From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/13/01 Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 22:14:40 -0400 On 06/13/01, Joe Szarmach wrote: Also, does anyone know the color "formula" or a description for "Tuscan Red" (i.e. one that I can take to a paint store and have 40 gallons of "Tuscan Red" paint mixed)?? I bought an old piece of PRR railroad equipment I need to paint. Thanks in advance. Joe Szarmach jszarmach @ aol . com In his answer to Joe on 06/13/01, Jerry Britton wrote: > The PRRT&HS sells color drift cards. You can take one to a paint store and have them match it. There is no "formula" that can be provided generically. Each brand of paint uses its own base formulas so each would yield different results. (Carl Izzo, the list's resident paint expert, may chip on on this.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Thanks Jerry! Not only am I the list's resident expert, I am the world's greatest paint consultant, concert pianist and ping pong champion. As usual, I am many weeks behind on PRR-Talk and am reading this for the first time this evening. Jerry is right about paint formulations. Paint stores now use tint bases and universal colorants. You take your color chip to the store, the clerk matches it as closely as he can to one of his color chips and key punches the code on the back of his color chip into the color matching "computer". The colorants are measured automatically and added to the can of tint base, the can is shaken, you pay the clerk and go on your merry way rejoicing. With luck, you may have the right color. In a factory where ready mixed paint is made, The colors are ground into the resins. After the paint is made the colors are checked instrumentally or visually sometimes in the lab by a paint chemist or technician. If the color is not correct, it is "shaded" by the chemist or technician by adding a little bit of or a little bit of that until the proper shade is achieved. So much for the lesson on paint making. Several companies made paints for the PRR. DuPont was one of them. I know this because several years ago, I got a quart of duPont Dulux Mars Red Medium 98-394H AKA Toluidine Red (used as the background color on Keystone number plates) and a quart of duPont Dulux Gold 056D (used for painting the numbers and other things). For the record the important things here are the numbers. Although I got these paints from a duPont salesman who handled transportation finishes, it was my understanding that these finishes could be reproduced using duPont formulations. He was kind enough to look up the numbers for me and to get me the paints. I don't know what Bennett Levin did for his paint. I meet him and know he is a bright guy who may have taken the same route. I don't like to give advice; but If I were you, I would try my luck at a duPont store. If that doesn't work, try their marketing department. You may have to pay a premium price for 40 gallons because paint is made in 1000 gallon batches, but at least you would have the right color. Carl P. Izzo Industrial Paint Consultant ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:52:26 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Brian, I finally got a chance to look at "Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad" over the week-end. I presume the photo you are talking about is the one in then smokey Pittsburgh yard toward the end of the book (page 119?). Its a great broadside shot of a rebuilt P70; but its a P70Kr not a P70GSr. The Ks have 7 and a half window on that side, while the GS's have eight and a half windows. This reflects the greater legroom of the Ks, which were designed for overnight service. The GS's were blue ribbon day coaches. I am guessing at their intended assignment from the seating capacity. Also the Ks had large restrooms, one at either end - typical of an overnight coach (like a P85b), while the GS's had two small restrooms at the A end of the car. Note that the car in "Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad" has two small window at each end of the car. One set is for one restroom, the other set is for the off-center corridor around the restroom. BTW, I've finally started work on my Laser Horizons P70GSr's. The first thing I did was add some relief to the sides by gluing .010 styrene over the letter board, and building up a belt rail from .010x.020 over .010x.040 Evergreen styrene strip. I am using the photos in PRR Color Guide Vol. 1. Not only is the photo on pg. 13 a GS, but also on the previous pages, several of the cars half out of the photo(s) are also GS's. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Brian Butcher wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew S. Miller" > To: "Brian Butcher" > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 12:21 PM > Subject: Re: P70gsR Question... > > > Brian, > > > > Yes the PENNSY pic is the one in the rain. And thanx for telling me of > > the one in "Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad". I'll have to look > > tonight. > > > > Regards, > > > > Andy Miller > > asmiller@mitre.org > > > > ================================================== > Hello Andy; > > I do not have access to the picture of the P70gs cars in the PENNSY Magazine > as you mention above. > > I think you said in a previous post that the picture was taken when K4s 1461 > was dedicated on Horseshoe Curve (circa 1957...) > Can you tell me if the cars in that photo have a full / deep skirt.....or > slim / partial skirt (as seen in the picture book PRR Color Guide to Freight > and Passenger Equipment - pg 13) > > I am 99% I know the answer, but I need to be certain....Thanks in advance > for your help > > BTW, did you look up the "suspect" picture of P70gsR cars I forwarded to you > in an earlier link... "Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad"....What do you > think? > > Regards; > Brian Butcher > EWM -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Butcher" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:12:41 -0400 X-Apparently-From: ThreeButchers@cs.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew S. Miller" To: "Brian Butcher" Cc: "PRR Modeling" ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! > Brian, > > I finally got a chance to look at "Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad" > over the week-end. I presume the photo you are talking about is the one > in then smokey Pittsburgh yard toward the end of the book (page 119?). > Its a great broadside shot of a rebuilt P70; but its a P70Kr not a > P70GSr. Nonononono!!!!! The photo I am looking for conformation on is page #86 ("Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad"). There is a (post-war) T1, followed by a PB70 rebuild, then 3 - P70gsR....P70gsR #1 (narrow window), followed by P70gsR #2 (Picture window), and P70gsR #3 (Narrow window). A positive ID on the three cars above will validate several points.... #1 I had read elsewhere that the P70gsR "narrow window" cars were all rebuilt into the (1942) "picture window" cars. Not so if my read on this photo holds up...both versions of the P70gsR co-existed. #2 P70gsR "picture window" cars were originally (re)-built with full skirting. Partial "de-skirting" occurred during later shoppings Do you (or anyone else) agree that cars 3-5 are all P70gsR? Also...can any of our experts out there provide additional information regarding the photo, location, and name of the train? Thanks in advance... Brian Butcher ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:01:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! In a message dated 7/2/01 9:00:25 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << This reflects the greater legroom of the Ks, which were designed for overnight service. The GS's were blue ribbon day coaches. I am guessing at their intended assignment from the seating capacity. >> I confess I am puzzling out the differences in assignments. Originally the KRs were built for and assigned to the deluxe all-coach reserved seat Jeffersonian and Trailblazer. However, in 1946 consist books, the assignments get blurred. Granted there was still a mish-mosh left over from WWII, but there were just as likely to be a GS and KR side-by-side in a consist, both going St.Louis-NY or Chicago-Pittsburgh or Chicago-NY in trains like the Manhatten Limited, etc. By 1950 and 1951 consist lists, the assignments get even more blurred with the KR and GS cars again in same assignments. It does look like the preferred car for long distance service was the KR. Some of the GS cars were added weekend-only, perhaps because there were no KR's left. All speculation. Sorry to bring up the rivet question again, but I note you are adding the letterboard and belt rail relief. I have purchased some rub-on rivets to experiment with, but it looks rather daunting to do an entire car that way. If a way could be devised to do the letterboards and belt rails with rivets that would help a lot. The side panel rivets look a little more doable in a lifetime. Look forward to seeng the results of your efforts online sometime, Andy. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:09:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! In a message dated 7/2/01 12:24:04 PM Central Daylight Time, threebutchers@cs.com writes: << I had read elsewhere that the P70gsR "narrow window" cars were all rebuilt into the (1942) "picture window" cars. Not so if my read on this photo holds up...both versions of the P70gsR co-existed. >> Anyone, what is the difference between the GR and GSR? They are listed in consist books as "AC coach reclining seats" and "Streamlined Sch. 4 coaches", respectively. Are these perhaps what you are referring to as "narrow window" and "picture window" cars? If so, the GR existed into at least the early 50's side-by-side with the GSR in consists. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: [PRR] Chicago-Philly service in 1929 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:49:25 -0400 I received an e-mail asking about Chicago to Philadelphia service in 1929. It is followed by my response. Hopefully some of you can fill in the blanks: "I am researching some railroad information for a new mystery story. The story, "The Curse of Wrigley Field," will be posted on my website to help promote my new novel, KING OF HARLEM. Getting to the point, I am attempting to find out if the PRR (or another railroad, if need be) scheduled service between Chicago and Philadelphia. Also, which station would an overnight train from Chicago arrive in Philadelphia in the year 1929? Is there anyway of knowing how someone would travel from this station to reach Philadelphia's old Shibe Park?" My response: "I'll tell you what I know or was able to find, and then I'll post the question to the PRR mailing list & try to find out more. The Pennsylvania Railroad definitely had routes between Chicago & Philly. The Broadway Limited was one such train -- the top PRR passenger train. It was an extra-fare train, and probably would have been used only if your character was well-to-do. They had other trains serving Chicago, but ones I am aware of came into service in the late '30s/early '40s. I'll try to find out more. Shibe Park was bordered by W. 21st, W. Somerset, N. 20th, and W. Lehigh Streets. Broad Street station (which in 1929 was about to be replaced by 30th Street Station) was at 15th & Market St. That, according to Mapbast.com, is about 4.1 miles from the park. I'm not sure if there was a station stop closer to the park. I'll also try to find out arrival times. Since games were all played during the day, it would require either an early arrival, or an overnight stay. I'll get back to you when I find out more." So, remaining questions: What other named trains served Chicago in 1929 (the Jeffersonian & _____ [Trailblazer?] came later)? What times did they (including the Broadway) depart Chicago & arrive in Philly? Were there other stations closer to Shibe Park? How to get to the park from the station (cab/bus/trolley?) If he had to stay overnight, was there a hotel somewhere close? Thanks in advance. --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:06:00 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Bob, When both KRs and GSRs were assigned to the same train, my assumption has always been that passengers who purchased tickets for overnight legs would be assigned a seat on a KR, while passengers who purchased tickets for a daytime-only leg would be assigned seats in the GSR. I am progressing with the construction of the kits. The sides got a coat of Floquil "Mud" last night in preparation for masking with 1/64th in tape to produce the "delux" stripes. I fully expect this comment to spin off at least two email chains: one on the correct color of Delux, and the other on the correct width of the stripes ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/2/01 9:00:25 AM Central Daylight Time, > asmiller@mitre.org writes: > > << This reflects the greater legroom of the > Ks, which were designed for overnight service. The GS's were blue > ribbon day coaches. I am guessing at their intended assignment from > the seating capacity. >> > > I confess I am puzzling out the differences in assignments. Originally the > KRs were built for and assigned to the deluxe all-coach reserved seat > Jeffersonian and Trailblazer. However, in 1946 consist books, the > assignments get blurred. Granted there was still a mish-mosh left over from > WWII, but there were just as likely to be a GS and KR side-by-side in a > consist, both going St.Louis-NY or Chicago-Pittsburgh or Chicago-NY in trains > like the Manhatten Limited, etc. > > By 1950 and 1951 consist lists, the assignments get even more blurred with > the KR and GS cars again in same assignments. It does look like the > preferred car for long distance service was the KR. Some of the GS cars were > added weekend-only, perhaps because there were no KR's left. All speculation. > > Sorry to bring up the rivet question again, but I note you are adding the > letterboard and belt rail relief. I have purchased some rub-on rivets to > experiment with, but it looks rather daunting to do an entire car that way. > If a way could be devised to do the letterboards and belt rails with rivets > that would help a lot. The side panel rivets look a little more doable in a > lifetime. > > Look forward to seeng the results of your efforts online sometime, Andy. > > Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:11:45 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Bob, I believe that the "S" stood for "streamlined". AFAIK the GSRs had the flush ends to mate with streamlined cars. The GRs were the same interior configuration, but with arch roofs with rounded-off ends. All P70Gs were 68 seats, but the seats did not line up with the windows until the picture window rebuilds put 8 1/2 picture windows on a side rather than the original 9 1/2 window pairs. Thus on the outside, a P70G was indistinguishable from a P70f which was also a single vestibule rebuild, but with 76 seats. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/2/01 12:24:04 PM Central Daylight Time, > threebutchers@cs.com writes: > > << I had read elsewhere that the P70gsR "narrow window" cars were all rebuilt > into the (1942) "picture window" cars. Not so if my read on this photo holds > up...both versions of the P70gsR co-existed. >> > > Anyone, what is the difference between the GR and GSR? They are listed in > consist books as "AC coach reclining seats" and "Streamlined Sch. 4 > coaches", respectively. Are these perhaps what you are referring to as > "narrow window" and "picture window" cars? If so, the GR existed into at > least the early 50's side-by-side with the GSR in consists. > > Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:18:54 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Brian, I check pg 86 of "Mainline of the PRR". The second car is hard to ID because of the interference from the signal bridge. I think the third car is a P70K. It appears to have the restroom windows at both ends. I have little hope of telling what the rest of the consist is. It disappears into the haze. BTW did you notice that the T1 in the photo was one of the prototypes? Notice the "Buick" portavents on the pilot. Raymond Lowey was responsible for those functionless holes on both T1s and Buicks -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:07:59 -0400 From: "cwhary" Subject: [PRR] Painting Profile Request List, I am in need of a profile drawing showing the painting scheme that was used on the PRR T-1 #6110 tender. This is the original painting scheme with the large circle and keystone towards the end of the tender. I would like to contact independent decal companies in hopes of getting a set or two made. Anyone having this information or know where I can obtain a set please contact me off line at cwhary@paonline.com Thanks. -- Charles E. Whary -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:22:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! In a message dated 7/3/01 10:26:46 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << Raymond Lowey was responsible for those functionless holes on both T1s and Buicks >> Us Loewyphiles are being attacked on all sides :-). I wasn't aware that he was responsible for the Buick design. He did revolutionize car design from 1947 to the present with the Studebaker, definitely not a copy. And of course the Greyhound Scenicruiser. Tend to agree with you on the portholes on the T1 though. In some ways an inconsistency on his part since he normally was a form follows function kind of guy. Either here on another list someone hit on the impracticality of his S1 and original K4 shrouds. That is a case of optimizing only one variable. The original K4 probably had the lowest wind resistance of any loco design, at least on this side of the pond, but was not practical to maintain, again a surprising oversight on his part if you read what he writes on the subject of design. Interesting that the biggest criticism also comes from railfans who decry the hiding of the running gear, etc. In his book, Locomotive, Loewy praises world designs that cleaned up but didn't hide the function of the locomotive, but the original K4 seemed to do the latter. The four South Wind/Jeffersonian streamlined locos were better in that regard. Just some mental wanderings. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 13:44:04 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question/ Streamlined Steam Folks, Interesting that the subject of streamlined steam should come up, as just the other day at Barnes & Noble I picked up a book off the 'bargain' tables called "The Art of the Streamliner". And quite an interesting book it is, at least to someone as unfamilar with the subject as I am. Aside from exterior and interior photos, and some floor plans, there are short bio's of Lowey, Dreyfuss and Otto Kuhler. All of them had their strengths and weaknesses it seems, but I'm willing to nominate my candidates for best and worst of their jobs. For "best" I'll take Kuhler's B&O work, including the wonderful paint scheme most of us recall that road by.I'm not sure if he designed the Royal Blue's 'bullet" P7, but if so, he was truly a master of the art. As regards worst, I have to put forward the overturned bath tub-topped NYC Hudson used on the Mercury out of Detroit, one of Dreyfuss' early jobs. (His 20th Century Ltd hudsons are another matter). Just a matter of opinion, but those are mine.\Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:44:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Painting Profile Request In a message dated 7/3/01 11:18:28 AM Central Daylight Time, cwhary@paonline.com writes: << I am in need of a profile drawing showing the painting scheme that was used on the PRR T-1 #6110 tender. This is the original painting scheme with the large circle and keystone towards the end of the tender. I would like to contact independent decal companies in hopes of getting a set or two made. Anyone having this information or know where I can obtain a set please contact me off line at cwhary@paonline.com >> Do you have any info at all on the circle keystone on this loco? I have in my hospital ward an old Gem T1 model of the prototype T1s which had, for some inexplicable reason, a raised brass circle on the tender which was painted toluidine red. If I had ever gotten around to repairing the loco, I had intended to "flatten" that circle, assuming it was incorrect as-is, and repaint the tender. I have two decals, one an old Walthers HO scale (77-92) and one a Champ O-gauge Sharknose herald (OH-1), which I was going to evaluate for use. The Walthers one unfortunately had the circle filled in, I'm not thrilled with the proportions of the keystone on the Champ. I hate to use the old Gem loco for reference---anyone know the diameter of the prototype circle keystone? Also, was it Toluidine red? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 15:39:59 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question/ Streamlined Steam The best part of the book aside from the biographys is the terrific artwork of car interiors by Mitch Markovitz. Bennett Levin BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > Folks, > Interesting that the subject of streamlined steam should come up, as just the other day at Barnes & Noble I picked up a book off the 'bargain' tables called "The Art of the Streamliner". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 20:26:24 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] Lowey VVA249@aol.com wrote: > > I was not aware that Lowey ever had anything to do with the Buick - but > the holes (3 per side on the 6 cylinder; 4 per side on the 8) were originally > needed for a cooling problem - and became "functionless" only later - as they > were perceived to be a Buick trademark: to non rail fans Lowey's most famous > works are the Coke bottle and the Studebaker "Avanti" - which share one basic > concept: (Wasp waisted) > Henry Dreyfus' most famous design is the circular Honeywell thermostat > (he came up with the idea, he said, because contractors rarely installed a > rectangular one straight) An interesting test of time - the design still > looks modern 50 years later. > Raymond Lowey was asked to do some designs for the New York Central - but > felt it would be a conflict, because of his ties to the PRR, and recommended > his friend Dreyfus. > Dick Ross, > Cleveland Dick, The number of "Ventiports" on a Buick were determined by the model. The Specials and Supers had 3 ventiports per side; the Roadmasters and later (beginning in 1953) the Skylark had 4. Buicks in the '40's had straight 8's followed by their first V-8 in 1953. The Specials in 1953 had the straight 8's; everything else had V-8's. After 1953, all were V-8's. My dad had a 1953 Buick Special ( I believe the heater/defroster option was an $11.75 option); I still have the invoice from Wilke Buick which was/still is here in Philly. And just to keep this in a PRR vein, he used to get us (his sons) the PRR calendars. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:13:56 EDT Subject: [PRR] Lowey I was not aware that Lowey ever had anything to do with the Buick - but the holes (3 per side on the 6 cylinder; 4 per side on the 8) were originally needed for a cooling problem - and became "functionless" only later - as they were perceived to be a Buick trademark: to non rail fans Lowey's most famous works are the Coke bottle and the Studebaker "Avanti" - which share one basic concept: (Wasp waisted) Henry Dreyfus' most famous design is the circular Honeywell thermostat (he came up with the idea, he said, because contractors rarely installed a rectangular one straight) An interesting test of time - the design still looks modern 50 years later. Raymond Lowey was asked to do some designs for the New York Central - but felt it would be a conflict, because of his ties to the PRR, and recommended his friend Dreyfus. Dick Ross, Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Shelb68man@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:47:09 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" Hi everyone, I just thought I would mention that on Sat. July 21st. the state of Delaware will once again be sponsoring a railfanninig trip over former PRR trackage! The trip will begin 9:00 am at 30th Street Station in Phila. and go down to Laurel, DE. Stops will also be made for boarding at: Claymont, Wilmington, Fairplay Station, Newark, Middletown and Dover. This is the only time I believe that this part of the former PRR "Green Diamond" route is open to the public. Prices vary from $17.50 to $67.50 depending upon where you board. Unfortunately, Amtrak and not Bennett Levin is providing the train! Oh yeah, these prices also include admission to the Delaware State Fair in Harrington,DE. For more info and tickets you can call 1-800-652-5600. C. Chandler ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:17:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] Dulux In a message dated 7/3/01 11:11:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << I fully expect this comment to spin off at least two email chains: one on the correct color of Delux, and the other on the correct width of the stripes ;-) >> How about the correct spelling of DULUX - I never knew what "DULUX Gold" really was until they bought out a local Cleveland paint company - Dulux is actually the brand name! Dick Ross, Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:44:00 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS Drawing Collection - Microfilming In the past week or so in answer to a question posed by Gene Deimling regarding getting copies from the PRRT&HS microfilm drawing collection I had mentioned that Bob Johnson (Lewistown Station & Archive Chairman) would be processing requests for prints. I stand corrected - the procedure will not change - as before you should send your requests to - PRRT&HS - Microfilm P.O.Box 712 Altoona, PA 16603-0712 Fred Shaefer will receive all of the requests and pass them to the new microfilm operator for processing. Bob Johnson hopes to have some updated information in time for the July e-NEWS regarding the status of the microfilm machine, which is in need of repair. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. Al "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Drawing Collection - Microfilming Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:44:00 -0400 In the past week or so in answer to a question posed by Gene Deimling regarding getting copies from the PRRT&HS microfilm drawing collection I had mentioned that Bob Johnson (Lewistown Station & Archive Chairman) would be processing requests for prints. I stand corrected - the procedure will not change - as before you should send your requests to - PRRT&HS - Microfilm P.O.Box 712 Altoona, PA 16603-0712 Fred Shaefer will receive all of the requests and pass them to the new microfilm operator for processing. Bob Johnson hopes to have some updated information in time for the July e-NEWS regarding the status of the microfilm machine, which is in need of repair. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 23:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] New Calendar List, Picked up the new Audio-Visual 2002 Calendar today. Nice fresh photos. Especially nice is the BF-16's passing in front of the shops in Altoona, The M1a at Huntington Satation and the M1a at Rockville. Personally I have never seen any of these calendar pics published before. Nice........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Zak" Subject: [PRR] drumheads Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 05:37:15 -0400 I'm starting to detail and paint a batch of Rivarossi HO passenger cars and would like to know if any company makes the PRR drumhead - lighted or unlighted - for the 1930 tail car. I did a huge search of the Walthers site yesterday without finding anything. Thanks in advance. Zak ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Butcher" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:42:27 -0400 X-Apparently-From: ThreeButchers@cs.com > Brian, > > I check pg 86 of "Mainline of the PRR". The second car is hard to ID > because of the interference from the signal bridge. I think the third > car is a P70K. Andy; At first, I thought the third car (with "picture windows") was a P70kR too. But look closely at the roof vents...it has one circular roof vent (like the P70gsR), the P70kR had two circular vents. Also, I have recounted / rechecked the window arrangement of that car over a dozen times now...it keeps coming up P70gsR! Regarding the second and fourth "narrow window" streamlined cars, I will say that my knowledge, the P70gsR was the only narrow window car to receive the full skirt treatment. > BTW did you notice that the T1 in the photo was one of the prototypes? > Notice the "Buick" portavents on the pilot. Raymond Lowey was > responsible for those functionless holes on both T1s and Buicks Actually, it is not one of the T1 prototypes (#6110, #6111), but one of the early 1945-46 production models. How can you tell?....there are numerous ways including the # of sand fillers, # of cab steps, handrails, skirt depth, bow shape, and "open pilot" design. In fact many production locomotives were delivered with portholes, but they quickly disappeared. That is why I am stoked about this photo....it clearly dates it to around 1946. Also, the "portholes" were not totally functionless....the air pumps could be visually inspected using the portholes. There was an access door at that spot as well. Now about those Buicks?1?....:- ) Regards, Brian Butcher ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] drumheads Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:02:58 -0400 Zak:- Look on Walthers for Tomar Industries, Items #81-310 through 81-326, all are PRR drumheads, and are illuminated. They sell for $11.45 each. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zak" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 5:37 AM Subject: [PRR] drumheads > I'm starting to detail and paint a batch of Rivarossi HO passenger cars and > would like to know if any company makes the PRR drumhead - lighted or > unlighted - for the 1930 tail car. I did a huge search of the Walthers site > yesterday without finding anything. > Thanks in advance. > Zak > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:09:09 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: [PRR] 30th Street Station There is a very interesting and timely thread on Trainorders.com about 30th Street. It is found on their AMTRAK discussion page and the thread is titled "SHAME and trash" Happy Fourth! Bennett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Zak" Subject: [PRR] thanks Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:21:24 -0400 Thanks to CHUCK S, Gregg Mahlkov and Fred Rea for your help. I've heard about Tomar before. I wonder why it didn't pop up on my search at Walthers. Oh, well. A drumhead order is my next message.... Zak ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:15:54 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR location/era questions for model railroading Gize, Those of you who've seen the same signature block over the past years may be about to get a surprise. We're moving to a new house not far away, and are already wondering how much/little of the old HO layout will be salvageable. Truth is, the old layout is founded on the very latest 1970's technology, and even my wife and daughter are reminding me that we can do better. The immediate question, though, is exactly what to do. Operation of the old pike wound up representing (more or less) traffic between Columbus and Dayton, except that with 60 trains a day it was much busier than its prototype -- many prototype trains west of Columbus went around Dayton via Bradford OH, returning to the St. Louis main at New Paris OH. Keep in mind that I grew up between Dayton and Xenia, so vignettes of the area were part of the fun. However, I'm trying to think a bit more out of the box. In the coming months, I expect to debate questions like: 1. Should we focus on "my home town" again but try to do Xenia as the centerpiece? 2. Should we do Columbus' station, Yard A+B, St. Clair Avenue engine terminal/shops and some of the line toward Xenia? 3. Should we do the Little Miami to Cincinnati, and accentuate L&N traffic? 4. Should we go east out of Columbus? (Combined PRR and B&O traffic, PRR signals and B&O buildings). 5. Should we model the branchline remnants of the CL&N (darn little traffic, though). So I'd like to debate these. It's only fair that I point out that I'll be moving with a roster of almost 100 PRR and NYC diesels, so I'd expect to stay around 1968 at least at first. Hopefully, the result will balance current assets with "modelgenic" areas to switch and some historical content. I'm really busy right now, but find myself thinking about this stuff in the middle of the night. So any discussion will be welcome... Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Modeling the Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:15:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR location/era questions for model railroading Gize, Those of you who've seen the same signature block over the past years may be about to get a surprise. We're moving to a new house not far away, and are already wondering how much/little of the old HO layout will be salvageable. Truth is, the old layout is founded on the very latest 1970's technology, and even my wife and daughter are reminding me that we can do better. The immediate question, though, is exactly what to do. Operation of the old pike wound up representing (more or less) traffic between Columbus and Dayton, except that with 60 trains a day it was much busier than its prototype -- many prototype trains west of Columbus went around Dayton via Bradford OH, returning to the St. Louis main at New Paris OH. Keep in mind that I grew up between Dayton and Xenia, so vignettes of the area were part of the fun. However, I'm trying to think a bit more out of the box. In the coming months, I expect to debate questions like: 1. Should we focus on "my home town" again but try to do Xenia as the centerpiece? 2. Should we do Columbus' station, Yard A+B, St. Clair Avenue engine terminal/shops and some of the line toward Xenia? 3. Should we do the Little Miami to Cincinnati, and accentuate L&N traffic? 4. Should we go east out of Columbus? (Combined PRR and B&O traffic, PRR signals and B&O buildings). 5. Should we model the branchline remnants of the CL&N (darn little traffic, though). So I'd like to debate these. It's only fair that I point out that I'll be moving with a roster of almost 100 PRR and NYC diesels, so I'd expect to stay around 1968 at least at first. Hopefully, the result will balance current assets with "modelgenic" areas to switch and some historical content. I'm really busy right now, but find myself thinking about this stuff in the middle of the night. So any discussion will be welcome... Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Modeling the Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] N8 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:20:45 +0100 Does anyone have a copy of the Febuary 1970 article about modifing a Tyco caboose into an N8?, or any other ideas as how to make one? many thanks Patrick Grace www.prr.org.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] GL Hopper at Museum Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:38:24 -0400 Where was the GL hopper found or from whom was it recieved? The cross stakes are not typical PRR and it was never upgraded from a GL to GLc or GLca. --Greg Stone PRRT&HS member special interest the Renovo Yards Always seeking any information or photos of the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Goss" Subject: [PRR] PRR Depot in Richmond, Indiana Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:13:54 -0500 Hello everyone, I just did some updates on my website to include more information on the Pennsy RR depot in Richmond, Indiana and The Richmond Area Railroaders Society efforts to save. I also have information on the clubs 3rd annual Railroad Days. Check it out and let me know what you think! Thanks Doug Goss doug_goss@co.wayne.in.us http://www.railroaddays.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:31:17 -0400 Brian Carlson inquired about PRR motive power... >I am researching the >small yard at Warren Pa. I need to know what motive power was assigned as >switching power there in the 50's. 1957 to be exact. Thanks >Brian J Carlson >Cheektowaga NY > I don't know about 1957. I spent much time in Warren, PA in 1962-63. At that time, PRR Alco RS-3's were there. They were also used on the mainline freights and several were based as helpers for the grade between Emporium, PA and Keating Summit. Terry Stuart The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B 62 Beaver Street Fallston, PA 15066 www.forcomm.net/flagstop ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 04:45:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Patrick, list, The February 1970 RMC article isn't bad. It involves some window filling and cutting. A different approach is described in the April 1982 MR; it results in an N8 that's too short. A short article on making a scale length N8 is in the November 1982 MR. It's really a correction/addendum to the April 82 article; the 2 complement each other. As I recall, you'll need 2 carbodies for each N8 (listmemebers, please speak up; my copies are in storage). I've kitbashed 2 N8 cabin cars using the info in the November 82 MR; I like how they came out. I did one in the shadow keystone scheme before I backdated to 1948-52. My second N8 is in the as-delivered scheme with the circle keystone. Doug --- pgrace wrote: > Does anyone have a copy of the Febuary 1970 article > about modifing a Tyco > caboose into an N8?, or any other ideas as how to > make one? > > many thanks > > Patrick Grace > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 08:21:22 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Your assertion about the skirts being only on gsr's makes sense since AFAIK the P70fr's were rebuilt as 76 seat coaches for local service. The gsr were rebuilt for long distance, blue ribbon service, for day time travelers. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Brian Butcher wrote: > > > Brian, > > > > I check pg 86 of "Mainline of the PRR". The second car is hard to ID > > because of the interference from the signal bridge. I think the third > > car is a P70K. > > Andy; > At first, I thought the third car (with "picture windows") was a P70kR too. > But look closely at the roof vents...it has one circular roof vent (like the > P70gsR), the P70kR had two circular vents. Also, I have recounted / > rechecked the window arrangement of that car over a dozen times now...it > keeps coming up P70gsR! Regarding the second and fourth "narrow window" > streamlined cars, I will say that my knowledge, the P70gsR was the only > narrow window car to receive the full skirt treatment. > > > BTW did you notice that the T1 in the photo was one of the prototypes? > > Notice the "Buick" portavents on the pilot. Raymond Lowey was > > responsible for those functionless holes on both T1s and Buicks > > Actually, it is not one of the T1 prototypes (#6110, #6111), but one of the > early 1945-46 production models. How can you tell?....there are numerous > ways including the # of sand fillers, # of cab steps, handrails, skirt > depth, bow shape, and "open pilot" design. In fact many production > locomotives were delivered with portholes, but they quickly disappeared. > That is why I am stoked about this photo....it clearly dates it to around > 1946. > > Also, the "portholes" were not totally functionless....the air pumps could > be visually inspected using the portholes. There was an access door at that > spot as well. Now about those Buicks?1?....:- ) > > Regards, > Brian Butcher ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:05:20 -0400 Sorry for the confusion, Brian. I meant the latter. I believe the helpers were actually BASED at Emporium. JN tower, a small station, and a small engine facility were there when I visited in the early 60's. Warren was home to probably two or three Alcos. But they were in and out on a daily basis. Of course the highlight of each day was the "Buffalo Day Express," pulled by a single E-unit some days. It got progressively shorter. I was spared the agony of its final departure as I had already made mine. Terry Stuart Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E >Terry thanks for the reply, but are you sure you are correct? The grade over >Keating summit is on the line coming out of Renovo heading to Buffalo it >seems strange to me that RS3's would be stationed in Warren, 66 miles from >Renovo for that grade. Or did you mean that RS3's were used in Warren AND on >the grade at Keating Summit. Not that the Warren RS3's were used on the >grade. Thanks Brian > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "W. Terry Stuart" >To: "Brian J Carlson" ; "PRR Talk" > >Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 5:31 PM >Subject: Re: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E > > >> Brian Carlson inquired about PRR motive power... >> >> >I am researching the >> >small yard at Warren Pa. I need to know what motive power was assigned as >> >switching power there in the 50's. 1957 to be exact. Thanks >> >Brian J Carlson >> >Cheektowaga NY >> > >> >> >> I don't know about 1957. I spent much time in Warren, PA in 1962-63. At >> that time, PRR Alco RS-3's were there. They were also used on the >mainline >> freights and several were based as helpers for the grade between Emporium, >> PA and Keating Summit. >> >> Terry Stuart >> The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B >> 62 Beaver Street >> Fallston, PA 15066 >> www.forcomm.net/flagstop >> >> >> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 06:09:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Andrews Subject: [PRR] PRR mill gon Greetings, I recently built an E&B Valley 65' PRR mill gon. This kit is probably about 25 years old. When it was done, it just didn't look right - I think it sits too high on the trucks. I vaguely remember a magazine review (I think RMC) from about that many years ago where the reviewer gave some tips on improving the model. Anyone remember this? The TRAINS.COM index lists magazine articles but not product reviews. I have most of the old mags (somewhere). If anyone can provide any info to help me narrow it down, it will be greatly appreciated. Joe ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Hi Patrick, If you are undertaking the Tyco to N8 conversions try to find the older Mantua/Tyco car body. The reason for this is the cupola end windows are molded with frames. Saves time fixing that problem yourself. The later Tyco versions just have a large hole for the window. They can be had at train shows. The metal underframe under the old ones also helps them track better. I converted tons of those N8's. Well maybe not a ton, more like 50lbs worth anyway. Thats alot! My conversion involved flipping the roof section, filling in windows and cutting new windows in the proper location. I built the ends up with plastistruct channel to represent the collision posts and used brass wire for iron work. I finished them in all types of PRR/PC and Conrail schemes. By no way they were perfect representations, but that is the best that could be done. The only thing available then was old Alco and Gem Brass N8's The only addition to those models these days was the release of the Precision Scale N8 in which I was lucky enough to get when first released. Back in 1983ish or so I took 26 Mantua/Tyco converted N8's to a train show and those things flew out the door. No more building those again for me I will wait for the kit that everyone keeps wishing for. Good Luck!......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR Questions Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:36:10 -0400 Group, I have 2 questions for the group. 1. I have been looking at the book Many faces of the pennsy K4 and noticed that on a couple of pages Top Views I could see tha the hatch on the top of the cab was open. Was this a common thing and has anyone tried to model it? I am getting ready to start a Bowser K4 and was tossing around the idea of getting that look. 2. In everybody's opinion which is the better casting for a T1 the New Bowser or the old Penn Line(compared to prototytpe) Thanks in advance Sam Vastano _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Questions Sam, By all means use the new T1 Boiler! The detailing is far superior. Make sure you "pickle" the casting before painting too. I believe instructions are included. As for the K4 vent. Go for it. Most recent brass models have the hatch applied so it can be slid opened or closed. Any air circulation in a steamer would have been welcomed by the crews. Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:58:27 -0700 Forget about the old MR and RMC articles - the article you want if you do this conversion is Greg Martin's article in the November 1990 Mainline Modeler. Greg thinks it's somewhat dated by his standards, but for the rest of us, it's a great resource. He does a great job on describing all phases of the conversion from how to cut and reassemble the body, correcting the platform steps, adding the collision posts, and even includes an excellent trainphone antenna diagram. Please contact me off-list if you want a copy. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR mill gon Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:24:06 -0400 Hi guys, The class diagram for the G26 is on my website... It's a link off of http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G26 >From the diagram it looks like the bottom edge of the fishbelly should be 18" off the rails... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Benjamin > Hom > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 1:09 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Cc: Joseph Andrews > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR mill gon > > > Joe, the E&B Valley G26 gon review (by Walt Lankenau) is in the November > 1981 issue of RMC. You are correct - the car rides WAY too high over the > rails, and you'll have to cut off enough of the bolsters to have > the bottom > edge of the fishbelly car side about three feet above the rails. You'll > also have to install an offset Kadee or modify the coupler pockets as well > after lowering the car. > > > Ben Hom > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR mill gon Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:24:06 -0400 Hi guys, The class diagram for the G26 is on my website... It's a link off of http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G26 >From the diagram it looks like the bottom edge of the fishbelly should be 18" off the rails... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Benjamin > Hom > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 1:09 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Cc: Joseph Andrews > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR mill gon > > > Joe, the E&B Valley G26 gon review (by Walt Lankenau) is in the November > 1981 issue of RMC. You are correct - the car rides WAY too high over the > rails, and you'll have to cut off enough of the bolsters to have > the bottom > edge of the fishbelly car side about three feet above the rails. You'll > also have to install an offset Kadee or modify the coupler pockets as well > after lowering the car. > > > Ben Hom > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR mill gon Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:39:02 -0700 Rob Schoenberg commented: >From the diagram it looks like the bottom edge of the fishbelly should be 18" off the rails... Rob, agree with your call on what the diagram shows. The three foot recommendation came from the review, but upon further consideration may be more practical from a modeling point of view depending on truck/wheelset/bolster combinations. Ben Hom P.S. Great on-line resource, by the way! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 15:44:29 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" What is the "Green Diamond" Route? I never heard that applied to the lower part of the Delmarva Division where I live. Any info would be welcome. JimMCDaniel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] EQ: Richmod & Danville engines built at Altoona... Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:55:33 -0400 Hi all, I received a question about some Southern Railway steam locomotives that were originally built at Altoona for the SRR subsidiary, the Richmond & Danville. They are all 4-6-0's built at Altoona- cn# 423 blt 1879 to Richmond & Danville #3 and 300 cn# 424 blt 1879 to R&D # 4 and 301 cn# 485 blt 1880 to R&D # 5 and 302 cn# 486 blt 1880 to R&D # 6 and 303 cn# 487 blt 1880 to R&D #7 and 304 cn# 488, blt 1880 to R&D # 8 and 305 Do you know anything about these locomotives? Diagrams or class info would be greatly appreciated!! I don't know if these were built by the Pennsy new for the R&D or if they were bought secondhand from the Pennsy. I'm guessing from the consecutive construction numbers that they were probably built new for the R&D but don't know for sure... Thanks in advance! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steven Bundick" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:57:02 -0400 I think the name should be "Blue Diamond", referring to a short lived passenger train that ran from Delmar to Wilmington in 1965. According to John Hayman's 'Rails Along the Chesapeake', the PRR discontinued the remaining Delmarva passenger train (454 & 455?) in May 1965. Service at this point was Delmar and north. Evidently there was some public outcry with the loss of train service, and the PRR agreed to run a new train for a 6 month trial period. The train was called the "Blue Diamond", and the first run was on July 1, 1965. However, ridership was too low and the train was pulled at the end of the 6 month period. One would think that "Del-Mar-Va Express" or "Cavalier" would be associated with Delmarva rather than the "Blue Diamond". Also, I think the Illinois Central had a train called the "Green Diamond". -Steve >What is the "Green Diamond" Route? I never heard that applied to the >lower part of the Delmarva Division where I live. Any info would be >welcome. > >JimMCDaniel > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Re: PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:43:06 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Bundick" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:57 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" > I think the name should be "Blue Diamond", referring to a short lived > passenger train that ran from Delmar to Wilmington in 1965. According to > John Hayman's 'Rails Along the Chesapeake', the PRR discontinued the > remaining Delmarva passenger train (454 & 455?) in May 1965. Service at > this point was Delmar and north. Evidently there was some public outcry > with the loss of train service, and the PRR agreed to run a new train for a > 6 month trial period. The train was called the "Blue Diamond", and the first > run was on July 1, 1965. However, ridership was too low and the train was > pulled at the end of the 6 month period. > > One would think that "Del-Mar-Va Express" or "Cavalier" would be associated > with Delmarva rather than the "Blue Diamond". Also, I think the Illinois > Central had a train called the "Green Diamond". > > -Steve > > >What is the "Green Diamond" Route? I never heard that applied to the > >lower part of the Delmarva Division where I live. Any info would be > >welcome. > > > >JimMCDaniel > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Questions Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:22:46 -0400 I modeled the open hatch on my L1 and more recently a Bachman K4. When finished its a nice touch and its not all that difficult to do. The Bowser will be more work just because you have to cut through so much metal. Never the less I used .010 sheet styrene and .010 x .020 styrene strip. I say go for it. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Questions > Group, > > I have 2 questions for the group. > > 1. I have been looking at the book Many faces of the pennsy K4 and noticed > that on a couple of pages Top Views I could see tha the hatch on the top of > the cab was open. Was this a common thing and has anyone tried to model > it? I am getting ready to start a Bowser K4 and was tossing around the idea > of getting that look. > > > 2. In everybody's opinion which is the better casting for a T1 the New > Bowser or the old Penn Line(compared to prototytpe) > > Thanks in advance > > Sam Vastano > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 20:45:24 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Ben and all, Thanks for mentioning the conversion I did for the Pennsy Modelers out there. I did it about 1988 and searched several magazines before it got picked up by Mainline Modeler in 1990, can you believe it? MR turned it down said it was "overdone and complicated" some much for that crew. I have never approached them with my work since. The basics of the article are still on a par with todays modeler, but as Ben mentioned I will redo it and bring it up to my standards,as time permitts. Gary is right, if you can find an old Mantua it is a better starting point. I am working with a manufacturer to produce one in styrene, but it takes time to get these things done, be patient. I would make a couple of recommendations to anyone that is continplating an N-8 "kitbash" in the near future and that is to use .005" sytrene sheet with the rivets embossed (in mirror-inmage)and re-sheath the side. My brother has used this technique several times in print and it makes into a "brass-like" m! odel. I have seen a copy-cat N- 8 in the Seattle area by a modeler unknown to me and it was simply fantastic, and it made me rethink my standards... I can do better and will. While we wait for the forthcoming styrene kit try the "old" bash and I think you will be really happy with the out come. I don't want to knock the other conversions that were offered up in the magazines prior to mine but I felt they were too much work and too many compromises. Mine corrects the length, deals with the window spacing correctly (without a bunch extra cutting) and actually only takes about 5 hours to reassembly is complete (or less). Now you can just buy the antenna mast and the new stryene shapes from Evergreen and Plastistrc are much better than the old ABS ones I was forced to use. Life is Very GOOD! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Greg, Thats a neat idea your brother used in making the rivit pattern. I may have to try that on my near future project, the N8 in G Scale! If it dosn't work for me I will go back to drilling holes and inserting tiny brads for rivit heads much like I did with the N5b. Meanwhile my ungoing project, will or should debut before months end......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 20:55:22 -0400 From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] EQ: Richmod & Danville engines built at Altoona... My Prince book shows R&D #3 and 300, SRR #600, 1323 and 3323, cn#423, 1879, Sold 1/1922 Consol. Salvage R&D #4 and 301, SRR #601, 1324 and 3324, cn#424, 1879, Scrapped Alexandria 11/1911 R&D #5 and 302, SRR #602, 1325 and 3325, cn#485, 1880, Sold 3/1925 A&CM Rwy. R&D #6 and 303, SRR #603, 1326 and 3326, cn#486, 1880, Sold 1/1922 Consol. Salvage R&D #7 and 304, SRR #604, 1327 and 3327, cn#487, 1880, Scrapped Knoxville 9/1914 R&D #? and 305, SRR #605, Carolina & NW #200, cn#???, 1880, Sold 1914 Wyatt Lumber Ruston, LA No photos or diagrams. John Ryan Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Hi all, > > I received a question about some Southern Railway > steam locomotives that were originally built at > Altoona for the SRR subsidiary, the Richmond & Danville. > > They are all 4-6-0's built at Altoona- > cn# 423 blt 1879 to Richmond & Danville #3 and 300 > cn# 424 blt 1879 to R&D # 4 and 301 > cn# 485 blt 1880 to R&D # 5 and 302 > cn# 486 blt 1880 to R&D # 6 and 303 > cn# 487 blt 1880 to R&D #7 and 304 > cn# 488, blt 1880 to R&D # 8 and 305 > > Do you know anything about these locomotives? Diagrams > or class info would be greatly appreciated!! I don't know > if these were built by the Pennsy new for the R&D or if they > were bought secondhand from the Pennsy. I'm guessing from the > consecutive construction numbers that they were probably built > new for the R&D but don't know for sure... > > Thanks in advance! > > Rob > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 21:01:49 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR mill gon Gize, Well now we know the proper height from the rail and here is a simple fix that has worked for me. I remove the "post" used for the trucks to ride on and replace it with a plastic bolster from a "Jewel from the Junk box" sacrificed underframe, I have used the old Train Miniatures. Cement them into place with rubber cement and check the rail to fishbelly height and remove and adjust on a piece of sandpaper. It is not far off so sand only slightly. This has the benifit of giving your trucks a better ride and tracking and less leaning as I could never seem to get the darn post exactly straight... 3^) I hate that when it happens! Just a little note to keep in your hip pocket. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Butcher" Subject: [PRR] Z74dR "Quaker City" post correction Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:59:14 -0400 X-Apparently-From: ThreeButchers@cs.com List; While scanning the Spring 1988 Keystone, I found a short news article on the restoration of PRR Z74dR (PENNSYLVANIA #120). The trucks (being restored) for car #120 were PRR class 2F-P1. After careful study of older "Quaker City" photos, they too match the photo 2F-P1 being restored (while there may be other visual spotting differences, the 2E-P5 coil spring cup shape is different from the 2F-P1). Sorry for the mis-information... Brian ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 06:48:22 -0400 From: Dave McNeil Subject: [PRR] Flat Car decals Listers: I have or plan to buy several of the newer HW flatcars now available and need information on what decals you generally use to patch together sets for the following classes F29,31,35,37,FD1 for after 1954. I did the FD2-FW2 set already, but couldn't find some of the correct pieces. Thanks in advance, Dave McNeil PRRT&HS #1543 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Flat Car decals Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:34:27 -0400 A friend of mine did the flat car decals that Railworks shipped with the recent flat car releases. He said that he'd be willing to do a post 1954 set if I can get him some good photos of the flats in post 1954 paint... I don't think I have any later photos of the cars so if anyone on the list has good photos of the cars in later paint that can be used for creating a decal set, please let me know! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Dave > McNeil > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 6:48 AM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] Flat Car decals > > > Listers: > > I have or plan to buy several of the newer HW flatcars now available and > need information on what decals you generally use to patch together sets > for the following classes F29,31,35,37,FD1 for after 1954. I did the > FD2-FW2 set already, but couldn't find some of the correct pieces. > > Thanks in advance, > Dave McNeil > PRRT&HS #1543 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] K12 stock cars... Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:39:32 -0400 Hi all, Sometime in the 60's the Pennsy acquired 25 stock cars from the Erie Lackawanna. They became PRR class K12. An Erie-Lackawanna fan friend of mine asked if I had any info on the cars in their PRR life or any photos of the cars in PRR paint. I came up empty... On my PRR freight car web site I only have that the number series was 131300-131324. Does anyone have any more info on the K12's? How about some photos in PRR paint?! Thanks! Rob http://prr.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Shelb68man@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:20:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" Hi Jim, sorry about the confusion-my brain went "color blind" on this one! Steve and Gregg are correct. The Blue Diamond is the correct name. The state of Delaware does not associate either the "Green Diamond or "Blue Diamond with this train. I used it because I believe it was the last regular passenger service down the state. C. Chandler ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:49:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Sam, I finished my Bowser T1 in 2000. I like the looks of the engine; to my mind the new Bowser boiler is nicer than the old Penn line casting (I've seen the old boiler at Timonium shows and elsewhere). One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part number 150007. It's sides are cut down like most (if not all) were by the late 40s. Doug --- Sam Vastano wrote, in part: > 2. In everybody's opinion which is the better > casting for a T1 the New > Bowser or the old Penn Line(compared to prototytpe) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Model Loco Detail Help. Lists, I am on the look out for a particular detail found on certain steam locos. I need the Train Name Sign for the "Jeffersonian". I am painting an HO Scale version of one of those 1940 Streamlined K4s's. The finishing touch will be mounting this detail part. This little detail was once available from Custom Railway Supply. They have long since closed shops. I am hoping someone here has one of these brass etchings in their spare parts drawers? If so please drop me an email. As always, Thank You......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] MP= Steam Loco name train sign Q? Lists, I am on the look out for a particular detail found on certain steam locos. I need the Train Name Sign for the "Jeffersonian". I am painting an HO Scale version of one of those 1940 Streamlined K4s's. The finishing touch will be mounting this detail part. This little detail was once available from Custom Railway Supply. They have long since closed shops. I am hoping someone here has one of these brass etchings in their spare parts drawers? If so please drop me an email. As always, Thank You......Gary "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Loco Detail Help. Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:17:16 -0400 You may want to try Northern Scale Models. IIRC, they offered the train names as well as the round and keystone number plates. Dennis Mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES (732) 271-0800 Voice http://www.onerrave.com (732) 271-0805 FAX 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Mittner To: ; ; Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: [PRR] Model Loco Detail Help. > Lists, > > I am on the look out for a particular detail found on certain steam > locos. I need the Train Name Sign for the "Jeffersonian". I am painting > an HO Scale version of one of those 1940 Streamlined K4s's. The > finishing touch will be mounting this detail part. This little detail > was once available from Custom Railway Supply. They have long since > closed shops. I am hoping someone here has one of these brass etchings > in their spare parts drawers? If so please drop me an email. > As always, Thank You......Gary > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] K12 stock cars... Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:07:53 +0100 Rob, List, There was a series of articles in the RMC in 1993 covering late Eastern Stock Cars, tne January 1993 issue has a photo of a K12 in PRR paint on page 106. regards Patrick Grace www.prr.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Schoenberg" To: "PRR-talk" Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 4:39 PM Subject: [PRR] K12 stock cars... > Hi all, > > Sometime in the 60's the Pennsy acquired 25 stock cars from the Erie > Lackawanna. They became PRR class K12. > An Erie-Lackawanna fan friend of mine asked if I had any info on the cars in > their PRR life or any photos of the cars in PRR paint. I came up empty... > On my PRR freight car web site I only have that the number series was > 131300-131324. Does anyone have any more info on the K12's? How about some > photos in PRR paint?! > > Thanks! > > Rob > http://prr.railfan.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "K-Hiyama" Subject: RE: [PRR] N8 Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:30:55 +0900 Lists, Here are the photos of how I did with IHC caboose. For the details, please look into the following photos. http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Toys/9237/caboose/n8.html Have a nice weekend. Kazuaki Hiyama kzhym@po.net-ibaraki.ne.jp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/04/01 Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:53:43 -0400 Dick Ross Wrote Subject: Dulux From: Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:17:00 EDT In a message dated 7/3/01 11:11:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << I fully expect this comment to spin off at least two email chains: one on the correct color of Delux, and the other on the correct width of the stripes ;-) >> How about the correct spelling of DULUX - I never knew what "DULUX Gold" really was until they bought out a local Cleveland paint company - Dulux is actually the brand name! Dick Ross, Cleveland I am now up to the July 4 PRR-Talk Digest, and am making progress. I just couldn't resist adding to the aforementioned message. In my archives, I found the "1953 Trade-Mark Dictionary" published by the National Paint, Varnish and Lacquer, Inc. They DULUX as a registered trade mark of E. I. duPont de Nemours & Co., Wilmington, Del. You win the cigar, Dick. DULUX is the name of a paint. DULUX Gold is the color of that paint used for painting certain areas of PRR equipment. For my next trick, I'll prove that DGLE is really black! Carl P. Izzo Industrial Paint Consultant PRRT&HS # 832 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:13:28 -0400 Bruce, Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the solid sides on the tender either whay did they stop making the brass sided tender?? Sam >From: Bruce F Smith >To: Doug Kisala >CC: Sam Vastano , PRR talk >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) > >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part > >Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a >step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" >locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her >builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind >loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the >humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real >life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they >consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 > >Happy Rails >Bruce > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:13:28 -0400 Bruce, Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the solid sides on the tender either whay did they stop making the brass sided tender?? Sam >From: Bruce F Smith >To: Doug Kisala >CC: Sam Vastano , PRR talk >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) > >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part > >Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a >step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" >locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her >builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind >loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the >humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real >life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they >consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 > >Happy Rails >Bruce > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:13:28 -0400 Bruce, Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the solid sides on the tender either whay did they stop making the brass sided tender?? Sam >From: Bruce F Smith >To: Doug Kisala >CC: Sam Vastano , PRR talk >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) > >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part > >Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a >step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" >locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her >builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind >loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the >humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real >life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they >consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 > >Happy Rails >Bruce > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 02:18:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 In a message dated 7/7/01 9:18:41 PM Central Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << the fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! >> Well, Bruce, there is 5542 in 1946 on page 92 of Pennsy Steam 1, but your point about the heavy casting rather than sheet metal only makes me kick myself again for not picking up an old Pennline or Bowser brass T1 tender being sold at the GMTS at DuPage a few years ago. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 02:18:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 In a message dated 7/7/01 9:18:41 PM Central Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << the fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! >> Well, Bruce, there is 5542 in 1946 on page 92 of Pennsy Steam 1, but your point about the heavy casting rather than sheet metal only makes me kick myself again for not picking up an old Pennline or Bowser brass T1 tender being sold at the GMTS at DuPage a few years ago. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 02:18:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 In a message dated 7/7/01 9:18:41 PM Central Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << the fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! >> Well, Bruce, there is 5542 in 1946 on page 92 of Pennsy Steam 1, but your point about the heavy casting rather than sheet metal only makes me kick myself again for not picking up an old Pennline or Bowser brass T1 tender being sold at the GMTS at DuPage a few years ago. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 08:18:27 -0400 Doug, I have from an e-bay adventure a T1 tender that is like the brass sided tender only the sides are aluminum? Is it a Penn Line? The Mechanism is a single motor with shaft to the other wheel set. I would still like to make a rigid frame for it but I am not a machinist. Well life goes on, mabe someday. Thanks Again Sam >From: Doug Kisala >To: Sam Vastano >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:26:51 -0700 (PDT) > >Sam, > >The tender from the "old" T1 (brass sides) is still >sold by Bowser (part number 150007). > >Doug > >--- Sam Vastano wrote: > > Bruce, > > > > Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the > > solid sides on the tender > > either whay did they stop making the brass sided > > tender?? > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > >From: Bruce F Smith > > >To: Doug Kisala > > >CC: Sam Vastano , PRR talk > > > > >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 > > >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) > > > > > >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > > > > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser > > kit > > > > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides > > of the > > > > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). > > I > > > > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high > > sided > > > > tender), but you could consider buying the old > > Bowser > > > > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, > > part > > > > > >Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a > > step forward, we take a > > >step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a > > "post porthole" > > >locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, > > of T-1 #5511 in her > > >builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings > > (again) a one of a kind > > >loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender > > is cast with the > > >humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet > > metal seen in real > > >life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for > > Trainstuff that they > > >consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is > > #5511 > > > > > >Happy Rails > > >Bruce > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the > > message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:01:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sam Vastano wrote: > > Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the solid sides on the tender > either whay did they stop making the brass sided tender?? I don't have the precise date but it was 3 or 4 years ago that the "revised" kit was released. Production appeared to have stopped on the older kit some time (perhaps substantially) before the new one was released. Before y'all blow your life savings on the "old" tender, it was no gem either, that is unless you like exposed screw heads? Me? I'm still working (once in a while) on a proper chassis for my T-1. The screw holes in the boiler top are long gone, and I have obtained bearings that actually work. I'm working on springing now...could be a lifetime project . Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:13:51 -0400 Bruce, How did you get rid of the screws??? I have thought many long hours to try & get rid of them. Do you have any photos you could share with us? Or would that be a trade secret? Thanks Sam >From: Bruce F Smith >To: Sam Vastano >CC: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:01:30 -0500 (CDT) > >On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sam Vastano wrote: > > > > Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the solid sides on the >tender > > either whay did they stop making the brass sided tender?? > >I don't have the precise date but it was 3 or 4 years ago that the >"revised" kit was released. Production appeared to have stopped on the >older kit some time (perhaps substantially) before the new one was >released. Before y'all blow your life savings on the "old" tender, it >was no gem either, that is unless you like exposed screw heads? > >Me? I'm still working (once in a while) on a proper chassis for my T-1. >The screw holes in the boiler top are long gone, and I have obtained >bearings that actually work. I'm working on springing now...could be a >lifetime project . > > Happy Rails >Bruce > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 02:00:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] Md and Conemaugh Div ETTs available At http://prr.dementia.org/documents/ you can now find a 1935 Maryland Division ETT and a 1937 Conemaugh Division ETT (since I promised Dave Wartell I'd push the Md Div one to the top of the to be scanned pile it was actually done before the Conemaugh one;-) Each is 11mb. A (large, over 250 pages and about 25mb) 1967 Western Region ETT will follow tomorrow after I figure out why my PDF bookmarks aren't nesting the way I want them to, and I have a 1958 New York Region ETT on the scanner now. About a dozen more ETTs and at least 4 track charts are in the backlog behind these. If you have problems, need more information, or anything of that nature, please send email direct to shadow@dementia.org -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:36:43 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Bowser H-21a's in N Scale From: Jerry Britton Lee English has notified me that N scale H-21a's are now in the design stage. This project is a "go"!!! It will likely be several months until part numbers/paint schemes for ordering are available, as HO scale GLa hoppers are due first. I'm guessing that we are looking at delivery late in 2001/early 2002. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andrew harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 12:18:10 -0400 >I have from an e-bay adventure a T1 tender that is like the brass >sided>tender only the sides are aluminum? Is it a Penn Line? ____________________________________________________________________ Yes. When I bought my first Penn Line T1 kit in around 1960, the tender sides were sheet aluminum. Andrew h. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:24:56 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 At 10:13 PM -0400 7/8/01, Sam Vastano wrote: >Bruce, > >How did you get rid of the screws??? I have thought many long hours to try >& get rid of them. Do you have any photos you could share with us? Or >would that be a trade secret? My approach is as follows. I wanted to "rigidize" the T-1 for a more prototypical appearance. The chassis I am working on is a classic sheet brass approach, which will support the locomotive under the firebox and at the pilot. Each set of drivers is independently powered through a can motor and an NWSL gearbox, and each motor will have its own DCC decoder (one with sound). I filled the holes in the top of the boiler with body putty (bondo will do!) and sanded them down. I do need to patch the filling slightly as painting showed an imperfection or two...Sorry, no pictures yet. Some additional detailign will be possible with the new chassis: -brake shoes -possibly brake rigging -springs -revised valve gear hangers etc... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:30:02 -0400 From: "David J. Wartell" Subject: Re: [PRR] Md and Conemaugh Div ETTs available Thanks Derrick. I will probably download it at work as here at home it says it will take about 1.5 hours to download. Dave At 2:00 AM -0400 7/9/01, Derrick J Brashear wrote: >At http://prr.dementia.org/documents/ you can now find >a 1935 Maryland Division ETT and a 1937 Conemaugh Division ETT (since I >promised Dave Wartell I'd push the Md Div one to the top of the to be >scanned pile it was actually done before the Conemaugh one;-) > >Each is 11mb. > >A (large, over 250 pages and about 25mb) 1967 Western Region ETT will >follow tomorrow after I figure out why my PDF bookmarks aren't nesting the >way I want them to, and I have a 1958 New York Region ETT on the scanner >now. About a dozen more ETTs and at least 4 track charts are in the >backlog behind these. > >If you have problems, need more information, or anything of that nature, >please send email direct to shadow@dementia.org > >-D > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". Dave Wartell djwartel@ix.netcom.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:16:47 -0400 Hopefully someone there will have this information. I am researching the small yard at Warren Pa. I need to know what motive power was assigned as switching power there in the 50's. 1957 to be exact. Thanks Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 02:07:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] FP 7 with a broken nose...3^) Hey Gize, At one point Bill Volkmer sometime back supplied with the date and Location of the wreck that the PRR FP 7 #4359 was involved in (which caused it's nose to be replaced). Can anyone refresh myself and Dan Cupper as we are very interested in that information. If not, can someone update me with Bill Volkmer's email address my old address for him, mine bounces. I still have the photo Bill sent me but I have forgotten the date and location. Excuse my intrusion... Thanks Again Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:59:28 -0400 Bruce, Sounds Awsome! Let us know of your progress. I still want pictures. What I would give to see a real T1 in person!! I was born 30 years too late! Sam >From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." >To: "Sam Vastano" >CC: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:24:56 -0500 > >At 10:13 PM -0400 7/8/01, Sam Vastano wrote: > >Bruce, > > > >How did you get rid of the screws??? I have thought many long hours to >try > >& get rid of them. Do you have any photos you could share with us? Or > >would that be a trade secret? > >My approach is as follows. I wanted to "rigidize" the T-1 for a more >prototypical appearance. The chassis I am working on is a classic sheet >brass approach, which will support the locomotive under the firebox and at >the pilot. Each set of drivers is independently powered through a can >motor and an NWSL gearbox, and each motor will have its own DCC decoder >(one with sound). I filled the holes in the top of the boiler with body >putty (bondo will do!) and sanded them down. I do need to patch the >filling slightly as painting showed an imperfection or two...Sorry, no >pictures yet. > >Some additional detailign will be possible with the new chassis: >-brake shoes >-possibly brake rigging >-springs >-revised valve gear hangers >etc... > >Happy Rails >Bruce > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > >"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin >Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:11:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 In a message dated 7/10/01 7:06:43 AM Central Daylight Time, svastano@hotmail.com writes: << What I would give to see a real T1 in person!! I was born 30 years too late! >> I would have loved to see one run, too. As a child I was fortunate enough to see one simmering at the bumpers in Chicago Union Station. My mother had taken me to St. Louis and back on the Alton (GM&O) and the T1 had just arrived before we did. My only other Pennsy steamer I saw was a J1 on the Panhandle near Beverly Junction. I have just received my T1 helix humper kit from Alliance (hurray!) so my T1 project is next after I paint my NWSL-remotored I1 and (finally) install the Soundtraxx decoder in my M1. Been doing diesels--squeezed a decoder into my Kato NW2, antennaed and lift-ringed my Genesis F7's and the tuscan P2K E7's I had lying around. Ran the latter two at our club open house Sunday. Apologies to the list for the ramble, but I am feeling proud of my sudden spurt of activity after not accomplishing much for about six months. Funny---shouldn't I get more modeling done in the winter? Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listser