From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 05:14:07 EDT Subject: [PRR] pass this along... Hey Yuze Gize... I will be out for the long weekend in the Puget Sound so if anyone can catch up with Gary Mittner let him know I talked to Randy Lee of Model Railroading today and his F-units will publish in the October issue. I just finished a sidebar for his article that Randy ask me to do on the PRR EMD F-3's and man is it late. Hope Yuze Gize enjoy it, Gary did a bang up job! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 06:13:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] pass this along... From: Jerry Britton On 9/1/01 5:14 AM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com at (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > I will be out for the long weekend in the Puget Sound so if anyone can catch > up with Gary Mittner let him know I talked to Randy Lee of Model Railroading > today and his F-units will publish in the October issue. I just finished a > sidebar for his article that Randy ask me to do on the PRR EMD F-3's and man > is it late. Hope Yuze Gize enjoy it, Gary did a bang up job! > Greg, all: A few days ago Gary notified me he will be "off list" for a while as he visits his brother. Arizona, maybe? Anyway, it was at least mid-September till he will be back. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 16:32:07 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 8/31/01 9:56 AM, Steven Hanlon (steveh@mth-railking.com) wrote: > > > At 09:34 AM 8/31/01 -0400, Jerry Britton wrote: > >> Just a reminder that Harry Webber's new site -- whatever it entails -- > >> arrives tomorrow. > >> > >> The domain placeholder page was replaced a few days ago. A beautiful > >> passenger train with excellent sound now passes across the screen. > >> > >> The Broadway Limited Arrives tomorrow at > >> > >> http://www.thebroadwayltd.com Well, it's 4:30 PM Saturday and all I get on my Mac using either IE 5.02 or Netscape 4.75 with all the plug-ins is the tops of the passenger cars racing past me. Is it up for any of the rest of you? Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 16:01:59 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! From: "William J. Ayers" Bill, List, No it is not! I checked it out earlier this morning and again just now on my Mac (IE 5.0), and I also got what you did. Is this like most construction projects that fall behind schedule? I continue to wait for whatever it is. Bill Ayers > From: prrbill > Reply-To: prrbill@Op.Net > Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 16:32:07 -0400 > To: PRR-Talk LIST > Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! > > Jerry Britton wrote: >> >> On 8/31/01 9:56 AM, Steven Hanlon (steveh@mth-railking.com) wrote: >> >>> At 09:34 AM 8/31/01 -0400, Jerry Britton wrote: >>>> Just a reminder that Harry Webber's new site -- whatever it entails -- >>>> arrives tomorrow. >>>> >>>> The domain placeholder page was replaced a few days ago. A beautiful >>>> passenger train with excellent sound now passes across the screen. >>>> >>>> The Broadway Limited Arrives tomorrow at >>>> >>>> http://www.thebroadwayltd.com > > Well, it's 4:30 PM Saturday and all I get on my Mac using either IE 5.02 > or Netscape 4.75 with all the plug-ins is the tops of the passenger cars > racing past me. Is it up for any of the rest of you? > > Bill Morlitz > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tom Kane Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:57:44 -0400 Win 95 and IE 5.0 I get just the car lettering. Thomas M. Kane Consulting Systems Engineer Hitachi Data Systems Phone: 703-481-4273 FAX: 509-695-2591 Pager 800-PAGE-MCI PIN 1680533 Email: Tom.Kane@hds.com -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 9:35 AM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! Just a reminder that Harry Webber's new site -- whatever it entails -- arrives tomorrow. The domain placeholder page was replaced a few days ago. A beautiful passenger train with excellent sound now passes across the screen. The Broadway Limited Arrives tomorrow at http://www.thebroadwayltd.com ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:23:41 -0400 Bill& list: I'm running Windows 98 on an IBM clone and that's all I get. There is a vertical adjustment on the right of the screen but no bar to adjust things in it. Maybe it only works with Windows XT, which isn't out yet. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "prrbill" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! > Jerry Britton wrote: > > > > On 8/31/01 9:56 AM, Steven Hanlon (steveh@mth-railking.com) wrote: > > > > > At 09:34 AM 8/31/01 -0400, Jerry Britton wrote: > > >> Just a reminder that Harry Webber's new site -- whatever it entails -- > > >> arrives tomorrow. > > >> > > >> The domain placeholder page was replaced a few days ago. A beautiful > > >> passenger train with excellent sound now passes across the screen. > > >> > > >> The Broadway Limited Arrives tomorrow at > > >> > > >> http://www.thebroadwayltd.com > > Well, it's 4:30 PM Saturday and all I get on my Mac using either IE 5.02 > or Netscape 4.75 with all the plug-ins is the tops of the passenger cars > racing past me. Is it up for any of the rest of you? > > Bill Morlitz > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 19:59:44 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited departure time update Harry Webber wrote me that he tried to get a note through to the list but it wasn't getting posted. The Broadway Ltd.com is scheduled to go live at 12 midnight tonight PST. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 19:47:26 -0700 Subject: FW: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! From: "William J. Ayers" List, I received this message from Harry Weber about the debut of TheBroadwayLtd.com. He has not been able to post it on PRR-Talk, so I am forwarding it to the List. ---------- > From: Harry Webber > Organization: Smart Communications, Inc. > Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 15:30:11 -0800 > To: "William J. Ayers" > Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! > > Hello list, > > Our arrival time for http://www.TheBroadwayLtd.com is 12 midnight > (PST)tonight. > 8 artists, designers and programmers have given up their Labor Day for this > labor of love, so please bear with us. > > Harry Webber > Bill Ayers ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 03:57:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] T1 Hi, till when were T1's in service? Thx, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 09:30:09 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! The Broadway must be running on Amtraks schedule thesedays!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 09:59:33 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! In a message dated 9/2/01 6:35:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, CENTGA@aol.com writes: << The Broadway must be running on Amtraks schedule thesedays!!! >> Dear List, The Broadway Limited is now boarding at episode 1.0 / Rebirth Of A Ledgend Please have your tickets ready and step to the gate ! ! Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 07:45:41 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh Offices? From: "Douglas Nelson" Can someone tell me what PRR offices were located in the tower above the Pittsburgh station in 1956? Thanks for your help. Doug Nelson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 09:43:26 -0700 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! Hi All, Just checked ot out and it "seems" to be working. I viewed a short "movie" that was shown "letterbox" style. The letterbox is about 3"x10". I won't describe the movie so as not to spoil the experience if that matters to you. It showed more than just cartops or lettering and ended with a notice for episode 2. Later, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 12:49:37 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR 643 Hi Folks, I was out at Williams Grove yesterday and took a ride on the aforementioned freight train. Number 643 is a B4a 0-6-0 switcher built in June 1901 by the Altoona complex (according to the builder's plate). It does NOT have a Belpaire firebox. All-in-all it was a short, but pleasant little jaunt on the world's only operating PRR steam locomotive (and 100 years old at that)!!! If you're in the area, you should try to get to Williams Grove (south on US 15 just off the PA Turnpike). Cheers, George Modeling the PRR in the Weirton, WV-Steubenville, OH area from 1948-1957. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 12:57:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! Did I miss something, all I got was the car tops going by. Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 17:24:51 -0400 Todd: Maybe you need to "Delete Offline Content" and "Delete History" under "Tools", then "internet options" if you're using IE. Harry Webber needs a spellchecker - its spelled "Legend", not "Ledgend". Gregg Mahlkov, ex PRR and New Yorker ---- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Arrives Tomorrow!!! > Did I miss something, all I got was the car tops going by. Todd Horton > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pittsburgh Offices? Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 11:54:02 -0400 Doug Nelson inquired... >Can someone tell me what PRR offices were located in the tower above the >Pittsburgh station in 1956? > The 9-story office tower was the headquarters of the PRR Pittsburgh Division. It has now been turned into apartments or condos--I'm not precisely certain which. The passenger facilities are still used by Amtrak, of course. And the east end of the building houses PITT BOX 4, the yard office for Norfork Southern PITT crews. Terry Stuart The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B 62 Beaver Street Fallston, PA 15066 www.forcomm.net/flagstop ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty \(The Cos\)" Subject: RE: [PRR] OT - E33 Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 21:43:49 -0400 Maybe we could get real lucky - Bachmann could make a nice E33 with correct trucks and pan assemble -then Rail Power Products could make a mint on E44 bodies. Cos Cos Communications, Inc. Home Page Rail Road Pages -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 4:21 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] OT - E33 Hey gang, Its off topic, but the latest product release info from Walthers includes an HO scale E-33 (Virginian EL-C, ex NH) in the Botchman Spectrum line...can an E-44 be far behind ??? Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 21:41:59 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR's Worst Labor Day Weekend A good friend just sent thidsto me. I had forgotten all about this event which truely made for what must have been the worst weekend in the history of the PRR. sunspot.net - print edition Jon S. PRRT&HS #3079 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 21:25:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 On Sun, 2 Sep 2001, Geoffrey Van Dooren wrote: > Hi, > till when were T1's in service? > Thx, Geoffrey Geoffry, I think the exact date may be in some question, but T1s were removed from blue ribbon train service in 1947/48 and down graded to secondary and mail trains where they ran only a few more years. They were scrapped around 1953, but it as fairly unlikely to see a T-1 in service anytime after 1949... Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 23:45:42 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] OT - E33 The only problem is the frames are different lengths between the E-33 and E-44. Maybe if they sell enough E-33's we'll see some E-44's. It will probably happen since I've repowered my E-33 and E-44 fleet with Stewart drives. Now we get a plastic one !!!!!! ------------------------ Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] Life-Like Pennsy Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 20:35:29 +0000 Life-Like is doing a HO scale 0-6-0, which is supposed to be out in April. Here is the information: 30221 0-6-0 Pennsylvania black, gold lettering #7300 US-$ 225,00 30222 0-6-0 Pennsylvania black, gold lettering #7341 US-$ 225,00 It can found on the following web page: http://home.t-online.de/home/all-american-trains/ It is nice to see another engine that Pennsy had come out in the nice plastic, but I wish we could see a real Pennsy engine come out. A J1a would be nice. Eric _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] P2K Heritage USRA 0-6-0 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:19:49 -0400 P2K announced that the Heritage USRA 0-6-0 switcher will be released in the April/May 2002 timeframe. Note that this is the USRA version and NOT the B-6 Belpaire firebox version pictured on the European web site. Life Like plans to have their web site updated in the next day or two. Dennis Mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES (732) 271-0800 Voice http://www.onerrave.com (732) 271-0805 FAX 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 23:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Freight Trains via Fort Wayne Bridge/Federal Street, Greetings List, After today's cookout, some PRR fans and I watched some PRR and Penn Central movies. Both movies showed PRR and PC freights at Federal Street's ramps where trains duck under enroute east via the Conemaugh Mainline and freights and passenger trains using the ramps to cross the Fort Wayne Bridge. Do those freight trains go through the station and how long was PRR doing this? I have both books,"PRR's Golden Triangle" and "The PRR in the Steel City"and it does'nt look like freight trains could clear that canopy train shed at Pittsburgh Station. I don't know much about the PRR in Pittsburgh so if someone out there could clear this up for me I would appreciate It. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Life-Like Pennsy Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:08:16 -0400 Is the second number a typo on the German site? The USRA 0-6-0's were class B28s. Keystone Steam & Electric lists the 7300 as a B28s but #7341 doesn't show up as a B28s. I'm guessing they're really doing the 7314 which was a B28s.. I'm pretty sure that the book mentions that there were 30 B28s's, all assigned to lines west... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Eric > Lauterbach > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 4:35 PM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Life-Like Pennsy > > > Life-Like is doing a HO scale 0-6-0, which is supposed to be out > in April. > Here is the information: > 30221 0-6-0 Pennsylvania black, gold lettering #7300 US-$ 225,00 > 30222 0-6-0 Pennsylvania black, gold lettering #7341 US-$ 225,00 > It can found on the following web page: > http://home.t-online.de/home/all-american-trains/ > > It is nice to see another engine that Pennsy had come out in the nice > plastic, but I wish we could see a real Pennsy engine come out. A > J1a would > be nice. > Eric > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 11:11:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Life-Like Pennsy From: Jerry Britton On 9/4/01 11:08 AM, Rob Schoenberg (robs@actel.com) wrote: > Is the second number a typo on the German site? The USRA 0-6-0's > were class B28s. Keystone Steam & Electric lists the 7300 as a > B28s but #7341 doesn't show up as a B28s. I'm guessing they're > really doing the 7314 which was a B28s.. I'm pretty sure that > the book mentions that there were 30 B28s's, all assigned to lines > west... > Both units are class B28s. The correct road numbers are #7300 and #7641. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 12:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Freight Trains via Fort Wayne Bridge/Federal Hello List, We watched the movies again and there are some early 1960s PRR TrucTrains at Federal Street going east (under the jumpovers) on the Conemaugh mainline. All of the "High and Wides" aren't going through the station. At least in this part of the tape. Then it shows some PRR SD45/SD40s powered freights (some TrucTrain) climbing the ramps to cross the Fort Wayne Bridge. This has to be 1966 because the SD45s shown look brand new. Clean! I'm thinking that maybe PRR took out some of the canopies at the station so these trains could "squeeze" through the station. One part of the movie shows a few derailments on the sharp curve leading into the station. And this was after the PRR improved the alignment into the station. This is where the T-1s had all thier problems. That is one sharp curve. Listening to the piggybacks go thru that curve will kill your ears. The Penn Central part of the movie shows just about every type of high and wide car crossing the Fort Wayne Bridge. Shows PC freights derailing on that same curve with boxcars landing in a parking lot. "Sir,I parked my car here an hour ago, now I can't find it. It's underneath that boxcar,but don't worry, Penn Central write you a check for a new one!" Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:08:51 +0000 Subject: [PRR] November is Model RR Month November is Model Railroad month here in the States. In the past, the Central Indiana Division, NMRA has held a regular Meet/Dealer Show at the end of October or early November. But we have never stressed promoting the hobby. This year we are. We are holding a free admission Meet in cooperation with the Pike Township Lion's Club (Indianapolis, IN) Pancake Breakfast (the pancakes cost, the Meet is free). We will have clinics and portable and modular layouts and an on-going scenery construction project. The first clinic of the day will be aimed directly at young modelers with a car kit construction clinic. They will get to keep the car and some of the simple tools that they used to build it. Everything we do that day will be aimed at introducing the hobby to new people. This was before we heard about Kalmbach's 'Greatest Hobby in the World' program, but it certainly ties in with it. Why tell you this? I would suggest that there is still time for clubs and organizations to set up something for November. Advertise it! Let people know about the hobby. Don't just put a notice in a hobby shop. That's nice, but it is preaching to the choir. Get something in the local paper, or on radio. Perhaps you might get an active display in a shopping mall. Get some help from a local shop if you have one. The sky is the limit when it comes to ideas. It IS a great hobby, so let's tell people about it! Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@localnet.com == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:25:41 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight Trains via Fort Wayne Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art wrote (in part): > > . . . > Shows PC > freights derailing on that same curve with boxcars landing in a > parking > lot. "Sir,I parked my car here an hour ago, now I can't find it. It's > underneath that boxcar,but don't worry, Penn Central write you a check > for a new one!" > > Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Cash it quickly! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Freight Trains via Fort Wayne Bridge/Federal Hello List Most of the early 1960s PRR footage in the tape were shot by some of my buddies on 16mm film. We transferred it to video. The late PRR/Penn Central footage is on a tape called "Penn Central" by Revelations. It's a good tape; don't let the name fool you. This tape might be still avalible. It's about 10 years old now. Nice cab rides from Altoona to Pittsburgh on the four track mainline passing what seems to be a thousand freight trains. Cab rides between York Pa. and Buffalo also. Shows trains on the Brilliant Branch crossing over the B&O. The tape is system wide but there is a lot of Pittsburgh footage. There is another tape out with trains on the Fort Wayne Bridge but I'm not sure of the title. It may be on one of those "PRR Power" series tapes. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 16:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Freight Trains via Fort Wayne Bridge/Federal Here's the address of the video company that has these tapes. They have other PRR and Penn Central tapes that are really nice. And they are under $20 bucks. Revelations Audio-Visuals 977 East Ave. Tallmadge Ohio 44278 Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 20:27:52 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] F-Unit Stripes Gene, Al is correct the stripes on the F-unis should be 2-inches wide and most decals on the market are at least 3-inches wide. I am trying to get Microscale to change this but there has been changes at Microscle and the backlog for correcting decal sheets they produce are long. However; they work for all other diesel locomotives if I an not mistaken. The EMD F-units were delieverd from the factory with a 2-inch wide strip that was continuous from nose to the end (wrapped) at 2-inches and some units never received the tappered stripe or the revised location of the Keystone on the nose even thought their numbers (inside the Keystone) were removed and the logo PRR was added. This was to be done in 1952 with the shoppings that included the "ladder grabs" and the nose lift rings. But as you will see in the soon to be released Withers Book on the F-units that was not always the case... so much for the "Standard". Greg Martin endeimling@home.com writes: > I read something by Greg Martin about Athearn's new F-unit having the correct stripe width and all decal sets are incorrect (assume too wide). >What is the correct width? >Thanks, >Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 18:27:54 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh Offices Photos - need help From: "Douglas Nelson" Thanks for the several responses I received from Al Buchan, Pat McKinney, Rich Orr, and Terry Stuart regarding the Pittburgh offices. Now for the second part to my request for help. I have posted 4 photos from 1956 (3 from the offices and 1 from a tower). Can anyone identify the offices or people in the photos, and which tower the 4th photo is taken in. Photo 1 and 2 may be the Region superintendent?? Photo 3 may be the Dispatcher's room?? Thanks for any help. The photos can be viewed at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=637118&a=13716481 If you use AOL, use this link to see the photos: Click here Thanks again, Doug Nelson PRRT&HS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 00:30:37 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Rails Northeast Hi All, Does anyone have an "extra" copy of the Aug. 1979 Rails Northeast that I could buy? If not could someone scan the article on the H-25? Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks, Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Rails Northeast Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 00:30:37 -0400 Hi All, Does anyone have an "extra" copy of the Aug. 1979 Rails Northeast that I could buy? If not could someone scan the article on the H-25? Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks, Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 12:11:35 -0400 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] PRR SCREEN-SAVERS or WALLPAPER Does anyone know where I can download screen-savers or wallpaper featuring PRR steam or diesels for a fee or free?? THANX!! Dpoole17@PAnetwork.com -- DICK POOLE -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 19:42:10 EDT From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Tom V's Dayton & Western/Dayton & Union observations Gee, Rick, Wonder what I was thinking about when I wrote this. Still struggling to update PC so I can go online from home. Construction of bike path on the old Panhandle Columbus-Division mainline between South Chalreston and London set to be complete this fall. On Dayton's east side the path runs north from Clement crossing along the R-O-W of the B&O "Dayton Bypass," a lin originally built during the narrowguage boom in the early 1880s that ran from the B&O yards\ north of Dayton (is it named Queensgate?) andbrefly along the Dayton, Lebanon & Cincinnati to the ??Wellston?? subdivision orginally laid out in the 1870s as the narrow guage Dayton & Southeastern that ran through Jamestown and Washington C.H. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 23:01:31 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] G-26 in Conrail Hi All, I am still on my hunt for an existing G-26. Does anyone have a listing of what any current G-26 car numbers could be in Conrail? Also, could someone please cross post this to the Conrail list? I don't want to join for just this inquiry. I am hoping that I can locate one in Altoona when I go to Railfest next month for research for a brass project. Please reply to billlane@snip.net and PKMac101@aol.com Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] G-26 in Conrail Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 23:01:31 -0400 Hi All, I am still on my hunt for an existing G-26. Does anyone have a listing of what any current G-26 car numbers could be in Conrail? Also, could someone please cross post this to the Conrail list? I don't want to join for just this inquiry. I am hoping that I can locate one in Altoona when I go to Railfest next month for research for a brass project. Please reply to billlane@snip.net and PKMac101@aol.com Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:31:49 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tom V's Dayton & Western/Dayton & Union observations In a message dated 9/5/01 7:42:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LINESWEST writes: << Gee, Rick, Wonder what I was thinking about when I wrote this. Still struggling to update PC so I can go online from home. Construction of bike path on the old Panhandle Columbus-Division mainline between South Chalreston and London set to be complete this fall. On Dayton's east side the path runs north from Clement crossing>> B&O's tight-clearance underpass under the PRR << along the R-O-W of the B&O "Dayton Bypass," a lin originally built during the narrowguage boom in the early 1880s that ran from the B&O yards\ north of Dayton (is it named Queensgate?)>> probably Needmore Road Yard -- Queensgate is Chessie/CSX's major rebuild of the B&O yards in Cincinnati, just north of the Cincinnati Union Terminal << andbrefly along the Dayton, Lebanon & Cincinnati to the ??Wellston?? subdivision>> yes, B&O's Wellston Subdivision, which went to the coalfields near Jackson Ohio << orginally laid out in the 1870s as the narrow guage Dayton & Southeastern that ran through Jamestown and Washington C.H.>> after D&SE days, believe it was labelled the Dayton Fort Wayne & Chicago. This line was standard-gaged and absorbed by the Cincinnati Hamilton & Dayton; it complemented the CH&D's major route from Cincinnati through Dayton to Toledo. Closer to the 20th Century, the CH&D became part of the B&O. Thanks, Tom, for the further update on the paved bike paths radiating from Xenia. Hang in there -- it's good to hear from you. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Day" Subject: [PRR] Fw: PRR BS10 (VO-1000) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:17:55 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Day To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 10:04 AM Subject: PRR BS10 (VO-1000) > List, > > I'm currently assembling this, the latest to my roster, and was wondering > how many stacks ( were they the tall of short ones) the PRR's BS10's had on > them and if there was a photo available. This is a beautiful model and I > want it to be correct. I forget what the loco # is as I don't have it here > with me at this writing, but the last 2 digits are 18 (if anybody has photos > of this particular engine). > > Enjoying this list immensely and am in the process of renumbering some of my > N-5's andd N-5c's correctly (thanks to info gleaned from this list) for the > Buckeye and Pittsburgh regions especially cabins that were located in and > worked out ot Mingo Jct., OH & Weirton, WV. > > SPF > > Doug > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: [PRR] Laser cutting material Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:42:31 -0400 Can anyone direct me to a person/company that does laser cutting of thin wood parts? I need to reproduce some fine, intricate detail for a scratchbuilding project. Lew Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:07:23 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: PRR BS10 (VO-1000) Doug Day sez: >> I'm currently assembling this, the latest to my roster, and was wondering >> how many stacks ( were they the tall of short ones) the PRR's BS10's had on >> them and if there was a photo available. This is a beautiful model and I >> want it to be correct. I forget what the loco # is as I don't have it here >> with me at this writing, but the last 2 digits are 18 (if anybody has photos >> of this particular engine). David Thompson posted a complete phased production history of the Baldwin VO-1000 on the PM-list (Now the RM-list on Yehaw groups http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RAILROADmodeler). He identified the following PRR locomotives: Qty. Road r/n Date b/n Phase Stacks 3 PRR 5913-5915 9/43 69662-69664 IIc 1 2 PRR 5916,5917 9,10/43 69665,69666 IId 1 1 PRR 5918 11/43 69784 IId 1 2 PRR 5919,5920 10/45 71552,71553 IIIc 4 It would appear that you are interested in #5918, a phase IId loco with one stack. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tom Kane Subject: [PRR] New Atlas SD-35 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:11:21 -0700 I just received an email announcing an HO SD-35 in PRR livery (3 actually, 6016, 6035 and no #) for February 2002. Thomas M. Kane Consulting Systems Engineer Hitachi Data Systems Phone: 703-481-4273 FAX: 509-695-2591 Pager 800-PAGE-MCI PIN 1680533 Email: Tom.Kane@hds.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 15:20:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Atlas SD-35 From: Jerry Britton On 9/6/01 3:11 PM, Tom Kane (Tom.Kane@hds.com) wrote: > I just received an email announcing an HO SD-35 in PRR livery (3 actually, > 6016, 6035 and no #) for February 2002. > Yes, I just added them to the "Advance Reservations" page on the "Merchandise Service" site. They also announced DASH 8-40B's in N scale in Conrail and Norfolk Southern, for those that model PRR successor lines. (These will be posted shortly.) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 18:03:29 EDT From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Tom V's Dayton & Western/Dayton & Union observations Rick, Jim Schaup, writing in "Next Stop, Xenia" a small book on Greene County, Ohio, railroads states that there were a total of (if I remember right) 19 different corporate names for the B&O Wellston Sub beginning with the Dayton, Xenia & Bellpre which first laid out the line between Xenia and Washington Court House in the 1850s and had the R-O-W graded and grubbed when it was accquired by the Little Miami Railroad in the 1850s. The r-o-w east of Xenia was sold off to investors but construction did not begin in earnest until the D&SE in the early 1870s. I have a hunch the D&SE was the coal hauling line that nearly ruined NCR founder John Patterson in the early 1880s forcing him to conc entrate on his mechanical "honest cashier." Tom V. In a message dated Thu, 6 Sep 2001 7:38:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: > << andbrefly along the Dayton, Lebanon & Cincinnati to the ??Wellston?? > subdivision>> > > yes, B&O's Wellston Subdivision, which went to the coalfields near Jackson > Ohio > > << orginally laid out in the 1870s as the narrow guage Dayton & Southeastern > that ran through Jamestown and Washington C.H.>> > > after D&SE days, believe it was labelled the Dayton Fort Wayne & Chicago. > This line was standard-gaged and absorbed by the Cincinnati Hamilton & > Dayton; it complemented the CH&D's major route from Cincinnati through Dayton > to Toledo. Closer to the 20th Century, the CH&D became part of the B&O. > > Thanks, Tom, for the further update on the paved bike paths radiating from > Xenia. Hang in there -- it's good to hear from you. > > Rick Tipton > Louisville KY > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 18:03:30 EDT From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Tom V's Dayton & Western/Dayton & Union observations Rick, Jim Schaup, writing in "Next Stop, Xenia" a small book on Greene County, Ohio, railroads states that there were a total of (if I remember right) 19 different corporate names for the B&O Wellston Sub beginning with the Dayton, Xenia & Bellpre which first laid out the line between Xenia and Washington Court House in the 1850s and had the R-O-W graded and grubbed when it was accquired by the Little Miami Railroad in the 1850s. The r-o-w east of Xenia was sold off to investors but construction did not begin in earnest until the D&SE in the early 1870s. I have a hunch the D&SE was the coal hauling line that nearly ruined NCR founder John Patterson in the early 1880s forcing him to conc entrate on his mechanical "honest cashier." Tom V. In a message dated Thu, 6 Sep 2001 7:38:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: > << andbrefly along the Dayton, Lebanon & Cincinnati to the ??Wellston?? > subdivision>> > > yes, B&O's Wellston Subdivision, which went to the coalfields near Jackson > Ohio > > << orginally laid out in the 1870s as the narrow guage Dayton & Southeastern > that ran through Jamestown and Washington C.H.>> > > after D&SE days, believe it was labelled the Dayton Fort Wayne & Chicago. > This line was standard-gaged and absorbed by the Cincinnati Hamilton & > Dayton; it complemented the CH&D's major route from Cincinnati through Dayton > to Toledo. Closer to the 20th Century, the CH&D became part of the B&O. > > Thanks, Tom, for the further update on the paved bike paths radiating from > Xenia. Hang in there -- it's good to hear from you. > > Rick Tipton > Louisville KY > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:53:18 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR PTT's on List 12 of the Jack Fravert collection A semi-non-commercial message: As we approach the close of another auction of materials from the Jack Fravert estate, I note that this batch includes two PRR passenger timetables: 1. PRR Form 1, July 11, 1948. 56pp, condition VG to excellent 2. PRR Form 4, Sept 29, 1929 (New York and the West). 28pp, soiled cover (fair), with G to VG pages. Of course, there's much more including old Equipment Registers and Official Guides, employee timetables for "those other roads", and a brass L&N steam locomotive whistle. Remember, these items do not appear on eBay; they're bid on only by a small group of fans. If you message me now, there's time to send you List 12 and get you started bidding before it closes. We'll have two more lists this fall and winter before we volunteers close out this estate. Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-228-4997 (8am to 8pm please) Fax 502-426-0089 (for now) Wolf Penn Station 5108 Wolf Pen Woods Drive Prospect, KY 40059-9197 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:53:18 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR PTT's on List 12 of the Jack Fravert collection A semi-non-commercial message: As we approach the close of another auction of materials from the Jack Fravert estate, I note that this batch includes two PRR passenger timetables: 1. PRR Form 1, July 11, 1948. 56pp, condition VG to excellent 2. PRR Form 4, Sept 29, 1929 (New York and the West). 28pp, soiled cover (fair), with G to VG pages. Of course, there's much more including old Equipment Registers and Official Guides, employee timetables for "those other roads", and a brass L&N steam locomotive whistle. Remember, these items do not appear on eBay; they're bid on only by a small group of fans. If you message me now, there's time to send you List 12 and get you started bidding before it closes. We'll have two more lists this fall and winter before we volunteers close out this estate. Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-228-4997 (8am to 8pm please) Fax 502-426-0089 (for now) Wolf Penn Station 5108 Wolf Pen Woods Drive Prospect, KY 40059-9197 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: nuts4prr@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 09:53:37 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] SIze Listers, I was just sent this story by a friend, I don't know if it is true but it is funny and does have PRR (bow down and grovel) content. Size?   There was the time that the president of the Maryland and Pennsylvania (short-line) Railroad demanded to get a free pass to ride the Pennsylvania Railroad. In exchange, he said, he'd give the president of the Pennsy a pass over the Ma & Pa. "What good is that?" asked the PRR's president. "Your railroad is a hundred times shorter than ours!" "Ah," said the president of the Ma & Pa, "but it's just as wide!" Graeme Nitz An Aussie SPF Now Living in Tulsa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 20:09:36 -0400 From: Rail Classics Subject: [PRR] Photos of the F-38 HD Flat Car Hello; We have posted photos on our Web Site www.railclassics.com of our F-38 HD Flat Cars that we just received from our builder. These are Production Samples which we will check for any corrections that will have to be made before the final production run is built. Let us know what you think of them. EDDY at RAIL CLASSICS www.railclassics.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 19:36:33 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RailFest Festivities From: Jerry Britton For the fourth year in a row, we are arranging a get-together at RailFest for subscribers of "PRR-Talk" and "Conrail-Talk". Once again, Carl Haslett has volunteered to coordinate the event. If you plan to attend on Saturday, Oct. 6th, please contact Carl at chaslett@cse.l-3com.com and let him know. Due to another commitment I will be attending on Sunday with my son. As we get closer, Carl will make posts to the list summarizing plans to encourage more participation. Thanks all! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:15:18 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Wow - Dayton Xenia & Belpre/Little Miami In a message dated 9/7/01 1:12:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Rick, Jim Schaup, writing in "Next Stop, Xenia" a small book on Greene County, Ohio, railroads states that there were a total of (if I remember right) 19 different corporate names for the B&O Wellston Sub beginning with the Dayton, Xenia & Bellpre which first laid out the line between Xenia and Washington Court House in the 1850s and had the R-O-W graded and grubbed when it was accquired by the Little Miami Railroad in the 1850s. The r-o-w east of Xenia was sold off to investors but construction did not begin in earnest until the D&SE in the early 1870s. I have a hunch the D&SE was the coal hauling line that nearly ruined NCR founder John Patterson in the early 1880s forcing him to conc entrate on his mechanical "honest cashier." Tom V. >> Tom, You continue to astound me, as I hadn't picked up on the DX&B being the B&O Wellston subdivision predecessor east/southeast of Xenia. Rightly or wrongly, I associate DX&B with the PRR's 16-mile line between Xenia and Dayton. That would certainly explain why the B&O track ran along the south boundary of the PRR Xenia station property, and broke southeast at the PRR freight house in the direction of Washington Court House. Did this line to Washington Court House line up well with the PRR/DX&B? alignment coming in from Dayton and Trebein? Obviously, at one time it would have - the Dayton line had quite a curve to get it behind the passenger station (old or "new") and to its connection with the Little Miami's "C&X" line from Xenia to Columbus. Note to all: virtually all traces of everything discussed here have disappeared. All four PRR lines radiating from Xenia (southwest to Cincinnati, west to Dayton, north to Springfield, and northeast to Columbus) came under the control of the Little Miami RR before the Civil War. Now all four of these ex-PRR tracks are bike trails and the station yards have been redeveloped as a park. Need I comment that one of the neat things about the PRR/Little Miami at Xenia is its alignment. Originally the LM main curved north from the yards and went up the hill in Detroit Street toward Springfield. But when PRR affiliates and other roads reached Columbus, the LM partnered/took over the Columbus & Xenia, and then the main line ran Cincinnati-Morrow-Xenia-London-Columbus, running into the new Columbus Union Depot. Over the PRR years, three things happened: 1. The line became mileposted from Columbus to Cincinnati. The Dayton line west and the Springfield Branch (railroad east) each had a milepost zero at Xenia station. 2. At Xenia, this line from Columbus to Cincinnati became a straight two and three track R-O-W all the way through town. It's implied that, at the time this was done, the railroad to Cincinnati carried more traffic than the single track/minimally improved line that diverged toward Dayton. 3. In 1955, the line to Cincinnati was Main Line of the Cincinnati District, Buckeye Region. In 1956, it was one of the main lines of Buckeye Region, shown on an equal footing with the line west through Dayton to Indianapolis. But in later timetables, the main line runs Columbus-Dayton-Indianapolis. By 1970 (PC Southern Region TT 4), the Cincinnati line became the "C&X Branch", downgraded in favor of the NYC's line from Dayton to Cincinnati. First, much traffic still flowed Columbus-London-Xenia-Dayton-Cincinnati, especially westbounds because they weren't bothered by the stiff hill eastbound out of Dayton. Later, all the traffic went Columbus-London on the PRR side, and London-Springfield-Dayton-Cincinnati on the NYC side. This allowed eventual abandonment of all of the four legs of the Little Miami out of Xenia, and railroading there came to an end. PS: Wish I could find my copy of "Next Stop Xenia", published by the Greene County Historical Society. The move still has the railroad stuff in a mess. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:15:18 EDT Subject: [PRR] Wow - Dayton Xenia & Belpre/Little Miami In a message dated 9/7/01 1:12:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Rick, Jim Schaup, writing in "Next Stop, Xenia" a small book on Greene County, Ohio, railroads states that there were a total of (if I remember right) 19 different corporate names for the B&O Wellston Sub beginning with the Dayton, Xenia & Bellpre which first laid out the line between Xenia and Washington Court House in the 1850s and had the R-O-W graded and grubbed when it was accquired by the Little Miami Railroad in the 1850s. The r-o-w east of Xenia was sold off to investors but construction did not begin in earnest until the D&SE in the early 1870s. I have a hunch the D&SE was the coal hauling line that nearly ruined NCR founder John Patterson in the early 1880s forcing him to conc entrate on his mechanical "honest cashier." Tom V. >> Tom, You continue to astound me, as I hadn't picked up on the DX&B being the B&O Wellston subdivision predecessor east/southeast of Xenia. Rightly or wrongly, I associate DX&B with the PRR's 16-mile line between Xenia and Dayton. That would certainly explain why the B&O track ran along the south boundary of the PRR Xenia station property, and broke southeast at the PRR freight house in the direction of Washington Court House. Did this line to Washington Court House line up well with the PRR/DX&B? alignment coming in from Dayton and Trebein? Obviously, at one time it would have - the Dayton line had quite a curve to get it behind the passenger station (old or "new") and to its connection with the Little Miami's "C&X" line from Xenia to Columbus. Note to all: virtually all traces of everything discussed here have disappeared. All four PRR lines radiating from Xenia (southwest to Cincinnati, west to Dayton, north to Springfield, and northeast to Columbus) came under the control of the Little Miami RR before the Civil War. Now all four of these ex-PRR tracks are bike trails and the station yards have been redeveloped as a park. Need I comment that one of the neat things about the PRR/Little Miami at Xenia is its alignment. Originally the LM main curved north from the yards and went up the hill in Detroit Street toward Springfield. But when PRR affiliates and other roads reached Columbus, the LM partnered/took over the Columbus & Xenia, and then the main line ran Cincinnati-Morrow-Xenia-London-Columbus, running into the new Columbus Union Depot. Over the PRR years, three things happened: 1. The line became mileposted from Columbus to Cincinnati. The Dayton line west and the Springfield Branch (railroad east) each had a milepost zero at Xenia station. 2. At Xenia, this line from Columbus to Cincinnati became a straight two and three track R-O-W all the way through town. It's implied that, at the time this was done, the railroad to Cincinnati carried more traffic than the single track/minimally improved line that diverged toward Dayton. 3. In 1955, the line to Cincinnati was Main Line of the Cincinnati District, Buckeye Region. In 1956, it was one of the main lines of Buckeye Region, shown on an equal footing with the line west through Dayton to Indianapolis. But in later timetables, the main line runs Columbus-Dayton-Indianapolis. By 1970 (PC Southern Region TT 4), the Cincinnati line became the "C&X Branch", downgraded in favor of the NYC's line from Dayton to Cincinnati. First, much traffic still flowed Columbus-London-Xenia-Dayton-Cincinnati, especially westbounds because they weren't bothered by the stiff hill eastbound out of Dayton. Later, all the traffic went Columbus-London on the PRR side, and London-Springfield-Dayton-Cincinnati on the NYC side. This allowed eventual abandonment of all of the four legs of the Little Miami out of Xenia, and railroading there came to an end. PS: Wish I could find my copy of "Next Stop Xenia", published by the Greene County Historical Society. The move still has the railroad stuff in a mess. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: nuts4prr@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 12:09:28 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re Ebay Alert Listers, I have just sent the following Pennsy Journals to eBay:- Vol. 1 No. 2 Spring 1981 Vol. 1 No. 3 Summer 1981 Vol. II No. 1 Winter 1982 Vol. II No. 2 Spring 1982 Vol. II No. 3 Summer 1982 Vol. III No. 1 Winter 1983 Vol. III No. 2 Spring 1983 Vol. III No. 3 Summer 1983 Vol. III No. 4 Fall 1983 Graeme Nitz An Aussie SPF Now Living in Tulsa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 19:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] TV Program Lists, I just saw an ad on WPXI Channel 11 in Pittsburgh. Seems they will be airing a show on Saturday at 7:00 PM about the Pennsylvania Railroad. Have no idea what it will contain but I am assuming it will be related to the Pittsburgh area. Unseen home movies? who knows?....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 20:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Wires still up in old Thorndale Yard. Greetings List, Yesterday,I rode the Strasburg Special out of 30th Street Station. I was quite surprised to see that most of the catenary in Thorndale Yard was still up after all these years. That was my first time back to Thorndale since the 1980s. Even the old "AC MOTOR STOP" signs are still in place. I'm going to go back out there and get some photos of all that wire. Maybe if I stand there long enough, a Tructrain will roll by with 3 E44s on the front end. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 21:21:27 -0400 From: "Michael A. Hmel" Subject: Fw: [PRR] TV Program ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: ; ; Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 7:52 PM Subject: [PRR] TV Program > Lists, > > I just saw an ad on WPXI Channel 11 in Pittsburgh. Seems they will > be airing a show on Saturday at 7:00 PM about the Pennsylvania Railroad. > Have no idea what it will contain but I am assuming it will be related > to the Pittsburgh area. Unseen home movies? who knows?....Gary Hey Guys , I looked in the Pittsburgh TV Week Magazine and the program is listed as " Railroad Special " with no other description . Time is as Gary mentioned 7:00 pm on WPXI , Pittsburgh NBC affiliate ( Channel 11 ). Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 21:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Wires Still Up in old Thorndale Yard Hello List, Can anyone tell me if "THORN" tower on the ex-PRR mainline is still active? I couldn't tell from the train yesterday. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 22:24:00 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] TV Program Greetings to Gary, Michael and the List: The subject of this TV report is, according to WPXI-TV reporter Brian Leopold, Altoona and the Horseshoe Curve specifically, and, to a lesser extent, the PRR generally. Brian and a cameraman were in Altoona and at the Curve Aug. 27-28 to film and conduct interviews. Interviewed were Cummins McNitt, director of the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum, and retired PRR engineman Bill Haxel, among others. Brian is a fan/former model railroader, and knew the right questions to ask, so I have a lot of confidence that this will rise considerably above those often-seen-on-TV Clueless/Waste of Time segments. Hope this helps. Dan Cupper ------------------------------------------ Gary Mittner wrote: > > Lists, > > I just saw an ad on WPXI Channel 11 in Pittsburgh. Seems they will > be airing a show on Saturday at 7:00 PM about the Pennsylvania Railroad. > Have no idea what it will contain but I am assuming it will be related > to the Pittsburgh area. Unseen home movies? who knows?....Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 19:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] TV Program Lists, I just saw an ad on WPXI Channel 11 in Pittsburgh. Seems they will be airing a show on Saturday at 7:00 PM about the Pennsylvania Railroad. Have no idea what it will contain but I am assuming it will be related to the Pittsburgh area. Unseen home movies? who knows?....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 00:01:30 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] not Pennsy BUT Hi All, I have been sent a website that contains over 6000 official vintage N & W photos on it. That is the good news. The bad news is it is not searchable for content or subject. I wish it was Pennsy an I had a cable modem!! http://worf.cc.vt.edu/cgi-bin/imagebase/pub_browse?collection_id=ns&place=0 Enjoy! Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] not Pennsy BUT Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 00:01:30 -0400 Hi All, I have been sent a website that contains over 6000 official vintage N & W photos on it. That is the good news. The bad news is it is not searchable for content or subject. I wish it was Pennsy an I had a cable modem!! http://worf.cc.vt.edu/cgi-bin/imagebase/pub_browse?collection_id=ns&place=0 Enjoy! Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] Tichy G30 Kit Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 00:31:04 -0400 I purchased one of the Tichy G30 kits a few months ago, and I was wondering if the trucks included in the kit are correct. According to Rob's site PRR G30 362844 was delivered with 2E-F19 Barrett-Whitehead trucks. I checked Richard Burg's article in the June 1993 issue of Model Railroading, but he only covered 50 Ton trucks. Does anyone know if the trucks supplied with the kit are 2E-F19, and if not where I can get a pair of the correct trucks. Thanks for any help. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JM_CASSATT_JR@webtv.net (Jim Cassatt,Jr) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 06:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 09/10/01 Thorndale is an active 24 hour 7 day a week tower. Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 04:26:53 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] TV Program --- Dan Cupper wrote: > Greetings to Gary, Michael and the List: > > The subject of this TV report is, according to > WPXI-TV reporter Brian > Leopold, Altoona and the Horseshoe Curve > specifically, and, to a lesser > extent, the PRR generally. I wonder, is this the same program which is supposed to air on WJAC-TV (Johnstown) at 7:30 pm September 15th? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:37:08 -0400 Subject: [PRR] More Questions About VIEW Interlocking From: Jerry Britton My initial readings in "Triumph IV" (shipped last week) has spawned a few new questions about VIEW interlocking at Duncannon, Pa.: 1) One shot, dated 1964, shows the present day bridge of state routes 11 & 15 behind the tower. The bridge looks fairly new...what you can see of it. Does anyone know when this highway bridge was constructed? More importantly (for me), was it after 1954? I am 95% certain it would have been. 2) An early valuation photo shows the tower in its typical lapboard siding. The 1964 photos shows it with brick sheathing having been installed. Anyone know when the brick sheathing was installed overtop/in place of the previous facade? Again, I am concerned about 1954. At the Northern Central Chapter meeting yesterday, most felt the brick sheathing applications started in the late 1950's, if not the early 1960's. Overall, I was disappointed with the coverage "Triumph IV" gave to VIEW. Likewise, I felt there should have been more coverage of the Denholm coal wharf. There was very little. Same with track pans. Although the book does include a very good shot of the emergency water crane at Cove! ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "James L. McDaniel" Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:54:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] not Pennsy BUT Actually, it is searchable start at .... http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/testdata/nw/nw.html or http://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/search.php This are the N&W photo collections which were donated to the Newman Library at Virginia Tech along with most of the corporate papers of the predecessor lines of the N&W. Jim McDaniel, VT Class of 72, still searching down in Delmarva ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:54:48 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] not Pennsy BUT Actually, it is searchable start at .... http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/testdata/nw/nw.html or http://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/search.php This are the N&W photo collections which were donated to the Newman Library at Virginia Tech along with most of the corporate papers of the predecessor lines of the N&W. Jim McDaniel, VT Class of 72, still searching down in Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "James L. McDaniel" Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:04:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] not Pennsy BUT As a matter of fact, there are 14 PRR images at Virginia Tech (see previous post) http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/NS2624.jpeg for lines westerners http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1637.jpeg and closer to home: http://spec.lib.vt.edu./imagebase/spec/drake/full/DR059.JPG Jim McDaniel, located 6 miles from the last image ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:04:15 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] not Pennsy BUT As a matter of fact, there are 14 PRR images at Virginia Tech (see previous post) http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/NS2624.jpeg for lines westerners http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1637.jpeg and closer to home: http://spec.lib.vt.edu./imagebase/spec/drake/full/DR059.JPG Jim McDaniel, located 6 miles from the last image ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Wires Still Up in old Thorndale Yard Date: Mon, 10 Sep 101 09:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art scribit: > > Can anyone tell me if "THORN" tower on the ex-PRR mainline is still > active? I couldn't tell from the train yesterday. Oui, absolutement. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:16:03 -0400 Subject: [PRR] 2002 Convention From: Jerry Britton Seems a bit early to report on, but Al Buchan has been hard at work organizing the sessions for next Spring's convention. At yesterday's Northern Central Chapter meeting, Society BoD member Ivan Franz related some of the "definite" sessions. The lead session will be a "don't miss". Dan Cupper will be doing the Thursday evening session on the Rockville Bridge, which celebrates its 100th anniversary this coming March. I know Dan has a ton of original builder's photos and has a book due out on the subject (Withers) so this will be one to see!!! Sessions on Metroliners and Gondolas are also in place. The session following the banquet will be on Lines West. At dinner, there will be a display of the "20 greatest photos of the PRR", including those from Don Wood and Bob Malinoski. The term "raffle" was mentioned in the same paragraph!!! Heck, I usually don't salivate until the convention is six months out. Got an early start this time 'round! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 13:38:17 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Liberty Limited Auction From: Jerry Britton Yesterday was the liquidation auction of the Northern Central Railway, Inc., which operated the Liberty Limited Dinner Train out of New Freedom, Pa. I was the low spender, $3.87, for "junk" for my kids who were along for the excitement. Ken Bitten, owner of the corporation, repurchased most of the restaurant equipment, skirting the legal system and paving the way (inexpensively!) to set up his next venture, wherever that is! The Northern Central caboose, origination unknown, went for $5K. Many of the passenger cars were leased so they were either not for sale, or had reserves that were not met. Bidding went to $8,500 on a diner, but it was below reserve. The NCRy-owned cars went by absolute auction and there were some deals to be had. There were two hopper cars that went for $300 and $275. Heck, people spend more than that on brass models!!! There were several LIRR coaches that went real cheap. One configured as a Bar car went for under $800. Another set up as a Parlor went for around $1,200. Unreal!!! The Catulpa Falls, the PS6L mid-train lounge from the Broadway Limited was on-site, but not for sale. This car is privately owned. She still bears her original partitions inside, but really needs some TLC. She would beautiful if restored. Other than the TOWER cars, the FALLS cars are probably the ideal cars for restoration, given the amount of open area and the number of bedrooms. Auction lasted about 4.5 hours. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 19:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Wires Still Up in Old Thorndale Yard I'll take your advice and check out the high bridge at Downingtown. Rumor has it that the bridge may have to be replaced or reenforced if NS rebuilds the P&T Branch. The last days Conrail was using it, the trains were down to about 25-30mph. The video tape: Pennsy Steam & Electric Years Vol. 2 has some great shots of P5s,GG1s, and E44s crossing the bridge at 60mph. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:57:08 EDT Subject: [PRR] CLAGG and PRR's Ohio River crossing at Louisville In a message dated 9/9/01 6:26:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: << Gentlemen, there is an ex-PRR tower in the middle of nowhere that is beckoning to me. After reviewing Jon Roma's list of still-open towers, I strongly believe that this and HN Cabin are the only operating PRR towers outside of the NY area that I have not yet visited. Can we get any info on this puppy? When is it open? What day could we pick to meet in Looweevul to check it out? -- Mark >> Mark, Problematical. CLAGG tower is now operated by the Louisville & Indianapolis RR, a short line running the ex-PRR trackage here. I'm told the operator appears from across the river (Indiana) when there's rail traffic that requires lowering the drawspan. I've also heard eighth-hand that railfans are not that welcome (not necessarily characteristic of the L&I). Back when this bridge was PC, the CLAGG operator told me that as far as he was concerned, he worked for the railroad, and the normal position of the bridge was DOWN -- if the machinery died, the railroad would still be able to run. But in the years since, rail traffic across that bridge has decreased even more than barge traffic under it (less coal on the river, and less interchange to the railroad since the CSX merger put the L&N and the B&O together). I know from experience that the normal position of the PRR draw is now UP. You can see it up whenever you're close to the river; in fact I was within view at dinner last night across the river in Jeffersonville IN. That way, the Corps of Engineers, operator of the locks and dam here, and their clients/users, the river traffic, don't carp about having to wait for it to be raised. Some of you interested in PRR signaling will remember that the doubletrack PRR on both sides of the Ohio River here at Louisville were connected by an "island of CTC" several miles long. Once upon a time, trains in and out of Louisville plus transfers and light engines meant about 200 moves a day through CLAGG interlocking. PRR's 14th Street engine terminal was immediately adjacent to CLAGG on the riverbank, so close that some tail track moves of light engines required going out on the drawspan. PRR's passenger trains had long since moved to Louisville Union Station, over a mile south, and PRR's freights used Jeffersonville (IN) Yard, some distance north of the bridge, but the power still had to come to 14th Street for servicing through the 50's. Watch coming Keystones for Jack Fravert pix of 14th Street in steam, and later maybe some glimpses of CLAGG. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cobrandt@eclipse.net Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 23:21:18 +400 Subject: [PRR] Train Sim GG-1 For those of you into Train Sim....... http://www.trainweb.org/columbusrr/clw/ They don't have a cab yet, it uses the Acela cab. The fly-bys are awesome. -- Chris Brandt http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Train Sim GG-1 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:14:51 -0400 A friend of mine uses the Japanese or Chinese electric cab because it looks old however when you look out the side window you see Japanese/Chinese writing. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: cobrandt@eclipse.net [mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 7:21 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Train Sim GG-1 For those of you into Train Sim....... http://www.trainweb.org/columbusrr/clw/ They don't have a cab yet, it uses the Acela cab. The fly-bys are awesome. -- Chris Brandt http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:23:04 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRR Diesel Pictorial Volume Six - EMD and Alco Freight Cab From: Jerry Britton Withers Publishing has released "Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial, Volume Six: EMD and Alco Freight Cab Units". Unlike its siblings in the series, this book is a whopping 120 pages... of mostly F units!!! More importantly, in reading the Acknowledgements, it is clear that Paul Withers is doing a good job of opening his projects to the public in order to get the content right! If only Barnard Roberts & Co., Morning Sun Books, and other publishers would do the same! A few of our listers are among the credits: Greg Martin, Dan Cupper, and Bill Volkmer. Sorry if I missed any others, but with 500 subscribers it's tough to tell who all is on board! Thank you all for your involvement in the project! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk 2002 Convention Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:30:18 -0400 Fellow PRR fans - Yes Jerry has hit the nail on the head. Things are moving well in planning for the 2002 annual meeting. I gave a preliminary report in the August e-NEWS (the PRRT&HS official monthly newsletter) and a further update during the 25 August quarterly board meeting. I will do a more comprehensive follow up in the October e-NEWS. I am skipping posting anything specific about the meeting agenda in the September e-NEWS as it will contain a comprehensive report on the August board meeting. I wanted to get the word out on the program as early as possible to give folks a sufficient amount of time to have a chance to be able to plan their attendance. Lots of things are happening and I am pleased that we have the e-NEWS venue in which to report them and keep you all abreast of the administrative comings and goings of our Society. If you are not a subscriber of e-NEWS yet I advise you to become one. Simply send a blank message to: PRRTHSe-NEWS-subscribe@yahoogroups.com The September edition with news of the August board meeting will be released on the normal distribution date, the third Friday of the month - 21 September 2001. Al -Editor e-NEWS and 2002 Program Chairman ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:36:27 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: Operations Suspended or Limited in Northeast From: Jerry Britton Due to the terrorism in New York and Washington, NS has suspended service (former PRR/Conrail lines). See official release below. On 9/11/01 1:18 PM, NS.Service.Alert@nscorp.com (NS.Service.Alert@nscorp.com) wrote: > Norfolk Southern Service Alert > > Operations Suspended or Limited in Northeast > > September 11, 2001 > > In cooperation with local and federal authorities and agencies, Norfolk > Southern has temporarily suspended operations in the North Jersey shared > asset area. Operations are also suspended or very limited along most of > the northeastern corridor, including Washington, Baltimore, > Philadelphia, New York, Newark and the Delmarva Peninsula. Customers > with traffic moving from, to, or through these areas should expect > delays. > > Norfolk Southern continues to monitor its operations in this region and > will provide updates as necessary. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:23:46 EDT From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Wow - Dayton Xenia & Belpre/Little Miami Rick Tipton wrote: Tom, You continue to astound me, as I hadn't picked up on the DX&B being the B&O Wellston subdivision predecessor east/southeast of Xenia. Rightly or wrongly, I associate DX&B with the PRR's 16-mile line between Xenia and Dayton. That would certainly explain why the B&O track ran along the south boundary of the PRR Xenia station property, and broke southeast at the PRR freight house in the direction of Washington Court House. Did this line to Washington Court House line up well with the PRR/DX&B? alignment coming in from Dayton and Trebein? Obviously, at one time it would have - the Dayton line had quite a curve to get it behind the passenger station (old or "new") and to its connection with the Little Miami's "C&X" line from Xenia to Columbus. The Wellston Sub ran east from the PRR's (eventually PO&D) Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern (originally Dayton, Lebanon & Cincinnati RR & Terminal Co.) about half mile south of Clement Tower and yard on the PRR/Panhandle Dayton-Xenia Mainline at the top of the greater than one percent grade climbing out of the Great MIami River floodplain between Dutoit Street and Smithville Road. (Originally Clement was a helper track). The B&O and Pnahandle lines converged at Zimmerman in the heart of what today is the city of Beavercreek. from Zimmerman to east of Kilkare (now a race track but orignally a picnic grove known as Lucas Grove and then an amusement park carrying the KilKare name) just east of Trebein's and "Three bridges" (so calledbecause of the three side by side spans carrying the Panhandle, B&O Wellston Sub and the Dayton & Xenia Electric Railway Co. ( a traction line) across the LIttle MIami River between Trebein's and Alpha. At Kilkare a grade separation begins so that by Hawkins' Road on the eastern edge of KilKare park the B&O crossed the country road via a short span through girder span of less than 50' in length. This made for terrible visibiliity for northbound traffic turning off of Dayton-Xenia Road that would pass through the narrow bridge opening and then cross a heavily traveled class one mainline (that carried 23 named passenger trains in 1947. (Ineed. this was the scenario of the last fatal car-train crash on the old Panandle mainline in 1983. East of this dangerous grade crossing, both lines diverged slightly as the curved south. The B&O Wellston sub geenrally followed the west bank of Shawnee Creek between Towler Road and West Maket Street. Çrossing West Main and West Second Streets approximately two blocks west of the Panhandle main, the Wellston Sub crossed Bellbrook Avenue and then, in Xenia's lesser know section of street trackage, followed Charles Street through its curve to the east, across Cincininati Avenue to its crossing of the Panhandle Columbus-Cincinnati main at MIami Street that was guarded by XW Tower (Xenia West). The B&O then ran e-w on the southern edge of thre PRR yard and station tracks on a slightly descending grade between South West Street and South Detroit Street (US 68) so that it crossed Detroit Street on a grade crossing about a half block south of the Panhandle viaduct over Detroit Street. The B&O freight House and separate passenger station stood east of Detroit Street justy west of the point where the two lines sharply diverged (Panhandle NE to Columbus, B&O SE toward Jamestown & Washington Court House). I've not been able to ascertain Wellston Sub's route in Fayette County so the only comment I can make is that the Wellston subdivision was built shortly after the PRR acquired the completed by bankrupt Cincinnati & Muskingum Valley in 1869 as a stick (competing route from Trinway to Cincinnati known as the Zanesville branch) as leverage in its hostile 1869 takeover olf the Little Miami RR Co. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:14:21 -0400 From: Stephen S Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Train Sim GG-1 I just downloaded it - it looks good, but I would change the modern flashing rear end marker to the more traditional marker lamps on the corner posts.. Steve Bartlet Subject: Train Sim GG-1 From: Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 23:21:18 +400 For those of you into Train Sim....... http://www.trainweb.org/columbusrr/clw/ They don't have a cab yet, it uses the Acela cab. The fly-bys are awesome. -- Chris Brandt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:57:28 +1000 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: [PRR] Terrorism in America Dear Friends, It was with shock and a mounting horror that I witnessed the wanton destruction of lives and property in Lower Manhattan last night, our time. (Aust EST) I went to work this morning feeling absolutely numb. I work in the CBD (downtown) in Melbourne, Australia. I have never seen this city so quiet on a weekday. The people were there, as usual, but seemed to move almost in silence. The sense of shock, and unspoken sympathy, has permeated all corners of Melbourne. Our prayers and thoughts are with America today. God Bless you all, Mick Molloy Pennsy Australia's No:1 SPF ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:37:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: Re: [PRR] Terrorism in America Fellow listers, I visited NYC 2 months ago and the first things I saw during the landing at JFK were the Twin Towers. A few days later I was standing under them looking up and thinking about the unlimited possibilities there are in the USA. Now nothing is left of them and I shocked me and the Belgium people . Over here in Belgium there is only one topic on the streets, the papers and the extra news editions. Some rescue crews are now flying from Belgium to NYC or DC. Our sympathy is with you today and in the days to come. Geoffrey Van Dooren Belgium --- Mick Molloy wrote: > Dear Friends, > > It was with shock and a mounting horror that I > witnessed the wanton destruction of lives and > property > in Lower Manhattan last night, our time. (Aust EST) > > I went to work this morning feeling absolutely numb. > I work in the CBD (downtown) in Melbourne, > Australia. > I have never seen this city so quiet on a weekday. > The people were there, as usual, but seemed to move > almost in silence. > The sense of shock, and unspoken sympathy, has > permeated all corners of Melbourne. > > Our prayers and thoughts are with America today. > > God Bless you all, > > Mick Molloy > Pennsy > Australia's No:1 SPF > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Long distance tender Just viewed a video " Middle Division" PRR steam in the 40's and 50's. It showed a few K4's equipped with Long distance tenders. Does anyone know if any K4's with Long distance tenders saw service on the Pittsburgh Div.? Of what type of tender is this? Looks like the same one one the M1's.Yes, no, maybe?-Mark L ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:36:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Long distance tender Mark, Click here: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com/page2.html This is a photo file of the 10 K4's that had them. You will see several that was caught on film in Pittsburgh....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR red steam turbine Met a life time resident of Sidman, Pa last weekend.He told me that he remembers that sometime in the mid to late 1940's the Pennsy ran a steam turbine on the South Fork Branch. He told me it made a unique sound and was painted red. Anyone have a clue what loco he could be talking about? Mark L ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:37:51 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Long distance tender > Just viewed a video " Middle Division" PRR steam in the 40's and 50's. >It showed a few K4's equipped with Long distance tenders. Does anyone >know if any K4's with Long distance tenders saw service on the >Pittsburgh Div.? Of what type of tender is this? Looks like the same one >one the M1's.Yes, no, maybe?-Mark L Mark, Well, it depends, as there was more than one class of "long distance" or "coast to coast" tender. As I posted back in June, 1999: >Gary Mittner provided photo documentation for each of the 10 K4 >locomotives originally equipped with these tenders (1930's) Gary!>. I have listed that info below for your perusal. It was my casual >understanding from a passing reference in the Keystone that six of these >tenders were 21,000 gallons and four were 25,000 gallons. The photo >evidence appears to bear that out. Hopefully, I will be adding links to >these photos in the tender pages shortly. Please correct as you see fit. > >#3772, 250P75, riveted >#5341, 210P75, riveted >#5365, 210P75, riveted >#5385, 210P75, riveted >#5422, 210P75, riveted >#5432, 210P75, riveted >#5442, 210P75, riveted >#5453, 250P75, riveted * very first K4 to have one attached >#5493, 250P75, welded >#5495, 250P75, riveted Subsequently, the welded 250P75 appears to have been assigned to an M-1, #6940 and one of the riveted 250P75's was converted to a 250F82 and assigned to an I-1 as depicted in an HO Railworks release a few years ago (also seen in one of the Pennsy Power books. The riveted 210P75 is the same tender as applied to the M1. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Long distance tender Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:55:27 -0500 Hi Bruce--You wrote, in part: > > The riveted 210P75 is the same tender as applied to the M1. > I would like to amend your statement to read-- "The riveted 210F75 is the same tender class as applied to the M1a when built." Amazing as it sounds, the M1 originally had the relatively small 110P75. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:38:37 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Long distance tender Steve scriveth: >Hi Bruce--You wrote, in part: > >> >> The riveted 210P75 is the same tender as applied to the M1. >> >I would like to amend your statement to read-- >"The riveted 210F75 is the same tender class as applied to the M1a when >built." Since Steve is my source for much of what I know of these tenders, I plead nolo contendre ...I meant that "M1" to be generic (ie M1, M1a and M1b) since I believe that at least one member of each of those classes at one time or another hauled a 210F75. I'm not sure I did mess up on the "P" vs "F" designation, at least some of the 21,000 gallon tenders were painted in the passenger scheme leading me to think that they were originally 210P75. I need to go back to a few PRR forms to double check! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Long distance tender Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:56:55 -0500 Bruce--Right you are. In the fifties you could find any class of the large tenders on I1s, I1sa, M1, M1a, and M1b. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:32:50 -0400 Subject: [PRR] New Patriotic PRR Art From: Jerry Britton I've applied some of my restless energy over this week's events and composited two images to create a patriotic PRR image which is now on the main page of "Keystone Crossings"... http://kc.pennsyrr.com I hope you like it. Comments? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] New Patriotic PRR Art Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:00:50 -0400 I like it! Though it is interesting to think about how in the 40's we equated pollution (the smoke belching from the steel mills)with industrial might! Chris Chany PS Thanks to the kind words from our listers in Belgium and Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 2:33 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] New Patriotic PRR Art I've applied some of my restless energy over this week's events and composited two images to create a patriotic PRR image which is now on the main page of "Keystone Crossings"... http://kc.pennsyrr.com I hope you like it. Comments? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:30:04 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Patriotic Art -- Background From: Jerry Britton Some of our newer/less-studied -- absolutely no insult intended -- subscribers aren't picking up on the significance of the "patriotic art" (http://kc.pennsyrr.com) I mentioned a few moments ago. For many years, the PRR had a "calendar program" through which they commissioned a painter -- notably Grif Teller -- to paint an image to grace the wall calendars they gave out to customers each year. During the World War II era, a few painters other than Mr. Teller were involved. In 1943, Dean Cornwell painted "Serving the Nation", which featured a super-sized Uncle Sam pointing the way for PRR convoys of tanks and supplies heading toward ports to support the Allies. This painting was the basis for my new art. I removed portions of the sky and superimposed it over the NYC skyline. The implication, of couse, is that the events of this week have "awakened a sleeping giant" as the Japanese found out in WWII. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:17:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Friday September 14, 2001 Today was a day of mourning for 800 million peole in Europe and in the countries of the European Board. Here follows what happened in Belgium -until December 31 chairman of the European union. At 11.59.50 am sirens started shrieking. At 12.00 pm Belgium came to a stop. Every train and tram came to a full stop no matter what there location was. In factories, schools, malls, stores, on the streets,... peolpe stopped working or shopping and held 3 minutes of silence and serenity. At Brussels national airport there was silence and no activity. In the European heart of Brussels all offices were closed, officials, the prime minister, ministers and pedestrians were standing on the sidewalks in silence while traffic stopped. Radio and television stations didn't broadcast except for these images showing that we Europeans are standing behind you and that we feel what you feel. At 12.04 pm the 4 biggest radio stations in Belgium all played Imagine from John Lennon while television showed people giving hands and forming a line walking back to their offices. These images were verry emotional. September 11, 2001 didn't just change the US, it changed the whole world forever. Those 3 minutes are maybe not much but they had a bigger impact than words can do. On this moment 93 Belgium residents -who were near or in the WTC- are still missing. God bless you all. Geoffrey Van Dooren Belgium ===== __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Wires Still Up in old Thorndale Yard. Tommorrow, I'll be out on the ex-PRR main at Thorndale and Downingtown on the P&T Branch taking what I hope to be the "before" pictures of the Norfolk Southern (BNSF?) freight route. I need a break from the horror in NYC. I just need to go out there and remember my youth and think of the GG-1s,E33s,E44s, open autoracks, 40ft boxcars, TOFC with those drop frame trailers. Sitting at Whitford looking up at the massive flyover brings back a lot of memories. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] N & W Photos Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 09:52:34 -0400 Hi All, I am about 1/2 way through the N & W photos I mentioned last week http://worf.cc.vt.edu/cgi-bin/imagebase/pub_browse?collection_id=ns&place=0 There is some incredible stuff to see. I came across this back head shot that made me say (out loud) "what the.....?" http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/ns1007.jpeg Now you can say it too. There were a few PRR photos as previously mentioned. They are worth surfing through especially if you have a cable modem. If not, you can judge what the page has pretty quickly by the titles which load first. I would like to ask the technologically gifted on the list the following: Why do these photos have Jpeg in the address and the image properties, but when I "save picture as" they save as a bitmap? Can they somehow be converted to a Jpeg or a Tif file ? Please reply to billlane@snip.net Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] Tuesday Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 15:55:46 +0100 Like many in the UK, I watched with horror as the enormity of the attack on New York, Washington and Pittsburgh slowly sank in. I can only express my condolences and pray for the bereaved. As Geoffrey described for Belgium the UK fell silent for 3 minutes at 11am as a mark of respect. This was followed by the Queen leading a service of remberance at St. Paul's Cathedral. As far as I know the UK has some 500 of its citizens still missing in New York and is praying for the families of those who are missing of bereaved. Patrick Grace England ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 09:52:34 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] N & W Photos Hi All, I am about 1/2 way through the N & W photos I mentioned last week http://worf.cc.vt.edu/cgi-bin/imagebase/pub_browse?collection_id=ns&place=0 There is some incredible stuff to see. I came across this back head shot that made me say (out loud) "what the.....?" http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/ns1007.jpeg Now you can say it too. There were a few PRR photos as previously mentioned. They are worth surfing through especially if you have a cable modem. If not, you can judge what the page has pretty quickly by the titles which load first. I would like to ask the technologically gifted on the list the following: Why do these photos have Jpeg in the address and the image properties, but when I "save picture as" they save as a bitmap? Can they somehow be converted to a Jpeg or a Tif file ? Please reply to billlane@snip.net Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 17:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Crew Cars According to the NYNH&H Fall 1953 Train Consist book, The New Haven and Pennsylvania Railroads had two runs using through "crew" cars (between Boston, Mass. and Washington, D.C. using a NH crew car, and between Pittsburgh, Pa. and New Haven, Conn. using a PRR crew car). Can one assume (a dangerous word) that these "crew" cars were passenger-equipped (NH NE-2 and PRR N-5) cabooses/cabin cars? They were clearly identified as "Crew" cars, not "rider" coaches. ---Mark L--- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Crew Cars Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 22:12:04 -0400 Mark, Since Bowser sells N5 models in both PRR and NH with additional lettering for Railway Express Agency, I think that might be a fair assumption. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Lehman" To: Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 5:38 PM Subject: [PRR] Crew Cars > > According to the NYNH&H Fall 1953 Train Consist book, The New Haven and > Pennsylvania Railroads had two runs using through "crew" cars (between > Boston, Mass. and Washington, D.C. using a NH crew car, and between > Pittsburgh, Pa. and New Haven, Conn. using a PRR crew car). Can one > assume (a dangerous word) that these "crew" cars were passenger-equipped > (NH NE-2 and PRR N-5) cabooses/cabin cars? They were clearly identified > as "Crew" cars, not "rider" coaches. ---Mark L--- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] PRR Freight Car Trucks Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 22:44:03 -0400 I purchased one of the Tichy G30 kits a few months ago, and I was wondering if the trucks included in the kit are correct. According to Rob's site PRR G30 362844 was delivered with 2E-F19 Barrett-Whitehead trucks. I checked Richard Burg's article in the June 1993 issue of Model Railroading, but he only covered 50 Ton trucks. Does anyone know if the trucks supplied with the kit are 2E-F19, and if not where I can get a pair of the correct trucks. Thanks for any help. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Freight Car Trucks Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 23:33:21 -0400 I made a mistake the article on PRR Freight Car Trucks is by Martin Lofton, not Richard Burg. Sorry Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian J Carlson" To: "PRR Talk" Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 10:44 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR Freight Car Trucks > I purchased one of the Tichy G30 kits a few months ago, and I was wondering > if the trucks included in the kit are correct. According to Rob's site PRR > G30 362844 was delivered with 2E-F19 Barrett-Whitehead trucks. I checked > Richard Burg's article in the June 1993 issue of Model Railroading, but he > only covered 50 Ton trucks. Does anyone know if the trucks supplied with the > kit are 2E-F19, and if not where I can get a pair of the correct trucks. > Thanks for any help. > > Brian J Carlson > Cheektowaga NY > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 23:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Wires Still up in Thorndale Yard. Hello List. I went over to Thorndale Pa. to take photos of the catenary in the yard. I also got photos of THORN tower and the interlocking. Then I went to Whitford to take some photos of the 373ft. truss bridge and get some photos of the old P&T Branch right of way. All of the catenary poles are still in place. All of the wood planks and ties have been removed from the Whitford bridge so now you can't walk across it. I will post the pictures as soon as possible. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 08:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] L1 generator location Greetings, While I'm waiting for kitbashing material for my K4 coast to coast tender I decided to get started on one of my GHQ L1's. In researching the details I've noticed the L1's had their generators in different spots. either on top of the smokebox or on the front. What is the reasoning of the different generator locations? Were these locos built by different manufactures thus the different locations? which was the more prominent location?----Mark--- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] L1s generator Thanks for the info Bill. Were there any other 1947 L1s changes to consider? One photo I have shows a top view of the firebox. There are 3 round devices mounted on top of the firebox just forward of the cab roof. They almost look like coffee cans with over large lids. Any clue? ------------Mark---------- Bill wrote: What you are seeing is the results of a 1947 change that was done to virtually all PRR steam locomotives. The headlight and generator were swapped in position, and a chin plate added to the front of the smokebox resulting in the much-maligned "beauty treatment". The rationalle for this was the fact that as labor costs increased after the war, as well as an increased emphasis on saftey it was thought that it was too difficult to service the generator in it's old location atop the smokebox. So, in order to make servicing easier and then less expensive...remember in 1947 the diesel was begining to make it's full-scale appearance on the road, with it's resultant lower maintenance costs which caused the PRR to realize exactly how expensive it was to maintain a steam locomotive. Most locomotives were altered...a few (including a long-time L1s at Renovo) escaped the swap and retained their headlight as built. Bill Daniels (Mark Lehman) wrote:   Greetings, While I'm waiting for kitbashing material for my K4 coast to coast tender I decided to get started on one of my GHQ L1's. In researching the details I've noticed the L1's had their generators in different spots. either on top of the smokebox or on the front. What is the reasoning of the different generator locations? Were these locos built by different manufactures thus the different locations? which was the more prominent location?----Mark--- ---------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Fw: [PRR] L1 generator location Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:21:00 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Mahlkov" To: "Mark Lehman" Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] L1 generator location > Mark, > > The generator and headlight were transposed in the postwar "beauty > treatment" (sarcasm) program. The reason for this was that generators needed > far more maintenance than headlights, so were placed in a position where > maintenance was facilitated. Generators were a great problem at the end of > the steam era, often sidelining locomotives permanently after the > manufacturers ceased production of them. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Lehman" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 8:40 AM > Subject: [PRR] L1 generator location > > > > Greetings, While I'm waiting for kitbashing material for my K4 coast to > > coast tender I decided to get started on one of my GHQ L1's. In > > researching the details I've noticed the L1's had their generators in > > different spots. either on top of the smokebox or on the front. What is > > the reasoning of the different generator locations? Were these locos > > built by different manufactures thus the different locations? which was > > the more prominent location?----Mark--- > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Need to contact Carl Izzo, List, Anyone have the email address for Don Coulter of the Pittsburgh Chapter. I need to make contact. If so please have him email me off list. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] L1s at Strasburg Thanks to all the replied to my L1 questions. It's been suggested to pick a photo of an L1 in the right time period and model it. Maybe I can do one better.The RR museum in Strasburg has one and I live close. If I remember right it's #520 but for some reason I think that is not the original number. Can anyone tell me when 520 or what ever number it was went out of service? Thanks Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:52:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] L1s 520 Mark, list, L1s 520 has had her original number her entire life. She was built by Baldwin in December 1916 and dropped from PRR's roster in August 1957. I think PRR got their money's worth out of her during the 41 years she spent in revenue service. My pamphlet from RR Museum of PA is in storage, but I remember reading in it that she had a boiler explosion during WWII. She was rebuilt with a brand new boiler and a thorougly refurbished frame. Most L1s engines that were stoker fired had 90F75 tenders. L1s 520 has a 110P75a tender, number 6836, which was originally assigned to M1 6836. I copied her tender data when I visited in 1994. According to Keyser's article in the spring 1988 Keystone, there never was a 110F75 or 110F75a (there was a 110F82, but let's leave the decapods out of this for now). Even in freight service, these tenders apparently retained their passenger designation. My photos are in storage, so I can't say whether or not 520 has steam & signal lines (some L1s engines were so equipped for troop train service). Doug --- Mark Lehman wrote: > Thanks to all the replied to my L1 questions. It's > been suggested to > pick a photo of an L1 in the right time period and > model it. Maybe I can > do one better.The RR museum in Strasburg has one and > I live close. If I > remember right it's #520 but for some reason I think > that is not the > original number. Can anyone tell me when 520 or what > ever number it was > went out of service? Thanks Mark > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 08:37:59 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Attention Subscribers in the Armed Forces From: Jerry Britton Would subscribers to PRR-Talk, Conrail-talk, and Reading-talk who are in the armed forces please contact me off-list. We, as Americans, don't know what the future holds. I would like to develop a list (not the e-mail variety) of those in the field so that we might keep you in our thoughts. Please respond with branch of the military and assignment (general, e.g. U.S.S. Enterprise). Thank you and best wishes! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] L1 generator location Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 08:41:38 -0400 Hi Mark, The original "as Built" location for the turbo-generators on MOST Pennsy engines was on top of the smokebox, ahead of the stack. Exceptions would be classes J,S,T,etc. I'm not sure of the exact date, but probably during WW2, ease of maintenence became a priority, rather than estetic good looks. This is when the PRR decided to switch generator/headlamp locations and add the "chin" platform to the front of the smokebox for the electrician to more easily service the turbo. Many classes were effected, B,H,I,K,L,M,N, although not all engines of a class were converted, some retained the original configuration untill they were scrapped. Depending on the time period you are modeling, and/or the specific locomotive, you should check as many photo's as possible to determine that particular locomotive's configuration. Hope this helps. Buzz PRRT&HS #271 -----Original Message----- From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net [mailto:L1sDRIVER@webtv.net] Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 8:41 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] L1 generator location Greetings, While I'm waiting for kitbashing material for my K4 coast to coast tender I decided to get started on one of my GHQ L1's. In researching the details I've noticed the L1's had their generators in different spots. either on top of the smokebox or on the front. What is the reasoning of the different generator locations? Were these locos built by different manufactures thus the different locations? which was the more prominent location?----Mark--- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 08:43:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] L1s 520 Thanks for the info Doug and list. Looks like I need to go to Strasburg with my camera and tape measure. So #520 saw service till 57. Anyone know where? As far as the number it must be the K4 there that has had it's number changed. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] L1s 520 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 09:06:26 -0400 It was the Atlantic that got it's number changed to the Lindbergh Special engine #. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net [mailto:L1sDRIVER@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 8:44 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] L1s 520 Thanks for the info Doug and list. Looks like I need to go to Strasburg with my camera and tape measure. So #520 saw service till 57. Anyone know where? As far as the number it must be the K4 there that has had it's number changed. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tom Kane Subject: [PRR] Locomotive Use Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 06:47:27 -0700 Listeners: Is there an available reference describing what types of service locomotives (steam and diesel) were used. What I mean is, where would a GP7 be used vs an SD7? Or an RS3 vs an RSD4? Or an L1 vs an I1. I realize that everything depends on what year one is discussing. Can anyone help? Thomas M. Kane Consulting Systems Engineer Hitachi Data Systems Phone: 703-481-4273 FAX: 509-695-2591 Pager 800-PAGE-MCI PIN 1680533 Email: Tom.Kane@hds.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Locomotive Use Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 10:32:48 -0400 Tom, I also depends to a great extent what part of the PRR system the locomotive was used on. By 1960 especially, PRR tended to concentrate locomotives of certain manufacture in certain locations. Some steam locomotives, like the N1s Santa fe, saw service only on a very small part of the PRR system. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Kane" To: "PRR-Talk (E-mail)" Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:47 AM Subject: [PRR] Locomotive Use > Listeners: > > Is there an available reference describing what types of service locomotives > (steam and diesel) were used. What I mean is, where would a GP7 be used vs > an SD7? Or an RS3 vs an RSD4? Or an L1 vs an I1. I realize that everything > depends on what year one is discussing. Can anyone help? > > Thomas M. Kane > Consulting Systems Engineer > Hitachi Data Systems > Phone: 703-481-4273 > FAX: 509-695-2591 > Pager 800-PAGE-MCI PIN 1680533 > Email: Tom.Kane@hds.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:37:12 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] L1s 520 Greetings to Mark, Chris and the List: Two PRR steam locomotives in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania collection have been victims of PRR's well-intended but misguided effort to re-create history. All others carry their original road numbers. They are: * K4s 3750, which PRR in the mid-1950s renumbered to 1737 to masquerade as the first K4s. The museum has restored the original road number to this engine. * E7s 8063, which PRR in about 1948 renumbered to 7002 to masquerade as the original E2 of that number, reputed to have achieved a world speed record in 1905, which was scrapped in 1934. The museum has retained the 7002 road number on this engine, which at this point in time has worn that identity for far longer than it carried the 8063 number. Hope this is helpful. Dan Cupper Mark Lehman wrote: > > > Thanks for the info Doug and list. Looks like I need to go to Strasburg > with my camera and tape measure. So #520 saw service till 57. Anyone > know where? As far as the number it must be the K4 there that has had > it's number changed. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:43:18 -0400 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: Re: [PRR] Attention Subscribers in the Armed Forces Jerry, What you are asking for is, I believe, a violation of the military code of conduct. Military personnel are not allowed to give out where they are stationed; especially now. -=- Bob Colquitt Jerry Briton wrote: > > Would subscribers to PRR-Talk, Conrail-talk, and Reading-talk who are in the > armed forces please contact me off-list. > > We, as Americans, don't know what the future holds. I would like to develop > a list (not the e-mail variety) of those in the field so that we might keep > you in our thoughts. > > Please respond with branch of the military and assignment (general, e.g. > U.S.S. Enterprise). > > Thank you and best wishes! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:55:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Attention Subscribers in the Armed Forces From: Jerry Britton On 9/17/01 11:43 AM, Bob Colquitt (editor2@vaix.net) wrote: > What you are asking for is, I believe, a violation of the military > code of conduct. Military personnel are not allowed to give out where > they are stationed; especially now. News to me, but understood. "Merchandise Service" received an order from a regular customer on board the Enterprise and I thought -- perhaps -- it would be a nice idea to (though not published online) keep a list of subscribers that might come into harm's way. Thank you for this information. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 12:21:29 -0400 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] Attention Subscribers in the Armed Forces --On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 11:43 -0400 "Bob Colquitt" wrote: > What you are asking for is, I believe, a violation of the military > code of conduct. Military personnel are not allowed to give out where > they are stationed; especially now. Probably not, but it could certainly be considered For Official Use Only information not for public dissemination without a directive for release under the Freedom of Information Act if a specific duty station is mentioned. At any rate, if I was stationed "at sea" or "overseas" or "in Northern Virginia" that would be information that anyone to whom I sent a snail mail envelop would have access to. Vagel Keller MAJ, USA (Ret) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 12:51:21 EDT From: Rogteach@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Attention Subscribers in the Armed Forces Ladies and gentlemen, Let's not panic please. The "Code of Conduct" was established after the Korean War by Presidential Order to establish conduct of military personal in contact with the enemy on the battlefield or after their capture. It does not have anything to do with their mail. To insure the protection of our deployments, we use the system of APO and FPO addresses, which are fixed distribution points for personal mail which is then forwarded to the member, via military mail routes. There is no violation of military regulations or standing ordersd for members to provide their APO or FPO addesses to corrospondents. R. H. Kramer MAJ (ret) USAF ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 13:02:37 EDT Subject: [PRR] OT-D&S Hobbies I am unable to access the above website. I believe Dennis is on this list. Could he or someone else on the list give me an updated URL? Offlist, please. Thanks, Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:44:49 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] L1s 520 Folks, Let me remind you that there was an excellant article in Mainline Modeler based on the rebuild of the L-1 by our own Kris Kollar. It published in I believe January of 2000 and a similar online article is/was posted to the RPM website as well as my own. The article was more indepth, but the basics are on the websites. If you need Al Stump or myself can lend those out. Juat a little reminder... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jedalberg@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:35:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Attention Subscribers in the Armed Forces Military people are free to tell you what unit they are in, as well as where they are, within reason and considering security requirements. Some may not want to, at the moment. Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gene Deimling" Subject: RE: [PRR] L1s 520 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:54:04 -0700 Does anyone have a link to Greg Matin's website that he referenced. Thanks, Gene Deimling -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of TGREGMRTN@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 12:45 PM To: cupper@worldnet.att.net; l1sdriver@webtv.net Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] L1s 520 Folks, Let me remind you that there was an excellant article in Mainline Modeler based on the rebuild of the L-1 by our own Kris Kollar. It published in I believe January of 2000 and a similar online article is/was posted to the RPM website as well as my own. The article was more indepth, but the basics are on the websites. If you need Al Stump or myself can lend those out. Juat a little reminder... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] L1s 520 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:20:47 -0500 Gene--For Greg Martin try: http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/beautiful/819/TGM_Corn.htm Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 02:46:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Attention Subscribers in the Armed Forces From: "M. E Allen" Bob, et alia; For a member of the Armed Services, Active or Reserve, to acknowledge being in the Armed Services or to tell there friends, corespondents etc that they have been activated and how to reach them is not only not a violation of the Code of Conduct but expected. At my last command one of the admin head aches was making sure that everyone's personal mobilization book was up to date. This was a pocket calendar sized folder that had every piece of useful personal data you could imagine [bank accounts, insurance policies et cetera] and the means for the next-of-kin / significant other to make contact. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying " I'm in the Army at Fort Lewis" or "I'm in the Navy at Johnsville" or even "I'm going to be away for a while". There can be some very reasonable limitations on what you say about the details of why, where, and when you're away. Any of you who are going away, for God's sake, stay in touch and if you can let us know. As one who has gone away on occasion [and in fact only hung up my uniform last March after twenty-five years, four months, and three days USA and USAR combined] believe me, any contact with reality and sanity helps. On a more personal note, I have spent most of the last week in a uniform that I'm amazed still fits dealing with some of the logistical aspects of digging out of the tragedy. I am amazed and gratified by the resources that were made available, often at some cost to the offerer, and how much was available that wasn't needed. Jerry, your modification of the sleeping giant painting was most apt. Thank you. Mike Allen On Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:43:18 -0400 Bob Colquitt writes: > > Jerry, > What you are asking for is, I believe, a violation of the military code of conduct. Military personnel are not allowed to give out where they are stationed; especially now. > -=- Bob Colquitt > > Jerry Briton wrote: > > > > Would subscribers to PRR-Talk, Conrail-talk, and Reading-talk who are in the armed forces please contact me off-list. > > > > We, as Americans, don't know what the future holds. I would like to develop list (not the e-mail variety) of those in the field so that we might keep you in our thoughts. > > > > Please respond with branch of the military and assignment (general, e.g. U.S.S. Enterprise). > > > > Thank you and best wishes! > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > For brass collectors... > > http://www.brasstrains.net > > Free serving of railroad web sites... > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:37:47 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Legendary EMD engineer died There is a half page obituary today in the Chicago Tribune that Max Ephraim died. Max was the lead engineer on the design of the GP7 and GP9. He later rose to chief engineer at EMD. The obit. is very accurate and cites the GP's as revolutionary and historically significant. Since the PRR had so many GP9's I thought somebody might want to know. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:30:40 -0400 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - Please Contribute Plea from Listmaster From: Jerry Britton I am asking all DSOP.COM list subscribers to please consider providing financial support to one of the many organizations that is hard at work in New York City and Washington, D.C. They are currently affected; tomorrow it may be you in need. If you have no preference, may I suggest the "September 11th Fund", set up by the New York City Chapter of the United Way. You may donate very easily online by visiting http://september11fund.org/ Many months ago Morning Sun Books came out with a book titled "New York Harbor Railroads In Color Volume 1". I had never purchased a copy for myself, but when I recently ordered a copy for a customer, I ordered in a copy for "demo" use. By chance, the first page I opened to was one of the south end of Manhattan, circa 1957. It really struck me that in the time since that photo was taken and now, an engineering marvel of the world was both constructed and destroyed. Unbelievable! Please, donate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Listmaster ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:57:08 -0400 From: Thomas Mahon Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT - Please Contribute Plea from Listmaster Thanks for the note. My wife is a psychologist and she is on assignment with the Red Cross in Newark. She's been assigned to the Port Authority who have over 350 people missing from their operations in, around and under the building. Tom Mahon Jerry Britton wrote: > I am asking all DSOP.COM list subscribers to please consider providing > financial support to one of the many organizations that is hard at work in > New York City and Washington, D.C. They are currently affected; tomorrow it > may be you in need. > > If you have no preference, may I suggest the "September 11th Fund", set up > by the New York City Chapter of the United Way. You may donate very easily > online by visiting > > http://september11fund.org/ > > Many months ago Morning Sun Books came out with a book titled "New York > Harbor Railroads In Color Volume 1". I had never purchased a copy for > myself, but when I recently ordered a copy for a customer, I ordered in a > copy for "demo" use. > > By chance, the first page I opened to was one of the south end of Manhattan, > circa 1957. It really struck me that in the time since that photo was taken > and now, an engineering marvel of the world was both constructed and > destroyed. Unbelievable! > > Please, donate! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Listmaster > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [AD] Re: [PRR] OT-D&S Hobbies Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:51:49 -0400 Bob, List, Actually, the web site was up and available, you just couldn't resolve to it. Our web site is the same (http://www.onerrave.com). We just changed DSL vendors. Network Solutions changed to the new IP's this morning. We should be back to normal within a day or two. Dennis mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com Featuring over 10,000 IN-STOCK model railroad items 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] L1 article Greetings Gene ,Steve, and list. I'd sure like to read this L1 article but I can't seem to find it! Found Greg's site OK but can't find the L1 goodies. What am I missing?? Greg ,Help!!!! --------Mark L-------. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:22:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Bitmap conversion Hi All, I would like to thank all of you who replied to my question about converting a bitmap to a jpeg for the N & W photos. I purchased a program at the suggestion of one of the many nice respondents. This is what email lists like this are all about! Thanks Again, Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Railfan Guide Greetings list. I put this web page together for those attending Altoona's Railfest and are not familar with the area. http://community-2.webtv.net/L1sDRIVER/HorseshoeCurve/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:17:52 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] L1 article... special one time deal Hey Yuze Gize... Mark wrote.. <> I realize that there has been several folks out there that might have missed the two issues in Mainline Modeler that covered Kris Kollar's well presented modeling articles of the Bowser L-1, and I trust that your local dealer sold out of them? So, if you would appreciate copies of the back issues at a special cost of... zero--plus freight... please let me know as Bob has made me a promise to supply me with enough copies to cover a ONE TIME shippment to THIS LIST ONLY! One copy per interested party only. The article is easily translated to N Scale as well. Hundman Publishing will send me enough copies to cover exactly what I ask for ONCE! So I need to know who needs a copy for their library, please advise me by SEPTEMBER 26th, 2001 NO LATER. I will get you the shipping cost in the next couple of days for a 1st Class delivery and the cost of an envelope. Remember, I am sending these things from my home. This has nothing to do with Hundman Publishing just a relationship agreement be his list. Any interested hobby shops are welcome to a single set of "shop copies" if you you would like. Kris's work is a testimony to how well this list works for modeling... It made into a great model of Museum Quality... AGAIN Kris GREAT JOB! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:24:49 -0400 (EDT) From: chaslett@cse.l-3com.com Subject: [PRR] Railfest '01 Hi to all, As Jerry mentioned several days ago, I am willing to help coordinate a get together of some type for all the PRR-Talk & Conrail-Talk folks who are going to Railfest this year. In the past, we have had dinner together Saturday evening and I have also provided maps or directions on Saturday morning right outside the Museum. Anyone interested in a get-together this year, whether at a dinner or even just congregating at a certain time in or around the Museum, or to watch a PRR-headed excursion arrive or depart, send me back an e-mail to let me know what day (days) you are planning to attend. If there is interest, I'll see what we can do, and also see if local lister Drew McGhee can give us a hand again with dinner plans. Please reply DIRECTLY TO ME! Thanks, Carl Haslett chaslett@CSE.L-3Com.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Guide Hello List, I just wanted something to Mark's Horseshoe webpage. There is a nice place to take photos from the opposite side of the park at Horseshoe. The old Glen White Branch connection to the mainline is a good spot to take photos from. One way to get there is to hop the fence at the park. (Oh Well) Or you could walk the old right of way in from the road that goes underneath the Curve. That takes about 25 mins. DO NOT try to drive your little front wheel drive car up to MG Tower. If you get stuck, you are on your own. An SUV is a safe bet. The road to MG is VERY steep. It was widen about two years ago. Last year MG Tower was still there but now it's boarded up. A lot has change since the first time I went in the Penn Central era. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:24:45 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Guide Hello List, Not wanting to be a spoilsort, I still think that all of you should know that TRESPASSING on NS property is just the thing that could cause this year's event not to be repeated in the future and possibly subject the trespassers to detention by the police. The operating problems of this years trains required a good feal of forebarance by NS, and if the right of way is overrun by trespassers they surely will not be happy with the additional exposure that they face with respect to liability for someone else's stupidity. In this country anyone can SUE. I think that people who want to view the train should do so from publically accessed property and not from property owned by NS. It will only take one incident to have NS's hospitality considered history! Remember their STEAM program? Respect their property and the rights of other people who want to view the train as well as the need of the Altoona museum to use this event to raise some money. Considering what has just happened, money raising will become very difficult and the museum needs this type of an event as an annual stimulus and fund raiser. Thanks, Bennett Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art wrote: > > Hello List, > > I just wanted something to Mark's Horseshoe webpage. > > There is a nice place to take photos from the opposite side of > the park at Horseshoe. The old Glen White Branch connection to the > mainline is a good spot to take photos from. One way to get there is to > hop the fence at the park. (Oh Well) Or you could walk the old right of > way in from the road that goes underneath the Curve. That takes about 25 > mins. > DO NOT try to drive your little front wheel drive car up to MG > Tower. If you get stuck, you are on your own. An SUV is a safe bet. The > road to MG is VERY steep. It was widen about two years ago. Last year MG > Tower was still there but now it's boarded up. A lot has change since > the first time I went in the Penn Central era. > Dave > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hanel29@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] L1 article... special one time deal Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 01:38:59 +0000 Greg - Please count me in for one each of the MM copies. Let me know my share of the costs so I can get it to you. Thank you for your kind offer to help. We need more like you on this earth.My snail-mail address is: Henry Englisch 29 Hickory Drive Quarryville, PA 17566-9498 > Hey Yuze Gize... > > Mark wrote.. > > < can't seem to find it! Found Greg's site OK but can't find the L1 goodies. What > am I missing?? > Greg ,Help!!!! > --------Mark L-------.>> > > I realize that there has been several folks out there that might have missed the > two issues in Mainline Modeler that covered Kris Kollar's well presented > modeling articles of the Bowser L-1, and I trust that your local dealer sold out > of them? So, if you would appreciate copies of the back issues at a special cost > of... zero--plus freight... please let me know as Bob has made me a promise to > supply me with enough copies to cover a ONE TIME shippment to THIS LIST ONLY! > One copy per interested party only. The article is easily translated to N Scale > as well. Hundman Publishing will send me enough copies to cover exactly what I > ask for ONCE! So I need to know who needs a copy for their library, please > advise me by SEPTEMBER 26th, 2001 NO LATER. I will get you the shipping cost in > the next couple of days for a 1st Class delivery and the cost of an envelope. > Remember, I am sending these things from my home. This has nothing to do with > Hundman Publishing just a relationship agreement be > his list. Any interested hobby shops are welcome to a single set of "shop > copies" if you you would like. Kris's work is a testimony to how well this list > works for modeling... It made into a great model of Museum Quality... AGAIN > Kris GREAT JOB! > > Greg Martin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 17:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Guide DO NOT TRESPASS. If NS has the area posted STAY OFF. I stated this several times on my web page. Don't even think of hopping the fence at the curve!!! There is only going to be a few hundred people there and you will get busted instantly. There are plenty of spots to railfan that are safe and not on NS property. I spent 3 weekends there documenting these spots. Like Bennet said lets not ruin it for future events. I hope I did not make a mistake creating a rail fan guide for the East slope. Mark L ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 17:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Altoona Museum meeting Is anyone on the list a member of the RR museum and attending this weekends meeting? Mark L. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:42:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona Museum meeting In a message dated 9/20/01 5:34:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, L1sDRIVER@webtv.net writes: << Is anyone on the list a member of the RR museum and attending this weekends meeting? >> Member of the friends - but this is football season! RR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 20:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Guide Hey Mark and List. Another place to watch to trains is Huntingdon Pa. It's about 40 mins from Altoona. Nice "S" curve and HUNT tower is still there. Most trains roll through at 60mph. There is a grade crossing and a talking detector. HUNT tower will probaly be open for the Railfest weekend. I think the East Broad Top is having a open house too. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 20:41:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Guide In a message dated 9/20/01 5:27:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: << Hey Mark and List. Another place to watch to trains is Huntingdon Pa. It's about 40 mins from Altoona. Nice "S" curve and HUNT tower is still there. Most trains roll through at 60mph. There is a grade crossing and a talking detector. HUNT tower will probaly be open for the Railfest weekend. I think the East Broad Top is having a open house too. Dave >> I highly recomend a visit to Hunt Tower if its open. You can sit up there and watch trains approach and race by bellow you from the open windows of the tower. Really nice!! The attendants that man the tower have always been real nice . The last time I was there the attendant was a fomer PRR man with some great stories! Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 21:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Guide/HUNT Tower Jon,List I stayed in Huntingdon last year for the Railfest. All the rooms in Altoona were sold out. At first I was upset, but once I got there, I had a good time. I didn't get much sleep because of the non stop parade of trains all night. I met an old PRR enginman who started in 1941 and told me some get stories about Middle Division. Friday afternoon(Oct 5th), I and some fellow PRR "foamers" (a new term I just learned from B. Levin) with be in Huntingdon getting a few photos. Getting back to Altoona, all the rooms are sold out again. Anyone who is looking for a hotel, you better try Huntingdon, Breezewood,or Bedford (Pa. Turnpike). Those rooms are going quick also due to the running of the PRR E8s at the Railfest. Even the little hotels (The WYE Motel) are sold out in Altoona. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:11:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Guide/HUNT Tower In a message dated 9/20/01 6:30:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: << Getting back to Altoona, all the rooms are sold out again. Anyone who is looking for a hotel, you better try Huntingdon, Breezewood,or Bedford (Pa. Turnpike). Those rooms are going quick also due to the running of the PRR E8s at the Railfest. Even the little hotels (The WYE Motel) are sold out in Altoona. Dave >> Dave And List, Yes Altoona is booked as well as outlying towns. I was lucky to get booked at The Wye Motor Lodge just in time. Another reason for the lack of rooms is Penn State is playing a home game that weekend as well ! ! Go Lions ! ! ! Jon S. PRRTH&S #3079 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:29:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Talasco Subject: [PRR] PRR Express Reefers Hello Everyone, I am looking to scratchbuilde some express reefers in O Scale. Can anyone direct me to a source for scale drawings of the PRR Express Reefers such as the R50? Thanks!! Fred ===== Field Musick of His Majesty's 64th Regt. of Foot __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] L1 article... special one time deal Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:40:48 -0400 Although I certainly appreciate all the glowing comments I believe the crapp-ola is getting a little bit deep. I must run to the closet and put my hip waders on. I certainly would not call my endeavors museum quality, I've seen many other modeler's work that is better than mine. Never-the-less thanks for the comments. I really will get my K4 article done some day. I just re-decaled the numbers on it last night. Thanks to Gary Mittner and his expertise, my first uneducated attempt at choosing a prototypical number to match my era and loco details was wrong. I ended up scraping off the first numbers I put on and re-numbered my K4 #5349 last evening. I touched up the dull coat finish tonight and hope to get a little weathering done this weekend. Lesson learned. Contact someone who knows what their talking about before you begin a project since you can save yourself allot of trouble and wasted effort. Thanks Gary! Any work on my models has come to an almost complete stand still since I'm in the military and my unit has seen a flurry of activity since last Tuesday... another day that will live in infamy. God Bless the USA, God Bless President Bush and God Bless your troops that are about to go into harm's way. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] L1 article... special one time deal > Greg - Please count me in for one each of the MM copies. > Let me know my share of the costs so I can get it to you. > Thank you for your kind offer to help. We need more like > you on this earth.My snail-mail address is: > > Henry Englisch > 29 Hickory Drive > Quarryville, PA 17566-9498 > > Hey Yuze Gize... > > > > Mark wrote.. > > > > < > can't seem to find it! Found Greg's site OK but can't find the L1 goodies. What > > am I missing?? > > Greg ,Help!!!! > > --------Mark L-------.>> > > > > I realize that there has been several folks out there that might have missed the > > two issues in Mainline Modeler that covered Kris Kollar's well presented > > modeling articles of the Bowser L-1, and I trust that your local dealer sold out > > of them? So, if you would appreciate copies of the back issues at a special cost > > of... zero--plus freight... please let me know as Bob has made me a promise to > > supply me with enough copies to cover a ONE TIME shippment to THIS LIST ONLY! > > One copy per interested party only. The article is easily translated to N Scale > > as well. Hundman Publishing will send me enough copies to cover exactly what I > > ask for ONCE! So I need to know who needs a copy for their library, please > advise me by SEPTEMBER 26th, 2001 NO LATER. I will get you the shipping cost in > > the next couple of days for a 1st Class delivery and the cost of an envelope. > > Remember, I am sending these things from my home. This has nothing to do with > > Hundman Publishing just a relationship agreement be > > his list. Any interested hobby shops are welcome to a single set of "shop > > copies" if you you would like. Kris's work is a testimony to how well this list > > works for modeling... It made into a great model of Museum Quality... AGAIN > > Kris GREAT JOB! > > > > Greg Martin > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Express Reefers Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:10:19 -0400 Fred, If you find a source please let me know. I'm looking for drawings of the Pennsy P70fbr coach for the same reason. Thanks. Buzz PRRT&HS #271 -----Original Message----- From: Fred Talasco [mailto:towrowrow@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 10:30 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] PRR Express Reefers Hello Everyone, I am looking to scratchbuilde some express reefers in O Scale. Can anyone direct me to a source for scale drawings of the PRR Express Reefers such as the R50? Thanks!! Fred ===== Field Musick of His Majesty's 64th Regt. of Foot __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:08:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Guide/HUNT Tower From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" I'm a Friend of the Museum also, but I'm too damn far away to hop up there for a get together. I hope you guys who have the good fortune to visit with these ex-PRR trainmen have tape recorders and/or camcorders with you. Only one person hearing these stories is not the way to record history. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- >From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) >To: >Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Guide/HUNT Tower >Date: Thu, 20 Sep, 2001, 20:21 > > > Jon,List > > I stayed in Huntingdon last year for the Railfest. All the rooms > in Altoona were sold out. > At first I was upset, but once I got there, I had a good time. I didn't > get much sleep because of the non stop parade of trains all night. I met > an old PRR enginman who started in 1941 and told me some get stories > about Middle Division. > Friday afternoon(Oct 5th), I and some fellow PRR "foamers" (a new > term I just learned from B. Levin) with be in Huntingdon getting a few > photos. > Getting back to Altoona, all the rooms are sold out again. Anyone > who is looking for a hotel, you better try Huntingdon, Breezewood,or > Bedford (Pa. Turnpike). Those rooms are going quick also due to the > running of the PRR E8s at the Railfest. > Even the little hotels (The WYE Motel) are sold out in Altoona. > Dave > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Express Reefers Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:19:39 -0400 When I built mine, I used the drawings located in the "Pennsylvania Railroad Heavyweight Passenger Equipment Plan and Photo Book" published by N.J. International, Inc. 1984. Some people say that these drawings aren't accurate, but what's a few scale inches at a three foot viewing distance in a moving train? I like accuracy for research and competition models but suit yourself. Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Talasco" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 10:29 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR Express Reefers > Hello Everyone, > I am looking to scratchbuilde some express reefers > in O Scale. Can anyone direct me to a source for scale > drawings of the PRR Express Reefers such as the R50? > > Thanks!! > > Fred > > > ===== > Field Musick of His Majesty's 64th Regt. of Foot > > __________________________________________________ > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > Donate cash, emergency relief information > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Express Reefers Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 11:30:22 -0400 List: According to MR's Index, plans were published in the July/August 1987 issue of "S Gaugian" and the March 1945 issue of "Model Railroader". MR will sell photocopies of old articles and plans - don't know about "S Gaugian". Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" ; "Fred Talasco" Cc: "Burnley, Charles" Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Express Reefers > When I built mine, I used the drawings located in the "Pennsylvania Railroad > Heavyweight Passenger Equipment Plan and Photo Book" published by N.J. > International, Inc. 1984. Some people say that these drawings aren't > accurate, but what's a few scale inches at a three foot viewing distance in > a moving train? I like accuracy for research and competition models but > suit yourself. > > Lew > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Talasco" > To: "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 10:29 PM > Subject: [PRR] PRR Express Reefers > > > > Hello Everyone, > > I am looking to scratchbuilde some express reefers > > in O Scale. Can anyone direct me to a source for scale > > drawings of the PRR Express Reefers such as the R50? > > > > Thanks!! > > > > Fred > > > > > > ===== > > Field Musick of His Majesty's 64th Regt. of Foot > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > > Donate cash, emergency relief information > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 14:24:55 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] L1 article... special one time deal Gize, I have always appreciated Kris` modesty but the work is worthy of a musuem and the effort put forth is more than most would be willing to do. Heis eye for detail has been trained well and he is a student to work with so when he ask for help he takes it to heart. I have been privledged to view his upcoming K-4 effrots and when the article prints this will be a keeper. I to would like to send out my appreciation to our boys of the armed forces, I have a son-in-law in the Gulf on a huge prime sitting target and I am sitting on pins and needles. God Bless our boys, and I wsih that they can all come home safely, and this conflict will resolve itself safely... GOD BLESS AMERICA! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:11:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Express Reefers & P70fbr From: "Douglas Nelson" > If you find a source please let me know. I'm looking for drawings > of the Pennsy P70fbr coach for the same reason. > Thanks. Fred and Buzz: Plans for both the R50b Express Reefer and the P70fbr Coach can be found in "PRR Heavyweight Passenger Equipment Plan and Photo Book" published by N.J. International. Doug Nelson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 19:07:02 EDT Subject: [PRR] Attic Depot Dear List, I'm told The Attic Depot railroadiana (spelling?) store that used to be located in Strasburg close to the Strasburg RR and The RR Museum of PA has moved to Lancaster. Does anyone know an address for their new location. I'll be in the area in early October and want to stop by. Thanks, Jon S. PRRT&HS #3079 FRM of PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 22:50:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] L1s 520 Assignments for 1949-56 Hello list, I believe Mark was asking for L1s 520's assignments through the years. This information is from the 1949-56 MP-229 forms. L1s 520 7/1/49 Western PA Division-Pittsburgh Division 5/1/50 Western PA Division-Pittsburgh Division 6/1/51 Pittsburgh Division 3/1/52 Pittsburgh Division 4/1/53 Columbus Division 3/1/54 Columbus Division 4/1/55 Columbus Division 3/1/56 Philadelphia Region I wonder when she got her 110P75A? Do any of you have photos of 520 with a 90F75 tender? Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 07:56:27 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] CT1000 bibliography - 10th revision Thanks for information received to (in alphabetical order) Jim Aldridge, Jeff Feldmeier, Bob Johnson, Pat McKinney, Paul Schopp, Tom Sellers, Garry Spear, Dave Wartell. Jeff Feldmeier, hoping to increase his share of the fame and fortune coming to contributors, adds two data points for the late 19th century: Editions were printed in: 1946 Supplement to 1945 edition, date not certain 1945 ------------+ 1923 | 1918 | 1915 | 1913 | 1911 Form C. T. 1000 ???? | (???? means "don't know") 1907 | 1906 | 1905 | 1904 | 1903 | 1902 | 1901 | 1900 ------------+ 1899 Form number not known (see comment below) 1898 Form C. T. 1000 <---- New information 1897 Form number not known <---- New info ???? Form number not known 1895 ------------+ ???? | 1892 | <---- New information 1891 Form C. R. 76 ???? | 1888 | 1887 ------------+ ???? Form number not known 1882 ------------+ ???? Form 76 C. R. 1879 ------------+ 1878 Form number not known 1877 Form 89 C. R. 1876 Form number not known ???? I'm being hyper-correct on those form numbers around 1898. Remember that the 1900 CT1000 says "...supercedes edition of 1899" without saying what the 1899 form number was. That appears to be the situation with the 1898/1897 books also. For myself, if the 1898 and 1900 books were Form CT1000, I can't imagine the 1899 book having any other form number. But note: The 1895 book is known to have been Form CR76, 1898 Form CT1000. So, 'tis possible that "the edition of 1897" was a Form CR76. It would be nice to know, wouldn't it? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: nuts4prr@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:49:02 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] 1963 Equipment Listers, After years of collecting PRR equipment with no real thought to what era I am modeling I have decided to narrow down my era to 1963 and the last new locomotives to one of my favourite diesels, the GP30. It is pretty easy to find out when a piece of equipment was introduced but I am having difficulty finding out when they were withdrawn. My question is does anyone know of a place where I can look up when particular locomotives were withdrawn? I am endeavoring to find a 1963 ORER (anybody have one they want to sell?) so I can see what rolling stock was still in service but this doesn't help for locomotives. Can anyone help? By the way as I go through my rolling stock I will be selling the Surplus on eBay. I will keep you informed. Graeme Nitz An Aussie SPF Now Living in Tulsa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Alto Tower second life. Good news for those who are interested in Alto Tower. As we all know NS will be closing the tower with in the year. The good news that NS is giving the RR museum in Altoona first crack at it!!!! Plans are being made to relocate the tower to museum property. Lets hope that it doesn't end up like MO Tower. Mark L ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:28:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] 1361 update Most of us have been wondering if 1361 will ever be compleated. Its been laying in pieces for the last few years at Steamtown. I was able to attend the annual members meeting at the RR museum this weekend and hear a status report on the 1361 refurb. I'm no steam expert,but. To me the list of things that needs to be completed by the July 2002 projected return date is overwhelming. What do you steamers on the list think ? List as follows from the head of the K4 committee at the museum 1. Install backhead/ finish firebox 2 finish smokebox 3 install stay bolts 4 install mud ring(s) (Whatever they are?) 5 install main steam pipes 6 fabricate new side rods( The originals have been lost!!) 7 Axels and wheels. 8 refurb tender( trucks are in bad shape.) To me it sounds like 1361 is in the same state I saw it at Steamtown 3 years ago. I hope it is compleated on the projected date. Museum members are to get the first passenger pulling test run at steamtown when the 1361 is compleated. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe curve trees Good news for those of us who would like to see the curve from below and not the trees!! Everything is finally in place to remove/trim the trees at the curve!!! The job will be bid out in Oct.and work is to begin this winter. The hold up has been bats belive it or not. The work will be done in three stages. 1 Remove the interior trees that line the bank of the park. 2 Cut to windows at each end of the curve. 3 Top the remaining trees that line the bank. The view next Spring should be great!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Trees Hello Mark, What does"Cut to windows at each end of park" and Top the remaining trees " mean? Will we be able to see a train enter the Curve from Kittanning Point and watch it all the way around to McGinley's Curve by the spring? Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:32:36 -0400 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] Alto Tower second life. Can't we leave the tower where it is and close NS? --On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 17:43 -0400 "Mark Lehman" wrote: > Good news for those who are interested in Alto Tower. As we all know NS > will be closing the tower with in the year. The good news that NS is > giving the RR museum in Altoona first crack at it!!!! Plans are being > made to relocate the tower to museum property. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] lettering remover Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:47:17 -0400 Hi Everyone, I came across an item on Ebay a few months ago by accident when surfing my usual PRR variations. It claimed to be able to remove just the lettering and leave the paint intact. It was cheap, so I bid the Dutch auction. I just tried it. It REALLY works well. I was removing the lettering with a Q-tip on a Golden Wheels die cast taxi. It removed just what I wanted in 2 minutes leaving the paint intact and unnoticeable. You could also use it to do very specific weathering. The small container will last you a while. I have NO affiliate with the seller. Check it out. http://www.erie.net/~joepol/ Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:20:08 -0800 From: Harry Webber Subject: [PRR] "Secrets Of The Broadway Ltd." Hi Group- The Next episode, "The Death Of Steam" is up and running. http://www.theBroadwayLtd.com Harry Webber ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:32:23 +1000 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: [PRR] MSTS PRR 40ft Box Hi everyone, I just had a browse through the Train - Sim file library. There is a 40ft boxcar in a general PRR scheme. It doesn't appear to represent any particular prototype but its not a bad job all the same. Train - Sim Website can be found at http://www.train-sim.com Cheers, Mick Molloy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 04:25:37 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] What is this CT1000 anyway? Since Steve may not be alone in this, I've put this to Out List. --- LKeough107@aol.com wrote: > Bob > I am relatively new to this page. I am not > familiar with what the CT1000 is. Could you please > giv me a brief description. I would appreciate it. > If it has anything I may need as far a s information > on PRR in the Pittsburgh Region I may be interested. > Thanks again. > Steve Keough The title of the book is "List of Stations and Sidings with Instructions for Making Reports to the Superintendent of Car Service" (or similar titles in various years). It is a very detailed list of every location where a car might be set out and junctions with other railroads. In addition, there are tables of other interesting information, such as Location of Track Scales, Location of Cranes, Location of Wagon Scales. If you can process .pdf files, go to http://kc.pennsyrr.com where Our Listmaster has the 1945 and part of the 1923 books posted. Instructions: On the main page, scroll down until you see "Official Documents of the Pennsy" in the middle column. Click on that. On the next page scroll down to "Regional Documents" and under that look for CT1000E or CT1000C or CT1000W. Click on one of them and see what the fuss is about. (Again, assuming you can process .pdf's) If you can't do .pdf, send an e-mail off-list, and I'll forward a small sample in HTML, along with a sermon on the virtues of .pdf and how to become able to process it. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 04:35:07 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] 1361 update --- Mark Lehman wrote: > 4 install mud ring(s) (Whatever they are?) They connect the bottom edges of the firebox sheets to the bottom edges of the boiler sheets. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 04:39:31 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Fwd: [PRR] What is this CT1000 anyway? --- robert netzlof wrote: > Since Steve may not be alone in this, I've put this > to > Out List. Unfortunately, robert netzlof should have written: ... to Our List. @#$% finger coordination! ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: RE: [PRR] 1361 update Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:11:12 -0400 I've had some reports from a couple of people working on the project, and they have done a huge amount of work on her already, but if this list correct then the folks at Altoona are dreaming if they want it back running in 02. I've worked on steam, and although this work is not overwhelming, the size of the crew in Altoona is very small. With a large crew I think the work could get done, but from the reports of small crew sizes (most weekends 3 or 4 guys, and I think only 2 guys full time) I've received I don't think so. I hope I'm wrong of course. The good thing is from what I've seen in my visits, and heard from various people, the workmanship is excellent, and when she is done we will have a loco with years of life ahead of her, so be it '02 or '04, when she's done we will all have a fantastic treasure to enjoy together. Tom von Trott -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lehman Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 6:29 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] 1361 update Most of us have been wondering if 1361 will ever be compleated. Its been laying in pieces for the last few years at Steamtown. I was able to attend the annual members meeting at the RR museum this weekend and hear a status report on the 1361 refurb. I'm no steam expert,but. To me the list of things that needs to be completed by the July 2002 projected return date is overwhelming. What do you steamers on the list think ? List as follows from the head of the K4 committee at the museum 1. Install backhead/ finish firebox 2 finish smokebox 3 install stay bolts 4 install mud ring(s) (Whatever they are?) 5 install main steam pipes 6 fabricate new side rods( The originals have been lost!!) 7 Axels and wheels. 8 refurb tender( trucks are in bad shape.) To me it sounds like 1361 is in the same state I saw it at Steamtown 3 years ago. I hope it is compleated on the projected date. Museum members are to get the first passenger pulling test run at steamtown when the 1361 is compleated. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:52:13 EDT From: JSZARMACH@aol.com Subject: [PRR] GG1 4909 Homepage FYI, I transcribed and posted a couple of chapters from an original 1937 PRR GG1 Engineman's Handbook to my GG1 4909 homepage. I bought the GG1 Engineman's Handbook 20 years ago from someone who worked at the Wilmington Shops. I never thought I'd have a real GG1 to go along with it. I thought others might enjoy reading parts of the handbook. I'll post more chapters when I get a chance. It can be seen at: http://www.pjandcompany.com/GG1 --Joe ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:15:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Keith B. Thompson - Sun" Subject: [PRR] Re: [S-Scale] lettering remover There is an auction currently going on for this stuff. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1642340902 It does not look like you can place a single order directly from this person (according to the website). Also, the guy needs a name for it! It was quite a pain to find the ebay item. I to have NO affiliation with the seller, though I must admit to knowing Mr. Lane :) kbt > Hi Everyone, > > I came across an item on Ebay a few months ago by accident when surfing my > usual PRR variations. It claimed to be able to remove just the lettering and > leave the paint intact. It was cheap, so I bid the Dutch auction. I just > tried it. It REALLY works well. I was removing the lettering with a Q-tip > on a Golden Wheels die cast taxi. It removed just what I wanted in 2 minutes > leaving the paint intact and unnoticeable. You could also use it to do very > specific weathering. > > The small container will last you a while. > > I have NO affiliate with the seller. Check it out. > http://www.erie.net/~joepol/ > > Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:49:03 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Trees Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art wrote: >What does "Cut to windows at each end of park" and Top the remaining trees " mean? >Will we be able to see a train enter the Curve from Kittanning > Point and watch it all the way around to McGinley's Curve by the spring? Greetings to Dave and the List: The program being coordinated by the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum will result in trimming of brush at several locations at Horseshoe Curve, but it will not result in a clear-cut from one side to the other as one could have seen in, say, 1940. ARMM anticipates putting the project out for bid in mid-October. It was not possible to have the work done in time for Railfest partly for environmental reasons--work cannot be done until the Indiana bat goes into hibernation, which occurs in October. The cutting will take place in three parts. The first is clearing brush near the center of the curve. Larger trees will be left standing, but smaller ones that obscure the view east and west from the center will be cleared. The second part will be to clear two "windows" in the vegetation at the east and west ends of the curve so visitors can get an idea of the change of elevation between the upper and lower sides. This is perhaps the biggest current complaint that visitors have: they see the trains at the center of the curve but have no concept or visual reminder of the engineering significance of why the track alignment is laid out as it is. With what money is left, the contractor will pursue the third stage -- topping trees that stand between these windows and the center of the curve. "Topping" is just what it implies, cutting the tops off those trees that grow on the embankments so that the roots and trunks remain (this avoids creating a situation that invites erosion) while removing the upper portion of the trees to open up the view at track level. As a side note, Conrail previously performed some topping in conjunction with the museum about the time that the Horseshoe Curve National Historic Site visitor center opened in April 1992, but those trees have regrown in the intervening nine years. So far, the museum has $50,000 with which to work, $40,000 of it from a federal Tea-21 grant. Executive Director Cummins McNitt reminds us that additional contributions toward this project would still be gratefully received. The unspoken message here is: The more contributions received, the more vegetation will be cleared between the two windows and the center of the curve. His address: Cummins McNitt Executive Director Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum 1300 Ninth Avenue, Altoona, PA 16601 Hope this is helpful, Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:54:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Trees From: Jerry Britton On 9/25/01 12:49 PM, Dan Cupper (cupper@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > The program being coordinated by the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum > will result in trimming of brush at several locations at Horseshoe > Curve, but it will not result in a clear-cut from one side to the other > as one could have seen in, say, 1940. > Thanks for this valuable update from someone on the "inside" of the ARMM. Unbelievably, my first visit to the Horseshoe Curve wasn't until about five years ago. My reaction? Big deal!!! Not being able to see the vastness of the Curve itself made the visit uneventful. Although I have to admit, if you go during the winter or very early spring the view is "reasonable". With no real view available at the Curve, my favorite spot quickly became Cresson. I don't think I've ever been there more than 15 minutes without something coming by...and track detectors are conveniently located about two miles on either side. With scanner in hand, Cresson is one great spot! Knock down the trees and Horseshoe Curve may once again become a site of choice. Too bad we can't get an observation deck on top of the knoll above the Curve!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Day" Subject: [PRR] 1361 delusions of grandeur. Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:25:57 -0400 Seems like a pretty ambitious bunch of work yet to be done in a limited time frame. Sure woulld like to see 1361 under steam again. I'm looking for some good photos of the Steubenville, OH station circa 1955. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Matthew J Brown Subject: [PRR] PRR for the Railway 32 Screensaver Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:30:47 -0700 I've been working on a project to do a PRR module for the Railway 32 screensaver (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/HomePages/MarkGoodspeed) for more than a year. Railway 32 is a shareware screensaver for Windows that depicts a rail scene in side view and runs trains over it; the good thing is that it's user extensible. Being a British program, the standard scenes and trains are all UK prototypes, but it's been extended to cover a lot more than that. What's just changed is that I've produced a web site to show off the current state. The module is not finished, but I've drawn a large number of PRR steam locomotives, a few diesels and electrics, and some cars, all at a scale of 3 pixels per foot. It's at http://www.byz.org/~morven/Railway32/ The train pictures are all free to use, so if you want to put them on a web page somewhere, that's fine -- I'd like to know where they go, but you don't have to. And yes, I know a few inaccuracies are there -- the worst being that the I1s boiler is too skinny. That's on the 'to fix' list. Hoping some of you can have fun with this! -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:35:45 EDT From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: [Fwd: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH] Jerry, Here's more info about Pennsy and DT&I lines in west Central Ohio than you were bargaining for. Bear with me. I'll answer your question. . . eventually. Through traffic on the PRR Springfield Branch, the original Little Miami RR, pretty much ended with the closure of Crowles-Collier Publishing Co.'s massive rotogravature printing plant on the east side of downtown Springfield in March 1955 (I was born six months later, 9/18/55, in Dayton. Prior to this event getting Collier's magazine into the hand of millions of readers in the South, southern plains and Southwest was the primary source of income for this segment of Ohio's first cross-state railine, the first railroad connectibg a Great Lake port with any port on the Ohio or Mississippi rivers. I'm looking for accurate information about the weekly Collier's "special" that passed through Yellow Springs at about 7:30 p.m. eaxh Friday just in time to disrupt the opening acts of plays presented on the Antioch College campus as both theater building and all outdoor venues were just acrosse Corry St. from the branchline tracks. I've been told the "Collier's Special" was usually seven or more baggage or mail storage cars with an N-6 class cabin car in the rear pulled by a K-4 4-6-4 Pacific during the late 1940s until dieselization of the lines through Xenia in August 1949 I have no info about motive power between 1949 and 1955. Fairbanks-Morse H-10-44s or H-12-44s based in Xenia or Dayton did local shfting turns while the huge 2,400 hp Lima-Hamilton LH24 or 2,500 hp Lima-Hamilton-Baldwin LHB25 Center cab tansfer motors handled traffic between the yards and facilities in Columbus, Xenia Dayton and Cincinnati. Now to your Question. From 1929 to 1964 the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton RR was owned by the Pennroad Corp., a wholly-owned but independently opeerated subsidiary of the Pennsylvania RailRoad Co. As part of the Norfolk & Western, Nickel Plate Road and Wabaash merger of 1964, Pennroad purchased the Ann Arbor Railroad and operated it jointly with the DT&I, Pennroad was then spun off into a truly independent company. Stripped of a cozy relationship with the PRR, the new DT&I needed an outlet to the south. As far as I can tell, there was little or no thru traffic on the Springfield branch with its street trackage passing through downtown Xenia on the west side of the Greene County Courthouse. The street tracakage on Detroit Street (U.S. 68) was paved over circa 1964 between intersections at Third Street two blocks south of the Courthouse (there is no First Street) and Church Street, a block north of the courthouse. The rails were removed when Detrot Street was rebuilt from the roadbeds up in 1966. The two through girder highway overpasses between Xenia and YYellow Springs were removed sometime during the early 1970s. All riverine bridges, save one plate girder span across Oldtown Run at Oldtown, between Springfield and Milford were preeserved and now carry the Little Miami Scenic Trail. NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. I'm doing a bit of historical research in Xenia. try to get me a more exact date and I'll look up the story in the local newspapeer microfilm archieve, After the DT&I became independent in 1964, it needed connections across the Ohio River at Cincinnati. From 1964 until the abandonment of portions the Panhandle Mainline between Xenia and Cincinnati during the early 1970s the DT&I used trackage rights from its crossing of the Columbus-Cincinnati mainline at South Charleston to probably Underhill Yard, one of the nation's first railyard on Cincinnati's east side. From then until final abandonment of the Panhandle main between London, Ohio, and Clement on the eastere edge of Dayton, the DT&I used trackage rights on the old PRR main into Dayton and then south to Cincinnati on the ex-Big 4/NYC PC/CR mainline between Dayton and Cincinnati. Hope this helps. Tom V. In a message dated Mon, 24 Sep 2001 8:19:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jerry Jordak writes: > Hi Tom, > > From seeing your posts on PRR-Talk, I know of your expertise on the Pennsy > lines west of Columbus and especially around Xenia. I received this e-mail > the other day and thought maybe you might know something about this wreck > of which he speaks. Let me know if you might have any info. > > Thanks! > Jerry > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH > Date: 21 Sep 2001 22:37:04 EDT > From: David Oroszi > > Do any of you have any information about a wreck tht occurred on the PC/PRR > Xenia-Columbus line at Cedarville in April 1968? I am working on our > PRR/PC/CR book and we have two real good pictures of the wreck that I want > to use.However, I have no information about the wreck, other than from one > of the photographers that thought it was a DT&I train. > > Thanks > Oroszi ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:35:42 EDT From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: [Fwd: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH] Jerry, Here's more info about Pennsy and DT&I lines in west Central Ohio than you were bargaining for. Bear with me. I'll answer your question. . . eventually. Through traffic on the PRR Springfield Branch, the original Little Miami RR, pretty much ended with the closure of Crowles-Collier Publishing Co.'s massive rotogravature printing plant on the east side of downtown Springfield in March 1955 (I was born six months later, 9/18/55, in Dayton. Prior to this event getting Collier's magazine into the hand of millions of readers in the South, southern plains and Southwest was the primary source of income for this segment of Ohio's first cross-state railine, the first railroad connectibg a Great Lake port with any port on the Ohio or Mississippi rivers. I'm looking for accurate information about the weekly Collier's "special" that passed through Yellow Springs at about 7:30 p.m. eaxh Friday just in time to disrupt the opening acts of plays presented on the Antioch College campus as both theater building and all outdoor venues were just acrosse Corry St. from the branchline tracks. I've been told the "Collier's Special" was usually seven or more baggage or mail storage cars with an N-6 class cabin car in the rear pulled by a K-4 4-6-4 Pacific during the late 1940s until dieselization of the lines through Xenia in August 1949 I have no info about motive power between 1949 and 1955. Fairbanks-Morse H-10-44s or H-12-44s based in Xenia or Dayton did local shfting turns while the huge 2,400 hp Lima-Hamilton LH24 or 2,500 hp Lima-Hamilton-Baldwin LHB25 Center cab tansfer motors handled traffic between the yards and facilities in Columbus, Xenia Dayton and Cincinnati. Now to your Question. From 1929 to 1964 the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton RR was owned by the Pennroad Corp., a wholly-owned but independently opeerated subsidiary of the Pennsylvania RailRoad Co. As part of the Norfolk & Western, Nickel Plate Road and Wabaash merger of 1964, Pennroad purchased the Ann Arbor Railroad and operated it jointly with the DT&I, Pennroad was then spun off into a truly independent company. Stripped of a cozy relationship with the PRR, the new DT&I needed an outlet to the south. As far as I can tell, there was little or no thru traffic on the Springfield branch with its street trackage passing through downtown Xenia on the west side of the Greene County Courthouse. The street tracakage on Detroit Street (U.S. 68) was paved over circa 1964 between intersections at Third Street two blocks south of the Courthouse (there is no First Street) and Church Street, a block north of the courthouse. The rails were removed when Detrot Street was rebuilt from the roadbeds up in 1966. The two through girder highway overpasses between Xenia and YYellow Springs were removed sometime during the early 1970s. All riverine bridges, save one plate girder span across Oldtown Run at Oldtown, between Springfield and Milford were preeserved and now carry the Little Miami Scenic Trail. NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. I'm doing a bit of historical research in Xenia. try to get me a more exact date and I'll look up the story in the local newspapeer microfilm archieve, After the DT&I became independent in 1964, it needed connections across the Ohio River at Cincinnati. From 1964 until the abandonment of portions the Panhandle Mainline between Xenia and Cincinnati during the early 1970s the DT&I used trackage rights from its crossing of the Columbus-Cincinnati mainline at South Charleston to probably Underhill Yard, one of the nation's first railyard on Cincinnati's east side. From then until final abandonment of the Panhandle main between London, Ohio, and Clement on the eastere edge of Dayton, the DT&I used trackage rights on the old PRR main into Dayton and then south to Cincinnati on the ex-Big 4/NYC PC/CR mainline between Dayton and Cincinnati. Hope this helps. Tom V. In a message dated Mon, 24 Sep 2001 8:19:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jerry Jordak writes: > Hi Tom, > > From seeing your posts on PRR-Talk, I know of your expertise on the Pennsy > lines west of Columbus and especially around Xenia. I received this e-mail > the other day and thought maybe you might know something about this wreck > of which he speaks. Let me know if you might have any info. > > Thanks! > Jerry > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH > Date: 21 Sep 2001 22:37:04 EDT > From: David Oroszi > > Do any of you have any information about a wreck tht occurred on the PC/PRR > Xenia-Columbus line at Cedarville in April 1968? I am working on our > PRR/PC/CR book and we have two real good pictures of the wreck that I want > to use.However, I have no information about the wreck, other than from one > of the photographers that thought it was a DT&I train. > > Thanks > Oroszi ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:35:48 EDT From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: [Fwd: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH] Jerry, Here's more info about Pennsy and DT&I lines in west Central Ohio than you were bargaining for. Bear with me. I'll answer your question. . . eventually. Through traffic on the PRR Springfield Branch, the original Little Miami RR, pretty much ended with the closure of Crowles-Collier Publishing Co.'s massive rotogravature printing plant on the east side of downtown Springfield in March 1955 (I was born six months later, 9/18/55, in Dayton. Prior to this event getting Collier's magazine into the hand of millions of readers in the South, southern plains and Southwest was the primary source of income for this segment of Ohio's first cross-state railine, the first railroad connectibg a Great Lake port with any port on the Ohio or Mississippi rivers. I'm looking for accurate information about the weekly Collier's "special" that passed through Yellow Springs at about 7:30 p.m. eaxh Friday just in time to disrupt the opening acts of plays presented on the Antioch College campus as both theater building and all outdoor venues were just acrosse Corry St. from the branchline tracks. I've been told the "Collier's Special" was usually seven or more baggage or mail storage cars with an N-6 class cabin car in the rear pulled by a K-4 4-6-4 Pacific during the late 1940s until dieselization of the lines through Xenia in August 1949 I have no info about motive power between 1949 and 1955. Fairbanks-Morse H-10-44s or H-12-44s based in Xenia or Dayton did local shfting turns while the huge 2,400 hp Lima-Hamilton LH24 or 2,500 hp Lima-Hamilton-Baldwin LHB25 Center cab tansfer motors handled traffic between the yards and facilities in Columbus, Xenia Dayton and Cincinnati. Now to your Question. From 1929 to 1964 the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton RR was owned by the Pennroad Corp., a wholly-owned but independently opeerated subsidiary of the Pennsylvania RailRoad Co. As part of the Norfolk & Western, Nickel Plate Road and Wabaash merger of 1964, Pennroad purchased the Ann Arbor Railroad and operated it jointly with the DT&I, Pennroad was then spun off into a truly independent company. Stripped of a cozy relationship with the PRR, the new DT&I needed an outlet to the south. As far as I can tell, there was little or no thru traffic on the Springfield branch with its street trackage passing through downtown Xenia on the west side of the Greene County Courthouse. The street tracakage on Detroit Street (U.S. 68) was paved over circa 1964 between intersections at Third Street two blocks south of the Courthouse (there is no First Street) and Church Street, a block north of the courthouse. The rails were removed when Detrot Street was rebuilt from the roadbeds up in 1966. The two through girder highway overpasses between Xenia and YYellow Springs were removed sometime during the early 1970s. All riverine bridges, save one plate girder span across Oldtown Run at Oldtown, between Springfield and Milford were preeserved and now carry the Little Miami Scenic Trail. NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. I'm doing a bit of historical research in Xenia. try to get me a more exact date and I'll look up the story in the local newspapeer microfilm archieve, After the DT&I became independent in 1964, it needed connections across the Ohio River at Cincinnati. From 1964 until the abandonment of portions the Panhandle Mainline between Xenia and Cincinnati during the early 1970s the DT&I used trackage rights from its crossing of the Columbus-Cincinnati mainline at South Charleston to probably Underhill Yard, one of the nation's first railyard on Cincinnati's east side. From then until final abandonment of the Panhandle main between London, Ohio, and Clement on the eastere edge of Dayton, the DT&I used trackage rights on the old PRR main into Dayton and then south to Cincinnati on the ex-Big 4/NYC PC/CR mainline between Dayton and Cincinnati. Hope this helps. Tom V. In a message dated Mon, 24 Sep 2001 8:19:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jerry Jordak writes: > Hi Tom, > > From seeing your posts on PRR-Talk, I know of your expertise on the Pennsy > lines west of Columbus and especially around Xenia. I received this e-mail > the other day and thought maybe you might know something about this wreck > of which he speaks. Let me know if you might have any info. > > Thanks! > Jerry > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH > Date: 21 Sep 2001 22:37:04 EDT > From: David Oroszi > > Do any of you have any information about a wreck tht occurred on the PC/PRR > Xenia-Columbus line at Cedarville in April 1968? I am working on our > PRR/PC/CR book and we have two real good pictures of the wreck that I want > to use.However, I have no information about the wreck, other than from one > of the photographers that thought it was a DT&I train. > > Thanks > Oroszi ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Trees Dan Cupper. Were you at the annual members meeting on Saturday? I don't recall seeing your name on the sign in sheet? I was suprised to learn that Bennett L is a member but he did not attend. Mark Lehman. Life member Altoona Railroaders memorial museum # 474 PRR T&HS # 6966 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:55:40 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: [PRR] PRR movie clips As I'm sitting at the computer, "Pride of the Marines" with John Garfield is playing on TCM. Besides wanting to see a video of all the Hollywood movie clips showing the PRR, I'd give a lot more to see what hit the cutting room floor. Can you imagine all the unused footage of GG1's and other PRR trains on the upper level of 30th Street Station that wasn't used for "Pride of the Marines"? So if I were to compile a list of movies with the PRR, what other movies are there? Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:20:07 -0400 From: My Mail Subject: [PRR] pennsy boxcar I have the MSTS. It's great! I have download the pennsy boxcar, but if you want to see something great for the MSTS, download the GG1 + heavyweight cars from http://www.trainweb.org/columbusrr/clw/ . The GG1 is great, they're working on the inside cabveiw. The cars are pretty plain and aren't pennsy, but hey these people worked hard on this and they did a great job. Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:58:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR movie clips In a message dated 9/25/01 5:03:17 PM Central Daylight Time, prrbill@Op.Net writes: << Can you imagine all the unused footage of GG1's and other PRR trains on the upper level of 30th Street Station that wasn't used for "Pride of the Marines"? >> I'd love to see the unused footage for "Broadway Limited". My dream is that it is in a vault somewhere, not disintegrated, and someone will discover it. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Trees Hello Jerry & list, I think your reaction to the Horseshoe Curve five years ago is how a lot of people feel. It's too bad that those trees got out of control like that. Thats the main reason I stopped going to the Curve. But if they do cut down those trees, you will see a big difference. It's too bad that you can't go up to the park at night anymore. Watching eastbounds with the brakeshoes ablaze is something to see. Well I'll guess I'll run into some of you guys up there at the Railfest. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [Fwd: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH] Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:15:44 -0400 Tom:- Wasn't the PRR yard at Cincinnati Undercliff, not Underhill? I worked for the PRR in New Orleans, Cleveland and Baltimore 1962-1968. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:35 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: [Fwd: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH] > > Jerry, > > Here's more info about Pennsy and DT&I lines in west Central Ohio than you were bargaining for. Bear with me. I'll answer your question. . . eventually. > > Through traffic on the PRR Springfield Branch, the original Little Miami RR, pretty much ended with the closure of Crowles-Collier Publishing Co.'s massive rotogravature printing plant on the east side of downtown Springfield in March 1955 (I was born six months later, 9/18/55, in Dayton. Prior to this event getting Collier's magazine into the hand of millions of readers in the South, southern plains and Southwest was the primary source of income for this segment of Ohio's first cross-state railine, the first railroad connectibg a Great Lake port with any port on the Ohio or Mississippi rivers. > I'm looking for accurate information about the weekly Collier's "special" that passed through Yellow Springs at about 7:30 p.m. eaxh Friday just in time to disrupt the opening acts of plays presented on the Antioch College campus as both theater building and all outdoor venues were just acrosse Corry St. from the branchline tracks. > I've been told the "Collier's Special" was usually seven or more baggage or mail storage cars with an N-6 class cabin car in the rear pulled by a K-4 4-6-4 Pacific during the late 1940s until dieselization of the lines through Xenia in August 1949 I have no info about motive power between 1949 and 1955. Fairbanks-Morse H-10-44s or H-12-44s based in Xenia or Dayton did local shfting turns while the huge 2,400 hp Lima-Hamilton LH24 or 2,500 hp Lima-Hamilton-Baldwin LHB25 Center cab tansfer motors handled traffic between the yards and facilities in Columbus, Xenia Dayton and Cincinnati. > > Now to your Question. From 1929 to 1964 the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton RR was owned by the Pennroad Corp., a wholly-owned but independently opeerated subsidiary of the Pennsylvania RailRoad Co. As part of the Norfolk & Western, Nickel Plate Road and Wabaash merger of 1964, Pennroad purchased the Ann Arbor Railroad and operated it jointly with the DT&I, Pennroad was then spun off into a truly independent company. > > Stripped of a cozy relationship with the PRR, the new DT&I needed an outlet to the south. As far as I can tell, there was little or no thru traffic on the Springfield branch with its street trackage passing through downtown Xenia on the west side of the Greene County Courthouse. The street tracakage on Detroit Street (U.S. 68) was paved over circa 1964 between intersections at Third Street two blocks south of the Courthouse (there is no First Street) and Church Street, a block north of the courthouse. The rails were removed when Detrot Street was rebuilt from the roadbeds up in 1966. The two through girder highway overpasses between Xenia and YYellow Springs were removed sometime during the early 1970s. All riverine bridges, save one plate girder span across Oldtown Run at Oldtown, between Springfield and Milford were preeserved and now carry the Little Miami Scenic Trail. > > NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. I'm doing a bit of historical research in Xenia. try to get me a more exact date and I'll look up the story in the local newspapeer microfilm archieve, > After the DT&I became independent in 1964, it needed connections across the Ohio River at Cincinnati. From 1964 until the abandonment of portions the Panhandle Mainline between Xenia and Cincinnati during the early 1970s the DT&I used trackage rights from its crossing of the Columbus-Cincinnati mainline at South Charleston to probably Underhill Yard, one of the nation's first railyard on Cincinnati's east side. From then until final abandonment of the Panhandle main between London, Ohio, and Clement on the eastere edge of Dayton, the DT&I used trackage rights on the old PRR main into Dayton and then south to Cincinnati on the ex-Big 4/NYC PC/CR mainline between Dayton and Cincinnati. > > Hope this helps. > > Tom V. > > In a message dated Mon, 24 Sep 2001 8:19:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jerry Jordak writes: > > > Hi Tom, > > > > From seeing your posts on PRR-Talk, I know of your expertise on the Pennsy > > lines west of Columbus and especially around Xenia. I received this e-mail > > the other day and thought maybe you might know something about this wreck > > of which he speaks. Let me know if you might have any info. > > > > Thanks! > > Jerry > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH > > Date: 21 Sep 2001 22:37:04 EDT > > From: David Oroszi > > > > Do any of you have any information about a wreck tht occurred on the PC/PRR > > Xenia-Columbus line at Cedarville in April 1968? I am working on our > > PRR/PC/CR book and we have two real good pictures of the wreck that I want > > to use.However, I have no information about the wreck, other than from one > > of the photographers that thought it was a DT&I train. > > > > Thanks > > Oroszi > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:14:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR movie clips Bill, Heres two I bet no one mentions: 1. The Greatest Show On Earth Shows footage of GG1s moving circus train in Meadow Yards in Kearny, NJ. 2. The Day The Earth Stood Still Footage of GG1 sitting dead on main line. Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:33:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Trees In a message dated 9/25/01 4:10:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: << It's too bad that you can't go up to the park at night anymore. Watching eastbounds with the brakeshoes ablaze is something to see. Well I'll guess I'll run into some of you guys up there at the Railfest. Dave >> Dave and List. What I miss the most has going up to the Curve real early in the morning. Stitting in the park at that time use to be very peaceful. There would generaly be a low hanging mist that would float over the curve and give it the feeling of almost being up in the clouds. I've sat up there many mornings in complete silence, with nothing moving but the mist. Then suddenly a group of deers would scamper into the park. Not seeing me, they would nibble on the trees and bushes. Then off in the far distance you could hear a westbound begining to work its way up the hill. It would seem to take forever to make its way to the curve. . . and it wouldn't be untill he reached the curve propper that the deer would take flight. The WB would round the curve sounding even louder in the early mormimg silence than he would in the mid day.... then the sound would drift off to the west and the serenity would return to the park, and sometimes the deers. If thats not heaven, I don't know what is. And all that has been taken away! Jon S. PRRT&HS #3079 FRM of PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:41:11 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR movie clips Manchurian Candidate (GGI P-70's) WASH-NYC I think the "Greatest Show on Earth" was fimed in South Philadelphia at "Stadium" JONS6755@aol.com wrote: > > Bill, > Heres two I bet no one mentions: > > 1. The Greatest Show On Earth > Shows footage of GG1s moving circus train in Meadow Yards in Kearny, NJ. > > 2. The Day The Earth Stood Still > Footage of GG1 sitting dead on main line. > > Jon S. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:59:59 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Trees Maybe if so many of those who post feel so strongly about the restricted visitor hours at the curve, a letter or e-mail campaign should be mounted to alert the museum's BoD of your feelings and encourage some alternative plan to be worked out to encourage "off-peak" visitation hours. I think the museum would like to be as user friendly as possible and if tourism is going to decline due to the current war effort then every possible reason to keep the museum's revenue stream stable should be encouraged. Maybe the funicular does not have to operate "off-peak" but some simple accommodations could be put into place to keep it open earlier and/or later for those who desire a spiritual experience (I do not mean the Spirit of St Louis). Bennett JONS6755@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/25/01 4:10:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: > > << It's too bad that you can't go up to the park at night anymore. Watching > eastbounds with the brakeshoes ablaze is something to see. > Well I'll guess I'll run into some of you guys up there at the > Railfest. > Dave >> > > Dave and List. > What I miss the most has going up to the Curve real early in the morning. > Stitting in the park at that time use to be very peaceful. There would > generaly be a low hanging mist that would float over the curve and give it > the feeling of almost being up in the clouds. I've sat up there many mornings > in complete silence, with nothing moving but the mist. Then suddenly a group > of deers would scamper into the park. Not seeing me, they would nibble on the > trees and bushes. Then off in the far distance you could hear a westbound > begining to work its way up the hill. It would seem to take forever to make > its way to the curve. . . and it wouldn't be untill he reached the curve > propper that the deer would take flight. The WB would round the curve > sounding even louder in the early mormimg silence than he would in the mid > day.... then the sound would drift off to the west and the serenity would > return to the park, and sometimes the deers. If thats not heaven, I don't > know what is. And all that has been taken away! > > Jon S. > PRRT&HS #3079 > FRM of PA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:12:24 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Trees In a message dated 9/25/01 5:57:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net writes: << Maybe if so many of those who post feel so strongly about the restricted visitor hours at the curve, a letter or e-mail campaign should be mounted to alert the museum's BoD of your feelings and encourage some alternative plan to be worked out to encourage "off-peak" visitation hours. I think the museum would like to be as user friendly as possible and if tourism is going to decline due to the current war effort then every possible reason to keep the museum's revenue stream stable should be encouraged. Maybe the funicular does not have to operate "off-peak" but some simple accommodations could be put into place to keep it open earlier and/or later for those who desire a spiritual experience (I do not mean the Spirit of St Louis). Bennett >> Bennett, I wrote the museum aways back voicing my dismay to the restriction to the curve in the early hours. They told me it would be cost prohibitive to post someone out there in the AM as the visitor flow was to low (my reason for going). I wrote back saying that they didn't have to post any one there, that the funicular didn't have to operate and that all that was needed was to have an access to the stairs to get up to the park. They never wrote me back. I guess this is the cost of progress. Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:52:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Talasco Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Express Reefers Thanks to everyone who provided me with information, tips, book references, and even r50 plans!! I am getting ready to start building soon, and the help I have received will make it all possible. Thanks again!! Fred ===== Field Musick of His Majesty's 64th Regt. of Foot __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Trees Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:04:08 -0400 Bennett Levin wrote... > Maybe the funicular does not have to operate "off-peak" but some simple accommodations could be put into place to keep it open earlier and/or later for those who desire a spiritual experience (I do not mean the Spirit of St Louis). > Bennett is absolutely right. I, too, have had a "spiritual experience" on at least one Sunday morning in the manner Jon described. An e-mail campaign (perhaps it's already begun?) or other means of persuasion is absolutely in order--particularly now as tourism is negatively impacted, and as the Fall Foliage Season approaches quickly. Terry Stuart The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B 62 Beaver Street Fallston, PA 15066 www.forcomm.net/flagstop ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:52:30 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR movie clips JONS6755@aol.com wrote: > > Bill, > Heres two I bet no one mentions: > > 1. The Greatest Show On Earth > Shows footage of GG1s moving circus train in Meadow Yards in Kearny, NJ. > > 2. The Day The Earth Stood Still > Footage of GG1 sitting dead on main line. > > Jon S. Thanks Jon. I remembered "The Greatest Show" but forgot about TDTESS. Gort, Klaatu Barada Nikto. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:37:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Trees In a message dated 9/25/01 9:25:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JONS6755@aol.com writes: << They told me it would be cost prohibitive to post someone out there in the AM as the visitor flow was to low (my reason for going). >> With what has happened - litigation, terrorism and the mood of the country, better get used to a lot less tolerance of "railfans" or others around RR tracks. unsupervised< especially at odd hours. RR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:41:46 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR for the Railway 32 Screensaver Matthew, GREAT DRAWINGS! I hope other website link to your stuff. They could be very useful even beyond the Railway 32 screensaver. That's a hint to Rob Schoenberg ;-) I hope you have cabooses high on your to do list so that I can have freight trains rumble across my screen, even if , for the time being, they are all coal drags. I particularly appreciate having both loaded and empty hopper drawings so that I can run loads east and empties west! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Matthew J Brown wrote: > > I've been working on a project to do a PRR module for the Railway 32 > screensaver (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/HomePages/MarkGoodspeed) for more > than a year. Railway 32 is a shareware screensaver for Windows that depicts > a rail scene in side view and runs trains over it; the good thing is that > it's user extensible. Being a British program, the standard scenes and > trains are all UK prototypes, but it's been extended to cover a lot more than > that. > > What's just changed is that I've produced a web site to show off the current > state. The module is not finished, but I've drawn a large number of PRR > steam locomotives, a few diesels and electrics, and some cars, all at a scale > of 3 pixels per foot. It's at > > http://www.byz.org/~morven/Railway32/ > > The train pictures are all free to use, so if you want to put them on a web > page somewhere, that's fine -- I'd like to know where they go, but you don't > have to. > > And yes, I know a few inaccuracies are there -- the worst being that the I1s > boiler is too skinny. That's on the 'to fix' list. > > Hoping some of you can have fun with this! > > -Matt > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:47:31 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Railfest Dinner at Hoss's Greetings to the group, Well it's that time of year again. I'll be putting together our annual get together at the Altoona Hoss's. Let's plan to meet for dinner at 6:30 PM at the Altoona Hoss's located on Valley View Blvd at 7th Street. As in past years, please let me know if you are planing to attend the dinner. If you can't make the dinner, say hello to Andrew and me at the Juniata Shops Saturday morning. We will be manning the admissions tent from 8 AM till 1 PM. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 11:12:44 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh Division ETT's From: Jerry Britton Does anyone have an ETT for the Pittsburgh Division from 9/54? I am not 100% sure one was published. Not all divisions re-published semi-annually. I know there was a Pittsburgh Division ETT published in 4/54. It was designated #6. Does anyone have one from 4/55? If so, is it designated #8 or #7? Time is of the essence, as I have the opportunity to purchase one from 4/54, though I'd prefer 9/54. Thanks in advance! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 11:24:04 EDT From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [Fwd: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH] Oops, my error. Ralph Underhill was head basketball coach at Wright State University in Fairborn, Ohio, from late 1970s to early 1990s. Greg, You're right about the PRR yard in eastern Cincinnati being named Undercliff. Tom V. In a message dated Tue, 25 Sep 2001 8:17:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Gregg Mahlkov" writes: > Tom:- > > Wasn't the PRR yard at Cincinnati Undercliff, not Underhill? I worked for > the PRR in New Orleans, Cleveland and Baltimore 1962-1968. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:35 PM > Subject: [PRR] Re: [Fwd: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH] > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > Here's more info about Pennsy and DT&I lines in west Central Ohio than > you were bargaining for. Bear with me. I'll answer your question. . . > eventually. > > > > Through traffic on the PRR Springfield Branch, the original Little > Miami RR, pretty much ended with the closure of Crowles-Collier Publishing > Co.'s massive rotogravature printing plant on the east side of downtown > Springfield in March 1955 (I was born six months later, 9/18/55, in Dayton. > Prior to this event getting Collier's magazine into the hand of millions of > readers in the South, southern plains and Southwest was the primary source > of income for this segment of Ohio's first cross-state railine, the first > railroad connectibg a Great Lake port with any port on the Ohio or > Mississippi rivers. > > I'm looking for accurate information about the weekly Collier's > "special" that passed through Yellow Springs at about 7:30 p.m. eaxh Friday > just in time to disrupt the opening acts of plays presented on the Antioch > College campus as both theater building and all outdoor venues were just > acrosse Corry St. from the branchline tracks. > > I've been told the "Collier's Special" was usually seven or more baggage > or mail storage cars with an N-6 class cabin car in the rear pulled by a K-4 > 4-6-4 Pacific during the late 1940s until dieselization of the lines through > Xenia in August 1949 I have no info about motive power between 1949 and > 1955. Fairbanks-Morse H-10-44s or H-12-44s based in Xenia or Dayton did > local shfting turns while the huge 2,400 hp Lima-Hamilton LH24 or 2,500 hp > Lima-Hamilton-Baldwin LHB25 Center cab tansfer motors handled traffic > between the yards and facilities in Columbus, Xenia Dayton and Cincinnati. > > > > Now to your Question. From 1929 to 1964 the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton > RR was owned by the Pennroad Corp., a wholly-owned but independently > opeerated subsidiary of the Pennsylvania RailRoad Co. As part of the Norfolk > & Western, Nickel Plate Road and Wabaash merger of 1964, Pennroad purchased > the Ann Arbor Railroad and operated it jointly with the DT&I, Pennroad was > then spun off into a truly independent company. > > > > Stripped of a cozy relationship with the PRR, the new DT&I needed an > outlet to the south. As far as I can tell, there was little or no thru > traffic on the Springfield branch with its street trackage passing through > downtown Xenia on the west side of the Greene County Courthouse. The street > tracakage on Detroit Street (U.S. 68) was paved over circa 1964 between > intersections at Third Street two blocks south of the Courthouse (there is > no First Street) and Church Street, a block north of the courthouse. The > rails were removed when Detrot Street was rebuilt from the roadbeds up in > 1966. The two through girder highway overpasses between Xenia and YYellow > Springs were removed sometime during the early 1970s. All riverine bridges, > save one plate girder span across Oldtown Run at Oldtown, between > Springfield and Milford were preeserved and now carry the Little Miami > Scenic Trail. > > > > NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. I'm doing a bit of historical research in > Xenia. try to get me a more exact date and I'll look up the story in the > local newspapeer microfilm archieve, > > After the DT&I became independent in 1964, it needed connections across > the Ohio River at Cincinnati. From 1964 until the abandonment of portions > the Panhandle Mainline between Xenia and Cincinnati during the early 1970s > the DT&I used trackage rights from its crossing of the Columbus-Cincinnati > mainline at South Charleston to probably Underhill Yard, one of the nation's > first railyard on Cincinnati's east side. From then until final abandonment > of the Panhandle main between London, Ohio, and Clement on the eastere edge > of Dayton, the DT&I used trackage rights on the old PRR main into Dayton and > then south to Cincinnati on the ex-Big 4/NYC PC/CR mainline between Dayton > and Cincinnati. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Tom V. > > > > In a message dated Mon, 24 Sep 2001 8:19:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Jerry Jordak writes: > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > From seeing your posts on PRR-Talk, I know of your expertise on the > Pennsy > > > lines west of Columbus and especially around Xenia. I received this > e-mail > > > the other day and thought maybe you might know something about this > wreck > > > of which he speaks. Let me know if you might have any info. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Jerry > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > Subject: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH > > > Date: 21 Sep 2001 22:37:04 EDT > > > From: David Oroszi > > > > > > Do any of you have any information about a wreck tht occurred on the > PC/PRR > > > Xenia-Columbus line at Cedarville in April 1968? I am working on our > > > PRR/PC/CR book and we have two real good pictures of the wreck that I > want > > > to use.However, I have no information about the wreck, other than from > one > > > of the photographers that thought it was a DT&I train. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Oroszi > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 11:26:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pittsburgh Division ETT's From: Jerry Britton On 9/26/01 11:12 AM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > Does anyone have an ETT for the Pittsburgh Division from 9/54? > > I am not 100% sure one was published. Not all divisions re-published > semi-annually. > > I know there was a Pittsburgh Division ETT published in 4/54. It was > designated #6. > > Does anyone have one from 4/55? If so, is it designated #8 or #7? > > Time is of the essence, as I have the opportunity to purchase one from 4/54, > though I'd prefer 9/54. Thanks in advance! Yes, there was a #7 published in 9/54. Someone e-mailed me a jpeg of the cover. Thanks!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 11:24:03 EDT From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [Fwd: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH] Oops, my error. Ralph Underhill was head basketball coach at Wright State University in Fairborn, Ohio, from late 1970s to early 1990s. Greg, You're right about the PRR yard in eastern Cincinnati being named Undercliff. Tom V. In a message dated Tue, 25 Sep 2001 8:17:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Gregg Mahlkov" writes: > Tom:- > > Wasn't the PRR yard at Cincinnati Undercliff, not Underhill? I worked for > the PRR in New Orleans, Cleveland and Baltimore 1962-1968. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:35 PM > Subject: [PRR] Re: [Fwd: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH] > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > Here's more info about Pennsy and DT&I lines in west Central Ohio than > you were bargaining for. Bear with me. I'll answer your question. . . > eventually. > > > > Through traffic on the PRR Springfield Branch, the original Little > Miami RR, pretty much ended with the closure of Crowles-Collier Publishing > Co.'s massive rotogravature printing plant on the east side of downtown > Springfield in March 1955 (I was born six months later, 9/18/55, in Dayton. > Prior to this event getting Collier's magazine into the hand of millions of > readers in the South, southern plains and Southwest was the primary source > of income for this segment of Ohio's first cross-state railine, the first > railroad connectibg a Great Lake port with any port on the Ohio or > Mississippi rivers. > > I'm looking for accurate information about the weekly Collier's > "special" that passed through Yellow Springs at about 7:30 p.m. eaxh Friday > just in time to disrupt the opening acts of plays presented on the Antioch > College campus as both theater building and all outdoor venues were just > acrosse Corry St. from the branchline tracks. > > I've been told the "Collier's Special" was usually seven or more baggage > or mail storage cars with an N-6 class cabin car in the rear pulled by a K-4 > 4-6-4 Pacific during the late 1940s until dieselization of the lines through > Xenia in August 1949 I have no info about motive power between 1949 and > 1955. Fairbanks-Morse H-10-44s or H-12-44s based in Xenia or Dayton did > local shfting turns while the huge 2,400 hp Lima-Hamilton LH24 or 2,500 hp > Lima-Hamilton-Baldwin LHB25 Center cab tansfer motors handled traffic > between the yards and facilities in Columbus, Xenia Dayton and Cincinnati. > > > > Now to your Question. From 1929 to 1964 the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton > RR was owned by the Pennroad Corp., a wholly-owned but independently > opeerated subsidiary of the Pennsylvania RailRoad Co. As part of the Norfolk > & Western, Nickel Plate Road and Wabaash merger of 1964, Pennroad purchased > the Ann Arbor Railroad and operated it jointly with the DT&I, Pennroad was > then spun off into a truly independent company. > > > > Stripped of a cozy relationship with the PRR, the new DT&I needed an > outlet to the south. As far as I can tell, there was little or no thru > traffic on the Springfield branch with its street trackage passing through > downtown Xenia on the west side of the Greene County Courthouse. The street > tracakage on Detroit Street (U.S. 68) was paved over circa 1964 between > intersections at Third Street two blocks south of the Courthouse (there is > no First Street) and Church Street, a block north of the courthouse. The > rails were removed when Detrot Street was rebuilt from the roadbeds up in > 1966. The two through girder highway overpasses between Xenia and YYellow > Springs were removed sometime during the early 1970s. All riverine bridges, > save one plate girder span across Oldtown Run at Oldtown, between > Springfield and Milford were preeserved and now carry the Little Miami > Scenic Trail. > > > > NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. I'm doing a bit of historical research in > Xenia. try to get me a more exact date and I'll look up the story in the > local newspapeer microfilm archieve, > > After the DT&I became independent in 1964, it needed connections across > the Ohio River at Cincinnati. From 1964 until the abandonment of portions > the Panhandle Mainline between Xenia and Cincinnati during the early 1970s > the DT&I used trackage rights from its crossing of the Columbus-Cincinnati > mainline at South Charleston to probably Underhill Yard, one of the nation's > first railyard on Cincinnati's east side. From then until final abandonment > of the Panhandle main between London, Ohio, and Clement on the eastere edge > of Dayton, the DT&I used trackage rights on the old PRR main into Dayton and > then south to Cincinnati on the ex-Big 4/NYC PC/CR mainline between Dayton > and Cincinnati. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Tom V. > > > > In a message dated Mon, 24 Sep 2001 8:19:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Jerry Jordak writes: > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > From seeing your posts on PRR-Talk, I know of your expertise on the > Pennsy > > > lines west of Columbus and especially around Xenia. I received this > e-mail > > > the other day and thought maybe you might know something about this > wreck > > > of which he speaks. Let me know if you might have any info. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Jerry > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > Subject: PC/DT&I wreck at Cedarville, OH > > > Date: 21 Sep 2001 22:37:04 EDT > > > From: David Oroszi > > > > > > Do any of you have any information about a wreck tht occurred on the > PC/PRR > > > Xenia-Columbus line at Cedarville in April 1968? I am working on our > > > PRR/PC/CR book and we have two real good pictures of the wreck that I > want > > > to use.However, I have no information about the wreck, other than from > one > > > of the photographers that thought it was a DT&I train. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Oroszi > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:09:15 EDT Subject: [PRR] DC-9 and Undercliff Yard In a message dated 9/26/01 2:17:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LINESWEST@aol writes: << After the DT&I became independent in 1964, it needed connections across the Ohio River at Cincinnati. From 1964 until the abandonment of portions the Panhandle Mainline between Xenia and Cincinnati during the early 1970s the DT&I used trackage rights from its crossing of the Columbus-Cincinnati mainline at South Charleston to probably Underhill Yard, one of the nation's first railyard on Cincinnati's east side. >> Tom, These above statements deserve more research. I'm at home between back-to-back trips, so I hope the following makes sense: 1.According to Scott Trostel's book, DC-9/DC-8 were inaugurated on April 15, 1955 between Flat Rock Yard (DT&I yard south of Detroit and Dearborn) and Undercliff Yard (PRR Yard on the east side of Cincinnati). On page 196, we see DC-9 six days later leaving Springfield with one GP7 or GP9, 5 cars, and a PRR N6b (center cupola). On the next page, we see a much larger DC-8 arriving in Xenia from Cincinnati with two GP7's. 2. These trains served PRR and DT&I customers in a corridor where beating the NYC and the B&O between Detroit and Cincinnati was the goal. Speed of service was the issue for this traffic, much of which was autos and auto parts. 3. I don't know if Undercliff is one of the older yards in Ohio, but it looked 1900-ish to me. It's certainly not as old as the Pendleton Yard it replaced, which definitely goes back to at least 1843. Pendleton, a couple miles closer to Cincinnati, was the original terminal of the second railroad in Ohio (Little Miami Railroad), and still served as PRR/PC's engine terminal in Cincinnati until Undercliff was abandoned. 4. In fact, relevant to this discussion, there are color photos of DT&I Geeps off DC-9 laying over at Pendleton engine terminal waiting for their return on DC-8. At appropriate times, these were orange GP7's and 9's, then GP-35's (even Ann Arbor 35's when they were pooled with DT&I's motive power), and later the GP-38's and 40's after they were delivered. 5. After Undercliff closed, the DT&I shifted to ex-NYC Sharonville Yard. Of course, eventually Conrail became a potent competitor. At that point the DT&I ran its trains into L&N's DeCoursey Yard in northern Kentucky, and had another pair of DC trains that ran into Southern's Gest Street Yard. Today, inheritor Grand Trunk Western is running these trains into CSX Queensgate and into NS' Gest Street, both in sight of Cincinnati Union Terminal in Cincinnati's Mill Creek Valley. See Trostel's The Detroit Toledo and Ironton Railroad, and also Hickox' new DT&I in Color (just out and full of operational details) for more info. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Patrick Grace" Subject: [PRR] Sidewalks Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:19:53 +0100 While is was up at my local model railway club last night, we were discussing what exactly an American sidewalk of the 1960's was made of and how wide it would be. The model is based on Colorado, due to the fact that most of our N gauge group prefer western roads.. I model mainly in HO and therefore do not exactly have a lot of N gauge PRR stock.. If any one knows what small town Colorado would use for sidewalks on main street please contact me off list Patrick Grace pgrace@aspects.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:31:40 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS P5 Book Chuck Blardone is finishing up the society's latest book which will be on the class P5 motor. It'll be a soft bound picture book, no larger (and probably smaller than) the Altoona book. Fred Westing text, a lot of photos (many historic, with other early electric classes represented). He would like to use ICC wreck reports for incidents involving P5 motors and has one for 1/3/34. Does anyone know of any other wrecks involving the class P5? Al ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ujOgTC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS P5 Book Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:31:40 -0400 Chuck Blardone is finishing up the society's latest book which will be on the class P5 motor. It'll be a soft bound picture book, no larger (and probably smaller than) the Altoona book. Fred Westing text, a lot of photos (many historic, with other early electric classes represented). He would like to use ICC wreck reports for incidents involving P5 motors and has one for 1/3/34. Does anyone know of any other wrecks involving the class P5? Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "CSX Enterprise, Chief Engineer" Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 22:43:30 +0000 Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR THINGS FOR RAILWAY SCREENSAVER32 Matt, Andy, I had looked at this screen saver about a month ago, it's a lot of fun. I found the following PRR Equipment already available: A3, B6, I1, K4, L1, Q1, T1, BP60, GG1, RSD4. Was all of that your work Matt? Many other engines were available, though not in PRR paint. PRR rolling stock that I found at that time were mostly hoppers, almost all the classes were represented. Additionally there are dozen of cars and engines for other US railroads available, from the steam era right up to today's cars and power. US running modules are available for Amtrak, Feather River Canyon, Desert Dunes, SF Depot in San Diego, and a number of others. I don't have any access to the web from here, nor do I have the URL's with me. Most of this information was found at or linked from the Screensaver32 club or group on Yahoo. There was much more available there, I just didn't download it all. You may also download a demo version of the program and get instructions on how to register there. As much as I'd like to see more now, we can't download any graphics at this site. Send anything like that to me at DEMCNEIL@GTE.NET. I'll get to see it next month. Right now I'm on a slow boat to China. Regards, Dave McNeil Chief Engineer CSX Enterprise Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR for the Railway 32 Screensaver From: "Andrew S. Miller" Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:41:46 -0400 Matthew, GREAT DRAWINGS! I hope other website link to your stuff. They could be very useful even beyond the Railway 32 screensaver. That's a hint to Rob Schoenberg ;-) I hope you have cabooses high on your to do list so that I can have freight trains rumble across my screen, even if , for the time being, they are all coal drags. I particularly appreciate having both loaded and empty hopper drawings so that I can run loads east and empties west! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Matthew J Brown Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR THINGS FOR RAILWAY SCREENSAVER32 Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:15:26 -0700 On Thursday 27 September 2001 03:43 pm, CSX Enterprise, Chief Engineer wrote: > I had looked at this screen saver about a month ago, it's a lot of fun. I > found the following PRR Equipment already available: A3, B6, I1, K4, L1, > Q1, T1, BP60, GG1, RSD4. Was all of that your work Matt? All the PRR steam was mine (that was a Q2, not a Q1), the electrics, and the Centipede. I believe the RSD4 and some others were John Murdock's. > Many other engines were available, though not in PRR paint. PRR rolling > stock that I found at that time were mostly hoppers, almost all the classes > were represented. I found John Teichmoeller's book and went to town on those ;) > Additionally there are dozen of cars and engines for other US railroads > available, from the steam era right up to today's cars and power. 90% of the other American stuff is the work of John Murdock, with some work by others. Thanks, -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 05:02:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Fred Westing Hello list, I was reading that PRRT&HS will publish a book on the P5 with text by Fred Westing. I'm a big fan of Apex of the Atlantics and Pennsy Steam & Semaphores. Another book I can think of that he wrote were The Locomotives that Baldwin Built. Aside from his excellent articles in Trains, what other books did he author? When did Mr. Westing pass away, and what was his lifespan? Thanks in advance! Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:18:19 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Fred Westing Doug, I'm not at home to look at my bookshelves, but one of Fred Westing's books that comes to mind is "Penn Station-It's Tunnels and Siderodders" or something similar. For what it's worth, I'm going to be thinning my library this fall and will most likely try to sell this book via email lists, along with quite a few others. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 12:23:54 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] PRR railing castings Many years ago somebody offered lost wax castings of the PRR standard cast railings. These are the vertical support pieces that pipe was slipped into to form railings. I haven't seen them for years. Does anybody know of a source in HO? Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 12:32:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR railing castings From: Jerry Britton On 9/28/01 12:23 PM, NDBPRR@aol.com (NDBPRR@aol.com) wrote: > Many years ago somebody offered lost wax castings of the PRR standard cast > railings. These are the vertical support pieces that pipe was slipped into to > form railings. I haven't seen them for years. Does anybody know of a source > in HO? Thanks, Norm Bell For some time I had sold the brass ones made by The P Company. I no longer deal with The P Company, but I know they still have tons of them. They offered both two-rail and three-rail versions, in 45' and 85' lengths, four pieces per kit. (These same kits were marketed for some time by Pikestuff.) Model Railroad Stoneworks (http://www.modelrailroadstoneworks.com) also offers the two-pipe version for use with their bridges. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR railing castings Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 12:45:35 -0400 One of the Divisions of Bethlehem Car Shops offered the stanchions in plastic. I do not know if they are still offered by BCW. Dennis mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com Featuring over 10,000 IN-STOCK model railroad items 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 > Many years ago somebody offered lost wax castings of the PRR standard cast railings. These are the vertical support pieces that pipe was slipped into to form railings. I haven't seen them for years. Does anybody know of a source in HO? Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 12:42:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR railing castings On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Jerry Britton wrote: > On 9/28/01 12:23 PM, NDBPRR@aol.com (NDBPRR@aol.com) wrote: > > > Many years ago somebody offered lost wax castings of the PRR standard cast > > railings. These are the vertical support pieces that pipe was slipped into to > > form railings. I haven't seen them for years. Does anybody know of a source > > in HO? Thanks, Norm Bell > > For some time I had sold the brass ones made by The P Company. I no longer > deal with The P Company, but I know they still have tons of them. They > offered both two-rail and three-rail versions, in 45' and 85' lengths, four > pieces per kit. (These same kits were marketed for some time by Pikestuff.) > > Model Railroad Stoneworks (http://www.modelrailroadstoneworks.com) also > offers the two-pipe version for use with their bridges. Paul Backenstose also offers some (but I think only the 2 pipe version) in plastic. I might be able to find his address when I'm back on that side of the Atlantic. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR railing castings Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 12:56:11 -0400 Make that Bethlehem Car Works. > One of the Divisions of Bethlehem Car Shops offered the stanchions in > plastic. I do not know if they are still offered by BCW. > > Dennis > mailto: dennis@onerrave.com > > D & S HOBBIES > http://www.onerrave.com Featuring over 10,000 IN-STOCK model > railroad items > 34 Main Street > South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 > > > > > > Many years ago somebody offered lost wax castings of the PRR standard cast > railings. These are the vertical support pieces that pipe was slipped into > to form railings. I haven't seen them for years. Does anybody know of a > source in HO? Thanks, Norm Bell > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: [PRR] Let's 'Get Back on Track' Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:09:37 -0400 Michael R. Young, the General Manager of KDKA Radio in Pittsburgh, editorializes as follows... 'In defining the difference between a coward and a hero, the distinction lies in how they face adversity.' I like that. And I think it has an important application to our favorite hobby. Many railfans are discussing the 'adversity' they feel they are facing in the wake of the September 11th terrorist attacks on the United States. For example, we can no longer trace rolling stock on the CSX website. And there is a notion that we will somehow face penalties if we appear trackside with our scanners and cameras. Apparently we are 'supposed' to simply retreat to our book and photo collections, or 'railfan from a distance.' I strongly feel this reaction is exactly the OPPOSITE of what President George W. Bush meant in several of his recent speeches, including the one in Chicago where he urged Americans to begin flying once again. More comment will follow shortly on the above, but the desire of the President is that Americans return to their normal activities. The terrorists want us to be too frightened to lead our normal lives. We must, instead, do precisely that--we must lead our normal lives. Some of our 'conveniences,' like the CSX Trace service, may be temporarily suspended. But the trains are running, and as the stock market rebounds railroads will be operating longer trains in greater numbers. The trains are running for us to watch, to log, to photograph, to videotape. There was nothing illegal about the manner in which most of us were doing that before September 11th, and there is nothing illegal about continuing to do that today. We need to 'get back on track.' We need to get out and railfan. And with the Fall Foliage Season quickly approaching, the opportunities for great photography and videography are that much more profound. If you feel you must railfan from a 'safe locaction,' my own railfan B&B (The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP) as well as similar facilities offer secure, private-property locations from which to aim your cameras. And aim them we must. That's what the President is telling us to do. Back to his Chicago speech for a moment, and our second challenge: America is the only nation in the World which forces its citizens to choose between automobiles and aircraft for even short-distance travel in the majority of cases. Throughout the European continent, in Japan, Austrailia, India, Africa... indeed, throughout the World, passengers routinely board railroad trains to travel distances up to, say, 500 miles. Yet now we see the Congress bailing out the airline industry, much of which was already in dire financial straits before the September 11th attacks. We need airlines, to be sure. But we also need a rational passenger transportation system in the United States. And NOW is the perfect time to put it into place. Write your Congressman, your local newspaper editor, and President Bush. Urge Congressional passage of the High Speed Rail Investment Act (HSRIA) this year. S.250/H.R.2329 is a bipartisan bill to provide $12 billion in passenger rail capital bonds over ten years. HSRIA would provide, for the first time, a dedicated, steady, federal share of capital funding for passenger rail projects. A state match of 20% is also required. If passenger rail is ever to be expanded and improved in this country, such a federal partnership will be necessary. These two efforts, one personal and one public, should occupy our time and energy in the immediate future. Let's get out and railfan--just like we were doing before September 11th. And let's point to September 11th and realize that a strong rail passenger network is a strategic need for the 'ordinary traveler.' It's fine that 'Big Business' pays the way for the vast majority of airline travelers. Of course, we all know who REALLY pays. It's also fine that we have airplanes available for long-distance trips across this vast United States. But it makes no sense whatsoever for passengers traveling between New York and Washington, Boston and Washington, Cleveland and Columbus, Pittsburgh and Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Harrisburg, and dozens of other similar combinations of cities to trek to two airports and herd themselves onto aircraft to make those kinds of journeys. And that was true long before airport security began increasing those trips by two to three additional hours. Now comes our chance to save Amtrak and our rail passenger network, and to provide ourselves not only with the pleasures of rail travel but the rewards of increased train traffic for railfanning enjoyment. Let's railfan, and let's write letters. And let's get back to being Active Americans! Terry Stuart The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B 62 Beaver Street Fallston, PA 15066 www.forcomm.net/flagstop ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRR5499@att.net Subject: [PRR] PRR Keystone Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 16:35:09 +0000 Friends of the PRR, I would like to comment on the latest PRR Keystone. I feel it was the finest copy made for a long time. The T-1 artical was great. There was only one thing that bothered me . The information on PRR #6799 was wrong. I personally know the man who fired it, And took the picture. He was also disappointed that he didn't get credit for the picture. For your info ,the tender was attached and it was not in a scrap line.just the repair dead line,at Columbus Ohio in 1949. Thanks for your time, Ed Case ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 13:56:14 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Class P5 Motor Wreck Photos Needed Friends, Chuck Blardone needs wreck photos for the upcoming class P5 motor book. Especially the 5/13/59 wreck in Frazier, Pa. He has seen an overhead shot of it that's spectacular. Please contact Chuck directly if you can assist him, his address is in the cc box. Thanx. Al ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ujOgTC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Class P5 Motor Wreck Photos Needed Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 13:56:14 -0400 Friends, Chuck Blardone needs wreck photos for the upcoming class P5 motor book. Especially the 5/13/59 wreck in Frazier, Pa. He has seen an overhead shot of it that's spectacular. Please contact Chuck directly if you can assist him, his address is in the cc box. Thanx. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Nelson" Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:26:00 -0700 Subject: [PRR-FAX] ICC Accident Reports for PRRT&HS P5 Book > He would like to use ICC wreck reports for incidents involving P5 motors and > has one for 1/3/34. > > Does anyone know of any other wrecks involving the class P5? Chuck and Al: The U.S. Dept. of Transportation has copies of ICC accident reports (1911-1966) online with a searchable index. It is most easily searched if you know the accident date. It can be found at the following address: http://specialcollections.tasc.dot.gov/ Doug Nelson Mill Valley, CA P.S. I remember seeing some excellent P-5 photos in passenger service at Washington Union Station in the PRR photo collection at the Hagley Library. I believe they were listed under electric locomotives. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ujOgTC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:26:00 -0700 Subject: [PRR] ICC Accident Reports for PRRT&HS P5 Book From: "Douglas Nelson" > He would like to use ICC wreck reports for incidents involving P5 motors and > has one for 1/3/34. > > Does anyone know of any other wrecks involving the class P5? Chuck and Al: The U.S. Dept. of Transportation has copies of ICC accident reports (1911-1966) online with a searchable index. It is most easily searched if you know the accident date. It can be found at the following address: http://specialcollections.tasc.dot.gov/ Doug Nelson Mill Valley, CA P.S. I remember seeing some excellent P-5 photos in passenger service at Washington Union Station in the PRR photo collection at the Hagley Library. I believe they were listed under electric locomotives. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mike Morrow" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR railing casting Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 14:45:47 -0400 I purchased some railing stanchions at Timonium last year from the guy who made those beautiful stone arch viaduct castings of the Rockville Bridge. I don't remember his name. I'm sure someone else does though. Mike Morrow PRRT&HS #6703 The Elmira Branch 1956-57 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 16:16:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR railing casting Mike - Model Railroad StoneWork's out of Langhorne, PA phone # 215-321-1331 fax # 215-321-1332 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] PRR G30 brake lever Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 18:45:56 -0400 Okay I am working on my Tichy G30 for the PRR. Decided to use National Type B trucks. The PRR didn't use the ajax brake wheel, but instead used a Kasling Brake Lever. Does anyone know of a suitable detail to model this lever in HO. Finally, does anyone know where I can locate a photo of a G30a, rebuilt with steel sides. Thanks in Advance Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hanel29@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Let's 'Get Back on Track' Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 01:06:30 +0000 Terry - Excellent exposition of the current situation regarding railfanning, passenger rail, and airline shortcomings. I, for one, will write my state and federal representatives and urge them to take a realistic look at our travel future in this country. HIGH SPEED RAIL for distances under 500 miles is possible in one-half the time it takes to get from urban center to the airport, through security, through taxi time, through takeoff, flight, landing, taxi in, deplane, get baggage and then find a way into the urban center. And all with minimum weather delays. We've been lying to ourselves for a long time ! Thanks for the spur ! HANK. > Michael R. Young, the General Manager of KDKA Radio in Pittsburgh, > editorializes as follows... > > 'In defining the difference between a coward and a hero, the distinction > lies in how they face adversity.' > > I like that. And I think it has an important application to our favorite > hobby. > > Many railfans are discussing the 'adversity' they feel they are facing in > the wake of the September 11th terrorist attacks on the United States. For > example, we can no longer trace rolling stock on the CSX website. And there > is a notion that we will somehow face penalties if we appear trackside with > our scanners and cameras. Apparently we are 'supposed' to simply retreat to > our book and photo collections, or 'railfan from a distance.' > > I strongly feel this reaction is exactly the OPPOSITE of what President > George W. Bush meant in several of his recent speeches, including the one in > Chicago where he urged Americans to begin flying once again. > > More comment will follow shortly on the above, but the desire of the > President is that Americans return to their normal activities. The > terrorists want us to be too frightened to lead our normal lives. We must, > instead, do precisely that--we must lead our normal lives. > > Some of our 'conveniences,' like the CSX Trace service, may be temporarily > suspended. But the trains are running, and as the stock market rebounds > railroads will be operating longer trains in greater numbers. The trains > are running for us to watch, to log, to photograph, to videotape. There was > nothing illegal about the manner in which most of us were doing that before > September 11th, and there is nothing illegal about continuing to do that > today. > > We need to 'get back on track.' We need to get out and railfan. And with > the Fall Foliage Season quickly approaching, the opportunities for great > photography and videography are that much more profound. > > If you feel you must railfan from a 'safe locaction,' my own railfan B&B > (The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP) as well as similar facilities offer secure, > private-property locations from which to aim your cameras. > > And aim them we must. That's what the President is telling us to do. > > Back to his Chicago speech for a moment, and our second challenge: > > America is the only nation in the World which forces its citizens to choose > between automobiles and aircraft for even short-distance travel in the > majority of cases. > > Throughout the European continent, in Japan, Austrailia, India, Africa... > indeed, throughout the World, passengers routinely board railroad trains to > travel distances up to, say, 500 miles. > > Yet now we see the Congress bailing out the airline industry, much of which > was already in dire financial straits before the September 11th attacks. > > We need airlines, to be sure. > > But we also need a rational passenger transportation system in the United > States. > > And NOW is the perfect time to put it into place. > > Write your Congressman, your local newspaper editor, and President Bush. > > Urge Congressional passage of the High Speed Rail Investment Act (HSRIA) > this year. S.250/H.R.2329 is a bipartisan bill to provide $12 billion in > passenger rail capital bonds over ten years. HSRIA would provide, for the > first time, a dedicated, steady, federal share of capital funding for > passenger rail projects. A state match of 20% is also required. > > If passenger rail is ever to be expanded and improved in this country, such > a federal partnership will be necessary. > > These two efforts, one personal and one public, should occupy our time and > energy in the immediate future. > > Let's get out and railfan--just like we were doing before September 11th. > > And let's point to September 11th and realize that a strong rail passenger > network is a strategic need for the 'ordinary traveler.' > > It's fine that 'Big Business' pays the way for the vast majority of airline > travelers. > > Of course, we all know who REALLY pays. > > It's also fine that we have airplanes available for long-distance trips > across this vast United States. > > But it makes no sense whatsoever for passengers traveling between New York > and Washington, Boston and Washington, Cleveland and Columbus, Pittsburgh > and Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Harrisburg, and dozens of other similar > combinations of cities to trek to two airports and herd themselves onto > aircraft to make those kinds of journeys. > > And that was true long before airport security began increasing those trips > by two to three additional hours. > > Now comes our chance to save Amtrak and our rail passenger network, and to > provide ourselves not only with the pleasures of rail travel but the rewards > of increased train traffic for railfanning enjoyment. > > Let's railfan, and let's write letters. > > And let's get back to being Active Americans! > > Terry Stuart > The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B > 62 Beaver Street > Fallston, PA 15066 > www.forcomm.net/flagstop > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 16:22:53 -0400 From: "Michael A. Hmel" Subject: [PRR] washington dc loco wreck ! Hi list , Could someone tell me the date of the PRR run-away loco wreck at Union Station in Washington DC . I saw an earlier correspondence to the list today that contained the : http://specialcollections.tasc.dot.gov/ web site address and I wanted to gather some info on it . Thanks , Mike ( PRR T&H S ) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 17:03:07 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] washington dc loco wreck ! "Michael A. Hmel" wrote: > Could someone tell me the date of the PRR run-away loco wreck at Union > Station in Washington DC. 15 January, 1952, just before Eisenhower's inauguration. (I bet a google (or other) search on GG1 wreck washington would find the date & info. I used: Middleton When the ....) > I saw an earlier correspondence to the list today that contained the: > http://specialcollections.tasc.dot.gov/ > web site address and I wanted to gather some info on it . Why did it take them so long to get the engine out? No one could find the check. (Checked Baggage room was in the area. No ticket, no luggage.) > Thanks , best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 17:21:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Talasco Subject: [PRR] PRR tunnel wire train I am looking to model the NYC tunnel wire train in O Scale. I have located a DD1, and am now searching for info on the MOW equipment that was part of the train itself. Can anyone refer me to a source for photos, plans, drawings, etc of this train? Thanks!! Fred ===== Field Musick of His Majesty's 64th Regt. of Foot __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!!