From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Calendar Photo Caption Error Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:19:57 -0400 I was much surprise this morning when I turned my PRR 2000 calendar (Published by Weekend Chief, Mineola, NY) forward to July and was staring at four sharks along the Erie, PA lake front. Then I read the caption - its dead wrong. In as much as the train is running along the lake front in Erie, PA adjacent to Dock Street this places it between Dock Jct. yard and OD yard. From the angle of the sun one can determine the train is eastbound. The caption states "it has just begun it 218 mile trip to Williamsport." This is dead wrong. Trains from Erie to Williamsport typically depart from OD yard, this train has yet to arrive at OD yard. This is most likely either train BEC-2 (Chicago-Buffalo) or train EP-1 (Conway-Erie) having come off the E&P Branch. This is further substantiated by the motive power - class BF16 number 9739, which was equipped with ATS, in order to run on the NYC from Girard Jct. to Dock Jct. Units equipped with ATS would typically not have been dispatched east beyond OD yard (i.e., to Williamsport). They were generally restricted to the E&P and other runs where ATS equipped units were required. Suggested caption is below: PRR ATS equipped BF16 - 9739 most likely has either train BEC-2 (Chicago-Buffalo) or EP-1 (Conway-Erie) in tow along the Erie, PA Lake Front as it passes the PenElec generating station plant on Front Street. This merchandise train has previously come off the E&P Branch and the NYC between Girard Junction and Dock Junction and is enroute to OD Yard. Courtesy of Bob's Photos. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PC-Buff@webtv.net Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 19:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Newberry Yard Took a trip to Newberry Yard in Williamsport this morning. Took a lot of interesting photos. There is a flat car built in 9-24 for boom crane service there. Lots of old Reading(D+H) XLj boxcars. Too much there to put on list but if you are interested drop me an E-Mail off list and I will explain more. John MP 258 (SF) Sunbury Pa ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DPoole17@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 20:19:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] CONDUCTOR'S BRASS I have a set of PRR Conductor's buttons and lapel pins. (4) Lapel pins, (5) large Jacket Buttons and (9) small Vest Buttons. Mint condition. Does anyone know their value?? I also have a set of PC buttons and lapel pins and a CONRAIL lapel pin. Dpoole17@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Dmurp670@cs.com Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:23:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Calendar Photo Caption Error In a message dated 7/1/00 10:32:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, abbuchan@home.com writes: > > I was much surprise this morning when I turned my PRR 2000 calendar > (Published by Weekend Chief, Mineola, NY) forward to July and was staring at > four sharks along the Erie, PA lake front. Then I read the caption - its > dead wrong. > > In as much as the train is running along the lake front in Erie, PA adjacent > to Dock Street this places it between Dock Jct. yard and OD yard. From the > angle of the sun one can determine the train is eastbound. The caption > states "it has just begun it 218 mile trip to Williamsport." This is dead > wrong. Trains from Erie to Williamsport typically depart from OD yard, this > train has yet to arrive at OD yard. > > This is most likely either train BEC-2 (Chicago-Buffalo) or train EP-1 > (Conway-Erie) having come off the E&P Branch. This is further substantiated > by the motive power - class BF16 number 9739, which was equipped with ATS, > in order to run on the NYC from Girard Jct. to Dock Jct. Units equipped with > ATS would typically not have been dispatched east beyond OD yard (i.e., to > Williamsport). They were generally restricted to the E&P and other runs > where ATS equipped units were required. > > Suggested caption is below: > > PRR ATS equipped BF16 - 9739 most likely has either train BEC-2 > (Chicago-Buffalo) or EP-1 (Conway-Erie) in tow along the Erie, PA Lake Front > as it passes the PenElec generating station plant on Front Street. This > merchandise train has previously come off the E&P Branch and the NYC between > Girard Junction and Dock Junction and is enroute to OD Yard. Courtesy of > Bob's Photos. > Sorry! The train is not enroute to OD yard. OD is behind the train. The sun angle is a setting sun therefore, it is westbound leaving Lake Yard headed to Dock Junction and the E&P branch. The engines are between French St. and State St. It may be a BEC train or perhaps EP2. There is no Dock St. in Erie. I live here in Erie and am very familiar with the location of the shot. Just above the engines at the top of the bluff on the right is Hamot Hospital where in 1961 when I was 10 I watched trains depart this yard while hospitalized for a couple of weeks. Lake yard is still there although it has been downsized and the throat moved east a block or so. The track today extends west only a half mile or so to the GAF plant at Sassafras St. Don Murphy Recreating Operations on the Renovo and the E&A Divisions circa 1946 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: STEVEGG1@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:41:04 EDT Subject: [PRR] Monkton I goofed. The Northern Central book is by Gunnarsson not Harwood. Sorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 23:45:27 +0100 From: Ken Meyer Subject: Re: [PRR] Orangeville, MD questions I believe Orangeville was closed in 1983. This was under Conrail. Conan Evans wrote: > > Can anyone say about when the Orangeville engine facility was closed? Was > it Conrail or Penn Central that closed it? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Andy Miller Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 09:59:09 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] L1 Doghouses I seem to recall seeing photos of some L1's with the modern 3-man tender doghouse. This is the doghouse that was used on J1s, Q's, and retrofitted to some I1s. Can anyone confirm (or deny) that L1's ever had tenders with this doghouse? -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need a credit card? Instant Approval and 0% intro APR with Aria! http://click.egroups.com/1/6034/8/_/586931/_/962633982/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Fw: PRR-Talk Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 21:52:45 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bigler To: Jerry Britton Date: Thursday, July 06, 2000 5:01 PM Subject: PRR-Talk >Jerry, > >I seem to be having a problem with PRR-Talk - I haven't received any >messages for a week or two, maybe more. I sent a message to "listmaster" >this morning, but got a message back that there are problems delivering it. >Am I having a problem, or is PRR-Talk having a problem? Or both? Am I >still on the list? I'd appreciate it if you could get me straightened out >and back to getting messages again. > >Thanks in advance for your help! > >Bill Bigler >Big Flats NY >Modeling PRR Renovo Div. WWII > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] TEST IS this list still active. No mail in a day or two!!!!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 20:02:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: PRR-Talk In a message dated 7/8/2000 4:55:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wbigler@stny.rr.com writes: << I seem to be having a problem with PRR-Talk - I haven't received any >messages for a week or two, maybe more >> They have been sparse here too, Bill. Let's test this out. I got your post. Let me knwo if you see mine. Lee ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:45:41 EDT Subject: [PRR] New Athearn Stuff Folks, I get notices now and again regarding plans at Athearn. I hear tell they plan to release a new diesel in their regular line (which will be receiving new drives, by the way), another Genesis steamer, and Genesis box car(s) kits, all by the end of the year. Anyone have any notion what these models could be? Thanks, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JoeBlatz@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 20:14:20 EDT Subject: [PRR] Test Message THIS A TEST MESSAGE EVERYONE PLEASE REPLY! Thank You ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] Is anybody out there??? Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 22:54:23 EDT I haven't received any message all day what is up? everybody on vacation? Sam ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Trombone Man" Subject: [PRR] Triumph Series Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 06:56:47 -0400 Does anyone have a listing of the order for the Triumph Series of books on the PRR? I know where some great bridge reconstruction photographs are for the Allegheny Valley branch in Armstrong County that would be superb for their efforts. Dennis F. Cramer--Teacher-Trombonist-Historian-Conductor www.geocities.com/armconband ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 20:43:13 -0400 TEST MESSAGE RECEIVED O.K. HERE. -----Original Message----- From: JoeBlatz@aol.com To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, July 08, 2000 9:02 PM Subject: [PRR] Test Message >THIS A TEST MESSAGE > >EVERYONE PLEASE REPLY! > >Thank You > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 20:58:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message I got the test. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 18:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR H6a #1922 Hello, I'm looking for info on H6a #1922. Gary dug up a little for me. He figures 1900 to 1902. I'd like to find out exactly when it was built.( year) Was it updated? Thanks Mark L . ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 16:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Just a Test...... Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:31:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message I got the message ok here. Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:51:14 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Black Gold- Black Diamonds II From: Fred G Rea Some of you may have been waiting for this. Black Gold-Black Diamonds Volume II is now taking pre-publication orders. Trains magazine for August 2000, pg 87. Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: [PRR] Test msg Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:46:48 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01BFE926.04601CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This test ok There have been no messages on the board for a few = days. Jim Lash ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01BFE926.04601CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This test = ok      =20 There have been no messages on the board for a few days.   Jim = Lash
------=_NextPart_000_0086_01BFE926.04601CE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 22:01:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message A 0kay ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:17:53 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] 1918 CT1000 Does anyone on the list own a 1918 CT1000 or know of a library which has one? If so, would you e-mail me off-list to discuss a photo-copy? On a similar topic, anyone know a good source for hens' teeth? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 22:26:49 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] PRR hats Hello folks... Someone might know where to find this... I know that Narhwood Inc. of Philadelphia made both PRR and PC uniforms and that another company supplied the hats. Perhaps more than one over the years. I have both the uniform and hat that were my dads,but the label for the hat is gone. Its a winter hat. I know that before the 1950's the hats had three white stripes around them and that a cloth conductors badge was used,then later a simple brass conductors badge and finally the "Keystone" badge. Various companies supplied the buttons over the years. 1. Does anyone know the name of the hat supplier ? 2. Are they still in business ? 3. If not..does anyone know of a company that supplies similar or identical hats. I'm in the process of getting together complete uniforms for both PRR and PC. I think PRR's supplier might be still in business. They might have also supplied Reading,PRSL,PRT and Septa. Any help will be appreciated. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:45:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] ***Other = PRR-Modeling Group started ! Geeez, Take a break, PRR-talk is operating just fine...relax, and stick to the FACTS Happy Rails Bruce On Sat, 8 Jul 2000, John F. Ryan, Jr. wrote: > I believe that Jerry is on vacation through tomorrow and probabkly doesn't know that something has > happened to his site. > > John Ryan > > Bill Strassner wrote: > > > ***For those of you suffering for days from DGLE discussion withdrawal, > > there is now a PRR Modeling Group formed at = > > > > PRR-Modeling@egroups.com > > > > This is a free form, un-moderated interchange for the sharing of modeling > > ideas and interests, and hopefully pix ! > > > > Hopefully, it will be as friendly, informative and polite as Our Other PRR > > Lists have been ! > > > > Thx, Bill Strassner*-* > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com: > http://click.egroups.com/1/5530/8/_/586931/_/963106051/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:49:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message Aw come on Joe, You've got to be NUTS...you want 500+ subscribers to reply back????? PLEASE do NOT respond...PRR talk is working just fine - Jerry is on vacation, and something IS wrong with his personal email account, the be the lists are working A OK...so lets get back to the PRR and stop testing the list! Happy Rails Bruce On Sat, 8 Jul 2000 JoeBlatz@aol.com wrote: > THIS A TEST MESSAGE > > EVERYONE PLEASE REPLY! > > Thank You > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 23:13:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] Thanks for Lines West hints... My trip to Nebraska wasn't particularly fruitful in terms of PRR sights seen; I didn't get to Crestline until well after dark (it was almost dark when I got to Alliance), and because of time pressure I went on to the vicinity of Fort Wayne before calling it a night. There is a nice bridge over US30 somewhere west of Fort Wayne with PRR keystones cast in the concrete, but I didn't manage to get pictures. On the way back it was dark during most of my time in PRR territory as well, but after seeing enough to whet my appetite I hope to make it at least back to Crestline sometime soon. Thanks for the suggestions... -D -incidentally, I don't know what the deal is with jumping on the few-day outage of this list as an opportunity to create another one is; What's so great about fragmenting the PRR community? Having many places to have the same topic come up disjointly seems like a huge waste. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Gehrett" Subject: RE: [PRR] C-Liner Trainphone Installation Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 22:59:14 -0500 > For those planning to add trainphones to their Life Like Proto 1000 FM > C-Liners, Jerry Breon has been kind enough to provide five detail photos of > the installation on his Overland brass C-Liner. > > You may view these images on his layout's web site at... > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/breon/ > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Those are great pictures. Does anyone know if the antennas are available for sale and by which manufacturer? Thanks. Jim Gehrett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 6 Jul 2000 05:05:25 -0700 From: james bacon Subject: [PRR] Renovo report Spent the night in Renovo, Pa. Saturday-Sunday. The new company moving into town is starting to clear some land at the west end of the old yard site; between the highway bridge and the coal dock. Local paper stated that they purchased 8 acres. Being as the whole yard occupied 80, perhaps their new building will not encroach on the old shop buildings. Several trains passed thru during the night. One was empties north, then loads (coal) south 2 hours later with same power; likely from Keating Jct off RJCP. Another fast but short train, probably the "mini-train", the unit log train for International Paper passed thru southbound about 4:00 AM. Then two manifests, one south and one north. Both stopped for fresh crews. Yes, I stay at the same motel where the crews change. NS has changed train symbols; from the check-in sheet at the motel I saw symbols such as 40T, 21T, 13W, and M3W. Anyone out there know what these mean????? Jeff, please respond to this as I suspect there may be something wrong with my e-maill inbox. Later, Jim Bacon _______________________________________________________________________ $1 million in prizes! 20 daily instant winners. AltaVista Rewards: Click here to win! http://shopping.altavista.com/e.sdc?e=3 _______________________________________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 6 Jul 2000 05:05:25 -0700 From: james bacon Subject: [PRR] Renovo report Spent the night in Renovo, Pa. Saturday-Sunday. The new company moving into town is starting to clear some land at the west end of the old yard site; between the highway bridge and the coal dock. Local paper stated that they purchased 8 acres. Being as the whole yard occupied 80, perhaps their new building will not encroach on the old shop buildings. Several trains passed thru during the night. One was empties north, then loads (coal) south 2 hours later with same power; likely from Keating Jct off RJCP. Another fast but short train, probably the "mini-train", the unit log train for International Paper passed thru southbound about 4:00 AM. Then two manifests, one south and one north. Both stopped for fresh crews. Yes, I stay at the same motel where the crews change. NS has changed train symbols; from the check-in sheet at the motel I saw symbols such as 40T, 21T, 13W, and M3W. Anyone out there know what these mean????? Jeff, please respond to this as I suspect there may be something wrong with my e-maill inbox. Later, Jim Bacon _______________________________________________________________________ $1 million in prizes! 20 daily instant winners. AltaVista Rewards: Click here to win! http://shopping.altavista.com/e.sdc?e=3 _______________________________________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 01:38:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 1918 CT1000 Bob The only years as far as I know that a CT 1000 was printed were 1923 and 1945. I've never seen one earlier or later than those. There must of been one done before the 1923 one but I've never seen one or heard of the date. I think Jerry has a copy of the 1923 one on Keystone Crossings. I know he has the 1945 one as I loaned it to him to scan. ---------------------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: [PRR] RE: Autumn 1982 Keystone (Chicago Terminal Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 00:11:45 -0700 Aloha Pennsy listers, Looking for a copy (photocopy OK) of the Autumn 1982 issue of The Keystone featuring the Chicago Terminal Division and Englewood, IN. Will cover all reproduction and shipping costs. Please contact me off-list if able to fill this request. Mahalo and aloha! Ben Hom b.hom@worldnet.att.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rick Schoch" Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 03:42:08 -0400 I'm still here. Rick S(pf) Parsippany NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 8:14 PM Subject: [PRR] Test Message > THIS A TEST MESSAGE > > EVERYONE PLEASE REPLY! > > Thank You > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 08:32:10 -0400 From: "David J. Wartell" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1918 CT1000 There were CT 1000's before 1923. I have a 1913 CT 1000 and a CT 1000D for 1915 (Northern Division). The 1923 states that it replaces one from 1918. The 1913 CT 1000 replaced one from 1911. These are clearly titled CT 1000. I am about to head off for vacation myself, later this morning and will return next Sunday. Dave >Bob The only years as far as I know that a CT 1000 was printed were 1923 and >1945. I've never seen one earlier or later than those. There must of been one >done before the 1923 one but I've never seen one or heard of the date. I >think Jerry has a copy of the 1923 one on Keystone Crossings. I know he has >the 1945 one as I loaned it to him to scan. >---------------------------------- Ken McCorry > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". Dave Wartell djwartel@ix.netcom.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 09:22:43 -0400 Subject: [PRR] We're Back! From: Jerry Britton Dang! After a year of making our system failure-proof so I can take a week off and relax, boom, someone else's failure becomes mine! I returned home to find my servers working fine, but my logs showing no web data served since 7/3 and no list traffic since then. Odd, for working servers. Then I checked my voice mail. A call from my ISP notified me that all of their DSL lines had been down and later reset at their end, and that I would need to do a manual reset at my end. Huh! There's no way I can automate that!!!! Therefore, I was down since then, until I pushed the itty, bitty, little button that performed the reset and had the connection back open within a minute. Geez, can't I ever take a vacation? Anyway, all is well now. Some of you were getting through, but that was only because your systems were caching my site's IP addresses. Anyone else would have gotten a "server not found" type of error. Anyway, sorry 'bout that. Reminds me that I am the "dealer" to quite a bunch of "addicts"! Gee, it's nice to be wanted! ;-) The Merchandise Service sale, to end today, will be extended one week due to the downtime. Sale covers Bachmann Spectrum City Scenes kits, LL P1K C-Liners, and Digitrax starter sets and throttles. Sale will end NEXT Sunday to make up for the downtime. Thanks! Other than that, vacation was great. Scored mega points with the wife when I volunteered to sit in the condo every day whilst the 2-year-old took has daily nap. What she didn't know is that I had smuggled several dozen freight car kits along on the trip which I assembled during that time!!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 08:31:25 +0000 Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message > Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:49:06 -0500 (CDT) > From: Bruce F Smith > To: JoeBlatz@aol.com > Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message > PLEASE do NOT respond...PRR talk is working just fine - Jerry is on > vacation, and something IS wrong with his personal email account, the be > the lists are working A OK...so lets get back to the PRR and stop testing > the list! > > Happy Rails > Bruce PRR-talk was NOT working fine and neither was Keystone Crossings website. Roger Roger Hensley rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 09:35:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 1918 CT1000 Bob. I have a June 1st 1915 if that will help. What in specific are you looking for? Drop me a note. Pat McKinney PRRT&HS #1254 Altoona, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 08:34:48 +0000 Subject: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars Since these were Pennsy cars, I thought that they might interest some of you on this list. I have pictures of both cars on my Railroads of Madison County web pages at http://madisonrails.railfan.net Take the 'Slides' link. I have already added this writeup to the pages. Please note that this is now part of a Copyrighted work. Roger ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 10:04:55 -0400 Subject: Snow Plows and Flanger Cars July 4, 2000 The two cars pictured in your page are identified further as follows: 1. CR64514 was originally PRR 497783, built November, 1946, for the PRR. 2. CR64721 was originally a PRR Class X25 or X26 boxcar rebuilt into a flanger car by the PRR in 1962. The original built date as boxcar was January, 1925. While both of these pieces of equipment have flanger blades their function was not the same. The use of the Russell Plow was not only intended to clear the track and several feet on either side but the flanger blade was used to remove the first three inches or so of ice and snow below the top of the rail. This build up of ice and packed snow could tear off steam connectors on passenger cars and air hoses on all equipment. Both the single track and double track Russell Plows had doors which were pushed out by air cylinders to essentially push the snow away form the edge of the ballast as far as possible. These Russell plows, when the shipping or movement fixtures were removed and stored in the car body, would run with the plow blade resting onto of the ball of the rail. The special coupler and its support features was also removed and stored in the carboy when plowing. The true Russell Plows had a floating draft sill that extended to the center pin of the front truck so that when plowing and the weight of the snow was on the blade the blade would ride ride on the ball of the rail the force from the pushing locomotive would be applied where needed. The Erie-Lackawanna plows which were built on old steam locomotive tender underframes did not have this floating sill. These E-L plows also utilized the tender trucks. There was a door that covered the opening for the attachment of the front coupler and its fittings. This door was closed during plowing operations to prevent snow form become packed between the backside of the plow blade and the front truck. If snow was allowed to become packed in this area the plow body would be lifted off the truck and derailment could occur. The PRR flanger cars were used to remove ice and snow from between the rails down to the cross ties. If ice was allowed to accumulate between the rails the track gauge could become widened to a point that wheels sets could fall between the rails. There were several places on the old PRR that ice was a problem such as at Cresson, Pennsylvania. Feel free to use any, all or none of the foregoing as you see fit. John Reehling ============================== Roger Roger Hensley rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 10:31:51 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars In a message dated 7/9/00 8:50:04 AM Central Daylight Time, rhensley@anderson.cioe.com writes: << Since these were Pennsy cars, I thought that they might interest some of you on this list. I have pictures of both cars on my Railroads of Madison County web pages at http://madisonrails.railfan.net Take the 'Slides' link. I have already added this writeup to the pages. Please note that this is now part of a Copyrighted work. >> Interesting post. Please forward my thanks to John Reehling for a good explanation. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 11:26:11 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Black Gold-Black Diamonds II From: Fred G Rea In response to those who asked: The list price is $50. The pre publication price is $37.50 +$5.00 S/H and for Ohio residents 7% sales tax. Order it from: Mileposts Publishing 3963 Dryden DR N. Olmsted, OH 44070 Since the pre-pub price is good until Oct 1 I would wait awhile before I would starting standing by my mail box. I hope it is as great as Volume I. Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 10:55:56 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6a #1922 Mark, list, According to Edson's PRR All-time Steam Roster, H6a 1922 was built by Baldwin (c/n 19984) in January 1902 and was sold for scrap to UI&M in December 1926. She was not converted to H6sa, and so retained slide valves her entire life. Doug Mark Lehman wrote: > Hello, I'm looking for info on H6a #1922. > Gary dug up a little for me. He figures 1900 to 1902. I'd like to find > out exactly when it was built.( year) Was it updated? > > Thanks Mark L . > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 11:38:18 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] 110P75a (type 5) kitbash in HO Hello list, This is another in a long line of K4s tender posts. On my latest two Bachmann K4s engines, I had converted the 110P70s into ersatz 110P75a tenders by raising the firing deck and adding tender steps, and living with the (inaccurate) rivet lines. I found another way, which involves a little more effort, but it eliminates the rivet lines entirely. The Spring 1988 Keystone has Roger Keyser's exhaustive Kiesel tender article. On page 49, there's a shot of a 110P75a with smooth sides. It was one of 5 110P75as that were streamlined for use with the 3768 (her second streamlined tender, after the 180P75 was found to be too large for her) and the 1120, 3678, 2665, and 5338. After these engines were destreamlined in the 1940s, their formerly streamlined tenders retained their smooth sides. I had a Bachmann 110P70 that I picked up at one of the Timonium shows (I really, really, miss them, living as I do in Texas). Before I could really stop myself, I sanded all of the rivet lines off of the tender body, and I was left with a pretty smooth shell. I raised the firing deck as I did with my other conversions, and that was pretty much it. I replaced the marker lights with brass ones, and did the same for the ladder. I believe that these particular tenders had the marker lights relocated to the rear tender wall, as I don't see them on the top of the 1120's tank. The other major problem with this approach is that the coal space remains too short; I retained the 110P70's 18 ton coal space, versus the 110P75a's 22 tons. I elected to live with this discrepancy, but you could cut the top of the coal bunker off and add a new top of the correct length to the cistern body (and then shorten the rear tender deck and relocated the water hatch). Anyway, until we can convince someone to make a 110P75a in resin, this will be another way to skin a cat. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] What happened? Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 18:27:37 +0100 Anyway, it's good to be back. It's easy to flip when your favourite list appears to go belly up. A bit like being in a sealed room when someone turns out the lights. I wouldn't mind a tenner, though, for every one of those 'test' messages. Regards, John H. Wright (who has just bought two Walther's FA1 units ..... can't understand what came over me ) Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 13:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR H6a #1922 Thanks for the info Doug, Well at least I have a good family photo of # 1922 !!!! Mark L . ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BlockTruck@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 13:49:29 EDT Subject: [PRR] X-42 in Stores Dept. service I know that X-42s were assigned Penn Central numbers 8590 through 8599. This is fact. I do not know if any ever actually received these numbers, or any other PC numbers. I know at least one X-42 was in Stores Department service under Penn Central, and I know that it was painted PC green. I do not know if it carried a PC number at the time, or if it had been whitelined. This X-42 was for a long time spotted south of Stanley Car shop, just east of the RIP tracks. I welcome ANY information on X-42s life after PRR. JT Roberts ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] Freight Car Color... Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:43:10 -0400 Ok, to reopen a can of worms and revisit a question many times asked but never really answered.. What's a good (your favorite) recipie for freight car color using scalecoat (or polyscale)? I have a bunch of resin kits that need painting. I'm planning on using Scalecoat... 50% oxide red to 50% freight car red looks pretty good to me for later cars but I need mix(es) for ealier cars... I have a couple of cars from the 20's and some 40's-50's era cars to paint also... Thanks! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight Car Color... Rob, Your formula is petty much what I use. Give or take a little on the mixing percentages and your result is a fleet of varied looking cars. With weathering (dark streaking or light fades) added, the results is even a wider range of finishes. For earlier cars I have no formula as I never did any work on "old" equipment. Maybe add a little more red to your mixture as the early freight car color was a "redder" shade......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 15:14:24 -0500 (CDT) From: harperd@tamug.tamu.edu (Don Harper) Subject: [PRR] PRR: ribbed vs. plain wheels Question. Did the PRR use ribbed wheels on any of its freight cars? If so, which ones? I'm converting all the plastic wheels to metal wheels so they can run on the Museum layout, and Bowser's H21a cars came with ribbed wheels. I've seen a few photos of stacks of wheels, and don't remember any ribs. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:48:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight Car Color... In a message dated 7/9/00 1:47:52 PM Central Daylight Time, robs@actel.com writes: << What's a good (your favorite) recipie for freight car color using scalecoat (or polyscale)? >> I'll repeat my previous answer: I have settled on PollyScale 50% special oxide red and 50% zinc chromate. I don't make a fetish of the exact 50-50, accepting a little variety in the basic shade to account for differences in weathering and age. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 18:13:04 -0400 From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: ribbed vs. plain wheels IIRC, the switch to plain wheels came in the early 1950's. John Ryan Don Harper wrote: > Question. Did the PRR use ribbed wheels on any of its freight cars? If > so, which ones? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 18:27:34 -0400 From: Mike Morrow Subject: [PRR] New Book? Has anyone on the list heard of this book? Set Up Running : The Life of a Pennsylvania Railroad Engineman by John W. Orr According to Amazon it will be released in October 2000. Mike Morrow PRRT&HS #6703 Modeling the Elmira Branch 1956-57 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Joseph Schwieterman" Subject: [PRR] End of the (PRR) line, Westerville, OH Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 18:55:31 CDT I'm pulling together information about the demise of rail service to Westerville, Ohio. Accordingly, I'm interested in learning more about the events leading to the abandonment of the most southerly portion of the old PRR Akron Branch. This town has an interesting heritage as a center for the national Temperance movement and shipped hundreds of thousands of anti-alcohol publications by rail during the early 20th century. My records show that Conrail received approval to abandon the local portion of the route in March 1982. Has anybody explored the history of this route? Anybody have any good photos? JPS ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: ribbed vs. plain wheels Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:21:56 +1000 Don, With regards to ribbed back wheels. 1958 banned from being installed on New or Rebuilt cars 1969 Banned on all cars Source:- Model Railroader November 69 p47 This is industry wide of course not just PRR. As far as the modelling side goes I recommend the Intermountain wheels on the Bowser cars that use Bowser trucks and Kadee on the ones that use Stewart trucks. The IMR wheels are slightly shorter and seem to run better in the Bowser sideframes. (and Walthers). Hope this helps. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie Slobbering Pennsy Freak ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Harper To: Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 6:14 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR: ribbed vs. plain wheels > Question. Did the PRR use ribbed wheels on any of its freight cars? If > so, which ones? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:26:19 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: PRR-Talk There is talk on the PRRSignals group that PRR-Talk is defunct. I have not received any messages except the two testing the system in over 2 weeks. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: PRR-Talk Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:27:25 +1000 Its back online. It had server problems. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An AussieSlobbering Pennsy Freak ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: PRR-Talk > There is talk on the PRRSignals group that PRR-Talk is defunct. I have not > received any messages except the two testing the system in over 2 weeks. > > Rich Orr > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:18:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: PRR-Talk From: Jerry Britton On 7/10/00 12:26 AM, SUVCWORR@aol.com at (SUVCWORR@aol.com) wrote: > There is talk on the PRRSignals group that PRR-Talk is defunct. I have not > received any messages except the two testing the system in over 2 weeks. > Just another example of unsubstantiated "facts" being shared!!! Guess it's just "wishful thinking". Here are yesterday's "PRR-Talk" stats: On 7/10/00 12:00 AM, PRR-Talk at (PRR-Talk@dsop.com) wrote: > Message posts 25 > Subscribes 1 > Unsubscribes 1 > > Total subscribers 424 > Here are yesterday's "Keystone Crossings" stats: > Here are the statistics for your server (192.168.1.2/) on: Sunday, July 9, > 2000 > > 6370 Connections/Hits > 444146KData Moved > 11 High Connects > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:03:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message Test reply. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon Jul 10 17:49:09 2000 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Bill Daniels HELP Bill Daniels, I am at work and have a question for you and this damn AOL won't let me access my address book. Can you contact me off line Ed and I are looking for some detail parts you might know where to find. Thanks in advance... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:54:06 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Precision Scale Company Water scoop Hello list, I just received my first order from PSC today. I ordered 7 of their HO 3401 water scoops. I have lots of the old Bowser high sided (ersatz 90P/F75) and low sided (no known prototype) tenders. Unlike the Cal Scale water scoop set, the PSC casting is two pieces, and consists solely of the water scoop and it's bracket. PSC's part is easier to paint because it's two pieces, and I'll be adding one to my G5s' tender tonight. The PSC HO 3401 costs $3.00, making bulk purchases possible; the other prototypes I model (CNJ, B&O) also used scoops. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:15:13 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: PRR-Talk Bill, Thank God! It's not just me. Ed Martin...banned by Pacific Southwest Region N.M.R.A. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:17:38 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] TEST Mark, Yes, signs of life are reapperaing! Day or two? More like a week! Ed Martin ...Graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:19:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: PRR-Talk Lee, We now read you 5 by 5 here in the "Entertainment Capital of the World" fabulous Las Vegas Nevada! Ed Martin... member of the gang of two ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:24:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] New Athearn Stuff Barry, I lost I'd lost you guys! What's your favorite news group? p__-t___! Ed Martin... Clevelend & Pittsburgh...gateway to Ohio and the West! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:25:46 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message Joe, I'm here, I'm here! God I love this machine! Ed Martin...banned by Pacific Southwest Region N.M.R.A. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:28:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message Mr. Tee, Coming to you live from downtown Las Vegas Nevada! The city that never sleeps! Ed Martin...a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:29:24 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Test Message Al, We are back on the air! Praise the Lord! Life is good again! Ed Martin...member of the gang of two ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:45:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6a #1922 Mark, Numbers 1880-2218 first used 1901-02 for new engines built for P.R.R. Engines 1921-1929 H6a Sorry that's all I have. The fate of many of these early light 2-8-0's was a scrapper during the 1930's. Ed Martin... a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:57:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] We're Back! Jerry, Welcome buddy! Are we glad you to see you! Ed Martin...member of the gang of two ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:09:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight Car Color... Rob, I don't use either so I can't say which would be best. I think you'll enjoy your cars more if you vary the color somewhat. This gives the car more character and not everything looks the same. Have a look at a color photo of Pennsy freight cars and it's tough to find two exactly the same. Ed Martin... banned by Pacific Southwest Region N.M.R.A. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] MR comments Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 22:21:13 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01BFEABD.2838E8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry, Want to take a moment to publicly thank you for taking the time to send = your favorable comments about my Shark article to MR. As you can = imagine I was thrilled when I read them. Thanks again. PS. I actually tried to send this out last week but your computer = problems prevented me from doing so. Kris Kollar ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01BFEABD.2838E8C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jerry,
 
Want to take a moment to publicly thank you for = taking the=20 time to send your favorable comments about my Shark article to MR.  = As you=20 can imagine I was thrilled when I read them.  Thanks = again.
 
PS.  I actually tried to send this out last = week but=20 your computer problems prevented me from doing so.
 
Kris Kollar
------=_NextPart_000_0073_01BFEABD.2838E8C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] Branchline REA Reefer Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:30:14 -0400 PRR Talk Listers: In last month's MR, Branchline advertised the HO scale Pullmans and a 50 foot express reefer made for REA. Does anyone have more info. on this car and when it was built? I would imagine that this car was on passenger or mail trains including those on the PRR but what era? Thank you in advance! Ted M. Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:00:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA Reefer From: Jerry Britton On 7/11/00 9:30 AM, Andrews, Ted (Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com) wrote: > In last month's MR, Branchline advertised the HO scale Pullmans and a 50 > foot express reefer made for REA. Does anyone have more info. on this car > and when it was built? I would imagine that this car was on passenger or > mail trains including those on the PRR but what era? > > I made a post about these new reefers on the "Merchandise Announce" list a few weeks ago. Those interested in such new product announcements should join this list, which sees 1-3 posts per week. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com The Pullmans were announced almost a year ago and the first, the 8-1-2, is due in December. "Merchandise Service" has been accepting reservations since about January. There are three PRR cars in the 8-1-2 offering. There are also three PRR cars in the later 10-1-2 offering. The reefers were just posted on Branchline's site about two weeks ago. The car represents a 50' AAR "RBL" Plug Door Box. This was PRR class X-53, built in the late 1950's and early 1960's. Two PRR paint schemes are announced. There will be a total of four road numbers of each. You can order single cars or a three pack. No ETA has been set, but since there are part numbers, "Merchandise Service" is accepting advance reservations. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue Jul 11 10:17:55 2000 From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA Reefer Folks, I beleive the Branchline add said it would be the welded version, which would make it 1947 (48?). The photo they used had the very short-lived green and silver colors, which were only tried on that first batch of steel REA reefers. The next big order for steel REA reefers was ten years later, and came in a riveted version. In any event, these cars were much more common in Pennsy consists, judging from photos, than the longed-for R50 by the late 50's, certainly by the 1960's. Barry Peltier PS-I see Kadee is going to do an N scale version of the steel reefer, but don't know which version, welded or riveted.bp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:22:44 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Site. What's up (or down)? Yesterday and so far today, attempts to access the PRRT&HS site yield a message "Server does not have a DNS entry". Shades of last week! Is there some sort of e-pidemic in progress in eastern PA? Inquiring minds want to know. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:33:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA Reefer From: Jerry Britton On 7/11/00 10:17 AM, BPX29@aol.com (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > I beleive the Branchline add said it would be the welded version, which would > make it 1947 (48?). The photo they used had the very short-lived green and > silver colors, which were only tried on that first batch of steel REA reefers. > The next big order for steel REA reefers was ten years later, and came in a > riveted version. > In any event, these cars were much more common in Pennsy consists, judging > from photos, than the longed-for R50 by the late 50's, certainly by the > 1960's. Perhaps I misunderstood...the 1947 cars are not new product announcements...perhaps just missed by some modelers. The 50' AAR cars...just announced...were designed in the late 1940's but not used by the PRR until later. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:48:45 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA Reefer Ted, Judging from the road number series and the ACL paint job on the photo, these would be the ones with the overhanging roof. I can't remember off hand exactly when they were built, but it was not long before series REA 6900-7399 which was ordered out in specifications dated June 9, 1954. I'd check Roseman's book for the built dates on these. BTW, for the N scalers out there, did you notice that Micro-Trains has announced an REA express reefer also? It's due for release on August 1. It's the last series that as ordered (REA 7400-7899) in specifications dated January 16, 1956. This is a car I researched for them to produce when I used to work there. These cars would be appropriate on about any passenger train or express freight (mail train and the like). The PRR had many of them in it's trains. As a kid growing up I remember the REA terminal on the south (?) side of 30th Street Station in Philly with cars there most all the time. Chuck Friedlein "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > PRR Talk Listers: > > In last month's MR, Branchline advertised the HO scale Pullmans and a 50 > foot express reefer made for REA. Does anyone have more info. on this car > and when it was built? I would imagine that this car was on passenger or > mail trains including those on the PRR but what era? > > Thank you in advance! > > Ted M. Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue Jul 11 11:36:09 2000 From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA Reefer Jerry, I think there is a small misunderstanding. I was speaking of the REA cars, not the AAR cars. Until now, no one has made the steel REA cars in a plastic kit, far as I'm aware. Have a quick look at their ad in August MR. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:37:39 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA Reefer In a message dated 7/11/00 8:37:36 AM Central Daylight Time, Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com writes: << In last month's MR, Branchline advertised the HO scale Pullmans and a 50 foot express reefer made for REA. Does anyone have more info. on this car and when it was built? I would imagine that this car was on passenger or mail trains including those on the PRR but what era? >> The car is the 1947 welded version, identical to the resin kit from Sunshine Models. 500 cars were delivered in aluminum with a green stripe as pictured in the ad, but, like the GG1's that were painted in the silver color, oil and dirt made them look so bad that that paint scheme was abandoned quickly. The idea was that the aluminum would blend with the new Budd stainless steel streamliners. Repainting to a plain REA green (I use Japan Navy Green, thanks to a tip in a 1989 MR article by Andy Miller) with Deluxe Gold lettering, no herald, occured in 1949 (this is the scheme I painted my Sunshine kit, as I model pre-1952). The REA herald was added in 1952. The newer REA herald was applied in the 60's. Like the REA wood reefers (a common version of which is also modeled by Sunshine) and the 1958 steel riveted version , they appeared in almost any PRR train that carried significant headend equipment. The earlier paint schemes overlapped into later eras, as is typical of a situation where a fleet is repainted over time. Exception may be the aluminum version, which seemed to disappear rather quickly, at least in video documentation of the era. Like a lot of express reefers, they were used, particularly in later years, in nonreefer express applications. I don't know if they were used for mail storage, as some individual railroad steel reefers were. I am delighted to see the kit. Even though I am well satisfied with my resin kits, I would rather not build a fleet that way. Anyone have an advanced tip on price? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:41:46 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA Reefer In a message dated 7/11/00 9:56:49 AM Central Daylight Time, diehexe@uswest.net writes: << Judging from the road number series and the ACL paint job on the photo, these would be the ones with the overhanging roof. I can't remember off hand exactly when they were built, but it was not long before series REA 6900-7399 which was ordered out in specifications dated June 9, 1954. I'd check Roseman's book for the built dates on these. >> I don't know if they are the cars you are referring to, but 50 ACL cars were tacked on to the end of the 500-car REA order in 1947. They were described as identical. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Johnson" Subject: [PRR] Video Tape Sale Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:17:04 -0500 I just got a flyer from Green Frog today. They are having a 45% off sale on selected videos. Included in the list are: "The Pennsylvania RR" sale price $16.47 "Penn Central" (3 hrs) sale price $30.22 Others on sale include NYC, WM & DT&I subjects. Their phone number is 770-422-2220. Their web site is www.greenfrog.com I have the PRR and PC tapes and they are excellent. All originally shot with sharp 16mm film. Regards, Greg Johnson Regards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Branchline REA reefer Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:55:41 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFEB58.D8C98C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, now I am confused. From the posts I get a number of dates for = inclusion of this reefer in the headend of Pennsy consists. Jerry = identifies them (I believe) as class X-53 , going into Pennsy service in = the late 50's. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFEB58.D8C98C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, now I am confused. From the posts I get a number = of dates=20 for inclusion of this reefer in the headend of Pennsy consists. Jerry = identifies=20 them (I believe) as class X-53 , going into Pennsy service in the late=20 50's.
------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFEB58.D8C98C80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:15:21 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA reefer Walt, Sorry for the confusion. These proposed reefers are no kind of Pennsy cars, being REA owned. I think Jerry may have thought we were talking about the Branchline 50 ft box cars. Hope this helps? Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Branchline REA reefer Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:37:35 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFEB5E.B357EB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob, Thanks for the clarification. Guess I can "safely" run more than a = couple of those cars as headend equipment (lettered for REA) on my = future Pennsy '52 pike. BTW, is this reefer similar to the kit-bashed = 50 ft reefer which was done back a few years in MRC or MR where two (I = believe TMI) 40 fters were spliced into a 50 ft? Did 4 of them and I am = satisfied with the results. But going from memory, they were rivited, = not welded construction. Oh well. Thanks Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFEB5E.B357EB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob,
Thanks for the clarification. Guess I can "safely" = run more=20 than a couple of those cars as headend equipment (lettered for REA) on = my future=20 Pennsy  '52 pike. BTW, is this reefer similar to the kit-bashed 50 = ft=20 reefer which was done back a few years in MRC or MR where two (I believe = TMI) 40=20 fters were spliced into a 50 ft? Did 4 of them and I am satisfied with = the=20 results. But going from memory, they were rivited, not welded=20 construction. Oh well.
Thanks
Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFEB5E.B357EB80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:48:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA reefer Walt, You're in luck if your rebuilds are riveted. They represent the cars built in 1958 by General American, numbers 6900-7899. Apparently the Branchline welded cars are the ACf versions built in 1948, numbers 6100-6599, so you'll have some of each version. regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:39:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA Reefer From: Jerry Britton On 7/11/00 12:37 PM, Bobspf@aol.com at (Bobspf@aol.com) wrote: > In a message dated 7/11/00 8:37:36 AM Central Daylight Time, > Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com writes: > > << In last month's MR, Branchline advertised the HO scale Pullmans and a 50 > foot express reefer made for REA. Does anyone have more info. on this car > and when it was built? I would imagine that this car was on passenger or > mail trains including those on the PRR but what era? >> > I apologize for responding earlier without having the ad in hand. I was looking at Branchline's web site and could not find a car that met the above description. Everyone was discussing whether it was the 1947 or 1957 AAR car. It is neither! A few months back Branchline confided in me that they would be doing the 6100 series Express Reefer. That is this car, as the ad shows. I'm just surprised they publicly showed it in an ad when they have not yet done a press release, placed it on their web site, etc. While there is no ETA as of yet, you can bet it will be in the $13-15 range. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:14:51 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Branchline Exp Refers From: Fred G Rea The more I read the more confused I get. Will the Branchline exp refers be acceptable for my 1948 era? If, not what would be the earliest date. I don't care if they were PRR or REA owned, if they ran on the PRR. Thanks Fred Rea (no relation to REA, or Samuel Rea) ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:57:41 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA Reefer Barry, Your're right, no one has ever made any of these cars in plastic before in any scale. The only thing that was close to them was an attempt some decades ago in O scale with sheet steel sides nailed on wood blocks, etc., like the kits of the thirty's and forty's, and not even really close to scale. Chuck Friedlein BPX29@aol.com wrote: > Jerry, > I think there is a small misunderstanding. I was speaking of the REA cars, not the AAR cars. Until now, no one has made the steel REA cars in a plastic kit, far as I'm aware. Have a quick look at their ad in August MR. > Regards, > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 00:07:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline Exp Refers In a message dated 7/11/00 10:16:40 PM Central Daylight Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: << Will the Branchline exp refers be acceptable for my 1948 era? >> The version in the aluminum with green stripe spanned 1947-49. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:14:06 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline Exp Refers Fred, The REA 6100 series cars were built by ACF in 1947 (no month stated) according to Vic Roseman's book, but Ed Kaminski's book lists them as built in January 1948. I'd be more prone to believe Ed's history than Vic's. Chuck Friedlein Fred G Rea wrote: > The more I read the more confused I get. Will the Branchline exp refers > be acceptable for my 1948 era? If, not what would be the earliest date. > I don't care if they were PRR or REA owned, if they ran on the PRR. > > Thanks > > Fred Rea (no relation to REA, or Samuel Rea) > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:20:49 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A partial bibliography of CT1000's (long) A few days ago I asked if anyone had a 1918 CT1000. No one did, but the responses were interesting in their own right. It's well-known that CT1000's were printed in 1945 and 1923. The title pages say that 1945 supercedes 1923 and 1923 supercedes 1918. Now Pat McKinney and Dave Wartell add 1915 and 1913, 1913 superceding 1911. I have seen and read a 1900 CT1000, which superceded 1899. Mark Bej's site mentions an 1891 CR1000, which has the title "List of Stations and Sidings with Instructions...", same as the CT1000's. To summarize: 1945 1923 1918 ? Any other(s) in here? (My guess: No.) 1915 ? Any other(s) in here? (My guess: No.) 1913 1911 ? Any other(s) in here? (My guess: Yes.) 1900 1899 ? Any other(s) in here? (My guess: Yes.) Were they CT1000 or CR1000? 1891 CR1000 ? Any earlier than 1891? All of the foregoing is about the "full" CT1000. In addition, "subset" CT1000's were printed. In 1945 these were CT1000E, C, and W; covering Eastern, Central, and Western regions. I have seen a 1923 CT1000C. But the page headings in the full 1923 CT1000 speak of Eastern, Central, Northwestern and Southwestern regions. Perhaps there were 4 "subset" CT1000's in 1923 (E, C, N, & S?). Clouding the issue, Dave Wartell mentioned a 1915 CT1000D for the Northern Division. Another complication: The 1923 CT1000 supercedes the 1918 CT1000 *and* the 1913 PL506. A PL506 was offered on eBay a few weeks ago. The description there sounded like it was a Lines West CT1000. (It went for $162.50, too rich for me.) I wonder what other editions of PL506 there were, and whether or not the 1918 and 1915 CT1000'a ignored the Lines West (thus establishing a custom which is observed to this day). The 1900 CT1000 is a small book, roughly the size of a 1945 CT1000E. That's because it mentioned nothing west of Pennsylvania, and omitted several lines in Pennsylvania. I assume that is because those lines, and the whole Pennsylvania Company organization were considered to be separate from The Pennsylvania Railroad. Open questions: 1. In what years, if any, in the spans marked ? above were CT1000's printed? 2. In what years, besides 1945, 1923, and 1915 were "subset" CT1000's printed? 3. Were there 3 or 4 1923 "subsets"? 4. How many "subsets" were there in 1915, and how were they divided? 5. When did form CR1000 become form CT1000 and why? 6. Over what span of time did the Lines West print PL506? As a last gasp: Several weeks ago, someone on eBay sold a PRR book with a title something like "List of Officers Stations and Station Agents" dated 1892 (He didn't list a form number). I note that the 1900 CT1000, in the index of stations, lists the names of station agents. Perhaps the information about station agents was merged into the CR1000, creating the CT1000 and eliminating form (or leaving the "List of Officers" undiluted by mere station agents). If so, when was that done? Enough for now (perhaps more than enough). Thoughts, anyone? Further information? Anyone? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:27:38 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline Exp Refers Modern Railroads article of the time states that the first 50 cars built were for the ACL with delivery commencing 12/47. The REA cars came second and would be built at a rate of 12 per day with hopes of increasing production to 24 per day. So it is safe to assume that delivery of the REA cars was probably completed during the first quarter of 1948. Frank Brua Chuck Friedlein wrote: > Fred, > The REA 6100 series cars were built by ACF in 1947 (no month stated) > according to Vic Roseman's book, but Ed Kaminski's book lists them as built > in January 1948. I'd be more prone to believe Ed's history than Vic's. > > Chuck Friedlein > > Fred G Rea wrote: > > > The more I read the more confused I get. Will the Branchline exp refers > > be acceptable for my 1948 era? If, not what would be the earliest date. > > I don't care if they were PRR or REA owned, if they ran on the PRR. > > > > Thanks > > > > Fred Rea (no relation to REA, or Samuel Rea) > > ________________________________________________________________ > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Paul W. Schopp" Subject: Re: [PRR] A partial bibliography of CT1000's (long) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:55:11 -0400 Bob: Very interesting bibliography! The 1891 volume is actually a Form C.R. 76, the C.R. standing for Car Reporting. It covers almost all of the divisions in Pennsylvania and contains the reporting marks of all railroads interchanging cars at the point in time. In the back are rosters of all rolling stock for the companies associated with the PRR. The effective date on the title page is April 1, 1891 and there is no statement regarding superceding earlier editions. In addition, the book actually contains some pastie changes, similar to G.O. in ETTs. The volume is the same size as the 1945E edition of the CT1000. Although I assume this 1891 book is rare, I have to believe there are other copies out there besides mine. Best regards, Paul Schopp ----- Original Message ----- From: robert netzlof To: Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 7:20 AM Subject: [PRR] A partial bibliography of CT1000's (long) > A few days ago I asked if anyone had a 1918 CT1000. No > one did, but the responses were interesting in their > own right. > > It's well-known that CT1000's were printed in 1945 and > 1923. The title pages say that 1945 supercedes 1923 > and 1923 supercedes 1918. > > Now Pat McKinney and Dave Wartell add 1915 and 1913, > 1913 superceding 1911. > > I have seen and read a 1900 CT1000, which superceded > 1899. > > Mark Bej's site mentions an 1891 CR1000, which has the > title "List of Stations and Sidings with > Instructions...", same as the CT1000's. > > To summarize: > 1945 > 1923 > 1918 > ? Any other(s) in here? (My guess: No.) > 1915 > ? Any other(s) in here? (My guess: No.) > 1913 > 1911 > ? Any other(s) in here? (My guess: Yes.) > 1900 > 1899 > ? Any other(s) in here? (My guess: Yes.) > Were they CT1000 or CR1000? > 1891 CR1000 > ? Any earlier than 1891? > > All of the foregoing is about the "full" CT1000. In > addition, "subset" CT1000's were printed. In 1945 > these were CT1000E, C, and W; covering Eastern, > Central, and Western regions. > > I have seen a 1923 CT1000C. But the page headings in > the full 1923 CT1000 speak of Eastern, Central, > Northwestern and Southwestern regions. Perhaps there > were 4 "subset" CT1000's in 1923 (E, C, N, & S?). > > Clouding the issue, Dave Wartell mentioned a 1915 > CT1000D for the Northern Division. > > Another complication: The 1923 CT1000 supercedes the > 1918 CT1000 *and* the 1913 PL506. A PL506 was offered > on eBay a few weeks ago. The description there sounded > like it was a Lines West CT1000. (It went for > $162.50, too rich for me.) I wonder what other > editions of PL506 there were, and whether or not the > 1918 and 1915 CT1000'a ignored the Lines West (thus > establishing a custom which is observed to this day). > > The 1900 CT1000 is a small book, roughly the size of a > 1945 CT1000E. That's because it mentioned nothing west > of Pennsylvania, and omitted several lines in > Pennsylvania. I assume that is because those lines, > and the whole Pennsylvania Company organization were > considered to be separate from The Pennsylvania > Railroad. > > Open questions: > > 1. In what years, if any, in the spans marked ? above > were CT1000's printed? > 2. In what years, besides 1945, 1923, and 1915 were > "subset" CT1000's printed? > 3. Were there 3 or 4 1923 "subsets"? > 4. How many "subsets" were there in 1915, and how were > they divided? > 5. When did form CR1000 become form CT1000 and why? > 6. Over what span of time did the Lines West print > PL506? > > As a last gasp: > > Several weeks ago, someone on eBay sold a PRR book > with a title something like "List of Officers Stations > and Station Agents" dated 1892 (He didn't list a form > number). I note that the 1900 CT1000, in the index of > stations, lists the names of station agents. > > Perhaps the information about station agents was > merged into the CR1000, creating the CT1000 and > eliminating form (or leaving the "List of > Officers" undiluted by mere station agents). If so, > when was that done? > > Enough for now (perhaps more than enough). Thoughts, > anyone? Further information? Anyone? > > > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > --------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Paul W. Schopp" Subject: Re: [PRR] A partial bibliography of CT1000's (follow-up) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:19:00 -0400 Bob: A couple of other notes about the C.R. 76. The C.R. was issued by the Car Record Office. On the very first page of the book is the following statement: NOTICE- Examine this book carefully and commence its use with all Reports for the Car Record Office dated April 1st, 1891. I think this statement may be interpreted to preclude any earlier editions of a C.R. or C.T. type volume. But, then again, I am constantly surprised at the material coming to light regarding the PRR. Best, Paul Schopp spanky@voicenet.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:34:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline Exp Refers In a message dated 7/11/00 11:27:14 PM Central Daylight Time, diehexe@uswest.net writes: << The REA 6100 series cars were built by ACF in 1947 (no month stated) according to Vic Roseman's book, but Ed Kaminski's book lists them as built in January 1948. I'd be more prone to believe Ed's history than Vic's. >> You bring up a worthwhile modeling point, but I wouldn't beat either one of them up over a couple months. The prototype sheet from Sunshine --don't know the source but their data is usually fairly accurate--says construction began in November 1947. Roseman's book includes a pic in January 1948 of a reefer "built the month before". The Sunshine sheet has a photo of one in San Francisco in January 1948. If they were built back East (Berwick, PA?) it took a few days to get there. So, my statement that the first paint scheme spans 1947-49 I would amend today to "spans December 1947 to 1949. I have seen these referred to as 1947 models for decades and never realized they were like the "1948 Broadway"--1948 with qualifications (at least Tower View and Mountain View were delivered in first quarter of 1949. So unless a 1947 modeler was specifically modeling December 1947, the cars are too late for him, if he is particular. Glad you brought it up for clarification, Chuck. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:56:41 -0400 Subject: [PRR] REA 6100 Reefers From: Jerry Britton All this talk about REA 6100-series reefers, built in the late 1940's, let me ask this: I've pored over the "Makeup of Trains" (a.k.a. Consist Reports) for all passenger trains coming in/out of New York City as of April 1954. They list the makeup of trains, including those cars dropped/added en route. They list reefers, baggage, and mail storage cars. There's no mention of REA-owned cars. Is this not unusual? They do show interchange passenger cars from other roads, so it's not like these reports just aren't including foreign road cars...they clearly are. So, were these cars added to consists on an "as needed" basis? Would I be right or wrong to pluck a few into my 1954 model of Harrisburg? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:16:14 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Thanks for the exp refer responses From: Fred G Rea The bottom seems to be "Yes" for my era. 47-48 or 49 are close enough for me. Now of course, when in the #$%$# will they be available? Thanks guys, Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR T1 Roof Color? Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:52:53 EDT List, I know the question has been asked before but remind me what color should I paint the roof of my Bowser T1? Also how far down do I paint for a correct color break? Sam Vastano ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:06:13 -0400 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT for manufacturers, distributors, dealers From: Jerry Britton I'd like to invite the manufacturers, distributors, and dealers receiving this message to consider participation in two new mailing lists. For complete information, please visit the newly launched Model Railroad News web site at: http://www.modelrailroadnews.net The first list, MRN-Announce, is an announcement-only list through which manufacturers and distributors may announce future or newly shipping products, wholesale specials, etc., to the dealers subscribed to the list. The second list, MRN-Chat, is an open forum where manufacturers, distributors, and dealers can discuss product needs, issues in the marketplace, coordinate stock adjustments with each other, etc. Please visit the web site and then consider participating. The more that join, the better it will be for all of us. Also, please share this e-mail with others in the industry that you feel would benefit from participation. As a background note, we have been serving mailing lists for over four years. Among our offerings are the leading lists for fans of the PRR, Conrail, and Reading. ----------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, President jbritton@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. Web hosting and design http://www.dsop.com "Merchandise Service" Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:18:17 -0700 Great photos and write-up on the Russell plow and flanger; however, it's possible that the flanger was rebuilt from an X25 boxcar, but it is most definitely not an X26 (USRA SS XM) or any one of the family of X26 steel rebuilds. I can't get a good look at the underframe to make a definite determination, but the flanger is most likely an X29 rebuild. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:30:35 +0000 From: Roger Hensley Subject: RE: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars > From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" > To: > Cc: > Subject: RE: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars > Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:18:17 -0700 > Importance: Normal > Great photos and write-up on the Russell plow and flanger; however, it's > possible that the flanger was rebuilt from an X25 boxcar, but it is most > definitely not an X26 (USRA SS XM) or any one of the family of X26 steel > rebuilds. I can't get a good look at the underframe to make a definite > determination, but the flanger is most likely an X29 rebuild. Thank you. I'll check on that and see if I can get it corrected. Right is always good. :-) Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == NMRA track gauge. "Don't do trains without it." == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:53:09 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] My Layout plans (LONG) Howdy Y'all Well, the time has finally come...for me to take the plunge into a layout! As many of you know, I plan to model the Pennsylvania Railroad, in June 1944, concentrating on the area around Columbia, Pa, on the Susquehanna River. I have designed what I hope is a relatively accurate representation of the real thing, focusing on the electrified Atglen & Susquehanna (the "Low Grade"), the Columbia & Port Deposit and the Columbia branches, and the steam powered Frederick and Octoraro branches, as well as a brief appearance by the Reading Railroad's Reading & Columbia branch. The layout was designed using Abracadata's 3D Railroad Concept and Design for Macintosh (which while clearly the best of the Mac field, leaves a lot to be desired...). Please look at the web pages of the layout plan, and let me know what you think! The layout will occupy a 24' x 30' room that will be purpose built as an extension of my garage. I anticipate that most of the track will be MicroEngineering code 83 flex with MicroEngineering, Walthers/Shinohara and scratchbuilt turnouts. Since we (the LDSIG) have been discussing the "rules" here are a few I stuck to...operators look north, right is east, left is west, minimum radius on the A&S is 34", min radius all other lines 31", minimum aisles 24", most are 30" or more, maximum grades of 2%. And some rules I "broke"(?)...no reverse loops (the turntables in Oxford and Columbia are small and will only hold a 2-8-2 (L-1), and not the 2-10-0 (I-1) or 4-8-2 (M-1) that will provide some mainline power....turning these will be accomplished by a fiddle table in each staging yard), no continuous running option, catenary on most of the layout... The easiest way to describe the layout may be to give you a tour, so here goes! Entering the layout room (http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/level3.GIF) through the door in the lower left corner, the first thing that will strike the viewer will be the double track stone arch bridge at Shocks Mills, over the Susquehanna (I mean that LITERALLY as it will smack you in the face if you don't DUCK). This bridge will carry the A&S to the right into the Enola staging yard (http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/Enola.GIF). I'm not entirely happy with this yard as a great deal was sacrificed to have a turntable to turn locomotives. I may go with a straight yard, with the last 2 feet consisting of a "fiddle table" that will allow locos to be removed and turned by hand. This fiddle arrangement is planned for Thorndale and Perryville staging (above and below Enola respectively). Bearing left after ducking under the bridge (back to the big map! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/level3.GIF), you see the Columbia branch (blue) heading off up the east bank of the river (dummy tracks), and then the multi-track Marrieta Army depot, a major supply depot in WW II (which should connect back to the A&S but won't for lack of space). Continuing, we come to Kerbaugh Lake, an artificial impoundment of the Susquehanna created by a tangent section of the A&S, as well as Lake siding on the A&S, and then the beginning of Columbia Yard. Most of the major prototype tracks are present, although condensed. The red track coming off the Columbia branch and crossing both tracks of the A&S before heading out into the aisle represents the Frederick branch. Trains on this branch were either short freights, or even shorter passenger trains (2-3 cars, or doodlebugs). I plan to model 2-3 spans of the Wrightsville bridge across the Susquehanna as a removable bridge/staging, and perhaps staging can be fitted into the peninsula on the opposite side of the aisle. The Reading (green) interchanged with the Columbia branch and both will disappear into staging along the right wall with a "central ladder"(3-4 tracks, multiple turnouts off the main). Prominently featured will be COLA tower as well. As the A&S leaves Columbia, and turns onto the right wall, we come to PORT where the C&PD branch leaves the A&S to follow the Susquehanna, while the A&S slowly climbs out of the river valley. The two lines parallel each other for a number of miles, and the signature location of the entire layout occurs when the two lines must cross Conestoga Creek at Safe Harbor (http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/SafeHarbor.JPEG). Here the A&S is 150' above the river on a curving trestle while the C&PD crosses on a steel deck bridge. Further complicating the picture is the tail of the switchback serving the hydro dam at Safe Harbor and the siding off the passing track to a coal loader which pass under BOTH lines (3 levels of RR and its prototypical!) By the way, that coal was dredged off the bottom of the Susquehanna and burned further downstream at Holtwood. Following around to the very end of the peninsula, the C&PD will make a transition to a lower deck while the A&S continues to climb. Passing through Martic Forge, the A&S high bridge over Pequa Creek (http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/MarticForge.JPEG) may be modeled although that will cramp the lower deck. Still rising, the A&S will pass SMITH tower (just HAD to model that one!) a part-time block station, and reach the highest point, beginning a descent back to the right wall of the room and through PARK interlocking (with the passenger main tracks coming in from the left) and finally ending up in Thorndale yard (visible staging). To enhance the effect of visible staging, you may notice a black rectangle halfway down the yard. This is the Thorndale coal dock, similar to Denholm, which remained operational in the early 40's in spite of the electrification of the lines. Train crews of steam powered freights entering the staging yard will be required to spot their power appropriately. Additionally, helpers (steam and electric) for the climb up from Columbia will be based here. Returning to the C&PD, either a direct transition, or a single loop helix will make the transition to the lower deck (http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/level2.GIF). Shortly we come to Holtwood, site of another hydro dam, but also of a coal fired electric plant designed to burn coal dredged from the bottom of the river here and at Safe Harbor. The plant was serviced by a "fireless cooker", and is reported to have had narrow gauge and dual gauge track as well. Shortly after Holtwood, the track passes through two rock tunnels (Williams and Frazer's) with sheer rock walls and slide fences boardering the track and then crosses over the Octoraro branch on a concrete arch bridge, while crossing Octoraro Creek. The Octoraro branch joins the C&PD at Rock and the C&PD swings around into staging (Perryville) against the bottom wall. Train length on the Octoraro is quite short, and so long staging tracks are not necessary. Therefore some of the tracks may be interconnected by crossovers at various points allowing flexible serial staging off of a thoroughfare track. Returning to Rock, we will follow the Octoraro branch as it descends then passes underneath the C&PD while crossing the Octoraro Creek (http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/level1.GIF). The rails will disappear momentarily behind a hill and appear below the C&PD on a third deck (the third deck is only present on the left and top sides of the peninsula). Meandering through the woods and climbing out of the valley, we come to Grove where a siding for troop trains leads to the Bainbridge Naval Training Center (hidden). In addition, sidings serve a team track and a cannery. Continuing along, the next town is Rising Sun where locally served businesses include a coal tipple, creamery, and local manufacturing. A siding in Sylmar (pennSYLvania/MARyland state line) serves an oil company while sidings in Nottingham serve a team track, supply company and a cannery. Oxford represents the mid point of this branch (which ultimately connected to the West Chester branch at Wawa), and is chock full of action including locomotive service facilities (coal, water and an 80' armstrong turntable). Other businesses include lumber, cabinets, oil, packing house, dairy, and hay/grain. Leaving Oxford, the trains will round a bend, pass over the spindly Elkview trestle, and terminate in staging (Wawa/Phila). This will give me the best of many worlds...heavy double track mainline action, with helpers on the A&S, single track main action on the C&PD, switching in the Columbia yard, and Marietta, and a bucolic local division, complete with 2 car passenger trains and reefers full of mushrooms on the Octararo Branch. Well, that wraps it up for this post Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:16:31 -0400 From: "Robert L. Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] A partial bibliography of CT1000's (follow-up) Greetings to Paul, Bob and the list, There were earlier issues of C.R. Form 76 than April 1st, 1891. I have photocopies of a few pages giving car numbers, no complete issues, from the following: July 1st, 1879 - no form number indicated, but pages are same size as C.R. Form 76 Aug. 1, 1882 Form 76 CR [sic] - hand written on copy 1887 C.R. Form 76 - hand written on copy 1888 C.R.-Form 76 - have copy of title page of this one. It lists: Pennsylvania Railroad Company; Northern Central Railway; Baltimore & Potomac Railroad; Alexandria & Fredericksburg Railway; Philadelphia, Wilmington & Baltimore Railroad; Camden & Atlantic Railroad; and West Jersey Railroad. The full title is impressive for length and variety of typography (not shown here), "Instructions for Making Reports to the Car Record Office, Abbreviations to be Used when Reporting Cars, Numbers and Names of Stations and Sidings; Alphabetical List of Stations and Sidings, with Location and Names of Agents; List of Supervisors, Train-Masters and Yard-Masters, with Location and Extent of Jurisdiction; also, Alphabetical List of Scales, with Names of Weighmasters, and List of Numbers and Classification of Cars." The latter, unfortunately, only gives car types (box, flat, etc.), not the class designations (Xa, Fa, etc.). 1895 CR 76 - hand written on copy I also have a photocopy of the title page and car pages from a C.T. 1000 taking effect July 1st, 1901, superseding issue of July 1st, 1900. So, it looks like the C.R. 76 and C.T. 1000 lists were issued annually in the early days. I wonder if the person who bought the PL506 could be persuaded to provide any information about it? Also, I seem to remember a pack of update pages for the 1945 C.T. 1000 dated 1946. Can anybody confirm the issuance of updates? Was there a C.T. 1000 after 1945? If updates were issued, how long was that done? Bob Johnson "Paul W. Schopp" wrote: > A couple of other notes about the C.R. 76. The C.R. was issued > by the Car Record Office. On the very first page of the book is > the following statement: > > NOTICE- > Examine this book carefully and commence its use with all Reports > for the Car Record Office dated April 1st, 1891. > > I think this statement may be interpreted to preclude any earlier > editions of a C.R. or C.T. type volume. But, then again, I am > constantly surprised at the material coming to light regarding > the PRR. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Paul W. Schopp" Subject: [PRR] A partial bibliography of CT1000's (follow-up) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:40:22 -0400 Bob Johnson: Fascinating!! No wonder they call it "the standard railroad of the world"!!!!!! I am amazed (but I shouldn't be) that the C.R. 76 extends back to 1879. This railroad was bureaucratically minded from an early day! I just wish I could find one in the nineteenth century that covers New Jersey trackage! Thanks for this information! Best, Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Johnson To: Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] A partial bibliography of CT1000's (follow-up) > Greetings to Paul, Bob and the list, > > There were earlier issues of C.R. Form 76 than April 1st, 1891. > I have photocopies of a few pages giving car numbers, no complete > issues, from the following: > > July 1st, 1879 - no form number indicated, but pages are same > size as C.R. Form 76 > > Aug. 1, 1882 Form 76 CR [sic] - hand written on copy > > 1887 C.R. Form 76 - hand written on copy > > 1888 C.R.-Form 76 - have copy of title page of this one. It > lists: > Pennsylvania Railroad Company; Northern Central Railway; > Baltimore & Potomac Railroad; Alexandria & Fredericksburg Railway; > Philadelphia, Wilmington & Baltimore Railroad; Camden & Atlantic Railroad; > and West Jersey Railroad. The full title is impressive for length and > variety of typography (not shown here), "Instructions for Making Reports > to the Car Record Office, Abbreviations to be Used when Reporting Cars, > Numbers and Names of Stations and Sidings; Alphabetical List of Stations > and Sidings, with Location and Names of Agents; List of Supervisors, > Train-Masters and Yard-Masters, with Location and Extent of > Jurisdiction; also, Alphabetical List of Scales, with Names of > Weighmasters, and List of Numbers and Classification of Cars." > The latter, unfortunately, only gives car types (box, flat, etc.), > not the class designations (Xa, Fa, etc.). > > 1895 CR 76 - hand written on copy > > I also have a photocopy of the title page and car pages from a > C.T. 1000 taking effect July 1st, 1901, superseding issue of July 1st, > 1900. So, it looks like the C.R. 76 and C.T. 1000 lists were issued > annually in the early days. > > I wonder if the person who bought the PL506 could be persuaded > to provide any information about it? > Also, I seem to remember a pack of update pages for the 1945 > C.T. 1000 dated 1946. Can anybody confirm the issuance of updates? Was > there a C.T. 1000 after 1945? If updates were issued, how long was > that done? > > Bob Johnson > > > "Paul W. Schopp" wrote: > > > > A couple of other notes about the C.R. 76. The C.R. was > > issued by the Car Record Office. On the very first page of the book > > is the following statement: > > > > NOTICE- > > Examine this book carefully and commence its use with all > > Reports for the Car Record Office dated April 1st, 1891. > > > > I think this statement may be interpreted to preclude any > > earlier editions of a C.R. or C.T. type volume. But, then again, I > > am constantly surprised at the material coming to light > > regarding > > the PRR. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:08:48 -0700 Ben Hom wrote: > Great photos and write-up on the Russell plow and flanger; however, it's > possible that the flanger was rebuilt from an X25 boxcar, but it is most > definitely not an X26 (USRA SS XM) or any one of the family of X26 steel > rebuilds. I can't get a good look at the underframe to make a definite > determination, but the flanger is most likely an X29 rebuild. Then Roger Hensley wrote: Thinking about it, what would you look for on the underframe that would determine it's original class? Class X25 boxcars have a very heavy fishbelly center sill inherited from the class X23 design. This is a common feature shared by many early steel boxcars, as engineers carried over many design features from earlier wooden and single sheathed designs before discovering that the steel sides of a boxcar add rigidity to the car, making the heavy underframe necessary. Other spotting features of class X25 include a slightly different version of the flat ends found on early X29's and a left-opening door. The flanger rebuild eliminated the door, and I can't pick out the differences (mainly in the rivet pattern) on the end, so the underframe is what I'd base my call on. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:41:38 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR T1 Roof Color? Sam, list, Paint the roof the same color you paint the boiler. PRR's T1 class did not get the reddish cab roofs that classes up to and including the M1a got. The tender deck should remain red (whatever variation thereof that you feel comfortable with). I painted my Bowser T1 with Polly Scale's Grimy black. In my lighting conditions, a Dark Green Locomotive Enamel colored engine disappears. Naturally, paint your new duplex whatever shade of DGLE you're comfortable with. My T1 went together pretty well. How was your building experience? Doug Sam Vastano wrote: > List, > > I know the question has been asked before but remind me what color should I > paint the roof of my Bowser T1? Also how far down do I paint for a correct > color break? > > Sam Vastano > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:11:57 +0000 Subject: RE: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars > From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" > To: > Cc: > Subject: RE: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars > Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:08:48 -0700 > Class X25 boxcars have a very heavy fishbelly center sill > inherited from the class X23 design. This is a common feature > shared by many early steel boxcars, as engineers carried over many > design features from earlier wooden and single sheathed designs > before discovering that the steel sides of a boxcar add rigidity >to the car, making the heavy underframe necessary. There is no fishbelly center sill. > Other spotting features of class X25 include a slightly different > version of the flat ends found on early X29's and a left-opening > door. The flanger rebuild eliminated the door, and I can't pick > out the differences (mainly in the rivet pattern) on the end, so > the underframe is what I'd base my call on. And, doing some homework on build dates, the X25 should have been replaced by the X29 by the time this car was built in January 1925. Was the X26 a single sheath box? If so, that probably eliminates that. X29 looks better all the time. Roger Roger Hensley rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:12 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] REA 6100 Reefers Jerry you wrote: >>All this talk about REA 6100-series reefers, built in the late 1940's, let me ask this: I've pored over the "Makeup of Trains" (a.k.a. Consist Reports) for all passenger trains coming in/out of New York City as of April 1954. They list the makeup of trains, including those cars dropped/added en route. They list reefers, baggage, and mail storage cars. There's no mention of REA-owned cars. Is this not unusual?<< Jerry, not specficly. The PRR's car management could have used these cars seamlessly just as if they were Company equipment, it just meant that the PRR would have to pay PREDIEM to the car owner and the REA didn't owwn any trackage so they could apply one of their cars for any move calling for an express car. Just like a "free runner" boxcar in in PERDIEM service. Remember the Railbox slogan "NEXT ROAD ANY LOAD." The idea was to keep these cars into two way haul, hopefully with out "triangulation." This is also why you saw "foreign" cars in circulation on the PRR. "Use them, okay,Just pay me." >>They do show interchange passenger cars from other roads, so it's not like these reports just aren't including foreign road cars...they clearly are.<< Yes, but nothing says a Mail car from the New Haven at Boston destined for St. Louis had to be a New Haven car and it often would not be as the railroad didn't want the PERDIEM exchange so they would apply their own equipmwnt to avoid it. Much better for both parties to agree to pay the "long haul" road the Prediem on a "short haul" move, i.e., a PRR car loaded in Boston (on the NH) interchanging in NYC to the PRR and the "long haul" was prediem free on the PRR with a company ownd/leased car. The Routing might look like (NYNH&H-NYC-PRR)on the bill of lading. >>So, were these cars added to consists on an "as needed" basis? Would I be right or wrong to pluck a few into my 1954 model of Harrisburg?<< This would depend, if there was a bumper crop of California Strawberries, yes. Strawberries have a short shelf life and require a fast haul, Oranges no from California or Florida, they would move in frieght service. Pharmaceuticals, such as the Polio(myelitis) vacine, yes, it need refridgerated and once the vacine was discovered manufactures rushed teh vacine to areas nation wide. So, I would say these cars would be perfect for any area. I would imagine in "off season" yes these cars would haul mail, but if you were a car applicator you would elect not to use perdiem equipment in favor of company owned/leased equipment. But remember, "Don't Stand Me Still" was a reminder to the shipper to empty and release equipment quickly as the nation was experiencing a major "car shortage" as older cars were being banned from interchange service due to age restrictions. I know that in our business (CASCADE WAREHOUSE) we will use Railroad equipment ONLY when our own equipment goes "short." The Railroads pay us prediem for our crs on their lines in both directions loaded and empty. Hope this helps... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:35:13 -0700 Roger Hensley wrote: Was the X26 a single sheath box? If so, that probably eliminates that. X29 looks better all the time. Class X26 was the Pennsy's allocation of USRA single sheathed boxcars. Many were rebuilt to all steel cars in sub-classes to X26F, which at first glance resemble 1937/1944 AAR boxcars, but retained the original underframes and ends. Prominent spotting features of the rebuilt cars are the original ends modified for a wider and taller car body and an "underset" side sill where the new carbody joined the original underframe. The rebuilt cars do not resemble an original X29 (although they do resemble X29 rebuilds, but that opens another kettle of fish). X29 looks better all the time. Agreed - there are pictures of other converted X29 flangers in the Morning Sun PRR Color Guides. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:39:22 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Subject: [PRR] Re: Branchline REA Reefer [PRR] BPX29@aol.com wrote on 0/0/04 12:00 am: >PS-I see Kadee is going to do an N scale version of the steel >reefer, but don't know which version, welded or riveted. Riveted, curse the luck. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:20:07 -0700 Specifically, the X29 flanger photo can be found on page 124 of Pennsy Color Guide Vol 1. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 04:03:54 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Partial bibliography of CT1000's, 1st revision More information than yesterday yet still some gaps. Year issued: 1945 1923 1918 ? 1915 See note 1 1913 See note 1 1911 ? 1901 See note 2 1900 1899 CT1000 in and after 1899 ? 1891 See note 3 CR76 in and before 1891 ? 1888 See note 2 1887 See note 2 ? 1882 See note 2 ? 1879 See note 2 ? Any earlier than 1879? 1) Pat McKinney checked the title page of his 1915 CT1000 and reported that it superceded the 1913 edition. 2) Bob Johnson listed numerous editions of CR76, and reported that the 1901 CT1000 supercedes 1900. (This from photocopies of parts of the books.) 3) Paul Schopp pointed out that the "CR1000" is really Form CR76. (He should know, he's the guy who told Mark about it in the first place.) Comments: Bob Johnson reported the full (66 word) title of the 1888 CR76. Based on that, it seems that by 1900 all those lists were in the CT1000. (Station agents, weigh-masters, yard-masters, locations of scales, on and on.) He said he thought he had seen a 1946 update for the 1945 CT1000, and wondered if there were more. I just yesterday day sent money for "1945 CT1000 with Supplement 1". Stay tuned. He wondered if "the fellow who bought the PL506" could be approached to give some information about the book. I went straightway to eBay but alas, could not find the record of that sale. I think it has been purged due to age. I checked a copy of "List of Reportable Locations" Form CT4001, June 1, 1964; and found no statement about superceding anything. However the preface says that it is to be used for all reports submitted to the Car Movement Reporting System, so it seems that by 1964, the CT1000 was dead. Open questions: 1. In what years, if any, in the spans marked ? above were CT1000's or CR76's printed? 2. In what years, besides 1945, 1923, and 1915 were "subset" CT1000's printed? 3. Were there 3 or 4 1923 "subsets"? 4. How many "subsets" were there in 1915, and how were they divided? 5. When was Form CR76 replaced by Form CT1000? 6. Over what span of time did the Lines West print PL506 (or equivalent)? 7. How many supplements to the 1945 CT1000 were issued and in what years? Zooks! More open questions than yesterday. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR T1 Roof Color? Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:21:58 EDT Doug & list, Thank you for your input about the roof color. As for the assembly process, I contemplated how to get rid of those 2 ugly screws on the top of the boiler for quite some time. But I could never figure out how to eliminate them completely so I gave in and did it the Bowser way. I did eliminate the gap between the 2 frames by inserting a piece of brass sheet hooked to the back motor assembly. The brass sheet I bent into a C shape it covers the gap quite nicely. it is just wide enough to let the front motor swivel. Sam >From: "doug.kisala" >To: Sam Vastano , "prr-talk@dsop.com" > >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR T1 Roof Color? >Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:41:38 -0500 > >Sam, list, > >Paint the roof the same color you paint the boiler. PRR's T1 class did not >get >the reddish cab roofs that classes up to and including the M1a got. The >tender >deck should remain red (whatever variation thereof that you feel >comfortable >with). I painted my Bowser T1 with Polly Scale's Grimy black. In my >lighting >conditions, a Dark Green Locomotive Enamel colored engine disappears. >Naturally, paint your new duplex whatever shade of DGLE you're comfortable >with. > >My T1 went together pretty well. How was your building experience? > >Doug > >Sam Vastano wrote: > > > List, > > > > I know the question has been asked before but remind me what color >should I > > paint the roof of my Bowser T1? Also how far down do I paint for a >correct > > color break? > > > > Sam Vastano > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Trombone Man" Subject: [PRR] Allegheny Valley Branch Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:01:36 -0400 Does anyone know where I could find track charts for the Allegheny Valley Branch in Armstrong County, PA? An acquaintance is considering forming a model railroad club in Ford City and is looking for any information he can find. Thank you in advance. Dennis F. Cramer--Teacher-Trombonist-Historian-Conductor www.geocities.com/armconband ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:13:25 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] GP-35's Which HO model most closely represents the PRR version? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:09:13 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Please Check Your Links!!! From: Jerry Britton For you folks with links to "Keystone Crossings" from your web sites...please check your links!!! The correct URL is http://kc.pennsyrr.com Apparently a lot of sites still have the old one, which has been out of service for almost two years. The old one was http://prr.dsop.com If you have the old link, please update it!!! Also, if you don't have a link to my site, would you please add one? Peer links factor heavily in a site's ranking on Google Search, where my site, though larger than most, still shows up at #23 (when searching for "Pennsylvania Railroad"). If you haven't tried Google Search, you should. It's extremely effective, especially with its "I Feel Lucky" button! See http://www.google.com. "Keystone Crossings" currently shows up at #2 on Fast Search (a.k.a. All The Web), #2 on Lycos, #4 on Alta Vista (basic search), and #18 on Northern Light. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:32:08 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Seeking 12/52 issue of The Pennsy magazine Greetings to Jerry and the List: If anyone has one for sale, I'm looking to buy the December 1952 issue of The Pennsy magazine. Cover shows kid with Christmas tree train (Lionel S2 turbine). Please contact me off-list. Thanks. Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:05:52 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline REA reefer Walt, It was my "15 minutes of fame". The only article of mine MR ever published and it was is 87. I have been running 5 of them for over a decade now, but with the publication of Vic Roseman's REA book, I began to realize all the inaccuracies in the model I produced. I an anxiously awaiting the real thing from Branchline. -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== > Walt Prusick wrote: > > Bob, > Thanks for the clarification. Guess I can "safely" run more than a > couple of those cars as headend equipment (lettered for REA) on my > future Pennsy '52 pike. BTW, is this reefer similar to the kit-bashed > 50 ft reefer which was done back a few years in MRC or MR where two (I > believe TMI) 40 fters were spliced into a 50 ft? Did 4 of them and I > am satisfied with the results. But going from memory, they were > rivited, not welded construction. Oh well. > Thanks > Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:45:57 -0400 From: "Robert L. Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] A partial bibliography of CT1000's (follow-up) Paul, I'm a little surprized that your 1891 CR 76 doesn't contain information on the trackage in New Jersey. As I mentioned, I don't have any of the stations and sidings pages from the CR 76 lists, but the cover of the 1888 issue shows "Camden & Atlantic Railroad" and "West Jersey Railroad". I assumed that their trackage was included in the listings. Also, note that I'm just guessing that the 1879 listing was a CR 76. It might have been called something else. Bob Johnson "Paul W. Schopp" wrote: > Fascinating!! No wonder they call it "the standard railroad of > the world"!!!!!! I am amazed (but I shouldn't be) that the C.R. > 76 extends back to 1879. This railroad was bureaucratically > minded from an early day! I just wish I could find one in the > nineteenth century that covers New Jersey trackage! > > Thanks for this information! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:52:20 -0400 From: "Robert L. Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Partial bibliography of CT1000's, 1st revision Bob, You may want to add the 1895 CR 76, as that partly fills the gap between CR 76 and CT 1000. Also, you might want to put a question mark on the 1879 issue, since I have no proof that it was a CR 76. It might have been called something else. Bob Johnson robert netzlof wrote: > > More information than yesterday yet still some gaps. > > Year issued: > 1945 > 1923 > 1918 > ? > 1915 See note 1 > 1913 See note 1 > 1911 > ? > 1901 See note 2 > 1900 > 1899 CT1000 in and after 1899 > ? > 1891 See note 3 CR76 in and before 1891 > ? > 1888 See note 2 > 1887 See note 2 > ? > 1882 See note 2 > ? > 1879 See note 2 > ? Any earlier than 1879? > > 1) Pat McKinney checked the title page of his 1915 > CT1000 and reported that it superceded the 1913 > edition. > > 2) Bob Johnson listed numerous editions of CR76, and > reported that the 1901 CT1000 supercedes 1900. (This > from photocopies of parts of the books.) > > 3) Paul Schopp pointed out that the "CR1000" is really > Form CR76. (He should know, he's the guy who told Mark > about it in the first place.) > > Comments: > > Bob Johnson reported the full (66 word) title of the > 1888 CR76. Based on that, it seems that by 1900 all > those lists were in the CT1000. (Station agents, > weigh-masters, yard-masters, locations of scales, on > and on.) > > He said he thought he had seen a 1946 update for the > 1945 CT1000, and wondered if there were more. I just > yesterday day sent money for "1945 CT1000 with > Supplement 1". Stay tuned. > > He wondered if "the fellow who bought the PL506" could > be approached to give some information about the book. > I went straightway to eBay but alas, could not find > the record of that sale. I think it has been purged > due to age. > > I checked a copy of "List of Reportable Locations" > Form CT4001, June 1, 1964; and found no statement > about superceding anything. However the preface says > that it is to be used for all reports submitted to the > Car Movement Reporting System, so it seems that by > 1964, the CT1000 was dead. > > Open questions: > > 1. In what years, if any, in the spans marked ? above > were CT1000's or CR76's printed? > 2. In what years, besides 1945, 1923, and 1915 were > "subset" CT1000's printed? > 3. Were there 3 or 4 1923 "subsets"? > 4. How many "subsets" were there in 1915, and how were > they divided? > 5. When was Form CR76 replaced by Form CT1000? > 6. Over what span of time did the Lines West print > PL506 (or equivalent)? > 7. How many supplements to the 1945 CT1000 were issued > and in what years? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:28:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] Correct hoppers for era? Dear PRR Fans: I know that a few months ago there was a discussion of PRR hoppers, but I do not know if these questions were answered. I'm modeling the Weirton, WV - Steubenville, OH area from 1946-1957 in O gauge (3-rail). The primary industry of interest (to me anyway) in the area is Weirton Steel. My questions are: 1) What PRR hoppers would have dominated coal trains for that era? (My guess is the H21, but I'm not really sure.) 2) What color were they? (My understanding is that black didn't really "arrive at the PRR" until the 60's) 3) Anybody know of any 3-rail company that makes them? I'm also more than willing to do my own research. Any suggestions where to start? Many thanks, George Pandelios PS. Check out a hot metal car (not by MTH ;^) doing its job under Weirton Steel's No. 4 blast furnace earlier this year. http://hometown.aol.com/gpandelios/myhomepage/collection.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] Correct hoppers for era? Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:57:49 +1000 George, I suggest you check out the new John Teichmoeller (I think thats how it is spelt, my apologies to John if I got it wrong) book soon to be released. I think it is an updated version of the excellent articles by John that were in either Model Railroading in 1993. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Correct hoppers for era? Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 00:58:54 -0700 George Pandelios wrote: I know that a few months ago there was a discussion of PRR hoppers, but I do not know if these questions were answered. I'm modeling the Weirton, WV - Steubenville, OH area from 1946-1957 in O gauge (3-rail). The primary industry of interest (to me anyway) in the area is Weirton Steel. My questions are: 1) What PRR hoppers would have dominated coal trains for that era? (My guess is the H21, but I'm not really sure.) Statistically, the big three during this time period are classes H21, GLa, and GLc/GLca. 1957 is a good cutoff date for PRR hoppers, as the postwar H21 replacement program didn't really get going until 1959 with the introduction of class H39. To identify the specific mix of cars in your territory is a little more work - old car lists and time spent with a magnifying glass over yard and train photos are a place to start to build this picture. 2) What color were they? (My understanding is that black didn't really "arrive at the PRR" until the 60's) Hopper cars were painted freight car color, with the Circle Keystone (CK) scheme used to February 1954, the Shadow Keystone scheme with "calendar" numerals (SK1a) from February 1954 - early 1955, and the Shadow Keystone scheme with Roman numerals at the end of your time period. Black cars started to appear with newly delivered cars after March 1957. 3) Anybody know of any 3-rail company that makes them? I'm not a 1/4" scale guy, but I'd probably use a USRA twin as the basis for conversion to a fleet of GLa's. As for H21's and GLc/GLca's, I'm out of ideas for O scale. (I do admit to envying the great Pennsy offering from MTH, wishing we'd see more of the sort in HO). I'm also more than willing to do my own research. Any suggestions where to start? John Teichmoeller's upcoming book is a good place to start - his series of articles was published in Model Railroading (the guys from Denver, not Wisconsin) starting in February 1993. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:08:51 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Correct hoppers for era? The closest data I have is for October 1958. The PRR open hopper roster included the following at that time: H21(all subclasses) 28021 GLA 20910 GLCA 200 H2A 2000 (leased from N&W) H25 1996 H31 (all subclasses) 1191 H35 1998 H36 700 H37 450 H37A 1250 H37B 640 The H37 classes were the last open hoppers built with red freight car color paint. The H39 (first constructed in 1959) was outshopped in black. If I remember correctly the change from red to black open hopper began in 1957 (that may be incorrect as my reference materials are all at home). Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] REA 6100 Reefers Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:48:04 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 12 Jul, Jerry Britton wrote: > All this talk about REA 6100-series reefers, built in the late 1940's, let > me ask this: > > I've pored over the "Makeup of Trains" (a.k.a. Consist Reports) for all > passenger trains coming in/out of New York City as of April 1954. They list > the makeup of trains, including those cars dropped/added en route. They list > reefers, baggage, and mail storage cars. > > There's no mention of REA-owned cars. Is this not unusual? Huh? There was an REA building at Sunnyside; there was intensive REA traffic through NYP. I have pictures that I cannot find right now that show REA cars in the open pit at Penn Station. "Railway Express", Roseman: The traffic-flow diagram on page 10 shows several cars added at NYP. Page 67 shows two REA ex-troop sleepers in Sunnyside. "Trains of the Northeast Corridor", Nelligan and Hartley: Page 48 shows Mail and express train #17 on the Jersey meadows embankment with two steel REA reefers in tow. Page 55, there's a shot of a train of Congo cars led by one each wooden and steel REA reefer. The GG1 is single wide stripe, but the photo is otherwise undated. The other cars certainly have dating clues. "Pennsy Streamliners", Welsh: Page 85 shows what might be several REA reefers in the front of the Manhattan Limited at Harrisburg in 1952. Page 137 shows the Gotham Limited in 1953, location unspecified but in unelectrified four-track rural territory, with a long string of head-end, which *might* include an REA reefer. Page 153 shows the Manhattan Limited westbound at Duncannon in 1965 with an REA reefer third in line. Pennsy Electric Years, Volkmer: Page 10 shows at least one REA car in Penn Station. Page 76 shows a broadside view of an REA steel reefer at Bergen. Page 81 shows several REA reefers at Elmora Tower, Elizabeth NJ. > Would I be right or wrong to pluck a few into my 1954 model of Harrisburg? You would be right. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DATSMan@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:05:31 EDT Subject: [PRR] Decals wanted I am looking for HO decals for: -- 100 ton "Yellow Ball" hoppers -- red square "radio" sign for diesels Any ideas? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 23:02:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Decals wanted In a message dated 7/14/00 1:16:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time, DATSMan@aol.com writes: << -- red square "radio" sign for diesels >> I am in desperate need of these as well. Stuart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:57:29 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Bridge burns Today's NY Times has a story and picture about a fire Friday on the Passaic River drawbridge of the Passaic & Harsimus Branch (the Newark, N.J. freight bypass). This bridge is pretty inaccessible, I would guess, to railfans; it is located almost under the New Jersey Turnpike. PRR and Conrail call the interlocking "Karny;" to mariners it is known as the "Point No Point Draw." >From the story, it appears to have been a major blaze, taking several hours and a fireboat to bring under control, about 7 PM. Funny, I drove right by it on US 1-9 about 7:30, not suspecting anything was amiss! The story says freights will be rerouted until damage can be assessed. Reroutes I guess would either be via Greenville, or on the passenger main through Newark Penn Station. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 08:11:44 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] Teichmoller Hi, I heard Teichmoller's book being mentioned again. Anybody know the latest on when it's going to be out? Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 08:13:09 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] decals Stu and all, Didn't the Middle Division have the "radio" decals? Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: [PRR] Re: hats Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 15:18:23 -0400 Hank; Too bad about the lack of replies. I vaguely remember an article in the PRRT&HS publication the "Keystone" about hats, or maybe an "Information Exchange" reply. If you do not receive a note, either way about the hats, from me by Friday, July 21st, please remind me. I have to go to Indianapolis from Mid Michigan early in the week. I'll try to remember when I get back, Wednesday or Thursday. BTW: In the mid '80's I bought a couple of Milwaukee Road hats and hat badges from a company in Chicago. Both hats were made by Carlson and Company. One listed an address as 325 Jackson and the other address was 9 South Clinton Street. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Weldon Greiger" Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 11:33 PM Subject: hats > > Hi... > > To date no one except you has responded to my request. > I guess i'll have to find the info some other way. > Sorry. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:18:06 EDT Subject: [PRR] Decals, O-Guage (1/48 scale), Middle Division...help! Gentlemen, I am looking for a source to purchase Middle Division Decals. I am interested in the Shadow Keystone set for Cabin Cars. Project under way decals needed very soon. Please help. Thank you all in advance, Ed Martin...a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: Re: [PRR] Decals, O-Guage (1/48 scale), Middle Division...help! Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 17:14:43 -0400 ED: Try P&D Hobbies in Michigan. 810-296-6116 BTW: Is Middle Division still in business?? All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 4:18 PM Subject: [PRR] Decals, O-Guage (1/48 scale), Middle Division...help! > Gentlemen, > > I am looking for a source to purchase Middle Division Decals. I am ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: [PRR] Quick trip to Indianapolis and Terre Haute, IND Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 17:41:05 -0400 Group: I have about 6 hours of daylight on this Tuesday to do some railfanning. ANY DON'T MISS!!! PRR or Interurban locations??? Thanks for any info!!! All the best to you and yours Weldon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark T. Evans" Subject: Re: [PRR] decals Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 14:42:14 -0700 Gentlemen, Try Raritan Bay Hobbies for PRR "Radio" decals (set PRR-1): http://www.raritanbayhobbies.com/hoscalcusdec.html Also, try D&S Hobbies for Middle Division decals: http://www.onerrave.com/ Enjoy! Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Bagrash" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 8:13 AM Subject: [PRR] decals > Stu and all, > > Didn't the Middle Division have the "radio" decals? > > Frank ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jeff Knorek" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: hats Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 17:56:59 -0400 I used to get *fitted* Kromer Caps at the local working man's clothing store. They were produced by Key. I go through them like most guys go through socks. Now, unfortunatly, Key only makes the Gen-X kind with that crummy plastic band that snaps in the back. >sigh< Jeff Knorek > Hank; Too bad about the lack of replies. > > I vaguely remember an article in the PRRT&HS publication the "Keystone" > about hats, or maybe an "Information Exchange" reply ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 08:25:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Quick trip to Indianapolis and Terre Haute, IND From: "E.J. Caylor" Amo, IN along the old PRR St. Louis Main, has an THI&E substation that has been reused as the office for Amo Feed & Grain. It still looks good. E.J. Caylor Webmaster: Central Indiana Railroad Information Network http://members.tripod.com/Caylorman/rail.htm Located at MP 19 on the CSX St. Louis Line, or MP 120 on the CSX Lafayette Sub. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 09:28:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] praise Folks - Have you seen this months issue of Mainline Modeler? I must admit that after reading Alan Armitage's article "Recollections" I was grinning from ear to ear. I've been there, done that and Al's recollections have to leave you smiling. How many of you have ever found yourself in the same position. People thought John & I were nuts when we were measuring distances from the station to the track and other dimensions. We didn't think it was odd just because it was snowing. The scuttlebutt section even mentioned Old John and I'd like to add that Greg knows that there was more than one person involved in the tender project and I would like to thank all of you for the pictures, information and advice and especially Steve, for his confidence. Mainline Modeler published the original Wilmington Station drawings. Greg Martin is doing a great job with his scuttlebutt column keeping us advised on what's happening in the industry and in my opinion is an asset to our hobby. So if you don't read Mainline Modeler you're missing some good stuff. That's my 2 cents for today. Dayna ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Evan Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Correct hoppers for era? Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:57:08 -0400 George, A friend of mine gave me a copy of directions that he got at a kitbashing seminar for building an O scale H21 hopper from two Weaver 2 bay hoppers. If you or anyone else is interested, I could scan and post them on the web. It is only 2 pages. Cheers, Evan Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of GPandelios@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 11:29 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Correct hoppers for era? Dear PRR Fans: 3) Anybody know of any 3-rail company that makes them? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:28:56 EDT Subject: [PRR] Ore cars Did B&LE ore cars ever make it to the Greenwich ore piers? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:39:28 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] things i saw on a former PRR line. Hello you all... On a trip up and back to visit with family i saw this off of RTE 301 in Maryland. Off of U.S. 301 between La Plata and St. Charles Maryland were about 20 coaches less than a 1/4 mile off the road. They are pretty easy to find as ,as you go south on RTE 301 there are only two rail crossings on all of RTE 301. This is the southern most of the two. There on the right side of 301 heading south.These appeared to be late 40's -early 50's mainline coaches. The railroad that runs in Southern Maryland is the former PRR Popes Creek branch,which is now NS. This is a lightly used line,but it owes its existance for its entire lenth to a large Power plant on the Potomac river (which can be seen from the RTE 301 "Harry Nice" Potomac River Bridge). Passenger service on the Popes Creek branch disappeared over 40 years ago. So these cars are a mystery. They were sitting in a small yard. They appeared to be down graded Mainline coaches ,perhaps from some commuter service somewhere. At the power plant at the end of the line were some hard to find RS-1 units too. Perhaps these were some former Washington Terminal engines..i don't know. These engines are used only at the power plant. They were painted black with a yellow stripe and letter. It seems NS must run unit trains on this line as i also saw three or four former conrail road engines on the other side of the property from the yard where the power plants coal cars were. If anyone knows about any of this...please let me know. I like to keep up with the railroading in my old home state. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Viv & Sylvie Brice" Subject: [PRR] Lost Communications Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:20:17 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BFF013.473406A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, guys, I've tried three times over the last month to get an e-mail to Gary Mittner but each time it gets blocked "due to spam" - anyone got any ideas as to how I can get back in contact with him? Viv, a Pennsy modeller from down under PRRT&HS member 6781 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BFF013.473406A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,=20 guys,
 
I've = tried three=20 times over the last month to get an e-mail to Gary Mittner but each time = it gets=20 blocked "due to spam" - anyone got any ideas as to how I can get back in = contact=20 with him?

Viv, a Pennsy modeller from down=20 under
PRRT&HS member=20 6781

------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BFF013.473406A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:43:28 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: [PRR] X29's In REA Service Does anyone on the list have an idea as to percentage of X-29's assigned to Railway Express Service in the early 1950's that might have been re-equippeed with drop equalizer trucks? I have never seen any pictures in print other than the oft-published #100688 which was also modified with a radial roof. If the percentage of cars receiving the new trucks was low, can it be assumed that the change was made only on cars with dreadnaught ends? Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:51:25 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] LIRR "C1000" While probing the web for CT1000's and related materials, I stumbled on to a couple of LIRR books, "List of Stations and Sidings with Instructions for Making Reports to the Car Records Office and Other Information", Form C. R. 4. They have the March 1, 1913 and July 1, 1924 editions. I found them at: www.sunysb.edu/library/mc243.htm That's in the Special Collections Dept. of the library at State Univ. of N. Y. at Stony Brook. (See www.sunysb.edu/library/ldspec.htm for ground rules, hours, etc.) The LIRR was, of course, owned by the PRR for many years. (Mandatory PRR content.) ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:43:26 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] things i saw on a former PRR line. Hank--and others: Here is a site I bumped into about Delmarva railroading-- http://trainweb.org/peninsularailfan/index.html Lots of CR, some NS but no PRR --at least not yet! {PRR content alert} This last week I saw a waffle side gondola road number PRR 442618 delivering new ties to the Eastern Shore RR (former PRR Delmarva Division) here in Virginia. This was not a NS renumber but looked like the "real thing". My camera was out of film so...you'll have to take my word for it. Anyway, on the above site is a link to the Pope's Creek Secondary with the mentioned RS-1's. It seems that it is a CSX line now. http://www.traingod.railfan.net/ JimMcDaniel, still lost on Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] Pics of #6755 on website Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:50:02 +0100 I've uploaded seven detail photos of #6755 at Strassburg. Hope they are some use to modellers. http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/prr_pics/steam.htm Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rick Schoch" Subject: Re: [PRR] things i saw on a former PRR line. Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:46:15 -0400 The Delmarva Railfan Guide is a tremendous site. I e-mailed Scott a few months ago and we had a short discussion about the Pennsy heritage of the Branch. Being a young guy, he is of course more in tune with the CR/NS/ESHR days. But if you go down to the Peninsula to railfan and you're a newbie there you should take a good look at the site before you go. It was a godsend to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James L. McDaniel" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] things i saw on a former PRR line. > Hank--and others: > > Here is a site I bumped into about Delmarva railroading-- > http://trainweb.org/peninsularailfan/index.html > Lots of CR, some NS but no PRR --at least not yet! {PRR content alert} > This last week I saw a waffle side gondola road number PRR 442618 > delivering new ties to the Eastern Shore RR (former PRR Delmarva > Division) here in Virginia. This was not a NS renumber but looked like > the "real thing". My camera was out of film so...you'll have to take my > word for it. > > Anyway, on the above site is a link to the Pope's Creek > Secondary with the mentioned RS-1's. It seems that it is a CSX line > now. http://www.traingod.railfan.net/ > > JimMcDaniel, still lost on Delmarva > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:24:30 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Miracle Castings From: Jerry Britton Has anyone heard from Miracle Castings lately? I had some difficulty bringing up their web site yesterday, but finally got through. I've tried e-mailing them via two different addresses with no response. Their latest shell was originally due in January of this year, but was delayed by their "reorganization" and reslated for June. It is now several weeks late. Has anyone had contact with them? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Re: Looking for Gary Mittner List, I am alive and well. I seen the post that Viv is trying to make contact with me. I emailed him last night. I don't know why he can't get his emails through to me. I ave him an alternate email so maybe that wil work. Thanks Pat for the note......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:27:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: Is John Techmoeller Lurking? From: Jerry Britton John: If you are lurking on the list (if I recall, you are), please contact me privately. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Decals, O-Guage (1/48 scale), Middle Division...help! Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:45:37 -0700 Middle Division is alive and well. As to the availability of "O" gauge decals, I can't say. However, you will probably not have much luck writing them (I never have). Most of the hobby shops in the PA area have some of their decals in stock, and the PRRT&HS convention is a gold mine for this, as MD always shows, as well as numerous others who have his decals for sale. -----Original Message----- From: Weldon Greiger [mailto:crashtek@ismi.net] Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 2:15 PM To: ELM2@aol.com; PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Decals, O-Guage (1/48 scale), Middle Division...help! ED: Try P&D Hobbies in Michigan. 810-296-6116 BTW: Is Middle Division still in business?? All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 4:18 PM Subject: [PRR] Decals, O-Guage (1/48 scale), Middle Division...help! > Gentlemen, > > I am looking for a source to purchase Middle Division Decals. I am ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: [PRR] Rail uniforms and hats Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:22:52 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFF0D4.6C3F8B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List, A recent thread was on access to railroad hats or uniforms. = In the fall issue of Classic Trains p15, is an ad for caps and = uniforms, from the Transquip Co. in Chalfont Pa www.transquip.net. = Hope this is what you need. Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFF0D4.6C3F8B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List,  A recent = thread   =20 was on access to railroad hats or uniforms.  In the fall issue = of =20 Classic Trains p15, is an ad for caps and uniforms, from the Transquip = Co. in=20 Chalfont Pa   www.transquip.net.  Hope this = is what=20 you=20 need.           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   =20 Jim
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFF0D4.6C3F8B60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Evan Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Correct hoppers for era? Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:20:46 -0400 To George P. and anyone else who might be interested, I have scanned and uploaded the kitbashing directions for making an H21 from 2 Weaver 2bay hoppers. The links for the two pages are: http://www.voicenet.com/~emiller1/h21_page1.jpg http://www.voicenet.com/~emiller1/h21_page2.jpg The scans are just about the right size that you can print each on a letter size piece of paper. Have fun bashin'! Evan Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Evan Miller Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 8:57 PM To: GPandelios@aol.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Correct hoppers for era? George, A friend of mine gave me a copy of directions that he got at a kitbashing seminar for building an O scale H21 hopper from two Weaver 2 bay hoppers. If you or anyone else is interested, I could scan and post them on the web. It is only 2 pages. Cheers, Evan Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of GPandelios@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 11:29 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Correct hoppers for era? Dear PRR Fans: 3) Anybody know of any 3-rail company that makes them? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DATSMan@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:27:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] Middle Division Decals Does anyone know a contact name or number here? Thanks. Bob O'Leary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MarkCFry@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:10:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] N-5A/F Cabin Car I have a couple of related questions for the group... In a local store today, I saw an Alpha Models N-5 A/F (I believe that is the correct class). It is the N-5 cabin that was rebuilt with an N-8 cupola. Was there only one of these cabins or more, and if more, how many existed? Secondly, the model is nicely painted, but has the orange cupola. Is this a correct scheme for this model? What did the orange cupola signify, and while I'm at it, what did a yellow cupola signify? I am under the impression that the yellow cupola meant 'Pool Service', but have no idea what orange signified. Thanks in advance for your input! Mark Frysztacki ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] N-5A/F Cabin Car Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 06:24:23 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFF149.FAAFE000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Pool Service colors applied to the cupola were yellow (signified = East-West service) and grey (North-South service). However as to = orange.....well the colors were yellow or grey. I am unaware of a class N-5/F. From the description, "an N-5 cabin = rebuilt with an N-8 coupola", I tend to believe you have an N-5E there. = >From Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania and Long Island Railroads, the N-5E = class is described as a designed (not rebuilt) introduced in 1945 with = the body of an N-5 and an off centered N-8 cupola. Differed from the N-5 = in that the belt rail was omitted and shorter double windows were = applied to the sides. Don't know how much this info helps. Walt Prusick =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFF149.FAAFE000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The Pool Service colors applied to the cupola were = yellow=20 (signified East-West service) and grey (North-South service). However as = to=20 orange.....well the colors were yellow or grey.
 
I am unaware of a class N-5/F. From the description, = "an N-5=20 cabin rebuilt with an  N-8 coupola", I tend to believe = you have an=20 N-5E there. From Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania and Long Island=20 Railroads, the N-5E class is described as a designed (not = rebuilt)=20 introduced in 1945 with the body of an N-5 and an off = centered N-8=20 cupola. Differed from the N-5 in that the belt rail was omitted and = shorter=20 double windows were applied to the sides. Don't know how much this info=20 helps.
 
Walt Prusick  
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFF149.FAAFE000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:36:49 -0400 From: "White, Don" Subject: [PRR] Change email address? Sorry to waste your time with this, but how do I unsubscribe, and subscribe with a new email address? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:35:38 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Bowser Still Needs Your Help From: Jerry Britton Lee at Bowser still needs some photos to complete a C-Liner trainphone set... On 7/19/00 9:27 AM, Lee English (bowser@uplink.net) wrote: > We have tried to make the Cliner train phone supports. > > The patterns all look wrong. We need a better photo of > the stanchion. The head is not a problem it is the body > that does not come out right and we cannot see in the photo > what to do. > > We need a 45 deg angle shot of the stanchion or a drawing > > any help would be appreciated. He also reports the following on the N scale N-5 project... > > > Our N scale PRR N-5 is well along. We have complete body roof and glass > plastic shots. We are only waiting on the truck mold to be finished > > We have been able to reproduce the detail we have in Ho into the N model > > The trucks will be very sharp with the correct PRR shape. > --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:01:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5A/F Cabin Car In a message dated 07/18/2000 23:16:13 Eastern Daylight Time, MarkCFry@aol.com writes: > Secondly, the model is nicely painted, but has the orange cupola. Is this a > correct scheme for this model? > > What did the orange cupola signify, and while I'm at it, what did a yellow > cupola signify? I am under the impression that the yellow cupola meant ' > Pool > Service', but have no idea what orange signified. Yellow cupola was East-West Pool service. Gray cupola North-South Pool service. If I remember correctly orange cupola was electirified territory pool service. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:04:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5A/F Cabin Car The only difference between an N5A and an N5F is the presence of a toolbox and generator under the N5F. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:36:44 EDT Subject: [PRR] Conference Announcement (Environmental History of Not quite off-topic, in that the history of Pittsburgh is so much linked to the railroads: ============================================================= Subj: Conference announcement Date: 7/17/2000 3:11:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: k.j.w.oosthoek@stir.ac.uk (Kornelis Oosthoek {PG}) Sender: H-ENVIRONMENT@H-NET.MSU.EDU (H-NET List for Environmental History) Reply-to: H-ENVIRONMENT@H-NET.M SU.EDU (H-NET List for Environmental History) To: H-ENVIRONMENT@H-NET.MSU.EDU From: Zach Falck The Environmental History of Pittsburgh Saturday and Sunday, September 16-17, 2000 The study of urban environmental history has within the last decade become a major field of historical investigation. Pittsburgh has a rich and complicated environmental history, making it an ideal place for sustained examination. This history has been marked by some of the worst pollution any American city has experienced as well as successful attempts at remediation and improvement. This conference will bring together the work of historians, geographers, natural scientists, and policy makers to explore the main themes in Pittsburgh's environmental history. In addition to the ten papers listed below, the conference will included a panel discussion placing Pittsburgh environmental history in a broader context. CONTRIBUTORS INCLUDE: Joel Tarr, Carnegie Mellon University *Overview of Pittsburgh Environmental History Sue Thompson, Independent Environmental Consultant *The Ecology of the Western Pennsylvania Region Angela Gugliotta, University of Notre Dame *Women and Environmental Improvement in Pittsburgh Sherie Mershon, Carnegie Mellon University *The Accomplishment of Smoke Control in Pittsburgh Lynn Snyder, U.S. Public Health Service *The Donora Smoke Disaster and Industrial Air Pollution Edward Muller, University of Pittsburgh *Pittsburgh Rivers and Riverbanks Nick Casner, Boise State University *Mine Acid Drainage and Water Quality in the Pittsburgh Rivers Joel Tarr, Carnegie Mellon University *Creating the Pittsburgh Built Environment Andrew McElwaine, President and Chief Executive Officer, Pennsylvania Environmental Council *The History of Nine Mile Run and the Future of Pittsburgh Area Brownfields Samuel Hays, Emeritus, University of Pittsburgh *Environmental Activism and Environmental Improvement in Western Pennsylvania Andrew Hurley, University of Missouri, St. Louis Anthony Penna, Northeastern University Adam Rome, Pennsylvania State University Christine Rosen, University of California, Berkeley *Panel Discussion - Pittsburgh's Environmental History in Comparative Perspective Organized by the Carnegie Mellon University Department of History; hosted by the Historical Society of Western Pennsylvania; and, sponsored by the Heinz Endowments. Organizer: Joel Tarr, Carnegie Mellon University FOR MORE INFORMATION Program and registration details available by: website: http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~zfalck/ email: zfalck@andrew.cmu.edu phone: Zachary Falck (412) 268-2880 Zachary Falck Department of History Baker Hall 240 Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213 ============================================================= Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:39:18 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: [MerchServ] Morning Sun Books/Union Station Jerry, In your obituary for Miricle Castings, you also state "following on the heels of the demise of Union Station Products"..... When did this happen? Before you had mentioned that they seemed to be in trouble: is it now official that they're gone too? These two blows are indeed bad news. While Brass Car Sides can cover part of the passenger car loss, the end of the BP20's and now no Lowery FM's is not good.Bummer. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [MerchServ] Morning Sun Books/Union Station Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:23:15 -0400 PRR-Talk Listers It is very unfortunate to see any model railroad company go under. Not only is it a loss to modelers for the products that the company provided, but it is a loss of business and money to those individuals who put up capital and money to start and run their businesses. I think that modeler railroad business, when compared to other markets and business, is a specific and small market in which profits and rates of return can be low (if any) and the possibility of chapter 11 is real. I do not want to come across as pessimistic, but I view the model railroad business with both envy and respect. It is not a market for those who want to make gobs of money (i.e. Silicon Valley) but it seems that those who are in the business are more laborers of love than pure profiteers. I think that the loss of Union Station and Miracle Castings will be a loss to the modeling community. It might not be in the long run; there is increasing emphasis on passenger car modeling which may pick up the slack from Union Station products. Also, Proto 1000/2000 continues to surprise me with the annoucements of engines such as the C-liners and Erie Builts that were thought not to be in the market for conventional plastic model product. What's next? Shark noses and Centipedes? It is very possible.... I just wanted to take the time to express my appreciation to those companies, past and present for making this hobby fun and enjoyable. To often, I get into a frame of mind "when will this company come out with this car or engine?". Instead, I should be thankful of all the stuff that has come out. As a PRR modeler, I am very grateful to companies Bowser, Red Caboose, Branchline Trains, Athearn, Life Like, Champ Decals, etc. (the list can go on and on and on...) Once again, thanks to those producers who have made this hobby easier to enjoy for the rest of us. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana (owner of a A-B set of Miracle Castings Erie Builts and one set of P-85 coach car sides from Union Station Products) -----Original Message----- From: BPX29@aol.com [mailto:BPX29@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 9:39 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Re: [MerchServ] Morning Sun Books/Union Station Jerry, In your obituary for Miricle Castings, you also state "following on the heels of the demise of Union Station Products"..... When did this happen? Before you had mentioned that they seemed to be in trouble: is it now official that they're gone too? These two blows are indeed bad news. While Brass Car Sides can cover part of the passenger car loss, the end of the BP20's and now no Lowery FM's is not good.Bummer. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:30:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [MerchServ] Morning Sun Books/Union Station From: Jerry Britton My original comment was via the "Merchandise Announce" list, but a recipient chose to respond publicly via "PRR-Talk" so I will answer it here... On 7/19/00 10:39 AM, BPX29@aol.com (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > In your obituary for Miricle Castings, you also state "following on the heels > of the demise of Union Station Products"..... > When did this happen? Before you had mentioned that they seemed to be in > trouble: is it now official that they're gone too? > These two blows are indeed bad news. While Brass Car Sides can cover part of > the passenger car loss, the end of the BP20's and now no Lowery FM's is not > good.Bummer. As for Union Station Products, I was their web site provider, so the site remained after they "went under". They were often behind in paying for this service, but they usually caught up every few months, so I was not concerned that they were behind again. Also, they normally take 4-6 weeks to fill orders. At one point, I decided they were way overdue in payments AND I needed to follow up on an order. I received no response after numerous attempts. I tried Certified Mail. It remains undeliverable. I then closed down their web site (http://usp.dsop.com), leaving only a short message, and removed the products from my eStore. As for Miracle Castings, their web site continues to serve pages. However, it may be that their ISP just hasn't removed the site from their server yet. Attempts to e-mail them have been in vain. One of their addresses is still receiving the digest of this list, without bouncing...so the mail is indeed going somewhere. If it was not being read, the mailbox would fill and bounce eventually. So, the individuals are still in existence, choosing not to respond to corporate requests. Their FM H16-44 was due in January. Then in the spring they "disappeared" for awhile. With the priest about to read last rites, Pat Lawless came forth with an "explanation" that the company had reorganized. His story seemed a bit "too big" for a known small company. I had my doubts, and they seem to have panned out. The H16-44 was rescheduled for this past June, and the web site was never updated since. Two other model railroad manufacturers have recently come forth and confirmed my suspicions that they are no longer in business. Dead or not, I have removed their products from my eStore and I will no longer conduct business with them...even if they return. As for BP20's, the only current offering I am aware of is from TrainStuff. As for passenger cars, Branchline Trains will be performing wonders for us for heavyweights in a complete kit form. Hopefully someone else will come forth with complete lightweight kits. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:36:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [MerchServ] Morning Sun Books/Union Station From: Jerry Britton On 7/19/00 11:23 AM, Andrews, Ted (Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com) wrote: > I do not want to come across as pessimistic, but I view the model railroad > business with both envy and respect. It is not a market for those who want > to make gobs of money (i.e. Silicon Valley) but it seems that those who are > in the business are more laborers of love than pure profiteers. > Hear, hear!!! My wife always asks why I do this...you all know!!! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/13/00 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:19:27 -0400 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:16:31 -0400 Bob Johnson wrote: Greetings to Paul, Bob and the list, There were earlier issues ............................................................................ ....: ..............Also, I seem to remember a pack of update pages for the 1945 C.T. 1000 dated 1946. Can anybody confirm the issuance of updates? Was there a C.T. 1000 after 1945? If updates were issued, how long was that done? Bob Johnson Bob: Since you were probably with me when I bought my CT1000, you may remember seeing the supplement which came with it (I believe your comments were "Buy it, you'll like it.). Although I didn't count the pages. the stapled supplement is about 1/3 the thickness of the main document. Each page is marked "SUPP. 1 - C.T. 1000" in the upper right hand corner. However there is no date on any of the pages. Carl P. Izzo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:34:59 -0400 From: Garry Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/13/00 > > ..............Also, I seem to remember a pack of update pages for the 1945 > C.T. 1000 > dated 1946. Can anybody confirm the issuance of updates? Was there a > C.T. 1000 after 1945? If updates were issued, how long was that done? > > Bob Johnson > > Bob: > > Since you were probably with me when I bought my CT1000, you may remember > seeing the supplement which came with it (I believe your comments were "Buy > it, you'll like it.). Although I didn't count the pages. the stapled > supplement is about 1/3 the thickness of the main document. Each page is > marked "SUPP. 1 - C.T. 1000" in the upper right hand corner. However there > is no date on any of the pages. > > Carl P. Izzo I have a working copy of the C.T. 1000 from the car records office. The are pages marked "SUPP. 1 - C.T. 1000" in either the upper right OR left hand corner. The supplement pages are about 1/16" narrower that the origional pages, ading me in finding them. I don't see and other supplements, but most pages have penciled notes, corrections, whatever on the pages. This book was in use until the early 1970's when, I think, computers took over the car record functions. The book was still used to answer guestions, like locationing some obscure siding or industry, Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:43:26 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/13/00 (CT1000 data) --- Garry wrote: > > > > ..............Also, I seem to remember a pack of > update pages for the 1945 > > C.T. 1000 > > dated 1946. Can anybody confirm the issuance of > updates? Was there a > > C.T. 1000 after 1945? If updates were issued, how > long was that done? > > > > Bob Johnson > > > > Bob: > > > > Since you were probably with me when I bought my > CT1000, you may remember > > seeing the supplement which came with it (I > believe your comments were "Buy > > it, you'll like it.). Although I didn't count the > pages. the stapled > > supplement is about 1/3 the thickness of the main > document. Each page is > > marked "SUPP. 1 - C.T. 1000" in the upper right > hand corner. However there > > is no date on any of the pages. > > > > Carl P. Izzo > > I have a working copy of the C.T. 1000 from the car > records office. The > are pages marked "SUPP. 1 - C.T. 1000" in either the > upper right OR left > hand corner. The supplement pages are about 1/16" > narrower that the > origional pages, ading me in finding them. > > I don't see and other supplements, but most pages > have penciled notes, > corrections, whatever on the pages. This book was > in use until the > early 1970's when, I think, computers took over the > car record > functions. The book was still used to answer > guestions, like > locationing some obscure siding or industry, > > Garry Spear > I just got the "1945 CT1000 with Supplement 1" which I mentioned a few days ago. The supplement pages are undated, say only as noted above. Perhaps originally the packet of pages had a cover letter which was dated? Mine didn't. Regarding computers, Form CT4001 "List of Locations for use in the Car Reporting System" (or some such) came out in 1964 if not earlier. It may be that individuals continued to use their old CT1000's, as the CT4001 is a very blunt instrument compared to a CT1000. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] N-5A/F Cabin Car Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:16:24 -0700 Mark Frysztacki wrote: "In a local store today, I saw an Alpha Models N-5 A/F (I believe that is the correct class). It is the N-5 cabin that was rebuilt with an N-8 cupola. Was there only one of these cabins or more, and if more, how many existed?" Class and description don't match up - the closest class that matches the description is Class N5E. Class N5A was introduced in 1937 and were class N5 cabins rebuilt with Duryea cushion underframes; however, at first look, they appear to be unmodified class N5 cabins. "Secondly, the model is nicely painted, but has the orange cupola. Is this a correct scheme for this model? What did the orange cupola signify, and while I'm at it, what did a yellow cupola signify? I am under the impression that the yellow cupola meant 'Pool Service', but have no idea what orange signified." What scheme was the rest of the cabin in? Was it a focal orange cabin? Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:11:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [MerchServ] Morning Sun Books/Union Station In a message dated 7/19/00 11:33:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com writes: << It is not a market for those who want to make gobs of money (i.e. Silicon Valley) but it seems that those who are in the business are more laborers of love than pure profiteers. >> Ted and List - We at Trainstuff know that we would not survive if not for our customers. There are a lot of small companies out there such as ourselves that make good products. We try whenever we can to use their products in any kits that we make thus helping ourselves and them stay in business. It might be a few cents cheaper to make the detail parts ourselves but why should we when we can help bring someone else some profit too? Eastern Car Works makes an excellent sideframe for our MP54. We are using them. We are putting Bowser trucks and wheels on our new tender. Many other companies have helped us with drive parts and technology. Not to leave out the many Pennsy modelers on this list and others that have supplied us with pictures and information which have helped immensely. We are certainly not perfect but we are having a ball even though our pay is peanuts. And by the way if anyone out there has a side grill for an MP54 that they would let us borrow or buy you would be helping all interested Pennsy modelers as we have in stock the necessary parts, but we need to replicate this grill for the side of the car, to complete our upgrade. So thanks again. It's really great to know that there are those of you who appreciate our efforts and the efforts of all other small manufacturers. Dayna www.trainstuffllc.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] RE: N-5A/F Cabin Car    Hi List, just taking a break from vacation (webtv is portable!!!) to insert another possible tidbit on this N5a/f Cabin Car. I have this model too and if I remember correctly it also came with extra seperate detail for a cushioned underframe. I am 1000 miles from home right now so I can't dig up the info that would tell me which class needs these parts added. I am thinking it is the N5f that had the cushioned underframe. The N5a had the added tool/radio Box. Am I assuming correctly?.....Gary PS: Sorry if some got this message twice. I messed up!!!! Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:06:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5A/F Cabin Car Mark, Here is some information. The N-5a class introduced in 1937, has a Duryea cushioned underfrane, AB brake system and Ajax brake wheels. So says my copy of CABIN CARS OF THE PENNSYLVANIA AND LONG ISLAND RAILROADS. From the two photos the cars are pretty standard, that is to say the cupolas are not the N-8 style. I think the N-5f does have the cupola you refer to. Of course this book doesn't cover that subclass. I have seen that car, during Penn Central days, so I'm very sure there was at least one and it did survive to receive everyone's favorite PC green and the "worms in love" emblem. Now as far as an orange cupola, I've never seen that. Unless the car body was also orange (Focal Orange) and that would make it a late Pennsy Cabin Car paint job. That scheme began appearing in about June 1965 but not all cars received this scheme. * There are two cupola colors used to indicate the car is in a pool. Chrome yellow, beginning in late 1961 for cars permanently assigned to a pool, then beginning in 1963, gray for cars in electrified territory. Cars temporarily assigned to pool service received a chrome yellow circle five inches in diameter with an "open" two inch diameter center. This was applied to the cupola side sheet.* *THE KEYSTONE, Vol. 7, No. 4, December 1974, "Painting and Lettering of Pennsylvania Railroad Cabin Cars" by Gary C. Rauch, Robert Johnson, and Frederic V. Shaefer. I hope this information is of some help to you. Ed Martin... feared by Cajon Div., P.S.R, N.M.R.A Director Ed Hall ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MarkCFry@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 02:43:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5A/F Cabin Car Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions! The model is currently painted with the large "Pennsylvania" on the side and the red/oxide color, not orange - only the cupola is orange. Many reponses confirmed what I had heard earlier; that the yellow color indicated east/west pool service and gray indicated north/south pool service. I had not seen the orange cupola before, so was stumped, but some have suggested that this indicates electrified territory pool service. As to the exact 'class', I'm going to have to go back and double check the box. It is an Alpha Models release, and I could have sworn it said 'N-5 A/F', but I could be wrong. It is a unique looking model, having the N-8 style cupola, mounted on what appears to be an N-5 body, with two sets of double windows on the body. I had been left with the impression that this particular cabin was a 'one of a kind', not a regular mass production class. Once I go back and verify the class, and do some more research, I'll post my findings here. Thanks again for all your help! Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:07:01 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5A/F Cabin Car I have one of these Alpha Models cabin cars purchased new. The box reads N-5A/F. The car has a standard N-5 cupola. The only extra part in the box is a battery box which I understand was used on the N-5F. Frank Brua MarkCFry@aol.com wrote: > Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions! > > The model is currently painted with the large "Pennsylvania" on the side and > the red/oxide color, not orange - only the cupola is orange. > > Many reponses confirmed what I had heard earlier; that the yellow color > indicated east/west pool service and gray indicated north/south pool service. > I had not seen the orange cupola before, so was stumped, but some have > suggested that this indicates electrified territory pool service. > > As to the exact 'class', I'm going to have to go back and double check the > box. It is an Alpha Models release, and I could have sworn it said 'N-5 > A/F', but I could be wrong. It is a unique looking model, having the N-8 > style cupola, mounted on what appears to be an N-5 body, with two sets of > double windows on the body. I had been left with the impression that this > particular cabin was a 'one of a kind', not a regular mass production class. > > Once I go back and verify the class, and do some more research, I'll post my > findings here. > > Thanks again for all your help! > > Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:11:28 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Miracle Castings From: Jerry Britton To quote from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", responding to "Bring out your dead", one Miracle Castings staffer, Dave, essentially responds to the effect of... "But I'm not dead, yet!" Yes, Dave, finally responding via Miracle's "sales@" e-mail address claims the company's computer died. Gee, one computer for a company as large as it is? (Remember when they reorganized this spring, Pat Lawless outlined who would be acting as ceo, cfo, etc., etc., etc.?) I hope they are indeed still in business. However, this is yet another example that they really need to evaluate if they want to be a business or not. If your computer goes down and you can't respond to e-mail for weeks on end, wouldn't you try a workaround? At least a message on your web site? Dave reports that the H16-44, overdue since January, then June, is about two weeks away. Those who had ordered them through "Merchandise Service" will receive a notice once Miracle finally announces shipment of them...asking if they would like their orders reinstated or not. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:39:22 -0400 From: Robert Wickus Subject: [PRR] PRR 7000 series parlor cars I am presently working on a list of PRR 7000 series parlor cars. So far I have accounted for all numbers from 7000 thru 7175, with the exception of one block of numbers from 7164 thru 7173. I have two questions: 1. Were the numbers 7164 thru 7173 used by PRR, and if so, what were they assigned to? 2 Were numbers above 7175 used, and if so what were they assigned to? Thanks in advance for any info you may be able to supply Bob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] PRR K-5 Assignments Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:58:56 -0400 PRR Talk-Listers: In Al Stauffer's "Pennsy Power", the K-5 pacifics sent their last days assigned the passenger runs between Pittsburgh and Crestline. However, in a recent "Keystone" article on the K-5, no mention was given to this assignment. Can anyone confirm this assignment west of Pittsburgh? If it did happen, when (year) did it occur? What enginehouse? Thanks in advance for any information that you can provide me. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DATSMan@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:28:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] Handrail color My recollection is that on the first generation diesels, with "Pennsylvania" spelled out in dulux gold lettering, the handrails were a darker yellow than on the later herald-only scheme where the yellow was brighter to match the large numbers. Can anyone confirm this? Thanks. Bob O'Leary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:04:54 -0400 From: Garry Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 7000 series parlor cars Robert Wickus wrote: > > I am presently working on a list of PRR 7000 series parlor cars. So far > I have accounted for all numbers from 7000 thru 7175, with the exception > of one block of numbers from 7164 thru 7173. > > I have two questions: > > 1. Were the numbers 7164 thru 7173 used by PRR, and if so, what were > they assigned to? > > 2 Were numbers above 7175 used, and if so what were they assigned to? > > Thanks in advance for any info you may be able to supply > > Bob > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". Numbers 7150 to 7162 are sleepers in the 1958 ORPTE. There were a series of sleepers and sleeper-lounges used as parlor cars and assigned these type numbers. Do you have the associated car names for these car numbers? Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:54:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pennsy in Wheeling Folks, I'm basing my being-rebuilt layout as closely as I can on Wheeling WV as it was in the 1950's, at least in the downtown area. The B&O side of things is fairly well covered, and the old B&O facilities books are very helpful. But even these B&O publications admit that Pennsy was the big gun regarding freight in the area.My problem is finding PRR facilities, as these are not well-covered in what I have. Is anyone familar enough with that area to tell me where the PRR depot and freight stations were located? The interchange points are no problem, but street locations of the depots would be a big help. Also, what kind of motive powere did PRR have assigned here c1957? Any info would be helpful, so thanks much for any advice. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Conemaugh Engine Facility Triumph 1 has a few photos of the round house at Conemaugh. Unfortunately there of the back of the roundhouse. Anyone know of any photos of the front? I'm scratching building the roundhouse. I'm looking for measurements. any info would be appreciated--------Mark L . ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 18:34:12 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR K-5 Assignments Ted, list My copy of the Winter 1995 Keystone is in storage, so I'm doing this from memory. The K5 class spent some of their early years on the main line, and may have made it out to Chicago. However, due to steaming problems and cinder buildup in the smokebox, the engines spent most of their lives on the Northern Central, running from Harrisburg to Baltimore. They gave good enough service on that route to keep them in service until 1952 (5698) and 1953 (5699). Staufer's Pennsy Power has gorgeous photographs, but doesn't have modern research methods behind it; treat it's text with caution. Doug "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > PRR Talk-Listers: > > In Al Stauffer's "Pennsy Power", the K-5 pacifics sent their last days > assigned the passenger runs between Pittsburgh and Crestline. However, in a > recent "Keystone" article on the K-5, no mention was given to this > assignment. > > Can anyone confirm this assignment west of Pittsburgh? If it did happen, > when (year) did it occur? What enginehouse? > > Thanks in advance for any information that you can provide me. > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:25:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy in Wheeling Nick and Fred, Thanks very much for the replies. Those guys at Classic trains got the jump on me, it seems! I knew the next issue was going to have a little something on Wheeling, but this sounds better than I was expecting. Maps and all you say? Great! I better slip over there during lunch tomorow and pick this up at my new local friendly hobby shop. I know the Pennsy used to haul a 10-5 sleeper into town behind a gas-electric from the main line up by Stuebenville, a through car from New York, in the 1950's. Sure would like to see what they were using for local switchers and road jobs in those days. Well, thanks again, even if I'll have to have lunch while driving to get that copy. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 00:03:37 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Decals wanted In a message dated 07/14/2000 10:07:47 PM Central Daylight Time, Stuthayer@aol.com writes: << << -- red square "radio" sign for diesels >> I am in desperate need of these as well. >> Hi Gize, A guy in Poland Ohio used to have these, his name is Dom Colucci. I last reached him at: acoluc98@gateway.net I don't know if he still has them or the artwork. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:04:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Decals wanted In a message dated 7/20/00 10:11:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time, AlbertSR@aol.com writes: << << << -- red square "radio" sign for diesels >> I am in desperate need of these as well. >> Hi Gize, A guy in Poland Ohio used to have these, his name is Dom Colucci. I last reached him at: acoluc98@gateway.net I don't know if he still has them or the artwork. Al >> Al and other interested parties, I talked to Raritan Bay Hobbies last weekend, and they told me that they still has a few sets of the radio decals left. They also told me that when these are gone, they do intend to rerun them. They are selling a set of 2 pairs of radio decals for $3.49 Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] PRR railworks flats.. Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:34:53 -0400 Hi, If anyone cares, most of the new Railworks flats are out... The F33, F34, F35, F36, F37a (the F37b is coming in a few weeks..) For photos of the cars see: http://prr.railfan.net/photos/models/F33.JPG http://prr.railfan.net/photos/models/F34.JPG http://prr.railfan.net/photos/models/F35.JPG http://prr.railfan.net/photos/models/F36.JPG http://prr.railfan.net/photos/models/F37.JPG The photos are a bit big.. about 200K each. Rob http://prr.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:49:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR railworks flats.. From: Jerry Britton On 7/21/00 12:34 PM, Rob Schoenberg (robs@actel.com) wrote: > If anyone cares, most of the new Railworks flats are out... The F33, F34, > F35, F36, F37a (the F37b is coming in a few weeks..) > > For photos of the cars see: > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/models/F33.JPG > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/models/F34.JPG > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/models/F35.JPG > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/models/F36.JPG > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/models/F37.JPG > > The photos are a bit big.. about 200K each. > Thanks for sharing the photos, Rob. Just an FYI: These flats are in extremely short supply. Most were fully reserved before they even hit the U.S. Only the F-34 and F-37 remain available from the importer...and quantities there are only about a half dozen each! So, if you did not reserve, your only chance is to find a reseller that has units on hand that they purchased on speculation. I have sold all of the units that I had reserved and received. (I am in the process of shipping them all out today.) --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 15:44:26 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings To All, This always kills me when we a modelers assume a thing without proper investigation. I have known that Miracle Castings is alive and shipping. Anyone wanting BP-20's ($140.00 for an A/B set) call Long's Drugs for immediate shippment via mail order. Also they have inventory on hand in FM ERIE Builts. They will have stock in on the FM H-15-44 as soon as they are availible in early August. Does anyone on this list read Mainline Modeler? MR is not always the only source of information. I hate the fact some folks declare someone dead because that company doesn't place as much importence on eCommerce as perhaps members of this list does. Any one with a computer usually has a phone... Call them, that is my best source of information... I would rather hear it from the guy selling it than get it second hand... Please, Please, Please remember all these companies are small and BAD PRESS or EMAIl can hurt them. Try the phone, I have always had a return call from Pat Lawless. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 20:15:36 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Trying to Head Off a New Rumor... Hey Yuze Gize I just received the following from Craig Walker at Microscale Decals. Hopefully this will dispell any RUMOR MILL... It get way out of hand... Enjoy the Weekend... Greg Martin Dreaded gang leader of the Martin Bros Gang... Watch out PSR I may I might show up... Microscale will shortly be moving our website to a new server. It will still be accessible at http://www.microscale.com, but the new location will enable us to create an even larger website than we currently have. We will also very soon have our new, improved Index posted, and it will list all of our decals in HO, N, O and S scales, with other decals to be added later. However (and there is always a "However," isn't there?), while the site is being relocated, there will be a short time during which our website will be inaccessible -- probably a span of only three or four days, from what I have been told. During this time, however, I expect the rumor mill to gear up once again. Rumors have already been circulating that we are on the verge of bankruptcy (no doubt started due to our current high "out of stock" rate). Please rest assured that we are indeed still in business and doing fine. The fact is, we are having trouble getting our own decals reprinted due to the unusually high volume of custom decal work that we have been doing over the last several years. Out of stock decals are getting reprinted, but at nowhere near the rate that we would like. Steps are being taken to streamline things and increase productivity, but some of these changes will take time. We are reprinting based primarily upon past sales history, so any "best sellers" in our line sould be back in stock soon, while other sets will take longer. A few sets will also be reevaluated as reprint candidates, and will perhaps be redone into different formats (for example, some large sets will become Mini Cals). A list of recent reprints will most likely be E-mailed to you next week. As always, if you have any questions, comments or suggestions, please feel free to e-mail me. I will also be attending the National Train Show (held in conjunction with the NMRA National Convention) in San Jose, CA, on August 4, 5 and 6. We will be in booth #154, across the aisle from Athearn. If you are attending, please stop by and say "Hi." Thank you, Craig Walker New Product Development Microscale Industries 18435 Bandilier Cir Fountain Valley CA 92708-7012 800-722-5306 714-593-1432 (fax) http://www.microscale.com Microscale Decals ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get great brand name shoes with just the click of a mouse. Check out the huge selection at Zappos.com, the Web's Most Popular Store! Click Here! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Community email addresses: Post message: PROTOTYPEmodeler@egroups.com Subscribe: PROTOTYPEmodeler-subscribe@egroups.com Unsubscribe: PROTOTYPEmodeler-unsubscribe@egroups.com List owner: PROTOTYPEmodeler-owner@egroups.com View pictures of list members at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=205020&a=6787243 Shortcut URL to this page: http://www.onelist.com/community/PROTOTYPEmodeler >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! 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------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF35B.5096D920-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Price" Subject: [PRR] Passenger GP-7's Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 23:45:44 -0000 Hey Gang, Any one have the road numbers for the passenger GP-7s with the torpedo air tanks on the roof? Know where some photos can be found? thanks Ed ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger GP-7's Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 23:52:57 -0500 Ed--The road numbers are: 8551: Pennsylvania's Elmira Branch, pp. 28, 39 8552: Elmira Branch, pp. 28, 64 8553: Pennsy Diesel Years Vol. 4, p. 30. Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola, FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "K-Hiyama" Subject: RE: [PRR] Passenger GP-7's Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 15:44:24 +0900 Hi everyone >Ed--The road numbers are: > >8551: Pennsylvania's Elmira Branch, pp. 28, 39 > >8552: Elmira Branch, pp. 28, 64 > >8553: Pennsy Diesel Years Vol. 4, p. 30. and 8553: Pennsy Power 3, p.341 Have a nice week end!! Kazuaki Hiyama Ibaraki Japan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jwgotaskie@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 07:43:56 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars The main thing I look for to confirm a car is of X-25 heritage is to look at the area of the bolster (or what I assume is the bolster). It's "I" beam construction will be clearly visable poking out from underneath the car body. Also the end sill extends out from the car body much like the X-23 and XL's before it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 10:38:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger GP-7's In a message dated 7/22/00 1:56:27 AM Central Daylight Time, kzhym@po.net-ibaraki.ne.jp writes: << >Ed--The road numbers are: > >8551: Pennsylvania's Elmira Branch, pp. 28, 39 > >8552: Elmira Branch, pp. 28, 64 > >8553: Pennsy Diesel Years Vol. 4, p. 30. and 8553: Pennsy Power 3, p.341 >> There are also some video views in "Classic Chicago Railroading" by Pentrex. And Greg Martin and Steve Hoxie also corresponded on the subject in response to my questions last spring. I saved that correspondence and will forward Ed a Word attachment off-list. Otherwise, for others it is in the archives dated 4-12-2000 titled "GP-7's-was long hood forward?" Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:00:06 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] Miracle Castings Hi, I was in Long's Drugs in Moreno Valley, CA (they advertise in MR) the other day and they have a few copies of Miracle Castings BP-20 and Erie Built kits at $72.95 per. Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] Setting the record straight about Miracle Castings Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 13:16:49 -0400 Hi All! Thought I'd drop the list a note to advise people of the true situation with us here at Miracle Castings. First of all, despite what Jerry says, we are not out of business, and have no intention of going out of business anytime soon. I really don't care what any other distributor, customer, or anyone else says about us, we are still in business. Why certain people are so damn anxious to declare someone elses' business a failure is beyond me, but I'm afraid we're going to have to dissappoint the boy this time. For the record, Jerry decided that since we were "out of business" he was cancelling his orders and terminating his business relationship with us. (?????) This is because he didn't receive a response to his e-mail within TWO DAYS. At no time did he try to phone us to determine if we were actually out of business, because, according to him "long distance calls are expensive, especially to Canada". I can understand this, especially since Jerry appears to live on Mars (interplanetary long distance rates are hellish!). Let me get this straight. His customers have given him thousands of dollars for Miracle Castings products over the years, but he can't spend 50 cents on a phone call to determine if he is going to be able to serve them or not? Whatever. Anyway, as previously stated, we're still in business, but we've had to scale back (sound familiar Jerry?) because of the severe financial problems we experienced before our reorganization. Also, it's summer, and no one is ordering any significant amount of product. This has left us in the position that we all have to make a living outside of the company, and work the company in our spare time until we can build up our sales to the point that we can go back to working it full time. It's part of the trials and tribulations of being in business, I'm afraid. Is there something wrong with struggling to build a business? Not every business starts out full-fledged and with all the money it needs to operate like a major corporation. In fact, most don't. Most go through similar experiences to ours. Our overhead, thankfully, is quite low, so we can easily maintain the business while we build it back up. The time factor does introduce a problem however, but that just means it takes us a little longer to get things done. They eventually do get done, but not on any kind of a tight schedule. For instance, the H-15-44 / H-16-44 shell (Pennsy version) is done, and looks great. Everyone who has seen it has commented that it's our best shell yet. We're still working on the frame, fuel tank, and pilots though, so it will be a little while until the complete kit ships out the door. Sorry, but that's the reality of the situation. People have been waiting for a model of this locomotive since the 1940's, so what's another month or two? As for contacting us, you can get our sales manager Dave Henwood anytime at (519) 756-6945. That phone is answered during normal business hours, and usually well beyond normal business hours. The original phone at the shop is rarely answered, because we are working very strange hours there, and aren't going to return your calls at one in the morning. As for e-mail, if you have sent us one lately and it wasn't answered, it is likely because the main shop computer blew a mother board and was in the shop for a week. All sales related e-mails are supposed to go to the sales e-mail address sales@mc.cyklone.com This e-mail address was NOT out of service at all, since it is accessed by a different computer. We certainly didn't chose to experience the kinds of business difficulties that caused us to force the reorganization of the company, but in the end, we have a much better chance of future success because of it. All we ask is that people bear with us while we get the business running the way it should run, which is going to take some time. In the end, modellers will have a much better selection of their favourite Pennsy engines because of it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but although we have generally been later than stated in shipping our products, isn't that pretty much the way of this industry? I've seen Atlas and Athearn be WAY later with releases than we are, and they have millions of dollars to work with. We have always taken as long as it takes to make the product as good as we can make it, even if it's late. Isn't that more important than releasing it on time? Several things are in the pipeline for the near future. One is that we will be moving our web site to a much more reliable service provider, as we are heartily sick of the service interruptions we have experienced since we started. Secondly, we will be starting some mailing lists for people who want to receive announcements about new products, release dates, building tips, etc. I will pass those on to list members to put on this list once they are set up (since I'm sure Jerry in his infinite maturity will cut off my membership to this list forthwith). Thirdly, the minute the H-16-44 Pennsy version ships, we will be starting work on the H-20-44. Unfortunately, you won't be able to purchase either of these products from Jerry, since he has cancelled his dealer status, and we have absolutely no intention of reinstating it under any circumstances. We're a little sick of constantly being stabbed in the back by one of our own dealers. I suggest you contact one of our other authorized (non-stabbing) dealers to purchase. Many of them are happy to sell by mail order, and will be happy to take any money that was earmarked for Jerry's pocket. As soon as I can, I'll post photos of the completed shell on the web site, at http://mc.cyklone.com Forgive the bitter tone of this e-mail, but I find it personally offensive the way Jerry has acted, and not just towards our company. There have been several companies that have experienced difficulties in the past, and Jerry has been the VERY FIRST one in there to put a knife in their back. He seems to take great pleasure in other peoples problems. Mind you, when his so-called e-commerce web site goes down for a week while he's on vacation, that's perfectly acceptable. What's the deal Jerry? Don't you have any friends to look after your business for a few days while you go away? That's pretty hokey if you ask me. Sounds like a pretty small business to me! But let another small business have a problem with THEIR web site, and he's the first to declare them out of business. I'm totally sick of it, and we will have no further dealings with this twisted individual. Anyway, enough nastiness. I have models to build, and I will be continuing to build them for the forseeable future, so please keep checking the web site for more updates, and thanks to all list members who have supported us by purchasing our products. I truly hope you enjoy them. Signing off (for good I'm afraid), Regards, Pat Lawless Miracle Castings Inc. - Manufacturers of fine resin model railroad kits. Web site: http://mc.cyklone.com/ Phone: (519) 754-6945 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Miracle Castings reply Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 13:46:12 -0400 Whew! I believe Mr. Pat Lawless was a tad exercised about rumors of the demise of his company. This is why I never take anything expressed on the internet as 'gospel' unless it is verifiably from the original source. Hope he will continue to participate in PRR-talk when he finds time to keep those interested posted on progress of his models. Gregg Mahlkov http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rick Schoch" Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings reply Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:59:36 -0400 IMHO Mr. Lawless has every right to be ticked as hell about the whole situation. I assume everybody read his reply by now and I hope some people learned a lesson here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Mahlkov" To: Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 1:46 PM Subject: [PRR] Miracle Castings reply > Whew! I believe Mr. Pat Lawless was a tad exercised about rumors of the > demise of his company. This is why I never take anything expressed on the > internet as 'gospel' unless it is verifiably from the original source. Hope > he will continue to participate in PRR-talk when he finds time to keep those > interested posted on progress of his models. > > Gregg Mahlkov > http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:54:07 +0000 Subject: Re: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars > From: Jwgotaskie@aol.com > Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 07:43:56 EDT > Subject: Re: [PRR] Snow Plows and Flanger Cars > The main thing I look for to confirm a car is of X-25 heritage is > to look at the area of the bolster (or what I assume is the > bolster). It's "I" beam construction will be clearly visable > poking out from underneath the car body. Nope. No I-beam sticking out. > Also the end sill extends out from the car body much like the X-23 > and XL's before it. End sill does not extend out. Just looked at it. It now has a CSX label on the side. Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com === NMRA track gauge. "Don't do trains without it." === ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 16:07:43 -0400 From: 442 <442@mail.pa.net> Subject: [PRR] Best wishes go out to Miracle Castings Pat, THANX for setting the record straight and giving us the "FAX". I hope you are very successful at your business endeavors. I have heard that 10% of the new business starts are a success- I wish you the best. Having a team of LOYAL players is one key to success. Getting rid of the dead wood is one way to have only loyal team members. All members must have their eyes on the same goal. A ship has only ONE captain not two and a train has only ONE conductor not two. I do agree that a quality product is the way to get and keep a loyal customer base. I too would not like to have mistruths spread around either- Some peoples minds are like concrete all mixed up and permanently set. I will pass the following onto the members of the PRR-FAX list. So as to keep the members of the PRR "fanclub" up to speed. I hope they will support YOUR company. Best wishes, 442 At 13:16 7/22/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hi All! Thought I'd drop the list a note to advise people of the true >situation with us here at Miracle Castings. >First of all, despite what Jerry says, we are not out of business, and have >no intention of going out of business anytime soon. I really don't care what >any other distributor, customer, or anyone else says about us, we are still >in business. Why certain people are so damn anxious to declare someone >elses' business a failure is beyond me, but I'm afraid we're going to have >to dissappoint the boy this time. >For the record, Jerry decided that since we were "out of business" he was >cancelling his orders and terminating his business relationship with us. >(?????) This is because he didn't receive a response to his e-mail within >TWO DAYS. At no time did he try to phone us to determine if we were >actually out of business, because, according to him "long distance calls are >expensive, especially to Canada". I can understand this, especially since >Jerry appears to live on Mars (interplanetary long distance rates are >hellish!). Let me get this straight. His customers have given him thousands >of dollars for Miracle Castings products over the years, but he can't spend >50 cents on a phone call to determine if he is going to be able to serve >them or not? Whatever. >Anyway, as previously stated, we're still in business, but we've had to >scale back (sound familiar Jerry?) because of the severe financial problems >we experienced before our reorganization. Also, it's summer, and no one is >ordering any significant amount of product. This has left us in the >position that we all have to make a living outside of the company, and work >the company in our spare time until we can build up our sales to the point >that we can go back to working it full time. It's part of the trials and >tribulations of being in business, I'm afraid. Is there something wrong with >struggling to build a business? Not every business starts out full-fledged >and with all the money it needs to operate like a major corporation. In >fact, most don't. Most go through similar experiences to ours. Our >overhead, thankfully, is quite low, so we can easily maintain the business >while we build it back up. The time factor does introduce a problem >however, but that just means it takes us a little longer to get things done. >They eventually do get done, but not on any kind of a tight schedule. For >instance, the H-15-44 / H-16-44 shell (Pennsy version) is done, and looks >great. Everyone who has seen it has commented that it's our best shell yet. >We're still working on the frame, fuel tank, and pilots though, so it will >be a little while until the complete kit ships out the door. Sorry, but >that's the reality of the situation. People have been waiting for a model of >this locomotive since the 1940's, so what's another month or two? As for >contacting us, you can get our sales manager Dave Henwood anytime at (519) >756-6945. That phone is answered during normal business hours, and usually >well beyond normal business hours. The original phone at the shop is rarely >answered, because we are working very strange hours there, and aren't going >to return your calls at one in the morning. As for e-mail, if you have sent >us one lately and it wasn't answered, it is likely because the main shop >computer blew a mother board and was in the shop for a week. All sales >related e-mails are supposed to go to the sales e-mail address >sales@mc.cyklone.com This e-mail address was NOT out of service at all, >since it is accessed by a different computer. We certainly didn't chose to >experience the kinds of business difficulties that caused us to force the >reorganization of the company, but in the end, we have a much better chance >of future success because of it. All we ask is that people bear with us >while we get the business running the way it should run, which is going to >take some time. In the end, modellers will have a much better selection of >their favourite Pennsy engines because of it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but >although we have generally been later than stated in shipping our products, >isn't that pretty much the way of this industry? I've seen Atlas and >Athearn be WAY later with releases than we are, and they have millions of >dollars to work with. We have always taken as long as it takes to make the >product as good as we can make it, even if it's late. Isn't that more >important than releasing it on time? Several things are in the pipeline for >the near future. One is that we will be moving our web site to a much more >reliable service provider, as we are heartily sick of the service >interruptions we have experienced since we started. Secondly, we will be >starting some mailing lists for people who want to receive announcements >about new products, release dates, building tips, etc. I will pass those on >to list members to put on this list once they are set up (since I'm sure >Jerry in his infinite maturity will cut off my membership to this list >forthwith). Thirdly, the minute the H-16-44 Pennsy version ships, we will >be starting work on the H-20-44. Unfortunately, you won't be able to >purchase either of these products from Jerry, since he has cancelled his >dealer status, and we have absolutely no intention of reinstating it under >any circumstances. We're a little sick of constantly being stabbed in the >back by one of our own dealers. I suggest you contact one of our other >authorized (non-stabbing) dealers to purchase. Many of them are happy to >sell by mail order, and will be happy to take any money that was earmarked >for Jerry's pocket. As soon as I can, I'll post photos of the completed >shell on the web site, at http://mc.cyklone.com Forgive the bitter tone of >this e-mail, but I find it personally offensive the way Jerry has acted, and >not just towards our company. There have been several companies that have >experienced difficulties in the past, and Jerry has been the VERY FIRST one >in there to put a knife in their back. He seems to take great pleasure in >other peoples problems. Mind you, when his so-called e-commerce web site >goes down for a week while he's on vacation, that's perfectly acceptable. >What's the deal Jerry? Don't you have any friends to look after your >business for a few days while you go away? That's pretty hokey if you ask >me. Sounds like a pretty small business to me! But let another small >business have a problem with THEIR web site, and he's the first to declare >them out of business. I'm totally sick of it, and we will have no further >dealings with this twisted individual. Anyway, enough nastiness. I have >models to build, and I will be continuing to build them for the forseeable >future, so please keep checking the web site for more updates, and thanks to >all list members who have supported us by purchasing our products. I truly >hope you enjoy them. Signing off (for good I'm afraid), > >Regards, >Pat Lawless >Miracle Castings Inc. - Manufacturers of fine resin model railroad kits. >Web site: http://mc.cyklone.com/ Phone: (519) 754-6945 > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 16:47:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Setting the record straight about Miracle Castings From: Jerry Britton On 7/22/00 1:16 PM, Miracle Castings Inc. at (miracle-castings@on.aibn.com) wrote: > First of all, despite what Jerry says, we are not out of business, and have > no intention of going out of business anytime soon. I really don't care what > any other distributor, customer, or anyone else says about us, we are still > in business. I, for one, am glad MC is still in business. Unfortunately, I was given poor information from two other vendors...and they are on this list and they know who they are. Also, unfortunately, at least one person on the list who knew otherwise chose to keep quite until after the fiasco. True, I should have picked up the phone and called. Since we have never had a telephone conversation, I guess I just didn't think of it. Pat and I have always communicated by e-mail...going back 18 months or so. Enough of apologies, as I have already been through it privately in more detail with Dave, your sales manager, since he was able to contact me several days ago. > Secondly, we will be > starting some mailing lists for people who want to receive announcements > about new products, release dates, building tips, etc. I will pass those on > to list members to put on this list once they are set up (since I'm sure > Jerry in his infinite maturity will cut off my membership to this list > forthwith). Not at all. "PRR-Talk" is for the Pennsy community. It is not my personal fan club! > Thirdly, the minute the H-16-44 Pennsy version ships, we will > be starting work on the H-20-44. Unfortunately, you won't be able to > purchase either of these products from Jerry, since he has cancelled his > dealer status, and we have absolutely no intention of reinstating it under > any circumstances. That is not per the conversation that I had with Dave, your sales manager. I asked him to notify me when the H16-44 finally does ship and we would consider the situation at that time. However, given the tone of the remainder of your message, I think it best to cut ties permanently. Unfortunate for both parties involved. Again, I welcome you to continue participation on the list. There are 426 other folks who are very interested in what you have to say. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:30:18 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Teichmoeller Hopper Book From: Jerry Britton Having tracked down John Teichmoeller online, I am providing this update to "PRR-Talk" and "Merchandise Announce" as the status of his long overdue book on PRR hoppers... On 7/23/00 8:55 AM, John Teichmoeller at (xxxxxxxxxx) wrote: > I sent off the last of my "revised revisions" in late April-early May and > have since received at least one set of proofs of the material from the > publisher. Their goal was to have the book for sale at the NMRA Convention > in San Jose but they will not achieve that. According to Randy Lee, the > first pages of the material went to the printer the week of 7/14, and they > expect to have all of it to the printer by the time he leaves for the > convention. He had talked about having some of the covers shipped to the > convention to show people it is a real deal. There were about 93 pages in > the original set of articles, and I estimate the stuff I submitted will come > to over 140. We had talked about the possible need to edit some of the > stuff out but there has been no further discussion of that and, as near as I > can tell, all of my material will run as submitted. They have been > meticulous in trying to include everything I sent, for better or worse. > Assuming the above timetable is adhered to, I would make a purely personal > estimate for retail availability by sometime in late August. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:38:04 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Good Year for PRR Diesel Modelers From: Jerry Britton Folks, it looks like it's gonna be a good year for PRR diesel modelers... * FA1/FB1's from Life Like Proto 2000, due late Q3, actually. * Erie-built A/B's from Life Like Proto 1000, due 12/00. No "official" part numbers yet, even though some have been posted on the net. "Official" announcement is due within next two weeks. (I've confirmed direct) * C-Liner B's from Life Like Proto 1000 (I've confirmed direct) * Re-run of five-stripe BF-16's by E-R Models * Re-run of single-stripe BF-16's by E-R Models * Re-run of FP-7's by E-R Models Add to that the "most likely" release of the H16-44 by Miracle Castings and it will wrap up as quite a year for PRR diesel modelers! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 13:28:07 EDT Subject: [PRR] Finally setting the record straight about Miracle Castings Hey Yuze Gize... That highlighted part below about "one guy knew and...Yada, Yada, Yada" was me, except I had not checked my mail in a few days and then I got involved, but responded immediately at that point. There are several manufacturers on this list big and small and you all know who you are... Sometimes I am given privilege information and told not to release this information until told to do so and I have and will comply with the wishes of these manufactures, often I know more than I can tell. Some information could be potentially capsizing to a marketing scheme, and being in marketing myself for a small company (13 mill a year+) I totally understand. Like the Emails I continue to get about Highliner F units. I refuse to damage a personal friendship or business relationship commenting on anything that Paul Lubliner is doing, he is a very detail oriented individual and when you see it, it will be right. The same can be said of Bill Schneider, Nolen Null, John Arther/Dayna Warner, Pat Lawless and the list goes on. When I write my Scuttlebutt column I feel privileged to know what I am told and of course I try to write only that without speculation and sometimes the mark is missed by the manufacturers. But for the reasons you have seen here no one wants to be pinned down to anything specific and the information flow gets tougher in the future for all of us as a result. I have offered Jerry my help in eliminating situations like this in the future, and I can only hope that Pat and Jerry can work out their differences because supply chains are difficult establish and then reestablish. Case in point I received a letter from a fine fellow in Texas that didn't realize that MC had released the FM Erie built and contacted me trying to contact Pat Lawless, works for me, I'm willing to help. This gentlemen, like nearly 200 Million other American citizens (I won't speak for Canada and other nations where these products are sold) are not online and don't wish to take on another HOBBY (i.e., the computer). I hooked him up directly with Pat, mission accomplished, no eCommerce necessary just the good old fashioned "telly." I was happy to help, I get paid to help, in my opinion not a lot mind you, but the Scuttlebutt Column is paying position. At times it is a curse and others a breath of fresh air. They often gripe at me about Bob Hundman, but they realize I cannot change him and actually he has only editorial effects on me... I can tell you this that all these manufactures do this for you the modeler and we have to be respectful of what it takes to produce on single project ... just one may take 2 years to develop, per a conversation with John Arther, and I believe him. I have heard others say the same thing. Many times I advise on projects, in the past with Life Like, Branchline, on going with Walthers, and were I can with others. Sometimes technical sometime in review of things, e.g., the two Highliner shells sitting here awaiting glass and stainless parts, one with a pilot I like, one that I ask him to correct. I will continue to help in this manner without asking a dime from the industry, I am glad to help. So let's put this behind us, be respectful of the manufacturers and if you have a questions, like is Life Like going to do the FA in EL paint(?), when will we see the NH MacGinnis Scheme (received these this morning)? I will field them and get back to you as soon as I can, but I cannot compromise my column in Mainline Modeler and most information flow on general releases and scheduling will be there. Thanks so much and let's not do this to each other... Greg Martin a real SOB with NMRA/PSR and therefore Feared... Feared of what I ask ... big deal... #^> (me in disguise with my glasses and scarf on) ================================================ Original snippage... ================================================ jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << I, for one, am glad MC is still in business. Unfortunately, I was given poor information from two other vendors...and they are on this list and they know who they are. Also, unfortunately, at least one person on the list who knew otherwise chose to keep quite (quiet) until after the fiasco. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] Thanks from Miracle Castings Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:49:58 -0400 Hi all! I'd just like to publicly thank those of you who took the time to e-mail me your support. We really appreciate it. Needless to say, I was a little ticked off. As a manufacturer (and you would get the same opinion from any other manufacturer of any other type of product), we expect that there is an implied element of trust between us and our dealers. If you were a dealer for Ford cars or IBM computers, and you started spreading false rumours about those companies, they'd drop-kick you into the middle of next week so fast there'd be scorch marks on your underwear. (Not to mention the fact that they would unleash hordes of salivating lawyers to crucify you) Especially if you didn't bother to take even the most basic steps to validate your rumour. This is totally unacceptable to us, and that is the reason I was so angry. Sorry if I put anybody off with my tone, but I'm human too, and I've worked by butt off to try to get this company off the ground. I expect the odd rumour ( I usually just shrug them off) but not from someone who's supposed to be on our side, and who's made significant amounts of money from our products! Anyway, enough babbling. Thanks again for the encouragement, and I'll keep you posted about any new developments. Regards, Pat Lawless Miracle Castings Inc. - Manufacturers of fine resin model railroad kits. Web site: http://mc.cyklone.com/ Phone: (519) 754-6945 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 17:32:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Finally setting the record straight about Miracle Greg & List Greg, you rascal, Thank you for the kind words on behalf of small manufacturers. You are right. You have the confidence of everyone we speak to and are doing a great job. You were one of the first people to know how sick John really was. You were one of the first people to know about the Wilmington Station and even the tender project. It's very hard to do a good job "fast." I'm expecting the roof for the first Wilmington building to be delivered tomorrow. I know there are people out there who are getting anxious and I would ask them to stop and think that over the course of two years things happen that you have no control over, such as illness, deaths in the family, etc. While these things do not affect large businesses as much, they can certainly hurt the little guy. But we have learned something. Our requests for help were heard by many people on this and other lists and we were honestly surprised at how many strangers were willing to become friends and help. This is more rewarding than money. We will never be General Motors and don't care. So...we continue on knowing we have a responsibility to our customers and the love of the hobby. Thanks, Dayna ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:28:20 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Subject: Partial bibliography of CT1000's, 2nd revision Year issued: 1945 1923 1918 ? 1915 1913 1911 ? 1901 1900 1899 See note 2 CT1000 in and after 1899 ? 1895 CR76 in and before 1895 ? 1891 ? 1888 1887 ? 1882 ? 1879 See note 1 ? Any earlier than 1879? 1) Bob Johnson noted that he doesn't have anything to prove that the 1879 book from which he has some copied pages was Form C. R. 76. 2) Thinking on what Bob said, I can't prove the 1899 "List of Stations etc..." was Form C. T. 1000. The title page of the 1900 CT1000 says "...superseding the edition of 1899". It doesn't refer to the 1899 book by name nor by form number. So I suppose it could have been "List of Stations etc...." Form C. R. 76. Comments: I now have a copy of Supplement 1 for the 1945 CT1000. Every page says it is CT1000 Supplement 1, but doesn't mention any date. It appears to be a set of pages intended to replace pages in the CT1000, but so far, I haven't been able to spot a difference between the original and replacement pages. (Not saying there is no difference, just that I haven't been able to see it/them.) Speculation: CT1000 was issued in 1911, 1913, 1915. Thus there ought to have been one in 1917. But, by 1917 the US was getting involved in WW1, PRR was making preparations to transfer the many RR's and Rwy's west of Pittsburgh from Pennsylvania Company to PRR, and Washington was getting ready to impose USRA on everybody. So, I'd bet that for any two of those reasons, printing a new CT1000 was delayed. Anyone have a different take on it? Request(s): If you have information which would fill in the gaps, please get in touch. Along the way, I've found that P. L. 506 was a Pennsylvania Lines document a lot like the PRR's CT1000. Also, the LIRR had a Form CR4, which from it's title sounds like it too is a CT1000-type document. Any further information on those would be welcome. Someone asked a while ago if the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines had a CT1000. I saw a PRSL Track Chart once, and it sure looked like a PRR track chart; same lettering style, same everything except for the RR name. Maybe there was a PRSL CT1000 equivalent. Any info on that? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:39:25 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Aerotrain Question I was reading the Color Pictorial History of the PRR and they state that the Aerotrain was pulled by a G between New York and Philadelphia. I have never seena picture of this. Is this true? If so did it pull the engine also or was it added at Philadelphia? If it isn't true does this mean they used the diesel through the tunnels at New York? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Fishbelly reefers? Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:00:31 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell I've seen lots of photos and film of fishbelly reefers in head-end service on PRR passenger trains. Of course, they're generally not next to the locomotive and so well weathered that no markings of any kind can be seen. From what I can see, they resemble REA wood reefers (ie, Fine N Scale 2003), but with fishbelly sides. Does anybody have any info on these cars? Thanks! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA Boxcars, flatcars, going-to-North Platte cars... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:18:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Fishbelly reefers? Dennis & folks, You mentioned 'fishbelly' reefers, and at first I was thinking of fishbelly centersills, before it dawned that you were speaking of sidesills. From what I recall from the various articles on milk train operations, it seems a number of roads, such as NYC and D&H, had cars of this type. Seems to me most of them were milk cars rather than pure reefers, and many of them were owned by dairy operations. (Seems there were some express reefers of this configuration, though I don't think they were REA owned). One sure giveaway would be the absence of ice hatchs; most milk cars were actually insulated 'box cars' or disguised tank cars. You might take a look at the F&C resin car kits in the Walthers HO catalog to see if any of their many cars match up with what you've seen. Might be a starting point for modeling tips. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:38:07 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRR container flat cars ca. 1945 PRR was still running flat cars loaded with their 8-foot containers into the mid- and perhaps late-40's. There were two cars used, the 40 foot FM and the 60-some foot F31. There held 5 and 8 containers respectively. It was not unusual to see 1 or 2 F31's in an "express" train. That is, those trains of "head end" cars terminated by a single coach or combine or caboose. The question: Were the F31 container flats equiped with a steam line, or did the folks in the riding car have to dress warm? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 17:16:52 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR container flat cars ca. 1945 In a message dated 7/24/00 3:44:51 PM Central Daylight Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: << PRR was still running flat cars loaded with their 8-foot containers into the mid- and perhaps late-40's. There were two cars used, the 40 foot FM and the 60-some foot F31. There held 5 and 8 containers respectively.>> Confirming, the 1985 issue of the Keystone covering container service stated that the container FMs stayed in the low 600's until about 1950. The 1953 ORER lists 79 FMs for container service, but I don't know how much container service they saw by then. The 25 F31s were down to 10 by 1938, 7 by 1948, and none by 1950. <> Bob, I am not sure what era you are discussing, but to say the F31s were "not unusual" in an express train is news to me. I have previously questioned the caption on the photo on page 275 of PPII, where it identifies an Erie-built-led train with FM containers and X40b merchandise cars as "very long mail and express #14" near Gould's, Ohio". I would love to see other photos 'cuz it t'would be fun to run 'em in my favorite trains, mail and express. <> I always say never say never, but the container cars weren't originally equipped with steamlines and I am unaware if there was an exception. When I raised the issue about the above question, it was pointed out to me that in the segment described, #14 apparently had no passenger-carrying cars in its consist,so lack of steam lines in the FMs and the X40bs wasn't an issue. Can't say it wasn't done,but I just haven't seen photo and video evidence. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Joseph Schwieterman" Subject: [PRR] Need photo: Greenfield, IN Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 17:59:46 CDT My search for a photograph--any good photograph!--of PRR/Penn Central/Amtrak/Conrail railroad operations in Greenfield, Indiana, has turned up nothing but a locomotive roster shot and a blurry WWI shot. Does anybody have anything? Would like to use in book publication. JPS ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:00:02 EDT Subject: [PRR] Double & tripleheading Mountains Folks, My father and I just visited the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum in Strasburg, PA today (highly recommended by the way). His eyes fastened on the M-1b in the yard. He remarked as a boy in Weirton WV, watching triple-headed M-1s slowing moving an 80 car ore train (60 ton cars) down the slight slope from Avenue B north towards New Cumberland so that the train could be backed into the ore yard there. I'm not doubting that he saw triple-headed steamers, but I'm wondering if they were Mountains. He specifically remembers a lot of driver wheels. Maybe they were Decapods? Has anyone else observed this or know of this practice? Did Mountains have to be doubled or tripled? Thanks, George Pandelios ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:01:39 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Help,parts wanted Hello All... I'm in the middle of building some cars and rebuilding some engines and being in a area where it is hard to get things Pennsy, i'd thought i'd ask here to see if anyone can help. I have two Walthers Pullmans that need help. I'm looking for any interior parts for these cars mainly Walthers Pullman seats. Also i have some Central Valley trucks for them,but i'm looking for the bolters and king pins that go with them. Also any Central Valley brake shoes kits that go with these types of trucks. I also have a Walthers RPO that i'm rebuilding for the Western Maryland that also needs bolters and king pins. I can also use underfloor parts for these cars too. Roof vents are also needed for a 13 DB.BR. car. I have a old Bowser H-9 that needs a new boiler,if anyone has a spare please let me know. Also for this engine i would like to find a MDC low side "Pennsy" tender. All i need is the body and underframe,no trucks. Then i have three MP-54 cars that are in need of pantographs. Old Walthers long type or Rivarossi/AHM/IHC types will also do. And lastly there is a E-7a and E-8a that are in need of the roof top antennas. Please let me know "off List" if you have anything i can use. If anyone has heavyweight or lightweight Pullmans that they are thinking of selling please let me know. I'm always looking for stuff. (Ok i know about E-bay,but sometimes that doesn't help either.) Please write when you can. And thanks. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MarkCFry@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 01:28:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5E Cabin Car - update In a message dated 7/19/00 6:28:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, walpru@stargate.net writes: << I am unaware of a class N-5/F. From the description, "an N-5 cabin rebuilt with an N-8 coupola", I tend to believe you have an N-5E there. From Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania and Long Island Railroads, the N-5E class is described as a designed (not rebuilt) introduced in 1945 with the body of an N-5 and an off centered N-8 cupola. Differed from the N-5 in that the belt rail was omitted and shorter double windows were applied to the sides. Don't know how much this info helps. >> Walt and group... As it turns out, Walt was right. The cabin I saw in the shop is in fact an N-5E. My mistake. Unusual creature, one that I might just have to buy! Ironically, I've come across a second one now. This one is also custom painted. One is painted with the yellow cupola and the other with the orange cupola. As I believe this particular class was a rare one, I'm not sure which one is right. I understand yellow was for East/West Pool service, and some have suggested that the orange cupola was for Pool Service - Electrified Territory. I'm trying to track this down for the N-5E class to see if they/it were ever painted either way, or both ways! If anyone may have info, I'd appreciate the input. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:47:18 -0700 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5E Cabin Car - update Hi Mark, All, Both of the Color Guides from Morning Sun have pics of the N5E #477594. Volume one shows it at "Conway in 1968" with a yellow cupola, black roof on the body only and "Focal Orange?" body. On the cupola, between the windows, is a red square with a white dot and some lettering I can't read. Text states it was "originally built in Oct. 1929" (as an N5). Text further states it was "rebuilt" (into N5E) "in 1945". Volume two shows it in "May, 1967" in Focal Orange with Black roofs on both body and cupola. Both pics show it with Plain Keystone. Hope this helps some. Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] N-5E Cabin Car Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 07:08:49 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BFF607.2E709F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark & List, That photo in Pennsy Cabin Cars shows N5E #477594 with a yellow cupola. = But a couple of points though: 1 Write up states that this class was introduced in 1945, but the built = date clearly shows as 10-29. Which is correct? 2.A while back, a discussion took place here as to how many of these = cabins were built. I seem to recall that it was left that this was a = "one shot deal". True or false? 3.I bashed a couple of these from (I think) Life-Like bodies and Tyco = cupolas more than a few years ago. I tried the Tyco bash of N8, = which didn't work out all that well, and I had to do something = with the parts.=20 Walt ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BFF607.2E709F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark & List,
That photo in Pennsy Cabin Cars shows N5E #477594 = with a=20 yellow cupola. But a couple of points though:
1 Write up states that this class was introduced in = 1945, but=20 the built date clearly         shows as = 10-29.=20 Which is correct?
2.A while back, a discussion took place here as to = how many of=20 these cabins were     built. I seem to recall that it was = left=20 that this was a "one shot deal". True or     =    =20     false?
3.I bashed a couple of these from (I think) = Life-Like bodies=20 and Tyco cupolas more     than a few years ago. I tried = the Tyco=20 bash of N8, which didn't work out all that     =    =20 well, and I had to do something with the parts.
 
Walt
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BFF607.2E709F80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:52:53 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Brancline's 6100-series REA Reefers From: Jerry Britton Branchline recently released details about their 6100-series REA reefers. (In fact, yesterday I added the 13 part numbers to my eStore for advance reservation.) There are four different REA paint schemes and two different ACL paint schemes. Besides the "as delivered" scheme (seen in the recent Model Railroader ad), Branchline is referring to two of them as "1950's" and "1960's". I'm not sure what the cutover was between the "1950's" and "1960's" schemes, but the "1950's" scheme actually started in 1953, per Vic Roseman's book. So, if you are mid 1950's, like me, a few of the original scheme and a few of the "1950's" scheme works just fine! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad,Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:07:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR container flat cars ca. 1945 In a message dated 7/25/00 6:27:28 AM Central Daylight Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: << I suppose someone living in, say, Bolivar, PA would have a distorted view of 6-axle coal gondolas. "Oh yeah, every few days you'd see one. Must have been dozens of them." >> On other lists, I have commented on that phenomena. Some modelers ( I have sometimes tended to be one of them) try to model the typical rather than the one-of-a-kind. Putting on my other hat, I commented that someone who lived on the Fort Wayne Division in 1942 might have thought the S1 was the most common locomotive in the world. I have had similar experiences by hanging out at Hammond, Indiana. I have multiple video shots on Conrail in the 90's of one of those few remaining flatcars still lettered in Pennsylvania. Also, the jumbo 12 wheel and bolster-truck 16-wheel tankcars and one orange IC 86 foot hi-cube. Plus SD60M 6500 which I just happened to have a model of. The guy modeling the line near a large transformer plant could probably see the Schnabel car with a deal of frequency. Or, for that matter, the yards in Milwaukee saw heavy duty flats regularly because my former employer Allis-Chalmers shipped large power transformers about one a week. Keep those memories that aren't photos -- I still remember my only two PRR steam experiences--a T1 at Chicago Union Station and a J1 in 1956 at Beverly on S. Side of Chicago. Bob Zoeller Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:57:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Keith B. Thompson - Sun" Subject: [PRR] PRR Font Hello, I am looking for a font that matches the characters used by PRR on their MP54 cars during the 40's. I need to create decals for these cars in S scale. Does anyone know a good match for this? kbt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:09:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5E Cabin Car On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Walt Prusick wrote: > Mark & List, > That photo in Pennsy Cabin Cars shows N5E #477594 with a yellow cupola. > But a couple of points though: > 1 Write up states that this class was introduced in 1945, but the built > date clearly shows as 10-29. Which is correct? Remember the N5E was a rebuild. Presumably both are correct. > 2.A while back, a discussion took place here as to how many of these > cabins were built. I seem to recall that it was left that this was a > "one shot deal". True or false? True. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Joe Witcofsky" Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5E Cabin Car - update Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:54:02 -0700 Ron and List: The red square with a white dot and some lettering onthe cupola, between the windows, is a "Radiation" Radio Equipped decal, similar to the decals applied to the GG-1s, some E-44s, and some classes of road diesels. In this case, the decal indicated that the cabin was equipped with Wabco "duo-phone", which was in fact a system in which the conductor's portable 2 channel vhf radio was plugged into an adapter, and was run from and amplified by the cabin's axel - alternator. The portable was then connected to the cabin car's vhf antenna. As a portable, the radio had a detatchable wire antenna, and was powered by 2 lantern batteries. It was manufactured/marketed by Wabco. It lasted into the PC era. Without the duo-phone, the cabin was not separately equipped. This was during the transition period, during the conversion from trainphone to vhf radio. Once all cabins were converted, the decals became redundant and were discontinued. Joe Witcofsky ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Dugas To: Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5E Cabin Car - update > Hi Mark, All, > > Both of the Color Guides from Morning Sun have pics of the N5E #477594. > > Volume one shows it at "Conway in 1968" with a yellow cupola, black roof > on the body only and "Focal Orange?" body. On the cupola, between the > windows, is a red square with a white dot and some lettering I can't > read. Text states it was "originally built in Oct. 1929" (as an N5). > Text further states it was "rebuilt" (into N5E) "in 1945". > > Volume two shows it in "May, 1967" in Focal Orange with Black roofs on > both body and cupola. > > Both pics show it with Plain Keystone. > > Hope this helps some. > > Ron. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MarkCFry@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:01:38 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5E Cabin Car In a message dated 7/25/00 7:10:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, walpru@stargate.net writes: << That photo in Pennsy Cabin Cars shows N5E #477594 with a yellow cupola. But a couple of points though: 1 Write up states that this class was introduced in 1945, but the built date clearly shows as 10-29. Which is correct? 2.A while back, a discussion took place here as to how many of these cabins were built. I seem to recall that it was left that this was a "one shot deal". True or false? 3.I bashed a couple of these from (I think) Life-Like bodies and Tyco cupolas more than a few years ago. I tried the Tyco bash of N8, which didn't work out all that well, and I had to do something with the parts. >> Walt and Ron; Thanks for your input! Walt, I think Ron's post answers your questions. I've been told that the N-5E was in fact a 'one shot deal'. As for the built dates, I understand that this was a rebuild from an accident, so the original built date would most likely have corresponded to the built date as an N-5, then rebuilt into N-5E in 1945. So Walt, if you bashed a 'couple' of these, you have one more than actually existed! As for the color scheme, Ron thanks for the references. This clinches it! I didn't think the orange coupola was correct. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BlockTruck@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:35:56 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5E Cabin Car - STILL EXISTS With all the chat about the lone N-5E, I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that this cabin still exists. It is on display next to the station in Utica, NY, along with an original 1937 Super Chief diner, an RSC-3 (or RSD-4, I can't recall) and an NYC 0-6-0. It is in a tough location for photographs on the North side of the museum next door, but it's there. It is painted PENNSYLVANIA. With no disrespect to any of the volunteers who GAVE their TIME and MONEY to get it painted, it doesn't match any PRR paint scheme I've ever seen. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:11:50 -0400 From: Dave Pfeiffer Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain Question I don't know what was done in the Hudson tunnels, but having seen it at Frankford Junction in Philadelphia, I know there was no G when passing through Philly. Dave At 10:39 AM 7/24/00 EDT, NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: >I was reading the Color Pictorial History of the PRR and they state that the Aerotrain was pulled by a G between New York and Philadelphia. I have never seena picture of this. Is this true? If so did it pull the engine also or was it added at Philadelphia? If it isn't true does this mean they used the diesel through the tunnels at New York? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Need photo: Greenfield, IN Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:17:31 -0400 Joseph: I believe that there is one published photo of a westbound PRR passenger train between Greenfield and Indianapolis. It is in one of the Pennsy Diesel Years books. Personally, I do not have the books in front of me so I do not know which volume. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Schwieterman [mailto:j_schwieterman@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 6:00 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Need photo: Greenfield, IN My search for a photograph--any good photograph!--of PRR/Penn Central/Amtrak/Conrail railroad operations in Greenfield, Indiana, has turned up nothing but a locomotive roster shot and a blurry WWI shot. Does anybody have anything? Would like to use in book publication. JPS ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:15:18 DST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font From: aurora7@juno.com Good luck! I have been trying to obtain the PRR lettering font for the computer so I can replicate some accurate lettering for various projects. If you get a satisfactory answer, do let me know! Dick Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:03:36 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font In a message dated 7/25/00 5:57:23 PM Central Daylight Time, aurora7@juno.com writes: << If you get a satisfactory answer, do let me know! >> Me, too! Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:34:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain Question From: Fred G Rea Did the Aerotrain equipment run East of Philly at all? I thought it was just a Philly-Pittsburgh train. My June 1956 Public TT shows a litttle symbol for the stops between Philly and NYC and a foot note says Connecting trainEast of Philadelphia. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:58:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain Question Fred Rea wrote: Did the Aerotrain equipment run East of Philly at all? I thought it was just a Philly-Pittsburgh train. My June 1956 Public TT shows a litttle symbol for the stops between Philly and NYC and a foot note says Connecting trainEast of Philadelphia. _______________________________ The July, 1957 Official Guide shows the same thing. I'd be interested to find out if it did run east of 30th Street, but one list member mentioned seeing it at Frandford Jct. Whether it was in revenue service there wasn't mentioned. Could it ever have been used in other service after ending Philley-Pittsburgh service, such as Atlantic City race track trains? As for running all the way to New York, that would have called for extremely tight timekeeping with a short overnight turnaround in Sunnyside. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. R. N. Witmer" Subject: [PRR] PRR Font Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:04:48 -0500 The font is way out of the mainstream, but it is called Craw Clarendon. A number of Mac-head rail fans in the past had created railroad-related fonts, and these might be available on the web. I've seen a Railroad Roman that, IIFC could be used. I did some investigation about eight years ago and found a photo typesetter who actually had the Craw Clarendon font available, but this was back in Richmond, VA a little before computer typesetting took over everything. Good luck, Captain Jack in Chicago ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:27:55 +1000 There is a web site for someone who recreates "Railroad" fonts Unfortunately I haven't got the URL Try Typing in "Railroad Fonts" on your search engine. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:04:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font In a message dated 7/25/00 8:30:05 PM Central Daylight Time, prr@unite.com.au writes: << There is a web site for someone who recreates "Railroad" fonts Unfortunately I haven't got the URL >> Thought I had it,but lost the bookmark in one of my computer crashes. However, at the time I don't believe Pennsy fonts were on the site. Bob zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:49:16 -0300 From: Gene Beam Subject: [PRR] PRR Font I don't know if this is what your looking for but you can give it a try. http://www.rrdepot.com/misc/fonts.shtml http://www.aloha.net/~joym/fonts/fontlink.htm http://www.railfonts.com/Info/freebe.html http://www.railfonts.com/Info/catalog.html Another railroad site http://www.link-rail.com/usa/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:38:16 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Aerotrain Hello guys.... Ok here is what i have. This is from a Pennsy ETT dated April 28th,1957. No.3 Philadelphia Region. (from page 36)Train no.17 Aerotrain shows times between 30th st.(lower level) at 7:15 am to Banks at 9:14 am no times shown between Holmesburg Jct. and 30th st. (from page 167)Train no.16 Aerotrain shows times between Banks at 6:30 pm to 30th st. (again lower level) at 8:35pm (from page 221)1017-A1. Train signals Aerotrain(complete unit for passenger train operation built by General Motors) is equipped with standard train signals and with rotating white searchlights and rotating red searchlights on front of engine and rotating red searchlights on rear car. Rule 17 and Rule 102 as they apply to the use of oscillating lights,will apply to the use of these rotating lights on both single and two or more tracks. (from pages 235 and 236)General order 301 d and e Aerotrain (complete unit for passenger train operation built by General Motors) Maximum speeds unless otherwise specified Maximum speed for Aerotrain when powered with Engine 1000(class EP-12 diesel engine) and train consists entirely of special type Aerotrain cars: (note it goes on to list sections of the main line and various speed limits for this train, which would take too much space to list here) Speeds were between 50 and 100 mph. No mention anywhere is made of this train running on the New York Div. In a earlier e-mail to another person on the list i mentioned tunnel and low clearance restrictions pertaining to this train. This was not the case. I had gotten it confused with the "Keystone" tubular train which had such restrictions on the use of the diesel power car(diesel load was to be reduced in tunnels and under 30th st. lower level..i.e. putting diesel power unit in the "low heat" setting.) Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:37:52 -0400 From: Nick Kulp Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font Listers, I just purchased some fonts from this site. Great product. I purchased the Railroad Roman and different Loco and heavyweight passenger cars . I hope they are what everyone on the list is lookung for. Nick Kulp >If you have any questions about the download or installation, please check >our Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) area at: >http://railfonts.com/Info/faq.html >Or send and Email to zephyr@railfonts.com > >Thank you for your order. > >Regards, > >Daniel Dawdy and Benn Coifman >- >Ribbon Rail Productions - World Wide Web Publishing >319 N. Naperville Road, PMB 348 Bolingbrook, IL 60440 >Voice 630.969.7837 - Data 800.783.0127 - ddawdy@ribbonrail.com > > At 11:27 AM 7/26/00 +1000, you wrote: >There is a web site for someone who recreates "Railroad" fonts >Unfortunately I haven't got the URL >Try Typing in "Railroad Fonts" on your search engine. >Graeme Nitz >PRRT&HS Member #1313 >prr@unite.com.au >An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" >With a touch of Reading. > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:21:41 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font Insofar as the font was the copyrighted property of the long gone PRR (sigh :-( ), I don't believe that copying it from anywhere you can get it is a violation of anyone else's copyright. Therefore you should be able to scan available decals, or better yet a builder's foto. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== aurora7@juno.com wrote: > > Good luck! I have been trying to obtain the PRR lettering font for the > computer so I can replicate some accurate lettering for various projects. > If you get a satisfactory answer, do let me know! > > Dick > > Richard Glueck > Peace of the Planet Farm > Winterport, Maine > > _ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BlockTruck@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:18:01 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font I would recommend against scanning decals -- those probably ARE copyrighted. I suggest you contact Champ Decal. Rich will now custom print decals from his existing artwork in small quantities. I'm guessing on an ADDS printer, but that's beside the point. Pick the sets you want from his HO scale line and ask if he can enlarge them to S scale. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:08:27 -0400 From: Dave Pfeiffer Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain Question While I can't tell you any dates when we saw the Aerotrain at Frankford Junction, I know it was early on in it's service for the PRR. I believe it was running NYC to Pittsburgh at that time. If it were running Philly to Pittsburgh, it would not have passed through Fkd Jct.. I never heard of it running to Atlantic City or on the race trains. When we went to Fkd Jct, we went to the pedestrian bridge over the Fkd Jct yard which is east of Shore interlocking near Ford tower. The train was on the corridor west bound probably in the 7 to 8 AM time frame. I guess it's possible that it originated in Newark so it did not have to go through the tunnels, but I have no idea where it would have been serviced. I know we have 8mm movies of this, but I will have to check for snap shots that I could scan. Dave Pfeiffer At 08:58 PM 7/25/00 EDT, BPX29@aol.com wrote: >Fred Rea wrote: > >Did the Aerotrain equipment run East of Philly at all? I thought it was >just a Philly-Pittsburgh train. My June 1956 Public TT shows a litttle >symbol for the stops between Philly and NYC and a foot note says >Connecting trainEast of Philadelphia. >_______________________________ > >The July, 1957 Official Guide shows the same thing. I'd be interested to find >out if it did run east of 30th Street, but one list member mentioned seeing >it at Frandford Jct. Whether it was in revenue service there wasn't >mentioned. Could it ever have been used in other service after ending >Philley-Pittsburgh service, such as Atlantic City race track trains? As for >running all the way to New York, that would have called for extremely tight >timekeeping with a short overnight turnaround in Sunnyside. >Barry Peltier > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:53:35 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] PRR Font Those of you with access to AOL, there was a RR Roman font several years ago in the downloadable files. It is a truetype font and looks very close to the PRR version to me. I don't know if it is still there but it was a shareware program. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:10:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font From: Jerry Britton On 7/26/00 10:53 AM, NDBPRR@aol.com (NDBPRR@aol.com) wrote: > Those of you with access to AOL, there was a RR Roman font several years ago > in the downloadable files. It is a truetype font and looks very close to the > PRR version to me. I don't know if it is still there but it was a shareware > program. > That font is a TrueType version of the shareware Railroad Roman previously referred to. It is close, but not exact, to the PRR font. Those of you who know typography will quickly see the differences in the serifs and in some of the weights. There are also differences in the horizontal scaling. There is a Clarendon font from Adobe, but it also differs from the PRR's Craw Clarendon. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:15:40 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Athearn Genesis 2-8-2 in PRR From: Jerry Britton Athearn just announced that, to meet demand, they will be running another batch of PRR 2-8-2's over the next few months. This is the USRA Light Mikado, PRR class L2s. The PRR had five of these and they spent their time on Lines West. The model appears in a two-page photo in the current issue of Model Railroader as the "Reader's Choice Product of the Year". It is, truly, a beautiful model...just not appropriate for my layout! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:00:58 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Genesis 2-8-2 in PRR Jerry: Any word on the road number for this batch? There was a rumor that it would be different than the 9627 and 9630 already run... Thanks, Jeff Warner Jerry Britton wrote: > Athearn just announced that, to meet demand, they will be running another > batch of PRR 2-8-2's over the next few months. > > This is the USRA Light Mikado, PRR class L2s. The PRR had five of these and > they spent their time on Lines West. > > The model appears in a two-page photo in the current issue of Model > Railroader as the "Reader's Choice Product of the Year". It is, truly, a > beautiful model...just not appropriate for my layout! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:04:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Genesis 2-8-2 in PRR From: Jerry Britton On 7/26/00 1:00 PM, Jeff Warner (jwarner@ptd.net) wrote: > Any word on the road number for this batch? There was a rumor that it would > be > different than the 9627 and 9630 already run... > Yes, #9629. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:59:02 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Aerotrain pictures I just visited the Bowser web site where there are numerous pictures of the Aerotrain. The pictures were provided by Chuck Jordan of GM who was apparently invovled in the design and construction. If you follow the Aerotrain link at the bottom of the Aerotrain web page are two sets of pictures. In the frist group #11-14 are of the train on the PRR including three color photos. In the second group of 33 or 34 are several interesting shots including the original sketch, making the clay model, an inerior shot of a coach, a porter stowing luggage in the OUTSIDE accesible compartment, making the engine at La Grange, engine underbody and engine interior. All good info. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Reinhold Subject: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:33:23 -0500 Jerry and List Members, I may be opening a real can-o-worms, so Jerry, stop me if you think it best. I've been talking to some of my customers about what they (and I) want or need in the area of PRR freight cars. Over the past few months these chats have pointed out that we seem to believe that a Bowser X-29 would sell very well. We came up with the following to support our statement. 1. the prototype had a huge number of these cars, we copy these quanitities in our modeling, so an easily assembled kit is in order here. 2 the Walthers car, to be frank, just doesn't come close to the detail standard that we expect from todays one piece plastic bodied car kits (detailing these kits means more time and $). 3. The Red Caboose kit is very nice, but very time intensive for fleet quantities (BTW none of this group wants to knock this kit). This group of modelers would like to assemble the fleet Quantity cars quickly so as to have the time for building the lesser numbered classes from the offering of Sunshine and Westerfield. What do the rest of think, are we on the money or missing the mark ? Pete Reinhold Paint Plus Trains PRRT&HS #5518 NMRA L4415 Prairie Du Sac, Wi. paintplustrains@chorus.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? Pete, List, I will be the first to debate the idea of an X-29 from Bowser. Myself, I wouldn't produce it or purchase one. This is why. Red Caboose X-29 cars can be had for about the same price as a Bowser car. And you get add on details with the R.C. With practice Red Caboose cars can be built in 1/2 hr. Personally I would build a fleet of any Red Caboose PRR cars over any Bowser PRR cars. Thats my opinion. There are plenty of other car classes that Bowser can take a shot at to fill the voids, ie: ore jennies, x-23's and oh yeah, the elusive N-8 Cabins noone seems to want to produce.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:35:49 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? In a message dated 7/26/00 4:51:30 PM Central Daylight Time, preinhol@unidie.com writes: << What do the rest of think, are we on the money or missing the mark ? >> I'm a poor guy to poll, because I don't need hundreds of cars, so I favor more detailed cars to quantity. However, I would rather see Bowser tool a GL hopper first, certainly another car needed in fleets. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:31:35 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] another truc-train trailer ? Hello all... I might have found another PRR truc-train trailer near here. While traveling to meet a former co-worker about side work i noticed a trailer that for all the world looks like one of the older PRR trac-train trailers. Its located on U.S.17 (locally known as George Washington Hwy.) in Portsmouth,Va. near the Norfolk Naval Shipyard. Its also only two blocks from the Norfolk-Portsmouth Beltline RR. It appears to be used for storage for a used tire place thats next door to it. If any of you are familar with them,its very similar to the two shown on page 123 of the "PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment-Vol.2". Especially the one to the right in the picture. Its much older than the one i found out in the junk yard in Suffolk and even has the diagonal metal band where the words "Pennsylvania Railroad" should be. I can't think of another railroad or trucking company that had that diagonal band on their trailers,i don't know of one. Its difinetly from the 1950's as compared to the 1960's Suffolk trailer i found. Its also in much better shape than the Suffolk trailer too. It has no where near the body rust and rot that the Suffolk trailer has,which is remarkable given that its older. At one time someone repainted it a dull flat yellow though. It appears to be either a 28 ft. or 34 ft. trailer. If anyone has pictures that they can send to me here on the net,please do as i'd like to positively identify it. I plan on going back and checking on it in more detail soon (i'll see if theres any builders info still on it.) and take some pictures and measurements of it so some can perhaps identify it better than i can. If it is one of the early "Truc-train" trailers it would be worth saving because of the remarkable shape its in. Please feel free to write me if you have any info on these older trailers. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:55:50 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Another X-29...WHAT? Listers, I like their are other classes of cars i would invest in before "re-inventing the wheel" onl to realize less an a satisfying market share. What do you all think about a good X-37 car. Not as many in numbers or how about a good H-31? If you want a car with a PENNSY appeal, try this. Lee and I just talked about tooling cost and the loss of a his in house engineer... YIKES Here's one I keep promoting, how about the R-50b... I think I have a manufacturer intrested in this car finally as well as the REAX riveted car... We'll see after the NMRA convention. Greg Martin still banned by the NMRA/PSR/Cajon Div. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:10:59 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? Peter, list, Bowser was planning to do an X-29. They announced this more or less simultaneously with Tichy, C&BT shops (both are working on X-29 rebuilds, like the X-29b) and Red Caboose. Bowser later announced that they didn't want to compete with the other companies and that there were plenty of other cars to make. I'm totally in favor of competition, but the market may not be large enough for 2 X-29s in HO. I model 1948 and I need a lot of them, but a growing fraction of the HO market models the 1970s and beyond, when these cars were relegated to Mof W service at best. Doug Peter Reinhold wrote: > Jerry and List Members, > > I may be opening a real can-o-worms, so Jerry, stop me if you think it > best. > > I've been talking to some of my customers about what they (and I) want or > need in the area of PRR freight cars. Over the past few months these chats > have pointed out that we seem to believe that a Bowser X-29 would sell very > well. > We came up with the following to support our statement. > > 1. the prototype had a huge number of these cars, we copy these > quanitities in our modeling, so an easily assembled kit is in order here. > > 2 the Walthers car, to be frank, just doesn't come close to the detail > standard that we expect from todays one piece plastic bodied car kits > (detailing these kits means more time and $). > > 3. The Red Caboose kit is very nice, but very time intensive for fleet > quantities (BTW none of this group wants to knock this kit). > > This group of modelers would like to assemble the fleet Quantity cars > quickly so as to have the time for building the lesser numbered classes > from the offering of Sunshine and Westerfield. > > What do the rest of think, are we on the money or missing the mark ? > > Pete Reinhold > Paint Plus Trains > PRRT&HS #5518 > NMRA L4415 > Prairie Du Sac, Wi. > paintplustrains@chorus.net > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:06:50 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Various Layout Site Updates From: Jerry Britton Tonight I updated three layout sites that I host... First, Chalrs Chandler has an HO scale version of the John Armstrong design for the Schuylkill Division. Photos are now posted. Second, a few weeks back Jerry Breon was kind enough to provide us with close-up shots of his brass C-liners for the purpose of helping those of us with the recently released Life Like Proto 1000 units to create trainphones accurately. He has now done the same for Erie-builts, PA-1's, Centipedes, and E-8's. Thank you, Jerry! Third, I have updated the Level B plan for my own layout, as well as added photos of a full size cardboard mockup I built demonstrating how the three levels integrate successfully. All for now...other than to report that "Keystone Crossings" served its quarter-millionth page tonight!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:16:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Another X-29...WHAT? From: Jerry Britton On 7/26/00 7:55 PM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com at (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > I like their are other classes of cars i would invest in before "re-inventing > the wheel" onl to realize less an a satisfying market share. Agreed. And it "might" hurt Red Caboose as well. They don't do it well, they do it great!!! I'd like to see RC do more PRR cars, but at the quality they produce, they invest about $40K in tooling...so the prospective car must appeal to more than PRR modelers. > > What do you all think about a good X-37 car. Not as many in numbers or how > about a good H-31? If you want a car with a PENNSY appeal, try this. Lee and > I just talked about tooling cost and the loss of a his in house engineer... Didn't realize he lost an engineer. Hope that doesn't hurt the GL project...yes, Bowser IS working on a GL hopper! > YIKES Here's one I keep promoting, how about the R-50b... I think I have a > manufacturer intrested in this car finally as well as the REAX riveted car... > We'll see after the NMRA convention. As Greg aludes to, he and I have been talking R-50b to several manufacturers, hoping one will produce this PRR-only car, of which there were 500 units, I believe. But every PRR modeler needs several!!!! Red Caboose said no, Bowser wants more info. InterMountain? Branchline? Bottom line: NO, we do not need another X-29. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SNY114@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:43:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Another X-29...WHAT? Another X-29?? I say no way. The RC one is great, although I'm still steamed that they went to all the trouble of making the different 1924 build of cars, but never offered it in the as-built paint scheme (for my 1925 pike). Grrrr... But we don't need another X-29. I'm still amazed at all the PS-1 kits released in the last 10 years... Why waste scarce development capital on cars already available? I say Bowser should continue working on a GLa model, or maybe GLc. That would be ok with me, although Westerfield has kits for those too, but we need large numbers of those and it does take time to do Westerfield kits. And Westerfield is still working on an X-23 kit, too (I asked Al a couple months ago about the prototypes shown at the PRRT&HS meeting 3 years ago). So I say no on an X-23 too. That's my 2 cents worth. Jim Anderson Thorndale, PA sny114@aol.com PRRT&HS 3995 Modeling Elmira Branch circa 1925 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:49:22 -0400 From: jpbtrans Subject: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Greetings one and all, A simple question,(I hope). Can someone give me some history on these sleepers. Names, examples of trains run in, or did they run on all pass trains? Thanks, Jon Anderson jpbtrans@gateway.net Member, PRRT&HS # 4716 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 21:38:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? In a message dated 7/26/00 7:49:54 PM Central Daylight Time, doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: << C&BT shops (both are working on X-29 rebuilds, like the X-29b) >> Now that C&BT X29B is what I am waiting for. The sample in Merchandise Service scheme (the original silver scheme, for which I believe this is the only car in the X29 family that is correct) was beautiful. The owner was having heart problems a year ago; hope he is OK (not for the car; he is a nice guy). Anyone know? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark T. Evans" Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:52:02 -0700 Dear Peter and the List: IMHO, the short answer to the subject question is NO! What we do need is some postwar PRR freight cars! To wit: X51 and subclasses X55a G31 and subclasses (how about some with PRR coil steel hoods as an option?) G36 and subclasses X47 X50 I find it quite interesting that, with all of the fine recent additions to the freight car kit ranks, there is still a ridiculous lack of proper postwar PRR freight cars (and freight car decals) available. Branchline's X44 version of their fine 50-ft. single door boxcar is a step in the right direction, but there are many more classes to be represented. As a side note, I for one prefer cars with separate ladders, grabs, and other detail parts. I agree with Mr. Bob Zoeller, who stated "I don't need hundreds of cars, so I favor more detailed cars to quantity." Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Reinhold" To: "PRR-TALK (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 2:33 PM Subject: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? > Jerry and List Members, > > I may be opening a real can-o-worms, so Jerry, stop me if you think it > best. > > I've been talking to some of my customers about what they (and I) want or > need in the area of PRR freight cars. Over the past few months these chats > have pointed out that we seem to believe that a Bowser X-29 would sell very > well. > We came up with the following to support our statement. > > 1. the prototype had a huge number of these cars, we copy these > quanitities in our modeling, so an easily assembled kit is in order here. > > 2 the Walthers car, to be frank, just doesn't come close to the detail > standard that we expect from todays one piece plastic bodied car kits > (detailing these kits means more time and $). > > 3. The Red Caboose kit is very nice, but very time intensive for fleet > quantities (BTW none of this group wants to knock this kit). > > This group of modelers would like to assemble the fleet Quantity cars > quickly so as to have the time for building the lesser numbered classes > from the offering of Sunshine and Westerfield. > > What do the rest of think, are we on the money or missing the mark ? > > Pete Reinhold > Paint Plus Trains > PRRT&HS #5518 > NMRA L4415 > Prairie Du Sac, Wi. > paintplustrains@chorus.net > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:01:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Mark T. Evans wrote: > Dear Peter and the List: > > IMHO, the short answer to the subject question is NO! > > What we do need is some postwar PRR freight cars! Yes. X58 would be nice -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "S J Lash" Subject: [PRR] From Sandra K Lash unsubscribe Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:15:16 -0400 "Unsubscribe" thank you ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:19:08 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? In a message dated 07/26/2000 9:06:46 PM Central Daylight Time, shadow@dementia.org writes: << Yes. X58 would be nice >> Amen to this thought and the later gondola classes as in an earlier post. There are also the H-49/50 classes of covered hoppers which currently must be kitbashed. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark T. Evans" Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:32:39 -0700 I don't know what I was thinking when I left out the X58's in my previous post. Yes, Derrick, these cars important, and should also be considered. Separate ladders/grabs on this one, please! Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick J Brashear" Cc: "PRR-TALK (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? > On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Mark T. Evans wrote: > > > Dear Peter and the List: > > > > IMHO, the short answer to the subject question is NO! > > > > What we do need is some postwar PRR freight cars! > > Yes. X58 would be nice > > -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:40:37 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] do we need another x-29 ? Hello... I too would vote no. As has been mentioned i'd also like to see a R-50b or H-31 or H-31a. If you want a box car...how about a kitbashable X-23 or X-26. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:03:15 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Jon, This is the kind of question I enjoy helping with. All the 4-4-2's were originally naned in the Imperial series; i wish I had more time at the moment to supply nanes, but that'l have to wait until tommorow, I'm afraid. These were a very high-class car, running in the better trains, and only a few roads had them. Pennsy got some in 1939 and a larger batch in 1948. As of 1957, for example, the following Pennsy trains carried them: Golden Triangle, Broadway, Spirit of St. Louis, and, in Florida service: East Coast Champion and Weekend Champion. Talk to ya later, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] Another H-21...WHAT? Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:07:38 -0500 If Bowser is looking for a car to redo, how about retooling the H-21 to have drilling dimple marks rather than the molded on grabs. How many would they have to sell to justify this? Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:43:09 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR cars needed ?? One car that Bowser could do would be the H-21g I believe. By using the new side Bowser has used with the clamshell cars that doesn't have the reinforcing rib at the top with the original sawtooth hopper bottoms. This way they would have a different version of the H-21 at NO additional mold cost. As I model the modern PRR what I would like to see would be : X-58 , G-38/39 All these cars have the benefit of multiple rr names on the same car. The X-58 would be PRR, LV, PC,CR and possibly NS. The G-38/39 would be PRR, PC and CR. One benefit of the ore car would be the need for more than one on most model rr's. -------------------------------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:38:11 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Early Chicago schedules From: John Clark I am in need of local schedules for Chicago for the years between 1860 and 1870, I am interested in obtaining xerox copies of the service between Chicago and Valparaiso. Thanks in advance John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 00:49:23 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Greetings to Jon and the List: Besides the trains Barry notes, 4 compartment, 4 double bedrooms, 2 drawing room sleepers were used on the Pittsburgher, Trains 60-61, from at least 1941 on and possibly (even probably) as early as 1938 or 1939. The Pittsburgher was not among the initial June 15, 1938, "Fleet of Modernism" group of trains but very quickly joined them as soon as enough streamlined cars arrived from the builders to enable PRR to replace heavyweight sleepers on the Pittsburgher and its Lines West counterpart, the Golden Triangle (overnight Pitts-Chicago train). Two 4-4-2 cars were renamed in 1956 as part of the 22-sleeper renaming to honor Pittsburgh industrialists and pioneers, for specific assignment to 60 and 61. They were: Imperial Brink, blt by ACF 1948, renamed H.J. Heinz in 8/56, renamed Andrew W. Mellon 9/56, car number PRR 8387 Imperial Cliff, blt by ACF 1948, renamed B.F. Jones 8/56, renamed Richard Beatty Mellon 9/56, PRR number 8388. The story of the quick second renaming is too long to recount here, but it can be found in Jim Lynch's story in the June 1982 issue of The Keystone, or in the forthcoming November 2000 issue of TRAINS, in which a feature on the Pittsburgher will appear. By the way, thanks to all who responded to my on-line request for help in assembling information for that piece. Dan Cupper cupper@mciworld.com John 1:12 jpbtrans wrote: > Greetings one and all, > > A simple question,(I hope). Can someone give me some history on these > sleepers. Names, examples of trains run in, or did they run on all pass > trains? > > Thanks, > Jon Anderson jpbtrans@gateway.net Member, PRRT&HS > # 4716 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 00:55:34 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? Gize, Can anyone confirm that Tichy is actually going to produce a reproduction of an X-29B, D, F, or L. If so I would like to get in touch with them and head off potential errors and assumptions regarding the underframe and roof. Tichy would be much better off recreating an X-26C rebuild as there were more "close matches" for that car then the X-29 rebuilds and they would realize a greater market share. The X29B and the X29D share only the box in common, the underframes were different, the roofs were different the doors were different, just a bad choice to do... Let CB&T Shops do the X29B... Greg Martin Tuscan and PRR Buff ... ah, I think I'm in Heaven << with Tichy, C&BT shops (both are working on X-29 rebuilds, like the X29b) and Red Caboose. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Another X-29...WHAT? Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:53:21 -1000 Greg Martin wrote: "What do you all think about a good X-37 car. Not as many in numbers or how about a good H-31? If you want a car with a PENNSY appeal, try this. Lee and I just talked about tooling cost and the loss of a his in house engineer... YIKES Here's one I keep promoting, how about the R-50b... I think I have a manufacturer intrested in this car finally as well as the REAX riveted car... We'll see after the NMRA convention." X37: Might be tough to market - this roof variation of the 1937 AAR Boxcar is unique to PRR, so the only correct road name variations to market would be PRR only (MAYBE PC - I've never seen a picture of an X37 in green, but never really looked either). I'd welcome an easier way to to model the roof - maybe a replacement roof (it doesn't even need to be injection molded - a resin part would be fine) for the Red Caboose 1937 AAR Boxcar (5/5 Dreadnaught ends, W-section corner if I remember correctly) similar to the Viking roofs marketed by Des Plaines Hobbies. The separate roofs of the Red Caboose kits make this a lot easier than hacking off or modifying the roof of an Athearn car. H31: Too many on layouts already as represented by the Athearn ribbed side twin - why bother? Any effort put into hoppers would be much better spent on tooling for the GL/GLc/GLca Pressed Steel fishbelly twins or the GLa twin. R50b: Definitely needed by we SPF's, though our case would be strengthened if anyone can find proof that these were interchanged and bring it to light. Then Hank Mummert wrote: "If you want a box car...how about a kitbashable X-23 or X-26. As for "kitbashable" versions of X23 and X26 boxcars - X23 variations would be neat (the coke car, round roof conversion, and NX23 cabins immediately come to mind), but we'd run into the same problem of limited marketability. I'd welcome a better version - I'm working on an X23 using the Cannonball Kit and John Nehrich's MR article, and it's been an "on-again, off-again" project. I don't know of as many X26 single sheathed variations - besides, with the Westerfield kit on the market, I wouldn't write off using resin kits as kitbash fodder. In fact, the separate ends, sides, and roofs make life easier - you don't have to cut anything apart, and Al Westerfield is willing to offer parts from his kits separately (even those he wouldn't ordinarily market). If you can build a resin freight car kit, you can kitbash resin cars. So, finally to the point. I'd pass on another X29 - it took me a while to warm to the Kadee PS-1s, not because they aren't beautifully detailed cars, but because I had used the McKean kits to build many of the cars. Granted, the Kadee car is a great improvement over what was previously available, but there are plenty of other prototypes out there. If Bowser wants to invest in new tooling, I recommend pumping the money and resources into the GL/GLc/GLca PSC fishbelly hopper project. The cars are visually distinctive in a string of hoppers, numerous, and can be marketed in a number of schemes besides Pennsy. If it has to be a boxcar, then the postwar boxcar classes are a good place to look. Ben Hom P.S. Anyone going to San Jose? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] do we need another x-29 ? Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 07:16:52 EDT I agree with Gary, How about some ore jennies! Sam ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 07:33:42 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Dan, Jon & folks, Yes, I had thought the Pittsburger carried such a 4-4-2 car, especially as one of the Wayner books lists both renanings of cars for this train. Pennsy's Guide entries for summer of 1957 were something of an anomoly, with no detailed car listing for the Pittsburgher, mentioning only "sleeping, lounge and dining cars(not open leaving New York)". On the side, regarding these cars and the Pittsburger, I beleive there was a 4-4-2 running Atlantic City-Pittsburgh at this time. I can't recall though, it's exact handling west of 30th street. Seems it ran , at that time, in the Philadelphia Night Express to Harrisburg, then was added to the Pittsburgher, but this was altered at different times. Maybe in the c1957 era it ran in the combined Night Express/Statesman, as service was really in a state of flux at that time. The Admiral was listed as a Philley (30th Street)-Chicago train in July,57, and the Liberty Ltd carried a Chi-Philley section! Throw in the Aerotrain and it gets a bit much.Almost no Chicago service terminated in Philley in the 1950's. Well, talk to ya's later. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 07:58:11 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Barry, Did either the 1939 or 1948 Pennsy 4-4-2's have the small upper berth windows? Would these have been covered over at some point - I can't seem to remember ever seeing one in the 50's or a picture of one with the small windows. Frank Brua BPX29@aol.com wrote: > Jon, > This is the kind of question I enjoy helping with. All the 4-4-2's were > originally naned in the Imperial series; i wish I had more time at the moment > to supply nanes, but that'l have to wait until tommorow, I'm afraid. > These were a very high-class car, running in the better trains, and only a > few roads had them. Pennsy got some in 1939 and a larger batch in 1948. As of > 1957, for example, the following Pennsy trains carried them: > Golden Triangle, Broadway, Spirit of St. Louis, and, in Florida service: East > Coast Champion and Weekend Champion. > Talk to ya later, > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:37:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers In a message dated 7/27/00 7:03:22 AM Central Daylight Time, parkvarieties@provide.net writes: << Did either the 1939 or 1948 Pennsy 4-4-2's have the small upper berth windows? >> Six cars Lot 6540, Plan 4069B and six cars Lot 6571, Plan 4069D, Imperial series, had the small upper berth windows as delivered in June, 1937, and December, 1938, respectively. Source Pullman Standard Library Vol. 4. I believe the 1948 cars were built by ACF, not Pullman, and I am nearly certain there were no upper berth windows. Will see if I can find a diagram. << Would these have been covered over at some point - I can't seem to remember ever seeing one in the 50's or a picture of one with the small windows. >> Good question which I will leave to others, except to say that I do seem to recall a statement to that effect (that they were covered over) in one of the publications. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:29:44 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? The "fleet" concept is certainly valid. I have been solving the problem by going on all my business trips with a Red Caboose X29 kit and a few tool in my suitcase! However, for those unwilling to spend all their idle hotel time slaving over a hot razor blade, perhaps RC could consider going the same rout that Intermountain has, and offer a R-T-R version, assembled in China or wherever. I hesitate to encourage a manufacturer to spend the industry's rare resources and market duplicating the work of another mfr only a different level of difficulty. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Peter Reinhold wrote: > > Jerry and List Members, > > I may be opening a real can-o-worms, so Jerry, stop me if you think it > best. > > I've been talking to some of my customers about what they (and I) want or > need in the area of PRR freight cars. Over the past few months these chats > have pointed out that we seem to believe that a Bowser X-29 would sell very > well. > We came up with the following to support our statement. > > 1. the prototype had a huge number of these cars, we copy these > quanitities in our modeling, so an easily assembled kit is in order here. > > 2 the Walthers car, to be frank, just doesn't come close to the detail > standard that we expect from todays one piece plastic bodied car kits > (detailing these kits means more time and $). > > 3. The Red Caboose kit is very nice, but very time intensive for fleet > quantities (BTW none of this group wants to knock this kit). > > This group of modelers would like to assemble the fleet Quantity cars > quickly so as to have the time for building the lesser numbered classes > from the offering of Sunshine and Westerfield. > > What do the rest of think, are we on the money or missing the mark ? > > Pete Reinhold > Paint Plus Trains > PRRT&HS #5518 > NMRA L4415 > Prairie Du Sac, Wi. > paintplustrains@chorus.net > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:37:21 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? Walther's lists the C&BT X29b's and d's as expected in the fall. Like many other PRR fans, I too have been waiting to buy a fleet. BTW there is an X29b and and an X29d both sitting in the yard at Framingham MA!! They are rust color and barely showing CR underneath, but for the afficianado they are unmistakable. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/26/00 7:49:54 PM Central Daylight Time, > doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: > > << C&BT shops (both are working on X-29 rebuilds, like > the X-29b) >> > > Now that C&BT X29B is what I am waiting for. The sample in Merchandise > Service scheme (the original silver scheme, for which I believe this is the > only car in the X29 family that is correct) was beautiful. The owner was > having heart problems a year ago; hope he is OK (not for the car; he is a > nice guy). Anyone know? > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:51:26 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers If you interest is in modeling (HO), ECW makes a reasonable plastic model of the pre-war 4-4-2. I know of no source other than brass for the post-war cars. The pre and post war cars were visibly different despite the same nominal configuration. The placement of the rooms differed, the 38 cars had upper berth windows, and they were made by different car builders. (38=Pullman, 48=ACF) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== jpbtrans wrote: > > Greetings one and all, > > A simple question,(I hope). Can someone give me some history on these > sleepers. Names, examples of trains run in, or did they run on all pass > trains? > > Thanks, > Jon Anderson jpbtrans@gateway.net Member, PRRT&HS > # 4716 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:28:20 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Frank & folks, Hmmm, I'll try to see what I can dig up after work. I wonder if Some Classic Trains or the book on Pennsy Streamliners might have any 50's era photos? Far as models go, there's always the ECW kit, which is certainly reasonably priced. I think their ad says it's a Pullman-bulit car, of pre-war vintage. Brass Car Sides makes a 4-4-2 Imperial car, but which version I don't know offhand. Union Station Products also made one, but they didn't mention the builder, though many of their other Pennsy cars were ACF. There's also that new line that Jerry mentioned in his Merchandise service memo, but I don't recall off-hand if a 4-4-2 is currently in their line. Also, MR had that full color spread not too long ago on the Broadway Ltd, the late 40's edition I think, which may have had an in-service photo or two. Will talk to ya later, hopefully. Regards, Barry ps-Come to think of it, I also have that paper-bound book on the Broadway, which may have a shot.bp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:40:56 -0400 Subject: [PRR] C&BT X-29b's and X-29d's From: Jerry Britton On 7/27/00 8:37 AM, Andy Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > Walther's lists the C&BT X29b's and d's as expected in the fall. Like > many other PRR fans, I too have been waiting to buy a fleet. > Yes, Walthers lists the following HO cars for fall release (no mention of multiple road numbers): > 20200 PRR X-29b Box Car -- Undecorated  11.98 > 20201 PRR X-29b Box Car -- Standard Small Round Herald 1945  11.98 > 20202 PRR X-29b Box Car -- Standard Shadowed Keystone 1954  11.98 While the SK did begin in spring of 1954, did it actually make it on the X-29b in '54? > 20203 PRR X-29b Box Car -- White and Aluminum Band Scheme, Dark Red > Lettering and Field in Circle 1947  11.98 Was this, "Merchandise Service, Scheme 1", valid for this car? I can't help but recall the InterMountain PS-1 that some distributor incorrectly had custom painted in this scheme. It looked great, but it was wrong! > 20300 PRR X-29d Box Car -- Undecorated  11.98 > 20301 PRR X-29d Box Car -- Standard Small Round Herald 1945  11.98 > 20302 PRR X-29d Box Car -- Standard Shadowed Keystone 1954  11.98 Again, while the SK did begin in spring of 1954, did it actually make it on the X-29d in '54? > 20303 PRR X-29d Box Car -- "Don't Stand Me Still" yellow Slogan  11.98 I believe this is correct. Can anyone confirm? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:09:11 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] C&BT X-29b's and X-29d's The X29d was the ONLY car on which the "Don't stand me still" scheme was painted! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 7/27/00 8:37 AM, Andy Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > > > Walther's lists the C&BT X29b's and d's as expected in the fall. Like > > many other PRR fans, I too have been waiting to buy a fleet. > > > Yes, Walthers lists the following HO cars for fall release (no mention of > multiple road numbers): > > > 20200 PRR X-29b Box Car -- Undecorated 11.98 > > 20201 PRR X-29b Box Car -- Standard Small Round Herald 1945 11.98 > > 20202 PRR X-29b Box Car -- Standard Shadowed Keystone 1954 11.98 > > While the SK did begin in spring of 1954, did it actually make it on the > X-29b in '54? > > > 20203 PRR X-29b Box Car -- White and Aluminum Band Scheme, Dark Red > > Lettering and Field in Circle 1947 11.98 > > Was this, "Merchandise Service, Scheme 1", valid for this car? I can't help > but recall the InterMountain PS-1 that some distributor incorrectly had > custom painted in this scheme. It looked great, but it was wrong! > > > 20300 PRR X-29d Box Car -- Undecorated 11.98 > > 20301 PRR X-29d Box Car -- Standard Small Round Herald 1945 11.98 > > 20302 PRR X-29d Box Car -- Standard Shadowed Keystone 1954 11.98 > > Again, while the SK did begin in spring of 1954, did it actually make it on > the X-29d in '54? > > > 20303 PRR X-29d Box Car -- "Don't Stand Me Still" yellow Slogan 11.98 > > I believe this is correct. Can anyone confirm? > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:46:36 -0400 Hi all, I have diagrams of the 1948 ACF cars on my web site: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=ps422_fp.gif&sel=sle&s z=sm For the elevations, follow the "Next" link.. The diagrams show no upper birth windows but does have a listing of car names & numbers... Unfortunately I don't have the diagrams for the Pullman cars though... If anyone can suppply them, I'll add them... Rob http://prr.railfan.net > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of > Bobspf@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 8:38 AM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers > > > In a message dated 7/27/00 7:03:22 AM Central Daylight Time, > parkvarieties@provide.net writes: > > << Did either the 1939 or 1948 Pennsy 4-4-2's have the small upper berth > windows? >> > > Six cars Lot 6540, Plan 4069B and six cars Lot 6571, Plan 4069D, > Imperial > series, had the small upper berth windows as delivered in June, 1937, and > December, 1938, respectively. Source Pullman Standard Library Vol. 4. > > I believe the 1948 cars were built by ACF, not Pullman, and I am nearly > certain there were no upper berth windows. Will see if I can > find a diagram. > > << Would these have been covered over at some point - I can't > seem to remember ever seeing one in the 50's or a picture of one with > the small windows. >> > > Good question which I will leave to others, except to say that I > do seem to > recall a statement to that effect (that they were covered over) > in one of > the publications. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:55:34 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font Folks, I don't know exactly what they have, but you might try www.railfont.com. Best of luck, George PS. I do not in any way represent them nor am I a customer of them. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:59:09 EDT Subject: [PRR] RE: Do we need another X-29 Model in HO ??? Perhaps not, but we could sure use one in O (hi-rail)!!!! And while we're at it, how about an H21a? Also wanting his 2 front teeth for Christmas, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:04:40 -0400 Speaking of the ECW's 4-4-2, does anyone on the list know if there are interiors available for these cars. I know that ECW never made any interiors but I think there was a company in the mid-80's that produced detailed interior components for light-weight cars (i.e. roomette, compartment, bedroom, etc.) Is that company still in business? Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: Andy Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 7:51 AM To: jpbtrans Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers If you interest is in modeling (HO), ECW makes a reasonable plastic model of the pre-war 4-4-2. I know of no source other than brass for the post-war cars. The pre and post war cars were visibly different despite the same nominal configuration. The placement of the rooms differed, the 38 cars had upper berth windows, and they were made by different car builders. (38=Pullman, 48=ACF) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== jpbtrans wrote: > > Greetings one and all, > > A simple question,(I hope). Can someone give me some history on these > sleepers. Names, examples of trains run in, or did they run on all pass > trains? > > Thanks, > Jon Anderson jpbtrans@gateway.net Member, PRRT&HS > # 4716 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Brooks" Subject: Re: [PRR] C&BT X-29b's and X-29d's Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:15:00 -0400 Jerry, Since the X29d program was underway during 1954 any cars rebuilt after the adoption of the SK should've been outshopped with the new scheme. This begs a question. Anyone know of a photo showing an X29d with a shadow keystone and the short-lived "calendar" numbers? Brian Brooks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 9:40 AM Subject: [PRR] C&BT X-29b's and X-29d's Again, while the SK did begin in spring of 1954, did it actually make it on the X-29d in '54? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:19:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers From: Jerry Britton On 7/27/00 11:04 AM, Andrews, Ted (Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com) wrote: > Speaking of the ECW's 4-4-2, does anyone on the list know if there are > interiors available for these cars. I know that ECW never made any interiors > but I think there was a company in the mid-80's that produced detailed > interior components for light-weight cars (i.e. roomette, compartment, > bedroom, etc.) > > Is that company still in business? > IHC did, then they were gone...now you can get a few from Rivarossi http://www.modelexpoinc.com --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:31:59 -0400 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Wasn't the company Limited Editions? --Bob Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 7/27/00 11:04 AM, Andrews, Ted (Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com) wrote: > > > Speaking of the ECW's 4-4-2, does anyone on the list know if there are > > interiors available for these cars. I know that ECW never made any interiors > > but I think there was a company in the mid-80's that produced detailed > > interior components for light-weight cars (i.e. roomette, compartment, > > bedroom, etc.) > > > > Is that company still in business? > > > IHC did, then they were gone...now you can get a few from Rivarossi > > http://www.modelexpoinc.com- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:44:25 -0400 Bob: Yes, I think that is the company. They made detailed interiors consisting of numerous parts. Not like the monolithic one-piece interiors from Rivarossi. I think they were pricey too. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Bob Colquitt [mailto:wahsatch@vaix.net] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 10:32 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Wasn't the company Limited Editions? --Bob Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 7/27/00 11:04 AM, Andrews, Ted (Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com) wrote: > > > Speaking of the ECW's 4-4-2, does anyone on the list know if there are > > interiors available for these cars. I know that ECW never made any interiors > > but I think there was a company in the mid-80's that produced detailed > > interior components for light-weight cars (i.e. roomette, compartment, > > bedroom, etc.) > > > > Is that company still in business? > > > IHC did, then they were gone...now you can get a few from Rivarossi > > http://www.modelexpoinc.com- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:40:27 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers That was Limited Editions and they are long gone. The good die young - sigh :-( Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > > Speaking of the ECW's 4-4-2, does anyone on the list know if there are > interiors available for these cars. I know that ECW never made any interiors > but I think there was a company in the mid-80's that produced detailed > interior components for light-weight cars (i.e. roomette, compartment, > bedroom, etc.) > > Is that company still in business? > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:50:27 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers The IHC/AHM/Rivarossi interiors are one piece to fit their cars. They never made a 4-4-2. They make a 10-6. You would have to cut up the IHC interior and reuse only the bedrooms. You would still be missing the compartments and drawing rooms. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 7/27/00 11:04 AM, Andrews, Ted (Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com) wrote: > > > Speaking of the ECW's 4-4-2, does anyone on the list know if there are > > interiors available for these cars. I know that ECW never made any interiors > > but I think there was a company in the mid-80's that produced detailed > > interior components for light-weight cars (i.e. roomette, compartment, > > bedroom, etc.) > > > > Is that company still in business? > > > IHC did, then they were gone...now you can get a few from Rivarossi > > http://www.modelexpoinc.com > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:05:10 -0700 Ted, As others have mentioned, Limited Editions did these in a yellowish tooling epoxy. They got their start doing 1930-1940 vintage Pullman-built passenger cars (they did the complete 1936, 1939 and 1941 Daylight train with the only accurate Pullman corrugated side ever done in HO. FWIW, I have a complete1941 Daylight train somewhere around here...) After they lost their extruder (the cars were built on an extruded aluminum floor and roof section) they went to an entirely cast car...with disasterous results (I saw one of these at a local hobby shop...God, was it AWFUL!) They also marketed a line of details and (later on) some interior kits. After they went belly-up, NWSL acquired the remaining stock and I believe that they still have some left. You might contact NWSL for a listing of what is available. You should get one first, and check if it is decent, as often their cast epoxy stuff stunk. I know that they did some Superliner interiors, and I think they did some earlier stuff as well, but I am not too sure. Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:40:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font Hi List, Has anyone thought of taking a program like Fontographer and modifying a font which is fairly close to what you desire. I have seen a font editing program newer than Fontographer, just can't remember the name of it. Al In a message dated 07/26/2000 10:16:37 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << > Those of you with access to AOL, there was a RR Roman font several years ago > in the downloadable files. It is a truetype font and looks very close to the > PRR version to me. I don't know if it is still there but it was a shareware > program. > That font is a TrueType version of the shareware Railroad Roman previously referred to. It is close, but not exact, to the PRR font. Those of you who know typography will quickly see the differences in the serifs and in some of the weights. There are also differences in the horizontal scaling. There is a Clarendon font from Adobe, but it also differs from the PRR's Craw Clarendon. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:53:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font From: Jerry Britton On 7/27/00 3:40 PM, AlbertSR@aol.com (AlbertSR@aol.com) wrote: > Has anyone thought of taking a program like Fontographer and modifying a font > which is fairly close to what you desire. > > I have seen a font editing program newer than Fontographer, just can't > remember the name of it. > Folks: What is really needed is the PRR diagram of the font. It exists, somewhere, probably in the Lewistown Station. It will look just like the large sheet plans for locos, rolling stock, etc. Anyway, you take these, scan in one letter at a time (they are probably 3-4" tall), and then use Fontographer to trace the scan and turn it into a PostScript/TrueType font. Many years ago one of the PRR fonts was sold on eBay for big $$$. However, it wasn't the Craw Clarendon everyone is after. Off-hand, I forget which one it was. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:16:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR cars needed ?? In a message dated 07/26/2000 10:50:47 PM Central Daylight Time, KEMACPRR@aol.com writes: << As I model the modern PRR what I would like to see would be : X-58 , G-38/39 One benefit of the ore car would be the need for more than one on most model rr's. >> Hi again list In the stated case of the ore cars, most model rr's would use at least a string of them. I can't remember seeing any photos of these cars except in solid strings. Anybody recall differently? Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:28:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] C&BT X-29b's and X-29d's In a message dated 7/27/00 8:49:17 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Was this, "Merchandise Service, Scheme 1", valid for this car? >> As I indicated in my earlier post, I have only seen the Merchandise Service, Scheme I, on the X29b in 40 foot cars. If it was used on other X29s, I haven't seen it. Once again, doesn't mean it didn't happen; if someone has photos, I'd love to see them. BTW, I know I will be raked over the coals for this, but this paint scheme was applied to a set of three Accurail cars and it is IMO not a bad stand-in until the correct C&BT cars come along, especially since the company who did it (forgot who--it was mail order) got the freight car color fairly close. PS1 is another story. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:32:24 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers In a message dated 7/27/00 10:27:11 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << IHC did, then they were gone...now you can get a few from Rivarossi >> I thought those interiors were 10-6's. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:41:21 -0400 Subject: [PRR] New Society Book From: Jerry Britton I just received my copy of "Lewistown and the Pennsylvania Railroad: From Moccasins to Steel Wheels", this year's book from the PRRT&HS. Initial impression is it's a winner...all who ordered should be delighted. I know of one person in particular on this list that will love the coverage of the Denholm Coal Wharf! More to come... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:15:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers FWIW, the 1938-39 Pullman Imperial cars were named Crest, Lawn, Mantle, Park, Pass, Path, Plateau, Point, Range, Terrace, Trail, and View. The 1948 ACF Imperial cars were named Bench, Bower, Brink, Cliff, Fields, Hill, Lea, Loch, Meadows, Peak, Ridge, Road, Terrain, Trees, and Vail. My source is OK, though occasionally prone to error: Bob Reid's Pennsy Journal (e.g, he listed Imperial Terrain as both a 1938 car and a 1948 car --The Painting and lettering guide lists the 1938 car as Imperial Terrace). Imperial Brink and Cliff have already been mentioned as being renamed for the Pittsburgher. Imperial Range and Imperial Trace prewar cars were painted two tone gray in 1945, Golden State red and imitation stainless steel in 1948, back to two tone gray in 1951 and back to tuscan in 1953. They alternated with two SP-RI cars in similar colors and numbers, not names, on the through service to LA from June 2, 1946 to late 1951 (Painting Guide). Imperial Park, Pass, and Point were painted in two-tone gray for Broadway-Chief service and alternated with 5 Sante Fe fluted (or corrugated, whatever is PC these days) prewar stainless 4-4-2 cars with Indian names. They were replaced with Sante Fe postwar cars in 1953. The Painting Guide indicates they ran in other services, including Florida assignment. I have the ambitious projects on my long list of three ECW 4-4-2's, one in Fleet of Modernism, one in Golden State red and silver, and one fluted stainless Sante Fe car. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] C&BT X-29b's and X-29d's Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:29:25 -0700 Someone, I believe it may have been Rich Burg, told me (several years ago) that only a select group of cars got the Merch paint, among them the X29 (late only),X29b (early only), X40 and X41 (early only). I also believe that he said that the later X29 rebuilds were not put in that service, but used in more "specialty" oriented services (appliances, auto parts, with the new "big" doors and all). This may be incomplete info, but it was in response to a question prior to my laying decals on a brass X40 which I wanted to do in a thoroughly beat-up early (white and silver) Merch scheme, and whether or not this was correct. On another freight car question, I have also understood that PRR only had a small group of later boxes that did NOT have the diagonal panel roof. Obviously everything thru X41 did not have diagonals, except the rebuilds, but I have never heard confirmation about the X26 rebuilds. Does anyone know for sure? Those that had diagonals were all the X29 rebuilds, X38 rebilds, and everything after X41. Do you guys believe this to be accurate? And can we reopen the question as to how PRR boxes roofs were painted FROM THE FACTORY? I realize that repaints were coated top to trucks, but what about these new photos in the Cyc with ACF X41s with black roofs? What about all those old photos in CK with extremely dark roofs? Is it just peeling, or can I get some feedback (pleasant of course) on this issue? Don't yell at me, just a friendly discussion! Thanks, Elden -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 1:29 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] C&BT X-29b's and X-29d's In a message dated 7/27/00 8:49:17 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Was this, "Merchandise Service, Scheme 1", valid for this car? >> As I indicated in my earlier post, I have only seen the Merchandise Service, Scheme I, on the X29b in 40 foot cars. If it was used on other X29s, I haven't seen it. Once again, doesn't mean it didn't happen; if someone has photos, I'd love to see them. BTW, I know I will be raked over the coals for this, but this paint scheme was applied to a set of three Accurail cars and it is IMO not a bad stand-in until the correct C&BT cars come along, especially since the company who did it (forgot who--it was mail order) got the freight car color fairly close. PS1 is another story. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:11:37 -0400 Bill, Andy, Jerry, and the List: Thank you for your input on this. I never bought any of these interiors so I do not know how good they were. Still, I think that with some sheets of styrene and some pikestuff passener coach chairs, I would imagine that the interior of the 4-4-2 can be built a la Rivarossi. There are enough diagrams of these car's interiors that exist in print and on the web. I would like to thank all of those who read and participated in this thread! -----Original Message----- From: Bill Daniels [mailto:billd@gci-net.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 2:05 PM To: Andrews, Ted Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] 4-4-2 sleepers Ted, As others have mentioned, Limited Editions did these in a yellowish tooling epoxy. They got their start doing 1930-1940 vintage Pullman-built passenger cars (they did the complete 1936, 1939 and 1941 Daylight train with the only accurate Pullman corrugated side ever done in HO. FWIW, I have a complete1941 Daylight train somewhere around here...) After they lost their extruder (the cars were built on an extruded aluminum floor and roof section) they went to an entirely cast car...with disasterous results (I saw one of these at a local hobby shop...God, was it AWFUL!) They also marketed a line of details and (later on) some interior kits. After they went belly-up, NWSL acquired the remaining stock and I believe that they still have some left. You might contact NWSL for a listing of what is available. You should get one first, and check if it is decent, as often their cast epoxy stuff stunk. I know that they did some Superliner interiors, and I think they did some earlier stuff as well, but I am not too sure. Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:36:27 -0400 From: jpbtrans Subject: [PRR] Re: 4-4-2 Sleepers Bob, Dan, Barry, and all, Thank you all for the info. It was just what was needed. Jon Anderson jpbtrans@gateway.net PRR&HS #4716 RGortowski@aol.com wrote: > > Jon, > > Bob's post is very good. The only thing he does not specify is that the > pre-war 4-4-2's were actually two different plans; the 4069b and the 4069d. > These both had the six upper berth windows on the room sides. The 1948 ACF > cars were all plan 9009. For your time periods the 9009 cars would be more > appropriate, as the 4069 plans were all scrapped in the mid to late '60's. > You also do not have to worry about any of the transcontinental paint schemes > he talks about. They were all discontinued by your time period. BTW, the > Eastern Car Works kit is of the pre-war cars. In case you missed it. here is > Bob's post: > > FWIW, the 1938-39 Pullman Imperial cars were named Crest, Lawn, Mantle, Park, > Pass, Path, Plateau, Point, Range, Terrace, Trail, and View. > > The 1948 ACF Imperial cars were named Bench, Bower, Brink, Cliff, Fields, > Hill, Lea, Loch, Meadows, Peak, Ridge, Road, Terrain, Trees, and Vail. > > My source is OK, though occasionally prone to error: Bob Reid's Pennsy > Journal (e.g, he listed Imperial Terrain as both a 1938 car and a 1948 car > --The Painting and lettering guide lists the 1938 car as Imperial Terrace). > > Imperial Brink and Cliff have already been mentioned as being renamed for the > Pittsburgher. > > Imperial Range and Imperial Trace prewar cars were painted two tone gray in > 1945, Golden State red and imitation stainless steel in 1948, back to two > tone gray in 1951 and back to tuscan in 1953. They alternated with two SP-RI > cars in similar colors and numbers, not names, on the through service to LA > from June 2, 1946 to late 1951 (Painting Guide). > > Imperial Park, Pass, and Point were painted in two-tone gray for > Broadway-Chief service and alternated with 5 Sante Fe fluted (or corrugated, > whatever is PC these days) prewar stainless 4-4-2 cars with Indian names. > They were replaced with Sante Fe postwar cars in 1953. The Painting Guide > indicates they ran in other services, including Florida assignment. > > I have the ambitious projects on my long list of three ECW 4-4-2's, one in > Fleet of Modernism, one in Golden State red and silver, and one fluted > stainless Sante Fe car. > > Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:53:05 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] PRR font Hello All... Speaking of computerized fonts.... Where did companies like Champ and Microscale get the info for the decal fonts they have ? I don't know about Microscale, but i've heard that in Champ's early years they accually went out and measured and made drawings of different fonts from the real deal. I can appreciate all this talk about font work because of the job i have. If i had the same job i have now,but working for the PRR and say in....1950...i'd be the guy lettering the prototype. The closest i ever came to this was some lettering i did for the Baltimore Streetcar Museum during the 1970's. As a signpainter and artist for a local Norfolk,Va. shipyard when i first came to the paint shop at the yard they had no standard for fonts or letter size standards. My inspiration for standardizing what we use in the yard came from what the Pennsy did so many years ago. My aim was the same as Pennsy's,to save money through standization. (which management was and still is slow to realize) Although i still sometimes have to use customized fonts and letter sizes,overall most signs now have a standard letter size ,font and layout. One of the other things i did was to computerize some of the sign work, ala vinyl lettering. (Although i can still do it the old fashioned way too). I use a program called "Sign Wizard" that has hundreds of fonts and font variations. It also has the ablility to customize and modify any font in the program and other fonts that can be imported from a disc as long as the imported files have been vectorized. One of my other duties is matching paint... I don't even want to think about seeing a bunch of DGLE posts...LOL Have Fun Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark T. Evans" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:19:21 -0700 > On 7/27/00 3:40 PM, AlbertSR@aol.com wrote: > > > Has anyone thought of taking a program like Fontographer and modifying a font > > which is fairly close to what you desire. [snip] To which Jerry Britton replyed: > Folks: > > What is really needed is the PRR diagram of the font. It exists, somewhere, > probably in the Lewistown Station. It will look just like the large sheet > plans for locos, rolling stock, etc. > > Anyway, you take these, scan in one letter at a time (they are probably 3-4" > tall), and then use Fontographer to trace the scan and turn it into a > PostScript/TrueType font. Jerry has really hit the nail on the head here. Accurate PRR fonts are just not out there to be found because most RR fonts were hand-drawn standard plans that were not based on typesetter's fonts. A good example of such a standard plan drawing can be found on George Elwood's web site at the following link: http://gelwood.railfan.net/frt/152-11-257.gif This scanned drawing covers standard "Railroad Roman" 7-in. figures for the ERIE/C&O/NKP/PM. If accurate PRR lettering is desired by modelers, it is vital the the original PRR standard lettering drawings be located, preserved, and be made available for purchase/reproduction by modelers and decal manufacturers. This would seem to be a very laudable goal for the PRRT&HS to pursue. Why they apparently never have I can't fathom. As is shown by the example above, such standard lettering drawings can be scanned and posted on a web site for easy access to all. IMHO, the PRRT&HS web site would be a natural. As far as making a computer font, each letter/number/symbol in a standard drawing must be transformed into a vector image by (1) scanning/tracing or (2) redrawing using a CAD program. I have done both. Either way, the vector images are then taken into a font-making program like Fontographer or Fontmonger for conversion into a TrueType (or other format) font. And yes, I am aware of the Middle Division's excellent lettering guide. Unfortunately, scanning or other reproduction of the fine lettering in this document without permission would constitute copyright infringement, IMHO. Consequently, the original drawings must be located. Anyone know where they are? I have a feeling that they won't be that easy to find. Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA P.S. Has anyone ever seen a dimensioned drawing for the PRR Keystone logo? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:39:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] C&BT X-29b's and X-29d's In a message dated 07/27/2000 17:42:21 Eastern Daylight Time, egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil writes: > And can we reopen the question as to how PRR boxes roofs were painted > FROM THE FACTORY? I realize that repaints were coated top to trucks, but > what about these new photos in the Cyc with ACF X41s with black roofs? What > about all those old photos in CK with extremely dark roofs? Is it just > peeling, or can I get some feedback (pleasant of course) on this issue? > Don't yell at me, just a friendly discussion! Thanks, The PRR painting instructions for new cars called for 2 coatings of asphaltum on the roof. Re-painting called for repair of asphaltum if necessary and painting over the asphaltum with freight car color paint. In practice cars built by outside vendors (ACF, PS etc.) only had the asphaltum applied as required in the contracts. It appears from photographic evidence only that in house cars were completely painted. This would make sense as the car paint shop would not need to worry about new vs. repainting and change the production line. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Sunshine Models From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 07:40:59 -0500 Has anybody seen the new kits Sunshine Models is coming out with? Among the new kits they will be doing an X-41 in three (?) versions. Wish I would have brought my flyer along to work. I am working off my memory which is sometimes faulty. Randy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:02:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR] New Line of Passenger Car Sides (LONG) From: Jerry Britton "Merchandise Service" is pleased to be the sole dealer (at this time) of a new line of passenger car sides and I thought there'd be enough interest to warrant posting it to the "PRR_Talk" list in addition to the "Merchandise Announce" list. Quite a hole was left in the market following the closure of Union Station Products. (And, yes, we have returned mail to prove it!) Shortly thereafter I was approached by a list subscriber who owns his own laser equipment and was already doing a small number of sides. Yes, this is another "garage operation", but I have to tell you, everything about this company appears to be first rate! I received my initial order in less than a week. Product packaging is very clean. Unlike USP sides, which required quite a bit of "cleaning up" -- especially around the windows -- these sides are practically ready to go! In fact, I had an Eastern Car Works core kit already built-up, without sides. These sides slipped right on where USP sides were going to go. Nice! All of the edges on these sides are cleaner. The detail grooves are better. The grab iron holes are pre-drilled. And there is beading around the windows! To all those who have used USP sides in the past, I urge you to try at least one set of these sides and let us know what you think. Currently offered are: 1938 Pullman #4068 18RMT, PRR "CITY OF ___" 1938 Pullman #4069 4DBR-4CPT-2DR, PRR "IMPERIAL ___" 1938 Pullman #4071 13DBR, PRR "___ COUNTY" 1938 Pullman #4072 10RMT-5BR, PRR "CASCADE ___" 1948 ACF Full Length Diner, PRR "4600-4608 even" 1948 ACF Kitchen-Dorm, PRR "4601-4609 odd" 1948 Pullman #4130 12DUP-4BR, PRR "___ CREEK" 1948 Pullman #4140 10RMT-6BR, PRR "___ RAPIDS" 1948 Pullman #4141 3BR-BUFLNG-BARB-SEC, PRR "HARBOR ___" I will be loaning my "Pullman Standard Library Vol. 4" to them, which should result in: 1938 Pullman #4066 12DUP-5BR, PRR "___ BROOK" 1938 Pullman #4080 2MBR-1BR-OBS-BUF-LNG, PRR "___ VIEW" 1938 Pullman #4081 2DR-1CPT-1BR-OBS-BUF-LNG, PRR "___ NARROWS" 1938 Pullman #4077 2BR-BARLNG-BARB-SEC, PRR "HARBOR ___" 1938 Pullman #4078 3BR-1DR-BARLNG, PRR "COLONIAL ___" 1938 Pullman #7414 Diner (5 built by Pullman, 5 by ACF, 5 by Budd) 1948 Pullman #4129 10RMT-6BR, PRR "___ RAPIDS" 1948 Pullman #4131 6BR-BUFLNG, PRR "___ FALLS" 1948 Pullman #4134 2DR-1CPT-1BR-OBSBUFLNG, PRR "prr presidents" Would be replacement sides for Rivarossi "__ VIEW" boat tail observation (use as core kit) Please, give them a try... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Search on Vendor = Laser Horizons Here is the writeup from the manufacturer: Laser Horizons offers laser engraved and cut passenger car sides in accordance with a variety of designs and plans. Laser Horizons' car sides feature "BEADING" around the windows, which simulates the rubber gasketing found around the windows on the prototype cars. Car sides also feature "GROOVES" on the backs of the skirting. The "grooves" help the skirting bend inward, thereby curving under as found on the prototype. Once the modeler is satisfied with the shape of the curving, the skirting is fixed into place by dabbing super glue into the grooves, followed by a sprinkling of baking soda to set the glue quickly. Laser Horizons' car sides are provided complete with holes properly spaced for preformed vestibule grab irons, made by Details Associates, their part number 6601. Car sides are fabricated from 20mil ABS plastic, and the usual hobby paints adhere well. Car sides are sized to be used in conjunction with the plastic core kits that are manufactured by Eastern Car Works. The core kits provide floors, roofs, and ends. Also needed are clear sides to be the windows. The clear window sides may also be obtained from Eastern Car Works, part number 9117, and are offered separate from their core kits. We provide our sides slightly long in order to slightly trim by filing or sanding to fit against the core kit ends without leaving any gaps. This is especially important if the ends happen to be glued into place slightly out of square. It would be best to fit the non-door end of our sides first, doing the least amount of sanding, if needed. Then fit the door end of our sides to the other car ends, sanding until the car sides fit against the end and lay completely flat. Laser Horizons offers several skirting options for the middle of the sides, from full length skirting, to part length, mini length, and without skirting. To be used with our sides, we offer venetian blinds, for the inside of windows, where appropriate, like dining and lounge areas. Laser Horizons offers custom orders from your plans and are receptive to suggestions and critique. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] Bowser Cabin Car hand grabs Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:31:26 -0400 PRR Talk Listers: I am just about to start working on a Bowser N-5. I am planning to apply some details including the hand grabs. Does anyone know on the list in which hand grabs match the patterns on the Bowser cabins? Have any of you used Details Associates or has Cal Scale come out with hand grabs for these cars? Thank you in advance! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:36:21 DST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Font From: aurora7@juno.com > Mark T. Evans > Anaheim, CA > > P.S. Has anyone ever seen a dimensioned drawing for the PRR Keystone > logo? > I have the dimensions of the keystone number plate taken from the 460's original keystone. I've been making plywood copies with house numbers on them. Closest I'll get to a real Keystone (sigh). Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Sunshine Models Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 07:26:48 -1000 Not yet, but I'm in San Jose for the NMRA convention and will check them out at the Sunshine Models booth when the National Train Show kicks off next weekend. If they're on par with his other releases, we should have no problem. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:29:57 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] New Line of Passenger Car Sides (LONG) Jerry, Do these new folks have any plans (or ability) to do the PS fluted cars which USP did so well? I know the PRR had very few, but connecting RRs whose through trains ran on the PRR (ACL,SEAB,FEC,SOU,NH,MKT,ATSF,RI,etc) did. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: (in part) > > "Merchandise Service" is pleased to be the sole dealer (at this time) of a > new line of passenger car sides and I thought there'd be enough interest to > warrant posting it to the "PRR_Talk" list in addition to the "Merchandise > Announce" list. > > Quite a hole was left in the market following the closure of Union Station > Products. (And, yes, we have returned mail to prove it!) Shortly thereafter > I was approached by a list subscriber who owns his own laser equipment and > was already doing a small number of sides. Yes, this is another "garage > operation", but I have to tell you, everything about this company appears to > be first rate! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:52:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Line of Passenger Car Sides From: Jerry Britton On 7/28/00 1:29 PM, Andy Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > Do these new folks have any plans (or ability) to do the PS fluted cars > which USP did so well? I know the PRR had very few, but connecting RRs > whose through trains ran on the PRR > (ACL,SEAB,FEC,SOU,NH,MKT,ATSF,RI,etc) did. > SLOW DOWN!!!! They have an initial nine PRR cars. We've already discussed the next eight PRR cars, all Pullman-built. We'd like to do the Budd/ACF 21RMT, but we need detailed elevation drawings. Same with the ACF 1948 4-4-2. Can anyone help here? We're going to concentrate on PRR at the moment. The manufacturer does have some NYC sides, if anyone is interested. However, bombarding new manufacturers with requests doesn't work...remember Liberty Model Productions? Be patient, be supportive, and be grateful that a partial replacement for USP has come about so quickly! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:00:44 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] New Line of Passenger Car Sides Jerry, I'm in no hurry. I have enough projects on my many back burners. I'm currently working on 5 Bethlehem B60b's, 2 Bowser L1s, several GLAs and H25s (an interesting cross kitbash), regearing an old Max Gray G5, and I have a few Westerfield and Red Caboose (and USP) kits stacked up. I was only wondering if they have the ability to do these in the future or are we still in the market for another new mfr? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 7/28/00 1:29 PM, Andy Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > > > Do these new folks have any plans (or ability) to do the PS fluted cars > > which USP did so well? I know the PRR had very few, but connecting RRs > > whose through trains ran on the PRR > > (ACL,SEAB,FEC,SOU,NH,MKT,ATSF,RI,etc) did. > > > SLOW DOWN!!!! > > They have an initial nine PRR cars. > > We've already discussed the next eight PRR cars, all Pullman-built. > > We'd like to do the Budd/ACF 21RMT, but we need detailed elevation drawings. > Same with the ACF 1948 4-4-2. Can anyone help here? > > We're going to concentrate on PRR at the moment. The manufacturer does have > some NYC sides, if anyone is interested. However, bombarding new > manufacturers with requests doesn't work...remember Liberty Model > Productions? > > Be patient, be supportive, and be grateful that a partial replacement for > USP has come about so quickly! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:19:51 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Another X-29...WHAT? Hey Gize... << Greg Martin wrote: "What do you all think about a good X-37 car. Not as many in numbers(snip) YADA, YADA, YADA... Ben Hom Adds: Well, the Red Caboose car is actually a 4/5 Dreadnaught end and the Inter Mountain car is a 5/5 dreadanught end and then there is a the issue of the roof, but... the side panel layout in no way reprents the Pennsy car... Again a better choice would be an X-26 rebuid car, but the X-37 is still a better choice than another X-29! Ben Hom continues: Actually I was thinking of the two bay covered hopper and I got the class wrong, but a H-31 would work as you could use it for Berwind... and the Athearn is just a stand in. And as we all should know by now the GL(?)is in the bag if Lee can come up with a new engineer... Then Ben mentions: What proof do you need, the guys on the Santa Fe List have already eMialed me signing up for some. We know for a fact they went through on the Santa Fe, the proof is there. So, that is not an issue... Then Hank Mummert wrote: <<"If you want a box car...how about a kitbashable X-23 or X-26.>> The X-23 is too old for my era and a standard X-26 is already out there, the Tichy kit we need the rebuilt version, forget the X29 and it's subclasses it will might get made but C&BT Shops. Hank goe on to say: <> <> THe McKeen Car doesn't work for the PRr variation for the PS-1 as this was a block of only 100 cars built by Pullman with a special underframe and the McKeen roof is wrong and wha do you see first on a car...? Ben Hom P.S. Anyone going to San Jose? I will be in San Jose, you guys can catch up ith me at the RPM room, I'll have my PA/B set from the forth coming article. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:56:15 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Another X-29...WHAT? In a message dated 7/27/00 1:53:50 AM Central Daylight Time, b.hom@worldnet.att.net writes: << X37: Might be tough to market - this roof variation of the 1937 AAR Boxcar is unique to PRR, so the only correct road name variations to market would be PRR only (MAYBE PC - I've never seen a picture of an X37 in green, but never really looked either). I'd welcome an easier way to to model the roof - maybe a replacement roof (it doesn't even need to be injection molded - a resin part would be fine) for the Red Caboose 1937 AAR Boxcar (5/5 Dreadnaught ends, W-section corner if I remember correctly) similar to the Viking roofs marketed by Des Plaines Hobbies. The separate roofs of the Red Caboose kits make this a lot easier than hacking off or modifying the roof of an Athearn car. >> As Greg Martin pointed out, once you had the roof, you would still have to look for a correct body. Otherwise, maybe Sunshine Models could be talked into selling the roof as a detail part, since they make the X-37, X-37A, and two versions of the X--37B. Again they are a solution for one or two cars (I've got one) , but I concede an expensive and time-consuming way to build a fleet. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:59:02 EDT Subject: [PRR] R50b (was Another X-29...WHAT?) In a message dated 7/27/00 1:53:50 AM Central Daylight Time, b.hom@worldnet.att.net writes: << R50b: Definitely needed by we SPF's, though our case would be strengthened if anyone can find proof that these were interchanged and bring it to light. >> Again, as Greg Martin points out, the Sante Fe guys have already shown interest, but if any further proof is needed, does anyone have their Wayner consist books handy (mine are in storage)? There were a lot of fast mail trains listed which might have the R50b included. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 15:07:56 -0400 Subject: [PRR] N Scale Rockville Bridge From: Jerry Britton No real secret, but Bob Jans of Model Railroad Stoneworks will be announcing an N scale version of his beautiful Rockville Bridge this coming week at San Jose. The four-track bridge will feature 8 arches and be about four feet long. It is scheduled to ship in the fall. N scalers rejoice! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:09:26 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: [PRR] New PRR freight cars (Was X29 et al) In all the ongoing talk fired off by the suggestion of a new X29, no one mentioned the PRR stock cars. I know, Bowser is doing the K9 and K11 rebuilds of the X31s and 32s. But they first appeared in the late 50's and for those of us who still long to have some steam on our RR, they are too late. We need K7s and K8s. The K7s were effectively cow-carrying X23s, while the K8s were X29s as stock cars. During the early 50s PRR had a large live stock business. There was an RMC article on it some years ago. The stock trains used K7s, K8s, and a lot of foreign stuff (CNW, ATSF, NP). These latter cars are available, but not the PRR cars - sigh :-( -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:55:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR freight cars (Was X29 et al) In a message dated 7/28/00 3:27:54 PM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << In all the ongoing talk fired off by the suggestion of a new X29, no one mentioned the PRR stock cars >> Andy, it wasn't because I didn't think of it. That is one car I would buy a pack of (double sigh). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Pennsyt14444@cs.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:15:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR pickax??????? Hey Crew, I recently stumbled over a pickax at an Amish mart in Belleville, Pa. The pick is marked P. R. R. C. Is this a PRR pick, if not what is it? thanks, Seth Gray PS visit mt site @ www.homestead.com/ pennsyfan / pennsyfan .html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:37:10 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Atlas DCC, website update Hello list, Atlas has updated their website (www.atlasrr.com). The product catalog is back online. Atlas has brought out their own line of DCC products. It looks like theirs is a beginner's system, appearing similar to MRC's Command 2000. All of their GP-38s will have a decoder factory installed, and they have a way to switch the decoder from DCC mode to analog, which they say eliminates speed differential. All of this is a bit over my head (my degrees are in history and Russian; on a good day I can count to 20), but it looks interesting. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Conemaugh Station List, Looking for photos or plans of the East Conemaugh Station. -----Mark--------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Another X-29 (in what scale?) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:54:17 -0400 Are ALL Pennsy modelers in HO scale? You HO'ers should know how long we waited for anything PRR in N scale other than Minitrix 0-6-0, 4-6-2. and 2-10-0 with misfit boiler steam locomotives! Until Fine N Scale did PRR X-31's a few years ago, followed by X-31b's and X-32's and finally X-29's, the only PRR rolling stock available, and only for a short time was the Ouality Craft N5c caboose, which was a real BEAR to build (and I've been scratchbuilding cars for 50 years). We in N are grateful that Bowser is making N5's as their first new venture in N scale after buying Delaware Valley. If only they would put out those Penn Line locos in N scale! Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:19:50 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Another X-29 (in what scale?) In a message dated 7/28/00 8:57:14 PM Central Daylight Time, mahlkov@gtcom.net writes: << We in N are grateful that Bowser is making N5's as their first new venture in N scale after buying Delaware Valley. If only they would put out those Penn Line locos in N scale! >> Not a Pennsy car, Gregg, but even as an HOer I was intrigued by the Microtrains 1957 REA car. I will be interested in hearing how it stacks up, Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Another X-29...WHAT? Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:28:34 -1000 OK, you guys caught me on the differences between class X37 and the "standard" 1937 AAR Boxcar, but what do you notice first on a boxcar? :-) I'm in agreement with Bob - the Sunshine kits are great for one or two cars, and in the case of this class of boxcar, you'd only need one or two cars. Besides, we do need to support manufacturers like Martin Lofton, Al Westerfield, et. al. As for my previous posting on PS-1 kits, it wasn't my intention to discuss what kits are appropriate for Pennsy Class X48 (I used the McKean cars to build a variety of cars to Green Dot standards for the NEB&W as an undergrad at RPI, and it was a bit of work to make them), but to make an analogy to what happened when a spate of new PS-1 kits appeared on the market three-four years ago, and what is happening with EMD F units today. One would think the customer base isn't big enough to support this duplication of effort, much less the fact that manufacturers seem to fall into the same clichés when new products come out. I, for one, applaud manufacturers like Dayna who aren't afraid to produce items that have been ignored in the past. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] New PRR freight cars (Was X29 et al) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:28:48 -1000 Andy Miller wrote: "In all the ongoing talk fired off by the suggestion of a new X29, no one mentioned the PRR stock cars. I know, Bowser is doing the K9 and K11 rebuilds of the X31s and 32s. But they first appeared in the late 50's and for those of us who still long to have some steam on our RR, they are too late. We need K7s and K8s. The K7s were effectively cow-carrying X23s, while the K8s were X29s as stock cars. During the early 50s PRR had a large live stock business. There was an RMC article on it some years ago. The stock trains used K7s, K8s, and a lot of foreign stuff (CNW, ATSF, NP). These latter cars are available, but not the PRR cars - sigh :-(" Sign me up for some K7s and K8s as well! From a tooling standpoint, it's not too much of a stretch for Bowser to go from X31/X32 tooling to the K11/K9 (witness the introduction of the H22a's after the H21s), but someone will have to pony up for new tooling for these cars. As for the foreign road cars, I brought up the subject of foreign road cars on FW-8 a few months ago, and haven't gotten much info aside from some broad-brush generalities. Even the foreign road stockcars aren't as readily available as you might think - the Central Valley cars model only one class (fortunately a numerous one) of NP stockcars, the Santa Fe cars are available only as resin cars, and outside of the Mather cars, the CNW cars aren't available either (neither their predecessors or the distinctive green and yellow cars). Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] R50b (was Another X-29...WHAT?) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:28:45 -1000 Bob Zoeller wrote: "Again, as Greg Martin points out, the Santa Fe guys have already shown interest, but if any further proof is needed, does anyone have their Wayner consist books handy (mine are in storage)? There were a lot of fast mail trains listed which might have the R50b included." I missed the post concerning the Santa Fe modelers' interest in producing a good R50b (we attempted research at RPI a while back to try to figure out express reefer movement, but being deep in NYC country, you can guess how much we found out about the Pennsy cars), but finding the evidence and making it known can only help our argument to get these cars made. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:41:45 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] another X-29 ? Hello... Before i mentioned the H-31.... I ment to say the H-30 and H-30a and the H-32. You could have Pennsy,Penn Central and Conrail cars. N&W modelers could use them too. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser Cabin Car hand grabs Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:23:12 -0500 Ted--I strongly recommend you take a look at Ed Martin's excellent article in the December 1995 Mainline Modeler if you can get access to a copy. Even if you choose not to do everything he does in the article, he covers all the questions. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MarkCFry@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:51:19 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser Cabin Car hand grabs In a message dated 7/28/00 9:41:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com writes: << I am just about to start working on a Bowser N-5. I am planning to apply some details including the hand grabs. Does anyone know on the list in which hand grabs match the patterns on the Bowser cabins? Have any of you used Details Associates or has Cal Scale come out with hand grabs for these cars? >> Ted; I am working on the same project! I'm using the Details Associates hand rails. They are not perfect, but close enough. The arc on the side rails needs to be flatened slightly, and the end grabs need be shortened slightly as well. All in all, not a bad match though. Good luck. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] New X-29 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 06:15:51 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFF924.72078EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List Members, To my way of thinking, it would have been a natural , to release a "new" = Pennsy hopper (class what ever) in conjunction with the much expected = Pennsy hopper book by John Teichmoeller. Thus they would "piggy-back" on = each other's release and success. Any manufacturers listening? Guess = what I want. Walt P. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFF924.72078EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List Members,
To my way of thinking, it would have been a natural = , to=20 release a "new" Pennsy hopper (class what ever) in conjunction with the = much=20 expected Pennsy hopper book by John Teichmoeller. Thus they would = "piggy-back"=20 on each other's release and success. Any manufacturers listening? Guess = what I=20 want.
 
Walt P.
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFF924.72078EA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DATSMan@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 09:03:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] New X-29 While we're talking hoppers - the 100 ton X43 "yellow ball" was one of the PRR's best and the Bowser version lettering is not quite right - and apparently there aren't any decal sets made for this car either! Bob O'Leary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 08:11:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b on the Santa Fe Fast Mail Express From: "Doug and Marianne" > << R50b: Definitely needed by we SPF's, though our case would be strengthened > if anyone can find proof that these were interchanged and bring it to light. The second quarter 1997 issue of The Warbonnet (published by the Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society) has an extensive article on Santa Fe's Fast Mail Express (Chicago-Los Angeles). It has several consist lists that show R50b's were regularly carried by the Fast Mail in the 1950's and 1960's. Part of the strong interest in this train is that it regularly carried cars from several eastern roads to and from Los Angeles. PRR X-29's, X-42's, B60b's, and B70's were also commonly seen in this train. The Fast Mail also carried head end cars from NYC, New Haven, B&O, Erie, Lackwanna, C&O, ACL, and SAL. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:11:22 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Block Station signs Hello List Members. Are there any of you out there that can help me indentify the following Block Limit signs. I found these stencils in a RPO I had bought some years ago in Cresson. The RPO by the way was a BM70N 6539 ex 5239 the "ROBERT E. HANNEGAN" the only named RPO on the PENNSY. Anyhow, most of the stencils are for the Cresson,Susquehanna and Black Lick branchs. Not all are accounted for. I found MC on the Mon. Br. and later on the Ellsworth Sec, KI on the New Cumberland Sec. Would like to know where the rest belong if possible. AB, CK, IB, JH, JQ, KW, PO, RF, TX. Have looked through the Pgh Reg, Pgh Div & Central Reg TT from 10-56 to 1970 but didn't see any matches.Even checked the 1941 ETT I have. Let the wheels start turning. Thanks to all who answer in advance. Pat McKinney Altoona, Pa. PRRT&HS 1524 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 18:44:46 EDT Subject: [PRR] McKinley Intl.,Canton Ohio Hello List. Does anyone have a picture of the PRR "McKINLEY" Intl sign at Canton on a web site where I can view it? Need to see how they did the small c on the sign. Thanks. Pat McKinney PRRT&HS 1524 Altoona, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:06:18 EDT Subject: [PRR] Thomas & the Magic Railroad List Members Saw Thomas And The Magic Railroad today, And as much as the over all movie was a bit slow. . . There are some wonderful scenes filmed in and around the Harrisburg Station. Theres a wide shot of the railroad east side of the trainshed & station with ex N&W 475 and a train made up of Strasburg coachs. . . and shots filmed inside th shed including a great low angle shot (engineers side) of the train pulling out with 475 bathing the catanary with smoke an steam ! ! ! Well worth the price of admission ! ! ! Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] Another X-29 (in what scale?) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:11:33 +1000 Peoples, I put my vote in for a Pennsy Coil Steel Car G41 or similar. Used by Pennsy, PC (yuck) & CR. With All the interest in Steel Mills thats been around the last few years I am suprised it has not been thought of earlier. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] do we need another x-29 ? Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:18:42 +1000 Sam, Gotta agree with ore jennies are on my list too! Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. > I agree with Gary, > > > How about some ore jennies! > > Sam \ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 00:37:33 -0700 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] New Line of Passenger Car Sides (LONG) Hi Jerry, Can you ask them if N-Scale sides are in their plans? Thanks, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:34:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Triumph III From: Jerry Britton Yesterday I received the "Pre-Publication Offer" from Barnard, Roberts & Co. for "Triumph III". They claim it will ship this fall, which it may, as it was already in production when "Triumph II" was running so late. The price will be $65, as were the two previous volumes. The pre-production offer is $49 and the book will be signed by the author, David Messer. I have scanned the offer and made a PDF file of it, which you may download from the "Library" section of "Keystone Crossings". --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:18:29 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Forthcoming Bowser 16th edition catalog Hello list, I was just surfing Bowser's web site, and their current catalog is sold out (mine is in tatters from so much use; I should really own stock in the company.....). They did say they were working on a 16th edition catalog; if I remember correctly the current catalog came out in late 1997 or early 1998, right before they released the revised T-1. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:46:16 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] wanted Hi, I usually don't take up bandwidth with "wants", but in this case it's necessary and I apologize in advance. I'm looking for: 1. Pennsy Power III (1st ed) 2. A Rail Classics R50b in any one of the three styles with style 1 highest priority. Please respond to me off-list if you have either or both of these items and would be willing to sell them. Thanks! Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:41:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] C&BT X-29b's and X-29d's Okay Gize, Every time this debate comes up I find that the spec.'s are quoted from the Compendium which is a reference to cars painted after 1954. Can someone verify the same spec.'s were used for cars painted prior to 1954? This debate always seems to go quiet at this point. The continual quoting of the Compendium is nice but doesn't resolve the cars produced after the war, and don't take the Compendium as gospel because not all subcontractors supplied cars without the roof being painted over the asphaltum either perhaps AC&F on the X43A but not all cars. However, it was more common later in the 50's to just allow the overspray to hit the roof. Can anyone quote from the spec.'s of cars built prior to 1954 and give us all a point of reference to back this up? I really would like to read it myself... I don't mean to pick on Rich Orr but last October at Naperville Richard Burg made a fool of the spec.'s... Greg Martin << The PRR painting instructions for new cars called for 2 coatings of asphaltum on the roof. Re-painting called for repair of asphaltum if necessary and painting over the asphaltum with freight car color paint. In practice cars built by outside vendors (ACF, PS, etc.) only had the asphaltum applied as required in the contracts. It appears from photographic evidence only that in house cars were completely painted. This would make sense as the car paint shop would not need to worry about new vs. repainting and change the production line.>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 15:28:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] (no subject) Testing Testing ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:28:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Thomas & the Magic Railroad From: Jerry Britton On 7/29/00 10:06 PM, JONS6755@aol.com at (JONS6755@aol.com) wrote: > Saw Thomas And The Magic Railroad today, And as much as the over all > movie was a bit slow. . . There are some wonderful scenes filmed in and > around the Harrisburg Station. Theres a wide shot of the railroad east side > of the trainshed & station with ex N&W 475 and a train made up of Strasburg > coachs. . . and shots filmed inside th shed including a great > low angle shot (engineers side) of the train pulling out with 475 bathing the > catanary with smoke an steam ! ! ! About three minutes total. Harrisburg represented the home station for a little girl that travels to the town of Shining Time...and on to the Island of Sodor. So, it actually played a very small part. Still, good to see it on the big screen! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:01:36 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Thomas & the Magic Railroad Jerry & LIst It was also good to see live steam under the trainshed. . . even if note a PRR prototype. . . The 475 looks kinda close. There is also quite a bit of footage shot on the Strasburg with the 475 & train. . . and she looks real good on the big screen. Jon S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:55:48 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] another X-29 ? Funero & Camerlengo has been claiming to be retooling their H30 for several years now. Perhaps if they are lurking they will realize that there is a market! -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== bubbles@visi.net wrote: > > Hello... > > Before i mentioned the H-31.... > > I ment to say the H-30 and H-30a and the H-32. > You could have Pennsy,Penn Central and Conrail cars. > N&W modelers could use them too. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 09:19:22 -0400 Subject: [PRR] New Car Desires From: Jerry Britton A lot of great talk on the list about desired models. For those who are new over the past year, every November there is an official "PRR-Talk Modelers Needs Assessment Survey" where every modeler on the list has the opportunity to state their three greatest needs in each of several categories. The results are not only reported back to the list, but forwarded to many manufacturers. I have to think it is having at least some effect, as the models on our past three surveys have started showing up. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] New X-29 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 09:27:01 -0400 Bob: I think that Herald King made some pretty good sets of this car. Despite that HK is no more, there should be some decal sets still lying around hobby shops around the country. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: DATSMan@aol.com [mailto:DATSMan@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 8:04 AM To: walpru@stargate.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] New X-29 While we're talking hoppers - the 100 ton X43 "yellow ball" was one of the PRR's best and the Bowser version lettering is not quite right - and apparently there aren't any decal sets made for this car either! Bob O'Leary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] R50b (was Another X-29...WHAT?) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:40:34 -0400 PRR Talklisters: In regards to these Wayner Consist books, are they still available or out of print? Did they cover the PRR or other RR's as well. What were the time periods that were covered? Thanks in adavance! Ted -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 1:59 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] R50b (was Another X-29...WHAT?) In a message dated 7/27/00 1:53:50 AM Central Daylight Time, b.hom@worldnet.att.net writes: << R50b: Definitely needed by we SPF's, though our case would be strengthened if anyone can find proof that these were interchanged and bring it to light. >> Again, as Greg Martin points out, the Sante Fe guys have already shown interest, but if any further proof is needed, does anyone have their Wayner consist books handy (mine are in storage)? There were a lot of fast mail trains listed which might have the R50b included. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:56:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Wayner Books From: Jerry Britton On 7/31/00 10:40 AM, Andrews, Ted (Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com) wrote: > In regards to these Wayner Consist books, are they still available or out of > print? > > Did they cover the PRR or other RR's as well. What were the time periods > that were covered? > I think there are many more than I am aware of, but I have copies of the PRR portions of the following: "Passenger Train Consists of the 1940s" "Car Names, Numbers, and Consists" Both covered many railroads. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] another X-29 ? Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:45:47 -0700 Yes, a nicer H30 would be greatly appreciated, as would an H32. There have been rumors for several years that a plastic H30 kit was in the making. Does anyone know anything about this? -----Original Message----- From: Andy Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 5:56 AM To: bubbles@visi.net Cc: PRR-TALK@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] another X-29 ? Funero & Camerlengo has been claiming to be retooling their H30 for several years now. Perhaps if they are lurking they will realize that there is a market! -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== bubbles@visi.net wrote: > > Hello... > > Before i mentioned the H-31.... > > I ment to say the H-30 and H-30a and the H-32. > You could have Pennsy,Penn Central and Conrail cars. > N&W modelers could use them too. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:47:12 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Lighting of Passenger Cars From: Jerry Britton I am looking to light a whole fleet of passenger cars (DCC = constant lighting) and would like your input... Interiors will have partitions, furniture, people (something you seldom see in a passenger car model!). Bedrooms that should be dark will have black ceilings installed. That still allows the passageway to be lit. Even though the temp of such a small light is low, are there materials I should stay away from for the interior partitions and ceilings? What works best? What doesn't work? What about the choice of light fixtures? Who likes what? What doesn't work well? Thanks in advance! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:00:31 -0400 From: "John Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Wayner Books There is a PRR passenger car diagram book, I think. I believe there are several Wayner PRR books, but I'm at the office now. John Ryan > I think there are many more than I am aware of, but I have copies of the PRR > portions of the following: > > "Passenger Train Consists of the 1940s" > "Car Names, Numbers, and Consists" > > Both covered many railroads. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:10:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Wayner Books From: Jerry Britton On 7/31/00 3:00 PM, John Ryan, Jr. (RamblingReck@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > There is a PRR passenger car diagram book, I think. I believe there are > several Wayner PRR books, but I'm at the office now. > > John Ryan > > >> I think there are many more than I am aware of, but I have copies of the PRR >> portions of the following: >> >> "Passenger Train Consists of the 1940s" >> "Car Names, Numbers, and Consists" >> >> Both covered many railroads. Yes, there are, several, in fact. But the query was about consist books, I believe. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:40:59 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Wayner Books/ Consist Books Folks, I don't know that Wayner has produced a whole lot of pure consist books. I know about the Santa Fe one, as well as "Passenger Trains, Nanes and Consists" and "Zephyr to Amtrak", but am not aware of any others, though some may exist. I only mention this because I find this aspect of the hobby, passenger consists, to be extremely interesting, and also extremely frustrating. while some Pennsy consist books are available (from c. Blardone, I think), and B&O fans are very fortunate, for the most part this info is very hard to obtain. I've temporarily joined various email lists on egroups to inquire along these lines, but most inquiries draw a deafening response. One exception was Don Valentine as regards B&M trains, but most folks don't seem overly familar, or interested, in this subject. My question now would be, who can enlighten us as to what consists books are available for which railroads, especially those running connecting service with Pennsy? I'd sure be grateful to find out some news. Thanks guys, and regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:02:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Wayner Books/ Consist Books From: Jerry Britton On 7/31/00 3:40 PM, BPX29@aol.com (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > I don't know that Wayner has produced a whole lot of pure consist books. I > know about the Santa Fe one, as well as "Passenger Trains, Nanes and Consists" > and "Zephyr to Amtrak", but am not aware of any others, though some may exist. > I only mention this because I find this aspect of the hobby, passenger > consists, to be extremely interesting, and also extremely frustrating. while > some Pennsy consist books are available (from c. Blardone, I think), and B&O > fans are very fortunate, for the most part this info is very hard to obtain. > I've temporarily joined various email lists on egroups to inquire along these > lines, but most inquiries draw a deafening response. One exception was Don > Valentine as regards B&M trains, but most folks don't seem overly familar, or > interested, in this subject. > My question now would be, who can enlighten us as to what consists books are > available for which railroads, especially those running connecting service > with Pennsy? I'd sure be grateful to find out some news. Thanks guys, and > regards, Some differentiation of terms needs to be discussed. Specifically, consist reports vs. makeup of trains. A consist report, which is what appears in the Wayner books, are a snapshot of a specific train on a specific date at a particular location. This may or may not include the exact car name, but often does. A "Makeup of Trains", the documents that Chuck Blardone sells, are PRR divisional books used by the crews (e.g. Sunnyside Yard), telling them what "types" of cars to put into each train. The name isn't necessarily binding, though a particular pool of cars might be assigned regularly to a particular named train. For instance, if train "X" typically carried to 10-6's, then four would be assigned...two for each direction, rotating. In cases of interchange traffic, I have seen as many as six cars assigned to the pool due to the time it takes for those that are out to actually come back! The "Makeup of Trains" also dictates daily changes to a train's makeup that are regular on a weekly schedule. For instance, there might be three extra mail cars on a Monday, an extra coach on a Friday, etc. I have the "Makeup of Trains" for the New York Division, dated April 1954. That was where I gleaned much of the info from that appears on my "24 Hours at Harrisburg" essay. I've been collecting Consist Reports for over a year and have been entering them into my online database all along. Just haven't done the GUI for all of you to access it yet! When I do, you'll be able to search for consist reports based on train name, train number, year, date, etc. (Steam Locomotive Roster had taken priority.) --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Freight car "Consists" Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:38:42 -0700 Hi folks! On this same subject, are there any resources in regards to consist "sheets" (computer generated or otherwise) for FREIGHT trains available out there? I recall a very interesting combination in a KEYSTONE article by Bob Malinoski that paired a computer-generated consist sheet with a photo that he took of the same freight train on the Middle Division in 1965. It was really interesting that you could see what cars went with what cargo, and were going where. I never understood all the codes (i.e., OK, "STLPIP = Steel Pipe, but "ZINSKI" = zinc coated sheet? maybe?), but it was the only time I've ever seen this information presented. Have any of you done any research on this subject? I understand that the X54's were regularly seen in steel plate service. Does anyone know how this worked and to whom they were commonly assigned? How about other freight cars? Does anyone know what other cars were commonly assigned to specific industries? The ORERs have some tidbits, but not specific assignments. Let me know what you think! Elden -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:02 PM To: BPX29@aol.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Wayner Books/ Consist Books On 7/31/00 3:40 PM, BPX29@aol.com (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > I don't know that Wayner has produced a whole lot of pure consist books. I > know about the Santa Fe one, as well as "Passenger Trains, Nanes and Consists" > and "Zephyr to Amtrak", but am not aware of any others, though some may exist. > I only mention this because I find this aspect of the hobby, passenger > consists, to be extremely interesting, and also extremely frustrating. while > some Pennsy consist books are available (from c. Blardone, I think), and B&O > fans are very fortunate, for the most part this info is very hard to obtain. > I've temporarily joined various email lists on egroups to inquire along these > lines, but most inquiries draw a deafening response. One exception was Don > Valentine as regards B&M trains, but most folks don't seem overly familar, or > interested, in this subject. > My question now would be, who can enlighten us as to what consists books are > available for which railroads, especially those running connecting service > with Pennsy? I'd sure be grateful to find out some news. Thanks guys, and > regards, Some differentiation of terms needs to be discussed. Specifically, consist reports vs. makeup of trains. A consist report, which is what appears in the Wayner books, are a snapshot of a specific train on a specific date at a particular location. This may or may not include the exact car name, but often does. A "Makeup of Trains", the documents that Chuck Blardone sells, are PRR divisional books used by the crews (e.g. Sunnyside Yard), telling them what "types" of cars to put into each train. The name isn't necessarily binding, though a particular pool of cars might be assigned regularly to a particular named train. For instance, if train "X" typically carried to 10-6's, then four would be assigned...two for each direction, rotating. In cases of interchange traffic, I have seen as many as six cars assigned to the pool due to the time it takes for those that are out to actually come back! The "Makeup of Trains" also dictates daily changes to a train's makeup that are regular on a weekly schedule. For instance, there might be three extra mail cars on a Monday, an extra coach on a Friday, etc. I have the "Makeup of Trains" for the New York Division, dated April 1954. That was where I gleaned much of the info from that appears on my "24 Hours at Harrisburg" essay. I've been collecting Consist Reports for over a year and have been entering them into my online database all along. Just haven't done the GUI for all of you to access it yet! When I do, you'll be able to search for consist reports based on train name, train number, year, date, etc. (Steam Locomotive Roster had taken priority.) --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:40:56 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Kato N scale corrugated PRR passenger cars Hello list, Kato's website, www.katousa.com, has artwork for their corrugated passenger cars. They have two sets decorated for the PRR; at least one appears to be done in Tuscan red (I couldn't get the other image to download for some reason...). I don't know much about N scale or corrugated passenger cars (I hope the cars are appropriate, or at least close; can anyone comment?), but if this helps someone else, it's all good! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:22:15 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight car "Consists" Elwood, You raise an interesting point about freight train consists. You may want to take a look at the M&StL list on egroups (mstl@egroups.com). One of the guys on there made a list of freight cars set out on the Peoria line from Minneapolis, for hot boxes and other malfuctions. This is from the 1950's and lists set-out cars by railroad, and if I recall correctly, their cargos. Considering that the Peoria Branch was pretty secondary to the Pennsy, there is a large number of PRR cars listed, and I'd have to assume they were heading back to home rails. There's other data there as well, and while not Pennsy-based, there's info to be gained there. As you said, very little info is available in this field, so anything helps. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight car "Consists" Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:27:23 -0400 The PRR and other railroads used a three-three-three aplha computer abbreviation for shipper and consignees and a three-three for commodity back in the sixties and early seventies, so you had STEel PIPe and ZINc SKImmings or dross for the two commodities you mention. Train consists would be retained on a monthly basis locally and possibly for a year or two by operations and five years for freight claim purposes, so any PRR train consists extant were retained outside of channels. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 4:38 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Freight car "Consists" > Hi folks! On this same subject, are there any resources in regards to > consist "sheets" (computer generated or otherwise) for FREIGHT trains > available out there? I recall a very interesting combination in a KEYSTONE > article by Bob Malinoski that paired a computer-generated consist sheet with > a photo that he took of the same freight train on the Middle Division in > 1965. It was really interesting that you could see what cars went with what > cargo, and were going where. I never understood all the codes (i.e., OK, > "STLPIP = Steel Pipe, but "ZINSKI" = zinc coated sheet? maybe?), but it was > the only time I've ever seen this information presented. Have any of you > done any research on this subject? I understand that the X54's were > regularly seen in steel plate service. Does anyone know how this worked and > to whom they were commonly assigned? How about other freight cars? Does > anyone know what other cars were commonly assigned to specific industries? > The ORERs have some tidbits, but not specific assignments. Let me know what > you think! > Elden > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:02 PM > To: BPX29@aol.com; prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Wayner Books/ Consist Books > > > On 7/31/00 3:40 PM, BPX29@aol.com (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > > > I don't know that Wayner has produced a whole lot of pure consist books. I > > know about the Santa Fe one, as well as "Passenger Trains, Nanes and > Consists" > > and "Zephyr to Amtrak", but am not aware of any others, though some may > exist. > > I only mention this because I find this aspect of the hobby, passenger > > consists, to be extremely interesting, and also extremely frustrating. > while > > some Pennsy consist books are available (from c. Blardone, I think), and > B&O > > fans are very fortunate, for the most part this info is very hard to > obtain. > > I've temporarily joined various email lists on egroups to inquire along > these > > lines, but most inquiries draw a deafening response. One exception was Don > > Valentine as regards B&M trains, but most folks don't seem overly familar, > or > > interested, in this subject. > > My question now would be, who can enlighten us as to what consists books > are > > available for which railroads, especially those running connecting service > > with Pennsy? I'd sure be grateful to find out some news. Thanks guys, and > > regards, > > Some differentiation of terms needs to be discussed. Specifically, consist > reports vs. makeup of trains. > > A consist report, which is what appears in the Wayner books, are a snapshot > of a specific train on a specific date at a particular location. This may or > may not include the exact car name, but often does. > > A "Makeup of Trains", the documents that Chuck Blardone sells, are PRR > divisional books used by the crews (e.g. Sunnyside Yard), telling them what > "types" of cars to put into each train. The name isn't necessarily binding, > though a particular pool of cars might be assigned regularly to a particular > named train. For instance, if train "X" typically carried to 10-6's, then > four would be assigned...two for each direction, rotating. In cases of > interchange traffic, I have seen as many as six cars assigned to the pool > due to the time it takes for those that are out to actually come back! > > The "Makeup of Trains" also dictates daily changes to a train's makeup that > are regular on a weekly schedule. For instance, there might be three extra > mail cars on a Monday, an extra coach on a Friday, etc. > > I have the "Makeup of Trains" for the New York Division, dated April 1954. > That was where I gleaned much of the info from that appears on my "24 Hours > at Harrisburg" essay. > > I've been collecting Consist Reports for over a year and have been entering > them into my online database all along. Just haven't done the GUI for all of > you to access it yet! When I do, you'll be able to search for consist > reports based on train name, train number, year, date, etc. > > (Steam Locomotive Roster had taken priority.) > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Reinhold Subject: [PRR] SUNSET PRESTIGE SERIES K-4 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:48:19 -0500 List, Not up to speed on PRR brass. Can anyone comment on the Sunset Prestige Series K-4 Model VS the PFM K-4. Thanks, Pete Reinhold PRRT&HS #5518 Universal Die & Stampings preinhol@unidie.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] SUNSET PRESTIGE SERIES K-4 Pete, STAY AWAY from the Sunset Prestige K4. The Boiler is completely wrong, among other things. Although the PFM K4 is not perfect either it is much better. I have 7 myself. The Pilot wheels are a bit small but could be replaced. For the money, aprox. 250.00-350.00 it is a much better buy than the Sunset $200.00-$300.00 cost. If you want newer or better technology look into a Precision Scale K4 ($500.00 range) or a Railworks K4 ($750.00 range). You can't go wrong with either. They are the best available. Key Imports made the Streamlined version (very expennsive) and the new company, Rail Classics K4s, look to be very promising. Hope this helps....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:44:57 -0400 From: "Corey C. Copeland" Subject: [PRR] Tower Blueprints? anyone have any kind of PRR Tower Blue prints? I love Towers and going to try and build one but need plans to do this Sincerely Corey Copeland corey@pgh.net 426 North Keelridge Rd. Hermitage, PA. 16148 724-342-3310 coreyc@pgh.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:43:19 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] freight car consists Hello folks... Another source for info on freight car consists are Bills of Lading and/or Way Bills. I got a large lot of them a while back for the PRR and a couple of other roads. These list the Car number which you can use to find out what type of car it is. Routing,via other roads or home road lines and Interchange points. Types of and weight of freight carried. Dates,which sets the year for those who model on spacific dates and other pertinet data such as agent names or persons responcible for loads and special handling instuctions. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:57:31 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] speaking of consists... Hello again all... Speaking of consists....A lot of times when i've seen pictures of PRR passenger trains i notice that there will be a coach or two placed in front of a combine sometimes. Anyone know why ? Were these cars being deadheaded to balance equipment usage or was this intentional ? Also it would be rather odd for the passengers to have to pass through the baggage section of the combine to reach the other cars,such as a diner or club car for refreshments. I know from first had experiance that on the NEC the first car of some trains in both PC and Amtrak days was/is closed until the train gets to Philly,where it is then opened up. This happens a lot from Washington to New York,and sometimes Southbound also. This practice is a carry-over from PRR times. This usually happens(ed) on trains to and from Florida. Another practice that was a carry-over was the running of what train service people on the NEC call "Hospital Trains". These were cars needing minor repairs that were run as a whole train of empty passenger cars to shops as a extra. I rode a GG-1 on one of these trains heading from Washington to Wilmington shops in the early Amtrak days. This is why i ask why you see cars ahead of a combine sometimes,as i would'nt think that cars needing minor repairs would have been run in a regular passenger carrying train. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Goss" Subject: [PRR] Railroad Days--Richmond Indiana Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:27:13 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BFFB36.178BB1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Richmond Area Railroaders Society of Richmond, Indiana will be = having their annual Railroad Days event August 26 and 27th. The highlight this year will be the opening to the public the Baggage = Depot of the old Pennsylvania Railroad Depot.=20 Vendor Space is available for FREE! For more information about the event = and the Depot check out www.railroaddays.org Doug Goss homes@infocom.com ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BFFB36.178BB1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The Richmond Area Railroaders Society = of Richmond,=20 Indiana will be having their annual Railroad Days event August 26 and=20 27th.
The highlight this year will be the = opening to the=20 public the Baggage Depot of the old Pennsylvania Railroad Depot. =
Vendor Space is available for FREE! For = more=20 information about the event and the Depot check out www.railroaddays.org
 
Doug Goss
homes@infocom.com
 
------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BFFB36.178BB1E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:15:42 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: H21a in O gauge Fellow List Members, I stand corrected!!! There is a PRR H21a in O gauge and Weaver makes it (I think). In fact, I have an order for 12 of them (in tuscan; should be red oxide). They bear the logo "Coal Goes to War" and have a BLT date of 42. I was under the impression that the H21a was a 4 bay hopper, with the chutes arranged (looking toward the side) so that they dump towards the center of the car (see wonderful ASCII line art below). | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------------------+ oo \V\V V/ V/ oo I didn't realize that there were 2 rows of bays that dump towards the center. Was there ever a 4-bay PRR hopper (like the one sortof depicted above)? MTH RailKing makes one that claims to be an H21 (but has offset (smooth) sides and doubles as Union Pacific hopper. So is Weaver correct? Thanks, George OK, no snickering about the spacing of the ribs from you HO guys ;^) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!!