Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 01:57:16 -0500 From: Phil Tripician Subject: [PRR] PRSL & SFL Memories Charles Burnley triggered some very fond memories of the PRSL as I grew up in Pleasantville and am about ten years older than he is. I witnessed the Consolidations switching in the Pleasantville yard behind the Junior High School on Washington Avenue. (I believe they were H-8's, but could be wrong). The crews were moderately friendly as long as you didn't get too close when they were doing the "flying switch" maneuver. The industries they services were the Peter Lumber Co, the Lake & Risley Lumber Co (tel #2), the McAlister "Blue Coal" Co, and lineside industries to Somers Point. Other memories include the magnificent concrete bridge and trestle over Shore Road in Absecon that was built in a grade elimination project. (I believe it was over one mile long). The American Bridge over the throrofare into the Atlantic City passenger yard throat, the Atlantic Tower, and the Chelsea and Mediterranean in-street freight branches are others I recall. I was too young to remember the Reading coming through Pleasantville at track speed, but I do remember the stories from my Dad. We lived on Mississippi Avenue in the summer. The track in the street was for the Shore Fast Line Trolley that ran off shore to Pleasantville, Northfield, Linwood, Somers Point, and Ocean City. Many a penny we flattened under those wheels as well as the B-6sb switcher that brought theatrical baggage cars, and other rolling stock to Convention Hall for the Ice Capades, shows, and conventions. I remember my mother "blessing" the switcher when it would puff some black smoke over her laundry hanging on the line. This happened despite the efforts of the fireman to reduce it with the blower and a lighter fire. The wait for traffic at cross streets was just too much for it. The passenger station in Atlantic City was my first exposure to the PRSL as we lived in Upper Darby, PA and spent summers on Mississippi Avenue only one block across Missouri Avenue to the eight track station, roundhouse and coach yard along Bacharach Blvd. On Track 8 was the Blue Comet of the Jersey Central (AC to JCY) and also the PRSL doodlebugs 400 & 401, (the latter ran to Newfield after the cessation of electric service with MP-54's). But track 1 was the place to be when the K-4's and E-6's would bring in their consists from Camden. The air pumps with their "dum dump, dum dump" pounding sound, the smell of steam and oil and grease and hot brake shoes on an even hotter summer day will never leave my memory banks. The fireman would lean out the window and look over the crowd (and especially the girls) that would stream by on the platform. The engineer would also join him on the deck.The road engine would cut off on the escape track (#2) if it were clear and the B-6sb switcher would tie on to the rear and move the cars to the coach yard for servicing. Track 1 was the primary inbound track because of the hotel transportation connection. The limosines were lined up at a 45' angle to the platform under gold lettered green metal signs the proclaiming the best hotels on the seashore. Names such as Traymore, Shelburne, Claridge, Chalfonte, Haddon Hall, Marlborough-Blenheim, and Dennis to name but a few. All grand, all elegant and very classy. The limos were Packards, LaSalles, Buicks, Cadillacs, and other equally big beautiful black vehicles. As quickly as they could load people, they would be off clearing the platform in quick time. Of course, there were the common folk, (like me) who either walked to our "hotel" or went to Atlantic Avenue (through Columbus Park) to catch a trolley or Pacific Avenue to board a "Jitney" (more limo type vehicles with overhead ropes to close the rear doors from the drivers seat). I remember standing at the yard end of Tracks 4 and 5 waiting for the outbound trains to leave. It was great fun when the safety valves would pop as the steam pressure was right on the needle prior to departure. The engineer would open the cylinder cocks and a great cloud of dense swirling white steam would envelop the area. If it were a long train, there might be some limited wheel slipping as the engineer was quick to react. That was some show as with a wave of the hand he was off to Philadelphia (60 miles away) My Uncle Charlie would take me to the roundhouse (he had a friend there) and I rode the turntable in a K-4. One Sunday, we went there at my request because it was a special day and I could do anything I wanted. I had a marvelous time enjoying every minute of my Confirmation Sunday in my white silk suit (originally), but upon returning home it had turned a grimy shade of black. I don't think I've ever seen my Mother that mad, both at me and my Uncle Charlie. There are many more fond recollections that I have, but if anyone has a continuing interest, I would recommend two publications. First, "the Bible" on the PRSL as far as I 'm concerned is "By Rail to the Boardwalk" by Richard Gladulich. Unfortunately, he passed away a few years ago in the prime of his life. The second is equally authentic on the Shore Fast Line trolleys entitled "We Had A Shore Fast Line". It is written by Melvin Borgnis of Pleasantville who was a motorman on the line. I'd like to hear from more of you who have warm feelings on the PRSL or SFL. Thanks, Phil Tripician ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 04:13:42 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70 Coach HO-Models Jerry, list, For starters, my givens and druthers. I model the New York and Long Branch RR, I don't have a layout of my own, and I like to build kits. I prefer the Eastern Car Works kits, although I also like most of my Bachmann P70s (the pinkish color on the first run P70s and the swiveling draft gear boxes that droop are my issues, but these problems can be fixed pretty easily). I like the myriad of options the ECW kit gives you (now that I have enough reference books to figure out what all of those little boxes are). I like adding exactly the level of detail that I want. I started buying ECW kits when they were still made by Alco Models. Oddly, I didn't have problems assembling the trucks until years later; some of my first few P70s have the original trucks with Kadee wheelsets and they roll beautifully. Go figure. On all of my recent ECW P70s, I've had excruciating difficulty with the trucks. I replace the trucks with MDC/Roundhouse's 2935 Commonwealth truck, which is a PRR 2EP5. Before someone says these are for P70FBRs only (which, to be fair, is pretty accurate), as of 1954 they were under P70s 3525, 3578, 3594, 3602, 3714, and a few one and two car subclasses. Having said that, I'm glad I model the New York and Long Branch; the P70FBR was a very common car on that line (I'm still ironing out when exactly they became so prevalent; there were oodles in the 60s and 70s, but I'm not 100% sure about their abundance in 1948). The P70FBR has been around since at least the 1940s, so just about anyone can use them. The Bachmann P70s are not air conditioned; you'll have to add details and change the roof detailing to add these features (ECW sells their P70 detail sprue separately, making this possible for those so inclined). ECW includes a generic location diagram for the parts in their kits; it's handy (I used it before I started modeling specific cars from photos, which may not be for everyone; your preferences may vary). As always, there's more work involved in building a kit, but I enjoy this part of the hobby a lot. The latest Bachmann P70s in the "prewar" scheme are pretty nice. I repaint the underbodies and trucks black, change out the couplers for Kadees (optional, but I like Kadees a lot) and let them roll. Less effort, but less fun in my book. One final note: The ECW cars are flat kits. They come out of the box with the sides and floor warped. This is initially scary; you've just spent $22 or so for a warped undecorated kit. Take a deep breath, wash everything to get the oil off, and let it dry. There are grooves in the sides for the floor. I use liquid plastic cement for assembly, and as I fit the side and floor together, everything aligns correctly. Magical, especially when the first one I built was at the tender age of 16 and 20 dollars for one passenger car was a lot of money at the time. As an aside, I bought a few of the very ancient JC Models P70s with metal sides new in the box as recently as 1994. I like them, but they're not nearly as well detailed as the much more recent plastic cars. Doug --- Colman Gerald wrote, in part: > To List: > > I would like opinions on who makes the best HO P-70 > Coaches, other than > brass. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:28:31 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] B-60 lettering Walt, I model the same era and lettered all of my Bethlehem B60s in your scheme B in gold. I believe the "cove" letters disappeared in the 30s. I can't recall seeing fotos of B60s repainted in Dulux until they were relettered "P.R.R." with the Scotchlite herald in the 60s. I don't think head end equipment got repainted very often. BTW, I recessed the doors on my B60s. It makes a world of difference. Bethlehem flat cast the side and apparently could not recess the doors. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Walt Prusick wrote: > > Guys, > Started working on a couple of Bethlehem Car Works B-60 kits and the > lettering is a stumbling block. The decals supplied are by Middel Division, > and they show 4 configurations in their diagram. Now it is my intention to > model an undecided portion of the Pennsy in the western PA area around 1952. > Which of the configs do I follow. > (A) Dulux - PRR Block with round P and S > (B) Bronze Gold or Dulux same style as A above > (C) Bronze Gold - PRR Futura > (D) Bronze Gold - PRR Block with 'cove' P and S. > My thinking is lettering B with a recently outshopped car in Dulux with the > balance in Bronze Gold. I would greatly appreciate input before I make a > major bobo. Thanks in advance. > > Walt Prusick > > BTW the above kits were bought at Jerry's consignment section, and included > trucks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:25:16 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] B-60 lettering Walt asks: >Which of the configs do I follow. >(A) Dulux - PRR Block with round P and S >(B) Bronze Gold or Dulux same style as A above >(C) Bronze Gold - PRR Futura >(D) Bronze Gold - PRR Block with 'cove' P and S. Walt, (D) is pre-war only (C) is 1939-1941 (ish) 1952 might be even a little early for (B)...I need to check my PRRT&HS book, but by and large I would go with (A) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:03:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] B-60 lettering In a message dated 3/1/01 8:23:15 AM Central Standard Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << BTW, I recessed the doors on my B60s. >> Extra work, but good idea. I've got two to build and I'll try it on the first one. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:27:33 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Web Site(s) Down From: Jerry Britton The following web sites are down for unplanned, but minor, maintenance: PENNSYRR.COM RAILFANCENTRAL.COM DSOP.COM etc. Just letting everyone know before FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) takes over!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:28:24 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR]PRR memories and the DT&I on Penn Central In a message dated Wed, 28 Feb 2001 5:10:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, Mark Bej writes: << LINESWEST@aol.com scribit: > The Pnahandle mainline betweeen Dayton and Richmond, Ind., and between Richmond and Indianapolis > is completely gone Tom, Rick, was not part of this bought and still used by N&W/NS? -- Mark >> Nope. What I'm talking about was built as the Indiana Central that ran from Indianapolis through Greencastle and Dunreith, western end of the Columbus Division, to Richmond. The Confolk Souther...er NS took over a line built by either the Chicago Great Eastern or Chicago & Indiana Central running northwest out of Richmond to Anderson or Marion, I forget which, where it connects with a direct line to Chicago. The NS operates the PRR's Richmond & Cincinnati, the old western approach to the Queen City through Eaton, Camden and Hamilton west and southwest of Dayton as the final leg of its Chicago-Cincinnati mainline. This line sees heavy intermodal traffic. I first saw road railers on this line. For some reason Camden in southern Preble County about 20 miles southwest of Dayton seems to have more than its fair share of grade crossing accidents and derailments. The village council has threatened NS with enforcing a village speed limit on the line, as allowed by Ohio law. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:44:44 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: Athearn Ad Hmmmmmm, could this be the cantankerous crumudgeon Greg Martin that we've come to know and ... Gee, Greg, "best ever" sounds pretty good so I won't be so crass as to point out the relatively short time the current management has been in control. Ribbing light is off. It's a great honor and couldn't have gone to a better modeler. Congrats. Seriously, now. In the past Athearn's owners have said that they were in the business of selling finished locomotives and not parts and for a while replacement parts or parts for bashing became hard to get. Does this Ad campaign signal a willingness to let that line run just a little longer to get those parts we kit bashers will need? Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 11:10:20 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: AOL 6.0, MIME/HTML Formatting - Solution? From: Jerry Britton To all who use AOL 6.0: Several months ago software was added to the listserv so that it rejects posts sent in the MIME/HTML format. While an annoyance to many, hitting the Delete key was a viable alternative. However, more recent viruses, which typically affect only Windows users , are being spread via MIME/HTML attachments, usually without the senders knowledge. This change on my listserv has stopped the "potential" for spreading viruses of this type. Unfortunately, it has left many AOL 6 users unable to send legitimate posts. As previously discussed, AOL 6 uses MIME/HTML as its default and there is no way to turn it off, according to AOL support. AOL has also confirmed that it has received many complaints over this, from both their users and listmasters. AOL's Support recommends setting your font to Arial, 10 point, and make sure you do not use Bold, Underline, Italic, or any change of fonts anywhere in your document. In most cases, listserv's will not see resulting posts as being in MIME/HTML. Be sure to check your signature file as well!!! Okay, here are two possible other solutions: 1) Drop AOL. (Okay, so maybe I am only offering one solution!) 2) I can't test this, but in earlier version of AOL, you could use AOL to make your connection to the Internet. Once connected, however, you could use whatever client software you preferred, over AOL's built-in software. If this is still the case, I would recommend installing Microsoft Outlook Express, which I guarantee will work with the lists. Worth a try. Perhaps someone can confirm (off-list) that this is still possible. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Listmaster ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:38:21 EST Subject: [PRR] TEST MESSAGE - With Permission of the Listmaster This is a test message of AOL4 with nonstandard font, bold,underline. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] TEST MESSAGE - With Permission of the Listmaster Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:56:00 -0500 Well I got it, Chris -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:38 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] TEST MESSAGE - With Permission of the Listmaster This is a test message of AOL4 with nonstandard font, bold,underline. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: AOL 6.0, MIME/HTML Formatting - Solution? Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:20:35 -0500 Would another possible solution be to get one of the many free e-mails offered that use the internet? I have a couple of them and have no problem with them. Doesn't cost anything and gets around (I think) the problems with AOL. And free is certainly cheaper than AOL! Let me know if anyone know for sure that this works. TIA Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" ; "Conrail-Talk LIST" ; "Reading-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:10 AM Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: AOL 6.0, MIME/HTML Formatting - Solution? > To all who use AOL 6.0: > > Several months ago software was added to the listserv so that it rejects > posts sent in the MIME/HTML format. While an annoyance to many, hitting the > Delete key was a viable alternative. However, more recent viruses, which > typically affect only Windows users , are being spread via MIME/HTML > attachments, usually without the senders knowledge. > > This change on my listserv has stopped the "potential" for spreading viruses > of this type. > > Unfortunately, it has left many AOL 6 users unable to send legitimate posts. > As previously discussed, AOL 6 uses MIME/HTML as its default and there is no > way to turn it off, according to AOL support. AOL has also confirmed that it > has received many complaints over this, from both their users and > listmasters. > > AOL's Support recommends setting your font to Arial, 10 point, and make sure > you do not use Bold, Underline, Italic, or any change of fonts anywhere in > your document. In most cases, listserv's will not see resulting posts as > being in MIME/HTML. Be sure to check your signature file as well!!! > > Okay, here are two possible other solutions: > > 1) Drop AOL. (Okay, so maybe I am only offering one solution!) > > 2) I can't test this, but in earlier version of AOL, you could use AOL to > make your connection to the Internet. Once connected, however, you could use > whatever client software you preferred, over AOL's built-in software. If > this is still the case, I would recommend installing Microsoft Outlook > Express, which I guarantee will work with the lists. > > Worth a try. Perhaps someone can confirm (off-list) that this is still > possible. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Listmaster > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 15:53:34 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Mailing From: Jerry Britton I just heard from Chuck Blardone that the convention mailing just went to the printers today...with the convention only nine weeks away!!! He expects to have it back mid-next week and in the mail by the end of next week (3/9). Geez, mass mail takes up to two weeks!!! They sure are cutting it close, especially for vendors wishing to reserve tables!!! I will contact the coordinator this evening to see if I can get the files so as to create a PDF file we can distribute online. I've done this the past few years and people have used it, especially those overseas who may get this mailing a month after the convention!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:30:58 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Humbrol paint Can someone tell me which Humbrol paint matches Pullman Green and which Humbrol paint matches Tuscan Red? Thanks, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 17:05:36 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Humbrol paint Aaahhh, Geoff, I see you've been bitten by the Pennsy bug. You're showing all the signs of becoming a true "SPF," a "Serious Pennsy Fan" in polite society or a "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" to others. Caring about the difference between grimy soiled "Brunswick Green" and black is a reverisble condition until the affected person begins referring to the color of PRR Freight Locomotives after 1954 and all motive power before 1954 as "DGLE," Pennsylvanian for "Dark Green Locomotive Enamel" as the paint color is called on tracings of the lettering diagrams. Tuscan is not that difficult to duplicate but trying to recreate what the uninitiated call "Oxide Red" but which is formally "Freight Car Color" will drive you mad. It was mixed up separately by the shops doing the repainting so there is a marked variation in the tone and tint of FCC as geographical area and time period change. As you are interested in the GG-1s, I doubt you will have much interest in that "other Pennsylvania Railroad" I described in my PRR memories post of Feb. 27, 2001. Welcome aboard to "The Standard Railway of the World," Tom V. In a message dated Thu, 1 Mar 2001 4:43:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, Geoffrey Van Dooren writes: << Can someone tell me which Humbrol paint matches Pullman Green and which Humbrol paint matches Tuscan Red? Thanks, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:31:20 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Memories I am posting the following message on the subject from Jerry Finefrock: I grew up in Alliance, OH in the 1940's, where the main crossed the C&P. My grandfather served on the Erie and the PRR from 1889-1950, starting as a call boy and ending as a passinger conducter when he was killed in service at the age of 70. Memories: for some reason the PRR kept an 0-4-0 at Alliance and had since the days that all of the fleet either dropped or picked up a diner at Alliance and Pat, another old-timer, allowing me to sit on his lap as he ran her; southbound [EB by timetable] ore trains with 100 cars and 2 N1s's on the point with one as a snapper and standing close enough to touch the engines as they passed the station, talk about shaking the ground and raw power; riding to Cleveland and Pittsburg behind K4s's; Q's and J's on the main with loooooong trains; going down to the station close to midnight to see the Broadway come through [did you ever see a T1 lose her footing on a wet diamond at 60 mph]; sitting in my room on a warm summer night and hearing the lonely sound [T.S Eliot was right] of an EB K4s blowing for all the crossings. 1st Sawberg Rd, then Mechanic St and the NYC crossing, then one for the station and the C&P, and finally Patterson ST., and, oh yes running to see the Red Arrow with diesels on the point since they would never last. I had an opportunity to go into engine service when I was 18 but decided on college and law school, yet sometimes I hear a diesel sound for a crossing and wonder. Jerry Finefrock (via Bob Zoeller) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:51:45 EST Subject: [PRR] Conrail annual reports Hello List. Is there any one on the list that may have xtra or doubles of Conrail annual reports that may wish to sell them. I am looking for 1978,1979,1984 & 1988. This will complete my Conrail years and give me a complete 55 year set starting with PRR in 1945 through PC and into NS 1999. The only ones not there are the bankrupt years of Penn Central 1970 to 1975 although a report was put out in 1973 which outlined the bankruptcy and the 1972 Agnes Flood. Please contact off list. Thanks to all. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:57:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR Vs NYC "The Great Race" Hello List, A conversation came up this morning in an email I had. I mentioned the famous race of the PRR and NYC out of Englewood, Ill. The setting had the PRR and NYC Trackage vitually side by side. I was wondering how long this section of trackage actually was. Less than a mile, more than a mile? Anyone know for sure? Plenty of photos show this race. Most times it shows a Double Headed K4 prepared for the fast trip east to NYCity versus a lone NYC J1 or J3 Hudson prepaing to take their train via the northern water level route into NYCity. Sure bet it was fun to watch as the engineers poured on the steam to get their train out ahead of the competeing railroad. Once the Diesel era hit, E7 or E8 lashups versus E7 or E8 lashups just wouldnt have had the same effect.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Day" Subject: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:10:40 -0500 Maybe I failed to read the answers, but recently there was a discussion involving whether or not the PRR used telltales. Also I am wondering about the differences between an N5c and an N5b. Thanks, Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:20:33 -0500 Doug, The PRR used Tell-tales but called them by a different name. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Doug Day [mailto:dougday@1st.net] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 11:11 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Maybe I failed to read the answers, but recently there was a discussion involving whether or not the PRR used telltales. Also I am wondering about the differences between an N5c and an N5b. Thanks, Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:32:52 EST From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Vs NYC "The Great Race" The parallel stretch runs from Englewood to just east of Cline Ave. in Indiana. If you have a Chicago area map it is roughly from where I-90 joins I-94 east to route 912 in indiana. Without measuring it is roughly 5-6 miles that they are in close proximity. Englewood station had a fire many years ago. I was last there about 20 years ago and it is definitely not a safe area for more than one reason. The PRR tracks exist over to Whiting, Indiana at the Amoco refinery. The tracks have all been taken up from Whiting to the Calumet river with the exception of one industrial track directly behind the refinery which was part of the main. The signal bridges are still there but the position light targets have all been removed. At Whiting which is about half way to Cline Avenue the NYC main makes a large S curve and goes over along the shoreline of Lake Michigan but can be seen from the PRR main. The PRR bridges over the Calumet river are virtually inaccesible as the tracks cut ! through the Inland Steel plant a bout 250 yards south of the NYC main which is still a great place to phtograph trains. The EJ&E and NYC/CR/CSX bascule bridges are still in operation. Directly south of the NYC bridge are two CSX bridges which have been out of service for the 22 years I have been in the Chicago area with no tracks attached at either end. The PRR main has been taken up completely through Inland Steel Company and in East Chicago where the split is up to about 1/4 mile but the real big split occurs in Gary where the PRR heads SE to Valparaiso and the NYC heads east along the lakeshore. Cline Avenue was made a limited acces highway and fill was placed over the PRR mains about 15-17 years ago. A picture I took of it was cut from Trains at the last minute and my 15 minutes of fame was lost forever. There was a garnite PRR station in gary that was torn down probably 20 years ago. There used to be about eight tracks that crossed route 20 in gary inclusing a couple that were N&W. Today various r! ecreation facilities have been b uilt on the old right of way in East Chicago including tennis and basketball courts. My understanding is that the race occured very infrequently as the Century usually left 1/2 hour before the Broadway. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:57:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR Vs NYC "The Great Race" Hello List, A conversation came up this morning in an email I had. I mentioned the famous race of the PRR and NYC out of Englewood, Ill. The setting had the PRR and NYC Trackage vitually side by side. I was wondering how long this section of trackage actually was. Less than a mile, more than a mile? Anyone know for sure? Plenty of photos show this race. Most times it shows a Double Headed K4 prepared for the fast trip east to NYCity versus a lone NYC J1 or J3 Hudson prepaing to take their train via the northern water level route into NYCity. Sure bet it was fun to watch as the engineers poured on the steam to get their train out ahead of the competeing railroad. Once the Diesel era hit, E7 or E8 lashups versus E7 or E8 lashups just wouldnt have had the same effect.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "mandp" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:54:32 -0500 N5b cabins had square windows and square cupola, while the N5c had eight porthole windows on the sides, four each side, and a larger streamlined cupola. N5b had a horizontal belt rail and a vertical butt strip, while the N5c had a higher horizontal belt rail and no vertical butt strip. Although the vertical height is the same from rail head to top of cupola, the N5c was longer, both had the same overall width. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:58:08 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] PRR Wire Trains Hello all, I periodically ask these questions about some of the cars that made up the PRR's wire trains, and since its been a while since I last asked... 1) I am looking for any information on the mechanism for raising and lowering the platform on the tower/scaffold cars that were based on the FM flat car. I am aware of the published photos and Al Buchan graciously copied a couple of photos of these cars, but I cannot figure out the actual mechanism! Photos, drawings etc would be GREAT! I had hoped that Railworks would release this car soon, but they are on "indefinite hold" so I guess I'm scratchbuilding (based on a Sunshine FM flat). 2) Does anyone have drawings or photographs of class XL #492338, a wire train riding car, or any of its sisters (if there were any). The car appears briefly in the video "Pennsy Steam and Electric Years, vol 1" on the Thorndale wire train, along with an XL Tool car equipped with a pantograph. Al Buchan sent me a copy of a photo of the left side of this car but I would love end photos and the other side. The car has an unusual window arrangement that does not match the other XL riding cars, a pantograph, a cupola (which although it superficially looks like an N5 cupola is too small to be one) and a rear platform, with caboose (N5 style) steps. I was lobbying Al Westerfield at the Prototype Rails meet in Cocoa to produce this car...and he seemed to be somewhat receptive . Of course, the down side is that an appropriate scale pantograph for this car will cost more than a Westerfield kit! (I offered to devise scratchbuilding instructions and templates...). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:49:46 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Vs NYC "The Great Race" Dear NDBPRR Yes you are right, the PRR signal bridges are still intact at Englewood, IL and eleswhere along that stretch of what is now N&W track. BUT ! ! ! I'm here to tell you that (Tankfully) the position light targets (at least at Englewood) are also still intact and in operation ! ! ! This is as of last week . . . and I have pictures to prove this if anyones interested. You're right, this is a bad section of town for many reasons. . . but if you whatch youself you can get in and out and get any pictures you may want (need) to take. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 17:02:22 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Doug, Built in 1941 and 1942 the 200 N5c cabin cars were commonly called the "porthole" or "lionel" cabin car. The most pronounced spotting characteristics setting it apart from the rest of the N5 class were its round "porthole" windows two in eithe side and in either end and it's slightly off center streamlined cupola. Two hundred N5b were built new between 1939 and 1941. It represented a refining and updating of the 1914 N5 design. The main spotting point was that its riveted belt rail and windows were higher than on the 700 or so N5 cabins built between 1914 and 1924. An N5b also had AB braked with vetically mounted brake wheels mounted on stands inside the end platforms. The end sills with anti-climbers were greatly renforced and four 8-inch I-beams were used as end posts on each platform, greatly enhancing the protection of train crew during collisons. As delivered the rode the PRR's "single spring" cabin car truck. The N5a was a five car subclass in which N5 cabins were outfitted with Dureya "sliding" cushioned underframes and visually not discernable from the N5. This was also the case with the single car N5d subclass which also varied only in the type of underframe. I forget the vendor's name. Also a single car subclass, the N5E was a fore runner of the N8. rebuilt from a wrecked N5 in 1945, the N5e had the slightly offset (13") streamlined cupola of the N8 and four sets of paired side windows. The N5f cabins were all assigned to the Delmarva area and had a N8 style tool box installed on the fireman's side. Only the N5, N5b and N5c had trainphone antenna installed on numerous cars. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:37:05 -0800 (PST) From: george carey Subject: [PRR] PRR equipment questions Doug et al: Help I just saw a photo of cabin car numbered 22841. It appears to be an N5b (square windows, square cupola). However, it is marked "BLT 2-41 N5C." Is this for real or is it a private owner's imaginative re-numbering and re-paint job? Picture can be seen at http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr22841.jpg GDC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR equipment questions Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 17:27:24 -0500 George:- First, the number is WRONG for PRR, it should be in the 477000 series I believe. The 22000 series number is PENN CENTRAL. Looking at the windows, it looks like one of the N5 cars rebuilt by the PRR in the late 1960s and painted orange. The lettering looks slightly amateurish, but I've seen worse come out of railroad shops. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "george carey" To: Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 3:37 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR equipment questions > Doug et al: > > Help > > I just saw a photo of cabin car numbered 22841. It > appears to be an N5b (square windows, square cupola). > However, it is marked "BLT 2-41 N5C." > Is this for real or is it a private owner's > imaginative re-numbering and re-paint job? > > Picture can be seen at > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr22841.jpg > > GDC > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 17:37:09 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. Doug, Nope, just find pictures of cabins with trainphones and note their number and remember that the static of high voltage rendered then useless under catenary. Hmmmm, eight N5 cabins maybe leaning a bit heavily to one class. Howver, the N5 was the second most numerous cabin car on the Pennsylvania system. Accordig to Robert Johnston and Gary Roach's "Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania Railroad" in the Dec. 1973 issue of the Keystone on May 15, 1957 there was somewhere around 680 N5 cabins (684 is the number I rember. Please verify this before repating) in service systemwide on the PRR. On tnat day there also in service 825 N6, all but one N6a assigned to the Chicago Terminal division were N6b cabins, 200 N8, 199 N5c, 200 N5b, 12 NX23, 9 N5f, 4 Nd bobbers, 4 N5a, 1 N5e, 1 N5d, 1 N4. There is a searchable database of PRR cabin cars on Jerry Britton's Keystone Crossings PRR website. A location search will disclose the class and road number of cabin cars assigned to a sprcific location, say Xenia, Ohio; Grand Rapids, Mich., or Peoria, Ill. during the late 1950s. A litle more than a simple majority of N5 cabins were on lines west of Pittsburgh in May 1957 and a little more than a simple majority of N6b cabins could be found on Lines West of Pittsburgh & Erie -- respectively the lines which approved these designs and first placed then in service in 1914. The N5c, N5b and N8, 599 in all, were clustered for mainline, hot shot service in the along the New York-Chicago; New York-Washington D.C., lines and in the Pittsburgh area and heavily industrialized Northeast Ohio, all the NDs and NX23s were in the Pittsburgh region while, if I remember right, there were no N5c cabins assigned to the Lake Region and very few N8 cabins, if any, assiogned to the Southwest Region (again, I'm pulling this off the top of my head in a public library away from any PRR reference material. Please verify these numbers before repeating them). Remember that not all N5, N5b, N5c, and N8 cabin cars were outfitted with the induction trainphone. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 17:49:31 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: [PRR] 22841 not a cabin car number Sorry, George, It seems this is a fantasy paint job. All PRR cabin cars had six-digit car numbers beginning with a 4, a 7 or a 9. I'm fairly sure that the 22000 series was used on a box car or open hopper. I don't have my sources so I can't tell you which one. It was not a cabin car and N5c cabins did not have square side windows. Tom V. In a message dated Sat, 3 Mar 2001 3:45:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, george carey writes: << Doug et al: Help I just saw a photo of cabin car numbered 22841. It appears to be an N5b (square windows, square cupola). However, it is marked "BLT 2-41 N5C." Is this for real or is it a private owner's imaginative re-numbering and re-paint job? Picture can be seen at http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr22841.jpg GDC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 20:40:09 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] 22841 not a cabin car number In a message dated 3/3/01 5:57:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, LINESWEST@aol.com writes: > just saw a photo of cabin car numbered 22841, it is marked "BLT 2-41 N5C." > Is this for real or is it a private owner's imaginative re-numbering and re-paint job? Quite possibly using the build date as the road #? Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 21:01:05 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] 22841 not a cabin car number Not the built date but the PC/CR number . The 22841 was the PC /CR number of the ex PRR 477706 built 6/41. It is a class N-5B car . In May 1957 it was assigned to the Buckeye Region , Richmond Local pool. The car was renumbered and repainted PC on 11/8/68. Was repainted for CR on 1/13/77 and was sold by Conrail in 8/89. Hope this helps ---------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:14:23 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Mastro Subject: [PRR] Does an erection drawing exist for a G26/G26A? Hello all, I am hoping that someone can help me. I am in search of a G26 and/or a G26A erection drawing if one exists. I am willing to pay for an original or a copy. Thank you in advance for any help you can provide. Regards, Dan Mastro __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 07:08:16 -0500 Group, Here is a link to a website I found. I am in question of the last photo saying this engine is 6776? Could anybody help me I Saw a picture in Pennsy Power 2 of 6776 and it was an M1a or b Any info would be greatly appreciated. Link http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/class_m.htm Thanks Sam Vastano _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "GAS" Subject: [PRR] N5-c cabin Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 05:50:43 -0800 One thing for sure is the photo is not of a N5c cabin car. Without getting out the guide on cabin cars I can't say for sure which class it was originally. It is of the N5 class but not the "c". It obviously is rebuilt. So I would say N5a or maybe N5b. As for the built date. N5c s were built in the early 1940s, N8's 1950. In the hopper class even if the car is rebuilt it retains its' original built date. I believe this is true for all classes of rolling stock. Unless that is different for the cabin cars the built date on the car is incorrect for the PRR even if it was rebuilt. Maybe someone can shed some light on the process of redating built dates when cars are rebuilt. Greg Stone PRRT&HS member with special interest in the Renovo Yards. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 15:18:11 -0500 Ed, Grouyp, Would anybody know what engine # that is pictured? Thanks Sam >From: PRR5499@att.net >To: "Sam Vastano" >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? >Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 15:49:12 +0000 > > Mr Vastano, > The engine pictured as #6776 is not that >number.It is a M-1 #6800 to #6999. Also #6779 was a M-1b. > > Ed Case > Columbus > > Group, > > > > Here is a link to a website I found. I am in question of the last photo > > saying this engine is 6776? Could anybody help me I Saw a picture in >Pennsy > > Power 2 of 6776 and it was an M1a or b Any info would be greatly > > appreciated. > > > > Link http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/class_m.htm > > > > Thanks > > > > Sam Vastano > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 15:30:46 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - Potential Break In Service Due To Weather From: Jerry Britton Just a "heads up" to all that our servers are located in southcentral Pennsylvania, where up to 20" of snow is expected by Tuesday. At this time we only have about 3", but it is the heavy type, so downed trees are inevitable. With this comes the prospect for interruptions in electric or telco service which, in turn, could lead to your inability to reach the lists or web sites of DSOP.COM PENNSYRR.COM RAILFANCENTRAL.COM BRASSTRAINS.NET MODELRAILROADNEWS.COM WIRINGFORDCC.COM etc. Our unavailability online should not be construed as an untimely demise... we will be back!!! -------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. http://www.dsop.com listmaster@dsop.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 22:05:38 -0500 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR equipment questions. "george carey" wrote: > I just saw a photo of cabin car numbered 22841. It > appears to be an N5b (square windows, square cupola). > However, it is marked "BLT 2-41 N5C." > Is this for real or is it a private owner's > imaginative re-numbering and re-paint job? > > Picture can be seen at > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr22841.jpg The caboose in question is on display in Steubenville, Ohio. I've seen it before while chasing ore trains down the ex-PRR River Line. I think it's right off of Route 7 in the downtown area. -JWJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 21:39:16 -0600 Hi Sam--The photograph you cited makes for a great "case study" of PRR Mountains. The outside steam pipes between the cylinders and smokebox show that it is an M1. The photo is captioned incorrectly; M1a or M1b would be in the 6700 series, M1 in the 6800 or 6900 series. (The Staufer Rule emerges again: Never trust the caption on a PRR photo!) There is quite a bit of interesting info to be gleaned from this photo. First of all, the engine is in a "transition" configuration. It has the headlight on top of the smokebox with the generator in the original headlight position, but notice that there are two work platforms on the front: the original on top of the air tank and a smaller platform mounted to the smokebox front. By the mid-fifties both of these would be replaced with a single larger platform on the smokebox front. The engine also has a bar--or chicken coop--pilot. This, together with the 130P75 tender, may indicate the engine had been assigned to passenger service. It may be in this repair/storage line after being bumped from passenger service by the new EP20's. Unless this engine is 6861, that pilot would probably be replaced with a more "modern" drop coupler style. Other modernized appliances are also evident. The power reverse has been updated with an integral air reservoir, and the marker lights have been updated to the small "slotted lens" type. These may have been retained until retirement or updated again with the small single round lens type. The engine ahead is also probably an M1--note the Kiesel tender with four wheel trucks and doghouse. Wish we could read the number on the keystone. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 23:01:08 -0500 Sam, I downloaded that from the alt.binaries.pictures.rail newgroup a couple years ago. It was posted by Bud Laws, who gave me permission to place his posts on my site. I think I have the original download at work, so I'll check that to see if the # is any clearer. Bud usually puts the road # on the subject line, so that's probably where I got it. He often doesn't post the PRR class, so I'm not sure what the subclass would be. --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Sam Vastano To: Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 7:08 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? > Group, > > Here is a link to a website I found. I am in question of the last photo > saying this engine is 6776? Could anybody help me I Saw a picture in Pennsy > Power 2 of 6776 and it was an M1a or b Any info would be greatly > appreciated. > > Link http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/class_m.htm > > Thanks > > Sam Vastano > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: [PRR] Car Builders Cyclopedia 1940 for sale Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:32:15 +1100 Listers, I have a Car Builders Cyclopedia 1940 reprint by Kalmbach I have to sell. Any offers. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 02:28:59 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Bowser H21 hopper conversion Hello list, I wanted a relatively late H21a, and I wanted to try kitbashing it from a Bowser car (as many of you know, Westerfield does a late H21 without the bracing at the top of the sides). I saw Teichmoeller's approach in his PRR hopper car book (alas, this is one of the books the Post Office lost on my way to Korea; I will buy a replacement soon). I looked at Bowser's clam shell H21 body and the H21a body and tried swapping the hoppers. I cut up the H21a body for the hoppers (and kept the Crown trucks), while I cut the clam shell hopper section out of the H21 body and eliminated the archbar trucks. It took a lot of fitting and filing, but I was able to fit the sawtooth hoppers to the H21 body. I added pads of .030 styrene to the top of the center sill/underframe for the hoppers to rest on to get the right height. Things came out pretty well. It looks kind of ugly inside, so I'll run this car with a load; I weighted it to 4 ounces. I worked on factory painted models; you could strip or repaint to your taste. I ended up replacing the factory grab irons with wire because I broke the originals off during the sawing process. I saved the H21a ends to add to an Accurail GLa (I believe this is one of Andy Miller's favorite kitbashes; thanks for the idea!!!). As to whether or not this is easier than John Teichmoeller's approach, I'm not so sure. He excises the heavy top flange and replaces it with styrene, and he can run his car empty; I can't. His approach is the more elegant of the two! Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:29:52 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Steve Hoxie said: >This, together with the 130P75 tender, may indicate the engine had been >assigned to passenger service. It may be in this repair/storage line after >being bumped from passenger service by the new EP20's. Steve, Isn't that a "one man" doghouse on the back of that 130P75? Would the doghouse have been used on a loco in passenger service? I was bumming since at first glance (thumbnail) I though it might be an elusive M1 + 110P75 photo... I'm looking for an M1 with a 110P75 in 1944! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser H21 hopper conversion Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 06:42:16 -0800 Jeez, Doug, for the effort you could have done one of Al Westerfield's kits and gotten a better car in the end! Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 09:44:15 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: [PRR] M1 6776 - Not! (sorry) I checked my original downloaded file of the M1 in question, and the road number in the file name is 6976, not 6776. The original was a little clearer, and, while still blurry, the number on the headlight appears to confirm it as 6976 . As I said, there was no information about its subclass. Sorry about the mistake. The page is now corrected. -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 6776??? Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:55:09 -0600 Bruce--There are some photos around of M1's with 130P75 tenders with one man doghouse in service on passenger trains. 6810 is a good example. One place it is shown on a passenger train is in the Keystone of September 1979, page 15. Dual service for sure. Steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 14:53:46 -0500 From: Dave McNeil Subject: [PRR] POC70R Painting Info Listers, I have painted this POC70R but have been unable to find any pictures or lettering diagrams or class information with car numbers or names, if given. Can any of you point me in the right direction? I have a pretty good library of hardcovers and Keystones so a page reference or URL to an online photo would be a great help. TIA, Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:59:21 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Final project: PRR memories I was very enthousiast the last few days to read all those memories that so many of you have on the Pennsy, because -even more than photos- it gives you an idea how live really was during that period. Something I can only experience from you because I live in Europe and was born some 50 years late. For my final project on the Pennsy and Amtrak I would appreciate it if some of you can share your memories on the passenger operations on NYC-CHI route in 1944 or from travelling with Amtrak in 2000 because this is what railroading really is. (not reading how good Amtrak promotes itself) For an example in Belgium: The Belgian Railways promote themself as fast but I take the morning train every day to go to the university and I have NEVER came on time! Thanks, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen A. D'Addio" Subject: Re: [PRR] POC70R Painting Info Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:38:42 -0500 Dave, >From the "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering" book (p58), this is a Cafe-Observ.-Lounge. It is a Heavyweight painted Raymond Loewy two-tone. The car numbers are 1120-1122, 1124, 1131. From 1938 thru about 1941, Futura lettering was used. From mid '41- to about mid '42, lettering was in Block format. Then, (to keep it interesting), from mid '42 til sometime during 1946, the lettering was Modified Block. I hope this helps, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McNeil" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 2:53 PM Subject: [PRR] POC70R Painting Info > Listers, > > I have painted this POC70R but have been unable to find any pictures or > lettering diagrams or class information with car numbers or names, if > given. Can any of you point me in the right direction? I have a pretty > good library of hardcovers and Keystones so a page reference or URL to > an online photo would be a great help. > TIA, > Dave > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Caliciotti Jr." Subject: [PRR] New York Division towers Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:36:39 -0000 Lincoln (Metuchin NJ), Midway (Monmoth Jct. NJ), Nassua (Princeton Jct. NJ), and Morris (Morrisville PA) are all constucted of brick and follow the same modern design. I believe they were built in the early to mid fifties to replace the existing towers at those locations. Anybody have any idea what the previous stuctures looked like? Thanks Sam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: [PRR] Flea market puzzle Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:06:25 -0500 While at a flea market some time ago, in a box under the table was a 3 dome tank car. This freight car had oil company markings on it , but no other data. The reporting marks were "PRR...12349". The car was modified with these marks on top of whatever Tyco had originally put on it. Could anyone tell me if such 62'(?) cars with three domes ever existed? And if so where can I find technical data on them. I cannot ever remember the Pennsy havin g these, or seen them in any publication. Thanks guys Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:36:13 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] N6b vs N8 If you are thinking of O-gauge, you should also consider K-Line. They have recently come out with several gorgeous N5c's (with and without trainphone antenna) and an N8. These are lit and also produce smoke. There are at least 3 paint variants offered. K-Line is making a real bid for authenticity in many products. I am not impressed with the Williams offerings. Best wishes, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:27:30 EST Subject: [PRR] "O" Scale/Guage N6c In a message dated 3/5/01 9:51:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, GPandelios@aol.com writes: > K-Line is making a real bid for authenticity in many products. AGREED (check out the die cast gondola with sides from scrapped H-21's - making it a "pulpwood" car - matches a photo in the "Morning Sun" Book exactly). I was impressed by the care taken by K-Line in the research and the catalog article: I was not aware that the side hatch was only on the "Cabins" that had the train phone (was where the equipment was housed) I'm not quite as impressed by the model - is it to short, or does it just sit high on the trucks? Something looks wrong. I am not impressed with the Williams offerings. AGREED MTH has made 2 nice SCALE cabooses (N5c & N8) K-Line has made a nice attempt. Williams, however, has just remade the 1953 Lionel O-27 version (2" wide - not the scale 2 1/2" width) - Not impressive, even though you can buy this very Pennsy caboose in more than two dozen road names...... Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:25:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] EMD Builders Plate List,     Anyone have a EMD "Hot Dog" shaped Builders Plate handy? I need the dimensions in length and height. I want to have G Scale Decals made for my PRR F3's. The custom maker needs the correct size. Any help here?....Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:49:54 -0600 I have been working with some scanned in track plans of the Erie area and noticed on the East Lake Yard plan that they use a transfer table to shift cars for an elevator there. How many places on the PRR did this happen? An interesting modeling idea. Randy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 11:51:16 EST From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Bustleton branch Any details on this branch? Last time I was at Holmes probably ten years ago there wasn't much of it left beyond some buried tracks behind the tower. Where did it end. When was it out of service? who did it serve? Thanks, norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:27:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table If this was a general inquiry as to where there were transfer tables, the Long Island Rail Road certainly has (had?) one at their Morris Park shops. Ron Ziel's book Steel Rails to the Sunrise has a picture of it from before the turn of the century (pre-1900 that is!), so the Pennsy connection may be a bit tenuous! John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Randy Williamson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:47:11 -0600 I guess I should have clarified that with in non-backshop usage. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table > If this was a general inquiry as to where there were transfer tables, > the Long Island Rail Road certainly has (had?) one at their Morris > Park shops. Ron Ziel's book Steel Rails to the Sunrise has a > picture of it from before the turn of the century (pre-1900 that is!), > so the Pennsy connection may be a bit tenuous! > > John Bobsin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:09:57 -0500 (EST) From: chaslett@cse.l-3com.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table There is a PRR-constructed transfer table in Altoona, at the former passenger shops complex along Chestnut Avenue between 6th & 7th Streets. It is easily viewed from the Chestnut Avenue sidewalk. These shops are now owned by Union Tank Car, and the table is still used to move cars from bay to bay for repairs, refurbs, etc. Definitely an out-of-the-ordinary modeling idea. In a related topic, at the other end of what is left of the former shop area in Altoona (ie Juniata), there is the PRR-built turntable for the engine shops. It also remains in service to this day for NS, and is also easily viewed through the fence along (I believe) 6th St Juniata. Carl Haslett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:44:31 EST Subject: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table - modeling ideas In a message dated 3/6/01 1:25:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, chaslett@cse.l-3com.com writes: << the table is still used to move cars from bay to bay for repairs, refurbs, etc. Definitely an out-of-the-ordinary modeling idea. >> Does a switcher share the ride? or is there some other way of moving the cars off and back on at the other end? Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:03:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table From: aurora7@juno.com For what it's worth, The LIRR still uses the transfer table at Morris Park shops. There are no other transfer tables on the Island. The LIRR is phasing out (or has phased out) it's turntable usage. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" - Groucho ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:28:17 +1100 Randy, Not PRR but interesting is the Coors Brewery in Golden Colorado, They use a very Hi tech Series of Transfer tables to load beer into insulated boxcars. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:51:51 -0500 (EST) From: "H.&S." Subject: [PRR] Transfer table Hi all... Was'nt or is'nt there a transfer table at the former PRR,now Amtrak Wilmington shops? I know the turntable and roundhouse are gone, but i recall a transfer table being near the North end of the shops,perhaps now used by Amtrak for passenger cars and engines. On a related note. Thanks to all who have sent me info on Orangeville. Of interest was the track diagram and some pictures that George Pitz and Ken Meyer sent to me showing a couple of electrified tracks running up to the back of the roundhouse. I presume electric engines were run up to the roundhouse and pulled inside for repairs. A interesting detail to model. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:28:03 -0500 Pennsy has a transfer table in Renovo between the freight and passenger car repair shops. As of a year or so ago, it was still there, as were the shops and many of the support buildings. A friend and I managed to walk all around the facility and take pictures, and even managed to get inside through a broken out window. Nobody bothered us, although we were very careful not to attract any attention. We drove around back, left our car there, and roamed and took pictures to our heart's content! I'm afraid NS will either fence it off or tear it down, so don't wait too long if you're interested. Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme Nitz" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table > Randy, > > Not PRR but interesting is the Coors Brewery in Golden Colorado, They use a > very Hi tech Series of Transfer tables to load beer into insulated boxcars. > > Graeme Nitz > PRRT&HS Member #1313 > prr@unite.com.au > An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" > With a touch of Reading. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:19:50 -0500 (EST) From: chaslett@cse.l-3com.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of a Transfer Table - modeling ideas : > > << the table is still used to move cars from bay to bay for repairs, > refurbs, etc. > Definitely an out-of-the-ordinary modeling idea. >> > > Does a switcher share the ride? or is there some other way of moving the cars > off and back on at the other end? > > Dick Ross > Cleveland Union Tank Car has a "Critter" of sorts that shares the ride. I don't know how cars were moved in the PRR days, especially since the table doesn't look that long, and it was handling passenger cars. I'll have to check that out! Carl ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:15:12 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: "O" Scale/Guage N6c Dick Ross also commented on MTH's N5c and N8. I own them both, and they are also fine models. MTH actually started the quality and selection war currently going on in 3-rail O Gauge. Everyone (even Lionel) has had to start competing or lose marketshare. We've seen more authentic, more diverse, and higher quality products in the last 5 years than in the previous 30. Beats the heck out seeing Lionel issue yet another NYC Hudson or a PRR loco with the wrong wheel arrangement, doesn't it? ;^) ;^) ;^) Dick is also exactly right in characterizing the Williams N5c as a remake of the Lionel O27 PRR porthole caboose. Not very enticing at all. And in this 3-rail market, that just won't cut it. George Modeling the Weirton, WV-Steubenville, OH area in O gauge from 1948-1957 > "O" Scale/Guage N6c ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:49:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Follow Up ? /Builders Plate List, Thanks to those who informed me of the dimensions of the Hot Dog Builder Plate. That info will help have the decals made. Got a follow up question. Looking at photos of PRR A-B-A, A-B-B-A F Unit lash ups I see only the A Units recieved Builders Plates. Is this because Pennsy Numbered their B unit to correspond with a mated A? And therefore no need for a Builders Plate? Another list member today said he had seen B Unit Builders Plates before but can't confirm if they were Pennsy. Any insight on this? Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:55:52 -0800 (PST) From: James Anderson Subject: [PRR] Off Topic: URGENT virus warning Hi all. This warning is from our Corporate network people here where I work, so the info is highly reliable. Let's be careful out there! THERE IS A NEW, VERY DESTRUCTIVE VIRUS OUT. It is spead through e-mail with an attachment named "Naked Wife.exe". This will destroy system files on your harddrive. Do not open any attachment unless you know what it is, reguardless of who it is from. Bill Jim Anderson PRRT&HS 3995 Elmira Branch circa 1925 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "m mcm" Subject: Re: [PRR] Transfer table Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:31:17 -0500 There was a transfer table between the row of major shop buildings at Renovo, Pennsylvania. I saw it some years ago returning to Driftwood, Pennsylvania, from med school via "the scenic route." Mike Tronetti ----- Original Message ----- From: "H.&S." To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 5:51 PM Subject: [PRR] Transfer table > > Hi all... > > Was'nt or is'nt there a transfer table > at the former PRR,now Amtrak Wilmington shops? > I know the turntable and roundhouse are gone, > but i recall a transfer table being near the > North end of the shops,perhaps now used > by Amtrak for passenger cars and engines. > > On a related note. Thanks to all who have sent me > info on Orangeville. Of interest was the track > diagram and some pictures that George Pitz and > Ken Meyer sent to me showing a couple of > electrified tracks running up to the back > of the roundhouse. I presume electric engines > were run up to the roundhouse and pulled inside > for repairs. A interesting detail to model. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "m mcm" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: "O" Scale/Guage N6c Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:34:02 -0500 It has been nice to see other Pennsy O scale modelers posting. I do 2 rail; but we all share the availability dilema. I am known to occasionally take the wheelsets off of a good 3 rail model and replace them for 2 rail. Mike Tronetti ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:15 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: "O" Scale/Guage N6c > Dick Ross also commented on MTH's N5c and N8. > > I own them both, and they are also fine models. MTH actually started the > quality and selection war currently going on in 3-rail O Gauge. Everyone > (even Lionel) has had to start competing or lose marketshare. We've seen > more authentic, more diverse, and higher quality products in the last 5 years > than in the previous 30. > > Beats the heck out seeing Lionel issue yet another NYC Hudson or a PRR loco > with the wrong wheel arrangement, doesn't it? ;^) ;^) ;^) > > Dick is also exactly right in characterizing the Williams N5c as a remake of > the Lionel O27 PRR porthole caboose. Not very enticing at all. And in this > 3-rail market, that just won't cut it. > > George > > Modeling the Weirton, WV-Steubenville, OH area in O gauge from 1948-1957 > > > > "O" Scale/Guage N6c > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:07:44 EST From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Transfer tables I think we have gotten off the original intent of the message which was about transfer tables used at online customers of the PRR of which I know of none. There was and is a tansfer table at Logansport. the current owner repairs freight cars and uses it but is very non-railfan receptive. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 14:32:31 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: [PRR] Transfer tables NDBPRR said: I think we have gotten off the original intent of the message which was about transfer tables used at online customers of the PRR of which I know of none. ----------- The transfer table to which Randy was referring can be seen at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/ely_w2.gif Look at the upper left of the diagram, directly below the word "Presque". My guess is that a string of cars was loaded at the elevator, pushed onto the transfer table, moved to another track, and pulled off by a switcher and string of loaded cars. -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "GAS" Subject: [PRR] transfer table @ renovo Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:14:50 -0800 Bill the transfer table is still there. I was just there last weekend and took over 300 photos of interior shots. At this point I have been in every building now extant. As for Norfolk Southern tearing it down. NS has no rights to the property. The owners are the Clinton County Economic Partnership. They are going to tear much of the remaining shops down including the ornate italiante style portion of the Erecting shops, the casting and mold storage building, the office building, the blacksmith shop, and the power house. I can't say I blame them as many of these buildings now have major structural problems with the roofs. As for moving cars on and off the transfer table, I noted a pulley system on the one in Renovo that clearly was used to move the cars on to the table. I am not sure how this was used to get them off but I can imagine some ways. --Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Special interest Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:23:59 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: Flea Market Puzzle From: John Sheets Jim PRR 12349 was a series of X28a Box Cars, only 63 were still in service in 1965, 12349 was not one of them. the same Equipment Register shows no Tanks for revenue service. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:32:56 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: Flea Market Puzzle From: John Sheets Jim I was incorrect, the number 12349 was not a utilized series in the Register I have , 1965 Sorry for the confusion John > From: John Sheets > Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:23:59 -0600 > To: PRR Talk > Subject: Re: Flea Market Puzzle > > Jim > > PRR 12349 was a series of X28a Box Cars, only 63 were still in service in > 1965, 12349 was not one of them. > > the same Equipment Register shows no Tanks for revenue service. > > John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR M1 Photo Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 22:08:22 -0500 Group. I am looking for pictures of PRR M1 # 6976. If anybody has a picture of this engine could you please contact me off list. I want to model this engine and I have only the right side of it. I would like to see the air pump detail. Thanks in advance Sam Vastano _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:21:17 -0500 From: Steve Hanlon Subject: [PRR] diesel pilot lettering I am looking for info on diesel pilot lettering. At one point in time i came across a guide but seem to have lost it. -steve hanlon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:25:34 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: [PRR] PRR Special on PHL PBS Channel needs info The PRRT&HS Philadelphia Chapter has been asked to help the local PBS station research the PRR for a special that will air sometime in June. If you have any of the information requested below, please contact Andrea at Channel 12, WHYY; phone number 215-351-1267. Thanks, Bill Morlitz PRRT&HS Website Superintendent Did You Work For The Pennsylvania Railroad? (or your parents or grandparents?) Philadelphia’s Public Television Station WHYY is producing an hour television documentary on the history of the Pennsylvania Railroad. The producer of the show is looking for people to share their experiences working on the PRR through on-camera interviews. Some of the people we are looking for include: Engineers who worked for the PRR Women, both Caucasian and African American, who worked for the PRR during W.W.II An African American male who worked as a Pullman Porter on the PRR Someone who worked laying track or repairing track for the PRR A shop worker who worked at Baldwin Locomotives or in Altoona building steam locomotives Descendants of John Edgar Thomson, Thomas Alexander Scott, George Brooke Roberts or Alexander Cassatt We would also be open to talking to people who's parents or grandparents worked in any of these capacities, provided that they have good stories (factually accurate of course). If you’re interested, have any questions or know anyone who fits the criteria please contact: Andrea Elovson, Producer WHYY 215-351-1267 e-mail: aelovson@whyy.org We look forward to hearing from you! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mike Morrow" Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch Operations Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:02:21 -0500 Hi all, Is there anyone on the list who has a good understanding of operations on the Elmira Branch during the 1950's? Specifically helper operations between Newberry and Southport. Thanks. Mike Morrow PRRT&HS #6703 The Elmira Branch 1956-57 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:48:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] (PRR Item-eBay Warning! Guys, Just wanted to alert any perspective bidders on an item I seen and bid on on eBay. A seller has listed a #1 Gauge GG-1 by GHB International. He has the description, several photos of the engine and a magazine ad to help sell this loco. I placed a bid last night. It now stands at $262.00+. I was expecting a really good bargin. I then had questions about this loco. A picture he has listed shows a race car truck hualer in the background. This towers over the GG-1. So last night I emailed a question to the seller as to how long the GG-1 actually is. I just heard back. This GG-1 is a full 11" long. Wow! Pretty small GG1 for #1 Scale don't you think?. Yes I have retracted my bid. He has this listed as a GHB #1 Gauge GG-1 but in reality, it is probably an AHM HO Scale GG-1. If he dosn't make a post on his auction, can you imagine the lucky bidder sending his payment in for a 1/32 Scale GG1 and receiveing an HO Model. Boy, I'd hate to be that winning bidder. To find the auction just do a search for CG-1 or CG1. The seller didn't even get the GG-1 right........Gary PS: I will alert the other bidders if the seller dosn't do something about this first...... Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRR5499@att.net Subject: [PRR] M-1a photograph Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:21:31 +0000 List, Looking for a Photo of M-1a #6727 front end view around 1955 or later.Please E-mail off line. Thanks, Ed ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Locomotive Workshop Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:22:29 -0600 (CST) From: george.pierson@trnty.edu Hi, all, In the April, 2001 issue of RMC, p.92, is an ad for the Locomotive Workshop of Englishtown, NJ, indicating that they have HO versions of the PRR T1, HC1, and K2. Does anyone know about this outfit? What are the kits like (I assume they are kits)? TIA George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 12:41:58 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - Listmaster/Webmaster On The Lamb! From: Jerry Britton Since web sites and/or lists being off-line tend to make some people jump to the wrong conclusions, I'm just making this courtesy post to let everyone know that I am leaving town later today and will be returning on the 18th. My servers have been very stable lately and, computer gods willing, will make the week without mishap. All servers have auto-restart functions if they detect one of their services (web, ftp, list, etc.) down, so that should not be an issue. The only two gremlims worth worrying about are: * ISP failure (happened twice in 14 months of DSL) * Power failure longer than 30 minutes (duration of UPS) So, if the web sites/lists appear to be down, rest assured that they WILL return to service quickly upon my return. Though I am unlikely to participate (unless needed), I do plan to monitor the lists via a hotmail.com account. BTW: I'm heading to the Tampa area. Anything worth seeing train-wise? I do plan to take my boy to the railroad station at least. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Listmaster/Webmaster ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:41:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Two New Books of Note From: Jerry Britton Two new books worth noting: "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Cars, Volume 1, Coaches", by Bob Sweetland and Bob Lillejstrand, The Railroad Press. $13.95. Available now. (Can't wait to see what the future volumes are going to be, and when!) "Pennsy Steam Years, Volume 3", by Bert Pennypacker, Morning Sun Books. List Due in August 2001. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:46:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Registration Packet Now Online! From: Jerry Britton The 2001 PRRT&HS Convention Registration Packet is now available online as a downloadable Adobe Acrobat PDF file. This is provided as a service of the Cyber Division of the PRRT&HS... http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com I was asked to hold the file until today, when the hard-copy version hits the traditional mail system. Hopefully it will help those who suffer from long mass-mail delays and those overseas. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 17:20:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] L1s "Lollipops ?" Any know why the L1s is sometimes refered to as a Lollipop?--Mark L --- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:29:00 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Two New Books of Note Jerry, Many years ago someone (Robert Wayner, Bob Reid?) Published a book by that title. It contained all of the PRR "diagrams" for coaches. Does the current book do anything different? Are there any fotos? BTW Vol II of the Wayner(?) books was on diners. No further volumes ever appeared. Jerry Britton wrote: > > Two new books worth noting: > > "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Cars, Volume 1, Coaches", by Bob Sweetland > and Bob Lillejstrand, The Railroad Press. $13.95. Available now. (Can't wait > to see what the future volumes are going to be, and when!) > > "Pennsy Steam Years, Volume 3", by Bert Pennypacker, Morning Sun Books. List > Due in August 2001. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Two New Books of Note Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:03:03 -0500 The previous books were put out by Bob Reid. The current books are essentially put out by Bob's Photos so I'd assume that they are mainly photo books.... Another sort of depressing new PRR book is The Destruction of Penn Station by Peter Moore. It's a photo journal of Penn Station just before and during demolition. It has some real nice pre-demolition detail shots. Amazon has it for 32 bucks.... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Andy > Miller > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 4:29 PM > To: Jerry Britton > Cc: PRR-Talk LIST > Subject: Re: [PRR] Two New Books of Note > > > Jerry, > > Many years ago someone (Robert Wayner, Bob Reid?) Published a book by > that title. It contained all of the PRR "diagrams" for coaches. Does > the current book do anything different? Are there any fotos? > > > BTW Vol II of the Wayner(?) books was on diners. No further volumes > ever appeared. > > Jerry Britton wrote: > > > > Two new books worth noting: > > > > "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Cars, Volume 1, Coaches", by > Bob Sweetland > > and Bob Lillejstrand, The Railroad Press. $13.95. Available > now. (Can't wait > > to see what the future volumes are going to be, and when!) > > > > "Pennsy Steam Years, Volume 3", by Bert Pennypacker, Morning > Sun Books. List > > Due in August 2001. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > Free serving of railroad web sites > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > -- > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > =================================================== > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Locomotive Workshop Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 20:25:29 -0500 George, Group, I talked with someone there about a year and a half ago and teh are modifying a bowser T1 into a 3 porthole version. With correct drivers?? Haven't contacted them since They wanted over 300.00 for their kit version. Hoe this helps Sam Vastano >From: george.pierson@trnty.edu >To: prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] Locomotive Workshop >Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:22:29 -0600 (CST) > >Hi, all, > >In the April, 2001 issue of RMC, p.92, is an ad for the Locomotive Workshop >of >Englishtown, NJ, indicating that they have HO versions of the PRR T1, HC1, >and >K2. Does anyone know about this outfit? What are the kits like (I assume >they >are kits)? TIA > >George Pierson > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 21:45:19 EST Subject: [PRR] FT's Lists, This is off subject for the PRR folks, unless you are modeling interchanges with the PRR. Witnessed the demonstration of Division Point's FT's in HO scale today. This is the first time I have seen the Div. Point products and it was awesome!! They have done an unbelievable job with these units; units are specifically detailed for each road. Quiet, not until near full speed could the motor be heard and there was no gear noise. The slow speed operation is also near perfection. The detailing includes full cab interior with crew and super clear windows that one would swear is lab slide glass. If you are in to brass, this is as near to modeling heaven as it comes. There are the SRR 3-unit set, Rock Is. 3-unit set, MoPac A/B, RDG A/B, Milw. A/B, and Santa Fe (early scheme) units still available. There is a second run in the works for a June delivery. Contact Div. Point or Caboose Hobbies for info. on these units. Now if you'll forgive me for being brief, I have to go put a new set of FT A/B units into service on the Cpa (Jersey City) - Rutherford (Harrisburg) run so that the transfer move to Enola yard will not be late. Later, Evan PS RDG List. Div. Point had four RDG sets left this morning but are now down to three sets. The Stewart FT's will stay but what to do with that Cary/Athearn/A-Line set of FT's? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 00:05:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR F3's Lists, Finally! My ongoing project concerning the 1/29 Scale USA TRAINS PRR F3 A-B-A Lashup has been 99.99% completed. I guess I am far enough along now to show the locos in their near completed form, minus the Builders Plates which I am still waiting for. The work I put into these has been well worth the effort. Will I do it again? Nah, bring on the GP-30's and E-8's. I am ready for those. Feel free to visit my 1/29 Scale Project page at http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/index-PRRF3.html Enjoy the pics....Thanks, Gary PS: Thanks to Greg, Al and others who informed me of certain specific detailing. Your help was much appreciated. Thanks also to Dayna. Without the help of her, my parts may not have been possible. Although the models may not be 100% accurate, what model is?, I am well satisfied with the final outcome. Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "GAS" Subject: [PRR] Pullman Standard 40 and 50 foot boxcars Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 05:30:14 -0800 Did the Pennsy have any of the PS-1 40ft or 50ft boxcars. If so what years were they aquired and what class were they. I am sure you HO guys have had these available for years. In O scale Weaver has been doing the PS-1 40 ft for years in many PRR paint schemes. But now Atlas O is doing the cars non-PRR in 50ft version. I am modeling up to 1950 and am considering doing the 20s or 30s. I would guess if the PRR had these cars they came on around the 40s and early 50s. --Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Special interest: Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BlockTruck@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:18:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] FT's A-N-D F-3s If you're not in the part of the country that is convenient to Denver, you can get your Reading FTs here. Evan didn't mention that after the second batch of Division Point FTs coming this summer, Division Point will be doing F-3s. Pennsy and Reading F-3s will certainly be included. The work-up on the F-3s isn't finalized yet, so email me with any information about what you would like to see included on the model. Todd ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman Standard 40 and 50 foot boxcars Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:45:09 -0800 Greg Stone asked: "Did the Pennsy have any of the PS-1 40ft or 50ft boxcars? If so, what years were they acquired and what class were they?" Greg, Unlike the rest of the railroad industry, Pennsy never did get into PS-1's in a big way, and acquired only 20 40 ft PS-1 boxcars in February 1954 (Class X48, 47000-47019). The cars were equipped with a sliding center-sill cushioned underframe, and were originally painted in the SK1a scheme, with "calendar" numerals and black ends (a P-S trademark). Pennsy owned no 50 ft PS-1's. "I am modeling up to 1950 and am considering doing the 20s or 30s. I would guess if the PRR had these cars they came on around the 40s and early 50s." PS-1's are definitely a post-war car - the first 40 ft cars were delivered to LV in 1947 (PRR Class X48 - 2/54), and the 50 ft cars didn't start appearing on the railroads until 1950. In fact, if you're considering doing the 1920s-1930s, the most modern steel boxcars you'd have are the 1932 ARA and AAR designs, and your most common steel cars would be X29s, ARA, and NYC USRA steel cars. PS-1's and any cars with Improved Dreadnaught Ends are definitely out, as these didn't appear after WWII. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Remington X23 boxcar kit Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 19:58:44 -0500 Lists: Completed the Remington PRR X23 boxcar kit I picked up on eBay today. Can see why this firm was not successful. If the kit were built per the instructions it would be extremely fragile and weigh nothing. I used the following additional materials: Kappler Lumber 1/8" by 3/4" basswood (cut to 8'3" N scale width), small linotype slug, Evergreen .020" x .020" strip, .005" sheet, .010" sheet, .020" scribed .040" siding, Gloor Craft bolsters, Precision Scale AB brake system, Gold Medal Models ladder stock, Clover House 008 wire, Micro-Trains boxcar stirrups, and Fine N Scale brakewheel and rod. Much of the kit was to be cut out of paper, for which I substituted ,005" plastic sheet.. I am satified with the final product, even though it has no rivet detail, as it is the only way I'll probably ever get a model of an X23, one of the PRR's most distinctive designs. Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 20:34:06 EST Subject: [PRR] Cabin Car #22841 George Carey & List, Can you tell me where that Cabin Car photo was taken? Would it be a street corner in Steubenville, Ohio? I have a picture of that cabin car, possibly from the other side, that shows wooden stairs at each end. It's a tourist attraction. I thought someone posted that this car had been renumbered (looks like a Conrail #, doesn't it?) and that it had spent some time in Mingo Jct, OH. George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] PRR F3's Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 20:30:53 -0500 Gary, Looks good - nice work. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: Fw: Fw: [PRR] Pullman Standard 40 and 50 foot boxcars Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 19:15:24 -0800 Forwarded from Chuck Freidlein (ironhorse@sprintmail.com): As regards the PRR's X48 PS-1 40' box cars, they were all delivered with Pullman's typical "trademark" of painting the ends black. This was of course very much un-Pennsy, and I'm told it really T'd off the Pennsy folks when they first saw them. Whether or not this may have had any bearing on why The PRR didn't get any more is open to discussion as I don't recall ever reading anything that addressed that issue. Chuck Friedlein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:53:26 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Two New Books of Note Thanx Rob, After sending the email, I thought to check TRP's website. They show the book and describe it as having a lot of B&W fotos - a definite winner. Of course color would be better, but so would 3D digital video with stereo sound, but this is 1950 were talking about, so I'm happy to have B&W fotos. I would love to see a book like this inspire someone to make P70Ks and/or P70gs's. As far as I can tell, they were the dominant rebuilds prior to WWII. HO has been blessed with models of the P70FAR (Walther's and ECW), but I think they were far rarer. The K was the common overnight coach prior to the P85B, and the GS was the common long distance day coach prior to the P70FBR. One of my favorite fotos is of the dedication ceremony for the K4 at HS Curve. Its a rainy day and the special train is lined up behind the ceremony in the middle of the curve. The whole train is wet shiny P70GS's. Rob Schoenberg wrote: > > The previous books were put out by Bob Reid. The current books are > essentially put out by Bob's Photos so I'd assume that they are mainly photo > books.... > > Another sort of depressing new PRR book is The Destruction of Penn Station > by Peter Moore. It's a photo journal of Penn Station just before and during > demolition. > It has some real nice pre-demolition detail shots. Amazon has it for 32 > bucks.... > > Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Andy > > Miller > > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 4:29 PM > > To: Jerry Britton > > Cc: PRR-Talk LIST > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Two New Books of Note > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > Many years ago someone (Robert Wayner, Bob Reid?) Published a book by > > that title. It contained all of the PRR "diagrams" for coaches. Does > > the current book do anything different? Are there any fotos? > > > > > > BTW Vol II of the Wayner(?) books was on diners. No further volumes > > ever appeared. > > > > Jerry Britton wrote: > > > > > > Two new books worth noting: > > > > > > "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Cars, Volume 1, Coaches", by > > Bob Sweetland > > > and Bob Lillejstrand, The Railroad Press. $13.95. Available > > now. (Can't wait > > > to see what the future volumes are going to be, and when!) > > > > > > "Pennsy Steam Years, Volume 3", by Bert Pennypacker, Morning > > Sun Books. List > > > Due in August 2001. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > Free serving of railroad web sites > > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Andy Miller > > asmiller@mitre.org > > > > =================================================== > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:00:47 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR: Erie-built question From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Were there backup lights on the rear ends of either (both?) the Erie-built A units and B units? If so where were they mounted? I cannot find a photo of the rear end of either unit in any of the books I have. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:43:24 EST From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] GG1's The following questions have been asked on AOL: 1. What color were the insulators on GG1 bewteen the roof and the pantograph? 2. When they were serviced and the unit was painted were the insulators painted? 3. Some imported brass models have white insulators were any of the real ones white? 4. Was any G ever painted Pullman Green? Thank you for your replys. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:58:00 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR: Tell tales (or whatever you want to call them) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" I stumbled across the following while looking for something else. There is a two page spread (70-71) in Pennsy Diesel Years, Vol. 2, of tell tales strung across the Altoona yard. A set of 4 GP7's with a coal train is passing under them on the way toward Horseshoe Curve. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:53:32 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1's --- NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > The following questions have been asked on AOL: > 2. When they were serviced and the unit was painted > were the insulators painted? Doubt it very much, as painting the insulators would reduce their effectiveness as insulators. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:48:43 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1's In a message dated 3/12/01 1:53:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, NDBPRR@aol.com writes: << 1. What color were the insulators on GG1 bewteen the roof and the pantograph? The real ones were brown in color. 2. When they were serviced and the unit was painted were the insulators painted? The insulators were either masked off or removed when the units were painted. 3. Some imported brass models have white insulators were any of the real ones white? Have never seen any that color and a question to a friend who works at Wilington shop and has done so for almost 35 years said all were brown. 4. Was any G ever painted Pullman Green? No !!!! DGLE or Brunswick whatever you like to call it. Tuscan red , black in the PC /CR years and the multicolor Amtrak schemes. Oh !!!!! also the CR 4800 bi centenial scheme. ----------------- Ken McCorry >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:42:27 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1's In a message dated 3/12/01 5:01:28 PM Central Standard Time, KEMACPRR@aol.com writes: << 4. Was any G ever painted Pullman Green? No !!!! DGLE or Brunswick whatever you like to call it. Tuscan red , black in the PC /CR years and the multicolor Amtrak schemes. Oh !!!!! also the CR 4800 bi centenial scheme. >> It may have been a problem with paint fading, but in 1973-4 when I lived near Paoli, some PC G's looked to be painted a kind of olive green not unlike Pullman Green. Just didn't look like Brunswick Green to me, but again, it may have been severely faded. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1's Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:39:29 -0500 Bob and list: All I can say is... some strange paint jobs came out of the shops during the PC era, some authorized and some not. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1's > In a message dated 3/12/01 5:01:28 PM Central Standard Time, KEMACPRR@aol.com > writes: > > << 4. Was any G ever painted Pullman Green? > No !!!! DGLE or Brunswick whatever you like to call it. Tuscan red , black > in the PC /CR years and the multicolor Amtrak schemes. Oh !!!!! also the CR > 4800 bi centenial scheme. >> > > It may have been a problem with paint fading, but in 1973-4 when I lived near > Paoli, some PC G's looked to be painted a kind of olive green not unlike > Pullman Green. Just didn't look like Brunswick Green to me, but again, it > may have been severely faded. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] Tender train phone/transmitters Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:20:03 -0500 I posed this question several months back and I don't recall getting an answer. Does anyone know if the train phone antennae and transmitter coils on the decks on tenders were painted black or would they have been the same red color as the deck itself. I'm at that stage in painting now and want to make the model as accurate as possible. thanks in advance Kris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 02:15:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender train phone/transmitters Kris, It appears that every color photo I have seen shows these items as a dark finish. Is it Black or is it DGLE? According to the 1929 painting instructions, Pipe and Fixtures was to be painted Black. When questions like this come up I always refer to one of the greatest models ever produced. In the early 1990's Marketing Corporation of America, now known as Fine Arts Models, produced the M1a Class Locomotive in 1:32 Scale. I could never afford it but I did send away for their portfolio of the engine. It includes great closeup pics of this model. Supposely great pains have been taken to produce this M1a to exact minature of the original, including the paint. (A quick side note. The Smithsonian Institute refused to accept this model for display because their curators spotted what they thaught was a mis-routed pipe. They were wrong and Fine Arts prooved it. The Loco was then allowed in for exhibit. Thats how good this model is. End side note) Back to your question. These model photos show different views in which you can see what was painted Black and what was painted DGLE. This Tender has what appears to be Black Antenna Masts, Antenna Pipe, Recievers and Marker Lights. Where the pipe makes its 90 degree turn to head down the back of the tender it is still painted Black. If you follow that pipe down till you are even.with the top of the deck, the pipe then gets painted DGLE. All small pipe, conduit on the rear of the tender is DGLE, The front and rear steps and sills are black as well as the Trucks, Underframe. and Railings. I have done this on many models I have painted. Sometimes you can see the different colors, sometimes not, depends on the weathering. Weathering seems to blend everything together. But if you paint a loco as it would appear after a shopping, yes you can see the differences, just like this 1:32 Scale M1a. . Boy, I made a quick answer rather long didn't I ......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:01:36 +0100 From: Burkhard Sanner Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1's NDBPRR@aol.com scribit: > The following questions have been asked on AOL: > 2. When they were serviced and the unit was painted were the insulators painted? May I add a question of my own? Was all servicing of GG1s done in the shops in Wilmington, even large overhaul, or have units been towed to Altoona shops for heavier work? If so, is there any photo of GG1s on the transfer over the Middle Division, and what are possible engines to haul them? At least for delivery, electrics must have been seen rolling alongside the Juniata. Regards from the morning side of the Atlantic, Burkhard Sanner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 04:16:50 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1's --- Burkhard Sanner wrote: > NDBPRR@aol.com scribit: > > > The following questions have been asked on AOL: > > 2. When they were serviced and the unit was > painted were the insulators painted? > > May I add a question of my own? > Was all servicing of GG1s done in the shops in > Wilmington, even large overhaul, or have > units been towed to Altoona shops for > heavier work? If so, is there any photo > of GG1s on the transfer over the Middle > Division, and what are possible engines > to haul them? On a related topic: My father worked in the East Pittsburgh Westinghouse plant from 1942 to 1947. Once WW2 ended, Westinghouse resumed holding their annual plant open house. We visited the plant in the summer of 1946. The company had arranged to have a GG1 on display at the plant. That was on a Saturday (or was it Sunday? I fergit.). Early in the following week, I observed the GG1 moving east through Latrobe. It was in an otherwise ordinary freight train. As I recall, there was an empty gondola car coupled to each end of the GG1, which was several cars back from the head of the train. Perhaps, were GG1's sent to Altoona, they were moved in a similar manner? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender train phone/transmitters Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:05:11 -0500 So you can actually tell where the color changes from black to DGLE? Awesome! I'm sold. I'm sure weathering will obscure the color change but I'll know its there. So just to be sure I've done everything as correct as possible everything else on the tender deck should be red (I won't even begin to talk about the correct shade). Water hatches, lift rings, tank vent grate/screen, ladder. This is the first tender I've done with the train phone antennae and it really looks cool. It certainly stands out from the rest. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: "Kris Kollar" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender train phone/transmitters > Kris, > > It appears that every color photo I have seen shows these items as > a dark finish. Is it Black or is it DGLE? According to the 1929 painting > instructions, Pipe and Fixtures was to be painted Black. > When questions like this come up I always refer to one of the > greatest models ever produced. In the early 1990's Marketing Corporation > of America, now known as Fine Arts Models, produced the M1a Class > Locomotive in 1:32 Scale. I could never afford it but I did send away > for their portfolio of the engine. It includes great closeup pics of > this model. Supposely great pains have been taken to produce this M1a to > exact minature of the original, including the paint. (A quick side note. > The Smithsonian Institute refused to accept this model for display > because their curators spotted what they thaught was a mis-routed pipe. > They were wrong and Fine Arts prooved it. The Loco was then allowed in > for exhibit. Thats how good this model is. End side note) Back to your > question. These model photos show different views in which you can see > what was painted Black and what was painted DGLE. This Tender has what > appears to be Black Antenna Masts, Antenna Pipe, Recievers and Marker > Lights. Where the pipe makes its 90 degree turn to head down the back of > the tender it is still painted Black. If you follow that pipe down till > you are even.with the top of the deck, the pipe then gets painted DGLE. > All small pipe, conduit on the rear of the tender is DGLE, The front and > rear steps and sills are black as well as the Trucks, Underframe. and > Railings. > I have done this on many models I have painted. Sometimes you can > see the different colors, sometimes not, depends on the weathering. > Weathering seems to blend everything together. But if you paint a loco > as it would appear after a shopping, yes you can see the differences, > just like this 1:32 Scale M1a. > . Boy, I made a quick answer rather long didn't I ......Gary > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:48:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender train phone/transmitters Kris, Small update on this subject. I heard from someone from this list earlier today and he shared this info. The "pipe" on the tender, IS the antenna. Personally I thaught the antenna was protected inside that pipe. Nope! According to this new info I have the Pipe was coated, NOT Painted, with a rubber outside layer. This was a Black color. You mentioned the oxideish red tender deck etc. You mentioned the ladder being red too. Which ladder are you speaking of? If it is the ladder that runs from the deck to the back top of the coal bunker, this is to be painted Black, not red. Also the 2 braces on either side of that ladder is Black too. Drains, Hatches, Lift Rings appear to be reddish. ....Hope this helps a little more....Gary PS: the original info I stated yesterday was from both the 1929 paintiing instructions and the views from the 1:32 Scale M1a. The 1929 instructions say that Loco Pipe was to be painted Black. I was thinking, when was the Train Phone put in service? After 1929? If so, then that 1929 instruction didn't pertain to the Antenna Pipe anyway..... Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:31:38 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] Maybrook, NY, cabin car/caboose? Hi, > > Is the caboose at the Maybrook, NY, RR Historical Soc. a PRR cabin car > or a NH caboose? It has been reported as both! > > Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 109 So. Madison St., Cortez, CO 81321-3733. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jimy6b@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:16:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Two New Books of Note Another great book I recently read called "Set Up Running" . This book is a factual biography about a PRR engineer. Time period between 1903-1949. The author John Orr tells of his fathers experiences on the PRR mostly on the Williamsport Division working out of Ralston Pa. This book is in short supply but I believe can still be purchased at Otto's Book Store in downtown Williamsport Pa. Jim Cuozzo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:45:42 -0500 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender train phone/transmitters Gary Mittner wrote: > Kris, > Small update on this subject. I heard from someone from this list > earlier today and he shared this info. The "pipe" on the tender, IS the > antenna. That's different from the tech description in Railway Signalling & Communications. They specifically say (in an article writ by the trainphone designers) that the rail has a wire inside, and THAT is the 'antenna'. > Personally I thaught the antenna was protected inside that > pipe. The designers of the trainphone system agree with you. > Nope! The designers of the trainphone disagree with this. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:30:02 -0800 Subject: [PRR] HH-1 tenders Hi list members, I've got a question about modeling the PRR class HH-1 locos - to be specific, the 2-8-8-2 class N&W Y3 articulateds acquired during the WW2 era - not the very original one-of-a-kind Alco-built HH-1 built during the 1910-era. The question I have relates to the tender - while I'm doing this in N scale, I believe the HO crowd faced a similar problem a while back when the HO version of this loco was released some years back (by LifeLike?), so I'm hoping the experience of those modeling in HO might be applicable in my scale as well. I've got one of the Atlas USRA 2-8-8-2 locos - N&W class Y3 - but with the as-delivered 4-axle USRA tender which was NOT what the locos had when they arrived on the PRR. I'm trying to match the loco to a tender from a Rowa 2-8-8-2 (a model of N&W class Y6) to make a more plausible PRR HH-1. The Rowa tender is probably reasonably correct for the Y6 class, has six axles and the overall appearance of the N&W tenders. I recall there was discussion on this very topic w/ respect to the HO tender, and I believe the HO model had the same problem (altho my memory on this might be faulty here - if so, someome please correct me on this). As I recall, some folks advocated shortening an HO Y6 tender and applying a new (scratchbuilt?) underframe with a fishbelly side sill. Is my memory on this correct? If so, has anyone done this, and how correct is the resulting tender? Was it (in your opinion) worth doing? If the result is not particularly close to the prototype, then I'll probably not go to any great trouble and simply run the Y6 tender as-is, but if a better alternative exists, I'll go for it. Any advice is appreciated... - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:46:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Cab colors Don, From the previous posts, I believe it was established that early PRR Diesel Interiors were a medium Gray Color with Red floor. Someone mentioned too that the Green color may have been an EMD Standard. Gray must have been an option? Need more input from ex-PRR Employees. Al?....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] HH-1 tenders Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:51:19 -0500 Claus:- The Bachmann auxiliary tender sold to go with the Class J most closely resembles the Y3 tender in trucks and shape, but of course a coal bunker has to be added. It has the correct curved tank and underframe girder. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claus Schlund" To: Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:30 AM Subject: [PRR] HH-1 tenders > Hi list members, > > I've got a question about modeling the PRR class > HH-1 locos - to be specific, the 2-8-8-2 class N&W Y3 > articulateds acquired during the WW2 era - not the very original > one-of-a-kind Alco-built HH-1 built during the 1910-era. > > The question I have relates to the tender - while > I'm doing this in N scale, I believe the HO crowd > faced a similar problem a while back when the HO > version of this loco was released some years back > (by LifeLike?), so I'm hoping the experience of those > modeling in HO might be applicable in my scale as well. > > I've got one of the Atlas USRA 2-8-8-2 locos - N&W > class Y3 - but with the as-delivered 4-axle USRA tender > which was NOT what the locos had when they arrived on the > PRR. I'm trying to match the loco to a tender from a Rowa > 2-8-8-2 (a model of N&W class Y6) to make a more plausible > PRR HH-1. The Rowa tender is probably reasonably correct for > the Y6 class, has six axles and the overall > appearance of the N&W tenders. I recall there was discussion > on this very topic w/ respect to the HO tender, and I > believe the HO model had the same problem (altho my memory on > this might be faulty here - if so, someome please correct > me on this). As I recall, some folks advocated > shortening an HO Y6 tender and applying a new (scratchbuilt?) > underframe with a fishbelly side sill. Is my memory > on this correct? If so, has anyone done this, and > how correct is the resulting tender? Was it (in your > opinion) worth doing? If the result is not particularly > close to the prototype, then I'll probably not go to any > great trouble and simply run the Y6 tender as-is, but if a > better alternative exists, I'll go for it. > > Any advice is appreciated... > > - Claus > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:03:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] HH-1 tenders Claus,       The problem we had with the HO Versions of this loco was the tender was a 16,000 Gallon job instead of the proper 18,000 gallon version. This is very noticable. The proper 18,000 gal.had a fish belly bottom sill and a tad longer shell?. I don't have the specifics right now. For now, I am living with the mis-equiped loco.         Now for your N Scale version. 1 of 2 things you can do. 1st: Wait and see if LifeLike releases this in N scale like they did a bunch of other HO to N scale models. It just may happen. I don't follow N scale so maybe the announcement has been made???         The second choice is to scratch build the tender. The Y6 tender is no good as is. You may be able to use that chassis and only need to build the tank. I am not familiar with that 4 wheel version you mentioned. Can that be reworked onto the Y6 tender chassis?...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:29:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS Newsletter Tomorrow, 16 March 2001, the latest edition of the PRRT&HS monthly electronic newsletter will be released. In it you will find additional information about the 2001 Annual Meeting in May, what's happening now at the Archives, Pennsy Days in June at Strasburg and lots of other info on other happenings and meetings. If you are not yet subscribed you can get this edition by signing up before 11:00 a.m. EST tomorrow Friday 16 March by sending a blank message addressed to - PRRTHSe-NEWS-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Thanx. Al - Editor ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/D5QVlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [CYBER] PRRT&HS Newsletter Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:29:35 -0500 Tomorrow, 16 March 2001, the latest edition of the PRRT&HS monthly electronic newsletter will be released. In it you will find additional information about the 2001 Annual Meeting in May, what's happening now at the Archives, Pennsy Days in June at Strasburg and lots of other info on other happenings and meetings. If you are not yet subscribed you can get this edition by signing up before 11:00 a.m. EST tomorrow Friday 16 March by sending a blank message addressed to - PRRTHSe-NEWS-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Thanx. Al - Editor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This list ("Cyber-Talk") is for discussion of Cyber Chapter (PRRT&HS) business only. All general modeling and/or Pennsy discussion should take place on "PRR-Talk". For assistance with this list, send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To access the "Members Only" section of the web site, click on a link and, when prompted, enter the user name "member" and the password "standardrr". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:36:06 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Hopper Photo Folks, Some time ago I recall seeing a photo of a PRR hopper car with a cover on the top and a hose or pipe protruding out from one end of the cover. As I recall it was presented as a mystery picture. Well I have just found out what that car was used for while doing research for the PRRT&HS upcoming book on company service work equipment (hopefully due out in late 2002). It was used to collect debris in conjunction with a ca. 1925 PRR vacuum style ballast cleaner. I have found a picture of this unique ballast cleaner and now need the photo of the trailing "dirt bag" car. I would appreciate knowing where I might have seen that photo and who owns it. It is needed for the book. Thanx for your help. Al ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to iWin.com for your chance to win! http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/D5QVlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Newsletter Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:29:35 -0500 Tomorrow, 16 March 2001, the latest edition of the PRRT&HS monthly electronic newsletter will be released. In it you will find additional information about the 2001 Annual Meeting in May, what's happening now at the Archives, Pennsy Days in June at Strasburg and lots of other info on other happenings and meetings. If you are not yet subscribed you can get this edition by signing up before 11:00 a.m. EST tomorrow Friday 16 March by sending a blank message addressed to - PRRTHSe-NEWS-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Thanx. Al - Editor ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [CYBER] Hopper Photo Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:36:06 -0500 Folks, Some time ago I recall seeing a photo of a PRR hopper car with a cover on the top and a hose or pipe protruding out from one end of the cover. As I recall it was presented as a mystery picture. Well I have just found out what that car was used for while doing research for the PRRT&HS upcoming book on company service work equipment (hopefully due out in late 2002). It was used to collect debris in conjunction with a ca. 1925 PRR vacuum style ballast cleaner. I have found a picture of this unique ballast cleaner and now need the photo of the trailing "dirt bag" car. I would appreciate knowing where I might have seen that photo and who owns it. It is needed for the book. Thanx for your help. Al ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This list ("Cyber-Talk") is for discussion of Cyber Chapter (PRRT&HS) business only. All general modeling and/or Pennsy discussion should take place on "PRR-Talk". For assistance with this list, send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To access the "Members Only" section of the web site, click on a link and, when prompted, enter the user name "member" and the password "standardrr". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Hopper Photo Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:36:06 -0500 Folks, Some time ago I recall seeing a photo of a PRR hopper car with a cover on the top and a hose or pipe protruding out from one end of the cover. As I recall it was presented as a mystery picture. Well I have just found out what that car was used for while doing research for the PRRT&HS upcoming book on company service work equipment (hopefully due out in late 2002). It was used to collect debris in conjunction with a ca. 1925 PRR vacuum style ballast cleaner. I have found a picture of this unique ballast cleaner and now need the photo of the trailing "dirt bag" car. I would appreciate knowing where I might have seen that photo and who owns it. It is needed for the book. Thanx for your help. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:45:45 -0500 From: Park Varieties Subject: [PRR] Santa Fe Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy Can any list members shed any light on the extent of Santa Fe (SFRD) reefer traffic on the Pennsy Pittsburgh/ Middle Divisions? In pictures that I have reviewed, there are a lot of PFE reefers but the appearance of a SFRD reefer appears to be rare. Did they generally use some other route like NYC or Erie to the East Coast or do I just have a bad picture sampling? Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Santa Fe Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:59:26 -0500 Frank: Based on an earlier posting on this subject, Andy Sperando(sic), Editor of Model Railroader, stated that the Santa Fe's preferred reefer routing east of Chicago was the Erie. Other railroads such as the Pennsy, NYC, and others got Santa Fe reefers but it seemed that Erie got the most. Please check the "archives" of PRR-Talk for this earlier thread. Please note that I am merely related what was mentioned in one of those earlier threads. I have no information myself to confirm or deny your question. Still, it is a very interesting subject. I am modeling the 40's and 50's so it will effect me too. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: Park Varieties [mailto:parkvarieties@provide.net] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 3:46 PM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] Santa Fe Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy Can any list members shed any light on the extent of Santa Fe (SFRD) reefer traffic on the Pennsy Pittsburgh/ Middle Divisions? In pictures that I have reviewed, there are a lot of PFE reefers but the appearance of a SFRD reefer appears to be rare. Did they generally use some other route like NYC or Erie to the East Coast or do I just have a bad picture sampling? Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Santa Fe Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:17:29 -0500 Frank and list: PFE Reefers were received from SSW at E. St. Louis and CNW, MILW, etc. at Chicago off UP, while ATSF perishable traffic was either received off ATSF at Chicago or possibly off WAB at Logansport, IN. So, SFRD's and PFE's would not have appeared in the same trains over the Middle Division as East Coast perishables were blocked for Enola from the Western gateways. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Park Varieties" To: "PRR Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 3:45 PM Subject: [PRR] Santa Fe Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy > Can any list members shed any light on the extent of Santa Fe (SFRD) > reefer > traffic on the Pennsy Pittsburgh/ Middle Divisions? In pictures that > I > have reviewed, there are a lot of PFE reefers but the appearance of a > SFRD > reefer appears to be rare. Did they generally use some other route like > NYC or Erie > to the East Coast or do I just have a bad picture sampling? > > Thanks. > Frank Brua > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:46:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Santa Fe Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy In a message dated 3/15/01 2:52:59 PM Central Standard Time, parkvarieties@provide.net writes: << In pictures that I have reviewed, there are a lot of PFE reefers but the appearance of a SFRD reefer appears to be rare. Did they generally use some other route like NYC or Erie to the East Coast or do I just have a bad picture sampling? >> The oft-printed photo of the Pittsburgh produce terminal shows many ATSF reefers. In light of the other posts, maybe there were other routings for reefers to the East Coast, but PRR was probably the routing of choice to Pittsburgh. Just a thought. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Santa Fe Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:30:11 -0500 List: Kinda hard to get to Philly, Ballamer, or DeeCee, on the Erie! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrews, Ted" To: ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 3:59 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Santa Fe Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy > Frank: > > Based on an earlier posting on this subject, Andy Sperando(sic), Editor of > Model Railroader, stated that the Santa Fe's preferred reefer routing east > of Chicago was the Erie. Other railroads such as the Pennsy, NYC, and others > got Santa Fe reefers but it seemed that Erie got the most. > > Please check the "archives" of PRR-Talk for this earlier thread. Please note > that I am merely related what was mentioned in one of those earlier threads. > I have no information myself to confirm or deny your question. > > Still, it is a very interesting subject. I am modeling the 40's and 50's so > it will effect me too. > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > -----Original Message----- > From: Park Varieties [mailto:parkvarieties@provide.net] > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 3:46 PM > To: PRR Talk > Subject: [PRR] Santa Fe Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy > > > Can any list members shed any light on the extent of Santa Fe (SFRD) > reefer > traffic on the Pennsy Pittsburgh/ Middle Divisions? In pictures that > I > have reviewed, there are a lot of PFE reefers but the appearance of a > SFRD > reefer appears to be rare. Did they generally use some other route like > NYC or Erie > to the East Coast or do I just have a bad picture sampling? > > Thanks. > Frank Brua > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:58:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Keystone Color on Pass. Car Lists, I need some quick help on a project I am finishing up. I actually thaught I was done but reread the customers instructions for this item. I am painting a Soho Imorts Congo Car. This one in particular is the Coffe Shop Car. I have the letter board and the thin stripe below the windows painted Tuscan Red and lettered with Dulux Gold. That is where I thaught I was finished. This customer also wants the Keystones placed on the car. I have the Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering Guide issued by the PRRT&HS. On page 115 is this exact car. I can not tell what color these Keystones are. Is it the shadow Dulux Keystone or Red/White Scotchlight type? The car next to the one I am modeling has the large Scotchlight type Keystone. I do not want that type. In my customers painting instructions he refers me to another pic which I have no access to. Anyone have PRR Color Guide Vol. 1? If so on Page 9 there is a car there that my customer wants duplicated, (Atleast that lettering version). Is this the same as the one pictured in the PRRT&HS book? Can someone please check? I need this car to be done by Saturday. Thanks a bunch....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Tender train phone/transmitters Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:18:47 -0800 From: "John Cooper" I know it is dangerous to disagree with something supposedly written by the designers of the trainphone system, but having an antenna inside the pipe doesn't make any sense to me. A wire inside steel pipe should be about as perfectly shielded from electro-magnetic energy as possible. It would be the same principle as today's coaxial cable where there is a conductor in the center of a metal sleeve. Coax is used because of its superb immunity to RF interference (and also its uniform impedance). In contrast, an antenna is supposed to radiate and absorb as much RF as possible. Could it be that there is a wire inside the pipe simply to ensure the electical continuity across pipe fittings between pipe sections, but that electrically the pipe was the antenna? Further insight would be much appreciated. John > ---------- > From: davep[SMTP:davep@quik.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 7:45 PM > To: Gary Mittner > Cc: Kris Kollar; PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender train phone/transmitters > > Gary Mittner wrote: > > > Kris, > > > Small update on this subject. I heard from someone from this > list > > earlier today and he shared this info. The "pipe" on the tender, IS > the > > antenna. > > That's different from the tech description in Railway Signalling > & Communications. They specifically say (in an article writ > by the trainphone designers) that the rail has a wire inside, > and THAT is the 'antenna'. > > > Personally I thaught the antenna was protected inside that > > pipe. > > The designers of the trainphone system agree with you. > > > Nope! > > The designers of the trainphone disagree with this. > > best > dwp > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:56:21 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Cab colors Dan and all, Not at all. The color for the interiors varied with the builder (of Diesels) and you need to know which builder and which period of time. What are you working on? Different railroad's interiors were different colors too. I was in E-7/8's in the Deadline at Altoona while the units awaited inspection from Amtrack and i noticed the Pennsy units were a light "machine gray" and the NYC units were a "suede Brown color. I would have thought it should have been reversed ... go figure? Greg Martin In a message "Donald E. Harper, Jr" writes: << In previous posts over the years it has been established that steam engine cab interiors were painted an apple green color. Was the same color used in early (up to, say 1955) diesels? Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:32:01 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Convention & State Archives From: Eugene Nowlan Does anyone know how signing up for the State Archives Tour is to occur? There is no place on the registration form for this. Gene Nowlan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:06:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Color on Pass. Car? List, Thanks to all who emailed me directly on this question. Final score 5-5. Meaning 5 listers looked at the photos I mentioned and say that the Keystones are Red/White and 5 had the opinion the Keystones are Red/Dulux Shadow Keystones. Hmmm. I broke the tie by deciding that the photo of the Coffee Shop Congo Car in the PRRT&HS Passenger Painting guide appears more like a Red/Dulux Shadow Keystone. The Soho Car is now finished. It resembles quite closely that car pictured. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:58:29 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Century 6-motor photos For those of you who've been following our discussion on the photo resources available to model a PRR or PC C628 (and after that, a C630), here is the size of the current list of "Published Photographs of Alco Century 6-motors". Hopefully the abbreviations for books and magazines will be self-evident. Description Refloc Reftitle Refpage Loc State PRR 6300 overhead view, with 6301. Both have air inlet shields PRR Color Pictorial Vol 1 037 Altoona 24th Street PA "PRR 6300 C628's and C630's delivered only with red ""class lights"" installed" PRR-Talk C628 & C630 (Al Buchan) PC 6300 and 6301 were control and slave units (Locotrol?) PC Power 230 PRR 6301 with air intake shield PP2 228 PRR 6301 Diesel Era Vol 3 No 6 37 PC 6301 with frontal horns, air intake shield, small PC on upper radiator panel PC Power 151 PC 6302 with frontal horns, air intake shield, large PC and PENN CENTRAL PC Power 151 PC 6302 is second unit at AR. Carries small worms on radiator panel, PENN CENTRAL across power doors, air intake shield PDY3 076 PC 6302 Diesel Era Vol 3 No 6 47 PRR 6303 with air intake shield, both rightside keystones on long hood PP2 293 PRR 6303 w/frontal horns PDY1 111 PRR 6303 Alco Official Color Photographs 089 PC 6304 with frontal horns, small red/white PC on upper radiator panel (Kerry L. Jury photo) PC Power 152 PC 6304 with frontal horns, small PC on upper radiator panel (Kerry L. Jury photo) PC Power 151 PC 6304 had red P logo PC Power 230 PC 6304 Diesel Era Vol 3 No 6 47 PRR 6305 with 6306 at Altoona yard PRR Color Pictorial Vol 2 053 Altoona PA PRR 6305 American Diesel Loco 193 PC 6305 with frontal horns, air intake shield, small PC on upper radiator panel (Kerry L. Jury photo) PC System Biannual 136 PC 6305 with frontal horns, air intake shield, small PC on upper radiator panel PC Diesel Spotter's Guide 30 PRR 6306 & 2 other C628at Sayre engine terminal (on loan for road tests). PP2 293 Sayre PA PRR 6307 w/frontal horns PDY1 128 PRR 6307 w/centered horns in 1965 PDY1 068 East Altoona PA PRR 6307 pushing past KR PDY2 105 Latrobe PA PRR 6307 midtrain power on The Curve PP2 298 Horseshoe Curve PA PRR 6307 PDY2 104 Derry PA PC 6308 with large PC and PENN CENTRAL PC Power 151 PRR 6309 Diesel Era Vol 3 No 6 47 PC 6309 with frontal horns, air intake shield, large PC and PENN CENTRAL PC Power 152 PRR 6310-6314 Stewart C628 has Phase IIa features Diesel Era Vol 3 No 6 39 PRR 6310-6314 Second order C628 PP2 PRR 6310 PP3 312 PRR 6311 in Sep 1967 at Walbridge PDY4 113 Walbridge OH PRR 6311 Diesel Era Vol 3 No 6 39 PC 6311 with frontal horns, no airshield, no PC on side PC Power 151 PC 6311 with frontal horns (front view) PC Power 152 PRR 6312 in Feb 1968, centered horns PDY1 042 PRR 6312 at BANKS in Feb 1967 PDY2 060 BANKS PA PC 6312 had red P logo PC Power 230 PRR 6313 in Oct 1969 w/o radio decal or intake shield PDY3 069 PRR 6313 in Mar 1969 with radio decal & without intake shield PDY3 069 PRR 6313 above The Curve PP2 299 Horseshoe Curve PA PRR 6314 Dragon Steel 070 PRR 6315 modeled using Alco models brass unit, acquired by Rick Tipton. RLT roster PRR 6315 in Sep 1967 w/o radio decal PDY3 071 Horseshoe Curve PA PRR 6316, 5 delivery pix show all but left side PP2 296 PRR 6316 brand new at Pitcairn in 1967 PDY1 128 Pitcairn PA PRR 6317 in Jun 1970 w/radio decal PDY3 071 Horseshoe Curve PA PC 6318 with offcenter frontal horns, large PC and PENN CENTRAL PC Power 153 PC 6318 front view with offset frontal horns PC Power 155 PC 6320 with top horns, small PC on upper radiator panel PC Diesel Spotter's Guide 31 PRR 6321 at Collinwood, dead RLT prints RLT color snapshot, 1970? Collinwood OH PRR 6321 MM 89-08 1 PRR 6322 with offcenter frontal horns, radio decal PC Power 153 PRR 6322 modeled by Stuart Thayer in an upcoming aritcle. email ST roster PC 6322 MM 89-08 1 CR 6772 photo(s) showing roof details MM 89-09 1 PRR 6323 with offcenter frontal horns, radio decal PC Power 154 PRR 6323 in silhouette, coming down The Curve PP2 298 Horseshoe Curve PA PC 6323 with offcenter frontal horns, small PC and big PENN CENTRAL PC Power 154 PRR 6324 with offcenter frontal horns, radio decal PC System Biannual 136 PC 6325 MM 89-08 1 PRR 6326 with radio decal PP2 229 PRR 6326 with offcenter frontal horns, radio decal PC Power 155 PRR 6328 MM 89-08 1 PC 6338 with offcenter frontal horns, small PC and big PENN CENTRAL. Rt quarter view, but bell not visible PC Power 156 PC 6338 with offcenter frontal horns, small PC and big PENN CENTRAL PC Power 156 PC 6341 with offcenter frontal horns, large PC and PENN CENTRAL PC System Biannual 136 PC 6344 with frontal horns above engr's window, big PC and PENN CENTRAL PC Diesel Spotter's Guide 32 PC 6342 front view with offset frontal horns PC Power 155 The question remains, what other photos are available, like on the web, and whether there are any good top-down shots for roof detailing. When we get this all collected, I'm going to ask Ken to repost his excellent notes on redetailing a Steward C628. Most folks seem to accept that the Stewart model is a phase IIa, which means we will all be modeling one of five locos (6310-6314) - a cheerful thought. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Modeling the Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/D5QVlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:02:03 -0500 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender train phone/transmitters John Cooper wrote: > I know it is dangerous to disagree with something supposedly written by > the designers of the trainphone system, It was. > but having an antenna inside the pipe doesn't make any sense to me. It does to me. (hint: I used to do EMI/RFI/EMC work....8)>>) > A wire inside steel pipe should be about as perfectly shielded from > electro-magnetic energy as possible. Depends on the frequency. These operated at 38 and 60 kHz. (roughly.... I can look it up) With a _K_. Low freq. At those freqs the mag field is essentially impossible to shield effectively. Indeed, the, steel tube imposed SOME loss, but it was required, as it needed to meet ICC requirements for grab rail strength. Put another way: Train phone was a LOT closer to a funny shaped, air cored, transformer than 'radio' in the usual sense. > It would be the same principle as today's coaxial cable where there is a > conductor in the center of a metal sleeve. Coax is used because of its > superb immunity to RF interference (and also its uniform impedance). In > contrast, an antenna is supposed to radiate and absorb as much RF as > possible. Unless it's leak' coax, which is used for some purposes, eg radio links in tunnels. Yah. I know about coax. > Could it be that there is a wire inside the pipe simply to ensure the > electical continuity across pipe fittings between pipe sections, but > that electrically the pipe was the antenna? The wire was the antenna. Due to the low freqs, the concept of 'antenna' as usually used changes. A Lot. > Further insight would be much appreciated. O DEAR. 8)>> I put that mag away. And it's 4-5 pages which I am not about to type in. With luck, i have saved a text file i have thereon. One tantalizing tidbit: There was a 'walkie talkie' version. Lunchpail sized electronics box, with an 'antenna' which looked JUST like a hula hoop. (OK OK, some one will ask 'a what'?). A loop roughly 3feet in diameter. The yardman's shoulder went thru the loop a sort of harness held the weight... best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:34:54 -0500 From: "David J. Wartell" Subject: Re: [PRR] Two New Books of Note I just finished the book myself. I found it very enjoyable. It is also available through Amazon.com. At 8:16 PM -0500 3/14/01, Jimy6b@aol.com wrote: >Another great book I recently read called "Set Up Running" . This book is a >factual biography about a PRR engineer. Time period between 1903-1949. The >author John Orr tells of his fathers experiences on the PRR mostly on the >Williamsport Division working out of Ralston Pa. This book is in short supply >but I believe can still be purchased at Otto's Book Store in downtown >Williamsport Pa. > >Jim Cuozzo > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". Dave Wartell djwartel@ix.netcom.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] F Units Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 09:37:59 -0500 Hi F Unit experts, I am asking this for a friend of mine. The PRR had a bunch of the phase IV F-3s (F5's). I just want to know if any of these (I am hoping at least 2 A units) had the 45° angles number boards. PRR 9529A thru 9589A, these all had dynamic brakes. Please reply to billlane@snip.net If you have photographic proof, it would be even better. I will figure out something to trade you for your efforts. Thank you Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 09:37:59 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] F Units Hi F Unit experts, I am asking this for a friend of mine. The PRR had a bunch of the phase IV F-3s (F5's). I just want to know if any of these (I am hoping at least 2 A units) had the 45° angles number boards. PRR 9529A thru 9589A, these all had dynamic brakes. Please reply to billlane@snip.net If you have photographic proof, it would be even better. I will figure out something to trade you for your efforts. Thank you Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/D5QVlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:04:17 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] F Units Bill, Unfortunately, the PRR didn't receive any F-units with "Bugeye" 45º number boards until after the first batch of F-7's (EH15A and EF-15A) were delivered by the end of April 1949. From that point on the all F-units received by the PRR were delivered with the "Bugeye" number boards. The story goes that the PRR was unwilling to pay the extra for the "Bugeye" number boards, EMD made the streamlined number boards the option. Who knows if that is true but it did change. And all of Pennsy's F-units were delivered with dynamic braking. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Lucas" Subject: [PRR] G5 Photo's Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 20:45:36 -0000 List Many, many thanks for all the help on G5 photo's, I have viewed a number now which means I will have to get on and finish the Bowser kit. It would be nice to get the right tender for a G5. Regards and best wish's to all James. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 23:18:24 -0500 From: Rail Classics Subject: [PRR] TM8/TM8b/TM10/TM12 Hello All; We at Rail Classics www.railclassics.com are collecting data for a possible project in "HO" scale brass. We need info and photos on PRR Tank Cars, classes TM8 / TM8b / TM10 / TM12. Any info that the list can furnish would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, EDDY at RAIL CLASSICS www.railclassics.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:02:43 -0500 From: Bob Johnson Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention & State Archives Gene and list, The answer is found in the State Archives tour description - "A random drawing from the registrations that are received by April 15th will choose the 15 people who get to go on this tour." Last year it was stated that anyone, who went on the tour then, would not be eligible to go this year. I assume that is still true. I also assume that far more than 15 names will be drawn to provide for a standby list to fill slots assigned to people who don't want to go on the tour. Bob Johnson Eugene Nowlan wrote: > > Does anyone know how signing up for the State Archives Tour is to occur? > There is no place on the registration form for this. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:37:47 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Santa Fe Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy Gregg Mahlkov wrote: >PFE Reefers were received from SSW at E. St. Louis and CNW, MILW, etc. at >Chicago off UP, while ATSF perishable traffic was either received off ATSF >at Chicago or possibly off WAB at Logansport, IN. So, SFRD's and PFE's would >not have appeared in the same trains over the Middle Division as East Coast >perishables were blocked for Enola from the Western gateways. Interesting...I'm curious as to what types of reefers would have appeared on the A&S (the Low Grade Line) between Enola and points East? In the videos I have, it can often be difficult to identify the reporting marks, and it seems clear that both individual cars and large blocks of cars were forwarded east over this line. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:53:25 EST From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] reprinted Keystones Has anyone else sent for the Keystone reprints being advertised by the Society? I sent a check on 1/20 and to date neither the check or the reprints have shown up. Thanks for any input. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Colman Gerald Subject: RE: [PRR] reprinted Keystones Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:01:51 -0500 Same for me. I sent a check in a couple months ago and haven't seen anything. Jerry Colman -----Original Message----- From: NDBPRR@aol.com [mailto:NDBPRR@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 2:53 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] reprinted Keystones Has anyone else sent for the Keystone reprints being advertised by the Society? I sent a check on 1/20 and to date neither the check or the reprints have shown up. Thanks for any input. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:19:41 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Santa Fe Reefer Traffic on the Pennsy Even without the reporting marks, SFRD reefers are distinctive. They have 5 foot doors as opposed to 4 foot on most other (including PFE) cars, and their reverse hinged hatches required the support bracket which poked up over each of the four hatches. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > > Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > > >PFE Reefers were received from SSW at E. St. Louis and CNW, MILW, etc. at > >Chicago off UP, while ATSF perishable traffic was either received off ATSF > >at Chicago or possibly off WAB at Logansport, IN. So, SFRD's and PFE's would > >not have appeared in the same trains over the Middle Division as East Coast > >perishables were blocked for Enola from the Western gateways. > > Interesting...I'm curious as to what types of reefers would have appeared > on the A&S (the Low Grade Line) between Enola and points East? In the > videos I have, it can often be difficult to identify the reporting marks, > and it seems clear that both individual cars and large blocks of cars were > forwarded east over this line. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: lilesj@squared.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:05:55 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Locomotives Used on Elmira Division Hi! Could anyone tell me, or point me to where the information is, what types of locomotives would have been used on the Elmira division (through and local) in the early to mid 50's? Thanks in advance for your time. Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Locomotives Used on Elmira Division Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:36:47 -0500 Jon:- >From a traffic point of view, the preponderant tonnage on the Elmira Division was coal destined to Sodus Point, NY, for lake movement to Canadian power plants on Lake Ontario, so hippos (I1s') would have been plentiful. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 3:05 PM Subject: [PRR] Locomotives Used on Elmira Division > > > Hi! > Could anyone tell me, or point me to where the information is, what types of > locomotives would have been used on the Elmira division (through and local) in > the early to mid 50's? Thanks in advance for your time. > Jon > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:09:57 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Locomotives Used on Elmira Division >> Hi! >> Could anyone tell me, or point me to where the information is, what types of >> locomotives would have been used on the Elmira division (through and >>local) in >> the early to mid 50's? Thanks in advance for your time. >> Jon Well, I refer you to my message "Crisis of Faith" of 2/8/99 in the archives where I said in part: What's so cool about the Elmira Branch? Lots! Lets say we model circa 1955. Wow, what a mix of power! PRR steam...B, C, K4, L, H, I, M (very late) PRR diesel...sharks (freight and passenger), PA, FA, F's, Baldwin Transfer, GP7 (including passenger versions with rooftop "torpedoes") NYC...Mowhawks, FA, etc... Through train (99.9% coal extras) power - predominantly I-1s (usually one up front, with one or two more on the back end). Also, pool trains from NYC with ABBA sets of Baldwin Sharks or FAs (with PRR I-1s pushing). M-1s also appear on head end, and occaisionally L-1s. PRR sharks, FAs and PAs all appeared on the head end for at least breif periods of time. Calaroso's book has excellent shots of an AA set of PAs working as helpers with an I-1. North of Southport, all local switching done by through (coal) trains. South of Southport the local usually had an L-1s (and a cabin car on each end). K-4s were the norm for the passenger trains although E-6s were also seen. Class B, C and H steamers were mainly used for work in and around the major yards. Sodus Point yard was often worked by an I-1 (although H class steamers were used there as well). Backdating to pre-WWII gets rid of the the diesels, the I-1s and the M-1s, and you can add more regular passenger service to the operations. The L-1 becomes the predominant power. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] reprinted Keystones Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:03:16 -0600 I sent for mine shortly after that issue of the Keystone came out. It took 6-8 weeks, but I did get them. I have also ordered some of the lettering arrangement drawings provided by the PRRT&HS. They also took about the same time. Yes, I'd like to get a quicker turnaround time. But remember the people processing your order are all volunteers. At least it seems your check doesn't get cashed until they ship your item. Andy -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of NDBPRR@aol.com Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 1:53 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] reprinted Keystones Has anyone else sent for the Keystone reprints being advertised by the Society? I sent a check on 1/20 and to date neither the check or the reprints have shown up. Thanks for any input. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:38:56 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Perishable traffic Guys, Remember traffic was regulated at the time and the rate from point "A" to point "B"was the same. Most business transactions were based on transite times and divisions paid to the shipper. The further you hailed the commodity the more revenue generated. This is how the Bridge Railroads survived, like the D&RGW, WP, and in the East The Reading and WM. So your ablity to compete to any market was based on the transite time. But, the shipper had the ablity to create the route, which caused havock for small lines like the Rutland as they didn't have representation in the west like the PRR and the NYC, ect. If the shipper had a load sold to a produce market in New York the carrier with the best representation in the origin market was likely to get the business. Many of these rep's have disappeared with deregulation and merger buyouts but the few that are left we call "glad-handers." The lack of Santa Fe cars could just be haphazard to the markets served. If you are looking for ! pictures of Oranges headed into New York you might need to look for Oranges from Florida and the PFE cars you are seeing might be lettuce from the Imperial Valley of Southern California where the ATSF didn't serve. The lack of Apples from Washington might be more the lack of need for Apples in the East as the East produces them. It's not all Black and White... Remeber Navels Oranges where primarialy a Southern California Citrus for years and fall harvest unlike Valencias which are a spring fruit. I just wish more published photos were dated not just by year but with the month, that would help. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:07:51 -0500 From: Dale Dembinski Subject: [PRR] Spring 2001 Keystone? Has anyone seen the Spring 2001 KEYSTONE magazine? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:26:59 -0500 From: Chris Brandt Subject: Re: [PRR] Spring 2001 Keystone? Just came today. Dale Dembinski wrote: > > Has anyone seen the Spring 2001 KEYSTONE magazine? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- Chris Brandt cobrandt@eclipse.net http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:25:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] PRR Decals Rob, Judd, Thanks for this info. I will order that CDS set. I am sure others on this list appreciated the info too. Yes, when I work with dry transfers I always transfer them to decal sheet.....Thanks again, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] Spring 2001 Keystone? Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:59:20 +1100 Dale, My copy has arrived at my fiances in Tulsa OK and here I am stuck in Melbourne and won't be able to see it for 5 weeks SOB!!! Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:07:09 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Spring 2001 Keystone? It arrived last nite. Fabulous article on the Yellow Kid(s). Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Dale Dembinski wrote: > > Has anyone seen the Spring 2001 KEYSTONE magazine? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:35:26 -0500 From: Jason Jaquith Subject: [PRR] Pennsy, Penn State & Pitt games Did the PRR and Bellefonte Central ever run specials between State College and Pittsburgh for Penn State-Pitt football games? If so, was it one train all the way so the students didn't have to transfer in Bellefonte? If it ever existed, what year did it end? Jason ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:57:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy, Penn State & Pitt games From: Jerry Britton On 3/20/01 12:35 PM, Jason Jaquith (jaj165@psu.edu) wrote: > Did the PRR and Bellefonte Central ever run specials between State College > and Pittsburgh for Penn State-Pitt football games? If so, was it one train > all the way so the students didn't have to transfer in Bellefonte? If it > ever existed, what year did it end? > YES!!! Up until the early 1960's there were Penn State/Pitt football specials into State College, Pa. I don't know anything other than that. I suspect is was only one train, and I don't know if it was specifically marketed to students or not. The train would have come up the PRR Bald Eagle Branch, onto the Bellefonte Branch, and then would continue/interchange onto the Bellefonte Central at Bellefonte. As you probably know, this railroad took the long way to State College, looping out through Scotia and actually entering town from the west. The Bellefonte Central station was on the site of the present day Engineering Building, across from the Old College Diner on College Avenue. Up until that time, football games were played adjacent to Rec Hall, just a few blocks from the station. The football stadium was then moved one mile to the east, to its present location. This move may have rendered the railroad option as inconvenient. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:03:14 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy, Penn State & Pitt games --- Jerry Britton wrote: > On 3/20/01 12:35 PM, Jason Jaquith (jaj165@psu.edu) > wrote: > > > Did the PRR and Bellefonte Central ever run > specials between State College > > and Pittsburgh... > The train would have come up the PRR Bald Eagle > Branch, onto the Bellefonte > Branch, and then would continue/interchange onto the > Bellefonte Central at > Bellefonte. As you probably know, this railroad took > the long way to State > College, looping out through Scotia and actually > entering town from the > west. Er, not quite. Yes, the BC went to Scotia; yes, it came into State College from the West; and yes, it did wander all over the place; BUT, going from Bellefonte to State College did not take one through Scotia. The BC came very close to 322 just west of the western end of the new 322 bypass. The track made a tight horseshoe curve, concave to the north, on the north side of 322. The branch to Scotia, when there was a branch to Scotia, came off the western side of that horseshoe and crossed 322 there. The main line of the BC crossed Atherton St/322 in the bottom of the dip just northwest of the campus, maybe 200 yards from the Nittany Lion Inn. The track made a wide half-circle out beyond the golf course, and came to the station on a track parallel to College Ave. > > The Bellefonte Central station was on the site of > the present day > Engineering Building, across from the Old College > Diner on College Avenue. There used to be a grade crossing on Atherton to get coal to the power plant at the end of Hammond Bldg. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:29:04 -0800 Subject: [PRR] B60b vent configurations Hi list members, I'm somewhat interested in finding out a bit of statistical info on the B60b car class - specifically the proportions involved for the various types of roof-mounted vents on these cars. I originally sent the message below to a friend of mine as a private communication, but I'm posting it here both in the interest of sharing the results of my own research, and also to open the topic here for public discussion. See my original text below - commentary is invited. I'm guessing that some of you with substantial fleets of these cars in HO scale may have grappled with this same issue before, so if someone cares to share their thoughts on the topic, I'm all ears. Note I refer to one style of vents as"Harriman-style". I'm sure the PRR design was not in any real way connected to the Harriman roads, but I don't know a better name for them! They do strongly resemble those found on UP/SP equipment of the same era. Again, commentary is invited. - Claus ---- I did a survey of the video "Middle Division". As we discussed, this video shows a preponderance of mail/express trains, all with lots of B60b cars in them, making it a very fertile ground for this type of analysis. I watched the whole video, counting all the B60b cars and categorizing them into one of the following three categories: No Vents: 25 cars Harriman-style vents: 13 cars Globe-style vents: 1 car This totals out to 39 cars, which (IMHO) is sufficiently large to qualify as a statistically significant sampling. Remember most of these shots were taken in the early 50's. Still, the results should be reasonably applicable for prior years as well. So overall fleet results might have look approximately like this: No Vents: 64% (25 cars out of 39) Harriman-style vents: 33% (13 cars out of 39) Globe-style vents: 3% (1 car out of 39) While I wouldn't risk making too many far-reaching statements based on these results, I think it confirms what we suspected already. * The no-vent variant was the most common. * The Harriman-style vents formed a significant minority of cars. * The globe vent cars were nearly extinct by this time, and formed only an insignificant minority of cars. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:39:29 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] B60b vent configurations Claus, The "no vent" cars were the standard B60b used for baggage or for sealed mail storage. In fact mail storage was probable the most common use, and best source of revenue. The "Harriman vent" cars were refereed to as Messenger Cars. They were designed to accommodate an attendant enroute. As a result they had a desk, a safe, a water cooler, a "hopper", and ventilation! They were identified on the outside by a gold star on the centerline of the car above the beltrail. I have no idea what the one Globe vent car was. My best guess is that it was an original Walthers metal sided car ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Claus Schlund wrote: > > Hi list members, > > I'm somewhat interested in finding out a bit of statistical > info on the B60b car class - specifically the proportions involved for > the various types of roof-mounted vents on these cars. > > I originally sent the message below to a friend of mine > as a private communication, but I'm posting it here both in the > interest of sharing the results of my own research, and also > to open the topic here for public discussion. See my original text > below - commentary is invited. I'm guessing that some of you with > substantial fleets of these cars in HO scale may have grappled > with this same issue before, so if someone cares to share their > thoughts on the topic, I'm all ears. > > Note I refer to one style of vents as"Harriman-style". I'm > sure the PRR design was not in any real way connected to the Harriman > roads, but I don't know a better name for them! They do strongly > resemble those found on UP/SP equipment of the same era. > > Again, commentary is invited. > > - Claus > > ---- > > I did a survey of the video "Middle Division". As we discussed, > this video shows a preponderance of mail/express trains, all > with lots of B60b cars in them, making it a very fertile ground > for this type of analysis. > > I watched the whole video, counting all the B60b cars > and categorizing them into one of the following > three categories: > > No Vents: 25 cars > Harriman-style vents: 13 cars > Globe-style vents: 1 car > > This totals out to 39 cars, which (IMHO) is sufficiently > large to qualify as a statistically significant sampling. > Remember most of these shots were taken in the early 50's. > Still, the results should be reasonably applicable for > prior years as well. > > So overall fleet results might have look approximately like this: > > No Vents: 64% (25 cars out of 39) > Harriman-style vents: 33% (13 cars out of 39) > Globe-style vents: 3% (1 car out of 39) > > While I wouldn't risk making too many far-reaching statements based > on these results, I think it confirms what we suspected already. > * The no-vent variant was the most common. > * The Harriman-style vents formed a significant minority of cars. > * The globe vent cars were nearly extinct by this time, and formed > only an insignificant minority of cars. > > - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:36:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Keystone Article-Yellow Kid Lists, Got my latest Keystone issue yesterday. The main article was for the turn of the century "Yellow Kid" (Pennsylvania Limited). Boy that brought back memories! No I didn't see the train in person! I am speaking of the Westerfield resin type kits that were produced in the early 1990's and I guess sold out now days. According to the foot note in the Keystone article, Al Westerfield may be inclined to re-release these kits if enough intrest is there. If you are a kit builder I suggest making contact with Al and talking him into this. With the article back into circulation enough intrest may be there. The kits were not "shake the box" type. These are indeed craftsman kits. But with care and paitience, (and new trucks), the kits do represent the Yellow Kid well. In the original Kit Box was included the same article (in booklet form) that is found in the newest issue of the Keystone. I also recieved a frameable Yellow Kid print. Very nice touch. I think the original cost of the kits was $350.00? Here are photos of my finished models with Central Valley Trucks for better tracking. Baggage/Smoker/Library Car: CLAUDIUS http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/yk1.jpg Diner Car: VALENTIN http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/yk2.jpg 12 Section, Drawing Room: ORLEANS http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/yyk3.jpg 12 Section, Drawing Room, Stateroom: GLADIOLUS http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/yk4.jpg 12 Section, Drawing Room, Stateroom: MARIGOLD http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/yk5.jpg Observation: VERITAS http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/yk6.jpg When I do run these, which is very seldom, I use a Key Imports E7s 4-4-2. That is the oldest represented Loco I have. No D16a Locos made so you gotta use something. Looks impressive. Now get your kits out and start building. I hope my pics gets you in the mood to start yours......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:57:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Article-Yellow Kid List, Here is the Loco I use to pull the Yellow Kid. This is a Key Imports E7s 4-4-2. Not seen in this photo is the back-dating I did. I removed the electric headlight and replaced it with a PRR Style Oil Burning Headlight. Really changes its appearence. E7s: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/yk1.jpg By the way, photos #2, 3 and I think 4 of my Yellow Kid cars do not match the car caption. They are out of sequence. I believe the Diner is #3, not 2. Car 2 and 4 should reversed? Or something like that...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:01:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] Keystone Article-Yellow Kid Lists, Whoops! Here is the E7s 4-4-2: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/keye7.jpg .....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:24:14 EST From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Keystone reprints I received an e mail regarding the reprints. It seems one issue was missing from the reprinting and is expected soon. They will be sent shortly. I assume that all checks are being held until shipment which is a nice gesture. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:27:13 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] B60b vent configurations In a message dated 3/21/01 7:51:07 AM Central Standard Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << I have no idea what the one Globe vent car was. My best guess is that it was an original Walthers metal sided car ;-) >> You mean one with a fishbelly rather than a straight-channel underframe? :-) Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:31:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone reprints From: Jerry Britton On 3/21/01 11:24 AM, NDBPRR@aol.com (NDBPRR@aol.com) wrote: > I received an e mail regarding the reprints. It seems one issue was missing > from the reprinting and is expected soon. They will be sent shortly. I > assume that all checks are being held until shipment which is a nice gesture. > Does anyone know, are these true "reprints" (nice paper, photo quality, saddle-stitched) or are they merely photocopies that are bound nicely? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:02:19 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone reprints >On 3/21/01 11:24 AM, NDBPRR@aol.com (NDBPRR@aol.com) wrote: > >> I received an e mail regarding the reprints. It seems one issue was missing >> from the reprinting and is expected soon. They will be sent shortly. I >> assume that all checks are being held until shipment which is a nice >>gesture. >> >Does anyone know, are these true "reprints" (nice paper, photo quality, >saddle-stitched) or are they merely photocopies that are bound nicely? "High quality photocopies" I picked up volume 6 when they first started the program, and these are good quality photocopies with a stapled binding. You should realize that the Keystone from this era wasn't quite the glitzy high class mag we have now , but IMHO the "reprints" are well worth the $$$ (my check is in the mail for vols 7, 78 & 9). Here's hoping Vol 10 comes along soon! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 06:31:11 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 30/31 "Spirit of St. Louis" From: Jerry Britton One of my first "full train" models will be #30/31, "The Spirit of St. Louis", circa 1954. I have the full makeup of the train, short of the motive power. I checked "Pennsy Streamliners" for a reference, but there are none of the 1952-1957 range, which I would consider acceptable. Anyone have any photos from the 1950's of this train that shows the power? BP60's and BP20's would NOT have been used, as they would already have been moved to helper/mail service. Pretty much leaves PA's, E7's, E8's as most-likely choices. By the way, the consist of the eastbound #30 is: Mail Storage.....Dayton to New York (MS60 OR B60) (News Week) Baggage Mail.....St. Louis to New York (BM70M) (Letter End West) Mail Storage.....St. Louis to New York (MS60) (X) Baggage Lounge Bar.....St. Louis to New York (PLB85R) Coaches.....St. Louis to New York (reclining seats) (P85BR) (Two cars) Dining Car.....St. Louis to New York (D85C) Dining Car.....St. Louis to New York (D85D) Sleeping Car.....St. Louis to New York (PS442) "Imperial Hills", "Imperial Bench" OR "Imperial Vale" Sleeping Car.....St. Louis to New York (PS106) "Conemaugh Rapids", "Conewago Rapids" OR "Catawissa Rapids" Sleeping Car.....St. Louis to New York (PS124) "Chatham Creek", "Crystal Creek" OR "Clear Creek" Observation Car.....St. Louis to New York (POS211) "Alex. J. Cassatt", "James McCrea" OR "Frank Thomson" Sleeping Car.....St. Louis to Washington (PS106) Harrisburg: Move to 530. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:52:21 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] 30/31 "Spirit of St. Louis" In a message dated 3/22/01 5:44:22 AM Central Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Anyone have any photos from the 1950's of this train that shows the power? >> July 51 shot in PRR Color Pictorial Vol 2 shows EP22 AA, no headend traffic (weekend?). Too late for your time period, but Oct 1965 shows EP22A-EP20B-EP20A, with lots of headend traffic. Train not identified, but another Oct 56 shot at St. Louis shows EP22 AA again. Interesting feature of this train is the first car is one of those Sante Fe double door express boxcars. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:42:37 -0600 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] 30/31 "Spirit of St. Louis" Jerry: You can't go wrong with EP20s and EP22s. Larry Jerry Britton wrote: > One of my first "full train" models will be #30/31, "The Spirit of St. > Louis", circa 1954. > > I have the full makeup of the train, short of the motive power. I checked > "Pennsy Streamliners" for a reference, but there are none of the 1952-1957 > range, which I would consider acceptable. > > Anyone have any photos from the 1950's of this train that shows the power? > > BP60's and BP20's would NOT have been used, as they would already have been > moved to helper/mail service. Pretty much leaves PA's, E7's, E8's as > most-likely choices. > > By the way, the consist of the eastbound #30 is: > > Mail Storage.....Dayton to New York (MS60 OR B60) (News Week) > Baggage Mail.....St. Louis to New York (BM70M) (Letter End West) > Mail Storage.....St. Louis to New York (MS60) (X) > Baggage Lounge Bar.....St. Louis to New York (PLB85R) > Coaches.....St. Louis to New York (reclining seats) (P85BR) (Two cars) > Dining Car.....St. Louis to New York (D85C) > Dining Car.....St. Louis to New York (D85D) > Sleeping Car.....St. Louis to New York (PS442) "Imperial Hills", > "Imperial Bench" OR "Imperial Vale" > Sleeping Car.....St. Louis to New York (PS106) "Conemaugh Rapids", > "Conewago Rapids" OR "Catawissa Rapids" > Sleeping Car.....St. Louis to New York (PS124) "Chatham Creek", > "Crystal Creek" OR "Clear Creek" > Observation Car.....St. Louis to New York (POS211) "Alex. J. Cassatt", > "James McCrea" OR "Frank Thomson" > Sleeping Car.....St. Louis to Washington (PS106) > Harrisburg: Move to 530. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:26:40 EST From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] 30/31 Spirit The SPirit of St. Louis may also have had PA's during that period. I don't have any back up evidence but recall having read that being one of the runs they were used on at least initially. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:14:01 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Another matter of spelling Several times over the past couple or three years folks have commented on "Pittsburgh" vs. "Pittsburg". Folks generally are aware that in the first decade or so of the 1900's there was no "h" in Pittsburg. That is reflected in the names of some railroads incorporated while the "no h" spelling was in effect, such as the PCC&StL and the Pittsburg and Shawmut. There is a web site at: http://www.hti.umich.edu/m/moa.new/ which has digitized copies of numerous old books and magazines. Among those are two "List of Post Offices in the United States" one published in 1851, the other in 1870. (Curiously, the bibliographic entries for both say 1859.) In both, one finds not only Pittsburgh but Leechburgh, Hollidaysburgh, Harrisburgh, Greensburgh, and so on. No, I'm not playing word games with the names of obscure places in Iowa or Vermont or some such. All the -burg names are -burgh in both those books. Also, the 1851 book mentions "Susquehannah", a county in Pennsylvania, but doesn't do so uniformly. I wonder, do PRR documents from the pre-1900 era use those spellings, or was the Post Office Department out of tune with popular usage? As always, inquiring minds want to know. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:44:52 -0800 Subject: [PRR] B60b vent configurations Hi Andy, Thanks for the information, altho for my part this is all info I knew already. What I'm trying to get at is the relative proportions for the different B60b variants, in order to assemble a representative fleet of them for my layout. BTW, the globe vent cars were messenger-equipped cars. Globe vents were used on the early-production B60b cars - these vents show up in several B60b builders photos I have seen. I'm somewhat surprised, but at least one car with globe vents lasted quite late - while I don't know the exact date when the footage in the video was taken, it was late enuf to be caught on color amateur movie film! - Claus > The "no vent" cars were the standard B60b used for baggage or for sealed > mail storage. In fact mail storage was probable the most common use, > and best source of revenue. The "Harriman vent" cars were refereed to > as Messenger Cars. They were designed to accommodate an attendant > enroute. As a result they had a desk, a safe, a water cooler, a > "hopper", and ventilation! They were identified on the outside by a > gold star on the centerline of the car above the beltrail. > > I have no idea what the one Globe vent car was. My best guess is that > it was an original Walthers metal sided car ;-) > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > =================================================== > Claus Schlund wrote: > > > > Hi list members, > > > > I'm somewhat interested in finding out a bit of statistical > > info on the B60b car class - specifically the proportions involved for > > the various types of roof-mounted vents on these cars. > > > > I originally sent the message below to a friend of mine > > as a private communication, but I'm posting it here both in the > > interest of sharing the results of my own research, and also > > to open the topic here for public discussion. See my original text > > below - commentary is invited. I'm guessing that some of you with > > substantial fleets of these cars in HO scale may have grappled > > with this same issue before, so if someone cares to share their > > thoughts on the topic, I'm all ears. > > > > Note I refer to one style of vents as"Harriman-style". I'm > > sure the PRR design was not in any real way connected to the Harriman > > roads, but I don't know a better name for them! They do strongly > > resemble those found on UP/SP equipment of the same era. > > > > Again, commentary is invited. > > > > - Claus > > > > ---- > > > > I did a survey of the video "Middle Division". As we discussed, > > this video shows a preponderance of mail/express trains, all > > with lots of B60b cars in them, making it a very fertile ground > > for this type of analysis. > > > > I watched the whole video, counting all the B60b cars > > and categorizing them into one of the following > > three categories: > > > > No Vents: 25 cars > > Harriman-style vents: 13 cars > > Globe-style vents: 1 car > > > > This totals out to 39 cars, which (IMHO) is sufficiently > > large to qualify as a statistically significant sampling. > > Remember most of these shots were taken in the early 50's. > > Still, the results should be reasonably applicable for > > prior years as well. > > > > So overall fleet results might have look approximately like this: > > > > No Vents: 64% (25 cars out of 39) > > Harriman-style vents: 33% (13 cars out of 39) > > Globe-style vents: 3% (1 car out of 39) > > > > While I wouldn't risk making too many far-reaching statements based > > on these results, I think it confirms what we suspected already. > > * The no-vent variant was the most common. > > * The Harriman-style vents formed a significant minority of cars. > > * The globe vent cars were nearly extinct by this time, and formed > > only an insignificant minority of cars. > > > > - Claus > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:33:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] B60b vent configurations In a message dated 3/22/01 8:55:19 PM Central Standard Time, schlund@cwnet.com writes: << it was late enuf to be caught on color amateur movie film! >> Just so you know, the earliest color movies I have seen of PRR trains is from 1938, so don't jump to any conclusions :-). And we had this discussion on another list about color photographs (not movies) from the ill-fated Shackleton South Pole expedition dating from 1915 or so. Excellent photos BTW; saw them at the Field Museum in Chicago. Bob Zoeller Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] P85BR Interiors Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:20:55 -0500 Fellow PRR-Listers: Would anyone on the list have ideas on what was the typical color scheme on the P85BR interiors? I would imagine that there were a few different color combinations. Primarily, I would be interested in the wall, floor, and seat colors. Thank you in advance for any information or advice that you can provide. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana (Modelling a P85 by means of Union Station Products sides, ECW core, and modified IHC coach interior) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Locomotives Used on Elmira Division Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:12:02 -0500 Black Gold, Black Diamonds has charts showing locomotive assignments by division. Volume 1 has a chart for 1945; volume 2 has a chart for 1949. Unfortunately the Elmira Branch is not listed, the closest is Williamsport, but Williamsport should be pretty similar. That and Bill Coloroso's book should clear up the mystery nicely. Good luck. And let us know what you find out. Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 3:05 PM Subject: [PRR] Locomotives Used on Elmira Division > > > Hi! > Could anyone tell me, or point me to where the information is, what types of > locomotives would have been used on the Elmira division (through and local) in > the early to mid 50's? Thanks in advance for your time. > Jon > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Auction Tonight Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:11:28 -0500 Listens, I believe that tonight is the train auction at the New Oxford Fire House. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:34:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] P85BR Interiors From: "Doug and Marianne" Ted: > Would anyone on the list have ideas on what was the typical color scheme on > the P85BR interiors? I would imagine that there were a few different color > combinations. Primarily, I would be interested in the wall, floor, and seat > colors. In 1947 the PRR had several color magazine advertisements that included detailed color illustrations of the P85 interiors. There were probably at least two color schemes, one in red and another in blue. The interior walls and ceiling appear to be light gray. The window shades look like light tan. The seats had chrome or metal sides, black arm rests and red or blue fabric with white headrests. The floors appear to be dark gray linoleum with a red or blue stripe down the center of the floor to match the seat fabric color. The colored center stripe had a thin white strip on each side. The end bulkheads (both ends) had floor to ceiling mirrors which gave the illustion of a continuous interior (on to infinity). I hope this helps. Doug Nelson Mill Valley, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:02:20 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] P85BR Interiors In a message dated 3/23/01 7:33:34 AM Central Standard Time, Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com writes: << Would anyone on the list have ideas on what was the typical color scheme on the P85BR interiors? >> If you can't find out the P85BR-specific information, you may get some clues from the Winter 91 Keystone, P. 14, interior information on P70, P70GSR, Silverliners, MP54's. The rebuild and silverliner material may give a clue. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:45:25 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Mae West in folklore + PRR N6A/B cabin car rebuilds In a message dated 3/22/01 4:36:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rooster232 writes: << Hello, Rick and Tom V., I have been trying to find out what a "Mae West" was and came across your e-mail postings from a while back. You wrote: << Incidentally, the Green Frog PRR tape narration, among other sources, referring to the "Mae West" cupola or cabin car. Green Frog then shows an N6b caboose. Can we nail down from some reliable Lines West sources what a "Mae West" really was? << Of course, Mae West was an early movie star with impressive upper works. You can see W.C.Fields leering at them in "My Little Chickadee." I've always assumed a Mae West cabin referred to the N6a, with its large cupola actually a little wider than the rest of the carbody and a full-width, much flatter cupola roof. Rick Tipton >> My question arises from the use of the term "Mae West" in a blues song, "Hobo Jungle Blues," by Sleepy John Estes, who used to hobo around the country. The verse is: "Now when I left Chicago, I left on that G&M Then if I reach my home, I'll have to change over on that L&N Now, I came in on here in that Mae West, and I put it down at Chicago Heights But I eased over in hobo jungle, that's where I stayed all night." I thought Mae West might have been a train, but it makes sense from your discussion that it could have been a cabin car. A hobo could ride on the roof perhaps, or wherever, I don't know. If you can help me figure this out I'd appreciate it. John Estes is a blues singer who is featured in a book I'm editing. Thank you-- Sincerely, Jim O'Neal BluEsoterica Productions & Archives 3516 Holmes St. Kansas City, MO 64109 (816) 931-0383 >> Jim, Sadly, this is one of those folklore things that only the railroaders themselves really knew, with sexy overtones to help it not get written down. As you can see, we've struggled with this issue in the past - starting with the fact that people do exist who insist on identifying the N6a and N6b backwards. For what little I'm SURE of, see the N6 entry on Rob Schoenberg's website -- I wrote it for him. As to nailing down Mae West -- the issue is far from clear. The N6A cupola is ridiculously wide. OTOH, the N6B's cupola is ridiculously tall and round. It's possible that either, being an extreme among cabooses/cabin cars of its day, were named for Mae West, the extreme sex star of the early cinema. Let's let this out to some of our email friends, and see if we generate anything but folkloric answers and opinions. Some of the folks on these lists actually worked for the railroad, and might know. BTW -- an hypothesis for the group: I assume that the Lines West wide and Lines West narrow cupolas existed on all-wood PRR cabin cars before the N6 rebuilding (1914 and later), and are just the two cupola designs that were adopted by Lines Northeast and Lines Southeast for N6A and N6B rebuilds. Can we cite photos that show these two cupolas on earlier car classes. Second hypothesis -- Some say that because the N6A/B rebuild program was done at so very many locations, there's "no such thing as one blueprint" for either of the cars. But others say that, since the rebuilds were essentially stretching of existing classes on top of a single design of steel frame, there should be a finite number of blueprintable designs, representing the combinations of: 1. Class used in the rebuilding (NC, ND, N4, etc.). This should show in window placement. 2. Whether the old body was placed on the end of the frame, resulting in an end cupola, or centered, resulting in a center cupola. 3. Which cupola was retained/applied, resulting in N6A or N6B. I believe Tom Vondruska might be able to answer this one -- he's been digging into the origins of the N6 program. Third hypothesis -- Since almost all N6A were converted to N6B or scrapped before WWII, evidences of N6A east of Pittsburgh must be scarce. True or false? Fourth hypothesis -- When some N6B's, an exotic design to Lines East, were reassigned to local service east of Pittsburgh, this event must have been notable enough for railfans to shoot pictures of them. I believe this was well after the 1955 cabin car assignments that I've seen on one of the Pennsy websites. Thus: 1. how early does this photo evidence start? 2. can the folks who receive this message cite published photos of N6B on Lines East? List the book or magazine, and the photo date and location if possible, and email this info to me. I'll accumulate any citations sent in, add any such photos I've indexed, and put the resulting list back up in a few day (after I see my tax accountant). Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Modeling the Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/D5QVlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:45:25 EST Subject: [PRR] Mae West in folklore + PRR N6A/B cabin car rebuilds In a message dated 3/22/01 4:36:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rooster232 writes: << Hello, Rick and Tom V., I have been trying to find out what a "Mae West" was and came across your e-mail postings from a while back. You wrote: << Incidentally, the Green Frog PRR tape narration, among other sources, referring to the "Mae West" cupola or cabin car. Green Frog then shows an N6b caboose. Can we nail down from some reliable Lines West sources what a "Mae West" really was? << Of course, Mae West was an early movie star with impressive upper works. You can see W.C.Fields leering at them in "My Little Chickadee." I've always assumed a Mae West cabin referred to the N6a, with its large cupola actually a little wider than the rest of the carbody and a full-width, much flatter cupola roof. Rick Tipton >> My question arises from the use of the term "Mae West" in a blues song, "Hobo Jungle Blues," by Sleepy John Estes, who used to hobo around the country. The verse is: "Now when I left Chicago, I left on that G&M Then if I reach my home, I'll have to change over on that L&N Now, I came in on here in that Mae West, and I put it down at Chicago Heights But I eased over in hobo jungle, that's where I stayed all night." I thought Mae West might have been a train, but it makes sense from your discussion that it could have been a cabin car. A hobo could ride on the roof perhaps, or wherever, I don't know. If you can help me figure this out I'd appreciate it. John Estes is a blues singer who is featured in a book I'm editing. Thank you-- Sincerely, Jim O'Neal BluEsoterica Productions & Archives 3516 Holmes St. Kansas City, MO 64109 (816) 931-0383 >> Jim, Sadly, this is one of those folklore things that only the railroaders themselves really knew, with sexy overtones to help it not get written down. As you can see, we've struggled with this issue in the past - starting with the fact that people do exist who insist on identifying the N6a and N6b backwards. For what little I'm SURE of, see the N6 entry on Rob Schoenberg's website -- I wrote it for him. As to nailing down Mae West -- the issue is far from clear. The N6A cupola is ridiculously wide. OTOH, the N6B's cupola is ridiculously tall and round. It's possible that either, being an extreme among cabooses/cabin cars of its day, were named for Mae West, the extreme sex star of the early cinema. Let's let this out to some of our email friends, and see if we generate anything but folkloric answers and opinions. Some of the folks on these lists actually worked for the railroad, and might know. BTW -- an hypothesis for the group: I assume that the Lines West wide and Lines West narrow cupolas existed on all-wood PRR cabin cars before the N6 rebuilding (1914 and later), and are just the two cupola designs that were adopted by Lines Northeast and Lines Southeast for N6A and N6B rebuilds. Can we cite photos that show these two cupolas on earlier car classes. Second hypothesis -- Some say that because the N6A/B rebuild program was done at so very many locations, there's "no such thing as one blueprint" for either of the cars. But others say that, since the rebuilds were essentially stretching of existing classes on top of a single design of steel frame, there should be a finite number of blueprintable designs, representing the combinations of: 1. Class used in the rebuilding (NC, ND, N4, etc.). This should show in window placement. 2. Whether the old body was placed on the end of the frame, resulting in an end cupola, or centered, resulting in a center cupola. 3. Which cupola was retained/applied, resulting in N6A or N6B. I believe Tom Vondruska might be able to answer this one -- he's been digging into the origins of the N6 program. Third hypothesis -- Since almost all N6A were converted to N6B or scrapped before WWII, evidences of N6A east of Pittsburgh must be scarce. True or false? Fourth hypothesis -- When some N6B's, an exotic design to Lines East, were reassigned to local service east of Pittsburgh, this event must have been notable enough for railfans to shoot pictures of them. I believe this was well after the 1955 cabin car assignments that I've seen on one of the Pennsy websites. Thus: 1. how early does this photo evidence start? 2. can the folks who receive this message cite published photos of N6B on Lines East? List the book or magazine, and the photo date and location if possible, and email this info to me. I'll accumulate any citations sent in, add any such photos I've indexed, and put the resulting list back up in a few day (after I see my tax accountant). Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Modeling the Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 04:38:57 EST Subject: [PRR] Just received my.... Hey Yuze Gize, I just received my advance copy of the April issue of Mainline Modeler and my good friend Mike Bradley has an excellent article on the PRR H-30 and H-30a covered hopper in the issue. Now I have to admit that that I knew it was coming and I knew that Mike was a great photographer (great color shots Mike) and his work has been published before by others in support of their articles, but to my knowledge this is the first piece that I believe he has had published under his own byline. The article covers the H-30 and H-30a from PRR paint to Conrail paint and one shot puts this covered hopper into perspective against the much larger newer covered hoppers. This is a must have issue for the PRR-PC-CR fans out their. Bob Hundman did some excellent drawings of the car in last months issue focusing on the NW car as it compared to the PRR car. Now if I can only get the car in plastic I would buy a half dozen just to put in my PRR fleet. I think we need this distinctive car produced in HO Scale, what would you say? Wouldn't it be nice to have a few of these mixed with some Atlas PS-2 Two-bay hoppers? MIKE Excellent cover and thank you for preserving the PRR in photo for the rest of us to reflect on... Mike You DA MAN!!! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 18:22:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Mae West in folklore + PRR N6A/B cabin car rebuilds My impression was always that it referred to the N6A. As an aside for the young, the aviator's WWII lifevest was also named after the well-endowed actress. Sadly, there would be noone to name such a caboose after from among today's anorexic refugee actresses :-). Actually Mae West was a big woman all over, but a great comedic actress. Bob (way offtopic and ducking for cover) Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:58:20 -0500 Subject: [PRR] East Coast Hobby Show From: Jerry Britton Did anyone attend the East Coast Hobby Show in Fort Washington, Pa., this past weekend? (Actually, it's still open for dealers today.) If so, any announcements worth mentioning? I had planned to attend, but I've been rehabbing two herniated disks in my lower back and I've been behind on things and decided I had to forgo the show this year, especially with the PRRT&HS Convention coming up in a few weeks. Gotta be as close to 100% as possible for that one!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:49:33 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Re: [CYBER] MP54 paint color >What color are the passenger steps painted on the MP54 cars? > >Thanks in advance, > >Lew Matt Lew, I believe that the MP54 followed the standard passenger car painting diagrams and the steps were therefore black. I will try to remember to double check this on some color photos in the reference books this evening! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:17:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: MP54 paint color Bruce, If you say that the MP-54's follow the standard paint scheme then the steps would be Tusacn Red with Black tread. Color photos of cars in service will probably show road grime but underneath that I beleive you will find Tuscan. Need to find nice clean car to see this. Depending on era, regular Passenger Car steps could be seen either Olive or Tuscan, (Stainless? on Betterment Cars). Not sure how MP Units were painted over the years. Very well could be the same as the normal everyday Passenger Car fleet....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:39:28 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Just received my.... Greg, Funero & Camerlengo used to make a model of that car. I own one. They persist in claiming that they are reworking it and will re-introduce it shortly. Of course Sharon first told me this over three years ago! However, on the bright side, they are reworking a lot of their older kits and many have been resurrected. So perhaps the H30 will be reborn. Maybe this article will inspire them. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > > Hey Yuze Gize, > > I just received my advance copy of the April issue of Mainline Modeler and my > good friend Mike Bradley has an excellent article on the PRR H-30 and H-30a > covered hopper in the issue. Now I have to admit that that I knew it was > coming and I knew that Mike was a great photographer (great color shots Mike) > and his work has been published before by others in support of their > articles, but to my knowledge this is the first piece that I believe he has > had published under his own byline. The article covers the H-30 and H-30a > from PRR paint to Conrail paint and one shot puts this covered hopper into > perspective against the much larger newer covered hoppers. This is a must > have issue for the PRR-PC-CR fans out their. Bob Hundman did some excellent > drawings of the car in last months issue focusing on the NW car as it > compared to the PRR car. Now if I can only get the car in plastic I would > buy a half dozen just to put in my PRR fleet. I think we need this > distinctive car produced in HO Scale, what would you say? Wouldn't it be > nice to have a few of these mixed with some Atlas PS-2 Two-bay hoppers? > > MIKE Excellent cover and thank you for preserving the PRR in photo for the > rest of us to reflect on... Mike You DA MAN!!! > > Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Staging, Moles, and Yards Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:19:23 -0500 On the subject of staging, moles, and yards, I am taking a bit different approach than others. I have a small basement with only 13.5' x 18' for a layout, so I'm building a 3 level layout. I won't have room for hidden staging or any kind of staging yards, and I really don't like hidden track. I will have a big yard, Renovo Yard, on the center deck. Bottom deck will be Williamsport with Newberrry Yard and the small Walnut Street local yard. Top deck will be Emporium with a mid-sized yard. I will have reversing loops at each end of the railroad to permit continuous running for guests and my own pleasure. I make up trains in the yards on the layout to switch lists my computer generates. Trains then get their power added, and go out over the railroad. I don't worry about trains going somewhere off the layout. When a train enters a yard, the yard engine breaks it down, then continues to make up the next train due out. Through freights stop, the power uncouples and goes to the engine terminall for service. Yard engines cut out the stock cars and take them to the exercise pens, and cut out the reefers and take them to the icing platform. When these chores are finished, the switchers add the reefers and stock cars back on, the power couples on, and the train is off. This is perhaps an unusual approach, but I like the operating scheme and it works for me. My operators, when I can find any, seem fine with it. I mostly operate alone, so I run trains sequentially. I don't use schedules or fast clocks (or any kind of clock) as I had more than enough of that when I was working before I retired. Just one railroader's approach, but it works for me. It may not work for anyone else, but that's fine. We have to march to our own drummers! Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:39:03 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [CYBER] MP54 paint color Every color photo have shows the steps as black or too dirty to tell. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:01:11 +0000 From: knmeyer Subject: Re: [PRR] Staging, Moles, and Yards Here's a thought: Place some sort of divider, scenery block, whatever, to disguise the entrance to the reverse loops. Add an additional track or two to the existing loop and you have a multi-track, staging loop. These staging tracks could represent points west of Emporium (Buffalo, Erie--top loop) and points east of Williamsport (Enola, Baltimore--lower loop). Ken Meyer Bill Bigler wrote: > > On the subject of staging, moles, and yards, I am taking a bit different > approach than others. I have a small basement with only 13.5' x 18' for a > layout, so I'm building a 3 level layout. I won't have room for hidden > staging or any kind of staging yards, and I really don't like hidden track. > > I will have a big yard, Renovo Yard, on the center deck. Bottom deck will > be Williamsport with Newberrry Yard and the small Walnut Street local yard. > > Top deck will be Emporium with a mid-sized yard. I will have reversing > loops at each end of the railroad to permit continuous running for guests > and my own pleasure. > > I make up trains in the yards on the layout to switch lists my computer > generates. Trains then get their power added, and go out over the railroad. > I don't worry about trains going somewhere off the layout. When a train > enters a yard, the yard engine breaks it down, then continues to make up the > next train due out. Through freights stop, the power uncouples and goes to > the engine terminall for service. Yard engines cut out the stock cars and > take them to the exercise pens, and cut out the reefers and take them to the > icing platform. When these chores are finished, the switchers add the > reefers and stock cars back on, the power couples on, and the train is off. > > This is perhaps an unusual approach, but I like the operating scheme and it > works for me. My operators, when I can find any, seem fine with it. I > mostly operate alone, so I run trains sequentially. I don't use schedules > or fast clocks (or any kind of clock) as I had more than enough of that when > I was working before I retired. > > Just one railroader's approach, but it works for me. It may not work for > anyone else, but that's fine. We have to march to our own drummers! > > Bill Bigler > Big Flats NY > Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & > downtown Williamsport WWII > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 06:28:15 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BYOB Breakfast Get-Together at Convention From: Jerry Britton Attending the PRRT&HS Convention in May? The members of the Cyber Division and subscribers of PRR-Talk would like to invite ALL to attend an "I Love the Smell of Diesel Fumes in the Morning" Bring Your Own Breakfast get-together at the concrete bridge (replaced the old iron bridge) over the west throat of the Enola Yards. This event will be held on Saturday, May 5, from 7:00 a.m. - 8:30 a.m. in an "open house" format, so come and stay as long (or short) as you like. (The first convention event of the day is the business meeting at 9:00 a.m.) Watch the action while meeting online friends and sharing stories. There is a Dunkin Donuts, McDonald's, and Wendy's on the way from the hotel. For directions, see the updated convention schedule at http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [CYBER] MP54 paint color Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:35:30 +0100 Lew, The steps are Tuscan red with black treads. see the MP54 scans on the PRR Pictures part of my FreeUK website. Regards, John H. Wright Washington, England PRR in the 1940s (plus B & O and NYC) Web sites at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ and http://www.xclent.clara.net > >What color are the passenger steps painted on the MP54 cars? > > > >Thanks in advance, > > > >Lew Matt > > Lew, ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:43:26 -0500 Guys A few years bcak I bought the above kit. Now I am getting around to constructing it. What is the class? Are there online blueprints available? A pic appears on page 41 (middle photo) of PRR Color Guide to Frt & Pass Equip (Sweetland & Yanosey). Reason for these questions, by following the kits directions comes out at 9' 10" wide plus the vacuum formed well leaves much to be desired (probably build a new one from styrene) Thus I need to see a working drawing or blueprint. Thanks for any help. Walt P. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Conan Evans" Subject: RE: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:58:30 -0500 Who manufactured the kit? Is it still available? -Conan Evans -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Walt Prusick Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 3:43 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" Guys A few years bcak I bought the above kit. Now I am getting around to constructing it. What is the class? Are there online blueprints available? A pic appears on page 41 (middle photo) of PRR Color Guide to Frt & Pass Equip (Sweetland & Yanosey). Reason for these questions, by following the kits directions comes out at 9' 10" wide plus the vacuum formed well leaves much to be desired (probably build a new one from styrene) Thus I need to see a working drawing or blueprint. Thanks for any help. Walt P. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:28:36 -0500 The Red Ball Car is an F25. I'm not sure how closely the kit matches the prototype though since I can't find mine to compare... I have a photo and diagrams on my site at: http://PRR.Railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=F25 The diagram shows the car to be 10' 2" wide... Hope this helps! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Walt > Prusick > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 3:43 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" > > > Guys > A few years bcak I bought the above kit. Now I am getting around to > constructing it. What is the class? Are there online blueprints > available? A > pic appears on page 41 (middle photo) of PRR Color Guide to Frt & > Pass Equip > (Sweetland & Yanosey). > Reason for these questions, by following the kits directions > comes out at 9' > 10" wide plus the vacuum formed well leaves much to be desired (probably > build a new one from styrene) > Thus I need to see a working drawing or blueprint. Thanks for any help. > > Walt P. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:16:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" Can't help on the search, but while we are at it, I have the Redball depressed center flat kit to build and am trying to match it up with photos and diagrams in Rob Schoenberg's file. Anyone know if it matches a Pennsy car? If not, what is the prototype? I'll model it lettered for a correct one. Nice thing about these old Redball cars is that at least they usually did represent some prototype--good for their day (40's?). Also, those lead castings really make the car hug the rails! Also, anyone know what the prototype, if any, is for the Roco depressed center flat? I have one lettered in Pennsy. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:03:37 -0800 Bob, The kit was meant to match the PRR F25 series, of which there are a number of good photos in Morning Sun, Keystone, etc. for your modeling fun. The sides, although not perfect, are OK to work with, but the remainder must be scratchbuilt to get the "tilted-in" lower sill. elden -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 2:16 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" Can't help on the search, but while we are at it, I have the Redball depressed center flat kit to build and am trying to match it up with photos and diagrams in Rob Schoenberg's file. Anyone know if it matches a Pennsy car? If not, what is the prototype? I'll model it lettered for a correct one. Nice thing about these old Redball cars is that at least they usually did represent some prototype--good for their day (40's?). Also, those lead castings really make the car hug the rails! Also, anyone know what the prototype, if any, is for the Roco depressed center flat? I have one lettered in Pennsy. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:29:32 -0500 Hi, I think this was rereleased in plastic by Cannon Ball Car Shops. My notes say that the CCS kit was close to an F29 but that the kit is too short. I'd also like to know if the Roco kit is close to anything PRR! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of > Bobspf@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 5:16 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" > > > Can't help on the search, but while we are at it, I have the Redball > depressed center flat kit to build and am trying to match it up > with photos > and diagrams in Rob Schoenberg's file. Anyone know if it matches > a Pennsy > car? If not, what is the prototype? I'll model it lettered for > a correct > one. Nice thing about these old Redball cars is that at least > they usually > did represent some prototype--good for their day (40's?). Also, > those lead > castings really make the car hug the rails! > > Also, anyone know what the prototype, if any, is for the Roco depressed > center flat? I have one lettered in Pennsy. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" F 25 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:38:34 -0500 Thanks guys, (and a special tip of the hat to Rob Schoenberg), After going to Rob's site and confirming that the kit is a tad bit wide, I am cutting the basswood sides to the "correct" width. It still looks peculiar, as the trucks seem to be inset to far from the sides, but it must be correct. I would say this is not a kit for the faint of heart, but I have great expectations.One needs to supply all the grabs and such as this is a "basic kit". One glaring problem is the vacuum formed well pocket. Ain't no way it can be used. I am thinking of discarding said component and scratch building my own (hey, it's only one car right?) I need to know the material (wood or steel) for the deck over the trucks also as the well pocket itself. Also, are there any cut sections available thru the well showing it's contour? Failing this are there any pics available which will allow me to "guestimate" the contour? Thanks in advance, again Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" F 25 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:27:16 -0800 Walt, the deck, both on the top and in the well, was wood planking from edge to edge, with a cutout on the top for the brake wheel ratchet mechanism. I believe that the interior planking was removable for excess height loads to a certain dimension (like the F33, F37, F49, etc) The interior walls of the well, both side and ends, were steel, with visible rivet detail, and long rectangular reinforcements on the interior sides corresponding to the vertical rows of rivets on the outside. The best interior pic is that of an F25c or e in the Keystone that had recently been rebuilt for carrying diagonal loads. Forget the floor, as it is for this guy alone, and the exterior rectangular reinforcements are only there to support the rods and pillar support assembly. Don't forget the slant of the sides in regards to dimensioning the floor and decks. Make your own bolsters, and install Bowser Crown trucks with metal wheelsets. The planking was painted in rebuildds, but the paint came off quickly and the planks were grey pretty fast. Look at your ORER for the right #s, and the interior well dimensions s to s and f to b. There were several subseries for distinct loads. OUCH for the decals.... Cooooool car elden -----Original Message----- From: Walt Prusick [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:39 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" F 25 Thanks guys, (and a special tip of the hat to Rob Schoenberg), After going to Rob's site and confirming that the kit is a tad bit wide, I am cutting the basswood sides to the "correct" width. It still looks peculiar, as the trucks seem to be inset to far from the sides, but it must be correct. I would say this is not a kit for the faint of heart, but I have great expectations.One needs to supply all the grabs and such as this is a "basic kit". One glaring problem is the vacuum formed well pocket. Ain't no way it can be used. I am thinking of discarding said component and scratch building my own (hey, it's only one car right?) I need to know the material (wood or steel) for the deck over the trucks also as the well pocket itself. Also, are there any cut sections available thru the well showing it's contour? Failing this are there any pics available which will allow me to "guestimate" the contour? Thanks in advance, again Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:44:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR TERMS Hello List, Been talking to a retired PRR conductor. I've been asking him many questions and now he is quizzing me on some PRR terms. Some I think I know some I have no clue. Here is my guesses. Can anyone fill in the blanks or correct my guesses. POLLER--- No clue GUNNY---No clue HIGHIRON---Bridge? SCOOP---tender water scoop CRUMMY---no clue WASTE---ash ? DOGBOX--compartment on tender KICK---No clue DROP---no clue SPOT---Placing a car(s) on a sidling THREE BLAST OF THE ENGINE WHISTLE---emergency stop RELAY-no clue Any help so I don't look like boob when I reply will be greatly appreciated. Mark L ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR TERMS Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:22:49 -0500 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I think High Iron refers to the main line; Crummy is a caboose (Cabin Car on the Pennsy); Waste is cotton waste rags used to pack journal bearings with grease; Drop may be to drop off a car on a siding. No clue on the others, and no guarantee these are right. I'll be interested in seeing what the other's say. Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Lehman" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 5:44 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR TERMS > Hello List, Been talking to a retired PRR conductor. I've been asking > him many questions and now he is quizzing me on some PRR terms. Some I > think I know some I have no clue. Here is my guesses. Can anyone fill in > the blanks or correct my guesses. > > POLLER--- No clue > GUNNY---No clue > HIGHIRON---Bridge? > SCOOP---tender water scoop > CRUMMY---no clue > WASTE---ash ? > DOGBOX--compartment on tender > KICK---No clue > DROP---no clue > SPOT---Placing a car(s) on a sidling > THREE BLAST OF THE ENGINE WHISTLE---emergency stop > RELAY-no clue > > Any help so I don't look like boob when I reply will be greatly > appreciated. Mark L > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:40:59 -0500 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Ball "Pennsy Semi-well Flat" F 25 Walt, See if you can get your hands on a copy of the December, 1981 issue of Prototype Modeler. It contains an article by Ian Fisher on correctly building a F-25 flat using the Red Ball kit as a starting point. Article contains all dimensional drawings necessary to make the various components of the well and the basic car body. Frank Brua Walt Prusick wrote: > Thanks guys, (and a special tip of the hat to Rob Schoenberg), > > After going to Rob's site and confirming that the kit is a tad bit wide, I > am cutting the basswood sides to the "correct" width. It still looks > peculiar, as the trucks seem to be inset to far from the sides, but it must > be correct. I would say this is not a kit for the faint of heart, but I have > great expectations.One needs to supply all the grabs and such as this is a > "basic kit". > > One glaring problem is the vacuum formed well pocket. Ain't no way it can be > used. I am thinking of discarding said component and scratch building my own > (hey, it's only one car right?) I need to know the material (wood or steel) > for the deck over the trucks also as the well pocket itself. Also, are there > any cut sections available thru the well showing it's contour? Failing this > are there any pics available which will allow me to "guestimate" the > contour? Thanks in advance, again > > Walt Prusick > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:42:39 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR TERMS Mark. Will take a stab at a few. POLLER-- Engine or car used with poll to shove car on an adjacent track. There also was a term PULLER. That was an engine moving cars from one yard to another, also associated with the electric(Battery opr.)trucks that moved mail and baggage at terminals HIGHIRON--Using or running on the Mainline. CRUMMY--Cabin car(caboose) DROP or KICK--Pushing a car and cutting off from it leaving it to drift to a stop on it own. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:40:11 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR TERMS Mark Lehman wrote: > Hello List, Been talking to a retired PRR conductor. I've been asking > him many questions and now he is quizzing me on some PRR terms. Some I > think I know some I have no clue. Here is my guesses. Can anyone fill in > the blanks or correct my guesses. > > POLLER--- No clue -Person using Pole for pushing cars on the siding by > using the engine on another track > GUNNY---No clue- Really nervous > HIGHIRON---Bridge?- Mainline Track > SCOOP---tender water scoop- Coal shovel > CRUMMY---no clue- cabin car or caboose > WASTE---ash ? cotton rags > DOGBOX--compartment on tender <--- I agree > KICK---No clue- kicking or > shoving cars quickly > DROP---no clue - coasting a car > in a siding > SPOT---Placing a car(s) on a siding - setting a car in a > definite location > THREE BLAST OF THE ENGINE WHISTLE---emergency stop > RELAY-no clue- reused rail formerly used on a > mainline but relaid on sidings, stub tracks. > > See what you think. Steve Long > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR TERMS Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:50:36 -0500 List: To "kick" a car meant spotting it in a facing point siding, by uncoupling from it in motion, accelerating the locomotive, and throwing the switch before the car rolled over it. If it did not clear, the the "poler" would have to insert a pole in the poling pocket of the locomotive and hold it until seated in the poling pocket of the car. This was supposedly forbidden, but done all the time. I always thought three blasts of the whistle while standing meant the locomotive or train was to move in reverse. I agree with Bill Bigler on 'waste", but I recall many referring to the fireman's shovel as the "scoop". Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bigler" To: "Mark Lehman" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR TERMS > Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I think High Iron refers to the main line; Crummy is a > caboose (Cabin Car on the Pennsy); Waste is cotton waste rags used to pack > journal bearings with grease; Drop may be to drop off a car on a siding. No > clue on the others, and no guarantee these are right. I'll be interested in > seeing what the other's say. > > Bill Bigler > Big Flats NY > Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & > downtown Williamsport WWII > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Lehman" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 5:44 PM > Subject: [PRR] PRR TERMS > > > > Hello List, Been talking to a retired PRR conductor. I've been asking > > him many questions and now he is quizzing me on some PRR terms. Some I > > think I know some I have no clue. Here is my guesses. Can anyone fill in > > the blanks or correct my guesses. > > > > POLLER--- No clue > > GUNNY---No clue > > HIGHIRON---Bridge? > > SCOOP---tender water scoop > > CRUMMY---no clue > > WASTE---ash ? > > DOGBOX--compartment on tender > > KICK---No clue > > DROP---no clue > > SPOT---Placing a car(s) on a sidling > > THREE BLAST OF THE ENGINE WHISTLE---emergency stop > > RELAY-no clue > > > > Any help so I don't look like boob when I reply will be greatly > > appreciated. Mark L > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:52:28 -0800 Subject: [PRR] New Book: Passenger Equipment of the PRR Volume 1: Coaches From: "Doug and Marianne" I received a copy of the new book Passenger Equipment of the PRR Volume 1: Coaches by Robert Liljestrand and David Sweetland. This is a great reference for anyone interested in PRR passenger equipment. It has about 70 quality photos of coaches. It covers the P70's in depth with both builders photos and the numerous types of rebuilds and upgrades. It also covers the later streamlined coaches. One interesting comparison shows the difference between ACF-built P85bR's and Altoona-built versions ‹ the Altoona-built cars had wrinkly sides. It is not a complete record of PRR coaches, but it comes close. The brief text and captions are well written and seem to be authoritative The photos are all black and white except for the covers, but this is a good thing, because the photos are from a variety of periods including the early decades of the 20th Century. The photos are standard car photos but they include a variety of New York Division locations including Manhattan Transfer, Sunnyside Yard, and Exchange Place. The book is a good value at $13.95 and I am looking forward to future volumes. Doug Nelson Mill Valley, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:55:14 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] New Book: Passenger Equipment of the PRR Volume 1: I have mixed emotions about the book. While it contains a lot of great fotos of P70s, it misses several major classes; notably the P70kr and the P70gsr. These were prewar streamlined modernizations. The P70kr was an overnight sleeper built to equip the Jeffersonian and the Trail Blazer. Plans for it have appeared in RMC and elsewhere. The P70gsr was a streamlined day coach for blue ribbon trains. I don't think plans for it have ever been published and fotos are scarcer than hen's teeth. But, as the table in the front of the book shows, it was more numerous (slightly) than the P70FAR. Overall the book was well worth the money for what it does contain. I hope that some subsequent volume will redress the shortfall. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Doug and Marianne wrote: > > I received a copy of the new book Passenger Equipment of the PRR Volume 1: > Coaches by Robert Liljestrand and David Sweetland. This is a great > reference for anyone interested in PRR passenger equipment. It has about 70 > quality photos of coaches. It covers the P70's in depth with both builders > photos and the numerous types of rebuilds and upgrades. It also covers the > later streamlined coaches. One interesting comparison shows the difference > between ACF-built P85bR's and Altoona-built versions ‹ the Altoona-built > cars had wrinkly sides. It is not a complete record of PRR coaches, but it > comes close. The brief text and captions are well written and seem to be > authoritative > > The photos are all black and white except for the covers, but this is a good > thing, because the photos are from a variety of periods including the early > decades of the 20th Century. The photos are standard car photos but they > include a variety of New York Division locations including Manhattan > Transfer, Sunnyside Yard, and Exchange Place. > > The book is a good value at $13.95 and I am looking forward to future > volumes. > > Doug Nelson > Mill Valley, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:45:48 -0500 (EST) From: Will Subject: [PRR] Interesting picture.... Check out http://www.railfan.net/cgi-bin/listphoto.cgi?/lists/rshsdepot-photo/rshsdepot-03-28-01/TiltyTrain.jpg Make sure you get the whole URL, it is a biggie...but then again you dont need a user name or password to get to the image either... Will Semanchuk-Enser General Manager alcoman@bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - The Blue Moon Internet Corp. V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network alcoman.Railfan.net - Homepage ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:13:46 EST Subject: [PRR] New Book: Passenger Equipment of the PRR Volume 1: Coaches In a message dated 3/29/01 8:08:41 AM Central Standard Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << While it contains a lot of great fotos of P70s, it misses several major classes; notably the P70kr and the P70gsr. >> Thanks for pointing that out, Andy. It would have been a major reason for me to buy the book. BTW, the June 1981 Rails Northeast had P70kr photos and diagrams. Nickle Plate products had the car in brass, famously mislabeled P50 in a set with an R50B (odd pairing). But you are right, P70gsr notably scarce, photo, diagram, or model. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:43:22 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] New Book: Passenger Equipment of the PRR Volume 1: I remember the RNE article. A major source of info. The only foto I've ever seen of P70gsr's is the rainy day dedication ceremony of the K4 at Horseshoe Curve. The special train to the curve is lined up in the background, and its all gsr's! Being here in New England, I get frequent questions from NH/B&M/MC fans about the East Wind. I was all P70Kr's - despite being a daytime train. I never could figure out why. BTW I'd buy the book anyway. At the low price it's well worth it for what it does have. But it would have been nice to have a one-volume reference to all P70 variations. Perhaps someone with access to the Society's archives will do a Keystone article some day. Up here in New England its hard to spend much (any?) time Lewiston. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 3/29/01 8:08:41 AM Central Standard Time, > asmiller@mitre.org writes: > > << While it contains a lot of great > fotos of P70s, it misses several major classes; notably the P70kr and > the P70gsr. >> > > Thanks for pointing that out, Andy. It would have been a major reason for me > to buy the book. BTW, the June 1981 Rails Northeast had P70kr photos and > diagrams. Nickle Plate products had the car in brass, famously mislabeled > P50 in a set with an R50B (odd pairing). But you are right, P70gsr notably > scarce, photo, diagram, or model. > > Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Andy Miller Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:24:47 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] B74s Steve Sandifer has created a great ATSF website. (http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/) In it he lists "foreign" cars which appeared on ATSF passenger trains and proceeds to provide fotos and descriptions of them. Among them, of course, are numerous PRR cars. He has some errors (what can you expect of someone west of the Mississippi?) but their trivia and I have set him straight ;-) But one of his mistakes is backed up with a foto! He claims there were two different types of B74Bs! The second foto he shows is of a B70A, theatrical scenery car, but its named for a horse farm!! Here is what I wrote him on the subject. Can anyone confirm or refute my suspicion. ---- Now for the one that has me stumped! The PRR only had one kind of B74B - the three door variety. The second car you show is a B70A. However, the B70A's were theatrical scenery cars and were named for famous shows, operas, composers, etc - everything from MOZART to IOLANTHE. Note yours are named CORDELIA and OTHELLO. The B74b's were horse express cars and were named for famous race horses or stables. The one of yours on which the name can be read is GLEN RIDDLE FARM. But the B70A you claim as a B74B is named HAVRE DE GRACE. I believe that's a famous horse farm in MD. My gut feel is that, needing more horse express cars, the PRR took some B70As and installed stalls in the and renamed them. I will have to inquire on some PRR lists. -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/D5QVlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:24:47 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: [PRR] B74s Steve Sandifer has created a great ATSF website. (http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/) In it he lists "foreign" cars which appeared on ATSF passenger trains and proceeds to provide fotos and descriptions of them. Among them, of course, are numerous PRR cars. He has some errors (what can you expect of someone west of the Mississippi?) but their trivia and I have set him straight ;-) But one of his mistakes is backed up with a foto! He claims there were two different types of B74Bs! The second foto he shows is of a B70A, theatrical scenery car, but its named for a horse farm!! Here is what I wrote him on the subject. Can anyone confirm or refute my suspicion. ---- Now for the one that has me stumped! The PRR only had one kind of B74B - the three door variety. The second car you show is a B70A. However, the B70A's were theatrical scenery cars and were named for famous shows, operas, composers, etc - everything from MOZART to IOLANTHE. Note yours are named CORDELIA and OTHELLO. The B74b's were horse express cars and were named for famous race horses or stables. The one of yours on which the name can be read is GLEN RIDDLE FARM. But the B70A you claim as a B74B is named HAVRE DE GRACE. I believe that's a famous horse farm in MD. My gut feel is that, needing more horse express cars, the PRR took some B70As and installed stalls in the and renamed them. I will have to inquire on some PRR lists. -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:58:43 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] B74s Andy, I just came across that same photo in Pennsy Power III of 5828 Havre de Grace. Not know for its accuracy, but it says both that 2-door car and the 3-door 5849 Glen Riddle Farm shown above it are B74b's. In Spring 83 Pennsy Journal the list of B74A and B74B don't include any that I have seen photos of in the 3-door variety. Most of the photos extant, including those in the lettering guide seem to be of cars before renumbering and renaming to that list. Havre de Grace is listed as a B74b in that Pennsy Journal list. Is a puzzlement. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 19:14:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] List of PRR Terms Hello list, Thanks to all who responded. It sure was interesting. This "Polling" sure would have been something to see.Here is a composite list of the responses. POLLER--Person holding pole using polling pockets in loco. Method of moving car(s) with a Loco on adjacent track. GUNNY--??????????????? HIGHIRON--Main Line Trackage SCOOP-- Firmans shovel or Fireman CRUMMY-- Cabin Car WASTE--Cotton rags used to pack bearing journals then oiled.Bearing lubrication method. DOGBOX--Brakemans shelter on Loco Tender KICK---shove/push a car(s) without coupling, quickly stopping the loco and let the car(s) coast into a siding. DROP-- Loco pulling car(s) is uncoupled on the move and accelerated away from the car(s) still moving. once the loco clears the siding switch the switch is thrown and the car(s) coast into the siding. SPOT--To place a car(s) in a specific location in the proper orientation for loading and unloading THREE BLAST OF THE ENGINEWHISTLE--- Back up RELAY--old term for a manned block signal station. Train changes crews and then continues on to destination. To reuse track in a siding. I'll let you know how the PRR man responds----------Mark L------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 20:36:03 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] List of PRR Terms In a message dated 3/29/01 7:27:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net writes: << WASTE--Cotton rags used to pack bearing journals then oiled.Bearing lubrication method. >> Actually - rags is a bit to advanced for what the RR called "Waste" - It was actually comprised of unwoven thread I recall RR mployees telling how "Supers" would use the "Waste" also as a spot check for color blindness - pulling out threads and asking the employee to identify the color. RRoss Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 19:18:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Book: Passenger Equipment of the PRR Volume 1: From: "Doug and Marianne" For those interested, the book is published by The Railroad Press. You can order it from TRP, PO Box 444, Hanover, PA 17331-0444. Mention PRR-Talk list and you can get it with free shipping. The book is shown on their website at: www.alco628.com Doug N. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BNdave1@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:04:35 EST Subject: [PRR] 1936 PRR track charts on ebay # 1126734116 Just noticed an interesting set of PRR 1936 track charts on ebay # 1126734116. Appear to be in pretty good condition for that age. Sale ends Friday evening (to-morrow night). ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Book: Passenger Equipment of the PRR Volume 1: Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:05:04 -0600 Jerry, our listmaster, also has the book available at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com . That supports this List and Jerry gives really good service. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Freight Cars list Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:37:20 -0500 List: I know a few others on this list also participate in the Freight Cars List run by Richard Hosker at Tennessee Tech. I received two messages on 3/28 saying messages to this list were undeliverable and have seen nothing since. Are others having the same problem? Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight Cars list Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:45:05 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell On 30 Mar, "Gregg Mahlkov" wrote: > I know a few others on this list also participate in the Freight Cars List > run by Richard Hosker at Tennessee Tech. I received two messages on 3/28 > saying messages to this list were undeliverable and have seen nothing since. > Are others having the same problem? Yeah, their name resolvers are not answering, I cannot get any answers from their server, so I can't get any addresses for their domain. The net appears to be running, since I can ping their nameserver host, but their nameservers are down, even the backup. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:59:02 -0500 Subject: TANGENT Re: [PRR] Freight Cars list From: Jerry Britton On 3/30/01 9:45 AM, Dennis Rockwell (dennis@bbn.com) wrote: >> I know a few others on this list also participate in the Freight Cars List >> run by Richard Hosker at Tennessee Tech. I received two messages on 3/28 >> saying messages to this list were undeliverable and have seen nothing since. >> Are others having the same problem? > > Yeah, their name resolvers are not answering, I cannot get > any answers from their server, so I can't get any addresses > for their domain. The net appears to be running, since I > can ping their nameserver host, but their nameservers are > down, even the backup. > I know not what domain name you are referencing, but if both the primary and secondary DNS fail to respond, but you can ping the nameservers, I would check the domain registration to see if it was allowed to expire. That would cause the problem you seem to be experiencing. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Don Millbranth" Subject: [PRR] PRR Track Charts Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:57:12 -0600 There are two PRR Track Charts currently listed on e-Bay. They are items #1127259585 (Vincennes to Indy - 1954) and #1127261619 (Logansport to ndy. - 1954). These are not my listings. I just happened to see them ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:27:12 -0800 From: James Stob Subject: [PRR] Coverdale & Colpitts Good Afternoon, I have a four-volume set of Coverdale & Colpitts history of the PRR from 1846-1945. In very good condition. They belonged to a top PRR/PC exec who passed away in 1997. It is set #28, and his name is in the books with an issuance voucher. If any person or institution is interested, please contact me with an offer at: jimstob@mindspring.com Thanks much. Jim Stob Son of a 48 year Pennsy man ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Day" Subject: [PRR] PRR Gas Electric/Timonium Show. Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:22:47 -0500 Did our beloved PRR own these. I thought I saw something that looked like a Doodlebug once in a PRR photo. I have one (Bachmann Doodlebug) lettered for the NYC (yuck!) and would like to re-do it for the PRR. Would need lettering/numbering/interior info also. As a side item; is anybody doing Timonium next weekend. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] List of PRR terms Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:27:17 -0500 Minor technical point of correction - Mark Lehman said> RELAY--.....To reuse track in a siding. -------------------------- Actually it is to reuse rail not track and it was not necessarily restricted to just sidings - rail was cascaded from its first position, typically in main track, to a lesser track such as a branch main and even sometimes placed in a third position on a siding or yard tack. It all depended on how badly it became worn in its first position, as was possible for badly worn rail to go from first lay in main track to yard track. Typically rail when removed from track was classified as either relay, reroller or scrap. Relay meant it could be used again in track, reroller meant it could be sold as is to a mill to be rerolled into a different shape and scrap meant it was only good to be melted and made into "new" steel. Reroller rail commanded a higher price on the market than scrap. This classification of rail was usually done at the rail reclamation plant. Ties and other track material (OTM) that were reusable were classified as "fit" not relay. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:14:29 EST Subject: [PRR] Relaid Rail PRR List, The request for definitions for PRR Terms brought back an old memory of the "relaid" rail. I started out on the Reading in the M of W dept. working the mainline between Birdsboro and Reading. On our curves at Klapperthal Jct., the head of the outer rail on the curves had worn to a sharpe edge while the edge on the inner rail had done the same to a lesser degree. The solution was to swap the rails between the inner and the outer positions yielding a good heads. The AFE had "relaid rail" in its title. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:22:03 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Relaid Rail In a message dated 3/30/01 11:27:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, RDG2124@aol.com writes: << The solution was to swap the rails between the inner and the outer positions yielding good rail heads. >> Pennsy did this, regularly, on the famous curve below Galitzen RR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 10:54:40 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Gas Electric/Timonium Show. Doug, Yes, the PRR owned a number of classes of gas electric and oil electric cars. Unfortuantely, the "model" produced by Botchman is a freelanced creation of their imaginations and represents no known prototype from any road or manufacturer. It ain't just not Pennsy, its not anything! The only available models of PRR "doodlebugs" are brass and there are a number of them (representing the fairly wide range of classes). The PRR was never as big a user of these cars as many other railroads, seemingly prefering the flexibility of a smaller H, E or G class steamer with a couple of cars to the fixed asset of a motorcar. Happy Rails Bruce On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Doug Day wrote: > Did our beloved PRR own these. I thought I saw something that looked like a > Doodlebug once in a PRR photo. I have one (Bachmann Doodlebug) lettered for > the NYC (yuck!) and would like to re-do it for the PRR. Would need > lettering/numbering/interior info also. > > As a side item; is anybody doing Timonium next weekend. > > Doug > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!!