/02 11:19 AM, Norm Bell (nbell@repco.com) wrote: > One of Ball's books, I think it is America's Colroful Railroads, has some > color pictures of one of the Mopac Eagles. It is a sharp color scheme ( > next to PRR of course). They had some very wide white trim pieces below the > windows. You might check with Bobbie Hall's Hobby shop in Dallas if it is > still in business. She imported some Mopac stuff over the years in brass. I've heard of Bobbie Hall's. It was just in the news that the shop closed after 53 (or so) years! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "TJ LInk" Subject: [PRR] Fw: UGLY VIRUS: PLEASE CHECK YOUR COMPUTER Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:30:46 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C19513.40703FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Janet Bristol=20 To: Wendy Rex ; TJ LInk ; Sonia Waugh ; scolvin@adelphia.net ; Rob = Leffler ; RCAndrsn@aol.com ; Michael Burkhart ; MEWLeffler@aol.com ; = lori eberle ; LARAJHG@aol.com ; kml444 ; kml444 ; julie fultz ; Judy = Bordner ; John Lillich ; Jan Blum ; Gannon, Linda (CMG-SF) ; = esupport@apcc.com ; Ellen Limes ; DrPhysio@aol.com ; DARLA OELMANN ; = Cindy Bok ; chefvick@aol.com ; Carpede@aol.com ; Brian Trotta ; BORDNER, = JUDY ; bkltd@juno.com ; Antoinette Lejano ; Ann Lane ; = amynkendall@juno.com=20 Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:06 AM Subject: Fw: UGLY VIRUS: PLEASE CHECK YOUR COMPUTER =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Clutterchasers@cs.com=20 To: Estateorganizing@cs.com ; jwbristol@prodigy.net ; = Clutterchasers@cs.com ; bgeesin@earthlink.net ; getorgnow@wi.rr.com ; = WeMeanBusiness@charlestonchamber.org ; MEWLeffler@aol.com ; = lesliebt@veriomail.com ; leadershipteam@napo.net ; = OrganizerPro@clutter-solutions.comOrganizerPro@clutter-solut ; = overhall@chesapeake.net ; OrganizerPro@clutter-solutions.com=20 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 11:01 PM Subject: UGLY VIRUS: PLEASE CHECK YOUR COMPUTER IMPORTANT....ACT IMMEDIATELY: THERE MAYBE A VIRUS ON YOUR MACHINE THAT = WAS SEND TO THRU A COMPANY THAT I REPRESENT...PLEASE FOLLOW THE = DIRECTIONS BELOW TO AVOID ANY PROBLEMS=20 Dear All:=20 I just checked my computer and found out that an ugly Virus was in my = computer. The person who sent it said their PC was infected and since I = am in their address book, it has probably spread to my computer. By = following the instructions I was able to delete the virus. The bad news = is that you probably have it, as you are in my address book.=20 IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED TO ME THAT I AM SPREADING THIS. ACT NOW!=20 This virus lies dormant for 14 days and then kills your hard drive. = Here is what to do. If you follow the instructions and then see that = you have the virus, you need to send a similar e-mail to everyone in = your address book. Remove the virus by following these steps:=20 1. Go to 'start' then to 'find' or 'search'.=20 2. In the 'search for files or folders' type sulfnbk.exe - this is the = name of the virus.=20 3. In the 'look in' section, make sure you are searching the C drive.=20 4. Hit 'search' or 'find'.=20 5. If your search finds this file, it will be an ugly blackish icon = that will have the name sulfnbk.exe. DO NOT OPEN IT.=20 6. Right click on the file -- go down to 'delete' and left click.=20 7. You will be asked if you want to send the file to the Recycling bin = -- say 'yes'.=20 8. Go to your desktop (where all your icons are) and right click on = the recycle bin and either manually delete the sulfnbk.exe program or = empty the entire bin.=20 9. If you found this virus on your system, send this to all in your = address book because this is how it is transferred.=20 10. If it does not show up on your first 'search' try a 'new search'.=20 Sorry for the trouble and apologies for unwittingly 'infecting' you = should it have been passed on to you.=20 From: Janet Bristol We did find the virus and hopefully we avoided any problems. This is = too important to overlook and not the nicest way to start out the new = year. However, it is urgent that you take immediate action. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C19513.40703FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Janet=20 Bristol
To: Wendy=20 Rex ; TJ LInk ;=20 Sonia = Waugh ;=20 scolvin@adelphia.net ; Rob Leffler = ; RCAndrsn@aol.com ; Michael=20 Burkhart ; MEWLeffler@aol.com ; lori=20 eberle ; LARAJHG@aol.com ; kml444 ; kml444 ; julie fultz = ; Judy = Bordner ;=20 John Lillich ; Jan = Blum ; Gannon, = Linda=20 (CMG-SF) ; esupport@apcc.com ; Ellen=20 Limes ; DrPhysio@aol.com ; DARLA OELMANN ; Cindy Bok ; chefvick@aol.com ; Carpede@aol.com ; Brian = Trotta ;=20 BORDNER,=20 JUDY ; bkltd@juno.com ; Antoinette Lejano ; Ann=20 Lane ; amynkendall@juno.com
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:06 AM
Subject: Fw: UGLY VIRUS: PLEASE CHECK YOUR = COMPUTER

 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Clutterchasers@cs.com
To: Estateorganizing@cs.com ; jwbristol@prodigy.net ; Clutterchasers@cs.com ; bgeesin@earthlink.net ; getorgnow@wi.rr.com ; WeMeanBusiness@charlestoncha= mber.org=20 ; MEWLeffler@aol.com ; lesliebt@veriomail.com ; leadershipteam@napo.net ;