Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 09:19:37 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Final Hoss's Dinner List X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 62b62c662367263dbafa52368f573e3b Greetings to the group, Here is the final list of those indicating they would be coming to dinner Saturday night. Looking forward to another fine get together with good conversation between good friends over good food. By the way, say Hi to Andrew and I if you make it to the Juniata Shops in the AM on Saturday. We'll be helping out at the entry area that morning. Drew McGhee Andrew McGhee Michael Wingard David Wingard Bill Coffeman Steve Shomo Michael Coners David Gnuse +3 Bill Bigler Dennis Sautters Carl Haslett +7 Rich Copeland Michael Bezilla John W Rosenbauer Derrick Brashear Mark Brashear Scott Johnson Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:53:27 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Standard Railroad of... X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 81656fbf5ae2b4fd45687fa8e83f77fa I just got back from eBay, looking at a 1910 PRR system map. The bottom margin of the map had text "Standard Railroad of America". Hunh! "Standard Railroad of the World", I'd heard of that. Hadn't known there was an earlier, less inclusive claim. And, since inquiring minds want to know, I wonder: Did PRR ever claim to be "Standard Railroad of the Commonwealth"? When did the slogan "Standard Railroad of America" come into use? And when did "...of the World" replace it? Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:32:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] careful with your Keystones... X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b4aa06f5796675cc58cb26b956c0bd47 somehow several of mine got wet on one edge. The summer 1998 lost the most: the pages practically melted together, presumably because whatever coating is on the paper didn't like it. (sigh) So, don't get your Keystones wet. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:38:57 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] careful with your Keystones... X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2d584fea97b44ac00aaff6158debc2db --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > somehow several of mine got wet on one edge. The > summer 1998 lost the > most: the pages practically melted together, > presumably because whatever > coating is on the paper didn't like it. (sigh) So, > don't get your > Keystones wet. > I had a similar misadventure with Model Railroader (also on heavy glossy paper). Welded/glued most of the pages into a solid block as it dried. I suspect it is the glossy coating rather than anything peculiar to the Keystone's paper. On the other hand, RMC, on less glossy paper, survived the drowning with much less damage. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:16:05 -0500 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] careful with your Keystones... X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1092338a980fdcbd8166ea894875f90f --On Fre, 1. Okt 1999 09:38 -0700 "robert netzlof" wrote: > > I had a similar misadventure with Model Railroader > (also on heavy glossy paper). Welded/glued most of the > pages into a solid block as it dried. I suspect it is > the glossy coating rather than anything peculiar to > the Keystone's paper. > Little to do with PRR, but the glossy coating on high-quality magazine paper is Kaolin Clay, is it not? Perhaps it retains its soluability even when processed at the paper mill. And clay does tend to dry hard. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 15:07:35 -0400 From: DDembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] careful with your Keystones... X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 43043c84e982fb2dea4e31837bdec68a I wonder if you could re-wet your Keystone, separate the pages that are stuck together, then fan the pages loosely until they are dry? A hair dryer might be a good tool to use here. I seem to recall having moderate success with this method some time ago, although my pages were not molded into a solid block. The magazine didn't look like new anymore, but I could open all the pages, and many of them were surprisingly OK. I wouldn't try this unless you have *nothing* to lose. Dale Derrick J Brashear wrote: > somehow several of mine got wet on one edge. The summer 1998 lost the > most: the pages practically melted together, presumably because whatever > coating is on the paper didn't like it. (sigh) So, don't get your > Keystones wet. > > -D > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 15:52:31 -0400 From: Eric Lauterbach Subject: [PRR] Athearn Mikado X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2a1cae6810fee2a1636c53673f5f0621 I finally got a chance for a close look at the new Athearn Mikado. I would put it somewhere between a Rivarossi steam engine and the new Bachman Mountain. It has good piping detail near the drivers, but doesn't have separate detail on the boiler. The details on the boiler are molded into the boiler like most plastic steam engines, except it does have seperate handrails. However, they are a bit more crisp then the older Rivarossi engines. This was a bit disappointing when you consider the Bachman Mountain is about the same price, but has seperate sand pipes and other pipes on the boiler. I will end up getting one sooner or later. The Pennsy ones are not in yet, and the hobby shop had no idea when they would be in. Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:32:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] careful with your Keystones... X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f01bb3a0489e22f0a80ff7ea139a4180 Since clay is what gives paper the gloss it only stands to reason that it becomes glue when wet. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:25:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] Kris's L1 page updated X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2dbeb25b33091a50f8a57e88517def81 I've just finished putting an update on Kris's Bowser L-1 on the RPM web page located at: http://www.rpmrail.org Check it out, you'll be surprised at how good a Bowser can look. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 14:04:50 -0700 From: Paul Kuzyk Subject: [PRR] subscripe X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 33161ea60718561e854f2f9cc0440d0e subscripe ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:32:25 EDT Subject: [PRR] USRA Engines-Athearn & Spectrum X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f96fb8b42023a9bae222c513a66f7273 Folks, Well, I dug out the old wallet at the hobby shop yesterday and picked up a long awaited Athearn mike, and in a moment of weakness also picked up the spectrum light 4-8-2. (One of the advantages of not being tied to a single prototype.....if ya can't resist it you don't have to). As a visual comparison, I think the Athearn takes it as easily a nicer model. Certainly the paint job is better in it's tones and application. The Spectrum has more added-on piping on the boiler, but from the running board down the piping on the Athearn is better and more delicate looking. But in the general crispness of details the Athearn is more appealing. The air compressor, power reverse and truck details are much, much better on the athearn, though the unlettered Spectrum throws in an extra set of tender sideframes. Regarding the tenders themselves, the Bachman is almost toylike from the top veiw. the water hatch looks like something from the 1950's train set mode and the coal load begs to be disguised. But still, the lean looks of that 4-8-2 are mighty appealing and some touching up will make it more than acceptable for my privatre road's dual service pool. The engine overall is nice and these two engines might go a long way towards prompting some younger modelers to consider the steam age yet. Both loco's are well worth a gander. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:03:31 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 26d22b86676d29ba4e9d72cbd0900bb7 Here is a trivia question. Let's see who gets the answer first and how many wrong answers come in. During the late 1950s the Pennsy operated a passenger train to a resort location, only on Friday afternoons and returned on Sunday evening. Can you name the train, and its origin and destination? If you can correctly name the train, can you also let us know what the consist was and when it last operated? My guess would be in 1960 or 1961 but am not sure. Hint: It was advertised only obscurely in the Form 1 Timetables. Bill Volkmer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:34:08 -0400 From: Michael Bezilla Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3f7469c97b0142a20d929c04e513544e At the PRR talk dinner at Hoss's Saturday night (thanks, Drew McGhee, for arranging this) following Railfest, John Rosenbauer, Scott Johnson and I were looking at a 1920s or early 1930s photo of the Curve. The switch leading to Glen White was in the foreground. Across Burgoon Run (or Glen White Run), looking west, there is another switch for another track that leads up the run. Was this really a branch that led to some mines on the hill opposite Glen White? Or was this a stub end track that went essentially nowhere? Dan Cupper, in his Horseshoe Curve book, says "two spurs diverging from the west side of the Curve and following Glen White Run....meandered back to bituminous coal mines." Trimuph I, however, says "we guess this was a PRR spur used to dump cinders and drainage-ditch tailings. In 1910 it was listed as a shop-car track." Does anyone have info on this track? -mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:21:57 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7f9b5375a8f5d865ba938312185a8483 My guess would be to Macinack Michigan up the GR&I but I don't know the name or any details. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:29:07 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 55d2303481efce5b020f3e3700fc7cea Nope it isn't in Michgan. Try the eastern part of the railroad. Another hint. The name of the train was the same name as the resort location, but the train actually ended up several miles short of the resort. Bill P.S. Although I never saw the train in the flesh, I was told it was generally SOLD OUT and the railroad still wanted to discontinue it and rarely advertised its existance. -----Original Message----- From: NDBPRR@aol.com To: herzog@icanect.net Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train >My guess would be to Macinack Michigan up the GR&I but I don't know the name >or any details. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:43:44 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b5648545522356214d57a95befbaef82 Wrong again. Another hint. The destination was not on the PRR or even a connecting (with the PRR) railroad. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Derrick J Brashear To: Bill Volkmer Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train >On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Bill Volkmer wrote: > >> Nope it isn't in Michgan. Try the eastern part of the railroad. >> >> Another hint. The name of the train was the same name as the resort >> location, but the train actually ended up several miles short of the resort. > >Something to Ocean City? > >-D > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question The BAR HARBOR Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:17:10 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 098bf75e09d7476c604ce3b85b626fda BINGO. The Bar Harbor is IT. Now. What can you tell us about the train's consist, last run and how it came about to be in the first place? Thanks for the info in advance. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Don R. Millbranth To: Bill Volkmer Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train >Bill: > Are you referring to the "BAR HARBOR" running from Washington D.C to >Bangor ME train, >departing D.C at 2.00 p.m. EDT Friday and returned Sunday at 11.45 a.m., >traveling the "Hell Gate Bridge Route ? > >Sincerely. >Don > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bill Volkmer >To: talk prr >Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 8:10 AM >Subject: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train > > >>Here is a trivia question. Let's see who gets the answer first and how >many >>wrong answers come in. >> >>During the late 1950s the Pennsy operated a passenger train to a resort >>location, only on Friday afternoons and returned on Sunday evening. Can >you >>name the train, and its origin and destination? >> >>If you can correctly name the train, can you also let us know what the >>consist was and when it last operated? My guess would be in 1960 or 1961 >>but am not sure. >> >>Hint: It was advertised only obscurely in the Form 1 Timetables. >> >>Bill Volkmer >> >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FarbLand@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:52:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] Weekend Plans -epilogue X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 63556347b372990d8c8717a8ef9f128e The weekend show at Timonium was very good. Thanks to those from both lists who came by and said hello. Some even bought some merchandise. See you there again in April. Brian C ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:52:56 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6e08e1ef4450a6e6c32e1ecddd0fd9b0 In a message dated 10/04/1999 9:47:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mxb13@psu.edu writes: << Dan Cupper, in his Horseshoe Curve book, says "two spurs diverging from the west side of the Curve and following Glen White Run....meandered back to bituminous coal mines." Trimuph I, however, says "we guess this was a PRR spur used to dump cinders and drainage-ditch tailings. In 1910 it was listed as a shop-car track." Does anyone have info on this track? -mike >> Believe Dan he is correct and take everything in Triumph I with many grains of salt. Triumph I is riddled with factual errors and poorly researched. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question The BAR HARBOR Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:07:45 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3ba9f280342c9463eeb493a4b0b428b5 I would particularly like to know how they routed the train around the infamous gap in Boston between South Station and North Station. Also how did the passengers get from Bangor to Bar Harbor? What was the politcal pressure on the PRR to keep the train running (other than continued good patronage)? This would make a GREAT article for a future issue of the Keystone if someone can assemble all of the facts. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Don R. Millbranth To: Bill Volkmer Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question The BAR HARBOR >Bill: > I am looking at the schedule issued April 24, 1960. I do not find a >similar schedule in the April 30, 1961 schedule. > The train to Bangor was the No. 220-184 BAR HARBOR and the return train >was the No. 185-201 BAR HARBOR. > According to the schedule the PRR, NewHaven RR, B&M RR and the MC RR >were involved in this trek. > The consist seems complicated and ever changing on route. Attached is >the information from the schedule. Hope this helps. > Why this train? I'd have to some research on this point. > >Don > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bill Volkmer >To: talk prr ; Don R. Millbranth >Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 10:20 AM >Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question The BAR HARBOR > > >>BINGO. The Bar Harbor is IT. >> >>Now. What can you tell us about the train's consist, last run and how it >>came about to be in the first place? >> >>Thanks for the info in advance. >> >>Bill V. >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Don R. Millbranth >>To: Bill Volkmer >>Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 11:15 AM >>Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train >> >> >>>Bill: >>> Are you referring to the "BAR HARBOR" running from Washington D.C to >>>Bangor ME train, >>>departing D.C at 2.00 p.m. EDT Friday and returned Sunday at 11.45 a.m., >>>traveling the "Hell Gate Bridge Route ? >>> >>>Sincerely. >>>Don >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Bill Volkmer >>>To: talk prr >>>Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 8:10 AM >>>Subject: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train >>> >>> >>>>Here is a trivia question. Let's see who gets the answer first and how >>>many >>>>wrong answers come in. >>>> >>>>During the late 1950s the Pennsy operated a passenger train to a resort >>>>location, only on Friday afternoons and returned on Sunday evening. Can >>>you >>>>name the train, and its origin and destination? >>>> >>>>If you can correctly name the train, can you also let us know what the >>>>consist was and when it last operated? My guess would be in 1960 or 1961 >>>>but am not sure. >>>> >>>>Hint: It was advertised only obscurely in the Form 1 Timetables. >>>> >>>>Bill Volkmer >>>> >>>> >>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>>>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:28:11 -0400 From: "R. Vogel" Subject: [Fwd: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train] X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a5c70cd1efdd3ab58427518cbdccf5e2 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:27:30 -0400 From: "R. Vogel" To: Bill Volkmer References: <00ff01bf0e78$8d985ba0$f1b724cf@bill> Sounds something like the Cape Codder that Amtrak used to run until a couple of years ago. I don't know what the origins of the cape codder are so consider this an uneducated guess. Also the cape codder made it onto the cape. Bill Volkmer wrote: > > Wrong again. > > Another hint. The destination was not on the PRR or even a connecting > (with the PRR) railroad. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Trivia Question The BAR HARBOR Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:08:10 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 506e01df949acb4b0afcbcbf9c048cc6 -----Original Message----- From: Don R. Millbranth To: Bill Volkmer Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question The BAR HARBOR >Bill: > Time prohits further "research" today. However, if you look at the >schedule I sent, it apparently did not go through Boston. > I am looking at a schedule issued June 30, 1952 whereby the train was >called the BAR HARBOR EXPRESS (Trains No. 185 & 184). The PRR part of the >trek ran from D.C to NY (Penna Station). One then departed NY on the >N.Y.N.H.&H. RR through Worchester (MA) on to Lowell (MA), leaving Lowell on >the B&M RR to Portland ME. The Maine Central then completed the trek through >Bangor on to Bar Harbor. > An interesting note is that the #184 train actually made the trip on >Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays with the #185 making the trip on Tuesdays, >Thursdays and Sundays up through September 7th of 1952. Other runs are noted >at later dates in September. > Bill, if you like I'll scan this schedule and send it to you later this >evening...\ >More later if it will help. >Don > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bill Volkmer >To: talk prr ; Don R. Millbranth >Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 12:18 PM >Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question The BAR HARBOR > > >>I would particularly like to know how they routed the train around the >>infamous gap in Boston between South Station and North Station. >> >>Also how did the passengers get from Bangor to Bar Harbor? What was the >>politcal pressure on the PRR to keep the train running (other than >continued >>good patronage)? >> >>This would make a GREAT article for a future issue of the Keystone if >>someone can assemble all of the facts. >> >>Bill V. >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Don R. Millbranth >>To: Bill Volkmer >>Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 11:48 AM >>Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question The BAR HARBOR >> >> >>>Bill: >>> I am looking at the schedule issued April 24, 1960. I do not find a >>>similar schedule in the April 30, 1961 schedule. >>> The train to Bangor was the No. 220-184 BAR HARBOR and the return >train >>>was the No. 185-201 BAR HARBOR. >>> According to the schedule the PRR, NewHaven RR, B&M RR and the MC RR >>>were involved in this trek. >>> The consist seems complicated and ever changing on route. Attached is >>>the information from the schedule. Hope this helps. >>> Why this train? I'd have to some research on this point. >>> >>>Don >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Bill Volkmer >>>To: talk prr ; Don R. Millbranth >>>Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 10:20 AM >>>Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question The BAR HARBOR >>> >>> >>>>BINGO. The Bar Harbor is IT. >>>> >>>>Now. What can you tell us about the train's consist, last run and how it >>>>came about to be in the first place? >>>> >>>>Thanks for the info in advance. >>>> >>>>Bill V. >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Don R. Millbranth >>>>To: Bill Volkmer >>>>Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 11:15 AM >>>>Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train >>>> >>>> >>>>>Bill: >>>>> Are you referring to the "BAR HARBOR" running from Washington D.C to >>>>>Bangor ME train, >>>>>departing D.C at 2.00 p.m. EDT Friday and returned Sunday at 11.45 a.m., >>>>>traveling the "Hell Gate Bridge Route ? >>>>> >>>>>Sincerely. >>>>>Don >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Bill Volkmer >>>>>To: talk prr >>>>>Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 8:10 AM >>>>>Subject: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Here is a trivia question. Let's see who gets the answer first and how >>>>>many >>>>>>wrong answers come in. >>>>>> >>>>>>During the late 1950s the Pennsy operated a passenger train to a resort >>>>>>location, only on Friday afternoons and returned on Sunday evening. >Can >>>>>you >>>>>>name the train, and its origin and destination? >>>>>> >>>>>>If you can correctly name the train, can you also let us know what the >>>>>>consist was and when it last operated? My guess would be in 1960 or >>1961 >>>>>>but am not sure. >>>>>> >>>>>>Hint: It was advertised only obscurely in the Form 1 Timetables. >>>>>> >>>>>>Bill Volkmer >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- - >>>>>>Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- - >>>>>>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>>>>>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:32:43 -0700 From: dick lemin Subject: [PRR] X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 823273860f83e7a0b524d42ff6eef171 Can somebody out there shed some light on this? As a kid growing up in Ada, Ohio during the early 50's, I used to enjoy going down to the tracks and watch the local switcher work at the grain elevator in the summer. During the summers of 55-56 I remember an unusual sight. The switcher was painted medium blue with dulux glod lettering. Was this an experimental paint scheme? The engine came out of Crestline, and I only remember seeing it for those two summers. It was an ALCO RS1,2,3 (I think). Any information would be appreciated. Dick Lemin Napa, Ca. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Blue Road Switcher Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:10:36 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ef5dbdc444b84728154ef77061bedf60 This MAY have been one of the Bangor and Aristook GP-7s that the Pennsy leased during the spring and summer months. They were owned half and half with the Bangor but they spent about 9 months a year on the PRR mostly in the Erie, Cleveland area. They did wander away on occasion. See if you can get a better description, but that is MY guess. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: dick lemin To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 2:38 PM Subject: [PRR] > >Can somebody out there shed some light on this? As a kid growing up in Ada, >Ohio during the early 50's, I used to enjoy going down to the tracks and >watch the local switcher work at the grain elevator in the summer. During >the summers of 55-56 I remember an unusual sight. The switcher was painted >medium blue with dulux glod lettering. Was this an experimental paint >scheme? The engine came out of Crestline, and I only remember seeing it for >those two summers. It was an ALCO RS1,2,3 (I think). Any information would >be appreciated. >Dick Lemin >Napa, Ca. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:02:54 -1000 From: "Eric J. Minton" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 118fc435e02e3a308a2da31f2c992011 Aloha, I don't remember the name but it went to Atlantic City. Eric, Left the East Coast in 62 after High School. At 09:03 AM 10/4/1999 -0400, Bill Volkmer wrote: >Here is a trivia question. Let's see who gets the answer first and how many >wrong answers come in. > >During the late 1950s the Pennsy operated a passenger train to a resort >location, only on Friday afternoons and returned on Sunday evening. Can you >name the train, and its origin and destination? > >If you can correctly name the train, can you also let us know what the >consist was and when it last operated? My guess would be in 1960 or 1961 >but am not sure. > >Hint: It was advertised only obscurely in the Form 1 Timetables. > >Bill Volkmer > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Blue Road Switcher Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:37:34 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6290ff275bc0405a6db5f8484ddfd043 The PRR had some Alco RS-2s based out of Fort Wayne that were purchased second hand from the D&H but they were NOT blue. They were possibly not completely repainted be fore being put into service, but they would have been the D&H olive drab paint. I believe on occasion the Pennsy borrowed units from the Wabash that would have been blue but the Wabash never owned any Alco roadswitchers. Ann Arbor, also owned by the Wabash DID have a couple of Alco RS-1s that may have wandered off road, but I would rather doubt it. The AA paint scheme was identical to the Wabash. Wabash was owned by the PRR. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: dick lemin To: Bill Volkmer Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Blue Road Switcher >Hi Bill, >I was only ten years old in 1955, but I was very much in tune with the PRR >that went through town, and I was familiar with the trains on it. This >switcher was definitely blue with dulux gold PRR lettering. I remember it >as being smaller than a GP-7 and not an EMD product. The engine had an >entirely diferent sound than the 567 series, especially at idle. I remember >it as being shaped like the ALCO road switchers. That's about all that I >can remember....Dick > > > > > > > >At 03:10 PM 10/04/99 -0400, you wrote: >>This MAY have been one of the Bangor and Aristook GP-7s that the Pennsy >>leased during the spring and summer months. They were owned half and half >>with the Bangor but they spent about 9 months a year on the PRR mostly in >>the Erie, Cleveland area. They did wander away on occasion. >> >>See if you can get a better description, but that is MY guess. >> >>Bill V. >>-----Original Message----- >>From: dick lemin >>To: prr-talk@dsop.com >>Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 2:38 PM >>Subject: [PRR] >> >> >>> >>>Can somebody out there shed some light on this? As a kid growing up in Ada, >>>Ohio during the early 50's, I used to enjoy going down to the tracks and >>>watch the local switcher work at the grain elevator in the summer. During >>>the summers of 55-56 I remember an unusual sight. The switcher was painted >>>medium blue with dulux glod lettering. Was this an experimental paint >>>scheme? The engine came out of Crestline, and I only remember seeing it for >>>those two summers. It was an ALCO RS1,2,3 (I think). Any information would >>>be appreciated. >>>Dick Lemin >>>Napa, Ca. >>> >>>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >>> >> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Josh Trower" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 17:03:07 EDT X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 26606515be9fc0d5c815380fe1436bcc Is it possibly trains 519/520, "The Northern Arrow"? Its in the July, 30 1961 Form 1. Runs St. Louis to Mackinaw City. -Josh T. >From: "Bill Volkmer" >Reply-To: "Bill Volkmer" >To: "talk prr" >Subject: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train >Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:03:31 -0400 > >Here is a trivia question. Let's see who gets the answer first and how >many >wrong answers come in. > >During the late 1950s the Pennsy operated a passenger train to a resort >location, only on Friday afternoons and returned on Sunday evening. Can >you >name the train, and its origin and destination? > >If you can correctly name the train, can you also let us know what the >consist was and when it last operated? My guess would be in 1960 or 1961 >but am not sure. > >Hint: It was advertised only obscurely in the Form 1 Timetables. > >Bill Volkmer > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 14:07:11 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR] X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c8c744ac10955612867261035a9a53e3 Dick, I think someone else may have replied that you may have seen a leased BAR loco. However, if it was an RS-2 (?) you were probably looking at one of the units that PRR bought from the D&H. I don't know how long it took the Pennsy to get around to painting them, but they did stay in D&H colors (plain blue with yellow or buff-type lettering) for a while after acquisition. Chuck Friedlein dick lemin wrote: > Can somebody out there shed some light on this? As a kid growing up in Ada, > Ohio during the early 50's, I used to enjoy going down to the tracks and > watch the local switcher work at the grain elevator in the summer. During > the summers of 55-56 I remember an unusual sight. The switcher was painted > medium blue with dulux glod lettering. Was this an experimental paint > scheme? The engine came out of Crestline, and I only remember seeing it for > those two summers. It was an ALCO RS1,2,3 (I think). Any information would > be appreciated. > Dick Lemin > Napa, Ca. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:12:32 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: [PRR] PRR: Passenger/Business Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b2d51d46d9831da63eb6d4ef16fe75f6 A question for you passenger devotees out there. I got up on the roof of the Clement Car (PRR 7507) at the Galveston Railroad Museum yesterday and found it in poor shape. The roof coating is hard as a rock and is fragmenting, leaving the exposed metal to rust. I am trying to restore stuff to as near prototype as possible. Does anyone know what type of coating PRR used on their roofs? The material on the car is a thin layer of something, perhaps tar or mastic, with a coat of silver over it. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551-5926 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR] Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:19:59 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7adcd77649ec749f4fd7b4857df364e0 The blue D&H scheme did not come into play until the RS-11s were delivered in 1960 or 61. The RS-2s were sold to PRR in the early 1950s. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Friedlein To: dick lemin Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 5:14 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR] >Dick, > >I think someone else may have replied that you may have seen a leased BAR >loco. However, if it was an RS-2 (?) you were probably looking at one of the >units that PRR bought from the D&H. I don't know how long it took the Pennsy >to get around to painting them, but they did stay in D&H colors (plain blue >with yellow or buff-type lettering) for a while after acquisition. > >Chuck Friedlein > >dick lemin wrote: > >> Can somebody out there shed some light on this? As a kid growing up in Ada, >> Ohio during the early 50's, I used to enjoy going down to the tracks and >> watch the local switcher work at the grain elevator in the summer. During >> the summers of 55-56 I remember an unusual sight. The switcher was painted >> medium blue with dulux glod lettering. Was this an experimental paint >> scheme? The engine came out of Crestline, and I only remember seeing it for >> those two summers. It was an ALCO RS1,2,3 (I think). Any information would >> be appreciated. >> Dick Lemin >> Napa, Ca. >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Passenger/Business Cars Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:29:14 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 05bda7e7c26ede9b4157f46fbb164fc8 It was a heavy black paint mixed with tar. We put tons of it on the roofs of everything with wheels under it when I was Gang Foreman at Penn Coach Yard in Phila. (1962). I don't recall the manufacturer's name, but that was 37 years ago and HELL I couldn't tell you what brand I used to paint my own house with 3 years ago! Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Donald E. Harper, Jr. To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 5:23 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR: Passenger/Business Cars >A question for you passenger devotees out there. > >I got up on the roof of the Clement Car (PRR 7507) at the Galveston Railroad >Museum yesterday and found it in poor shape. The roof coating is hard as a rock >and is fragmenting, leaving the exposed metal to rust. > >I am trying to restore stuff to as near prototype as possible. Does anyone know >what type of coating PRR used on their roofs? The material on the car is a thin >layer of something, perhaps tar or mastic, with a coat of silver over it. > >Don Harper >Texas A&M Marine Lab >5007 Avenue U >Galveston, TX 77551-5926 >409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 >harperd@tamug.tamu.edu > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:47:49 EDT Subject: [PRR] Bar Harbor Express X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 24cf71e2ad1fef01a969427ee92fe37f Folks, The Bar Harbor made it's last run, as a westbound, on Sep 5, 1960, it's last year of operation. It was always a Pullman-only train, carrying no coachs. The B&M took over at Worchester, MA, not Lowell. Interestingly, the daytime counterpart East Wind was covered in the B&M's Bulletin many years ago, but I don't know if the Keystone ever did any coverage of this service. The train also carried cars to Rockland, Maine and I think that leg of the trip did carry coachs from Portland east. As regards ferry service to Bar Harbor, it quit in 1931 and buses carried passengers over a causeway to the posh resort. I don't actually recall the original question, but the train has to be Bar Harbor Express( I hope). Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:54:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question The BAR HARBOR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 67653b71bc4f6bfac3fe92e52b9e21e3 In a message dated 99-10-04 13:18:24 EDT, you write: I would particularly like to know how they routed the train around the infamous gap in Boston between South Station and North Station. <> Didn't Lucius Beebe or George Dubin cover this train in one of their books? I'm not close to my library so can't check. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RobMcKII@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:09:23 EDT Subject: [PRR] Current Pittsburgh-Altoona Amtrak X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e149e11f333450148072eb7d93e70830 All, Having briefly been by Railfest this weekend, the Noon westbound Amtrak jogged me into thinking about taking Rail to get from Altoona to Pittsburgh and back for a Saturday evening Hockey game. (Barb's family lives in Altoona, and we frequently jaunt to Pittsburgh from there, usually by car) Getting there is fairly convenient, allowing plenty of time to walk around prior to the game. Getting back is another story. First train back is not till 8:43am the next morning. Current scheduling requires finding a hotel for the night. Would much prefer a midnight, 1am or 2am departure back to Altoona. I have my doubts that complaining to Amtrak would make them think about the schedule, nor one voice be enough to have a commuter service in the corridor. Maybe I'd have better luck talking to Reps Murtha and Shuster. But they are big highway men. Rob McKeever Alexandria VA Pittsburgh Penguins Season Ticket Holder ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 23:23:01 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: [PRR] PRR publication directory X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 62450545eff78a26dd7fd6f59d6502f3 Fellow local SPF Rick Bell, who has provided much of the material for my site, recently dropped off a couple employe timetables for my perusal (1939 Central Division, Western PA Division, Conemaugh Division and 1916 Central Division, Renovo Division). He suggested that a list be made of PRR publications, their dates, and the e-mail addresses of those who own them. That way we can know what info is out there, & who to turn to for answers. Great idea! I will soon have a page up (starting with his stuff). I encourage any list members having such items who wish to participate to e-mail me with a list of what you have, & I'll post it. Let's get our own archive going! -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net Visit the PRR P&E/E&P web-site at http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:29:36 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question The BAR HARBOR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 59a27053e1351bd0ecfa7f85aaf964b3 In a message dated 10/4/1999 12:18:24 PM Central Daylight Time, herzog1@gate.net writes: << This would make a GREAT article for a future issue of the Keystone if someone can assemble all of the facts. >> Got to my library. As I surmised, pages 946-963 of The Trains We Rode, Volume II, by Lucius Beebe and Charles Clegg, covers the Bar Harbor Express in all its glory, i.e., the steam and heavyweight years. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:57:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Will S-E Subject: Re: [PRR] Current Pittsburgh-Altoona Amtrak X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 37c22c921c6414a77eeec741e4055cd0 On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 RobMcKII@aol.com wrote: >SNIP > >I have my doubts that complaining to Amtrak would make them think about the >schedule, nor one voice be enough to have a commuter service in the corridor. > Maybe I'd have better luck talking to Reps Murtha and Shuster. But they are >big highway men. As in Bud Shuster....the fellow who got in so much trouble with the national media for championing that nice little place called STEAMTOWN!!!! Doesn't sound like much of a highway man to me. > > > >Rob McKeever >Alexandria VA >Pittsburgh Penguins Season Ticket Holder > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Trivia Question Can U Name That Train From: "Michael E. Allen" Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 00:56:33 EDT X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e1a2aaa35e2ce2af2dbc043fbaff50a2 Bill, et alia: My entry is the BAR HARBOR Working from the August 1959 OFFICIAL GUIDE I found train 220-184 departing Washington, DC Fridays at 2:00p and arriving in Bangor, Maine at 7:45 the next morning. The return is 185-201 departing Bangor at 5:45 pm Sunday and arriving in DC at 11:45 on Monday. From the equipment notes it seems that the train ran combined with 142 between DC and Philadelphia and with 111 from New York to DC. The PRR Guide entry gives no clue as to the routing between Providence, RI and Portland. However since it is carded at Providence it probably ran via Worcester , Ayre, Lowell, and Lawrence as did the other NH/B&M through trains. On the Maine Central it ran via Lewiston The line-up shown is Coaches: DC > To Phil [EB] NY > DC [WB] Parlor: DC > Phil [EB] NY > DC [WB] Lounge: 8 sec. Buffet NY > Bangor Sleepers: 10-6 DC > Bangor 10-6 Phil > Bangor [2 cars] 10-6 Phil > Portland 14-4 NY > Bangor [2 cars] Diner: Phil > New Haven [EB] NY > Phil AND NY > DC [WB] The Maine Central entry does not show a connection from Bangor to Bar Harbor but the map accompanying shows a bus. A check of the staion index only shows the CN Ferry. I don't have summer Guides here for 60, '61, or '62 so I can't tell you when it came off. MEA ________________________________________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY Telephone 609-683-0356 Management Services Telecopier 609-683-0192 Michael E. Allen meallen@juno.com W.R Allen Associates wrallenassoc@earthlink.net On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:03:31 -0400 "Bill Volkmer" writes: >Here is a trivia question. Let's see who gets the answer first and how many wrong answers come in. > >During the late 1950s the Pennsy operated a passenger train to a resort location, only on Friday afternoons and returned on Sunday evening. Can you name the train, and its origin and destination? > >If you can correctly name the train, can you also let us know what the consist was and when it last operated? My guess would be in 1960 or 1961 but am not sure. > >Hint: It was advertised only obscurely in the Form 1 Timetables. > >Bill Volkmer > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Re: Business Car Roof Paint Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:07:43 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4593a425e828bb6a979ea89325c5d216 I will NEVER forget the day (at Penn Coach Yard, Phila) a guy was climbing up the ladder on the side of one of the coaches with the (5 gal.) bucket of roof paint/tar in his right hand and the brush handle in his left hand and holding onto the ladder at the same time when the ladder slid out from under him. I had another guy sitting in the gauge of the track below putting on a new steam connector. Murphy's Law came into effect. The bucket ended upside down on his head just like the silent movies. Does THAT answer your question? Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Don Harper To: Bill Volkmer Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Passenger/Business Cars >>It was a heavy black paint mixed with tar. We put tons of it on the roofs >>of everything with wheels under it when I was Gang Foreman at Penn Coach >>Yard in Phila. (1962). I don't recall the manufacturer's name, but that was >>37 years ago and HELL I couldn't tell you what brand I used to paint my own >>house with 3 years ago! > > >Bill > >How did you apply it - with a brush? And how thick was the coating? And did you paint it silver after the stuff dried a little? > >Thanks > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR publication directory Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:29:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f7ffc465d9dd6a13c6695f4f4f3b2b72 > Fellow local SPF Rick Bell, who has provided much of the material for my > site, recently dropped off a couple employe timetables for my perusal > (1939 Central Division, Western PA Division, Conemaugh Division and > 1916 Central Division, Renovo Division). He suggested that a list be > made of PRR publications, their dates, and the e-mail addresses of > those who own them. That way we can know what info is out there, & who > to turn to for answers. Great idea! I will soon have a page up > (starting with his stuff). I encourage any list members having such > items who wish to participate to e-mail me with a list of what you have, > & I'll post it. Let's get our own archive going! I have something on a slightly similar topic. Please see "Document Names & Numbers" at http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Documentation/Forms/ -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:44:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Patrick James Rieger Subject: Re: [PRR] Current Pittsburgh-Altoona Amtrak X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c602ce9d09b08098e443a292378a9957 On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Will S-E wrote: > As in Bud Shuster....the fellow who got in so much trouble with the > national media for championing that nice little place called STEAMTOWN!!!! > Doesn't sound like much of a highway man to me. It could be looked at this way: Steamtown is a tourist attraction bringing in tourist dollars. Schuster could still be a highway man for it can mean a lot of money for the people who build and maintain them. I think the key here is to consider how much money any project will bring in (a little something I learned in one of my community planning classes). Patrick ============================================================================ "...if anyone has bolted together a mechanism with just fifty percent of the steam locomotive's solid spiritual satisfaction, he hasn't filed for a patent yet." -David P. Morgan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick James Rieger, http://www.dementia.org/~patrick ============================================================================ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR publication directory Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:53:53 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e44afbd2f59b9a9136372095f1ab1277 Jerry & Listers: I took great interest in your mention of a 1916 Renovo Division employees timetable! I'd love to get a copy of it, and also I'd really love to get a copy of a Renovo Division ETT around 1940. I have Williamsport Div. 1940, and Regional timetables from Williamsport to Biffalo for 1950-ish and 1960-ish. I don't necessarily need an original, but having a copy, especially of 1940 vintage Renovo Div. would help me immensly in designing my Renovo Division WWII layout! I'm certainly willing to share copies of mine for the copying cost, although I'd need a bit of lead time. Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling Renovo Division WWII -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Shickler To: PRR-talk Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 11:22 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR publication directory >Fellow local SPF Rick Bell, who has provided much of the material for my >site, recently dropped off a couple employe timetables for my perusal >(1939 Central Division, Western PA Division, Conemaugh Division and >1916 Central Division, Renovo Division). He suggested that a list be >made of PRR publications, their dates, and the e-mail addresses of >those who own them. That way we can know what info is out there, & who >to turn to for answers. Great idea! I will soon have a page up >(starting with his stuff). I encourage any list members having such >items who wish to participate to e-mail me with a list of what you have, >& I'll post it. Let's get our own archive going! > >-- >Jerry Shickler >e-mail: geshick@velocity.net >Visit the PRR P&E/E&P web-site at >http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Broadway limited with Red K-4 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:47:21 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9e129074c37b1515cf6f3faaee04eae0 Here is a nice picture of the Broadway with a red K-4, but I warn you it takes about 3 to 4 minutes to download. However, it is worth the wait if you are interested in the subject matter: http://railfan.net/railpix/ABPR/october99/10-04-99/broadway_ltd.jpg Like the Disney song: "Some day my prints will come!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:10:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited with Red K-4 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e79c7249a79f92047f7a182a7eaaf665 Very nice painting. But with a 1987 copyright date and a lot of artistic license, historically inaccurate. There is no evidence to suggest that the streamline version of the K4s was never painted Tuscan or any shade of red. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:28:44 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited with Red K-4 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f71555ee16c450c2728c910658e7264f Bill said: >Here is a nice picture of the Broadway with a red K-4, but I warn you it >takes about 3 to 4 minutes to download. However, it is worth the wait if >you are interested in the subject matter: >Rich Orr replied >Very nice painting. But with a 1987 copyright date and a lot of artistic >license, historically inaccurate. There is no evidence to suggest that the >streamline version of the K4s was never painted Tuscan or any shade of red. > Well, that's 'cause it ain't RED! to pick the nit...it's BRONZE, and it that color is appropriate for the Loewy designed streamlined K4... Happy rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "monchie of nyc" Subject: RE: [PRR] Current Pittsburgh-Altoona Amtrak Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:22:55 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0886c07593e9de1af3e156b4ebd346df I believe Rep. McDade is the one who got so much bad media publicity for supporting Steamtown. And to say Bud Shuster is a big highway man is an understatement. He supports some highway pork that even ticks off a lot of road geeks. Check out the misc.transport.roads newsgroup or some of the road geek websites. I don't know what his record wrt Amtrak is, though. - monchie of nyc -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Will S-E Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 12:57 AM To: RobMcKII@aol.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Current Pittsburgh-Altoona Amtrak On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 RobMcKII@aol.com wrote: >SNIP > >I have my doubts that complaining to Amtrak would make them think about the >schedule, nor one voice be enough to have a commuter service in the corridor. > Maybe I'd have better luck talking to Reps Murtha and Shuster. But they are >big highway men. As in Bud Shuster....the fellow who got in so much trouble with the national media for championing that nice little place called STEAMTOWN!!!! Doesn't sound like much of a highway man to me. > > > >Rob McKeever >Alexandria VA >Pittsburgh Penguins Season Ticket Holder > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:51:28 EDT Subject: [PRR] Drawbridge Rule? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 108ea8f7e08a2af5d090636b3912839e Whilst paging through my own "Trains We Rode--Vol II" looking for Bar Harbor Express stuff, I found something fascinating. It's in the "Broadway Ltd" discussion in the PRR section, page 634. To quote: "Sailing of No. 28 from Chicago was protected by "Drawbridge Rule" which provided for a flexible schedule of departure if drawbridges across the Chicago River delayed access to the West Side of town." This doesn't sound very PRR-like to me. I always thought this problem was treated as an "acceptable delay", and trains delayed at any of the three Chicagoland drawbridges were just expected to make up as much time as possible, and would be excused the balance of the delay. Or was this just some kind of special instruction that permitted No.28 to remain at the bumping block in Union Station until the South Branch Bridge was known to be closed? Lines Westers? Anyone?? Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 19:59:41 -0400 From: zak Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited with Red K-4 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 213abbad4cb2a68b3c8b147b7d50ba3a Hi, all. I must say that that is a wonderful picture, historically accurate or not. Now let me show my ignorance with a couple of questions. First, did the Broadway Limited also use the 1920-type heavyweight cars, and if so, up until what year? Second, hmmm... I'm retired from the Army, and looking at some pix of the Army's RR equipment, I notice that they still do the same when I was in...even if it isn't dirty, wash it! Their GP-10s and other cars are spotless. I was wondering if the PRR with the Broadway Limited also kept their locomotives and cars in such condition. I would think it (PRR) would, as the Limited was something of 'high visibility' to the public, but I don't know for sure. Any comments would be appreciated. Zak PS: I found all of the messages concerning the Bar Harbor train great, especially as I live here in Bar Harbor! There is a book here in the local library, which I can take out again, if anyone cares. It deals with the Maine Central, and how that line brought the tourists from Bangor to Bar Harbor. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:10:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited with Red K-4 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 33d1350bf5dc62976628423edde0eb98 In a message dated 10/5/99 5:33:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << Well, that's 'cause it ain't RED! to pick the nit...it's BRONZE, and it that color is appropriate for the Loewy designed streamlined K4... Happy rails Bruce >> OH NO - NOT THIS ARGUMENT - AGAIN ! DICK ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:08:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited with Red K-4 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b2819759a0cbdbf72eba24b0da556e2d Have enjoyed the "talk" about the Bronze color. I suggest it's artistic license. From a photographer point of view, almost anything can be bronze in certain strong slanting rays of the sun late in the day. And, as the westbound races toward the sun......... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:05:04 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] more P-5a trivia X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 863d3494b1133e785bff380fe09ea175 Hi All, In looking up some additional questions from folks on the P-5a I made the following observation...as built, the location of the "F" stencil (ie the "front" end of the loco) is opposite on the P-5a modified and boxcabs!!! On the boxcab, the "F" is on the boiler end (easily seen as the end with the fuel/water tanks hanging down under the body) On the modified, the "F" is on the opposite end. I wonder if this was done to keep the boiler smoke out of the eyes of the engineer as making the boiler end the "F" end would put the stack in front of the cab? (I realize that these units were bidirectional). BTW., after the boilers were removed from the boxcabs, the assignment of the "F" end seems to become random! Finally, in the late 1930's ('39) there apparently existed another paint scheme for modifieds that included 5 lower body stripes, a single upper "whisker" like stripe, and futura lettering and numbering. I would appreciate hearing any information regarding this scheme, as well as unit numbers, locations and dates so that I might add it to my P-5 paint scheme listing! I have been told there are photos of locos #4752 and #4789 in the Sept. 1976 Keystone on page 10, however I don't have access to these photos. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 12:45:56 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: [PRR] X29 battery car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5c63f4bf482e26a9f148158ad6f07c5e Greetings, While looking through the PRRT&HS Freight Car Compendium for something else, I came across a stencilling diagram on page 31 for an X29 in company service as a battery car, rather than MoW service. I've never seen a photo of these cars (Compendium says there were two; #498803 & 498805), but a friend has a B/W photo and says it could be gray or white; however, it's certainly not freight car color. Does anyone have any information on these cars relative to color or other features? Would appreciate anything anyone has to offer. TIA, Chuck Friedlein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 23:36:48 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR publication directory X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e514e1f47ef425e7224f3eb50d679068 Jerry Shickler wrote: > > ... He suggested that a list be made of PRR publications, their > dates, and the e-mail addresses of those who own them. That way we > can know what info is out there, & who to turn to for answers... I got the beginnings of the page up at http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/docindex.htm Any list members having PRR documentation who wish to participate, please e-mail me with a list of what you have, I'll post it as soon as I can. (Please include full titles & dates, & a brief description of what it contains.) Thanks! -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net Visit the PRR P&E/E&P web-site at http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 01:26:02 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: [PRR] P5 marker lights X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0b100272f63f79854935a6c5f1b7dc8f Does anyone know the lens colors for these, and which way any different colors faced? 1. Original boxcabs--upper markers lights, before they were removed 2. Modified body--the lenses at the number boards on the nose 3. Boxcab pilot bar markers (A photo in Pennsy Electric Years shows all lenses to be red--were there any differences from this?) TIA, Chuck Friedlein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] EQ=MOW: X29 battery car Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:35:50 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f0f9bb1f822066132b0b311f4a19583a -----Original Message----- From: errors-267882-326-abbuchan=familyconnect.net@onelist.com [mailto:errors-267882-326-abbuchan=familyconnect.net@onelist.com]On Behalf Of Chuck Friedlein Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 3:46 PM To: (PRR) Subject: [PRR-FAX] EQ=MOW: X29 battery car There is a picture of 498805 on page 64 of Wayner Publications "The Cars of The Pennsylvania Railroad" an undated publication. I would say it came out 15-20 years ago?? I have heard the car was painted white, however, I never saw it. It is a class X-29 equipped for passenger operations - steam line, marker brackets, etc. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] X29 battery car Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:59:52 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: aaa3179f427467e4171672318a47151c We had dozens of old X-29s in company service painted gray and stencilled in black lettering. (These all had steam connectors and were used in passenger service) There was a battery overhaul shop in Altoona near the Second Street gate as I remember it. The batteries were distributed to the various coach yards after overhaul via the company material X-29s. I am not sure what made the battery cars special, but I would imagine they had some sort of special lining that protected the car sides from battery acid splash during transit. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Friedlein To: (PRR) Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 3:58 PM Subject: [PRR] X29 battery car >Greetings, > >While looking through the PRRT&HS Freight Car Compendium for >something else, I came across a stencilling diagram on page >31 for an X29 in company service as a battery car, rather >than MoW service. I've never seen a photo of these cars >(Compendium says there were two; #498803 & 498805), but a >friend has a B/W photo and says it could be gray or white; >however, it's certainly not freight car color. > >Does anyone have any information on these cars relative to >color or other features? > >Would appreciate anything anyone has to offer. > >TIA, >Chuck Friedlein > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:06:56 -0400 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: [PRR] PRR Steam in Chicago X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 41b7248ec40045a5e1f117b71737195e Fellow list denizens: A colleague of mine is preparing an article on the PRR's reponses to smoke abatement regulation in Chicago. He needs a photograph or two showing "smokey" locomotives. My thought would be to look for images of a terminal area, with lots of shifters idling away, or a similar view of an engine servicing facility vic. Chicago during the twenties - forties. Any advicing toward helping locate such images (focused on Chicago, mind) would be appreciated, email vck@andrew.cmu.edu Thanks, Vagel Keller Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] P5 marker lights Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:14:37 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 021483870a5db0c14c9f5371d40281f1 I can give you the definitive answer to that question because I own two of them off the 4704. I formerly owned all four but sold two of them many years ago. They had two red and two yellow lenses. The red ones I believe were only used when the locos were in helper service. Even when we ran them light in "six-packs" for power balancing purposes, we never bothered to rotate the hoods. And for an OBTW, the lenses were used in the roundhouse office for ashtrays so I believe somewhere in my collection I have a yellow PRR ashtray. How's THAT for a piece of little known trivia? -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Friedlein To: (PRR) Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 6:20 AM Subject: [PRR] P5 marker lights >Does anyone know the lens colors for these, and which way >any different colors faced? > >1. Original boxcabs--upper markers lights, before they were >removed >2. Modified body--the lenses at the number boards on the >nose >3. Boxcab pilot bar markers (A photo in Pennsy Electric >Years shows all lenses to be red--were there any differences >from this?) > >TIA, >Chuck Friedlein > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Heavyweights on the Broadway Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:15:50 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 142065e1efdabfef91a042ed8f883f0e Somebody asked yesterday when the heavyweights came off the Broadway. My sources tell me it was 1938. Bill V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Steam in Chicago Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:25:29 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f0083d0ae9013d1fa03ffbd0510e09de Wow. When I worked in Chicago we didn't have any smoking steam locomotives but we had a BUNCH of Fairbanks Morse H-10-44 shifters. There were times when you couldn't even SEE the 55th Street Yard, where they worked most of the time. When they flat-switched cars, they could put any B-6 to shame. We also had one Lima center-cab and it smoked so much that the crews would place a cardboard barrell around the stack to get the smoke up and out of the "canyons" created by the tall boxcars. We used it at the 59th Street yard exclusively. Whenever it was in the shop, we would substitute an FM H-20-44 and they were "smokers" as well. Ahhhh the good old days. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu To: PRR-talk Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 10:10 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Steam in Chicago >Fellow list denizens: > >A colleague of mine is preparing an article on the PRR's reponses to smoke >abatement regulation in Chicago. He needs a photograph or two showing >"smokey" locomotives. My thought would be to look for images of a terminal >area, with lots of shifters idling away, or a similar view of an engine >servicing facility vic. Chicago during the twenties - forties. > >Any advicing toward helping locate such images (focused on Chicago, mind) >would be appreciated, > >email vck@andrew.cmu.edu > >Thanks, >Vagel Keller >Pittsburgh > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:40:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] X29 battery car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3613e6362f933657a0ad65f0525cac94 Hi Chuck, You wrote: > While looking through the PRRT&HS Freight Car Compendium for > something else, I came across a stencilling diagram on page > 31 for an X29 in company service as a battery car, rather > than MoW service. I've never seen a photo of these cars > (Compendium says there were two; #498803 & 498805), but a > friend has a B/W photo and says it could be gray or white; > however, it's certainly not freight car color. > > Does anyone have any information on these cars relative to > color or other features? The book "Cars of the Pennsylvania Railroad" by Wayner has a photo of #498805 on pg 64. Since these cars were in company service and could be considered MofW cars, they may have been painted yellow or grey. Either would appear to be a light color in a B&W photo. I believe Al Buchan had a photo he showed of one of these cars in the recent "Yellow and Grey" presentation he gave at Altoona. I believe Al's photo showed the car has roof hatches to make it easier to load/unload the batteries. This last part is from memory now, so I would not bet my life on it. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:05:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] X29 battery car From: "Jerry Britton" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2c39df283f587be3beb6329ee1cd541d >From: "Claus Schlund" >To: Chuck Friedlein >Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] X29 battery car >Date: Thu, Oct 7, 1999, 10:40 AM > >> While looking through the PRRT&HS Freight Car Compendium for >> something else, I came across a stencilling diagram on page >> 31 for an X29 in company service as a battery car, rather >> than MoW service. I've never seen a photo of these cars >> (Compendium says there were two; #498803 & 498805), but a >> friend has a B/W photo and says it could be gray or white; >> however, it's certainly not freight car color. >> >> Does anyone have any information on these cars relative to >> color or other features? > > The book "Cars of the Pennsylvania Railroad" by Wayner has a photo > of #498805 on pg 64. Since these cars were in company service and could > be considered MofW cars, they may have been painted yellow or grey. > Either would appear to be a light color in a B&W photo. > I believe Al Buchan had a photo he showed of one of these cars in > the recent "Yellow and Grey" presentation he gave at Altoona. I believe > Al's photo showed the car has roof hatches to make it easier > to load/unload the batteries. This last part is from memory > now, so I would not bet my life on it. It took a few posts, but my memory has been jogged... I think these cars were painted silver. Anyone else have this recollection now that I've stated it? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Steam in Chicago Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:27:34 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 400b465072d092e4a5d4a4e0944576cd While not the image that you are looking for Vagel, I was just pondering this same subject after seeing the photo in Staufer's Pennsy Power III showing the outdoor smokejacks used to direct steam locomotive smoke to another area. They resemble oversize water plugs and swing over the locomotive's stack. This is the only photo that I recall seeing showing this device. Anyone have any more info on these? Anyone modeled them yet? This may be another project for Rail Classics, eh Eddy? Jerry Breon -----Original Message----- From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu To: PRR-talk Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 10:13 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Steam in Chicago >Fellow list denizens: > >A colleague of mine is preparing an article on the PRR's reponses to smoke >abatement regulation in Chicago. He needs a photograph or two showing >"smokey" locomotives. My thought would be to look for images of a terminal >area, with lots of shifters idling away, or a similar view of an engine >servicing facility vic. Chicago during the twenties - forties. > >Any advicing toward helping locate such images (focused on Chicago, mind) >would be appreciated, > >email vck@andrew.cmu.edu > >Thanks, >Vagel Keller >Pittsburgh > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] PRR Vol 1 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:43:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0e87453c5df8c02c11840403d5907ee4 Anyone read the review of this book in the latest (Nov 1999) _Trains_ ? Anyone notice the last couple of lines of the review? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Drawbridge Rule? Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:09:12 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 30223efecbd89f78819b9dcd89de5f13 Rich: Delays from drawbridge action may not have been a big concern to the PRR since the NYC, in most cases would have been effected by the same delays. The PRR had 3 drawbridges in the Chicago area on the Fort Wayne Line: 21st Street-Chicago River(Chicago), Calument River (Illinois/Indiana state line), and Indiana Harbor Canal (Whiting, Indiana). The NYC had two drawbridges on their main line, Calument River and Indiana Harbor Canal. Both the PRR and NYC drawbridges at Calumet River were basically side by side and both would have been up or down at any given time. The Indiana Habor Canal drawbridges for the PRR and NYC were not immediately adjacent to eact other but were within a rock's through away; there is a good chance that these bridges would have been effected "almost" simultaneously by the same boat. It was the 21st Street Bridge that was the only additional drawbridge that the PRR had to encounter. In summary, both the PRR's and NYC's passenger trains had similar chances in being delayed by the same navigatable traffic. I am not a knowledgeble on laws on navigatable waterways, but I am wondering if a railroad like the PRR or NYC could secure advance right of way to use the drawbridges for certian pre-determined blocks of time of a given day? Or was drawbridge use always first come - first serve? Just wondering.... Ted Andrews -----Original Message----- From: PRRMAN@aol.com [mailto:PRRMAN@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 5:51 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Drawbridge Rule? Whilst paging through my own "Trains We Rode--Vol II" looking for Bar Harbor Express stuff, I found something fascinating. It's in the "Broadway Ltd" discussion in the PRR section, page 634. To quote: "Sailing of No. 28 from Chicago was protected by "Drawbridge Rule" which provided for a flexible schedule of departure if drawbridges across the Chicago River delayed access to the West Side of town." This doesn't sound very PRR-like to me. I always thought this problem was treated as an "acceptable delay", and trains delayed at any of the three Chicagoland drawbridges were just expected to make up as much time as possible, and would be excused the balance of the delay. Or was this just some kind of special instruction that permitted No.28 to remain at the bumping block in Union Station until the South Branch Bridge was known to be closed? Lines Westers? Anyone?? Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Drawbridge Rule? Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:33:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7c74849060ef84a9c02427b7f93eef00 Andrews, Ted scribit: > I am not a knowledgeble on laws on navigatable waterways, but I am wondering > if a railroad like the PRR or NYC could secure advance right of way to use > the drawbridges for certian pre-determined blocks of time of a given day? Or > was drawbridge use always first come - first serve? A lawyer friend of mine -- I'm surrounded by lawyers in my family and among friends, whether this be for better or worse -- once explained to me that this is an example of the glory of the Common Law. Essentially the same rules apply when RRs cross one another. Here is my understanding from several questions to lawyers and conversations with them, on this topic. As a generalization, the Common Law principle is that "first on the premises" gets priority. If the river was there first, and boat traffic existed on it, (and this is nearly universally true for RR river crossings), river traffic has priority by right of having been first. The RR (or road, or canal) must build the bridge, maintain it, and must yield. However, should the bridge be built over a non-navigable stream with no traffic, and then that stream be chosen by someone for dredging and conversion into a shipping channel, the cost, maintenance, etc., fall to the canal, and water traffic would have to yield to rail/road traffic. The interesting situations develop when, e.g., the river had traffic before the RR, the RR built a solid bridge that allowed the existing traffic to pass freely, then someone wants to run some other kind of ships that never existed on that river, and demands a drawbridge etc. If that new traffic requires modifications to the river, that's more easily decided, but if it does not ... Now, Common Law is unwritten. It may be superseded by written law. Further, special arrangements may be made for certain locations. Etc. Etc. Etc. What I provide above is a rule of thumb, nothing more. In other words, Your Mileage May Vary. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:51:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Will S-E Subject: RE: [PRR] Drawbridge Rule? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e078d4e07c72df637c2825d15bc76fd9 I have seen a CN local rulebook for the Harbor Draw across the Niagara River here in Buffalo and it basically says that the opening of the draw for boats took 1st priority over the movement of trains. As soon as I find the source document I will post it up. On Thu, 7 Oct 1999, Andrews, Ted wrote: >Rich: > >Delays from drawbridge action may not have been a big concern to the PRR >since the NYC, in most cases would have been effected by the same delays. >The PRR had 3 drawbridges in the Chicago area on the Fort Wayne Line: 21st >Street-Chicago River(Chicago), Calument River (Illinois/Indiana state line), >and Indiana Harbor Canal (Whiting, Indiana). The NYC had two drawbridges on >their main line, Calument River and Indiana Harbor Canal. Both the PRR and >NYC drawbridges at Calumet River were basically side by side and both would >have been up or down at any given time. The Indiana Habor Canal drawbridges >for the PRR and NYC were not immediately adjacent to eact other but were >within a rock's through away; there is a good chance that these bridges >would have been effected "almost" simultaneously by the same boat. It was >the 21st Street Bridge that was the only additional drawbridge that the PRR >had to encounter. In summary, both the PRR's and NYC's passenger trains had >similar chances in being delayed by the same navigatable traffic. > >I am not a knowledgeble on laws on navigatable waterways, but I am wondering >if a railroad like the PRR or NYC could secure advance right of way to use >the drawbridges for certian pre-determined blocks of time of a given day? Or >was drawbridge use always first come - first serve? > >Just wondering.... > > >Ted Andrews > >-----Original Message----- >From: PRRMAN@aol.com [mailto:PRRMAN@aol.com] >Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 5:51 PM >To: prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] Drawbridge Rule? > > >Whilst paging through my own "Trains We Rode--Vol II" looking >for Bar Harbor Express stuff, I found something fascinating. It's in >the "Broadway Ltd" discussion in the PRR section, page 634. > >To quote: "Sailing of No. 28 from Chicago was protected by >"Drawbridge Rule" which provided for a flexible schedule of departure >if drawbridges across the Chicago River delayed access to the >West Side of town." > >This doesn't sound very PRR-like to me. I always thought this >problem was treated as an "acceptable delay", and trains delayed >at any of the three Chicagoland drawbridges were just expected to >make up as much time as possible, and would be excused the >balance of the delay. > >Or was this just some kind of special instruction that permitted >No.28 to remain at the bumping block in Union Station until the >South Branch Bridge was known to be closed? Lines Westers? >Anyone?? > >Rich Copeland > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] P5 marker light color orientation Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:51:58 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0488e6df7137500a5c42a98cabf0bdca No, as I remember them, the like colors were 180 from each other. You rotated the hood by lifting a spring loaded clamp and rotated the hood 90 degrees to change the color orientation. Some of the locos had blank chunks of steel in place of the glass markers so they only had two lenses. There was little or NO consistency about the PRR. You should know THAT! Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Friedlein To: Bill Volkmer Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] P5 marker lights >Hi Bill, > >Thanks for your reply. The OBTW comment is a nice bit of trivia--sort of like >car racers using old pistons for ashtrays after they rebuild an engine. > >Do I take it that the two colors of lenses were at 90 degrees from each other >(same color), and each color pair was 180 degrees from the other? To put it in >terms of a 360 degree circle: the two red lenses might be at 0 & 90 degrees and >the yellow lenses at 180 & 270 degrees. Then the hoods rotated so that the red >lenses faced forward/rearward and also outward when in helper service (as >below)? And would the same be true for both the upper markers when present on >the original boxcabs, as well as the pilot beam markers? > > R R > R Y -------------------------------------- Y R > Y | | Y > | | > Y | | Y > R Y-------------------------------------- Y R > R R > >Also, you didn't say anything about the lenses on the number boards of the >modifieds. Do you know anything about their colors and positions? > >This is getting interesting. Maybe one of these days I'll be able to put the >correct color marker jewels in my old ALCO Models P5a locos and paint them >correctly. A friend of mine gave me a few sheets of the single loop stripe >stuff. They've been packed away for years, but for the life of me now I can't >remember if they were in gold or buff---hmmmmm. > >TIA, >Chuck > >Bill Volkmer wrote: > >> I can give you the definitive answer to that question because I own two of >> them off the 4704. I formerly owned all four but sold two of them many >> years ago. They had two red and two yellow lenses. The red ones I believe >> were only used when the locos were in helper service. Even when we ran >> them light in "six-packs" for power balancing purposes, we never bothered to >> rotate the hoods. >> >> And for an OBTW, the lenses were used in the roundhouse office for ashtrays >> so I believe somewhere in my collection I have a yellow PRR ashtray. >> >> How's THAT for a piece of little known trivia? >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chuck Friedlein >> To: (PRR) >> Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 6:20 AM >> Subject: [PRR] P5 marker lights >> >> >Does anyone know the lens colors for these, and which way >> >any different colors faced? >> > >> >1. Original boxcabs--upper markers lights, before they were >> >removed >> >2. Modified body--the lenses at the number boards on the >> >nose >> >3. Boxcab pilot bar markers (A photo in Pennsy Electric >> >Years shows all lenses to be red--were there any differences >> >from this?) >> > >> >TIA, >> >Chuck Friedlein >> > >> > >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> > >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] X29 battery car colors Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:31:18 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8046ed328ae6683a9e96068e61bacece In the late 1950s and early 1960s I remember them being painted gray and as Alan Buchan says they had marker light brackets on the top as they usually went on the tail end of passenger trains. I believe one of the recent issues of the Keystone showed the ubiquitous 44 tonner sitting at Altoona passenger station with a couple waiting for the afternoon passenger train 25 or 33 to come along to tack them onto the rear. The company fuel oil and lube oil tank cars and the wheel cars were all painted the same drab gray. If the ones equipped for batteries were painted differently, I was not aware of it. I don't remember the marker lights on the P-5 modifieds. Check the various books on the subject. Bill. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Friedlein To: Bill Volkmer Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] X29 battery car >Hi Bill: > >This is really getting good, I can't believe how much I'm learning. I forgot to >look in my copy of Wayner's book on PRR cars, as somewone else suggested, and >found a photo there--looks like a company photo. > >The question is; do you remember what color the car body was painted? Was it >white, aluminum/silver, or MoW yellow? > >Chuck > >Bill Volkmer wrote: > >> We had dozens of old X-29s in company service painted gray and stencilled in >> black lettering. (These all had steam connectors and were used in passenger >> service) There was a battery overhaul shop in Altoona near the Second >> Street gate as I remember it. The batteries were distributed to the various >> coach yards after overhaul via the company material X-29s. I am not sure >> what made the battery cars special, but I would imagine they had some sort >> of special lining that protected the car sides from battery acid splash >> during transit. >> >> Bill V. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chuck Friedlein >> To: (PRR) >> Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 3:58 PM >> Subject: [PRR] X29 battery car >> >> >Greetings, >> > >> >While looking through the PRRT&HS Freight Car Compendium for >> >something else, I came across a stencilling diagram on page >> >31 for an X29 in company service as a battery car, rather >> >than MoW service. I've never seen a photo of these cars >> >(Compendium says there were two; #498803 & 498805), but a >> >friend has a B/W photo and says it could be gray or white; >> >however, it's certainly not freight car color. >> > >> >Does anyone have any information on these cars relative to >> >color or other features? >> > >> >Would appreciate anything anyone has to offer. >> > >> >TIA, >> >Chuck Friedlein >> > >> > >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> > >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Re: P5 Marker Lights Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:03:47 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bd41a1da89af50c21196cc535f316961 Now that I have had time to rethink this, I think MOST of the P-5s had one red, one yellow and two blanks. I think possibly the ones that had four lenses was done so that if a swinging errant jumper cable smashed a lens, they could simply flip the hood 180 degrees and have a fresh (i.e. unbroken) lens. Like I said, there were some of each. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Friedlein To: Volkmer Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 3:12 PM Subject: P5 Marker Lights >Hi Bill, > >Again, thanks for this information. True, I know there was >a lot of inconsistencies in the way things were done by the >Pennsy; both in stated practices, and in what was actually >done. However, sometimes just when you think something was >really rigidly enforced, you find out that wasn't always the >case, and vice versa. > >Now to continue searching for the elusive marker colors on >the modifieds. > >Chuck > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:01:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Heavyweights on the Broadway X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fd2673fd8745ba7942b1db5e61ad87e0 In a message dated 10/7/1999 9:25:41 AM Central Daylight Time, herzog1@gate.net writes: << Somebody asked yesterday when the heavyweights came off the Broadway. My sources tell me it was 1938. >> That is when the new Broadway in Fleet of Modernism colors was initiated, so it makes sense. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:39:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway limited with Red K-4 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0188b82aaacb75a39c3055ccb6753631 In a message dated 10/5/1999 10:16:21 PM Central Daylight Time, DWSNRHS@aol.com writes: << Have enjoyed the "talk" about the Bronze color. I suggest it's artistic license. From a photographer point of view, almost anything can be bronze in certain strong slanting rays of the sun late in the day. >> I have been away for a few days and deleted most of the first posts on this subject. Not to rehash ground gone over, but was the discussion on bronze or gunmetal (was the latter mentioned?) over the original post and was the photo of 3678? If so, I would only request that someone post me offline with the URL where the photo resides. Thanks. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:27:52 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GR&I X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 122c2a75c561378da187417d67dc4f97 In a message dated 10/7/1999 6:45:18 PM Central Daylight Time, barbierg@msu.edu writes: << Does anyone know where I can get information on the GR&I line from Grand Rapids, MI to Mackinaw City, MI from 1945 to 1955? I'm looking for information on motive power, consists, etc... >> September 1983 Keystone had an article about the division in 1942, with descriptions of trains. The old Pennsy Journal had 1939 consists, some of which may have not changed much until after the war. the Keystone article includes the 1949 loco roster (all-diesel, except one H10). Two EP2's (E7's )were on the roster for passenger service at that date. Most of the locos were Baldwin switchers, but a couple FS-20's and some F's were on hand. Two Rail motor cars were still on the roster then. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: endeimling@mindspring.com Subject: [PRR] PRRH&TS FC Compend Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:49:45 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 78f4d92bb2c8d8e9a001234a8d862fd3 Can someone clear up a question I have? What is the PRRH&TS Freight Car Compendium? I saw a reference in a recent email. Is it still available? Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:25:30 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRH&TS FC Compend X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 75a4d9cb0eb908e46981c6f01c1ad889 Gene, It is a compendium (or a compilation) in 11x17 panorama format of lettering diagrams for Pennsy freight cars covering the period 1954-1968. It was published by the Middle Division (Nicholas Seman) in 1989, not the PRRT&HS. The cover and title pages say it is Volume 1, but so far as I know, no subsequent volumes have been published. Also, I do not think it has ever been reprinted, even though it has been out of print almost since it first hit the street. Very rarely can you find a copy advertised for sale, and then they go for premium prices. This should explain what it is, but sorry to say that a copy will be hard to find. Chuck Friedlein endeimling@mindspring.com wrote: > Can someone clear up a question I have? What is the PRRH&TS Freight Car > Compendium? I saw a reference in a recent email. > Is it still available? > Gene Deimling > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 07:39:56 -0500 From: Richard Wallis Subject: Re: [PRR] GR&I X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e4af08cb2445047c408c2cc3a3341368 Geoff Barbier wrote: > Does anyone know where I can get information on the GR&I line from Grand > Rapids, MI to Mackinaw City, MI from 1945 to 1955? Don't we still have a Grand Rapids chapter of the PRRT&HS? Jim Winslow used to be the principle envoy from this area--I don't have my Keystones from the early 1990s handy, but Jim's address would be in most of the issues from that era. Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:26:50 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg / 1954 / Freight Ops From: "Jerry Britton" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 749f3f2c57580c7bc2d8617570a8eb77 All but the newest subscribers know that I am modeling the Harrisburg Passenger Station area in Sept. 1954. Most of you also know that I put together "24 Hours At Harrisburg" -- a 24-hour chronology of train movements through the station (http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/). The passenger portion of that chronology was based on the Sept. 24 timetables. However, not having the ETT of that date, the freight schedules were based on the April '54 ETT. Lister Rich Copeland has pulled through for me and loaned me the Sept. '54 ETT, allowing me to update the chronology. (Thanks, Rich!) There have been both additions and deletions in the freight listings. Unfortunately, all of my "named" freights have dropped off, and I have very little block information on the remaining trains. I have the 1952 Arranged Freight Trains schedule, and another for '55. Does anyone have one for effective for Sept. 54? I need the block information for the following freights passing through Harrisburg: P-17 (11:20 a.m.) ER-3 (11:25 a.m.) - may be a transfer between HBG and Enola HP-1 (4:30 p.m.) BF-7 (7:45 p.m.) NL-7 (8:30 p.m.) - may be a HBG originating BF-14 (3:00 a.m.) HPY-2 (7:00 a.m.) M-24 (9:30 a.m.) M-20 (11:59 a.m.) We also discussed many months ago the route of the TrucTrains, introduced in June '54. The ETT clocks them at Paoli, PARK, COLA, and DAY. So, they took the passenger route out of Philadelphia to PARK, then the Atglen & Susquehanna / York Haven line into Enola. Shucks...can't model them running through Harrisburg!!! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg / 1954 / Freight Ops Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:48:42 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: df452657690c5da9df49086a50c8c09f My guess would be an "ER" designation would be Enola to Rutherford which was a pretty common exchange/interchange. in my time in Harrisburg, I seem to remember them coming onto the main at Royalton and changing crews at Riley Street. Don't have any idea when that practice started. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 9:34 AM Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg / 1954 / Freight Ops >All but the newest subscribers know that I am modeling the Harrisburg >Passenger Station area in Sept. 1954. Most of you also know that I put >together "24 Hours At Harrisburg" -- a 24-hour chronology of train movements >through the station (http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/). > >The passenger portion of that chronology was based on the Sept. 24 >timetables. However, not having the ETT of that date, the freight schedules >were based on the April '54 ETT. Lister Rich Copeland has pulled through for >me and loaned me the Sept. '54 ETT, allowing me to update the chronology. >(Thanks, Rich!) > >There have been both additions and deletions in the freight listings. >Unfortunately, all of my "named" freights have dropped off, and I have very >little block information on the remaining trains. > >I have the 1952 Arranged Freight Trains schedule, and another for '55. Does >anyone have one for effective for Sept. 54? I need the block information for >the following freights passing through Harrisburg: > >P-17 (11:20 a.m.) >ER-3 (11:25 a.m.) - may be a transfer between HBG and Enola >HP-1 (4:30 p.m.) >BF-7 (7:45 p.m.) >NL-7 (8:30 p.m.) - may be a HBG originating > >BF-14 (3:00 a.m.) >HPY-2 (7:00 a.m.) >M-24 (9:30 a.m.) >M-20 (11:59 a.m.) > >We also discussed many months ago the route of the TrucTrains, introduced in >June '54. The ETT clocks them at Paoli, PARK, COLA, and DAY. So, they took >the passenger route out of Philadelphia to PARK, then the Atglen & >Susquehanna / York Haven line into Enola. Shucks...can't model them running >through Harrisburg!!! >--------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 10:35:39 -0500 From: Richard Wallis Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Vol 1 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 184f80d48622ee322c5d53ae19e6a53e Mark Bej wrote: > Anyone read the review of this book in the latest (Nov 1999) _Trains_ ? > > Anyone notice the last couple of lines of the review? Mark: I did. And yes, I noticed. I also never weighed in when you all were discussing this Lines West picture problem thread a month ago. Since I am currently in picture search mode and dredging the entire area between Indianapolis and St. Louis and north to Peoria and St. Joseph, I have some observations. For starters, it never made sense to me that there just weren't any photographs being made along Lines West--as long as there are trains, there will be boys and men at lineside watching them (and photgraphing them, too). The problem is: what kind/type of pictures are they and how do you get them in general circulation. My experience so far has been generally encouraging, even though I was prepared to be disappointed--the time frame I am working in (1850-1905) does not help matters any. But lo and behold, there seems to be a nice (although not large) amount of material to work with. It's just not in the railfan mainstream--neither generated by well-known railfan photographers (or sometimes, by railfans of any kind), nor maintained by railfan collectors per se. You'll find most of it at your local library, or in the dusty archives of your local, small-town historical and/or genealogical society--so where should you be looking? I bring this up because, if we are serious about preserving historical images of the railroad, we need to be heading out to the hinterlands to see that this stuff is gathered and preserved. One other very important caveat: it needs to be saved as photographic negative-based images, not exclusively digital imaging. Here is your wake-up call: current technology notwithstanding, digital images do not reproduce well in book publishing. Publishers require negative-generated prints for the best quality. Therefore, it is critical to preserve negatives and prints the old-fashioned way as well as short-form digital images. So, while the discussion as to the reasons for such a dearth of Lines West photos might be interesting--the real point is that there is probably more out there than you might suppose. It just needs to be discovered, saved and published. And it needs to be done soon, BEFORE the avaricious collectors dealing on ebay make it cost prohibitive to do so. Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:00:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Will S-E Subject: [PRR] Buffalo Model RR Club Open House X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9ae8dfa289f76b23e7b8e0caaca7055c Please pass along to anyone you think would be interested or who are in the area The Buffalo Model RR Club is having their semi-annual open house soon Sat November 6th 1-6pm Sun November 7th 1-6pm There is a small donation at the door Check out http://BuffaloCentral.Railfan.net/ for the details...All are welcome. Come and join us for a great time. Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] S Scale X-29 project Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:32:52 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f851d2f6edcb1fa9dcbb779bf84e774a Dear Pennsy Fans, I would like to briefly inform you of a new S Scale brass X-29 project. We are only making 120 of them and have 80 of the sold. This will be the most accurately detailed X-29 produced in model form with such details as correct draft gear, the correct Railway Express equipment, and the patch panel. There are 5 varieties of car bodies and 7 paint schemes being offered. This project is being produced for the love of the PRR and for the need of an X-29 in S Scale. With quantity discounts you will be able to purchase these museum quality models for close to our cost. If you have ever been to any of the PRR T & HS annual conventions, you have probably seen either my models or me there. Our website has been recently updated. Please pay us a visit at www.pennsysmodels.com or email at info@pennsysmodels.com Thank You Bill Lane Pennsy S Models P.O. Box 5252 Deptford N.J. 08096 (856) 848-5133 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 20:45:01 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: [PRR] Emergency Surplus Publications Sale X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9790a084537cfb99d57868708f0a8a99 Greetings, I realize it is a bit unusual to advertise things for sale (except for one list that this is being posted on), so please forgive my boldness. Since this is going to about six different lists, some of you may receive it more than once. I will very shortly be moving (fast notice) and have many duplicate magazines from a one-time consignment purchase that I'd like to sell CHEAP (as in only $1.00 each plus shipping). These are full of freight car, passenger car information, as well as covering many railroads, traction lines, modeling, and also UP and SP employee magazines. Something for most everyone. Fill in some of the holes in your collections now! All items sold on first-come-first-served basis; and since they're so cheap and I need to pack up the whole house, all sales have to be final. Payment terms are in the file with the list. To keep this short, those who are interested please contact me off list at and I'll e-mail you a file of the sale items in MSWord format. Thanks, Chuck Friedlein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 05:28:37 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] Trainstuff LLD X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fe0e650a2ffa30398ca60362ca69b3b4 Hi, Does anybody on the list know how to reach Trainstuff? I heard that they were producing HO scale models of M-54 and MP-54 coaches, etc. Is there any truth to this? Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 08:55:10 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Trainstuff LLD X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3856cda09298031a41d21b31be77805e Hi Frank: Go to www.trainstuffllc.com. And yes, they are showing MP54's in MP-54 double door head end mail car, MP-54 passenger-baggage, MP-54 all passenger coach, as well as MP-54 dummy coach. Although all of these are not available as of now, they sure look like a nice offering. Makes me wish I were modeling under the wire instead of steam and dismals. (I'll never try catenary because it's too much work) Regards, Larry Reynolds Frank Bagrash wrote: > Hi, > > Does anybody on the list know how to reach Trainstuff? I heard that they > were producing HO scale models of M-54 and MP-54 coaches, etc. Is there > any truth to this? > > Frank > > -- > Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 > Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) > P.O. Box 6846 > California State University > Fullerton, California 92834-6846 > E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu > Boogie gently, babies > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Trainstuff LLD Date: Sun, 10 Oct 99 09:25:20 -0400 From: Jerry X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4ad2a120d72f86fbf9bdc243fb8b312f On 10/10/99 8:28 AM, Frank Bagrash (fbagrash@fullerton.edu) wrote: > >Does anybody on the list know how to reach Trainstuff? I heard that they >were producing HO scale models of M-54 and MP-54 coaches, etc. Is there >any truth to this? My "Merchandise Service" has offered Trainstuff products for about a week now. They do indeed offer an MP54 line, as well as a ready-to-run (unpainted) BP20. They may also pull off a big coup, given a few months, so definitely keep your ears open! Again, I am offering their products. Visit my eStore and search for Vendor=Trainstuff and their products will come right up. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service" http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 10:44:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Trainstuff LLD X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 376997eef7392bd277d81dc17024edf7 In a message dated 10/10/1999 8:03:56 AM Central Daylight Time, reynoldl@gte.net writes: << And yes, they are showing MP54's in MP-54 double door head end mail car, MP-54 passenger-baggage, MP-54 all passenger coach, as well as MP-54 dummy coach. Although all of these are not available as of now, they sure look like a nice offering. Makes me wish I were modeling under the wire instead of steam and dismals. >> How late were they used in steam-powered service? How about as gas-electric trailers? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vincent Troia" Subject: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:09:15 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b5ce6fb0d76224d33fbff631c67ea68a I am in the process of adding a bascule bridge to my layout and was interested in learning more about the prototype. Did the PRR have a Scherzer rolling lift? This bridge is available in N scale, albeit out of production. If so, what are the lengths of the leaf (movable span)? Also, did the PRR have any double-leaf spans even though they were seldom used for railroads? Vincent ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SugarJ69@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:41:21 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 17891a1c4b40754a4e630bcddf670aeb To Vincent and other list members, If you take the NJ turnpike north, when you get close to NY and look to your right you will see 1 or 2 Bascule bridges. I'm not sure if they are still in use but they look nice and the next trip up that way, I'll be taking my video camera. I am also planning on a bridge of that type for a module that will connect to my layout. Regards, SugarJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:44:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] Trainstuff LLD X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c5ec5e371dbc0965a3639bd6c60bfe00 Mornin' List - It is Trainstuff LLC. Yes, as Jerry said we do carry the MP54s and are at the moment retooling to make them into one piece shells. This should be completed by the end of the month and Jerry will be receiving some of the first off the line. Thanks to all of you who have been so kind for this last year. With John being gravely ill I have had some big shoes to fill and have done my best. I know the web site photos are terrible but I am working on getting some better ones soon. Seven months ago I couldn't spell Webmaster, now I are one! I haven't been able to keep the BP20s long enough to get a photograph of them but will soon, I promise. You who are on the list could help me out and if I am overstepping my bounds here I apologize in advance. UNDERNEATH DETAILS Would you prefer them separately in a kit or cast on the floor permanently on the MP54s? As most of you know the individual details will add at least $10.00 to the price but if you look at Pennsy Power II some cars did have slightly different locations. So would appreciate your input. You can e-mail us direct off list with your comments. Thanks Dayna and the Gang at Trainstuff LLC PS - We are considering making the coaches before electrification if we can find the right roof. They will still be 65' 5 3/4" in length. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Indiana Tourist Railline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e81004e6bfdcd4c4ed6fdff2e9f261b5 List, Just returned home from a weeks worth of Antique-ing in the mid-west. Stopped at a lot of neat places and a few surprises during the trip. Started in Western Pa. and the first stop was Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio. 1st visit for me. Great! We continued on through Indiana and Illinois stopping through the small towns that followed the raillines. Lots of cabooses on display in these towns. We didn't see any Pennsy's though. Having no plans on where we would end up we made our way down to the Transportation Museum in St. Louis. Got to see the GG1 and the P5. They are still sheltered but in poor condition. Plenty of other locos to view as well like the Big Boy, N&W Y6, ATSF 2-10-4, NKP 2-8-4 and probably 3 dozen+ more pieces of equipment, both loco and rolling stock. We then started our way back home by swinging around St. Louis and back in to Illinois and Indiana taking Rt. 70. While coming through the east side of Indianapolis we spottted a sign for an Antique Mall in the town of Knightstown. Nice little shop. We started talking to the owner and he said that there was a little Tourist Railroad a block away. We made that short walk and was surprised to see what this was. The name of the Line is The Carthage, Knightstown and Shirley Railroad. It was once a NYC line. Just a few miles south of the depot was the PRR Mainline to St. Louis. (Tracks Removed). The Depot is an old NYC Frieght Station with some neat artifacts on display. The Loco power they use is an x-US Air Force 44 Tonner. Rolling stock includes an x UP Caboose, open air riding car, x N&W Caboose, x-Eire Coach and an x-PRR-LI Coach. The porthole windows on the ends have been sealed and the trucks were replaced with something other than Pennsy style. Don't know the car class. We rode the UP caboose on the 5 mile outbound trip. At the other end of the line we asked the engineer for a cab ride back and was accepted with ease. On the return trip while crossing the many country road grade crossings I though I was going to be involved with my first rail accident. You would be surprised as to how many people driving their cars pay no attention to croosing signs and flashers and diesel horns. We must have missed that one guy pulling a trailer by less than an inch. Honestly, we don't know how he managed to stop before we hit him. Everyone was braced for impact. The engineer later told us he hit 7 cars, trucks and farm equipment in the few years that he has run the operation. Overall the trip was exciting. Next year our travel destination remains to be seen. Maybe the Northeast?......Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:36:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 563ada88643f3ec8b5e037b47f70046d The bridges probably referred to are on the Conrail Shared Assets Chemical Coast line, ex-CNJ, I expect. PRR bridges visible from the Turnpike include the mainline Passaic River draw (Dock), mainline Hackensack River draw (Portal), the old main line Hackensack River bridge (Hack?), the H&M/PATH bridge adjacent to it, and the Passaic and Harsimus Branch Passaic River bridge (Point No Point bridge to mariners; this one would require you to look straight down!). These are all lift or swing bridges, not rolling lift or Bascule bridges. Can't be sure but I think the CNJ bridges are rolling lifts, not Bascule-type. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SugarJ69@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:47:16 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fa1bb058ebc580b07541c56744b7e43f I stand corrected. It's hard to get a good look when your driving at 65 MPH. Regards, SugarJ In a message dated 10/10/99 4:44:03 PM !!!First Boot!!!, bobsin@nac.net writes: << The bridges probably referred to are on the Conrail Shared Assets Chemical Coast line, ex-CNJ, I expect. PRR bridges visible from the Turnpike include the mainline Passaic River draw (Dock), mainline Hackensack River draw (Portal), the old main line Hackensack River bridge (Hack?), the H&M/PATH bridge adjacent to it, and the Passaic and Harsimus Branch Passaic River bridge (Point No Point bridge to mariners; this one would require you to look straight down!). These are all lift or swing bridges, not rolling lift or Bascule bridges. Can't be sure but I think the CNJ bridges are rolling lifts, not Bascule-type. John Bobsin >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:48:12 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4b9f005560204397e674bd4363b03eaa A Rolling lift bridge was also made in HO. The same kit was sold by AHM, Tyco and Pola at different times. The HO kit has been discontinued for some time. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 -----Original Message----- From: Vincent Troia To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 11:17 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges >I am in the process of adding a bascule bridge to my layout and was >interested in learning more about the prototype. Did the PRR have a >Scherzer rolling lift? This bridge is available in N scale, albeit out of >production. If so, what are the lengths of the leaf (movable span)? >Also, did the PRR have any double-leaf spans even though they were seldom >used for railroads? > >Vincent > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] Swing Bridge Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:52:43 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 52c0d6ccb1e421255c432c8846dcb485 We have heard that an HO scale swing bridge may be produced within the next year. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 09:39:41 -1000 From: "Eric J. Minton" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trainstuff LLD X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4877f1cc9b74be67d9caac2d3378ed37 Aloha, Thanks for the info about trainstuff. If you are willing to accept some deviation from prototype wire is not that hard. Sommerfeldt makes components that assemble easily. The wire is too large but is durable Eric At 08:55 AM 10/10/1999 -0500, Larry Reynolds wrote: >Hi Frank: > >Go to www.trainstuffllc.com. And yes, they are showing MP54's in MP-54 >double door head end mail car, MP-54 passenger-baggage, MP-54 all passenger >coach, as well as MP-54 dummy coach. Although all of these are not >available as of now, they sure look like a nice offering. Makes me wish I >were modeling under the wire instead of steam and dismals. (I'll never try >catenary because it's too much work) > >Regards, Larry Reynolds > >Frank Bagrash wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Does anybody on the list know how to reach Trainstuff? I heard that they > > were producing HO scale models of M-54 and MP-54 coaches, etc. Is there > > any truth to this? > > > > Frank > > > > -- > > Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 > > Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) > > P.O. Box 6846 > > California State University > > Fullerton, California 92834-6846 > > E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu > > Boogie gently, babies > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:54:23 EDT Subject: [PRR] Trainstuff LLD X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 553f2b3330f3b6a8be6e1fb350db93b4 Larry - Running under wire is not as tough as you think once you have a system. I make mine out of square brass tubing and music wire and it has worked well for me for years. My biggest problem is stringing the 115volt wire around the layout. Now you may ask "why 115 volt wire???" Simple answer. I have seven large cats who go absolutely nuts when a pantograph goes zipping by! John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:52:56 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Trainstuff LLD X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c5eaaf5c12d2eb0203abf1c991da036e John: Thanks for your encouragement on running wire. I thought that maybe the best way for me would be to incorporate pole cars. These are basically flat cars that are positioned in front and at the rear of a juice jack. Each one has a catenary pole with a trolley wire strung to the other. Now you can run your G's and P5a's down the Middle Division with no problems. (Except you may need to also run a "power generating car" somewhere in the consist.) My other thought is to just position the bridges and poles, and then hope that the local spiders are SPF's. Ain't it fun?..... Larry DWa9975062@aol.com wrote: > Larry - Running under wire is not as tough as you think once you have a > system. I make mine out of square brass tubing and music wire and it has > worked well for me for years. My biggest problem is stringing the 115volt > wire around the layout. Now you may ask "why 115 volt wire???" Simple answer. > I have seven large cats who go absolutely nuts when a pantograph goes zipping > by! John > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:16:17 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Cutting zinc boilers with a Dremel tool X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9a93be802c7a8f8a2ad222caa398c526 Hello list, I'm in the process of cutting away some of the running boards from my Bowser I1sa and a Mantua Pacific, and I've hit upon a wrinkle that's new to me. For the few of you that didn't already know this, I'll pass it on. While using a cutoff disc in a Dremel motor tool, pour some light 3 in 1 oil for household use on the surface you're about to cut. It doesn't cut down on the dust much,but the Dremel cuts much easier and faster. I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner, as I've been using oil when drilling holes for years. As far as drilling goes, I center punch using a light hammer and a drywall screw; it's crude, but it works quite well. As the drywall screws are cheap, I simply trash them when they become dull (usually, I misplace them first). I built my Bowser A5s before I knew enough to centerpunch holes for the superdetail kit, and it was quite frustrating (my verbiage was quite unprintable). As far as the I1sa goes, I'm grateful that Bowser's new boiler casting doesn't have any cast on piping; it was pretty easy for me to cut away the running board sections that I didn't need for my twin air pump conversion. My prototype, the 4483, also has a mechanical lubricator and her running board also goes over her left hand air pump; I haven't added the new running boards yet, but when I do, they'll be from styrene, and I'm going to blend them into the kit running boards. There are a lot of holes to drill for the superdetail kit, but they go pretty quickly if done right. I've been doing about half a dozen holes a night; this avoids tedium and frustration. For those of you with less time, the Bowser deluxe kit, which has predrilled holes for the included superdetail kit and assembled valve gear, may be the way to go. Doug PRRT&HS 4932 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ljgurke@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 19:37:27 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 42d78781c2d1bad7e133d05920ba8ca0 What about the bascule bridge over the Manasquan on the NY&LB? This is a rolling lift type bridge (perhaps reflecting CNJ lineage?) according to recent photos I took on a fishing trip out on the Paramount from Brielle (the BEST vantage point to get a good look at this bridge, and you get a day of fishing in to boot). Still in operation, albiet with only one of the ogiginal two tracks in operation. I am planning a similar model, but with a single track, across the bay on my HO layout. Mike Hagan Andover, MA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:02:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 97bc24f6add61b95c2df151c122a52ac If we include NY&LB, they have some swing bridges too: Raritan River and Oceanport (the latter probably seldom opened). But one possibility is Morgan Draw, between South Amboy and Matawan; it is probably rolling lift but let me try to get a look at it from the Garden State Parkway tomorrow morning. If it looks like a bascule, will get back to you. But is NY&LB really PRR? Or is this off-topic? John Bobsin On 10 Oct 99, at 19:37, Ljgurke@aol.com wrote: > What about the bascule bridge over the Manasquan on the NY&LB? This is a > rolling lift type bridge (perhaps reflecting CNJ lineage?) according to > recent photos I took on a fishing trip out on the Paramount from Brielle (the > BEST vantage point to get a good look at this bridge, and you get a day of > fishing in to boot). Still in operation, albiet with only one of the > ogiginal two tracks in operation. I am planning a similar model, but with a > single track, across the bay on my HO layout. > > Mike Hagan > Andover, MA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:19:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7b54de2bdc1903a89af19e7ba7a02bba Have yet to see mention in this thread of a Trains magazine cover story on the movable bridges of northern New Jersey c. ten years ago; I think they got all of them, except the RR bridge across the South River. Can't give an issue date, as I'm on the Chicago leg of my forever commute, and the library is back in Philly. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:23:45 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] A.T.& S.F. 2-10-4's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 80e165b162269f159f8d383def882c3a Hi all... A while back someone mentioned about the A.T.& S.F. 2-10-4's that Pennsy leased during 1956 and wanted to know if any were saved. I for sure that A.T.&S.F. engines No.s 5012,5015 and 5020 were used along with some others. One i know of that was saved was A.T.&S.F. No. 5011. I don't know if it was used in Pennsy service but at least one that i know of was saved. What i would like to know since we were and are on a 2-10-4 thread here is if anyone knows if any of the engines that were the prototype for the J-1,the C&O T-1 class engines were saved. If so this would give us Pennsy nuts the closest thing to a J-1. I to the best of my knowledge don't think any were. I know C&O saved some 2-8-4, 4-6-4,2-6-6-2 and 2-6-6-6 engines along with a turbine. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:26:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Drawbridge Rule in Passenger Ads/PTTs X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 50e158b8ce7db17c4adff70087eaddab In a message dated 10/9/99 5:28:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRRMAN writes: << In a message dated 99-10-07 23:06:23 EDT, you write: << I read this PTT notation as meaning that if the STREET drawbridges between downtown and CUS have been open, then train departure time will be delayed. I never thought about that aspect. Excellent point. I guess I'll have to ransack the collection until I find the actual rule. This would qualify as "permitted delay", kind of like the "minutes to hold for connections...." But I sure can't envision the PRR actually changing the schedule, which was the impression I got from Beebe. >> Apparently this claim was necessary to allay the fears of the traveling public. Competitors like the NYC/LSMS or the B&O were on the "right" side of the Chicago River, and the location of CUS was a problem, being separated from the downtown business district by a bunch of street drawbridges. There was no sense in a Pennsy train leaving OT if its passengers were still stuck in cabs on the other side of the river. I'm pretty sure I've seen this claim in PRR advertising that we've gone through while arranging the Jack Fravert collection. I've also seen it in multiple PTT's by now. Unfortunately, another trip through Jack's extensive PRR PTT stack will be delayed by press of business, and specifically by auctioning activities on his hardware and employee manuals right now. I'll dig back into the PRR PTT's and passenger advertising as soon as possible -- would like to determine what range of dates this claim was made for Chicago operations between 1900 and the 1950's. Rick Tipton Lines West fanatic ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:26:36 EDT Subject: [PRR] Norwood Station/Cincinnati Trip Report X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f0b5f10853868c408c5bef0941587eae Was in Cincinnati this week on business. I drove around Norwood (with an old city map), and found the station in question, occupied by an FOE post (Fraternal Order of Eagles). My impression is that the building has been modified slightly, having sprouted a more-modern west wing and some ventilators for what I'm sure is a kitchen/restaurant operation. Took some pix, but due to press of time, didn't try to get inside. The building, a gray, stone-veneered structure, looks like nothing the Pennsylvania Railroad built elsewhere. Only the metal supports for the platform roof look familiar; they're not necessarily a PRR design but are contemporaries of those used (but now removed) down at CUT. Amazingly, it appears the track along the station platform is still in regular use. The street underpass just west of the station still bears "The Pennsylvania Railroad" in metal letters on both sides, an unusual treatment for PRR Lines West. While I was in Norwood, I also explored 1. the PRR passenger connection with the B&O main at East Norwood (accessible via some old concrete steps behind the tennis courts in a Norwood city park at the south end of Beech Street) 2. the three legs of the wye; each has a concrete underpass with "Pennsylvania" cast into it. Note: one side of this wye is the ex-PRR Richmond Branch. The other two legs of the wye are to give PRR passenger trains access from either Richmond (west) or Xenia (east) past the PRR Norwood station, and then to the B&O to go downtown to Cincinnati Union Station. I'm still shaky on whether the same trackage was once used by N&W's passenger trains into Cincinnati from Portsmouth. The concrete bridges in question, built circa 1933, are of course a noticeably newer style than most rail structures in Cincinnati. 3. the wye's three switches. OAKLEY was the hardest to find, but is easily accessible from the back of a discount store/shopping center off Ridge Road. 4. McCullough Yard, on the former narrow gauge Cincinnati, Lebanon, and Northern. It's now the home of local Indiana & Ohio RR operations, containing GP30's and other goodies. Property is posted, but it's still easy to see into the yard from the north end of Beech Street. 5. B&O's wooden East Norwood Tower is standing, but condemned and in rough shape. The CL&N diamond across the B&O main is long gone (no surprise there). But it's been a long time since I was in this neighborhood -- the whole GM assembly plant has also been removed. This is the place that used to build all those Camaros and Firebirds. Sic transit gloria mundi (or at least sic transit gloria GM). Apropos of nothing, I was blown away by current rail traffic when I relocated to the north end of Queensgate Yard. Spring Grove Avenue sees trains out of both the CSX and NS complexes in the Mill Creek Valley. Cincinnati railfans are probably bored with the whole thing, but I caught three pairs of Wisconsin Central SD45's, and saw 3 BNSF "pumpkins" (one shiny enough to be just-delivered) among many other locos in about 2 hours. Don't know how many trains I saw yet, but I shot 100 slides in an afternoon -- heavy hitting for me. Looking forward to finding out more about the PRR in Norwood, Rick Tipton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:26:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy engines X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 376f50083708a1b2267a05c8a7f7ded5 In a message dated 9/22/99 12:57:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com writes: << There is also the "Rueben Wells" (i think that is what it is called and spelled). This unique engine was built for the Madison, Indiana PRR line the steep grade (approx. 6% grade) out of the Ohio River valley. This engine is currently in the Indianapolis Children's Museum and is in excellent condition. I think that it was built in the 1890's but I am not sure. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana >> Ted, According to Ghost Railroads of Indiana, it's "Reuben Wells", named after the Jeffersonville, Madison & Indianapolis' master mechanic. And the engine was built (across the river from where I now live) in the Jeffersonville IN shops, replacing two rack engines in July 1868. It was replaced in 1898, but held in reserve until 1903. The Madison Hill Grade is usually described as being 5.89%, although engineering diagrams once reprinted in the Keystone show a short segment of 6.06%. However, if you do the math from top to bottom, it comes out very close to 5.89%. BTW, the grade looks like a scary place to railroad, even without its famous snake problem. Rick Tipton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:54:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a34d1addb54c08ade7e9f41343eed472 Just behind the Philadelphia International Airport are two bridges that roll up to let small sailing and other water craft through. One was PRR the other was Reading. Both tracks went to Stoney Creek and the Sun Oil Marcus Hook Oil Refinery. Most of the Rdg track is gone and they use most of the PRR side. One bridge is out of service in the up position, the other being used to get to Marcus Hook,back out on the Amtrak Main at Hook to continue to Wilmington Del. This is the Chester Sec./Chester Ind. track of former Conrail now Shared Assets. Are these the kind of bridges you are talking about? Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Huber25@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:05:15 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] A.T.& S.F. 2-10-4's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1c470f8fffe2d966d373984f9dc4f61e Hi, Hank and Everyone. You're right about the C&O saving so many K-4 2-8-4's. There were 18 of them set aside for preservation. I think 16 of them made it. Unfortunately for C&O and PRR fans, as well as all great steam lovers, none of the T-1 class 2-10-4's was selected to be preserved. It's a shame that railroads would choose to save groups of engines rather than a representative of each type. I guess the C&O figured they were the best examples of C&O power. The K-4's were their version of GP-9's so I can understand their possible reasoning. At least they saved some nice engines. The latter C&O power was very handsome and the K-4's, T-1's and H-8 2-6-6-6's were probably the best looking of all their steam. The real shame to me is that the Pennsy didn't save a J or J-1. To me they were the best looking Pennsy engines ever and deserved a place in the Historical Collection, Pennsy design or not! The Santa Fe 2-10-4's that were preserved are: # 5000 Madame Queen, Amarillo, TX (the original 2-10-4 and a different class of engine) # 5011, St. Louis, MO # 5017, Green Bay, WI # 5030, Santa Fe, NM According to Iron Horses of the Santa Fe, the bible of Santa Fe steam engines, none of these engines ever ran on the Pennsy. They list the following info on the engines that did get a lease to the PRR: ENGINE # DATE LEASED DATE RETURNED # 5012 4-27-56 12-2-56 # 5013 5-4-56 11-25-56 # 5014 4-27-56 11-25-56 # 5016 4-27-56 12-2-56 # 5018 4-27-56 11-28-56 # 5020 4-27-56 11-28-56 # 5022 5-4-56 12-2-56 # 5026 4-27-56 11-28-56 # 5028 4-27-56 11-25-56 # 5032 5-4-56 11-25-56 # 5034 5-4-56 12-2-56 # 5035 5-4-56 11-28-56 The book is very complimentary of the Pennsy engines. Hope this helps and is of interest. Roger W. Huber ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] ATSF 2-10-4's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 494f7b5347523f3681da680e1034cd64 Hank, List, I was the one awhile back who brought up the question of if there was any ATSF 2-10-4's that survived. More so if any of the Leased 2-10-4's. I kind of anwsered part of my question this past week. I was at the St. Louis Transportation Museum and they do have one on display there. It is number 5011. It was not one of the leased locos however. It is however a Monster with its 80? inch drivers. The cab is open for viewng and it is very roomy. Seats for a 4 man crew. You can even pull the rope for the Bell. I don't follow ATSF so I do not know if there are more of these that survived....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:00:58 -0500 (CDT) From: harperd@tamug.tamu.edu (Don Harper) Subject: Re: [PRR] Cutting zinc boilers with a Dremel tool X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 64bfb17b4fccf93a5fbda35fd8181f7e Doug Kisala wrote >As far as the I1sa goes, I'm grateful that Bowser's new boiler casting >doesn't have any cast on piping; it was pretty easy for me to cut away >the running board sections that I didn't need for my twin air pump >conversion. My prototype, the 4483, also has a mechanical lubricator >and her running board also goes over her left hand air pump; I haven't >added the new running boards yet, but when I do, they'll be from >styrene, and I'm going to blend them into the kit running boards. I'm doing the same thing, but with a different engine number - one that I have an overhead photo of. 4483 has a Nathan DV-7 mechanical lubricator. So far I've found a Precision Scale (cat # 585-3382) DV-4. Anyone know if someone makes a DV-7? Or if no one does will it make any difference in HO scale??? Doug, be aware that the cylinder-to-smokebox steam pipes supplied by Bowser do not appear to be the correct length. My new runningboard hits the steam pipe 'way too high - across the rivets where the pipe attaches to the smokebox. The runningboard should hit about where the pipe diameter changes. I'm going to try steam pipes for the M-1 (Bowser 70131) which appear to be longer. If that fails, I guess I'll make my own. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:22:39 -0400 From: Eric Lauterbach Subject: [PRR] ATSF 2-10-4 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e91bcfc8c32e18a521a22cf060c19939 There is on other ATSF 2-10-4 prserved. #5021 is preserved in Sacramento, Ca. Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:21:54 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cutting zinc boilers with a Dremel tool X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c9e6e56e1ff37c23ec3ff359c1c56783 Hello Don and the list, Thanks for your advice; it will come in handy as my I1sa advances. As far as the mechanical lubricators available in HO scale, I've used Cary's 13-259; it looks good to me, though I don't know if it's 100% appropriate for the PRR. I've installed it on a Bowser K4s (7133 as she appeared in 1946), and 3 Bachmann K4s shells so far (the 1361 and 3750 currently produced and an older engine repowered with a Bowser chassis and Alco Products can motor), and I plan to install it on my I1sa when the time comes. Doug Don Harper wrote: > Doug Kisala wrote > > >As far as the I1sa goes, I'm grateful that Bowser's new boiler casting > >doesn't have any cast on piping; it was pretty easy for me to cut away > >the running board sections that I didn't need for my twin air pump > >conversion. My prototype, the 4483, also has a mechanical lubricator > >and her running board also goes over her left hand air pump; I haven't > >added the new running boards yet, but when I do, they'll be from > >styrene, and I'm going to blend them into the kit running boards. > > I'm doing the same thing, but with a different engine number - one that I have an overhead photo of. > > 4483 has a Nathan DV-7 mechanical lubricator. So far I've found a Precision Scale (cat # 585-3382) DV-4. Anyone know if someone makes a DV-7? Or if no one does will it make any difference in HO scale??? > > Doug, be aware that the cylinder-to-smokebox steam pipes supplied by Bowser do not appear to be the correct length. My new runningboard hits the steam pipe 'way too high - across the rivets where the pipe attaches to the smokebox. The runningboard should hit about where the pipe diameter changes. I'm going to try steam pipes for the M-1 (Bowser 70131) which appear to be longer. If that fails, I guess I'll make my own. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:26:22 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cutting zinc boilers with a Dremel tool X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: acb118d51f7890f6a530ed0d39b1d430 Hank and the list, I'd be very interested in your K5 model; I'd like to do one of these eventually! Please, if you have time, details on the conversion! I'm guessing that you hacked off the oversize sand dome and changed the firebox sides (the I1sa's firebox is shallower below the running boards) along with the feedwater heater plumbing. What did you use for cylinders? Finally, did you model the late K5 engines with outside steam pipes and modern front end, or the earlier engines with the cast cylinders later used on M1a engines? Thanks in advance! Doug bubbles@visi.net wrote: > Hi... > > Thanks for the info...I wish i had known or though about it when i > modified the new I-1 boiler for a K-5 model i made. I used the > moto tool to cut close then hand filed the rest off. I had to be > careful near the rivet heads on the smoke box and the boiler > bands also. > > Thanks again > Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:29:52 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bcd9d9797b78c958d2b7790bfe070c96 Hello John and the list, After 1930, the New York and Long Branch was half PRR. In 1930, the PRR purchased a half interest in the line from CNJ; prior to that, PRR merely had trackage rights. This comes from Don Wood's book The Unique New York and Long Branch. Doug bobsin@nac.net wrote: > If we include NY&LB, they have some swing bridges too: Raritan > River and Oceanport (the latter probably seldom opened). But one > possibility is Morgan Draw, between South Amboy and Matawan; it > is probably rolling lift but let me try to get a look at it from the > Garden State Parkway tomorrow morning. If it looks like a > bascule, will get back to you. > > But is NY&LB really PRR? Or is this off-topic? > > John Bobsin > > On 10 Oct 99, at 19:37, Ljgurke@aol.com wrote: > > > What about the bascule bridge over the Manasquan on the NY&LB? This is a > > rolling lift type bridge (perhaps reflecting CNJ lineage?) according to > > recent photos I took on a fishing trip out on the Paramount from Brielle (the > > BEST vantage point to get a good look at this bridge, and you get a day of > > fishing in to boot). Still in operation, albiet with only one of the > > ogiginal two tracks in operation. I am planning a similar model, but with a > > single track, across the bay on my HO layout. > > > > Mike Hagan > > Andover, MA > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:36:51 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] F3sc Moguls X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 986b4d9e0ba9f84fc7991dbd907eef26 Hello list, According to Edson's PRR All-time Steam Roster, on page 239, three of GR&I's F3c Moguls were converted to F3sc engines. They were GRI 30 (later PRR 9556), GRI 80 (later GRI 34, then PRR 9560), and GRI 81 (later GRI 35, then PRR 9561). Has anybody seen pictures of these rarities. I have nearly all of the PRR steam books out there, and have yet to see any. You may ask why, as an NYLB modeller, I'm interested? Rarity and simple curiosity! Also, it might make a neat kitbashing project using an IHC Mogul chassis and a Mantua Atlantic boiler. The wheelbase of the IHC mogul and the PRR F3c are close; I measured from plans in the MR Cyclopedia. Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:37:37 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] ATSF 2-10-4's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b85993011c99d9e88da18e3947c21781 "doug.kisala" wrote: > Hello Gary and the list, > > The 5011 class Texans had 74" drivers. PRR had some initial counterbalance > problems with the J1 class; I wonder if the Santa Fe engines ever had > similar difficulties. > > Doug > > Gary Mittner wrote: > > > Hank, List, > > > > I was the one awhile back who brought up the question of if there > > was any ATSF 2-10-4's that survived. More so if any of the Leased > > 2-10-4's. I kind of anwsered part of my question this past week. I was > > at the St. Louis Transportation Museum and they do have one on display > > there. It is number 5011. It was not one of the leased locos however. It > > is however a Monster with its 80? inch drivers. The cab is open for > > viewng and it is very roomy. Seats for a 4 man crew. You can even pull > > the rope for the Bell. I don't follow ATSF so I do not know if there are > > more of these that survived....Gary > > > > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:33:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1fec641ae950a39199629e4bdca143c5 OK I guess NY&LB qualifies as PRR, anyway they ran lots of big red trains over it. But have we ever found a Bascule bridge? Not sure exactly what makes a bridge Bascule, but certainly the movable section lifts from a pivot, not by rolling backwards like a Scherzer rolling lift bridge. Damn. Forgot to look at Morgan draw today. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Miracle Castings FM Erie-Built B units Date: Mon, 11 Oct 99 21:26:41 -0400 From: Jerry X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 87908664841375e65df273e25d8909ea Miracle Castings long awaited FM ERIE-built B units are for real! We've received our complete order and all backorders have been filled...and there are still some in stock available via our eStore. Thank you! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service" http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ljgurke@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:57:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: decf917649333ac7d344a6dd0764373c Considering that this was the last bastion of the K-4s in 1956-57, I'd say the NY&LB most definitely qualifies as Pennsy. Mike Hagan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:25:00 -0400 From: Dave McNeil Subject: [PRR] DD1 Container Lettering Plans X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ea259c19b151d68138f8839440daf902 Hi Gang, Several days ago I requested information about lettering diagrams and decals for the DD1 containers as used on the Railworks F-31 flatcars. There wasn't much of a response. Well I finally got back to the stack on magazines in the bookcase and have found the diagrams. The April & May '99 issues of MODEL RAILROADING have articles by Larry Smith containing the lettering diagrams for the SD1 containers which are dimensionally the same as the DD1 containers. Additionally there are Tracings for the DD through DD4 , SDR & SDR refrigerated containers. Some of the container number series are also provides in these excellent articles. Photos are provided of the DD1A and SD1 boxes. I haven't checked out he decals sheets yet, but this shouldn't be as difficult as I had thought. Regards, Dave McNeil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:40:52 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] New York & Long Branch X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4a3688a2a64b1ace7676887e1d04214f doug.kisala wrote: > > After 1930, the New York and Long Branch was half PRR. In 1930, the PRR purchased > a half interest in the line from CNJ; prior to that, PRR merely had trackage > rights. This comes from Don Wood's book The Unique New York and Long Branch. Greetings to Doug and the list: According to the PRR's 1945 corporate history, NY&LB was completed between 1875 and 1882, and the joint ownership extends back to a contract signed Jan. 2, 1888 (Vol. 4, pages 253-254, 256), when the pattern was established whereby Jersey Central handled operations and maintenance of NY&LB and PRR handled accounting and treasury work. PRR trains had actually begun using NY&LB in October 1882. The 1930 date was the point at which the agreement was *modified and extended* (for 999 years, of course). The change was that PRR and CNJ split equally the cost of taxes, interest on bonds, and administrative costs, while operating costs were shared 57 percent by PRR and 43 percent by CNJ. Hope this helps. Dan Cupper dan@cwix.com Psalm 119:9,11 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:13:34 -0700 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] DD1 Container Lettering Plans X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 74f42cd1d15ffeccc253692ad7362bbd Hi Dave, All, There are a couple more pics of PRR containers in Gregg's "Train Shed Cyclopedia" #71 as follows: pg. 323 Eight 10,000 lb. containers on F31. Container #'s: 512-519, no class stated. Identical shot with container doors open. pg. 324 G22b loaded with HB-1 weather-proof bulk freight containers, #R8303 and others. 3 detail pics: BH-1 #R9900, top HB-2 #R8398 air-tight bulk container, side; HB-2, bottom. FM with five 10,000 lb. containers, #s M3013, M3?16, M1211, M3?72. Several examples of other road's containers, including some milk containers and milk tofcs, are included in the article. No drawings or diagrams, though. Just pics. Later, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Auction. X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c893ddc0423940086d07c73c606362cc List, Several weeks ago Jerry posted on his list an announcment of an upcoming Railroadiana Auction to be held in Duncansville, Pa on Oct 16. Unfortunatly I will be unable to make it myself. Is there anyone on this list planning to go? If so email me off list. Thanks,..... Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:06:26 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Al Staufer Print/Drawing X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e4b4f92c0da601f1eee743e9af4fa014 I am looking for information about an ink-wash drawing of a PRR M-1a that I found a few years ago. (I can't tell if it an original or a print because the frame is too fragile to disassemble.) It is about 14"x34", left front 3/4 view, labeled "DUEL [SIC] PURPOSE ENGINE No. 6704 CLASS M1a, built for the Pennsylvania Railroad by Baldwin Locomotive Works 1930" The name "Alvin F. Staufer" appears along the rail under the tender. Any idea what I have here? I tried to write to Mr. Staufer but never heard anything in reply--but might have had the wrong address. thanks, Jim McDaniel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:22:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Al Staufer Print/Drawing X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: befc9cbc6bbf3e67699534c1178c11c9 In a message dated 10/12/99 11:13:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jlmcdaniel@esva.net writes: << The name "Alvin F. Staufer" appears along the rail under the tender. Any idea what I have here? I tried to write to Mr. Staufer but never heard anything in reply--but might have had the wrong address. thanks, Jim McDaniel >> I have the same print, here in my office - While it was (and still is) an "unlimited" print, you do have a "first edition" from the 1960's - Al corrected the spelling on later runs Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:55:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DD1 Container Lettering Plans X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 113c585bc55d76e0cd7e19c6a2daa6de In a message dated 10/11/99 10:33:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, demcneil@gte.net writes: << DD1 containers as used on the Railworks F-31 flatcars. >> MANY of these containers still survive, as relay boxes handcar sheds etc., buy extras, if you can ! Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:29:16 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cutting zinc boilers with a Dremel tool X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b5abf84f5a983f70943185884637f9de Hank and the list, Thanks for the information; it will come in handy. After I finish the I1sa, E6s, and my grandfather's CNJ G3s, this may make it onto my projects list, unless I start modelling an E7s (namely, the 8063) first. Doug bubbles@visi.net wrote: > Hi.... > > Basically the K-5 job was a Bowser K-4 mech, The I-1s boiler > (with the details and the running boards changed) and the cylinders, > saddle and guides from the bowser M-1a. The inside of the boiler > had to be ground out a bit to accept a Alco helix humper that was > added in place of the regular Bowser open frame motor. The > Sandbox was slightly modified. > > I have a parts list and drawings (and some photos here for it) > This was the pilot model that i had built for Joe Zappa > of Liberty models which to date has never been put in > production. I'm in the process of trying to contact him. > He has a N-8 model of mine and some other stuff i want to > get back from him. > > I modeled 5698 as it was from the late 1930's to the mid 1940's. > The boiler at the smokebox of 5699 is too long to use > the New I-1s boiler. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:32:32 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] New York & Long Branch X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1f94fe2f8f4986d419c23c948497858f Dan, Thanks! I had no idea that joint ownership of the NYLB went back into the 19th century. Doug Dan Cupper wrote: > doug.kisala wrote: > > > > After 1930, the New York and Long Branch was half PRR. In 1930, the PRR purchased > > a half interest in the line from CNJ; prior to that, PRR merely had trackage > > rights. This comes from Don Wood's book The Unique New York and Long Branch. > > Greetings to Doug and the list: > > According to the PRR's 1945 corporate history, NY&LB was completed > between 1875 and 1882, and the joint ownership extends back to a > contract signed Jan. 2, 1888 (Vol. 4, pages 253-254, 256), when the > pattern was established whereby Jersey Central handled operations and > maintenance of NY&LB and PRR handled accounting and treasury work. PRR > trains had actually begun using NY&LB in October 1882. > > The 1930 date was the point at which the agreement was *modified and > extended* (for 999 years, of course). The change was that PRR and CNJ > split equally the cost of taxes, interest on bonds, and administrative > costs, while operating costs were shared 57 percent by PRR and 43 > percent by CNJ. > > Hope this helps. > > Dan Cupper > dan@cwix.com > Psalm 119:9,11 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:35:57 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f294dff68c3dc10629de194cf159f7e5 Amen!!!!! My favorite pacifics found happy homes doing jobs that took mu'd EP20s and AFP20s to equal (at admittedly much higher maintenance costs)! Unfortunately, I was born some 13 years after the end of NYLB steam, and so missed a great show. Thankfully, I have my grandfather's memories, pictures, and a growing model collection. And next year, with any luck, K4s 1361 should rise from the ashes of retirement again. Doug Ljgurke@aol.com wrote: > Considering that this was the last bastion of the K-4s in 1956-57, I'd say > the NY&LB most definitely qualifies as Pennsy. > > Mike Hagan > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:42:31 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Picking a good brass dealer X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8b234e80ce34c6050f4a7a95cffe326a Hello list, Can any of you recommend good brass dealers based on personal experience? I've placed a reservation with a hobby shop, but I'm not sure I made the right choice. Also, I'm considering acquiring a used H6sb from Lambert from another dealer; I'd prefer the more recent Sunset models, but there seem to be none on the market at present. The Railworks engines are, at least for now, out of my price range. Do any of you have experience with the Lambert, or other importers' H6sb engines? My original aim was to kitbash this engine; I went so far as to acquire 56" drivers from International Hobbies (imported from the UK), but I can't find any chassis with a close enough wheelbase. I thought about European engines (ie Brawa, Fleischmann, Roco, Bachmann Branchline), but so far I've hit a stone wall. Any suggestions would be welcomed! Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Re: Picking a Good Brass X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0ac520863698fb5764972275d283e1a4 Doug, In my opinion go for the Lambert H6sb. That model loco was known for acuracy and performance. I have painted several in the past and they are winners. I have a Sunset H6sb myself and it is ok too but sounds a little "tinny" when running. The solder joints are a little weak on the sunset version also. The Lambert H falls into the same catagry as the PFM L1, strongly built and reliable. I may have one pictured on my website. Can't remember. As to Brass dealers I don't use any specific one. I buy from who ever has what I am looking for. Be it Brass Dealer, Train Shows, Hobby Shop or the internet.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:47:55 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: [PRR] The Curve in Allentown X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: caef70bcf5e081ecd798db164dea65b7 Hi Gang: I just finished, (with further detailing to be added in the near future), the Horseshoe Curve area of my layout. This can be partially viewed at http://home1.gte.net/reynoldl/prr8.jpg and also at http://home1.gte.net/reynoldl/prr9.jpg if you're interested. Regards: Larry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Susan/Jim Leighty" Subject: Re: [PRR] The Curve in Allentown Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:12:53 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 189cc45bec5bc30629ad1fd7d643b609 Nice job Larry! Jim > Hi Gang: > > I just finished, (with further detailing to be added in the near > future), the Horseshoe Curve area of my layout. This can be partially > viewed at > http://home1.gte.net/reynoldl/prr8.jpg and also at > http://home1.gte.net/reynoldl/prr9.jpg > if you're interested. > > Regards: > > Larry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vastano,Sam" Subject: Re: [PRR] The Curve in Allentown Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:22:04 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b299342aa2effbe3c8872d0fedc146ec Wow!!!!, That is fantastic!!! Great job Sam -----Original Message----- From: Larry Reynolds To: PRR-Talk LIST ; HO Railroading HORailroading Talk Date: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 8:56 PM Subject: [PRR] The Curve in Allentown >Hi Gang: > >I just finished, (with further detailing to be added in the near >future), the Horseshoe Curve area of my layout. This can be partially >viewed at >http://home1.gte.net/reynoldl/prr8.jpg and also at >http://home1.gte.net/reynoldl/prr9.jpg >if you're interested. > >Regards: > >Larry > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] The Curve in Allentown Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:15:40 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e9b8ae13cadc1fd4518a501e4b687c93 Larry: Ditto!! Ted -----Original Message----- From: Vastano,Sam [mailto:svastano@ccia.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 6:22 AM To: PRR-TALK; Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] The Curve in Allentown Wow!!!!, That is fantastic!!! Great job Sam -----Original Message----- From: Larry Reynolds To: PRR-Talk LIST ; HO Railroading HORailroading Talk Date: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 8:56 PM Subject: [PRR] The Curve in Allentown >Hi Gang: > >I just finished, (with further detailing to be added in the near >future), the Horseshoe Curve area of my layout. This can be partially >viewed at >http://home1.gte.net/reynoldl/prr8.jpg and also at >http://home1.gte.net/reynoldl/prr9.jpg >if you're interested. > >Regards: > >Larry > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:45:03 EDT Subject: [PRR] N&W Y3 colors on PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 398770c7be0ab01bec3ffb45f23ae189 In discussing this loco on the Pennsy on the steam loco list, I just realized that I don't know whether it was ever repainted in DGLE during Pennsy use. Anyone have an answer? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] F Units Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:25:52 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 79848914edd71bf7496ebde2958e80d9 Attn: F unit experts, I am modeling chicken wire F-3s with high fans in about 1957. I am looking for a rear view of the A unit with antennas preferably but not necessarily F-3s. Also, need confirmed surviving unit numbers of F-3s with the above features in 1957. There is a distant shot of one with an I-1 helper in the beginning of Don Ball's book. I am sure that I can find you something that will make it worth your effort as you will see in my next posting. Thank You Bill Lane ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] builders photos and plans Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:38:03 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cbbcb5fc96b04ce15ef05edbabbb700b I am always looking to buy or trade PRR builders photos and General Arrangement drawings. I have about 500 4 x 5 copy negative of rolling stock (mostly freight cars) and a complete darkroom to process them. I cannot sell the photos, but I can trade for other photos. I would have to borrow your originals for a short time to copy shoot. You will then have access to an equal number of my photos that you don't have. I can prove that the above is true. I have photos of the X-23a coke car in the current Keystone. There is nothing like having builders photos when you need information for a modeling project. I am also looking for General Arrangement drawings. I am accumulating quite a collection of them. Is there any interest out there ? Thank You Bill Lane ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] F Units Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:05:11 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c8e7cfc96191541d7edfad2be0e9941f In 1957 every PRR diesel ever purchased was still on the roster. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Lane To: 'prr-talk@dsop.com' Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 1:43 PM Subject: [PRR] F Units >Attn: F unit experts, > >I am modeling chicken wire F-3s with high fans in about 1957. I am looking >for a rear view of the A unit with antennas preferably but not necessarily >F-3s. Also, need confirmed surviving unit numbers of F-3s with the above >features in 1957. There is a distant shot of one with an I-1 helper in the >beginning of Don Ball's book. I am sure that I can find you something that >will make it worth your effort as you will see in my next posting. > >Thank You >Bill Lane > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:29:04 -0400 From: Dave McNeil Subject: [PRR] RE: dd1 containers etc X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 919b1420e19d19a241febdd0741f625c Hi All, I dug a little further into the closet and came up with more and better information on the DD1 et.al. along with lettering diagrams for the F-31 and FM Cars used in this service. Keystone Vol. 18-1 (Spring '84) was almost entirely given over to this subject in a Richard Burg Article. The G22/ HB containers as reproduced by Westerfieldare also included as well as the 19 ft TD1 truck bodies.. Included is a complete roster of all the containers and the class and number of cars fitted out to carry the various containers. Regards, Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:25:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N&W Y3 colors on PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4782c56dcb1e6adebcd3d5ec84cab358 In a message dated 10/13/99 12:51:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bobspf@aol.com writes: << I don't know whether it was ever repainted in DGLE during Pennsy use. Anyone have an answer? Bob Zoeller >> Not on the color - but they were among very few freight only locos to wear a Keystone # plate Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:47:14 -0500 From: Richard Wallis Subject: [PRR] The third station at Frankfort X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 514ff87a6670d12149269b24437da8af Hello list: I'm back from a couple of trips to central Indiana last week in search of Vandalia Line pics, and I had to confront, once again, the riddle of Frankfort's station situation. So, I want to throw this out for possible help in nailing down details. First, some background. Frankfort, Indiana, current population around 15,000, has seen at least four different passenger stations in service (serially, of course) on the PRR and predecessors. The first was the one built by the original line from Terre Haute (actually Rockville) north to Logansport--the Logansport, Crawfordsville & Southwestern. While I have not yet found a picture of this depot, it was probably a simple wood-frame structure similar to the one still in existence (albeit moved off-line) in Camden. This first station was replaced sometime in the 1880s or early 1890s with another wood-frame design in the typical Vandalia "gingerbread" style, with the trademark gambrelled, hip roofline. (Similar stations appeared all over the Vandalia Line in the 1880s, including Crawfordsville, Culver, and the beautifully preserved example in Rockville.) These were often similar to the Lines West standard design B and C models, but uniquely Van in their ornamentation and details, and perfect for their small-town Indiana locations. In 1918, however, with the opening of the Indianapolis & Frankfort line, the PRR built a brand-new station unlike any that had preceeded it. Situated approximately a half-mile south of the old depot, below Walnut Street, this new station was a square, modern Beau Arts-style station of much larger size. Built of red brick and bedford stone, it fronted on a driveway at the western end of Wabash, sitting slightly below grade, and had a sloping subway-tunnel passageway which accessed a canopied center platform. The broad platform sat between the two station tracks, one for the new I&F, and the second for the original Terre Haute line which curved southwestward just south of the station complex. The entire set-up was strikingly out of character with the small Indiana city it served, and was a quantum jump from the previous depot. Further, it remained in service only until the early 1940s, being completely demolished and replaced by a remodeled freight station on Morrison Street. My theory--purely speculation in the absence of any hard evidence--is that the Frankfort station was designed as a transfer point. With the opening of the I&F line in 1918, replacing the previous route from Louisville and Indianapolis via trackage rights over the LE&W to Kokomo, all trains from the south, particularly those from the capital city, would now have to bypass Logansport. The Van's line intersected the Pan Handle main about a mile and a half west of the downtown station, requiring a back-up move if the PH station were to be used. Instead, Frankfort was used to transfer passengers from Indianapolis-Chicago through trains to South Bend locals--which used the Van's big, barn-like depot on North 3rd Street in Logansport. The question I offer is two-fold. We know precisely when this new, modern station opened. However, we do not know exactly when it closed, or even better, why. This station was less than 20 years old when it was razed and replaced by a much less satisfactory successor--an old freight station. All that is left today is a short segment of the concrete walk which flanked the headhouse. Anyone have any clues? More importantly, does anyone have an Indianapolis division ETT with a general order covering the depot change? (All I know for sure is that the City directory for 1938 lists the modern station, the 1942 directory lists the old freight station address as depot.) Any help would be appreciated. Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:49:21 +0000 From: "Roger P. Hensley" Subject: [PRR] CID Terre Haute Meet X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2beb73fde9d75558d0310d1ebbe71b5e The What, When and Where of the next CID NMRA Meet... October 30, 1999 (Saturday) - Terre Haute, IN Terre Haute National Guard Armory 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. - Open for Dealer set-up at 7:00 a.m. Dealers, clinics, layouts, contests and displays. Contests include Model, Photo and Favorite Caboose (Waycar, Cabin Car, Guard's Van. etc.) This show and sale has the capacity for about 60 dealer tables with additional space for layouts and displays. A separate class room is available for clinics. Clinics: Roger Hensley, Railfanning the Internet Frank Hermanek, Lost Wax Casting Tom Cain, Getting started in Model Railroading Admission: $3.00 per person (children under 12 free with paid adult) The Unaffiliated Girl's Organization will be handling the concessions (Dining Car). For more information or tables call: Jim Nolan - Ph: (812) 268-6667 Roger Roger Hensley 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://cid.railfan.net ====================================== == Central Indiana Division, Midwest Region, NMRA ============== Roger Roger Hensley 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://cid.railfan.net ====================================== == Central Indiana Division, Midwest Region, NMRA ============== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:33:14 EDT Subject: [PRR] N & W Yb-3 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 48c245870d731ca5f0831cb1c8442cb3 According to Pennsy Power 1 the PRR got 6 Yb-3s in May of 1943. Does anyone know how long they lasted on the PRR? Thanks, Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:49:19 -0500 From: bobp@tsc.com (Bob Poortinga) Subject: Re: [PRR] Drawbridge Rule? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d0c7da6eeeb8aa66629c2a1ca812a649 Having worked at all 5 PRR/NYC drawbridges in Chicago, I feel that I can speak with some authority on this subject. "Andrews, Ted" writes: > The PRR had 3 drawbridges in the Chicago area on the Fort Wayne Line: 21st > Street-Chicago River(Chicago), Calument River (Illinois/Indiana state line), > and Indiana Harbor Canal (Whiting, Indiana). The NYC had two drawbridges on > their main line, Calument River and Indiana Harbor Canal. Both the PRR and > NYC drawbridges at Calumet River were basically side by side and both would > have been up or down at any given time. The Indiana Habor Canal drawbridges > for the PRR and NYC were not immediately adjacent to each other but were > within a rock's through away; there is a good chance that these bridges > would have been effected "almost" simultaneously by the same boat. Not so. There was about 1/4 mile between the two bridges on the Indiana Harbor Ship Canal. Some "ore boats" would unload at the docks at Inland Steel Plant #1 which was between the two bridges. The operator at HC (now Hick) actually controlled four bridges: two NYC, one B&O, and one EJ&E. I think the number is now two. > It was > the 21st Street Bridge that was the only additional drawbridge that the PRR > had to encounter. In summary, both the PRR's and NYC's passenger trains had > similar chances in being delayed by the same navigatable traffic. See above. When I worked there, there was little boat traffic at South Branch. > I am not a knowledgeble on laws on navigatable waterways, but I am wondering > if a railroad like the PRR or NYC could secure advance right of way to use > the drawbridges for certian pre-determined blocks of time of a given day? Or > was drawbridge use always first come - first serve? Ships have absolute right of way. I think this is by law. The only time a train may pass in front of a ship is if the train is on the approach and has been given the signal. Ships usually blow their horn when they want the bridge up. If the bridge is not raised in short order, you could expect a call from the Harbor Master. Usually the Harbor Master would call in advance to let you know. Basically, if you saw one of the big "lakers", you raised the bridge ASAP, regardless of anticipated train traffic unless they were close. There was an interesting tradition between the "lakers" and the bridge tenders/operators. As long as you raised the bridge as soon as the boat whistled, the boat crew would "reward" the bridge tender by throwing off a one pound can of coffee as it went by. I was always fascinated by the fact that these huge ships would pass through the draw with only a few feet of clearance on each side. -- Bob Poortinga (mailto:bobp@tsc.com) Bloomington, Indiana USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TAN: Test by Listmaster Date: Wed, 13 Oct 99 19:59:35 -0400 From: Jerry X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 66074ca2366cf95709c3784dfae52860 Had to make an unanticipated change with my e-mail server software. Just want to test to make sure it is routing properly after the change. Please do not respond! Thank you. -------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. http://www.dsop.com listmaster@dsop.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:04:11 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Thanks for the brass advice! X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b17472488bf0577268529a838108a003 Hello list, Thanks to all of you who had the patience to respond to my brass questions; you've helped whittle down my options to a more manageable size. Now, to cough up the cash..... Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:08:26 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Modelling PRR "yard lights" in HO X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b8781b4de500ee77fbeb3349deaa9367 Hello list, All T1 engines and some K4s engines had a "yard light." The K4s engines had them mounted below the headlight or relocated generator and above the keystone number plate. Do any of you have suggestions for modelling them? I've got the Bowser and PSC catalogs and didn't see anything that seemed close; am I overlooking something? The Bowser T1 has the yard light cast in; I'm hoping to find a separate part. Thanks in advance! Doug Kisala PRRT&HS 4932 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:17:38 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Bowser I1sa assembly quirks X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 25001fc4549f612ba66e5ff561f19642 Hello list, I've finally got my I1sa chassis running smoothly; until yesterday my assembled chassis was running unevenly due to an obscure glitch that took me about two weeks to track down. My adage is that running gear problems are never caused by the valve gear or crossheads, but by the side and main rods binding. In this case, I was wrong. The basic chassis with side rods purred like a kitten, but with the valve gear and main rods added, ran lumpily with wildly varying voltage and amp readings. I solved the problem by first isolating the side; I disconnected the right side main rod and valve gear and then the left; my problem was on the left side. I finally nailed the problem when I removed the cast brass crosshead guide cover part # 8671. The mechanism freed up immediately. The cover was binding on the crosshead; it was sitting too far back, so I filed a notch in the front to clear the piston valve. Finally, everything was back to normal, with the engine drawing a half amp at 12 volts. As I said, it's never the valve gear...... Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:31:05 EDT Subject: [PRR] Surprise! #1445 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7b884c69757df49a31783c6d463f2d65 When we show up for the work session at the late Jack Fravert's house, we never know what we'll find. Maybe one of you can help me with the latest finding... Mary spotted this piece out in their garage (which we're starting to think of as next spring's project). It is a round number plate with 3 mounting studs on the back. Of blackish alloy, plating, or paint, or so dirty as to look black, this plate has a shallow rim and the number 1445 cast onto its face. At first glance, the numbers look Pennsy-ish. The 1 and the 4's all have the bottom crossbar characteristic of numbers on PRR number plates. However, the 5' does not have the s-curve in the lower edge of the top stroke that we see on 5's on our K4 (5365) and T1 (5549) keystones. Could this be a close relative (e.g., N&W?). Would welcome some informed guesses here. As announced earlier, auction List 5 (including both the above keystones) will close Nov 10. Rick Tipton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:52:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] USRA 2-8-8-2 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b262b43a50138518b99572f143cd3d0f List, Just read a little tidbit on a model railroad disccusion page of a future model release. Life Like Proto 2000 is getting into the steamer business with it's first release being a USRA 2-8-8-2. Has anyone else heard anything about this? What is the prototype they used and is it passable for the Pennsy x-N&W Y3's? I just checked LifeLikes' webpage and it has nothing mentioned there. I am wondering if that is why someone asked the question earlier today about the color of these locos? I am all ears!.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] F Units Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:55:30 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 818ac520965a101a97bce2f37df910d8 Bill--For a rear view of an F unit with antennas try Pennsy Power II, page 196. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges From: "Michael E. Allen" Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:29:31 EDT X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7303619178bd3ceb5b72e491ac85dc9a They also missed the swing bridge over the D&R Camal at what was once Princeton Draw. MEA On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:19:47 EDT BBReynolds@aol.com writes: >Have yet to see mention in this thread of a Trains magazine cover story on the movable bridges of northern New Jersey c. ten years ago; I think they got all of them, except the RR bridge across the South River. Can't give an issue date, as I'm on the Chicago leg of my forever commute, and the library is back in Philly. > >Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles >IL > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:32:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Drawbridge Rule? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8bf039f588fadaa1fc0f8a7fffc36d83 In a message dated 10/13/1999 5:59:40 PM Central Daylight Time, bobp@tsc.com writes: << Ships have absolute right of way. I think this is by law. The only time a train may pass in front of a ship is if the train is on the approach and has been given the signal. >> I am not sure , but I believe the tradition on the Great Lakes is to call them "boats". Not nit-picking and not positive either, but I usually beat my kids at Trivial Pursuit on just such little known and useless information :-). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:40:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N&W Y3 colors on PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c8cf735e657fd5889694d65764027ec3 In a message dated 10/13/1999 6:46:35 PM Central Daylight Time, doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: << Aside from adding keystone number plates to the smokeboxes, PRR didn't seem to do much to the engines. >> Yup. Keystone number plate and PRR-style marker lights were the only changes, again quoting my new book source from NJ International. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] N&W Y3 colors on PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9ce64cf2706b20c543eb7544356985e8 Bob, I'll take a stab at this one. Purely a guess on my part. The Pennsy went as far as relettering the tender and placing a keystone on the smokebox so my guess is they did repaint them when they "barrowed" them from the N&W. Weren't these locos in storage on N&W property prior to the PRR use? If so then they may have needed a paint job anyway. Again this is speculitive.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:51:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA 2-8-8-2 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ae5ec74475bb58d5eabf539e47c56924 In a message dated 10/13/1999 9:57:28 PM Central Daylight Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: << What is the prototype they used and is it passable for the Pennsy x-N&W Y3's? I just checked LifeLikes' webpage and it has nothing mentioned there. I am wondering if that is why someone asked the question earlier today about the color of these locos? >> Yes, it was the impetus for my question about color. From the other posts on the steam loco list, it appears likely that the first release will include a "modernized", i.e., 1930''s rebuilt, Y3. That model, with a keystone and PRR class lights, will get you the Pennsy-purchased locos, from what I have been able to find out in one day. Bob Zoeller. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bascule Bridges From: "Michael E. Allen" Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:13:10 EDT X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e1a240a7eb0c68c9e7dc2c51dc59b607 They also missed the swing bridge over the D&R Canal at what was once Princeton Draw. MEA On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:19:47 EDT BBReynolds@aol.com writes: >Have yet to see mention in this thread of a Trains magazine cover story on the movable bridges of northern New Jersey c. ten years ago; I think they got all of them, except the RR bridge across the South River. Can't give an issue date, as I'm on the Chicago leg of my forever commute, and the library is back in Philly. > >Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles >IL > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:32:50 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PL Signal plates From: EJ Caylor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a3f7b1bdae1a790a55b8f6a6ccbfa225 I was in Logansport the other day taking some pictures, & I noticed that the PL signals that stand by RACE & VAN had "D" plates under them. What does this mean. Can anyone tell me about operations in Logansport up until the PC merger? Any info would be appreciated. E.J. Caylor Central Indiana Railroad Information Network http://members.tripod.com/Caylorman/rail.htm ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:04:04 -0700 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] N&W Y3 colors on PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4f4b927359feb68c5a5fbdd7e2b7ea1c Hi All, Staufer's PP1 shows #373 on page 26. Side view shows slight differences in railings on pilot deck? and head on shot shows possibly different pilot? Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] 9/54 ETT Philadelphia Div Date: Thu, 14 Oct 99 06:23:36 -0400 From: Jerry X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a5721b91d6eb391c61fe2c3c469d09aa Thanks to Rich Copeland, for lending me the original, there is now a Sept. 26, 1954 edition of the Philadelphia Division Employee Timetable (ETT) online at "Keystone Crossings". It is a 4.3MB Acrobat (PDF) file available for download (and later on CD-ROM). See the "Docs" section at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service" http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:03:42 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N&W Y3 colors on PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dff8a63b88760796b18402745823de75 In a message dated 10/14/1999 3:04:35 AM Central Daylight Time, rond@efn.org writes: << Staufer's PP1 shows #373 on page 26. Side view shows slight differences in railings on pilot deck? and head on shot shows possibly different pilot? >> Those may or may not have been Pennsy changes. N&W 2027 shown in PP1, was one of the six locos sold to PRR, but became PRR 375. PRR 373, with slatted pilot, was ex-N&W 2000. PRR 376 and 378 , with footboard pilots, were N&W 2034 and 2046, respectively. To complete the roster, 374 and 377 were N&W 2008 and 2036, respectively. I don't have photos, at least in Pennsy regalia; will search my limited N&W files for the "before" shots. The NJI book notes that Pennsy replaced the rectangular Alco or round Baldwin builder's plates with an oval Altoona one. I presume the Altoona plate had the HH1 designation on it. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA 2-8-8-2 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:07:27 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cfb867a95bc9239b69b29c5b966f875d Gary and all, >From what I understand, the model is the USRA 2-8-8-2, aka the N&W Y3...which is the exact model that the PRR (as well as AT&SF and UP) picked up during the war. Nice choice in a first locomotive, but then the expected list price is in about the $320.00ish range. Apparently the fine folks at Walthers made a mistake and posted it briefly on their upcoming models page. Bill Daniels -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 7:58 PM Subject: [PRR] USRA 2-8-8-2 List, Just read a little tidbit on a model railroad disccusion page of a future model release. Life Like Proto 2000 is getting into the steamer business with it's first release being a USRA 2-8-8-2. Has anyone else heard anything about this? What is the prototype they used and is it passable for the Pennsy x-N&W Y3's? I just checked LifeLikes' webpage and it has nothing mentioned there. I am wondering if that is why someone asked the question earlier today about the color of these locos? I am all ears!.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:24:42 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA 2-8-8-2 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4c7959e7c984e3556c234430df587ce2 In a message dated 10/14/1999 8:12:33 AM Central Daylight Time, billd@gci-net.com writes: << From what I understand, the model is the USRA 2-8-8-2, aka the N&W Y3...which is the exact model that the PRR (as well as AT&SF and UP) picked up during the war. >> Not necessarily a PRR-talk topic, but Rio Grande also picked up some N&W units during WWII. Virginian and Clinchfield also had originals and the NP Z4 was basically a USRA with Walschaerts valve gear instead of Baker. Each RR added their own details in plumbing, pilots, et al. Cllinchfield and Interstate also had versions built to the smaller boiler USRA blueprint. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR/NW 2-8-8-2 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9f8f61bd548ebfdf632128db522a080f Bill D., List, With the announcment of the Life Like "Y3"/HH1 I will eagerly await the product on the market. That remains one of the dozen or so PRR locos I need to represent the Pennsy's roster. With a $320.00ish list price I supect one could be had for $250-00-$275.00. I would surely look in to one at that price. The $1,000 Custom Brass versions is hard to swallow. Now if they will only announce a plastic J1! I'm Game! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:30:09 -0400 Subject: [PRR] OFFICIAL PULLMAN-STANDARD LIBRARY, VOL. 4 From: "Jerry Britton" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9c6ba3cb022c3c15eceee3805dc494eb Another RARE opportunity on eBay: OFFICIAL PULLMAN-STANDARD LIBRARY, VOL. 4 Item #180931845 "The Official Pullman-Standard Library, Vol. 4, Pennsylvania Railroad," by W. David Randall & William M. Ross. Hardcover, wire-spiral bound, 8-3/4 x 12-3/4, 165 pages. Contains photos and 23-inch foldout pages of floorplan drawings from official Pullman-Standard archives of Pennsylvania Railroad cars. Drawings contain Lot Number, Plan Number, and Serial Number(s) of cars described, and a cross-index list of car names to numbers. In excellent condition. An authoritative, highly-detailed, rare publication. Please note this is a NONRETURNABLE book, thus email any questions before bidding. Postage is dependent on destination and postal option selected by buyer. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:27:09 -0400 From: Eric Lauterbach Subject: [PRR] Preserved N&W Y3a X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c5b053456ddfcd53380c806611b0a9b7 There is one N&W Y3a #2050 preserved at the Illinois Railway Museum. Last time I saw it, it was not in the best condition, but was in one of thier large car barns. Besides the Y3a and the numerous Santa Fe 2-10-4's, are there any other sister engines preserved of engines that Pennsy leased from other railroads? Also, any info on a possible release date for the P2K 2-8-8-2? Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vastano,Sam" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/NW 2-8-8-2 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:36:26 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ff051ea368f46915be40d9f5fafcac46 I will second the motion on a plastic J1! And or Bowser get off you duff!!! Sam -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 9:42 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR/NW 2-8-8-2 Bill D., List, With the announcment of the Life Like "Y3"/HH1 I will eagerly await the product on the market. That remains one of the dozen or so PRR locos I need to represent the Pennsy's roster. With a $320.00ish list price I supect one could be had for $250-00-$275.00. I would surely look in to one at that price. The $1,000 Custom Brass versions is hard to swallow. Now if they will only announce a plastic J1! I'm Game! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:48:48 -0500 (CDT) From: harperd@tamug.tamu.edu (Don Harper) Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser I1sa assembly quirks X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f0aa1a5dc59b8cfd2d67ff9289363516 >I finally nailed the problem when I removed the cast brass crosshead >guide cover part # 8671. The mechanism freed up immediately. The cover >was binding on the crosshead; it was sitting too far back, so I filed a >notch in the front to clear the piston valve. You may also find that the combination lever rubs on the "rivets" of the crosshead guide. By the way, the cylinder to smokebox steam pipe is definitely the wrong size. If you check out the front end drawing in the Cyclopedia, you see that the pipe attaches to the smokebox much higher than the model casting does. (Sigh) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TAN: Fear Not - Listmeister Date: Thu, 14 Oct 99 17:06:47 -0400 From: Jerry X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5d5cf9d8445db527e3a968fce72c7801 Fear not, the past 24 hours is NOT an indicator of on-going mail problems at DSOP.COM and PENNSYRR.COM. Two months ago I resolved the mail duping problem by upgrading the OS on my mail server and replacing the server with a demo of Eudora Internet Mail Server -- with which I remain very impressed. I tried like heck to purchase EIMS through Qualcomm's sole distributor, Beyond.com. Well, it was "Beyond.me" why anyone buys software through them! Anyway, I had extreme difficulty in getting the "live" version downloaded before the demo expired...today. So, last night I switched to Stalker Internet Mail Server to get me by. It sucked! Anyway, I now have a fully registered copy of EIMS and am back to where I was 24 hours ago. However, the mail queues are also where they were 24 hours ago. This means some of you may receive a message a second time. Do not be alarmed! I am also alerting you that any mail you may have sent to me or to the lists may not have reached its destination. Please repost if you do not get a response or see your message on the lists. Thank you! -------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. http://www.dsop.com listmaster@dsop.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:22:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Race Street engine Treminal X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7938e830eb85708a9d2a50537164c2cf What type engines frequented the Race STreet Engine Terminal in 1950, 1955 and 1960? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:32:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] RE: N & W Y6b's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 38336bdeb2f62c721e21b3fec87f61c2 Joel. Pennsy recieved them in 7-43 as you say and scrapped them as follows. # 373 11-47, #374 6-48, #375 4-48, #376 3-48, #377 9-49, and #378 7-48. All were built in 1919 by Alco for the N&W. I will have to dig into my photo albums to see if I have any pics and where they operated at. Later...Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Race Street engine Treminal Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:37:31 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c8ace45707a2e31fc91a8c2cf7815b2a In 1962 you could find all kinds of Baldwin switchers plus a few Baldwin Roadswitchers, notably the 8110 that was used on the various race trains. PRSL Baldwins were also there. And of course the ubiquitous GG-1s. There were NO EMDs of any type, sort or stripe. I never saw an Alco PA tie up there but since they were used on the Atlantic City trains they had to deadhead out to 46th Street to be turned. It is possible that they wyed them at Zoo Tower but i can't say that for sure. The 30th Street yard was sometimes switched with steam generator equipped Baldwin roadswitchers but the exact numbers escape me at the moment. I know the 5976 wasn't one because we had that critter out at Chicago. After I get a chance to do a little research, i am sure I can tell you which steam generator Baldwins haunted 30th Street yard. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: NDBPRR@aol.com To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 5:29 PM Subject: [PRR] Race Street engine Treminal >What type engines frequented the Race STreet Engine Terminal in 1950, 1955 >and 1960? Thanks. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: N & W Y6b's (Hitting girders) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:39:29 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 207b5b3e79d909ab52b600af92f0ee1e Some were used out of Elmira, or so I was told by those who worked there. I understand there was a problem with the wide cylinders striking the bridge girders on certain lines and they had to be very careful where they were used. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 5:40 PM Subject: [PRR] RE: N & W Y6b's Joel. Pennsy recieved them in 7-43 as you say and scrapped them as follows. # 373 11-47, #374 6-48, #375 4-48, #376 3-48, #377 9-49, and #378 7-48. All were built in 1919 by Alco for the N&W. I will have to dig into my photo albums to see if I have any pics and where they operated at. Later...Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:53:03 EDT Subject: [PRR] HH1 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0fdb1af02e16d0624de2ba4a1d6fd1fb Hi Gary and list - Many years ago I decided to build an HH1 using a Rivarossi chassis and boiler and what few pictures, dimensions and commentary were at hand at that time. As I remember I had to remove a lot from the boiler (especially the piping on the top). I removed the original motor and mounted a small can in between the gear columns to the two drive units. Added a lot of brass parts and it looked pretty decent. When I got to the front pilot I found photographs of three different versions of the porch area and was trying to decide which to use when a friend of mine opened a leather bound book (old) which had a picture of a Pennsy HH1 with a Y6 pilot. Now a lo of things happened during W.W.II with motive power and also ownership's of railroads. My question is. Did Pennsy design the front truck area that was later used on the Y6? But as previously stated I have seen a picture of a Y3 Pennsy with a Y6 pilot. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:23:00 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser I1sa assembly quirks X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 64a81dccb68e1fe8ebc28163fe6ce350 Don and the list, Good point! I forgot to mention that I also filed off the rivets on the crosshead guide; I also ended up bending the combination lever a little. Doug Don Harper wrote: > >I finally nailed the problem when I removed the cast brass crosshead > >guide cover part # 8671. The mechanism freed up immediately. The cover > >was binding on the crosshead; it was sitting too far back, so I filed a > >notch in the front to clear the piston valve. > > You may also find that the combination lever rubs on the "rivets" of the crosshead guide. > > By the way, the cylinder to smokebox steam pipe is definitely the wrong size. If you check out the front end drawing in the Cyclopedia, you see that the pipe attaches to the smokebox much higher than the model casting does. (Sigh) > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Re: Re; PRR HH1's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 82f0292a6df798815487785dec3ee1d1 List, No photos in my collection but I was looking through Black Gold/Black Diamonds (nice photo, page 126) and the author states they spent most of their Pennsy careers out in Columbus area. Seems like all the big power ended up there. J's, CC's to name a few. http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:12:29 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Model railroad discussion lists X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 446fce0e2f39302d3d3f6e87e0c57b24 Hello list, I've been unlucky accessing Keystone Crossings tonight (things sometimes happen slowly or not at all here in Texas....), so I'll pose this to the list. What model railroad discussion lists are there? The news about the Lifelike P2K USRA 2882 mallets took me by surprise; I don't want to miss other late breaking news (I'm eagerly awaiting my Athearn PRR mike, for one thing). Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:33:40 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Model railroad discussion lists X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e5dd577552a3eb560ca267fbf3512ddb Hi Doug: The only MRR list I'm familiar with is HOrailroading@onelist.com Hope this helps Larry doug.kisala wrote: > Hello list, > > I've been unlucky accessing Keystone Crossings tonight (things sometimes > happen slowly or not at all here in Texas....), so I'll pose this to the > list. > > What model railroad discussion lists are there? The news about the > Lifelike P2K USRA 2882 mallets took me by surprise; I don't want to miss > other late breaking news (I'm eagerly awaiting my Athearn PRR mike, for > one thing). > > Thanks in advance! > > Doug > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:41:16 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: N & W Y6b's (Hitting girders) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fa529f491b921d214e03fcc1abfba049 In a message dated 10/14/1999 7:06:03 PM Central Daylight Time, herzog1@gate.net writes: << Pennsy recieved them in 7-43 as you say and scrapped them as follows. # 373 11-47, #374 6-48, #375 4-48, #376 3-48, #377 9-49, and #378 7-48. All were built in 1919 by Alco for the N&W. >> Right or wrong, the NJI book says 378 was built by Baldwin. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Josh Trower" Subject: Re: [PRR] Model railroad discussion lists Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:03:10 EDT X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e73e72e2e92aa7ff7f52fd59e983f57e Hiya: If you like you can join my MR list at: www.onelist.com/community/proto_northeast It is devoted to modelers interested in modeling northeastern RR prototypes. Currently only two members, but that will hopefully change soon. -Josh T. >From: "doug.kisala" >To: "prr-talk@dsop.com" >Subject: [PRR] Model railroad discussion lists >Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:12:29 -0500 > >Hello list, > >I've been unlucky accessing Keystone Crossings tonight (things sometimes >happen slowly or not at all here in Texas....), so I'll pose this to the >list. > >What model railroad discussion lists are there? The news about the >Lifelike P2K USRA 2882 mallets took me by surprise; I don't want to miss >other late breaking news (I'm eagerly awaiting my Athearn PRR mike, for >one thing). > >Thanks in advance! > >Doug > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:35:21 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Model railroad discussion lists X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6e5df1a6accf616b00284103b3ffc1a9 In a message dated 10/14/1999 11:27:09 PM Central Daylight Time, doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: << What model railroad discussion lists are there? The news about the Lifelike P2K USRA 2882 mallets took me by surprise; I don't want to miss other late breaking news (I'm eagerly awaiting my Athearn PRR mike, for one thing). >> The P2K info came up on the steamloco list. But for "The Mother of All Railroad Chat Lists" go the Operations SIG URL: http://members.aol.com/Opsigmem/chatlist.html Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:43:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Re; PRR HH1's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 348477abeee32edd3c862de5275e75ea In a message dated 10/14/1999 11:36:57 PM Central Daylight Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: << No photos in my collection but I was looking through Black Gold/Black Diamonds (nice photo, page 126) and the author states they spent most of their Pennsy careers out in Columbus area. Seems like all the big power ended up there. J's, CC's to name a few. >> They were acquired for hump and transfer service. Started at Enola and supposedly worked on the branch to Hagerstown. Then, as you stated, they went to Columbus. BTW, the 373, ex-N&W 2000, was the very first USRA 2-8-8-2. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Model railroad discussion lists Date: Fri, 15 Oct 99 06:29:09 -0400 From: Jerry X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 32d1a42de75a4a43b37bee408fd6fa68 On 10/14/99 9:33 PM, Larry Reynolds (reynoldl@gte.net) wrote: >The only MRR list I'm familiar with is HOrailroading@onelist.com > There is a MODELRR list, but traffic is extremely light. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service" http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:28:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Model railroad discussion lists X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7c20829fc1964d85b48c8a3c0c90b0a3 There is a quite active railroading section in AOL. There are about 40 topic areas including different scales, engine types, photography, railfanning, rumors, etc.. The LL 2-8-8-2 discussion has been ongoing for two to three weeks now. It seems someone saw it in Walthers new catalog or on their website where it was posted prematurely. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:42:55 -0400 From: hosam Subject: [PRR] N&W Y's and PRR HH1's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1cd4bac26359ff5f51f0b63479e6355e Good Morning, In a message dated 10/14/1999 7:06:03 PM Central Daylight Time, herzog1@gate.net writes: << Pennsy recieved them in 7-43 as you say and scrapped them as follows. # 373 11-47, #374 6-48, #375 4-48, #376 3-48, #377 9-49, and #378 7-48. All were built in 1919 by Alco for the N&W. >> Right or wrong, the NJI book says 378 was built by Baldwin. Bob Zoeller Here is a copy of my post to the SMRF group, maybe it is of interest here. Can someone correlate the HH1 numbers to the N&W Y3a numbers???? Also it is my understanding the engines borrowed by the PRR were copies(N&W classY3a)built by Alco in 1923. Here are the specs for the USRA 2-8-8-2 engines(original) Type 2-8-8-2 Steam pressure, psi 240 Cylinder bore x stroke 25 x 32 & 39 x 32 Driver dia, in. 57 Tractive effort, lbs. 101,300 Valve gear Baker Boiler dia, in 97-105 Weight of engine, lbs 531,000 Number built 80 Tender 8 wheel USRA type Here are the specs for the N&W Y3 USRA originals #2000-2049. Type 2-8-8-2 Steam pressure, psi 240 Cylinder bore x stroke 25 x 32 & 39 x 32 Driver dia, in. 57 Tractive effort, lbs. 101,300 Valve gear Baker Boiler dia, in 97-105 Weight of engine, lbs 531,000 Number built 50 (45 from Alco and 5 from Baldwin) Tender 8 wheel USRA type The Virginian had 20 of the original USRA engines #701-720 built by Alco in 1919. The B&O had some original USRA engines, I don't have the data. The Clinchfield also had some original USRA engines, no data. The specs for the N&W class Y3a and Y4 were the same but these were copies of the original USRA designs. There were 40 of these built by Alco in 1923 and 1927. The Y3a were numbered 2050-2079 the Y4's numbered 2080-2089. The Y3a introduced the 12 wheel tender. The engines borrowed by the PRR were the Y3a units and were classed as HH-1 on the PRR. The Y5 was built from 1930 to 1932 using the same specs #2090-2119. Not sure about these numbers. Here are the specs for the Y6a built from 1936-1948 and Y6b built from 1948 to 1952.The Y6a were numbered from 2120-2170 and the Y6B from 2171-2200. Type 2-8-8-2 Steam pressure, psi 300 Cylinder bore x stroke 25 x 32 & 39 x 32 Driver dia, in. 58 Tractive effort, lbs. 126,838 Valve gear Baker Boiler dia, in 97-105 Weight of engine, lbs 582,900 All in all there were 191 of the original USRA and copies built for the N&W. Thanks in advance for any additions and or corrections to this listing.... Take care, hosam(S.A. McCall) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] New Product Info. X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 728a4ecf5215e3b30ef27f35e5f5c3cf Doug, List While surfing through the MR Discussion group through my webtv set up this morning I found this url: http://www.central-hobbies.com/products/index.htmlposted by someone. It is an announcment on upcoming Locos to be produced by the Plastic companies, IE: LifeLike, Bachmann. Included is a Canadian Hobby Distributor's? press release of the Proto 2000 2-8-8-2. Also word has it that LifeLike Proto 1000 by way of the Canadian market is going to release the C-Liners as prevously heard. For now they are listing the CP versions. But also on the list is the PRR versions among other US Roads. These have no release date however. Other news I seen was the Russian Decapod, a Bachmann 3 truck shay, and news (rumors) that the long awaited Athearn Genisis F-units are delayed because of a broken nose mold. Looks like we are in for a treat in the upcoming years. Speaking of the Russian Decapods. I remember reading in an early (1969-1973?) issue of the Keystone Mag, the information exchage to be exact. that a PRRT&HS member wrote in a question about if the Pennsy ever used any of these locos. Whoever was in charge of the answering came up with this answer. YES, several were used at Conway yards. I suppose if this is true it would have been in the late 19-teens. Also if this was true wouldn't there be any records of this happening? Does anyone else remember reading that question and answer that was posted in the Keystone? Anyone else confirm that answer that was given? If true than a Russian Decapod is in my future Pennsy roster. If you are wondering (Doug) what Model Railroad Disccusion Group I read, that is a GOOD question. I have no idea what the url is. When I click for that information I recieve a message "this is part of webtv". It gives me some other words but it isn't the address. I tried to send the whole site to you but it gives me that same message, "This is part of webtv community which can not be sent". VERY STRANGE because there are people using it with out webtv email address. I will continue to figure this one out. This is a very active site. Lots of traffic and info, complaints, opinions and the like. Stay tuned!.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR HH1-Y3 #'s X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6424600acf17a700173449a5ef00e02a   HOSAM, List I am getting my information from William Edson's Book-- Keystone Steam and Electric. These are the numbers of the N&W Y3' the PRR used. PRR # 373 was N&W #2000, PRR #374 was N&W #2008, PRR #375 was N&W #2027, PRR #376 was N&W #2034, PRR #377 was N&W #2036 and PRR #378 was N&W #2046. He states they were all built by Alco in 1919. Right or Wrong this is what appears in this book. Gary Original messages::: [PRR] N&W Y's and PRR HH1's Good Morning, In a message dated 10/14/1999 7:06:03 PM Central Daylight Time, herzog1@gate.net writes: <<           Pennsy recieved them in 7-43 as you say and scrapped them as follows. # 373 11-47, #374 6-48, #375 4-48, #376 3-48, #377 9-49, and #378 7-48. All were built in 1919 by Alco for the N&W. >> Right or wrong, the NJI book says 378 was built by Baldwin. Bob Zoeller Here is a copy of my post to the SMRF group, maybe it is of interest here. Can someone correlate the HH1 numbers to the N&W Y3a numbers???? Also it is my understanding the engines borrowed by the PRR were copies(N&W classY3a)built by Alco in 1923. http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] URL X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8295ba42defc77cdb872cee22e4c5385 List, Whoops. As you may hace figured out I missed typed the URL in my previous posting. Here is the correct one......Gary http://www.central-hobbies.com/products/index.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:55:13 -0400 From: hosam Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR HH1-Y3 #'s X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f50b5bdd350c0d2db6d2e232c05c954e Good Morning, Now the numbers have ben correlated seems as if my understanding was in error. It was based upon the fact the original USRA engines had 8 wheel tenders and the pics I have of PRR engines show 12 wheel tenders. These tenders could have been changed around or all could have been swapped with larger tenders as all subsequent tenders (Y3A on) were 12 wheel. Engines 2000,2008,2027,2034 and 2036 were Alco built. Engine 2046 was Baldwin built. This seems to get the numbers etc straight, thanks for the input... At 10:45 AM 10/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >  HOSAM, List > > I am getting my information from William Edson's Book-- Keystone >Steam and Electric. These are the numbers of the N&W Y3' the PRR used. >PRR # 373 was N&W #2000, PRR #374 was N&W #2008, PRR #375 was N&W #2027, >PRR #376 was N&W #2034, PRR #377 was N&W #2036 and PRR #378 was N&W >#2046. He states they were all built by Alco in 1919. Right or Wrong >this is what appears in this book. Gary > >Original messages::: > > [PRR] N&W Y's and PRR HH1's >Good Morning, >In a message dated 10/14/1999 7:06:03 PM Central Daylight Time, >herzog1@gate.net writes: ><< >          Pennsy recieved them in 7-43 as you say >and scrapped them as follows. # 373 11-47, #374 6-48, #375 4-48, #376 >3-48, #377 9-49, and #378 7-48. All were built in 1919 by Alco for the >N&W. >> >Right or wrong, the NJI book says 378 was built by Baldwin. >Bob Zoeller Take care, hosam(S.A. McCall) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:01:52 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Re; PRR HH1's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d9f8a9dea9411fa4f335f658fbccd732 In a message dated 10/14/99 11:43:23 PM Central Daylight Time, I wrote: << BTW, the 373, ex-N&W 2000, was the very first USRA 2-8-8-2. >> It actually was produced for the Virginian, but they backed out because they didn't think a 16 drivered loco would cut it and it went to N&W. Virginian took delivery of a later batch. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:07:38 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N&W Y's and PRR HH1's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 370e17609bfbe78def4bd076cf7b3823 In a message dated 10/15/99 9:43:55 AM Central Daylight Time, hosam@amaze.net writes: << Can someone correlate the HH1 numbers to the N&W Y3a numbers???? >> Extracting from my previous post (don't know if this got lost): ". N&W 2027 shown in PP1, was one of the six locos sold to PRR, but became PRR 375. PRR 373, with slatted pilot, was ex-N&W 2000. PRR 376 and 378 , with footboard pilots, were N&W 2034 and 2046, respectively. To complete the roster, 374 and 377 were N&W 2008 and 2036, respectively. " Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:15:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR HH1-Y3 #'s X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fcaa1e099695b2f32fb0f3737067540f In a message dated 10/15/99 11:09:12 AM Central Daylight Time, hosam@amaze.net writes: << It was based upon the fact the original USRA engines had 8 wheel tenders and the pics I have of PRR engines show 12 wheel tenders. These tenders could have been changed around or all could have been swapped with larger tenders as all subsequent tenders (Y3A on) were 12 wheel. >> I believe the 1930's modernization on the N&W included the addition of the 12-wheel tenders, but will check tonight when I get home. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:17:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N&W Y's and PRR HH1's "SAL" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e733158b1c70a4bff4f9a2442beb8216 The Seaboard had 16 of these that were built by Richmond in 1917-18 and they sold them in 1920, could any of these made there way to the Pennsy? Harold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:19:54 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Product Info. X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6e4808a8d2e27739ae9c06ac80dacd76 Gary and the list, Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. I've already subscribed to a couple of lists, and I don't feel as out of the loop as I used to! Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > Doug, List > > While surfing through the MR Discussion group through my webtv set > up this morning I found this url: > http://www.central-hobbies.com/products/index.htmlposted by someone. It > is an announcment on upcoming Locos to be produced by the Plastic > companies, IE: LifeLike, Bachmann. Included is a Canadian Hobby > Distributor's? press release of the Proto 2000 2-8-8-2. Also word has it > that LifeLike Proto 1000 by way of the Canadian market is going to > release the C-Liners as prevously heard. For now they are listing the CP > versions. But also on the list is the PRR versions among other US Roads. > These have no release date however. > Other news I seen was the Russian Decapod, a Bachmann 3 truck shay, > and news (rumors) that the long awaited Athearn Genisis F-units are > delayed because of a broken nose mold. Looks like we are in for a treat > in the upcoming years. > Speaking of the Russian Decapods. I remember reading in an early > (1969-1973?) issue of the Keystone Mag, the information exchage to be > exact. that a PRRT&HS member wrote in a question about if the Pennsy > ever used any of these locos. Whoever was in charge of the answering > came up with this answer. YES, several were used at Conway yards. I > suppose if this is true it would have been in the late 19-teens. Also if > this was true wouldn't there be any records of this happening? Does > anyone else remember reading that question and answer that was posted > in the Keystone? Anyone else confirm that answer that was given? If true > than a Russian Decapod is in my future Pennsy roster. > If you are wondering (Doug) what Model Railroad Disccusion Group I > read, that is a GOOD question. I have no idea what the url is. When I > click for that information I recieve a message "this is part of webtv". > It gives me some other words but it isn't the address. I tried to send > the whole site to you but it gives me that same message, "This is part > of webtv community which can not be sent". VERY STRANGE because there > are people using it with out webtv email address. I will continue to > figure this one out. This is a very active site. Lots of traffic and > info, complaints, opinions and the like. Stay tuned!.....Gary > > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:54:12 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Newsgroups X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7839361f342effae05228cde1a9ddd45 Hello list, Thank you all once again for your help with the newsgroups. I've sent an email to my ISP, as I've been unable to find the Usenet newsgroup. I did subscribe to onelist; that, at least, seems to be straightforward. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:35:39 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Model railroad discussion lists X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cfa478ab152c5c3e6a5e5ce406e92106 Doug and All, Here is an on going list for those of you who model the North East: NEModelers@onelist.com It is quite active and we have been discussing the future release of LIFE LIKE's Proto 1000 series RDC-2. We are trying to help LL with proper lettering of Boston and Maine's RDC-2 fleet. Don't ask as we have not heard whether they ever intend on doing the RDC-1. There is a lot of speculation as to why the RDC-2 Vs the RDC-1 but I would have to believe that it is because the RDC-1 & # were produced for years by Athearn and the market may not be there for those two versions. Does anyone remember when the B&O ran theirs out of the Smith Street station in the early 70's. I have some great slides of those! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Streamliners photo location From: Fred G Rea Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:57:01 EDT X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e2422d91359728a0552f48ec805f2f28 I have been enjoying the book "Pennsy Streamliners, The Blue Ribbon Fleet" by Joe Welsh. I know this book was mentioned some time ago on the List. I don't recall that any one raised this question. On page 84 there is a nice shot of a T1 with some varnish in tow. The caption reads, in part, "T1 5500 has the Cincinnati Limited eastbound in Columbus Ohio....." After studying the photo in an attempt to locate it in Columbus, I think it must be in some other city. The structures and the hill in the background do not correlate with any Columbus location I know of. Do you agree, and if it is not in Columbus, where was the photo taken? The best clues would be the tower barely visible to the left of the T1's nose and the electrical transmission tower and large building above the rear of the train. Do any of you recognize these features? Another concern is the T1 on a Cincy train. Do I recall comments that T1s could not be turned in Cincy, or at least not with out uncoupling the tender? This is really a "nit pick" as it is a great book! Fred Rea Columbus, OH ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:02:58 -0500 From: Richard Wallis Subject: [PRR] Stub switch demise X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ef9d39231b43868dd54ae048cd164c7d Hello list: Here's one for you mechanical historians. When (roughly, of course) would the usage of stub-type switches (non-mitred points) have passed out of general use in terminal side-tracks and yards? I need to have an approximate time-frame so I can identify and date pictures. I realize that many such installations would probably continue in use for many years even after their general use ceased (particularly in terminals), but even a broad time span would be helpful. Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 19:39:12 EDT Subject: [PRR] L&N Pullman in Tuscan X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c8e1a9918928ab92db8d15b0d933cfce Folks, As a note of interest I was looking through the new Morning Sun book, Trackside Chicago, today and noticed that a string of passenger cars being towed by a C&WI RS1 includes a shot of an L&N Pullman in Pennsy colors. Lettering also appears to be Pennsy style. Thought I might mention this as the subject has been discussed here before. Date of photo is said to be April, 1963. I almost didn't notice the unusual car. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:47:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR Russsian Decapods??? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 76485ca25651bf6685c2471f436fe9d9 List, This is a follow up to my posting about this subject yesterday. I have found the Keystone issue that brought this question up originaly. The Keystone Vol.3 #1 (1970) has a question in the info exchange as follows. "Info on the Russian Decapods used on the PRR Fort Wayne Division during World War 2". There is a follow up answer in the Vol3 #3 (1970) issue that has the this statement. "Some Russian Decapods were used during World War 1 on the PRR's Eastern Division. 2 were used as trimmer engines at Conway Yard. They were not used in road service because the small drivers kept them from attaining the necessary speeds". This answer was from a Dick Adams. Now that said, is this in fact true. Any photos to verify Russian Decapods on the Pennsy?....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:32:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Streamliners photo location X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3a7f5eeb49e16a36b7ff8ca994d2b8bc In a message dated 10/15/99 10:07:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: << Another concern is the T1 on a Cincy train. Do I recall comments that T1s could not be turned in Cincy, or at least not with out uncoupling the tender? >> CUT had a very large engine facility with a sizable turntable. Unfortunately I do not know how long it was. Besides Cinncy, I know that the T1's were used into Louisville. Though there was a wye at Clagg tower in Louisville to turn power on. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:23:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] Trackside Chicago/ Branchline 50 ft Box cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c803de64e8fccd07e25a3746ae7d477c Folks, Just picked up a copy of Morning Sun's Trackside Chicago, and it's a winner. Covers the period mid 50's to early 60's and has lots of good photos of not only class one's but area shortlines and terminal operations. (I didn't know there was a Chicago area line with Iron Range in it's nane!) If you're into urban railroading, this one's right up your alley. Also picked up a couple of the new Branchline 50' single door AAR's. The detail is very good, right down to correct roofs and ends and side sills, and I can't say enough for the paint jobs. Nice to see a manurfacturer who actually gets Pennsy freight car red correct. Another nice touch is indicating the purchase date of the prototype car (eg: Erie 1954, LV 1956) right on the box end under the road nane. Don't think I've seen this done before. Metel wheelsets are another bonus. At $12.95 list, I think another winner connected. Well, happy railroading on a beautiful fall day.(Wish my wife didn't have me painting the basement stairway wall and ceiling this afternoon. Oh well, more delayed gratification.) Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 01:31:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Russsian Decapods??? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: be7f3efec414a6fc2c10082e3219475d Gize, The real question was who's Russian Decapods were they? Did they get them from Uncle Sam or did they borrow someone's? Greg Martin << "Some Russian Decapods were used during World War 1 on the PRR's Eastern Division. 2 were used as trimmer engines at Conway Yard. They were not used in road service because the small drivers kept them from attaining the necessary speeds". This answer was from a Dick Adams. Now that said, is this in fact true. Any photos to verify Russian Decapods on the Pennsy?....Gary >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Russsian Decapods??? Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 07:47:42 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b772a8c151d676e4fd319b57938b2fd5 Hi Greg, If I recall correctly, Uncle Sam never owned these locomotives...they were built under contract of the Imperial Russian Government by Baldwin, and only a handfull made it over to Russia before the Bolshevic Revolution cancelled the order. Baldwin converted them to standard gauge (they were built to 5' gauge (aka BART gauge) and sold them off to whoever would pony up the bucks. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 11:42:01 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Stub switch demise X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2c09ead75ec75dd74c235872748eff98 If I was to guess it would be before 1900. The stub switch was more popular with narrow gauge than standard. The Vandalia did have some of the New Wharton switches that were completely out of the ordinary, instead of having a frog, a "ramp" of sorts was moved into place for the flanges to run over the interesecting rail, this had to be nothing but disasterous with the rigid frames of Steam power. Steve Long Richard Wallis wrote: > Hello list: > > Here's one for you mechanical historians. When (roughly, of course) > would the usage of stub-type switches (non-mitred points) have passed > out of general use in terminal side-tracks and yards? I need to have an > approximate time-frame so I can identify and date pictures. > > I realize that many such installations would probably continue in use > for many years even after their general use ceased (particularly in > terminals), but even a broad time span would be helpful. > > Richard Wallis > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Stub switch demise Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:55:57 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e7081257019c1f1babc92c68d5d46786 Lots of stub switches at the East Broad Top RR. Some are three-way. Not sure when they went in but they are still used. Roy Breon Pittsford, NY roybreon@netzero.net -----Original Message----- From: Steve Long To: Richard Wallis Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Stub switch demise >If I was to guess it would be before 1900. The stub switch was more popular >with narrow gauge than standard. The Vandalia did have some of the New >Wharton switches that were completely out of the ordinary, instead of having >a frog, a "ramp" of sorts was moved into place for the flanges to run over >the interesecting rail, this had to be nothing but disasterous with the >rigid frames of Steam power. >Steve Long > >Richard Wallis wrote: > >> Hello list: >> >> Here's one for you mechanical historians. When (roughly, of course) >> would the usage of stub-type switches (non-mitred points) have passed >> out of general use in terminal side-tracks and yards? I need to have an >> approximate time-frame so I can identify and date pictures. >> >> I realize that many such installations would probably continue in use >> for many years even after their general use ceased (particularly in >> terminals), but even a broad time span would be helpful. >> >> Richard Wallis >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:50:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] L&N Pullman in Tuscan X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 064c7e719787ea56c399c5c0d0c74745 In a message dated 10/16/99 6:36:02 PM Mountain Daylight Time, BPX29@aol.com writes: << As a note of interest I was looking through the new Morning Sun book, Trackside Chicago, today and noticed that a string of passenger cars being towed by a C&WI RS1 includes a shot of an L&N Pullman in Pennsy colors. Lettering also appears to be Pennsy style. >> This was one of the Southwind pool cars. There's a good chance it was the "Green River". Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:29:57 -0500 From: Richard Wallis Subject: [PRR] Stub switches X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 42173518f873f48af47866734b85975b To Hank, Hal, Steve, Roy, Joe & everyone else: Thank you for responding to my query about stub switches. As Joe put it best, perhaps I am "looking for a needle in a haystack." But as you have all made amply clear, use of this type of switch lasted too long to date any picture with accuracy. The reason I asked is that I recently acquired a dandy photo of the "old" Terre Haute Union Depot at (10th & Chestnut) which has a clearly visible stub switch in one of the foreground yard tracks. Since there is no sign of the turreted tower of the "new" Union Depot in the distance, it clearly predates 1891. But that is no real help in dating the picture. Ergo, the best bet is to caption it in "the 1880s" and leave it go at that. Nothing else within view helps narrow it down. So, thanks for setting me straight. Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:23:01 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Stub switches X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2ac4638296ad9bd9fd8c259b7ed32e1c It appears that stub switches moved out of general use on standard gauge lines c. 1890-1910; only photos (or is that photoes, Mr. Quayle??) I've seen are on Colorado narrow gauge lines; only up-front-and-personal that I've seen is the East Broad Top at Orbisonia PA (is there anyother working example??). Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Nile IL (but soon to leave after 38 months) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:59:30 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] L&N Pullman in Tuscan X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2b82939eac9e1dc65df495d06b34ff62 The L&N was one of only two RRs that I know of which painted some of their thru car to match the PRR. The other was the RF&P. Does anyone know what service the RF&P cars were used in? Probably not Florida service since the RF&P also had cars in the ACL and SEAB schemes for those trains. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > Folks, > As a note of interest I was looking through the new Morning Sun book, > Trackside Chicago, today and noticed that a string of passenger cars being > towed by a C&WI RS1 includes a shot of an L&N Pullman in Pennsy colors. > Lettering also appears to be Pennsy style. > Thought I might mention this as the subject has been discussed here before. > Date of photo is said to be April, 1963. I almost didn't notice the unusual > car. > Regards, > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:47:17 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] L&N Pullman in Tuscan X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5050139f47a94f4903146b8afd5f5bdf Atlantic Coast Line also had some cars painted in PRR colors. I have a picture of ACL coach #209 painted in the Fleet of Modernism paint scheme, date unknown but it is a Budd car and it looks like a builders photo. I have no idea of when or how long this car remained in this color scheme. Frank Brua Andy Miller wrote: > The L&N was one of only two RRs that I know of which painted some of > their thru car to match the PRR. The other was the RF&P. Does anyone > know what service the RF&P cars were used in? Probably not Florida > service since the RF&P also had cars in the ACL and SEAB schemes for > those trains. > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > =================================================== > BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > > > Folks, > > As a note of interest I was looking through the new Morning Sun book, > > Trackside Chicago, today and noticed that a string of passenger cars being > > towed by a C&WI RS1 includes a shot of an L&N Pullman in Pennsy colors. > > Lettering also appears to be Pennsy style. > > Thought I might mention this as the subject has been discussed here before. > > Date of photo is said to be April, 1963. I almost didn't notice the unusual > > car. > > Regards, > > Barry Peltier > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] RE: X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: babcfdb7327cbdef4d71f852ed1099b7 List, I think we should know what the dues would be for each year prior to voting for a dues. Has an amount been brought up yet? Did I miss it?...Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:08:17 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [pcl] Re: [PRR] L&N Pullman in Tuscan X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 943f107094ea0809baec16b6758ce348 Don, AFAIK The NH never painted anything in PRR colors. The through Bost-DC service NH equipment was always "American Flyer" streamlined stuff in the then current NH colors. As far as I can tell the original Senator was all PRR "Congo" type equipment; the original Colonial was all NH AF equipment; and the Patriot was always whatever. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== "Donald B. Valentine" wrote: > > Andy, > What about New Haven cars for the Congressional and/or the Senator that you > were constructing back in 1968 or 1969 when you also did the Seaboard car with > the glass > roof? Regards, > Don > > Andy Miller wrote: > > > The L&N was one of only two RRs that I know of which painted some of > > their thru car to match the PRR. The other was the RF&P. Does anyone > > know what service the RF&P cars were used in? Probably not Florida > > service since the RF&P also had cars in the ACL and SEAB schemes for > > those trains. > > > > Regards, > > > > Andy Miller > > asmiller@mitre.org > > > > =================================================== > > BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Folks, > > > As a note of interest I was looking through the new Morning Sun book, > > > Trackside Chicago, today and noticed that a string of passenger cars being > > > towed by a C&WI RS1 includes a shot of an L&N Pullman in Pennsy colors. > > > Lettering also appears to be Pennsy style. > > > Thought I might mention this as the subject has been discussed here before. > > > Date of photo is said to be April, 1963. I almost didn't notice the unusual > > > car. > > > Regards, > > > Barry Peltier > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > -- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:10:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] NH on the corridor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8fb874de5142a7fe3f42e3d7dccf8585 As long as the NH has come up it reminded me about a picture I saw in one of the publications of a NH Jet in Baltimore. Did these run through to DC rarely, occasionaly or frequently? I have never seen any other pictures of this occurence. Did any other NH power run through also? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:46:25 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] NH on the corridor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 958e83ff6b63e37963262a8fe828f3c4 I believe the PRR tested the EP-5s briefly and there were many fotos of them between NY and DC during the test. Other than that I don't believe they ever were in commercial service on the PRR. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > > As long as the NH has come up it reminded me about a picture I saw in one of > the publications of a NH Jet in Baltimore. Did these run through to DC > rarely, occasionaly or frequently? I have never seen any other pictures of > this occurence. Did any other NH power run through also? Thanks. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "velure" Subject: [PRR] NEC Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:01:33 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: acb2a5ee0f76d8b30c7b45f5ef8df4a1 here's a question that seems easily answered. the signals on the corridor are now the typical red, yellow, green of the B&O. very easy to understand. now here's the question. a signal shows green. does that mean a train is coming, or that the block is clear? the B&O/CSX system only shows a signal if a train is routed to that block, otherwise the signal is off. i am trying to figure my train watching in halethorpe. the B&O crosses the NEC and its fun to watch trains cross over head. -steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AndersonCL@nswccd.navy.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] NH on the corridor Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:21:16 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f57adbf2120b38814c8437262c62de63 ANDY - TO A DEGREE WHAT YOU STATE IS CORRECT... REMEMBER, HOWEVER, THAT ONE OR TWO "JETS" SERVED BOTH PENN CENTRAL AND CONRAIL UNTIL THE JUICE WAS TURNED OFF IN THE EARLY 1980'S. AS I RECALL, THE LAST REMAINING EP-5 DID A DAILY TURN OUT OF MORRISVILLE, PA TO THE JAMESBURG BRANCH. THE RENUMBERED UNITS I.D. ELUDES ME WITHOUT MY RECORDS. CHAS -----Original Message----- From: Andy Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 1:46 PM To: NDBPRR@aol.com Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] NH on the corridor I believe the PRR tested the EP-5s briefly and there were many fotos of them between NY and DC during the test. Other than that I don't believe they ever were in commercial service on the PRR. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > > As long as the NH has come up it reminded me about a picture I saw in one of > the publications of a NH Jet in Baltimore. Did these run through to DC > rarely, occasionaly or frequently? I have never seen any other pictures of > this occurence. Did any other NH power run through also? Thanks. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:59:35 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] NH on the corridor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8389f92bd1b68fd1a139ba47862ebba5 Ah - but that was PC or Conrail, not the PRR! All history stopped the day the locos went black :-(( Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== AndersonCL@nswccd.navy.mil wrote: > > ANDY - > > TO A DEGREE WHAT YOU STATE IS CORRECT... > > REMEMBER, HOWEVER, THAT ONE OR TWO "JETS" SERVED BOTH PENN CENTRAL AND > CONRAIL UNTIL THE JUICE WAS TURNED OFF IN THE EARLY 1980'S. AS I RECALL, > THE LAST REMAINING EP-5 DID A DAILY TURN OUT OF MORRISVILLE, PA TO THE > JAMESBURG BRANCH. THE RENUMBERED UNITS I.D. ELUDES ME WITHOUT MY RECORDS. > > CHAS > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 1:46 PM > To: NDBPRR@aol.com > Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] NH on the corridor > > I believe the PRR tested the EP-5s briefly and there were many fotos of > them between NY and DC during the test. Other than that I don't believe > they ever were in commercial service on the PRR. > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > =================================================== > > NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > > > > As long as the NH has come up it reminded me about a picture I saw in one > of > > the publications of a NH Jet in Baltimore. Did these run through to DC > > rarely, occasionaly or frequently? I have never seen any other pictures > of > > this occurence. Did any other NH power run through also? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR/PC Colors X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 177832cb4d9151001586015eb8a93feb    Andy, Its funny you bring the color conversation up. You Wrote, "Ah - but that was PC or Conrail, not the PRR! All history stopped the day the locos went black " Does anyone else remember reading in an issue of P C Railroader, that the official color for PC Locos was or was to be Brunswick Green? I am not sure of which I read. This I believe was a statement made by the author of that publication, Bob Reed? I think it was stated in the number 2 issue. Usually I have the mags at my fingertips but I can't seem to find t right now. Anyone else have those issues to double check me?....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] NH on the corridor Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:07:43 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7d93e4326709bc9246aa1ce3b7a04229 4976 was one of them. -----Original Message----- From: AndersonCL@nswccd.navy.mil To: asmiller@mitre.org ; NDBPRR@aol.com Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Monday, October 18, 1999 2:32 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] NH on the corridor >ANDY - > >TO A DEGREE WHAT YOU STATE IS CORRECT... > >REMEMBER, HOWEVER, THAT ONE OR TWO "JETS" SERVED BOTH PENN CENTRAL AND >CONRAIL UNTIL THE JUICE WAS TURNED OFF IN THE EARLY 1980'S. AS I RECALL, >THE LAST REMAINING EP-5 DID A DAILY TURN OUT OF MORRISVILLE, PA TO THE >JAMESBURG BRANCH. THE RENUMBERED UNITS I.D. ELUDES ME WITHOUT MY RECORDS. > >CHAS > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Andy Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] >Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 1:46 PM >To: NDBPRR@aol.com >Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] NH on the corridor > > >I believe the PRR tested the EP-5s briefly and there were many fotos of >them between NY and DC during the test. Other than that I don't believe >they ever were in commercial service on the PRR. > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org > >=================================================== > >NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: >> >> As long as the NH has come up it reminded me about a picture I saw in one >of >> the publications of a NH Jet in Baltimore. Did these run through to DC >> rarely, occasionaly or frequently? I have never seen any other pictures >of >> this occurence. Did any other NH power run through also? Thanks. >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > >-- > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:00:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e7a8f0ef0dcfed6863dec0948eecda4d velure scribit: > > here's a question that seems easily answered. the signals on the corridor > are now the typical red, yellow, green of the B&O. very easy to understand. > now here's the question. > > a signal shows green. does that mean a train is coming, or that the block > is clear? the B&O/CSX system only shows a signal if a train is routed to > that block, otherwise the signal is off. > > i am trying to figure my train watching in halethorpe. the B&O crosses the > NEC and its fun to watch trains cross over head. Steve, Signals Washington-NYC are lit continuously. I know of no exceptions, though there may be a couple. Basically, PRR lit signals continuously in electrified territory. Green simply means that the track ahead is clear. On AMTK, you don't get any additional help from the signal "turning on", fortunately or unfortunately. Hoping I don't lose you, I'll mention that a green _interlocking_ signal indicates a higher probability of a train coming soon than a green _automatic_ signal. You can tell the interlocking signals -- on B&O as well as on PRR -- by the lack of a number plate. This is because the interlocking signals are controlled, and normally remain at red until "brought up" (as it is said) for a train. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: RE: [PRR] NEC Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:02:15 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9e0ba537d0cdb25b29392a365303ae66 > ---------- > From: velure[SMTP:velure@surfnj.net] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 11:01 AM > To: talk prr > Subject: [PRR] NEC > > here's a question that seems easily answered. the signals on the corridor > are now the typical red, yellow, green of the B&O. very easy to > understand. > now here's the question. > The B&O and Colorized Amtrak are technically quite different but close enough for this discussion. > a signal shows green. does that mean a train is coming, or that the block > is clear? the B&O/CSX system only shows a signal if a train is routed to > that block, otherwise the signal is off. > First off, signals on the NEC are always lit (unless they've started changing things recently). So no information for the train watcher there. The meaning to the railfan (which is really a whole different discussion than what it means to the engineer) depends if it is a home signal or automatic. To simplify, a home signal is one that is protecting a bunch of crossovers. It would most likely have a full bottom target and no number plate. Automatic signals would be found between interlockings. A home signal would typically be red all the time except when the dispatcher has lined a route through the interlocking. Good chance a train is coming. The exception would be if the crossovers at an interlocking are seldom used. In this case, the dispatcher might fleet the home signal which essentially means the route is lined continously whether a train is approaching or not. So if a home signal seems like it's green all the time, that's why. If you see multiple green _home_ signals next to each other on the same signal bridge, chances are good they are fleeted. (Or else multiple trains are due) Automatic signals typically show green unless a train has just passed the signal. An approaching train would have no effect. On tracks where there are signals in both directions, the signals show green in only one direction. The reverse direction would show red. The direction gets set when the dispatcher lines a route from one interlocking to the next, and remains in that direction until it needs to be changed. If you happen to see automatics go from red to green or vice versa without a train around, then you know the direction just changed because the dispatcher lined a route on that track in the opposite direction. Good chance a train is coming. > i am trying to figure my train watching in halethorpe. the B&O crosses > the > NEC and its fun to watch trains cross over head. > > -steve > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:33:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] duplicates X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2e41c67e2647919954e3c23b44c694b5 Jerry: I am getting duplicate messages today for the first time. Thought you would want to know. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:28:49 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] NH on the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 116f8f1d72456487eb823e44ee511c09 Hi Guys... Keystone Vol.28 No. 2 in the Baltimore article shows one of the NH EP engines at Baltimore during the late 50's or early 60's. It does'nt give a date,but judging from the engines colors this is where i get my date guess. During PC days these engines were repainted to PC black...or DGLE or what ever PC used...LOL. The only way i know of finding out is to ask Chuck Blardone or Frank Wrable who wrote the article. Perhaps they know. Hmmm how about the PRR on NH. theres a picture of GG-1 4884 on the New Haven for clearance tests in a old Trains mag. i have. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:08:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PC Colors X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fe320e29a5b2c20934ffc9646cb3aecb In a message dated 10/18/99 1:39:17 PM Mountain Daylight Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: << Does anyone else remember reading in an issue of P C Railroader, that the official color for PC Locos was or was to be Brunswick Green? I am not sure of which I read. This I believe was a statement made by the author of that publication, Bob Reed? I think it was stated in the number 2 issue. Usually I have the mags at my fingertips but I can't seem to find t right now. Anyone else have those issues to double check me?....Gary >> I have always heard, and even seen reference to in a book somewhere that some of the first PC engines were painted with left over DGLE from the PRR. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:38:03 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] 1928 body Red Caboose X29s and the Tichy X29d X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d79bf859afc9ca3b3bbeb26894c6d5c0 Hello list, My latest X29s arrived, courtesy of Jerry, over the weekend. They are really nice! The ends appear to be really well done to this freight car neophyte. I only make a few minor changes. I use 2-56 screw on the coupler draft gear lids and on the trucks (I detest sheet metal screws; I always cross thread them!). The Accumate wheelsets are fine, but I like metal wheelsets, so I pop Kadee or LifeLike wheelsets into the Red Caboose trucks. Sometimes I change to Kadee trucks, but the Red Caboose trucks and replacement wheelsets roll almost as well; I can't really tell the difference. Unlike some other companies, I don't need to drill out the holes for the add on parts, with but one exception. I enlarge the air hose holes next to the coupler pockets with a #70 drill bit. As always, I do have a question. I'd read a year or so back that Tichy was going to come out with an X29d or similar car (rebodied X29). Has anyone seen such a creature or heard news about it? I love the Tichy kits I've built. My first craftsman kit was the Tichy (actually, it was so old, it was still the Gould Company) flatcar. I was so proud of it, I left it unpainted for several years until I finally decalled it for the PRR. Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Charles E. Whary" Subject: [PRR] Passenger Trucks Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:39:58 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b9178fb1022f402e78c05c17b9050f3a To ALL; I am looking for PRR passenger trucks, 6-wheel brass or Central Valley 6 wheel trucks, item # T-21. If anyone would have two pairs and willing to sell them, please let me know. Thanx. Charles E. Whary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger Trucks Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:09:21 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2700504eac5a7159190497fc7bc6a336 Charles, If you can't find the CV's we have a couple of different style of Precision Scale brass PRR 6 wheel trucks. They look great but they're expensive. If you are interested, please e-mail and I will check the style/price at the shop tomorrow. Thank you for your interest in One Railroad Avenue. Dennis Mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES (732) 271-0800 Voice http://www.onerrave.com (732) 271-0805 FAX 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 -----Original Message----- From: Charles E. Whary To: 'PRR-Talk' Date: Monday, October 18, 1999 8:46 PM Subject: [PRR] Passenger Trucks >To ALL; > >I am looking for PRR passenger trucks, 6-wheel brass or Central Valley 6 wheel trucks, >item # T-21. If anyone would have two pairs and willing to sell them, please let me know. >Thanx. > > >Charles E. Whary > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:23:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 1928 body Red Caboose X29s and the Tichy X29d X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4df7f2d3ddc6fe68a2be7d0452ba2e64 In a message dated 10/18/1999 8:39:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: > I'd read a year or so back that Tichy > was going to come out with an X29d or similar car (rebodied X29). Has > anyone seen such a creature or heard news about it? It isn't Tichy but C&BT Shops which is producing the X29b and X29d. most of the detail parts will be separate. After a long illness the owner is back to work and hopes to have test shots available in the near future. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:48:14 -0500 From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: [PRR] Current doings on "The Limited" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 484be02d59d8c7a8d5e2b08be7f5d9e5 Me again. :-}> I just want to take a moment to let everyone know what is happening on "The Limited". Right now, there is a break in the legal BS, so I have been pushing on new material. Quite a lot, mainly illustrations, have been uploaded and more are due presently. I am pushing to catch up with the backlog of illustrations so that there will be at least a few items for every road. It's also - Poll Time! Ay-yep, time for a new opinion poll. As we are (hopefully) on the verge of opening our doors, this one takes a look at your reaction to the specific details of our first offerings. Up til now, we have looked at engineering and theoretical stuff- this poll is about the here-and-now of specific products. Please note: this poll asks your potential interest in our first offerings, but it is NOT a binding commitment to purchase. This is simply to give us a feel for the possible immediate reaction. There is also an update on progress here (slow but steady- in the short form). Another bit of news is that "The Limited" has just started into its third year on the Internet. Golly, time flys when you're having fun. I hope everyone will drop by and take a look. My best to all, Bob Robert A. Boyd ======== Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" "The Limited" On Line - The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service http://www.thoseclassictrains.com history - technology - modeling - sources Classified Ads - Bubba's Web Resources - and Psycho too! ======== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:59:05 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Other Pullman Cars in Tuscan X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f592b118656645f6dff568c5e5b83083 The New Haven painted the heavyweight 8 Section - Drawing Room - 3 Compartment sleeper "Victoria Tower" in PRR postwar Tuscan Red with gold striping (one above and 2 below the windows), some time after its purchase from Pullman in 1948. Major lettering was the "NEW HAVEN" centered on the letterboard with smaller "PULLMAN" lettering at each letterboard end. By the time the car was retired in 1962 it had been repainted Pullman two-tone gray. A reference for this is NHRHTA Data Sheet 5.730. Steve Bartlett ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [pcl] Re: [PRR] L&N Pullman in Tuscan > From: "Andy Miller" > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:08:17 -0400 > > Don, > > AFAIK The NH never painted anything in PRR colors. The through Bost-DC > service NH equipment was always "American Flyer" streamlined stuff in > the then current NH colors. > > As far as I can tell the original Senator was all PRR "Congo" type > equipment; the original Colonial was all NH AF equipment; and the > Patriot was always whatever. > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > =================================================== > please let me kn ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vastano,Sam" Subject: [PRR] PRR 12V DC to 1.5V DC Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:18:19 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 39bee24e3e2a2288ce392ba9298f0831 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF1A23.A5DA7C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know this is a bit off subject but I am looking for a way to convert = 12V DC to 1.5V DC I am putting marker lights on a bowser M1 and I need = something to convert the power for these lamps?? Any Ideas? I am not = into the electronics area and I don't have a clue what I even need to = make them work. I have already been to the local radio shack , they are = clueless. Thanks Sam ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF1A23.A5DA7C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I know this is a bit off subject but = I am=20 looking for a way to convert 12V DC to 1.5V DC I am putting marker = lights on a=20 bowser M1 and I need something to convert the power for these lamps?? = Any=20 Ideas?  I am not into the electronics area and I don't have a clue = what I=20 even need to make them work. I have already been to the local radio = shack , they=20 are clueless.
 
 
 
 
Thanks
 
Sam
 
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF1A23.A5DA7C00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:56:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PC Colors X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8054a3ba19e9181b42aed8d2308ad222 In a message dated 10/18/99 8:14:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Stuthayer@aol.com writes: << I have always heard, and even seen reference to in a book somewhere that some of the first PC engines were painted with left over DGLE from the PRR. Stuart Thayer >> Stu, I can't substantiate that, but it sounds typical. We know that the first PC boxcars out of Beech Grove were still in Jade Green to use it up. Of course there's also color slide evidence (which could be argued) that some very late F-unit repaints by PRR were done in black. One example of this is a Tommy Smart dupe taken circa 1967 at Jeffersonville (IN) engine terminal. Another example is in slides shot (same era) of trains passing through Dayton Union Station. In both cases, the F-unit shown has spartan markings - just some stick-on red-and-white keystones and the large yellow unit number. Skipping the exceptions, though, it was very typical in the early PC era for the surviving DGLE on PRR units to contrast with the fresh or weathered black of NYC and PC-painted units. Specifically, I'd be REALLY reluctant to have PC units on my 1968 layout in anything but shiny Engine Black, on the grounds that my objective is to model the typical, not the exception. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:16:57 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PC Colors X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f98f9c13161e97218e7a769f658a8770 << In a message dated 10/18/99 8:14:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Stuthayer@aol.com writes: << I have always heard, and even seen reference to in a book somewhere that some of the first PC engines were painted with left over DGLE from the PRR. >> I apologize in advance for confusing the issue,but in 1974 while I lived in Philly it seemed to me some of the GG1s had a dark olive cast; looked more like Pullman Green than faded DGLE. Am I going nuts or were some so-painted? Some cabin cars on mail trains appeared to be the same color. Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 12V DC to 1.5V DC Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:15:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6cbdeb47a1275e8a3be8e96150e86298 Vastano,Sam scribit: > > I know this is a bit off subject but I am looking for a way to convert = > 12V DC to 1.5V DC I am putting marker lights on a bowser M1 and I need = > something to convert the power for these lamps?? Any Ideas? I am not = > into the electronics area and I don't have a clue what I even need to = > make them work. I have already been to the local radio shack , they are = > clueless. You said "Bowser M1", so this is NOT off topic. (Unless Jerry overrules me.) You have several choices. You _did_ say marker light_s_. So you could do this: (CHange font to Courier to make this come out right) left right re- left right rear rear is- front front lamp lamp tor lamp lamp *---(O)-----(O)----\/\/\/--(O)-----(O)---* | | v v +12 volts 0 volts or you could do each lamp individually. The value of the resistor depends on your lamps. You must have a specification sheet somewhere. On that sheet it will tell you the maximum amperage (current) they will handle. Plus you know they are 1.5 volt bulbs. So for the circuit above, there are 4 bulbs, each handling ("dropping", as they say) 1.5 volts, for a total of 6 volts of the 12 available. (If you want the bulbs to last longer, plan on using only 1.2 volts or 1 volt. Your choice. Just redo the math.) If the lamps together take care of 6 volts, your resistor needs to take care of the remaining 6. Remember that V = I R. We know V = 6 volts. I is the current, get that from the spec. sheet. Let's say it's 50 milliamps (50 mA). That means that R, the resistance value, needs to be V divided by I, or 6 volts divided by 50 milliamps, which is 120. The unit is called ohms. As it turns out, 120 ohm resistors exist. If we had come up with an answer of 110 ohms, that you can't get easily, you'd just go up to the next highest available resistor value, 120 ohms. If you got an answer of 134 ohms, you'd go up to 150 ohms, the next available value. One more calculation. The number of watts the resistor is handling for you is I times V, or 6 volts times 0.050 amps (50 milliamps), or 0.3 watts. Resistors come in sizes of 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and 1 watt (and larger, but not needed for model RRs). Since the wattage is 0.3, you should use a 1/2 watt resistor. One other question. Is that 12 volts constant? Are you getting power from the rails? If so, your marker lights will dim as the locomotive slows down. Or are you using DCC? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fad82867b83f3fccfb1c23716ae8cf7a Sam, I will try to explain to you what I do when it comes to putting lights in Locos. It is the cheap way to do things but it WORKS! It is also contant brightness ro a point. First of all go back to Radio Shack and get a Bridge Recitfier, Part no. 276-1152. It only cost $1.39? Take it home and take it out of the package. You will notice there are 4 metal wires that are coming out the bottom. Take the postitive and the negative and twist them together. snip them off with approximtly 1/4" left. Leave the other two alone for now. Solder the twisted ones together to get a good joint. That prepares this part for use in the lighting system. Next step is to place that in the motor wiring. Unsolder the positive lead from the motor and solder one of the remaining two metal wires from the rectifier part to the motor brush. Solder the wire that you removed from the motor to the other metal wire from the bridge recitfier. You may have to add extension wire to these leads to have more freedom on where this will fit in the boiler. This should all be sealed with heat shrinking tube or someother form of insulation. You don't want anything to touch on the wrong places or you will blow bulbs like crazy. Just ask me, I know. Once you have the recitifire mounted now all you have to do is solder one lead from the 1.5 volt Bulb to one of the metal wires on the recitifer and the other wire from the bulb to the other metal wire on the recitifier. Don't know how it works but there is enough electric to light the bubs. What I describe sounds very difficult to undersand but it is very easy to do. I do this for headlights. This will work for our Loco Marker lights as well. It gets more complicated if you want reversing and dimming lights headlights. I stay away from that myelf. This will also work for tender marker lights but you will have to have mini plugs to run the wires between the tender and loco. This will not work for Cabooses o passenger car markers. That is a whole different set up. With all the new electronics out there these days there may be something to take the place of what I use but you will probably pay plenty for it. It cost me about $3.00 to put an operating headlight in a brass loco. Hopefully if I stated a mistake in my proceudre someone will catch it. This was all decsribed in am issue of Model Railroader a half dozen years ago. Can't recall the issue. Sam, print this out and follow the directions and it should work for you. Let me know if you have any other questions and I will try to walk you through it......Whew!.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PC Colors Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:02:29 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 382479e05f7d87d2102675fceda386fc I too was fooled and I WORKED for the PC! I used to give out babyfood jars of Brunswick Green paint to the modellers who were not believers. I remember when the first PC GE units rolled out of Erie in March or April of 1968 (I remember the snow was still flying when they were delivered) they sure looked BLACK to me but while they were still new and given a little sun light, and putting your eyeball right next to the unit, you could see a HINT of green. But THAT's ALL IT WAS, a HINT. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: RickTipton@aol.com To: Stuthayer@aol.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PC Colors >In a message dated 10/18/99 8:14:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >Stuthayer@aol.com writes: > ><< I have always heard, and even seen reference to in a book somewhere that >some > of the first PC engines were painted with left over DGLE from the PRR. > > Stuart Thayer >> >Stu, >I can't substantiate that, but it sounds typical. We know that the first PC >boxcars out of Beech Grove were still in Jade Green to use it up. > >Of course there's also color slide evidence (which could be argued) that some >very late F-unit repaints by PRR were done in black. One example of this is >a Tommy Smart dupe taken circa 1967 at Jeffersonville (IN) engine terminal. >Another example is in slides shot (same era) of trains passing through Dayton >Union Station. > >In both cases, the F-unit shown has spartan markings - just some stick-on >red-and-white keystones and the large yellow unit number. > >Skipping the exceptions, though, it was very typical in the early PC era for >the surviving DGLE on PRR units to contrast with the fresh or weathered black >of NYC and PC-painted units. Specifically, I'd be REALLY reluctant to have >PC units on my 1968 layout in anything but shiny Engine Black, on the grounds >that my objective is to model the typical, not the exception. > >Til the next train out, > Rick Tipton - Louisville KY > Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) > Operating the Panhandle Route > And Remembering PRR Lines West > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: RE: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:00:54 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c833610583b13926a60aac671def2038 Gary's suggestion is very good, but has a small drawback. Here's what Gary proposed: (A) | |--->|---*---|<---| | + | [Rail]---------[Motor]----*---|~ Rectifier ~|----*--------[Rail] | | - | | | |---<|---*--->|---| | | | | | (A) | (Connect A to A) | | | | | | *--------[Bulb]------------* |--------[Bulb]------------| The rectifier has four wires labelled, + - ~ ~. The way this works is that the rectifier has four diodes in it. When A is connected to A, there are two diodes in the forward direction and two in the reverse. Diodes only conduct current in one direction. And when they do, they have a voltage drop of 0.7v. Therefore, two diode will have a voltage drop of 1.4v which is very close to what you want. So in the above circuit, the bulbs are placed around the rectifier and get 1.4v. The drawback is that out of the 12v from the rails, 1.4v just got taken up by the rectifier and only 10.6v is left for the motor. If it is OK with you not to have te full 12v available to the motor, then this is the way to go. The way around this is to add a resistor: [Rail]---*-----------------------[Motor]-------------*--------[Rail] | | | | | (A) | | | | | |--->|---*---|<---| | | | + | |---[Resistor]---*---|~ (Rectifier) ~|----* | | - | | | |---|<---*--->|---| | | | | | (A) | | | | | | | *--------[Bulb]------------* |--------[Bulb]------------| The resistor takes the place of where the motor used to be and has 10.6v. The motor is from rail to rail and gets the full 12v again. The value of the resistor is the tricky part. It's going to be a little less than (10.6/1.4) times the resistance of the bulbs. Without knowing the characteristics of your bulbs, I couldn't tell you exactly what it should be. But you can do it empirically, start with large valued resistors and try smaller ones until you're satisfied. You don't have to worry about burning out the bulbs. The diodes protect the bulbs because they drop .7 each no matter what. The resistor is really there to protect the diodes, because diodes will conduct as much current as you give them. I'd start with 1000 ohms and see what you get. John > ---------- > From: mittner@webtv.net[SMTP:mittner@webtv.net] > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 9:21 AM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt > > Sam, > > I will try to explain to you what I do when it comes to putting > lights in Locos. It is the cheap way to do things but it WORKS! It is > also contant brightness ro a point. First of all go back to Radio Shack > and get a Bridge Recitfier, Part no. 276-1152. It only cost $1.39? Take > it home and take it out of the package. You will notice there are 4 > metal wires that are coming out the bottom. Take the postitive and the > negative and twist them together. snip them off with approximtly 1/4" > left. Leave the other two alone for now. Solder the twisted ones > together to get a good joint. That prepares this part for use in the > lighting system. Next step is to place that in the motor wiring. > Unsolder the positive lead from the motor and solder one of the > remaining two metal wires from the rectifier part to the motor brush. > Solder the wire that you removed from the motor to the other metal wire > from the bridge recitfier. You may have to add extension wire to these > leads to have more freedom on where this will fit in the boiler. This > should all be sealed with heat shrinking tube or someother form of > insulation. You don't want anything to touch on the wrong places or you > will blow bulbs like crazy. Just ask me, I know. Once you have the > recitifire mounted now all you have to do is solder one lead from the > 1.5 volt Bulb to one of the metal wires on the recitifer and the other > wire from the bulb to the other metal wire on the recitifier. Don't know > how it works but there is enough electric to light the bubs. What I > describe sounds very difficult to undersand but it is very easy to do. I > do this for headlights. This will work for our Loco Marker lights as > well. It gets more complicated if you want reversing and dimming lights > headlights. I stay away from that myelf. This will also work for tender > marker lights but you will have to have mini plugs to run the wires > between the tender and loco. This will not work for Cabooses o passenger > car markers. That is a whole different set up. > With all the new electronics out there these days there may be > something to take the place of what I use but you will probably pay > plenty for it. It cost me about $3.00 to put an operating headlight in a > brass loco. Hopefully if I stated a mistake in my proceudre someone will > catch it. This was all decsribed in am issue of Model Railroader a half > dozen years ago. Can't recall the issue. > Sam, print this out and follow the directions and it should work > for you. Let me know if you have any other questions and I will try to > walk you through it......Whew!.....Gary > > > > > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vastano,Sam" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:40:25 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7e7ba6fc5a583783f436d2c2c7d00b0e Thank You, I can follow directions, I was totally blown away from Mark Bej That is way over my head. Thanks again Sam PS I don't have a layout So I guess I cant have DCC At least not yet. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 12:29 PM Subject: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt Sam, I will try to explain to you what I do when it comes to putting lights in Locos. It is the cheap way to do things but it WORKS! It is also contant brightness ro a point. First of all go back to Radio Shack and get a Bridge Recitfier, Part no. 276-1152. It only cost $1.39? Take it home and take it out of the package. You will notice there are 4 metal wires that are coming out the bottom. Take the postitive and the negative and twist them together. snip them off with approximtly 1/4" left. Leave the other two alone for now. Solder the twisted ones together to get a good joint. That prepares this part for use in the lighting system. Next step is to place that in the motor wiring. Unsolder the positive lead from the motor and solder one of the remaining two metal wires from the rectifier part to the motor brush. Solder the wire that you removed from the motor to the other metal wire from the bridge recitfier. You may have to add extension wire to these leads to have more freedom on where this will fit in the boiler. This should all be sealed with heat shrinking tube or someother form of insulation. You don't want anything to touch on the wrong places or you will blow bulbs like crazy. Just ask me, I know. Once you have the recitifire mounted now all you have to do is solder one lead from the 1.5 volt Bulb to one of the metal wires on the recitifer and the other wire from the bulb to the other metal wire on the recitifier. Don't know how it works but there is enough electric to light the bubs. What I describe sounds very difficult to undersand but it is very easy to do. I do this for headlights. This will work for our Loco Marker lights as well. It gets more complicated if you want reversing and dimming lights headlights. I stay away from that myelf. This will also work for tender marker lights but you will have to have mini plugs to run the wires between the tender and loco. This will not work for Cabooses o passenger car markers. That is a whole different set up. With all the new electronics out there these days there may be something to take the place of what I use but you will probably pay plenty for it. It cost me about $3.00 to put an operating headlight in a brass loco. Hopefully if I stated a mistake in my proceudre someone will catch it. This was all decsribed in am issue of Model Railroader a half dozen years ago. Can't recall the issue. Sam, print this out and follow the directions and it should work for you. Let me know if you have any other questions and I will try to walk you through it......Whew!.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vastano,Sam" Subject: Fw: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:32:13 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8617c50193398169d362f9b1352ad203 -----Original Message----- From: Vastano,Sam To: John Cooper Date: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt >I am totally lost What does this little drawing represent? > >I'm an accountant not an electrical engineer Could you explain in laymans >terminology? >What type of resistor do I need? > >Thanks > >Sam > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Cooper >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Date: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 2:11 PM >Subject: RE: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt > > >>Gary's suggestion is very good, but has a small drawback. Here's what Gary >>proposed: >> (A) >> | >> |--->|---*---|<---| >> | + | >>[Rail]---------[Motor]----*---|~ Rectifier ~|----*--------[Rail] >> | | - | | >> | |---<|---*--->|---| | >> | | | >> | (A) | (Connect A to A) >> | | >> | | >> | | >> *--------[Bulb]------------* >> |--------[Bulb]------------| >> >>The rectifier has four wires labelled, + - ~ ~. The way this works is that >>the rectifier has four diodes in it. When A is connected to A, there are >>two diodes in the forward direction and two in the reverse. Diodes only >>conduct current in one direction. And when they do, they have a voltage >>drop of 0.7v. Therefore, two diode will have a voltage drop of 1.4v which >>is very close to what you want. So in the above circuit, the bulbs are >>placed around the rectifier and get 1.4v. >> >>The drawback is that out of the 12v from the rails, 1.4v just got taken up >>by the rectifier and only 10.6v is left for the motor. If it is OK with >you >>not to have te full 12v available to the motor, then this is the way to go. >> >>The way around this is to add a resistor: >> >> >>[Rail]---*-----------------------[Motor]-------------*--------[Rail] >> | | >> | | >> | (A) | >> | | | >> | |--->|---*---|<---| | >> | | + | >> |---[Resistor]---*---|~ (Rectifier) ~|----* >> | | - | | >> | |---|<---*--->|---| | >> | | | >> | (A) | >> | | >> | | >> | | >> *--------[Bulb]------------* >> |--------[Bulb]------------| >> >>The resistor takes the place of where the motor used to be and has 10.6v. >>The >>motor is from rail to rail and gets the full 12v again. The value of the >>resistor is the tricky part. It's going to be a little less than >(10.6/1.4) >>times the resistance of the bulbs. Without knowing the characteristics of >>your bulbs, I couldn't tell you exactly what it should be. But you can do >>it empirically, start with large valued resistors and try smaller ones >until >>you're satisfied. You don't have to worry about burning out the bulbs. >The >>diodes protect the bulbs because they drop .7 each no matter what. The >>resistor is really there to protect the diodes, because diodes will conduct >>as much current as you give them. I'd start with 1000 ohms and see what >you >>get. >> >>John >> >>> ---------- >>> From: mittner@webtv.net[SMTP:mittner@webtv.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 9:21 AM >>> To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >>> Subject: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt >>> >>> Sam, >>> >>> I will try to explain to you what I do when it comes to putting >>> lights in Locos. It is the cheap way to do things but it WORKS! It is >>> also contant brightness ro a point. First of all go back to Radio Shack >>> and get a Bridge Recitfier, Part no. 276-1152. It only cost $1.39? Take >>> it home and take it out of the package. You will notice there are 4 >>> metal wires that are coming out the bottom. Take the postitive and the >>> negative and twist them together. snip them off with approximtly 1/4" >>> left. Leave the other two alone for now. Solder the twisted ones >>> together to get a good joint. That prepares this part for use in the >>> lighting system. Next step is to place that in the motor wiring. >>> Unsolder the positive lead from the motor and solder one of the >>> remaining two metal wires from the rectifier part to the motor brush. >>> Solder the wire that you removed from the motor to the other metal wire >>> from the bridge recitfier. You may have to add extension wire to these >>> leads to have more freedom on where this will fit in the boiler. This >>> should all be sealed with heat shrinking tube or someother form of >>> insulation. You don't want anything to touch on the wrong places or you >>> will blow bulbs like crazy. Just ask me, I know. Once you have the >>> recitifire mounted now all you have to do is solder one lead from the >>> 1.5 volt Bulb to one of the metal wires on the recitifer and the other >>> wire from the bulb to the other metal wire on the recitifier. Don't know >>> how it works but there is enough electric to light the bubs. What I >>> describe sounds very difficult to undersand but it is very easy to do. I >>> do this for headlights. This will work for our Loco Marker lights as >>> well. It gets more complicated if you want reversing and dimming lights >>> headlights. I stay away from that myelf. This will also work for tender >>> marker lights but you will have to have mini plugs to run the wires >>> between the tender and loco. This will not work for Cabooses o passenger >>> car markers. That is a whole different set up. >>> With all the new electronics out there these days there may be >>> something to take the place of what I use but you will probably pay >>> plenty for it. It cost me about $3.00 to put an operating headlight in a >>> brass loco. Hopefully if I stated a mistake in my proceudre someone will >>> catch it. This was all decsribed in am issue of Model Railroader a half >>> dozen years ago. Can't recall the issue. >>> Sam, print this out and follow the directions and it should work >>> for you. Let me know if you have any other questions and I will try to >>> walk you through it......Whew!.....Gary >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA >>> >>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >>> >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] RE: 12 volts to 1,5 volts...... X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 59540584f2086b2fb00d6cab8bb397c6 Sam, Now that you have an idea on how to go about doing what you want to do I am curious about something. Where are you going to get bulbs small enough to place in the marker light castings? I use GRS bulbs and they are tiny but I don't think tiny enough to fit in the 4 sided Markers let alone the single bullseye markers. Recently I have been doing something to my marker lights that really look great. Instead of using the red and amber marker jewels from Bowser, I use their clear ones. I glue them in place and then I use paint from the plastic car model section of the hobby shop. The paint is made by Testors and it is in their MODEL MASTER line. I use the paint used for automobile tail lights and stop lights. It is more translucent than Bowser jewels and once you place a small dab on the clear jewels it looks like they are turned on. Ofcourse only the red and amber is available. For green you have to settle on the Bowser green jewesls. These are somewhat brighter than the red ones they make. Thought I would share that little modeling tidbit.......Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: FW: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:57:39 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: adbc94d9bfa8bb771fc212f5342cfdeb > ---------- > From: John Cooper > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 1:49 PM > To: 'Vastano,Sam' > Subject: RE: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt > > First, you have to view it in a proportial font like courier. Change the > entire mail message to be courier font. This way all characters have the > same width and all the lines will line up vertically. > > So in layman's terms, each line represents a wire. So your standard > engine electrically looks like this: > > > [Rail]---------[Motor]---------[Rail] > > meaning that you have one wire from one wheel/rail to the motor and > another wire from the other wheel to the motor. Electricity follows the > lines and flows from one rail, through the motor, to the other rail. > Solder connections and mechanical issues are omitted from schematics like > this. > > The rectifier that Gary spoke of is a semiconductor chip. The chip is > housed in a small black plastic package and will have four wires coming > out. They come in various sizes, some the size of a raisin, others may be > as big as a quarter. They all work the same. Each of the wires is > labelled plus,minus,AC and AC using the symbols + - ~ ~. Radio Shack > packaging usually has a pretty good diagram on the back showing the > circuit that is inside the chip. I don't know what part Gary suggested > with his part number, but make sure you get one that is rated for at least > one Amp. All of the current that flows through the motor is also going to > pass through the rectifier. > > Inside the recifier chip are 4 diodes that are connected in the shape of a > square. The symbol for a diode is a solid triangle with a bar at one tip. > I used the >| to represent this in the drawing below. Here is a drawing > of what is inside the rectifier chip: > > External Wire + > | > > | > |--->|---|---|<---| > | | > External Wire ~ ----| |---- External wire ~ > | | > |---<|---|--->|---| > | > | > External Wire - > > In the drawing below, I put the + - ~ ~ labels inside the square near the > word "rectifier". Then I connected the external wires into the rest of > the circuit. > > So what you want to do is disconnect one end of one wire from the motor. > Connect this end to one of the ~ wires of the rectifier. Get a brand new > piece of wire and connect from the other ~ wire of the rectifier back to > where you disconnected from the motor. > > Next you need connect the + wire of the rectifier to the - wire of the > rectifier. If the wires coming out of the chip are long enough, you can > bend them together until they touch. Otherwise, you'll need another piece > of wire. > > Lastly, connect one wire of the bulb to one ~ wire of the rectifier and > the other wire of the bulb to the other ~ wire of the rectifier. This > completes the circuit. > > If you draw all the connections, your circuit looks like what I drew > below. > > Sounds like maybe you should do it exactly like Gary suggested and skip > the resistor. Then once you feel comfortable, you can try the resistor > circuit. Do you know how to solder? Any circuit really needs to be > soldered for reliability. > > > John > > > > ---------- > From: Vastano,Sam[SMTP:svastano@ccia.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 12:25 PM > To: John Cooper > Subject: Re: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt > > I am totally lost What does this little drawing represent? > > I'm an accountant not an electrical engineer Could you explain in laymans > terminology? > What type of resistor do I need? > > Thanks > > Sam > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Cooper > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Date: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 2:11 PM > Subject: RE: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt > > > >Gary's suggestion is very good, but has a small drawback. Here's what > Gary > >proposed: > > (A) > > | > > |--->|---*---|<---| > > | + | > >[Rail]---------[Motor]----*---|~ Rectifier ~|----*--------[Rail] > > | | - | | > > | |---<|---*--->|---| | > > | | | > > | (A) | (Connect A to > A) > > | | > > | | > > | | > > *--------[Bulb]------------* > > > >The rectifier has four wires labelled, + - ~ ~. The way this works is > that > >the rectifier has four diodes in it. When A is connected to A, there are > >two diodes in the forward direction and two in the reverse. Diodes only > >conduct current in one direction. And when they do, they have a voltage > >drop of 0.7v. Therefore, two diode will have a voltage drop of 1.4v > which > >is very close to what you want. So in the above circuit, the bulbs are > >placed around the rectifier and get 1.4v. > > > >The drawback is that out of the 12v from the rails, 1.4v just got taken > up > >by the rectifier and only 10.6v is left for the motor. If it is OK with > you > >not to have te full 12v available to the motor, then this is the way to > go. > > > >The way around this is to add a resistor: > > > > > >[Rail]---*-----------------------[Motor]-------------*--------[Rail] > > | | > > | | > > | (A) | > > | | | > > | |--->|---*---|<---| | > > | | + | > > |---[Resistor]---*---|~ (Rectifier) ~|----* > > | | - | | > > | |---|<---*--->|---| | > > | | | > > | (A) | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > *--------[Bulb]------------* > > |--------[Bulb]------------| > > > >The resistor takes the place of where the motor used to be and has 10.6v. > >The > >motor is from rail to rail and gets the full 12v again. The value of the > >resistor is the tricky part. It's going to be a little less than > (10.6/1.4) > >times the resistance of the bulbs. Without knowing the characteristics > of > >your bulbs, I couldn't tell you exactly what it should be. But you can > do > >it empirically, start with large valued resistors and try smaller ones > until > >you're satisfied. You don't have to worry about burning out the bulbs. > The > >diodes protect the bulbs because they drop .7 each no matter what. The > >resistor is really there to protect the diodes, because diodes will > conduct > >as much current as you give them. I'd start with 1000 ohms and see what > you > >get. > > > >John > > > >> ---------- > >> From: mittner@webtv.net[SMTP:mittner@webtv.net] > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 9:21 AM > >> To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > >> Subject: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt > >> > >> Sam, > >> > >> I will try to explain to you what I do when it comes to putting > >> lights in Locos. It is the cheap way to do things but it WORKS! It is > >> also contant brightness ro a point. First of all go back to Radio > Shack > >> and get a Bridge Recitfier, Part no. 276-1152. It only cost $1.39? Take > >> it home and take it out of the package. You will notice there are 4 > >> metal wires that are coming out the bottom. Take the postitive and the > >> negative and twist them together. snip them off with approximtly 1/4" > >> left. Leave the other two alone for now. Solder the twisted ones > >> together to get a good joint. That prepares this part for use in the > >> lighting system. Next step is to place that in the motor wiring. > >> Unsolder the positive lead from the motor and solder one of the > >> remaining two metal wires from the rectifier part to the motor brush. > >> Solder the wire that you removed from the motor to the other metal wire > >> from the bridge recitfier. You may have to add extension wire to these > >> leads to have more freedom on where this will fit in the boiler. This > >> should all be sealed with heat shrinking tube or someother form of > >> insulation. You don't want anything to touch on the wrong places or you > >> will blow bulbs like crazy. Just ask me, I know. Once you have the > >> recitifire mounted now all you have to do is solder one lead from the > >> 1.5 volt Bulb to one of the metal wires on the recitifer and the other > >> wire from the bulb to the other metal wire on the recitifier. Don't > know > >> how it works but there is enough electric to light the bubs. What I > >> describe sounds very difficult to undersand but it is very easy to do. > I > >> do this for headlights. This will work for our Loco Marker lights as > >> well. It gets more complicated if you want reversing and dimming > lights > >> headlights. I stay away from that myelf. This will also work for > tender > >> marker lights but you will have to have mini plugs to run the wires > >> between the tender and loco. This will not work for Cabooses o > passenger > >> car markers. That is a whole different set up. > >> With all the new electronics out there these days there may be > >> something to take the place of what I use but you will probably pay > >> plenty for it. It cost me about $3.00 to put an operating headlight in > a > >> brass loco. Hopefully if I stated a mistake in my proceudre someone > will > >> catch it. This was all decsribed in am issue of Model Railroader a half > >> dozen years ago. Can't recall the issue. > >> Sam, print this out and follow the directions and it should work > >> for you. Let me know if you have any other questions and I will try to > >> walk you through it......Whew!.....Gary > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > >> > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > >> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > "listmaster@dsop.com". > >> > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:32:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] Very Large Radius Curves X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5b8925376c0500453e3ebdf6fde2e101 Folks, Is anyone aware of an article in MR or RMC that deals with laying out very large radius cosmetic curves? Seems that somewhere I saw reference to it in relation to Don Cassler's B&O M&K Division, but I can't recall if the mention was an article or a "how-to" demo in the Keller tape on Don's layout. I have a good location for a curve in the neighborhood of 6 inchs arch in a length of about 8 feet but none of my conventional methods will serve me here. (Or is there anything in Armstrong's book on realistic operation on this?) Thanks folks, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:24:02 EDT Subject: [PRR] centipede X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3ed67ebf31b4c361448c0dfd809f2db6 Hello List - Does anyone have or know where I can find dimensional drawings or information on the axle arrangement of the centipede. The only information I have is that it had 42" wheels, sixteen wheel drive and was articulated. What I would like to know is axle spacing and truck pivot points. The pictures I've seen lead me to believe that the pilot swung with the front trucks. Any help I can get would be appreciated, as I have been asked to look into the feasibility of building an inexpensive drive. John - Trainstuff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:03:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 1928 body Red Caboose X29s and the Tichy X29d X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2e6f03611b07b67acc0790143d809e9a In a message dated 10/18/99 8:29:21 PM Mountain Daylight Time, SUVCWORR@aol.com writes: << After a long illness the owner is back to work and hopes to have test shots available in the near future. >> I saw test shots at the Kansas City National Train Show last year. They still need quite a bit of work at that time, but they definately looked promising. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:30:22 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Ancient History X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 93c5b3dee777cc8d46312a04566754fc Hello list, My grandfather recently sent me a bunch of old model railroad magazines from the collection of a deceased friend. We have come quite a long way! On page 853 of the November 1948 Model Railroader is an ad from John English. It shows a PRR H9s/H10s boiler, frame, and cylinder set. The modeller was to supply drivers, rods, and valve gear, along with a tender. I wonder if this later became part of the Penn Line company (and from there to Bowser)? In the same issue, on page 878, Penn Line advertised the T1; I had no idea that Bowser's original T1 boiler casting was nearing 50 years of age when it was finally retired (would that the PRR had gotten as much service out of the prototypes...). Finally, on page 810, there was a review of the S scale Midgauge K5 pacific, which used the American Flyer boiler casting with a scale chassis of their own manufacture. Now, we can have accurate plastic and zinc models with correct piping, and we have a vast body of research to support our efforts; prototype fidelity received very small consideration; it seemed to be a big deal to get something running. Now, I've got to get back to my E6s and I1sa.... Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bud Kaiser" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:55:45 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 181a9759c905801bc59d5f603474cb8d -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of John Cooper Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 4:58 PM To: 'prr-talk@dsop.com' Subject: FW: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt It may be of great help in understanding the various diode and bridge rectifier combinations to provide constant lighting by visiting the following site: http://www.mrollins.com/constant2.html There are some very nice pictorials used to describe various circuits. Hope this helps. Bud Kaiser > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:57:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Very Large Radius Curves X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: eae8af07eb58d664da0d05e440739eaa Mark, Lance, Chris & Lee, Thanks, guys for the tips. Mark, the formula you've laid out looks most promising. I haven't taken a math course in over 25 years and was trying to work backwards using a segment of the curve to get a slice of circumfernce and take it from there, but your idea is much better. It allows a person to actually lay it out on the benchwork. Now if I use Mark's formula with Lance's stripwood, tacked down to keep that spiral, I can pencil in the centerline and have the best of both worlds (I guess putting new screen on the porch has paid off with something of real value after all! ) I'm already having visions of a couple E units sailing around that curve with the Shenandoah heading for Union Station. Now if only it didn't have to sneak around 27' radius down in the staging area.... Thanks again, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:25:31 -0500 From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: [PRR] RF&P cars for points north? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ffb6a5aaf1c45d25c027ad46f0b7081e >The L&N was one of only two RRs that I know of which painted some of >their thru car to match the PRR. The other was the RF&P. Does anyone >know what service the RF&P cars were used in? Probably not Florida >service since the RF&P also had cars in the ACL and SEAB schemes for >those trains. > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org ===== Would these have perhaps been on joint PRR-NH-CV-CN service to Canada? Since the Florida Trade and the New Orleans runs both received cars from as far north as Montreal, wouldn't it seem reasonable that L&N and RF&P would provide forwarded cars from points south? L&N, in particular, had several trains that were feeders to cities all through the Deep South and the Trans Mississippi, often finally evaporating somewhere west of Atlanta. Just a thought, Bob Robert A. Boyd ======== Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" "The Limited" On Line - The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service http://www.thoseclassictrains.com history - technology - modeling - sources Classified Ads - Bubba's Web Resources - and Psycho too! ======== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:45:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "David L." Subject: RE: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt AND CONSTANT DIRECTIONAL X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2fc982944f8005f81f2dded4164b917c Ok, I haven't done any of this yet,but I can deliver two pieces of information. One, someone suggested sodering the positive and negative leads of a bridge rectifier's DC sides together. Sorry, this is only going to cause a short. If anyone who doesn't already understand bridge rectifiers would like some help, please email me off list. Two, there was a recent (last couple of years) article in Model Railroader of how John Allen operated his forward and reverse headlights with a single electrical connection between the tender and the locomotive. He used a diode triangle. One diode in one direction and two diodes in the other and the bulbs connected in parallel to the diodes. You see a diode, besides only allowing current to flow in one direction has a constant voltage drop accross it. He selected diodes that took two to give him a potential to light the bulb brightly. When current was reversed and flowed only through the single diode, only half the potential was available to the bulb and it was lit dimly. With a light on the loco and a light on the back of the tender he had it set up so the one in the direction of travel was brightest. If someone asks I'll try to find the issue. I am sure similiar principle could be used with marker lights. ===== V/R David C. Lind Disaster Preparedness Operations AT1 USN Specialist: NBC Warfare Survival Acts 17:11 Be a Berean, search the scriptures. Ephesians 6:19 A prayer for me. Model Railroaders: Proverbs 22:6,"Train your children!" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:59:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "David L." Subject: [PRR] Railroads connecting to PRR??????? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: de22a11fcfa89203b7b76a69423fe99f Having recently become fascinated with narrow gauge and loggingh railroads, probably mostly due to being stationed up in the Pacific North West, I have interest in doing a logging railroad based in PA with some kind of connection to a major Pennsylvania Rail Road to help place it, having a junction where cars are picked up and dropped off. So my questions.... 1) Does anyone know of any good prototypes to model or emulate. 2) Is there anyone who is willing to answer questions and give advice off list since the PRR will only be partially involved. 3) I am thinking of modeling a 30" gauge, so I need lots of help in modeling HOn2 1/2 because this is a whole new concept for me. Thanks, and if someone has any resources on the web or knows of a logging list or club I could get in touch with I would be grateful. ===== V/R David C. Lind Disaster Preparedness Operations AT1 USN Specialist: NBC Warfare Survival Acts 17:11 Be a Berean, search the scriptures. Ephesians 6:19 A prayer for me. Model Railroaders: Proverbs 22:6,"Train your children!" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 05:02:57 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] RE: Marker Light Colors X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9bc73ff5954c5bee4e89e01c46a191e7 I recently acquired a PRR rulebook of 1889. There are 3 rules bearing on marker light colors, and 3 other rules bearing on colored lights generally: 25. Red signifies _danger_, and is a signal to stop. 26. Green signifies _caution_, and is a signal to go slowly. 27. White signifies _safety_, and is a signal to go on. ... 33. Each train, while running, must display two green flags by day and two green lights by night, one on each side of the rear of the train, as markers, to indicate the rear of the train. Yard engines will not display markers. 34. Each train running after sunset, or when obscured by fog or other cause, must display the head light in front and two or more red lights in the rear. Yard engines must display two green lights instead of red, except when provided with a head light on both front and rear. ... 74. When a train turns out to meet or pass another train, the red lights must be removed and green displayed as soon as the track is clear, but the red must again be displayed before returning to its own track. Head-lights on engines when on side tracks or at the end of double track, waiting for trains, must be covered as soon as the track is clear and the train has stopped. End of quotations Rules 33 and 34 seem to conflict. Perhaps each was in force on different parts of the railroad? Or was it that each train displayed four or more lights? The two green ones required by rule 33 and the 2 or more red ones required by rule 34? But then, 33 says there will be no markers on switchers, rule 34 says there will be green markers on switchers. So, I'm back to "they seem to conflict". Aaaargh. Could anyone explain what the Directors, President, and General Superintendent had in mind in 1889? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vastano,Sam" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: 12 volts to 1,5 volts...... Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:48:50 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0389be8c3a63bcb310f6f49a4ae73233 As to your question about which marker lights I am using they are Utah Pacific Marker Lights Part # CM-64. It comes with a variety of jewel colors. It also mensions Tomar?? as a battery hookup, I think that is hokey, Why would you want a batter if you have voltage right at the wheels? I think I can do this if I look over all the posts and mabe a question or 2 after I get started. Thank you for all your help!!!!! Sam -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 4:18 PM Subject: [PRR] RE: 12 volts to 1,5 volts...... Sam, Now that you have an idea on how to go about doing what you want to do I am curious about something. Where are you going to get bulbs small enough to place in the marker light castings? I use GRS bulbs and they are tiny but I don't think tiny enough to fit in the 4 sided Markers let alone the single bullseye markers. Recently I have been doing something to my marker lights that really look great. Instead of using the red and amber marker jewels from Bowser, I use their clear ones. I glue them in place and then I use paint from the plastic car model section of the hobby shop. The paint is made by Testors and it is in their MODEL MASTER line. I use the paint used for automobile tail lights and stop lights. It is more translucent than Bowser jewels and once you place a small dab on the clear jewels it looks like they are turned on. Ofcourse only the red and amber is available. For green you have to settle on the Bowser green jewesls. These are somewhat brighter than the red ones they make. Thought I would share that little modeling tidbit.......Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:22:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] RF&P cars for points north? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 671e5bfb555d39ef282a9560936873c9 In a message dated 10/19/99 10:33:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rboydrrs@inlink.com writes: << Would these have perhaps been on joint PRR-NH-CV-CN service to Canada? Since the Florida Trade and the New Orleans runs both received cars from as far north as Montreal, wouldn't it seem reasonable that L&N and RF&P would provide forwarded cars from points south? L&N, in particular, had several trains that were feeders to cities all through the Deep South and the Trans Mississippi, often finally evaporating somewhere west of Atlanta. >> The L&N pool cars were run on the Southwind, which ran between Chicago and Florida. The other pool partner on this service with the PRR and L&N was the ACL. The L&N basically provided cars to the train, and power South of Lousiville to the connecting point with the ACL (don't remember where this was) during the steam era. During the diesel era, the L&N provided protection power for the train. This due to the fact that the PRR and ACL power was running all the way through. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:36:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] RE: RE: 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2a11d35969c644af33c2d308e4e83254 David, You wrote: "One, someone suggested sodering the positive and negative leads of a bridge rectifier's DC sides together. Sorry, this is only going to cause a short" One would think that way. Anyone knows that if you cross paths with - and +, a short will occur. For some reason it dosn't effect the working of this electrical setup. That same question was brought up in the article that I use for this lighting system. All I know is it works. The less I need to know, the better.......Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:11:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] RE: RE: 12 volt- FINALLY X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 49281cdc95b4374143c7f6963199789b List, I Found it! For those who have access to back issues of Model Railroader, checkout the July 1991 issue, page 96. This is the article I use for lighting locos. It covers a handful of of ways to hook up your lights. Sam, there is a good diagram on the headlight and class light set up. Do you have access to this issue?.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:17:07 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: [PRR] Bell location X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 970c07a03eabbaaa5186494aedf6a22f Does anyone know where the bell was located on PRR U30C's? Thanks, Larry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:33:11 -0500 From: "Dr. George Pierson" Subject: [PRR] NG connections to the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 38725a34ab783826367513f2d13ff3e7 Hi, all, Here's a partial list of n.g. connections to the PRR in Pennsylvania. I believe we may have touched on this some time ago and there may be something in the archives. Lancaster Oxford & Southern with the PRR at Oxford, PA Peach Bottom (later Ma & Pa) at York Newport & Shermans Valley at Newport, PA Tuscarora Valley at Port Royal Zartman Lumber at Van Dyk Vincent Lumber at Denholm East Broad Top at Mt. Union Diamond Valley at Barree Bells Gap at Bellwood (?) Altoona Juniata & Northern at Altoona Waynesburg & Washington at Washington (?) Pittsburgh & Western at Butler, Foxburg, and Kane Coudersport & Port Allegheny at Port Allegheny (?) Tionesta Valley at Sheffield There were a number of n.g. lines that connected with (or were controlled by) the PRR in the Bradford/Mt. Jewett, PA area, the little Colorado of the East. There is even supposed to be a new book by Paul Pietrak coming out soon on the Western NY & PA, which was asorbed by the PRR and had some n.g. lines in it. There were numerous logging and industrial n.g. lines that connected with the PRR on the lines between Harrisburg and Buffalo and Erie. Also the line from Selinsgrove to Lewistown and the secondary lines north of Tyrone had many such connections. While the PRR is not often thought of in connection with narrow gauge, between its connections and the W&W and the OR&W, the PRR was fairly involved with these slimgauge pikes. George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:52:44 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Constant lighting via bridge rectifier X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c398de7eddbaf0fd275aa3ff33ebd0b5 Hi All, It was written... > "One, someone suggested sodering the positive and negative leads of a > bridge rectifier's DC sides together. Sorry, this is only going to cause > a short" > > One would think that way. Anyone knows that if you cross paths > with - and +, a short will occur. For some reason it dosn't effect the > working of this electrical setup. That same question was brought up in > the article that I use for this lighting system. All I know is it works. > The less I need to know, the better.......Gary I use this bridge rectifier setup all the time, and it works just fine. The reason why shorting the "+" and "-" terminals is OK is because this setup uses the bridge rectifier in a manner totaly different from what it is usually intended to do. The labels are set up for the "typical" application (rectifying AC to DC), not what we crazy model railroader nuts use it for (constant lighting). Hence the labels are not very meaningful in our context, making it OK to short them w/o problems. - Claus (who likes to do constant lighting in N scale) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:05:06 -0400 From: Jason Jaquith Subject: [PRR] Teichmoeller Hopper Book X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: aedfe8bc7bcb10b387239b9796674e78 What is the status of this book? Has it been released? If so, where can I get it? Jason ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:37:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Teichmoeller Hopper Book From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 75cd3d4b16180409a4555a7e76158882 on 10/20/99 11:05 AM, Jason Jaquith at jaj165@psu.edu wrote: > What is the status of this book? Has it been released? If so, where can I > get it? It was due Oct. 1 but is obviously late. I am waiting on an update from the publisher. I am accepting advance reservations... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WLHoss@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:21:02 EDT Subject: [PRR] Lines West Cabooses X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c9737d551f9b18afa9868d0c3371696f Hi, Can someone point me to photos and drawings (books or on the web) of Lines West cabooses? Thanks, Bill Hoss ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: 12 volts to 1,5 volts...... Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:19:56 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4cd8ad98fc072b8825935c87c8040c72 Sam, I have used the Utah Pacific marker lights in several passenger cars and cabooses (cabeese?). I used a rechargeable NiCad battery circuit offered by Scale Shops. The track power is used to charge the NiCad battery which then provides constant, flicker free lighting. After the battery charges, the markers remain on even when the power is off. By the way, I have also used the battery charging circuit to power an LED flasher on a caboose. Once the battery is charged, the LED circuit will flash for days. When you turn the layout power off, the battery eventually discharges and the light goes out. The down side is the expense and the fact that soldering is required even for the "assembled" kit. The unit uses a voltage regulator which generates heat. I have had no problem using a plastic caboose. I do drill a hole in the floor to give the heat a way out. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt AND CONSTANT DIRECTIONALLIGHTING Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:25:14 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7c6e47ad4e6b42cc0dcd9719e2206294 Using the bridge rectifier for constant lighting has been available for years. Utah Pacific offers a constant lighting unit for locos. This is simply a bridge rectifier, with the (+) and (-) terminals shorted together and SEALED IN EPOXY so you can't see (and question) what they have done. Since the UP unit (and any you may build) is used IN SERIES with the motor, shorting the (+) and (-) terminals does NOT cause a short. It merely allows current to flow, in series, through the bridge rectifier. The voltage drop of the diodes in the bridge rectifier (about .7 volts X 2) gives the 1.4 volt drop needed for 1.5 volt bulbs. Hope this helps. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 -----Original Message----- From: David L. To: Bud Kaiser ; prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 1:38 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt AND CONSTANT DIRECTIONALLIGHTING >Ok, > >I haven't done any of this yet,but I can deliver two >pieces of information. > >One, someone suggested sodering the positive and >negative leads of a bridge rectifier's DC sides >together. Sorry, this is only going to cause a short. > If anyone who doesn't already understand bridge >rectifiers would like some help, please email me off >list. > >Two, there was a recent (last couple of years) article >in Model Railroader of how John Allen operated his >forward and reverse headlights with a single >electrical connection between the tender and the >locomotive. He used a diode triangle. One diode in >one direction and two diodes in the other and the >bulbs connected in parallel to the diodes. You see a >diode, besides only allowing current to flow in one >direction has a constant voltage drop accross it. He >selected diodes that took two to give him a potential >to light the bulb brightly. When current was reversed >and flowed only through the single diode, only half >the potential was available to the bulb and it was lit >dimly. With a light on the loco and a light on the >back of the tender he had it set up so the one in the >direction of travel was brightest. If someone asks >I'll try to find the issue. I am sure similiar >principle could be used with marker lights. > > > >===== >V/R David C. Lind Disaster Preparedness Operations > AT1 USN Specialist: NBC Warfare Survival > >Acts 17:11 Be a Berean, search the scriptures. >Ephesians 6:19 A prayer for me. > >Model Railroaders: Proverbs 22:6,"Train your children!" >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:29:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Will S-E Subject: Re: [PRR] Bell location (fwd) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3ba07a78f99c8787cf38829a9f82e3c7 Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net I asked one of my best buds this question and this is the answer I got from him: To the best of my knowledge the GE six axle units (U25C, U28C and U30C) the bell was just behind the fireman's side of the cab high at the front of the long hood. There is a chance it could have been under the front steps on the U30, but I don't think so. PRR EMD six axle units (SD35, SD40 and SD45) had their bells under the frame just behind the lead truck on the fireman's side. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:17:07 -0500 > From: Larry Reynolds > To: PRR-Talk LIST > Subject: [PRR] Bell location > > Does anyone know where the bell was located on PRR U30C's? > > Thanks, > > Larry > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:55:26 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Frequency of ORER From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 77fcb478c249dc191977adc2dce80ec8 How often was the ORER -- Official Railway Equipment Register -- published? If it varied in frequency over time, what about the 1950's? I'm looking to purchase one for my modeling era, Sept. 1954. I have options on a few currently ('54 and '55), but they are all dated for January. Was it only published once a year or is this just dumb luck? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:05:44 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Frequency of ORER X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f9a9c645895df322bc0d8c8201934e5f Jerry: ORER was published quarterly (and may still be). Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:19:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "David L." Subject: RE: [PRR] RE; 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt AND CONSTANT DIRECTIONAL X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1776e0bb0c35d64cbeb2601cfe8c603b Bob, Actually, you are correct, if the to AC (~) contacts are also soldered together. When set up that way it works just like you said. I must have missed that part in the explanation. Sorry! In fact, it is similiar to my second explanation of a diode Triangle. Have a great day! --- robert netzlof wrote: > > > --- "David L." wrote: > > > > > One, someone suggested sodering the positive and > > negative leads of a bridge rectifier's DC sides > > together. Sorry, this is only going to cause a > > short. > > > > No, it's going to convert the bridge into a device > which has a 1.4 volt drop across itself regardless > of > which way current flows between the two remaining > terminals. One could build such a device from four > diodes, but why bother when the quick and easy hack > to > a packaged bridge produces the same result? > > Of course, if one connected that device (whether > constructed from a bridge or from 4 discrete diodes > matters not) between the terminals of a 12 volt > supply, current would be limited only by the > internal > resistance of the supply. Hence the need for a > resistor to limit the current. > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob ===== V/R David C. Lind Disaster Preparedness Operations AT1 USN Specialist: NBC Warfare Survival Acts 17:11 Be a Berean, search the scriptures. Ephesians 6:19 A prayer for me. Model Railroaders: Proverbs 22:6,"Train your children!" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:16:00 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [pcl] Re: [PRR] L&N Pullman in Tuscan X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 32d1e72f889bbaa37ee69baa068101c7 Jacob, Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the stainless steel post-war cars. Originally painted Hunter green on the pier panel and eventually McGinnis orange. Dubin's "More Classic Train" refers to them all as "American Flyer" cars. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jacob Klerman wrote: > > Andy: Can you be more precise? WHat period are you referring to? > > Do you really mean American Flyer? (i.e. pre-war streamlined) or do you > mean stainless steel post-war too? > > The NH Consist Books seem to imply post-war cars (not AF cars) in the > post-war period. I could double check. > > Andy Miller wrote: > > > > Don, > > > > AFAIK The NH never painted anything in PRR colors. The through Bost-DC > > service NH equipment was always "American Flyer" streamlined stuff in > > the then current NH colors. > > > > As far as I can tell the original Senator was all PRR "Congo" type > > equipment; the original Colonial was all NH AF equipment; and the > > Patriot was always whatever. > > > > Regards, > > > > Andy Miller > > asmiller@mitre.org > > > > =================================================== > > > > "Donald B. Valentine" wrote: > > > > > > Andy, > > > What about New Haven cars for the Congressional and/or the Senator that you > > > were constructing back in 1968 or 1969 when you also did the Seaboard car with > > > the glass > > > roof? Regards, > > > Don ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:25:41 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: [PRR] Re> 12 Volt to 1.5 Volt AND CONSTANT DIRECTIONAL LIGHTING X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b16fe54265edcb2bfd2cf7163e705ef2 David, The idea of using a bridge rectifier is perfectly valid! I have several locos with constant lighting done just that way. By connecting the positive and negative leads together and wiring the remaining AC leads into the circuit you get a 2-diode drop across the rectifier in either direction. You place a 1.5v bulb across this and you have constant lighting in both directions. It perfect for steam engine where you never want the headlight off anyway. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== "David L." wrote: > > Ok, > > I haven't done any of this yet,but I can deliver two > pieces of information. > > One, someone suggested sodering the positive and > negative leads of a bridge rectifier's DC sides > together. Sorry, this is only going to cause a short. > If anyone who doesn't already understand bridge > rectifiers would like some help, please email me off > list. > > Two, there was a recent (last couple of years) article > in Model Railroader of how John Allen operated his > forward and reverse headlights with a single > electrical connection between the tender and the > locomotive. He used a diode triangle. One diode in > one direction and two diodes in the other and the > bulbs connected in parallel to the diodes. You see a > diode, besides only allowing current to flow in one > direction has a constant voltage drop accross it. He > selected diodes that took two to give him a potential > to light the bulb brightly. When current was reversed > and flowed only through the single diode, only half > the potential was available to the bulb and it was lit > dimly. With a light on the loco and a light on the > back of the tender he had it set up so the one in the > direction of travel was brightest. If someone asks > I'll try to find the issue. I am sure similiar > principle could be used with marker lights. > > ===== > V/R David C. Lind Disaster Preparedness Operations > AT1 USN Specialist: NBC Warfare Survival > > Acts 17:11 Be a Berean, search the scriptures. > Ephesians 6:19 A prayer for me. > > Model Railroaders: Proverbs 22:6,"Train your children!" > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:50:25 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] correction X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ebcae0721d8d51690f1ee6b3db245a21 Hello All... A few days ago we were talking about NH EP-5's on the PRR. I refered from memory to the Keystone... wrong ! I got the Vol. right...but wrong No. The EP-5 picture is from Vol 28 No. 1 Spring 1995 It shows on page 56 a northbound train with NH EP-5 No. 307 on the head end at Baltimore,Md. The picture is by Don Borneman from George Pitz's collection. Sorry for any confusion... Til Later H. Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Brensdale@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:21:33 EDT Subject: [PRR] Radio symbol decals X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d6db1897ef7e419a80b8360b4761e611 Could someone tell me were I can buy the PRR radio decal for the diesel after the antennas were removed. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:07:56 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] PRR radio equipped decals in HO scale X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9b35bf2f34c7b1d7f54093d3ef822005 Hello list, I found the complete address for Raritan Bay Hobbies. It's PO Box 4231, Metuchen, NJ, 08840, phone 732 494 2932. The PRR radio equipped decal set is RBH's set PRR-1. It includes 2 pair of the decals for $ 3.49/set, with $1.00 shipping per order. I've used their CNJ decals on a cabin car/caboose and on three CNJ diesels. They're pretty durable and respond well to Solvaset. I may be a bit biased in that I consider decalling locomotives and cars to be really fun, like icing on the cake. I've liked most brands of decals with the exception of Walthers decals; these require far too much care and shred under handling that wouldn't affect other brands. Hope this helps you complete your model in HO scale; I don't know if these decals can be had from other manufacturers in other scales; RBH makes only HO sets. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:11:39 -0500 From: John Sheets Subject: Re: [PRR] RF&P cars for points north? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 46bdb048446e1305998093cffe6341ff The Southwind ran with PRR/L&N/ACL and FEC power and pool cars as follows: PRR 90-93 Chicago to Louisville Ran every other day, replaced with PRR Kentuckian then finally local on non-operating days L&N 15-16 Louisville to Montgomery ACL 12-15,14-11 Montgomery to Jacksonville, Jacksonville to St. Petersburg, Jacksonville to Lakeland, Jacksonville to Sarasota FEC 5-6 Jacksonville to Miami Don Ball shows several photos with ACL E's operating on the PRR in addition to mnay different configs of cars, fluted SS and smooth side, mixed roads and colors. Lounge Sleeper (Chi to Miami) Sleepers (Chi on most routes) Diner (Chi to Miami, Jacksonville to Tampa) Coaches and Coach Lounge John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:18:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Track Chart - Wilkes-Barre Branch From: "Jerry @ PENNSYRR.COM" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 37bcfe852f443c77ca4efb6ea224094b A few weeks ago there was a thread about numerous branches in the Bellefonte, Wilkes-Barre, etc. areas. Mike Hauk had indicated that he had numerous charts from these areas and forwarded them to me for scanning and presentation on "Keystone Crossings". I got bogged down on the scanning of the 1954 Philadelphia Division ETT, which I posted a week or so ago, but I now have 1 of 3 of Mike's charts done. The other two will follow shortly. The first one is titled "Track Chart, Northern Region, Susquehanna District, Wilkes-Barre Branch", correct to Jan. 1, 1962. Includes Wilkes-Barre Branch, Glen Lyon Branch, Catawissa Branch, West Nanticoke Branch, and the Wilkes-Barre Connecting R.R. You can find it in the "Maps" section of "KC", under Regions, which follows maps from the Divisions. (Regions were used in later years.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "RICHARD NEIL CAMPBELL" Subject: [PRR] P70 Info Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:21:40 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f4aebdf1e51919d81fbe918a87e142fb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF1B38.B799ED20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am look for information about P70 KR rebuilt coachs. What I=20 need the most are good drawings of the sides and ends. These will be used in a scratch building attempt of the Pre- war Trail Blazer. Neil=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF1B38.B799ED20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am look for information about P70 KR rebuilt coachs. What I =
need the most are good drawings of the sides and ends.
These will be used in a scratch building attempt of the Pre- = war
Trail Blazer.
Neil
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF1B38.B799ED20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:08:11 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Bell location (fwd) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5b4b06654e062f23bcc224dde8a7e126 Thanks Will: I would have never guessed that location. Now that I know where to look, I can just about make the bell out in a picture in Pennsy Power II. Thanks again, Larry Will S-E wrote: > Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator > alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System > V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network > http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud > bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server > > Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net > > I asked one of my best buds this question and this is the answer I got > from him: > > To the best of my knowledge the GE six axle units (U25C, U28C and U30C) the > bell was just behind the fireman's side of the cab high at the front of the > long hood. There is a chance it could have been under the front steps on the > U30, but I don't think so. > > PRR EMD six axle units (SD35, SD40 and SD45) had their bells under the frame > just behind the lead truck on the fireman's side. > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:17:07 -0500 > > From: Larry Reynolds > > To: PRR-Talk LIST > > Subject: [PRR] Bell location > > > > Does anyone know where the bell was located on PRR U30C's? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Larry > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:20:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Teichmoeller Hopper Book X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 04c7d68db1fbe0381492f65ea7b16571 I prepaid for a copy and have not seen it yet. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jpk815@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:51:52 EDT Subject: [PRR] Steamlined K-4s X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 52f144fc5017bf3c2cd12542e720199d Can anyone give me an idea of when the second generation (1940) of streamlined K-4s' lost their shrouds or were scrapped? I know there were four of these beauties made, and I am particularly interested in info about #3678. BTW-IMHO this was the most beautiful streamlining application made by the PRR. J.P. Keese Alexandria, VA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Steamlined K-4s X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5cd1c5bc0595c2770a32200e29040d3f JP Keese, Check the archives on this PRR-Talk. I think most of what you are asking was talked about several months back. If I recall I believe one of the locos was scrapped in the early 50's with its shroud,(most of the shroud) still intact. And I believe the other three had the shroud removed as did 3768 of the 1936 streamlining shroud fame. Too late tonight to dig all that info out. Maybe tomorrow.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] RE: Streamlined K4s X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 65fd0d2b37f2a11808717b06eab13386 J.P. Keese I couldn' go to bed without giving you part of your answer. Below is a copy of the post I placed on here several months back. It gives you an idea of the dates.....Gary snip> " I am not positive of which book I read this in, maybe someone else recalls, but didn't one of the second batch of streamlined K4s remain at least partially shrouded at the time of scrapping. No. 5338 comes to mind? Once again I turn to my K4 photo collection to see if any questions can be answered. The following info is what I can come up with. K4s #1120, My latest photo of her in the full streamlining is dated 1945. Loco was scrapped in 1954. K4s #2665, Latest photo I have is circa 1945. Still fully streamlined. She was scrapped in 1955. K4s #3678, I have a photo of her in 1955 back to the normal postwar look. She was scrapped in 1957. K4s #5338. My latest photo of her is dated April of 1949. Still STREAMLINED at this date. However the nose cone has been removed. This K was scrapped in 1955. So this maybe the k4s I read about somewhere that survved till the end with the streamlined shroud, or at least most of it anyway. By the way I have several photos of K4s #3768 of 1936 Streamlined fame. One photo is dated 1945 and is quite intact, however she is missing all the shrouding around the running gear. Another photo taken in 1950 shows her back to the normal post war look. She was scrapped in late 1953. Those are just observations I noticed from photos. Dosn't mean anything that could be written in stone. The destreamlinlng of the locos fall betwwen the dates listed. Pics don't lie!... Gary" end snp> http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 01:08:56 EDT Subject: [PRR] Streamlined K4s X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2252375775f8401ed768f963d0018209 In a message dated 10/20/1999 11:27:00 PM Central Daylight Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: << K4s #2665, Latest photo I have is circa 1945. Still fully streamlined. She was scrapped in 1955 >> I can move it forward a little by photograph. Still streamlined arriving Chicago August 22, 1948. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:26:00 -0700 From: Roger Elliott Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Streamlined K4s X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7120efdf68e08dafe340e2c778567bad Hi Gary, I'm modelling in N-scale and trying to produce a copy of #3768 in shrouding. I have a couple of photocopies of plans (Steam Encyclopedia vol. 1) and an advert picture for an HO brass model. I would be very interested to see your photos so I can determine if I'm shaping my model right. Thanks, Roger Elliott ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 06:16:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Teichmoeller Hopper Book From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e944dbc443eacfed37b397822f13566f On 10/21/99 2:38 AM, Ron Dugas at (rond@efn.org) wrote: > I'd like to reserve a copy. What's the cost and where do I send the check? I'm sending this to the list, as I have gotten many similar requests over the past 24 hour... You can order through my eStore (http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com). You can either enter a credit card, or select the "Mail/Fax" option which will create the completed order on a web page. You then print the web page and mail it in with your check. Our address is on this page. When searching, enter "HISTA-0001" in the "Keyword" field. That is the part number of the book. We are offering it for $17.95. I have a query in to Highlands Station about a new ETA. It had been due Oct. 1. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kollar, Kris" Subject: [PRR] K4 questions Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:18:34 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 03f0e9792ea50ee7838342be712d9b34 Looking to begin work on a new project and I have some questions regarding the K4. Does anyone know what the diameter of the trailing truck wheels should be? Most photos of the K4 with the passenger pilot show there is a box like structure on the engineer's side running board. It sits adjecent to the front wall of the cab. There is some 'appliance' that sits inside of it. Does any one know what that is? Most pictures also show a bump in the fireman's side running board. There is some piece of hardware immediately behind the steam chest. The running board again goes up and over this appliance. Does anyone know what this is? Can anyone comment on the accuracy of the tender that Bachman included with its first version of their K4 released 7 - 8 years ago. What class does it most resemble? Would it be appropriate behind an early 50s K4? I noticed that there are only three front steps (those the crew would use to get into the cab). Pictures indicate there should be four steps. Would there be a single, large water hatch or single small hatch? Does it have other inaccuracies? I know there have been discussions on this topic numerous times but I never took note of all the details back then. My L1 is complete so I'm looking toward my next project. thanks, Kris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Berndt" Subject: Re: [PRR] centipede Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:16:46 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7133294b969800dabce3fbf8df9942cf An article entitled The Centipede Connection...All 660 Axles Worth is in Trains Magazine, May 1982. It's short on fine technical detail - it says nothing about axle spacing, pivot points, etc. It's a long article and may be of some value. Let me know if you need a copy via USPS. Craig Berndt -----Original Message----- From: DWa9975062@aol.com To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 6:35 PM Subject: [PRR] centipede Hello List - Does anyone have or know where I can find dimensional drawings or information on the axle arrangement of the centipede. The only information I have is that it had 42" wheels, sixteen wheel drive and was articulated. What I would like to know is axle spacing and truck pivot points. The pictures I've seen lead me to believe that the pilot swung with the front trucks. Any help I can get would be appreciated, as I have been asked to look into the feasibility of building an inexpensive drive. John - Trainstuff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: george.pierson@trnty.edu Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 02:48:36 -0500 Subject: [PRR] LO&S car at Strasburg X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 74b9422e588cd933ebee354140e86db6 Hi, all, > Interesting. There is a Lnacaster, Oxford & Southern wood-bodied > doodlebug, their unit #10, at Strasburg. I have a photo of > it in my collection. It is *standard* gauge. Was the > line later converted to standard from narrow gauge? Or did the > LO&S operate in both gauges? The car at Strasburg has quite a story to tell. Around 1902, the narrow gauge Lancaster, Oxford & Southern purchased a n.g. wooden combine car from the Chateaugay RR, a n.g. line in northern NY state that the D&H had converted to st.g. It ran this way on the LO&S until about 1914, when the LO&S had the car converted to a gas-mechanical car of their own design (which it remains to this day, albeit not with the original engine and chain drive). It had the rounded ends added at this time. The car ran this way until about 1919, when the LO&S quit. The car was sold to the Grasse River RR, interestingly also in up-state NY. This was a st.g. logging line and so the car was converted to st.g., which it has remained ever since. The car ran on the GR until the late 1950's, when the GR was abandoned. It returned to Strasburg, I believe through the efforts of George Hart, had a number of wanderings via lease, and eventually came back to the Strasburg for good. I was able to get a tour of the car this past spring. The guys at the S RR have done a beautiful job restoring the car and it is now used as a backup train, esp. when there are not enough passengers to justify running a steam-powered train. This is practical partly because during one of the car's leases (I believe to the Nat Park Service at Lowell, MA), a control stand was installed at the rear of the car. With no turning facilities at Lehman Place, the SRR really could not operate the car without this rear operator position. In the process of restoring the interior, a panel lettered "CRR" was found above one of the doors and is now preserved at the SRR offices. Like I said, an interesting story. Just picture this car parked in front of the Oxford, PA PRR station c.1918 on the dual gauge track the LO&S shared with the PRR at this point. George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Griffin Subject: [PRR] Renovo Div. Track Chart (40's or 50's) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:34:05 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 43f1677ff9c45d688ca2fc051d6bb4b7 Hi All, I'm slowly working towards negotiating right-of-way clearance for my PRR - Renovo Division. As the "Land Deal" continues, I'd like to begin track work design. One of the items that would really help, is a Track Chart for the Renovo Division from around the 40's or 50's. Does anybody have one they would like to share? I'm very serious about maintain the fidelity of my right-of-way to the prototype's. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. - John - John Griffin Senior IT Analyst Computer Support Services CAE Electronics Ltd. pho: 514.341.2000 x3332 fax: 514.340.5583 net: griffin@cae.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:53:42 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Followup to Re: [PRR] Renovo Div. Track Chart (40's or 50's) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 59556d2bb7caa7472187a5ab2b88f5f7 Greetings to John and the group, Did a search and found the URL http://trainsite.8m.com/ Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ >Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:40:52 -0400 >To: >From: Drew McGhee >Subject: Re: [PRR] Renovo Div. Track Chart (40's or 50's) >In-Reply-To: <1C89780C4179D3118C58009027719358900AB8@caemsx01.cae.ca> > >Greetings to John and the group, > >There is a a guy who sells paper stuff including track charts on the Internet. I had a major Netscape crash and lost all of my bookmarks a week or so ago so I don't have the URL anymore. (If anyone has it please post it.) He had Renovo Division track charts (originals and copies) for your era. Hope this was of some help. I myself am planning to model the Susquehanna Division from Lock Haven to Milton circa 1950 so let's keep in contact. > >Drew R. McGhee >Altoona, PA >drm6@psu.edu >http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ > >At 10:34 AM 10/21/1999 -0400, John Griffin wrote: >>Hi All, >> >> I'm slowly working towards negotiating right-of-way clearance for my >>PRR - Renovo Division. As the "Land Deal" continues, I'd like to begin track >>work design. One of the items that would really help, is a Track Chart for >>the Renovo Division from around the 40's or 50's. Does anybody have one they >>would like to share? I'm very serious about maintain the fidelity of my >>right-of-way to the prototype's. Any help would be greatly appreciated. >>Thanks. >> >>- John - >> >>John Griffin >>Senior IT Analyst >>Computer Support Services >>CAE Electronics Ltd. >>pho: 514.341.2000 x3332 >>fax: 514.340.5583 >>net: griffin@cae.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Railroads connecting to PRR??????? Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:22:10 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ce335e4cc2b51759d9bcbc83d2495ee0 The Potato Creek Railroad, a standard gage logging RR, interchanged with the PRR at Keating Summit. I don't believe they interchanged cars. I believe the logs were cut, then loaded out on cars left by the PRR. I believe the book is still available. Title is "The Goodyears; an Empire in the Hemlocks" by Thomas T. Taber. I believe it's in stock at English's Model RR. shop in Montoursville PA (basically the Bowser retail shop), and is also available from Thomas T. Taber who lives in Muncie PA. English's has several books in the old series on logging RR's in PA. Tom Taber also has an index to publications on railroading in PA, as I recall. I'm doing all this from memory, dangerous at my age. Hope it helps! Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Division WWII, including Potato Creek RR and mill at Keating Summit (which I do realize was gone in 1920 or so - poetic license, since it's my RR!) -----Original Message----- From: David L. To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 1:50 AM Subject: [PRR] Railroads connecting to PRR??????? >Having recently become fascinated with narrow gauge >and loggingh railroads, probably mostly due to being >stationed up in the Pacific North West, I have >interest in doing a logging railroad based in PA with >some kind of connection to a major Pennsylvania Rail >Road to help place it, having a junction where cars >are picked up and dropped off. So my questions.... > >1) Does anyone know of any good prototypes to model or >emulate. > >2) Is there anyone who is willing to answer questions >and give advice off list since the PRR will only be >partially involved. > >3) I am thinking of modeling a 30" gauge, so I need >lots of help in modeling HOn2 1/2 because this is a >whole new concept for me. > >Thanks, and if someone has any resources on the web or >knows of a logging list or club I could get in touch >with I would be grateful. > > > >===== >V/R David C. Lind Disaster Preparedness Operations > AT1 USN Specialist: NBC Warfare Survival > >Acts 17:11 Be a Berean, search the scriptures. >Ephesians 6:19 A prayer for me. > >Model Railroaders: Proverbs 22:6,"Train your children!" >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:40:52 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Renovo Div. Track Chart (40's or 50's) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 31525af11c18bd65ec6aec4d381a6074 Greetings to John and the group, There is a a guy who sells paper stuff including track charts on the Internet. I had a major Netscape crash and lost all of my bookmarks a week or so ago so I don't have the URL anymore. (If anyone has it please post it.) He had Renovo Division track charts (originals and copies) for your era. Hope this was of some help. I myself am planning to model the Susquehanna Division from Lock Haven to Milton circa 1950 so let's keep in contact. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 10:34 AM 10/21/1999 -0400, John Griffin wrote: >Hi All, > > I'm slowly working towards negotiating right-of-way clearance for my >PRR - Renovo Division. As the "Land Deal" continues, I'd like to begin track >work design. One of the items that would really help, is a Track Chart for >the Renovo Division from around the 40's or 50's. Does anybody have one they >would like to share? I'm very serious about maintain the fidelity of my >right-of-way to the prototype's. Any help would be greatly appreciated. >Thanks. > >- John - > >John Griffin >Senior IT Analyst >Computer Support Services >CAE Electronics Ltd. >pho: 514.341.2000 x3332 >fax: 514.340.5583 >net: griffin@cae.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:17:15 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 questions X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6f185f78656bd3b0da4fc0581f6a85db Kris, Fantastic work on the L1s! I can't wait for photos of the K4s project. The diameter of the trailing truck wheel is 50". By the 1940s and 50s (and possibly sooner), the wheels were solid; earlier timeframes seem to have used spoked wheels. On my Bowser K4s engines, so far, I've lived with the spoked wheel for my 1948-52 timeframe; it wouldn't be the end of the world to make a thin styrene disc to cover the spokes. The box just ahead of the engineer's side of the cab is, according to Rail Classic's website, the ATC reset box. I haven't the foggiest idea what it does other than it relates to train control equipment. The discontinuity in the fireman's side running board near the cylinders is because of the mechanical lubricator, an appliance added to K4s engines starting in the 1930s. All stoker fired K4s locomotives must have this to be accurate models! Some K4s engines that were hand fired also got mechanical lubricators (See Carleton's Pennsy Steam: A Second Look, page 96, for a shot of hand fired K4s 1497 with a 70P70 series tender, mechanical lubricator, and high cab cutaway (my own term to describe cab sheet metal removed). Most K4s engines with the high cab cutaway (as with the Bachmann and Bowser models) have stoker fired tenders, but a few hand fired engines seem to have this modification. Given the running board work you did on your L1s, adding the mechanical lubricator and running board out of styrene should be a cakewalk for you. I use Cary's 13-259 mechanical lubricator (comes as a package of two), building up a mounting pad from styrene. The Bachmann tender is an accurate 110P70, which can be run behind any hand fired K4s. A stoker fired tender, such as the 110P75 or the much more common 110P75a (remember, my modelling timeframe is 1948-52) has a higher firing deck, no visible slope sheet rivets, and more rows of vertical rivets (usually eight rows), and a longer coal space (22 vs 18 tons on the prototype). I have two of the recent Bachmann K4s engines; I raised the firing deck to 75" using .020 styrene. I elected to live with the short coal space and visible rivet lines (partially to keep the factory paint jobs, and partially because I had earlier converted a Bachmann tender to a 110P75 and the project was slow and frustrating and I still had to live with the factory rivet patterns). As far as a tender appropriate for the 1950s, right now, the closest model out of the box is Bowser's 130P75 (their "13000 gallon" tender). It has some (to me) minor inaccuracies in terms of the rivet counts and the coal space is slightly shorter (the Bowser model is closer to the tender as built in 1926 for the I1sa class). It is also sparse, detailwise; you'll need to add handrails, a cut lever, a water scoop, and marker lights of your choice. The old Bowser high side tender was used on some K4s engines, but mostly former Lines West engines that were retired by the late 1940s. I modelled the 7133 as she appeared about 1946 using a recent Bowser kit that had the old high sided tender; the rivet detail is coarse compared to what we're used to nowadays, but it beats scratchbuilding. The old high sided tender usually came with Kiesel trucks; this is dead wrong; I substituted Andrews trucks on my 7133. All stoker fired K4s engines had tenders with four steps (watch, someone will prove me wrong....). Anyway, as if you can't tell, this is my favorite piece of motive power; feel free to email me off list or on list. Doug Kisala "Kollar, Kris" wrote: > Looking to begin work on a new project and I have some questions regarding > the K4. > > Does anyone know what the diameter of the trailing truck wheels should be? > > Most photos of the K4 with the passenger pilot show there is a box like > structure on the engineer's side running board. It sits adjecent to the > front wall of the cab. There is some 'appliance' that sits inside of it. > Does any one know what that is? > > Most pictures also show a bump in the fireman's side running board. There > is some piece of hardware immediately behind the steam chest. The running > board again goes up and over this appliance. Does anyone know what this is? > > Can anyone comment on the accuracy of the tender that Bachman included with > its first version of their K4 released 7 - 8 years ago. What class does it > most resemble? Would it be appropriate behind an early 50s K4? I noticed > that there are only three front steps (those the crew would use to get into > the cab). Pictures indicate there should be four steps. Would there be a > single, large water hatch or single small hatch? Does it have other > inaccuracies? > > I know there have been discussions on this topic numerous times but I never > took note of all the details back then. My L1 is complete so I'm looking > toward my next project. > > thanks, > > Kris > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:27:02 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steamlined K-4s X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6f138537bd197da253d8ef18deb8a89d Hello list, K4s engines 1120 (streamlined 1940, sold for scrap 12/54), 2665 (streamlined 1940 and sold for scrap in 1955), 3678 (streamlined 1941 and sold for scrap in 1957), and 5338 (streamlined in 1941, sold for scrap in October 1955) had the more restrained shrouds. As far as when the engines lost their shrouds, I defer to Gary Mittner's fantastic photo collection. The 3678 had the longest career of the four; she ended her days towing commuters on the New York and Long Branch (and a future model of said engine figures prominently in my plans). Pennypacker and Staufer are the ones that wrote (in the Many Faces of the Pennsy K4) that the 5338 retained her shroud until scrapping. The book has fantastic pictures, but some portions of the text, including this one, need to be take with a grain of salt. Hope this helps! Dou Jpk815@aol.com wrote: > Can anyone give me an idea of when the second generation (1940) of > streamlined K-4s' lost their shrouds or were scrapped? I know there were > four of these beauties made, and I am particularly interested in info about > #3678. BTW-IMHO this was the most beautiful streamlining application made by > the PRR. > > J.P. Keese > Alexandria, VA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:43:35 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Accessing Bowser web site X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 817462a49fea8b4a95bad5ee081a06d5 Hello list, I may be going crazy here, but when I used my bookmark tonight to access Bowser's web site, it did something it's never done before; ask for a name and password. Has anyone else experienced this? Usually, I just click on my bookmark and the site pops right up... Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:23:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Accessing Bowser web site From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 76ae15f694c2aea2a0ffd3ba856bda17 On 10/21/99 8:43 PM, doug.kisala at (doug.kisala@mciworld.com) wrote: > I may be going crazy here, but when I used my bookmark tonight to access > Bowser's web site, it did something it's never done before; ask for a > name and password. > > Has anyone else experienced this? Usually, I just click on my bookmark > and the site pops right up... Probably just trying to keep out the "riff raff"! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:40:54 -0500 From: John Sheets Subject: [PRR] Re: K4 Questions X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 604b329cf821d5c40f61fc019cd40b4f the ATC Reset Box is for the Automatic Train Control, this is a system marketed by GRS, General Railway Signal that controls the trains brakes. If the train comes upon a restricting signal, approach or restricting, it signals the engineer to make a brake reduction, at least 18 pounds if I remember correctly. It would also restrict the top spped of the train, a not to exceed setting. If he does not respond in a certain time or the train passes a more restricting absolute signal, say stop, the system will take the brake control away and apply an appropriate air redction to stop the train. All of this happens with red, clear and yellow flashinglights (may have been hooked to the position light cab signals on PRR), a horn and bells. When the train passes a clear indication block, a single bell chimes and the lights show clear. It would be next to impossible to ignore the noise and lights. Obviously, this is used with cab signals. IF the system takes over the brakes, the Engineer cannot get them back, that is the reason for the RESET BOX, it is sealed with a metal or plastic seal, much like they use on electrical meters or frieght trailers or boxcars. The sell must be broken, equipment reset and box resealed These can be reset by the crew on the road. It used to be a trick for the crew to break the seal, change the settings and thereby defeat the system, they would then put the broken seal back on, claim it was that way before they got the train. In diesels, all of the boxes and controls are in the cab or short hood. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:40:38 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Accessing Bowser web site X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fff11cea50c752a24e69f8583efd6e05 Greetings to Doug and the group, I was able to get in OK at http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~bowser/EMRS%20pages/English%20Home.htm and the photo page is at http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~bowser/Photo%20Library/Main.htm Maybe they were working on the server when you had problems. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 07:43 PM 10/21/1999 -0500, doug.kisala wrote: >Hello list, > >I may be going crazy here, but when I used my bookmark tonight to access >Bowser's web site, it did something it's never done before; ask for a >name and password. > >Has anyone else experienced this? Usually, I just click on my bookmark >and the site pops right up... > >Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:28:11 -0500 (CDT) From: harperd@tamug.tamu.edu (Don Harper) Subject: Re: [PRR] Accessing Bowser web site X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ebfa163858639a546fe6bfb05d21ef61 Really odd. When I first tried this this morning, I got the password request. I just tried again and got right in. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:42:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Accessing Bowser web site From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fee19b07e9c713eca3299979309a7712 On 10/22/99 11:28 AM, Don Harper (harperd@tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: > Really odd. When I first tried this this morning, I got the password request. > I just tried again and got right in. > I e-mailed Lee English a few hours ago. Perhaps that resulted in the correction. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:41:03 -0500 From: Pat Egan Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 10/22/99-LO&S car at Strasburg X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b82a50394d1e0f925541433006464a10 Wasn't that LO&S car running on the Wolfeboro in the 1970s? I seem to recall riding on it back then someplace in New England. There aren't many cars like it. Pat Egan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "velure" Subject: [PRR] looking for a URL Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:05:25 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e3e1d7793c63dff3ef82806e4ee65eb4 earlier this year i came across a website for a model railroad. this website included a "history" of the line which included an faq on the stockholders, the president, and some incident that happened. it had me in tears. i have since moved and left the url on the machine at my former employers. does anyone know what i'm babbling about? -steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "velure" Subject: [PRR] that was quick Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:10:51 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e8f7ad23c31e77c24048518e2f7a7a81 thank you to all who were quick to respond. it was the lackawanna terminal's site http://people.csnet.net/stevekay/ -steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:27:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] that was quick From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4b5b5f23ef676f9523b21cc984547a33 On 10/22/99 12:10 PM, velure (velure@surfnj.net) wrote: > it was the lackawanna terminal's site > > http://people.csnet.net/stevekay/ Wow...excellent site! Too bad it's not PRR! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:54:02 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: Status of PRR Hopper Book? From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f43101efc3c1e68f8aa09177b2ab2ea3 I made a query to Highlands Station about the status of the new PRR Hopper book and this is their response: On 10/22/99 4:13 PM, xxx at (xxx@xxx.com) wrote: > We are making final revisions with the author at this time. We expect the > book to print and ship before the end of the year. The book had been due out October 1. Obviously there have been delays. Again, Merchandise Service is accepting advance reservations. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:35:39 +0000 From: "Roger P. Hensley" Subject: [PRR] Mother of all Lists X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ccec531ea41448e4cb76b6e178908bdf I thought that I'd kept the info, but I seem to have misplaced the website that had the 'Mother of all RR Lists' document stored. That was the one with a listing of many, many RR and ModelRR discussion lists put together in a single document. If you happen to know where it is, please let me know. Roger Roger Hensley 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://cid.railfan.net ====================================== == Central Indiana Division, Midwest Region, NMRA ============== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:26:37 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 10/22/99-LO&S car at Strasburg X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d776a7db502003cfde94a706cac98f9c Howdy All: I have a couple of prints form a trip to NH at some point in my life. I rode the Wolfeborough and specifically the number 10. I have a shot or two of it then, and as the Whistler - when it came back to Strasburg, before the LO&S scheem. Cos Pat Egan wrote: > Wasn't that LO&S car running on the Wolfeboro in the 1970s? I seem to > recall riding on it back then someplace in New England. There aren't many > cars like it. > Pat Egan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:20:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Mother of all Lists From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9613844172bf605c8b48e687788ebfbe On 10/22/99 12:35 PM, Roger P. Hensley at (rhensley@anderson.cioe.com) wrote: > I thought that I'd kept the info, but I seem to have misplaced the > website that had the 'Mother of all RR Lists' document stored. That > was the one with a listing of many, many RR and ModelRR discussion > lists put together in a single document. > > If you happen to know where it is, please let me know. Roger, all: Don't know how up-to-date it is, but there is a lists page on "Keystone Crossings". See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/lists.html Feel free to provide additions or corrections. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Mother of all Lists Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:31:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 76a609c5ed1140468cbeff9b99f03dd8 Jerry Britton scribit: > On 10/22/99 12:35 PM, Roger P. Hensley at (rhensley@anderson.cioe.com) > wrote: > > > I thought that I'd kept the info, but I seem to have misplaced the > > website that had the 'Mother of all RR Lists' document stored. That > > was the one with a listing of many, many RR and ModelRR discussion > > lists put together in a single document. > > > > If you happen to know where it is, please let me know. > > Roger, all: > > Don't know how up-to-date it is, but there is a lists page on "Keystone > Crossings". See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/lists.html Roger, do you mean Dan Dawdy's pages? Or Hypertext and Webville RR ? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:39:55 EDT Subject: [PRR] Mother of all Lists X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 57b33b3ef587c337e90e417d350c2e86 I sent this to R Hensley, but thought maybe I should repost it to the list as well: << In a message dated 10/22/1999 4:36:21 PM Central Daylight Time, rhensley@anderson.cioe.com writes: << If you happen to know where it is, please let me know >> Go to the Operations SIG URL: http://members.aol.com/Opsigmem/chatlist.html Bob Zoeller >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:54:17 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] Mother of all Lists X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 668cab9109270eeaf28470a52fa07710 I apologize it this one has been posted - http://www.railserve.com/Newsgroups/#Lists It's where I found PRR talk and several others. Cos ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:23:10 +0000 Subject: Re: [PRR] Mother of all Lists X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: eb5fef6465d58bcc2a1fc9636486014e > From: Mark Bej > Subject: Re: [PRR] Mother of all Lists > To: jerry@pennsyrr.com (Jerry Britton) > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:31:57 -0400 (EDT) > Cc: rhensley@anderson.cioe.com, prr-talk@dsop.com > Roger, > > do you mean Dan Dawdy's pages? > > Or Hypertext and Webville RR ? > > -- > Mark No, I was at both and didn't see what I was looking for. :-( Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://cid.railfan.net/ ============================== == Central Indiana Division, Midwest Region, NMRA ======= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: endeimling@mindspring.com Subject: [PRR] T-1 Long Nose Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 09:11:52 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f6b319d57f1cbdbe3e2ad03906a6a56a I was just looking a the Sunset website and saw that they have announced a PRR T-1 in several versions ( O Scale). I was wondering the history behind the "long nose" versus the the standard nose. I didn't realize that there was such a difference. Can someone refer me to a book or article on the subject? Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 Long Nose X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8824b329c1e682e576315e258720b21b Gene, Just a quick note. The two T1 prototypes had a sharper nose which made it look longer. I see Sunset is modeling all three versions. First time I believe this Sharp nosed version will be available. Custom Brass made an O scale T1 but it was of the production run with a blunt nose. I am in a hurry right now so I can't point you to any pics. Check out Pennsy Power 1 and or 2. I am sure they are pictured there....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:09:34 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Accessing Bowser web site X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 84e6cea298783baad20b4232d173b9a3 Hello Drew and the list, I was able to successfully access Bowser's site today at 1505 (CST) on Saturday, 23 October. Thanks for all of your suggestions; I think that they might have been working on the page when I was having trouble.... Doug Drew McGhee wrote: > Greetings to Doug and the group, > > I was able to get in OK at > > http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~bowser/EMRS%20pages/English%20Home.htm > > and the photo page is at > > http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~bowser/Photo%20Library/Main.htm > > Maybe they were working on the server when you had problems. > > Drew R. McGhee > Altoona, PA > drm6@psu.edu > http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ > > At 07:43 PM 10/21/1999 -0500, doug.kisala wrote: > >Hello list, > > > >I may be going crazy here, but when I used my bookmark tonight to access > >Bowser's web site, it did something it's never done before; ask for a > >name and password. > > > >Has anyone else experienced this? Usually, I just click on my bookmark > >and the site pops right up... > > > >Doug > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 19:44:13 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Acquiring copy of Descriptive List of Locomotives and X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e44cc25bc83caedc20137c2b5e07fc7b Hello list, Does anyone know how I can acquire a copy of Owen Davies' Descriptive List of Locomotives and Tenders? I tried to borrow a copy through interlibrary loan, but I was told that the two libraries that had it would not release it; it was in their special collections. I would really like to have more information on PRR's older steam classes; the MP109K lacks information on the extinct (by 1952) K2s, K2sa, K3s, E3sd, and E5s. Do any of you have suggestions? Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:39:28 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] LO&S car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9f4ec02ca5177c35a5bb13666e75b445 I scanned the other slides of #10. I visited the Wolfeborough in 1975 - fresh out of high school with my brand new Canon TLb and my first car. The photos are some of my earliest, so please excuse the exposure and settings and telephone poles and other stuff. The Whistler the used for the stockholders tour of the line in 1985 The LO&S is the current scheme. I have some interior views too - someplace. Sorry I don't have them built into a web page yet - they are at http://www.wsbcos.com/wrr10a.jpg http://www.wsbcos.com/wrr10b.jpg http://www.wsbcos.com/srr10a.jpg http://www.wsbcos.com/los10.jpg Cos ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:08:53 -0400 Subject: [PRR] MP-54 traffic From: "Richards" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: efea287153df9571a4a0db2cab439c43 Hello. I'm new to this list and am hoping I can tap the reservoir of Pennsy knowledge out there. For some time I've been wondering how far the MP-54 traffic extended around Philadelphia. Were MP-54s used as far south as Wilmington? Did they ever make it to Baltimore? Most of the photos I have seen show them in the New York and Philadelphia districts. I am just beginning to build a layout with MP-54 communter traffic and would like to have an idea exactly how far that traffic extended. Just how far south did the traffic extend? Are there any good reference books on this subject? Thanks so much, Tom Richards Modeling the Pennsy under wire ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:29:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "David L." Subject: Modeling the....Re: [PRR] LO&S car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 05b66cb6bd96a6e5fba2247035cfbd92 Hey, a project like this would be a total first for me... does anyone have any suggestions on building/ modeling this machine and does anyone know where there are some scale drawings and or have measurements??? Regards, David --- "Wayne S. Betty" wrote: > I scanned the other slides of #10. > I visited the Wolfeborough in 1975 - fresh out of > high school with my > brand new Canon TLb and my first car. The photos > are some of my > earliest, so please excuse the exposure and settings > and telephone poles > and other stuff. > The Whistler the used for the stockholders tour of > the line in 1985 > The LO&S is the current scheme. > I have some interior views too - someplace. > > > Sorry I don't have them built into a web page yet - > they are at > http://www.wsbcos.com/wrr10a.jpg > http://www.wsbcos.com/wrr10b.jpg > http://www.wsbcos.com/srr10a.jpg > http://www.wsbcos.com/los10.jpg > > Cos > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the > message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > "listmaster@dsop.com". > ===== V/R David C. Lind Disaster Preparedness Operations AT1 USN Specialist: NBC Warfare Survival Acts 17:11 Be a Berean, search the scriptures. Ephesians 6:19 A prayer for me. Model Railroaders: Proverbs 22:6,"Train your children!" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rail Classics" Subject: [PRR] K-4 and P-5 Updates Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:20:38 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 65ea77b25aca87857bd580747512f0e2 Hello All; We at Rail Classics have posted new info on our K-4s and P-5 Projects www.railclassics.com In addition, 2 weeks ago we changed our E-Mail address To railclassics@psn.net make your changes. EDDY at RAIL CLASSICS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] MP-54 traffic From: "Michael E. Allen" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:03:00 EDT X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d5f1be026b5bd9b8f8a42c0bce52e58a Tom, et alia; As a general rule if there was wire and passenger service there were MP-54s there. The only electrified lines that I can think of that had passenger service but did not have it provided at some point by MP-54s were the lines from Port Road from Aberdeen, MD to Harrisburg and from Monmouth Junction [Midway] to Jamesburg [JG]. I know there were some deadhead moves of the cars between Midway and JG and some emergency detours but the service on the line was provided by the Gas-Electric car that ran to Long Branch. I have never seen references to their use Aberdeen- Harrisburg so I might be wrong there. Other than that the things were everywhere. There were third rail versions for Manhattan Transfer to Penn Station before the wire went up, They were on the Long Island [also third rail] with variants that the PRR did not have. The West Jersey and Seashore had about 17 even though they weren't called MP-54s. One was even painted blue and used as an employee shuttle at Washington Union Station. Piedmont and Northern had an MPB-54 they rebuilt and used as a passenger/express motor towing former PRR and LI P-54s. A while back somebody else posted a schedule for a P-54 turn from Washington all the way to New York. It was really a shop move for the cars used between Washington and Baltimore but the PRR would happily take a customers money to ride part of it. One other exception comes to mind - the Hudson and Manhattan did not use P-54s as the tunnels were designed for P-41s as were also being used on the Long Island and the IRT. For a reference I would start with William Middleton's "WHEN STEAM RAILROADS ELECTRIFIED" with particular attention to the segments on the PRR, WJ&S, LIRR, and the H&M. MEA ________________________________________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY Telephone 609-683-0356 Management Services Telecopier 609-683-0192 Michael E. Allen meallen@juno.com W.R Allen Associates wrallenassoc@earthlink.net On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:08:53 -0400 "Richards" writes: >Hello. I'm new to this list and am hoping I can tap the reservoir of Pennsy knowledge out there. For some time I've been wondering how far the MP-54 traffic extended around Philadelphia. Were MP-54s used as far south as Wilmington? Did they ever make it to Baltimore? Most of the photos I have seen show them in the New York and Philadelphia districts. I am just beginning to build a layout with MP-54 communter traffic and would like to have an idea exactly how far that traffic extended. Just how far south did the traffic extend? Are there any good reference books on this subject? > >Thanks so much, > >Tom Richards >Modeling the Pennsy under wire > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:58:59 -0700 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] Mother of all Lists X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5be82f593e1387bbd321459a1a9acc2f Hi Roger, All, I knew I had this candidate somewhere and just found it: http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Choir/6820/index.html Hope it helps, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] looking for a URL Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:24:55 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7204a2ef89ff809ba0b61ca4609fc596 On 22 Oct, "velure" wrote: > earlier this year i came across a website for a model railroad. this > website included a "history" of the line which included an faq on the > stockholders, the president, and some incident that happened. it had me in > tears. i have since moved and left the url on the machine at my former > employers. > > does anyone know what i'm babbling about? Is this the one? http://members.tripod.com/~mmornard/BTRindex.html Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] PRR X-42 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:22:00 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5e92710fcf3d0662e165e1f9a1e0f102 I am new to this PRR talk site. If I committ a faux-pas, please excuse me and tell me what I did wrong so I don't repeat it. Thanks I am preparing scale drawings of the PRR X-42 60' baggage mail storage car. I have orig. PRR dwgs for the ends and elevations and poor photos of the trucks. The car is published in many PRR books, but never with good photos of the trucks or roof. Does anyone have good photos, prints or drawings of the trucks and/or roof? Can anyone direct me to someone who has these things? Thanks for your time and trouble! Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Shelb68man@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:42:44 EDT Subject: [PRR] MP-54 Traffic X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9e577b4a40465d49ef2ab9ef6aed07c5 HI Tom, Since I live in Wilm. DE I can tell you that the pennsy did run it's commuter traffic here. Just south of the city is the commuter yard where the MP-54's would lay up. As a young boy I remember seeing them stacked up here. You can still see the yard from I-95 today. Not much has changed except maintenance cars are now stored here for Amtrak - mostly orange gondolas. New training facility building is now at the north side of the yard .You can still see at the south end of the yard the structure Pennsy used to tie off the wires -(nice modeling detail). I'm not sure if the MP-54s continued farther south - possibly to Newark, DE. Maybe someone else on the list knows. Charlie C. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:21:34 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR X-42 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8569e548cba7fce68f65ec7df49d85cd Lew, The scale drawings you may be looking for were just published with a short article in Railroad Model Craftsman. I see no reason to duplicate the effort. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:37:31 -0400 From: John Ryan Subject: Re: [PRR] MP-54 traffic X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 38fe9a8436ad159a24a4edce00c3ca3a I used to ride them to Marcus Hook and Claymont. I know they used to go all the way to Wilmington, and I think that 1 or 2 may have gone to Newark, Del. At one time there was talk of stopping at Marcus Hook because of a lack of Delaware funding. Gotham Rails has some coverage of operations out of NY. John Ryan Richards wrote: > > Hello. I'm new to this list and am hoping I can tap the reservoir of Pennsy > knowledge out there. For some time I've been wondering how far the MP-54 > traffic extended around Philadelphia. Were MP-54s used as far south as > Wilmington? Did they ever make it to Baltimore? Most of the photos I have > seen show them in the New York and Philadelphia districts. I am just > beginning to build a layout with MP-54 communter traffic and would like to > have an idea exactly how far that traffic extended. Just how far south did > the traffic extend? Are there any good reference books on this subject? > > Thanks so much, > > Tom Richards > Modeling the Pennsy under wire ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:34:22 +0000 Subject: Re: [PRR] Mother of all Lists X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0ebf5c9ce9d4a0321e897005d3eeea2d > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:58:59 -0700 > From: Ron Dugas > Reply-to: rond@efn.org > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Mother of all Lists > Hi Roger, All, > > I knew I had this candidate somewhere and just found it: > > http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Choir/6820/index.html > > Hope it helps, > > Ron. It wasn't the list that I was looking for, but they have done a tremendous job putting their list of names and sites together. :-) Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://cid.railfan.net/ ============================== == Central Indiana Division, Midwest Region, NMRA ======= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:12:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] MP-54 traffic X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8d37c3ea957d574bdcd4e22ddab08434 Later timetables (PC, 1970) still show a single local Suburban Station to Newark, Del, and two rush hour trains each way Baltimore to Washington; these might have been MP-54s still, or earlier, anybody know? Also, I can't lay my hands on a timetable right now but I think the gas-electric service that has been mentioned operated, at least in later years, from Trenton (via Monmouth Jct, Jamesburg, Freehold, Sea Girt) though Long Branch and tied up in Red Bank. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:08:20 -0400 From: John Ryan Subject: Re: [PRR] MP-54 traffic X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cb939b1e3626cd167f4732dfadf25216 I rode to Marcus Hook through 1975. Rush hour trains on the Wilmington line were MP-54's. Off-peak trains were mainly Silverliners. The morning train from Newark was one I rode often. It was still MP-54's in early 1976. John Ryan bobsin@nac.net wrote: > > Later timetables (PC, 1970) still show a single local Suburban > Station to Newark, Del, and two rush hour trains each way > Baltimore to Washington; these might have been MP-54s still, or > earlier, anybody know? > > Also, I can't lay my hands on a timetable right now but I think the > gas-electric service that has been mentioned operated, at least in > later years, from Trenton (via Monmouth Jct, Jamesburg, Freehold, > Sea Girt) though Long Branch and tied up in Red Bank. > > John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] MP-54 traffic Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:02:57 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 60ce0f6d9474fd133cca290df2961ec1 MP 54s were regular visitors to Washington under what is now the MARC service. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: John Ryan To: PRR-Talk Date: Sunday, October 24, 1999 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] MP-54 traffic >I used to ride them to Marcus Hook and Claymont. I know they used to go >all the way to Wilmington, and I think that 1 or 2 may have gone to >Newark, Del. At one time there was talk of stopping at Marcus Hook >because of a lack of Delaware funding. > >Gotham Rails has some coverage of operations out of NY. > >John Ryan > >Richards wrote: >> >> Hello. I'm new to this list and am hoping I can tap the reservoir of Pennsy >> knowledge out there. For some time I've been wondering how far the MP-54 >> traffic extended around Philadelphia. Were MP-54s used as far south as >> Wilmington? Did they ever make it to Baltimore? Most of the photos I have >> seen show them in the New York and Philadelphia districts. I am just >> beginning to build a layout with MP-54 communter traffic and would like to >> have an idea exactly how far that traffic extended. Just how far south did >> the traffic extend? Are there any good reference books on this subject? >> >> Thanks so much, >> >> Tom Richards >> Modeling the Pennsy under wire > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:27:46 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] S. H. Church Lines West History X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c3237a416aeba18b7ce3c783dda5b060 A couple of months ago, Dan Cupper mentioned Church's history of the Lines West. A bit later Richard Wallis added some comments regarding libraries which have copies of that work. In that, he said that Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP) has the first 12 volumes and the index. He also said the "...someplace near Pittsburgh has all 15 volumes and the index..." I have just returned from the Stapleton Library at IUP. They appear to be the "place near Pittsburgh", as they have all 15 volumes (and the index) in their Special Collections room. The good news is that any resident of Pennsylvania can go there and consult the books. The bad news is that you can do that only between 9:00 am and 4:30 pm, Monday through Friday. "Go there" is also a bit of bad news, as parking appears to be just about impossible. They also have a copy of Church's "Short History of Pittsburgh". I wouldn't recommend that book to anyone except for it's several page commentary on the railroad riots of 1877. Church quotes a newspaper editorial which I found somewhat spine-chilling. "So what if the Federal government sends in the regular army? A mere 15,000 troops could not hope to prevail against the united might of the Workers of the nation." A paraphrase, but not a distortion. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:46:02 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] URL for Stapleton Library X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 02cc3db0066640adc650c31e582a3c77 The IUP library's catalog is available at: http://voyager.lib.iup.edu:8001/ Forgot to put that in the earlier post. Sorry. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:47:14 -0500 From: Richard Wallis Subject: Re: [PRR] S. H. Church X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2c106a36941d04eac5ad3fa2a3612758 robert netzlof wrote: > They also have a copy of Church's "Short History of > Pittsburgh". I wouldn't recommend that book to anyone > except for it's several page commentary on the > railroad riots of 1877. Church quotes a newspaper > editorial which I found somewhat spine-chilling. > > "So what if the Federal government sends in the > regular army? A mere 15,000 troops could not hope to > prevail against the united might of the Workers of the > nation." A paraphrase, but not a distortion. > Hey, Dr. Church was a fascinating guy. He started out as a telegrapher on the PRR and worked his way up to Corporate secretary of Lines West. Along the way he became a friend of the Carnegie family--including (presumably) Andrew himself, also a former PRR telegrapher--and wound up as president of the Carnegie Institute in Pittsburgh. But his most memorable moment came in 1940 when he fronted for group of concerned citizens who actually offered a $1 million bounty for the capture and of Adolf Hitler and his delivery, unharmed to the League of Nations. As for the use of his Lines West corporate history, try Inter-library Loan. You can usually secure at least the first twelve that way. The last three volumes are not as essential, but could be had the hard way--by visiting a library like the Stapleton. Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] S.H. Church Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:38:18 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 52e8c6f2b519edb83d75379a078b8b83 For east coast people all 15 volumes are in the Hagley Library, Greenville (Wilmington) DE. If you go they will bring out all 15 volumes for you to review at one time, note there are two volumes XIII, and make sure they bring out the last volume because it is bound in a different color (black) from all the others (green) and the reference librarian may overlook it in the stacks. Once you get used to how Church organized the books they are fairly easy to go through. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:08:13 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Acquiring copy of Descriptive List of X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 462b2cabbe8a9ff481b9acea521d3bff In a message dated 10/23/99 8:44:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: << Hello list, Does anyone know how I can acquire a copy of Owen Davies' Descriptive List of Locomotives and Tenders? I tried to borrow a copy through interlibrary loan, but I was told that the two libraries that had it would not release it; it was in their special collections. I would really like to have more information on PRR's older steam classes; the MP109K lacks information on the extinct (by 1952) K2s, K2sa, K3s, E3sd, and E5s. Do any of you have suggestions? Thanks in advance! Doug >> Doug, My suggestion is on the expensive side. So far, we've found a Davies copy of the 109J and an original 109I in the Jack Fravert collection. We'd prefer to auction them off as one item. If this is of interest to you, I can see that they appear in our List 6B of books and railroad publications, issued in mid-November for closing in mid-December. Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241-1625 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:08:20 EDT Subject: [PRR] L&N cars painted PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2d0612cc271306946705f58e1e93fdfc In a message dated 10/20/99 8:30:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Stuthayer@aol.com writes: << The L&N pool cars were run on the Southwind, which ran between Chicago and Florida. The other pool partner on this service with the PRR and L&N was the ACL. The L&N basically provided cars to the train, and power South of Lousiville to the connecting point with the ACL (don't remember where this was) during the steam era. During the diesel era, the L&N provided protection power for the train. This due to the fact that the PRR and ACL power was running all the way through. Stuart Thayer >> Stu, I'm confused about the L&N contribution to the South Wind. My impression is that the Pennsy and the ACL contributed a trainset (the PRR set in full Tuscan, the ACL set with purple letterboards). In 1941, the L&N streamlined #295 with Tuscan accents to pull the South Wind on the L&N Louisville-Nashville-Chattanooga-Atlanta?, but by the 60s the normal power was PRR E7/E8 to Louisville, then ACL E's on south. I always thought the PRR-painted L&N cars were for New York-Louisville and New York-Nashville service, as advertised in both PRR and L&N passenger timetables. As The Official Pullman-Standard Library Vol. 4 Pennsylvania Railroad states about Lot 6792, plan 4140 10 Roomette, 6 Bedroom Sleeping Cars, "This group of sleeping cars was delivered between November of 1948 and April of 1949" ... "Identical equipment was included in this order for the N&W, RF&P, and the L&N". Shown are photos of PRR (Sangamon Rapids), N&W (McDowell County) and RF&P (King William) cars, but not L&N. Going to the PRRT&HS publication Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering by Blardone and Tilp, I quote from page 123 an item titled " The Pennsylvania's Influence on Other Railroads": "The Louisville and Nashville, Norfolk and Western, and Richmond, Fredericksburg and Potomac were all financially involved with The Pennsylvania Railroad. As a result, in the postwar period a number of new lightweight Pullman-operated 10-6 sleeping cars were delivered in Tuscan red to those roads." "L&N cars BARREN RIVER, GREEN RIVER, and KENTUCKY RIVER arrived in the latter half of 1949 and matched the Pennsy's Tuscan red RAPIDS-series sleepers in color and configuration. They also shared car lines with them on hte routes fromNew York to L&N points. Color pictures of any of the three RIVER cars in Tuscan are particularly rare." Here's hoping the new book on L&N streamliners sheds some more light on these questions; I haven't seen a copy yet. BTW, for those who've been asking, the number plate off streamlined 4-6-2 L&N #295 is in the current auction of Jack Fravert railroadiana. Rick Tipton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:26:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Acquiring copy of Descriptive List of From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 14631794ec0b9d10e969f18ede2ed56e On 10/26/99 2:08 PM, RickTipton@aol.com (RickTipton@aol.com) wrote: > In a message dated 10/23/99 8:44:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: > > << Hello list, > > Does anyone know how I can acquire a copy of Owen Davies' Descriptive > List of Locomotives and Tenders? I tried to borrow a copy through > interlibrary loan, but I was told that the two libraries that had it > would not release it; it was in their special collections. > > I would really like to have more information on PRR's older steam > classes; the MP109K lacks information on the extinct (by 1952) K2s, > K2sa, K3s, E3sd, and E5s. > > Do any of you have suggestions? > > Thanks in advance! > > Doug >>> > Doug, > My suggestion is on the expensive side. So far, we've found a Davies copy of > the 109J and an original 109I in the Jack Fravert collection. We'd prefer to > auction them off as one item. If Adobe Acrobat (electronic format) is acceptable, Form 109K is available for download from my "Keystone Crossings" site... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/motiveops/ --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: [PRR] "The Visiting Dignitaries" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:42:55 -0400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2caa6db6d6c4c01a706b53b3914e9101 See "The Visiting Dignitaries" Not people... DIESELS... on our website... Then visit US... and watch over 150 trains every 24 hours on two mainlines... CSX... and ex-Conrail Norfolk Southern. See our ad in the November 1999 edition of "Railpace" Or "snail mail" for information. The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP 62 Beaver Street Fallston, PA 15066 (724) 843-7023 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!!