From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 01:04:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Guys, Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake until the issue is on the shelves. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 06:06:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 1:04 AM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com at (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did > just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless > transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my > Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company > are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the > heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know > you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake > until the issue is on the shelves. > Wasn't my intention to spread any rumors. Anything I reported was first hand information I had previously received from Pat himself. I expressed my doubts about their eventually pulling through their problems, but there were no rumors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:28:03 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Does that mean my A-B-A Erie Builts are "collectors items"? :-( Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 4/30/00 3:00 PM, CENTGA@aol.com at (CENTGA@aol.com) wrote: > > > What has happened to MC's web site? They haven't gone to Penn Central land > > have they? Todd Horton > > > I reported on my "Merchandise Service" "Merchandise Announce" list about 6-8 > weeks ago of their status... > > They aren't out of business, per one of their principals, but they are > undergoing a "reorganization". I don't want to speculate too much, but they > pretty much were only two people. I'm guessing one wanted out. Perhaps the > other doesn't have the resources. I don't know. > > Their web site going down was supposedly just a "coincidence", that the > company hosting it was no longer going to do so. I offered a deal for > hosting via my server, but never received a response. > > My guess is that they are done for. I hope not, but I fear that will be the > case. > > Fortunately, I filled all my backorders for BP20 Sharks and the Erie-builts > and kept enough for myself. Other than that, I am sold out. I doubt we'll > ever see the FM H16-44. I have several on Advance Reservation for customers. > > Look at the bright side, at least we got two real good products from them > that we did not otherwise have!!! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 05:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Anderson Charles L CRPH Subject: RE: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:07:16 -0400 SOMEHOW THE TUCKERTON RR IS LINKED TO THE ASSETS OF THE P&R AND READING COMPANY, WHICH WERE 'BLENDED' INTO PRSL... CHAS -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:47 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 11:23:37 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Don't know any of the answers to your questions. However, I do have some Tuckerton stuff at home and will check to see what it says. Tom Mahon robert netzlof wrote: > The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad > Company". The two times this name appears: > > page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from > Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton > Railroad". > > page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 > miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists > this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by > Tuckerton RR". > > The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, > nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. > > Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR > (or at least, do not mention it in the index). > Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that > it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic > in 1915. > > The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and > Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The > Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, > pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] > controls, through ownership of a majority or all of > the capital stock, the following named companies, > whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, > as follows:..." > > I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was > controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's > line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the > CT1000. > > Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, > which seems to have been out on the end of the > Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the > PRR, listed? > Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the > Tuckerton RR, not listed? > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:24:10 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine = article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy = BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also = featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, = everyone! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Boy, it just couldn't be better...the = convention...and another=20 fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy=20 BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the=20 May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured = along=20 with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob=20 Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 12:39:11 -0700 Agreed! Also, if the esteemed members of PRR-talk have any nice modeling projects they've been holding out on, let's see them! We've still not seen any articles on PRR Baldwin switchers, RT-624's, Lima Transfers, FM H-16-44s, H-20-44s, or Trainmasters, or lots of other subjects! I would love to see this stuff finally covered. Elden -----Original Message----- From: rholden [mailto:rholden@superpa.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 12:24 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:50:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, rholden wrote: > Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine > article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy > BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco version, right? It's the same model. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 17:08:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 3:50 PM, Derrick J Brashear at (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: >> Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine >> article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy >> BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 > > You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco > version, right? It's the same model. > Yes, No, Maybe. Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:10:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark > of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where > the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). Only if what you have is "late" Model Power; I have an old Model Power unit around somewhere, and I can find no real changes in the tooling, only that they did clean it up concurrent with E-R taking it over. > However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a > fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! I'm with you there. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:37:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] BARGAIN PRR BOOKS Folks, A hobby shop here in the Twin Cities has lost it's lease due to airport expansion and is offering close-out prices. As of today everything is 40% off list price and I noticed a number of Pennsy items still on the shelf an hour ago. included were: -History of the Northern Central -Triumph II -Pennsy Electric Pictorial (or something like that...that recent book anyway) -Trackside Maryland There were some other titles as well, but I can't recall their titles. If you have any interest, their phone number is 612-869-4179. Regards, Barry Peltier ps-they also have a number of Hobbytown drives laying around,bp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:04:35 -0700 Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. I temporarily replaced the motor, which was imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better than MP? Has anyone done a good "B" unit? What chassis options do I have for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! Elden -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:23 PM To: shadow@dementia.org; jerry@pennsyrr.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 18:51:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 6:04 PM, egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil at (egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil) wrote: > Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER > Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD > Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the > drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. Agreed. The new E-R units have totally new drives. Hence the $99.95 SRP! > I temporarily replaced the motor, which was > imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then > worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they > also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other > problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get > some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having > them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. > Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was > wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better > than MP? Absolutely. New drives, better paint, etc. > Has anyone done a good "B" unit? As announced on the Merchandise Service "Merchandise Announce" list several weeks ago -- perhaps you should join -- E-R Models will be doing B units. However, they are at least a year off. The good news is that they will have N scale A Sharks out next August (2001). > What chassis options do I have > for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone > bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from > access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:59:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 4:13:54 PM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. >> Although the original motors might have been a tad better, the new E- R imports are DCC-ready, which is a help. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:14:48 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Gary: I agree with your thoughts on the running quality of the Roco sharks. I have a pair, (the old ones) that run smoother, (and quieter I may add) then my "big bucks" Overlands. The Overlands do look better, but looks aren't everything. At least that's what I always used to tell the girls! Larry Gary Mittner wrote: > Jerry, Derrick, > > But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power > Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR > details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is > the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag > speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also > hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as > well......Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 19:30:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Bob & guys, Indeed a great shark article. Perhaps I shouldn't say it out loud, but I really like my old Roco sharks. i've got a powered AB set that shame most brass...smooth and quiet as you could ask. I even repowered an old Hallmark set of (dare I say it?) Jersey Central babyface Baldwins with the Roco drives and have never regretted it. I'm always looking for those units are good prices. If the new ones are improved, they must be very good indeed. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:45:12 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to = our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on = the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading = my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco = and the E-R=20 Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much = better on=20 the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose=20 the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R = versions,=20 but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for = you=20 comments! Bob Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:32:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 1:27:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rholden@superpa.net writes: << Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. >> Bob, Stay tuned, I have two PRR diesel articles in the works as we speak. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:31:21 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group: One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint. I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint. One thing bothered me. The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes. God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker. Larry rholden wrote: > Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R > Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much > better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I > guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive > anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what > Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group:

One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint.  I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint.  One thing bothered me.  The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes.  God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker.  <G>

Larry

rholden wrote:

  Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden.
  --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 01:04:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Guys, Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake until the issue is on the shelves. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 06:06:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 1:04 AM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com at (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did > just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless > transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my > Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company > are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the > heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know > you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake > until the issue is on the shelves. > Wasn't my intention to spread any rumors. Anything I reported was first hand information I had previously received from Pat himself. I expressed my doubts about their eventually pulling through their problems, but there were no rumors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:28:03 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Does that mean my A-B-A Erie Builts are "collectors items"? :-( Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 4/30/00 3:00 PM, CENTGA@aol.com at (CENTGA@aol.com) wrote: > > > What has happened to MC's web site? They haven't gone to Penn Central land > > have they? Todd Horton > > > I reported on my "Merchandise Service" "Merchandise Announce" list about 6-8 > weeks ago of their status... > > They aren't out of business, per one of their principals, but they are > undergoing a "reorganization". I don't want to speculate too much, but they > pretty much were only two people. I'm guessing one wanted out. Perhaps the > other doesn't have the resources. I don't know. > > Their web site going down was supposedly just a "coincidence", that the > company hosting it was no longer going to do so. I offered a deal for > hosting via my server, but never received a response. > > My guess is that they are done for. I hope not, but I fear that will be the > case. > > Fortunately, I filled all my backorders for BP20 Sharks and the Erie-builts > and kept enough for myself. Other than that, I am sold out. I doubt we'll > ever see the FM H16-44. I have several on Advance Reservation for customers. > > Look at the bright side, at least we got two real good products from them > that we did not otherwise have!!! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 05:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Anderson Charles L CRPH Subject: RE: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:07:16 -0400 SOMEHOW THE TUCKERTON RR IS LINKED TO THE ASSETS OF THE P&R AND READING COMPANY, WHICH WERE 'BLENDED' INTO PRSL... CHAS -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:47 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 11:23:37 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Don't know any of the answers to your questions. However, I do have some Tuckerton stuff at home and will check to see what it says. Tom Mahon robert netzlof wrote: > The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad > Company". The two times this name appears: > > page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from > Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton > Railroad". > > page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 > miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists > this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by > Tuckerton RR". > > The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, > nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. > > Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR > (or at least, do not mention it in the index). > Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that > it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic > in 1915. > > The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and > Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The > Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, > pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] > controls, through ownership of a majority or all of > the capital stock, the following named companies, > whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, > as follows:..." > > I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was > controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's > line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the > CT1000. > > Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, > which seems to have been out on the end of the > Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the > PRR, listed? > Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the > Tuckerton RR, not listed? > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:24:10 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine = article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy = BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also = featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, = everyone! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Boy, it just couldn't be better...the = convention...and another=20 fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy=20 BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the=20 May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured = along=20 with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob=20 Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 12:39:11 -0700 Agreed! Also, if the esteemed members of PRR-talk have any nice modeling projects they've been holding out on, let's see them! We've still not seen any articles on PRR Baldwin switchers, RT-624's, Lima Transfers, FM H-16-44s, H-20-44s, or Trainmasters, or lots of other subjects! I would love to see this stuff finally covered. Elden -----Original Message----- From: rholden [mailto:rholden@superpa.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 12:24 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:50:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, rholden wrote: > Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine > article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy > BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco version, right? It's the same model. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 17:08:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 3:50 PM, Derrick J Brashear at (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: >> Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine >> article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy >> BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 > > You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco > version, right? It's the same model. > Yes, No, Maybe. Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:10:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark > of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where > the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). Only if what you have is "late" Model Power; I have an old Model Power unit around somewhere, and I can find no real changes in the tooling, only that they did clean it up concurrent with E-R taking it over. > However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a > fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! I'm with you there. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:37:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] BARGAIN PRR BOOKS Folks, A hobby shop here in the Twin Cities has lost it's lease due to airport expansion and is offering close-out prices. As of today everything is 40% off list price and I noticed a number of Pennsy items still on the shelf an hour ago. included were: -History of the Northern Central -Triumph II -Pennsy Electric Pictorial (or something like that...that recent book anyway) -Trackside Maryland There were some other titles as well, but I can't recall their titles. If you have any interest, their phone number is 612-869-4179. Regards, Barry Peltier ps-they also have a number of Hobbytown drives laying around,bp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:04:35 -0700 Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. I temporarily replaced the motor, which was imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better than MP? Has anyone done a good "B" unit? What chassis options do I have for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! Elden -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:23 PM To: shadow@dementia.org; jerry@pennsyrr.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 18:51:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 6:04 PM, egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil at (egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil) wrote: > Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER > Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD > Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the > drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. Agreed. The new E-R units have totally new drives. Hence the $99.95 SRP! > I temporarily replaced the motor, which was > imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then > worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they > also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other > problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get > some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having > them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. > Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was > wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better > than MP? Absolutely. New drives, better paint, etc. > Has anyone done a good "B" unit? As announced on the Merchandise Service "Merchandise Announce" list several weeks ago -- perhaps you should join -- E-R Models will be doing B units. However, they are at least a year off. The good news is that they will have N scale A Sharks out next August (2001). > What chassis options do I have > for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone > bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from > access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:59:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 4:13:54 PM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. >> Although the original motors might have been a tad better, the new E- R imports are DCC-ready, which is a help. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:14:48 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Gary: I agree with your thoughts on the running quality of the Roco sharks. I have a pair, (the old ones) that run smoother, (and quieter I may add) then my "big bucks" Overlands. The Overlands do look better, but looks aren't everything. At least that's what I always used to tell the girls! Larry Gary Mittner wrote: > Jerry, Derrick, > > But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power > Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR > details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is > the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag > speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also > hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as > well......Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 19:30:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Bob & guys, Indeed a great shark article. Perhaps I shouldn't say it out loud, but I really like my old Roco sharks. i've got a powered AB set that shame most brass...smooth and quiet as you could ask. I even repowered an old Hallmark set of (dare I say it?) Jersey Central babyface Baldwins with the Roco drives and have never regretted it. I'm always looking for those units are good prices. If the new ones are improved, they must be very good indeed. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:45:12 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to = our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on = the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading = my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco = and the E-R=20 Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much = better on=20 the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose=20 the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R = versions,=20 but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for = you=20 comments! Bob Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:32:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 1:27:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rholden@superpa.net writes: << Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. >> Bob, Stay tuned, I have two PRR diesel articles in the works as we speak. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:31:21 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group: One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint. I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint. One thing bothered me. The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes. God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker. Larry rholden wrote: > Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R > Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much > better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I > guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive > anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what > Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group:

One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint.  I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint.  One thing bothered me.  The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes.  God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker.  <G>

Larry

rholden wrote:

  Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden.
  --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 23:09:48 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Excellent Shark article!!! Kris, list, Fantastic job on the BF15! The engine looks gorgeous, and your detailing was (to an admitted steam modeller) exhaustive. By any chance, do you (or any listmembers) know if any Baldwin Sharks ever graced the Camden and Amboy or New York and Long Branch? I remember seeing shots of the engines in New Jersey, but always under catenary; so far I've only seen shots of the BP20 engines on the C&A and NYLB. The freight sharks were probably best off where there were hills and tonnage, which probably explains why I haven't seen shots of them in East Jersey. Thanks again for a motivating article! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:27:15 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. From: Fred G Rea Does any one know a source for leaf springs for HO trucks. In "the good old days" I used to buy them and pop out the coils on Central Valley trucks on my cabins. What does one do now ? Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:30:45 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFB3CD.A7B09B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to build my models of the = BF-15 and BF-16. The subject in the article used what I think is the = older version of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions are the same = but the fuel tanks/battery boxes are different. The older version had = poorly molded details (ie doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom = corners. When I built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more accurate = fuel tank. =20 The major inaccuracy of the Shark in the article is the rear diaphram. = Since I lacked good photos I guessed what they might look like and used = the diaphragm kit from American Limited. Its supposed to be used for = EMD F7s, etc. This is not prototypical. If any of you get to go to the = convention look for them because I expect to display them side by side. = You'll see the tremendous difference. =20 Please offer constructive criticism. I know of two other items which I = missed. There should be another sand hatch half way up the nose above = the front truck and the side rear door should be recessed, much like the = cab doors. I could kick myself for not including this because I knew = all along I had to fix it but if you can believe it, I just forgot! Fire away. Regards, Kris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: rholden=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:45 PM Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks = to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on = the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading = my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFB3CD.A7B09B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to = build my=20 models of the BF-15 and BF-16.  The subject in the article used = what I=20 think is the older version of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions = are the=20 same but the fuel tanks/battery boxes are different.  The older = version had=20 poorly molded details (ie doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom=20 corners.  When I built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more = accurate fuel=20 tank. 
 
The major inaccuracy of the Shark in the article = is the=20 rear diaphram.  Since I lacked good photos I guessed what they = might look=20 like and used the diaphragm kit from American Limited.  Its = supposed to be=20 used for EMD F7s, etc.  This is not prototypical.  If any of = you get=20 to go to the convention look for them because I expect to display them = side by=20 side.  You'll see the tremendous difference. 
 
Please offer constructive criticism.  I = know of two=20 other items which I missed.  There should be another sand hatch = half way up=20 the nose above the front truck and the side rear door should be = recessed, much=20 like the cab doors.  I could kick myself for not including this = because I=20 knew all along I had to fix it but if you can believe it, I just=20 forgot!
 
Fire away.
 
Regards,
 
Kris
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 rholden=20
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:45 = PM
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy = Sharks!

Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco = and the=20 E-R Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so = much=20 better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I = guess you=20 could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am = upgrading=20 my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version.=20 Thanks for you comments! Bob = Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFB3CD.A7B09B60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 02:41:49 EDT Subject: [PRR] Kris' PRR Sharks! Hey Yuze Gize, I have to admit that I knew of this project before it printed. Kris had told me it was in the MR archives for nearly two years now. What he has not told you is that this model is a first effort, and a first article. I would say that he has done a tremendous job and his work never ceases to amaze me. We chatted a bit tonight on the phone and I told him I planned to make a few comments but not until I read the entire article, and I have. Excellent work! Combining research with good modeling discipline makes for excellent entertainment for all of us here that share the same feeling about our favorite railroad. I am sure we could all find a few little things that are not as correct as they should be, but it is the complete effort that make this such a beautiful model. Could each of us do better, perhaps collectively yes? Does writing such an article put you in the firing line, yes, it always has for me. Kris and all, if we criticize the whole of the project, what have we gained? If we simple enjoy what you have put before us we have something to aspire too, and challenge ourselves to do at least as well as... << I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to build my models of the BF-15 and BF-16. The subject in the article used what I think is the older version of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions are the same but the fuel tanks/battery boxes are different. The older version had poorly molded details (i.e., doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom corners. When I built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more accurate fuel tank.>> I only have the first run of the MP Sharks and Like Gary and Berry I would not part with mine. One thing I am going to do is put a constant lighting kit in them. I have 4 powered A's and 2 unpowered B's, one still in the original Santa Fe Warbonnet... My fuel tanks are well detailed. <> So tell us Kris, what can we do for a better diaphragm? I only wished I could see them together. I have one set complete in Five stripes and the two separate lettering placements, this make for some interesting comments... <> Well, at least you know what needs to be done on your next set, correct? We are our own worst critics, we are by nature harder on ourselves than other are on us. As I say, a beautiful effort, I am looking forward to more articles from you. Hopefully your work has as a profound effect on others as it has on me. You have motivated me enough to get my PA/B article finished... <> Greg Martin Admirer not critical... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 08:49:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. In a message dated 5/1/00 11:32:22 PM Central Daylight Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: << Does any one know a source for leaf springs for HO trucks. >> Unfortunately, the package of a few I have doesn't have the maker listed, and I hafve had them for years anyway. However, Bowser may still sell a leaf spring assembly (combination leaf and coil) for the Kiesel tender truck--don't know if that is usable for your purposes. It is part #320. Phone is 800-327-5126. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 07:35:04 -0700 Martin Lofton of Sunshine Models sold a nice leaf spring to be used on the F30a flat car trucks that was made in resin and could be used on just about anything. Might be too narrow for your use, as it was meant to fit in between the widely-spaced coil spring packages on the sideframe. Nice kit, by the way! -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 5:49 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. In a message dated 5/1/00 11:32:22 PM Central Daylight Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: << Does any one know a source for leaf springs for HO trucks. >> Unfortunately, the package of a few I have doesn't have the maker listed, and I hafve had them for years anyway. However, Bowser may still sell a leaf spring assembly (combination leaf and coil) for the Kiesel tender truck--don't know if that is usable for your purposes. It is part #320. Phone is 800-327-5126. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 15:28:54 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention Update From: Jerry Britton I got an update from Ivan Frantz over the weekend and from that information updated the convention agenda residing on the Cyber Division's web site: http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com There are five layout tours available. Three are in homes; two are clubs. PLAN WELL as not all are open at all times! Maps will be available at the convention. Friday night there are two home layouts open from 7-9. Their proximity barely allows visiting both. One is in Shermans Dale and one in Mechanicsburg. On Sunday, the Shermans Dale home layout will be open from noon until 3. Take note that Ivan did not know this and it may not be shown as open on the information haded out at the convention! This layout will indeed be open again! The club layout in Mechanicsburg will also be open. Heading down I-83 towards York, there will be a home layout open in Emigsville and a club in York. ALSO, as reported months ago on the Cyber Division site but only now realized by The Society, the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS will have HARRIS Tower open on Sunday from noon until 3 p.m. If you've never been there, I highly recommend it. Though they probably won't kick you out, I can tell you that the big arrival will be the eastbound Three Rivers. I don't know when it is "due" in, but this past Sunday it arrived at around 3:15. It had 26 cars, of which only 5 were passenger!!! They cut off 5 roadrailers after about a 20 minute layover. Then the switcher went to work. Most action is Harrisburg/east, so there's not a lot passing in front of the tower, but my son and I did see 7 trains in about an hour! Not sure what the traffic is like earlier in the afternoon. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For Brass Enthusiasts (under development) http://www.brasstrains.net For Dealers and Manufacturers http://www.modelrailroadnews.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] Miracle Castings BP20, Baby TM Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 16:43:42 -0400 I have just talked to Dave at Miracle Castings. They are reorganizing but they expect to be in business for a while! Rumors of their demise appear to be premature. They are shipping additional BP20 A units to us today. He also says that the Baby Trainmaster should be finished in a few weeks. Dennis mailto: Dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 (732) 271-0800 Voice (732) 271-0805 FAX ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] K4 aux. light. Modelers, I am in the midst of modeling another K4. This time it is a PFM modernized K4. I am modeling it to represent how it would have appeared in the mid 1950's. This one will retain its chicken coop pilot but have the modernized headlight/generator positions. I noticed on certain photos that the Pennsy started using a small auxilary light mounted above the Keystone Number Plate. (purpose?) I want to add this feature to this K4 also. I want to use an MV lens to represent the light but what would be the best part to represent the light housing itself. Anyone have experience on this part?...TIA, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] We're not dead yet! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:27:21 -0400 Hi Everyone! Sorry I haven't responded to the posts on the list sooner, but I've been one busy camper. Just so everyone has the story straight, here's what's been happening at Miracle Castings Inc., and what will happen: 1) Miracle Castings has undergone an internal reorganization, which has seen the following changes take place: Mike White has stepped down as CEO, and is being replaced by me (Pat Lawless). Scott Heiden remains as President. Mike has taken over the Vice President's position, but won't be involved on a day-to-day basis with the operation of the company, due to other committments. While the negotiations around these business changes were taking place, not much activity was going on within the company, due to the uncertainty of the outcome. However, as of last Wednesday, the necessary papers were signed, and everyone here is happy with the outcome. 2) The web site problems actually were due to the service provider temporarily shutting down. They shed their dial-up service, reorganized, and re-opened offering only web hosting services. Our site is now back up and running, but there are still a few glitches. Let me know if you find any. Needless to say we weren't happy with the complete lack of notice, and coming when it did, this certainly was enough to generate a few rumours. 3) The company is definitely going ahead with the H-15-44, as well as with lots of future projects. As owners, Scott and I will be handling the day-to-day operations of the company, and we are committed to seeing this through. Miracle Castings is here for the long haul. The response to the products we have already offered has proven to us that there is a market for what we have to offer, and we aren't going to let the opportunity go by. 4) To help grow the company faster, and improve communications and service with our customers, I have added a Sales Manager to our organization. His name is Dave Henwood, and he can be reached at sales@mc.cyklone.com , or on his cell phone at (519) 754-6945. Dave is an accomplished modeler with an excellent background in sales, plus a thorough knowledge of the model railroading industry. We're glad to have him associated with our company, and you will find him to be very helpful if you have questions. 5) I'm swamped! There's a lot of catch-up work to do, but I'm making progress, and getting lots of help from the other people who are associated with Miracle Castings. Just for the record, here's some of the people who have been involved with Miracle Castings in the past, and who are looking forward to being involved in the future: Al and Debbie Stefanovic: Casting contractors John Lucek: Kit assembly and physical plant Barry McClelland: Model maker, mold maker, and caster. Judy Heiden: Administration All of these folks have advised me that they are behind us 100%, and that they are looking forward to being very busy in the future. In short, it's going to take a very large stick to kill this company, so don't worry about us. Now that things are cooking again, we're going to be pushing hard to complete existing projects (such as the H-15-44 and the Gas Launch), and planning for future products as well. So stand by, and we'll have some new stuff for you to buy shortly! I'll keep Jerry notified of availability just as soon as I have some firm numbers. Regards, Pat Lawless CEO Miracle Castings Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings BP20, Baby TM Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:47:33 -0700 Dennis, Jerry and just about everybody else, The following was sent to me by one of the members of my Model RR club. For those of you who are not familiar with The Original Whistle Stop Hobbies, it is probably the largest and best hobby shop in the Los Angeles area. I am passing it on because I believe that these guys are on the right track. Bill Daniels > >From: The Original Whistle Stop > >Reply-To: "HotSheet - The Original Whistle Stop Announcements" > > > >To: "HotSheet - The Original Whistle Stop Announcements" > > > >Subject: Much Ado Over Kalmbach and eHobbies > >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 12:37:33 > > > >Here's some news about something that's happening in our industry. We think > >you should know about it. > > > >One of the first things Whistle Stop customers see when they walk in our > >door is a wall of model and prototype railroad magazines. Prominent among > >that selection are titles from Kalmbach Publishing Co. You know most of > >them: "Model Railroader", "Trains", "Garden Railways", "Classic Toy > >Trains", "Finescale Modeler." > > > >These magazines are not on our shelves any more. > > > >Well, since you asked...We've suspended all Kalmbach products in response > >to the April 4th announcement that Kalmbach and eHobbies, a newly > >established Web-only retailer of hobby supplies, have joined forces. The > >announced purpose of their joint effort is to ..."enable eHobbies to > >provide the most comprehensive hobby experience anywhere" > > > >That sounds pretty good, at least on the surface. We're hobbyists, too. We > >like what the Internet has done and could do to enhance our hobby > >experience. (We, as retailers, like the opportunity the Internet gives us > >to reach you). We like Kalmbach magazines and How-To books. Sounds like a > >Win-Win deal for everyone. > > > >However, as a competing advertiser in Kalmbach publications we feel this > >announced partnership equates to Kalmbach's endorsement of eHobbies over > >all of its other retail advertisers, including Whistle Stop. > > > >We, and a bunch of other hobby retailers, don't feel we should help > >Kalmbach single out and build up one of our competitors, no matter how > >benevolent that competitor may seem. > > > >By paying for advertising in Kalmbach magazines, by selling their books, > >magazines and videos, we help Kalmbach make this competitor stronger. We > >have elected not to. We have pulled our ads from their magazines, and we've > >pulled their products off our shelves. > > > >In fact at the National Hobby Retailers Association annual conference last > >week in Las Vegas, roughly 75 other dealers from across the country handed > >Kalmbach a signed notice that they were taking the same action. > > > >We could leave it at that. Some of you probably wish we would! You might be > >saying. "I don't care about the politics of the business. I don't care if > >Whistle Stop and Kalmbach are having a tiff. I just want my magazines!" > > > >And that's fair. We apologise that this issue may result in some customers > >not having easy access to their favorite magazines. In the long run, we > >think you'll benefit. > > > >Who is eHobbies? You've seen their multi-page full-color "Chief in the > >desert" advertisements in every hobby magazine there is. Some of you have > >probably logged on to check it out. If you're an experienced model > >railroader you probably didn't stay long, because there isn't much there > >for you. > > > >If some company wants to spend maga-bucks to advertise their Web site that > >doesn't have anything on it, why should Whistle Stop care? > > > >Look more closely. Why would anyone with the kind of money that's being > >spent on these ads want to spend it for that Web site? And why should you > >care! If you're a serious hobbyist...trains, plains or submarines, you > >should care a lot. > > > >The one conclusion that most hobby retailers (That's us) have reached is > >that eHobbies exists to establish the basis of an IPO. An Eye-Pee-What? An > >Initial Public Offering. A sale of stock in their company to the public. > > > >It doesn't matter how much they spend on promotion, and they've spent a > >ton. It doesn't matter how little they sell (How much have you bought from > >them?) It doesn't matter that eHobbies might never make any money. We (Not > >just Whistle Stop, but a lot of other hobby shops) believe the fundamental > >purpose for eHobbies is to convince speculators that there is so much > >untapped business in the hobby industry (not just model trains) that what > >this company is spending now doesn't matter. > > > >If you've gotten this far, you might write this entire issue off as a bunch > >of established retailers like Whistle Stop trying to maintain the status > >quo; trying to hold on to their piece of the pie. It may sound like a bunch > >of little guys sounding the alarm as the BIG GUYS are invading their > >territory. Kalmbach and eHobbies are definitely the BIG GUYS. > > > >To this we admit partial guilt. This is our business after all. Of course > >we're looking out for our best interests. We feel it is also in your best > >interest as a hobbyist to have a local hobby shop for supplies and > >information now and in the future. > > > >We realize the nature of selling anything -- hobbies included -- has > >changed with the existence of the Internet. Your ability to read this is > >evidence enough. > > > >eHobbies has the resources to potentially attract new customers into hobby > >fields. We don't know how many new hobby customers are out there. But we're > >concerned that, contrary to eHobbies boast, those customers will not > >recieve "the most comprehensive hobby experience anywhere" until they do go > >to their local hobby store. > > > >The partnership between eHobbies and Kalmbach does not promote local hobby > >shops, so we cannot support it. > > > >So, do we think eHobbies is some evil force that will engulf and devour the > >hobby retailing industry and then go public and move on? No....and yes. > > > >No, their ultimate impact may only be on Wall Street when potential > >investors realize the hobby industry pie is only so big and the wildly > >speculative window of opportunity for Dot.Com-only companies that don't > >actually make a profit has already closed. > > > >In that case, the vast sums spent by eHobbies will somehow have to be > >justified by profits from the products they actually sell. That's going to > >be quite a trick based on our 50 years observing what it costs to sell > >hobbies; especially at a time when margins -- our profit on every item we > >sell -- have been shrinking every year. > > > >On the other hand, we (hobby retailers) do feel eHobbies is acting like one > >of the bad guys. The immediate impact from a company like eHobbies, is they > >will cut into our ability to even carry the products that attract new > >customers. Without new customers we can't grow. If we don't grow, we die. > > > >If items like starter sets and new engines won't sell here, we'll have to > >quit buying them. eHobbies may have beaucoup bucks to spend on promotion > >and no incentive to be conventionally profitable. Whistle Stop has to make > >a profit to keep the doors open. > > > >Don't worry. Whistle Stop plans to be around for quite a while. Though > >eHobbies may take a bite out of our sales, their impact on Whistle Stop > >will hopefully be no greater than any number of other new kids on the block > >over the years. This new Giant-RetailerDot.Com shouldn't affect us any more > >than Giant-Mail-Order Inc. has in the past. > > > >Our level of service and depth of inventory will hopefully prevail over the > >discounts and flash of these other faceless companies. > > > >Think it over. Take some action.Write or E-Mail us. Write to Kalmbach. Let > >us know if you feel our reaction to Kalmbach's partnership with eHobbies is > >appropriate. > > > >Thanks for getting all the way to the end of this! We'll try to keep our > >industry politics to a minimum. > > > >We look forward to serving you. > > > > > >Brian, Fred and the gang. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] Re: Kris' PRR Sharks! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:49:26 -0400 Greg MArtin wrote, "So tell us Kris, what can we do for a better diaphragm? I only wished I could see them together. I have one set complete in Five stripes and the two separate lettering placements, this make for some interesting comments... " I scratch built the disphragm on the second Shark. There is an excellent book from Withers Publishing entitled, "Baldwin Cab and Transfer Units" It has a wealth of information. For example some Sharks have a fuel tank with a center dial gauge (which was plagued by leaks) while others have a sight tube on the lower front corner. Lots of trivia. It contains several good shots of the rear door. Without photos its hard to explain. Here's a tip. The rear door had a safety chain that you snapped across the diaphragm to prevent falls. Make the loops to fasten the chain from scale chain. I used 40 links per inch scale chain. Cut the end off of one link then drill number 80 holes and attach with super glue. Thanks. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 2:41 AM Subject: Kris' PRR Sharks! > Hey Yuze Gize, > > I have to admit that I knew of this project before it printed. Kris had told > me it was in the MR archives for nearly two years now. What he has not told > you is that this model is a first effort, and a first article. I would say > that he has done a tremendous job and his work never ceases to amaze me. We > chatted a bit tonight on the phone and I told him I planned to make a few > comments but not until I read the entire article, and I have. Excellent > work! > > Combining research with good modeling discipline makes for excellent > entertainment for all of us here that share the same feeling about our > favorite railroad. I am sure we could all find a few little things that are > not as correct as they should be, but it is the complete effort that make > this such a beautiful model. Could each of us do better, perhaps > collectively yes? Does writing such an article put you in the firing line, > yes, it always has for me. > > Kris and all, if we criticize the whole of the project, what have we gained? > If we simple enjoy what you have put before us we have something to aspire > too, and challenge ourselves to do at least as well as... > > << I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to build my models of the BF-15 > and BF-16. The subject in the article used what I think is the older version > of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions are the same but the fuel > tanks/battery boxes are different. The older version had poorly molded > details (i.e., doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom corners. When I > built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more accurate fuel tank.>> > > I only have the first run of the MP Sharks and Like Gary and Berry I would > not part with mine. One thing I am going to do is put a constant lighting > kit in them. I have 4 powered A's and 2 unpowered B's, one still in the > original Santa Fe Warbonnet... My fuel tanks are well detailed. > > < Since I lacked good photos I guessed what they might look like and used the > diaphragm kit from American Limited. Its supposed to be used for EMD F7s, > etc. This is not prototypical. If any of you get to go to the convention > look for them because I expect to display them side by side. You'll see the > tremendous difference.>> > > So tell us Kris, what can we do for a better diaphragm? I only wished I > could see them together. I have one set complete in Five stripes and the two > separate lettering placements, this make for some interesting comments... > > < missed. There should be another sand hatch half way up the nose above the > front truck and the side rear door should be recessed, much like the cab > doors. I could kick myself for not including this because I knew all along I > had to fix it but if you can believe it, I just forgot! > > Fire away.>> > > Well, at least you know what needs to be done on your next set, correct? We > are our own worst critics, we are by nature harder on ourselves than other > are on us. > > As I say, a beautiful effort, I am looking forward to more articles from you. > Hopefully your work has as a profound effect on others as it has on me. You > have motivated me enough to get my PA/B article finished... > > < > Kris >> > > Greg Martin Admirer not critical... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Cullen" Subject: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:00:06 -0400 Did the PRR ever use oil tenders, around 50-60 foot long, for their steam engines? If they did, what kind of trucks did they use; e.g. number of axles? Thanks. Jim ----------------------------------------------- Elizabeth & Austin Divisions of the PRR (N-Scale) http://members.tripod.com/jimcullen Jim's Railroad Pictures http://www.geocities.com/jimcullen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:59:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] "E Hobbies"/ Kalmbach (Was Miricle Castings,etc) Folks, This is a reminder of a debate dating back to my earliest days in the hobby, in the 1950's, and probably long before. Then of course, there were no electronic contenders, and the debate raged over mail order VS retail hobby shops. In the forefront of the "support your local hobby shop" ranks was always Kalmbach, in spite of the many mail order dealers advertisning in their mags. They've since, far as I notice, fallen rather silent on the issue, and now have joinded the "mail order" forces, it appears. Some other of the mags won't even carry ads for discounters, to this day. Guess that's about as strong of a position as you can take. I know some guys who buy only from hobby shops, full list prices notwithstanding. Me, heck, I try never to pay full price for anything, least as far as hobby goods and cars and train tickets go. If I can get an Atheran USRA mike for $110, I ain't paying $140. I know the dealer has his costs to cover, but I've got mine , too. I've got young kids and every extra buck I spend is one less for their needs. Life is tough, to be sure. I finally got lucky and a shop opened near me where the prices are discounted and the dealer is actually a very nice person. I can't help it, but most of the full price guys around here act like it bothers them when someone comes in to shop..and I ain't giving these stiffs list price for that kind of service. Oh well, the debate will rage. I took a curious look at eHobbies and felt no urge to break out the credit card. On the other hand, I placed an order with Jerry's Merchandise service once and had it in about four days: most excellant service. A tough trade and I've really come to think service with a smile, at a good price, is the key to survival. Regards, Barry Peltier St.Paul, MN ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? Jim, The only evidence I see of the Pennsy using oil tenders were the handful of L1 2-8-2's and of course the leased 2-10-4 from the Santa Fe. I believe these tenders had 8 wheel Buckeye type trucks. Ofcourse this wasn't a Pennsy design....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 06:36:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] "E Hobbies"/ Kalmbach (Was Miricle Castings,etc) From: Jerry Britton On 5/2/00 10:59 PM, BPX29@aol.com at (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > This is a reminder of a debate dating back to my earliest days in the hobby, > in the 1950's, and probably long before. Then of course, there were no > electronic contenders, and the debate raged over mail order VS retail hobby > shops. In the forefront of the "support your local hobby shop" ranks was > always Kalmbach, in spite of the many mail order dealers advertisning in > their mags. They've since, far as I notice, fallen rather silent on the > issue, and now have joinded the "mail order" forces, it appears. Some other > of the mags won't even carry ads for discounters, to this day. Guess that's > about as strong of a position as you can take. I haven't verified anything direct myself, but I was notified that there is an ORGANIZED boycott of advertising starting against the Kalmbach publications. I am not an advertiser, so I am not involved. However, it will inevitably weaken magazines such as MR. Heck, I make one pass just reading the ads! Lost ads mean lost income means fewer pages or less quality. In the shadows of the impending Microsoft split -- with apologies to John Cooper! -- it is wrong for a trade magazine to ally itself with the distribution channel. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 04:46:15 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? --- Jim Cullen wrote: > > Did the PRR ever use oil tenders, around 50-60 foot > long, for their steam > engines? If they did, what kind of trucks did they > use; e.g. number of > axles? At the level of detail you're asking about, this won't be much help, but... I was a little kid during WW2 (the big one) and I vaguely recall having seen and having been told about some PRR engines which burned oil. As I recall, they just had an oil tank built into what had been the coal bunker space. This was told to me as an example of how the war was altering "the way things are done". I've puzzled over that from time to time in the decades since. During the war there was a continual fuss about petroleum products, gasoline rationing, admonitions to conserve gasoline, news items on the importance of producing aviation fuel and fuel for tanks rather than civilian motor fuel, and on and on. How then would burning oil in steam locomotives be advantageous? My guess is that in that era, the refiners weren't as clever at cracking heavy petroleum fractions to produce gasoline. Hence, producing bezillions of gallons of avgas left behind large quantities of heavy, tarry stuff good only for burning to raise steam. Altering locomotives to burn that would free up coal which might then be used to make coke to make steel, another hot item at the time. Don't know how well it worked out, don't know if the locomotive(s) I saw were a small sample out of many or all that there were. As I recall, the chief or only distinguishing characteristic was no pile of coal visible in the tender. That's not to say that Phase 2 of the project didn't involve speciallly designed tenders. Wish I had taken notes at the time, but had I had the maturity to do so then, good chance this letter would have to be posthumous. Doubt that there's much chance of finding photos, as photographing railroads was unlawful "for the duration of the war effort". ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 08:21:15 -0400 From: Robert Wickus Subject: [PRR] Form CT 220 Does anyone on the list know where I can buy, beg, borrow or copy a blank Form CT 220? If anyone can help, please contact me off list Many thanks, Bob Wickus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 05:59:21 -0700 Well, I guess it's time I jumped into this controversy. As I understand it, locomotives assigned to the Baltimore area were set up to burn oil...this includes the previously mentioned L1s class locomotives as well as some B class switchers. I don't know if any other locomotives were also set up to burn oil. Oil had some advantages over coal, in that it had a higher BTU content (you burned less to produce more heat), no cinder cutting of flues and superheater elements, and no ash formation, which meant that there was no ash disposal problem. Steam locomotives that were set up to burn oil had a seperate tank installed in the tender, whether it was originally set up to burn coal or not. This had two advantages. One that if the tank developed a leak, it could be easily removed for repair, and Two, locomotives could be readily converted from coal to oil (or back again if necessary). I read somewhere that the PRR gave early consideration (around the turn of the last century) to converting all locomotive fuel to oil. It was cheaper than coal, and the other money saving considerations were also factors. But further analysis showed that at the time the PRR would use so much oil they would push the price up so that the price advantage would disappear. You don't see that kind of thinking much these days! Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist,