Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 04:22:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Bowser revises A5s drive Hello list, I was just surfing Bowser's site. Bowser plans to offer the A5s shifter with a can motor from the factory. Bowser is also considering offering the A5s as a deluxe kit with all the superdetails included and the holes drilled for them. Here's the link: http://www.bowser-trains.com/Loco%20Pages/A-5.htm I purchased an A5s in 1992 (college graduation present) and I repowered it around 1996 with the (then) Alco Products repower kit. I built the kit pretty much straight from the box except for adding the power reverse (and changing the running board to accomodate it). I struggled with the superdetail kit because I had not (at that time) figured out how to drill holes in zinc without breaking drill bits (center punch the hole and be generous with oil!). In any case, I'm pleased with my A5s and the revisions should make the kit even easier to build. Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 09:15:46 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Happy Anniversary, To Us!!! From: Jerry Britton I don't know the exact date, but "PRR-Talk" is five years old this month! "Keystone Crossings" first appeared a few months earlier, on my then AOL site. In October 1996, I registered DSOP.COM, set up my own servers, moved "KC" there, and then started "PRR-Talk" -- the first Internet mailing list dedicated to the PRR. Today "PRR-Talk" remains the largest PRR list, with just over 500 subscribers. It also remains the only list that invites both prototype and modeling discussion in one forum... a feature I feel is one of its strengths. The searchable archive only goes back to August 1997, but has over 21,000 messages since that time. (I have most of the earlier messages, but they are not in a format readily importable by the server's database.) There have been a few bumps along the way, namely a hard drive crash early in 1997 and several changes of list server software, but everything has been pretty stable for four years or so... and the list has maintained the same address throughout its tenure! I thank all of you for participating in "PRR-Talk". It has vastly improved my knowledge and awareness of the late, great PRR, and has made a major improvement on my modeling efforts. I hope it has helped all of you as well! Happy Anniversary!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Happy Anniversary, To Us!!! Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 09:26:47 -0400 Congrats Jerry! And thanks for the service you provide us SPFs. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 9:16 AM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Happy Anniversary, To Us!!! I don't know the exact date, but "PRR-Talk" is five years old this month! "Keystone Crossings" first appeared a few months earlier, on my then AOL site. In October 1996, I registered DSOP.COM, set up my own servers, moved "KC" there, and then started "PRR-Talk" -- the first Internet mailing list dedicated to the PRR. Today "PRR-Talk" remains the largest PRR list, with just over 500 subscribers. It also remains the only list that invites both prototype and modeling discussion in one forum... a feature I feel is one of its strengths. The searchable archive only goes back to August 1997, but has over 21,000 messages since that time. (I have most of the earlier messages, but they are not in a format readily importable by the server's database.) There have been a few bumps along the way, namely a hard drive crash early in 1997 and several changes of list server software, but everything has been pretty stable for four years or so... and the list has maintained the same address throughout its tenure! I thank all of you for participating in "PRR-Talk". It has vastly improved my knowledge and awareness of the late, great PRR, and has made a major improvement on my modeling efforts. I hope it has helped all of you as well! Happy Anniversary!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Washington DC loco wreck Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:46:57 -0400 The derailment involved Train 173 the "Federal" and according to the report occurred on 15 January 1953 (not 1952). To view the ICC Investigation Report go to http://specialcollections.tasc.dot.gov/ Then click on the ICC Railroad Investigation Reports link. Type in file number 3497-A and click on search. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: [PRR] TrucTrain Article Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 20:06:32 -0400 I believe there was a recent post in response to some TrucTrain questions that referenced an article in The Keystone. I just noticed that this issue is up for sale on eBay along with several others: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1011245520 Jerry Breon Reading, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 10:56:43 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Update: Railfest Dinner at Hoss's Greetings to the group, To date only one person has confirmed a dinner reservation. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 09:47 AM 09/26/2001 -0400, Drew McGhee wrote: >Greetings to the group, > >Well it's that time of year again. I'll be putting together our annual get >together at the Altoona Hoss's. Let's plan to meet for dinner at 6:30 PM at >the Altoona Hoss's located on Valley View Blvd at 7th Street. As in past >years, please let me know if you are planing to attend the dinner. > >If you can't make the dinner, say hello to Andrew and me at the Juniata >Shops Saturday morning. We will be manning the admissions tent from 8 AM >till 1 PM. > >Drew R. McGhee >Altoona, PA >drm6@psu.edu >http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 08:56:38 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Rails Northeast article My absolute all time favorite PRR train article is "Second Trick at Thorn" in the 11/83 Rails Northeast. I must read this at least once a year. Since it is now over 17 years old so the copywrite has probably run out and the publisher is dead would it be possible to post this on Keystone Crossings for others enjoyment? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 09:11:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Rails Northeast article From: Jerry Britton On 10/3/01 8:56 AM, NDBPRR@aol.com (NDBPRR@aol.com) wrote: > My absolute all time favorite PRR train article is "Second Trick at Thorn" in > the 11/83 Rails Northeast. I must read this at least once a year. Since it > is now over 17 years old so the copywrite has probably run out and the > publisher is dead would it be possible to post this on Keystone Crossings for > others enjoyment? > First, the publisher is not dead. He's alive and well and living in Pennsylvania. Second, when the publisher went out of business, he sold all of the makings of the magazine (but not the business per se) to Charlie Horan. While Mr. Horan would like to think the copyright passed to him, even he admits that this was not specifically stated in the terms of his purchase. It has remained a bit of a gray area. Third, many of the articles in Rails Northeast (and Pennsy Journal) were not copyrighted by the publisher. Some were actually picked up from other sources! Further, there have been recent cases that have held that an author providing an article to a magazine/newspaper is providing that publisher for rights on that specific use, but not the right to republish elsewhere. Translation: Even if the RNE copyright ran out, the original author may have rights. Fourth, typically the copyright term is 16 years with a 16 year renewal available. It is UNLIKELY, but not impossible, that such material is/was renewed. The above are non-binding opinions of myself based on previous discussions and personal research into the matter of Bob Reid's publications. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 09:41:02 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Hoss's Dinner Reservations Greetings to the group, Here are those who have confirmed their dinner reservations for the 6:30 Saturday evening dinner at the Altoona Hoss's (Valley View Blvd at 7th Street). Still pleanty of time to reserve a seat. Please let me know prior to noon on Friday, October 5th. Hoss's will be putting us in thier banquet room that features railroadianna. It's quite a nice room. Dennis Sautters Mark Lehman Drew McGhee Sam Vastano indicated that he would probably not be able to make the dinner. Sam - If your schedule permits, please join us at 6:30. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 10:56:27 EDT From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Rails Northeast article "Fourth, typically the copyright term is 16 years with a 16 year renewal available. It is UNLIKELY, but not impossible, that such material is/was renewed." Jerry and all: This was the case. Changes in International Copyright agreements now provide for the lifetime of the author plus 70 years. Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code § 302. Duration of copyright: Works created on or after January 1, 19784 (a) In General.-Copyright in a work created on or after January 1, 1978, subsists from its creation and, except as provided by the following subsections, endures for a term consisting of the life of the author and 70 years after the author's death. § 303. Duration of copyright: Works created but not published or copyrighted before January 1, 19785 (a) Copyright in a work created before January 1, 1978, but not theretofore in the public domain or copyrighted, subsists from January 1, 1978, and endures for the term provided by section 302. In no case, however, shall the term of copyright in such a work expire before December 31, 2002; and, if the work is published on or before December 31, 2002, the term of copyright shall not expire before December 31, 2047. § 304. Duration of copyright: Subsisting copyrights6 (a) Copyrights in Their First Term on January 1, 1978.- (1)(A) Any copyright, in the first term of which is subsisting on January 1, 1978, shall endure for 28 years from the date it was originally secured. (2)(A) At the expiration of the original term of copyright in a work specified in paragraph (1)(B) of this subsection, the copyright shall endure for a renewed and extended further term of 67 years, which- 3)(A) An application to register a claim to the renewed and extended term of copyright in a work may be made to the Copyright Office- (i) within 1 year before the expiration of the original term of copyright by any person entitled under paragraph (1)(B) or (C) to such further term of 67 years; and (ii) at any time during the renewed and extended term by any person in whom such further term vested, under paragraph (2)(A) or (B), or by any successor or assign of such person, if the application is made in the name of such person. (B) Such an application is not a condition of the renewal and extension of the copyright in a work for a further term of 67 years. Applying this to Rails Northeast, the the copyright is 28 years from publication plus 67 more years. Obviously the effect of all of the above is that the work never comes into the public domain while it is germaine. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: Re: [PRR] Rails Northeast article Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:58:10 -0400 Well, since it does not look like we are all going to get to read it I'm still going to torture myself and ask about details of the article. What is it about, time period, etc. Obviously it's about someone on second trick at thorn, other details I mean. If it sounds good I'll have to watch for a copy of the mag. Tom von Trott ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 8:56 AM Subject: [PRR] Rails Northeast article > My absolute all time favorite PRR train article is "Second Trick at Thorn" in the 11/83 Rails Northeast. I must read this at least once a year. Since it is now over 17 years old so the copywrite has probably run out and the publisher is dead would it be possible to post this on Keystone Crossings for others enjoyment? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rorie317@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 21:54:34 EDT Subject: [PRR] Rails Northeast Article So, whatever happened to Rick Erben, the author of Second Trick at Thorn? If memory serves he also wrote an article about being a block operator in the Philly Terminal area. It would be great to hear some of his stories! Don Surowitch ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Happy Anniversary! Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:05:00 -0400 Congratulations and Thanks, Jerry! Words can't describe the service you have done for subscribers and lurkers to the "List" Carl P. Izzo PRRT&HS #832 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 22:24:44 -0400 From: davep Subject: [PRR] PRR film clip, most misplaced I ferget which list had the recent thread on PRR clips, 'guest' film appearances. DSC channel, cable, 'Third Reich and the Occult' (just run), about 6 minutes before the end, with little relation to the narration, has some shoots of rail rushing by, then: an overhead shot, three loks, at speed: One GG1 One Streamlined PRR Steamer (I can't ID) and another which I can't ID either... Clearly a PR shot, from an airplane, mid '30s. NOTHING to do with the program content. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CRIPNUT@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:32:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] HO Brass I'm fairly new to modeling the Pennsy and am looking to purchase some HO brass steam engines. I know there have been a plethora of units done over the years and was hoping I could get some input on what to get, and what to avoid. I'm not willing to waste the kind of dollars needed to buy recent offerings, so bear in mind that $500.00 is tops for any loco. I'm looking to stable some L-1's and I-1's for a future Elmira Branch layout set in late 1955. I want good, reliable, accurate models, and am willing to improve where needed if it doesn't require a machine shop! I'm looking at PFM and Sunset as they are the only thing I can find under $500.00. What are the pitfalls and pleasures of each? What am I missing? What about Bowser? I'd hate to move to 1958 and run just diesels, Pennsy steam is why I'm doing this. Help! Brian Shumaker "In granger territory" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 01:00:13 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Brass In a message dated 10/3/01 9:40:40 PM Central Daylight Time, CRIPNUT@aol.com writes: << 'm looking at PFM and Sunset as they are the only thing I can find under $500.00. What are the pitfalls and pleasures of each? What am I missing? What about Bowser? >> I have a Bowser 2-10-0 with a Cary boiler and a helix humper to go in it (need to mill out the Cary boiler to fit). I put it on the back burner to buy an old United I1 for $200, add a NWSL high torque, low-speed can motor, a decoder, grit blast the tarnish off and paint. For about $270, I have a DCC-equipped good-looking loco which is a hauler and will crawl quietly at a few miles per hour if I desire. Depending on who built the Sunset, the United may be more rugged than the later brass for operations purposes. My old Gem J1 cost me $300 painted. I again added the NWSL motor, MVP lighted lenses and a decoder and weathering. It will pull about 36 NMRA-weighted hoppers up a curving 1.5% grade Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 23:49:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Brass Brian, list, I can't comment on the brass (my only brass engines are a Lambert H6sb and an Alco E5s), but I can comment on the Bowser I1sa. I built mine piece by piece using an old Bowser I1sa (small boiler) and the new Bowser boiler and cylinders. I bought the superdetail kit piece by piece (graduate school was a bit on the pricey side). I bought the (then) Alco Products repower kit and added it to the existing chassis. The engine runs superbly with the dual flywheels; I'm glad I didn't have to regear the engine to get flywheels. Don Harper has posted at length (check the archives) about correctly detailing the Bowser I1sa; he's done very exhaustive research on the surviving I1sa 4483 and on other I1sa engines as well. I only wanted one I1sa. I think the current Bowser kit makes a very nice model with the (now) Alliance Locomotive repower kit. I've assembled about 10 Bowser steamers and several MDC steamers over the years; I like building kits and the fine tuning that is part and parcel of the building experience. Most recent (and some older) brass seems to run well right out of the box. Whether you pick brass or Bowser, model from photographs of the real thing; details on both kit steam and brass may need to be changed to reflect your prototype in 1955. One word of warning: the February 2000 MR article on modeling I1sa engines has a number of inaccuracies, particularly in the twin air pump version and in the short tender. Doug --- CRIPNUT@aol.com wrote: > I'm fairly new to modeling the Pennsy and am > looking to purchase some HO > brass steam engines. I know there have been a > plethora of units done over > the years and was hoping I could get some input on > what to get, and what to > avoid. I'm not willing to waste the kind of dollars > needed to buy recent > offerings, so bear in mind that $500.00 is tops for > any loco. I'm looking to > stable some L-1's and I-1's for a future Elmira > Branch layout set in late > 1955. I want good, reliable, accurate models, and > am willing to improve > where needed if it doesn't require a machine shop! > I'm looking at PFM and > Sunset as they are the only thing I can find under > $500.00. What are the > pitfalls and pleasures of each? What am I missing? > What about Bowser? > I'd hate to move to 1958 and run just diesels, > Pennsy steam is why I'm > doing this. Help! > > Brian Shumaker > "In granger territory" > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 09:03:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Experienced N Scale Modeler(s) Needed From: Jerry Britton "Merchandise Service" is in need of N scale models for display at shows. Unfortunately, we never seem to develop the time to assemble, paint, and letter display units. If anyone on the list considers themselves an advanced N scale modeler (for quality, not because of complexity) and has some time on their hands, I would be interested in exchanging product for your work in assembling our samples. Photos of the units would also appear on our web site, with credit to the builder. Kits that we need built include: East Wind: PLC70, P70KR, P70GSR Des Plaines Hobbies: P85BR Brass Car Sides: 10-6, 4-4-2, P85BR, 10-5, 13BR Laser Horizons: Twin Diner, 4-4-2, 10-6, 12-4, 6L, 3-1-L, etc. We would supply all materials. If you have a track record, interest, and time, please contact me off-list. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CRIPNUT@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:23:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] HO Brass Thank you all for the responses to my query. The concensus seems to be go with PFM for good, solid runners, which is what I suspected. Bowser seems to be the least attractive option. I'll bet the final bill for a remotered, fully detailed L-1 is equal to, if not more, than a PFM. As to Lambert, how is their H-6sb? I'm thinking of modeling the Marion branch as a cheaper and smaller version of Pennsy rather than the entire Elmira Branch. Is a Railworks worth the extra dollars? Gee, did I mention cabins? Which is the best for the dollar. I've had a Sunset N5c which looked nice, but I had to add underbody detail. But they are cheap! Thanks again, Brian Shumaker ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Brass Brian, For years the Lambert H6sb was the only one available. Then came Sunset and then the Railworks version. Here I believe is where the saying "you get what you pay for" does not apply. I have had the Lamberts in my hands at differnt times. This one still stacks up against the high priced Railwork release. Personally I have the Sunset H6sb which I purchased when it was first released for about 220. I like it a lot. Smooth and quiet just like the Lambert but for a 150+ bucks less and close to 300+ bucks less than the Railworks. You should be happy with either of the 3 versions. It is just the idea of what you want to spend. For cabin cars, Precission Scale cabins hard to beat but can be pricey as well.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 10:34:54 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Thursday Update Hoss's Dinner Reservations Greetings to the group, The dinner reservation list now stands as follows: Dennis Sautters Mark Lehman Drew McGhee Mark Lehman (2) Sam Vastano indicated that he would probably not be able to make the dinner. Sam - If your schedule permits, please join us at 6:30. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: [PRR] Removing paint Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:02:32 -0400 Hi Gang, Need some advise. I am in the process of modeling a PRSL Baldwin AS16 (BS16ms) in 'O'Scale, using a Williams AS616 plastic shell. How do I safely remove the existing paint (red & white, lettered Soo) without damaging the plastic. I have always used automotive brake fluid with great success, but this paint isn't the least bit affected. Anyone have any suggestions?? Thanks Buzz PRRT&HS #271 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Removing paint Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:44:14 -0400 Buzz:- Two thoughts, but try them on a small piece first. 1. Spray the piece with Easy-Off oven cleaner, place in a sealable plastic bag (i.e. a "baggie") and leave overnight. 2. Get some Floquil ELO (Easy Lift-Off) and follow directions. Both have worked better than brake fluid for me. Also, have heard horror stories about making plastic brittle using brake fluid. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burnley, Charles" To: Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:02 PM Subject: [PRR] Removing paint > Hi Gang, > > Need some advise. > I am in the process of modeling a PRSL Baldwin AS16 (BS16ms) > in 'O'Scale, using a Williams AS616 plastic shell. > How do I safely remove the existing paint (red & white, lettered Soo) > without damaging the plastic. > I have always used automotive brake fluid with great success, but this > paint isn't the least bit affected. > Anyone have any suggestions?? > Thanks > > Buzz > PRRT&HS #271 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tom Mahon Subject: RE: [PRR] Removing paint Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:59:57 -0400 I have used Easy-Lift-Off with success. You need a well ventilated area and rubber gloved that are rated to protect you from a solvent (Home Depot or Loew's, etc., usually a hideous orange color.) Tom Mahon -----Original Message----- From: Burnley, Charles [mailto:Charles.Burnley@conectiv.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:03 PM To: 'prr-talk@dsop.com' Subject: [PRR] Removing paint Hi Gang, Need some advise. I am in the process of modeling a PRSL Baldwin AS16 (BS16ms) in 'O'Scale, using a Williams AS616 plastic shell. How do I safely remove the existing paint (red & white, lettered Soo) without damaging the plastic. I have always used automotive brake fluid with great success, but this paint isn't the least bit affected. Anyone have any suggestions?? Thanks Buzz PRRT&HS #271 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:40:05 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RailFest Forecast From: Jerry Britton Unfortunately, looks like the weather will not be cooperating with us for RailFest this year. Weather Channel web site forecasts the following: Saturday - Rain, high of 61 Sunday - Scattered showers, high of 50 Accu-Weather has a slightly better outlook on conditions, but lower estimates for temps. Real shame, given Bennett's restored E-8's are pulling the excursions. Really hoped to get a few good shots of Tuscan Red comin' round the Curve! I plan to go either way (Sunday). I already have tickets, including for the 1:25 excursion. My son (Andrew, all but 4) will be along and will be happy with the ride and the museum. P.S. I'll be photographing the E-8's as they cross the Rockville Bridge around 7:15 a.m. on Saturday morning. They'll be on Amtrak's "Capitol West". Train is scheduled to leave Harrisburg Station at 6:45, with a stop at the fuel pad. It took the recent "Northern Express" about 1/2 hour to reach the site of the former ROCKVILLE tower with its fuel stop. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:46:37 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest Forecast FWIW: The unofficial/unconfirmed departure time is now 7:45 w a stop for fuel. Bennett Jerry Britton wrote: > > Unfortunately, looks like the weather will not be cooperating with us for > RailFest this year. Weather Channel web site forecasts the following: > > Saturday - Rain, high of 61 > Sunday - Scattered showers, high of 50 > > Accu-Weather has a slightly better outlook on conditions, but lower > estimates for temps. > > Real shame, given Bennett's restored E-8's are pulling the excursions. > Really hoped to get a few good shots of Tuscan Red comin' round the Curve! > > I plan to go either way (Sunday). I already have tickets, including for the > 1:25 excursion. My son (Andrew, all but 4) will be along and will be happy > with the ride and the museum. > > P.S. I'll be photographing the E-8's as they cross the Rockville Bridge > around 7:15 a.m. on Saturday morning. They'll be on Amtrak's "Capitol West". > Train is scheduled to leave Harrisburg Station at 6:45, with a stop at the > fuel pad. It took the recent "Northern Express" about 1/2 hour to reach the > site of the former ROCKVILLE tower with its fuel stop. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:44:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest Forecast From: Jerry Britton On 10/4/01 4:46 PM, Bennett Levin at (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > The unofficial/unconfirmed departure time is now 7:45 w a stop for fuel. > Thanks for the update...may be too late with my plans for Saturday. If it does work out, certainly will provide more light. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Rain for Railfest? Well, no matter what the weather, I'm still going to have a good time. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Thursday Update Hoss's Dinner Reservations Hello Mr. McGhee, I will try to make to Hoss's on Saturday night. Myself and some friends from Philly and New York City will going to various rail hangouts but we'll try to make it. Maybe two or three of us. Regards, Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Champ T-1 decals Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:49:12 -0700 Hi list... The other night I was at the hobby shop and was going through the last Champ catalogue when I noticed that they were offerning a special T-1 decal set. Has anybody seen or Champ wants for it? Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:57:11 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Rain for Railfest? Now that's the spirit!!!!!! Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art wrote: > > Well, no matter what the weather, I'm still going to have a good > time. > Dave > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Rain for Railfest? Guys, For those going to Altoona, just hope it dosn't turn into Rainfest.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] Champ T-1 decals Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:25:12 -0400 The T-1 sets will be done on a custom basis only on an ALPS printer; no sets will be made for stock. The later T-1 set is the one mentioned in the catalog for $15.00 in HO. Mr. Meyer also has the artwork for the original lettering scheme used on #6110 and 6111 with the large herald in circle on tender. He wants $22.00 for that set in HO. No need to price shop; there is no dealer discount for these two sets. Frank Brua -----Original Message----- From: billd@gci-net.com To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, October 04, 2001 6:58 PM Subject: [PRR] Champ T-1 decals >Hi list... >The other night I was at the hobby shop and was going >through the last Champ catalogue when I noticed that they >were offerning a special T-1 decal set. Has anybody seen or >Champ wants for it? > >Bill Daniels >Tucson, AZ > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Rain for Railfest? If it starts to rain at Horseshoe, close your eyes and pretend it's just cinders from two J1s with a mile of forty ft. boxcars headed west with a set of F3s pushing on the cabin car. Or for the pure steam fan, two I1s shoving hard on the cabin car. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:30:41 -0400 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's A couple of weeks ago, one of you PRR guys had a collection of photographs of the 5806 and the 5711 on a website. Could someone please send me that address? THANX ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 22:04:39 -0400 From: "H.&S." Subject: [PRR] Penn station Baltimore help! Hello all... Recently i received one of CMR's (Custom Model Railroads) large station kits. While this kit is'nt a exact match to Baltimore's Penn station,it is based on the station. (The owner of CMR told me about this last year and for those who have the kit you can tell what its based on.) I've been going thru the kit to see what small changes i'll have to make to have it come out even closer to the real station. Now here is where i need a little help. The east or north end (St. Paul st. side) of the station is fine the way it is. And except for the street level floor windows ,the front and back is fine as it is. (ok...i need to add the clock and columes on the front). Anyway....I have the spring issue, 1995 issue of the Keystone with Frank Wrables article on the station and the PRR in Baltimore. While the article (and some modern day pics and video i also have) is my best source for information on the station and has lots of pictures of it, i need to find out about a minor change to the west or southern end of the station (Charles st. side). One picture in the article shows that side in 1923 with an entrance door (not the concourse doors) near the concourse and to the left. Then later a 1978 picture shows the door moved to center of the wall with double pane windows to the left and right of it as it is today. Its been that way as long as i can remember, and i was born in 1957. During the early 1970's my dad sometimes worked as station master there and it was that way then too. I'm modeling Baltimore between 1946 and 1954. Do any of you guys have a idea when this change was made ? Anyone out there have a picture of this end of the station in the years that i'm modeling ? I have a 1958 floor plan but am not sure how accurate it is. I need to find out before i start putting this end of the station together. As always....i can use all the help i can get. Perhaps when i get it done....or as i go along i'll post pics of it. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 21:59:30 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Crestline Roundhouse: Good News From: "William J. Ayers" List, I've made several posts to the List about the Crestline PRR roundhouse, mostly about disappointing results of several efforts to have it listed as an historical place. This time I have some good news to pass along. Ron Widman has been keeping me up to date as to it's fate and this time it is encouraging. The owner and one of his employees are in the process of cleaning it up, removing years of trash, debris, graffiti, and decay. One of the owner's employees has moved onto the property into temporary living quarters to act as a watchman as well as one of the main workers for the clean up. He has plans to turn the former powerhouse into a restaurant and railroad museum and eventually to live there permanently. The owner also has plans to use the former machine shop area as a storage facility for his construction equipment. Both men are keenly aware of the importance of this former PRR facility not only as a piece local history, but also the importance of it on the PRR. They want to keep this alive. As a part of the clean-up efforts, they have moved a small herd of goats onto the property and, according to the owner, if they are not fed, "they will eat nails." They will be steam cleaning, replacing windows, repairing woodwork, grooming and landscaping the grounds, etc. The City of Crestline is excited about the work being done there. Also, Crestline has received a grant to study the feasibility of using the land that the yards once occupied for an industrial park. Anyone who is familiar with Crestline's former political attitude will recognise this as a major step forward. If all of this comes together as it is envisioned, it will breathe new life into the roundhouse, keep it's history alive, and help the economy of Crestline. And if all goes well, perhaps the Crestline Roundhouse could be an exciting side trip to the PRRT&HS annual meeting at Cinncinati! Remember, this is the only extant USRA roundhouse (designed by PRR engineers) in the US, and was the home for the S1, S2, T1s and Q2s. As I receive further updates, I will pass it along. Bill Ayers ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 05:45:41 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's Richard Poole wrote: > > A couple of weeks ago, one of you PRR guys had a collection of photographs of the 5806 and the 5711 on a website. Could someone please send me that address? THANX > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Rich, The restoration of #5809 and #5711 at the PRRT&HS website. Go to . I always feel obliged to state that my buddy Steve Agostini, the PRRT&HS webmaster, spent literally thousands of hours on this photo essay to ensure an accurate history. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 06:19:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's From: Jerry Britton On 10/5/01 1:45 AM, prrbill at (prrbill@Op.Net) wrote: > Richard Poole wrote: >> >> A couple of weeks ago, one of you PRR guys had a collection of photographs of >> the 5806 and the 5711 on a website. Could someone please send me that >> address? THANX >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > Rich, > > The restoration of #5809 and #5711 at the PRRT&HS website. Go to > . I always feel > obliged to state that my buddy Steve Agostini, the PRRT&HS webmaster, > spent literally thousands of hours on this photo essay to ensure an > accurate history. "thousands of hours"? Let's see, just one thousand hours at 40 hours a week (a full-time job), that would take 25 weeks. Wow, that's dedication!!! There are also pics from the Northern Express excursion at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/northernexpress2001/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 06:29:49 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 10/5/01 1:45 AM, prrbill at (prrbill@Op.Net) wrote: > > > Richard Poole wrote: > >> > >> A couple of weeks ago, one of you PRR guys had a collection of photographs of > >> the 5806 and the 5711 on a website. Could someone please send me that > >> address? THANX > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > Rich, > > > > The restoration of #5809 and #5711 at the PRRT&HS website. Go to > > . I always feel > > obliged to state that my buddy Steve Agostini, the PRRT&HS webmaster, > > spent literally thousands of hours on this photo essay to ensure an > > accurate history. > > "thousands of hours"? Let's see, just one thousand hours at 40 hours a week > (a full-time job), that would take 25 weeks. Wow, that's dedication!!! Jerry, You're correct. Between the time spent at Juniata Terminal (one year), travelling sometimes 7 days a week and the time in front of the computer to make up the layout, upload and then 'tweak' the photos to make the best possible, it was dedication. As a webmaster, I'm sure you spend thousands of hours to make sure your site is as good as it gets. So why the sarcasm? Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 07:05:54 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's Check this out. I also think there are some good photos on Jerry Brittons site and on a NS Buffalo Line Site. http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?f=2&i=40417&t=40417 Bennett prrbill wrote: > > Richard Poole wrote: > > > > A couple of weeks ago, one of you PRR guys had a collection of photographs of the 5806 and the 5711 on a website. Could someone please send me that address? THANX > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > Rich, > > The restoration of #5809 and #5711 at the PRRT&HS website. Go to > . I always feel > obliged to state that my buddy Steve Agostini, the PRRT&HS webmaster, > spent literally thousands of hours on this photo essay to ensure an > accurate history. > > Bill Morlitz > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:23:40 EDT Subject: [PRR] USRA structures In a message dated 10/5/01 1:12:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Remember, this is the only extant USRA roundhouse (designed by PRR engineers) in the US, and was the home for the S1, S2, T1s and Q2s. >> Can anyone add info on USRA roundhouses? I've heard before that Crestline was a USRA design - it's mentioned in the Q2 book. But I've no idea how many, where, etc. Were there USRA designs for other structures? Thanks, Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 09:34:48 -0700 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's Hi Bill, All, Bill, you may be hasty in labeling Jerry's comment as sarcasm. I don't know Jerry's intent but reading his post one could take it at face value and conclude that he is indeed impressed at the dedication shown in the prep of the photo-essay. As a webmaster I am fairly sure that Jerry has a very good idea of the commitment involved. I'm not primarily defending Jerry or stating his intent. He is capable of doing that himself. I am just trying to show an alternate way of perceiving his post. Thanks, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 12:49:40 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Friday Update (Final) Hoss's Dinner Reservations Greetings to the group, The dinner reservation list now stands as follows: Dennis Sautters Mark Lehman Drew McGhee Mark Lehman (2) Sam Vastano (3) Greg Stone (?) Dave Hopson (3?) The question marks (?) indicates that those individuals and their guests are going to try to make the dinner. I'm looking forward for a very enjoyable evening with you all. I'll meet you at Altoona Hoss's (Valley View Blvd. at 7th Street) at 6:30. Remember to say hello when passing through the Juniata Shops in the morning. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 12:59:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Friday Update (Final) Hoss's Dinner Reservations From: Jerry Britton On 10/5/01 12:49 PM, Drew McGhee (drm6@psu.edu) wrote: > The question marks (?) indicates that those individuals and their guests > are going to try to make the dinner. I'm looking forward for a very > enjoyable evening with you all. I'll meet you at Altoona Hoss's (Valley > View Blvd. at 7th Street) at 6:30. Remember to say hello when passing > through the Juniata Shops in the morning. > Thank you, Drew, for hosting this once again. Sorry I can't make it. ALERT to those attending, there are TWO Hoss's in Altoona, which is why Drew is taking the time to indicate "Valley View Blvd.". Please make sure you are headed to the correct one! Enjoy! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:09:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Friday Update (Final) Hoss's Dinner Reservations On Fri, 5 Oct 2001, Jerry Britton wrote: > On 10/5/01 12:49 PM, Drew McGhee (drm6@psu.edu) wrote: > > > The question marks (?) indicates that those individuals and their guests > > are going to try to make the dinner. I'm looking forward for a very > > enjoyable evening with you all. I'll meet you at Altoona Hoss's (Valley > > View Blvd. at 7th Street) at 6:30. Remember to say hello when passing > > through the Juniata Shops in the morning. > > > Thank you, Drew, for hosting this once again. Sorry I can't make it. > > ALERT to those attending, there are TWO Hoss's in Altoona, which is why Drew > is taking the time to indicate "Valley View Blvd.". Please make sure you are > headed to the correct one! Well, sorta. There are two in the area. Only one is technically in Altoona, but yes, be careful you're going to the right place. -D -who has a family thing to do instead :-/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: nuts4prr@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 20:02:20 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] MP54 Boxes Guys, Back in April I sold some brass MP54's to someone when I was still living in Australia. I have since found the boxes and wish to forward them. Unfortunately I have forgotten who this was. If the missing person is in one of these groups would he please contact me offlist. Graeme Nitz An Aussie SPF Now Living in Tulsa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:57:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures From: "William J. Ayers" Rick, et al, I have a newspaper article from the Crestline Advocate of Feb. 7, 1990 that states that The Austin Company of Cleveland, OH built nine USRA roundhouses in Ohio during WWI for the Pennsylvania Lines, the only two I know the location of are Crestline and Stark, Ohio (Canton). The one in Canton is said to have been identical to Crestline's. The design that PRR engineers came up with was adopted by the USRA. I don't know what year the USRA adopted the plans, but the Crestline roundhouse was built 1918-20. I don't know if there were other types of structures designated USRA design. The focus of my research is Crestline, so I don't have much info on other locations. I know this isn't much, but I hope it helps. Bill Ayers > Can anyone add info on USRA roundhouses? I've heard before that Crestline > was a USRA design - it's mentioned in the Q2 book. But I've no idea how > many, where, etc. Were there USRA designs for other structures? > > Thanks, > > Rick Tipton > Louisville KY > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 21:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures Rick, Supposedly the roundhouse at Mingo Jct. was a USRA type. Also wasn't Northumberland too?....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:44:47 +0000 Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's From: Bill on 10/5/01 4:34 PM, Ron Dugas at rond@efn.org wrote: > Hi Bill, All, > > Bill, you may be hasty in labeling Jerry's comment as sarcasm. I don't > know Jerry's intent but reading his post one could take it at face value > and conclude that he is indeed impressed at the dedication shown in the > prep of the photo-essay. As a webmaster I am fairly sure that Jerry has > a very good idea of the commitment involved. I'm not primarily defending > Jerry or stating his intent. He is capable of doing that himself. I am > just trying to show an alternate way of perceiving his post. > > Thanks, > > Ron. Ron, Thanks. I was wondering during the day if I had misinterpreted what Jerry had said. SO: Jerry, if I misunderstood your intent, I apologize. Still much too easy to put my foot in my mouth, especially over the Internet. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 14:34:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures Guys, >From my understanding the Roundhouses at Mingo Junction, Crestline, Canton, and I believe Conway and Wellsville, OH were all USRA designs. My brother has the list somewhere as he ran them down for me not to long ago as an idea for a future article he might work on. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 14:33:41 -0400 Greg and List, I've been following the discussion about "USRA" roundhouses with considerable interest. Is there any documented evidence that they were actually USRA designs? For example, any documents issued by USRA? Did any other railroad build them? Some years ago, after we rescued the drawings from the Pittsburgh Station, I found the drawings for these roundhouses in that collection. There was no reference on the drawings to USRA. The title block said "PRR Co. Western Lines, Type A Engine House, Office of Chief Engineer - Const., No. 18477". Dates for the various sheets ranged from June 15, 1918 to September 20, 1918. This was during the period of USRA control, and PLW would have had to get USRA approval to build anything. But, that doesn't make them USRA designs. I have assumed they were a Lines West standard design. The drawings show the following locations and number of stalls: Stark E.H., Canton - 30 Crestline E.H. - 30 Mosier E.H. - 21 [Where was this?] Mingo Jct. E.H. - 15 Jeffersonville E.H. - 15 Scully E.H. - 34 The design was such that 52 stalls would have made a full circle. There's no guarantee that all of these were actually built. Some notes from another source show that in 1919 work was stopped on Mosier, Mingo Jct., and Jeffersonville. It is also possible that other locations on PLW received this style of roundhouse. It was often the practice to issue separate sets of drawings for different locations, even when using a common design, instead of trying to note every design change and option on the same set of drawings. For example, there was a different set of drawings for Wellsville - a very similar design with 9 stalls, but built much closer to the turntable and with a stall angle that would have resulted in just 32 stalls for a full circle. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures | Guys, | | From my understanding the Roundhouses at Mingo Junction, Crestline, Canton, | and I believe Conway and Wellsville, OH were all USRA designs. My brother | has the list somewhere as he ran them down for me not to long ago as an idea | for a future article he might work on. | | Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] (PRR)Correct Font for Number Boards Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 18:20:37 -0400 Group, What is the correct font for the numbers on Number boards on PRR Steam Locos? I have and idea on how to make them. If it works I will let the group know of my results. Thanks in advance. Sam Vastano So many hobbies so little time! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 20:24:05 -0500 From: Greg Johnson Subject: [PRR] Newark Station question There is an abandoned railway overpass just west of the Newark station. What line was this and when was it taken out of service? Did it use Newark station? Thanks, Greg Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] USRA structures - Chicago? Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:42:23 -0500 Greg, Bob, and List; Can the Chicago 59th St. Roundhouse be added to this list of standard design? Pictures of this enginehouse have been very difficult to come by (at least for me). If you have the NJ International book Pennsy Q Class, compare the photos in P24 and P36. P24 shows Crestline, and P36 shows the roofline of Chicago. I realize this is not much evidence, but they look very similar. On a related note, does anybody have any basic information on the 59th St. Roundhouse? I'm looking for things like # of stalls, turntable length, etc. If anybody has photos for sale, I'd be interested as well. Thanks, Andy -----Original Message----- Bob listed some enginehouses sharing a standard design: The drawings show the following locations and number of stalls: Stark E.H., Canton - 30 Crestline E.H. - 30 Mosier E.H. - 21 [Where was this?] Mingo Jct. E.H. - 15 Jeffersonville E.H. - 15 Scully E.H. - 34 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rorie317@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 22:43:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] newark penn station overpass If memory serves this was the CNJ Newark branch ending at a station west of Broad St and south of Market St. Don Surowitch ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 22:51:14 -0400 From: Chris Brandt Subject: Re: [PRR] Newark Station question Isn't that an old CNJ line into Jersey City? Greg Johnson wrote: > > There is an abandoned railway overpass just west of the Newark station. What > line was this and when was it taken out of service? Did it use Newark > station? > -- Chris Brandt cobrandt@eclipse.net http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:44:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Newark Station question The "Aldene Plan" to consolidate CNJ passenger service into Newark Penn Station went into effect on Sunday, April 30, 1967. At this time CNJ trains from the North Jersey Coast began to operate to Newark Penn Station rather than to CNJ's Jersey City terminal; CNJ mainline trains were rerouted east of Cranford onto the Lehigh Valley at Aldene, then into Newark Penn Station through Hunter interlocking. CNJ service to Newark and the one or two rush hour trains that detoured into Kearney over the CNJ's Passaic River bridge were discontinued, and the CNJ Jersey City terminal and ferries to Liberty Street were abandoned too. A shuttle train continued to operate as far as 33 St, Bayonne, from Cranford (and maybe further west at times) for years. Another thing that happened at the same time, I believe, was that the PATH fare was standardized at one rate of 30 cents everywhere on the system; up to that point, the old PRR-established ticket system was in effect, with the fare being everywhere 30 cents except to Harrison and Newark, where you needed a ticket which cost 40 cents. So fares to Newark actually decreased with the new scheme. You can still see where the PATH ticket window was at Newark, under track 1 roughly at the south end of the eastern cross-passage (and nowheres near the regular ticket windows, where the CNJ had then to establish its own ticket windows, at the west end of the window block, I recall). Another anomaly caused by the Aldene Plan was the rerouting of the two Reading Company trains to Philadelphia from Jersey City to Newark Penn Station; you thus had the interesting situation of the Reading's Wall Street or Crusader trains (actually RDCs at that point) leaving across the platform from a PRR Clocker! It was fun to make a circle trip to Philly using RDG and PRR. And to go to the CNJ window at Newark Penn and ask for a ticket to Philadelphia, having to convince the agent that yes, you did want to use the Reading's service! Yes, the overhead bridge at the west end of the Newark Penn Station platforms was part of the CNJ line; I believe the viaduct is still in place as far as the abandoned CNJ station on Broad Street, which was still there too last I looked. It's not easy to spot if you are just driving down Broad Street, because all you see is the front, which looks more like a bank, but the CNJ inscriptions were still in place not long ago. The viaduct ends at Penn Station but once continued through the heart of the bustling Ironbound section of Newark; it's hard to believe it once existed there, but if you walk the streets around the houses and Portuguese restaurants you can guess from the gaps in the buildings where it once stood! On April 29-30, 1967, I rode some of the last trains out of Jersey City and Newark, and early the next morning was on the first train into Penn Station from Cranford; they ran a full weekday schedule on that Sunday to test it. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Day" Subject: [PRR] Round roof-no doors. Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:49:33 -0400 List, Talking to a fellow SPF here in the Panhandle Division yesterday and he was telling me that probably in the late 50's that there were round roof boxcars with no doors being sent from Weirton, WV across the bridge to Steubenville, OH. Upon inspection one day he saw that there were 2 steel coils in each end of the car. He thinks that they were travelling incognito from Weirton Steel to then Wheeling Steel to fill orders. He mentioned that there was a very heavy steel bar across the doorway held on by a couple of "S" clips and felt that they were only removeable by a forklift or something. Anybody have any info on this or photos? Guess this is one of the rarities that took place on the Panhandle Division. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:01:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RailFest 2001 Report From: Jerry Britton I attended RailFest 2001 in Altoona yesterday. BOY WAS IT COLD!!! Started the day at Cresson, 35 degrees, windy, 6:15 a.m. Rail traffic was very light. First train by was a load of auto racks with two units at head and none on the back. Went on over to Gallitzin. The Jackson Street Bridge is undergoing renovation. Looks like perhaps they are adding railfan support. Took a few pics of westbounds from the site of the westbound passenger station. Headed over to a site near the former eastbound passenger station. Extremely low traffic. Most eastbound freights were being routed over the traditionally westbound track two. We waited on caught the first excursion turning the loop and re-entering the main at AR. Headed back to Cresson for a few minutes. They had a street fair going on. Then headed to Horseshoe Curve. Again, still light traffic. Caught an eastbound truc-train. Then photo'd the second excursion going west. Beautiful! Then down to Altoona where we tailgated behind Station Mall. Took many more pics, then rode the 1:25 p.m. excursion. Having ridden it before, I didn't expect it to be a big deal. It was all for my son. However, when we rounded that first curve and I could see those Tuscan Red E-8's up front, I have to see my eyes welled up a bit. Boy!!! Then went to the museum so Andrew could push some of the many buttons that make things work. Of course I had to quiz him later about the position light signals!!! Then headed to the Juniata Shops...which should not have even been on the bill!!! NS basically slammed the door on the railfan community. We were told that due to the immense animosity against NS over the closing of Hollidaysburg that they thought it a security risk. Everyone is 90% sure NS will be closing Juniata within the year... another 1300 jobs. They had two NS and one CSX loco on display, the model room, their propeganda car, and business car #3. That was it!!! Back to Station Mall and watched the mains for another 45 minutes before heading out. I'll have about 40 pics online later today. I've already made the thumbnails and just need to enter them into the web database. Give me a few more hours! To Bennett Levin: Thank you for making the E-8's and #120 possible for RailFest. Not only from me (I told you that personally yesterday), but from the hundreds (thousands?) who don't know how to contact you. Many people asked me for your mailing address, which I couldn't supply, just so they could write and thank you. Some may find your address, but for those who can't, please know that there are MANY, MANY people who wish to extend their sincerest gratitude for bringing the PRR back alive, even if just for a few hours. THANK YOU BENNETT!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:46:57 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest 2001 Report I really want to thank all of those, who tanked me, for supporting Railfest. There is one thing that I really believe the Railfan Community should know about NS. In spite of the hard feeling in Altoona about the shops and the lack of a full shop tour this year, NS provided a much more significant opportunity for all of us in allowing the E-8s out on their railroad for two whole days. If you noticed they did not run "push-pull" as the MARC sets did in prior years. They ran as intended which required extra dispatching, tying up the main track between WORKS and ALTO whenever the run-around was made. Max Solomon stayed in Pittsburgh to monitor the Dispatchers at Greentree, he sent one of his most experienced people (whose name escapes me for the moment) to monitor operations at ALTO. Stan MacIntyre, the NS RFE at ALTO, went out of his was way to ensure that everything was in order including sending a helper to send the rail at Gallitzen prior to the first trip. NS could have just as easily "SAID NO". This is not a perfect world as we all are now realizing. NS and their people were perfect hospitable hosts for the special train that was really the highlight of the weekend for those who came out of their bunkers to see something that many believed they would have never seen again. We were an anomaly on their railroad and they took the risk and supported the museum and the event. Yes, there was a villain in all of this, but it was NOT NS! One day I'll write a book. I am glad all of you who saw the engines and the train enjoyed yourselves. That is what it is all about. I would also like you to acknowledge the efforts of my son Eric who really did all the hard work, and the Conrail Shared Assets people who got us out of Philadelphia on Friday night. Bennett Jerry Britton wrote: > > I attended RailFest 2001 in Altoona yesterday. BOY WAS IT COLD!!! > > Started the day at Cresson, 35 degrees, windy, 6:15 a.m. Rail traffic was > very light. First train by was a load of auto racks with two units at head > and none on the back. > > Went on over to Gallitzin. The Jackson Street Bridge is undergoing > renovation. Looks like perhaps they are adding railfan support. Took a few > pics of westbounds from the site of the westbound passenger station. > > Headed over to a site near the former eastbound passenger station. Extremely > low traffic. Most eastbound freights were being routed over the > traditionally westbound track two. > > We waited on caught the first excursion turning the loop and re-entering the > main at AR. > > Headed back to Cresson for a few minutes. They had a street fair going on. > Then headed to Horseshoe Curve. Again, still light traffic. Caught an > eastbound truc-train. Then photo'd the second excursion going west. > Beautiful! > > Then down to Altoona where we tailgated behind Station Mall. Took many more > pics, then rode the 1:25 p.m. excursion. Having ridden it before, I didn't > expect it to be a big deal. It was all for my son. However, when we rounded > that first curve and I could see those Tuscan Red E-8's up front, I have to > see my eyes welled up a bit. Boy!!! > > Then went to the museum so Andrew could push some of the many buttons that > make things work. Of course I had to quiz him later about the position light > signals!!! > > Then headed to the Juniata Shops...which should not have even been on the > bill!!! NS basically slammed the door on the railfan community. We were told > that due to the immense animosity against NS over the closing of > Hollidaysburg that they thought it a security risk. Everyone is 90% sure NS > will be closing Juniata within the year... another 1300 jobs. They had two > NS and one CSX loco on display, the model room, their propeganda car, and > business car #3. That was it!!! > > Back to Station Mall and watched the mains for another 45 minutes before > heading out. > > I'll have about 40 pics online later today. I've already made the thumbnails > and just need to enter them into the web database. Give me a few more hours! > > To Bennett Levin: Thank you for making the E-8's and #120 possible for > RailFest. Not only from me (I told you that personally yesterday), but from > the hundreds (thousands?) who don't know how to contact you. Many people > asked me for your mailing address, which I couldn't supply, just so they > could write and thank you. Some may find your address, but for those who > can't, please know that there are MANY, MANY people who wish to extend their > sincerest gratitude for bringing the PRR back alive, even if just for a few > hours. > > THANK YOU BENNETT!!! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 11:08:17 -0400 With the evidence that Bob Johnson has produced regarding the title block linking the "USRA" design roundhouses directly to the PRR perhaps the connection with the USRA was that they being the managers of the railroad just approved the installation as designed. This is not substantiated, just my speculation. I recall seeing similar government approvals during the WWII era when capital projects involving critical war materials required U.S. Government approval. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 15:58:08 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RailFest pics From: Jerry Britton I've posted my RailFest photos... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ Use the keyword "railfest". With my purchase of a digital camera, I decided to develop a database to maintain my new digital library. I just wrote the code today. If you find any problems or interface issues, please contact me off-list and let me know what browser, its version, and what version of operating system you are using. Thank you. Enjoy the pics! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR "O" Scale 2E-F2 Crown freight trucks Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:57:27 -0400 1. Anyone know anything about a PROTOCRAFT Company in San Francisco who was supposed to produce a PRR pre W.W.II 2E-F2 Crown freight truck. An undated notice said, "Coming Soon" . The brass truck was supposed to have been made from master patterns by S. M. Grabowski. They were to be available in both Proto:48 and Scale versions. BTW: I have three PRR tender doghouses done by Mr. Grabowski, but obtained from another source. 2. Can anyone provide a bio on Mr. G.??? All the best to you and yours Weldon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 17:00:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] USRA? roundhouse for Jeffersonville cancelled In a message dated 10/8/01 1:11:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures From: "Bob Johnson" Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 14:33:41 -0400 Greg and List, I've been following the discussion about "USRA" roundhouses with considerable interest. Is there any documented evidence that they were actually USRA designs? For example, any documents issued by USRA? Did any other railroad build them? Some years ago, after we rescued the drawings from the Pittsburgh Station, I found the drawings for these roundhouses in that collection. There was no reference on the drawings to USRA. The title block said "PRR Co. Western Lines, Type A Engine House, Office of Chief Engineer - Const., No. 18477". Dates for the various sheets ranged from June 15, 1918 to September 20, 1918. This was during the period of USRA control, and PLW would have had to get USRA approval to build anything. But, that doesn't make them USRA designs. I have assumed they were a Lines West standard design. The drawings show the following locations and number of stalls: Stark E.H., Canton - 30 Crestline E.H. - 30 Mosier E.H. - 21 [Where was this?] Mingo Jct. E.H. - 15 Jeffersonville E.H. - 15 Scully E.H. - 34 The design was such that 52 stalls would have made a full circle. There's no guarantee that all of these were actually built. Some notes from another source show that in 1919 work was stopped on Mosier, Mingo Jct., and Jeffersonville. It is also possible that other locations on PLW received this style of roundhouse. It was often the practice to issue separate sets of drawings for different locations, even when using a common design, instead of trying to note every design change and option on the same set of drawings. For example, there was a different set of drawings for Wellsville - a very similar design with 9 stalls, but built much closer to the turntable and with a stall angle that would have resulted in just 32 stalls for a full circle. Bob Johnson >> Bob, I'm very glad to have your input on this subject, as I'm almost completely snowed here. One bit of confirmation -- we've never uncovered anything locally about a new roundhouse at Jeff (Jeffersonville IN). We know that the PRR/PCC&StL/Jeffersonville Madison & Indianapolis had a small roundhouse and turntable in downtown Jeffersonville that survived into the twentieth century -- we can identify its site. We also know that the Louisville 14th Street roundhouse (more on it in the next Keystone) appears on Sanborn maps of the 1905 era and lost the south 4 to 5 of its original 12 stalls by a 1941 Sanborn. A new roundhouse across the river, collocated with the "new" Jeffersonville Yards northwest of downtown Jeff, would have been advantageous. 14th Street was about 1.5 miles south of the freightyards, across the mile-long Ohio River Bridge, and in the middle of a double track rail corridor so congested (200 moves a day) that it was CTC'd in 1941. Also, 14th Street had a turntable too short to turn J1's and T1's, which had to seek a wye back north of the Bridge. Apparently, what happened instead is that 14th Street remained the engine terminal, through the end of steam (locally in 1953), and was still standing in 1961, when it probably had already been replaced by the two-stall metal engine house alongside Jeffersonville Yard. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 17:24:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR] RE: (PRR) Correct Font for Number Boards From: John Sheets Sam I have a copy of PRR plan 60146, PRR Standard Letter and Figures for Signs and Notices, although for building and signs thereof, might be a good start. Let me know snail mail address and I will send copy. John > Subject: (PRR)Correct Font for Number Boards > From: "Sam Vastano" > Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 18:20:37 -0400 > > Group, > > What is the correct font for the numbers on Number boards on PRR Steam > Locos? I have and idea on how to make them. If it works I will let the > group know of my results. > > Thanks in advance. > > > Sam Vastano > So many hobbies so little time! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Great Time at Railfest 2001 Hello List, Well I got back today from the Railfest and I had a real good time. It was nice meeting all of you at Hoss's on saturday nite. We didn't think we whould make it. After chasing the Es all day from Alto to AR,we were beat! I rode the private car on Sunday morning and it was on the tail end of the train. It was a great ride. I shot about five rolls of film from the back of the train. I don't know what to say about those E8s. I just had to stand there for a minute or two and just look at them. Mr. Levin did a great job on them and did an even better job by sharing them with the rest of the world. Bennett, If you are out there, you must someday tell that story you told me at the Station Mall about that "Villan" who almost stopped the Railfest dead in it's tracks. ..........................and the villan is not Norfork Southern!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:37:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] H22 photos Hi All, I was about to place an order for some H-22 Builders photos with the Hagley Museum when I was very surprised to see none were listed in the published "Altoona Collection" listing from the Pennsy Journal. I have searched all of the usual PRR books. Even John Teichmoeller's awesome hopper book does not have what I was hoping to find. I have 2 cars painted and waiting for decals. They have the "saw tooth" hoppers and the extended sides have been completely filled in with steel. That point is not as important as the hopper doors. I am looking for as late of a photo as possible and preferably PRR Builders photos. I doubt that any were painted Shadow Keystone, so Circle Keystone will do fine. I have asked the lists before with out any success. So here is my enhanced offer: A 3 for one photo exchange for any CLEAR side, 3/4, or end photo of an H-22 as described above so I can decal my cars. You can pick from my PRR Builders Photo collection here: http://users.snip.net/~billlane/PRRphotos.xls You have to have Excel to open it. I will email you the photos we are trading. Please reply to billlane@snip.net Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] H22 photos Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:37:16 -0400 Hi All, I was about to place an order for some H-22 Builders photos with the Hagley Museum when I was very surprised to see none were listed in the published "Altoona Collection" listing from the Pennsy Journal. I have searched all of the usual PRR books. Even John Teichmoeller's awesome hopper book does not have what I was hoping to find. I have 2 cars painted and waiting for decals. They have the "saw tooth" hoppers and the extended sides have been completely filled in with steel. That point is not as important as the hopper doors. I am looking for as late of a photo as possible and preferably PRR Builders photos. I doubt that any were painted Shadow Keystone, so Circle Keystone will do fine. I have asked the lists before with out any success. So here is my enhanced offer: A 3 for one photo exchange for any CLEAR side, 3/4, or end photo of an H-22 as described above so I can decal my cars. You can pick from my PRR Builders Photo collection here: http://users.snip.net/~billlane/PRRphotos.xls You have to have Excel to open it. I will email you the photos we are trading. Please reply to billlane@snip.net Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:08:25 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Thank You Bennett, Thank You Thank You Bennett, While I know is has been said before, thank you for the awesome rolling tribute to the Mighty Pennsy this past weekend. Kodak and Fuji should be thanking you too. We rode on the Saturday afternoon train. It gave me a sense of being on the PRR like I have never had before. How can you not be having the absolute time of your life right now knowing you are the only person in the world who can do this? I often say that "NOBODY plays Pennsy like Bennett can!!!!" I attended last years Railfest. I thought there were a lot more people there this year. Is there anyone in an official capacity on the list to confirm attendance figures? Thanks for telling the NS side of the story to us. I never would have thought of that. Well, there is a 10 thank you limit per email for which I far exceeded. Thank you (again), Bill Lane ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Thank You Bennett, Thank You Thank You Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:08:25 -0400 Bennett, While I know is has been said before, thank you for the awesome rolling tribute to the Mighty Pennsy this past weekend. Kodak and Fuji should be thanking you too. We rode on the Saturday afternoon train. It gave me a sense of being on the PRR like I have never had before. How can you not be having the absolute time of your life right now knowing you are the only person in the world who can do this? I often say that "NOBODY plays Pennsy like Bennett can!!!!" I attended last years Railfest. I thought there were a lot more people there this year. Is there anyone in an official capacity on the list to confirm attendance figures? Thanks for telling the NS side of the story to us. I never would have thought of that. Well, there is a 10 thank you limit per email for which I far exceeded. Thank you (again), Bill Lane ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: nuts4prr@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 23:32:02 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Other=Keystone Ring Listers, To show my allegiance to "THE RAILROAD" a bit more I have had a "Keystone" ring made. I am offering copies of these rings to anyone interested. For more information contact me off list. Graeme Nitz An Aussie SPF Now Living in Tulsa ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:44:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia From: Jerry Britton Okay folks, get out your thinking caps for a bit of trivia... There may in fact be more than one answer, but I have one location in mind... Where on the PRR system did one branch parallel another branch AND one of those branches was timetable east/west and the other was north/south? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:47:52 -0400 Subject: [PRR] N Scale H21a's From: Jerry Britton N scaler's: Contact your dealer of choice for reservations... ;-) Bowser has released part numbers for their forthcoming H-21a's. They are due in January for a "suggested" retail price of $12.95. They will be ready-to-run with Crown trucks and couplers (non-Micro-Trains). There are 12 numbers of each of the decorated versions. Undec Circle Keystone Circle Keystone "Coal Goes To War" Shadow Keystone "Early Lettering" ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia Date: Tue, 9 Oct 101 13:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Jerry Britton scribit: > > Okay folks, get out your thinking caps for a bit of trivia... > > There may in fact be more than one answer, but I have one location in > mind... > > Where on the PRR system did one branch parallel another branch AND one of > those branches was timetable east/west and the other was north/south? Hmm ... I thought possibly the A&S (east-west) and the NC, but I see from my PRR ETT (1960s) that the NC was E-W too. Here's one for you, though: The Cumberland Valley, when built as the CVRR, was east-west. The PRR changed it to N-S. The A&S and NC (per my ETT) were east-west. Yet at LEMO, where they cross (CV and NC at grade, CV and A&S not at grade), the north-south CV is oriented east-west, whereas the east-west NC/A&S are oriented north-south. COnfused yet? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:57:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Schock Subject: [PRR] New to list! I am happy to have found this list! I had a little trouble getting on board (something about HTML and plain test), so I went back to the old standby (yahoo). Now about me! I have just started model railroading within the last year, and chose the PRR and B&O (I know what a pair)! I really want to model the region where I currently live which would include NYC, N&W among others! I decided modeling several railroads at once would be expensive and tough! So I went with what I had at the time which was a PRR GG1 and some B&O! So here I am! I am coming back from the train show and Protoype modelers meet in Cleveland so I am tired and excited about model railroading! I picked up a set of PRR heavy weights, and discovered that my K4 would do fine for that! I also have a set of 8 smooth side B&O cars coming, but thats another list :) Well I am glad to be here, and I cant wait to start reading soem good info on the PRR :) ===== Mike Schock Sandusky, Ohio Modeling the B&O and PRR during the Transition Period __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:56:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia This is in no way an attempt to answer Jerry, but in poring over maps looking for a simple solution, I thought of another puzzlement. On the Long Island Rail Road, when the Rockaway lines were operated as a complete loop (Jamaica Bay trestle, then through Far Rockaway and back via Valley Stream), the timetable direction must have changed at some point. How was this handled? Did an eastward movement suddenly become westward at some point? (Possibly at the wye at the southern (timetable east?) end of the trestle?) Of course this is pre-1950 or so, before the trestle burned and the subway took over. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 16:57:24 -0400 From: Kevin Trichtinger Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia Jerry Britton wrote: > Okay folks, get out your thinking caps for a bit of trivia... > > There may in fact be more than one answer, but I have one location in > mind... > > Where on the PRR system did one branch parallel another branch AND one of > those branches was timetable east/west and the other was north/south? Between BECK and MONON, the Scully Branch and the Monongahela Branch shared the right-of-way on parallel tracks. The Monongahela Branch was north-south, and the Scully Branch was east-west. Peace Kevin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 17:44:24 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia In a message dated 10/9/2001 5:10:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ktrick45@icubed.com writes: << Between BECK and MONON, the Scully Branch and the Monongahela Branch shared the right-of-way on parallel tracks. The Monongahela Branch was north-south, and the Scully Branch was east-west. >> This jogs a memory of a possible answer to Jerry's question which alas I have no way of checking at the moment as I am on the road in business. Between Caldwell and Belle Valley, OH, the Ohio River & Western narrow gauge and the ex-Cleveland & Marietta (both controlled by the Pennsy) paralleled each other and at one point shared the same ties with a third rail for the narrow gauge. The C&M on the map is north-south. The OR&W on the map is east-west. I do not have the reference documents to check this, but, depending on how the Pennsy viewed the timetable direction of these lines, could this be a case of the anomaly Jerry is loooking for? Lee Rainey ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:35:43 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] whistle/air horn question Hello all: Does anybody know what the notes (or frequencies) used on the various steam whistles and first generation diesel air horns were? I know there are many different versions of air horns (Nathan/Leslie different number of chimes)... Is this info available anywhere? Thanks, Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:23:46 EDT From: JSZARMACH@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] whistle/air horn question Here's a pretty cool website on airhorns: http://atsf.railfan.net/airhorns/ They even have sound samples. --Joe In a message dated Tue, 9 Oct 2001 7:47:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jeff Warner writes: > Hello all: > > Does anybody know what the notes (or frequencies) used on the various > steam whistles and first generation diesel air horns were? I know there > are many different versions of air horns (Nathan/Leslie different number > of chimes)... Is this info available anywhere? > > Thanks, > > Jeff Warner > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "erik seidelmann" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:25:41 +0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia Pittsburgh Line(E-W) and Buffalo Line (N-S) between Duncannon and west side of Rockville and South Ferry and east side of Rockville? -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:44:16 -0400 To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia > Okay folks, get out your thinking caps for a bit of trivia... > > There may in fact be more than one answer, but I have one location in > mind... > > Where on the PRR system did one branch parallel another branch AND one of > those branches was timetable east/west and the other was north/south? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Have you downloaded the latest calling software from Net2Phone? Click here to get it now! http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=NH211JK&url=http://commcenter.net2phone.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "erik seidelmann" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:29:13 +0800 Subject: [PRR] Fw: Fwd: Railfest 2001 -----Original Message----- From: Sd40blue@aol.com Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:56:44 EDT To: eman@hot-shot.com Subject: Fwd: Railfest 2001 -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Have you downloaded the latest calling software from Net2Phone? Click here to get it now! http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=NH211JK&url=http://commcenter.net2phone.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:57:33 -0400 Group, Does anybody know who makes 5 stripe decals for the Pennsy shark units in HO scale. I have the Roco ones but I don't quite like the color and I would rather have 5 stripes. Any help would be appreciated. PS also have a B unit. Sam Vastano So many hobbies so little time! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger hensley" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:02:25 +0800 Subject: [PRR] test Linda sent pictures with her message. I have uploaded them to the web rather than forward them to everyone. The pictures are great and can be seen at: http://madisonrails.railfan.net/uncle.jpg I'll let her message tell it all without further comment from me. Roger Hensley --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "L. Wendelaar" To: "rhensley_anderson@juno.com" Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 17:16:20 -0400 Subject: Lost Caboose Dear Mr. Hensley, My name is Linda Wendelaar. I am hoping that you can help me locate a model caboose. Let me start at the beginning. My uncle, Ralph Wendelaar, lived in Spruce Head, Maine, and was a model caboose builder and member of the National Model Railroad Association. His Pennsylvania Lines Cabin Car NEA No. 997482 won the coveted "Brass Lantern" award at the 43rd annual NMRA convention in August, 1978, in Dearborn, Michigan. He also won a second place award for his Erie Caboose No. 04732. As of 1978, he had hand built 123 cabooses. In 1979, he made a dollhouse for me from scratch. It sits on a table behind me as I type this. My Uncle Ralph passed away suddenly in December, 1983. My aunt, needing the money, sold his vast collection of model cabooses to an antique dealer in Rockland, Maine. She never informed my father of her decision, nor offered him any of the models. I don't know whether she was too embarrassed to tell him that she needed the money, or what her motivation was. My father found out months later on his visit to Maine to see her. Years later, in a visit to Maine, my older brother, Bill Jr., located the Erie No. 04732 in an antique shop!! The dealer was asking alot for it, but gave my brother a discount when he found out the history behind the model. It proudly sits in his living room today. The reason I am writing to you is that my father has wondered now for years what happened to the Pennsylvania Cabin Car, my Uncle's pride and joy. I have the newspaper article from "The Courier Gazette" dated Saturday, August 19, 1978, that he sent us showing him and his caboose. I would love to solve the mystery of who owns the caboose today and where it is located so that I could tell my Dad. I would be eternally grateful if you could pass this e-mail on to any members that you know of who may know where it is. I have scanned pictures of the caboose, and of the newspaper article. I know it's a long shot, but in this day and age of e-mails, perhaps it could be located. I would be thrilled to tell my Dad and my brothers that I found it. Thank you so much for any help you can give me. Sincerely, Linda Wendelaar 11 Mott Drive Vernon, New Jersey 07462 dutch1@warwick.net (973) 209-4252 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger hensley" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:13:59 +0800 Subject: [PRR] Wrong subject - test Test should have been Fwd: Lost Caboose Roger -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 22:11:40 -0500 Sam--You asked-- > > Does anybody know who makes 5 stripe decals for the Pennsy shark units in HO > scale. I have the Roco ones but I don't quite like the color and I would > rather have 5 stripes. Any help would be appreciated. > Champ has what you need but you better get them while you can. You need EH-78P (Pass. Diesel--Bronze Gold 5-Stripes) and HH-1 30" Herald Bronze Gold & Red (In Circle). Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael Nebinger" Subject: [PRR] Advice Needed Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 00:07:32 -0400 Greetings List! I have been one of the silent lurkers on the list for a month now. I am just getting into model railroading(other than assisting my father in law with his Milwaukee Road layout) and would appreciate some advice. I am going to model PRR and Harrisburg/Enola. I grew up in Enola (which is alone spelled backwards :) and my great grandfather worked for PRR. That is why I am choosing this area. After doing some beginning research, I have picked 1954 to model. My reasoning for this pretty much coincides with Mr. Britton's. You have the most flexibility modeling this year. Now for the requests: 1. Scale. HO or N? The only area that I have available to me is a corner in the basement that is approx. 12' square. The walls already exist on 3 sides, and I do not really want a duck-under. A month ago I would have said HO definitely, but now I am beginning to ponder N, as I am having trouble designing a track plan in HO that will have at least 18" radius curves. I have not purchased anything yet, so my idea is to start off with one scale and be satisfied. 2. Research. I live in NC now, so the only research I can do is over the internet. Are there any magazines that you would recommend I subscribe to? Though on a trip to Strasburg last month, I did purchase a book on passenger coaches at one of their shops. Definite next time is the museum across the street. 3. Any other advice given would be greatly appreciated. The closest hobby shop is about an hour away, so I can't lurk there. Sorry if I rambled a bit. But after being in the planning stage for over a month, I am anxious to get started working with my hands! Michael Nebinger Winston-Salem, NC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:07:58 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Cincinnati Train Show sponsored by local NMRA division Nov 17-18. PRR models In a message dated 10/9/01 5:59:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: << Message: 7 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:42:16 -0000 From: jkendig@blomand.net Subject: Lines West Fans Fest In October of last year, Rick Tipton mentioned that a Lines West Fans Fest might be scheduled for the NMRA Division Seven Meet at Covington this November. Does anyone know about the Division Seven affair or the Lines West Fans Fest? I am a new subscriber to Pennsy West and do no live in the area encompassed by Division Seven. Any information on this event would be appreciated. >> Hi all, Thought I had already sent an answer to this query, but my outfile says not, so it must have been lost in a recent computer crash -- Division Seven's Train Show (not to be confused with a regular NMRA Division meeting) is a big event that is held every year the weekend before Thanksgiving. Thus, this year's event will be on Saturday November 17 and Sunday November 18. For years, this show was held at Cincinnati Gardens, but more recently has moved to an even larger venue across the river in northern Kentucky, at the Covington Convention Center -- I believe it's the first exit south of the I75 bridge if you're coming from the north, and a few blocks east. This locally-sponsored train show is roughly the size of many Great American Train Shows, but with greater focus on the work of local modelers and local rail interest organizations. I expect it will draw larger attendance than the GATS show scheduled the same weekend but an hour south of it in Lexington KY. Always on hand is a large display of high quality Pennsy models by PRRT&HS' Cincinnati modeling group. Likewise B&O, NS/N&W/SOU and L&N groups are usually well represented. I went online last October (also on the phone) and tried to suggest that the Train Show would be a good weekend to piggyback another Lines West Fans Fest. The first LWFF was two years ago in Xenia in the spring. Unfortunately, nobody in the Cincinnati area took the bait, and I was too far away to organize it. However, the November show is still a good place for Pennsy fans to meet (I'll be up there on Saturday the 17th). The other good news is that it appears that PRRT&HS will be holding their annual meeting in Cincinnati in a couple of years -- a first-ever event out here on Lines West. The PRRT&HS annual is always held the first Saturday in May, which of course means I always miss Derby Weekend in Louisville. I know plans are underway for a number of Lines West programs to be presented at that meeting. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:07:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] Cincinnati Train Show sponsored by local NMRA division Nov In a message dated 10/9/01 5:59:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: << Message: 7 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:42:16 -0000 From: jkendig@blomand.net Subject: Lines West Fans Fest In October of last year, Rick Tipton mentioned that a Lines West Fans Fest might be scheduled for the NMRA Division Seven Meet at Covington this November. Does anyone know about the Division Seven affair or the Lines West Fans Fest? I am a new subscriber to Pennsy West and do no live in the area encompassed by Division Seven. Any information on this event would be appreciated. >> Hi all, Thought I had already sent an answer to this query, but my outfile says not, so it must have been lost in a recent computer crash -- Division Seven's Train Show (not to be confused with a regular NMRA Division meeting) is a big event that is held every year the weekend before Thanksgiving. Thus, this year's event will be on Saturday November 17 and Sunday November 18. For years, this show was held at Cincinnati Gardens, but more recently has moved to an even larger venue across the river in northern Kentucky, at the Covington Convention Center -- I believe it's the first exit south of the I75 bridge if you're coming from the north, and a few blocks east. This locally-sponsored train show is roughly the size of many Great American Train Shows, but with greater focus on the work of local modelers and local rail interest organizations. I expect it will draw larger attendance than the GATS show scheduled the same weekend but an hour south of it in Lexington KY. Always on hand is a large display of high quality Pennsy models by PRRT&HS' Cincinnati modeling group. Likewise B&O, NS/N&W/SOU and L&N groups are usually well represented. I went online last October (also on the phone) and tried to suggest that the Train Show would be a good weekend to piggyback another Lines West Fans Fest. The first LWFF was two years ago in Xenia in the spring. Unfortunately, nobody in the Cincinnati area took the bait, and I was too far away to organize it. However, the November show is still a good place for Pennsy fans to meet (I'll be up there on Saturday the 17th). The other good news is that it appears that PRRT&HS will be holding their annual meeting in Cincinnati in a couple of years -- a first-ever event out here on Lines West. The PRRT&HS annual is always held the first Saturday in May, which of course means I always miss Derby Weekend in Louisville. I know plans are underway for a number of Lines West programs to be presented at that meeting. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 22:31:30 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale H21a's Hi Jerry & list members, Anyone know yet what exactly "early lettering" is gonna look like? I can take a guess and say it's a no-keystone style, but has anyone actually asked the folks at Bowser or seen a drawing? - Claus (Stuck firmly in the year 1929) Date sent: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:47:52 -0400 Subject: [PRR] N Scale H21a's From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST > N scaler's: > > Contact your dealer of choice for reservations... ;-) > > Bowser has released part numbers for their forthcoming H-21a's. They are due > in January for a "suggested" retail price of $12.95. They will be > ready-to-run with Crown trucks and couplers (non-Micro-Trains). There are 12 > numbers of each of the decorated versions. > > Undec > Circle Keystone > Circle Keystone "Coal Goes To War" > Shadow Keystone > "Early Lettering" > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Caliciotti Jr." Subject: [PRR] PRR Railings Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:36:22 +0000 This is another great example of the Pennsy standardization. Most railroads used a different type of railing at every bridge or station. I could be way off, but I think the PRR cast stanchions were first made around 1910-1912 when the railroad began system-wide improvements of the right of way. I assume the railroad made its own railing castings, along with the whistle signs and mile markers. Any idea where this might have been done? Sam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:19:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale H21a's From: Jerry Britton On 10/10/01 1:31 AM, Claus Schlund at (schlund@cwnet.com) wrote: > Anyone know yet what exactly > "early lettering" is gonna look like? > > I can take a guess and say it's a no-keystone > style, but has anyone actually asked the folks > at Bowser or seen a drawing? > Hate to assume, but if you go to Bowser's site (http://www.bowser-trains.com) and look under HO scale freight cars/H21, there is one that is labeled "early". These would be pre-Circle Keystone. For my 1954 modeling, I figure I'll get 2-3 of these, a half dozen CK "Coal Gows to War", and a dozen each of CK and SK. When additional numbers come out, I will only purchase CK. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:22:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia From: Jerry Britton On 10/9/01 9:25 PM, erik seidelmann at (eman@hot-shot.com) wrote: > Pittsburgh Line(E-W) and Buffalo Line (N-S) between > Duncannon and west side of Rockville and South Ferry and east side of > Rockville? Well there is the matter of the Susquehanna River in between, but that's a viable guess! > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Britton > Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:44:16 -0400 > To: PRR-Talk LIST > Subject: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia > > >> Okay folks, get out your thinking caps for a bit of trivia... >> >> There may in fact be more than one answer, but I have one location in >> mind... >> >> Where on the PRR system did one branch parallel another branch AND one of >> those branches was timetable east/west and the other was north/south? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you pu