Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 11:10:42 +1000 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: [PRR] Steam Pics --=====_95455144241=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi fellow SPFs, For those who haven't noticed, Paul Walton has posted some excellent PRR steam pics to the alt.binaries.pictures.rail newsgroup. Well worth a look! Mick --=====_95455144241=_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

Hi fellow SPFs,

For those who haven't noticed,

Paul Walton has posted some excellent PRR steam pics to

the alt.binaries.pictures.rail newsgroup.

Well worth a look!

Mick

--=====_95455144241=_-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] X31/X32 Family Roof Design (was X32 Wartime Troop Car Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:25:21 -1000 Bruce wrote: I always get it confused...which one had the inset roof? I agree in looking at the pics that at least some of the cars appear to have inset roofs. My Bowser X-32a has a flush roof, as does the Railworks P-30a. The article states that both X-32 and X-32a cars were used for conversions but that all the troop sleepers were X-32 (and not X-32a). Bruce, Sorry for the delay - had to research the references, and I've been on the road a bunch lately. Early Class X31, X32, and X33 boxcars had the inset roof design with a pronounced center peak that tapered toward the eaves. During late 1935 - early 1936, the cars were revised to incorporate the "flush roof" design to add approximately 5 inches of clearance across the width of the car. X32 number series 60112-60171 and X33 number series 60172-60221 were built with the inset roof. All other number series had the flush roof. I don't have information that specific for X31 class cars, but the changeover happened at about the same time for the 40 ft cars. (By the way, if anyone has a copy of Ian Fischer's article from Vol 14 No 1 of The Keystone, I will gladly pay for a reproduction). References: Richard Burg, "Pennsy 50 ft Round Roof Boxes", Rail Model Journal, Feb 96, p 15. Richard Burg, "Pennsylvania Railroad X31 40 ft Boxcars", Rail Model Journal, Mar 15, p 15. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 07:27:01 EST Subject: [PRR] Pennsylvania Railroad No. 99-C-1 Brake and Train Air Many of you are undoubtedly familiar with PRR's 99-C-1 rule book of braking instructions, but I just found my first in Jack Fravert's materials that we are preparing for auction. As I'd expect, on the Pennsy an important subject like air braking has many detailed rules covering most operating conditions. Of course, I already knew that the special Madison Hill braking instructions in Western Region timetables supplement this document. However, one thing that surprised me is the list in the back of 99-C-1 naming specific grades and their minimum descent time. These included: Newton to Pottsville 10.8 miles 39 minutes Clearfield Branch, Summit to Vail 9.8 miles 43 minutes AR to Slope 11.1 miles 38 minutes AR to Wye 16.4 miles 62 minutes Keating Summit Grade 5 miles 20 minutes Kane to Wilcox 8.6 miles 28 minutes North Madison to Madison 1.36 miles 7 minutes Unsurprisingly, the Madison Incline is the only one of these notorious grades in Western Region. Incidentally, my local division of the NMRA will be making a field trip to Madison IN on Saturday May 13. By then, the trees, the flowering plants, and the snake population in the woods around this picturesque river town should be in full bloom. We expect to visit the grade and the station restoration; I'm sure I'll find gone all the 1893 Weir Frog switchwork that survived into the 1970's. Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241-1625 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 15:53:49 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] flatcars Hello All... A while back someone asked for info on the PRR's depressed center six wheeled truck flat cars. I had remembered that Railworks had some brass cars in HO scale,but this modeler was building in S scale. i deleted my e-mail and lost the address. To who ever it was there are pictures of one of these cars and other Pennsy flats in Railworks ad in the February issue of Model Railroad Craftsman. This is on page 105. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 07:27:01 EST From: RickTipton@aol.com Subject: [PRR-FAX] Pennsylvania Railroad No. 99-C-1 Brake and Train Air Signal Instructions Many of you are undoubtedly familiar with PRR's 99-C-1 rule book of braking instructions, but I just found my first in Jack Fravert's materials that we are preparing for auction. As I'd expect, on the Pennsy an important subject like air braking has many detailed rules covering most operating conditions. Of course, I already knew that the special Madison Hill braking instructions in Western Region timetables supplement this document. However, one thing that surprised me is the list in the back of 99-C-1 naming specific grades and their minimum descent time. These included: Newton to Pottsville 10.8 miles 39 minutes Clearfield Branch, Summit to Vail 9.8 miles 43 minutes AR to Slope 11.1 miles 38 minutes AR to Wye 16.4 miles 62 minutes Keating Summit Grade 5 miles 20 minutes Kane to Wilcox 8.6 miles 28 minutes North Madison to Madison 1.36 miles 7 minutes Unsurprisingly, the Madison Incline is the only one of these notorious grades in Western Region. Incidentally, my local division of the NMRA will be making a field trip to Madison IN on Saturday May 13. By then, the trees, the flowering plants, and the snake population in the woods around this picturesque river town should be in full bloom. We expect to visit the grade and the station restoration; I'm sure I'll find gone all the 1893 Weir Frog switchwork that survived into the 1970's. Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241-1625 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LOW RATE, NO WAIT! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Learn more at: http://click.egroups.com/1/937/4/_/586931/_/954628166/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 17:33:59 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Convention -- Added Event From: Jerry Britton Just got off the phone with the organizers of this year's PRRT&HS convention. Exciting news! Early on the planners had hoped to arrange a special run of the Liberty Limited Dinner Train, which runs out of New Freedom to just south of York on the former Northern Central Branch. Those plans fizzled out until just this week. In an unprecendented showing of cooperation, the following has been arranged: A special Liberty Limited will run on Sunday following the convention. It will pick passengers up at a makeshift station in New Cumberland on the York Haven Line (NS territory). This site was chosen as it keeps the train out of Enola. The Rockville Bridge was out of the question due to all the interlocking requirements. Anyway, NS agreed to do this as there is very little traffic on the York Haven line on Sundays. The train will go south on the York Haven Line and bear south at Wago Junction onto the former Northern Central Line. At downtown York, the train will continue on the NCRy trackage, now owned by the Maryland & Pennsylvania RR. Continuing on NCRy trackage now the regular route of the Dinner Train, the excursion will continue to New Freedom. Passengers will disembark for about an hour to enjoy the recently restored station before reboarding to head back north. Unfortunately, the only PRR car in the consist is the Catulpa Falls. How reservations for this excursion are going to be handled has not yet been resolved. There should be no problem accomodating everyone, as there will be no meal served on board. Exciting news indeed!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:33:29 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Subject: [PRR] Re: RF & P Interface [PRR] "cwhary" wrote on 3/29/00 2:07 pm: >Was there a working interface between the PRR >and the RF & P? If so what >level of involvement existed? Sure! Potomac Yard, the very northern end of the RF & P. Parts of the yard were electrified so that the PRR freight motors could run into the yard. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 21:20:31 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Atglen and Susquehanna Line From: "Richards" Hello all. I am interested in modeling the Atglen and Susquehanna freight line and would like to know what resources there are out there. I'd love to find photos or drawings of Smith Tower and any books or articles or track plans related to the Low Grade Line. I'm modeling in O scale and my interest is in heavy electrics. Thanks in advance, Thomas Richards Cambridge, MA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:04:20 -0500 From: Jeff Knorek Subject: [PRR] Re: RF & P Interface [PRR] Dennis Rockwell wrote in reply to charlie: (Charlie) >> Was there a working interface between the PRR >> and the RF & P? If so what >> level of involvement existed? > Sure! Potomac Yard, the very northern end of the RF & P. Parts of the yard were electrified so that the PRR freight motors could run into the yard. My friend George Paine replied to Charlie's question at some length. He writes: RF&P was jointly owned by ACL and SAL (on the south), C&O (on both ends) and B&O and PRR (on the north). as such it operated as a neutral bridge road and endeavoured to provide the same level of service to all owners. keeping that diverse lot happy was probably quite a headache from time to time. (Charlie) > I model the PRR and I particularly like the passenger side of > trains. The time frame I model is 1930 to 50 primarly steam. I > recently have been looking at some steam engine models that RF & P > used and was wondering if they would be within my PRR scheme of > things. > power was always changed at Washington; RF&P steam (later diesel) for PRR steam (later electric). in history it's always easy to say "usually" but hard to say either "never" or "always", but I'm unaware of any exceptions to this. so to fit your RF&P locomotive in, all you need to do is include Washington Terminal (and perhaps the Ivy City roundhouse). in steam days power was always changed at Richmond, but after dieselisation and the introduction of lightweight passenger cars, some (but not all) ACL and SCL units would run through to Washington (and, conversely, some RF&P units would show up in Florida). so if you run to diesels you can put some small number of white, and of purple, units into Ivy City. I remember seeing them there in the days before Amtrak. > > What color was there Heavy Weight passenger cars painted? > the heavyweights were Pullman green. RF&P participated in the through service to Florida so its cars ran all the way through. local service on the RF&P never amounted to much; they had a few HW coaches for a commuter service that expired right after WW II (precursor to the Fredericksburg line of today's Virginia Railway Express). RF&P also had a heavyweight business car, marked "ONE" (not "1"). after the war, RF&P had quite a few lightweight cars, which went to Amtrak, along with all but two (or 4?) of the E8 passenger diesels (there are either 1 or 2 each preserved in Roanoke and Richmond). although the RF&P was nominally independent and neutrally operated, it worked closely with its connecting lines for service planning, schedules, passenger equipment, etc.. this also extended to freight service, where the handoffs were at Acca Yard in Richmond and Potomac Yard in Alexandria. RF&P freights were handled by their own units - no runthroughs as for passenger trains. the PRR ran its electrification along the RF&P from the junction at RO down to the north end of Potomac Yard, where GG1, E33 and E44 locomotives took over from RF&P diesels. on a passenger note: this is where troop trains were handed off, not Union Station). the B&O had trackage rights over the PRR freight line (Benning to RO) and RF&P (RO into Potomac Yard), so you can include B&O operations, but AFAICT the B&O did not participate in the Florida service; for them Washington was the place where trains from Jersey City (and after ~1957, Baltimore) turned west. to this day Acca is an important node in the current CSX network but Pot Yard is gone - the land under the yard was worth too much to allow the rail operation to remain. but that's another story, for another time. RF&P had charter protection, under which no other railroad could be built in VA from Richmond to Washington (although the C&O had a roundabout route through Orange, Gordonsville and Doswell, it never amounted to much). this was another reason it had to work so well with its connections. > > So in closing I think if I had a RF & P train on my layout it would > fit in. Thanx again for your help. Your a gold mine of information. This was exactly > what I was hoping to find out with my posting. I beleve this would > add a nice change to my layout. Pullman green passenger train will > help break up the tuscan red trains I have. Thanx again. > oops. I need to be a bit more specific here. PRR had thru Pullmans connecting at Washington to C&O and SOU, and also to RF&P thence ACL and SAL. but an all-green RF&P coach consist, and its attendant motive power, wouldn't have made it past Washington (or, to be precise, the coach yards and engine terminal, respectively). and sorry for omitting Southern Railway from the list of Washington connections. there were, however, solid trains hauled by PRR, but my only knowledge of them would be from reconstructing service through old timetables or copies of the Official Guide - and my collection of OGs goes only back to the mid 1950s (~1956). IIRC it was their practice to combine several of these inbound trains and/or thru cars and them haul them on to New York in a combined movement, so you might see a mix of sleepers, lounges and diners from a variety of PRR's southern connections in one train - other movements would be your usual generic PRR train. the precise details would vary with the year, and season, as the arrangements tended to fluctuate to some extent. just to make things interesting there were also through movements from the other end - trains like the Federal which started in Boston on the NH and then switched over to the PRR at Penn Station New York. and if you turn back the clock far enough, there were also through cars to other points in New England, and eastern Canada. and here's another complexity. the head-end business, consisting of RPOs, REA and other express traffic, had its own highly complex set of through runs. often there were through cars of this kind of traffic on runs where no through passenger cars operated. for an interesting glimpse at how this worked just at the end, in the last few years before Amtrak, see Fred Fraley's excellent book "Twilight of the Great Trains" (Kalmbach, 1998). alas, the work he did on reconstructing service patterns for head end traffic is much harder to replicate, as these were less well documented in public sources like timetables or the Guide. he has an excellent example of the PRR haulage service, which if you can forgive me I'll quote here at some length: "However, the east-west lines paled beside Pennsy's north-south passenger line between New York City and Washington, what we know today as the Northeast Corridor. These 226.6 high-speed, electrified miles were unique to American railroading, combining a high volume of freight trains with an even higher volume of suburban, corridor and long-distance passenger trains in not just the colors of Pennsylvania Railroad but also those of New Haven, Southern, Chesapeake & Ohio, Atlantic Coast Line, Seaboard Air Line and Richmond Fredericksburg & Potomac. (p.177) "... you cannot help but be drawn to the era. If you close your eyes, you can almost imagine the summer of 1960. It's 1:45 am. On one of those through tracks beneath cavernous Washington Union Station, RF&P has just brought the "Havana Special" in from Miami, and Southern Railway its "Piedmont Limited" from New Orleans. From these trains and other equipment, a Washington Terminal RS1 switcher concocts a remarkable train, in this order: an Atlantic Coast Line heavyweight baggage car, a Pennsy P70 heavyweight coach and three ACL lightweight coaches, trailed by ten New York City-bound sleepers -- two out of Florida on the "Havana Special", one from Richmond, three off the "Piedmont" from New Orleans and points south of Washington and four of Pennsy's sleepers added at Washington. A car inspector hands the airbrake clearance to the engineer on the forward of the two GG1 electric locomotives. Presently train 108 will head North. "A mile away, Dwight Eisenhower sleeps in the White House. But here off North Capitol Street, the half-century-old station never rests. The combined southbound "Havana Special-Piedmont" is being separated on adjacent tracks. C&O's northbound "F.F.V." is due at 3 o'clock and Southern's "Crescent Limited" at 3:10, to be combined and leave town with 15 sleepers, a Southern diner and two coaches. Then will come the first of three southbound mail trains and, before long, the dawn of another day. That day would later see the leaving of the "Afternoon Congressional", still the finest day train in America. Its eight-year-old equipment will include six coach-lounges, a twin-unit diner and kitchen-bar-lounge and six parlor cars, one of them a blunt-end observation car." (p. 179) this ought to give you something to work with ... out of curiosity, are you going with GG1s, full catenary and EMUs? am not myself into modeling, but it does seem to me that it would be a considerable challenge to include that aspect of the physical plant. the above is not completely correct. I do have a model, but it's digital rather than tangiible, and attempts to represent current operations in the Mid-Atlantic area - see http://www.pacerfarm.org/wta.htm and at ~575 trains for six operators over ~4,100 route miles it wouldn't fit into the house even if we did have a basement. cheers. G. T. Paine Washington Grove Pacer Farm Washington Grove, MD MP 20.5 on the CSX (former B&O) Metropolitan Subdivision george@pacerfarm.org http://www.pacerfarm.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:45:21 -0500 From: Jeff Knorek Subject: Re: [PRR] flatcars Greetings- I have a photograph of one of these cars at: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/Found/FortWayne.htm Probably because I am a trucker, I call them Lowboys. If anybody can set me straight on what they were called by the railroad, or has any interesting information to add about them, I'd be most grateful. Jeff Knorek jknorek@msen.com bubbles@visi.net wrote: > Hello All... > > A while back someone asked for info on the PRR's depressed center > six wheeled truck flat cars. I had remembered that Railworks > had some brass cars in HO scale,but this modeler was building in > S scale. i deleted my e-mail and lost the address. > > To who ever it was there are pictures of one of these cars > and other Pennsy flats in Railworks ad in the February issue > of Model Railroad Craftsman. This is on page 105. > > Til Later ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: RF & P Interface [PRR] Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 23:06:34 -0500 Thanks to everyone that contributed to this disertation on the RF&P. This is the most comprehensive and interesting thread of PRR history on this group in a long time. Thanks again! Lew Matt -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Knorek To: Dennis Rockwell ; PRR Talk ; Conrail-Talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, April 01, 2000 10:08 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: RF & P Interface [PRR] > > >Dennis Rockwell wrote in reply to charlie: > >(Charlie) >>> Was there a working interface between the PRR >>> and the RF & P? If so what >>> level of involvement existed? > >> Sure! Potomac Yard, the very northern end of the RF & P. Parts of the yard were electrified so that the PRR freight motors could run into the yard. > >My friend George Paine replied to Charlie's question at some length. He writes: > >RF&P was jointly owned by ACL and SAL (on the south), C&O (on both >ends) and B&O and PRR (on the north). as such it operated as a >neutral bridge road and endeavoured to provide the same level of >service to all owners. keeping that diverse lot happy was probably >quite a headache from time to time. > > >(Charlie) >> I model the PRR and I particularly like the passenger side of >> trains. The time frame I model is 1930 to 50 primarly steam. I >> recently have been looking at some steam engine models that RF & P >> used and was wondering if they would be within my PRR scheme of >> things. >> > > power was always changed at Washington; RF&P steam (later diesel) >for PRR steam (later electric). in history it's always easy to say >"usually" but hard to say either "never" or "always", but I'm >unaware of any exceptions to this. so to fit your RF&P locomotive in, >all you need to do is include Washington Terminal (and perhaps the Ivy >City roundhouse). in steam days power was always changed at Richmond, >but after dieselisation and the introduction of lightweight passenger >cars, some (but not all) ACL and SCL units would run through to >Washington (and, conversely, some RF&P units would show up in >Florida). so if you run to diesels you can put some small number of >white, and of purple, units into Ivy City. I remember seeing them >there in the days before Amtrak. > > >> >> What color was there Heavy Weight passenger cars painted? >> > > the heavyweights were Pullman green. RF&P participated in the >through service to Florida so its cars ran all the way through. local >service on the RF&P never amounted to much; they had a few HW coaches >for a commuter service that expired right after WW II (precursor to the >Fredericksburg line of today's Virginia Railway Express). RF&P also >had a heavyweight business car, marked "ONE" (not "1"). after the war, >RF&P had quite a few lightweight cars, which went to Amtrak, along >with all but two (or 4?) of the E8 passenger diesels (there are either >1 or 2 each preserved in Roanoke and Richmond). > > although the RF&P was nominally independent and neutrally >operated, it worked closely with its connecting lines for service >planning, schedules, passenger equipment, etc.. this also extended to >freight service, where the handoffs were at Acca Yard in Richmond and >Potomac Yard in Alexandria. RF&P freights were handled by their own >units - no runthroughs as for passenger trains. the PRR ran its >electrification along the RF&P from the junction at RO down to the >north end of Potomac Yard, where GG1, E33 and E44 locomotives took >over from RF&P diesels. on a passenger note: this is where troop >trains were handed off, not Union Station). the B&O had trackage >rights over the PRR freight line (Benning to RO) and RF&P (RO into >Potomac Yard), so you can include B&O operations, but AFAICT the B&O >did not participate in the Florida service; for them Washington was >the place where trains from Jersey City (and after ~1957, Baltimore) >turned west. to this day Acca is an important node in the current CSX >network but Pot Yard is gone - the land under the yard was worth too >much to allow the rail operation to remain. but that's another story, >for another time. > > > RF&P had charter protection, under which no other railroad could be >built in VA from Richmond to Washington (although the C&O had a >roundabout route through Orange, Gordonsville and Doswell, it never >amounted to much). this was another reason it had to work so well with >its connections. > >> >> So in closing I think if I had a RF & P train on my layout it would >> fit in. Thanx again for your help. Your a gold mine of information. This was exactly >> what I was hoping to find out with my posting. I beleve this would >> add a nice change to my layout. Pullman green passenger train will >> help break up the tuscan red trains I have. Thanx again. >> > > oops. I need to be a bit more specific here. PRR had thru >Pullmans connecting at Washington to C&O and SOU, and also to >RF&P thence ACL and SAL. but an all-green RF&P coach consist, and >its attendant motive power, wouldn't have made it past Washington >(or, to be precise, the coach yards and engine terminal, >respectively). and sorry for omitting Southern Railway from the >list of Washington connections. > > there were, however, solid trains hauled by PRR, but my only >knowledge of them would be from reconstructing service through old >timetables or copies of the Official Guide - and my collection of >OGs goes only back to the mid 1950s (~1956). IIRC it was their >practice to combine several of these inbound trains and/or thru >cars and them haul them on to New York in a combined movement, so >you might see a mix of sleepers, lounges and diners from a variety >of PRR's southern connections in one train - other movements would be >your usual generic PRR train. the precise details would vary with the >year, and season, as the arrangements tended to fluctuate to some >extent. > > just to make things interesting there were also through movements >from the other end - trains like the Federal which started in Boston >on the NH and then switched over to the PRR at Penn Station New York. >and if you turn back the clock far enough, there were also through >cars to other points in New England, and eastern Canada. > > and here's another complexity. the head-end business, consisting >of RPOs, REA and other express traffic, had its own highly complex >set of through runs. often there were through cars of this kind of >traffic on runs where no through passenger cars operated. for an >interesting glimpse at how this worked just at the end, in the last >few years before Amtrak, see Fred Fraley's excellent book "Twilight >of the Great Trains" (Kalmbach, 1998). alas, the work he did on >reconstructing service patterns for head end traffic is much harder >to replicate, as these were less well documented in public sources >like timetables or the Guide. he has an excellent example of the >PRR haulage service, which if you can forgive me I'll quote here at >some length: > > "However, the east-west lines paled beside Pennsy's north-south > passenger line between New York City and Washington, what we know > today as the Northeast Corridor. These 226.6 high-speed, > electrified miles were unique to American railroading, combining > a high volume of freight trains with an even higher volume of > suburban, corridor and long-distance passenger trains in not just > the colors of Pennsylvania Railroad but also those of New Haven, > Southern, Chesapeake & Ohio, Atlantic Coast Line, Seaboard Air > Line and Richmond Fredericksburg & Potomac. > >(p.177) > > > "... you cannot help but be drawn to the era. If you close your > eyes, you can almost imagine the summer of 1960. It's 1:45 am. > On one of those through tracks beneath cavernous Washington Union > Station, RF&P has just brought the "Havana Special" in from > Miami, and Southern Railway its "Piedmont Limited" from New > Orleans. From these trains and other equipment, a Washington > Terminal RS1 switcher concocts a remarkable train, in this > order: an Atlantic Coast Line heavyweight baggage car, a Pennsy > P70 heavyweight coach and three ACL lightweight coaches, trailed > by ten New York City-bound sleepers -- two out of Florida on the > "Havana Special", one from Richmond, three off the "Piedmont" > from New Orleans and points south of Washington and four of > Pennsy's sleepers added at Washington. A car inspector hands the > airbrake clearance to the engineer on the forward of the two > GG1 electric locomotives. Presently train 108 will head North. > > "A mile away, Dwight Eisenhower sleeps in the White House. But > here off North Capitol Street, the half-century-old station > never rests. The combined southbound "Havana Special-Piedmont" > is being separated on adjacent tracks. C&O's northbound "F.F.V." > is due at 3 o'clock and Southern's "Crescent Limited" at 3:10, to > be combined and leave town with 15 sleepers, a Southern diner and > two coaches. Then will come the first of three southbound mail > trains and, before long, the dawn of another day. That day would > later see the leaving of the "Afternoon Congressional", still the > finest day train in America. Its eight-year-old equipment will > include six coach-lounges, a twin-unit diner and kitchen-bar-lounge > and six parlor cars, one of them a blunt-end observation car." > >(p. 179) > > > this ought to give you something to work with ... out of >curiosity, are you going with GG1s, full catenary and EMUs? am >not myself into modeling, but it does seem to me that it would be >a considerable challenge to include that aspect of the physical >plant. > > the above is not completely correct. I do have a model, but it's >digital rather than tangiible, and attempts to represent current >operations in the Mid-Atlantic area - see > > http://www.pacerfarm.org/wta.htm > >and at ~575 trains for six operators over ~4,100 route miles it >wouldn't fit into the house even if we did have a basement. > >cheers. > >G. T. Paine >Washington Grove Pacer Farm >Washington Grove, MD >MP 20.5 on the CSX (former B&O) Metropolitan Subdivision > george@pacerfarm.org > http://www.pacerfarm.org > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 14:49:44 +1000 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: [PRR] Altoona and The Curve --=====_95465098441=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I'm working on a new section of my web site= (http://keystone.alphalink.com.au ) and would like to include an expanded section on Horseshoe Curve and= Altoona yard/shops. I am therefore unashamedly soliciting for information to add to what I= have. I'm looking for pictures (with permission to reproduce them on the website)= of action on the curve, around Altoona Yard, and anything I can get on the shops. I have a short section on The Curve up now, but feel that the area needs= more to do it full justice. As you can imagine information regarding the Pennsy is a little scarce in= this part of the world, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers all, Pennsy (Mick) Australia's No:1 SPF Happy Rails --=====_95465098441=_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

Hi all,

I'm working on a new section of my web site (http://keystone.alphalink.com.au )

and would like to include an expanded section on Horseshoe Curve and Altoona yard/shops.

I am therefore unashamedly soliciting for information to add to what I have.

I'm looking for pictures (with permission to reproduce them on the website) of action on the curve,

around Altoona Yard, and anything I can get on the shops.

I have a short section on The Curve up now, but feel that the area needs more to do it full justice.

As you can imagine information regarding the Pennsy is a little scarce in this part of the world, so

any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers all,

Pennsy (Mick)

Australia's No:1 SPF

Happy Rails

--=====_95465098441=_-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jason Myers" Subject: [PRR] Webpage updated Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 04:06:53 -0500 Hi everyone Ive update my webpage htpp://jasonstrainpics.homestead.com Jason Myers St Elmo Illinois CP 158 CSX STL line ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:35:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention -- Added Event -- APRIL FOOL's From: Jerry Britton Geez! The following post that I made last evening was supposed to be this year's April Fool's gig, but either everyone was off-line or it sounded too plausible. Nobody made mention of it!!! Lots of folks anticipate something to happen each year, but this makes two sleeper years in a row! No, there is no excursion as described. Until next year... On 4/1/00 5:33 PM, Jerry Britton at (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > Just got off the phone with the organizers of this year's PRRT&HS > convention. Exciting news! > > Early on the planners had hoped to arrange a special run of the Liberty > Limited Dinner Train, which runs out of New Freedom to just south of York on > the former Northern Central Branch. Those plans fizzled out until just this > week. > > In an unprecendented showing of cooperation, the following has been > arranged: > > A special Liberty Limited will run on Sunday following the convention. It > will pick passengers up at a makeshift station in New Cumberland on the York > Haven Line (NS territory). This site was chosen as it keeps the train out of > Enola. The Rockville Bridge was out of the question due to all the > interlocking requirements. Anyway, NS agreed to do this as there is very > little traffic on the York Haven line on Sundays. > > The train will go south on the York Haven Line and bear south at Wago > Junction onto the former Northern Central Line. At downtown York, the train > will continue on the NCRy trackage, now owned by the Maryland & Pennsylvania > RR. Continuing on NCRy trackage now the regular route of the Dinner Train, > the excursion will continue to New Freedom. > > Passengers will disembark for about an hour to enjoy the recently restored > station before reboarding to head back north. > > Unfortunately, the only PRR car in the consist is the Catulpa Falls. > > How reservations for this excursion are going to be handled has not yet been > resolved. There should be no problem accomodating everyone, as there will be > no meal served on board. > > Exciting news indeed!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S HOBBIES" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention -- Added Event -- APRIL FOOL's Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 11:41:02 -0400 You got me Jerry.....I was sorry I would not be able to take advantage and was envious!!!! Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 (732) 271-0800 Voice (732) 271-0805 Fax ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention -- Added Event -- APRIL FOOL's > Geez! The following post that I made last evening was supposed to be this > year's April Fool's gig, but either everyone was off-line or it sounded too > plausible. Nobody made mention of it!!! > > Lots of folks anticipate something to happen each year, but this makes two > sleeper years in a row! > > No, there is no excursion as described. Until next year... > > On 4/1/00 5:33 PM, Jerry Britton at (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > > > Just got off the phone with the organizers of this year's PRRT&HS > > convention. Exciting news! > > > > Early on the planners had hoped to arrange a special run of the Liberty > > Limited Dinner Train, which runs out of New Freedom to just south of York on > > the former Northern Central Branch. Those plans fizzled out until just this > > week. > > > > In an unprecendented showing of cooperation, the following has been > > arranged: > > > > A special Liberty Limited will run on Sunday following the convention. It > > will pick passengers up at a makeshift station in New Cumberland on the York > > Haven Line (NS territory). This site was chosen as it keeps the train out of > > Enola. The Rockville Bridge was out of the question due to all the > > interlocking requirements. Anyway, NS agreed to do this as there is very > > little traffic on the York Haven line on Sundays. > > > > The train will go south on the York Haven Line and bear south at Wago > > Junction onto the former Northern Central Line. At downtown York, the train > > will continue on the NCRy trackage, now owned by the Maryland & Pennsylvania > > RR. Continuing on NCRy trackage now the regular route of the Dinner Train, > > the excursion will continue to New Freedom. > > > > Passengers will disembark for about an hour to enjoy the recently restored > > station before reboarding to head back north. > > > > Unfortunately, the only PRR car in the consist is the Catulpa Falls. > > > > How reservations for this excursion are going to be handled has not yet been > > resolved. There should be no problem accomodating everyone, as there will be > > no meal served on board. > > > > Exciting news indeed!!! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "boxcar46" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention -- Added Event -- APRIL FOOL's Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 22:09:10 -0400 Jerry, I was trying to figure out how many days it was going to take to back that train from New Freedom to New Cumberland, under the running in reverse rules!!!! Plus how they talked the Emonds Group into letting them across there Ma&Pa. rails..... I thought it was a spoof, but forgot it was April 1st.....(da !) ...I have other things on my mind at the time.....I'll be notifying my company of 38 yrs that I will retire in two weeks, to peruse a new career....... Bill Knepper PRRT&HS # 1818 Northern Central Chapter (boxcar46@nfdc.net) End of the NCR tracks, New Freedom, Pa. Check out the Station......Oh , Jerry cast station signs will be made for the New Freedom station. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk Date: Sunday, April 02, 2000 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention -- Added Event -- APRIL FOOL's >Geez! The following post that I made last evening was supposed to be this >year's April Fool's gig, but either everyone was off-line or it sounded too >plausible. Nobody made mention of it!!! > >Lots of folks anticipate something to happen each year, but this makes two >sleeper years in a row! > >No, there is no excursion as described. Until next year... > >On 4/1/00 5:33 PM, Jerry Britton at (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > >> Just got off the phone with the organizers of this year's PRRT&HS >> convention. Exciting news! >> >> Early on the planners had hoped to arrange a special run of the Liberty >> Limited Dinner Train, which runs out of New Freedom to just south of York on >> the former Northern Central Branch. Those plans fizzled out until just this >> week. >> >> In an unprecendented showing of cooperation, the following has been >> arranged: >> >> A special Liberty Limited will run on Sunday following the convention. It >> will pick passengers up at a makeshift station in New Cumberland on the York >> Haven Line (NS territory). This site was chosen as it keeps the train out of >> Enola. The Rockville Bridge was out of the question due to all the >> interlocking requirements. Anyway, NS agreed to do this as there is very >> little traffic on the York Haven line on Sundays. >> >> The train will go south on the York Haven Line and bear south at Wago >> Junction onto the former Northern Central Line. At downtown York, the train >> will continue on the NCRy trackage, now owned by the Maryland & Pennsylvania >> RR. Continuing on NCRy trackage now the regular route of the Dinner Train, >> the excursion will continue to New Freedom. >> >> Passengers will disembark for about an hour to enjoy the recently restored >> station before reboarding to head back north. >> >> Unfortunately, the only PRR car in the consist is the Catulpa Falls. >> >> How reservations for this excursion are going to be handled has not yet been >> resolved. There should be no problem accomodating everyone, as there will be >> no meal served on board. >> >> Exciting news indeed!!! > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > >"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of >Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana >products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", >the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- >Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are >providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit >our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 22:49:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Atglen and Susquehanna Line On Sat, 1 Apr 2000, Richards wrote: > Hello all. I am interested in modeling the Atglen and Susquehanna freight > line and would like to know what resources there are out there. I'd love to > find photos or drawings of Smith Tower and any books or articles or track > plans related to the Low Grade Line. I'm modeling in O scale and my > interest is in heavy electrics. oddly yesterday i saw a picture of smith tower in a book, probably "from bullets to bart" by william d middleton. -d ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: [PRR] Harrison St. Interlocking Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 22:40:24 -0500 Today, I purchased an interlocking drawing of the South side of Chicago Union Station. It is on a Chicago Union Station Co. title block. Not only is it an intelocking diagram, it also is a scale drawing of 1"=50'. It goes from just south of Roosevelt road to the concourse, so the platform tracks are shown in their entirety. The drawing has an original issue date of 3/15/33, and the latest revision is 8/66. The drawing is about 50" long and 12" high. On Mark Bej's web site, he asks for specific documentation of where CUS trackage begins, and PRR ends. This drawing shows the line directly under the Roosevelt Road bridge. I also have a Chicago Division track chart, and it shows the break point in the same place. Anyway, I have this drawing scanned in and ready to go if anybody would like a copy. Maybe Mark's web page would be the best place for it, so I'll also offer it there. Due to scanner size, I had to scan it in in 5 pieces. Unfortunately, the drawing does not show the Polk Street freight house or the PRR coach yards. If anybody has a drawing showing these areas, I would like to get a copy (Either a scan or I'll pay for duplication) Thanks, Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: [PRR] 21st St. Interlocking Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 23:07:20 -0500 I've often seen the massive diamond to the south of the South Branch Lift Bridge commonly referred to as "21st St. Interlocking". However, today I saw a photograph of a K4 pulling several P-70s running south out of the bridge. The picture is taken much farther to the south than others I've seen, and in the right side of the photo there is the corner of a building. On this building, there is a sign of the familiar PRR type, the kind with the keystone in the center. On this sign is the lettering "22nd Street". The whole building cannot be seen, but could this be the interlocking tower? And if so, was it officially known as "22nd Street"? I found this interesting. I didn't buy the photo. It was in a bad frame and overpriced, but maybe I should have bought it. Just after I typed the above, I went and got an employee timetable I have, and it also refers to this tower as 22nd Street. I remember recently a discussion of interlocking vs: interlocking station vs: block station. Going from south to north, the ETT lists stations ...40th St(463.8), 22nd St(466.0), Alton Jct(466.2), South Branch Bridge(466.2),... All but 22nd st are interlockings and interlocking stations. South Branch Bridge is also a block station. 22nd st is listed as none. What does this mean? The ETT I'm referring to is 10/29/67. So I guess this interlocking is officially 22nd St. Any other comments? Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] X-58 box cars From: Fred G Rea Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 00:07:50 EDT Are there any decent kits for the PRR X-58 box cars? Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] FW: Question about PRR Line Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 00:00:15 -0400 Hi all, Can anyone help Margaret out? Thanks, Rob -----Original Message----- From: Margaret McElliott [mailto:mmcelliott@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 11:50 AM To: robs@railfan.net Subject: Question about PRR Line Hi Are you aware of a site on the PRR line called: Rattigan's Gap? Probably in Cambria County? Thanks Margaret McElliott ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] Convention -- Added Event -- APRIL FOOL's Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 23:11:16 -0500 -----Original Message----- Lots of folks anticipate something to happen each year, but this makes two sleeper years in a row! I don't know about that. Last year, the Rat gig got me pretty good. I was trying to figure out how a GG-1 truck could be used before I figured it out. Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 00:10:36 -0500 From: bobp@tsc.com (Bob Poortinga) Subject: Re: [PRR] 21st St. Interlocking "Andy Cich" writes: > I've often seen the massive diamond to the south of the South Branch Lift > Bridge commonly referred to as "21st St. Interlocking". However, today I > saw a photograph of a K4 pulling several P-70s running south out of the > bridge. The picture is taken much farther to the south than others I've > seen, and in the right side of the photo there is the corner of a building. > On this building, there is a sign of the familiar PRR type, the kind with > the keystone in the center. On this sign is the lettering "22nd Street". > > The whole building cannot be seen, but could this be the interlocking tower? No. 21st Interlocking is known as Alton Jct in PRR/PC/Conrail parlance. > Just after I typed the above, I went and got an employee timetable I have, > and it also refers to this tower as 22nd Street. I remember recently a > discussion of interlocking vs: interlocking station vs: block station. > Going from south to north, the ETT lists stations ...40th St(463.8), 22nd > St(466.0), Alton Jct(466.2), South Branch Bridge(466.2),... All but 22nd st > are interlockings and interlocking stations. South Branch Bridge is also a > block station. 22nd st is listed as none. What does this mean? The ETT > I'm referring to is 10/29/67. As far as I know, 22nd St was simply a timetable location for the turnout for No. 4 track (from No. 1 track). Deliveries for 55th St. yard went south (timetable east) from CUS through South Branch, Alton Jct. (21st St), and onto No. 4 track at 22nd St. which was a secondary track of no assigned direction. -- Bob Poortinga (mailto:bobp@tsc.com) Technology Service Corp. Bloomington, Indiana USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] More pictures on website plus a couple of questions Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 07:18:32 +0100 Some more pictures are on the website: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/prr_pics/contents.htm An F unit in DGLE / A U28c (black?) / The curve with a Centipede and a J1 pushing tender first / Two pics of the Boston street tractors. Two questions: 1) Is the F unit an F7? The re-numbering has got me confused (not very difficult :-) 2) At the risk of bringing up the old DGLE issue again. To me the picture of the U28c shows a black livery applied ...... in fact it looks as black as it ever gets ..... compare with the F unit. Were the later PRR diesels painted black? If not, anybody know what's going on here? Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] More pictures on website plus a couple of questions Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 05:56:56 -0700 John, list, > 1) Is the F unit an F7? The re-numbering has got me confused (not very difficult :-) The F unit is an FP7. The spotting feature is the extra tank forward of the fuel tank - it's an easier visual cue than trying to spot the extra length, which isn't as apparent unless the locomotive is seen next to an F3 or F7. > 2) At the risk of bringing up the old DGLE issue again. To me the picture of the U28c shows a black livery applied ...... in fact it looks as black as it ever gets ..... compare with the F unit. Were the later PRR diesels painted black? If not, anybody know what's going on here? The U28C is definitely in DGLE. The FP7 appears more greenish due to the age of its paint job, whereas the U28C looks to be new or recently shopped. Black did not appear until after the merger. > Two pics of the Boston street tractors. Also, the street tractors are from Baltimore (Fells Point), not Boston. Regards, Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:48:37 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Street tractors. Was: More pictures... --- Benjamin Frank Hom wrote: > John, list, > Also, the street tractors are from Baltimore (Fells > Point), not Boston. > I had gotten the idea that similar tractors were used in Philadelphia also. Were there such? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Freight train make-up, etc. Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:58:55 -0700 Derrick and folks, Thanks for the reply(ies). I think you're right. Rich and others have responded that 16th St. was the Produce Terminal's designation. That makes sense, as there wasn't much going there but reefers. By process of elimination that would make 43rd the only remaining yard, and the AV the only remaining line. As many times as I've asked, and knowing that this information probably does not exist, I would still like to know what type of freight, how much, how often, what types of cars, what motive power, where destined, etc. This is a subject so infrequently discussed! There just HAS to be someone out there that can enlighten us.... By discussion with various people (and years of digging!), I understand that 30th St. was primarily interchange w/J&L (Mon Con), but would have also classified freight off the Whitehall and A&SS. This appears to be correct from photos. Thomson was classifier for URR interchange, and got lots of coil cars and auto parts boxes from IrvinWorks/Fisher Body up the hill. Shire Oaks was classifier for all the coal from MonRwy/PRR further upriver (Mon). Wilson Yard classified for Clairton Works, Connelly Yard for Duquesne Works, etc. The big three (Conway, Pitcairn, Scully) were for the mainline classification jobs. That would make 43rd the classifier for the Allegheny traffic/Conemaugh Div.(?). Too bad no one has more on this subject. For those of us modeling the area, it would make an interesting part of operations to have actual destinations/origins for our traffic. On this subject, has anyone seen the article done by Bob Malinoski in a Keystone (something about the Middle Division) that had a centerspread photo of a freight going W/B on the curve in 1965, and later in the article a computer consist of the same train? It is an absolutely fascinating portion of that article. It is one of the few places I have EVER seen actual info tacked on to actual photo documentation. Several of the first boxcars in the train were hauling sheet steel or tinplate. Is anyone modeling this operation? Elden -----Original Message----- From: Derrick J Brashear [mailto:shadow@dementia.org] Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 3:59 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight train make-up, etc. > Hi all, I have been talking with Al Buchan off-line on this subject, and > have exhausted our collective knowledge on this subject/area. Maybe some of > you can add a great deal to our knowledge base. > Does anyone know the 1) frequency of occurrence, 2) train make-up (avg > # of cars, motive power, type of freight, customer destinations, etc.), 3) > routing, and any other interesting info, on the following freight trains: > PT5 Pitcairn to Pgh 30th St. > PT61 Pitcairn to Pgh 16th St. (where IS 16th St.?) I would assume 16th would be in the Strip District and > PT3 Pgh 30th St. to Pgh 43rd St. (where is 43rd St.???) 43rd would be in Lawrenceville... so my best guess would put both of these on AVRR... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 12:22:12 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] Street tractors. Was: More pictures... As a kid, I most definitely remember seeing rubber-tired motors along the water front in Philly. However, I don't remember if they were Pennsy or Reading units. Frank Brua robert netzlof wrote: > --- Benjamin Frank Hom wrote: > > John, list, > > > Also, the street tractors are from Baltimore (Fells > > Point), not Boston. > > > > I had gotten the idea that similar tractors were used > in Philadelphia also. Were there such? > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: Re: [PRR] Street tractors. Was: More pictures... Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:38:58 -0400 Hi all, I have a page on my site dedicated to these street tractors. I have about a dozen photos of them online. They're all either in Jersey City or Baltimore. Books say that they were used in Philly also but I haven't seen a photo... The page is at: http://prr.railfan.net/RubberTiredSwitchers.html I'm trying to gather more information on these critters. If you have any info that I can add to the page or photos that I can use, please e-mail! Did they have a PRR class? I'm especially interested in obtaining PRR drawings or diagrams for them.. Thanks! Rob -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof To: Benjamin Frank Hom ; John H. Wright Cc: PRR Talk Date: Monday, April 03, 2000 11:56 AM Subject: [PRR] Street tractors. Was: More pictures... >--- Benjamin Frank Hom wrote: >> John, list, > >> Also, the street tractors are from Baltimore (Fells >> Point), not Boston. >> > >I had gotten the idea that similar tractors were used >in Philadelphia also. Were there such? > >===== >Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 13:00:15 -0400 From: Mike Morrow Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch Hi everyone, You guys got me hooked on the Elmira Branch about 2 months ago and since then I have been aquiring as much info as I can (afford) on it. I've got Caloroso's book and the Northern Central book. Does anyone have an idea where I can get more photo's. I'm focusing on 1956-57 timeframe. Thanks Mike Morrow PRRT&HS #6703 Elmira Branch circa 1956-57 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 13:15:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Branch From: Jerry Britton On 4/3/00 1:00 PM, Mike Morrow (morrow4@bellatlantic.net) wrote: > You guys got me hooked on the Elmira Branch about 2 months ago and since > then I have been aquiring as much info as I can (afford) on it. I've got > Caloroso's book and the Northern Central book. Does anyone have an idea > where I can get more photo's. I'm focusing on 1956-57 timeframe. Thanks > The late John Keel sent me a couple of photos before he passed away. I'll see if I can get them uploaded this week. Do you have Gunnarson's book on the "History of the Northern Central Railway"? The Elmira Branch was its PRR name, but it was built and operated by the NCRy until the PRR lease in the 19-teens. This book has some good info and photos as well. I believe Randy Williamson just acquired some maps. Randy, if you care to send them to me for scanning I'll get them right back to you. (Yeah, right! No, actually, I am almost done with all of your other charts!) --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For Brass Enthusiasts (under development) http://www.brasstrains.net For Dealers and Manufacturers http://www.modelrailroadnews.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 13:24:19 -0400 From: Eric Lauterbach Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Russian? Last night I was watching a video on the Illinios Railway Museum that I bought when I was up there. They had a segment on their operational Frisco russain #1630. The narrator said this locomotive had an interesting history and was operated by the Pennsylvania Railroad and then the St. Louis and San Fran. Railroad. Does anyone know if this is true? I think it just might be a mistake, but I am very curious. Thanks, Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Russian? Eric, I can't speak for that particular Russian 2-10-0 as an x-PRR loco but in a back issue of the Keystone (question and answer section) someone asked if the Pennsy had these locos. The answer was yes! There were several used at Conway yards as trimmer engines (circa 1919?). Is this statement true?, I do not know. That Keystone issue is the only place I have ever seen that mentioned those 2-10-0's in Pennsy service.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] former PRR trackage Date: Mon, 3 Apr 100 13:45:20 -0400 (EDT) lew matt wrote: > > > > Hey guys: > > Check out this news article on CSX track work. > > http://www.msnbc.com/local/rtpa/4439.asp Andy Miller scribit: > > Sounds more like former RF&P (CSX, VRE, and Amtrak) and B&O (Amtrak > DC-Chicago)track. Actually, no. Former PRR. Article says: Two such wide areas were found in the District of Columbia on the line used by Amtrak, Virginia Railway Express and all north-south CSX freight trains. This describes perfectly the PRR combined trackage from VIRGINIA tower to the Long Bridge over the Potomac. At Virginia, the trackage split into the passenger line (NE, then N) and freight line (basically E). The passenger line quickly went from PRR to WUT (Washington Union Terminal) Co. ownership, whereas the other remained PRR its entire length. WUT owned through the station and to the north side of it, where B&O split off, then PRR owned again along New York Ave. (US 50). This passenger line and the freight line rejoined at LANDOVER tower. To complicate matters further, CSX (and predecessors) had trackage rights over the PRR freight line to a location near ANACOSTIA tower (between VIRGINIA and LANDOVER) where a B&O line peeled off and ultimately crossed over PRR to join the other B&O trackage. RF&P, to my knowledge, had no trackage in the state of Maryland. I have never quite figured out where all the property lines were. If someone could enlighten me (and the list), it would be most interesting I think. I am in possession of a WUT Co. ETT from 1978 which has maps in the back. There are dashed lines just north of the southbound home signals for VIRGINIA which may be a property line, but it is not specifically marked as such. On the other end, the property boundary between WUT and B&O and/or Amtrak is not marked at all. And I'd like to know where the property boundary was between PRR and RF&P. -- Mark D. Bej, M.D. bejm@eeg.ccf.org Section of Epilepsy & Sleep Disorders Section of Neurological Computing Department of Neurology Phone (216) 445-2565 Cleveland Clinic Foundation S-51 Operator (216) 444-2200 bpr 24095 9500 Euclid Ave. Fax (216) 445-6617 (public) Cleveland, Ohio 44195 U.S.A. Voice mail (216) 444-0119 (nonclinical only) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Branch Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:04:45 -0400 I've seen some video of the Elmira branch on some of the PRR commercial videos. Herron's Pennsy Glory 3 is one, if I remember right.l Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. WWII -----Original Message----- From: Mike Morrow To: PRR-Talk Date: Monday, April 03, 2000 1:03 PM Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch >Hi everyone, >You guys got me hooked on the Elmira Branch about 2 months ago and since >then I have been aquiring as much info as I can (afford) on it. I've got >Caloroso's book and the Northern Central book. Does anyone have an idea >where I can get more photo's. I'm focusing on 1956-57 timeframe. Thanks > >Mike Morrow >PRRT&HS #6703 >Elmira Branch circa 1956-57 > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:35:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: [PRR] PRR Cabin in Boston? Hi all, As I am far from my usual haunts, and streaming email on the "fly" I wanted to ask if anyone was aware of a Pennsy cabin car in Boston? Specifically, I saw what looked to be an N-5 in Conrail paint on blocks in an industrial area near the tunnel from Logan (West 1st between Aves D and E). Of course, this was on the fly from the shuttle van window...and I'm not terribly sure that I wnt to venture back into the neighborhood to try to get some photos, unless y'all can confirm that this is an N-5! Happy Rails, from Beantown Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:36:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Atglen and Susquehanna Line >Hello all. I am interested in modeling the Atglen and Susquehanna freight >line and would like to know what resources there are out there. I'd love to >find photos or drawings of Smith Tower and any books or articles or track >plans related to the Low Grade Line. I'm modeling in O scale and my >interest is in heavy electrics. > >Thanks in advance, > >Thomas Richards >Cambridge, MA Gee Thomas, If only I'd known! I am currently staying just acros the river at the Backbay Hilton! I am an avid fan of the A&S and could have brought some of my materials, as I am planning to model the area around Columbia including the A&S C&PD, Columbia branch etc. Will you be modeling the bridges at Safe Harbor? What is the extent of the branch that you intend to model? BTW, an excellent article on the A&S is available in a past issue of the Keystone (written by Fred Abendeschein) and I believe that Smith tower may be shown...although I'm working without a net here! Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 14:47:05 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Cabin in Boston? Next time I'm near the airport (and have the time) I'll have to check it out. The only PRR hardware I'm familiar with in Boston is a B60b in the Allston yard (visible from the turnpike) and the diner from the Senator, attached to a restaurant in Watertown. Unfortunatly its on the side of the building against another building and only the end is visible - and on this they glued a mock open platform!!!! How the mighty have fallen :-( Bruce F Smith wrote: > > Hi all, > > As I am far from my usual haunts, and streaming email on the "fly" I > wanted to ask if anyone was aware of a Pennsy cabin car in Boston? > > Specifically, I saw what looked to be an N-5 in Conrail paint on blocks in > an industrial area near the tunnel from Logan (West 1st between Aves D and > E). Of course, this was on the fly from the shuttle van window...and I'm > not terribly sure that I wnt to venture back into the neighborhood to try > to get some photos, unless y'all can confirm that this is an N-5! > > Happy Rails, from Beantown > Bruce > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] K4's in freight service Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:25:21 -0400 PRR Gize: Once in a great while, I come across pictures of K-4s hauling freight trains. I was wondering on how rare (or common) that this practice was. Was it more common in certan parts of the railroad than in other areas? Did it occur basically to balance power? The photos taken indicate to me that although it was rare, K-4's on frieght trains were common enough to be caught on film. Any thoughts? Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:40:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] K4's in freight service Ted, Good question. My answer, well more of a guess, is they used the K4 on freight trains when in a pinch for power. Possibly power moves also. As many here know, I collect PRR Photos. 3500+ or so now i my collection. I probably have about 700+ K4 photographs. Maybe more. I can recall on 1 photo, possibly 2 photos, K4s seen in freight service. I know one photo shows a double headed K4 on a reefer train. I believe the location was out in Indiana or Illinois. I think I have that picture scanned so I will return shortly with the url for all to see. I also recall seeing photos in books as well but can't think of any off hand.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] K4's in freight service Ted, List, That was easy. My photo of the Double Headed K4's is located on my 1st website listed below. It is on the first page and easily found. The photo was taken in Ill. in the 1930's....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:44:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] X-58 box cars Fred, Unfortunately not kit built cars are accurate enough for the X-58, they all require work. Years ago I did an article on the X-58, but the ends were wrong but a better choie than the Athearn car. I would change that and the roof is a problem, but not an easy fix either. Then there is the matter of the side ribs which need to be extended. If I were a betting man, I would say it is always going to be a major kitbash, but not beyonf the relm of good modeling. Greg Martin In a message dated Mon, 3 Apr 2000 Fred G Rea writes: << Are there any decent kits for the PRR X-58 box cars? Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] K4's in freight service Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:52:13 -0400 Gary: Thanks for the info. As a matter of fact, your picture prompted my question to begin with. I was looking at your web pages last week. There is another photo of a K-4 on a freight. It appeared in the Keystone in 1982-4. It was the James Lynch article on the Logansport Division. The K-4 was doubleheaded with consolidation northbound on the South Bend Branch in Plymouth, Indiana Ted -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 2:44 PM To: Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] K4's in freight service Ted, List, That was easy. My photo of the Double Headed K4's is located on my 1st website listed below. It is on the first page and easily found. The photo was taken in Ill. in the 1930's....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] K4's in freight service Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 16:26:57 -0400 This is only a guess based on practices by other railroads, but here goes. K-4's were used on milk trains, which were sort of freight/reefer trains. One of them, RJ-4, ran from Renovo to Jersey City, and east of Harrisburg made as good or better time than the Boradway, which had station stops. I have also seen passenger engines used for freight service when testing and breaking them in after a major shopping. They would often be used on freight locals. Not sure what PRR's practice was. I would also assume that on rare occasions there would be power shortages that would lead to the practice. Hopefully someone on the list knows for sure. I hate guessing, especially in front (cyberly speaking) of so many knowledgeable people! Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. WWII -----Original Message----- From: Andrews, Ted To: 'PRR-Talk' Date: Monday, April 03, 2000 3:25 PM Subject: [PRR] K4's in freight service >PRR Gize: > > >Once in a great while, I come across pictures of K-4s hauling freight >trains. I was wondering on how rare (or common) that this practice was. Was >it more common in certan parts of the railroad than in other areas? Did it >occur basically to balance power? > >The photos taken indicate to me that although it was rare, K-4's on frieght >trains were common enough to be caught on film. > >Any thoughts? > > >Ted Andrews >Carmel, Indiana > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:46:37 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] K4's in freight service In a message dated 4/3/00 2:33:11 PM Central Daylight Time, Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com writes: << Once in a great while, I come across pictures of K-4s hauling freight trains. I was wondering on how rare (or common) that this practice was. >> Funny you should ask. I was just reading the Autumn 99 issue of the Keystone article by former fireman/engineman John R. Ashmore on "Practical Steam Locomotive Firing (a truly fascinating and engrossing article, BTW) and he mentioned a freight doubleheader with L1s and K4s. The L1s was usually the lead engine on a freight, but in the incident he relates, the L1s stoker malfunctioned enroute so they switched the K4s to the lead. The freight was A5 from Greenville Yard (S. Jersey City) to Camden. The year was 1952. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:53:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] K4's in freight service In a message dated 4/3/00 2:33:11 PM Central Daylight Time, Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com writes: << I was wondering on how rare (or common) that this practice was. Was it more common in certan parts of the railroad than in other areas? >> Another incident just occured to me, but I need to search the dim recesses of my memory to find the documentation. I seem to recall that one of the fast freights out of Chicago which I believe either left Polk Street freighthouse (LCL?) or the through track at CUS (hot traffic from the West?)rather than 55th St. was occasionally assigned a K4. Maybe an excuse to pull some of those Merchandise Service cars with a K4 after all? Would love to see a photo which documented this. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 22:34:07 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Cabin in Boston? Bruce F Smith wrote: > Hi all, > As I am far from my usual haunts, and streaming email on the "fly" I > wanted to ask if anyone was aware of a Pennsy cabin car in Boston? could be. > Specifically, I saw what looked to be an N-5 in Conrail paint on blocks in > an industrial area near the tunnel from Logan (West 1st between Aves D and > E). Of course, this was on the fly from the shuttle van window...and I'm > not terribly sure that I wnt to venture back into the neighborhood to try > to get some photos, unless y'all can confirm that this is an N-5! I've taken the liberty of posting to the NERAIL list. We shall see what the collective wisdom is... Had it not been for the 'on blocks', I'd Assume it was something to do with big-dig spoil trains... best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Interesting sighting From: Fred G Rea Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 22:48:15 EDT I saw an interesting Ohio license plate today. PRR-GG1 ! I was following it on the East side of Columbus Ohio, in pouring rain and heavy traffic, no chance to say "Hi". Was it anyone on the list, or anybody know this person? Someone has a more than passing interest in our RR. Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:29:58 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: [CR] Re: RF & P Interface [PRR] From: Michael Allen Jeff et alia Some where in my references are several pictures of Florida-bound streamliners with ACL et c power at 30th Street MEA The following has been massivilly snipped: On Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:04:20 -0500 Jeff Knorek writes: > > > Dennis Rockwell wrote in reply to charlie: > > (Charlie) > >> Was there a working interface between the PRR > >> and the RF & P? If so what > >> level of involvement existed? > > > Sure! Potomac Yard, the very northern end of the RF & P. Parts > of the yard were electrified so that the PRR freight motors could > run into the yard. > > My friend George Paine replied to Charlie's question at some length. > He writes: > > > power was always changed at Washington; RF&P steam (later diesel) > for PRR steam (later electric). in history it's always easy to say > "usually" but hard to say either "never" or "always", but I'm > unaware of any exceptions to this. so to fit your RF&P locomotive > in, > all you need to do is include Washington Terminal (and perhaps the > Ivy > City roundhouse). in steam days power was always changed at > Richmond, but after dieselisation and the introduction of lightweight > passenger cars, some (but not all) ACL and SCL units would run through to > Washington (and, conversely, some RF&P units would show up in > Florida). so if you run to diesels you can put some small number of > white, and of purple, units into Ivy City. I remember seeing them > there in the days before Amtrak. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:52:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [CR] Re: RF & P Interface [PRR] Ball's book The PRR in the 40's and 50's shows ACL and RF&P E units at 30th St. when the g's were having te snow ingestion problems. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:09:56 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Atglen & Susquehanna / Main Line / Hobo's Guide From: Jerry Britton Two line histories have been added to the Hobo's Guide to the Pennsy: Main line from Washington thru Baltimore Atglen & Susquehanna Branch See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/guide/ Thanks to the contributors, and apologies for taking so long to post them! If anyone else wants to contribute, visit the above URL and pick a branch that's not on the list! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For Brass Enthusiasts (under development) http://www.brasstrains.net For Dealers and Manufacturers http://www.modelrailroadnews.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 14:15:36 -0400 Subject: [PRR] CT220's From: Jerry Britton Anyone have any CT220's -- passenger train consist reports? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For Brass Enthusiasts (under development) http://www.brasstrains.net For Dealers and Manufacturers http://www.modelrailroadnews.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 14:25:29 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Official Register of Passenger Equipment From: Jerry Britton Anyone have the 1954 edition of the Official Register of Passenger Equipment? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For Brass Enthusiasts (under development) http://www.brasstrains.net For Dealers and Manufacturers http://www.modelrailroadnews.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:48:53 -0400 From: davep Subject: [Fwd: RE: [NERAIL] [Fwd: [PRR] PRR Cabin in Boston?]] Colleagues: Confirmed? Anyway, enough for the interested to trace it... 1) -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [NERAIL] [Fwd: [PRR] PRR Cabin in Boston?] Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:19:05 -0400 From: "Reading, John (COGRA)" March Callboy, Message Wire excerpt: Effective 2/18, the hand-throw switch off Track 1 on the Eastern Route in Chelsea was out of service for future removal. This switch, east of the station at Arlington and 6th Streets, had been used for maintenance-of-way purposes when the T rehabbed the Eastern Route from Everett Jct. and Salem. It connected to the remnant of CSX's ex-Boston & Albany Grand Junction Branch, once Conrail's access to East Boston, allowing CR to abandon the parallel Grand Junction track to the New England Produce Center. Until the mid-1990s, CR used trackage rights on the Eastern Route from Everett Jct. to Revere and down the B&M East Boston Branch (the original Eastern Railroad right of way) to serve the Mobil plant. The Grand Junction in East Boston, isolated since the counterweight of B&A's Chelsea Creek draw-bridge fell off in 1955, has been torn up south of Day Square for the Greenway project. *** CSX donated an old caboose for a Greenway park off Meridian St. *** Track is still in to Bell Steel, which hasn't received rail shipments in a long time. At the tank farm on the Revere-East Boston border, the old warehouses are being torn down, leaving only oil docks for tank cars and trucks. By the Railroad St. crossing is a small rail yard; Guilford uses one track to set off tank cars at about 11 PM twice a week. ======================= (2) ========================= Subject: Re: [NERAIL] [Fwd: [PRR] PRR Cabin in Boston?] Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:16:27 EDT From: Michael Clements To: NERAIL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Yes sir, it is located near the A Street Yard in South Boston at the Shaugnessey Crane Co. It is on Roger K.'s list too. ======================== best dwp MC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:34:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] New Pennsy Book Folks, My local hobby shop fella just called and tells me he has a new Pennsy 'picture book' from Four Ways West, for a change of pace. Guess the title is something like The Pennsylvania railroad Altoona to New York". Anyone seen this yet, or even heard of it? I probably won't be able to resist a copy this weekend if the Morning Sun trackside Philley hasn't arrived yet. (I can't afford both at one hit at the moment what with all the layout building going ahead down in the nether regions of the house). Well, anyway, keep an eye out. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:39:06 -0400 From: "John Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [CR] Re: RF & P Interface [PRR] It seems like I've seen pictues of RF&P and/or ACL E's north of Washington when GG-1's were disabled by snow in air intakes. I don't remember where the pics were. John Ryan Michael Allen wrote: > Jeff et alia > > Some where in my references are several pictures of Florida-bound > streamliners with ACL et c power at 30th Street > > MEA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 19:19:18 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] K4's in freight service Ted, list, Just common enough to be documented. In the Altoona-Pittsburg area K4s engines occasionally hauled freight east (light tonnage relative to what the freight power usually lugged) to balance power. I've also seen shots of K4s engines double headed near Chicago with freight. At the same time, by the late 30s and beyond, with relatively few other passenger engines (most of the early Atlantics and K2s/K2sa Pacifics having been scrapped by 1939, with a few surivivors hanging on until the late 40s), the K4s engines active were nearly always involved in speeding passenger trains along. While use of passenger power in freight service may seem odd, remember that a K4s Pacific's tractive force is equivalent to that of an H8sb class engine (44,460 for the K4s and 45327 for the H8sb). Doug "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > PRR Gize: > > Once in a great while, I come across pictures of K-4s hauling freight > trains. I was wondering on how rare (or common) that this practice was. Was > it more common in certan parts of the railroad than in other areas? Did it > occur basically to balance power? > > The photos taken indicate to me that although it was rare, K-4's on frieght > trains were common enough to be caught on film. > > Any thoughts? > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Intermountain body shells From: Fred G Rea Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 21:50:46 EDT Can anyone tell me what power chassis would be best with the Intermountain F B-unit body shell ? Thanks Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Convention -- Added Event Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 22:21:26 -0400 You got me too Jerry. Unfortunately when you are lurking in the shadows, there is not enough light to make out all the words . Carl P. Izzo PRRT&HS #0832 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention -- Added Event -- APRIL FOOL's From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:35:02 -0400 Geez! The following post that I made last evening was supposed to be this year's April Fool's gig, but either everyone was off-line or it sounded too plausible. Nobody made mention of it!!! Lots of folks anticipate something to happen each year, but this makes two sleeper years in a row! No, there is no excursion as described. Until next year... On 4/1/00 5:33 PM, Jerry Britton at (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: tserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] Official Register of Passenger Equipment Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:04:05 -0400 Howdy Jerry: 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956 Official Rgeister of Passenger Equipment issues on hand Cos ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 2:25 PM Subject: [PRR] Official Register of Passenger Equipment > > List-Unsubscribe: > > Anyone have the 1954 edition of the Official Register of Passenger > Equipment? > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For Brass Enthusiasts (under development) > http://www.brasstrains.net > For Dealers and Manufacturers > http://www.modelrailroadnews.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:10:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Interesting sighting In a message dated 00-04-03 23:02:09 EDT, fredrea@juno.com writes: << Was it anyone on the list, or anybody know this person? >> Don't know, but there's somebody around Philly with the identical PRR-GG1 on a Pennsylvania tag. I believe I saw it on a third state's car also. There's no reason that there wouldn't be one in every Eastern state which allows vanity tags! Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FarbLand@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:17:53 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] New Pennsy Book Barry and all, I picked up the book this past weekend at the Timonium Train show for $40. Dave was signing the books, after taking off the shrink wrap it smelled like it just came off the press. It is similiar in format to the Pennsy Diesel Years books. Good pictures and as was mentioned most have not been published before. Still not enough Northern Division photos for me, but this book was Altoona to New York, maybe a future book will have more. I also picked up a the Elmira branch book for $23 so I haven't read all of the New book yet. Brian C ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] Wreck Photos Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:43:08 -0400 Hi All, I have just posted more official PRR diesel wreck photos in the photos section of the Yahoo Pennsylvania railroad club. http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/pennslyvaniarailroad Yes, I know it is spelled wrong - sorry. Anyway, does anyone know when, where, and why F-3 # 5901a went for a big dump? I am guessing it is in the mid-50s from the date on the rear coupler. The PRR chose to fix her. There is also a freshly painted Baldwin Switcher # 5959 , wrecked Centipedes, and an E-8a Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 07:48:41 -0400 From: Richard Campbell Subject: [PRR] PCL Anyone have the address of the Passenger Car List Thanks Neil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 07:51:44 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain body shells The shells were designed for an Athearn or Stewart/Kato chassis but I have customers that have had good success using a Proto 1000 chassis. Frank Brua Fred G Rea wrote: > Can anyone tell me what power chassis would be best with the > Intermountain F B-unit body shell ? > > Thanks > > Fred Rea > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:52:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PCL In a message dated 4/5/00 6:50:01 AM Central Daylight Time, pennsyneil@home.com writes: << Anyone have the address of the Passenger Car List >> pcl@nshore.org is what I have as most recent. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Conan Evans" Subject: [PRR] BOWSER announces the N5 / N5C Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:31:50 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: threebutchers@cs.com [mailto:threebutchers@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:20 AM To: N@egroups.com; n_scale@egroups.com; PRR@egroups.com; PROTOTYPEModeler@egroups.com Subject: [PM-list] PRR, LIRR, NH N-Scale interest...BOWSER announces the N5 / N5C List / Pennsy Fans... BOWSER has formally announced the PRR N5 caboose, with the N5C soon to follow. Paint schemes will vary from as-built to CONRAIL. Previously, these prototypes have only been available in brass from Con-Cor, Quality-Craft, Precision Scale, and KEY. Most of these offerings were LOADED with errors and inaccuracies, so if BOWSER follows the quality of their HO offering, we will have a great model we can afford to own and model in virtually any variation. HOWEVER, I was informed by Lee English of BOWSER that they WILL NOT BE OFFERING THE CORRECT "Pennsy" CABOOSE TRUCK, but Atlas' Bettendorf as a substitute. The correct truck has the VERY distinct spotting features of high arch and a single spring. This same truck was used on nearly every Pennsy caboose class until the N8 in 1950. Lee is concerned about adding the additional cost to the product (@ $5). He also said that feedback from others indicated the correct truck "does not matter." It is not too late....please e-mail Lee English at BOWSER and let him know you want the correct truck......Microtrains compatible for wheelset and coupler conversion. Let him know there is a tremendous secondary market for the truck to upgrade previously released kits like the GLOORCRAFT, Con-Cor, brass, etc. Since this is BOWSERS first N Tooling, they are VERY interested in feedback. If you know of others who would be concerned as well, please forward on this e-mail so they can contact BOWSER as well... bowser@uplink.com Thanks in advance; Brian Butcher PRRT&HS #5540 PRR 30s-50s 1/160th ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/936/0/_/702554/_/954940797/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Community email addresses: Post message: PROTOTYPEmodeler@onelist.com Subscribe: PROTOTYPEmodeler-subscribe@onelist.com Unsubscribe: PROTOTYPEmodeler-unsubscribe@onelist.com List owner: PROTOTYPEmodeler-owner@onelist.com Shortcut URL to this page: http://www.onelist.com/community/PROTOTYPEmodeler ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:46:27 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain body shells In a message dated 04/04/2000 22:06:48 Eastern Daylight Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: > Can anyone tell me what power chassis would be best with the > Intermountain F B-unit body shell ? > They slip right onto the Steward frame. Use the ones with Kato drive if you can find them. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Intermountain body shells Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:01:22 -0400 I was just wondering... Has the PRR units come out yet? If so, how good is the paint job and lettering? Is it a good shade of Brunswick Green? Is the striping and lettering crisp and straight? Is the lettering the correct size and type set? Thank you in advance for any information that you can relay. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: SUVCWORR@aol.com [mailto:SUVCWORR@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 8:46 AM To: fredrea@juno.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain body shells In a message dated 04/04/2000 22:06:48 Eastern Daylight Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: > Can anyone tell me what power chassis would be best with the > Intermountain F B-unit body shell ? > They slip right onto the Steward frame. Use the ones with Kato drive if you can find them. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 13:23:57 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Custom Finishing Work Sought From: Jerry Britton I am looking to estab