Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 03:42:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Convention report request Hello list, Would it be possible for some of you to post about the PRRT&HS convention as it occurs? I'm further away than most folks, and I'm sure lots of others on the list also couldn't make the convention. Thanks in advance! Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 07:59:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention report request From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/01 6:42 AM, Doug Kisala (dougkisala@yahoo.com) wrote: > Would it be possible for some of you to post about the > PRRT&HS convention as it occurs? > > I'm further away than most folks, and I'm sure lots of > others on the list also couldn't make the convention. > Yes. I live locally and will be commuting to the convention. I will post reports as I return in the evening (after 11 p.m.) or first thing (around 6:30 a.m.) the following morning. In either case, you should be seeing it at breakfast time! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 08:43:56 -0700 (PDT) From: george carey Subject: [PRR] T-1 sighted in Oklahoma The PBS "American Experience" program on Harry Truman made it to Idaho television last night. I was amazed to see that the train Mr. Truman took from Missouri to Oklahoma in 1914 was pulled by a T-1. At least that was the film clip that the director decided was appropriate to accompany the narration. It's wonderful what you can learn from documentaries. GDC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 sighted in Oklahoma Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 09:04:30 -0700 Oops... I knew that the T1 was ahead of it's time, but... Must be on that little-known extension that the PRR ran out to Independence Missouri from Independence Hall, in Philly! Bill Daniels On Tue, 1 May 2001 08:43:56 -0700 (PDT) george carey wrote: > The PBS "American Experience" program on Harry Truman > made it to Idaho television last night. I was amazed > to see that the train Mr. Truman took from Missouri to > Oklahoma in 1914 was pulled by a T-1. At least that > was the film clip that the director decided was > appropriate to accompany the narration. It's wonderful > what you can learn from documentaries. GDC > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message > "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] unsubscribe Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 11:16:27 -0700 Due to a change in e-mail address, I must unsubscribe for a few weeks. Could you please send me the info for me to do this? Thanks, elden ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 14:44:48 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] T-1 Tenders There is a person on AOL looking for information regarding water hatches on T1 tenders. he claims that the photo on p. 221 of Pennsy Power shows a T1 without a water hatch on the tender. I said I found that to be unbelievable that there would be no way except for a scoop to rewater a T1 tender. Can anyone shed any light on this? Thanks, norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] T-1 sighted in Oklahoma Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 14:36:08 -0400 The PRR branchline that carried President Harry Truman from Independence Hall, PA to Independence, MO must of been the "Executive Branch" :P Ted -----Original Message----- From: billd@gci-net.com [mailto:billd@gci-net.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:05 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 sighted in Oklahoma Oops... I knew that the T1 was ahead of it's time, but... Must be on that little-known extension that the PRR ran out to Independence Missouri from Independence Hall, in Philly! Bill Daniels On Tue, 1 May 2001 08:43:56 -0700 (PDT) george carey wrote: > The PBS "American Experience" program on Harry Truman > made it to Idaho television last night. I was amazed > to see that the train Mr. Truman took from Missouri to > Oklahoma in 1914 was pulled by a T-1. At least that > was the film clip that the director decided was > appropriate to accompany the narration. It's wonderful > what you can learn from documentaries. GDC > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message > "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 14:05:25 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 Tenders >There is a person on AOL looking for information regarding water hatches >on T1 tenders. he claims that the photo on p. 221 of Pennsy Power shows a >T1 without a water hatch on the tender. I said I found that to be >unbelievable that there would be no way except for a scoop to rewater a T1 >tender. Can anyone shed any light on this? Thanks, norm Bell AOL, it figures...must be looking at the bowser model ;^) No water hatches? Geez, I can see it now...dead T-1 (no fire) needs water...they have to tow it out to a track pan, somehow lower the scoop and tow it along the pan at 40 mph to fill the tank? I don't think so! Of course there were water hatches on the tops of T-1 tenders...must be a bizzilion photos of them being watered! The hatches were longitudinal, one on each side, under the shrouding. Note that the original shrouding got in the way, and was first removed around the hatch...for a "gap" sided tender, and then removed completely. In addition, the tender shrouding was high enough that standard water collumns on the system were too short, and you can see in several late 1940's shots the use of special higher water collumns were T-1 were watered. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 15:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 Tenders The T1 tender as shown in that photo shows no water hatch. BUT! If you look closely, the tender sides have fold down notches to access the water hatch's. These tenders were so tall they could not use water plugs as is. So The top side sheet had an opening/folddown door to get to the hatch. Look closely at the pic and you will see.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 15:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 Tenders Bruce, Dang!!! you beat me to the answer. Mine will show up shortly on PRR-Talk. Almost word for word!....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 15:14:51 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 sighted in Oklahoma The PBS series The American Experience is notorious for failing(with an F-) when it comes to train coverage. The recent production on American Streamliners shows English scenes. Other productions of European Trains during the wartime show an ERIE boxcar! Offers of help are refused. It pays to watch just to see how screwed up the productions are. "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > > The PRR branchline that carried President Harry Truman from Independence > Hall, PA to Independence, MO must of been the "Executive Branch" :P > > Ted > > -----Original Message----- > From: billd@gci-net.com [mailto:billd@gci-net.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:05 AM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 sighted in Oklahoma > > Oops... > > I knew that the T1 was ahead of it's time, > > but... > > Must be on that little-known extension that the PRR ran out > to Independence Missouri from Independence Hall, in Philly! > > Bill Daniels > > On Tue, 1 May 2001 08:43:56 -0700 (PDT) > george carey wrote: > > The PBS "American Experience" program on Harry Truman > > made it to Idaho television last night. I was amazed > > to see that the train Mr. Truman took from Missouri to > > Oklahoma in 1914 was pulled by a T-1. At least that > > was the film clip that the director decided was > > appropriate to accompany the narration. It's wonderful > > what you can learn from documentaries. GDC > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message > > "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 12:54:37 -0700 From: Dick Lemin Subject: [PRR] Radio Equipped Decals Hello, Can any one tell me if any one makes a decal for the small "Radio Equipped" insignia on the cab of PRR hood diesels, and where can I find them. The sign is a small red square containing a white circle with the words "Radio Equipped" in it. So far I haven't been able to find them, and my local hobby shop hasn't been able to help either. I hope one of you can help. Thank you. Dick Lemin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 13:22:51 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 sighted in Oklahoma --- Bennett Levin wrote: > The PBS series The American Experience is notorious > for failing(with an > F-) when it comes to train coverage. The recent > production on American > Streamliners shows English scenes. Other productions > of European Trains > during the wartime show an ERIE boxcar! > And the History Channel isn't any better. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 18:06:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Radio Equipped Decals Hugh Deberthine of California made the "Radio" decals, at one time: look for them (or have someone look for you) at the PRRT&HS convention - this week. Sorry, I can't make it this year.... RR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jeremy & Soni Helms" Subject: Re: [PRR] Radio Equipped Decals Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 20:30:44 -0500 Dick, Raritan Bay Hobbies makes these with the web address of http://www.raritanbayhobbies.com/ They sell these in HO scale only at $3.49 for a set of I believe 4. Now if doing another scale (I am currently working on some N scale projects) take these to your local Kinko's or color copying outfit and copy onto plain WHITE decal sheet. Most color copier places are unable to copy white. They can also reduce or increase at a set percentage allowing for exact scale replication. Another thing I have suggested to the folks at Raritan Bay Hobbies is to send these off to Rail Graphics or some other outfit like that and have them run off a number of N, S, & O scale copies of these. Just a thought. Jeremy Helms > Hello, > Can any one tell me if any one makes a decal for the small "Radio > Equipped" insignia on the cab of PRR hood diesels, and where can I find > them. The sign is a small red square containing a white circle with the > words "Radio Equipped" in it. So far I haven't been able to find them, and > my local hobby shop hasn't been able to help either. I hope one of you can > help. Thank you. > Dick Lemin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Train shop Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:48:54 -0400 Listers, This is for you Harrisburg locals. Just off the exit of 81 for Hershey there is a billboard for a Hobby shop somewhere near Marysville. Anyone know its name. Since I am coming down to the meeting I figure I could at least check it out. See you at the meeting (those that are going)!!! Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 16:26:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Train shop On Wed, 2 May 2001, Chany, Christopher wrote: > > Listers, > > This is for you Harrisburg locals. Just off the exit of 81 for Hershey > there is a billboard for a Hobby shop somewhere near Marysville. Anyone > know its name. Since I am coming down to the meeting I figure I could at > least check it out. Based on past traveling I'd guess it's Dale's LocoMotion, on the railroad side of 11/15 in/near Marysville. I've been past but never stopped there, so I can't comment further. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:27:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Train shop From: Jerry Britton On 5/2/01 4:26 PM, Derrick J Brashear at (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: >> This is for you Harrisburg locals. Just off the exit of 81 for Hershey >> there is a billboard for a Hobby shop somewhere near Marysville. Anyone >> know its name. Since I am coming down to the meeting I figure I could at >> least check it out. > > Based on past traveling I'd guess it's Dale's LocoMotion, on the railroad > side of 11/15 in/near Marysville. I've been past but never stopped there, > so I can't comment further. > D's probably right. They used to be all Lionel, but now they advertise HO. They are actually several miles north of Marysville, on the way to Duncannon. They are across from Big Bee Boats, which is what you should look for, cause you'll miss Dale's. It's a tiny shop in the basement of a house. On a nice day, he puts stuff on tables along the road. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lmatt" Subject: [PRR] octagon building at Altoona Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 21:58:02 -0400 Dear friends: I have a PRR print of an 8 sided building called a "watch box" and is marked Altoona, Sept, 1880. It is aabout 6' wide on each side of the octagon. Anyone know anything about this building and what it may have been used for? Lew Matt #6107 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 22:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] octagon building at Altoona Lew, It sounds like a crossing shanty. But being not many if any cars in 1880, maybe the purpose was to house the watchman to guard against horse/buggy--Train collisions? Could also be a track walkers shelter? I'm pretty much guessing....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 22:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] octagon building at Altoona Lew, I got my book out called "57 Plans - MOW-For the Pennsylvania Railroad" On page 38 they have a plan for a "Watch Box". It is dated for 1911. At this time the building is a small rectangle shape. It says a "Watch Box" if for a watchman at Grade Crossings. It also says "However, it also saw duty at other locations where a watchan was stationed and had to be protected from the weather". So my first guess may be right on lline anyway. Horses, pedestrians etc of the 1880 time period protected at crossings...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 12:19:19 -0400 Subject: [PRR] One Hot Convention!!! From: Jerry Britton Disregard the weather reports -- weather channel says it is currently 81 degrees in Harrisburg...it is 95!!! Gonna be a cooker for the convention. If I recall, it was real hot last year as well. However, the hotel's A/C kept up with it. T-minus 6 hours and 40 minutes until the first session -- on the Elmira Branch -- kicks off. Hope to see some of you this evening, many more tomorrow and Saturday. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 15:07:47 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Web Cam over Harrisburg? From: Jerry Britton Okay, here's a tangent treat for you... I live just outside of Harrisburg, and big in the news is the second season of nesting for a pair of Peregrine Falcons in an artificial nest on the side of a city office building. There's a web cam so you can monitor the birds, whose eggs are due to hatch +/- May 6...in three days! Anyhow, I was checking out the website, which offers "wallpaper" shots for computers, and guess what I found... http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/falcon/images/falconclose640.jpg This photo, though the falcon is in the foreground, is an excellent shot of the current trackage south of the Harrisburg passenger station!!! The roadway bridge at left is Mulberry Street. The railroad overpass at the top is the Reading line. At center right is the wye where Amtrak turns trains. This leads to the right to the Cumberland Valley Branch bridge over which Northern Central Branch trains arrived into Harrisburg. A while back I noted railfanning with my son in a parking lot that was owned by Pinnacle Health Systems, down by Harrisburg Hospital. The lot is in this photo, to the right of the mains, above the wye, and below the Reading line. This lot and the area within the wye would have been part of the Harrisburg Gas Company. The apartment building alongside the wye would have been the approximate location of the REA building. The freight warehouse was yet further to the right, out of view. Prior to the 1930's, there was a turntable and roundhouse on the site of the current wye. End of bird story! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 22:05:10 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: [PRR] ALERT A significant number of PRR artifacts are missing from the Collection of Bennett Levin including the tower signs from Forge, Wall, View, Hunt, Benny, AR and others to be catalogued and posted as soon as an inventory is completed. Also missing are a significant number of O-Scale PRR models. A substantial amount of PRR serving silver is also missing. Beware of anyone who you may suspect had access to the collection and who may be attempting to fence the mechandise. Bennett Levin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 06:06:11 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention - Day One From: Jerry Britton Things kicked off on-time with Eric Johnson's talk of the Elmira branch. Some excellent photos of steam that I had not seen published before. Even included some photos of Erie units (FT's, I think) working the branch during 1955 when they apparently used the branch as a by-pass of one of their lines that had gotten washed out from a hurricane. For a modeler, this adds a touch of color to the line. Also had shots of NYC Alco FA "Lightning Stripe" pool power. Eric started in Newberry and worked north. It ran longer than expected and I had to leave after Emporium to attend to some business. The vendor room sold all tables once again. Bill Lewis has a huge N scale setup on-site this year. They arranged for him to have a locked room so he doesn't have to tear down each night. They were running trains until 10 last evening. Though I did not see Claus and Doug, I did see a sample of Hell Gate's new resin B-60b's in N scale. Looks pretty darn good. The roof and sides are especially smooth, but a slight amount of clean up is required. They should sell a ton of these! Brian Butcher of East Wind Mfg. reports that the P-70kR sides (N scale) are ready for display, so I should see them on Day Two. He also has his new Key T-1 on hand. Looks like the Pittsburgh Chapter put on a great show. Another report after Day Two. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Don Murphy" Subject: [PRR] Custom painting! DCC installed! Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:15:06 -0400 X-Apparently-From: Dmurp670@cs.com Custom painting! DCC installed! Westside Locomotive Works offers professional custom painting with DCC installation and a quick turn around time! Over 15 years experience. A lifetime PRR modeler recreating the Renovo Division circa 1946. Former steam locomotive kit reviewer for Model Railroader magazine! See examples of my work here: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/dmurp670?d&.flabel=fld1&.intl=us&.src=ph&start=1 Email for a quote and a price list! Don Murphy Westside Locomotive Works dmurp670@cs.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Staley Tank Cars on the PRR Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 19:42:06 -0400 Jerry & List: I do not see you copied on this. Now you can run a string of A. E. Staley cars through Harrisburg! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Allen" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Staley Tank Cars on the PRR > Staley also has a plant in Morrisville, PA which is served by a short > branch which joins the Trenton Cutoff just east of the Engine House and > crosses under the NEC . Val Maps show this spur as "Old Main". > > MEA > > On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:47:13 -0400 "Gregg Mahlkov" > writes: > > Jerry:- > > > > Since A. E. Staley is located at Decatur, IL, and PRR served Decatur on > the line from Terre Haute to Peoria, I am sure some of these cars would > be seenon PRR in the 1950's. > > > > Gregg Mahlkov > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerry Britton" > > To: "PRR-Talk LIST" > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 10:31 AM > > Subject: [PRR] Staley Tank Cars on the PRR > > > > > > > InterMountain makes some pretty decent 8,000 gallon tank cars. One of > the road names is Staley Manufacturing. Would these have been spotted on > the PRR in the mid-1950's? > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch questions Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 17:23:56 -0700 List, After perusing Bill Caloroso's excellent book on PRR'S ELMIRA BRANCH, I have a couple of questions for those of you who are familiar with operations on this line. First of all, there are several photos of trains passing semaphores, (the ones I saw were taken at Trout Run) in which the train is well past the signal mast, but the upper arm of the semaphore is still in the clear position. I know from actual observations that it takes a short time after a train passes a semaphore signal for the arm to drop (in the case of where I watched one, it was a lower quadrant in which the arm raised...) but the train in these shots is well past the signal. Were these manual signals set by the block operators? Most, if not all of the trains carried a cabin car just after the locomotive. The text states that there was no room on the locomotive for the head end brakeman (but PRR freight locomotives had a doghouse on the tender cistern). I know that New York State required an additional brakeman...did he ride in this cabin car? How often were locomotives cycled off the line, for major repairs at Altoona. A common L1s photographed in 1957 was 2365...was it on the line in, say 1950 or so? A more general question...I know that most PRR locomtives were subjected to the "beauty treatment" by the time many of the photos were shot (in the mid to late 1950's). How long did it take for the PRR to cycle these locomotives through the shops for relocation of the generator and headlight? Would many locomotives carry the the generator and headlight in the earlier position as late as 1950 or 1951? Inquiring minds want to know! Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lmatt" Subject: [PRR] PRR "snow melting" oil storage system Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 10:57:47 -0400 I have a disintegrated PRR drawing, dated 1918, of an underground oil storage system that PRR used for snow melting, probably at switch points. There is what appears to be an in-ground filler pipe with a filter, encased in a ground level concrete slab situated over an underground square storeage tank. Ten feet away, there is an above ground 20" diameter, 37" high roofed cylinder, with a curved door on the front, containing two pipes, a vent pipe coming from the top of the oil storage tank and another pipe coming from the bottom of the same tank. This pipe is not completely drawn past the point where it leaves the soil and enters the cylinder. The draftsman rendered this pipe with a horizontal "S" line to show that there is a section taken out. The drawing designates the cylinder to be not less than 10' from the tank and 20' from the tracks. My question is: was there a pump of some sort, hand or other(?) inside this cylinder to extract the oil for the use of melting snow? If there was a pump inside, does anyone have knowledge of what it looked like, either a memory, a photo or a drawing? OR, do I have this backward, is the filler pipe in the cylinder and what appears to be the intake/filter in the ground some kind of pump? E-mail me off line with questions. I will repost when I have the answer. Lew Matt PRT&HS #6107 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 12:06:15 EDT Subject: [PRR] WILMINGTON/CLOCK TOWER Hi everyone - Just uploaded two pictures sent by Earl of the Clock Tower building. He is attaching the roof. This thing has really turned out to be a showpiece and has been well worth the delay. Strongly recommend all customers download the pictures off the site to help with construction. Dayna http://www.trainstuffllc.com/images/wpe26.jpg http://www.trainstuffllc.com/images/wpe25.jpg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Branch questions Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 23:20:18 -0500 Hi Bill--Nobody has "volunteered" yet, so let me take a shot at a couple of your questions. > >Were these manual signals set by the > block operators? > I believe the semaphores you refer to were train order signals, used if there were orders to be handed on. Other photos show the usual PRR position light signals for blocks and sidings on the Branch. > > How often were locomotives cycled off the line, for major > repairs at Altoona. > Locomotives assigned to the branch would normally have gone to Renovo for major work as stated in "Set Up Running". > > Would many locomotives carry the the generator and headlight > in the earlier position as late as 1950 or 1951? Inquiring > minds want to know! > Photos I have seen would indicate that most of these modifications were completed by 1951; however, some were done after this, and there were a handful of engines that never were modified. Practicality would dictate that this non-essential change would only be done in conjunction with other major work if the required parts were at the right shop at the right time. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 07:33:47 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Two Jerry, Well, all of us that couldn't make the convention are looking forward to further updates. The mention of Lazer Horizon's new coach sides was a pleasant surprise. A P70kr and gsr were products I had no idea were coming. Not having the new coach book yet, but expecting to get it this weekend, I'm not sure right off what the kR version looks like exactly. But the gsr version is an old favorite. What's got my curiosity working is what to use for a roof? Or does it match the roof section available from Bethlehem Car Works, the plastic one? (Almost seems though that the roof tapered down toward the ends, but I'm not looking at plans and am trying to recollect). This certainly shows promise. We're all looking forward to an update. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 08:55:22 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention -- Day Three (Belated) From: Jerry Britton Day Three -- Business meeting was well attended and there was no "bad news". Dave Scott provided his typical "full disclosure" financial report. Bob Johnson gave an overview of the archive project. A fuller report was provided later in the day, with a Q&A session, but I was unable to attend. It appears that the project is finally moving...and in good directions!!! A preliminary estimate is that the collection contains about 170,000 drawings! Next year's convention is in Camp Hill, as previously announced. 2003 will be hosted by the Philadelphia Chapter, at a TBD site. Trenton and Cherry Hill are being considered. There's been on-going talk of a "Lines West" convention for 2004, hosted by the Cincinatti Modeler's Division. So as to not create a convention that nobody will attend, the would-be hosters presented their ideas and it was tremendously recieved. Nearly everyone in the room (about 300) indicated they would attend! The plan includes having the banquet in the concourse of Cincinnati Union Station! Paul Backenstose gave a presentation on "Giving Your Layout the Flavor of the PRR". He provided kitbash samples of "off the shelf" models that can easily be made to represent PRR prototypes, including -- get this -- Plasticville! With his permission, I will soon be posting his list of applicable models to the "Modeling" section of "Keystone Crossings". At dinner, a "Lifetime Achievement" award was presented to Gil Reid. Many of his paintings, and a few from other painters, were on display during dinner. Wow, what a collection all in one place! Bob Yagodich, a fellow member of the Northern Central Chapter, took "Best of Show" for his HO scale model of a ballast cleaning train. The effort required 600 hours of labor. I caught more than one person off-guard when I told them it actually worked..."it pulls up your dirty cork and lays down new cork!" ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 09:21:00 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] P70Kr and P70 GSr I'm thrilled. As anyone lurking on this list for a while knows, I have been asking for these cars for a long time. I'll be watching your site next week Jerry. But I'm confused about the roof. Both of these cars useda flush end, low profile, arch roof to match contemporary streamlined cars. I don't see how a standard P70 kit can form a core for them! I will probably continue with my old habits of usenig a brass floor and a shortened roof salvaged from an old AHM/Rivarossi streamliner. BTW Barry, bad news. The new PRR Coach book, good as it is, has NO pictures of either of these classes :-( BTW2 I will have to alert my B&M friends here in NEw England who have been anxious to build an Eastwind. The P70k was the correct car for them. regards, Andy Miller ============================ BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > Jerry, > Well, all of us that couldn't make the convention are looking forward to further updates. The mention of Lazer Horizon's new coach sides was a pleasant surprise. A P70kr and gsr were products I had no idea were coming. Not having the new coach book yet, but expecting to get it this weekend, I'm not sure right off what the kR version looks like exactly. But the gsr version is an old favorite. What's got my curiosity working is what to use for a roof? Or does it match the roof section available from Bethlehem Car Works, the plastic one? (Almost seems though that the roof tapered down toward the ends, but I'm not looking at plans and am trying to recollect). This certainly shows promise. > We're all looking forward to an update. > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 09:32:46 -0400 From: Thomas Mahon Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention -- Day Three (Belated) God, Jerry! You are cruel! Like the time I was running a module display at a show and a young man was giving his mother an awful time. I stopped all the running trains and told him that they could detect a child who was not being nice and would not run until he stopped giving his mother a hard time. He gave me a startled look. His mother's look was of indescribable relief. He stopped making noise and the trains ran. He went 15 feet and started again and the trains stopped! His mother reminded him of what I had said. He was very well behaved for the rest of his visit. And the trains ran. My fellow "engineer" told me I was going straight to hell for that one. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH Jerry Britton wrote: > Day Three -- > Bob Yagodich, a fellow member of the Northern Central Chapter, took "Best of > Show" for his HO scale model of a ballast cleaning train. The effort > required 600 hours of labor. I caught more than one person off-guard when I > told them it actually worked..."it pulls up your dirty cork and lays down > new cork!" > ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 09:51:07 -0400 Subject: HO P-70KR and P-70GSR (was [PRR] Convention Day Two) From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/01 7:33 AM, BPX29@aol.com (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > Well, all of us that couldn't make the convention are looking forward to > further updates. The mention of Lazer Horizon's new coach sides was a pleasant > surprise. A P70kr and gsr were products I had no idea were coming. Laser Horizons clued me in a few days before the convention, but I had some questions about what was being used as the core kit, so I did not make an announcement. To my delight, they brought both sides to the convention and I sold every set I had!!! They are now listed at "Merchandise Service" and available for ordering. Note that you also need an ECW P-70 car kit to use as the core. Currently the web site shows the other ECW core kit and related items...please disregard these. This is incorrect and will be fixed this evening. You can find the new sides in the New Arrivals listing at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/ms_new.html or on the Laser Horizons page at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/ms_laser.html Neil Campbell, Northern Central Chapter, bought a few, commuted home to Bel Air, Maryland, and returned on Saturday to say that he stayed up and mocked up the first car! Reports from cohorts who went to a local drinking establishment (in lieue of the banquet) say Neil promises a train full of these cars in the modeling room next year. Neil, we'll hold you to it!!! > Not having > the new coach book yet, but expecting to get it this weekend, I'm not sure > right off what the kR version looks like exactly. But the gsr version is an > old favorite. What's got my curiosity working is what to use for a roof? Or > does it match the roof section available from Bethlehem Car Works, the plastic > one? (Almost seems though that the roof tapered down toward the ends, but I'm > not looking at plans and am trying to recollect). This certainly shows > promise. Laser Horizons made the sides as replacements for an ECW P-70 car kit. I do not know if this is 100% accurate or not, or if a specific P-70 car kit (since they offer several) should be recommended. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 09:55:51 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: P70Kr and P70 GSr Andy & folks, Thanks for the reply and the info. This leads me to a couple questions and speculations. First off, as regards photos,etc of the GsR version, are there any photos in the Morning Sun Color Guide 1? And it seems that not too long ago I stumbled accross a drawing in a 60'/70's era RMC of this car. Do I remember correctly, or is this only a similar class of car? As regards roofs and basic bodies, I was was sort of considering the possibilities of using the ECW P70 FAR kit for the basis. (And don't they offer some sort of basic car body that has an arch roof with a lowered profile?). Other potential roofs might include, aside from the AHM/Riv streamliner you mentioned, the streamline roofs from Brass Car Sides or Northeastern, but without drawings or broadside photos it's hard for me to judge. Too bad the new book doesn't include these. Is there anything in the NJ-Int or old Wayner books? Just seems like an irresistable project and a natural car for the Buffalo Day Express or Red Bird. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 09:57:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] P70Kr and P70 GSr From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/01 9:21 AM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > I'm thrilled. As anyone lurking on this list for a while knows, I have > been asking for these cars for a long time. I'll be watching your site > next week Jerry. You don't have to wait that long...look now! > > But I'm confused about the roof. Both of these cars useda flush end, > low profile, arch roof to match contemporary streamlined cars. I don't > see how a standard P70 kit can form a core for them! I will probably > continue with my old habits of usenig a brass floor and a shortened roof > salvaged from an old AHM/Rivarossi streamliner. Your feedback is appreciated. Perhaps a streamlined ECW core kit should be recommended, with the roof being shortened. Care to elaborate on this possibility? > > BTW Barry, bad news. The new PRR Coach book, good as it is, has NO > pictures of either of these classes :-( The preface of this book reports that this is a "first look" at coaches. I suspect there will be another volume on coaches. The second volume will be released this summer, on Sleepers, to be followed by Parlor Cars. > > BTW2 I will have to alert my B&M friends here in NEw England who have > been anxious to build an Eastwind. The P70k was the correct car for > them. > Yes, it is, hence the name of the company offering the P-70kR's in N scale...East Wind Manufacturing!!! They delivered their first batch of sides at the convention as well. Their PLC-70 coach-cafe's will follow shortly. Their new 2D-P5 trucks sold very well. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 10:04:10 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Northern Division ETT 1955 From: Jerry Britton Anyone have a Northern Division employe timetable from 1955? I've been looking for such an ETT from 9/26/54, but it has been suggested that possibly there was no reprint as of this date. The person has a copy from 4/26/54 that has pasted in updates through 3/55. The timetable is #6. This person also has ETT #5, which is dated 4/26/53. Both suggest that perhaps the Northern Division was only updated annually. If someone has one from 4/26/55, it would be helpful to know if it is #7 or #8. Thank you! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 10:06:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70Kr and P70 GSr From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/01 9:55 AM, BPX29@aol.com (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > Is there anything in the NJ-Int or old Wayner books? The previous sides offered by Laser Horizons were created using the fairly detailed drawings from my copy of the "Pullman Standard Library, Volume Four: The Pennsylvania Railroad". Laser Horizons created the P-70KR and P-70GSR sides from less detailed drawings in one of the Wayner books. If the Wayner created sides prove to be "close enough", then that certainly opens the doors to a whole bunch of additional sides!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 10:10:04 EDT Subject: [PRR] Philadelphia Chapter If you are an officer or member of the Philadelphia Chapter please contact me off-line. dwa9975062@aol.com Dayna ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 10:18:22 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70Kr and P70 GSr/ "Additional Sides" Jerry, Let's hope your comment about opening possibilities for additional sides comes true! It seems Lazer Horizons has broken a barrier, so to speak, by introducing a modernized, non-lightweight car side in plastic. Think of how it would be if they did a side for a modernized diner, the modernized PB70 combine, and maybe a 6-6 and 8-5 sleeper. (The 8s-lounge seems too good to even hope for). I'm getting pretty spoiled already with all the new products coming out, so will be more than happy to get some of their coach sides as it is. Please forward my best regards to Lazer, as I believe you're the exclusive dealer for them? This is getting good. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 10:22:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70Kr and P70 GSr/ "Additional Sides" From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/01 10:18 AM, BPX29@aol.com (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > Let's hope your comment about opening possibilities for additional sides comes > true! It seems Lazer Horizons has broken a barrier, so to speak, by > introducing a modernized, non-lightweight car side in plastic. Think of how it > would be if they did a side for a modernized diner, the modernized PB70 > combine, and maybe a 6-6 and 8-5 sleeper. (The 8s-lounge seems too good to > even hope for). I'm getting pretty spoiled already with all the new products > coming out, so will be more than happy to get some of their coach sides as it > is. Please forward my best regards to Lazer, as I believe you're the exclusive > dealer for them? Yes, I was told I was the exclusive dealer for them, though not by formal agreement. Laser Horizons has been great at getting me the sides I ask for. I will review the Wayner book this week and make recommendations, perhaps even conducting a poll first. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 10:40:58 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70Kr and P70 GSr Barry, The P70FAR had a low profile arch roof, but with rounded ends - not the flush ends of contemporary streamlined cars, and the K and GSR. My favorite (and perhaps only known) photo of a GSR was in a copy of the PENNSY magazine reporting on the dedication of 1361 at the Horseshoe Curve. Apparently a special train had been arranged to take visitors to the site. The train was arrayed on the curve, behind the K4 and dignitaries. It was a solid string of GSRs. It was a rainy day and the cars glistened when wet! Unfortunately the umbrellas obscured a lot of the details. regards, Andy Miller ==================== BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > Andy & folks, > Thanks for the reply and the info. This leads me to a couple questions and speculations. First off, as regards photos,etc of the GsR version, are there any photos in the Morning Sun Color Guide 1? And it seems that not too long ago I stumbled accross a drawing in a 60'/70's era RMC of this car. Do I remember correctly, or is this only a similar class of car? > As regards roofs and basic bodies, I was was sort of considering the possibilities of using the ECW P70 FAR kit for the basis. (And don't they offer some sort of basic car body that has an arch roof with a lowered profile?). Other potential roofs might include, aside from the AHM/Riv streamliner you mentioned, the streamline roofs from Brass Car Sides or Northeastern, but without drawings or broadside photos it's hard for me to judge. > Too bad the new book doesn't include these. Is there anything in the NJ-Int or old Wayner books? Just seems like an irresistable project and a natural car for the Buffalo Day Express or Red Bird. > Regards, > Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 12:03:11 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: P70Kr and P70 GSr From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/01 9:21 AM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > But I'm confused about the roof. Both of these cars useda flush end, > low profile, arch roof to match contemporary streamlined cars. I don't > see how a standard P70 kit can form a core for them! Andy & List: Tonight I will edit the description of the P-70GSR and P-70KR cars to read something like: "This car had a flush-end, low-profile, arch roof to match contemporary streamlined cars. To that end, a cut-down Eastern Car Works 85-foot core kit should be used as the proper basis for this car. However, less endeavorous modelers may wish to use these ready-fit sides as replacement sides for the Eastern Car Works P-70FAR or P-70FBR car kit, which features a rounded roof end." Does this sound appropriate? Thanks for your input! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 12:16:39 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] P70Kr and P70 GSr In a message dated 5/7/01 8:29:22 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << But I'm confused about the roof. Both of these cars useda flush end, low profile, arch roof to match contemporary streamlined cars. I don't see how a standard P70 kit can form a core for them! >> I agree with you, Andy. Question is what ends do we use to go with an AHM/Rivarossi roof? I will have to check my P70FAR ends to see what needs to be done to use those. It looks like the Pennsy just added a sheetmetal piece to fill the gap. There is a photo of P70GS on page 13 of the PRR Color Guide and photos and drawings of P70KR in June, 1981 Rails Northeast. Does the Laser kit duplicate the rivets? That would be a breakthrough, to say nothing of being necessary. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 12:41:33 EDT From: Prr1187@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70Kr and P70 GSr In a message dated Mon, 7 May 2001 10:05:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, BPX29@aol.com writes: < Andy & folks, Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70Kr and P70 GSr Jerry, While I have only seen a few pictures of P70Ks and P70 GSRs, all of them, and the PRR diagram books show these cars only with a flush end roof. I am not sure of the exact length, but I think the PS streamlined core kit is the closest fit. But it probably will require shortening (that's cutting a piece off - not adding Crisco) There are other makers of Core kits (Brass car sides, Am Ltd, et al) Someone might have the right core. BTW if you must use an ECW out of the box, the FAR has the correct height. I think the FBR arch roof is too high (and has a rounded end). Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 5/7/01 9:21 AM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > > > But I'm confused about the roof. Both of these cars useda flush end, > > low profile, arch roof to match contemporary streamlined cars. I don't > > see how a standard P70 kit can form a core for them! > > Andy & List: > > Tonight I will edit the description of the P-70GSR and P-70KR cars to read > something like: > > "This car had a flush-end, low-profile, arch roof to match contemporary > streamlined cars. To that end, a cut-down Eastern Car Works 85-foot core kit > should be used as the proper basis for this car. However, less endeavorous > modelers may wish to use these ready-fit sides as replacement sides for the > Eastern Car Works P-70FAR or P-70FBR car kit, which features a rounded roof > end." > > Does this sound appropriate? Thanks for your input! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 14:34:56 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] P70Kr and P70 GSr As I recall, the ends on both of theses cars were std P70 ends, with sheetmetal above the letterboard continuation to mate up to the arch roof. I also seem to recall having read somewhere that the rivets had been welded in place and ground off to present the smoothside appearance of a streamlined car. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/7/01 8:29:22 AM Central Daylight Time, > asmiller@mitre.org writes: > > << But I'm confused about the roof. Both of these cars useda flush end, > low profile, arch roof to match contemporary streamlined cars. I don't > see how a standard P70 kit can form a core for them! >> > > I agree with you, Andy. Question is what ends do we use to go with an > AHM/Rivarossi roof? I will have to check my P70FAR ends to see what needs to > be done to use those. It looks like the Pennsy just added a sheetmetal > piece to fill the gap. > > There is a photo of P70GS on page 13 of the PRR Color Guide and photos and > drawings of P70KR in June, 1981 Rails Northeast. > > Does the Laser kit duplicate the rivets? That would be a breakthrough, to say > nothing of being necessary. > > Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 15:02:44 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: P70Kr and P70 GSr Andy & folks, Well, I've been thinking about this a bit, and have to do a bit of snooping around when I get home. First off, I'll have to dig up that Julian Cavilier drawing of a potential GSR and see if that's what it really is. Then I've got to compare the Brass Car Sides and Northeastern roof stock to the drawing and the FAR roof. If things match up, the flat-ended roof situation is resolved. But there may be another pet project a guy could bash out of this. The FAR sides might provide a thermopane window strip and vestibule door for modernizing a PB70 combine, and the FAR roof could still be used on this car. The ends and floor could serve with the GSR sides, and if using the skirted version, much underbody detail could become optional. (And at $5 for the underbody details from ECW, a/c seems like it could be added). This has gotten my curiosity up, and will try to report a few observations later. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Convention Day Two Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 15:35:51 -0400 A follow up to Jerry's post on day 2. The N&W safety program was a hoot. It seems the photographer used only one pose to show someone getting injured. Win Gross's talk was good and put to rest the question whether a derailment took out Paoli tower's bay window. The talk on towers was a little long as was the Crestline roundhouse. I did not get to the talks on car classification or PRR paintings. Then since most of the layout tours were down near York we went to dinner in York at a place famous for it's waitresses. Saw three layouts. Two HO in York (emigsburg) and an O near Lake Meade. All were great and I thank the hosts and their wives for being so accommodating. Chris Chany - Subject: [PRR] Convention Day Two As a vendor in the vendor room, I cannot comment on the seminars of the day, someone else will have to do that. The vendor room was unusually busy all morning, then thinning out during the afternoon and evening, as expected. I don't know what everyone else's big sellers were, but my two top items were the HO scale Athearn Genesis F7A/B sets and the Railroad Press book on "PRR Coaches". Hell Gate Models delivered their N scale B-60b Baggage and Messenger cars. They only deal direct, at least for now. They look good and I received my first 10. East Wind delivered their N scale P-70kR sides; kits to follow. Laser Horizons unexpectedly delivered their HO scale P-70kR and P-70gsR sides. I was sold out within 3 hours!!! Instead of an ECW core kit, these require an ECW P-70 kit for which you use the Laser Horizons sides. (The ability to order these will be on the Merchandise Service web site this coming week.) At the movies last evening there was some great locomotive footage...some that I hope makes it to video some day soon. A round of laughter occurred when a T-1 was moving right along when, all of a sudden, the front set of drivers started slipping! A PRR promo film from just prior to the merger was shown. It hailed the PRR's investments in non-railroad ventures, much to the chagrin of the audience. Groans were heard when we saw Penn Station coming down...in color! And then the narrator hailed the forthcoming merger with the New York Central...duh!!! Being a commuter, I left at 10:30. They were continuing with slide shows. It's now 6:15 a.m. and I am off to the "I Love The Smell of Diesel Fumes in the Morning" breakfast on the concrete (nee iron) bridge at Enola. See ya!!! - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ThreeButchers@cs.com Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 17:30:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] P70gsR Question List; BTW....Did the P70gsR have full-width diaphragms as delivered? My photos are circa 1962 Thanks in advance! Brian Butcher ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:01:38 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] P70Kr and P70 GSr In a message dated 5/7/01 1:35:23 PM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << I also seem to recall having read somewhere that the rivets had been welded in place and ground off to present the smoothside appearance of a streamlined car. >> I don't know about the GSR. The KR rivets show up in the photos. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Richard Campbell" Subject: Re: [PRR] P70gsR Question Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 20:54:33 -0400 Brian, Yes both the P70Kr and P70GsR had full diaphrams. So if you due your cars in FoM you could fudge on the sheet metal extendsion on the end of the roofs. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 5:30 PM Subject: [PRR] P70gsR Question > List; > > BTW....Did the P70gsR have full-width diaphragms as delivered? My photos are > circa 1962 > > Thanks in advance! > > Brian Butcher > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 12:04:07 -0400 Subject: [PRR] 85' Smoothside Passenger Car Sides -- HO & N Scale From: Jerry Britton Please respond off-list... I'd like to know what 85' smoothside passenger car sides are needed by modelers that are not currently offered by Laser Horizons. The list of Laser Horizons current offerings may be viewed at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/ms_laser.html When responding about additional sides, please reference the PRR class, builder, and builder plan or lot number. For reference, take a look at Rob's site at http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html Remember, I am only asking about 85' smoothsides at this time!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 14:39:24 -0400 Subject: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) From: Jerry Britton I'm building "The General / The Trail Blazer" as it existed in 1954, according to the New York Division "Makeup of Trains" book. At the tail end is an "Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet)", PRR class POC85. While Rob's site may not be all-inclusive, it does list the following POC85's: POC85, Parlor-Observation Car, Budd, Car #1126 POC85AR, Parlor-Observation Car, Budd, no additional info POC85B, Parlor-Bar-Lounge-Observation Car, Budd, #7128 "George Washington" and #7129 "Alexander Hamilton" POC85C, Parlor-Telephone-Bar-Lounge-Observation Car, Budd, #7126 "Benjamin Franklin" and #7127 "Martha Washington" Does anyone know which of these cars, or classes, might have been assigned to "The General / The Trail Blazer" based on photos or consist reports? Even a consist report from an earlier or later date would suggest the car remained in that assignment. Related, if you can't determine which one was in this train, perhaps we can eliminate others. A POC85 was also assigned to train #21, "Indianapolis Limited". Plus, I don't know the makeups of trains originating/destinating in Washington, D.C. Perhaps some POC85's were assigned to them as well. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 15:09:25 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) Jerry, I can check some of this out later, but I don't think any of the cars you mentioned ever ran on the General/Trailblazer. The cars used on that train were the cars originally on the Trailblazer, and the combined train used to carry the Pullmans in the front of the train, a reversal of the usual makeup of passenger trains. I think the book on the "Blue Ribbon Fleet" also makes mention of the cars used on the trailblazer, and the obs car, like the rest of the consist, was possibly a rebuild. The obs car on the Indy Ltd came off the Jeffersonian. That all-coach train was discontinued and replaced by the general-purpose Indy train, which ran very close to the times of the Spirit of St.Louis, as the Jeffersonian had. Perhaps the consist book may also show the sleepers being forward on this train as well, to allow coach passengers to reach their obs car without walking through the sleepers. Once again, the Kalmbach book should have some coverage of this equipment. Additional sources might be "Zephyrs to Amtrak" and "Passenger Train Consists" (? exact title)by Wayner.One of the Dorin books on coach trains also address this matter. I can check later, as the built date, lot and plan numbers of all lightweight cars are included, as well as many floor plans. But I think you're looking at a smoothside, round-end car for the General. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 15:45:54 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) Greetings to Jerry and the List: POC85B, Parlor-Bar-Lounge-Observation Car, Budd, #7128 "George Washington" and #7129 "Alexander Hamilton" POC85C, Parlor-Telephone-Bar-Lounge-Observation Car, Budd, #7126 "Benjamin Franklin" and #7127 "Martha Washington" These stainless-steel cars were assigned to Congressional and possibly Senator service NY-Washington. They were part of the PRR's order to Budd Co. for the re-equipping of those services, circa 1952. The last I saw the car Martha Washington, it was sitting derelict as a home for a proposed (or perhaps failed) retail business in downtown McKeesport, Pa., a few blocks from the nearest tracks (P&LE/B&O/CSXT). Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:34:57 -0600 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] PRR cabin car(s), Maybrook, NY Hi, There are 2 PRR cabin cars listed in Maybrook, NY: PRR #?, Class N5, Tourist Info Center, painted and sometimes reported as NH C512; PRR 477656?/PC/CR 22824?, Class N5B, Museum behind Library, there is some question on the number. Along with the obvious questions marked by "?", I wonder if these could be 2 reports of the same cabin car? Help me if you can I'm feeling down! Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 109 So. Madison St., Cortez, CO 81321-3733. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 21:56:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) From: Jerry Britton On 5/8/01 3:09 PM, BPX29@aol.com at (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > I can check some of this out later, but I don't think any of the cars you > mentioned ever ran on the General/Trailblazer. The cars used on that train > were the cars originally on the Trailblazer, and the combined train used to > carry the Pullmans in the front of the train, a reversal of the usual makeup > of passenger trains. I think the book on the "Blue Ribbon Fleet" also makes > mention of the cars used on the trailblazer, and the obs car, like the rest of > the consist, was possibly a rebuild. What? You care to argue against a "Makeup of Trains" book published by the PRR itself? Did you work at Sunnyside in '54? (This is light-hearted jabbing, not a flame!) The "Makeup of Trains" from 4/54 reads "POC85" as the last car. Checked "Blue Ribbon Fleet" and found two agreeable entries... Page 64 lists "POC85AR #1134" in a consist of 1949. Page 128 shows a "POC85AR" in a consist of 1952. Looks like the specific plan of the car is now confirmed. Reasonable chance the #1134 remained in assignment through '54. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Horse Car Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:13:14 -0400 Listers, Does anyone know if the PRR horse cars ever got to Saratoga NY? If someone has a picture can they also give me the car name. Thanks Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 08:58:14 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) Plans and photos for the POC85AR appeared in Rail Northeast. They were converted P70s. There were two versions - one with the original P70 windows and the other with large thermopane windows - looking very much like a round end P70FAR. This latter one is probably the 1954 survivor which ran on the General. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 5/8/01 3:09 PM, BPX29@aol.com at (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > > > I can check some of this out later, but I don't think any of the cars you > > mentioned ever ran on the General/Trailblazer. The cars used on that train > > were the cars originally on the Trailblazer, and the combined train used to > > carry the Pullmans in the front of the train, a reversal of the usual makeup > > of passenger trains. I think the book on the "Blue Ribbon Fleet" also makes > > mention of the cars used on the trailblazer, and the obs car, like the rest of > > the consist, was possibly a rebuild. > > What? You care to argue against a "Makeup of Trains" book published by the > PRR itself? Did you work at Sunnyside in '54? (This is light-hearted > jabbing, not a flame!) > > The "Makeup of Trains" from 4/54 reads "POC85" as the last car. > > Checked "Blue Ribbon Fleet" and found two agreeable entries... > > Page 64 lists "POC85AR #1134" in a consist of 1949. > > Page 128 shows a "POC85AR" in a consist of 1952. > > Looks like the specific plan of the car is now confirmed. Reasonable chance > the #1134 remained in assignment through '54. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 09:01:40 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Horse Car Chris, I would also be interested in answers to your question. By way of a semi-educated guess, I would venture to say it was quite possible or probable that Pennsy horse cars wandered up there. For one thing, Pennsy had a lot of these cars. For another, Saratoga is in the same racing association as the Jersey and Baltimore tracks, though how far back this affiliation goes I can't say. I do recall seeing photos of these cars being loaded at the Atlantic City track in the early 60's, in their waning days of horse transport, though their destination wasn't mentioned. I'd expect such traffic to be much heavier in the 40's-50's. The routing up to D&H territory is a bit obscure to me, if they ran directly up there from PRR points. Possibly they ran by way of Belmont Park service, then over to the NYC; otherwise they could have run on the Jersey side, via Jersey City, but that would imply using NYC's West Shore routing and I'm not sure how late passenger/mail trains ran that way up to the D&H connection at Albany. Certainly it still existed in the 1950's. Seems this could be an interesting field of study of itself, but I think the short answer would be that such cars could quite logicly end up at Saratoga. (A possible info source could be John Nehrich over at the NEB&W site. Those folks have done extensive studies of D&H traffic in the late 'steam era', and could well have some documentation). regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 09:13:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) From: Jerry Britton On 5/9/01 8:58 AM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > Plans and photos for the POC85AR appeared in Rail Northeast. They were > converted P70s. There were two versions - one with the original P70 > windows and the other with large thermopane windows - looking very much > like a round end P70FAR. This latter one is probably the 1954 survivor > which ran on the General. > P70 converts? Interesting!!! Do you recall what issue of Rails Northeast carried the plans? Hank Mummert reported to me off-list that there were four POC85AR's, numbered 1132-1136. The 1949 consist report I reported this morning included #1134. You mention "1954 survivor": The 1954 New York Division "Makeup of Trains" calls for the POC85AR, so two cars, not one, would be required to protect the service (both directions). The same document also calls for a "POC85" for train #21, the "Indianapolis Limited"...but again, no suffix for the class. Only additional research found that "The General"'s car was a "POC85AR". The plans on Rob's site show the large windows. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 09:27:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) From: Jerry Britton On 5/9/01 9:13 AM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: >> Plans and photos for the POC85AR appeared in Rail Northeast. They were >> converted P70s. There were two versions - one with the original P70 >> windows and the other with large thermopane windows - looking very much >> like a round end P70FAR. This latter one is probably the 1954 survivor >> which ran on the General. >> > P70 converts? Interesting!!! Wait a minute...an 85' car converted from a 70' car? Nah, I don't think so! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 09:33:20 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) Jerry, Seems like this is coming together with what you need. By way of notes, the series, according to Wayner, of cars 1132-1136 actually amounted to 5 cars, not 4. Two were used on the Trailblazer, but three were needed for the Jeffersonian, on account of it's longer turn-around time. When the Jeff was dropped, and replaced by the Indy Ltd, the obs cars were assigned to this train. This could be covered by 2 cars, and for awhile there was a spare from the series. One of the Wayner books covers this train as well, but as it ran only a few minutes off the time of the Spirit of St.Louis, it wasn't real long until it became merely a few set-out cars operating in the St.Louis train. How long the former Jeffersonian obs cars lasted in this service I don't know, but it could hardly have been past 1955 or so. Once again, I can certainly check later today. Now, with those GSR sides coming out in HO, a fella has some nice options, as they ran in both the Trailblazer and Jeffersonian. Suppose they'd ever do 'em in N scale for you converts? Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 06:55:58 -0700 On Wed, 09 May 2001 09:27:43 -0400 Jerry Britton wrote: > On 5/9/01 9:13 AM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) > wrote: > > >> Plans and photos for the POC85AR appeared in Rail > Northeast. They were > >> converted P70s. There were two versions - one with the > original P70 > >> windows and the other with large thermopane windows - > looking very much > >> like a round end P70FAR. This latter one is probably > the 1954 survivor > >> which ran on the General. > >> > > P70 converts? Interesting!!! > > Wait a minute...an 85' car converted from a 70' car? Nah, > I don't think so! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing > list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message > "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 06:56:18 -0700 Jerry, Uh... let me look this up... yup... thought so... A P-70 is 80 feet long. Actually 80' 3 3/4". Not 70 feet. Hmmmm.... Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ On Wed, 09 May 2001 09:27:43 -0400 Jerry Britton wrote: > On 5/9/01 9:13 AM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) > wrote: > > >> Plans and photos for the POC85AR appeared in Rail > Northeast. They were > >> converted P70s. There were two versions - one with the > original P70 > >> windows and the other with large thermopane windows - > looking very much > >> like a round end P70FAR. This latter one is probably > the 1954 survivor > >> which ran on the General. > >> > > P70 converts? Interesting!!! > > Wait a minute...an 85' car converted from a 70' car? Nah, > I don't think so! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing > list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message > "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:00:33 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) Jerry said: >Wait a minute...an 85' car converted from a 70' car? Nah, I don't think so! Um Jerry, Get out your calipers and measure a P70 ;^) The designation in the car class did not refer to overall length, but length of the main compartment (or something like that). For example I believe that the MP54 and BM62 are the same length overall. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 10:10:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) From: Jerry Britton On 5/9/01 10:00 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > Jerry said: > >> Wait a minute...an 85' car converted from a 70' car? Nah, I don't think so! > > Um Jerry, > > Get out your calipers and measure a P70 ;^) The designation in the car > class did not refer to overall length, but length of the main compartment > (or something like that). For example I believe that the MP54 and BM62 are > the same length overall. > Yup...forgot the Standard Railroad of the World did not have a standard meaasuring system! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:22:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) In a message dated 5/9/01 9:00:40 AM Central Daylight Time, billd@gci-net.com writes: << A P-70 is 80 feet long. Actually 80' 3 3/4" >> You have hit upon the inconsistency in car classification. The 70 in P70 and most older cars is the length of the passenger compartment not including vestibules. I do not know why Pennsy changed that system in the lightweight era (a misnomer I assume if the POC85 was converted),unless the confusion with cars with one versus two vestibules was a factor. I hadn't thought about it much and when the original Middle Division plans for the P85B were announced over 10 years ago, when they said they were going to also do a POC85R observation, I was thinking (actually I wasn't thinking :-)) it was a new postwar car I wasn't aware of. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:23:42 EDT Subject: [PRR] General-Trailblazer turning (was POC85 ) I have seen the combined General-Trailblazer with the observation-coach section on the headend. Was this just the Philly-NY leg or did they stop turning the train at some point in time? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:25:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] Rivets (was POC85) Unless I missed the answer, I haven't heard a reply as to whether the Laser Horizons sides have rivet detail. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 10:28:57 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] PRR Modelers' Meet At the PRRT&HS meeting John Buroughs talked to several people about the North Shore Model RR Club an what the Santa Fe modelers have done there. John and I are both members of the North Shore Model RR Club in Wakefield Ma. For the last two years, the club has sponsored a Santa Fe Modelers meet. We have drawn up to 40-50 SF people for an all-ATSF operating session on our large, well sceniked HO club layout. The SF folks brought all sorts of beautiful visiting SF equipment for the op session. Now, the NS club models a ficticious RR in the Pocahontas region. We haul lots of coal through the mountains and have a large steel mill and port facilities for shipping the stuff in and out. We certainly match the PRR far better than the SF. (It is kind of sad to see the SF fans declare the steel mill to be an orange grove in a great stretch of their imagination.) So the obvious conclusion was drawn by John and I and the other PRR modelers in the club, that our better match and closer geographic proximity to the prototype, means we should do at least as much for our group. The other club members agreed at our last meeting. So this is a tentative invitaion. Let me know if you are interested in such a PRR weekend at the North Shore Club. If enough people show interest we will make arragements for later this year or early next year. The SF group arranged for several dealers, SF Clinics, and group rates at the local hotel. They even arranged for a "Fred Harvey" dinner at a local restaurant. I'm afraid we have no couterpart to the last item. Our diner would be from the house menu. BTW if you want to see the NS club, we have been in MR twice, most recently in Aug 1999 (I think). We were on the cover with a Chesapeake and Hudson F unit stopped at the Charleston (WV) station. It featured an article on passenger train operation. (BTW, John Burroughs took the cover foto). We also have a website at: http://www.nsmrc.org It show lots of fotos taken at the SF meet. Lets hear it from the NE PRR modelers and fans - a meet at Wakefield Mass! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 10:32:55 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) Sorry about that. You are correct. I was thinking of the POC70s. The POC85s were coach versions of the famous blunt end sleeper-obs's built for the Broadway (2 cars, 2-1) and several other trains (7 cars 2-1-1). But if i'm not mistaken (and would be the second time this morning) these plans also appeared in RNE. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 5/9/01 9:13 AM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > > >> Plans and photos for the POC85AR appeared in Rail Northeast. They were > >> converted P70s. There were two versions - one with the original P70 > >> windows and the other with large thermopane windows - looking very much > >> like a round end P70FAR. This latter one is probably the 1954 survivor > >> which ran on the General. > >> > > P70 converts? Interesting!!! > > Wait a minute...an 85' car converted from a 70' car? Nah, I don't think so! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 10:35:13 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] POC85 Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet) P70s were named for the revenue space between vestibule bulkheads. Later the PRR decided to name car classes for the length between buffers, thus P85. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== billd@gci-net.com wrote: > > Jerry, > > Uh... > > let me look this up... > > yup... > > thought so... > > A P-70 is 80 feet long. Actually 80' 3 3/4". > > Not 70 feet. > > Hmmmm.... > > Bill Daniels > Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 10:41:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Rivets (was POC85) From: Jerry Britton On 5/9/01 10:25 AM, Bobspf@aol.com (Bobspf@aol.com) wrote: > Unless I missed the answer, I haven't heard a reply as to whether the Laser > Horizons sides have rivet detail. > No, they do not. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:56:48 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS e-NEWS A special annual meeting edition of the e-NEWS will be issued tomorrow Thursday, 10 May 2001. Find out what happened during the Board meetings, the annual meeting and at other events. Bob Johnson's Archive Committee report and Dave Scott's financial statements have been posted to the e-NEWS "files" section. In addition Philadelphia Chapter flyers on Pennsy Days and their 25th Anniversary Banquet at Strasburg on June 2-3, 2001 have also been posted to the "files" section. Check out the action at Strasburg. If you are not yet subscribed (its free) you may do so by sending a blank message to: PRRTHSe-NEWS-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Al - Editor "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [CYBER] PRRT&HS e-NEWS Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:56:48 -0400 A special annual meeting edition of the e-NEWS will be issued tomorrow Thursday, 10 May 2001. Find out what happened during the Board meetings, the annual meeting and at other events. Bob Johnson's Archive Committee report and Dave Scott's financial statements have been posted to the e-NEWS "files" section. In addition Philadelphia Chapter flyers on Pennsy Days and their 25th Anniversary Banquet at Strasburg on June 2-3, 2001 have also been posted to the "files" section. Check out the action at Strasburg. If you are not yet subscribed (its free) you may do so by sending a blank message to: PRRTHSe-NEWS-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Al - Editor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This list ("Cyber-Talk") is for discussion of Cyber Chapter (PRRT&HS) business only. All general modeling and/or Pennsy discussion should take place on "PRR-Talk". For assistance with this list, send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To access the "Members Only" section of the web site, click on a link and, when prompted, enter the user name "member" and the password "standardrr". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS e-NEWS Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:56:48 -0400 A special annual meeting edition of the e-NEWS will be issued tomorrow Thursday, 10 May 2001. Find out what happened during the Board meetings, the annual meeting and at other events. Bob Johnson's Archive Committee report and Dave Scott's financial statements have been posted to the e-NEWS "files" section. In addition Philadelphia Chapter flyers on Pennsy Days and their 25th Anniversary Banquet at Strasburg on June 2-3, 2001 have also been posted to the "files" section. Check out the action at Strasburg. If you are not yet subscribed (its free) you may do so by sending a blank message to: PRRTHSe-NEWS-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Al - Editor ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 11:41:54 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Modelers' Meet (It is kind of sad to see the SF fans declare the steel mill to be an orange grove in a great stretch of their imagination.) They should have left it a steel mill. Kaiser steel had a huge mill in Fontana (LA basin out toward San Bernadino) that was later California Steel and is now an auto race track that the ATSF switched hourly through daily. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:09:52 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Modelers' Meet > So this is a tentative invitaion. Let me know if you are interested in >such a PRR weekend at the North Shore Club. If enough people show >interest we will make arragements for later this year or early next >year. Andy, Sounds like a great idea! I'd love to attend but the obligations are starting to build up...and its a bit of a haul... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] General-Trailblazer turning Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:27:28 -0400 Bob, I don't think it was run backward to Philly and then reversed because it wouldn't have gone to 30th St. It would have stopped at "North Philadelphia the only stop in Philadelphia". Wouldn't the NY and Wash. sections join in Harrisburg? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 14:48:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] General-Trailblazer turning From: Jerry Britton On 5/9/01 2:27 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > I don't think it was run backward to Philly and then reversed because it > wouldn't have gone to 30th St. It would have stopped at "North Philadelphia > the only stop in Philadelphia". > > Wouldn't the NY and Wash. sections join in Harrisburg? > As of 1954, there was no Washington section for this train, nor were cars added/removed at Harrisburg for interchange to Washington trains. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:05:29 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] General-Trailblazer turning Jerry, You're correct on the Washington section in your era. I don't think that train started carrying Washington cars until the Liberty Ltd fell out of that market in one of the big shuffles taking place around 1957. It definitely had a Washington section by the late 50's, as I inadvertently got stuck on the DC segment while my family was on the Philley/NY main section around that time. Gave me a real scare, being 10 or 12 years old, but nothing serious happened thanks to the good old Pennsy personnel of the time. The crewmen always seemed to be much more courteous and amiable than their reputation sometimes implies. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 20:36:15 -0400 Subject: [PRR] FW: B28s Information Needed From: Jerry Britton ---------- From: "Chuck Friedlein" Reply-To: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 15:35:59 -0700 To: "Jerry Britton" Subject: B28s Information Needed Greetings to the List, I'm looking for some information regarding some painting details on B28s 0-6-0 switchers that are not addressed in the PR&IA (former name of the PRRT&HS) Special Publication #1. "The Painting of P.R.R. Locomotives and Tenders". Can anybody help me out, please? 1. What is the closest commercially available paint that would match "ordinary medium green" for the cab interior color? 2. How high are the numerals on the loco cab, and what was the horizontal length of the four digits of the number ? 4. Was there any other lettering on the loco cab--if so what was it, where was it, and what style and size lettering was used? 5. How high are the letters in PEN....NIA on the tender, and what was the horizontal length of the entire word? 6. Since these were freight switchers, would the outside window sashes possibly have been painted the "Dark Orange" color prior to 1938 and lasting through the 1938-1940 time frame possibly until a major loco or cab repaint was needed? Is there any known photo proof to this if the answer is "yes"? The book sort of implies the sashes were not "Dark Orange" at all on these types of locos, but it's not specifically stated one way or the other. Any help that anyone can provide in filling in these gaps of my knowledge would be most appreciated. Since this request is being forwarded to the list for me as the HTML function of my software can't be disabled, I will not be able to reply to the list in thanks for any help given, but if you include your e-mail address I'll try to reply off list to all who respond. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http