From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/13/01 Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 22:14:40 -0400 On 06/13/01, Joe Szarmach wrote: Also, does anyone know the color "formula" or a description for "Tuscan Red" (i.e. one that I can take to a paint store and have 40 gallons of "Tuscan Red" paint mixed)?? I bought an old piece of PRR railroad equipment I need to paint. Thanks in advance. Joe Szarmach jszarmach @ aol . com In his answer to Joe on 06/13/01, Jerry Britton wrote: > The PRRT&HS sells color drift cards. You can take one to a paint store and have them match it. There is no "formula" that can be provided generically. Each brand of paint uses its own base formulas so each would yield different results. (Carl Izzo, the list's resident paint expert, may chip on on this.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Thanks Jerry! Not only am I the list's resident expert, I am the world's greatest paint consultant, concert pianist and ping pong champion. As usual, I am many weeks behind on PRR-Talk and am reading this for the first time this evening. Jerry is right about paint formulations. Paint stores now use tint bases and universal colorants. You take your color chip to the store, the clerk matches it as closely as he can to one of his color chips and key punches the code on the back of his color chip into the color matching "computer". The colorants are measured automatically and added to the can of tint base, the can is shaken, you pay the clerk and go on your merry way rejoicing. With luck, you may have the right color. In a factory where ready mixed paint is made, The colors are ground into the resins. After the paint is made the colors are checked instrumentally or visually sometimes in the lab by a paint chemist or technician. If the color is not correct, it is "shaded" by the chemist or technician by adding a little bit of or a little bit of that until the proper shade is achieved. So much for the lesson on paint making. Several companies made paints for the PRR. DuPont was one of them. I know this because several years ago, I got a quart of duPont Dulux Mars Red Medium 98-394H AKA Toluidine Red (used as the background color on Keystone number plates) and a quart of duPont Dulux Gold 056D (used for painting the numbers and other things). For the record the important things here are the numbers. Although I got these paints from a duPont salesman who handled transportation finishes, it was my understanding that these finishes could be reproduced using duPont formulations. He was kind enough to look up the numbers for me and to get me the paints. I don't know what Bennett Levin did for his paint. I meet him and know he is a bright guy who may have taken the same route. I don't like to give advice; but If I were you, I would try my luck at a duPont store. If that doesn't work, try their marketing department. You may have to pay a premium price for 40 gallons because paint is made in 1000 gallon batches, but at least you would have the right color. Carl P. Izzo Industrial Paint Consultant ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:52:26 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Brian, I finally got a chance to look at "Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad" over the week-end. I presume the photo you are talking about is the one in then smokey Pittsburgh yard toward the end of the book (page 119?). Its a great broadside shot of a rebuilt P70; but its a P70Kr not a P70GSr. The Ks have 7 and a half window on that side, while the GS's have eight and a half windows. This reflects the greater legroom of the Ks, which were designed for overnight service. The GS's were blue ribbon day coaches. I am guessing at their intended assignment from the seating capacity. Also the Ks had large restrooms, one at either end - typical of an overnight coach (like a P85b), while the GS's had two small restrooms at the A end of the car. Note that the car in "Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad" has two small window at each end of the car. One set is for one restroom, the other set is for the off-center corridor around the restroom. BTW, I've finally started work on my Laser Horizons P70GSr's. The first thing I did was add some relief to the sides by gluing .010 styrene over the letter board, and building up a belt rail from .010x.020 over .010x.040 Evergreen styrene strip. I am using the photos in PRR Color Guide Vol. 1. Not only is the photo on pg. 13 a GS, but also on the previous pages, several of the cars half out of the photo(s) are also GS's. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Brian Butcher wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew S. Miller" > To: "Brian Butcher" > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 12:21 PM > Subject: Re: P70gsR Question... > > > Brian, > > > > Yes the PENNSY pic is the one in the rain. And thanx for telling me of > > the one in "Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad". I'll have to look > > tonight. > > > > Regards, > > > > Andy Miller > > asmiller@mitre.org > > > > ================================================== > Hello Andy; > > I do not have access to the picture of the P70gs cars in the PENNSY Magazine > as you mention above. > > I think you said in a previous post that the picture was taken when K4s 1461 > was dedicated on Horseshoe Curve (circa 1957...) > Can you tell me if the cars in that photo have a full / deep skirt.....or > slim / partial skirt (as seen in the picture book PRR Color Guide to Freight > and Passenger Equipment - pg 13) > > I am 99% I know the answer, but I need to be certain....Thanks in advance > for your help > > BTW, did you look up the "suspect" picture of P70gsR cars I forwarded to you > in an earlier link... "Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad"....What do you > think? > > Regards; > Brian Butcher > EWM -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Butcher" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:12:41 -0400 X-Apparently-From: ThreeButchers@cs.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew S. Miller" To: "Brian Butcher" Cc: "PRR Modeling" ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! > Brian, > > I finally got a chance to look at "Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad" > over the week-end. I presume the photo you are talking about is the one > in then smokey Pittsburgh yard toward the end of the book (page 119?). > Its a great broadside shot of a rebuilt P70; but its a P70Kr not a > P70GSr. Nonononono!!!!! The photo I am looking for conformation on is page #86 ("Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad"). There is a (post-war) T1, followed by a PB70 rebuild, then 3 - P70gsR....P70gsR #1 (narrow window), followed by P70gsR #2 (Picture window), and P70gsR #3 (Narrow window). A positive ID on the three cars above will validate several points.... #1 I had read elsewhere that the P70gsR "narrow window" cars were all rebuilt into the (1942) "picture window" cars. Not so if my read on this photo holds up...both versions of the P70gsR co-existed. #2 P70gsR "picture window" cars were originally (re)-built with full skirting. Partial "de-skirting" occurred during later shoppings Do you (or anyone else) agree that cars 3-5 are all P70gsR? Also...can any of our experts out there provide additional information regarding the photo, location, and name of the train? Thanks in advance... Brian Butcher ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:01:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! In a message dated 7/2/01 9:00:25 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << This reflects the greater legroom of the Ks, which were designed for overnight service. The GS's were blue ribbon day coaches. I am guessing at their intended assignment from the seating capacity. >> I confess I am puzzling out the differences in assignments. Originally the KRs were built for and assigned to the deluxe all-coach reserved seat Jeffersonian and Trailblazer. However, in 1946 consist books, the assignments get blurred. Granted there was still a mish-mosh left over from WWII, but there were just as likely to be a GS and KR side-by-side in a consist, both going St.Louis-NY or Chicago-Pittsburgh or Chicago-NY in trains like the Manhatten Limited, etc. By 1950 and 1951 consist lists, the assignments get even more blurred with the KR and GS cars again in same assignments. It does look like the preferred car for long distance service was the KR. Some of the GS cars were added weekend-only, perhaps because there were no KR's left. All speculation. Sorry to bring up the rivet question again, but I note you are adding the letterboard and belt rail relief. I have purchased some rub-on rivets to experiment with, but it looks rather daunting to do an entire car that way. If a way could be devised to do the letterboards and belt rails with rivets that would help a lot. The side panel rivets look a little more doable in a lifetime. Look forward to seeng the results of your efforts online sometime, Andy. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:09:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! In a message dated 7/2/01 12:24:04 PM Central Daylight Time, threebutchers@cs.com writes: << I had read elsewhere that the P70gsR "narrow window" cars were all rebuilt into the (1942) "picture window" cars. Not so if my read on this photo holds up...both versions of the P70gsR co-existed. >> Anyone, what is the difference between the GR and GSR? They are listed in consist books as "AC coach reclining seats" and "Streamlined Sch. 4 coaches", respectively. Are these perhaps what you are referring to as "narrow window" and "picture window" cars? If so, the GR existed into at least the early 50's side-by-side with the GSR in consists. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: [PRR] Chicago-Philly service in 1929 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:49:25 -0400 I received an e-mail asking about Chicago to Philadelphia service in 1929. It is followed by my response. Hopefully some of you can fill in the blanks: "I am researching some railroad information for a new mystery story. The story, "The Curse of Wrigley Field," will be posted on my website to help promote my new novel, KING OF HARLEM. Getting to the point, I am attempting to find out if the PRR (or another railroad, if need be) scheduled service between Chicago and Philadelphia. Also, which station would an overnight train from Chicago arrive in Philadelphia in the year 1929? Is there anyway of knowing how someone would travel from this station to reach Philadelphia's old Shibe Park?" My response: "I'll tell you what I know or was able to find, and then I'll post the question to the PRR mailing list & try to find out more. The Pennsylvania Railroad definitely had routes between Chicago & Philly. The Broadway Limited was one such train -- the top PRR passenger train. It was an extra-fare train, and probably would have been used only if your character was well-to-do. They had other trains serving Chicago, but ones I am aware of came into service in the late '30s/early '40s. I'll try to find out more. Shibe Park was bordered by W. 21st, W. Somerset, N. 20th, and W. Lehigh Streets. Broad Street station (which in 1929 was about to be replaced by 30th Street Station) was at 15th & Market St. That, according to Mapbast.com, is about 4.1 miles from the park. I'm not sure if there was a station stop closer to the park. I'll also try to find out arrival times. Since games were all played during the day, it would require either an early arrival, or an overnight stay. I'll get back to you when I find out more." So, remaining questions: What other named trains served Chicago in 1929 (the Jeffersonian & _____ [Trailblazer?] came later)? What times did they (including the Broadway) depart Chicago & arrive in Philly? Were there other stations closer to Shibe Park? How to get to the park from the station (cab/bus/trolley?) If he had to stay overnight, was there a hotel somewhere close? Thanks in advance. --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:06:00 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Bob, When both KRs and GSRs were assigned to the same train, my assumption has always been that passengers who purchased tickets for overnight legs would be assigned a seat on a KR, while passengers who purchased tickets for a daytime-only leg would be assigned seats in the GSR. I am progressing with the construction of the kits. The sides got a coat of Floquil "Mud" last night in preparation for masking with 1/64th in tape to produce the "delux" stripes. I fully expect this comment to spin off at least two email chains: one on the correct color of Delux, and the other on the correct width of the stripes ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/2/01 9:00:25 AM Central Daylight Time, > asmiller@mitre.org writes: > > << This reflects the greater legroom of the > Ks, which were designed for overnight service. The GS's were blue > ribbon day coaches. I am guessing at their intended assignment from > the seating capacity. >> > > I confess I am puzzling out the differences in assignments. Originally the > KRs were built for and assigned to the deluxe all-coach reserved seat > Jeffersonian and Trailblazer. However, in 1946 consist books, the > assignments get blurred. Granted there was still a mish-mosh left over from > WWII, but there were just as likely to be a GS and KR side-by-side in a > consist, both going St.Louis-NY or Chicago-Pittsburgh or Chicago-NY in trains > like the Manhatten Limited, etc. > > By 1950 and 1951 consist lists, the assignments get even more blurred with > the KR and GS cars again in same assignments. It does look like the > preferred car for long distance service was the KR. Some of the GS cars were > added weekend-only, perhaps because there were no KR's left. All speculation. > > Sorry to bring up the rivet question again, but I note you are adding the > letterboard and belt rail relief. I have purchased some rub-on rivets to > experiment with, but it looks rather daunting to do an entire car that way. > If a way could be devised to do the letterboards and belt rails with rivets > that would help a lot. The side panel rivets look a little more doable in a > lifetime. > > Look forward to seeng the results of your efforts online sometime, Andy. > > Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:11:45 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Bob, I believe that the "S" stood for "streamlined". AFAIK the GSRs had the flush ends to mate with streamlined cars. The GRs were the same interior configuration, but with arch roofs with rounded-off ends. All P70Gs were 68 seats, but the seats did not line up with the windows until the picture window rebuilds put 8 1/2 picture windows on a side rather than the original 9 1/2 window pairs. Thus on the outside, a P70G was indistinguishable from a P70f which was also a single vestibule rebuild, but with 76 seats. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/2/01 12:24:04 PM Central Daylight Time, > threebutchers@cs.com writes: > > << I had read elsewhere that the P70gsR "narrow window" cars were all rebuilt > into the (1942) "picture window" cars. Not so if my read on this photo holds > up...both versions of the P70gsR co-existed. >> > > Anyone, what is the difference between the GR and GSR? They are listed in > consist books as "AC coach reclining seats" and "Streamlined Sch. 4 > coaches", respectively. Are these perhaps what you are referring to as > "narrow window" and "picture window" cars? If so, the GR existed into at > least the early 50's side-by-side with the GSR in consists. > > Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:18:54 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Brian, I check pg 86 of "Mainline of the PRR". The second car is hard to ID because of the interference from the signal bridge. I think the third car is a P70K. It appears to have the restroom windows at both ends. I have little hope of telling what the rest of the consist is. It disappears into the haze. BTW did you notice that the T1 in the photo was one of the prototypes? Notice the "Buick" portavents on the pilot. Raymond Lowey was responsible for those functionless holes on both T1s and Buicks -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:07:59 -0400 From: "cwhary" Subject: [PRR] Painting Profile Request List, I am in need of a profile drawing showing the painting scheme that was used on the PRR T-1 #6110 tender. This is the original painting scheme with the large circle and keystone towards the end of the tender. I would like to contact independent decal companies in hopes of getting a set or two made. Anyone having this information or know where I can obtain a set please contact me off line at cwhary@paonline.com Thanks. -- Charles E. Whary -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:22:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! In a message dated 7/3/01 10:26:46 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << Raymond Lowey was responsible for those functionless holes on both T1s and Buicks >> Us Loewyphiles are being attacked on all sides :-). I wasn't aware that he was responsible for the Buick design. He did revolutionize car design from 1947 to the present with the Studebaker, definitely not a copy. And of course the Greyhound Scenicruiser. Tend to agree with you on the portholes on the T1 though. In some ways an inconsistency on his part since he normally was a form follows function kind of guy. Either here on another list someone hit on the impracticality of his S1 and original K4 shrouds. That is a case of optimizing only one variable. The original K4 probably had the lowest wind resistance of any loco design, at least on this side of the pond, but was not practical to maintain, again a surprising oversight on his part if you read what he writes on the subject of design. Interesting that the biggest criticism also comes from railfans who decry the hiding of the running gear, etc. In his book, Locomotive, Loewy praises world designs that cleaned up but didn't hide the function of the locomotive, but the original K4 seemed to do the latter. The four South Wind/Jeffersonian streamlined locos were better in that regard. Just some mental wanderings. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 13:44:04 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question/ Streamlined Steam Folks, Interesting that the subject of streamlined steam should come up, as just the other day at Barnes & Noble I picked up a book off the 'bargain' tables called "The Art of the Streamliner". And quite an interesting book it is, at least to someone as unfamilar with the subject as I am. Aside from exterior and interior photos, and some floor plans, there are short bio's of Lowey, Dreyfuss and Otto Kuhler. All of them had their strengths and weaknesses it seems, but I'm willing to nominate my candidates for best and worst of their jobs. For "best" I'll take Kuhler's B&O work, including the wonderful paint scheme most of us recall that road by.I'm not sure if he designed the Royal Blue's 'bullet" P7, but if so, he was truly a master of the art. As regards worst, I have to put forward the overturned bath tub-topped NYC Hudson used on the Mercury out of Detroit, one of Dreyfuss' early jobs. (His 20th Century Ltd hudsons are another matter). Just a matter of opinion, but those are mine.\Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:44:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Painting Profile Request In a message dated 7/3/01 11:18:28 AM Central Daylight Time, cwhary@paonline.com writes: << I am in need of a profile drawing showing the painting scheme that was used on the PRR T-1 #6110 tender. This is the original painting scheme with the large circle and keystone towards the end of the tender. I would like to contact independent decal companies in hopes of getting a set or two made. Anyone having this information or know where I can obtain a set please contact me off line at cwhary@paonline.com >> Do you have any info at all on the circle keystone on this loco? I have in my hospital ward an old Gem T1 model of the prototype T1s which had, for some inexplicable reason, a raised brass circle on the tender which was painted toluidine red. If I had ever gotten around to repairing the loco, I had intended to "flatten" that circle, assuming it was incorrect as-is, and repaint the tender. I have two decals, one an old Walthers HO scale (77-92) and one a Champ O-gauge Sharknose herald (OH-1), which I was going to evaluate for use. The Walthers one unfortunately had the circle filled in, I'm not thrilled with the proportions of the keystone on the Champ. I hate to use the old Gem loco for reference---anyone know the diameter of the prototype circle keystone? Also, was it Toluidine red? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 15:39:59 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question/ Streamlined Steam The best part of the book aside from the biographys is the terrific artwork of car interiors by Mitch Markovitz. Bennett Levin BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > Folks, > Interesting that the subject of streamlined steam should come up, as just the other day at Barnes & Noble I picked up a book off the 'bargain' tables called "The Art of the Streamliner". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 20:26:24 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] Lowey VVA249@aol.com wrote: > > I was not aware that Lowey ever had anything to do with the Buick - but > the holes (3 per side on the 6 cylinder; 4 per side on the 8) were originally > needed for a cooling problem - and became "functionless" only later - as they > were perceived to be a Buick trademark: to non rail fans Lowey's most famous > works are the Coke bottle and the Studebaker "Avanti" - which share one basic > concept: (Wasp waisted) > Henry Dreyfus' most famous design is the circular Honeywell thermostat > (he came up with the idea, he said, because contractors rarely installed a > rectangular one straight) An interesting test of time - the design still > looks modern 50 years later. > Raymond Lowey was asked to do some designs for the New York Central - but > felt it would be a conflict, because of his ties to the PRR, and recommended > his friend Dreyfus. > Dick Ross, > Cleveland Dick, The number of "Ventiports" on a Buick were determined by the model. The Specials and Supers had 3 ventiports per side; the Roadmasters and later (beginning in 1953) the Skylark had 4. Buicks in the '40's had straight 8's followed by their first V-8 in 1953. The Specials in 1953 had the straight 8's; everything else had V-8's. After 1953, all were V-8's. My dad had a 1953 Buick Special ( I believe the heater/defroster option was an $11.75 option); I still have the invoice from Wilke Buick which was/still is here in Philly. And just to keep this in a PRR vein, he used to get us (his sons) the PRR calendars. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:13:56 EDT Subject: [PRR] Lowey I was not aware that Lowey ever had anything to do with the Buick - but the holes (3 per side on the 6 cylinder; 4 per side on the 8) were originally needed for a cooling problem - and became "functionless" only later - as they were perceived to be a Buick trademark: to non rail fans Lowey's most famous works are the Coke bottle and the Studebaker "Avanti" - which share one basic concept: (Wasp waisted) Henry Dreyfus' most famous design is the circular Honeywell thermostat (he came up with the idea, he said, because contractors rarely installed a rectangular one straight) An interesting test of time - the design still looks modern 50 years later. Raymond Lowey was asked to do some designs for the New York Central - but felt it would be a conflict, because of his ties to the PRR, and recommended his friend Dreyfus. Dick Ross, Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Shelb68man@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:47:09 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" Hi everyone, I just thought I would mention that on Sat. July 21st. the state of Delaware will once again be sponsoring a railfanninig trip over former PRR trackage! The trip will begin 9:00 am at 30th Street Station in Phila. and go down to Laurel, DE. Stops will also be made for boarding at: Claymont, Wilmington, Fairplay Station, Newark, Middletown and Dover. This is the only time I believe that this part of the former PRR "Green Diamond" route is open to the public. Prices vary from $17.50 to $67.50 depending upon where you board. Unfortunately, Amtrak and not Bennett Levin is providing the train! Oh yeah, these prices also include admission to the Delaware State Fair in Harrington,DE. For more info and tickets you can call 1-800-652-5600. C. Chandler ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:17:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] Dulux In a message dated 7/3/01 11:11:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << I fully expect this comment to spin off at least two email chains: one on the correct color of Delux, and the other on the correct width of the stripes ;-) >> How about the correct spelling of DULUX - I never knew what "DULUX Gold" really was until they bought out a local Cleveland paint company - Dulux is actually the brand name! Dick Ross, Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:44:00 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS Drawing Collection - Microfilming In the past week or so in answer to a question posed by Gene Deimling regarding getting copies from the PRRT&HS microfilm drawing collection I had mentioned that Bob Johnson (Lewistown Station & Archive Chairman) would be processing requests for prints. I stand corrected - the procedure will not change - as before you should send your requests to - PRRT&HS - Microfilm P.O.Box 712 Altoona, PA 16603-0712 Fred Shaefer will receive all of the requests and pass them to the new microfilm operator for processing. Bob Johnson hopes to have some updated information in time for the July e-NEWS regarding the status of the microfilm machine, which is in need of repair. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. Al "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Drawing Collection - Microfilming Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:44:00 -0400 In the past week or so in answer to a question posed by Gene Deimling regarding getting copies from the PRRT&HS microfilm drawing collection I had mentioned that Bob Johnson (Lewistown Station & Archive Chairman) would be processing requests for prints. I stand corrected - the procedure will not change - as before you should send your requests to - PRRT&HS - Microfilm P.O.Box 712 Altoona, PA 16603-0712 Fred Shaefer will receive all of the requests and pass them to the new microfilm operator for processing. Bob Johnson hopes to have some updated information in time for the July e-NEWS regarding the status of the microfilm machine, which is in need of repair. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 23:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] New Calendar List, Picked up the new Audio-Visual 2002 Calendar today. Nice fresh photos. Especially nice is the BF-16's passing in front of the shops in Altoona, The M1a at Huntington Satation and the M1a at Rockville. Personally I have never seen any of these calendar pics published before. Nice........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Zak" Subject: [PRR] drumheads Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 05:37:15 -0400 I'm starting to detail and paint a batch of Rivarossi HO passenger cars and would like to know if any company makes the PRR drumhead - lighted or unlighted - for the 1930 tail car. I did a huge search of the Walthers site yesterday without finding anything. Thanks in advance. Zak ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Butcher" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:42:27 -0400 X-Apparently-From: ThreeButchers@cs.com > Brian, > > I check pg 86 of "Mainline of the PRR". The second car is hard to ID > because of the interference from the signal bridge. I think the third > car is a P70K. Andy; At first, I thought the third car (with "picture windows") was a P70kR too. But look closely at the roof vents...it has one circular roof vent (like the P70gsR), the P70kR had two circular vents. Also, I have recounted / rechecked the window arrangement of that car over a dozen times now...it keeps coming up P70gsR! Regarding the second and fourth "narrow window" streamlined cars, I will say that my knowledge, the P70gsR was the only narrow window car to receive the full skirt treatment. > BTW did you notice that the T1 in the photo was one of the prototypes? > Notice the "Buick" portavents on the pilot. Raymond Lowey was > responsible for those functionless holes on both T1s and Buicks Actually, it is not one of the T1 prototypes (#6110, #6111), but one of the early 1945-46 production models. How can you tell?....there are numerous ways including the # of sand fillers, # of cab steps, handrails, skirt depth, bow shape, and "open pilot" design. In fact many production locomotives were delivered with portholes, but they quickly disappeared. That is why I am stoked about this photo....it clearly dates it to around 1946. Also, the "portholes" were not totally functionless....the air pumps could be visually inspected using the portholes. There was an access door at that spot as well. Now about those Buicks?1?....:- ) Regards, Brian Butcher ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] drumheads Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:02:58 -0400 Zak:- Look on Walthers for Tomar Industries, Items #81-310 through 81-326, all are PRR drumheads, and are illuminated. They sell for $11.45 each. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zak" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 5:37 AM Subject: [PRR] drumheads > I'm starting to detail and paint a batch of Rivarossi HO passenger cars and > would like to know if any company makes the PRR drumhead - lighted or > unlighted - for the 1930 tail car. I did a huge search of the Walthers site > yesterday without finding anything. > Thanks in advance. > Zak > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:09:09 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: [PRR] 30th Street Station There is a very interesting and timely thread on Trainorders.com about 30th Street. It is found on their AMTRAK discussion page and the thread is titled "SHAME and trash" Happy Fourth! Bennett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Zak" Subject: [PRR] thanks Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:21:24 -0400 Thanks to CHUCK S, Gregg Mahlkov and Fred Rea for your help. I've heard about Tomar before. I wonder why it didn't pop up on my search at Walthers. Oh, well. A drumhead order is my next message.... Zak ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:15:54 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR location/era questions for model railroading Gize, Those of you who've seen the same signature block over the past years may be about to get a surprise. We're moving to a new house not far away, and are already wondering how much/little of the old HO layout will be salvageable. Truth is, the old layout is founded on the very latest 1970's technology, and even my wife and daughter are reminding me that we can do better. The immediate question, though, is exactly what to do. Operation of the old pike wound up representing (more or less) traffic between Columbus and Dayton, except that with 60 trains a day it was much busier than its prototype -- many prototype trains west of Columbus went around Dayton via Bradford OH, returning to the St. Louis main at New Paris OH. Keep in mind that I grew up between Dayton and Xenia, so vignettes of the area were part of the fun. However, I'm trying to think a bit more out of the box. In the coming months, I expect to debate questions like: 1. Should we focus on "my home town" again but try to do Xenia as the centerpiece? 2. Should we do Columbus' station, Yard A+B, St. Clair Avenue engine terminal/shops and some of the line toward Xenia? 3. Should we do the Little Miami to Cincinnati, and accentuate L&N traffic? 4. Should we go east out of Columbus? (Combined PRR and B&O traffic, PRR signals and B&O buildings). 5. Should we model the branchline remnants of the CL&N (darn little traffic, though). So I'd like to debate these. It's only fair that I point out that I'll be moving with a roster of almost 100 PRR and NYC diesels, so I'd expect to stay around 1968 at least at first. Hopefully, the result will balance current assets with "modelgenic" areas to switch and some historical content. I'm really busy right now, but find myself thinking about this stuff in the middle of the night. So any discussion will be welcome... Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Modeling the Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:15:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR location/era questions for model railroading Gize, Those of you who've seen the same signature block over the past years may be about to get a surprise. We're moving to a new house not far away, and are already wondering how much/little of the old HO layout will be salvageable. Truth is, the old layout is founded on the very latest 1970's technology, and even my wife and daughter are reminding me that we can do better. The immediate question, though, is exactly what to do. Operation of the old pike wound up representing (more or less) traffic between Columbus and Dayton, except that with 60 trains a day it was much busier than its prototype -- many prototype trains west of Columbus went around Dayton via Bradford OH, returning to the St. Louis main at New Paris OH. Keep in mind that I grew up between Dayton and Xenia, so vignettes of the area were part of the fun. However, I'm trying to think a bit more out of the box. In the coming months, I expect to debate questions like: 1. Should we focus on "my home town" again but try to do Xenia as the centerpiece? 2. Should we do Columbus' station, Yard A+B, St. Clair Avenue engine terminal/shops and some of the line toward Xenia? 3. Should we do the Little Miami to Cincinnati, and accentuate L&N traffic? 4. Should we go east out of Columbus? (Combined PRR and B&O traffic, PRR signals and B&O buildings). 5. Should we model the branchline remnants of the CL&N (darn little traffic, though). So I'd like to debate these. It's only fair that I point out that I'll be moving with a roster of almost 100 PRR and NYC diesels, so I'd expect to stay around 1968 at least at first. Hopefully, the result will balance current assets with "modelgenic" areas to switch and some historical content. I'm really busy right now, but find myself thinking about this stuff in the middle of the night. So any discussion will be welcome... Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Modeling the Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] N8 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:20:45 +0100 Does anyone have a copy of the Febuary 1970 article about modifing a Tyco caboose into an N8?, or any other ideas as how to make one? many thanks Patrick Grace www.prr.org.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] GL Hopper at Museum Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:38:24 -0400 Where was the GL hopper found or from whom was it recieved? The cross stakes are not typical PRR and it was never upgraded from a GL to GLc or GLca. --Greg Stone PRRT&HS member special interest the Renovo Yards Always seeking any information or photos of the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Goss" Subject: [PRR] PRR Depot in Richmond, Indiana Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:13:54 -0500 Hello everyone, I just did some updates on my website to include more information on the Pennsy RR depot in Richmond, Indiana and The Richmond Area Railroaders Society efforts to save. I also have information on the clubs 3rd annual Railroad Days. Check it out and let me know what you think! Thanks Doug Goss doug_goss@co.wayne.in.us http://www.railroaddays.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:31:17 -0400 Brian Carlson inquired about PRR motive power... >I am researching the >small yard at Warren Pa. I need to know what motive power was assigned as >switching power there in the 50's. 1957 to be exact. Thanks >Brian J Carlson >Cheektowaga NY > I don't know about 1957. I spent much time in Warren, PA in 1962-63. At that time, PRR Alco RS-3's were there. They were also used on the mainline freights and several were based as helpers for the grade between Emporium, PA and Keating Summit. Terry Stuart The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B 62 Beaver Street Fallston, PA 15066 www.forcomm.net/flagstop ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 04:45:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Patrick, list, The February 1970 RMC article isn't bad. It involves some window filling and cutting. A different approach is described in the April 1982 MR; it results in an N8 that's too short. A short article on making a scale length N8 is in the November 1982 MR. It's really a correction/addendum to the April 82 article; the 2 complement each other. As I recall, you'll need 2 carbodies for each N8 (listmemebers, please speak up; my copies are in storage). I've kitbashed 2 N8 cabin cars using the info in the November 82 MR; I like how they came out. I did one in the shadow keystone scheme before I backdated to 1948-52. My second N8 is in the as-delivered scheme with the circle keystone. Doug --- pgrace wrote: > Does anyone have a copy of the Febuary 1970 article > about modifing a Tyco > caboose into an N8?, or any other ideas as how to > make one? > > many thanks > > Patrick Grace > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 08:21:22 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70gsR Question...(again)! Your assertion about the skirts being only on gsr's makes sense since AFAIK the P70fr's were rebuilt as 76 seat coaches for local service. The gsr were rebuilt for long distance, blue ribbon service, for day time travelers. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Brian Butcher wrote: > > > Brian, > > > > I check pg 86 of "Mainline of the PRR". The second car is hard to ID > > because of the interference from the signal bridge. I think the third > > car is a P70K. > > Andy; > At first, I thought the third car (with "picture windows") was a P70kR too. > But look closely at the roof vents...it has one circular roof vent (like the > P70gsR), the P70kR had two circular vents. Also, I have recounted / > rechecked the window arrangement of that car over a dozen times now...it > keeps coming up P70gsR! Regarding the second and fourth "narrow window" > streamlined cars, I will say that my knowledge, the P70gsR was the only > narrow window car to receive the full skirt treatment. > > > BTW did you notice that the T1 in the photo was one of the prototypes? > > Notice the "Buick" portavents on the pilot. Raymond Lowey was > > responsible for those functionless holes on both T1s and Buicks > > Actually, it is not one of the T1 prototypes (#6110, #6111), but one of the > early 1945-46 production models. How can you tell?....there are numerous > ways including the # of sand fillers, # of cab steps, handrails, skirt > depth, bow shape, and "open pilot" design. In fact many production > locomotives were delivered with portholes, but they quickly disappeared. > That is why I am stoked about this photo....it clearly dates it to around > 1946. > > Also, the "portholes" were not totally functionless....the air pumps could > be visually inspected using the portholes. There was an access door at that > spot as well. Now about those Buicks?1?....:- ) > > Regards, > Brian Butcher ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:05:20 -0400 Sorry for the confusion, Brian. I meant the latter. I believe the helpers were actually BASED at Emporium. JN tower, a small station, and a small engine facility were there when I visited in the early 60's. Warren was home to probably two or three Alcos. But they were in and out on a daily basis. Of course the highlight of each day was the "Buffalo Day Express," pulled by a single E-unit some days. It got progressively shorter. I was spared the agony of its final departure as I had already made mine. Terry Stuart Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E >Terry thanks for the reply, but are you sure you are correct? The grade over >Keating summit is on the line coming out of Renovo heading to Buffalo it >seems strange to me that RS3's would be stationed in Warren, 66 miles from >Renovo for that grade. Or did you mean that RS3's were used in Warren AND on >the grade at Keating Summit. Not that the Warren RS3's were used on the >grade. Thanks Brian > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "W. Terry Stuart" >To: "Brian J Carlson" ; "PRR Talk" > >Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 5:31 PM >Subject: Re: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E > > >> Brian Carlson inquired about PRR motive power... >> >> >I am researching the >> >small yard at Warren Pa. I need to know what motive power was assigned as >> >switching power there in the 50's. 1957 to be exact. Thanks >> >Brian J Carlson >> >Cheektowaga NY >> > >> >> >> I don't know about 1957. I spent much time in Warren, PA in 1962-63. At >> that time, PRR Alco RS-3's were there. They were also used on the >mainline >> freights and several were based as helpers for the grade between Emporium, >> PA and Keating Summit. >> >> Terry Stuart >> The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B >> 62 Beaver Street >> Fallston, PA 15066 >> www.forcomm.net/flagstop >> >> >> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 06:09:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Andrews Subject: [PRR] PRR mill gon Greetings, I recently built an E&B Valley 65' PRR mill gon. This kit is probably about 25 years old. When it was done, it just didn't look right - I think it sits too high on the trucks. I vaguely remember a magazine review (I think RMC) from about that many years ago where the reviewer gave some tips on improving the model. Anyone remember this? The TRAINS.COM index lists magazine articles but not product reviews. I have most of the old mags (somewhere). If anyone can provide any info to help me narrow it down, it will be greatly appreciated. Joe ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Hi Patrick, If you are undertaking the Tyco to N8 conversions try to find the older Mantua/Tyco car body. The reason for this is the cupola end windows are molded with frames. Saves time fixing that problem yourself. The later Tyco versions just have a large hole for the window. They can be had at train shows. The metal underframe under the old ones also helps them track better. I converted tons of those N8's. Well maybe not a ton, more like 50lbs worth anyway. Thats alot! My conversion involved flipping the roof section, filling in windows and cutting new windows in the proper location. I built the ends up with plastistruct channel to represent the collision posts and used brass wire for iron work. I finished them in all types of PRR/PC and Conrail schemes. By no way they were perfect representations, but that is the best that could be done. The only thing available then was old Alco and Gem Brass N8's The only addition to those models these days was the release of the Precision Scale N8 in which I was lucky enough to get when first released. Back in 1983ish or so I took 26 Mantua/Tyco converted N8's to a train show and those things flew out the door. No more building those again for me I will wait for the kit that everyone keeps wishing for. Good Luck!......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR Questions Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:36:10 -0400 Group, I have 2 questions for the group. 1. I have been looking at the book Many faces of the pennsy K4 and noticed that on a couple of pages Top Views I could see tha the hatch on the top of the cab was open. Was this a common thing and has anyone tried to model it? I am getting ready to start a Bowser K4 and was tossing around the idea of getting that look. 2. In everybody's opinion which is the better casting for a T1 the New Bowser or the old Penn Line(compared to prototytpe) Thanks in advance Sam Vastano _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Questions Sam, By all means use the new T1 Boiler! The detailing is far superior. Make sure you "pickle" the casting before painting too. I believe instructions are included. As for the K4 vent. Go for it. Most recent brass models have the hatch applied so it can be slid opened or closed. Any air circulation in a steamer would have been welcomed by the crews. Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:58:27 -0700 Forget about the old MR and RMC articles - the article you want if you do this conversion is Greg Martin's article in the November 1990 Mainline Modeler. Greg thinks it's somewhat dated by his standards, but for the rest of us, it's a great resource. He does a great job on describing all phases of the conversion from how to cut and reassemble the body, correcting the platform steps, adding the collision posts, and even includes an excellent trainphone antenna diagram. Please contact me off-list if you want a copy. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR mill gon Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:24:06 -0400 Hi guys, The class diagram for the G26 is on my website... It's a link off of http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G26 >From the diagram it looks like the bottom edge of the fishbelly should be 18" off the rails... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Benjamin > Hom > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 1:09 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Cc: Joseph Andrews > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR mill gon > > > Joe, the E&B Valley G26 gon review (by Walt Lankenau) is in the November > 1981 issue of RMC. You are correct - the car rides WAY too high over the > rails, and you'll have to cut off enough of the bolsters to have > the bottom > edge of the fishbelly car side about three feet above the rails. You'll > also have to install an offset Kadee or modify the coupler pockets as well > after lowering the car. > > > Ben Hom > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR mill gon Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:24:06 -0400 Hi guys, The class diagram for the G26 is on my website... It's a link off of http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G26 >From the diagram it looks like the bottom edge of the fishbelly should be 18" off the rails... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Benjamin > Hom > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 1:09 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Cc: Joseph Andrews > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR mill gon > > > Joe, the E&B Valley G26 gon review (by Walt Lankenau) is in the November > 1981 issue of RMC. You are correct - the car rides WAY too high over the > rails, and you'll have to cut off enough of the bolsters to have > the bottom > edge of the fishbelly car side about three feet above the rails. You'll > also have to install an offset Kadee or modify the coupler pockets as well > after lowering the car. > > > Ben Hom > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR mill gon Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:39:02 -0700 Rob Schoenberg commented: >From the diagram it looks like the bottom edge of the fishbelly should be 18" off the rails... Rob, agree with your call on what the diagram shows. The three foot recommendation came from the review, but upon further consideration may be more practical from a modeling point of view depending on truck/wheelset/bolster combinations. Ben Hom P.S. Great on-line resource, by the way! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 15:44:29 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" What is the "Green Diamond" Route? I never heard that applied to the lower part of the Delmarva Division where I live. Any info would be welcome. JimMCDaniel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] EQ: Richmod & Danville engines built at Altoona... Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:55:33 -0400 Hi all, I received a question about some Southern Railway steam locomotives that were originally built at Altoona for the SRR subsidiary, the Richmond & Danville. They are all 4-6-0's built at Altoona- cn# 423 blt 1879 to Richmond & Danville #3 and 300 cn# 424 blt 1879 to R&D # 4 and 301 cn# 485 blt 1880 to R&D # 5 and 302 cn# 486 blt 1880 to R&D # 6 and 303 cn# 487 blt 1880 to R&D #7 and 304 cn# 488, blt 1880 to R&D # 8 and 305 Do you know anything about these locomotives? Diagrams or class info would be greatly appreciated!! I don't know if these were built by the Pennsy new for the R&D or if they were bought secondhand from the Pennsy. I'm guessing from the consecutive construction numbers that they were probably built new for the R&D but don't know for sure... Thanks in advance! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steven Bundick" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:57:02 -0400 I think the name should be "Blue Diamond", referring to a short lived passenger train that ran from Delmar to Wilmington in 1965. According to John Hayman's 'Rails Along the Chesapeake', the PRR discontinued the remaining Delmarva passenger train (454 & 455?) in May 1965. Service at this point was Delmar and north. Evidently there was some public outcry with the loss of train service, and the PRR agreed to run a new train for a 6 month trial period. The train was called the "Blue Diamond", and the first run was on July 1, 1965. However, ridership was too low and the train was pulled at the end of the 6 month period. One would think that "Del-Mar-Va Express" or "Cavalier" would be associated with Delmarva rather than the "Blue Diamond". Also, I think the Illinois Central had a train called the "Green Diamond". -Steve >What is the "Green Diamond" Route? I never heard that applied to the >lower part of the Delmarva Division where I live. Any info would be >welcome. > >JimMCDaniel > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Re: PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:43:06 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Bundick" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:57 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" > I think the name should be "Blue Diamond", referring to a short lived > passenger train that ran from Delmar to Wilmington in 1965. According to > John Hayman's 'Rails Along the Chesapeake', the PRR discontinued the > remaining Delmarva passenger train (454 & 455?) in May 1965. Service at > this point was Delmar and north. Evidently there was some public outcry > with the loss of train service, and the PRR agreed to run a new train for a > 6 month trial period. The train was called the "Blue Diamond", and the first > run was on July 1, 1965. However, ridership was too low and the train was > pulled at the end of the 6 month period. > > One would think that "Del-Mar-Va Express" or "Cavalier" would be associated > with Delmarva rather than the "Blue Diamond". Also, I think the Illinois > Central had a train called the "Green Diamond". > > -Steve > > >What is the "Green Diamond" Route? I never heard that applied to the > >lower part of the Delmarva Division where I live. Any info would be > >welcome. > > > >JimMCDaniel > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Questions Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:22:46 -0400 I modeled the open hatch on my L1 and more recently a Bachman K4. When finished its a nice touch and its not all that difficult to do. The Bowser will be more work just because you have to cut through so much metal. Never the less I used .010 sheet styrene and .010 x .020 styrene strip. I say go for it. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Questions > Group, > > I have 2 questions for the group. > > 1. I have been looking at the book Many faces of the pennsy K4 and noticed > that on a couple of pages Top Views I could see tha the hatch on the top of > the cab was open. Was this a common thing and has anyone tried to model > it? I am getting ready to start a Bowser K4 and was tossing around the idea > of getting that look. > > > 2. In everybody's opinion which is the better casting for a T1 the New > Bowser or the old Penn Line(compared to prototytpe) > > Thanks in advance > > Sam Vastano > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 20:45:24 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Ben and all, Thanks for mentioning the conversion I did for the Pennsy Modelers out there. I did it about 1988 and searched several magazines before it got picked up by Mainline Modeler in 1990, can you believe it? MR turned it down said it was "overdone and complicated" some much for that crew. I have never approached them with my work since. The basics of the article are still on a par with todays modeler, but as Ben mentioned I will redo it and bring it up to my standards,as time permitts. Gary is right, if you can find an old Mantua it is a better starting point. I am working with a manufacturer to produce one in styrene, but it takes time to get these things done, be patient. I would make a couple of recommendations to anyone that is continplating an N-8 "kitbash" in the near future and that is to use .005" sytrene sheet with the rivets embossed (in mirror-inmage)and re-sheath the side. My brother has used this technique several times in print and it makes into a "brass-like" m! odel. I have seen a copy-cat N- 8 in the Seattle area by a modeler unknown to me and it was simply fantastic, and it made me rethink my standards... I can do better and will. While we wait for the forthcoming styrene kit try the "old" bash and I think you will be really happy with the out come. I don't want to knock the other conversions that were offered up in the magazines prior to mine but I felt they were too much work and too many compromises. Mine corrects the length, deals with the window spacing correctly (without a bunch extra cutting) and actually only takes about 5 hours to reassembly is complete (or less). Now you can just buy the antenna mast and the new stryene shapes from Evergreen and Plastistrc are much better than the old ABS ones I was forced to use. Life is Very GOOD! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Greg, Thats a neat idea your brother used in making the rivit pattern. I may have to try that on my near future project, the N8 in G Scale! If it dosn't work for me I will go back to drilling holes and inserting tiny brads for rivit heads much like I did with the N5b. Meanwhile my ungoing project, will or should debut before months end......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 20:55:22 -0400 From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] EQ: Richmod & Danville engines built at Altoona... My Prince book shows R&D #3 and 300, SRR #600, 1323 and 3323, cn#423, 1879, Sold 1/1922 Consol. Salvage R&D #4 and 301, SRR #601, 1324 and 3324, cn#424, 1879, Scrapped Alexandria 11/1911 R&D #5 and 302, SRR #602, 1325 and 3325, cn#485, 1880, Sold 3/1925 A&CM Rwy. R&D #6 and 303, SRR #603, 1326 and 3326, cn#486, 1880, Sold 1/1922 Consol. Salvage R&D #7 and 304, SRR #604, 1327 and 3327, cn#487, 1880, Scrapped Knoxville 9/1914 R&D #? and 305, SRR #605, Carolina & NW #200, cn#???, 1880, Sold 1914 Wyatt Lumber Ruston, LA No photos or diagrams. John Ryan Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Hi all, > > I received a question about some Southern Railway > steam locomotives that were originally built at > Altoona for the SRR subsidiary, the Richmond & Danville. > > They are all 4-6-0's built at Altoona- > cn# 423 blt 1879 to Richmond & Danville #3 and 300 > cn# 424 blt 1879 to R&D # 4 and 301 > cn# 485 blt 1880 to R&D # 5 and 302 > cn# 486 blt 1880 to R&D # 6 and 303 > cn# 487 blt 1880 to R&D #7 and 304 > cn# 488, blt 1880 to R&D # 8 and 305 > > Do you know anything about these locomotives? Diagrams > or class info would be greatly appreciated!! I don't know > if these were built by the Pennsy new for the R&D or if they > were bought secondhand from the Pennsy. I'm guessing from the > consecutive construction numbers that they were probably built > new for the R&D but don't know for sure... > > Thanks in advance! > > Rob > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 21:01:49 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR mill gon Gize, Well now we know the proper height from the rail and here is a simple fix that has worked for me. I remove the "post" used for the trucks to ride on and replace it with a plastic bolster from a "Jewel from the Junk box" sacrificed underframe, I have used the old Train Miniatures. Cement them into place with rubber cement and check the rail to fishbelly height and remove and adjust on a piece of sandpaper. It is not far off so sand only slightly. This has the benifit of giving your trucks a better ride and tracking and less leaning as I could never seem to get the darn post exactly straight... 3^) I hate that when it happens! Just a little note to keep in your hip pocket. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Butcher" Subject: [PRR] Z74dR "Quaker City" post correction Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:59:14 -0400 X-Apparently-From: ThreeButchers@cs.com List; While scanning the Spring 1988 Keystone, I found a short news article on the restoration of PRR Z74dR (PENNSYLVANIA #120). The trucks (being restored) for car #120 were PRR class 2F-P1. After careful study of older "Quaker City" photos, they too match the photo 2F-P1 being restored (while there may be other visual spotting differences, the 2E-P5 coil spring cup shape is different from the 2F-P1). Sorry for the mis-information... Brian ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 06:48:22 -0400 From: Dave McNeil Subject: [PRR] Flat Car decals Listers: I have or plan to buy several of the newer HW flatcars now available and need information on what decals you generally use to patch together sets for the following classes F29,31,35,37,FD1 for after 1954. I did the FD2-FW2 set already, but couldn't find some of the correct pieces. Thanks in advance, Dave McNeil PRRT&HS #1543 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Flat Car decals Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:34:27 -0400 A friend of mine did the flat car decals that Railworks shipped with the recent flat car releases. He said that he'd be willing to do a post 1954 set if I can get him some good photos of the flats in post 1954 paint... I don't think I have any later photos of the cars so if anyone on the list has good photos of the cars in later paint that can be used for creating a decal set, please let me know! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Dave > McNeil > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 6:48 AM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] Flat Car decals > > > Listers: > > I have or plan to buy several of the newer HW flatcars now available and > need information on what decals you generally use to patch together sets > for the following classes F29,31,35,37,FD1 for after 1954. I did the > FD2-FW2 set already, but couldn't find some of the correct pieces. > > Thanks in advance, > Dave McNeil > PRRT&HS #1543 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] K12 stock cars... Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:39:32 -0400 Hi all, Sometime in the 60's the Pennsy acquired 25 stock cars from the Erie Lackawanna. They became PRR class K12. An Erie-Lackawanna fan friend of mine asked if I had any info on the cars in their PRR life or any photos of the cars in PRR paint. I came up empty... On my PRR freight car web site I only have that the number series was 131300-131324. Does anyone have any more info on the K12's? How about some photos in PRR paint?! Thanks! Rob http://prr.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Shelb68man@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:20:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Delmarva Trip "Rail to the Fair" Hi Jim, sorry about the confusion-my brain went "color blind" on this one! Steve and Gregg are correct. The Blue Diamond is the correct name. The state of Delaware does not associate either the "Green Diamond or "Blue Diamond with this train. I used it because I believe it was the last regular passenger service down the state. C. Chandler ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:49:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Sam, I finished my Bowser T1 in 2000. I like the looks of the engine; to my mind the new Bowser boiler is nicer than the old Penn line casting (I've seen the old boiler at Timonium shows and elsewhere). One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part number 150007. It's sides are cut down like most (if not all) were by the late 40s. Doug --- Sam Vastano wrote, in part: > 2. In everybody's opinion which is the better > casting for a T1 the New > Bowser or the old Penn Line(compared to prototytpe) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Model Loco Detail Help. Lists, I am on the look out for a particular detail found on certain steam locos. I need the Train Name Sign for the "Jeffersonian". I am painting an HO Scale version of one of those 1940 Streamlined K4s's. The finishing touch will be mounting this detail part. This little detail was once available from Custom Railway Supply. They have long since closed shops. I am hoping someone here has one of these brass etchings in their spare parts drawers? If so please drop me an email. As always, Thank You......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] MP= Steam Loco name train sign Q? Lists, I am on the look out for a particular detail found on certain steam locos. I need the Train Name Sign for the "Jeffersonian". I am painting an HO Scale version of one of those 1940 Streamlined K4s's. The finishing touch will be mounting this detail part. This little detail was once available from Custom Railway Supply. They have long since closed shops. I am hoping someone here has one of these brass etchings in their spare parts drawers? If so please drop me an email. As always, Thank You......Gary "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Loco Detail Help. Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:17:16 -0400 You may want to try Northern Scale Models. IIRC, they offered the train names as well as the round and keystone number plates. Dennis Mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES (732) 271-0800 Voice http://www.onerrave.com (732) 271-0805 FAX 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Mittner To: ; ; Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: [PRR] Model Loco Detail Help. > Lists, > > I am on the look out for a particular detail found on certain steam > locos. I need the Train Name Sign for the "Jeffersonian". I am painting > an HO Scale version of one of those 1940 Streamlined K4s's. The > finishing touch will be mounting this detail part. This little detail > was once available from Custom Railway Supply. They have long since > closed shops. I am hoping someone here has one of these brass etchings > in their spare parts drawers? If so please drop me an email. > As always, Thank You......Gary > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] K12 stock cars... Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:07:53 +0100 Rob, List, There was a series of articles in the RMC in 1993 covering late Eastern Stock Cars, tne January 1993 issue has a photo of a K12 in PRR paint on page 106. regards Patrick Grace www.prr.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Schoenberg" To: "PRR-talk" Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 4:39 PM Subject: [PRR] K12 stock cars... > Hi all, > > Sometime in the 60's the Pennsy acquired 25 stock cars from the Erie > Lackawanna. They became PRR class K12. > An Erie-Lackawanna fan friend of mine asked if I had any info on the cars in > their PRR life or any photos of the cars in PRR paint. I came up empty... > On my PRR freight car web site I only have that the number series was > 131300-131324. Does anyone have any more info on the K12's? How about some > photos in PRR paint?! > > Thanks! > > Rob > http://prr.railfan.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "K-Hiyama" Subject: RE: [PRR] N8 Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:30:55 +0900 Lists, Here are the photos of how I did with IHC caboose. For the details, please look into the following photos. http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Toys/9237/caboose/n8.html Have a nice weekend. Kazuaki Hiyama kzhym@po.net-ibaraki.ne.jp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/04/01 Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:53:43 -0400 Dick Ross Wrote Subject: Dulux From: Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:17:00 EDT In a message dated 7/3/01 11:11:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << I fully expect this comment to spin off at least two email chains: one on the correct color of Delux, and the other on the correct width of the stripes ;-) >> How about the correct spelling of DULUX - I never knew what "DULUX Gold" really was until they bought out a local Cleveland paint company - Dulux is actually the brand name! Dick Ross, Cleveland I am now up to the July 4 PRR-Talk Digest, and am making progress. I just couldn't resist adding to the aforementioned message. In my archives, I found the "1953 Trade-Mark Dictionary" published by the National Paint, Varnish and Lacquer, Inc. They DULUX as a registered trade mark of E. I. duPont de Nemours & Co., Wilmington, Del. You win the cigar, Dick. DULUX is the name of a paint. DULUX Gold is the color of that paint used for painting certain areas of PRR equipment. For my next trick, I'll prove that DGLE is really black! Carl P. Izzo Industrial Paint Consultant PRRT&HS # 832 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:13:28 -0400 Bruce, Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the solid sides on the tender either whay did they stop making the brass sided tender?? Sam >From: Bruce F Smith >To: Doug Kisala >CC: Sam Vastano , PRR talk >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) > >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part > >Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a >step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" >locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her >builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind >loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the >humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real >life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they >consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 > >Happy Rails >Bruce > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:13:28 -0400 Bruce, Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the solid sides on the tender either whay did they stop making the brass sided tender?? Sam >From: Bruce F Smith >To: Doug Kisala >CC: Sam Vastano , PRR talk >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) > >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part > >Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a >step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" >locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her >builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind >loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the >humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real >life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they >consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 > >Happy Rails >Bruce > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:13:28 -0400 Bruce, Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the solid sides on the tender either whay did they stop making the brass sided tender?? Sam >From: Bruce F Smith >To: Doug Kisala >CC: Sam Vastano , PRR talk >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) > >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser kit > > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides of the > > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). I > > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high sided > > tender), but you could consider buying the old Bowser > > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, part > >Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a step forward, we take a >step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" >locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her >builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind >loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender is cast with the >humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet metal seen in real >life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for Trainstuff that they >consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is #5511 > >Happy Rails >Bruce > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 02:18:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 In a message dated 7/7/01 9:18:41 PM Central Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << the fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! >> Well, Bruce, there is 5542 in 1946 on page 92 of Pennsy Steam 1, but your point about the heavy casting rather than sheet metal only makes me kick myself again for not picking up an old Pennline or Bowser brass T1 tender being sold at the GMTS at DuPage a few years ago. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 02:18:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 In a message dated 7/7/01 9:18:41 PM Central Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << the fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! >> Well, Bruce, there is 5542 in 1946 on page 92 of Pennsy Steam 1, but your point about the heavy casting rather than sheet metal only makes me kick myself again for not picking up an old Pennline or Bowser brass T1 tender being sold at the GMTS at DuPage a few years ago. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 02:18:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 In a message dated 7/7/01 9:18:41 PM Central Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << the fully shrouded tender coupled to a "post porthole" locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, of T-1 #5511 in her builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings (again) a one of a kind loco! >> Well, Bruce, there is 5542 in 1946 on page 92 of Pennsy Steam 1, but your point about the heavy casting rather than sheet metal only makes me kick myself again for not picking up an old Pennline or Bowser brass T1 tender being sold at the GMTS at DuPage a few years ago. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 08:18:27 -0400 Doug, I have from an e-bay adventure a T1 tender that is like the brass sided tender only the sides are aluminum? Is it a Penn Line? The Mechanism is a single motor with shaft to the other wheel set. I would still like to make a rigid frame for it but I am not a machinist. Well life goes on, mabe someday. Thanks Again Sam >From: Doug Kisala >To: Sam Vastano >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:26:51 -0700 (PDT) > >Sam, > >The tender from the "old" T1 (brass sides) is still >sold by Bowser (part number 150007). > >Doug > >--- Sam Vastano wrote: > > Bruce, > > > > Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the > > solid sides on the tender > > either whay did they stop making the brass sided > > tender?? > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > >From: Bruce F Smith > > >To: Doug Kisala > > >CC: Sam Vastano , PRR talk > > > > >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 > > >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0500 (CDT) > > > > > >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Doug Kisala wrote: > > > > One caveat: Most T1 engines like the new Bowser > > kit > > > > (later front end detailing) had the rear sides > > of the > > > > tender cut down (like the old Bowser T1 tender). > > I > > > > lived with this discrepancy (I kept the high > > sided > > > > tender), but you could consider buying the old > > Bowser > > > > T1 tender. Bowser calls it a PRR T7 tender, > > part > > > > > >Indeed, as Bowser seems to do so often, we make a > > step forward, we take a > > >step back. The fully shrouded tender coupled to a > > "post porthole" > > >locomotive can actually be seen in one photograph, > > of T-1 #5511 in her > > >builder's portrait at Altoona...so Bowser brings > > (again) a one of a kind > > >loco! Doug also fails to mention, that the tender > > is cast with the > > >humungo solid sides rather then the graceful sheet > > metal seen in real > > >life. I'm hoping the 90F82 is a big enough hit for > > Trainstuff that they > > >consider a T-1 tender in resin...for now, my T-1 is > > #5511 > > > > > >Happy Rails > > >Bruce > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the > > message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:01:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sam Vastano wrote: > > Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the solid sides on the tender > either whay did they stop making the brass sided tender?? I don't have the precise date but it was 3 or 4 years ago that the "revised" kit was released. Production appeared to have stopped on the older kit some time (perhaps substantially) before the new one was released. Before y'all blow your life savings on the "old" tender, it was no gem either, that is unless you like exposed screw heads? Me? I'm still working (once in a while) on a proper chassis for my T-1. The screw holes in the boiler top are long gone, and I have obtained bearings that actually work. I'm working on springing now...could be a lifetime project . Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:13:51 -0400 Bruce, How did you get rid of the screws??? I have thought many long hours to try & get rid of them. Do you have any photos you could share with us? Or would that be a trade secret? Thanks Sam >From: Bruce F Smith >To: Sam Vastano >CC: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:01:30 -0500 (CDT) > >On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sam Vastano wrote: > > > > Thanks for the input. I am not a real fan of the solid sides on the >tender > > either whay did they stop making the brass sided tender?? > >I don't have the precise date but it was 3 or 4 years ago that the >"revised" kit was released. Production appeared to have stopped on the >older kit some time (perhaps substantially) before the new one was >released. Before y'all blow your life savings on the "old" tender, it >was no gem either, that is unless you like exposed screw heads? > >Me? I'm still working (once in a while) on a proper chassis for my T-1. >The screw holes in the boiler top are long gone, and I have obtained >bearings that actually work. I'm working on springing now...could be a >lifetime project . > > Happy Rails >Bruce > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 02:00:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] Md and Conemaugh Div ETTs available At http://prr.dementia.org/documents/ you can now find a 1935 Maryland Division ETT and a 1937 Conemaugh Division ETT (since I promised Dave Wartell I'd push the Md Div one to the top of the to be scanned pile it was actually done before the Conemaugh one;-) Each is 11mb. A (large, over 250 pages and about 25mb) 1967 Western Region ETT will follow tomorrow after I figure out why my PDF bookmarks aren't nesting the way I want them to, and I have a 1958 New York Region ETT on the scanner now. About a dozen more ETTs and at least 4 track charts are in the backlog behind these. If you have problems, need more information, or anything of that nature, please send email direct to shadow@dementia.org -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:36:43 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Bowser H-21a's in N Scale From: Jerry Britton Lee English has notified me that N scale H-21a's are now in the design stage. This project is a "go"!!! It will likely be several months until part numbers/paint schemes for ordering are available, as HO scale GLa hoppers are due first. I'm guessing that we are looking at delivery late in 2001/early 2002. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andrew harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 12:18:10 -0400 >I have from an e-bay adventure a T1 tender that is like the brass >sided>tender only the sides are aluminum? Is it a Penn Line? ____________________________________________________________________ Yes. When I bought my first Penn Line T1 kit in around 1960, the tender sides were sheet aluminum. Andrew h. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:24:56 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 At 10:13 PM -0400 7/8/01, Sam Vastano wrote: >Bruce, > >How did you get rid of the screws??? I have thought many long hours to try >& get rid of them. Do you have any photos you could share with us? Or >would that be a trade secret? My approach is as follows. I wanted to "rigidize" the T-1 for a more prototypical appearance. The chassis I am working on is a classic sheet brass approach, which will support the locomotive under the firebox and at the pilot. Each set of drivers is independently powered through a can motor and an NWSL gearbox, and each motor will have its own DCC decoder (one with sound). I filled the holes in the top of the boiler with body putty (bondo will do!) and sanded them down. I do need to patch the filling slightly as painting showed an imperfection or two...Sorry, no pictures yet. Some additional detailign will be possible with the new chassis: -brake shoes -possibly brake rigging -springs -revised valve gear hangers etc... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:30:02 -0400 From: "David J. Wartell" Subject: Re: [PRR] Md and Conemaugh Div ETTs available Thanks Derrick. I will probably download it at work as here at home it says it will take about 1.5 hours to download. Dave At 2:00 AM -0400 7/9/01, Derrick J Brashear wrote: >At http://prr.dementia.org/documents/ you can now find >a 1935 Maryland Division ETT and a 1937 Conemaugh Division ETT (since I >promised Dave Wartell I'd push the Md Div one to the top of the to be >scanned pile it was actually done before the Conemaugh one;-) > >Each is 11mb. > >A (large, over 250 pages and about 25mb) 1967 Western Region ETT will >follow tomorrow after I figure out why my PDF bookmarks aren't nesting the >way I want them to, and I have a 1958 New York Region ETT on the scanner >now. About a dozen more ETTs and at least 4 track charts are in the >backlog behind these. > >If you have problems, need more information, or anything of that nature, >please send email direct to shadow@dementia.org > >-D > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". Dave Wartell djwartel@ix.netcom.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:16:47 -0400 Hopefully someone there will have this information. I am researching the small yard at Warren Pa. I need to know what motive power was assigned as switching power there in the 50's. 1957 to be exact. Thanks Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 02:07:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] FP 7 with a broken nose...3^) Hey Gize, At one point Bill Volkmer sometime back supplied with the date and Location of the wreck that the PRR FP 7 #4359 was involved in (which caused it's nose to be replaced). Can anyone refresh myself and Dan Cupper as we are very interested in that information. If not, can someone update me with Bill Volkmer's email address my old address for him, mine bounces. I still have the photo Bill sent me but I have forgotten the date and location. Excuse my intrusion... Thanks Again Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:59:28 -0400 Bruce, Sounds Awsome! Let us know of your progress. I still want pictures. What I would give to see a real T1 in person!! I was born 30 years too late! Sam >From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." >To: "Sam Vastano" >CC: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 >Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:24:56 -0500 > >At 10:13 PM -0400 7/8/01, Sam Vastano wrote: > >Bruce, > > > >How did you get rid of the screws??? I have thought many long hours to >try > >& get rid of them. Do you have any photos you could share with us? Or > >would that be a trade secret? > >My approach is as follows. I wanted to "rigidize" the T-1 for a more >prototypical appearance. The chassis I am working on is a classic sheet >brass approach, which will support the locomotive under the firebox and at >the pilot. Each set of drivers is independently powered through a can >motor and an NWSL gearbox, and each motor will have its own DCC decoder >(one with sound). I filled the holes in the top of the boiler with body >putty (bondo will do!) and sanded them down. I do need to patch the >filling slightly as painting showed an imperfection or two...Sorry, no >pictures yet. > >Some additional detailign will be possible with the new chassis: >-brake shoes >-possibly brake rigging >-springs >-revised valve gear hangers >etc... > >Happy Rails >Bruce > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > >"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin >Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:11:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] New vs old Bowser T1 In a message dated 7/10/01 7:06:43 AM Central Daylight Time, svastano@hotmail.com writes: << What I would give to see a real T1 in person!! I was born 30 years too late! >> I would have loved to see one run, too. As a child I was fortunate enough to see one simmering at the bumpers in Chicago Union Station. My mother had taken me to St. Louis and back on the Alton (GM&O) and the T1 had just arrived before we did. My only other Pennsy steamer I saw was a J1 on the Panhandle near Beverly Junction. I have just received my T1 helix humper kit from Alliance (hurray!) so my T1 project is next after I paint my NWSL-remotored I1 and (finally) install the Soundtraxx decoder in my M1. Been doing diesels--squeezed a decoder into my Kato NW2, antennaed and lift-ringed my Genesis F7's and the tuscan P2K E7's I had lying around. Ran the latter two at our club open house Sunday. Apologies to the list for the ramble, but I am feeling proud of my sudden spurt of activity after not accomplishing much for about six months. Funny---shouldn't I get more modeling done in the winter? Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:27:38 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRR Virtual Layout Update From: Jerry Britton John Cooper's Philadelphia Terminal has been added to the PRR Virtual Layout. Dave Johnson's Panhandle Division has been plotted on a newly acquired map of the Panhandle Division. See... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/virtual_prr/ ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:45:38 -0400 Terry thanks for the reply, but are you sure you are correct? The grade over Keating summit is on the line coming out of Renovo heading to Buffalo it seems strange to me that RS3's would be stationed in Warren, 66 miles from Renovo for that grade. Or did you mean that RS3's were used in Warren AND on the grade at Keating Summit. Not that the Warren RS3's were used on the grade. Thanks Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "W. Terry Stuart" To: "Brian J Carlson" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Moive power assignment P&E > Brian Carlson inquired about PRR motive power... > > >I am researching the > >small yard at Warren Pa. I need to know what motive power was assigned as > >switching power there in the 50's. 1957 to be exact. Thanks > >Brian J Carlson > >Cheektowaga NY > > > > > I don't know about 1957. I spent much time in Warren, PA in 1962-63. At > that time, PRR Alco RS-3's were there. They were also used on the mainline > freights and several were based as helpers for the grade between Emporium, > PA and Keating Summit. > > Terry Stuart > The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B > 62 Beaver Street > Fallston, PA 15066 > www.forcomm.net/flagstop > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 04:33:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Web site for Alliance Locomotive Products Hello list, Alliance emailed me to tell me that my order was on it's way. They now have a web site (very much under construction, but a good start). Here's the URL: http://www.alliancelink.com/alp/ It looks like I will be able to have flywheels in all my Bowser steamers soon (this half and half thing is bugging me a bit). Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:15:06 -0400 Subject: [PRR] THE NORTHERN EXPRESS From: Jerry Britton An announcement from our friends at the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS... WATAUGA & HARRISBURG CHAPTERS OF THE NATIONAL RAILWAY HISTORICAL SOCIETY PROUDLY OFFER COACH SERVICE ON THE NORTHERN EXPRESS AUGUST 19, 20, 21 2001 THE WATAUGA & HARRISBURG CHAPTERS OF THE NATIONAL RAILWAY HISTORICAL SOCIETY ARE PROUD TO ANNOUNCE COACH SERVICE ON THE NORTHERN EXPRESS DEPARTING THE HARRISBURG, PA, AMTRAK STATION ON SUNDAY, AUGUST 19 RETURNING TUESDAY, AUGUST 21. POWERED BY JUNIATA TERMINAL PRR E8A¹s, THIS PRIVATE CAR TRAIN, OPERATED BY AMTRAK, WILL HAVE ONE WATAUGA CHAPTER NRHS COACH IN ADDITION TO THE PRIVATE CARS. SEATING IS EXTREMELY LIMITED. THE NORTHERN EXPRESS WILL TRAVERSE MANY RARE MILEAGE FREIGHT ONLY LINES THROUGHOUT PENNSYLVANIA OVER THE 3 DAYS ON THE FOLLOWING SCHEDULE: Sunday, August 19: depart Harrisburg, PA at 6:00 am to Erie, PA arriving at 7:00 pm Via the Norfolk Southern Buffalo line to Emporium, and the Allegheny & Eastern Railroad from Emporium to Erie. This is all ex PRR trackage. Arrival in Erie will be in time for dinner. Hotel arrangements can be made for the Avalon Hotel in Erie at 814-874-1000 through Hospitality Network, Maureen Balsiger. Monday, August 20: depart Erie, PA at 6:00 am traveling over CSX to Conneaut, OH and then Bessemer & Lake Erie to N. Bessemer. At N. Bessemer, the Union Railroad will operate the train into Duquesne, reverse directions and go back to N. Bessemer, where the B&LE again takes over and moves the train to Butler, where it is interchanged to the Buffalo & Pittsburgh and spends the night. Motel arrangements for Butler, PA can be made by contacting the Days¹ Inn at 724-287-6761. Tuesday, August 21: depart Butler, PA at 6:00 am for Harrisburg over the B&P to Dubois, PA, where our train will switch to the ex-PRR Lowgrade line to Driftwood, PA. At Driftwood, the train will rejoin Norfolk Southern¹s Buffalo Line, arriving in Harrisburg at approximately 7:00 pm. TICKETS: COACH TICKETS ARE AVAILABLE FOR THIS TRAIN AT A PRICE OF $ 675.00 PER PERSON, WHICH INCLUDES THE TRAIN TRIP, A BOX LUNCH EACH DAY AND TWO ADDITIONAL DRINKS PER RIDER. NO PASSENGER WILL BE ALLOWED TO STAY ON THE TRAIN OVERNIGHT. MOTEL ACCOMODATIONS ARE THE RESPONSIBILTY OF EACH RIDER. SEATING IS EXTREMELY LIMITED !! . TICKETS CAN BE ORDERED THROUGH THE HARRISBURG CHAPTER NRHS USING THE FORM PROVIDED. THE NORTHERN EXPRESS TICKET ORDER FORM CHECK OR MONEY ORDER ONLY PAYABLE TO : HARRISBURG/WATAUGA NRHS TRIP MAIL TO: HARRISBURG CHAPTER NRHS TRIP COMMITTEE 637 WALNUT STREET HARRISBURG, PA 17101-1924 # OF TICKETS ____ X $ 675.00 PER PERSON = $ ______ NAME ______________________________ ADDRESS ___________________________ CITY, STATE , ZIP__________________________________ PHONE # ________________________ EMAIL ADDRESS: ___________________________ TICKETS WILL BE MAILED TO YOU. THE DEADLINE FOR TICKETS IS AUGUST 3, 2001. BOARDING TIME AT HARRISBURG IS 5:30 AM TO 5:50 AM ON SUNDAY, AUGUST 19, 2001. SEATS ARE EXTREMELY LIMITED. THE HARRISBURG CHAPTER, NRHS, GIVES NOTICE THAT IN THE OPERATION OF THIS AMTRAK CHARTER EXCURSION, ALL ARRANGEMENTS MADE BY THE HARRISBURG CHAPTER, NRHS, ARE SOLELY AS AGENT FOR THE TOURIST, AND AS SUCH HOLD ITSELF FREE OF ALL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY LOSS, DAMAGE, TO THE PERSONS OR PROPERTY OF THE TOURIST ARISING FROM ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER. NO SMOKING IS ALLOWED ON THE COACH, AND ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES ARE PROHIBITED. BOX LUNCH IS INCLUDED ALL 3 DAYS. HOTEL ARRANGEMENTS IN HARRISBURG PA CAN BE MADE THROUGH THE HOLIDAY INN AT 717-234-5021 WHICH OFFERS FREE SHUTTLES TO THE AMTRAK STATION IN HARRISBURG. BOARDING TIME IS 5:30 AM SUNDAY MORNING ! QUESTIONS REGARDING THE TRIP ?? HARRISBURG NRHS 717-232-6221 OR EMAIL: eyer@epix.net or seigford@cs.com DEADLINE FOR TICKETS TO BE ORDERED IS AUGUST 3, 2001. IN THE EVENT, THAT SUFFICIENT COACH TICKETS ARE NOT SOLD PRIOR TO AUGUST 3, 2001, THE COACH SERVICE ON THE NORTHERN EXPRESS MAY BE CANCELLED, AND YOUR MONEY WILL BE REFUNDED. NO REFUNDS WILL BE ISSUED IF THE COACH SERVICE IS OPERATED ON THE NORTHERN EXPRESS AS LISTED ABOVE. WATAUGA & HARRISBURG CHAPTERS, NRHS, ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY CHANGE IN THE ITINERARY OR SCHEDULE. NO PASSENGER WILL BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN ON THE TRAIN OVERNIGHT. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] THE NORTHERN EXPRESS Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:09:55 -0400 Jerry, Would you happen to know where the train would be stopping in Butler I would like to take a ride out there on Monday eve to get some photos. Thanks Sam >From: Jerry Britton >To: PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: [PRR] THE NORTHERN EXPRESS >Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:15:06 -0400 > >An announcement from our friends at the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS... > >WATAUGA & HARRISBURG CHAPTERS >OF THE NATIONAL RAILWAY HISTORICAL SOCIETY >PROUDLY OFFER COACH SERVICE ON >THE NORTHERN EXPRESS > >AUGUST 19, 20, 21 2001 > >THE WATAUGA & HARRISBURG CHAPTERS OF THE NATIONAL RAILWAY >HISTORICAL SOCIETY ARE PROUD TO ANNOUNCE COACH SERVICE ON >THE NORTHERN EXPRESS DEPARTING THE HARRISBURG, PA, AMTRAK >STATION ON SUNDAY, AUGUST 19 RETURNING TUESDAY, AUGUST 21. >POWERED BY JUNIATA TERMINAL PRR E8A¹s, THIS PRIVATE CAR TRAIN, OPERATED BY >AMTRAK, WILL HAVE ONE WATAUGA CHAPTER NRHS COACH IN ADDITION TO THE PRIVATE >CARS. SEATING IS EXTREMELY LIMITED. >THE NORTHERN EXPRESS WILL TRAVERSE MANY RARE MILEAGE FREIGHT >ONLY LINES THROUGHOUT PENNSYLVANIA OVER THE 3 DAYS ON THE >FOLLOWING SCHEDULE: > >Sunday, August 19: depart Harrisburg, PA at 6:00 am to Erie, PA arriving at >7:00 pm >Via the Norfolk Southern Buffalo line to Emporium, and the Allegheny & >Eastern Railroad from Emporium to Erie. This is all ex PRR trackage. >Arrival >in Erie will be in time for dinner. Hotel arrangements can be made for the >Avalon Hotel in Erie at >814-874-1000 through Hospitality Network, Maureen Balsiger. > >Monday, August 20: depart Erie, PA at 6:00 am traveling over CSX to >Conneaut, OH and then >Bessemer & Lake Erie to N. Bessemer. At N. Bessemer, the Union Railroad >will >operate the train into Duquesne, reverse directions and go back to N. >Bessemer, where the B&LE again takes over and moves the train to Butler, >where it is interchanged to the Buffalo & Pittsburgh and spends the night. >Motel arrangements for Butler, PA can be made by contacting the Days¹ Inn >at >724-287-6761. > >Tuesday, August 21: depart Butler, PA at 6:00 am for Harrisburg over the >B&P >to Dubois, PA, where our train will switch to the ex-PRR Lowgrade line >to >Driftwood, PA. At Driftwood, the train will rejoin Norfolk Southern¹s >Buffalo Line, arriving in Harrisburg at approximately 7:00 pm. > >TICKETS: COACH TICKETS ARE AVAILABLE FOR THIS TRAIN AT A PRICE >OF $ 675.00 PER PERSON, WHICH INCLUDES THE TRAIN TRIP, >A BOX LUNCH EACH DAY AND TWO ADDITIONAL DRINKS PER RIDER. >NO PASSENGER WILL BE ALLOWED TO STAY ON THE TRAIN >OVERNIGHT. MOTEL ACCOMODATIONS ARE THE RESPONSIBILTY >OF EACH RIDER. SEATING IS EXTREMELY LIMITED !! >. >TICKETS CAN BE ORDERED THROUGH THE HARRISBURG CHAPTER NRHS USING THE FORM >PROVIDED. > >THE NORTHERN EXPRESS TICKET ORDER FORM >CHECK OR MONEY ORDER ONLY >PAYABLE TO : HARRISBURG/WATAUGA NRHS TRIP > >MAIL TO: HARRISBURG CHAPTER NRHS >TRIP COMMITTEE >637 WALNUT STREET >HARRISBURG, PA 17101-1924 > ># OF TICKETS ____ X $ 675.00 PER PERSON = $ ______ >NAME ______________________________ >ADDRESS ___________________________ >CITY, STATE , ZIP__________________________________ >PHONE # ________________________ EMAIL ADDRESS: ___________________________ > >TICKETS WILL BE MAILED TO YOU. THE DEADLINE FOR TICKETS IS >AUGUST 3, 2001. BOARDING TIME AT HARRISBURG IS 5:30 AM TO 5:50 AM >ON SUNDAY, AUGUST 19, 2001. SEATS ARE EXTREMELY LIMITED. >THE HARRISBURG CHAPTER, NRHS, GIVES NOTICE THAT IN THE OPERATION >OF THIS AMTRAK CHARTER EXCURSION, ALL ARRANGEMENTS MADE BY THE >HARRISBURG CHAPTER, NRHS, ARE SOLELY AS AGENT FOR THE TOURIST, AND >AS SUCH HOLD ITSELF FREE OF ALL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY LOSS, DAMAGE, >TO THE PERSONS OR PROPERTY OF THE TOURIST ARISING FROM ANY CAUSE >WHATSOEVER. NO SMOKING IS ALLOWED ON THE COACH, AND ALCOHOLIC >BEVERAGES ARE PROHIBITED. BOX LUNCH IS INCLUDED ALL 3 DAYS. >HOTEL ARRANGEMENTS IN HARRISBURG PA CAN BE MADE THROUGH THE >HOLIDAY INN AT 717-234-5021 WHICH OFFERS FREE SHUTTLES TO THE AMTRAK >STATION IN HARRISBURG. BOARDING TIME IS 5:30 AM SUNDAY MORNING ! >QUESTIONS REGARDING THE TRIP ?? HARRISBURG NRHS 717-232-6221 >OR EMAIL: eyer@epix.net or seigford@cs.com > >DEADLINE FOR TICKETS TO BE ORDERED IS AUGUST 3, 2001. IN THE EVENT, THAT >SUFFICIENT COACH TICKETS ARE NOT SOLD PRIOR TO AUGUST 3, 2001, >THE COACH SERVICE ON THE NORTHERN EXPRESS MAY BE CANCELLED, >AND YOUR MONEY WILL BE REFUNDED. NO REFUNDS WILL BE ISSUED IF THE >COACH SERVICE IS OPERATED ON THE NORTHERN EXPRESS AS LISTED ABOVE. >WATAUGA & HARRISBURG CHAPTERS, NRHS, ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY >CHANGE IN THE ITINERARY OR SCHEDULE. NO PASSENGER WILL BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN >ON THE TRAIN OVERNIGHT. > > >----------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com >Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com >For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net >Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:28:30 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Wilmington Book Howdy y'all, While I was up in Mecca a few weeks ago, I chanced to stop in at Mitchell's Hobby Shop, in Wilmington DE (and got lunch at the Char Pit...) and they had a book on display entitled "Images of America: Wilmington's Waterfront" by Priscilla Thompson and Sally O'Byrne ($18.99). While the book is a little short on text, it is full of images from the waterfront including a few of the Wilmington station. In particular, one ariel view caught my eye as it indicated that the Walnut Street Bridge (on the East side of the station) was built in the 1950s. An earlier photo (1939) indicates that Walnut street did not have an underpass under the tracks until the bridge was built. There was (and still is) a small underpass at that end of the station, that allowed access to the rear and to the PRR offcie building next door. Verry interesting stuff in there about the shipbuilding industry, and a great shot of a non-PRR roundhouse (B&O or READING?), squashed between the PRR passenger main and the river just west of the station. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:09:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Will Subject: [PRR] (rshsdepot) Bennings Yard office fire (fwd) FYI Will Semanchuk-Enser General Manager alcoman@bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - The Blue Moon Internet Corp. V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network alcoman.Railfan.net - Homepage ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:29:34 -0400 From: "paul w. woodring" Reply-To: totalcsx@lists.railfan.net To: totalcsx@lists.railfan.net Subject: (totalcsx) Bennings Yard office fire Since I haven't seen this posted here yet I'm going to assume that it is not common knowledge outside of CSX that the Benning Road (DC) yard office was gutted by fire on July 4. It was definitely arson (set in five different places in the building) and they are now operating the yard from construction trailers. Having heard that long term plans called for tearing the building down anyway and relocating it down towards the old engine servicing area to allow the Alexandria Extention to be moved over to directly flow both tracks into the Landover Line in the yard for more efficient moves, I guess this marks the end for another PRR era structure. Paul _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:48:33 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: [PRR] PRR in Trains magazine The August, 2001 issue of Trains magazine has 3 articles of interest to PRR fans. The first is coverage of the PRRT&HS tribute to Gil Reid that took place during the June Pennsy Days at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg. The second is a Pennsy Photo Section with really great B&W shots of the PRR in action while the third is an article by Dan Cupper covering the Grif Teller display on the second floor of the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. Bill Morlitz, PRRT&HS Website Superintendent ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:09:39 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Trains magazine Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 7/12/01 6:48 AM, prrbill (prrbill@Op.Net) wrote: > > > The August, 2001 issue of Trains magazine has 3 articles of interest to > > PRR fans. The first is coverage of the PRRT&HS tribute to Gil Reid that > > took place during the June Pennsy Days at the Railroad Museum of > > Pennsylvania in Strasburg. > > The above was done at the banquet at the Annual Meeting of the PRRT&HS in > Camp Hill, Pa., in May. (I wasn't at Pennsy Days, perhaps it was done again, > there? I haven't seen the magazine to look at the photos.) I could be wrong as to the time/place of the honor. I just saw an advanced copy of Trains yesterday and wrote this bit of PR from memory. Bill > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:13:04 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Trains magazine JONS6755@aol.com wrote: > > Bill > I would think "The Super" of the PRRT&HS Website would > have his facts together, especially regarding "Society Doings". > But then again. . . I've been wrong before! Not to worry, Jon. I've been wrong so many times before it's a pleasure when I get things right. This is, evidently, not one of the correct times. Bill > The event in honor of Gil Reid was held by The Society itself. . . > and it was held at our annual meeting May 3rd thru the 6th in > Harrisburg, PA. Not at Pennsy Days at The Museum in > Strasburg. > > Jon Sbordone > PRRT&HS #3079 > FRM of PA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:11:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Trains magazine Bill I would think "The Super" of the PRRT&HS Website would have his facts together, especially regarding "Society Doings". But then again. . . I've been wrong before! The event in honor of Gil Reid was held by The Society itself. . . and it was held at our annual meeting May 3rd thru the 6th in Harrisburg, PA. Not at Pennsy Days at The Museum in Strasburg. Jon Sbordone PRRT&HS #3079 FRM of PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: [PRR] Athearn/Genesis and Intermountain F7 Sound Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:32:47 -0500 Hi folks--A while back I sent out-- >Has anyone installed Soundtraxx in either the IM or Genesis F-7's yet? If >so, how did it turn out? Lessons learned? It looks to me like the >DSD-AT100LC is the choice. And it appears the >Panasonic/Soundtraxx/TTX >oval speaker will fit with just a little dremel work. >Thanks for your help! I didn't actually get much help, but I did get a request to post a report after I finished. Well, here it is. Some of you will get this more than once because you are on multiple lists, too; sorry about that, but I wanted to get this to a wide audience. I have just completed installing Soundtraxx DSD-ATL100LC decoders in an Athearn/Genesis (A/G) F7 ABA set and in an ABBA set from Intermountain for a friend. Decoders in all units. The A/G set was factory painted in PRR, but still required the addition of PRR unique details. The IM units were undec and had to be built up, detailed, painted and decaled. And all had to be weathered to show mid-50's use. Both A/G and IM have provided us with beautiful products to serve as a basis for prototypical models. Although they are both F7's, they fortunately chose to make models of different phases. Without wanting to start a "phase thread", it suffices to say that the differences in the phase details would be very difficult for the average modeler to change. Having both models available to us is a very good thing. Sound Installation---The models' drive systems are very similar in design. The DSD-ATL100LC simply replaces the factory circuit board. I found it simpler--and probably more reliable--to solder the wires rather than use the original plastic clips. We elected to use the TTX Oval Speaker because of past excellent results; however, the 1.1 inch round speaker would probably fit. Although both manufacturers left considerable space at the rear of the frames to accommodate a speaker, a small amount of frame material was removed by Dremel tool from both brands to accommodate our chosen speaker. Pieces of .040 sheet styrene were cut to fit to construct an enclosure for the bottom of the speaker. Silicone sealer was used as the adhesive to insure there were no gaps. The results were spectacular. As I completed the installation in each unit, it was individually tested with good, adequate, satisfactory engine sounds. However, when I put the ABA set on the track together, a whole new dimension was achieved. And the ABBA set was stunning! Soundtraxx is to be commended for developing the LC line of decoders--they work good and enable some installations that otherwise would be extremely difficult. Lights--My friend prefers clear class lights on the lead unit and red class lights on the rear A. He also desires the lead unit to have an in-cab light to keep the crew on their toes. Since the DSD-ATL100LC only provides front and rear headlight functions, the headlight, class lights, and cab light all were powered together from the headlight function. On both A/G A's I managed to damage the factory headlight bulb when removing the shells. And I had been forewarned and was prepared, or so I thought. This was easily replaced with a Miniatronics 1.5 v 15 ma clear bulb powered thru a 790 ohm resistor. The reflector/headlight unit on theA/G units is a great idea. For the class lights, holes were drilled at the front of the small numberboards, then the same type clear bulbs were secured with Goo in each position. These were powered thru a 680 ohm resister. The red class lights for the trailing A's were powered from the rear headlight function. Thus, if desired, when the unit was operating in reverse (its normal direction in the lashup), the lights could be turned on by turning on the headlight function. We used two Miniatronics 1.5 v 30 ma bulbs thru a 330 ohm resistor. The cablight used a Miniatronics 12 v 30 ma bulb. >From the factory the IM drive incorpoates a small circuit board mounted vertically in the nose to power four 12 v bulbs. Railroad Model Craftsmen recently tested this drive system and found that this light array drew 131 ma, way too much for the Soundtraxx decoder to handle. And we were not happy with the amount of light making its way to the class lights above the large numberboards. The two lights for the numberboards/class lights were removed, and the Dremel was brought out again to remove portions of the metal protrusion that held these bulbs in the nose. New 1.5 v 15 ma clear bulbs and 1.5 v 30 ma red bulbs were secured in place in the shell as on the A/G units. IM provides a lower headlight bulb on all their drives, whether the body shell has a lower light or not. For the lead unit's cab light, I simply removed the lower bulb, then reinstalled it on the rear face of the circuit board. Leads from the circuit board were wired directly to the decoder's headlight function. Notes on the Details--On the IM units we used .015 wire for the handrails, replacing the overly thick factory items. All grabs on both brands were also .015 wire. It had been planned to use American Limited diaphrams on each unit; after all, that is what we have been doing with Stewart F's for years, right? With KD#5 couplers installed, both A/G and IM units are separated by a nominal 3 feet, measured at the end of the side, but there isn't enough room for a diaphram on the end of each unit. With Stewart F's and using Kadee's Close Coupling kit, everything worked perfectly, so what was going on? A little research revealed that the rear door structure on the Stewart units does not protrude as much as that on both the A/G and IM units, thus affording more room for diaphrams. Based on the data I have available, A/G and IM seem to be more prototypical. Maybe we can get American Limited to come out with a slimmer, leaner model. Paint--No I do not want to start a "DGLE thread" here, just tell what I did. For the factory painted PRR A/G units it was necessary to match the factory's paint on the added details. I had been anxiously looking for an opportunity to try Greg Martin's formula (see http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/beautiful/819/PRR_Tips/Tips1.htm ). However, I found it too dark, although not by much. I found that a better match was Scalecoat II Brunswick Green. In fact I liked it so much that I used it to paint the IM units. Gorgeous and you can't hardly see any green at all, but still not quite as dark as Greg's mix. Off the Wall Comments--While working on these units I had nearby an undec Stewart late Phase I shell--with grills with horizontal slits cast in plastic as part of the shell. I have decided that I like Stewart's rendition better than A/G and IM with their add on metal grills. The grills themselves are gorgeous, but when attached they just don't stand off the shell quite enough. Next to the Stewart shell it is very obvious. And there is always some place to be found where the attached grill doesn't quite stay as close to the shell as it should. With the vertical slit Farr type grill, the difference would be non-existent because they attach more closely to the body. For me the Stewart gets the nod for the horizontal style grills, even though we have to remove parting lines and in spite of the rear door structure deficiency cited above. The Bottom Line-- Will somebody puleeeeeeze bring out a decent FP7?????? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] PRR in Tallahassee Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:56:24 -0400 Lists: I will be showing my N scale Pennsy layout at the Big Bend Model Railroad Show and Sale at the Elks Club, 276 N. Magnolia, Tallahassee, FL on Saturday, July 21, from 10AM to 5PM, EDT. I usually run only Diesels at a show but have some detailed PRR locos and some interesting freight cars. If any of you are in the area please stop by and we can share our experiences with "The Standard Railroad of the World". Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (David Hopson) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Need Photos of the Tunnel Blowers at Gallitzin. Hello List, Anyone out there have any close up photos of the Tunnel Blowers or could point me in the right direction of some published photos. I'm working on H.O. Altoona to Cresson layout and now I'm at that point of the mainline. I need the detail of the frame work on the blower on track 3. This blower is open at the top. The blower on track 4 has a closed "crown". Also close up pics of the small building between the blowers would help too. Thanks, Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 09:21:06 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Need Photos of the Tunnel Blowers at Gallitzin. Dave. I think there were pix of the tunnel blower installation in an old Model RR magazine - ca. 1940's. I may have it if you don't. Will take a look. I know there were no framework details. Steve Bartlett Subject: Need Photos of the Tunnel Blowers at Gallitzin. From: "David Hopson" Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Hello List, Anyone out there have any close up photos of the Tunnel Blowers or could point me in the right direction of some published photos. I'm working on H.O. Altoona to Cresson layout and now I'm at that point of the mainline. I need the detail of the frame work on the blower on track 3. This blower is open at the top. The blower on track 4 has a closed "crown". Also close up pics of the small building between the blowers would help too. Thanks, Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Date: Wed, 18 Jul 101 18:36:45 -0400 (EDT) lmatt scribit: > > Dear Carl: > > I have a red roofing paint, that is rust resistant, that I used to paint my > old raised rib barn roof. It is a dead ringer for the tuscan red used on > equipment at the museum in Strasburg, both under the indoor lights and > outside. Now if I can just figure out the pattern for gold cat whiskers on > the raised rib roof, I'll be in PRR heaven. Hey, Lew, ... mind cluing the rest of us in? :-) -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] G30 and G30a Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 21:23:02 -0400 I have recently purchased one of the Tichy "War Emergency Gons" PRR class G30. I was hoping that the car would have the sides separate from the steel structural members, (similar to the Red Caboose gon), however the body is one piece. I was going to replace the wood sides with styrene to model a rebuilt G30a. Since the sides are one piece I need to locate a photo of the wood sided cars in service in the late 50's. A photo of one in work service would also work but I imagine none were in work service yet. I have looked up the stats from the car on Robs site so I know some were still wood sided cars in 1957. Any help for photo's would be appreciated. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] PRR I1 decapod plans Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:15:39 -0400 Lists: I have just acquired a Minitrix decapod at a bargain price on eBay. Those familiar with this engine know about the front end problems. I am looking for plans of the I1 and I find they were published in the February 1953 MR and in MR's MR Cyclopedia, Volume 1. Unfortunately, I have neither. I have a MT pilot that is suitable, and have the front air tanks off an HO Penn Line decapod, so I can figure out how to do the front end, but would like to at least have a side elevation to work from to get proportions correct. Can anyone help me with plans? My e-mail is mahlkov@gtcom.net Thanks. Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:13:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR I1 decapod plans From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Gregg I don't have plans, but I have a lot of B/W photos of 4483's pilot and can send the negatives if you want to make prints of them, if that will help. I plan on making a pilgrimage to Hamburg to visit 4483 again in about 3 weeks to make some more measurements. If there is anything in particular you need, let me know. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- >From: "Gregg Mahlkov" >To: , >Subject: [PRR] PRR I1 decapod plans >Date: Sat, 14 Jul, 2001, 22:15 > > Lists: > > I have just acquired a Minitrix decapod at a bargain price on eBay. Those > familiar with this engine know about the front end problems. I am looking > for plans of the I1 and I find they were published in the February 1953 MR > and in MR's MR Cyclopedia, Volume 1. Unfortunately, I have neither. I have a > MT pilot that is suitable, and have the front air tanks off an HO Penn Line > decapod, so I can figure out how to do the front end, but would like to at > least have a side elevation to work from to get proportions correct. > > Can anyone help me with plans? My e-mail is mahlkov@gtcom.net > > Thanks. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 18:42:18 EDT From: JSZARMACH@aol.com Subject: [PRR] GG1 4909 Homepage For anyone who might be interested, I created a homepage dedicated to GG1 4909. I recently purchased the 4909 from the Leatherstocking Railway Museum and hope to bring it to Connecticut for display (most likely at the Danbury Railroad Museum). The webpage has some history of the 4909 and will have photos of the re-painting etc. The webpage is at: http://www.PJandCompany.com/GG1 Joe ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:08:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 4909 Homepage Joe Just cam from you web site for 4909. Nice job, you can bet I'll be a frequent visiter to watch the progress. Thanks for your efforts in saving an important piece of PRR History. And for sharing you efforts with us via your website. Best of Luck! Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Color Question. Lists, No this isn't one of those DGLE DGLP or DGLF etc color questions. This might be a little harder, or, maybe not. Certain Steam Locos assigned to Blue Ribbon Passenger Trains had a Cast Brass(?) Badge with the name of the train attached to the front of the Loco. ie: The Broadway Limited, The Admiral, The Jefforsonian etc. On a K4s it was just below the Keystone. Anyone know for sure what color was this plate painted? Toluidine Red with Gold Leaf or Black with Gold Leaf? I have seen plenty of Plates but never a Train Name Plate that survived in any collection. As always, Thank you, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Color Question. Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:08:23 -0400 Gary: If I am not mistaken, Howard Fogg painted a K4s with one of those nameplates Detroit Arrow I think) in a painting used by Leanin' Tree Ranch on one of its Christmas cards. I do not have the card, but I wonder how Howard Fogg painted it and what color he used. He usually researched his subjects thoroughly. Someone on the list may have used these one year and still have one around Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: ; Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:33 PM Subject: [PRR] Color Question. > Lists, > > No this isn't one of those DGLE DGLP or DGLF etc color questions. > This might be a little harder, or, maybe not. Certain Steam Locos > assigned to Blue Ribbon Passenger Trains had a Cast Brass(?) Badge with > the name of the train attached to the front of the Loco. ie: The > Broadway Limited, The Admiral, The Jefforsonian etc. On a K4s it was > just below the Keystone. Anyone know for sure what color was this plate > painted? Toluidine Red with Gold Leaf or Black with Gold Leaf? I have > seen plenty of Plates but never a Train Name Plate that survived in any > collection. As always, Thank you, Gary > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 17:31:10 -0700 From: "Dave Mittner" Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 4909 Homepage Joe, I imagine you are the envy of many, many SPF's. Your webpage is bookmarked. No chance of going back to the Pennsy years paint scheme on this project, huh? Well good luck on this major undertaking. When it's finished maybe I will use a shot of her in one of my paintings. Dave Dave's Gallery of Railroad Art. http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 3:42 PM Subject: [PRR] GG1 4909 Homepage > For anyone who might be interested, I created a homepage dedicated to GG1 4909. I recently purchased the 4909 from the Leatherstocking Railway Museum and hope to bring it to Connecticut for display (most likely at the Danbury Railroad Museum). The webpage has some history of the 4909 and will have photos of the re-painting etc. > > The webpage is at: > > http://www.PJandCompany.com/GG1 > > Joe > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Color Question. Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:50:56 -0400 Gary, In the first chapter of Pennsy Streamliners The Blue Ribbon Fleet There are many pictures of K4's and the S1 with the name plates, They appear to my eye to be the same color as the keystones, I am also about to check PSY 1 & 2. Pennsy Power 1 discussed these locomotives and may show them, Yep page 175 PP1 the lighting hits the locomotive keystone and nameplate at the same angle, the color really appears to be the same. Didn't notice any color photo's in either PSY I have. Hope this helps Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: ; Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:33 PM Subject: [PRR] Color Question. > Lists, > > No this isn't one of those DGLE DGLP or DGLF etc color questions. > This might be a little harder, or, maybe not. Certain Steam Locos > assigned to Blue Ribbon Passenger Trains had a Cast Brass(?) Badge with > the name of the train attached to the front of the Loco. ie: The > Broadway Limited, The Admiral, The Jefforsonian etc. On a K4s it was > just below the Keystone. Anyone know for sure what color was this plate > painted? Toluidine Red with Gold Leaf or Black with Gold Leaf? I have > seen plenty of Plates but never a Train Name Plate that survived in any > collection. As always, Thank you, Gary > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:33:36 EDT Subject: [PRR] Colors through the Fogg Fogg painted at least two trains with K-4's wearing a nameplates that were used as Leanin' Tree Xmas Cards: one featured the #5471, in a a wintery mountain scene. (I have a mounted version of the card - so I can not verify the title or location) I believe the painting was titled "Running Late and Running Fast". I have a large size print of the other, which features #5451 and a an NYC J-1e, near Chicago, in a 1930 blizzard. It was titled "The Great Race" and was on the cover of "Trains" last winter. The trainplate, in both paintings was for the "Broad Way." Recognizing, as previously discussed, that paintings are NOT photographs, but giving Fogg credit for meticulous work, the colors on both trainplates match the number plates. (Gold, with Red Background) I think that you may have to take Fogg as the authority, on this, as I did not find any Griff Tellers that could be used as a cross check. Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:12:55 EDT Subject: [PRR] Colors through the Fogg - "Trainplates" One further thought - The reason that very few (or none) "Trainplates" survived: Were they really castings? After further thought I seem to remember seeing something, somewhere that could have been one of these things, red and gold - but it was painted on a piece of wood - Was it really a trainplate or something used in a Station? At this point I can't tell you, but the real composition of the signs seems worthy of discussion - if they were painted planks, it would help explain why few, if any, are seen today. Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] G30 and G30a Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:45:45 -0700 Brian Carlson asked: I have recently purchased one of the Tichy "War Emergency Gons" PRR class G30 ... I need to locate a photo of the wood sided cars in service in the late 50's. Brian, check out Ted Culotta's excellent article "War Emergency Gons" in the August 2001 issue of RMC. Not only does the article include 4 PRR G30 photos (including one with an interesting Phelps Dodge cable reel load), but it covers all of the roads that had this prototype. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] O scale brass GLa Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:32:42 -0400 Anyone interested in picking up some brass O scale GLa hoppers? I will have some available as soon as they are released in the next few months. They will be $215.00 each. Contact me of list at: GASER@alltel.net Thanks, Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:51:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] O scale brass GLa From: Jerry Britton On 7/16/01 2:32 PM, Greg Stone (gaser@alltel.net) wrote: > Anyone interested in picking up some brass O scale GLa hoppers? I will have > some available as soon as they are released in the next few months. They > will be $215.00 each. > Contact me of list at: > GASER@alltel.net > You might also try the free listings database at www.brasstrains.net ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:38:00 -0400 From: Bob Johnson Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 1 As many of you know, the PRRT&HS Archives Committee has been discussing how to convert the collection of PRR drawings and documents at Lewistown into a working archive. A suggestion was made that we try to obtain input from a representative sample of potential users of the collection. Jerry has allowed us to pose a few questions for discussion on PRR-Talk. To introduce each question, I will give a little background information and then pose a question for discussion. It would be very helpful to the Committee (Joe Acri, Chris Baer, Bob Johnson and Paul Schopp) if you will provide a little information about yourself when you answer. Please identify yourself as a PRRT&HS member or nonmember and also how often you have used various existing archives: frequent user - several times a year, occasional user - once a year or less, or non-user. Question 1 - background. There are two primary methods for describing the contents of a series or subseries within a collection. The more common method is to use one or a few paragraphs to describe the contents in relatively general terms. This should give a "flavor" of what is likely to be found in the collection, but generally doesn't describe things down to the level of individual items. The other method is more in the form of a list of documents, such as a computer database. It has been suggested that the list form is more appropriate for such items as drawings, whereas the paragraph format is often preferred for files. Which form of inventory works best for you, and why? Thanks for your interest, Bob Johnson, Chairman PRRT&HS Archives Committee ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:09:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 1 From: Jerry Britton On 7/16/01 4:38 PM, Bob Johnson at (bobjohnson@alltel.net) wrote: > Question 1 - background. There are two primary methods for describing > the contents of a series or subseries within a collection. The more > common method is to use one or a few paragraphs to describe the contents > in relatively general terms. This should give a "flavor" of what is > likely to be found in the collection, but generally doesn't describe > things down to the level of individual items. The other method is more > in the form of a list of documents, such as a computer database. It has > been suggested that the list form is more appropriate for such items as > drawings, whereas the paragraph format is often preferred for files. > > Which form of inventory works best for you, and why? > PRRT&HS #6111 I believe both are needed (as fields in a database), but both will not be completed for all items. The first field, an Alpha field for faster searching and sorting, would produce the "simple list" that you describe. It helps one to quickly narrow a search down to a subset of records. An Alpha field would have a limit in the number of characters it can hold. I would recommend no fewer than 60 and no more than 254. The second field would be a Text field. Text fields typically are either unlimited in size or have a large size imposed. They are slower to searched and sorted on, but have the flexibility to hold little (or no) or a lot of information, as the item in question requires. The important factor is to have ALL of the archives searchable in one file. You SHOULD NOT have separate files for microfilm, blueprints, photos, etc. Another field in the database would differentiate the format of the item. You want to make it easy for the end user to find materials with one search, not to repeat searches in multiple files. All for now! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:23:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 1 In a message dated 7/16/2001 1:46:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bobjohnson@alltel.net writes: << Question 1 - background. There are two primary methods for describing the contents of a series or subseries within a collection. The more common method is to use one or a few paragraphs to describe the contents in relatively general terms. This should give a "flavor" of what is likely to be found in the collection, but generally doesn't describe things down to the level of individual items. The other method is more in the form of a list of documents, such as a computer database. It has been suggested that the list form is more appropriate for such items as drawings, whereas the paragraph format is often preferred for files. Which form of inventory works best for you, and why? >> First the "bit about me" -- I am a frequent archives user -- every chance I get, which probably comes down to maybe 10 days a year. I have used PRR-related collections at the National Archives, Hagley Museum, and Penn State U. for various projects. The item-by-item list approach works well for me on drawings and photographs. It can also be good for map-type items (maps, diagrams, etc.) -- either by individual item or by some logical higher group, like "Harrisburg-Altoona". It would be ideal to catalog every letter in a carton of letters, and while you are at it, make the subject searchable by some sort of electronic search engine. But get real! I can't think of a library that has its whole collection in this form, and certainly not one that deals with arcane topics like railroads (as opposed to geneology!!!!!) So the paragraph about the collection ("3 cu ft of letters to and from J. P. Throttlebottom, night yardmaster at Huntingdon from 1897 to 1903") should be enough to get a serious researcher going and at the same time be a level of indexing that could be acomplished within the lifetimes of those who still remember the Pennsy. Lee Rainey ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 1 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:35:17 -0400 Bob and list: Concerning your inquiry re: PRR archives of the PRRT&HS. I am not a member and have never used the archives, but am a former PRR Sales Representative and railfan that also builds PRR models in N scale. I think drawings need to be approached in different manners depending on what they are drawings of. Equipment drawings would be most useful if they were organized by car and locomotive type, i.e.. Boxcar, X29, draft gear assembly. Problems with this may arise if a part is used on more than one car or locomotive although ideally it should be indexed under each one. Maps, plats and track diagrams are more difficult to organize. I would propose for starters that consideration be given to cataloging them in the order the site appears in the CT 1000 of 1945. I don't know how many files you have, as the PRR threw out files per the ICC rules, although there naturally are some permanent files such as trackage rights agreements. I don't know, but there may still be a few of these still in force in places like Baltimore. These files were kept in the attic of Penn Station there and predated the use of typewriters, being in beautiful penmanship! Date and single sentence subject matter should identify these. Just my penny's worth. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Johnson" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 4:38 PM Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 1 > As many of you know, the PRRT&HS Archives Committee has been discussing > how to convert the collection of PRR drawings and documents at Lewistown > into a working archive. A suggestion was made that we try to obtain > input from a representative sample of potential users of the > collection. Jerry has allowed us to pose a few questions for discussion > on PRR-Talk. > > To introduce each question, I will give a little background information > and then pose a question for discussion. It would be very helpful to > the Committee (Joe Acri, Chris Baer, Bob Johnson and Paul Schopp) if you > will provide a little information about yourself when you answer. > Please identify yourself as a PRRT&HS member or nonmember and also how > often you have used various existing archives: frequent user - several > times a year, occasional user - once a year or less, or non-user. > > Question 1 - background. There are two primary methods for describing > the contents of a series or subseries within a collection. The more > common method is to use one or a few paragraphs to describe the contents > in relatively general terms. This should give a "flavor" of what is > likely to be found in the collection, but generally doesn't describe > things down to the level of individual items. The other method is more > in the form of a list of documents, such as a computer database. It has > been suggested that the list form is more appropriate for such items as > drawings, whereas the paragraph format is often preferred for files. > > Which form of inventory works best for you, and why? > > Thanks for your interest, > > Bob Johnson, Chairman > PRRT&HS Archives Committee > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:50:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Colors through the Fogg - "Trainplates" In a message dated 7/16/01 12:30:54 PM Central Daylight Time, VVA249@aol.com writes: << Were they really castings? After further thought I seem to remember seeing something, somewhere that could have been one of these things, red and gold - but it was painted on a piece of wood - >> Good question. I have another theory. Unfortunately, very few made it into the heavier color era, due to the Blue Ribbon trains being dieselized so fast. That may explain the shortage of color photos. On the other hand, the only still photo I can find in color is in August 1941 and is too dark to tell any color. Were they metal that was deemed needed for the war effort? Having exhausted my supply of still color photos, I will be on the lookout in color videos to see if I can find one in color. I had always assumed they were gold on toluidine red, but now you've got my curiosity aroused. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:08:44 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 1 Hi Bob, I've been doing databases for my school for the past 12 years and I'm going to recommend that the archives be put in a database form. Most modern database programs are relational which means that you'd have the ability to cross-reference, reformat, etc. to (basically) anywhere you want to take it. I'd personally recommend FileMaker as it has excellent templates. I don't know if there are others who've used FileMaker but one advantage is that is cross-platform (Mac and Windows) Bill Morlitz National and PHL Chapter PRRT&HS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Colors through the Fogg - "Trainplates" Bob,           I can't imagne these name plates being other than Cast Brass or Cast Iron. Wood just dosn't seem right on a loco.       Thru your research on locating photos of name plates, how many different ones did you find? I have yet to look thru my large K4 photo collection, I will do that tonight. The most not so common plate I have seen in my books is for the "New Yorker" The common ones are: The Broadway Limited, The Liberty Limited, The Admiral, The Trail Blazer, The Jefforsonian, The South Wind, The Spirit of St. Louiis , The Manhattan Limited, The St.Louisan. I know I have seen them in photos in the past. Possibles are, Detroit Arrow, Golden Triangle, Red Arrow etc.         What others were there? Please list a source of the photo if possible. Get your books out!.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Colors through the Fogg - "Trainplates" Bob, List, I went thru my photo album listing the 425 k4s. I found some more plate names. They are: "The General" Photo of K4s 5493 in 1938 "The Golden Arrow" K4s 3877 in mid 30's "The Union" K4s 945 in 1941 "The Rainbow" K4s 1546 in 1932 "The Detroit Arrow" K4s 5360 in 1939 Still more albums to leaf thru. I also received an email from Hank M. There is a book titled The History of the Pennsylvania Railroad by Timothy Jacobs. The front color cover has D16sb 1223 at Strasburg wearing the "Pennsylvania Special" name plate. I forgot I had this book and I just took a look. Sure enough. it has one attached. The color is red with brass color name and border. Anyone know if this is a "real" plate that was on loan from the museum? This could answer the on going color question.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:27:56 -0700 (PDT) From: CHUCK S Subject: [PRR] Trains In the new issue , there is a shot of the High Line in Philly. In the yard below there are tops of cars showing. ???--the row next to the hoppers( to the right) are box cars with different doors ---- are these PRR---if so what class-----TIA chuck s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:15:21 -0700 Chuck S wrote: In the new issue , there is a shot of the High Line in Philly. In the yard below there are tops of cars showing. ???--the row next to the hoppers (to the right) are box cars with different doors ---- are these PRR---if so what class Chuck, the three cars to the right of the cut of hoppers are not PRR cars - they are Atlantic Coast Line 36 ft ventilated boxcars. The cars were equipped with two doors - a regular door for normal cargo, and a ventilated door with screen and bars used in conjunction with end ventilators for produce loading of crops that do not require refrigeration (most commonly watermelons). These have been available for years in HO, first as an Ambroid wood kit, then as an AHM RTR car (now available from Con-Cor in every paint scheme except the only correct one - ACL), and now as an accurate cast-resin kit from Westerfield. AHM and Con-Cor markets the models as "old-time" cars, but the truth is that these cars were frequent visitors to the produce markets of the northeast into the late 1950s. This photo is a great study of rolling stock in the late teens and early 20s - note that steel boxcars are extremely scarce (only a pair of Pennsy Class X25 boxcars are visible in the train on the High Line - one three cars behind the engine, one visible near the left edge of the photo), and single-sheathed boxcars are in the minority, although more than a few double-sheathed boxcars now sport steel ends. The majority of the boxcars in the photo are of wooden construction, including two interesting boxcars at the head of the train - an NH 36 ft boxcar with the script herald, and a FtDDM&S boxcar with huge billboard lettering and a large herald. Steel hopper cars are very much in evidence, and have been for some time on the Pennsy since the introduction of Class GL hoppers early in the twentieth century. Lurking in the background under plumes of steam are a cut of 36 ft stock cars including one Class KF car. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:38:42 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsylvania Special name train plate Greetings to Gary and the list: This plate was made by Ken Murry circa 1981-82 specially for the ceremonies surrounding the 150th anniversary of the Strasburg Rail Road. He also made the illuminated glass keystone tail sign and light box that SRR trains carried when they used the PRR passenger rolling stock as part of that same celebration. For those not acquainted, Ken is a PRR fan extraordinaire, having commissioned and bought many Teller paintings, and having served the Lancaster Chapter NRHS long and faithfully as chairman of the "Friends of GG1 4800" preservation committee and the J Tower ("Lemo," relocated from Lemoyne, Pa.) preservation committee. Dan Cupper =========================== Gary Mittner wrote: > > There is a book titled The History of the Pennsylvania Railroad by > Timothy Jacobs. The front color cover has D16sb 1223 at Strasburg > wearing the "Pennsylvania Special" name plate. The color is > red with brass color name and border. Anyone know if this is a "real" > plate that was on loan from the museum? This could answer the on going > color question.....Gary > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:14:31 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 1 Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 7/16/01 6:08 PM, prrbill at (prrbill@Op.Net) wrote: > > > I've been doing databases for my school for the past 12 years and I'm > > going to recommend that the archives be put in a database form. Most > > modern database programs are relational which means that you'd have the > > ability to cross-reference, reformat, etc. to (basically) anywhere you > > want to take it. I'd personally recommend FileMaker as it has excellent > > templates. I don't know if there are others who've used FileMaker but > > one advantage is that is cross-platform (Mac and Windows) > > > As both a FileMaker and 4th Dimension developer, I believe 4D should also be > looked at. It is also relational. It also has capabilities that meld with an > eCommerce solution the BoD is already considering. > Jerry Britton, SPF Bob and Jerry, Absolutely; especially if 4D is more eCommerce oriented. My databasing is limited to what's compatible with the Philadelphia School District. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 05:03:02 -0400 From: Ike Subject: [PRR] K4s # 3274 builders plate on E-Bay A bit pricey for me at present, but wanted to point it out to anyone interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1165426334 Ike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:23:59 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsylvania Special name train plate Dan Cupper wrote: > > Greetings to Gary and the list: > > This plate was made by Ken Murry circa 1981-82 specially for the > ceremonies surrounding the 150th anniversary of the Strasburg Rail Road. > He also made the illuminated glass keystone tail sign and light box that > SRR trains carried when they used the PRR passenger rolling stock as > part of that same celebration. For those not acquainted, Ken is a PRR > fan extraordinaire, having commissioned and bought many Teller > paintings, and having served the Lancaster Chapter NRHS long and > faithfully as chairman of the "Friends of GG1 4800" preservation > committee and the J Tower ("Lemo," relocated from Lemoyne, Pa.) > preservation committee. > > Dan Cupper As Ken authentically deserves the accolade of PRR Fan Extraodinaire, then certainly Dan does also. Sometimes I wish I were born earlier just so I could have cut my teeth when the PRR was in its heyday. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 06:24:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 1 From: Jerry Britton On 7/16/01 6:08 PM, prrbill at (prrbill@Op.Net) wrote: > I've been doing databases for my school for the past 12 years and I'm > going to recommend that the archives be put in a database form. Most > modern database programs are relational which means that you'd have the > ability to cross-reference, reformat, etc. to (basically) anywhere you > want to take it. I'd personally recommend FileMaker as it has excellent > templates. I don't know if there are others who've used FileMaker but > one advantage is that is cross-platform (Mac and Windows) > As both a FileMaker and 4th Dimension developer, I believe 4D should also be looked at. It is also relational. It also has capabilities that meld with an eCommerce solution the BoD is already considering. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:33:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsylvania Special name train plate In a message dated 7/17/01 6:30:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, prrbill@Op.Net writes: << As Ken authentically deserves the accolade of PRR Fan Extraodinaire, then certainly Dan does also. Sometimes I wish I were born earlier just so I could have cut my teeth when the PRR was in its heyday. Bill Morlitz >> I'll make that a "big 10-4" on both your comments Bill ! Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:53:59 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsylvania Special name train plate How about PRR style, and making it a big "2-10-4" ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== JONS6755@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/17/01 6:30:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, prrbill@Op.Net > writes: > > << As Ken authentically deserves the accolade of PRR Fan Extraodinaire, > then certainly Dan does also. Sometimes I wish I were born earlier > just so I could have cut my teeth when the PRR was in its heyday. > > Bill Morlitz >> > > I'll make that a "big 10-4" on both your comments Bill ! > > Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:34:45 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Atlas N Scale Code 55 Track Part Numbers From: Jerry Britton The industry is abuzz with the announcement last weekend by Atlas of Code 55 track, to be shipped this fall. Absent were part nubers, etc., but I found a post in the Atlas N scale forum which claims to be taken from a flyer at the NMRA show: -------------(clip)----------------- >From the "ATLAS NEWS" flyer Paul G. gave me at the show list the following track pieces; #2000 code 55 flex track #2002 6" straight #2003 4-1/4" straight #2004 3" straight #2005 2" straight #2006 1-1/4" straight #2007 1" straight #2008 3/4" straight #2010 10" radius full curve #2011 10" radius half curve #2012 11-1/2" radius full curve #2013 11-1/2" radius half curve #2014 12-1/2" radius full curve #2015 12-1/2" radius half curve #2016 13-3/4" radius full curve #2017 13-3/4" radius half curve #2018 15" radius full curve #2019 15" radius half curve #2020 16-1/4" radius full curve #2021 16-1/4" radius half curve #2022 17-1/2" radius full curve #2023 17-1/2" radius half curve #2024 18-3/4" radius full curve #2025 18-3/4" radius half curve #2026 20" radius full curve #2027 20" radius half curve #2028 21-1/4" radius full curve #2029 21-1/4" radius half curve #2030 30" radius curve #2040 11.25 degree crossing #2045 45 degree crossing #2050 #5 left turnout #2051 #5 right turnout #2065 under table switch machine #2090 metal rail joiners #2091 insulated rail joiners #2092 terminal joiners Pieces available this fall; flex-track, #5 turnouts, 11.25 crossing, rail joiners, insulated joiners and terminal joiners. No where is there any news about a #7 turnout. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:24:23 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsylvania Special name train plate Greetings to Bill and the list: prrbill wrote: > > ... Ken authentically deserves the accolade of PRR Fan Extraodinaire, > ... Sometimes I wish I were born earlier > just so I could have cut my teeth when the PRR was in its heyday. Ken Murry has a few years on me. He's just old enough that, as a teenager, he could drive to Enola during the last season or two of steam, whereupon he and his camera got tossed out of the yard by a PRR policeman after grabbing a quick shot of an I1. At about that time, I was in first grade and very excited about my mom taking me to Lewistown station specially to see the Aerotrain. Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lmatt" Subject: [PRR] Archives Ques #1 Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:59:51 -0400 I am an illustrator of RR items and require a look at original equipment drawings to make sure I am doing my drawings correctly. I would like to see a small preview drawing in the index to verify what drawing I am looking for. Lew Matt #6107 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gene Deimling" Subject: [PRR] Freight Car Red Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 22:06:10 -0700 I read somewhere recently that PollyScale acrylic Special Oxide Red is "dead on" for PRR Freight Car Red. Can anyone confirm this? I have some of the Scale Coat II enamel paint but wanted to try the water-based paint for health reasons. Thanks, Gene Deimling editor, The Proto Journal Visit our site and learn more about Proto48 http://www.protojournal.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:47:04 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Ebay Alert---PRR books Folks, The two books below were listed on ebay last night under First Edition Books: "Pennsy Steam & Semaphores", Fred Westing Item # 1448028369 "Hudson & Manhattan Railroad Revisited", Carleton. Item #1448034048 Just in case there's any book collections. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: [PRR] NYC Hudsons Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:18:35 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C10F62.3E97C530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks: Just a quick question to the group, does anyone know of a real good book on the NYC Hudsons? I've been playing Microsoft Train Simulator (which is great by the way, and includes the NEC from Philly to DC) and someone created a add-on loco for it of the NYC Empire State Express Hudson, and it has peaked my interest into learning more about the K4s's arch rival. Now we just need someone to create a K4 or GG1 for the game!! Tom von Trott ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C10F62.3E97C530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi folks:

 

Just a quick question to the group, does anyone know = of a real good book on the NYC Hudsons?  I’ve been playing = Microsoft Train Simulator (which is great by the way, and includes the NEC from Philly = to DC) and someone created a add-on loco for it of the NYC Empire State Express Hudson, and it has peaked my interest into learning more about the = K4s’s arch rival.  Now we just need = someone to create a K4 or GG1 for the game!!

 

Tom von Trott =

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C10F62.3E97C530-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 06:16:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Alliance Locomotive HO repower kits arrive Hello lists, My first order from Alliance Locomotive arrived today. My immediate project is a kitbashed USRA heavy mike I'm building. It has a Cary boiler, but is otherwise the Bowser USRA Light Mike kit. It's Alliance part number 152, and the package says it will work with the Bowser PRR M1/M1a, Northern, K4s, L1s, and USRA Light 2-8-2. The directions are one sheet, but have specific information where necessary for particular engines; you're not left in the dark. I have yet to fit the motor to the chassis, but I did hook up test leads; it sounds the same as the old Alco Products versions did. To me, this is a good thing, as the repower kits (from Alco) that I've installed have been very good to me. I look forward to running my Mike (and the other 2 repower kits I bought) soon. Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:41:55 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] New Book of interest for PRR Modelers From: Jerry Britton On 7/18/01 7:50 AM, threebutchers@cs.com (threebutchers@cs.com) wrote: > "The Passenger Car Library, Vol 4 - Mid-Atlantic Railroads" is now > available from RPC Publications. It contains over 191 pages of photos > (mostly builders) and drawings with nearly 110 pages of PRR content. > Another new book just announced, and due 7/30, from The Railroad Press: "Anthracite Classics" -- PRR, RDG, CNJ, LV in the Pennssylvania coal regions -- PRR steam, Reading steam & diesels Jersey Central early diesels, Lehigh Valley early diesels. Decapods, Conslidations, Northerns, ALCO FA's, RS3's, F3's, F7's, GP7's and more!!! 48 pages. Retail $19.95. Other books due that some may have missed announcements on... "Pennsy Steam Years, Volume Three", Morning Sun Books, August "Triumph IV: Middle Division", from Bernard Roberts Publishing, Sept. Volume Two of the "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car" series from The Railroad Press should be announced soon. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:07:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] NYC Hudsons In a message dated 7/18/01 8:28:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, prr643@usa.net writes: << does anyone know of a real good book on the NYC Hudsons? >> "THOROUGHBREDS" by Al Stauffer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] Freight Car Red Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:10:47 -0500 I am not the inventor of this; someone else on the list mentioned it a while ago. Use a 50/50 mix of Polly Scale 414354 Special Oxide Red and 414293 Zinc Chromate Primer. I also have been experimenting with adding reefer orange to the mix to get a more orangish color, closer to the red on the Red Caboose X29s, my favorite interpretation of Pennsy freight car red. In the August MR paint shop column, Marty McQuirk suggests the Special Oxide Red for a freshly painted car, and the Zinc Chromate Primer for an older car. He said he compared the Special Oxide Red to a 1952 drift card, and they were very close. Andy -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Gene Deimling Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:06 AM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] Freight Car Red I read somewhere recently that PollyScale acrylic Special Oxide Red is "dead on" for PRR Freight Car Red. Can anyone confirm this? I have some of the Scale Coat II enamel paint but wanted to try the water-based paint for health reasons. Thanks, Gene Deimling editor, The Proto Journal Visit our site and learn more about Proto48 http://www.protojournal.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] PRR Colors Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:35:49 -0400 To the List: The following information may help list members looking for larger volumes of paint for 1:1 scale equipment. This information is not intended to rekindle the flames of THE debate. Rather, it is meant to inform the reader and as the resident paint expert, that is one of my duties During and archival search today, I found a color chip and related note concerning PRR Tuscan Red. The unsigned typewritten note states: "The paint sample in the enclosed envelope is M.A. Bruder's 'Rich Lux Floor and Deck Enamel', No 31081, Tuscan Red. This color is identical to a Pittsburgh Industrial Finishes paint chip retrieved from the PRR's Penn Center Philadelphia offices .... Pittsburgh samples were labeled Tuscan Red Polyclutch Diesel Enamel no. N29877... Also found was a section captioned Brunswick Green [DGLE for those of you from Dunbar, PA] on page 95 May 1978, Railroad Model Craftsman. The section states: "Most modelers are familiar with .... how much actual green was in the famous Brunswick Green paint (which looked black except under careful inspection, when the green hue was evident - we think) .... a June 1951 Memorandum of Conference from the Baldwin Locomotive Works .... Clearly specified under painting is the note .... the painting will consist of one coat of surfacer and four coats of Brunswick Green lacquer .... Egyptian Lacquer Company EN-5448 or Dupont 234-32550 .... So Brunswick Green it was." [This is further proof that the debate did not start on PRR-Talk and although the PRR did not use Brunswick Green, someone did. So much for DGLE.] Carl P. Izzo Industrial Paint Consultant ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:17:50 -0400 From: Thomas Mahon Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Actually Carl the best part of the whole item was "M.A. Bruder" and "Richlux" God! Haven't heard those since John Facenda did the morning news on WCAU radio. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH Carl Izzo wrote: > To the List: > > The following information may help list members looking for larger > volumes of paint for 1:1 scale equipment. This information is not intended > to rekindle the flames of THE debate. Rather, it is meant to inform the > reader and as the resident paint expert, that is one of my duties > > During and archival search today, I found a color chip and related note > concerning PRR Tuscan Red. The unsigned typewritten note states: "The > paint sample in the enclosed envelope is M.A. Bruder's 'Rich Lux Floor and > Deck Enamel', No 31081, Tuscan Red. This color is identical to a Pittsburgh > Industrial Finishes paint chip retrieved from the PRR's Penn Center > Philadelphia offices .... Pittsburgh samples were labeled Tuscan Red > Polyclutch Diesel Enamel no. N29877... > > Also found was a section captioned Brunswick Green [DGLE for those of > you from Dunbar, PA] on page 95 May 1978, Railroad Model Craftsman. The > section states: "Most modelers are familiar with .... how much actual green > was in the famous Brunswick Green paint (which looked black except under > careful inspection, when the green hue was evident - we think) .... > a June 1951 Memorandum of Conference from the Baldwin Locomotive Works .... > Clearly specified under painting is the note .... the painting will consist > of one coat of surfacer and four coats of Brunswick Green lacquer .... > Egyptian Lacquer Company EN-5448 or Dupont 234-32550 .... So Brunswick Green > it was." [This is further proof that the debate did not start on PRR-Talk > and although the PRR did not use Brunswick Green, someone did. So much for > DGLE.] > > Carl P. Izzo > Industrial Paint Consultant > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lmatt" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:46:00 -0400 Dear Carl: I have a red roofing paint, that is rust resistant, that I used to paint my old raised rib barn roof. It is a dead ringer for the tuscan red used on equipment at the museum in Strasburg, both under the indoor lights and outside. Now if I can just figure out the pattern for gold cat whiskers on the raised rib roof, I'll be in PRR heaven. Lew Matt #6107 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Izzo" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 3:35 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR Colors > To the List: > > The following information may help list members looking for larger > volumes of paint for 1:1 scale equipment. This information is not intended > to rekindle the flames of THE debate. Rather, it is meant to inform the > reader and as the resident paint expert, that is one of my duties > > During and archival search today, I found a color chip and related note > concerning PRR Tuscan Red. The unsigned typewritten note states: "The > paint sample in the enclosed envelope is M.A. Bruder's 'Rich Lux Floor and > Deck Enamel', No 31081, Tuscan Red. This color is identical to a Pittsburgh > Industrial Finishes paint chip retrieved from the PRR's Penn Center > Philadelphia offices .... Pittsburgh samples were labeled Tuscan Red > Polyclutch Diesel Enamel no. N29877... > > Also found was a section captioned Brunswick Green [DGLE for those of > you from Dunbar, PA] on page 95 May 1978, Railroad Model Craftsman. The > section states: "Most modelers are familiar with .... how much actual green > was in the famous Brunswick Green paint (which looked black except under > careful inspection, when the green hue was evident - we think) .... > a June 1951 Memorandum of Conference from the Baldwin Locomotive Works .... > Clearly specified under painting is the note .... the painting will consist > of one coat of surfacer and four coats of Brunswick Green lacquer .... > Egyptian Lacquer Company EN-5448 or Dupont 234-32550 .... So Brunswick Green > it was." [This is further proof that the debate did not start on PRR-Talk > and although the PRR did not use Brunswick Green, someone did. So much for > DGLE.] > > Carl P. Izzo > Industrial Paint Consultant > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] Painting brass Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:25:48 -0400 I would like an opinion of PRR brass model painters. Do you recommend a specific primer before painting your brass cars? I like the early pennsy orangish frieght car color. I think that Scale Coat's oxide red looks good for a freshly painted car. Does anyone have a formula for making it looked weather worn i.e. faded? --Greg Stone PRRT&HS member special interest Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:48:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Painting brass In a message dated 7/18/01 5:36:03 PM Central Daylight Time, gaser@alltel.net writes: << I would like an opinion of PRR brass model painters. Do you recommend a specific primer before painting your brass cars? >> I have not, but in the future I will try a gray undercoat. I think it gives a truer color. I have also heard suggestions (I think from the Prototype Modeler list) that silver is a good base coat for the same reason. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:42:26 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Fire in Railroad Tunnel in Baltimore From: Jerry Britton It has been reported that a train carrying hazardous materials caught fire INSIDE a tunnel under the city of Baltimore. The fire has been burning for over eight hours. Anyone know if this is on former PRR right-of-way? I know there were at least two PRR tunnels in Baltimore. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Fire in Railroad Tunnel in Baltimore Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:56:36 -0400 Jerry, The incident you reference is in the CSX Howard Street Tunnel in Baltimore. There is complete coverage on the "OS/Sightings" page of my site at www.forcomm.net/flagstop. Terry Stuart Date: Thursday, July 19, 2001 8:45 AM Subject: [PRR] Fire in Railroad Tunnel in Baltimore >It has been reported that a train carrying hazardous materials caught fire >INSIDE a tunnel under the city of Baltimore. The fire has been burning for >over eight hours. > >Anyone know if this is on former PRR right-of-way? I know there were at >least two PRR tunnels in Baltimore. >----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:01:21 -0400 From: Steve Hanlon Subject: Re: [PRR] Fire in Railroad Tunnel in Baltimore At 08:42 AM 7/19/01 -0400, Jerry Britton wrote: >It has been reported that a train carrying hazardous materials caught fire >INSIDE a tunnel under the city of Baltimore. The fire has been burning for >over eight hours. > >Anyone know if this is on former PRR right-of-way? I know there were at >least two PRR tunnels in Baltimore. CSX nee B&O howard street tunnel. -steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:01:44 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Fire in Railroad Tunnel in Baltimore Jerry & folks, I only caught a split-second glance at this incident on cable news last night, but that definitly wasn't Pennsy trackage. Fox News' Laurie Dhue may be one of the best looking newscasters I've ever seen, but she ain't much of a railfan, referring to the site as Camden Yards. If that wasn't the old train shed and tower of Mount Royal station they showed, why..why, I won't model railroad for at least two days while I study B&O depot photos.(Of course, it's possible smoke was billowing out at the Camden Station end of the tunnel as well; I only did catch a glimpse of their footage) But no way was that ex-Pennsy trackage. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:40:59 EDT From: WAJK4@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Fire in Railroad Tunnel in Baltimore Reporters may not be able to provide us much information as to the location, but most of us know better anyway. Maybe the news stations should hire on rail fans so we can give them accurate information. Ah yes, I can dream can't I? I just watched the 11:30 broadcast on Headline News, and someone was actually smart enough to interview David Gould. But on the other hand, the little blurbs at the bottom of the screen said that the train exploded. Most likely it derailed like was reported yesterday. It was also stated on the news that the train derailed near the front. I can't wait to find out the whole story. So over all, they are doing their best, even though on this subject, we just happen to know more about the location than they do. Anyone have a guess as to when the tunnel might reopen? I can't see CSX closing the tunnel totally, it's a mojor route if I remember correctly. Walt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:41:42 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Fire in Railroad Tunnel in Baltimore for up to the minute info and some history lessons see: http://www.sunspot.net/ JimMcDaniel, formerly a resident of Balamer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:17:34 EDT Subject: [PRR] Railroad News coverage One of my favorites occured here in Cleveland - standing in front of a large pile of container flats the reporter kept refering to how many "boxcars" had derailed. No one was hurt, but one of the diesel units had ended up on its side. The main concern was leakage of the diesel fuel as "railroads have discontinued the use of Steam Locomotives - some time ago" Of course - when CSX had the runaway a few months back the local newspeople were all upset over the possibility of a derailment in Canton - while the train was headed for Kenton (but Canton is a bigger market) What's not funny is that newspeople are so wrong so often on stuff we know about - how much baloney are they feeding us on stuff we don't know about? Airline disasters"? Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lmatt" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:38:16 -0400 Glad to Mark. I assume you aren't interested in the gold cat whiskers on the roof, so I'll tell you about the paint. It is labled "Pro-Mar" rich gloss alkyd enamel, Barn Red (terra cotta {in praenth}). It came in a 30? gal. barrel and I have about a gallon left. It was here, unopened, when I purchased the farm. I've done a lot of painting scince. Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bej" To: "lmatt" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors > lmatt scribit: > > > > Dear Carl: > > > > I have a red roofing paint, that is rust resistant, that I used to paint my > > old raised rib barn roof. It is a dead ringer for the tuscan red used on > > equipment at the museum in Strasburg, both under the indoor lights and > > outside. Now if I can just figure out the pattern for gold cat whiskers on > > the raised rib roof, I'll be in PRR heaven. > > Hey, Lew, ... > mind cluing the rest of us in? > > :-) > > > -- > Mark > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:13:45 -0400 On July 18, 2001 10:12 AM Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Mark Franke wrote: > Carl > so is DuPont 234-32550 available in any form commercially ? > Thanks > Mark Franke > Hi Mark: The formulation, DuPont 234-32550, probably exists. Since the PRR does not exist, they would probably make the paint for you as a "special" with a "premium" selling price. Without knowing for sure, the minimum order may be 50 gallons. However it won't cost you anything to ask. Carl P. Izzo Industrial Paint Consultant ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:50:14 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Railroad tunnel fire in Baltimore From: John Sheets One of the cars they got out was a boxcar, it was badly blackened, the culprit car was still in the tunnel last nite, because it was too hot to move, apparently not "exploded", but definately burning,smoking. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:56:50 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] More about the fire in Baltimore This from a western Pa ISP (located in Vandergrift, on the former PRR Conemaugh Div.) July 20, 2001 SLOW SURFING ON WWW Have you noticed that suffering on the World Wide Web has been slow? We’ve had some calls about web sites coming up very slow, and there’s good reason why. The problem occurred by a Baltimore train derailment that caused a massive tunnel fire literally shutting down most parts of Baltimore the past few days, including the Orioles game. The fire burned fiber-optic cables, slowing Internet traffic across the United States. Hopefully the rerouting of Internet traffic will see faster web surfing today. Tech Support Center HighVision Internet Access ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Price" Subject: Re: [PRR] [AD] Highliner A Units Arrive! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:21:54 -0000 Are the side grills/screens available yet? Ed >The Highliner A Units are now in stock. We also received a restock on the B >Units. > >Dennis >mailto:dennis@onerrave.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] [AD] Highliner A Units Arrive! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:08:27 -0400 The Highliner A Units are now in stock. We also received a restock on the B Units. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S Hobbies http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 (732) 271-0800 Voice (732) 271-0805 Fax ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:48:38 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Painting brass >I would like an opinion of PRR brass model painters. Do you recommend a >specific primer before painting your brass cars? I like the early pennsy >orangish frieght car color. I think that Scale Coat's oxide red looks good >for a freshly painted car. Does anyone have a formula for making it looked >weather worn i.e. faded? >--Greg Stone Greg, A recent lesson I learned...none of the so-called "primers" on the model paint market are really primers in the sense that paint specialist might refer to them...that is they have no special adherence properties to metal. In fact, they contain fillers that may hide details. For painting brass, perhaps the #1 thing is surface prep by grit blasting....then you may wish to put on a first color of white or silver to give a truer top coat (I usually don't bother). As for weathered FCC? Try a little reefer white or grey or orange. Note too that an overspray of dust will lighten the color too... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:55:02 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Painting brass Bob replies... <> Bob and all... Privately I mention that I use FLOQUIL Zinc Chromate Primer on all my brass, but I always remove the original varnish/lacquer first. I am a FLOQUIL kinda guy and I understand the use of Acrylic for health reasons... There should be nothing between the brass and the primer to inhibit the oxidation that can occur. Bob's right, on the PM-List I mention some time ago that a favorite primer for bright colors like yellow, ornage and red I have always used silver as an undercoat to keep from having to apply too much paint to cover the original plastic. Most recently my brother used the technique for his reefer articles in Mainline Modeler. It works but I have never used it under black or blue or green. It was a trick I learned years ago from a friend back in the early 70's from a high school friend when he was painting some WP units and having trouble covering the orange. Try it, it works...! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Painting brass Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:56:45 -0400 Greg & all.... I agree with you on the primer issue but I use a different twist since I have painted quite a few cars in my day. I use a self etching primer on all my work. Mostly I have painted Bowser Units but I have done a couple of brass ones also. The brand that I have used is from Sherwin Williams and it is really pricey but nothing sticks to metal better. It actually etches itself into the metal and protects it from any kind of oxidation. The primer has to mixed to be activated and only has a 4-6 hour shelf life, after mixed. I have never has a piece even chip after painting with this stuff. I can get more info in anyone would like. I don't have paint codes here at work. Most brand of automotive paint supply stores carry a similar product. Hope this helps Sam Vastano >From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com >To: , >CC: >Subject: Re: [PRR] Painting brass >Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:55:02 EDT > >Bob replies... > ><specific primer before painting your brass cars? >> > >gives a truer color. I have also heard suggestions (I think from the >Prototype Modeler list) that silver is a good base coat for the same >reason.> > >Bob and all... > >Privately I mention that I use FLOQUIL Zinc Chromate Primer on all my >brass, but I always remove the original varnish/lacquer first. I am a >FLOQUIL kinda guy and I understand the use of Acrylic for health reasons... > There should be nothing between the brass and the primer to inhibit the >oxidation that can occur. Bob's right, on the PM-List I mention some time >ago that a favorite primer for bright colors like yellow, ornage and red I >have always used silver as an undercoat to keep from having to apply too >much paint to cover the original plastic. Most recently my brother used the >technique for his reefer articles in Mainline Modeler. It works but I have >never used it under black or blue or green. It was a trick I learned years >ago from a friend back in the early 70's from a high school friend when he >was painting some WP units and having trouble covering the orange. Try it, >it works...! > >Greg Martin > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] [AD] Highliner A Units Arrive! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:18:42 -0400 We received a limited number (less than we ordered) of grilles for the F-2/F-3 A & B. At this time, we're selling them with the shells only. Dennis mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com Featuring over 10,000 IN-STOCK model railroad items 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 > Are the side grills/screens available yet? > > Ed ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:13:01 -0400 From: Steven Hanlon Subject: [PRR] wisconsin rr museum?? anyone know the name of the museum in wiscon with all the heralds??? -steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:42:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] e-Bay craziness: The K-4s builder's plate on e-bay (Juniata 7-17 c/n 3274) went for $1,742 - This is for 1/2 of a "broken pair" I don't have my Edson's handy - is this a particularly famous K-4, or is this an average price for these things? If so what does a Keystone number plate go for - since there was only one per loco - and not all locos had them (many had the circular plates) Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "?d ???s" Subject: [PRR] PRR 1940 Streamlined Cars Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:47:30 -0500 PRR Listers: I have a question regarding the corrugated streamlined cars that the Pennsy bought for the Trail Blazer in 1939-1940. I believe that these cars were built by Budd and were paint the FOM colors. I did buy a about a dozen of the IHC / Rivarossi (1940 streamlined) cars painted FOM colors about 10 years ago. I know that these cars are not really prototypical for the PRR. Does anyone know how close or far off these cars are? IHC / Rivarossi produced a coach, diner, 10-6 sleeper and observation. Speaking of corrugated cars, what about the ones that Walthers is about to come out with? I believe that these cars are post war (1948). Did the PRR have these cars? Would they have been for the Congressional and other NY to Wash. trains only or did they go throughout the PRR system? Lastly, I have heard rumors that Branchline trains is going to come out with the PRR cars soon painted in FOM colors. Does anyone know what cars that they will be using (corrugated or smooth side). Sorry for all of the questions but thank you in advance! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:46:06 EDT Subject: [PRR] Name Plate & Ventillator Pictures Early this week or late last week someone asked about name plates on the blue ribbon trains. In the book The Penna. Railroad, A Pictorial History, by Edwin Alexander picture numbered 166 gives a decent shot of the Jeffersonian. The picture is in black and white, but it does show the styling of the letters. Also, within the same time frame (I believe it was on this board) that someone asked about the ventillators at Gallitzan. In the book Pennsy Stam and Semaphores, by Fred Westing, there is a decent picture on page 145. I apologize if these have already been mentioned. Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:21:39 EDT From: JSZARMACH@aol.com Subject: [PRR] GG1 4909 Home Page For those who may be interested, I updated my GG1 4909 homepage. I added pictures of the inside of locomotive, as well as photos of some restoration work we did last week. The address is: www.pjandcompany.com/GG1 You may have noticed that I changed the wording pertaining to repainting it in the Penn Central scheme. I am leaning toward the Tuscan Red scheme. That 1954 photo of the 4909 in red is just too convincing -- even though the 4909 never visited Connecticut in red during its active life time. On a related note, the programmers of Microsoft's Train Simulator were soliciting requests for future versions of the software on the MSN Bulletin Board. I posted an message essentially BEGGING them to include a PRR GG1 and train in the next version. I offered my road number (4909) of course... I'm keeping my fingers crossed. --Joe ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:39:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 1940 Streamlined Cars In a message dated 7/20/01 5:52:19 PM Central Daylight Time, ted_andrews@msn.com writes: << I have a question regarding the corrugated streamlined cars that the Pennsy bought for the Trail Blazer in 1939-1940. I believe that these cars were built by Budd and were paint the FOM colors.>> I believe the Trailblazer cars were P70KR cars rebuilt from P70s, not fluted. Pennsy did buy some corrugated (or fluted) coaches and sampled 5 diners from each of the 3 builders, including 5 from Budd, used in the pool, I believe. The Southwind of 1940 consisted of fluted cars from Budd: 4 coaches, a baggage-lounge, diner, and an observation in the train. <> I believe these were postwar NYC cars (or were they Reading?). I don't know if the coach is usable; the others are not very close to anything Pennsy. I have some myself which I run when no other SPF's are around. << Speaking of corrugated cars, what about the ones that Walthers is about to come out with? I believe that these cars are post war (1948). Did the PRR have these cars? Would they have been for the Congressional and other NY to Wash. trains only or did they go throughout the PRR system?>> The UP Pacific series 10-6 may be used as a coast-to-coast sleeper on the Pennsy and I will pick one up. Others were not used. <> Don't know whose cars they will use,but there are no appropriate models for Pennsy available for private labeling, except the ECW 4-4-2, or I suppose you could backdate a Rivarossi Duplex sleeper by adding skirts (not likely to be done) . Unless they use laser-cut or brass car sides, which I doubt. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "carmen sebastiano" Subject: [PRR] T 2500 Lima transfer Deisel Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 15:15:25 Is there a HO kit/model or article on the Lima T2500 Transfer Deisel. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 18:55:05 -0400 From: Bob Johnson Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 2 Sincere thanks to all who participated in answering Question 1. Your replies have been sent to the members of the PRRT&HS Archives Committee for their information and discussion. Question 2 - background. There are many types of materials and information in the PRRT&HS collection at Lewistown. One challenge is to organize this material and make an index to enable users to be able to find what they want, once our Archive is open. Among the types of materials are: photographs (primarily locomotives, but some cars), drawings of locomotives and cars on microfilm, blueprint and other copies of drawings of locomotives and cars, drawings of bridges and buildings, maps, track charts, alignment and profile drawings, valuation section maps, other drawings depicting locations and right of way, and files of specifications and correspondence related to various locomotive and car classes. What level of documentation is likely to be needed to help you find different types of materials likely to be of interest to you? How detailed does it have to be? If you have done research at Hagley or at the PA State Archives, what do you want from an index or finding aid? What would you change, if it were possible to do so? As before, it will be a great help if you will identify yourselves as PRRT&HS members or non-members. It will also be appreciated if you will let us know whether or not you have used RR archives, such as the Hagley or the PA State Archives before. Also, to enable further discussion of your thoughts, you are invited to send your replies to the list. Thanks. Bob Johnson, Chairman PRRT&HS Archive Committee ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:03:58 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Photos of PRR motors Hi everyone, I recently came across this site which has some very cool PRR photos, in particular PRR motors. Has several shots of "modernized" DD-1 motors, and also the elusive R-1 at Manhattan Transfer. http://donross.railspot.com/ Enjoy - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:57:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 2 In a message dated 7/21/2001 3:55:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bobjohnson@alltel.net writes: << What level of documentation is likely to be needed to help you find different types of materials likely to be of interest to you? How detailed does it have to be? If you have done research at Hagley or at the PA State Archives, what do you want from an index or finding aid? What would you change, if it were possible to do so?>> Member, have done research at Hagley. It would be helpful to have a "shelf list" -- a descriptive list of all the boxes, etc. at the level of a few sentences, and a cross-reference by loco or car class number, location, structure type, etc. In other words, one could go to a single place that lists all items of relevance to H-6 class locomotives, or Shreve, OH. Lee Rainey ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:43:22 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 2 Bob: PRRT&HS member, have done PRR research at State Archives, Hagley Museum, Railroad Museum of Pa., Smithsonian Institution, St. Louis Mercantile Library. To maximize the usefulness of resources, cross-indexing is a must. At some locations, I have found a file under one name or topic that contains details about something else. For example, I once ran across a file on PRR office cars but it also listed a retired PRR president's usage of same (post-retirement) and the occasions, purposes, and dates of that usage. But the file was merely marked "office cars." Anyone researching that president's life and administration would be interested in knowing that he was given privileges to use the fleet after his retirement, that he exercised that privilege, and the reasons for which he did so. Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 07:41:34 -0400 From: Rail Classics Subject: [PRR] Hello; We at Rail Classics www.railclassics.com have posted photos of our F-38 Heavy Duty Flat Car and Load Pilot Samples, for the PRR, PC and Conrail Versions. Take a look as we believe you will find this model to be worth the wait. Thank you, EDDY at RAIL CLASSICS www.railclassics.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 09:36:56 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors While not a paint expert except when it comes to paying the bill, I can tell you that U-Tech, a respected automotive finish manufacturer, has duplicated the Dupont color for us in painting the E-8s. The u-tech # is 5505 for Tuscan. It is a perfect match. We buy it from a local auto refinishing distributer. Bennett Levin Carl Izzo wrote: > > On July 18, 2001 10:12 AM Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Mark Franke wrote: > > > Carl > > so is DuPont 234-32550 available in any form commercially ? > > Thanks > > Mark Franke > > > Hi Mark: > > The formulation, DuPont 234-32550, probably exists. Since the PRR does not > exist, they would probably make the paint for you as a "special" with a > "premium" selling price. Without knowing for sure, the minimum order may > be 50 gallons. However it won't cost you anything to ask. > > Carl P. Izzo > Industrial Paint Consultant > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:51:32 -0400 Thanks for the information, Bennett. That's more like what the list wants to hear. Color matching is easy if you know how. It is really an art. When I needed a color matched, I had one of my technicians do it. He was a Wizard. My wife would send me to work with a scrap of upholstery fabric and this guy matched five gallons of wall paint to one of the colors on it. Carl P. Izzo PRRT&HS #832 Carl P. Izzo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bennett Levin" To: "Carl Izzo" Cc: "Mark Franke" ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors > While not a paint expert except when it comes to paying the bill, I can > tell you that U-Tech, a respected automotive finish manufacturer, has > duplicated the Dupont color for us in painting the E-8s. The u-tech # is > 5505 for Tuscan. It is a perfect match. We buy it from a local auto > refinishing distributer. > > Bennett Levin > > > > Carl Izzo wrote: > > > > On July 18, 2001 10:12 AM Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Mark Franke wrote: > > > > > Carl > > > so is DuPont 234-32550 available in any form commercially ? > > > Thanks > > > Mark Franke > > > > > Hi Mark: > > > > The formulation, DuPont 234-32550, probably exists. Since the PRR does not > > exist, they would probably make the paint for you as a "special" with a > > "premium" selling price. Without knowing for sure, the minimum order may > > be 50 gallons. However it won't cost you anything to ask. > > > > Carl P. Izzo > > Industrial Paint Consultant > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:46:09 EDT Subject: [PRR] Wilmington #2 at last Finally the last shipments of the Wilmington Clock Tower went out this week. For those of you receiving your shipments, expect two boxes. We have included with this shipment a base for the first building along with a base for this one. This will give you the complete footprint when joined together and the parts for the last installment will fall into place. The base is being sent at no charge to all you modelers. Do not glue the two base sections together yet. Check the web site for photos and construction tips as we will post more as time goes on. www.trainstuffllc.com Dayna Trainstuff LLC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:46:30 -0400 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] Re: [ldsig] Sanborn maps > > To those PRR listers following the Sanborn Map thread, I managed to come up > with this info. http://cat.libraries.psu.edu/uhtbin/cgisirsi/r7CJJGxQW0/214950284/18/XPER/XAUTHOR/Sanborn+fire+insurance+maps.+Pennsylvania+[1884-1950].#holdings Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling the C&PD in HO > | -----Original Message----- > | From: Andy Sperandeo [mailto:asperandeo@mrmag.com] > | Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 3:26 PM > | To: ldsig@yahoogroups.com > | Subject: Re: [ldsig] Sanborn maps > | > | I don't know about getting these maps online, but the September MODEL > | RAILROADER (on the way to you now) includes a letter from Sam Shipley of > | ProQuest Information and Learning. That company owns the rights to > | distribute digital copies of the maps and is offering Digital Sanborn Maps > | as a product for libraries. Individuals will be able to access > | them through > | participating public and university libraries - according to Mr. Shipley > | all public libraries in the state of Texas already have the maps for that > | state. The letter in MR includes a phone number for librarians to call for > | information, and I'll repeat that ProQuest wants to deal exclusively with > | libraries. > | > | Best wishes, > | > | Andy > | > | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: [PRR] Meteor Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:37:15 -0400 >From iwon.com news: "Meteor Shower Reports Abound Along East Coast ... People living near Montoursville, Pennsylvania, a rural community 130 miles northwest of Philadelphia, reported hearing a loud explosion after seeing the unidentified object..." Lets hope Bowser survived :-) --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR Roundhouse in Mahoningtown PA Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:13:43 -0400 Group, If anybody would happen to have any pictures etc.... on this Yard & roundhouse would you please contact me I am planning my Layout of the New Castle - Youngstown area of the PRR. I would most definitely like to do the Mahoningtown yard area since my grandfater was a track walker for the PRR between Mahoningtown & Lowellville OH. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I will be off to the local libraries to try to gather more info. Thanks in advance Sam Vastano _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:53:45 EDT Subject: [PRR] Archive data needs In a message dated 7/17/01 1:14:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << To introduce each question, I will give a little background information and then pose a question for discussion. It would be very helpful to the Committee (Joe Acri, Chris Baer, Bob Johnson and Paul Schopp) if you will provide a little information about yourself when you answer. Please identify yourself as a PRRT&HS member or nonmember and also how often you have used various existing archives: frequent user - several times a year, occasional user - once a year or less, or non-user. Question 1 - background. There are two primary methods for describing the contents of a series or subseries within a collection. The more common method is to use one or a few paragraphs to describe the contents in relatively general terms. This should give a "flavor" of what is likely to be found in the collection, but generally doesn't describe things down to the level of individual items. The other method is more in the form of a list of documents, such as a computer database. It has been suggested that the list form is more appropriate for such items as drawings, whereas the paragraph format is often preferred for files. Which form of inventory works best for you, and why? >> My name is Rick Tipton, I've been a Society member for almost 30 years, and I consult in the area of relational databases in distribution systems. I happen to write or prototype most of my work in MS Access, but recognize that a less complex and expensive relational database could be perfectly satisfactory for the Society's archive work. Among other considerations, Access seems to have a steep learning curve for many users. In other recent experience, I've been lead person on the indexing and preparation for archive of the late Jack Fravert's collection, a lifelong assemblage of photos, hardware, and paper railroadiana focused on the railroads of Louisville Kentucky, especially L&N and PRR. A significant fraction of this estate, including some 40,000 slides and a similar-size negative collection that Jack shot from 1946 to 1998, is earmarked for the University of Louisville's archives, which already contain significant railroad holdings from the L&N and the Kentucky & Indiana Terminal Railroad. I've been working on this project with the aid of Charles Castner, former L&N/CSX public relations director, L&NHS president emeritus, and now a volunteer in the U of L archives. Our indexing of the Jack Fravert collection has been and continues to be an aggressive attempt to show useful employment of MS Access toward a searchable database to serve the rail historian. YES TO GROUP DESCRIPTIONS To answer the question you posed, my answer would be "yes" to both options. With a relational database, it's perfectly reasonable to organize the sub-collections as logical groups, each with a text description of origin, contents, era, and approximate size in cubic feet, kilobytes, or other measure. One advantage of this is the ability right away to put together a description of holdings for the "public" so they have a clearer idea of what's in the archive that might be of use to them. This might lead to a formal or informal priority on databasing the different segments in detail, coming from prospective users' feedback. YES TO DETAILED INDEXING OF ITEMS Once a sub-collection has a general but somewhat detailed verbal description of its contents, it's desirable to start inside each of these sub-collections with an indexing scheme such as listing each photo's subject, location, date, and the class and road number of each engine and car discernable. A relational database is handy here, as the number of engines identifiable might be from zero to a large number. But notice that it's very helpful to "play" with a sub-collection's data for a bit before committing massive resources. For example, it may be a good idea to also index lineside photos by milepost if known, which implies setting up a hierarchy of milepost, line, and division in the relational database. Even if such location data is not known for part of a collection, it would still enhance computer searchability of the rest greatly. Another case of enhanced searchability might be the reporting mark, paint code, and paint date from car roster photos. This could lead to studies of painting programs and repair programs by class by year. The reason I point out the desirability of "playing" with the collection and the data it generates is that it's really tough to anticipate all data needs in advance -- just as it's hard to successfully predict all the uses for this data. A little experimentation in advance will help capture some more of these needs. ONE DATABASE As has been pointed out elsewhere, one of the key goals of databasing is for all info on the collection to be placed on one database, for ease of searching. We can easily guess that much indexing work has already been done in "flatfile" form, probably in spreadsheets but maybe some in word processor documents or even tabbed text files. Rather than lose these well-meant and undoubtedly hard-won efforts, it's important to convert all such assets into one relational database format; missing data can probably be captured at some later time, prioritized by its importance to current goals of the Society or its members. However, such converted data needs to be tested and spot-checked back against the collection to make sure its codes and information is clearly understood, and adjusted if necessary so its codes mean the same as those applied inside the constraints and definitions of the relational database. DATA DICTIONARY NEEDED Not mentioned in your question, but vital to the success of a large-scale effort, will be a data dictionary. For example, the data dictionary will not only validate what car classes are recognized by this system, but will regularize their form -- in other words, a specific gondola is a G26C, not a G-26C nor a G26c. All kinds of variables need to be defined in the data dictionary; some by listing the valid choices, but many by a verbal description of what a field means and does not mean. An example of this might be a locomotive built date. This would be defined as the date the loco was completed at its built location, not the date it left its builder, or arrived on the railroad, or was installed in service. It's important to build the data dictionary ahead of most of the other work, so it available to guide the efforts of all persons inputting to the records. Remember, the goal here is to design consistency into the contents of the database, so that words and codes mean the same thing in one part of the database as in another, and so that a field in this database means the same thing whether you are inputting it in Harrisburg or Long Beach. Sorry for the long-winded exposition -- hope these thoughts help Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Modeling the Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:00:53 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Walthers Coaches I just picked up a new Walthers coach last nite. Its great to see someone finally doing plastic passenger cars right! - The trucks are metal, the axles nylon(?) They pick up off all 8 wheels and are pre-wired for lights (sold separately) - The roof is removable to allow access to paint or modify the interiors - The interiors are complete including the rest room fixtures (A minor flaw, the seats are "prismatic" all the way to the floor. Passengers can not stow there luggage under the seat. Oh, Sorry, only airline passengers do that ;-) - The sides are removable to make painting the interiors easier. - The underbody is complete and made of separate parts. Will Walthers be selling these and the trucks separately? :-))))) - The detail is gorgeous! - The diaphragms operate - The windows are flush - Hand grabs are separate wire parts to be installed by the buyer. At least that's my guess. My car was missing the parts bag, but Walthers includes a warranty and instructions for dealing with such problems - no charge! Why am I cross posting the info on this Santa Fe car to PRR lists? Sorry, no its not particularly close to a P85H(Congo car). But it is only one half window off from the C&O Chessie cars which were acquired by the SAL and ran in NY-Fla trains over the PRR. I purchased a SF car since my dealer doesn't do undecs except on special order. The SF lettering came off easily with Solvaset (another plus!). But don't rub too hard. I started to remove some of the silver paint as well :-( My only complaint is that these are divided window cars. The window divider is cast into the "glass" but the divider is not painted. IF Walthers will also be selling various parts, I may try cutting the extra half wind in and filling it with a piece cut from a separately purchased window strip. -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:03:17 -0400 From: Thomas Mahon Subject: [PRR] H-32 Questions I am assembling a Funaro & Camerlengo resin kit of an H-32. The instructions are sparse and I have no ready access to photos of the car. I have hit the drawings pages on KC, but my problems are: 1. The "bolsters". The diagrams show how to file them but where they are positioned on the ends. 2. The center sill has a cap on it that forms a "t" from the discharges chutes to halfway to the end of the sill. I am presuming that this is correct and not flash. 3. Source(s) of decals. I checked my Champ catalog and they have three sets listed but the diagrams show the two and three bay covered hoppers. 4. Any other insights on the assembly of this kit would be appreciated. Thanks. Tom Mahon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:36:58 -0400 Subject: [PRR] We're Back!!! From: Jerry Britton Sorry about the cold sweats you have all undoubtedly experienced, having not fed your addictions from the various lists... Our ISP, Epix, rendered us unreachable during a DSL system upgrade Monday evening. I discovered it at 6 a.m. Tuesday morning and promptly reported it. Three days is WAY TOO LONG to be down, as a business, and I have demanded a written explanation. None of the corporate officers are taking calls at this point, so I suspect they are consulting their lawyers, as more than one business customer has mentioned "negligence" in their complaints. A TelCo employee told me "off the record" that the problem was at the location where the DSL line at the switch office connects to the ISP's router. Since Epix is owned by Commonwealth Telephone, the liability is all neatly in one family! Anyway, the important thing is WE ARE BACK!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:47:40 EDT Subject: [PRR] Blame the Beano? Did your provider claim any connection to the B &O tunnel fire? What a mess - Work for generations of Lawyers not yet born: did the derailment and fire cause the waterline break and the street collapse OR did a waterline break cause the derailment; fire and street collapse? Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: [PRR] X43 Box Car Inquiry Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:43:26 -0400 My 10/54 Equipment Register lists three different groups of Pennsy X43 box cars; X43, X43A and X43B. The spotting and modelng features of the A and B subclasses has been well documented but I can't ever recall seeing a picture or info. on the plain X43 group of cars (numbered 603500-603999). Can anyone provide info. on the major spotting features of this group of cars (roof type, door type etc.)? Thanks in advance for any info. that can be provided. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:31:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] X43 Box Car Inquiry Frank, Ends are 4/3/1 dreadnaught ends, the roof is Stanray Diagonal panels, the door was 7-foot light weight Youngstown Corrugated, 10 panel riveted sides and it had tabbed sills. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:31:34 -0400 Subject: [PRR] TrainStuff Wilmington Station Model Available!!! From: Jerry Britton I (through "Merchandise Service") have available "part" of the Wilmington Station model as produced in resin by TrainStuff. This model was/is a sold-out subscription series. Intended to be released in three installments, the first installment shipped last year. It was the Main Station Building. "Merchandise Service" had one customer whose credit card was declined. When contacted, it was learned that domestic problems were being encountered and the credit card had been cancelled. A check was sent in for payment. Now the second installment, the Clock Tower Building, has been released. When we contacted this same customer, they said "I'm not interested" and hung up. Two subsequent attempts yielded immediate hangups. That leaves us with one partial subscription available for sale. Hmmmm. If you look at the photos on the TrainStuff web site (http://www.trainstuffllc.com) you will see what the Clock Tower Building includes. For someone not modeling Wilmington, per se, this would be a nice station building on its own. We are seeking to place this second installment (with a commitment for the future third installment) into a modeler's hands without the first building. If anyone is interested, please contact me off-list. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:01:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors I e-mailed DuPont through their website. Below is the response regarding DGLE. According to DuPont the Badger paint is reportedly a match. I did not ask about Tuscan of buff, but it would appear the by dropping the first three numbers, the paint is available using the last set of numbers. Only difference is this is now an Imron polyurethane rather than a Duco enamel. Rich Orr Mr. Orr, Thank you for the additional information. The color number you 243-32550 is the color used on the PRR. This color is available in Imron Polyurethane. The number you would need to order is 32550X. I understand that Badger paint has matched this color so you may want to contact them for more information. Hope this helps. Thank You, Len Scheurle Technical Specialist / DuPont Performance Coatings LIONVILLE, PA USA >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:19:08 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Steam Years Volume 3 -- First Impressions From: Jerry Britton I received my order of "Pennsy Steam Years, Volume 3" today.... The production quality is excellent, per the two recent "Trackside" releases...excellent choice of enamel paper and quality of color; Mostly new shots, but a few color shots previously published in b/w; a lot of branch action, including the coal branches; Excellent views of the tender of a J-1 (p.61 and p. 65); a lot of J coverage, period!; Heavy K coverage in New Jersey and Long Island, more than I prefer; South end of Denholm throat (p.111); M-1a action at Cove. Another winner from Morning Sun Books, but not at the head of the class. Still, should be part of everyone's library. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (David Hopson) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Steam Years Vol. 3 Hello List, I got my copy of "Pennsy Steam Years:3" yesterday and I wasn't thrilled with the book. Too many "used" photos from other books from the past. "PRR North of Wash D.C." and "Trackside: Under Pennsy Wires" are great books. This is not a great book. There are a few good photos in this book but maybe it's just me. Scale of 1 to 10, 5 should cover it. Just my two cents worth! Dave Hopson PRRT&HS# 6593 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:23:17 EDT Subject: [PRR] X43, A, B facts are slipperier than you think In a message dated 7/27/01 1:12:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Subject: X43 Box Car Inquiry From: "parkvarieties" Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:43:26 -0400 My 10/54 Equipment Register lists three different groups of Pennsy X43 box cars; X43, X43A and X43B. The spotting and modelng features of the A and B subclasses has been well documented but I can't ever recall seeing a picture or info. on the plain X43 group of cars (numbered 603500-603999). Can anyone provide info. on the major spotting features of this group of cars (roof type, door type etc.)? Thanks in advance for any info. that can be provided. Frank Brua >> Hope someone can respond - my life is in moving boxes this week. OTOH, I do remember a caveat from some research into this subject -- if one examines enough photos, one can determine that at least one of these subclasses is nonuniform. Beware of multiple roofs or doors or end designs in at least one of these groups. This as-delivered diversity does not count the 60's-era sidesill reinforcements, which varied in depth and length depending on who was doing the modification -- apparently some of these cars had a problem with underframe failure at the doorway. There is some evidence (but not enough to convict) that some of these cars were not really new, but may have been reconditioned after some years of service on the B&O, maybe. Bottom line, these three subclasses, usually reported as built by ACF, Pressed Steel, and Pressed Steel's Mt. Vernon works, offer great ambiguity. I find that different authorities, normally knowledgeable and reliable, will offer varying info on the same sub classes -- probably because they're each working from one or two pictures out of the class, and assuming that all cars in the class are alike. Hint: this mess -- worse than the ambiguities and missing info normal for vendor cars -- is deserving of a good article, but one based on a massive search of (all known) photographs. Modeling hint -- if ever there was a place to model from photographs, this is it. But remember, you'll only get correct the side of the car you can see. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Modeling the Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Test Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 07:51:40 -0500 This is a test Ted ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:14:38 -0400 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: Re: [PRR] Test And, did we pass? -=- Bob Ted Andrews wrote: > > This is a test > > Ted > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 02:26:00 -0400 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] MODELLING QUESTION I am modelling a GATX, 8,000 Gallon, Tank Car, built in the late 1030's. The car is painted BLACK and the GATX lettering should be in WHITE (I think!!) The question is . . . As best I can determine GATX stands for GENERAL AMERICAN TRANSPORTATION CORP. Do the words GENERAL AMERICAN TRANSPORTATION CORP. appear above the GATX and the number on the side of the car?? (Or anywhere else on the car) Also, can anyone give me a numbering series for this GATX car in this era?? I am familiar with UTLX tank car lettering and UNION TANK CAR CO. appears above the UTLX and the number on the side of the car in the early versions of the lettering schemes. Any help will be appreciated . . . THANKS in advance! DICK POOLE Dpoole17@PAnetwork.com -- DICK POOLE -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] MODELLING QUESTION Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 08:44:42 -0500 Richard--You asked: > > The question is . . . As best I can determine GATX stands for GENERAL AMERICAN TRANSPORTATION CORP. Do the words GENERAL AMERICAN TRANSPORTATION CORP. appear above the GATX and the number on the side of the car?? (Or anywhere else on the car) Also, can anyone give me a numbering series for this GATX car in this era?? > Here is a quick and dirty response. I just completed a factory painted Proto2000 HO model of one of these cars. P2K is almost alone among the manufacturers in trying to paint/letter their models accurately. Therefore, although I am not absolutely certain the info is correct, it "probably" is. Lettering is in white with lines above and below GATX, and the words GENERAL AMERICAN TRANSPORTATION CORP. do not appear. Car number is 17556, with a reweigh/repaint date of 11-45 . Have fun. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 22:23:45 EDT Subject: [PRR] more X43, A, B, & C detail Guys, Frank write: << My 10/54 Equipment Register lists three different groups of Pennsy X43 box cars; X43, X43A and X43B. The spotting and modeling features of the A and B subclasses has been well documented but I can't ever recall seeing a picture or info. on the plain X43 group of cars (numbered 603500-603999). Can anyone provide info. on the major spotting features of this group of cars (roof type, door type, etc.)? Thanks in advance for any info. that can be provided. Frank Brua >> Then Rick reminds us... <> Rick is correct, first determine the era and then search for as many photos as you can and model from that. Many cars were retired in their standard confirguration with no door sill modifications, others were. But for a good general idea of what was going on at the time, the Pennsy called on two car builders to supplement the X26 and X29 upgrade program with new cars. There were 4 classes involved. The X43 cars were riveted 10 panel sides with a 4-3-1 (AKA 4-3-R) dreadnaught end, tab sills, Stanray Diagonal panel roof, 7-foot door opening, no overhanging eve on the side or end... The X43A was a 12 panel (AC&F) welded side car with the 4-3-1 dreadnaught end and the Stanray diagonal panel roof with a 7-foot door opening, again no overhanging eve and a tab sill Youngstown Lightweight corrugated door... The X43B was a return to Press Steel Car Co. and repeat of the earlier car except that these cars were delivered with the Superior 7-panel door and often replaced with the five panel door... The X43C was a new spec. for the PRR and the AC&F as the doors now went to an 8-foot opening. It was a riveted 10-panel side with a Stanray Diagonal panel roof, 4-3-1 dreadnaught ends, still no overhanging eve (as on the paralleling X29D program), and a tab sill (the X44 introduces the deep sill), the 8 foot doors were delivered as Youngstown Corrugated from all the photos I have seen, but were often replaced in rebuild programs with Superior Panel Doors. >From the modeling side I was hoping that Branchline was going to be the answer and I was ready to supply them with whatever they needed on their cars... With the tooling being suspect, I am not sure what to think, I guess I will go back to modeling them from the C&BT Shops kits and upgrade where needed. I will do the X43C from the Red Caboose Kit and perhaps use the old Front Range kits I hoarded for the earlier classes and make 6-foot doors into 7-foot doors, however the ends are not accurately the correct ends but oh well I will never tell... The article is started and I will call on Richard Burg to supply some of the photos, a couple from my brother and concentrate on accurate models. The tough part is determining what was going on under the car, whether there were three lateral support stringers of two as is the case with many post war cars. I think 2. but I will research it and many modelers will never care about a detail you will have to pick the car up to see ... can't blame them either ... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 06:19:22 -0400 Subject: [PRR] HO Items on eBay From: Jerry Britton Just a heads up, I've got a few HO scale items up for auction on eBay, ending today. Of interest to PRR and Reading modelers. Brass, P1K, P2K, Stewart Hobbies, etc. Seller ID: keystonecrossings This URL "should" work: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&us erid=keystonecrossings&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:42:18 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] MODELLING QUESTION Dick Poole asks: >I am modelling a GATX, 8,000 Gallon, Tank Car, built in the late 1030's. >The car is painted BLACK and the GATX lettering should be in WHITE (I >think!!) The question is . . . As best I can determine GATX stands for >GENERAL AMERICAN TRANSPORTATION CORP. Do the words GENERAL AMERICAN >TRANSPORTATION CORP. appear above the GATX and the number on the side of >the car?? (Or anywhere else on the car) Also, can anyone give me a >numbering series for this GATX car in this era?? It depends on what car this is, of course ...Is it a Type 21 (P2K), or a Type 27 (Intermountain), brass (in which case what type) or are you scratchbuilding? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:43:40 -0400 From: Bob Johnson Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 3 Sincere thanks to all who participated in answering Questions 1 and 2. Your replies have been sent to the members of the PRRT&HS Archives Committee for their information and discussion. Questions 1 and 2 were posted on July 16 and 21. The purpose of posing these questions on the list is to give you the opportunity to make your wishes known to the Committee. It's not too late to answer earlier questions. You can look them up in the list's archives. Question 3 - background. Just as there are many types of materials and information in the PRRT&HS collection at Lewistown, so there are a number of different uses people might make of the collection. Among the types of materials are: photographs (primarily locomotives, but some cars), drawings of locomotives and cars on microfilm, blueprint and other copies of drawings of locomotives and cars, drawings of bridges and buildings, maps, track charts, alignment and profile drawings, valuation section maps, other drawings depicting locations and right of way, and files of specifications and correspondence related to various locomotive and car classes. In your opinion who are the likely users of the materials in the PRRT&HS Archives at Lewistown (once we are open), and what will they use the information for? As before, it will be a great help if you will identify yourselves as PRRT&HS members or non-members. It will also be appreciated if you will let us know whether or not you have used RR archives, such as the Hagley or the PA State Archives before. Also, to enable further discussion of your thoughts, you are invited to send your replies to the list. Thanks. Bob Johnson, Chairman PRRT&HS Archive Committee ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:20:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 3 From: Jerry Britton On 7/30/01 4:43 PM, Bob Johnson at (bobjohnson@alltel.net) wrote: > Question 3 - background. Just as there are many types of materials and > information in the PRRT&HS collection at Lewistown, so there are a > number of different uses people might make of the collection. Among the > types of materials are: photographs (primarily locomotives, but some > cars), drawings of locomotives and cars on microfilm, blueprint and > other copies of drawings of locomotives and cars, drawings of bridges > and buildings, maps, track charts, alignment and profile drawings, > valuation section maps, other drawings depicting locations and right of > way, and files of specifications and correspondence related to various > locomotive and car classes. > > In your opinion who are the likely users of the materials in the PRRT&HS > Archives at Lewistown (once we are open), and what will they use the > information for? There will always be historians seeking all types of info on the PRR, though the numbers will dwindle. Similarly, those retired PRR employees who are members of the Society will also dwindle. They are a significant percentage of the Society's membership and the Society cannot afford to fall below 3,000 members if it wishes to sustain The Keystone in its current form. My point: Modelers. The only way the Society will continue to exist over the long haul -- 10 years from now and beyond -- will be through modelers. At the annual meeting Dick Adams asked for a show of hands as to how many present considered themselves "historians". About 20% raised their hands. Then he asked for the "modelers". Heck, it was darn near the entire room! I don't think that was the response that he was expecting. But perhaps it sheds some light on the Society's marketing! Anyway, it is MODELERS who will make the greatest use of the archives. While there are tons of photos already available of locos and rolling stock, I believe what will come into play will be photos of structures, plans of structures, valuation maps (more so than track charts), employee timetables, etc. I'm sure there are a lot of others out there who will agree with me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Roundhouse in Mahoningtown PA Sam, Boy, Good Luck trying to find pics of this area in question. It seems the only thing available is roster type pics of steamers with little else showing in the background. I have some pics showing the coaling dock but locos are the main focus of the photo. As you may know this area was a storage area for Class N1 2-10-2's during the winter months when the lakes were frozen over. Several years ago we investegated the area. The outline of the roundhouse can be seen but thats about it. Have yo checked the New Castle Library? It sure would have been something to see this area in operation in its heyday. Sam and any other locals to this aea. On Sunday Aug 19th Mahoningtown is holding its annual festival days. The local chapter of the NRHS (The Beaver Valley Junction) will take part. This club, I volunteered my help, has been restoring ex-B&O Tower "UN". It has been moved, yes moved, from the B&O, now the CSX main in West Pittsburg to its present location on Cherry St. in Mahoningtown. This site is the ex-PRR line to Farrell. During the festival the BVJ Historical Society will have speeder and hand car rides if all goes as planned. The OK to run came today from the local bussnesses that own the rail. A Chop Nose GP-9 should also be available to pull ex-PRR N8. I plan on bring some artifacts for display including a K4 Bell, Whistle and other neat items. It could get pretty loud as a handful of Diesel horns will be there too. So I invite anyone in the area to come on down and view the B&O Tower on PRR grounds and enjoy the short rides and sites...... Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:49:51 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Track assignment Hi list members, I'm doing a bit of layout design, and I've got a question regarding PRR design practice. In areas of four-track main line (in particular I'm thinking of the trackage on the former New York division, which is now the present-day the NE corridor route, say in New Jersey between Newark & Elizabeth...) were the track directions normally assigned such that the two westbound tracks were adjacent, and the two eastbound tracks were adjacent, in this manner: <============ <============ ============> ============> or were they normally intermixed, in this manner: <============ ============> <============ ============> My feeble memory is telling me the first choice is the correct one, but I'm not 100% sure... Can someone confirm? - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:36:33 -0400 From: Bob Johnson Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Archives Question 3 Jerry, Thanks for your response. I agree that modelers dominate the Society membership and are likely to be the main users of archives. However, this is nothing new. It was always that way. My only surprise with Dick Adams' poll was that so many people identified themselves as primarily historians. I expected far fewer than 20%. Back in April 1971 the Society began using the current style of membership application, with a survey of interests on the back. I offered to tabulate the answers for the Society and did so for 1971 through 1975 (Member Numbers 264 to 777). People joining were asked to check all the interests that apply. Among these were "modeling" and "prototype". This question was answered by 455 out of the 514 new members (over 88%). It should be no surprise that 73% checked both modeling and prototype. Modeling was checked by 16% and prototype by 11%. That means 89% of those answering the question in 1971 to 1975 indicated an interest in modeling. And, 84% indicated an interest in the prototype. I think many of our members are interested in reading articles about aspects of the PRR that they have no intention of modeling. I know I am. By the way, these results were given to Dick Adams, when he became Editor. I doubt that he was surprised in any way at the large interest in modeling. He was a PRR modeler himself before deciding to concentrate on early steam locomotive research. I'm not so sure that the number of historians will dwindle, unless interest in the PRR eventually dwindles. Our "historians" are not, for the most part, professional historians. They usually started out as modelers or would-be modelers, seeking information to help them build better models. I personally know quite a few Society members (including myself) who found this quest for prototype information to be an interesting and absorbing hobby to the point where it crowded out the actual model building. I think this process will continue with enough people to provide a supply of "historians", though they will continue to be a small minority. Back when I was the Editor of "The Keystone", one of our members wrote to me that the historians write the articles for the magazine, but the modelers pay the bills with their memberships. That was true then and remains true today, a point worth remembering. However, it's also true now, as it was then, that the Society or its Editor can't force people to write particular types of articles. Authors tend to research and write what interests them. Once again, thanks for expressing your opinions and thanks for providing this forum for such discussions. Sincerely, Bob Johnson Jerry Britton wrote: > There will always be historians seeking all types of info on the PRR, though > the numbers will dwindle. > > Similarly, those retired PRR employees who are members of the Society will > also dwindle. They are a significant percentage of the Society's membership > and the Society cannot afford to fall below 3,000 members if it wishes to > sustain The Keystone in its current form. > > My point: Modelers. > > The only way the Society will continue to exist over the long haul -- 10 > years from now and beyond -- will be through modelers. > > At the annual meeting Dick Adams asked for a show of hands as to how many > present considered themselves "historians". About 20% raised their hands. > Then he asked for the "modelers". Heck, it was darn near the entire room! I > don't think that was the response that he was expecting. But perhaps it > sheds some light on the Society's marketing! > > Anyway, it is MODELERS who will make the greatest use of the archives. While > there are tons of photos already available of locos and rolling stock, I > believe what will come into play will be photos of structures, plans of > structures, valuation maps (more so than track charts), employee timetables, > etc. > > I'm sure there are a lot of others out there who will agree with me. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:20:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Track assignment From: Jerry Britton On 7/30/01 10:49 PM, Claus Schlund at (schlund@cwnet.com) wrote: > I'm doing a bit of layout design, and > I've got a question regarding PRR design > practice. > > In areas of four-track main line (in particular > I'm thinking of the trackage on the former New > York division, which is now the present-day > the NE corridor route, say in New Jersey between > Newark & Elizabeth...) were the track directions > normally assigned such that the two > westbound tracks were adjacent, and the two > eastbound tracks were adjacent, in this manner: > > <============ > <============ > ============> > ============> > > or were they normally intermixed, > in this manner: > > <============ > ============> > <============ > ============> > > My feeble memory is telling me the first choice > is the correct one, but I'm not 100% sure... > > Can someone confirm? > Claus: It "seems" that by default the first model is true. Furthermore, by "default", the center two tracks were used for passenger trains. However, for any given area, you need to consult the appropriate division Employee Timetable. There were lots of variations. For instance, at VIEW interlocking, near the east end of the Middle Division, trains switched as follows: F<---------------------- ------------------F P>-----/-\-------------- ------------------

---/ \------------ ------------------>P VIEW BANKS ROCKVILLE The tracks actually reduced to three through the interlocking. This setup separated the passenger and freight mains as they approached Harrisburg from the west. Another key location was Altoona. All passenger trains had to cutover to tracks on the north side (3 & 4) in order to pass through the station. However, they needed to be back on tracks 2 & 3 for station stops at Gallitzin and Cresson. According to the Middle Division ETT's, this was done at ALTO, just west of the Altoona station. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:24:10 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Track assignment Between Newark and UNION (Rahway) the outer two tracks were used for commuters. It was necessary in order to access the platforms. Through freight used the center tracks. There was a flyover at LANE tower (or is it ELMORA) for access to Waverly Yard by freight trains. Between LANE and UNION there were 6 tracks! Two more tracks were added outside for way freight access to the many industries in the area. These tracks went behind the commuter platforms at Rahway. The line is elevated all the way and passenger access to the platforms was by stairs from the street below. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 7/30/01 10:49 PM, Claus Schlund at (schlund@cwnet.com) wrote: > > > I'm doing a bit of layout design, and > > I've got a question regarding PRR design > > practice. > > > > In areas of four-track main line (in particular > > I'm thinking of the trackage on the former New > > York division, which is now the present-day > > the NE corridor route, say in New Jersey between > > Newark & Elizabeth...) were the track directions > > normally assigned such that the two > > westbound tracks were adjacent, and the two > > eastbound tracks were adjacent, in this manner: > > > > <============ > > <============ > > ============> > > ============> > > > > or were they normally intermixed, > > in this manner: > > > > <============ > > ============> > > <============ > > ============> > > > > My feeble memory is telling me the first choice > > is the correct one, but I'm not 100% sure... > > > > Can someone confirm? > > > Claus: > > It "seems" that by default the first model is true. Furthermore, by > "default", the center two tracks were used for passenger trains. > > However, for any given area, you need to consult the appropriate division > Employee Timetable. There were lots of variations. > > For instance, at VIEW interlocking, near the east end of the Middle > Division, trains switched as follows: > > F<---------------------- ------------------ P<----\---/------------- ------------------>F > P>-----/-\-------------- ------------------

F>---/ \------------ ------------------>P > VIEW BANKS ROCKVILLE > > The tracks actually reduced to three through the interlocking. This setup > separated the passenger and freight mains as they approached Harrisburg from > the west. > > Another key location was Altoona. All passenger trains had to cutover to > tracks on the north side (3 & 4) in order to pass through the station. > However, they needed to be back on tracks 2 & 3 for station stops at > Gallitzin and Cresson. According to the Middle Division ETT's, this was done > at ALTO, just west of the Altoona station. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Track assignment Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:36:39 -0400 Jerry: If I recall correctly, on the New York Division, the inner tracks were freight while the outer tracks were passenger to accomodate all the commuter stops. There were actually six tracks in many places, with two additional tracks outside the catenary that served as industrial leads. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Claus Schlund" ; Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Track assignment > On 7/30/01 10:49 PM, Claus Schlund at (schlund@cwnet.com) wrote: > > > I'm doing a bit of layout design, and > > I've got a question regarding PRR design > > practice. > > > > In areas of four-track main line (in particular > > I'm thinking of the trackage on the former New > > York division, which is now the present-day > > the NE corridor route, say in New Jersey between > > Newark & Elizabeth...) were the track directions > > normally assigned such that the two > > westbound tracks were adjacent, and the two > > eastbound tracks were adjacent, in this manner: > > > > <============ > > <============ > > ============> > > ============> > > > > or were they normally intermixed, > > in this manner: > > > > <============ > > ============> > > <============ > > ============> > > > > My feeble memory is telling me the first choice > > is the correct one, but I'm not 100% sure... > > > > Can someone confirm? > > > Claus: > > It "seems" that by default the first model is true. Furthermore, by > "default", the center two tracks were used for passenger trains. > > However, for any given area, you need to consult the appropriate division > Employee Timetable. There were lots of variations. > > For instance, at VIEW interlocking, near the east end of the Middle > Division, trains switched as follows: > > F<---------------------- ------------------ P<----\---/------------- ------------------>F > P>-----/-\-------------- ------------------

F>---/ \------------ ------------------>P > VIEW BANKS ROCKVILLE > > The tracks actually reduced to three through the interlocking. This setup > separated the passenger and freight mains as they approached Harrisburg from > the west. > > Another key location was Altoona. All passenger trains had to cutover to > tracks on the north side (3 & 4) in order to pass through the station. > However, they needed to be back on tracks 2 & 3 for station stops at > Gallitzin and Cresson. According to the Middle Division ETT's, this was done > at ALTO, just west of the Altoona station. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Track assignment Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:15:38 -0700 From: "John Cooper" I wrote up some things on operations near the area in question not too long ago. You might search the archieves using "Union" and "Lane". Interlocking diagrams are available on Mark Bej's site (http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/itlk_phl_nyc_main.html) for everything that has been mentioned on this thread. See: Dock (Newark), Hunter, Lane, Elmora, Union (Rahway). (Elizabeth is between Lane and Elmora) For the NY-Div, the inside tracks were 60 mph tracks generally for freight and outside were 80mph tracks generally for passenger/commuter trains. This was for the 1940's, don't know when speeds got upgraded. Your first diagram below is correct for normal movement, though technically the inner two tracks were signalled for bidirectional movement as far Rahway in the 40's and later all the way to Morris. It was actually quite common to use 2 westbound for freights and 3 eastward for passenger trains. Also note that track 4 between Newark and Hunter was bidirectional as well for Leheigh Valley trains entering for Newark. Union --------------- -------<3>--------------<>----\-----<>-----------<>-------- -------<2>--------------<>---\-\----<>-----------<>-------- --------1>-----/--------->-- \ \ -->------------>-------- --------A>----/ \ \ 6 tracks is between Elmora and Union, not Lane and Union. Outside track only went behind the westbound platform at Rahway, commuter trains needed to be on outside tracks for stops at Linden, North Rahway, and Rahway (eastbound). These 6 tracks were electrified and signaled. Examples of additional unsignaled running tracks sometimes outside the catenary poles would be between Zoo and Shore, and Grundy and Morris. John -----Original Message----- From: Claus Schlund [mailto:schlund@cwnet.com] Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 7:50 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Track assignment Hi list members, I'm doing a bit of layout design, and I've got a question regarding PRR design practice. In areas of four-track main line (in particular I'm thinking of the trackage on the former New York division, which is now the present-day the NE corridor route, say in New Jersey between Newark & Elizabeth...) were the track directions normally assigned such that the two westbound tracks were adjacent, and the two eastbound tracks were adjacent, in this manner: <============ <============ ============> ============> or were they normally intermixed, in this manner: <============ ============> <============ ============> My feeble memory is telling me the first choice is the correct one, but I'm not 100% sure... Can someone confirm? - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:46:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] US visit = Thanks!! Hi, I am back in Belgium after a great and unforgetable 12 day trip through the US. I am not going to give you all the details but here are the most important ones: a guided visit through Penn Station and Penn Station Central Control, a cabride in an AEM-7 modified to Sunnyside yard, a 4 hour visit of the the yard, Q tower and a cabride in an AEM-7 from Penn Station to 30th Street Station Philadelphia all aranged by Bennett Levin, a 2 tour with Bennett, being there when PRR EP20 5711 catched its first sunlight again in Tuscan Red, a visit to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania and some research for my final project, walking through GG1 4935 and Pullman Lotos Club, the Strasburg Railroad, the Red Caboose Motel, a 2 day tour with Bill Seigford in the Harrisburg area, Harris tower, Rockville Bridge, Enola Yard and a 2 and a half day tour with Alexander D. Mitchell IV around Baltimore and down to DC. Thanks Bennett, Bill and Sandy for spending your time with me, driving me around and for the gifts. And thanks to everyone wo helped me during the preparetions of this trip. I will come back because it's a great wonderful country with very friendly people. Till the next time! Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] K4s Question Lists, I recieved a question via an email concerning the K4s. I do not have the answer nor could I find it in any books I have. The person wants to know the minimum radius of curve a K4 could negotiate. Is this curve measured in degrees or is it measured in feet. If the actual radius is known please inform me and supply a source this can be found in. Evidently this info is needed for trackage at the Railroad Memorial Museum in Altoona. Seems they are making plans for the K4.....Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:27:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] Position Light Signals While looking over Don Ball's PRR book for the millionth time I ran across something that shocked me. On page 145 it shows a GP-7 lashup headed up grade. The thing that I had never paid attention to is that the signal on the second track shows red lights! I have seen these on my trips to Altoona before but assumed it was a Conrail thing. How common was this on the PRR? What was the reason for the difference? Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!!