Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 06:25:34 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: New Bright Christmas Train From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 556850c4f3bff1ea7c1e6a0862bb791e My father just recevied, as a gift, a decorative G scale train set designed for "under the Christmas tree" use. Supposedly there are additional cars available, but we can't locate the manufacturer...New Bright. Has anyone ever heard of this company or know how we might contact them? Thanks. > The Christmas train Gary & Peg got us (esp. Sandy) is called The Holiday > Express Animated Train Set made by New Bright (whoever that is). Carton is > marked No. 980, but brochure with it says 380/980 so I don't know what the > difference is. It came with the Engine, Wood Tender, Candy Pump Car, Caboose, > and they included a Bakery Car (jacobsons dept. store as part of the deal). > The brochure says a Santa's Water Tank Car and Santa's Log Mill Car are also > available. The train unit is a "G" gauge. > However there is no address, no nothing about New Bright or where or how to > order. Jacobson's brochure says they are $29 each but other than that, I can > find no info. With your train stuff knowledge, I was wondering if you had > access to, or ever heard of New Bright. I'd like to order those two extra > cars for her to complete set---'cause who knows, New Bright may not be around > to order from in the future, and the complete set probably would be worth > more later on. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BudPCCRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 08:57:18 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: H-10 tenders X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 16606d668bde78e0bd52c1599c72fcf8 I am looking for plans for H-10 tenders. I presently have an article from June54 MR on building one in O scale, and the NMRA library is sending the article from the spring 87 Keystone. Anyone know of any other resources? Thanks, Bud Brock ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:49:57 EST Subject: [PRR] Chicago Show items X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 84c178a364d120215fdb08e047d8fb1e www.onerrave.com (One Railroad Avenue) has a Chicago show report online already... with photos of the P2K 2-8-8-2, CB&T X29B, the Atlas GP40 Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 11:43:26 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg / CV Station From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 976ac515cb307872b7b2b2d6e7779d8c In the early annals of passenger traffic into Harrisburg, there was a union station shared by the PRR, the Northern Central Railway, the Cumberland Valley Railroad, and the Reading. Prior to the turn of the century, the PRR built its own station, shared with the NCRy. This is the building that remains today. The Reading (& Central of New Jersey) built their own station which was later razed in the early 1950's on the site that now is the post office. Even though the NCRy came into town over the CV's bridge and used the PRR's station, the CV built its own new station. It was a tiny, but several story structure which had a triangular base by the end of the curved Mulberry Street Bridge. Triumph II includes several views of this structure. One claims to be circa 1903. Others appear to be 1920's and 30's, based upon the types of passenger cars present. Does anyone know when this (Cumberland Valley) station was razed? I am specifically interested in knowing if it survived through 1954, the year that I am modeling. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:01:32 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Louisville and the PRR Arbegust Street Branch X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 66ea6260e8d9f4dd4d0cb026d85ef9df In a message dated 10/28/99 9:54:18 PM Mountain Standard Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: << but if you wanted to turn a T-1, it had to go on back across the bridge to a wye big enough to turn it. Might be an 8 mile round trip. >> Rick, A while ago I indicated that there was a wye at Clagg Tower to turn stuff as big as a T-1. That would be to use the IC connection between the PRR and their line to Water Street. This connected to the K&IT's river front line. Then down the K&IT's river front line to the K&IT connection back up to the PRR. After thinking about this a while I realized that the PRR could also head South down the L&N's leads from Union Station to one of three different wyes to turn. One being the wye at the L&N's "A" Street Tower. The second being the wye formed by the Monon and K&IT connections at Magnolia Street. The third would be at the L&N's South Louisville Shops where the L&N's Main Stem and Railway Transfer lines connected. This is where the L&N's Roundouse was. It sat inside this wye with the connection track running behind the roundhouse. These would all be viable options for the PRR to turn larger steam power on. What do you think? Stuart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 17:09:12 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New Titles From Withers From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f87522c9b667e9c645cce6bfc4d22ab1 Just passing on that I've received two new titles from Withers in stock: "Erie-builts and H20-44s" by Sweetland "Pennsy Electric Pictorial" by Zak & Withers. Both available in the eStore! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 17:19:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Holiday Super Sale! From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 73d643aa17c847bd0aeda519750d3a80 I've just posted our Holiday Super Sale to the eStore web site. Significant savings on Bowser locomotives, Digitrax DCC Starter Systems, Bethlehem Car Works scenery and horse cars, and Miracle Castings shells! See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:19:45 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2000 Y3's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6cdf4ada9a9ca82ac5a61d474cdd840e In a message dated 10/29/99 10:27:14 AM Mountain Standard Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: << Just seen some reports and photos of the new N&W USRA 2-8-8-2 (PRR HH1) as seen at the Chicago MR Industry show. Hopefully pictures don't lie but this is one unbelieveable looking plastic Loco. >> They don't lie. It is incredible. << The detail from the photos is stunning. >> That's a good way to describe it. << I also hope it runs as good as it looks and they are able to be found once they are released. >> They do run that good. I just got home from Chicago. I was there with Model Railroad News Magazine to cover the show, and I got to look at the new LL Y3A first hand. It is stellar! Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:21:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas SD-35 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 194c3276dbe72e473844ab3b19085256 In a message dated 10/29/99 11:30:17 AM Mountain Standard Time, shadow@dementia.org writes: << I thought only in N? >> That is correct. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:44:18 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2000 Y3's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ee41b413a8f01a299fb22e1ba3aadc44 >I just got home from Chicago. I was there with Model Railroad News Magazine >to cover the show, and I got to look at the new LL Y3A first hand. It is >stellar! > >Stuart Thayer Stuart et al., Did they mention, hint, or otherwise say anything about a PRR version????? that is, should I rush to buy the undec and detail it myself, or will they help us out here? BTW, definitely not "rivarossi" flanges...from the photos the flanges look very delicate. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:44:25 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas SD-35 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b196e1eeb46793d6052e5af671c5069d On Mon, 1 Nov 1999 Stuthayer@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/29/99 11:30:17 AM Mountain Standard Time, > shadow@dementia.org writes: > > << I thought only in N? >> > > > That is correct. In which case they can't get the paint wrong like last time, can they? I wasn't aware they had ever done an N scale SD35 to screw up, and the HO SD35 was actually done by Roco for Atlas, if you want to get technical about it. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:51:36 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: New Bright Christmas Train X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4f20c9cfa8051e3855679640d0844b1e >My father just recevied, as a gift, a decorative G scale train set designed >for "under the Christmas tree" use. Supposedly there are additional cars >available, but we can't locate the manufacturer...New Bright. Has anyone >ever heard of this company or know how we might contact them? Thanks. Jerry, Ah...relatives...my mother-in-law bought the set last year...each year apparently they release the set with new cars. This year, Walthers is advertising both the set ($179) and the additional cars ($31.98 each). How to describe the set???? well...gharish comes to mind however, it was EXACTLY what she wanted...Santa calls "all aboard" and "hohoho" the train has train sounds and every car is animated. Supposedly, each car comes with 2 pieces of track...I want to know if curved track is available. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2000 Y3's Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 18:36:26 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1215238f0b8a0b2f1984fd1098f7357c The quote from Life Like was "we are not planning on rerunning the 2-8-8-2 AT THIS TIME". I found it interesting that there was a gap in the sequential part numbers. Two numbers are missing. But, I believe that Virginian also had these locus. Dennis Mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES (732) 271-0800 Voice http://www.onerrave.com (732) 271-0805 FAX 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2000 Y3's >>I just got home from Chicago. I was there with Model Railroad News Magazine >>to cover the show, and I got to look at the new LL Y3A first hand. It is >>stellar! >> >>Stuart Thayer > >Stuart et al., > >Did they mention, hint, or otherwise say anything about a PRR version????? >that is, should I rush to buy the undec and detail it myself, or will they >help us out here? BTW, definitely not "rivarossi" flanges...from the >photos the flanges look very delicate. > >Happy Rails >Bruce > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > >There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry > >PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | > |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 16:50:07 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] PRR Cabin Car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 042a3f3cde5b345a1ceeba125dcdfff1 Hi, I thought some Listers might enjoy seeing the restored 1929 PRR wood, cupola, cabin car at . Enjoy, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:48:10 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] About the Athearn (Highliner) F unit paint X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 637c3415965d50827f6e2080149b76ae Here's what Athearn says: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:27:40 EST From: Athearn@aol.com To: shadow@dementia.org Subject: Re: [D] anyone have contacts at Athearn? [excerpted text snipped] You're right. Those are MS decals, and are tooooo big. We'll have them right when produced. Now YOU have a contact at Athearn. John Engstrom Athearn, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BCFDevd@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:06:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: New Bright Christmas Train X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 788de3190e89b7701f6848af4b84b5cc In a message dated 11/01/1999 6:37:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << My father just recevied, as a gift, a decorative G scale train set designed for "under the Christmas tree" use. Supposedly there are additional cars available, but we can't locate the manufacturer...New Bright. Has anyone ever heard of this company or know how we might contact them? Thanks. >> I purchased a set a few years ago. I got the extra cars through my local hobby shop and I have also seen them at the local train show. From what I hear , this years car will be the last one ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jwgotaskie@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:14:52 EST Subject: [PRR] GLCA Question X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6f98c26a0155ac7a73ff25a0795032e8 With regards to the question about build dates for GLCA, the PRR began rebuilding GLC cars to class GLCA in 1941. Apparently the only difference was the addition of AB brakes and a power hand brake. According to the Westerfield documentation, all GLC's were rebuilt by 1950. One would have to browse the ORER's for that time period to try to guess which cars were done each year! Have fun! Joe ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 07:19:05 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] GLCA Question X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b96a6ce6082fb1438c110451cdd8efee The history of the GLCA is a bit easier to follow, if punctuated Pennsy style: All cars are a subclass and "follow on" of the GL. They were originally GL or GLa and were converted to GLc and then Modified to GLca The lower case letters help in the understanding. The classification of much later USRA hopper as GLd was, I believe, a PRR swipe at USRA technology. Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 08:10:12 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Cabin Car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 71622415e05b9f7570801d7af977bad5 >Hi, > >I thought some Listers might enjoy seeing the restored 1929 PRR wood, >cupola, cabin car at . > >Enjoy, Roger Hi All, For the sake of speed and ease of finding it...the complete URL is: http://www.rypn.org/Briefs/November1999/991101.htm and scroll to the bottom of the page. Ok, refresh my memory...what class is this cabin???? It certainly doesn't appear to be an N-6b...Is this an N6A, NDA, or the elusive N4? It is clearly a modified bobber due to the close-set side windows... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 09:52:39 -0500 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Cabin Car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0801dc10aef117e89e74eceaca23f8fe "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I thought some Listers might enjoy seeing the restored 1929 PRR wood, > >cupola, cabin car at . > > > >Enjoy, Roger > > Hi All, > > For the sake of speed and ease of finding it...the complete URL is: > http://www.rypn.org/Briefs/November1999/991101.htm and scroll to the bottom > of the page. > > Ok, refresh my memory...what class is this cabin???? It certainly doesn't > appear to be an N-6b...Is this an N6A, NDA, or the elusive N4? > > It is clearly a modified bobber due to the close-set side windows... > > Happy Rails > Bruce Took a look at the picture. I have no knowledge of variations for Pennsy cabins. I saw a similar caboose on Rt. 50 on the Eastern Shore about 7 years painted the bright red of N&W. Could it be that some SPF painted an old N&W or C&O cabin?? Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 08:15:05 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] PRR Cabin Car Humor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 497b605f68199961f7f3f308b66d45fe Tom & Listers, Most of you took my little Delmar joke well. Thank you! The fake PRR caboose is C&O 90951/B&O 90951. Sad to see this in an "historical" display. Cheers, Roger ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 10:21:49 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Cabin Car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 02b3307859bd9de1c3db5df0dae2dd1f Pure speculation, but Delmar was the northern terminus of the old NYP&N.Since this was 1929 and shortly after NYP&N was merged into the main PRR, could this be a rebuild of a older NYP&N cabin? AJ Cassatt did most things in PRR fashion but not everything. The basic structure looks very PRRish. JimMcDaniel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kollar, Kris" Subject: FW: [PRR] PRR Cabin Car Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 10:23:36 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3802dbf261b1bff98eb28402b723e17c This doesn't seem to be a PRR cabin car. Although its similar looking to an N6A the cupola is wrong because its sides should be flush with the walls of the cabin. The steps appear to be appropriate for an N5 but not an N6. The N6 had wooden steps. Any other comments? > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Mahon [SMTP:tmahon@cfnh.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 9:53 AM > To: PRR Talk > Cc: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Cabin Car > > "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > > > >Hi, > > > > > >I thought some Listers might enjoy seeing the restored 1929 PRR wood, > > >cupola, cabin car at . > > > > > >Enjoy, Roger > > > > Hi All, > > > > For the sake of speed and ease of finding it...the complete URL is: > > http://www.rypn.org/Briefs/November1999/991101.htm and scroll to the > bottom > > of the page. > > > > Ok, refresh my memory...what class is this cabin???? It certainly > doesn't > > appear to be an N-6b...Is this an N6A, NDA, or the elusive N4? > > > > It is clearly a modified bobber due to the close-set side windows... > > > > Happy Rails > > Bruce > > Took a look at the picture. I have no knowledge of variations for Pennsy > cabins. I saw a similar caboose on Rt. 50 on the Eastern Shore about 7 > years > painted the bright red of N&W. Could it be that some SPF painted an old > N&W or > C&O cabin?? > > Tom Mahon > Merrimack, NH > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 11:55:29 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Cabin Car Humor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fc7567d4a5ef39eaa73c6e0e35fdd7ab In a message dated 11/2/99 9:25:47 AM Central Standard Time, caboose@chaffee.net writes: << Most of you took my little Delmar joke well. Thank you! The fake PRR caboose is C&O 90951/B&O 90951. Sad to see this in an "historical" display. >> I was trying to think of a polite, gentle comment after observing the website. At least I did guess C&O/B&O. I agree it is sad. But it is amazing what floats some people's boats. In our club we face an opportunity to have a "Park" gauge RR. Opportunity to have an old narrow gauge industrial Diesel. People want to put fake plywood boilers and cowcatchers on it to haul passenger-carrying cars. Others of us appreciate it for what it is in its genuine state. Less is more, form follows function. It is a genuine historical piece which can and should stand on its own and will be fun to restore and operate. I am hoping we will win the battle. Tangent to PRR-Talk, but appropriate to any of us who have an opportunity to try and preserve something from the past. And,appropos of the caboose, there is undoubtedly a frustrated C&O/B&O fan out there looking for preserved cabooses. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 12:14:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR] What Do YOU Want At The 2000 Convention From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1a2e130c936702b005e9b26325597d1d In a week and a half, I will be attending a planning session for the next PRRT&HS Convention, to be held in Camp Hill, Pa., May 4-6, 2000. With any criticisms of prior conventions aside, what types of seminars/events would you like to see? For those who know the area, suggestions for tours are also welcome. Displays of modular layouts (mostly N) are already in the works, and I am looking into a private open house at the Keystone Model Railroad Historical Society (http://kmrhs.pennsyrr.com) in nearby Mechanicsburg. Their HO layout requires 15 minutes for a train to get all the way around! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 14:02:26 -0600 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] What Do YOU Want At The 2000 Convention X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4212a37e890faf070c15e8f7975031de Hi Jerry: I would like to see some fine home layouts on tour, even if it means a little travel. Several years ago, at the convention in Wilmington, buses were chartered to take us to two very fine home layouts. Maybe I'm alone, but to me, this was the best part of the convention. So many SPF's are serious model railroaders, and like to enjoy the works of other individuals in the hobby. Pennsy layouts would be the preference, but there are other RR's out there too, I think? Regards, Larry Jerry Britton wrote: > In a week and a half, I will be attending a planning session for the next > PRRT&HS Convention, to be held in Camp Hill, Pa., May 4-6, 2000. > > With any criticisms of prior conventions aside, what types of > seminars/events would you like to see? > > For those who know the area, suggestions for tours are also welcome. > > Displays of modular layouts (mostly N) are already in the works, and I am > looking into a private open house at the Keystone Model Railroad Historical > Society (http://kmrhs.pennsyrr.com) in nearby Mechanicsburg. Their HO layout > requires 15 minutes for a train to get all the way around! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 16:43:55 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: [PRR] MP-54s in HO X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5334f283cecde807777a73bd292ce81a Have you folks noticed the small classified ad in MR for HO resin MP-54 kits!! The company has a web site at www.bcity.com/ewchase. -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:50:43 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] PRR cabin car ,new use for a Bowser tender ? and such X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1e459043fc6749ea9a3f3a310ab82d65 Hi All.... Hmmm ok i'll add this to the joke chat... Since the B&O was partly owned by the PRR near the turn of the century and there were B&O 2-8-0's built to the PRR H-6 designs...is it possible that some B&O cabin cars were adopted from PRR designs...? Now to the Bowser tender... Ok a lot of us have had and seen the old tender that Bowser (and Penn Line before them) have used on the H-9 and E-6 kits...And over the years we all have pretty much come to the conclusion that this tender is of no use to most of us. But while studying some pictures of both the I-1s with their original tenders and the Bowser tender i wonder that if you added the upper steel coal board as it is on the original I-1s types if this tender could be adapted as a I-1s original type tender. Something to think about. Also...while researching for B-6sb numbers...I noticed something odd about the oil fired B-6sb No. 5267. In Vol.28 No. 1 of the Keystone there is mention of it inside the from cover which says that it was dropped from equipment records in 1947. Then in Vol.31 No. 4 in the "Last Gasp" article about the last engine to operate (No. 5244) it lists the engines that were leased to Union Transportation and in 1953 and 1954 it lists No. 5267 the oil fired engine. Is this article wrong? if so..where was it between 1947 and 1953? inquiring minds want to know. Does dropped from records (in Vol.28 No.1)mean from the Maryland Div. records...or all PRR equipment records? Anyone know? Have fun... Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:10:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MP-54s in HO From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e9b93e811bc2fb4412ae90a113c3d58d On 11/2/99 4:43 PM, Andy Miller at (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > Have you folks noticed the small classified ad in MR for HO resin MP-54 > kits!! > The company has a web site at www.bcity.com/ewchase. And there's another player coming on the market in a few weeks! ;-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:15:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] What Do YOU Want At The 2000 Convention From: "Eugene Nowlan" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 833f5e216ab37d5f1c2f0c6bd151a98f Operating sessions on one or more layouts would seem to me to be appropriate with special emphasis on new operators. -- Gene Nowlan Corning, NY USA ---------- >From: Jerry Britton >To: PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: [PRR] What Do YOU Want At The 2000 Convention >Date: Tue, Nov 2, 1999, 12:14 PM > > In a week and a half, I will be attending a planning session for the next > PRRT&HS Convention, to be held in Camp Hill, Pa., May 4-6, 2000. > > With any criticisms of prior conventions aside, what types of > seminars/events would you like to see? > > For those who know the area, suggestions for tours are also welcome. > > Displays of modular layouts (mostly N) are already in the works, and I am > looking into a private open house at the Keystone Model Railroad Historical > Society (http://kmrhs.pennsyrr.com) in nearby Mechanicsburg. Their HO layout > requires 15 minutes for a train to get all the way around! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:21:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] ...2000 Convention Lunch w/Officers From: "Eugene Nowlan" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7d108ac7e4a9f0f9113f73ffc73a55a4 Breakfast and/or lunch at tables of 4-8 with one officer per table would be a good way to become acquainted (break the ice) with our officers. Maybe pad the price to cover their meal. -- Gene Nowlan Corning, NY USA ---------- >From: Jerry Britton >To: PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: [PRR] What Do YOU Want At The 2000 Convention >Date: Tue, Nov 2, 1999, 12:14 PM > > In a week and a half, I will be attending a planning session for the next > PRRT&HS Convention, to be held in Camp Hill, Pa., May 4-6, 2000. > > With any criticisms of prior conventions aside, what types of > seminars/events would you like to see? > > For those who know the area, suggestions for tours are also welcome. > > Displays of modular layouts (mostly N) are already in the works, and I am > looking into a private open house at the Keystone Model Railroad Historical > Society (http://kmrhs.pennsyrr.com) in nearby Mechanicsburg. Their HO layout > requires 15 minutes for a train to get all the way around! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:25:30 -0600 From: "Dr. George Pierson" Subject: [PRR] Triumph II X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c74e14c16840c87602b8dae884a03b40 Hi, all, Just got my copy of TRIUMPH II by David Messer over the weekend and have not had time to digest it much more than look through the photos. At that level alone, it is pretty good. Sadly, the experience was spoiled by reading the final section by Roberts. To paraphrase a famous ad, "How do you spell EGO? R-O-B-E-R-T-S" Now that I've said it, I want to raise a deeper issue. It appears likely that the succeeding volumes of the TRIUMPH series will eventually appear and IMHO may just end up being (for better or worse) the only book-length treatments of the PRR of this sort that we will all live to see. In other words, these are likely to become the standard works. Now I (like many on this list) happen to have a few small details about the PRR (in my case, the Middle Division) which may prove useful to pass on the publisher for future TRIUMPHS, the object being to make these (possibly difinitive) works more complete and accurate. To this end, I have actually been in contact with the person working on the Middle Div book. But I was stopped cold by seeing once again evidence of Roberts' approach to editing and his astonishing commentary at the end of the book. I am frankly not sure I wish to be associated (even if only in a very small way) with this type of publication. I thought that the reaction to TRIUMPH I might temper Mr. Roberts but such appears not to have happened. What do you say, folks? Should we all help make the TRIUMPH series even better and overlook Mr. Roberts? Or should we boycott this publisher and wait (possibly a long time) to contribute to a more mature and professional approach to the PRR's history? While you're pondering this I will be buying a new flame-retardent outfit to wear. George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 10:02:13 -0600 From: Richard Wallis Subject: Re: [PRR] Triumph II X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7cfae5ffda8507f93af95bf88e43530d Dr. George Pierson wrote: > It appears > likely that the succeeding volumes of the TRIUMPH series will eventually > appear and IMHO may just end up being (for better or worse) the only > book-length treatments of the PRR of this sort that we will all live to > see. In other words, these are likely to become the standard works. Dear George, NO, NO, NO, NO, please NO. First, there is always more to discover; more scholarship to do. Second, the Pennsylvania cries out for a more coherent and inclusive interpretive overview, especially in view of the present standard's (B&K) lack of depth and analysis. And lastly, we simply cannot let a B&O guy have the last say. So, research and write on fellow railroad enthusiasts. Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:16:30 EST Subject: [PRR] Quality Craft's PRR Interlocking Tower in HO Scale X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2fd79968e60d34566d67ef33f9e10efb Hi Guys, Is anyone familiar with a HO Scale PRR Interlocking Tower by Quality Craft? If so, could you provide any particulars concerning authenticity, difficulty in building, availability and price. I've searched around for one but, can't find one listed anywhere. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 14:31:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Quality Craft's PRR Interlocking Tower in HO Scale From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 640102b77693e10941ada03da700041a On 11/3/99 2:16 PM, Eichhorn@aol.com (Eichhorn@aol.com) wrote: > Is anyone familiar with a HO Scale PRR Interlocking Tower by Quality Craft? > If so, could you provide any particulars concerning authenticity, difficulty > in building, availability and price. I've searched around for one but, can't > find one listed anywhere. > Any help would be greatly appreciated. I could be wrong, but it sounds suspiciously like you saw said item for sale on eBay! To the balance of the list: Wasn't Quality Craft the predecessor to Gloor Craft...and wasn't this modeled after JACKS tower at Spruce Creek? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Quality Craft's PRR Interlocking Tower in HO Scale Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:38:02 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8172d68fa06308081db548a37dd55499 George; The tower is based on the Jack's tower at Jack's Narrows, Pa. I have not checked the exact dimensions of the tower but it does look like the prototype. I believe that it has a central "bay window" that sticks out the front side of the tower. I think that I have seen other PRR towers of similar design and layout. Does anybody know if the Jacks tower is unique or if it was based on a standard design and was using at other locations? I have an unbuilt model and I am planning in building it someday. I have seen them on Ebay occassionally so I would suggest to keep looking there, onw will eventually show up. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: Eichhorn@aol.com [mailto:Eichhorn@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 2:17 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Quality Craft's PRR Interlocking Tower in HO Scale Hi Guys, Is anyone familiar with a HO Scale PRR Interlocking Tower by Quality Craft? If so, could you provide any particulars concerning authenticity, difficulty in building, availability and price. I've searched around for one but, can't find one listed anywhere. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 14:58:04 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Quality Craft's PRR Interlocking Tower in HO Scale X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8992dc81ec351975014db586ed1b7ea8 Jerry Britton wrote: > To the balance of the list: Wasn't Quality Craft the predecessor to Gloor > Craft...and wasn't this modeled after JACKS tower at Spruce Creek? Greetings to Jerry and the list: It was modeled after Jacks tower at Mount Union, Pa. Spruce tower, at Spruce Creek, was about half the size of Jacks. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@prodigy.net 1 John 5:11-12 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 15:09:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Quality Craft's PRR Interlocking Tower in HO Scale From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e9a83226cba4d0a54bce97aeabfce037 On 11/3/99 2:58 PM, Dan Cupper (Cupper@prodigy.net) wrote: > Jerry Britton wrote: > >> To the balance of the list: Wasn't Quality Craft the predecessor to Gloor >> Craft...and wasn't this modeled after JACKS tower at Spruce Creek? > > Greetings to Jerry and the list: > > It was modeled after Jacks tower at Mount Union, Pa. Spruce tower, at > Spruce Creek, was about half the size of Jacks. Okay, so I need to put my mind in gear before my fingers. I knew what I meant...JACKS tower is at Jacks Narrows (basically Mount Union), of course! (Had the tower ID right!) --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 15:18:30 EST Subject: [PRR] USRA 2-8-8-2 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 376b790ae8298782c91ee22ed0d2c021 Folks, MTH has issued a RailKing version of a USRA designed 2-8-8-2 for the PRR. This sparked my curiosity about the prototype. My questions are: 1. Was this really used by the PRR? If so, for how long? When? 2. How many were used and where would they have been found? 3. What type of freight did it primarily haul? Thanks, George Pandelios Modeling the PRR around Weirton, WV between 1948-1957. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Quality Craft's PRR Interlocking Tower in HO Scale Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 15:27:53 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e3e5e65ad44223681e6f2da62a747809 Listers, The Quality Craft Tower is now made by Gloor Craft. It is pretty easy to get. The Strasburg Train Shop usually has 4 or 5 in stock. It is a model of Jacks Tower and is pretty easy to build. It was reviewed in the Keystone along time ago. I believe the only error was that the real tower's chimmney goes up the back wall and th model tower's mounts on the roof. Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:21:19 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Quality Craft's PRR Interlocking Tower in HO Scale X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 386ad2043f189a43993aff3a2b7b3936 Hi again guys, Many thanks to all who responded to my question. Now, that I know what I am really looking for, I believe that I have found a few sources. Thanks again, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:26:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] RE: (PRR) Quality Craft Tower X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 648cf17418d78376a8a06dabfef1e35c George, List, I have built several of these towers for future use on the layout. The first one was built from their instructions. Yes the chimmney is in the wrong location. If you have built wood kits before this uses the same technques. The second kit I built is a little different. Instead of having two identical towers in my collection, I modified this one. I substituted the first floor with a brick one. It looks completely different now. I have a picture of it at this url. http://www.geocities.com/k4-5389/tower.JPG Bad photo but you can see the difference if you are familiar with the way the orginial kit builds. I did replace the chimmney with a styrene chimmeny that runs up the back. I Still have to finish a little more detail on the whole thing. It kinda looks like Huntington Tower but only smaller. Overall it captures a PRR look...Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:50:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Quality Craft's PRR Interlocking Tower in HO Scale X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 820602b99a5d95ba1c784c3d0df29703 Jerry. You mean JACKS tower at Mt. Union. SPRUCE at Spruce Creek. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 17:18:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Triumph II X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 69626ff8aba17335a968a1260811ca5f George, Just what is that Roberts says this time? I haven't seen this book and am waiting for the Philley Terminal volume basiclly. But I've seen previous commentary on Roberts earlier work and understand he's not as much of a Pennsy fan as some others I've met. Being a B&O fan is much in his favor, but he seems to take the "I-love-redheads-so-I-hate-blondes" stance. Never could understand that, seeing as how they're both great railroads. What gives? regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 17:52:55 EST Subject: [PRR] "O" Scalers and "O" Guagers: Xmas is comming! X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 11002065fac8e29ba00a0c3e8bba1603 The new "O-27" three rail Pennsy H-10 starter set from MTH is a thing of beauty - Though NOT scale it has a decent, diecast and HEAVY H-10 Consolidation with lights, smoke, electronic sound, (air pump hissing steam and chuffing, keyed to speed) bell, whistle a "proto coupler" that will uncouple anywhere on the layout and an N-5 Porthole Caboose. The two freight cars are "wrong" for PRR - an offset side hopper and a generic box car with "too new" lettering, but hey, this is a great 3 rail starter set, with a circle of MTH O-31 track and a power pack, lighted lock-on etc. Worth a trip to your Lionel Dealer to see, and if you have kids, to buy for $280 "MSRP" or less. While you're there check out the MTH Rail King Crane: it IS a scale piece, at under $ 50.00, (none lettered PRR - yet) the Jordan Spreader, the wedge snowplow - and even the powered and lighted Rotary (yes I know, Pennsy never had them) BE SURE TO SEE the "Premier" (scale) N-8, with antennas, wire handrails and even a "little guy" in the cupola. Both Lionel and MTH are cataloging a scale PRR E-6s Atlantic: Lionel also has a K-4. Some Dealers may even have the MTH O-27 PRR Doodlebug. Buy 'em for your kids - or Grandkids - and hide 'em, hope they leave 'em behind when they grow up ! Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] "O" Scalers and "O" Guagers: Xmas is comming! Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 18:22:14 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f2d5e4734ab4d173423f8cc1225fef0a What about the MTH Premier Centipedes? Will these arrive before Christmas? I'm an HO-scaler, and know very little about O, but I have a few questions. My Uncle is an O collector/operator. Most of his stuff is from the 40's and 50's, but he also has some modern stuff. Anyway, I'm thinking of getting him a loco for Christmas. The Centipedes may be a bit steep, but the Chicago CTA 4 car subway set looks good. Now for my questions. The transformer my Uncle uses is also 50's vintage. Will MTH locos equipped with Protosmoke and/or Proto-Sound work with this type of controller? What about proto-coupler? Thanks, Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 19:46:08 EST Subject: [PRR] New Life-Like 2-8-8-2 Photos and Specs. X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 33b89582f4c3b1e421dc9f87002f45b1 Hi Guys, Take a look at the Life-Like Products Home Page. New 2-8-8-2 photos and specs. http://www.lifelikeproducts.com/ Regards, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 21:03:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] ICC Investigation reports? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f22e72a017198097526d0439fd2b9e73 List, Is there anywhere on the net where you can do research on past railroad accidents? I have a investigation report number for an accident that happened on the PRR in Burgettstown, Pa in Feb. 1949. There was an article in the Keystone Spring 1994? issue that covers this wreck. It involved an M1 caboose hop and a mail train powered by 2 E-7s. I would like too see if there is more info about it in the files of the ICC. Is there such a place on the web to find this info....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 21:21:28 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] L&N cars painted PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 71ee8c58bdbfea832b969327374f0fea Rick and All, In the newly published book from MORNING SUN "Trackside with Charles Spear" by my friend Ed Derouin, we found two photos of the L&N 10-6 sleeper in Chicago, IL in both the PRR paint and blue paint. They were shot in the early sixties. Great book! Greg Martin RickTipton@aol.com writes: << "L&N cars BARREN RIVER, GREEN RIVER, and KENTUCKY RIVER arrived in the latter half of 1949 and matched the Pennsy's Tuscan red RAPIDS-series sleepers in color and configuration. They also shared car lines with them on hte routes fromNew York to L&N points. Color pictures of any of the three RIVER cars in Tuscan are particularly rare." >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] St. Louis Union Station in 1999 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 00:41:01 -0500 (EST) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6043411b708b3b47a37cc9d55e458abd Any of you gents that have not been to St. Louis, you really need to check out the renovation that's been done to St. Louis Union Station. It is truly amazing. A most impressive piece of work. The headhouse contains part of the Hyatt Regency hotel, including reception desk and restaurant. The main waiting room with its barrel-vault ceiling contains an elevated section with seating where one may enjoy a drink or two with friends. Below, the concourse (they call it the "midway") contains shops of every ilk. Part of the headhouse is conference rooms and the like, part is hotel rooms (the very expensive ones). But the most amazing thing is the train shed. The entire thing remains intact, all 42 tracks' (if memory serves) width. About half its width is taken up by the remainder of the Hyatt, where a little sign on the door informs you of the $320 maximum charge per room. (THe "business rate" for our conference was a mere $115 single.) The other half of the width is more of the mall, which is 2 levels almost all the way, with a 3rd level at the far end. Then one exits the mall and discovers that the train shed is only half covered, half open. AND ... one discovers that one has traversed only 1/3 to 1/2 its length!! THe remainder half-covers a 1-acre artificial lake, a seafood joint "on the lake", and a parking lot. At the end of the trainshed are 2 double signal bridges, fully intact, though with the signals having been replaced by individual letter-signs spelling out S T L O U I S U N I O N S T A T I O N, and lights to illuminate the letters at night. As if this were not enough, some 4 or 5 additional signal bridges remain, scattered in the parking lots and elsewhere. REading Terminal was/is big, and Broad St. Stn. was big. But those are to SLUS as Ajax was to Achilles. There is no comparison. And to think that Chicago could have had an even larger one, had an all-encompassing union station ever been built there. The tower that controlled the entrance still stands, though it is fully gutted. It once housed a 304-lever US&S machine, according to the historical narrative markers (16 or 18 of them) in the station/mall. In other Pennsy Lines Way Way West: WILLOWS tower is still standing and operational, though the plant has been simplified from 1986, the last I was there. THe area is no better, tho. THe main line across Illinois is reasonably busy, still single track with passing sidings. THere is even one lap siding! There is rumor that the Effigham station (IC crossing) may come down. Otherwise, not an awful lot to report. I saw the location where the NYC was cut over to the PRR in Terre Haute: a much sharper curve than I would have anticipated. I'm surprised another, better location could not have been found, e.g., NYC to PRR T.H.--Logansport line, then PRR through town. HALEY (not a PRR tower) has been moved for preservation, and that interlocking (C&EI, NYC) is now completely different. ON my outbound leg, I followed the Fort Wayne briefly. There appear to have been no changes since the NS takeover of part of that line in the early part of this decade. Saw more NS trains on it than CSX trains: is this merely an indication of NS congestion, or of something different? WIth CSX having gotten the Fort Wayne, one would have thought that NS would have double-tracked the parallel NKP, to gain the benefit they gained by buying that portion of the Fort Wayne, but the former has not (yet) happened. At Hobart, where NKP veers away from PRR, and where NS had cut the Ft.W. and turned it west into NKP, this action has been undone. The Goshen Branch still has PRR signals on it. Is this the only nonPRR nonLIRR line to have had position lights installed? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 13:53:52 -0500 From: jpbtrans Subject: [PRR] Peoria, Ill. X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1753d8c33147ad5dba7ff5122894cb75 Hello all, I have a question maybe someone can help me with. Did the PRR ever go to Peoria, either on their own track or by trackage rights? If they did, where did their track branch from the St. Louis main, or if by TR where did the rights start. city, tower, junction names? Thank you for your help. Jon Anderson (jpb trans@gateway.net) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:42:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 92ae2e92bcda541a8263f52281a8bd5b List, Not being much of a diesel modeler this question goes out to those who are. Did either of the 2 PRR SD-7's or any of the 25 PRR SD-9's have the antenna system applied? I can't seem to come up with many pictures of these locos and the ones I can find do not have antenna.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:23:51 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 67be9cb81907c8fddfe31ca22895c1ee -----Original Message----- From: Andrews, Ted Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 3:22 PM To: 'mittner@webtv.net' Subject: RE: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day Gary: I believe that the SD-7's were not delivered with trainphone antennas. I also do not think that they were ever equipped with them after delivery. The SD-9's are a different story. From what I can tell, these too were not delivered with trainphone antennas. However, some were equipped with the antennas by the PRR sometime after delivery. Which SD-9's were involved and the time frame they had the inductive antennas are the $64,000 questions. I know of one photo (in the 1997-98 PRRT&HS book on Conway Yard/Pittsburgh area) that shows #7614 (I think) with them. I posted this same question on the list almost a year ago but I did not get any leads. Hopefully someone has dug up some new info. since then. Hope this helps! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 2:43 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day List, Not being much of a diesel modeler this question goes out to those who are. Did either of the 2 PRR SD-7's or any of the 25 PRR SD-9's have the antenna system applied? I can't seem to come up with many pictures of these locos and the ones I can find do not have antenna.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:46:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f604c8e02e89c73964b1b79687c071ec In a message dated 11/04/1999 2:52:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: > > Not being much of a diesel modeler this question goes out to those > who are. Did either of the 2 PRR SD-7's or any of the 25 PRR SD-9's have > the antenna system applied? I can't seem to come up with many pictures > of these locos and the ones I can find do not have antenna.....Gary > None of these were equipped with induction trainphones. The 2 SD-7 were restricted to Madison Hill, INdiana -- no train phone territory. All of the SD-9 were hump control equipped and intended for hump service and did not have train phones nor dynamic brakes. The SD-7 were dynamice brake equipped. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 17:51:00 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Peoria, Ill. X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 475aa3c12b50add1bd8b39623f913c66 This is so easy, the exit from the st. Louis div. was Farrington, Il. not far from the In-Il state line. PRR reached Peoria by way of Paris, Arcola, Decatur, Atlanta, to Farmdale Jct.(NKP) then P&PU across the river to Peoria. Farrington sits 7.9 miles west of Terre Haute Union Station , or what was. A depot still exists at Oakland, but was moved just off the railroad property. The whole thing was gone by mid 80's , was ran for a short time from Paris as Prarie Central but went belly up. It was ran as the Wabash Valley Railroad by MKO. The bridges still exist across the Embaras river. For a long time Vigo tower(Terre Haute) handled the manual block for the Peoria branch then was transfered to Preston tower(Terre Haute) then Midland at Paris. I have the register book for when it handled by Preston. I can give you more info in a week, I got to do minutes for now. jpbtrans wrote: > Hello all, > > I have a question maybe someone can help me with. Did the PRR ever go to > Peoria, either on their own track or by trackage rights? If they did, > where did their track branch from the St. Louis main, or if by TR where > did the rights start. city, tower, junction names? Thank you for > your help. > > Jon Anderson (jpb trans@gateway.net) > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Train phones. Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:36:53 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 414ca58f9570b934504284dbd5be1ae1 I am pretty sure that after a certain date, about the time of the GP-9 deliveries, PRR decided to forgo any further purchase of inductive train phone equipment from Union Switch and Swindle. However, you will note that the GP-30s, U-25bs and indeed the fabled 2415 even had an antenna! That is because they yanked the equipment off of trade-in locomotives and when they yanked the Centipedes there was more than enough antennae to go around. Pennsy dabbled into a bunch of different radio systems, mostly in yards like Camden and Chicago but because the radios didn't work in tunnels, they were against purchasing radios for road service. Finally when the GP-35s were delivered, the other shoe dropped and they made the plunge into radio equipment. -----Original Message----- From: Andrews, Ted To: 'PRR-Talk' Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 3:34 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Andrews, Ted >Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 3:22 PM >To: 'mittner@webtv.net' >Subject: RE: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day > > >Gary: > >I believe that the SD-7's were not delivered with trainphone antennas. I >also do not think that they were ever equipped with them after delivery. > >The SD-9's are a different story. From what I can tell, these too were not >delivered with trainphone antennas. However, some were equipped with the >antennas by the PRR sometime after delivery. Which SD-9's were involved and >the time frame they had the inductive antennas are the $64,000 questions. I >know of one photo (in the 1997-98 PRRT&HS book on Conway Yard/Pittsburgh >area) that shows #7614 (I think) with them. > >I posted this same question on the list almost a year ago but I did not get >any leads. Hopefully someone has dug up some new info. since then. > >Hope this helps! > > >Ted Andrews >Carmel, Indiana >-----Original Message----- >From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] >Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 2:43 PM >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day > > >List, > > Not being much of a diesel modeler this question goes out to those >who are. Did either of the 2 PRR SD-7's or any of the 25 PRR SD-9's have >the antenna system applied? I can't seem to come up with many pictures >of these locos and the ones I can find do not have antenna.....Gary > > > > >http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:39:17 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a64c88a4a8b3fd6841d3c16c0e2a10fe >The SD-7 were dynamice brake equipped. Geeze...these I GOTTA see! ;-) Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:27:54 EST Subject: [PRR] O Gauge N-8, K-4s, and Slag Cars! X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fbbdb0f5f08404d06c486286721617d0 Hi Folks, Dick Ross from Cleveland wrote: > BE SURE TO SEE the "Premier" (scale) N-8, with antennas, wire handrails >and even a "little guy" in the cupola. Both Lionel and MTH are cataloging a >scale PRR E-6s Atlantic: Lionel also has a K-4. Some Dealers may even have >the MTH O-27 PRR Doodlebug. Dick's right! The N-8 is a beauty. Mine arrived last Friday. The "little guy" in the cupola is drinking a cup of coffee! I saw Lionel's production prototype K-4s (#3750) running at the TCA Show in York last month. It's a beauty, too. Lionel, after decades of inability or disinterest in PRR steam ("Gee, let's release yet ANOTHER NYC Hudson"), has finally put together a decent looking Pennsy steam locomotive. Also saw MTH's Vol. 1 2000 catalog and they are offering a Slag car set (3 cars)! This is the first time I have ever seen this car commercially offered in O. Walthers, I believe, has an HO version. As a child in Weirton, I remember trains of 10-20 slag cars being moved by Alco S-2s. Cheers, George Pandelios Modeling the PRR in O around Weirton, WV from 1948-1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:28:21 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Train phones. X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f034a3d63761db749b3276dbcaee0b83 In a message dated 11/4/1999 6:05:22 PM Central Standard Time, herzog1@gate.net writes: << However, you will note that the GP-30s, U-25bs and indeed the fabled 2415 even had an antenna! That is because they yanked the equipment off of trade-in locomotives and when they yanked the Centipedes there was more than enough antennae to go around. >> I wonder who "they" is. I believe, but cannot prove, that most Pennsy locos had antennas installed at the manufacturer. Don't know about trade-ins. I saw the Centipedes on the trade-in track in LaGrange Park, Illinois, on the Indiana Harbor Belt for transfer to McCook(?) and EMD, but naturally did not take a picture and was at a low angle and don't remember antennas one way or the other. I asked an EMD employee who sells builders photos, including Pennsy, whether they installed the antennas but he could not remember. Photos he had were of new E's in the Harrisburg enginehouse, so that is inconclusive. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:43:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c0016f096f26bb2db55e7c1cb161fede In a message dated 99-11-04 17:55:55 EST, you write: << > Not being much of a diesel modeler this question goes out to those > who are. Did either of the 2 PRR SD-7's or any of the 25 PRR SD-9's have > the antenna system applied? I can't seem to come up with many pictures > of these locos and the ones I can find do not have antenna.....Gary > None of these were equipped with induction trainphones. The 2 SD-7 were restricted to Madison Hill, INdiana -- no train phone territory. All of the SD-9 were hump control equipped and intended for hump service and did not have train phones nor dynamic brakes. The SD-7 were dynamice brake equipped. >> All of the SD-9 units on the PRR were equipted with Dynamic brakes.Most of these units were used in transfer or hump service displacing I-1's. Some were equipped with trainphone and the ones in hump service had an extra equiptment box on the engineer's side walkway by the long hood end. The units equipped for hump service also had three radio disc receivers one on the short hood end and two on the sides of the long hood towards the nose one of which I believe was for a seperate yard channel. 7603 and 7614 are shown with trainphones in some PRR publications. The two SD-7 units were not equipped with trainphones but did have dynamic brakes. Why would the PRR assign non dynamic equipped units to the Madison hill line with a 5.89% grade ??? Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Interesting item on eBay web site item#194028903: PRR Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:09:26 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cb944ee8ea9bc13f2149d784814a9b88 I saw this item for sale at eBay, the world's largest personal trading community, and thought that you might be interested. These are hard to come by!!! Title of item: PRR Interlocking station tower orders 1956 Seller: pwkrail@aol.com Starts: 11/04/99, 08:37:15 PST Ends: 11/11/99, 08:37:15 PST Price: Currently $4.50 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=194028903 Item Description: This hand written orders sheet measures approx. 12x24 and is filled (both sides)with towermans orders of the day at Penn Interlocking, Philadelphia terminal division July 31, 1956. Still has steam locos numbers written on it and also the Aero train that went thru 8:46. Signalmen and leverman sign in at top of page. I didn't count, but at least 75 or more transactions on both sides. Order sheet is in very good to excellent and legible condition, and can not be seen as good on scanned photo below. This will have to be sent rolled in a tube to prevent damage. Winner pays shipping 3.55 priority mail with confirmation check or m.o. US Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:15:27 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 68ea1a6adbd6088fdba7f4dc2c9d4dec In a message dated 11/04/1999 22:48:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, KEMACPRR@aol.com writes: << All of the SD-9 units on the PRR were equipted with Dynamic brakes.Most of these units were used in transfer or hump service displacing I-1's. Some were equipped with trainphone and the ones in hump service had an extra equiptment box on the engineer's side walkway by the long hood end. The units equipped for hump service also had three radio disc receivers one on the short hood end and two on the sides of the long hood towards the nose one of which I believe was for a seperate yard channel. 7603 and 7614 are shown with trainphones in some PRR publications. The two SD-7 units were not equipped with trainphones but did have dynamic brakes. Why would the PRR assign non dynamic equipped units to the Madison hill line with a 5.89% grade ??? >> Ken and all: My original message stated that the SD-7s were dynamic brake equipped. The information on the SD-9s is from Bill Volkmer's PRR Diesel roster with notes in Pennsy Diesel Years Vol 1. BIll did not indicate any dynamic brakes or train phones on the SD-9s only the hump controls. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GenJim833@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:43:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 711f41ab0d5c569ea729d2f4b76cbd4f All of the SD9s and both SD7s had dynamic brakes. These units lasted into the Conrail era and the SD7s were the first to go as these were the oldest and the SD9s lingered on awhile longer until Conrail began its purge of all 567 engined road size power starting with the F7s, E units and finishing up with the last of the GP9 fleet. Since these units were used in hump yards, it would follow that all of them would have the hump control equipment and most would not have the trainphone system as there was no need for it in the yards or on transfer runs. At least that is how I see it. I hope this helps. Jim Mancuso ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Train phone antenna. Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:56:22 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 83f6002e816f977f8f7c75804e38e181 The antennae, the speed recorders, the trucks, and the couplers were salvaged off the trade-in locomotives and if the trucks were EMD or Alco, were put under the new unit. The antennae were also installed by the builder. I vividly remember when the Alco DL-640s were delivered to Enola. We had to park them out back of the diesel shop for about two weeks before they went into service. WHY you ask. Well, the speed recorders that were in the PAs that went to Schnectady in trade were only CARCASSES! No guts inside them because the PAs had been out of service so long they had been robbed blind. SO Alco shipped the new units with just the box minus the speed recorder guts. Pennsy had to scramble around and find some more set-aside units to rob. So Peter DID pay Paul. Aren't you glad you asked? Bill Volkmer -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com To: Prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Train phones. >In a message dated 11/4/1999 6:05:22 PM Central Standard Time, >herzog1@gate.net writes: > ><< However, you will note that > the GP-30s, U-25bs and indeed the fabled 2415 even had an antenna! That is > because they yanked the equipment off of trade-in locomotives and when they > yanked the Centipedes there was more than enough antennae to go around. > >> > >I wonder who "they" is. I believe, but cannot prove, that most Pennsy locos >had antennas installed at the manufacturer. Don't know about trade-ins. I >saw the Centipedes on the trade-in track in LaGrange Park, Illinois, on the >Indiana Harbor Belt for transfer to McCook(?) and EMD, but naturally did not >take a picture and was at a low angle and don't remember antennas one way or >the other. >I asked an EMD employee who sells builders photos, including Pennsy, whether >they installed the antennas but he could not remember. Photos he had were of >new E's in the Harrisburg enginehouse, so that is inconclusive. > >Bob Zoeller > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 14:24:18 -0500 From: jpbtrans Subject: [PRR] Peoria X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 419664c3a7a89a1d90ed45692e9666e5 Thank you for your help yesterday with my Peoria question. But wouldn't you know, I've got another. What, on a normal day, would the traffic be on this line? Would there have been any passenger traffic on it? Any other place that I should look for info? Thank you again for the help. Jon Anderson (jpb trans@gateway.net) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DocMorrow@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:57:57 EST Subject: [PRR] engine number X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fc43cbdb0642d41100e4be78b7ff79ab Hi group, Dose anyone know if the PRR had an engine number 713, if so, what kind? I would like to find out.It is my house number,and I would like to put a KEYSTONE out front as my house no. THANKS,Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Josh Trower" Subject: Re: [PRR] O Gauge N-8, K-4s, and Slag Cars! Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 15:33:06 EST X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b368f7e12a0818a376ecaaebbb739176 How much is the Lionel K4? We haven't gotten our catalog yet(but do have the MTH ones). The Railking K4 was 400 bucks(best 400 dollars you could ever spend). Does the Lionel version feature a "none slatted" pilot? -Josh >From: GPandelios@aol.com >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] O Gauge N-8, K-4s, and Slag Cars! >Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:27:54 EST > >Hi Folks, > >Dick Ross from Cleveland wrote: > > > BE SURE TO SEE the "Premier" (scale) N-8, with antennas, wire >handrails > >and even a "little guy" in the cupola. Both Lionel and MTH are cataloging >a > >scale PRR E-6s Atlantic: Lionel also has a K-4. Some Dealers may even >have > >the MTH O-27 PRR Doodlebug. > >Dick's right! The N-8 is a beauty. Mine arrived last Friday. The "little >guy" in the cupola is drinking a cup of coffee! > >I saw Lionel's production prototype K-4s (#3750) running at the TCA Show in >York last month. It's a beauty, too. Lionel, after decades of inability >or >disinterest in PRR steam ("Gee, let's release yet ANOTHER NYC Hudson"), >has >finally put together a decent looking Pennsy steam locomotive. > >Also saw MTH's Vol. 1 2000 catalog and they are offering a Slag car set (3 >cars)! This is the first time I have ever seen this car commercially >offered >in O. Walthers, I believe, has an HO version. As a child in Weirton, I >remember trains of 10-20 slag cars being moved by Alco S-2s. > >Cheers, > >George Pandelios > >Modeling the PRR in O around Weirton, WV from 1948-1957 > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 16:20:46 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: aa87590778a2e3ca55726b389cfd50d0 Gary, Though I'm also treading on thin ice when it comes to diesels (except for the EP20/EMD E7), I don't think any of PRR's early SDs had antenna systems. The SD7s were purchased for special service, not general main line use. The SD9s were purchased for yard work at big hump yards, and not general main line use. PRR's main line power (F3s, F7s, GP7s, GP9s to stick with EMDs) got the antenna systems, and management probably decided to take the cheap route and not equip the special service engines with a system they'd rarely, if ever, use. Now, back to my E6s. Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > List, > > Not being much of a diesel modeler this question goes out to those > who are. Did either of the 2 PRR SD-7's or any of the 25 PRR SD-9's have > the antenna system applied? I can't seem to come up with many pictures > of these locos and the ones I can find do not have antenna.....Gary > > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 16:45:32 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Sunshine Models X31F X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bd0b63775180eeb3bdbc43c8dbc75e14 Hello list, I received my first Sunshine Models kit in the mail yesterday. As I've built only a few Westerfield kits and one other manufacturer's kit until now, I was curious how Sunshine's kit compared to the Westerfield. In short, they're both excellent. Flash on my model was very manageable; most of it just broke off, and what little didn't cleaned up fast with a knife and sandpaper. My edges haven't needed much work with the file; they were pretty true to start with. So far, I've got the sides and ends assembled, with the roof and floor to come next. Like the Westerfield kits, the wire grab irons and ancillary parts to complete the model are all in the box, except for trucks and couplers. My kit has injection molded brake gear, unlike the kit's instructions which show resin. Perhaps this is a mid-run improvement. Anyway, Sunshine is closing out this model (the mold must have reached the end of its life). I think I want to get one of their X37s or a G26 next. If you're looking for resin kits, to learn on, this may be the way to go. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 16:52:46 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Repowering a Bowser G5s X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4feb3923219ce60bb81dfbd6b65fe26f Hello list, A while back, I posed a question to the list about repowering a Bowser G5s with an Alco Products repower kit for the Bowser E6s. I have figured out that this isn't possible with the G5s as it currently stands, but the problem is fixable. Bowser's G5s uses a 29 to 1 gear ratio, unlike the K4s and E6s, which use a 32 to 1 ratio. The main axle gears are different, as are the worm gears. What I plan to do, since I have a Sensipress and Quarterer, is to change the G5s' main axle gear to the E6s main axle gear so I can drop in the E6s repower kit. I will post on this subject as my project advances and parts arrive (orders for the repower kit and the gear were sent a week ago, and I have many other projects to occupy me until they arrive). One word of warning to those of you who haven't already used the Puller and Sensipress to dissassemble and reassemble Bowser drivers: Just accept the factory quartering. I scratch a mark onto the tire and axle that I'm dissassembling so I can put the driver set back together correctly. Once, I tried to use the Quarterer to set things up, and I failed miserably. The striations that Bowser makes on their driver axles are deep and large; ignore them at your peril. In my experience, Bowser's quartering is usually pretty good. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 18:15:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Sunshine Models X31F X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 41fe97530a81811d83f57af241cc3a61 Doug, I have built both Westerfield and Sunshine kits and they both are about the same. You use the same techniques for both. I bought my X31f kit at a past Pennsy Convention and they were selling the correct Pennsy trucks to go with these cars. Theyshuld still be available. A photo of my X31f is located here. http://www.geocities.com/k4-5389/x31f.jpg I have also built Sunshines X29 (MS) and a G class Gondola and these also build into brass quality cars. Bowser is about to release this same X31f Turtle Back car soon, however I don't believe it will be as nice these resin casted models....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 18:38:48 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Peoria X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 03ba3d6115467b945dee4092e64f5a91 In the employee timetables are a few pages dealing with arranged freight service giving assigned symbols for trains of different routes and directions. These are not scheduled trains but used for agency work. By this time most trains were ran as extras. Here 's what I have for Southwestern Div. T.T. no. 7 October 29, 1961: Northbound assigned Direction is Farrington to Farmdale Jct. SW-29: Leave Decatur at 6:00PM to Peoria, arrive at 11:45PM Daily except Sat & Sun. SL-11: Leave Terre Haute at 8:30 AM arrive at Decatur at 6PM Mon, Wed, Fri SW-31: Leave Indpls Hawthorne Yd at 11AM arrive Terre Haute at2pm, arrive Decatur 9:30PM Daily Southbound Direction: SW-28: Leave Peoria at 11:45PM Arrive Decatur at 5:30 AM Daily except Monday SL-12: Leave Decatur 9:30 AM arrive Terre Haute 7PM Tue, Thur, Sat. SW-30: Leave Decatur 5PM, arrive Terre Haute 10:30 Pm, leave Terre Haute 5:00am ,arrive at Davis Tower, Indpls 8pm Daily Steve Long, my interest: Vandalia Line and St. Louis Division jpbtrans wrote: > Thank you for your help yesterday with my Peoria question. But wouldn't > you know, I've got another. What, on a normal day, would the traffic be > on this line? Would there have been any passenger traffic on it? Any > other place that I should look for info? > Thank you again for the help. > > Jon Anderson (jpb trans@gateway.net) > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 18:42:18 -0500 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] engine number X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9c211edb3480f26cf0298130af3897c3 Last Pennsy engine to use #713 was an A5s (0-4-0) that remained on the Pennsy roster until sometime in 1956. Frank Brua DocMorrow@aol.com wrote: > Hi group, Dose anyone know if the PRR had an engine number 713, if so, what > kind? I would like to find out.It is my house number,and I would like to put > a KEYSTONE out front as my house no. THANKS,Dave > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] engine number Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 20:29:29 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c30db1f0f9d264f0120b0e7db7280368 I found a photo of PRR #715, an 0-6-0. Can you move next door? Andy -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of DocMorrow@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 05, 1999 1:58 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] engine number Hi group, Dose anyone know if the PRR had an engine number 713, if so, what kind? I would like to find out.It is my house number,and I would like to put a KEYSTONE out front as my house no. THANKS,Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:51:32 -0600 From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: [PRR] PRR electrics at MOT in StL X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 71d0c40e2a3e1346585deb59e7503d40 Howdy all, I happened down to the Museum of Transport here in St Louis today and thought I would pass along a report on things Pennsy. The GG-1 has been moved into the back shed next to the P5. At the same time, however, that area has been opened up so it is possible to get in there. It still isn't practical to do overall photos, but now we can get up close and personal with both motors. The Hudson & Manhattan tube car, an authentic Stillwell, is parked nearby (also under the shed). It is in very poor shape with heavy rust. However, unlike a great many later cars, those Stilwells were built like tanks. So it is still possible to get in there and do a LOT of rust removal and painting. One nice touch is that these are surrounded by eastern prototypes, mainly B&O, CN, NYC, LV, so that one can at least get the feel of what it must have been like in the glory time. The Aerotrain has been moved out into the open on the upper level. However, the cars are still not accessable. One car is buckled at one end - looks like someone tried coupling with a pile of rust and got a predictable result. The general area where it is sitting is a staging area for equipment being restored, so perhaps there is some hope here. Recent restorations at the Museum: the Milwaukee Bi-polar, the CN 4-6-2 and the ex- B&O / Alton "Abraham Lincoln" round end obs. This last is a beauty in almost cherry condition (they are still doing some work in the vestibule and small details). I am not sure what their plans are, but having cleared three big projects, I suspect something ambitious might be undertaken. There are still a lot of badly delapidated rust piles there, including some that will make you cry - such as the D&H varnish obs. But there are more and more restored units each time I go out there, so I think we may hope to eventually see most of it at least cleaned up and preserved. My best to all, Bob Robert A. Boyd ======== Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" "The Limited" On Line - The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service http://www.thoseclassictrains.com history - technology - modeling - sources Classified Ads - Bubba's Web Resources - and Psycho too! ======== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 00:53:01 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2000 pics X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 41f3767c4b46caf98e725bcc756ea8d1 Larry, Gary and all, I made the Hobby show and that was the first question out of my mouth to Paul Lubeliner. It is the wrong size he knows it and claims it was a quick and dirty job to make a presentation at the show. He also told me that he would have his undecorated units ready for the shop before the end of December ... take it for what it is worth. I have known Paul personally since 1990 or perhaps before. I am sure Athearn is under tremendous pressure to get this product out. Ignore the paint, by it and paint it yourself. Greg Martin reynoldl@gte.net writes: << Hi Gary: I looked at the Athearn Genesis PRR F unit and was quite pleased to see the passenger type pilot and small F3 number boards. Is it me, or is the "PENNSYLVANIA" lettering too big? It just doesn't look right to me. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: endeimling@mindspring.com Subject: [PRR] Structure Drawings Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:11:19 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bf0acbc1eeca58c47ea31aac9931a330 I have been looking for a source of railroad structure drawings. I have an extensive collection of MR and RMC and have found a few drawings for stations, a water tank and a signal tower. Are their ex-railroad archieves or a museum that have the PRR drawings for their structures? Gene Deimling PRRH&TS #6418 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 02:37:51 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Dumb ? of the day X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d06be3d85d160948c5cccaf27872cb7c Ken, Thank you, I have been digging my way through my Email I have collected since I got back from the National Model and Hobby Show and the Sunshine I attended in the Chicago area last week. You are write they did have both dynamics and some did have antenna mast. This kind of reminds me of the speculation that went on some time back with regard to the reason for having the screening on the nose of the BP-20's and the AFP-20's, when both regeared to dual service the larger traction motors required better ventilation. Research, research, research ... is the only way to formulate a valid statement. Greg Martin Ken McCorry writes: << All of the SD-9 units on the PRR were equipped with Dynamic brakes. Most of these units were used in transfer or hump service displacing I-1's. Some were equipped with trainphone and the ones in hump service had an extra equipment box on the engineer's side walkway by the long hood end. The units equipped for hump service also had three radio disc receivers one on the short hood end and two on the sides of the long hood towards the nose one of which I believe was for a separate yard channel. 7603 and 7614 are shown with trainphone in some PRR publications. The two SD7 units were not equipped with trainphones but did have dynamic brakes. Why would the PRR assign non dynamic equipped units to the Madison hill line with a 5.89% grade ??? Ken McCorry >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 08:26:48 -0600 From: Richard Wallis Subject: Re: [PRR] Peoria X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0f14824c5235df9d119b2c0eec7064cf jpbtrans wrote: > What, on a normal day, would the traffic be > on this line? Would there have been any passenger traffic on it? Jon and list: Steve Long has already posted excellent info about arranged freight services from a relatively recent SW Region ETT. You'll note it is not heavy. In fact, it appears from earlier ETT's dating back to the 1930s--using only the arranged freights as evidence--that the Peoria line was a fairly lightly used branch, especially west of Decatur. The fact is that it always was, even from the beginning. And traffic seems only to have grown lighter as time passed (the trend is steeply downward following WW2). The road west of Decatur was poorly located, lightly bridged and hilly. There were limited and expensive terminal facilities in Peoria, reached over the TP&W until the early 1930s, and over the LE&W line of the NKP thereafter. And except for some industrial traffic to and from Decatur, and for a brief time, some coal from the mine in Lovington, the bulk of branch traffic seems to have been agricultural in nature. However, that is only my interpretation. I would be keenly interested in hearing any additional and/or alternate views. Any old heads who worked the branch have comments on its operation? Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 12:21:09 EST Subject: [PRR] Regearing vs. Remotoring of diesel locomotives X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 10f15d27178aa663e2d33ffa664f02ae In a message dated 11/6/99 2:46:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, TGREGMRTN@aol.com writes: << This kind of reminds me of the speculation that went on some time back with regard to the reason for having the screening on the nose of the BP-20's and the AFP-20's, when both regeared to dual service the larger traction motors required better ventilation. >> Can we confirm this? Is this an issue of larger traction motors, or just a desire for more air intake? This statement brought me up short, because I thought regearing (for example to convert a passenger engine to freight service) was a matter of fitting a new pinion gear on the same traction motor's shaft and a new bull gear on the axle. The traction motor winds up operating in the same rpm range, but the locomotive provides lower speed/higher torque output at the rail. Since the traction motor is turning at similar speeds as it was before, the back emf and current flow should be similar, therefore traction motor heating is about the same. Thus (at least in theory), the loco wouldn't need bigger air intakes for the blowers that force-cool the traction motors. Another "red herring" here is that the BP-20 sharknose started out with a Westinghouse traction motor, didn't it? That said, they don't come any bigger, so did a larger changeout really exist? OTOH, an AFP-20 (Alco PA, right?) had the GE traction motor. I'm not sure about the PA's A-1-A truck, but in other Alco truck designs, there isn't room for bigger than the GE motor, so there shouldn't be a larger changeout here, either. Then again, I may have completely lost my mind. If that's true, I apologize in advance. One thing I'm sure of is that the Westinghouse traction motor, being larger and having more metal in it, took longer to overheat and thus was great for low speed lugging. The GE traction motor was smaller and slightly easier to overheat. And remember the EMD traction motors started out as GE's, so it's not surprising they're the same size. Rick Tipton Who used to know this stuff... a long time ago. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 12:21:12 EST Subject: [PRR] Equipment on Madison Hill X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0fae76206463b4dc976da2ff3b4107af << The two SD7 units were not equipped with trainphones but did have dynamic brakes. Why would the PRR assign non dynamic equipped units to the Madison hill line with a 5.89% grade ??? Ken McCorry >> Hi Ken, An early Jack Fravert pic of SD-7 #8589 on the Madison Hill shows the d/b's prominently, and no trainphone antennas -- no surprise there. OTOH, I've always wondered how useful d/b's were on The Hill, because the older ones were only effective above a certain speed, and The Hill was operated dead slow -- or at least, that's what the timetable says. Wish I knew. Rick Tipton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 12:56:37 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Amtrak on the PRR From: "Doug and Marianne" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 850ceb2077a16050992428b0e5938b8a I hope that this is not too far off the list topic, but has anyone noticed how late Amtrak is running through Pennsylvania EVERY DAY? Train 40, which is now the only eastbound daytime train to New York is running between 2 and 6 hours late every single day. This train is now totally unreliable as transportation. I contacted Amtrak and got a non-specific answer about how they do care about schedules and difficulty of running on the freight railroads. When the train originated in Pittsburgh, it was generally reliable, but with the extension to Chicago and the emphasis on express, the train seems to cater to packages rather than passengers. We will be forced to rent a car for our next trip later this month. Does anyone know what is the cause of the late running and why is this tolerated? thanks Doug Mill Valley, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ---------------------------------------------------