From: Ljgurke@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:01:50 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fa1613aa2443fd96d2cb3c4f72e40175 Jerry and List, I'm using: - Atlas Code 100 Flex and #6 switches hidden staging yards - Micro-Engineering Code 100 / Peco Insulfrog Code 100 Switches ("DCC Friendly") on the Mainline - Micro-Engineering Code 83 / Atlas Code 83 #4/#6 and Tilig Code 83 #5 switches (also all "DCC friendly"), in branchlines and yards. I like the look and "feel" of the M-E track - although being stiff it is a little harder to work with than the Atlas "super-flex". So far, I've had a bit of a hard time finding the M-E Code 100 track - though it looks like Standard Hobby Supply just came through. Some of the Peco turnouts appear to be in short supply as well. I have been impressed with the Tillig turnouts, as an alternative to code 83 Atlas or Shinohara - European prototype close-up but weathered rail with continuous (no pivot) point rails. Also, I understand that the Shinohara/Walthers turnouts can take quite a bit of work to make "DCC friendly". Mike Hagan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: OnTrackHby@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 01:40:39 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f055ed91251751faaa5ab5a97e6cf113 Jerry; Many of your observations about Code 100 versus Code 83 rail are right on target. In many instances, particularly on the PRR, Code 100 rail (155 lb) would be the correct rail size, but for the mainline only. I think that the first problem you may run into though is the appearance differences between the two, particularly if you use different brands. I have found that while the Atlas track is generally less expensive, the ties, ties spacing and spike head size is grossly out of scale. My preference when it comes to track is the Micro-Engineering line of track. While this track is definitely more difficult to lay, once down, the appearance is well worth the effort. If in doubt, my suggestion would be to buy a couple of lengths of the various brands, lay them down on a test board, then weather and ballast the track and see for yourself. I think you will be convinced. The M.E. brand ties, tie spacing and spike heads are much finer and yield a much better appearance overall. As far as turnouts, again, the ME brand do look nicer, but here I have a hard time making a recommendation. My limited experience with this brand of turnout is not favorable due to poor construction. There is a tendency for the point rails to 'fall apart', and the frog is not always well in line with the turnout. I prefer the Shinohara/Walther's line of turnouts. Many larger hobby dealers carry both of these lines, since they compliment one another. Finally, as to rail size, on my layout I use all codes (100 for hidden track, 83 on the main, 70 in the yards, secondary trackage and some industrial track, and even 55 on some other industrial trackage). Yes, the smaller the rail size, the more careful you need to be. After careful trackwork, I have not experienced ANY problems, however, I must emphasize not only careful trackwork, but well tuned loco's and rolling stock as it concerns wheel sets (I recommend Kadee or similar metal type wheelsets) and keeping wheels in gauge. I think appearance sums it all up though - the smaller the rail size, the heavier looking your equipment looks sitting on the rail! I've always considered the trackwork as much a part of the scenery as anything else. The more time and effort spent up front during this part of construction will come back in terms of visual enjoyment over the years time and time again! I have no regrets at all. Best of luck! Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 03:02:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1ec2d88ffc902ab8db2bbfb2d3cbffaa In a message dated 11/30/1999 11:11:04 PM Central Standard Time, Ljgurke@aol.com writes: << Also, I understand that the Shinohara/Walthers turnouts can take quite a bit of work to make "DCC friendly". >> Just a gentle rejoinder that the so-called unfriendly DCC turnout problem is more one of out-of gage and out of spec wheels and wheelsets than it is the turnouts (unless the turnout happens to be out of spec as well). As someone pointed out on the LDSIG list, wheels that are within spec operate well on analog DC and DCC; wheels that are out of spec short analog DC and DCC. You notice the latter more on DCC because you shut down the whole system. The same guys who shut down DCC systems have been shutting down analog DC blocks for years. To personalize the issue, I recently made the comment that I had replaced the wheels in my brass cabin cars with plastic because they seemed to be the main culprits at the club in shorting out. The combination of metal truck frames and "racing slick" wide treads on old brass car wheelsets was the culprit. Subsequently, I replaced the plastic wheels with Reboxx double-insulated closer-to-prototype metal wheels and they work fine now. All my other cars have Intermountain metal wheelsets and run perfectly fine through unmodified Atlas, Shinohara, and MEW turnouts. I have also not had any problem with Atlas, Walthers, or Proto2000 diesels or Bowser M1a or Bachmann K4. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] Right of Way flex track Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 08:49:16 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dc79cd493660fda912c512d60d19a2d4 Gentlemen: Since we are on the subject of flex track, I am wondering if any of you came across the brand name called "Right of Way". It was run by a fellow in Los Angeles in the late 1980's. I saw an ad in Mainline Modeler (I think) for Right of Way code 83 detailed flex track. I recievev a free test section (2") and was astonished at the detail in ties. On a scale from 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest, I would rate Micro Engineering (Rail Craft) an 8 and Right of Way an 11. The detail of the ties included the ties plates with two rail sikes and at one anchor spike. Every other tie or so was cribbed with rail anchors. I was hooked! I ordered about 30 3-foot sections and are now being installed on my layout. Soon after my order, I heard that due to declining health, the owner sold off Right of Way to someone else. I have not heard anything since. Do any of you know of this flex track and who owns the molds today? Thanks in advance for any information! Ted Andrews P.S. I do not think that Right of Way was or is related to "Right-of-Way Industries" (O scale) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 10:47:13 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 26564a9a664e76e11f918a756aea7ff4 Still seeking info on this... > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have been? I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:50:18 -0500 (EST) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d3c7d10ab7717fece97fc5ac9dfb76e5 Jerry Britton scribit: > Still seeking info on this... > > > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > > I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! > Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have > been? > I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. Given the words "PRR" and "NKP" and "Pa.", the only locations I can think of would be in NW Pa. A search of mapquest.com for "Oakland" and "Pa." returns 6 matches: SE of Johnstown E of Pittsburgh betw. Exton and Downingtown and these 3 in NW Pa: near Lanesboro just SW of New Castle NW of the I-79 / I-80 junction I will defer to Al Buchan, whose territory this is, to respond further, or to Jerry Jordak. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vastano,Sam" Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:02:54 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4856515dd522b7ae54dc17eba826d2f7 I live in New Castle, The only Oakland I know of is in the city of Pittsburgh? I dont know th NKP well enough to know where it would have crossed. Sorry I can't be any more help. Sam -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 10:47 AM Subject: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request >Still seeking info on this... > >> As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about >> the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of >> the junction area and details of what apparently was a >> separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited >> there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I >> haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > >I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! > >Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have >been? > >I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. > >--------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com >Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 12:40:58 -0500 From: Bob Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6927722a92bb21d464ad59c42fe45463 All, Checking my 10/38 & 1/46 ORER's, the only interchange between the PRR & NKP is in Oakland, ILL, not PA. Also, my 3/69 Official Guide has a station for the PC and N&W at Oakland, Coles County, ILL. There are 2 junctions between the PRR & NKP in PA & are at Erie & Thornton Jct according to the ORER's. Thornton Jct is 78.0 miles from New Castle on the Erie & Ashtabula Div, (p352 5/1/45 PRR CT1000C) --Bob Colquitt Mark Bej wrote: > > Jerry Britton scribit: > > Still seeking info on this... > > > > > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > > > > I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! > > Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have > > been? > > I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. > > Given the words "PRR" and "NKP" and "Pa.", the only locations I can > think of would be in NW Pa. > > A search of mapquest.com for "Oakland" and "Pa." returns 6 > matches: > SE of Johnstown > E of Pittsburgh > betw. Exton and Downingtown > and these 3 in NW Pa: > near Lanesboro > just SW of New Castle > NW of the I-79 / I-80 junction > > I will defer to Al Buchan, whose territory this is, to respond further, > or to Jerry Jordak. > > -- > Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:45:37 EST Subject: [PRR] Could it be Oakland IL? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e5754dfc03bb9b4740e1b58a8cec76cb In a message dated 11/30/99 3:16:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Many of you know of Tony Koester and his infamous Allegheny Midland layout...which has been featured in MR and video many times. You may not be aware, but Tony has dismantled the AM and is preparing a new layout based on the NKP. He poses this question to the group: > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. Please forward responses to me and I'll forward to him. Thanks. >> Jerry, I wonder if the answers would be somewhat different if the query was for Oakland IL? I ask this because I know 1. Tony's hometown is Cayuga IN, almost on the Illinois line and close to the Wabash River. 2. Tony is designing a model of the Nickel Plate's Clover Leaf Third District, starting at Frankfort IN and going west/southwest toward St Louis. I believe the projected west end of the layout is the division point at Charleston IL, not far southwest of Oakland IL. 3. The Clover Leaf intersects PRR's Peoria Branch at Oakland, IL, 38.5 miles out from Terre Haute IN, and an interlocking plus block-limit station for the Pennsy (ref 1946 St. Louis Division timetable #7). In 1946, the Oakland "Block-Limit Station" is shown as being controlled by "open block station" Vigo (located in Terre Haute) 4. The 1968 PRR Southwest Division track chart shows a connecting (interchange?) track in the northwest quadrant at Oakland, with the main and this interchange track crossed by Teeter Street and by Hazel Street. It locates a telephone booth at the north (NKP) end of this connecting track, but is otherwise uninformative about the location of either the PRR or NKP station. 5. Somewhere, I think I've seen a photo of PRR Oakland station. But I haven't remembered where yet -- other SPF's help me out...... Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 12:57:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, NKP & PRR From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 30193a423dae5ba1f7169e60cbc519cb On 12/1/99 12:40 PM, Bob (wahsatch@vaix.net) wrote: > Checking my 10/38 & 1/46 ORER's, the only interchange between the PRR > & NKP is in Oakland, ILL, not PA. Also, my 3/69 Official Guide has a > station for the PC and N&W at Oakland, Coles County, ILL. > There are 2 junctions between the PRR & NKP in PA & are at Erie & > Thornton Jct according to the ORER's. Thornton Jct is 78.0 miles from > New Castle on the Erie & Ashtabula Div, (p352 5/1/45 PRR CT1000C) Tony updates his request: > Egads! I typed "Pa." > > My sincere apologies, Jerry. The town is Oakland, ILLINOIS, > where the PRR crossed the NKP's St. Louis line. So, anyone have photos or other info on the PRR at Oakland, IL? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:08:26 -0500 Subject: [PRR] HO Scale Track Brands & The PRR From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dbe3d6ceb103f4b2dadfe24c94526f33 Greetings from the PRR's Eastern Region... Thanks to all on both the PRR-talk and LDSIG lists who responded to my questions about brands of HO scale track. The reason I could not find Shinohara on Walther's site is that they do not list it under "S". It is under "W" and is listed as "Walther's Shinohara" and includes not just Code 83, but Code 70 and Code 100 as well. The vendor ID is "948". Even a keyword search for "Shinohara" turns up empty. Guess they just don't want to sell it! Everyone seems to agree that, for the mainline PRR, Code 100 is the way to go. All also agree that Atlas, while very reliable, is way oversized for ties, spikes, etc. Micro Engineering seems to be the favorite. The prototype mains were 155 lbs., so Code 100 scales the best. As for curved turnouts, there were many suggestions and experiences. Most, but not all, recommended Shinohara. I will proceed with purchasing a few pieces from each vendor and just see how it goes. Thanks for all the input! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:29:26 -0500 From: Bob Rothrock Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cb5e9f74aeeac82533a7e20f6d41d226 FYI: I grew up in northwest PA & haunted the NKP and the PRR between the NY & Ohio state lines, and can assure you that there was/is no "Oakland, Pa." in that area. The Pennsy crossed the NKP at Thornton Junction (Springfield, PA) and had an interchange track (not a crossing) with them on the east side of Erie. Bob Rothrock Leroy, Ohio ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "wbigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:27:45 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fb76691cacc49dba080288a625e74d2e Unless the W&LE counts as NKP. . . . .? -----Original Message----- From: wbigler To: Mark Bej ; prr-talk@dsop.com Cc: Al Buchan ; JerryJordak Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request >Based on what I know about the area, the last one has to be it unless there >are 2 Lanesboros! > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Bej >To: prr-talk@dsop.com >Cc: Al Buchan ; JerryJordak >Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 11:57 AM >Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request > > >>Jerry Britton scribit: >>> Still seeking info on this... >>> >>> > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about >>> > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of >>> > the junction area and details of what apparently was a >>> > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited >>> > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I >>> > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. >>> >>> I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! >>> Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have >>> been? >>> I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. >> >>Given the words "PRR" and "NKP" and "Pa.", the only locations I can >>think of would be in NW Pa. >> >>A search of mapquest.com for "Oakland" and "Pa." returns 6 >>matches: >> SE of Johnstown >> E of Pittsburgh >> betw. Exton and Downingtown >>and these 3 in NW Pa: >> near Lanesboro >> just SW of New Castle >> NW of the I-79 / I-80 junction >> >>I will defer to Al Buchan, whose territory this is, to respond further, >>or to Jerry Jordak. >> >>-- >>Mark >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "wbigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:24:35 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 38600cf32da3d59f9f5364463abbe711 Based on what I know about the area, the last one has to be it unless there are 2 Lanesboros! -----Original Message----- From: Mark Bej To: prr-talk@dsop.com Cc: Al Buchan ; JerryJordak Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request >Jerry Britton scribit: >> Still seeking info on this... >> >> > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about >> > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of >> > the junction area and details of what apparently was a >> > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited >> > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I >> > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. >> >> I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! >> Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have >> been? >> I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. > >Given the words "PRR" and "NKP" and "Pa.", the only locations I can >think of would be in NW Pa. > >A search of mapquest.com for "Oakland" and "Pa." returns 6 >matches: > SE of Johnstown > E of Pittsburgh > betw. Exton and Downingtown >and these 3 in NW Pa: > near Lanesboro > just SW of New Castle > NW of the I-79 / I-80 junction > >I will defer to Al Buchan, whose territory this is, to respond further, >or to Jerry Jordak. > >-- >Mark > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:29:01 -0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 27087ed49f2bf6404da04525298c0e70 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF3C32.522D6000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What about using Peco code 75 which is also available with a good range = of switch configerations and is cheaper than Shinohara or at least in = the UK.. It dosn't look to bad and they make joiners to attach to code 100 if = needed. Patrick Grace ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF3C32.522D6000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What about using Peco code 75 which = is also=20 available with a good range of switch configerations and is cheaper than = Shinohara or at least in the UK..
 
It dosn't look to bad and they make = joiners to=20 attach to code 100 if needed.
 
Patrick Grace
 
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF3C32.522D6000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:50:53 -0600 From: Richard Wallis Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7e4bf3cf5690e123e8425f9fa4d4fc6e Jerry Britton wrote: > Still seeking info on this... > > > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. Jerry: The only Oakland, Pa. I have been able to locate is on the E&P branch north of New Castle. Are you sure he doesn't mean Oakland, Illinois? The Peoria branch crossed the NKP's Cloverleaf District at that point and both lines had separate depots (the PRR depot still stands, moved west about .3 mi.). Richard Wallis Wheaton, Il. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] N Scale Texas Eagle cars Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:44:54 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 894a6c1a91112a15dec5d210ea6a2d1d Marshall Shops is producing N Scale Texas Eagle passenger cars, and I was wondering if anybody can tell me if the 14-4 and 10-6 would be appropriate for inclusion in a model of the Penn Texas in 1954, which included a few MP sleepers and connected to the Texas Eagle (or at least with MP 1 and MP 21, if I read the consist sheet correctly). In other words, were those sleepers in MP, Texas Eagle, or PRR livery? Secondarily, Marshall Shops is producing an MP mail-baggage which might also be correct for mail interchange service, but (I would guess) most likely not in Texas Eagle livery. See http://www.marshallshops.com/ for pics and more info. Thanks for any info! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA Boxcars, flatcars, going-to-North Platte cars... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:50:46 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1656159c923ecc5bcd21b920a29349aa -----Original Message----- From: bejm@gateway.eeg.ccf.org [mailto:bejm@gateway.eeg.ccf.org]On Behalf Of Mark Bej Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 11:50 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Cc: Al Buchan; Jerry Jordak Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Perhaps one reason no one responded is that there is no Oakland PA where the PRR crosses the NKP. There are only two places the PRR could cross the NKP in PA and that is on the P&E east of Erie or the E&P west of Erie. I know it wasn't either as the E&P was Thornton Jct. and the P&E crossing (vic OD Yard)was grade separated, NKP over PRR. However, a review of the 1945 CT 1000 shows two Oklands one in IL on the Old St. Louis Div and the other in OH on the old Cincinnati Div. A lo and behold when you go to page 475 to look at Oakland, IL it says "N.Y.C.&St.L. Connection" BINGO. And when you go to page 443 and look at Oakland, OH it only has a passing siding and two industries. So I guess its Illinois. So you should wake up to Lines West guys from their deep sleep. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:03:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale Texas Eagle cars From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1e35fc140ad1186c9851bd4459f28c20 On 12/1/99 3:44 PM, Dennis Rockwell (dennis@bbn.com) wrote: > Marshall Shops is producing N Scale Texas Eagle passenger > cars, and I was wondering if anybody can tell me if the 14-4 > and 10-6 would be appropriate for inclusion in a model of > the Penn Texas in 1954, which included a few MP sleepers and > connected to the Texas Eagle (or at least with MP 1 and MP > 21, if I read the consist sheet correctly). In other words, > were those sleepers in MP, Texas Eagle, or PRR livery? >From my "24 Hours At Harrisburg" study on "Keystone Crossings", here's the 1954 consist of the Penn Texas (originating in New York): The Penn Texas Mail Storage.....New York to St. Louis or Beyond (MS60, R50, OR B60) (Letter End East) Baggage Mail.....New York to St. Louis (BM70M) (Letter End East) Coach Baggage.....New York to St. Louis (PB70 Scheme 4) Coaches.....New York to St. Louis (P85BR) (Two cars) Tavern Lounge Car.....New York to St. Louis (For coach passengers) Dining Car.....New York to St. Louis Lounge Car.....New York to St. Louis (PS6L) "Alde Falls", "Aspen Falls" OR "Balsam Falls" Sleeping Car.....New York to St. Louis (PS21) "Van Wert Inn", "Urbana Inn" OR "Ashtabula Inn" Sleeping Car.....New York to San Antonio (PS106 OR 14 roomettes, 4 double bedrooms) "J . B. Bonham" (Frisco), "D. Crocket" (Frisco), "P. Laclede" (Frisco), "Swatara Rapids" (Mkt.), OR "Tioga Rapids" (Mkt.) (To Frisco-Katy No. 21). Sleeping Car.....New York to El Paso (14 roomettes, 4 double bedrooms) "Eagle City" (MP), "Eagle Beach" (MP), "Eagle Summit" (MP), "Eagle Chain" (MP), OR "Eagle Path" (MP)(To Mo. Pac. No. 1). Sleeping Car.....New York to San Antonio (PS106) "Eagle Grande" (MP), "Eagle Eye" (MP), "Eagle Cove" (MP), "Eagle Charm" (MP), "Eagle Bluff" (MP), "Eagle Chief" (MP), OR "Eagle Beam" (MP)(To Mo. Pac. No. 21). Sleeping Car.....New York to Houston (PS106) "Eagle Grande" (MP), "Eagle Eye" (MP), "Eagle Cove" (MP), "Eagle Charm" (MP), "Eagle Bluff" (MP), "Eagle Chief" (MP), OR "Eagle Beam" (MP) (To Mo. Pac. No. 21). Sleeping Car.....New York to Columbus (PS106) Sleeping Car.....Washington to St. Louis-Houston (PS106) (To Mo. Pac. No. 21). Harrisburg: Move from 575. Both the 10-6 and the 14-4 are appropriate, though it looks like they were all in MP livery. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] code 83 etc Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:45:46 -0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 29ac06df677ce6ca4665eb2996754841 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0295_01BF3C4D.CE5B46E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes I know but here in the UK the defacto "fine scale" standard seems to = be code 75. Peco do also of course do course 100. I believe that the = following European manufacturers do code 83 track, Tillig, Lima and Roco = but it is relatively expensive. P Grace ------=_NextPart_000_0295_01BF3C4D.CE5B46E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes I know but here in the UK the = defacto=20 "fine scale" standard seems to be code 75. Peco do also of = course do=20 course 100. I believe that the following European manufacturers do code = 83=20 track, Tillig, Lima and Roco but it is relatively = expensive.
 
P Grace
------=_NextPart_000_0295_01BF3C4D.CE5B46E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Reinhold Subject: [PRR] Southport yard track assignments Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:56:03 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f1df4d362eed1f1c02ffcd1ea7943dd9 Hello to the list, First off, in the Elmira Branch book, it shows a view of southport yard with #'s to ID the tracks, but there is not a listing for the tracks usage. Anyone know which were used for a/d, storage, classification, etc. Second, the book also states that the yard was expanded in the mid 50's. Is the book view the latest arrangement or some earlier arrangement. I model 1950 and would like to know what tracks were in place at that time. thanks in advance Pete R. Reinhold Pete Reinhold Universal Die & Stampings preinhol@unidie.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:00:06 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender doghouses X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7b8b7993ec156702a153718a2ff9d097 In a message dated 11/28/99 7:57:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, george.pierson@trnty.edu writes: << Obviously one of the purposes of riding in the doghouse was to watch the train, especially for hotboxes. >> It always seemed to me that the law and/or union contract required a place for the head end brakie to sit. The PRR - who would rather have dispensed with this crew member on through trains decided not to go to much effort to make it comfortable, or to make it as uncomfortable as legally possible Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 19:56:34 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: be800db8650b7476200c224c607b7d26 Ted and the list, As far as PRR's rail in NJ, all pictures I've seen that include track details show jointed, not welded rail in the late 1940s and early 50s that I model. Doug "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > As far as the 132 pound rail in NJ is concerned, is it welded or jointed? If > it is welded, it could be "fit" or secondhand rail that was formerly jointed > but reclaimed and welded at a rail plant. When I was with Conrail, railgangs > were putting down "fit" welded rail that was 20 - 30 years old. So the rail > in NJ could fall into that category. OR, it might be one those exceptions to > the rule! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:02:29 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] February 2000 Model Railroader Article on I1sa detailing X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 02c88ee9b02e1722a0a60e3e39eecd14 Steve and the list, Thanks! It's nice to know one of my inspirations is alive, well, and happy! Please, by all means share his tips with the list. I've regeared three steam engines so far, and they've come out well, but this is one area where you can never have enough information! Doug Stephen Hoxie wrote: > Doug-- > >(and Strachan's September 1978 MR > >article) > Ron is alive and quite well here in the Pensacola area, now in his eighties. > I will pass on to him that you got good use out of his article. He was at > my house two weeks ago with one of the Atlantics from the article. He is a > very interesting guy. An Englishman, he served in the British Army during > WWII and has lots of tank stories from the North African desert. He > immigrated here after the war and fell in love with eastern steam, mostly > PRR. His most notable contribution to my modeling expertise was showing me > how to get HO steam engines, usually brass, to run right with an idler > gearbox and Sagami can motor. Everything he has runs like a fine watch. > > Just thought you might like to know. > > Steve Hoxie > Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:04:00 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO rolling stock list X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e73722317f3b2dcd1715abf2c95f6ea5 Hello list, Rob's PRR page (Jerry has links to it from the Keystone Crossings site) has pages for every major PRR freight car class and appropriate HO models for most of them. Happy hunting! Doug NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone compiled a list of cars that are pototypical for the PRR in HO? If > so please E mail or post which web site has it. Thanks. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:18:01 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Correcting Bowser I1sa steam pipes X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1564aa9e88310692631c4601f14dd109 Hello list, Don Harper deserves the credit for this idea, he made the observation in a previous post that the Bowser I1sa steam pipes didn't go high enough up the smokebox, In my last Bowser order, I got a pair of the M1 steam pipes, as Don suggested, and I've successfully adapted them to my abuilding 4483. There is some surgery involved, including drilling two holes in the I1sa cylinder block for the M1 steam pipes. The major work involves cutting the running boards on both sides to clear the new, taller, steam pipes. I used a razor saw for the early cuts, and then I used a cutting bit in my Dremel to grind away enough of the remaining running board to clear the new steam pipes. My left hand running board was a little easier than the right because I'd already cut it away to install the new styrene extension I used for my mechanical lubricator equipped prototype (the Bowser engine has a low running board on both the left and right sides). Things went back together pretty easily, and I'm pleased with the new pipes. Again, thanks Don! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 21:22:39 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Right of Way flex track X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: eebaac7611dde6e9222c151227c921aa Hi, Ted, Right O' Way was previously owned, as I remember, by Gene LaVancil. The present owner is Lou Cross, 23682 Road 15 3/4, Chowchilla, Calif. 93610-9316. Telephone 559-665-1001 He will send a list and samples for an SSAE. This past year I had occasion to order 400 ft of O Scale .148 steel rail in 6 foot lengths. Mr. Cross is very pleasant to do business with. Subject: Right of Way flex track From: "Andrews, Ted" Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 08:49:16 -0500 Gentlemen: Since we are on the subject of flex track, I am wondering if any of you came across the brand name called "Right of Way". ............... Soon after my order, I heard that due to declining health, the owner sold off Right of Way to someone else. I have not heard anything since. Do any of you know of this flex track and who owns the molds today? Thanks in advance for any information! Ted Andrews P.S. I do not think that Right of Way was or is related to "Right-of-Way Industries" (O scale) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ljgurke@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 21:52:47 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8382c9bfb6578f7d22f6b7c8c0824198 In a message dated 12/1/99 3:09:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bobspf@aol.com writes: << Just a gentle rejoinder that the so-called unfriendly DCC turnout problem is more one of out-of gage and out of spec wheels and wheelsets than it is the turnouts (unless the turnout happens to be out of spec as well) >> Thanks Bob! I often suspected that this was the case, but I never heard it explained as definitively and succinctly as you put it! Mike Hagan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jimy6b@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:15:07 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Scale Track Brands & The PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 895d4ea6b6be105e74aa4b41255187bd I must take exception with the statement that Atlas track is out of scale. True Atlas code 100 track is not the best looking track but their code 83 track is in scale ties and all. In my opinion it is the best looking track and is very easy to work with. Plus it is very reasonably priced and readily available. James ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:29:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR J1 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 042f6b29fbffd304fa47b1500d954047 List, This post goes out to the modelers on this list but especially to the brass dealers and collectors that may be lurking here. This past summer while talking to a fellow Pennsy Modeler I recently met, the conversation of PRR J1's came up. He is the biggest fan of this loco I have ever seen. He is also a Brass Locomoive buyer. Again, specificlly a buyer of the J1 Models that were released by Key Imports. I believe he has 5 of them. All from the first run of 1985. They also released a run in 1992. The 1992 release had a few different features than the earlier run. Nothing major except for the Tender which had the high sides, and long sanding lines that a few real J1,s had. Being an expert on the J's that this guy is, he is still trying to figure out something about the Key J1 that was released in 1992. There were evidently 2 Key Import J1 models released that year. We know for a fact that J1 #6464 was released in both painted and unpainted versions. However, we need info on the other J1 that was released in 1992. What number was this J1 given? It was also released as a painted and unpainted version. Is it identical to the #6464 J1 or was there differences in the detailing, ie: Antenna, long or short sanding pipes, notch nose, etc.? Is there anyone with knowledge pertaining to these models. If here is any owner of these 1992 released J'1 2-10-4's here on the list, please by all means get in touch with me and let me know which loco numbers your J's represent. I was lucky enough to find and purchase one of the 1992 J1s, #6464, recently and recieved it today. What a Model!!! These things do not come up for sale very often so I had to act fast. Hope to hear from someone soon....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Berndt" Subject: [PRR] M-497 gas turbine powered RDC Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:32:44 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 815d5f76898c112c991414a71ddc4dff Below is a recent comment from the pages of Invention & Technology Magazine on the 1966 run of NYC's gas turbine powered M-497. As a witness to the runs I never doubted that it was dangerous as it ran through several towns and cities. PRR-NYC rivalry? __________ A Dangerous Stunt? At the risk of reigniting the "red-green" wars brought on by the merger of the Pennsylvania and New York Central Railroads in 1968, I feel compelled to offer comment on "Postfix: Jet Train," by Ed Pershey, in your Fall 1999 issue. I was at the time the Pennsylvania Railroad's coordinator of the Northeast Corridor Demonstration Project, a government-railroad-supplier partnership that ultimately brought the Metroliner and Turbo-train to service in 1969. In 1966 our project had just gotten under way with road tests of four cars. Our testing eventually achieved the contractually required speed of 155 mph, as we struggled with all manner of difficulties, but the New York Central jet train's achievement of the record speed of 183-plus mph rocked the Pennsylvania Railroad at the highest levels, coming as a complete surprise to a "red team" that had assumed that the merger agreement between the two companies was a fait accompli and that planning was being conducted in an open and straightforward manner. I have been told on good authority that the reaction to the news was electric, as outrage consumed the Pennsylvania's chairman and merger architect Stuart T. Saunders and his staff. There is no doubt that a North American rail-speed record was set, but whatever else was learned from the experience is most obscure. The flight of the M-497 seems to have been no more than a stunt to take the edge off the Pennsylvania's prominent role in the Northeast Corridor project-and probably a dangerous stunt. I was later reliably told by a colleague, who was personally involved with the preparation of the vehicle and also claimed to have been aboard for the run, that the M- 497 was actually airborne at times when passing over grade crossings at high speed. If indeed disaster was so nearly averted, it was a high risk to take for a mere publicity stunt. Whatever the case, the M-497's run served to agitate the New York Central's future merger partner and perhaps presaged an atmosphere that would ultimately help to bring down all the railroads of the Northeast. The jet train was a diversion, and the current state of high-speed rail in the United States, sorry though it may be, owes nothing to its risky one-time flash of speed on level tangent track through Midwestern cornfields one day in 1966. Robert B. Watson, Devon, Pa. __________ Craig Berndt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 08:05:51 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale Texas Eagle cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: da876f355f011045c35732f69ebf5aa3 All the cars you marked as (MP) were indeed in MoPac livery; but several (Eagle Cove for one) were PRR cars and said so at the ends of the letterboard. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 12/1/99 3:44 PM, Dennis Rockwell (dennis@bbn.com) wrote: > > > Marshall Shops is producing N Scale Texas Eagle passenger > > cars, and I was wondering if anybody can tell me if the 14-4 > > and 10-6 would be appropriate for inclusion in a model of > > the Penn Texas in 1954, which included a few MP sleepers and > > connected to the Texas Eagle (or at least with MP 1 and MP > > 21, if I read the consist sheet correctly). In other words, > > were those sleepers in MP, Texas Eagle, or PRR livery? > > From my "24 Hours At Harrisburg" study on "Keystone Crossings", here's the > 1954 consist of the Penn Texas (originating in New York): > > The Penn Texas > Mail Storage.....New York to St. Louis or Beyond (MS60, R50, OR B60) (Letter > End East) > Baggage Mail.....New York to St. Louis (BM70M) (Letter End East) > Coach Baggage.....New York to St. Louis (PB70 Scheme 4) > Coaches.....New York to St. Louis (P85BR) (Two cars) > Tavern Lounge Car.....New York to St. Louis (For coach passengers) > Dining Car.....New York to St. Louis > Lounge Car.....New York to St. Louis (PS6L) "Alde Falls", "Aspen Falls" OR > "Balsam Falls" > Sleeping Car.....New York to St. Louis (PS21) "Van Wert Inn", "Urbana Inn" > OR "Ashtabula Inn" > Sleeping Car.....New York to San Antonio (PS106 OR 14 roomettes, 4 double > bedrooms) "J . B. Bonham" (Frisco), "D. Crocket" (Frisco), "P. Laclede" > (Frisco), "Swatara Rapids" (Mkt.), OR "Tioga Rapids" (Mkt.) (To Frisco-Katy > No. 21). > Sleeping Car.....New York to El Paso (14 roomettes, 4 double bedrooms) > "Eagle City" (MP), "Eagle Beach" (MP), "Eagle Summit" (MP), "Eagle Chain" > (MP), OR "Eagle Path" (MP)(To Mo. Pac. No. 1). > Sleeping Car.....New York to San Antonio (PS106) "Eagle Grande" (MP), "Eagle > Eye" (MP), "Eagle Cove" (MP), "Eagle Charm" (MP), "Eagle Bluff" (MP), "Eagle > Chief" (MP), OR "Eagle Beam" (MP)(To Mo. Pac. No. 21). > Sleeping Car.....New York to Houston (PS106) "Eagle Grande" (MP), "Eagle > Eye" (MP), "Eagle Cove" (MP), "Eagle Charm" (MP), "Eagle Bluff" (MP), "Eagle > Chief" (MP), OR "Eagle Beam" (MP) (To Mo. Pac. No. 21). > Sleeping Car.....New York to Columbus (PS106) > Sleeping Car.....Washington to St. Louis-Houston (PS106) (To Mo. Pac. No. > 21). Harrisburg: Move from 575. > > Both the 10-6 and the 14-4 are appropriate, though it looks like they were > all in MP livery. > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: endeimling@mindspring.com Subject: [PRR] Keystone Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 06:47:31 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6978263924bc73a637525edb09303cd8 Does any know when the next Keystone is due out? We tend to get things slowly out here in the West. Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 10:08:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d7493331bddc4cc0e27b52352d4a8c7b On 12/2/99 9:47 AM, endeimling@mindspring.com (endeimling@mindspring.com) wrote: > Does any know when the next Keystone is due out? We tend to get things > slowly out here in the West. About 3-4 weeks, I'd imagine. At the last meeting of the Northern Central Chapter, we discussed that the Spring issue comes out in late March/early April. I suggested that this was "too late" for providing convention materials (convention is early May). That would make the Winter issue late December/early January. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Keystone Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:05:45 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 880454a99cbbb6959195b9df49747d18 I have not seen it yet myself. Also, have any of you guys recieved your PRRT&HS membership renewal notices yet? In the past, they usually were mailed in November. Ted Andrews -----Original Message----- From: endeimling@mindspring.com [mailto:endeimling@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 9:48 AM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] Keystone Does any know when the next Keystone is due out? We tend to get things slowly out here in the West. Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 10:19:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 501736780b1327596ef1db874afb90ac On 12/2/99 10:05 AM, Andrews, Ted (Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com) wrote: > I have not seen it yet myself. > > Also, have any of you guys recieved your PRRT&HS membership renewal notices > yet? In the past, they usually were mailed in November. I'd bet they'll be in the Winter "Keystone", to save mailing costs. I think I read somewhere in the by-laws that members have until March to renew to maintain "membership in good standing". --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 15:05:00 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 231576cf67a71d9492fdd951891e2ffa As many of you know, and others will now learn, Branchline Trains is working on a series of highly detailed Pullman heavyweight cars in plastic, for release next spring. These cars will be similar in quality to the phenomenal AAR 50' box cars that just came out...known as the "Blueprint Series". The heavyweight line will initially consist of 8-1-2 sleepers, a coach, and 10-1-2 sleepers. The coach is not a PRR prototype and thus is not offered in PRR livery. Each of the sleepers will be available in three car names. I am in talks (err, e-mails) with the product managers at Branchline about the possibility of adding an additional unit of each: painted, lettered, but no car number or name. The owner could then apply their own decals to finish the model. I consider this a much better option than repainting the whole car or trying to remove lettering and patch paint to match. The Branchline folks are worried that it is too difficult to match the appearance of pad printing with an applied decal. My thought is that, with dullcoat or weathering, the effect of a decal will be minimal. I ask those of you who might want these cars: Would you want an a car with no number or name, or would you rather take an undecorated car and start from scratch? I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? (This is theoretical, not an order!) Another option, if the run is small enough, would be for "Merchandise Service" to finance the run of additional car names, available exclusively through MS. I want to avoid this if possible, but I'd like to see at least six total names available. Heck, I need at least 7 of the 8-2-1's myself! (Not to mention a bunch of 14 sections, 6-6's, and 28-1 parlors!) If anyone is interested, I am accepting Advance Reservations for all available roadnames... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:17:40 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 78e04ca4377204f0734ccf511ab31c0b In a message dated 12/2/99 2:12:05 PM Central Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? >> I'm interested in both, but not more than three each. And some of mine will be in Pullman Green (the Southland). I will shortly be trying to rename some AHM Rapids cars so I'll let you know how the new lettering blends in, though that will be on ancient, badly lettered cars in the first place (just bought them for about $5 each at a show). 'Nuther question. Stripes or no-stripes? I would vote for the former, since I could always do an undec to get the no-stripe version, and I hate lining up those stripes. <> h-m-m. I wonder if this will be a single-window coach similar to the N&W of which Pennsy bought one or more (he mused). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 18:37:33 -0500 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c8c5280b4ae5a29464129b66d33d546a The Branchine coach will be a single window NYC prototype for which Branchline indicates there were many very similar cars built for other railroads. N&W is one of the road names Branchline lists for this car but someone else will have to determine how accurate a model it will make. Car will have 22 windows per side including the washroom window. Frank Brua Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/2/99 2:12:05 PM Central Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > << I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? > And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? >> > > I'm interested in both, but not more than three each. And some of mine will > be in Pullman Green (the Southland). I will shortly be trying to rename some > AHM Rapids cars so I'll let you know how the new lettering blends in, though > that will be on ancient, badly lettered cars in the first place (just bought > them for about $5 each at a show). > > 'Nuther question. Stripes or no-stripes? I would vote for the former, since > I could always do an undec to get the no-stripe version, and I hate lining up > those stripes. > > < PRR livery.>> > > h-m-m. I wonder if this will be a single-window coach similar to the N&W of > which Pennsy bought one or more (he mused). > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:34:40 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dcbe0f998b8efd726b9c72375af25121 In a message dated 12/01/1999 10:49:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > > I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! > > Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have > been? > > I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. > Jerry: Checking the 1953 ORER, there is no junction of the NP and PRR at Oakland, PA. The only junction in PA is Erie and Thornton Jct. However, there is a junction at Oakland ILL. Perhaps this is the reason for no response. If Tony is modeling the same general area as he did with the AM, he may have bad information about the junction. The only Oakland, PA I know about is part of Pittsburgh and there is no crossing or junction of the PRR and NKP at that locality. Rich Orr Rich Orr. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 19:40:47 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Pullman 8-1-2 Roster From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e8d99f0ea52ae9db72b5773ab670642a In following up on my conversations with Branchline Trains, I was investigating the roster of PRR 8-1-2 Pullmans. Guess what? Not much info out there! Branchline has announced three car names: Centhill Centfaun Centwood Now, for my own modeling, I did the study "24 Hours at Harrisburg". As of that date in 1954, there were no less than 16 of these 8-1-2 cars specified between the PRR's "Makeup of Trains" document and the Form 1 PT's. My next step was to looking into having "Merchandise Service" privately market an additional few names through Branchline's custom printing service. All I needed were additional valid car names. Some time ago, Gary Spear e-mailed me a roster of PRR Pullmans. I believe it is web accessible at the PRRT&HS site as well. It obviously is not an "all time" list, as it fails to mention two of the above cars and only names a few others. The entire 8-1-2 roster from his list is: 8600 Bartram Oak 8602 Black Oak 8604 Centhill 8606 Council Oaks 8608 Willow Oak renamed Richard Beatty Mellon renamed George Westinghouse renamed Wadsworth Oak That's only five cars! Surely there were more than this! Plus, Gary's roster lists no instances of the 10-1-2 that Branchline is doing. I found one -- 8699 El Monte (renamed Villa Royal) -- in the "PRR Color Guide V. II". Surely there was more than this one! I suspect that Gary's roster was an "as of this date" type of thing. Or else it is a "this is all I could find" deal. I am specifically looking for more roster info on the 8-1-2, if anyone can help. Most helpful would be the car names and numbers that made it into 1954. BTW: I recently purchased on eBay an ORIGINAL 1954 PRR Passenger Equipment Register. The handwritten notes are priceless...showing when equipment was sold off, converted, etc. Eventually it will get online! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:51:43 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c549c20ce879b8af38dfa309fe5f7da3 Gary: Taxing my memory. As I recall, the difference between the two versions of the 1992 Key J-1 was the frame. Each version represented the two different frames used on the J-1. Some of the J-1 had bar frames while others had cast steel frames. (Note all J-1a had cast frames.) At the time I inquired about the versions but did not purchase either as I had the earlier version in my collection and was more interested in a J-1a. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 19:58:47 -0500 From: DDembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 14aa44c1a960f180dbcf304ba08be3c6 It usually arrives in Ohio in mid-December over the past ten years or so. I believe it once came in early January, but that was an exception. endeimling@mindspring.com wrote: > Does any know when the next Keystone is due out? We tend to get things > slowly out here in the West. > Gene Deimling > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Johnson" Subject: [PRR] CT1000 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:26:58 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ac9ab1b9679948b0b43e4e6bb11b22c2 I have a 1946 PRR CT1000W for the Western Lines that I would like to trade to someone for one covering the Pittsburgh area, specifically the Monongahela secondary. Regards, Greg Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:58:36 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6ea7152d2f030f4c579925329cd88049 Are you sure it's not Oakland , Il? It may be a coincidence but a PRR-NKP crossing was also at Oakland ,Illinois. The PRR Peoria branch and the NKP St.Louis Line crossed there. The whole thing can be done on a sheet of plywood, it's that flat. Steve Long Jerry Britton wrote: > Still seeking info on this... > > > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > > I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! > > Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have > been? > > I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:08:43 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 63410c277c5f0b754362d96fff1726ee Jerry, I'm probably an anomaly in that I need mostly coaches (thank heavens for Eastern Car Works); for myself, I'd probably take a decorated sleeper or two (I'm always in favor of quality passenger cars, even if they're not 100% appropriate for my NYLB). However, I can see a market for the lettered, but not named or numbered cars. My grandfather would love to have some specifically named Pullmans. I can blend the decals well enough for my purposes; I can live with a small difference in sheen to get a car or two for my grandfather. Doug Jerry Britton wrote: > As many of you know, and others will now learn, Branchline Trains is working > on a series of highly detailed Pullman heavyweight cars in plastic, for > release next spring. > > These cars will be similar in quality to the phenomenal AAR 50' box cars > that just came out...known as the "Blueprint Series". > > The heavyweight line will initially consist of 8-1-2 sleepers, a coach, and > 10-1-2 sleepers. The coach is not a PRR prototype and thus is not offered in > PRR livery. > > Each of the sleepers will be available in three car names. I am in talks > (err, e-mails) with the product managers at Branchline about the possibility > of adding an additional unit of each: painted, lettered, but no car number > or name. The owner could then apply their own decals to finish the model. I > consider this a much better option than repainting the whole car or trying > to remove lettering and patch paint to match. > > The Branchline folks are worried that it is too difficult to match the > appearance of pad printing with an applied decal. My thought is that, with > dullcoat or weathering, the effect of a decal will be minimal. > > I ask those of you who might want these cars: Would you want an a car with > no number or name, or would you rather take an undecorated car and start > from scratch? > > I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? > And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? > (This is theoretical, not an order!) > > Another option, if the run is small enough, would be for "Merchandise > Service" to finance the run of additional car names, available exclusively > through MS. I want to avoid this if possible, but I'd like to see at least > six total names available. Heck, I need at least 7 of the 8-2-1's myself! > (Not to mention a bunch of 14 sections, 6-6's, and 28-1 parlors!) > > If anyone is interested, I am accepting Advance Reservations for all > available roadnames... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:10:32 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5f736643420bebf915340a86500bca40 Hello list, I'm with Bob on this one. I'd really like the cars to come with stripes already applied. I use Champ's stripes for my cars, and they go on well, but if I could save a step or two, I'd be quite content. I'm sure that Branchline's alignment would be better than mine! Doug Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/2/99 2:12:05 PM Central Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > << I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? > And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? >> > > I'm interested in both, but not more than three each. And some of mine will > be in Pullman Green (the Southland). I will shortly be trying to rename some > AHM Rapids cars so I'll let you know how the new lettering blends in, though > that will be on ancient, badly lettered cars in the first place (just bought > them for about $5 each at a show). > > 'Nuther question. Stripes or no-stripes? I would vote for the former, since > I could always do an undec to get the no-stripe version, and I hate lining up > those stripes. > > < PRR livery.>> > > h-m-m. I wonder if this will be a single-window coach similar to the N&W of > which Pennsy bought one or more (he mused). > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:12:10 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7535084758a4d6348cb8ef9ce48958ff Gene, I thought it was just me, but the Keystone has arrived slowly here in West Texas as well. Doug endeimling@mindspring.com wrote: > Does any know when the next Keystone is due out? We tend to get things > slowly out here in the West. > Gene Deimling > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 21:10:49 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Could it be Oakland IL? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f929b3bfd8fae41f0e3d0472890a0ee4 You guys need an update, the Oakland depot is still around but moved north off the railroad property, it's near a drive-in bank, I think just off from the original location. The Block Limit signal is on display with the depot. The depot sits on the north side of the state highway and about a quarter mile west of the crossing. The railroad that took over the NKP from Metcalfe, Il. to Charleston, Il. is called the Eastern Illinois Railroad , owned by Illinois Cereal Mills. Steve Long RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/30/99 3:16:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > << Many of you know of Tony Koester and his infamous Allegheny Midland > layout...which has been featured in MR and video many times. You may not be > aware, but Tony has dismantled the AM and is preparing a new layout based on > the NKP. > > He poses this question to the group: > > > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > > Please forward responses to me and I'll forward to him. Thanks. > >> > Jerry, > I wonder if the answers would be somewhat different if the query was for > Oakland IL? I ask this because I know > 1. Tony's hometown is Cayuga IN, almost on the Illinois line and close to the > Wabash River. > 2. Tony is designing a model of the Nickel Plate's Clover Leaf Third > District, starting at Frankfort IN and going west/southwest toward St Louis. > I believe the projected west end of the layout is the division point at > Charleston IL, not far southwest of Oakland IL. > 3. The Clover Leaf intersects PRR's Peoria Branch at Oakland, IL, 38.5 miles > out from Terre Haute IN, and an interlocking plus block-limit station for the > Pennsy (ref 1946 St. Louis Division timetable #7). In 1946, the Oakland > "Block-Limit Station" is shown as being controlled by "open block station" > Vigo (located in Terre Haute) > 4. The 1968 PRR Southwest Division track chart shows a connecting > (interchange?) track in the northwest quadrant at Oakland, with the main and > this interchange track crossed by Teeter Street and by Hazel Street. It > locates a telephone booth at the north (NKP) end of this connecting track, > but is otherwise uninformative about the location of either the PRR or NKP > station. > 5. Somewhere, I think I've seen a photo of PRR Oakland station. But I > haven't remembered where yet -- other SPF's help me out...... > > Til the next train out, > Rick Tipton - Louisville KY > Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) > Operating the Panhandle Route > And Remembering PRR Lines West > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 21:12:47 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, NKP & PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7867e49bdf435590512215895e9e9b08 Let me look, I think I have the signal prints for the NKP at Oakland, Il. Steve Long Jerry Britton wrote: > On 12/1/99 12:40 PM, Bob (wahsatch@vaix.net) wrote: > > > Checking my 10/38 & 1/46 ORER's, the only interchange between the PRR > > & NKP is in Oakland, ILL, not PA. Also, my 3/69 Official Guide has a > > station for the PC and N&W at Oakland, Coles County, ILL. > > There are 2 junctions between the PRR & NKP in PA & are at Erie & > > Thornton Jct according to the ORER's. Thornton Jct is 78.0 miles from > > New Castle on the Erie & Ashtabula Div, (p352 5/1/45 PRR CT1000C) > > Tony updates his request: > > > Egads! I typed "Pa." > > > > My sincere apologies, Jerry. The town is Oakland, ILLINOIS, > > where the PRR crossed the NKP's St. Louis line. > > So, anyone have photos or other info on the PRR at Oakland, IL? > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:40:14 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Cary 13-156 air tanks for Bowser I1sa X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bcef4333cc547abe7d9c57d4679f79c6 Hello list, This is yet another installment in my ongoing I1sa saga. I decided to install Cary's 13-156 lost wax brass air tanks on my Bowser I1sa. They're a bit tricky to install; what follows is how I did this. By all means, if there's a better way, I'm all ears. The basic problem for me was finding a way to attach the pilots, air tanks, and front coupler in a durable manner, without resorting to violence. The frame surface and the pilot surface are at slightly different levels, which made it challenging to mount the air tanks level. I drilled holes in the front of each air tank for the air pipe; I used drill bit size 61. I had sawed off the brass sprue from the rear of each tank and filed it smooth. Next, I figured out that the rear mounting pin of each tank should be at the corner where the frame goes from full length and narrows down for the pilot casting. I drilled a number 50 hole at each corner. Next, I cut off the front mounting pin on each tank and filed things smooth. I plugged the forward screw hole in the frame with a length of Evergreen's styrene tubing. Next, I drilled and tapped for an 0-80 screw so I could secure my front coupler (a Kadee 5). Then, I used goo to secure the pilot to the frame. Now, for the air tanks. I added several strips of .020 styrene to make a level mounting pad for the air tanks. I used goo to secure the tank's remaining rear pins to the forward portion of the main frame, and super glue to secure the front of the tanks to the built up pilot. My final step was to use goo to mount the platform on top of the tanks and super glue to secure the air pipe to the tanks. The new tanks look nice, but they are certainly more challenging to install than the Bowser casting supplied in the kit. I am somewhat glad that I only want one I1sa. At the same time, they are not impossible! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:32:57 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ec1bddb3f2be8ef2a225ea916badf77b In a message dated 12/02/1999 2:12:05 PM Central Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << I ask those of you who might want these cars: Would you want an a car with no number or name, or would you rather take an undecorated car and start from scratch? >> How about a painted version with decals for 7-10 names, nombers? I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? 2-3 And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? 3-4 (This is theoretical, not an order!) << Another option, if the run is small enough, would be for "Merchandise Service" to finance the run of additional car names, available exclusively through MS. I want to avoid this if possible, but I'd like to see at least six total names available. Heck, I need at least 7 of the 8-2-1's myself! (Not to mention a bunch of 14 sections, 6-6's, and 28-1 parlors!) >> I think painted cars with decals would give you the solution for your needs .I would like to see the decals included even if the car costs a couple of buck more. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:43:58 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Pullman 8-1-2 Roster X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 73a7e3dfd479526047e07872d713308a Hello Jerry and List! Check out PENNSY JOURNAL VOL.I No. 2,pg 57. Lists 19 8-1-2 Hwt by name, no numbers.Also lists the rest of the Hwts. along with the Ltwts cars. Does this help? Pat McKinney PRRT&HS 1524 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:44:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bb6afa9b623262980be867d5c784353d In a message dated 12/2/1999 5:37:19 PM Central Standard Time, parkvarieties@provide.net writes: << The Branchine coach will be a single window NYC prototype for which Branchline indicates there were many very similar cars built for other railroads. >> Yeah, the non-SPFs out there deserve something a little closer to their home road favorite than a (n inaccurate) P70 in their colors. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 21:52:03 -0500 From: John Ryan Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Pullman 8-1-2 Roster X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a8ad7679779a5d3459ec51d902922775 All three of those car names (Centfaun, Centhill and Centwood) were cars owned by Pennsy. Other PRR 8-1-2's (Plan 3979A) were Bartram Oak, Council Oak, Fox Oaks, Pelham Oak (Andrew W. Mellon and Arthur Brisbane), Royal Oak, Salem Oak, Wadsworth Oak, Treaty Oak, Bear Oak, Black Oak, Gray Oak, Spanish Oak, Water Oak, White Oak, Willow Oak(Richard Beatty Mellon, George Westinghouse and Wadsworth Oak) and Yellow Oak. By my count that's 19 cars. All but the first three were built by Pullman for Pennsy. The first Wadsworth Oak was withdrawn from lease to Pullman in April 1956. All of the others except Fox Oaks made it into the 1960's. Fox Oaks was withdrawn from lease in November 1959. Jerry Britton wrote: > > In following up on my conversations with Branchline Trains, I was > investigating the roster of PRR 8-1-2 Pullmans. Guess what? Not much info > out there! > > Branchline has announced three car names: > Centhill > Centfaun > Centwood > > Now, for my own modeling, I did the study "24 Hours at Harrisburg". As of > that date in 1954, there were no less than 16 of these 8-1-2 cars specified > between the PRR's "Makeup of Trains" document and the Form 1 PT's. > > My next step was to looking into having "Merchandise Service" privately > market an additional few names through Branchline's custom printing service. > All I needed were additional valid car names. > > Some time ago, Gary Spear e-mailed me a roster of PRR Pullmans. I believe it > is web accessible at the PRRT&HS site as well. It obviously is not an "all > time" list, as it fails to mention two of the above cars and only names a > few others. The entire 8-1-2 roster from his list is: > 8600 Bartram Oak > 8602 Black Oak > 8604 Centhill > 8606 Council Oaks > 8608 Willow Oak > renamed Richard Beatty Mellon > renamed George Westinghouse > renamed Wadsworth Oak > > That's only five cars! Surely there were more than this! > > Plus, Gary's roster lists no instances of the 10-1-2 that Branchline is > doing. I found one -- 8699 El Monte (renamed Villa Royal) -- in the "PRR > Color Guide V. II". Surely there was more than this one! > > I suspect that Gary's roster was an "as of this date" type of thing. Or else > it is a "this is all I could find" deal. > > I am specifically looking for more roster info on the 8-1-2, if anyone can > help. Most helpful would be the car names and numbers that made it into > 1954. > > BTW: I recently purchased on eBay an ORIGINAL 1954 PRR Passenger Equipment > Register. The handwritten notes are priceless...showing when equipment was > sold off, converted, etc. Eventually it will get online! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:52:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Pullman 8-1-2 Roster X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b5025d70953b308fe3d83c3750a2f6be In a message dated 12/2/1999 6:50:46 PM Central Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << In following up on my conversations with Branchline Trains, I was investigating the roster of PRR 8-1-2 Pullmans. Guess what? Not much info out there! >> Good ol' Bob Reid's Pennsy Journal lists: Arthur Brisbane Bartram Oak Bear Oak Black Oak Centfaun Centhill Centwood Council Oak* Fox Oaks Gray Oak* George Westhinghouse (now there's a good one!) Royal Oak (nothing like a British battleship sunk in WWII at Scapa Flow by a U-boat) Salem Oak Spanish Oak Treaty Oak (another famous name) Wadsworth Oak Water Oak* White Oak* Yellow Oak* * cars renovated and received streamlining to exteriors Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:55:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0a4e9fb9ddd7d764ed55c1732a8b535c Rich, Thanks for the note. I have been in touch with several other PRR-Talk members and found this additional info. The 2 J's released in 1985 were as follows. J1 #6169 and J1a #6475, the 1992 runs were J1 #6464 and J1a #6489. It seems Key Imports changed a little bit of detailing on the 2 versions in each of the releases. In 1992 the J1#6464 had short sand lines, Notch Nose, No antenna and I believe the cast bar frame. The #6489 had short sand lines, No Notch nose, Tender antenna, and most likely the fabricated Loco frame. Both 1992 run tenders had straight upright coal boards. I am unsure of the details of the 1985 runs but I believe they are similar to the 1992 runs except that they had the long outside sand lines and angled tender coal boards. The painted versions had less oxide red on the tenders also. There could be more differences but I need to have all 4 locos side by side to compare. That is to expsenssive for me to do. I will have to do more research....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: M-497 gas turbine powered RDC Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:03:38 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 89a5af3d80bc9b1eed6253234f0383e9 Subject: M-497 gas turbine powered RDC From: "Craig Berndt" Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:32:44 -0500 Chris and list, I was with the PRR at the time, in charge of the Metroliner Training Program, and know Bob Watson very well. Bob's assessment of the NYC stunt with the M-497 in my opinion is most accurate. The Metroliners went on to perform a useful service to the traveling public. What did the M-497 go on to do, other than puff up Perlman's and NYC corporate ego? Perhaps the jet engine that was used to propel the car ended up as a snow blower. Regarding the Metroliner Training Program - we had 40 instructors from all of the operating crafts except MW. It was our mission to train all operating employees how to operate and maintain this new equipment. I intend to write an article for the Keystone about it, hopefully next year (2000). Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:25:29 EST Subject: [PRR] (no subject) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6d54bbbfb647521947e6c87f4ef4eb58 Hey Yuze Gize, A good friend of mine, Mark Kerlick, got this email message today and forwarded it to me. From what I understand Doyle plans to do the work at the Willamette and Pacific shops in Albany, OR, 28 miles south of Salem, OR. The trucks have been stored there for quite some time as is the prime mover. Todd and I have been by there a couple of times when he has made it out this way. Many don't know this but Doyle has an F-7 tucked away in the Brooklyn (ex-SP Portland) round house too as well as an RSD-5 in Nickel Plate paint. This will be a neat project to follow. Not from what I was told by the Road Forman of Engines (shop boss) both units will be re-powered and fully restored... I will get pictures. If someone comes across the car numbers let me know and I will trace them. Greg < Subject: [PRR] PRR Pullman 10-1-2 Roster X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2743b1b4cc0076502050887ffc59d5e3 Now for the 10-1-2's. Plan 2585 - Lemay, Lenape. Plan 2585A - Wiseburn. Plan 2585D - Marlowe, Robeson, Macatawa, Fort Ward, Cape Sable, Cedar Lane, Cedar Ledge, Cedar Springs, Long Cliff, Mount Union (wrecked before 1948), Newton Falls, North Grove, North Judson and North Vineland. Plan 3585 - Lake Arthur, Lake Charm, Lake Felicity, Lake Merritt, Lake Maitland, Lake Bennett, Lake Auburn, Lake Girard, Lake Mitchell, Lake Stearns and Lake Laura. Plan 3585A - Lake Constance and lake Tapps. I not sure how significant the different plan designations are. Plan 2585 cars were built between 1911 and 1923. Plan 3585 cars were built between 1923 and 1926. John Ryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 00:29:50 -0500 From: "David \\"Fresh\\" Freshwater" Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale Texas Eagle Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3936a3ac497d48e0d5b767745567bd2a Pages 92-93 of the PRRT&HS book “Penssylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering” discusses the “Texas Eagle” trains run by PRR, MP and the T&P. According to the book, PRR started its contribution to the train with eleven pre-war 10-5 sleepers in the CASCADE series. The pool cars, dates painted into the Texas Eagle scheme, and date repainted into PRR tuscan are: Cascade Bower 9/48 5/51 Cascade Cliff 10/48 2/51 Cascade Cove 9/48 9/50 Cascade Crag 8/48 11/50 Cascade Hollow 10/48 3/51 Cascade Mantle 7/48 12/50 Cascade Melody 7/48 5/51 Cascade Peak 8/48 12/50 Cascade Pinnacle 9/48 1/51 Cascade Pool 10/48 10/50 Cascade Slope 8/48 12/50 In 1950, ACF delivered eleven PRR EAGLE-series 10-6 cars. These replaced the CASCADES and covered the service until the end. They were repainted and renamed into the RAPIDS series between 10-62 and 6-65. The pool cars, dates painted into the Texas Eagle scheme, date repainted into PRR tuscan and new name are: Eagle Beam 8/50 2/65 Ligonier Rapids Eagle Bluff 8/50 10/62 Loyalhanna Rapids Eagle Charm 8/50 2/65 Perkiomen Rapids Eagle Chief 8/50 1/64 Park Rapids Eagle Cove 8/50 4/64 Loyalsock Rapids Eagle Eye 8/50 6/64 Dayton Rapids Eagle Grand 9/50 12/64 Wissahickon Rapids Eagle Head 9/50 3/63 Delaware Rapids Eagle Oak 9/50 4/64 Brandywine Rapids Eagle Park 9/50 7/65 Huntingdon Rapids Eagle Pass 9/50 8/64 Lycoming Rapids According to the description of who contributed what equipment, it appears that all the 14-4 EAGLE cars covering this train were contributed to the pool by MoPac. It doesn’t appear that T&P contributed any cars. Looks to me like the 10-6s are OK for PRR, but you’d have to do more research on whether there were 14-4s of the same plan elsewhere on PRR. Dave Freshwater N Scale SPF PRRT&HS 5630 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:43:45 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cc977627cd276d56e1e56e1545009a49 Jerry's request for Pullman info is timely. In the January 2000 Model Railroader, editor Andy Sperandeo in his At the Throttle column is seeking reader feedback concerning desired passenger car models. He makes the obvious point that there is no one doing for passenger cars what Red Caboose, Intermountain, P2K, and Kadee have done to upgrade the quality of freight car models. He does mention that there are manufacturers (yes, plural) making plans to get in the passenger car business, but progress is slow. Input can be made to passenger@mrmag.com in the following format: 1. Railroad 2. Era: prewar, 40's, 50's, 60's, etc. 3. Lightweight, heavyweight or both 4. Favorite name train Any additional comments can be made at the end. As SPF modelers several have already responded to Jerry's request. We should all respond to Sperandeo--MR has a LOT of impact in the hobby. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:47:10 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ac7050e24ab2746cbe4c90e524bb0679 Jerry--I would use three 8-1-2 and 10-1-2 Pullman sleepers. My first choice would be painted with stripes but no names, second choice undec. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 21:50:59 -0800 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale Texas Eagle Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f47bda445c84c1251d74b7be6e91e2cd Dave and the list, The car names in the RAPIDS series are the names assigned to the cars when the were repainted back to PRR tuscan. When they were in MP colors, they had names in the EAGLE series. These are listed in the PRR Passenger Car Painting and Lettering book that Dave mentioned--matched to the corresponding RAPIDS name, w/repaint dates, etc. Chuck Friedlein Chuck Friedlein David \"Fresh\" Freshwater wrote: > Pages 92-93 of the PRRT&HS book “Penssylvania Railroad Passenger Car > Painting and Lettering” discusses the “Texas Eagle” trains run by PRR, > MP and the T&P. > > According to the book, PRR started its contribution to the train with > eleven pre-war 10-5 sleepers in the CASCADE series. The pool cars, > dates painted into the Texas Eagle scheme, and date repainted into PRR > tuscan are: > > Cascade Bower 9/48 5/51 > Cascade Cliff 10/48 2/51 > Cascade Cove 9/48 9/50 > Cascade Crag 8/48 11/50 > Cascade Hollow 10/48 3/51 > Cascade Mantle 7/48 12/50 > Cascade Melody 7/48 5/51 > Cascade Peak 8/48 12/50 > Cascade Pinnacle 9/48 1/51 > Cascade Pool 10/48 10/50 > Cascade Slope 8/48 12/50 > > In 1950, ACF delivered eleven PRR EAGLE-series 10-6 cars. These > replaced the CASCADES and covered the service until the end. They were > repainted and renamed into the RAPIDS series between 10-62 and 6-65. > The pool cars, dates painted into the Texas Eagle scheme, date repainted > into PRR tuscan and new name are: > > Eagle Beam 8/50 2/65 Ligonier Rapids > Eagle Bluff 8/50 10/62 Loyalhanna Rapids > Eagle Charm 8/50 2/65 Perkiomen Rapids > Eagle Chief 8/50 1/64 Park Rapids > Eagle Cove 8/50 4/64 Loyalsock Rapids > Eagle Eye 8/50 6/64 Dayton Rapids > Eagle Grand 9/50 12/64 Wissahickon Rapids > Eagle Head 9/50 3/63 Delaware Rapids > Eagle Oak 9/50 4/64 Brandywine Rapids > Eagle Park 9/50 7/65 Huntingdon Rapids > Eagle Pass 9/50 8/64 Lycoming Rapids > > According to the description of who contributed what equipment, it > appears that all the 14-4 EAGLE cars covering this train were > contributed to the pool by MoPac. It doesn’t appear that T&P > contributed any cars. > > Looks to me like the 10-6s are OK for PRR, but you’d have to do more > research on whether there were 14-4s of the same plan elsewhere on PRR. > > Dave Freshwater > N Scale SPF > PRRT&HS 5630 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 08:58:25 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3171fb19d792e687f1b98eb81fbbe05f Here, here! 28-1 parlors!! :-)) How about 8-5's? Jerry, I like the idea of the unnamed cars. Perhaps BL could supply the decals or dry transfers with the kit to ease the color matching problem. Eventually I would probably want 2 of each 10 sec and 8 sec. So, is now the time to start unloading my old Walthers' cars on the unsuspecting ebay public? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > As many of you know, and others will now learn, Branchline Trains is working > on a series of highly detailed Pullman heavyweight cars in plastic, for > release next spring. > > These cars will be similar in quality to the phenomenal AAR 50' box cars > that just came out...known as the "Blueprint Series". > > The heavyweight line will initially consist of 8-1-2 sleepers, a coach, and > 10-1-2 sleepers. The coach is not a PRR prototype and thus is not offered in > PRR livery. > > Each of the sleepers will be available in three car names. I am in talks > (err, e-mails) with the product managers at Branchline about the possibility > of adding an additional unit of each: painted, lettered, but no car number > or name. The owner could then apply their own decals to finish the model. I > consider this a much better option than repainting the whole car or trying > to remove lettering and patch paint to match. > > The Branchline folks are worried that it is too difficult to match the > appearance of pad printing with an applied decal. My thought is that, with > dullcoat or weathering, the effect of a decal will be minimal. > > I ask those of you who might want these cars: Would you want an a car with > no number or name, or would you rather take an undecorated car and start > from scratch? > > I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? > And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? > (This is theoretical, not an order!) > > Another option, if the run is small enough, would be for "Merchandise > Service" to finance the run of additional car names, available exclusively > through MS. I want to avoid this if possible, but I'd like to see at least > six total names available. Heck, I need at least 7 of the 8-2-1's myself! > (Not to mention a bunch of 14 sections, 6-6's, and 28-1 parlors!) > > If anyone is interested, I am accepting Advance Reservations for all > available roadnames... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 09:08:08 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Pullman 8-1-2 Roster X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4204838faa380ba7d6eb74329f7b4434 Jerry, I know I have seen a much larger list in one of the Wayner publications. My Walthers 8-2-1 is named "Royal Oak". If I remember, I will check this weekend. However it will be a busy weekend. The Tech Model RR Club at MIT is having its Christmas Open House on Saturday. Spectacular urban scenery is happening. All are invited. Its free. We don't need money, were just showing off :-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > In following up on my conversations with Branchline Trains, I was > investigating the roster of PRR 8-1-2 Pullmans. Guess what? Not much info > out there! > > Branchline has announced three car names: > Centhill > Centfaun > Centwood > > Now, for my own modeling, I did the study "24 Hours at Harrisburg". As of > that date in 1954, there were no less than 16 of these 8-1-2 cars specified > between the PRR's "Makeup of Trains" document and the Form 1 PT's. > > My next step was to looking into having "Merchandise Service" privately > market an additional few names through Branchline's custom printing service. > All I needed were additional valid car names. > > Some time ago, Gary Spear e-mailed me a roster of PRR Pullmans. I believe it > is web accessible at the PRRT&HS site as well. It obviously is not an "all > time" list, as it fails to mention two of the above cars and only names a > few others. The entire 8-1-2 roster from his list is: > 8600 Bartram Oak > 8602 Black Oak > 8604 Centhill > 8606 Council Oaks > 8608 Willow Oak > renamed Richard Beatty Mellon > renamed George Westinghouse > renamed Wadsworth Oak > > That's only five cars! Surely there were more than this! > > Plus, Gary's roster lists no instances of the 10-1-2 that Branchline is > doing. I found one -- 8699 El Monte (renamed Villa Royal) -- in the "PRR > Color Guide V. II". Surely there was more than this one! > > I suspect that Gary's roster was an "as of this date" type of thing. Or else > it is a "this is all I could find" deal. > > I am specifically looking for more roster info on the 8-1-2, if anyone can > help. Most helpful would be the car names and numbers that made it into > 1954. > > BTW: I recently purchased on eBay an ORIGINAL 1954 PRR Passenger Equipment > Register. The handwritten notes are priceless...showing when equipment was > sold off, converted, etc. Eventually it will get online! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ---