From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Position Light Signals/STOP signal,Red Lenses Date: Fri, 10 Aug 101 18:56:04 -0400 (EDT) David Hopson scribit: > > Position Lights in a heavy fog or heavy rain can be seen BUT it's > hard to make out the aspect of the signal. Yellow lights looks like a > yellow haze in bad weather. "PROCEED,APPROACH,MEDIUM CLEAR" all start to > look the same in bad weather. Dave, though this is true, it is only true because PRR signals were ALL yellow EXCEPT for those two red lights. However, on other roads, where you could have red in 2 or 3 positions, your rule no longer is helpful. > A RED light in bad weather can only mean STOP. This, unfortunately, is not the case. Red lamps are included in the following signal aspects: Stop Stop and proceed Restricting Medium Clear Limited Clear Slow Approach Medium Approach Of course, there is one final rule that always applies: if you can't tell what the signal is supposed to be, stop the train if you have to and check it. And if it is imperfectly displayed, you must assume the most restrictive aspect from what remains displayed. Failure to observe this rule resulted in a wreck in the Canadian Prairies not all that long ago. > Pennsy must have relized this for them to change the color of the > lenses. I think in 1952, the Pitts. Div. was the first to get the RED > lenses treatment because of the heavy fog and snow. It's also in one of > the Pitts Div. ETT from the early 50s as a General Order. John already commented on the removal of the red lenses from OVERBROOK. The systematic implementation of red lenses was limited to locations west and north of Harrisburg. There were exceptions, however (e.g. Dayton; anyone know of others?) Interlocking home signals got the treatment; automatic signals did not. (Did manual block territories get red lenses? Sandusky Branch? Zanesville Branch?) -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Detectors in 1950's Date: Fri, 10 Aug 101 19:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Jerry Britton scribit: > > If there's not a prototypical/era way to do it, I may stick with the verbal > detectors and call it "modeler's license". You could instead ring a bell, and pretend it's the annunciator bell at the next block station ("tower") down the line. Or if you have a station nearby, you could do a train arrival announcement over the station's loudspeakers. Of course, this would be prototypical for passenger trains only. For freights ... ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Detectors in 1950's Date: Fri, 10 Aug 101 19:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Andrew S. Miller scribit: > > Jerry, > > How about just having an approach lighted signal come on? Jerry's territory would include approach-lighted signals west of Harrisburg, but not east thereof. At least not prototypically. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "E. Mike" Subject: Re: [PRR] Position Light Signals Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 04:14:03 +0000 Red lights were installed on the Main Line between Overbrook and Paoli in the 50's. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (David Hopson) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Position Light Signals: Stop Signal/Red Lenses Hello Todd, In the early 1950s,PRR changed the "STOP" position aspect to a "STOP" with red lenses with the center bulb out. This only applies to HOME signals and INTERLOCKING signals. PRR's automatic and "A.P."(approach-lit) signals were not changed I think the Pittsburgh Div. was the first place this was tried. RED is a whole lot easier to see in the fog or heavy rain. YELLOW aspects can be confusing in the rain. I rode an E44 out of Greenwich Yard long hood forward in the rain. I couldn't see the end of the locomotive! I couldn't see the signals either. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:31:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Position Light Signals: Stop Signal/Red Lenses In a message dated 7/31/01 11:54:16 PM Central Daylight Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: << RED is a whole lot easier to see in the fog or heavy rain. YELLOW aspects can be confusing in the rain. >> I have to respectfully ask if you have some documentation for this statement. For one, I was under the impression that the position light system was used because of the opposite fact, i.e., the yellow was more visible. For two, I might have a color problem with the ol' cones and rods personally, but I could absolutely see the clear "Proceed" better than the red "Stop" on the signals at Hammond-Whiting-Colehour on Conrail, snow, rain, fog or shine. In fact it was so noticable to me the first time that I wondered which idiots decided to replace a good system. I will check my videos again for the effect in fog to be sure, as I haven't been there for a couple years, but that is the way I remember it. One reason I remember it is that the signals there are such that you always know when a train is coming on two of the three tracks.They are normally red and then approach lighted "Proceed". I can be sitting in my car, with four signals lighted red that I can barely see and a switch to "Proceed" I will pick up almost instantly with peripheral vision in a rear view mirror, even if I am reading. I can see where, assuming you can see the signal at all, the red is certainly less ambiguous for a stop. YMMV, of course. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (David Hopson) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Position Light Signals/STOP signal,Red Lenses Hello Bob, Well the proof I have is based on ex-PRR employees accounts. I live across the street from a PRR/Penn Central engineman. I went on a few cab rides with him when I was a kid and he would teach me how to read PL signals. Position Lights in a heavy fog or heavy rain can be seen BUT it's hard to make out the aspect of the signal. Yellow lights looks like a yellow haze in bad weather. "PROCEED,APPROACH,MEDIUM CLEAR" all start to look the same in bad weather. A RED light in bad weather can only mean STOP. Pennsy must have relized this for them to change the color of the lenses. I think in 1952, the Pitts. Div. was the first to get the RED lenses treatment because of the heavy fog and snow. It's also in one of the Pitts Div. ETT from the early 50s as a General Order. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:12:56 -0700 Subject: RE: [PRR] Track assignment Hi, Thanks everyone for the illuminating responses. Lots of good info and lots of good leads for more. - Claus > I'm doing a bit of layout design, and > I've got a question regarding PRR design > practice. > > In areas of four-track main line (in particular > I'm thinking of the trackage on the former New > York division, which is now the present-day > the NE corridor route, say in New Jersey between > Newark & Elizabeth...) were the track directions > normally assigned such that the two > westbound tracks were adjacent, and the two > eastbound tracks were adjacent, in this manner: > > <============ > <============ > ============> > ============> > > or were they normally intermixed, > in this manner: > > <============ > ============> > <============ > ============> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:36:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Position Light Signals/STOP signal,Red Lenses In a message dated 8/1/01 8:57:47 AM Central Daylight Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: << Position Lights in a heavy fog or heavy rain can be seen BUT it's hard to make out the aspect of the signal. Yellow lights looks like a yellow haze in bad weather. >> I concede that that might be a problem, i.e., the ambiguity. I also just had a thought that, although I am looking at the signals from a quarter mile away, at a greater distance (such as that required to slow or stop at train) it would be worse. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Position Light Signals Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:52:14 -0700 From: "John Cooper" Red lenses were installed only at Overbrook, not Bryn Mawr nor Paoli. I'm pretty sure this was the only installation anywhere in electrified territory. Removed in the early/mid 70s. John > ---------- > From: E. Mike[SMTP:evillmike@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:14 PM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Position Light Signals > > Red lights were installed on the Main Line between Overbrook and Paoli > in > the 50's. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Position Light Signals/STOP signal,Red Lenses Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:41:40 -0700 From: "John Cooper" > ---------- > From: Bobspf@aol.com[SMTP:Bobspf@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:36 AM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Position Light Signals/STOP signal,Red Lenses > > I concede that that might be a problem, i.e., the ambiguity. I also > just had > a thought that, although I am looking at the signals from a quarter > mile > away, at a greater distance (such as that required to slow or stop at > train) > it would be worse. > > The engineer should never have to discern an indication from a quarter mile away. The signal he's looking at doesn't govern until he's past it. The previous signal he passed is what governs up until that point. Thus the engineer only has to discern the indication when he's right up on it. And of course the cab signals would clear up any confusion too. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (David Hopson) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Position Light Signals/ RED stop aspect The Norfolk & Western ( Pennsy's cousin) also had the RED stop aspect on thier PL signals. I might be wrong but I think N&W changed thier signals in the late 40s before PRR. I have a movie from the early 50s at SLOPE with a J1 Texas type underneath SLOPE's home signals and the stop aspect is red on the PL. To be honest, I think the B&O's PL signals are the easiest to read. B&O's lenses were bigger and brighter than PRR's "cone type" lenses. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:16:38 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: K4s Question From: John Sheets Gary > Is this > curve measured in degrees or is it measured in feet. If the actual > radius is known please inform me and supply a source this can be found > in. Evidently this info is needed for trackage at the Railroad Memorial > Museum in Altoona. Seems they are making plans for the K4... I too am not aware of any published info, BUT all of the PRR ETT's list engine restrictions/or speed allowed on industrial or secondary trackage. While I only have them for Eastern Region, NY-Phila for the late 1940's, if they can find one for Altoona area from the time period the K-4's were still in service, they can see where they were permitted or restricted, and if any of those tracks are still around, it may help them. They are listed under SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS, ENGINE RESTRICTIONS John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (David Hopson) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Postion Light Signals Mr Cooper, Traveling down the Trenton Cutoff at 60mph and a mile of trailers behind you, looking at a PL signal from a quarter mile is not too far off. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR EP-22's Lists, Once again the shops at Juniata Terminal turned out another masterpiece. Mr. Levin and crew took no time restoring Conrail E8 back to PRR #5711. Looks like twins sitting with sister E8 #5809. Reminds me of looking at a Don Ball's color photo in his many books. Bennett has thanked many people for this effort. I think Bennett deserves the biggest Thank You. For if his purchase of these Locos did not happen, many of us of the younger generation would have missed out in seeing a little of the Pennsy brought back to life. Hope to be there in Altoona to see them in person. Be sure to check these out at http://www.prrths.com/Phila_PRR5711_07_22_01.htm Thanks to Steve also for documenting these too...... Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR EP-22's Lists, Once again the shops at Juniata Terminal turned out another masterpiece. Mr. Levin and crew took no time restoring Conrail E8 back to PRR #5711. Looks like twins sitting with sister E8 #5809. Reminds me of looking at a Don Ball's color photo in his many books. Bennett has thanked many people for this effort. I think Bennett deserves the biggest Thank You. For if his purchase of these Locos did not happen, many of us of the younger generation would have missed out in seeing a little of the Pennsy brought back to life. Hope to be there in Altoona to see them in person. Be sure to check these out at http://www.prrths.com/Phila_PRR5711_07_22_01.htm Thanks to Steve also for documenting these too...... Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:29:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: K4s Question From: Jerry Britton On 8/1/01 3:16 PM, John Sheets (john@mpa-inc.com) wrote: >> Is this >> curve measured in degrees or is it measured in feet. If the actual >> radius is known please inform me and supply a source this can be found >> in. Evidently this info is needed for trackage at the Railroad Memorial >> Museum in Altoona. Seems they are making plans for the K4... > > I too am not aware of any published info, BUT all of the PRR ETT's list > engine restrictions/or speed allowed on industrial or secondary trackage. > > While I only have them for Eastern Region, NY-Phila for the late 1940's, if > they can find one for Altoona area from the time period the K-4's were still > in service, they can see where they were permitted or restricted, and if any > of those tracks are still around, it may help them. > > They are listed under SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS, ENGINE RESTRICTIONS > My "Keystone Crossings" site has a 1955 Middle Division ETT available for download. See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/ett.html ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Position Light Signals Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:25:53 -0700 From: "John Cooper" Speed and train length don't matter. There is no compromise in safety if you can't discern a signal until you're right on it. (Though there may be some additional premature gray hair for engineer) Signal spacing is calculated from stopping distances, brake application latency, maximum authorized speed, etc, and does not include a quarter mile "pre-discernment" of the indication. John > ---------- > From: David Hopson[SMTP:zootowerprr@webtv.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:17 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Postion Light Signals > > > Mr Cooper, > Traveling down the Trenton Cutoff at 60mph and a mile of trailers > behind you, looking at a PL signal from a quarter mile is not too far > off. > Dave > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:41:58 -0500 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR EP-22's Gary Mittner wrote: > > Lists, > > Once again the shops at Juniata Terminal turned out another > masterpiece. Mr. Levin and crew took no time restoring Conrail E8 back > to PRR #5711. Looks like twins sitting with sister E8 #5809. Reminds me > of looking at a Don Ball's color photo in his many books. Bennett has > thanked many people for this effort. I think Bennett deserves the > biggest Thank You. For if his purchase of these Locos did not happen, > many of us of the younger generation would have missed out in seeing a > little of the Pennsy brought back to life. Hope to be there in Altoona > to see them in person. Be sure to check these out at > http://www.prrths.com/Phila_PRR5711_07_22_01.htm Thanks to Steve also > for documenting these too...... Gary Gary, I couldn't agree more with your sentiments. What's all the more amazing is that Juniata Terminal Company was able to accomplish all this work on both engines within one year's time. Bennett, Eric, Al, Steve and the whole crew deserve our gratitude in the restoration and archiving of these EP-22's. They are one class act. BTW, can you imagine the expressions of the train crews and passengers as they pass JTC and see those twins (with #120 in tow) sitting outside the building? That would be worth a whole page of photos. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: prrbill Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:41:58 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] PRR EP-22's Gary, I couldn't agree more with your sentiments. What's all the more amazing is that Juniata Terminal Company was able to accomplish all this work on both engines within one year's time. Bennett, Eric, Al, Steve and the whole crew deserve our gratitude in the restoration and archiving of these EP-22's. They are one class act. BTW, can you imagine the expressions of the train crews and passengers as they pass JTC and see those twins (with #120 in tow) sitting outside the building? That would be worth a whole page of photos. Bill Morlitz ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: K4s Question (minimum radius) Jerry, John, Good idea about the time tables. I have a webtv so I can't open the kind of files you have Jerry. Answer could be in there somewhere. This is what I have found out so far by just reading books. The question was, what is the minimum radius a K4 could handle? I found out that Horseshoe Curve is laid out at a 9° curvature. We know that is pretty sharp. No problem for a K4 though. We know the westbound departing track out of Penn Station in Pittsburgh was 12°. This was so sharp it prohibited M1 Locos. So I am assuming a K4 could handle a curve up to about 15° Does this sound correct? I wouldn't want to say this for certain to the track layers and find out afterwards that 15° is to sharpe to negotiate. The consulting firm wants docummented proof. I believe this track is for the Museum grounds. High seed does not have to be figured in. Just slow speed movement........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: K4s Question (minimum radius) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:44:24 -0400 The current Keystone had an article about placing the K4 on the curve and talked about pulling over one of the main tracks to put the loco on the curve. I'm at work and don't remember if it gave any numbers for the curvature or just described how the initial approach yielded a curve that was too tight... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Gary > Mittner > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 5:08 PM > To: Jerry Britton; PRR@egroups.com > Cc: John Sheets; PRR Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: K4s Question (minimum radius) > > > Jerry, John, > > Good idea about the time tables. I have a webtv so I can't open > the kind of files you have Jerry. Answer could be in there somewhere. > This is what I have found out so far by just reading books. The > question was, what is the minimum radius a K4 could handle? I found out > that Horseshoe Curve is laid out at a 9° curvature. We know that is > pretty sharp. No problem for a K4 though. We know the westbound > departing track out of Penn Station in Pittsburgh was 12°. This was so > sharp it prohibited M1 Locos. So I am assuming a K4 could handle a curve > up to about 15° Does this sound correct? I wouldn't want to say > this for certain to the track layers and find out afterwards that 15° > is to sharpe to negotiate. The consulting firm wants docummented proof. > I believe this track is for the Museum grounds. High seed does not have > to be figured in. Just slow speed movement........Gary > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" > to "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: SUVCWORR@aol.com From: RichofScot@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:03:09 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR EP-22's schedule Speaking the EP-22's, I know the route of the soon to be Amtrak special has been published on this list but has the schedule been made available yet? I would like to plan my weekend. Unfortunately, the price is too much for my budget. Thanks. Rich Orr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rick Schoch Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:24:24 -0400 Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] PRR EP-22's > I think Bennett deserves the > biggest Thank You. For if his purchase of these Locos did not happen, > many of us of the younger generation would have missed out in seeing a > little of the Pennsy brought back to life. > I agree wholeheartedly. Many many thanks to Bennett for not only restoring the E's but making it possible for all to see and ride behind them. I've ordered tickets for Railfest and will be counting the days!! Tug ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty \(The Cos\)" Subject: RE: [PRR] Position Light Signals Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:15:37 -0400 Howdy All: We have a set at Columbia too. The lights are set to protect the C&PD from the Lancaster Main. I can't remember if the single tower east of Cola had red lenses also (the 48R and 44R signals - see http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/cola.gif - thanks to Mark Bej for the maps). . Cos Cos Communications, Inc. Home Page Rail Road Pages Subject: RE: [PRR] Position Light Signals Red lenses were installed only at Overbrook, not Bryn Mawr nor Paoli. I'm pretty sure this was the only installation anywhere in electrified territory. Removed in the early/mid 70s. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:56:17 -0700 From: Doug Edwards Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 08/01/01 Gary, The data I have for minimum radius for a K4s is 275feet at 5 mph, 325 feet at 10 mph, or 400 feet at 15 mph. These values are for forward motion. For reverse, 400 feet at 5 mph and no values given at a higher speed. A note says 5730 divided by Rad. in feet equals degree of curve. Regards, Doug > > > Subject: K4s Question > From: "Gary Mittner" > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:41:37 -0400 (EDT) > > Lists, > > I recieved a question via an email concerning the K4s. I do not > have the answer nor could I find it in any books I have. The person > wants to know the minimum radius of curve a K4 could negotiate. Is this > curve measured in degrees or is it measured in feet. If the actual > radius is known please inform me and supply a source this can be found > in. Evidently this info is needed for trackage at the Railroad Memorial > Museum in Altoona. Seems they are making plans for the K4.....Thanks, > Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:32:04 EDT From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] PRR EP-22's schedule Speaking the EP-22's, I know the route of the soon to be Amtrak special has been published on this list but has the schedule been made available yet? I would like to plan my weekend. Unfortunately, the price is too much for my budget. Thanks. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] PRR flat cars.... Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:53:58 -0400 Hi all, I've been working on updating the flat cars section of my web site and am compiling a list of PRR flat cars and available models. Here's what I've come up with so far. The list is HO scale as that's what I model.. I came up with HO scale models for 19 out of the 35 classes I listed. (For the most part I haven't differentiated sub-classes even though I probably should have..) Are there any that I've missed? Any that can be kitbashed? What accurate models are available in other scales? I'm also looking for info on the classes that I have ? marks for (early lettered classes, F27, F45 & F46). Which of these classes existed and what were they? I'm also looking for class diagrams for the classes I'm missing (ones with ? marks for the length). Lastly I'm looking for flat car photos that I can add to my site... Thanks! Rob http://prr.railfan.net/freight Class - Description - Available models FA-FL - ? FM - 40' flat - Railworks, brass; Sunshine, resin kit; F&C, resin kit FN - 38' well - NONE F21 - 40' flat - NONE F22 - 30' flat - Railworks, brass F23 - 30' flat - NONE F24 - 40' flat - NONE F25 - 45' well - Red Ball, kit F26 - ?' plate car (none built) F27 - ? F28 - 52' depressed - Railworks, brass F29 - 52' depressed - Railworks, brass F30 - 50' flat - Bowser, Plastic kit; Sunshine, Resin kit F31 - 63' flat - Railworks, brass F32 - 70' flat - NONE F33 - 52' depressed well - Railworks, brass F34 - 44' HD flat - Railworks, brass F35 - 53' depressed - Railworks, brass F36 - 50' HD flat - Railworks, brass F37 & F37b - 39' well - Railworks, brass F38 - 57' HD flat - RailClassics, brass (not yet released) F39 - 75' flat - Walthers, plastic kit; Overland, brass F40 - ?' depressed flat - NONE F41 - 53' flat - Gloor Craft, wood kit; Tichy & Walthers, plastic (stand ins...) F42 - 54' depressed - NONE F43 - 57' depressed - NONE F44 - 72' depressed - NONE F45 - ? F46 - ? F47 - 60' flat - NONE F48 - 89' flat - NONE F49 - 48' well - Overland, brass FD1 - 72' depressed - Railworks, brass FD2 - 121' depressed - Railworks, brass, Alco, brass FD3 - ?' depressed - NONE FW1 - 120' well - Railworks, brass, Alco, brass FW2 - 60' well - NONE ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bennett Levin Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:55:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] PRR EP-22's schedule Moderastely priced Day space is available from the Washington NRHS in the Dover Harbor and the Harrisburgh Chapter in the Wautaga Chapter's "Powhatten Arrow" Coach. Check both web sites for more information. Bennett Levin RichofScot@aol.com wrote: > > Speaking the EP-22's, I know the route of the soon to be Amtrak special has > been published on this list but has the schedule been made available yet? I > would like to plan my weekend. Unfortunately, the price is too much for my > budget. > > Thanks. > > Rich Orr > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. > > To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = > PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:55:53 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] PRR EP-22's schedule Moderastely priced Day space is available from the Washington NRHS in the Dover Harbor and the Harrisburgh Chapter in the Wautaga Chapter's "Powhatten Arrow" Coach. Check both web sites for more information. Bennett Levin RichofScot@aol.com wrote: > > Speaking the EP-22's, I know the route of the soon to be Amtrak special has > been published on this list but has the schedule been made available yet? I > would like to plan my weekend. Unfortunately, the price is too much for my > budget. > > Thanks. > > Rich Orr > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Small business owners... > Tell us what you think! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. > > To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = > PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:22:16 -0500 From: prrbill Subject: [PRR] Iron Horse in Schenectady The PBS station in Albany, NY has produced a 60 minute special on ALCO. I found their 800 number on the OGR model railroading forum and, after reading the glowing reviews, spoke for a time to Dave Wennberg. I told him I'd forward this information to PRR enthusiasts in case they wanted to get the video. Bill Morlitz We do have a home video of the program. Locally it is currently only available to WMHT members. However, we are making it available as a retail sale to people outside our viewing area immediately. The home video is $19.95 plus shipping. The program is approximately 60 minutes. To take advantage of this special introductory offer please call me directly at 1-800-272-6492 or e-mail to dwenn@wmht.org with credit card information and I will place your order. For more info please see our website http://www.wmht.org/ironhorse/home.html. We have produced many other local history programs and a complete catalog of released videos is available at www.shopwmht.org David Wennberg ShopWMHT 1-800-272-6492 dwenn@wmht.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:45:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] Steel Book Available List, I posted the following on the yahoo Steel talk list. Now knowing how many PRR modelers are into the Steel Seen... I thought someone on are list might be interested in this as well. So here it is; Hello List, I have a mint copy of the out of print, much sought after, The History, Making and Modeling of STEEL by the wizard himself Dean Freytag that I'm willing to sell. Trust me, this is a mint copy and I"ll let it go to the highest offer over $60.00. . . "Bidding" closes Sunday night Aug. 5th. Please contact me (off line) if you're interested. Thanks, Jon S. JONSS6755@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Kadee Spiker Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:14:16 -0400 Hi All, After much pontification, I have decided to sell my Kadee Spiker. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/spiker.jpg It is for code 100 rail. I am going to list it on Ebay on Sunday night unless someone wants it before then. I have seen what they are going for on Ebay. I paid $100.00 for it 12 years ago. I bought it from the original owner who said Kadee rebuilt it just before he sold it to me. I have used it to put down approximately 200 feet of S scale track in a yard module. I need the money for an S Scale B & O EM-1 that is being made next year. Included are 2 sealed spike packs (about 8000) and one that is about 1/2 used. The original Styrofoam box is in good condition. I am going to have a minimum bid of $250.00. Any takers? This informal auction ends this Sunday night at 6:00 p.m. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:04:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] pictures from the eastern end of the Panhandle Because I happened to find myself travelling west of Pittsburgh 3 times this week, on the third day I took some pictures of some surviving structures on the former Panhandle. I also rode the new West Busway in Pittsburgh (built on the former Panhandle as far as Carnegie) recently, but didn't have time to take pictures, and almost missed my plane. Anyhow, without further ado, http://prr.dementia.org/places/panhandle-division/ Maybe I'll have some more time at some point and can go take more. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Apparently-From: From: Garry Spear Subject: [PRR] PRR Pullman Web Pages Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:36:47 -0400 "The Complete Roster of Pennsylvania Railroad owned Pullman Heavyweight Parlor and Sleeping Cars" has made it to the web. http://PRR.Railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/ This started as needed material for some Heavyweight PRR Pullman models and developed into a book. The material is a guide for modelers with basic car information. Such as, truck type and AC type. Both needed for an accurate model. The information has been expanded to include the Pullman cars converted to coaches during W.W.II and has lists of the Horse and Scenery cars. Garry Spear _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:48:51 -0400 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] Crossing an aisle. List: I would like to extend a short 3 track reverse loop to cross over an aisle to reach another part of the layout ( from a peninsula to one of the around the walls sections). The extension distance is about 6'. Would prefer to make it resemble a bridge without having to scratchbuild a bridge. There would be no supports possible for a distance of 3' over the aisle. Does anybody have any ideas on doing this? Thanks in advance. Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Crossing an aisle. Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:56:10 -0400 Eddie: Can it cross a body of water? There was an article in MR years ago where someone crossed a doorway with girder bridges on piers over a piece of plywood done as a waterway. It looked quite realistic and worked very well with latches and contacts. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" To: ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 5:48 PM Subject: [PRR] Crossing an aisle. > List: > I would like to extend a short 3 track reverse loop to cross over an > aisle to reach another > part of the layout ( from a peninsula to one of the around the walls > sections). > The extension distance is about 6'. Would prefer to make it resemble a > bridge without > having to scratchbuild a bridge. There would be no supports possible for > a distance of 3' > over the aisle. > Does anybody have any ideas on doing this? > Thanks in advance. > > Eddie > Dr. Edmond L. Freed > PRRT&HS # 156 > Modeling the C&PD in HO > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:24:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] P2K 2-8-8-2 PRR Class HH-1 From: Jerry Britton I decided this product announcement was worthy of more than mention on the "Merchandise Announce" list... Life Like Proto 2000 "Heritage Collection" has FINALLY announced their 2-8-8-2 in PRR livery...two road numbers in fact!!! The unit is due in October and more information may be gleaned from http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/ms_ar.html Good news for HO scalers!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:48:28 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] P2K 2-8-8-2 PRR Class HH-1 Jerry sez: >Life Like Proto 2000 "Heritage Collection" has FINALLY announced their >2-8-8-2 in PRR livery...two road numbers in fact!!! > >The unit is due in October and more information may be gleaned from > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/ms_ar.html > >Good news for HO scalers!!! Since zee cat is out of zee bag....I think I can help fill in the details ;^) The numbers released are 373 and 376. #373 will be modeled circa August 1943, as received from N&W with the initial PRR modifications. This engine will had the Y-5 (Y-tube) front engine. These engines were based at Enola and will have appropriate pilot beam markings. #376 will depict the locos later in service, with more "PRR" appliances such as claw foot tender markers. #376 had a standard Y-3 front engine (metal bracket headlight support) and was based at Columbus. All of the PRR locomotives has the 18,000 gallon tender which was approximately 3 feet longer than the previously offered 16,000 gallon straight sided tender and was really the more common tender for the N&W Y-3s. See Mainline Modeler a couple years back for drawings. While I never got a direct confirmation that LL was tooling a new mold for the tender, I told them that the old tender with fishbelly sills would be wrong about a zillion times. I have yet to see the test shots, but I have hopes that we got them to use the correct builders plates as well (PRR not Alco). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:30:20 -0500 From: Greg Johnson Subject: Re: [PRR] Crossing an aisle. Eddie, One good method to simulate a girder bridge is to use aluminum channel (available at large home supply stores) as the base. Simply super glue vertical angles or tees every 8' feet or so, add some decking or bridge tie strip, paint it black and you are in business. I had a long one on a previous N scale layout. It worked great and was very rigid. Regards, Greg Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" To: ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 4:48 PM Subject: [PRR] Crossing an aisle. > List: > I would like to extend a short 3 track reverse loop to cross over an > aisle to reach another > part of the layout ( from a peninsula to one of the around the walls > sections). > The extension distance is about 6'. Would prefer to make it resemble a > bridge without > having to scratchbuild a bridge. There would be no supports possible for > a distance of 3' > over the aisle. > Does anybody have any ideas on doing this? > Thanks in advance. > > Eddie > Dr. Edmond L. Freed > PRRT&HS # 156 > Modeling the C&PD in HO > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 14:14:50 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Crossing an aisle. If your model is HO (as your signature indicates), then a 3 foot gap is about 260 scale feet. (3 x 87) That is far too long for a prototype girder bridge. The prototype would certainly have built a truss to span that size gap. Unfortunately since you don't want to scratch build, I don't know of any commercial model that long. However, consider making a model of three 87 foot girder spans with the two mid-stream piers modeled below the two joints. Structurally it could be made from a continuous wood or aluminum member whose sides are covered with girder models. The Central Valley plastic girder bridge comes to mind. The two piers would "dangle in space, "supporting" the bridge on the bed of the unmodeled river! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Greg Johnson wrote: > > Eddie, > > One good method to simulate a girder bridge is to use aluminum channel > (available at large home supply stores) as the base. Simply super glue > vertical angles or tees every 8' feet or so, add some decking or bridge tie > strip, paint it black and you are in business. I had a long one on a > previous N scale layout. It worked great and was very rigid. > > Regards, > > Greg Johnson > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" > To: ; "PRR-Talk LIST" > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 4:48 PM > Subject: [PRR] Crossing an aisle. > > > List: > > I would like to extend a short 3 track reverse loop to cross over an > > aisle to reach another > > part of the layout ( from a peninsula to one of the around the walls > > sections). > > The extension distance is about 6'. Would prefer to make it resemble a > > bridge without > > having to scratchbuild a bridge. There would be no supports possible for > > a distance of 3' > > over the aisle. > > Does anybody have any ideas on doing this? > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Eddie > > Dr. Edmond L. Freed > > PRRT&HS # 156 > > Modeling the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:48:27 -0400 Subject: [PRR] TAN - Domain Name "ModelRailroadNews.net" From: Jerry Britton Some time ago I registered the domain name "modelrailroadnews.net" for a project that never panned out. Actually, I put my time and effort into other areas. This domain registration is pre-paid for some time to come, but I was wondering if anyone on any of my lists might be interested in purchasing/adopting this domain name. If so, please contact me off-list. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:44:19 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Crossing an aisle. You guys are making this much more complicated than it really needs to be - 3/4" plywood and some old door hinges should enable your railroad to cross the aisle with "Dry feet" - just don't forget to provide electrical or mechanical protection, so that your limiteds don't take a plunge into the chasm. Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:07:33 -0400 From: Bob Johnson Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 4 Sincere thanks to all who participated in answering Questions 1, 2 and 3. Your replies have been sent to the members of the PRRT&HS Archives Committee for their information and discussion. The prior questions were posted on July 16, 21 and 30. The purpose of posing these questions on the list is to give you the opportunity to make your wishes known to the Committee. It's not too late to answer earlier questions. You can look them up in the list's archives. Question 4 - background. Just as there are many types of materials and information in the PRRT&HS collection at Lewistown, and there are a number of different uses people might make of the collection, so there are items that people might find essential and other items that they would have no use for. As a reminder, among the types of materials are: photographs (primarily locomotives, but some cars), drawings of locomotives and cars on microfilm, blueprint and other copies of drawings of locomotives and cars, drawings of bridges and buildings, maps, track charts, alignment and profile drawings, valuation section maps, other drawings depicting locations and right of way, and files of specifications and correspondence related to various locomotive and car classes. For your projects, what sort of materials are absolutely essential? What sort of information is of no use or interest? What sorts of drawings are absolutely essential for modelling rolling stock, structures, track and building layouts? Are there any types of drawings you see no use for, e.g. plumbing or heating drawings for buildings? As before, it will be a great help if you will identify yourselves as PRRT&HS members or non-members. It will also be appreciated if you will let us know whether or not you have used RR archives, such as the Hagley or the PA State Archives before. Also, to enable further discussion of your thoughts, you are invited to send your replies to the list. This will probably be the last question. Thanks, Bob Johnson, Chairman PRRT&HS Archive Committee ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:34:25 -0400 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] Re: [ldsig] re: Crossing an aisle. "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" wrote: > List: > I would like to extend a short 3 track reverse loop to cross over an > aisle to reach another part of the layout ( from a peninsula to one of the > around the walls > sections). The extension distance is about 6'. Would prefer to make it > resemble a > bridge without having to scratchbuild a bridge. There would be no supports > possible for > a distance of 3' over the aisle. > Does anybody have any ideas on doing this? > (snip) List: Thanks for the many responses received so far. I should have been more specific in my original message. Proposed bridge will be high enough to walk under without stooping or bending (if I do not use any piers or riverbeds as some suggested.. It does not have to be removable in any way. Could use some supports on edges of both tables, if necessary. Hope this drawing helps? | ____________________________3 track main___________________________| Hidden staging area |___________________________________________________________| behind backdrop Hill | Bridge (1" x 8"??) | | | Hill ----------track--| |--track-------- Table | Aisle | Table | | Best idea so far is 1" x 8" using girder bridge sides to cover edges & then ballast entire deck of bridge. Is there enough support under bridge as shown (length is over 4') or should I use extra support at ends of tables? Thanks again. Eddie P.S. Hello from Florida to members of Phila Division ,PRRTH&S from an old member. Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:52:27 -0400 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] Re: [ldsig] re: Crossing an aisle. "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" wrote: > "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" wrote: > > > List: > > I would like to extend a short 3 track reverse loop to cross over an > > aisle to reach another part of the layout ( from a peninsula to one of the > > > List: > Thanks for the many responses received so far. > I should have been more specific in my original message. Proposed bridge > will be > high enough to walk under without stooping or bending (if I do not use any > piers Sorry. Drawing got jumbled in sending. Eddie ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 06:30:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 4 From: Jerry Britton On 8/6/01 10:07 PM, Bob Johnson at (bobjohnson@alltel.net) wrote: > Question 4 - background. Just as there are many types of materials and > information in the PRRT&HS collection at Lewistown, and there are a > number of different uses people might make of the collection, so there > are items that people might find essential and other items that they > would have no use for. As a reminder, among the types of materials are: > photographs (primarily locomotives, but some cars), drawings of > locomotives and cars on microfilm, blueprint and other copies of > drawings of locomotives and cars, drawings of bridges and buildings, > maps, track charts, alignment and profile drawings, valuation section > maps, other drawings depicting locations and right of way, and files of > specifications and correspondence related to various locomotive and car > classes. > > For your projects, what sort of materials are absolutely essential? Valuation maps, blueprints and photos of structures. > What sort of information is of no use or interest? What sorts of > drawings are absolutely essential for modelling rolling stock, > structures, track and building layouts? Are there any types of drawings > you see no use for, e.g. plumbing or heating drawings for buildings? You've got it...I do not plan on modeling plumbing in N scale!!! While it is always good to have more, I think, for now, we have plenty of loco pics available. I would back-burner the effort to catalog these. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] Tender Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:35:32 -0400 I moved from california to Brookville, Pa in January and have been getting around the local area and elsewhere looking for vintage equipment and signs of the old PRR. I just went to the Knox and Kane railroad 21 miles north from where I live. They have an N-8 caboose which can be rented. A vintage chinese steam engine with doghouse on tender or diesel engine, ex-Gettysburgh RR, pulls their passenger trains through the Allegheny forest; and, they will leave you overnight in the cabin car to pick you up the following day. It is on my list to do. I was searching along a siding some 2 miles away from the depot at Marienville and I came across a tender. I could clearly make out "pennsylvania" under the new paint. It was painted like the pre-1954 lettering with a line over it, as used on frieght cars. I think it may have been used as a tender for a crane after the steam era. This of'course does not asure that it is PRR but the trucks had a vin number starting with PRR. I was told by an employee that it is for scrap. She was not certain but she thought it had a hole in it and they have since built a new one. She told me it was previously used on a baldwin engine that was in the roundhouse. After some coaxing she finally showed me the old baldwin. No belpaire firebox boiler but the tender on it obviously had the tank rebuilt. The frame and trucks seem original as far as I could tell, but it doesn't look PRR to me. I am not a tender expert, but to my eyes it looks a lot like the one on the I1sa at hamburg. My fiim is at the developers to be returned thursday. I will get a better idea what class the tender is then. ---Greg Stone PRRT&HS member special interest Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:52:32 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] G-24 gon question Howdy y'all, I had two quick questions about the composite G-24 gondola. These were built during WWII to "USRA" specs. There is a kit from Intermountain of these cars. 1) When were these cars rebuilt with steel sides? 2) Were the floor replaced as well? I beleive as built they were drop bottom, but that the rebuilts were solid bottom...wood or steel floors? 3) When were they removed from service (or, how many were in service in 1944?) I'm thinking of modifying the Intermountain kit with thin brass sides to represent a rebuilt car. I'll dent up the sides some to represent wear. This kit seems to lend itself perfectly to this approach. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] G-24 gon question Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:20:05 -0400 Bruce, Try my site at: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G24 I tabulated the entries from yearly ORER entries (from Al Westerfield's PRR ORER CD's) and it shows the transition pretty well... The transition happened between 1932 and 1936... Don't know about the floor material.... There were still about 650 of them in 1944... One car was still on the roster in 1963... Hope this helps! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Bruce F. > Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 5:53 PM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] G-24 gon question > > > Howdy y'all, > > I had two quick questions about the composite G-24 gondola. These were > built during WWII to "USRA" specs. There is a kit from Intermountain of > these cars. > > 1) When were these cars rebuilt with steel sides? > 2) Were the floor replaced as well? I beleive as built they were drop > bottom, but that the rebuilts were solid bottom...wood or steel floors? > 3) When were they removed from service (or, how many were in > service in 1944?) > > I'm thinking of modifying the Intermountain kit with thin brass sides to > represent a rebuilt car. I'll dent up the sides some to represent wear. > This kit seems to lend itself perfectly to this approach. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - > Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "penncent" Subject: [PRR] PRR commemorative plate for sale on Ebay Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:09:08 -0400 I have for sale on Ebay a plate with NYC, PRR, and PC logos commemorating the formation of the Penn Central, and was manufactured for the New York Central Veterans, Lake (Erie) Shore Chapter in 1969. Photos are provided. Thanks, Don. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1174941427 Don Narris -- Canton, Ohio (MP 99, PFW&C RR) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lmatt" Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of PRR motors, 4880 Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:51:11 -0400 I was just perusing the photos of PRR motors when I noticed that the nose pan decks on GG1 4880 are painted a color and are not silver. The photo is B&W, and the deck has approximately the same gray shade as the red stripe and lettering does. Anyone know what color this actually is? and why? Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claus Schlund" To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 8:03 PM Subject: [PRR] Photos of PRR motors > Hi everyone, > > I recently came across this site > which has some very cool PRR > photos, in particular PRR motors. > > Has several shots of "modernized" > DD-1 motors, and also the elusive > R-1 at Manhattan Transfer. > > http://donross.railspot.com/ > > Enjoy - Claus > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] G-24 gon question Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 22:05:21 -0400 Bruce did you mean WWI. The G28 (1) and G30's were composite cars built in WWII. I thought the G24's were earlier. Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." To: Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 5:52 PM Subject: [PRR] G-24 gon question > Howdy y'all, > > I had two quick questions about the composite G-24 gondola. These were > built during WWII to "USRA" specs. There is a kit from Intermountain of > these cars. > > 1) When were these cars rebuilt with steel sides? > 2) Were the floor replaced as well? I beleive as built they were drop > bottom, but that the rebuilts were solid bottom...wood or steel floors? > 3) When were they removed from service (or, how many were in service in 1944?) > > I'm thinking of modifying the Intermountain kit with thin brass sides to > represent a rebuilt car. I'll dent up the sides some to represent wear. > This kit seems to lend itself perfectly to this approach. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 22:10:00 -0400 From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of PRR motors, 4880 I think I remember black of DGLE, but I don't have any sources handy. John Ryan lmatt wrote: > I was just perusing the photos of PRR motors when I noticed that the nose > pan decks on GG1 4880 are painted a color and are not silver. The photo is > B&W, and the deck has approximately the same gray shade as the red stripe > and lettering does. Anyone know what color this actually is? and why? > > Lew Matt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Claus Schlund" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 8:03 PM > Subject: [PRR] Photos of PRR motors > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I recently came across this site > > which has some very cool PRR > > photos, in particular PRR motors. > > > > Has several shots of "modernized" > > DD-1 motors, and also the elusive > > R-1 at Manhattan Transfer. > > > > http://donross.railspot.com/ > > > > Enjoy - Claus > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 06:20:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] G-24 gon question From: Jerry Britton On 8/7/01 5:52 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. at (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > I had two quick questions about the composite G-24 gondola. These were > built during WWII to "USRA" specs. There is a kit from Intermountain of > these cars. > > 1) When were these cars rebuilt with steel sides? > 2) Were the floor replaced as well? I beleive as built they were drop > bottom, but that the rebuilts were solid bottom...wood or steel floors? > 3) When were they removed from service (or, how many were in service in > 1944?) This info is on Rob's site, as I had looked it up several months back. Many made it into the 50's, so you will be safe in 1944. > > I'm thinking of modifying the Intermountain kit with thin brass sides to > represent a rebuilt car. I'll dent up the sides some to represent wear. > This kit seems to lend itself perfectly to this approach. > I have the InterMountain kit in N scale and it is a beauty with its real wood sides and floor. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:17:50 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of PRR motors, 4880 >I was just perusing the photos of PRR motors when I noticed that the nose >pan decks on GG1 4880 are painted a color and are not silver. The photo is >B&W, and the deck has approximately the same gray shade as the red stripe >and lettering does. Anyone know what color this actually is? and why? > >Lew Matt How about rust ? Actually, on the silver 4880, I believe a black panel was painted to help hid the rust from the pans. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:19:54 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] G-24 gon question Jerry wrote: >I have the InterMountain kit in N scale and it is a beauty with its real >wood sides and floor. Yep, except that all of the cars were rebuilt to steel sides by 1937 (according to Rob's page). You probably can't even use the wood floor since it depicts doors in the floor and I think the rebuilds removed that feature...So the operative question is the floor. Does anyone have or know of a photo of the rebuilt cars (steel sided)...I'd love any photo, not just one of the floor. Thanks to all of you who reminded me of Rob's pages (including Rob!). They are an incredible resource for the PRR modeler! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:50:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] Check This Out ! Fellow Pennsy Fans, Check this out! This is the first "taste" of something thats in the works that I think is going to be very big. Stay tune for updates. . . Be sure to have your sound on. . . And Enjoy ! ! Secrets Of The Broadway Limited It may take a little bit to download, But it's well worth the wait! Jon Sbordone PRRT&HS #3079 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:12:47 -0700 Subject: [PRR] NH RPOs on the PRR Hi, I'm not sure if I should post this to the PRR-Talk ist or to the HYNH&H list, but I will try here first... PRR and NYNH&H hosted a number of Boston-Washington run-thru RPO services. I know PRR mail cars ran on the NYNH&H to Boston, as I've seen published photos of PRR M70 cars in Boston. Question I have is, did NYNH&H RPO cars ever run thru south of Penn Station/NYC to destinations such as Washington DC or Harrisburg, PA? If anyone has a reference to a published photo that would be ideal, but I'd be interested in any general responses, even conjectural ones without published references as well. If possible, including a time frame in your response would be great, as this will help put the bigger picture in better perspective... - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:15:25 -0500 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] Check This Out ! JONS6755@aol.com wrote: > > Fellow Pennsy Fans, > Check this out! This is the first "taste" of something thats in > the works that I think is going to be very big. Stay tune for > updates. . . Be sure to have your sound on. . . And Enjoy ! ! > > Secrets Of The Broadway Limited > It may take a little bit to download, But it's well worth the wait! > > Jon Sbordone > PRRT&HS #3079 It is one sharp site with great graphics (Flash animation?) that certainly promises great things. Hope it delivers! BTW, they say to visit site which is under construction. The "under construction" signage is multi-lingual so speculation: computer game, Nintendo-type game, book, what? Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 06:36:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] NH RPOs on the PRR From: Jerry Britton On 8/8/01 10:12 PM, Claus Schlund at (schlund@cwnet.com) wrote: > PRR and NYNH&H hosted a number of Boston-Washington > run-thru RPO services. I know PRR mail cars ran on the > NYNH&H to Boston, as I've seen published photos of PRR > M70 cars in Boston. Question I have is, did NYNH&H RPO > cars ever run thru south of Penn Station/NYC to > destinations such as Washington DC or Harrisburg, PA? I'm modeling Harrisburg in 9/54. The following comes from a variety of sources, including the "Makeup of Trains: New York Division" from 4/54, as well as PTT's from 9/54. I've included trains with not only NYNH&H cars, but also those that carried PRR cars from those cities. 8:55 a.m.....95 (NH181) arr from New York (Daily Ex. Sun. & Mon.) Express.....P.X.T. to Harrisburg (X29) Harrisburg: Remove. Express.....P.X.T. to Chicago (B60) (To No. 99 at Pittsburgh). Express.....P.X.T. to Columbus (R50) (To No. 203 at Pittsburgh). Express.....P.X.T. to Birmingham (R50) (To No. 203 at Pittsburgh). Express.....Boston to Indianapolis (B60) (To No. 27 at Pittsburgh). Express.....Hartford to St. Louis (R50) (To No. 27 at Pittsburgh). Express.....Providence to St. Louis (B60) (Mess.) (To No. 27 at Pittsburgh). Express.....South Norwalk to St. Louis (B60) (To No. 27 at Pittsburgh). Express.....South Norwalk to Chicago (R50) (To No. 99 at Pittsburgh). Express.....Providence to Chicago (B60) (Mess.) (To No. 99 at Pittsburgh). Mail Storage.....Providence to Chicago (MS60) (To No. 99 at Pittsburgh). Express.....Boston to Chicago (B60) (To No. 99 at Pittsburgh). Express.....Hartford to Chicago (B60) (To No. 99 at Pittsburgh). Mail Storage.....New Haven to Chicago (MS60) (To No. 99 at Pittsburgh). Express.....Bridgeport to Chicago (B60) (To No. 99 at Pittsburgh). Express.....Hartford to Pittsburgh (X29) Mail Storage.....New Haven to Pittsburgh (MS60) Mail Storage.....Providence to Pittsburgh (MS60) (Two Cars) Express.....Boston to Pittsburgh (B60) Express.....Boston to Pittsburgh (R50) Express.....Boston to Harrisburg (R50 or X29) Harrisburg: Remove. Cabin.....Boston to Pittsburgh 4:22 p.m.....72 arr from Pittsburgh The Juniata Express.....Berwick to Boston (B60) (To NH100 at New York). Baggage.....Pittsburgh to Stamford (B60) (PRR-NH-B&M) (DH) (Three cars) (To NH100 at New York). Express.....Chicago to Hartford (B60) (To NH100 at New York). Express.....Chicago to Boston (B60) (To NH100 at New York). Express.....St. Louis to Boston (B60) (Mess.) (To NH100 at New York). Express.....Cincinnati to Boston (B60) (To NH100 at New York). Express.....Pittsburgh to Boston (B60) (Mess.) (To NH100 at New York). Express.....Pittsburgh to Springfield (B60) (To NH100 at New York). Baggage/Mail.....Pittsburgh to New York (BM70 30') Parlor.....Pittsburgh to New York (PL 28-1) Coffee Shop Tavern.....Pittsburgh to New York Coaches.....Pittsburgh to New York (P70GSR) (Two cars) Coach.....Harrisburg to New York (P70 Scheme 6) Harrisburg: Add from Coach Yard. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 08:54:01 -0400 From: Steven Hanlon Subject: [PRR] broadway website At 10:15 PM 8/8/01 -0500, prrbill wrote: JONS6755@aol.com wrote: > > Fellow Pennsy Fans, > Check this out! This is the first "taste" of something thats in > the works that I think is going to be very big. Stay tune for > updates. . . Be sure to have your sound on. . . And Enjoy ! ! > > Secrets Of The Broadway Limited > It may take a little bit to download, But it's well worth the wait! the site looks very nice. looks like a bad suspense book in the works. It is one sharp site with great graphics (Flash animation?) that certainly promises great things. Hope it delivers! BTW, they say to visit site which is under construction. The "under construction" signage is multi-lingual so speculation: computer game, Nintendo-type game, book, what? i doubt it is a computer game. if it is, it is very low budget. the site is hosted thru worldnic and the contact point is a dialup ISP account. not very "professional" for a computer software company. WHOIS: Registrant: smart communications, inc. (THEBROADWAYLTD-DOM) 3151 Cahuenga Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90068 US Domain Name: THEBROADWAYLTD.COM Administrative Contact, Billing Contact: smart communications, inc. (R23868-OR) smartcommco@earthlink.net smart communications, inc. 3151 Cahuenga Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90068 US 323.850.8194 Technical Contact: WorldNIC Name Host (HOST-ORG) namehost@WORLDNIC.COM Network Solutions, Inc. 505 Huntmar Park Drive Herndon, VA 20170-5142 1-888-642-9675 Record last updated on 10-Jul-2001. Record expires on 10-Jul-2002. Record created on 10-Jul-2001. Database last updated on 8-Aug-2001 21:23:00 EDT. -steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:03:38 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Check This Out ! In a message dated 8/8/01 7:55:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, prrbill@Op.Net writes: << It is one sharp site with great graphics (Flash animation?) that certainly promises great things. Hope it delivers! BTW, they say to visit site which is under construction. The "under construction" signage is multi-lingual so speculation: computer game, Nintendo-type game, book, what? Bill Morlitz >> Bill and List, If I told you, it wouldn't be a secret. Tune in to www.TheBroadwayltd.com on September 1 and watch the mystery unfold. Thats all I can say at this time. . . Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 10:14:49 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Wilmington Station From: Jerry Britton About two weeks ago I made a post to the list that "Merchandise Service" has one unsold "Wilmington Station: Second Installment" (clock tower building) in stock and subscription to the "Wilmington Station: Third Installment" when it comes in. We had a customer who took the first installment, has since had a divorce, and no has no financial capability to complete their commitment. We had reported that there was no way for us to provide the first installment to the prospective buyer of two and three. Now there is!!! Trainstuff has offered to make us an additional first installment (the main building). Therefore, it is still possible for one lucky person to purchase the entire Wilmington Station Series, which is fully reserved worldwide! You can view pics of the station model on the TrainStuff web site (http://www.trainstuffllc.com). Contact me off-list if interested. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:00:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: the word is out Harry Yes the word is out. after reading your e-mail I posted The Secrets of The Broadway Ltd on the main Pennsy talk list last night aftrer reading your e-mail and it has spread across other talk lists as I knew it would ! As far as you e-mail. . . As far as my venture. . . First of all, I've been unemployed for the past six months after being downsized by my last employer. after having no luck finding work I've decided to try something of my own working in a field that I have knowledge of, the railfan/ hobby world. What I'm looking at doing is starting my own busniess providing custom designed, pre-inked address stamps to train enthusiasts both railfans and modelers featuring art work and hearalds of their favorite locomotives and railroad. Now I'm sure your saying "wherer did ya get this idea from" Well'long story. My last place of enployment was a company (Schwaab Stamp) that make pre-inked stamps. While working there I had made up for myself an address stamp with the artwork of a PRR M1b loco.on it fraom clipart I had. I send out alot of snail mail and use the stamp as a return address on my envelops. Well I started getting comments like; nice stamp, where did ya get it, how can I get one etc. etc. and after awhile a light went off in my head. There might be a demand here! Now I don't know if you know this or not. . . but the eclectic group of railfans,model railroaders, train buffs whatever you want to call them. . . is a pretty wierd bunch!! And one of the things this "group loves to do is show off to their peers and the world what they're into. Be it their favorite railroad or locomotive or what club or historical society. . . they like to show it off. I perrsonely think this ties in to a need for belonging if you will. Whatever, anyway what better way to show you colors than a n address stamp that flashes "your colors" on all you correspondences ans whereever eles you chose to stamp it. I'm also going to have stamps for marking books, a "from the library of" kinda thing with the same art available. Train buffs have a lot of valuable books... and these books can sprout legs. This will stop that. I approached Schwaab Stamp with the idea of working as an independent with them. . . and they loved the idea. Why not... I'll be making them money!! They'll make the stamps for me and I'll go to shows, conventions, swap meets, historical society meets, whereever and take orders for these stamps. In the future (if this flys) I plan ads in major hobby related magazines, a website, and of course mail order (EZ Money) from flyers handed out at these shows and from repeat business. The name of the business will be STAMPTRAIN as in here comes the. . . and Harry, part of me thinks this is the greatest thing since sliced bread and the other thinks I'm F#%$@in' Crazy! ! ! Now, As far as how "Secrets" and STAMPTRAIN starting at the same time might just be fate. I respect the fact that due to you involvment with those Athearn Boys you can't "help" my venture. The big thing I'm dealing with at the start up is that I'll have to be traveling to all these shows, and Schwaab will not cover anything (the dirty dogs!) I'm on my own. Now, after not working for awhile my pockets aren't very deep. What I was thinking is I would be more than happy to promote, market, sell, whatever "Secrets" and all that is to come out of it at all these shows along side STAMPTRAIN. . . or even go to shows solely to market "Secrets" if you could help cover my expenses. . . or in some way make it worth my whiled. I would even love to become an employee of yours if you looking or thinking of maybe doing something like that. Belive me Harry. . . I know where to go, I know who to talk to, and trust me, I know how to talk there talk ! ! Please let me know your feelings on this. Now as far as the new info you have given me on "Secrets" Again, WOW !! Part of me saoid "Fantastic" part of me said "Whats this guy smoking" but all of me said "This could really be big"! ! There are so many facets to this and each and everyone of them can play back on each other. Or just one and only one could work and it still would be big. What I really found funny was that you mentioned the Levins and their E8 project. Bennett Levin and I have become close friends over the past year or so. And of course I've been following the restoration project (from a far via cyber space) of the E8s. Bennett and I trade e-mails at least 4 or 5 times a week and he has be sending me pictures and keeping me posted on the work and also the up coming plans (all off the record) for the units when finished. . . which them are now. When you first sent me "Secrets" (this is the "funny"part) I felt I just had to show this to someone (built in marketing devise). . . Bennett was the person I sent it to ! ! I told him that I didn't know any more about it than what I was sending him. I told him that at that time it was for his eyes only. And I told him I would fill him in when I knew more. He Loved It ! And why not! ! So when you started talking about the Levins and the E8s and about plans of bringing them into the master plan. . . well I really had to laugh. Small world. The E8s will be on the point of the excursion trains around The Curve at Railfest 2001 in Altoona. Bennett will also have his private car The Pennsylvania #120 on the rear of the train. Should be quite a site. PRR E8s back to back around The Curve in the glorious fall colors. . . Just the way God and the PRR intended it ! And all the more reason that Railfest is a great to market "Secrets" ! ! ! I've rambled on enough for this trip. Please get back at me with your thoughts and feelings on all the above. . . and I'll keep "teasing" people with "Secrets". . . its really been quite fun. . . I'm being very mysterious with it as the subject mather demands! ! I Love It !!! Chow Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Check This Out ! Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:13:14 -0400 Listers, After checking out the "trailer" (nice animation) I say it is going to be an online detective game. It says there are over 3,000 murders so I would guess that there can be plenty of permutations. What's more interesting is Harry Weber (www.harrywebber.com/secrets.html) if you go to his home page and leaf though it you'll find out that Mr. Weber is an advertising "god". >From the website: "Starting with the famous route of The Phoebe Snow, the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western and working his way up to the mighty Pennsylvania Railroad,(PRR content) the 14 year old commercial artist traveled from New York to Harrisburg and Scranton promoting safe work practices in America's most dangerous industry." He went on to create major ad campaigns including: Stuck on Band-Aid There's a Ford in your Future the dancing cat for Chow-chow-chow-chow Thanks I needed that Quality is Job 1 Just for the taste of it(diet coke) A mind is a terrible thing to waste Pretty cool site Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Check This Out ! Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:02:34 -0700 From: "John Cooper" Cool animation but what's up with the signals? We had reverse diagonal over reverse diagonal, vertical over vertical changing to vertical over diagonal, horizontal over horizontal, ... John > ---------- > From: JONS6755@aol.com[SMTP:JONS6755@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 5:50 PM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Check This Out ! > > Fellow Pennsy Fans, > Check this out! This is the first "taste" of something thats in > the works that I think is going to be very big. Stay tune for > updates. . . Be sure to have your sound on. . . And Enjoy ! ! > HREF="http://www.harrywebber.com/secrets.html"> > Secrets Of The Broadway Limited > It may take a little bit to download, But it's well worth the wait! > > Jon Sbordone > PRRT&HS #3079 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 13:14:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Check This Out ! From: Jerry Britton On 8/9/01 1:02 PM, John Cooper (johncoop@microsoft.com) wrote: > Cool animation but what's up with the signals? We had reverse diagonal > over reverse diagonal, vertical over vertical changing to vertical over > diagonal, horizontal over horizontal, ... It could get worse...if the person behind this isn't a PRR historian and is just a writer creating a mystery, we could get...yikes!...vista domes!!! Or how 'bout F7's in Tuscan five stripe a la Athearn! I agree, though, the animations are great! >> ---------- >> From: JONS6755@aol.com[SMTP:JONS6755@aol.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 5:50 PM >> To: prr-talk@dsop.com >> Subject: [PRR] Check This Out ! >> >> Fellow Pennsy Fans, >> Check this out! This is the first "taste" of something thats in >> the works that I think is going to be very big. Stay tune for >> updates. . . Be sure to have your sound on. . . And Enjoy ! ! >> > HREF="http://www.harrywebber.com/secrets.html"> >> Secrets Of The Broadway Limited ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] Tender Identification Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:40:20 -0400 HELP!!! Can anyone point me to a good reference to help with identifying PRR tenders? The problem with having so many books and magazines is not having the information in them inventoried. I believe one of the Keystones had an article on tenders but I haven't gotten to it yet. I tend to get sidetracked when I start looking through them. Thanks in advance for the help. Also thanks to those who gave me info on the Knox and Kane RR. ---Greg Stone member PRRT&HS special interest Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty \(The Cos\)" Subject: RE: [PRR] Tender Identification Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:08:54 -0400 I have the Tenders - Classification and Description from June 2 1952 @ http://www.wsbcos.com/tenders.htm It may not be what you are looking for. But it does have a general description of most all of the tenders. I think Jerry has it on one of his CD's too! Cos Cos Communications, Inc. Home Page Rail Road Pages -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Greg Stone Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 7:40 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Tender Identification HELP!!! Can anyone point me to a good reference to help with identifying PRR tenders? The problem with having so many books and magazines is not having the information in them inventoried. I believe one of the Keystones had an article on tenders but I haven't gotten to it yet. I tend to get sidetracked when I start looking through them. Thanks in advance for the help. Also thanks to those who gave me info on the Knox and Kane RR. ---Greg Stone member PRRT&HS special interest Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender Identification Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:22:19 -0500 Greg--The Keystone Spring, 1988, will be helpful for the 11,000 and 13,000 gal. tenders. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] broadway website Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:22:09 -0400 Gotta agree on the cool graphics... The "Smart communications" that the site is registered to is an ad agency (apparently started by Harry Webber..) The same one Athearn uses in their ads... and the multilingual under construction page seems's to be Network Solutions standard page for sites not up and running yet... So whatever it is, they have a budget large enough to hire an ad agency! They tout their Athearn work at: http://www.harrywebber.com/harrywebber/work/printwork/athearn.html Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Steven Hanlon Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 8:54 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] broadway website At 10:15 PM 8/8/01 -0500, prrbill wrote: JONS6755@aol.com wrote: > > Fellow Pennsy Fans, > Check this out! This is the first "taste" of something thats in > the works that I think is going to be very big. Stay tune for > updates. . . Be sure to have your sound on. . . And Enjoy ! ! > > Secrets Of The Broadway Limited > It may take a little bit to download, But it's well worth the wait! the site looks very nice. looks like a bad suspense book in the works. It is one sharp site with great graphics (Flash animation?) that certainly promises great things. Hope it delivers! BTW, they say to visit site which is under construction. The "under construction" signage is multi-lingual so speculation: computer game, Nintendo-type game, book, what? i doubt it is a computer game. if it is, it is very low budget. the site is hosted thru worldnic and the contact point is a dialup ISP account. not very "professional" for a computer software company. WHOIS: Registrant: smart communications, inc. (THEBROADWAYLTD-DOM) 3151 Cahuenga Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90068 snip... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:25:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] more PRR documents for download I have recently uploaded these Employe Time-Tables: Chicago Terminal Division No. 13 (Effective September 25, 1949) Delmarva Division No. 5 (Effective April 25, 1954) New York Region No. 5 (Effective April 27, 1958) Philadelphia District No. 9 (Effective October 30, 1955) Williamsport Division No. 9 (Effective September 25, 1949) and this Track Chart: Middle Division Branches Track Chart (Correct to January 1, 1942) to http://prr.dementia.org/documents The track chart is the first I've scanned, and per a suggestion from Rob Schoenberg I tried to set it up so that when Acrobat Reader is set to view the document in continuous mode that the result is useful. However, I'm open to suggestions as to how the presentation might be improved. Please send such directly to shadow@dementia.org -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:05:10 -0800 From: Harry Webber Subject: [PRR] The "Secrets of the Broadway Limited" Are Exactly That.. Dear List, We have noted with great interest the degree of speculation which has surrounded the discovery of the "secrets" page on our web server. Let me first and foremost state that this page was not meant for public viewing and was posted as a prototype for the production team and research purposes only. Although we greatly appreciate the many complements and were quite amused by several of the critiques, let me assure you, a huge amount of painstaking research has and will continue to go into each and every frame of "Secrets of the Broadway Limited". What you have seen is a mere shadow of what is to be. And what it is to be must unfortunately remain "a secret" for now...but not for long. Respectfully, Harry Webber ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:39:45 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Life Like is Going Nuts!!! From: Jerry Britton For those not on the "Merchandise Announce" list, I'll share that this week Life Like has announced no less than FIVE HO scale locomotives relevant to PRR modelers. Since no discussion has occurred on the list, I must assume that the word is not getting out! In fact, Life Like hasn't even updated their web site yet! For info, please see http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/ms_ar.html Note that the AR page now spans two pages, so don't miss the link at the bottom...there are PRR items on page two! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:43:59 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Track Detectors in 1950's From: Jerry Britton What were the track detector announcements like in the 1950's? I'm especially interested in the announcers at AQUEDUCT, SCOTCH RUN, and LILLY. If I applied todays announcers, one might sound like PRR...DETECTOR...MILEPOST 122.3...TRACK ONE...NO DEFECTS What might one have reported in the mid-50's? Where were the detectors east of, and closest to, Harrisburg? Perhaps at ROY? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:51:50 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Penn Station in Baltimore to get hotel From: Jerry Britton >From the wire yesterday... Penn Station in Baltimore to get hotel   Amtrak plans to open a 72-room hotel inside Pennsylvania Station in Baltimore over the next two years, the Baltimore Sun reported.   A Maryland developer will begin construction next year, and then the following year convert upper-floor offices into guest rooms. The hotel will be reached from the stationšs lobby. An operator for the hotel, which will cost $5 million, has not yet been named.   "This development is a terrific example of how Amtrak can leverage its assets," Amtrak spokeswoman Karen Dunn told the newspaper. "Amtrak can provide other things besides rail service."   Amtrak also is considering building a hotel adjacent to 30th Street Station in Philadelphia.   ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:39:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR O SCALE FOR SALE (2nd Try) In a message dated 8/9/01 10:26:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: forwarded to me; thought some list members might be interested: Pacific Limited, PRR, H21a, mint PSC, PRR, H25, mint PSC, PRR, R-7, FP, mint PSC, PFE, R-30-21, FP, mint Overland, PRR, H-32, mint P Co, PRR, D78R, mint Westside, PRR, "J" tender, mint Weaver, PRR, K-4, TRO Sunset N&W J (mint)w/5 Weaver Pass cars (mint) Regards, Ed Kelly 1-302-234-2089 I have a pair of Pacific Limited Hoppers, mint, in the original black boxes: one H-21a and one H-22a, which I would like to sell for $625 selling the pair only Price includes packaging and insured shipping via U.P.S. anywhere "Conus" Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:28:59 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender Identification Hi Greg, Sorry for the empty message - I hit the send key by mistake! You've hit on a real challenge, and one that's taken me several years to deal with. There are a few sources that can be used. The first of these is the Keystone articles on Kiesel tenders, which gives you photos and rough drawings of the 11,000, 13,000 and 18,000 gallon tenders and their many incarnations. The second is the MR Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia published by Kalmbach. This book has a number of excellent dtrawings and photographs. Finally, Pennsy Power 1 and to a lesser extent, PPII have excellent descriptions of tenders used in the text for each loco class, and often label the tender in the photo (although they get some wrong ...) . Now, I have to warn you, if you start caring about this subject, you get labeled a "rivet counter" and "SPF" ;^) and you'll never be able to look at another Bowser tender the same again...Once upon a time I was in the process of trying to photograph every accurate model PRR tender I could as well as scanning some photos to provide the sort of database you're talking about...just haven't gotten to it yet! Happy Rails Bruce >HELP!!! >Can anyone point me to a good reference to help with identifying PRR >tenders? The problem with having so many books and magazines is not having >the information in them inventoried. I believe one of the Keystones had an >article on tenders but I haven't gotten to it yet. I tend to get sidetracked >when I start looking through them. >Thanks in advance for the help. >Also thanks to those who gave me info on the Knox and Kane RR. >---Greg Stone >member PRRT&HS >special interest Renovo Yards > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ___