Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 01:57:16 -0500 From: Phil Tripician Subject: [PRR] PRSL & SFL Memories Charles Burnley triggered some very fond memories of the PRSL as I grew up in Pleasantville and am about ten years older than he is. I witnessed the Consolidations switching in the Pleasantville yard behind the Junior High School on Washington Avenue. (I believe they were H-8's, but could be wrong). The crews were moderately friendly as long as you didn't get too close when they were doing the "flying switch" maneuver. The industries they services were the Peter Lumber Co, the Lake & Risley Lumber Co (tel #2), the McAlister "Blue Coal" Co, and lineside industries to Somers Point. Other memories include the magnificent concrete bridge and trestle over Shore Road in Absecon that was built in a grade elimination project. (I believe it was over one mile long). The American Bridge over the throrofare into the Atlantic City passenger yard throat, the Atlantic Tower, and the Chelsea and Mediterranean in-street freight branches are others I recall. I was too young to remember the Reading coming through Pleasantville at track speed, but I do remember the stories from my Dad. We lived on Mississippi Avenue in the summer. The track in the street was for the Shore Fast Line Trolley that ran off shore to Pleasantville, Northfield, Linwood, Somers Point, and Ocean City. Many a penny we flattened under those wheels as well as the B-6sb switcher that brought theatrical baggage cars, and other rolling stock to Convention Hall for the Ice Capades, shows, and conventions. I remember my mother "blessing" the switcher when it would puff some black smoke over her laundry hanging on the line. This happened despite the efforts of the fireman to reduce it with the blower and a lighter fire. The wait for traffic at cross streets was just too much for it. The passenger station in Atlantic City was my first exposure to the PRSL as we lived in Upper Darby, PA and spent summers on Mississippi Avenue only one block across Missouri Avenue to the eight track station, roundhouse and coach yard along Bacharach Blvd. On Track 8 was the Blue Comet of the Jersey Central (AC to JCY) and also the PRSL doodlebugs 400 & 401, (the latter ran to Newfield after the cessation of electric service with MP-54's). But track 1 was the place to be when the K-4's and E-6's would bring in their consists from Camden. The air pumps with their "dum dump, dum dump" pounding sound, the smell of steam and oil and grease and hot brake shoes on an even hotter summer day will never leave my memory banks. The fireman would lean out the window and look over the crowd (and especially the girls) that would stream by on the platform. The engineer would also join him on the deck.The road engine would cut off on the escape track (#2) if it were clear and the B-6sb switcher would tie on to the rear and move the cars to the coach yard for servicing. Track 1 was the primary inbound track because of the hotel transportation connection. The limosines were lined up at a 45' angle to the platform under gold lettered green metal signs the proclaiming the best hotels on the seashore. Names such as Traymore, Shelburne, Claridge, Chalfonte, Haddon Hall, Marlborough-Blenheim, and Dennis to name but a few. All grand, all elegant and very classy. The limos were Packards, LaSalles, Buicks, Cadillacs, and other equally big beautiful black vehicles. As quickly as they could load people, they would be off clearing the platform in quick time. Of course, there were the common folk, (like me) who either walked to our "hotel" or went to Atlantic Avenue (through Columbus Park) to catch a trolley or Pacific Avenue to board a "Jitney" (more limo type vehicles with overhead ropes to close the rear doors from the drivers seat). I remember standing at the yard end of Tracks 4 and 5 waiting for the outbound trains to leave. It was great fun when the safety valves would pop as the steam pressure was right on the needle prior to departure. The engineer would open the cylinder cocks and a great cloud of dense swirling white steam would envelop the area. If it were a long train, there might be some limited wheel slipping as the engineer was quick to react. That was some show as with a wave of the hand he was off to Philadelphia (60 miles away) My Uncle Charlie would take me to the roundhouse (he had a friend there) and I rode the turntable in a K-4. One Sunday, we went there at my request because it was a special day and I could do anything I wanted. I had a marvelous time enjoying every minute of my Confirmation Sunday in my white silk suit (originally), but upon returning home it had turned a grimy shade of black. I don't think I've ever seen my Mother that mad, both at me and my Uncle Charlie. There are many more fond recollections that I have, but if anyone has a continuing interest, I would recommend two publications. First, "the Bible" on the PRSL as far as I 'm concerned is "By Rail to the Boardwalk" by Richard Gladulich. Unfortunately, he passed away a few years ago in the prime of his life. The second is equally authentic on the Shore Fast Line trolleys entitled "We Had A Shore Fast Line". It is written by Melvin Borgnis of Pleasantville who was a motorman on the line. I'd like to hear from more of you who have warm feelings on the PRSL or SFL. Thanks, Phil Tripician ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 04:13:42 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70 Coach HO-Models Jerry, list, For starters, my givens and druthers. I model the New York and Long Branch RR, I don't have a layout of my own, and I like to build kits. I prefer the Eastern Car Works kits, although I also like most of my Bachmann P70s (the pinkish color on the first run P70s and the swiveling draft gear boxes that droop are my issues, but these problems can be fixed pretty easily). I like the myriad of options the ECW kit gives you (now that I have enough reference books to figure out what all of those little boxes are). I like adding exactly the level of detail that I want. I started buying ECW kits when they were still made by Alco Models. Oddly, I didn't have problems assembling the trucks until years later; some of my first few P70s have the original trucks with Kadee wheelsets and they roll beautifully. Go figure. On all of my recent ECW P70s, I've had excruciating difficulty with the trucks. I replace the trucks with MDC/Roundhouse's 2935 Commonwealth truck, which is a PRR 2EP5. Before someone says these are for P70FBRs only (which, to be fair, is pretty accurate), as of 1954 they were under P70s 3525, 3578, 3594, 3602, 3714, and a few one and two car subclasses. Having said that, I'm glad I model the New York and Long Branch; the P70FBR was a very common car on that line (I'm still ironing out when exactly they became so prevalent; there were oodles in the 60s and 70s, but I'm not 100% sure about their abundance in 1948). The P70FBR has been around since at least the 1940s, so just about anyone can use them. The Bachmann P70s are not air conditioned; you'll have to add details and change the roof detailing to add these features (ECW sells their P70 detail sprue separately, making this possible for those so inclined). ECW includes a generic location diagram for the parts in their kits; it's handy (I used it before I started modeling specific cars from photos, which may not be for everyone; your preferences may vary). As always, there's more work involved in building a kit, but I enjoy this part of the hobby a lot. The latest Bachmann P70s in the "prewar" scheme are pretty nice. I repaint the underbodies and trucks black, change out the couplers for Kadees (optional, but I like Kadees a lot) and let them roll. Less effort, but less fun in my book. One final note: The ECW cars are flat kits. They come out of the box with the sides and floor warped. This is initially scary; you've just spent $22 or so for a warped undecorated kit. Take a deep breath, wash everything to get the oil off, and let it dry. There are grooves in the sides for the floor. I use liquid plastic cement for assembly, and as I fit the side and floor together, everything aligns correctly. Magical, especially when the first one I built was at the tender age of 16 and 20 dollars for one passenger car was a lot of money at the time. As an aside, I bought a few of the very ancient JC Models P70s with metal sides new in the box as recently as 1994. I like them, but they're not nearly as well detailed as the much more recent plastic cars. Doug --- Colman Gerald wrote, in part: > To List: > > I would like opinions on who makes the best HO P-70 > Coaches, other than > brass. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:28:31 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] B-60 lettering Walt, I model the same era and lettered all of my Bethlehem B60s in your scheme B in gold. I believe the "cove" letters disappeared in the 30s. I can't recall seeing fotos of B60s repainted in Dulux until they were relettered "P.R.R." with the Scotchlite herald in the 60s. I don't think head end equipment got repainted very often. BTW, I recessed the doors on my B60s. It makes a world of difference. Bethlehem flat cast the side and apparently could not recess the doors. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Walt Prusick wrote: > > Guys, > Started working on a couple of Bethlehem Car Works B-60 kits and the > lettering is a stumbling block. The decals supplied are by Middel Division, > and they show 4 configurations in their diagram. Now it is my intention to > model an undecided portion of the Pennsy in the western PA area around 1952. > Which of the configs do I follow. > (A) Dulux - PRR Block with round P and S > (B) Bronze Gold or Dulux same style as A above > (C) Bronze Gold - PRR Futura > (D) Bronze Gold - PRR Block with 'cove' P and S. > My thinking is lettering B with a recently outshopped car in Dulux with the > balance in Bronze Gold. I would greatly appreciate input before I make a > major bobo. Thanks in advance. > > Walt Prusick > > BTW the above kits were bought at Jerry's consignment section, and included > trucks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:25:16 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] B-60 lettering Walt asks: >Which of the configs do I follow. >(A) Dulux - PRR Block with round P and S >(B) Bronze Gold or Dulux same style as A above >(C) Bronze Gold - PRR Futura >(D) Bronze Gold - PRR Block with 'cove' P and S. Walt, (D) is pre-war only (C) is 1939-1941 (ish) 1952 might be even a little early for (B)...I need to check my PRRT&HS book, but by and large I would go with (A) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:03:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] B-60 lettering In a message dated 3/1/01 8:23:15 AM Central Standard Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << BTW, I recessed the doors on my B60s. >> Extra work, but good idea. I've got two to build and I'll try it on the first one. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:27:33 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Web Site(s) Down From: Jerry Britton The following web sites are down for unplanned, but minor, maintenance: PENNSYRR.COM RAILFANCENTRAL.COM DSOP.COM etc. Just letting everyone know before FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) takes over!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:28:24 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR]PRR memories and the DT&I on Penn Central In a message dated Wed, 28 Feb 2001 5:10:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, Mark Bej writes: << LINESWEST@aol.com scribit: > The Pnahandle mainline betweeen Dayton and Richmond, Ind., and between Richmond and Indianapolis > is completely gone Tom, Rick, was not part of this bought and still used by N&W/NS? -- Mark >> Nope. What I'm talking about was built as the Indiana Central that ran from Indianapolis through Greencastle and Dunreith, western end of the Columbus Division, to Richmond. The Confolk Souther...er NS took over a line built by either the Chicago Great Eastern or Chicago & Indiana Central running northwest out of Richmond to Anderson or Marion, I forget which, where it connects with a direct line to Chicago. The NS operates the PRR's Richmond & Cincinnati, the old western approach to the Queen City through Eaton, Camden and Hamilton west and southwest of Dayton as the final leg of its Chicago-Cincinnati mainline. This line sees heavy intermodal traffic. I first saw road railers on this line. For some reason Camden in southern Preble County about 20 miles southwest of Dayton seems to have more than its fair share of grade crossing accidents and derailments. The village council has threatened NS with enforcing a village speed limit on the line, as allowed by Ohio law. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:44:44 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: Athearn Ad Hmmmmmm, could this be the cantankerous crumudgeon Greg Martin that we've come to know and ... Gee, Greg, "best ever" sounds pretty good so I won't be so crass as to point out the relatively short time the current management has been in control. Ribbing light is off. It's a great honor and couldn't have gone to a better modeler. Congrats. Seriously, now. In the past Athearn's owners have said that they were in the business of selling finished locomotives and not parts and for a while replacement parts or parts for bashing became hard to get. Does this Ad campaign signal a willingness to let that line run just a little longer to get those parts we kit bashers will need? Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 11:10:20 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: AOL 6.0, MIME/HTML Formatting - Solution? From: Jerry Britton To all who use AOL 6.0: Several months ago software was added to the listserv so that it rejects posts sent in the MIME/HTML format. While an annoyance to many, hitting the Delete key was a viable alternative. However, more recent viruses, which typically affect only Windows users , are being spread via MIME/HTML attachments, usually without the senders knowledge. This change on my listserv has stopped the "potential" for spreading viruses of this type. Unfortunately, it has left many AOL 6 users unable to send legitimate posts. As previously discussed, AOL 6 uses MIME/HTML as its default and there is no way to turn it off, according to AOL support. AOL has also confirmed that it has received many complaints over this, from both their users and listmasters. AOL's Support recommends setting your font to Arial, 10 point, and make sure you do not use Bold, Underline, Italic, or any change of fonts anywhere in your document. In most cases, listserv's will not see resulting posts as being in MIME/HTML. Be sure to check your signature file as well!!! Okay, here are two possible other solutions: 1) Drop AOL. (Okay, so maybe I am only offering one solution!) 2) I can't test this, but in earlier version of AOL, you could use AOL to make your connection to the Internet. Once connected, however, you could use whatever client software you preferred, over AOL's built-in software. If this is still the case, I would recommend installing Microsoft Outlook Express, which I guarantee will work with the lists. Worth a try. Perhaps someone can confirm (off-list) that this is still possible. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Listmaster ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:38:21 EST Subject: [PRR] TEST MESSAGE - With Permission of the Listmaster This is a test message of AOL4 with nonstandard font, bold,underline. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] TEST MESSAGE - With Permission of the Listmaster Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:56:00 -0500 Well I got it, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:38 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] TEST MESSAGE - With Permission of the Listmaster This is a test message of AOL4 with nonstandard font, bold,underline. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: AOL 6.0, MIME/HTML Formatting - Solution? Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:20:35 -0500 Would another possible solution be to get one of the many free e-mails offered that use the internet? I have a couple of them and have no problem with them. Doesn't cost anything and gets around (I think) the problems with AOL. And free is certainly cheaper than AOL! Let me know if anyone know for sure that this works. TIA Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" ; "Conrail-Talk LIST" ; "Reading-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:10 AM Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: AOL 6.0, MIME/HTML Formatting - Solution? > To all who use AOL 6.0: > > Several months ago software was added to the listserv so that it rejects > posts sent in the MIME/HTML format. While an annoyance to many, hitting the > Delete key was a viable alternative. However, more recent viruses, which > typically affect only Windows users , are being spread via MIME/HTML > attachments, usually without the senders knowledge. > > This change on my listserv has stopped the "potential" for spreading viruses > of this type. > > Unfortunately, it has left many AOL 6 users unable to send legitimate posts. > As previously discussed, AOL 6 uses MIME/HTML as its default and there is no > way to turn it off, according to AOL support. AOL has also confirmed that it > has received many complaints over this, from both their users and > listmasters. > > AOL's Support recommends setting your font to Arial, 10 point, and make sure > you do not use Bold, Underline, Italic, or any change of fonts anywhere in > your document. In most cases, listserv's will not see resulting posts as > being in MIME/HTML. Be sure to check your signature file as well!!! > > Okay, here are two possible other solutions: > > 1) Drop AOL. (Okay, so maybe I am only offering one solution!) > > 2) I can't test this, but in earlier version of AOL, you could use AOL to > make your connection to the Internet. Once connected, however, you could use > whatever client software you preferred, over AOL's built-in software. If > this is still the case, I would recommend installing Microsoft Outlook > Express, which I guarantee will work with the lists. > > Worth a try. Perhaps someone can confirm (off-list) that this is still > possible. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Listmaster > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 15:53:34 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Mailing From: Jerry Britton I just heard from Chuck Blardone that the convention mailing just went to the printers today...with the convention only nine weeks away!!! He expects to have it back mid-next week and in the mail by the end of next week (3/9). Geez, mass mail takes up to two weeks!!! They sure are cutting it close, especially for vendors wishing to reserve tables!!! I will contact the coordinator this evening to see if I can get the files so as to create a PDF file we can distribute online. I've done this the past few years and people have used it, especially those overseas who may get this mailing a month after the convention!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:30:58 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Humbrol paint Can someone tell me which Humbrol paint matches Pullman Green and which Humbrol paint matches Tuscan Red? Thanks, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 17:05:36 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Humbrol paint Aaahhh, Geoff, I see you've been bitten by the Pennsy bug. You're showing all the signs of becoming a true "SPF," a "Serious Pennsy Fan" in polite society or a "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" to others. Caring about the difference between grimy soiled "Brunswick Green" and black is a reverisble condition until the affected person begins referring to the color of PRR Freight Locomotives after 1954 and all motive power before 1954 as "DGLE," Pennsylvanian for "Dark Green Locomotive Enamel" as the paint color is called on tracings of the lettering diagrams. Tuscan is not that difficult to duplicate but trying to recreate what the uninitiated call "Oxide Red" but which is formally "Freight Car Color" will drive you mad. It was mixed up separately by the shops doing the repainting so there is a marked variation in the tone and tint of FCC as geographical area and time period change. As you are interested in the GG-1s, I doubt you will have much interest in that "other Pennsylvania Railroad" I described in my PRR memories post of Feb. 27, 2001. Welcome aboard to "The Standard Railway of the World," Tom V. In a message dated Thu, 1 Mar 2001 4:43:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, Geoffrey Van Dooren writes: << Can someone tell me which Humbrol paint matches Pullman Green and which Humbrol paint matches Tuscan Red? Thanks, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:31:20 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Memories I am posting the following message on the subject from Jerry Finefrock: I grew up in Alliance, OH in the 1940's, where the main crossed the C&P. My grandfather served on the Erie and the PRR from 1889-1950, starting as a call boy and ending as a passinger conducter when he was killed in service at the age of 70. Memories: for some reason the PRR kept an 0-4-0 at Alliance and had since the days that all of the fleet either dropped or picked up a diner at Alliance and Pat, another old-timer, allowing me to sit on his lap as he ran her; southbound [EB by timetable] ore trains with 100 cars and 2 N1s's on the point with one as a snapper and standing close enough to touch the engines as they passed the station, talk about shaking the ground and raw power; riding to Cleveland and Pittsburg behind K4s's; Q's and J's on the main with loooooong trains; going down to the station close to midnight to see the Broadway come through [did you ever see a T1 lose her footing on a wet diamond at 60 mph]; sitting in my room on a warm summer night and hearing the lonely sound [T.S Eliot was right] of an EB K4s blowing for all the crossings. 1st Sawberg Rd, then Mechanic St and the NYC crossing, then one for the station and the C&P, and finally Patterson ST., and, oh yes running to see the Red Arrow with diesels on the point since they would never last. I had an opportunity to go into engine service when I was 18 but decided on college and law school, yet sometimes I hear a diesel sound for a crossing and wonder. Jerry Finefrock (via Bob Zoeller) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:51:45 EST Subject: [PRR] Conrail annual reports Hello List. Is there any one on the list that may have xtra or doubles of Conrail annual reports that may wish to sell them. I am looking for 1978,1979,1984 & 1988. This will complete my Conrail years and give me a complete 55 year set starting with PRR in 1945 through PC and into NS 1999. The only ones not there are the bankrupt years of Penn Central 1970 to 1975 although a report was put out in 1973 which outlined the bankruptcy and the 1972 Agnes Flood. Please contact off list. Thanks to all. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:57:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR Vs NYC "The Great Race" Hello List, A conversation came up this morning in an email I had. I mentioned the famous race of the PRR and NYC out of Englewood, Ill. The setting had the PRR and NYC Trackage vitually side by side. I was wondering how long this section of trackage actually was. Less than a mile, more than a mile? Anyone know for sure? Plenty of photos show this race. Most times it shows a Double Headed K4 prepared for the fast trip east to NYCity versus a lone NYC J1 or J3 Hudson prepaing to take their train via the northern water level route into NYCity. Sure bet it was fun to watch as the engineers poured on the steam to get their train out ahead of the competeing railroad. Once the Diesel era hit, E7 or E8 lashups versus E7 or E8 lashups just wouldnt have had the same effect.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Day" Subject: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:10:40 -0500 Maybe I failed to read the answers, but recently there was a discussion involving whether or not the PRR used telltales. Also I am wondering about the differences between an N5c and an N5b. Thanks, Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:20:33 -0500 Doug, The PRR used Tell-tales but called them by a different name. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Doug Day [mailto:dougday@1st.net] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 11:11 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Maybe I failed to read the answers, but recently there was a discussion involving whether or not the PRR used telltales. Also I am wondering about the differences between an N5c and an N5b. Thanks, Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:32:52 EST From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Vs NYC "The Great Race" The parallel stretch runs from Englewood to just east of Cline Ave. in Indiana. If you have a Chicago area map it is roughly from where I-90 joins I-94 east to route 912 in indiana. Without measuring it is roughly 5-6 miles that they are in close proximity. Englewood station had a fire many years ago. I was last there about 20 years ago and it is definitely not a safe area for more than one reason. The PRR tracks exist over to Whiting, Indiana at the Amoco refinery. The tracks have all been taken up from Whiting to the Calumet river with the exception of one industrial track directly behind the refinery which was part of the main. The signal bridges are still there but the position light targets have all been removed. At Whiting which is about half way to Cline Avenue the NYC main makes a large S curve and goes over along the shoreline of Lake Michigan but can be seen from the PRR main. The PRR bridges over the Calumet river are virtually inaccesible as the tracks cut ! through the Inland Steel plant a bout 250 yards south of the NYC main which is still a great place to phtograph trains. The EJ&E and NYC/CR/CSX bascule bridges are still in operation. Directly south of the NYC bridge are two CSX bridges which have been out of service for the 22 years I have been in the Chicago area with no tracks attached at either end. The PRR main has been taken up completely through Inland Steel Company and in East Chicago where the split is up to about 1/4 mile but the real big split occurs in Gary where the PRR heads SE to Valparaiso and the NYC heads east along the lakeshore. Cline Avenue was made a limited acces highway and fill was placed over the PRR mains about 15-17 years ago. A picture I took of it was cut from Trains at the last minute and my 15 minutes of fame was lost forever. There was a garnite PRR station in gary that was torn down probably 20 years ago. There used to be about eight tracks that crossed route 20 in gary inclusing a couple that were N&W. Today various r! ecreation facilities have been b uilt on the old right of way in East Chicago including tennis and basketball courts. My understanding is that the race occured very infrequently as the Century usually left 1/2 hour before the Broadway. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:57:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR Vs NYC "The Great Race" Hello List, A conversation came up this morning in an email I had. I mentioned the famous race of the PRR and NYC out of Englewood, Ill. The setting had the PRR and NYC Trackage vitually side by side. I was wondering how long this section of trackage actually was. Less than a mile, more than a mile? Anyone know for sure? Plenty of photos show this race. Most times it shows a Double Headed K4 prepared for the fast trip east to NYCity versus a lone NYC J1 or J3 Hudson prepaing to take their train via the northern water level route into NYCity. Sure bet it was fun to watch as the engineers poured on the steam to get their train out ahead of the competeing railroad. Once the Diesel era hit, E7 or E8 lashups versus E7 or E8 lashups just wouldnt have had the same effect.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "mandp" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:54:32 -0500 N5b cabins had square windows and square cupola, while the N5c had eight porthole windows on the sides, four each side, and a larger streamlined cupola. N5b had a horizontal belt rail and a vertical butt strip, while the N5c had a higher horizontal belt rail and no vertical butt strip. Although the vertical height is the same from rail head to top of cupola, the N5c was longer, both had the same overall width. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:58:08 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] PRR Wire Trains Hello all, I periodically ask these questions about some of the cars that made up the PRR's wire trains, and since its been a while since I last asked... 1) I am looking for any information on the mechanism for raising and lowering the platform on the tower/scaffold cars that were based on the FM flat car. I am aware of the published photos and Al Buchan graciously copied a couple of photos of these cars, but I cannot figure out the actual mechanism! Photos, drawings etc would be GREAT! I had hoped that Railworks would release this car soon, but they are on "indefinite hold" so I guess I'm scratchbuilding (based on a Sunshine FM flat). 2) Does anyone have drawings or photographs of class XL #492338, a wire train riding car, or any of its sisters (if there were any). The car appears briefly in the video "Pennsy Steam and Electric Years, vol 1" on the Thorndale wire train, along with an XL Tool car equipped with a pantograph. Al Buchan sent me a copy of a photo of the left side of this car but I would love end photos and the other side. The car has an unusual window arrangement that does not match the other XL riding cars, a pantograph, a cupola (which although it superficially looks like an N5 cupola is too small to be one) and a rear platform, with caboose (N5 style) steps. I was lobbying Al Westerfield at the Prototype Rails meet in Cocoa to produce this car...and he seemed to be somewhat receptive . Of course, the down side is that an appropriate scale pantograph for this car will cost more than a Westerfield kit! (I offered to devise scratchbuilding instructions and templates...). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:49:46 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Vs NYC "The Great Race" Dear NDBPRR Yes you are right, the PRR signal bridges are still intact at Englewood, IL and eleswhere along that stretch of what is now N&W track. BUT ! ! ! I'm here to tell you that (Tankfully) the position light targets (at least at Englewood) are also still intact and in operation ! ! ! This is as of last week . . . and I have pictures to prove this if anyones interested. You're right, this is a bad section of town for many reasons. . . but if you whatch youself you can get in and out and get any pictures you may want (need) to take. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 17:02:22 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Doug, Built in 1941 and 1942 the 200 N5c cabin cars were commonly called the "porthole" or "lionel" cabin car. The most pronounced spotting characteristics setting it apart from the rest of the N5 class were its round "porthole" windows two in eithe side and in either end and it's slightly off center streamlined cupola. Two hundred N5b were built new between 1939 and 1941. It represented a refining and updating of the 1914 N5 design. The main spotting point was that its riveted belt rail and windows were higher than on the 700 or so N5 cabins built between 1914 and 1924. An N5b also had AB braked with vetically mounted brake wheels mounted on stands inside the end platforms. The end sills with anti-climbers were greatly renforced and four 8-inch I-beams were used as end posts on each platform, greatly enhancing the protection of train crew during collisons. As delivered the rode the PRR's "single spring" cabin car truck. The N5a was a five car subclass in which N5 cabins were outfitted with Dureya "sliding" cushioned underframes and visually not discernable from the N5. This was also the case with the single car N5d subclass which also varied only in the type of underframe. I forget the vendor's name. Also a single car subclass, the N5E was a fore runner of the N8. rebuilt from a wrecked N5 in 1945, the N5e had the slightly offset (13") streamlined cupola of the N8 and four sets of paired side windows. The N5f cabins were all assigned to the Delmarva area and had a N8 style tool box installed on the fireman's side. Only the N5, N5b and N5c had trainphone antenna installed on numerous cars. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:37:05 -0800 (PST) From: george carey Subject: [PRR] PRR equipment questions Doug et al: Help I just saw a photo of cabin car numbered 22841. It appears to be an N5b (square windows, square cupola). However, it is marked "BLT 2-41 N5C." Is this for real or is it a private owner's imaginative re-numbering and re-paint job? Picture can be seen at http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr22841.jpg GDC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR equipment questions Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 17:27:24 -0500 George:- First, the number is WRONG for PRR, it should be in the 477000 series I believe. The 22000 series number is PENN CENTRAL. Looking at the windows, it looks like one of the N5 cars rebuilt by the PRR in the late 1960s and painted orange. The lettering looks slightly amateurish, but I've seen worse come out of railroad shops. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "george carey" To: Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 3:37 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR equipment questions > Doug et al: > > Help > > I just saw a photo of cabin car numbered 22841. It > appears to be an N5b (square windows, square cupola). > However, it is marked "BLT 2-41 N5C." > Is this for real or is it a private owner's > imaginative re-numbering and re-paint job? > > Picture can be seen at > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr22841.jpg > > GDC > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 17:37:09 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Doug, Nope, just find pictures of cabins with trainphones and note their number and remember that the static of high voltage rendered then useless under catenary. Hmmmm, eight N5 cabins maybe leaning a bit heavily to one class. Howver, the N5 was the second most numerous cabin car on the Pennsylvania system. Accordig to Robert Johnston and Gary Roach's "Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania Railroad" in the Dec. 1973 issue of the Keystone on May 15, 1957 there was somewhere around 680 N5 cabins (684 is the number I rember. Please verify this before repating) in service systemwide on the PRR. On tnat day there also in service 825 N6, all but one N6a assigned to the Chicago Terminal division were N6b cabins, 200 N8, 199 N5c, 200 N5b, 12 NX23, 9 N5f, 4 Nd bobbers, 4 N5a, 1 N5e, 1 N5d, 1 N4. There is a searchable database of PRR cabin cars on Jerry Britton's Keystone Crossings PRR website. A location search will disclose the class and road number of cabin cars assigned to a sprcific location, say Xenia, Ohio; Grand Rapids, Mich., or Peoria, Ill. during the late 1950s. A litle more than a simple majority of N5 cabins were on lines west of Pittsburgh in May 1957 and a little more than a simple majority of N6b cabins could be found on Lines West of Pittsburgh & Erie -- respectively the lines which approved these designs and first placed then in service in 1914. The N5c, N5b and N8, 599 in all, were clustered for mainline, hot shot service in the along the New York-Chicago; New York-Washington D.C., lines and in the Pittsburgh area and heavily industrialized Northeast Ohio, all the NDs and NX23s were in the Pittsburgh region while, if I remember right, there were no N5c cabins assigned to the Lake Region and very few N8 cabins, if any, assiogned to the Southwest Region (again, I'm pulling this off the top of my head in a public library away from any PRR reference material. Please verify these numbers before repeating them). Remember that not all N5, N5b, N5c, and N8 cabin cars were outfitted with the induction trainphone. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 17:49:31 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: [PRR] 22841 not a cabin car number Sorry, George, It seems this is a fantasy paint job. All PRR cabin cars had six-digit car numbers beginning with a 4, a 7 or a 9. I'm fairly sure that the 22000 series was used on a box car or open hopper. I don't have my sources so I can't tell you which one. It was not a cabin car and N5c cabins did not have square side windows. Tom V. In a message dated Sat, 3 Mar 2001 3:45:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, george carey writes: << Doug et al: Help I just saw a photo of cabin car numbered 22841. It appears to be an N5b (square windows, square cupola). However, it is marked "BLT 2-41 N5C." Is this for real or is it a private owner's imaginative re-numbering and re-paint job? Picture can be seen at http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr22841.jpg GDC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 20:40:09 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] 22841 not a cabin car number In a message dated 3/3/01 5:57:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, LINESWEST@aol.com writes: > just saw a photo of cabin car numbered 22841, it is marked "BLT 2-41 N5C." > Is this for real or is it a private owner's imaginative re-numbering and re-paint job? Quite possibly using the build date as the road #? Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 21:01:05 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] 22841 not a cabin car number Not the built date but the PC/CR number . The 22841 was the PC /CR number of the ex PRR 477706 built 6/41. It is a class N-5B car . In May 1957 it was assigned to the Buckeye Region , Richmond Local pool. The car was renumbered and repainted PC on 11/8/68. Was repainted for CR on 1/13/77 and was sold by Conrail in 8/89. Hope this helps ---------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:14:23 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Mastro Subject: [PRR] Does an erection drawing exist for a G26/G26A? Hello all, I am hoping that someone can help me. I am in search of a G26 and/or a G26A erection drawing if one exists. I am willing to pay for an original or a copy. Thank you in advance for any help you can provide. Regards, Dan Mastro __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 07:08:16 -0500 Group, Here is a link to a website I found. I am in question of the last photo saying this engine is 6776? Could anybody help me I Saw a picture in Pennsy Power 2 of 6776 and it was an M1a or b Any info would be greatly appreciated. Link http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/class_m.htm Thanks Sam Vastano _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "GAS" Subject: [PRR] N5-c cabin Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 05:50:43 -0800 One thing for sure is the photo is not of a N5c cabin car. Without getting out the guide on cabin cars I can't say for sure which class it was originally. It is of the N5 class but not the "c". It obviously is rebuilt. So I would say N5a or maybe N5b. As for the built date. N5c s were built in the early 1940s, N8's 1950. In the hopper class even if the car is rebuilt it retains its' original built date. I believe this is true for all classes of rolling stock. Unless that is different for the cabin cars the built date on the car is incorrect for the PRR even if it was rebuilt. Maybe someone can shed some light on the process of redating built dates when cars are rebuilt. Greg Stone PRRT&HS member with special interest in the Renovo Yards. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 15:18:11 -0500 Ed, Grouyp, Would anybody know what engine # that is pictured? Thanks Sam >From: PRR5499@att.net >To: "Sam Vastano" >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? >Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 15:49:12 +0000 > > Mr Vastano, > The engine pictured as #6776 is not that >number.It is a M-1 #6800 to #6999. Also #6779 was a M-1b. > > Ed Case > Columbus > > Group, > > > > Here is a link to a website I found. I am in question of the last photo > > saying this engine is 6776? Could anybody help me I Saw a picture in >Pennsy > > Power 2 of 6776 and it was an M1a or b Any info would be greatly > > appreciated. > > > > Link http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/class_m.htm > > > > Thanks > > > > Sam Vastano > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 15:30:46 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - Potential Break In Service Due To Weather From: Jerry Britton Just a "heads up" to all that our servers are located in southcentral Pennsylvania, where up to 20" of snow is expected by Tuesday. At this time we only have about 3", but it is the heavy type, so downed trees are inevitable. With this comes the prospect for interruptions in electric or telco service which, in turn, could lead to your inability to reach the lists or web sites of DSOP.COM PENNSYRR.COM RAILFANCENTRAL.COM BRASSTRAINS.NET MODELRAILROADNEWS.COM WIRINGFORDCC.COM etc. Our unavailability online should not be construed as an untimely demise... we will be back!!! -------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. http://www.dsop.com listmaster@dsop.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 22:05:38 -0500 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. "george carey" wrote: > I just saw a photo of cabin car numbered 22841. It > appears to be an N5b (square windows, square cupola). > However, it is marked "BLT 2-41 N5C." > Is this for real or is it a private owner's > imaginative re-numbering and re-paint job? > > Picture can be seen at > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr22841.jpg The caboose in question is on display in Steubenville, Ohio. I've seen it before while chasing ore trains down the ex-PRR River Line. I think it's right off of Route 7 in the downtown area. -JWJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 21:39:16 -0600 Hi Sam--The photograph you cited makes for a great "case study" of PRR Mountains. The outside steam pipes between the cylinders and smokebox show that it is an M1. The photo is captioned incorrectly; M1a or M1b would be in the 6700 series, M1 in the 6800 or 6900 series. (The Staufer Rule emerges again: Never trust the caption on a PRR photo!) There is quite a bit of interesting info to be gleaned from this photo. First of all, the engine is in a "transition" configuration. It has the headlight on top of the smokebox with the generator in the original headlight position, but notice that there are two work platforms on the front: the original on top of the air tank and a smaller platform mounted to the smokebox front. By the mid-fifties both of these would be replaced with a single larger platform on the smokebox front. The engine also has a bar--or chicken coop--pilot. This, together with the 130P75 tender, may indicate the engine had been assigned to passenger service. It may be in this repair/storage line after being bumped from passenger service by the new EP20's. Unless this engine is 6861, that pilot would probably be replaced with a more "modern" drop coupler style. Other modernized appliances are also evident. The power reverse has been updated with an integral air reservoir, and the marker lights have been updated to the small "slotted lens" type. These may have been retained until retirement or updated again with the small single round lens type. The engine ahead is also probably an M1--note the Kiesel tender with four wheel trucks and doghouse. Wish we could read the number on the keystone. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 23:01:08 -0500 Sam, I downloaded that from the alt.binaries.pictures.rail newgroup a couple years ago. It was posted by Bud Laws, who gave me permission to place his posts on my site. I think I have the original download at work, so I'll check that to see if the # is any clearer. Bud usually puts the road # on the subject line, so that's probably where I got it. He often doesn't post the PRR class, so I'm not sure what the subclass would be. --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Sam Vastano To: Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 7:08 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? > Group, > > Here is a link to a website I found. I am in question of the last photo > saying this engine is 6776? Could anybody help me I Saw a picture in Pennsy > Power 2 of 6776 and it was an M1a or b Any info would be greatly > appreciated. > > Link http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/class_m.htm > > Thanks > > Sam Vastano > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: [PRR] Car Builders Cyclopedia 1940 for sale Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:32:15 +1100 Listers, I have a Car Builders Cyclopedia 1940 reprint by Kalmbach I have to sell. Any offers. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 02:28:59 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Bowser H21 hopper conversion Hello list, I wanted a relatively late H21a, and I wanted to try kitbashing it from a Bowser car (as many of you know, Westerfield does a late H21 without the bracing at the top of the sides). I saw Teichmoeller's approach in his PRR hopper car book (alas, this is one of the books the Post Office lost on my way to Korea; I will buy a replacement soon). I looked at Bowser's clam shell H21 body and the H21a body and tried swapping the hoppers. I cut up the H21a body for the hoppers (and kept the Crown trucks), while I cut the clam shell hopper section out of the H21 body and eliminated the archbar trucks. It took a lot of fitting and filing, but I was able to fit the sawtooth hoppers to the H21 body. I added pads of .030 styrene to the top of the center sill/underframe for the hoppers to rest on to get the right height. Things came out pretty well. It looks kind of ugly inside, so I'll run this car with a load; I weighted it to 4 ounces. I worked on factory painted models; you could strip or repaint to your taste. I ended up replacing the factory grab irons with wire because I broke the originals off during the sawing process. I saved the H21a ends to add to an Accurail GLa (I believe this is one of Andy Miller's favorite kitbashes; thanks for the idea!!!). As to whether or not this is easier than John Teichmoeller's approach, I'm not so sure. He excises the heavy top flange and replaces it with styrene, and he can run his car empty; I can't. His approach is the more elegant of the two! Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:29:52 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Steve Hoxie said: >This, together with the 130P75 tender, may indicate the engine had been >assigned to passenger service. It may be in this repair/storage line after >being bumped from passenger service by the new EP20's. Steve, Isn't that a "one man" doghouse on the back of that 130P75? Would the doghouse have been used on a loco in passenger service? I was bumming since at first glance (thumbnail) I though it might be an elusive M1 + 110P75 photo... I'm looking for an M1 with a 110P75 in 1944! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser H21 hopper conversion Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 06:42:16 -0800 Jeez, Doug, for the effort you could have done one of Al Westerfield's kits and gotten a better car in the end! Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 09:44:15 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: [PRR] M1 6776 - Not! (sorry) I checked my original downloaded file of the M1 in question, and the road number in the file name is 6976, not 6776. The original was a little clearer, and, while still blurry, the number on the headlight appears to confirm it as 6976 . As I said, there was no information about its subclass. Sorry about the mistake. The page is now corrected. -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:55:09 -0600 Bruce--There are some photos around of M1's with 130P75 tenders with one man doghouse in service on passenger trains. 6810 is a good example. One place it is shown on a passenger train is in the Keystone of September 1979, page 15. Dual service for sure. Steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 14:53:46 -0500 From: Dave McNeil Subject: [PRR] POC70R Painting Info Listers, I have painted this POC70R but have been unable to find any pictures or lettering diagrams or class information with car numbers or names, if given. Can any of you point me in the right direction? I have a pretty good library of hardcovers and Keystones so a page reference or URL to an online photo would be a great help. TIA, Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:59:21 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Final project: PRR memories I was very enthousiast the last few days to read all those memories that so many of you have on the Pennsy, because -even more than photos- it gives you an idea how live really was during that period. Something I can only experience from you because I live in Europe and was born some 50 years late. For my final project on the Pennsy and Amtrak I would appreciate it if some of you can share your memories on the passenger operations on NYC-CHI route in 1944 or from travelling with Amtrak in 2000 because this is what railroading really is. (not reading how good Amtrak promotes itself) For an example in Belgium: The Belgian Railways promote themself as fast but I take the morning train every day to go to the university and I have NEVER came on time! Thanks, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen A. D'Addio" Subject: Re: [PRR] POC70R Painting Info Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:38:42 -0500 Dave, >From the "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering" book (p58), this is a Cafe-Observ.-Lounge. It is a Heavyweight painted Raymond Loewy two-tone. The car numbers are 1120-1122, 1124, 1131. From 1938 thru about 1941, Futura lettering was used. From mid '41- to about mid '42, lettering was in Block format. Then, (to keep it interesting), from mid '42 til sometime during 1946, the lettering was Modified Block. I hope this helps, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McNeil" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 2:53 PM Subject: [PRR] POC70R Painting Info > Listers, > > I have painted this POC70R but have been unable to find any pictures or > lettering diagrams or class information with car numbers or names, if > given. Can any of you point me in the right direction? I have a pretty > good library of hardcovers and Keystones so a page reference or URL to > an online photo would be a great help. > TIA, > Dave > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Caliciotti Jr." Subject: [PRR] New York Division towers Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:36:39 -0000 Lincoln (Metuchin NJ), Midway (Monmoth Jct. NJ), Nassua (Princeton Jct. NJ), and Morris (Morrisville PA) are all constucted of brick and follow the same modern design. I believe they were built in the early to mid fifties to replace the existing towers at those locations. Anybody have any idea what the previous stuctures looked like? Thanks Sam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: [PRR] Flea market puzzle Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:06:25 -0500 While at a flea market some time ago, in a box under the table was a 3 dome tank car. This freight car had oil company markings on it , but no other data. The reporting marks were "PRR...12349". The car was modified with these marks on top of whatever Tyco had originally put on it. Could anyone tell me if such 62'(?) cars with three domes ever existed? And if so where can I find technical data on them. I cannot ever remember the Pennsy havin g these, or seen them in any publication. Thanks guys Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:36:13 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] N6b vs N8 If you are thinking of O-gauge, you should also consider K-Line. They have recently come out with several gorgeous N5c's (with and without trainphone antenna) and an N8. These are lit and also produce smoke. There are at least 3 paint variants offered. K-Line is making a real bid for authenticity in many products. I am not impressed with the Williams offerings. Best wishes, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:27:30 EST Subject: [PRR] "O" Scale/Guage N6c In a message dated 3/5/01 9:51:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, GPandelios@aol.com writes: > K-Line is making a real bid for authenticity in many products. AGREED (check out the die cast gondola with sides from scrapped H-21's - making it a "pulpwood" car - matches a photo in the "Morning Sun" Book exactly). I was impressed by the care taken by K-Line in the research and the catalog article: I was not aware that the side hatch was only on the "Cabins" that had the train phone (was where the equipment was housed) I'm not quite as impressed by the model - is it to short, or does it just sit high on the trucks? Something looks wrong. I am not impressed with the Williams offerings. AGREED MTH has made 2 nice SCALE cabooses (N5c & N8) K-Line has made a nice attempt. Williams, however, has just remade the 1953 Lionel O-27 version (2" wide - not the scale 2 1/2" width) - Not impressive, even though you can buy this very Pennsy caboose in more than two dozen road names...... Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:25:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] EMD Builders Plate List,     Anyone have a EMD "Hot Dog" shaped Builders Plate handy? I need the dimensions in length and height. I want to have G Scale Decals made for my PRR F3's. The custom maker needs the correct size. Any help here?....Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:49:54 -0600 I have been working with some scanned in track plans of the Erie area and noticed on the East Lake Yard plan that they use a transfer table to shift cars for an elevator there. How many places on the PRR did this happen? An interesting modeling idea. Randy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 11:51:16 EST From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Bustleton branch Any details on this branch? Last time I was at Holmes probably ten years ago there wasn't much of it left beyond some buried tracks behind the tower. Where did it end. When was it out of service? who did it serve? Thanks, norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:27:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table If this was a general inquiry as to where there were transfer tables, the Long Island Rail Road certainly has (had?) one at their Morris Park shops. Ron Ziel's book Steel Rails to the Sunrise has a picture of it from before the turn of the century (pre-1900 that is!), so the Pennsy connection may be a bit tenuous! John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Randy Williamson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:47:11 -0600 I guess I should have clarified that with in non-backshop usage. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table > If this was a general inquiry as to where there were transfer tables, > the Long Island Rail Road certainly has (had?) one at their Morris > Park shops. Ron Ziel's book Steel Rails to the Sunrise has a > picture of it from before the turn of the century (pre-1900 that is!), > so the Pennsy connection may be a bit tenuous! > > John Bobsin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:09:57 -0500 (EST) From: chaslett@cse.l-3com.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table There is a PRR-constructed transfer table in Altoona, at the former passenger shops complex along Chestnut Avenue between 6th & 7th Streets. It is easily viewed from the Chestnut Avenue sidewalk. These shops are now owned by Union Tank Car, and the table is still used to move cars from bay to bay for repairs, refurbs, etc. Definitely an out-of-the-ordinary modeling idea. In a related topic, at the other end of what is left of the former shop area in Altoona (ie Juniata), there is the PRR-built turntable for the engine shops. It also remains in service to this day for NS, and is also easily viewed through the fence along (I believe) 6th St Juniata. Carl Haslett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:44:31 EST Subject: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table - modeling ideas In a message dated 3/6/01 1:25:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, chaslett@cse.l-3com.com writes: << the table is still used to move cars from bay to bay for repairs, refurbs, etc. Definitely an out-of-the-ordinary modeling idea. >> Does a switcher share the ride? or is there some other way of moving the cars off and back on at the other end? Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:03:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table From: aurora7@juno.com For what it's worth, The LIRR still uses the transfer table at Morris Park shops. There are no other transfer tables on the Island. The LIRR is phasing out (or has phased out) it's turntable usage. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" - Groucho ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:28:17 +1100 Randy, Not PRR but interesting is the Coors Brewery in Golden Colorado, They use a very Hi tech Series of Transfer tables to load beer into insulated boxcars. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:51:51 -0500 (EST) From: "H.&S." Subject: [PRR] Transfer table Hi all... Was'nt or is'nt there a transfer table at the former PRR,now Amtrak Wilmington shops? I know the turntable and roundhouse are gone, but i recall a transfer table being near the North end of the shops,perhaps now used by Amtrak for passenger cars and engines. On a related note. Thanks to all who have sent me info on Orangeville. Of interest was the track diagram and some pictures that George Pitz and Ken Meyer sent to me showing a couple of electrified tracks running up to the back of the roundhouse. I presume electric engines were run up to the roundhouse and pulled inside for repairs. A interesting detail to model. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:28:03 -0500 Pennsy has a transfer table in Renovo between the freight and passenger car repair shops. As of a year or so ago, it was still there, as were the shops and many of the support buildings. A friend and I managed to walk all around the facility and take pictures, and even managed to get inside through a broken out window. Nobody bothered us, although we were very careful not to attract any attention. We drove around back, left our car there, and roamed and took pictures to our heart's content! I'm afraid NS will either fence it off or tear it down, so don't wait too long if you're interested. Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme Nitz" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table > Randy, > > Not PRR but interesting is the Coors Brewery in Golden Colorado, They use a > very Hi tech Series of Transfer tables to load beer into insulated boxcars. > > Graeme Nitz > PRRT&HS Member #1313 > prr@unite.com.au > An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" > With a touch of Reading. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:19:50 -0500 (EST) From: chaslett@cse.l-3com.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table - modeling ideas : > > << the table is still used to move cars from bay to bay for repairs, > refurbs, etc. > Definitely an out-of-the-ordinary modeling idea. >> > > Does a switcher share the ride? or is there some other way of moving the cars > off and back on at the other end? > > Dick Ross > Cleveland Union Tank Car has a "Critter" of sorts that shares the ride. I don't know how cars were moved in the PRR days, especially since the table doesn't look that long, and it was handling passenger cars. I'll have to check that out! Carl ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:15:12 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: "O" Scale/Guage N6c Dick Ross also commented on MTH's N5c and N8. I own them both, and they are also fine models. MTH actually started the quality and selection war currently going on in 3-rail O Gauge. Everyone (even Lionel) has had to start competing or lose marketshare. We've seen more authentic, more diverse, and higher quality products in the last 5 years than in the previous 30. Beats the heck out seeing Lionel issue yet another NYC Hudson or a PRR loco with the wrong wheel arrangement, doesn't it? ;^) ;^) ;^) Dick is also exactly right in characterizing the Williams N5c as a remake of the Lionel O27 PRR porthole caboose. Not very enticing at all. And in this 3-rail market, that just won't cut it. George Modeling the Weirton, WV-Steubenville, OH area in O gauge from 1948-1957 > "O" Scale/Guage N6c ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:49:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Follow Up ? /Builders Plate List, Thanks to those who informed me of the dimensions of the Hot Dog Builder Plate. That info will help have the decals made. Got a follow up question. Looking at photos of PRR A-B-A, A-B-B-A F Unit lash ups I see only the A Units recieved Builders Plates. Is this because Pennsy Numbered their B unit to correspond with a mated A? And therefore no need for a Builders Plate? Another list member today said he had seen B Unit Builders Plates before but can't confirm if they were Pennsy. Any insight on this? Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:55:52 -0800 (PST) From: James Anderson Subject: [PRR] Off Topic: URGENT virus warning Hi all. This warning is from our Corporate network people here where I work, so the info is highly reliable. Let's be careful out there! THERE IS A NEW, VERY DESTRUCTIVE VIRUS OUT. It is spead through e-mail with an attachment named "Naked Wife.exe". This will destroy system files on your harddrive. Do not open any attachment unless you know what it is, reguardless of who it is from. Bill Jim Anderson PRRT&HS 3995 Elmira Branch circa 1925 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "m mcm" Subject: Re: [PRR] Transfer table Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:31:17 -0500 There was a transfer table between the row of major shop buildings at Renovo, Pennsylvania. I saw it some years ago returning to Driftwood, Pennsylvania, from med school via "the scenic route." Mike Tronetti ----- Original Message ----- From: "H.&S." To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 5:51 PM Subject: [PRR] Transfer table > > Hi all... > > Was'nt or is'nt there a transfer table > at the former PRR,now Amtrak Wilmington shops? > I know the turntable and roundhouse are gone, > but i recall a transfer table being near the > North end of the shops,perhaps now used > by Amtrak for passenger cars and engines. > > On a related note. Thanks to all who have sent me > info on Orangeville. Of interest was the track > diagram and some pictures that George Pitz and > Ken Meyer sent to me showing a couple of > electrified tracks running up to the back > of the roundhouse. I presume electric engines > were run up to the roundhouse and pulled inside > for repairs. A interesting detail to model. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "m mcm" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: "O" Scale/Guage N6c Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:34:02 -0500 It has been nice to see other Pennsy O scale modelers posting. I do 2 rail; but we all share the availability dilema. I am known to occasionally take the wheelsets off of a good 3 rail model and replace them for 2 rail. Mike Tronetti ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:15 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: "O" Scale/Guage N6c > Dick Ross also commented on MTH's N5c and N8. > > I own them both, and they are also fine models. MTH actually started the > quality and selection war currently going on in 3-rail O Gauge. Everyone > (even Lionel) has had to start competing or lose marketshare. We've seen > more authentic, more diverse, and higher quality products in the last 5 years > than in the previous 30. > > Beats the heck out seeing Lionel issue yet another NYC Hudson or a PRR loco > with the wrong wheel arrangement, doesn't it? ;^) ;^) ;^) > > Dick is also exactly right in characterizing the Williams N5c as a remake of > the Lionel O27 PRR porthole caboose. Not very enticing at all. And in this > 3-rail market, that just won't cut it. > > George > > Modeling the Weirton, WV-Steubenville, OH area in O gauge from 1948-1957 > > > > "O" Scale/Guage N6c > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:07:44 EST From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Transfer tables I think we have gotten off the original intent of the message which was about transfer tables used at online customers of the PRR of which I know of none. There was and is a tansfer table at Logansport. the current owner repairs freight cars and uses it but is very non-railfan receptive. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 14:32:31 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: [PRR] Transfer tables NDBPRR said: I think we have gotten off the original intent of the message which was about transfer tables used at online customers of the PRR of which I know of none. ----------- The transfer table to which Randy was referring can be seen at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/ely_w2.gif Look at the upper left of the diagram, directly below the word "Presque". My guess is that a string of cars was loaded at the elevator, pushed onto the transfer table, moved to another track, and pulled off by a switcher and string of loaded cars. -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "GAS" Subject: [PRR] transfer table @ renovo Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:14:50 -0800 Bill the transfer table is still there. I was just there last weekend and took over 300 photos of interior shots. At this point I have been in every building now extant. As for Norfolk Southern tearing it down. NS has no rights to the property. The owners are the Clinton County Economic Partnership. They are going to tear much of the remaining shops down including the ornate italiante style portion of the Erecting shops, the casting and mold storage building, the office building, the blacksmith shop, and the power house. I can't say I blame them as many of these buildings now have major structural problems with the roofs. As for moving cars on and off the transfer table, I noted a pulley system on the one in Renovo that clearly was used to move the cars on to the table. I am not sure how this was used to get them off but I can imagine some ways. --Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Special interest Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:23:59 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: Flea Market Puzzle From: John Sheets Jim PRR 12349 was a series of X28a Box Cars, only 63 were still in service in 1965, 12349 was not one of them. the same Equipment Register shows no Tanks for revenue service. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:32:56 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: Flea Market Puzzle From: John Sheets Jim I was incorrect, the number 12349 was not a utilized series in the Register I have , 1965 Sorry for the confusion John > From: John Sheets > Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:23:59 -0600 > To: PRR Talk > Subject: Re: Flea Market Puzzle > > Jim > > PRR 12349 was a series of X28a Box Cars, only 63 were still in service in > 1965, 12349 was not one of them. > > the same Equipment Register shows no Tanks for revenue service. > > John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR M1 Photo Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 22:08:22 -0500 Group. I am looking for pictures of PRR M1 # 6976. If anybody has a picture of this engine could you please contact me off list. I want to model this engine and I have only the right side of it. I would like to see the air pump detail. Thanks in advance Sam Vastano _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:21:17 -0500 From: Steve Hanlon Subject: [PRR] diesel pilot lettering I am looking for info on diesel pilot lettering. At one point in time i came across a guide but seem to have lost it. -steve hanlon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:25:34 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: [PRR] PRR Special on PHL PBS Channel needs info The PRRT&HS Philadelphia Chapter has been asked to help the local PBS station research the PRR for a special that will air sometime in June. If you have any of the information requested below, please contact Andrea at Channel 12, WHYY; phone number 215-351-1267. Thanks, Bill Morlitz PRRT&HS Website Superintendent Did You Work For The Pennsylvania Railroad? (or your parents or grandparents?) Philadelphia’s Public Television Station WHYY is producing an hour television documentary on the history of the Pennsylvania Railroad. The producer of the show is looking for people to share their experiences working on the PRR through on-camera interviews. Some of the people we are looking for include: Engineers who worked for the PRR Women, both Caucasian and African American, who worked for the PRR during W.W.II An African American male who worked as a Pullman Porter on the PRR Someone who worked laying track or repairing track for the PRR A shop worker who worked at Baldwin Locomotives or in Altoona building steam locomotives Descendants of John Edgar Thomson, Thomas Alexander Scott, George Brooke Roberts or Alexander Cassatt We would also be open to talking to people who's parents or grandparents worked in any of these capacities, provided that they have good stories (factually accurate of course). If you’re interested, have any questions or know anyone who fits the criteria please contact: Andrea Elovson, Producer WHYY 215-351-1267 e-mail: aelovson@whyy.org We look forward to hearing from you! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mike Morrow" Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch Operations Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:02:21 -0500 Hi all, Is there anyone on the list who has a good understanding of operations on the Elmira Branch during the 1950's? Specifically helper operations between Newberry and Southport. Thanks. Mike Morrow PRRT&HS #6703 The Elmira Branch 1956-57 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:48:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] (PRR Item-eBay Warning! Guys, Just wanted to alert any perspective bidders on an item I seen and bid on on eBay. A seller has listed a #1 Gauge GG-1 by GHB International. He has the description, several photos of the engine and a magazine ad to help sell this loco. I placed a bid last night. It now stands at $262.00+. I was expecting a really good bargin. I then had questions about this loco. A picture he has listed shows a race car truck hualer in the background. This towers over the GG-1. So last night I emailed a question to the seller as to how long the GG-1 actually is. I just heard back. This GG-1 is a full 11" long. Wow! Pretty small GG1 for #1 Scale don't you think?. Yes I have retracted my bid. He has this listed as a GHB #1 Gauge GG-1 but in reality, it is probably an AHM HO Scale GG-1. If he dosn't make a post on his auction, can you imagine the lucky bidder sending his payment in for a 1/32 Scale GG1 and receiveing an HO Model. Boy, I'd hate to be that winning bidder. To find the auction just do a search for CG-1 or CG1. The seller didn't even get the GG-1 right........Gary PS: I will alert the other bidders if the seller dosn't do something about this first...... Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRR5499@att.net Subject: [PRR] M-1a photograph Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:21:31 +0000 List, Looking for a Photo of M-1a #6727 front end view around 1955 or later.Please E-mail off line. Thanks, Ed ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Locomotive Workshop Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:22:29 -0600 (CST) From: george.pierson@trnty.edu Hi, all, In the April, 2001 issue of RMC, p.92, is an ad for the Locomotive Workshop of Englishtown, NJ, indicating that they have HO versions of the PRR T1, HC1, and K2. Does anyone know about this outfit? What are the kits like (I assume they are kits)? TIA George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 12:41:58 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - Listmaster/Webmaster On The Lamb! From: Jerry Britton Since web sites and/or lists being off-line tend to make some people jump to the wrong conclusions, I'm just making this courtesy post to let everyone know that I am leaving town later today and will be returning on the 18th. My servers have been very stable lately and, computer gods willing, will make the week without mishap. All servers have auto-restart functions if they detect one of their services (web, ftp, list, etc.) down, so that should not be an issue. The only two gremlims worth worrying about are: * ISP failure (happened twice in 14 months of DSL) * Power failure longer than 30 minutes (duration of UPS) So, if the web sites/lists appear to be down, rest assured that they WILL return to service quickly upon my return. Though I am unlikely to participate (unless needed), I do plan to monitor the lists via a hotmail.com account. BTW: I'm heading to the Tampa area. Anything worth seeing train-wise? I do plan to take my boy to the railroad station at least. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Listmaster/Webmaster ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:41:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Two New Books of Note From: Jerry Britton Two new books worth noting: "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Cars, Volume 1, Coaches", by Bob Sweetland and Bob Lillejstrand, The Railroad Press. $13.95. Available now. (Can't wait to see what the future volumes are going to be, and when!) "Pennsy Steam Years, Volume 3", by Bert Pennypacker, Morning Sun Books. List Due in August 2001. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:46:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Registration Packet Now Online! From: Jerry Britton The 2001 PRRT&HS Convention Registration Packet is now available online as a downloadable Adobe Acrobat PDF file. This is provided as a service of the Cyber Division of the PRRT&HS... http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com I was asked to hold the file until today, when the hard-copy version hits the traditional mail system. Hopefully it will help those who suffer from long mass-mail delays and those overseas. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 17:20:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] L1s "Lollipops ?" Any know why the L1s is sometimes refered to as a Lollipop?--Mark L --- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:29:00 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Two New Books of Note Jerry, Many years ago someone (Robert Wayner, Bob Reid?) Published a book by that title. It contained all of the PRR "diagrams" for coaches. Does the current book do anything different? Are there any fotos? BTW Vol II of the Wayner(?) books was on diners. No further volumes ever appeared. Jerry Britton wrote: > > Two new books worth noting: > > "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Cars, Volume 1, Coaches", by Bob Sweetland > and Bob Lillejstrand, The Railroad Press. $13.95. Available now. (Can't wait > to see what the future volumes are going to be, and when!) > > "Pennsy Steam Years, Volume 3", by Bert Pennypacker, Morning Sun Books. List > Due in August 2001. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Two New Books of Note Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:03:03 -0500 The previous books were put out by Bob Reid. The current books are essentially put out by Bob's Photos so I'd assume that they are mainly photo books.... Another sort of depressing new PRR book is The Destruction of Penn Station by Peter Moore. It's a photo journal of Penn Station just before and during demolition. It has some real nice pre-demolition detail shots. Amazon has it for 32 bucks.... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Andy > Miller > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 4:29 PM > To: Jerry Britton > Cc: PRR-Talk LIST > Subject: Re: [PRR] Two New Books of Note > > > Jerry, > > Many years ago someone (Robert Wayner, Bob Reid?) Published a book by > that title. It contained all of the PRR "diagrams" for coaches. Does > the current book do anything different? Are there any fotos? > > > BTW Vol II of the Wayner(?) books was on diners. No further volumes > ever appeared. > > Jerry Britton wrote: > > > > Two new books worth noting: > > > > "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Cars, Volume 1, Coaches", by > Bob Sweetland > > and Bob Lillejstrand, The Railroad Press. $13.95. Available > now. (Can't wait > > to see what the future volumes are going to be, and when!) > > > > "Pennsy Steam Years, Volume 3", by Bert Pennypacker, Morning > Sun Books. List > > Due in August 2001. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > Free serving of railroad web sites > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > -- > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > =================================================== > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Locomotive Workshop Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 20:25:29 -0500 George, Group, I talked with someone there about a year and a half ago and teh are modifying a bowser T1 into a 3 porthole version. With correct drivers?? Haven't contacted them since They wanted over 300.00 for their kit version. Hoe this helps Sam Vastano >From: george.pierson@trnty.edu >To: prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] Locomotive Workshop >Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:22:29 -0600 (CST) > >Hi, all, > >In the April, 2001 issue of RMC, p.92, is an ad for the Locomotive Workshop >of >Englishtown, NJ, indicating that they have HO versions of the PRR T1, HC1, >and >K2. Does anyone know about this outfit? What are the kits like (I assume >they >are kits)? TIA > >George Pierson > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 21:45:19 EST Subject: [PRR] FT's Lists, This is off subject for the PRR folks, unless you are modeling interchanges with the PRR. Witnessed the demonstration of Division Point's FT's in HO scale today. This is the first time I have seen the Div. Point products and it was awesome!! They have done an unbelievable job with these units; units are specifically detailed for each road. Quiet, not until near full speed could the motor be heard and there was no gear noise. The slow speed operation is also near perfection. The detailing includes full cab interior with crew and super clear windows that one would swear is lab slide glass. If you are in to brass, this is as near to modeling heaven as it comes. There are the SRR 3-unit set, Rock Is. 3-unit set, MoPac A/B, RDG A/B, Milw. A/B, and Santa Fe (early scheme) units still available. There is a second run in the works for a June delivery. Contact Div. Point or Caboose Hobbies for info. on these units. Now if you'll forgive me for being brief, I have to go put a new set of FT A/B units into service on the Cpa (Jersey City) - Rutherford (Harrisburg) run so that the transfer move to Enola yard will not be late. Later, Evan PS RDG List. Div. Point had four RDG sets left this morning but are now down to three sets. The Stewa